Messages in vintageHO group.

Page 1 of 1.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18005	From: Jay	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18006	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Baldwin Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18007	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Pacemaker Line F-9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18008	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific...Epilogue
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18009	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18010	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18011	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18012	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18013	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Kadee Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18014	From: RalphB	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18015	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18016	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18017	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18018	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18019	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18020	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18021	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18022	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18023	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18024	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18025	From: Charles	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18026	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18027	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18028	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18029	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18030	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Marn-0-Stat revisited
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18031	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18032	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Marn-0-Stat revisited
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18033	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging/Red Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18034	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18035	From: bcerestrains	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18036	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18037	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18038	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: I have this caboose....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18039	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18040	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: I have this caboose....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18041	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: I have this caboose....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18042	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Marn-0-Stat revisited
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18043	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18044	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18045	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18046	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: I have this caboose....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18047	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18048	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Penn Line flood light truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18049	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Kadee Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18050	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18051	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: RDC re-power (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18052	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line flood light truck? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18053	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line flood light truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18054	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: RDC re-power (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18055	From: Rick Steele	Date: 1/5/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging/Red Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18058	From: ford35lh	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: PFM Shay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18059	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: PFM Shay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18060	From: ford35lh	Date: 1/7/2012
Subject: Re: PFM Shay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18061	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Fwd: Walthers Pug Passenger & Varney wood & plastic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18062	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Walthers Pug Passenger & Varney wood & plastic [2 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18063	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: PFM Shay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18064	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Scale-Craft Reefer Doors
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18065	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18066	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18067	From: cp_draw	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Marn-0-Stat revisited
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18068	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Fwd: no regrets after doing this venture!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18069	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18070	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18071	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: MORONS no regrets after doing this venture!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18072	From: Jay	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18073	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Fwd: who made this coupler ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18074	From: John H	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18075	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18076	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18078	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18079	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18080	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18081	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18082	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18083	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18084	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18085	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18086	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18087	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18088	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18089	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18090	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18091	From: erieberk	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18092	From: erieberk	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18093	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18094	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18095	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18096	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18097	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18098	From: Lon Walker	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18099	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18100	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: To Jerry S re Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18101	From: erieberk	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18102	From: erieberk	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18103	From: erieberk	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18104	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18105	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Fwd: Varney wood & celluloid pass. cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18106	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Varney wood & celluloid Pass. Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18107	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18108	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18109	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18110	From: Lon Walker	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18111	From: erieberk	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18112	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18113	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18114	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18115	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0 switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18116	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18117	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18118	From: Alan	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: odd operating coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18119	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: odd operating coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18120	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: odd operating coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18121	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18122	From: Larry	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18123	From: jbark76	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: Scale-Craft Reefer Doors
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18124	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: ...motor haul.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18125	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18126	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18127	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18128	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18129	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Varney pre war printed Pullmans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18130	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18132	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18133	From: erieberk	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18134	From: Jay	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18135	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18136	From: Jay	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & celluloid pass. cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18137	From: Jay	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18138	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18139	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Varney (?) 2-8-8-4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18140	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18141	From: RalphB	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18142	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18143	From: Alan	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18144	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18145	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18146	From: RalphB	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18147	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18148	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18149	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18150	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18151	From: RalphB	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18152	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18153	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18154	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18155	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18156	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18157	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18158	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18159	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18160	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Sales (was vintageHO Fwd: penn line us navy midget)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18161	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18162	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18163	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18164	From: John H	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18165	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18166	From: oljoe	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18167	From: Alan	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18168	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18169	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18170	From: Howard C. Taylor	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18171	From: Mr Larry L. Doub	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18172	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18173	From: Mr Larry L. Doub	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18174	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18175	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18176	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18177	From: John H	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18178	From: glutrain	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18179	From: rcjge	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18180	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18181	From: Alan	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18182	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: penn line us navy midjet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18183	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18184	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: penn line us navy midjet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18185	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18186	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18187	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18188	From: Glenn	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18189	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18190	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18191	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18192	From: Garry Spear	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18193	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18194	From: John H	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18195	From: John H	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18196	From: John H	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18197	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18198	From: Howard C. Taylor	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18199	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18200	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18201	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18202	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18203	From: erieberk	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18204	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18205	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Need Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18206	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18207	From: rcjge	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18208	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18209	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18210	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18211	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18212	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18213	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18214	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18215	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18216	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18217	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18218	From: keith gutshall	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18220	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18221	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18222	From: jim kellow	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18223	From: keith gutshall	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18224	From: Wally Weart	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18225	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18226	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18227	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18228	From: indianscoutrider2	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Help with Japan Kawai HO trolley wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18229	From: David	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18230	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18231	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18232	From: John H	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18233	From: Glenn	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18234	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18235	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18236	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18237	From: texpearson@AOL.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18238	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18239	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18240	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18241	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18242	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Projects at a standstill
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18243	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18244	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18245	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18246	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18247	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18248	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18249	From: Glenn	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18250	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18251	From: David	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18252	From: K Shan	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Help with Kawai brass wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18253	From: Wally	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18254	From: Allan	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18255	From: Jay	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18256	From: K Shan	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18257	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18258	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18259	From: Richard White	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18260	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18261	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Ancient kit model plans
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18262	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18263	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18264	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18265	From: trolleynut	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18266	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18267	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18268	From: Jay	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18269	From: David	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18270	From: Glenn	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18271	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18272	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18273	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18274	From: David	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18275	From: Jay	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation/Glue Suggestions - Why not "Goo?"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18276	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18277	From: Alan	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18278	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18279	From: Jay	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18280	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18281	From: Glenn	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18282	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18283	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18284	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18286	From: Dick	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18287	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Help on windows
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18288	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18289	From: Charles	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Help on windows
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18290	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Drive Belts for Revell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18291	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Help on windows
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18292	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18293	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Drive Belts for Revell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18294	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Vintage HO trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18295	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID - early MDC question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18296	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18297	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18298	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18299	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18300	From: RalphB	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Hobbytown plastic RS-3 - it runs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18301	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18302	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Fw: [StillGrumpy] Lew English has died
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18303	From: Dick	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID - early MDC question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18304	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18305	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18306	From: Glenn	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18307	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: : Seeking information
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18308	From: Wally	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Gilbert side rod diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18309	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18310	From: Glenn	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18311	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18312	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18313	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18314	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18315	From: Wally	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18316	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18317	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18318	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18319	From: John Webster	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID - early MDC question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18320	From: rcjge	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Cary Berkshire Boiler sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18321	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Help with windows
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18322	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Ambroid Baggage Car Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18323	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Renumbering freight cares
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18324	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18325	From: Nelson	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Drive Belts for Revell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18326	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18327	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18328	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18329	From: David	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18330	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18331	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18332	From: rcjge	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18333	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18334	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18335	From: John H	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18336	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18337	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18338	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18339	From: David	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18340	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18341	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18342	From: RalphB	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18343	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18344	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Fwd: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18345	From: nico	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18346	From: rcjge	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18347	From: Jay	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18348	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18349	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18350	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18351	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18352	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Vanden Boom trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18353	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18354	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18355	From: Garry Spear	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Vanden Boom trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18356	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18357	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18358	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18359	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18360	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18361	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18362	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18363	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18364	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18365	From: Charles	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18366	From: John H	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18367	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18368	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18369	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18370	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18371	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Varney Celluloid Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18372	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger Cars [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18373	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18374	From: Glenn	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18375	From: John H	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18376	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Other Celluloid passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18377	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18378	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18379	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18380	From: Glenn	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18381	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18382	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18383	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Burd Model Railroads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18384	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18385	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18386	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18387	From: ablecynic	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18388	From: ablecynic	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18389	From: Jay	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18390	From: Jay	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18391	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18392	From: ford35lh	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18393	From: Jay	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: More Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18394	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18395	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel F-3a Cheapo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18396	From: erieberk	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18397	From: erieberk	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18398	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Varney Celluloid Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18399	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18400	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Fwd: AF/Gilbert not Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18401	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18402	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: AF/Gilbert not Lionel [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18403	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: More Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18404	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: New Acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18405	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18406	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions Prototype Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18407	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18408	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18409	From: Jay	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18410	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions Prototype Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18411	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18412	From: Jay	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18413	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Fwd: Almost Done
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18414	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18415	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18416	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18417	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18418	From: cwrailman	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18419	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18420	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: A finishedCelluloid Varney car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18421	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18422	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18423	From: Jay	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18424	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18425	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18426	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18427	From: Jay	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18428	From: Jay	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18429	From: cwrailman	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18430	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Varney R-1.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18431	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Thanks for the comments
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18432	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18433	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18434	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18435	From: Nelson	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: NYO&W 2-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18436	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: NYO&W 2-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18437	From: Nelson	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: NYO&W 2-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18438	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18439	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: NYO&W 2-4-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18440	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18441	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18442	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18443	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Clarification of Original Subject Title (Was: Varney R-1 electri
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18444	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18445	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18446	From: Jay	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18447	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18448	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18449	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18450	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18451	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18452	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/24/2012
Subject: Re: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18453	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18454	From: gary	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18455	From: jay matz	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18456	From: gary pardue	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18457	From: Jay	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18458	From: Jay	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18459	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18460	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18461	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Simms Power unit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18462	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18463	From: jbark76	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18464	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18465	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: Simms Power unit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18466	From: Mal	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18467	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: bowser mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18468	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: bowser mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18469	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18470	From: Larry	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18471	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: bowser mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18472	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: bowser muntain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18473	From: Charles	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: bowser muntain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18474	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Belpaire firebox
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18475	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18476	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18477	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18478	From: erieberk	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Available; La Belle Coach Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18479	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18480	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18481	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18482	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18483	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18484	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Varney Celluloid Passenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18485	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18486	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18487	From: erieberk	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18488	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18489	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18490	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18491	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18492	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18493	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18494	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18495	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18496	From: John H	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18497	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18498	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Before & After Pictures
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18499	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Before & After Pictures [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18500	From: Jay	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18501	From: Jay	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18502	From: Alan	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18503	From: John H	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18504	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18505	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18506	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Found a difference
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18507	From: prandn	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18508	From: Nelson	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18509	From: hooligan	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18510	From: Jay	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18511	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Fwd: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18512	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18513	From: Larry	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18514	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18515	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18516	From: John H	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18517	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18518	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18519	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: item to sell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18520	From: Mary Long	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18521	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Three more pieces
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18522	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18523	From: Larry	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18524	From: takefive247	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Mantua catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18525	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Later AF Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18526	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18527	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Mantua 1937 first Edition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18528	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18529	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18530	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Later SAF
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18531	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later SAF
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18532	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: comparing Gilbert/AF vs. Marx
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18533	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: comparing Gilbert/AF vs. Marx [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18534	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18535	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18536	From: Nelson	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Later SAF
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18537	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18538	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18539	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18540	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18541	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18542	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18543	From: pjentingh	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18544	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18545	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18546	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18547	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18548	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18549	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18550	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Red Ball wrapper
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18551	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18552	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18553	From: ablecynic	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18554	From: Lawrence	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18555	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18556	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18557	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18558	From: 23weldon	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18559	From: Nelson Butz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18560	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: won a bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18561	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18562	From: nvrr49	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Lindsay HO Stubby Repower
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18563	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18564	From: Glenn	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18565	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18566	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18567	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18568	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18569	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18570	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18571	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: won a bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18572	From: James Bartelt	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Cedarburg, WI Model Train Show Reminder Sunday March 11th, 2012
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18573	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18574	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18575	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18576	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Looking for info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Looking for info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18578	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Looking for info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18579	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18580	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18581	From: pjentingh	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Model car weight.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18582	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Model car weight.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18583	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Model car weight.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18584	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Model car weight.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18585	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18586	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18587	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Today's show.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18588	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Today's show.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18589	From: Jay	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18590	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18591	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Today's show.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18592	From: wdavis5069	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18593	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Walthers E-7 A&B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18594	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18595	From: gary	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18596	From: Jay	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18597	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18598	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18599	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Photo of boxed Walthers E-7 B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18600	From: Jay	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B link to instruction sheet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18601	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18602	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18603	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18604	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18605	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18606	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18607	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18608	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18609	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18610	From: wdavis5069	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18611	From: Nelson	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18612	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18613	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18614	From: Alan	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18615	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18616	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18617	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18618	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18619	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18620	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18621	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18622	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18623	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18624	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18625	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18626	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18627	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18628	From: ford35lh	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Champ decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18629	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Champ decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18630	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18631	From: takefive247	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18632	From: Nelson	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18633	From: Nelson	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18634	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18635	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18636	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18637	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18638	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18639	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18640	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18641	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18642	From: John H	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18643	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18644	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18645	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18646	From: Alan	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: early athearn tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18647	From: Bill W	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18648	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18649	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18650	From: Glenn	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18651	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18652	From: John H	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18653	From: william witte	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18654	From: Glenn	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18655	From: Wally Weart	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: A locomotive from my early days
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18656	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Pre war & post war Mantua engines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18657	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18658	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18659	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18660	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: early athearn tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18661	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18662	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18663	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: A locomotive from my early days
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18664	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18665	From: william witte	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Pre war & post war Mantua engines [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18666	From: John H	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18667	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18668	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Mantua Consy Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18669	From: Glenn	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Consy Boiler [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18670	From: Nelson	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18671	From: Nelson	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18672	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18673	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18674	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18675	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18676	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18677	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Need a part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18678	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18679	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18680	From: John H	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18681	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18682	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18683	From: Nelson	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18684	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660 Motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18685	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18686	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18687	From: tom leen	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18688	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18689	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18690	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18691	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18692	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Mantua post war tender with engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18693	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18694	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18695	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18696	From: John H	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18697	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: : Early Mantua Pacific questions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18698	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war tender with engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18699	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18700	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18701	From: John H	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18702	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18704	From: John H	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18705	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Mikado Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18706	From: John H	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18707	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18708	From: John H	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18709	From: Nelson	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18710	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18711	From: Jay	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18712	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Mantua Mikado runs/revisions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18713	From: John H	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Mikado runs/revisions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18714	From: dasha	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Die Cast GG-1's Bowser or Penn Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18715	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Walthers HH 660 Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18716	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: Die Cast GG-1's Bowser or Penn Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18717	From: Jay	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660 Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18718	From: Jay	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: Die Cast GG-1's Bowser or Penn Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18719	From: takefive247	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Mantua Products list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18720	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18721	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18722	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18723	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18724	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18725	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18726	From: william witte	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18727	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18728	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18729	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18730	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18731	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18732	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18733	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18734	From: takefive247	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18735	From: takefive247	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18736	From: william witte	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18737	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18738	From: takefive247	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18739	From: Nelson	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18740	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18741	From: takefive247	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18742	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18743	From: takefive247	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18744	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660 Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18745	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Progress [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18746	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18747	From: Jay	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18748	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18749	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18750	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18751	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: HH660 side frames
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18752	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18753	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18754	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: 2 old Mantua engines.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18755	From: Alan	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: globe f7a
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18756	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18757	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18758	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18759	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: U.S.A.T.C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18760	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18761	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: U.S.A.T.C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18762	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18763	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18764	From: Jay	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18765	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18766	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18767	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18768	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18769	From: Jay	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18770	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18771	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: Lincoln Fineral Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18772	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18773	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18774	From: takefive247	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18775	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18776	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18777	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18778	From: takefive247	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18779	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18780	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18781	From: Richard White	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18782	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18783	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18784	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18785	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18786	From: Mike	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18787	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18788	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18789	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18790	From: takefive247	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18791	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18792	From: takefive247	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18793	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18794	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18795	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18796	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18797	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18798	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18799	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18800	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18801	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18802	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18803	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18804	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18805	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18806	From: Jay	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18807	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18808	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18809	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18810	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18811	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18812	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18813	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18814	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18815	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18816	From: Larry	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18817	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Interesting piece on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18818	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18819	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18820	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Progress on HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18821	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on HH660 [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18822	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: copper HO engines and passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18823	From: Richard White	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18824	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18825	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: copper HO engines and passenger cars [8 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Super Scale Passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18827	From: Lon	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18828	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18830	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale Passenger car [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18831	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18832	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18833	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18834	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18835	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18836	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18837	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18838	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18839	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18840	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18841	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18842	From: al45390	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18843	From: Morgan Smith	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: John Allen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18844	From: al45390	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18845	From: Nelson	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on HH660
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18846	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18847	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18848	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Info sources
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18849	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18850	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18851	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18852	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18853	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18854	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18855	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18856	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18857	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18858	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18859	From: Glenn	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18860	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18861	From: William Anderson	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18862	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18863	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18864	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18865	From: Alan	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18866	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18867	From: erieberk	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18868	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18869	From: Larry	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18870	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18871	From: erieberk	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18872	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18873	From: hooligan	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18874	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18875	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18876	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: other Exacta address
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18877	From: Charles	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18878	From: erieberk	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18879	From: erieberk	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18880	From: takefive247	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18881	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18882	From: Lon	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18883	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18884	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18885	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18886	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18887	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18888	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18889	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18890	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18891	From: takefive247	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18892	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18893	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18894	From: Nelson	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18895	From: takefive247	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18896	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18897	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18898	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18899	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18900	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18901	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18902	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18903	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Pacific Pike Freight cars available
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18904	From: Glenn	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18905	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Walthers progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18906	From: Larry Smith	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18907	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18908	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18909	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18910	From: Lon	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18911	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18912	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18913	From: Nelson	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18914	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tempo tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18915	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tempo tank cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18916	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18917	From: Garry Spear	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18918	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18919	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Fwd: one handrail closer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18920	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: one handrail closer [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18921	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18922	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: one handrail closer [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18923	From: Graeme	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18924	From: Jay	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: HH600 Fwd: one handrail closer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18925	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18926	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18927	From: Glenn	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18928	From: Glenn	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18929	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18930	From: Jay	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18931	From: Lon	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: HO group recommendation wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18932	From: al45390	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18933	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18934	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18935	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18936	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18937	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18938	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18939	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Red Ball Raths Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18940	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Red Ball Raths Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18941	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18942	From: takefive247	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Dave Spanagel's (Reporting Marks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18943	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Red Ball Raths Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18944	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18945	From: Bill Wright	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18946	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18947	From: takefive247	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18948	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18949	From: al45390	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18950	From: takefive247	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18951	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18952	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18953	From: Bill W	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18954	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18955	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18956	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: HO group recommendation wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18957	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: HO group recommendation wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18958	From: takefive247	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18959	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: HH660 moving ahead
