Messages in vintageHO group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: vintageHO Message: 20726 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 20727 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Intro and Continued Seasons Greetings
Group: vintageHO Message: 20728 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Still here
Group: vintageHO Message: 20729 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: rwrite some info
Group: vintageHO Message: 20730 From: Richard Carbo Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: rwrite some info
Group: vintageHO Message: 20731 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Still here
Group: vintageHO Message: 20732 From: John Hagen Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] write some info
Group: vintageHO Message: 20733 From: cwrailman Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides now completed
Group: vintageHO Message: 20734 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: odd car
Group: vintageHO Message: 20735 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Some Paul Moore
Group: vintageHO Message: 20736 From: Wally Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: A 4 wheel switch engine Amercian Flyer?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20737 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Knapp passenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 20738 From: John Hagen Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: A 4 wheel switch engine Amercian Flyer?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20739 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Knapp passenger [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO Message: 20740 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20741 From: Sean Naylor Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 20742 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO Message: 20743 From: Glenn Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 20744 From: raul@wi.rr.com Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: part needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 20745 From: raul@wi.rr.com Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 20746 From: John Webster Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides now completed
Group: vintageHO Message: 20747 From: cwrailman Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides now completed
Group: vintageHO Message: 20748 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20749 From: John Hagen Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20750 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20751 From: jay matz Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20752 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20753 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: The Zephyr
Group: vintageHO Message: 20754 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 20755 From: tom leen Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: The Zephyr
Group: vintageHO Message: 20756 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20757 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20758 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20759 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20760 From: Alan Kilby Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20761 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20763 From: Richard Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20764 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20765 From: Richard Carbo Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20766 From: Bill Pittman Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: odd car
Group: vintageHO Message: 20767 From: 23weldon Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20768 From: john.allyn@comcast.net Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20769 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20770 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20771 From: nvrr49@yahoo.com Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20772 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20773 From: Sean Naylor Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Mystery GG1
Group: vintageHO Message: 20774 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20775 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20776 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: odd car
Group: vintageHO Message: 20777 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20778 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20779 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Group: vintageHO Message: 20780 From: jerrygart5 Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20781 From: hooligan Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20782 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20783 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20784 From: Sean Naylor Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Mystery GG1
Group: vintageHO Message: 20785 From: Richard White Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20786 From: john.allyn@comcast.net Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20787 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20788 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20789 From: ckinzer@att.net Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 20790 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 20791 From: Howard R Garner Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 20792 From: Richard White Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20793 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: F-units
Group: vintageHO Message: 20794 From: Carl Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Group: vintageHO Message: 20795 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: F-units [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO Message: 20796 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/9/2013
Subject: Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 20797 From: Jack Kelley Date: 1/9/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO Message: 20798 From: vancampbell64 Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Athearn dual-drive parts.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20799 From: vancampbell64 Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 20800 From: lewis.ted16 Date: 1/20/2013
Subject: JC Silversides kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 20801 From: cwrailman Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: The Best Power Tool Deal in Town
Group: vintageHO Message: 20802 From: river_dweller_ohio Date: 1/23/2013
Subject: FW:Hello!
Group: vintageHO Message: 20803 From: cwrailman Date: 1/26/2013
Subject: Re: The Best Power Tool Deal in Town
Group: vintageHO Message: 20804 From: cwrailman Date: 1/28/2013
Subject: Vintage Brass Gem Birdey Locomotive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20805 From: RalphB Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20806 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Varney Winning Bid
Group: vintageHO Message: 20807 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20808 From: Howard R Garner Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: KaDee #4
Group: vintageHO Message: 20809 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Winning Bid [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 20810 From: erieberk Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Winning Bid [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 20811 From: shawmut_fan Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20812 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Winning Bid
Group: vintageHO Message: 20813 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20814 From: Lon Walker Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: hey
Group: vintageHO Message: 20815 From: shawmut_fan Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20816 From: Howard R Garner Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: KaDee #4
Group: vintageHO Message: 20817 From: corlissbs Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20818 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: New - Old find
Group: vintageHO Message: 20819 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20820 From: Matt Martin Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: FS: Freight Cars (Atlas, Walthers, Red Caboose)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20821 From: Steven D Johnson Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20822 From: luvprr2003 Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20823 From: CinderCrusher Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20824 From: RalphB Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20825 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Instructions needed for MRC SOUND MASTER 210 SOUND MACHINE
Group: vintageHO Message: 20826 From: cwrailman Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20827 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: An interview and easy tutorial
Group: vintageHO Message: 20828 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20829 From: corlissbs Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20830 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20831 From: corlissbs Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20832 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20833 From: cwrailman Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20834 From: Mr. Common Sense Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20835 From: dwaite2000 Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to US
Group: vintageHO Message: 20836 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20837 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Instructions needed for MRC SOUND MASTER 210 SOUND MACHINE [1 At
Group: vintageHO Message: 20838 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20839 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20840 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20841 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to US
Group: vintageHO Message: 20842 From: reed.estabrook Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20843 From: johnhutnick Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Walthers MU
Group: vintageHO Message: 20844 From: cwrailman Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Running trains in Dual DC/DCC mode
Group: vintageHO Message: 20845 From: river_dweller_ohio Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20846 From: Carl Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Group: vintageHO Message: 20847 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: Latest Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 20848 From: cwrailman Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: Re: Latest Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 20849 From: rxensen Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Group: vintageHO Message: 20850 From: erieberk Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Group: vintageHO Message: 20851 From: erieberk Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Group: vintageHO Message: 20852 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Group: vintageHO Message: 20853 From: Carl Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Group: vintageHO Message: 20854 From: luvprr2003 Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Walthers New Haven Coach
Group: vintageHO Message: 20855 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20856 From: Brad Smith Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20857 From: lewis.ted16 Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Trolley car
Group: vintageHO Message: 20858 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20859 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20860 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Trolley car
Group: vintageHO Message: 20861 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20862 From: ablecynic Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20863 From: gbwdude Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20864 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20865 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20866 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20867 From: John Hagen Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20868 From: corlissbs Date: 2/11/2013
Subject: Re: Trolley car
Group: vintageHO Message: 20869 From: CinderCrusher Date: 2/11/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Group: vintageHO Message: 20870 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Window Plastic for old cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 20871 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 20872 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 20873 From: ho_in_hancock Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 20874 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: 02/14/13 - C&O 3 INCH SCALE RIDE-IN CABOOSE & DON STATON
Group: vintageHO Message: 20875 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 20876 From: ho_in_hancock Date: 2/15/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 20877 From: al45390 Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Westinghouse 3E control valve & Franklin T-35 generator
Group: vintageHO Message: 20878 From: Model RailRoad Warehouse Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: Westinghouse 3E control valve & Franklin T-35 generator
Group: vintageHO Message: 20879 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: Westinghouse 3E control valve & Franklin T-35 generator
Group: vintageHO Message: 20880 From: cwrailman Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR
Group: vintageHO Message: 20881 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR
Group: vintageHO Message: 20882 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Winans Camel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20883 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Re: Winans Camel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20884 From: Richard Dipping Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Re: Winans Camel
Group: vintageHO Message: 20885 From: gnryfan Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Group: vintageHO Message: 20886 From: Riverboy Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Group: vintageHO Message: 20887 From: gnryfan Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Group: vintageHO Message: 20888 From: Riverboy Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Group: vintageHO Message: 20889 From: luvprr2003 Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Group: vintageHO Message: 20890 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Group: vintageHO Message: 20891 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Winan's 4-6-0 Camelback
Group: vintageHO Message: 20892 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/26/2013
Subject: Re: Winan's 4-6-0 Camelback
Group: vintageHO Message: 20893 From: cwrailman Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: Re: Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR REVISED New and Improved
Group: vintageHO Message: 20894 From: frank Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: 75 years of Model Railroader/plug
Group: vintageHO Message: 20895 From: John Hagen Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: Re: 75 years of Model Railroader/plug
Group: vintageHO Message: 20896 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: Re: 75 years of Model Railroader/plug
Group: vintageHO Message: 20897 From: Bill Nielsen Date: 2/28/2013
Subject: Anyone remember Russell Mobi-Models Drawbridge kits?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20898 From: Jim Heckard Date: 3/1/2013
Subject: pre war Varney Electric
Group: vintageHO Message: 20899 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/1/2013
Subject: Fwd: [narrowmilitaryrail] 1c. Re: Scale Link 1:32 Pechot-Bourdon Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 20900 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Athearn Train Set 4322
Group: vintageHO Message: 20901 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: HOSeeker Site issues?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20902 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker Site issues?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20903 From: James Bartelt Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: 18th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI 3-10-2013
Group: vintageHO Message: 20904 From: johnhutnick Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Pechot-Bourdon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20905 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/3/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker Site issues?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20906 From: cwrailman Date: 3/5/2013
Subject: Looking for info on a children’s book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20907 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/5/2013
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on a children’s book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20908 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/5/2013
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on a children’s book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20909 From: cwrailman Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children's book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20910 From: Richard Dipping Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children's book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20911 From: wdavis5069 Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children’s book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20912 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20913 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20914 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20915 From: Jim Waterman Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children’s book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20916 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Looking for info on a children’s book
Group: vintageHO Message: 20917 From: bitlerisvj Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20918 From: Gary Mittner Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20919 From: dwaite2000 Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20920 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20921 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20922 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20923 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20924 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20925 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20926 From: Richard Carbo Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20927 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20928 From: Glenn Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20929 From: James Bartelt Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: 18th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI 3-10-2013
Group: vintageHO Message: 20930 From: Nelson Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20931 From: Nelson Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20932 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Latest project
Group: vintageHO Message: 20933 From: Gary Mittner Date: 3/11/2013
Subject: The John Wilkes
Group: vintageHO Message: 20934 From: apo09324 Date: 3/11/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20935 From: Nelson Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: The John Wilkes
Group: vintageHO Message: 20936 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20937 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20938 From: Charles Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20939 From: shawmut_fan Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20940 From: cwrailman Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20941 From: Jim Heckard Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Still Here
Group: vintageHO Message: 20942 From: John Hagen Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here
Group: vintageHO Message: 20943 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20944 From: Richard Carbo Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here
Group: vintageHO Message: 20945 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: For my chocolate loving friends
Group: vintageHO Message: 20947 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: For my chocolate loving friends
Group: vintageHO Message: 20948 From: Dale Smith Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: [SFMuniHistory] (unknown)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20949 From: Richard Carbo Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: For my chocolate loving friends
Group: vintageHO Message: 20950 From: Jim Ruef Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: For my chocolate loving friends
Group: vintageHO Message: 20951 From: frank Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20952 From: Charles Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20953 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20954 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20955 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20956 From: ablecynic Date: 3/16/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20957 From: trainliker Date: 3/16/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20958 From: ablecynic Date: 3/16/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20959 From: trainliker Date: 3/16/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20960 From: cwrailman Date: 3/18/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20961 From: ablecynic Date: 3/19/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20962 From: cwrailman Date: 3/19/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20963 From: ablecynic Date: 3/19/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20964 From: cwrailman Date: 3/19/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20965 From: Mr Larry L. Doub Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20966 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20967 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20968 From: don lemas Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20969 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20970 From: cwrailman Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
Group: vintageHO Message: 20971 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20972 From: Glenn Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20973 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20974 From: lewis.ted16 Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20975 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20976 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20977 From: larry Smith Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 20978 From: Mike Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 20979 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20980 From: Nelson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20981 From: Nelson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20982 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20983 From: cwrailman Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Reworking a Vintage 2-8-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20984 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20985 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20986 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20987 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20988 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
Group: vintageHO Message: 20989 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20990 From: dave sandulli Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Gerber Billboard reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20991 From: corlissbs Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 20992 From: William Anderson Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20993 From: corlissbs Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20994 From: tom bell Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20995 From: corlissbs Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20996 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20997 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20998 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20999 From: dave sandulli Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21000 From: rcjge Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21001 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Fw: William Morrison
Group: vintageHO Message: 21002 From: dave sandulli Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21003 From: Brad Smith Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21004 From: sottguy Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 21005 From: Glenn Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21006 From: Jim Waterman Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fw: William Morrison
Group: vintageHO Message: 21007 From: Richard Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 21008 From: cwrailman Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Mantua Pacific 4-6-2 Kit for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21009 From: cwrailman Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific 4-6-2 Kit has been SOLD
Group: vintageHO Message: 21010 From: g3mag63 Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: G5 steam chest
Group: vintageHO Message: 21011 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21012 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21013 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21014 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21015 From: sottguy Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 21016 From: topstokes Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 help
Group: vintageHO Message: 21017 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 help
Group: vintageHO Message: 21018 From: prandn Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Does Anyone Know........
Group: vintageHO Message: 21019 From: stephenlengal Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: Does Anyone Know........
Group: vintageHO Message: 21020 From: sswcharlie Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21021 From: sswcharlie Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: HOSeeker - Baby Turbine HO - Peterson? Athearn ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21022 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21023 From: corlissbs Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21024 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21025 From: Richard Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 21026 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21027 From: tom bell Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21028 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21029 From: corlissbs Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
Group: vintageHO Message: 21030 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Current RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 21031 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21032 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21033 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21034 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1
Group: vintageHO Message: 21035 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21036 From: Richard Dipping Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21037 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1
Group: vintageHO Message: 21038 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21039 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21040 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21041 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21042 From: johnhutnick Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21043 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21044 From: ablecynic Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21045 From: johnhutnick Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21046 From: leetrains Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21047 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21048 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21049 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21050 From: ablecynic Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21051 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21052 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21053 From: cwrailman Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21054 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21055 From: cwrailman Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21056 From: John Hutnick Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21057 From: William Higgins Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21058 From: Askerberg Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21059 From: cwrailman Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21060 From: louis niederlander Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21061 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21062 From: cwrailman Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21063 From: nico Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21064 From: corlissbs Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21065 From: Joe Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21066 From: Wally Weart Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
Group: vintageHO Message: 21067 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21068 From: cwrailman Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21069 From: corlissbs Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21070 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21071 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Early 1937 Pre-Boiler Production Mantua 4-6-2 / 4-6-4 Chassis
Group: vintageHO Message: 21072 From: Jim Heckard Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Still Hanging in and watching
Group: vintageHO Message: 21073 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Re: Still Hanging in and watching [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21074 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Still Hanging in and watching [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21075 From: joeloh3 Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: New to Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21076 From: luvprr2003 Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21078 From: bitlerisvj Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21079 From: shawmut_fan Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21080 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21081 From: shawmut_fan Date: 4/15/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21082 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21083 From: cwrailman Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Chicago Great Western 4-6-0 by Continental
Group: vintageHO Message: 21084 From: Joel Holmes Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21085 From: gbwdude Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21086 From: Joel Holmes Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: New to Group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21087 From: cwrailman Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21088 From: Joel Holmes Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21089 From: rcjge Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21090 From: nico Date: 4/16/2013
Subject: Re: Early 1937 Pre-Boiler Production Mantua 4-6-2 / 4-6-4 Chassis
Group: vintageHO Message: 21091 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21092 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21093 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21094 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21095 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21096 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21097 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21098 From: cwrailman Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Revival of a CGW 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21099 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: A vintage Paul Moore
Group: vintageHO Message: 21100 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21101 From: Howard C. Taylor Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21102 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
Subject: Re: Revival of a CGW 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21103 From: cwrailman Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: Revival of a CGW 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21104 From: gbwdude Date: 4/18/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
Group: vintageHO Message: 21105 From: Jim Heckard Date: 4/19/2013
Subject: Roundhouse 0-6-0's
Group: vintageHO Message: 21106 From: gary Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21107 From: Jim Ruef Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21108 From: vancampbell64 Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21109 From: gary pardue Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21110 From: gary pardue Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21111 From: bitlerisvj Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21112 From: erieberk Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21113 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21114 From: Nelson Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21115 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21116 From: bobbinbill229 Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
Group: vintageHO Message: 21117 From: Charles Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21118 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
Group: vintageHO Message: 21119 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
Group: vintageHO Message: 21120 From: Alan Kilby Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
Group: vintageHO Message: 21121 From: Bill Scott Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
Group: vintageHO Message: 21122 From: Riverboy Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21123 From: Nelson Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21124 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21125 From: gary pardue Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21126 From: Charles Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21127 From: vancampbell64 Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21128 From: Nelson Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
Group: vintageHO Message: 21129 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/25/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 21130 From: Carl Neste Date: 4/25/2013
Subject: Looking for kit instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 21131 From: luvprr2003 Date: 4/25/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for kit instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 21132 From: Carl Neste Date: 4/25/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for kit instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 21133 From: Alan Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: DEVORE COUPLERS?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21134 From: rhbale8 Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: Re: DEVORE COUPLERS?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21135 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Hybrid DL-109's
Group: vintageHO Message: 21136 From: Jim Heckard Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: want to buy
Group: vintageHO Message: 21137 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Mantua Talgo Train streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21138 From: Jim Heckard Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Forget my want
Group: vintageHO Message: 21139 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Forget My Want
Group: vintageHO Message: 21140 From: Jim Heckard Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: good laugh
Group: vintageHO Message: 21141 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: good laugh
Group: vintageHO Message: 21142 From: Richard Carbo Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: good laugh
Group: vintageHO Message: 21143 From: jbark76 Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21144 From: Sean Naylor Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21145 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21146 From: Geo Stahlberg Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21147 From: John Hagen Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21148 From: jbark76 Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21149 From: Dennis Kunkel Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21150 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21151 From: jbark76 Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21152 From: Sean Naylor Date: 5/7/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21153 From: johnhutnick Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21154 From: Bill Scott Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21155 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21156 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21157 From: Sean Naylor Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 21158 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21159 From: louis niederlander Date: 5/10/2013
Subject: Re: cardboard box
Group: vintageHO Message: 21160 From: John Hagen Date: 5/10/2013
Subject: Re: cardboard box
Group: vintageHO Message: 21161 From: 23weldon Date: 5/10/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21162 From: cwrailman Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21163 From: John H Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21164 From: johnhutnick Date: 5/19/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21165 From: cwrailman Date: 5/20/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21166 From: rcjge Date: 5/20/2013
Subject: Bread on the water...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21167 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz paint
Group: vintageHO Message: 21168 From: Brad Smith Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
Group: vintageHO Message: 21169 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
Group: vintageHO Message: 21170 From: John Hagen Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
Group: vintageHO Message: 21171 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21172 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
Group: vintageHO Message: 21173 From: Rick Jones Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21174 From: JP Barger Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: [STMFC] Unidentified HO reefer model
Group: vintageHO Message: 21175 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unidentified HO reefer model
Group: vintageHO Message: 21176 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21177 From: John Hutnick Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21178 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21179 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21180 From: larry Smith Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21181 From: louis niederlander Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21182 From: Rick Jones Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21183 From: Brad Smith Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21184 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Oddball coal modeling tip
Group: vintageHO Message: 21185 From: Van B. Campbell Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Athearn Hi-F Gear Reduction Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 21186 From: roger_aultman Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Hi-F Gear Reduction Drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 21187 From: prandn Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: <<< JAM Breakfast 20130702 - Come Join Us >>>
Group: vintageHO Message: 21188 From: David Date: 6/2/2013
Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21189 From: Alan Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: kemtron log cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21190 From: ablecynic Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: kemtron log cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21191 From: Rick Jones Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Photos: Golden Age Of Train Travel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21192 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen be
Group: vintageHO Message: 21193 From: shawmut_fan Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21194 From: trainliker Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21195 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21196 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21197 From: bcpryor Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21198 From: shawmut_fan Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21199 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21200 From: Chrisb_acw_rr Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21201 From: tom leen Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21202 From: Richard Carbo Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21203 From: Larry Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21204 From: Fred Krause Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21205 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Athearn Train Set Boxes
Group: vintageHO Message: 21206 From: Jim Waterman Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21207 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21208 From: Bill Pittman Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Bill Pittman
Group: vintageHO Message: 21209 From: 23weldon Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21210 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21211 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21212 From: John Hagen Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21213 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
Group: vintageHO Message: 21215 From: Van B. Campbell Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21216 From: cwrailman Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21217 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21218 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21219 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21220 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21221 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21222 From: bill Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: New to the group
Group: vintageHO Message: 21223 From: bill Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 help
Group: vintageHO Message: 21224 From: oklacnw Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21225 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21226 From: Dale F. Smith Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21227 From: Rick Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21228 From: Rick Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21229 From: Dale Smith Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21230 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21231 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21232 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21233 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21234 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21235 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21236 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21237 From: Rick Date: 6/25/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21238 From: cwrailman Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21239 From: cwrailman Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21240 From: Glen Wasson Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21241 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21242 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21243 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21244 From: Dale Smith Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21245 From: Glen Wasson Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: Memories!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21246 From: Richard Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21247 From: bcpryor Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21248 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21249 From: David Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
Group: vintageHO Message: 21250 From: Chrisb_acw_rr Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21251 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Vintage Athearn C&O F7-B Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 21252 From: Nelson Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21253 From: bill Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Using Tru scale switches with their remote and lindsay track spiker
Group: vintageHO Message: 21254 From: cwrailman Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
Group: vintageHO Message: 21255 From: trainliker Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
Group: vintageHO Message: 21256 From: roger_aultman Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
Group: vintageHO Message: 21257 From: Glen Wasson Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
Group: vintageHO Message: 21258 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
Group: vintageHO Message: 21259 From: roger_aultman Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
Group: vintageHO Message: 21260 From: Dale Smith Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
Group: vintageHO Message: 21261 From: Willard Seehorn Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
Group: vintageHO Message: 21262 From: tom leen Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
Group: vintageHO Message: 21263 From: cwrailman Date: 7/10/2013
Subject: Mantua 8 Balls for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21264 From: cwrailman Date: 7/11/2013
Subject: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21265 From: Richard Dipping Date: 7/11/2013
Subject: Re: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21266 From: cwrailman Date: 7/11/2013
Subject: Re: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21267 From: cwrailman Date: 7/11/2013
Subject: Re: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation
Group: vintageHO Message: 21268 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 7/15/2013
Subject: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21269 From: Mike Bauers Date: 7/15/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21270 From: Rick Steele Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21271 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21272 From: John H Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21273 From: Dale Smith Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21274 From: Jim Waterman Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21275 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21276 From: shawmut_fan Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
Group: vintageHO Message: 21277 From: cwrailman Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball plus 1947 Mantua HO Handbook for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21278 From: Willard Seehorn Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
Group: vintageHO Message: 21279 From: cwrailman Date: 7/18/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball plus 1947 Mantua HO Handbook for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21280 From: cwrailman Date: 7/18/2013
Subject: American Flyer Hudson available
Group: vintageHO Message: 21281 From: cwrailman Date: 7/18/2013
Subject: Reworking a Vintage 1950's era Brass 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21282 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 7/18/2013
Subject: Re: Reworking a Vintage 1950's era Brass 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21283 From: nico Date: 7/21/2013
Subject: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21284 From: erieberk Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21285 From: Richard Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: More on Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO Message: 21286 From: Richard Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: More on Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO Message: 21287 From: cwrailman Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: More on Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO Message: 21288 From: nico Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21289 From: Ed Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21290 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21291 From: Ed Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21292 From: tom bell Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21293 From: Mike Bauers Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21294 From: corlissbs Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21295 From: 23weldon Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21296 From: bcpryor Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21297 From: Nelson Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21298 From: reed.estabrook Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 21299 From: erieberk Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21300 From: nico Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21301 From: nico Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
Group: vintageHO Message: 21303 From: Brent Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: English Man needs help please
Group: vintageHO Message: 21304 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: English Man needs help please
Group: vintageHO Message: 21305 From: Brent Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: English Man needs help please
Group: vintageHO Message: 21306 From: Brent Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21307 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21308 From: Larry Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21309 From: Brent Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21310 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse New England Models
Group: vintageHO Message: 21311 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse Bev-Bel
Group: vintageHO Message: 21312 From: cwrailman Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Need Main side rod for Rivarossi / Pocher 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 21313 From: oklacnw Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Red Ball
Group: vintageHO Message: 21314 From: erieberk Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21315 From: erieberk Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21316 From: Rick Steele Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: Red Ball
Group: vintageHO Message: 21317 From: Chris B Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: vintage HO brass boxcar kit CNJ by Custom Photo/Graphics of NY & Oh
Group: vintageHO Message: 21318 From: Larry Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21319 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Mantua Parts Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 21320 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21321 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Parts Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 21322 From: erieberk Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: vintage HO brass boxcar kit CNJ by Custom Photo/Graphics of NY
Group: vintageHO Message: 21323 From: erieberk Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21324 From: Geo Stahlberg Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: Red Ball
Group: vintageHO Message: 21325 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Part Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 21326 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua Part Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 21327 From: vancampbell64 Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: 1960's Vintage Athearn "WMD" Sets
Group: vintageHO Message: 21328 From: gary Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Revell SW7 1958
Group: vintageHO Message: 21329 From: rcjge Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: A whack of stuff for sale....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21330 From: Brad Smith Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21331 From: vancampbell64 Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21332 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21333 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21335 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21336 From: Brad Smith Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21337 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21338 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21339 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
Group: vintageHO Message: 21340 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21341 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21342 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21343 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21344 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
Group: vintageHO Message: 21345 From: corlissbs Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21346 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21347 From: corlissbs Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21348 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21349 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
Group: vintageHO Message: 21350 From: Gary Woodard Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Need Identification
Group: vintageHO Message: 21351 From: Gary Woodard Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Another Item of Interest
Group: vintageHO Message: 21352 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
Group: vintageHO Message: 21353 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21354 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21355 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21356 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21357 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21358 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21359 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21360 From: rick.flaherty Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: White sidewalls
Group: vintageHO Message: 21361 From: Richard Dipping Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21362 From: shawmut_fan Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21363 From: rcjge Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
Group: vintageHO Message: 21364 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Walthers early postal car # 6630 for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21365 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Walthers postal cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21366 From: rick.flaherty Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Re: White sidewalls
Group: vintageHO Message: 21367 From: nico Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
Group: vintageHO Message: 21368 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
Group: vintageHO Message: 21369 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Tyco passengers cars?s
Group: vintageHO Message: 21370 From: william witte Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?s
Group: vintageHO Message: 21371 From: william witte Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?s
Group: vintageHO Message: 21372 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?s
Group: vintageHO Message: 21373 From: Mike Christian Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Tyco Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21374 From: Carl Neste Date: 8/30/2013
Subject:
Group: vintageHO Message: 21375 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21376 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Bowser?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21377 From: Bill Scott Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21378 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21379 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Bowser?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21380 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21381 From: Bill Scott Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21382 From: Mike Christian Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21383 From: Mike Christian Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21384 From: william witte Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21385 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21386 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21387 From: Mike Christian Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21388 From: rcjge Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21389 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21390 From: rcjge Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21391 From: jbark76 Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21392 From: rcjge Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21393 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21394 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21395 From: rcjge Date: 9/2/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21396 From: shooksbronze Date: 9/2/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21397 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 9/2/2013
Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21398 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 9/2/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21399 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/2/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21400 From: Dale F. Smith Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21401 From: Van B. Campbell Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Wanted: Tyco New Haven C430
Group: vintageHO Message: 21402 From: E Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21403 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21404 From: Richard Dipping Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21405 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21406 From: John Barlow Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
Group: vintageHO Message: 21407 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-El...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21408 From: E Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21409 From: E Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21410 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21411 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21412 From: Mike Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21413 From: jay matz Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21414 From: John Webster Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
Group: vintageHO Message: 21415 From: Jim Waterman Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
Group: vintageHO Message: 21416 From: anypaddler Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.
Group: vintageHO Message: 21417 From: nvrr49@yahoo.com Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Roundhouse 2-4-4-0 kitbash
Group: vintageHO Message: 21418 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 2-4-4-0 kitbash
Group: vintageHO Message: 21419 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Old Airfix
Group: vintageHO Message: 21420 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Old Airfix tanker
Group: vintageHO Message: 21421 From: trainliker Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.
Group: vintageHO Message: 21422 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Old Airfix tanker
Group: vintageHO Message: 21423 From: Dave Audley Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Old Airfix tanker
Group: vintageHO Message: 21424 From: anypaddler Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.
Group: vintageHO Message: 21425 From: John Barlow Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
Group: vintageHO Message: 21426 From: trainliker Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.
Group: vintageHO Message: 21427 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
Group: vintageHO Message: 21428 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Old Airfix tanker
Group: vintageHO Message: 21429 From: peytonharvey82 Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: FS: 8 - AHM Steam Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21430 From: Dave Audley Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: Old Airfix tanker
Group: vintageHO Message: 21431 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 9/14/2013
Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21432 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/14/2013
Subject: Chroming Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21433 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/14/2013
Subject: Re: Chroming Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21434 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/14/2013
Subject: Re: Chroming Re: Tyco passengers cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21435 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/14/2013
Subject: Kato GP40
Group: vintageHO Message: 21436 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 9/15/2013
Subject: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21437 From: Dave Audley Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21438 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21439 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21440 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21441 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: OK Streamliner Vestibule Doors (formerlyB&O Royel Blue coach?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 21442 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: Re: OK Streamliner Vestibule Doors (formerlyB&O Royel Blue coach?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 21443 From: Dale Smith Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21444 From: maryinvt2 Date: 9/19/2013
Subject: If you are fed up with the new look, try this
Group: vintageHO Message: 21445 From: Richard Date: 9/19/2013
Subject: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21446 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/20/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21447 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 9/20/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21448 From: Nelson Date: 9/20/2013
Subject: Re: If you are fed up with the new look, try this Firefox plugin
Group: vintageHO Message: 21449 From: Robert Graves Date: 9/20/2013
Subject: For Sale: Vintage Roundhouse HO Kits from the 1950s
Group: vintageHO Message: 21450 From: gbwdude Date: 9/21/2013
Subject: Bowser NYC Pacific boiler woes
Group: vintageHO Message: 21451 From: Richard L. Carbo Date: 9/21/2013
Subject: Varney and Gilbert HO For Sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21452 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/21/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser NYC Pacific boiler woes
Group: vintageHO Message: 21453 From: erieberk Date: 9/21/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21454 From: John Hagen Date: 9/21/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21455 From: erieberk Date: 9/21/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21456 From: prandn Date: 9/22/2013
Subject: FS: Precision Scale Co. Thomas Flyer Rail Car Kit HO-10900 Powered
Group: vintageHO Message: 21457 From: maryinvt2 Date: 9/22/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21458 From: rcjge Date: 9/22/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser NYC Pacific boiler woes
Group: vintageHO Message: 21459 From: prandn Date: 9/22/2013
Subject: FS: Misc TM Building Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 21460 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/23/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21461 From: rcjge Date: 9/24/2013
Subject: Pics added to 4 sale Gareth Folder
Group: vintageHO Message: 21462 From: rcjge Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: Pics added to 4 sale Gareth Folder
Group: vintageHO Message: 21463 From: Richard Date: 9/27/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 21464 From: prandn Date: 9/28/2013
Subject: Re: FS: Precision Scale Co. Thomas Flyer Rail Car Kit HO-10900 Powe
Group: vintageHO Message: 21465 From: rxensen Date: 9/28/2013
Subject: Main Line Modeler for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21466 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: So when did this site become a Flea Market?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21467 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: So when did this site become a Flea Market?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21468 From: redvdub1 Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21469 From: Nelson Date: 10/1/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21470 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/1/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21471 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 10/1/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21472 From: John Hagen Date: 10/1/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21473 From: Jim Waterman Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21474 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21475 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21476 From: Nelson Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
Group: vintageHO Message: 21477 From: rick.flaherty Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21478 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21479 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21480 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21481 From: rick.flaherty Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21482 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21483 From: Dale F. Smith Date: 10/4/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21484 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/5/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21485 From: Rick Date: 10/5/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21486 From: peytonharvey82 Date: 10/5/2013
Subject: 1950's Rock Lake Kit #1 Operating Rotary Dumper, Trestle and Con
Group: vintageHO Message: 21487 From: Rick Date: 10/6/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21488 From: rick.flaherty Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21489 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21490 From: Rick Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21491 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21492 From: Rick Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
Group: vintageHO Message: 21493 From: John H Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Unknow drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 21494 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Re: Unknow drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 21495 From: ablecynic Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Re: Unknow drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 21496 From: Germain Golembowski Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Re: Unknow drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 21497 From: mwbauers Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: O-rings
Group: vintageHO Message: 21498 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Re: O-rings
Group: vintageHO Message: 21499 From: Sherrie Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21500 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21501 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21502 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21503 From: John Hagen Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Kits available
Group: vintageHO Message: 21504 From: Sean Naylor Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: A very rare find!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21505 From: ablecynic Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Re: A very rare find!
Group: vintageHO Message: 21506 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21507 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21508 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21509 From: John Hagen Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21510 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21511 From: Dave Audley Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21512 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21513 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Train shows
Group: vintageHO Message: 21514 From: shawmut_fan Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21515 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21516 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21517 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21518 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21519 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21520 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21521 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21522 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21523 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21524 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21525 From: larry Smith Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21526 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Resin Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 21527 From: David Emery Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: 19th century 'makes good' at MER Convention
Group: vintageHO Message: 21528 From: albyrno Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: varney docksider with tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21529 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: varney docksider with tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21530 From: Brad Smith Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: varney docksider with tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21531 From: larry Smith Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21532 From: John Barlow Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21533 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21534 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/14/2013
Subject: Re: varney docksider with tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21535 From: Geo Stahlberg Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21536 From: Brad Smith Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21537 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21538 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21539 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21540 From: trainliker Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21541 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21542 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21543 From: John Hagen Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21544 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21545 From: shawmut_fan Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21546 From: Brad Smith Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21547 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21548 From: John Hagen Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21549 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21550 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
Group: vintageHO Message: 21551 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21552 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21553 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/17/2013
Subject: Fwd: Railroad thermite welding - YouTube
Group: vintageHO Message: 21554 From: Jim Heckard Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: large vintage collection for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21555 From: Mike Date: 10/19/2013
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Group: vintageHO Message: 21558 From: John Hagen Date: 10/19/2013
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Group: vintageHO Message: 21570 From: lvtrainmeet Date: 10/23/2013
Subject: Slot Car show coming...
Group: vintageHO Message: 21571 From: Morgan Smith Date: 10/23/2013
Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 21572 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/24/2013
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Subject: Tetsudo / International ALCO trucks
Group: vintageHO Message: 21575 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/27/2013
Subject: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 21576 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/27/2013
Subject: Re: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21577 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/27/2013
Subject: Re: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed
Group: vintageHO Message: 21578 From: Jim Waterman Date: 10/28/2013
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Subject: Ambroid Question
Group: vintageHO Message: 21580 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/28/2013
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Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: large vintage collection for sale
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Subject: Vintage train kits
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Subject: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive
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Subject: Re: Need Help [6 Attachments]- CARS
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Subject: Re: Need Help [6 Attachments]- CARS
Group: vintageHO Message: 21628 From: Jim Waterman Date: 11/16/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21629 From: John Hagen Date: 11/16/2013
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Group: vintageHO Message: 21637 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21638 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21639 From: seekingho Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21640 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21641 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21642 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21643 From: rhbale8 Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Ambroid/Northeastern
Group: vintageHO Message: 21644 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21645 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern
Group: vintageHO Message: 21646 From: Loren Martell Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: FS: FSM Un-assembled kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 21647 From: cwrailman Date: 11/18/2013
Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern
Group: vintageHO Message: 21648 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 11/18/2013
Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
Group: vintageHO Message: 21649 From: david_helber Date: 11/18/2013
Subject: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21650 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 11/19/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21651 From: david_helber Date: 11/19/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21652 From: jay matz Date: 11/19/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21653 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 11/19/2013
Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern
Group: vintageHO Message: 21654 From: cwrailman Date: 11/19/2013
Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern
Group: vintageHO Message: 21655 From: sswcharlie Date: 11/19/2013
Subject: MDC Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21656 From: david_helber Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21657 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 11/21/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21658 From: sswcharlie Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 21659 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/23/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 21660 From: John Hagen Date: 11/23/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 21661 From: jbark76 Date: 11/23/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21662 From: Bill Scott Date: 11/23/2013
Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
Group: vintageHO Message: 21663 From: greenbrier614 Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
Group: vintageHO Message: 21664 From: corlissbs Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
Group: vintageHO Message: 21665 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
Group: vintageHO Message: 21666 From: greenbrier614 Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
Group: vintageHO Message: 21667 From: mah644 Date: 11/25/2013
Subject: Re: MDC Roundhouse
Group: vintageHO Message: 21668 From: sswcharlie Date: 11/25/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 21669 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/25/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 21670 From: Charlie Date: 11/26/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 21671 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21672 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21673 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Passenger trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 21674 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21675 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21676 From: corlissbs Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21677 From: oljoe Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21678 From: Mike Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21679 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21680 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21681 From: corlissbs Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21682 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21683 From: corlissbs Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21684 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21685 From: Mike Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21686 From: Willard Seehorn Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21687 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21688 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
Group: vintageHO Message: 21689 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21690 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21691 From: oklacnw Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Lionel Husky
Group: vintageHO Message: 21692 From: mah644 Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21693 From: nvrr49@yahoo.com Date: 11/30/2013
Subject: FSM #155 Coal Dock
Group: vintageHO Message: 21694 From: Loren Martell Date: 11/30/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21695 From: cwrailman Date: 12/1/2013
Subject: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21696 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/1/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21697 From: cwrailman Date: 12/1/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21698 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/1/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21699 From: oklacnw Date: 12/1/2013
Subject: Re: Ernst Gears for Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21700 From: cwrailman Date: 12/1/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21701 From: Jim Waterman Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21702 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21703 From: david_helber Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21704 From: david_helber Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21705 From: Loren Martell Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 21706 From: jbark76 Date: 12/4/2013
Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
Group: vintageHO Message: 21707 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/10/2013
Subject: Gorre & Daphetid Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 21708 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/12/2013
Subject: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21709 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/15/2013
Subject: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21710 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21711 From: erieberk Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21712 From: erieberk Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21713 From: erieberk Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21714 From: Richard Kurz Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21715 From: Larry Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21716 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21717 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21718 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21719 From: John Hagen Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21720 From: John Hagen Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21721 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21722 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21723 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/16/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21724 From: oklacnw Date: 12/17/2013
Subject: Re: Sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21725 From: raymarinaccio Date: 12/17/2013
Subject: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21726 From: erieberk Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
Group: vintageHO Message: 21727 From: Dave Audley Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21728 From: erieberk Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21729 From: corlissbs Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21730 From: Dave Audley Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21731 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21732 From: gssfhc_wvc Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21733 From: vancampbell64 Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21734 From: erieberk Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21735 From: erieberk Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21736 From: erieberk Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21737 From: vancampbell64 Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21738 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21739 From: corlissbs Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
Group: vintageHO Message: 21740 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
Group: vintageHO Message: 21741 From: gssfhc_wvc Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21742 From: erieberk Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21743 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21744 From: erieberk Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21745 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21746 From: erieberk Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21747 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21748 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21749 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21750 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/21/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21751 From: Denis Long Date: 12/22/2013
Subject: Identification of a PRR T-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 21752 From: gssfhc_wvc Date: 12/22/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21753 From: tonytrain48uk Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21754 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21755 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21756 From: Tony Stanford Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21757 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21758 From: Tony Stanford Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21759 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO Message: 21760 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21761 From: Denis Long Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21762 From: Denis Long Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1 [7 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21763 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 21764 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21765 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 21766 From: Denis Long Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1
Group: vintageHO Message: 21767 From: Richard White Date: 12/25/2013
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21768 From: Sean Naylor Date: 12/27/2013
Subject: Re: FSM #155 Coal Dock [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO Message: 21769 From: Tony Stanford Date: 12/27/2013
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
Group: vintageHO Message: 21770 From: redvdub1 Date: 12/28/2013
Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 21771 From: redvdub1 Date: 12/28/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21772 From: Dave Audley Date: 12/29/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
Group: vintageHO Message: 21773 From: corlissbs Date: 12/29/2013
Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives



Group: vintageHO Message: 20726 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Intro
A hearty welcome to you, Tyler!
 
Lots of  friendly people and good information here!
 
Ad Happy Ne Year to all!
 
Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20727 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Intro and Continued Seasons Greetings
Hello Tyler, Welcome aboard; we're lucky that you found us. Hope you find
all the early H0 model info you're looking for. Don't forget about
searching the archives and the files. There are trainloads of information ready to
be hauled out of them.

Wishes all a very Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.

Ray Wetzel</HTML>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20728 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Still here
Happy New Year to all. Keep those steamers fired.


Jim H
Group: vintageHO Message: 20729 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: rwrite some info
On 1/1/2013 2:58 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
>
> I hope to get back to writing a little. I had been screwed up by
> having Doctors prescribed to much Percocet for pain and boy did it
> foul me up. I thought I was having a brain problem. I couldn't write
> my name, remember things or spell. Trying to get it straightened out.
> Coming around but still dealing with other problem. No to good at
> writing yet but going to try some small answers. Miss not written. Later
>
> Jim H
Group: vintageHO Message: 20730 From: Richard Carbo Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: rwrite some info
Keep at it Jim. We can understand you. And, HAPPY NEW YEAR to all. Richard Carbo

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 1, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:

 

On 1/1/2013 2:58 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
>
> I hope to get back to writing a little. I had been screwed up by
> having Doctors prescribed to much Percocet for pain and boy did it
> foul me up. I thought I was having a brain problem. I couldn't write
> my name, remember things or spell. Trying to get it straightened out.
> Coming around but still dealing with other problem. No to good at
> writing yet but going to try some small answers. Miss not written. Later
>
> Jim H

Group: vintageHO Message: 20731 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Still here
Hi Jim:

Good to see you post. In the year or two I've been on this List, you
quickly appeared to me as one of the real, "anchor-men," of the
group. Great info and input from you....every time you posted. It
is an endearing and meaningful phenomena with this Group that the
genuine words and commentaries in the Posts from real folks carry as
much value as the Zamac and metal antiques we restore. Good human
stuff here; thanks for still being around.

Not to ignore others, as there are many here I greatly respect.

Meanwhile, we open the New Year here on our old 1920's farm with a
thin coat of snow on the surrounding wheat fields and not a car
passing by in two days. We can see the lights from two neighboring
farms about 1.5 miles away, so we know they are still there. Saw a
decent looking Varney Casey Jones sell recently and enjoy mine after
loosing my original back in the 1960's. Plus, because of this List,
I made the successful effort in acquiring a Mantua 8-Ball Mogul and a
Belle of the Eighties early in my membership here. Will probably
never be able to afford a Varney, "Super," series steam locomotive of
any version, but that's OK.

Just pulled out my E&H Model Hobbies 1956 catalog. Gee..........they
mailed me that when it was issued; I've had it ever since ! Have
my interests in railroads existed since that long ago? Am I that old? Ouch.

Oh well; glad to be here. I'm headed back to the coffee pot.

Happy New Year,
Dennis Thompson
Odessa/Ritzville, E WA state




At 10:18 AM 1/1/2013, you wrote:


> Happy New Year to all. Keep those steamers fired.
>
>
> Jim H
Group: vintageHO Message: 20732 From: John Hagen Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] write some info

Jim,

 

Happy to hear that you may be able to return to writing to the groups. Your input is always interesting and educational and I for one have missed it.

 

A happy and healthy New Year to you.

 

John Hagen

 

From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:59 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] write some info

 

 


I hope to get back to writing a little. I had been screwed up by having
Doctors prescribed to much Percocet for pain and boy did it foul me up.
I thought I was having a brain problem. I couldn't write my name,
remember things or spell. Trying to get it straightened out. Coming
around . No to good at writing yet but going to try some small answers.
Miss not written. Later

Jim H

Group: vintageHO Message: 20733 From: cwrailman Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides now completed

As the final project of 2012 to come out of the California Western Loco and Car Rebuild shops, the Gorre and Daphetid box car is now completed.  I know a few of you checked out the progress earlier and the project is now completed.  You can check out the final product at my CWRailman.com web site.  I hope this motivates a few of you to do your own build.  If so please share you progress with us.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
>
>
> I know some of you guys build using paper or card stock car sides and
> some of the very early kits had paper/card car sides so you might be
> interested in this latest build to come out of my California Western
> Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops of a G&D
> box car. Some of the techniques are applicable to building other
> vintage kits as well.
>
> Denny
>
> Janitor in Training
>
> CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
>
> WEB site: CWRailman.com
>
> Facebook: CWRailman
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20734 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: odd car
Cleaning out the odds and ends of my collection (accumulation? I) have a few things that don’t go with the rest:
Die cast Zamak heavyweight coach—I think we might have determined it is Knapp—no trucks, smooth casting but no rivet detail.
Athearn metal 3-dome tank car body—no frame.
die cast 40’flat car
 
somebody send me $6 toward shipping they’re yours.
Glenn Joesten
3825 Pruett Drive
Yreka, CA 96097
Group: vintageHO Message: 20735 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Some Paul Moore
I just played a hunch and got a 1949 P Moore catalog through eBay.

I now have better drawings of his short run ACF like streamlined traction and diesel powered creations.

I know they are free lanced. But I'm just not very concerned about that detail.

The catalog has an additional preprinted postcard that carries another Interurban ACF style of double ended trolley.

It also mentions the existence of a ten page 'Streamline Rail Car Plan Book.

Does anyone have this planbook and is willing to either sell it to me or a copy of its pages???

I'd sure like to laser cut the variations of these ACF style diesel rail cars and interurban cars.......

Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone
Group: vintageHO Message: 20736 From: Wally Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: A 4 wheel switch engine Amercian Flyer?
I have a 4 wheel diesel switcher with side rods that I want to sell. I am not sure of the manufacturer, maybe American Flyer? The previous owner had glued signs on the side of the cab and these have left spots which are visible in the pictures. It runs very well but just doesn't fit my collection. Pictures are in my folder and I would like $75 for this. If you are interested, please contact me off line.

Thanks!

Wally

dim01521@...
Group: vintageHO Message: 20737 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Knapp passenger
Glenn,

Pictures of different views of 3 Knapp passenger cars which might
be one item you are talking about. I can gave more info if needed but
hopefully the pictures will do.

Jim H
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20738 From: John Hagen Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: A 4 wheel switch engine Amercian Flyer?

American Flyer is a good guess as it clearly has “GILBERT” molded in the left walkway underside.

 

John Hagen

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wally
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 7:24 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] A 4 wheel switch engine Amercian Flyer?

 

 

I have a 4 wheel diesel switcher with side rods that I want to sell. I am not sure of the manufacturer, maybe American Flyer? The previous owner had glued signs on the side of the cab and these have left spots which are visible in the pictures. It runs very well but just doesn't fit my collection. Pictures are in my folder and I would like $75 for this. If you are interested, please contact me off line.

Thanks!

Wally

dim01521@...

Group: vintageHO Message: 20739 From: Glenn Date: 1/1/2013
Subject: Re: Knapp passenger [3 Attachments]
the one on the left--interested?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Heckard
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 5:26 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Knapp passenger [3 Attachments]



Glenn,

Pictures of different views of 3 Knapp passenger cars which might
be one item you are talking about. I can gave more info if needed but
hopefully the pictures will do.

Jim H


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Group: vintageHO Message: 20740 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: 4 wheel switch engine
Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20741 From: Sean Naylor Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: Intro
Hello Tyler!

Welcome aboard!

& Happy New Year everyone!

We all here know all to well about the crystallization (zimax rot) of the die cast metal engines!
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

From: gbwdude <gbwdude@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:24 AM
Subject: [vintageHO] Intro

 
Hello,

I am lucky to find this group as I operate (and restore) many items not usually seen on model railroads today. Like many of the people on here I'm sure, my worst enemy is zamac poisoning. My semi-fictional model railroad, the Whiskey River Railway, has quite the unique roster of locomotives and rolling stock compared to some other modern rosters.

In the future I'll be posting pictures and probably a few questions. I hope everyone has a fun and safe New Years!

Tyler Dreisow
Manager of the Whiskey River Railway



Group: vintageHO Message: 20742 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]
Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on the rear drive shafts.
Dom


From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]

 

Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim


Group: vintageHO Message: 20743 From: Glenn Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: part needed
Does anyone know of a replacement for the truck mounting bushings in the old die cast MDC freight cars?   it is a flanged “top hat” shaped plastic part. Main body is 0.177 diameter. (3.16”) center hole is a tap-size hole for a 2-56 screw.
 
Given the number of these cars still out there, I would think that someone has them??  I need 2 now—several more soon.Ghanks--
Glenn Joesten
Group: vintageHO Message: 20744 From: raul@wi.rr.com Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: part needed
--
I have some .187" I could mail you. Roger Aultman



-- Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

=============
Does anyone know of a replacement for the truck mounting bushings in the old die cast MDC freight cars? it is a flanged “top hat” shaped plastic part. Main body is 0.177 diameter. (3.16”) center hole is a tap-size hole for a 2-56 screw.

Given the number of these cars still out there, I would think that someone has them?? I need 2 now—several more soon.Ghanks--
Glenn Joesten
Group: vintageHO Message: 20745 From: raul@wi.rr.com Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine Parts
--
I have on e of these missing the jackshaft, was there a repro part made for these.
Roger Aultman



-- "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:

=============
Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on the rear drive shafts.
Dom



________________________________
From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]


 
[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]

Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim
Group: vintageHO Message: 20746 From: John Webster Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides now completed
Lovely build of the G&D printed car sides. I will refer to it when I build the set I picked up at a show many years ago.
 
Can't help but think it would just a little bit better with archbar trucks and KD-58 couplers.
 
I enjoy browsing your web pages. Some of it is "I remember doing that" and some of it is "I wish I had thought of that".
Group: vintageHO Message: 20747 From: cwrailman Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides now completed

John,

You have a good vision of the car.  I had thought of using arch bar trucks however since this is an interchange car with my 1928 era road I decided to be somewhat progressive for the time and use Andrews trucks however that could be easily changed.  If you check out the cars on the Roundhouse page of my web site you'll see that I do use them on all my cars that are not interchanged such as my log hauling flat cars and tank car however my box cars which could be interchanged with other railroads have Andrews trucks similar to what this car rides on. 

I hope you will share images of your build with us when you get around to doing it.  I'm sure the guys on the G&D board would enjoy seeing it also.  What scale are you working in?  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Webster" wrote:
>
> Lovely build of the G&D printed car sides. I will refer to it when I build the set I picked up at a show many years ago.
>
> Can't help but think it would just a little bit better with archbar trucks and KD-58 couplers.
>
> I enjoy browsing your web pages. Some of it is "I remember doing that" and some of it is "I wish I had thought of that".
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20748 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Mind still not right. Should have said Gilbert not Lionel. This is why shouldn't write things yet. As for the counterbalance being found on both switch engines the Lionel books say only on the one but could be added easily and could be on both. Thanks for spotting the correction.

                                                         Jim H


On 1/2/2013 7:38 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
 
Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on the rear drive shafts.
Dom


From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]

 

Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim



Group: vintageHO Message: 20749 From: John Hagen Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine

Cripes Jim,

 

I make those kind of mistakes more than I care to admit and I am not on any such medications.

 

I check and re-check and then check again all of my emails before posting and I still use wrong words or leave out words (often the simple word “not” which can completely reverse the meaning of what I was saying) more often than I care to say, if I could remember how often.

 

Don’t let the desire for perfection in your writings stop you. If I did that I’d never write anything.

 

John Hagen

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 9:54 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine

 

 

Mind still not right. Should have said Gilbert not Lionel. This is why shouldn't write things yet. As for the counterbalance being found on both switch engines the Lionel books say only on the one but could be added easily and could be on both. Thanks for spotting the correction.

                                                         Jim H


On 1/2/2013 7:38 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

 

Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on the rear drive shafts.

Dom

 


From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]

 

 


Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim

 

 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20750 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Thanks John for your comment. Everyone makes mistakes but those mistakes start problems. Those mistakes can start vintage HO history that take a life of their own. Happy New Year
                                                                                              Jim H

                                                                                              

On 1/3/2013 1:08 PM, John Hagen wrote:
 

Cripes Jim,

 

I make those kind of mistakes more than I care to admit and I am not on any such medications.

 

I check and re-check and then check again all of my emails before posting and I still use wrong words or leave out words (often the simple word “not” which can completely reverse the meaning of what I was saying) more often than I care to say, if I could remember how often.

 

Don’t let the desire for perfection in your writings stop you. If I did that I’d never write anything.

 

John Hagen

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 9:54 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine

 

 

Mind still not right. Should have said Gilbert not Lionel. This is why shouldn't write things yet. As for the counterbalance being found on both switch engines the Lionel books say only on the one but could be added easily and could be on both. Thanks for spotting the correction.

                                                         Jim H


On 1/2/2013 7:38 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

 

Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on the rear drive shafts.

Dom

 


From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]

 

 


Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim

 

 


Group: vintageHO Message: 20751 From: jay matz Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Those who never make a mistake, never do anything.
One of the things I try to teach new people is you won't learn something if you don't try.
if you mess something up do it again. it will be better the next time. that is how the rest
of us learned.
Jay
                                             

 
 


Group: vintageHO Message: 20752 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Jim

I have missed your contributions for the last few months. But I
understand, my doctors now have me taking 340 doses of codene and/or
morphine per month along with several other weirdo meds.

Don't worry about those easly detected "slips". We all knew what you meant.
Just keep sharing your knowledge and photos.
And, thank you again for preserving so much of our hobby's history.
I vaguely remembered the Flyer switcher but as I was on active duty
at sea during the short time it was available I never actually saw
one. Thank you for the photos.

Jake Bechtel
Gadsden, AL

On 1/3/13, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:
> Thanks John for your comment. Everyone makes mistakes but those mistakes
> start problems. Those mistakes can start vintage HO history that take a
> life of their own. Happy New Year
> Jim H
>
>
>
> On 1/3/2013 1:08 PM, John Hagen wrote:
>>
>> Cripes Jim,
>>
>> I make those kind of mistakes more than I care to admit and I am not
>> on any such medications.
>>
>> I check and re-check and then check again all of my emails before
>> posting and I still use wrong words or leave out words (often the
>> simple word “not” which can completely reverse the meaning of what I
>> was saying) more often than I care to say, if I could remember how often.
>>
>> Don’t let the desire for perfection in your writings stop you. If I
>> did that I’d never write anything.
>>
>> John Hagen
>>
>> *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
>> *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2013 9:54 AM
>> *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine
>>
>> Mind still not right. Should have said Gilbert not Lionel. This is why
>> shouldn't write things yet. As for the counterbalance being found on
>> both switch engines the Lionel books say only on the one but could be
>> added easily and could be on both. Thanks for spotting the correction.
>>
>> Jim H
>>
>>
>> On 1/2/2013 7:38 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant
>> the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding
>> the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on
>> the rear drive shafts.
>>
>> Dom
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> <mailto:jimheck@...>
>> *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
>> *Subject:* [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]
>>
>>
>> Wally, Others
>>
>> These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
>> Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one
>> has
>> the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to
>> purchase.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20753 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: The Zephyr
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2054.htm

I thought some group members might be interested in this episode of
Engines Of Our Ingenuity about the Zephyrs. EOOI is a 4 minute
syndicated feature heard on radio stations around the country. The link
above goes to a transcript of the episode. There's a link there to hear
the audio version.

--

Rick Jones

A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent
you from rolling over and going back to sleep when you hit the
snooze button.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20754 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: 4 wheel switch engine
Hi Jim, it's really just the black shell 31013 that comes with both white and black counter weights. The blue shell doesn't come with any. Just a little help from your friends.
Dom



From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine

 
Mind still not right. Should have said Gilbert not Lionel. This is why shouldn't write things yet. As for the counterbalance being found on both switch engines the Lionel books say only on the one but could be added easily and could be on both. Thanks for spotting the correction.

                                                         Jim H


On 1/2/2013 7:38 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
 
Hi Jim, I'm sure you had a slip of the tongue? No doubt you meant the two Gilbert HO transfer switchers. A note of info regarding the 31013. It is also found with black counter balance weights on the rear drive shafts.
Dom


From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] 4 wheel switch engine [2 Attachments]

 

Wally, Others

These are the two LIONEL HO 4 wheel switch engines with Jack
Shafts. These are original paint and printing except the black one has
the extra little eccentrics on the back axle. No I don't want to purchase.

Jim





Group: vintageHO Message: 20755 From: tom leen Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: The Zephyr
Hi Rick,
Love the mousetrap idea.  I laughed so hard I almost fell off my chair.  My teenage son was wondering if he should call "911".  Thanks for the great laugh.
Tom

--- On Thu, 1/3/13, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

From: Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] The Zephyr
To: HOtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, 1914to1940RRing@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 11:38 PM

 
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2054.htm

I thought some group members might be interested in this episode of
Engines Of Our Ingenuity about the Zephyrs. EOOI is a 4 minute
syndicated feature heard on radio stations around the country. The link
above goes to a transcript of the episode. There's a link there to hear
the audio version.

--

Rick Jones

A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent
you from rolling over and going back to sleep when you hit the
snooze button.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20756 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: part
I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do will try again.  I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
 
The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick.  Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame.  The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw. 
 
Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use somewhere?
 
Thanks for the help.  I have several cars to assemble--
 
Glenn Joesten
Group: vintageHO Message: 20757 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Glenn,

I, too, have been keeping an eye out for anything usable. So far haven't found anything. My thinking is perhaps take some plastic tubing, 3/16" diameter, and glue it into that hole. Problem is, the tubing I have on hand has a center hole too big for a #2 screw. Maybe take solid plastic rod, drill it out for a #2 screw, then use a thin washer for the hub.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

--- On Fri, 1/4/13, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 6:13 PM

 

I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do will try again.  I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
 
The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick.  Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame.  The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw. 
 
Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use somewhere?
 
Thanks for the help.  I have several cars to assemble--
 
Glenn Joesten
Group: vintageHO Message: 20758 From: Glenn Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Steve—exactly what I was thinking.  If I could find some plastic rod that machines easily I would make what I need—Actually—I just checked the kits I have—all 3 have the bushings—so  there is just an odd hopper that needs them—I have 3 of these hoppers—50-55 ton cars,  2 off-set side, one rib side—have die cast bodies with sheet metal slope sheets—Ulrich??
Thanx--gj
 
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] part
 


Glenn,

I, too, have been keeping an eye out for anything usable. So far haven't found anything. My thinking is perhaps take some plastic tubing, 3/16" diameter, and glue it into that hole. Problem is, the tubing I have on hand has a center hole too big for a #2 screw. Maybe take solid plastic rod, drill it out for a #2 screw, then use a thin washer for the hub.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

--- On Fri, 1/4/13, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 4, 2013, 6:13 PM

 
I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do will try again.  I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
 
The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick.  Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame.  The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw. 
 
Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use somewhere?
 
Thanks for the help.  I have several cars to assemble--
 
Glenn Joesten
Group: vintageHO Message: 20759 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
Yep, I think most folks know what you are referring to.  I also wish I knew where to find some.  I can use a few.  In the meantime, I took plastic sprue and tubing of appropriate sizes, glued em up and stuck in a drill to sand and file down to the correct size.  Then drilled a hole for the screw.  That is probably the quickest solution until someone comes up a source.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: glenn476@...
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 16:13:52 -0800
Subject: [vintageHO] part

 

I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do will try again.  I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
 
The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick.  Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame.  The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw. 
 
Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use somewhere?
 
Thanks for the help.  I have several cars to assemble--
 
Glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO Message: 20760 From: Alan Kilby Date: 1/4/2013
Subject: Re: part
 Have you checked with NWSL they list insulating flange bushings on their website,have you tried telescoping tubing to get smaller I.D..
 aLAN
Group: vintageHO Message: 20761 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
not enough room to reduce the diam.  gj
 
From: Alan Kilby
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] part
 


Have you checked with NWSL they list insulating flange bushings on their website,have you tried telescoping tubing to get smaller I.D..
aLAN
Group: vintageHO Message: 20763 From: Richard Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Glenn,
When ever I have a need for something like this, I first head to our Ace Hardware store and go to the aile where they keep the nuts, bolts and washers. On one side of that aile they have many little pull-out boxes of all kinds of hard to find parts, including metal and plastic washers of different sizes. If you have one of these stores in your town, you might find something there that will do the job.
Richard in Vermont

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" wrote:
>
> I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do will try again. I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
>
> The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick. Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw.
>
> Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use somewhere?
>
> Thanks for the help. I have several cars to assemble--
>
> Glenn Joesten
> glenn476@...
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20764 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
On 1/5/2013 2:24 AM, Glenn wrote:
>
>
> not enough room to reduce the diam. gj

You might have to go with a two piece solution - a rod or tube
inserted in the hole with a larger diameter plastic or fiber washer on
top as the flange.

--

Rick Jones

The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and
put it back in your pocket.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20765 From: Richard Carbo Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel

Congrats on your retirement. Enjoy. And, go play with your trains. Richard Carbo

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana and Allen Hansen
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:15 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel

 

 

 

The only Person that doesn’t made a mistake, is the one that does not do anything. 

 

I must be the most productive individual ever...

 

I retired yesterday, they will  be sorry.  Ha.

 

Maybe I can stop armchair modeling and get my stuff out and unwrap it from the 1993 newspapers.

 

Sorry this off topic of actual vintage models. Couldn’t resist.

 

Allen Hansen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20766 From: Bill Pittman Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: odd car
HI Glenn,
 
Are the odd cars still avalible?
 
Thank You
 
Bill
 

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 6:59 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] odd car



Cleaning out the odds and ends of my collection (accumulation? I) have a few things that don’t go with the rest:
Die cast Zamak heavyweight coach—I think we might have determined it is Knapp—no trucks, smooth casting but no rivet detail.
Athearn metal 3-dome tank car body—no frame.
die cast 40’flat car
 
somebody send me $6 toward shipping they’re yours.
Glenn Joesten
3825 Pruett Drive
Yreka, CA 96097




Group: vintageHO Message: 20767 From: 23weldon Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
"The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick. Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw."

1. Go to a well equipped hardware store and look for nylon screws in size 10-32 or 10-24. These sizes are usually just a paper thickness smaller than 3/16.  A bit of tape,  thin polyethylene plastic sheet  or glue will make it a tight fit in the 3/16 hole.  File the head flat and drill the needed screw hole either before or after installation.
 
2. Another approach is to find one of those special screws that are used to hold things in sheetrock walls.  The plastic inserts that they use to hold them in the drywall and provide a strong thread can be cut down to fit.  You'll need the smallest size you can find and may still need to shave it a bit with an Xacto knife to make it fit.
 
3. Still another is to heat a plastic sprue or the end or cap of some small bottle or tube that is the right size.and make a flat on the end.  Then shave and  drill.  Almost all of the plastic parts of such everyday products can be heated to a near melting point and formed to size.  The trick is to set yourself up to work fast with the right tools since small objects cool quickly in the air.
 
4.  Fill the hole with a drop of 5 minute epoxy using a toothpick or unbent paper clip to get the air bubble out; then file and drill.
 
5.  Make the bushing out of a small wood dowel.  Chuck it in an electric drill,  form it with a file and cut it off flat at the head with a fine saw blade held against the rotating workpiece. 
 
Ed Weldon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20768 From: john.allyn@comcast.net Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
These bushings had the unfortunate habit of splitting or disintegrating.  And as far as I can discern, replacements are unavailable.  The reason that MDC used them was electrical: metal trucks combined with cast on metal coupler pockets and metal couplers makes for a short circuit.  I've gotten around the problem in this way:

Drill out the bottom of the bolster cavity with the tap drill for a 2-56 screw (#56?), tap the hole, put a washer of the appropriate width (wide enough to bridge the bolster cavity) and thickness (thick or thin enough to get the right coupler height) on top of the bolster cavity, and screw on the truck.  If you have to use metal trucks with metal wheels, use a plastic 2-56 screw.  Or replace the metal wheels with plastic wheels and use a metal 2-56 screw, a particularly good solution if the old wheels have the old S-4 flanges.  Or replace the metal trucks with plastic trucks.

John B. Allyn




From: "Alan Kilby" <albyrno@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 8:48:20 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] part

 

 Have you checked with NWSL they list insulating flange bushings on their website,have you tried telescoping tubing to get smaller I.D..
 aLAN

Group: vintageHO Message: 20769 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel

Congratulations do not jump up and down too much.  Get those models unwrapped and get to work on them.

 

Enjoy.

 

Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://s1292.photobucket.com/albums/b574/lordon104/

 


From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dana and Allen Hansen
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:15 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel

 

 

 

The only Person that doesn’t made a mistake, is the one that does not do anything. 

 

I must be the most productive individual ever...

 

I retired yesterday, they will  be sorry.  Ha.

 

Maybe I can stop armchair modeling and get my stuff out and unwrap it from the 1993 newspapers.

 

Sorry this off topic of actual vintage models. Couldn’t resist.

 

Allen Hansen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20770 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
How about getting the plastic tubing [ hobby shop stuff from Evergreen or Plastruct ] that fits that hole, gluing it in place and screwing into that?

Or go for the clear soft plastic tubing that hardware stores carry as drain tubing and hobby shops carry as R/C fuel line? There will be enough wall of the tubing for the screw to mount into.

Since Small Parts Inc became part of Amazon.com, you can find that flanged plastic bushing through them with no problem.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



On Jan 5, 2013, at 10:39 AM, 23weldon <23.weldon@...> wrote:



"The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick. Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw."

1. Go to a well equipped hardware store and look for nylon screws in size 10-32 or 10-24. These sizes are usually just a paper thickness smaller than 3/16.  A bit of tape,  thin polyethylene plastic sheet  or glue will make it a tight fit in the 3/16 hole.  File the head flat and drill the needed screw hole either before or after installation.
 
2. Another approach is to find one of those special screws that are used to hold things in sheetrock walls.  The plastic inserts that they use to hold them in the drywall and provide a strong thread can be cut down to fit.  You'll need the smallest size you can find and may still need to shave it a bit with an Xacto knife to make it fit.
 
3. Still another is to heat a plastic sprue or the end or cap of some small bottle or tube that is the right size.and make a flat on the end.  Then shave and  drill.  Almost all of the plastic parts of such everyday products can be heated to a near melting point and formed to size.  The trick is to set yourself up to work fast with the right tools since small objects cool quickly in the air.
 
4.  Fill the hole with a drop of 5 minute epoxy using a toothpick or unbent paper clip to get the air bubble out; then file and drill.
 
5.  Make the bushing out of a small wood dowel.  Chuck it in an electric drill,  form it with a file and cut it off flat at the head with a fine saw blade held against the rotating workpiece. 
 
Ed Weldon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20771 From: nvrr49@yahoo.com Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Attachments :
Glen, Is the attached what you are looking for.  If the dimensions are correct, I will try printing some in ABS, and see what happens.  A good test for the new printer.
 
Kent Hurley
Kansas City, MO
 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn"  wrote:
>
> I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do will try again.  I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
>
> The body of the bushing was 3/16â€, with a flange about 1/4†diameter and 1/32†thick.  Overall length was also about 3/16†since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame.  The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw. 
>
> Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use somewhere?
>
> Thanks for the help.  I have several cars to assemble--
>
> Glenn Joesten
> glenn476@...
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20772 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
The problem with a 3/16" hole is finding truck mounts that will fit that. Most trucks are designed to accept a #2 screw. Athearn trucks, the plastic ones, use a wider hole that could be widened all the way, the the head of a larger screw fitting below the truck bolster, rather than inside.

I've been looking into that myself recently.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, 23weldon <23.weldon@...> wrote:

From: 23weldon <23.weldon@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 10:39 AM

 

"The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick. Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw."

1. Go to a well equipped hardware store and look for nylon screws in size 10-32 or 10-24. These sizes are usually just a paper thickness smaller than 3/16.  A bit of tape,  thin polyethylene plastic sheet  or glue will make it a tight fit in the 3/16 hole.  File the head flat and drill the needed screw hole either before or after installation.
 
2. Another approach is to find one of those special screws that are used to hold things in sheetrock walls.  The plastic inserts that they use to hold them in the drywall and provide a strong thread can be cut down to fit.  You'll need the smallest size you can find and may still need to shave it a bit with an Xacto knife to make it fit.
 
3. Still another is to heat a plastic sprue or the end or cap of some small bottle or tube that is the right size.and make a flat on the end.  Then shave and  drill.  Almost all of the plastic parts of such everyday products can be heated to a near melting point and formed to size.  The trick is to set yourself up to work fast with the right tools since small objects cool quickly in the air.
 
4.  Fill the hole with a drop of 5 minute epoxy using a toothpick or unbent paper clip to get the air bubble out; then file and drill.
 
5.  Make the bushing out of a small wood dowel.  Chuck it in an electric drill,  form it with a file and cut it off flat at the head with a fine saw blade held against the rotating workpiece. 
 
Ed Weldon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20773 From: Sean Naylor Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Mystery GG1
Attachments :
Hi Guys!

I have a New Year's mystery locomotive here...

It is a die cast metal GG1. It does not appear to be the typical GHC Japan import and it definitely is not the Penn Line version.

Please look at the listing photos closely! Note the brass chassis power truck & 1 dummy truck and the die cast pantograph frames. The pantographs even seem to be not typical.

Any input is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20774 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
I don't usually think of Ace for stuff this small--will try tomorrow as I
was already there today gj

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:07 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: part

Glenn,
When ever I have a need for something like this, I first head to our Ace
Hardware store and go to the aile where they keep the nuts, bolts and
washers. On one side of that aile they have many little pull-out boxes of
all kinds of hard to find parts, including metal and plastic washers of
different sizes. If you have one of these stores in your town, you might
find something there that will do the job.
Richard in Vermont

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" wrote:
>
> I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do
> will try again. I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model
> Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their
> models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
>
> The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter
> and 1/32” thick. Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars
> had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole
> through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw.
>
> Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use
> somewhere?
>
> Thanks for the help. I have several cars to assemble--
>
> Glenn Joesten
> glenn476@...
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Group: vintageHO Message: 20775 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Since I only need 2 I M filling the holes with epoxy then drill and tap.  Thanks for all the help.
 
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] part
 


How about getting the plastic tubing [ hobby shop stuff from Evergreen or Plastruct ] that fits that hole, gluing it in place and screwing into that?
 
Or go for the clear soft plastic tubing that hardware stores carry as drain tubing and hobby shops carry as R/C fuel line? There will be enough wall of the tubing for the screw to mount into.
 
Since Small Parts Inc became part of Amazon.com, you can find that flanged plastic bushing through them with no problem.
 
Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
 
 
 
On Jan 5, 2013, at 10:39 AM, 23weldon <23.weldon@...> wrote:



"The body of the bushing was 3/16”, with a flange about 1/4” diameter and 1/32” thick. Overall length was also about 3/16” since open cars had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw."

1. Go to a well equipped hardware store and look for nylon screws in size 10-32 or 10-24. These sizes are usually just a paper thickness smaller than 3/16.  A bit of tape,  thin polyethylene plastic sheet  or glue will make it a tight fit in the 3/16 hole.  File the head flat and drill the needed screw hole either before or after installation.
 
2. Another approach is to find one of those special screws that are used to hold things in sheetrock walls.  The plastic inserts that they use to hold them in the drywall and provide a strong thread can be cut down to fit.  You'll need the smallest size you can find and may still need to shave it a bit with an Xacto knife to make it fit.
 
3. Still another is to heat a plastic sprue or the end or cap of some small bottle or tube that is the right size.and make a flat on the end.  Then shave and  drill.  Almost all of the plastic parts of such everyday products can be heated to a near melting point and formed to size.  The trick is to set yourself up to work fast with the right tools since small objects cool quickly in the air.
 
4.  Fill the hole with a drop of 5 minute epoxy using a toothpick or unbent paper clip to get the air bubble out; then file and drill.
 
5.  Make the bushing out of a small wood dowel.  Chuck it in an electric drill,  form it with a file and cut it off flat at the head with a fine saw blade held against the rotating workpiece.
 
Ed Weldon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20776 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: odd car
yes.  gj
 
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] odd car
 


HI Glenn,
 
Are the odd cars still avalible?
 
Thank You
 
Bill
 
 
From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 6:59 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] odd car
 


Cleaning out the odds and ends of my collection (accumulation? I) have a few things that don’t go with the rest:
Die cast Zamak heavyweight coach—I think we might have determined it is Knapp—no trucks, smooth casting but no rivet detail.
Athearn metal 3-dome tank car body—no frame.
die cast 40’flat car
 
somebody send me $6 toward shipping they’re yours.
Glenn Joesten
3825 Pruett Drive
Yreka, CA 96097




Group: vintageHO Message: 20777 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Glenn and all,

Over at Ace earlier. They have a nylon spacer with 3/16" outside diameter, I got a couple of the 1" length ones.Inside will accomodate a #6 machine screw.

What I am trying tonight, is cut the spacer to length, glue it into the hole in the car floor, then use a #8 washer (Metal for the hub. The center hole in a #8 screw is 3/16". Widen the hole in an Athearn truck for the #6 screw, secure the truck to the bushing. As the Athearn truck is plastic frame and wheels, insulation will certainly not be a problem!

Will post pics and results tonight or tomorrow.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 4:55 PM

 

I don't usually think of Ace for stuff this small--will try tomorrow as I
was already there today gj

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:07 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: part

Glenn,
When ever I have a need for something like this, I first head to our Ace
Hardware store and go to the aile where they keep the nuts, bolts and
washers. On one side of that aile they have many little pull-out boxes of
all kinds of hard to find parts, including metal and plastic washers of
different sizes. If you have one of these stores in your town, you might
find something there that will do the job.
Richard in Vermont

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" wrote:
>
> I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do
> will try again. I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model
> Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their
> models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
>
> The body of the bushing was 3/16â€, with a flange about 1/4†diameter
> and 1/32†thick. Overall length was also about 3/16†since open cars
> had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole
> through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw.
>
> Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use
> somewhere?
>
> Thanks for the help. I have several cars to assemble--
>
> Glenn Joesten
> glenn476@...
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO Message: 20778 From: Glenn Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
good ideas, but the hole in the car frame is 3/16”—everything here is too big. 
 
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: part
 


Glenn and all,

Over at Ace earlier. They have a nylon spacer with 3/16" outside diameter, I got a couple of the 1" length ones.Inside will accomodate a #6 machine screw.

What I am trying tonight, is cut the spacer to length, glue it into the hole in the car floor, then use a #8 washer (Metal for the hub. The center hole in a #8 screw is 3/16". Widen the hole in an Athearn truck for the #6 screw, secure the truck to the bushing. As the Athearn truck is plastic frame and wheels, insulation will certainly not be a problem!

Will post pics and results tonight or tomorrow.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 4:55 PM

 

I don't usually think of Ace for stuff this small--will try tomorrow as I
was already there today gj

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:07 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: part

Glenn,
When ever I have a need for something like this, I first head to our Ace
Hardware store and go to the aile where they keep the nuts, bolts and
washers. On one side of that aile they have many little pull-out boxes of
all kinds of hard to find parts, including metal and plastic washers of
different sizes. If you have one of these stores in your town, you might
find something there that will do the job.
Richard in Vermont

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" wrote:
>
> I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do
> will try again. I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model
> Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their
> models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
>
> The body of the bushing was 3/16â€, with a flange about 1/4†diameter
> and 1/32†thick. Overall length was also about 3/16†since open cars
> had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole
> through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw.
>
> Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use
> somewhere?
>
> Thanks for the help. I have several cars to assemble--
>
> Glenn Joesten
> glenn476@...
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO Message: 20779 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: part
Glenn,

Correct. The Ace near my home is smaller than most, so I'm only assuming if the one here has it, they all do.

The tubing fits into that 3/16" hole, the inside hole in the tubing is just right for a #6 machine screw (Threads on a #6 sheet metal screw are too coarse, I tried them too). Athearn plastic trucks have a larger hole for the collar on their bolsters. Widen that hole slighty to bring it to large enough for a #6 screw.

Pictures will help. My shoulder is hurting bad, so I've got my pain meds going through me right now. Makes it a bit more "Interesting" trying to explain these things.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:53 PM

 

good ideas, but the hole in the car frame is 3/16”—everything here is too big. 
 
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: part
 


Glenn and all,

Over at Ace earlier. They have a nylon spacer with 3/16" outside diameter, I got a couple of the 1" length ones.Inside will accomodate a #6 machine screw.

What I am trying tonight, is cut the spacer to length, glue it into the hole in the car floor, then use a #8 washer (Metal for the hub. The center hole in a #8 screw is 3/16". Widen the hole in an Athearn truck for the #6 screw, secure the truck to the bushing. As the Athearn truck is plastic frame and wheels, insulation will certainly not be a problem!

Will post pics and results tonight or tomorrow.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: part
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 4:55 PM

 

I don't usually think of Ace for stuff this small--will try tomorrow as I
was already there today gj

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:07 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: part

Glenn,
When ever I have a need for something like this, I first head to our Ace
Hardware store and go to the aile where they keep the nuts, bolts and
washers. On one side of that aile they have many little pull-out boxes of
all kinds of hard to find parts, including metal and plastic washers of
different sizes. If you have one of these stores in your town, you might
find something there that will do the job.
Richard in Vermont

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" wrote:
>
> I inquired a couple of days ago about this, but didn’t get a reply, do
> will try again. I am looking for some of the plastic bushings like Model
> Die Casting used to use (back when they actually were die casting their
> models) to insulate the trucks from the frame/floor.
>
> The body of the bushing was 3/16â€, with a flange about 1/4†diameter
> and 1/32†thick. Overall length was also about 3/16†since open cars
> had blind holes where the bushing pressed into the frame. The hole
> through the bushing is a tap size for a 2-56 screw.
>
> Does anybody recognize this possibly as something in current use
> somewhere?
>
> Thanks for the help. I have several cars to assemble--
>
> Glenn Joesten
> glenn476@...
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO Message: 20780 From: jerrygart5 Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel
Ah, just wait until you start wondering how you used to get done all you did BEFORE you retired. . . .

Congrats!! JerryG

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dana and Allen Hansen wrote:
>
> Vintage HO Operators
>. . . . . . . . .
>
> I retired yesterday, they will be sorry. Ha.
>
>. . . . . . . . .>
> Allen Hansen
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20781 From: hooligan Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Re: Mistakes on naming Gilbert or Lionel
Amen Jerry G. , Amen !! Henry H.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jerrygart5" wrote:
>
> Ah, just wait until you start wondering how you used to get done all you did BEFORE you retired. . . .
>
> Congrats!! JerryG
>
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dana and Allen Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Vintage HO Operators
> >. . . . . . . . .
> >
> > I retired yesterday, they will be sorry. Ha.
> >
> >. . . . . . . . .>
> > Allen Hansen
> >
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20782 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 1/5/2013
Subject: Walthers Roofs
All,

I have a bunch of the older Walthers passenger car kits, the kind with tinplate sides, wood floors, metal ends, and plastic roofs. The roofs hold to the car via a machine screw mounted upwards through the floor and into the roof.

I don't want to use this system. I am interior detailing all these cars, including miniature bulbs in the roof. That machine screw in most cases cannot be hidden. But it becomes almost necessary, as removing all warpage in the roof is near impossible at times, and if I get the roof close to straight, and arched up in the center only very slightly, the screw not only holds it straight, but helps hold the car together too.

I am interested in using wood roofs perhaps. Northeastern makes a wood roof. If I use that, I can run screws in hidden places, such as the end washrooms in the corners, where they could be hidden inside an electrical locker or disguised as plumbing of some kind at minimum.

I don't worry about the contour of the clerestory. All plastic roofs would be replaced, the wood roofs I have from these cars are almost all the turtle roof style - air conditioned - so I don't expect the clerestory to match a turtle roof, and often different car builders would have slightly different roof contours in real life.

Will Northeastern roofs work with little fuss? I'm looking at the sheet metal lip at the top of the car sides and wondering if that will require any carving or fitting with Northeastern roofs.

The plastic roofs I plan to reuse on other projects. Have a few things in mind.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum
Group: vintageHO Message: 20783 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
On 1/5/2013 11:54 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
All,

I have a bunch of the older Walthers passenger car kits, the kind with tinplate sides, wood floors, metal ends, and plastic roofs. The roofs hold to the car via a machine screw mounted upwards through the floor and into the roof.

I don't want to use this system. I am interior detailing all these cars, including miniature bulbs in the roof. That machine screw in most cases cannot be hidden. But it becomes almost necessary, as removing all warpage in the roof is near impossible at times, and if I get the roof close to straight, and arched up in the center only very slightly, the screw not only holds it straight, but helps hold the car together too.

I am interested in using wood roofs perhaps. Northeastern makes a wood roof. If I use that, I can run screws in hidden places, such as the end washrooms in the corners, where they could be hidden inside an electrical locker or disguised as plumbing of some kind at minimum.

I don't worry about the contour of the clerestory. All plastic roofs would be replaced, the wood roofs I have from these cars are almost all the turtle roof style - air conditioned - so I don't expect the clerestory to match a turtle roof, and often different car builders would have slightly different roof contours in real life.

Will Northeastern roofs work with little fuss? I'm looking at the sheet metal lip at the top of the car sides and wondering if that will require any carving or fitting with Northeastern roofs.

The plastic roofs I plan to reuse on other projects. Have a few things in mind.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

Unfortunately you WILL have a problem with Northeastern roof, it's made to fit straight sides like the JC cars.  You will need to narrow the underside that slips down inside the car in order to fit.  You already will have to carve the ends to ends to get the proper end contour, and the beading won't be right unless you can find the end bead castings Walthers used to make, but those were a pain to use too.

I would be inclined to stick with the plastic roof and glue it down.  It's not the difficult to pry off if you need to replace a bulb.  Probably a lot less work, anf the appesrance will be better.

Don


-- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@...
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
Group: vintageHO Message: 20784 From: Sean Naylor Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Mystery GG1
Thanks Guys!

I think FAMCO is it. That is the company that was in my mind, but I just could not get it to come out!

Awesome! Thanks again!
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

From: Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...>
To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Mystery GG1

 
No doubt it is a FAMOCO. I used to have one of these. 

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 5, 2013 11:58 am
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Mystery GG1 [2 Attachments]

 
[Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]
Hi Guys!

I have a New Year's mystery locomotive here...

It is a die cast metal GG1. It does not appear to be the typical GHC Japan import and it definitely is not the Penn Line version.

Please look at the listing photos closely! Note the brass chassis power truck & 1 dummy truck and the die cast pantograph frames. The pantographs even seem to be not typical.

Any input is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


Group: vintageHO Message: 20785 From: Richard White Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
I'd stick with the screw. It has worked fine for me (no interiors). I'd paint the screw flat black so you can't see it through the windows, then when you want to take off the roof to show off your interior the screw won't be there anyway. Regards- Richard White
 

To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: don.dellmann@...
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:55:41 -0600
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs

 
On 1/5/2013 11:54 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
All,

I have a bunch of the older Walthers passenger car kits, the kind with tinplate sides, wood floors, metal ends, and plastic roofs. The roofs hold to the car via a machine screw mounted upwards through the floor and into the roof.

I don't want to use this system. I am interior detailing all these cars, including miniature bulbs in the roof. That machine screw in most cases cannot be hidden. But it becomes almost necessary, as removing all warpage in the roof is near impossible at times, and if I get the roof close to straight, and arched up in the center only very slightly, the screw not only holds it straight, but helps hold the car together too.

I am interested in using wood roofs perhaps. Northeastern makes a wood roof. If I use that, I can run screws in hidden places, such as the end washrooms in the corners, where they could be hidden inside an electrical locker or disguised as plumbing of some kind at minimum.

I don't worry about the contour of the clerestory. All plastic roofs would be replaced, the wood roofs I have from these cars are almost all the turtle roof style - air conditioned - so I don't expect the clerestory to match a turtle roof, and often different car builders would have slightly different roof contours in real life.

Will Northeastern roofs work with little fuss? I'm looking at the sheet metal lip at the top of the car sides and wondering if that will require any carving or fitting with Northeastern roofs.

The plastic roofs I plan to reuse on other projects. Have a few things in mind.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

Unfortunately you WILL have a problem with Northeastern roof, it's made to fit straight sides like the JC cars.  You will need to narrow the underside that slips down inside the car in order to fit.  You already will have to carve the ends to ends to get the proper end contour, and the beading won't be right unless you can find the end bead castings Walthers used to make, but those were a pain to use too.

I would be inclined to stick with the plastic roof and glue it down.  It's not the difficult to pry off if you need to replace a bulb.  Probably a lot less work, anf the appesrance will be better.

Don


-- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@...
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/


Group: vintageHO Message: 20786 From: john.allyn@comcast.net Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
The Northeastern roof also has a clerestory section which seems a bit tall for a "modern" heavyweight car. 

John B. Allyn




From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...>
To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:40:32 AM
Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs

 

I'd stick with the screw. It has worked fine for me (no interiors). I'd paint the screw flat black so you can't see it through the windows, then when you want to take off the roof to show off your interior the screw won't be there anyway. Regards- Richard White
 

To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: don.dellmann@...
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:55:41 -0600
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs

 
On 1/5/2013 11:54 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
All,

I have a bunch of the older Walthers passenger car kits, the kind with tinplate sides, wood floors, metal ends, and plastic roofs. The roofs hold to the car via a machine screw mounted upwards through the floor and into the roof.

I don't want to use this system. I am interior detailing all these cars, including miniature bulbs in the roof. That machine screw in most cases cannot be hidden. But it becomes almost necessary, as removing all warpage in the roof is near impossible at times, and if I get the roof close to straight, and arched up in the center only very slightly, the screw not only holds it straight, but helps hold the car together too.

I am interested in using wood roofs perhaps. Northeastern makes a wood roof. If I use that, I can run screws in hidden places, such as the end washrooms in the corners, where they could be hidden inside an electrical locker or disguised as plumbing of some kind at minimum.

I don't worry about the contour of the clerestory. All plastic roofs would be replaced, the wood roofs I have from these cars are almost all the turtle roof style - air conditioned - so I don't expect the clerestory to match a turtle roof, and often different car builders would have slightly different roof contours in real life.

Will Northeastern roofs work with little fuss? I'm looking at the sheet metal lip at the top of the car sides and wondering if that will require any carving or fitting with Northeastern roofs.

The plastic roofs I plan to reuse on other projects. Have a few things in mind.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

Unfortunately you WILL have a problem with Northeastern roof, it's made to fit straight sides like the JC cars.  You will need to narrow the underside that slips down inside the car in order to fit.  You already will have to carve the ends to ends to get the proper end contour, and the beading won't be right unless you can find the end bead castings Walthers used to make, but those were a pain to use too.

I would be inclined to stick with the plastic roof and glue it down.  It's not the difficult to pry off if you need to replace a bulb.  Probably a lot less work, anf the appesrance will be better.

Don


-- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@...
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/


Group: vintageHO Message: 20787 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs

And if you use Diodes instead of bulbs you should not have that issue either.

 

Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://s1292.photobucket.com/albums/b574/lordon104/

 


From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 4:56 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs

 

 

On 1/5/2013 11:54 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:

All,

I have a bunch of the older Walthers passenger car kits, the kind with tinplate sides, wood floors, metal ends, and plastic roofs. The roofs hold to the car via a machine screw mounted upwards through the floor and into the roof.

I don't want to use this system. I am interior detailing all these cars, including miniature bulbs in the roof. That machine screw in most cases cannot be hidden. But it becomes almost necessary, as removing all warpage in the roof is near impossible at times, and if I get the roof close to straight, and arched up in the center only very slightly, the screw not only holds it straight, but helps hold the car together too.

I am interested in using wood roofs perhaps. Northeastern makes a wood roof. If I use that, I can run screws in hidden places, such as the end washrooms in the corners, where they could be hidden inside an electrical locker or disguised as plumbing of some kind at minimum.

I don't worry about the contour of the clerestory. All plastic roofs would be replaced, the wood roofs I have from these cars are almost all the turtle roof style - air conditioned - so I don't expect the clerestory to match a turtle roof, and often different car builders would have slightly different roof contours in real life.

Will Northeastern roofs work with little fuss? I'm looking at the sheet metal lip at the top of the car sides and wondering if that will require any carving or fitting with Northeastern roofs.

The plastic roofs I plan to reuse on other projects. Have a few things in mind.

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum


Unfortunately you WILL have a problem with Northeastern roof, it's made to fit straight sides like the JC cars.  You will need to narrow the underside that slips down inside the car in order to fit.  You already will have to carve the ends to ends to get the proper end contour, and the beading won't be right unless you can find the end bead castings Walthers used to make, but those were a pain to use too.

I would be inclined to stick with the plastic roof and glue it down.  It's not the difficult to pry off if you need to replace a bulb.  Probably a lot less work, anf the appesrance will be better.

Don


-- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@...
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO Message: 20788 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Someday, I want to show you how you can take a single manufactured roof and duplicate it in a few ways to make several as a result.

With variations on casting or vacuforming the ends and making use of the rest of the roof into construction ribs with a minor tweak, you can make dozens of hollow, detailed clerestory roofs if you need to.

At it's most basic, I can take 2/3's of the length of a manufactured roof and cast dozens of dupes to splice into whatever length I need for a particular car. With a simple mod to that section of commercial roof I can make it build up to any clerestory window or vent pattern I need.

I can cast one end and slice the rest of the roof into ribs to be skinned over allowing me to make a dupe of that end and several roofs from the single roof.

We do not have to have the originals if they are long out of production, and we need several of them. Heavily modded Athearn, AHM, or other extra roofs as master parts will work just as well.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:26 PM, john.allyn@... wrote:

>
>
> The Northeastern roof also has a clerestory section which seems a bit tall for a "modern" heavyweight car.
>
> John B. Allyn
>
>
>
> From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...>
> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:40:32 AM
> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs
>
>
> I'd stick with the screw. It has worked fine for me (no interiors). I'd paint the screw flat black so you can't see it through the windows, then when you want to take off the roof to show off your interior the screw won't be there anyway. Regards- Richard White
Group: vintageHO Message: 20789 From: ckinzer@att.net Date: 1/6/2013
Subject: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
Does anybody know anything about this A-B set of plated diesels just sold on ebay claimed to be Tenshodo?
 
 
The lights on the front are something I've never seen.  Also, the nose shape doesn't look like the usual Tenshodo diesels to me.
 
Chuck Kinzer
Group: vintageHO Message: 20790 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
I remember seeing an ad in a very old MR for a pair of diesels that looked like that, very similar to the Tenshodos... advertised by International. Could be them.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20791 From: Howard R Garner Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
> Does anybody know anything about this A-B set of plated diesels just sold on ebay claimed to be Tenshodo?
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200871500979?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
>
> The lights on the front are something I've never seen. Also, the nose shape doesn't look like the usual Tenshodo diesels to me.
>
> Chuck Kinzer
> Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (2) . Top ^
> 3b
> Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
> Mon Jan 7, 2013 5:10 am (PST) . Posted by:
> "MRLENGAL2U@..." stephenlengal
> I remember seeing an ad in a very old MR for a pair of diesels that looked like that, very similar to the Tenshodos... advertised by International. Could be them.

RMC for December 1955, page 32 & 33 has a good review of the
International line of F units. There is also an ad in the September
1954 RMC on page 58 (FT shown)

The ebay item B unit trucks do not match the photos in RMC.
The A unit should have a cast weight the resembles a diesel generator

Research from "Composite Product Review Index" by Keystone Central
Enterprises copyright 1982

Howard Garner
Group: vintageHO Message: 20792 From: Richard White Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
Cool! I'd like to see this! -Richard
 

To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: mwbauers55@...
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:57:24 -0600
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs

 
Someday, I want to show you how you can take a single manufactured roof and duplicate it in a few ways to make several as a result.

With variations on casting or vacuforming the ends and making use of the rest of the roof into construction ribs with a minor tweak, you can make dozens of hollow, detailed clerestory roofs if you need to.

At it's most basic, I can take 2/3's of the length of a manufactured roof and cast dozens of dupes to splice into whatever length I need for a particular car. With a simple mod to that section of commercial roof I can make it build up to any clerestory window or vent pattern I need.

I can cast one end and slice the rest of the roof into ribs to be skinned over allowing me to make a dupe of that end and several roofs from the single roof.

We do not have to have the originals if they are long out of production, and we need several of them. Heavily modded Athearn, AHM, or other extra roofs as master parts will work just as well.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA

On Jan 6, 2013, at 1:26 PM, john.allyn@... wrote:

>
>
> The Northeastern roof also has a clerestory section which seems a bit tall for a "modern" heavyweight car.
>
> John B. Allyn
>
>
>
> From: "Richard White" toytrain13@...>
> To: "Jim Heckard" vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:40:32 AM
> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Walthers Roofs
>
>
> I'd stick with the screw. It has worked fine for me (no interiors). I'd paint the screw flat black so you can't see it through the windows, then when you want to take off the roof to show off your interior the screw won't be there anyway. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO Message: 20793 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: F-units
Chuck,


I am very POOR at knowing Tenshodo from International ( IMP ). I
know the front light set up is wrong and added. The motor is not what I
call International and I believe the engines from ebay reworked in many
ways. The pictures of my engines I believe are IMP (but could be
Tenshodo ) Have a ball deciding.

Jim H
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20794 From: Carl Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: Walthers Roofs
STEVE--A few thoughts:

GENERAL
1. Everything said below is less important than the fact that it's your railroad--do what you want.

WOOD VS. PLASTIC
1. Most of the tinplate-side Walthers kits were "prototype" specific to the extent that each did actually represent a real car as found on several or many different railroads.
2. Walthers roofs (wood or plastic) were meant to represent non-AC cars. Walthers made accessory kits for the roof and underbody pieces. The plastic roof was introduced fairly "late" in the life of the cars and was intended to eliminate the necessity to shape and concour the wood roof. (LaBelle charges for this service today).
3. Some, but not all, of the prototype cars represented by Walthers kits received "betterment" roofs, the kind you describe that have a uniform curvature from side to side, and an end which is anywhere from flat (straight up and down) to compound rounded, as found on a Harriman car. Wood roofs of this latter variety will need to be "shaped" to represent a prototype roof.
4. A wood roof, as has been mentioned, will need to be "relieved" some to match to the sides. The plastic roof will not need this, but as you indicate, does not sit flat.

ATTACHMENT METHOD
1. Except for coaches, most cars represented by the kits will have a compartment which can "hide" some or all of the attachment screw. This compartment may have to be unlit, be not as detailed, and/or have a "fat" wall, but a single machine screw can be hidden or at least disguised.
2. Since the roof is plastic, a bar can be cemented into or across the inside of the roof, drilled and tapped on the underside at each end, and used to secure two screws, each of which is closer to the walls and therefore more easily hidden by paint. Obviously, new holes would need to be drilled in the floor.

Best Wishes--CARL

Carl G. Camann
Atlanta, Georgia

>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20795 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 1/7/2013
Subject: Re: F-units [4 Attachments]
Jim,
The F units in your pics look like the Tenshodos that passed
through my hands and shop in the 50's and 60s.

Jake Bechtel
Gadsden

On 1/7/13, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:
> Chuck,
>
>
> I am very POOR at knowing Tenshodo from International ( IMP ). I
> know the front light set up is wrong and added. The motor is not what I
> call International and I believe the engines from ebay reworked in many
> ways. The pictures of my engines I believe are IMP (but could be
> Tenshodo ) Have a ball deciding.
>
> Jim H
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20796 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/9/2013
Subject: Re: Unusual plated diesel sold on ebay
Hi Chuck,

I too have a feeling that the green marker lights may have been added. As
for it being a Tenshodo product, I don't know of them offering plated
models, although Jake mentions he's seen them. The only plated models that I'm
sure of being produced have been by Nickel Plate Products and a few other
later Japanese imports, but then I'm no expert on all brass manufacturers, so it
could be as Jake describes.

Much of what Tenshodo made, they've also distributed to IMP/Takara and New
One to sell (as has been already established here), but International never
offered any plated F-3's. IMP's GM EMD cab units were sold either as
unfinished brass kits or as factory assembled and finished (painted & lettered)
models in a small variety of up to ten different roadnames, depending on the
particular model -- FT, F-3, F-7 and F-9 -- and the year it was offered. So,
I'm sure we can rule out International (which brings into question
Tenshodo), although this is not to say that some modeler couldn't have sent his IMP
F-3 body out to get plated by an independent plater, albeit a bit far
fetched, however. None of my IMP catalogs or dealer sell-sheets show anything in
EMD cab units except for unpainted kits and factory painted and lettered
(but not plated) built up models, though.

Ray Wetzel</HTML>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20797 From: Jack Kelley Date: 1/9/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Brad,

Do you still have the metal drivered Athearn Pacific? Please let me know.

Thanks,
Jack Kelley
jkelley01938ATyahoo.com

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote:
>
> I have 2 Athearn Pacific's, new in the box, that I will never use. One
> plastic driver and one metal driver. Both B&M. One is a train set box.
> They are a much better looking loco than the Mantua and the B&M Historical
> Society published the article on upgrading it to a fine running model. They
> are not cheap however.
>
> Brad Smith
> Franklin, WI
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20798 From: vancampbell64 Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Athearn dual-drive parts.
Hello,

I'm looking for a single part for one of my Athearn Dual-Drive F-7s. The piece I'm looking for is the driven shaft inside the truck that drives the wheels, not the one in the gear tower driven from the universals. I've located several Dual-Drive mechanisms on e-Bay but I'd hate to have to cannibalize a working unit to acquire the one part. Anyone have one of these that I can take off their hands?

Thanks, Van.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20799 From: vancampbell64 Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear
That's interesting stuff! It's similar to how I repaired the drive gear in mine. However, I first put a drop of ACC in the crack and put a spring clamp in position to close the gap in the gear as the ACC set. I them put a 1/8" drill bit through the gear (a snug fit is all that is needed so as not to break the split open again) then put the bit into a GOOD drill press. I then milled down the arms of the gear approx. .014" will a fine tooth flat file. I cut two pieces of K&S Engineering Stock #105 Round Aluminum Tubing (7/32" x .014") approx. the length of the arms of the gear. The two pieces of tubing then press fit onto the arms of the gear and effectively return the gear to factory dimensions never to split again. As with Jim's repair, you will need to replace the drivers carefully, quartering them as usual. My switcher has a new lease on life and hope yours will too!

Van B. Campbell
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote:
>
>
>
> Dr Diggers, Jake B,
>
>
> I'm sending a number of pictures of a repaired 0-6-0 drive gear.
> By shaving the edges of the arms of the gear you can force brass washers
> on which will pull the split in the gear together without any glue.
> While I know I had some discussions on this site I also might have had
> some on another Yahoo site. I think I even made a drawing of the gear
> out of the saddle to show where to take edges down just enough to press
> the washers on.
>
> This is the last repaired one I have in my box so I'll be keeping
> it for my reference. Since I am not feeling to good I can't take on
> trying to make more any. Hope the pictures are a start to see what can
> be done.
>
> Don't forget to quarter the drivers and press in the gear in the
> right positions the first time.
>
> Jim H
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20800 From: lewis.ted16 Date: 1/20/2013
Subject: JC Silversides kits
Is anyone an avid collector of the JC Silversides kits? I have one to trade...in original box-"70' Penn. Combination Baggage Lounge" consists of wood floor and round roof and a square piece that might be a center sill, two cast ends with brass slotted screws,and two sheet metal sides with ten windows then a single window, the other side has twelve windows together. The baggage doors have a round window. Will trade for an Ulrich metal hopper or similar.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20801 From: cwrailman Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: The Best Power Tool Deal in Town

While many of you may already know this check out my 01/21/2013 Blog for info on what I think is a great deal on a useful power tool.  In addition, if you have an old Dremel hand held that has ceased to function I may have a remedy for it.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20802 From: river_dweller_ohio Date: 1/23/2013
Subject: FW:Hello!
Group: vintageHO Message: 20803 From: cwrailman Date: 1/26/2013
Subject: Re: The Best Power Tool Deal in Town

I received 16 emails from folks wondering how to revive their Dremel model 750 Mini Mite so I have posted a follow up blog Reviving a Dremel 750 Mini Mite with information on what I did for those who might be interested.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
>
>
> While many of you may already know this check out my 01/21/2013 Blog
> for info on what I think is a great deal on
> a useful power tool. In addition, if you have an old Dremel hand held
> that has ceased to function I may have a remedy for it.
>
> Denny
>
> Janitor in Training
>
> CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
>
> WEB site: CWRailman.com
> Facebook: CWRailman
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20804 From: cwrailman Date: 1/28/2013
Subject: Vintage Brass Gem Birdey Locomotive

If any of you have one of the vintage brass Gem Birdey locomotives, someone must have at least one in the closet, and you would like to improve it's operating characteristics, check out the Projects page to see the latest remotoring project to come out of the California Western Loco and Car Rebuild shops.  In the early 1960's, this Gem model was selling for $69.95 when other much larger and prototypically accurate models were selling for $39.95.

We now return you to our regular scheduled programming. 

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 

 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20805 From: RalphB Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "shawmut_fan" wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't make them anymore.
>
-------------
I got lucky and snagged a package of no. 4s on eBay last week. I wasn't looking for them specifically and just happened to see them. Now I have to go digging through my older cars to which ones still need these particular couplers. I'll get to that after I get my current projects done and off the work bench.

Ralph Balfoort
Group: vintageHO Message: 20806 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Varney Winning Bid
Attachments :
While sitting around here not feeling good I decided to buy a
missing Varney 60' Shorty passenger car I needed. Go to Buy It Now
number 300840462749 HO Scale Varney Special Streamliner. This is made
from wood and celluloid painted sides. This is the Obs from a 3 car
set, PA88. This was the only colors available. They were made 1949-1951.
This looks to be missing one truck.

I have a couple of these Observations but everyone has a bad body
with paint missing from the round end of the car. This one is in good
shape. Can't type more info with shaky fingers.

Jim H
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20807 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
According to the Kadee web site, they claim you should use the #148 whisker couplers and a #213 sleeve.  I don't think Kadee sells the sleeve by itself.  I think you need to buy the #213 box?  See the following.
Other than that, scour the train shows and eBay, just like we do looking for Central Valley passenger car trucks.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: Alpvalsys@...
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:31:47 +0000
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "shawmut_fan" wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't make them anymore.
>
-------------
I got lucky and snagged a package of no. 4s on eBay last week. I wasn't looking for them specifically and just happened to see them. Now I have to go digging through my older cars to which ones still need these particular couplers. I'll get to that after I get my current projects done and off the work bench.

Ralph Balfoort


Group: vintageHO Message: 20808 From: Howard R Garner Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: KaDee #4
If someone wants them, I have 6 pair.

Howard Garner
Pickens, SC
Group: vintageHO Message: 20809 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Winning Bid [1 Attachment]

Hello Jim,

 

On list, that looks to be in good shape, glad you got it.  Lets hope the truck is hiding in the package some where.

 

Take care,

 

Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

 


From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:40 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Winning Bid [1 Attachment]

 

 



While sitting around here not feeling good I decided to buy a
missing Varney 60' Shorty passenger car I needed. Go to Buy It Now
number 300840462749 HO Scale Varney Special Streamliner. This is made
from wood and celluloid painted sides. This is the Obs from a 3 car
set, PA88. This was the only colors available. They were made 1949-1951.
This looks to be missing one truck.

I have a couple of these Observations but everyone has a bad body
with paint missing from the round end of the car. This one is in good
shape. Can't type more info with shaky fingers.

Jim H

Group: vintageHO Message: 20810 From: erieberk Date: 1/29/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Winning Bid [1 Attachment]
Jim,

Nice find! -- Congrats, it looks mint. I don't have this set, and was
wondering about the colors of these cars. Spanagel doesn't illustrate them (in
his Varney Guide), but he describes the three car set -- the PA-33, PA-44
and PA-88 -- as being green and yellow with black stripes. On the other hand,
Varney doesn't give a color scheme for the PA-33 but describes (in the 1949
catalog) the PA-88 as green and yellow. However, he describes the PA-44
as: "It's black and yellow, like PA-33 and PA-88." You're probably even aware
of this, but it's sure a confusing conflict. As this was the only one you
were missing, in decent shape, I'm presuming Spanagel got it right in that
they're all green and yellow, as it sounds your PA-33 and PA-44 probably are
also. Best of luck with this new acquisition..

Ray F.W.

</HTML>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20811 From: shawmut_fan Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers

I haven't had any problem getting them on E Bay at a normal price.  I've also bought log car couplers on E Bay which are MKD-4's with a special box, again at a good price.  There are some cars -- those with open platforms of thin floors -- where an MKD-4 is the only way to go.  Besides the box looks better than any other box that they make.


 

John B. Allyn


From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:48:02 PM
Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 

According to the Kadee web site, they claim you should use the #148 whisker couplers and a #213 sleeve.  I don't think Kadee sells the sleeve by itself.  I think you need to buy the #213 box?  See the following.
Other than that, scour the train shows and eBay, just like we do looking for Central Valley passenger car trucks.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: Alpvalsys@...
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:31:47 +0000
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "shawmut_fan" wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't make them anymore.
>
-------------
I got lucky and snagged a package of no. 4s on eBay last week. I wasn't looking for them specifically and just happened to see them. Now I have to go digging through my older cars to which ones still need these particular couplers. I'll get to that after I get my current projects done and off the work bench.

Ralph Balfoort


Group: vintageHO Message: 20812 From: Jim Heckard Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: Varney Winning Bid
Ray F W

Can't type too much with shakey fingers.  PA 33/44/88 were all the same set. There all came in only one color. It was Green, Yellow with Black strips. Same type of paint job as the C&NW. The Baggage/Combine and Coach I have
were assembled and had some missing paint which I filled in the best I could.  The nicks were on the small side. The Obs looks mint and will be left untouched.

                                  Jim H



On 1/29/2013 8:32 PM, erieberk@... wrote:
 

Jim,

Nice find! -- Congrats, it looks mint. I don't have this set, and was
wondering about the colors of these cars. Spanagel doesn't illustrate them (in
his Varney Guide), but he describes the three car set -- the PA-33, PA-44
and PA-88 -- as being green and yellow with black stripes. On the other hand,
Varney doesn't give a color scheme for the PA-33 but describes (in the 1949
catalog) the PA-88 as green and yellow. However, he describes the PA-44
as: "It's black and yellow, like PA-33 and PA-88." You're probably even aware
of this, but it's sure a confusing conflict. As this was the only one you
were missing, in decent shape, I'm presuming Spanagel got it right in that
they're all green and yellow, as it sounds your PA-33 and PA-44 probably are
also. Best of luck with this new acquisition..

Ray F.W.



Group: vintageHO Message: 20813 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Yeah, I was quite disappointed that kadee dropped the MKD-4's, they had a really nice feel to them and the box had some detail to it as well.  I am guessing that Kadee wasn't selling enough of them to keep them in production?  Currently my stash is enough for 8 cars, but that can go pretty quick.  I tend to use them ONLY for specific cars, like some Ambroid kits and older MDC with a cast frame.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
CC: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
From: john.allyn@...
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:33:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 

I haven't had any problem getting them on E Bay at a normal price.  I've also bought log car couplers on E Bay which are MKD-4's with a special box, again at a good price.  There are some cars -- those with open platforms of thin floors -- where an MKD-4 is the only way to go.  Besides the box looks better than any other box that they make.

 
John B. Allyn


From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:48:02 PM
Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 

According to the Kadee web site, they claim you should use the #148 whisker couplers and a #213 sleeve.  I don't think Kadee sells the sleeve by itself.  I think you need to buy the #213 box?  See the following.
Other than that, scour the train shows and eBay, just like we do looking for Central Valley passenger car trucks.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: Alpvalsys@...
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:31:47 +0000
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "shawmut_fan" wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't make them anymore.
>
-------------
I got lucky and snagged a package of no. 4s on eBay last week. I wasn't looking for them specifically and just happened to see them. Now I have to go digging through my older cars to which ones still need these particular couplers. I'll get to that after I get my current projects done and off the work bench.

Ralph Balfoort




Group: vintageHO Message: 20814 From: Lon Walker Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: hey

hey have a look http://bit.ly/WQrg0N



Lon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20815 From: shawmut_fan Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
I'm doing the same thing, including taking them off of cars which don't need their special features. 

John B. Allyn


From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:57:08 AM
Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 

Yeah, I was quite disappointed that kadee dropped the MKD-4's, they had a really nice feel to them and the box had some detail to it as well.  I am guessing that Kadee wasn't selling enough of them to keep them in production?  Currently my stash is enough for 8 cars, but that can go pretty quick.  I tend to use them ONLY for specific cars, like some Ambroid kits and older MDC with a cast frame.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
CC: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
From: john.allyn@...
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:33:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 

I haven't had any problem getting them on E Bay at a normal price.  I've also bought log car couplers on E Bay which are MKD-4's with a special box, again at a good price.  There are some cars -- those with open platforms of thin floors -- where an MKD-4 is the only way to go.  Besides the box looks better than any other box that they make.

 
John B. Allyn


From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:48:02 PM
Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 

According to the Kadee web site, they claim you should use the #148 whisker couplers and a #213 sleeve.  I don't think Kadee sells the sleeve by itself.  I think you need to buy the #213 box?  See the following.
Other than that, scour the train shows and eBay, just like we do looking for Central Valley passenger car trucks.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: Alpvalsys@...
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:31:47 +0000
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MKD-4 couplers

 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "shawmut_fan" wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't make them anymore.
>
-------------
I got lucky and snagged a package of no. 4s on eBay last week. I wasn't looking for them specifically and just happened to see them. Now I have to go digging through my older cars to which ones still need these particular couplers. I'll get to that after I get my current projects done and off the work bench.

Ralph Balfoort




Group: vintageHO Message: 20816 From: Howard R Garner Date: 1/30/2013
Subject: Re: KaDee #4
>
> Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:29 am (PST) . Posted by:
> "Howard R Garner" earlyrail
> If someone wants them, I have 6 pair.
>
> Howard Garner
> Pickens, SC


They are on their way to a new home.

Howard Garner
Group: vintageHO Message: 20817 From: corlissbs Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: Funeral Sale?
I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine.  We bought HO kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby shopped together.  He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box Athearn, TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc.  He was going to build his dream layout next year when he would retire.  But he died of a heart attack instead.  Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600 kits that would give the woman a fair price?  I know that there are the Athearn collectors group, but don't know if they are looking for the older stuff or the new stuff.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 20818 From: Mike Bauers Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: New - Old find
Recently I got an interesting old era brass HO trolley body from eBay.

I was just examining it and was surprised to find that the roof is partly made from a tobacco can. The scribed siding is hand scribbed

It looks like it was built from scratch in the 50's or 60's and from what I can see of the lower body, it's never had a chassis or a power unit in her.

I thought you folks would find it to be interesting. I'll attach images.

I think I'll clean her up and think seriously about finishing her with stained glass windows and full lighting. I put it that way because I'm also thinking of using her as a 3d pattern to laser cut and complete that into a full model. At the least, she will be cleaned up, documented in photos and eventually displayed with the New Age versions of her.

Leaving her intact with the tobacco can sheet metal is just too tempting.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20819 From: Rick Jones Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
On 1/31/2013 6:17 PM, corlissbs@... wrote:
>
>
> I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine. We bought HO
> kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby
> shopped together. He never built his and now his widow has about 600
> blue box Athearn, TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of
> cars and locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc. He was going to
> build his dream layout next year when he would retire. But he died of a
> heart attack instead. Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600
> kits that would give the woman a fair price? I know that there are the
> Athearn collectors group, but don't know if they are looking for the
> older stuff or the new stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

$5 apiece for the Athearn and MDC kits, maybe a buck or two more for
the TM would be fair prices I think. Would get her a few grand if all of
them could be sold. No idea of the relative value of Rivarossi.
The problem, of course, is how to sell them. Online will take
forever, but a dealer or liquidator is just going to offer her a
pittance of their value in order to turn a high profit.

--

Rick Jones

I'm neither for nor against apathy.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20820 From: Matt Martin Date: 1/31/2013
Subject: FS: Freight Cars (Atlas, Walthers, Red Caboose)
Evening group,

Still in the process of thinning out the herd. All of these freight cars are new in box unless otherwise noted:

Accurail:

Illinois Railway Museum AAR 40' Steel Box - IRM #970001 - $5

Atlas:

(1959-4) Wabash ACF 6 Bay Cylindrical Hopper - WAB #33023 - $8

Con-Cor:

Paradise & Pacific (McCormick Railroad Park Scottsdale, AZ) 54ft. gondola kit - P&P #5005 - $5

Red Caboose:

(RC-8047-2) Illinois Terminal 40' AAR Steel Box - IT #6014 - $10

Walthers (RTR):

(932-23688) ADM Milling 50' Airslide Hopper 2-Pack - ADMX #53002, 53075 - $20
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-23688

Walthers (Kits):

(932-9106) ADM PS-2 Covered Hopper 4427 3-Pack - TLDX #3109, 3114, 3124 - $18
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9106

(932-4812) 89' Autorack Santa Fe - TTGX #912148 - $10
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-4812

(932-4952) 89' F89F TOFC Flat TTX Twin 45 - KTTX #930363 - $8
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-4952

Other:

Con-Cor Model Railroader 60th Anniversary 18 wheeler - $3

I accept PayPal (preferred), MO, and checks (must wait to clear before shipment).

If you have any questions or inquiries about these items please send me an email offlist at bnsf5264@...
Thank you!

Matt Martin
Phoenix, AZ



Group: vintageHO Message: 20821 From: Steven D Johnson Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?

Brad,

 

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. 

 

In several similar circumstances around here, I have seen many collections sold at model train shows, mostly the locally-produced ones.  Sometimes a friend or relative will rent a few tables to sell the items.  Some clubs that sponsor the shows have a “company store” set up where their members man the tables and sell items that that are brought in, usually for a small fee.  The club here in Nashville does that for 10 per cent of the sales price. 

 

Just a couple of ideas for you.

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN 

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of corlissbs@...
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:17 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Funeral Sale?

 

 

I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine.  We bought HO kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby shopped together.  He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box Athearn, TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc.  He was going to build his dream layout next year when he would retire.  But he died of a heart attack instead.  Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600 kits that would give the woman a fair price?  I know that there are the Athearn collectors group, but don't know if they are looking for the older stuff or the new stuff.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Brad Smith

Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO Message: 20822 From: luvprr2003 Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Again, folks, as I've been preaching for some time now, try to give your surviving spouse an idea as to where your stuff can go if you pass. Leaving it up to he/she to do so "cold turkey" is not a very nice way to ensure the most fond memories of you, and often adds more to an already huge burden in many cases. Gotta bite the bullet. . .
 
In a message dated 2/1/2013 2:16:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tenncentralrwy@... writes:


Brad,

 

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. 

 

In several similar circumstances around here, I have seen many collections sold at model train shows, mostly the locally-produced ones.  Sometimes a friend or relative will rent a few tables to sell the items.  Some clubs that sponsor the shows have a “company store” set up where their members man the tables and sell items that that are brought in, usually for a small fee.  The club here in Nashville does that for 10 per cent of the sales price. 

 

Just a couple of ideas for you.

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN 

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of corlissbs@...
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:17 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Funeral Sale?

 

 

I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine.  We bought HO kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby shopped together.  He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box Athearn , TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc.  He was going to build his dream layout next year when he would retire.  But he died of a heart attack instead.  Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600 kits that would give the woman a fair price?  I know that there are the Athearn collectors group, but don't know if they are looking for the older stuff or the new stuff.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Brad Smith

Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO Message: 20823 From: CinderCrusher Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Brad,

You might try checking with your local division of the NMRA. Our local division has done that a couple of times. They have taken a deceased person's collection and have displayed it at the monthly meetings with prices posted on each piece. It might take many months to a couple of years to sell it all. Usually the left overs at the end receive reducing prices until gone.

If you don't know of the local NMRA division try asking at a local hobby shop as to how to contact them, or better yet attend a meeting as a guest and state your case at the meeting. Our meetings are very receptive to guests, so I presume they all are.

If you go this route expect to reimburse the division a small percentage of the sales received for their work. It isn't easy to haul a large collection to the meeting every month, but we have one member who is in charge of the "company store" and who does this as a volunteer.

Bill DeFoe

-
>
>
> I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine. We bought HO
> kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby
> shopped together. He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box
> Athearn , TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and
> locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc. He was going to build his dream
> layout next year when he would retire. But he died of a heart attack
> instead. Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600 kits that would give
> the woman a fair price? I know that there are the Athearn collectors group,
> but don't know if they are looking for the older stuff or the new stuff.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Brad Smith
>
> Franklin, WI
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20824 From: RalphB Date: 2/1/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Take a table at a model railroad show. Price a bit high, but be ready to negotiate down - considerably. Get a couple of friends to work the table, people who knew the hobbyist and know what's for sale. I've picked up some bargains at these tables, but it might take two or three (or more) shows before the collection is whittled down to where the survivors will take a bulk offer from a re-seller.

Ralph Balfoort

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote:
>
> I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine. We bought HO
> kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby shopped
> together. He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box
> Athearn, TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and
> locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc. He was going to build his dream
> layout next year when he would retire. But he died of a heart attack instead.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20825 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Instructions needed for MRC SOUND MASTER 210 SOUND MACHINE
Attachments :
Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone has access to a set of instructions for a MRC
Sound Master 210 Sound system.

I could really use a PDF copy, but would take any copy someone is willing to send me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks.
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20826 From: cwrailman Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?

If I may add to this suggestion that you establish and maintain an inventory of all items especially motive power and expensive rolling stock and if at all possible apply values to all the items.  An electronic copy of this should be stored off site in either a safety deposit box or with a trusted friend.  Small items such as nuts and bolts do add up but can be accounted for in a bulk calculation.  Some years back I did an inventory and found I had over $600 in just window and door castings in my inventory.  About 65% of those were still in packages and the others had been broken open and were stored in bulk in parts drawers.  I did not list these individually but placed an approximate replacement value for them into my inventory sheet.  By the way, this is also necessary in case you have a fire or theft.  No insurance agent is going to believe that you had $10,000-$100,000 worth of train stuff.  Thirty bottles of Floquil paint at current replacement value of $5 per bottle adds up to $150.   Start adding up your financial investment and you will be surprised at how much you have. 

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote:
>
> Again, folks, as I've been preaching for some time now, try to give your
> surviving spouse an idea as to where your stuff can go if you pass. Leaving
> it up to he/she to do so "cold turkey" is not a very nice way to ensure the
> most fond memories of you, and often adds more to an already huge burden in
> many cases. Gotta bite the bullet. . .
>
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2013 2:16:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> tenncentralrwy@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Brad,
> Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.
> In several similar circumstances around here, I have seen many collections
> sold at model train shows, mostly the locally-produced ones. Sometimes a
> friend or relative will rent a few tables to sell the items. Some clubs
> that sponsor the shows have a “company store” set up where their members man
> the tables and sell items that that are brought in, usually for a small
> fee. The club here in Nashville does that for 10 per cent of the sales
> price.
> Just a couple of ideas for you.
> Steve Johnson
> Nashville, TN
>
>
> From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of corlissbs@...
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:17 PM
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vintageHO] Funeral Sale?
>
>
>
>
>
> I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine. We bought HO
> kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby
> shopped together. He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box
> Athearn , TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and
> locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc. He was going to build his dream
> layout next year when he would retire. But he died of a heart attack
> instead. Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600 kits that would give
> the woman a fair price? I know that there are the Athearn collectors group,
> but don't know if they are looking for the older stuff or the new stuff.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Brad Smith
>
> Franklin, WI
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20827 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: An interview and easy tutorial
Learn how a veteran model builder has made his models from wood and layered card since the 40's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpQ1PJnYig

He believes he has made 5,000 models over time..........

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
Group: vintageHO Message: 20828 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: Won't ship to USA...
lI'm running across more and more eBay postings that state they won't ship to the USA.

Anyone know why??


Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO Message: 20829 From: corlissbs Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Probably for the same reason that many US dealers won't ship overseas.  The Europeans are famous for saying that the item didn't arrive.  There is no way to track the shipment.  Then Paypal takes the full amount back from the seller.  Sellers don't have that trouble with Japanese buyers.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin, WI
 
 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20830 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
While I haven't done business on eBay in a long time (As one of the things I do professionally is build small business websites for those wanting off eBay, I figured I should set the example), I do know that some places are almost famous for packages not arriving. Italy comes to mind rather quickly.

The US Postal Service's crummy tracking system, pretty much nonexistent for international packages, doesn't help matters.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Mon, 2/4/13, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote:

From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won't ship to USA...
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 4, 2013, 7:07 AM

 

Probably for the same reason that many US dealers won't ship overseas.  The Europeans are famous for saying that the item didn't arrive.  There is no way to track the shipment.  Then Paypal takes the full amount back from the seller.  Sellers don't have that trouble with Japanese buyers.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin, WI
 
 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20831 From: corlissbs Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
The new Ebay thing is to put Delivery Confirmation on everything.  My wife sold a group of items to a Norwegian who said the stuff was damaged so he wanted to keep the items and get his money back.  It took her several hours to fight that one.
 
She recently bought an item off Ebay but it was never delivered-anywhere.  Been close to a month, now.  The tracking stops at a Post Office in Illinois.  Ebay gave her money back, which they took from the seller.  I have never had a bad Ebay experience and I do buy a lot of train related stuff.  But there are Ebay horror stories.
 
One of the new scams is that if one has a certain item that is broke, he buys the exact item and then when he gets it, takes the good one and then says the item is broken and returns it for a full refund.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin,WI
 
 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20832 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
With model trains, I only had one bad experience as a seller. Dealing in older PC parts, on the other hand, too many to list. Had a bunch of older nVidia Riva 128 video cards I was selling. Made it clear these are old cards, that the 128 does NOT indicate video memory size. Despite being clear about the cards, some dummy still bought them then claimed they were not as advertised. At least PayPal ruled in my favor.

On the other hand, I have overall had very good experienced as a buyer and seller of model trains. One fellow, an N scale modeler, now buys things from me direct. Mostly stuff like trucks and small parts.

Plus, with the old 78 RPM records I play, there is a fellow not too far from here that sells them. One time, he was passing by Waukegan on his way to Wisconsin, and stopped by my shop, and hand delivered the records. These are old shellac records, from the days before vinyl. Paid him cash, everyone was happy.

I'm afraid eBay is like the old gray mare: "Ain't what she used to be".

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Mon, 2/4/13, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote:

From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won't ship to USA...
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 4, 2013, 7:21 AM

 

The new Ebay thing is to put Delivery Confirmation on everything.  My wife sold a group of items to a Norwegian who said the stuff was damaged so he wanted to keep the items and get his money back.  It took her several hours to fight that one.
 
She recently bought an item off Ebay but it was never delivered-anywhere.  Been close to a month, now.  The tracking stops at a Post Office in Illinois.  Ebay gave her money back, which they took from the seller.  I have never had a bad Ebay experience and I do buy a lot of train related stuff.  But there are Ebay horror stories.
 
One of the new scams is that if one has a certain item that is broke, he buys the exact item and then when he gets it, takes the good one and then says the item is broken and returns it for a full refund.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin,WI
 
 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20833 From: cwrailman Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...

My perspective as a seller occassionally selling to someone over seas.  There are many reasons.  First it is much more costly for just the shipping and even if the buyer pays the extra, it takes more time to fill out all the forms which themselves seem to change periodically and I never know if I have the correct form.  In addition some shipping services, such as the one I normally use because it is close to home, will not except foreign packages so I have to go to the terminal. O r in my case the main post office.  In addition Pay Pal charges more for handling overseas financial transactions depending on the country.  That is not a constant like it is when I sell to someone in the US .  Since many sellers are working on a really tight profit margin some just don't bother with over seas sales.      

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
>
> lI'm running across more and more eBay postings that state they won't ship to the USA.
>
> Anyone know why??
>
>
> Mike Bauers
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20834 From: Mr. Common Sense Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Hello there Denny and other model railroaders:
I have gotten more than several small packages from abroad (phono cartridges, l.e.d.s, and such) with little problem... England, China, and Canada mostly. In fact, the reason I purchased from foreign sources was the product cost and reasonable shipping.
What really drives me crazy is the sometimes high shipping costs from American sellers. It doesn't cost $10 or more for USPS mailing of a couple of ounces no matter how much bubble wrap is used. Much of the profit, it seems, is in the shipping no matter what the winning bid is. A friend that sells a lot on e-bay complains about the same thing. What he does is make the minimum bid high enough, and then makes a reasonable shipping charge wich includes packing, etc.
Thanks for your consideration.





--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
>
>
> My perspective as a seller occassionally selling to someone over seas.
> There are many reasons. First it is much more costly for just the
> shipping and even if the buyer pays the extra, it takes more time to
> fill out all the forms which themselves seem to change periodically and
> I never know if I have the correct form. In addition some shipping
> services, such as the one I normally use because it is close to home,
> will not except foreign packages so I have to go to the terminal. Or in
> my case the main post office. In addition Pay Pal charges more for
> handling overseas financial transactions depending on the country. That
> is not a constant like it is when I sell to someone in the US. Since
> many sellers are working on a really tight profit margin some just
> don't bother with over seas sales.
>
> Denny
>
> Janitor in Training
>
> CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
>
> WEB site: CWRailman.com
> Facebook: CWRailman
>
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
> >
> > lI'm running across more and more eBay postings that state they won't
> ship to the USA.
> >
> > Anyone know why??
> >
> >
> > Mike Bauers
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20835 From: dwaite2000 Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to US
Hello All,

I have been shipping items overseas (mostly the UK, OZ and Canada) for
many years. The PO requirements are arcane to say the
least and it is sometimes difficult to tell ahead of time what the cost
will be. Selling on eBay only makes it worse as they require you
to quote a shipping cost when you have no idea where it's going or how
much someone may buy and what the package will weigh.

On Jan. 27th all US postal rates went up. Some overseas rates as much as
40%! I don't know if sending to the US rates also went up.

Dick Waite
Group: vintageHO Message: 20836 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Funeral Sale?
Here!! Here!! Denny!!

It often astonishes me! Especially after a profitable week of selling stuff and I see how little is actually going out the door, when compared to what I have in boxes or on shelves.  All those little pieces for sure add up and can become a great deal. 

It surprised the heck out of my accountant for sure!  

Sean 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 2, 2013, at 1:43 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:

 

If I may add to this suggestion that you establish and maintain an inventory of all items especially motive power and expensive rolling stock and if at all possible apply values to all the items.  An electronic copy of this should be stored off site in either a safety deposit box or with a trusted friend.  Small items such as nuts and bolts do add up but can be accounted for in a bulk calculation.  Some years back I did an inventory and found I had over $600 in just window and door castings in my inventory.  About 65% of those were still in packages and the others had been broken open and were stored in bulk in parts drawers.  I did not list these individually but placed an approximate replacement value for them into my inventory sheet.  By the way, this is also necessary in case you have a fire or theft.  No insurance agent is going to believe that you had $10,000-$100,000 worth of train stuff.  Thirty bottles of Floquil paint at current replacement value of $5 per bottle adds up to $150.   Start adding up your financial investment and you will be surprised at how much you have. 

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote:
>
> Again, folks, as I've been preaching for some time now, try to give your
> surviving spouse an idea as to where your stuff can go if you pass. Leaving
> it up to he/she to do so "cold turkey" is not a very nice way to ensure the
> most fond memories of you, and often adds more to an already huge burden in
> many cases. Gotta bite the bullet. . .
>
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2013 2:16:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> tenncentralrwy@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Brad,
> Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.
> In several similar circumstances around here, I have seen many collections
> sold at model train shows, mostly the locally-produced ones. Sometimes a
> friend or relative will rent a few tables to sell the items. Some clubs
> that sponsor the shows have a “company store” set up where their members man
> the tables and sell items that that are brought in, usually for a small
> fee. The club here in Nashville does that for 10 per cent of the sales
> price.
> Just a couple of ideas for you.
> Steve Johnson
> Nashville, TN
>
>
> From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of corlissbs@...
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:17 PM
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vintageHO] Funeral Sale?
>
>
>
>
>
> I just returned from the funeral of a good friend of mine. We bought HO
> kits together for many years, starting in the early 1970's and hobby
> shopped together. He never built his and now his widow has about 600 blue box
> Athearn , TM of Calif., TM of IL, MDC, and other plastic kits of cars and
> locomotives, along with RTR Rivarossi, etc. He was going to build his dream
> layout next year when he would retire. But he died of a heart attack
> instead. Do any of you have any idea what to do with 600 kits that would give
> the woman a fair price? I know that there are the Athearn collectors group,
> but don't know if they are looking for the older stuff or the new stuff.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Brad Smith
>
> Franklin, WI
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20837 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Instructions needed for MRC SOUND MASTER 210 SOUND MACHINE [1 At
Hi all!

Thank you to anyone that looked for a set of these instructions for me. A PDF file of them has been emailed to me!

Thank you! 
Sean 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 2, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

 

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone has access to a set of instructions for a MRC
Sound Master 210 Sound system.

I could really use a PDF copy, but would take any copy someone is willing to send me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks.
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO Message: 20838 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Steve,

The USPS is domestic US and therefore cannot track internationally. It is dependent upon the foreign postal service to provide the tracking info. Some do, some clearly do not.

Walter in Anguilla

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
 

While I haven't done business on eBay in a long time (As one of the things I do professionally is build small business websites for those wanting off eBay, I figured I should set the example), I do know that some places are almost famous for packages not arriving. Italy comes to mind rather quickly.

The US Postal Service's crummy tracking system, pretty much nonexistent for international packages, doesn't help matters.

-Steve Neubaum


Group: vintageHO Message: 20839 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Walter,

Correct, as the serial number on the customs form can be plugged into USPS's website and at least show when the package has left the USA, at minimum. Some countries can report back that it is in their hands too, but some can't do that.

-Steve

--- On Tue, 2/5/13, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won't ship to USA...
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013, 2:17 PM

 

Steve,


The USPS is domestic US and therefore cannot track internationally. It is dependent upon the foreign postal service to provide the tracking info. Some do, some clearly do not.

Walter in Anguilla

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
 

While I haven't done business on eBay in a long time (As one of the things I do professionally is build small business websites for those wanting off eBay, I figured I should set the example), I do know that some places are almost famous for packages not arriving. Italy comes to mind rather quickly.

The US Postal Service's crummy tracking system, pretty much nonexistent for international packages, doesn't help matters.

-Steve Neubaum


Group: vintageHO Message: 20840 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Hi guys!

I've noticed lately a pretty sharp increase in my international sales of vintage HO trains and parts. It used to be I would average 1-2% of my packages going outside of the US. Lately however, it seems I've been averaging between 6-7 or more international packages for every ~50 packages I ship.ately, I have seen large surge in shipments going to South American countries like Chili and Brazil. In fact, one buyer purchased an engine on eBay from me and then purchased two more additional pieces off-eBay. It's almost like these guys are telling their friends.  

Not sure why. I can say the only problem I have with selling internationally is that it usually means the item did not sell very high and there was money left on the table, but US buyers were not willing to spend it. It's not a big enough problem to make me want to stop selling to them though. Funny part is.. I have a couple guys who buy a bunch of stuff, but pay only for the item and ten once every couple months, I send them an invoice for the shipping of one large box and then they receive all their items at once. Seems to work well for both of us. 

Either way, I still offer sales of these vintage pieces internationally. I have stopped shipping to Mexico and Italy however. Mexico postal system is too corrupt and buyers often never receive items. The Italian postal system, if not corrupt, is terribly inefficient. Germany has of late been ok and I've had no problems, but only last year, I had a few packages in a row delayed quite extensively. This was frustrating. 

I do offer things for sale to Italy periodically however. But I insist on Priority shipping only. However, there are a few buyers who I have dealt with several times with in the past and have had no problems, even with the delays. I extend the offer of First Class Int. shipping to these fellows and as it turns out, they are usually the ones who end up buying my items. As in the case with my most recent listing of a very nice condition Rivarossi 4-4-2. 

Since he and I have had several dealings outside of eBay as well, I have no fear there will be any problems with this transaction as well. I'm one of the few he trusts as a source of these vintage Rivarossi parts here in the USA and thusly I and sure he does not wish to lose that source. 

As for the rest of my listings... I block Italy and Mexico completely through the  eBay system from bidding at all. 

As for the International labeling and shipping process... I do it all on line and through eBay and PayPal. It is quick, easy and in addition to the standard domestic label process, it requires only the added individual weight info and a check box on one additional web page before printing the label. After it prints, I sign and day it and that is it. It gets picked up at my door with the rest of the outgoing mail. The only time I have to go to the post office is when a purchase is made outside of eBay by someone. The USPS website does not allow the printing of First Class Int. postage on their site (or even through Papal's Multi-order shipping process.). I do find this frustrating because you can ship F C I through the eBay shipping process. It seems to me, if it can be done there, it should be able to be done elsewhere, either through the PayPal site or USPS website. Either way, I have had little to no problems with international buyers. 

As for buying internationally.... I have only done it twice. Once from the UK and once from Canada. The UK purchase was of a Ulrich SCHLITZ beer truck in awesome shape. Including shipping it was $28. So I thought it was worth the risk. The second was this rather sleazy gent in Canada. His listing was for 15 pounds of vintage HO parts.  His listing showed half a dozen or more kind of fuzzy pictures of several closed boxes w/ Marklin labels and bags filled with what looked like drivers and wheel sets. I bid and paid almost $500 for the lot. When it finally came... It was a couple bags of the wheel inners with no treads and the rest was just what i would call "hardware"... Nuts bolts & screws.   14.5 pounds worth!  The actual "parts" comprised of less than half a pound. Needless to say, I was pissed. There was not a single reference to nuts bolts or screws or even a single photo of one in the listing. Granted, they were all for Marklin trains, but without knowing what they would be used for, they were useless to me. 

It took about two months, several phone calls and two attempts of returning the package before I was finally successful. He kept refusing the package. Finally, with the customs and UPS agents as my whiteness' I went to eBay / PayPal with my return acceptance refusal dilemma and they issued my full refund anyway. I lost ~$100 on the deal and about 6 hours or more in cumulative dealings with the arse. 

He even went so far as to buy (but not pay) something off of me, just to leave me a negative feedback. Well... Once he did this, I informed eBay and it was removed and he was suspended. 

So I think that is my take on the international buying and selling... I'll keep selling to the rest of the world, but I don't even look outside of the USA to buy anymore. 

Hope everyone is doing well!
Sean

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:56 AM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:

 

My perspective as a seller occassionally selling to someone over seas.  There are many reasons.  First it is much more costly for just the shipping and even if the buyer pays the extra, it takes more time to fill out all the forms which themselves seem to change periodically and I never know if I have the correct form.  In addition some shipping services, such as the one I normally use because it is close to home, will not except foreign packages so I have to go to the terminal. O r in my case the main post office.  In addition Pay Pal charges more for handling overseas financial transactions depending on the country.  That is not a constant like it is when I sell to someone in the US .  Since many sellers are working on a really tight profit margin some just don't bother with over seas sales.      

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
>
> lI'm running across more and more eBay postings that state they won't ship to the USA.
>
> Anyone know why??
>
>
> Mike Bauers
> Sent from my iPhone
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20841 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to US
Hi all!

It seems to me that postage to Canada almost doubled!  It used to be I could send a package that weighs 2-3 ounces for under $4.  Now it is almost $7 for a 2 ounce package.  

I was floored this last weekend when I went to print the label. Since the item ended a day or so before the 27th, the eBay  calculated postage rate he paid was almost half what I had to pay. Since I have been laid up for almost 3 weeks now, I did not know about the Postal Rate Increase. I ws also surprised to see they did away with Parcel Post and my ability to print a label for it on line. I was quite frustrated by this since I had one 5 lb package going to Arizona and was not prepared to spend $20+ to ship it there.  

Sean

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2013, at 7:13 PM, acace@... wrote:

 

Hello All,

I have been shipping items overseas (mostly the UK, OZ and Canada) for
many years. The PO requirements are arcane to say the
least and it is sometimes difficult to tell ahead of time what the cost
will be. Selling on eBay only makes it worse as they require you
to quote a shipping cost when you have no idea where it's going or how
much someone may buy and what the package will weigh.

On Jan. 27th all US postal rates went up. Some overseas rates as much as
40%! I don't know if sending to the US rates also went up.

Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO Message: 20842 From: reed.estabrook Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Re: Won't ship to USA...
Hi All -

Sean's great note says it well! I have been dealing on eBay for about
15 years and have seen a lot - my worst problems have been with
Australia, although I have some great customers there, as well. PayPal
has made it better by far, but eBay keeps getting worse re shipping by
forcing you to give a one covers all shipping charge. I always give
customer the Custom Label #, so they have at least something to check
with.