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18960	From: P Entingh	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18961	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18962	From: willard seehorn	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18963	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18964	From: P Entingh	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18965	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 moving ahead [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18966	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18967	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18968	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers GM&O Doodlebug parts (does anyone have complete kit or
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18969	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18970	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18971	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18972	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18973	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18974	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 moving ahead [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18975	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Penn Line Passenger cars available
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18976	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Penn Line Passenger cars available
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18977	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18978	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18979	From: Rick Jones	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers GM&O Doodlebug parts (does anyone have complete kit or
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18980	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18981	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18982	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18983	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18984	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18985	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 moving ahead [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18986	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18987	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18988	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18989	From: takefive247	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18990	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18991	From: Bill Wright	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18992	From: takefive247	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18993	From: David J. Starr	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18994	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18995	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18996	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18997	From: Bill W	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18998	From: Lon	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18999	From: takefive247	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19000	From: takefive247	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19001	From: Jay	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: -- Re: Photo formats to use and post
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19002	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19003	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19004	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19005	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19006	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19007	From: Jay	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19008	From: takefive247	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19009	From: Lon	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19010	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19011	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19012	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19013	From: takefive247	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19014	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19015	From: takefive247	Date: 4/14/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19016	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/14/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19018	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/14/2012
Subject: Exacta and Central Lines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19019	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19020	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19021	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19022	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19023	From: Chris B	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19024	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19025	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19026	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19027	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Last two shots
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19028	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19029	From: Charlie	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19030	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19031	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19032	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19033	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19034	From: Jay	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19035	From: Jay	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Last two shots
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19036	From: Jay	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19037	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19038	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19039	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19040	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19041	From: RalphB	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19042	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19043	From: al45390	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19044	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19045	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19046	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19047	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19048	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19049	From: tom leen	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19050	From: RalphB	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19051	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19052	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19053	From: James Bartelt	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19054	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19055	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19056	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19057	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19058	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Somewhat Off-Topic But Ths is for Jim(and Possibly Others)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19059	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: Somewhat Off-Topic But this is for Jim(and Possibly Others)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19060	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Back to the RR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19061	From: rayzef	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19062	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19063	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19064	From: Jay	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Anyone get these 4 (sand?) cast FT's?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19065	From: Larry	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19066	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Back to the RR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19067	From: wdavis5069	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone get these 4 (sand?) cast FT's?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19068	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19069	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Back to the RR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19070	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: B unit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19071	From: Jay	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Back to the RR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19072	From: Jay	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone get these 4 (sand?) cast FT's?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19073	From: rayzef	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19074	From: rayzef	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19075	From: Lon	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19076	From: Jay	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19078	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19079	From: rayzef	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19080	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19081	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19082	From: Lon	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19083	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19084	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19085	From: P Entingh	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19086	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser/Selly has new 1940's-50's "Walthers" tank car frames
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19087	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser/Selly has new 1940's-50's "Walthers" tank car frames [1 A
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19088	From: rcjge	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Oriental Powerhouse Pacific question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19089	From: RalphB	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Varney tenders on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19090	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Westwood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19091	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Westwood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19092	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Westwood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19093	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Walthers HH600 Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19094	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH600 Progress [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19095	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH600 Progress [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19096	From: Wally	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Red Ball "Oldie" box car No. 88 Free to a good home for postage
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19097	From: rcjge	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19098	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19099	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19100	From: John H	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Jim Findly's decapod on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19101	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19103	From: al45390	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19104	From: rcjge	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19105	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19106	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Westwood Passenger Car kit information
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19107	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19109	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19110	From: Jay	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19111	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19112	From: Lon	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19114	From: litant@yahoo.com	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19117	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Nasty worm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19118	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Nasty worm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19119	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Nasty worm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19120	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19121	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19122	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19123	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19124	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19125	From: Nelson	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Nasty worm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19126	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19127	From: Jay	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19128	From: rcjge	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19129	From: Michael	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19130	From: Nelson	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19131	From: Jay	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19132	From: Glenn	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19133	From: Willard Seehorn	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19134	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19135	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19136	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19137	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19138	From: Tom Hare	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19139	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19140	From: Tom Hare	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19141	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19142	From: Garry Spear	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Varney Yellowstone on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19143	From: Nelson	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19144	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19145	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19146	From: Wally	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: A scratch built Hall Scott railcar
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19147	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Varney And Gilbert HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19148	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19149	From: Lon	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19150	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19151	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19152	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19153	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19154	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19155	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19156	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19157	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19158	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19159	From: Wally	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: 2 Kwrtz Kraft boxcar kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19161	From: Charlie	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Vintage (& other) HO Model Railroad Supplies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19162	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Fwd: a little progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19163	From: jim kellow	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Need to contact the owner of Underground Railway Press
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19164	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19165	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19166	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19167	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19168	From: tom leen	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19169	From: tom leen	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19170	From: Gary	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19171	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19172	From: Charles	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19173	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19174	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After [3 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19175	From: Nelson	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19176	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Slightly off Topic Pacific Fast Mail II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19177	From: hspanier@aol.com	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19178	From: John H	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19179	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19180	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19181	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19182	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19183	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19184	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19185	From: tom leen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After [3 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19186	From: tom leen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Slightly off Topic Pacific Fast Mail II
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19187	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19188	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19189	From: Jake Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19190	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19191	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19192	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19193	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Finished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19194	From: jay matz	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19195	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19196	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19197	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19198	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19199	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0 [9 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19200	From: prandn	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19201	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19202	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19203	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: OT Using Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19204	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: OT Using Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19205	From: rcjge	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19206	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: OT Using Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19207	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19208	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]; Walthers HH600
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19209	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19210	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]; Walthers HH600
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19211	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19212	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19213	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19214	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19215	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19216	From: Charlie	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: OT Using Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19217	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0 [9 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19218	From: Alan	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19219	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19220	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19221	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19222	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19223	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19224	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19225	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19226	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19227	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19228	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19229	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19230	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19231	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19232	From: Larry Smith	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19233	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19234	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19235	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19236	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19237	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19238	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19239	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19240	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19241	From: rcjge	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19242	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Need new project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19243	From: Alan	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19244	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19245	From: Chris B	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Fw: possible new projects on ebay?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19246	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19247	From: Lon	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19248	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19249	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19250	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19251	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19252	From: Jay	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Strangest trucks found on a model, was: Mantua trucks sold on eB
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19253	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19254	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19255	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19256	From: Larry	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19257	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19258	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19259	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19260	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay-Now Mantua couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19261	From: Lon	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19262	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19263	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19264	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19265	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19266	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19267	From: Larry	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19268	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19269	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19270	From: hooligan	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19271	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19272	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19273	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Varney Yellowstone, was; mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19274	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19275	From: Larry Smith	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19276	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19277	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19278	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19279	From: rcjge	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19280	From: takefive247	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: older Mantua trucks wanted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19281	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19282	From: Nelson	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19283	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19284	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19286	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19287	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: possible new projects on ebay?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19288	From: Nelson	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19289	From: rcjge	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19290	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19291	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: new project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19292	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: I'm falling behind
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19293	From: Richard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19294	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19295	From: gary pardue	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19296	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19297	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19298	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19299	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: RF 16 Mantua Sharks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19300	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19301	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: additional Shark info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19302	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19303	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Correction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19304	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19306	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19307	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19308	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19309	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19310	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19311	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19312	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19313	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19314	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19315	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19316	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19317	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19318	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19319	From: rcjge	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Anyone collecting Varney embossed side Pullman cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19320	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19321	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19322	From: Nelson	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19323	From: Nelson	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19324	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19325	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19326	From: RalphB	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19327	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19328	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19329	From: rcjge	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19330	From: Mike Christian	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Tales of eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19331	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19332	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: Tales of eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19333	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19334	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19335	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: Tales of eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19336	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19337	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19338	From: Glenn	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19339	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19340	From: prandn	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19341	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19342	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19343	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19344	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19345	From: Walter Bayer	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19346	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19347	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19348	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19349	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19350	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19351	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19352	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19353	From: 23weldon	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Close bids on eBay and other thoughts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19354	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19355	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19356	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Close bids on eBay and other thoughts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19357	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19358	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19359	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19360	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19361	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Looking for info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19362	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19363	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19365	From: takefive247	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19366	From: Jay	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Close bids on eBay and other thoughts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19367	From: Jay	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19368	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19369	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19370	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19371	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19372	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19373	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19374	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19375	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19376	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19377	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19378	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19379	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19380	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19381	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19382	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19383	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19384	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19385	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19386	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19387	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19388	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19389	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19390	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19391	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19392	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19393	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19394	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19395	From: ho_in_hancock	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19396	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19397	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19398	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19399	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19400	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19401	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19402	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19403	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19404	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19405	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19406	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19407	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19408	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19409	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19410	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19411	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19412	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19413	From: don_dellmann	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19414	From: John Webster	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19415	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19416	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19417	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19418	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19419	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19420	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19421	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19422	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19423	From: rcjge	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19424	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19425	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Fwd: Conover 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19426	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19427	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Fwd: My latest buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19428	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19429	From: Nelson	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19430	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19431	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19432	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19434	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: My latest buy [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19435	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19436	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Mogul Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19437	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: My latest buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19438	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19439	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19440	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19441	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19442	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul Boiler [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19443	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19444	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19445	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19446	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19447	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19448	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19449	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19451	From: rcjge	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19452	From: rcjge	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19453	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Timing is everything
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19454	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19455	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: close bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19456	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Original 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19457	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Original 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19458	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19459	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Original 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19460	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle photos [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19461	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Belle of the 80's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19462	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19463	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle of the 80's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19464	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle of the 80's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19465	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Newest Buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19466	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Drilling holes in metal side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19467	From: John Webster	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19468	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting! [6 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19469	From: pe700	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newest Buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19470	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newest Buy [7 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19471	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19472	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19473	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Odd Drive Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19474	From: shawmut_fan	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Clerestory roof for Walthers 7843 Postal/Baggage/Passenger Combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19475	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Clerestory roof for Walthers 7843 Postal/Baggage/Passenger Combi
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19476	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19477	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19478	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19479	From: Tom Hare	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19480	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19481	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19482	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 5/23/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19483	From: John H	Date: 5/23/2012
Subject: Varney streamlined B&O Combine on "Buy it now"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19484	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19485	From: ford35lh	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19486	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19487	From: Mike	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19488	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19489	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19490	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19491	From: ho_in_hancock	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19492	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19493	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19494	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19495	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19496	From: Alan	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19497	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19498	From: trainm7	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19499	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: A Trip Down Memory Lane
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19500	From: Mike	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19501	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19502	From: 23weldon	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19503	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19504	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19505	From: Mike	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19506	From: Mike	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19507	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19508	From: jay matz	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2 [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19509	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19510	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19511	From: gary pardue	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19512	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19513	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2 [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19514	From: Charles	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19515	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19516	From: glutrain	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19517	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19518	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19519	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19520	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19521	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19522	From: Chris B	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19523	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19524	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19525	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Ordered Two
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19526	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19527	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Memorial Day & Jim H
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19528	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: Memorial Day & Jim H
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19529	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19530	From: Tom Hare	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19531	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19532	From: Tom Hare	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19533	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19534	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19535	From: erieberk	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19536	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19537	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19538	From: erieberk	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19539	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Computer Fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19540	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Computer Fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19541	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Arbour PRR A-3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19542	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Computer Fixed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19543	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Winton Allegheny
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19544	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: My mistake
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19545	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: File Boards came
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19546	From: Ed	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: File Boards came
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19547	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Scratch brass rebuilt project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19548	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: File Boards came
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19549	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Fwd: Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19550	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19551	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19552	From: jbark76	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19553	From: takefive247	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19554	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Small Mantua 6 volt motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19555	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Mantua Mogul [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19556	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19557	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19558	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19559	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/5/2012
Subject: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19560	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/5/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19561	From: Richard White	Date: 6/5/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19562	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19563	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19564	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: Fwd: Mantua 8 Ball
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19565	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19566	From: Askerberg	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: 8 Ball Moguls
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19567	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Moguls
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19568	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Alternative To Kadee #4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19569	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: Alternative To Kadee #4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19570	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Building Matthews Mercantile
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19571	From: Askerberg	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Moguls
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19572	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19573	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19574	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Dry Run Assembly
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19575	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Dry Run Assembly [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19576	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Dry Run Assembly [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19577	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Switched around
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19578	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19579	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19580	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19581	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19582	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19583	From: Askerberg	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19584	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19585	From: Jerome	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19586	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19587	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19588	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19589	From: erieberk	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19590	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19591	From: Jerome	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19592	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19593	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19594	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19595	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19596	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production, was; New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19597	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19598	From: John Webster	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19599	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Mantua Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19600	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production, was; New Acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19601	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19603	From: pcslrr	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: revell omaha 060
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19604	From: takefive247	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19605	From: Mike Christian	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: IMP Production
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19606	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19607	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: Alternative To Kadee #4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19608	From: Nelson	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: revell omaha 060
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19609	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: Alternative To Kadee #4
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19610	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19611	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19612	From: Mike Christian	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19613	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19614	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19615	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19616	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19617	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19618	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19619	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19620	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19621	From: John H	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19622	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits EBT Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19623	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19624	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19625	From: Lawrence	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19626	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19627	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19628	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19629	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19630	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19631	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19632	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Apparently
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19633	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19634	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: scratch built Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19635	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently...NOT!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19636	From: Joe Donato	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently...NOT!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19637	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19638	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19639	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19640	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: scratch built Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19641	From: Larry Smith	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits EBT Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19642	From: Lon	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19643	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19644	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19645	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19646	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19647	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19648	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19649	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19650	From: Lon Walker	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19651	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits B.S.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19652	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19653	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits B.S.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19654	From: Richard	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19655	From: Glenn	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19656	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19657	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: A little farther
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19658	From: Lon	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19659	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19660	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19661	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19662	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: A little farther
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19663	From: wdavis5069	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19664	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19665	From: Lon Walker	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19666	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19667	From: nvrr49	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19668	From: Nelson	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19669	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19670	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Some Tender Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19671	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Some Tender Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19672	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Some Tender Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19673	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Some Tender Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19674	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/22/2012
Subject: additional picture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19675	From: pjungkjung	Date: 6/23/2012
Subject: Walthers Miniature Cabinet Maker's Manual
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19676	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/24/2012
Subject: Scratch Pacific Rebuild
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19677	From: Mike	Date: 6/24/2012
Subject: Mantua Mogul
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19678	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19679	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19680	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19681	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19682	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19683	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19684	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19685	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19687	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Vintage kits for sale on my WEB site
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19688	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage kits listed for sale on my WEB site
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19689	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19690	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19691	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage kits listed for sale on my WEB site
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19692	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19693	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Tender Finished ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19694	From: RalphB	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19695	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19696	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19697	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19698	From: RalphB	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19699	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19700	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19701	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19702	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19703	From: hooligan	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19704	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19705	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Front Coal Doors
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19706	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Front Coal Doors [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19707	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: LaBelle Passenger Car Build/Bash
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19708	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19709	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: LaBelle Passenger Car Build/Bash
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19710	From: nico	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19711	From: nico	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: scratch built Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19712	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19713	From: Nelson	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19714	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19715	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Scratch Built Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19716	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19717	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19718	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: Front Coal Doors [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19719	From: RalphB	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Re: Visiting the prototype (was Scratch Built Pacific)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19720	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Scratch Built Pacific Frame/Drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19721	From: Mike	Date: 7/1/2012
Subject: Paul Moore streamliner plan
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19722	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/1/2012
Subject: Old Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19723	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19724	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19725	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19726	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: [NorthAmericaRailfans] all (20) NS Hertiage Units In N.C.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19727	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19728	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19729	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19730	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19731	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Rattle Can Paint Jobs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19732	From: nico	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19733	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19734	From: Nelson	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19735	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19736	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19737	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19738	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19739	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19740	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19741	From: David J. Starr	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19742	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Pacific Tender & Trucks Painted
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19743	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19744	From: David J. Starr	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19745	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: pacific problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19746	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Varney Pre-War Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19747	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Varney Pre war Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19748	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Pre war Pacific [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19749	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Pre war Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19750	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Pacific Cab Boiler
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19751	From: John H	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19752	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19753	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19754	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19755	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19756	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19757	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Pre vs Post War Varney brass/bronze streamlined Hudson / Pacific dif
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19758	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19760	From: Chris B	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19761	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19762	From: Chris B	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19763	From: jay matz	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19764	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19765	From: Chris B	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19766	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Project back on track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19767	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Mantua Pacific Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19768	From: David J. Starr	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19769	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19770	From: hooligan	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19771	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19772	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19773	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass mantu
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19774	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass m
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19775	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass M
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19776	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19777	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass m
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19778	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass Mantua lot from eBay with tank car [11
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19779	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Mantua Pacific Question & Replies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19780	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Won Bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19781	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass Mantua lot from eBay with tank car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19782	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Moving Ahead on Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19783	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Hobbies Inc. A&B
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19784	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. A&B [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19785	From: jbark76	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Won Bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19786	From: Jim	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: COLLECTION OF HO FROM THE EARLY 50'S ON UP.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19787	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: COLLECTION OF HO FROM THE EARLY 50'S ON UP.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19788	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Clamps and Clamping
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19789	From: Jim	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: COLLECTION FROM THE 50'S ON UP PHONE NUMBER CORRECTION
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19790	From: Chris B	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: IVERS 70T diecast kits & instructions + Keystone & MEW 44T kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19791	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Hobbies Inc Alco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19792	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Hobbies Inc Alco [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19793	From: pcslrr	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: alexander scale models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19794	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19795	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19796	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19797	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19798	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Hi-Ballers Corporation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19799	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc Alco [8 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19800	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19801	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Oregon's Rail Heritage is on the Move!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19802	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19803	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19804	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: won bid on vintage item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19805	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: won bid on vintage item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19806	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Rare Lindberg SW-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19807	From: Jake Bechtel	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19808	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19809	From: Garry Spear	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19810	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Original Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19811	From: Don Murphy	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19812	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19813	From: wdavis5069	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19814	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19816	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19817	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19818	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19819	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19820	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19821	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19822	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19823	From: wdavis5069	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19824	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19825	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Knapp Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Scratch Pacific body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19827	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Pacific body [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19828	From: Glenn	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19829	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19830	From: Nelson	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19831	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19832	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19833	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19834	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19835	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19836	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19837	From: wdavis5069	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19838	From: Nelson	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilt Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19839	From: Nelson	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19840	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19841	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19842	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19843	From: willard seehorn	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19844	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19845	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19846	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] seeing tiny stuff….. was cats, was: Re: Bowser-Kna