Reed


---- Original Message ----
From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 6, 2013 1:50 am
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Won't ship to USA...






Hi guys!


I've noticed lately a pretty sharp increase in my international sales
of vintage HO trains and parts. It used to be I would average 1-2% of
my packages going outside of the US. Lately however, it seems I've been
averaging between 6-7 or more international packages for every ~50
packages I ship.ately, I have seen large surge in shipments going to
South American countries like Chili and Brazil. In fact, one buyer
purchased an engine on eBay from me and then purchased two more
additional pieces off-eBay. It's almost like these guys are telling
their friends.  


Not sure why. I can say the only problem I have with selling
internationally is that it usually means the item did not sell very
high and there was money left on the table, but US buyers were not
willing to spend it. It's not a big enough problem to make me want to
stop selling to them though. Funny part is.. I have a couple guys who
buy a bunch of stuff, but pay only for the item and ten once every
couple months, I send them an invoice for the shipping of one large box
and then they receive all their items at once. Seems to work well for
both of us. 


Either way, I still offer sales of these vintage pieces
internationally. I have stopped shipping to Mexico and Italy however.
Mexico postal system is too corrupt and buyers often never receive
items. The Italian postal system, if not corrupt, is terribly
inefficient. Germany has of late been ok and I've had no problems, but
only last year, I had a few packages in a row delayed quite
extensively. This was frustrating. 


I do offer things for sale to Italy periodically however. But I insist
on Priority shipping only. However, there are a few buyers who I have
dealt with several times with in the past and have had no problems,
even with the delays. I extend the offer of First Class Int. shipping
to these fellows a nd as it turns out, they are usually the ones who
end up buying my items. As in the case with my most recent listing of a
very nice condition Rivarossi 4-4-2. 


Since he and I have had several dealings outside of eBay as well, I
have no fear there will be any problems with this transaction as well.
I'm one of the few he trusts as a source of these vintage Rivarossi
parts here in the USA and thusly I and sure he does not wish to lose
that source. 


As for the rest of my listings... I block Italy and Mexico completely
through the  eBay system from bidding at all. 


As for the International labeling and shipping process... I do it all
on line and through eBay and PayPal. It is quick, easy and in addition
to the standard domestic label process, it requires only the added
individual weight info and a check box on one additional web page
before printing the label. After it prints, I sign an d day it and that
is it. It gets picked up at my door with the rest of the outgoing mail.
The only time I have to go to the post office is when a purchase is
made outside of eBay by someone. The USPS website does not allow the
printing of First Class Int. postage on their site (or even through
Papal's Multi-order shipping process.). I do find this frustrating
because you can ship F C I through the eBay shipping process. It seems
to me, if it can be done there, it should be able to be done elsewhere,
either through the PayPal site or USPS website. Either way, I have had
little to no problems with international buyers. 


As for buying internationally.... I have only done it twice. Once from
the UK and once from Canada. The UK purchase was of a Ulrich SCHLITZ
beer truck in awesome shape. Including shipping it was $28. So I
thought it was worth the risk. The second was this rather sleazy gent
in Canada. His listing was for 15 pounds of vintage HO par ts.  His
listing showed half a dozen or more kind of fuzzy pictures of several
closed boxes w/ Marklin labels and bags filled with what looked like
drivers and wheel sets. I bid and paid almost $500 for the lot. When it
finally came... It was a couple bags of the wheel inners with no treads
and the rest was just what i would call "hardware"... Nuts bolts &
screws.   14.5 pounds worth!  The actual "parts" comprised of less than
half a pound. Needless to say, I was pissed. There was not a single
reference to nuts bolts or screws or even a single photo of one in the
listing. Granted, they were all for Marklin trains, but without knowing
what they would be used for, they were useless to me. 


It took about two months, several phone calls and two attempts of
returning the package before I was finally successful. He kept refusing
the package. Finally, with the customs and UPS agents as my whiteness'
I went to eBay / PayPal with my re turn acceptance refusal dilemma and
they issued my full refund anyway. I lost ~$100 on the deal and about 6
hours or more in cumulative dealings with the arse. 


He even went so far as to buy (but not pay) something off of me, just
to leave me a negative feedback. Well... Once he did this, I informed
eBay and it was removed and he was suspended. 


So I think that is my take on the international buying and selling...
I'll keep selling to the rest of the world, but I don't even look
outside of the USA to buy anymore. 


Hope everyone is doing well!
Sean

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:56 AM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:



 


My perspective as a seller occassionally selling to someone over seas. 
There are many reasons.  First it is much more costly for just the
shipping and even if the buyer pays the extra, it takes more time to
fill out all the forms which themselves seem to change periodically and
I never know if I have the correct form.  In addition some shipping
services, such as the one I normally use because it is close to home,
will not except foreign packages so I have to go to the terminal. Or in
my case the main post office.  In addition Pay Pal charges more for
handling overseas financial transactions depending on the country. 
That is not a constant like it is when I sell to someone in the US.
 Since many sellers are working on a really tight profit margin some
just don't bothe r with over seas sales.      
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: CWRailman.com 
Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
>
> lI'm running across more and more eBay postings that state they won't
ship to the USA.
>
> Anyone know why??
>
>
> Mike Bauers
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20843 From: johnhutnick Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Walthers MU
I have a Walthers MU Coach kit, unused, Long Island, #7522, arch roof. Has roof, floor, sides, ends, castings bag, good original box, instructions dated 1949. Did not come with power. $25 + shipping. If interested, contact me off list.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20844 From: cwrailman Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Running trains in Dual DC/DCC mode

I apologize for using the term DCC on this board however stay with me on this. 

For those of us who enjoy running vintage models DC is the most popular method of powering our trains.  However sometimes, go ahead you can admit to this, we would like to enjoy the benefits of having sound enhance our operating experience.  Some of us have either purchased sound equipped locomotives or have considered doing so however we have a large investment in DC equipment and even the suggestion of making a complete conversion to DCC is kin to blasphemy.  Check out my 02/06/2013 Blog for a relatively inexpensive system that allows you to have your cake and ….  Well, you get the point.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20845 From: river_dweller_ohio Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20846 From: Carl Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Hello--Just received an Athearn litho printed metal side Fruit Growers Express reefer with an instruction sheet copyright 1949. This particular model appears in neither the 1948 nor 1952 catalogs shown in the Links portion of the group. My initial conclusion is that it was offered for, at most, three years (1949-51).

The paint scheme used on the model is "dead on" the prototype through early 1949. Although the prototype scheme was modified twice between late 1949 and late 1951, neither change would have necessarily required that the model sides be reprinted (with door hardware, grabs, and ladders separate, the only side change would have been to repaint the kick plate under the door, which could have been easily accomplished by the modeler).

Since I know next to nothing about Uncle Irv's metal offerings, I'd appreciate your insights and information about this model and why it's production may have ceased so soon (i.e.--shortage of war-critical materials, poor sales, etc.???).

Thanks, in advance, for any information and insights.

Best Wishes--Carl

Carl G. Camann
Atlanta, GA
Group: vintageHO Message: 20847 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: Latest Find
I picked up an FSM Ezra Cooper's Garage yesterday at one of the
LHSs. It was on consignment for just $75. Quite a surprise when they're
going for between $150-275 at dealers online. And, yes, it appears
everything is there.
One question: on the box end it just says "Cooper's Garage", no
"Ezra's." Were they all labeled this way?

--

Rick Jones

"They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them."
-Stephen Wright
Group: vintageHO Message: 20848 From: cwrailman Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: Re: Latest Find

The actual name of the kit is Ezra Coopers Garage.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones wrote:
>
> I picked up an FSM Ezra Cooper's Garage yesterday at one of the
> LHSs. It was on consignment for just $75. Quite a surprise when they're
> going for between $150-275 at dealers online. And, yes, it appears
> everything is there.
> One question: on the box end it just says "Cooper's Garage", no
> "Ezra's." Were they all labeled this way?
>
> --
>
> Rick Jones
>
> "They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them."
> -Stephen Wright
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20849 From: rxensen Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
My Greensburg guide to Athearn lists these
Fruit Growers Express as FDEX #9200,9222,0226,9227,9236,9245,9250,9252,9253,9254,9255,9257,9259,9262,9272,
9277. listing it as A-404. A 1950 date,
Ron Christensen

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" wrote:
>
> Hello--Just received an Athearn litho printed metal side Fruit Growers Express reefer with an instruction sheet copyright 1949. This particular model appears in neither the 1948 nor 1952 catalogs shown in the Links portion of the group. My initial conclusion is that it was offered for, at most, three years (1949-51).
>
> The paint scheme used on the model is "dead on" the prototype through early 1949. Although the prototype scheme was modified twice between late 1949 and late 1951, neither change would have necessarily required that the model sides be reprinted (with door hardware, grabs, and ladders separate, the only side change would have been to repaint the kick plate under the door, which could have been easily accomplished by the modeler).
>
> Since I know next to nothing about Uncle Irv's metal offerings, I'd appreciate your insights and information about this model and why it's production may have ceased so soon (i.e.--shortage of war-critical materials, poor sales, etc.???).
>
> Thanks, in advance, for any information and insights.
>
> Best Wishes--Carl
>
> Carl G. Camann
> Atlanta, GA
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20850 From: erieberk Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Carl,

In going to the links portion of this Group, I find no listing for Athearn catalogs (or any other listing for catalogs), so I don't know where you found the 1948 or 1951 Athearn catalogs you mention. Not having all catalogs by every manufacturer here, I can't verify your finding that the Athearn metal A-404 FGEX (F.D.E.X.) reefer does not appear in them, but rest assured that this car was produced for at least 5 years.

While it very well may not have been produced as early as 1948, Athearn's line of metal cars that year consisted only of box cars, and an incomplete selection of roadnames of them at that date; additional box car roadnames were added up until 1954. Likewise, for his selection of reefer roadnames. The earliest production was the few box cars having no catalog numbers, and which comparatively fewer were made -- making them harder to find for collectors. Many other box cars were introduced later in 1948.

If, as you state, the Fruit Growers Express reefer was not included in the 1952 Athearn catalog, I have no explanation for that, although I haven't seen it. As your instruction sheet for this car is dated 1949 -- as are also a number of mine, for the FGEX -- this is of course the first year that this and all other metal refrigerator cars were produced (as were the metal tank cars). My early 1950 Athearn catalog -- same as my very good friend, the late Roy Scott's catalog shown on page 31 of the Greenberg's Athearn Guide -- includes this FGEX reefer. Additionally, my 1953 Athearn catalog includes this same car (as I indicated to Dallas Mallerich when I was helping him with the book), so we know it was produced at least from 1949 through 1953 inclusive. Would it have been dropped for one year (1952 ?), I really doubt it. It may also have been produced even later but we don't know (the BAR reefer had just been introduced in 1954, and it would seem logical that Irv did not just produce just that one metal reefer that year, but quite possibly continued all other roadnames).

Once the artwork for any of the car kits' paint schemes were decided upon, there were no changes to the painting. While you suggest some slight changes that could have been made (presumedly by the modeler), and while the prototype scheme was modified twice after 1949, up through 1951, it would be assumed that these changes were not made to the same prototype roadnumbers that were produced in earlier years but to newly manufactured prototype FGEX reefers (with higher roadnumbers). To change the paint scheme at all on Athearn's numbered FGEX reefers, also having their printed-on (and earlier than 1950 and 1951) build dates would not be modeling prototypically so there'd be no need to make these changes you mentioned -- unless you also changed the roadnumber (and build date) on these car sides to correspond with the newly (1950 or 1951) manufactured prototype FGEX reefers, but then why would you?.

Ray Wetzel



--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" wrote:
>
> Hello--Just received an Athearn litho printed metal side Fruit Growers Express reefer with an instruction sheet copyright 1949. This particular model appears in neither the 1948 nor 1952 catalogs shown in the Links portion of the group. My initial conclusion is that it was offered for, at most, three years (1949-51).
>
> The paint scheme used on the model is "dead on" the prototype through early 1949. Although the prototype scheme was modified twice between late 1949 and late 1951, neither change would have necessarily required that the model sides be reprinted (with door hardware, grabs, and ladders separate, the only side change would have been to repaint the kick plate under the door, which could have been easily accomplished by the modeler).
>
> Since I know next to nothing about Uncle Irv's metal offerings, I'd appreciate your insights and information about this model and why it's production may have ceased so soon (i.e.--shortage of war-critical materials, poor sales, etc.???).
>
> Thanks, in advance, for any information and insights.
>
> Best Wishes--Carl
>
> Carl G. Camann
> Atlanta, GA
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20851 From: erieberk Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Ron,

Yes, the author (Dallas Mallerich) of the Greenberg Athearn's Guide decided to use this 1950 date for the A-404 FGEX (F.D.E.X.) reefer, as well as for 8 other reefer roadnames out of the dozen that were produced. Two roadnames (Swift/S.R.L.X. and Armour/A.R.L.X.) have no dates in their descriptions, while one roadname -- B.A.R. ("State of Maine") has 1954.

Most often, these date are used to signify when the model was first introduced -- but doesn't indicate the only year it was offered nor the latest date it was offered. Acknowledging that the FGEX reefer was first introduced by Athearn in 1949, the 1950 date in the Guide appears to be an error, but then, minor errors can be expected in many of these Guides. Probably about the best that some of these dates indicate is the era that these models first became more prevalent on the market as far as availability.

A single date, such as 1950, is not meant to provide the production duration except when a time span is shown; like 1955-1958. Most (although not all) of the Athearn metal kits that were first introduced in 1948 are still found in the 1953 catalog. Two typical examples are the 40' A-125 S.A.L. box car and the 50' A-204 A.T.S.F Express automobile car. The 40' A-175 B&O "Sentinel" is another example, all picked at random from the Greenberg Guide (pages 50, 54 and 51, consecutively.

As the first Athearn plastic box cars weren't introduced until early 1957, and as Athearn kit boxes designated only to hold Athearn metal car kits were produced as late as 1953-1957, 1955-1956 and 1956-1960, it's seen by this that metal car kits were still being manufactured well over 10 years after first being marketed. There's the very good chance that the A-404 F.D.E.X. was still being manufactured well after the 1953 catalog it was included in.

Ray Wetzel





--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rxensen" wrote:
>
> My Greensburg guide to Athearn lists these
> Fruit Growers Express as FDEX #9200,9222,0226,9227,9236,9245,9250,9252,9253,9254,9255,9257,9259,9262,9272,
> 9277. listing it as A-404. A 1950 date,
> Ron Christensen
>
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" wrote:
> >
> > Hello--Just received an Athearn litho printed metal side Fruit Growers Express reefer with an instruction sheet copyright 1949. This particular model appears in neither the 1948 nor 1952 catalogs shown in the Links portion of the group. My initial conclusion is that it was offered for, at most, three years (1949-51).
> >
> > The paint scheme used on the model is "dead on" the prototype through early 1949. Although the prototype scheme was modified twice between late 1949 and late 1951, neither change would have necessarily required that the model sides be reprinted (with door hardware, grabs, and ladders separate, the only side change would have been to repaint the kick plate under the door, which could have been easily accomplished by the modeler).
> >
> > Since I know next to nothing about Uncle Irv's metal offerings, I'd appreciate your insights and information about this model and why it's production may have ceased so soon (i.e.--shortage of war-critical materials, poor sales, etc.???).
> >
> > Thanks, in advance, for any information and insights.
> >
> > Best Wishes--Carl
> >
> > Carl G. Camann
> > Atlanta, GA
> >
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20852 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Carl,

To add to my recent post, I just now came across my 1954 Athearn catalog and a newer one (which contains only the series of plastic models). The 1954 Athearn catalog contains your Athearn metal A-404 F.D.E.X. refrigerator car, so this is an addition year that it was produced. It would be reasonable to believe it was produced, along with the rest of the metal line, right up to the end of the metal car production in 1960, or at least very close to it. It certainly did not have poor sales, as you may be suggesting. I doubt if any of these cars had poor sales, although some may have been even more popular than others.

Ray Wetzel



--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" wrote:
>
> Hello--Just received an Athearn litho printed metal side Fruit Growers Express reefer with an instruction sheet copyright 1949. This particular model appears in neither the 1948 nor 1952 catalogs shown in the Links portion of the group. My initial conclusion is that it was offered for, at most, three years (1949-51).
>
> The paint scheme used on the model is "dead on" the prototype through early 1949. Although the prototype scheme was modified twice between late 1949 and late 1951, neither change would have necessarily required that the model sides be reprinted (with door hardware, grabs, and ladders separate, the only side change would have been to repaint the kick plate under the door, which could have been easily accomplished by the modeler).
>
> Since I know next to nothing about Uncle Irv's metal offerings, I'd appreciate your insights and information about this model and why it's production may have ceased so soon (i.e.--shortage of war-critical materials, poor sales, etc.???).
>
> Thanks, in advance, for any information and insights.
>
> Best Wishes--Carl
>
> Carl G. Camann
> Atlanta, GA
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20853 From: Carl Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Metal Side Reefer from 1949
Ron & Ray--Thanks for the specific information. What is particularly interesting is not only the history on the model, but the fact that Athearn produced the model numbered for so many individual cars. I'm looking for a Greenburg guide now.

Best Wishes--Carl

Carl G. Camann
Atlanta, Georgia

BTW--The information I referred to earlier to be in the "Links" section is found under the "Athearn" tab on the "Assembly Diagrams-Engines-Cars" link.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

> ...Greensburg guide to Athearn lists these Fruit Growers Express
>asFDEX >#9200,9222,9226,9227,9236,9245,9250,9252,9253,9254,9255,9257,9259,
>9262,9272,9277. listing it as A-404.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20854 From: luvprr2003 Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Walthers New Haven Coach
Gentlemen:
I am looking for an Walthers HO streamlined (American Flyer style) unbuilt New Haven coach kit. Will be happy to pay $250 for one in any condition box. Willing to consider a built one for less depending on condition.
Art Waite
Group: vintageHO Message: 20855 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Toonerville trolleys
Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?

He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800

item # 190793481497

I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
Group: vintageHO Message: 20856 From: Brad Smith Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
I will buy your first one. 

Brad Smith
Franklin, WI

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Feb 9, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

 

Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?

He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800

item # 190793481497

I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO Message: 20857 From: lewis.ted16 Date: 2/9/2013
Subject: Trolley car
I am building a small trolley layout for a window display in an ice cream shop. It will be about 2 x 3 feet, HO scale. Can someone advise me what brand of trolley car to use? This will run endless hours all summer.I am thinking an older type might last longer. Thank you.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20858 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
And I will by your second one.

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh


On 2/9/2013 9:27 PM, Brad Smith wrote:
 
I will buy your first one. 

Brad Smith
Franklin, WI

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Feb 9, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

 

Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?

He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800

item # 190793481497

I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA


Group: vintageHO Message: 20859 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
And if you also do one in O gauge I'll buy that one too

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh


On 2/10/2013 7:20 AM, oljoe wrote:
 

And I will by your second one.

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh


On 2/9/2013 9:27 PM, Brad Smith wrote:
 
I will buy your first one. 

Brad Smith
Franklin, WI

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Feb 9, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

 

Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?

He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800

item # 190793481497

I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



Group: vintageHO Message: 20860 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Trolley car
On 2/9/2013 8:30 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote:
> I am building a small trolley layout for a window display in an ice cream shop. It will be about 2 x 3 feet, HO scale. Can someone advise me what brand of trolley car to use? This will run endless hours all summer.I am thinking an older type might last longer. Thank you.
>
>
This goes against everything I believe in and stand for, but our
experience at "Cream City Traction" has been the newer Bachman Brill
Trolleys with the can motors are probably the most reliable ones out
there as well as being the least expensive ones on the market today..

Stay away from the four wheelers like the Tycos, they aren't as good at
power pickup. In vintage, the old Ken Kidder double truck Birneys are
some of the nicest looking ones, but they weren't the greatest runners.
The problems with trolleys was, and still is, that they're so light they
tend to have problems with power pickup.

Don

--
Don Dellmann
don.dellmann@...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
Group: vintageHO Message: 20861 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
I'll buy the 1st one in 1:29 or 1:32. 
Walter
Anguilla, B. W. I.

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:03 AM, oljoe <oljoe@...> wrote:
 

And if you also do one in O gauge I'll buy that one too



Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh


On 2/10/2013 7:20 AM, oljoe wrote:
 

And I will by your second one.

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh


On 2/9/2013 9:27 PM, Brad Smith wrote:
 
I will buy your first one. 

Brad Smith
Franklin, WI

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Feb 9, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

 

Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?

He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800

item # 190793481497

I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA

Group: vintageHO Message: 20862 From: ablecynic Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Mike,

It isn't the Toonerville Trolley that the winner purchased, but something very 'rare' (in his mind) that no one else has. Kemtron only made about 250 of these (according to a history of Kemtron that was given at a NMRA meet many years ago) so they are considered among the less common Kemtron pieces. The only problem with making a modern, good running Toonerville Trolley is that there aren't many of us left who even remember the comic strip.

But if you make a run, I will buy the third one! ;o)

Matt Coleman

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
>
> Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?
>
> He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800
>
> item # 190793481497
>
> I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.
>
> Best to ya...
> Mike Bauers
> Milwaukee, Wi, USA
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20863 From: gbwdude Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Maybe I'm not getting it, but why so much for three of them? Are they that rare? Granted they're nothing that'd I'd buy but I do appreciate their whimsical look.

Tyler
Group: vintageHO Message: 20864 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Just a little thinking out loud......
Years ago David O. King did an O gauge Toonerville Trolley.  I believe he was eventually forced
to quit making it because he didn't ask for the necessary copyright releases from the Heirs
of Fontaine Fox who apparently owned the rights to the name and design of the Toonerville
Trolley.  The other O gauge repro Toonerville Trolley was made by C&M and they did the necessary
work to get permissions needed to make and sell their trolley.   That trolley was an almost exact
repro of the windup trolley done by Fontaine Fox in the late 20's except it had an electric motor
to power it.  It was quite a site to see running as it had off center wheels that caused it to
"wiggle" down the track as it ran.  Somewhere I have a video of this item running.  If anyone
is interested I will track down the video for viewing.

I have an example of the David O. King trolley and am still looking for an example of the C&M version.
Both versions show up randomly on ebay but pricing is an issue for me.

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh.  44839


On 2/10/2013 1:43 PM, ablecynic wrote:
 

Mike,

It isn't the Toonerville Trolley that the winner purchased, but something very 'rare' (in his mind) that no one else has. Kemtron only made about 250 of these (according to a history of Kemtron that was given at a NMRA meet many years ago) so they are considered among the less common Kemtron pieces. The only problem with making a modern, good running Toonerville Trolley is that there aren't many of us left who even remember the comic strip.

But if you make a run, I will buy the third one! ;o)

Matt Coleman

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
>
> Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?
>
> He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800
>
> item # 190793481497
>
> I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.
>
> Best to ya...
> Mike Bauers
> Milwaukee, Wi, USA
>


Group: vintageHO Message: 20865 From: oljoe Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbm3wr0JZ5o

Here is a link to the video of a C&M toonerville trolley running on
O gauge track..... Other items in the video were also offered
by C&M.  I also have pics of 2 end to end turntables that
would rotate the trolley and send it off in the opposite
direction.

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh.  44839


On 2/10/2013 2:07 PM, oljoe wrote:
 

Just a little thinking out loud......
Years ago David O. King did an O gauge Toonerville Trolley.  I believe he was eventually forced
to quit making it because he didn't ask for the necessary copyright releases from the Heirs
of Fontaine Fox who apparently owned the rights to the name and design of the Toonerville
Trolley.  The other O gauge repro Toonerville Trolley was made by C&M and they did the necessary
work to get permissions needed to make and sell their trolley.   That trolley was an almost exact
repro of the windup trolley done by Fontaine Fox in the late 20's except it had an electric motor
to power it.  It was quite a site to see running as it had off center wheels that caused it to
"wiggle" down the track as it ran.  Somewhere I have a video of this item running.  If anyone
is interested I will track down the video for viewing.

I have an example of the David O. King trolley and am still looking for an example of the C&M version.
Both versions show up randomly on ebay but pricing is an issue for me.

Joe O'Loughlin
Huron, Oh.  44839


On 2/10/2013 1:43 PM, ablecynic wrote:
 

Mike,

It isn't the Toonerville Trolley that the winner purchased, but something very 'rare' (in his mind) that no one else has. Kemtron only made about 250 of these (according to a history of Kemtron that was given at a NMRA meet many years ago) so they are considered among the less common Kemtron pieces. The only problem with making a modern, good running Toonerville Trolley is that there aren't many of us left who even remember the comic strip.

But if you make a run, I will buy the third one! ;o)

Matt Coleman

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote:
>
> Was anyone watching the eBay auction for three HO Toonerville trolleys?
>
> He had a reserved price of $1,200 on them and ended up with a winner of $1,275. For the last few days the top bid was at $800
>
> item # 190793481497
>
> I swear I should dabble with laser cutting some of these and offering them to the hobby.
>
> Best to ya...
> Mike Bauers
> Milwaukee, Wi, USA
>



Group: vintageHO Message: 20866 From: Sean Naylor Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
Hey Guys,

Here are my two Toonerville trollies:


In the photo description, I give a brief description of the history of the trolley that I found on the web...and reference in the description. 

Neat auction. Not sure how I missed it.
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

From: gbwdude <gbwdude@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 1:44 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Toonerville trolleys

 
Maybe I'm not getting it, but why so much for three of them? Are they that rare? Granted they're nothing that'd I'd buy but I do appreciate their whimsical look.

Tyler



Group: vintageHO Message: 20867 From: John Hagen Date: 2/10/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys

Yeah Tyler,

 

You suffer from the “Born too late” syndrome. All us’n old farts remember the Toonerville Trolley.

 

BTW, as I read somewhere recently the total production of the Kemtron models was more like in the 60 range. The Kemtron HO are by far the highest priced models; one very nice example in clean brass sold for $625 in January and another, painted in what looks like gray primer went for over $400.00 last December.

 

I’d like to have one, an original Kemtron of course but I’d buy a well done re-pop if Mike does one.

 

John Hagen

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gbwdude
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:45 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Toonerville trolleys

 

 

Maybe I'm not getting it, but why so much for three of them? Are they that rare? Granted they're nothing that'd I'd buy but I do appreciate their whimsical look.

Tyler

Group: vintageHO Message: 20868 From: corlissbs Date: 2/11/2013
Subject: Re: Trolley car
I would go with one of the Bowser cars.  They make a PCC, a Brill and a Jewett.
 
 
Brad Smith
Franklin,WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 20869 From: CinderCrusher Date: 2/11/2013
Subject: Re: Toonerville trolleys
I have one of the Fontaine Fox tin wind-up trolleys, but it is in pretty bad shape. A previous owner painted over part of the lithography and the type of paint he used will not come off without destroying the litho underneath. I know, I tried. Also, one wheel was missing, but I cast a new one out of soft metal so it will at least sit on a shelf.

I had thoughts of motorizing it to run on Lionel track, but after seeing one like mine,(in better condition), in a museum, I decided against it. I'll save it for my grandson.

I would love to have one of the Kemtron HO models to run on my railroad, but not at those prices.

Bill DeFoe



--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" wrote:
>
> Yeah Tyler,
>
>
>
> You suffer from the "Born too late" syndrome. All us'n old farts remember
> the Toonerville Trolley.
>
>
>
> BTW, as I read somewhere recently the total production of the Kemtron models
> was more like in the 60 range. The Kemtron HO are by far the highest priced
> models; one very nice example in clean brass sold for $625 in January and
> another, painted in what looks like gray primer went for over $400.00 last
> December.
>
>
>
> I'd like to have one, an original Kemtron of course but I'd buy a well done
> re-pop if Mike does one.
>
>
>
> John Hagen
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20870 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Window Plastic for old cars
All,

I'm sure we've all run into it before: The clear celluloid warped out real bad in old passenger cars, even warping the card sided cars, particularly Strombecker or some JC Models before the Silversides were introduced.

I've generally had good luck removing the celluloid, and have been tinkering with ways to affix replacement plastic.

Right now my idea is to not glue the plastic at all. Rather, trim the plastic to be just bigger than the windows, and in a car length strip. Then use masking tape or similar to tape it to the car sides.

My thinking is that this will not use glue to damage anything, and if the interoir walls are painted, the tape will make it easier than just painting around the plastic. Having good success with this idea on an old JC Models combine car.

With my push to interior detail my cars, so far it looks OK. At least better than bare metal car walls inside!

Anyone have any improvements or refinements? This is just something I've been tinkering with, never seen any old models use such a system, so I wonder if there is a drawback I haven't thought of yet.

-Steve Neubaum
Group: vintageHO Message: 20871 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
On 2/12/2013 7:01 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
All,

I'm sure we've all run into it before: The clear celluloid warped out real bad in old passenger cars, even warping the card sided cars, particularly Strombecker or some JC Models before the Silversides were introduced.

I've generally had good luck removing the celluloid, and have been tinkering with ways to affix replacement plastic.

Right now my idea is to not glue the plastic at all. Rather, trim the plastic to be just bigger than the windows, and in a car length strip. Then use masking tape or similar to tape it to the car sides.

My thinking is that this will not use glue to damage anything, and if the interoir walls are painted, the tape will make it easier than just painting around the plastic. Having good success with this idea on an old JC Models combine car.

With my push to interior detail my cars, so far it looks OK. At least better than bare metal car walls inside!

Anyone have any improvements or refinements? This is just something I've been tinkering with, never seen any old models use such a system, so I wonder if there is a drawback I haven't thought of yet.

-Steve Neubaum

I haven't had warpage problems, even with the card side cars, but I have had the celluloid peel away.  i've just re-glued fresh with modern contact cements.  I use the transparancy stock from Office Depot for glazing.  Of course I don't detail my imteriors, I just frost the windows with matte finish or dullcoat.

Don
-- 
Don Dellmann
don.dellmann@...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
Group: vintageHO Message: 20872 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Don,

Ever owned any Strombecker cars? Hard to find cars that aren't warped!

The transparancy idea is good. I've used clear plastic from packaging mostly. Some shirts come in clear plastic boxes, which can be cut up into sheets. My dad dropped off three boxes like that last week.

Model makers tend to be good recyclers!

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Window Plastic for old cars
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 5:57 PM

 

On 2/12/2013 7:01 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
All,

I'm sure we've all run into it before: The clear celluloid warped out real bad in old passenger cars, even warping the card sided cars, particularly Strombecker or some JC Models before the Silversides were introduced.

I've generally had good luck removing the celluloid, and have been tinkering with ways to affix replacement plastic.

Right now my idea is to not glue the plastic at all. Rather, trim the plastic to be just bigger than the windows, and in a car length strip. Then use masking tape or similar to tape it to the car sides.

My thinking is that this will not use glue to damage anything, and if the interoir walls are painted, the tape will make it easier than just painting around the plastic. Having good success with this idea on an old JC Models combine car.

With my push to interior detail my cars, so far it looks OK. At least better than bare metal car walls inside!

Anyone have any improvements or refinements? This is just something I've been tinkering with, never seen any old models use such a system, so I wonder if there is a drawback I haven't thought of yet.

-Steve Neubaum

I haven't had warpage problems, even with the card side cars, but I have had the celluloid peel away.  i've just re-glued fresh with modern contact cements.  I use the transparancy stock from Office Depot for glazing.  Of course I don't detail my imteriors, I just frost the windows with matte finish or dullcoat.

Don
-- 
Don Dellmann
don.dellmann@...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
Group: vintageHO Message: 20873 From: ho_in_hancock Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Steve, I've used recycled packaging plastic and in some cases, Evergreen .005" thick clear styrene for window glazing.

I use either Elmer's white-glue or Devcon 5-minute epoxy to attach either one of these materials, with excellent results. Neither one of these adhesives attacks the plastic and both dry clear.

My approach is to apply small dollups or beads of the stuff at the four inside corners of a window or several beads along the length of a strip such as you might use for doing passenger car windows.

As far as stability is concerned, I have a steam locomotive that had Evergreen .005" styrene glazing installed this way 27 years ago and it looks the same today as the day I installed it.

Ken Robbins
Hancock, NH

> Anyone have any improvements or refinements? This is just something I've been tinkering with, never seen any old models use such a system, so I wonder if there is a drawback I haven't thought of yet.
>
> -Steve Neubaum
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20874 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: 02/14/13 - C&O 3 INCH SCALE RIDE-IN CABOOSE & DON STATON
Attachments :
Photo today.  See attached.  Happy Valentine's Day.

(COHS - ATTN: MAC.  More to follow on the rest of the train.)

The caboose and cars need shop work which I will be doing this summer.  The 4-6-2 loco and tender are stored inside so they are in good shape.  The scale is 3 inches = 1 foot.  The track gauge is 15 inches.  I can actually ride in the locomotive cab to operate it. 

I have come a long way back since the heart failure, kidney failure and internal bleeding in both eyes and medical retirement in 2011.  It is all by the Grace of God, listening, resting, practicing good health habits and good doctors.  It is good to be functioning well again.  Now I am involved in a railroad history writing project in the area where I grew up and loving it.

Grace and Peace...  Be greater blessed...
Don Staton
Virginia Beach, VA.
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20875 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
The Devcon 5-minute stuff, that's the stuff that goes by the name of "Weldit", right? I'm very familiar with it, as I use lots of it in balsa, basswood, and card modeling. I've used it to glue a Kadee #4 box to a Mantua tender, and five years in, never had a problem!

Basically, I'm looking well into the future with my work. I'm 28 years old, and figure I'll have these trains for a while!

Thanks
-Steve Neubaum

--- On Thu, 2/14/13, ho_in_hancock <kenrobbins39@...> wrote:

From: ho_in_hancock <kenrobbins39@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Window Plastic for old cars
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2013, 7:52 PM

 

Steve, I've used recycled packaging plastic and in some cases, Evergreen .005" thick clear styrene for window glazing.

I use either Elmer's white-glue or Devcon 5-minute epoxy to attach either one of these materials, with excellent results. Neither one of these adhesives attacks the plastic and both dry clear.

My approach is to apply small dollups or beads of the stuff at the four inside corners of a window or several beads along the length of a strip such as you might use for doing passenger car windows.

As far as stability is concerned, I have a steam locomotive that had Evergreen .005" styrene glazing installed this way 27 years ago and it looks the same today as the day I installed it.

Ken Robbins
Hancock, NH

> Anyone have any improvements or refinements? This is just something I've been tinkering with, never seen any old models use such a system, so I wonder if there is a drawback I haven't thought of yet.
>
> -Steve Neubaum
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20876 From: ho_in_hancock Date: 2/15/2013
Subject: Re: Window Plastic for old cars
Steve, I don't know if "Weldit" has the same properties as Devcon 5-minute. I put a photo of what I use in the photos section under "Devcon". Hope this helps.
Ken Robbins

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
>
> The Devcon 5-minute stuff, that's the stuff that goes by the name of "Weldit", right?
Group: vintageHO Message: 20877 From: al45390 Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Westinghouse 3E control valve & Franklin T-35 generator
Somewhere along the way, years ago, I acquired, for no reason I remember, H0 metal casting by M. Dale Newton Co. of Medford, Oregon, of Westinghouse 3E control valves and Franklin T-35 generators. They came in one and the same envelope.

Does anyone know, or have an informed opinion, concerning what type(s) of passenger (or freight?) cars would have used these equipments? Are there any diagrams or drawings of placement on those cars?

Thanks,
Walter
Group: vintageHO Message: 20878 From: Model RailRoad Warehouse Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: Westinghouse 3E control valve & Franklin T-35 generator
Those parts were marketed as "caboose generator." 

Merle Rice
Mfgr of Red Ball 1975-2011
 
Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. New NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it out today !
If you recieved a confirming order email you may phone 1-800-672-8762 (EST business hours) with credit card info or click here for PayPal (Mastercard/Visa/elctronicCheck payments: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=sales@... . Send your PayPal payment to Sales@... .
Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to hearing from you again.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20879 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: Westinghouse 3E control valve & Franklin T-35 generator
Thanks, Merle. Why I ever acquired them, I just don't recall. I am not a 'caboose-nut', so ... ???

Walter

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote:
 

Those parts were marketed as "caboose generator." 

Merle Rice
Mfgr of Red Ball 1975-2011
 
Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. New NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it out today !
If you recieved a confirming order email you may phone 1-800-672-8762 (EST business hours) with credit card info or click here for PayPal (Mastercard/Visa/elctronicCheck payments: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=sales@... . Send your PayPal payment to Sales@... .
Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to hearing from you again.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20880 From: cwrailman Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR

I know a few of you may have these locomotives either in kit form or RTR. I hope yours ran better than the one I just bought.  Check out my latest blog to see my L O W cost, budget minded project directed at making a RTR Mantua General locomotive actually RTR.  At the end of the bloc is a link to the video showing the locomotive in operation.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20881 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR
I don't have one, but the owner of the hobby shop had an old one in his personal collection that I reworked for him. It runs fairly well now, but not as well as it sounds yours does now.

The original motor tells me it is not exactly "New" production, as Mantua locomotives for a while even before Model Power aquired the line, had can motors inside. At least my 1992 GP-20 did, which I had as a kid.

Been working on a similar project, an old Pocher/AHM 4-4-0, the V&T "Reno". Missing drive shaft to the tender. A hex key cut to length worked and fit just fine. Cowcatcher gone. The cowcatcher off a Playart 0-4-0 that someone gave me did just fine, though had to be trimmed to look right, as the V&T model is narrower than the Playart loco.

Replacement trucks for the tender, as the originals were damaged. This brought the height of the frame up. Someone mounted a Kadee to it, using an underset shank. This also had to be redone.

Not quite finished, but is operable so far.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sat, 2/23/13, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:

From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 23, 2013, 6:37 PM

 

I know a few of you may have these locomotives either in kit form or RTR. I hope yours ran better than the one I just bought.  Check out my latest blog to see my L O W cost, budget minded project directed at making a RTR Mantua General locomotive actually RTR.  At the end of the bloc is a link to the video showing the locomotive in operation.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20882 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Winans Camel
Some of you may have noticed that there is a Strombecker kit for a Winans Camel wood kit on eBay now. It's a 4-6-0 just like sits in the St Louis train museum.

I didn't know Strombecker made that one. It's not mine and it's not a kit I can be very interested in with it's undetailed wheels. But I'm thinking someone would be interested enough to give it a good home.

I think I'm happy just seeing it and capturing the image of the parts in the box and the diagram on the kit plans.

It would make a great pattern to build a better detailed model from. I wouldn't use the original kit as much as measure the heck out of it and build from a photo study of the museum lokie. Writing as someone that has those photos.....

Perhaps someone is interested in the kit? It seems to be quite rare.

Now if I can just settle upon how to build a Strombecker TA without having the wooden substructure. I have the kit but the TA core was missing. My goal is to photo-print from the original material and end up with a working model Rock Island Rocket passenger train using contemporary model parts for everything under the cloned Strombecker skins.

Come to think on it, that would work for the Strombecker Winans as well, or build from the museum photo study as a sort of photo card model. Sure would have to photoshop the pictures to do it.

Put that down as wild idea # 543965.

Returning..... I sure hope someone wants that Strombecker Winans.

And I'm going to see about returning to that St Louis train museum for higher Rez images than the camera I had with me those years ago.

Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone
Group: vintageHO Message: 20883 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Re: Winans Camel
Mike,

If it is any "food for thought", I have a number of the Strombecker RI passenger cars, purchased a few years ago on eBay. A previous owner had reworked them into an articulated trainset, similar to the Nebraska Zephyr. No clue what locomotive he had pulling them, as I only got the cars that were in ratty shape.

A piece of metal spanned the gap between cars in lieu of a coupler, and a truck was rigid mounted under this piece of metal. Some of the trucks are reworked Walthers or Varney, a few appear handmade.

The set works, stays on the track and can be run, but the cosmetic condition, especially of roofs, is fairly poor. A plastic dome (Appears to been a crude vacuum form), originally was atop two of the cars, have nine cars total, but these were seriously damaged, and were removed.

The paper window section on one car is severely damaged. Planning to scan it to my computer, digitally "touch up" damaged areas, and print new.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Winans Camel
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, EarlyRail@yahoogroups.com, Civil_War_RRs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 11:10 AM

 

Some of you may have noticed that there is a Strombecker kit for a Winans Camel wood kit on eBay now. It's a 4-6-0 just like sits in the St Louis train museum.

I didn't know Strombecker made that one. It's not mine and it's not a kit I can be very interested in with it's undetailed wheels. But I'm thinking someone would be interested enough to give it a good home.

I think I'm happy just seeing it and capturing the image of the parts in the box and the diagram on the kit plans.

It would make a great pattern to build a better detailed model from. I wouldn't use the original kit as much as measure the heck out of it and build from a photo study of the museum lokie. Writing as someone that has those photos.....

Perhaps someone is interested in the kit? It seems to be quite rare.

Now if I can just settle upon how to build a Strombecker TA without having the wooden substructure. I have the kit but the TA core was missing. My goal is to photo-print from the original material and end up with a working model Rock Island Rocket passenger train using contemporary model parts for everything under the cloned Strombecker skins.

Come to think on it, that would work for the Strombecker Winans as well, or build from the museum photo study as a sort of photo card model. Sure would have to photoshop the pictures to do it.

Put that down as wild idea # 543965.

Returning..... I sure hope someone wants that Strombecker Winans.

And I'm going to see about returning to that St Louis train museum for higher Rez images than the camera I had with me those years ago.

Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO Message: 20884 From: Richard Dipping Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Re: Winans Camel
Just a point about Winans Camels...
 
The true Camel was an 0-8-0.  The term "Camel" defines an 0-8-0 locomotive Ross Winans designed to have all driving wheels with the entire weight of the locomotive supplying traction.  He wanted to produce the optimum pulling power from these engines.  The lack of a pilot truck caused more wear on the flanges than the B&O liked, so they asked him to build some with a 4-6-0 wheel arrangement. Winans absolutely refused to do this. So when some were built by later Master Mechanics Hayes and Davis (two seperate groups), Winans was incensed, and began a pamphlet writing binge against the Ten-Wheeler.  So it is incorrect to call the 4-6-0s made against Winan's wishes "Camels".  This would have REALLY bugged him.  The 4-6-0 at the B&O Museum is not a Camel and should be called a "Davis 10 Wheeler".
 
Richard.


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 12:26 pm
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Winans Camel



Mike,

If it is any "food for thought", I have a number of the Strombecker RI passenger cars, purchased a few years ago on eBay. A previous owner had reworked them into an articulated trainset, similar to the Nebraska Zephyr. No clue what locomotive he had pulling them, as I only got the cars that were in ratty shape.

A piece of metal spanned the gap between cars in lieu of a coupler, and a truck was rigid mounted under this piece of metal. Some of the trucks are reworked Walthers or Varney, a few appear handmade.

The set works, stays on the track and can be run, but the cosmetic condition, especially of roofs, is fairly poor. A plastic dome (Appears to been a crude vacuum form), originally was atop two of the cars, have nine cars total, but these were seriously damaged, and were removed.

The paper window section on one car is severely damaged. Planning to scan it to my computer, digitally "touch up" damaged areas, and print new.

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Winans Camel
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, EarlyRail@yahoogroups.com, Civil_War_RRs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 11:10 AM

 
Some of you may have noticed that there is a Strombecker kit for a Winans Camel wood kit on eBay now. It's a 4-6-0 just like sits in the St Louis train museum.

I didn't know Strombecker made that one. It's not mine and it's not a kit I can be very interested in with it's undetailed wheels. But I'm thinking someone would be interested enough to give it a good home.

I think I'm happy just seeing it and capturing the image of the parts in the box and the diagram on the kit plans.

It would make a great pattern to build a better detailed model from. I wouldn't use the original kit as much as measure the heck out of it and build from a photo study of the museum lokie. Writing as someone that has those photos.....

Perhaps someone is interested in the kit? It seems to be quite rare.

Now if I can just settle upon how to build a Strombecker TA without having the wooden substructure. I have the kit but the TA core was missing. My goal is to photo-print from the original material and end up with a working model Rock Island Rocket passenger train using contemporary model parts for everything under the cloned Strombecker skins.

Come to think on it, that would work for the Strombecker Winans as well, or build from the museum photo study as a sort of photo card model. Sure would have to photoshop the pictures to do it.

Put that down as wild idea # 543965.

Returning..... I sure hope someone wants that Strombecker Winans.

And I'm going to see about returning to that St Louis train museum for higher Rez images than the camera I had with me those years ago.

Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone



Group: vintageHO Message: 20885 From: gnryfan Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
I have acquired a partially assembled Arbour Models 2-6-6-6 Allegheny, and am missing the instruction sheets to be able to complete it. I know many of these are still in their boxes. Has anyone out there got a set of the instructions they would be willing to scan or copy for me? If so, contact me off-list, and thank you.
Joe Berger
Great Northern Railway (HO)
Cascade Division
Group: vintageHO Message: 20886 From: Riverboy Date: 2/24/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets

Hello Joe,
 
Try this link. I think it might have what you need.
 
 
Tod Dwyer (Ohio)
 


--- On Sun, 2/24/13, gnryfan <jberger@...> wrote:

From: gnryfan <jberger@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 5:35 PM

 
I have acquired a partially assembled Arbour Models 2-6-6-6 Allegheny, and am missing the instruction sheets to be able to complete it. I know many of these are still in their boxes. Has anyone out there got a set of the instructions they would be willing to scan or copy for me? If so, contact me off-list, and thank you.
Joe Berger
Great Northern Railway (HO)
Cascade Division

Group: vintageHO Message: 20887 From: gnryfan Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Tod: YES!! Thank you very much. Just what I was looking for.
Joe Berger
Great Northern Railway (HO)
Cascade Division

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:
> Hello Joe,
> Try this link. I think it might have what you need.
> http://hoseeker.net/otherhotrains10.html
> Tod Dwyer (Ohio)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20888 From: Riverboy Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Hi Joe,
 
That site has helped me so many times in the past. Although not complete, it is still an excellent place to look up such information. I recently acquired a mass of "junk" Mantua all metal General parts, but no instructions, but what I need is at that site as well. Many thanks to all those who have and continue to contribute to it.
 
Tod Dwyer (Ohio)

 


--- On Mon, 2/25/13, gnryfan <jberger@...> wrote:

From: gnryfan <jberger@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 9:05 AM

 
Tod: YES!! Thank you very much. Just what I was looking for.
Joe Berger
Great Northern Railway (HO)
Cascade Division

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy wrote:
> Hello Joe,
> Try this link. I think it might have what you need.
> http://hoseeker.net/otherhotrains10.html
> Tod Dwyer (Ohio)

Group: vintageHO Message: 20889 From: luvprr2003 Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Joe,
That was the easy part. Now you have to try to put that particular kit together so it actually runs without falling apart with those pewter parts.
 
Art (PA)
 
In a message dated 2/25/2013 2:11:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, river_dweller_ohio@... writes:


Hi Joe,
 
That site has helped me so many times in the past. Although not complete, it is still an excellent place to look up such information. I recently acquired a mass of "junk" Mantua all metal General parts, but no instructions, but what I need is at that site as well. Many thanks to all those who have and continue to contribute to it.
 
Tod Dwyer (Ohio)

 


--- On Mon, 2/25/13, gnryfan <jberger@...> wrote:

From: gnryfan <jberger@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 9:05 AM

 
Tod: YES!! Thank you very much. Just what I was looking for.
Joe Berger
Great Northern Railway (HO)
Cascade Division

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy wrote:
> Hello Joe,
> Try this link. I think it might have what you need.
> http://hoseeker.net/otherhotrains10.html
> Tod Dwyer (Ohio)

Group: vintageHO Message: 20890 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Re: Arbour Models Allegheny 2-6-6-6 Instruction sheets
Are the frames okay on those models? Gear drive decent?

If the worse drive parts are the rods, those are easy to replace with the right machine and different material.

I found myself looking at a 1949 or so Frank Taylor article in MR where he shows how to make a simple wood mold and cast new steamers frames. Although the same could be done with a bit of bar stock and a small mill.

Don't be heart-broken if new frames are needed. We got people out here that would enjoy making them.

And save a spare General mech if you can. We should see some darned interesting Executive Inspection superstructures for those by the end of the year.......... in both plain and very fancy styles.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



On Feb 25, 2013, at 1:22 PM, luvprr@... wrote:

>
>
> Joe,
> That was the easy part. Now you have to try to put that particular kit together so it actually runs without falling apart with those pewter parts.
>
> Art (PA)
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2013 2:11:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,river_dweller_ohio@... writes:
>
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> That site has helped me so many times in the past. Although not complete, it is still an excellent place to look up such information. I recently acquired a mass of "junk" Mantua all metal General parts, but no instructions, but what I need is at that site as well. Many thanks to all those who have and continue to contribute to it.
>
> Tod Dwyer (Ohio)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20891 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/25/2013
Subject: Winan's 4-6-0 Camelback
Of 1852....

I was reminded of a treasured Mel Thornburgh article on building that grand old B&O Camelback when I saw an old Strombecker wood kit of it in eBay a while ago.

The more I look at the article the better the possibilities of building her becomes. She uses standard sized 50 inch drivers and if you ignore building the inner valve gear; looks to be a somewhat uncomplicated build with nothing like a tapered boiler to make it messy to assemble. Even the frame and lead truck is uncomplicated and could be built to scale.

It's been on my bucket list for a lot of years. Even it's only a model you can justify as a working train museum locomotive, it would be so darned nice to have a very few of them running. They say it's just as easy to make three at once as it is to just make one...

Now if I just clamp some bar stock in the mill and cut six to eight half frames at a time, I could have my Winans without much pain.

Those big cab windows and paneled cab doors are begging to be laser cut with an eye to have them slide or swing as the real ones do. Those oddball tender trucks are begging me to make them.

I think I've waited long enough to have these engines. It's time I started on them.

Those common Mantua/Tyco switcher drivers are the right size and with a bit of lathing and milling would have the proper look of the era.

Yah, I'm thinking out loud on this and it certainly would be better to build and then talk about them.

Still...... It sure would be nice to have two or three of them running with today's on board sound and little tricks like a flickering firebox.

I'll see what I can do about that......

It sure sounds like a fun project. Mel was even very detailed about the proper colors for everything on her.


Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone
Group: vintageHO Message: 20892 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 2/26/2013
Subject: Re: Winan's 4-6-0 Camelback
I am truly looking forward to this build Mike.  Please provide photos regularly.  
:o)
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; EarlyRail@yahoogroups.com; Civil_War_RRs@yahoogroups.com
From: mwbauers55@...
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:19:00 -0600
Subject: [vintageHO] Winan's 4-6-0 Camelback

 
Of 1852....

I was reminded of a treasured Mel Thornburgh article on building that grand old B&O Camelback when I saw an old Strombecker wood kit of it in eBay a while ago.

The more I look at the article the better the possibilities of building her becomes. She uses standard sized 50 inch drivers and if you ignore building the inner valve gear; looks to be a somewhat uncomplicated build with nothing like a tapered boiler to make it messy to assemble. Even the frame and lead truck is uncomplicated and could be built to scale.

It's been on my bucket list for a lot of years. Even it's only a model you can justify as a working train museum locomotive, it would be so darned nice to have a very few of them running. They say it's just as easy to make three at once as it is to just make one...

Now if I just clamp some bar stock in the mill and cut six to eight half frames at a time, I could have my Winans without much pain.

Those big cab windows and paneled cab doors are begging to be laser cut with an eye to have them slide or swing as the real ones do. Those oddball tender trucks are begging me to make them.

I think I've waited long enough to have these engines. It's time I started on them.

Those common Mantua/Tyco switcher drivers are the right size and with a bit of lathing and milling would have the proper look of the era.

Yah, I'm thinking out loud on this and it certainly would be better to build and then talk about them.

Still...... It sure would be nice to have two or three of them running with today's on board sound and little tricks like a flickering firebox.

I'll see what I can do about that......

It sure sounds like a fun project. Mel was even very detailed about the proper colors for everything on her.

Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone


Group: vintageHO Message: 20893 From: cwrailman Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: Re: Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR REVISED New and Improved

Under the "darn, then we can do better than that" heading.  On another forum it was noted that Mantua used a similar 12mm x 15mm x 28mm can motor in their latest versions of some of their locomotives.  I decided we needed to up our game a bit so we installed the larger Nichibo PC130SF 15mm x 20mm x 25mm 60000 rpm flat can motor that I had previously noted was a consideration.  A new drive shaft was fabricated and the model retested.  Check out my 02/23/2013 Blog Revised for the New and Improved Remotoring of a Mantua General.  At the end of the blog is a link to the new video.  Note how much slower the model runs with the Nichibo PC130SF motor.  The last segment of that vide shows how the General's operation now compares to a much more expensive brass model.  Note the motors for this project are available on Ebay from seller Zinky86.   

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
>
> I don't have one, but the owner of the hobby shop had an old one in his personal collection that I reworked for him. It runs fairly well now, but not as well as it sounds yours does now.
>
> The original motor tells me it is not exactly "New" production, as Mantua locomotives for a while even before Model Power aquired the line, had can motors inside. At least my 1992 GP-20 did, which I had as a kid.
>
> Been working on a similar project, an old Pocher/AHM 4-4-0, the V&T "Reno". Missing drive shaft to the tender. A hex key cut to length worked and fit just fine. Cowcatcher gone. The cowcatcher off a Playart 0-4-0 that someone gave me did just fine, though had to be trimmed to look right, as the V&T model is narrower than the Playart loco.
>
> Replacement trucks for the tender, as the originals were damaged. This brought the height of the frame up. Someone mounted a Kadee to it, using an underset shank. This also had to be redone.
>
> Not quite finished, but is operable so far.
>
> -Steve Neubaum
>
> --- On Sat, 2/23/13, cwrailman cwrailman@... wrote:
>
> From: cwrailman cwrailman@...
> Subject: [vintageHO] Making a RTR Mantua General really RTR
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, February 23, 2013, 6:37 PM
>
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>  
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> I know a few of you may have these locomotives either in kit form or RTR. I hope yours ran better than the one I just bought.  Check out my latest blog to see my L O W cost, budget minded project directed at making a RTR Mantua General locomotive actually RTR.  At the end of the bloc is a link to the video showing the locomotive in operation.
> Denny
> Janitor in Training
> CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
> WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman 
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20894 From: frank Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: 75 years of Model Railroader/plug
I haven't seen commentary on this. Had some good financial luck in 2012 so I got the Kalmbach DVD with 75 years of Model Railroader. I had most of the issues in the basement, but not all.

Yes, it's kind of pricey ($200)but it's really worthwhile (I guess a few guys who live near each other could go together on one??). It loads well, although it takes an afternoon. But it's a great research tool for vintage stuff, the search function works(!!). I find it very useful for the articles and the ads. And I can find something in less time than it takes to go down to the basement and, maybe, find a back issue.

If you get it, though, be prepared for "So now you can throw out all those old magazines?"

Frank Bongiovanni (who has no financial interest in Kalmbach)
Group: vintageHO Message: 20895 From: John Hagen Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: Re: 75 years of Model Railroader/plug

Well I really like it as I can get rid of stacks and stacks of old, sometimes moldy magazines. And I can search out a article or a particular subject in minutes.

 

Yes it takes a while to load; around an hour or hour and a half and it takes a fair amount of hard drive space if you load all the issues on your computer as recommended. You can load just the index/covers and search engine and use the dvd’s to store the actual magazine files but that will lead to longer load times for any articles you want to open.

 

As to cost, Kalmbach has opened up sales to hobby dealers so check with you LHS. My LHS sells them at a 25% discount which makes for an appreciable savings.

 

Now that I am moving to a senior apartment which requires serious downsizing I find this set a to be a God send.

 

BTW, I also get my new issues of MR online so as to avoid rebuilding any huge stacks of MR mags.

 

Now I’m saving to get the Trains magazine set so I’ll be able to finally read all those old issues from the late 40’s with all their steam era stories and photos.

 

I also have no interest in Kalmbach Publishing but I know what I like. Can’t wait for MRC and others to issue DVD sets.

 

John Hagen

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 4:47 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] 75 years of Model Railroader/plug

 

 

I haven't seen commentary on this. Had some good financial luck in 2012 so I got the Kalmbach DVD with 75 years of Model Railroader. I had most of the issues in the basement, but not all.

Yes, it's kind of pricey ($200)but it's really worthwhile (I guess a few guys who live near each other could go together on one??). It loads well, although it takes an afternoon. But it's a great research tool for vintage stuff, the search function works(!!). I find it very useful for the articles and the ads. And I can find something in less time than it takes to go down to the basement and, maybe, find a back issue.

If you get it, though, be prepared for "So now you can throw out all those old magazines?"

Frank Bongiovanni (who has no financial interest in Kalmbach)

Group: vintageHO Message: 20896 From: Mike Bauers Date: 2/27/2013
Subject: Re: 75 years of Model Railroader/plug
Has anyone seen the new Kalmbach compilation dvd of assorted model railroad articles from a mix of long gone magazines?

Is it worthwhile?

I like the 75 year MR collection. But their search engine is terrible to work with.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA



On Feb 27, 2013, at 5:39 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:

>
>
> Well I really like it as I can get rid of stacks and stacks of old, sometimes moldy magazines. And I can search out a article or a particular subject in minutes.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20897 From: Bill Nielsen Date: 2/28/2013
Subject: Anyone remember Russell Mobi-Models Drawbridge kits?
When I was young, I always admired the big drawbridge on display in the LHS, made from one of the Russell Mobi-Models kits. They were made of die-cut mat-board, and were large and impressive, although they lacked the fine details (like rivets and bolts) that are seen on today's kits (that didn't seem to matter at the time). They were made to actually hinge up like a real drawbridge, and although I don't know how durable the mechanism was, I'm sure it could be beefed up enough to be acceptable for use on a layout. At the time, my little HO layout rolled under my double bed, so I didn't have the clearance for such a large bridge even if it always stayed in the down position. Still, they were quite impressive looking.

What I didn't know at the time was that they were produced by a local model railroader (I lived in Miami then), and were sold Nationally through hobby shops and mail orders. Quite some time ago (during the seventies I think), they went off the market, and I haven't seen them for many years. I didn't know if sales just ran their course, or the company owner lost interest, or what.

Recently, I ran into a vendor who was selling a few of the kits at a local train show, and it turns out it was his Dad who had been the one who produced the kits. He had found a lot of the kits in storage while cleaning out his Dad's house after he had passed away, and he thought it would be a terrible waste to simply throw them out, so he boxed up several kits, and built a few samples, and has been displaying and selling them at local train shows. He still has most of the models that were originally offered, and his prices are extremely cheap by today's standards. It occurs to me that there may be some folks on this list who might be interested in having a second chance to acquire one (or more) of these kits. The son doesn't have a website, but if you are interested, let me know and I'll forward his address to you (I can be reached at wrangler at gate dot net).

Bill in FtL
Group: vintageHO Message: 20898 From: Jim Heckard Date: 3/1/2013
Subject: pre war Varney Electric
I was wondering if anyone in the group won or bid on the
Pre war Varney electric that went off a couple of days ago
380580710641 Old Varney Model Train Loco that went for $630 + . A
extremely hard rare Varney piece to even find. I think worth more then that.

Jim H
Group: vintageHO Message: 20899 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/1/2013
Subject: Fwd: [narrowmilitaryrail] 1c. Re: Scale Link 1:32 Pechot-Bourdon Kit

I think most of us can get a chuckle out of this modelers 'test' .

Mike Bauers
Sent from my iPhone


Begin forwarded message:

Van: Stephen <auslend@...>
Aan: narrowmilitaryrail@yahoogroups.com
Verzonden: vrijdag 1 maart 23:48 2013
Onderwerp: RE: [narrowmilitaryrail] 1c. Re: Scale Link 1:32 Pechot-Bourdon Kit
 
A friend of mine was a super scratchbuild modeler. He worked in static plastic 1/32 scale model airplanes. He was the ultimate fine scale modeler but he always accepted any way of modeling, from super detail to fantasy to out of the box.  Once he made an American twin engine bomber circa 1940, with all the details and markings for the period. Only thing was, it was entirely fictitious. Then he entered it in a contest with the label B-31 or some such nonsense like that and then he stood inconspicuously near it and listened to the comments. He loved it when guys would come up to it, stare at for a moment and then very assertively tell the makers name (Boeing, Martin, whatever) to their friends who were with him. David said one guy went on and on with all the history of the plane. It was all Dave could do to keep from rolling on the floor with laughter. Dave even had the panel lines and rivets visible and one guy started counting them to check the spacing. I agreed with Dave, make whatever you want to make to whatever degree of accuracy you like and just enjoy the hobby, But do not tell anyone else what they are doing is wrong.
Stephen   
 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20900 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Athearn Train Set 4322
I've recently purchased the remnants of an Athearn train set circa 1960's, given that the box is of the "steam scene" variety. The box is in perfect shape and, among other items, included a pristine A-B set of New Haven F-7 Hi-F Drive diesels in the correct insert. The condition of these items would almost certainly indicate that this set was cannibalized early on and used to store the various items found within the box. My wish is to be able to return this set to like new condition using items that would have been included in it from the Athearn factory. The box is marked "#4322 N.H. Double Diesel Train Set". I have found no reference to this set in either the Greenberg Guide or the Standard Guide. Does anybody have an info that might help me? VBC.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20901 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: HOSeeker Site issues?
Has anyone else noticed an error accessing hoseeker.net?

going to their home page, typing in the URL, gives a site compression error.

But, going to any other page via address bar, such as hoseeker.net/gallery/ seems to work just fine.

Hoping it isn't just me!

-Steve Neubaum
Group: vintageHO Message: 20902 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker Site issues?
...And of course, now that I sent the message, I noticed that my bookmark is out of date.

Seems that hoseeker.org works just fine.

When did they change this?

-Steve

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] HOSeeker Site issues?
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 10:56 AM

 

Has anyone else noticed an error accessing hoseeker.net?

going to their home page, typing in the URL, gives a site compression error.

But, going to any other page via address bar, such as hoseeker.net/gallery/ seems to work just fine.

Hoping it isn't just me!

-Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO Message: 20903 From: James Bartelt Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: 18th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI 3-10-2013
METRO Model Railroad Club's 18TH annual railroad show and swap meet on Sunday, March 10th at
Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg will run from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Among the new features of this year's show will be an all new N scale layout by The Milwaukee `N
Southeastern Model Railroad Club of Cudahy, WI. The club will bring their newly built popular N scale
layout which has not been seen in Ozaukee County before. Also noted Railroad Author Jim Yanke from the C&NW Historical Society will be at the show in the morning signing copies of his book, The C&NW Airline Subdivision, which covers the C&NW line from Milwaukee to Fond Du Lac. The book has very detailed coverage of every location along the line...Granville, Rockfield, Jackson, West Bend, Barton, Siding BR, Kewaskum, Campbellsport, Eden, Eden Quarry and on into Fond Du Lac.

Among the new features of this year's show will be an HO scale layout by the West Bend Ballast
Scorchers. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will again be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and
permitting anyone to run the trains. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk
cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. Other returnees include the Badgerland S Gaugers showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S scale trains that are currently available. The WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will be showing examples of G scale equipment that is commonly used to create outdoor garden railroads, and also some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on.

In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Jerry Krug of the C&NWHS, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints.

Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to
Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader as well as Model Train Cars from ExactRail.
This is the 18th consecutive year for the show. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open;
attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details.

METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org.

Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when
accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance,
Kalmbach Publishing, ExactRail, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Further details can be
obtained by calling Jim Bartelt at 262-284-5876 or emailing at (jimbartelt@...).

--
James Bartelt
jimbartelt@...
Metro Model Railroad Club Show Chairman
Group: vintageHO Message: 20904 From: johnhutnick Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Pechot-Bourdon
Group: vintageHO Message: 20905 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/3/2013
Subject: Re: HOSeeker Site issues?
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
>
> ...And of course, now that I sent the message, I noticed that my bookmark is out of date.
>
> Seems that hoseeker.org works just fine.
>
> When did they change this?
>
> -Steve
>
> --- On Sat, 3/2/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
>
> From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
> Subject: [vintageHO] HOSeeker Site issues?
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 10:56 AM
>
>
> Steven,
I am aware that Larry was having some issues with the auction site not too long ago and was having to rebuild that part of his site. Maybe this might have something to do with the change. I was, as of a couple of weeks ago, able to purchase off of the auction site again! Van.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone else noticed an error accessing hoseeker.net?
>
> going to their home page, typing in the URL, gives a site compression error.
>
> But, going to any other page via address bar, such as hoseeker.net/gallery/ seems to work just fine.
>
> Hoping it isn't just me!
>
> -Steve Neubaum
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20906 From: cwrailman Date: 3/5/2013
Subject: Looking for info on a children’s book

I've thought a lot before asking this but I thought that someone else might be familiar with the book I am seeking info on.

Back in the mid 1950's I read a children's book about a boy who was building a model of a caboose.  As I recall he had an old caboose as his club house or one on railroad property that he frequented or something like that.  The book would have been written before 1958 and would have probably been meant for boys around the age of eight to twelve.  Anyone else remember any such book?  I think reading that book several times left me with an other wise unexplained interest in cabeese which has resulted in accumulation of  25 craftsman cabeese kits in my collection.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20907 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/5/2013
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on a children’s book
No, but I wish I did! I hope you find it.
Walter

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:21 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:
 

I've thought a lot before asking this but I thought that someone else might be familiar with the book I am seeking info on.

Back in the mid 1950's I read a children's book about a boy who was building a model of a caboose.  As I recall he had an old caboose as his club house or one on railroad property that he frequented or something like that.  The book would have been written before 1958 and would have probably been meant for boys around the age of eight to twelve.  Anyone else remember any such book?  I think reading that book several times left me with an other wise unexplained interest in cabeese which has resulted in accumulation of  25 craftsman cabeese kits in my collection.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 




--
Regards,
Walter
Group: vintageHO Message: 20908 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/5/2013
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on a children’s book
Denny,

I had tons of rail-oriented childrens books when I was a kid, many of them far older than I am - hand-me-downs from my dad and uncle, garage sale finds, so forth.

The title did not sound familiar to me, but I did some Google searching, hoping for a fun trip down memory lane (Which I did have!), but found this:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13118613-the-caboose-club

This kind of fits your description. Does it sound right?

-Steve Neubaum

--- On Tue, 3/5/13, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:

From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for info on a children’s book
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 5, 2013, 3:21 PM

 

I've thought a lot before asking this but I thought that someone else might be familiar with the book I am seeking info on.

Back in the mid 1950's I read a children's book about a boy who was building a model of a caboose.  As I recall he had an old caboose as his club house or one on railroad property that he frequented or something like that.  The book would have been written before 1958 and would have probably been meant for boys around the age of eight to twelve.  Anyone else remember any such book?  I think reading that book several times left me with an other wise unexplained interest in cabeese which has resulted in accumulation of  25 craftsman cabeese kits in my collection.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
Group: vintageHO Message: 20909 From: cwrailman Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children's book

Steve,

I am not sure.  I went to the site that you indicated but it would not let me look at the book.  Looking at the date of publication it seems about the correct time period.   In reading the brief description of the story it does seem that this might be the book.  I will see if I can get a copy of it. 

Thanks for taking the time to track down that info.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
>
> Denny,
>
> I had tons of rail-oriented childrens books when I was a kid, many of them far older than I am - hand-me-downs from my dad and uncle, garage sale finds, so forth.
>
> The title did not sound familiar to me, but I did some Google searching, hoping for a fun trip down memory lane (Which I did have!), but found this:
>
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13118613-the-caboose-club
>
> This kind of fits your description. Does it sound right?
>
> -Steve Neubaum
Group: vintageHO Message: 20910 From: Richard Dipping Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children's book
Speaking of kid's railroad books, I remember reading one from perhaps the same period ('50s) in which a boy has his Lionel running out-of-doors for a great distance through forrest and other natural scenes, through the use of 'magic track'.  The illustrations were black and white photographs.  Does anyone else remember this?  I'd like to know the title and author and perhaps find a copy.
 
Richard Dipping


-----Original Message-----
From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:19 am
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Looking for info on a children's book



Steve,
I am not sure.  I went to the site that you indicated but it would not let me look at the book.  Looking at the date of publication it seems about the correct time period.   In reading the brief description of the story it does seem that this might be the book.  I will see if I can get a copy of it. 
Thanks for taking the time to track down that info.
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: CWRailman.com 
Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
>
> Denny,
>
> I had tons of rail-oriented childrens books when I was a kid, many of them far older than I am - hand-me-downs from my dad and uncle, garage sale finds, so forth.
>
> The title did not sound familiar to me, but I did some Google searching, hoping for a fun trip down memory lane (Which I did have!), but found this:
>
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13118613-the-caboose-club
>
> This kind of fits your description. Does it sound right?
>
> -Steve Neubaum


Group: vintageHO Message: 20911 From: wdavis5069 Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children’s book
Unfortunately, I am not familiar with that one, but I read one when I was in elementary school about a boy who wanted to have a train and his did worked out a plan whereby he had to save a certain amount of money to buy the track and his dad would let him have one. I have forgotten the details, but I must have read it three or four times.

Wil

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
>
>
> I've thought a lot before asking this but I thought that someone
> else might be familiar with the book I am seeking info on.
>
> Back in the mid 1950's I read a children's book about a boy who
> was building a model of a caboose. As I recall he had an old caboose as
> his club house or one on railroad property that he frequented or
> something like that. The book would have been written before 1958 and
> would have probably been meant for boys around the age of eight to
> twelve. Anyone else remember any such book? I think reading that book
> several times left me with an other wise unexplained interest in cabeese
> which has resulted in accumulation of 25 craftsman cabeese kits in my
> collection.
>
> Denny
>
> Janitor in Training
>
> CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
>
> WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
> Facebook: CWRailman
> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20912 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Greetings,
Does anyone have or know of a source where I can get replacement couplers for the late 50's/early 60's coil spring type couplers for the rolling stock of this era? I had a couple of packages of Rail Line replacements at one time, but like a dummy, I discarded the packages so I have no idea what the product number was. Somebody's gotta be sitting on some of these! Thanks, Van.
Group: vintageHO Message: 20913 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Sam Clarke takes calls at Kadee in the afternoons--try him--I was there a
couple of weeks ago--didn't think to ask about the $4 couplers--possibly the
new "Whisker" centering spring couplers might do--glenn joesten

-----Original Message-----
From: vancampbell64
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 7:10 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers

Greetings,
Does anyone have or know of a source where I can get replacement couplers
for the late 50's/early 60's coil spring type couplers for the rolling stock
of this era? I had a couple of packages of Rail Line replacements at one
time, but like a dummy, I discarded the packages so I have no idea what the
product number was. Somebody's gotta be sitting on some of these! Thanks,
Van.



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Group: vintageHO Message: 20914 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
ps--Kadee closes at noon Fridays. gj those are #4 couplers, not $4
couplers. Too late for this. gj

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 12:17 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers

Sam Clarke takes calls at Kadee in the afternoons--try him--I was there a
couple of weeks ago--didn't think to ask about the $4 couplers--possibly the
new "Whisker" centering spring couplers might do--glenn joesten

-----Original Message-----
From: vancampbell64
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 7:10 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers

Greetings,
Does anyone have or know of a source where I can get replacement couplers
for the late 50's/early 60's coil spring type couplers for the rolling stock
of this era? I had a couple of packages of Rail Line replacements at one
time, but like a dummy, I discarded the packages so I have no idea what the
product number was. Somebody's gotta be sitting on some of these! Thanks,
Van.



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Group: vintageHO Message: 20915 From: Jim Waterman Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a children’s book
Hmm, saving up to buy track and trains and earning them, that sounds more like reality than fiction – that was my dad.
 
Jim Waterman
Group: vintageHO Message: 20916 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Looking for info on a children’s book
Too bad that that kind of thinking is today considered cruel, insensitive, and oppressive of the poor. 

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote:
 

Hmm, saving up to buy track and trains and earning them, that sounds more like reality than fiction – that was my dad.
 
Jim Waterman
 
Walter
Group: vintageHO Message: 20917 From: bitlerisvj Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi folks,
Check this listing out.
I don't know the actual value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the $194 Buy It Now price.  I am not complaining or anything, but just curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is.  
I picked up one of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung Buckeye trucks.  I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco going for much more than about $25 to $50?  The condition of mine is a bit on the low end.  No box and no instructions.  The back end frame mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little current for the old fashioned motor.  It will get a DCC decoder, I will just need to use the smallest decoder I can find.  I don't expect mine to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50 bucks.  Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
Group: vintageHO Message: 20918 From: Gary Mittner Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
thats the kind of sellers that make me laugh and sick at the same time. look at his other items and you will see he has no clue. an empty Key Imports box at 150.00? an MRC mag for 10.50? a box only for a tyco tank car 6.50? and yet he has over 3280 feedbacks. must sell a lot of non model train stuff to make a living on ebay. i now have to go check his completed auctions to see the ratio of his sale to list success. ---------- Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone


-----Original Message-----
From: bitlerisvj@...
Sent: 3/8/2013 2:22:10 PM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi folks,
Check this listing out.
I don't know the actual value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the $194 Buy It Now price.  I am not complaining or anything, but just curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is.  
I picked up one of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung Buckeye trucks.  I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco going for much more than about $25 to $50?  The condition of mine is a bit on the low end.  No box and no instructions.  The back end frame mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Ka dee couplers unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little current for the old fashioned motor.  It will get a DCC decoder, I will just need to use the smallest decoder I can find.  I don't expect mine to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50 bucks.  Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
Group: vintageHO Message: 20919 From: dwaite2000 Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
The body casting (and maybe the chassis) were made by Kemtron...Nothing
special that I know of.
I bought one in January at the Big E show for $10.00. Very nnice but
sadly lacking a motor (which I am looking for).

Dick
Group: vintageHO Message: 20920 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi Dick,
Sorry you did not get a motor.  When I got mine home, my first thought was to change out the motor to a can motor, since I do DCC.  But, upon examination, I am not sure there is any reasonable way to remotor this thing without extensive re-engineering.  The motor sits vertical to allow the worm to mesh with the axle gear just right and I suspect that even finding a worm to fit for this might be difficult.  If you don't find a motor for this thing and choose to create a new mount for a can motor, I will be happy to take measurements and photographs if you wish.  Truly, if you can find a new motor/worm/mount that would be best.
Good luck and regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: acace@...
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:36:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 
The body casting (and maybe the chassis) were made by Kemtron...Nothing
special that I know of.
I bought one in January at the Big E show for $10.00. Very nnice but
sadly lacking a motor (which I am looking for).

Dick

Group: vintageHO Message: 20921 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

Vic,

I erroneously wrote to this guy some time ago about his price on several brass locomotives and got a very heated reply.  If you watch the auctions closely, as I do for items I am familiar with, he has bought a few of these items on Ebay for low prices.  He says he reworks them though I suspect all he does is oil them and for some reason he honestly believes such attention increases the value by two to three hundred percent.  He said most sellers don't do this and that is one difference between what he sells and what others sell. His rant to me basically indicated I did not know what I was talking about and that he needed the money to pay bills.  At his prices he is not going to sell anything. I also like the manner in which he indicates his lower price is giving you a discount.  He was the topic of a few conversations I have read and has become the joke of several brass boards I monitor. 

He has several PFM V&T 4-6-0's for sale at ridiculous process.  Those were the subject of one of my remotoring projects shown on my Projects Page.  I doubt his run anywhere near as well as mine does yet he has his marked up to 2.5 times the normal selling price.  

In one of his listings for a NWSL 0-8-0, which is what first caught my attention,  he has the price marked as $499.  It was listed at that price three or four times then it was reduced to $399.  These normally sell for between $100 and $150 with most going for around $120.  One copy of this model offered by another seller did sell to an uninformed buyer for $201 in April 2012.  I am familiar with that model because I have five of them from the various runs and a friend has three and I know where three others reside and I know what we all paid for them over the years.   If you find this listing he has a video of this particular model running on an oval of track laid on a sheet of plywood.  It is running at warp speed with the poor side rods spinning like crazy.  I noted in my message to him that was not good for the side rods and that serious buyers were more concerned about the slow speed capabilities not how fast it would run. If you check out any of the video's on my Projects page which are usually attached to the last image in the particular project, you will note that I always show the slow speed capabilities of the model.   Since I had that conversation with him three of these have sold for prices around $120.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote:
>
> Hi folks,Check this listing
> out.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-\
> 228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228\
> -Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?> I don't know the actual
> value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the
> $194 Buy It Now price. I am not complaining or anything, but just
> curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is. I picked up one
> of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box
> with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung
> Buckeye trucks. I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco
> going for much more than about $25 to $50? The condition of mine is a
> bit on the low end. No box and no instructions. The back end frame
> mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers
> unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in
> really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little
> current for the old fashioned motor. It will get a DCC decoder, I will
> just need to use the smallest decoder I can find. I don't expect mine
> to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very
> good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50
> bucks. Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.Thanks and
> regards, Vic Bitleris
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20922 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi Denny,
I am with you all the way.  I really figured he was way off base.  I suspect that the word "Tenshodo" may be why he thinks he has something?  I know that Tenshodo made a lot of model railroad equipment that was not brass and definitely not that high end.  This is a good quality loco, but definitely not high end.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: cwrailman@...
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:14:38 +0000
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 

Vic,

I erroneously wrote to this guy some time ago about his price on several brass locomotives and got a very heated reply.  If you watch the auctions closely, as I do for items I am familiar with, he has bought a few of these items on Ebay for low prices.  He says he reworks them though I suspect all he does is oil them and for some reason he honestly believes such attention increases the value by two to three hundred percent.  He said most sellers don't do this and that is one difference between what he sells and what others sell. His rant to me basically indicated I did not know what I was talking about and that he needed the money to pay bills.  At his prices he is not going to sell anything. I also like the manner in which he indicates his lower price is giving you a discount.  He was the topic of a few conversations I have read and has become the joke of several brass boards I monitor. 

He has several PFM V&T 4-6-0's for sale at ridiculous process.  Those were the subject of one of my remotoring projects shown on my Projects Page.  I doubt his run anywhere near as well as mine does yet he has his marked up to 2.5 times the normal selling price.  

In one of his listings for a NWSL 0-8-0, which is what first caught my attention,  he has the price marked as $499.  It was listed at that price three or four times then it was reduced to $399.  These normally sell for between $100 and $150 with most going for around $120.  One copy of this model offered by another seller did sell to an uninformed buyer for $201 in April 2012.  I am familiar with that model because I have five of them from the various runs and a friend has three and I know where three others reside and I know what we all paid for them over the years.   If you find this listing he has a video of this particular model running on an oval of track laid on a sheet of plywood.  It is running at warp speed with the poor side rods spinning like crazy.  I noted in my message to him that was not good for the side rods and that serious buyers were more concerned about the slow speed capabilities not how fast it would run. If you check out any of the video's on my Projects page which are usually attached to the last image in the particular project, you will note that I always show the slow speed capabilities of the model.   Since I had that conversation with him three of these have sold for prices around $120.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote:
>
> Hi folks,Check this listing
> out.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-\
> 228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228\
> -Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?> I don't know the actual
> value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the
> $194 Buy It Now price. I am not complaining or anything, but just
> curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is. I picked up one
> of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box
> with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung
> Buckeye trucks. I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco
> going for much more than about $25 to $50? The condition of mine is a
> bit on the low end. No box and no instructions. The back end frame
> mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers
> unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in
> really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little
> current for the old fashioned motor. It will get a DCC decoder, I will
> just need to use the smallest decoder I can find. I don't expect mine
> to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very
> good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50
> bucks. Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.Thanks and
> regards, Vic Bitleris
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20923 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

Vic,

I personally do not have one of those 0-6-0T's however it always looked to me like the predecessor of the 0-8-0T later sold by NWSL and which I mentioned in my previous posting.  I found that on the NWSL brass version a 12mm x 15mm x 28mm flat can motor, the motor I show originally installed in the General remotoring project on my Projects page, will just fit if you remove the motor mount plate, mill the frame down slightly so the motor sits down a bit further and bend the electrical connections so they do not hit the cab roof.  The original motor worm is 2.4mm so you would need a NWSL bushing to increase the 1.5mm motor shaft to the ID of the worm.  Of course you could also replace the 28:1 worm gear and worm with a NWSL 36:1 which would lower the start and top speeds a bit.  I have dry fit all the parts and it would work.  Besides roof clearance you heed to watch the worm centerline to front of cab wall.  That interior dimension is very critical and again with the difference in thickness between the cast cab and the brass cab I am not sue if it would work in your cast body model.  That dimension from the back of the front cab wall to the centerline of the motor shaft needs to be half the motor width which in this case is 6mm.  I have not done this yet because mine all run quite well with the original motor on my DC system.  

By the way, any solution you use will also work on the Ken Kidder/LMB 2-6-2T locomotives as the motor to cab interior dimensions are quite similar.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dick,Sorry you did not get a motor. When I got mine home, my first thought was to change out the motor to a can motor, since I do DCC. But, upon examination, I am not sure there is any reasonable way to remotor this thing without extensive re-engineering. The motor sits vertical to allow the worm to mesh with the axle gear just right and I suspect that even finding a worm to fit for this might be difficult. If you don't find a motor for this thing and choose to create a new mount for a can motor, I will be happy to take measurements and photographs if you wish. Truly, if you can find a new motor/worm/mount that would be best.Good luck and regards,
> Vic Bitleris
> Raleigh, NC
>
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> From: acace@...
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:36:23 -0500
> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The body casting (and maybe the chassis) were made by Kemtron...Nothing
>
> special that I know of.
>
> I bought one in January at the Big E show for $10.00. Very nnice but
>
> sadly lacking a motor (which I am looking for).
>
>
>
> Dick
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20924 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

Dick,

As I noted, in a previous message I do not have one of those 0-6-0's however if you can con Vic or someone who does to send me an email with a few photo's of the motor.  It might be similar to the motors used in other tank loco's and I will see if I have one from a previous project.  No promises but I would look.   

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, acace@... wrote:
>
> The body casting (and maybe the chassis) were made by Kemtron...Nothing
> special that I know of.
> I bought one in January at the Big E show for $10.00. Very nnice but
> sadly lacking a motor (which I am looking for).
>
> Dick
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20925 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi folks,
I will be happy to photograph this thing as soon as I can, but that maybe next weekend, as I am flying to St. Louis for my job this weekend.  I hope I can scout out some Hobby Shops while I am in St. Louis, but not sure I will have the time, unless I sneak out early one day?  Sunday will be a free day for me.  I may go to the Union Station and the Arch anddo a bit of sightseeing, but it is supposed to rain all day.  Yuck!
Anyhow, if I can't get to it tomorrow, for sure next weekend I will collect photos and stuff.  The little loco actually runs pretty good with that ancient motor in it.  I think the Japanese must have been good at making little motors even back then?
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
From: cwrailman@...
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:50:59 +0000
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 

Dick,

As I noted, in a previous message I do not have one of those 0-6-0's however if you can con Vic or someone who does to send me an email with a few photo's of the motor.  It might be similar to the motors used in other tank loco's and I will see if I have one from a previous project.  No promises but I would look.   

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, acace@... wrote:
>
> The body casting (and maybe the chassis) were made by Kemtron...Nothing
> special that I know of.
> I bought one in January at the Big E show for $10.00. Very nnice but
> sadly lacking a motor (which I am looking for).
>
> Dick
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20926 From: Richard Carbo Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

You bring up one of my pet peeves. I frequently wonder where these people come up with the value of items they have for sale. I have been tempted to send the offenders e-mails in the hope of being of some help, but I hesitate because I think I will run into the same situation you have. The worst are the ones that list with exorbitant starting bids or buy it now bids and do so over and over again as if magically someone will agree to its worth and bid on it. Better still, if they took a little time to check completed auctions, they would see what the going rate is. Makes me wonder if they ever sell anything? Richard Carbo

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 11:15 AM
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 

 

Vic,

I erroneously wrote to this guy some time ago about his price on several brass locomotives and got a very heated reply.  If you watch the auctions closely, as I do for items I am familiar with, he has bought a few of these items on Ebay for low prices.  He says he reworks them though I suspect all he does is oil them and for some reason he honestly believes such attention increases the value by two to three hundred percent.  He said most sellers don't do this and that is one difference between what he sells and what others sell. His rant to me basically indicated I did not know what I was talking about and that he needed the money to pay bills.  At his prices he is not going to sell anything. I also like the manner in which he indicates his lower price is giving you a discount.  He was the topic of a few conversations I have read and has become the joke of several brass boards I monitor. 

He has several PFM V&T 4-6-0's for sale at ridiculous process.  Those were the subject of one of my remotoring projects shown on my Projects Page.  I doubt his run anywhere near as well as mine does yet he has his marked up to 2.5 times the normal selling price.  

In one of his listings for a NWSL 0-8-0, which is what first caught my attention,  he has the price marked as $499.  It was listed at that price three or four times then it was reduced to $399.  These normally sell for between $100 and $150 with most going for around $120.  One copy of this model offered by another seller did sell to an uninformed buyer for $201 in April 2012.  I am familiar with that model because I have five of them from the various runs and a friend has three and I know where three others reside and I know what we all paid for them over the years.   If you find this listing he has a video of this particular model running on an oval of track laid on a sheet of plywood.  It is running at warp speed with the poor side rods spinning like crazy.  I noted in my message to him that was not good for the side rods and that serious buyers were more concerned about the slow speed capabilities not how fast it would run. If you check out any of the video's on my Projects page which are usually attached to the last image in the particular project, you will note that I always show the slow speed capabilities of the model.   Since I had that conversation with him three of these have sold for prices around $120.

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote:
>
> Hi folks,Check this listing
> out.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-\
> 228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228\
> -Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?> I don't know the actual
> value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the
> $194 Buy It Now price. I am not complaining or anything, but just
> curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is. I picked up one
> of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box
> with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung
> Buckeye trucks. I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco
> going for much more than about $25 to $50? The condition of mine is a
> bit on the low end. No box and no instructions. The back end frame
> mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers
> unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in
> really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little
> current for the old fashioned motor. It will get a DCC decoder, I will
> just need to use the smallest decoder I can find. I don't expect mine
> to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very
> good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50
> bucks. Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.Thanks and
> regards, Vic Bitleris
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20927 From: cwrailman Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

In my case I do exactly what you said.  I check to see what the item sold for recently on Ebay.  I also check some of the major brass dealers to see what they are asking for the same items.  In addition, I keep records of sales through the year for items I own and are contemplating selling but that is another story.  Sources of pricing other than Ebay are less than reliable in reporting what the model actually sold for and there is no way to substantiate their claims.  If I do not want to accept an amount similar to recent Ebay sales I wait till the market improves.  Yes, there are certain times of the year that are traditionally more conducive to selling than others.

About a year ago we were watching as a PFM Decapod originally owned by John Allen's friend Jim Findley was up for auction.  As I recall the bidding started around $500.  Several bidders got into a bidding war and due to the fact that this was a historic model that had appeared on the G&D and in numerous photographs, the model sold for over $1,000.  Right after that, Ebay was loaded with PFM Frisco Decapods some with starting bids of $500 or more.  Prior to the Findley sale Decapods were selling any day for between $135 and $200.  Well, it took a while of sellers not getting any bids for them to calm down and start listing with more sensible expectations.  I recently sold a remotored PFM Decapod to a guy for $215 which I thought was fair considering the work of remotoring that had been done to it.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Carbo" <flyerguy3@...> wrote:
>
> You bring up one of my pet peeves. I frequently wonder where these people
> come up with the value of items they have for sale. I have been tempted to
> send the offenders e-mails in the hope of being of some help, but I hesitate
> because I think I will run into the same situation you have. The worst are
> the ones that list with exorbitant starting bids or buy it now bids and do
> so over and over again as if magically someone will agree to its worth and
> bid on it. Better still, if they took a little time to check completed
> auctions, they would see what the going rate is. Makes me wonder if they
> ever sell anything? Richard Carbo
Group: vintageHO Message: 20928 From: Glenn Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
it can be interesting to note what the asking prices are, then follow how many reductions until itg actually sold—In occasion I have contacted unsuccessful sellers with a “buy it now” offer on some of these overpriced items—gently pointing out factors that influence  my offer.  Sometimes I get them.  I don’t know if eBay likes that---
 
From: cwrailman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
 


In my case I do exactly what you said.  I check to see what the item sold for recently on Ebay.  I also check some of the major brass dealers to see what they are asking for the same items.  In addition, I keep records of sales through the year for items I own and are contemplating selling but that is another story.  Sources of pricing other than Ebay are less than reliable in reporting what the model actually sold for and there is no way to substantiate their claims.  If I do not want to accept an amount similar to recent Ebay sales I wait till the market improves.  Yes, there are certain times of the year that are traditionally more conducive to selling than others.

About a year ago we were watching as a PFM Decapod originally owned by John Allen's friend Jim Findley was up for auction.  As I recall the bidding started around $500.  Several bidders got into a bidding war and due to the fact that this was a historic model that had appeared on the G&D and in numerous photographs, the model sold for over $1,000.  Right after that, Ebay was loaded with PFM Frisco Decapods some with starting bids of $500 or more.  Prior to the Findley sale Decapods were selling any day for between $135 and $200.  Well, it took a while of sellers not getting any bids for them to calm down and start listing with more sensible expectations.  I recently sold a remotored PFM Decapod to a guy for $215 which I thought was fair considering the work of remotoring that had been done to it.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Carbo" <flyerguy3@...> wrote:
>
> You bring up one of my pet peeves. I frequently wonder
where these people
> come up with the value of items they have for sale. I
have been tempted to
> send the offenders e-mails in the hope of being of
some help, but I hesitate
> because I think I will run into the same
situation you have. The worst are
> the ones that list with exorbitant
starting bids or buy it now bids and do
> so over and over again as if
magically someone will agree to its worth and
> bid on it. Better still,
if they took a little time to check completed
> auctions, they would see
what the going rate is. Makes me wonder if they
> ever sell anything?
Richard Carbo
Group: vintageHO Message: 20929 From: James Bartelt Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: 18th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI 3-10-2013
Just a reminder that tomorrow is the Metro Model Railroad Clubs 18th Annual Model Train Show & Swap Meet at Circle B Recreation in Cedarburg, WI. Sunday March 10th, 9 AM - 4 PM.

Among the new features of this year's show will be an all new N scale layout by The Milwaukee `N Southeastern Model Railroad Club of Cudahy, WI. The club will bring their newly built popular N scale layout which has not been seen in Ozaukee County before. Also noted Railroad Author Jim Yanke from the C&NW Historical Society will be at the show in the morning signing copies of his book, The C&NW Airline Subdivision, which covers the C&NW line from Milwaukee to Fond Du Lac. The book has very detailed coverage of every location along the line...Granville, Rockfield, Jackson, West Bend, Barton, Siding BR, Kewaskum, Campbellsport, Eden, Eden Quarry and on into Fond Du Lac.
Among the new features of this year's show will be an HO scale layout by the West Bend Ballast Scorchers. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will again be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the trains. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. Other returnees include the Badgerland S Gaugers showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S scale trains that are currently available. The WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will be showing examples of G scale equipment that is commonly used to create outdoor garden railroads, and also some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on.
In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy,
sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Jerry Krug of the C&NWHS, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints.
Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader as well as Model Train Cars from ExactRail. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org.
Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, ExactRail, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Further details can be obtained by calling Jim Bartelt at 262-284-5876 or emailing at (jimbartelt@...).

--
James Bartelt
Metro Model Railroad Club Show Chairman

METRO RR Club
http://www.metrorrclub.org

METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2013
http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html
Group: vintageHO Message: 20930 From: Nelson Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
"He says he reworks them though I suspect all he does is oil them and for some reason he honestly believes such attention increases the value by two to three hundred percent."

Then he must have REALLY oiled this box:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOX-FOAM-ONLY-NO-BRASS-LOCO-Rare-Key-Imports-4-6-6-4-Challenger-Union-Pacific-/181080271568

He's become something of a running gag on a number of forums I belong to.

Nelson


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
>
>
> Vic,
>
> I erroneously wrote to this guy some time ago about his price on several
> brass locomotives and got a very heated reply. If you watch the
> auctions closely, as I do for items I am familiar with, he has bought a
> few of these items on Ebay for low prices. He says he reworks them
> though I suspect all he does is oil them and for some reason he honestly
> believes such attention increases the value by two to three hundred
> percent. He said most sellers don't do this and that is one difference
> between what he sells and what others sell. His rant to me basically
> indicated I did not know what I was talking about and that he needed the
> money to pay bills. At his prices he is not going to sell anything. I
> also like the manner in which he indicates his lower price is giving you
> a discount. He was the topic of a few conversations I have read and has
> become the joke of several brass boards I monitor.
>
> He has several PFM V&T 4-6-0's for sale at ridiculous process.
> Those were the subject of one of my remotoring projects shown on my
> Projects Page <http://www.cwrailman.com/> . I doubt his run anywhere
> near as well as mine does yet he has his marked up to 2.5 times the
> normal selling price.
>
> In one of his listings for a NWSL 0-8-0, which is what first caught my
> attention, he has the price marked as $499. It was listed at that
> price three or four times then it was reduced to $399. These normally
> sell for between $100 and $150 with most going for around $120. One
> copy of this model offered by another seller did sell to an uninformed
> buyer for $201 in April 2012. I am familiar with that model because I
> have five of them from the various runs and a friend has three and I
> know where three others reside and I know what we all paid for them over
> the years. If you find this listing he has a video of this particular
> model running on an oval of track laid on a sheet of plywood. It is
> running at warp speed with the poor side rods spinning like crazy. I
> noted in my message to him that was not good for the side rods and that
> serious buyers were more concerned about the slow speed capabilities not
> how fast it would run. If you check out any of the video's on my
> Projects page <http://www.cwrailman.com/> which are usually attached to
> the last image in the particular project, you will note that I always
> show the slow speed capabilities of the model. Since I had that
> conversation with him three of these have sold for prices around $120.
>
> Denny
Group: vintageHO Message: 20931 From: Nelson Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
I watch certain items go through numerous listings and price reductions too, and it's interesting how once the starting bid drops low enough, a bidding war can ensue.

I recently watched a Rivarossi B&O Big Six that a seller stubbornly set at $100 for a number of listings. Then he began dropping the price in $5 or $10 increments. When he finally hit $75, competing bids started and it went for $117 and change, even though one of those bidders could have had it for $85 just a few days before. Funny how that happens.

Nelson



--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
>
> it can be interesting to note what the asking prices are, then follow how many reductions until itg actually soldâ€"In occasion I have contacted unsuccessful sellers with a “buy it now” offer on some of these overpriced itemsâ€"gently pointing out factors that influence my offer. Sometimes I get them. I don’t know if eBay likes that---
>
> From: cwrailman
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 12:10 PM
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 20932 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Latest project
Had a good day at the Metro Club show in Cedarburg today (Thanks Roger &
James).

Got a couple very nice unbuilt Walters kits, a "phase 1" coach, (in a
Crestline box) and a 7500 series Milwaukee Electric interurban coach.
Half a dozen freight cars (Globe, Athearn metsl, Varney metal) some
newer stuff (A silver anniversary NS car, a Bowser bicentennial, a NS
box motor that appears scratchbuilt , some automobils (a couple Varney
fords, but what I have really been looking for for years, both the coupe
and convertible versions of the AHM/Angioplas Minicars '58 Edsels) but
the one that's going to be the most work, I have to back over Jim H's
series on the Walthers HH600. See if I can get this puppy back in service.

Don

--
Don Dellmann
don.dellmann@...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
  @@attachment@@
Group: vintageHO Message: 20933 From: Gary Mittner Date: 3/11/2013
Subject: The John Wilkes
List, anyone here want to "learn" me and others, more about the John Wilkes loco/tender and passenger car sets that were produced by AHM/Rivarossi and IHC? I know the Loco and tender were produced for only one year by Rivarossi. what about the passenger sets? Any produced by AHM or were they only produced by IHC? And which set was actually produced first for the John Wilkes, the 5 car heavy weights or the 5 car light weight set? And were they both imported by AHM, Rivarossi or IHC? Thanks, Gary

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone
Group: vintageHO Message: 20934 From: apo09324 Date: 3/11/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
The product number for Rail Line was 104 for the coil spring with draft gear and 105 for the same thing without draft gear. They were Model C. Extra springs were 111.

Ken Vandevoort

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "vancampbell64" <tehachapikid@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> Does anyone have or know of a source where I can get replacement couplers for the late 50's/early 60's coil spring type couplers for the rolling stock of this era? I had a couple of packages of Rail Line replacements at one time, but like a dummy, I discarded the packages so I have no idea what the product number was. Somebody's gotta be sitting on some of these! Thanks, Van.
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20935 From: Nelson Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: The John Wilkes
Gary,

The loco and coaches were produced by Rivarossi. The loco was tooled after the AHM years, and Rivarossi ended their partnership with Bernie Paul prior to IHC. I'm sure they were a 90's issue with a can motor, similar to their Milwaukee Hiawatha 4-6-4. They come in Rivarossi's own red box and were probably imported by Model Expo, their U.S. partner at the time.

They are nice looking models, even if the nose shroud isn't quite right. They go for ridiculous money when they turn up on eBay.

Nelson


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Mittner " <mittner@...> wrote:
>
> List, anyone here want to "learn" me and others, more about the John Wilkes loco/tender and passenger car sets that were produced by AHM/Rivarossi and IHC? I know the Loco and tender were produced for only one year by Rivarossi. what about the passenger sets? Any produced by AHM or were they only produced by IHC? And which set was actually produced first for the John Wilkes, the 5 car heavy weights or the 5 car light weight set? And were they both imported by AHM, Rivarossi or IHC? Thanks, Gary
>
> ----------
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20936 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: Athearn Yellow Box Era Couplers
Thank you for the info, Ken. Now for the fun part, finding somebody who's got some for sale! LOL! Van.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "apo09324" <apo09324@...> wrote:
>
> The product number for Rail Line was 104 for the coil spring with draft gear and 105 for the same thing without draft gear. They were Model C. Extra springs were 111.
>
> Ken Vandevoort
>
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "vancampbell64" <tehachapikid@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Does anyone have or know of a source where I can get replacement couplers for the late 50's/early 60's coil spring type couplers for the rolling stock of this era? I had a couple of packages of Rail Line replacements at one time, but like a dummy, I discarded the packages so I have no idea what the product number was. Somebody's gotta be sitting on some of these! Thanks, Van.
> >
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20937 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi All,
I have seen that guy's stuff for a while now.  I get a kick out of his use of the phrase "Tootsie Roller" ?? What?? 

His prices are quite inflated, for sure. I don't bother with trying to set people like that straight. 

Any time I have ever placed a Buy-It-Now on anything, I have always researched it first, or pulled from my own past sales of the same item. I find it strange though, especially lately. When I list an item at a BIN, I tend to try to be ~80% of what I had sold it for in the recent past (within a year). Sometimes, it still will still sit for months and not sell. It is hard to judge anymore. 

I had a pilot deck for a Mantua pacific/mikado sit for a month at a BIN of $14.99. That same month, one listed auction style was bid-up and sold for over $41. That's just about the same or more than what the average going rate is for a complete engine! 

It's just hard to judge!

I had listed both very nicely painted and good running Mantua post-war brass and diecast Pacific and an Atlantic. Three - four years ago, ones in similar condition were selling for $300 - $400. I could not get a single offer higher than $150.  Put them right back on the shelf. Then I see a poorly painted engine missing parts sell for almost $200. Go figure. That Mantua Consolidation that sold a few years back for $810 did not even have the right tender with it. It had the Bowser/Knapp cast brass Mountain tender with it. 

Oh well.. just keep chugging I guess. The world is crazy and we are all just part of what makes it that way. 
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

From: "bitlerisvj@..." <bitlerisvj@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:22 AM
Subject: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 
Hi folks,
Check this listing out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260? 
I don't know the actual value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the $194 Buy It Now price.  I am not complaining or anything, but just curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is.  
I picked up one of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung Buckeye trucks.  I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco going for much more than about $25 to $50?  The condition of mine is a bit on the low end.  No box and no instructions.  The back end frame mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little current for the old fashioned motor.  It will get a DCC decoder, I will just need to use the smallest decoder I can find.  I don't expect mine to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50 bucks.  Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris


Group: vintageHO Message: 20938 From: Charles Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
I think the nickname "tootsie roller" goes back a ways. Maybe way back. I assume it refers to a small tank engine due to similarity in shape to a tootsie roll.

It may have even been used in advertisements, perhaps by International or some early brass importer?

Chuck Kinzer

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I have seen that guy's stuff for a while now.  I get a kick out of his use of the phrase "Tootsie Roller" ?? What?? 
>
> His prices are quite inflated, for sure. I don't bother with trying to set people like that straight. 
>
> Any time I have ever placed a Buy-It-Now on anything, I have always researched it first, or pulled from my own past sales of the same item. I find it strange though, especially lately. When I list an item at a BIN, I tend to try to be ~80% of what I had sold it for in the recent past (within a year). Sometimes, it still will still sit for months and not sell. It is hard to judge anymore. 
>
> I had a pilot deck for a Mantua pacific/mikado sit for a month at a BIN of $14.99. That same month, one listed auction style was bid-up and sold for over $41. That's just about the same or more than what the average going rate is for a complete engine! 
>
> It's just hard to judge!
>
> I had listed both very nicely painted and good running Mantua post-war brass and diecast Pacific and an Atlantic. Three - four years ago, ones in similar condition were selling for $300 - $400. I could not get a single offer higher than $150.  Put them right back on the shelf. Then I see a poorly painted engine missing parts sell for almost $200. Go figure. That Mantua Consolidation that sold a few years back for $810 did not even have the right tender with it. It had the Bowser/Knapp cast brass Mountain tender with it. 
>
> Oh well.. just keep chugging I guess. The world is crazy and we are all just part of what makes it that way. 
>  
> Sean
>
>
> "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "bitlerisvj@..." <bitlerisvj@...>
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:22 AM
> Subject: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
>
>
>  
> Hi folks,
> Check this listing out.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260?%c3%82%c2%a0
> I don't know the actual value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the $194 Buy It Now price.  I am not complaining or anything, but just curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is.  
> I picked up one of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung Buckeye trucks.  I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco going for much more than about $25 to $50?  The condition of mine is a bit on the low end.  No box and no instructions.  The back end frame mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little current for the old fashioned motor.  It will get a DCC decoder, I will just need to use the smallest decoder I can find.  I don't expect mine to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50 bucks.  Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.
> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20939 From: shawmut_fan Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

Charles, you're right about the Tootsie Roller -- it was a late 40's import by International or one of its predecessors.  it followed no prototype -- sort of vaguely European -- and did not look very good and probably didn't run very well either.  Its only value is as a relic of the time long ago when "Made in Japan" meant something less than it does now.

 

I bought a Tenshodo 0-6-0T several months ago -- the seller had started it at $10 or so and I wanted on since the this was the first engine I had ever bought on my own.  For $8.95, I think, back in 1960.  In any event, I ended up getting it for $42.50 which I thought was a bit pricey but worth it for nostalgia's sake.  Apparently I don't move in Mr. Buy-It-Now's circle.

 

I've sold a lot of stuff on E-Bay by starting with a very low price and seeing where it goes.  Sometimes it doesn't go anywhere, like the box of Varney lead boilers that went for $5 -- the postage was many multiples of the purchase price.  On the other hand, a Kurtz-Kraft boxcar painted and lettered for the U. S. Army (it actually had a prototype that I caught on film when I was stationed at Fort Eustis) started at $1 and went for over $50!  

 

John B. Allyn



From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:18:22 AM
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 

I think the nickname "tootsie roller" goes back a ways. Maybe way back. I assume it refers to a small tank engine due to similarity in shape to a tootsie roll.

It may have even been used in advertisements, perhaps by International or some early brass importer?

Chuck Kinzer

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I have seen that guy's stuff for a while now.  I get a kick out of his use of the phrase "Tootsie Roller" ?? What?? 
>
> His prices are quite inflated, for sure. I don't bother with trying to set people like that straight. 
>
> Any time I have ever placed a Buy-It-Now on anything, I have always researched it first, or pulled from my own past sales of the same item. I find it strange though, especially lately. When I list an item at a BIN, I tend to try to be ~80% of what I had sold it for in the recent past (within a year). Sometimes, it still will still sit for months and not sell. It is hard to judge anymore. 
>
> I had a pilot deck for a Mantua pacific/mikado sit for a month at a BIN of $14.99. That same month, one listed auction style was bid-up and sold for over $41. That's just about the same or more than what the average going rate is for a complete engine! 
>
> It's just hard to judge!
>
> I had listed both very nicely painted and good running Mantua post-war brass and diecast Pacific and an Atlantic. Three - four years ago, ones in similar condition were selling for $300 - $400. I could not get a single offer higher than $150.  Put them right back on the shelf. Then I see a poorly painted engine missing parts sell for almost $200. Go figure. That Mantua Consolidation that sold a few years back for $810 did not even have the right tender with it. It had the Bowser/Knapp cast brass Mountain tender with it. 
>
> Oh well.. just keep chugging I guess. The world is crazy and we are all just part of what makes it that way. 
>  
> Sean
>
>
> "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "bitlerisvj@..." <bitlerisvj@...>
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:22 AM
> Subject: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
>
>
>  
> Hi folks,
> Check this listing out.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260? 
> I don't know the actual value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the $194 Buy It Now price.  I am not complaining or anything, but just curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is.  
> I picked up one of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung Buckeye trucks.  I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco going for much more than about $25 to $50?  The condition of mine is a bit on the low end.  No box and no instructions.  The back end frame mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little current for the old fashioned motor.  It will get a DCC decoder, I will just need to use the smallest decoder I can find.  I don't expect mine to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50 bucks.  Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.
> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
>

Group: vintageHO Message: 20940 From: cwrailman Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

Sean,

As you probably already know, I have found that there are seasons for selling and they are dependant on what you are selling.  Trains sell well from October through January, stall a bit in February and then resume from March through the fist few weeks of May and then stall through the summer months.  Motorcycles do not sell during the winter months.  Cars sell well during the normal auction months of January through May then fall off during the summer.

While many of us check Ebay on a regular basis some do not log on for months at a time.  That is why an item might not sell for months then one is listed that starts a bidding war.   I have had items that nobody even looked at then all of a sudden they drew a lot of attention.  One locomotive was listed five times an nobody even bid on it.  The fifth time the buyer used the higher priced BIN option.  Go figure.

I do remotoring projects that I feature on the Projects page of my WEB site.  One that I did a few months back was quite popular and shortly after I saw that the prices on similar brass engines went up about 25%.  I would like to think (A lot of vanity there folks) modelers were willing to pay the extra because my article and accompanying video showed how to make them run better but I am not sure.  

There must have been an article on four wheel bobbers recently because the prices on those went up a bit in the past few weeks.

By the way, this guy who has items listed for unreasonable prices has gotten to be the discussion and somewhat of a joke on several different brass boards.  His most recent listing of as Gem catalog at $60+ which normally sells on eBay for $5-10.  He does amuse us.  

Denny

Janitor in Training

CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

WEB site: CWRailman.com 

Facebook: CWRailman 


--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I have seen that guy's stuff for a while now.  I get a kick out of his use of the phrase "Tootsie Roller" ?? What?? 
>
> His prices are quite inflated, for sure. I don't bother with trying to set people like that straight. 
>
> Any time I have ever placed a Buy-It-Now on anything, I have always researched it first, or pulled from my own past sales of the same item. I find it strange though, especially lately. When I list an item at a BIN, I tend to try to be ~80% of what I had sold it for in the recent past (within a year). Sometimes, it still will still sit for months and not sell. It is hard to judge anymore. 
>
> I had a pilot deck for a Mantua pacific/mikado sit for a month at a BIN of $14.99. That same month, one listed auction style was bid-up and sold for over $41. That's just about the same or more than what the average going rate is for a complete engine! 
>
> It's just hard to judge!
>
> I had listed both very nicely painted and good running Mantua post-war brass and diecast Pacific and an Atlantic. Three - four years ago, ones in similar condition were selling for $300 - $400. I could not get a single offer higher than $150.  Put them right back on the shelf. Then I see a poorly painted engine missing parts sell for almost $200. Go figure. That Mantua Consolidation that sold a few years back for $810 did not even have the right tender with it. It had the Bowser/Knapp cast brass Mountain tender with it. 
>
> Oh well.. just keep chugging I guess. The world is crazy and we are all just part of what makes it that way. 
>  
> Sean
>
>
> "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "bitlerisvj@..." bitlerisvj@...
> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:22 AM
> Subject: [vintageHO] eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
>
>
>  
> Hi folks,
> Check this listing out.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Tenshodo-0-6-0-Tank-Loco-Kit-Form-Runs-228-Made-In-Tokyo-Japan-HO-0-6-0T-/310620750260? 
> I don't know the actual value, but I cannot conceive that this loco is worth anywhere near the $194 Buy It Now price.  I am not complaining or anything, but just curious as to what a reasonable value on this one is.  
> I picked up one of these last October for 5 bucks, which included a complete, in the box with instructions, Bowser Semi-Vanderbuilt tender with fully sprung Buckeye trucks.  I know I got a steal, but I still can't see the loco going for much more than about $25 to $50?  The condition of mine is a bit on the low end.  No box and no instructions.  The back end frame mount has been buggered by someone trying to mount Kadee couplers unsuccessfully, so it requires a bit of re-work, but the loco is in really good shape otherwise and runs very nicely, drawing very little current for the old fashioned motor.  It will get a DCC decoder, I will just need to use the smallest decoder I can find.  I don't expect mine to be valued as high as $25, because of its issues, but even in very good condition with a box and paperwork, I can't see much more than 50 bucks.  Any experts out there to shed better lighting on this.
> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 20941 From: Jim Heckard Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Still Here
On 3/14/2013 1:12 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
>
> H All,
>
>
> Still hanging in. Med Problem no better . Trying to watch eBay and
> comments from the group. Haven't bought anything in a long time . Have
> to watch closer for an addition for my vintage collection. Everyone
> take care and although a little while off HAPPY EASTER>
>
>
> Jim H
Group: vintageHO Message: 20942 From: John Hagen Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here

Good to hear from you Jim.

 

Sad to know your are still having such medical problems. Praying for some sort of relief for you.

 

Happy Easter to you also albeit I hope to see more posts from you in the meantime.

 

John Hagen

 

From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:13 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here

 

 


H All,

Still hanging in. Med Problem no better . Trying to watch eBay and
comments from the group. Haven't bought anything in a long time . Have
to watch closer for an addition for my vintage collection. Everyone take
care and although a little while off HAPPY EASTER>

Jim H

Group: vintageHO Message: 20943 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
Hi Denny,

Yup! I know the seasons well. My '67 & '69 Mustang parts are much cheaper to buy in the winter, when the trains are up. I sell trains year round and just roll with the punches. There are some pieces I just won't list in the 'off' months though. 

It is getting close to that slow time of the season for trains. Good time to buy, problem is I have too much and I can't hide them anymore. The pile has just gotten too big for my wife's liking. 
 
Sean

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:57 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

 
Sean,
As you probably already know, I have found that there are seasons for selling and they are dependant on what you are selling.  Trains sell well from October through January, stall a bit in February and then resume from March through the fist few weeks of May and then stall through the summer months.  Motorcycles do not sell during the winter months.  Cars sell well during the normal auction months of January through May then fall off during the summer.
While many of us check Ebay on a regular basis some do not log on for months at a time.  That is why an item might not sell for months then one is listed that starts a bidding war.   I have had items that nobody even looked at then all of a sudden they drew a lot of attention.  One locomotive was listed five times an nobody even bid on it.  The fifth time the buyer used the higher priced BIN option.  Go figure.
I do remotoring projects that I feature on the Projects page of my WEB site.  One that I did a few months back was quite popular and shortly after I saw that the prices on similar brass engines went up about 25%.  I would like to think (A lot of vanity there folks) modelers were willing to pay the extra because my article and accompanying video showed how to make them run better but I am not sure.  
There must have been an article on four wheel bobbers recently because the prices on those went up a bit in the past few weeks.
By the way, this guy who has items listed for unreasonable prices has gotten to be the discussion and somewhat of a joke on several different brass boards.  His most recent listing of as Gem catalog at $60+ which normally sells on eBay for $5-10.  He does amuse us.  
Denny
Janitor in Training
CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
WEB site: CWRailman.com 
Facebook: CWRailman 

Group: vintageHO Message: 20944 From: Richard Carbo Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here

Let me echo that sentiment. Hope you do start feeling better soon. Richard Carbo

 

From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hagen
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:45 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintageHO] RE: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here

 

 

Good to hear from you Jim.

 

Sad to know your are still having such medical problems. Praying for some sort of relief for you.

 

Happy Easter to you also albeit I hope to see more posts from you in the meantime.

 

John Hagen

 

From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:13 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Still Here

 

 


H All,

Still hanging in. Med Problem no better . Trying to watch eBay and
comments from the group. Haven't bought anything in a long time . Have
to watch closer for an addition for my vintage collection. Everyone take
care and although a little while off HAPPY EASTER>

Jim H

Group: vintageHO Message: 20945 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: For my chocolate loving friends
Attachments :

      A train made entirely of chocolate has set a new Guinness World Record

    as the longest chocolate structure in the world.

    The sculpture, on display at the busy Brussels South

    station, is 112-feet (34.05 meters) long and weighs

    over 2,755 pounds (1250 kilos)

    Maltese chocolate artist Andrew Farrugia spent

    over 700 hours constructing the masterpiece.

    He said he came up with the idea of the train last year after

    visiting the Belgian Chocolate Festival in Bruge: "I had this idea for a while,

    and I said

    what do you think if we do this realisation of a long chocolate train,

    you know, because a train you can make it as long as you like.

    "Actually it was going to be much smaller than it was, but I kept on

    adding another wagon, and another wagon, and it's the size it is today."

    Farrugia had previously built a smaller train of 12 feet for an

    event in Malta, which he said gave him insight about how to build

    this much larger version.

    There are two parts to the train. The first seven wagons

    are modelled after the new Belgian trains, and the rest of the train

    is modelled after the old train wagons, including a wagon with a bar

    and restaurant on board.

    Three days before the event, Farrugia transported the chocolate

    train by truck in 25 wooden boxes from Malta to Belgium .

    Farrugia said the train incurred considerable damage during the drive

    and several of the train's walls had completely collapsed. Luckily, with hard

    work and little sleep, the chocolate artist was able to fix all the damages

    before presenting the train to the public on Monday.

    After measuring the length of the train and confirming no material other than

    chocolate was used, officials from the Guinness Book of World Records

    added a new category to the collection of world records and declared the

    train to be the longest chocolate structure in the world.



















     

     


    Walter
    Group: vintageHO Message: 20947 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/14/2013
    Subject: Re: For my chocolate loving friends
    Very interesting, and looks delicious!

    When I was a kid, I would take tootsie rolls, press them into other shapes if needed and make crude little trains that way, then eat the train, locomotive, tender, then cars, then caboose. When we all were little babies, mothers would feed kids and say "Here comes the train going into the tunnel". Well, this would be a more literal definition!

    -Steve NEubaum

    --- On Thu, 3/14/13, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

    From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...>
    Subject: [vintageHO] For my chocolate loving friends
    To:
    Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 5:42 PM

     

      A train made entirely of chocolate has set a new Guinness World Record

    as the longest chocolate structure in the world.

    The sculpture, on display at the busy Brussels South

    station, is 112-feet (34.05 meters) long and weighs

    over 2,755 pounds (1250 kilos)

    Maltese chocolate artist Andrew Farrugia spent

    over 700 hours constructing the masterpiece.

    He said he came up with the idea of the train last year after

    visiting the Belgian Chocolate Festival in Bruge: "I had this idea for a while,

    and I said

    what do you think if we do this realisation of a long chocolate train,

    you know, because a train you can make it as long as you like.

    "Actually it was going to be much smaller than it was, but I kept on

    adding another wagon, and another wagon, and it's the size it is today."

    Farrugia had previously built a smaller train of 12 feet for an

    event in Malta, which he said gave him insight about how to build

    this much larger version.

    There are two parts to the train. The first seven wagons

    are modelled after the new Belgian trains, and the rest of the train

    is modelled after the old train wagons, including a wagon with a bar

    and restaurant on board.

    Three days before the event, Farrugia transported the chocolate

    train by truck in 25 wooden boxes from Malta to Belgium .

    Farrugia said the train incurred considerable damage during the drive

    and several of the train's walls had completely collapsed. Luckily, with hard

    work and little sleep, the chocolate artist was able to fix all the damages

    before presenting the train to the public on Monday.

    After measuring the length of the train and confirming no material other than

    chocolate was used, officials from the Guinness Book of World Records

    added a new category to the collection of world records and declared the

    train to be the longest chocolate structure in the world.



















     

     


    Walter
    Group: vintageHO Message: 20948 From: Dale Smith Date: 3/15/2013
    Subject: Re: [SFMuniHistory] (unknown)
    My apologies for this email.  I changed my password about an hour after this and another email were sent.  I normally use an email client rather than webmail, but this hack took my contact list from the yahoo webmail site.   The only reason it had contacts in it was from the rare occasions when I used webmail when I was away from my main computer or laptop.  I have now taken the precaution of deleting the contacts at the webmail site and plan on keeping it that way.  I was busy taking care of that for all the email accounts I use and just became aware of this additional email now.

    Dale
    On 3/14/2013 5:03 PM, Smith Dale wrote:
     

    Group: vintageHO Message: 20949 From: Richard Carbo Date: 3/15/2013
    Subject: Re: For my chocolate loving friends
    Attachments :

      That is one beautiful, big and I’m sure tasty train. Richard

       

      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II
      Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:43 PM
      To: undisclosed-recipients:
      Subject: [vintageHO] For my chocolate loving friends

       

       

        A train made entirely of chocolate has set a new Guinness World Record

      as the longest chocolate structure in the world.

      The sculpture, on display at the busy Brussels South

      station, is 112-feet (34.05 meters) long and weighs

      over 2,755 pounds (1250 kilos)

      Maltese chocolate artist Andrew Farrugia spent

      over 700 hours constructing the masterpiece.

      He said he came up with the idea of the train last year after

      visiting the Belgian Chocolate Festival in Bruge: "I had this idea for a while,

      and I said

      what do you think if we do this realisation of a long chocolate train,

      you know, because a train you can make it as long as you like.

      "Actually it was going to be much smaller than it was, but I kept on

      adding another wagon, and another wagon, and it's the size it is today."

      Farrugia had previously built a smaller train of 12 feet for an

      event in Malta, which he said gave him insight about how to build

      this much larger version.

      There are two parts to the train. The first seven wagons

      are modelled after the new Belgian trains, and the rest of the train

      is modelled after the old train wagons, including a wagon with a bar

      and restaurant on board.

      Three days before the event, Farrugia transported the chocolate

      train by truck in 25 wooden boxes from Malta to Belgium .

      Farrugia said the train incurred considerable damage during the drive

      and several of the train's walls had completely collapsed. Luckily, with hard

      work and little sleep, the chocolate artist was able to fix all the damages

      before presenting the train to the public on Monday.

      After measuring the length of the train and confirming no material other than

      chocolate was used, officials from the Guinness Book of World Records

      added a new category to the collection of world records and declared the

      train to be the longest chocolate structure in the world.



















       

       

       

      Walter

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20950 From: Jim Ruef Date: 3/15/2013
      Subject: Re: For my chocolate loving friends
      I gained 10lbs and my cholestrol went up just looking at the pictures. 

      From: Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; 'undisclosed-recipients:'@...
      Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 9:54 AM
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] For my chocolate loving friends
       
      That is one beautiful, big and I’m sure tasty train. Richard
       
      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II
      Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:43 PM
      To: undisclosed-recipients:
      Subject: [vintageHO] For my chocolate loving friends
       
       
        A train made entirely of chocolate has set a new Guinness World Record
      as the longest chocolate structure in the world.
      The sculpture, on display at the busy Brussels South
      station, is 112-feet (34.05 meters) long and weighs
      over 2,755 pounds (1250 kilos)
      Maltese chocolate artist Andrew Farrugia spent
      over 700 hours constructing the masterpiece.
      He said he came up with the idea of the train last year after
      visiting the Belgian Chocolate Festival in Bruge: "I had this idea for a while,
      and I said
      what do you think if we do this realisation of a long chocolate train,
      you know, because a train you can make it as long as you like.
      "Actually it was going to be much smaller than it was, but I kept on
      adding another wagon, and another wagon, and it's the size it is today."
      Farrugia had previously built a smaller train of 12 feet for an
      event in Malta, which he said gave him insight about how to build
      this much larger version.
      There are two parts to the train. The first seven wagons
      are modelled after the new Belgian trains, and the rest of the train
      is modelled after the old train wagons, including a wagon with a bar
      and restaurant on board.
      Three days before the event, Farrugia transported the chocolate
      train by truck in 25 wooden boxes from Malta to Belgium .
      Farrugia said the train incurred considerable damage during the drive
      and several of the train's walls had completely collapsed. Luckily, with hard
      work and little sleep, the chocolate artist was able to fix all the damages
      before presenting the train to the public on Monday.
      After measuring the length of the train and confirming no material other than
      chocolate was used, officials from the Guinness Book of World Records
      added a new category to the collection of world records and declared the
      train to be the longest chocolate structure in the world.


















       
       
       
      Walter
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20951 From: frank Date: 3/15/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....

      The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.

      Frank Bongiovanni
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20952 From: Charles Date: 3/15/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      This is not one of those. It is one of the ubiquitous Tenshodo cast models.

      Chuck Kinzer

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      >
      > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      >
      > Frank Bongiovanni
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20953 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/15/2013
      Subject: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      Please excuse my cross-posting this.

      The power cord on my Dremel #2 died up and disintegrated, so I decided to rewire it. That wasn't too hard ... except, now it doesn't work at all. I have been trying to disassemble it completely, but I can't figure out how. Has anyone done it and remember what to do? Do you have a wiring diagram?

      --
      Regards,
      Walter
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20954 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      Best bet is to ship it back to Dremel—they have a great repair/replacement policy—for a nominal charge they will send you a new one—even on ones I got at yard sales--
       
      gj
       
      Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:17 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
       


      Please excuse my cross-posting this.

      The power cord on my Dremel #2 died up and disintegrated, so I decided to rewire it. That wasn't too hard ... except, now it doesn't work at all. I have been trying to disassemble it completely, but I can't figure out how. Has anyone done it and remember what to do? Do you have a wiring diagram?

      --
      Regards,
      Walter
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20955 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/15/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      This is the first Tenshodo import as far as I know it to be. The AC version dates from ~1949

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630695444170/with/7622144186/
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Charles <ckinzer@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:10 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

       
      This is not one of those. It is one of the ubiquitous Tenshodo cast models.

      Chuck Kinzer

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      >
      > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      >
      > Frank Bongiovanni
      >



      Group: vintageHO Message: 20956 From: ablecynic Date: 3/16/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      I have one of those. It is brass, uses a drive almost identical to the ones used later by Kidder, and has brass rimmed drivers. It appears to be a copy of a US loco that was used in the UK for dock service during WWII. It has some distinctly British elements but with the obvious US chassis. It also appears to be made to British OO (1:76) but running on 16.5mm HO track ala Hornby and most other British R-T-R.

      I took a couple of photos with my iPhone and put them in a file at this link:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/list

      Matt Coleman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      >
      > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      >
      > Frank Bongiovanni
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20957 From: trainliker Date: 3/16/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      It looks like yours has spoked wheels and most of the photos I see of the earliest ones have solid wheels.  It's hard to know just when these little changes occurred.
       
      Chuck Kinzer
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ablecynic
      Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:24 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

       

      I have one of those. It is brass, uses a drive almost identical to the ones used later by Kidder, and has brass rimmed drivers. It appears to be a copy of a US loco that was used in the UK for dock service during WWII. It has some distinctly British elements but with the obvious US chassis. It also appears to be made to British OO (1:76) but running on 16.5mm HO track ala Hornby and most other British R-T-R.

      I took a couple of photos with my iPhone and put them in a file at this link:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/list

      Matt Coleman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      >
      > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      >
      > Frank Bongiovanni
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20958 From: ablecynic Date: 3/16/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      Chuck,

      Your comment made me wonder if we are comparing apples to oranges. I confess that I am not an expert in any way regarding old HO, but I have some pieces of it (mostly because I am old.) I just added three photos to my "Tootsieroller" album of another old loco I have that has solid drivers. I thought this was a on-of-a-kind freak until I saw another one for sale on eBay. Could this be the true "Tootsieroller?" or could the chassis from this be under the other superstructure in the International catalog?

      Here is the link to one of the three new photos:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/944055848/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

      and a Tiny URL of the same thing.

      http://tinyurl.com/bylfyd9

      For all I know, I am completely wrong about what the Tootsieroller looked like. Any information any wants to share would be greatly appreciated.

      Matt Coleman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote:
      >
      > It looks like yours has spoked wheels and most of the photos I see of the earliest ones have solid wheels. It's hard to know just when these little changes occurred.
      >
      > Chuck Kinzer
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: ablecynic
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:24 AM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      >
      >
      >
      > I have one of those. It is brass, uses a drive almost identical to the ones used later by Kidder, and has brass rimmed drivers. It appears to be a copy of a US loco that was used in the UK for dock service during WWII. It has some distinctly British elements but with the obvious US chassis. It also appears to be made to British OO (1:76) but running on 16.5mm HO track ala Hornby and most other British R-T-R.
      >
      > I took a couple of photos with my iPhone and put them in a file at this link:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/list
      >
      > Matt Coleman
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      > >
      > > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      > >
      > > Frank Bongiovanni
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20959 From: trainliker Date: 3/16/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      I wonder if the one without side tanks had a tender at one time.  The solid wheel mechanism is what I think I have usually seen under photos of the early "tootsie rollers".
       
      You have to hand it to whoever dreamed up that name - it is catchy.
       
      Chuck Kinzer
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ablecynic
      Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 1:55 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

       

      Chuck,

      Your comment made me wonder if we are comparing apples to oranges. I confess that I am not an expert in any way regarding old HO, but I have some pieces of it (mostly because I am old.) I just added three photos to my "Tootsieroller" album of another old loco I have that has solid drivers. I thought this was a on-of-a-kind freak until I saw another one for sale on eBay. Could this be the true "Tootsieroller?" or could the chassis from this be under the other superstructure in the International catalog?

      Here is the link to one of the three new photos:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/944055848/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

      and a Tiny URL of the same thing.

      http://tinyurl.com/bylfyd9

      For all I know, I am completely wrong about what the Tootsieroller looked like. Any information any wants to share would be greatly appreciated.

      Matt Coleman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote:
      >
      > It looks like yours has spoked wheels and most of the photos I see of the earliest ones have solid wheels. It's hard to know just when these little changes occurred.
      >
      > Chuck Kinzer
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: ablecynic
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:24 AM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      >
      >
      >
      > I have one of those. It is brass, uses a drive almost identical to the ones used later by Kidder, and has brass rimmed drivers. It appears to be a copy of a US loco that was used in the UK for dock service during WWII. It has some distinctly British elements but with the obvious US chassis. It also appears to be made to British OO (1:76) but running on 16.5mm HO track ala Hornby and most other British R-T-R.
      >
      > I took a couple of photos with my iPhone and put them in a file at this link:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/list
      >
      > Matt Coleman
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      > >
      > > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      > >
      > > Frank Bongiovanni
      > >
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20960 From: cwrailman Date: 3/18/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

      If you want to see what the original Tootsie Roller model looked like go to this auction. 

      http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PRODUCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb9J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

      There were many other models sold after that based on similar mechanisms but this was the original design.  

      That guy on Ebay that we have been talking about lists everything with a 0-6-0 wheel arrangement as a Tootsie Roller.  He would probably list a dog as a horse because they both have four legs if he had one to sell.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote:
      >
      > I wonder if the one without side tanks had a tender at one time. The solid wheel mechanism is what I think I have usually seen under photos of the early "tootsie rollers".
      >
      > You have to hand it to whoever dreamed up that name - it is catchy.
      >
      > Chuck Kinzer
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: ablecynic
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 1:55 PM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      >
      >
      >
      > Chuck,
      >
      > Your comment made me wonder if we are comparing apples to oranges. I confess that I am not an expert in any way regarding old HO, but I have some pieces of it (mostly because I am old.) I just added three photos to my "Tootsieroller" album of another old loco I have that has solid drivers. I thought this was a on-of-a-kind freak until I saw another one for sale on eBay. Could this be the true "Tootsieroller?" or could the chassis from this be under the other superstructure in the International catalog?
      >
      > Here is the link to one of the three new photos:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/944055848/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
      >
      > and a Tiny URL of the same thing.
      >
      > http://tinyurl.com/bylfyd9
      >
      > For all I know, I am completely wrong about what the Tootsieroller looked like. Any information any wants to share would be greatly appreciated.
      >
      > Matt Coleman
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, ckinzer@ wrote:
      > >
      > > It looks like yours has spoked wheels and most of the photos I see of the earliest ones have solid wheels. It's hard to know just when these little changes occurred.
      > >
      > > Chuck Kinzer
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: ablecynic
      > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:24 AM
      > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I have one of those. It is brass, uses a drive almost identical to the ones used later by Kidder, and has brass rimmed drivers. It appears to be a copy of a US loco that was used in the UK for dock service during WWII. It has some distinctly British elements but with the obvious US chassis. It also appears to be made to British OO (1:76) but running on 16.5mm HO track ala Hornby and most other British R-T-R.
      > >
      > > I took a couple of photos with my iPhone and put them in a file at this link:
      > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/144641657/pic/list
      > >
      > > Matt Coleman
      > >
      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <bongiovanni1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > If memory serves (and that is decreasingly likely)an 0-6-0 marketed (by International?)as "Tootsie Roller" in the late 1940's or early 1950's is shown in some reference material as the first brass locomotive formally (i.e. not GI custom)imported into this country. If this is, in fact, one of those, there is a certain historical value there. Not, in my mind, anywhere near what the seller is asking, but....
      > > >
      > > > The lack of documentation for a lot of the early brass is frustrating and part of the fun. Just like getting some of it to run.
      > > >
      > > > Frank Bongiovanni
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20961 From: ablecynic Date: 3/19/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      Denny,

      Thanks for the post! I had wondered what I had and it is clear that the two locos I have are not "tootsie rollers" although one clearly has some mechanical parts in common with this loco.

      Matt

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > If you want to see what the original Tootsie Roller model looked like go
      > to this auction.
      >
      > http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PROD\
      > UCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb9\
      > J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
      > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PRO\
      > DUCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb\
      > 9J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557>
      >
      > There were many other models sold after that based on similar mechanisms
      > but this was the original design.
      >
      > That guy on Ebay that we have been talking about lists everything with a
      > 0-6-0 wheel arrangement as a Tootsie Roller. He would probably list a
      > dog as a horse because they both have four legs if he had one to sell.
      >
      > Denny
      >
      > Janitor in Training
      >
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      >
      > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      >
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20962 From: cwrailman Date: 3/19/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

      Matt,

      That term Tootsie Roller has been the topic of much discussion over the years.  Many sellers have used the term to describe the item they had for sale and most used it incorrectly.  The one I showed the link to is a well documented Tootsie Roller as they have the original blue print to go with the model.

      By the way, while I have never seen one of the Tootsie Roller loco's in person, the same company sold some 4-4-0's that were quite oversize for HO but supposedly were used by guys modeling S scale narrow gauge.  I had accidentally purchased one many years ago and quickly resold it to some S scale modelers.     

      Getting back to what started this conversation, the model that we were originally talking about  had a zamic body and was one of the first models PFM brought in from Tenshodo.  A similar model was sold by Kemtron.  I do not know if Kemtron supplied the mechanism for Tenshodo or the other way around.    

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Denny,
      >
      > Thanks for the post! I had wondered what I had and it is clear that the two locos I have are not "tootsie rollers" although one clearly has some mechanical parts in common with this loco.
      >
      > Matt
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > If you want to see what the original Tootsie Roller model looked like go
      > > to this auction.
      > >
      > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PROD\
      > > UCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb9\
      > > J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
      > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PRO\
      > > DUCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb\
      > > 9J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557>
      > >
      > > There were many other models sold after that based on similar mechanisms
      > > but this was the original design.
      > >
      > > That guy on Ebay that we have been talking about lists everything with a
      > > 0-6-0 wheel arrangement as a Tootsie Roller. He would probably list a
      > > dog as a horse because they both have four legs if he had one to sell.
      > >
      > > Denny
      > >
      > > Janitor in Training
      > >
      > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      > >
      > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      > >
      > > Facebook: CWRailman
      > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20963 From: ablecynic Date: 3/19/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0
      Denny,

      As always, thanks for sharing what you know! I happen to have two of those old 4-4-0s that you mentioned. I had loaned them to a friend to see if they could be converted to exact Sn3 -- his assessment was that they could not be narrowed so he is sending them back. Given that they are tender drive and drive the rear axle in the loco, they are appallingly bad runners.

      As for those Zamac 0-6-0s, from what I have learned, those are the final remnants of small and loosely affiliated family manufacturing businesses that made the early post-war die cast locos for AHC/Aristocraft. Through a series of buyouts and mergers, these grouped together to become two larger companies -- Tenshodo and United -- both of whom got into the brass business and were major suppliers to PFM as we all know. But they also had connections to Kemtron and from what I heard years ago from Cliff Grandt, of Grandt Line who worked closely with Mr. Kemlyon, was that Kemtron got quite a bit of their mechanisms, drivers, and castings from this same group of model manufacturers. So your guess as to whether Kemtron supplied the mechanism for the 0-6-0 or the other way around may never be known, but we can be pretty sure it was one of those two options.

      Matt



      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Matt,
      >
      > That term Tootsie Roller has been the topic of much discussion over the
      > years. Many sellers have used the term to describe the item they had
      > for sale and most used it incorrectly. The one I showed the link to is
      > a well documented Tootsie Roller as they have the original blue print to
      > go with the model.
      >
      > By the way, while I have never seen one of the Tootsie Roller loco's
      > in person, the same company sold some 4-4-0's that were quite
      > oversize for HO but supposedly were used by guys modeling S scale narrow
      > gauge. I had accidentally purchased one many years ago and quickly
      > resold it to some S scale modelers.
      >
      > Getting back to what started this conversation, the model that we were
      > originally talking about had a zamic body and was one of the first
      > models PFM brought in from Tenshodo. A similar model was sold by
      > Kemtron. I do not know if Kemtron supplied the mechanism for Tenshodo
      > or the other way around.
      >
      > Denny
      >
      > Janitor in Training
      >
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      >
      > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Denny,
      > >
      > > Thanks for the post! I had wondered what I had and it is clear that
      > the two locos I have are not "tootsie rollers" although one clearly has
      > some mechanical parts in common with this loco.
      > >
      > > Matt
      > >
      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > If you want to see what the original Tootsie Roller model looked
      > like go
      > > > to this auction.
      > > >
      > > >
      > http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PROD\
      > \
      > > >
      > UCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb9\
      > \
      > > > J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
      > > >
      > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BRASS-TOOTSIE-ROLLER-INTERNATIONAL-MODEL-PRO\
      > \
      > > >
      > DUCTS-LOCOMOTIVE-TRAIN-5-DAY-/181088210287?nma=true&si=uRD0686udehJgJeLb\
      > \
      > > > 9J0DHTJKzY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557>
      > > >
      > > > There were many other models sold after that based on similar
      > mechanisms
      > > > but this was the original design.
      > > >
      > > > That guy on Ebay that we have been talking about lists everything
      > with a
      > > > 0-6-0 wheel arrangement as a Tootsie Roller. He would probably list
      > a
      > > > dog as a horse because they both have four legs if he had one to
      > sell.
      > > >
      > > > Denny
      > > >
      > > > Janitor in Training
      > > >
      > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      > > >
      > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      > > >
      > > > Facebook: CWRailman
      > > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20964 From: cwrailman Date: 3/19/2013
      Subject: Re: eBay listing for Tenshodo 0-6-0

      Matt,

      The problem with those old 4-4-0's loco's was the gears used.  If you replace that gearbox with one from United as I show in the RIP Track Rescue of an old PFM V&T 4-6-0 shown on my Projects page, and install a motor like I did in that project it will run extremely nicely. There is a video attached to one of the images in the middle of that presentation showing how the reworked V&T loco ran with the new motor and the video attached to the last image shows how it runs with the new motor and a rebuilt United gearbox installed.  