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19847	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19848	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19849	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: LaBelle Caboose bash into a Drover Style Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19850	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: LaBelle Caboose bash into a Drover Style Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19851	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Close to finished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19852	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19853	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: International models / Tenshodo mystery
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19854	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: International models / Tenshodo mystery
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19855	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: International models / Tenshodo mystery [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19856	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Hexed Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19857	From: gary pardue	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19858	From: Larry	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19859	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19860	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/25/2012
Subject: Fwd: Finished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19861	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19862	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Switch Picture
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19863	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Switch Picture [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19864	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/27/2012
Subject: Need Info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19865	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/27/2012
Subject: Re: Need Info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19866	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/28/2012
Subject: Thank You
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19867	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19868	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19869	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 gear info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19870	From: Brad Smith	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 gear info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19871	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Need Info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19872	From: RalphB	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19873	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 gear info
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19874	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19875	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19876	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19877	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19878	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Cambron + others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19879	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19880	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19881	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19882	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19883	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Mantua Sharks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19884	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Cambron ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19885	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: I found a great ~new RR Museum while visiting Medina New York
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19886	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron ? [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19887	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Cambron Ad
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19888	From: Glenn	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron Ad
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19889	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19890	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron Ad
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19891	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19892	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19893	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Cambron pictures & file
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19894	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19895	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19896	From: Mike	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19897	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19898	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19899	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19900	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19901	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19902	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19903	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19904	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19905	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits? [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19906	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19907	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19908	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19909	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19910	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19911	From: takefive247	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19912	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19913	From: Tom Hare	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19914	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19915	From: al45390	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19916	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19917	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19918	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19919	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19920	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19921	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19922	From: rxensen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19923	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19924	From: Glenn	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19925	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19926	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19927	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19928	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19929	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19930	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19931	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19932	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19933	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19934	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19935	From: rxensen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19937	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19938	From: Ben	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Mystery: Vintage Model Railroad Company-Engineering Model Associates
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19939	From: rxensen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19940	From: louis niederlander	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19941	From: Larry	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19942	From: nativetexan	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19943	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19944	From: Glenn	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19945	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19946	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Greg's Garage Re: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19947	From: takefive247	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19948	From: Nelson	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19949	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19950	From: Wally Weart	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Plaster cars and trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19951	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19952	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19953	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19954	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19955	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19956	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19957	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19958	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19959	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19960	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/6/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19961	From: al45390	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19962	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Re: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19963	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Re: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19964	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Re: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19965	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19966	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19967	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19968	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19969	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19970	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19971	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Printed car sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19972	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19973	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19974	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19975	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19976	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Aristo Craft/ New One Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19977	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19978	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19979	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: identified ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19980	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19981	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19982	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19983	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: Printed car sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19984	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Walthers BART cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19985	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers BART cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19986	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: signs on label stock (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Printed car sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19987	From: jay matz	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Printed car sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19988	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: signs on label stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19989	From: jay matz	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19990	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19991	From: RalphB	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19992	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19993	From: Douglas	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19994	From: jay matz	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19995	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19996	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19997	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Jim H is Off line!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19998	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann
Group: vintageHO	Message: 19999	From: shawmut_fan	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20000	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20001	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20002	From: nativetexan	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20003	From: jay matz	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20004	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20005	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20006	From: David J. Starr	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20007	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20008	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20009	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20010	From: nativetexan	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20011	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20012	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20013	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20014	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20015	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20016	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20017	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Jim H is Off line!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20018	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Jim H is Off line!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20019	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20020	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20021	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20022	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Jim H is Off line!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20023	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20024	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20025	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Bowser 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20026	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20027	From: Jim Ruef	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20028	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20029	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20030	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Bowser 4-8-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20031	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20032	From: Howard C. Taylor	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20033	From: Richard White	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20034	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20035	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20036	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20037	From: Chris B	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20038	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20039	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20040	From: jay matz	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Knapp Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20041	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20042	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Knapp Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20043	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: Knapp Mountain [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20044	From: Chris B	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20045	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20046	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20047	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20048	From: jay matz	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Bowser Mountain [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20049	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20050	From: jay matz	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20051	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20052	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20053	From: jbark76	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20054	From: (no author)	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20055	From: jay matz	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20056	From: wseehornjr	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: OFFER: PFM LTM box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20057	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20058	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20059	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20060	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Fwd: Cast Metal Bowser Mountain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20061	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: A Few Fun HO Scale Memories
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20062	From: Chris B	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20063	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: WTB: Athearn RTR Via Rail Canada P42's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20064	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Moving ahead
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20065	From: Chris B	Date: 8/24/2012
Subject: still ISO early vintage HO brass freight cars; was Re: [vintageHO] R
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20066	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/24/2012
Subject: Re: still ISO early vintage HO brass freight cars; was Re: [vintageH
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20067	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/24/2012
Subject: Re: Moving ahead [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20068	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Moving ahead
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20069	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Moving ahead
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20070	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: WTB: Atlas Classic RS-3 Lehigh & Hudson River
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20071	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20072	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20073	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20074	From: Richard	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Broken Varney Main Rod
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20075	From: gary pardue	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Broken Varney Main Rod
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20076	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20077	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Broken Varney Main Rod
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20078	From: Richard	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Broken Varney Main Rod
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20079	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20080	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Further along
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20081	From: nico	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20082	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20083	From: David J. Starr	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20084	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20085	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20086	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20087	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20088	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20089	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Further along [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20090	From: Richard	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20091	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20092	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20093	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20094	From: Watermans	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Further along
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20095	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Further along
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20096	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Fwd: Great Train Expo in Costa Mesa, CA September 8 & 9, 2012
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20097	From: Nelson	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20098	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20099	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20100	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20101	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20102	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20103	From: Nelson	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20104	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20105	From: nico	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20106	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20107	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20108	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20109	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20110	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20111	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20112	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20113	From: Askerberg	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20114	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20115	From: Joe Donato	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: F/S HO Older Craftsman Kits Silver Streak Ulrich & More
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20116	From: Nelson	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20117	From: Nelson	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20118	From: Askerberg	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: Re: New acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20119	From: Matt Martin	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: WTB: Athearn 40' Chessie Hopper 6 packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20120	From: Matt Martin	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: WTB: Lionel HO M-StL Snowplow/Husky Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20121	From: Peter Nyce	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: Re: WTB: Athearn 40' Chessie Hopper 6 packs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20122	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20123	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20124	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20125	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20126	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20127	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20128	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20129	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20130	From: Charles	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20132	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20133	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20134	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20135	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20136	From: tom leen	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20137	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20138	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20139	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Hiawatha Skytops
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20140	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20141	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20142	From: Mike	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20143	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20144	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20145	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/7/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20146	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/7/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20147	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/8/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20148	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: What are these?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20149	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: What are these? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20150	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: What are these? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20151	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: What are these ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20152	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Very early Model Railroader magazines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20153	From: Glenn	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: What are these? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20154	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Moving Forward
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20155	From: Douglas	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20156	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Penn Line Crusader
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20157	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20158	From: Glenn	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20159	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20160	From: douglas.mckercher@rocketmail.com	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20161	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20162	From: Douglas	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20163	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20164	From: Douglas	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20165	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20166	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20167	From: Douglas	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20168	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20169	From: tom bell	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20170	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20171	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: roadblock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20172	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20173	From: Douglas	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20174	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20175	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20176	From: Mike	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20178	From: Chris B	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20179	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout [2 Attachm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20180	From: Chris B	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20181	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20182	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout [2 Attachm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20183	From: Chris B	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20184	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20185	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20186	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20187	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20188	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20189	From: David J. Starr	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20190	From: Richard	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20191	From: Douglas	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20192	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20193	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20194	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20195	From: Douglas	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20196	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20197	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20198	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20199	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20200	From: hooligan	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20201	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20202	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20203	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Hobbytown Alco 2000HP road diesel for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20204	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20205	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: John English #5000 Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20206	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20207	From: hooligan	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: John English #5000 Pacifics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20208	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20209	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20210	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20211	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20212	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20213	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20214	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20215	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20216	From: Watermans	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20217	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20218	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20220	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20221	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20222	From: Mike	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20223	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: latest eBay engine came
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20224	From: nico	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20225	From: Watermans	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20226	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20227	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: vintage ho favorites.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20228	From: maryinvt2	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20229	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20230	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20231	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20232	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20233	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20234	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20235	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20236	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20237	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Odd Brass Diesel to me
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20238	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Odd Brass Diesel to me
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20239	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Odd Brass Diesel to me
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20240	From: Chris B	Date: 9/25/2012
Subject: Fw: Vintage HO favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20241	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Vintage HO favorites
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20242	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Diecast cracking
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20243	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20244	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20245	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20246	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20247	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: order parts & eBay win
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20248	From: John H	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20249	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20250	From: Glenn	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20251	From: Glenn	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20252	From: Ken Soroos	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20253	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20254	From: gary pardue	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20255	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20256	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20257	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20258	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20259	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20260	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20261	From: mwbauers	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20262	From: Mike	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20263	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20264	From: Nelson	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20265	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20266	From: Glenn	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20267	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20268	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20270	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Truck type question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20271	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20272	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20273	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20274	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20275	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20276	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: eBay win
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20277	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: eBay win
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20278	From: trainm7	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20279	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell SW-7's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20280	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20281	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell Engines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20282	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Engines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20283	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell Shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20284	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell SW-7's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20285	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20286	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell SW-7's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20287	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20288	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Castor O-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20289	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Castor O-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20290	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Fwd: Castor B-1
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20291	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Castor B-1 [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20292	From: Nelson	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20293	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20294	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20295	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20296	From: Nelson	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20297	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: I just purchased 2 Hi-F GP7 decorated for International Minerals and
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20298	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Revell Bodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20299	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20300	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20301	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20302	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Found Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20303	From: Mal	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20304	From: Joe Donato	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20306	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Pickle car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20307	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20308	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20309	From: larry Smith	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle car [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20310	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle car [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20311	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20312	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20313	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20314	From: Phil Bostian	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20315	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20316	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20317	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20318	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20319	From: RalphB	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20320	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20321	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20322	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20323	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20324	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20325	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20326	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20327	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20328	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20329	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Rare Athearn International Minerals and Chemical sets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20330	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20331	From: Rhbale@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20332	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20333	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20334	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20335	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20336	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20337	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20338	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20339	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20340	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20341	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20342	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Rare Athearn International Minerals and Chemical sets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20343	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20344	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20345	From: cwrailman	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20346	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20347	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20348	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20349	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20350	From: Charles	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20351	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20352	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20353	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20354	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20355	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20356	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20357	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20358	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20359	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: O/T Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20360	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: O/T Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20361	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20362	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20363	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20364	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20365	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20366	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20367	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20368	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20369	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20370	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20371	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20372	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20373	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20374	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20375	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Thanks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20376	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20377	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20378	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20379	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: FEC Layout; was, Pickle cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20380	From: jbark76	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: Conover-ish engine kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20381	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20382	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20383	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20384	From: cwrailman	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20385	From: Chris B	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20386	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20387	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20388	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20389	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20390	From: Glenn	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20391	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20392	From: nvrr49	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Exacta Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20393	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Exacta Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20394	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Exacta/Central Lines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20395	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Exacta / Central Lines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20396	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Exacta Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20397	From: Larry	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Site Link for Older Train Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20398	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Exacta/Central Lines [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20399	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20400	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20401	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20402	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20403	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20404	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20405	From: cwrailman	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20406	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: White Elephant sale bonanza.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20407	From: Douglas	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20408	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20409	From: Mike	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20410	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20411	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20412	From: Douglas	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20413	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20414	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20415	From: rxensen	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20416	From: Douglas	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20417	From: 23weldon	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20418	From: 23weldon	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Vintage layouts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20419	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20420	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20421	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20422	From: Douglas	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20423	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Fwd: For sale cheap
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20424	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20425	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20426	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20427	From: John H	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20428	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20429	From: Glenn	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20430	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Pulling Engines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20431	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20432	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Conover-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20434	From: Richard White	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: Conover-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20435	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: DES-3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20436	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Rebirth of a zombie FM switcher shell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20437	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20438	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20439	From: louis niederlander	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20440	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: Conover-10-2 [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20441	From: jbark76	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20442	From: Nelson	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20443	From: Nelson	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20444	From: John Webster	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20445	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20446	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20447	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20448	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20449	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20450	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20451	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20452	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20453	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20454	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20455	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20456	From: Nelson	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20457	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20458	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20459	From: Larry	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20460	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20461	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20462	From: hooligan	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Sandy ! [stay safe ]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20463	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20464	From: Glenn	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20465	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20466	From: Nelson	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20467	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20468	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20469	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20470	From: John Barlow	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20471	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20472	From: hooligan	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20473	From: gary pardue	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20474	From: ttcollector60	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20475	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20476	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20477	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/30/2012
Subject: Storm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20478	From: lvtrainmeet	Date: 10/30/2012
Subject: Slot Car Show this weekend
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20479	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 10/30/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Storm
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20480	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20481	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20482	From: Tom Hare	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20483	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20484	From: Tom Hare	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20485	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20486	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20487	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20488	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20489	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20490	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20491	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20492	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20493	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20494	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20495	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20496	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20497	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20498	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20499	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20500	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20501	From: Tom Hare	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20502	From: oljoe@bex.net	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20503	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20504	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20505	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20506	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20507	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20508	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20509	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20510	From: Charles	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20511	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20512	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20513	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20514	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20515	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20516	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20517	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Chuck Higdon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20518	From: wlon17	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Removing A.F. tender shell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20519	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Re: Chuck Higdon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20520	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Re: Chuck Higdon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20521	From: topstokes	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: varney 4-6-2 streamline
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20522	From: Nelson	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20523	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20524	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: Removing A.F. tender shell
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20525	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Chuck Higdon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20526	From: Charles	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20527	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20528	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20529	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20530	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20531	From: John Barlow	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20532	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20533	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: ADD or something like it
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20534	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: ADD or something like it
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20535	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20536	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20537	From: wlon17	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Traction tires for Mehano diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20538	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: new vintage addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20539	From: Tom Hare	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Re: new vintage addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20540	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Traction tires for Mehano diesel.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20541	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20542	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20543	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20544	From: JimW	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20545	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20546	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20547	From: Richard	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20548	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20549	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20550	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/12/2012
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb Diesel and other items available
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20551	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Diesel and other items available
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20552	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Diesel and other items available
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20553	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20554	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20555	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20556	From: Rick Jones	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20557	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20558	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20559	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20560	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20561	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20562	From: Nelson	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20563	From: willard seehorn	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: PFM box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20564	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20565	From: Rick Jones	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20566	From: william witte	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20567	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20568	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20569	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20570	From: Richard	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20571	From: Nelson	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20572	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20573	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20574	From: Don Grant	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20575	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20576	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20577	From: Larry	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20578	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20579	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20580	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20581	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20582	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20583	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20584	From: trolleynut	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: StromBecker Instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20585	From: Riverboy	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20586	From: John Webster	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20587	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20588	From: Riverboy	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20589	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20590	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20591	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20592	From: Matt Martin	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: WTB: Atlas Classic GP7 Rock Island Blue
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20593	From: RalphB	Date: 11/19/2012
Subject: Re: A true road "switcher" (was WTB: Atlas Classic GP7....)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20594	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Diecast tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20595	From: Mary Long	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20596	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20597	From: Glenn	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20598	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20599	From: Alan	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: removing soft metal
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20600	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: removing soft metal
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20601	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/23/2012
Subject: Re: removing soft metal
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20602	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: varney parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20603	From: Alan	Date: 11/26/2012
Subject: MANTUA MIKE
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20604	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/26/2012
Subject: Re: MANTUA MIKE
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20605	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/26/2012
Subject: Re: MANTUA MIKE
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20606	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 11/27/2012
Subject: Re: MANTUA MIKE
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20607	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20608	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: A RIP Track Rescue
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20609	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: LED headlight
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20610	From: Glenn	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: LED headlight
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20611	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20612	From: Watermans	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20613	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20614	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20615	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20616	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20617	From: tom leen	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20618	From: Nelson	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: LED headlight
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20619	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20620	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20621	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Closing Collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20622	From: Matt Martin	Date: 12/3/2012
Subject: WTB: Walthers and Intermountain Southdown Inc hoppers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20623	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20624	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20625	From: rcjge	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Penn Line GG freight set for sale and other...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20626	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20627	From: john rj	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20628	From: Charles	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20629	From: Charles	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20630	From: Charles	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20631	From: larry Smith	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20632	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20633	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: [Scratch-building] DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20634	From: George	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: [Scratch-building] DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20635	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20636	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20637	From: John Hutnick	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20638	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20639	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20640	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20641	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20642	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20643	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20644	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20645	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20646	From: johnhutnick@gmail.com	Date: 12/13/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20647	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20648	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20649	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20650	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20651	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20652	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20653	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20654	From: Watermans	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20655	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20656	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20657	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20658	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20659	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20660	From: johnhutnick@gmail.com	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20661	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20662	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20663	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20664	From: William Anderson	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20665	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20666	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20667	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20668	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20669	From: mrncartoon	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20670	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20671	From: Mike Christian	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Bail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20672	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20673	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20674	From: Walter Bayer	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Bail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20675	From: Larry	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20676	From: Larry	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Bail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20677	From: David Burris	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20678	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20679	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20680	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20681	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20682	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20683	From: Glenn	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20684	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20685	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Selley HO Kit Update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20686	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20687	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20688	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20689	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20690	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models? [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20691	From: John Webster	Date: 12/19/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20692	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/20/2012
Subject: No trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20693	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/21/2012
Subject: Re: No trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20694	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/21/2012
Subject: Re: No trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20695	From: rxensen	Date: 12/23/2012
Subject: Misc items
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20696	From: Jeff	Date: 12/23/2012
Subject: Re: No trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20697	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Re: Misc items
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20698	From: rxensen	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Re: Misc items
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20699	From: trolleynut	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Remembering [way off topic]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20700	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20701	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20702	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Merry Christmas(On Topic - Christmas Is Vintage)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20703	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20704	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20705	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Another Xmas story
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20706	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Another Xmas story
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20707	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Gilbert Hudson Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20708	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20709	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20710	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20711	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20712	From: gary pardue	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20713	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Vintage shells and parts for sale on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20714	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20715	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Fw: [vintageHO] Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20716	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20717	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20718	From: wdavis5069	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20719	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20720	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20721	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20722	From: jsangiovanni@snet.net	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Painted shell M&StL bay window caboose,
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20723	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20724	From: gbwdude	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Intro
Group: vintageHO	Message: 20725	From: gary pardue	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