      As far as tender drive mechanisms, you can also see a project I did on remotoring the Mantua/Tyco General.  That was shown in my 02/23/2013 Blog.  That tender driven loco now performs as well as many brass locomotives and there is a link at the end of that presentation showing it running with a brass loco

      However, while the running characteristics of that early brass 4-4-0 loco can be improved substantially, a more serious issue with those loco's was the center of the drivers disintegrating.  Guys who wanted to run those loco's replaced all the drivers and wheels.

      I am surprised that your friend was not able to do the Sn3 thing as I have seen several of them converted in that manner.  It does require slightly longer axles In fact, the previous owner had started to do such a conversion to that V&T Loco shown in the RIP Track Rescue project.  He failed to complete the project and I picked the item up as a basket case.  I had to replace the trucks under the tender and the pony wheels and bring the drivers back into HO standard gauge.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Denny,
      >
      > As always, thanks for sharing what you know! I happen to have two of those old 4-4-0s that you mentioned. I had loaned them to a friend to see if they could be converted to exact Sn3 -- his assessment was that they could not be narrowed so he is sending them back. Given that they are tender drive and drive the rear axle in the loco, they are appallingly bad runners.
      >
      > As for those Zamac 0-6-0s, from what I have learned, those are the final remnants of small and loosely affiliated family manufacturing businesses that made the early post-war die cast locos for AHC/Aristocraft. Through a series of buyouts and mergers, these grouped together to become two larger companies -- Tenshodo and United -- both of whom got into the brass business and were major suppliers to PFM as we all know. But they also had connections to Kemtron and from what I heard years ago from Cliff Grandt, of Grandt Line who worked closely with Mr. Kemlyon, was that Kemtron got quite a bit of their mechanisms, drivers, and castings from this same group of model manufacturers. So your guess as to whether Kemtron supplied the mechanism for the 0-6-0 or the other way around may never be known, but we can be pretty sure it was one of those two options.
      >
      > Matt
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20965 From: Mr Larry L. Doub Date: 3/20/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      I can't find it right now, I had a thing for my Dremal 395 type 3, place you could get parts, the main shaft in mine let go and I can get a new one there for 15.00.. showed the diagram for it as well.
      when I find it again I'll come post it.

      No sending it in isn't an option I want, cause they would more then likely replace it, and these new models I'm not impressed with at all.

      Larry L. Doub

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
      >
      > Best bet is to ship it back to Dremelâ€"they have a great repair/replacement policyâ€"for a nominal charge they will send you a new oneâ€"even on ones I got at yard sales--
      >
      > gj
      >
      > From: Walter Bayer II
      > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:17 PM
      > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; traintools@...
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      >
      >
      >
      > Please excuse my cross-posting this.
      >
      > The power cord on my Dremel #2 died up and disintegrated, so I decided to rewire it. That wasn't too hard ... except, now it doesn't work at all. I have been trying to disassemble it completely, but I can't figure out how. Has anyone done it and remember what to do? Do you have a wiring diagram?
      >
      > --
      > Regards,
      > Walter
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20966 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 3/20/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      Larry,

      I think you are right. The old ones were made of sterner stuff. The new ones have had cost taken out of them (the euphemism for cheapened).

      On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> wrote:
       

      I can't find it right now, I had a thing for my Dremal 395 type 3, place you could get parts, the main shaft in mine let go and I can get a new one there for 15.00.. showed the diagram for it as well.
      when I find it again I'll come post it.

      No sending it in isn't an option I want, cause they would more then likely replace it, and these new models I'm not impressed with at all.

      Larry L. Doub

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
      >
      > Best bet is to ship it back to Dremelâ€"they have a great repair/replacement policyâ€"for a nominal charge they will send you a new oneâ€"even on ones I got at yard sales--
      >
      > gj
      >
      > From: Walter Bayer II
      > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:17 PM
      > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; traintools@...
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      >
      >
      >
      > Please excuse my cross-posting this.
      >
      > The power cord on my Dremel #2 died up and disintegrated, so I decided to rewire it. That wasn't too hard ... except, now it doesn't work at all. I have been trying to disassemble it completely, but I can't figure out how. Has anyone done it and remember what to do? Do you have a wiring diagram?
      >
      > --
      > Regards,
      > Walter
      >




      --
      Regards,
      Walter
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20967 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/20/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      This thread interests me.  I have one older Dremel that is beginning to make noise.  Perhaps a bearing? 

      Has anyone successfully disassembled an older Dremel?  I wonder if some parts are generic, like bearings, that would have a bearing mfg's part number on it?  (Something like pulling a bearing out of your car trailer and taking it to NAPA and buying a replacement via the bearing's part number stamped on it) 

      Dennis


      At 12:56 PM 3/20/2013, you wrote:


      Larry,

      I think you are right. The old ones were made of sterner stuff. The new ones have had cost taken out of them (the euphemism for cheapened).

      On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@... > wrote:
       

      I can't find it right now, I had a thing for my Dremal 395 type 3, place you could get parts, the main shaft in mine let go and I can get a new one there for 15.00.. showed the diagram for it as well.
      when I find it again I'll come post it.

      No sending it in isn't an option I want, cause they would more then likely replace it, and these new models I'm not impressed with at all.

      Larry L. Doub

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
      >
      > Best bet is to ship it back to Dremelâ€"they have a great repair/replacement policyâ€"for a nominal charge they will send you a new oneâ€"even on ones I got at yard sales--
      >
      > gj
      >
      > From: Walter Bayer II
      > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:17 PM
      > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; traintools@...
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      > >
      > Please excuse my cross-posting this.
      >
      > The power cord on my Dremel #2 died up and disintegrated, so I decided to rewire it. That wasn't too hard ... except, now it doesn't work at all. I have been trying to disassemble it completely, but I can't figure out how. Has anyone done it and remember what to do? Do you have a wiring diagram?
      >
      > --
      > Regards,
      > Walter
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20968 From: don lemas Date: 3/20/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
      give it up and toss it they are not worth rebuilding, by the time you buy all the parts you are in to it for more then if you bought a new one
       
      Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:11 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2
       
       

      I can't find it right now, I had a thing for my Dremal 395 type 3, place you could get parts, the main shaft in mine let go and I can get a new one there for 15.00.. showed the diagram for it as well.
      when I find it again I'll come post it.

      No sending it in isn't an option I want, cause they would more then likely replace it, and these new models I'm not impressed with at all.

      Larry L. Doub

      --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:

      >
      > Best bet is to ship it back
      to Dremelâ€"they have a great repair/replacement policyâ€"for a nominal charge they will send you a new oneâ€"even on ones I got at yard sales--
      >
      > gj
      >
      > From: Walter Bayer II
      > Sent: Friday, March
      15, 2013 12:17 PM
      > To:
      href="mailto:yardbirdtrains%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:yardbirdtrains%40yahoogroups.com ; mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com ; traintools@...
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Fixing an old power tool, a
      Dremel Model #2
      >
      >
      >
      > Please excuse my
      cross-posting this.
      >
      > The power cord on my Dremel #2 died up and
      disintegrated, so I decided to rewire it. That wasn't too hard ... except, now it doesn't work at all. I have been trying to disassemble it completely, but I can't figure out how. Has anyone done it and remember what to do? Do you have a wiring diagram?
      >
      > --
      > Regards,
      >
      Walter
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20969 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/20/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2



      On 3/20/2013 3:15 PM, Dennis Thompson wrote:
      This thread interests me.  I have one older Dremel that is beginning to make noise.  Perhaps a bearing? 

      Has anyone successfully disassembled an older Dremel?  I wonder if some parts are generic, like bearings, that would have a bearing mfg's part number on it?  (Something like pulling a bearing out of your car trailer and taking it to NAPA and buying a replacement via the bearing's part number stamped on it) 

      Dennis

      I've lost 2 Dremels in the last 30 years, when the second one fried I got a Ryobi.  about 25% less expensive and a lot more rugged.

      The top speed is a little slower than the Dremel, but still very satisfactory.  I seldom run it full out anyway.

      Don

      -- 
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20970 From: cwrailman Date: 3/20/2013
      Subject: Re: Fixing an old power tool, a Dremel Model #2

      Oh Don!!  That sounds nasty.  Working on vintage models with a Ryobi?  Not sure that's allowed. :)

      I hear about people going through a Dremel rotary tool.  I do not know what you guys are doing that puts so much wear on the tool.  I have my original single speed Dremel Model 280 ball bearing unit with both the foot operated throttle as well as the table mount variable speed box, and a Sears unit that was made here in the USA by Dremel in the early 1980's and both units run well.  Periodically I lube the shaft with a drop of oil but that is about it.  I have even used these on small automotive related projects.  What are you guys doing with them?

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On 3/20/2013 3:15 PM, Dennis Thompson wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > This thread interests me. I have one older Dremel that is beginning
      > > to make noise. Perhaps a bearing?
      > >
      > > Has anyone successfully disassembled an older Dremel? I wonder if
      > > some parts are generic, like bearings, that would have a bearing mfg's
      > > part number on it? (Something like pulling a bearing out of your car
      > > trailer and taking it to NAPA and buying a replacement via the
      > > bearing's part number stamped on it)
      > >
      > > Dennis
      > >
      > >
      > I've lost 2 Dremels in the last 30 years, when the second one fried I
      > got a Ryobi. about 25% less expensive and a lot more rugged.
      >
      > The top speed is a little slower than the Dremel, but still very
      > satisfactory. I seldom run it full out anyway.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --
      > Don Dellmann
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20971 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/23/2013
      Subject: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Does anyone have any recollection as to the many incarnations of the early Athearn Gear Drives? Specifically, when did Athearn change from the needlepoint axle to the bronze bushed type? Did this change coincide with the change from the "Hi-F" motor to the ubiquitous "Blue Box Era" motor? I've got about a dozen of these drives in both F-7 and GP-9 incarnations in various stages of completion. Some trucks have "herringbone" gears and brass wheels, some have straight gears and iron wheels, etc. Driving me mad! I never knew there were so many different variations just within this period! Then you have the white versus black plastic on the later motors! Good Grief! This is what you need a book to document for those who wish to collect and restore these older Athearn pieces. Any help would be deeply appreciated! Thanks, Van.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20972 From: Glenn Date: 3/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      The gear drive came first, All die cast Zamak, Oilite bearings throughout,
      nylon "dogbone" universals--and a brute of a motor. Had my last one with me
      in the Army back in DC in 1966--used to operate it on the MSME club Had a
      Pittman DC-85 motor and a Varney Zamak F-3 shell
      gj

      -----Original Message-----
      From: vancampbell64
      Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:52 PM
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive

      Does anyone have any recollection as to the many incarnations of the early
      Athearn Gear Drives? Specifically, when did Athearn change from the
      needlepoint axle to the bronze bushed type? Did this change coincide with
      the change from the "Hi-F" motor to the ubiquitous "Blue Box Era" motor?
      I've got about a dozen of these drives in both F-7 and GP-9 incarnations in
      various stages of completion. Some trucks have "herringbone" gears and brass
      wheels, some have straight gears and iron wheels, etc. Driving me mad! I
      never knew there were so many different variations just within this period!
      Then you have the white versus black plastic on the later motors! Good
      Grief! This is what you need a book to document for those who wish to
      collect and restore these older Athearn pieces. Any help would be deeply
      appreciated! Thanks, Van.



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20973 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Hello Glenn,
      Yes, those early gear drive are freaking monsters indeed, and you are correct in that they are the first gear drives offered. I have found that this drive is most often referred to as a "Globe/Athearn Drive". The only reference I've found for it is in the 1957 Athearn Catalog listing both single and dual drive versions. I'm fortunate enough to have a pair of the dual drive units and an example of the single drive unit also. I've seen GP-9 versions of these drives and even have a "dummy" chassis for one but I've not seen an actual listing in an Athearn catalog for such.

      But, back to my original questions, the gear drives I'm referring to are the "tower type" drives that were introduced in the 1960 Athearn Catalog as Ready-To-run items in the train sets of the period and in the 1961-1962 catalog listed as individual items. These had the "ball and slide" type universals, the delrin gear housings and the two piece Zamac truck sideframes.

      I must admit that everything I know, or claim to know about these old Athearn pieces, is through corresponding with other collectors or through my own research and hands-on experience, as these models are older than I am! LOL! So, please, correct me if I'm wrong or mis-informed on any of these issues! Thanks, Van.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
      >
      > The gear drive came first, All die cast Zamak, Oilite bearings throughout,
      > nylon "dogbone" universals--and a brute of a motor. Had my last one with me
      > in the Army back in DC in 1966--used to operate it on the MSME club Had a
      > Pittman DC-85 motor and a Varney Zamak F-3 shell
      > gj
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: vancampbell64
      > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:52 PM
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      >
      > Does anyone have any recollection as to the many incarnations of the early
      > Athearn Gear Drives? Specifically, when did Athearn change from the
      > needlepoint axle to the bronze bushed type? Did this change coincide with
      > the change from the "Hi-F" motor to the ubiquitous "Blue Box Era" motor?
      > I've got about a dozen of these drives in both F-7 and GP-9 incarnations in
      > various stages of completion. Some trucks have "herringbone" gears and brass
      > wheels, some have straight gears and iron wheels, etc. Driving me mad! I
      > never knew there were so many different variations just within this period!
      > Then you have the white versus black plastic on the later motors! Good
      > Grief! This is what you need a book to document for those who wish to
      > collect and restore these older Athearn pieces. Any help would be deeply
      > appreciated! Thanks, Van.
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20974 From: lewis.ted16 Date: 3/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Has anyone found a modern replacement for the hi-f rubber bands? I mean a more advanced elastic that might last a long time.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
      >
      > The gear drive came first, All die cast Zamak, Oilite bearings throughout,
      > nylon "dogbone" universals--and a brute of a motor. Had my last one with me
      > in the Army back in DC in 1966--used to operate it on the MSME club Had a
      > Pittman DC-85 motor and a Varney Zamak F-3 shell
      > gj
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: vancampbell64
      > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:52 PM
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      >
      > Does anyone have any recollection as to the many incarnations of the early
      > Athearn Gear Drives? Specifically, when did Athearn change from the
      > needlepoint axle to the bronze bushed type? Did this change coincide with
      > the change from the "Hi-F" motor to the ubiquitous "Blue Box Era" motor?
      > I've got about a dozen of these drives in both F-7 and GP-9 incarnations in
      > various stages of completion. Some trucks have "herringbone" gears and brass
      > wheels, some have straight gears and iron wheels, etc. Driving me mad! I
      > never knew there were so many different variations just within this period!
      > Then you have the white versus black plastic on the later motors! Good
      > Grief! This is what you need a book to document for those who wish to
      > collect and restore these older Athearn pieces. Any help would be deeply
      > appreciated! Thanks, Van.
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20975 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Dental elastics have worked well for others. In fact the now vintage Arvid Anderson......... no, that's the wrong name, they were contemporaries. Anyway circa 1960 drives with those bands are still good today.

      I suspect that the substitute 'rubber' bands we see in the stores today are made of that stuff as well. It sure looks like the same stuff.

      At any rate, the size you need is in production today.

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA



      On Mar 24, 2013, at 5:22 PM, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote:

      > Has anyone found a modern replacement for the hi-f rubber bands? I mean a more advanced elastic that might last a long time.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20976 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Train Show Varney salvage
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.

      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.

      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.

      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).

      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.

      Dennis in E WA state
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20977 From: larry Smith Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Current RMC
      Has anyone seen the latest RMC. It has an article on modeling from the
      1950s with photos of vintage equipment in it.

      Larry Smith
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20978 From: Mike Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Current RMC
      Yes, it is a nice article with a few good pictures, but it doesn't begin
      to really cover the subject. There is so much material to cover that it
      would take many more pages to do justice to the wonderful world of '50s
      and 60's model railroading (and the great people who make it all happen).

      Mike

      On 3/25/2013 10:50 AM, larry Smith wrote:
      > Has anyone seen the latest RMC. It has an article on modeling from
      > the 1950s with photos of vintage equipment in it.
      >
      > Larry Smith
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20979 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
      Let's  see some pictures Dennis!

      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:09 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage

       
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.

      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.

      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.

      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).

      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.

      Dennis in E WA state



      Group: vintageHO Message: 20980 From: Nelson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Most Walmarts have these clear hair bands by Goody.

      http://www.walmart.com/ip/Goody-Clear-3-Different-Sizes-Hair-Rubber-Bands-1-ct/12018417

      The medium or large sizes are perfect for Hi-f units. I've had them in some RDC's for about 4 years and they show no sign of hardening or deterioration. (They also make the best traction tires for large steam that I've found. The small ones work for diesels, but tend to be uneven.)

      http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Athearn/DSCF1688-1024x625.jpg

      Together with that big 24 volt motor, they are actually reliable low speed runners.

      Nelson


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote:
      >
      > Has anyone found a modern replacement for the hi-f rubber bands? I mean a more advanced elastic that might last a long time.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20981 From: Nelson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Van,

      I obtained a big box of early Athearn drives a few years ago and was amazed at the number of iterations they went through. It included a Globe F7 Dual Drive with the large motor, which was probably the smoothest drive Athearn ever made, but most are early 60's (I assume) knock-offs of the Globe design with noisy, coarse gearing. There are diagrams on HOSeeker for these that just refer to them as the 60's gear drive.

      As you mentioned some of the spur gears are straight toothed, while others are herringbone. Some have brass bushings for the top spur gear, others don't. Most have the old Hi-F motor, which is surprisingly weak for powering a gear train. One GP9 chassis has the oval Jet motor, and runs strong albeit loudly. A sheet on HOSeeker dates this to 1964.

      Then there are a number of versions of the standard arrangement we know today with the worm at the top of the gear tower, but with heavy wire U clips that hold the truck halves together.

      It would be nice to be able to put them all on a time timeline, but I haven't seen diagrams for some of these versions anywhere. Obviously it took Irv a while to come up with the blue box design we're all familiar with.

      Nelson



      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "vancampbell64" <tehachapikid@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Glenn,
      > Yes, those early gear drive are freaking monsters indeed, and you are correct in that they are the first gear drives offered. I have found that this drive is most often referred to as a "Globe/Athearn Drive". The only reference I've found for it is in the 1957 Athearn Catalog listing both single and dual drive versions. I'm fortunate enough to have a pair of the dual drive units and an example of the single drive unit also. I've seen GP-9 versions of these drives and even have a "dummy" chassis for one but I've not seen an actual listing in an Athearn catalog for such.
      >
      > But, back to my original questions, the gear drives I'm referring to are the "tower type" drives that were introduced in the 1960 Athearn Catalog as Ready-To-run items in the train sets of the period and in the 1961-1962 catalog listed as individual items. These had the "ball and slide" type universals, the delrin gear housings and the two piece Zamac truck sideframes.
      >
      > I must admit that everything I know, or claim to know about these old Athearn pieces, is through corresponding with other collectors or through my own research and hands-on experience, as these models are older than I am! LOL! So, please, correct me if I'm wrong or mis-informed on any of these issues! Thanks, Van.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20982 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      I recently got a gear drive with the Hi-F motor. Actually runs pretty well. Looks like what they did was flip the motor upside down so that the spline connections sit level.

      I've got a bunch of Hi-F locomotives. I like them because they couple close to each other, as they should.

      Here's what I did to upgrade them:

      Motor shaft ends get squared off from round. Then a piece of square brass tubing is slipped over it. This replaces the rubber coupling. The other end of the square tubing connects to a brass rod shaft, which replaces the thinner steel rod. The steel tends to be corroded or pitted, which cuts into replacement belts after a while. The brass rod is covered with heat shrink tubing, which is heated up. Where the old rod ran through the mount over the truck center, that is cut so that the brass rod sits atop it, The tubing is cut away at the support mount. The belts get much better grip on the heatshrink material, and the locomotive runs much better, much smoother.

      Bit of work for each unit, but I enjoy taking a basic model, one that is largely overlooked, and turning it into a reliable performer!

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:

      From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 1:20 PM

       

      Van,

      I obtained a big box of early Athearn drives a few years ago and was amazed at the number of iterations they went through. It included a Globe F7 Dual Drive with the large motor, which was probably the smoothest drive Athearn ever made, but most are early 60's (I assume) knock-offs of the Globe design with noisy, coarse gearing. There are diagrams on HOSeeker for these that just refer to them as the 60's gear drive.

      As you mentioned some of the spur gears are straight toothed, while others are herringbone. Some have brass bushings for the top spur gear, others don't. Most have the old Hi-F motor, which is surprisingly weak for powering a gear train. One GP9 chassis has the oval Jet motor, and runs strong albeit loudly. A sheet on HOSeeker dates this to 1964.

      Then there are a number of versions of the standard arrangement we know today with the worm at the top of the gear tower, but with heavy wire U clips that hold the truck halves together.

      It would be nice to be able to put them all on a time timeline, but I haven't seen diagrams for some of these versions anywhere. Obviously it took Irv a while to come up with the blue box design we're all familiar with.

      Nelson

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "vancampbell64" <tehachapikid@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Glenn,
      > Yes, those early gear drive are freaking monsters indeed, and you are correct in that they are the first gear drives offered. I have found that this drive is most often referred to as a "Globe/Athearn Drive". The only reference I've found for it is in the 1957 Athearn Catalog listing both single and dual drive versions. I'm fortunate enough to have a pair of the dual drive units and an example of the single drive unit also. I've seen GP-9 versions of these drives and even have a "dummy" chassis for one but I've not seen an actual listing in an Athearn catalog for such.
      >
      > But, back to my original questions, the gear drives I'm referring to are the "tower type" drives that were introduced in the 1960 Athearn Catalog as Ready-To-run items in the train sets of the period and in the 1961-1962 catalog listed as individual items. These had the "ball and slide" type universals, the delrin gear housings and the two piece Zamac truck sideframes.
      >
      > I must admit that everything I know, or claim to know about these old Athearn pieces, is through corresponding with other collectors or through my own research and hands-on experience, as these models are older than I am! LOL! So, please, correct me if I'm wrong or mis-informed on any of these issues! Thanks, Van.

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20983 From: cwrailman Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Reworking a Vintage 2-8-0

      In the late 50's to early 60's there were hundreds of these little 2-8-0's sold by Aristo Craft, Gem, and Akane.  Check out the latest project from the California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild Shops to see how we breath new life into one of these vintage models using a flat can motor recently acquired from an Ebay seller.  My 03/22/2013 blog deals with stripping a similar model.  

      How many of you out there have these models sitting around?

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20984 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage

      OK.  Just got home.  Shot some quick photos and put a dozen of them in the Photos section here,  under Photo Section, entitled, "Varney Rescue, Dennis."  These are all taken of the two models, AS FOUND.  I've done nothing yet and have not taken anything apart. 

      The Mike shows the frame mis-alignment.   It does appear to be have the brass boiler casting and is slightly lighter in weight than the Econ Pacific.  I certainly didn't buy this one for a great frame. 

      Any comments about versions, vintage/dates, mis-matching, or what tenders they really are would be appreciated.  The seller thought the Pacific tender was a Mantua. 

      Whew.  Not at all sure my money was placed right. 

      Dennis




      At 10:46 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      Let's  see some pictures Dennis!

      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:09 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage

       
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.

      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.

      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.

      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).

      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.

      Dennis in E WA state
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20985 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
      The New Haven tender is Mantua.

      Got an economy Pacific, and once I fixed some wiring issues and cleaned the motor, it became a great passenger engine.

      Mine came with a brass (Or similar) tender, twelve wheel design. They were also offered with Vanderbilt oil tenders, which is also correct so far as the prototype. Is based on a Southern Pacific design, and California law prevented using coal in steam locomotives.


      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 8:10 PM

       


      OK.  Just got home.  Shot some quick photos and put a dozen of them in the Photos section here,  under Photo Section, entitled, "Varney Rescue, Dennis."  These are all taken of the two models, AS FOUND.  I've done nothing yet and have not taken anything apart. 

      The Mike shows the frame mis-alignment.   It does appear to be have the brass boiler casting and is slightly lighter in weight than the Econ Pacific.  I certainly didn't buy this one for a great frame. 

      Any comments about versions, vintage/dates, mis-matching, or what tenders they really are would be appreciated.  The seller thought the Pacific tender was a Mantua. 

      Whew.  Not at all sure my money was placed right. 

      Dennis




      At 10:46 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      Let's  see some pictures Dennis!

      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:09 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage

       
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.

      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.

      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.

      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).

      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.

      Dennis in E WA state

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20986 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
      Thanks, Steve.  That helps.  Do you know what locomotive Mantua sold using this tender?

      I'm going to do some digging.  I think I have a medium sized Vanderbilt tender, but it might be Mantua. 

      I really need to get back to looking for Varney stuff again.  Even if this one does turn out good, a, "Super," version would make a nice running mate.

      Dennis



      At 06:28 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      The New Haven tender is Mantua.

      Got an economy Pacific, and once I fixed some wiring issues and cleaned the motor, it became a great passenger engine.

      Mine came with a brass (Or similar) tender, twelve wheel design. They were also offered with Vanderbilt oil tenders, which is also correct so far as the prototype. Is based on a Southern Pacific design, and California law prevented using coal in steam locomotives.


      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 8:10 PM

       


      OK.  Just got home.  Shot some quick photos and put a dozen of them in the Photos section here,  under Photo Section, entitled, "Varney Rescue, Dennis."  These are all taken of the two models, AS FOUND.  I've done nothing yet and have not taken anything apart. 

      The Mike shows the frame mis-alignment.   It does appear to be have the brass boiler casting and is slightly lighter in weight than the Econ Pacific.  I certainly didn't buy this one for a great frame. 

      Any comments about versions, vintage/dates, mis-matching, or what tenders they really are would be appreciated.  The seller thought the Pacific tender was a Mantua. 

      Whew.  Not at all sure my money was placed right. 

      Dennis




      At 10:46 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      Let's  see some pictures Dennis!

      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:09 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage

       
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.

      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.

      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.

      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).

      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.

      Dennis in E WA state



      Group: vintageHO Message: 20987 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
      They included it with their Pacifics and Mikados at least. Yours is an early version with metal tender body and frame. Later on they made the tender body of plastic. I think very early versions used four wheel trucks, but your trucks are not Mantua's. Not sure if the mounts were different when they went to six wheel trucks.

      Overall I think you got a fairly good deal, provided you're willing and able to put the time and work into these. I personally enjoy restoring basket cases, just to say I can do it if nothing else.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 9:36 PM

       

      Thanks, Steve.  That helps.  Do you know what locomotive Mantua sold using this tender?

      I'm going to do some digging.  I think I have a medium sized Vanderbilt tender, but it might be Mantua. 

      I really need to get back to looking for Varney stuff again.  Even if this one does turn out good, a, "Super," version would make a nice running mate.

      Dennis



      At 06:28 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      The New Haven tender is Mantua.

      Got an economy Pacific, and once I fixed some wiring issues and cleaned the motor, it became a great passenger engine.

      Mine came with a brass (Or similar) tender, twelve wheel design. They were also offered with Vanderbilt oil tenders, which is also correct so far as the prototype. Is based on a Southern Pacific design, and California law prevented using coal in steam locomotives.


      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 8:10 PM

       


      OK.  Just got home.  Shot some quick photos and put a dozen of them in the Photos section here,  under Photo Section, entitled, "Varney Rescue, Dennis."  These are all taken of the two models, AS FOUND.  I've done nothing yet and have not taken anything apart. 

      The Mike shows the frame mis-alignment.   It does appear to be have the brass boiler casting and is slightly lighter in weight than the Econ Pacific.  I certainly didn't buy this one for a great frame. 

      Any comments about versions, vintage/dates, mis-matching, or what tenders they really are would be appreciated.  The seller thought the Pacific tender was a Mantua. 

      Whew.  Not at all sure my money was placed right. 

      Dennis




      At 10:46 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      Let's  see some pictures Dennis!

      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:09 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage

       
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.

      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.

      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.

      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).

      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.

      Dennis in E WA state



      Group: vintageHO Message: 20988 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Train Show Varney salvage
      Thanks.  I have several Mantua locomotives so I'll have to research them again.

      I think I'll enjoy working on these Varney's.  In recent years, most of our pets have been from rescue groups.  A rescue is often a lot of work, but satisfying. 

      Dennis


      At 07:59 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      They included it with their Pacifics and Mikados at least. Yours is an early version with metal tender body and frame. Later on they made the tender body of plastic. I think very early versions used four wheel trucks, but your trucks are not Mantua's. Not sure if the mounts were different when they went to six wheel trucks.

      Overall I think you got a fairly good deal, provided you're willing and able to put the time and work into these. I personally enjoy restoring basket cases, just to say I can do it if nothing else.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 9:36 PM

       

      Thanks, Steve.  That helps.  Do you know what locomotive Mantua sold using this tender?

      I'm going to do some digging.  I think I have a medium sized Vanderbilt tender, but it might be Mantua. 

      I really need to get back to looking for Varney stuff again.  Even if this one does turn out good, a, "Super," version would make a nice running mate.

      Dennis



      At 06:28 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      The New Haven tender is Mantua.

      Got an economy Pacific, and once I fixed some wiring issues and cleaned the motor, it became a great passenger engine.

      Mine came with a brass (Or similar) tender, twelve wheel design. They were also offered with Vanderbilt oil tenders, which is also correct so far as the prototype. Is based on a Southern Pacific design, and California law prevented using coal in steam locomotives.


      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 3/25/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 8:10 PM
       

      OK.  Just got home.  Shot some quick photos and put a dozen of them in the Photos section here,  under Photo Section, entitled, "Varney Rescue, Dennis."  These are all taken of the two models, AS FOUND.  I've done nothing yet and have not taken anything apart. 
      The Mike shows the frame mis-alignment.   It does appear to be have the brass boiler casting and is slightly lighter in weight than the Econ Pacific.  I certainly didn't buy this one for a great frame. 
      Any comments about versions, vintage/dates, mis-matching, or what tenders they really are would be appreciated.  The seller thought the Pacific tender was a Mantua. 
      Whew.  Not at all sure my money was placed right. 
      Dennis



      At 10:46 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:


      Let's  see some pictures Dennis!
      Sean
      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:09 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Train Show Varney salvage
       
      I was overcome with emotions yesterday at a train show when I came
      across a pair of sad Varney locomotives crying for a new home. So I
      rescued them. I wonder what I got myself into............

      One is apparently a Varney Economy Pacific with what might be the
      wrong tender. I can see a brass, stamped frame under it and the main
      gear is exposed.
      The second is a 2-8-2 with brass/bronze boiler. I fear the frame
      near the cylinders might be broken as the pilot deck and cylinders
      cant upward some from that point. Or it's Zamac rot. Driver set
      still sits straight. The underside shows a cast frame with cover
      plate. It was too late last night to pull my Varney book to
      look. My head has not been into Varney for a while so I couldn't
      remember if the brass cast boiler locomotives were usually made with
      cast frames or not. Who ever had these locomotives apparently mixed
      and modified their locomotive stable, so who knows by now. The Mike
      came with a full wood tender wrapped, apparently, with embossed paper
      sides. Drilled wood tender body has weights pushed into it. I can't
      believe this tender is right for the locomotive either.
      Wife has had health issues and am taking her for MRI today so don't
      know when I can get photos taken. Also need to remember how to deal
      with photos; probably put them in album here.
      For a long time I've wanted a Varney, "Super," version of just about
      any wheel arrangement. I never seem to snag one or can't afford it
      when they come up on ebay. At least this Econ Pacific is a step in
      the right direction depending on how much is wrong or what is
      missing, (like maybe the right tender).
      Oh, I paid $35 for the Pacific and $30 for the Mike. I am worried
      about the Mike's frame, but figured I'd throw the money at the brass
      boiler casting. I'd just sold something at the Show, so had the
      money. Not sure if I got a good value or not, but........ah, well.
      Dennis in E WA state



      Group: vintageHO Message: 20989 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/25/2013
      Subject: trouble registering at tycoforums...
      I guess I've never been a member of tycoforums. Tonight I tried to
      register several times. Their, "anti-spam," question is: what is
      ocyt spelled backwards? So I answer tyco. It bounces; says I'm in error.

      For those of you who might be on that forum, am I missing something
      with their trick question?

      And I see no way to contact their forum administrator.

      Dennis
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20990 From: dave sandulli Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Gerber Billboard reefers
      It is generally assumed that the "blue" Gerber paint scheme has a basis in reality, i.e., did really exist. Although, to my knowledge, no color photo of the real car has been found.
      My question is did the "pink" paint scheme really exist or is that a pigment (pun intended) of a model train sales manager imagination? The graphics layout is somewhat different from the blue version so even a black and white photo would show that it did exist.
      Anybody know the answer?
      Thanks,
      Dave Sandulli
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20991 From: corlissbs Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
      Black and white photos do exist for these cars and probably the painting diagrams do also, either at the car builder or at the lessee. (Gerber in this case)  Such is the case for the Narragansett beer car.  Red Ball made the car sides and others made RTR cars in HO, however they only made one side of the car!  Both sides were different, as per the painting and lettering diagrams.  Atlas is the only model maker that got the car correct, as they worked off the drawings and not the photograph.
       
      Brad Smith
      Franklin,WI
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20992 From: William Anderson Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
      Dennis,
       
      I read their response as "We are not accepting new members at this time. Please go away".
       
      Bill Anderson
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 9:44 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] trouble registering at tycoforums...

       

      I guess I've never been a member of tycoforums. Tonight I tried to
      register several times. Their, "anti-spam," question is: what is
      ocyt spelled backwards? So I answer tyco. It bounces; says I'm in error.

      For those of you who might be on that forum, am I missing something
      with their trick question?

      And I see no way to contact their forum administrator.

      Dennis

      Group: vintageHO Message: 20993 From: corlissbs Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
      I had the same problem with the word and couldn't join.  I wrote to them and it has been several months now, with no reply.  Too bad
       
      Brad Smith
      Franklin,WI
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20994 From: tom bell Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
      The answer seems to be ocyt !

      ~Not sure of the loging in that.......

      Tom 


      On 26 March 2013 19:54, <corlissbs@...> wrote:
       

      I had the same problem with the word and couldn't join.  I wrote to them and it has been several months now, with no reply.  Too bad
       
      Brad Smith
      Franklin,WI


      Group: vintageHO Message: 20995 From: corlissbs Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
      The answer seems to be ocyt !
       
      No, I tried that too.
       
      Brad Smith
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20996 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...

      Thanks everyone.  Maybe I'm not completely crazy. 

      However,  !!!!   Tom,  - you are RIGHT.  ocyt did it.  I'm in.  I'm not sure it all makes sense, but...................Maybe this will help others too.

      Whew.

      Dennis

      At 12:22 PM 3/26/2013, you wrote:


      The answer seems to be ocyt !

      ~Not sure of the loging in that.......

      Tom


      On 26 March 2013 19:54, <corlissbs@...> wrote:
       

      I had the same problem with the word and couldn't join.  I wrote to them and it has been several months now, with no reply.  Too bad
       
      Brad Smith
      Franklin,WI
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20997 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      I have had very good results with the bands I've been purchasing off of eBay from 15581tracey. These appear to be a latex material and that provide a firm grip on the driveshafts. The best part about these belts is that they don't fit quite as tight as those factory Athearn belts that are still available under Horizon/Athearn Part#90101. This factor becomes an advantage over the factory belts when your particular unit might be a little on the weak end of the scale. One drawback is that they tend to "walk" towards ends of the shafts a little further than the factory belt would, so rubbing can occur on some units. I still stick with the factory Athearn #90101 belts on my Hustlers and my strongest running units though. As far as longevity goes though, I've had some of the eBay belts on some units for almost two years now, and they are still elastic and soft with no signs of wear.

      Van.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:
      >
      > Most Walmarts have these clear hair bands by Goody.
      >
      > http://www.walmart.com/ip/Goody-Clear-3-Different-Sizes-Hair-Rubber-Bands-1-ct/12018417
      >
      > The medium or large sizes are perfect for Hi-f units. I've had them in some RDC's for about 4 years and they show no sign of hardening or deterioration. (They also make the best traction tires for large steam that I've found. The small ones work for diesels, but tend to be uneven.)
      >
      > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Athearn/DSCF1688-1024x625.jpg
      >
      > Together with that big 24 volt motor, they are actually reliable low speed runners.
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Has anyone found a modern replacement for the hi-f rubber bands? I mean a more advanced elastic that might last a long time.
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20998 From: vancampbell64 Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: Athearn Early 60's Era Gear Drive
      Hello Nelson,
      Yes, it appears that Irv was constantly looking for a better design for his "gear drive" offerings! He really kept his design team earning their paychecks, to say the least! I'm of the persuasion that I build almost everything in identical pairs. You can imagine my frustration when I'll buy a "basket case" to use for parts, only to find that it's a different variant on the theme! LOL! It borders on the ridiculous. I like to put power chassis' in all of the units in my vintage train sets and putting together exact two, sometimes three, exactly matching F-7 or GP-9 power chassis' has become quite challenging, but fun at the same time!
      I'm with you on the attributes of the Globe/Athearn Dual Drives Nelson! The only other "Vintage Athearns" I have that are in that league are the Blue Box SD-9s and, of course, the Super-Geared F-7s. Even the Single Drive Globe units are great pullers! I have an 1957 Athearn Set #4167 that has one in the F-7 and it pulls that train about the over-n-under with absolutely no problems! You'll get people whining about power consumption with these relics, but with MRC ControlMaster 20s as cabs on my pike, I couldn't care less about that! LOL!
      As far as those units you mentioned that have the retaining clip in the worm housing, from what I have seen, these variations were found on only the initial production of the SD and "SW-1500" models round about 66-67, afterwards going to that awful design of the two piece snap-on worm gear housing that carried on through most all of the DD-40 and PA production. Doubtless, in my opinion, Irv's single worst design.
      You mentioned HOSeeker. I will pick Larry's brain at times. I try to contribute to his site by sending pics and info on all my vintage stuff and oddities. He posts nearly all I send in the galleries built into his site. He's a great guy and has been alot of help to me in my endeavors! If you've got anything he can use for his site, please, send it to him!

      Van.


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:
      >
      > Van,
      >
      > I obtained a big box of early Athearn drives a few years ago and was amazed at the number of iterations they went through. It included a Globe F7 Dual Drive with the large motor, which was probably the smoothest drive Athearn ever made, but most are early 60's (I assume) knock-offs of the Globe design with noisy, coarse gearing. There are diagrams on HOSeeker for these that just refer to them as the 60's gear drive.
      >
      > As you mentioned some of the spur gears are straight toothed, while others are herringbone. Some have brass bushings for the top spur gear, others don't. Most have the old Hi-F motor, which is surprisingly weak for powering a gear train. One GP9 chassis has the oval Jet motor, and runs strong albeit loudly. A sheet on HOSeeker dates this to 1964.
      >
      > Then there are a number of versions of the standard arrangement we know today with the worm at the top of the gear tower, but with heavy wire U clips that hold the truck halves together.
      >
      > It would be nice to be able to put them all on a time timeline, but I haven't seen diagrams for some of these versions anywhere. Obviously it took Irv a while to come up with the blue box design we're all familiar with.
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "vancampbell64" <tehachapikid@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Glenn,
      > > Yes, those early gear drive are freaking monsters indeed, and you are correct in that they are the first gear drives offered. I have found that this drive is most often referred to as a "Globe/Athearn Drive". The only reference I've found for it is in the 1957 Athearn Catalog listing both single and dual drive versions. I'm fortunate enough to have a pair of the dual drive units and an example of the single drive unit also. I've seen GP-9 versions of these drives and even have a "dummy" chassis for one but I've not seen an actual listing in an Athearn catalog for such.
      > >
      > > But, back to my original questions, the gear drives I'm referring to are the "tower type" drives that were introduced in the 1960 Athearn Catalog as Ready-To-run items in the train sets of the period and in the 1961-1962 catalog listed as individual items. These had the "ball and slide" type universals, the delrin gear housings and the two piece Zamac truck sideframes.
      > >
      > > I must admit that everything I know, or claim to know about these old Athearn pieces, is through corresponding with other collectors or through my own research and hands-on experience, as these models are older than I am! LOL! So, please, correct me if I'm wrong or mis-informed on any of these issues! Thanks, Van.
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 20999 From: dave sandulli Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
      Hi Brad,
      Thank you for your info. Do you know if Atlas ever produced this correct car in HO scale?

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote:
      >
      > Black and white photos do exist for these cars and probably the painting
      > diagrams do also, either at the car builder or at the lessee. (Gerber in this
      > case) Such is the case for the Narragansett beer car. Red Ball made the
      > car sides and others made RTR cars in HO, however they only made one side
      > of the car! Both sides were different, as per the painting and lettering
      > diagrams. Atlas is the only model maker that got the car correct, as they
      > worked off the drawings and not the photograph.
      >
      > Brad Smith
      > Franklin,WI
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21000 From: rcjge Date: 3/26/2013
      Subject: Re: trouble registering at tycoforums...
      The forum's owner is Todd and he has been absent for a while.

      -Gareth

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
      >
      > I guess I've never been a member of tycoforums. Tonight I tried to
      > register several times. Their, "anti-spam," question is: what is
      > ocyt spelled backwards? So I answer tyco. It bounces; says I'm in error.
      >
      > For those of you who might be on that forum, am I missing something
      > with their trick question?
      >
      > And I see no way to contact their forum administrator.
      >
      > Dennis
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21001 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/27/2013
      Subject: Fw: William Morrison
      Not sure if Bill was a member here, but I do believe a few of us knew of him!
       
      Sean


      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      From: Bill Morrison <crusader118@...>
      To: Bill Morrison <crusader118@...>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:28 AM
      Subject: William Morrison

      Dear Friends of Bill,
       
      I am writing to tell you he passed away yesterday – March 26th. We are grateful to all of you for your love and support via email to him over the years.
       
      Sincerely,
      Bill’s Family


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21002 From: dave sandulli Date: 3/27/2013
      Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
      Hi Brad,
      I have been wondering if I misinterpreted your answer.

      Did you mean that each car had different sides, one side blue and the other side pink?

      Dave

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote:
      >
      > Black and white photos do exist for these cars and probably the painting
      > diagrams do also, either at the car builder or at the lessee. (Gerber in this
      > case) Such is the case for the Narragansett beer car. Red Ball made the
      > car sides and others made RTR cars in HO, however they only made one side
      > of the car! Both sides were different, as per the painting and lettering
      > diagrams. Atlas is the only model maker that got the car correct, as they
      > worked off the drawings and not the photograph.
      >
      > Brad Smith
      > Franklin,WI
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21003 From: Brad Smith Date: 3/27/2013
      Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
      No, I was referring to the Narragansett Ale/beer car that is different on each side.  On the Gerber car I would assume the blue is correct, as the blue cars have been made for many years. 

      Brad Smith
       


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21004 From: sottguy Date: 3/27/2013
      Subject: Re: Current RMC
      Mike,

      Thanks for the good word, and I certainly agree with you that the article barely scratches the surface of '50s/'60s modeling. It clearly can't cover much more than it did in the space allotted, nor was it the goal. It could fill a book.

      RMC editor Bill Schaumburg invited me to do the article on rather short notice to help celebrate their 80th anniversary issue. He wanted me to demonstrate that those early models could be quite effective, especially in the context of contemporary model scenery. I had one or two photos at hand but had to quickly put together a collection for the article. In retrospect, I can think of some models it would have been nice to include. Next time, I guess.

      Nevertheless, it was fun to illustrate our special niche in the hobby. I hope you enjoyed it.

      Al Askerberg

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike <mikesloane@...> wrote:
      >
      > Yes, it is a nice article with a few good pictures, but it doesn't begin
      > to really cover the subject. There is so much material to cover that it
      > would take many more pages to do justice to the wonderful world of '50s
      > and 60's model railroading (and the great people who make it all happen).
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21005 From: Glenn Date: 3/27/2013
      Subject: Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
       
       
      From: Brad Smith
      Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Gerber Billboard reefers
       


      No, I was referring to the Narragansett Ale/beer car that is different on each side.  On the Gerber car I would assume the blue is correct, as the blue cars have been made for many years.
       
      Brad Smith
       

       

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21006 From: Jim Waterman Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Re: Fw: William Morrison
      Wow, sorry to hear that. He was a deep dive expert in the Penn Line, knew most of the principle owners and operators of the firm, and had quite an extensive collection.
       
      He had planned to write a book on the company – I wonder if he finished some or all of it.
       
      I still have a bunch of photos that PL had made for their catalogs and advertizements, and some that just show the operation. Bill was interested in them but we never managed to get together.
       
      Jim Heckard knows him well.
       
      Jim Waterman
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21007 From: Richard Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Re: Current RMC
      Al,
      I just finished reading your article and I enjoyed it very much and thought you did a fine job on it. It brought back lots of memories of those by gone days. I for one have reverted back to those early days, in some respects. Since I retired in 2003, the price of everything in our hobby has sky rocketed to the point that I can no longer afford to buy most of it, so I now content myself with the older stuff and I find it is very rewarding to bring back to life an item that might be over fifty years old. Last year I found my first 8-Ball loco and am having fun getting it back into good running condition. Thanks for writing such a nice piece.
      Richard in Vermont

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "sottguy" <aiberg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Mike,
      >
      > Thanks for the good word, and I certainly agree with you that the article barely scratches the surface of '50s/'60s modeling. It clearly can't cover much more than it did in the space allotted, nor was it the goal. It could fill a book.
      >
      > RMC editor Bill Schaumburg invited me to do the article on rather short notice to help celebrate their 80th anniversary issue. He wanted me to demonstrate that those early models could be quite effective, especially in the context of contemporary model scenery. I had one or two photos at hand but had to quickly put together a collection for the article. In retrospect, I can think of some models it would have been nice to include. Next time, I guess.
      >
      > Nevertheless, it was fun to illustrate our special niche in the hobby. I hope you enjoyed it.
      >
      > Al Askerberg
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike <mikesloane@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Yes, it is a nice article with a few good pictures, but it doesn't begin
      > > to really cover the subject. There is so much material to cover that it
      > > would take many more pages to do justice to the wonderful world of '50s
      > > and 60's model railroading (and the great people who make it all happen).
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21008 From: cwrailman Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Mantua Pacific 4-6-2 Kit for sale

      I have a Mantua Pacific 4-6-2 kit for sale and I thought I would give anyone on this board an opportunity to purchase it before I list it on Ebay.  Except for one part, the kit seems complete along with a box in good condition and the instructions and other documentation.  It appears that it was never operated as the drivers are bright and shiny.  The top enclosure for the gear box is missing but the worm and coupling are in the box.  I am asking $45 plus shipping for this kit. Click on the link below to see an image of this package.

      http://cwrailman.com/Sale%20items/Mantua%20Pacific%20Kit%202A.jpg

      If you are interested contact me at CWRailman@...

      If nobody is interested in purchasing it, I will be listing this package on Ebay sometime next week.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21009 From: cwrailman Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific 4-6-2 Kit has been SOLD

      I have a committed buyer and a second interested party for this kit so I am considering it SOLD.  Thanks to all who contacted me asking for additional info.  Hopefully the new owner will post photo's when it becomes operational.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I have a Mantua Pacific 4-6-2 kit for sale and I thought I would give
      > anyone on this board an opportunity to purchase it before I list it on
      > Ebay. Except for one part, the kit seems complete along with a box in
      > good condition and the instructions and other documentation. It appears
      > that it was never operated as the drivers are bright and shiny. The top
      > enclosure for the gear box is missing but the worm and coupling are in
      > the box. I am asking $45 plus shipping for this kit. Click on the link
      > below to see an image of this package.
      >
      > http://cwrailman.com/Sale%20items/Mantua%20Pacific%20Kit%202A.jpg
      > <http://cwrailman.com/Sale%20items/Mantua%20Pacific%20Kit%202A.jpg>
      >
      > If you are interested contact me at CWRailman@...
      > <mailto:CWRailman@...
      >
      > If nobody is interested in purchasing it, I will be listing this package
      > on Ebay sometime next week.
      >
      > Denny
      >
      > Janitor in Training
      >
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      >
      > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21010 From: g3mag63 Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: G5 steam chest
      I was wondering if anyone buy chance would have a steam chest for a Bowser G5 that they do not need. I have contacted Bowser and they no longer have this part available. I would buy or trade if I have something you might need. Thanks.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21011 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21012 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21013 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 3/28/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Thanks for the comments, Steve.  The brass boiler is why I bought the locomotive.  On the first pass, I walked away from the unit because of what I could see of the frame.  Then began thinking about the boiler and went back. I had already gotten the Econ Pacific from the same fellow. I don't throw anything away either.  Like my E&H Model Hobbies catalog I got myself when it came out in the very late 1950's.  Ha.  Still often refer to it........with pleasant memories.

      But I'd sure like to have some version of the Varney, "Super," series.  I'll just keep watching.

      Dennis in E WA state



      At 08:12 PM 3/28/2013, you wrote:


      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis



      Group: vintageHO Message: 21014 From: Sean Naylor Date: 3/29/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Hello Denis,

      Take a gander here at my Varney junk yard:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4466165118/in/set-72157623116890157

      Since taking this picture, I have added ~10-15 locomotives, including two more Yellowstone shells and two complete chassis.

      I have a few lil Joes too:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/7631537852/in/set-72157623116890157

      Ive added ~12 more since taking that pic too...

      This is my Economy Pacific, like yours:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4312580413/in/set-72157623116890157/

      It is one of my most prized pieces.

      Some day I'll get around to restoring some! I think from the lot, I have only sold one Pacific. Cant seem to bring myself to sell any.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:34 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Thanks for the comments, Steve.  The brass boiler is why I bought the locomotive.  On the first pass, I walked away from the unit because of what I could see of the frame.  Then began thinking about the boiler and went back. I had already gotten the Econ Pacific from the same fellow. I don't throw anything away either.  Like my E&H Model Hobbies catalog I got myself when it came out in the very late 1950's.  Ha.  Still often refer to it........with pleasant memories.

      But I'd sure like to have some version of the Varney, "Super," series.  I'll just keep watching.

      Dennis in E WA state



      At 08:12 PM 3/28/2013, you wrote:


      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis





      Group: vintageHO Message: 21015 From: sottguy Date: 3/29/2013
      Subject: Re: Current RMC
      Richard,

      Glad you enjoyed the article. I would love to see a photo of your 8 Ball Mogul when restored. I hope you will post it to the group. The 8 Ball is just about my favorite of all these great relics.

      Al

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Al,
      > I just finished reading your article and I enjoyed it very much and thought you did a fine job on it. It brought back lots of memories of those by gone days. I for one have reverted back to those early days, in some respects. Since I retired in 2003, the price of everything in our hobby has sky rocketed to the point that I can no longer afford to buy most of it, so I now content myself with the older stuff and I find it is very rewarding to bring back to life an item that might be over fifty years old. Last year I found my first 8-Ball loco and am having fun getting it back into good running condition. Thanks for writing such a nice piece.
      > Richard in Vermont
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21016 From: topstokes Date: 3/29/2013
      Subject: Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 help
      If anyone has a non operable engine, shell condition not important, I would be interested in purchasing it for parts. Contact me at my email address. Thanks.
      Top Stokes
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21017 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 3/29/2013
      Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 help
      And I need a 2-6-6-6 front porch and pilot in either plastic or brass.
      Thanks for any consideration.

      Grace and Peace...
      Don Staton in VA
      chpln1@...
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      On 3/29/2013 4:34 PM, topstokes wrote:
       

      If anyone has a non operable engine, shell condition not important, I would be interested in purchasing it for parts. Contact me at my email address. Thanks.
      Top Stokes


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21018 From: prandn Date: 3/30/2013
      Subject: Does Anyone Know........
      What the string and lever thing is on a Devore Dynameter car kit?

      Thanks for any help offered.

      Loren Martell
      Beaverton, OR 97006
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21019 From: stephenlengal Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: Does Anyone Know........
      The string and lever is for the mechanism that attaches the coupler to the dial set inside the baggage door. When it is all set up properly, the tension on the coupler turns the dial to show how much pressure is being exerted on the coupler.

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21020 From: sswcharlie Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      Hi

      On the bottom of this page:

      http://hoseeker.net/athearn.htm

      there is a advertisement for Turbo Express, a propeller driven loco. The name on box is Atlas.

      Q. were these ever produced and where can I find more info on them ?


      Thanks


      Charles Harris
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21021 From: sswcharlie Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: HOSeeker - Baby Turbine HO - Peterson? Athearn ?
      Hi

      With the Baby Turbine kit that was on the market a few decades ago, was it marketed under the 'Peterson' name (using Athearn chassis etc) or was it officially a Athearn product ?

      And where can I find more info on it ?

      What price would you expect to pay for one ?

      Thanks

      Charles Harris
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21022 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      I have one of them.

      They were made by Atlas [Models ?], about 1960 as a morphing of slot-cars and trains.

      They use the old no-bearings Athearn Hustler chassis and will wear out the side frames over time. I was able to get the newer with-bearings frame and matching axles for mine and it still runs today.

      I operated mine many times on a local club layout.

      The first few trips created dust-storms as it went through the tunnels and fresh zip-texturing that had been applied with no bonding agent went flying within a few inches of the ROW.

      It's major failing is that the roots of the three bladed prop is a bit weak and I have one blade that is threatening to snap off. Someday I'll fix that and get her back into service. Today we have glues that work on nylon type plastics which is what the blades are. Not so a while ago.

      I painted mine in black with the SP orange warning stripe decals of their early geeps and a few 'emergency hatch here' decals from some model airplane decal set. I want to revisit that project and add the new high-beam LED lights and some warning flashers, maybe DCC her for use on the giant NAPM layout........ There is enough room in the body to put in a turbine sound DCC unit........

      Maybe.....

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA



      On Mar 31, 2013, at 5:04 PM, railroads@... wrote:

      > Hi
      >
      > On the bottom of this page:
      >
      > http://hoseeker.net/athearn.htm
      >
      > there is a advertisement for Turbo Express, a propeller driven loco. The name on box is Atlas.
      >
      > Q. were these ever produced and where can I find more info on them ?
      >
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      >
      > Charles Harris
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21023 From: corlissbs Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      I have one of them, too, so Mike there are at least 2 in Milwaukee.  The blades broke off of mine and I replaced the prop with a model boat prop, as it would move a lot of air.  It works, however the prop is bronze and i would rather it be plastic.  We searched at Greenfield News and Hobbies for a plane prop that would work, but found none.  The prop is the weak point of the "model".  I would like to know if there were a box of props in the corner at Atlas.
       
      I wanted one to go with my Hustler collection.
       
      Brad
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21024 From: Mike Bauers Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      Perhaps I should make a mold from mine and cast them in re-inforced Alumilite?

      Another thought I had and didn't finalize was to buy plastic RC plane props and cut them back to the diameter needed. I was thinking of stacking and off-setting two three blade props to have a stacked six bladed prop. It would look like the props used on some later turbo-prop planes. By cutting back larger blades, you have the more massive part of the props in use.

      From what I see in Greenfield News the stacked prop would work fine, I just never get over there with the measurement of how big the original TurboRacer prop is.

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA



      On Mar 31, 2013, at 7:12 PM, corlissbs@... wrote:

      >
      >
      > I have one of them, too, so Mike there are at least 2 in Milwaukee. The blades broke off of mine and I replaced the prop with a model boat prop, as it would move a lot of air. It works, however the prop is bronze and i would rather it be plastic. We searched at Greenfield News and Hobbies for a plane prop that would work, but found none. The prop is the weak point of the "model". I would like to know if there were a box of props in the corner at Atlas.
      >
      > I wanted one to go with my Hustler collection.
      >
      > Brad
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21025 From: Richard Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: Current RMC
      Al,
      Nice to hear from you. In addition to the 8 all, I have a Belle which is missing the plate under the cab that holds the tender pin. I have added a headlight to the 8-Ball with an LED. After all these years they still run well but they both need restoration. Your comments are most welcome. Photos are under "Mantua 8 Ball and Belle".
      Richard in Vermont

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "sottguy" <aiberg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Richard,
      >
      > Glad you enjoyed the article. I would love to see a photo of your 8 Ball Mogul when restored. I hope you will post it to the group. The 8 Ball is just about my favorite of all these great relics.
      >
      > Al
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Al,
      > > I just finished reading your article and I enjoyed it very much and thought you did a fine job on it. It brought back lots of memories of those by gone days. I for one have reverted back to those early days, in some respects. Since I retired in 2003, the price of everything in our hobby has sky rocketed to the point that I can no longer afford to buy most of it, so I now content myself with the older stuff and I find it is very rewarding to bring back to life an item that might be over fifty years old. Last year I found my first 8-Ball loco and am having fun getting it back into good running condition. Thanks for writing such a nice piece.
      > > Richard in Vermont
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21026 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21027 From: tom bell Date: 3/31/2013
      Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      There is a 32mm diameter propeller that might fit http://www.microflight.com/Online-Catalog/Propellers/32mm-Prop

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21028 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      That one has a shaft hole that is way too small and the material around it won't allow a larger shaft through it.

      I proposed a larger prop that is cut down partly because the hub will be larger and better able to mod-d to fit the TurboRacer motor shaft.

      However, I've seen the Japanese modelers use a prop very close to what you link along with the matching motor like you see on that page to make a lighter air-powered track speeder. The two make for a great smaller speedster.

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA



      On Apr 1, 2013, at 12:19 AM, tom bell <tebeeb@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > There is a 32mm diameter propeller that might fit http://www.microflight.com/Online-Catalog/Propellers/32mm-Prop
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21029 From: corlissbs Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: HOSeeker - Athearn Page - Turbo Express
      The OEM prop is a 4-blade prop.  The props that I have found have too large of a hub which would make the blades too short.  I also question whether Alumalite would stand up to the forces in a propeller?
       
      Brad Smith
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21030 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Current RMC
      Hi Richard,
      These are really cool basic (vintage) models.  I really like the headlight on the 8 Ball.  I have also always had a tender spot for the Belle, but never owned one.  I think they make very good basic models that lend themselves to some decent superdetailing.  The air pumps are the first things I would replace, since they are the most obvious.  But, then, you could (if you wanted to, of course) add piping, generators, pop valves, all kinds of cool stuff from Cal Scale or PSC.  This depends on whether you want to keep them as factory shipped or superdetailed into nice locos rivaling brass.  Nowadays there are some pretty direct replacement upgrades for the motors.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: rh@...
      Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:17:20 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Current RMC

       
      Al,
      Nice to hear from you. In addition to the 8 all, I have a Belle which is missing the plate under the cab that holds the tender pin. I have added a headlight to the 8-Ball with an LED. After all these years they still run well but they both need restoration. Your comments are most welcome. Photos are under "Mantua 8 Ball and Belle".
      Richard in Vermont

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "sottguy" <aiberg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Richard,
      >
      > Glad you enjoyed the article. I would love to see a photo of your 8 Ball Mogul when restored. I hope you will post it to the group. The 8 Ball is just about my favorite of all these great relics.
      >
      > Al
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Al,
      > > I just finished reading your article and I enjoyed it very much and thought you did a fine job on it. It brought back lots of memories of those by gone days. I for one have reverted back to those early days, in some respects. Since I retired in 2003, the price of everything in our hobby has sky rocketed to the point that I can no longer afford to buy most of it, so I now content myself with the older stuff and I find it is very rewarding to bring back to life an item that might be over fifty years old. Last year I found my first 8-Ball loco and am having fun getting it back into good running condition. Thanks for writing such a nice piece.
      > > Richard in Vermont
      >


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21031 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis



      Group: vintageHO Message: 21032 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6289687482/in/set-72157623384254115

      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis





      Group: vintageHO Message: 21033 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Attachments :
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6289687482/in/set-72157623384254115

      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis







        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21034 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1
      Dennis,
      I believe an Mantua Mikado chassis can be made to fit just as easily. One more thing to note, my locomotive has the early Pacific chassis with the enclosed drive worm gear and the large Pittman motor. The newer chassis may not require as much cutting of the backhead to fit, but I am not sure. I seem to think it will still require some. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1 Attachment]

       
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6289687482/in/set-72157623384254115

      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis









      Group: vintageHO Message: 21035 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Hey Sean, no attachment on either message.
      Don Staton in VA
      ---------------------------------------------------------
      On 4/1/2013 5:49 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
       
      Dennis,
      I believe an Mantua Mikado chassis can be made to fit just as easily. One more thing to note, my locomotive has the early Pacific chassis with the enclosed drive worm gear and the large Pittman motor. The newer chassis may not require as much cutting of the backhead to fit, but I am not sure. I seem to think it will still require some. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1 Attachment]

       
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:


      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis










      Group: vintageHO Message: 21036 From: Richard Dipping Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Attachments :
      Hello Dennis-
       
      I looked through my Varney parts and found I have a new, pre-war Mikado frame casting.  A magnifing glass shows NO cracking or warping.  If you're interested, contact me off-line.
       
      Richard Dipping.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 10:00 pm
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the 
      Photos section.
      
      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot.  I figured as 
      much.  So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running 
      gear.  No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix.  Not 
      appetizing to do.  Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.
      
      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.
      
      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on.  Would love 
      to have one.  I see the seller is listing the tender separately.  Gee.
      
      Dennis
      
      
      
      ------------------------------------
      
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        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21037 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1
      Thanks, Richard.  Direct email on it's way.

      Dennis


      At 03:42 PM 4/1/2013, you wrote:
      [ Attachment(s) from Richard Dipping included below]

      Hello Dennis-
       
      I looked through my Varney parts and found I have a new, pre-war Mikado frame casting.  A magnifing glass shows NO cracking or warping.  If you're interested, contact me off-line.
       
      Richard Dipping.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21038 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Sean and all,

      My thinking is that the Mikado motor mounts further up towards the front of the locomotive, so may or may not work under a Varney shell. Of course if one has the early version with the rubber hose drive shaft, then yeah, I think it shouldn't be a problem.

      My Varney Pacific boiler's backhead and floor is well behind the motor on the chassis I tried. Again, the chassis I found was the later version that was used throughout most Tyco production, with the motor and worm gear that connect directly to the spur gear on the center drive axle.

      The rubber hose system puts the motor further back, so that frame may require cutting into the backhead. The earlier hose drive would be more "plausible original" as the parts were all available around the same time and Varney did offer the kit in separate sale stages for those on a budget, but the later frame and motor would be less work to get going.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Mon, 4/1/13, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Monday, April 1, 2013, 4:49 PM

       

      Dennis,
      I believe an Mantua Mikado chassis can be made to fit just as easily. One more thing to note, my locomotive has the early Pacific chassis with the enclosed drive worm gear and the large Pittman motor. The newer chassis may not require as much cutting of the backhead to fit, but I am not sure. I seem to think it will still require some. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1 Attachment]

       
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6289687482/in/set-72157623384254115

      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis









      Group: vintageHO Message: 21039 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      Hi Don,

      I saw the attachment, so I am not sure how you missed it. Even clicked on it and it took me to the VintageHO page with the photo. Anyway, this is the photo:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/8610546353/in/photostream
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 6:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hey Sean, no attachment on either message.
      Don Staton in VA
      ---------------------------------------------------------
      On 4/1/2013 5:49 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
       
      Dennis,
      I believe an Mantua Mikado chassis can be made to fit just as easily. One more thing to note, my locomotive has the early Pacific chassis with the enclosed drive worm gear and the large Pittman motor. The newer chassis may not require as much cutting of the backhead to fit, but I am not sure. I seem to think it will still require some. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1 Attachment]

       
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6289687482/in/set-72157623384254115

      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis












      Group: vintageHO Message: 21040 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

      On 4/1/2013 9:24 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
       
      Hi Don,

      I saw the attachment, so I am not sure how you missed it. Even clicked on it and it took me to the VintageHO page with the photo. Anyway, this is the photo:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/8610546353/in/photostream

       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 6:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hey Sean, no attachment on either message.
      Don Staton in VA
      ---------------------------------------------------------
      On 4/1/2013 5:49 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
       
      Dennis,
      I believe an Mantua Mikado chassis can be made to fit just as easily. One more thing to note, my locomotive has the early Pacific chassis with the enclosed drive worm gear and the large Pittman motor. The newer chassis may not require as much cutting of the backhead to fit, but I am not sure. I seem to think it will still require some. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1 Attachment]

       
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:


      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis













      Group: vintageHO Message: 21041 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      I saw the link when you first sent it and looked at the pictures.  They were great. 
      I was looking for and expecting an individual attachment rather than a link.  I had actually sent your message back to myself so that I could activate the link in the message rather than copy and paste.

      My bad.  Sorry for the mix-up. 

      Thank you for all of your effort.

      Don Staton in VA
      ---------------------------------------------------------------


      On 4/2/2013 12:20 AM, Donald R. Staton wrote:
       


      On 4/1/2013 9:24 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
       
      Hi Don,

      I saw the attachment, so I am not sure how you missed it. Even clicked on it and it took me to the VintageHO page with the photo. Anyway, this is the photo:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/8610546353/in/photostream

       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 6:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hey Sean, no attachment on either message.
      Don Staton in VA
      ---------------------------------------------------------
      On 4/1/2013 5:49 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
       
      Dennis,
      I believe an Mantua Mikado chassis can be made to fit just as easily. One more thing to note, my locomotive has the early Pacific chassis with the enclosed drive worm gear and the large Pittman motor. The newer chassis may not require as much cutting of the backhead to fit, but I am not sure. I seem to think it will still require some. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well.... [1 Attachment]

       
      see attached photo of the underside of my Mantua/Varney Pacific:
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 4:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       
      Hello Dennis... 

      A Varney shell will fit onto a Mantua chassis with some minor alterations. I believe the cab floor & backwall will need to be removed to make room. I have one in my collection as can be seen here:


      I had emailed a photo of the underside to someone before, but sorry, I cant find it now. I re-took two with my cell phone here at work (it is on display next to my desk). I emailed it to myself as my phone wouldn't let me post it to flickr for some reason. I'll post the photos as soon as they come.
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....

       


      Steve, that's pretty interesting because I'm pretty sure I have a spare Mantua Pacific frame/running gear.  Not sure which version though.  It might put my, "twisted," Varney Mike back into operation.  Well, the boiler anyway.........

      I'll take a look.  Thanks for the insight and tip.

      Dennis




      At 09:57 PM 3/31/2013, you wrote:


      Just an update:

      I found a spare Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific frame, nothing but the frame, drive wheels, and motor. Later Mantua/Tyco issue with direct worm gear to center drive axle. The Varney Pacific shell (Should be same as Mikado shell) will fit over the motor, but the Mantua frame is perhaps 1/4" longer and would require some fitting to the back end. Nothing major, a standard Dremel tool should be able to make the modifications to the shape. Plus the drawbar would have to have a new screw mount about 1/4" closer to the front of the engine.

      If you aren't concerned with original parts, this might pass for "plausible" as it is a modification that could possibly have been made when the models were new.

      Thanks
      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:

      From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

       

      If it were me, I would hang onto the boiler. After all, someday you'll find a frame for it specifically, or find one that with some minor work, could be usable.

      Been there many times myself. I tend to not throw anything out for this reason. In fact, one of my current projects is to build new boilers to put atop spare steam frames I have. Got some frames that had rotted boilers (Some GHC/Aristocraft 4-4-2s notably), and a few spare frames besides.

      I have the economy Pacific myself, and it is going to be disassembled soon for motor servicing, and to replace a wire leading to the tender. When I have it apart, I'll check the boiler against some other frames I have. Would be interesting to see what else it could fit with little effort. I can post my findings if any. Of course, this assumes you don't care much about original parts.

      I am wondering about some of these IHC frames I've had sitting around, and Mantua may be a possibility too...

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 3/28/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

      From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013, 10:01 PM

       

      Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      Photos section.

      Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.

      However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.

      I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.

      Dennis














      Group: vintageHO Message: 21042 From: johnhutnick Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Atlas 12" track
      Does anyone have any Atlas 12" radius brass track that they would sell? Thanks - John Hutnick
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21043 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/1/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      On 4/1/2013 8:55 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      > Does anyone have any Atlas 12" radius brass track that they would sell? Thanks - John Hutnick
      >
      >
      >
      >
      I don't know that Atlas ever made 12" radius. The smallest I've ever
      seen is 15".

      OTOH, I believe some of the European companies made 12". I want to say
      you could get it from Fleischmann.

      Don

      --
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21044 From: ablecynic Date: 4/2/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      Don,

      According to the Atlas catalog from 1964 (the early 60s), they made Snap-Trak in 12-, 15-, 18-, and 22-inch radii. While I don't know how popular it was, there was at least one railroad featured in Model Railroader that had a loop with the 12-inch radius track. There was also a winter-theme demo layout that was either in RMC or MR that used it. I think the builder of the first layout mentioned was Bruce Bowden, who was also a pioneer in HOn2 (NOT HOn30) but in 7mm gauge.

      I had a box of the 12-inch radii track for years and foolishly sold it back when eBay was new.

      Matt Coleman



      > I don't know that Atlas ever made 12" radius. The smallest I've ever
      > seen is 15".
      >
      > OTOH, I believe some of the European companies made 12". I want to say
      > you could get it from Fleischmann.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --
      > Don Dellmann
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21045 From: johnhutnick Date: 4/2/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      I can confirm that Atlas made 12" radius track for a while, since I had some. If you consult your older Atlas ads in MR or RMC, you can find it listed for a year or two. Fleischmann and Roco have made 10" radius. The 12" track is not particularly valuable, although somewhat rare. It is more or less impossible to search for 12" on Ebay - everything comes up. Most sellers of brass track will not know anyway. Regards, John Hutnick

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 4/1/2013 8:55 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      > > Does anyone have any Atlas 12" radius brass track that they would sell? Thanks - John Hutnick
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > I don't know that Atlas ever made 12" radius. The smallest I've ever
      > seen is 15".
      >
      > OTOH, I believe some of the European companies made 12". I want to say
      > you could get it from Fleischmann.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --
      > Don Dellmann
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21046 From: leetrains Date: 4/2/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      While I don't have any12" brass track I do have a bulk box of15" n/s track I am getting ready to list online. If interested let me know.
      Lee in Yuma

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 4/1/2013 8:55 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      > > Does anyone have any Atlas 12" radius brass track that they would sell? Thanks - John Hutnick
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > I don't know that Atlas ever made 12" radius. The smallest I've ever
      > seen is 15".
      >
      > OTOH, I believe some of the European companies made 12". I want to say
      > you could get it from Fleischmann.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --
      > Don Dellmann
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21047 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/2/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      Likewise there John,

      I am about to list some ~21 pounds of 18" brass track and switches. Sorry, NO 12".
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: leetrains <leetrains@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 3:18 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Atlas 12" track

       
      While I don't have any12" brass track I do have a bulk box of15" n/s track I am getting ready to list online. If interested let me know.
      Lee in Yuma

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 4/1/2013 8:55 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      > > Does anyone have any Atlas 12" radius brass track that they would sell? Thanks - John Hutnick
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > I don't know that Atlas ever made 12" radius. The smallest I've ever
      > seen is 15".
      >
      > OTOH, I believe some of the European companies made 12". I want to say
      > you could get it from Fleischmann.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --
      > Don Dellmann
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >



        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21048 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 4/2/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      Dear John,
      As late as 2007 I was bale to buy 12" R Atlas track at "Affair
      With Trains" in Phoenix. It might be worth a try to contact them.
      Jake Bechtel
      Gadsden, AL
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21049 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/2/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      On 4/2/2013 7:34 AM, ablecynic wrote:
      > Don,
      >
      > According to the Atlas catalog from 1964 (the early 60s), they made Snap-Trak in 12-, 15-, 18-, and 22-inch radii. While I don't know how popular it was, there was at least one railroad featured in Model Railroader that had a loop with the 12-inch radius track. There was also a winter-theme demo layout that was either in RMC or MR that used it. I think the builder of the first layout mentioned was Bruce Bowden, who was also a pioneer in HOn2 (NOT HOn30) but in 7mm gauge.
      >
      > I had a box of the 12-inch radii track for years and foolishly sold it back when eBay was new.
      >
      > Matt Coleman
      >

      i stand corrected, I'd never seen it.

      Don


      --
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21050 From: ablecynic Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      Don,

      My apologies if I seemed to be 'correcting' you -- you are too much a wizard in this group for me to correct and I do want to apologize if I came across that way.

      Back on the 12" radius track. From what I could tell, from reading old MR's and RMC's, 12-inch radius track was just too tight for almost all the cars and locos of the time to negotiate. I have wondered if it was a contract for a manufacturer, perhaps meant for the rumored Athearn Hustler set that was supposed to fit on a desktop to provide competition for TT. That was mentioned in one of the columns in RMC (I think) back in the early 60s but I never saw any more about it.

      Matt Coleman


      > >
      >
      > i stand corrected, I'd never seen it.
      >
      > Don
      >
      >
      > --
      > Don Dellmann
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21051 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      On 4/3/2013 8:04 AM, ablecynic wrote:
      > Don,
      >
      > My apologies if I seemed to be 'correcting' you -- you are too much a wizard in this group for me to correct and I do want to apologize if I came across that way.
      >
      > Back on the 12" radius track. From what I could tell, from reading old MR's and RMC's, 12-inch radius track was just too tight for almost all the cars and locos of the time to negotiate. I have wondered if it was a contract for a manufacturer, perhaps meant for the rumored Athearn Hustler set that was supposed to fit on a desktop to provide competition for TT. That was mentioned in one of the columns in RMC (I think) back in the early 60s but I never saw any more about it.
      >
      > Matt Coleman
      >
      >
      No apologies required. I'm an old phart and you know they say when you
      get old two things go first. Your memory, and I can't remember the
      second one.

      Anyway, I do run 12" radius and even tighter on my trolley line, but I
      did it all with flex track. I do know the tighter radius was very
      common on European layouts, that's why I had mentioned Fleischmann.

      Don

      --
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21052 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      If you are not tired of 12" radius thread.... In the April, 2008
      MR is a 4 page article on Tom Miller's HO gauge layout with 12" R
      track. In the 50's & 60's Mantua advertised their Pacific and Mike as
      having a 14" min radius capability. Many of the locos from the 50's &
      60's handled 12" R easily. Most 40' freight with talgo trucks could
      handle it. And almost all of the mining oriented freight handled it.
      All of the Mantua and Varney switchers and "old timers" worked it
      easily and even some of the 0-8-0 and 2-8-0 locos of the day would run
      on it.
      In the 40's and 50's we lived in a 12' wide house. 12" R track
      made it possible for me to have an HO gauge layout instead of Lionel
      track on the floor.
      Jake Bechtel
      Gadsden, AL
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21053 From: cwrailman Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives

      Talking about small locomotives that handle a 12 inch radius, if you want to see a 1060's vintage Gem brass switcher that easily and smoothly runs on 5" radius, check out the latest project to come out of the  California Western Loco and Car Rebuild Shops shown on the Projects page.  Click on the very last image to see this switcher in operation.  Some of you may find interest in some of the other projects reworking early brass models.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote:
      >
      > If you are not tired of 12" radius thread.... In the April, 2008
      > MR is a 4 page article on Tom Miller's HO gauge layout with 12" R
      > track. In the 50's & 60's Mantua advertised their Pacific and Mike as
      > having a 14" min radius capability. Many of the locos from the 50's &
      > 60's handled 12" R easily. Most 40' freight with talgo trucks could
      > handle it. And almost all of the mining oriented freight handled it.
      > All of the Mantua and Varney switchers and "old timers" worked it
      > easily and even some of the 0-8-0 and 2-8-0 locos of the day would run
      > on it.
      > In the 40's and 50's we lived in a 12' wide house. 12" R track
      > made it possible for me to have an HO gauge layout instead of Lionel
      > track on the floor.
      > Jake Bechtel
      > Gadsden, AL
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21054 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
      Talk about VINTAGE. Now that's a REAL OLDIE. Pre-clockwork! Twisted horsehair mechanism, I presume?

      :<))

      Regards,
      Walter


      On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:
       

      ...  if you want to see a 1060's vintage Gem brass switcher that easily and smoothly runs on 5" radius, ...

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21055 From: cwrailman Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives

      Walter,

      In the nuclear industry we call those "checker traps".  Usually put there to see if the checker is really reading the document or reviewing the drawing.  Congrats you were awake.  

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:
      >
      > Talk about VINTAGE. Now that's a REAL OLDIE. Pre-clockwork! Twisted
      > horsehair mechanism, I presume?
      >
      > :<))
      >
      > Regards,
      > Walter
      >
      >
      > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM, cwrailman cwrailman@... wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > ... if you want to see a 1060's vintage Gem brass switcher that easily
      > > and smoothly runs on 5" radius, ...
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21056 From: John Hutnick Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      Regarding 15" radius track, I have been using Peco Setrack.  It comes in radii of 14 5/8", 17 1/4, 19 7/8 and 22 1/2.  These increments of 2 5/8" match with the track centers of Peco turnouts, and allow enough clearance for almost anything.  For some reason, Atlas never developed a similar system.
       
      Further on the subject of Atlas code 100, I have been able to buy some older Atlas nickel silver "brown tie" code 100, once actually made in the US.  Atlas has always had black tie code 100 nickel, and currently brown ties in 83, but not 100.  I prefer the code 100 so as to run any flanges.  Peco switches handle the most varied wheels.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21057 From: William Higgins Date: 4/3/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      everybody comes up with the question as to whether or not atlas makes, or made 12" track. just to settle everyone's curiosity, the answer is yes. as a matter of fact, i am using about seven pieces on my layout. i have to use locos such as the general, but i'm not worried about that as i don't want large wheel displacement anyhow.  cwazybill
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21058 From: Askerberg Date: 4/4/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      Ah, the timing of this thread. I had been wanting to build a super
      compact HO layout with continuous running (a loop) to demonstrate
      that one could have such a layout in avery small space and still have
      operational. fun. When I was a kid, I built an HO layout on a 2' x
      5' pallet that I found. It had a loop with 10" curves of Atlas
      brass/fiber flex track, one spur for an engine house, and a
      switchback rising to a mine. I operated it with a Mantua Yard Goat,
      ore cars, and an MEW Grasse River caboose. I still have that caboose
      but only a replacement Goat. The layout worked just fine and gave me
      plenty of fun.

      I am now building a new layout on a 33" x 65" platform that fits in
      my car. It is also a loop but with a passing siding for engine
      run-around and a small yard off the siding. It is being built as an
      operating scenic diorama viewed only from the front. The loop has
      13" radius curves. I find many smaller locomotives can operate well
      and most, but not all, 40' cars will negotiate the curves. I plan to
      run much of my vintage collection on it.

      So there you have it. Yet another way to enjoy our vintage HO hobby
      - build a vintage layout. Of course, in my case, it could be that my
      basement is already filled with an O scale 2-rail layout and an On30
      layout, and there is no room left for an HO layout.

      Al Askerberg
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21059 From: cwrailman Date: 4/4/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track

      Al,

      I have a similar sized project in the works.  Check out the plans for the Phoenix & Flagstaff (P&F) railroad available in PDF format on the Home page of my web site.  While the P&F can be operated as continuous running for shows etc, I have worked out an scenario that operates the railroad in a point to point manner running from Phoenix to Flagstaff and back.   Most radius are 15" but there is one 14".  The railroad itself will be built out of light weight materials for easy moving.

      I have been testing different locomotives to see what will make it around a 14" radius and have been surprised to find so many that will operate smoothly down to that radius.   This idea originated as a way of teaching local students about the roll railroads played in harvesting the timber and servicing the mines along the Bradshaw mountain range here in Arizona.  The school system lost interest and now it's just something I want to do.   It is designed to fit into the back of a mini van.

      I remember running my Tyco engines around my first HO scale railroad in the garage.  I used flex track because it allowed tighter radius curves than normal track.  Being in the garage I could not operate during the cold Chicago winters and because it was all brass track I had to clean both the track as well as the brass loco wheels before it would run reliably.  By the time I got everything cleaned and running well, I had lost interest and went bike riding or playing baseball with the guys.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ah, the timing of this thread. I had been wanting to build a super
      > compact HO layout with continuous running (a loop) to demonstrate
      > that one could have such a layout in avery small space and still have
      > operational. fun. When I was a kid, I built an HO layout on a 2' x
      > 5' pallet that I found. It had a loop with 10" curves of Atlas
      > brass/fiber flex track, one spur for an engine house, and a
      > switchback rising to a mine. I operated it with a Mantua Yard Goat,
      > ore cars, and an MEW Grasse River caboose. I still have that caboose
      > but only a replacement Goat. The layout worked just fine and gave me
      > plenty of fun.
      >
      > I am now building a new layout on a 33" x 65" platform that fits in
      > my car. It is also a loop but with a passing siding for engine
      > run-around and a small yard off the siding. It is being built as an
      > operating scenic diorama viewed only from the front. The loop has
      > 13" radius curves. I find many smaller locomotives can operate well
      > and most, but not all, 40' cars will negotiate the curves. I plan to
      > run much of my vintage collection on it.
      >
      > So there you have it. Yet another way to enjoy our vintage HO hobby
      > - build a vintage layout. Of course, in my case, it could be that my
      > basement is already filled with an O scale 2-rail layout and an On30
      > layout, and there is no room left for an HO layout.
      >
      > Al Askerberg
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21060 From: louis niederlander Date: 4/4/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track

       I am truly enjoying this discussion of 12"r track.  I don't remember it and i don't have any, but i do remember that TruScale roadbed was available as small as 14"r because i bought a circle of it for my Mantua Mikado (which claimed 14"r operation). 
       
      Fortunately I was working at Spark's Hobby Shop [Cleveland] so I was flush with money at 75c/hr. The mikado kit was 12 bucks at the time.

      Regards,
       
      Louis N

      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: cwrailman@...
      Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 14:24:56 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Atlas 12" track



      Al,

      I have a similar sized project in the works.  Check out the plans for the Phoenix & Flagstaff (P&F) railroad available in PDF format on the Home page of my web site.  While the P&F can be operated as continuous running for shows etc, I have worked out an scenario that operates the railroad in a point to point manner running from Phoenix to Flagstaff and back.   Most radius are 15" but there is one 14".  The railroad itself will be built out of light weight materials for easy moving.

      I have been testing different locomotives to see what will make it around a 14" radius and have been surprised to find so many that will operate smoothly down to that radius.   This idea originated as a way of teaching local students about the roll railroads played in harvesting the timber and servicing the mines along the Bradshaw mountain range here in Arizona.  The school system lost interest and now it's just something I want to do.   It is designed to fit into the back of a mini van.

      I remember running my Tyco engines around my first HO scale railroad in the garage.  I used flex track because it allowed tighter radius curves than normal track.  Being in the garage I could not operate during the cold Chicago winters and because it was all brass track I had to clean both the track as well as the brass loco wheels before it would run reliably.  By the time I got everything cleaned and running well, I had lost interest and went bike riding or playing baseball with the guys.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ah, the timing of this thread. I had been wanting to build a super
      > compact HO layout with continuous running (a loop) to demonstrate
      > that one could have such a layout in avery small space and still have
      > operational. fun. When I was a kid, I built an HO layout on a 2' x
      > 5' pallet that I found. It had a loop with 10" curves of Atlas
      > brass/fiber flex track, one spur for an engine house, and a
      > switchback rising to a mine. I operated it with a Mantua Yard Goat,
      > ore cars, and an MEW Grasse River caboose. I still have that caboose
      > but only a replacement Goat. The layout worked just fine and gave me
      > plenty of fun.
      >
      > I am now building a new layout on a 33" x 65" platform that fits in
      > my car. It is also a loop but with a passing siding for engine
      > run-around and a small yard off the siding. It is being built as an
      > operating scenic diorama viewed only from the front. The loop has
      > 13" radius curves. I find many smaller locomotives can operate well
      > and most, but not all, 40' cars will negotiate the curves. I plan to
      > run much of my vintage collection on it.
      >
      > So there you have it. Yet another way to enjoy our vintage HO hobby
      > - build a vintage layout. Of course, in my case, it could be that my
      > basement is already filled with an O scale 2-rail layout and an On30
      > layout, and there is no room left for an HO layout.
      >
      > Al Askerberg
      >


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21061 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 4/4/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
      Hi Denny,

      Now there is a model I haven't seen since I returned to civilian
      life in '62 ! I saw it in the old - now gone - Lloyds Hobby Shop on
      north Charles St. in Baltimore.

      jake Bechtel
      Gadsden, AL
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21062 From: cwrailman Date: 4/4/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives

      Jacob,

      Seeing one of those little Gem diesels in a hobby shop in 1962 sounds about right.  Those little guys were imported by Gem in 1960.  These days you see them on Ebay from time to time in various conditions selling for prices from $70 to $125.  As I noted on my Projects page the motor design was not conducive to cleaning the commutator or tuning the motor.  Even when lubed the armature had more resistance to turning than other motors of similar design.   Remotoring and regearing brings the model up to todays standards of operation.  

      By the way, I have been having a conversation on another board and it seems that Marx sold a similar diesel in the early 1960's.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Denny,
      >
      > Now there is a model I haven't seen since I returned to civilian
      > life in '62 ! I saw it in the old - now gone - Lloyds Hobby Shop on
      > north Charles St. in Baltimore.
      >
      > jake Bechtel
      > Gadsden, AL
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21063 From: nico Date: 4/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the comments that arrived in my Varney Rescue album in the
      > Photos section.
      >
      > Yeah, my 2-8-2 frame is surely warped from Zamac rot. I figured as
      > much. So I end up with a cast brass boiler and some running
      > gear. No usable frame unless I break it and semi-fab a fix. Not
      > appetizing to do. Chance of finding a frame is pretty slim.
      >
      > However, I think the Econ Pacific could run again.
      >
      > I see a Super Varney on ebay I'm thinking of bidding on. Would love
      > to have one. I see the seller is listing the tender separately. Gee.
      >
      > Dennis
      >

      I know these locomotives! They were being sold by a guy named Bob J. Bergen in the Seattle show circut! Dennis, how did you come across these locomotives? I eye'd these locomotives, but didn't get them because of cost. It's good to see they got a good home.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21064 From: corlissbs Date: 4/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
      I, too have one of those brass Gem switchers, sitting on a shelf with my Athearn Hustler collection of 26 different numbers, etc.  Never knew what to do with it, but now I might get started on a project.  I remember when they were imported in 1960.  For 5 bucks, the Hustler ran better, thanks to Irv.
       
      Marx produced a Hustler knock off.  I have one in New Haven colors.  I doubt it runs well.  Not worth repowering, as it doesn't have as nice of looks as a Hustler and the paint jobs from Marx sucked.
       
      Brad Smith
      Franklin,WI
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21065 From: Joe Date: 4/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
      Yes, Marx had one of a similar "design". It was ingeniously
      designed to use one of the power trucks used on their
      F-7 diesel. Not much of a runner. The VERY visible
      leaf springs from the F-7 were one of it's "features".
      It was also noisy when running, as were the F-7's.
      I have one I picked up years ago on Ebay. I guess it
      was supposed to look like the Whitcomb switcher and was
      supposed to compete with the likes of the Athearn Hustler.
      A tall order indeed. As I recall it was several dollars
      more than the Hustler and therefor didn't enjoy much
      success. It also couldn't run nearly as fast as the Hustler.

      Joe O'Loughlin

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Jacob,
      >
      > Seeing one of those little Gem diesels in a hobby shop in 1962 sounds
      > about right. Those little guys were imported by Gem in 1960. These
      > days you see them on Ebay from time to time in various conditions
      > selling for prices from $70 to $125. As I noted on my Projects page the
      > motor design was not conducive to cleaning the commutator or tuning the
      > motor. Even when lubed the armature had more resistance to turning than
      > other motors of similar design. Remotoring and regearing brings the
      > model up to todays standards of operation.
      >
      > By the way, I have been having a conversation on another board and it
      > seems that Marx sold a similar diesel in the early 1960's.
      >
      > Denny
      >
      > Janitor in Training
      >
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      >
      > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      >
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Denny,
      > >
      > > Now there is a model I haven't seen since I returned to civilian
      > > life in '62 ! I saw it in the old - now gone - Lloyds Hobby Shop on
      > > north Charles St. in Baltimore.
      > >
      > > jake Bechtel
      > > Gadsden, AL
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21066 From: Wally Weart Date: 4/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track
      I have some 9" radius brass rail track that Atlas made for a Western scene my kids had. There was a loop of track around molded plastic platform. When the kids outgrew this, everything but the track went out and I kept the track for a trolley line as it was so well form it was perfectly in gauge.

      Wally

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21067 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 4/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Tnx for comments on my Varney Rescue photos posted, well....
      They were at the Lewiston, Idaho, show last month. I'll drop you a
      note off line and chat.

      Dennis





      > >
      >
      >I know these locomotives! They were being sold by a guy named Bob J.
      >Bergen in the Seattle show circut! Dennis, how did you come across
      >these locomotives? I eye'd these locomotives, but didn't get them
      >because of cost. It's good to see they got a good home.
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21068 From: cwrailman Date: 4/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives

      Hey Brad,

      How about posting some photo's of your Gen switcher.  I would like to see that puppy in operation before and after you do the rework.

      You Wisconsin guys always put on the best model railroad shows.  Many of your regional meets were better than some of the National meets and that NMRA 50th event set the standards for all that followed.  That is one of the few things I miss about living out West.

      Many moons ago I raced at that Union Grove track that I believe is not too far from you. 

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote:
      >
      > I, too have one of those brass Gem switchers, sitting on a shelf with my
      > Athearn Hustler collection of 26 different numbers, etc. Never knew what to
      > do with it, but now I might get started on a project. I remember when
      > they were imported in 1960. For 5 bucks, the Hustler ran better, thanks to
      > Irv.
      >
      > Marx produced a Hustler knock off. I have one in New Haven colors. I
      > doubt it runs well. Not worth repowering, as it doesn't have as nice of looks
      > as a Hustler and the paint jobs from Marx sucked.
      >
      > Brad Smith
      > Franklin,WI
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21069 From: corlissbs Date: 4/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives
      I would love to post some pics, but don't know how to do it.  Since I do not have a web site, I need some direction.  Right now, the Gem diesel is still in one piece.
       
      Thanks,
      Brad Smith
      Franklin,WI
       
      In a message dated 4/5/2013 3:37:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cwrailman@... writes:
       

      Hey Brad,

      How about posting some photo's of your Gen switcher.  I would like to see that puppy in operation before and after you do the rework.

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21070 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives

      Hi Brad,

      If you get on this group’s site, then click on the “photo” on the left side.  Create an album like “Brad’s photos”, then click on the Add.  This will bring up a browser that will show you directory.  You will then need to click on the path to your photos and click on the ones you want to add to the album.  Give it a try.  There is even a message box that will notify the group that you loaded some.

       

      Take care,

       

      Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

      https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

       


      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of corlissbs@...
      Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 5:09 PM
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Atlas 12" track and small locomotives

       

       

      I would love to post some pics, but don't know how to do it.  Since I do not have a web site, I need some direction.  Right now, the Gem diesel is still in one piece.

       

      Thanks,

      Brad Smith

      Franklin, WI

       

      In a message dated 4/5/2013 3:37:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cwrailman@... writes:

       

      Hey Brad,

      How about posting some photo's of your Gen switcher.  I would like to see that puppy in operation before and after you do the rework.

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21071 From: Sean Naylor Date: 4/10/2013
      Subject: Early 1937 Pre-Boiler Production Mantua 4-6-2 / 4-6-4 Chassis
      Hi All,

      I wanted to share this very rare piece I recently purchased. After comparing it to my other pre-war Mantua pieces, I am convinced it is a pre-boiler production chassis. 

      These were some of the very first production run locomotive chassis produced by Mantua. According to a catalog article I read, they were not producing boiler shells yet at this time. They did not produce their first boiler shell until sometime after 1938 and before 1939.

       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21072 From: Jim Heckard Date: 4/13/2013
      Subject: Still Hanging in and watching
      Attachments :
      I admit I don't join in as much as usual but I am still here.
      Since my good friend Bill Morrison ( Mr Penn Line ) who never joined the
      yahoo groups has now passed on and I have never joined eBay was lost
      with Bill's passing. He would bid for me but in stepped Sean Naylor to
      bid for me. With his help the picture will show what we won. While the
      Roundhouse 0-6-0 might be on the top of other people's list and I had
      been always bypassing it for other items I decided to bid on this one.
      Glad to get a box with it and hope it is the earliest one with the 4
      piece cab. Even if not it still fills in a spot in my vintage
      collection. The repairs if needed and repaint might have to wait because
      of my medical problems but this gave me something to do. I hope to get
      other pieces now too.

      Jim H
        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21073 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 4/13/2013
      Subject: Re: Still Hanging in and watching [1 Attachment]
      Jim, I'm glad to see that you are still here and actively involved in working on your collection.  Sean, thanks for assisting Jim.
      Don Staton in VA.
      ================================================================================
      On 4/13/2013 4:30 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
       



      I admit I don't join in as much as usual but I am still here.
      Since my good friend Bill Morrison ( Mr Penn Line ) who never joined the
      yahoo groups has now passed on and I have never joined eBay was lost
      with Bill's passing. He would bid for me but in stepped Sean Naylor to
      bid for me. With his help the picture will show what we won. While the
      Roundhouse 0-6-0 might be on the top of other people's list and I had
      been always bypassing it for other items I decided to bid on this one.
      Glad to get a box with it and hope it is the earliest one with the 4
      piece cab. Even if not it still fills in a spot in my vintage
      collection. The repairs if needed and repaint might have to wait because
      of my medical problems but this gave me something to do. I hope to get
      other pieces now too.

      Jim H


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21074 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 4/14/2013
      Subject: Re: Still Hanging in and watching [1 Attachment]

      Yes, very good to hear from you on this site.  Looking forward to hearing how it works once you do get it.

       

      Take care,

       

      Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

      https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

       


      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
      Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 4:30 PM
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [vintageHO] Still Hanging in and watching [1 Attachment]

       

       



      I admit I don't join in as much as usual but I am still here.
      Since my good friend Bill Morrison ( Mr Penn Line ) who never joined the
      yahoo groups has now passed on and I have never joined eBay was lost
      with Bill's passing. He would bid for me but in stepped Sean Naylor to
      bid for me. With his help the picture will show what we won. While the
      Roundhouse 0-6-0 might be on the top of other people's list and I had
      been always bypassing it for other items I decided to bid on this one.
      Glad to get a box with it and hope it is the earliest one with the 4
      piece cab. Even if not it still fills in a spot in my vintage
      collection. The repairs if needed and repaint might have to wait because
      of my medical problems but this gave me something to do. I hope to get
      other pieces now too.

      Jim H

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21075 From: joeloh3 Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: New to Group
      Hi All,

      I am new to this group but not new to Model Railroading. I have been building HO model cars since 1952. My first kit was an AC Models caboose which I still have in great shape. I also started scratching building in 1952 and about 25%$ of my cars and locomotives are scratch build. I probably have between 200 and 400 models cars and locomotive kits and a few ready to run cars and locomotives as well as many scratch build equipment from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. I will be willing to share any information I have on these early HO kits that I have.

      Joel Holmes
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21076 From: luvprr2003 Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: Re: New to Group
      Hey, Joel,
      What do you consider "scratch built?"
       
      In a message dated 4/15/2013 12:29:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hoyard@... writes:
      Hi All,

      I am new to this group but not new to Model Railroading.  I have been building HO model cars since 1952.  My first kit was an AC Models caboose which I still have in great shape.  I also started scratching building in 1952 and about 25%$ of my cars and locomotives are scratch build.  I probably have between 200 and 400 models cars and locomotive kits and a few ready to run cars and locomotives as well as many scratch build equipment from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's.  I will be willing to share any information I have on these early HO kits that I have.

      Joel Holmes



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      Group: vintageHO Message: 21077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: Re: New to Group
      On 4/15/2013 9:55 AM, joeloh3 wrote:
      > Hi All,
      >
      > I am new to this group but not new to Model Railroading. I have been building HO model cars since 1952. My first kit was an AC Models caboose which I still have in great shape. I also started scratching building in 1952 and about 25%$ of my cars and locomotives are scratch build. I probably have between 200 and 400 models cars and locomotive kits and a few ready to run cars and locomotives as well as many scratch build equipment from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. I will be willing to share any information I have on these early HO kits that I have.
      >
      > Joel Holmes
      >
      >
      Welcome aboard. I hope you enjoy the ride.

      Don

      --
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21078 From: bitlerisvj Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: Mantua Shark motor
      Hi folks, 
      I was lucky enough that this weekend I finally won one of these on ebay.
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-MANTUA-CAST-METAL-SHARKNOSE-B-UNIT-PWRD-NOT-RUNNING-/230959398656?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c640bf00&nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 
      According to the text it does not run and the metal has a bit of a chalky dusting on it.  I am not sure what that means.  I have 3 A-Units of these models, and one of them also had a chalky dusting on it, because it was stored in an unheated crawl space.  I suspect the normal elements made it chalky, but it cleaned up just fine.  It does not exhibit any zinc rot at all, so am hoping (expecting) the B-unit that is coming to me will also be ok.  If any of you are familiar withe the "chalky" coating, please by all means let me know what you think.
      As to the motor, these things are built pretty good and I am hoping that the problem is either a broken wire or dirty wheels.  Generally unless the loco was abused, and this one does not appear to be, since it has all of its stirrup steps and doesn't look like it took any hits, the motor itself should not be burned out.  If the loco was run for very long periods, I suppose the brushes could be worn.
      I will provide a response and update to this once I have this in my hot little hands. :o)  If all goes well, I may be putting a two motro A-Unit out on ebay. Heh heh.
      Regards, Vic Bitleris
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21079 From: shawmut_fan Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      I suspect that the chalky stuff is some kind of oxide.

      John B. Allyn






      From: bitlerisvj@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 11:42:39 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Shark motor

       

      Hi folks, 
      I was lucky enough that this weekend I finally won one of these on ebay.
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-MANTUA-CAST-METAL-SHARKNOSE-B-UNIT-PWRD-NOT-RUNNING-/230959398656?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c640bf00&nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 
      According to the text it does not run and the metal has a bit of a chalky dusting on it.  I am not sure what that means.  I have 3 A-Units of these models, and one of them also had a chalky dusting on it, because it was stored in an unheated crawl space.  I suspect the normal elements made it chalky, but it cleaned up just fine.  It does not exhibit any zinc rot at all, so am hoping (expecting) the B-unit that is coming to me will also be ok.  If any of you are familiar withe the "chalky" coating, please by all means let me know what you think.
      As to the motor, these things are built pretty good and I am hoping that the problem is either a broken wire or dirty wheels.  Generally unless the loco was abused, and this one does not appear to be, since it has all of its stirrup steps and doesn't look like it took any hits, the motor itself should not be burned out.  If the loco was run for very long periods, I suppose the brushes could be worn.
      I will provide a response and update to this once I have this in my hot little hands. :o)  If all goes well, I may be putting a two motro A-Unit out on ebay. Heh heh.
      Regards, Vic Bitleris

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21080 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Hi John,
      Yes, you are most correct and according to a Die Cast web site I found, is not the same as zinc rot. (Thank Goodness!!)  It is due to exposure, like being outside in a moist environment.  Most of our toys don't get played with outside....usually. ;o)
      According to the website, you can soak the zamac in a 10% solution of vinegar/water and a hit of lemon to take the vinegar smell asway.  You can soak the zamac overnight if needed.  I will try this when I receive the B-Unit.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: john.allyn@...
      Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:58:07 +0000
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Shark motor

       

      I suspect that the chalky stuff is some kind of oxide.

      John B. Allyn






      From: bitlerisvj@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 11:42:39 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Shark motor

       

      Hi folks, 
      I was lucky enough that this weekend I finally won one of these on ebay.
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-MANTUA-CAST-METAL-SHARKNOSE-B-UNIT-PWRD-NOT-RUNNING-/230959398656?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c640bf00&nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 
      According to the text it does not run and the metal has a bit of a chalky dusting on it.  I am not sure what that means.  I have 3 A-Units of these models, and one of them also had a chalky dusting on it, because it was stored in an unheated crawl space.  I suspect the normal elements made it chalky, but it cleaned up just fine.  It does not exhibit any zinc rot at all, so am hoping (expecting) the B-unit that is coming to me will also be ok.  If any of you are familiar withe the "chalky" coating, please by all means let me know what you think.
      As to the motor, these things are built pretty good and I am hoping that the problem is either a broken wire or dirty wheels.  Generally unless the loco was abused, and this one does not appear to be, since it has all of its stirrup steps and doesn't look like it took any hits, the motor itself should not be burned out.  If the loco was run for very long periods, I suppose the brushes could be worn.
      I will provide a response and update to this once I have this in my hot little hands. :o)  If all goes well, I may be putting a two motro A-Unit out on ebay. Heh heh.
      Regards, Vic Bitleris


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21081 From: shawmut_fan Date: 4/15/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      The vinegar also works to etch the surface for painting.  I have an ancient MEW Grasse River caboose that I bought with my paper route money long ago and far away -- etched it in vinegar and brush painted it with 410M paint.  Paint has never chipped!

      John B. Allyn



      From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...>
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 12:09:17 PM
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua Shark motor

       

      Hi John,
      Yes, you are most correct and according to a Die Cast web site I found, is not the same as zinc rot. (Thank Goodness!!)  It is due to exposure, like being outside in a moist environment.  Most of our toys don't get played with outside....usually. ;o)
      According to the website, you can soak the zamac in a 10% solution of vinegar/water and a hit of lemon to take the vinegar smell asway.  You can soak the zamac overnight if needed.  I will try this when I receive the B-Unit.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: john.allyn@...
      Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:58:07 +0000
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Shark motor

       

      I suspect that the chalky stuff is some kind of oxide.

      John B. Allyn






      From: bitlerisvj@...
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 11:42:39 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Shark motor

       

      Hi folks, 
      I was lucky enough that this weekend I finally won one of these on ebay.
      http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-MANTUA-CAST-METAL-SHARKNOSE-B-UNIT-PWRD-NOT-RUNNING-/230959398656?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c640bf00&nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 
      According to the text it does not run and the metal has a bit of a chalky dusting on it.  I am not sure what that means.  I have 3 A-Units of these models, and one of them also had a chalky dusting on it, because it was stored in an unheated crawl space.  I suspect the normal elements made it chalky, but it cleaned up just fine.  It does not exhibit any zinc rot at all, so am hoping (expecting) the B-unit that is coming to me will also be ok.  If any of you are familiar withe the "chalky" coating, please by all means let me know what you think.
      As to the motor, these things are built pretty good and I am hoping that the problem is either a broken wire or dirty wheels.  Generally unless the loco was abused, and this one does not appear to be, since it has all of its stirrup steps and doesn't look like it took any hits, the motor itself should not be burned out.  If the loco was run for very long periods, I suppose the brushes could be worn.
      I will provide a response and update to this once I have this in my hot little hands. :o)  If all goes well, I may be putting a two motro A-Unit out on ebay. Heh heh.
      Regards, Vic Bitleris


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21082 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: New to Group
      Welcome to this group from dreary Central NY state, Joel.
       
      Great folks here!
       
      Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21083 From: cwrailman Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Chicago Great Western 4-6-0 by Continental

      How many of you folks have the brass Chicago Great Western 4-6-0 that was sold as a kit manufactured by Continental in 1958?  It was originally sold through a company called High Quality Model Distributors out of Los Angeles .  There was a Test Track feature on this model in the May 1958 issue of RMC.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21084 From: Joel Holmes Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: New to Group
      To me, scratch built is as follows: I take a plan, car or building, get
      the various materials needed, stripwood, milled siding, metal or plastic
      parts, etc., and construct the model using these plans. I have built many
      prototype cars where there is no model produced in either kit or RTR.
      Sometimes, I build a car from a photo only as no plans exist. This is not
      the same as car bashing. I really do not like that term.

      On the railroads, they rebuild cars, no car bash. For example, the
      railroads will take a 40' box car and rebuild it into a 50' box car.

      > Hey, Joel,
      > What do you consider "scratch built?"
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 4/15/2013 12:29:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      > hoyard@... writes:
      >
      > Hi All,
      >
      > I am new to this group but not new to Model Railroading. I have been
      > building HO model cars since 1952. My first kit was an AC Models caboose
      > which
      > I still have in great shape. I also started scratching building in 1952
      > and about 25%$ of my cars and locomotives are scratch build. I probably
      > have between 200 and 400 models cars and locomotive kits and a few ready
      > to
      > run cars and locomotives as well as many scratch build equipment from the
      > 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. I will be willing to share any information I
      > have
      > on these early HO kits that I have.
      >
      > Joel Holmes
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21085 From: gbwdude Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Gents,

      My friend just donated a first generation Varney Casey Jones to my railroad. It's almost complete minus the worm gear and motor, which leads me to this question. Does anyone here have just the worm gear or know where I could acquire one from? From what I understand the Bowser worm is different. I don't care about the motor as much because I'm planning to drop DCC into it and have a can motor set aside.

      Thanks,
      Tyler
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21086 From: Joel Holmes Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: New to Group
      Hi Fred,

      I guess it is dreary since the LV stopped running through NY state.

      Joel

      > Welcome to this group from dreary Central NY state, Joel.
      >  
      > Great folks here!
      >  
      > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21087 From: cwrailman Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Tyler,
      You say you are doing DCC (which is a bad word here, I'll use another bad word at the end) and will be installing a can motor. If that is the case you may consider installing a NWSL gear box or some similar. The alignment of the original Varney components was dependent on the motor being firmly attached to the frame. Even so there were always alignment issues caused by production tolerances which produced less than accurate relationships between the worm and worm gear and caused mechanism noise.
      I don't have a Varney frame here one here but I suspect using a file, over a reasonable period of time you could enlarge the openings in the frame as well as the bottom plate to accommodate a fully functional gear box. That would probably provide you with the smooth operation sufficient to make use of performance enhancements available with a properly configured decoder. I am currently doing such an installation in a vintage Chicago Great Western 4-6-0.
      If you are committed to using original Varney type gears you may consider contacting North West Short Line to see if they have replacement gears.
      http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc;jsessionid=41BD4DEBBB03700DE9AC1EDAE128B8E1.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=14
      Denny
      Janitor in Training
      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      WEB site: CWRailman.com
      Facebook: CWRailman


      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gbwdude" <gbwdude@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gents,
      >
      > My friend just donated a first generation Varney Casey Jones to my railroad. It's almost complete minus the worm gear and motor, which leads me to this question. Does anyone here have just the worm gear or know where I could acquire one from? From what I understand the Bowser worm is different. I don't care about the motor as much because I'm planning to drop DCC into it and have a can motor set aside.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Tyler
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21088 From: Joel Holmes Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Hi Tyler,

      Keep the locomotive as it was. Try Yardbird Trains for the necessary
      parts. E-mail Dan Bush at dan@.... He has a web site at
      www.yardbirdtrains.com.

      Joel Holmes

      > Gents,
      >
      > My friend just donated a first generation Varney Casey Jones to my
      > railroad. It's almost complete minus the worm gear and motor, which leads
      > me to this question. Does anyone here have just the worm gear or know
      > where I could acquire one from? From what I understand the Bowser worm is
      > different. I don't care about the motor as much because I'm planning to
      > drop DCC into it and have a can motor set aside.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Tyler
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21089 From: rcjge Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      If someone else is interested in an AB combo of these (Mantua Sharks)in good shape I have a pair. They came from Tony who some of you may know as an excellent Crusader Restorer, talk to Sean I think he was pleased with his restoration.

      Anyway, email me if you are interested.... I'm in Canada and will be Stateside in early May and would ship them then to save the buyer money....

      Best,
      Gareth
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21090 From: nico Date: 4/16/2013
      Subject: Re: Early 1937 Pre-Boiler Production Mantua 4-6-2 / 4-6-4 Chassis
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi All,
      >
      > I wanted to share this very rare piece I recently purchased. After comparing it to my other pre-war Mantua pieces, I am convinced it is a pre-boiler production chassis. 
      >
      > These were some of the very first production run locomotive chassis produced by Mantua. According to a catalog article I read, they were not producing boiler shells yet at this time. They did not produce their first boiler shell until sometime after 1938 and before 1939.
      >
      >
      >  
      > Sean
      >
      >
      > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
      >

      If I had that peice, I'd make a proper locomotive out of it. Maybe the B&O's Lord Baltimore! I am impressed Sean, I am impressed, and wishing I could have a chance to make a locomotive like the B&O's Lord Baltimore. You have a good find Sean (would you be willing to part with it?).
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21091 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Hi Tyler,
      Ignore Denny about the DCC stuff, I think he is a curmudgeon about that. :o)  Wonder what the other bad word was?
      But, everything else Denny says is very correct.  He really knows how to make locomotives run beautifully.  Denny is actually a very good resource to us.  
      You should always make your loco run as best as possible on DC first, then install a decoder.  Personally ALL of my running vintage locomotives have a DCC decoder in them.  The only decoder I ever blew out was the one in the Bachmann Spectrum 44 tonner, (not even vintage) due to really bad motor issues.  I got a new chassis with a new motor from Bachmann and it runs just fine with a new decoder.  I have several older locomotives with decoders in them, including my Varney NW-2 with a Hobbytown of Boston chassis.  I did have to add wipers to get all-wheel pickup on it.  Of course it stalled on DC as well, just worse on DCC.

      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: cwrailman@...
      Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 20:50:25 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear

       
      Tyler,
      You say you are doing DCC (which is a bad word here, I'll use another bad word at the end) and will be installing a can motor. If that is the case you may consider installing a NWSL gear box or some similar. The alignment of the original Varney components was dependent on the motor being firmly attached to the frame. Even so there were always alignment issues caused by production tolerances which produced less than accurate relationships between the worm and worm gear and caused mechanism noise.
      I don't have a Varney frame here one here but I suspect using a file, over a reasonable period of time you could enlarge the openings in the frame as well as the bottom plate to accommodate a fully functional gear box. That would probably provide you with the smooth operation sufficient to make use of performance enhancements available with a properly configured decoder. I am currently doing such an installation in a vintage Chicago Great Western 4-6-0.
      If you are committed to using original Varney type gears you may consider contacting North West Short Line to see if they have replacement gears.
      http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc;jsessionid=41BD4DEBBB03700DE9AC1EDAE128B8E1.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=14
      Denny
      Janitor in Training
      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      WEB site: CWRailman.com
      Facebook: CWRailman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gbwdude" <gbwdude@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gents,
      >
      > My friend just donated a first generation Varney Casey Jones to my railroad. It's almost complete minus the worm gear and motor, which leads me to this question. Does anyone here have just the worm gear or know where I could acquire one from? From what I understand the Bowser worm is different. I don't care about the motor as much because I'm planning to drop DCC into it and have a can motor set aside.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Tyler
      >


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21092 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

      From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 9:09 AM

       

      Hi Tyler,
      Ignore Denny about the DCC stuff, I think he is a curmudgeon about that. :o)  Wonder what the other bad word was?
      But, everything else Denny says is very correct.  He really knows how to make locomotives run beautifully.  Denny is actually a very good resource to us.  
      You should always make your loco run as best as possible on DC first, then install a decoder.  Personally ALL of my running vintage locomotives have a DCC decoder in them.  The only decoder I ever blew out was the one in the Bachmann Spectrum 44 tonner, (not even vintage) due to really bad motor issues.  I got a new chassis with a new motor from Bachmann and it runs just fine with a new decoder.  I have several older locomotives with decoders in them, including my Varney NW-2 with a Hobbytown of Boston chassis.  I did have to add wipers to get all-wheel pickup on it.  Of course it stalled on DC as well, just worse on DCC.

      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: cwrailman@...
      Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 20:50:25 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear

       
      Tyler,
      You say you are doing DCC (which is a bad word here, I'll use another bad word at the end) and will be installing a can motor. If that is the case you may consider installing a NWSL gear box or some similar. The alignment of the original Varney components was dependent on the motor being firmly attached to the frame. Even so there were always alignment issues caused by production tolerances which produced less than accurate relationships between the worm and worm gear and caused mechanism noise.
      I don't have a Varney frame here one here but I suspect using a file, over a reasonable period of time you could enlarge the openings in the frame as well as the bottom plate to accommodate a fully functional gear box. That would probably provide you with the smooth operation sufficient to make use of performance enhancements available with a properly configured decoder. I am currently doing such an installation in a vintage Chicago Great Western 4-6-0.
      If you are committed to using original Varney type gears you may consider contacting North West Short Line to see if they have replacement gears.
      http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc;jsessionid=41BD4DEBBB03700DE9AC1EDAE128B8E1.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=14
      Denny
      Janitor in Training
      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      WEB site: CWRailman.com
      Facebook: CWRailman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gbwdude" <gbwdude@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gents,
      >
      > My friend just donated a first generation Varney Casey Jones to my railroad. It's almost complete minus the worm gear and motor, which leads me to this question. Does anyone here have just the worm gear or know where I could acquire one from? From what I understand the Bowser worm is different. I don't care about the motor as much because I'm planning to drop DCC into it and have a can motor set aside.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Tyler
      >


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21093 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Weird, Denny loves can motors and uses them all the time.  Did you see some of his re-motor videos?  He has some sweet locos with VERY good low speed characteristics that can only be achieved with can motors.  Denny will respond and clarify the "other" bad word.  ;o)
      Epoxy motor to frame?  UGH!
      Regards, 
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: computersystemrebuild@...
      Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:48:34 -0700
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear

       
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

      From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 9:09 AM

       


      Hi Tyler,
      Ignore Denny about the DCC stuff, I think he is a curmudgeon about that. :o)  Wonder what the other bad word was?
      But, everything else Denny says is very correct.  He really knows how to make locomotives run beautifully.  Denny is actually a very good resource to us.  
      You should always make your loco run as best as possible on DC first, then install a decoder.  Personally ALL of my running vintage locomotives have a DCC decoder in them.  The only decoder I ever blew out was the one in the Bachmann Spectrum 44 tonner, (not even vintage) due to really bad motor issues.  I got a new chassis with a new motor from Bachmann and it runs just fine with a new decoder.  I have several older locomotives with decoders in them, including my Varney NW-2 with a Hobbytown of Boston chassis.  I did have to add wipers to get all-wheel pickup on it.  Of course it stalled on DC as well, just worse on DCC.

      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: cwrailman@...
      Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 20:50:25 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear

       
      Tyler,
      You say you are doing DCC (which is a bad word here, I'll use another bad word at the end) and will be installing a can motor. If that is the case you may consider installing a NWSL gear box or some similar. The alignment of the original Varney components was dependent on the motor being firmly attached to the frame. Even so there were always alignment issues caused by production tolerances which produced less than accurate relationships between the worm and worm gear and caused mechanism noise.
      I don't have a Varney frame here one here but I suspect using a file, over a reasonable period of time you could enlarge the openings in the frame as well as the bottom plate to accommodate a fully functional gear box. That would probably provide you with the smooth operation sufficient to make use of performance enhancements available with a properly configured decoder. I am currently doing such an installation in a vintage Chicago Great Western 4-6-0.
      If you are committed to using original Varney type gears you may consider contacting North West Short Line to see if they have replacement gears.
      http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc;jsessionid=41BD4DEBBB03700DE9AC1EDAE128B8E1.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=14
      Denny
      Janitor in Training
      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      WEB site: CWRailman.com
      Facebook: CWRailman

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gbwdude" <gbwdude@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gents,
      >
      > My friend just donated a first generation Varney Casey Jones to my railroad. It's almost complete minus the worm gear and motor, which leads me to this question. Does anyone here have just the worm gear or know where I could acquire one from? From what I understand the Bowser worm is different. I don't care about the motor as much because I'm planning to drop DCC into it and have a can motor set aside.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Tyler
      >


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21094 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      On 4/17/2013 9:48 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      I'll issue a dispensation to use "can motor", I run a few.

      HOWEVER!  The next person who uses the word "DCC" is hereby ordered to wash their mouth out with peanut butter-)  (I also caught somebody using the word :Bachmann")
      :-)

      Don
      Listowner
      -- 
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21095 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      ROTFL :o)
      (I like peanut butter)  I love this group, it is absolutely great!
      Regards, Vic B.

      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: don.dellmann@...
      Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:26:14 -0500
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear

       

      On 4/17/2013 9:48 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      I'll issue a dispensation to use "can motor", I run a few.

      HOWEVER!  The next person who uses the word "DCC" is hereby ordered to wash their mouth out with peanut butter-)  (I also caught somebody using the word :Bachmann")
      :-)

      Don
      Listowner
      -- 
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21096 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      OK, Don, given that I sometimes eat a few spoonfuls of peanut butter as a quick and fun "pick me up" (My home, my rules), and I could use a pick me up right now anyway:

      DCC DCC DCC DCC DCC DCC
      Bachmann Bachmann

      There, should I just go eat the whole jar now?

      Besides, Bachmann Plasticville would technically fall under "Vintage" catagory, wouldn't it?

      Outside of that, is Botchman OK to use?

      In humor,
      -Steve

      --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

      From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 11:26 AM

       

      On 4/17/2013 9:48 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      I'll issue a dispensation to use "can motor", I run a few.

      HOWEVER!  The next person who uses the word "DCC" is hereby ordered to wash their mouth out with peanut butter-)  (I also caught somebody using the word :Bachmann")
      :-)

      Don
      Listowner
      -- 
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21097 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Yes, this group is great. Now to get a jar of peanut butter out of the cupboard!

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

      From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 11:43 AM

       

      ROTFL :o)
      (I like peanut butter)  I love this group, it is absolutely great!
      Regards, Vic B.

      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: don.dellmann@...
      Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:26:14 -0500
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear

       

      On 4/17/2013 9:48 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      I'll issue a dispensation to use "can motor", I run a few.

      HOWEVER!  The next person who uses the word "DCC" is hereby ordered to wash their mouth out with peanut butter-)  (I also caught somebody using the word :Bachmann")
      :-)

      Don
      Listowner
      -- 
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21098 From: cwrailman Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Revival of a CGW 4-6-0

      To see the latest project related to a vintage model check out our Revival of a Chicago Great Western 4-6-0.  This 1958 vintage kit built model was converted from a noisy coffee grinder to a nice smooth running model.

      I know there are some on this board who like to keep their Vintage models all vintage.  However there are also those who like to operate their vintage models.  The disparity between how those vintage models usually operate and today's offerings is vast and in many cases are the reason so many vintage models spend most of their life sitting on shelves.  What we do here in our California Western Loco and Car Rebuild shops is attempt to narrow that disparity by updating and improving a vintage models operational characteristics without drastically altering the model.  This gives new life to old models which are many times neglected or resigned to sitting on shelves.  In fact, with a few exceptions if someone wanted to return one of our reworks to complete vintage condition with original motor and gearing they could easily do so.  However I have never found anyone who, after observing one of our reworked vintage models in operation, wanted to do so.  However, in the past when we did such work for customers, we always offered to return the original parts to them.

      Check out the video of the remotored and regeared vintage Gem Industrial Switcher on my Projects page or my 02/23/2013 Blog with attached video of the Mantua General in operation.   These vintage models can now be operated with pride along side newer models on any railroad.  

      In my postings I often refer to my former relationship with the Scottsdale Model Railroad Club.  The reason I am no longer a member there is because in building their new railroad the club went 100% DCC.  Though I do conversions to DCC for operation on other railroads, I continue to use DC for my own railroad and equipment.

      Everyone seemed to miss it but the other bad word I used in my posting of the Varney Casey Jones gear issue was decoder?  

      Remember guys, this is all coming from a guy who drives a 1955 Chevy with rebuilt original 6 cylinder motor complete with generator and not just to car shows but to the grocery store, to church and when dad is in town we use it to go to baseball Spring Training games.  How's that for vintage?

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: http://www.cwrailman.com/

      Facebook: CWRailman 

       

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21099 From: Mike Bauers Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: A vintage Paul Moore
      This looks like fun......

      I just bought the rights to a partly assembled, early Bowser traction power truck-powered, Paul Moore Little Scoot 'Heavy-Electric' freight motor.

      Usually these were built to fit on an Athearn Hustler rubber band drive 0-B-0 diesel mechanism. This one was meant to be a true B-B powered freight motor.

      This one I'll assemble and add the new raised rivet decals to it. I've got some vintage Walthers trolley poles to add to her, so she will be able to run on a pole-only trolley layout. Which is typical of my home region.

      I'll have her in a week or so.

      Image attached......

      Now what colors to paint her into? What's on it looks like it's a better primer than a finish coat.

      Perhaps Cream City this time? Maybe with vintage era orange/black SP diesel 'tiger-stripes'?

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA
        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21100 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      On 4/17/2013 2:58 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
      OK, Don, given that I sometimes eat a few spoonfuls of peanut butter as a quick and fun "pick me up" (My home, my rules), and I could use a pick me up right now anyway:

      DCC DCC DCC DCC DCC DCC
      Bachmann Bachmann

      There, should I just go eat the whole jar now?

      Besides, Bachmann Plasticville would technically fall under "Vintage" catagory, wouldn't it?

      Outside of that, is Botchman OK to use?

      In humor,
      -Steve

      --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

      From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 11:26 AM

       

      On 4/17/2013 9:48 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:
      Vic,

      I think the other "bad words" were "can motor".

      I bought a Varney Casey Jones on eBay some years ago that did have a can motor inside. I didn't know it when I bought it, but left it in because it did run smooth.

      I'll see if I can get it apart and get pictures. The LCD is damaged on my camera, so I have to shoot pictures "blind" without the aid of a viewfinder or LCD. I believe epoxy plays at least a part in holding the motor to the frame.

      -Steve Neubaum

      I'll issue a dispensation to use "can motor", I run a few.

      HOWEVER!  The next person who uses the word "DCC" is hereby ordered to wash their mouth out with peanut butter-)  (I also caught somebody using the word :Bachmann")
      :-)

      Don
      Listowner
      -
      

      That's OK, we all have to have some peanut butter this week in memory of Annette anyway :-)

      And yes, Platsicville is definitely on topic.

      Don
      -- 
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21101 From: Howard C. Taylor Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      will a geared set from an old lady work in the casey jones? if so i have one . howard
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21102 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/17/2013
      Subject: Re: Revival of a CGW 4-6-0
      WOW, a stove bolt 6 with a generator!  Does it have a straight drive or a peanut butter drive (pun intended)?    I always did like the looks of the 1955 Chevys.
      I remember generator cars well.  I had to replace the brushes in the generator of my first car, a 1958 Ford Fairlane, before I could drive it to work when I was 16.  We had an Auto-Electric shop 2 blocks away and I was able to purchase the brushes there for 50 cents.  Ah yes, those were the days.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: cwrailman@...
      Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 22:26:39 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Revival of a CGW 4-6-0

       

      To see the latest project related to a vintage model check out our Revival of a Chicago Great Western 4-6-0.  This 1958 vintage kit built model was converted from a noisy coffee grinder to a nice smooth running model.

      I know there are some on this board who like to keep their Vintage models all vintage.  However there are also those who like to operate their vintage models.  The disparity between how those vintage models usually operate and today's offerings is vast and in many cases are the reason so many vintage models spend most of their life sitting on shelves.  What we do here in our California Western Loco and Car Rebuild shops is attempt to narrow that disparity by updating and improving a vintage models operational characteristics without drastically altering the model.  This gives new life to old models which are many times neglected or resigned to sitting on shelves.  In fact, with a few exceptions if someone wanted to return one of our reworks to complete vintage condition with original motor and gearing they could easily do so.  However I have never found anyone who, after observing one of our reworked vintage models in operation, wanted to do so.  However, in the past when we did such work for customers, we always offered to return the original parts to them.

      Check out the video of the remotored and regeared vintage Gem Industrial Switcher on my Projects page or my 02/23/2013 Blog with attached video of the Mantua General in operation.   These vintage models can now be operated with pride along side newer models on any railroad.  

      In my postings I often refer to my former relationship with the Scottsdale Model Railroad Club.  The reason I am no longer a member there is because in building their new railroad the club went 100% DCC.  Though I do conversions to DCC for operation on other railroads, I continue to use DC for my own railroad and equipment.

      Everyone seemed to miss it but the other bad word I used in my posting of the Varney Casey Jones gear issue was decoder?  

      Remember guys, this is all coming from a guy who drives a 1955 Chevy with rebuilt original 6 cylinder motor complete with generator and not just to car shows but to the grocery store, to church and when dad is in town we use it to go to baseball Spring Training games.  How's that for vintage?

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: http://www.cwrailman.com/

      Facebook: CWRailman 

       


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21103 From: cwrailman Date: 4/18/2013
      Subject: Re: Revival of a CGW 4-6-0

      Vic,

      The 55 is DC controlled. 

      Speaking of updating vintage.  When those generators, as well as the starters which use similar brushes, were first made the brushes were a soft bronze and needed to be replaced about every 20-35k miles.  Now they are made of beryllium copper and last much longer.

      If you read my Locomotive Remotoring/Regearing clinic or my last posted loco project you will note that I use a piece of wet dry sand paper and hold it against the commutator when the motor is running to polish it up.  That is similar to the way we would put the generator armature on a lathe and turn the commutator prior to putting new brushes into the generator or starter.  It's doing the same thing.  

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris wrote:
      >
      > WOW, a stove bolt 6 with a generator! Does it have a straight drive or a peanut butter drive (pun intended)? I always did like the looks of the 1955 Chevys.
      > I remember generator cars well. I had to replace the brushes in the generator of my first car, a 1958 Ford Fairlane, before I could drive it to work when I was 16. We had an Auto-Electric shop 2 blocks away and I was able to purchase the brushes there for 50 cents. Ah yes, those were the days.
      > Regards,
      > Vic Bitleris
      > Raleigh, NC
      >
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > From: cwrailman@...
      > Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 22:26:39 +0000
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Revival of a CGW 4-6-0
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To see the latest project related to a vintage model check out our Revival of a Chicago Great Western 4-6-0. This 1958 vintage kit built model was converted from a noisy coffee grinder to a nice smooth running model.
      > I know there are some on this board who like to keep their Vintage models all vintage. However there are also those who like to operate their vintage models. The disparity between how those vintage models usually operate and today's offerings is vast and in many cases are the reason so many vintage models spend most of their life sitting on shelves. What we do here in our California Western Loco and Car Rebuild shops is attempt to narrow that disparity by updating and improving a vintage models operational characteristics without drastically altering the model. This gives new life to old models which are many times neglected or resigned to sitting on shelves. In fact, with a few exceptions if someone wanted to return one of our reworks to complete vintage condition with original motor and gearing they could easily do so. However I have never found anyone who, after observing one of our reworked vintage models in operation, wanted to do so. However, in the past when we did such work for customers, we always offered to return the original parts to them.
      > Check out the video of the remotored and regeared vintage Gem Industrial Switcher on my Projects page or my 02/23/2013 Blog with attached video of the Mantua General in operation. These vintage models can now be operated with pride along side newer models on any railroad.
      > In my postings I often refer to my former relationship with the Scottsdale Model Railroad Club. The reason I am no longer a member there is because in building their new railroad the club went 100% DCC. Though I do conversions to DCC for operation on other railroads, I continue to use DC for my own railroad and equipment.
      > Everyone seemed to miss it but the other bad word I used in my posting of the Varney Casey Jones gear issue was decoder?
      > Remember guys, this is all coming from a guy who drives a 1955 Chevy with rebuilt original 6 cylinder motor complete with generator and not just to car shows but to the grocery store, to church and when dad is in town we use it to go to baseball Spring Training games. How's that for vintage?
      > Denny
      > Janitor in Training
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      > WEB site: http://www.cwrailman.com/
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21104 From: gbwdude Date: 4/18/2013
      Subject: Re: Varney Casey Jones worm gear
      Howard and others,

      I have no idea if it would work or not, as this is my first Varney product to play with. I might do the NWSL route, but right now it's just research as I have a few projects in line before this one showed up.

      About half of my steam roster on the Whiskey River Railway is modern steam (IHC, Bachmann, Rivarossi, and the new Roundhouse) which just need aesthetics done, while the other half (said Varney, a Athearn Lil' Monster, a Mantua Eight-Ball and a Bowser K11) need the whole kit-and-kaboodle. The K11 will need a new boiler as well, when I got it off of eBay not only did the seller not disconnect the tender from the locomotive but also packed it very loosely and damaged the whole cab. On top of the damage the boiler was starting to deteriorate so it's a definite candidate for a replacement anyways.

      Thanks everyone for posting! I've got some DCC, Bachmann, and Reese's peanut butter cups to attend to now. :)

      Tyler

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Howard C. Taylor" <EITHLT@...> wrote:
      >
      > will a geared set from an old lady work in the casey jones? if so i have one . howard
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21105 From: Jim Heckard Date: 4/19/2013
      Subject: Roundhouse 0-6-0's
      Attachments :
      I just got another Roundhouse 0-6-0 with Sean's help to replace
      one I had before. You will see I made a Roundhouse 0-6-0 straight boiler
      with oil tender into an 0-6-0 Camel back with coal tender which had been
      seen before but I wanted to show the type of engine it came from.

      Jim H
        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21106 From: gary Date: 4/20/2013
      Subject: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      Hey guys,
      Does anyone have any old Revell junk laying around? I need a belt driven double ended worm gear for a 1957-58 Revell diesel. I have had this since the eary 70's when a friend of mine gave it to me incomplete. I also need a motor, but I figure I can fit a replacement motor in it. I just need the worm. There was a group of six frames, motors, etc. on the big auction but the bid got out of hand very quickly. I am willing to pay a fair price. I have had this so long I hate not to try to get it running. Thanks for any help.
      Gary Pardue
      Bluefield, VA
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21107 From: Jim Ruef Date: 4/21/2013
      Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      Gary
      I believe I have a couple of Revelle drives.  I am out of town on a layout building job and will be back in my shop on Monday.  I will look and see what I have.
      Jim Ruef
      Clown Alley Circus Tents & Trains

      From: gary <garyp552002@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:58 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] 1957-58 Revell Diesel
       
      Hey guys,
      Does anyone have any old Revell junk laying around? I need a belt driven double ended worm gear for a 1957-58 Revell diesel. I have had this since the eary 70's when a friend of mine gave it to me incomplete. I also need a motor, but I figure I can fit a replacement motor in it. I just need the worm. There was a group of six frames, motors, etc. on the big auction but the bid got out of hand very quickly. I am willing to pay a fair price. I have had this so long I hate not to try to get it running. Thanks for any help.
      Gary Pardue
      Bluefield, VA

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21108 From: vancampbell64 Date: 4/21/2013
      Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      Hello Gary,
      Just so happens that seller "kena8755" has a parts loco up for bid on eBay right now! Just a couple of days left on that auction and the it's open for bidding starting at $9.00 + shipping. Hurry! VBC.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey guys,
      > Does anyone have any old Revell junk laying around? I need a belt driven double ended worm gear for a 1957-58 Revell diesel. I have had this since the eary 70's when a friend of mine gave it to me incomplete. I also need a motor, but I figure I can fit a replacement motor in it. I just need the worm. There was a group of six frames, motors, etc. on the big auction but the bid got out of hand very quickly. I am willing to pay a fair price. I have had this so long I hate not to try to get it running. Thanks for any help.
      > Gary Pardue
      > Bluefield, VA
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21109 From: gary pardue Date: 4/21/2013
      Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      Thanks for the tip!
      Gary

      --- On Sun, 4/21/13, vancampbell64 <tehachapikid@...> wrote:

      From: vancampbell64 <tehachapikid@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, April 21, 2013, 7:22 AM

       
      Hello Gary,
      Just so happens that seller "kena8755" has a parts loco up for bid on eBay right now! Just a couple of days left on that auction and the it's open for bidding starting at $9.00 + shipping. Hurry! VBC.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey guys,
      > Does anyone have any old Revell junk laying around? I need a belt driven double ended worm gear for a 1957-58 Revell diesel. I have had this since the eary 70's when a friend of mine gave it to me incomplete. I also need a motor, but I figure I can fit a replacement motor in it. I just need the worm. There was a group of six frames, motors, etc. on the big auction but the bid got out of hand very quickly. I am willing to pay a fair price. I have had this so long I hate not to try to get it running. Thanks for any help.
      > Gary Pardue
      > Bluefield, VA
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21110 From: gary pardue Date: 4/21/2013
      Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      Jim,
      Thanks so much for the reply. I need the double ended worm gear that is belt drive, also a motor. If you have these or just the worm, please email price and postage and I will mail a check. Also will need your address. Thanks again!!!
      Gary

      --- On Sun, 4/21/13, Jim Ruef <jim_ruef@...> wrote:

      From: Jim Ruef <jim_ruef@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Sunday, April 21, 2013, 5:56 AM

       
      Gary
      I believe I have a couple of Revelle drives.  I am out of town on a layout building job and will be back in my shop on Monday.  I will look and see what I have.
      Jim Ruef
      Clown Alley Circus Tents & Trains

      From: gary <garyp552002@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:58 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] 1957-58 Revell Diesel
       
      Hey guys,
      Does anyone have any old Revell junk laying around? I need a belt driven double ended worm gear for a 1957-58 Revell diesel. I have had this since the eary 70's when a friend of mine gave it to me incomplete. I also need a motor, but I figure I can fit a replacement motor in it. I just need the worm. There was a group of six frames, motors, etc. on the big auction but the bid got out of hand very quickly. I am willing to pay a fair price. I have had this so long I hate not to try to get it running. Thanks for any help.
      Gary Pardue
      Bluefield, VA

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21111 From: bitlerisvj Date: 4/22/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Well, I received the Mantua Shark B-Unit on Friday and even though I had a very busy weekend, I was able to putter with the B-Unit some.  
      The GOOD news.
      1.  The chalky coating was easily removed by doing a 2 to 3  hour soak in a 10% vinegar/water solution.  The zamac looks brand new now.  There does not appear to be any zinc rot on the body at all.  One of the stirrup steps may or may not have it, it is difficult to tell without doing a destructive test on it, so I won't.  It may just be a casting issue making the stirrup step a bit rough looking.
      2. Powered, not running.  It runs very well now.  The biggest problem was the way the wire going to the rear truck was attached the motor brush rivet.  It was very loose and made almost no contact.  I soldered the ring to the rivet and fixed that part.  The other part was the armature shaft was just about bound up in the bearings.  It moved, but barely.  A bit of oil in he bearings fixed that part.  The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny.   The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing.  I may end doing that on a lathe later.  I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file.  I was able to get the motor to run at 3 volts, which is probably not bad for these old things.  The motor definitely has some vibration at various speeds and that needs to be addressed.  I will need to figure out a good way to balance it.  Maybe I will even replace the magnet with a neodymium stack and drop the current draw and lower the starting speed to boot.  We will see about that later, when I am ready to put in a GASP! DCC Decoder. :0)  Where's the peanut butter?  With the truck in the chassis, it started moving at 4 volts and has very good low speed characteristics.  I think these things were geared for slow speed.  So, now a good running B-Unit with a very good body.
      The BAD news.  
      1. The non-powered truck got cleaned up really good, it was the only truck with any oxidation on it.  But, one of the truck side frames shows a definite zinc rot.  The tell-tale cracks became very visible as the paint came off of the side frame.  I think for now, the truck will generally be ok, since the only spot where I see any issue is the end of the sideframe where the brake cylinder is located.  The remainder of the sideframe appears ok.  The other side frame looks perfect. 
      I know there are quite a few folks that re-powered Mantua Sharks with a Hobbytown of Boston chassis and discarded the original Mantua trucks, so there may be a few of those in someone's scrap pile.  Eventually, I may be able to get one.  I would only need a truck with at least one good sideframe as I can remove and replace this by drilling out the rivets.
      In any case, I am very pleased with that purchase and will now have an A-B-A lashup of Mantua Sharks.  These things should be able to pull just about anything on just about any grade, huh?
      Regards, Vic Bitleris
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote:
      >
      > Hi folks, I was lucky enough that this weekend I finally won one of
      > these on
      > ebay.http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-MANTUA-CAST-METAL-SHARKNOSE-B-UNIT\
      > -PWRD-NOT-RUNNING-/230959398656?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c640bf00&n\
      > ma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid\
      > =p2047675.l2557
      > >According to the text it does not run and the metal has a
      > bit of a chalky dusting on it. I am not sure what that means. 
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21112 From: erieberk Date: 4/22/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Hi Vic,

      Congrats on the nice find. On the zinc-rotted sideframe, I'm sure you know
      to fill any cracks with ACC Cyanoacrylate cement -- right? This should
      hold that area from further deterioration. If you see any other cracks
      starting, do the same with them. At least, this will extend its life until you can
      locate a replacement, but it may not advance further at this late date.

      Ray Wetzel</HTML>
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21113 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/22/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Thanks Ray, already did.  I think I may have read about that here.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: erieberk@...
      Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 11:07:42 -0400
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor

       
      Hi Vic,

      Congrats on the nice find. On the zinc-rotted sideframe, I'm sure you know
      to fill any cracks with ACC Cyanoacrylate cement -- right? This should
      hold that area from further deterioration. If you see any other cracks
      starting, do the same with them. At least, this will extend its life until you can
      locate a replacement, but it may not advance further at this late date.

      Ray Wetzel</HTML>

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21114 From: Nelson Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Hi Vic,

      I'd be worried about a cutting tool catching the edge of one or more of the segments and ripping the commutator apart. Older commutators either had slotted fiber discs on both ends of the segments holding them in place, or were injection molded with plastic or Bakelite (all Mantuas I've seen have the latter style). Using a file to take down any unevenness would be the most I'd feel safe with.

      Does the motor have much torque? Darth Santa Fe did a magnet replacement on his Shark because it was weak. The thread is somewhere on the Model Railroader forum.

      Nelson


      Vic wrote:

      "The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny. The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing. I may end doing that on a lathe later. I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file."
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21115 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Thanks Nelson, I will definitely consider this.  I really don't want to tear it up.  I did find a website that addressed replacing the original magnet with a 1/2" by 1/2" by 1/2" neodymium magnet.  It lowered the starting voltage, speed and dropped the current draw in half.  The original motor does have good torque, but I am sure that a new modern magnet would help it even more.  The other thing that will help is balancing.  It definitely vibrates at certain speeds.
      Regards, 
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: greenbrier614@...
      Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:02:06 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor

       
      Hi Vic,

      I'd be worried about a cutting tool catching the edge of one or more of the segments and ripping the commutator apart. Older commutators either had slotted fiber discs on both ends of the segments holding them in place, or were injection molded with plastic or Bakelite (all Mantuas I've seen have the latter style). Using a file to take down any unevenness would be the most I'd feel safe with.

      Does the motor have much torque? Darth Santa Fe did a magnet replacement on his Shark because it was weak. The thread is somewhere on the Model Railroader forum.

      Nelson

      Vic wrote:

      "The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny. The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing. I may end doing that on a lathe later. I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file."


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21116 From: bobbinbill229 Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      I have an engine, an FP45, so it's not THAT old, but it was made in Yugoslavia, I presume by AHM. It stalls whenever is crosses from one power block to another, whenever the front truck is in one block and the rear in another. Have any of you ever heard of this? Any solutions?

      This engine, which I bought used on E-Bay, had a strangely situated motor; it's just sitting there with no way to keep it in place, so it rattles, A LOT. I have it held in place with electrician's tape. There's one upside-down L-bracket holding the motor, but there ought to be another, or something to hold the motor from moving. Any thoughts? I presume they sold more than one of these engines, someone must have experience with one like this.

      Bill Scott
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21117 From: Charles Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Although in machining a "surprise" is always possible, it is also very, very common to turn a fresh surface onto the commutator of an armature.

      In fact, there is a thing an "armature lathe (and undercutter)". Once very common in automotive garages. They have a big enough swing to clear the armature of a generator, but only needed to be beefy enough to turn the much smaller diameter commutator.

      Undercutting is removing the insulation between coper segments to a small depth. You don't want the insulation flush with the copper surface. I don't know the best way to do this with a small motor. I would probably scrape at it with an X-acto blade or something. Or if there was room, use a very fine saw.

      Chuck Kinzer

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Nelson, I will definitely consider this. I really don't want to tear it up. I did find a website that addressed replacing the original magnet with a 1/2" by 1/2" by 1/2" neodymium magnet. It lowered the starting voltage, speed and dropped the current draw in half. The original motor does have good torque, but I am sure that a new modern magnet would help it even more. The other thing that will help is balancing. It definitely vibrates at certain speeds.Regards,
      > Vic Bitleris
      > Raleigh, NC
      >
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > From: greenbrier614@...
      > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:02:06 +0000
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Vic,
      >
      >
      >
      > I'd be worried about a cutting tool catching the edge of one or more of the segments and ripping the commutator apart. Older commutators either had slotted fiber discs on both ends of the segments holding them in place, or were injection molded with plastic or Bakelite (all Mantuas I've seen have the latter style). Using a file to take down any unevenness would be the most I'd feel safe with.
      >
      >
      >
      > Does the motor have much torque? Darth Santa Fe did a magnet replacement on his Shark because it was weak. The thread is somewhere on the Model Railroader forum.
      >
      >
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      >
      > Vic wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > "The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny. The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing. I may end doing that on a lathe later. I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file."
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21118 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      Hi Bill,
      I am going to guess that this is not DCC, but plain old DC with block control using switches.  I suspect that the two blocks are set for two different power sources.  Try to set both of the blocks for the same power source and once the loco is in the next block, then switch to the second power source.  If this is not your setup, please clarify and maybe someone can help further.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: wscott@...
      Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:22:40 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines

       
      I have an engine, an FP45, so it's not THAT old, but it was made in Yugoslavia, I presume by AHM. It stalls whenever is crosses from one power block to another, whenever the front truck is in one block and the rear in another. Have any of you ever heard of this? Any solutions?

      This engine, which I bought used on E-Bay, had a strangely situated motor; it's just sitting there with no way to keep it in place, so it rattles, A LOT. I have it held in place with electrician's tape. There's one upside-down L-bracket holding the motor, but there ought to be another, or something to hold the motor from moving. Any thoughts? I presume they sold more than one of these engines, someone must have experience with one like this.

      Bill Scott


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21119 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      Building on what Vic said, some AHM diesel locomotives (If not all) are four wheel pickup, left rail on one truck, right rail on the other.

      Depending on your block system, this may be the source of trouble.

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Tue, 4/23/13, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

      From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2013, 3:20 PM

       

      Hi Bill,
      I am going to guess that this is not DCC, but plain old DC with block control using switches.  I suspect that the two blocks are set for two different power sources.  Try to set both of the blocks for the same power source and once the loco is in the next block, then switch to the second power source.  If this is not your setup, please clarify and maybe someone can help further.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: wscott@...
      Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:22:40 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines

       
      I have an engine, an FP45, so it's not THAT old, but it was made in Yugoslavia, I presume by AHM. It stalls whenever is crosses from one power block to another, whenever the front truck is in one block and the rear in another. Have any of you ever heard of this? Any solutions?

      This engine, which I bought used on E-Bay, had a strangely situated motor; it's just sitting there with no way to keep it in place, so it rattles, A LOT. I have it held in place with electrician's tape. There's one upside-down L-bracket holding the motor, but there ought to be another, or something to hold the motor from moving. Any thoughts? I presume they sold more than one of these engines, someone must have experience with one like this.

      Bill Scott


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21120 From: Alan Kilby Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      You only have pickups on only 1 side of each truck,to fix this you will need to install all wheel pickups,pickups for only 1 rail on truck are fairly common just like a steam engines often have right rail pickups on loco and left rail pickups on tender which is why insulated drawbar is used to avoid short between loco and tender.
       I f you go to HOSEEKER website under AHM diesel diagrams they have the 1975-1980 fp-45 scematic which shows the pickups for one rail only on each truck.

       Alan
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21121 From: Bill Scott Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      Thank you, guys, for the explanation and the solution.  

      My wife is amazed at the breadth and depth of the knowledge in this group; I just expect it.

      Thanks, gain

      Bill



      On Apr 23, 2013, at 4:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:

       

      Building on what Vic said, some AHM diesel locomotives (If not all) are four wheel pickup, left rail on one truck, right rail on the other.

      Depending on your block system, this may be the source of trouble.

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Tue, 4/23/13, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

      From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2013, 3:20 PM

       

      Hi Bill,
      I am going to guess that this is not DCC, but plain old DC with block control using switches.  I suspect that the two blocks are set for two different power sources.  Try to set both of the blocks for the same power source and once the loco is in the next block, then switch to the second power source.  If this is not your setup, please clarify and maybe someone can help further.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: wscott@...
      Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:22:40 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines

       
      I have an engine, an FP45, so it's not THAT old, but it was made in Yugoslavia, I presume by AHM. It stalls whenever is crosses from one power block to another, whenever the front truck is in one block and the rear in another. Have any of you ever heard of this? Any solutions?

      This engine, which I bought used on E-Bay, had a strangely situated motor; it's just sitting there with no way to keep it in place, so it rattles, A LOT. I have it held in place with electrician's tape. There's one upside-down L-bracket holding the motor, but there ought to be another, or something to hold the motor from moving. Any thoughts? I presume they sold more than one of these engines, someone must have experience with one like this.

      Bill Scott



      Group: vintageHO Message: 21122 From: Riverboy Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      I worked for an auto electric shop for 8 years where we also rebuilt starters and alternators, and I turned hundreds of "comm ends" as we referred to them. We had a machine with a very narrow and small diamater (maybe 3/8") cutting wheel with clamps for both ends of the shaft and a carriage that slid back and forth, and that was how we undercut the insulation between the the copper bars of the comm end. However, model motors are far too small to have worked in that machine, but you might be able to adapt that design and scale it down.
       
      Tod C Dwyer (Ohio)

       


      --- On Tue, 4/23/13, Charles <ckinzer@...> wrote:

      From: Charles <ckinzer@...>
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2013, 3:33 PM

       
      Although in machining a "surprise" is always possible, it is also very, very common to turn a fresh surface onto the commutator of an armature.

      In fact, there is a thing an "armature lathe (and undercutter)". Once very common in automotive garages. They have a big enough swing to clear the armature of a generator, but only needed to be beefy enough to turn the much smaller diameter commutator.

      Undercutting is removing the insulation between coper segments to a small depth. You don't want the insulation flush with the copper surface. I don't know the best way to do this with a small motor. I would probably scrape at it with an X-acto blade or something. Or if there was room, use a very fine saw.

      Chuck Kinzer

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Nelson, I will definitely consider this. I really don't want to tear it up. I did find a website that addressed replacing the original magnet with a 1/2" by 1/2" by 1/2" neodymium magnet. It lowered the starting voltage, speed and dropped the current draw in half. The original motor does have good torque, but I am sure that a new modern magnet would help it even more. The other thing that will help is balancing. It definitely vibrates at certain speeds.Regards,
      > Vic Bitleris
      > Raleigh, NC
      >
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > From: greenbrier614@...
      > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:02:06 +0000
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Vic,
      >
      >
      >
      > I'd be worried about a cutting tool catching the edge of one or more of the segments and ripping the commutator apart. Older commutators either had slotted fiber discs on both ends of the segments holding them in place, or were injection molded with plastic or Bakelite (all Mantuas I've seen have the latter style). Using a file to take down any unevenness would be the most I'd feel safe with.
      >
      >
      >
      > Does the motor have much torque? Darth Santa Fe did a magnet replacement on his Shark because it was weak. The thread is somewhere on the Model Railroader forum.
      >
      >
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      >
      > Vic wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > "The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny. The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing. I may end doing that on a lathe later. I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file."
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21123 From: Nelson Date: 4/23/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      I found this commutator rebuilding tutorial. Not that it's necessary here, but interesting nonetheless.

      http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuiding-A-DC-Motor-Commutator/

      If there is any protruding insulation, then yes, it needs to be cut down, but the Mantua commutators I've seen have deep gaps cut between the segments and anything between them is just packed in brush dust.

      Vic, I also agree with a reply on the R&R group about how a file tends to bounce and retain the commutator high spot. I've used one with moderate success, reducing the bump but not eliminating it. A fixed cutter has the definite advantage there.

      I've also used the razor blade / drilling method to balance armatures, but it can be a little tricky when the heavy spot is somewhere between two poles. Then you have to drill into both to get the best compromise.

      Another method is to lay in strips of epoxy putty between the poles on the lighter side as a counterweight.

      Nelson



      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Although in machining a "surprise" is always possible, it is also very, very common to turn a fresh surface onto the commutator of an armature.
      >
      > In fact, there is a thing an "armature lathe (and undercutter)". Once very common in automotive garages. They have a big enough swing to clear the armature of a generator, but only needed to be beefy enough to turn the much smaller diameter commutator.
      >
      > Undercutting is removing the insulation between coper segments to a small depth. You don't want the insulation flush with the copper surface. I don't know the best way to do this with a small motor. I would probably scrape at it with an X-acto blade or something. Or if there was room, use a very fine saw.
      >
      > Chuck Kinzer
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21124 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Thanks nelson,  this is really good stuff.  The commutator rebuild is really cool.  The Mantua motor commutator is about half the size of the one shown in the demo, but it may actually be doable if absolutely necessary.  Let's hope not.  I would hate to have to cut each segment with a razor saw....UGH!  I will try out the lathe cutting tool by turning the lathe by hand through all of the motions first, then will apply power at a slow speed and only cut off about .001 or .002 at a time.  How does that sound?  I am thinking the three jaw chuck should be more than adequate.  Setting a 4 -jaw is very tedious and I usually only do that when chucking an odd shaped piece.  I agree about the Mantua undercut, it is fairly deep and I am sure I will not reveal it during the truing up process.  I do really like the idea of adding epoxy between poles if that area is found heavy.  I suspect that would be better than drilling 2 poles.
      This is very good stuff, I am glad I asked.
      Regards,
      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: greenbrier614@...
      Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 03:59:50 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor

       
      I found this commutator rebuilding tutorial. Not that it's necessary here, but interesting nonetheless.

      http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuiding-A-DC-Motor-Commutator/

      If there is any protruding insulation, then yes, it needs to be cut down, but the Mantua commutators I've seen have deep gaps cut between the segments and anything between them is just packed in brush dust.

      Vic, I also agree with a reply on the R&R group about how a file tends to bounce and retain the commutator high spot. I've used one with moderate success, reducing the bump but not eliminating it. A fixed cutter has the definite advantage there.

      I've also used the razor blade / drilling method to balance armatures, but it can be a little tricky when the heavy spot is somewhere between two poles. Then you have to drill into both to get the best compromise.

      Another method is to lay in strips of epoxy putty between the poles on the lighter side as a counterweight.

      Nelson

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Although in machining a "surprise" is always possible, it is also very, very common to turn a fresh surface onto the commutator of an armature.
      >
      > In fact, there is a thing an "armature lathe (and undercutter)". Once very common in automotive garages. They have a big enough swing to clear the armature of a generator, but only needed to be beefy enough to turn the much smaller diameter commutator.
      >
      > Undercutting is removing the insulation between coper segments to a small depth. You don't want the insulation flush with the copper surface. I don't know the best way to do this with a small motor. I would probably scrape at it with an X-acto blade or something. Or if there was room, use a very fine saw.
      >
      > Chuck Kinzer


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21125 From: gary pardue Date: 4/24/2013
      Subject: Re: 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      Jim,
      Just wondered if you had a chance to look for the Revell drives?
       Thanks!!!
      Gary

      --- On Sun, 4/21/13, Jim Ruef <jim_ruef@...> wrote:

      From: Jim Ruef <jim_ruef@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1957-58 Revell Diesel
      To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Sunday, April 21, 2013, 5:56 AM

       
      Gary
      I believe I have a couple of Revelle drives.  I am out of town on a layout building job and will be back in my shop on Monday.  I will look and see what I have.
      Jim Ruef
      Clown Alley Circus Tents & Trains

      From: gary <garyp552002@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:58 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] 1957-58 Revell Diesel
       
      Hey guys,
      Does anyone have any old Revell junk laying around? I need a belt driven double ended worm gear for a 1957-58 Revell diesel. I have had this since the eary 70's when a friend of mine gave it to me incomplete. I also need a motor, but I figure I can fit a replacement motor in it. I just need the worm. There was a group of six frames, motors, etc. on the big auction but the bid got out of hand very quickly. I am willing to pay a fair price. I have had this so long I hate not to try to get it running. Thanks for any help.
      Gary Pardue
      Bluefield, VA

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21126 From: Charles Date: 4/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      I suggest centering armature in the lathe with the best means you have available. And that would be the 4-jaw. Using a 4-jaw can be done quite quickly with a little practice and is much better than turning the commutator a few or more thousandths off center.

      4-Jaw tip: Use two chuck wrenches on opposite sides simultaneously such that when you loosen one,you tighten the other.

      Chuck Kinzer

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks nelson, this is really good stuff. The commutator rebuild is really cool. The Mantua motor commutator is about half the size of the one shown in the demo, but it may actually be doable if absolutely necessary. Let's hope not. I would hate to have to cut each segment with a razor saw....UGH! I will try out the lathe cutting tool by turning the lathe by hand through all of the motions first, then will apply power at a slow speed and only cut off about .001 or .002 at a time. How does that sound? I am thinking the three jaw chuck should be more than adequate. Setting a 4 -jaw is very tedious and I usually only do that when chucking an odd shaped piece. I agree about the Mantua undercut, it is fairly deep and I am sure I will not reveal it during the truing up process. I do really like the idea of adding epoxy between poles if that area is found heavy. I suspect that would be better than drilling 2 poles.This is very good stuff, I am glad I asked.Regards,
      > Vic Bitleris
      > Raleigh, NC
      >
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > From: greenbrier614@...
      > Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 03:59:50 +0000
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I found this commutator rebuilding tutorial. Not that it's necessary here, but interesting nonetheless.
      >
      >
      >
      > http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuiding-A-DC-Motor-Commutator/
      >
      >
      >
      > If there is any protruding insulation, then yes, it needs to be cut down, but the Mantua commutators I've seen have deep gaps cut between the segments and anything between them is just packed in brush dust.
      >
      >
      >
      > Vic, I also agree with a reply on the R&R group about how a file tends to bounce and retain the commutator high spot. I've used one with moderate success, reducing the bump but not eliminating it. A fixed cutter has the definite advantage there.
      >
      >
      >
      > I've also used the razor blade / drilling method to balance armatures, but it can be a little tricky when the heavy spot is somewhere between two poles. Then you have to drill into both to get the best compromise.
      >
      >
      >
      > Another method is to lay in strips of epoxy putty between the poles on the lighter side as a counterweight.
      >
      >
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@> wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Although in machining a "surprise" is always possible, it is also very, very common to turn a fresh surface onto the commutator of an armature.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > In fact, there is a thing an "armature lathe (and undercutter)". Once very common in automotive garages. They have a big enough swing to clear the armature of a generator, but only needed to be beefy enough to turn the much smaller diameter commutator.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Undercutting is removing the insulation between coper segments to a small depth. You don't want the insulation flush with the copper surface. I don't know the best way to do this with a small motor. I would probably scrape at it with an X-acto blade or something. Or if there was room, use a very fine saw.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Chuck Kinzer
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21127 From: vancampbell64 Date: 4/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Vic,
      I have "re-conditioned" many a Athearn Hi-F motor and have a great way to resurface commutators. After dis-assembling the motor, I place the commutator end of the motor shaft in my drill press and, on low speed, use cut strips of 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper saturated with WD-40 and loop them around the commutator and move them back and forth across the surface of the commutator, applying a slightly more aggressive pressure toward the outside (un-worn) parts of the commutator. Afterwards, the armature assembly is thoroughly cleaned with a high quality spray electrical cleaner available at most auto parts outlets. Cheap, quick and it works great for "high-mileage" motors! VBC.
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Vic,
      >
      > I'd be worried about a cutting tool catching the edge of one or more of the segments and ripping the commutator apart. Older commutators either had slotted fiber discs on both ends of the segments holding them in place, or were injection molded with plastic or Bakelite (all Mantuas I've seen have the latter style). Using a file to take down any unevenness would be the most I'd feel safe with.
      >
      > Does the motor have much torque? Darth Santa Fe did a magnet replacement on his Shark because it was weak. The thread is somewhere on the Model Railroader forum.
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      > Vic wrote:
      >
      > "The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny. The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing. I may end doing that on a lathe later. I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file."
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21128 From: Nelson Date: 4/24/2013
      Subject: Re: Made in Yugoslavia (AHM?) engines
      Bill,

      Yes, it was made for AHM by Mehano. It should only have 4 axles powered.

      There is supposed to be a plastic retaining fork holding down the other end of the motor. I actually have a spare from a remotoring job.

      Nelson



      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bobbinbill229" <wscott@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have an engine, an FP45, so it's not THAT old, but it was made in Yugoslavia, I presume by AHM. It stalls whenever is crosses from one power block to another, whenever the front truck is in one block and the rear in another. Have any of you ever heard of this? Any solutions?
      >
      > This engine, which I bought used on E-Bay, had a strangely situated motor; it's just sitting there with no way to keep it in place, so it rattles, A LOT. I have it held in place with electrician's tape. There's one upside-down L-bracket holding the motor, but there ought to be another, or something to hold the motor from moving. Any thoughts? I presume they sold more than one of these engines, someone must have experience with one like this.
      >
      > Bill Scott
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21129 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 4/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Mantua Shark motor
      Thanks for that.  I may end up doing that with the armature in my lathe chuck.  I will first check it for concentricity and see if it is ok.  Hopefully I won't need to do any actual cutting.

      Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      From: tehachapikid@...
      Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:11:37 +0000
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Shark motor

       

      Vic,
      I have "re-conditioned" many a Athearn Hi-F motor and have a great way to resurface commutators. After dis-assembling the motor, I place the commutator end of the motor shaft in my drill press and, on low speed, use cut strips of 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper saturated with WD-40 and loop them around the commutator and move them back and forth across the surface of the commutator, applying a slightly more aggressive pressure toward the outside (un-worn) parts of the commutator. Afterwards, the armature assembly is thoroughly cleaned with a high quality spray electrical cleaner available at most auto parts outlets. Cheap, quick and it works great for "high-mileage" motors! VBC.
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Vic,
      >
      > I'd be worried about a cutting tool catching the edge of one or more of the segments and ripping the commutator apart. Older commutators either had slotted fiber discs on both ends of the segments holding them in place, or were injection molded with plastic or Bakelite (all Mantuas I've seen have the latter style). Using a file to take down any unevenness would be the most I'd feel safe with.
      >
      > Does the motor have much torque? Darth Santa Fe did a magnet replacement on his Shark because it was weak. The thread is somewhere on the Model Railroader forum.
      >
      > Nelson
      >
      >
      > Vic wrote:
      >
      > "The commutator is a bit worn, but using a bit of very fine wet/dry sandpaper got that part nice and shiny. The brushes are in good shape, but I think the commutator still needs a bit of re-surfacing. I may end doing that on a lathe later. I will need to read up on that to see if I can use a cutting tool or a fine file."
      >


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21130 From: Carl Neste Date: 4/25/2013
      Subject: Looking for kit instructions
      I have a Empire City Models PRR 60' Express boxcar kit that lacks
      instructions. Do any of you have a copy you could spare or scan for me?
      I already checked HOseeker - no luck.
      Carl Neste
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21131 From: luvprr2003 Date: 4/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Looking for kit instructions
      Sure. No problem. Art Waite luvprr@...
       
      In a message dated 4/25/2013 3:50:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cmneste@... writes:
      I have a Empire City Models PRR 60' Express boxcar kit that lacks
      instructions. Do any of you have a copy you could spare or scan for me?
      I already checked HOseeker - no luck.
      Carl Neste


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      Group: vintageHO Message: 21132 From: Carl Neste Date: 4/25/2013
      Subject: Re: Looking for kit instructions
      Thanks, Art. That's one of a zillion older wood kits that I'm starting to build.
      My email is cmneste@... if you plan to send it as a scan. My home address is:
      Carl Neste
      116 Deer Run Lane
      Harvest AL 35749
      if you intend to mail it. Whatever is most convenient to you. If there's postage involved I'll be glad to reimburse you.
      Carl

      On 4/25/2013 2:52 PM, luvprr@... wrote:
       

      Sure. No problem. Art Waite luvprr@...
       
      In a message dated 4/25/2013 3:50:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cmneste@... writes:
      I have a Empire City Models PRR 60' Express boxcar kit that lacks
      instructions. Do any of you have a copy you could spare or scan for me?
      I already checked HOseeker - no luck.
      Carl Neste


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21133 From: Alan Date: 4/30/2013
      Subject: DEVORE COUPLERS?
      I was looking through some old loco parts and found a small bag with what appears to be working coupler parts,shank with 1 knuckle cast on,a seperate knuckle,draft springs,knuckle pins and coupler boxes.The name devore is stamped on coupler boxes
      Can anyone shed some light on these?
      Alan
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21134 From: rhbale8 Date: 4/30/2013
      Subject: Re: DEVORE COUPLERS?
      The Devore coupler was developed in the late 1940s by John Devore of South Pasadena, California. Both HO and O scale versions of the automatic coupler were offered. In addition to the coupler, Devore manufactured HO scale trucks and car kits. Devore was later acquired by Cliff Line which included the Devore coupler in its HO kits. See the December 1951 issue of Model Railroader for a review of Devore couplers.
       
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21135 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/2/2013
      Subject: Hybrid DL-109's
      I'm going to think of these as vintage.......

      I just got a pair of brass Milwaukee Road DL-109's into the house [via eBay] that I don't know who made them, but the shells are just simply beautiful as Milwaukee Road 14-A and 14-B........ -very- nicely painted.

      The chassis seems to be original brass run. But the power trucks are definitely Athearn [PA-1] power trucks and both units are powered.

      I don't know if I got some sort of owner re-hab, or something that came from the importer like that. I've not yet opened the bodies to see what motor and drive shafts are used.

      I knew about the Athearn drive in these. The models looked so fine in eBay that I didn't care if I had an imported drive or not. Knowing how troublesome an import drive can be, the Athearn Drive trucks seemed to be a plus. I thought I might have to complete the paint job with lining decals, but no!

      It has what looks like original unit cut-out foam in a red brass import box.

      I just looked at the very bottom of the import style box and there is a clear strip label id'ing it as a Hallmark DL-109 A/A set Custom Painted. [computer printed label?] On the end is a hand written white stick-on label of 'Milw DL-109 2-A's'. There is nothing like the common factory label on the box.

      I see no sign of rail use on the wheels. The wheels are the sintered iron type of wheels with the later inner bearings of Athearn production. Maybe these were never run. The bodies look perfect and there is what seems to be factory packing between the trucks and the bodies.

      Do I have a very skillfully re-powered pair of Hallmark DL-109's???

      Or were some brought over with this drive in them?

      I wonder...........

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA
        @@attachment@@
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21136 From: Jim Heckard Date: 5/3/2013
      Subject: want to buy
      Looking to buy a Varney 2-8-0 Heavy Consolidation that has the
      front lead wheels off and has the special pilot Varney made to change
      this engine to an 0-8-0 Heavy Switcher. I don't want the Varney light
      Consolidation Old Lady that is missing the lead truck. Contact me off
      line with price and condition.

      Jim Heckard
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21137 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/3/2013
      Subject: Mantua Talgo Train streamliner
      I'd like to talk about an on-going project of mine.

      Many months ago I downgraded my expectations on getting a complete Mantua Talgo Train because I just wasn't winning on the auctions for them. I changed my focus and managed to get a very nice condition engine shell of it, and then..................  somehow miss-placed it 

      Months later I was able to get a second shell and a couple of weeks later found where the first shell had fallen behind a desk. Both are undec'd in silver.

      Keeping at it, I was able to win out at about the third ongoing auction to get the mating car set for it.

      What strange colors........ Pale Blue, Faded Yellow, and off-Gray

      I wanted to take apart and cast duplicate cars to make a decent length of train. Three cars is just too short, and they certainly are short individual cars to begin with. But while the paint was quite shop worn, the mechanicals of the cars were surprisingly complex and it looked like it would damage the units to remove the bodies from the chassis's. I found more rivets than screws holding it together. So I want back to staying alert for another car set.

      I got the win last week and they look to be in better condition. I'll have that car set in my hands next week.

      I will then be able to feel good about stripping down the worse of the the two car sets, prepping the surface to compensate for any paint chipping, and casting the three different cars.

      I'll attach some images from one of the past eBay auctions. Until recently, I had only seen B/W pictures of this train and its a surprise to see what they are in color.

      I want at least one train-set of engine and cars for a 7-10 car train. I won't be making the wheels as complex as the original. The original actually steers some individual wheels rather than having solid wheel-axle sets under the car.

      It looks like there is one entry car in a fixed set of three cars as the original set. I'd like to make a longer train in combinations of three car sets. It looks like the curved out end of the center car needs to be added to the front [entry] car of a mid-train tree car set to have the full train set, be a Talgo train. So I need to cast four car types to make the proper mix of combined three car-set longer Talgo train

      I'm thinking of doing a Talgo Locomotive as a single power truck with trailer truck as was the original Mantua production. But this will be with contemporary drive components. I'm thinking of going with 2/3 of an Athearn SW-switcher with the Flexicoil sideframes. The trailing truck will be a fabrication from some bar metal to be a short wheelbase truck similar to the Mantua production.

      I want to rehab the original set and one of the engine bodies into a close replica of the Mantua, with the newer drive.

      Eventually I'll assemble a long set with the castings using the original Mantua scheme as well as a long set in a more typical scheme with shiny chrome and a yet to be decided trim color.

      I'll show it as it progresses. I want lights in and out. Marker lights and number lights are wanted as well. I have some long stored high-back modern coach seats that would be great for the interiors. I have led strip-lights for the interior roof. I know of Turbine sound units that might be good to install in the Talgo's.

      There is a distinctive logo on the side of some of the Mantua Talgo cars that are not in the greatest condition on my first car set. I'll see to it that a fresh version of that gets on the completed units.

      The average RTV mold can produce about 25 prime copies before it begins to break down. I'll be able to get all of the cars I need from the first molds I make. I need three car styles, one end, and one locomotive mold. I need to cast two locomotives, two observations, six entry cars, four 'adapter' ends, and ten mid-set coaches to make two long-set Talgo Trains.

      If all goes well, I'll have the donor cars prepped in about two weeks from now.

      Next item to get is a fine rubbing compound to polish the donor shells to a very smooth, unblemished surface.

      Images of a fairly nice looking original train set attached....

      I think the whole project is going to be fun.

      Best to ya...
      Mike Bauers
      Milwaukee, Wi, USA







      Group: vintageHO Message: 21138 From: Jim Heckard Date: 5/4/2013
      Subject: Forget my want
      >
      >
      > Forget about my want for a Varney 0-8-0.
      > To many bills.
      >
      > Jim H
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21139 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 5/5/2013
      Subject: Re: Forget My Want
      I heard THAT!
       
      Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)


      1. Forget my want   
          From: Jim Heckard


      Message
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1. Forget my want
          Posted by: "Jim Heckard" jimheck@... jimheck28
          Date: Sat May 4, 2013 7:28 am ((PDT))



      >
      >
      > Forget about my want for a Varney 0-8-0.
      > To many bills.
      >
      >                                         Jim H






      Messages in this topic (1)





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      Group: vintageHO Message: 21140 From: Jim Heckard Date: 5/5/2013
      Subject: good laugh
      >
      > When my pension checks and SS check started coming in I thought
      > it would be nice to find something to work on. That's why I started
      > looking for a Varney 0-8-0 Heavy Consolidation. The problem is in the
      > next few days bills started coming in I wasn't planning on till next
      > month. Prepaid oil for next winter, car and home owners insurance
      > policies, property taxes, medical bills, etc. Before you know it the
      > bills way outnumbered the money available. End the searching for a new
      > project. I'm sure I'm not the first one this has happened to.
      >
      > Jim H
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21141 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 5/5/2013
      Subject: Re: good laugh
      it’s going to work out, things will settle down and you could work up to it a piece at a time I do that with computers I never have enough money to buy a whole system at one time so I get it one component at a time and get there in the end .
      oh I donate plasma at biolife they give me $20 on the first draw of the week and $30 on the second it takes about an hour to do that is good pocket money
       
      Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:08 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] good laugh
       
       

      >
      > When my pension checks and SS check started coming in I thought
      > it would be nice to find something to work on. That's why I started
      > looking for a Varney 0-8-0 Heavy Consolidation. The problem is in the
      > next few days bills started coming in I wasn't planning on till next
      > month. Prepaid oil for next winter, car and home owners insurance
      > policies, property taxes, medical bills, etc. Before you know it the
      > bills way outnumbered the money available. End the searching for a new
      > project. I'm sure I'm not the first one this has happened

      to.
      >
      > Jim H
      >
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21142 From: Richard Carbo Date: 5/5/2013
      Subject: Re: good laugh
      Welcome to the real world. :). I have had the same experience. Happens more often than I like. Richard

      Sent from my iPad

      On May 5, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:

       

      >
      > When my pension checks and SS check started coming in I thought
      > it would be nice to find something to work on. That's why I started
      > looking for a Varney 0-8-0 Heavy Consolidation. The problem is in the
      > next few days bills started coming in I wasn't planning on till next
      > month. Prepaid oil for next winter, car and home owners insurance
      > policies, property taxes, medical bills, etc. Before you know it the
      > bills way outnumbered the money available. End the searching for a new
      > project. I'm sure I'm not the first one this has happened to.
      >
      > Jim H
      >
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21143 From: jbark76 Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21144 From: Sean Naylor Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      Hi Jeff,
      If you have a part # or picture of one, I'll most likely have it. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:18 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front

       
      I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff



      Group: vintageHO Message: 21145 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      I have a catalog.  Measure the diameter of the front of the boiler and I will be able to give you a part number for the boiler front to give to Sean.

      Don Staton in VA.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      On 5/6/2013 11:18 AM, jbark76 wrote:
       

      I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21146 From: Geo Stahlberg Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      Cary parts should be avaiable through Bowser.  George

      From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:18 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
       
      I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21147 From: John Hagen Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front

      And if Sean doesn’t have it check with Bowser. Look in their Cary list. While they have discontinued all Bowser steam kits they seem to still be keeping the Cary and Selley lines. Even if they aren’t producing new pieces they may well  still have stock available.

       

      John Hagen

       

      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald R. Staton
      Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 11:27 AM
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front

       

       

      I have a catalog.  Measure the diameter of the front of the boiler and I will be able to give you a part number for the boiler front to give to Sean.

      Don Staton in VA.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      On 5/6/2013 11:18 AM, jbark76 wrote:

       

      I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff

       

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21148 From: jbark76 Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      1 7/64" which would correspond to an SB-105 from Cary (looks like Cal-Scale SB-236 PRR 7'6", which is a hair too big). However, Cal-Scale has an SB-243 USRA 81" that fits the light boiler (That looks like what I have with my light boiler). I wondered if there was a larger front specifically for the USRA.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21149 From: Dennis Kunkel Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      I think the Cary heavy boiler front is Cary #114, and the Cary light boiler front is Cal-Scale #243.

      Dennis K


      From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:18 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front

       
      I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff



      Group: vintageHO Message: 21150 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      That dimension is a #13-105 Cary in Bowser's catalog 15th edition.
      Don Staton in VA.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      On 5/6/2013 2:32 PM, jbark76 wrote:
       

      1 7/64" which would correspond to an SB-105 from Cary (looks like Cal-Scale SB-236 PRR 7'6", which is a hair too big). However, Cal-Scale has an SB-243 USRA 81" that fits the light boiler (That looks like what I have with my light boiler). I wondered if there was a larger front specifically for the USRA.


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21151 From: jbark76 Date: 5/6/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      The Cary #114 looks like the right one, now I know what to look for. Thanks everyone! Jeff

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Kunkel <dtkunkel@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think the Cary heavy boiler front is Cary #114, and the Cary light boiler front is Cal-Scale #243.
      >
      > Dennis K
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:18 AM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      > I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21152 From: Sean Naylor Date: 5/7/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      I'll see if I have it. 
       
      Sean

      "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

      From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:32 AM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front

       


      The Cary #114 looks like the right one, now I know what to look for. Thanks everyone! Jeff

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Kunkel <dtkunkel@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think the Cary heavy boiler front is Cary #114, and the Cary light boiler front is Cal-Scale #243.
      >
      > Dennis K
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:18 AM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      > I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff
      >



      Group: vintageHO Message: 21153 From: johnhutnick Date: 5/9/2013
      Subject: 4-4-0
      I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and headlight are all added brass castings.
      I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that this works out.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21154 From: Bill Scott Date: 5/9/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      You should be very proud of your work!

      Bill Scott



      On May 9, 2013, at 1:33 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:

       

      I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and headlight are all added brass castings.
      I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that this works out.


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21155 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/9/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      On 5/9/2013 12:33 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      > I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and headlight are all added brass castings.
      > I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that this works out.
      >
      >
      >
      Looks good. I would suggest however that you resize your originals
      before you upload them. The picture shows up fine in regular and large
      format, but when you try and view "original size" it's too big for Yahoo
      to handle and all you see is the boiler front and the pilot.
      You should be able to do this easily in any photo processing software (I
      use Irfanview which has the advantage of being freeware <G>))

      I generally try and resize my photos to be not over 1200 pixels in the
      largest dimension. That will fill the screen on most monitors. (Not to
      mention saving file space. While we do have a large amount of space
      (100 gig) in the pictures area, it's not infinite (but darned close <G>).

      Don
      Listowner

      --
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21156 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/9/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      I second that!

      Walter


      On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bill Scott <wscott@...> wrote:
       

      You should be very proud of your work!


      Bill Scott



      On May 9, 2013, at 1:33 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:

       

      I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and headlight are all added brass castings.
      I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that this works out.


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21157 From: Sean Naylor Date: 5/9/2013
      Subject: Re: Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      Jeff

      I have a CARY SB-114 cover

      Now I need an address. 

      Sean

      Sent from my iPhone

      On May 7, 2013, at 1:32 AM, "jbark76" <jbark76@...> wrote:

       



      The Cary #114 looks like the right one, now I know what to look for. Thanks everyone! Jeff

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Kunkel <dtkunkel@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think the Cary heavy boiler front is Cary #114, and the Cary light boiler front is Cal-Scale #243.
      >
      > Dennis K
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: jbark76 <jbark76@...>
      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 11:18 AM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] Cary USRA Heavy Boiler Front
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      > I just got a Cary boiler for a USRA Heavy (Mikado?), but it didn't have the boiler front. I thought I might have one with my parts, but I didn't. Did Cary or Cal-Scale offer that part individually? So far I can't find a part number for it. Thanks, Jeff
      >

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21158 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 5/9/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      Building on what Don said, if you have Windows XP, there is a "Power Toy" from Microsoft that  allows you to right click an image, and in the menu that comes up, will be a "resize utility", which allows you to do multiple images at the same time too. For some reason this tool was not continued to Windows Vista or newer, but there are a few individuals who have recoded it for Vista and 7.

      Windows XP link:
      http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/xp-downloads#2TC=powertoys

      Vista/7 (Antivirus may pick up a false positive as it adds an item to your context menu, something malware can do as well, but it is perfectly safe!)
      http://imageresizer.codeplex.com/

      Will have to check out the locomotive now!

      -Steve Neubaum

      --- On Thu, 5/9/13, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

      From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 4-4-0
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, May 9, 2013, 5:18 PM

       

      On 5/9/2013 12:33 PM, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      > I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and headlight are all added brass castings.
      > I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that this works out.
      >
      >
      >
      Looks good. I would suggest however that you resize your originals
      before you upload them. The picture shows up fine in regular and large
      format, but when you try and view "original size" it's too big for Yahoo
      to handle and all you see is the boiler front and the pilot.
      You should be able to do this easily in any photo processing software (I
      use Irfanview which has the advantage of being freeware <G>))

      I generally try and resize my photos to be not over 1200 pixels in the
      largest dimension. That will fill the screen on most monitors. (Not to
      mention saving file space. While we do have a large amount of space
      (100 gig) in the pictures area, it's not infinite (but darned close <G>).

      Don
      Listowner

      --
      Don Dellmann
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
      Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21159 From: louis niederlander Date: 5/10/2013
      Subject: Re: cardboard box
      A question for the group.....
       
      When collecting Lionel or American Flyer, there is merit in having the originak box.   Original boxes are sold on their own without contents.  I happened upon a Tyco civil war blue train set box.  It is rough but with the dry cleaning methods i have heard others use, it could be a valid enclosure for a set.  It had its internal flyleafs intact inside.  Okay - so do i dump it?  save it? of use to anyone?
       
      Louis N
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21160 From: John Hagen Date: 5/10/2013
      Subject: Re: cardboard box

      Louis,

       

      Original boxes are a panacea for collectors. Anything in an ob is going to have more value than the same piece without the ob. Sometimes the value is doubled (or more) with the box.

       

      So if you have a box for “collectable” item, and collectable is in the eye of the beholder it is definitely worth retaining and trying to sell. If I had that box I would try to dry clean it (depending on cost of course) and put it on eBay asap. Anything that is worth something today may not be tomorrow. So unless you had a whole set I doubt there would much gain and possible loss by holding.

       

      Also, set the starting price at a reasonable level. I have a Tenshodo CNW 4-4-2 and there has been an ob for it on eBay for some time now. The guy wants $15.00 for it and the model is not a very valuable one so my paying 40% of the models price for the box seems ludicrous to me. Judging by its lack of a buyer I am not alone in that feeling.

       

      John Hagen

       

      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of louis niederlander
      Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:44 AM
      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] cardboard box

       

       

      A question for the group.....
       
      When collecting Lionel or American Flyer, there is merit in having the originak box.   Original boxes are sold on their own without contents.  I happened upon a Tyco civil war blue train set box.  It is rough but with the dry cleaning methods i have heard others use, it could be a valid enclosure for a set.  It had its internal flyleafs intact inside.  Okay - so do i dump it?  save it? of use to anyone?
       
      Louis N

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21161 From: 23weldon Date: 5/10/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      WOW!, John.  That Belle is sure pretty.  Sets me to hankering after one myself.
      Have you dealt with remotoring or anything like that?  Or does she run pretty well with the original hardware?
      Ed Weldon
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21162 From: cwrailman Date: 5/18/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0

      John,

      Very nice looking locomotive. Nice clean workmanship also.  What method did you use to solder the castings to the boiler or any of the brass components?  

      I would consider replacing the pony wheels with some spoked ones from Precision scale and maybe the tender truck wheels with some plated ones. 

      Have you done anything to improve the electrical.  Additional wipers or........

      Very nice job.

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      >
      > I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and headlight are all added brass castings.
      > I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that this works out.
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21163 From: John H Date: 5/18/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      Denny,

      Never did one of these locos myself (albeit if I can ever find a Belle that I can afford....) but FWIU (and according to the instructions on hoseeker) the various castings in them screwed on, no need to solder them.

      John Hagen

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > John,
      >
      > Very nice looking locomotive. Nice clean workmanship also. What method
      > did you use to solder the castings to the boiler or any of the brass
      > components?
      >
      > I would consider replacing the pony wheels with some spoked ones from
      > Precision scale and maybe the tender truck wheels with some plated ones.
      >
      > Have you done anything to improve the electrical. Additional wipers
      > or........
      >
      > Very nice job.
      >
      > Denny
      >
      > Janitor in Training
      >
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      >
      > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, johnhutnick@ wrote:
      > >
      > > I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua
      > 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I
      > stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with
      > a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the
      > cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and
      > headlight are all added brass castings.
      > > I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that
      > this works out.
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21164 From: johnhutnick Date: 5/19/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0
      For soldering of large components like domes, I use 2 methods. First is a large carbon probe, clipping the ground to body somewhere. I will apply flux around the joint and position a number of tiny solder cuttings around. Then heat boiler at several close spots until the dome gets hot. The tiny solder pieces will melt and at some point just suck themselves into the joint. Alternately, I use a plumbing type air-acetylene torch with smallest tip. The benefit of this is no physical contact. Heat the top of the dome and it eventually becomes like a soldering iron. The hardest part is checking with a square to get the domes vertical. I can use almost any solder, but prefer a 145C tin-lead-cadmium from Eileen's in the UK. In the case of the Belle, I had to custom make one long screw(3-48) to clamp down through the stack to screw into the cylinder block(2-56 stripped). This allowed me to position the stack true and solder while it is fastened down.
      Also, I soldered a joint all around under my cab roof. Attaching it like this helps with the Mantua sides, which are flimsy.
      For a lot of projects, I like to do them with parts that I saved up over the years. I tend to not order anything if I can help it. I would really like a set of brass fox trucks, but will have to wait.
      For contact, I wire brush the tires with fine soft jewellers steel brushes from RioGrande supply. The whole boiler is also polished.

      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > John,
      >
      > Very nice looking locomotive. Nice clean workmanship also. What method
      > did you use to solder the castings to the boiler or any of the brass
      > components?
      >
      > I would consider replacing the pony wheels with some spoked ones from
      > Precision scale and maybe the tender truck wheels with some plated ones.
      >
      > Have you done anything to improve the electrical. Additional wipers
      > or........
      >
      > Very nice job.
      >
      > Denny
      >
      > Janitor in Training
      >
      > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      >
      > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/>
      > Facebook: CWRailman
      > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518>
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, johnhutnick@ wrote:
      > >
      > > I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua
      > 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I
      > stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with
      > a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the
      > cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and
      > headlight are all added brass castings.
      > > I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that
      > this works out.
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21165 From: cwrailman Date: 5/20/2013
      Subject: Re: 4-4-0

      So what you are saying in the first part is that you use a resistance soldering unit which powers the carbon probe?  What sort of settings are you using? 

      When using the torch, how do you keep the brass from turning colors?  Your work is very clean and neat which is why I am asking these questions.  Did you have a background in soldering or just pick it up as a hobby?  

      Denny

      Janitor in Training

      CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

      WEB site: CWRailman.com 

      Facebook: CWRailman 
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, johnhutnick@... wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > For soldering of large components like domes, I use 2 methods. First is a large carbon probe, clipping the ground to body somewhere. I will apply flux around the joint and position a number of tiny solder cuttings around. Then heat boiler at several close spots until the dome gets hot. The tiny solder pieces will melt and at some point just suck themselves into the joint. Alternately, I use a plumbing type air-acetylene torch with smallest tip. The benefit of this is no physical contact. Heat the top of the dome and it eventually becomes like a soldering iron. The hardest part is checking with a square to get the domes vertical. I can use almost any solder, but prefer a 145C tin-lead-cadmium from Eileen's in the UK. In the case of the Belle, I had to custom make one long screw(3-48) to clamp down through the stack to screw into the cylinder block(2-56 stripped). This allowed me to position the stack true and solder while it is fastened down.
      > Also, I soldered a joint all around under my cab roof. Attaching it like this helps with the Mantua sides, which are flimsy.
      > For a lot of projects, I like to do them with parts that I saved up over the years. I tend to not order anything if I can help it. I would really like a set of brass fox trucks, but will have to wait.
      > For contact, I wire brush the tires with fine soft jewellers steel brushes from RioGrande supply. The whole boiler is also polished.
      >
      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > John,
      > >
      > > Very nice looking locomotive. Nice clean workmanship also. What method
      > > did you use to solder the castings to the boiler or any of the brass
      > > components?
      > >
      > > I would consider replacing the pony wheels with some spoked ones from
      > > Precision scale and maybe the tender truck wheels with some plated ones.
      > >
      > > Have you done anything to improve the electrical. Additional wipers
      > > or........
      > >
      > > Very nice job.
      > >
      > > Denny
      > >
      > > Janitor in Training
      > >
      > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
      > >
      > > WEB site: CWRailman.com
      > > Facebook: CWRailman
      > >
      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, johnhutnick@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have uploaded one photo in my name "John Hutnick" of a recent Mantua
      > > 4-4-0. This is a Belle that I bought on Ebay with no cab for $1.50. I
      > > stripped the engine and rebuilt using a Mantua cab from the 2-6-0, with
      > > a new brass roof rolled from 1/32" stock. The roof is soldered to the
      > > cab all around the top for strength. The domes, stack, bell and
      > > headlight are all added brass castings.
      > > > I have never posted in this group or uploaded photos, so I hope that
      > > this works out.
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21166 From: rcjge Date: 5/20/2013
      Subject: Bread on the water...
      Hey guys:

      Haven't posted in a while since my energies tend more towards Machining and Vegetable gardens these days.

      In that vein I am going to cull some stuff off in the next bit.

      I have a trip planned to the Catskills in early June which would allow me to ship from stateside and save any purchaser on shipping obviously.

      The first few things I'm gonna sell are

      1/ Mantua (Metal) Baldwin Shark A/B combo ($80)

      2/ Athearn L`il Monster Original box no insert partly disassembled usually boiler tab connector's cracked off.

      3/ Athearn Hustlers (I think they are new in original boxes) with or without Ernst Gear kit in sealed original bag. I have I believe a complete second gear set but not in bag.

      4/ NJ Brass Flanger (Caboose) currently Pro Painted CNR ($150)

      5/ Varney Passenger car partially built, original box....

      ... have to unpack bins....

      I will try to get photo's and put in 4 Sale by Gareth Folder...

      Btw, if you're planning on emailing and saying how much do you want, the answer is I don't know with a few exceptions noted above. Basically what I will do is look at Evilbay, Average then Discount from there....

      Cheers,
      Gareth
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21167 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
      Subject: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz paint
      With apologies to Rich, I thought this important enough to forward to several more Model RR communities.

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: Rich Zellich <rich@...>
      Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:35 AM
      Subject: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz paints being discontinued
      To: traintools@yahoogroups.com


       

      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      Subject: Floquil and Polly scale to cease production...

      Hello to all...

      It appears that we will be loosing Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra and
      ColorArtz paints and that they will no longer be produced. It doesn't look
      as if anyone is going to pick up the brands either from what was being
      stated on the other list. My hobby painting and custom painting business is
      going to take a hit. Looks like I will be buying up big whilst they are
      still around......

      The below is a direct quote and response from Testors Consumer Affairs
      Department...

      "Dear Mr. ________

      There are many changes taking place at The Testor Corporation. For over 80
      years, we have provided premium paints and finishing systems to the craft
      and hobby industry. Recently we announced that we are transforming our
      business in order to more effectively address the changing needs of our
      consumers and their interests.

      We ve made the decision to exit the following businesses within the Testor
      Brand family - Pactra , Floquil , PollyScale , and ColorArtz .
      This will enable The Testor Corporation to return to our foundation of
      success providing premium, innovative product that inspires creativity.
      We will continue to accept orders and ship product for a limited time based
      on available quantities.

      Going forward, the following brands will be critical to our success and
      development - Testor , Model Master , and Aztek. These brands will be
      infused with marketing support, innovation and operational efficiencies.

      In support of this, we have announced a consolidation of operations at our
      Rockford facilities. Our commitment to the Testor brand has never been
      stronger. By implementing these changes, and the ability to leverage all
      of Rust-Oleum s world class services, we are more strongly poised to take
      our business to the next level through product and merchandising
      innovations, and increased customer understanding.

      If you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.

      We appreciate your business!!

      Sincerely,
      Beth

      The Testor Corporation
      Consumer Affairs Department
      1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
      M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST"




      --
      Regards,
      Walter
      Group: vintageHO Message: 21168 From: Brad Smith Date: 5/21/2013
      Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
      This must be an April's fool joke-late. 

      Brad Smith

      Sent from Brad's iPod

      On May 21, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

       

      With apologies to Rich, I thought this important enough to forward to several more Model RR communities.

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: Rich Zellich <rich@...>
      Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:35 AM
      Subject: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz paints being discontinued
      To: traintools@yahoogroups.com


       

      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      Subject: Floquil and Polly scale to cease production...

      Hello to all...

      It appears that we will be loosing Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra and
      ColorArtz paints and that they will no longer be produced. It doesn't look
      as if anyone is going to pick up the brands either from what was being
      stated on the other list. My hobby painting and custom painting business is
      going to take a hit. Looks like I will be buying up big whilst they are
      still around......

      The below is a direct quote and response from Testors Consumer Affairs
      Department...

      "Dear Mr. ________

      There are many changes taking place at The Testor Corporation. For over 80
      years, we have provided premium paints and finishing systems to the craft
      and hobby industry. Recently we announced that we are transforming our
      business in order to more effectively address the changing needs of our
      consumers and their interests.

      We ve made the decision to exit the following businesses within the Testor
      Brand family - Pactra , Floquil , PollyScale , and ColorArtz .
      This will enable The Testor Corporation to return to our foundation of
      success providing premium, innovative product that inspires creativity.
      We will continue to accept orders and ship product for a limited time based
      on available quantities.

      Going forward, the following brands will be critical to our success and
      development - Testor , Model Master , and Aztek. These brands will be
      infused with marketing support, innovation and operational efficiencies.

      In support of this, we have announced a consolidation of operations at our
      Rockford facilities. Our commitment to the Testor brand has never been
      stronger. By implementing these changes, and the ability to leverage all
      of Rust-Oleum s world class services, we are more strongly poised to take
      our business to the next level through product and merchandising
      innovations, and increased customer understanding.

      If you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.

      We appreciate your business!!

      Sincerely,
      Beth

      The Testor Corporation
      Consumer Affairs Department
      1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
      M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST"




      --
      Regards,
      Walter

      Group: vintageHO Message: 21169 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
      Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
      I sent them an email, asking for verification.
      Walter


      On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:
       

      This must be an April's fool joke-late. 

      Brad Smith

      Sent from Brad's iPod


      Group: vintageHO Message: 21170 From: John Hagen Date: 5/21/2013
      Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
      Attachments :

        It’s not April one and this is no joke. Just another case of them who want it all now (money-wise) dumping on those who have their customers for years. This has been coming ever since Floquil became a part of Testors.

         

        Frankly it looks to me that RPM (testers parent company) is getting Testors looking attractive for purchase.

         

        John Hagen

         

        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II
        Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:49 AM
        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz paints being discontinued

         

         

        I sent them an email, asking for verification.

        Walter

         

        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:

         

        This must be an April's fool joke-late. 

         

        Brad Smith

        Sent from Brad's iPod

         

         

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21171 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        I asked if it was true, because I was challenged by a member of one of these groups. This is the response from Testors, just received. In 2 words, "It's true!" Not an April Fools' Day joke.

        Walter

        ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        From: CustomerService CustomerService <CustomerService@...>
        Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:30 PM
        Subject: Re: Notice of discontinuation
        To: bayerw2@...


        Hello Walter,

        Thank you for your email.
        Yes this is true. Decisions such as these are never easy. Trends in model railroading have changed over time. Creating product for weathering and scenery has been more of the focus as train cars have moved to pre-decorated. The good news is that the same great products for weathering and scenery can be found in Testor's CreateFX line that is available now. Please check your local hobby shop or www.testors.com ( http://www.testors.com/ ) for information regarding this product line.

        We appreciate your passion for our business. We look forward to introducing you to this exciting new product line that is great for today's modeler as well as future generations.



        The Testor Corporation
        1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
        M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST

        Place your online order at:
        www.testors.com

        Keep up with all of the Testor's activities by liking us on Facebook and following us on Pinterest?

        http://pinterest.com/testorcorp/

        Have you fanned us on facebook yet?

        http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Testors/186766180261


        >>> <bayerw2@...> 5/21/2013 11:47 AM >>>
        Is this message, below, genuine and true?


        The below is a direct quote and response from Testors Consumer
        Affairs
        Department...

        \"Dear Mr. ________

        There are many changes taking place at The Testor Corporation. For
        over 80
        years, we have provided premium paints and finishing systems to the
        craft
        and hobby industry. Recently we announced that we are transforming
        our
        business in order to more effectively address the changing needs of
        our
        consumers and their interests.

        We ve made the decision to exit the following businesses within the
        Testor
        Brand family - Pactra , Floquil , PollyScale , and ColorArtz .
        This will enable The Testor Corporation to return to our foundation
        of
        success providing premium, innovative product that inspires
        creativity.
        We will continue to accept orders and ship product for a limited time
        based
        on available quantities.

        Going forward, the following brands will be critical to our success
        and
        development - Testor , Model Master , and Aztek. These brands will be
        infused with marketing support, innovation and operational
        efficiencies.

        In support of this, we have announced a consolidation of operations at
        our
        Rockford facilities. Our commitment to the Testor brand has never
        been
        stronger. By implementing these changes, and the ability to leverage
        all
        of Rust-Oleum s world class services, we are more strongly poised to
        take
        our business to the next level through product and merchandising
        innovations, and increased customer understanding.

        If you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.

        We appreciate your business!!

        Sincerely,
        Beth

        The Testor Corporation
        Consumer Affairs Department
        1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
        M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST\"

        Thank you,
        Walter




        --
        Regards,
        Walter
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21172 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz p
        I wish it was, but it appears not.

        Don



        On 5/21/2013 11:05 AM, Brad Smith wrote:
        This must be an April's fool joke-late. 

        Brad Smith

        Sent from Brad's iPod

        On May 21, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

         
        With apologies to Rich, I thought this important enough to forward to several more Model RR communities.

        ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        From: Rich Zellich <rich@...>
        Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:35 AM
        Subject: [traintools] FWD: Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra, ColorArtz paints being discontinued
        To: traintools@yahoogroups.com


         

        ----- Forwarded Message -----
        Subject: Floquil and Polly scale to cease production...

        Hello to all...

        It appears that we will be loosing Floquil, Polly Scale, Pactra and
        ColorArtz paints and that they will no longer be produced. It doesn't look
        as if anyone is going to pick up the brands either from what was being
        stated on the other list. My hobby painting and custom painting business is
        going to take a hit. Looks like I will be buying up big whilst they are
        still around......

        The below is a direct quote and response from Testors Consumer Affairs
        Department...

        "Dear Mr. ________

        There are many changes taking place at The Testor Corporation. For over 80
        years, we have provided premium paints and finishing systems to the craft
        and hobby industry. Recently we announced that we are transforming our
        business in order to more effectively address the changing needs of our
        consumers and their interests.

        We ve made the decision to exit the following businesses within the Testor
        Brand family - Pactra , Floquil , PollyScale , and ColorArtz .
        This will enable The Testor Corporation to return to our foundation of
        success providing premium, innovative product that inspires creativity.
        We will continue to accept orders and ship product for a limited time based
        on available quantities.

        Going forward, the following brands will be critical to our success and
        development - Testor , Model Master , and Aztek. These brands will be
        infused with marketing support, innovation and operational efficiencies.

        In support of this, we have announced a consolidation of operations at our
        Rockford facilities. Our commitment to the Testor brand has never been
        stronger. By implementing these changes, and the ability to leverage all
        of Rust-Oleum s world class services, we are more strongly poised to take
        our business to the next level through product and merchandising
        innovations, and increased customer understanding.

        If you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.

        We appreciate your business!!

        Sincerely,
        Beth

        The Testor Corporation
        Consumer Affairs Department
        1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
        M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST"




        --
        Regards,
        Walter


        -- 
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21173 From: Rick Jones Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        On 5/21/2013 2:24 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:
        >
        >
        > I asked if it was true, because I was challenged by a member of one of
        > these groups. This is the response from Testors, just received. In 2
        > words, "It's true!" Not an April Fools' Day joke.
        >
        > Walter
        >
        > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        > From: *CustomerService CustomerService* <CustomerService@...
        > <mailto:CustomerService@...>>
        > Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:30 PM
        > Subject: Re: Notice of discontinuation
        > To: bayerw2@... <mailto:bayerw2@...>
        >
        >
        > Hello Walter,
        >
        > Thank you for your email.
        > Yes this is true. Decisions such as these are never easy. Trends in
        > model railroading have changed over time. Creating product for
        > weathering and scenery has been more of the focus as train cars have
        > moved to pre-decorated. The good news is that the same great products
        > for weathering and scenery can be found in Testor's CreateFX line that
        > is available now. Please check your local hobby shop or www.testors.com
        > <http://www.testors.com> ( http://www.testors.com/ ) for information
        > regarding this product line.

        Another casualty of ready-to-run models.

        --

        Rick Jones

        Time may be a great healer, but it's a lousy beautician.
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21174 From: JP Barger Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: [STMFC] Unidentified HO reefer model

        I recently have been cleaning out a bunch of trays of reefer models I have
        never gotten around to classifying, storing or repairing. There were some
        gems like Findex in there, but one car has me mystified. It looks from the
        style of painting and printing like a Binkley. But it doesn't check out on
        my complete(?) Binkley list. The car is a light orange painted one, with
        reporting marks of W.F.E.X. 67729 on the left side, and a GN circle with a
        goat on the right. There are no car numbers on the ends; they might possibly
        have been painted over. Just this last week, in visiting a model RR friend,
        I discovered that in the last year, he has collected four exact matches for
        the car, same car number, paint color etc. (One of them might have Red Ball
        hatch platforms and hatches). So that makes five I know about. The roof
        looks like a Silver Streak wooden component, with 9 metal roof ribs (I
        think 9 ribs is on their car plan in the kit) and four diecast hatch
        platforms and hatches, probably Silver Streak. The general appearance of
        this car is Silver Streak, which makes me suspicious that it might be a late
        Walthers version, or an even later Ye Old Huff & Puff version as Silver
        Streak forms an important part of late, more recent YOH&P production. But,
        unlike many or most YOH&P cars with wide boards on the car sides, this car
        has narrow boards with carefully executed board grooves, a piece of model
        perfection. The wooden sides of the car are 3 ply plywood, like Silver
        Streak and with the same thickness also.

        Can anyone tell us the manufacturer of this model and the approximate year
        of production, or report the ownership of one? A car like this in hand might
        have come with the original box, which would also identify it.

        Any or all help you may provide will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks in
        advance. JP Barger

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21175 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unidentified HO reefer model
        On 5/21/2013 3:26 PM, JP Barger wrote:

        I recently have been cleaning out a bunch of trays of reefer models I have
        never gotten around to classifying, storing or repairing. There were some
        gems like Findex in there, but one car has me mystified. It looks from the
        style of painting and printing like a Binkley. But it doesn't check out on
        my complete(?) Binkley list. The car is a light orange painted one, with
        reporting marks of W.F.E.X. 67729 on the left side, and a GN circle with a
        goat on the right. There are no car numbers on the ends; they might possibly
        have been painted over. Just this last week, in visiting a model RR friend,
        I discovered that in the last year, he has collected four exact matches for
        the car, same car number, paint color etc. (One of them might have Red Ball
        hatch platforms and hatches). So that makes five I know about. The roof
        looks like a Silver Streak wooden component, with 9 metal roof ribs (I
        think 9 ribs is on their car plan in the kit) and four diecast hatch
        platforms and hatches, probably Silver Streak. The general appearance of
        this car is Silver Streak, which makes me suspicious that it might be a late
        Walthers version, or an even later Ye Old Huff & Puff version as Silver
        Streak forms an important part of late, more recent YOH&P production. But,
        unlike many or most YOH&P cars with wide boards on the car sides, this car
        has narrow boards with carefully executed board grooves, a piece of model
        perfection. The wooden sides of the car are 3 ply plywood, like Silver
        Streak and with the same thickness also.

        Can anyone tell us the manufacturer of this model and the approximate year
        of production, or report the ownership of one? A car like this in hand might
        have come with the original box, which would also identify it.

        Any or all help you may provide will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks in
        advance. JP Barger

        Can you post a picture?

        Thanks

        Don
        -- 
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21176 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        On 5/21/2013 5:28 PM, Rick Jones wrote:
        > On 5/21/2013 2:24 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:
        >>
        >> I asked if it was true, because I was challenged by a member of one of
        >> these groups. This is the response from Testors, just received. In 2
        >> words, "It's true!" Not an April Fools' Day joke.
        >>
        >> Walter
        >>
        >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        >> From: *CustomerService CustomerService* <CustomerService@...
        >> <mailto:CustomerService@...>>
        >> Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:30 PM
        >> Subject: Re: Notice of discontinuation
        >> To: bayerw2@... <mailto:bayerw2@...>
        >>
        >>
        >> Hello Walter,
        >>
        >> Thank you for your email.
        >> Yes this is true. Decisions such as these are never easy. Trends in
        >> model railroading have changed over time. Creating product for
        >> weathering and scenery has been more of the focus as train cars have
        >> moved to pre-decorated. The good news is that the same great products
        >> for weathering and scenery can be found in Testor's CreateFX line that
        >> is available now. Please check your local hobby shop or www.testors.com
        >> <http://www.testors.com> ( http://www.testors.com/ ) for information
        >> regarding this product line.
        > Another casualty of ready-to-run models.
        >
        We don't need scenery and weathering colors, we have Ceramcote for under
        a buck a bottle.

        What we need are good BRUSHABLE railroad colors.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21177 From: John Hutnick Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Re: 4-4-0
        For resistance soldering, I use a handpiece with a large diameter carbon probe from American Beauty.  Typically a 200 watt power unit.  I always find it takes a higher power to get decent results from something like this.  The benefit of carbon is that it does not make surface marks.
         
        A small acetylene flame does not discolor brass as much as you might expect if applied to the top of a steam loco dome like this.  I do a lot of clean up with a fiberglass brush, and buffing with a jeweler's stainless wire brush as noted from Rio Grande supply.  These wire brushes do not seem as abrasive as many.  Everything that you see on the Mantua 4-4-0 is polished this way.
         
        A rosin base soldering flux does not discolor as much as zinc chloride or similar.  I get my best results with only very small solder cuttings placed right at your solder joint.  Heat enough to sizzle the flux and then just keep heating until you get a shiny solder melt.  I have also had good results with British Powerflow paste flux.
        For cleaning of big jobs such as assembling brass kits, I typically finish with a dip in a solution of ferric chloride and chromic acid.  It attacks all of the pink discoloration that occurs after a lot of torching.  This stuff gives a greasy brown coating on the metal and attacks brass quickly.  A final wash in Dupont Metal Conditioner(phosphoric) gives a frosty brightness to brass - looks like U. S. Hobbies.  This was not done on the Mantua.
         
        Much of what I know about soldering was from my friend Joe Borick.  Lee Snover showed me the benefits of carbon rod soldering and brush polishing.  Lee is still in business as Leetown Models.  A lot of soldering is simply practicing with all sorts of methods until you find what works.
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21178 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 5/21/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        AMEN!
        Walter


        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

        We don't need scenery and weathering colors, we have Ceramcote for under
        a buck a bottle.

        What we need are good BRUSHABLE railroad colors.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/


        Group: vintageHO Message: 21179 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/22/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        A characteristic of all paints I know is that they give superior results if you airbrush them.

        Brush painting is best done to your garage walls and for effects on your models. I've seen a lot of brush painted models and I can't recall ever seeing one that looks great except for skillfully painted real wood models. All have had a visible degree of glopped-on to the typical brush painted model.

        While an air brushed model is misted on until the paint begins to color well without hiding detail.

        It seems that very thin coats go on with an airbrush contrasted to a thick layer brushed on.

        If anyone has mastered the brush for the prime painting of a model, he's one rare modeler and vastly out numbered by hoards of modelers that are still in training when it comes to painting their models.


        Mike Bauers
        Sent from my iPhone


        On May 21, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

        AMEN!
        Walter


        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

        We don't need scenery and weathering colors, we have Ceramcote for under
        a buck a bottle.

        What we need are good BRUSHABLE railroad colors.


        Group: vintageHO Message: 21180 From: larry Smith Date: 5/22/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        What about Scalecoat?

        Larry Smith

        On 5/21/2013 10:06 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:
         
        AMEN!
        Walter


        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

        We don't need scenery and weathering colors, we have Ceramcote for under
        a buck a bottle.

        What we need are good BRUSHABLE railroad colors.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann


        Group: vintageHO Message: 21181 From: louis niederlander Date: 5/22/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        Talked to Gary at Weaver yesterday;  still available.
         
        Louis N
         

        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        From: wooddale@...
        Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:03:15 -0500
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fwd: Notice of discontinuation



        What about Scalecoat?

        Larry Smith

        On 5/21/2013 10:06 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:
         
        AMEN!
        Walter


        On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

        We don't need scenery and weathering colors, we have Ceramcote for under
        a buck a bottle.

        What we need are good BRUSHABLE railroad colors.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann




        Group: vintageHO Message: 21182 From: Rick Jones Date: 5/22/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        On 5/22/2013 9:03 AM, larry Smith wrote:
        >
        >
        > What about Scalecoat?

        Apparently not available here in Texas according to the LMRRS.
        Something about Texas requesting a formulation of what's in it and
        Scalecoat not complying.

        --

        Rick Jones

        Chocolate - It's not just for breakfast any more.
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21183 From: Brad Smith Date: 5/22/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        Mail order it from Walthers or another dealer. 

        Brad Smith

        Sent from Brad's iPod

        On May 22, 2013, at 8:24 PM, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

         

        On 5/22/2013 9:03 AM, larry Smith wrote:
        >
        >
        > What about Scalecoat?

        Apparently not available here in Texas according to the LMRRS.
        Something about Texas requesting a formulation of what's in it and
        Scalecoat not complying.

        --

        Rick Jones

        Chocolate - It's not just for breakfast any more.

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21184 From: Mike Bauers Date: 5/26/2013
        Subject: Oddball coal modeling tip
        I just read this in a very prototype oriented list and it's too good not to pass on to the general public.

        "(As an interesting "Believe it or not," in my effort to find something for a mold master that would equal the size of HO bituminous coal chunks the perfect solution turned out to be of all things Grape-Nuts cereal kernels!)"

        It's right up there with the ancient modeling tip of using [painted] whole cloves for scale cabbage heads planted in the fields

        Best to ya...
        Mike Bauers
        Milwaukee, Wi, USA



        Group: vintageHO Message: 21185 From: Van B. Campbell Date: 5/31/2013
        Subject: Athearn Hi-F Gear Reduction Drive
        I've stumbled upon a set of Athearn F7s that has the A unit powered by an interesting drive system. It utilizes the Hi-F frame and trucks with some modifications. The drive unit is a gear reduction system of sorts. I've seen these on eBay from time to time and have always been curious about these unique units. Who marketed these drives and are the 'o' ring type of belts found on my example the intended material for these? Does anybody have another one of these drives they'd be willing to part with? 


        Van B. Campbell
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21186 From: roger_aultman Date: 5/31/2013
        Subject: Re: Athearn Hi-F Gear Reduction Drive
        --
        Known as Pittman conversions they were a improvement over the original Athearn band drives but nowhere as good as the first gear drives by Athearn that were diecast and assembled with 2-56 machine screws. Roger Aultman




        -- "Van B. Campbell" <tehachapikid@...> wrote:

        =============
        I've stumbled upon a set of Athearn F7s that has the A unit powered by an interesting drive system. It utilizes the Hi-F frame and trucks with some modifications. The drive unit is a gear reduction system of sorts. I've seen these on eBay from time to time and have always been curious about these unique units. Who marketed these drives and are the 'o' ring type of belts found on my example the intended material for these? Does anybody have another one of these drives they'd be willing to part with?

        Van B. Campbell
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21187 From: prandn Date: 6/1/2013
        Subject: <<< JAM Breakfast 20130702 - Come Join Us >>>
        Below is a free to use, stock e-mail posting for your chat groups, forums, club newsletters, fellow railroaders, etc, etc.
        You can simple copy and paste it. Go ahead and overwrite the original author's name at the bottom of this post if that will help the cause!

        Feel free to edit the note below to suit your situation, or just ignore it altogether and write your own post your own way.
        Please do your part to help us make the John Allen Memorial Breakfast a roaring success worldwide! Send it out everywhere you know your fellow railroaders will see it.
        Let's get her done!
        ****************************************************************************************************

        MARK JOHN ALLEN'S CENTENNIAL WITH US:
        July 2nd, 2013 marks one hundred years since the birth of John Allen, the
        creator of the world-famous Gorre and Daphetid Railroad. Here's a simple way
        that you, along with your fellow model railroaders all around the world, should
        mark this occasion:
        The Official John Allen Memorial Breakfast:
        On the morning of July 2nd, Model Railroaders everywhere are asked to salute John Allen, the Wizard of Monterey.
        Make a few flapjacks (pancakes) with strawberry JAM and pour yourself coffee or tea... Raise your mug in a salute.
        If you can't do flapjacks, then toast or another substitute will do just as
        well. JAM is the essential thing!
        Why jam? JAM = John Allen Memorial. Strawberry jam would be most appropriate
        as that is the main field crop in the Monterey/Carmel area, where John lived.
        While you're at it, consider spending at least a few minutes that day taking
        another look at those fabulous photos John made of his amazing model railroad!
        If you can, get together with other railroaders to mark this occasion!

        - John Le Forestier, Toronto, for the John Allen Memorial Project.

        Join the worldwide 100th Birthday John Allen Memorial(JAM)Breakfast on July 2 2013! It's flapjacks with strawberry jam and tea or coffee, but substitutes are ok of course. Enjoy breakfast at your home or be part of a group. Take a little time on this special day to remember John, model railroading's Wizard of Monterey, creator of the astonishing Gorre and Daphetid Railroad, and take another look at some of the fabulous photographs and innovations he introduced to our great hobby. Help spread the word, not just the jam! Get downloadable files here:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GandD/files/John%20Allen%20Memorial%20Breakfast/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21188 From: David Date: 6/2/2013
        Subject: Re: Fwd: Notice of discontinuation
        > By implementing these changes, and the ability to leverage
        > all of Rust-Oleum s world class services,

        Rust-Oleum, thy Enamel, is a jealous Enamel.
        Thou shalt have no other pigments before nor none beside It.
        Did It not assimilate the evil Krylon, which had seduced thee, and transform it even unto Enamel, to deliver thee from the curse of smooth-spraying, instant-drying lacquer?
        Question not Its decisions. Hinder not Its leverage.
        That which cannot be achieved with with spray-can Enamel is unworthy of achievement.
        All others shall be assimilated and terminated.
        Embrace the Clog. 


        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II wrote:
        >
        > I asked if it was true, because I was challenged by a member of one of
        > these groups. This is the response from Testors, just received. In 2 words,
        > "It's true!" Not an April Fools' Day joke.
        >
        > Walter
        >
        > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        > From: CustomerService CustomerService CustomerService@...
        > Date: Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:30 PM
        > Subject: Re: Notice of discontinuation
        > To: bayerw2@...
        >
        >
        > Hello Walter,
        >
        > Thank you for your email.
        > Yes this is true. Decisions such as these are never easy. Trends in model
        > railroading have changed over time. Creating product for weathering and
        > scenery has been more of the focus as train cars have moved to
        > pre-decorated. The good news is that the same great products for weathering
        > and scenery can be found in Testor's CreateFX line that is available now.
        > Please check your local hobby shop or www.testors.com (
        > http://www.testors.com/ ) for information regarding this product line.
        >
        > We appreciate your passion for our business. We look forward to introducing
        > you to this exciting new product line that is great for today's modeler as
        > well as future generations.
        >
        >
        >
        > The Testor Corporation
        > 1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
        > M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST
        >
        > Place your online order at:
        > www.testors.com
        >
        > Keep up with all of the Testor's activities by liking us on Facebook and
        > following us on Pinterest?
        >
        > http://pinterest.com/testorcorp/
        >
        > Have you fanned us on facebook yet?
        >
        > http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Testors/186766180261
        >
        >
        > >>> bayerw2@... 5/21/2013 11:47 AM >>>
        > Is this message, below, genuine and true?
        >
        >
        > The below is a direct quote and response from Testors Consumer
        > Affairs
        > Department...
        >
        > \"Dear Mr. ________
        >
        > There are many changes taking place at The Testor Corporation. For
        > over 80
        > years, we have provided premium paints and finishing systems to the
        > craft
        > and hobby industry. Recently we announced that we are transforming
        > our
        > business in order to more effectively address the changing needs of
        > our
        > consumers and their interests.
        >
        > We ve made the decision to exit the following businesses within the
        > Testor
        > Brand family - Pactra , Floquil , PollyScale , and ColorArtz .
        > This will enable The Testor Corporation to return to our foundation
        > of
        > success providing premium, innovative product that inspires
        > creativity.
        > We will continue to accept orders and ship product for a limited time
        > based
        > on available quantities.
        >
        > Going forward, the following brands will be critical to our success
        > and
        > development - Testor , Model Master , and Aztek. These brands will be
        > infused with marketing support, innovation and operational
        > efficiencies.
        >
        > In support of this, we have announced a consolidation of operations at
        > our
        > Rockford facilities. Our commitment to the Testor brand has never
        > been
        > stronger. By implementing these changes, and the ability to leverage
        > all
        > of Rust-Oleum s world class services, we are more strongly poised to
        > take
        > our business to the next level through product and merchandising
        > innovations, and increased customer understanding.
        >
        > If you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.
        >
        > We appreciate your business!!
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Beth
        >
        > The Testor Corporation
        > Consumer Affairs Department
        > 1-800-837-8677 (1-800-testors)
        > M-F 8:00 A.M - 4:00 PM CST\"
        >
        > Thank you,
        > Walter
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Regards,
        > Walter
        >
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21189 From: Alan Date: 6/6/2013
        Subject: kemtron log cars?
        I am getting 6 unboxed skeleton log car kits,these have brass bunks,brake cylinders and other brass pieces with plastic center sills.The party I'm getting these parts from thinks they are kemtron but due to his age and the cancer he is not quite sure of this,I saw some reference to PSC having made a plastic and brass kit,can anyone shed some light on possible manufacturer?
        Thanks,Alan
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21190 From: ablecynic Date: 6/7/2013
        Subject: Re: kemtron log cars?
        Alan,

        Yes, Kemtron made them. I have four of them still unbuilt in the original box. Precision released them also under their name but they were nearly identical to the Kemtron version.

        Matt Coleman

        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <albyrno@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am getting 6 unboxed skeleton log car kits,these have brass bunks,brake cylinders and other brass pieces with plastic center sills.The party I'm getting these parts from thinks they are kemtron but due to his age and the cancer he is not quite sure of this,I saw some reference to PSC having made a plastic and brass kit,can anyone shed some light on possible manufacturer?
        > Thanks,Alan
        >
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21191 From: Rick Jones Date: 6/7/2013
        Subject: Photos: Golden Age Of Train Travel
        http://www.weather.com/travel/glory-days-train-travel-photos-20130604

        This is something that the Weather Channel put up a few days ago.
        Over 200 photos of bygone days to peruse. Many of the shots are of
        foreign trains.

        --

        Rick Jones

        "Some things need and deserve to be lampooned and ridiculed, religion
        and politics among them. All the more so if they can't take a joke."
        -Cary Chilson
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21192 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/11/2013
        Subject: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen be
        Hi All!

        OK.. Had to  make an offer and buy it from the guy!

        I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model Railroader or MRC. 

        It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!

        Any thoughts or memories anyone?
         
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
          @@attachment@@
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21193 From: shawmut_fan Date: 6/11/2013
        Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
        I vaguely remember seeing something like this in an old Model Railroader, early 50's.  It was in Trackside photos and the modeller had sent in a photo of the prototype shop switcher (SP maybe?) with his photo of the model.  Strikes me that either the stack would have to have been made out of some super metal or that the crane had a lifting capacity in the low single digits, though.   
         
        John B. Allyn


        From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...>
        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 7:46:57 AM
        Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before! [3 Attachments]

         
        [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]

        Hi All!

        OK.. Had to  make an offer and buy it from the guy!

        I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model Railroader or MRC. 

        It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!

        Any thoughts or memories anyone?
         
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21194 From: trainliker Date: 6/11/2013
        Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
        Actually, not so fanciful.  AT&SF had a shop switcher with a crane mounted exactly like that.  A brass model was made of it.
         
         
        The engine photos don't have the crane mounted but you can see it in a bag in one of the photos.  It mounted with the smokestack going through it.
         
        Chuck Kinzer
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:46 AM
        Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before! [3 Attachments]

         

        Hi All!

        OK.. Had to  make an offer and buy it from the guy!

        I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model Railroader or MRC. 

        It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!

        Any thoughts or memories anyone?
         
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21195 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/11/2013
        Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
        I was very tempted by that eBay offer as well.

        Now that I've seen the pics of the SantaFe brass model I think the only missing element on your model is the oversized circular base ring the crane sits on, at the base of the smokestack. Some rework of standard hardware washers or plastic sheet stock would build up nicely for that part.

        Maybe I'll join you and build up a similar model?

        It's a great mod for one of those small side tank switchers.

        Thanks to your pics I now have a good side view of a crane to use for it.

        By coincidence I have a pair of the old Kemtron modern slab pilots coming to me. Some may recall an old article in MR where those were used as some of the parts to modernize a Tyco/Mantua sidetank switcher.

        I'm thinking a modernized crane mounted side tank switcher would be fun to build.

        I think the conversion parts for the base, stack, and crane would make a nice customizing kit, perhaps done as a 3d printed kit?

        The crane-steam locomotive certainly is quite the vintage model. The Brits were very big on these for sea dock and loco shop service.

        Please treasure your eBay buy.

        Mike Bauers
        Sent from my iPhone


        On Jun 11, 2013, at 7:46 AM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

        Hi All!

        OK.. Had to  make an offer and buy it from the guy!

        I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model Railroader or MRC. 

        It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!

        Any thoughts or memories anyone?
         
        Sean


        Group: vintageHO Message: 21196 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/11/2013
        Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
        Hi Mike,

        Treasure it I will. I was not planning on re-selling it. I think it is pretty cool. I made him a $14 offer so after shipping it was just under $21. I think that is more than a fair price. I am just certain I have seen one like it before. I found the previous yardbirdtrains yahoo Jan 2011 "Plausibility" topic concerning a Rivarossi 0-6-0 conversion, but I'd swear the one I saw was from a magazine print with a Mantua/Tyco switcher used as a base.  Looked just like this. Someone showed it and I can not find it anywhere!

        I did find a scan on the yardbirdstrains forum:

         
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

        From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>
        To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:46 AM
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before!

         
        I was very tempted by that eBay offer as well.

        Now that I've seen the pics of the SantaFe brass model I think the only missing element on your model is the oversized circular base ring the crane sits on, at the base of the smokestack. Some rework of standard hardware washers or plastic sheet stock would build up nicely for that part.

        Maybe I'll join you and build up a similar model?

        It's a great mod for one of those small side tank switchers.

        Thanks to your pics I now have a good side view of a crane to use for it.

        By coincidence I have a pair of the old Kemtron modern slab pilots coming to me. Some may recall an old article in MR where those were used as some of the parts to modernize a Tyco/Mantua sidetank switcher.

        I'm thinking a modernized crane mounted side tank switcher would be fun to build.

        I think the conversion parts for the base, stack, and crane would make a nice customizing kit, perhaps done as a 3d printed kit?

        The crane-steam locomotive certainly is quite the vintage model. The Brits were very big on these for sea dock and loco shop service.

        Please treasure your eBay buy.

        Mike Bauers
        Sent from my iPhone


        On Jun 11, 2013, at 7:46 AM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

        Hi All!

        OK.. Had to  make an offer and buy it from the guy!

        I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model Railroader or MRC. 

        It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!

        Any thoughts or memories anyone?
         
        Sean




        Group: vintageHO Message: 21197 From: bcpryor Date: 6/13/2013
        Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

        The Brits were very big on these for sea dock and loco shop service.
        >


        See the second and third photos from the bottom on this page:

        http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/chimney/chimney.htm

        Bruce
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21198 From: shawmut_fan Date: 6/13/2013
        Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
        Looks as if the cranes are mounted on u-shaped saddles which are attached directly to the engine frame.  So the stack isn't bearing any of the load.

        John B. Allyn
        3602 Hoods Hill Road
        Nashville TN 37215
        615-298-2873 (H)
        615-973-4280 (C)



        From: "bcpryor" <bcpryor@...>
        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 11:49:21 AM
        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before!

         



        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

        The Brits were very big on these for sea dock and loco shop service.
        >

        See the second and third photos from the bottom on this page:

        http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/chimney/chimney.htm

        Bruce

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21199 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/13/2013
        Subject: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
        Hi All!

        I wanted t share a link of a little video I shot on Tuesday. This is the first time there has been a running engine in my 1969 fastback Mustang since I purchased it as a bare shell in 1997. If I were to guess, I would say the car has not been on the road in over 20 years!! The original '69 351 Windsor really sounds great! I can not wait to get in it and actually drive it!!! 

         
        Today, the fuel pump was replaced and now it is running constant and unassisted on it's own! (other than initially manually manipulating the choke.)

        Later!
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21200 From: Chrisb_acw_rr Date: 6/13/2013
        Subject: Re: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
        Congratulations!!!!!

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

         

        Hi All!

        I wanted t share a link of a little video I shot on Tuesday. This is the first time there has been a running engine in my 1969 fastback Mustang since I purchased it as a bare shell in 1997. If I were to guess, I would say the car has not been on the road in over 20 years!! The original '69 351 Windsor really sounds great! I can not wait to get in it and actually drive it!!! 

         
        Today, the fuel pump was replaced and now it is running constant and unassisted on it's own! (other than initially manually manipulating the choke.)

        Later!
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21201 From: tom leen Date: 6/13/2013
        Subject: Re: off topic but wanted to share anyway...
        Excellent video, Sean.  Sounds & looks great. 
        Tom

        --- On Thu, 6/13/13, Chrisb_acw_rr <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote:

        From: Chrisb_acw_rr <chrisb_acw_rr@...>
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] off topic but wanted to share anyway...
        To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, June 13, 2013, 8:36 PM

         
        Congratulations!!!!!

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

         
        Hi All!

        I wanted t share a link of a little video I shot on Tuesday. This is the first time there has been a running engine in my 1969 fastback Mustang since I purchased it as a bare shell in 1997. If I were to guess, I would say the car has not been on the road in over 20 years!! The original '69 351 Windsor really sounds great! I can not wait to get in it and actually drive it!!! 

         
        Today, the fuel pump was replaced and now it is running constant and unassisted on it's own! (other than initially manually manipulating the choke.)

        Later!
        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21202 From: Richard Carbo Date: 6/14/2013
        Subject: Re: off topic but wanted to share anyway...

        Cool, I will look forward to pictures of the whole car too. Richard

         

        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor
        Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 3:55 PM
        To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [vintageHO] off topic but wanted to share anyway...

         

         

        Hi All!

         

        I wanted t share a link of a little video I shot on Tuesday. This is the first time there has been a running engine in my 1969 fastback Mustang since I purchased it as a bare shell in 1997. If I were to guess, I would say the car has not been on the road in over 20 years!! The original '69 351 Windsor really sounds great! I can not wait to get in it and actually drive it!!! 

         

         

        Today, the fuel pump was replaced and now it is running constant and unassisted on it's own! (other than initially manually manipulating the choke.)

         

        Later!

        Sean

        "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21203 From: Larry Date: 6/14/2013
        Subject: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        For those concerned over Testor's decision to end manufacture of the Floquil line of paints I am forwarding this posting from the CN&W Railroad E-Mail Group;

        Microscale Industries put together a cross reference chart to identify substitute paint colors from alternate paint manufacturers to Testors' Floquil line. Here is the link:

        http://www.microscale.com/ResourceCntr_Floquil.html

        Bob Chaparro
        Moderator
        Model Railroads of Southern California
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California/


        Group: vintageHO Message: 21204 From: Fred Krause Date: 6/14/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        For those who might be interested my store carries a full line of Floquil & Polly Scale Railroad color paints in stock at structuresandtrainsbyfred.com 


        From: Larry <mrncartoon@...>
        To: "vintageho@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; "hotractionmodeling@yahoogroups.com" <hotractionmodeling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:26 PM
        Subject: [vintageHO] Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart

         
        For those concerned over Testor's decision to end manufacture of the Floquil line of paints I am forwarding this posting from the CN&W Railroad E-Mail Group;

        Microscale Industries put together a cross reference chart to identify substitute paint colors from alternate paint manufacturers to Testors' Floquil line. Here is the link:

        http://www.microscale.com/ResourceCntr_Floquil.html

        Bob Chaparro
        Moderator
        Model Railroads of Southern California
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California/




        Group: vintageHO Message: 21205 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/15/2013
        Subject: Athearn Train Set Boxes
        I'm looking for anyone who might have any old Yellow Box Era train set boxes and/or inserts that they would want to sell. I'm interested in all types, be it the "steam scene, "snow scene", "warbonnet scene", anything you might have. They must, however, be in reasonable shape. Partial(in-complete)sets would also be considered for purchase(condition of contents not an issue). Please contact me if you have anything that you think I might be interested in. Thanks, Van.
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21206 From: Jim Waterman Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        Thanks for this, but I don't see Floquil or PollyS. frankly, I think the Scalecoat is a superior paint anyway, sets up in a thinner coat and is the right sheen to add decals.

        Jim Waterman


        Sent from my iPad
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21207 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        On 6/16/2013 7:42 AM, Jim Waterman wrote:
        > Thanks for this, but I don't see Floquil or PollyS. frankly, I think the Scalecoat is a superior paint anyway, sets up in a thinner coat and is the right sheen to add decals.
        >
        > Jim Waterman
        >
        >
        The whole point was REPLACEMENTS for Floquil and Polly-S since Testors
        announced they're not making them any more.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21208 From: Bill Pittman Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Bill Pittman
        How do you do?

        Bill Pittman
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21209 From: 23weldon Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        Larry and Bob -- Many thanks for the link.  This is very valuable info. 
        And a tip of the hat with appropriate flourishes to the folks at Microscale for creating this chart.
         I pasted it into an MSWord document for future reference.  A little editing involving narrowing the column widths and moving the test at the beginning around a bit to narrow it resulted in a handy 4 page reference chart that printed out nicely.  How well the colors print out depends on your computer and printer.  But just having an approximation of the color on the page makes finding a specific line a lot easier.
        Has anyone had Microscale do custom waterslide decals?
        Ed Weldon
         

        Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart

        Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:26 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Larry" mrncartoon

         For those concerned over Testor's decision to end manufacture of the Floquil line of paints I am forwarding this posting from the CN&W Railroad E-Mail Group;

        Microscale Industries put together a cross reference chart to identify substitute paint colors from alternate paint manufacturers to Testors' Floquil line. Here is the link:

        http://www.microscale.com/ResourceCntr_Floquil.html

         

        Bob Chaparro, Moderator, Model Railroads of Southern California
         
         
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21210 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        Hi Don,

        I remember that you are a strong user of Floquil.

        What paint do you think will replace that for you?


        Mike Bauers
        Sent from my iPhone


        On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

        > On 6/16/2013 7:42 AM, Jim Waterman wrote:
        >> Thanks for this, but I don't see Floquil or PollyS. frankly, I think the Scalecoat is a superior paint anyway, sets up in a thinner coat and is the right sheen to add decals.
        >>
        >> Jim Waterman
        >>
        >>
        > The whole point was REPLACEMENTS for Floquil and Polly-S since Testors
        > announced they're not making them any more.
        >
        > Don
        >
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21211 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        On 6/16/2013 3:06 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
        > Hi Don,
        >
        > I remember that you are a strong user of Floquil.
        >
        > What paint do you think will replace that for you?
        >
        >
        > Mike Bauers
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        >
        > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
        >
        I don't know yet. Probably Scalecoat if I can find somebody who carries
        it, although I remember when I tried it years ago I didn't like it.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
        Group: vintageHO Message: 21212 From: John Hagen Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart

        Know what you mean Don. Bing a pretty much steadfast Floquil user myself I used to have a certain contempt for Scalecoat when I had to use it to paint Cal’s stuff. I just couldn’t get it to cover worth a darn on any of raised edges. Stuff just ran off coat after coat. I finally developed a method that worked okay, at least for me. I laid down a very light but wet first layer. I had to shot enough to just wet the surface and keep the air brush moving rather quickly so there paint did not get heavy enough to run off the edges. They I’d wait for the paint to get tacky then shoot a normal second coat. The tacky first layer would hold on to the surface and also the second, normal coat. By normal second coat I mean what was equivalent to my normal light first coat as I used with Floquil. Took some practice but after a while I got pretty good at it.

         

        John Hagen

         

        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
        Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:07 PM
        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart

         

         

        On 6/16/2013 3:06 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:

        > Hi Don,
        >
        > I remember that you are a strong user of Floquil.
        >
        > What paint do you think will replace that for you?
        >
        >
        > Mike Bauers
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        >
        > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
        >
        I don't know yet. Probably Scalecoat if I can find somebody who carries
        it, although I remember when I tried it years ago I didn't like it.

        Don

        --
        Don Dellmann
        don.dellmann@...
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
        Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21213 From: Mike Bauers Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart
        I like Scalecoat.

        Perhaps my technique was different?

        I would start by spraying some scrap cardboard to decide upon what distance and air pressure worked best for that time, with that air-brush.

        I didn't worry about having a strong coverage on one pass. My focus was putting the paint on slightly, ever so slightly wet, and that it wasn't running at all.

        Once I was zeroed on my distance and pressure, I'd make 2-4 passes to fill in the color. With only brief pauses between the passes.

        You quickly get a good feel for putting the paint down without having it run by putting too much on at a pass.

        My favorite airbrush for this is a Badger 150, an internal mix brush that lets you put down the lightest of mist coats if you wish to. It's the type of airbrush that many modelers bypass since it doesn't lay down heavy coats. I didn't mind that it took 2-3 passes normally to paint a model, those passes had great control.

        I don't know what pressure most are used to using with their model paints. I would use 12-15 lbs for both Floquil and Scalecoat paints with that airbrush.

        I think I did the same when I used my first airbrush, a heavy duty Thayer-Chandler.

        Don and John, what air pressures are you using with Floquil and your airbrushes????

        Mike Bauers
        Sent from my iPhone


        On Jun 16, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:

        Know what you mean Don. Bing a pretty much steadfast Floquil user myself I used to have a certain contempt for Scalecoat when I had to use it to paint Cal’s stuff. I just couldn’t get it to cover worth a darn on any of raised edges. Stuff just ran off coat after coat. I finally developed a method that worked okay, at least for me. I laid down a very light but wet first layer. I had to shot enough to just wet the surface and keep the air brush moving rather quickly so there paint did not get heavy enough to run off the edges. They I’d wait for the paint to get tacky then shoot a normal second coat. The tacky first layer would hold on to the surface and also the second, normal coat. By normal second coat I mean what was equivalent to my normal light first coat as I used with Floquil. Took some practice but after a while I got pretty good at it.

         

        John Hagen

         

        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
        Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:07 PM
        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart

         

         

        On 6/16/2013 3:06 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
        > Hi Don,
        >
        > I remember that you are a strong user of Floquil.
        >
        > What paint do you think will replace that for you?
        >
        >
        > Mike Bauers
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        >
        > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
        >
        I don't know yet. Probably Scalecoat if I can find somebody who carries
        it, although I remember when I tried it years ago I didn't like it.

        Don

        Group: vintageHO Message: 21215 From: Van B. Campbell Date: 6/16/2013
        Subject: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
        Attachments :
            Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!

            Yes, the models are newly built, but the idea is old! I think they were worth the wait! 
           
           
           



          Van B. Campbell
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21216 From: cwrailman Date: 6/18/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!

          I remember when the magazine articles came out on the IC Paducah Geep rebuilds.  At that time I lived in a suburb of Chicago near the IC Markham yards where I had actually worked in the summer of 68.  After the articles came out, guys were out there every Saturday taking pictures of the rebuilt units. Most were IC but some were done for other roads.  

          In the 1970's/1980's I was a member of the Lake Shore Model RR club on the South East side of Chicago which was in the heart of the blue collar, steel working, community.  Some of the members of that club were hacking and whacking on plastic Athearn shells to create models of those rebuild units.  After an article appeared in one of the hobby magazines showing how to model a Paducah rebuild, several of the local hobby shops brought in supplies of unpainted shells just for these projects.  While I did not have much interest in diesels, as there were not appropriate for my 1928 era, I did have an appreciation for the dedication these modelers showed in producing unique models with the major features properly modeled.  Who would know at that time that I would miss that sort of craftsmanship which has almost disappeared.  I still do not have an interest in diesels but I do appreciate seeing some of the first gen units especially when the owner has taken time to modify them. 

          Van, do you have any photo's of your projects you can share with us along with a brief explanation of each?

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 


          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Van B. Campbell" wrote:
          >
          > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > Yes, the models are newly built, but the idea is old! I think they were worth the wait!
          >
          > Van B. Campbell
          >

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21217 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/18/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
            Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!


          You mean like this? :)

           http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/

          Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell NW-2's made into a TR-2

            http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329

          Don 
          -- 
          Don Dellmann
          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21218 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/19/2013
          Subject: Flyer 5318 power
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21219 From: Sean Naylor Date: 6/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Hi Nick!

          If it has a smoke unit in the tender, then I would think not, but then again, I am far from an AF expert. I've just handled a few overt the years and have approx 8 tender smoke units stashed away for later modeling use. 

          They really look cool in the larger locos like the Bowser Challengers and such!
           
          Sean

          "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.



          Group: vintageHO Message: 21220 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 6/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Nick,

          Take a look at this site and compare what you have to the info on the site: "http://www.gilbertho.org/nf/rolling_stock_type.htm". 

          Can't help you on repowering, if that is your intention.

          Walter


          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21221 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have found the post war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          Dominic



          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.



          Group: vintageHO Message: 21222 From: bill Date: 6/20/2013
          Subject: New to the group
          I did not think of thier being a HO group for the vintage trains. Luckily i had joined the DC group and learned about this group. I have Revell, old Athearn, Marx, a few pieces of varney and yes some early 1960's Tyco.... I am still having problems trying to deceide if I should make one loop of track for scale trains and inner loop for the vintage trains I own.. Oh I also have several differnt Revell kits that eventually I will put together.....
          Bill
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21223 From: bill Date: 6/20/2013
          Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 help
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "topstokes" <topstokes@...> wrote:
          >
          > If anyone has a non operable engine, shell condition not important, I would be interested in purchasing it for parts. Contact me at my email address. Thanks.
          > Top Stokes
          >
          A while back on Bowser's website , they had Ahm or Rivarrosi parts. You may find what you are looking for there.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21224 From: oklacnw Date: 6/21/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          Do I remember the days when you had to bash/scratch to get the models you wanted? YES! When told I should have a prototype railroad I chose the C&NW which ran through my hometown. Big mistake- there were very few models of that railroad in 1950-70 era, so I had to cut/scrape/drill, you name it to get the engines I wanted. Rolling stock- I stripped paint from cars, repainted and decaled. But it was fun. I miss all the old details that were available then, maybe they weren't as good as those of today, but they served the purpose and were fun to use.
          Al E.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21225 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/22/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <oklacnw@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Do I remember the days when you had to bash/scratch to get the models you wanted? YES! When told I should have a prototype railroad I chose the C&NW which ran through my hometown. Big mistake- there were very few models of that railroad in 1950-70 era, so I had to cut/scrape/drill, you name it to get the engines I wanted. Rolling stock- I stripped paint from cars, repainted and decaled. But it was fun. I miss all the old details that were available then, maybe they weren't as good as those of today, but they served the purpose and were fun to use.
          > Al E.
          >
          Yes Al, all the new models are very nicely detailed right out of the box for the modeler that can afford such pieces! I wouldn't have been able to fathom paying today's prices back when I seriously got into modeling back in the early '80s! Sure, I've stepped up and bought a quite a few Genesis and Proto 1000/2000 models for my day-to-day operations, but the majority is mostly second-generation "Blue Box Athearn" re-painted and detailed as I find necessary. Funny thing, as far as bash/scratch goes, it almost makes me sick to think of all the vintage pieces that literally got destroyed in my youthful endeavors! I now realize that some were rare pieces that I now spend hours on eBay trying to scare up for the needs of my vintage collection! Ugh!
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21226 From: Dale F. Smith Date: 6/23/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318" locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser, such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith
          Gilbertho.org


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
           
          Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have found the post war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          Dominic



          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.




          Group: vintageHO Message: 21227 From: Rick Date: 6/24/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Hi Dale,

          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

           

          There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318" locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser, such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith
          Gilbertho.org


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
           
          Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have found the post war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          Dominic



          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.






          Group: vintageHO Message: 21228 From: Rick Date: 6/24/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.

          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.

          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  

          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

           

          Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

           

          There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318" locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser, such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith
          Gilbertho.org


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
           
          Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have found the post war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          Dominic



          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.








          Group: vintageHO Message: 21229 From: Dale Smith Date: 6/24/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Rick,

          I think Dom and I were both assuming you had a prewar Hudson, (200 or 112) because you specified the vertical motor, which was made as a prewar AC-universal motor.  Checking some of my references though, I find that the vertical motor was also made in a DC version that was used in the postwar 151 locomotive, which did have the smoke in tender unit.  What confused me at first was that the post war locomotives were all DC and would not run on AC.  When you said the smoke unit ran better on AC, I assume you were running it alone and not in conjunction with the main DC motor.

          I had always assumed that because the postwar smoke in tender units were DC powered, that the SIT motor was also DC.   It wouldn't necessarily have to be that way though and a universal wound field series motor would also work with the same DC current used on the motor powering the locomotive.  Since I don't have one of these locomotives myself, I took a look at the photos of the SIT unit shown in Gary Klein's reference work on Gilbert HO.   I am pretty sure that I can see a field and wiring between it and the brushes, so I am pretty sure that the main motor may have been DC, but the SIT motor may have been an AC motor.  This would have allowed Gilbert to use the same motor used in the S gauge SIT units (which was pretty small), if not the same SIT unit.

          Bottom line for you though is that you need to use DC power to run this locomotive, which I am pretty sure now is a postwar 151.   It is the only way to run the permanent magnet loco motor and will also run the universal SIT motor.  Why the SIT motor runs better on AC could be a difference in voltage.  An AF or Lionel AC transformer puts out either 15 or 18 volts, whereas an HO powerpack is limited to 12 volts.


          Dale Smith
          gilbertho.org
           



          On 6/24/2013 8:33 PM, Rick wrote:
           

          Dominic,


          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.

          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.

          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  

          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

           

          Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

           

          There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318" locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser, such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith
          Gilbertho.org


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
           
          Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have found the post war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          Dominic



          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.









          Group: vintageHO Message: 21230 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Dale,  Thanks again for all the information.  I had an idea of what I needed to do with this engine/tender and now you have reinforced that position.  Very much appreciated.


          On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Dale Smith wrote:

             Rick,

          I think Dom and I were         both assuming you had a prewar Hudson, ( 200 or 112) because you specified         the ve rtical motor,           which was made as a prewar AC-un iversal motor.  Checking some of my references             though, I find that the vertical motor was also made in a DC             version that was used in the postwar 151 locomotive , which did have the smoke in                 tender unit.                     What confused me at first was that the post war                   locomotives were all DC and would not run on AC.  When                   you said the smoke unit ran better on AC, I assume you                     were running it alone and not in conjunction with                     the main                       DC motor.

          I had                           always assumed that because the post war                             smoke in tender units were D C                               powered, that the SIT motor was also DC.                                 It wouldn't necessarily have to be that                               way though and a universal wound                                   field series motor would also work                                   with the same DC current used o n                                     the mo tor powering the                                       locomotive.  Since I                                         don't have one of these                                         locomotives myself, I took a                                         look at the photos of the SIT                                         unit shown in Gary Klein 's reference work on                                           Gilbert HO.   I am pretty                                             sure that I can see a field                                             and wiring between it and                                             the brushes ,                                               so I am pretty sure that                                               the main motor may have                                               been DC, but the SIT motor                                               may have been an AC                                               motor.  This would have                                               allowed Gilbert to use the                                               same motor used in the S                                               gauge SIT units (which was                                               pretty small), if not the                                               same SIT unit.

          Bottom                                                 line for you though is                                                 that you need to use DC                                                 power to run this                                                 locomotive, which I am                                                 pretty sure now is a postwar                                                   151 .   It is                                                 the only way to                                                   run the permanent                                                   magnet loco motor and                                                   will also run the                                                     universal SIT                                                     motor.  Why the SIT                                                     motor runs better on                                                     AC could be a                                                     difference in                                                     voltage.  An AF or                                                     Lionel AC                                                     transformer puts out                                                     either 15 or 1 8 volts,                                                       whereas an HO                                                         powerpack is                                                         limited to 12                                                         volts.


          Da le Smith
          gilbertho.org
           


          On 6/24/2013 8:33 PM, Rick wrote:

           
          Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just                 saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to                 run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs                 throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an                 E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and                 what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.                            But I just don't happen to have the time to                           concentrate on the little loco that I'd like                           to have.  Could I just ship you the whole                           engine and tender and let you figure out                           what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F.                               Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the                                     early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be                                     a bit confusing.   The first is that                                     the number on the cab is not the                                     model number as was the case with                                     most Gilbert Flyer products, but                                     rather a prototype number.   The                                     model numbers of these "5318"                                     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ),                                     112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit                                     was not an AC sequence reverser,                                     such as that used on post war Flyer                                     S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC                                     pulse reverse triggered unit, which                                     was also used on prewar O gauge                                     Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was                                     triggered in much the same way as a                                     Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC                                     pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor                                     that will run on DC as well as AC,                                     but I would think DC would play some                                     havoc with the reverse unit.  If I                                     were going to run such a locomotive                                     on DC, I would disconnect the                                     reverse unit and insert a small                                     bridge rectifier unit between the                                     current connections to the field and                                     the field itself to enable polarity                                     reversing. 

          Dale Smith


          On                                     6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN                                     wrote:
            Hello                                         Rick, pre war Hudsons could be                                         either. Most are found to be AC                                         and can be proven by looking for                                         the E unit in the tender. Some                                         pre war Hudsons will have a                                         permanent magnet attached to the                                         motor and no E unit. They will                                         run on DC. One more key thing to                                         look for and to help distinguish                                         the pre and post war engines,                                         would be the distance between                                         the names on the tender sides.                                         The "New York Central" spaced                                         closely like my example will be                                         most likely the pre war engine.                                         Look for the wide spacing, "New                                          York  Central" and you have                                         found the post war engine. Also                                         found on the post war Hudson                                         would be the smoke fluid filler                                         cap. Now if you find a post war                                         engine with the wide spacing and                                         no smoke fluid cap, with a                                         pitman type motor instead of the                                         vertical shaft motor, well                                         you've just uncovered the last                                         of the post war engines                                         sometimes known as the Korean                                         War Hudson.
          Dominic


          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013                                                 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318                                                 power

            Hi. I'm new to                                                       the group.
          I have a 5318 with                                                       the vertical axis                                                       type motor and was                                                       wondering if these                                                       were the pre-war                                                       models and if they                                                       ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on                                                       what make/model to                                                       look for to power                                                       it, as well.












          Group: vintageHO Message: 21231 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Hey guys, you'll see the smoke unit motor is AC. It doesn't reverse rotation when the DC motor in the engine does. An AC will run on DC but not the other way around. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom



          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:32 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Dale,  Thanks again for all the information.  I had an idea of what I needed to do with this engine/tender and now you have reinforced that position.  Very much appreciated.


          On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Dale Smith wrote:

             Rick,

          I think Dom and I were         both assuming you had a prewar Hudson, ( 200 or 112) because you specified         the ve rtical motor,           which was made as a prewar AC-un iversal motor.  Checking some of my references             though, I find that the vertical motor was also made in a DC             version that was used in the postwar 151 locomotive , which did have the smoke in                 tender unit.                     What confused me at first was that the post war                   locomotives were all DC and would not run on AC.  When                   you said the smoke unit ran better on AC, I assume you                     were running it alone and not in conjunction with                     the main                       DC motor.

          I had                           always assumed that because the post war                             smoke in tender units were D C                               powered, that the SIT motor was also DC.                                 It wouldn't necessarily have to be that                               way though and a universal wound                                   field series motor would also work                                   with the same DC current used o n                                     the mo tor powering the                                       locomotive.  Since I                                         don't have one of these                                         locomotives myself, I took a                                         look at the photos of the SIT                                         unit shown in Gary Klein 's reference work on                                           Gilbert HO.   I am pretty                                             sure that I can see a field                                             and wiring between it and                                             the brushes ,                                               so I am pretty sure that                                               the main motor may have                                               been DC, but the SIT motor                                               may have been an AC                                               motor.  This would have                                               allowed Gilbert to use the                                               same motor used in the S                                               gauge SIT units (which was                                               pretty small), if not the                                               same SIT unit.

          Bottom                                                 line for you though is                                                 that you need to use DC                                                 power to run this                                                 locomotive, which I am                                                 pretty sure now is a postwar                                                   151 .   It is                                                 the only way to                                                   run the permanent                                                   magnet loco motor and                                                   will also run the                                                     universal SIT                                                     motor.  Why the SIT                                                     motor runs better on                                                     AC could be a                                                     difference in                                                     voltage.  An AF or                                                     Lionel AC                                                     transformer puts out                                                     either 15 or 1 8 volts,                                                       whereas an HO                                                         powerpack is                                                         limited to 12                                                         volts.


          Da le Smith
          gilbertho.org
           


          On 6/24/2013 8:33 PM, Rick wrote:

           
          Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just                 saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to                 run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs                 throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an                 E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and                 what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.                            But I just don't happen to have the time to                           concentrate on the little loco that I'd like                           to have.  Could I just ship you the whole                           engine and tender and let you figure out                           what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F.                               Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the                                     early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be                                     a bit confusing.   The first is that                                     the number on the cab is not the                                     model number as was the case with                                     most Gilbert Flyer products, but                                     rather a prototype number.   The                                     model numbers of these "5318"                                     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ),                                     112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit                                     was not an AC sequence reverser,                                     such as that used on post war Flyer                                     S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC                                     pulse reverse triggered unit, which                                     was also used on prewar O gauge                                     Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was                                     triggered in much the same way as a                                     Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC                                     pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor                                     that will run on DC as well as AC,                                     but I would think DC would play some                                     havoc with the reverse unit.  If I                                     were going to run such a locomotive                                     on DC, I would disconnect the                                     reverse unit and insert a small                                     bridge rectifier unit between the                                     current connections to the field and                                     the field itself to enable polarity                                     reversing. 

          Dale Smith


          On                                     6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN                                     wrote:
            Hello                                         Rick, pre war Hudsons could be                                         either. Most are found to be AC                                         and can be proven by looking for                                         the E unit in the tender. Some                                         pre war Hudsons will have a                                         permanent magnet attached to the                                         motor and no E unit. They will                                         run on DC. One more key thing to                                         look for and to help distinguish                                         the pre and post war engines,                                         would be the distance between                                         the names on the tender sides.                                         The "New York Central" spaced                                         closely like my example will be                                         most likely the pre war engine.                                         Look for the wide spacing, "New                                          York  Central" and you have                                         found the post war engine. Also                                         found on the post war Hudson                                         would be the smoke fluid filler                                         cap. Now if you find a post war                                         engine with the wide spacing and                                         no smoke fluid cap, with a                                         pitman type motor instead of the                                         vertical shaft motor, well                                         you've just uncovered the last                                         of the post war engines                                         sometimes known as the Korean                                         War Hudson.
          Dominic


          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013                                                 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318                                                 power

            Hi. I'm new to                                                       the group.
          I have a 5318 with                                                       the vertical axis                                                       type motor and was                                                       wondering if these                                                       were the pre-war                                                       models and if they                                                       ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on                                                       what make/model to                                                       look for to power                                                       it, as well.














          Group: vintageHO Message: 21232 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom



          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.

          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.

          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  

          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

           
          Hi Dale,

          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?

          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

           
          There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318" locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser, such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith
          Gilbertho.org


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
           
          Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have found the post war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          Dominic



          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.










          Group: vintageHO Message: 21233 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be     a bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:
            Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the               tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look               for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War               Hudson.
          Dominic


          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.













          Group: vintageHO Message: 21234 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Hey Rick, the switchers always had them. The last of the post war Hudsons in 1950 went to the pitman type motor. It is also a rather seldom seem engine. The Korean conflict put a stop to the HO line and the 1950 post war Hudson with the then new in the boiler smoke unit was stopped. If you come across a 5318 with the wide spacing between the names on the tender and closed boiler sides as well as the new motor and boiler smoke unit, then you've just found what some consider the Korean War Hudson.
          Dom



          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be     a! bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith


          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:
            Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the               tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look      &n! bsp;        for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean War               Hudson.
          Dominic


          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.















          Group: vintageHO Message: 21235 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Bought one of those just the other day (no tender), out of curiosity.  What the heck, it was just a few bucks.  I'll stick some DC to it later in the week and see what happens.


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Hey Rick, the switchers always had them. The last of the post war Hudsons in 1950 went to the pitman type motor. It is also a rather seldom seem engine. The Korean conflict put a stop to the HO line and the 1950 post war Hudson with the then new in the boiler smoke unit was stopped. If you come across a 5318 with the wide spacing between the names on the tender and closed boiler sides as well as the new motor and boiler smoke unit, then you've just found what some consider the Korean War Hudson.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

              Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert  HO Hudsons that can be     a!   bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith



          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:

            Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre  war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the               tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look      &n!  bsp;        for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean  War               Hudson.
          Dominic




          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis  type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.
















          Group: vintageHO Message: 21236 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          There's one more thing I've forgotten. The last of the 5318s with the new in the boiler smoke unit, had no headlight. It seems they had not come up with a lamp small enough yet? The smoke unit was in the space of the old bulb.
          Dom



          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Bought one of those just the other day (no tender), out of curiosity.  What the heck, it was just a few bucks.  I'll stick some DC to it later in the week and see what happens.


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Hey Rick, the switchers always had them. The last of the post war Hudsons in 1950 went to the pitman type motor. It is also a rather seldom seem engine. The Korean conflict put a stop to the HO line and the 1950 post war Hudson with the then new in the boiler smoke unit was stopped. If you come across a 5318 with the wide spacing between the names on the tender and closed boiler sides as well as the new motor and boiler smoke unit, then you've just found what some consider the Korean War Hudson.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

              Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert  HO Hudsons that can be     a!   bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the ! field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith



          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:

            Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre  war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the         ! ;      tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look      &n!  bsp;        for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean  War               Hudson.
          Dominic




          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis  type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.


















          Group: vintageHO Message: 21237 From: Rick Date: 6/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          That's what I got.

          On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:32 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

           

          There's one more thing I've forgotten. The last of the 5318s with the new in the boiler smoke unit, had no headlight. It seems they had not come up with a lamp small enough yet? The smoke unit was in the space of the old bulb.
          Dom



          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Bought one of those just the other day (no tender), out of curiosity.  What the heck, it was just a few bucks.  I'll stick some DC to it later in the week and see what happens.


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Hey Rick, the switchers always had them. The last of the post war Hudsons in 1950 went to the pitman type motor. It is also a rather seldom seem engine. The Korean conflict put a stop to the HO line and the 1950 post war Hudson with the then new in the boiler smoke unit was stopped. If you come across a 5318 with the wide spacing between the names on the tender and closed boiler sides as well as the new motor and boiler smoke unit, then you've just found what some consider the Korean War Hudson.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

              Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of information here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert  HO Hudsons that can be     a!   bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the ! field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith



          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:

            Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre  war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the         ! ;      tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look      &n!  bsp;        for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean  War               Hudson.
          Dominic




          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis  type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.




















          Group: vintageHO Message: 21238 From: cwrailman Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!

          Don,

          That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.

          I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 


          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          >
          > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > >
          > >
          > You mean like this? :)
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          >
          > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          >
          > Don
          >
          > --
          > Don Dellmann
          > don.dellmann@...
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21239 From: cwrailman Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power

          I have a friend who acquired one of these Gilbert HO scale Hudsons at a garage sale.  It has a D size battery in the tender.  I do not see a battery shown on any of the diagrams.  Was this a common modification and if so why?  I have not yet followed the electrical to see where the wires lead to.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale F. Smith" wrote:
          >
          > There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a
          > bit confusing. The first is that the number on the cab is not the
          > model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but
          > rather a prototype number. The model numbers of these "5318"
          > locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).
          >
          > The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,
          > such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC
          > pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge
          > Gilbert Flyer. Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel
          > whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.
          >
          > The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC,
          > but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit. If I
          > were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the
          > reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the
          > current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity
          > reversing.
          >
          > Dale Smith
          > Gilbertho.org
          >
          >
          > On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
          > > Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC
          > > and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre
          > > war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no
          > > E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to
          > > help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance
          > > between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced
          > > closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look
          > > for the wide spacing, "New York Central" and you have found the post
          > > war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid
          > > filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing
          > > and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the
          > > vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post
          > > war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          > > Dominic
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > *From:* rick.flaherty flick23@...
          > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power
          > >
          > > Hi. I'm new to the group.
          > > I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if
          > > these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          > > Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21240 From: Glen Wasson Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          Attachments :
          Denny,

          That is why you keep them around, to run one now and then.  Much of this hobby is memories, childhood, friends, clubs, and sometimes just because we want to.

          I was heavy into restoring pianos, houses, trains, etc.  I just hate to see something destroyed or disposed of just because it is old.  Taking an old 'junk' piano, cleaning it, repairing its broken parts, adjusting and tuning, and then seeing the looks of the grandchild of the first owner as they see and hear it as an instrument, maybe not the best, but a nice one.  Old houses, watch the movie "Money Pit"  for 24 hours straight before you start.  When we left ours in Sedalia, MO in 1989 my oldest daughter cried and wrote a poem for it.  Memories.  Sort of like an old HO engine with 3 pole motor---If I can just get it to work I have accomplished something.  Not the best, but nice.

          I started with an American Flyer Blue something, maybe streamlined, during early WWII.  I always assumed it was a 2 rail S scale, but I have been led to believe 2 rail S scale was post war.  Anyway, a couple came into our little club meeting, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, to sell their American Flyer 3 rail O scale, First I can remember ever seeing.  Poor overall shape but I bought it for $20.00, just to not see it get thrown away.  I helped another guy get his 60 year old Lionel engine running and learned a lot about how they work by doing so.  Some people do old cars - Jay Leno.

          Glen Wasson   ala   Armchair   getting soft in the head.   
          http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com   

          I feel a blog coming on!



          From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:22 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!

           
          Don,
          That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.
          I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.
          Denny
          Janitor in Training
          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          Facebook: CWRailman 

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          >
          > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > >
          > >
          > You mean like this? :)
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          >
          > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          >
          > Don
          >
          > --
          > Don Dellmann
          > don.dellmann@...
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >


            @@attachment@@
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21241 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]
          Glen and all,

          This is a sentiment that runs deep in me. For me the trains have been the one link between generations of Neubaums. Strictly speaking of my father's side of the family, my great-grandfather emigrated here to America from  Germany shortly before WWI.  From what I've been able to find out, they were somewhat well off in Germany, and he was a stereotypical German craftsman, the kind that we hear car builders touting nowadays. Among the possessions he and his family brought over were clockwork trains, which none have survived to this day except a couple car frames which had at some point had American style wooden bodywork built atop them. Great grandfather got into Lionel at some point around WWI, in O gauge. I do have one of , I believe his, old Lionel electric outline locomotives. My grandfather got into trains too, and was also very much a craftsman with metalworking and woodworking. My dad, we joke, was not so much as his mother - my grandmother - was Polish. As dad says "I can break it, that's the Polack in me, but I can fix it too, which is the German side". But he was into Lionel trains, as was his brother, my uncle Ken.

          In a twist of irony, my uncle Ken had three sons, none of which got into trains or are particularly good at building or fixing anything. I was adopted, and early on Grandpa figured that was the end of the lineage of old-world craftsmen or model railroaders. Not quite. Despite being the only adopted grandson of his, seems I got into trains naturally (Dad has recounted the decision to bring me all the previous generations of Lionel and O gauge came well after he saw that as a baby and infant I was happy and excited when we were stopped at a railroad crossing and would cry after the train passed), and more than somehow inherited the ability to build and fix. We aren't sure how this got passed down. But everyone was happy it did.

          Model railroading in O gauge is a link between my generation (I am 29 years old), and the three previous generations that we know of, and perhaps further back even. Dad and I often get together in the basement of his house and run trains I grew up with as a kid, trains he grew up with, and trains my grandfather grew up with too, and the few odd pieces owned by my great grandfather.

          There is a part of me that wants to preserve what once was, even if only small parts of it. My music at home is almost entirely on shellac 78s, my usual attire around town is slacks, a shirt with buttons and a tie, and a fedora hat. This also extends into model railroading, where the idea of restoring a locomotive and set of cars that hasn't run in decades to full operating condition, is a very powerful feeling. Getting into HO scale was partly my idea of being a "teenage rebellion" (Athough very minor compared to what others would do to rebel against parents!), although I never did give up O gauge, and part of the reasoning was due to being able to afford model railroading into my young adult years.

          Being able to take bits of card and wood and make something out of it is a feeling like no other when the final product is done. For me it is a link to my ancestors and my sense of family. Modern model railroading mostly lacks this feeling, and seems hollow at times, but being able to take scrap material and create out of it, that is my fun and that is a feeling like no other.

          -Steve Neubaum



          From: Glen Wasson <gdwasson@...>
          To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:14 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]

           
          Denny,

          That is why you keep them around, to run one now and then.  Much of this hobby is memories, childhood, friends, clubs, and sometimes just because we want to.

          I was heavy into restoring pianos, houses, trains, etc.  I just hate to see something destroyed or disposed of just because it is old.  Taking an old 'junk' piano, cleaning it, repairing its broken parts, adjusting and tuning, and then seeing the looks of the grandchild of the first owner as they see and hear it as an instrument, maybe not the best, but a nice one.  Old houses, watch the movie "Money Pit"  for 24 hours straight before you start.  When we left ours in Sedalia, MO in 1989 my oldest daughter cried and wrote a poem for it.  Memories.  Sort of like an old HO engine with 3 pole motor---If I can just get it to work I have accomplished something.  Not the best, but nice.

          I started with an American Flyer Blue something, maybe streamlined, during early WWII.  I always assumed it was a 2 rail S scale, but I have been led to believe 2 rail S scale was post war.  Anyway, a couple came into our little club meeting, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, to sell their American Flyer 3 rail O scale, First I can remember ever seeing.  Poor overall shape but I bought it for $20.00, just to not see it get thrown away.  I helped another guy get his 60 year old Lionel engine running and learned a lot about how they work by doing so.  Some people do old cars - Jay Leno.

          Glen Wasson   ala   Armchair   getting soft in the head.   
          http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com/   

          I feel a blog coming on!



          From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:22 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!

           
          Don,
          That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.
          I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.
          Denny
          Janitor in Training
          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          Facebook: CWRailman 

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          >
          > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > >
          > >
          > You mean like this? :)
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          >
          > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          >
          > Don
          >
          > --
          > Don Dellmann
          > don.dellmann@...
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >




          Group: vintageHO Message: 21242 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Hey Rick, if you have the last of the post war Hudsons, or the Korean era engine, well that is vary cool! They are somewhat hard to come across.
          Dominic



          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          That's what I got.

          On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:32 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

           

          There's one more thing I've forgotten. The last of the 5318s with the new in the boiler smoke unit, had no headlight. It seems they had not come up with a lamp small enough yet? The smoke unit was in the space of the old bulb.
          Dom



          From: "flick23@..." <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

           
          Bought one of those just the other day (no tender), out of curiosity.  What the heck, it was just a few bucks.  I'll stick some DC to it later in the week and see what happens.


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Hey Rick, the switchers always had them. The last of the post war Hudsons in 1950 went to the pitman type motor. It is also a rather seldom seem engine. The Korean conflict put a stop to the HO line and the 1950 post war Hudson with the then new in the boiler smoke unit was stopped. If you come across a 5318 with the wide spacing between the names on the tender and closed boiler sides as well as the new motor and boiler smoke unit, then you've just found what some consider the Korean War Hudson.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

              Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of inform! ation here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert  HO Hudsons that can be     a!   bit confusing.   The first is that the number on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the ! field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith



          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:

            Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre  war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the         ! ;      tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look      &n!  bsp;        for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean  War               Hudson.
          Dominic




          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty <flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis  type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.






















          Group: vintageHO Message: 21243 From: rick.flaherty Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Looks like I have one of each, now.  But the Korean is missing some stuff, beside just the tender.  Still, fun.

          Does anyone out there want to sell a ready-to go track layout, with maybe some switches and...?

          I was also wondering what I should do about couplers.  The tender has sometihing like a vertical hook (that got broken in shippment) and the green passenger set I bought has something that looks a bit like knuckle couplers on a diet.  They might be those Pikemaster things in HO.


          On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 4:13 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

             Hey Rick, if you have the last of the post war Hudsons, or the Korean era engine, well that is vary cool! They are somewhat hard to come across.
          Dominic




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick <flick23@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            That's what I got.

          On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:32 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

           

          There's one more thing I've forgotten. The last of the 5318s with the new in the boiler smoke unit, had no headlight. It seems they had not come up with a lamp small enough yet? The smoke unit was in the space of the old bulb.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Bought one of those just the other day (no tender), out of curiosity.  What the heck, it was just a few bucks.  I'll stick some DC to it later in the week and see what happens.


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

              Hey Rick, the switchers always had them. The last of the post war Hudsons in 1950 went to the pitman type motor. It is also a rather seldom seem engine. The Korean conflict put a stop to the HO line and the 1950 post war Hudson with the then new in the boiler smoke unit was stopped. If you come across a  5318 with the wide spacing between the names on the tender and closed boiler sides as well as the new motor and boiler smoke unit, then you've just found what some consider the Korean War Hudson.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Thanks Dom.  When did they go to the lay-down motors?


          On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:

              Rick, it's no doubt a post war DC engine. The smoke unit motors are AC as they won't reverse  rotation when the motor in the engine does. An AC motor will run on DC but the DC motor won't run on AC. Just run it on DC and you'll be fine.
          Dom




          ___________________________________

          From: Rick < flick23@...>
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013  11:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

            Dominic,

          for some reason I never got your response.  I just saw it attached to Dale's response.


          What I have is a non-magnetic SIT unit which seems to run better on AC.  It has a fluid cap that runs throughout the top shell.  Ot doesn't seem to have an E-unit.


          The engine, however, has a permanent magnet.  


          What dates do you think this combination is from and what should I use to run it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:46 PM, Rick wrote:

            Hi Dale,


          Lots of inform!  ation here.  Thanks for that.  But I just don't happen to have the time to concentrate on the little loco that I'd like to have.  Could I just ship you the whole engine and tender and let you figure out what's best for it?


          Rick
          On Jun 23, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

            There are two things about the early Gilbert  HO Hudsons that can be     a!   bit confusing.   The first is that the number  on the cab is not     the model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products,     but rather a prototype number.   The model numbers of these "5318"     locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151     (postwar).

          The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,     such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather     a DC pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O     gauge Gilbert Flyer.  Reversing was triggered in much the same way     as a Lionel whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.

          The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as     AC, but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse     unit.  If I were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would     disconnect the reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit     between the current connections to the !  field and the field itself to     enable polarity reversing. 

          Dale Smith



          On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN       wrote:

            Hello Rick, pre war  Hudsons               could be either. Most are found to be AC and can be proven               by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre  war               Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor               and no E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to               look for and to help distinguish the pre and post war               engines, would be the distance between the names on the         !  ;      tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced closely like               my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look      &n!  bsp;        for the wide spacing, "New  York  Central" and you have               found the post war engine. Also found on the post war               Hudson would be the smoke fluid filler cap. Now if you               find a post war engine with the wide spacing and no smoke               fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of  the               vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last               of the post war engines sometimes known as the Korean  War               Hudson.
          Dominic




          ___________________________________

          From: rick.flaherty < flick23@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power

             Hi. I'm new to the group.
          I have a 5318 with the vertical axis   type                             motor and was wondering if these were the                             pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          Any suggestions on what make/model to look                             for to power it, as well.
























          Group: vintageHO Message: 21244 From: Dale Smith Date: 6/26/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Denny,

          Not sure what that might be used for.  I have heard of using a battery to provide the dc pulse required for some whistles, which should also work for triggering a DC activated reverse unit.  That is generally done at the control panel though, not in the locomotive.   Maybe it was put in the tender to give it a slight boost needed to activate the relay.    A D cell is a bit big for an HO tender though, especially if it has a reversing relay in it too.

          Dale
          On 6/26/2013 9:42 AM, cwrailman wrote:
           

          I have a friend who acquired one of these Gilbert HO scale Hudsons at a garage sale.  It has a D size battery in the tender.  I do not see a battery shown on any of the diagrams.  Was this a common modification and if so why?  I have not yet followed the electrical to see where the wires lead to.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dale F. Smith" wrote:
          >
          > There are two things about the early Gilbert HO Hudsons that can be a
          > bit confusing. The first is that the number on the cab is not the
          > model number as was the case with most Gilbert Flyer products, but
          > rather a prototype number. The model numbers of these "5318"
          > locomotives could be 200 (1938-39 ), 112 (1940-41), or 151 (postwar).
          >
          > The second is that the reverse unit was not an AC sequence reverser,
          > such as that used on post war Flyer S gauge locomotives, but rather a DC
          > pulse reverse triggered unit, which was also used on prewar O gauge
          > Gilbert Flyer. Reversing was triggered in much the same way as a Lionel
          > whistle is blown, by a DC pulse.
          >
          > The vertical motor is a series motor that will run on DC as well as AC,
          > but I would think DC would play some havoc with the reverse unit. If I
          > were going to run such a locomotive on DC, I would disconnect the
          > reverse unit and insert a small bridge rectifier unit between the
          > current connections to the field and the field itself to enable polarity
          > reversing.
          >
          > Dale Smith
          > Gilbertho.org
          >
          >
          > On 6/19/2013 5:24 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
          > > Hello Rick, pre war Hudsons could be either. Most are found to be AC
          > > and can be proven by looking for the E unit in the tender. Some pre
          > > war Hudsons will have a permanent magnet attached to the motor and no
          > > E unit. They will run on DC. One more key thing to look for and to
          > > help distinguish the pre and post war engines, would be the distance
          > > between the names on the tender sides. The "New York Central" spaced
          > > closely like my example will be most likely the pre war engine. Look
          > > for the wide spacing, "New York Central" and you have found the post
          > > war engine. Also found on the post war Hudson would be the smoke fluid
          > > filler cap. Now if you find a post war engine with the wide spacing
          > > and no smoke fluid cap, with a pitman type motor instead of the
          > > vertical shaft motor, well you've just uncovered the last of the post
          > > war engines sometimes known as the Korean War Hudson.
          > > Dominic
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > *From:* rick.flaherty flick23@...
          > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:16 PM
          > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Flyer 5318 power
          > >
          > > Hi. I'm new to the group.
          > > I have a 5318 with the vertical axis type motor and was wondering if
          > > these were the pre-war models and if they ran on AC ort DC.
          > > Any suggestions on what make/model to look for to power it, as well.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21245 From: Glen Wasson Date: 6/27/2013
          Subject: Re: Memories!
          Steve, Don, Denny and the rest,

          This recent collection of posts and replies exemplifies the best of what our model railroading hobby has to offer.  We can share our memories with friends who understand and relate.  Each of us contributes a little here and someone else a little there, a third connects the two and before long a thread has drawn all of us a little closer.  There is room in the hobby for everyone to express themselves and hopefully we let that happen.  There are John Allens and John Does.  Each is unique and contributes what they can with what they have; skills, patience, time, money, room, abilities.  What we will all take to the end is memories.

          Glen Wasson


          From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...>
          To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 3:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!

           
          Glen and all,

          This is a sentiment that runs deep in me. For me the trains have been the one link between generations of Neubaums. Strictly speaking of my father's side of the family, my great-grandfather emigrated here to America from  Germany shortly before WWI.  From what I've been able to find out, they were somewhat well off in Germany, and he was a stereotypical German craftsman, the kind that we hear car builders touting nowadays. Among the possessions he and his family brought over were clockwork trains, which none have survived to this day except a couple car frames which had at some point had American style wooden bodywork built atop them. Great grandfather got into Lionel at some point around WWI, in O gauge. I do have one of , I believe his, old Lionel electric outline locomotives. My grandfather got into trains too, and was also very much a craftsman with metalworking and woodworking. My dad, we joke, was not so much as his mother - my grandmother - was Polish. As dad says "I can break it, that's the Polack in me, but I can fix it too, which is the German side". But he was into Lionel trains, as was his brother, my uncle Ken.

          In a twist of irony, my uncle Ken had three sons, none of which got into trains or are particularly good at building or fixing anything. I was adopted, and early on Grandpa figured that was the end of the lineage of old-world craftsmen or model railroaders. Not quite. Despite being the only adopted grandson of his, seems I got into trains naturally (Dad has recounted the decision to bring me all the previous generations of Lionel and O gauge came well after he saw that as a baby and infant I was happy and excited when we were stopped at a railroad crossing and would cry after the train passed), and more than somehow inherited the ability to build and fix. We aren't sure how this got passed down. But everyone was happy it did.

          Model railroading in O gauge is a link between my generation (I am 29 years old), and the three previous generations that we know of, and perhaps further back even. Dad and I often get together in the basement of his house and run trains I grew up with as a kid, trains he grew up with, and trains my grandfather grew up with too, and the few odd pieces owned by my great grandfather.

          There is a part of me that wants to preserve what once was, even if only small parts of it. My music at home is almost entirely on shellac 78s, my usual attire around town is slacks, a shirt with buttons and a tie, and a fedora hat. This also extends into model railroading, where the idea of restoring a locomotive and set of cars that hasn't run in decades to full operating condition, is a very powerful feeling. Getting into HO scale was partly my idea of being a "teenage rebellion" (Athough very minor compared to what others would do to rebel against parents!), although I never did give up O gauge, and part of the reasoning was due to being able to afford model railroading into my young adult years.

          Being able to take bits of card and wood and make something out of it is a feeling like no other when the final product is done. For me it is a link to my ancestors and my sense of family. Modern model railroading mostly lacks this feeling, and seems hollow at times, but being able to take scrap material and create out of it, that is my fun and that is a feeling like no other.

          -Steve Neubaum



          From: Glen Wasson <gdwasson@...>
          To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:14 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]

           
          Denny,

          That is why you keep them around, to run one now and then.  Much of this hobby is memories, childhood, friends, clubs, and sometimes just because we want to.