---

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18005	From: Jay	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help

Hi Jim H., Looks like a detailed Athearn unit to me, but then I noticed what looks like a paint chip baring metal on the edge of the cab roof in one photo. On the other hand, another photo shows "daylight" through the engineer's cab front window, and the Garret units had a solid front cab wall, unless painstakingly opened up by the modeler as one of my vintage units exhibits. Guess we will all have to wait a few days to find out for sure. In any case, a distinctive model loco. Happy New Year. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Most assuredly an Athearn with added details. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > Looks to me like an Athearn S-12 that somebody kitbashed. 1946-1949 are the > > prototype production years for the DS-4-4-660. > > The Chassis is definitely the later Athearn with the inside bearing trucks > > with plastic sideframes. > > > > The stacks vary on Baldwin diesels, as do the carbodies, so this was > > probably kitbashed to represent a specific locomotive. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18006	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Baldwin Diesel

Thanks for the replies. When I first saw the engine I knew it was something a little odd. I collect HO but don't know much about real prototypes. When I read the description I wasn't sure how to take it. First look at the pictures made me believe it was a plastic Athearn body modified to resemble a certain engine. I had never heard or seen that this engine was produced by Athearn. It remains to be seen just what it is and what the body made out of. Since the engine looks good over all I thought I'd take the chance to see what it is. It won't fit into my vintage collection so it might get pawned of fafter I check it out. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18007	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Pacemaker Line F-9

Here is an HO brand I've never before.  Didn't see it on HOseeker either.   Ebay item 140673294635 which is a "Pacemaker Line" brand F9 diesel.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacemaker-Line-Diesel-Locomotive-E-M-D-Model-F-9-K-O-Models-w-box-/140673294635?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20c0c8212b   Description says:   "This is a vintage Pacemaker Line Diesel Locomotive E.M.D. Model F-9 Distributed by K&O Models in Van Nuys, Calif. Has these small parts in a little bag-the plastic ones haven't even been snapped off yet. Untested. Box wear. Thanks!"   Maybe it's really something like Athearn and custom painted and then distributed or something.   Anybody know?   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18008	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific...Epilogue

Sounds to me like you nailed it.  The Helix Humper or a similar setup from Yardbird trains is the best way to go.  It looks like you did a nice job on the wipers. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tieplatejunction@... Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 02:48:46 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Pacific...Epilogue   It has to be the motor now as I installed wheel wipers wired directly to the motor and it still wants to crawl...there is no improvement at all. I made and mounted wipers like so... http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_8938.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_8939.jpg Knowing modelers will see a mistake I have since corrected but, you can see that, unless I use track sliders, there is no way to improve on the pickup...my meter flatlines now where it used to hesitate. I guess now is a good time for a Helix Humper or an email to NWSL... Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18009	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

Unless you have some Kadee #4's stashed away, you probably won't be using them.  Kadee discontinued them and they are no longer available.  You will likely need to modify the boxes or replace them entirely to handle Kadee #148's, the newest an best way to go.  If you do have some #4's stashed, I suggest hanging on to them for use in any older Ambroid cars you may get.  The Ambroid cars seem to be able to use the #4's better than any other coupler. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: hbutlerlists@... Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 22:19:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits?   I've got a couple Hobbyline kits - a boxcar and a tank car - that I'd like to put in operation. Both have three small pins in the coupler boxes on the plastic underframes. Is a Kadee #4 a drop-in replacement for the NMRA couplers that came with the kits, or will I need to modify the coupler boxes (or replace them entirely) and use a different coupler? I didn't see Hobbyline in the coupler conversion list on the Kadee site. Thanks, Harry Butler

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18010	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

On 1/1/2012 11:07 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote: > Unless you have some Kadee #4's stashed away, you probably won't be > using them. Kadee discontinued them and they are no longer available. Uh oh, I was not aware of that. Better check my local stores and see if there are any still on the shelves. I still have a bunch of old unbuilt kits that use those. -- Rick Jones Ever wonder why the sun lightens our hair but darkens our skin?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18011	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9

Chuck,     Go into HOseeker, click on Gallery, go down list to where P is part of a group. At the end you will see Pacemaker Lines, click on it and one picture showing the engine, motor, assembly sheet and box. Click on picture to make it a little bigger and scroll down under picture there is a write up about the engine ( It is a Globe body by Atheran . I have one mint unassembled kit.                                                                    Jim H On 1/1/2012 11:26 AM, ckinzer@... wrote:   Here is an HO brand I've never before.  Didn't see it on HOseeker either.   Ebay item 140673294635 which is a "Pacemaker Line" brand F9 diesel.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacemaker-Line-Diesel-Locomotive-E-M-D-Model-F-9-K-O-Models-w-box-/140673294635?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20c0c8212b   Description says:   "This is a vintage Pacemaker Line Diesel Locomotive E.M.D. Model F-9 Distributed by K&O Models in Van Nuys, Calif. Has these small parts in a little bag-the plastic ones haven't even been snapped off yet. Untested. Box wear. Thanks!"   Maybe it's really something like Athearn and custom painted and then distributed or something.   Anybody know?   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18012	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

I just checked Kadee's website. The #4 is indeed discontinued. This is bad news for me. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/1/12, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: From: Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 1, 2012, 11:28 AM On 1/1/2012 11:07 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote: > Unless you have some Kadee #4's stashed away, you probably won't be > using them. Kadee discontinued them and they are no longer available.     Uh oh, I was not aware of that. Better check my local stores and see if there are any still on the shelves. I still have a bunch of old unbuilt kits that use those. --                    Rick Jones Ever wonder why the sun lightens our hair but darkens our skin? ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18013	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Kadee Uncouplers

All, While not really a "Vintage HO" question, I figure there's enough experience between all the members here that someone will know an answer to this: I use two different couplers on my layout: Roughly half my stock uses Mantua loop couplers, half uses Kadees. I have fabricated my own Mantua uncoupler ramps for those couplers. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, and can screw the uncoupler ramps I make, into the plastic roadbed. This leaves the Kadees: I saw on Kadee's website just now, a #308 under track magnet. Anyone here know if I can cement this under Bachmann EZ-Track? I am thinking I can cement it under where the Mantua ramps are mounted, so no matter what couplers the cars are using, they can be uncoupled the same place. Important around cattle yards where spotting cars with doors at the chutes, is important. Mantua couplers are brass, thankfully, and won't be affected by the magnet (Ramp would push 'em up, magnet would pull them down if they were a ferrous metal!) Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18014	From: RalphB	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help

Jim, It's a Baldwin DS 4-4-660. The prototype is one of three (#s 661-663) built for the Chesapeake & Western in December 1946. Since all Baldwin DS-series (and follow-on S-series) switchers used the same frame and body style, making an S-12 into this unit was a no-brainer. What's unusual about this unit is its 6-stack exhaust; that was probably a railroad modification. With a 6-cylinder engine, Baldwin used either two 3-cylinder exhaust manifolds with one stack per manifold, or three 2-cylinder manifolds which would have a total of three stacks. If you Google DS 4-4-660, you'll get a link to Wikipedia that has a photo of C&W #663, although it's in rather poor shape and doesn't show the stack arrangement. I've taken the Athearn model down to the frame level and built a road switcher body on it using a combination of EMD- and GE-designed body parts. Another of my Athearn switchers has the original brass wheels on it. As old as it is, it's one of the sweetest-running units I own. Ralph Balfoort P.S. The prototypes were outshopped just days after I was born. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Tonight while checking through eBay I bought a diesel engine that > caught my eye. HO RARE Baldwin Diesel D8-4-4-660. > > In the sellers description he mentions RARE Athearn engine produced > 1946-1949. While I bought the engine I'm not sure of sellers meaning. > > I know Athearn made a Baldwin S-12 but I have found nothing in any > Athearn material about the engine I won. Was it ever produced or did the > original owner create it from the Athearn S-12 ? > > He states produced in 1946-1949. Does he mean the Athearn HO engine > I bought was produced then or does he mean the real engine was produced > those years? > > I'm not quite sure what I have but it is odd . Anyone have an idea > exactly what I got.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18015	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

Thanks for the reply, Don. I'll go that route. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:19 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits? > > > > I've got a couple Hobbyline kits - a boxcar and a tank car - that I'd > > like to put in operation. Both have three small pins in the coupler > > boxes on the plastic underframes. Is a Kadee #4 a drop-in replacement > > for the NMRA couplers that came with the kits, or will I need to modify > > the coupler boxes (or replace them entirely) and use a different > > coupler? I didn't see Hobbyline in the coupler conversion list on the > > Kadee site. > > > > Thanks, > > Harry Butler > > I cut out the pins, then use a Kadee five with the base of the pocket (the > flat part with boss) as a cover upside down. Drill down the center and hold > it on with a small tapping screw. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18016	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

Thanks for the tip, Vic. I do have some #4 couplers on hand, but I'll start looking out for the #148 couplers as well. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Unless you have some Kadee #4's stashed away, you probably won't be using them. Kadee discontinued them and they are no longer available. You will likely need to modify the boxes or replace them entirely to handle Kadee #148's, the newest an best way to go. If you do have some #4's stashed, I suggest hanging on to them for use in any older Ambroid cars you may get. The Ambroid cars seem to be able to use the #4's better than any other coupler. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: hbutlerlists@... > Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 22:19:20 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've got a couple Hobbyline kits - a boxcar and a tank car - that I'd > > like to put in operation. Both have three small pins in the coupler > > boxes on the plastic underframes. Is a Kadee #4 a drop-in replacement > > for the NMRA couplers that came with the kits, or will I need to modify > > the coupler boxes (or replace them entirely) and use a different > > coupler? I didn't see Hobbyline in the coupler conversion list on the > > Kadee site. > > > > Thanks, > > Harry Butler >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18017	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

FWIW I've also done that on a lot of Varneys. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 12:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits? > Thanks for the reply, Don. I'll go that route. > > Harry > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:19 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits? >> >> >> > I've got a couple Hobbyline kits - a boxcar and a tank car - that I'd >> > like to put in operation. Both have three small pins in the coupler >> > boxes on the plastic underframes. Is a Kadee #4 a drop-in replacement >> > for the NMRA couplers that came with the kits, or will I need to modify >> > the coupler boxes (or replace them entirely) and use a different >> > coupler? I didn't see Hobbyline in the coupler conversion list on the >> > Kadee site. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Harry Butler >> >> I cut out the pins, then use a Kadee five with the base of the pocket >> (the >> flat part with boss) as a cover upside down. Drill down the center and >> hold >> it on with a small tapping screw. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18018	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

Actually, bad news for a LOT of us.  I know one guy who used the #4s exclusively.  He likes their action and the way the coupler pocket looks.  I also like to use #4's, but definitely try to keep them away from brass or die cast frames. I really don't know why Kadee dropped them.  I did not find them difficult to assemble at all. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 09:48:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits?   I just checked Kadee's website. The #4 is indeed discontinued. This is bad news for me. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/1/12, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: From: Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 1, 2012, 11:28 AM On 1/1/2012 11:07 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote: > Unless you have some Kadee #4's stashed away, you probably won't be > using them. Kadee discontinued them and they are no longer available.     Uh oh, I was not aware of that. Better check my local stores and see if there are any still on the shelves. I still have a bunch of old unbuilt kits that use those. --                    Rick Jones Ever wonder why the sun lightens our hair but darkens our skin? ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18019	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Central Valley Packaging

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging shown in the above auction. When was this used? -- Rick Jones "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy." -H. L. Mencken

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18020	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Re: Hackers

A hacker doesn't need your password or your id to send out spam emails. They have "spoofers" that will take any email address and let them use it as their own. I have a yahoo email that I keep receiving emails from myself that I know I didn't send. I may be getting old, but I'd sure remember some of these porno sites my emails are saying I have. I've changed my password so many times on that id that even I forget what the password is. I've complained to Yahoo and they say there isn't anything they can do about it.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: trainsnwrcs To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:19 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hackers   I have several e-mail addresses, so I know where the stuff is originating. Yahoogroups uses a special e-mail address. I know someone who does the same thing, and started getting huge amounts of SPAM from his e-mail used for Kalmbach. So, either Clambake was hacked, or they sold the list of e-mails... > It's already been done. The problem is, these things usually don't even > come from your computer. It could be from anywhere that has access to your > email address.This stuff happens through any number of sources. That's one > reason I'm so down on the "social media" like Facebook, they're prime > sources for where these programs harvest the email addresses. The worst was > Grouply, thank goodness they seem to be dying out. For a time it was so bad > that if I found out anybody on any of my lists was signed up with them they > were dropped immediately. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hackers > > > That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don > Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been > comprimised. > > @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and > then change your passwords. > > This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up > and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. > > I sent the data to our fearless leader. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18021	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

That packaging was used in the 1980's after George Hooks had passed away. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > -- > > Rick Jones > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > may be happy." > -H. L. Mencken >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18022	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/2/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had to take them back off the market. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley Packaging > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > -- > > Rick Jones > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > may be happy." > -H. L. Mencken > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18023	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Don, Thanks for reminding me of why I once steered clear of those new version CV trucks. When I was just starting out with building the craftsman kits like Ambroid in the mid-1960's, I always bought the right style original CV trucks to go with them, despite the cost and was always pleased with them - and still am! I guess the revised trucks are one example of over-reaching in trying to improve an already great product or adapt it to modern (less expensive?) production methods, sort of like making that new "Coke" soda that flopped. By the way, today the third or fourth generation Central Valley still make a number of well received products, but not the trucks. However, they still (at least as of last year) carried one original Central Valley part on their website - the side door caboose door castings! I needed a couple for a restoration and was able to order a little pack of them! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I > would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the > wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had > to take them back off the market. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:36 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley Packaging > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > > > -- > > > > Rick Jones > > > > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > > may be happy." > > -H. L. Mencken > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18024	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9

Hi Chuck,  Was wondering if you found the information about Pacemaker in the Gallery section of HOseeker. It used a Globe/ Athearn F-7 and called it an F-9. The little parts ( horns made of pieces ) gives it away as a Globe body.    I hope the little write up under the picture in the gallery section was helpful.  Larry had ask me to add to all pictures . Got a lot done but more to do and now not feeling right things on hold.                                                                Jim H On 1/1/2012 11:26 AM, ckinzer@... wrote:   Here is an HO brand I've never before.  Didn't see it on HOseeker either.   Ebay item 140673294635 which is a "Pacemaker Line" brand F9 diesel.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacemaker-Line-Diesel-Locomotive-E-M-D-Model-F-9-K-O-Models-w-box-/140673294635?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20c0c8212b Description sa   "This is a vintage Pacemaker Line Diesel Locomotive E.M.D. Model F-9 Distributed by K&O Models in Van Nuys, Calif. Has these small parts in a little bag-the plastic ones haven't even been snapped off yet. Untested. Box wear. Thanks!"   Maybe it's really something like Athearn and custom painted and then distributed or something.   Anybody know?   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18025	From: Charles	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9

Jim: Yes, I found the Pacemaker Line info at HOseeker and it was just fine. Thanks, Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Chuck, > > > Was wondering if you found the information about Pacemaker in the > Gallery section of HOseeker. It used a Globe/ Athearn F-7 and called it > an F-9. The little parts ( horns made of pieces ) gives it away as a > Globe body. > I hope the little write up under the picture in the gallery section was > helpful. Larry had ask me to add to all pictures . Got a lot done but > more to do and now not feeling right things on hold. > > Jim H > > > > > > > On 1/1/2012 11:26 AM, ckinzer@... wrote: > > > > Here is an HO brand I've never before. Didn't see it on HOseeker either. > > Ebay item 140673294635 which is a "Pacemaker Line" brand F9 diesel. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacemaker-Line-Diesel-Locomotive-E-M-D-Model-F-9-K-O-Models-w-box-/140673294635?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20c0c8212b > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacemaker-Line-Diesel-Locomotive-E-M-D-Model-F-9-K-O-Models-w-box-/140673294635?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20c0c8212b> > > Description sa > > "This is a vintage Pacemaker Line Diesel Locomotive E.M.D. Model F-9 > > Distributed by K&O Models in Van Nuys, Calif. Has these small parts in > > a little bag-the plastic ones haven't even been snapped off yet. > > Untested. Box wear. Thanks!" > > Maybe it's really something like Athearn and custom painted and then > > distributed or something. > > Anybody know? > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18026	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Hi Guys, There is a history here on why the trucks were bad and why they were discontinued.  The original owner and creator died and took the secret of how the wheelsets were made with him.  The new owner was unable to recreate a good process right away and Model Railroader magazine gave him bad reviews.  By the time he did get past the problems and finally got good wheelsets, the bad news was everywhere and so, since he could not sell the trucks any longer, he quit making them.  He almost closed up shop, but the really cool Pratt Truss bridge is what saved Central Valley and kept them in business.  So, the problem wasn't one of over-reaching to improve, it was a delay in trying to re-invent a lost art.  The full story is here: http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#three The only real problem with Central Valley quitting the truck making business is that now, we no longer have a decent source of passenger trucks at a decent price.  You can buy similar passenger trucks from PSC, but they aren't cheap and they also have issues with wheelsets.  I have had to "adjust"  PSC wheelsets myself, because they were offset.  Kadee still makes very good freight trucks, so I am ok with that.  I hope Kadee doesn't give up on the very good trucks they make. By the way, I have heard some folks have removed and replaced the Central Valley wheelsets with newer ones and were very pleased with the results.  There never was a problem with the castings, just the wheelsets and the method used to insulate one wheel.  It is a bit of a chore with the passenger trucks, since you have to drill out one rivet and replace it with a machine screw.  If you look at the Central Valley Website home page, they still make trucks for some folks at special request.  I did hear a rumor that they may actually start manufacturing them again. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 14:45:41 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Central Valley Packaging   Don, Thanks for reminding me of why I once steered clear of those new version CV trucks. When I was just starting out with building the craftsman kits like Ambroid in the mid-1960's, I always bought the right style original CV trucks to go with them, despite the cost and was always pleased with them - and still am! I guess the revised trucks are one example of over-reaching in trying to improve an already great product or adapt it to modern (less expensive?) production methods, sort of like making that new "Coke" soda that flopped. By the way, today the third or fourth generation Central Valley still make a number of well received products, but not the trucks. However, they still (at least as of last year) carried one original Central Valley part on their website - the side door caboose door castings! I needed a couple for a restoration and was able to order a little pack of them! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I > would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the > wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had > to take them back off the market. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:36 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley Packaging > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > > > -- > > > > Rick Jones > > > > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > > may be happy." > > -H. L. Mencken > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18027	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Hi Vic B., Thanks for the link to the real facts and the "rest of the story" about those second generation CV trucks. That CC Crow website has many other interesting articles as well. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Guys,There is a history here on why the trucks were bad and why they were discontinued. The original owner and creator died and took the secret of how the wheelsets were made with him. The new owner was unable to recreate a good process right away and Model Railroader magazine gave him bad reviews. By the time he did get past the problems and finally got good wheelsets, the bad news was everywhere and so, since he could not sell the trucks any longer, he quit making them. He almost closed up shop, but the really cool Pratt Truss bridge is what saved Central Valley and kept them in business. So, the problem wasn't one of over-reaching to improve, it was a delay in trying to re-invent a lost art. The full story is here:http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#threeThe only real problem with Central Valley quitting the truck making business is that now, we no longer have a decent source of passenger trucks at a decent price. You can buy similar passenger trucks from PSC, but they aren't cheap and they also have issues with wheelsets. I have had to "adjust" PSC wheelsets myself, because they were offset. Kadee still makes very good freight trucks, so I am ok with that. I hope Kadee doesn't give up on the very good trucks they make.By the way, I have heard some folks have removed and replaced the Central Valley wheelsets with newer ones and were very pleased with the results. There never was a problem with the castings, just the wheelsets and the method used to insulate one wheel. It is a bit of a chore with the passenger trucks, since you have to drill out one rivet and replace it with a machine screw. If you look at the Central Valley Website home page, they still make trucks for some folks at special request. I did hear a rumor that they may actually start manufacturing them again. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: the_plainsman@... > Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 14:45:41 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Central Valley Packaging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don, Thanks for reminding me of why I once steered clear of those new version CV trucks. When I was just starting out with building the craftsman kits like Ambroid in the mid-1960's, I always bought the right style original CV trucks to go with them, despite the cost and was always pleased with them - and still am! I guess the revised trucks are one example of over-reaching in trying to improve an already great product or adapt it to modern (less expensive?) production methods, sort of like making that new "Coke" soda that flopped. By the way, today the third or fourth generation Central Valley still make a number of well received products, but not the trucks. However, they still (at least as of last year) carried one original Central Valley part on their website - the side door caboose door castings! I needed a couple for a restoration and was able to order a little pack of them! W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I > > > would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the > > > wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had > > > to take them back off the market. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@> > > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:36 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley Packaging > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > > > > > > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > > > > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rick Jones > > > > > > > > > > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > > > > may be happy." > > > > -H. L. Mencken > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18028	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

I have long believed that if Kadee started making passenger trucks, they would be very comparable to Central Valley. Probably enough people would buy them to make Kadee a Fortune 500 company! I'd buy tons of them! Recently I bought some Bethlehem Car Works trucks from a fellow on eBay. They seem to work just fine. I bought the Pennsy roller bearing trucks (Similar to John English and Penn Line trucks). This design will fit just fine under Strombecker coaches without carving the underfloor skirts. Did also buy some Symington-Gould tender trucks. Seems that Bethlehem makes many truck designs that no one else does as well. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/3/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Central Valley Packaging To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2012, 11:17 AM   Hi Guys, There is a history here on why the trucks were bad and why they were discontinued.  The original owner and creator died and took the secret of how the wheelsets were made with him.  The new owner was unable to recreate a good process right away and Model Railroader magazine gave him bad reviews.  By the time he did get past the problems and finally got good wheelsets, the bad news was everywhere and so, since he could not sell the trucks any longer, he quit making them.  He almost closed up shop, but the really cool Pratt Truss bridge is what saved Central Valley and kept them in business.  So, the problem wasn't one of over-reaching to improve, it was a delay in trying to re-invent a lost art.  The full story is here: http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#three The only real problem with Central Valley quitting the truck making business is that now, we no longer have a decent source of passenger trucks at a decent price.  You can buy similar passenger trucks from PSC, but they aren't cheap and they also have issues with wheelsets.  I have had to "adjust"  PSC wheelsets myself, because they were offset.  Kadee still makes very good freight trucks, so I am ok with that.  I hope Kadee doesn't give up on the very good trucks they make. By the way, I have heard some folks have removed and replaced the Central Valley wheelsets with newer ones and were very pleased with the results.  There never was a problem with the castings, just the wheelsets and the method used to insulate one wheel.  It is a bit of a chore with the passenger trucks, since you have to drill out one rivet and replace it with a machine screw.  If you look at the Central Valley Website home page, they still make trucks for some folks at special request.  I did hear a rumor that they may actually start manufacturing them again. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 14:45:41 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Central Valley Packaging   Don, Thanks for reminding me of why I once steered clear of those new version CV trucks. When I was just starting out with building the craftsman kits like Ambroid in the mid-1960's, I always bought the right style original CV trucks to go with them, despite the cost and was always pleased with them - and still am! I guess the revised trucks are one example of over-reaching in trying to improve an already great product or adapt it to modern (less expensive?) production methods, sort of like making that new "Coke" soda that flopped. By the way, today the third or fourth generation Central Valley still make a number of well received products, but not the trucks. However, they still (at least as of last year) carried one original Central Valley part on their website - the side door caboose door castings! I needed a couple for a restoration and was able to order a little pack of them! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I > would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the > wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had > to take them back off the market. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:36 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley Packaging > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > > > -- > > > > Rick Jones > > > > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > > may be happy." > > -H. L. Mencken > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18029	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Good Afternoon All, A couple of comments on CV and Kadee trucks/wheels. I worked for REBOXX for several years and was involved closely with developing their wheels sets. If you look at their web site and the charts of the various makers wheels you can get a pretty good idea of the performance difference between stock wheels and REBOXX wheels. I tested hundreds of samples to determine the best axle length and the rolling characteristics. The results for CV and Kadee are actually about average. Not the best and certainly not the worst. In just about all cases, using a wheel set with the optimum axle length improves performance. CV and Kadee trucks look nice but suffer from the same problem; the side frames are too thick. There are other issues with just about all trucks but it's time to get off my hobby horse. Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18030	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Marn-0-Stat revisited