          I was heavy into restoring pianos, houses, trains, etc.  I just hate to see something destroyed or disposed of just because it is old.  Taking an old 'junk' piano, cleaning it, repairing its broken parts, adjusting and tuning, and then seeing the looks of the grandchild of the first owner as they see and hear it as an instrument, maybe not the best, but a nice one.  Old houses, watch the movie "Money Pit"  for 24 hours straight before you start.  When we left ours in Sedalia, MO in 1989 my oldest daughter cried and wrote a poem for it.  Memories.  Sort of like an old HO engine with 3 pole motor---If I can just get it to work I have accomplished something.  Not the best, but nice.

          I started with an American Flyer Blue something, maybe streamlined, during early WWII.  I always assumed it was a 2 rail S scale, but I have been led to believe 2 rail S scale was post war.  Anyway, a couple came into our little club meeting, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, to sell their American Flyer 3 rail O scale, First I can remember ever seeing.  Poor overall shape but I bought it for $20.00, just to not see it get thrown away.  I helped another guy get his 60 year old Lionel engine running and learned a lot about how they work by doing so.  Some people do old cars - Jay Leno.

          Glen Wasson   ala   Armchair   getting soft in the head.   
          http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com/   

          I feel a blog coming on!



          From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:22 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!

           
          Don,
          That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.
          I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.
          Denny
          Janitor in Training
          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          Facebook: CWRailman 

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          >
          > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > >
          > >
          > You mean like this? :)
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          >
          > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          >
          > Don
          >
          > --
          > Don Dellmann
          > don.dellmann@...
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >






          Group: vintageHO Message: 21246 From: Richard Date: 6/27/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]
          Steve, very well put. At almost 75, I can relate to every thing you said but have trouble putting it as nice as you did. I'm thankful to be able to find an old loco every now and then on eBay that I can afford, otherwise I'd be left beside the road so to speak with this hobby that I so love. Todays RTR stuff while nice is beyond my retirement income. I can be very happy restoring an old Mantua or MDC/Roundhouse steamer until I find a way to make it run as nice as a new engine. I just found an old John English 2-8-2 that has turned out to be a diamond in the rough. I really don't have to have DCC sound and smoke to peak my interest although it is admittedly a treat to watch. The geat thing about this hobby is that there's something in it for everyone.
          Richard in Vermont

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
          >
          > Glen and all,
          >
          > This is a sentiment that runs deep in me. For me the trains have been the one link between generations of Neubaums. Strictly speaking of my father's side of the family, my great-grandfather emigrated here to America from  Germany shortly before WWI.  From what I've been able to find out, they were somewhat well off in Germany, and he was a stereotypical German craftsman, the kind that we hear car builders touting nowadays. Among the possessions he and his family brought over were clockwork trains, which none have survived to this day except a couple car frames which had at some point had American style wooden bodywork built atop them. Great grandfather got into Lionel at some point around WWI, in O gauge. I do have one of , I believe his, old Lionel electric outline locomotives. My grandfather got into trains too, and was also very much a craftsman with metalworking and woodworking. My dad, we joke, was not so much as his mother - my grandmother - was
          > Polish. As dad says "I can break it, that's the Polack in me, but I can fix it too, which is the German side". But he was into Lionel trains, as was his brother, my uncle Ken.
          >
          > In a twist of irony, my uncle Ken had three sons, none of which got into trains or are particularly good at building or fixing anything. I was adopted, and early on Grandpa figured that was the end of the lineage of old-world craftsmen or model railroaders. Not quite. Despite being the only adopted grandson of his, seems I got into trains naturally (Dad has recounted the decision to bring me all the previous generations of Lionel and O gauge came well after he saw that as a baby and infant I was happy and excited when we were stopped at a railroad crossing and would cry after the train passed), and more than somehow inherited the ability to build and fix. We aren't sure how this got passed down. But everyone was happy it did.
          >
          > Model railroading in O gauge is a link between my generation (I am 29 years old), and the three previous generations that we know of, and perhaps further back even. Dad and I often get together in the basement of his house and run trains I grew up with as a kid, trains he grew up with, and trains my grandfather grew up with too, and the few odd pieces owned by my great grandfather.
          >
          > There is a part of me that wants to preserve what once was, even if only small parts of it. My music at home is almost entirely on shellac 78s, my usual attire around town is slacks, a shirt with buttons and a tie, and a fedora hat. This also extends into model railroading, where the idea of restoring a locomotive and set of cars that hasn't run in decades to full operating condition, is a very powerful feeling. Getting into HO scale was partly my idea of being a "teenage rebellion" (Athough very minor compared to what others would do to rebel against parents!), although I never did give up O gauge, and part of the reasoning was due to being able to afford model railroading into my young adult years.
          >
          > Being able to take bits of card and wood and make something out of it is a feeling like no other when the final product is done. For me it is a link to my ancestors and my sense of family. Modern model railroading mostly lacks this feeling, and seems hollow at times, but being able to take scrap material and create out of it, that is my fun and that is a feeling like no other.
          >
          > -Steve Neubaum
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Glen Wasson <gdwasson@...>
          > To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:14 PM
          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > [Attachment(s) from Glen Wasson included below]
          > Denny,
          >
          > That is why you keep them around, to run one now and then.  Much of this hobby is memories, childhood, friends, clubs, and sometimes just because we want to.
          >
          > I was heavy into restoring pianos, houses, trains, etc.  I just hate to see something destroyed or disposed of just because it is old.  Taking an old 'junk' piano, cleaning it, repairing its broken parts, adjusting and tuning, and then seeing the looks of the grandchild of the first owner as they see and hear it as an instrument, maybe not the best, but a nice one.  Old houses, watch the movie "Money Pit"  for 24 hours straight before you start.  When we left ours in Sedalia, MO in 1989 my oldest daughter cried and wrote a poem for it.  Memories.  Sort of like an old HO engine with 3 pole motor---If I can just get it to work I have accomplished something.  Not the best, but nice.
          >
          > I started with an American Flyer Blue something, maybe streamlined, during early WWII.  I always assumed it was a 2 rail S scale, but I have been led to believe 2 rail S scale was post war.  Anyway, a couple came into our little club meeting, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, to sell their American Flyer 3 rail O scale, First I can remember ever seeing.  Poor overall shape but I bought it for $20.00, just to not see it get thrown away.  I helped another guy get his 60 year old Lionel engine running and learned a lot about how they work by doing so.  Some people do old cars - Jay Leno.
          >
          > Glen Wasson  
          > ala   Armchair  getting soft in the head.   
          > http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com/%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0
          >
          > I feel a blog coming on!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:22 AM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > Don,
          > That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.
          > I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the
          > first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.
          > Denny
          > Janitor in Training
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          > Facebook: CWRailman 
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          > >
          > > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > You mean like this? :)
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          > >
          > > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          > >
          > > Don
          > >
          > > --
          > > Don Dellmann
          > > don.dellmann@
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          > >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21247 From: bcpryor Date: 6/27/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          Except for the truck differences, it has been done before, full sized.

          http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067&nseq=208

          Bruce Pryor
          http://narrowmind.railfan.net/






          > You mean like this? :)
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          >
          > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible,
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21248 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/27/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          Yes, the rejuvenation of these relics of times long past bring a certain type of satisfaction unique to this facet of the hobby! Along with a lot of help from Larry @ HoSeekers, I just finished up a beautiful A-B Set of vintage Athearn/Pittman Gear-Reduction Band Drives topped off with vintage Milwaukee shells in mint condition. I found one of these drives and the shells in the remnants of a "Yellow Box" set I acquired on the internet. Larry hooked me up with a couple of these "Pittman" drives he had languishing in his "motor bin". I had a couple of Hi-F F-7 frames that the shaft bores were worn beyond acceptable tolerances and modified them to accept the new drives. The results were incredible. These drives are an incredible improvement over the stock H-F drives. And so, three vintage drives live again! I've got another vintage train set that has a unit that performs "marginal" at best. The third drive will end up there I presume. Thanks to all the assistance and advice that the members of this site have given to me! Hope that I can return the favors sometime! Van.

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Glen Wasson <gdwasson@...> wrote:
          >
          > Denny,
          >
          > That is why you keep them around, to run one now and then.  Much of this hobby is memories, childhood, friends, clubs, and sometimes just because we want to.
          >
          > I was heavy into restoring pianos, houses, trains, etc.  I just hate to see something destroyed or disposed of just because it is old.  Taking an old 'junk' piano, cleaning it, repairing its broken parts, adjusting and tuning, and then seeing the looks of the grandchild of the first owner as they see and hear it as an instrument, maybe not the best, but a nice one.  Old houses, watch the movie "Money Pit"  for 24 hours straight before you start.  When we left ours in Sedalia, MO in 1989 my oldest daughter cried and wrote a poem for it.  Memories.  Sort of like an old HO engine with 3 pole motor---If I can just get it to work I have accomplished something.  Not the best, but nice.
          >
          > I started with an American Flyer Blue something, maybe streamlined, during early WWII.  I always assumed it was a 2 rail S scale, but I have been led to believe 2 rail S scale was post war.  Anyway, a couple came into our little club meeting, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, to sell their American Flyer 3 rail O scale, First I can remember ever seeing.  Poor overall shape but I bought it for $20.00, just to not see it get thrown away.  I helped another guy get his 60 year old Lionel engine running and learned a lot about how they work by doing so.  Some people do old cars - Jay Leno.
          >
          > Glen Wasson   ala   Armchair  getting soft in the head.   
          > http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com   
          >
          > I feel a blog coming on!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:22 AM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > Don,
          > That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.
          > I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the
          > first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.
          > Denny
          > Janitor in Training
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          > Facebook: CWRailman 
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          > >
          > > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > You mean like this? :)
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          > >
          > > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          > >
          > > Don
          > >
          > > --
          > > Don Dellmann
          > > don.dellmann@
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          > >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21249 From: David Date: 6/28/2013
          Subject: Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have see
          Photos of a scratch/partsbuilt model of the ATSF crane locomotive are in the September 1971 Model Railroader, p. 43. MR called it a locomotive crane, but in the Jan. 72 issue is a letter explaining the difference between a crane locomotive and a locomotive crane. Tru-Scale made a locomotive crane; there's an article on powering it in the September 1959 MR. You'll remember that Bullwinkle the Moose had the remarkable mental power of being able to remember everything he ever ate (it came in handy when they were searching for a secret rocket-fuel formula that had been written on a banana). For a while, I had something like that for odd MR articles from 1962 up through the 1980s, but mercifully, it's largely faded away. Unlike Bullwinkle, I couldn't give the exact date; that's what the MR 75 year collection on DVD is for.

          -- David

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
          >
          > Actually, not so fanciful. AT&SF had a shop switcher with a crane mounted exactly like that. A brass model was made of it.
          >
          > http://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/039309/HO-Key-AT-SF-Shop-Switcher-with-Crane-0-4-0-2298-Custom-Painted
          >
          > The engine photos don't have the crane mounted but you can see it in a bag in one of the photos. It mounted with the smokestack going through it.
          >
          > Chuck Kinzer
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Sean Naylor
          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:46 AM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before! [3 Attachments]
          >
          >
          >
          > [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]
          >
          >
          > Hi All!
          >
          >
          > OK.. Had to make an offer and buy it from the guy!
          >
          >
          > I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model Railroader or MRC.
          >
          >
          > It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!
          >
          >
          > Any thoughts or memories anyone?
          >
          > Sean
          >
          >
          > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21250 From: Chrisb_acw_rr Date: 6/28/2013
          Subject: Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          All well put by all concerned, and while I started like many in the fifties with AF, it was my mother's gift in those days of two bound volumes of WWII era Model Railroader issue (1941 & '42) that hooked me on vintage HO forever. As I've posted here before, my own shift from vintage diecast to vintage low budget brass came about because I.chose to model a line whose units were only available in vintage brass, and even then would require some bashing and scratchbiuilding.

          Those choices led to a decision to build a bare vintage DC only layout i describe below in a recent post to a brass yahoo group. Because part of the post shared many of the recent comments in this thread, I offer that portion below to add my own support for the general appreciation of how this hobby has room for any chosen path!

          Chris Brannigan

          I'm assembling this roster of brass HO model freight cars to support the vintage brass roster of models I've collected to represent the motive power of the Washington & Old Dominion in the 1940-1960 era. 
          It took a number of years to acquire those models, not because they were valuable, but because in many cases they were imported in such small numbers as to make them scarce on ebay and at shows.
          Most were bought unpainted, but some were bought painted and stripped to match the rest of the roster; (a W&R M 65-67 and a Balboa M-180 railcar, and two Hallmark Whitcomb center cab 65T diesel switchers.)

          I'd be fairly surprised to learn there's another,
          I am one collector/operator who prefers to run their collection of all unpainted vintage brass models 
          on a layout specifically designed to display and operate that collection in an appropriate setting; 
          a layout that features no painted models of any kind, no ballast, DCC, sound, plastic, or paint, and no typical scenery; 
          excepting natural sheet cork backdrops, finished hardwood shelving, vintage Tenshodo hardwood roadbed/trackage, 
          and the occasional unpainted brass bridge.

          I have posted about my layout and unpainted brass roster before, I began this project in 2008 intending to build a typical scenery-based layout, and like many others, got into brass models because that was the only source for models of prototypes of my chosen small eccentric short line, the Washington & Old Dominion.

          But after I started collecting and displaying those models on mahogany roadbed Tenshodo track in my den, while the layout construction was underway in the basement, the photos I took of the models in that state on that trackage set on antique oak shelves convinced me to take a different path.

          I continued collecting, but my layout plans changed drastically, 
          and now I collected models that were intended for operation on a vintage HO DC layout 
          that presented all natural brass motive power and rolling stock 
          on vintage Tenshodo hardwood trackage on finished hardwood shelves 
          with cork backdrops and only brass bridges for scenery.

          The collection of brass models is not expensive or that extensive, 
          but it was specifically collected for unpainted operation on a layout 
          specifically designed to permit modeling prototype operations 
          of a very small unique railroad (Washington & Old Dominion) in the 1940-1960 era 
          using reasonably accurate models of motive power and rolling stock and including reasonably accurate representations 
          of the primary landmark locations and LDEs of the W&OD
          (Alexandria Jct., the Pot Yard Viaduct,Rosslyn yard, Bluemont Jct., Vienna, Trap Rock Quarry, and Leesburg.)


          After five years of building, plan-revising, and replacing, the final benchwork is recently complete, I'm back in tracklaying, with Tenshodo track and turnouts in the visible main room, and with code 100 Atlas flex track and Shinohara flex bridge track in the two rooms with staging area trackage and level-transition ramps. 

          The brass rail on the Tenshodo trackage is easily replaced with new nickel silver rail, if it causes me any real issues, that's my plan, 
          and I have nickel silver Truscale turnout kits for the rail on the Tenshodo turnouts, 
          and even just for display, it's an attractive base for brass models on shelves.
          It shows up on eBay regularly, usually listed as tru scale, but is distinguished by lacking paint and not featuring open frog turnouts.

          When I've completed all 300+ feet of double track line, I'll apply sheet roll cork backdrops for all levels, and in time, I'll try and operate models of W&OD motive power and rolling stock in accordance with the various sub-eras of the 1940-1960 period.  I like to call it "fast calendar" where units will be in use with appropriate era rolling stock during the WWII ere years they were present on the line, and be retired to staging and be replaced by the engines and cars present in the 1950s.  

          Of course there are no brass models commercially available for the iconic home-built or orphan units of the WWII era W&OD roster, the ex PRR Budd Micheline Cars, the Evans Auto-Railer line cars, the portable Westinghouse substation cars, or the homey wooden freight motor #25 and the bizarre portholed freight motor #26.

          So the final stage of the plan is to use all of the time energy funds and effort saved on omitting paint, scenery, DCC, sound, etc. from the entire layout and roster and rolling stock to enable me to use the small collection of vintage tinsmith, jeweler, and machinist bench tools and a bench full of small scale fabrication tools to modify the commercial models to better match the prototypes, and then to use those developed skills to scratch-build in brass all of the remaining units on the W&OD roster, with the large-fluted ex PRR Budd Micheline cars to be the final project should I live so long.

          I have two years to retirement, and I spent my youth as a restoration cabinetmaker and millwright, (I restored Mary Surratt's desk for my cabinet making apprenticeship final task; and fabricated tooling and produced interior and exterior staircase and ornamental molding and trim for numerous historic house restorations in DC that required +_1/32" accuracy to the original work to meet requirements for funding by the Dept of the Interior)

          So on the one hand I know how crazy this project is, and John Glaab has repeatedly told my I will need an additional lifetime to complete it, but all of the historic house staircases I built are still standing and expected to last for centuries, so I'd like to think the brass models will be welcome in the W&OD archive at the trail end; and the layouts of the best and the least never last beyond their maker, so that's just another reason to focus my energy on the models not the scenery!

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Jun 27, 2013, at 10:23 AM, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:

           

          Steve, very well put. At almost 75, I can relate to every thing you said but have trouble putting it as nice as you did. I'm thankful to be able to find an old loco every now and then on eBay that I can afford, otherwise I'd be left beside the road so to speak with this hobby that I so love. Todays RTR stuff while nice is beyond my retirement income. I can be very happy restoring an old Mantua or MDC/Roundhouse steamer until I find a way to make it run as nice as a new engine. I just found an old John English 2-8-2 that has turned out to be a diamond in the rough. I really don't have to have DCC sound and smoke to peak my interest although it is admittedly a treat to watch. The geat thing about this hobby is that there's something in it for everyone.
          Richard in Vermont

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
          >
          > Glen and all,
          >
          > This is a sentiment that runs deep in me. For me the trains have been the one link between generations of Neubaums. Strictly speaking of my father's side of the family, my great-grandfather emigrated here to America from  Germany shortly before WWI.  From what I've been able to find out, they were somewhat well off in Germany, and he was a stereotypical German craftsman, the kind that we hear car builders touting nowadays. Among the possessions he and his family brought over were clockwork trains, which none have survived to this day except a couple car frames which had at some point had American style wooden bodywork built atop them. Great grandfather got into Lionel at some point around WWI, in O gauge. I do have one of , I believe his, old Lionel electric outline locomotives. My grandfather got into trains too, and was also very much a craftsman with metalworking and woodworking. My dad, we joke, was not so much as his mother - my grandmother - was
          > Polish. As dad says "I can break it, that's the Polack in me, but I can fix it too, which is the German side". But he was into Lionel trains, as was his brother, my uncle Ken.
          >
          > In a twist of irony, my uncle Ken had three sons, none of which got into trains or are particularly good at building or fixing anything. I was adopted, and early on Grandpa figured that was the end of the lineage of old-world craftsmen or model railroaders. Not quite. Despite being the only adopted grandson of his, seems I got into trains naturally (Dad has recounted the decision to bring me all the previous generations of Lionel and O gauge came well after he saw that as a baby and infant I was happy and excited when we were stopped at a railroad crossing and would cry after the train passed), and more than somehow inherited the ability to build and fix. We aren't sure how this got passed down. But everyone was happy it did.
          >
          > Model railroading in O gauge is a link between my generation (I am 29 years old), and the three previous generations that we know of, and perhaps further back even. Dad and I often get together in the basement of his house and run trains I grew up with as a kid, trains he grew up with, and trains my grandfather grew up with too, and the few odd pieces owned by my great grandfather.
          >
          > There is a part of me that wants to preserve what once was, even if only small parts of it. My music at home is almost entirely on shellac 78s, my usual attire around town is slacks, a shirt with buttons and a tie, and a fedora hat. This also extends into model railroading, where the idea of restoring a locomotive and set of cars that hasn't run in decades to full operating condition, is a very powerful feeling. Getting into HO scale was partly my idea of being a "teenage rebellion" (Athough very minor compared to what others would do to rebel against parents!), although I never did give up O gauge, and part of the reasoning was due to being able to afford model railroading into my young adult years.
          >
          > Being able to take bits of card and wood and make something out of it is a feeling like no other when the final product is done. For me it is a link to my ancestors and my sense of family. Modern model railroading mostly lacks this feeling, and seems hollow at times, but being able to take scrap material and create out of it, that is my fun and that is a feeling like no other.
          >
          > -Steve Neubaum
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Glen Wasson <gdwasson@...>
          > To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:14 PM
          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making! [1 Attachment]
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > [Attachment(s) from Glen Wasson included below]
          > Denny,
          >
          > That is why you keep them around, to run one now and then.  Much of this hobby is memories, childhood, friends, clubs, and sometimes just because we want to.
          >
          > I was heavy into restoring pianos, houses, trains, etc.  I just hate to see something destroyed or disposed of just because it is old.  Taking an old 'junk' piano, cleaning it, repairing its broken parts, adjusting and tuning, and then seeing the looks of the grandchild of the first owner as they see and hear it as an instrument, maybe not the best, but a nice one.  Old houses, watch the movie "Money Pit"  for 24 hours straight before you start.  When we left ours in Sedalia, MO in 1989 my oldest daughter cried and wrote a poem for it.  Memories.  Sort of like an old HO engine with 3 pole motor---If I can just get it to work I have accomplished something.  Not the best, but nice.
          >
          > I started with an American Flyer Blue something, maybe streamlined, during early WWII.  I always assumed it was a 2 rail S scale, but I have been led to believe 2 rail S scale was post war.  Anyway, a couple came into our little club meeting, Rail Roadrunners of Yuma, to sell their American Flyer 3 rail O scale, First I can remember ever seeing.  Poor overall shape but I bought it for $20.00, just to not see it get thrown away.  I helped another guy get his 60 year old Lionel engine running and learned a lot about how they work by doing so.  Some people do old cars - Jay Leno.
          >
          > Glen Wasson  
          > ala   Armchair  getting soft in the head.   
          > http://armchairmodelbuilders101.com/   
          >
          > I feel a blog coming on!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:22 AM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Project 35 Years In The Making!
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > Don,
          > That FG-1 looks plausible.  It has good lines and seems to provide decent sight lines over the hood etc. Have you replaced the gears on that drive unit yet?  I have about 8 of those drives and all have at least two sets of cracked gears.   I keep thinking I should order a set of replacement geared axles from NWSL but have never been sufficiently motivated to do so.
          > I remember when those Model Power FA's came out.  I am not into diesels but our club, The Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago , had a diesel only operation night so I bought a couple powered units.  When all the shops were selling those for about $20 I found a hobby shop across the border in Indiana who seemed to get liquidation type items in quantity which he priced like clearance items.  He was selling powered FA units for $7.50.  He only had 2 road names though.  The guys in the club all gave me money and I went down there and bought 10 units.  O ddly enough, the shop owner would not allow you to test the unit until you paid for it.  Then he would test it.  None that I purchased were defective so I do not know what he would have done if one did not run.  Those units ran smoother than Athearn units of the same time period and I put a lot of miles on mine.   They were made in the same factory and shared some drive line components with the
          > first Atlas diesels.  O ver the years I have picked up spares at swap meets.  Like some other things, I have no idea why I keep them around.  I'm no longer a member of a club and they certainly do not fit on my 1928 era California based logging line.  I think I'm going to go run one now.
          > Denny
          > Janitor in Training
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          > Facebook: CWRailman 
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote:
          > >
          > > On 6/16/2013 8:27 PM, Van B. Campbell wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Does anybody remember the old days when you had to "kitbash" to
          > > > model a desired piece of rolling stock? As a kid, I can remember an
          > > > mid-1970s MR article on a Tyco GP-20/Athearn SD-9 kitbash to model a
          > > > low-nose version of the SD-9/SD-24. I traded some stuff to a guy for a
          > > > couple of powered Blue Box SD-9s with the intention of bashing a
          > > > couple of these together. Well, a few years went by and I've finally
          > > > gotten around to them! To make up for lost time, I found two more NOS
          > > > powered units on eBay and built up four of 'em! I know that Chico
          > > > never had SD-9s, but my version of the AT&SF allows me leeway to
          > > > practice my modelers license! As long as the model is plausible, it
          > > > can exist! These will look great hauling a 'York Canyon' unit coal
          > > > train through my "Waynoka Subdivision"!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > You mean like this? :)
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/8064045724/
          > >
          > > Or a bit more on topic, and a bit more plausible, two vintage Revell
          > > NW-2's made into a TR-2
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/6013798329
          > >
          > > Don
          > >
          > > --
          > > Don Dellmann
          > > don.dellmann@
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          > >
          >

          Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10)
          Recent Activity:
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21251 From: vancampbell64 Date: 6/28/2013
          Subject: Vintage Athearn C&O F7-B Shell
          Does anyone have a 1960's vintage Athearn F7-B shell in C&O livery that they would like to part with? The "Standard Guide" lists both numbered and un-numbered variations applicable to this piece, but my NOS 0127 kit that I'm going to match up with the B-unit has the numbered shell, so I'd prefer a numbered B-unit shell to compliment it. Due to the A-unit's condition, I would only be interested in a shell that is also in mint condition. Thanks, Van.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21252 From: Nelson Date: 6/28/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power
          Denny,

          AFAIK the 5318's had a smoke unit in the tender. I have a limited exposure to Lionel O scale, but I do remember playing with a pair of Lionel F units at someone else's house when I was a kid and having to scrounge up a D cell to operate the horn in one of them. Someone might have built a whistle circuit like that, but a D cell wouldn't leave room for much of anything, especially a speaker. What's the battery connected to?

          Nelson


          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I have a friend who acquired one of these Gilbert HO scale Hudsons at a
          > garage sale. It has a D size battery in the tender. I do not see a
          > battery shown on any of the diagrams. Was this a common modification
          > and if so why? I have not yet followed the electrical to see where the
          > wires lead to.
          >
          > Denny
          >
          > Janitor in Training
          >
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21253 From: bill Date: 6/29/2013
          Subject: Using Tru scale switches with their remote and lindsay track spiker
          I have several Tru Scale Switches I bought a few years ago, some have thier switch motors already installed on the switch. I also bought seperate Tru-Scale switch motors. Has anyone had any problem with these machines????

          Also I have a Lindsay track spiker which as some will know it is simply a standard track tool that seems to hold the spike and you push down with it. Has anyone used these to lay handlaid track????

          Thanks
          Bill Vasilion
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21254 From: cwrailman Date: 7/2/2013
          Subject: Re: Flyer 5318 power

          Nelson,

          I do not know what the battery is hooked to.  He had showed it to me briefly during a visit but we did not have a lot of time to investigate the issue.  I did comment that the battery looked old but had not leaked out.  I'm guessing that it is not something that was installed by the factory otherwise those who have these models would have spoken up.    

          It is a Hudson but someone did a repaint so we have no way of knowing what the cab number was. I'm going to pass along the comments I received from you and Dale. Thanks guys!

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 

            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote:

          >
          > Denny,
          >
          > AFAIK the 5318's had a smoke unit in the tender. I have a limited exposure to Lionel O scale, but I do remember playing with a pair of Lionel F units at someone else's house when I was a kid and having to scrounge up a D cell to operate the horn in one of them. Someone might have built a whistle circuit like that, but a D cell wouldn't leave room for much of anything, especially a speaker. What's the battery connected to?
          >
          > Nelson
          >
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I have a friend who acquired one of these Gilbert HO scale Hudsons at a
          > > garage sale. It has a D size battery in the tender. I do not see a
          > > battery shown on any of the diagrams. Was this a common modification
          > > and if so why? I have not yet followed the electrical to see where the
          > > wires lead to.
          > >
          > > Denny
          > >
          > > Janitor in Training
          > >
          > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          >

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21255 From: trainliker Date: 7/4/2013
          Subject: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
          The "Train Collectors Quarterly" is the magazine of the Train Collectors Association (TCA).  This organization is usually (always?) thought of in terms O tinplate trains whether standard gauge, O, or S.
           
          In the Jul 2013 issue there is an article "The State of an HO Collector" authored by Carol R. McGinnis and Glen Roe (both TCA members as am I).
           
          The TCA president writes this before the article starts:  "...there have been several people for several years at the Division and Chapter level who have been talking about HO and N gauge collectors..."
           
          The article starts: "I began collecting HO trains about thrity years ago.  At the time I had no experience with any of the other gauges.  I have found HO to be very available, affordable, and a nice size to store, display, and work with."
           
          It goes on to describe an 11-by-20 foot layout based on the UP and BN in the 1966 time frame.
           
          It says "...Carol and I do feel that the TCA is working to carve out a niche for HO and N collectors."
           
          and
           
          "If one looks through The Train Collectors Quartely (TCQ) there are occasionally a few articles for HO and N gauguers.  With that being said, we need the help of you who operate and collect these gauges to write articles and send pictures."
           
          The article ends"
           
          "Please remember that an organization cannot survive and grow unless it changes periodically to meet changing needs.  I feel that the TCA really needs to seriously begin speaking all guages Standard, O, S, HO, and N."
           
          The following comment is added after that:
           
          "Carol concludes:  So, who is ready to take up this challenge?  Take some pictures of your HO or N gauge layout and add some details about how you decided to set it up, or what was your inspiration and you'll have an article ready for submission to the TCQ".
           
          Soooo.  I  know there are folks on this list with some very interesting items, collections, and stories.  Here is somebody asking for them.
           
          And come to think of it, "Train Collectors Association" is, in fact, a broad term.
           
          Chuck Kinzer
           
           
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21256 From: roger_aultman Date: 7/4/2013
          Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
          --
          My take on TCA is a bunch of opportunists offering percieved vintage H-0 at vastly inflated prices on eBay. Roger Aultman.



          -- ckinzer@... wrote:

          =============
          The "Train Collectors Quarterly" is the magazine of the Train Collectors Association (TCA). This organization is usually (always?) thought of in terms O tinplate trains whether standard gauge, O, or S.

          In the Jul 2013 issue there is an article "The State of an HO Collector" authored by Carol R. McGinnis and Glen Roe (both TCA members as am I).

          The TCA president writes this before the article starts: "...there have been several people for several years at the Division and Chapter level who have been talking about HO and N gauge collectors..."

          The article starts: "I began collecting HO trains about thrity years ago. At the time I had no experience with any of the other gauges. I have found HO to be very available, affordable, and a nice size to store, display, and work with."

          It goes on to describe an 11-by-20 foot layout based on the UP and BN in the 1966 time frame.

          It says "...Carol and I do feel that the TCA is working to carve out a niche for HO and N collectors."

          and

          "If one looks through The Train Collectors Quartely (TCQ) there are occasionally a few articles for HO and N gauguers. With that being said, we need the help of you who operate and collect these gauges to write articles and send pictures."

          The article ends"

          "Please remember that an organization cannot survive and grow unless it changes periodically to meet changing needs. I feel that the TCA really needs to seriously begin speaking all guages Standard, O, S, HO, and N."

          The following comment is added after that:

          "Carol concludes: So, who is ready to take up this challenge? Take some pictures of your HO or N gauge layout and add some details about how you decided to set it up, or what was your inspiration and you'll have an article ready for submission to the TCQ".

          Soooo. I know there are folks on this list with some very interesting items, collections, and stories. Here is somebody asking for them.

          And come to think of it, "Train Collectors Association" is, in fact, a broad term.

          Chuck Kinzer
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21257 From: Glen Wasson Date: 7/4/2013
          Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
          But they mostly sell to each other.

          Armchair


          From: "raul@..." <raul@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: ckinzer@...
          Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 12:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles

           

          --
          My take on TCA is a bunch of opportunists offering percieved vintage H-0 at vastly inflated prices on eBay. Roger Aultman.

          -- ckinzer@... wrote:

          =============
          The "Train Collectors Quarterly" is the magazine of the Train Collectors Association (TCA). This organization is usually (always?) thought of in terms O tinplate trains whether standard gauge, O, or S.

          In the Jul 2013 issue there is an article "The State of an HO Collector" authored by Carol R. McGinnis and Glen Roe (both TCA members as am I).

          The TCA president writes this before the article starts: "...there have been several people for several years at the Division and Chapter level who have been talking about HO and N gauge collectors..."

          The article starts: "I began collecting HO trains about thrity years ago. At the time I had no experience with any of the other gauges. I have found HO to be very available, affordable, and a nice size to store, display, and work with."

          It goes on to describe an 11-by-20 foot layout based on the UP and BN in the 1966 time frame.

          It says "...Carol and I do feel that the TCA is working to carve out a niche for HO and N collectors."

          and

          "If one looks through The Train Collectors Quartely (TCQ) there are occasionally a few articles for HO and N gauguers. With that being said, we need the help of you who operate and collect these gauges to write articles and send pictures."

          The article ends"

          "Please remember that an organization cannot survive and grow unless it changes periodically to meet changing needs. I feel that the TCA really needs to seriously begin speaking all guages Standard, O, S, HO, and N."

          The following comment is added after that:

          "Carol concludes: So, who is ready to take up this challenge? Take some pictures of your HO or N gauge layout and add some details about how you decided to set it up, or what was your inspiration and you'll have an article ready for submission to the TCQ".

          Soooo. I know there are folks on this list with some very interesting items, collections, and stories. Here is somebody asking for them.

          And come to think of it, "Train Collectors Association" is, in fact, a broad term.

          Chuck Kinzer



          Group: vintageHO Message: 21258 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 7/4/2013
          Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
          If there are folks out there that want to learn more about H0, and Vintage H0, and operating vintage H0, why not welcome them? Are we afraid perhaps that prices will go up? Maybe they will, and sellers among us will benefit, while buyers will feel the pinch. But maybe VintageH0 will grow! That's good, isn't it? I for one don't doubt it. I might even join the TCA if they get more into vintage H0.

          Walter
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21259 From: roger_aultman Date: 7/4/2013
          Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
          --
          I can assure you they do not well to me. Roger Aultman


          -- Glen Wasson <gdwasson@...> wrote:

          =============
          But they mostly sell to each other.

          Armchair




          ________________________________
          From: "raul@..." <raul@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: ckinzer@...
          Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 12:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles



           

          --
          My take on TCA is a bunch of opportunists offering percieved vintage H-0 at vastly inflated prices on eBay. Roger Aultman.

          -- ckinzer@... wrote:

          =============
          The "Train Collectors Quarterly" is the magazine of the Train Collectors Association (TCA). This organization is usually (always?) thought of in terms O tinplate trains whether standard gauge, O, or S.

          In the Jul 2013 issue there is an article "The State of an HO Collector" authored by Carol R. McGinnis and Glen Roe (both TCA members as am I).

          The TCA president writes this before the article starts: "...there have been several people for several years at the Division and Chapter level who have been talking about HO and N gauge collectors..."

          The article starts: "I began collecting HO trains about thrity years ago. At the time I had no experience with any of the other gauges. I have found HO to be very available, affordable, and a nice size to store, display, and work with."

          It goes on to describe an 11-by-20 foot layout based on the UP and BN in the 1966 time frame.

          It says "...Carol and I do feel that the TCA is working to carve out a niche for HO and N collectors."

          and

          "If one looks through The Train Collectors Quartely (TCQ) there are occasionally a few articles for HO and N gauguers. With that being said, we need the help of you who operate and collect these gauges to write articles and send pictures."

          The article ends"

          "Please remember that an organization cannot survive and grow unless it changes periodically to meet changing needs. I feel that the TCA really needs to seriously begin speaking all guages Standard, O, S, HO, and N."

          The following comment is added after that:

          "Carol concludes: So, who is ready to take up this challenge? Take some pictures of your HO or N gauge layout and add some details about how you decided to set it up, or what was your inspiration and you'll have an article ready for submission to the TCQ".

          Soooo. I know there are folks on this list with some very interesting items, collections, and stories. Here is somebody asking for them.

          And come to think of it, "Train Collectors Association" is, in fact, a broad term.

          Chuck Kinzer
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21260 From: Dale Smith Date: 7/5/2013
          Subject: Re: The Train Collectors Quarterly is soliciting HO articles
          Collecting trains about more than simply trying to see who dies with the most toys obtained at the lowest prices possible.  I am a TCA member and the one thing that the TCA excels at is scholarship.   There are articles in the TCA quarterly that explore aspects of the hobby that other publications wouldn't dream of covering.  The archive of that publication, available online to members, is a vast storehouse of knowledge.

          My initial interest was American Flyer S gauge, but I got interested in Vintage HO through exploring Gilbert HO, which in turn led me to start collecting other vintage HO, such as Varney, Athearn, and Revell.

          I know that the TCA has a reputation for being a bit stuffy and bureaucratic
          , and while I don't want to get involved in that myself, I have come to the conclusion that it makes possible the excellent publica
          tions such as the TCQ.  

          As to the prices of vintage HO, I don't think that articles about HO in the TCQ will raise prices.   Items will continue to sell for what buyers are willing to pay.   There will always be sellers who think their wares are worth exorbitant prices and TCA membership isn't required for that.

          Dale Smith

          On 7/4/2013 12:24 PM, raul@... wrote:
           


          --
          My take on TCA is a bunch of opportunists offering percieved vintage H-0 at vastly inflated prices on eBay. Roger Aultman.

          -- ckinzer@... wrote:

          =============
          The "Train Collectors Quarterly" is the magazine of the Train Collectors Association (TCA). This organization is usually (always?) thought of in terms O tinplate trains whether standard gauge, O, or S.

          In the Jul 2013 issue there is an article "The State of an HO Collector" authored by Carol R. McGinnis and Glen Roe (both TCA members as am I).

          The TCA president writes this before the article starts: "...there have been several people for several years at the Division and Chapter level who have been talking about HO and N gauge collectors..."

          The article starts: "I began collecting HO trains about thrity years ago. At the time I had no experience with any of the other gauges. I have found HO to be very available, affordable, and a nice size to store, display, and work with."

          It goes on to describe an 11-by-20 foot layout based on the UP and BN in the 1966 time frame.

          It says "...Carol and I do feel that the TCA is working to carve out a niche for HO and N collectors."

          and

          "If one looks through The Train Collectors Quartely (TCQ) there are occasionally a few articles for HO and N gauguers. With that being said, we need the help of you who operate and collect these gauges to write articles and send pictures."

          The article ends"

          "Please remember that an organization cannot survive and grow unless it changes periodically to meet changing needs. I feel that the TCA really needs to seriously begin speaking all guages Standard, O, S, HO, and N."

          The following comment is added after that:

          "Carol concludes: So, who is ready to take up this challenge? Take some pictures of your HO or N gauge layout and add some details about how you decided to set it up, or what was your inspiration and you'll have an article ready for submission to the TCQ".

          Soooo. I know there are folks on this list with some very interesting items, collections, and stories. Here is somebody asking for them.

          And come to think of it, "Train Collectors Association" is, in fact, a broad term.

          Chuck Kinzer


          Group: vintageHO Message: 21261 From: Willard Seehorn Date: 7/8/2013
          Subject: Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
          My wife has a business trip to Quincy, MA this Friday. I'll be
          tagging along. She has to work, I get to play!. We will be there
          Saturday -- Thursday. I won't have a car, so will be dependant on
          public transportation.

          Any good hobby shops/railroad (or model railroad) related points of
          interest? What about non railroad items?

          Thanks

          Willard.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21262 From: tom leen Date: 7/8/2013
          Subject: Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
          Hi Willard,
          In response to your question, there's nothing in the immediate vicinity of Quincy, MA.  The closest train/hobby shop is Bill's Friendly Train Shop in Rockland, MA.  The drawback is that it's not accessible by public transportation.  If you were coming another time I'd be able to show you around, am going away for vacation Saturday.  One other place of interest is the South Shore Model Railroad (Railway) Club in Hingham.  Their website is ssmrc.org.  I don't know their hours of operation though.  They do have certain nights that they run the trains, maybe you could contact them and see if they'd invite you to visit for the evening.  See if one of the members would be able to drive to Quincy to get you and back.  The commuter bus doesn't run late.  They have members from all over the south shore.  A model train shop that is available by public transportation is Charles Ro in Malden, MA.  It's a little bit of a schlep from Quincy, you'd have to take the subway (Red Line) from Quincy into Boston and switch to the Orange Line to get to Malden.  A good place to people watch with trains is Boston's South Station.  It's on the same subway line (Red Line) that serves Quincy.  You go upstairs and you're in the terminal for the New York/Washington DC Amtrak trains.  The commuter rail also terminates here.  Sorry I'm not available myself.
          Tom

          From: Willard Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
          To: On30conspiracy@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: ATSF@yahoogroups.com; DeadRailSociety@yahoogroups.com; vintageho@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 11:48 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
           
          My wife has a business trip to Quincy, MA this Friday. I'll be
          tagging along. She has to work, I get to play!. We will be there
          Saturday -- Thursday. I won't have a car, so will be dependant on
          public transportation.

          Any good hobby shops/railroad (or model railroad) related points of
          interest? What about non railroad items?

          Thanks

          Willard.

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21263 From: cwrailman Date: 7/10/2013
          Subject: Mantua 8 Balls for sale

          I thought I would give the folks on this board first chance on these.  I have a couple of Mantua 8 Balls for sale.  I will include two made in the USA Pitman open frame motors in working condition if someone on this board purchases these. Check out my CWRailman Hobby Shop page to see these as well as some other vintage kits I have for sale.  If nobody is interested I will list them on Ebay.

          There are also several repowering projects of vintage locomotives on the Projects page that you might find interesting.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21264 From: cwrailman Date: 7/11/2013
          Subject: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation

          I am looking for help in identifying a small vintage brass locomotive that followed me home from a sale on Saturday.  I've posted some pictures under the heading Need HELP in Identifying this Locomotive in my 07/11/2013 Blog as well as what information I have about the model and hope someone has some idea who made this thing.  I did not find it listed in the brass book so…….

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21265 From: Richard Dipping Date: 7/11/2013
          Subject: Re: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation
          Denny-
           
          Looks like a Brass Bettsy.  I think these were sold by a company called Great Western.  I remember seeing ads in old issues of MR ( early to mid '50s I guess ).
           
          Richard.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...>
          To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:34 pm
          Subject: [vintageHO] Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation



          I am looking for help in identifying a small vintage brass locomotive that followed me home from a sale on Saturday.  I've posted some pictures under the heading Need HELP in Identifying this Locomotive in my 07/11/2013 Blog as well as what information I have about the model and hope someone has some idea who made this thing.  I did not find it listed in the brass book so…….
          Denny
          Janitor in Training
          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          WEB site: CWRailman.com 
          Facebook: CWRailman 

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21266 From: cwrailman Date: 7/11/2013
          Subject: Re: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation

          Thank you Richard

          I believe that is exactly what it is with the upgraded brass chassis.  Tom Bell was able to supply me with a link to someone restoring one which includes much of the history about the model.

          http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/12280-brass-betsy-for-pennsylvanian-shortline/page-2#entry403774

          I can now start stripping the paint to see exactly what I have here.  Then the question of restoration or modification?

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping wrote:
          >
          >
          > Denny-
          >
          > Looks like a Brass Bettsy. I think these were sold by a company called Great Western. I remember seeing ads in old issues of MR ( early to mid '50s I guess ).
          >
          > Richard.
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: cwrailman cwrailman@...
          > To: vintageHO vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:34 pm
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I am looking for help in identifying a small vintage brass locomotive that followed me home from a sale on Saturday. I've posted some pictures under the heading Need HELP in Identifying this Locomotive in my 07/11/2013 Blog as well as what information I have about the model and hope someone has some idea who made this thing. I did not find it listed in the brass book so…….
          > Denny
          > Janitor in Training
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com
          > Facebook: CWRailman
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21267 From: cwrailman Date: 7/11/2013
          Subject: Re: Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage brass Consolidation

          With the manufactures name, Great Western, (thank you Richard) I found that the Brass Betsy as it was called was first advertised in the July 1950 issue of Model Railroader and again one more time that year.   I went through all the 1950-1951 MR's and could not find that it was ever featured in their Trade Topics.  That may be why Great Western did not spend a lot of money on advertising in MR.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 


          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
          >
          >
          > Thank you Richard
          >
          > I believe that is exactly what it is with the upgraded brass chassis.
          > Tom Bell was able to supply me with a link to someone restoring one
          > which includes much of the history about the model.
          >
          > http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/12280-brass-betsy-for-\
          > pennsylvanian-shortline/page-2#entry403774
          > > -pennsylvanian-shortline/page-2#entry403774>
          >
          > I can now start stripping the paint to see exactly what I have here.
          > Then the question of restoration or modification?
          >
          > Denny
          >
          > Janitor in Training
          >
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          >
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com
          > Facebook: CWRailman
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Denny-
          > >
          > > Looks like a Brass Bettsy. I think these were sold by a company called
          > Great Western. I remember seeing ads in old issues of MR ( early to mid
          > '50s I guess ).
          > >
          > > Richard.
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@
          > > To: vintageHO vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:34 pm
          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Need HELP! In identifying this small vintage
          > brass Consolidation
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I am looking for help in identifying a small vintage brass locomotive
          > that followed me home from a sale on Saturday. I've posted some pictures
          > under the heading Need HELP in Identifying this Locomotive in my
          > 07/11/2013 Blog as well as what information I have about the model and
          > hope someone has some idea who made this thing. I did not find it listed
          > in the brass book so…….
          > > Denny
          > > Janitor in Training
          > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          > > WEB site: CWRailman.com
          > > Facebook: CWRailman
          > >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21268 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 7/15/2013
          Subject: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads

          What is next? A new concept in streetcars!

             click on:


          > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=t1gTzc7-IbQ&feature=player_embedded
          >
          Walter

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21269 From: Mike Bauers Date: 7/15/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          It's good to see that they are still working on the design. The new video is much better than what they released a few years ago.

          It certainly looks like the idea would work well.


          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:


          What is next? A new concept in streetcars!

             click on:


          > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=t1gTzc7-IbQ&feature=player_embedded
          >
          Walter

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21270 From: Rick Steele Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          If you're going to spend that kind of money, why not just build an "El" or Elevated Railway? Judging by the infrastructure need for this Chinese concept, and El would probably be cheaper and serve their needs just as well.

          Rick
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21271 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          The usual objection to the El, which carries a lot of weight, is the overhead structure that darkens everything below it, and blocks the windows along side it.

          Modern Els are less noisy, at least, so that objection is less of a problem.

          Another objection is the support columns that are deemed to create a road hazard.

          Walter

          On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Rick Steele <rntsteele@...> wrote:
           

          If you're going to spend that kind of money, why not just build an "El" or Elevated Railway? Judging by the infrastructure need for this Chinese concept, and El would probably be cheaper and serve their needs just as well.

          Rick

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21272 From: John H Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          Like the old saying, "Looks good on paper but will it work?" My guess is no. All this depends on drivers driving exactly like they are supposed to with out any instant lane swapping, overly aggressive driving, road rage and just plain stupidity. In a perfect world maybe but then in a prefect world we wouldn't have such traffic jams to begin with. My guess is that it would be knocked out of service for varying periods of time about two - three times weekly due to crashes caused by auto and truck drivers.

          Then there is the logistics of finding the required space for the added width to our current roadways and for the stations in urban areas. Yes, that is the same for current light rail systems but my thoughts are that it will take as much roadway space as light rail and have a bigger problem with the stations. And, as long as one were to invest very heavily in such an enterprise would it not be about the same or even cheaper to use established technology and build subways in the urban areas and leave to topography as pretty much as it is? Even an El would take up less roadway.

          And another thing, why the hell can't I spell raodway correct the first time?

          John Hagen

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:
          >
          > What is next? A new concept in streetcars!
          >
          > click on:****
          >
          >
          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=t1gTzc7-IbQ&feature=player_embedded
          > >
          > Walter
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21273 From: Dale Smith Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          I agree.  Nice idea, but some things that look great in animation might not be possible.   When this thing took the curves in the animation, it bent like it was made of rubber and even snapped back to straight.   How will they do that and even if they can what about the people on the inside?   Do they get squished?   That evacuation looked a bit iffy too, right into the middle of the accident or the street traffic.  

          Dale Smith
          On 7/16/2013 9:05 AM, John H wrote:
           

          Like the old saying, "Looks good on paper but will it work?" My guess is no.


          Group: vintageHO Message: 21274 From: Jim Waterman Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          Looks like its made of rubber when it makes turns. How do they do that?

          Jim Waterman

          Sent from my iPad
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21275 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          This is off topic fellows, let's let it die.

          Thanks

          Don
          Don Dellmann
          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



          On 7/16/2013 12:49 PM, Dale Smith wrote:
          I agree.  Nice idea, but some things that look great in animation might not be possible.   When this thing took the curves in the animation, it bent like it was made of rubber and even snapped back to straight.   How will they do that and even if they can what about the people on the inside?   Do they get squished?   That evacuation looked a bit iffy too, right into the middle of the accident or the street traffic.  

          Dale Smith
          On 7/16/2013 9:05 AM, John H wrote:
           

          Like the old saying, "Looks good on paper but will it work?" My guess is no.




          -- 
          
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21276 From: shawmut_fan Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads
          Agree with Don.

          John B. Allyn


          From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:02:04 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Chinese AIR-BUS plans over congested roads

           

          This is off topic fellows, let's let it die.

          Thanks

          Don
          Don Dellmann
          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



          On 7/16/2013 12:49 PM, Dale Smith wrote:
          I agree.  Nice idea, but some things that look great in animation might not be possible.   When this thing took the curves in the animation, it bent like it was made of rubber and even snapped back to straight.   How will they do that and even if they can what about the people on the inside?   Do they get squished?   That evacuation looked a bit iffy too, right into the middle of the accident or the street traffic.  

          Dale Smith
          On 7/16/2013 9:05 AM, John H wrote:
           

          Like the old saying, "Looks good on paper but will it work?" My guess is no.




          -- 
          

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21277 From: cwrailman Date: 7/16/2013
          Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball plus 1947 Mantua HO Handbook for sale

          I found another Mantua 8 Ball plus a Mantua H O Handbook from 1947.  I now have these two items grouped for sale. Check out my CWRailman Hobby Shop page to see this 8 Ball and the Handbook.  I thought I would give the folks on this board first chance at these items.  If interested please contact me off line.

          Thanks for the folks who showed an interest in the previous Mantua 8 Ball loco's I had for sale.  Those have now been sold and are on their way to the new owner. 

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
          >
          >
          > I thought I would give the folks on this board first chance on these. I
          > have a couple of Mantua 8 Balls for sale. I will include two made in
          > the USA Pitman open frame motors in working condition if someone on this
          > board purchases these. Check out my CWRailman Hobby Shop page
          > to see these as well as some other vintage
          > kits I have for sale. If nobody is interested I will list them on Ebay.
          >
          > There are also several repowering projects of vintage locomotives on the
          > Projects page that you might find interesting.
          >
          > Denny
          >
          > Janitor in Training
          >
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          >
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com
          > Facebook: CWRailman
          >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21278 From: Willard Seehorn Date: 7/17/2013
          Subject: Re: [On30conspiracy] Quincy, MA
          Hi Tom,

          Thanks for the advice. I didn't get a chance to get up to Charles Ro
          or to the club. Did enjoy the Subway & South Station.

          Willard

          At 09:38 PM 7/8/2013, you wrote:


          >Hi Willard,
          >In response to your question, there's nothing in the immediate
          >vicinity of Quincy, MA. The closest train/hobby shop is Bill's
          >Friendly Train Shop in Rockland, MA. The drawback is that it's not
          >accessible by public transportation. If you were coming another
          >time I'd be able to show you around, am going away for vacation
          >Saturday. One other place of interest is the South Shore Model
          >Railroad (Railway) Club in Hingham. Their website is ssmrc.org. I
          >don't know their hours of operation though. They do have certain
          >nights that they run the trains, maybe you could contact them and
          >see if they'd invite you to visit for the evening. See if one of
          >the members would be able to drive to Quincy to get you and
          >back. The commuter bus doesn't run late. They have members from
          >all over the south shore. A model train shop that is available by
          >public transportation is Charles Ro in Malden, MA. It's a little
          >bit of a schlep from Quincy, you'd have to take the subway (Red
          >Line) from Quincy into Boston and switch to the Orange Line to get
          >to Malden. A good place to people watch with trains is Boston's
          >South Station. It's on the same subway line (Red Line) that serves
          >Quincy. You go upstairs and you're in the terminal for the New
          >York/Washington DC Amtrak trains. The commuter rail also terminates
          >here. Sorry I'm not available myself.
          >Tom
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21279 From: cwrailman Date: 7/18/2013
          Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball plus 1947 Mantua HO Handbook for sale

          Thank you folks for your interest, these items have found a new home. 

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
          >
          >
          > I found another Mantua 8 Ball plus a Mantua H O Handbook from 1947. I
          > now have these two items grouped for sale. Check out my CWRailman Hobby
          > Shop page to see this 8 Ball
          > and the Handbook. I thought I would give the folks on this board first
          > chance at these items. If interested please contact me off line.
          >
          > Thanks for the folks who showed an interest in the previous Mantua 8
          > Ball loco's I had for sale. Those have now been sold and are on
          > their way to the new owner.
          >
          > Denny
          >
          > Janitor in Training
          >
          > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          >
          > WEB site: CWRailman.com
          > Facebook: CWRailman
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I thought I would give the folks on this board first chance on these.
          > I
          > > have a couple of Mantua 8 Balls for sale. I will include two made in
          > > the USA Pitman open frame motors in working condition if someone on
          > this
          > > board purchases these. Check out my CWRailman Hobby Shop page
          > > to see these as well as some other vintage
          > > kits I have for sale. If nobody is interested I will list them on
          > Ebay.
          > >
          > > There are also several repowering projects of vintage locomotives on
          > the
          > > Projects page that you might find interesting.
          > >
          > > Denny
          > >
          > > Janitor in Training
          > >
          > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops
          > >
          > > WEB site: CWRailman.com
          > > Facebook: CWRailman
          > >
          > >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21280 From: cwrailman Date: 7/18/2013
          Subject: American Flyer Hudson available

          If anyone is interested in obtaining an American Flyer H O scale Hudson please contact me off line.  I know where one in good condition can be purchased for $100.  I will put you in contact with the seller.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21281 From: cwrailman Date: 7/18/2013
          Subject: Reworking a Vintage 1950's era Brass 0-4-0

          Another loco that followed us home from our local hobby shops "backroom" sale resulted in this Remotoring and Regearing of a Vintage 1950's era brass 0-4-0 project.  O ur CW Loco and Car Rebuild shop crew replaced the original motor, but retained the original metal gears and did a few test runs.  Then the original gears were changed out with a set of repurposed gears from a KTM idler gear box.  Check out the video at the end to see and hear the difference changing the gear made in the performance of this loco.  A few of you may have some of these early brass models in your collections. I'm still not sure but I believe this may have been an early Ken Kidder model.

          Some of you may also find interest in the remotoring of the Bachman 4-4-0 that we did earlier in the month.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21282 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 7/18/2013
          Subject: Re: Reworking a Vintage 1950's era Brass 0-4-0
          YES, you can certainly take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse.  I have just seen it.  That 0-4-0 can be turned into a B&O C16a without too much trouble.  Just take off the cow catcher and add valve gear.  I am not aware of any switchers that had cow catcher pilots.  At first looking at the smoke box front, I was going to say that is a "New One" or an "International" models, but the fact that it has a decent air pump, I doubt it is one of those.  
          I have a couple of brass switchers, a Gem A5s and I suspect "New One" 0-6-0.  I was able to get the original motors to work really nicely.  I may still put a new motor in the 0-6-0, but that A5s just does not lend itself to an easy or even a difficult motor swap.  I was able to get really good motor characteristics out of the original with some good cleaning, lube and tuning, so I am not afraid to put a DCC decoder in it.  It draws very little current at full out with no load on  the engine, it pulls about 300 ma.  
          Thanks for showing us this stuff. It is really helpful.
          Regards,  

          Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          From: cwrailman@...
          Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:32:08 +0000
          Subject: [vintageHO] Reworking a Vintage 1950's era Brass 0-4-0

           

          Another loco that followed us home from our local hobby shops "backroom" sale resulted in this Remotoring and Regearing of a Vintage 1950's era brass 0-4-0 project.  O ur CW Loco and Car Rebuild shop crew replaced the original motor, but retained the original metal gears and did a few test runs.  Then the original gears were changed out with a set of repurposed gears from a KTM idler gear box.  Check out the video at the end to see and hear the difference changing the gear made in the performance of this loco.  A few of you may have some of these early brass models in your collections. I'm still not sure but I believe this may have been an early Ken Kidder model.

          Some of you may also find interest in the remotoring of the Bachman 4-4-0 that we did earlier in the month.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21283 From: nico Date: 7/21/2013
          Subject: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
          I know a guy that has for sale a Varney Streamlined Hudson, but it needs a tender and motor. I may be able to order a motor from Bowser (a brand new Pittman DC-71), but which worm would it need (the worm from a 4-8-2 or 4-8-4, or from a Penn Line locomotive?)? I'd really like to get my hands on streamlined locomotives, and with it's weight, this seems to fit the bill.

          On another note, would a Mantua Tender suit it's electrical pick-up needs?
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21284 From: erieberk Date: 7/22/2013
          Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
          Nico,

          Jump on this Varney engine if it's the right price; they're great pullers and the Pittman motor makes them decent runners. If this Streamlined Hudson comes with its original mainframe, this frame should have a factory-installed main axle and drive gear. This drive gear for the Varney Streamlined Hudson is (part #1335) Gear - 29 Teeth - 64 Pitch. You can't just use any worm gear from another engine and hope that it will mesh properly with this main/driven gear. You'll need a Varney (part #1488) Worm Gear - 64 Pitch - Single Thread -- with a 3/32" bore, or the equivilent of the same.

          When installing it, slip it on the motor shaft and install the assembly onto the engine mainframe. Then spot-solder the worm gear onto the shaft, with a damp (not wet) cloth on the shaft between the worm and the commutator. Remove the motor and worm from the mainframe and finish soldering if needed, keeping the damp cloth in place. This will assure the best alignment without having to adjust the motor very much further, if at all, when you reinstall it.

          Yes, a Mantua or any other tender having insulated wheels on one side and uninsulated wheels on the opposite side of your engine's uninsulated wheels, with a fiber drawbar, should work. Try to find something similar in style to your streamlined engine for best appearance, if possible.

          Ray Wetzel



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nico" <trainguru@...> wrote:
          >
          > I know a guy that has for sale a Varney Streamlined Hudson, but it needs a tender and motor. I may be able to order a motor from Bowser (a brand new Pittman DC-71), but which worm would it need (the worm from a 4-8-2 or 4-8-4, or from a Penn Line locomotive?)? I'd really like to get my hands on streamlined locomotives, and with it's weight, this seems to fit the bill.
          >
          > On another note, would a Mantua Tender suit it's electrical pick-up needs?
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21285 From: Richard Date: 7/24/2013
          Subject: More on Mantua 8 Ball
          Hi to Denny and all,
          While thumbing thru some very old Model Railroader magazines, I came across a timley article "Detailing the Belle of the 80's", by T. G. Busack, in the January 1958 issue, (" Make Mantua's
          4-4-0 more authentic looking by adding extra detail"). Email me off list if interested.
          Richard in Vermont
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21286 From: Richard Date: 7/24/2013
          Subject: More on Mantua 8 Ball
          Hi to Denny and all,
          While thumbing thru some very old Model Railroader magazines, I came across a timley article "Detailing the Belle of the 80's", by T. G. Busack, in the January 1958 issue, (" Make Mantua's
          4-4-0 more authentic looking by adding extra detail"). Email me off list if interested.
          Richard in Vermont
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21287 From: cwrailman Date: 7/25/2013
          Subject: Re: More on Mantua 8 Ball

          Thank you Richard.  The 2-6-0 "8 Ball" locomotives that I offered for sale are all on their way to new homes.  That you all for your interest.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" wrote:
          >
          > Hi to Denny and all,
          > While thumbing thru some very old Model Railroader magazines, I came across a timley article "Detailing the Belle of the 80's", by T. G. Busack, in the January 1958 issue, (" Make Mantua's
          > 4-4-0 more authentic looking by adding extra detail"). Email me off list if interested.
          > Richard in Vermont
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21288 From: nico Date: 7/25/2013
          Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
          >
          > Nico,
          >
          > Jump on this Varney engine if it's the right price; they're great pullers and the Pittman motor makes them decent runners. If this Streamlined Hudson comes with its original mainframe, this frame should have a factory-installed main axle and drive gear. This drive gear for the Varney Streamlined Hudson is (part #1335) Gear - 29 Teeth - 64 Pitch. You can't just use any worm gear from another engine and hope that it will mesh properly with this main/driven gear. You'll need a Varney (part #1488) Worm Gear - 64 Pitch - Single Thread -- with a 3/32" bore, or the equivilent of the same.
          >
          > When installing it, slip it on the motor shaft and install the assembly onto the engine mainframe. Then spot-solder the worm gear onto the shaft, with a damp (not wet) cloth on the shaft between the worm and the commutator. Remove the motor and worm from the mainframe and finish soldering if needed, keeping the damp cloth in place. This will assure the best alignment without having to adjust the motor very much further, if at all, when you reinstall it.
          >
          > Yes, a Mantua or any other tender having insulated wheels on one side and uninsulated wheels on the opposite side of your engine's uninsulated wheels, with a fiber drawbar, should work. Try to find something similar in style to your streamlined engine for best appearance, if possible.
          >
          > Ray Wetzel
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nico" <trainguru@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I know a guy that has for sale a Varney Streamlined Hudson, but it needs a tender and motor. I may be able to order a motor from Bowser (a brand new Pittman DC-71), but which worm would it need (the worm from a 4-8-2 or 4-8-4, or from a Penn Line locomotive?)? I'd really like to get my hands on streamlined locomotives, and with it's weight, this seems to fit the bill.
          > >
          > > On another note, would a Mantua Tender suit it's electrical pick-up needs?
          > >
          >

          I see your point sir. However, Bowser did continue to make Varney Parts. What I'm asking is, was the worm from Varney's stuff, given a new part number under Bowser?
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21289 From: Ed Date: 7/25/2013
          Subject: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          What is it? ebay item #300936296760
          I just won this eBay auction for a strange model. It's a conversion of an HO tank switcher to HOn3. Nice machining job of narrowing the driver tread to HOn3. But being of standard gauge proportions it is oversize for a good looking HOn3 loco of that wheel arrangement.
          I uploaded 2 ebay pics to a new folder, Weldon's stuff. My questions are: What is the original HO model? Who made it? What did they call it? Check the couplers..... Is it of European origin?
          I plan to split it up. Use the chassis for HOn3 and the superstructure on something HO standard gauge. So I'm really wondering about that superstructure. It's a nice die casting and reminisent of something you might find in a turn of the century steel mill pushing an open top hot metal car or slag car around. (except for the stack. It needs a PSC cap stack for a coal burner.)
          Ed Weldon
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21290 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 7/25/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          Couplers are British design, look like Tri-Ang stamped metal, I have some British stock from the '60s-'70s with the same couplers. Frame might - might - be a Varney or older Life-Like 0-4-0 with the Tri-Ang couplers screwed in. My Tri-Angs have couplers staked onto a metal frame, not using a screw. Water tanks look vaguely British too, almost like a Pannier Tank, but none of the other details look British at all.

          Could be a freelance design based off one of the tank engines America exported to the UK during WWI.

          Interesting locomotive for sure!



          From: Ed <23.weldon@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:00 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO

           
          What is it? ebay item #300936296760
          I just won this eBay auction for a strange model. It's a conversion of an HO tank switcher to HOn3. Nice machining job of narrowing the driver tread to HOn3. But being of standard gauge proportions it is oversize for a good looking HOn3 loco of that wheel arrangement.
          I uploaded 2 ebay pics to a new folder, Weldon's stuff. My questions are: What is the original HO model? Who made it? What did they call it? Check the couplers..... Is it of European origin?
          I plan to split it up. Use the chassis for HOn3 and the superstructure on something HO standard gauge. So I'm really wondering about that superstructure. It's a nice die casting and reminisent of something you might find in a turn of the century steel mill pushing an open top hot metal car or slag car around. (except for the stack. It needs a PSC cap stack for a coal burner.)
          Ed Weldon



          Group: vintageHO Message: 21291 From: Ed Date: 7/25/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          Stephen - Thanks for your observations. The mystery remains. But a UK origin seems a distinct possibiity. I'll soon enough have it in my hands. The photo looks like a die casting. But why would the Brits have invested in a steel die casting die representing an American loco? Unless there was a time some decades past when the UK market for "toy electric trains" was interested in low cost american "Wild West" prototypes. Could it be that some later day British fan of US narrow gauge (there are a few) picked this as a first attempt at HOn3 motive power. The frame retainer plate shows signs of careful but definitely hand work to produce cutouts for the drivers. Also the main rod, crossheads and piston rods don't look like any early American mass produced model like Mantua, Varney or Roundhouse.
          Ed Weldon

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
          > Couplers are British design, look like Tri-Ang stamped metal, I have some British stock from the '60s-'70s with the same couplers. Frame might - might - be a Varney or older Life-Like 0-4-0 with the Tri-Ang couplers screwed in. My Tri-Angs have couplers staked onto a metal frame, not using a screw. Water tanks look vaguely British too, almost like a Pannier Tank, but none of the other details look British at all.
          > Could be a freelance design based off one of the tank engines America exported to the UK during WWI.
          > Interesting locomotive for sure!

          > ________________________________
          > From: Ed <23.weldon@...>
          > Subject: [vintageHO] 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          > What is it? ebay item #300936296760
          > I just won this eBay auction for a strange model. ......
          > I uploaded 2 ebay pics to a new folder, Weldon's stuff. My questions are: What is the original HO model? Who made it? What did they call it? Check the couplers..... Is it of European origin?
          ..... Ed Weldon
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21292 From: tom bell Date: 7/25/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          I would suspect it is a "New One" or similar Japanese built model from the 50's. Don't know this particular one, but the construction is the same as the ones I have seen.

          The same model was made in plastic in the 70's - I have one somewhere. Can't remember who did it then, but it was one of the cheaper makes at the time like Lifelike or Model Power.

          The couplers are indeed British, but if it where a British conversion would almost certainly be for British OOn3 (12mm) gauge rather than HOn3 (10.5mm) gauge.

          Tom
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21293 From: Mike Bauers Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          While I'm not sure of the source, I'm certain that this model is what Lifelike [Hong Kong ?] copied to make their plastic bodied old-time 0-4-0t for the last 40 years or so. I think I saw this diecast version in the old Sutton model railroad book of the 70's.

          I wonder if they somehow got the original die-cast dies and used them for the plastic model?

          Best to ya...
          Mike Bauers
          Milwaukee, Wi, USA



          On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:00 PM, "Ed" <23.weldon@...> wrote:

          > What is it? ebay item #300936296760
          > I just won this eBay auction for a strange model. It's a conversion of an HO tank switcher to HOn3. Nice machining job of narrowing the driver tread to HOn3. But being of standard gauge proportions it is oversize for a good looking HOn3 loco of that wheel arrangement.
          > I uploaded 2 ebay pics to a new folder, Weldon's stuff. My questions are: What is the original HO model? Who made it? What did they call it? Check the couplers..... Is it of European origin?
          > I plan to split it up. Use the chassis for HOn3 and the superstructure on something HO standard gauge. So I'm really wondering about that superstructure. It's a nice die casting and reminisent of something you might find in a turn of the century steel mill pushing an open top hot metal car or slag car around. (except for the stack. It needs a PSC cap stack for a coal burner.)
          > Ed Weldon
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21294 From: corlissbs Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          This post made me pull out my Life-Like 0-4-0 for comparison, from my tank engine collection.  There are a couple of details that are different, so I would say that it is not the exact molds, but a copy.  The sand dome is different (straight sides on the LL one) and the cab windows are completely different.  There is sash on the Life-Like model, but not on the die cast one and the door has a door knob on the LL one.  Everything else looks the same on the greatly oversized loco body.  LL added the cowcatcher  and of course, the mechanism is different.  The cylinders are different, but you can see that LL copied the original ones, just modified it for the crosshead guide. 
           
          Brad Smith
          Franklin,WI
           
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21295 From: 23weldon Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          Tom - You may well be right.  I did some careful measurements of the relevant parts of the two images I posted and concluded it was HOn3 before I placed my bids.  But I could still have been wrong.
          So too could have been the eBay seller.  Very often sellers who are not experienced model railroaders get the gauge and/or scale wrong in their descriptions.  This happens a lot when the source is an estate.
          Then there is the possibility that it was originally manufactured as a 4 mm scale 12mm gauge loco and then modified to HOn3 by shortening the axles and narrowing the frame.  The reason why I figure that is because the cutouts in the bottom retainer plate look more like the results of hand work with a file than the result of some purposeful design or production operation.
          I'll know soon enough when the shipment arrives.  Fortunately I don't have a lot invested in it.
          Thanks for your thoughts,   Ed Weldon
           
          The couplers are indeed British, but if it where a British conversion would almost certainly be for British OOn3 (12mm) gauge rather than HOn3 (10.5mm) gauge.
          Tom
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21296 From: bcpryor Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          Looks like Aristo-craft.

          Another one on Ebay: 221229983702

          Bruce

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <23.weldon@...> wrote:
          >
          > What is it? ebay item #300936296760
          > I just won this eBay auction for a strange model. It's a conversion of an HO tank switcher to HOn3. Nice machining job of narrowing the driver tread to HOn3. But being of standard gauge proportions it is oversize for a good looking HOn3 loco of that wheel arrangement.
          > I uploaded 2 ebay pics to a new folder, Weldon's stuff. My questions are: What is the original HO model? Who made it? What did they call it? Check the couplers..... Is it of European origin?
          > I plan to split it up. Use the chassis for HOn3 and the superstructure on something HO standard gauge. So I'm really wondering about that superstructure. It's a nice die casting and reminisent of something you might find in a turn of the century steel mill pushing an open top hot metal car or slag car around. (except for the stack. It needs a PSC cap stack for a coal burner.)
          > Ed Weldon
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21297 From: Nelson Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          It's a New One side tanker sold by either Silvine or Aristo Craft. I also notice from the shot of the underside that someone mounted a Rivarossi ball bearing motor in it, which was apparently a common repower at the time.

          http://tinyurl.com/ph4wbbc

          Nelson



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcpryor" <bcpryor@...> wrote:
          >
          > Looks like Aristo-craft.
          >
          > Another one on Ebay: 221229983702
          >
          > Bruce
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21298 From: reed.estabrook Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO
          This is the famous "Teakettle" sold by Silvane (I believe it was a B&O
          prototype). It was made in Japan, probably by "New One Models".
          Life-Like has made several versions of this in Hong-Kong and China. I
          have one in red-white-blue, numbered 1776, with a can motor in it.

          Reed


          ---- Original Message ----
          From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...>
          To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, Jul 26, 2013 3:16 pm
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 0-4-0T HOn3 conversion from HO






          It's a New One side tanker sold by either Silvine or Aristo Craft. I
          also notice from the shot of the underside that someone mounted a
          Rivarossi ball bearing motor in it, which was apparently a common
          repower at the time.

          http://tinyurl.com/ph4wbbc

          Nelson

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcpryor" <bcpryor@...> wrote:
          >
          > Looks like Aristo-craft.
          >
          > Another one on Ebay: 221229983702
          >
          > Bruce
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21299 From: erieberk Date: 7/26/2013
          Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
          Yes, Bowser did make a limited number of Varney parts, primarily for the
          Casey Jones Ten-Wheeler and the Old Lady Consolidation which they continued
          from Varney as kits. I don't believe that the main gear used for these two
          smaller Varney engines was the same as the main gear for Varney's larger
          engines. Therefore, It's doubtful that Bowser would have made main gears (or
          matching worm gears) for any of Varney's larger engines such as the Streamlined
          Hudson. Bowser never reproduced any other Varney engines except for the
          two mentioned, nor would they have a reason to make parts for any others.

          Ray F. W.</HTML>
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21300 From: nico Date: 7/27/2013
          Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote:
          >
          > Yes, Bowser did make a limited number of Varney parts, primarily for the
          > Casey Jones Ten-Wheeler and the Old Lady Consolidation which they continued
          > from Varney as kits. I don't believe that the main gear used for these two
          > smaller Varney engines was the same as the main gear for Varney's larger
          > engines. Therefore, It's doubtful that Bowser would have made main gears (or
          > matching worm gears) for any of Varney's larger engines such as the Streamlined
          > Hudson. Bowser never reproduced any other Varney engines except for the
          > two mentioned, nor would they have a reason to make parts for any others.
          >
          > Ray F. W.</HTML>
          >

          Does anybody here have a spare worm, or complete motor then?
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21301 From: nico Date: 7/27/2013
          Subject: Re: Motor and Worm for Varney Streamliner
          Okay, so does anybody have a spare motor with the worm?
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21303 From: Brent Date: 7/28/2013
          Subject: English Man needs help please
          Dear Friends,

          Could a body please indentify 2 items for me?

          ACF Center Flow BBCX 15690 Green Bevebel "Plastics Make Model Raildroading Fun!

          PS1 50' 9' Door CPIX 0709 Red "Carstens Pu8blications, Inc. Another Load of paper for Railroad Model Craftsman"

          As to the hopper i thought it was Athearn, but the "Standard Guide to Athearn Trains" does not list it.

          As to the boxcar, I have no idea.

          Can anybody help, please?

          Brent
          England
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21304 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/28/2013
          Subject: Re: English Man needs help please
          On 7/28/2013 8:30 AM, Brent wrote:
          > Dear Friends,
          >
          > Could a body please indentify 2 items for me?
          >
          > ACF Center Flow BBCX 15690 Green Bevebel "Plastics Make Model
          > Raildroading Fun!

          The hopper is an Athearn model which Bev-Bel painted in that scheme.
          Bev-Bel created many paint schemes using Athearn models for railroads
          which were being ignored by the main producers. In this case it's a
          novelty paint scheme rather than something based on a prototype, I
          think. Info on that car is here:
          http://www.bev-bel.com/railroad/Bev-Bel-HO-scale-train-256.aspx

          And a larger list of many of Bev-Bel's paint schemes is here:
          http://www.bev-bel.com/bev-bel.aspx

          --

          Rick Jones

          "Why worry? Each of us is carrying an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on
          his back."
          -Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21305 From: Brent Date: 7/31/2013
          Subject: Re: English Man needs help please
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 7/28/2013 8:30 AM, Brent wrote:
          > > Dear Friends,
          > >
          > > Could a body please indentify 2 items for me?
          > >
          > > ACF Center Flow BBCX 15690 Green Bevebel "Plastics Make Model
          > > Raildroading Fun!
          >
          > The hopper is an Athearn model which Bev-Bel painted in that scheme.
          > Bev-Bel created many paint schemes using Athearn models for railroads
          > which were being ignored by the main producers. In this case it's a
          > novelty paint scheme rather than something based on a prototype, I
          > think. Info on that car is here:
          > http://www.bev-bel.com/railroad/Bev-Bel-HO-scale-train-256.aspx
          >
          > And a larger list of many of Bev-Bel's paint schemes is here:
          > http://www.bev-bel.com/bev-bel.aspx
          >
          > --
          >
          > Rick Jones
          >
          > "Why worry? Each of us is carrying an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on
          > his back."
          > -Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"
          >
          Rick

          Thank you for your help

          Brent
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21306 From: Brent Date: 7/31/2013
          Subject: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          Friends

          Has 1 of the above been written?

          As we have "The Standard Guide to Athearn Model Trains", Why not about MDC/Roundhouse.

          Do you know of a book?

          Brent

          England
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21307 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/1/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          I, for one would like to see a reference book or books for the following: Bev-Bel, New England Models, Kar-Line as well as MDC. I know there is scattered info on the 'net. But to have it all in one place would be cool. Perhaps there is something I just haven't found yet. I know that someone put together a great reference site for Bev-Bel several years ago but let it lapse into obscurity. Anyone know what happened to the data? Regards,  Al Campbell
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21308 From: Larry Date: 8/1/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          Not a book, but a good reference...


          Would love to see others such as LaBelle, Quality Craft and Red Ball as well (as long as we're making a wish list).

          A listing of models by description, number, date of manufacture and number of kits made along with a photo would be great! If anyone can provide the information, I will be glad to assemble into book format and post here.

          Larry Miller III


          From: "madchemep2@..." <madchemep2@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:02 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse



          I, for one would like to see a reference book or books for the following: Bev-Bel, New England Models, Kar-Line as well as MDC. I know there is scattered info on the 'net. But to have it all in one place would be cool. Perhaps there is something I just haven't found yet. I know that someone put together a great reference site for Bev-Bel several years ago but let it lapse into obscurity. Anyone know what happened to the data? Regards,  Al Campbell




          Group: vintageHO Message: 21309 From: Brent Date: 8/1/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, madchemep2@... wrote:
          >
          > I, for one would like to see a reference book or books for the following:
          > Bev-Bel, New England Models, Kar-Line as well as MDC. I know there is
          > scattered info on the 'net. But to have it all in one place would be cool.
          > Perhaps there is something I just haven't found yet. I know that someone put
          > together a great reference site for Bev-Bel several years ago but let it lapse
          > into obscurity. Anyone know what happened to the data? Regards, Al
          > Campbell
          >
          Al
          Put Bev-Bel into a search engine and see what comes up.
          A site called Mainline Model Miniatures comes up, click on list on left hand side.

          Brent
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21310 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/2/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse New England Models
          Hi Larry: That reference you showed Is New England Rail Service. A current manufacturer of passenger car kits and parts. What I was referring to was New England Models, a custom decorator of Athearn cars mostly with a northeastern or Rustbelt flavor, based in No. Dartmouth MA. They probably faded from the scene around 1980 after producing about 200 different cars. Their work was quite good for the time, and every car I have seen was pretty accurate. We will discuss this further. Regards, Al Campbell 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21311 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/2/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse Bev-Bel
          Hi Brent: Yes, I am familiar with Mainline models in Ohio. It's the best we have right now and the people there deserve credit for what they have done to further knowledge of the Bev-Bel name. However, it is a little clumsy to navigate. I participated in a site run by a Robert Sells that was ideal for research purposes. One day I tagged on it and got a notice that it was down due to the web host no longer carrying it. That was the missing data I referred to. Mr. Sells if you read this, lets see if we can restore the old Bev-Bel site. I have a paper list of Bev-Bel that contains around 5000 items but I have no idea how complete it is. It does not list the date of release or road number of the car. Regards, Al Campbell  
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21312 From: cwrailman Date: 8/2/2013
          Subject: Need Main side rod for Rivarossi / Pocher 4-4-0

          I am in need of a main side rod assembly for a Pocher / Rivarossi 4-4-0.  If you have one to spare please contact me.   In addition you might be interested in the latest project to come out of our California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild Shops.  A similar project is the reason I am looking for the main side rod.

          Check out Remotoring a Rivarossi 4-4-0 on the Projects page to see how the latest project to come out of our shops turned out.  There is a video attached to the last image to show the remotored loco in operation.

          Denny

          Janitor in Training

          CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

          WEB site: CWRailman.com 

          Facebook: CWRailman 
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21313 From: oklacnw Date: 8/2/2013
          Subject: Re: Red Ball
          I have a catalog from early 1970s' of Red Ball if that will help catalog his items.
          --
          Al E.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21314 From: erieberk Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          Several of us compiled an extensive Kar-Line listing, but as this line (as well as Bev Bel, New England Models and much -- of the newer -- plastic MDC line) are too new to be considered Vintage, and are really off-topic here, we sent the material to Larry Stevenson for his HO Seeker site. There are probably discussions on this in the archives, buy the various members involved. I did draw up a complete listing of MDC/Roundhouse metal production here, which can be found in the Files section -- and which is why it was posted, for your use.

          Ray Wetzel



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, madchemep2@... wrote:
          >
          > I, for one would like to see a reference book or books for the following:
          > Bev-Bel, New England Models, Kar-Line as well as MDC. I know there is
          > scattered info on the 'net. But to have it all in one place would be cool.
          > Perhaps there is something I just haven't found yet. I know that someone put
          > together a great reference site for Bev-Bel several years ago but let it lapse
          > into obscurity. Anyone know what happened to the data? Regards, Al
          > Campbell
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21315 From: erieberk Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          Larry,

          Again, I drew up a complete listing of Red Ball's production, which can be found in the Files section -- as Chuck Higdon here made into a spreadsheet -- for the purpose of the members referring back to it as needed. There's loads of material from many early manufacturers in the Files section, if you only take the time to go there to check it out. While I don't believe there's a La Belle listing which would be a good candidate for such an undertaking, there is a lengthy history on it in the Files, by the current owner, which you may find interesting.

          Quality Craft may just be a bit to new to be considered "Vintage;" that would need looking into if it were to be done on this List. I don't see them being advertised much before 1971, but then too, Central Valley, Main Line Models and Silver Streak (by Pacific H0) car kits were still being manufactured then even though they started earlier -- and are considered vintage by many. Could be beneficial to include them.

          Ray Wetzel



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Not a book, but a good reference...
          >
          > MDC ; http://hoseeker.net/mdcmiscellaneous.html
          > Bev-Bel ; http://www.bev-bel.com/bev-bel.aspx
          > New England Models ; https://www.walthers.com/exec/manuinfo/529/New_England_Rail.html
          >
          > Would love to see others such as LaBelle, Quality Craft and Red Ball as well (as long as we're making a wish list).
          >
          > A listing of models by description, number, date of manufacture and number of kits made along with a photo would be great! If anyone can provide the information, I will be glad to assemble into book format and post here.
          >
          >
          > Larry Miller III
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "madchemep2@..." <madchemep2@...>
          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:02 AM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I, for one would like to see a reference book or books for the
          > following: Bev-Bel, New England Models, Kar-Line as well as MDC. I know there is
          > scattered info on the 'net. But to have it all in one place would be cool.
          > Perhaps there is something I just haven't found yet. I know that someone put
          > together a great reference site for Bev-Bel several years ago but let it lapse
          > into obscurity. Anyone know what happened to the data? Regards,  Al
          > Campbell
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21316 From: Rick Steele Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: Re: Red Ball
          I have the Product line if he needs Parts.

          Rick Steele

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <oklacnw@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a catalog from early 1970s' of Red Ball if that will help catalog his items.
          > --
          > Al E.
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21317 From: Chris B Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: vintage HO brass boxcar kit CNJ by Custom Photo/Graphics of NY & Oh
          Hi, I recently very happily won this vintage HO brass box car body kit on eBay, it's a CNJ wood box car kit by Custom Photo/Graphics, earlier of NY, and later of Munro Ohio.

          The firm is listed in the NMRA directory of early HO mfgrs, but I couldn't find anything on them on HOSeeker; and I found only one other online reference to them, a 1970s listing

          of a photo-etched cantilever signal bridge kit.

          I really like this kit, would very much like to find more copies, but I'm also just curious about the firm and their output, anyone else have any knowledge of them?

          thanks,

          Chris Brannigan




          http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-1-87-Vintage-Custom-Photo-Graphics-NY-BRASS-WOOD-SHEATHED-BOX-CAR-CNJ-/181174457960?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a2ed6d668



          The item is listed as a Top Rated Plus item

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21318 From: Larry Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          Ray,
          I will check through what is in the files section and see if I can format something from them. Any other lists could either be posted there or sent to me directly at mrncartoon@... as an attachment and I'll see what I can do. Summer season is a little busy for me but as we get into shorter days in the fall I can devote more time to it.
          Looks like I may be busy with this.
          Larry Miller III



          From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 8:17 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse

          Larry,

          Again, I drew up a complete listing of Red Ball's production, which can be found in the Files section -- as Chuck Higdon here made into a spreadsheet -- for the purpose of the members referring back to it as needed.  There's loads of material from many early manufacturers in the Files section, if you only take the time to go there to check it out.  While I don't believe there's a La Belle listing which would be a good candidate for such an undertaking, there is a lengthy history on it in the Files, by the current owner, which you may find interesting. 

          Quality Craft may just be a bit to new to be considered "Vintage;" that would need looking into if it were to be done on this List.  I don't see them being advertised much before 1971, but then too, Central Valley, Main Line Models and Silver Streak (by Pacific H0) car kits were still being manufactured then even though they started earlier -- and are considered vintage by many.  Could be beneficial to include them.

          Ray Wetzel



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Not a book, but a good reference...
          >
          > MDC ; http://hoseeker.net/mdcmiscellaneous.html
          > Bev-Bel ; http://www.bev-bel.com/bev-bel.aspx
          > New England Models ; https://www.walthers.com/exec/manuinfo/529/New_England_Rail.html
          >
          > Would love to see others such as LaBelle, Quality Craft and Red Ball as well (as long as we're making a wish list).
          >
          > A listing of models by description, number, date of manufacture and number of kits made along with a photo would be great! If anyone can provide the information, I will be glad to assemble into book format and post here.
          >
          >
          > Larry Miller III
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >  From: "madchemep2@..." <madchemep2@...>
          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:02 AM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse

          >
          >

          >
          >
          > I, for one would like to see a reference book or books for the
          > following: Bev-Bel, New England Models, Kar-Line as well as MDC. I know there is
          > scattered info on the 'net. But to have it all in one place would be cool.
          > Perhaps there is something I just haven't found yet. I know that someone put
          > together a great reference site for Bev-Bel several years ago but let it lapse
          > into obscurity. Anyone know what happened to the data? Regards,  Al
          > Campbell
          >




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          Group: vintageHO Message: 21319 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: Mantua Parts Needed
          A friend has purchased an incomplete Mantua Pacific(I date it at about 1948 - enclosed gears, etc.), but it is missing the lead truck, the main rods and all the valve gear(including the hangers). I managed to fix him up with a free tender from my boxes of stuff...but the rest, I don't have.

          I looked at HO Seeker without luck. Same with eBay...
          Would anyone here be willing to part with such items?
          Need price, freight cost and so on.
          Thanks in advance !
          Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21320 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/3/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          On 8/3/2013 9:46 PM, Larry wrote:
          Ray,
          I will check through what is in the files section and see if I can format something from them. Any other lists could either be posted there or sent to me directly at mrncartoon@... as an attachment and I'll see what I can do. Summer season is a little busy for me but as we get into shorter days in the fall I can devote more time to it.
          Looks like I may be busy with this.
          Larry Miller III




          Quality Craft, and even their successor Gloor Craft would be OK.

          Vintage, at least as I see it, is not so much age as a type of model that you just don't see anymore, which includes pretty much all the wood "Craftsman kit" lines.

          When I started the list, my thought as to a "cut-off" date was pretty much the early to mid 1960's,  but since the hobby has pretty much been taken over by Chinese plastic ready to run, I don't have a problem with more recent models, as long as they embody the "spirit" of the day when the measure of a modeller was his modelling ability and imagination, rather than the size of the credit limit on his Visa card.

          Don
          -- 
          Don Dellmann
          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21321 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/4/2013
          Subject: Re: Mantua Parts Needed
          Hi Fred,

          Try Yardbird at yardbridtrains.com. Dan carries a lot of Mantua parts.
          If you want a Mantua Tender they show up a lot on E-Bay. I also have a
          spare complete tender but it will need painting.

          Joel Holmes

          > A friend has purchased an incomplete Mantua Pacific(I date it at about
          > 1948 - enclosed gears, etc.), but it is missing the lead truck, the main
          > rods and all the valve gear(including the hangers). I managed to fix him
          > up with a free tender from my boxes of stuff...but the rest, I don't have.
          >
          >
          > I looked at HO Seeker without luck. Same with eBay...
          >
          > Would anyone here be willing to part with such items?
          > Need price, freight cost and so on.
          > Thanks in advance !
          >
          > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21322 From: erieberk Date: 8/4/2013
          Subject: Re: vintage HO brass boxcar kit CNJ by Custom Photo/Graphics of NY
          Hi Chris,

          You're lucky to have found this kit, especially as I don't believe they produced large runs. They seemed to be a smaller manufacturer -- producing quality items -- but didn't last very long; nor did they produce very many items.

          As far as I can see, Custom Photo/Graphics started around 1972. They are not in the Walthers 1971 catalog, but are found in the 1973 issue -- with your item (CNJ Boxcar), their catalog number CPG-2 Old Time Freight Car Carbody advertised as their "NEW" introduction that year. Their catalog number CBG-1 Two-Track Signal Bridge Kit seems to have been introduced the previous year, as it was written up in MR (April 1972), in the Trade Topics column.

          In time, they produced a few other signal devices, and one other rolling stock kit. The Walthers 1974 catalog includes their 027 (Walthers' # for this manufacturer)-003; the apparent "CBG-3" of Custom Photo Brass -- a shorty PRR Caboose which could be bought as either a four wheel or as an eight wheel version. By 1975, Walthers has their CBG 1 and CBG-2 as still available this year, but a Cantilever Signal Bridge (Walthers 027-024) was added, as well as a Red, Yellow and Green LED Target Signal Head kit (Walthers 027-026).

          By 1977 the two car kits were discontinued, while the two signal bridges were still being sold, as well as the LED Target Signal Head. This year, both a "NEW" C&O Signal Bridge (Walthers 227-39) was added, along with a 3-Track Cantenary Signal Bridge Kit (Walthers 227-29). A new Signal Head Service Cage Kit (Walthers 227-30) was also included by 1977. I don't have Walthers 1978 catalog, but by 1979, there was no mention of them by Walthers. BTW, you'll notice that Walthers changed their catalog numbering system for this manufacturer between 1975 and 1977, to "227" (from the previous 027). This may have been when the move was made to Munro, Ohio.

          Ray Wetzel




          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, I recently very happily won this vintage HO brass box car body kit on eBay, it's a CNJ wood box car kit by Custom Photo/Graphics, earlier of NY, and later of Munro Ohio.
          >
          > The firm is listed in the NMRA directory of early HO mfgrs, but I couldn't find anything on them on HOSeeker; and I found only one other online reference to them, a 1970s listing
          >
          > of a photo-etched cantilever signal bridge kit.
          >
          > I really like this kit, would very much like to find more copies, but I'm also just curious about the firm and their output, anyone else have any knowledge of them?
          >
          > thanks,
          >
          > Chris Brannigan
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-1-87-Vintage-Custom-Photo-Graphics-NY-BRASS-WOOD-SHEATHED-BOX-CAR-CNJ-/181174457960?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a2ed6d668
          >
          >
          >
          > HO 1:87 Vintage Custom Photo/Graphics NY BRASS WOOD-SHEATHED BOX CAR CNJ
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21323 From: erieberk Date: 8/4/2013
          Subject: Re: Reference book about MDC/Roundhouse
          Glad to hear that Don. Yes, I thought that originally the "cut-off" date was as you just stated -- the early to mid 1960's -- even if it hadn't been expressed here (or maybe it was). Makes sense that somewhat newer models should be considered vintage when it takes a craftsman to assemble them.

          In addition to Pacific HO's series of Silver Streak kits, I've also collected and operate Walthers' continuation of them with their different roadnames. Likewise, for Walthers continuation of the Ulrich line -- besides my having the original Ulrich's, I've collected and operate the Walthers introductions of their different roadnames.

          There's no difference in materials or construction of these, and I just see them as an expansion of available roads to the originals that first came out. Good to see they're considered vintage. I would guess then, that Ye Ole Huff 'N Puff should also now be considered vintage, even though I saw no reason to buy any.

          Ray Wetzel



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > Quality Craft, and even their successor Gloor Craft would be OK.
          >
          > Vintage, at least as I see it, is not so much age as a type of model
          > that you just don't see anymore, which includes pretty much all the wood
          > "Craftsman kit" lines.
          >
          > When I started the list, my thought as to a "cut-off" date was pretty
          > much the early to mid 1960's, but since the hobby has pretty much been
          > taken over by Chinese plastic ready to run, I don't have a problem with
          > more recent models, as long as they embody the "spirit" of the day when
          > the measure of a modeller was his modelling ability and imagination,
          > rather than the size of the credit limit on his Visa card.
          >
          > Don
          >
          > --
          > Don Dellmann
          > don.dellmann@...
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21324 From: Geo Stahlberg Date: 8/5/2013
          Subject: Re: Red Ball
          LaBelle Woodworking now owns Red Ball: perhaps they can help.
           
          George

          From: "oklacnw@..." <oklacnw@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:17 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Red Ball
           
          I have a catalog from early 1970s' of Red Ball if that will help catalog his items.
          --
          Al E.

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21325 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/5/2013
          Subject: Re: Mantua Part Needed
          Thanks, Joel. I have joined yardbirdtrains and will ask there.

          The tender I parted with - I'm just happy it found a good home. No need to replace it, AFAIK.


          From: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 6:00 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Digest Number 2969

          There are 3 messages in this issue.

          Topics in this digest:

          1a. Re: Mantua Parts Needed   
              From: Joel Holmes



          Messages
          ________________________________________________________________________
          1a. Re: Mantua Parts Needed
              Posted by: "Joel Holmes" lehighvalley@... joeloh3
              Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 4:18 am ((PDT))

          Hi Fred,

          Try Yardbird at yardbridtrains.com.  Dan carries a lot of Mantua parts.
          If you want a Mantua Tender they show up a lot on E-Bay.  I also have a
          spare complete tender but it will need painting.

          Joel Holmes


          Group: vintageHO Message: 21326 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/5/2013
          Subject: Re: Mantua Part Needed
          Hi Fred,

          Go to www.yardbridtrains.com and see what Dan has.

          Joel

          > Thanks, Joel. I have joined yardbirdtrains and will ask there.
          >
          > The tender I parted with - I'm just happy it found a good home. No need to
          > replace it, AFAIK.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >>________________________________
          >> From: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          >>To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          >>Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 6:00 AM
          >>Subject: [vintageHO] Digest Number 2969
          >>
          >>
          >>There are 3 messages in this issue.
          >>
          >>Topics in this digest:
          >>
          >>1a. Re: Mantua Parts Needed   
          >>    From: Joel Holmes
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>Messages
          >>________________________________________________________________________
          >>1a. Re: Mantua Parts Needed
          >>    Posted by: "Joel Holmes" lehighvalley@... joeloh3
          >>    Date: Sun Aug 4, 2013 4:18 am ((PDT))
          >>
          >>Hi Fred,
          >>
          >>Try Yardbird at yardbridtrains.com.  Dan carries a lot of Mantua parts.
          >>If you want a Mantua Tender they show up a lot on E-Bay.  I also have a
          >>spare complete tender but it will need painting.
          >>
          >>Joel Holmes
          >>
          >>
          >>
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21327 From: vancampbell64 Date: 8/6/2013
          Subject: 1960's Vintage Athearn "WMD" Sets
          I've got a couple of these sets in my collection. My sets have the "Hustler" engine included in the contents of the set. However, I've seen a set on the HOSeeker site that has the "Lil Monster" included in the set. My curiosity is: What does the "WMD" designation for these sets indicate? The "Standard Guide" indicates that at the time of publication, no one has figured this out yet. These are rather unusual sets and the mystery behind them is something that someone out there has the answer for. Anybody else have one of these also? VBC.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21328 From: gary Date: 8/6/2013
          Subject: Revell SW7 1958
          Hello,
          I am looking for a motor and "o" ring pulley for a 1958 Revell SW7.
          Anyone have an extra or junker they would part with? Willing to pay reasonable price and shipping. I am trying to restore an old engine given to me in the 1970's that was missing parts. Thanks for any help.
          Gary Pardue,
          garyp552002@...
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21329 From: rcjge Date: 8/17/2013
          Subject: A whack of stuff for sale....
          Hey Guys:

          I'm am seriously paring down my collection of Vintage model trains. I'm in Canada but will be travelling to the states next week to visit my Brother and will ship stuff people want at that time. If you don't know me, well I haven't been on here in some time I'm pretty sure Nelson or Tony Lucio or Sean can vouch for my integrity....

          I gave a pristine Athearn 1960 or 61 RDC set box that's spoken for I believe.

          Also a Mantua 8 Ball unassembled. It appears as though it never was....

          Barr-Nixon Switcher kit

          Athearn Hustlers, NOS with or without Ernst Gearing kits.

          MDC 0-6-0 Switchers, I think I have three, none fully assembled.

          Varney Pullmman kit

          Ambroid kits....

          I'm going to create a folder to sell this stuff and add pictures as I go....

          I will also be making a trip again in October and will do the same thing...

          I'll make a document up in pdf so anyone can look at what's there. I'll replace it as things are sold or I find them....

          Everything I ship will go in fixed rate USPS boxes... small or Medium normally.

          Best,
          Gareth
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21330 From: Brad Smith Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
          Gareth:

          Please send me the PDF info. 

          Brad

          Sent from Brad's iPod

          On Aug 18, 2013, at 12:43 AM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

           

          Hey Guys:

          I'm am seriously paring down my collection of Vintage model trains. I'm in Canada but will be travelling to the states next week to visit my Brother and will ship stuff people want at that time. If you don't know me, well I haven't been on here in some time I'm pretty sure Nelson or Tony Lucio or Sean can vouch for my integrity....

          I gave a pristine Athearn 1960 or 61 RDC set box that's spoken for I believe.

          Also a Mantua 8 Ball unassembled. It appears as though it never was....

          Barr-Nixon Switcher kit

          Athearn Hustlers, NOS with or without Ernst Gearing kits.

          MDC 0-6-0 Switchers, I think I have three, none fully assembled.

          Varney Pullmman kit

          Ambroid kits....

          I'm going to create a folder to sell this stuff and add pictures as I go....

          I will also be making a trip again in October and will do the same thing...

          I'll make a document up in pdf so anyone can look at what's there. I'll replace it as things are sold or I find them....

          Everything I ship will go in fixed rate USPS boxes... small or Medium normally.

          Best,
          Gareth

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21331 From: vancampbell64 Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
          Yep, the RDC box is spoken for! Looking forward to hearing from you, Gareth! VBC.

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey Guys:
          >
          > I'm am seriously paring down my collection of Vintage model trains. I'm in Canada but will be travelling to the states next week to visit my Brother and will ship stuff people want at that time. If you don't know me, well I haven't been on here in some time I'm pretty sure Nelson or Tony Lucio or Sean can vouch for my integrity....
          >
          > I gave a pristine Athearn 1960 or 61 RDC set box that's spoken for I believe.
          >
          > Also a Mantua 8 Ball unassembled. It appears as though it never was....
          >
          > Barr-Nixon Switcher kit
          >
          > Athearn Hustlers, NOS with or without Ernst Gearing kits.
          >
          > MDC 0-6-0 Switchers, I think I have three, none fully assembled.
          >
          > Varney Pullmman kit
          >
          > Ambroid kits....
          >
          > I'm going to create a folder to sell this stuff and add pictures as I go....
          >
          > I will also be making a trip again in October and will do the same thing...
          >
          > I'll make a document up in pdf so anyone can look at what's there. I'll replace it as things are sold or I find them....
          >
          > Everything I ship will go in fixed rate USPS boxes... small or Medium normally.
          >
          > Best,
          > Gareth
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21332 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
          Hey Brad:

          I hope to have that list later today or a start..... I'll post it into a folder hopefully with pics today...

          -Gareth



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:
          >
          > Gareth:
          >
          > Please send me the PDF info.
          >
          > Brad
          > corlissbs@...
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21333 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: A whack of stuff for sale....
          I have a folder in the Pictures section called "4 sale Gareth" I'll be putting photo's there... don't think it will let me put a pdf there so I may have to put that in the "files" section

          -Gareth
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21335 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          Are you running bids for these items in this list???

          I'm not sure that's good for this egroup.

          I'm interested in some items, but running bids through here is going to be a pain. The group is not set up to make that an easy thing.


          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:16 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Guys this is a start only lots to go....
          >
          > 1/. Lionel HO 200 Ton Crane car. I have the tender car as well but it's missing a fence.
          >
          > 2/. Mantua 8 Ball Excellent but unassembled - Brass cab...
          >
          > 3/. Mantua 0-8-0 Slope back tender, org box but box is poor. Canadian Pacific.
          >
          > 4/. Pair of Athearn Hustlers, NOS (1 Red and 1 Yellow) with or without Ernst Gearing kits.... and by that I mean the kits aren't installed
          >
          > 5/. Mehano 2-6-0 needs pilot great shape otherwise
          >
          > 6/. Roundhouse 2-8-0 with I think a Sangami motor in it, pretty sure it has a cast boiler....
          >
          > 7/. AHM Alco U-4a 0-8-0 Switcher. Great condition needs smoke box cover put back on and cab roof.
          >
          > 8/. Penn Line GG1 set. Engine, caboose and three cars
          >
          > 9/. Athearn Trainmaster in weathered CNJ and extra Shell in Virginia scheme. Org "BLUE" box.
          >
          > 10/.Lionel HO Track Cleaner car.
          >
          > 11/. Varney NW-2 Metal
          >
          > 12/. Varney NW-2 Metal Unassembled
          >
          > 13/. Roundhouse Yardhog Tanker 0-6-0 Switcher. No motor, otherwise very good - exe
          >
          > 14/. Lima 0-4-0 Steamer switcher with choice of slope back tender.
          >
          > Lots to add. I will replace this list with an expanded one likely by late tonight or some time tomorrow...
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21336 From: Brad Smith Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          What are the numbers on the Hustlers?

          Sent from Brad's iPod

          On Aug 18, 2013, at 8:16 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

           

          Guys this is a start only lots to go....

          1/. Lionel HO 200 Ton Crane car. I have the tender car as well but it's missing a fence.

          2/. Mantua 8 Ball Excellent but unassembled - Brass cab...

          3/. Mantua 0-8-0 Slope back tender, org box but box is poor. Canadian Pacific.

          4/. Pair of Athearn Hustlers, NOS (1 Red and 1 Yellow) with or without Ernst Gearing kits.... and by that I mean the kits aren't installed

          5/. Mehano 2-6-0 needs pilot great shape otherwise

          6/. Roundhouse 2-8-0 with I think a Sangami motor in it, pretty sure it has a cast boiler....

          7/. AHM Alco U-4a 0-8-0 Switcher. Great condition needs smoke box cover put back on and cab roof.

          8/. Penn Line GG1 set. Engine, caboose and three cars

          9/. Athearn Trainmaster in weathered CNJ and extra Shell in Virginia scheme. Org "BLUE" box.

          10/.Lionel HO Track Cleaner car.

          11/. Varney NW-2 Metal

          12/. Varney NW-2 Metal Unassembled

          13/. Roundhouse Yardhog Tanker 0-6-0 Switcher. No motor, otherwise very good - exe

          14/. Lima 0-4-0 Steamer switcher with choice of slope back tender.

          Lots to add. I will replace this list with an expanded one likely by late tonight or some time tomorrow...

          Thanks,
          Gareth

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21337 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          Hey Mike:

          No running bids.

          Just looking for interest then we take it side-band.

          Close to first come first served if the offer is reasonable.

          What are you interested in?

          -Gareth



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
          >
          > Are you running bids for these items in this list???
          >
          > I'm not sure that's good for this egroup.
          >
          > I'm interested in some items, but running bids through here is going to be a pain. The group is not set up to make that an easy thing.
          >
          >
          > Mike Bauers
          > Sent from my iPhone
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21338 From: rcjge Date: 8/18/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          Hey Brad:

          Email me directly ok?

          Which one of the Red or Yellow, with or without Ernst gear kit, still sealed or open Ernst kit...? I also have a last year made Version `91 or 92 in I think Rio Grande paint...

          Let me know by email....

          Best,
          Gareth

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:
          >
          > What are the numbers on the Hustlers?
          >
          > Sent from Brad's iPod
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21339 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
          Guys this is a start only lots to go....

          1/. Lionel HO 200 Ton Crane car. I have the tender car as well but it's missing
          a fence.

          2/. Mantua 8 Ball Excellent but unassembled - Brass cab...

          3/. Mantua 0-8-0 WITH Slope back tender, org box but box is poor. Canadian Pacific.

          4/. Pair of Athearn Hustlers, NOS (1 Red and 1 Yellow) with or without Ernst
          Gearing kits.... and by that I mean the kits aren't installed

          5/. Mehano 2-6-0 needs pilot great shape otherwise

          6/. Roundhouse 2-8-0 with I think a Sangami motor in it, pretty sure it has a
          cast boiler....

          7/. AHM Alco U-4a 0-8-0 Switcher. Great condition needs smoke box cover put back
          on and cab roof.

          8/. Penn Line GG1 set. Engine, caboose and three cars

          9/. Athearn Trainmaster in weathered CNJ and extra Shell in Virginia scheme. Org
          "BLUE" box.

          10/.Lionel HO Track Cleaner car.

          11/. Varney NW-2 Metal

          12/. Varney NW-2 Metal Unassembled

          13/. Roundhouse Yardhog Tanker 0-6-0 Switcher. No motor, otherwise very good -
          exe

          14/. Lima 0-4-0 Steamer switcher with choice of slope back tender.

          15/. Walthers HH600 Body/Shell

          16/. John English FA Shell

          17/.

          Lots to add. I will replace this list with an expanded one likely by late
          tonight or some time tomorrow...

          Thanks,
          Gareth
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21340 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          Hey Brad:

          With or without the Ernst kits. One has been oened the other not....

          Please email me to continue this... thanks.

          -Gareth

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:
          >
          > What are the numbers on the Hustlers?
          >
          > Sent from Brad's iPod
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21341 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
          See subject line....

          -Gareth
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21342 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
          On 8/19/2013 12:52 PM, rcjge wrote:
          > See subject line....
          >
          > -Gareth
          >
          >
          Why won't Yahoo do a lot of things? Actually though, I'm not sure
          exactly what you mean. You should be able to edit while you're typing,
          once it's posted though that's it, it's sent.

          Don

          --
          Don Dellmann
          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21343 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
          Hey Don:

          know what, brain cramp. I was thinking forum in my mind, whereas these groups are mailing lists and as you say.. sent -> gone!

          Just frustrating when wanting to change a posting...

          -Gareth


          On 19 August 2013 14:28, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
           

          On 8/19/2013 12:52 PM, rcjge wrote:
          > See subject line....
          >
          > -Gareth
          >
          >
          Why won't Yahoo do a lot of things? Actually though, I'm not sure
          exactly what you mean. You should be able to edit while you're typing,
          once it's posted though that's it, it's sent.

          Don

          --
          Don Dellmann
          don.dellmann@...
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21344 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
          -Lindsay Stubby Chassis and shell, no pilot

          -English Yardbird Boiler/Cab and tender w/o chassis or tender trucks, clean gorgeous.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21345 From: corlissbs Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          What I want to know is the color and the number on the side of the cab.  I don't care about the drive, as I am a collector of Hustlers.
           
          Brad
           
          In a message dated 8/19/2013 12:26:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jgpedwards@... writes:
           

          Hey Brad:

          With or without the Ernst kits. One has been oened the other not....

          Please email me to continue this... thanks.

          -Gareth

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:
          >
          > What are the numbers on the Hustlers?
          >
          > Sent from Brad's iPod

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21346 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          Hey Brad:

          I'll try to let you know tonight or tomorrow. They are sorted now into to be sold, maybe sell, no chance I'll sell bins and I'm still going through stuff. Once I have done the first separation I'll be going back through the for sell bins specifically to respond to emails like yours...
          do you want the number off the Rio Grande last model year one, or just the earlier yellow and red ones?

          -Gareth


          On 19 August 2013 16:27, <corlissbs@...> wrote:
           

          What I want to know is the color and the number on the side of the cab.  I don't care about the drive, as I am a collector of Hustlers.
           
          Brad
           
          In a message dated 8/19/2013 12:26:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jgpedwards@... writes:
           

          Hey Brad:

          With or without the Ernst kits. One has been oened the other not....

          Please email me to continue this... thanks.

          -Gareth

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote:
          >
          > What are the numbers on the Hustlers?
          >
          > Sent from Brad's iPod




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21347 From: corlissbs Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          For Rio Grande, just the color.
           
          Brad
           
          In a message dated 8/19/2013 3:42:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jgpedwards@... writes:
           

          Hey Brad:

          I'll try to let you know tonight or tomorrow. They are sorted now into to be sold, maybe sell, no chance I'll sell bins and I'm still going through stuff. Once I have done the first separation I'll be going back through the for sell bins specifically to respond to emails like yours...
          do you want the number off the Rio Grande last model year one, or just the earlier yellow and red ones?

          -Gareth

           
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21348 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
           
          just get it right the first time  no problem
          Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 1:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Why won't the IDIOTS at Yahoo allow postings to be EDITED!
           
           

          On 8/19/2013 12:52 PM, rcjge wrote:
          > See subject line....
          >
          > -Gareth
          >
          >
          Why won't Yahoo do a lot of things? Actually though, I'm not sure
          exactly what you mean. You should be able to edit while you're typing,
          once it's posted though that's it, it's sent.

          Don

          --
          Don Dellmann
          mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
          Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21349 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: Whack of stuff for sale list
          Brad:

          Pretty sure hood black, cab sides orangy-red...
          It's pristine in original box, don't think it's ever been run.

          -Gareth

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote:
          >
          > For Rio Grande, just the color.
          >
          > Brad
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 8/19/2013 3:42:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
          > jgpedwards@... writes:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hey Brad:
          >
          >
          > I'll try to let you know tonight or tomorrow. They are sorted now into to
          > be sold, maybe sell, no chance I'll sell bins and I'm still going through
          > stuff. Once I have done the first separation I'll be going back through the
          > for sell bins specifically to respond to emails like yours...
          > do you want the number off the Rio Grande last model year one, or just the
          > earlier yellow and red ones?
          >
          >
          > -Gareth
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21350 From: Gary Woodard Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Need Identification
          Hi Guys,
           
          I got this model from my friend Dana, it looks to be a brass kit of some kind, probably made sometime in the 1950's, there is no drive in it of course, I just need to know if this was a commercially available kit of a BL2, or was it someone's scratchbuilding project?
           
          Gary W
           
           
          Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!
            @@attachment@@
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21351 From: Gary Woodard Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Another Item of Interest
          Hi again Guys,
           
          Here's another cool item I got at one of Dana's train sales last year, this is a Lindburg 40 foot boxcar, labeled for C&NW, it looks like this box has never been opened, for all I know, it could have been but the car looks like its in mint condition.
           
          Gary W
           
           
          Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!
            @@attachment@@
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21352 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
          Boilers: Penn Line Atlantic/Consolie
          Boilers: Bowser Mike/Pacific
          Boilers: Mantua Mike/Pacific
          Boilers: Roundhouse Santa Fe for 10 wheeler or Consolie

          More to come...

          -Gareth
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21353 From: rcjge Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          Hey Guys

          As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

          Thanks,
          Gareth
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21354 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          I'll bet it's confusion with the class name of eight-wheeler (4-4-0) being similar to 8-Ball.

          I'll bet there's a story forgotten on why Mantua picked the name of 8-ball for their 2-6-0.


          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:06 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Hey Guys
          >
          > As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21355 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          Hey Mike:

          Never heard it called an 8 wheeler before. It's correct of course but I had thought typically this was called an "American" and the 2-6-0 a Mogul but I don't work in marketing....

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:07, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          I'll bet it's confusion with the class name of eight-wheeler (4-4-0) being similar to 8-Ball.

          I'll bet there's a story forgotten on why Mantua picked the name of 8-ball for their 2-6-0.

          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:06 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Hey Guys
          >
          > As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21356 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          It's sure one of those old names. When you think about the 4-6-0 being named a Ten-Wheeler, it seems they came out of about the same era.


          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:11 PM, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          Hey Mike:

          Never heard it called an 8 wheeler before. It's correct of course but I had thought typically this was called an "American" and the 2-6-0 a Mogul but I don't work in marketing....

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:07, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          I'll bet it's confusion with the class name of eight-wheeler (4-4-0) being similar to 8-Ball.

          I'll bet there's a story forgotten on why Mantua picked the name of 8-ball for their 2-6-0.

          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:06 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Hey Guys
          >
          > As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >


          Group: vintageHO Message: 21357 From: Mike Bauers Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          I think that American name was once longer as the American Standard locomotive. It was something about the 4-4-0 wheel arrangement being the largest group of steamer types built over time.


          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:11 PM, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          Hey Mike:

          Never heard it called an 8 wheeler before. It's correct of course but I had thought typically this was called an "American" and the 2-6-0 a Mogul but I don't work in marketing....

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:07, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          I'll bet it's confusion with the class name of eight-wheeler (4-4-0) being similar to 8-Ball.

          I'll bet there's a story forgotten on why Mantua picked the name of 8-ball for their 2-6-0.

          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:06 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Hey Guys
          >
          > As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21358 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          Makes sense..... ;)

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:22, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          I think that American name was once longer as the American Standard locomotive. It was something about the 4-4-0 wheel arrangement being the largest group of steamer types built over time.



          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:11 PM, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          Hey Mike:

          Never heard it called an 8 wheeler before. It's correct of course but I had thought typically this was called an "American" and the 2-6-0 a Mogul but I don't work in marketing....

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:07, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          I'll bet it's confusion with the class name of eight-wheeler (4-4-0) being similar to 8-Ball.

          I'll bet there's a story forgotten on why Mantua picked the name of 8-ball for their 2-6-0.

          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:06 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Hey Guys
          >
          > As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21359 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/19/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          Yeah.

          Hope I can find a good home for the * Ball. Some of the offers have been pretty sad. Sean had said he's seen them normally go for $50-100 normally depending on condition and one well above that once. course that happens on ebay. The obverse is true also. I just got a cast Iron Unimat DB200 Lathe/Mill for under $200 in excellent condition. That's about a 1/3rd of what it would norm,ally sell for.

          Any  way bed for me....

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:18, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          It's sure one of those old names. When you think about the 4-6-0 being named a Ten-Wheeler, it seems they came out of about the same era.



          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:11 PM, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          Hey Mike:

          Never heard it called an 8 wheeler before. It's correct of course but I had thought typically this was called an "American" and the 2-6-0 a Mogul but I don't work in marketing....

          -Gareth


          On 20 August 2013 00:07, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
           

          I'll bet it's confusion with the class name of eight-wheeler (4-4-0) being similar to 8-Ball.

          I'll bet there's a story forgotten on why Mantua picked the name of 8-ball for their 2-6-0.

          Mike Bauers
          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:06 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

          > Hey Guys
          >
          > As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >





          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21360 From: rick.flaherty Date: 8/20/2013
          Subject: White sidewalls
          Hi group,
          Do any of you have a good method for cleaning the white sidewalls on steam drivers?
          TIA
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21361 From: Richard Dipping Date: 8/20/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          Gareth-
           
          Mantua used many common parts in the two engines, so their appearances are similar.  The "Belle of the 80s" was a 4-4-0 "American Standard" type.  The name "American Standard" was more formal than "Eight-Wheeler" (which was used more by railroad men) but both are correct.  The "8-Ball Mogul" is of course a 2-6-0.  "8-Ball" was a name Mantua invented for marketing purposes, much like their "Goat", "Busy Bee", "Mighty Mite", "Little Six" and "Big Six".  And "Belle of the 80s".
           
          Richard.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...>
          To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 10:07 pm
          Subject: [vintageHO] 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?

          Hey Guys
          
          As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. 
          I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must 
          be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can 
          anyone explain this phenomenon?
          
          Thanks,
          Gareth
          
          
          
          ------------------------------------
          
          Yahoo! Groups Links
          
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          Group: vintageHO Message: 21362 From: shawmut_fan Date: 8/20/2013
          Subject: Re: 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?
          Yes, they did share many parts.  I've got a Belle with a Mogul boiler and cab.  Perfectly interchangeable.  Gives it a more modern, heavier look.

          John B. Allyn


          From: "Richard Dipping" <richarddipping@...>
          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:39:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?

           

          Gareth-
           
          Mantua used many common parts in the two engines, so their appearances are similar.  The "Belle of the 80s" was a 4-4-0 "American Standard" type.  The name "American Standard" was more formal than "Eight-Wheeler" (which was used more by railroad men) but both are correct.  The "8-Ball Mogul" is of course a 2-6-0.  "8-Ball" was a name Mantua invented for marketing purposes, much like their "Goat", "Busy Bee", "Mighty Mite", "Little Six" and "Big Six".  And "Belle of the 80s".
           
          Richard.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...>
          To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 10:07 pm
          Subject: [vintageHO] 8 Ball or Belle whither goest thy difference!!!?

          Hey Guys
          
          As some of you know I have a Mantua "8 Ball" up for sale Unassembled, pristine. 
          I've had several inquiries with the easy majority say 7 of 10 figuring it must 
          be the "Belle" I'm offering which is a 4-4-0. The 8 Ball is a Mogul 2-6-0. Can 
          anyone explain this phenomenon?
          
          Thanks,
          Gareth
          
          
          
          ------------------------------------
          
          Yahoo! Groups Links
          
          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          
          <*> Your email settings:
              Individual Email | Traditional
          
          <*> To change settings online go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join
              (Yahoo! ID required)
          
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          Group: vintageHO Message: 21363 From: rcjge Date: 8/20/2013
          Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
          Mantua 8 Ball pics added in 4 sale Gareth

          -Gareth O_o
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21364 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/21/2013
          Subject: Walthers early postal car # 6630 for sale
          Hi all,

          I have a Walthers early postal car kit, number 6630. The kit appears to
          be complete including diaphragms. No trucks or couplers. It has not been
          started so all parts are ready for assembly. I am asking $36.00 plus
          actual postage. The parts are in good shape. This is a real gem for the
          collector. Please contact me off list at lehighvalley at twlakes dot net.

          Joel Holmes
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21365 From: Joel Holmes Date: 8/21/2013
          Subject: Walthers postal cars
          Hi All,

          I forgot to mention that the postal car I have for sale is HO. Sorry for
          the omission.

          Joel Holmes
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21366 From: rick.flaherty Date: 8/21/2013
          Subject: Re: White sidewalls
          I tried a white pearl erasor and that helped a little. Going to try SP-80 and a tooth brush, next.

          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rick.flaherty" <flick23@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi group,
          > Do any of you have a good method for cleaning the white sidewalls on steam drivers?
          > TIA
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21367 From: nico Date: 8/28/2013
          Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:
          >
          > Guys this is a start only lots to go....
          >
          > 1/. Lionel HO 200 Ton Crane car. I have the tender car as well but it's missing
          > a fence.
          >
          > 2/. Mantua 8 Ball Excellent but unassembled - Brass cab...
          >
          > 3/. Mantua 0-8-0 WITH Slope back tender, org box but box is poor. Canadian Pacific.
          >
          > 4/. Pair of Athearn Hustlers, NOS (1 Red and 1 Yellow) with or without Ernst
          > Gearing kits.... and by that I mean the kits aren't installed
          >
          > 5/. Mehano 2-6-0 needs pilot great shape otherwise
          >
          > 6/. Roundhouse 2-8-0 with I think a Sangami motor in it, pretty sure it has a
          > cast boiler....
          >
          > 7/. AHM Alco U-4a 0-8-0 Switcher. Great condition needs smoke box cover put back
          > on and cab roof.
          >
          > 8/. Penn Line GG1 set. Engine, caboose and three cars
          >
          > 9/. Athearn Trainmaster in weathered CNJ and extra Shell in Virginia scheme. Org
          > "BLUE" box.
          >
          > 10/.Lionel HO Track Cleaner car.
          >
          > 11/. Varney NW-2 Metal
          >
          > 12/. Varney NW-2 Metal Unassembled
          >
          > 13/. Roundhouse Yardhog Tanker 0-6-0 Switcher. No motor, otherwise very good -
          > exe
          >
          > 14/. Lima 0-4-0 Steamer switcher with choice of slope back tender.
          >
          > 15/. Walthers HH600 Body/Shell
          >
          > 16/. John English FA Shell
          >
          > 17/.
          >
          > Lots to add. I will replace this list with an expanded one likely by late
          > tonight or some time tomorrow...
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >

          Hey Gareth, could I get some pictures of your stuff for sale?
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21368 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/28/2013
          Subject: Re: A Whack of stuff for sale List updated regularly
          Hey There:

          The list has expanded though not yet posted and I have only photo's of some, so if you can tell me if you can list specific preferences?

          Also This state side trip is complete. Next one will be in October when again I will be transporting things state side to mail...

          Best,
          Gareth


          On 28 August 2013 17:30, nico <trainguru@...> wrote:
           



          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:
          >
          > Guys this is a start only lots to go....
          >
          > 1/. Lionel HO 200 Ton Crane car. I have the tender car as well but it's missing
          > a fence.
          >
          > 2/. Mantua 8 Ball Excellent but unassembled - Brass cab...
          >
          > 3/. Mantua 0-8-0 WITH Slope back tender, org box but box is poor. Canadian Pacific.
          >
          > 4/. Pair of Athearn Hustlers, NOS (1 Red and 1 Yellow) with or without Ernst
          > Gearing kits.... and by that I mean the kits aren't installed
          >
          > 5/. Mehano 2-6-0 needs pilot great shape otherwise
          >
          > 6/. Roundhouse 2-8-0 with I think a Sangami motor in it, pretty sure it has a
          > cast boiler....
          >
          > 7/. AHM Alco U-4a 0-8-0 Switcher. Great condition needs smoke box cover put back
          > on and cab roof.
          >
          > 8/. Penn Line GG1 set. Engine, caboose and three cars
          >
          > 9/. Athearn Trainmaster in weathered CNJ and extra Shell in Virginia scheme. Org
          > "BLUE" box.
          >
          > 10/.Lionel HO Track Cleaner car.
          >
          > 11/. Varney NW-2 Metal
          >
          > 12/. Varney NW-2 Metal Unassembled
          >
          > 13/. Roundhouse Yardhog Tanker 0-6-0 Switcher. No motor, otherwise very good -
          > exe
          >
          > 14/. Lima 0-4-0 Steamer switcher with choice of slope back tender.
          >
          > 15/. Walthers HH600 Body/Shell
          >
          > 16/. John English FA Shell
          >
          > 17/.
          >
          > Lots to add. I will replace this list with an expanded one likely by late
          > tonight or some time tomorrow...
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Gareth
          >

          Hey Gareth, could I get some pictures of your stuff for sale?




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21369 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/29/2013
          Subject: Tyco passengers cars?s
          Anybody in this group have information regarding the long shell Gilbert HO passenger bodies used by Tyco in a number of road names? I've seen the B&O cars. I have just acquired the Canadian Pacific cars. Would there be any others? How about the matching diesels to pull these cars? Were there diesels to match? Thanks for any help out there.
          Dominic
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21370 From: william witte Date: 8/29/2013
          Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?s
          Tyco made a F9A  Powered  & F9A  Dummy in B&O and CP in 1959. Tyco did not start making F9 B-units until 1961.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21371 From: william witte Date: 8/29/2013
          Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?s
          They were produced in 1959. B&O and CP were the only two roadnames.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 21372 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/29/2013
          Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?s
          I have a Santa Fe unit, MU-2 power & Engineer, exc condition.... so post 1961???

          -Gareth


          On 29 August 2013 23:02, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote:
           

          They were produced in 1959. B&O and CP were the only two roadnames.




          --
          "A is A"
          ~ Aristotle

          Group: vintageHO Message: 21373 From: Mike Christian Date: 8/30/2013
          Subject: Tyco Passenger Cars
          Attachments :

            Not sure if these are the same cars you are talking about (Gilbert origins), But I have several sets of TYCO Canadian National passenger sets. The interesting thing about them (to me) is the cars came in 3 or 4 road numbers/names and the F9A’s came in at least 3 road numbers (not sure if all three were available in sets though). All the B units I have seen whether dummy, single or dual powered only came in one road number.

             

            Since the Canadian and American releases were different, it is possible some of these variations were only available in one Country or the other.

             

            If anyone is interested, I will post detailed data on these items.

             

            Mike

            Group: vintageHO Message: 21374 From: Carl Neste Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject:
            http://idsl2.fr/_9037467_the_dr.oz_show_www.cnn.com_4671039_.html






            ____________

            SHA1:Q8748C952875M3OSO8ZJN54P4703WTGLU2521F09

            Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:24:10
            Group: vintageHO Message: 21375 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Re: Tyco Passenger Cars
            Hi Mike, I am a Gilbert HO collector and have seen the Gilbert shells used by Tyco. I was aware of the B&O and now I have the CP cars. The Gilbert shells were given to Tyco in "exchange?" for the Tyco Mantua General and two coaches used by Gilbert in 1950 for their FY&P HO Frontiersman set. The longer, by one window, Gilbert passenger car shells are somewhat scarce to come by and may not be easily noticed. I was always curious if the Tyco collectors are aware of them or how they came to be. I was also curious as to what other road names may have been used on these shells. If you have images, it might be neat to see them.
            Thanks Mike.



            From: Mike Christian <cnrmike1989@...>
            To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 9:31 AM
            Subject: [vintageHO] Tyco Passenger Cars

             
            Not sure if these are the same cars you are talking about (Gilbert origins), But I have several sets of TYCO Canadian National passenger sets. The interesting thing about them (to me) is the cars came in 3 or 4 road numbers/names and the F9A’s came in at least 3 road numbers (not sure if all three were available in sets though). All the B units I have seen whether dummy, single or dual powered only came in one road number.
             
            Since the Canadian and American releases were different, it is possible some of these variations were only available in one Country or the other.
             
            If anyone is interested, I will post detailed data on these items.
             
            Mike


            Group: vintageHO Message: 21376 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Bowser?
            Is there still a website for Bowser?

            Thanks.in advance!

            Fred Hutberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
            Group: vintageHO Message: 21377 From: Bill Scott Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Re: Bowser?
            http://www.bowser-trains.com/

            Bill Scott


            On Aug 30, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Fred Hultberg wrote:

             

            Is there still a website for Bowser?

            Thanks.in advance!

            Fred Hutberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)


            Group: vintageHO Message: 21378 From: J. Gareth Edwards Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Re: Bowser?
            hey Fred:

            If I supplied you with a pattern to make a tender shell could you do that?

            Thanks,
            Gareth Edwards
            Richmond Hill, Ont.


            On 30 August 2013 19:31, Bill Scott <wscott@...> wrote:
             

            http://www.bowser-trains.com/


            Bill Scott


            On Aug 30, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Fred Hultberg wrote:

             

            Is there still a website for Bowser?

            Thanks.in advance!

            Fred Hutberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)





            --
            "A is A"
            ~ Aristotle

            Group: vintageHO Message: 21379 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Bowser?
            Does Bowser still have a website? I'm not having any luck...I'm lookin' for teeny rivets for valve gear and I know they have or had them.

            Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
            Group: vintageHO Message: 21380 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Re: Bowser?
            Yes,
            http://www.bowser-trains.com/
            Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


            To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
            From: fhultberg@...
            Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 17:55:50 -0700
            Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser?

             

            Does Bowser still have a website? I'm not having any luck...I'm lookin' for teeny rivets for valve gear and I know they have or had them.

            Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

            Group: vintageHO Message: 21381 From: Bill Scott Date: 8/30/2013
            Subject: Re: Bowser?
            http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/Partref1.pdf

            Scroll down to "page 94"

            Bill Scott

            You can search the Bowser website using Google.  Just type  bowser ho trains rivets


            On Aug 30, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Fred Hultberg wrote:

             

            Does Bowser still have a website? I'm not having any luck...I'm lookin' for teeny rivets for valve gear and I know they have or had them.

            Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)


            Group: vintageHO Message: 21382 From: Mike Christian Date: 8/31/2013
            Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
            Attachments :

              So were these Gilbert – Tyco cars cataloged by Tyco? The Tyco passenger cars I have are about 67 scale feet long, came in a combine, coach and boat-tailed observation with fluted (corrugated) sides. I was not aware Tyco marketed other passenger cars (if these are not the same cars). Are there photos or drawings of them anywhere (like HOSeeker.org, or a Yahoo group)? If not, would you consider posting a photo to this group? It’s always cool to find out about some unknown (to me) vintage HO piece.

               

              Mike

               

               

               

              Group: vintageHO Message: 21383 From: Mike Christian Date: 8/31/2013
              Subject: Tyco passengers cars?
              Attachments :

                 

                So were these Gilbert – Tyco cars cataloged by Tyco? The Tyco passenger cars I have are about 67 scale feet long, came in a combine, coach and boat-tailed observation with fluted (corrugated) sides. I was not aware Tyco marketed other passenger cars (if these are not the same cars). Are there photos or drawings of them anywhere (like HOSeeker.org, or a Yahoo group)? If not, would you consider posting a photo to this group? It’s always cool to find out about some unknown (to me) vintage HO piece.

                 

                Mike

                 

                Group: vintageHO Message: 21384 From: william witte Date: 8/31/2013
                Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                Go to HOseeker, 1959 Tyco Catalog for pictures.  The BO & CP passenger cars consist of  Gilbert plastic body shells on Tyco metal bottoms with Tyco trucks.
                Group: vintageHO Message: 21385 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/31/2013
                Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                Hey Mike, I know they were sold by Tyco. I really don't know if the images in the catalogs are the Gilbert shells or the Tyco shells. I'll get shots of the CP cars I have and post them to this group.
                Dom



                From: Mike Christian <cnrmike1989@...>
                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 9:30 AM
                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                 
                So were these Gilbert – Tyco cars cataloged by Tyco? The Tyco passenger cars I have are about 67 scale feet long, came in a combine, coach and boat-tailed observation with fluted (corrugated) sides. I was not aware Tyco marketed other passenger cars (if these are not the same cars). Are there photos or drawings of them anywhere (like HOSeeker.org, or a Yahoo group)? If not, would you consider posting a photo to this group? It’s always cool to find out about some unknown (to me) vintage HO piece.
                 
                Mike
                 
                 
                 


                Group: vintageHO Message: 21386 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 8/31/2013
                Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                Hi William, yep that's them. Those are the Gilbert shells. So, it is just the B&O and the CP that is found on the Gilbert cars? My Gilbert collection is complete with all the passenger sets. I've seen but never gotten the Tyco cars until recently. I have the CP consist on the shelf with the Gilbert stuff now. The CP is a nice set. Thanks for the info regarding HOseeker.
                Dominic



                From: william witte <hmbb56@...>
                To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:45 PM
                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                 
                Go to HOseeker, 1959 Tyco Catalog for pictures.  The BO & CP passenger cars consist of  Gilbert plastic body shells on Tyco metal bottoms with Tyco trucks.


                Group: vintageHO Message: 21387 From: Mike Christian Date: 9/1/2013
                Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                Attachments :

                  "william witte" hmbb56 sez:

                   

                  Go to HOseeker, 1959 Tyco Catalog for pictures.”

                  Thanx William. I have sent Larry a ton of stuff for his web site (HO Seeker) but always forget to go there to research stuff. Part of getting old, I guess.

                   

                  “The BO & CP passenger cars consist of  Gilbert plastic body shells on Tyco metal bottoms with Tyco trucks.”

                  These cars look pretty much the same as all the Tyco streamlined passenger cars I have seen. I just compared them to my CN cars and they appear to have the same shells. If that is the case, then these cars were released in CN by 1967. It appears there were quite a few road names eventually offered, in kits as well as RTR.

                   

                  I noticed in the 1967 catalog they offered the 3 car types (combine, coach & obs) in RTR but also offered 6 car types in metal kits (adding the baggage, diner & sleeper). I think these cars were the same ones offered later by Mantua as RTR.

                   

                  Mike

                   

                   

                   

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21388 From: rcjge Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: ID Vintage motor...?
                  Hey Guys:

                  I was bouncing this around with Nelson from this group and was wondering what MRR manufacturer it was from anybody???

                  Here's a link to it in my "Vimy" album.

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1502262637/pic/211531384/viewpicmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

                  -Gareth
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21389 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  On 9/1/2013 10:50 AM, Mike Christian wrote:

                  "william witte" hmbb56 sez:

                   

                  Go to HOseeker, 1959 Tyco Catalog for pictures.”

                  Thanx William. I have sent Larry a ton of stuff for his web site (HO Seeker) but always forget to go there to research stuff. Part of getting old, I guess.

                   

                  “The BO & CP passenger cars consist of  Gilbert plastic body shells on Tyco metal bottoms with Tyco trucks.”

                  These cars look pretty much the same as all the Tyco streamlined passenger cars I have seen. I just compared them to my CN cars and they appear to have the same shells. If that is the case, then these cars were released in CN by 1967. It appears there were quite a few road names eventually offered, in kits as well as RTR.

                   

                  I noticed in the 1967 catalog they offered the 3 car types (combine, coach & obs) in RTR but also offered 6 car types in metal kits (adding the baggage, diner & sleeper). I think these cars were the same ones offered later by Mantua as RTR.

                   

                  Mike

                   

                  The Mantua metal cars were definitely different (I have/had some of each).  The plastic cars were about 60-65 footers, the metal ones are about 70-72 foot, the same as Athearns.

                  Don
                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21390 From: rcjge Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21391 From: jbark76 Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?

                   

                  Is this a trick question?  It is written on the motor itself.  This is from the Knapp mountain that Bowser got.

                  --- In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21392 From: rcjge Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
                  hey There:

                  Totally overlooked that! It's rusty but it runs ok. Have to think about how to recondition it. I learned from Nelson if I remove the Armature it will ruin the magnetic field so,....

                  -Gareth
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21393 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
                  That's a tough old motor.  Give it the usual maintenance of cleaning the commutator and oiling the bearings and it will run even better.
                  Grace and Peace...  Happy Railroading...
                  Don Staton in VA
                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                  On 9/1/2013 10:25 PM, rcjge wrote:
                   

                  hey There:

                  Totally overlooked that! It's rusty but it runs ok. Have to think about how to recondition it. I learned from Nelson if I remove the Armature it will ruin the magnetic field so,....

                  -Gareth


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21394 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 9/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
                  Gareth,

                  Caution ! The prewar Knapp motor may be SIX VOLT !, mine is

                  Jake Bechtel

                  On 9/1/13, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote:
                  > hey There:
                  >
                  > Totally overlooked that! It's rusty but it runs ok. Have to think about how
                  > to recondition it. I learned from Nelson if I remove the Armature it will
                  > ruin the magnetic field so,....
                  >
                  > -Gareth
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21395 From: rcjge Date: 9/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
                  Hey Jake,

                  Ran it at about 1/2 power on a 12V so I should be ok.... I need to figure out how to clean it up without taking the armature out of the Magnet or can the magnetism be maintained. For example can a "keeper" bar be used to span the armature position?

                  I've emailed Sean from this group to see if he has any interest since he likely has a Knapp 4-8-2 Mountain.

                  -Gareth

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Gareth,
                  >
                  > Caution ! The prewar Knapp motor may be SIX VOLT !, mine is
                  >
                  > Jake Bechtel
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21396 From: shooksbronze Date: 9/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  For what its worth. The Tyco metal cars were first offered in 1954 as a
                  train set with a RF-16 sharknose as the locomotive. They were lettered
                  Tyco Streamliner. The set I have has three cars plus the engine.
                  Top Stokes


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                  To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sun, Sep 1, 2013 5:55 pm
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                  On 9/1/2013 10:50 AM, Mike Christian wrote:

                  "william
                  witte" hmbb56 sez:   “Go to
                  HOseeker, 1959 Tyco Catalog for pictures.” Thanx
                  William. I have sent Larry a ton of stuff for his web site
                  (HO Seeker) but always forget to go there to research stuff.
                  Part of getting old, I guess.   “The BO & CP
                  passenger cars consist of  Gilbert plastic body shells on
                  Tyco metal bottoms with Tyco trucks.” These cars look
                  pretty much the same as all the Tyco streamlined passenger
                  cars I have seen. I just compared them to my CN cars and
                  they appear to have the same shells. If that is the case,
                  then these cars were released in CN by 1967. It appears
                  there were quite a few road names eventually offered, in
                  kits as well as RTR.   I noticed in the 1967
                  catalog they offered the 3 car types (combine, coach & obs)
                  in RTR but also offered 6 car types in metal kits (adding
                  the baggage, diner & sleeper). I think these cars were the
                  same ones offered later by Mantua as RTR.  
                  Mike  

                  The Mantua metal cars were definitely different (I have/had
                  some of each).  The plastic cars were about 60-65 footers, the metal
                  ones are about 70-72 foot, the same as Athearns.