In the photo section, there is an album labelled "Marn-0-Stat" with seven shots. By the time I got it all sorted out, it's just over six feet. One box was disassembled, with some other control system on a 2X6 in the base, but it's all together (after I got a bag of new screws this morning), now I'll wire the assembled one to match the complete one. This WILL be powering a 2-rail trackage, and Tru-Scale to boot, but not half-zero. Got a bunch of Tru-Scale, too, and hopefully many hundreds of feet more, plus a truckload of turnouts. But, Marn-0-Stat isn't limited to smaller scales. Even have some spare throttles and gauges.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18031	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Steve N., All,   The background history of some of our favorite manufacturers' freight and passenger car trucks gets pretty involved. Here are some interesting threads in a quick overview of the subject:    Red Ball founder M. Dale Newton recognized that there were more than just "Bettendorf" trucks used by the prototype railroads and in 1939, began to manufacture many different types, cast of type metal. By contrast, Walthers only offered one type of freight truck during the 1940's and while it had nice enough detail, one type was the limit. Here are some illustrations of the early Red Ball line, courtesy HOSEEKER from Catalog #3, circa 1941: http://hoseeker.com/redball/redballcatalog03pg18.jpg and from Catalog #4, circa 1947, from HO Seeker: http://hoseeker.com/redball/redballcatalog04pg06.jpg   What is more remarkable, in the mid to late 1940's, Newton revised his entire line of trucks, both existing models and producing entirely new ones, all with incredibly fine and sharp detail that was unrivaled, not only for that time, but into modern day scale modeling as well. In 1951, Newton replaced the turned brass wheelsets with new mild steel wheels with finely ribbed backs.  Though the bane of some of us today, as many show signs of surface rust after decades in damp basements; those steel wheels were the result of a cooperative effort with Central Valley! Red Ball News, Vol. 7 No. 3 states in part, " Working in part with Central Valley Model co., we offer these wheels mounted on steel axels (sic) using their superior Dielectic insulation." Here are two catalog pages of the revised truck line from the circa 1952-3 Red Ball catalog, courtesy HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.com/redball/redballcatalog07pg30.jpg http://hoseeker.com/redball/redballcatalog07pg31.jpg   Eventually in the 1950's, Red Ball switched to other wheelsets, though.  Sometime well after Howell Day purchased Red Ball, he spun off the line of beautiful trucks to Henderson House, trading as Cape Line. Cape Line featured the excellent North West Short Line wheelsets, a great combination, even today. Many of today's finer resin scale freight car models, such as those by Sunshine Models were sold along with the proper Red Ball design Cape Line trucks. Here are two Cape Line pages courtesy Rich G. and HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.com/capelines/capelinetruckspg1.jpg http://hoseeker.com/capelines/capelinetruckspg2.jpg   Bethlehem Car Works, in the past decade, has produced and included most of the original Red Ball designs in his huge line of trucks. The process used for casting the sideframes is a bit different, and I believe the centrifugal method is used instead of the brass dies on the old typecasting machines. While the detail is not quite as razor sharp, it is still very good and perfect if you need a specific pair, like the six wheel Pilcher arch bar design for restoring or completing that Red Ball N&W high side gondola! Here is the link to BCW's truck page(which also includes other trucks, not of Red Ball heritage):. http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Kit_Bits/index.html#Trucks   As part of their line, Red Ball included some traction-type trucks needed for modeling certain trolleys , these half dozen or so original Red Ball designs (sideframes 182-185) were pass from BCW and are now manufactured by KND (John Kennedy) here is his link: http://www.pknd.com/Car_Parts_page4.html    Lastly, while the move today among prototypical scale modelers is toward narrower treads .088 vs the old .110, and as Dick W. just pointed out, the more prototypical shallower depth sideframes now being manufactured by newer firms, those old classics will still be fine with our vintage models. To me, it is pretty impressive that Red Ball designs first produced by M. Dale Newton along with his employee John Anderson are still available today, almost 65 years later!       W. Jay W. Ps. Reboxx has an application chart for their replacement wheelsets that covers many vintage HO brands of vintage trucks to keep them rolling smoothly. http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > I have long believed that if Kadee started making passenger trucks, they would be very comparable to Central Valley. Probably enough people would buy them to make Kadee a Fortune 500 company! I'd buy tons of them! > > Recently I bought some Bethlehem Car Works trucks from a fellow on eBay. They seem to work just fine. I bought the Pennsy roller bearing trucks (Similar to John English and Penn Line trucks). This design will fit just fine under Strombecker coaches without carving the underfloor skirts. > > Did also buy some Symington-Gould tender trucks. Seems that Bethlehem makes many truck designs that no one else does as well. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 1/3/12, Victor Bitleris bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > From: Victor Bitleris bitlerisvj@... > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Central Valley Packaging > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2012, 11:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys,There is a history here on why the trucks were bad and why they were discontinued.  The original owner and creator died and took the secret of how the wheelsets were made with him.  The new owner was unable to recreate a good process right away and Model Railroader magazine gave him bad reviews.  By the time he did get past the problems and finally got good wheelsets, the bad news was everywhere and so, since he could not sell the trucks any longer, he quit making them.  He almost closed up shop, but the really cool Pratt Truss bridge is what saved Central Valley and kept them in business.  So, the problem wasn't one of over-reaching to improve, it was a delay in trying to re-invent a lost art.  The full story is here:http://www.cccrow.com/how-2/brass.html#threeThe only real problem with Central Valley quitting the truck making business is that now, we no longer have a decent source of passenger trucks at a decent price.  You can buy > similar passenger trucks from PSC, but they aren't cheap and they also have issues with wheelsets.  I have had to "adjust"  PSC wheelsets myself, because they were offset.  Kadee still makes very good freight trucks, so I am ok with that.  I hope Kadee doesn't give up on the very good trucks they make.By the way, I have heard some folks have removed and replaced the Central Valley wheelsets with newer ones and were very pleased with the results.  There never was a problem with the castings, just the wheelsets and the method used to insulate one wheel.  It is a bit of a chore with the passenger trucks, since you have to drill out one rivet and replace it with a machine screw.  If you look at the Central Valley Website home page, they still make trucks for some folks at special request.  I did hear a rumor that they may actually start manufacturing them again. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: the_plainsman@... > Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 14:45:41 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Central Valley Packaging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Don, Thanks for reminding me of why I once steered clear of those new version CV trucks. When I was just starting out with building the craftsman kits like Ambroid in the mid-1960's, I always bought the right style original CV trucks to go with them, despite the cost and was always pleased with them - and still am! I guess the revised trucks are one example of over-reaching in trying to improve an already great product or adapt it to modern (less expensive?) production methods, sort of like making that new "Coke" soda that flopped. By the way, today the third or fourth generation Central Valley still make a number of well received products, but not the trucks. However, they still (at least as of last year) carried one original Central Valley part on their website - the side door caboose door castings! I needed a couple for a restoration and was able to order a little pack of them! W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ wrote: > > > > > > Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I > > > would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the > > > wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had > > > to take them back off the market. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rick Jones" r.t.jones@ > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:36 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley Packaging > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Central-Valley-Trucks-Freight-Trucks-HO-NIB-/270883161826?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f11e506e2 > > > > > > > > I have never seen Central Valley trucks in the type of packaging > > > > shown in the above auction. When was this used? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rick Jones > > > > > > > > > > > > "A Puritan is a person who has the haunting fear that someone, somewhere > > > > may be happy." > > > > -H. L. Mencken > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18032	From: Jay	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Marn-0-Stat revisited

Wow would be an understatement! What fun! Maybe its time I upgrade my litle blue hammertone finish Varney Power Pack, Model V56A (by Scintilla) with the bright yellow markings! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > In the photo section, there is an album labelled "Marn-0-Stat" with seven shots. > By the time I got it all sorted out, it's just over six feet. > One box was disassembled, with some other control system on a 2X6 in the base, but it's all together (after I got a bag of new screws this morning), now I'll wire the assembled one to match the complete one. > This WILL be powering a 2-rail trackage, and Tru-Scale to boot, but not half-zero. > Got a bunch of Tru-Scale, too, and hopefully many hundreds of feet more, plus a truckload of turnouts. > But, Marn-0-Stat isn't limited to smaller scales. > Even have some spare throttles and gauges. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18033	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging/Red Ball

More on Red Ball trucks. At some point Cape Line sold out to ? (name escapes me but the firm was located in western Mass.). The new owner produced one new design that I know of. It was the correct 4 wheel truck used under B&M versions of the Osgood Bradley 'American Flyer' cars. It came as a kit, was difficult to assemble correctly and was not very sturdy. There may have been other new designs. I talked to the owner at one point as he was trying to sell the business. His story was that OSHA (or some other alphabet agency) was going to shut him down due to the issues around the lead in the trucks. He was also talking about somehow adapting the old dies to be usable in injection molding and making the trucks in plastic. Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18034	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

A Lionel HO 'Husky' diesel (4 wheels, end-cab) and matching caboose were given to me by a neighbor. They are painted white and lettered for 'AEC' - presumably Atomic Energy Commission. There's also a Seaboard flat car with a cradle that might have held a missile, and power pack. Can anyone tell me more about this? Was it from the 1950s? Mark Charles

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18035	From: bcerestrains	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

Hi Mark: The item is from 1959 and most probably from the 5719 set (that had the Seaboard flat with rocket you have). The complete set also had a helicopter load on a flat car and AEC caboose. Bruce --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mark_h_charles" <mark_h_charles@...> wrote: > > A Lionel HO 'Husky' diesel (4 wheels, end-cab) and matching caboose were given to me by a neighbor. They are painted white and lettered for 'AEC' - presumably Atomic Energy Commission. There's also a Seaboard flat car with a cradle that might have held a missile, and power pack. > > Can anyone tell me more about this? Was it from the 1950s? > > Mark Charles >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18036	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

On 1/2/2012 10:05 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Those are the late ones after the line was resurrected in the '80's. I > would definitely stay away from them, I bought a couple pairs, none of the > wheel sets were in gauge. In fact MR gave them such a bad review they had > to take them back off the market. That's what I suspected. I was dormant in the hobby from the later '70s all through the '80s until about '92 when I began to get active again. I loved the CV trucks and kits from the '60s and early '70s. Later I'd heard they had problems after the company was sold and thought these might be the versions that had caused so much trouble. I've never seen these packages until now so had to ask. -- Rick Jones

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18037	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

On 1/3/2012 12:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > I have long believed that if Kadee started making passenger trucks, they > would be very comparable to Central Valley. Probably enough people would > buy them to make Kadee a Fortune 500 company! I'd buy tons of them! Given the outrageous prices that old CV passenger trucks sell for on eBay I have no doubt about that. I still them when I can find them at reasonable cost, or the Kadees for freight. I hate the plastic, rigid frame trucks that everyone else sells. -- Rick Jones Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18038	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: I have this caboose....

Got it Sunday. Looked at first glance like a Vaney plastic centre-cupola unit, but: Has a die-cast frame, metal unsprung trucks screwed to a rivet that drops through the floor, with a big twist-in base light socket, screw-in bulb. Red, Reading, #131, inside the shell is a P-9435. Penn Line? Year? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18039	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: Pacemaker Line F-9

I have one of these diesels, made by K&O... in the original box, decorated for Santa Fe. The body does appear to be a Globe shell, with the same detail parts and nose decal. The only road names listed on the instruction sheet, I'm pretty sure... are SF and PRR. The chassis is die cast, with a vertical motor. This is the track powered version of the HOBO locomotive, a battery powered loco designed for use as an independently running addition to your layout. Also made and/or distributed by K&O.  I have one of the battery powered ones in the original box as well. The battery powered version has a stamped metal chassis, both units appear to use similar, if not almost identical trucks and motors. I remember seeing a trade show report in a magazine from either 1952 or 1954 mentioning the release of these locos by K&O. If you guys are interested, and patient... I'll try to get some pictures up of both pieces.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18040	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: I have this caboose....

Sounds like an AC Gilbert HO caboose. Not 100% sure though. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/3/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] I have this caboose.... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2012, 9:20 PM   Got it Sunday. Looked at first glance like a Vaney plastic centre-cupola unit, but: Has a die-cast frame, metal unsprung trucks screwed to a rivet that drops through the floor, with a big twist-in base light socket, screw-in bulb. Red, Reading, #131, inside the shell is a P-9435. Penn Line? Year? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18041	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: I have this caboose....

I'd found a Penn Line catalog in HOSeeker that looked like it. Couldn't get enough resolution to see. Funny, seems PennLine made one caboose in a run, put it behind everything, no mater loco road name. Anyway, I'd looked for Flyer..American Flyer...AC Gilbert earlier. Before I asked. Didn't find "Gilbert" till just now. About 57 they had a red Reading caboose, lit, looks like it, can't tell on road number for sure. I'll put the screws back and put it with the Flyer stuff! Thanks! Dave > Sounds like an AC Gilbert HO caboose. Not 100% sure though. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 1/3/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] I have this caboose.... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2012, 9:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Got it Sunday. Looked at first glance like a Vaney plastic centre-cupola unit, but: > > > > Has a die-cast frame, metal unsprung trucks screwed to a rivet that drops through the floor, with a big twist-in base light socket, screw-in bulb. Red, Reading, #131, inside the shell is a P-9435. > > > > Penn Line? > > Year? > > > > Thanks. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18042	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Marn-0-Stat revisited

Wow - an awesome haul. I've never seen units this big. We had a single throttle version when I was a young boy (early 60's). Apparently it ceased to work and was never repaired. I loved that thing - the long throw throttles were the best! Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18043	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

Your prize was from the time period after Lionel dumped Rivarossi as their HO builders about 1959-1960. It was made by Athearn and the Hustler they made. The major difference was the Lionel was gear driven while the Athearn was rubber band drive. Both examples were capable of ballistic speeds but, in my opinion, the Athearn was much smoother running and a better puller. Many parts, not including the motor, were interchangeable with the Athearn unit. The Athearn unit was noticeably quieter. The Lionel unit was more expensive at about $9 while the Athearn was $4.95. I have examples of both. Both were long lived depending on how many trips to the floor they made flying off curves. There were several third party items for the units. Those included a die cast trolley body, a nicely geared low speed, drive train, a diecast steeple cab body. The die cast bodies all seemed to be aimed at increasing the pulling power of the little switcher. All of these modified add ons were more expensive than the switcher itself. Joe O'Loughin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18044	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging

Rick Jones..... I recall taking a pair of Rivarossi trucks out of a box to see how well they rolled. They didn't work well until I realized they required the weight of a car to make them function. The result was amazing..... a smooth rolling truck that would literally allow you to move about 50% more cars because of the much lower friction in the trucks. Several of my hobby shop customers bought enough to convert their entire fleets. For a while our supply of these super trucks were sold out as soon as they arrived. They sold for less than many of the other available trucks. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18045	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

----- Original Message ----- From: "oljoe" <oljoe@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <rbtldavis@...> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 6:41 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC > Your prize was from the time period after Lionel dumped Rivarossi as > their HO builders > about 1959-1960. It was made by Athearn and the Hustler they made. The > major difference was the > Lionel was gear driven while the Athearn was rubber band drive. Both > examples > were capable of ballistic speeds but, in my opinion, the Athearn was > much smoother > running and a better puller. Many parts, not including the motor, were > interchangeable with the Athearn unit. The Athearn unit was noticeably > quieter. The > Lionel unit was more expensive at about $9 while the Athearn was $4.95. > I have > examples of both. Both were long lived depending on how many trips to the > floor they made flying off curves. > > There were several third party items for the units. Those included a > die cast trolley body, > a nicely geared low speed, drive train, a diecast steeple cab body. The > die cast bodies > all seemed to be aimed at increasing the pulling power of the little > switcher. All of these > modified add ons were more expensive than the switcher itself. > > Joe O'Loughin To expand on that a little , not sure about the Trolley body, but the box cab diesel body was Cary, and may still be available from Bowser. The gear reduction unit for the rubber band versions was Ernst. On a side note, about five minutes ago I finished putting the Ernst gear set in one of my two powered Athearn RDC's. Many people have given these bad reviews, but I'm happy enough with it I'm going to put them in my other powered unit as well. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18046	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: I have this caboose....