                  Don
                  -- Don
                  Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann
                  /Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21397 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 9/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: ID Vintage motor...?
                  Sure resembles the Bowser Super motor in my ol' Challenger. Incredible - strong and smooth.

                  I think the huge magnet is the way to go...yeah, I know it's a small armature, but it never seems to get hot, no matter how I mistreat it. Yeah, I was suspicious at first but now I'm a fan! Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21398 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 9/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  Gentlemen, since I posted my question regarding the Gilbert shells, I have picked up a shorter chrome Tyco B&O passenger car. Are not the Tyco cars usually a shorter body having one less window than the Gilbert shells?
                  Dominic


                  From: "Dst8596587@..." <Dst8596587@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 10:01 AM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                   
                  For what its worth. The Tyco metal cars were first offered in 1954 as a
                  train set with a RF-16 sharknose as the locomotive. They were lettered
                  Tyco Streamliner. The set I have has three cars plus the engine.
                  Top Stokes

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                  To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sun, Sep 1, 2013 5:55 pm
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                  On 9/1/2013 10:50 AM, Mike Christian wrote:

                  "william
                  witte" hmbb56 sez:   “Go to
                  HOseeker, 1959 Tyco Catalog for pictures.” Thanx
                  William. I have sent Larry a ton of stuff for his web site
                  (HO Seeker) but always forget to go there to research stuff.
                  Part of getting old, I guess.   “The BO & CP
                  passenger cars consist of  Gilbert plastic body shells on
                  Tyco metal bottoms with Tyco trucks.” These cars look
                  pretty much the same as all the Tyco streamlined passenger
                  cars I have seen. I just compared them to my CN cars and
                  they appear to have the same shells. If that is the case,
                  then these cars were released in CN by 1967. It appears
                  there were quite a few road names eventually offered, in
                  kits as well as RTR.   I noticed in the 1967
                  catalog they offered the 3 car types (combine, coach & obs)
                  in RTR but also offered 6 car types in metal kits (adding
                  the baggage, diner & sleeper). I think these cars were the
                  same ones offered later by Mantua as RTR.  
                  Mike  

                  The Mantua metal cars were definitely different (I have/had
                  some of each).  The plastic cars were about 60-65 footers, the metal
                  ones are about 70-72 foot, the same as Athearns.

                  Don
                  -- Don
                  Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann
                  /Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21399 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  On 9/2/2013 10:35 AM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                  Gentlemen, since I posted my question regarding the Gilbert shells, I have picked up a shorter chrome Tyco B&O passenger car. Are not the Tyco cars usually a shorter body having one less window than the Gilbert shells?
                  Dominic



                  I recently sent my last Gilbert car to another list member, but as I recall the Gilbert and and Mantua plastic shells were the same length, and did work well together, but there were minor differences suggesting a different die.

                  Don

                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21400 From: Dale F. Smith Date: 9/4/2013
                  Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  I believe Dom is correct.   I have tried to find the Tyco by Gilbert cars on Ebay and they seem to be few and far between.   Every Tyco streamliner (Plastic)  I have found on Ebay has one less window on each car than the Gilbert cars.  Also, it isn't very helpful that the Gilbert Catalogs show fewer windows than the actual models on the coach and Vistadome, 6 rather than 8 for the coach, and a coach arrangement for the very different Vistadome.  See http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/33540.htm and following pages for illustrations.

                  Dale

                  On 9/2/2013 1:09 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                   

                  On 9/2/2013 10:35 AM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                  Gentlemen, since I posted my question regarding the Gilbert shells, I have picked up a shorter chrome Tyco B&O passenger car. Are not the Tyco cars usually a shorter body having one less window than the Gilbert shells?
                  Dominic



                  I recently sent my last Gilbert car to another list member, but as I recall the Gilbert and and Mantua plastic shells were the same length, and did work well together, but there were minor differences suggesting a different die.

                  Don

                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21401 From: Van B. Campbell Date: 9/4/2013
                  Subject: Wanted: Tyco New Haven C430
                  I'm looking for a Tyco Model T235B Alco Century C430 to replace a missing piece in a 1967 vintage Tyco T6706A set. I'm seeking a "mint in box" unit but I will consider any offers on a piece that is in reasonable condition. Anyone that might be able to supply one of these please email me with pics and asking price.

                  Van B. Campbell
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21402 From: E Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Hi guys,

                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a few more details.

                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?


                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21403 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  What a great kit to re-make !!!!


                  Thank you for posting it.

                  Even the outline of the sorta E-unit on the box label looks like an interesting project. That should fire up my cad studies.


                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Sep 5, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "E" <hogheaded2001@...> wrote:

                  > Hi guys,
                  >
                  > A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a few more details.
                  >
                  > Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > E.O. Gibson
                  > Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21404 From: Richard Dipping Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Hello, E.O.-
                   
                  I have a Future Designs steel caboose kit (cardboard and wood construction).  I was surprised to find their business address on North Kedzie Ave. in Chicago.  It was just a few blocks from my home.  They apparently went out of business before WWII.
                   
                  Richard.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: E <hogheaded2001@...>
                  To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 9:08 am
                  Subject: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?

                  Hi guys,
                  
                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" 
                  kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs 
                  R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit 
                  instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a 
                  few more details.
                  
                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  
                  
                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  
                  
                  
                  ------------------------------------
                  
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                  
                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  
                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional
                  
                  <*> To change settings online go to:
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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21405 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Interesting comment about the cardboard and wood construction of that period. Ideal Aeroplane & Supply of New York did a kit of a 150 ton wrecker of cardboard and wood (trucks were included) that had various working functions and was probably state-of-the-art of that construction. Bro did one in 1943 which we still have. Never did find out exactly when that first came out, but I've managed to find kits on eBay of which I have built 6!
                  Art W
                  In a message dated 9/5/2013 8:26:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, richarddipping@... writes:


                  Hello, E.O.-
                   
                  I have a Future Designs steel caboose kit (cardboard and wood construction).  I was surprised to find their business address on North Kedzie Ave. in Chicago.  It was just a few blocks from my home.  They apparently went out of business before WWII.
                   
                  Richard.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: E <hogheaded2001@...>
                  To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 9:08 am
                  Subject: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?

                  Hi guys,
                  
                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" 
                  kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs 
                  R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit 
                  instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a 
                  few more details.
                  
                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  
                  
                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  
                  
                  
                  ------------------------------------
                  
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                  
                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  
                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional
                  
                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)
                  
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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21406 From: John Barlow Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
                  I apologize for changing the subject a bit, but I recently acquired a Megow Kit Q27 Pennsylvania 70GR (I think it is a PRR P70GR.) The letter font on the car sides looks Futura that the PRR used between 1937 and 1941, which might narrow the time frame in which the kit was created. Anyone know much about the firm?
                   
                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                  From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                   
                  Hello, E.O.-
                   
                  I have a Future Designs steel caboose kit (cardboard and wood construction).  I was surprised to find their business address on North Kedzie Ave. in Chicago.  It was just a few blocks from my home.  They apparently went out of business before WWII.
                   
                  Richard.
                  -----Original Message----- From: E <hogheaded2001@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 9:08 am Subject: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Hi guys,
                  
                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" 
                  kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs 
                  R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit 
                  instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a 
                  few more details.
                  
                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  
                  
                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  
                  
                  
                  ------------------------------------
                  
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                  
                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  
                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional
                  
                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)
                  
                  <*> To change settings via email:
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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21407 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-El...
                  There are various histories on line of the Megow family and how they got started in model airplanes and progressed to railroad models.
                   
                  In a message dated 9/5/2013 9:00:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jdenver4150@... writes:


                  I apologize for changing the subject a bit, but I recently acquired a Megow Kit Q27 Pennsylvania 70GR (I think it is a PRR P70GR.) The letter font on the car sides looks Futura that the PRR used between 1937 and 1941, which might narrow the time frame in which the kit was created. Anyone know much about the firm?
                   
                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                  From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                   
                  Hello, E.O.-
                   
                  I have a Future Designs steel caboose kit (cardboard and wood construction).  I was surprised to find their business address on North Kedzie Ave. in Chicago.  It was just a few blocks from my home.  They apparently went out of business before WWII.
                   
                  Richard.
                  -----Original Message----- From: E <hogheaded2001@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 9:08 am Subject: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Hi guys,
                  
                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" 
                  kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs 
                  R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit 
                  instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a 
                  few more details.
                  
                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  
                  
                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  
                  
                  
                  ------------------------------------
                  
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                  
                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  
                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional
                  
                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)
                  
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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21408 From: E Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  So Future Designs also made a caboose - that's a good start. The G-E kit box shows what I think are an IC Green Diamond loco, a Lockheed Hudson and a Ford automobile, so I wonder if they produced kits in those transportation areas too. As to my kit, I'm dithering about whether or not I should fix 'er up to run on the layout. I don't want to ruin a rare model (if it indeed is rare) by adding 'improvements' to make it more prototypical. Hmm, hmm...

                  - E.O.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21409 From: E Date: 9/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Well Mike, I'm kinda dithering about what to do with it - leave it as-is, or fix 'er up to run on the layout. It pretty much depends what I can find out about the kit: rare or not.

                  I think that the "sorta E" may be the IC Green Diamond; the airplane, a Lockheed Hudson; the auto, a Ford. I wonder if they produced any of these. Pretty intriguing stuff!

                  - E.O.

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > What a great kit to re-make !!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you for posting it.
                  >
                  > Even the outline of the sorta E-unit on the box label looks like an interesting project. That should fire up my cad studies.
                  >
                  >
                  > Mike Bauers
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sep 5, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "E" <hogheaded2001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi guys,
                  > >
                  > > A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a few more details.
                  > >
                  > > Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > > E.O. Gibson
                  > > Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21410 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/6/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  I'd keep it as is and build some sort of duplicate. The model is a great slice of a type of motive power that while typical of it's era is rarely modeled.

                  Your find reminded me of a website I found a few years ago that contained the drawings of proposed PRR diesels that were being studied around 1920. They seemed to go all over the map for semi-streamlined boxcabs to very un-streamlined boxcabs and cabs on almost flatcars and engine hoods. [ a site I lost the address on, but saved all of the drawings ] I'll attach one.

                  Pre-E and pre-F types of locomotives sure had a huge amount of variations.

                  I think the logo just remained their logo.

                  However...... I have seen some very interesting cast metal HO 'kits' go through eBay in the last couple of years. One was a sorta ACF pair of lead and trailer 'motorailer' of the decorated streamliner era type of styling, and a sorta streamlined Gas electric pair of lead and trailer that was not as streamlined, yet definitely made with some custom cast ends. It's on my Fall re-hab 'schedule'.

                  I tried for the ACF unit and lost, but won on the Gas Electric. Still captured all possible images from the auctions in case I could make the like for myself one day.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Sep 5, 2013, at 6:33 PM, "E" <hogheaded2001@...> wrote:

                  Well Mike, I'm kinda dithering about what to do with it - leave it as-is, or fix 'er up to run on the layout. It pretty much depends what I can find out about the kit: rare or not.

                  I think that the "sorta E" may be the IC Green Diamond; the airplane, a Lockheed Hudson; the auto, a Ford. I wonder if they produced any of these. Pretty intriguing stuff!

                  - E.O.

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

                  What a great kit to re-make !!!!


                  Thank you for posting it.

                  Even the outline of the sorta E-unit on the box label looks like an interesting project. That should fire up my cad studies.


                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Sep 5, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "E" <hogheaded2001@...> wrote:

                  Hi guys,

                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a few more details.

                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?


                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21411 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/6/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  I also got one of those cranes last year.

                  I kept it as a study on how to make a laser kit like it. More of a pipe-dream on my part. But I am planning on getting one of those machines this month.

                  I sure do like the size of that wrecker.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:34 PM, luvprr@... wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Interesting comment about the cardboard and wood construction of that period. Ideal Aeroplane & Supply of New York did a kit of a 150 ton wrecker of cardboard and wood (trucks were included) that had various working functions and was probably state-of-the-art of that construction. Bro did one in 1943 which we still have. Never did find out exactly when that first came out, but I've managed to find kits on eBay of which I have built 6!
                  > Art W
                  > In a message dated 9/5/2013 8:26:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, richarddipping@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello, E.O.-
                  >
                  > I have a Future Designs steel caboose kit (cardboard and wood construction). I was surprised to find their business address on North Kedzie Ave. in Chicago. It was just a few blocks from my home. They apparently went out of business before WWII.
                  >
                  > Richard.
                  .........
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21412 From: Mike Date: 9/6/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  The instructions make it look like the buyer is expected to make the roof appliance parts.

                  Mike Bauers

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "E" <hogheaded2001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi guys,
                  >
                  > A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a few more details.
                  >
                  > Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > E.O. Gibson
                  > Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21413 From: jay matz Date: 9/6/2013
                  Subject: Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  If you go to North East Rails web site under motor cars there is two photos of the car.
                  Jay



                  From: Mike <mwbauers55@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 7:31 AM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?

                   
                  The instructions make it look like the buyer is expected to make the roof appliance parts.

                  Mike Bauers

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "E" <hogheaded2001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi guys,
                  >
                  > A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a few more details.
                  >
                  > Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > E.O. Gibson
                  > Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  >



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21414 From: John Webster Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21415 From: Jim Waterman Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
                  Thanks for the link – what an incredible story. Interesting to note that model railroad equipment came late and was a small part of their business.
                   
                  More interesting is how Megow built a big business during the depression but was unable to restart after the war! I own a few Megow PRR coaches. Now I know how and where they were made. I noticed in Google street view that the factory they moved into in 1935 at Howard and Oxford in Philly is still standing and in use.
                   
                  Jim Waterman
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21416 From: anypaddler Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.

                  What I find interesting is that Fred Megow complained about new banking regulations that were enacted after WW II, when it was bank failures, like the one that Mr. Megow himself suffered in the 1930s, that were the impetus for the new regulations.  From his own description of the early years of the company, it sounds like Megow's was playing fast and loose with "letters of credit," while postwar regulations required banks and borrowers to do business on more than faith.  I could be wrong.

                   

                  Ralph Balfoort 



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21417 From: nvrr49@yahoo.com Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Roundhouse 2-4-4-0 kitbash
                  I think this old kit qualifies as vintage.  See some pictures at the link below.  Thank you for looking.

                   
                  Kent Hurley
                  Kansas City, MO
                  Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21418 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: Roundhouse 2-4-4-0 kitbash
                  I'd like to suggest an old method of mine.

                  I got spray cans of primer. A black primer and a rusty red looking primer.

                  I shot the model in a light mottled application of the rusty red without trying to completely cover the black plastic model. 

                  Then I used the black primer and lightly over painted some of the model with it. Waiting just a few minutes between sprays, I switched back and forth between the primer red and the primer black, fogging with each so that it appeared to have rust coming through the fading paint.

                  I'll upload a couple of images by tomorrow.

                  The method worked quite well. You might like to try it on a junk freight car shell to get a feel for it.

                  I finished the model with some thin boards on the stack, seemingly held down by a small round aquarium pebble ( now missing ). 

                  I think I used the same thin veneer wood to board over the cab windows and plopped a 'For Sale' sign on the model.

                  This was a plastic steamer tank engine kit that I bought in the first year of being in the hobby back in my grade school days and rushed to assemble without noticing that the wheels had to be assembled in the right pairing to have correct quartering. The glue worked quite well for assembly and finishing the assembly with a 'broken' main rod gave it the look of a reason for it to be set out on a siding of a RR that was under-funded. 

                   Maybe it's time I finished that static display ?

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "nvrr49@..." <nvrr49@...> wrote:

                  I think this old kit qualifies as vintage.  See some pictures at the link below.  Thank you for looking.

                   
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21419 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Old Airfix
                  Attachments :
                  This is from the dawn of my model railroading. I lightly weathered it with spray cans of primer red and primer black.

                  Each color was dusted on until I liked what I saw.
                    @@attachment@@
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21420 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Old Airfix tanker
                  Here's a side view. The model was assembled in haste ages ago and axle quartering got both messed up and locked in the frame.

                  This model was completed as a good use of that mistake.

                  I think I'll finish her up and make that scene I wanted for her.

                  The weathering was just a fogging of primer red and primer black with a bit of an artistic touch.





                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21421 From: trainliker Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.
                  
                  A letter of credit is usually done through a financial institution where that institution itself is guaranteeing to the seller that the buyer funds are available and will be paid at the agreed time.  It is a method used for international trade to this day, is exceedinbly common, and there is nothing "fast and loose" about it whatsoever.  Actually, just the opposite.
                   
                  A letter of credit is not "faith" because a financial institution will be rather unwilling to make the guarantee if you don't have funding or known pending funding (such as a percentage of known accounts receivable) in your account(s) with them or some other guaranteed asset that the financial institution can access.
                   
                  If there was anything at all in that article that might suggest that Megow played "fast and loose" (exept for perhaps running a bit more of a factory in a residence than would be typical), I must have missed it.  Incidentally, especially in model railroading, I have heard the term "garage operation" often used with reverence.
                   
                  Chuck Kinzer
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 2:14 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:&quot;Future Designs&quot; 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr

                   

                  What I find interesting is that Fred Megow complained about new banking regulations that were enacted after WW II, when it was bank failures, like the one that Mr. Megow himself suffered in the 1930s, that were the impetus for the new regulations.  From his own description of the early years of the company, it sounds like Megow's was playing fast and loose with "letters of credit," while postwar regulations required banks and borrowers to do business on more than faith.  I could be wrong.

                   

                  Ralph Balfoort 



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21422 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/7/2013
                  Subject: Old Airfix tanker
                  [since the last one might have gone strange on me, heres a second try of the second shot]

                  Here's a side view. The model was assembled in haste ages ago and axle quartering got both messed up and locked in the frame.

                  This model was completed as a good use of that mistake.

                  I think I'll finish her up and make that scene I wanted for her.

                  The weathering was just a fogging of primer red and primer black with a bit of an artistic touch.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, U



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21423 From: Dave Audley Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: Old Airfix tanker
                  There are actually Airfix parts available through hobby shops in Briton! You
                  can find these by Googling.
                  Dave Audley

                  --------------------------------------------
                  On Sat, 9/7/13, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old Airfix tanker
                  To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Received: Saturday, September 7, 2013, 11:21 PM

                  [since the last
                  one might have gone strange on me, heres a second try of the
                  second shot]
                  Here's a side view. The model was assembled
                  in haste ages ago and axle quartering got both messed up and
                  locked in the frame.

                  This model was
                  completed as a good use of that mistake.

                  I think
                  I'll finish her up and make that scene I wanted for
                  her.

                  The weathering was just a fogging of primer red and
                  primer black with a bit of an artistic
                  touch.
                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, U
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21424 From: anypaddler Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.

                   Chuck Kinzer wrote:

                  A letter of credit is usually done through a financial institution where that institution itself is guaranteeing to the seller that the buyer funds are available and will be paid at the agreed time.  It is a method used for international trade to this day, is exceedingly common, and there is nothing "fast and loose" about it whatsoever.  Actually, just the opposite.
                   
                  A letter of credit is not "faith" because a financial institution will be rather unwilling to make the guarantee if you don't have funding or known pending funding (such as a percentage of known accounts receivable) in your account(s) with them or some other guaranteed asset that the financial institution can access.
                  ----------------------------------------
                  That's what happens today, but did it always happen pre-regulation?  Could the bank have been issuing letters of credit without the buyer actually having sufficient funds, current and/or pending, to actually cover the amount?  The bank could have been, in effect, giving the buyer a no-interest loan based on prior experience, not on sound financial accounting.  Could Fred Megow's dislike of postwar banking regulations actually have to do with his not having sufficient funds?
                   
                  The recent meltdown of the financial community shows that some people are still playing "fast and loose" with other people's money.  Comparing 1930s banking practices to today's is like saying, "Same circus, different clowns."
                   
                  Ralph Balfoort 


                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  
                  A letter of credit is usually done through a financial institution where that institution itself is guaranteeing to the seller that the buyer funds are available and will be paid at the agreed time.  It is a method used for international trade to this day, is exceedinbly common, and there is nothing "fast and loose" about it whatsoever.  Actually, just the opposite.
                   
                  A letter of credit is not "faith" because a financial institution will be rather unwilling to make the guarantee if you don't have funding or known pending funding (such as a percentage of known accounts receivable) in your account(s) with them or some other guaranteed asset that the financial institution can access.
                   
                  If there was anything at all in that article that might suggest that Megow played "fast and loose" (exept for perhaps running a bit more of a factory in a residence than would be typical), I must have missed it.  Incidentally, especially in model railroading, I have heard the term "garage operation" often used with reverence.
                   
                  Chuck Kinzer
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 2:14 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:&quot;Future Designs&quot; 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr

                   

                  What I find interesting is that Fred Megow complained about new banking regulations that were enacted after WW II, when it was bank failures, like the one that Mr. Megow himself suffered in the 1930s, that were the impetus for the new regulations.  From his own description of the early years of the company, it sounds like Megow's was playing fast and loose with  "letters of credit," while postwar regulations required banks and borrowers to do business on more than faith.  I could be wrong.

                   

                  Ralph Balfoort 



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21425 From: John Barlow Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
                  Thank you, Ralph.
                   
                  I was born and raised in Philadelphia, knowing that city had its share of model manufacturers and
                  importers over the decades. Looking at the trade directories, it seems to be a modeler's wasteland now. I would say Megow was leaving the modelers' world (out of business) as I was coming into this one. I'll treat this one car kit I have with the respect it deserves.
                   
                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                  From: "Alpvalsys@..." <Alpvalsys@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 3:14 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
                   
                  What I find interesting is that Fred Megow complained about new banking regulations that were enacted after WW II, when it was bank failures, like the one that Mr. Megow himself suffered in the 1930s, that were the impetus for the new regulations.  From his own description of the early years of the company, it sounds like Megow's was playing fast and loose with "letters of credit," while postwar regulations required banks and borrowers to do business on more than faith.  I could be wrong.
                   
                  Ralph Balfoort 
                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21426 From: trainliker Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I.
                  
                  As far as I know, a letter of credit has always been as I described.  But since this is off topic, contact me off list if you want to discuss further but I'm not inclined to respond to a litany of conjecture, only known facts.
                   
                  Chuck Kinzer
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 10:01 AM
                  Subject: RE: Re: [vintageHO] RE: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:&quot;Future Designs&quot; 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr

                   

                   Chuck Kinzer wrote:

                  A letter of credit is usually done through a financial institution where that institution itself is guaranteeing to the seller that the buyer funds are available and will be paid at the agreed time.  It is a method used for international trade to this day, is exceedingly common, and there is nothing "fast and loose" about it whatsoever.  Actually, just the opposite.
                   
                  A letter of credit is not "faith" because a financial institution will be rather unwilling to make the guarantee if you don't have funding or known pending funding (such as a percentage of known accounts receivable) in your account(s) with them or some other guaranteed asset that the financial institution can access.
                  ----------------------------------------
                  That's what happens today, but did it always happen pre-regulation?  Could the bank have been issuing letters of credit without the buyer actually having sufficient funds, current and/or pending, to actually cover the amount?  The bank could have been, in effect, giving the buyer a no-interest loan based on prior experience, not on sound financial accounting.  Could Fred Megow's dislike of postwar banking regulations actually have to do with his not having sufficient funds?
                   
                  The recent meltdown of the financial community shows that some people are still playing "fast and loose" with other people's money.  Comparing 1930s banking practices to today's is like saying, "Same circus, different clowns."
                   
                  Ralph Balfoort 


                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  
                  A letter of credit is usually done through a financial institution where that institution itself is guaranteeing to the seller that the buyer funds are available and will be paid at the agreed time.  It is a method used for international trade to this day, is exceedinbly common, and there is nothing "fast and loose" about it whatsoever.  Actually, just the opposite.
                   
                  A letter of credit is not "faith" because a financial institution will be rather unwilling to make the guarantee if you don't have funding or known pending funding (such as a percentage of known accounts receivable) in your account(s) with them or some other guaranteed asset that the financial institution can access.
                   
                  If there was anything at all in that article that might suggest that Megow played "fast and loose" (exept for perhaps running a bit more of a factory in a residence than would be typical), I must have missed it.  Incidentally, especially in model railroading, I have heard the term "garage operation" often used with reverence.
                   
                  Chuck Kinzer
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 2:14 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:&quot;Future Designs&quot; 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr

                   

                  What I find interesting is that Fred Megow complained about new banking regulations that were enacted after WW II, when it was bank failures, like the one that Mr. Megow himself suffered in the 1930s, that were the impetus for the new regulations.  From his own description of the early years of the company, it sounds like Megow's was playing fast and loose with  "letters of credit," while postwar regulations required banks and borrowers to do business on more than faith.  I could be wrong.

                   

                  Ralph Balfoort 



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21427 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electr
                  All,

                  I've been away for almost a week, trying to wade through all the posts about  Megows.

                  I've got a number of their offerings. Seems they made a lot of B&O cars - a B&O caboose based on a homebuild, a steel gondola, B&O. 2-bay hoppers (B&O, Pennsy, CCC&St:L are three roadnames I have), a wagontop boxcar (B&O of course), and 40' steel boxcars in various roadnames.

                  The boxcars seem to have varying quality of materials. Some have thicker paper sides, others of a paper that is much more flimsy and tatters nowadays, sort of like old newspaper material.

                  They also made a strange stamped metal truck that lacked all detail, and a stamped metal coupler that was a very cheap and inferior version of a Mantua Automatic.

                  They made refrigerator cars too. I think I have one hanging around somewhere.

                  The hoppers are more often than not found in ratty condition, as the sides were very thin. Easy to damage over the years since they were made. But when restored, they can be nice cars, and impressive to look at considering the material. The same can be said for the gondolas too.

                  I have a few of their Pennsy P70 type coaches. These have a foil-like stamped side and feel more "substantial" than their freight cars usually do.

                  Thanks
                  -Steve Neubaum



                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                  To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:00 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] And Who Was Megow? (was:"Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?

                   
                  I apologize for changing the subject a bit, but I recently acquired a Megow Kit Q27 Pennsylvania 70GR (I think it is a PRR P70GR.) The letter font on the car sides looks Futura that the PRR used between 1937 and 1941, which might narrow the time frame in which the kit was created. Anyone know much about the firm?
                   
                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                  From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                   
                  Hello, E.O.-
                   
                  I have a Future Designs steel caboose kit (cardboard and wood construction).  I was surprised to find their business address on North Kedzie Ave. in Chicago.  It was just a few blocks from my home.  They apparently went out of business before WWII.
                   
                  Richard.
                  -----Original Message----- From: E <hogheaded2001@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 9:08 am Subject: [vintageHO] "Future Designs" 1938 HO R.I. Gas-Electric - What-the?
                  Hi guys,
                  
                  A few years back I picked-up a cast lead Rock Island gas-electric HO "two rail" 
                  kit produced by Future Designs circa 1938. I've placed a PDF ("Future Designs 
                  R.I G-E") in the files section that contains photos of the model, the kit 
                  instruction sheet and the front of the box. The accompanying "readme" file has a 
                  few more details.
                  
                  Does anyone know anything about the kit, or Future Designs?
                  
                  
                  Regards,
                  E.O. Gibson
                  Wx4.org: The Dome O' Foam
                  
                  
                  
                  ------------------------------------
                  
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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21428 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: Old Airfix tanker
                  Thank you.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Sep 8, 2013, at 5:13 AM, Dave Audley <audleydave@...> wrote:

                  > There are actually Airfix parts available through hobby shops in Briton! You
                  > can find these by Googling.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21429 From: peytonharvey82 Date: 9/8/2013
                  Subject: FS: 8 - AHM Steam Locomotives

                  I have for sale a number of AHM Steam Locomotives.  All of these have been stored for over 30 years and have very little running time and are in Mint condition.  All of them do run (non track testing). There are no bent or broken parts. There are no scratches or faded printing.  They come in original boxes and plastic inserts which are in fair to good shape.  I have at least 10-12 pictures of each loco if you want to see what you are purchasing.

                   

                  1.      1 each - AHM 0-8-0 AT&SF w/tender and Power Booster Truck…  $62.00

                  2.      1 each - AHM 0-8-0 Missouri Pacific w/tender and Power Booster Truck… $62.00

                  3.      1 each - AHM 2-8-4 Pere Marquette #1222 in the “American Classic” Box… $62.00

                  4.      1 each - AHM 4-4-0 Virginia & Truckee “Genoa”…  $69.00

                  5.      1 each - AHM 4-6-0 Illinois Central #382 “Casey Jones”… $69.00

                  6.      2 each - AHM 4-6-2 AT&SF #3423 Heavy Pacific in the “American Classic” Box….  $79.00

                  7.      1 each - AHM 4-8-8-2 Southern Pacific #4272 “Cab Forward”…. $105.00

                   

                                 I will accept PayPal, personal check, or Money Order.  Shipping will be exactly what USPS will charge me. Please contact me at peytonwi@...

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21430 From: Dave Audley Date: 9/9/2013
                  Subject: Re: Old Airfix tanker
                  The shop I dealt with in Briton was Norfolk Coast Models www.norfolkcoastmodels.com
                  They were very helpful! Be aware however, that shipping costs may exceed the cost of the
                  parts you order. If you have more than 1 engine to fix, order all the parts at the same time!
                  The steamer I got parts for was the Airfix 2-6-2T unit. It was for a friend who rode behind
                  these to school in a gentler era!
                  Dave Audley

                  --------------------------------------------
                  On Sun, 9/8/13, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Airfix tanker
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Sunday, September 8, 2013, 7:20 PM
















                   









                  Thank you.



                  Best to ya...

                  Mike Bauers

                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Sep 8, 2013, at 5:13 AM, Dave Audley
                  <audleydave@...> wrote:



                  > There are actually Airfix parts available through hobby
                  shops in Briton! You

                  > can find these by Googling.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21431 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 9/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  I'd like to ask another question to this group if I could. It's for a little research on my part and to try prove or disprove a theory I have. The Tyco chromed shell B&O Royal Blue 930 passenger car, what year or years was it cataloged? Thanks for your help vintage HO guys.
                  Dominic



                  From: Dale F. Smith <dalefsmith@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 3:10 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                   
                  I believe Dom is correct.   I have tried to find the Tyco by Gilbert cars on Ebay and they seem to be few and far between.   Every Tyco streamliner (Plastic)  I have found on Ebay has one less window on each car than the Gilbert cars.  Also, it isn't very helpful that the Gilbert Catalogs show fewer windows than the actual models on the coach and Vistadome, 6 rather than 8 for the coach, and a coach arrangement for the very different Vistadome.  See http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/33540.htm and following pages for illustrations.

                  Dale

                  On 9/2/2013 1:09 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                   
                  On 9/2/2013 10:35 AM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                  Gentlemen, since I posted my question regarding the Gilbert shells, I have picked up a shorter chrome Tyco B&O passenger car. Are not the Tyco cars usually a shorter body having one less window than the Gilbert shells?
                  Dominic



                  I recently sent my last Gilbert car to another list member, but as I recall the Gilbert and and Mantua plastic shells were the same length, and did work well together, but there were minor differences suggesting a different die.

                  Don

                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21432 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/14/2013
                  Subject: Chroming Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  This reminds me and has me wondering.

                  I've been following the latest Chrome painting developments and it is to the point that if you use a certain base paint and an Alclad stainless steel or chrome paint, you get a painted model that when held near a real stainless RR car is an identical match.

                  I wonder how the vintage chrome plated models compare to that?

                  Maybe it's worth the trouble to restore aged and less valued swap-meet level model passenger cars to bring them back to first class level appearance and save them from the dust bin.

                  I'd like to play with the idea and see if this paint makes a swap meet discard into a first class model ready for a second life.

                  A link in depth on the paint with lots of examples.

                  http://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=22188.15

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Sep 14, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:

                  I'd like to ask another question to this group if I could. It's for a little research on my part and to try prove or disprove a theory I have. The Tyco chromed shell B&O Royal Blue 930 passenger car, what year or years was it cataloged? Thanks for your help vintage HO guys.
                  Dominic



                  From: Dale F. Smith <dalefsmith@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 3:10 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco passengers cars?

                   
                  I believe Dom is correct.   I have tried to find the Tyco by Gilbert cars on Ebay and they seem to be few and far between.   Every Tyco streamliner (Plastic)  I have found on Ebay has one less window on each car than the Gilbert cars.  Also, it isn't very helpful that the Gilbert Catalogs show fewer windows than the actual models on the coach and Vistadome, 6 rather than 8 for the coach, and a coach arrangement for the very different Vistadome.  See http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/33540.htm and following pages for illustrations.

                  Dale

                  On 9/2/2013 1:09 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                   
                  On 9/2/2013 10:35 AM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                  Gentlemen, since I posted my question regarding the Gilbert shells, I have picked up a shorter chrome Tyco B&O passenger car. Are not the Tyco cars usually a shorter body having one less window than the Gilbert shells?
                  Dominic



                  I recently sent my last Gilbert car to another list member, but as I recall the Gilbert and and Mantua plastic shells were the same length, and did work well together, but there were minor differences suggesting a different die.

                  Don

                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21433 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Chroming Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  On 9/14/2013 1:07 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                  This reminds me and has me wondering.

                  I've been following the latest Chrome painting developments and it is to the point that if you use a certain base paint and an Alclad stainless steel or chrome paint, you get a painted model that when held near a real stainless RR car is an identical match.

                  I wonder how the vintage chrome plated models compare to that?

                  Maybe it's worth the trouble to restore aged and less valued swap-meet level model passenger cars to bring them back to first class level appearance and save them from the dust bin.

                  I'd like to play with the idea and see if this paint makes a swap meet discard into a first class model ready for a second life.

                  A link in depth on the paint with lots of examples.

                  http://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=22188.15

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone

                  Got any 1:25car models around?  The vintage "plated" models used the same vacuum plating as the "chrome" on the model car kits.

                  Don
                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21434 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Chroming Re: Tyco passengers cars?
                  I've got a couple of those.

                  I'll compare..........

                  I have a couple of bundles of assorted used RR passenger cars to restore. There may be a plated RR car in there.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Sep 14, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > On 9/14/2013 1:07 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                  >> This reminds me and has me wondering.
                  >>
                  >> I've been following the latest Chrome painting developments and it is to the point that if you use a certain base paint and an Alclad stainless steel or chrome paint, you get a painted model that when held near a real stainless RR car is an identical match.
                  >>
                  >> I wonder how the vintage chrome plated models compare to that?............
                  >>
                  > Got any 1:25car models around? The vintage "plated" models used the same vacuum plating as the "chrome" on the model car kits.
                  >
                  > Don
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21435 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/14/2013
                  Subject: Kato GP40
                  Hey folks,
                  I'm looking for a replacement shell for my Kato GP40 as my young grandkids did a number on one of mine--as careful as they have tried to be. I really don't care what road name and will be happy to pay something reasonable along with shipping for course. Hate to junk it as it runs very well otherwise.
                  Thanks!
                  Art Waite
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21436 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 9/15/2013
                  Subject: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
                  Attachments :
                  Can anyone in this group tell me anything about this car? I guess it is a Tyco car? What year it might be from? I've been searching for one like it and all I find are the cars with the blue band over the windows. Is this an earlier car than the higher blue band? I'd be grateful for any help from the Tyco guys, or anyone else for the matter.
                  Thanks, Dominic
                    @@attachment@@
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21437 From: Dave Audley Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ? [1 Attachment]
                  This looks more like an "OK streamline" car from Herkimer. These are still
                  available under the "OK Streamliner" brand.
                  Dave Audley

                  --------------------------------------------
                  On Sun, 9/15/13, DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:

                  Subject: [vintageHO] B&O Royel Blue coach ? [1 Attachment]
                  To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Received: Sunday, September 15, 2013, 3:47 PM
















                   









                  [Attachment(s) from DOM ST.JOHN included
                  below]


                  Can anyone
                  in this group tell me anything about this car? I guess it is
                  a Tyco car? What year it might be from? I've been
                  searching for one like it and all I find are the cars with
                  the blue band over the windows. Is this an earlier car than
                  the higher blue band? I'd be grateful for any help from
                  the Tyco guys, or anyone else for the matter.Thanks,
                  Dominic
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21438 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
                  On 9/16/2013 6:41 AM, Dave Audley wrote:
                  > This looks more like an "OK streamline" car from Herkimer. These are still
                  > available under the "OK Streamliner" brand.
                  > Dave Audley
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------
                  >
                  No, it's definitely a Tyco. You can tell it's molded, the OK
                  streamliners were all extruded aluminum so the detail was much flatter
                  and the baggage doors were just printed silver on celluloid.

                  Don

                  --
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21439 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
                  And, my biggest complaint about the OK's and their predecessors, the vestibule doors are from aluminum sheet metal with a small window and no other detail. Their size is too small too. Anybody know a way to "fix" them?


                  On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                   

                  On 9/16/2013 6:41 AM, Dave Audley wrote:
                  > This looks more like an "OK streamline" car from Herkimer. These are still
                  > available under the "OK Streamliner" brand.
                  > Dave Audley
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------
                  >
                  No, it's definitely a Tyco. You can tell it's molded, the OK
                  streamliners were all extruded aluminum so the detail was much flatter
                  and the baggage doors were just printed silver on celluloid.

                  Don

                  --
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/




                  --
                  Regards,
                  Walter
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21440 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ?
                  The Walthers catalog used to carry detail parts from company that made great doors for modern passenger cars. I haven't gone through one of those for years and am not sure if the stuff is still carried.

                  Other options are to find a pair of doors you like on a discarded or junk passenger car, remove them, and cold cast them with an Alumite or SmoothOn starter/sampler kit to have as many as you need.

                  Some model rr cars have an end insert with the side doors attached. Duping one of those should work well.

                  You'll have to open the carside cut-outs for the more scale doors. That's a matter of marking the new opening, clamping some sort of straight-edge to the cut-line and casually jewelers saw and file to size. A good scribed line with something like an awl or hard tipped scriber would be helpful.

                  Jewelers saws are darned handy tools and modestly priced. Buy lots of blades to go with one, it takes a bit of experience to make your individual blades last long, small bundles of them are almost cheap through arts and craft sources, Amazon.com would be a great source.

                  You need a way to secure the car body to work on it. Clamped between boards in a bench vice. Clamped with boards to a bench top. Preferably in a reposition-able holder of some kind. Even clamped into a regular miter box with the car hanging out. Just something to hold it rigid.

                  You can razzberry me. I bought a Sherline mill some years ago. Changing the door openings is sinfully easy with one of those tools.

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Sep 16, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

                  And, my biggest complaint about the OK's and their predecessors, the vestibule doors are from aluminum sheet metal with a small window and no other detail. Their size is too small too. Anybody know a way to "fix" them?


                  On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                   

                  On 9/16/2013 6:41 AM, Dave Audley wrote:
                  > This looks more like an "OK streamline" car from Herkimer. These are still
                  > available under the "OK Streamliner" brand.
                  > Dave Audley
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------
                  >
                  No, it's definitely a Tyco. You can tell it's molded, the OK
                  streamliners were all extruded aluminum so the detail was much flatter
                  and the baggage doors were just printed silver on celluloid.

                  Don

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21441 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: OK Streamliner Vestibule Doors (formerlyB&O Royel Blue coach?)
                  Mike,

                  The problem with cutting the openings is that you cut off the tabs that to which the car ends have to be screwed. Glueing the end in place is not a very satisfactory solution, in my experience. What do you do?


                  On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                   

                  The Walthers catalog used to carry detail parts from company that made great doors for modern passenger cars. I haven't gone through one of those for years and am not sure if the stuff is still carried.

                  Other options are to find a pair of doors you like on a discarded or junk passenger car, remove them, and cold cast them with an Alumite or SmoothOn starter/sampler kit to have as many as you need.

                  Some model rr cars have an end insert with the side doors attached. Duping one of those should work well.

                  You'll have to open the carside cut-outs for the more scale doors. That's a matter of marking the new opening, clamping some sort of straight-edge to the cut-line and casually jewelers saw and file to size. A good scribed line with something like an awl or hard tipped scriber would be helpful.

                  Jewelers saws are darned handy tools and modestly priced. Buy lots of blades to go with one, it takes a bit of experience to make your individual blades last long, small bundles of them are almost cheap through arts and craft sources, Amazon.com would be a great source.

                  You need a way to secure the car body to work on it. Clamped between boards in a bench vice. Clamped with boards to a bench top. Preferably in a reposition-able holder of some kind. Even clamped into a regular miter box with the car hanging out. Just something to hold it rigid.

                  You can razzberry me. I bought a Sherline mill some years ago. Changing the door openings is sinfully easy with one of those tools.

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Sep 16, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:

                  And, my biggest complaint about the OK's and their predecessors, the vestibule doors are from aluminum sheet metal with a small window and no other detail. Their size is too small too. Anybody know a way to "fix" them?


                  On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                   

                  On 9/16/2013 6:41 AM, Dave Audley wrote:
                  > This looks more like an "OK streamline" car from Herkimer. These are still
                  > available under the "OK Streamliner" brand.
                  > Dave Audley
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------
                  >
                  No, it's definitely a Tyco. You can tell it's molded, the OK
                  streamliners were all extruded aluminum so the detail was much flatter
                  and the baggage doors were just printed silver on celluloid.

                  Don




                  --
                  Regards,
                  Walter
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21442 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: Re: OK Streamliner Vestibule Doors (formerlyB&O Royel Blue coach?)
                  Does it look like you can trim off the outer wall from the tab? 

                  To regain strength you can add a span bar of sorts [brass or plastic strip] between the tabs and bolt that in place with the ends. 

                  You could instead make a 'U' or blank square extension of a spacer to attach [bolt-in] to the further in extruded tab ledge and bolt the ends to that inner extension. [shim as needed]

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Sep 16, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:



                  Mike,

                  The problem with cutting the openings is that you cut off the tabs that to which the car ends have to be screwed. Glueing the end in place is not a very satisfactory solution, in my experience. What do you do?
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21443 From: Dale Smith Date: 9/16/2013
                  Subject: Re: B&O Royel Blue coach ? [1 Attachment]
                  Dom,

                  If my timeline is correct and this car is plastic, I think the Gilbert shells came first as Gilbert offered them as early as 1957.   It is interesting that these cars were introduced at the numbering switch over and while they bore 3 digit numbers, they were never cataloged as such.  I checked hoseeker and couldn't find a 57 Tyco catalog, but in 55 Tyco was marketing the aluminum cars.  I would like to be able to confirm that the last aluminum cars were in 58 and the first Tyco plastic were in 60.   The best I came up with is from the 60 catalog on hoseeker and the illustrated cars seem to be Gilbert window arrangements but they have asterisks next to two roadnames, Santa Fe and New Haven, to indicate new items for that year.   Take a look at the page

                  http://www.hoseeker.org/tycoinformation/tycocatalog1960pg11.jpg

                  Notice that the B&O car has the stripe above the windows but the New Haven and Santa Fe examples have them through the window line like your car.   My take on this is that in 1960 Tyco was using both left over Gilbert shells and their own shorter shells with the older Gilbert shells having stripes above the window and the new Tyco shells having them at the window line.  That is consistent with your car having the shorter Tyco window arrangement.  Just my theory, but it makes sense that Gilbert wouldn't be the only manufacturer to make use of old stock first even if there were slight differences.  Only problems are the numbering of your car as "920" rather than "521," and the fact that the above the window stripe was shown in the 61 catalog also.   We all know though that catalogs may not accurately reflect the products actually produced and sold.

                  Dale Smith
                  On 9/15/2013 2:47 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                   
                  Can anyone in this group tell me anything about this car? I guess it is a Tyco car? What year it might be from? I've been searching for one like it and all I find are the cars with the blue band over the windows. Is this an earlier car than the higher blue band? I'd be grateful for any help from the Tyco guys, or anyone else for the matter.
                  Thanks, Dominic

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21444 From: maryinvt2 Date: 9/19/2013
                  Subject: If you are fed up with the new look, try this
                  I borrowed this from another group and it works great.
                  Richard in Vermont

                  For the old look:
                  Use Firefox and install this plug in.
                  http://ehibbert.org.uk/extension/install.html


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21445 From: Richard Date: 9/19/2013
                  Subject: Varney Yellowstone
                  I'm trying to do some research on this HO model for a friend. If there is anyone on this forum that has knowledge of how Gordon Varney designed this model, I would be very grateful for any information relative to the prototype that he used for his design.
                  Richard in Vermont
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21446 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/20/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone [5 Attachments]
                  Hello Richard,

                  I fear one of the few here that could shed some light on the design behind the yellowstone is in failing health. Here as a topic posed by him back in 2009. I tried to find more in my email memory banks, but I could not.
                   
                  Sean


                  "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

                  ----- Forwarded Message -----
                  From: jim heckard <jimheck@...>
                  To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:33 PM
                  Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Varney Yellowstone. [5 Attachments]

                   
                  Dan M , HH, All,
                   
                       These are pictures of my Varney Yellowstone. If you have access too the Greenberg Varney Guide written by D Spanagel you can read and see pictures. If you go to www.hoseeker. net and get into the Varney papers you can find out more.
                   
                      I will try, typing one finger, to supply some info. This was never a kit that I know of.. You bought a body and used 2 sets of the Varney 2-8-0 HEAVY Consolidation drivers to create the articulated Yellowstone version.  ( Some people created another engine using Pacific driver sets ) This Varney Yellowstone was made pre war from 2 Varney Consolidations using the V-1 6 volt motor or like mine using the post war Super Varney 2-8-0's and the 12 volt V-2 motor ( picture enclosed.) You could also use the Economy Consolidations with the non sprung drivers and an open frame motor.
                   
                     There were two bodies one a brass / bronze and an aluminum body. I happen to disagree with many Varney experts as to which came first.They seem to claim aluminum while I think the brass / bronze came first. My reasoning is the brass / bronze body is much heavier and the first pre war Yellowstone' s burned up the 6 volt V-12 motors and is why Varney made a lighter aluminum body. After the war didn't matter as the 12 volt motors stared to be used.
                   
                     I happen to think the post war Varney V-2 motor to be one of the finest, longest lasting motors ever sold and that includes today's  can motors. In fact you could call the Varney V-2 the first can motor since it is enclosed. It was designed for Varney by Bob Lindsay who later went on to market his own HO engines (mostly diesel) and designed another motor for his products that could be modified to power almost anything including steam.
                   
                     Hope this helps a little. Be glad to answer other questions. I hope I made no mistakes typing the information.
                   
                                                                                                                            Jim H


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21447 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 9/20/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
                  The first Yellowstone locos were Northern Pacific that ran through Yellowstone Gyser territory...
                  To see a picture of the loco the boiler was patterned after go to
                  http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/NP5004.JPG
                  That is a Northern Pacific Yellowstone of the 5000 series.  Also see
                  http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/nrthpac.htm  http://www.steamlocomotive.com/yellowstone/np5000.jpg   and  http://www.steamlocomotive.com/yellowstone/  

                  Don Staton in VA
                  =================================================================== 

                  On 9/20/2013 1:24 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:
                   
                  Hello Richard,

                  I fear one of the few here that could shed some light on the design behind the yellowstone is in failing health. Here as a topic posed by him back in 2009. I tried to find more in my email memory banks, but I could not.
                   
                  Sean


                  "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

                  ----- Forwarded Message -----
                  From: jim heckard <jimheck@...>
                  To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:33 PM
                  Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Varney Yellowstone. [5 Attachments]

                   
                  Dan M , HH, All,
                   
                       These are pictures of my Varney Yellowstone. If you have access too the Greenberg Varney Guide written by D Spanagel you can read and see pictures. If you go to www.hoseeker. net and get into the Varney papers you can find out more.
                   
                      I will try, typing one finger, to supply some info. This was never a kit that I know of.. You bought a body and used 2 sets of the Varney 2-8-0 HEAVY Consolidation drivers to create the articulated Yellowstone version.  ( Some people created another engine using Pacific driver sets ) This Varney Yellowstone was made pre war from 2 Varney Consolidations using the V-1 6 volt motor or like mine using the post war Super Varney 2-8-0's and the 12 volt V-2 motor ( picture enclosed.) You could also use the Economy Consolidations with the non sprung drivers and an open frame motor.
                   
                     There were two bodies one a brass / bronze and an aluminum body. I happen to disagree with many Varney experts as to which came first.They seem to claim aluminum while I think the brass / bronze came first. My reasoning is the brass / bronze body is much heavier and the first pre war Yellowstone' s burned up the 6 volt V-12 motors and is why Varney made a lighter aluminum body. After the war didn't matter as the 12 volt motors stared to be used.
                   
                     I happen to think the post war Varney V-2 motor to be one of the finest, longest lasting motors ever sold and that includes today's  can motors. In fact you could call the Varney V-2 the first can motor since it is enclosed. It was designed for Varney by Bob Lindsay who later went on to market his own HO engines (mostly diesel) and designed another motor for his products that could be modified to power almost anything including steam.
                   
                     Hope this helps a little. Be glad to answer other questions. I hope I made no mistakes typing the information.
                   
                                                                                                                            Jim H



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21448 From: Nelson Date: 9/20/2013
                  Subject: Re: If you are fed up with the new look, try this Firefox plugin
                  I installed it right after the change and it's just like old times. The odd thing is that the groups still displayed in the old format in Firefox only until the beginning of this week, long after the new look was visible to me in Chrome and Internet Exploder. That's the reason I stay with FF: customizability. Once the changeover was complete, this plugin did the trick.

                  Here's an active link:  http://ehibbert.org.uk/extension/install.html

                  Nelson
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21449 From: Robert Graves Date: 9/20/2013
                  Subject: For Sale: Vintage Roundhouse HO Kits from the 1950s
                  I have just received a collection that includes eleven unassembled all-metal Roundhouse HO freight car kits from the 1950s (see list below) in addition to eleven assembled freight cars, a Great Northern yard engine, and an orphaned SP tender. Since I am an S Scale operator/collector, I have no use for them and no knowledge of them. A member of your group referred me to you.

                  All eleven kits contain the full complement of paperwork in Mint P-10 condition, and are in the original boxes, most of which are in P-9/P-10 condition (a couple have tape on them). I was quite surprised to see that they have sprung trucks! Nice kits.

                  The B107 MKT boxcar has a note that says "not complete," but I have not yet checked to see what's missing; a quick look in the box reveals that most everything is there.

                  The only one I have checked is the B-104 PRR boxcar (picture attached); all parts are there and in mint condition.

                  Let me know if you're interested in any of these (or the assembled cars & engines) and I will check them out and send pictures.

                  I don't know how much to ask for them. I saw two kits on ebay with starting bids of $20 and Buy-It-Now of $25.99 or higher. Make me an offer I can't refuse!

                  Roundhouse B-104 PRR 40' AAR Cast Metal Boxcar Kit
                  Roundhouse S-103 D&RGW 40' Stock Car Kit
                  Roundhouse G-300T C&O 40' High Side Gondola Kit
                  Roundhouse B-701 Santa Fe 40' Wood Sheath Boxcar Kit
                  Roundhouse G-102T N&W 40' Low Side Gondola Kit
                  Roundhouse B-403 N&W 40' Roundtop Boxcar Kit
                  Roundhouse B-107 MKT Katy 40' Boxcar Kit
                  Roundhouse S-104 MKT Katy 40' Stock Car Kit
                  Roundhouse S-101 Union Pacific 40' Stock Car Kit
                  Roundhouse B-304 Southern Pacific 40' Truss Side Boxcar Kit
                  Roundhouse G-201 Union Pacific 40' High Side Gondola Kit
                   
                  Bob Graves
                  TheGilbertGallery.org
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21450 From: gbwdude Date: 9/21/2013
                  Subject: Bowser NYC Pacific boiler woes
                  Gents,

                  Back home I have a early (first generation) Bowser K11 Pacific that needs a new boiler due to zamac poisoning. From the research I've done it seems that a newer production boiler should work. Has anyone done this? Are there any other boilers that will fit with minor modification? Any help would be great.

                  Tyler
                  Manager, Whiskey River Railway
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21451 From: Richard L. Carbo Date: 9/21/2013
                  Subject: Varney and Gilbert HO For Sale

                  My Friends, I am now concentrating on collecting American Flyer Pre-war “O” and Standard trains. I am therefore going to sell my Varney and Gilbert HO collections. If any of you have interest, please send me an e-mail directly at flyerguy3@... and I will provide you my for sale lists. FYI, I am also selling my American Flyer “S” gauge collection if you have interest in that. Richard Carbo

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21452 From: luvprr2003 Date: 9/21/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser NYC Pacific boiler woes
                  Tyler,
                  Newer boiler will work fine. Bowser has 'em in stock. Done every Bowser  cast loco and various versions--all in my collection.
                  Art W
                   
                  In a message dated 9/21/2013 10:20:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gbwdude@... writes:


                  Gents,

                  Back home I have a early (first generation) Bowser K11 Pacific that needs a new boiler due to zamac poisoning. From the research I've done it seems that a newer production boiler should work. Has anyone done this? Are there any other boilers that will fit with minor modification? Any help would be great.

                  Tyler
                  Manager, Whiskey River Railway
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21453 From: erieberk Date: 9/21/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
                  Hello Richard,

                  As Sean just posted, Jim Heckard is one of the most knowledgeable members on this group, concerning Varney engines. We continue to pray for his recovery and for new developments related to his condition. Jim has sent Larry Stevenson a good deal of Varney literature to be included on Larry's HoSeekers.net site. I thought perhaps that the Varney Yellowstone directions and instructions may be seen up there, but in taking a look just now, I don't see it as being included. There is a good deal of Varney info up there, thanks to Jim, explaining how to assemble Varney models -- which would cover all the basics for the Yellowstone -- and is well worth taking a look at.

                  As I'm one of the Varney fans and modelers who helped Dave Spanagel in supplying information for his Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains book, and one of those who proofread his manuscript before publishing, perhaps I might be able to help you with the Yellowstone. I have 6 of the brass/bronze boiler post-War Yellowstones and one aluminum boiler pre-War kit (including original instructions). I knew both Dick Mercer (Gordon Varney's Southeastern US representative) and Hal Fletcher (Gordon Varney's Northeastern US representative); I used to drive over to Hal's apartment in Queens, NY and we'd spend the afternoon sipping scotch on the rocks and talking Varney trains. He had an extensive collection of factory-built Varney engines which he used as display models when visiting the various supply houses and taking orders, which I was fortunate to buy from him back in the mid '70's.

                  As MR magazine published a post-War version of Varney Yellowstone plans in two successive issues in 1949, I'd advise you try to obtain them if you or your friend has a need for them. The prototype that Varney used for his Yellowstone model was the Northern Pacific RR's Class Z-5 2-8-8-4 -- specifically, the #5000 (Serial #67578) built by ALCo in 1928. It was the largest engine built to date at that time. NP went on and ordered 11 more Yellowstones (#5001 -- #5011) to be built by Baldwin in 1930, but it was the sole ALCo-built Yellowstone which Varney used as his prototype for his model. Three other railroads ordered this wheel configuration; the B&O, the DM&IR and the SP. The Northern Pacific used them primarily on their Yellowstone Division through eastern Montana where it's in close proximity to the Yellowstone River at times -- which also flows through Yellowstone National Park just to the south -- hence, the engine's name. They were all converted to roller bearings in 1941.

                  While the B&O had engines of the same wheel arrangement, theirs were called solely by their Class name -- EM-1 -- and proudly so for that railroad. The SP's 2-8-8-4's were their Class A-9 engines, which were called Cab-Forwards, as they needed to run "in-reverse" through their mountain tunnels so the crews would not get asphyxiated. The DM&IR called their's Yellowstones, but only naming them for the Class they were originally named for by the NP. Their Class numeration was M-3's and M-4's, both virtually identical.

                  ALCo later built a good number of similar articulated for the NP in the 1930's, but these were all 2-6-6-4's, which is where Varney got his idea to recommend to the hobbyist, their building engines of this wheel arrangement using his Yellowstone boiler. After all, there were no post-War Varney Yellowstone kits produced, so the modeler had to first assemble (gather) the parts to make a kit of his own, using either 6-coupled or 8-coupled drivers. Most opted to copy the original pre-War 2-8-8-4 configuration model for their home-gathered kit after the War. Let me know if you have any specific questions on the Yellowstone which you need answering. I'll see if I can help you with them.

                  Regards,

                  Ray F. Wetzel



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm trying to do some research on this HO model for a friend. If there is anyone on this forum that has knowledge of how Gordon Varney designed this model, I would be very grateful for any information relative to the prototype that he used for his design.
                  > Richard in Vermont
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21454 From: John Hagen Date: 9/21/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone

                  Ray,

                   

                  The Model Railroader article ran from May through July 1949. Nice article but I didn’t find a photo of the completed locomotive.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk
                  Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:21 PM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Yellowstone

                   

                   

                  Hello Richard,

                  As Sean just posted, Jim Heckard is one of the most knowledgeable members on this group, concerning Varney engines. We continue to pray for his recovery and for new developments related to his condition. Jim has sent Larry Stevenson a good deal of Varney literature to be included on Larry's HoSeekers.net site. I thought perhaps that the Varney Yellowstone directions and instructions may be seen up there, but in taking a look just now, I don't see it as being included. There is a good deal of Varney info up there, thanks to Jim, explaining how to assemble Varney models -- which would cover all the basics for the Yellowstone -- and is well worth taking a look at.

                  As I'm one of the Varney fans and modelers who helped Dave Spanagel in supplying information for his Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains book, and one of those who proofread his manuscript before publishing, perhaps I might be able to help you with the Yellowstone. I have 6 of the brass/bronze boiler post-War Yellowstones and one aluminum boiler pre-War kit (including original instructions). I knew both Dick Mercer (Gordon Varney's Southeastern US representative) and Hal Fletcher (Gordon Varney's Northeastern US representative); I used to drive over to Hal's apartment in Queens, NY and we'd spend the afternoon sipping scotch on the rocks and talking Varney trains. He had an extensive collection of factory-built Varney engines which he used as display models when visiting the various supply houses and taking orders, which I was fortunate to buy from him back in the mid '70's.

                  As MR magazine published a post-War version of Varney Yellowstone plans in two successive issues in 1949, I'd advise you try to obtain them if you or your friend has a need for them. The prototype that Varney used for his Yellowstone model was the Northern Pacific RR's Class Z-5 2-8-8-4 -- specifically, the #5000 (Serial #67578) built by ALCo in 1928. It was the largest engine built to date at that time. NP went on and ordered 11 more Yellowstones (#5001 -- #5011) to be built by Baldwin in 1930, but it was the sole ALCo-built Yellowstone which Varney used as his prototype for his model. Three other railroads ordered this wheel configuration; the B&O, the DM&IR and the SP. The Northern Pacific used them primarily on their Yellowstone Division through eastern Montana where it's in close proximity to the Yellowstone River at times -- which also flows through Yellowstone National Park just to the south -- hence, the engine's name. They were all converted to roller bearings in 1941.

                  While the B&O had engines of the same wheel arrangement, theirs were called solely by their Class name -- EM-1 -- and proudly so for that railroad. The SP's 2-8-8-4's were their Class A-9 engines, which were called Cab-Forwards, as they needed to run "in-reverse" through their mountain tunnels so the crews would not get asphyxiated. The DM&IR called their's Yellowstones, but only naming them for the Class they were originally named for by the NP. Their Class numeration was M-3's and M-4's, both virtually identical.

                  ALCo later built a good number of similar articulated for the NP in the 1930's, but these were all 2-6-6-4's, which is where Varney got his idea to recommend to the hobbyist, their building engines of this wheel arrangement using his Yellowstone boiler. After all, there were no post-War Varney Yellowstone kits produced, so the modeler had to first assemble (gather) the parts to make a kit of his own, using either 6-coupled or 8-coupled drivers. Most opted to copy the original pre-War 2-8-8-4 configuration model for their home-gathered kit after the War. Let me know if you have any specific questions on the Yellowstone which you need answering. I'll see if I can help you with them.

                  Regards,

                  Ray F. Wetzel

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm trying to do some research on this HO model for a friend. If there is anyone on this forum that has knowledge of how Gordon Varney designed this model, I would be very grateful for any information relative to the prototype that he used for his design.
                  > Richard in Vermont
                  >

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21455 From: erieberk Date: 9/21/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
                  Hi John,

                  Thanks for the update. I didn't remember the number of months the article
                  spanned, but I knew the year it was published. I have it both as pages cut
                  out of MR magazines and as articles included in intact MR's in my magazine
                  collection. For the Varney modeler who want to build one of these
                  articulateds, it's extremely informative. I didn't remember whether or not it
                  contained a photo, but the object of the article is essentially about the
                  construction of the model -- which it excels with.

                  Photos of the model can be found in pre-War Varney catalogs from 1939 to
                  1941 (the 1938 catalog does not include this engine yet) and in post-War
                  catalogs up to 1957 -- even though it's not available post-War as a kit; the cast
                  bronze boiler is, as illustrated. The large format post-War catalogs are
                  especially good at showing a photo of the Yellowstone, especially those before
                  1949, although the '49 catalogs still show a good photo, albeit somewhat
                  smaller than the preceeding issues. The small format catalogs from 1950
                  through 1957 show a good photo of this engine, but as can be expected, not a real
                  large one due to the smaller size of these issues.

                  Ray Wetzel. </HTML>
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21456 From: prandn Date: 9/22/2013
                  Subject: FS: Precision Scale Co. Thomas Flyer Rail Car Kit HO-10900 Powered

                  Precision Scale Co. Thomas Flyer Rail Car Kit

                  HO-10900 Powered NIB

                  Asking $80 OBO + shipping from 97006

                  Photo's on request.

                  Payment by PayPal, USPS MO ( Next day shipping ) or

                  Bank check ( 5 business days to clear )

                   

                  Loren Martell

                  Beaverton, OR 97006

                  503-810-9018

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21457 From: maryinvt2 Date: 9/22/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone

                  Ray, 

                  That is just the kind of info I'm looking for and I will pass it on to my friend. Thank you for such an in depth reply.

                  Richard in Vermont 



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Hello Richard,

                  As Sean just posted, Jim Heckard is one of the most knowledgeable members on this group, concerning Varney engines. We continue to pray for his recovery and for new developments related to his condition. Jim has sent Larry Stevenson a good deal of Varney literature to be included on Larry's HoSeekers.net site. I thought perhaps that the Varney Yellowstone directions and instructions may be seen up there, but in taking a look just now, I don't see it as being included. There is a good deal of Varney info up there, thanks to Jim, explaining how to assemble Varney models -- which would cover all the basics for the Yellowstone -- and is well worth taking a look at.

                  As I'm one of the Varney fans and modelers who helped Dave Spanagel in supplying information for his Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains book, and one of those who proofread his manuscript before publishing, perhaps I might be able to help you with the Yellowstone. I have 6 of the brass/bronze boiler post-War Yellowstones and one aluminum boiler pre-War kit (including original instructions). I knew both Dick Mercer (Gordon Varney's Southeastern US representative) and Hal Fletcher (Gordon Varney's Northeastern US representative); I used to drive over to Hal's apartment in Queens, NY and we'd spend the afternoon sipping scotch on the rocks and talking Varney trains. He had an extensive collection of factory-built Varney engines which he used as display models when visiting the various supply houses and taking orders, which I was fortunate to buy from him back in the mid '70's.

                  As MR magazine published a post-War version of Varney Yellowstone plans in two successive issues in 1949, I'd advise you try to obtain them if you or your friend has a need for them. The prototype that Varney used for his Yellowstone model was the Northern Pacific RR's Class Z-5 2-8-8-4 -- specifically, the #5000 (Serial #67578) built by ALCo in 1928. It was the largest engine built to date at that time. NP went on and ordered 11 more Yellowstones (#5001 -- #5011) to be built by Baldwin in 1930, but it was the sole ALCo-built Yellowstone which Varney used as his prototype for his model. Three other railroads ordered this wheel configuration; the B&O, the DM&IR and the SP. The Northern Pacific used them primarily on their Yellowstone Division through eastern Montana where it's in close proximity to the Yellowstone River at times -- which also flows through Yellowstone National Park just to the south -- hence, the engine's name. They were all converted to roller bearings in 1941.

                  While the B&O had engines of the same wheel arrangement, theirs were called solely by their Class name -- EM-1 -- and proudly so for that railroad. The SP's 2-8-8-4's were their Class A-9 engines, which were called Cab-Forwards, as they needed to run "in-reverse" through their mountain tunnels so the crews would not get asphyxiated. The DM&IR called their's Yellowstones, but only naming them for the Class they were originally named for by the NP. Their Class numeration was M-3's and M-4's, both virtually identical.

                  ALCo later built a good number of similar articulated for the NP in the 1930's, but these were all 2-6-6-4's, which is where Varney got his idea to recommend to the hobbyist, their building engines of this wheel arrangement using his Yellowstone boiler. After all, there were no post-War Varney Yellowstone kits produced, so the modeler had to first assemble (gather) the parts to make a kit of his own, using either 6-coupled or 8-coupled drivers. Most opted to copy the original pre-War 2-8-8-4 configuration model for their home-gathered kit after the War. Let me know if you have any specific questions on the Yellowstone which you need answering. I'll see if I can help you with them.

                  Regards,

                  Ray F. Wetzel



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm trying to do some research on this HO model for a friend. If there is anyone on this forum that has knowledge of how Gordon Varney designed this model, I would be very grateful for any information relative to the prototype that he used for his design.
                  > Richard in Vermont
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21458 From: rcjge Date: 9/22/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser NYC Pacific boiler woes

                  Tyler I have an early Bowser/PL Pacific/Mike boiler...if you're interested...


                  -Gareth 



                  --- In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <luvprr@...> wrote:

                  Tyler,
                  Newer boiler will work fine. Bowser has 'em in stock. Done every Bowser  cast loco and various versions--all in my collection.
                  Art W
                   
                  In a message dated 9/21/2013 10:20:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gbwdude@... writes:


                  Gents,

                  Back home I have a early (first generation) Bowser K11 Pacific that needs a new boiler due to zamac poisoning. From the research I've done it seems that a newer production boiler should work. Has anyone done this? Are there any other boilers that will fit with minor modification? Any help would be great.

                  Tyler
                  Manager, Whiskey River Railway
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21459 From: prandn Date: 9/22/2013
                  Subject: FS: Misc TM Building Kits

                  FS:  Misc Building Kits

                   

                  Train Miniature HO Structure Kits:  7051 Structures - Scenery, Line Side Shanty

                  Parts still sealed in plastic bags

                  Asking $12.50 + postage.

                   

                  Train Miniature HO Structure Kits:  7054 Structures - Scenery, General Store or Bank

                  Parts still sealed in plastic bags

                  Asking $12.50 + postage.

                   

                  Train Miniature HO Structure Kits:  7060 Elevated Coal Trestle

                  Parts still sealed in plastic bags

                  Asking $12.50 + postage.

                   

                  Take all 3 TM kits for $30 + postage.

                   

                  Shipping is from 97006.

                   

                  Pictures available on request.  Please contact me off list at saltnpepper69@....
                  Payment by PayPal or USPS Money Order ( Next business day shipping )

                  or Bank Check ( 5 business day hold before shipping.)
                   

                  Loren Martell
                  Beaverton, OR 97006
                  503-810-9018

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21460 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/23/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
                  Here are some old photos Jim sent to me of the constructions plans. I have a set at home too I believe.
                   
                  Sean


                  "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


                  From: "rh@..." <rh@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:30 AM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: Varney Yellowstone

                   
                  Ray, 
                  That is just the kind of info I'm looking for and I will pass it on to my friend. Thank you for such an in depth reply.
                  Richard in Vermont 


                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Hello Richard,

                  As Sean just posted, Jim Heckard is one of the most knowledgeable members on this group, concerning Varney engines. We continue to pray for his recovery and for new developments related to his condition. Jim has sent Larry Stevenson a good deal of Varney literature to be included on Larry's HoSeekers.net site. I thought perhaps that the Varney Yellowstone directions and instructions may be seen up there, but in taking a look just now, I don't see it as being included. There is a good deal of Varney info up there, thanks to Jim, explaining how to assemble Varney models -- which would cover all the basics for the Yellowstone -- and is well worth taking a look at.

                  As I'm one of the Varney fans and modelers who helped Dave Spanagel in supplying information for his Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains book, and one of those who proofread his manuscript before publishing, perhaps I might be able to help you with the Yellowstone. I have 6 of the brass/bronze boiler post-War Yellowstones and one aluminum boiler pre-War kit (including original instructions). I knew both Dick Mercer (Gordon Varney's Southeastern US representative) and Hal Fletcher (Gordon Varney's Northeastern US representative); I used to drive over to Hal's apartment in Queens, NY and we'd spend the afternoon sipping scotch on the rocks and talking Varney trains. He had an extensive collection of factory-built Varney engines which he used as display models when visiting the various supply houses and taking orders, which I was fortunate to buy from him back in the mid '70's.

                  As MR magazine published a post-War version of Varney Yellowstone plans in two successive issues in 1949, I'd advise you try to obtain them if you or your friend has a need for them. The prototype that Varney used for his Yellowstone model was the Northern Pacific RR's Class Z-5 2-8-8-4 -- specifically, the #5000 (Serial #67578) built by ALCo in 1928. It was the largest engine built to date at that time. NP went on and ordered 11 more Yellowstones (#5001 -- #5011) to be built by Baldwin in 1930, but it was the sole ALCo-built Yellowstone which Varney used as his prototype for his model. Three other railroads ordered this wheel configuration; the B&O, the DM&IR and the SP. The Northern Pacific used them primarily on their Yellowstone Division through eastern Montana where it's in close proximity to the Yellowstone River at times -- which also flows through Yellowstone National Park just to the south -- hence, the engine's name. They were all converted to roller bearings in 1941.

                  While the B&O had engines of the same wheel arrangement, theirs were called solely by their Class name -- EM-1 -- and proudly so for that railroad. The SP's 2-8-8-4's were their Class A-9 engines, which were called Cab-Forwards, as they needed to run "in-reverse" through their mountain tunnels so the crews would not get asphyxiated. The DM&IR called their's Yellowstones, but only naming them for the Class they were originally named for by the NP. Their Class numeration was M-3's and M-4's, both virtually identical.

                  ALCo later built a good number of similar articulated for the NP in the 1930's, but these were all 2-6-6-4's, which is where Varney got his idea to recommend to the hobbyist, their building engines of this wheel arrangement using his Yellowstone boiler. After all, there were no post-War Varney Yellowstone kits produced, so the modeler had to first assemble (gather) the parts to make a kit of his own, using either 6-coupled or 8-coupled drivers. Most opted to copy the original pre-War 2-8-8-4 configuration model for their home-gathered kit after the War. Let me know if you have any specific questions on the Yellowstone which you need answering. I'll see if I can help you with them.

                  Regards,

                  Ray F. Wetzel



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm trying to do some research on this HO model for a friend. If there is anyone on this forum that has knowledge of how Gordon Varney designed this model, I would be very grateful for any information relative to the prototype that he used for his design.
                  > Richard in Vermont
                  >


                    @@attachment@@
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21461 From: rcjge Date: 9/24/2013
                  Subject: Pics added to 4 sale Gareth Folder
                  Hey Guys:


                  Pics added to 4 sale Gareth Folder...

                  Any q's please email me....

                  Thanks,
                  Gareth
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21462 From: rcjge Date: 9/25/2013
                  Subject: Re: Pics added to 4 sale Gareth Folder

                  More pics added guys.... 



                  ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <jgpedwards@...> wrote:

                  Hey Guys:

                  Pics added to 4 sale Gareth Folder...

                  Any q's please email me....

                  Thanks,
                  Gareth
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21463 From: Richard Date: 9/27/2013
                  Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone
                  Sean,
                  I sent copies of these four photos to my friend and he was delighted with them. Exactly what he needs. If you or anyone else has more of this kind of info on the Yellowstone I would be pleased to get a hold of it for him. Thank you again.
                  Richard in Vermont

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here are some old photos Jim sent to me of the constructions plans. I have a set at home too I believe.
                  >  
                  > Sean
                  >
                  >
                  > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: "rh@..." <rh@...>
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:30 AM
                  > Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: Varney Yellowstone
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > Ray, 
                  > That is just the kind of info I'm looking for and I will pass it on to my friend. Thank you for such an in depth reply.
                  > Richard in Vermont 
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello Richard,
                  >
                  > As Sean just posted, Jim Heckard is one of the most knowledgeable members on this group, concerning Varney engines. We continue to pray for his recovery and for new developments related to his condition. Jim has sent Larry Stevenson a good deal of Varney literature to be included on Larry's HoSeekers.net site. I thought perhaps that the Varney Yellowstone directions and instructions may be seen up there, but in taking a look just now, I don't see it as being included. There is a good deal of Varney info up there, thanks to Jim, explaining how to assemble Varney models -- which would cover all the basics for the Yellowstone -- and is well worth taking a look at.
                  >
                  > As I'm one of the Varney fans and modelers who helped Dave Spanagel in supplying information for his Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains book, and one of those who proofread his manuscript before publishing, perhaps I might be able to help you with the Yellowstone. I have 6 of the brass/bronze boiler post-War Yellowstones and one aluminum boiler pre-War kit (including original instructions). I knew both Dick Mercer (Gordon Varney's Southeastern US representative) and Hal Fletcher (Gordon Varney's Northeastern US representative); I used to drive over to Hal's apartment in Queens, NY and we'd spend the afternoon sipping scotch on the rocks and talking Varney trains. He had an extensive collection of factory-built Varney engines which he used as display models when visiting the various supply houses and taking orders, which I was fortunate to buy from him back in the mid '70's.
                  >
                  > As MR magazine published a post-War version of Varney Yellowstone plans in two successive issues in 1949, I'd advise you try to obtain them if you or your friend has a need for them. The prototype that Varney used for his Yellowstone model was the Northern Pacific RR's Class Z-5 2-8-8-4 -- specifically, the #5000 (Serial #67578) built by ALCo in 1928. It was the largest engine built to date at that time. NP went on and ordered 11 more Yellowstones (#5001 -- #5011) to be built by Baldwin in 1930, but it was the sole ALCo-built Yellowstone which Varney used as his prototype for his model. Three other railroads ordered this wheel configuration; the B&O, the DM&IR and the SP. The Northern Pacific used them primarily on their Yellowstone Division through eastern Montana where it's in close proximity to the Yellowstone River at times -- which also flows through Yellowstone National Park just to the south -- hence, the engine's name. They were all
                  > converted to roller bearings in 1941.
                  >
                  > While the B&O had engines of the same wheel arrangement, theirs were called solely by their Class name -- EM-1 -- and proudly so for that railroad. The SP's 2-8-8-4's were their Class A-9 engines, which were called Cab-Forwards, as they needed to run "in-reverse" through their mountain tunnels so the crews would not get asphyxiated. The DM&IR called their's Yellowstones, but only naming them for the Class they were originally named for by the NP. Their Class numeration was M-3's and M-4's, both virtually identical.
                  >
                  > ALCo later built a good number of similar articulated for the NP in the 1930's, but these were all 2-6-6-4's, which is where Varney got his idea to recommend to the hobbyist, their building engines of this wheel arrangement using his Yellowstone boiler. After all, there were no post-War Varney Yellowstone kits produced, so the modeler had to first assemble (gather) the parts to make a kit of his own, using either 6-coupled or 8-coupled drivers. Most opted to copy the original pre-War 2-8-8-4 configuration model for their home-gathered kit after the War. Let me know if you have any specific questions on the Yellowstone which you need answering. I'll see if I can help you with them.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Ray F. Wetzel
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> I'm trying to do some research on this HO model for a friend. If there is anyone on this forum that has knowledge of how Gordon Varney designed this model, I would be very grateful for any information relative to the prototype that he used for his design.
                  > >> Richard in Vermont
                  > >>
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21464 From: prandn Date: 9/28/2013
                  Subject: Re: FS: Precision Scale Co. Thomas Flyer Rail Car Kit HO-10900 Powe

                  This item has sold.

                  Thank you!



                  ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Precision Scale Co. Thomas Flyer Rail Car Kit

                  HO-10900 Powered NIB

                  Asking $80 OBO + shipping from 97006

                  Photo's on request.

                  Payment by PayPal, USPS MO ( Next day shipping ) or

                  Bank check ( 5 business days to clear )

                   

                  Loren Martell

                  Beaverton, OR 97006

                  503-810-9018

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21465 From: rxensen Date: 9/28/2013
                  Subject: Main Line Modeler for sale

                  Complete set of Main Line Modelers. Contact me if you are interested in negotiating a price. If that can not be done I will fill out my set and offer the rest by issue.

                  Ron Christensen

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21466 From: Sean Naylor Date: 9/30/2013
                  Subject: So when did this site become a Flea Market?
                  Just wondering. 

                  I'm of the opinion that the basis of this site was supposed to be shop talk about vintage HO trains, modeling and repairing vintage HO and such... 

                  Seems to me too many of the topics have been postings of items for sale.  I sell a lot more than most, but I don't do it here
                   
                  Sean


                  "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21467 From: Don Dellmann Date: 9/30/2013
                  Subject: Re: So when did this site become a Flea Market?
                  On 9/30/2013 8:36 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:
                  Just wondering. 

                  I'm of the opinion that the basis of this site was supposed to be shop talk about vintage HO trains, modeling and repairing vintage HO and such... 

                  Seems to me too many of the topics have been postings of items for sale.  I sell a lot more than most, but I don't do it here
                   
                  Sean


                  "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
                  I've always said for sale postings are OK as long as the itens are reasonably within the scope of the group, within limits.

                  What I DON'T want are long lists, posting too frequently (not more than once every week or two) or people who are obviously dealers or links to eBay auctions unless it's someone other than the sellerv pointing something of interest to the group.

                  If it gets too objectionable I may cut that out.


                  Don
                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21468 From: redvdub1 Date: 9/30/2013
                  Subject: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  Club members have several old Bachman diesels with the pancake motor.  The drive trains are really noisy ...but they run fairly well.  Has anyone tried to quiet these old diesels down.  The gear trains are completely different than the Athearn gear boxes.  I cannot see any way to adjust these gears ...Perhaps the abrasive toothpaste trick will help????  Any help appreciated. 
                  George T. Galyon
                  Olde Newburgh Model RR Club
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21469 From: Nelson Date: 10/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  These would actually be second gen Bachmann diesels. The first generation had 8 wheel drive and were noisy, but they could be made into decent runners. This style of F9 drive was also used to make an FT for AHM.

                  The pancake drives came along as a much cheaper alternative, once Tyco opened that Pandora's box. I say give the gear polishing a shot -- it can't hurt -- but the problem is in the basic design of putting a pinion on the motor shaft. It's noisy, and the plastic motor housing amplifies it. (Earlier versions of the pancake drive found in steamers like the GS4 and Reading 2-8-0 are housed in the diecast split frame and are somewhat quieter.)

                  I actually found the Bachmanns to be reliable (especially compared to Tyco's pancake drive), but the noise could make you wish otherwise. It was like being stuck in a field of caffeinated katydids.

                  Nelson
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21470 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  You could go with the noise of the units and add a simple on-board programable sound unit sthat has the diesel backfiring sounds of the submarine diesel from 'The Wackiest Ship in the Army'....

                  Capture some sounds from here...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yclPGOGDGFU

                  engine failing...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyKCOv49fY

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I9k9rHB4EA

                  old diesel start-up

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw72YcUOCR0

                  1936 FM running

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_0xifuTqVA

                  I use the service KeepVid to capture the video, QuickTime player to export the audio only, then Audacity to edit the audio.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Oct 1, 2013, at 12:20 PM, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:

                  > These would actually be second gen Bachmann diesels. The first generation had 8 wheel drive and were noisy, but they could be made into decent runners. This style of F9 drive was also used to make an FT for AHM.
                  >
                  > The pancake drives came along as a much cheaper alternative, once Tyco opened that Pandora's box. I say give the gear polishing a shot -- it can't hurt -- but the problem is in the basic design of putting a pinion on the motor shaft. It's noisy, and the plastic motor housing amplifies it. (Earlier versions of the pancake drive found in steamers like the GS4 and Reading 2-8-0 are housed in the diecast split frame and are somewhat quieter.)
                  >
                  > I actually found the Bachmanns to be reliable (especially compared to Tyco's pancake drive), but the noise could make you wish otherwise. It was like being stuck in a field of caffeinated katydids.
                  >
                  > Nelson
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21471 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 10/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  there was no submarine in wackiest ship in the army just a sail boat  maybe “operation  petticoat”
                   
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 1:08 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                   
                   

                  You could go with the noise of the units and add a simple on-board programable sound unit sthat has the diesel backfiring sounds of the submarine diesel from 'The Wackiest Ship in the Army'....

                  Capture some sounds from here...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yclPGOGDGFU

                  engine failing...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyKCOv49fY

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I9k9rHB4EA

                  old diesel start-up

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw72YcUOCR0

                  1936 FM running

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_0xifuTqVA

                  I use the service KeepVid to capture the video, QuickTime player to export the audio only, then Audacity to edit the audio.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA

                  On Oct 1, 2013, at 12:20 PM, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:

                  > These would actually be
                  second gen Bachmann diesels. The first generation had 8 wheel drive and were noisy, but they could be made into decent runners. This style of F9 drive was also used to make an FT for AHM.
                  >
                  > The pancake drives came along
                  as a much cheaper alternative, once Tyco opened that Pandora's box. I say give the gear polishing a shot -- it can't hurt -- but the problem is in the basic design of putting a pinion on the motor shaft. It's noisy, and the plastic motor housing amplifies it. (Earlier versions of the pancake drive found in steamers like the GS4 and Reading 2-8-0 are housed in the diecast split frame and are somewhat quieter.)
                  >
                  > I actually found the Bachmanns to be
                  reliable (especially compared to Tyco's pancake drive), but the noise could make you wish otherwise. It was like being stuck in a field of caffeinated katydids.
                  >
                  > Nelson

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21472 From: John Hagen Date: 10/1/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise

                  Yeah, “Operation Petticoat” with the pink submarine was the one that made all the gurgling noises and backfired. That would be a good sound track fer them toasters.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ratcatzdogz@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:54 PM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise

                   

                   

                  there was no submarine in wackiest ship in the army just a sail boat  maybe “operation  petticoat”

                   

                  Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 1:08 PM

                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise

                   

                   

                  You could go with the noise of the units and add a simple on-board programable sound unit sthat has the diesel backfiring sounds of the submarine diesel from 'The Wackiest Ship in the Army'....

                  Capture some sounds from here...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yclPGOGDGFU

                  engine failing...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyKCOv49fY

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I9k9rHB4EA

                  old diesel start-up

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw72YcUOCR0

                  1936 FM running

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_0xifuTqVA

                  I use the service KeepVid to capture the video, QuickTime player to export the audio only, then Audacity to edit the audio.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA

                  On Oct 1, 2013, at 12:20 PM, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:

                  > These would actually be second gen Bachmann diesels. The first generation had 8 wheel drive and were noisy, but they could be made into decent runners. This style of F9 drive was also used to make an FT for AHM.
                  >
                  > The pancake drives came along as a much cheaper alternative, once Tyco opened that Pandora's box. I say give the gear polishing a shot -- it can't hurt -- but the problem is in the basic design of putting a pinion on the motor shaft. It's noisy, and the plastic motor housing amplifies it. (Earlier versions of the pancake drive found in steamers like the GS4 and Reading 2-8-0 are housed in the diecast split frame and are somewhat quieter.)
                  >
                  > I actually found the Bachmanns to be reliable (especially compared to Tyco's pancake drive), but the noise could make you wish otherwise. It was like being stuck in a field of caffeinated katydids.
                  >
                  > Nelson

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21473 From: Jim Waterman Date: 10/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  That is a great idea! Would probably get a laugh or two at the club running session.
                   
                  Jim Waterman
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21474 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  I speed sampled the movie on youtube last night and I'm looking again for some moments when the engine burps happen without music playing over them. The music overplays on the bits near the end of the movie. There are a couple of seconds where the music pauses. I'm hoping that the earliest appearance is music free.

                  I'm now downloading the movie in german since I can't find it in english on youtube. Its good enough to capture the sounds from.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Oct 2, 2013, at 6:25 AM, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > That is a great idea! Would probably get a laugh or two at the club running session.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21475 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  This is partly for my notes...

                  I found the needed sounds at 28 minutes and 1:23 in the movie without the music playing over them.

                  So if anyone wants to find them....... [ great engine belching and snorting at 23-minutes !! Wicked start-up sounds before that.]

                  So... to repeat, outrageous engine noises from Operation Petticoat and its submarine diesel engine.

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Oct 2, 2013, at 12:35 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

                  > I speed sampled the movie on youtube last night and I'm looking again for some moments when the engine burps happen without music playing over them.
                  .......
                  >
                  > On Oct 2, 2013, at 6:25 AM, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> That is a great idea! Would probably get a laugh or two at the club running session.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21476 From: Nelson Date: 10/2/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  No need for a fancy sound system. Just double-head it with an old Model Power E8, and you won't even hear that pancake motor.

                  Nelson



                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Yeah, “Operation Petticoat” with the pink submarine was the one that made all the gurgling noises and backfired. That would be a good sound track fer them toasters.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ratcatzdogz@...
                  > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:54 PM
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bachman 1st generation diesel power train noise
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21477 From: rick.flaherty Date: 10/3/2013
                  Subject: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21478 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/3/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Hi,
                  I'm not sure what they look like but I have or can get several small
                  lamps that use a spring clip as one side of the contact.

                  Jake Bechtel
                  Gadsden, AL

                  On 10/3/13, flick23@... <flick23@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi again,
                  >
                  > Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature
                  > (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held
                  > in with a metallic strip?
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance.
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21479 From: ratcatzdogz Date: 10/3/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  alass no they were grin of wheat lights and they were replaced by LEDs
                   
                  Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 4:38 PM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert passenger car lamps
                   
                   

                  Hi,
                  I'm not sure what they look like but I have or can get several small
                  lamps that use a spring clip as one side of the contact.

                  Jake Bechtel
                  Gadsden, AL

                  On 10/3/13, flick23@... <flick23@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Hi
                  again,
                  >
                  > Does anybody out there know where one can still get those
                  micro miniature
                  > (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of
                  the cars and are held
                  > in with a metallic strip?
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  in advance.
                  >
                  >

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21480 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/3/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Hello again,

                  Grain of wheat bulbs are available from Model Power, Walthers and
                  others like Micro Mark and M B Klein (modeltrainstuff.com). The ones
                  available do not have metal bases but instead have twin wire leads to
                  the bulb. Generally the cost is $1 or less per bulb. Grain of rice
                  bulbs are also available (smaller).

                  Jake Bechtel
                  Gadsden, AL

                  On 10/3/13, ratcatzdogz@... <ratcatzdogz@...> wrote:
                  > alass no they were grin of wheat lights and they were replaced by LEDs
                  >
                  > From: Jacob Bechtel
                  > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 4:38 PM
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  > I'm not sure what they look like but I have or can get several small
                  > lamps that use a spring clip as one side of the contact.
                  >
                  > Jake Bechtel
                  > Gadsden, AL
                  >
                  > On 10/3/13, flick23@... <flick23@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Hi again,
                  >>
                  >> Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature
                  >> (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are
                  >> held
                  >> in with a metallic strip?
                  >>
                  >> Thanks in advance.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21481 From: rick.flaherty Date: 10/3/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps

                  I see.  Well, the ones I have measure .427 tall by .177 wide with a .218 lip at the bottom.  Hoping someone out there has a source for these.   If not, I still appreciate all the information from all of you.


                  Rick



                  ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <jhbivusa@...> wrote:

                  Hello again,

                  Grain of wheat bulbs are available from Model Power, Walthers and
                  others like Micro Mark and M B Klein (modeltrainstuff.com). The ones
                  available do not have metal bases but instead have twin wire leads to
                  the bulb. Generally the cost is $1 or less per bulb. Grain of rice
                  bulbs are also available (smaller).

                  Jake Bechtel
                  Gadsden, AL

                  On 10/3/13, ratcatzdogz@... <ratcatzdogz@...> wrote:
                  > alass no they were grin of wheat lights and they were replaced by LEDs
                  >
                  > From: Jacob Bechtel
                  > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 4:38 PM
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  > I'm not sure what they look like but I have or can get several small
                  > lamps that use a spring clip as one side of the contact.
                  >
                  > Jake Bechtel
                  > Gadsden, AL
                  >
                  > On 10/3/13, flick23@... <flick23@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Hi again,
                  >>
                  >> Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature
                  >> (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are
                  >> held
                  >> in with a metallic strip?
                  >>
                  >> Thanks in advance.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21482 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/3/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Are these flanged metal base bulbs?

                  like this..... ??

                  http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/oybs6.39kfn/v/vspfiles/photos/44265-2.jpg

                  or... http://tinyurl.com/nf2qlbm

                  Here is a place to hunt for the mount and voltage you need, 36 pages of them.

                  http://www.bulbtown.com/MINIATURE_INDICATOR_BULBS_BY_NUMBER_s/53.htm

                  Best to ya...
                  Mike Bauers
                  Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                  On Oct 3, 2013, at 4:33 PM, <flick23@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Hi again,
                  >
                  > Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21483 From: Dale F. Smith Date: 10/4/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21484 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  On 10/4/2013 10:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:
                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.


                  Ifyou have at least one sample, have you tried one of those places like "Batterys +"

                  It was very common in those years to use things like miniature flashlight batteries and such for illumination, most of which are  probably still made.

                  Don
                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21485 From: Rick Date: 10/5/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Hi Dale,

                  RFG just takes my money and doesn't ship my parts.  They are known for being rip off artists.

                  I don't think Doug (port) has them, but will try sss and the guy in Tehachapi.

                  Thanks for the advice.

                  Rick

                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.




                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21486 From: peytonharvey82 Date: 10/5/2013
                  Subject: 1950's Rock Lake Kit #1 Operating Rotary Dumper, Trestle and Con

                  Operating Rotary Dumper, Trestle and Conveyor

                   

                  Rock Lane Models Kit # 1


                  Made by Rock Lane Models

                  835 Rock Lane

                  Elkins Park, Pennsylvania

                   

                   

                                 This is an old kit (1950's) HO Scale kit that actually operates by weights and pulleys (included). From the car barney, to the rotary dumper, and even the belt driven conveyor under the storage hopper. An all wood kit with metal weights and wheels for the pulley system.  You can also build it using three motors and one servo for a more realistic operation.

                           The kit is complete with detailed, to scale, instructions and 2 pounds of wood and metal parts. All bundled and packaged the way it was first shipped.

                           The estimated footprint of this kit is 80” to 90” long, 12+” high, and at least 12+” wide with three tracks setup.

                  Picture upon request to serious buyers.


                  Please contact me at peytonwi at wi.rr.com

                   

                   I'm asking $150.00 plus $12.00 shipping. 

                  Intenational shipping would be at the 2 pound rate.

                  We will accept PayPal, Personal Check, or Money Orders.


                  Thanks for looking,  Peyton Harvey


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21487 From: Rick Date: 10/6/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Dale,

                  Are there a better power packs?  I've got a  bunch of 501s, but running them with lighted cars doesn't work so well.  I think I need two amps to make it work.
                  Makes me wonder how much better it was in the past, because Flyer trines worked so well.


                  buckch
                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.




                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21488 From: rick.flaherty Date: 10/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps

                  Looks like Lionel 191-300 is going to take care of the bulb issue. 



                  ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <flick23@...> wrote:

                  Dale,

                  Are there a better power packs?  I've got a  bunch of 501s, but running them with lighted cars doesn't work so well.  I think I need two amps to make it work.
                  Makes me wonder how much better it was in the past, because Flyer trines worked so well.


                  buckch
                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.




                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21489 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Not sure about what 501's are.  It's not a Gilbert number for an HO power pack.   It is a hopper car though.

                  Dale


                  On 10/6/2013 10:06 PM, Rick wrote:
                   

                  Dale,


                  Are there a better power packs?  I've got a  bunch of 501s, but running them with lighted cars doesn't work so well.  I think I need two amps to make it work.
                  Makes me wonder how much better it was in the past, because Flyer trines worked so well.


                  buckch
                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.





                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21490 From: Rick Date: 10/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Hi dale,


                  I'm looking for something that can deliver more amperage.

                  Rick

                  On Oct 7, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Dale Smith wrote:

                   

                  Not sure about what 501's are.  It's not a Gilbert number for an HO power pack.   It is a hopper car though.

                  Dale


                  On 10/6/2013 10:06 PM, Rick wrote:
                   

                  Dale,


                  Are there a better power packs?  I've got a  bunch of 501s, but running them with lighted cars doesn't work so well.  I think I need two amps to make it work.
                  Makes me wonder how much better it was in the past, because Flyer trines worked so well.


                  buckch
                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.







                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21491 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  You are probably right about needing more power.   That MRC power pack puts out just about 1 amp.   With Gilbert, in addition to lamp draw from passenger cars, you can also have a smoke unit adding to the power draw.   There are a myriad of Gilbert power packs, all put one of which put out more than 1 amp.  The Gilbert power packs appear to be relabeled Scintilla in the early years and MRC in the later years.

                  Dale
                  On 10/7/2013 7:41 PM, Rick wrote:
                   

                  Hi dale,



                  I'm looking for something that can deliver more amperage.

                  Rick

                  On Oct 7, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Dale Smith wrote:

                   

                  Not sure about what 501's are.  It's not a Gilbert number for an HO power pack.   It is a hopper car though.

                  Dale


                  On 10/6/2013 10:06 PM, Rick wrote:
                   

                  Dale,


                  Are there a better power packs?  I've got a  bunch of 501s, but running them with lighted cars doesn't work so well.  I think I need two amps to make it work.
                  Makes me wonder how much better it was in the past, because Flyer trines worked so well.


                  buckch
                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.








                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21492 From: Rick Date: 10/7/2013
                  Subject: Re: Gilbert passenger car lamps
                  Hi Dale,

                  So, do you have any suggestions?  Maybe something that I should look for?

                  Rick

                  On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:40 PM, Dale Smith wrote:

                   

                  You are probably right about needing more power.   That MRC power pack puts out just about 1 amp.   With Gilbert, in addition to lamp draw from passenger cars, you can also have a smoke unit adding to the power draw.   There are a myriad of Gilbert power packs, all put one of which put out more than 1 amp.  The Gilbert power packs appear to be relabeled Scintilla in the early years and MRC in the later years.

                  Dale

                  On 10/7/2013 7:41 PM, Rick wrote:
                   

                  Hi dale,



                  I'm looking for something that can deliver more amperage.

                  Rick

                  On Oct 7, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Dale Smith wrote:

                   

                  Not sure about what 501's are.  It's not a Gilbert number for an HO power pack.   It is a hopper car though.

                  Dale


                  On 10/6/2013 10:06 PM, Rick wrote:
                   

                  Dale,


                  Are there a better power packs?  I've got a  bunch of 501s, but running them with lighted cars doesn't work so well.  I think I need two amps to make it work.
                  Makes me wonder how much better it was in the past, because Flyer trines worked so well.


                  buckch
                  On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Dale F. Smith wrote:

                   

                  I think your best bet would be to check the major Gilbert parts suppliers.  Though they are primarily S gauge, they also have HO parts.

                  Try Portlines Hobbies  www.portlines.com
                  Triple S supplies    www.ssstrains.com
                  R.F. Giardina    www.rfgco.com (though his prices tend to be a bit higher)

                  Also there is a Gilbert HO enthusiast, Bruce Gripkey, who sells HO parts.   He can be reached at
                  661-822-6656. 

                  Dale Smith



                  On 10/3/2013 2:33 PM, flick23@... wrote:
                   

                  Hi again,

                  Does anybody out there know where one can still get those micro miniature (itst bitsy) light bulbs that went into the bottoms of the cars and are held in with a metallic strip?

                  Thanks in advance.










                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21493 From: John H Date: 10/7/2013
                  Subject: Unknow drive
                  Group,

                  Check eBay auction # 310763284035. It is for a Lindsay NW 2 switcher but with a drive I'm totally not familiar with. The seller is also not aware of the drive or the body for that matter albeit he seems pretty certain it is a Lindsay shell. Going by the cast-on handrails the body is definitely Lindsay. But I am really curious about that drive.

                  Anyone recognize it? It appears to be a quality item but ....

                  BTW, I have no vested interest in this piece although I am thinking of going for it.

                  John Hagen
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21494 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: Unknow drive
                  My, that is nice!

                  I hope you take it home.


                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Oct 8, 2013, at 1:28 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                  > Group,
                  >
                  > Check eBay auction # 310763284035. It is for a Lindsay NW 2 switcher but with a drive I'm totally not familiar with. The seller is also not aware of the drive or the body for that matter albeit he seems pretty certain it is a Lindsay shell. Going by the cast-on handrails the body is definitely Lindsay. But I am really curious about that drive.
                  >
                  > Anyone recognize it? It appears to be a quality item but ....
                  >
                  > BTW, I have no vested interest in this piece although I am thinking of going for it.
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21495 From: ablecynic Date: 10/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: Unknow drive
                  John,

                  I can't tell from the photos, but that looks like a drive that Kemtron offered for a while, but was something they acquired from another manufacturer. There were several people who offered power units for early diesels that used a large motor driving a spring belt that drove the worm shaft on one truck and also used a cardan shaft to drive the rear truck. Both Suydam and MEW used similar drives in their locos.

                  Good catch and I hope you get it!

                  Matt Coleman

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Group,
                  >
                  > Check eBay auction # 310763284035. It is for a Lindsay NW 2 switcher but with a drive I'm totally not familiar with. The seller is also not aware of the drive or the body for that matter albeit he seems pretty certain it is a Lindsay shell. Going by the cast-on handrails the body is definitely Lindsay. But I am really curious about that drive.
                  >
                  > Anyone recognize it? It appears to be a quality item but ....
                  >
                  > BTW, I have no vested interest in this piece although I am thinking of going for it.
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21496 From: Germain Golembowski Date: 10/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: Unknow drive
                  Hi John:
                   
                  I kind of remember how this drive worked... The motor is a Pittman type and the flywheel has a grove which holds a pulley arrangement... The pulley was very much like rubber gaskets sold in plumbing supply stores...  Other  like arrangements had a small steel coil spring used instead of a rubber gasket.... This kind of drive was shown in MR in the mid 50s..
                   
                  G A "Jerry" Golembowski
                  Grandy, NC
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:43 AM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknow drive

                   

                  My, that is nice!

                  I hope you take it home.

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Oct 8, 2013, at 1:28 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                  > Group,
                  >
                  > Check eBay auction # 310763284035. It is for a Lindsay NW 2 switcher but with a drive I'm totally not familiar with. The seller is also not aware of the drive or the body for that matter albeit he seems pretty certain it is a Lindsay shell. Going by the cast-on handrails the body is definitely Lindsay. But I am really curious about that drive.
                  >
                  > Anyone recognize it? It appears to be a quality item but ....
                  >
                  > BTW, I have no vested interest in this piece although I am thinking of going for it.
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21497 From: mwbauers Date: 10/8/2013
                  Subject: O-rings
                  I just added a link to 'links' for the O-ring Warehouse. While obscure, they stock 'rubber' o-rings in all diameters and thicknesses.


                  We know how hard it can be to get the right o-rings for our vintage model locomotive drivers and drive-belts.

                  Mike Bauers
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21498 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/8/2013
                  Subject: Re: O-rings
                  Big Thanks to Mike for a much needed link !!
                  Jake Bechtel

                  On 10/8/13, mwbauers55@... <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                  > I just added a link to 'links' for the O-ring Warehouse. While obscure, they
                  > stock 'rubber' o-rings in all diameters and thicknesses.
                  >
                  >
                  > We know how hard it can be to get the right o-rings for our vintage model
                  > locomotive drivers and drive-belts.
                  >
                  >
                  > Mike Bauers
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21499 From: Sherrie Date: 10/11/2013
                  Subject: Bowser Steam
                  The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills) on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one. Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin, WI
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21500 From: Mike Bauers Date: 10/11/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.

                  It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping and modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.

                  These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make almost no kits in our hobby.

                  You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay and swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.

                  Mike Bauers
                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...> wrote:

                  > The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills) on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one. Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >
                  > Brad Smith
                  > Franklin, WI
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----------------------------------
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21501 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/12/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  Hi Mike.

                  I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  craftsmanship to build.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.
                  >
                  > It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping and
                  > modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.
                  >
                  > These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make
                  > almost no kits in our hobby.
                  >
                  > You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge
                  > amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay and
                  > swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.
                  >
                  > Mike Bauers
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  >
                  > On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills)
                  >> on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a
                  >> Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one.
                  >> Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make
                  >> the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who
                  >> build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR
                  >> locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >>
                  >> Brad Smith
                  >> Franklin, WI
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----------------------------------
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21502 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/12/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam

                  While I can agree about steam engines, I can not about freight and passenger cars.  Some plastic kits do go together quickly, the resin kits take considerable more time.  The cast sides and ends give more detail than wood kits, but take the same or more time.  You still have to drill holes for grabs and ladders.  Detailing the underside with a Cal Scale brake set is involved for sure with all of the piping.  They are also not pre-painted/lettered, so there is painting plus the decaling.  There seem to be a large number of these kits being created for modelers all the time.  And there are the passenger car side kits either plated brass or plastic, they require some skill as well. 

                   

                  I am looking forward to building the Bowser/Penn line steamers I have found on E-Bay.  And also rebuilding the used ones I have been able to acquire.  If only time allows for all of this.  I do not know of any new steam engine kits and doubt we will see them again.

                   

                  Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

                  https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

                   


                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Joel Holmes
                  Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 9:29 AM
                  To: Vintage HO Group
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                   

                  Hi Mike.

                  I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  craftsmanship to build.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.
                  >
                  > It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping and
                  > modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.
                  >
                  > These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make
                  > almost no kits in our hobby.
                  >
                  > You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge
                  > amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay and
                  > swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.
                  >
                  > Mike Bauers
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  >
                  > On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >> The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills)
                  >> on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a
                  >> Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one.
                  >> Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make
                  >> the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who
                  >> build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR
                  >> locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >>
                  >> Brad Smith
                  >> Franklin ,
                  w:st="on">WI
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----------------------------------
                  >

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21503 From: John Hagen Date: 10/12/2013
                  Subject: Re: Kits available

                  I have several kits available for sale. All are projects I’ve had on hand that I will never get done.

                   

                  Don’t get emu wrong here; I’m not dumping all my projects. Just trying to get the number down to something that I feel may actually be doable for a guy at 70.

                   

                  Offhand without going through the closet I have un-built/un-started with instructions in the OB;

                   

                  A Lindsay FA with an added eight wheel drive conversion. Will need a drive shaft for the conversion as the kit did not include one. These are available from Hobbytown (on eBay) or NWSL.

                   

                  A Kemtron diecast Baldwin diesel switcher with a Lindsay power truck as the kit originally came with. However when I bought it the power truck had been sold separately . I did get an replacement off eBay and it is the correct, short wheelbase one for switchers (identical to the one in my Lindsay NW-2).

                   

                  At least one complete MDC Roundhouse 0-6-0’s in un-built/un-started condition. I have various original MDC boxes including two or three 0-6-0 boxes, and at least of which has the original cardboard insert. Plus I have other MDC o-6-0’s in various stages of completion and/or re-kitted ones. Not sure about instructions but they are available on hoseeker.net.

                   

                  Mantua 0-4-0’s and 0-6-0’s both tender and tank types. No OB’s or un-built kits but I can make up just about whatever you may want.

                   

                  Various car kits, mostly of the more-or-less craftsman type.

                   

                  Unfortunately a lot of this stuff is at our storage facility but I will be getting to that soon.

                   

                  If you are looking for interested in anything or looking for something contact me OFF LIST.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Holmes
                  Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29 AM
                  To: Vintage HO Group
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                   

                  Hi Mike.

                  I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  craftsmanship to build.

                  Joel Holmes


                  Reply via web post

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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21504 From: Sean Naylor Date: 10/12/2013
                  Subject: A very rare find!
                  This model has two names. "Betsy" of the Polson Logging Co locomotive and it originally was the Northern Pacific "Minnetonka".

                  The Minnetonka was built by Smith and Porter, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (my hometown), in 1869. It was sold for $6700 to the North Pacific Railroad in 1870 to be used to help build the transcontinental railroad. In 1886 the wood-burning locomotive was sold to the Polson Logging Company, Hoquiam, Washington. It was used to pull log trains. They named her "Old Betsy". In 1920 the locomotive was found in the woods rusting away like a discarded bunch of scrap. In 1933 Northern Pacific purchased and restored it for display at various civic functions. When BNSF took over, "Old Betsy" was placed on permanent loan to the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in Duluth, Minnesota. Today it is on public display looking like a brand new Minnetonka, named after Minnetonka, Minnesota.

                  I purchased the model last week in eBay for $45 total inc s/h. When I saw it, I had recognized the similarities with other Ken Kidder models, but I had never before seen this exact model. I did not look close enough to notice that it was hand made. This can be seen in the rivet details not being perfectly spaced and aligned like a machine would do.

                  Below is a reply to an email I received yesterday morning. It was from a gentleman in Japan to whom I had sold an early Tenshodo brass and die cast 0-6-0 to last year. Monday, Via email, I had requested his assistance in identifying this locomotive. I did not know at that time that he was at one time a publisher/editor of Train magazine in Japan as well as the co-author of "The Brown Book" of brass trains. This was his reply:

                  "Hi, Sean

                  I had seen the similar model once when I had edited "The Tenshodo Book". The model is preserved in the guest room of Tenshodo, today. I have never seen other piece in Japan.

                  The model was hand-made by a craftsman who had the contract with the Tenshodo in early stage of their business. It is seemed that the model was resembled to the Northern Pacific's old engine "Minetonkka" which is displayed in the museum in Duluth, Minn, today.

                  Tenshodo established their model division in 1949. At their starting of the business, they do not have any of the production model except the Dye-casting 0-6-0 tank engine by the New-one Models which I have purchased from you recently.

                  So they had to made many types of the true hand-built model using various of sub-contractor who were amateur craftsmen. They hand-built each model few pieces up to 10, normally 3-5 pieces. They always did the jobs in full scratch not using Dye-pressing or etching as well as casing parts.

                  In this model, you can see any of the riveting by hand punched one by one.

                  At that time, the most of the customer of the Tenshodo were the person in the U.S. Military which was occupied Japan. Not only the own project, Tenshodo had accepted the custom order from these good customers.

                  Even in Tenshodo, there is no record what types had hand-made in those days, because their hand made craftsmen often finished the order, sometimes, every week.

                  In the Kawai or the Tetsudo Mokeisha, they also did such type of hand-built accepting the custom orders by the U.S. military person. Some times, one craftsman sold same type of his craft to 2-3 hobbyshops as the contract was so-loose because of not-using any of supplied-parts from their parent company.

                  Such type hand-built models had lasted to 1952 or 1953. It is seemed that the Ken-Kidder or the International also had purchased these "Un-registered" models in their very early stage through Tenshodo or Tetsudo Mokeisyha.

                  Then, around 1954-1955, the brass model business turned to "Production model days" such as the FT diesels by Tenshodo or the South Shore steeple cab electric by Kawai.

                  This is the story which I know about the model you asks me. I believe the model is quite valuable because it is just historical piece in the brass models, beyond the price.

                  I hope this will help your study even a littele bit.

                  Best reagrds

                  Kenichi (Matsumoto)

                  Such an awesome history lesson!

                  どうもありがとうございました
                  Dōmo arigatōgozaimashita! Mr. Matsumoto!!

                  My understanding now of this model is that it probably dates from approx 1950. It is hand made and therefore it is most likely a very limited production, say 10 or more likely 3 to 5 models or less possibly? Finally, it's value is quite high both for it's rarity and more importantly it's historical lineage.

                  Man, I had a gut feeling about this one! I feel pretty lucky to have picked it up!
                    @@attachment@@
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21505 From: ablecynic Date: 10/13/2013
                  Subject: Re: A very rare find!
                  Sean,

                  That is a rare bird of an historic loco. Thanks for the photos and glad it went to someone who has some sense of its historic value!

                  Matt

                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > This model has two names. "Betsy" of the Polson Logging Co locomotive and it originally was the Northern Pacific "Minnetonka".
                  >
                  > The Minnetonka was built by Smith and Porter, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (my hometown), in 1869. It was sold for $6700 to the North Pacific Railroad in 1870 to be used to help build the transcontinental railroad. In 1886 the wood-burning locomotive was sold to the Polson Logging Company, Hoquiam, Washington. It was used to pull log trains. They named her "Old Betsy". In 1920 the locomotive was found in the woods rusting away like a discarded bunch of scrap. In 1933 Northern Pacific purchased and restored it for display at various civic functions. When BNSF took over, "Old Betsy" was placed on permanent loan to the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in Duluth, Minnesota. Today it is on public display looking like a brand new Minnetonka, named after Minnetonka, Minnesota.
                  >
                  > I purchased the model last week in eBay for $45 total inc s/h. When I saw it, I had recognized the similarities with other Ken Kidder models, but I had never before seen this exact model. I did not look close enough to notice that it was hand made. This can be seen in the rivet details not being perfectly spaced and aligned like a machine would do.
                  >
                  > Below is a reply to an email I received yesterday morning. It was from a gentleman in Japan to whom I had sold an early Tenshodo brass and die cast 0-6-0 to last year. Monday, Via email, I had requested his assistance in identifying this locomotive. I did not know at that time that he was at one time a publisher/editor of Train magazine in Japan as well as the co-author of "The Brown Book" of brass trains. This was his reply:
                  >
                  > "Hi, Sean
                  >
                  > I had seen the similar model once when I had edited "The Tenshodo Book". The model is preserved in the guest room of Tenshodo, today. I have never seen other piece in Japan.
                  >
                  > The model was hand-made by a craftsman who had the contract with the Tenshodo in early stage of their business. It is seemed that the model was resembled to the Northern Pacific's old engine "Minetonkka" which is displayed in the museum in Duluth, Minn, today.
                  >
                  > Tenshodo established their model division in 1949. At their starting of the business, they do not have any of the production model except the Dye-casting 0-6-0 tank engine by the New-one Models which I have purchased from you recently.
                  >
                  > So they had to made many types of the true hand-built model using various of sub-contractor who were amateur craftsmen. They hand-built each model few pieces up to 10, normally 3-5 pieces. They always did the jobs in full scratch not using Dye-pressing or etching as well as casing parts.
                  >
                  > In this model, you can see any of the riveting by hand punched one by one.
                  >
                  > At that time, the most of the customer of the Tenshodo were the person in the U.S. Military which was occupied Japan. Not only the own project, Tenshodo had accepted the custom order from these good customers.
                  >
                  > Even in Tenshodo, there is no record what types had hand-made in those days, because their hand made craftsmen often finished the order, sometimes, every week.
                  >
                  > In the Kawai or the Tetsudo Mokeisha, they also did such type of hand-built accepting the custom orders by the U.S. military person. Some times, one craftsman sold same type of his craft to 2-3 hobbyshops as the contract was so-loose because of not-using any of supplied-parts from their parent company.
                  >
                  > Such type hand-built models had lasted to 1952 or 1953. It is seemed that the Ken-Kidder or the International also had purchased these "Un-registered" models in their very early stage through Tenshodo or Tetsudo Mokeisyha.
                  >
                  > Then, around 1954-1955, the brass model business turned to "Production model days" such as the FT diesels by Tenshodo or the South Shore steeple cab electric by Kawai.
                  >
                  > This is the story which I know about the model you asks me. I believe the model is quite valuable because it is just historical piece in the brass models, beyond the price.
                  >
                  > I hope this will help your study even a littele bit.
                  >
                  > Best reagrds
                  >
                  > Kenichi (Matsumoto)
                  >
                  > Such an awesome history lesson!
                  >
                  > どうもありがとうã"ざいました
                  > Dōmo arigatōgozaimashita! Mr. Matsumoto!!
                  >
                  > My understanding now of this model is that it probably dates from approx 1950. It is hand made and therefore it is most likely a very limited production, say 10 or more likely 3 to 5 models or less possibly? Finally, it's value is quite high both for it's rarity and more importantly it's historical lineage.
                  >
                  > Man, I had a gut feeling about this one! I feel pretty lucky to have picked it up!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sean
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21506 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/13/2013
                  Subject: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  Attended the Spokane, WA., Train Show today. An older gentleman was
                  there selling his father's old, "trains." (Seller was never, "into,"
                  trains) I picked up a 4-8-2 after trying in vain to figure out what
                  manufacture it was. The Vandy tender was easy, as it has Varney cast
                  into the underframe. "Top," is missing, but they are supposed to
                  mail it to me. Cast metal; not brass. Engine and tender painted
                  black and lettered for GN.

                  Locomotive is very heavy and from looking closely at one scratch on
                  the paint, looks to be cast brass. (I still categorize this as
                  speculation so far) Frame looks to be cast brass with flat brass
                  plate on the underside. Pilot truck frame is simple brass
                  channel. Alligator crosshead; fluted rods; has valve gear. Worm
                  gear from motor sits over second driver and each end of the worm
                  meets a round-ball bearing. All drivers are flanged. NO identifying
                  marks......so far.

                  I've never seen an ad for a Varney 4-8-2, so I can't figure out what
                  I have. Anyone could have mated up this Varney tender.

                  Spokane usually does not have much, if anything, for interesting
                  vintage HO. I'd take pictures this week and post them, but I don't
                  know what all Yahoo has fouled up for doing that now. So with this
                  poor initial description, perhaps a good first question to you all
                  is: who made cast brass boiler 4-8-2's?

                  Also got another item and will post that separately.

                  Dennis in E WA state
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21507 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/13/2013
                  Subject: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                  The slim pickings today at the Spokane Train show did yield a
                  Hobbytown E unit for me. I got it primarily because their heft and
                  massive drive system intrigues me. The box was with it, yellow, and
                  end markings read: " EMD E Unit, Flywheel Drive, Power Chassis Kit
                  No. A7608F." Original price $45.00. I paid $20. The motor sits
                  over and ahead of the rear truck. Drive shaft, (brass shaft),
                  extends to over the front truck where the flywheel is and the gear
                  reduction that powers the lead axle of the front truck. Drive line
                  runs from front truck to rear truck, under the frame,......and
                  through the rear truck to a universal coupler with a very short drive
                  shaft sticking out behind. All typical Hobbytown I'm sure. What
                  puzzles me is the rear drive shaft. Was this for powering a trailing
                  dummy unit? There is even a bare, short shaft sticking out in the
                  front of the lead truck.

                  Body casting has a so-so orange/black paint job. There are 8 holes
                  in the carbody roof but no parts to fill them. While the frame has
                  various holes for mounting, I see NOTHING in the carbody whereby the
                  frame can be attached. I guess I need to go to HO Seeker or
                  somewhere and try to find an exploded parts diagram.

                  Thoughts on dating and anything else about these would interest me.

                  Thanks,
                  Denniks
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21508 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/13/2013
                  Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  Dear Dennis,
                  Sounds greatly like the Bowser of Redlands mountain with the
                  Varney cast aluminum tender. Check out the drawings on HOseeker.

                  Jacob Bechtel

                  On 10/13/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  > Attended the Spokane, WA., Train Show today. An older gentleman was
                  > there selling his father's old, "trains." (Seller was never, "into,"
                  > trains) I picked up a 4-8-2 after trying in vain to figure out what
                  > manufacture it was. The Vandy tender was easy, as it has Varney cast
                  > into the underframe. "Top," is missing, but they are supposed to
                  > mail it to me. Cast metal; not brass. Engine and tender painted
                  > black and lettered for GN.
                  >
                  > Locomotive is very heavy and from looking closely at one scratch on
                  > the paint, looks to be cast brass. (I still categorize this as
                  > speculation so far) Frame looks to be cast brass with flat brass
                  > plate on the underside. Pilot truck frame is simple brass
                  > channel. Alligator crosshead; fluted rods; has valve gear. Worm
                  > gear from motor sits over second driver and each end of the worm
                  > meets a round-ball bearing. All drivers are flanged. NO identifying
                  > marks......so far.
                  >
                  > I've never seen an ad for a Varney 4-8-2, so I can't figure out what
                  > I have. Anyone could have mated up this Varney tender.
                  >
                  > Spokane usually does not have much, if anything, for interesting
                  > vintage HO. I'd take pictures this week and post them, but I don't
                  > know what all Yahoo has fouled up for doing that now. So with this
                  > poor initial description, perhaps a good first question to you all
                  > is: who made cast brass boiler 4-8-2's?
                  >
                  > Also got another item and will post that separately.
                  >
                  > Dennis in E WA state
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21509 From: John Hagen Date: 10/13/2013
                  Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                  Dennis,

                   

                  I can’t say about the possible mounting of the shell to the drive but the rear driveshaft to nowhere is for the Hobbytown “Multi-drive” system where one powered loco could drive additional units with just one motor. While it sounds like a way to overload a motor those Hobbytown covered wagon units could be had with “O” scale motors (plenty of room in those wide car body’s). I know people who would just load up the second unit with lead and could just about pull down 12 inch-to-the-foot concrete block walls! Close friend used nothing but Hobbytown drives in F units with huge can motors AND Cary shells. Their lead antimony bodies weighed more than the original Hobbytowns. Damn things would pull anything.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Thompson
                  Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:51 PM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                   

                   

                  The slim pickings today at the Spokane Train show did yield a
                  Hobbytown E unit for me. I got it primarily because their heft and
                  massive drive system intrigues me. The box was with it, yellow, and
                  end markings read: " EMD E Unit, Flywheel Drive, Power Chassis Kit
                  No. A7608F." Original price $45.00. I paid $20. The motor sits
                  over and ahead of the rear truck. Drive shaft, (brass shaft),
                  extends to over the front truck where the flywheel is and the gear
                  reduction that powers the lead axle of the front truck. Drive line
                  runs from front truck to rear truck, under the frame,......and
                  through the rear truck to a universal coupler with a very short drive
                  shaft sticking out behind. All typical Hobbytown I'm sure. What
                  puzzles me is the rear drive shaft. Was this for powering a trailing
                  dummy unit? There is even a bare, short shaft sticking out in the
                  front of the lead truck.

                  Body casting has a so-so orange/black paint job. There are 8 holes
                  in the carbody roof but no parts to fill them. While the frame has
                  various holes for mounting, I see NOTHING in the carbody whereby the
                  frame can be attached. I guess I need to go to HO Seeker or
                  somewhere and try to find an exploded parts diagram.

                  Thoughts on dating and anything else about these would interest me.

                  Thanks,
                  Denniks

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21510 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                  On 10/14/2013 12:19 AM, John Hagen wrote:

                  Dennis,

                   

                  I can’t say about the possible mounting of the shell to the drive but the rear driveshaft to nowhere is for the Hobbytown “Multi-drive” system where one powered loco could drive additional units with just one motor. While it sounds like a way to overload a motor those Hobbytown covered wagon units could be had with “O” scale motors (plenty of room in those wide car body’s). I know people who would just load up the second unit with lead and could just about pull down 12 inch-to-the-foot concrete block walls! Close friend used nothing but Hobbytown drives in F units with huge can motors AND Cary shells. Their lead antimony bodies weighed more than the original Hobbytowns. Damn things would pull anything.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  I wonder what ever happened to those F unts. (if they're the ones I'm thinkimg of)  One night we had 4 pairs at the point "AB+BA+AB+BA" and another AB+BA about 160 cars back (he used Dynatrol) and we were pullling a 350 car train.I had a videotape of it, but I don't know what happened to it.

                  Don

                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21511 From: Dave Audley Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                  We expect at least one vintage train seller at the Annual Boomer Auction this
                  coming Saturday here in Calgary at St Andrews Presbyterian Church! The doors
                  open at 9:30 AM and the Auction Starts at 11:00 AM!
                  Dave Audley

                  --------------------------------------------
                  On Sun, 10/13/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:

                  Subject: [vintageHO] Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Sunday, October 13, 2013, 10:51 PM
















                   









                  The slim pickings today at the Spokane Train show
                  did yield a

                  Hobbytown E unit for me. I got it primarily because their
                  heft and

                  massive drive system intrigues me. The box was with it,
                  yellow, and

                  end markings read: " EMD E Unit, Flywheel Drive, Power
                  Chassis Kit

                  No. A7608F." Original price $45.00. I paid $20. The
                  motor sits

                  over and ahead of the rear truck. Drive shaft, (brass
                  shaft),

                  extends to over the front truck where the flywheel is and
                  the gear

                  reduction that powers the lead axle of the front truck.
                  Drive line

                  runs from front truck to rear truck, under the
                  frame,......and

                  through the rear truck to a universal coupler with a very
                  short drive

                  shaft sticking out behind. All typical Hobbytown I'm
                  sure. What

                  puzzles me is the rear drive shaft. Was this for powering a
                  trailing

                  dummy unit? There is even a bare, short shaft sticking out
                  in the

                  front of the lead truck.



                  Body casting has a so-so orange/black paint job. There are
                  8 holes

                  in the carbody roof but no parts to fill them. While the
                  frame has

                  various holes for mounting, I see NOTHING in the carbody
                  whereby the

                  frame can be attached. I guess I need to go to HO Seeker or


                  somewhere and try to find an exploded parts diagram.



                  Thoughts on dating and anything else about these would
                  interest me.



                  Thanks,

                  Denniks
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21512 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                  Don,

                   

                  Yeah, I know. I’ve wondered that myself.

                   

                  To the rest of the group, the way he weighted his cars at one ounce over NMRA practice, that train, less the engines would have weighed close to 120 pounds!

                   

                  I  know the 227 car train he ran during the 1985 NMRA convention ran something close to 80 lbs. That he ran with the ABBA set of Athearn F7 shelled Hobbytown’s up front and that OMG ABA set of Cary shelled Hobbytown FT’s a third of the way back. And his layout had 1.5% grades and 96” RADIUS curves. All his cars had CV trucks which were free rolling for the times but were nowhere near as free rolling as today’s trucks. And that train ran hours upon hours during the convention with no problems what-so-ever.

                   

                  He had so many F’s I can’t recall exactly what they were and which ones were multi-drives. But I know that ABA FT set was way powerful. He put the one Athearn set on the point as he would start them first and, because of their relative light weight, they would stretch out the first third of the train but not have the tractive effort to derail any of his heavy cars and then start the FT’s. I don’t recall if the ABBA Set had the low speed gear sets but he would keep that set pulling a tad faster than the FT’s (Which did have the low speed gears) so it would pull the front section of the train and the FT’s lugged the rest around his “bent straight track” as he called it.

                   

                  While digesting these weight figures, consider if you will the strength of Kadee number 5 couplers!

                   

                  Those were fun times.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 3:59 AM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc: John Hagen
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                   

                   

                  I wonder what ever happened to those F unts. (if they're the ones I'm thinkimg of)  One night we had 4 pairs at the point "AB+BA+AB+BA" and another AB+BA about 160 cars back (he used Dynatrol) and we were pullling a 350 car train.I had a videotape of it, but I don't know what happened to it.

                  Don


                  -- 
                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21513 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Train shows

                  On the subject of Train shows, on Saturday, November 2nd, the Saturday between Halloween and Trainfest, the Wisconsin’s Greatest Rail Fans (WGRF), will be having a slide and railroadiana swap meet and slide show at Randy's Neighbor's Inn, 6922 W. Becher St. in West Allis, Wisconsin. Swap meet starts at 1 p.m. and the slide show at 7 p.m. There is a $3.00 admission to cover the cost of the room.

                   

                  These shows were always fun to attend and guess what? They still are.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Audley
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 6:52 AM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                   

                   

                  We expect at least one vintage train seller at the Annual Boomer Auction this
                  coming Saturday here in Calgary at St Andrews Presbyterian Church! The doors
                  open at 9:30 AM and the Auction Starts at 11:00 AM!
                  Dave Audley


                  Reply via web post

                  Reply to sender

                  Reply to group

                  Start a New Topic

                  Messages in this topic (8)

                  Recent Activity:

                  ·         New Members 1

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                  .

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21514 From: shawmut_fan Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  There is absolutely no shortage of resin kits.  But if by "kits" you mean well-designed wood/metal kits of the Northeastern/Ambroid or LaBelle sort, you're right.  But the resin kits are every bit as challenging as anything made in the past and are much more detailed. 

                  John B. Allyn


                  From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
                  To: "Vintage HO Group" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29:24 AM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                  Hi Mike.

                  I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  craftsmanship to build.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.
                  >
                  > It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping and
                  > modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.
                  >
                  > These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make
                  > almost no kits in our hobby.
                  >
                  > You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge
                  > amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay and
                  > swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.
                  >
                  > Mike Bauers
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  >
                  > On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills)
                  >> on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a
                  >> Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one.
                  >> Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make
                  >> the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who
                  >> build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR
                  >> locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >>
                  >> Brad Smith
                  >> Franklin, WI
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----------------------------------
                  >

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21515 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  Hi John,

                  I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > There is absolutely no shortage of resin kits.  But if  by "kits" you
                  > mean well-designed wood/metal kits of the Northeastern/Ambroid or LaBelle
                  > sort, you're right.  But the resin kits are every bit as challenging as
                  > anything made in the past and are much more detailed. 
                  >
                  >
                  > John B. Allyn
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
                  > To: "Vintage HO Group" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29:24 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Mike.
                  >
                  > I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  > are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  > takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  > hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  > locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  > exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  > craftsmanship to build.
                  >
                  > Joel Holmes
                  >
                  >> Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.
                  >>
                  >> It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping
                  >> and
                  >> modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.
                  >>
                  >> These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make
                  >> almost no kits in our hobby.
                  >>
                  >> You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge
                  >> amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay
                  >> and
                  >> swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.
                  >>
                  >> Mike Bauers
                  >> Sent from my iPhone
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills)
                  >>> on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a
                  >>> Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one.
                  >>> Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make
                  >>> the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who
                  >>> build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR
                  >>> locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >>>
                  >>> Brad Smith
                  >>> Franklin, WI
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> -----------------------------------
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21516 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam

                  Joel and group,

                   

                  Interesting area of discussion. Are resin kits craftsman kits? Kinda depends on one’s personal view point.

                   

                  Do they require the amount and type of effort to assemble? Oh yes they do. Are they the good old wood and metals kits from our past? No. The types of skills, although certainly just as necessary, is somewhat different. Many, myself included, will want to  put resin kits in a different classification, whether or not that is in truth the case.

                   

                  I personally like to mess around with die cast locomotives and cars (ala Ulrich). I also would really like to do more of the old style Ambroid and Silver Streak kits, if I had the time to do so. But alas over the years I did most of my bashing a detailing work in plastic. And I have several project awaiting my attentions right now. Likely more than my 70 years of age will allow. So, although I would LIKE to attempt some resin kit building, I doubt I will get to do any.

                   

                  But to answer the question of craftsman or not, they are craftsman in actual practice but not in the classical sense.

                   

                  Hope this non-answer helps confuse everyone. It did me.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Holmes
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:07 AM
                  To: Vintage HO Group
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                   

                  Hi John,

                  I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.

                  Joel Holmes


                  Reply via web post

                  Reply to sender

                  Reply to group

                  Start a New Topic

                  Messages in this topic (7)

                  Recent Activity:

                  ·         New Members 1

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                  .

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21517 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  Jacob:
                  You were dead on. It is exactly like the photos, etc., of the
                  Bowser/Knapp brass boiler Mountain. Except the photos I found all
                  had box pox drivers and mine are spoked drivers. I wonder if that
                  makes mine even earlier? I also discovered a small photo of the
                  Bowser, "Super Motor," and while I have not yet pulled the boiler off
                  mine, this motor, (from looking at the bottom) does appear quite
                  different. Were Super Motors still 12 volt?

                  Dennis

                  At 10:11 PM 10/13/2013, you wrote:
                  >Dear Dennis,
                  > Sounds greatly like the Bowser of Redlands mountain with the
                  >Varney cast aluminum tender. Check out the drawings on HOseeker.
                  >
                  >Jacob Bechtel
                  >
                  >On 10/13/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  > > Attended the Spokane, WA., Train Show today. An older gentleman was
                  > > there selling his father's old, "trains." (Seller was never, "into,"
                  > > trains) I picked up a 4-8-2 after trying in vain to figure out what
                  > > manufacture it was. The Vandy tender was easy, as it has Varney cast
                  > > into the underframe.

                  snip
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21518 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  Dear Dennis,
                  The "Super Motor" was indeed 12 volt, however the preway Knapp was
                  6 volt. At one time there was a conversion for the Bowser/Knapp to a
                  DC71 Pittman. I believe that the later Bowser of PA design used a
                  diecast frame and the Pittman motor.
                  The earliest Bowser used some left over spoked drivers from the
                  Knapp model which Bill Bowser bought, but he was unable to docate the
                  dies so he began turning drivers on his lathe and then drill holes in
                  them to create the boxpox that is more common. The first Bowser
                  motors used the Knapp design upgraded to 12 volt, later Bill Bowser
                  reworked the motor to make it more reliable and called it the "Super
                  Motor". My Knapp model has the 6 volt and it still runs well after 75
                  years.
                  The Knapp casting were not as clean as the Bowser and were sold as
                  both kit and RTR. The Knapp came with a semi-USRA type coal tender of
                  cast bronze with Knapp's own dummy knuckler. My Knapp has file marks
                  on the boiler and is factory chemically blackened.
                  I disassembled and photographed mine when I got it. I'll try to
                  locate those photos and the early Bowser diagrams and email them to
                  you.
                  If you need to remotor yours, I suggest the Pittman motor since it
                  is relatively available and quite reliable with enough power to handle
                  those heavy castings.
                  If your frame has what appears to be a script signature near the
                  back end, it is the Knapp frame. The Knapp master was signed by the
                  machinist who made the molds.

                  Jacob



                  On 10/14/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jacob:
                  > You were dead on. It is exactly like the photos, etc., of the
                  > Bowser/Knapp brass boiler Mountain. Except the photos I found all
                  > had box pox drivers and mine are spoked drivers. I wonder if that
                  > makes mine even earlier? I also discovered a small photo of the
                  > Bowser, "Super Motor," and while I have not yet pulled the boiler off
                  > mine, this motor, (from looking at the bottom) does appear quite
                  > different. Were Super Motors still 12 volt?
                  >
                  > Dennis
                  >
                  > At 10:11 PM 10/13/2013, you wrote:
                  >>Dear Dennis,
                  >> Sounds greatly like the Bowser of Redlands mountain with the
                  >>Varney cast aluminum tender. Check out the drawings on HOseeker.
                  >>
                  >>Jacob Bechtel
                  >>
                  >>On 10/13/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  >> > Attended the Spokane, WA., Train Show today. An older gentleman was
                  >> > there selling his father's old, "trains." (Seller was never, "into,"
                  >> > trains) I picked up a 4-8-2 after trying in vain to figure out what
                  >> > manufacture it was. The Vandy tender was easy, as it has Varney cast
                  >> > into the underframe.
                  >
                  > snip
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21519 From: Dennis Thompson Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  Jacob:

                  Thank you for your very, very interesting commentary. I just love
                  digging into this kind of thing. When I got interested in HO about
                  1955, I read everything I could lay my hands on, but had no hobby
                  shops nearby or other model railroaders, (we lived in a remote
                  area). Plus I couldn't afford much as a kid. Hence: Mantua Shifter
                  and Varney Casey Jones - all mail order done by guessing and saving
                  my allowance. Took a very long time. Now I enjoy coming across a
                  few of those mysterious/exotic models that were only hazy visions in
                  my youth.

                  First, I guess I could try this engine on 6V and see what
                  happens. (Except I have no rheostat controlled 6V source) Otherwise
                  I'm not sure how to tell the difference. I like my spoked drivers
                  and am glad to have them on the model. Since you mentioned yours is
                  chemically blackened, I now wonder if that is exactly what mine
                  is. It is semi-glass and looks very even. It's held up very well if
                  it's original finish. These GN decals could have been applied later.

                  At the moment I doubt I'd re-motor it as I don't think I want to
                  change anything. Regarding this Varney tender, I need one for
                  something else here, but now I'd sure like to find the correct tender
                  for this. I suppose THAT will be a real headache!

                  You mentioned, "...script signature near the back end." How very
                  interesting. Initially I see nothing on mine, but I wonder if I'm
                  looking at the right place or how prominently it shows up?

                  Lastly, yes, I'd love to see your photos.

                  Thank you,
                  Dennis

                  At 08:43 AM 10/14/2013, you wrote:
                  >Dear Dennis,
                  > The "Super Motor" was indeed 12 volt, however the preway Knapp was
                  >6 volt. At one time there was a conversion for the Bowser/Knapp to a
                  >DC71 Pittman. I believe that the later Bowser of PA design used a
                  >diecast frame and the Pittman motor.
                  > The earliest Bowser used some left over spoked drivers from the
                  >Knapp model which Bill Bowser bought, but he was unable to docate the
                  >dies so he began turning drivers on his lathe and then drill holes in
                  >them to create the boxpox that is more common. The first Bowser
                  >motors used the Knapp design upgraded to 12 volt, later Bill Bowser
                  >reworked the motor to make it more reliable and called it the "Super
                  >Motor". My Knapp model has the 6 volt and it still runs well after 75
                  >years.
                  > The Knapp casting were not as clean as the Bowser and were sold as
                  >both kit and RTR. The Knapp came with a semi-USRA type coal tender of
                  >cast bronze with Knapp's own dummy knuckler. My Knapp has file marks
                  >on the boiler and is factory chemically blackened.
                  > I disassembled and photographed mine when I got it. I'll try to
                  >locate those photos and the early Bowser diagrams and email them to
                  >you.
                  > If you need to remotor yours, I suggest the Pittman motor since it
                  >is relatively available and quite reliable with enough power to handle
                  >those heavy castings.
                  > If your frame has what appears to be a script signature near the
                  >back end, it is the Knapp frame. The Knapp master was signed by the
                  >machinist who made the molds.
                  >
                  >Jacob
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >On 10/14/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jacob:
                  > > You were dead on. It is exactly like the photos, etc., of the
                  > > Bowser/Knapp brass boiler Mountain.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21520 From: Stephen Neubaum Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  The script signature is not very noticable. It took me a while to figure out what it was on mine. I'm not at home right now, otherwise I would say where the signature is.

                  My Knapp has spoked drivers too, but I am not sure they are original, as a previous owner had also replaced the pilot with a Varney casting. The drive rods on mine were also build out of brass rod with holes drilled in the appropriate place.

                  Mine runs somewhat slow, but I think it is due to weak motor magnets.

                  You aren't missing much with the original tender. A Varney  USRA-style tender (That goes behind the Casey Jones and Old Lady engines) would be close, and probably work better.

                  -Steve Neubaum





                  From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:07 AM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Something new at train show today: Varney?

                   
                  Jacob:

                  Thank you for your very, very interesting commentary. I just love
                  digging into this kind of thing. When I got interested in HO about
                  1955, I read everything I could lay my hands on, but had no hobby
                  shops nearby or other model railroaders, (we lived in a remote
                  area). Plus I couldn't afford much as a kid. Hence: Mantua Shifter
                  and Varney Casey Jones - all mail order done by guessing and saving
                  my allowance. Took a very long time. Now I enjoy coming across a
                  few of those mysterious/exotic models that were only hazy visions in
                  my youth.

                  First, I guess I could try this engine on 6V and see what
                  happens. (Except I have no rheostat controlled 6V source) Otherwise
                  I'm not sure how to tell the difference. I like my spoked drivers
                  and am glad to have them on the model. Since you mentioned yours is
                  chemically blackened, I now wonder if that is exactly what mine
                  is. It is semi-glass and looks very even. It's held up very well if
                  it's original finish. These GN decals could have been applied later.

                  At the moment I doubt I'd re-motor it as I don't think I want to
                  change anything. Regarding this Varney tender, I need one for
                  something else here, but now I'd sure like to find the correct tender
                  for this. I suppose THAT will be a real headache!

                  You mentioned, "...script signature near the back end." How very
                  interesting. Initially I see nothing on mine, but I wonder if I'm
                  looking at the right place or how prominently it shows up?

                  Lastly, yes, I'd love to see your photos.

                  Thank you,
                  Dennis

                  At 08:43 AM 10/14/2013, you wrote:
                  >Dear Dennis,
                  > The "Super Motor" was indeed 12 volt, however the preway Knapp was
                  >6 volt. At one time there was a conversion for the Bowser/Knapp to a
                  >DC71 Pittman. I believe that the later Bowser of PA design used a
                  >diecast frame and the Pittman motor.
                  > The earliest Bowser used some left over spoked drivers from the
                  >Knapp model which Bill Bowser bought, but he was unable to docate the
                  >dies so he began turning drivers on his lathe and then drill holes in
                  >them to create the boxpox that is more common. The first Bowser
                  >motors used the Knapp design upgraded to 12 volt, later Bill Bowser
                  >reworked the motor to make it more reliable and called it the "Super
                  >Motor". My Knapp model has the 6 volt and it still runs well after 75
                  >years.
                  > The Knapp casting were not as clean as the Bowser and were sold as
                  >both kit and RTR. The Knapp came with a semi-USRA type coal tender of
                  >cast bronze with Knapp's own dummy knuckler. My Knapp has file marks
                  >on the boiler and is factory chemically blackened.
                  > I disassembled and photographed mine when I got it. I'll try to
                  >locate those photos and the early Bowser diagrams and email them to
                  >you.
                  > If you need to remotor yours, I suggest the Pittman motor since it
                  >is relatively available and quite reliable with enough power to handle
                  >those heavy castings.
                  > If your frame has what appears to be a script signature near the
                  >back end, it is the Knapp frame. The Knapp master was signed by the
                  >machinist who made the molds.
                  >
                  >Jacob
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >On 10/14/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jacob:
                  > > You were dead on. It is exactly like the photos, etc., of the
                  > > Bowser/Knapp brass boiler Mountain.



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21521 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  Hi John & Group,

                  I think John is correct in putting resin kits in a different category. I
                  have a few resin kits and really do not prefer them. I told John Canfield
                  that I preferred wood so I get the decals from him and scratch build the
                  cars although I have several if his resin kits. I have completed 993 HO
                  cars, not counting locomotives. Of the 993, 142 are scratch built (14%).
                  I have quite a few cars I am working on and about 60 to 70 percent are
                  being scratch built. Over 50% of my building, bridges, and accessories
                  are scratch built. In the future, about 98% will be scratch built. I do
                  consider some of the more difficult kits as craftsman. That includes
                  Ambroid, LaBelle, and the old wood Con Cor models. There may be other
                  kits that are craftsman kits. Most kits from the 50 to the 70 were not
                  really craftsman kits although they did require some knowledge and
                  expertise in building them. I have some pictures of my cars and building
                  on the Anthracite and Early Rail groups.

                  I suppose we could argue all day about what is a craftsman kit or should
                  be strictly scratch built. Model Railroading is a hobby where you are
                  the boss and what is do as far as your models is yours. We can all enjoy
                  what others do regardless of the prototypical cars, engines and buildings.
                  It may not be the way we do it, but we have our own ideas.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Joel and group,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Interesting area of discussion. Are resin kits craftsman kits? Kinda
                  > depends
                  > on one's personal view point.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Do they require the amount and type of effort to assemble? Oh yes they do.
                  > Are they the good old wood and metals kits from our past? No. The types of
                  > skills, although certainly just as necessary, is somewhat different. Many,
                  > myself included, will want to put resin kits in a different
                  > classification,
                  > whether or not that is in truth the case.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I personally like to mess around with die cast locomotives and cars (ala
                  > Ulrich). I also would really like to do more of the old style Ambroid and
                  > Silver Streak kits, if I had the time to do so. But alas over the years I
                  > did most of my bashing a detailing work in plastic. And I have several
                  > project awaiting my attentions right now. Likely more than my 70 years of
                  > age will allow. So, although I would LIKE to attempt some resin kit
                  > building, I doubt I will get to do any.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > But to answer the question of craftsman or not, they are craftsman in
                  > actual
                  > practice but not in the classical sense.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hope this non-answer helps confuse everyone. It did me.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf
                  > Of Joel Holmes
                  > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:07 AM
                  > To: Vintage HO Group
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi John,
                  >
                  > I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  > as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  > That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.
                  >
                  > Joel Holmes
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21522 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Something new at train show today: Varney?
                  I own an original Knapp mountain.  It has been mine since 1947.  My father bought a prewar (II) HO layout.   It run great, but was re-motored a few year ago, magnet was bad on the original motor and I like to run the engine (my first HO engine).

                  If needed I can get some pictures, next week. and make the available for viewing.

                  I still use a small section from that layout, with the original Midlan brass track, in my current layout.

                  Garry Spear




                  On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:
                   

                  The script signature is not very noticable. It took me a while to figure out what it was on mine. I'm not at home right now, otherwise I would say where the signature is.

                  My Knapp has spoked drivers too, but I am not sure they are original, as a previous owner had also replaced the pilot with a Varney casting. The drive rods on mine were also build out of brass rod with holes drilled in the appropriate place.

                  Mine runs somewhat slow, but I think it is due to weak motor magnets.

                  You aren't missing much with the original tender. A Varney  USRA-style tender (That goes behind the Casey Jones and Old Lady engines) would be close, and probably work better.

                  -Steve Neubaum





                  From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:07 AM
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Something new at train show today: Varney?

                   
                  Jacob:

                  Thank you for your very, very interesting commentary. I just love
                  digging into this kind of thing. When I got interested in HO about
                  1955, I read everything I could lay my hands on, but had no hobby
                  shops nearby or other model railroaders, (we lived in a remote
                  area). Plus I couldn't afford much as a kid. Hence: Mantua Shifter
                  and Varney Casey Jones - all mail order done by guessing and saving
                  my allowance. Took a very long time. Now I enjoy coming across a
                  few of those mysterious/exotic models that were only hazy visions in
                  my youth.

                  First, I guess I could try this engine on 6V and see what
                  happens. (Except I have no rheostat controlled 6V source) Otherwise
                  I'm not sure how to tell the difference. I like my spoked drivers
                  and am glad to have them on the model. Since you mentioned yours is
                  chemically blackened, I now wonder if that is exactly what mine
                  is. It is semi-glass and looks very even. It's held up very well if
                  it's original finish. These GN decals could have been applied later.

                  At the moment I doubt I'd re-motor it as I don't think I want to
                  change anything. Regarding this Varney tender, I need one for
                  something else here, but now I'd sure like to find the correct tender
                  for this. I suppose THAT will be a real headache!

                  You mentioned, "...script signature near the back end." How very
                  interesting. Initially I see nothing on mine, but I wonder if I'm
                  looking at the right place or how prominently it shows up?

                  Lastly, yes, I'd love to see your photos.

                  Thank you,
                  Dennis

                  At 08:43 AM 10/14/2013, you wrote:
                  >Dear Dennis,
                  > The "Super Motor" was indeed 12 volt, however the preway Knapp was
                  >6 volt. At one time there was a conversion for the Bowser/Knapp to a
                  >DC71 Pittman. I believe that the later Bowser of PA design used a
                  >diecast frame and the Pittman motor.
                  > The earliest Bowser used some left over spoked drivers from the
                  >Knapp model which Bill Bowser bought, but he was unable to docate the
                  >dies so he began turning drivers on his lathe and then drill holes in
                  >them to create the boxpox that is more common. The first Bowser
                  >motors used the Knapp design upgraded to 12 volt, later Bill Bowser
                  >reworked the motor to make it more reliable and called it the "Super
                  >Motor". My Knapp model has the 6 volt and it still runs well after 75
                  >years.
                  > The Knapp casting were not as clean as the Bowser and were sold as
                  >both kit and RTR. The Knapp came with a semi-USRA type coal tender of
                  >cast bronze with Knapp's own dummy knuckler. My Knapp has file marks
                  >on the boiler and is factory chemically blackened.
                  > I disassembled and photographed mine when I got it. I'll try to
                  >locate those photos and the early Bowser diagrams and email them to
                  >you.
                  > If you need to remotor yours, I suggest the Pittman motor since it
                  >is relatively available and quite reliable with enough power to handle
                  >those heavy castings.
                  > If your frame has what appears to be a script signature near the
                  >back end, it is the Knapp frame. The Knapp master was signed by the
                  >machinist who made the molds.
                  >
                  >Jacob
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >On 10/14/13, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jacob:
                  > > You were dead on. It is exactly like the photos, etc., of the
                  > > Bowser/Knapp brass boiler Mountain.




                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21523 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  OK, guys, I too have built a couple of hundred older and wooden or metal kits that require considerable craftsman skills. I also have built the top-o-the line resin types. I don't particularly like resin either because of the fact that the surface is so easily marred, and the tiny pieces are so fragile (and sometimes incorrectly formed) that it makes them impractical to handle or use in many instances. HOWEVER, just try to build one o' them thar resin types correctly without at least some of those good ol' craftsman skills. You gotta be a craftsman in either case. There are many common skills involved and surprisingly more than you might think--especially if the resin types don't cooperate.
                   
                  Art W
                   
                   
                   
                  In a message dated 10/14/2013 2:40:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lehighvalley@... writes:
                  Hi John & Group,

                  I think John is correct in putting resin kits in a different category.  I
                  have a few resin kits and really do not prefer them.  I told John Canfield
                  that I preferred wood so I get the decals from him and scratch build the
                  cars although I have several if his resin kits.  I have completed 993 HO
                  cars, not counting locomotives.  Of the 993, 142 are scratch built (14%).
                  I have quite a few cars I am working on and about 60 to 70 percent are
                  being scratch built.  Over 50% of my building, bridges, and accessories
                  are scratch built.  In the future, about 98% will be scratch built.  I do
                  consider some of the more difficult kits as craftsman.  That includes
                  Ambroid, LaBelle, and the old wood Con Cor models.  There may be other
                  kits that are craftsman kits.  Most kits from the 50 to the 70 were not
                  really craftsman kits although they did require some knowledge and
                  expertise in building them.  I have some pictures of my cars and building
                  on the Anthracite and Early Rail groups.

                  I suppose we could argue all day about what is a craftsman kit or should
                  be strictly scratch built.   Model Railroading is a hobby where you are
                  the boss and what is do as far as your models is yours.  We can all enjoy
                  what others do regardless of the prototypical cars, engines and buildings.
                  It may not be the way we do it, but we have our own ideas.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Joel and group,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Interesting area of discussion. Are resin kits craftsman kits? Kinda
                  > depends
                  > on one's personal view point.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Do they require the amount and type of effort to assemble? Oh yes they do.
                  > Are they the good old wood and metals kits from our past? No. The types of
                  > skills, although certainly just as necessary, is somewhat different. Many,
                  > myself included, will want to  put resin kits in a different
                  > classification,
                  > whether or not that is in truth the case.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I personally like to mess around with die cast locomotives and cars (ala
                  > Ulrich). I also would really like to do more of the old style Ambroid and
                  > Silver Streak kits, if I had the time to do so. But alas over the years I
                  > did most of my bashing a detailing work in plastic. And I have several
                  > project awaiting my attentions right now. Likely more than my 70 years of
                  > age will allow. So, although I would LIKE to attempt some resin kit
                  > building, I doubt I will get to do any.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > But to answer the question of craftsman or not, they are craftsman in
                  > actual
                  > practice but not in the classical sense.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hope this non-answer helps confuse everyone. It did me.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf
                  > Of Joel Holmes
                  > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:07 AM
                  > To: Vintage HO Group
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi John,
                  >
                  > I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  > as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  > That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.
                  >
                  > Joel Holmes




                  ------------------------------------

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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21524 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  I definitely agree with Art.  Building resin kits properly does require craftsman skills.  Most resin kits also require you to make or modify parts to get the correct details and the instructions are not usually very detailed on this.  But, Ambroid and Quality Craft kits are really the same when it comes to these details.  Some resin kits do have more detail than others, but just about all require careful handling to not break the details on them.  However, I do love my round roof B&O boxcar and covered hopper.  They are very unique and get lots of comments.
                  I just recently visited Howard Zane's layout and was admiring a string of covered hoppers.  When I mentioned it to one of the "minions", he told me that all were built from wood kits, either Ambroid or Quality Craft.  Howard has been know to go on a tear and build as many as 600 kits in a 3 month period over the summer.   That sounds pretty amazing to me, but quite honestly, I saw a bunch of craftsman kits on that layout.  Too many to count.  By the way, yes he also built resin cars as well.
                  Regards,
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: luvprr@...
                  Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:19:22 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                  OK, guys, I too have built a couple of hundred older and wooden or metal kits that require considerable craftsman skills. I also have built the top-o-the line resin types. I don't particularly like resin either because of the fact that the surface is so easily marred, and the tiny pieces are so fragile (and sometimes incorrectly formed) that it makes them impractical to handle or use in many instances. HOWEVER, just try to build one o' them thar resin types correctly without at least some of those good ol' craftsman skills. You gotta be a craftsman in either case. There are many common skills involved and surprisingly more than you might think--especially if the resin types don't cooperate.
                   
                  Art W
                   
                   
                   
                  In a message dated 10/14/2013 2:40:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lehighvalley@... writes:
                  Hi John & Group,

                  I think John is correct in putting resin kits in a different category.  I
                  have a few resin kits and really do not prefer them.  I told John Canfield
                  that I preferred wood so I get the decals from him and scratch build the
                  cars although I have several if his resin kits.  I have completed 993 HO
                  cars, not counting locomotives.  Of the 993, 142 are scratch built (14%).
                  I have quite a few cars I am working on and about 60 to 70 percent are
                  being scratch built.  Over 50% of my building, bridges, and accessories
                  are scratch built.  In the future, about 98% will be scratch built.  I do
                  consider some of the more difficult kits as craftsman.  That includes
                  Ambroid, LaBelle, and the old wood Con Cor models.  There may be other
                  kits that are craftsman kits.  Most kits from the 50 to the 70 were not
                  really craftsman kits although they did require some knowledge and
                  expertise in building them.  I have some pictures of my cars and building
                  on the Anthracite and Early Rail groups.

                  I suppose we could argue all day about what is a craftsman kit or should
                  be strictly scratch built.   Model Railroading is a hobby where you are
                  the boss and what is do as far as your models is yours.  We can all enjoy
                  what others do regardless of the prototypical cars, engines and buildings.
                  It may not be the way we do it, but we have our own ideas.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Joel and group,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Interesting area of discussion. Are resin kits craftsman kits? Kinda
                  > depends
                  > on one's personal view point.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Do they require the amount and type of effort to assemble? Oh yes they do.
                  > Are they the good old wood and metals kits from our past? No. The types of
                  > skills, although certainly just as necessary, is somewhat different. Many,
                  > myself included, will want to  put resin kits in a different
                  > classification,
                  > whether or not that is in truth the case.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I personally like to mess around with die cast locomotives and cars (ala
                  > Ulrich). I also would really like to do more of the old style Ambroid and
                  > Silver Streak kits, if I had the time to do so. But alas over the years I
                  > did most of my bashing a detailing work in plastic. And I have several
                  > project awaiting my attentions right now. Likely more than my 70 years of
                  > age will allow. So, although I would LIKE to attempt some resin kit
                  > building, I doubt I will get to do any.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > But to answer the question of craftsman or not, they are craftsman in
                  > actual
                  > practice but not in the classical sense.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hope this non-answer helps confuse everyone. It did me.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > John Hagen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf
                  > Of Joel Holmes
                  > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:07 AM
                  > To: Vintage HO Group
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi John,
                  >
                  > I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  > as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  > That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.
                  >
                  > Joel Holmes




                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional

                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)

                  <*> To change settings via email:
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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21525 From: larry Smith Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  A warning about the early resin kits.  If the kit is of the very dark gray resin, you don't want it.  The resin was very brittle and even trying to drill for grab irons, they would shatter.  Ask me how I know.

                  Larry Smith

                  On 10/14/2013 9:07 AM, Joel Holmes wrote:
                   

                  Hi John,

                  I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > There is absolutely no shortage of resin kits.  But if  by "kits" you
                  > mean well-designed wood/metal kits of the Northeastern/Ambroid or LaBelle
                  > sort, you're right.  But the resin kits are every bit as challenging as
                  > anything made in the past and are much more detailed. 
                  >
                  >
                  > John B. Allyn
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
                  > To: "Vintage HO Group" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29:24 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Mike.
                  >
                  > I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  > are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  > takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  > hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  > locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  > exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  > craftsmanship to build.
                  >
                  > Joel Holmes
                  >
                  >> Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.
                  >>
                  >> It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping
                  >> and
                  >> modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.
                  >>
                  >> These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make
                  >> almost no kits in our hobby.
                  >>
                  >> You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge
                  >> amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay
                  >> and
                  >> swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.
                  >>
                  >> Mike Bauers
                  >> Sent from my iPhone
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills)
                  >>> on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a
                  >>> Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one.
                  >>> Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make
                  >>> the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who
                  >>> build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR
                  >>> locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >>>
                  >>> Brad Smith
                  >>> Franklin, WI
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> -----------------------------------
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >







                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21526 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Resin Kits
                  I do agree with Larry on this if you have never built a resin kit, don't start with these.  These are usually the OLDER Westerfield kits and the resin has a powdered metal filling.  I am not sure why they thought this was good?  They still build up nice and I have built one without any major issues.  I did have a tiny bit of effort in drilling the hand grab holes and it is easy to break a bit.  But, the broken bit drills easier anyway.  I used a pin vise, so maybe using a Dremel could cause the shatter.  I did not drop any parts, so did not shatter any.  I did break a few, because they were fragile.  But, they were easily glued back with CA.  Also, I did not drop the car and it is still very nice and runs on the layout.  I do have several more and will build them as I go along.  Just like most other kits the more you work with them the better it goes.  That Westerfield boxcar was my first resin kit and I guess I was lucky.
                  If you do want to try resin kits, I suggest you try one of the newer "one piece" Funaro Camerlengo kits.  You do not have to glue up a box and these one piece kits just have you add the ends and a floor.  Some come with the ends already together.  Maybe one of the flat car kits would be good.  Also the newer kits come with a much nicer resin.  Many Sunshine kits also came with "one piece" bodies, such as the gondolas.  When you get proficient with these, you can then graduate to the "flat" kits.   These have 6 pieces for the bodies.  There are 2 sides, 2 ends, a roof and a floor.  They are a bit trickier to put together, but make up into some very nice cars.  Most of my builds were "flat" kits until I found out about the "one piece" kits.  :o)
                  Regards,
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: wooddale@...
                  Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:54:27 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                  A warning about the early resin kits.  If the kit is of the very dark gray resin, you don't want it.  The resin was very brittle and even trying to drill for grab irons, they would shatter.  Ask me how I know.

                  Larry Smith

                  On 10/14/2013 9:07 AM, Joel Holmes wrote:
                   
                  Hi John,

                  I understand there is no shortage of resin kits. I do not consider these
                  as craftsman kits. Yes, they need more work as compared to plastic kits.
                  That, in my mind, does not make them craftsman kits.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > There is absolutely no shortage of resin kits.  But if  by "kits" you
                  > mean well-designed wood/metal kits of the Northeastern/Ambroid or LaBelle
                  > sort, you're right.  But the resin kits are every bit as challenging as
                  > anything made in the past and are much more detailed. 
                  >
                  >
                  > John B. Allyn
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
                  > To: "Vintage HO Group" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:29:24 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Mike.
                  >
                  > I think you are absolutely correct. Even the cars kits being make today
                  > are plastic and they take little time and craftsmanship to construct. It
                  > takes me between 2 and 4 hours to scratch build a freight car and 6 to 20
                  > hours to build a highly detailed passenger car. I can only find old time
                  > locomotive kits or wrecks to be restored on E-Bay. There are a few
                  > exceptions to the cars kits such as LaBelle which are wood and need some
                  > craftsmanship to build.
                  >
                  > Joel Holmes
                  >
                  >> Those steamers are common in eBay and at swap meets.
                  >>
                  >> It is hard to find a kit. But you'll feel more comfortable in shopping
                  >> and
                  >> modding a used or un-used pre-owned model.
                  >>
                  >> These days a model railroader can't build kits mostly because they make
                  >> almost no kits in our hobby.
                  >>
                  >> You need to be in any other kind of model building to still have a huge
                  >> amount and variety of kits available to build........ Outside of eBay
                  >> and
                  >> swap meets, or the domestic Japanese model RR market.
                  >>
                  >> Mike Bauers
                  >> Sent from my iPhone
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "Sherrie" <corlissbs@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills)
                  >>> on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a
                  >>> Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one.
                  >>> Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make
                  >>> the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who
                  >>> build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR
                  >>> locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.
                  >>>
                  >>> Brad Smith
                  >>> Franklin, WI
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> -----------------------------------
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >









                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21527 From: David Emery Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: 19th century 'makes good' at MER Convention
                  Attachments :
                  The winners in Freight Cars and Passenger Cars were both O Scale 19th century models.
                  The passenger car is a 'double antique', it's actually built from -cast aluminum- car sides produced in the 1920s by E.P. Alexander.
                    @@attachment@@
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21528 From: albyrno Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: varney docksider with tender
                  Did this tender come with loco the screws in tender side are not shown on switcher tender  on hoseeker site.
                  131018023441
                  eBay item number:
                  Alan
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21529 From: John Hagen Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: varney docksider with tender

                  That is an early Mantua tender such as used on the early 0-4-0 Goats and Mighty Mites. The Varney “Dockside” (little Joe or whatever) never came with a tender.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of albyrno@...
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 8:37 PM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [vintageHO] varney docksider with tender

                   

                   

                  Did this tender come with loco the screws in tender side are not shown on switcher tender  on hoseeker site.
                  131018023441

                  eBay item number:

                  Alan

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21530 From: Brad Smith Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: varney docksider with tender
                  Strangely enough the Marx side tank engine came with or without tender!

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin WI

                  Sent from Brad's iPod

                  On Oct 14, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                   

                  That is an early Mantua tender such as used on the early 0-4-0 Goats and Mighty Mites. The Varney “Dockside” (little Joe or whatever) never came with a tender.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of albyrno@...
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 8:37 PM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [vintageHO] varney docksider with tender

                   

                   

                  Did this tender come with loco the screws in tender side are not shown on switcher tender  on hoseeker site.
                  131018023441

                  eBay item number:

                  Alan

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21531 From: larry Smith Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Larry Smith
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21532 From: John Barlow Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  Marry (Smith),
                   
                  What is your email address? I have an interest with list unseen...The Ambroid 1 of 5,000 "U.S. Navy Helium Tank Car." Can I obtain you list?
                   
                  John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...)


                  On Monday, October 14, 2013 8:25 PM, larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote:
                   
                  Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Larry Smith



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21533 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  On 10/14/2013 8:54 PM, larry Smith wrote:
                  > Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  > HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  > sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  > let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  > soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Mmmm, so tempting. I love those old Central Valley kits, especially
                  if they still have the trucks included. Unfortunately the going price on
                  eBay seems to be $30+ last time I checked and that's just too pricey for
                  my taste. I imagine your LHS will probably follow similar pricing.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
                  it.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21534 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/14/2013
                  Subject: Re: varney docksider with tender
                  Alan, et. al.

                  Quick answer, YES. 

                  The tender is a Mantua tender from the late 30's or 40's.  I have two of these tenders.  One is assembled with a Mantua, Reading 0-4-0 goat, locomotive.  The second is in an unassembled kit.

                  Garrett (Garry) Spear


                  On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:36 PM, <albyrno@...> wrote:
                   

                  Did this tender come with loco the screws in tender side are not shown on switcher tender  on hoseeker site.
                  131018023441
                  eBay item number:
                  Alan


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21535 From: Geo Stahlberg Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  According to MR, Bowser is scapping the molds...
                  George

                  From: Sherrie <corlissbs@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:09 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                   
                  The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills) on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one. Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin, WI

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21536 From: Brad Smith Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  What a shame!  Some of the best running steamers ever made. 

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin, WI

                  Sent from Brad's iPod

                  On Oct 15, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote:

                   

                  According to MR, Bowser is scapping the molds...
                  George

                  From: Sherrie <corlissbs@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:09 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                   
                  The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills) on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one. Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin, WI

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21537 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  Hi Rick,
                  I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley kits.  They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than Silver Streak kits.  I have a couple and will put then on the railroad, but truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal.  The last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for the trucks.  The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the passenger trucks.  I do not lament their passing too much, (except the passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer.  If you want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to go.  These are and have always been very nice kits.  LaBelle also builds up to some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish to update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: r.t.jones@...
                  Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:03:27 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   
                  On 10/14/2013 8:54 PM, larry Smith wrote:
                  > Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  > HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  > sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  > let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  > soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Mmmm, so tempting. I love those old Central Valley kits, especially
                  if they still have the trucks included. Unfortunately the going price on
                  eBay seems to be $30+ last time I checked and that's just too pricey for
                  my taste. I imagine your LHS will probably follow similar pricing.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
                  it.

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21538 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  Let me know how much for the outside braced/single sided wood boxcars (not the 1 1/2 door UP or the reefers) and shipping.  I may be interested depending on what there is.
                  Thanks and regards,
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: wooddale@...
                  Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:54:58 -0500
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   
                  Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Larry Smith


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21539 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  Hi Vic and Group,

                  I have built Ambroid, Central Valley, Sliver Streak, and many other wood
                  and wood/metal kits. I also have a bunch of LaBelle kit to build. I agree
                  that the CV passenger trucks are very good and I think I must have more
                  than 50 of them. For freight trucks I am getting Kadee and Bitter Creek
                  trucks. Some of the Bitter Creek and Bethlehem passenger trucks are also
                  very good. I also wonder about updating the "clunky" parts and how that
                  would effect the vintage of the cars? Can anyone share some ideas about
                  this aspect with us.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Hi Rick,I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley
                  > kits. They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than
                  > Silver Streak kits. I have a couple and will put then on the railroad,
                  > but truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal. The
                  > last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for
                  > the trucks. The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the
                  > passenger trucks. I do not lament their passing too much, (except the
                  > passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer. If you
                  > want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to go.
                  > These are and have always been very nice kits. LaBelle also builds up to
                  > some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish to
                  > update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.
                  > Vic Bitleris
                  > Raleigh, NC
                  >
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: r.t.jones@...
                  > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:03:27 -0500
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21540 From: trainliker Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  I assume you mean the passing of the car kits and trucks, not the company.  It is alive and well in Oceano, California making exquisite plastic molded model railroad items.  I just visited it Saturday as part of the Central Coast Railroad Festival.  They had an open house there where they also have a beautiful model railroad built by Jack Parker (now deceased) who had acquired Central Valley Model Works in the 1950's.  I asked them how many times a year they got requests to make trucks again and was told "about 500".
                   
                  Chuck Kinzer
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:05 AM
                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   

                  Hi Rick,
                  I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley kits.  They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than Silver Streak kits.  I have a couple and will put then on the railroad, but truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal.  The last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for the trucks.  The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the passenger trucks.  I do not lament their passing too much, (except the passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer.  If you want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to go.  These are and have always been very nice kits.  LaBelle also builds up to some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish to update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: r.t.jones@...
                  Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:03:27 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   
                  On 10/14/2013 8:54 PM, larry Smith wrote:
                  > Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  > HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  > sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  > let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  > soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Mmmm, so tempting. I love those old Central Valley kits, especially
                  if they still have the trucks included. Unfortunately the going price on
                  eBay seems to be $30+ last time I checked and that's just too pricey for
                  my taste. I imagine your LHS will probably follow similar pricing.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
                  it.

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21541 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  I would like to see a list.

                  Thanks,

                  Dick Waite
                  Topsfield, MA
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21542 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  I think you'd get a argument about that. I've built the entire line of Bowser steam kits and various versions---all with every available detail----and they varied quite a bit in performance (even after long break-ins and tinkering). It's too bad they couldn't have converted to can style motors sooner. Their final 0-6-0 with the included can was/is a nice runner though. And I did a K4 with all details (including some of my own) with a can type motor as a replacement for the standard open frame, and it runs beautifully and quietly. Years ago I sold a similar one with flickering lights in the firebox for over $600 on eBay. Can't do that anymore. In any case I do appreciate the heftiness when I run those dinosaurs on my layout.
                   
                  Art W
                   
                  In a message dated 10/15/2013 8:39:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, corlissbs@... writes:


                  What a shame!  Some of the best running steamers ever made. 

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin, WI

                  Sent from Brad's iPod

                  On Oct 15, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote:

                   

                  According to MR, Bowser is scapping the molds...
                  George

                  From: Sherrie <corlissbs@...>
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:09 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam
                   
                  The October Railroad Model Craftsman has a great article (Keith Wills) on Varney/Bowser steam locomotives. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a Varney Casey Jones or Old Lady. Bowser improved them and I wanted one. Now when I visit the Bowser web site, I learn that they no longer make the steam locos. I am too late. Are there really that few guys who build kits anymore? That few Pensy steam fans, as Bowser had the PRR locos. I guess the Bachmann, etc. steamers reduced sales of the kits.

                  Brad Smith
                  Franklin, WI

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21543 From: John Hagen Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars

                  Joel,

                   

                  I think that depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are building historic model trains then leave the original stuff as is. If you are building accurate models of the prototype, then use the most prototypical parts you can. SFAIK Vic does his as prototypically as possible ergo the up-grade in  the details.

                   

                  I’ve got some steam projects including a GB&W 0-6-0 (been sitting for a couple of years) using a much modified Mantua drive and a reworked MDC upper that is attuned to be an accurate representation of the GBW #145, albeit I can’t say that the dimensions will be within any extreme limits. While the drive will be quite accurate regarding driver size, spacing and wheelbase (that is the biggest single part of the build), the upper will have to settle for being a good and properly detailed/appearing model.

                   

                  On the other hand I have certain models that I will not alter just to keep them as they were produced. Included in that is a first run Mantua Mike that I purchased to replace my very first HO model given to me by mom and dad for Christmas 1949 (maybe even 1948, it was the first year of production of the Mike).  I also have some 2060-K Varney F’s that have the HD twin drive/DC71 motors and spur gears (noisy as hell), a Lindsay NW-2 and a Mantua Shifter, all from my brother and all from the same era as the Mike, These will be finished and painted but will not receive any additional detailing. I have some Mantua Sharks, one of which is an original dual motored piece that may end up with what is left of the original paint or may be stripped. I also have some shells that will be powered with Hobbytown drives and others that will use Mantua’s last can-motored, flywheel equipped eight wheel drive/pick-up drives. Any of the latter that actually reach completion will be painted, hopefully in B&O colors.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Holmes
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:23 AM
                  To: Vintage HO Group
                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   

                   

                  Hi Vic and Group,

                  I have built Ambroid, Central Valley, Sliver Streak, and many other wood
                  and wood/metal kits. I also have a bunch of LaBelle kit to build. I agree
                  that the CV passenger trucks are very good and I think I must have more
                  than 50 of them. For freight trucks I am getting Kadee and Bitter Creek
                  trucks. Some of the Bitter Creek and Bethlehem passenger trucks are also
                  very good. I also wonder about updating the "clunky" parts and how that
                  would effect the vintage of the cars? Can anyone share some ideas about
                  this aspect with us.

                  Joel Holmes


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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21544 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars

                  Oh no, for sure I know the company is still around and I do use the bridge kits as well as the car floors.  I just lament the loss of the passenger trucks as I think to this day they are the best.
                  Regards,
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: ckinzer@...
                  Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 06:34:01 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   

                  I assume you mean the passing of the car kits and trucks, not the company.  It is alive and well in Oceano, California making exquisite plastic molded model railroad items.  I just visited it Saturday as part of the Central Coast Railroad Festival.  They had an open house there where they also have a beautiful model railroad built by Jack Parker (now deceased) who had acquired Central Valley Model Works in the 1950's.  I asked them how many times a year they got requests to make trucks again and was told "about 500".
                   
                  Chuck Kinzer
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:05 AM
                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   

                  Hi Rick,
                  I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley kits.  They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than Silver Streak kits.  I have a couple and will put then on the railroad, but truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal.  The last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for the trucks.  The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the passenger trucks.  I do not lament their passing too much, (except the passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer.  If you want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to go.  These are and have always been very nice kits.  LaBelle also builds up to some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish to update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: r.t.jones@...
                  Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:03:27 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   
                  On 10/14/2013 8:54 PM, larry Smith wrote:
                  > Hey everybody, our LHS has just received from a modeler a lot of vintage
                  > HO. Central Valley freight cars, Ambroid one of 5000 and Walthers metal
                  > sided passenger cars. Anyone want a list of them and the prices please
                  > let me know off list. He is still compiling the lest and I will send as
                  > soon as he gets it done. He also has original SS LTD and Magnasum

                  Mmmm, so tempting. I love those old Central Valley kits, especially
                  if they still have the trucks included. Unfortunately the going price on
                  eBay seems to be $30+ last time I checked and that's just too pricey for
                  my taste. I imagine your LHS will probably follow similar pricing.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
                  it.



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21545 From: shawmut_fan Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars

                  I got a CV ventilated boxcar kit off of E Bay that had been pretty badly cannibalized.  I transformed it into a MOW supply car using CV caboose windows and grab irons and strap steps from a current manufacturer.  I also laid out the grabs etc. to satisfy the requirements of the Safety Appliance Act so that I could use it on my 1940's vintage layout.  Sanded down the roof walk.  Looks quite good except that I made the bad mistake of using the CV dress snap truck mounting -- wobbles badly.

                   

                  I'm like Joel -- I rather enjoy building the old craftsman kits.  At the same time, I do like to upgrade them when modern parts would make the car look better.  I'm not so concerned with historical authenticity -- I'm in this for solely the fun that I have.

                  John B. Allyn


                  From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
                  To: "Vintage HO Group" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:22:40 AM
                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   

                  Hi Vic and Group,

                  I have built Ambroid, Central Valley, Sliver Streak, and many other wood
                  and wood/metal kits. I also have a bunch of LaBelle kit to build. I agree
                  that the CV passenger trucks are very good and I think I must have more
                  than 50 of them. For freight trucks I am getting Kadee and Bitter Creek
                  trucks. Some of the Bitter Creek and Bethlehem passenger trucks are also
                  very good. I also wonder about updating the "clunky" parts and how that
                  would effect the vintage of the cars? Can anyone share some ideas about
                  this aspect with us.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Hi Rick,I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley
                  > kits. They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than
                  > Silver Streak kits. I have a couple and will put then on the railroad,
                  > but truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal. The
                  > last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for
                  > the trucks. The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the
                  > passenger trucks. I do not lament their passing too much, (except the
                  > passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer. If you
                  > want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to go.
                  > These are and have always been very nice kits. LaBelle also builds up to
                  > some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish to
                  > update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.
                  > Vic Bitleris
                  > Raleigh, NC
                  >
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: r.t.jones@...
                  > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:03:27 -0500
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  >
                  >

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21546 From: Brad Smith Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  I would change the motor to can with a flywheel. 

                  Brad smith

                  Sent from Brad's iPod


                   

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21547 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam
                  In most cases that they do have them.
                   
                  In a message dated 10/15/2013 11:44:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, corlissbs@... writes:


                  I would change the motor to can with a flywheel. 

                  Brad smith

                  Sent from Brad's iPod


                   

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21548 From: John Hagen Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam

                  Ah, most cases would, in this case. Mean some of the very latest production. Stuff from the 50’s through the 80’s would most likely not have cans and/or flywheels in my experience.

                   

                  John Hagen

                   

                  From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of luvprr@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 10:50 AM
                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                   

                  In most cases that they do have them.

                   

                  In a message dated 10/15/2013 11:44:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, corlissbs@... writes:




                  I would change the motor to can with a flywheel. 

                  Brad smith


                  Sent from Brad's iPod

                   

                   

                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21549 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars

                  Hi Joel and group, I don't mind sharing my own thoughts.  
                  I have built many Ambroid, Silver Streak, and LaBelle cars exactly per the instructions in the past.  I did that because, that is what came with the cars and I really did not know better.   As I started building more and more "finer" kits, Tichy, Red Caboose, Westerfield, and Funaro, and of course scratch built ones, I expanded my horizons and knowledge.  The old stuff, looked a bit "clunky" and "toy like" in some areas, but not bad enough that I would re-do most of them.  I am not afraid to re-do old cars, heck I even partially disassembled and re-built a scratch built pickle car, because the one I built initially no longer looked good for a lot of different reasons.  After rebuilding, re-painting and decaling, it is a very reasonable copy of the Forman Pickle car.  Now, when I build one of these older craftsman kits, I do not consider the original parts sacred, especially the cars from Main Line models.  :o)  After building a Taurus kit, I definitely decided that thinner grabs and stirrups took the old car kits to a much better level.  I am also not sacred about my motive power, I would much rather have something that looks and runs good rather than it being "original".   Mantua locos really lend themselves to heavy modification.  I don't have any problems at all removing cast on detail and adding lost wax castings if they improve the appearance or make it look like a prototype I am modeling.  On the other hand, my brass Gem A5s looks pretty darn good they way the manufacturer built it, so I would just make sure everything is in place and runs very well.  but, my brass New One 0-6-0 is so poor in detail, that it really needs additional work.  I would not want to show this one the way it came from the factory.
                  Having said that I know there are folks who are of the collector mind set and want a car to be historically pure. There is room for all of us in this hobby.
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: lehighvalley@...
                  Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:22:40 -0500
                  Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars

                   
                  Hi Vic and Group,

                  I have built Ambroid, Central Valley, Sliver Streak, and many other wood
                  and wood/metal kits. I also have a bunch of LaBelle kit to build. I agree
                  that the CV passenger trucks are very good and I think I must have more
                  than 50 of them. For freight trucks I am getting Kadee and Bitter Creek
                  trucks. Some of the Bitter Creek and Bethlehem passenger trucks are also
                  very good. I also wonder about updating the "clunky" parts and how that
                  would effect the vintage of the cars? Can anyone share some ideas about
                  this aspect with us.

                  Joel Holmes

                  > Hi Rick,I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley
                  > kits. They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than
                  > Silver Streak kits. I have a couple and will put then on the railroad,
                  > but truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal. The
                  > last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for
                  > the trucks. The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the
                  > passenger trucks. I do not lament their passing too much, (except the
                  > passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer. If you
                  > want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to go.
                  > These are and have always been very nice kits. LaBelle also builds up to
                  > some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish to
                  > update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.
                  > Vic Bitleris
                  > Raleigh, NC
                  >
                  > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: r.t.jones@...
                  > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 22:03:27 -0500
                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  >
                  >


                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21550 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Bowser Steam

                  I think that depends on if you want to use DCC.  Many DCC Decoders do not play well with flywheels.  Generally this is because they come with "momentum" turned on in the default setup.  If you have a decoder that acts funny on a flywheel loco, try turning off the "momentum" and it may run much better.
                  I would say that if you are using DCC and it is not easy to install a flywheel, don't bother.  Just my two cents.
                  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                  From: corlissbs@...
                  Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:44:33 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Steam

                   

                  I would change the motor to can with a flywheel. 

                  Brad smith

                  Sent from Brad's iPod


                   



                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21551 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  On 10/15/2013 8:05 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote:
                  > Hi Rick,
                  > I don't know if you have built any of the old wood Central Valley kits.
                  > They were ok for the time period, but truly not any better than Silver
                  > Streak kits. I have a couple and will put then on the railroad, but
                  > truthfully I won't buy anymore unless I get a really good deal. The
                  > last one I bought, I paid 5 bucks and figured that was worth it just for
                  > the trucks. The Central Valley trucks are very nice, especially the
                  > passenger trucks. I do not lament their passing too much, (except the
                  > passenger trucks) since Kadee trucks are actually a bit nicer. If you
                  > want to build some nice wood kits, Ambroid/Northeastern is the way to
                  > go. These are and have always been very nice kits. LaBelle also builds
                  > up to some nice cars, but even as with Ambroid and LaBelle, you may wish
                  > to update some of the clunky details like grabs and stirrups.

                  To each their own. Yes, I have built Central Valley, Silver Streak,
                  Ambroid/Northeastern, La Belle and what have you. The CV kits remain my
                  favorites, even though era wise they are too old for my era of the later
                  '30s. I don't follow that slavishly though.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  The most destructive force in the Universe is gossip.
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21552 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/15/2013
                  Subject: Re: Vintage passenger and freight cars
                  On 10/15/2013 8:22 AM, Joel Holmes wrote:
                  > Hi Vic and Group,
                  >
                  > I have built Ambroid, Central Valley, Sliver Streak, and many other wood
                  > and wood/metal kits. I also have a bunch of LaBelle kit to build. I agree
                  > that the CV passenger trucks are very good and I think I must have more
                  > than 50 of them. For freight trucks I am getting Kadee and Bitter Creek
                  > trucks. Some of the Bitter Creek and Bethlehem passenger trucks are also
                  > very good. I also wonder about updating the "clunky" parts and how that
                  > would effect the vintage of the cars? Can anyone share some ideas about
                  > this aspect with us.

                  Unless I'm going to try for a contest model I build them as they
                  come. The only substitution I make is Kadee couplers, other than that
                  they get built stock.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  Have you noticed that a slight tax increase costs you $200 and a
                  substantial tax cut saves you 30 cents?
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21553 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/17/2013
                  Subject: Fwd: Railroad thermite welding - YouTube
                  FYI

                  Ba Humbug, more new stuff I don't know about, Must be getting old and out of touch.  Very cool tools and procedure for high speed rail but still not gonna get trains to 300 mph on the Northeast Amtrak line.


                  --
                  Regards,
                  Walter
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21554 From: Jim Heckard Date: 10/19/2013
                  Subject: large vintage collection for sale
                  Hello all,

                  Selling my large vintage collection since in bad health and my
                  children said to try to sell before they take. Collection contains 175
                  Steam engines, 200 + Diesels and 300 + Passenger cars. Vintage items
                  made between 1936 to 1975. All items with motors sold as is since
                  sitting on shelves after running them. Trying to sell the whole
                  collection as one since I can't list single items and mail out. Taking a
                  real shot in the dark that someone might want to buy the entire
                  collection at once and have one of the largest vintage collections all
                  at once before I give to be auctioned. If interested you would have to
                  pack and pick the collection up. Price of entire collection $30,000. I
                  realize that you would have to be close to do this but still thought I
                  would give the group members first dibs. Call me at 570-462-0661 for
                  more details . Don't answer on the computer.

                  Jim
                  Heckard
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21555 From: Mike Date: 10/19/2013
                  Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                  I am in somewhat the same situation as you, Jim - the doctors tell me I
                  have only a few months to go, and now I am faced with the dilemma of
                  what to do with the accumulation of all the HO "stuff" I have. (Not
                  nearly as much as you have, but enough.) I will be following this thread
                  and hoping for some kind of solution that works for folks like me and
                  others. There is no way that I could even think about
                  packing/shipping/etc. But I hate think that the whole pile will just be
                  tossed into the trash when I go. And then there are all the tools,
                  parts, and other related stuff...

                  Any suggestions would be appreciated. I had a large number of images
                  posted on a public website, but most of them seem to have been lost in a
                  server crash. I guess I will spend some time putting them back up on the
                  site (I don't have much else to do these days, and it will keep me
                  occupied).

                  Best wishes,

                  Mike

                  On 10/19/2013 5:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
                  > Hello all,
                  >
                  > Selling my large vintage collection since in bad health and my
                  > children said to try to sell before they take. Collection contains 175
                  > Steam engines, 200 + Diesels and 300 + Passenger cars. Vintage items
                  > made between 1936 to 1975. All items with motors sold as is since
                  > sitting on shelves after running them. Trying to sell the whole
                  > collection as one since I can't list single items and mail out. Taking a
                  > real shot in the dark that someone might want to buy the entire
                  > collection at once and have one of the largest vintage collections all
                  > at once before I give to be auctioned. If interested you would have to
                  > pack and pick the collection up. Price of entire collection $30,000. I
                  > realize that you would have to be close to do this but still thought I
                  > would give the group members first dibs. Call me at 570-462-0661 for
                  > more details . Don't answer on the computer.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  > Heckard
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21556 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/19/2013
                  Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                  On 10/19/2013 5:02 PM, Mike wrote:
                  > I am in somewhat the same situation as you, Jim - the doctors tell me I
                  > have only a few months to go, and now I am faced with the dilemma of
                  > what to do with the accumulation of all the HO "stuff" I have. (Not
                  > nearly as much as you have, but enough.) I will be following this thread
                  > and hoping for some kind of solution that works for folks like me and
                  > others. There is no way that I could even think about
                  > packing/shipping/etc. But I hate think that the whole pile will just be
                  > tossed into the trash when I go. And then there are all the tools,
                  > parts, and other related stuff...
                  >
                  > Any suggestions would be appreciated. I had a large number of images
                  > posted on a public website, but most of them seem to have been lost in a
                  > server crash. I guess I will spend some time putting them back up on the
                  > site (I don't have much else to do these days, and it will keep me
                  > occupied).
                  >
                  > Best wishes,
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  > On 10/19/2013 5:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
                  Do either of you have a club or a modeler friend nearby who could
                  undertake selling it for you, with the proceeds going to your loved
                  ones? I have a binder with a page for every model with what it is,
                  where and when I got it, and about what I think a fair current
                  replacement cost is. Lexy has already been instructed to contact one of
                  the members of our trolley club to dispose of it for her should
                  something happen. (And at our age, that's a distinct possibility).

                  Don

                  Don Dellmann
                  don.dellmann@...
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                  Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21557 From: Mike Date: 10/19/2013
                  Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                  I don't know about Jim, but I live in a very rural area of northwest NJ
                  with nobody around who has any idea what a "model railroad" might be.
                  (Think "toy trains".) Those few neighbors who have even taken the time
                  to look at it are completely stunned that I have half of a large barn
                  filled with this kind of thing. :-) That is why I sent out the message.
                  I don't want to try to make any money selling the stuff; I mostly just
                  want it to go to a good home. But it all has to go - I am not at all
                  interested in going through it piece by piece and trying assign
                  prices/values to it all.

                  I am going to see if I still have enough of my buttons working to
                  transfer the images from my PC to the public website
                  <www.fotki.com/mikesloane> There used to be a hundred or so images up
                  there, but the site was impacted by hurricane Sandy a couple of months
                  ago, and when I got home from the hospital I discovered that many of the
                  images had been lost somehow.

                  So give me a few days to locate the images and get some of them up
                  loaded to the website. I can do that, but everything takes a little
                  longer these days - the tumor impacts me in ways that are not
                  predictable or consistent.

                  Mike

                  On 10/19/2013 6:49 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                  > On 10/19/2013 5:02 PM, Mike wrote:
                  > > I am in somewhat the same situation as you, Jim - the doctors tell me I
                  > > have only a few months to go, and now I am faced with the dilemma of
                  > > what to do with the accumulation of all the HO "stuff" I have. (Not
                  > > nearly as much as you have, but enough.) I will be following this thread
                  > > and hoping for some kind of solution that works for folks like me and
                  > > others. There is no way that I could even think about
                  > > packing/shipping/etc. But I hate think that the whole pile will just be
                  > > tossed into the trash when I go. And then there are all the tools,
                  > > parts, and other related stuff...
                  > >
                  > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. I had a large number of images
                  > > posted on a public website, but most of them seem to have been lost in a
                  > > server crash. I guess I will spend some time putting them back up on the
                  > > site (I don't have much else to do these days, and it will keep me
                  > > occupied).
                  > >
                  > > Best wishes,
                  > >
                  > > Mike
                  > >
                  > > On 10/19/2013 5:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
                  > Do either of you have a club or a modeler friend nearby who could
                  > undertake selling it for you, with the proceeds going to your loved
                  > ones? I have a binder with a page for every model with what it is,
                  > where and when I got it, and about what I think a fair current
                  > replacement cost is. Lexy has already been instructed to contact one of
                  > the members of our trolley club to dispose of it for her should
                  > something happen. (And at our age, that's a distinct possibility).
                  >
                  > Don
                  >
                  > Don Dellmann
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 21558 From: John Hagen Date: 10/19/2013
                  Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                  Attachments :

                    Gee Jim,

                     

                    Sorry for posting this but I thought it best not to call as I am not in a position to even think about buying your collection, Unless I hit the Power Ball tonight. But, since I didn’t buy a ticket that is unlikely to happen.

                     

                    I am truly sad to hear your heath hasn’t improved. I know this has to be a huge step for you to take.

                     

                    You r collection is most certainly priced very fairly. I hope someone will be able to take all off your hands and keep it together. It is really fantastic collection of the good old days in HO.

                     

                    Thank you for all your efforts in building this collection. Our prayers are with you always.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard
                    Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 4:17 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [vintageHO] large vintage collection for sale

                     

                     

                    Hello all,

                    Selling my large vintage collection since in bad health and my
                    children said to try to sell before they take. Collection contains 175
                    Steam engines, 200 + Diesels and 300 + Passenger cars. Vintage items
                    made between 1936 to 1975. All items with motors sold as is since
                    sitting on shelves after running them. Trying to sell the whole
                    collection as one since I can't list single items and mail out. Taking a
                    real shot in the dark that someone might want to buy the entire
                    collection at once and have one of the largest vintage collections all
                    at once before I give to be auctioned. If interested you would have to
                    pack and pick the collection up. Price of entire collection $30,000. I
                    realize that you would have to be close to do this but still thought I
                    would give the group members first dibs. Call me at 570-462-0661 for
                    more details . Don't answer on the computer.

                    Jim
                    Heckard

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21559 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    re: disposing of collections etc.

                    Our local model railroad club has been helping folks dispose of
                    collections for many years. Sometimes we buy them outright, sometimes we
                    sell them
                    on commission, sometimes we direct folks to other
                    collectors/dealers/auction house etc. We try and meets the needs of the
                    collector as best we can.
                    We are listed in the local phone book and attend many shows with a banner
                    that advertizes what we can offer. Procedes are used to defray club
                    expenses.

                    The NMRA has a pretty ggod directory of clubs and where they are located.
                    Might want to give it a try.

                    Regards,

                    Dick Waite
                    North Shore Model Railroad Club, Wakefield, MA.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21560 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 10/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    Jim: I am sorry to get such news about you and Mike who wrote a similar message.  I hope you get a good and speedy offer.

                    I hope to be able to handle disposition of my own trains but just in case I have bought price guides for my stuff and designated a train friend younger than me to handle it for me if I do not get it done.  He is co-executor of my Will and it is stipulated there that he is to handle the trains and other specified items in which he has expertise and receive a specified set of models that he likes that I have plus a specified commission for the effort.  My collection is large also and it includes a large ride in train in my back yard.

                    Grace and Peace...
                    Don in Va.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21561 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    Very sorry that you guys need to dispose of your collections, but it's good to hear that you all are making arrangements for doing it and not letting it go for someone else to try to do it cold. I became a real believer in doing it intelligently and properly after hearing horror stories about relatives and others trying to settle estates after the owners departed on the last train out. It can give rise to all kinds of nightmares on the part of those who find themselves suddenly dealing with other associated responsibilities in addition. I'm trying to do something with my own collection while I can, but it is a problem for sure. Don't want 'em headed for the Dumpster--as my daughter-in-law has threatened to do.
                     
                    Art W
                     
                    In a message dated 10/19/2013 8:11:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chpln1@... writes:


                    Jim: I am sorry to get such news about you and Mike who wrote a similar message.  I hope you get a good and speedy offer.

                    I hope to be able to handle disposition of my own trains but just in case I have bought price guides for my stuff and designated a train friend younger than me to handle it for me if I do not get it done.  He is co-executor of my Will and it is stipulated there that he is to handle the trains and other specified items in which he has expertise and receive a specified set of models that he likes that I have plus a specified commission for the effort.  My collection is large also and it includes a large ride in train in my back yard.

                    Grace and Peace...
                    Don in Va.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21562 From: nvrr49 Date: 10/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale

                    Gentleman, to get the cash fast, there are people, Dan's Train Depot in Ocala, FL comes to mind, that specialize in this kind of thing.  I have bought several, okay, many, things from Dan and his team, and they are very professional, based on my experience.   If you need to get rid of a large collection, they would be worth a call.


                    Kent in KC

                    nvrr49.blogspot.com



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Very sorry that you guys need to dispose of your collections, but it's good to hear that you all are making arrangements for doing it and not letting it go for someone else to try to do it cold. I became a real believer in doing it intelligently and properly after hearing horror stories about relatives and others trying to settle estates after the owners departed on the last train out. It can give rise to all kinds of nightmares on the part of those who find themselves suddenly dealing with other associated responsibilities in addition. I'm trying to do something with my own collection while I can, but it is a problem for sure. Don't want 'em headed for the Dumpster--as my daughter-in-law has threatened to do.
                     
                    Art W
                     
                    In a message dated 10/19/2013 8:11:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chpln1@... writes:


                    Jim: I am sorry to get such news about you and Mike who wrote a similar message.  I hope you get a good and speedy offer.

                    I hope to be able to handle disposition of my own trains but just in case I have bought price guides for my stuff and designated a train friend younger than me to handle it for me if I do not get it done.  He is co-executor of my Will and it is stipulated there that he is to handle the trains and other specified items in which he has expertise and receive a specified set of models that he likes that I have plus a specified commission for the effort.  My collection is large also and it includes a large ride in train in my back yard.

                    Grace and Peace...
                    Don in Va.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21563 From: maryinvt2 Date: 10/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale

                    Jim, Mike and others,

                    Some day I too will have this problem. I'm 75 with five children and seven grand children and not one of them has caught the train bug from me, so what to do with my collection? Here's a few thoughts to ponder. 


                    Craigs List would be one way to advertise for buyers. Then in the classified section of the model magazines there are usually ads for people that buy and sell large collections of trains. Another way would be to Google for auctioneers that do this for a living. Also Google for "purchase train collections". Someone mentioned trains clubs that assist in finding good homes for collections. Perhaps people in clubs would help to sell off collections at train shows. Local hobby shops might purchase or sell on consignment. Hope this helps.

                    Richard in Vermont



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    I am in somewhat the same situation as you, Jim - the doctors tell me I
                    have only a few months to go, and now I am faced with the dilemma of
                    what to do with the accumulation of all the HO "stuff" I have. (Not
                    nearly as much as you have, but enough.) I will be following this thread
                    and hoping for some kind of solution that works for folks like me and
                    others. There is no way that I could even think about
                    packing/shipping/etc. But I hate think that the whole pile will just be
                    tossed into the trash when I go. And then there are all the tools,
                    parts, and other related stuff...

                    Any suggestions would be appreciated. I had a large number of images
                    posted on a public website, but most of them seem to have been lost in a
                    server crash. I guess I will spend some time putting them back up on the
                    site (I don't have much else to do these days, and it will keep me
                    occupied).

                    Best wishes,

                    Mike

                    On 10/19/2013 5:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
                    > Hello all,
                    >
                    > Selling my large vintage collection since in bad health and my
                    > children said to try to sell before they take. Collection contains 175
                    > Steam engines, 200 + Diesels and 300 + Passenger cars. Vintage items
                    > made between 1936 to 1975. All items with motors sold as is since
                    > sitting on shelves after running them. Trying to sell the whole
                    > collection as one since I can't list single items and mail out. Taking a
                    > real shot in the dark that someone might want to buy the entire
                    > collection at once and have one of the largest vintage collections all
                    > at once before I give to be auctioned. If interested you would have to
                    > pack and pick the collection up. Price of entire collection $30,000. I
                    > realize that you would have to be close to do this but still thought I
                    > would give the group members first dibs. Call me at 570-462-0661 for
                    > more details . Don't answer on the computer.
                    >
                    > Jim
                    > Heckard
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21564 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    On 10/20/2013 9:34 AM, nvrr49@... wrote:
                    > Gentleman, to get the cash fast, there are people, Dan's Train Depot in
                    > Ocala, FL comes to mind, that specialize in this kind of thing. I have
                    > bought several, okay, many, things from Dan and his team, and they are
                    > very professional, based on my experience. If you need to get rid of a
                    > large collection, they would be worth a call.

                    The problem with the professional collections buyers is that you'll
                    only get pennies on the dollar of it's real value since they are
                    expecting to turn a profit. I'd rather see mine go to people that can
                    truly appreciate it rather than see it as just a profit-making scheme.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    War is expensive. Peace is priceless.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21565 From: bongiovanni12001 Date: 10/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale

                    First, Jim, so sorry to hear about your situation.  First, because you will be missed by your family, friends, and the folks on this list who have appreciated and enjoyed your contributions.  Second, it's also sad to see what may happen to a collection that was so painstakingly assembled.

                     

                    Rick; you're absolutey right.  But that's where every one of us who has a collection of some substance (except for those of you who are immortal)need to do some thinking, planning, documenting, and possibly discussing this with potential survivors.  Yes, a professional buyer is going to look to make a profit; that's their business.  Some of us have friends who will assist our survivors in a fair manner.  Some of us have "friends" who are going to take advantage of our suvivors if they can.  And when considering disposing of a collection in a single transaction, "time is money". 

                     

                    Shameless plug; although it was written primarily for brass collectors, I did post the handout from my Estate Planning for Model Railroaders in this list's files a few years ago.  A lot of you may want to look at it.  If you haven't done some planning, it might help you. 

                     

                    Disclaimer; I don't do wills or appraisals, and I'm only licensed in Ohio.

                     

                    Frank Bongiovanni

                     



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    On 10/20/2013 9:34 AM, nvrr49@... wrote:
                    > Gentleman, to get the cash fast, there are people, Dan's Train Depot in
                    > Ocala, FL comes to mind, that specialize in this kind of thing. I have
                    > bought several, okay, many, things from Dan and his team, and they are
                    > very professional, based on my experience. If you need to get rid of a
                    > large collection, they would be worth a call.

                    The problem with the professional collections buyers is that you'll
                    only get pennies on the dollar of it's real value since they are
                    expecting to turn a profit. I'd rather see mine go to people that can
                    truly appreciate it rather than see it as just a profit-making scheme.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    War is expensive. Peace is priceless.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21566 From: Nelson Date: 10/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    Mike,

                    This news from you and Jim makes me profoundly sad. We're losing friends as well as tremendous resources in vintage HO collecting, which is a small enough pond already.

                    Since you're in New Jersey, one possibility is the Model Railroad Shop in Piscataway.  http://themodelrailroadshop.com/wp/ 
                    Jack has sold off a number of large collections, and from what I've seen does well by the families. There was a massive collection that he handled earlier this year, and he was selling off the weathered cars -- which apparently numbered in the thousands -- through the shop, trains shows, and perhaps online.

                    He told me this is something he's had to do far too often in recent years.

                    Nelson


                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't know about Jim, but I live in a very rural area of northwest NJ
                    > with nobody around who has any idea what a "model railroad" might be.
                    > (Think "toy trains".) Those few neighbors who have even taken the time
                    > to look at it are completely stunned that I have half of a large barn
                    > filled with this kind of thing. :-) That is why I sent out the message.
                    > I don't want to try to make any money selling the stuff; I mostly just
                    > want it to go to a good home. But it all has to go - I am not at all
                    > interested in going through it piece by piece and trying assign
                    > prices/values to it all.
                    >
                    > I am going to see if I still have enough of my buttons working to
                    > transfer the images from my PC to the public website
                    > There used to be a hundred or so images up
                    > there, but the site was impacted by hurricane Sandy a couple of months
                    > ago, and when I got home from the hospital I discovered that many of the
                    > images had been lost somehow.
                    >
                    > So give me a few days to locate the images and get some of them up
                    > loaded to the website. I can do that, but everything takes a little
                    > longer these days - the tumor impacts me in ways that are not
                    > predictable or consistent.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    > On 10/19/2013 6:49 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                    > > On 10/19/2013 5:02 PM, Mike wrote:
                    > > > I am in somewhat the same situation as you, Jim - the doctors tell me I
                    > > > have only a few months to go, and now I am faced with the dilemma of
                    > > > what to do with the accumulation of all the HO "stuff" I have. (Not
                    > > > nearly as much as you have, but enough.) I will be following this thread
                    > > > and hoping for some kind of solution that works for folks like me and
                    > > > others. There is no way that I could even think about
                    > > > packing/shipping/etc. But I hate think that the whole pile will just be
                    > > > tossed into the trash when I go. And then there are all the tools,
                    > > > parts, and other related stuff...
                    > > >
                    > > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. I had a large number of images
                    > > > posted on a public website, but most of them seem to have been lost in a
                    > > > server crash. I guess I will spend some time putting them back up on the
                    > > > site (I don't have much else to do these days, and it will keep me
                    > > > occupied).
                    > > >
                    > > > Best wishes,
                    > > >
                    > > > Mike
                    > > >
                    > > > On 10/19/2013 5:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
                    > > Do either of you have a club or a modeler friend nearby who could
                    > > undertake selling it for you, with the proceeds going to your loved
                    > > ones? I have a binder with a page for every model with what it is,
                    > > where and when I got it, and about what I think a fair current
                    > > replacement cost is. Lexy has already been instructed to contact one of
                    > > the members of our trolley club to dispose of it for her should
                    > > something happen. (And at our age, that's a distinct possibility).
                    > >
                    > > Don
                    > >
                    > > Don Dellmann
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21567 From: Richard Carbo Date: 10/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    Unfortunately, it is a reality that we all face, but it doesn't make it any easier. My thoughts and prayers are with hall of you. Richard

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Oct 21, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote:

                     

                    Mike,

                    This news from you and Jim makes me profoundly sad. We're losing friends as well as tremendous resources in vintage HO collecting, which is a small enough pond already.

                    Since you're in New Jersey, one possibility is the Model Railroad Shop in Piscataway.  http://themodelrailroadshop.com/wp/ 
                    Jack has sold off a number of large collections, and from what I've seen does well by the families. There was a massive collection that he handled earlier this year, and he was selling off the weathered cars -- which apparently numbered in the thousands -- through the shop, trains shows, and perhaps online.

                    He told me this is something he's had to do far too often in recent years.

                    Nelson


                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't know about Jim, but I live in a very rural area of northwest NJ
                    > with nobody around who has any idea what a "model railroad" might be.
                    > (Think "toy trains".) Those few neighbors who have even taken the time
                    > to look at it are completely stunned that I have half of a large barn
                    > filled with this kind of thing. :-) That is why I sent out the message.
                    > I don't want to try to make any money selling the stuff; I mostly just
                    > want it to go to a good home. But it all has to go - I am not at all
                    > interested in going through it piece by piece and trying assign
                    > prices/values to it all.
                    >
                    > I am going to see if I still have enough of my buttons working to
                    > transfer the images from my PC to the public website
                    > There used to be a hundred or so images up
                    > there, but the site was impacted by hurricane Sandy a couple of months
                    > ago, and when I got home from the hospital I discovered that many of the
                    > images had been lost somehow.
                    >
                    > So give me a few days to locate the images and get some of them up
                    > loaded to the website. I can do that, but everything takes a little
                    > longer these days - the tumor impacts me in ways that are not
                    > predictable or consistent.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
                    > On 10/19/2013 6:49 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                    > > On 10/19/2013 5:02 PM, Mike wrote:
                    > > > I am in somewhat the same situation as you, Jim - the doctors tell me I
                    > > > have only a few months to go, and now I am faced with the dilemma of
                    > > > what to do with the accumulation of all the HO "stuff" I have. (Not
                    > > > nearly as much as you have, but enough.) I will be following this thread
                    > > > and hoping for some kind of solution that works for folks like me and
                    > > > others. There is no way that I could even think about
                    > > > packing/shipping/etc. But I hate think that the whole pile will just be
                    > > > tossed into the trash when I go. And then there are all the tools,
                    > > > parts, and other related stuff...
                    > > >
                    > > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. I had a large number of images
                    > > > posted on a public website, but most of them seem to have been lost in a
                    > > > server crash. I guess I will spend some time putting them back up on the
                    > > > site (I don't have much else to do these days, and it will keep me
                    > > > occupied).
                    > > >
                    > > > Best wishes,
                    > > >
                    > > > Mike
                    > > >
                    > > > On 10/19/2013 5:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:
                    > > Do either of you have a club or a modeler friend nearby who could
                    > > undertake selling it for you, with the proceeds going to your loved
                    > > ones? I have a binder with a page for every model with what it is,
                    > > where and when I got it, and about what I think a fair current
                    > > replacement cost is. Lexy has already been instructed to contact one of
                    > > the members of our trolley club to dispose of it for her should
                    > > something happen. (And at our age, that's a distinct possibility).
                    > >
                    > > Don
                    > >
                    > > Don Dellmann
                    >

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21568 From: erieberk Date: 10/22/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    Jim, Mike and Group,

                    I echo the same sentiments as everyone else here, and will continue to pray
                    for your improved health. It distresses me to hear that these collections
                    must be dismantled and I'm truly sorry to learn this, but of course it's
                    completely understandable. Just like all other modelers on this group, I too
                    will soon need to address this problem, while going on 75 years old now.

                    But getting to the point of this topic, while I can't suggest an outlet for
                    Jim's collection, what does come to mind is that I recall reading a while
                    back, of a NMRA HO museum although I don't know how far off the ground it's
                    become. Even then, if it has advanced to any degree, I have no idea if it's
                    in a position to buy collections. Having seen Jim's vast collection a good
                    many years ago on a video he made and lent me, I can only say that his
                    asking price is EXTREMELY conservative.

                    As for Mike's situation, I can suggest looking into the Sussex County
                    Railroad Club, which as I believe is into both prototype and model railroading in
                    that northwestern part of NJ. They hold periodic train meet/swap & sells
                    and may be worth looking into in consigning models with them to sell, if
                    they'd be open to it. -- after all, this would be a money maker to them, as well
                    as for Mike. A very active member of that club, and a good friend of mine
                    by the name of Dave Rutan (who recently had a prototype RR book published)
                    in Franklin, NJ, would be one whom I'd recommend contacting -- and you could
                    use my name as to where you found him. If you'd like his contact info, I'd
                    be glad to supply it.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    </HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21569 From: vancampbell64 Date: 10/22/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale

                    Good morning, Gentleman. Yes, this is an issue all of us will eventually have to face as time goes on. I'm only 49, but that eventuality is something that has haunting me been in the back of my mind for some time now. I fear that, like the steam locomotive, our passion, and those who embrace it, are disappearing exponentially. I look at the younger generations and I observe a conspicuous lack of both the appreciation and the desire to preserve that which previous generations have fought so hard to keep from fading into obscurity. As the memories and articles of generations past slowly pass into the care and keeping of generations more concerned about when the next I-Phone is to be released and what is going on on Facebook than to the traditions, memories and the works of the hands of those with the passion for model trains, we all need to think carefully about the disposition of our prized articles upon our demise. All we can do is to pray that the executor of our estate shares at least some of our passion and is very selective as to to whom and how the assets are distributed. Take Care Friends!



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <erieberk@...> wrote:

                    Jim, Mike and Group,

                    I echo the same sentiments as everyone else here, and will continue to pray
                    for your improved health. It distresses me to hear that these collections
                    must be dismantled and I'm truly sorry to learn this, but of course it's
                    completely understandable. Just like all other modelers on this group, I too
                    will soon need to address this problem, while going on 75 years old now.

                    But getting to the point of this topic, while I can't suggest an outlet for
                    Jim's collection, what does come to mind is that I recall reading a while
                    back, of a NMRA HO museum although I don't know how far off the ground it's
                    become. Even then, if it has advanced to any degree, I have no idea if it's
                    in a position to buy collections. Having seen Jim's vast collection a good
                    many years ago on a video he made and lent me, I can only say that his
                    asking price is EXTREMELY conservative.

                    As for Mike's situation, I can suggest looking into the Sussex County
                    Railroad Club, which as I believe is into both prototype and model railroading in
                    that northwestern part of NJ. They hold periodic train meet/swap & sells
                    and may be worth looking into in consigning models with them to sell, if
                    they'd be open to it. -- after all, this would be a money maker to them, as well
                    as for Mike. A very active member of that club, and a good friend of mine
                    by the name of Dave Rutan (who recently had a prototype RR book published)
                    in Franklin, NJ, would be one whom I'd recommend contacting -- and you could
                    use my name as to where you found him. If you'd like his contact info, I'd
                    be glad to supply it.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    </HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21570 From: lvtrainmeet Date: 10/23/2013
                    Subject: Slot Car show coming...

                     

                    The Great Lehigh Valley Slot Car Show

                    Merchants Square Mall

                    1901 S 12th st

                    Allentown Pa 18103

                     

                    November 2nd 2013

                    Saturday

                    10-3

                     

                    Admission $5.00

                    Early Buy $10.00 8am

                    Tables $20.00 prepaid $25.00 at door

                    Questions 610-440-0487

                     

                    Info:Http://www.valleygoto.com

                     

                    Racing Sponsored by Valley Rail Trains and Hobbies

                    Trophies,Prizes.. http://www.valleyrail.net

                     

                    Dealers from 5 states. new vendors every show..

                     

                    All Scales New/old/Parts HO-1/24

                     

                    Racing /Ecchor TBA

                     

                    We continue to grow every show.

                     

                    Easy access from Pa Turnpike NE extenstion.

                     

                    Less than 1 mile from I-78 ext 57.

                     

                    Hope to see ya there..

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21571 From: Morgan Smith Date: 10/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    tehachapikid
                     Don't get me started.  We live in an increasingly tragic era.  We are very lucky we lived when we did.  I am 74 and wouldn't trade places with today's
                     kids.  Imagine what they face. Their indifference to things like hobbies and society is a terrible entropy.  We enjoyed a gentility that is simply gone.
                     I have ranted for years about the dangers of the so-called electronic advantages.  Einstein tried to warn us about moving too fast away from human-ess, in 1928, and so did the likes of H.G. Wells and a litany  of other thinkers.  Kids don't know who Elvis and the Beatles were, let alone Count Basie or Chopin.  Can you image?!
                    I bemoan the loss of the hands-on niceties, like Ma & Pa Craftsmen shops, the local evening paper, and soon, libraries and local post offices.  It's
                    being predicted that everybody will work at home and buy on line.  No more offices and a few huge box stores. 
                    And restaurants.  We must continue getting fatter.
                    Yet, when exposed, kids excite over steam engines.  I think there will survive a small group who will always fascinate over trains.  Maybe one of them will come to my rescue, for I too am wondering about my large collection.
                    Best to all.  Rejoice about your ages.  But I am sad to hear of our ill members.  Special good wishes to you.   MorganS



                    On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 12:25 PM, "tehachapikid@..." <tehachapikid@...> wrote:
                     
                    Good morning, Gentleman. Yes, this is an issue all of us will eventually have to face as time goes on. I'm only 49, but that eventuality is something that has haunting me been in the back of my mind for some time now. I fear that, like the steam locomotive, our passion, and those who embrace it, are disappearing exponentially. I look at the younger generations and I observe a conspicuous lack of both the appreciation and the desire to preserve that which previous generations have fought so hard to keep from fading into obscurity. As the memories and articles of generations past slowly pass into the care and keeping of generations more concerned about when the next I-Phone is to be released and what is going on on Facebook than to the traditions, memories and the works of the hands of those with the passion for model trains, we all need to think carefully about the disposition of our prized articles upon our demise. All we can do is to pray that the executor of our estate shares at least some of our passion and is very selective as to to whom and how the assets are distributed. Take Care Friends!


                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <erieberk@...> wrote:

                    Jim, Mike and Group,

                    I echo the same sentiments as everyone else here, and will continue to pray
                    for your improved health. It distresses me to hear that these collections
                    must be dismantled and I'm truly sorry to learn this, but of course it's
                    completely understandable. Just like all other modelers on this group, I too
                    will soon need to address this problem, while going on 75 years old now.

                    But getting to the point of this topic, while I can't suggest an outlet for
                    Jim's collection, what does come to mind is that I recall reading a while
                    back, of a NMRA HO museum although I don't know how far off the ground it's
                    become. Even then, if it has advanced to any degree, I have no idea if it's
                    in a position to buy collections. Having seen Jim's vast collection a good
                    many years ago on a video he made and lent me, I can only say that his
                    asking price is EXTREMELY conservative.

                    As for Mike's situation, I can suggest looking into the Sussex County
                    Railroad Club, which as I believe is into both prototype and model railroading in
                    that northwestern part of NJ. They hold periodic train meet/swap & sells
                    and may be worth looking into in consigning models with them to sell, if
                    they'd be open to it. -- after all, this would be a money maker to them, as well
                    as for Mike. A very active member of that club, and a good friend of mine
                    by the name of Dave Rutan (who recently had a prototype RR book published)
                    in Franklin, NJ, would be one whom I'd recommend contacting -- and you could
                    use my name as to where you found him. If you'd like his contact info, I'd
                    be glad to supply it.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    </HTML>


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21572 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    I will endeavor to be brief, which is difficult for me. :<)

                    I would hate to see Jim H's collection broken up. I think we are all in agreement about that.

                    The beauty of Jim H's collection is the organization. Things are well organized, shelved and labelled. Many pix have been taken, and I expect Jim and family would allow more pix and videos, which could be used to market this wonderful work of art (I feel that is what Jim's collection is, a work of art) to potential buyers.

                    Potential buyers of the entire collection would be, the NMRA, already mentioned, and perhaps the TCA. Are there others?

                    To minimize cash-flow problems NMRA or TCA or other might have, the buying organization might offer Jim and family payments in installments, and then run annual drives to collect the funds needed to pay the installments. They could sell books, CD's, DVD's, about the collection to help finance the payments. 

                    If Jim and family prefer a lump sum, the money might have to be borrowed by the buying org. That might be difficult, but it should not be impossible. 

                    Facilities for displaying the collection might have to be built. 

                    The collection would have to be prepared and packed for removal by knowledgeable caring people, probably volunteers, with Jim and family supervision and guidance to the extent possible. In any event, removal will cost money.

                    Question 1: Can pix and videos be gathered and new ones taken?

                    Question 2: Is anyone in a position to approach the NMRA and/or the TCA and/or any other prospective buyer?

                    Regards,
                    Walter




                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21573 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 10/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: large vintage collection for sale

                    The NMRA is moving their museum to California to the railroad museum in Sacramento .  As far as I know they will accept donations of equipment, but they will not buy any collections.

                     

                    Take care,

                     

                    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

                    https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

                     


                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@...
                    Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:23 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: large vintage collection for sale

                     

                     

                    Jim, Mike and Group,

                    I echo the same sentiments as everyone else here, and will continue to pray
                    for your improved health. It distresses me to hear that these collections
                    must be dismantled and I'm truly sorry to learn this, but of course it's
                    completely understandable. Just like all other modelers on this group, I too
                    will soon need to address this problem, while going on 75 years old now.

                    But getting to the point of this topic, while I can't suggest an outlet for
                    Jim's collection, what does come to mind is that I recall reading a while
                    back, of a NMRA HO museum although I don't know how far off the ground it's
                    become. Even then, if it has advanced to any degree, I have no idea if it's
                    in a position to buy collections. Having seen Jim's vast collection a good
                    many years ago on a video he made and lent me, I can only say that his
                    asking price is EXTREMELY conservative.

                    As for Mike's situation, I can suggest looking into the Sussex County
                    Railroad Club, which as I believe is into both prototype and model railroading in
                    that northwestern part of NJ. They hold periodic train meet/swap & sells
                    and may be worth looking into in consigning models with them to sell, if
                    they'd be open to it. -- after all, this would be a money maker to them, as well
                    as for Mike. A very active member of that club, and a good friend of mine
                    by the name of Dave Rutan (who recently had a prototype RR book published)
                    in Franklin , NJ, would be one whom I'd recommend contacting -- and you could
                    use my name as to where you found him. If you'd like his contact info, I'd
                    be glad to supply it.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    </HTML>

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21574 From: corv9 Date: 10/24/2013
                    Subject: Tetsudo / International ALCO trucks
                    Hi, have bought an ALCO RS unit , by Tetsudo Mokei Sha, without trucks and drive components. As I want to restore it to as built condition, I am looking for corect ALCO AAR B trucks or sideframes. This particulare trucks were of spring belt drive; one single spring belt drove one truck, then a flexible tube transmitted power to the second truck. Sideframes were rather crude brass castings.
                    I have two spare trucks without sideframes, so sideframes alone would be sufficient to complete the loco.
                    Any trace would be appreciated.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21575 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/27/2013
                    Subject: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed
                    Attachments :
                    Picked up an early brass baggage car at a show. Car is 1860's era and
                    similar to a Gem/Sam model on eBay but it's not the same. (see
                    http://r.ebay.com/e1EhmH )

                    Made in Japan, with a plate that says : MANUFACTURED IN JAPAN for
                    SMART PRODUCTS NEW YORK, NY.

                    Never heard anything about this importer. One interesting feature of the
                    car is that 'BAGGAGE' is engraved on the sides.
                    Any help woujld be appreciated.

                    Thanks,

                    R. Waite
                    Topsfeild, MA
                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21576 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/27/2013
                    Subject: Re: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed [1 Attachment]
                    Wrong photo attached!
                    Walter


                    On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 4:57 PM, <acace@...> wrote:
                     
                    [Attachment(s) from acace@... included below]



                    Picked up an early brass baggage car at a show. Car is 1860's era and
                    similar to a Gem/Sam model on eBay but it's not the same. (see
                    http://r.ebay.com/e1EhmH )

                    Made in Japan, with a plate that says : MANUFACTURED IN JAPAN for
                    SMART PRODUCTS NEW YORK, NY.

                    Never heard anything about this importer. One interesting feature of the
                    car is that 'BAGGAGE' is engraved on the sides.
                    Any help woujld be appreciated.

                    Thanks,

                    R. Waite
                    Topsfeild, MA




                    --
                    Regards,
                    Walter
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21577 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/27/2013
                    Subject: Re: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed
                    Hmm, it came up properly for me...It's only the ID plate, not the whole
                    car (not taken yet).

                    The eBay refenerce show2s a very similar car.

                    R. Waite
                    Topsfield, MA
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21578 From: Jim Waterman Date: 10/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Early Brass Baggage Car Info Needed

                    Smart Products was a brand name used by International Model Products, and importer who was active in the 1950’s and into the very early 1960’s.

                    They were known for inexpensive brass products imported from Japan. Tenshodo was one of their early suppliers before going into the higher end models typically imported by firms like Pacific Fast Mail.

                     

                    Jim Waterman

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21579 From: dwaite2000 Date: 10/28/2013
                    Subject: Ambroid Question
                    Having gotten positive responses on my Smart Products question (thanks),
                    I'll try another one.

                    Ambroid made a wooden 61' Baggage car kit for years (and Norhteast
                    continued it). All of the ones I've seen have 6 baggage doors, 3 per
                    side.
                    However, in the early ad's a 4 door car is shown. Did they ever make the
                    kit with 8 doors, 4 per side?

                    Thanks,

                    R. Waite
                    Topsfield, MA
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21580 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ambroid Question
                    Hi R Waite,

                    I believe that Ambroid put 8 doors into each kit. You could modify the
                    sides to make a 4 door car. I built 2 with 3 doors in my very early days
                    of building Ambroid cars as well as 4 coaches and 2 combines.

                    Joel Holmes

                    >
                    >
                    > Having gotten positive responses on my Smart Products question (thanks),
                    > I'll try another one.
                    >
                    > Ambroid made a wooden 61' Baggage car kit for years (and Norhteast
                    > continued it). All of the ones I've seen have 6 baggage doors, 3 per
                    > side.
                    > However, in the early ad's a 4 door car is shown. Did they ever make the
                    > kit with 8 doors, 4 per side?
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > R. Waite
                    > Topsfield, MA
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21581 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: large vintage collection for sale
                    Donald H.,

                    I think you have a good point. And I will repeat what I wrote before and expand on it because it is just as important, whether Jim H. goes ahead with selling his collection now or his estate does it later: Take good photos, make videos, with scripted narration, use them and also safeguard copies in safe places [iCloud or other Cloud,and  thumbnail drive, or two, etc. A lot of detailed info is already available, thanks to Jim H., in the archives of these 2 fora too. That could also be compiled.

                    I would hope that it would be possible to find an organization willing and able to curate Jim H.'s collection. If such could be found, and it was unable to (or for policy reasons, unwilling to) buy the collection, I, for one, would be willing to make a substantial donation toward the purchase of the entire collection to finance the donation of the acquisition. Is there a PA lawyer in the group(s) who can structure such a deal?

                    Walter


                    On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:49 PM, DONALD HENNEN <don.hennen@...> wrote:
                     

                    A slightly different perspective occurs to me because of my uncle who collected and repaired antique radios. Another of my uncles persuaded him to sell of most of his collection just so it would not be for others to dispose of. My dad thought this was kind of calloused because a person ought not to be as if he were dead until he dies. Let him keep his hobby and keep living to the end.

                    Another now-deceased uncle collected toy tractors and, when he died, his collection was big enough to have a real auction with the proper advertising and enough buyers present to get what the merchandise was worth. What if he had gradually sold of most of it? Would any of it have had that kind of market?

                    I'm not saying that either approach is better, but I do think that all should be considered before doing anything. Then, I think what is done should be right for everyone, hobbyist and estate alike.

                    --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, <don_hud@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A little experience from the other side.
                    >
                    > I have gathered a large model railroad collection also but for the last 3 months I have been trying to clean out my parents house and dispose of it's contents. I have sold things, donated things, given stuff away to individuals, thrown things away and kept a lot of things myself. And I am still dealing with all the stuff that I kept. I have stuff every where now and the wife is not very happy about all this stuff I brought home. It has been a big task that I am not finished with yet.
                    >
                    > It makes you think about all the stuff you have in your house and if you suddenly leave this world what will happen to it all. What kind of burden are you leaving for your relatives that may have to get involved in settling your estate. My parents stuff meant a lot more to me than it does to my wife and some things you hate to part with, but her solution to this is to just throw it all away. So, you could end up with someone like that to dispose of everything that has no appreciation for it and just wants to get ride of it quick and easy.
                    >
                    > It's more fun to buy it and play with it, but you need to give some serious thought to cleaning up, organizing and selling off some things while you can. If you wait until you start having health problems, it may be too late.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    >
                    > ---In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, <long95209@> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear friend Jim . I'm so terribly sad to hear this . I hope someone can help you with this precious part of your life . God Bless and keep you all . If I split the Power Ball with John H you''ll hear frrom us . Take as best care as you can Jim . Henry H.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello all,
                    >
                    > Selling my large vintage collection since in bad health and my
                    > children said to try to sell before they take. Collection contains 175
                    > Steam engines, 200 + Diesels and 300 + Passenger cars. Vintage items
                    > made between 1936 to 1975. All items with motors sold as is since
                    > sitting on shelves after running them. Trying to sell the whole
                    > collection as one since I can't list single items and mail out. Taking a
                    > real shot in the dark that someone might want to buy the entire
                    > collection at once and have one of the largest vintage collections all
                    > at once before I give to be auctioned. If interested you would have to
                    > pack and pick the collection up. Price of entire collection $30,000. I
                    > realize that you would have to be close to do this but still thought I
                    > would give the group members first dibs. Call me at 570-462-0661 for
                    > more details . Don't answer on the computer.
                    >
                    > Jim
                    > Heckard

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21582 From: luvprr2003 Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: large vintage collection for sale
                     
                    Guys,
                    As I have stated over the years, it is WAY better to have a destination set up for a large collection. DO NOT have the relatives deal with it unless they love your stuff and are happy to spend the time looking for buyers and to sit around while prospective buyers drop around at their convenience (or in an auction) and pick at it and offer or bid junk prices for most of it. You would surprised at how soon even the closest and most loving relatives (and especially those who aren't) will make decisions that would make you roll over in your grave because they will become quite resentful--sometimes faster than you think. And they will feel terribly guilty (or not) about basically dumping your beloved stuff while they try to deal with the settlement of the rest of your estate. I have personally seen this happen--as believe it or not--there can be quite a bit of anger after the death of a spouse. There is nothing callous about doing the job yourself while you have control--even if it's piecemeal and painful. It's just being realistic, and should I say--adult.
                     
                    Art W
                     
                    In a message dated 10/31/2013 2:31:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bayerw2@... writes:


                    Donald H.,

                    I think you have a good point. And I will repeat what I wrote before and expand on it because it is just as important, whether Jim H. goes ahead with selling his collection now or his estate does it later: Take good photos, make videos, with scripted narration, use them and also safeguard copies in safe places [resentful or other Cloud,and  thumbnail drive, or two, etc. A lot of detailed info is already available, thanks to Jim H., in the archives of these 2 fora too. That could also be compiled.

                    I would hope that it would be possible to find an organization willing and able to curate Jim H.'s collection. If such could be found, and it was unable to (or for policy reasons, unwilling to) buy the collection, I, for one, would be willing to make a substantial donation toward the purchase of the entire collection to finance the donation of the acquisition. Is there a PA lawyer in the group(s) who can structure such a deal?

                    Walter


                    On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:49 PM, DONALD HENNEN <don.hennen@...> wrote:
                     

                    A slightly different perspective occurs to me because of my uncle who collected and repaired antique radios. Another of my uncles persuaded him to sell of most of his collection just so it would not be for others to dispose of. My dad thought this was kind of calloused because a person ought not to be as if he were dead until he dies. Let him keep his hobby and keep living to the end.

                    Another now-deceased uncle collected toy tractors and, when he died, his collection was big enough to have a real auction with the proper advertising and enough buyers present to get what the merchandise was worth. What if he had gradually sold of most of it? Would any of it have had that kind of market?

                    I'm not saying that either approach is better, but I do think that all should be considered before doing anything. Then, I think what is done should be right for everyone, hobbyist and estate alike.

                    --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, <don_hud@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A little experience from the other side.
                    >
                    > I have gathered a large model railroad collection also but for the last 3 months I have been trying to clean out my parents house and dispose of it's contents. I have sold things, donated things, given stuff away to individuals, thrown things away and kept a lot of things myself. And I am still dealing with all the stuff that I kept. I have stuff every where now and the wife is not very happy about all this stuff I brought home. It has been a big task that I am not finished with yet.
                    >
                    > It makes you think about all the stuff you have in your house and if you suddenly leave this world what will happen to it all. What kind of burden are you leaving for your relatives that may have to get involved in settling your estate. My parents stuff meant a lot more to me than it does to my wife and some things you hate to part with, but her solution to this is to just throw it all away. So, you could end up with someone like that to dispose of everything that has no appreciation for it and just wants to get ride of it quick and easy.
                    >
                    > It's more fun to buy it and play with it, but you need to give some serious thought to cleaning up, organizing and selling off some things while you can. If you wait until you start having health problems, it may be too late.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    >
                    > ---In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, <long95209@> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear friend Jim . I'm so terribly sad to hear this . I hope someone can help you with this precious part of your life . God Bless and keep you all . If I split the Power Ball with John H you''ll hear frrom us . Take as best care as you can Jim . Henry H.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello all,
                    >
                    > Selling my large vintage collection since in bad health and my
                    > children said to try to sell before they take. Collection contains 175
                    > Steam engines, 200 + Diesels and 300 + Passenger cars. Vintage items
                    > made between 1936 to 1975. All items with motors sold as is since
                    > sitting on shelves after running them. Trying to sell the whole
                    > collection as one since I can't list single items and mail out. Taking a
                    > real shot in the dark that someone might want to buy the entire
                    > collection at once and have one of the largest vintage collections all
                    > at once before I give to be auctioned. If interested you would have to
                    > pack and pick the collection up. Price of entire collection $30,000. I
                    > realize that you would have to be close to do this but still thought I
                    > would give the group members first dibs. Call me at 570-462-0661 for
                    > more details . Don't answer on the computer.
                    >
                    > Jim
                    > Heckard

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21583 From: Rakahrd Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Vintage train kits
                    I recently came into possession of a lot of old vintage HO train kits in several stages of assembly ex new to partially completed. are they worth any thing ? I don't have use for all that is there ?
                    would like to sell some if the price is worth it .
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21584 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Re: Vintage train kits
                    Rakahrd,

                    This group seems to be as good as any other place.  A good description or a basic description with pictures would help you sell.

                    Garry Spear


                    On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Rakahrd <rakahrd@...> wrote:
                     

                    I recently came into possession of a lot of old vintage HO train kits in several stages of assembly ex new to partially completed. are they worth any thing ? I don't have use for all that is there ?
                    would like to sell some if the price is worth it .


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21585 From: Joel Holmes Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Re: Vintage train kits
                    Hi Richard,

                    Could you let me know what you have that you do not want. I started
                    modeling in 1952 and have a lot of vintage cars.

                    Joel Holmes
                    lehighvalley@...

                    > I recently came into possession of a lot of old vintage HO train kits
                    > in several stages of assembly ex new to partially completed. are they
                    > worth any thing ? I don't have use for all that is there ?
                    > would like to sell some if the price is worth it .
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21586 From: John Hagen Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Re: Vintage train kits

                    Rakahrd,

                     

                    Vintage kits are worth something. How much depends on a lot of variables. Nowadays there is small demand for kits. Most train guys would just as soon have perfectly detailed rolling stock come in a ready to run box.

                     

                    That said there does remain a market. What you need to do is make up an inventory and take some photos. Put them up on such a site like this one (that is a hint to post hem here) and see if someone will make you an offer for them. Of course, while you can post the data here, any negotiations will have to take place off list.

                     

                    Your other choice is determine what you have and check on eBay to see what, if anything, they are selling for. This will take some research and you cannot go by the asking prices for the kits. Yu have to check for completed or sold auctions to see what they really are selling for. What most of the people who sell there have a very rosey idea of what these kits are worth.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rakahrd
                    Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 3:55 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage train kits

                     

                     

                    I recently came into possession of a lot of old vintage HO train kits in several stages of assembly ex new to partially completed. are they worth any thing ? I don't have use for all that is there ?
                    would like to sell some if the price is worth it .

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21587 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/31/2013
                    Subject: Re: Vintage train kits
                    On 10/31/2013 5:13 PM, John Hagen wrote:

                    Rakahrd,

                     

                    Vintage kits are worth something. How much depends on a lot of variables. Nowadays there is small demand for kits. Most train guys would just as soon have perfectly detailed rolling stock come in a ready to run box.

                     

                    That said there does remain a market. What you need to do is make up an inventory and take some photos. Put them up on such a site like this one (that is a hint to post hem here) and see if someone will make you an offer for them. Of course, while you can post the data here, any negotiations will have to take place off list.

                     

                    Your other choice is determine what you have and check on eBay to see what, if anything, they are selling for. This will take some research and you cannot go by the asking prices for the kits. Yu have to check for completed or sold auctions to see what they really are selling for. What most of the people who sell there have a very rosey idea of what these kits are worth.

                     

                    Jo! hn Hagen

                     


                    Just as a bit of a follow-up to this.  Unbuilt kits will definiteley demand a much higher price than assembled or partially assembled kits.  Just one specific example, I can usually find unbuilt Silver Streak refrigerator car kits for around $ 10.00 on eBay.   Assembled ones at swap meets go for around $ 4.00 where you can see what you're getting.  The last assembled one I got  on eBay I got for TWENTY FIVE CENTS 'cause no one else even wanted to bid.

                    Like anything else, you can look at all the catalogs, buyer's guides, eBay auctions, whatever you want.  The TRUE value is exactly what somebody's willing to pay for it.

                    That said, I want to reemphasize what John said, get good pictures and decent descriptions.  Post them in an album here (let us know when you do) and we'll be happy to help you out.  If you're not sure what a model is, give us a couple GOOD pictures, especially sides, ends and underbody, and someone here will be sure to be able tell you exactly what it is that you have.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21588 From: Dave Audley Date: 11/1/2013
                    Subject: Re: Vintage train kits
                    For a few years ( in the 1950's ), Roundhouse kits were packaged in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
                    I have a KATY caboose kit so marked! HO Scale, of course! A price of $1.00 is on the box end!
                    Dave Audley

                    --------------------------------------------
                    On Thu, 10/31/13, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage train kits
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Thursday, October 31, 2013, 6:24 PM
















                     












                    On 10/31/2013
                    5:13 PM, John Hagen
                    wrote:










                    Rakahrd,
                     
                    Vintage
                    kits are worth something. How much depends on a
                    lot of
                    variables. Nowadays there is small demand for
                    kits. Most
                    train guys would just as soon have perfectly
                    detailed
                    rolling stock come in a ready to run
                    box.
                     
                    That
                    said there does remain a market. What you need
                    to do is make
                    up an inventory and take some photos. Put them
                    up on such a
                    site like this one (that is a hint to post hem
                    here) and see
                    if someone will make you an offer for them. Of
                    course, while
                    you can post the data here, any negotiations
                    will have to
                    take place off list.
                     
                    Your
                    other choice is determine what you have and
                    check on eBay to
                    see what, if anything, they are selling for.
                    This will take
                    some research and you cannot go by the asking
                    prices for the
                    kits. Yu have to check for completed or sold
                    auctions to see
                    what they really are selling for. What most of
                    the people
                    who sell there have a very rosey idea of what
                    these kits are
                    worth.
                     
                    Jo!

                    hn Hagen
                     




                    Just as a bit of a follow-up to this.  Unbuilt kits
                    will definiteley
                    demand a much higher price than assembled or partially
                    assembled
                    kits.  Just one specific example, I can usually
                    find unbuilt Silver
                    Streak refrigerator car kits for around $ 10.00 on
                    eBay.   Assembled
                    ones at swap meets go for around $ 4.00 where you can
                    see what
                    you're getting.  The last assembled one I
                    got  on eBay I got for
                    TWENTY FIVE CENTS 'cause no one else even wanted to
                    bid.



                    Like anything else, you can look at all the catalogs,
                    buyer's
                    guides, eBay auctions, whatever you want.  The TRUE
                    value is exactly
                    what somebody's willing to pay for it.



                    That said, I want to reemphasize what John said, get
                    good pictures
                    and decent descriptions.  Post them in an album
                    here (let us know
                    when you do) and we'll be happy to help you
                    out.  If you're not sure
                    what a model is, give us a couple GOOD pictures,
                    especially sides,
                    ends and underbody, and someone here will be sure to be
                    able tell
                    you exactly what it is that you have.



                    Don



                    --
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21589 From: seekingho Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Need Help

                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.

                    http://www.hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=identification

                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.

                     

                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21590 From: Joel Holmes Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hi Don,

                    I think these cars are form the 1940's. I think you there are several
                    manufactures, Varney, Globe, Lehigh Models, Possible Silver Streak and
                    maybe other I am not familiar with. I do not have any of these cars as I
                    started modeling in 1952 on a very limited budget. I am not positive
                    about any of the cars without looking at the actual model.

                    Joel Holmes

                    > First off Hello everyone. It has been sometime since I have visited
                    > Vintage HO. I must say the format has certainly changed. I was recently
                    > asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train
                    > Cars. I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made
                    > these train cars.
                    > http://www.hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=identification
                    > http://www.hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=identification
                    > I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this
                    > new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group. Will
                    > try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.
                    >
                    > Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary". Time
                    > sure fly's. A Job well done Don!
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21591 From: dwaite2000 Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    A few I can idnetify:

                    - B&O Hopper - Megow
                    - PRR Hopper - Megow
                    - Morells Reefer - Lockhart/Laconia
                    - DICX 135 Reefer - Lockhart/Laconia
                    - GN Flat - Varney
                    - L&N Flat - Red Ball/Comet
                    - Milw Flat - Red Ball
                    - B&O Caboose - Megow
                    - GTW DD Box - Red Ball/Comet

                    I'll try to identify some more when I have time.

                    Dick
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21592 From: erieberk Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hello Ken,

                    I'll I.D. these cars for you, first by matching their construction
                    materials to the manufacturer and then by matching the reporting numbers. I notice
                    the pics aren't in order, and I also notice that there are two pic
                    descriptions having the #3, although the second one of these will indicate "4" when
                    you put your cursor over it.

                    So, starting with #10 (I'm not familiar with #1 and the similar #'s 8 & 9);

                    10 Texaco tank car -- Gilbert
                    11 Gulf tank car -- Megow
                    13 B&O hopper -- Megow
                    14 PRR hopper -- Megow
                    15 NKP hopper -- Megow
                    16 Armour reefer -- Red Ball
                    18 Morrell's Pride -- Lockhart
                    19 Depressed flat car, cast -- Devore
                    2 DICX reefer -- Lockhart
                    20 GN flat car -- Varney - post-War
                    21 L&N flat car -- Comet
                    23 IC flat car -- Megow
                    25 B&O caboose -- Megow
                    3 GTW automobile car -- Comet
                    4 Wabash automobile car -- Comet
                    5 SSW automobile car -- Varney - post-War
                    6 ART reefer -- Megow
                    7 NWX reefer -- Megow

                    Still working on a couple in addition to the three with the photo ends.

                    Ray Wetzel
                    </HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21593 From: dwaite2000 Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    The #1 car is a Varney.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21594 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    On 11/3/2013 12:58 PM, seekingho@... wrote:

                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.

                    http://www.hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=identification

                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.

                     

                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!


                    Thank you.

                    The two 40' auto cars you think are Comet, as far as I know ARE.  I have the same two cars in my collection.

                    As far as the format, that's Yahoo screwing up a good thing.  If you try and type in the URL leaving out the "Neu" in the address bar you MAY get the old format back.
                    It's kind of a hit or miss thing.  For some of us (myself included fortunately), the new format hasn't shown up yet so we still see the old page.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21595 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Don, the Gilbert HO Texaco tanker looks to be from the 38 to 39 era. If the couplers are on the chassis and not on the trucks it would be the first HO trains made.
                    Dom



                    From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 6:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     
                    On 11/3/2013 12:58 PM, seekingho@... wrote:
                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.
                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.
                     
                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!

                    Thank you.

                    The two 40' auto cars you think are Comet, as far as I know ARE.  I have the same two cars in my collection.

                    As far as the format, that's Yahoo screwing up a good thing.  If you try and type in the URL leaving out the "Neu" in the address bar you MAY get the old format back.
                    It's kind of a hit or miss thing.  For some of us (myself included fortunately), the new format hasn't shown up yet so we still see the old page.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21596 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Looking again, #23 may be another pre war Gilbert HO item. If it's cast with what looks like four holes at the corners it may be Gilbert HO. It would have been carrying a load of three trucks. The same trucks as it's rolling on now. Look to see if there were three threaded holes down the center of the car. If it has decals that would describe it as a kit from Gilbert HO.
                    Dom


                    From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 6:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     
                    On 11/3/2013 12:58 PM, seekingho@... wrote:
                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.
                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.
                     
                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!

                    Thank you.

                    The two 40' auto cars you think are Comet, as far as I know ARE.  I have the same two cars in my collection.

                    As far as the format, that's Yahoo screwing up a good thing.  If you try and type in the URL leaving out the "Neu" in the address bar you MAY get the old format back.
                    It's kind of a hit or miss thing.  For some of us (myself included fortunately), the new format hasn't shown up yet so we still see the old page.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21597 From: seekingho Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help

                    Thank You everyone for the help.  It has saved me hours of time researching them.  I try to keep the HOseeker Website as accurate as possible and sometimes I am not sure who makes these trains.  I will categorize and move the trains that have been identified to their appropriate galleries.  This will leave just the unidentified trains in the present Gallery. 

                     

                    I want to say hello to Jim H and to wish him the best.

                     

                    Once again Thank You

                    Larry

                     

                     

                     



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:

                    Looking again, #23 may be another pre war Gilbert HO item. If it's cast with what looks like four holes at the corners it may be Gilbert HO. It would have been carrying a load of three trucks. The same trucks as it's rolling on now. Look to see if there were three threaded holes down the center of the car. If it has decals that would describe it as a kit from Gilbert HO.
                    Dom

                    From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 6:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     
                    On 11/3/2013 12:58 PM, seekingho@... wrote:
                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.
                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.
                     
                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!

                    Thank you.

                    The two 40' auto cars you think are Comet, as far as I know ARE.  I have the same two cars in my collection.

                    As far as the format, that's Yahoo screwing up a good thing.  If you try and type in the URL leaving out the "Neu" in the address bar you MAY get the old format back.
                    It's kind of a hit or miss thing.  For some of us (myself included fortunately), the new format hasn't shown up yet so we still see the old page.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21598 From: erieberk Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Dom,

                    You may be right on the #23 being a Gilbert. Might just be my computer,
                    but I just now went up on that HOSeeker link that Ken supplied for his list
                    and got only eight of the cars. Tried three different times, but still can
                    get only eight cars, so I can't get back to it to double-check #23. Might be
                    another grand Yahoo Neo stunt that eliminated the other 16 or so cars?

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21599 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help

                    Hi Ray,

                     

                    Larry said he will move the photos to the correct model company location now that he has them identified.  So you will see less cars as time moves on.

                     

                    Take care,

                     

                    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

                    https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

                     


                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@...
                    Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:14 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     

                     

                    Dom,

                    You may be right on the #23 being a Gilbert. Might just be my computer,
                    but I just now went up on that HOSeeker link that Ken supplied for his list
                    and got only eight of the cars. Tried three different times, but still can
                    get only eight cars, so I can't get back to it to double-check #23. Might be
                    another grand Yahoo Neo stunt that eliminated the other 16 or so cars?

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21600 From: seekingho Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help

                    You can view 23 in the identification album now.  Guess I moved it too quickly.

                     

                    Larry 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Hi Ray,

                     

                    Larry said he will move the photos to the correct model company location now that he has them identified.  So you will see less cars as time moves on.

                     

                    Take care,

                     

                    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

                    https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@...
                    Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:14 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     

                     

                    Dom,

                    You may be right on the #23 being a Gilbert. Might just be my computer,
                    but I just now went up on that HOSeeker link that Ken supplied for his list
                    and got only eight of the cars. Tried three different times, but still can
                    get only eight cars, so I can't get back to it to double-check #23. Might be
                    another grand Yahoo Neo stunt that eliminated the other 16 or so cars?

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21601 From: Dale Smith Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    I would agree with Dom on number 23.  For examples of the Gilbert cars go to:

                    http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/216.htm
                    and
                    http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/119.htm

                    for documented cars for comparison.  Both were also offered in kit form, with lettering decals.

                    Dale Smith
                    On 11/3/2013 4:10 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                     
                    Looking again, #23 may be another pre war Gilbert HO item. If it's cast with what looks like four holes at the corners it may be Gilbert HO. It would have been carrying a load of three trucks. The same trucks as it's rolling on now. Look to see if there were three threaded holes down the center of the car. If it has decals that would describe it as a kit from Gilbert HO.
                    Dom


                    From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 6:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     
                    On 11/3/2013 12:58 PM, seekingho@... wrote:
                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.
                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.
                     
                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!

                    Thank you.

                    The two 40' auto cars you think are Comet, as far as I know ARE.  I have the same two cars in my collection.

                    As far as the format, that's Yahoo screwing up a good thing.  If you try and type in the URL leaving out the "Neu" in the address bar you MAY get the old format back.
                    It's kind of a hit or miss thing.  For some of us (myself included fortunately), the new format hasn't shown up yet so we still see the old page.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21602 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hi All,

                    I enjoyed looking at the HOseeker Gallery.  I have many vintage HO cars not pictured; Globe, Thomas, maybe more.  I can arrange for pictures of many items; if desired.

                    You can contact me directly with picture requirements. 

                    Garrett (Garry) Spear


                    On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:41 AM, <seekingho@...> wrote:
                     

                    Thank You everyone for the help.  It has saved me hours of time researching them.  I try to keep the HOseeker Website as accurate as possible and sometimes I am not sure who makes these trains.  I will categorize and move the trains that have been identified to their appropriate galleries.  This will leave just the unidentified trains in the present Gallery. 

                     

                    I want to say hello to Jim H and to wish him the best.

                     

                    Once again Thank You

                    Larry

                     

                     

                     



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:

                    Looking again, #23 may be another pre war Gilbert HO item. If it's cast with what looks like four holes at the corners it may be Gilbert HO. It would have been carrying a load of three trucks. The same trucks as it's rolling on now. Look to see if there were three threaded holes down the center of the car. If it has decals that would describe it as a kit from Gilbert HO.
                    Dom

                    From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 6:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     
                    On 11/3/2013 12:58 PM, seekingho@... wrote:
                    First off Hello everyone.  It has been sometime since I have visited Vintage HO.  I must say the format has certainly changed.  I was recently asked at the HOseeker website to help identify some very old HO Train Cars.  I was hoping that some of the members here might know who made these train cars.
                    I tried to add a photo album of the unknown train cars here but with this new format I could not figure out how to add pictures to the group.  Will try and figure it out the photo posting later when I have more time.
                     
                    Just a note "Vintage HO is coming up on it's tenth anniversary".  Time sure fly's.  A Job well done Don!

                    Thank you.

                    The two 40' auto cars you think are Comet, as far as I know ARE.  I have the same two cars in my collection.

                    As far as the format, that's Yahoo screwing up a good thing.  If you try and type in the URL leaving out the "Neu" in the address bar you MAY get the old format back.
                    It's kind of a hit or miss thing.  For some of us (myself included fortunately), the new format hasn't shown up yet so we still see the old page.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21603 From: Jim Waterman Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Wow – great job, Dick.
                     
                    Jim Waterman
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21604 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Your sounding like a conspiracy theorist Ray!!
                    Dom



                    From: "erieberk@..." <erieberk@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 11:14 AM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need Help

                     
                    Dom,

                    You may be right on the #23 being a Gilbert. Might just be my computer,
                    but I just now went up on that HOSeeker link that Ken supplied for his list
                    and got only eight of the cars. Tried three different times, but still can
                    get only eight cars, so I can't get back to it to double-check #23. Might be
                    another grand Yahoo Neo stunt that eliminated the other 16 or so cars?

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21605 From: bowtiefan47 Date: 11/6/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.

                    Now to answer some questions.
                    -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.

                    Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    Ken
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21606 From: Sean Naylor Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive
                    Hello Everyone!

                    I wanted to share a recent find. Last week i purchased a poorly listed locomotive on eBay. It cam with a shell that I did not recognize, but a chassis that I did (only after purchasing it). The engine came yesterday and I was pleased to find that what I had thought it was was correct. It was the chassis to a Walthers Milw. 4-6-4 Baltic Steam Locomotive.  The shell on the other hand, although similar in some ways, probably was a scratch build project and not a Baltic shell. Nicely done however and worthy of a project in it's own right. 

                    Earlier this year I purchased a lot of junk parts and in it was a brass shell with minimal details and was not complete, but it did have the cab. From that cab and it's large open windows, I was pretty sure it was the shell of a Walthers Baltic, but with no chassis and only a few scans of pictures and pictures saved from a listing that I bid on last year to go on, I had not way to be 100% sure. 

                    When it came yesterday and I had time to sit down and look at it, I went to my pile of parts where I had stored the shell and quickly mated the shell to the new chassis. It was then that I was sure at what I had. 

                    Unfortunately, it is missing the tender, trailing truck, smoke stack and motor. Ironically, I do have the pilot truck. A few years back, I purchased a custom built northern 4-8-4 scratch built / kit bash chassis with an old pilot truck on it. After studying the photos, I am confident this is the pilot truck to the Baltic. Unfortunately, I like this chassis and hate to scavenge the part from it. 

                    Here are the photos:

                    Baltic:

                    Northern chassis with truck:

                     


                    I would greatly enjoy any discussion on this engine and any additional information on it anyone might have. Whwn was this locomotive produced and possibly any other history on it. 

                    I know Jim Heckard has been seeking this engine for some time and if his health were not failing him, I would be surely packing it up and sending it to his door. I had been on the hunt for one for him ever since he told me about the engine.  Given his current situation however, I don't think sending this to him would be the right thing to do.
                     
                    Sean


                    "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


                    On Monday, September 7, 2009 9:58 AM, the_plainsman <the_plainsman@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hi Jim H., Ray F.W. and All,

                    The 1938 catalog adds some information on the 2 rail and 3 rail versions. "When supplied for two rail operation, the wheels are insulated by a special process developed by ourselves" but does not specifically identify the process. However, under the heading that appears lower on the 1938 catalog page titled "Conversion Kit for HO Baltic Locomotives" it lists a kit which included a set of insulated wheelsets for pilot, trailing and tender trucks as well as the drivers, and states the wheels are insulated on one side and at the axle.

                    That would seem to me to be different from the inherent insulation of the Tenite plastic centered drivers seemingly first mentioned in the 1940 catalog. (Hope to find 1939 and 1937 catalogs or copies soon!)

                    But Jim, you can read the pages in full context when you get them and see if you agree. Ray, I will gladly make a set of copies for you at the same time if you want. And I hope to either get my scanner working or get a new one soon, as HOSeeker should have these brief catalogs on view for all.

                    I suspect that with all of the running changes Walthers talks about in the catalog listings like "early motor vs. Varney motor" and frame later including ash pan; plus the several different 2 and 3 rail versions and low production, that no two models found will be exactly alike and I agree that although I'd like two rail if I were in the market for one of these beauties, I would not pass up three rail.

                    W Jay W.

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@... > wrote:
                    >
                    > Didn't know they came in 2 and 3 rail versions. While I would definitely like to have the 2 rail so I could run it I would not pass up the 3 rail version. Adding what in effect would be a shelf model not the worst thing for me.
                    >
                    > As a collector of vintage items first, but building a new platform to run them, I want three major specific pieces to add to my HO collection. The Walthers Baltic is one of them.
                    >
                    > I feel there will not be many available to buy so I would like to at least have one. Due to a very limited amount of these produced, much less then the Penn Line Crusader, and since there are few sales transactions not many know the importance of this engine to HO vintage history. Actually I'm started to think that my best chance will be one labeled wrong or in the worked needed to basket case variety. And as more learn about this engine being out there make less chances to find one.
                    >
                    > Thanks as usual for the responses to my question.
                    > Jim H
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: erieberk@...
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                    > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:11 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] information wanted
                    >
                    >
                    > Jim, Keep in mind, when searching for a Taylor/Walthers Baltic (unless you don't mind a possible permanent shelf display only), that these engines were offered in both two-rail and three-rail versions -- the same as any other pre-War engines of the time. It may be very tempting to jump on the first Baltic you see, shelling out $500 or so, but of little use except as a display model if it's for three-rail operation (unless you plan to install that third rail). If it were me, I know I'd prefer to be able to run it, but I know too that it would be excrucionarily hard to pass one up if it turned out to be for three rail operation. It might appear that it was at the time when the Tenite drivers were introduced, that the two-rail versions came out, since they would have the needed insulation. Prior to that time, the drivers wouldn't need insulation when running via 3-rail. Ray F.W.
                    >



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21607 From: Sean Naylor Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hi Ken,

                    First off, pictures are a must. If you can not figure out how to email them, then maybe post them to a no-line website like flickr and share a link. 

                    Like here:

                     
                    Sean


                    "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


                    On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:42 PM, bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.

                    Now to answer some questions.
                    -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.

                    Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    Ken



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21608 From: Sean Naylor Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Ok... I feel like a fool. Sorry Ken, Saw you already did that on HO seeker and others have already helped you out. This new format for Yahoo mail is confusing for sure!
                     
                    Sean


                    "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


                    On , Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:
                    Hi Ken,

                    First off, pictures are a must. If you can not figure out how to email them, then maybe post them to a no-line website like flickr and share a link. 

                    Like here:

                     
                    Sean


                    "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


                    On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:42 PM, bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.

                    Now to answer some questions.
                    -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.

                    Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    Ken





                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21609 From: roger_aultman Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive
                    Attachments :
                    --
                    I have a Walthers baltic that was purchased nearly 20 years ago. It was obtained from the second owner who had purchased it from the person that assembled it but did not motorize it. It appears to have rim insulated cast drivers. When motortized a japanese open frame motor was used with a turned brass shaft extension, this tends to bend when operated. The original worm gear wore out and a Mantua gear was fitted also a mantua worm to the motor.
                    The loco is in good condition except for the missing bell. Pix attached.
                    Roger Aultman


                    -- Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:

                    =============
                    Hello Everyone!

                    I wanted to share a recent find. Last week i purchased a poorly listed locomotive on eBay. It cam with a shell that I did not recognize, but a chassis that I did (only after purchasing it). The engine came yesterday and I was pleased to find that what I had thought it was was correct. It was the chassis to a Walthers Milw. 4-6-4 Baltic Steam Locomotive.  The shell on the other hand, although similar in some ways, probably was a scratch build project and not a Baltic shell. Nicely done however and worthy of a project in it's own right. 

                    Earlier this year I purchased a lot of junk parts and in it was a brass shell with minimal details and was not complete, but it did have the cab. From that cab and it's large open windows, I was pretty sure it was the shell of a Walthers Baltic, but with no chassis and only a few scans of pictures and pictures saved from a listing that I bid on last year to go on, I had not way to be 100% sure. 

                    When it came yesterday and I had time to sit down and look at it, I went to my pile of parts where I had stored the shell and quickly mated the shell to the new chassis. It was then that I was sure at what I had. 

                    Unfortunately, it is missing the tender, trailing truck, smoke stack and motor. Ironically, I do have the pilot truck. A few years back, I purchased a custom built northern 4-8-4 scratch built / kit bash chassis with an old pilot truck on it. After studying the photos, I am confident this is the pilot truck to the Baltic. Unfortunately, I like this chassis and hate to scavenge the part from it. 

                    Here are the photos:

                    Baltic:
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157633222842320/


                    Northern chassis with truck:

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4285296553/in/set-72157623214827759/

                     
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286037976/in/set-72157623214827759/

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286038114/in/set-72157623214827759/

                    I would greatly enjoy any discussion on this engine and any additional information on it anyone might have. Whwn was this locomotive produced and possibly any other history on it. 

                    I know Jim Heckard has been seeking this engine for some time and if his health were not failing him, I would be surely packing it up and sending it to his door. I had been on the hunt for one for him ever since he told me about the engine.  Given his current situation however, I don't think sending this to him would be the right thing to do.
                     
                    Sean


                    "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!



                    On Monday, September 7, 2009 9:58 AM, the_plainsman <the_plainsman@...> wrote:

                     
                    Hi Jim H., Ray F.W. and All,

                    The 1938 catalog adds some information on the 2 rail and 3 rail versions. "When supplied for two rail operation, the wheels are insulated by a special process developed by ourselves" but does not specifically identify the process. However, under the heading that appears lower on the 1938 catalog page titled "Conversion Kit for HO Baltic Locomotives" it lists a kit which included a set of insulated wheelsets for pilot, trailing and tender trucks as well as the drivers, and states the wheels are insulated on one side and at the axle.

                    That would seem to me to be different from the inherent insulation of the Tenite plastic centered drivers seemingly first mentioned in the 1940 catalog. (Hope to find 1939 and 1937 catalogs or copies soon!)

                    But Jim, you can read the pages in full context when you get them and see if you agree. Ray, I will gladly make a set of copies for you at the same time if you want. And I hope to either get my scanner working or get a new one soon, as HOSeeker should have these brief catalogs on view for all.

                    I suspect that with all of the running changes Walthers talks about in the catalog listings like "early motor vs. Varney motor" and frame later including ash pan; plus the several different 2 and 3 rail versions and low production, that no two models found will be exactly alike and I agree that although I'd like two rail if I were in the market for one of these beauties, I would not pass up three rail.

                    W Jay W.

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@... > wrote:
                    >
                    > Didn't know they came in 2 and 3 rail versions. While I would definitely like to have the 2 rail so I could run it I would not pass up the 3 rail version. Adding what in effect would be a shelf model not the worst thing for me.
                    >
                    > As a collector of vintage items first, but building a new platform to run them, I want three major specific pieces to add to my HO collection. The Walthers Baltic is one of them.
                    >
                    > I feel there will not be many available to buy so I would like to at least have one. Due to a very limited amount of these produced, much less then the Penn Line Crusader, and since there are few sales transactions not many know the importance of this engine to HO vintage history. Actually I'm started to think that my best chance will be one labeled wrong or in the worked needed to basket case variety. And as more learn about this engine being out there make less chances to find one.
                    >
                    > Thanks as usual for the responses to my question.
                    > Jim H
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: erieberk@...
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                    > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:11 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] information wanted
                    >
                    >
                    > Jim, Keep in mind, when searching for a Taylor/Walthers Baltic (unless you don't mind a possible permanent shelf display only), that these engines were offered in both two-rail and three-rail versions -- the same as any other pre-War engines of the time. It may be very tempting to jump on the first Baltic you see, shelling out $500 or so, but of little use except as a display model if it's for three-rail operation (unless you plan to install that third rail). If it were me, I know I'd prefer to be able to run it, but I know too that it would be excrucionarily hard to pass one up if it turned out to be for three rail operation. It might appear that it was at the time when the Tenite drivers were introduced, that the two-rail versions came out, since they would have the needed insulation. Prior to that time, the drivers wouldn't need insulation when running via 3-rail. Ray F.W.
                    >
                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21610 From: John H Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive
                    Nice looking engine Roger.

                    Those old lumps of cast iron look pretty darn good from a couple of feet away. Oh heck yes Asian brass and modern injection molding looks better, particularly when viewed close up but for the era in which these were manufactured they were superb and not to shabby today. I know I'd be thrilled to own one.

                    John Hagen

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <raul@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > I have a Walthers baltic that was purchased nearly 20 years ago. It was obtained from the second owner who had purchased it from the person that assembled it but did not motorize it. It appears to have rim insulated cast drivers. When motortized a japanese open frame motor was used with a turned brass shaft extension, this tends to bend when operated. The original worm gear wore out and a Mantua gear was fitted also a mantua worm to the motor.
                    > The loco is in good condition except for the missing bell. Pix attached.
                    > Roger Aultman
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21611 From: roger_aultman Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive
                    --
                    Actually John the boiler, cab asnd tender shell appear to be sheet brass. I had a 40's Walthers catalog that referenced a pre-war baltic kit that was described as more difficult to build. Roger Aultman


                    - John H <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                    =============
                    Nice looking engine Roger.

                    Those old lumps of cast iron look pretty darn good from a couple of feet away. Oh heck yes Asian brass and modern injection molding looks better, particularly when viewed close up but for the era in which these were manufactured they were superb and not to shabby today. I know I'd be thrilled to own one.

                    John Hagen
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21612 From: John Hagen Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive

                    Hmm,

                     

                    That’s one on me. I was unaware that Walthers ever made sheet brass anything.

                     

                    Oh well, live and learn.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@...
                    Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 3:15 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: John H
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive

                     

                     


                    --
                    Actually John the boiler, cab asnd tender shell appear to be sheet brass. I had a 40's Walthers catalog that referenced a pre-war baltic kit that was described as more difficult to build. Roger Aultman

                    - John H <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                    =============
                    Nice looking engine Roger.

                    Those old lumps of cast iron look pretty darn good from a couple of feet away. Oh heck yes Asian brass and modern injection molding looks better, particularly when viewed close up but for the era in which these were manufactured they were superb and not to shabby today. I know I'd be thrilled to own one.

                    John Hagen

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21613 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    Dominic



                    From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help

                     
                    Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.

                    Now to answer some questions.
                    -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.

                    Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    Ken



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21614 From: cwrailman Date: 11/7/2013
                    Subject: Low cost Mabuchi Flat Can motor performance.

                    A couple of you wrote to me after my 05/23/2013 blog on the Mabuchi motor asking how it performed in a locomotive.  I now have the answer to that question.  If you were interested, check out The latest Project to come out of the California Western Loco and Car Rebuild shops While not a vintage kit loco, the first of these ATSF locomotives were imported in the mid 1950’s.   Check out this project and click on the last image to see how this remotored locomotive runs with that budget minded motor installed.  Click on the middle image to download a copy of the data sheet to see if this motor may be appropriate for your next project.

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: http://www.cwrailman.com/

                    Facebook: CWRailman 

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21615 From: bowtiefan47 Date: 11/9/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Dominic
                    The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.

                    No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!

                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    >
                    > Now to answer some questions.
                    > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > Ken
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21616 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/9/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Ken, go ahead I'd love to hear. We have a few ourselves. There's the 2011 Camaro SS. The daily 03 trailblazer. The 52 Bel Air done in a traditional way. The 51 convertible done in a more 60s way. The 51 AD being moved into the house garage maybe tomorrow. It's a project to get started on. Okay. I'm done!
                    Dom



                    From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:59 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help

                     
                    Dominic
                    The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.

                    No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!

                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    >
                    > Now to answer some questions.
                    > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > Ken
                    >



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21617 From: bowtiefan47 Date: 11/12/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Dom
                    My computer is down, so I have to sneak in and use my wife's before she gets up, so I'm slow on replies. My wife bought one of the first new Camaro convertibles. (SS) Chevy bought it back after a total of 58 days in the shop trying to get the top right. Rather than hijack this thread, go here for all our cars and more. http://www.picturetrail.com/ken58
                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ken, go ahead I'd love to hear. We have a few ourselves. There's the 2011 Camaro SS. The daily 03 trailblazer. The 52 Bel Air done in a traditional way. The 51 convertible done in a more 60s way. The 51 AD being moved into the house garage maybe tomorrow. It's a project to get started on. Okay. I'm done!
                    > Dom
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:59 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Dominic
                    > The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.
                    >
                    > No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!
                    >
                    > Ken
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > > Dominic
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@>
                    > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    > >
                    > > Now to answer some questions.
                    > > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > > Ken
                    > >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21618 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/12/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Ken, my hat's off to you and Marci.I don't know where to start. I've always said there will be no cars other than Chevys in my driveway. I've pretty much kept to that despite a couple of other GM products such as a 87 S-15 Jimmy and an 84 Delta 88. Now with every Bow Tie I looked at and said yeah I like that, I open the next image and have to say it again. I'm an early 50s Chevy guy, so , I love the 57 and 61 Vettes. The 54 convertible is another that screams cool. I've just turned 59 this past September and I've told my wife Jeanne, I need to own my first Corvette by 60! She got her Camaro now it's my turn. But, with the 51 AD in the garage now, it may be a little longer for the Vette. I dig the 54 vert. The 4 door 57 Hard Top is a rather scarce but neat car. I could go on and on! The 235 with the Fentons and heat box is a rare and high priced item. I've been after a set for my 52 Bel Air. I have water heat to the Fentons now and always wanted to have a set with the stove box. I'll add a few pics of our toys for you. Thanks for the trip through Chevy wonderland Ken,
                    Dominic



                    From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:27 AM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help

                     
                    Dom
                    My computer is down, so I have to sneak in and use my wife's before she gets up, so I'm slow on replies. My wife bought one of the first new Camaro convertibles. (SS) Chevy bought it back after a total of 58 days in the shop trying to get the top right. Rather than hijack this thread, go here for all our cars and more. http://www.picturetrail.com/ken58
                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ken, go ahead I'd love to hear. We have a few ourselves. There's the 2011 Camaro SS. The daily 03 trailblazer. The 52 Bel Air done in a traditional way. The 51 convertible done in a more 60s way. The 51 AD being moved into the house garage maybe tomorrow. It's a project to get started on. Okay. I'm done!
                    > Dom
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:59 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Dominic
                    > The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.
                    >
                    > No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!
                    >
                    > Ken
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > > Dominic
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@>
                    > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    > >
                    > > Now to answer some questions.
                    > > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > > Ken
                    > >
                    >



                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21619 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 11/12/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help [6 Attachments]- CARS
                    You guys and the TCAMG have surely been hitting close to me today.  The first car I ever drove was a '52 Chev. 2DHT, like your bronze and white but it had the skirts.  It was the same green as your '51, with a white top.  The TCAMG had a model of my '48 Ford 2D Coach that was bored, shaved, lowered, had a floor shift and had full skirts.  She wasn't fast but she would get to top speed quickly.
                    Thanks for the memories...
                    Happy railroading...
                    Don Staton in VA.
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 11/12/2013 7:06 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                     
                    Ken, my hat's off to you and Marci.I don't know where to start. I've always said there will be no cars other than Chevys in my driveway. I've pretty much kept to that despite a couple of other GM products such as a 87 S-15 Jimmy and an 84 Delta 88. Now with every Bow Tie I looked at and said yeah I like that, I open the next image and have to say it again. I'm an early 50s Chevy guy, so , I love the 57 and 61 Vettes. The 54 convertible is another that screams cool. I've just turned 59 this past September and I've told my wife Jeanne, I need to own my first Corvette by 60! She got her Camaro now it's my turn. But, with the 51 AD in the garage now, it may be a little longer for the Vette. I dig the 54 vert. The 4 door 57 Hard Top is a rather scarce but neat car. I could go on and on! The 235 with the Fentons and heat box is a rare and high priced item. I've been after a set for my 52 Bel Air. I have water heat to the Fentons now and always wanted to have a set with the stove box. I'll add a few pics of our toys for you. Thanks for the trip through Chevy wonderland Ken,
                    Dominic

                    [SNIPPED]




                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21620 From: seekingho Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help

                    This picture and description which was donated to the HOseeker Website by Jim H. may help with your question about the Gilbert/American Flyer Pre-War 4-6-4. #5318

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fgilbert-american-flyer&image=American-Flyer-Pre-War-Hudson-AC-Motor-1938-39.jpg

                     

                    Larry



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <1kenalbers@...> wrote:

                    Dominic
                    The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.

                    No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!

                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    >
                    > Now to answer some questions.
                    > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > Ken
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21621 From: Dale Smith Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    In looking at this photo, it appears that this loco has the more detailed boiler casting but the thing that stands out are the wheels with their wider rim area.   If those are the original wheels, are they an example of the all bakelite wheels used in early models of the catalog number 200 or an example of the diecast wheel with the plastic separator?  The only photo I have seen of similar wheels is of a junk chassis in Gary Klein's guide to Gilbert HO and it is said to be diecast wheel, which he says are rarely found in good shape.  If those are the diecast wheels, that would make Jim's loco highly desirable.  Dom, what are your thoughts on this?  By the way, all the prewar Gilbert Hudsons were labeled with a prototype number 5318, regardless of catalog number, as were 1950 and earlier post war models. 

                    I am in the process of trying to demystify the identification of prewar Gilbert Hudsons on my website, www.gilbertho.org by including photos of inside components that are key to identifying these locomotives. (model number 200 and 112) What is left to be added are photos of the reverse units which may be of two different types, and photos of confirmed all bakelite as well as die cast drivers.

                    Dale Smith
                    www.gilbertho.org


                    On 11/13/2013 8:17 AM, seekingho@... wrote:
                     

                    This picture and description which was donated to the HOseeker Website by Jim H. may help with your question about the Gilbert/American Flyer Pre-War 4-6-4. #5318

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fgilbert-american-flyer&image=American-Flyer-Pre-War-Hudson-AC-Motor-1938-39.jpg

                     

                    Larry



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <1kenalbers@...> wrote:

                    Dominic
                    The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.

                    No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!

                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    >
                    > Now to answer some questions.
                    > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > Ken
                    >

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21622 From: seekingho Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: information wanted

                    Hello Jim

                     

                    Glad to see you on line and still collecting the Rare HO.  Here is an advertisement from an old Polk's Catalog for the Walthers 4-6-4 Baltic.  The 1943 and 1944 ads are identical.

                     

                    http://www.hoseeker.org/polks/polkscatalog1943pg13.jpg

                    http://www.hoseeker.org/polks/polkscatalog1944pg08.jpg

                     

                    Larry



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                    Hmm,

                     

                    That’s one on me. I was unaware that Walthers ever made sheet brass anything.

                     

                    Oh well, live and learn.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@...
                    Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 3:15 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: John H
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers brass 4-6-4 MILW Baltic Steam locomotive

                     

                     


                    --
                    Actually John the boiler, cab asnd tender shell appear to be sheet brass. I had a 40's Walthers catalog that referenced a pre-war baltic kit that was described as more difficult to build. Roger Aultman

                    - John H <sprinthag@...> wrote:

                    =============
                    Nice looking engine Roger.

                    Those old lumps of cast iron look pretty darn good from a couple of feet away. Oh heck yes Asian brass and modern injection molding looks better, particularly when viewed close up but for the era in which these were manufactured they were superb and not to shabby today. I know I'd be thrilled to own one.

                    John Hagen

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21623 From: bowtiefan47 Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Dom,
                    I fell into those Fentons. A friend saw an ad for a set that was close to me so I checked it out. I knew nothing about them, I just wanted some Fentons and he wanted $75, so I said paid him. I didn't learn until several months later that they were worth several hundred dollars!
                    Nice old hard to find Chevys. Are you on Chevytalk? If not, check it out.
                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ken, my hat's off to you and Marci.I don't know where to start. I've always said there will be no cars other than Chevys in my driveway. I've pretty much kept to that despite a couple of other GM products such as a 87 S-15 Jimmy and an 84 Delta 88. Now with every Bow Tie I looked at and said yeah I like that, I open the next image and have to say it again. I'm an early 50s Chevy guy, so , I love the 57 and 61 Vettes. The 54 convertible is another that screams cool. I've just turned 59 this past September and I've told my wife Jeanne, I need to own my first Corvette by 60! She got her Camaro now it's my turn. But, with the 51 AD in the garage now, it may be a little longer for the Vette. I dig the 54 vert. The 4 door 57 Hard Top is a rather scarce but neat car. I could go on and on! The 235 with the Fentons and heat box is a rare and high priced item. I've been after a set for my 52 Bel Air. I have water heat to the Fentons now and always wanted to have a
                    > set with the stove box. I'll add a few pics of our toys for you. Thanks for the trip through Chevy wonderland Ken,
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:27 AM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Dom
                    > My computer is down, so I have to sneak in and use my wife's before she gets up, so I'm slow on replies. My wife bought one of the first new Camaro convertibles. (SS) Chevy bought it back after a total of 58 days in the shop trying to get the top right. Rather than hijack this thread, go here for all our cars and more. http://www.picturetrail.com/ken58
                    > Ken
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Ken, go ahead I'd love to hear. We have a few ourselves. There's the 2011 Camaro SS. The daily 03 trailblazer. The 52 Bel Air done in a traditional way. The 51 convertible done in a more 60s way. The 51 AD being moved into the house garage maybe tomorrow. It's a project to get started on. Okay. I'm done!
                    > > Dom
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@>
                    > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:59 PM
                    > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > Dominic
                    > > The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.
                    > >
                    > > No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!
                    > >
                    > > Ken
                    > >
                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > > > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > > > Dominic
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ________________________________
                    > > > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@>
                    > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >  
                    > > > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    > > >
                    > > > Now to answer some questions.
                    > > > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > > > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > > > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > > > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > > > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > > > Ken
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21624 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Hi Larry, the picture you've linked to is a 40 to 41 engine. The windows on the cab is one tell tale sign. It also shows die cast drivers which are rather scarce. Mostly, I believe, because they would crumble apart.
                    Dominic



                    From: "seekingho@..." <seekingho@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:17 AM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] RE: Re: Need Help

                     
                    This picture and description which was donated to the HOseeker Website by Jim H. may help with your question about the Gilbert/American Flyer Pre-War 4-6-4. #5318
                     
                    Larry


                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <1kenalbers@...> wrote:

                    Dominic
                    The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.

                    No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!

                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    >
                    > Now to answer some questions.
                    > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > Ken
                    >


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21625 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Dale, your right about the drivers on that engine. They are the die cast version. The number 5318 is the only number I've seen on the factory engines. Some post war engines did come without numbers on the cab sides. In my experience they are just as common as the numbered version. There is one more item to help identify the post war engines. You will see a wide spacing between the names on the tenders sides. It seems only the post war 47 to 50 tenders are that way. You'll see     New  York  Central    instead of a closer   New York Central   spacing as found on the pre war and the 443 446 and so on. 
                    Dom


                    From: Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RE: Re: Need Help

                     
                    In looking at this photo, it appears that this loco has the more detailed boiler casting but the thing that stands out are the wheels with their wider rim area.   If those are the original wheels, are they an example of the all bakelite wheels used in early models of the catalog number 200 or an example of the diecast wheel with the plastic separator?  The only photo I have seen of similar wheels is of a junk chassis in Gary Klein's guide to Gilbert HO and it is said to be diecast wheel, which he says are rarely found in good shape.  If those are the diecast wheels, that would make Jim's loco highly desirable.  Dom, what are your thoughts on this?  By the way, all the prewar Gilbert Hudsons were labeled with a prototype number 5318, regardless of catalog number, as were 1950 and earlier post war models. 

                    I am in the process of trying to demystify the identification of prewar Gilbert Hudsons on my website, www.gilbertho.org by including photos of inside components that are key to identifying these locomotives. (model number 200 and 112) What is left to be added are photos of the reverse units which may be of two different types, and photos of confirmed all bakelite as well as die cast drivers.

                    Dale Smith
                    www.gilbertho.org


                    On 11/13/2013 8:17 AM, seekingho@... wrote:
                     
                    This picture and description which was donated to the HOseeker Website by Jim H. may help with your question about the Gilbert/American Flyer Pre-War 4-6-4. #5318
                     
                    Larry


                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <1kenalbers@...> wrote:

                    Dominic
                    The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.

                    No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!

                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    >
                    > Now to answer some questions.
                    > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > Ken
                    >



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21626 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help
                    Ken, yep the last ebay set I followed went close to $400.00. I can live with water heat to my intake. It works fine! Yep again, I am on Chevy talk. Not as much as I used to  be. When I started I was a newbe asking questions. Over the years I found I was one of those with some answers to those same questions. It is a great sight for the Chevy lover.
                    Dom.