Did you look at "http://www.gilbertho.org/", specifically, "http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/131.htm"? On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:46 AM, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:   I'd found a Penn Line catalog in HOSeeker that looked like it. Couldn't get enough resolution to see. Funny, seems PennLine made one caboose in a run, put it behind everything, no mater loco road name. Anyway, I'd looked for Flyer..American Flyer...AC Gilbert earlier. Before I asked. Didn't find "Gilbert" till just now. About 57 they had a red Reading caboose, lit, looks like it, can't tell on road number for sure. I'll put the screws back and put it with the Flyer stuff! Thanks! Dave > Sounds like an AC Gilbert HO caboose. Not 100% sure though. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 1/3/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] I have this caboose.... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2012, 9:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Got it Sunday. Looked at first glance like a Vaney plastic centre-cupola unit, but: > > > > Has a die-cast frame, metal unsprung trucks screwed to a rivet that drops through the floor, with a big twist-in base light socket, screw-in bulb. Red, Reading, #131, inside the shell is a P-9435. > > > > Penn Line? > > Year? > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18047	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

Don...... Yes I do remember the Ernst gear unit - have one. I'll have to find that Trolley body and report back after I find it. I have a pretty good idea where it's at. As I recall the mfg was unknown to me. Stay tuned. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18048	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Penn Line flood light truck?

Attachments : PennLine.JPG Happy New Year everyone! Have a new acquisition I want some info on... Has anyone ever seen a truck like this and can they tell me anything about it?   Thanks, Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18049	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Kadee Uncouplers

Steve, The under track magnet should work fine if attached to the EZ track underside. The Kadee electro magnet should also work. But, have you considered the Bachmann uncoupler magnet, designed to be attached to the underside of the EZ track? Stock #78999. The magnet is one per card and includes a "brakeman" figure to be spotted alongside the concealed magnet. It works fine with all of my magnetic coupler stock. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/1/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > All, > > While not really a "Vintage HO" question, I figure there's enough experience > between all the members here that someone will know an answer to this: > > I use two different couplers on my layout: Roughly half my stock uses Mantua > loop couplers, half uses Kadees. I have fabricated my own Mantua uncoupler > ramps for those couplers. > > I use Bachmann EZ-Track, and can screw the uncoupler ramps I make, into the > plastic roadbed. This leaves the Kadees: I saw on Kadee's website just now, > a #308 under track magnet. Anyone here know if I can cement this under > Bachmann EZ-Track? I am thinking I can cement it under where the Mantua > ramps are mounted, so no matter what couplers the cars are using, they can > be uncoupled the same place. Important around cattle yards where spotting > cars with doors at the chutes, is important. > > Mantua couplers are brass, thankfully, and won't be affected by the magnet > (Ramp would push 'em up, magnet would pull them down if they were a ferrous > metal!) > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18050	From: oljoe	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

The "trolley" body called a "little scoot" by Paul Moore is, in fact, a diecast body for the Hustler - either Lionel or Athearn. It looks much like a "Brill" trolley. In my opinion it is ill-suited to either Lionel or Athearn chassis because of their ability to run at a ballistic speed. The inevitable wrecks would soon destroy the diecast body of the trolley. The one I have has the Athearn chassis but no motor and the wheels have been replaced with smaller wheelsets. Much to my surprise I also found an interurban die cast body meant for use with the Athearn F-7 chassis. It too was made by Paul Moore. My example has a working F-7 rubber band drive installed. The F-7 chassis is also capable of very high speed operation. Both items are complete with a full set of assembly directions. I got them from an ebay auction in 2004. They have been resting comfortably in my "to-do" cabinet since 2004. Both bodies are painted. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18051	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: RDC re-power (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for

I also re-powered an Athearn RDC with an Ernst kit (probably over ten years ago), and I was very happy with the results. The unit performs very nicely at all speeds. Mike On 1/4/2012 8:44 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > To expand on that a little , not sure about the Trolley body, but the box > cab diesel body was Cary, and may still be available from Bowser. The gear > reduction unit for the rubber band versions was Ernst. > > On a side note, about five minutes ago I finished putting the Ernst gear > set > in one of my two powered Athearn RDC's. Many people have given these bad > reviews, but I'm happy enough with it I'm going to put them in my other > powered unit as well. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18052	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line flood light truck? [1 Attachment]

Hi Sean,   The compressor and search light are Penn Line.  If the trailer had the pinch over rods on the rear axle and the almost o-ring profiled tires, then it is Penn Line.  The tractor looks like a Ulrich, as Penn Line had the Ford cab over tractor.  That tractor seems to have the Ulrich tires.  Penn Line did sell the trailer with the compressor and search light as an item.  I have one also.  Mine came unpainted.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 10:14 AM To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Penn Line flood light truck? [1 Attachment]     Happy New Year everyone!   Have a new acquisition I want some info on... Has anyone ever seen a truck like this and can they tell me anything about it?   Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18053	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line flood light truck?

Attachments : pennline2.JPG Thanks Chick for the confirmation. I knew the truck/tractor was Ulrich, but I was not sure about the trailer. I did get a better clip from the listing here and you can see the rubber tires on the trailer. I have a feeling this is a pretty rare piece as I have never seen one before. It was in this listing last night here: ULRICH HO SCALE DIECAST TRUCKS AND DIECAST FLATBED WITH... Later!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2012 12:47 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Penn Line flood light truck?   Hi Sean,   The compressor and search light are Penn Line.  If the trailer had the pinch over rods on the rear axle and the almost o-ring profiled tires, then it is Penn Line.  The tractor looks like a Ulrich, as Penn Line had the Ford cab over tractor.  That tractor seems to have the Ulrich tires.  Penn Line did sell the trailer with the compressor and search light as an item.  I have one also.  Mine came unpainted.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 10:14 AM To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Penn Line flood light truck? [1 Attachment]     Happy New Year everyone!   Have a new acquisition I want some info on... Has anyone ever seen a truck like this and can they tell me anything about it?   Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18054	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: RDC re-power (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered

I bought an Athearn RDC at a train meet that someone had replaced the rubber band trucks with geared ones from an F7 (I think). It runs very smooth but looks a little different with the black side frames. I'm thinking of either replacing or painting them silver. One nice thing about it is that it will pull at least 5 unpowered cars.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Sloane To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 12:07 PM Subject: RDC re-power (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC   I also re-powered an Athearn RDC with an Ernst kit (probably over ten years ago), and I was very happy with the results. The unit performs very nicely at all speeds. Mike On 1/4/2012 8:44 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > > To expand on that a little , not sure about the Trolley body, but the box > cab diesel body was Cary, and may still be available from Bowser. The gear > reduction unit for the rubber band versions was Ernst. > > On a side note, about five minutes ago I finished putting the Ernst gear > set > in one of my two powered Athearn RDC's. Many people have given these bad > reviews, but I'm happy enough with it I'm going to put them in my other > powered unit as well. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18055	From: Rick Steele	Date: 1/5/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley Packaging/Red Ball

Dick, Look at Bethlehem Car Works, under their kit bits - trucks area and I think you'll find almost the complete line of Red Ball Trucks. Rick Steele --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, acace@... wrote: > > More on Red Ball trucks. > > At some point Cape Line sold out to ? (name escapes me but the firm was > located in western Mass.). The new owner produced one > new design that I know of. It was the correct 4 wheel truck used under > B&M versions of the Osgood Bradley 'American Flyer' cars. > It came as a kit, was difficult to assemble correctly and was not very > sturdy. There may have been other new designs. > > I talked to the owner at one point as he was trying to sell the business. > His story was that OSHA (or some other alphabet agency) was going to > shut him down due to the issues around the lead in the trucks. He was > also talking about somehow adapting the old dies to be usable in > injection molding and making the trucks in > plastic. > > Dick Waite >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18058	From: ford35lh	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: PFM Shay

I have a 2 truck PFM Shay that has been stored for 30 years. PFM made this smaller Shay in HO and HOn3. I think it was the same engine with different power trucks. Might they have been named the Benson and Kowichan ??? Can anyone confirm this theory ??? If I am correct, does anyone have a set of HOn3 trucks to sell or swap for the HO trucks ??? thanks ford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18059	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: PFM Shay

Ford, You can have one of several Shays made by PFM or some other manufacture that were produced in both H O and H O n3 gauges.  To assist with proper identification can you post a photo? O therwise it will lead to a lot of speculation and we might give you wrong info.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > I have a 2 truck PFM Shay that has been stored for 30 years. > PFM made this smaller Shay in HO and HOn3. > I think it was the same engine with different power trucks. > Might they have been named the Benson and Kowichan ??? > Can anyone confirm this theory ??? > > If I am correct, does anyone have a set of HOn3 trucks to sell > or swap for the HO trucks ??? > > thanks > ford >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18060	From: ford35lh	Date: 1/7/2012
Subject: Re: PFM Shay

No pictures until I get a new camera. Spent the pm digging it out. It is the Hillcrest Shay. ford --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Ford, > > You can have one of several Shays made by PFM or some other manufacture > that were produced in both HO and HOn3 gauges. To assist with proper > identification can you post a photo? Otherwise it will lead to a lot of > speculation and we might give you wrong info. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > I have a 2 truck PFM Shay that has been stored for 30 years. > > PFM made this smaller Shay in HO and HOn3. > > I think it was the same engine with different power trucks. > > Might they have been named the Benson and Kowichan ??? > > Can anyone confirm this theory ??? > > > > If I am correct, does anyone have a set of HOn3 trucks to sell > > or swap for the HO trucks ??? > > > > thanks > > ford > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18061	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Fwd: Walthers Pug Passenger & Varney wood & plastic

Attachments : IMG_7493.JPG IMG_7492.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Walthers Pug Passenger & Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:28:33 -0500 First I'm sending pictures for two different things. One picture ( the bottom one ) IMG 7493 JPG. This is the set of Varney wood and celluloid picture. I have all parts I need for 7 cars. I am missing an 8th car, Pullman Atlantis. I have been completely rebuilding the bodies since the glue had dried out. I sanded all the roofs. Rebuilt the wood diaphragms. The 3 cars (longwise) are finished being sanded . Underneath and the side cowlings are sanded. The four cars showing the floors need the underneaths sanded and the the fuel tanks ?, air tanks? , battery boxes ? , etc. glued on the bottom. While I'm getting sick of sanding I had to repair ( putty ) the cutouts for the trucks. All of them were not the best and some really bad . I think you can see the grey on the upside down ones that have to be reshaped to match. Some were cut real low and had to be almost totally built up. Taking a lot of time but why do it half way. The other picture I'm sending IMG_7492.JPG (top picture)is the mint set in boxes of the 77 series of metal bodied, plastic roof PUG passenger cars  in Brunswick Green or Tuscan Red ( mine are the green ). 7701 postal,  7702 Baggage, 7703 Combine, 7704 Coach, 7705 Diner, 7706 Pullman and 7707 Observation. 7701 & 7702 use the same instruction / assembly sheet  as does 7703 & 7705 on same sheet, 7704 & 7706 on the same sheet. Only 7707 OBS is on separate sheet. Also the back of the sheets are the same for all. Might have not even been from the group asking. Well closing for now before I pass out from flu that started last Fri. Jim

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18062	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Walthers Pug Passenger & Varney wood & plastic [2 Attachmen

Hi All, I have ONE #7705 PUG Diner in the BeeJay purple box sub labeled "Walthers Specialities Inc. If anyone is interested enough to make an offer I would like to get rid of it. It is the unbuilt Tuscan red kit complete with trucks and ancient decals - even the brown paper that laid on top of the model in the box. Box shows wear from all the years traveling around the country. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/8/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Walthers Pug Passenger & > Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:28:33 -0500 > > > > > > > > > First I'm sending pictures for two different things. One > picture ( the bottom one ) IMG 7493 JPG. This is the set of Varney wood > and celluloid picture. I have all parts I need for 7 cars. I am > missing an 8th car, Pullman Atlantis. I have been completely rebuilding > the bodies since the glue had dried out. I sanded all the roofs. Rebuilt > the wood diaphragms. The 3 cars (longwise) are finished being sanded . > Underneath and the side cowlings are sanded. The four cars showing the > floors need the underneaths sanded and the the fuel tanks ?, air tanks? > , battery boxes ? , etc. glued on the bottom. While I'm getting sick of > sanding I had to repair ( putty ) the cutouts for the trucks. All of > them were not the best and some really bad . I think you can see the > grey on the upside down ones that have to be reshaped to match. Some > were cut real low and had to be almost totally built up. Taking a lot > of time but why do it half way. > > > The other picture I'm sending IMG_7492.JPG (top picture)is the mint set > in boxes of the 77 series of metal bodied, plastic roof PUG passenger cars > in Brunswick Green or Tuscan Red ( mine are the green ). 7701 postal, > 7702 Baggage, 7703 Combine, 7704 Coach, 7705 Diner, 7706 Pullman > and 7707 Observation. 7701& 7702 use the same instruction / assembly sheet > as does 7703& 7705 on same sheet, 7704& 7706 on the same sheet. Only > 7707 OBS is on separate sheet. Also the back of the sheets are the same > for all. Might have not even been from the group asking. Well closing for > now > before I pass out from flu that started last Fri. > > Jim > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18063	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: PFM Shay

Ford, The Benson Shay was the one that was offered by PFM in both H O and H O n3 gauges.  PFM offered a H O n3 gauge Shay called the Cowichan.   In the late 1970's they also offered the Harrington Shay in both H O and H O n3 gauges.    O ccasionally you can find H O n3 trucks for sale on Ebay that can be used to convert a standard gauge model to narrow gauge.  To the best of my knowledge besides the trucks there was no difference between the standard gauge and narrow gauge versions of these models.  O n the Hillcrest and Benson Shays, the bottom of the side frames tend to touch the tops of the rails when crossing turnouts or crossings.  This causes a short that can be difficult to locate.  This issue can be cured by filing the nut and bolt detail as well as a slight portion of that lower member off the bottom of each side frame and applying a heavy coat of paint or a plastic coating.  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > No pictures until I get a new camera. > Spent the pm digging it out. > It is the Hillcrest Shay. > ford > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > Ford, > > > > You can have one of several Shays made by PFM or some other manufacture > > that were produced in both HO and HOn3 gauges. To assist with proper > > identification can you post a photo? Otherwise it will lead to a lot of > > speculation and we might give you wrong info. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a 2 truck PFM Shay that has been stored for 30 years. > > > PFM made this smaller Shay in HO and HOn3. > > > I think it was the same engine with different power trucks. > > > Might they have been named the Benson and Kowichan ??? > > > Can anyone confirm this theory ??? > > > > > > If I am correct, does anyone have a set of HOn3 trucks to sell > > > or swap for the HO trucks ??? > > > > > > thanks > > > ford > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18064	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Scale-Craft Reefer Doors