                    From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:14 AM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help

                     
                    Dom,
                    I fell into those Fentons. A friend saw an ad for a set that was close to me so I checked it out. I knew nothing about them, I just wanted some Fentons and he wanted $75, so I said paid him. I didn't learn until several months later that they were worth several hundred dollars!
                    Nice old hard to find Chevys. Are you on Chevytalk? If not, check it out.
                    Ken

                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ken, my hat's off to you and Marci.I don't know where to start. I've always said there will be no cars other than Chevys in my driveway. I've pretty much kept to that despite a couple of other GM products such as a 87 S-15 Jimmy and an 84 Delta 88. Now with every Bow Tie I looked at and said yeah I like that, I open the next image and have to say it again. I'm an early 50s Chevy guy, so , I love the 57 and 61 Vettes. The 54 convertible is another that screams cool. I've just turned 59 this past September and I've told my wife Jeanne, I need to own my first Corvette by 60! She got her Camaro now it's my turn. But, with the 51 AD in the garage now, it may be a little longer for the Vette. I dig the 54 vert. The 4 door 57 Hard Top is a rather scarce but neat car. I could go on and on! The 235 with the Fentons and heat box is a rare and high priced item. I've been after a set for my 52 Bel Air. I have water heat to the Fentons now and always wanted to have a
                    > set with the stove box. I'll add a few pics of our toys for you. Thanks for the trip through Chevy wonderland Ken,
                    > Dominic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@...>
                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:27 AM
                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Dom
                    > My computer is down, so I have to sneak in and use my wife's before she gets up, so I'm slow on replies. My wife bought one of the first new Camaro convertibles. (SS) Chevy bought it back after a total of 58 days in the shop trying to get the top right. Rather than hijack this thread, go here for all our cars and more. http://www.picturetrail.com/ken58
                    > Ken
                    >
                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Ken, go ahead I'd love to hear. We have a few ourselves. There's the 2011 Camaro SS. The daily 03 trailblazer. The 52 Bel Air done in a traditional way. The 51 convertible done in a more 60s way. The 51 AD being moved into the house garage maybe tomorrow. It's a project to get started on. Okay. I'm done!
                    > > Dom
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@>
                    > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:59 PM
                    > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > Dominic
                    > > The 5318 just has two windows and also the dimple in the dome, so I guess that makes it a 38 or 39.
                    > >
                    > > No, the 47 is my birth year, but I do have an original (needs restoring) 38 sedan, a street rod 39 sedan and a 41 street rod coupe. I won't go into all our other Chevys!
                    > >
                    > > Ken
                    > >
                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello Ken, to pinpoint the year of the Gilbert 5318, the couplers mounted to the chassis and not the trucks will identify the 398 to 39 items. The same goes for the Hudson. Two more areas on the engine will also show it's year. Looking at the windows on the cab sides, the 38 to 39 loco will just have one vertical bar separating the two panes in the cab windows. The 40 to 41 loco will have a vertical and horizontal bar making four panes in the cab windows. Another item on the earlier loco would be a concave in the dome on top of the boiler just ahead of the cab roof. So the first dome from the cab will have a dip into the top of it.
                    > > > Now, is your name telling me you have a 47 Fleetline or Aero Sedan in your garage? Just curious!
                    > > > Dominic
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ________________________________
                    > > > From: bowtiefan47 <1kenalbers@>
                    > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >  
                    > > > Hello, I'm new here. My name is Ken and I'm the one that Larry posted all the photos of that you guys have been so kind as to help identify. I was in an antique shop a couple weeks ago and found a plastic tub full of old HO. I decided against buying it as most of the items needed some work, but after thinking it over, I went back later that day and picked it up. Paid $30. I didn't know how much was in it until I got home. Besides the 36 items that you have helped identify, it also included about a half dozen more cars that I was able to identify from the Hoseeker website, a Gilbert(I've been calling it American Flyer) steam engine #5318, a Varney Aero train, a couple Plasticville buildings and a bunch of parts. I wasn't really into collecting old HO as I have too many collections as it is, but now I'm kind of off and running with this and some other old HO a guy gave me a year ago.
                    > > >
                    > > > Now to answer some questions.
                    > > > -The #23 Gilbert flat is cast. There is a hole in each corner and 2 pairs of holes about 1/3 of the way in from the ends.
                    > > > -The #10 Gilbert Texaco tank does have the couplers attached to the car and not the trucks. Since this collection included the #5318 engine which is listed as 1938-45, I'm guessing that all the Gilbert pieces came in a set with the engine.
                    > > > -The #21 L&N flat and the #22 Milw. flat appear to be identical construction. I don't know the differences between Comet and Red Ball, but I would guess that they are both from the same manufacturer.
                    > > > -If the #1 car is Varney, then is it possible the MDT reefer #s 8 & 9 is also because of the similarity in the printing of the sides on the #1 and the ends on #9?
                    > > > -#s 6, 8, & 13 are cars that my dad made in 1940.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks so much for the help guys.
                    > > > Ken
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21627 From: DOM ST.JOHN Date: 11/13/2013
                    Subject: Re: Need Help [6 Attachments]- CARS
                    Happy to oblige Don. I have the skirts on the garage wall. Once I dropped the Hard Top I felt she looked better without them.
                    Dom



                    From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...>
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:36 PM
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help [6 Attachments]- CARS

                     
                    You guys and the TCAMG have surely been hitting close to me today.  The first car I ever drove was a '52 Chev. 2DHT, like your bronze and white but it had the skirts.  It was the same green as your '51, with a white top.  The TCAMG had a model of my '48 Ford 2D Coach that was bored, shaved, lowered, had a floor shift and had full skirts.  She wasn't fast but she would get to top speed quickly.
                    Thanks for the memories...
                    Happy railroading...
                    Don Staton in VA.
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 11/12/2013 7:06 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:
                     
                    Ken, my hat's off to you and Marci.I don't know where to start. I've always said there will be no cars other than Chevys in my driveway. I've pretty much kept to that despite a couple of other GM products such as a 87 S-15 Jimmy and an 84 Delta 88. Now with every Bow Tie I looked at and said yeah I like that, I open the next image and have to say it again. I'm an early 50s Chevy guy, so , I love the 57 and 61 Vettes. The 54 convertible is another that screams cool. I've just turned 59 this past September and I've told my wife Jeanne, I need to own my first Corvette by 60! She got her Camaro now it's my turn. But, with the 51 AD in the garage now, it may be a little longer for the Vette. I dig the 54 vert. The 4 door 57 Hard Top is a rather scarce but neat car. I could go on and on! The 235 with the Fentons and heat box is a rare and high priced item. I've been after a set for my 52 Bel Air. I have water heat to the Fentons now and always wanted to have a set with the stove box. I'll add a few pics of our toys for you. Thanks for the trip through Chevy wonderland Ken,
                    Dominic

                    [SNIPPED]






                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21628 From: Jim Waterman Date: 11/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.
                     
                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?
                     
                    Jim Waterman
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21629 From: John Hagen Date: 11/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                    Various reasons, some of which were more sensible than others.

                     

                    Imagine a powered HO diesel hood unit running around with a couple of hood doors flopping in the breeze. Or, if you are using covered wagons one huge O scale can with all that torque without having to fork out the $ for the other two units in your ABA set. Not to mention having enough track power for three motors. Also. In days past where it was often difficult to get two or more units to play well together. 

                     

                    And then there were guys like my friend Cal (RIP) who just had to have HO F units weight nearly as much as O scale F’s! An empty lead antimony Cary F shell holds a lot of additional lead. I swear if he would of put a track in his driveway he could of have towed his autos in and out of his garage. I’ll bet that if someone had suggested it he’d a done it too.

                     

                    But mostly it was a way to power more than one unit with a single motor. Remember back in the 70’ & 80’s buying three $35.00 motors, typical for Sagami’s back then, was a relatively large expense. Especially when running F units that could often be seen in designated sets. If memory serves Cal only had one F that wasn’t multi-drive for use here and there as needed. The fact that he loosely modeled the early diesel are helped with the designated power sets.

                     

                    Pius, from Hobbytown’s view, it made for more repeat business.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Waterman
                    Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:15 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                     

                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.

                     

                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?

                     

                    Jim Waterman

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21630 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    I've picked up a small selection of those multi-unit 'E's. Run as a connected locomotive there's no concern about syncing separately motored units for M-U'ing

                    I wonder why I see the E's often enough and the fleets of Hobbytown F's that should be out there as well just never appear?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Nov 16, 2013, at 6:15 PM, "Jim Waterman" <Watermaj@...> wrote:

                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.
                     
                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?
                     
                    Jim Waterman
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21631 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    They are still around.  I won an A-B set last year or so on eBay.
                    Happy railroading...
                    Don Staton in VA
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 11/17/2013 12:35 AM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                     
                    I've picked up a small selection of those multi-unit 'E's. Run as a connected locomotive there's no concern about syncing separately motored units for M-U'ing

                    I wonder why I see the E's often enough and the fleets of Hobbytown F's that should be out there as well just never appear?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Nov 16, 2013, at 6:15 PM, "Jim Waterman" <Watermaj@...> wrote:

                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.
                     
                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?
                     
                    Jim Waterman

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21632 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                    They do pop up on eBay from time to time. Less than multi-drive E’s but then there are many more single drive E’s there than there are F’s.

                     

                    It’s  just that the F’s are so much more useful on a model rr, sorta like they were on the prototype.

                     

                    Back in the 50’s & into the 60’s when just running trains without any real attempt at prototype operations there was a real desire to model all those beautiful, E unit powered passenger trains and the Hobbytown E’s were a big seller. You get a pair of multi-drive E’s and you could pull just about any streamliner. Hobbytown never produced any F shells as that didn’t seem to be the big part of their sales.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald R. Staton
                    Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:57 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                     

                    They are still around.  I won an A-B set last year or so on eBay.
                    Happy railroading...
                    Don Staton in VA
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    On 11/17/2013 12:35 AM, Mike Bauers wrote:

                     

                    I've picked up a small selection of those multi-unit 'E's. Run as a connected locomotive there's no concern about syncing separately motored units for M-U'ing

                     

                    I wonder why I see the E's often enough and the fleets of Hobbytown F's that should be out there as well just never appear?

                     

                    Mike Bauers

                    Sent from my iPhone

                     


                    On Nov 16, 2013, at 6:15 PM, "Jim Waterman" <Watermaj@...> wrote:

                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.

                     

                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?

                     

                    Jim Waterman

                     

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21633 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    On 11/16/2013 6:15 PM, Jim Waterman wrote:
                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.
                     
                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?
                     
                    Jim Waterman

                    I second everything John said (besides, in the particular modeller he referenced   {I was member of his club, and in fact painted many of those Cary shells for him}, Cal ran Dynatrol, so there was the additional expense of decoders and the limited number of channels available).

                    I will add one comment though, In the 1950's, when these first came out, we ran only open frame motors and it was not unusual for these to draw a full amp under load, so four powered units was more than many power packs could handle.  Therefore, the current draw was probably the biggest reason.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21634 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    On 11/16/2013 11:35 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    I've picked up a small selection of those multi-unit 'E's. Run as a connected locomotive there's no concern about syncing separately motored units for M-U'ing

                    I wonder why I see the E's often enough and the fleets of Hobbytown F's that should be out there as well just never appear?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    Mainly because Hobbytown never made F unit bodies.  The only time you'll see them is with Cary or Athearn shells.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21635 From: corlissbs Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    In the 1980's, I built a set of Hobbytown multi-drive FA's in ABA combination, with the slow speed gearing. (Powered diesels didn't play well together.  Pitmann motors all ran at different speeds under load.)  I replaced the Pitmann motor in the B-unit with the largest Sagami can motor that would fit in the shell.  Flywheel, of course!  Then made a wood mold and cast lead weights to fill the A-unit bodies.  You should see that thing pull!  100 cars easy.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin, WI
                     
                     
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21636 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    I had a single E7A that was 12 wheel drive with the O gauge motor...  It could pull anything coupled to it.  If you held it or tied it down it would spin the wheels at any speed from just on to high.  I never saw anything else like it.  I built an E7AB many years later that was multi-powered from the A but both units were only 8 wheel drive.  The two together were about equal to the single A with 12 wheel drive.  The O motor in those units made the difference.

                    Don Staton in VA
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 11/17/2013 9:52 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                     

                    On 11/16/2013 6:15 PM, Jim Waterman wrote:
                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.
                     
                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?
                     
                    Jim Waterman

                    I second everything John said (besides, in the particular modeller he referenced   {I was member of his club, and in fact painted many of those Cary shells for him}, Cal ran Dynatrol, so there was the additional expense of decoders and the limited number of channels available).

                    I will add one comment though, In the 1950's, when these first came out, we ran only open frame motors and it was not unusual for these to draw a full amp under load, so four powered units was more than many power packs could handle.  Therefore, the current draw was probably the biggest reason.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21637 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                    Ya knows, none of this is relevant in today’s world. All the motors used in anything akin to a quality product draws little current. What with our digital controls getting multiple units work and play well together is much simpler than it was. And our desire to do more prototypical operations means there is little need for locos that can be used to move walls. And that is all good for most.

                     

                    But, I am a throwback and I like trains that can and do pull heavy loads. To me, although I do like having models that really do look like their specific prototypes (I am breathlessly awaiting my Bowser GB&W C-430) all the emphasis on buying at perfect model and putting it on the rails and going is a bit much. I like to detail my locos to match their big brothers. I find the current state of the hobby where huge money is spent to make a “run” of a particular model only to have it disappear for years or forever is not how it should be. When the Athearn “blue box” F7’s were the only game in town, everyone accepted their shortcoming unless they wanted to invest a FEW bucks and some time into detailing them. Nowadays who wants to spend $200.00 Plus for a loco and then start cutting into it to make it match your dream loco? And if you do, the resale value goes out the window. Even losing the “OB” drops the resale. We have turned into a bunch of train collectors some of whom actually run their stuff. I will always be train modeler. And I throw away rubber tyres and will NEVER Snot my trains.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald R. Staton
                    Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:19 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                     

                    I had a single E7A that was 12 wheel drive with the O gauge motor...  It could pull anything coupled to it.  If you held it or tied it down it would spin the wheels at any speed from just on to high.  I never saw anything else like it.  I built an E7AB many years later that was multi-powered from the A but both units were only 8 wheel drive.  The two together were about equal to the single A with 12 wheel drive.  The O motor in those units made the difference.

                    Don Staton in VA
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    On 11/17/2013 9:52 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                     

                    On 11/16/2013 6:15 PM, Jim Waterman wrote:

                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.

                     

                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?

                     

                    Jim Waterman

                     

                    I second everything John said (besides, in the particular modeller he referenced   {I was member of his club, and in fact painted many of those Cary shells for him}, Cal ran Dynatrol, so there was the additional expense of decoders and the limited number of channels available).

                    I will add one comment though, In the 1950's, when these first came out, we ran only open frame motors and it was not unusual for these to draw a full amp under load, so four powered units was more than many power packs could handle.  Therefore, the current draw was probably the biggest reason.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                     

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21638 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    Hi John, I like a lot of old stuff also, but I make sure it can run properly on modern layouts, including my own.  Don't discount the new stuff about pulling power.  Last weekend I saw a Broadway Limited Big Boy take over a train that was triple mu'd pulling almost 100 NMRA weighted cars.  I could not believe that the Big Boy, easily pulled that load on the Sippers and Switchers module setup at the NRV Train Show in Raleigh last week.
                    Regards,
                    Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    From: sprinthag@...
                    Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 09:54:32 -0600
                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                    Ya knows, none of this is relevant in today’s world. All the motors used in anything akin to a quality product draws little current. What with our digital controls getting multiple units work and play well together is much simpler than it was. And our desire to do more prototypical operations means there is little need for locos that can be used to move walls. And that is all good for most.

                     

                    But, I am a throwback and I like trains that can and do pull heavy loads. To me, although I do like having models that really do look like their specific prototypes (I am breathlessly awaiting my Bowser GB&W C-430) all the emphasis on buying at perfect model and putting it on the rails and going is a bit much. I like to detail my locos to match their big brothers. I find the current state of the hobby where huge money is spent to make a “run” of a particular model only to have it disappear for years or forever is not how it should be. When the Athearn “blue box” F7’s were the only game in town, everyone accepted their shortcoming unless they wanted to invest a FEW bucks and some time into detailing them. Nowadays who wants to spend $200.00 Plus for a loco and then start cutting into it to make it match your dream loco? And if you do, the resale value goes out the window. Even losing the “OB” drops the resale. We have turned into a bunch of train collectors some of whom actually run their stuff. I will always be train modeler. And I throw away rubber tyres and will NEVER Snot my trains.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald R. Staton
                    Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:19 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                     

                    I had a single E7A that was 12 wheel drive with the O gauge motor...  It could pull anything coupled to it.  If you held it or tied it down it would spin the wheels at any speed from just on to high.  I never saw anything else like it.  I built an E7AB many years later that was multi-powered from the A but both units were only 8 wheel drive.  The two together were about equal to the single A with 12 wheel drive.  The O motor in those units made the difference.

                    Don Staton in VA
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    On 11/17/2013 9:52 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                     

                    On 11/16/2013 6:15 PM, Jim Waterman wrote:

                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.

                     

                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?

                     

                    Jim Waterman

                     

                    I second everything John said (besides, in the particular modeller he referenced   {I was member of his club, and in fact painted many of those Cary shells for him}, Cal ran Dynatrol, so there was the additional expense of decoders and the limited number of channels available).

                    I will add one comment though, In the 1950's, when these first came out, we ran only open frame motors and it was not unusual for these to draw a full amp under load, so four powered units was more than many power packs could handle.  Therefore, the current draw was probably the biggest reason.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                     


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21639 From: seekingho Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                    Here are a couple of pictures of the Hobbytown F-3AB multi drive Units.  The draw bar is missing.  I believe the Shells are Varney Cast Metal F-3AB Units. 

                     

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fhobby-town&image=aImg_6280.jpg

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fhobby-town&image=aImg_6283.jpg

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fhobby-town&image=aImg_6281.jpg

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fhobby-town&image=aImg_6282.jpg

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fhobby-town&image=aImg_6278.jpg

                    http://hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fhobby-town&image=aImg_6279.jpg

                     

                    Larry



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <chpln1@...> wrote:

                    I had a single E7A that was 12 wheel drive with the O gauge motor...  It could pull anything coupled to it.  If you held it or tied it down it would spin the wheels at any speed from just on to high.  I never saw anything else like it.  I built an E7AB many years later that was multi-powered from the A but both units were only 8 wheel drive.  The two together were about equal to the single A with 12 wheel drive.  The O motor in those units made the difference.

                    Don Staton in VA
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 11/17/2013 9:52 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                     

                    On 11/16/2013 6:15 PM, Jim Waterman wrote:
                    Regarding the Hobbytown drives, some were designed to enable coupling of power between units (primarily to a geared ‘dummy’.
                     
                    A lot of connections, I’m sure they ran great, but why not just buy another motor?
                     
                    Jim Waterman

                    I second everything John said (besides, in the particular modeller he referenced   {I was member of his club, and in fact painted many of those Cary shells for him}, Cal ran Dynatrol, so there was the additional expense of decoders and the limited number of channels available).

                    I will add one comment though, In the 1950's, when these first came out, we ran only open frame motors and it was not unusual for these to draw a full amp under load, so four powered units was more than many power packs could handle.  Therefore, the current draw was probably the biggest reason.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21640 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                    Credit given where credit is due. The BLI Big Boy does NOT have any traction tyres. Decent tractive effort without traction tyres is something to be applauded today. Very, very good. Now if it just had prototype articulation ………..

                     

                    Speaking about Big Boys and their ilk on modular railroads, Trainfest was last weekend and I again watched several 3 rail articulated’s on their tight curves and they worked and looked just well using proper articulation. Yes these were larger than 0-36 curves  and they did not look exactly prototype on them but any articulated steam loco that has two swinging trucks as a diesel has looks stupid on any curve. The basic truth is that these engines could not possibly work in that form. So where is the prototype appearance in that?

                     

                    Somehow the reasoning behind accepting something this toy like as a prototypical model, even by groups such as the Rail Prototype Modelers, is beyond me. Prototypical is prototypical and toy like is toy like. But that’s just me.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris
                    Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 10:38 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                     

                    Hi John, I like a lot of old stuff also, but I make sure it can run properly on modern layouts, including my own.  Don't discount the new stuff about pulling power.  Last weekend I saw a Broadway Limited Big Boy take over a train that was triple mu'd pulling almost 100 NMRA weighted cars.  I could not believe that the Big Boy, easily pulled that load on the Sippers and Switchers module setup at the NRV Train Show in Raleigh last week.
                    Regards,
                    Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21641 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    On 11/17/2013 11:40 AM, John Hagen wrote:

                    Credit given where credit is due. The BLI Big Boy does NOT have any traction tyres. Decent tractive effort without traction tyres is something to be applauded today. Very, very good. Now if it just had prototype articulation ………..

                     

                    Speaking about Big Boys and their ilk on modular railroads, Trainfest was last weekend and I again watched several 3 rail articulated’s on their tight curves and they worked and looked just well using proper articulation. Yes these were larger than 0-36 curves  and they did not look exactly prototype on them but any articulated steam loco that has two swinging trucks as a diesel has looks stupid on any curve. The basic truth is that these engines could not possibly work in that form. So where is the prototype appearance in that?

                     

                    Somehow the reasoning behind accepting something this toy like as a prototypical model, even by groups such as the Rail Prototype Modelers, is beyond me. Prototypical is prototypical and toy like is toy like. But that’s just me.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    Just like Trolley cars roaring down the street at 40 MPH with the poles down?  <G>

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21642 From: John Hagen Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                    Hey, let’s not start bringing anyone’s heritage into this.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                    Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:13 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....

                     

                    Just like Trolley cars roaring down the street at 40 MPH with the poles down?  <G>

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21643 From: rhbale8 Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Ambroid/Northeastern
                    I would appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with the historical relationship between Ambroid and Northeaster Scale Lumber and the HO scale kits that were marketed by one or the other or both. Please contact me off list at rhbale@....
                     
                    Thanks.
                     
                    Richard Bale
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21644 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    But isn't it odd how the Hobbytown powered F's are so rarely seen in the pre-owned market?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Nov 17, 2013, at 8:55 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    On 11/16/2013 11:35 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    I've picked up a small selection of those multi-unit 'E's. Run as a connected locomotive there's no concern about syncing separately motored units for M-U'ing

                    I wonder why I see the E's often enough and the fleets of Hobbytown F's that should be out there as well just never appear?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    Mainly because Hobbytown never made F unit bodies.  The only time you'll see them is with Cary or Athearn shells.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21645 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern
                    On 11/17/2013 4:04 PM, Rhbale@... wrote:
                    > I would appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with the historical
                    > relationship between Ambroid and Northeaster Scale Lumber and the HO
                    > scale kits that were marketed by one or the other or both. Please
                    > contact me off list at rhbale@... <mailto:rhbale@...>.

                    I'm sure that a number of us, including myself, would also be
                    interested in this bit of history and information. I'd like to see the
                    discussion kept on-list.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
                    whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
                    or in the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
                    - Mahatma Gandhi
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21646 From: Loren Martell Date: 11/17/2013
                    Subject: FS: FSM Un-assembled kits
                    FS:  FSM Un-assembled kits

                     

                    Fine Scale Miniatures, kit no. 45 - Freight House.  Asking $100 + postage

                    Fine Scale Miniatures, kit no. 55 - Weary Willy's Truck Terminal.  Asking $135 + postage

                    Fine Scale Miniatures, kit no. 150 - Freight House.  Asking $125 + postage

                    Fine Scale Miniatures, kit no. 160 - Logging Repair Shed.  Asking $110 + postage

                     

                    Buy all 4 for $450 + postage.

                     
                    Shipping is from 97006, your choice.

                    Pictures available on request. Please contact me off list
                     

                    Payment by PayPal or USPS Money Order ( Next business day shipping ) or

                    Bank Check ( 5 business day hold before shipping.
                     

                    As always, I will consider any reasonable offer.


                    Loren Martell
                    Beaverton, OR 97006
                    503-810-9018


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21647 From: cwrailman Date: 11/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern

                     

                    Did you guys check out the “Ambroid Story” in the “files” section of this board?  That may give you some of the history and answers you are looking for. 

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

                    On 11/17/2013 4:04 PM, Rhbale@... wrote:
                    > I would appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with the historical
                    > relationship between Ambroid and Northeaster Scale Lumber and the HO
                    > scale kits that were marketed by one or the other or both. Please
                    > contact me off list at rhbale@... <mailto:rhbale@...>.

                    I'm sure that a number of us, including myself, would also be
                    interested in this bit of history and information. I'd like to see the
                    discussion kept on-list.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
                    whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
                    or in the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
                    - Mahatma Gandhi
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21648 From: Walter Bayer II Date: 11/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: Today's train show Hobbytown E unit: questions....
                    Maybe they didn't sell well, so there aren't too many out there today.
                    Walter


                    On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                     

                    But isn't it odd how the Hobbytown powered F's are so rarely seen in the pre-owned market?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Nov 17, 2013, at 8:55 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    On 11/16/2013 11:35 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    I've picked up a small selection of those multi-unit 'E's. Run as a connected locomotive there's no concern about syncing separately motored units for M-U'ing

                    I wonder why I see the E's often enough and the fleets of Hobbytown F's that should be out there as well just never appear?


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    Mainly because Hobbytown never made F unit bodies.  The only time you'll see them is with Cary or Athearn shells.

                    Don
                    -- 




                    --
                    Regards,
                    Walter
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21649 From: david_helber Date: 11/18/2013
                    Subject: Spring Belt Drives???
                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?


                    -- David
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21650 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 11/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    Alpine Industries (as I recall) used to make the replacement spring belts as I have two that I purchased to repair an old MEW loco. They may not have them any more as this was six or seven years ago that I bought it.


                    Matt



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <dnhelber@...> wrote:

                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21651 From: david_helber Date: 11/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    Thanks, Matt. I'll check it out.


                    David 



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <mattjcoleman@...> wrote:

                    Alpine Industries (as I recall) used to make the replacement spring belts as I have two that I purchased to repair an old MEW loco. They may not have them any more as this was six or seven years ago that I bought it.


                    Matt



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <dnhelber@...> wrote:

                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21652 From: jay matz Date: 11/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???
                    David
                    I have replaced the spring belts with rubber bands.
                    Jay



                    On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:12 PM, "dnhelber@..." <dnhelber@...> wrote:
                     
                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21653 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 11/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern
                    Very good Denny,
                    In addition to that another article by Roger Horne is "Built an Ambroid Kit lately?".  A little further down.

                    Roger lives in our Division geography, CPD13, and he used to come to meetings a few years ago.  He even put on an Ambroid clinic and brought in some of the Ambroid kits he built, he had built them all, but that was to much to bring to a meeting.  I was very impressed with his workmanship and yes, he did use Ambroid cement to build all of these, some of which were 30 or 40 years old and in excellent condition.  He also explained that he used Scalecoat sealer on all wood parts prior to assembly.  He felt white or yellow glue would also work fine once sealed, he just had a preference to Ambroid cement since that was what he had used from the beginning.
                    Regards, 
                    Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    From: cwrailman@...
                    Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:17:50 -0800
                    Subject: RE: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid/Northeastern

                     

                     

                    Did you guys check out the “Ambroid Story” in the “files” section of this board?  That may give you some of the history and answers you are looking for. 

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman 




                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

                    On 11/17/2013 4:04 PM, Rhbale@... wrote:
                    > I would appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with the historical
                    > relationship between Ambroid and Northeaster Scale Lumber and the HO
                    > scale kits that were marketed by one or the other or both. Please
                    > contact me off list at rhbale@... <mailto:rhbale@...>.

                    I'm sure that a number of us, including myself, would also be
                    interested in this bit of history and information. I'd like to see the
                    discussion kept on-list.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
                    whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
                    or in the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
                    - Mahatma Gandhi

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21654 From: cwrailman Date: 11/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ambroid/Northeastern

                     

                    Vic,

                    I really enjoyed the article about the Ambroid/Northeastern kits which is why I suggested it be read. I also enjoyed seeing photo’s of Rogers collection of built kits.  I have most of the Ambroid kits and have built about nine of the cars so I have an appreciation for his work. 

                    I seal the wood with Scalecoat sanding sealer and also use Ambroid cement for assembly.  However, I believe the key to a good build is the clamping of assemblies as they dry.  I have seen way to many models where the builder tried to use glue as a filler then when the joint failed they blamed it on the glue. AH N O !!!  It’s not the glues fault.  That is why I stress clamping in all my builds such as this one of a LaBelle caboose bashed into a Drovers caboose.

                    http://cwrailman.com/Drover%20Caboose/Drovers%20Caboose1.htm

                    By the way, if the wood is sealed with Scalecoat or some other Lacquer based sealer it is better to use Ambroid’s which will permeate the sealer rather than a white glue which will sit on top of the sealer. 

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:

                    Very good Denny,
                    In addition to that another article by Roger Horne is "Built an Ambroid Kit lately?".  A little further down.

                    Roger lives in our Division geography, CPD13, and he used to come to meetings a few years ago.  He even put on an Ambroid clinic and brought in some of the Ambroid kits he built, he had built them all, but that was to much to bring to a meeting.  I was very impressed with his workmanship and yes, he did use Ambroid cement to build all of these, some of which were 30 or 40 years old and in excellent condition.  He also explained that he used Scalecoat sealer on all wood parts prior to assembly.  He felt white or yellow glue would also work fine once sealed, he just had a preference to Ambroid cement since that was what he had used from the beginning.
                    Regards, 
                    Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    From: cwrailman@...
                    Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:17:50 -0800
                    Subject: RE: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid/Northeastern

                     

                     

                    Did you guys check out the “Ambroid Story” in the “files” section of this board?  That may give you some of the history and answers you are looking for. 

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman 




                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

                    On 11/17/2013 4:04 PM, Rhbale@... wrote:
                    > I would appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with the historical
                    > relationship between Ambroid and Northeaster Scale Lumber and the HO
                    > scale kits that were marketed by one or the other or both. Please
                    > contact me off list at rhbale@... <mailto:rhbale@...>.

                    I'm sure that a number of us, including myself, would also be
                    interested in this bit of history and information. I'd like to see the
                    discussion kept on-list.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
                    whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
                    or in the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
                    - Mahatma Gandhi

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21655 From: sswcharlie Date: 11/19/2013
                    Subject: MDC Roundhouse

                    About 25+ years ago I bought a kitbashed gas electric car that used a Roundhouse Harriman car and for the cabin at the front it used a quite square section of a car body and had the windows cut out etc.  I was lead to believe that this section was also a MDC part which came with some of their kits.


                    I can probably get a photo to put on the group, if I can work the new system!! out.


                    Any ideas

                    Thanks

                    Charlie

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21656 From: david_helber Date: 11/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    Thanks, Jay. I don't know why I missed your message earlier. Sorry for the delayed response. 


                    On the Lindberg SW-1, the drive belt runs down through a sort of inverted metal funnel on the top of the powered truck, and I think the friction of a rubber belt against the mouth of the funnel would be too great for the motor to overcome. That's why I was interested in getting the metal coil version.


                    Thanks also to Matt, who helped me find Alpine Division Models, which is evidently the current producer of the venerable Suydam line of building kits and trolley accessories. 

                    http://www.alpinemodels.com/page/page/2753358.htm

                    Though Alpine doesn't list the coil-belts or material on the website, they do list the grooved wheels for trolley motor shafts that used to take the metal belts (though apparently they now use neoprene). Their website advertises custom work, special requests and orders, so I'll contact them to see if they still have any Fifties technology in the house. 


                    -- David



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <dlw455@...> wrote:

                    David
                    I have replaced the spring belts with rubber bands.
                    Jay



                    On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:12 PM, "dnhelber@..." <dnhelber@...> wrote:
                     
                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21657 From: mmattjcoleman Date: 11/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    Dave,


                    Glad my post was of some help and I am glad you asked the question since I think it struck a chord with a lot of us. And if you would, if they do have any of that old technology still around, please post a note. Sometimes finding stuff like this is the key to a successful restoration.


                    Cheers!

                    Matt





                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <dnhelber@...> wrote:

                    Thanks, Jay. I don't know why I missed your message earlier. Sorry for the delayed response. 


                    On the Lindberg SW-1, the drive belt runs down through a sort of inverted metal funnel on the top of the powered truck, and I think the friction of a rubber belt against the mouth of the funnel would be too great for the motor to overcome. That's why I was interested in getting the metal coil version.


                    Thanks also to Matt, who helped me find Alpine Division Models, which is evidently the current producer of the venerable Suydam line of building kits and trolley accessories. 

                    http://www.alpinemodels.com/page/page/2753358.htm

                    Though Alpine doesn't list the coil-belts or material on the website, they do list the grooved wheels for trolley motor shafts that used to take the metal belts (though apparently they now use neoprene). Their website advertises custom work, special requests and orders, so I'll contact them to see if they still have any Fifties technology in the house. 


                    -- David



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <dlw455@...> wrote:

                    David
                    I have replaced the spring belts with rubber bands.
                    Jay



                    On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:12 PM, "dnhelber@..." <dnhelber@...> wrote:
                     
                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21658 From: sswcharlie Date: 11/22/2013
                    Subject: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts

                    With the Walthers old gas electric some of the diecast parts were available as a part only.


                    Can anyone help with the Part # for the front section of the GE .  That is the drivers window and grills etc


                    Thanks

                    Charlie

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21659 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
                    On 11/22/2013 11:28 PM, railroads@... wrote:
                    With the Walthers old gas electric some of the diecast parts were available as a part only.Can anyone help with the Part # for the front section of the GE .  That is the drivers window and grills etc

                    Thanks

                    Charlie


                    Here's the page from 1977, hope it helps.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21660 From: John Hagen Date: 11/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts

                    Ain’t it amazing how back in the GOOD olde days when  Walthers (and most others) produced their stuff  right here in the good olde US of A  all the parts were available for them. And not just for ONE run of the product but often for years after a particular kit was no longer available, which, if the kit proved at least somewhat popular it would be available for years.

                     

                    Yeah I know it’s all about the economics of injection molded plastic  compounded by off-shore production not even owning the dies anymore. It was all likely inevitable but that don’t mean I gotta like it.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                    Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 6:26 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts

                     

                    On 11/22/2013 11:28 PM, railroads@... wrote:

                    With the Walthers old gas electric some of the diecast parts were available as a part only.Can anyone help with the Part # for the front section of the GE .  That is the drivers window and grills etc

                    Thanks

                    Charlie

                     

                    Here's the page from 1977, hope it helps.

                     

                    <Snip>

                     

                    Don



                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21661 From: jbark76 Date: 11/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    David,

                     

                    Somewhere I have original replacement springs for the Lindberg SW-1s so I can probably get you one.  However, those springs can be found in high pressure oil seals used for shafts in cars and other machinery.  I found out at work when I was replacing them.  I've saved a number of them to use as drive belts, someday.  They're neat because one end threads into the other to make the loop and so they can be unthreaded, cut to length and threaded back together.  Assuming you still need it, I will try to dig them out.  -Jeff-



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <dnhelber@...> wrote:

                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21662 From: Bill Scott Date: 11/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
                    Did anyone come up with the O ring for this engine?  I am also looking for an O ring pully for the 1958 Revell SW7 - also looking for the instructions to take it apart.

                    Thanks

                    Bill Scott


                    On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:38 PM, gary wrote:

                     

                    Hello,
                    I am looking for a motor and "o" ring pulley for a 1958 Revell SW7.
                    Anyone have an extra or junker they would part with? Willing to pay reasonable price and shipping. I am trying to restore an old engine given to me in the 1970's that was missing parts. Thanks for any help.
                    Gary Pardue,
                    garyp552002@...


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21663 From: greenbrier614 Date: 11/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958

                     I had one for a while, and found they take a #30 O-ring. There's an exploded diagram on Tony Cook's site.


                    http://ho-scaletrains.net/revellhoscaletrainsresource/id3.html


                    Nelson





                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <wscott@...> wrote:

                    Did anyone come up with the O ring for this engine?  I am also looking for an O ring pully for the 1958 Revell SW7 - also looking for the instructions to take it apart.

                    Thanks

                    Bill Scott


                    On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:38 PM, gary wrote:

                     

                    Hello,
                    I am looking for a motor and "o" ring pulley for a 1958 Revell SW7.
                    Anyone have an extra or junker they would part with? Willing to pay reasonable price and shipping. I am trying to restore an old engine given to me in the 1970's that was missing parts. Thanks for any help.
                    Gary Pardue,
                    garyp552002@...


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21664 From: corlissbs Date: 11/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
                    I don't think all of the SW7's had the clutch.  Seems to me that only some had.  Was that the Deluxe model?
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin, WI
                     
                     
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21665 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958
                    On 11/24/2013 12:24 PM, greenbrier614@... wrote:

                     I had one for a while, and found they take a #30 O-ring. There's an exploded diagram on Tony Cook's site.


                    http://ho-scaletrains.net/revellhoscaletrainsresource/id3.html


                    Nelson





                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <wscott@...> wrote:

                    Did anyone come up with the O ring for this engine?  I am also looking for an O ring pully for the 1958 Revell SW7 - also looking for the instructions to take it apart.

                    Thanks

                    Bill Scott


                    On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:38 PM, gary wrote:

                     

                    Hello,
                    I am looking for a motor and "o" ring pulley for a 1958 Revell SW7.
                    Anyone have an extra or junker they would part with? Willing to pay reasonable price and shipping. I am trying to restore an old engine given to me in the 1970's that was missing parts. Thanks for any help.
                    Gary Pardue,
                    garyp552002@...


                    You mean a -030?    That sounds about right for ID but that seems awful light for power transmission

                      http://www.prepol.com/PPE-Uploads/Oring_sizes_AS568.pdf

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21666 From: greenbrier614 Date: 11/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Revell SW7 1958

                    They are 1/16" thick, and the same dimensions as the original. I picked up a pack of them at Home Despot by comparing them to the original dry rotted belt.


                    Nelson



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    On 11/24/2013 12:24 PM, greenbrier614@... wrote:

                     I had one for a while, and found they take a #30 O-ring. There's an exploded diagram on Tony Cook's site.


                    http://ho-scaletrains.net/revellhoscaletrainsresource/id3.html


                    Nelson





                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <wscott@...> wrote:

                    Did anyone come up with the O ring for this engine?  I am also looking for an O ring pully for the 1958 Revell SW7 - also looking for the instructions to take it apart.

                    Thanks

                    Bill Scott


                    On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:38 PM, gary wrote:

                     

                    Hello,
                    I am looking for a motor and "o" ring pulley for a 1958 Revell SW7.
                    Anyone have an extra or junker they would part with? Willing to pay reasonable price and shipping. I am trying to restore an old engine given to me in the 1970's that was missing parts. Thanks for any help.
                    Gary Pardue,
                    garyp552002@...


                    You mean a -030?    That sounds about right for ID but that seems awful light for power transmission

                      http://www.prepol.com/PPE-Uploads/Oring_sizes_AS568.pdf

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21667 From: mah644 Date: 11/25/2013
                    Subject: Re: MDC Roundhouse

                    This was a popular and much less expensive alternative to the Walthers kit.  The "front" that you describe was an end section of the Roundhouse/MDC Box Cab Diesel kit.  With a little extra added detail, they stand up well by comparison even today.


                    Best Wishes--Carl

                    Atlanta, GA 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <railroads@...> wrote:

                    About 25+ years ago I bought a kitbashed gas electric car that used a Roundhouse Harriman car and for the cabin at the front it used a quite square section of a car body and had the windows cut out etc.  I was lead to believe that this section was also a MDC part which came with some of their kits.


                    I can probably get a photo to put on the group, if I can work the new system!! out.


                    Any ideas

                    Thanks

                    Charlie

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21668 From: sswcharlie Date: 11/25/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts

                    Hi Don


                    Thanks for your post on parts.  Unfortuneatly  the link did not come thru.  Could you repost thanks.


                    Charlie 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    On 11/22/2013 11:28 PM, railroads@... wrote:
                    With the Walthers old gas electric some of the diecast parts were available as a part only.Can anyone help with the Part # for the front section of the GE .  That is the drivers window and grills etc

                    Thanks

                    Charlie


                    Here's the page from 1977, hope it helps.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21669 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/25/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
                    On 11/25/2013 6:15 PM, railroads@... wrote:

                    Let's try again.  It wasn't a link, it was a PDF attachment.

                    I'm copying your direct e,ail in case it's just Yahoo playing games.

                    Let me know you get it.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21670 From: Charlie Date: 11/26/2013
                    Subject: Re: Walthers Vintage Gas Electric - Parts
                    Hi Don and Carl
                     
                     
                    Carl.  Thanks for your notes on the front of GE.  I will follow that up, I am sure you are correct.  Will dig out a Boxcab and have a look.  That must have been what I heard about using mdc bits when I originally purchased.
                     
                    Don.  Sorry to trouble you again, but the PDF has got stripped again from the group list, and I did not get an email to the   railroads@... address.  You could try   charles7@...
                     
                     
                    This is a great group to belong to.  Very informative.  Thanks to all.
                     
                     
                    Charlie Harris
                    New  Zealand
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21671 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/27/2013
                    Subject: Lionel Husky Locos
                    Hi Folks,

                    I just returned from a trip to the Library. They have a copy of the
                    Greenberg book on Lionel HO. My interest is in the Husky locos. It
                    appears that the following list is all there were:

                    0054 Canadian Pacific (Rare - perhaps prototype only)
                    0055 Minneapolis and Saint Louis - No Snow Plow
                    0056 Atomic Energy Commission
                    0057 Union Pacific
                    0058 Rock Island
                    0059 United States Air Force
                    0560 Rio Grande with Snow Plow
                    0561 Minneapolis and Saint Louis - Rotating Snow Plow
                    0570 United States Navy

                    There are some variations on the M&StL locos.

                    Does anyone know of any others?

                    In the days of my misspent youth, I had a 3-track, oval on which my
                    friends and I would race the Athearn Hustlers. I really did not know
                    until recently that Lionel also sold models of those H. K. Porter
                    diesels. I do know that Marx had several versions and that Model Power
                    has much more recent production versions. I have not found information
                    about these little beauties in other scales or eras.

                    These little engines will run on very tight radius curves and would be
                    ideal for portable, lightweight micro layouts.

                    Happy Thanksgiving,
                    Bill

                    --
                    Bill Porter
                    The Acreage - Florida
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21672 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/27/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    Are these the end cab or the center cab versions?

                    I'm a center can buff with a few of them. Those seem to only have been made in one road name, an Erir Lackawanna road number and stock number 0545.

                    Neat little critters that seem to be Whitcombs on a geared Athearn Hustler chassis.






                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Nov 27, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Bill Porter <wpporter@...> wrote:

                    > Hi Folks,
                    >
                    > I just returned from a trip to the Library. They have a copy of the
                    > Greenberg book on Lionel HO. My interest is in the Husky locos. It
                    > appears that the following list is all there were:
                    >
                    > 0054 Canadian Pacific (Rare - perhaps prototype only)
                    > 0055 Minneapolis and Saint Louis - No Snow Plow
                    > 0056 Atomic Energy Commission
                    > 0057 Union Pacific
                    > 0058 Rock Island
                    > 0059 United States Air Force
                    > 0560 Rio Grande with Snow Plow
                    > 0561 Minneapolis and Saint Louis - Rotating Snow Plow
                    > 0570 United States Navy
                    >
                    > There are some variations on the M&StL locos.
                    >
                    > Does anyone know of any others?
                    >
                    > In the days of my misspent youth, I had a 3-track, oval on which my
                    > friends and I would race the Athearn Hustlers. I really did not know
                    > until recently that Lionel also sold models of those H. K. Porter
                    > diesels. I do know that Marx had several versions and that Model Power
                    > has much more recent production versions. I have not found information
                    > about these little beauties in other scales or eras.
                    >
                    > These little engines will run on very tight radius curves and would be
                    > ideal for portable, lightweight micro layouts.
                    >
                    > Happy Thanksgiving,
                    > Bill
                    >
                    > --
                    > Bill Porter
                    > The Acreage - Florida
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21673 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/27/2013
                    Subject: Passenger trains
                    I just watched about 2-dozen Edison films of about 1885-1910 showing passenger trains, El's, and trolley cars of the day.

                    I was struck by the fact that all of them were glossy. I didn't notice a single RR based [passenger] car that wasn't reflecting the scenery around it to some degree. Even in a one-car train.

                    There's a good reason the cars of the day were nicknamed 'Varnish'..........

                    Lest we forget......... Flat paint finishes were not what was then on passenger units............

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21674 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    On 11/27/2013 6:59 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    > Are these the end cab or the center cab versions?
                    >
                    > I'm a center can buff with a few of them. Those seem to only have been made in one road name, an Erir Lackawanna road number and stock number 0545.
                    >
                    > Neat little critters that seem to be Whitcombs on a geared Athearn Hustler chassis.
                    >
                    > Mike Bauers
                    > Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    The centercab was supposed to be a GE 44 ton. I've never seen one so I
                    can't vouch for it's authenticity.

                    The Husky was an Athearn Hustler shell. This was during the era when
                    Lionel used Athearn bodies for most of it's HO equipment.

                    The on;y really unique one was the version with the Rotary plow attachment.

                    Don

                    --
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21675 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    Hi Mike,

                    These are all the end cab versions. I'll see what I can do about posting a few photos.

                    Happy Thanksgiving,
                    Bill
                    Bill Porter
                    The Acreage - Florida
                    On 11/27/2013 7:59 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                     

                    Are these the end cab or the center cab versions?

                    I'm a center can buff with a few of them. Those seem to only have been made in one road name, an Erir Lackawanna road number and stock number 0545.

                    Neat little critters that seem to be Whitcombs on a geared Athearn Hustler chassis.

                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21676 From: corlissbs Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    There were two versions of the Lionel Huskey loco.  The early ones were Athearn rubber band drive Hustlers.  This was when Lionel was buying their trains from Athearn.  There would be an L in a circle on the side of the cab.  I have one lettered Navy Yard, Brooklyn NY.
                     
                    When Lionel started building their own gear drives and bodies, the Huskey changed too.  The body was similar to the Hustler, but had a different grill and an operating headlight.  Looked more "clunky" than the Hustler.  Horizontal motor with a worm gear to each axle.  Quite noisy, as were Lionel's diesels. I have one of these in my collection, but don't know how to post pics to this group.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin, WI
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21677 From: oljoe Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    Just my opinion...
                    The geared Lionel Husky was not a very good low speed switcher as was
                    the Athearn
                    rubber band Hustler. Both shared the ability to run at very high
                    speeds. I recall that
                    there were several gear conversion kits for the Athearn Hustler that
                    offered much
                    more sedate operation. I think one of the conversion kits was made by
                    NWSL. I
                    have at least one of the converted Hustlers and one of the unbuilt
                    conversion kits buried
                    somewhere in my "archives".

                    I also recall some sort of kit with a flywheel that was intended to tame
                    the Hustler.

                    The Athearn Hustler sold for about 1/2 the price of the Lionel Husky.

                    The Mantua Whitcomb switcher is an example of a nicely geared Whitcomb
                    switcher but it too
                    sold for double the price of the Athearn switcher.

                    The Marx Whitcomb was a very noisy knockoff of the Mantua switcher -
                    actually the
                    running gear from a Marx F7 diesel, complete with the F7 sideframes.
                    Ungainly looking
                    at best.

                    Joe O'Loughlin
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21678 From: Mike Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    Don't be too hard on those products - they were never sold as accurate
                    models. They were intended as a way of getting young modelers into the
                    hobby at a price that they could afford. Many kids who bought them ended
                    up getting into "real" model railroading later on and kept the hobby
                    from stagnating (more than it did).

                    So just enjoy them for what they are - examples of the evolution of
                    model railroading from clockwork toys to representations of the prototype.

                    Mike

                    On 11/28/2013 9:03 AM, oljoe wrote:
                    > Just my opinion...
                    > The geared Lionel Husky was not a very good low speed switcher as was
                    > the Athearn
                    > rubber band Hustler. Both shared the ability to run at very high
                    > speeds. I recall that
                    > there were several gear conversion kits for the Athearn Hustler that
                    > offered much
                    > more sedate operation. I think one of the conversion kits was made by
                    > NWSL. I
                    > have at least one of the converted Hustlers and one of the unbuilt
                    > conversion kits buried
                    > somewhere in my "archives".
                    >
                    > I also recall some sort of kit with a flywheel that was intended to tame
                    > the Hustler.
                    >
                    > The Athearn Hustler sold for about 1/2 the price of the Lionel Husky.
                    >
                    > The Mantua Whitcomb switcher is an example of a nicely geared Whitcomb
                    > switcher but it too
                    > sold for double the price of the Athearn switcher.
                    >
                    > The Marx Whitcomb was a very noisy knockoff of the Mantua switcher -
                    > actually the
                    > running gear from a Marx F7 diesel, complete with the F7 sideframes.
                    > Ungainly looking
                    > at best.
                    >
                    > Joe O'Loughlin
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21679 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    On 11/28/2013 8:03 AM, oljoe wrote:
                    > Just my opinion...
                    > The geared Lionel Husky was not a very good low speed switcher as was
                    > the Athearn
                    > rubber band Hustler. Both shared the ability to run at very high
                    > speeds.

                    I used to have one of these in the Air Force paint scheme. Yeah, it
                    ran more like a slot car than a model train. Unfortunately it was one of
                    the things that I had to put up on eBay several years ago when I was out
                    of work for 13 months in order to survive. I don't recall what I got for it.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21680 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    Hi Brad and Happy Thanksgiving,

                    If you care to do so, please email any photos you would like to put into a folder for this type and I will post them for you. I intend to post photos of some of the Athearn, Marx and Model Power versions Real Soon Now.

                    wpporter@...

                    If I can figure a set of photo steps, I will post that as well. It is not hard and I have photo albums on other Yahoo Groups. With the change in software, my old set of steps needs some updating.

                    Bill
                    Bill Porter
                    The Acreage - Florida
                    On 11/28/2013 8:42 AM, corlissbs@... wrote:
                     

                    There were two versions of the Lionel Huskey loco.  The early ones were Athearn rubber band drive Hustlers.  This was when Lionel was buying their trains from Athearn.  There would be an L in a circle on the side of the cab.  I have one lettered Navy Yard, Brooklyn NY.
                     
                    When Lionel started building their own gear drives and bodies, the Huskey changed too.  The body was similar to the Hustler, but had a different grill and an operating headlight.  Looked more "clunky" than the Hustler.  Horizontal motor with a worm gear to each axle.  Quite noisy, as were Lionel's diesels. I have one of these in my collection, but don't know how to post pics to this group.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin, WI

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21681 From: corlissbs Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Athearn Hustler
                    There is an Ernst super gearing set for the Athearn Hustler on Ebay now.  These sets are great, but replace the Athearn open frame motor with a can motor and the results will be fantastic.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin,WI
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21682 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
                    Hi All,
                    Actually the Ernst gearing sets are still in production!!! The
                    Huistler set is a little noisy so you have to be really careful
                    intsalling it. It will convert your Hustler to a super slow speed
                    switch engine, complete with flywheel. My Hustler has directional LED
                    lighting to go with it's Ernst gears and is on it's way to getting a
                    dual -mode DCC decoder or MAYBE(?) the MRC mini sound decoder(?).
                    Mr Ernst was a great fan of Athearn locos and designed the gears as
                    an upgrade for his collection. His main business is centered on tools
                    and tool storage. The company is very much in business !!!!

                    Jake Bechtel
                    Gadsden, AL
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21683 From: corlissbs Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
                    Yes, they are still making some of the gearing sets but not the Hustler set.  At least it is not in the Walthers catalog.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                     
                    In a message dated 11/28/2013 2:55:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, jhbivusa@... writes:
                     

                    Hi All,
                    Actually the Ernst gearing sets are still in production!!! The
                    Huistler set is a little noisy so you have to be really careful
                    intsalling it. It will convert your Hustler to a super slow speed
                    switch engine, complete with flywheel. My Hustler has directional LED
                    lighting to go with it's Ernst gears and is on it's way to getting a
                    dual -mode DCC decoder or MAYBE(?) the MRC mini sound decoder(?).
                    Mr Ernst was a great fan of Athearn locos and designed the gears as
                    an upgrade for his collection. His main business is centered on tools
                    and tool storage. The company is very much in business !!!!

                    Jake Bechtel
                    Gadsden, AL

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21684 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
                    On 11/28/2013 3:09 PM, corlissbs@... wrote:
                    Yes, they are still making some of the gearing sets but not the Hustler set.  At least it is not in the Walthers catalog.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                     
                    In a message dated 11/28/2013 2:55:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, jhbivusa@... writes:
                     

                    There's a lot of stuff still being made that's hot in the Walthers catalog (even stiff Walthers sells).  Suppliers have to PAY to have their products listed in the book and not all feel it's worth it.

                    As for Ernest, I have a set in one of my Athearn RDC;s, thinking about going back and picking up another one for my other powered unit.
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21685 From: Mike Date: 11/28/2013
                    Subject: Re: Athearn Hustler
                    Back when you could buy a Hustler for five bucks, I bought a couple. I
                    added Ernst gearing to one and pulled the motor from the other. What I
                    was trying to accomplish to make the set into a "cow and calf" and wired
                    the two cab together to improve what was relatively poor performance (on
                    my marginal layout). My eventual aim was to fully detail the empty
                    interior of the lead "dummy" and use the calf for power. As far as the
                    interior detailing, I never got a round tuit, and I was not overly
                    impressed with the hack job I did on the "calf" or the installation of
                    railings all around. It ran OK, but was never a real star.

                    <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/nvrr_6_4_05_3.html>

                    Most of my many images seem to have been lost when the host system had a
                    crash, but a few remain, including this one.

                    Now all this stuff just sits - I can no longer so much with it, as my
                    vision and general health have declined considerably.

                    Mike

                    On 11/28/2013 5:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                    > On 11/28/2013 3:09 PM, corlissbs@... wrote:
                    >> Yes, they are still making some of the gearing sets but not the
                    >> Hustler set. At least it is not in the Walthers catalog.
                    >> Brad Smith
                    >> In a message dated 11/28/2013 2:55:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                    >> jhbivusa@... writes:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    > There's a lot of stuff still being made that's hot in the Walthers
                    > catalog (even stiff Walthers sells). Suppliers have to PAY to have
                    > their products listed in the book and not all feel it's worth it.
                    >
                    > As for Ernest, I have a set in one of my Athearn RDC;s, thinking about
                    > going back and picking up another one for my other powered unit.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21686 From: Willard Seehorn Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
                    Does Ernest have a web site? Or who carres/lists them?


                    Willard


                    At 05:21 PM 11/28/2013, you wrote:

                    On 11/28/2013 3:09 PM, corlissbs@... wrote:
                    Yes, they are still making some of the gearing sets but not the Hustler set.  At least it is not in the Walthers catalog.
                    Â
                    Brad Smith
                    Â
                    In a message dated 11/28/2013 2:55:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, jhbivusa@... writes:
                     

                    There's a lot of stuff still being made that's hot in the Walthers catalog (even stiff Walthers sells).  Suppliers have to PAY to have their products listed in the book and not all feel it's worth it.

                    As for Ernest, I have a set in one of my Athearn RDC;s, thinking about going back and picking up another one for my other powered unit.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21687 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
                    Here.

                    This is what I mean about not everything they have being in the book

                       http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=&scale=&manu=ernst&item=&keywords=&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search

                    Don

                    On 11/29/2013 7:05 AM, Willard Seehorn wrote:
                    Does Ernest have a web site? Or who carres/lists them?


                    Willard


                    At 05:21 PM 11/28/2013, you wrote:

                    On 11/28/2013 3:09 PM, corlissbs@... wrote:
                    Yes, they are still making some of the gearing sets but not the Hustler set.  At least it is not in the Walthers catalog.
                    Â
                    Brad Smith
                    Â
                    In a message dated 11/28/2013 2:55:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, jhbivusa@... writes:
                     

                    There's a lot of stuff still being made that's hot in the Walthers catalog (even stiff Walthers sells).  Suppliers have to PAY to have their products listed in the book and not all feel it's worth it.

                    As for Ernest, I have a set in one of my Athearn RDC;s, thinking about going back and picking up another one for my other powered unit.


                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21688 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky Locos
                    On 11/28/2013 7:42 AM, corlissbs@... wrote:
                    There were two versions of the Lionel Huskey loco.  The early ones were Athearn rubber band drive Hustlers.  This was when Lionel was buying their trains from Athearn.  There would be an L in a circle on the side of the cab.  I have one lettered Navy Yard, Brooklyn NY.
                     
                    When Lionel started building their own gear drives and bodies, the Huskey changed too.  The body was similar to the Hustler, but had a different grill and an operating headlight.  Looked more "clunky" than the Hustler.  Horizontal motor with a worm gear to each axle.  Quite noisy, as were Lionel's diesels. I have one of these in my collection, but don't know how to post pics to this group.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin, WI

                    Brad;

                    The easiest way is to just attach the pictures, a couple at a time, to  emails.

                    A little more complicated, go to the group home page, click on "photos" and there should be a link to create an album.  In the traditional format, it was near the upper right corner of the page.  If you've been "neued" you'll have to look around.  I haven't been cursed with Yahoo's new format yet so I don't know what it looks like.

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21689 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
                    On 11/29/2013 7:05 AM, Willard Seehorn wrote:
                    Does Ernest have a web site? Or who carres/lists them?


                    Willard
                    I believe this is the actual company.  You can try contacting him directly.

                      http://www.ernstmfg.com/

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21690 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
                    Good point. Sadly, they are Out Of Stock on the 259-2 - Gears for Hustlers.
                    Bill Porter
                    The Acreage - Florida
                    On 11/29/2013 8:37 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                     

                    Here.

                    This is what I mean about not everything they have being in the book

                       http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=&scale=&manu=ernst&item=&keywords=&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search

                    Don


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21691 From: oklacnw Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lionel Husky
                    A friend passed away a few years ago and left me a lot of items. One was a Lionel "Husky" # OO55 (the M&St.L version with geared motor) unfortunately the motor case is broken. Am wondering if any one would have a motor they would be willing to part with? Will pay for it, of course. Because of who it belonged to want to try and get engine working.
                    --
                    Al E.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21692 From: mah644 Date: 11/29/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler

                    First the Good news--there is a set currently listed on eBay now with several days left on the listing.  Now the Bad news--the starting bid plus shipping is $29.95.  The set is for blunt axles and rubber band drive.  Best Wishes--Carl


                    Carl G. Camann

                    Atlanta, GA 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <wpporter@...> wrote:

                    Good point. Sadly, they are Out Of Stock on the 259-2 - Gears for Hustlers.
                    Bill Porter
                    The Acreage - Florida
                    On 11/29/2013 8:37 AM, Don Dellmann wrote:
                     

                    Here.

                    This is what I mean about not everything they have being in the book

                       http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=&scale=&manu=ernst&item=&keywords=&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search

                    Don


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21693 From: nvrr49@yahoo.com Date: 11/30/2013
                    Subject: FSM #155 Coal Dock
                    Attachments :
                    I guess this is a vintage kit, 1976?  About the time I got in to model railroading.
                     
                    Here are some pictures of a project I just completed...only took me a year.  One attached, and several more at the link.


                    http://tinyurl.com/nlb5axe


                    Kent Hurley
                    Kansas City, MO
                    Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/




                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21694 From: Loren Martell Date: 11/30/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
                    I found a phone number for the company who manufactured the Ernst gear set fire Athearn hustlers.  They are located about 30 miles east of me, do I called to see from the if they still made the Athearn Hustler #02 set.  I was told that they are no longer available direct from them.

                    Loren Martell
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21695 From: cwrailman Date: 12/1/2013
                    Subject: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives

                    I am posting this here because I know many vintage locomotives with or without enclosed gear boxes suffer from noisy gears and this process may remedy or at least lessen the problem. For years I have expounded on the benefits of lapping locomotive drive gears as one way of lessening drive gear noise.  In the latest project to come out of the California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops we demonstrate this process using a compound available in most motorcycle shops.  Check out the latest project to see images and watch a video demonstration of this process.

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman 

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21696 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/1/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                    On 12/1/2013 10:28 AM, cwrailman@... wrote:
                    > I am posting this here because I know many vintage locomotives with or
                    > without enclosed gear boxes suffer from noisy gears and this process may
                    > remedy or at least lessen the problem. For years I have expounded on the
                    > benefits of lapping locomotive drive gears as one way of lessening drive
                    > gear noise.In the latest /project to come out of the California Western
                    > Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops <http://cwrailman.com/>/ we demonstrate
                    > this process using a compound available in most motorcycle shops.Check
                    > out the latest project to see images and watch a video demonstration of
                    > this process.

                    I have several brass diesels and articulated steam locomotives that
                    have enclosed vertical gear towers that are quite noisy. How would this
                    be done on one of those?

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are
                    moving.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21697 From: cwrailman Date: 12/1/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives

                     

                    Rick,

                    Depending on the model, I would suggest you remove the gearbox, or gear tower from the chassis, As I indicated that is what I normally do but did not do for my demonstration.  Then find a way to keep the gears reasonable submersed in the compound while rotating at about mid RPM.  After the process the assembly has to be completely cleaned of the compound used.

                     

                    By the way, if talking about something like the PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2, most of the noise in that model is from the vertical gear tower however the motor itself does contribute some noise.  The gear boxes in that model are usually reasonably quiet.

                     

                    O n a diesel, such as the few brass diesels that have come through our shops, you could fill the gearboxes in each truck with the compound and let them run in.  I could not find our lapping compound (which had already disappeared) when the ALC O S-1 diesel was in the shops for remotoring (see our Projects page for that project) otherwise I would have lapped those gears. When working with plastic or nylon gears I would cut the time down to about 10 minutes in each direction.

                     

                    This process also works well when quieting gear driven loco’s such as Shays, Climax and Heislers which have metal to metal gearing.

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman 



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

                    On 12/1/2013 10:28 AM, cwrailman@... wrote:
                    > I am posting this here because I know many vintage locomotives with or
                    > without enclosed gear boxes suffer from noisy gears and this process may
                    > remedy or at least lessen the problem. For years I have expounded on the
                    > benefits of lapping locomotive drive gears as one way of lessening drive
                    > gear noise.In the latest /project to come out of the California Western
                    > Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops <http://cwrailman.com/>/ we demonstrate
                    > this process using a compound available in most motorcycle shops.Check
                    > out the latest project to see images and watch a video demonstration of
                    > this process.

                    I have several brass diesels and articulated steam locomotives that
                    have enclosed vertical gear towers that are quite noisy. How would this
                    be done on one of those?

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are
                    moving.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21698 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/1/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                    On 12/1/2013 4:52 PM, cwrailman@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Rick,
                    >
                    > Depending on the model, I would suggest you remove the gearbox, or gear
                    > tower from the chassis, As I indicated that is what I normally do but
                    > did not do for my demonstration.Then find a way to keep the gears
                    > reasonable submersed in the compound while rotating at about mid
                    > RPM.After the process the assembly has to be completely cleaned of the
                    > compound used.
                    >
                    > By the way, if talking about something like the PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2, most
                    > of the noise in that model is from the vertical gear tower however the
                    > motor itself does contribute some noise.The gear boxes in that model are
                    > usually reasonably quiet.
                    >
                    > O n a diesel, such as the few brass diesels that have come through our
                    > shops, you could fill the gearboxes in each truck with the compound and
                    > let them run in.I could not find our lapping compound (which had already
                    > disappeared) when the ALC O S-1 diesel was in the shops for remotoring
                    > (see our Projects page for that project) otherwise I would have lapped
                    > those gears. When working with plastic or nylon gears I would cut the
                    > time down to about 10 minutes in each direction.

                    The locos in question are a pair of Tenshodo Great Northern
                    articulateds which have a vertical gear tower between the driver sets.
                    These squeal like banshees when they run.
                    There's also a Hallmark GP-9, which has a gear tower on one truck
                    and uses a nylon shaft connecting that truck to the other to transfer
                    power. There's also a Soho UP turbine and an Alco Models C-855. These
                    are all grinders when they run and would down out any sound decoder
                    installed in them.
                    So remove the gear towers, put lapping compound inside and close
                    them back up, and connect them to some kind of motor to spin them for a
                    period of time.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    "Art is anything you can get away with."
                    -Marshall McLuhan
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21699 From: oklacnw Date: 12/1/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernst Gears for Athearn Hustler
                    I have installed Ernst gears in several Athearn engines, but having problem getting them to work in the Hustler. Any one have suggestions? New motor?
                    --
                    Al E.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21700 From: cwrailman Date: 12/1/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives

                    Rick,

                    You have the idea.  The external motor is a very good idea.  Just don’t wind it up to full power.  Keep it about the RPM it would be spinning when the model is in operation at half throttle.  O n that GP 9 I would first lap the gears in the tower and see how much it reduces the noise then do each truck separately.  You may be surprised.

                    O ne more thing, let us know how the process works out for you.  If you have a video camera shoot the before and after so you have a basis to judge your progress and see if it was worth your time.

                    Denny

                    Janitor in Training

                    CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

                    WEB site: CWRailman.com 

                    Facebook: CWRailman  



                    ---In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

                    On 12/1/2013 4:52 PM, cwrailman@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Rick,
                    >
                    > Depending on the model, I would suggest you remove the gearbox, or gear
                    > tower from the chassis, As I indicated that is what I normally do but
                    > did not do for my demonstration.Then find a way to keep the gears
                    > reasonable submersed in the compound while rotating at about mid
                    > RPM.After the process the assembly has to be completely cleaned of the
                    > compound used.
                    >
                    > By the way, if talking about something like the PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2, most
                    > of the noise in that model is from the vertical gear tower however the
                    > motor itself does contribute some noise.The gear boxes in that model are
                    > usually reasonably quiet.
                    >
                    > O n a diesel, such as the few brass diesels that have come through our
                    > shops, you could fill the gearboxes in each truck with the compound and
                    > let them run in.I could not find our lapping compound (which had already
                    > disappeared) when the ALC O S-1 diesel was in the shops for remotoring
                    > (see our Projects page for that project) otherwise I would have lapped
                    > those gears. When working with plastic or nylon gears I would cut the
                    > time down to about 10 minutes in each direction.

                    The locos in question are a pair of Tenshodo Great Northern
                    articulateds which have a vertical gear tower between the driver sets.
                    These squeal like banshees when they run.
                    There's also a Hallmark GP-9, which has a gear tower on one truck
                    and uses a nylon shaft connecting that truck to the other to transfer
                    power. There's also a Soho UP turbine and an Alco Models C-855. These
                    are all grinders when they run and would down out any sound decoder
                    installed in them.
                    So remove the gear towers, put lapping compound inside and close
                    them back up, and connect them to some kind of motor to spin them for a
                    period of time.

                    --

                    Rick Jones

                    "Art is anything you can get away with."
                    -Marshall McLuhan
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21701 From: Jim Waterman Date: 12/2/2013
                    Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                    If you fill gearboxes with lapping compound, run them in, but then flush them out and replace with a good lube! This stuff will keep working so you don’t want it in there forever!
                     
                    Jim Waterman
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21702 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/2/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler

                    Hi Loren,
                    Sure, give them a call.  I am sure there are lots of Hustler owners these days who would love to add gears to them, assuming a decent price.  The only real alternative these days is to use a pricey NWSL solution.  The original rubber band setup was not really the best for a lot of different reasons.  
                    Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC


                    To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
                    From: saltnpepper69@...
                    Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 19:21:17 -0800
                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler

                     
                    I found a phone number for the company who manufactured the Ernst gear set fire Athearn hustlers.  They are located about 30 miles east of me, do I called to see from the if they still made the Athearn Hustler #02 set.  I was told that they are no longer available direct from them.

                    Loren Martell

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21703 From: david_helber Date: 12/2/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    Sorry for the delay in following up - I've been off the group for some time, dealing with holiday guests and other issues. I did get a response back from Mike at Alpine Division models. He says:


                    "At this time we do not have drive belts in stock.  We are working on getting some made, but it is taking a long time as we have to get the price down."

                    So, for the moment at least, no relief here for those of us seeking spring belts.

                    But - now that I'm back, I see that Jeff says:

                     "Somewhere I have original replacement springs for the Lindberg SW-1s so I can probably get you one.  However, those springs can be found in high pressure oil seals used for shafts in cars and other machinery.  I found out at work when I was replacing them.  I've saved a number of them to use as drive belts, someday.  They're neat because one end threads into the other to make the loop and so they can be unthreaded, cut to length and threaded back together.  Assuming you still need it, I will try to dig them out."


                    Wow! That would be great, Jeff - if the offer is still good, and if you can locate it without too much trouble. I'll send you a personal e-mail to discuss the details. I'm not visualizing too well how the spring coil belts are used for seals (unless they're embedded in the rubber or other material), but I can probably come up with some info on the web. Thanks.


                    -- David



                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <dnhelber@...> wrote:

                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21704 From: david_helber Date: 12/2/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    Speaking of drive belts, does anyone know whether the original belts for the Lionel GP-7 were spring or rubber? 

                    -- D






                    ---In vintageho@yahoogroups.com, <dnhelber@...> wrote:

                    Does anybody still make spring-belt drives like many of the early HO manufacturers used, or the spring material from which to make your own?

                    -- David
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21705 From: Loren Martell Date: 12/3/2013
                    Subject: Re: Ernest gears (was) Athearn Hustler
                    Good morning Vic & group,

                    I apologize for my previous post.
                    When I re-read it, I now see how confusing it came out.  Not to shirk my responsibilities, but this new phone is driving me nuts.

                    What I was trying to communicate was that I had called the folks at Ernst manufacturing to inquire if they still made their #02 gearing set for Athearn Hustlers or if they happened to have any old stock.
                    Their reply was that they are no longer making this item, nor do they have any old stock available.

                    As an aside, I do happen to have 3 or 4 NIP  ( New In Package ) of these gear sets that I was going to use to convert some of my fleet of Athearn Hustlers, but it doesn't appear that I will get to these projects.

                     If anyone is interested in a NIP Ernst #02 gear set, please contact me off list, with an offer.

                    Thank you,

                    Loren Martell
                    Beaverton, OR 97006
                    503-810-9018


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21706 From: jbark76 Date: 12/4/2013
                    Subject: Re: Spring Belt Drives???

                    I have posted some photos showing the "oil seal" I was talking about.  The seal has a spring to hold it against a shaft (gearbox, pump, motor, etc).  The spring will pop out with a fingernail or small screwdriver.  There is a joint in the spring that can be un-screwed so it will straighten out.  It can be cut to any length and screwed back together.  (If you need a longer one, you should be able to us 2 springs coupled end to end.)  The number on the seal I have is A11642 it has a 45mm ID (inside diameter) and a 60mm OD (outside diameter).  I keep these whenever I come across them at work, but Google, an auto parts store, or farm equipment store may have something like it.

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21707 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/10/2013
                    Subject: Gorre & Daphetid Cars
                    Hi All

                    Here are some pictures of my Gorre & Dephatid Cars.
                    Passenger Cars, Combinr, Coach, Coach (Includes the 1 previously sent) - http://jpegbay.com/gallery/003222026-.html#1

                    Enjoy the pictures.

                    Garrett (Garry) Spear

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21708 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/12/2013
                    Subject: Mantua switchers
                    Does anyone know when Mantua first offered the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 switchers?  Someone has indicated to me that there may be a connection between the Mantua and Gilbert Switchers, but I am pretty sure that Gilbert was first, in 1949, at least based on the catalogs on hoseeker.  Not only that, but they are quite different body castings.  Also, is there a guide to Mantua trains, like there is to Varney and Athearn?   I couldn't find one.

                    Thanks

                    Dale Smith
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21709 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/15/2013
                    Subject: Mystery car sides
                    This auction just finished on eBay and the maker of these car sides in unknown.

                    Can someone identify the maker of these embossed metal freight car sides??

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/360808436353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

                    It is a lovely bundle of about 98 car side sets.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21710 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    Hi Mike, et. al.

                    The sides are Athearn.  Look at HOSeeker >> http://hoseeker.net/ << for positive identification.

                    Garrett (Garry) Spear


                    On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                     

                    This auction just finished on eBay and the maker of these car sides in unknown.

                    Can someone identify the maker of these embossed metal freight car sides??

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/360808436353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

                    It is a lovely bundle of about 98 car side sets.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21711 From: erieberk Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21712 From: erieberk Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    Depends what you mean by "0-4-0 Switcher," as there were 3 different Mantua
                    0-4-0 Switchers. The Mantua 0-4-0 Roundhouse Goat -- also described (by
                    Mantua) as the 0-4-0 Camelback Switcher, was first produced in 1941. This
                    (Kit No. 204) Camelback Switcher was reintroduced right after the War, in1945.

                    The Mantua (Kit No. 207) Mighty Mite 0-4-0 Switcher was first produced in
                    1948. It was discontinued by 1951 when the Mantua (Kit No. 209) The Shifter
                    0-4-0 Switcher was brought out. They look very similar to each other, so
                    much so that perhaps only the kit number changed < g >.

                    The Mantua (Kit No. 206) Busy 'Little B' was first produced in 1948 also.
                    This was discontinued by 1951 when the Mantua (Kit No. 213) The Booster
                    0-4-0 Tank Loco was introduced. These two locomotives also looked so similar to
                    each other, that it could appear that only the kit number was changed on
                    these two kits as well.

                    Mantua hadn't produced any 0-6-0 Switchers at least up until 1953.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    </HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21713 From: erieberk Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    Sorry about the two typos. The Mantua No. 206 and No. 207 were still
                    produced through 1951 but were discontinued by 1952. Likewise, the Mantua No.
                    209 and No. 213 weren't introduced until 1952.

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21714 From: Richard Kurz Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    They look like Athearn  to me.

                    Rich


                    On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:45 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                     
                    This auction just finished on eBay and the maker of these car sides in unknown.

                    Can someone identify the maker of these embossed metal freight car sides??

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/360808436353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

                    It is a lovely bundle of about 98 car side sets.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21715 From: Larry Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    Looks like the old Athearn line to me, too.
                    Nice collection of sides and went fairly reasonably priced imho.
                    Larry Miller III


                    On Monday, December 16, 2013 9:09 AM, Richard Kurz <beare518@...> wrote:


                    They look like Athearn  to me.

                    Rich


                    On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:45 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                     
                    This auction just finished on eBay and the maker of these car sides in unknown.

                    Can someone identify the maker of these embossed metal freight car sides??

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/360808436353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

                    It is a lovely bundle of about 98 car side sets.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA







                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21716 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    They made  Mantua 0-6-0T and 0-6-0 with tender kits sometime after 1958 when I got into HO.  I built one of the 0-6-0 tender versions with valve gear and moved the headlight to the center of the smokebox door and replaced the air pump with a modern version with the running board cut out and raised above the pump.

                    Don Staton in VA
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 12/16/2013 8:05 AM, erieberk@... wrote:
                     

                    Depends what you mean by "0-4-0 Switcher," as there were 3 different Mantua
                    0-4-0 Switchers. The Mantua 0-4-0 Roundhouse Goat -- also described (by
                    Mantua) as the 0-4-0 Camelback Switcher, was first produced in 1941. This
                    (Kit No. 204) Camelback Switcher was reintroduced right after the War, in1945.

                    The Mantua (Kit No. 207) Mighty Mite 0-4-0 Switcher was first produced in
                    1948. It was discontinued by 1951 when the Mantua (Kit No. 209) The Shifter
                    0-4-0 Switcher was brought out. They look very similar to each other, so
                    much so that perhaps only the kit number changed < g >.

                    The Mantua (Kit No. 206) Busy 'Little B' was first produced in 1948 also.
                    This was discontinued by 1951 when the Mantua (Kit No. 213) The Booster
                    0-4-0 Tank Loco was introduced. These two locomotives also looked so similar to
                    each other, that it could appear that only the kit number was changed on
                    these two kits as well.

                    Mantua hadn't produced any 0-6-0 Switchers at least up until 1953.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    </HTML>


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21717 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    It was actually the 0-6-0 switcher (Big 6) that I was most concerned with.   I am always collecting information for the gilbertho.org website and recent information from a former Gilbert employee that Mantua may have had a role in the Gilbert 0-6-0 switcher seemed a bit unlikely to me, so I just wanted to confirm that the Mantua 0-6-0 was later than the Gilbert version, thus making this connection unlikely.  Thanks for the confirmation, Ray.

                    Also on the question of a guide to Mantua trains, does one exist?

                    Dale
                    On 12/16/2013 5:05 AM, erieberk@... wrote:
                    Mantua hadn't produced any 0-6-0 Switchers at least up until 1953.

                    Ray Wetzel

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21718 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    Thank you guys!

                    The car sides are being shipped to me.

                    They were offered about a month ago and I missed them with no one bidding for them. I was hoping and watching for them to be offered again.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                    On Dec 16, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Looks like the old Athearn line to me, too.
                    > Nice collection of sides and went fairly reasonably priced imho.
                    > Larry Miller III
                    >
                    >
                    > On Monday, December 16, 2013 9:09 AM, Richard Kurz <beare518@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > They look like Athearn to me.
                    >
                    > Rich
                    >
                    >
                    > On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:45 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                    > This auction just finished on eBay and the maker of these car sides in unknown.
                    >
                    > Can someone identify the maker of these embossed metal freight car sides??
                    >
                    > http://www.ebay.com/itm/360808436353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
                    >
                    > It is a lovely bundle of about 98 car side sets.
                    >
                    > Best to ya...
                    > Mike Bauers
                    > Milwaukee, Wi, USA
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21719 From: John Hagen Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers

                    Best you’re going to find is http://hoseeker.net/

                     

                    Just click on the Mantua name and you will find lots of old Mantua catalogs, assembly instructions and parts lists/diagrams.

                     

                    So far as a possible connection between the Gilbert Pennsy 0-6-0 and the Mantua Big Six (or any other Mantua loco), there ain’t not any. While there were instances of one manufacturer building all or parts of a model for another manufacturer back in the day, the connection was always relatively easy to spot in the finished product, usually in the shell or superstructure. There just is not anything in the Gilbert 0-6-0 that vaguely resembles the Big Six other than the number of drivers.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Smith
                    Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 1:26 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua switchers

                     

                     

                    It was actually the 0-6-0 switcher (Big 6) that I was most concerned with.   I am always collecting information for the gilbertho.org website and recent information from a former Gilbert employee that Mantua may have had a role in the Gilbert 0-6-0 switcher seemed a bit unlikely to me, so I just wanted to confirm that the Mantua 0-6-0 was later than the Gilbert version, thus making this connection unlikely.  Thanks for the confirmation, Ray.

                    Also on the question of a guide to Mantua trains, does one exist?

                    Dale

                    On 12/16/2013 5:05 AM, erieberk@... wrote:

                    Mantua hadn't produced any 0-6-0 Switchers at least up until 1953.

                    Ray Wetzel

                     

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21720 From: John Hagen Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides

                    Dang you Bauers. You keep buying crap I want to buy.

                     

                    John HAgen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers
                    Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 2:18 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery car sides

                     

                     

                    Thank you guys!

                    The car sides are being shipped to me.

                    They were offered about a month ago and I missed them with no one bidding for them. I was hoping and watching for them to be offered again.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA

                    On Dec 16, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Looks like the old Athearn line to me, too.
                    > Nice collection of sides and went fairly reasonably priced imho.
                    > Larry Miller III
                    >
                    >
                    > On Monday, December 16, 2013 9:09 AM, Richard Kurz <beare518@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > They look like Athearn to me.
                    >
                    > Rich
                    >
                    >
                    > On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:45 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                    > This auction just finished on eBay and the maker of these car sides in unknown.
                    >
                    > Can someone identify the maker of these embossed metal freight car sides??
                    >
                    > http://www.ebay.com/itm/360808436353?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
                    >
                    > It is a lovely bundle of about 98 car side sets.
                    >
                    > Best to ya...
                    > Mike Bauers
                    > Milwaukee, Wi, USA

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21721 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    On 12/16/2013 2:17 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    > Thank you guys!
                    >
                    > The car sides are being shipped to me.
                    >
                    > They were offered about a month ago and I missed them with no one bidding for them. I was hoping and watching for them to be offered again.
                    >
                    > Best to ya...
                    > Mike Bauers
                    > Milwaukee, Wi, USA
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    If I'd have known it was you I would have bid in them! <GR&R>

                    If you ever decide you're not going to use them you know where I live!

                    Don

                    Don Dellmann don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21722 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    The only Gilbert - Mantua connection is the Frontiersman old timers which are repainted Generals with a different stack.   (Virtually all Gilbert items made by contractors had some slight difference added to distinguish them.) 

                    Maybe someone can take the mantua catalogs and literature and build a guide from that.   That is how the gilbertho.org got started.   Then people offered photos of their collections and bits of information about the different items and it started to grow.

                    As to hoseeker.net, I use it frequently.

                    Dale

                    On 12/16/2013 12:24 PM, John Hagen wrote:
                     

                    Best you’re going to find is http://hoseeker.net/

                     

                    Just click on the Mantua name and you will find lots of old Mantua catalogs, assembly instructions and parts lists/diagrams.

                     

                    So far as a possible connection between the Gilbert Pennsy 0-6-0 and the Mantua Big Six (or any other Mantua loco), there ain’t not any. While there were instances of one manufacturer building all or parts of a model for another manufacturer back in the day, the connection was always relatively easy to spot in the finished product, usually in the shell or superstructure. There just is not anything in the Gilbert 0-6-0 that vaguely resembles the Big Six other than the number of drivers.

                     

                    John Hagen

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Smith
                    Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 1:26 PM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua switchers

                     

                     

                    It was actually the 0-6-0 switcher (Big 6) that I was most concerned with.   I am always collecting information for the gilbertho.org website and recent information from a former Gilbert employee that Mantua may have had a role in the Gilbert 0-6-0 switcher seemed a bit unlikely to me, so I just wanted to confirm that the Mantua 0-6-0 was later than the Gilbert version, thus making this connection unlikely.  Thanks for the confirmation, Ray.

                    Also on the question of a guide to Mantua trains, does one exist?

                    Dale

                    On 12/16/2013 5:05 AM, erieberk@... wrote:

                    Mantua hadn't produced any 0-6-0 Switchers at least up until 1953.

                    Ray Wetzel

                     


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21723 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/16/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    I bought them for a photo-real idea I have in mind.

                    I want to see if the original sides will fit something like an Accurail boxcar with I hope to see separate ladders on the donor car kit. At the moment it's the best boxcar kit I can think of using and often turns up in hobby shop discount sales.

                    I just downloaded a slew of grain door images and data with expectations to draw up to make classic boxcar grain cars.

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                    On Dec 16, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    > On 12/16/2013 2:17 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    >> Thank you guys!
                    >>
                    >> The car sides are being shipped to me.
                    >>
                    >> They were offered about a month ago and I missed them with no one bidding for them. I was hoping and watching for them to be offered again.
                    >>
                    >> Best to ya...
                    >> Mike Bauers
                    >> Milwaukee, Wi, USA
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    > If I'd have known it was you I would have bid in them! <GR&R>
                    >
                    > If you ever decide you're not going to use them you know where I live!
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    > Don Dellmann don.dellmann@...
                    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21724 From: oklacnw Date: 12/17/2013
                    Subject: Re: Sides
                    Athearn- I built several of these years ago.
                    --
                    Al E.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21725 From: raymarinaccio Date: 12/17/2013
                    Subject: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21726 From: erieberk Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mantua switchers
                    Dale,

                    As you may have guessed, I know of no Greenberg's Mantua Guide; I don't
                    believe there has been one.

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21727 From: Dave Audley Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    Hans Madson, past owner of H&D/Hobby West, knew Irv Athearn, and visited him
                    often. Hans told of seeing a pile of these Pacifics in a corner of the LA factory and
                    asked Irv why they weren't being sold. Apparently, they couldn't get this model to
                    run effectively and the pile of models was going to the landfill! Hans asked to have
                    one for his collection but was told no. I am surprised this one is here, and I wonder
                    what the back storey is!
                    Dave Audley

                    --------------------------------------------
                    On Tue, 12/17/13, raymarinaccio@... <raymarinaccio@...> wrote:

                    Subject: [vintageHO] One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Tuesday, December 17, 2013, 10:37 PM
















                     









                    I came across this while browsing Ebay.http://www.ebay.com/itm/111239627686?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649%c2%a0IT
                    DOES EXIST.
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21728 From: erieberk Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    Mike,

                    Nice catch, especially if you need to fill in some missing car numbers in
                    your Athearn metal collection. I see you're intending on using them for
                    kitbashing though. This would be quite suitable, especially if these are the
                    more common car side numbers (such as what Menzies continued to carry), but
                    there are some car numbers which are still quite scarce. Probably the best
                    use you could put any scarcer car sides to would be to install them on an
                    Athearn metal kit -- even if it's a Menzies, D.J. Baker or Brua (Park Varieties)
                    metal kit, then use the sides from them for kitbashing. Or, if any of
                    these sides are scarce, you may be able to recoup your expenses just by selling
                    off two or three sets of the rarest one (if there are any).

                    Ray Wetzel </HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21729 From: corlissbs Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    It couldn't have run any worse than the two production models.  I had one as a teenager.  It was the metal driver model, which was the final revision and it was a lousy runner.  But it looked great.  I now own both the plastic driver model and the metal driver model, both NIB and B&M.  They sure do look good.  There is an article in the B&M Historical Society newsletter on how to rework the metal driver model to make it run well.  I had thoughts of reworking mine, but I realize that I will probably never do it and will sell the Pacifics some day.  I did enjoy looking at the original design Pacific though.  I am a "student" of HO drives and I believe I have every one of the Athearn diesel drives.  Until Athearn came out with their first diesel drive, everything was just a variation of the same drive. (Walthers, English, Penn Line, etc.)  Irv made the first breakthrough that was different, cheap and easy to manufacturer.  Then came Mantua with a bulletproof drive that outpowered everything.  I wonder who will pay 3K for the Pacific?
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin,WI
                     
                     
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21730 From: Dave Audley Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    I had always been told that none of the Pacifics survived! Interesting! Maybe these sould
                    be donated to the new Sacromento Model Railway museum!
                    Dave Audley

                    --------------------------------------------
                    On Wed, 12/18/13, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote:

                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Wednesday, December 18, 2013, 6:25 AM
















                     












                    It couldn't have run any worse than the two
                    production models.  I had
                    one as a teenager.  It was the metal driver model,
                    which was the final
                    revision and it was a lousy runner.  But it looked
                    great.  I now own
                    both the plastic driver model and the metal driver model,
                    both NIB and
                    B&M.  They sure do look good.  There is an
                    article in the B&M
                    Historical Society newsletter on how to rework the metal
                    driver model to make it
                    run well.  I had thoughts of reworking mine, but I
                    realize that I will
                    probably never do it and will sell the Pacifics some
                    day.  I did enjoy
                    looking at the original design Pacific though.  I am a
                    "student" of HO
                    drives and I believe I have every one of the Athearn diesel
                    drives.  Until
                    Athearn came out with their first diesel drive, everything
                    was just a variation
                    of the same drive. (Walthers, English, Penn Line,
                    etc.)  Irv made the first
                    breakthrough that was different, cheap and easy to
                    manufacturer.  Then came
                    Mantua with a bulletproof drive that outpowered
                    everything.  I wonder who
                    will pay 3K for the Pacific?
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin,WI
                     
                     
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21731 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    I hadn't thought some may be rare.

                    Where can I go to see which may be the rare ones, just the known to be common ones?

                    My thinking was to make use of a sampling of about one pair from the duplicate numbers as direct models.

                    My big interest is to see if some sort of photo duplication can become accurate and very real looking models from the otherwise untouched originals. Even to variations of grain doors inside the models.

                    I definitely prefer to work with photo-real variations of the sides. That allows me to do tricks like make a train worth of merchandise express cars with different individual numbers starting from one original car side.

                    I just got hold of one of the old Ambroid pre-decorated Unicel insulated boxcar kits to morph the sides into about ten matching cars. That may be as a next generation version with plug doors to confound the purist, strict prototype addicts. What should have been RR cars....

                    That car has what looks like featureless plywood sides with no welding or rivet details. The Ambroid model even lacks some sort of depiction of a possible seam on the side panels. I wouldn't mind adding that if I can see the like on a pic of the prototype.

                    Back to the Athearn car sides.

                    I wanted them mostly for the Lost Flag roads they depict and their fitting in with my chosen era. My goal is to make use of them without actually putting them to use as much as possible.

                    If I find a few clusters of the metal kit cars I'm more inclined to actually model with some of the sides. The biggest trick is to find any sort of kit that has those contemporary to the era embossed ends with no cast on ladders or brake rigging. Any run of the Athearn metal car kits would be ideal, even making castings of those ends and doors would be close enough for this project.

                    I do have stored away duplicate parts from when Walthers carried the later reruns of the Athearn metal kits.

                    What strikes me is that the real ends and doors are stamped metal panels that look a lot like what Vac-u-Formed model parts would be.

                    Maybe Vac'd parts would make for great representations of the stamped metal parts. I do have the update parts for the old Mattel Vac-Form tool/toy I had as a boy and another I got from a garage sale some time ago. Vac'ing those parts would be so similar to working with scale versions of the real world parts. The project then becomes more of an assembled scratch build that can use a thick sheet styrene box core to the model. Building with thick sheet styrene core bodies instead of with the milled stripwood model RR car parts appeals to me.

                    One more 'Yet'....

                    In the gathered 'collection' of Hobby kits is one of the last runs of the 'something' Valley, Red Ball car core bare kits. In that the car core is basically a milled 2x4 reduced to be the inner form of a model RR car with a lower center of gravity and except for the car side that you were to buy separately, had the rest of the castings needed to build the RR car model boxcar. I've long wanted to build several cars from that as a design pattern. I do think I will build several RR cars in both the styrene box and the Quick Kits core styles over the next several months. I might keep it down to buying trucks, couplers, and brake wheels while fab'ing all of the rest of the cars in the workshop.

                    With modern model Chinese built RR cars ranging $25-$50, I might be doing the like for well under $5 a car not counting trucks and couplers. Almost a 'dollar-car' like the old articles. The needed tools were bought years ago and this would be just one more project for them. So a trip to the local plastic sheet supplier for thickish styrene cut-offs and a conversion of the now unused 2x4 constructed bike rack in the garage would yield a lot of material for coming months.

                    I'll dust off the old photo duplicating stand and cut some wood car core blocks over the next two weeks plant shutdown and have some fun.

                    The car sides will arrive sometime over the next few days.


                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:05 AM, erieberk@... wrote:

                    > Mike,
                    >
                    > Nice catch, especially if you need to fill in some missing car numbers in
                    > your Athearn metal collection. I see you're intending on using them for
                    > kitbashing though. This would be quite suitable, especially if these are the
                    > more common car side numbers (such as what Menzies continued to carry), but
                    > there are some car numbers which are still quite scarce. Probably the best
                    > use you could put any scarcer car sides to would be to install them on an
                    > Athearn metal kit -- even if it's a Menzies, D.J. Baker or Brua (Park Varieties)
                    > metal kit, then use the sides from them for kitbashing. Or, if any of
                    > these sides are scarce, you may be able to recoup your expenses just by selling
                    > off two or three sets of the rarest one (if there are any).
                    >
                    > Ray Wetzel
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21732 From: gssfhc_wvc Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Penn Line T-1 Tender

                    I am looking for a Penn Line T-1 Tender rear casting, or some pictures that can be used to fabricate one, I have the kit, but it is missing the rear casting

                     

                    Randy

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21733 From: vancampbell64 Date: 12/18/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype

                    OMG! This is absolutely the Holy Grail of Athearn collectibles! There's no way I could even dream of obtaining this piece, so I'm downloading the photos for posterity! This gem will, more than likely, disappear into someones collection and may never, ever, be seen again! That's a sobering thought, thinking back to an earlier conversation on this site concerning how much value our current and future generations will place on such items! I'm already experiencing anxious thoughts about estate sales and what happens to unsold items! I strongly agree with Dave! Some credible institution needs to snatch this up and preserve it for (there's that word again!) posterity! Let's all hope that we can at least keep track of this wonderful piece for ours' and Irv's sake! (Even though he did try to hide this experiment from history!)


                    Van B. Campbell

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21734 From: erieberk Date: 12/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    Mike,

                    There's no definitive listings of scarcer or rarer than normal production
                    Athearn metal car sides. If you have Dallas Mallerich's 'Greenberg's Guide
                    to Athearn Trains' you'll see which reporting numbers were in some serious
                    collector's collections at that time (1987), and while this will at least give
                    you an idea of what was produced, it still won't tell you these numbers'
                    comparative production runs (or the existing presence of any particular runs
                    to date).

                    However, as I was in the position where I knew many of the other Athearn
                    collectors/contributors (Brua, Doiron, Horan, Poppenga, Scott and others) to
                    Dallas' book personally to the extent of visiting some at their homes or
                    frequently getting together with some as a group at the many train shows during
                    that time, we all exchanged notes on the relative availability of Irv's
                    productions. This opportunity has given me at least a fair idea of what's
                    common and what's scarcer when I compare the data to my own Athearn metal
                    collection and the frequency I've come across all these car side numbers. My
                    Athearn metal collection consists of about 88% of the 900+ road numbers Athearn
                    produced for all his roadnames, a small number of them found after the book
                    was published not having been known yet by any of the other prominent
                    collectors of the time, and not being included in the book. Also, when we all
                    compared notes, we would learn from each other which numbers were harder to find.

                    While this isn't any exact science in determining the relative existance of
                    any particular side numbers to others, I've been able to get a fairly good
                    idea of how easy (or hard) it is to locate -- or to have located at the time
                    the Guide came out -- these roadnumbers. One other advantage in my favor
                    is that I have the complete (and indexed) set of all of Dave Spanagel's "The
                    Reporting Mark" (HO SC&H SIG NMRA) at my disposal that all of us and many
                    others contributed to, indicating all known Athearn car side numbers during
                    those years. If you'd like to list your reporting numbers with their
                    reporting marks, I'll give a stab at trying to determine how rare some of your sides
                    might be, and will let you know which ones are the most common numbers by
                    far.

                    Your proposed project sounds quite interesting to say the least. I hope
                    you'll be posting some pics of the results of your efforts when you get some
                    of them done.

                    Ray Wetzel .

                    </HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21735 From: erieberk Date: 12/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    Now, just where is that landfill located where just about every other
                    pre-production Pacific was dumped - LOL- ? PLastic doesn't rot and zamac doesn't
                    rust away, so there may be a fortune in models somewhere just waiting for
                    someone to dig it up < g >.

                    R.F. Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21736 From: erieberk Date: 12/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    Randy,

                    Try going up to HO Seekers < HOSeekers.net > and look for Bowser catalog
                    contents where the T-1 should be found. If there's an exploded view of all
                    the parts, including the T-1's tender (which I would expect), that should give
                    you the info you need. Otherwise, let me know if you want me to snail mail
                    you a copy of the T-1 instructions which shows what you're looking for.

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21737 From: vancampbell64 Date: 12/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype

                    Hi Brad, I too am an avid collector of the early Athearn drives and sets made prior to the Blue Box iron flywheel era. I also believe that I have several of every variation made including the "aftermarket versions" such as the Pittman gear reduction and early Globe drives. With well over 100 Yellow Box Era examples in my collection, I can truly say that I've seen just about every variation there is when it comes to these diesel drives. I also have all three examples of Athearn's steam locomotive models, the Lil' Monster, the 0-6-0 switcher, and like yours, the 2nd issue of the 4-6-2 Pacific w/metal drivers and tender pickup. This is where I have to take exemption to your analysis of their running characteristics. I acquired mine in a MIB #4182 set a couple of years ago. As with all new acquisitions, I run, or attempt to run, them on a test loop before I tear them down for a thorough cleaning, lubing, and replacement of anything worn or missing before placing them in my collection. Against all expectation, the Pacific passed a battery of tests without missing a beat and ran as smooth as any of my Athearn/Globe Dual Drive mechanisms(considered by some to be the best Athearn drive ever)! As the adage goes; If it ain't broke, don't fix it! As with any production line model, yours just needs a little tweaking and adjustment to run fine! I also have numerous Tyco Red Box Era steam locomotive sets, and every one of them has needed and benefited enormously from a thorough cleaning and fine tuning! Sure, these vintage drives can never be in the same league as a new Genesis or Proto, but the can be made to run just fine for those who have reasonable expectations of what to expect from a mechanical device designed and manufactured some 50-60 years ago! As a side note: Run the Hi-F Drives in tandem, and you'll experience a totally different animal! Most all the negative operating characteristics disappear when doing so and you'll have a smooth running, hard pulling set comparable to the Pittman! 


                    Van B. Campbell

                    Florissant, CO



                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21738 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/19/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    I have three different Athearn Pacifics...
                    1.  Plastic drivers, tire edges not painted, mounted on aluminum axles with a large drum on the non geared axles.  The rear axle has a metal gear as part of the axle and the motor is mounted upside down with a brass worm.  Fine tuning and bearing shims made this item run well in spite of all pick up in the tender.
                    2.  Plastic drivers with white rims, plastic gear on center driver axle with a worm housing around the axle and supporting the brass worm gear on the driver gear.  Axles were black but I do not remember if they were plastic or metal.  All pickup in tender.  It also ran fine after servicing.
                    3.  Metal drivers held together at the middle of the axle with a plastic drum. Same gear arrangement as #2 and all pickup is in loco.

                    I never saw a pre-production model before either.

                    Happy railroading...  Merry Christmas.

                    Don Staton in VA
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 12/19/2013 12:02 PM, tehachapikid@... wrote:
                     

                    Hi Brad, I too am an avid collector of the early Athearn drives and sets made prior to the Blue Box iron flywheel era. I also believe that I have several of every variation made including the "aftermarket versions" such as the Pittman gear reduction and early Globe drives. With well over 100 Yellow Box Era examples in my collection, I can truly say that I've seen just about every variation there is when it comes to these diesel drives. I also have all three examples of Athearn's steam locomotive models, the Lil' Monster, the 0-6-0 switcher, and like yours, the 2nd issue of the 4-6-2 Pacific w/metal drivers and tender pickup. This is where I have to take exemption to your analysis of their running characteristics. I acquired mine in a MIB #4182 set a couple of years ago. As with all new acquisitions, I run, or attempt to run, them on a test loop before I tear them down for a thorough cleaning, lubing, and replacement of anything worn or missing before placing them in my collection. Against all expectation, the Pacific passed a battery of tests without missing a beat and ran as smooth as any of my Athearn/Globe Dual Drive mechanisms(considered by some to be the best Athearn drive ever)! As the adage goes; If it ain't broke, don't fix it! As with any production line model, yours just needs a little tweaking and adjustment to run fine! I also have numerous Tyco Red Box Era steam locomotive sets, and every one of them has needed and benefited enormously from a thorough cleaning and fine tuning! Sure, these vintage drives can never be in the same league as a new Genesis or Proto, but the can be made to run just fine for those who have reasonable expectations of what to expect from a mechanical device designed and manufactured some 50-60 years ago! As a side note: Run the Hi-F Drives in tandem, and you'll experience a totally different animal! Most all the negative operating characteristics disappear when doing so and you'll have a smooth running, hard pulling set comparable to the Pittman! 


                    Van B. Campbell

                    Florissant, CO




                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21739 From: corlissbs Date: 12/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: One-of-a kind Athearn Pacific pre-production prototype
                    I was 14 years old when a mentor friend of mine gave me the Athearn Pacific.  He had bought it and it in no way compared with his Penn Line steamers.  My memory of it was that it ran poorly, which is why it didn't get a lot of track time.  I repainted it and lettered it New Haven.  To a 14 year old, it looked close enough!  I had a Gilbert 0-6-0, which ran flawlessly.  The Athearn was a disappointment.  I am sure that tuning the loco would have greatly improved the performance, but what does a 14 year old in 1960 know about tuning a loco? 
                     
                    I had good running diesels (Mantua, Hobbytown, Athearn Hi-F, English FM, AHM) and poor running diesels (Lionel FA, Gilbert Alco road switcher, Revell) but ran them all except the Athearn Pacific.  I think that if one revamped the drive per the B&M newsletter, it would run every bit as good as a Broadway Limited steamer and look every bit as good, also.
                     
                    I feel blessed to have been able to look at (and copy) the photos of this drive.
                     
                    Brad Smith
                    Franklin,WI
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21740 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: Mystery car sides
                    The car sides arrived yesterday. I wound up putting the package in the car and opening it after work that night.

                    I'm both glad and sad that the scale rivets on the sides are such fine things. I wish that sort of quality was the norm in our newer model offerings.

                    I haven't looked at more than a few of them and the paint and lettering is good enough to be graded A+ quality.

                    This was a great way to get a slew of the circa early '40's cars in the Fallen Flag roads.

                    Late next week I should have a session of the car sides under a DSLR on a copy-stand and then see how well they turn out when printed on a photo-printer. The quality should be right up there and if so, then its a session in a good graphics suite to muck around with changing the reporting marks car numbers to have sister cars without the identical car numbers.

                    I was pleased to see that I got about ten pairs of the B&O merchandise express car sides. I could have a crack train of express cars just from those sides. My goal is to do that with photo-real versions of those sides and keep the batch of 98 car sides untouched, or rather unassembled into model cars.

                    Sometime next week, I'll set up a folder in this groups with images of the car sides. In fact, I'll do that in a couple of minutes with the auction shots.

                    For hunting purposes the folder will be named "Athearn metal car sides'

                    Best to ya...
                    Mike Bauers
                    Milwaukee, Wi, USA



                    On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

                    > I hadn't thought some may be rare.
                    >
                    > Where can I go to see which may be the rare ones, just the known to be common ones?
                    >
                    > My thinking was to make use of a sampling of about one pair from the duplicate numbers as direct models.

                    ...................
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21741 From: gssfhc_wvc Date: 12/20/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender

                    Ray

                     

                    I have the instructions, but they only show the inside & one edge, not enough detail to make a replacement part, that is why I asked if anyony had pictures of the part or the end of the tender. My instruction sheet is just the tender part of the t-1 instructions, but no help in trying to fabricate this part

                     

                    Thanks for the offer, but the instructions are not much help for fabricating this part

                     

                    Randy

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21742 From: erieberk Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    Randy,

                    Yes, you're right -- I just took a look at my instruction sheets and it
                    shows just the same thing as your's. There's a photo of the rear of this
                    tender on HO Seeker, which you could look at, although it's not very detailed,
                    but if you want to take a look just go up on the website and open "Bowser" in
                    the Literature section (first paragraph). Then scroll down to the T-1
                    Duplex and when you open that, click on the first number at the top of the list.
                    A page will open with a number of photos and that one will be in the lower
                    right. The Gallery doesn't help at all as it only shows side view photos of
                    the T-1.

                    As you probably saw in your intstructions, the part numer is 7003, as it's
                    even stamped into the metal on the inside. The rear steps are part of this
                    casting, but I'd expect you'll install add-ons. If you'd like me to snail
                    mail a few printed copies of it, send me your address off-line to either <
                    erieberk at wmconnect.com > or < eriepacific at aol.com >. I'll try to get
                    different angles -- front, back, top. bottom and side, if I can but since I
                    won't be able to close the printer's lid, I'm not sure what I'll get, but
                    since they'll be at 100% they'll be the exact size you'll need (it's narrower
                    than the front casting).

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21743 From: Chuck Higdon Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender

                    Ray,

                    Sounds like you plan to do a scan of the part.  Please try a white handkerchief over the piece to help “bring down the lid”.  It might help some.

                     

                    And Merry Christmas to all.  Take care.

                     

                    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at

                    https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361

                     


                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@...
                    Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 10:53 AM
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Penn Line T-1 Tender

                     

                     

                    Randy,

                    Yes, you're right -- I just took a look at my instruction sheets and it
                    shows just the same thing as your's. There's a photo of the rear of this
                    tender on HO Seeker, which you could look at, although it's not very detailed,
                    but if you want to take a look just go up on the website and open "Bowser" in
                    the Literature section (first paragraph). Then scroll down to the T-1
                    Duplex and when you open that, click on the first number at the top of the list.
                    A page will open with a number of photos and that one will be in the lower
                    right. The Gallery doesn't help at all as it only shows side view photos of
                    the T-1.

                    As you probably saw in your intstructions, the part numer is 7003, as it's
                    even stamped into the metal on the inside. The rear steps are part of this
                    casting, but I'd expect you'll install add-ons. If you'd like me to snail
                    mail a few printed copies of it, send me your address off-line to either <
                    erieberk at wmconnect.com > or < eriepacific at aol.com >. I'll try to get
                    different angles -- front, back, top. bottom and side, if I can but since I
                    won't be able to close the printer's lid, I'm not sure what I'll get, but
                    since they'll be at 100% they'll be the exact size you'll need (it's narrower
                    than the front casting).

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21744 From: erieberk Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    Chuck,

                    I was going to drape a piece of white paper over the part, but a white
                    handerchief as you suggested might work better since it will fall more closely
                    around the part's edges. Thanks, I'll try that.

                    Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year also.

                    Ray F.W.</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21745 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    Dear Randy,
                    Not to rain on your project but Bowser part #7003 is IN STOCK at
                    Bowser-Trains.com. Priced at $10.58 plus shipping. As an aside, this
                    part also counterbalances the cast tender front.

                    Jake Bechtel
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21746 From: erieberk Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    Hello Jake,

                    With this tender part in stock, it appears that printed copies of it to
                    make a form to cast one would be redundant. Haven't yet printed anything up as
                    the only reply I received was from Chuck, but all's not for nothing as he
                    gave a good suggestion for making printed copies of any 3-D object on these
                    machines. You sure saved Randy a lot of work; I didn't realize Bowser had
                    any steam loco parts left.

                    Ray Wetzel</HTML>
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21747 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    Randy, Ray and all,
                    Bowser has thousands of parts on hand. Trick is finding them.
                    Go to Bowser-Trains.com. Use the "HO" link on the home page.
                    Then go to the "Price Lists" and select Bowser. If the part is in
                    stock it is listed. The list is in numerical order. Not all parts
                    are available but a great number are.
                    Jake Bechtel
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21748 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    On 12/21/2013 2:52 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:
                    > Randy, Ray and all,
                    > Bowser has thousands of parts on hand. Trick is finding them.
                    > Go to Bowser-Trains.com. Use the "HO" link on the home page.
                    > Then go to the "Price Lists" and select Bowser. If the part is in
                    > stock it is listed. The list is in numerical order. Not all parts
                    > are available but a great number are.
                    > Jake Bechtel
                    >
                    >
                    But don't wait too long.

                    I was talking to Lee English at Trainfest (asking advice on parts for
                    my "Liberty Bell" interurban combine, he not only told me what to order
                    but knew the part numbers from memory) but then he got started on how he
                    will probably be forced out of business when Obamacare kicks in for
                    small businesses.

                    Don

                    --
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21749 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    There's a shock!

                    I wonder how many more of the small businesses that make our hobby items will be forced to close???

                    I don't think we want to make it a topic in this hobby list.

                    It's certainly something to speculate privately about.

                    It could be long time for the hobby to recover if a slew of the small makers close down at roughly the same time.

                    Mike Bauers
                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Dec 21, 2013, at 3:06 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                    > On 12/21/2013 2:52 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:
                    >> Randy, Ray and all,
                    >> Bowser has thousands of parts on hand. Trick is finding them.
                    >> Go to Bowser-Trains.com. Use the "HO" link on the home page.
                    >> Then go to the "Price Lists" and select Bowser. If the part is in
                    >> stock it is listed. The list is in numerical order. Not all parts
                    >> are available but a great number are.
                    >> Jake Bechtel
                    >>
                    >>
                    > But don't wait too long.
                    >
                    > I was talking to Lee English at Trainfest (asking advice on parts for
                    > my "Liberty Bell" interurban combine, he not only told me what to order
                    > but knew the part numbers from memory) but then he got started on how he
                    > will probably be forced out of business when Obamacare kicks in for
                    > small businesses.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21750 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/21/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender
                    True, politics don't have a place here, but they are a fact of life and
                    on occasion do affect us.

                    Don

                    On 12/21/2013 7:31 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:
                    > There's a shock!
                    >
                    > I wonder how many more of the small businesses that make our hobby items will be forced to close???
                    >
                    > I don't think we want to make it a topic in this hobby list.
                    >
                    > It's certainly something to speculate privately about.
                    >
                    > It could be long time for the hobby to recover if a slew of the small makers close down at roughly the same time.
                    >
                    > Mike Bauers
                    > Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    >
                    > On Dec 21, 2013, at 3:06 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> On 12/21/2013 2:52 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:
                    >>> Randy, Ray and all,
                    >>> Bowser has thousands of parts on hand. Trick is finding them.
                    >>> Go to Bowser-Trains.com. Use the "HO" link on the home page.
                    >>> Then go to the "Price Lists" and select Bowser. If the part is in
                    >>> stock it is listed. The list is in numerical order. Not all parts
                    >>> are available but a great number are.
                    >>> Jake Bechtel
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >> But don't wait too long.
                    >>
                    >> I was talking to Lee English at Trainfest (asking advice on parts for
                    >> my "Liberty Bell" interurban combine, he not only told me what to order
                    >> but knew the part numbers from memory) but then he got started on how he
                    >> will probably be forced out of business when Obamacare kicks in for
                    >> small businesses.
                    >>
                    >> Don
                    >>
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21751 From: Denis Long Date: 12/22/2013
                    Subject: Identification of a PRR T-1

                    Hi folks,

                    New here.

                    I have been trying to elicit comments identifying what I believe to be an obscure HO model.

                    Prior to purchase, I kept checking this out on eBay and suddenly it occurred to me that it was #6110-6111. I'm pretty sure it's brass. I have checked the internet and Glaab's update of Brown's Brass book. Nothing turned up yet on the internet, and Glaab doesn't list anything but production versions, and the Walscherts. No model shown for the proto.

                    I am submitting photos of, what I suspect is a special, rare model.  It is the prototype T-1 (#6110/6111). Of course, I’m going to eventually find out that it was made by Louis Marx in 2003 and sold for $3.98 .

                    It is brass, with nickel silver/brass drivers and nickel plates under the gearing.  The main part of the chassis looks to be a very fine sand casting.  Open frame motor, on its side, brass sheet for boiler and tender. Humongous cast boiler weight. Tender decorated with prototype scheme.  Painted in Tuscan.  There is no three dimensional features on the boiler shell.  It is sheet brass with bends, shaping of the sheet, and cutouts, in the tinplate fashion.  

                    I can find nothing on the internet, the PRRT&HS has not answered me, they did take my membership money, however.

                    Is anyone familiar with this model? Does anyone recognize any part of it?  Any ideas?  

                    Denis

                     

                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21752 From: gssfhc_wvc Date: 12/22/2013
                    Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender

                    Thanks to all who have offered advice and help, when I originally looked at the bowser parts, it wasn't listed. As it is now listed, I will order it along with a few other parts that I am after.

                     

                    Again, thanks for the help and offers

                     

                    Randy

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21753 From: tonytrain48uk Date: 12/23/2013
                    Subject: Can anyone identify these trains?

                    Hope you don't mind a question from across the water but I have just put three JPEGs from a catalog of an Italian 'maker' of HO trains FMV. They came from an Italian website concerning Rivarossi. The catalog dates from 1952 and the firm is pretty obscure, indeed there is no evidence that these items were ever actually made!  

                     

                    However getting to the point, something looks familiar about some of the items and I do wonder if in fact these were not in fact 'all Italian' production but rather used some US kit parts with local content (the loco is advertised as having a Rivarossi motor). While import duties on finished trains were often prohibitive at that time, much lower rates could prevail for imported parts where there was some local content so it is a possibility.   

                     

                    My question: I cannot positively identify any US source. But members of this group might just recognise some of these items and if so could they suggest a maker? Many thanks for any thoughts.

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                    Hertfordshire

                    England  

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21754 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                    Work cars, drop bottom gon and caboose could be Silver Streak...  They made cars like those illustrations.
                    Other freight cars could be Silver Streak, Model Diecasting or numerous others...
                    Passenger cars could be Mantua/Tyco.
                    Just my opinion because I built or still have some of these.
                    Many manufacturers bought from one another in that time period in HO.

                    Merry Christmas...  Happy railroading...

                    Don Staton in VA
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    On 12/23/2013 9:37 AM, tony_stanford@... wrote:
                     

                    Hope you don't mind a question from across the water but I have just put three JPEGs from a catalog of an Italian 'maker' of HO trains FMV. They came from an Italian website concerning Rivarossi. The catalog dates from 1952 and the firm is pretty obscure, indeed there is no evidence that these items were ever actually made!  

                     

                    However getting to the point, something looks familiar about some of the items and I do wonder if in fact these were not in fact 'all Italian' production but rather used some US kit parts with local content (the loco is advertised as having a Rivarossi motor). While import duties on finished trains were often prohibitive at that time, much lower rates could prevail for imported parts where there was some local content so it is a possibility.   

                     

                    My question: I cannot positively identify any US source. But members of this group might just recognise some of these items and if so could they suggest a maker? Many thanks for any thoughts.

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                    Hertfordshire

                    England  


                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21755 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                    On 12/23/2013 8:37 AM, tony_stanford@... wrote:

                    Hope you don't mind a question from across the water but I have just put three JPEGs from a catalog of an Italian 'maker' of HO trains FMV. They came from an Italian website concerning Rivarossi. The catalog dates from 1952 and the firm is pretty obscure, indeed there is no evidence that these items were ever actually made!  

                     

                    However getting to the point, something looks familiar about some of the items and I do wonder if in fact these were not in fact 'all Italian' production but rather used some US kit parts with local content (the loco is advertised as having a Rivarossi motor). While import duties on finished trains were often prohibitive at that time, much lower rates could prevail for imported parts where there was some local content so it is a possibility.   

                     

                    My question: I cannot positively identify any US source. But members of this group might just recognise some of these items and if so could they suggest a maker? Many thanks for any thoughts.

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                    Hertfordshire

                    England  


                    Tony;

                    It's very possible.  Can you post photos in an album in the group page or send them to the list in an email?

                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21756 From: Tony Stanford Date: 12/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?

                    Don and Donald

                     

                    Thanks for your replies. The photos are in the Album FMV Italian Trains?  On the site  - a link to it is http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vintageHO/photos/albums/1624692499

                     

                    Also if anyone wants to look, at the original Italian site the link is http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/index.htm

                     

                    Thanks again

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                     

                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                    Sent: 23 December 2013 21:28
                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Can anyone identify these trains?

                     

                    Tony;

                    It's very possible.  Can you post photos in an album in the group page or send them to the list in an email?

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21757 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/23/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                    On 12/23/2013 3:38 PM, Tony Stanford wrote:

                    Don and Donald

                     

                    Thanks for your replies. The photos are in the Album FMV Italian Trains?  On the site  - a link to it is http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vintageHO/photos/albums/1624692499

                     

                    Also if anyone wants to look, at the original Italian site the link is http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/index.htm

                     

                    Thanks again

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                     


                    Sorry, I should have caught that in your original post, getting senile in my old age.

                    It's hard to tell because the pictures are so heavily retouched (as was common with most manufacturers in those years), hopefully somebody else may recognize them.

                    It's strange seeing US outline stock with buffers.

                    Don

                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21758 From: Tony Stanford Date: 12/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?

                    Don

                     

                    Quite true. Plus of course they may have just been using someone else’s catalog illustrations as ‘intentions’. The buffers might indicate a degree of ignorance of US practice, or that they were seeing these items as primarily for their domestic market. To me the buffers do not look added in to the art work, which suggest actual prototypes were made at least, but as you say difficult to tell.

                     

                    While all this is a bit of a cul-de-sac in model train terms, let alone in the rest of the world, I do somehow find this sort of thing fascinating and wonder what were the hopes and dreams of the probably then young men who thought up this range over 60 years ago.

                     

                    Anyway thanks for commenting and of course wishing you very Merry Christmas

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                     

                    Don Dellmann wrote < 

                    It's hard to tell because the pictures are so heavily retouched (as was common with most manufacturers in those years


                    It's strange seeing US outline stock with buffers.

                    Don>

                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21759 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2013
                    Subject: Merry Christmas
                    Just want to take a moment to wish everyone a very Merry and Blessed Christmas, and a Happy New Year.




                    Don
                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21760 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                    Attachments :
                    On 12/24/2013 2:52 AM, Tony Stanford wrote:

                    Don

                     

                    Quite true. Plus of course they may have just been using someone else’s catalog illustrations as ‘intentions’. The buffers might indicate a degree of ignorance of US practice, or that they were seeing these items as primarily for their domestic market. To me the buffers do not look added in to the art work, which suggest actual prototypes were made at least, but as you say difficult to tell.

                     

                    While all this is a bit of a cul-de-sac in model train terms, let alone in the rest of the world, I do somehow find this sort of thing fascinating and wonder what were the hopes and dreams of the probably then young men who thought up this range over 60 years ago.

                     

                    Anyway thanks for commenting and of course wishing you very Merry Christmas

                     

                    Tony Stanford

                     


                    It's an interesting topic.

                    In the mid to late 50's a lot of Rivarossi was copies of US Manufacturers which then made it back to the US.

                    Most of it was sold here under the Aristo-Craft name (and later AHM), but some even had US names.

                    Looking at the catalog, a lot appear to be Athearn, but I have a PRR Gondola that obviously is an exact clone of a Varney car (other than having the Rossi name cast into the underside) but which was actually marketed under the Lionel name (even down to the Lionel "L" on the side) (picture attached)

                    Don


                    -- 
                    Don Dellmann
                    don.dellmann@...
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                    Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                      @@attachment@@
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 21761 From: Denis Long Date: 12/24/2013
                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                    Attachments :

                      Hello Tony,

                      The illustrations look very familiar to me, and I think you are on the right track, as far as ‘other’s catalogs’.

                      With that in mind---go to the web site—HOSEEKER.COM  

                      Based in San Antonio, that site has mushroomed with donations from modelers.  The major features are catalogs from most of the train manufacturers.   Click on the ‘Train Lit.’ bar, foolow the alphabetical arrangement, and look for the info on those you think might be one of the ‘others’.  Silver Streak, Globe, Athearn, etc.  There may be some the overseas manufs.  I know the Count’s stuff is there. 

                      Denis Long

                       

                      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Stanford
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 2:53 AM
                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Can anyone identify these trains?

                       

                       

                      Don

                       

                      Quite true. Plus of course they may have just been using someone else’s catalog illustrations as ‘intentions’. The buffers might indicate a degree of ignorance of US practice, or that they were seeing these items as primarily for their domestic market. To me the buffers do not look added in to the art work, which suggest actual prototypes were made at least, but as you say difficult to tell.

                       

                      While all this is a bit of a cul-de-sac in model train terms, let alone in the rest of the world, I do somehow find this sort of thing fascinating and wonder what were the hopes and dreams of the probably then young men who thought up this range over 60 years ago.

                       

                      Anyway thanks for commenting and of course wishing you very Merry Christmas

                       

                      Tony Stanford

                       

                      Don Dellmann wrote < 

                      It's hard to tell because the pictures are so heavily retouched (as was common with most manufacturers in those years


                      It's strange seeing US outline stock with buffers.

                      Don>


                      Group: vintageHO Message: 21762 From: Denis Long Date: 12/24/2013
                      Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1 [7 Attachments]
                      Attachments :

                        Hello,

                        A member of another site has furnished the following:  Lenehan’s Loco Lexicon 3rd , pages 12-13, has pictures of this model, made by Tetsudo.  

                        Don’t have this reference.

                        Denis

                         

                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denis Long
                        Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 6:39 PM
                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [vintageHO] Identification of a PRR T-1 [7 Attachments]

                         

                         

                        [Attachment(s) from Denis Long included below]

                        Hi folks,

                        New here.

                        I have been trying to elicit comments identifying what I believe to be an obscure HO model.

                        Prior to purchase, I kept checking this out on eBay and suddenly it occurred to me that it was #6110-6111. I'm pretty sure it's brass. I have checked the internet and Glaab's update of Brown's Brass book. Nothing turned up yet on the internet, and Glaab doesn't list anything but production versions, and the Walscherts. No model shown for the proto.

                        I am submitting photos of, what I suspect is a special, rare model.  It is the prototype T-1 (#6110/6111). Of course, I’m going to eventually find out that it was made by Louis Marx in 2003 and sold for $3.98 .

                        It is brass, with nickel silver/brass drivers and nickel plates under the gearing.  The main part of the chassis looks to be a very fine sand casting.  Open frame motor, on its side, brass sheet for boiler and tender. Humongous cast boiler weight. Tender decorated with prototype scheme.  Painted in Tuscan.  There is no three dimensional features on the boiler shell.  It is sheet brass with bends, shaping of the sheet, and cutouts, in the tinplate fashion.  

                        I can find nothing on the internet, the PRRT&HS has not answered me, they did take my membership money, however.

                        Is anyone familiar with this model? Does anyone recognize any part of it?  Any ideas?  

                        Denis

                         

                        Group: vintageHO Message: 21763 From: Donald R. Staton Date: 12/24/2013
                        Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1
                        Nothing in attached images...  blank.
                        Don Staton in VA
                        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        On 12/24/2013 4:54 PM, Denis Long wrote:
                         

                        Hello,

                        A member of another site has furnished the following:  Lenehan’s Loco Lexicon 3rd , pages 12-13, has pictures of this model, made by Tetsudo.  

                        Don’t have this reference.

                        Denis

                         

                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denis Long
                        Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 6:39 PM
                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [vintageHO] Identification of a PRR T-1 [7 Attachments]

                         

                         

                        [Attachment(s) from Denis Long included below]

                        Hi folks,

                        New here.

                        I have been trying to elicit comments identifying what I believe to be an obscure HO model.

                        Prior to purchase, I kept checking this out on eBay and suddenly it occurred to me that it was #6110-6111. I'm pretty sure it's brass. I have checked the internet and Glaab's update of Brown's Brass book. Nothing turned up yet on the internet, and Glaab doesn't list anything but production versions, and the Walscherts. No model shown for the proto.

                        I am submitting photos of, what I suspect is a special, rare model.  It is the prototype T-1 (#6110/6111). Of course, I’m going to eventually find out that it was made by Louis Marx in 2003 and sold for $3.98 .

                        It is brass, with nickel silver/brass drivers and nickel plates under the gearing.  The main part of the chassis looks to be a very fine sand casting.  Open frame motor, on its side, brass sheet for boiler and tender. Humongous cast boiler weight. Tender decorated with prototype scheme.  Painted in Tuscan.  There is no three dimensional features on the boiler shell.  It is sheet brass with bends, shaping of the sheet, and cutouts, in the tinplate fashion.  

                        I can find nothing on the internet, the PRRT&HS has not answered me, they did take my membership money, however.

                        Is anyone familiar with this model? Does anyone recognize any part of it?  Any ideas?  

                        Denis

                         


                        Group: vintageHO Message: 21764 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/24/2013
                        Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                        Hi Folks,
                        It might make me a little long in the tooth, but, Lionel announced
                        their cooperation with Rivarossi about 1950 to manufacture rtr HO
                        trains for Lionel. I think these are some of the first offerings.
                        If yu go back to the Rivarossi history site referenced in the
                        original post for this thread and check out the section on their
                        cooperative ventures - in the upper left you will find a faxcimile of
                        the 1957 Lionel catalog. I believe that you will also find these
                        models there, along with the FM and a 2-8-0, I think that they also
                        offered an 0-6-0.
                        I doubt that they were knockoffs or downright thefts. Rivarossi
                        was probably furnished raw models and told to make them into finished
                        products by Lionel. An interview by MRR in 1950 with the head of
                        Lionel HO marketing touted the release of the "new" Lionel HO line
                        made by Rivarossi for them.
                        Later Lionel HO included products made by Athearn and still later by
                        Crown Model Products, aka Kader Industries, aka Bachmann.

                        Jake Bechtel


                        On 12/24/13, Denis Long <avanti78@...> wrote:
                        > Hello Tony,
                        >
                        > The illustrations look very familiar to me, and I think you are on the right
                        > track, as far as ‘other’s catalogs’.
                        >
                        > With that in mind---go to the web site—HOSEEKER.COM
                        >
                        > Based in San Antonio, that site has mushroomed with donations from modelers.
                        > The major features are catalogs from most of the train manufacturers.
                        > Click on the ‘Train Lit.’ bar, foolow the alphabetical arrangement, and look
                        > for the info on those you think might be one of the ‘others’. Silver
                        > Streak, Globe, Athearn, etc. There may be some the overseas manufs. I know
                        > the Count’s stuff is there.
                        >
                        > Denis Long
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        > Of Tony Stanford
                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 2:53 AM
                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Can anyone identify these trains?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Don
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Quite true. Plus of course they may have just been using someone else’s
                        > catalog illustrations as ‘intentions’. The buffers might indicate a degree
                        > of ignorance of US practice, or that they were seeing these items as
                        > primarily for their domestic market. To me the buffers do not look added in
                        > to the art work, which suggest actual prototypes were made at least, but as
                        > you say difficult to tell.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > While all this is a bit of a cul-de-sac in model train terms, let alone in
                        > the rest of the world, I do somehow find this sort of thing fascinating and
                        > wonder what were the hopes and dreams of the probably then young men who
                        > thought up this range over 60 years ago.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Anyway thanks for commenting and of course wishing you very Merry Christmas
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Tony Stanford
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Don Dellmann wrote <
                        >
                        > It's hard to tell because the pictures are so heavily retouched (as was
                        > common with most manufacturers in those years
                        >
                        >
                        > It's strange seeing US outline stock with buffers.
                        >
                        > Don>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        Group: vintageHO Message: 21765 From: Jacob Bechtel Date: 12/24/2013
                        Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1
                        HI Guys,
                        As I recall it from the late 40's Tetsudo was a marketing name for
                        Tenshodo. If this is one of the models from them, it was made by
                        Tenshodo san himself ! At that time Tenshodo Jewelry Manufactures did
                        not have a model division. All models were made by Mr Tenshodo.
                        My references indicate that Baldwin built the prototypes and 25
                        more units and Altoona built the remaining 25 units. From 1945 to
                        1955 I was living abut 30 miles west of Altoona near the Pennsy 4
                        track main - an irrestistable draw for a lad whose Mom's family
                        worked in the Pennsy shops and I know that I saw more than 2 porthole
                        pilots !

                        Jake Bechtel

                        On 12/24/13, Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> wrote:
                        > /Nothing in attached images... blank.
                        > Don Staton in VA
                        > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > /
                        > On 12/24/2013 4:54 PM, Denis Long wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Hello,
                        >>
                        >> A member of another site has furnished the following: Lenehan's Loco
                        >> Lexicon 3^rd , pages 12-13, has pictures of this model, made by Tetsudo.
                        >>
                        >> Don't have this reference.
                        >>
                        >> Denis
                        >>
                        >> *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                        >> *On Behalf Of *Denis Long
                        >> *Sent:* Sunday, December 22, 2013 6:39 PM
                        >> *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                        >> *Subject:* [vintageHO] Identification of a PRR T-1 [7 Attachments]
                        >>
                        >> *[Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Denis Long included below]*
                        >>
                        >> Hi folks,
                        >>
                        >> New here.
                        >>
                        >> I have been trying to elicit comments identifying what I believe to be
                        >> an obscure HO model.
                        >>
                        >> Prior to purchase, I kept checking this out on eBay and suddenly it
                        >> occurred to me that it was #6110-6111. I'm pretty sure it's brass. I
                        >> have checked the internet and Glaab's update of Brown's Brass book.
                        >> Nothing turned up yet on the internet, and Glaab doesn't list anything
                        >> but production versions, and the Walscherts. No model shown for the
                        >> proto.
                        >>
                        >> I am submitting photos of, what I suspect is a special, rare model.
                        >> It is the prototype T-1 (#6110/6111). Of course, I'm going to
                        >> eventually find out that it was made by Louis Marx in 2003 and sold
                        >> for $3.98 .
                        >>
                        >> It is brass, with nickel silver/brass drivers and nickel plates under
                        >> the gearing. The main part of the chassis looks to be a very fine
                        >> sand casting. Open frame motor, on its side, brass sheet for boiler
                        >> and tender. Humongous cast boiler weight. Tender decorated with
                        >> prototype scheme. Painted in Tuscan. There is no three dimensional
                        >> features on the boiler shell. It is sheet brass with bends, shaping
                        >> of the sheet, and cutouts, in the tinplate fashion.
                        >>
                        >> I can find nothing on the internet, the PRRT&HS has not answered me,
                        >> they did take my membership money, however.
                        >>
                        >> Is anyone familiar with this model? Does anyone recognize any part of
                        >> it? Any ideas?
                        >>
                        >> Denis
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        Group: vintageHO Message: 21766 From: Denis Long Date: 12/24/2013
                        Subject: Re: Identification of a PRR T-1
                        Attachments :

                          Hello Don,

                          The version given me was third revision.

                          Denis

                           

                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald R. Staton
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:14 PM
                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Identification of a PRR T-1

                           

                           

                          Nothing in attached images...  blank.
                          Don Staton in VA
                          -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          On 12/24/2013 4:54 PM, Denis Long wrote:

                           

                          Hello,

                          A member of another site has furnished the following:  Lenehan’s Loco Lexicon 3rd , pages 12-13, has pictures of this model, made by Tetsudo.  

                          Don’t have this reference.

                          Denis

                           

                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denis Long
                          Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 6:39 PM
                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [vintageHO] Identification of a PRR T-1 [7 Attachments]

                           

                           

                          [Attachment(s) from Denis Long included below]

                          Hi folks,

                          New here.

                          I have been trying to elicit comments identifying what I believe to be an obscure HO model.

                          Prior to purchase, I kept checking this out on eBay and suddenly it occurred to me that it was #6110-6111. I'm pretty sure it's brass. I have checked the internet and Glaab's update of Brown's Brass book. Nothing turned up yet on the internet, and Glaab doesn't list anything but production versions, and the Walscherts. No model shown for the proto.

                          I am submitting photos of, what I suspect is a special, rare model.  It is the prototype T-1 (#6110/6111). Of course, I’m going to eventually find out that it was made by Louis Marx in 2003 and sold for $3.98 .

                          It is brass, with nickel silver/brass drivers and nickel plates under the gearing.  The main part of the chassis looks to be a very fine sand casting.  Open frame motor, on its side, brass sheet for boiler and tender. Humongous cast boiler weight. Tender decorated with prototype scheme.  Painted in Tuscan.  There is no three dimensional features on the boiler shell.  It is sheet brass with bends, shaping of the sheet, and cutouts, in the tinplate fashion.  

                          I can find nothing on the internet, the PRRT&HS has not answered me, they did take my membership money, however.

                          Is anyone familiar with this model? Does anyone recognize any part of it?  Any ideas?  

                          Denis

                           

                           

                          Group: vintageHO Message: 21767 From: Richard White Date: 12/25/2013
                          Subject: Re: Merry Christmas [1 Attachment]
                          Attachments :
                            And to you too, Don, a wonderful and blessed Christmas! Regards- Richard White PS- Loved the cat under the tree!
                             

                            To: Railroad_Modeling_Still_Makes_Me_Grumpy@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; SCENERY@yahoogroups.com; creamcitytraction@yahoogroups.com
                            From: don.dellmann@...
                            Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 08:07:35 -0600
                            Subject: [vintageHO] Merry Christmas [1 Attachment]

                            Just want to take a moment to wish everyone a very Merry and Blessed Christmas, and a Happy New Year.




                            Don
                            -- 
                            Don Dellmann
                            don.dellmann@...
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/
                            Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 21768 From: Sean Naylor Date: 12/27/2013
                            Subject: Re: FSM #155 Coal Dock [1 Attachment]
                            Awesome job building that coal dock Kent! Does not matter in the least that it took a year! The quality of the work proves it was well worth it! Well done!
                             
                            Sean


                            "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!


                            On Saturday, November 30, 2013 6:56 PM, "nvrr49@..." <nvrr49@...> wrote:
                             
                            [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below]
                            I guess this is a vintage kit, 1976?  About the time I got in to model railroading.
                             
                            Here are some pictures of a project I just completed...only took me a year.  One attached, and several more at the link.


                            http://tinyurl.com/nlb5axe


                            Kent Hurley
                            Kansas City, MO
                            Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/






                            Group: vintageHO Message: 21769 From: Tony Stanford Date: 12/27/2013
                            Subject: Re: Can anyone identify these trains?
                            Just a note to thank everyone who responded to my original query on this
                            topic. A couple of specific follow ups

                            Denis, yes I have been looking at HOSEEKER.NET and thanks for reminding me
                            of this great site which I have used before. As yet not found any obvious
                            matches but by no means exhausted the possibilities! I certainly have not
                            exhausted this list. Specifically on Silver Streak, unless I am looking in
                            the wrong place, there does not seem to be any early catalog illustrations
                            that might relate to the time period of the original items - listings in the
                            Model RR Co catalog but not much in the way of pictures.

                            Jake, thanks also for your comments. I believe though the start date for
                            Lionel HO was 1957 and therefore I do not think that Rivarossi originated
                            any new tooling specifically for the Lionel 'adventure' though they did
                            offer a variety of paint jobs, added a Lionel logo etc. All the locos and
                            cars offered had already been available as Rivarossi items before 1957 with
                            the exception of the 2-8-0, which was new in '57 but was a model of an
                            Italian class 740 'Americanised'. I am sure as you and other have
                            suggested that these models were 'inspired' by the products of US makers but
                            the inspiration started a little earlier. Indeed, while Rivarossi started
                            making US outline locos in the later '40s they did not offer any US style
                            cars till their 54 catalog. Pure speculation but it might just be that the
                            FMV announcement made Rivarossi think they should start making some cars as
                            well - with some ideas from their then US importer (Polks I believe)?

                            Anyway thanks again.

                            Tony Stanford
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 21770 From: redvdub1 Date: 12/28/2013
                            Subject: Re: Penn Line T-1 Tender

                            If you can't get one from Bowser I have one in my T-1 Bowser kit.  I am scheduling to start building it next year (after I finish my E-6 and repair my K-4 lighting).  Let me know. 

                            George T. Galyon 

                            Olde Newburgh Model RR Club


                            Group: vintageHO Message: 21771 From: redvdub1 Date: 12/28/2013
                            Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives

                            I don't think it would help at all.  Those vertical gear towers are really noisy with far too much slop horizontally.  No one, to my knowledge, has ever reported being able to quiet them down.  I tried my best on a Key diesel and it was still noisy.  


                            Group: vintageHO Message: 21772 From: Dave Audley Date: 12/29/2013
                            Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                            For those interested in a good runner ( as oposed to keeping original drives intact ),
                            I install Athearn motors and drive components along with Athearn trucks. This nets
                            a good running, quiet engine! There are lots of inexpensive Athearn engines that can
                            be had for a small price that yield the needed components! I have just finished an
                            old Tenshodo GP 20 - now it gets SP paint in the bloody nose scheme! Runs really
                            nice now!
                            Dave Audley

                            --------------------------------------------
                            On Sat, 12/28/13, Redvdub1@... <Redvdub1@...> wrote:

                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                            To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 2:09 PM
















                             









                            I don't think it would help at all.
                             Those vertical gear towers are really noisy with far
                            too much slop horizontally.  No one, to my knowledge,
                            has ever reported being able to quiet them down.  I
                            tried my best on a Key diesel and it was still noisy.
                             
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 21773 From: corlissbs Date: 12/29/2013
                            Subject: Re: Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                            I have done the same thing with brass diesels.  They then run as well as an Athearn and will never wear out!
                             
                            Brad Smith
                            Franklin, WI
                             
                            In a message dated 12/29/2013 2:07:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, audleydave@... writes:
                             

                            For those interested in a good runner ( as oposed to keeping original drives intact ),
                            I install Athearn motors and drive components along with Athearn trucks. This nets
                            a good running, quiet engine! There are lots of inexpensive Athearn engines that can
                            be had for a small price that yield the needed components! I have just finished an
                            old Tenshodo GP 20 - now it gets SP paint in the bloody nose scheme! Runs really
                            nice now!
                            Dave Audley

                            --------------------------------------------
                            On Sat, 12/28/13, Redvdub1@... <Redvdub1@...> wrote:

                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lapping Drive Gears in Locomotives
                            To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                            Received: Saturday, December 28, 2013, 2:09 PM
















                             









                            I don't think it would help at all.
                             Those vertical gear towers are really noisy with far
                            too much slop horizontally.  No one, to my knowledge,
                            has ever reported being able to quiet them down.  I
                            tried my best on a Key diesel and it was still noisy.