All, I am aware that Scale-Craft is American OO, and Don, forgive me for this post, but I do know that there are some American OO people in this list as well. I saw the hobby shop owner today. We were talking about, among other things, re-casting vintage model parts. He's ordering me a kit that will allow me to make plastic recastings of parts I need in quantity. In particular, I have about 20 (Maybe more) Scale-Craft American OO reefer cars. Many are missing one or both doors, though. The earlier ones were cast, later ones were stamped brass and nailed over the side. Nearly all mine are the earlier ones. I am fixing to get this re casting kit, and make my own doors, albeit out of plastic. Anyone here maybe need replacement Scale-Craft reefer doors? It probably won't be for a couple months till I get any done, but I am looking to gauge any interest. There was a fellow on this list, by the way, that was interested in American OO trucks. Seemed as though his emails kept ending up in my Spam filter. Don't remember the name though, of who it was? Are you still around? Thanks Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18065	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

I've uploaded to the files section - the loco shell is plastic, not metal. Caboose certainly looks like Athearn's models. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcerestrains" <bceres@...> wrote: > > Hi Mark: > > The item is from 1959 and most probably from the 5719 set (that had the Seaboard flat with rocket you have). The complete set also had a helicopter load on a flat car and AEC caboose. > > Bruce > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mark_h_charles" <mark_h_charles@> wrote: > > > > A Lionel HO 'Husky' diesel (4 wheels, end-cab) and matching caboose were given to me by a neighbor. They are painted white and lettered for 'AEC' - presumably Atomic Energy Commission. There's also a Seaboard flat car with a cradle that might have held a missile, and power pack. > > > > Can anyone tell me more about this? Was it from the 1950s? > > > > Mark Charles > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18066	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel HO diesel lettered for AEC

I've only seen diecast metal ended bodies with composite sides and wood roofs for these Paul Moore Little Scoot kits. I suspect that a lot more like that were made than the fully cast ones. Here's a link to one of his Little Scoot catalog pages.. http://hoseeker.com/paulmoore/paulmooreadvertisementtrolleycar560pg2.jpg Mike Bauers On Jan 4, 2012, at 10:44 AM, oljoe wrote: > The "trolley" body called a "little scoot" by Paul Moore is, in fact, a > diecast body for > the Hustler - either Lionel or Athearn. It looks much like a "Brill" > trolley. In my opinion > it is ill-suited to either Lionel or Athearn chassis because of their > ability to > run at a ballistic speed. The inevitable wrecks would soon destroy the > diecast > body of the trolley. The one I have has the Athearn chassis but no > motor and the > wheels have been replaced with smaller wheelsets. > > Much to my surprise I also found an interurban die cast body meant for > use with > the Athearn F-7 chassis. It too was made by Paul Moore. My example has a > working F-7 rubber band drive installed. The F-7 chassis is also > capable of > very high speed operation. > > Both items are complete with a full set of assembly directions. I got > them from > an ebay auction in 2004. They have been resting comfortably in my "to-do" > cabinet since 2004. > > Both bodies are painted. > > Joe O'Loughlin > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18067	From: cp_draw	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: Marn-0-Stat revisited

Wow! Model railroaders had better semiconductor control than full scale people through the middle 1960s. Not to mention prewar AC traction in tinplate!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18068	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Fwd: no regrets after doing this venture!!

I feel guilty that I cant provide for my family my life would still be miserable without this I had reached my wits end. http://savan.home.pl/profile/75MatthewCampbel/ it proved that miracles can happen this could be your big break bye...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18069	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /V List Railmaster cars.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of Railmaster cars You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/V%20List%20Railmaster%20cars.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18070	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Jay, Ray and all, I have updated the file with the numbers identified by Jay.  Thanks Jay.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:25 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers     Hi All and especially Ray F. W., For those unfamiliar with it, Railmaster was one of those short lived freight car manufacturers of pressure die cast zamac freight cars circa 1950, featuring mostly open top cars such as hoppers and gons.  Ray F.W. has a file here on our Vintage HO website of Railmaster kits and also contains an informative history of the line.  In my opinion, quality was equal to the Ulrich line, though as Ray notes,  assembly a bit more difficult.  In fact, my discovery of an assembled B&O 65' mill gon at a local train show about 10 years ago led me to first think it was an older Ulrich model.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18071	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: MORONS no regrets after doing this venture!!

So, looking at the addresses in this spam message, I still see the MichaelH-at-embracehomeloans-dot-com, which is the same as last time, and I see a couple I would ask about as "plants" in the Yahoo system. You probably can't find them if you don't get e-mail alerts. I mean, I know how to communicate with don.dellman, but who is lexy? The ones with e-mail IP as "jmesales.com" is probably allright. Just wonder how they stay undercover. > <p>I feel guilty that I cant provide for my family my life would still be miserable without this I had reached my wits end.<br><a href="http://savan.home.pl/profile/75MatthewCampbel/">http://savan.home.pl/profile/75MatthewCampbel/</a> it proved that miracles can happen<br>this could be your big break<br><br>bye...</p> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18072	From: Jay	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Thnaks, Chuck for your efforts in updating the files. It is fun to be able to add a bit to the information. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Jay, Ray and all, I have updated the file with the numbers identified by > Jay. Thanks Jay. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jay > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:25 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers > > > > > > Hi All and especially Ray F. W., > > For those unfamiliar with it, Railmaster was one of those short lived > freight car manufacturers of pressure die cast zamac freight cars circa > 1950, featuring mostly open top cars such as hoppers and gons. Ray F.W. has > a file here on our Vintage HO website of Railmaster kits and also contains > an informative history of the line. In my opinion, quality was equal to the > Ulrich line, though as Ray notes, assembly a bit more difficult. In fact, > my discovery of an assembled B&O 65' mill gon at a local train show about 10 > years ago led me to first think it was an older Ulrich model. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18073	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Fwd: who made this coupler ?

Attachments : IMG_7542.JPG IMG_7540.JPG IMG_7539.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: who made this coupler ? Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually gives good close ups The piece is very small. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18074	From: John H	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?

Boy, I remember seeing them advertized back kin the 50's-60's but can't come up with who right now. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: who made this coupler ? > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 > > > > > > > > Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made > these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. > My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually > gives good close ups > The piece is very small. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18075	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?

I know John Allen of Gorre & Daphited fame, made a coupler. It was called the Baker. It doesn't resemble yours at all though. That's the only one I know of. Dom From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 5:42:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?   Boy, I remember seeing them advertized back kin the 50's-60's but can't come up with who right now. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: who made this coupler ? > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 > > > > > > > > Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made > these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. > My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually > gives good close ups > The piece is very small. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18076	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments]

Jim, and all, Walthers. In fact, here's a link to an ad for them in the files section of this group: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8MIMTxHP00xZeNZ_7JVfSAjPn1N2kN8_bDvHTlbqTtBZttDFvk9sa9RNOEFGux3FqJ7A76V87gQWSGFYbF5ejAf1knsBg2-vl4TurPxHkqgZnqEm/Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf Or better yet, look under the "files" section, and look for a tile called "Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf" -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/10/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 4:16 PM   -------- Original Message -------- Subject: who made this coupler ? Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually gives good close ups The piece is very small. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments]

It's hard to tell from the photos but is the "thumb" sheet metal? If it is, I'm going to guess Walthers. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments] > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: who made this coupler ? > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 > > > > > > > > Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made > these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. > My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually > gives good close ups > The piece is very small. > > Jim H > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18078	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: My latest acquisitions

I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows all of them together: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ Harry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18079	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials each one is made of to be definitive. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows all of them together: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> Harry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18080	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

If you are not going to use the Mantua couplers, I need them, screws and all. Dave > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > all of them together: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > Harry >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18081	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Thanks, Don. The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > each one is made of to be definitive. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > all of them together: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > Harry >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18082	From: Glenn	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?

John did NOT make the Baker coupler.   glenn Joesten   From: DOM ST.JOHN Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:47 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?   I know John Allen of Gorre & Daphited fame, made a coupler. It was called the Baker. It doesn't resemble yours at all though. That's the only one I know of. Dom     From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 5:42:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?   Boy, I remember seeing them advertized back kin the 50's-60's but can't come up with who right now. John Hagen --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: who made this coupler ? > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 > > > > > > > > Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made > these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. > My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually > gives good close ups > The piece is very small. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18083	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?

I stand corrected! I remembered reading of the Baker coupler and it's use on the Gorre & Daphited.  I took it as being  a John Allen creation. I did go back and look at the Baker and see that I am wrong. Dom From: Glenn <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 7:33:27 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?   John did NOT make the Baker coupler.   glenn Joesten   From: DOM ST.JOHN Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:47 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?   I know John Allen of Gorre & Daphited fame, made a coupler. It was called the Baker. It doesn't resemble yours at all though. That's the only one I know of. Dom     From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 5:42:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?   Boy, I remember seeing them advertized back kin the 50's-60's but can't come up with who right now. John Hagen --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: who made this coupler ? > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 > > > > > > > > Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made > these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. > My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually > gives good close ups > The piece is very small. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18084	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: who made this coupler ?

Steve,       Your guess is on the money. It was produced by Walthers and made to use on passenger cars. As to freight I don't know as I don't collect freight cars so have no way of knowing.  Just know it shows up on PUG ( 7700  series)   assemble/ instruction  . Started to be made pre war around 1940 and used for a number of years. Don't know how good they worked. I had a number of them lying around but never knew who made them. I actually always thought they were made by a person because they look like a hand made item. Good answer.                                                    Jim H On 1/10/2012 6:04 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Jim, and all, Walthers. In fact, here's a link to an ad for them in the files section of this group: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8MIMTxHP00xZeNZ_7JVfSAjPn1N2kN8_bDvHTlbqTtBZttDFvk9sa9RNOEFGux3FqJ7A76V87gQWSGFYbF5ejAf1knsBg2-vl4TurPxHkqgZnqEm/Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf Or better yet, look under the "files" section, and look for a tile called "Walthers_auto_coupler.pdf" -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/10/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: who made this coupler ? [3 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 4:16 PM   -------- Original Message -------- Subject: who made this coupler ? Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:13:58 -0500 Have a little fun and see if you know or can guess who made these HO working couplers. I had wonder a little while but now I know. My micro fine setting on my camera didn't seem to want to work. usually gives good close ups The piece is very small. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18085	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

As for the box car, are there tabs folded under the floor with screws? The tabs indicate a Globe, no tabs would be Athearn. The flat is most likely Varney. People more knowledgeable than I could tell by the road number. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > Thanks, Don. > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and > I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, > not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are > original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already > drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden > floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, > as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the > frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > Harry > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? >> >> Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. >> >> The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal >> >> I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what >> materials >> each one is made of to be definitive. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions >> >> >> I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building >> whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a >> train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the >> items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted >> photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows >> all of them together: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> >> >> Harry >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18086	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Globe it is, then. There are square tabs at the corners and 2 small tabs along each side. They look to be fastened with brads rather than screws in this case. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > As for the box car, are there tabs folded under the floor with screws? The > tabs indicate a Globe, no tabs would be Athearn. > > The flat is most likely Varney. People more knowledgeable than I could tell > by the road number. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and > > I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden > > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, > > not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are > > original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already > > drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden > > floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, > > as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the > > frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > Harry > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ wrote: > >> > >> Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > >> > >> Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > >> > >> The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > >> > >> I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what > >> materials > >> each one is made of to be definitive. > >> > >> Don > >> > >> Don Dellmann > >> don.dellmann@ > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> Owner > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > >> > >> > >> I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > >> whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > >> train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > >> items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > >> photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > >> all of them together: > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > >> > >> Harry > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18087	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Hi, Reefer and gondola at least appear to be AC Gilbert. I have that reefer on my layout too. Mine also has badly deteriorating decals. Planning someday to repaint and reletter it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/10/12, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 5:43 PM   I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows all of them together: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ Harry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18088	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Steve is correct. LNE gondola is Gilbert #131 (http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/117.htm), or #205 (http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/205.htm); and the refer is Gilbert #113 (http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/113.htm), or #201 (http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/201.htm). Walter On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Hi, Reefer and gondola at least appear to be AC Gilbert. I have that reefer on my layout too. Mine also has badly deteriorating decals. Planning someday to repaint and reletter it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/10/12, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 5:43 PM   I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows all of them together: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ Harry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18089	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

I haven't decided yet, but if I do replace the Mantua couplers, I'll keep you in mind for them, Dave. It seems like three quarters of my recent purchases in all channels have come with them. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > If you are not going to use the Mantua couplers, I need them, screws and all. > Dave > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > all of them together: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > Harry > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18090	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Thanks, Steve and Walter! I was able to tell about the gondola because the information was cast in its inside floor, but I didn't see any markings on the reefer. I appreciate the links, too. I'll have to spend some time looking around there. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Steve is correct. LNE gondola is Gilbert #131 ( > http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/117.htm), or #205 ( > http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/205.htm); and the refer is Gilbert > #113 (http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/113.htm), or #201 ( > http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/201.htm). > > Walter > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Stephen Neubaum < > computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Reefer and gondola at least appear to be AC Gilbert. I have that reefer on > > my layout too. Mine also has badly deteriorating decals. Planning someday > > to repaint and reletter it. > > > > -Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On *Tue, 1/10/12, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...>* wrote: > > > > > > From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 5:43 PM > > > > > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building whose > > construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a train show > > this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the items, however, > > and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted photos in my Flickr > > account; here's a link to the first one, which shows all of them together: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > > > Harry > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18091	From: erieberk	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Harry, Globe made only GN (w/"See America First/Glacier National Park" herald), RI ("Route Of The Rockets") and C&O ("C And O For Progress") in aluminum. All other Globe box cars were of brass. You have an IMP (International Model Production) B&O boxcar there. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > Globe it is, then. There are square tabs at the corners and 2 small tabs > along each side. They look to be fastened with brads rather than screws > in this case. > > Harry > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > wrote: > > > > As for the box car, are there tabs folded under the floor with screws? > The > > tabs indicate a Globe, no tabs would be Athearn. > > > > The flat is most likely Varney. People more knowledgeable than I > could tell > > by the road number. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:23 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > > > > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, > Pa., and > > > I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden > > > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the > trucks, > > > not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are > > > original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes > already > > > drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a > wooden > > > floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood > inside, > > > as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just > the > > > frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ > wrote: > > >> > > >> Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > >> > > >> Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > >> > > >> The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > >> > > >> I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what > > >> materials > > >> each one is made of to be definitive. > > >> > > >> Don > > >> > > >> Don Dellmann > > >> don.dellmann@ > > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > >> Owner > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > >> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > >> > > >> > > >> I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard > building > > >> whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, > at a > > >> train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > >> items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > >> photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which > shows > > >> all of them together: > > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > >> > > >> Harry > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18092	From: erieberk	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Harry, The only all-diecast (and factory painted & lettered) PFE reefer I can come up with would be an MDC/Roundhouse product. You don't give a car number, but you might want to check the Roundhouse spread sheet I put in the files (with the help of Chuck Higdon with posting it there), to compare the car side numbers. What I'm not sure of your meaning though, is that you state yours doesn't have a solid floor. If not "solid," what is it . . . hollow? MDC cast boxcars and reefers have a die-cast floor; can't get any more solid than that. Maybe your floor was broken by the previous modeler and he improvised by using a wood floor? Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Don. > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > Harry > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > > each one is made of to be definitive. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > all of them together: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > Harry > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18093	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Attachments : metal cars.jpg I didn't mention IMP because Harry said it had a wood floor, and every IMP I've seen had a metal floor. The easiest and seemingly surest way to tell them apart is the location of the tabs. IMP has the tabs offset. Globe they're opposite each other. Athearn has no tabs. See the attachment for examples of what I'm talking about. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > Harry, > > Globe made only GN (w/"See America First/Glacier National Park" herald), > RI ("Route Of The Rockets") and C&O ("C And O For Progress") in aluminum. > All other Globe box cars were of brass. You have an IMP (International > Model Production) B&O boxcar there. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: >> >> Globe it is, then. There are square tabs at the corners and 2 small tabs >> along each side. They look to be fastened with brads rather than screws >> in this case. >> >> Harry >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> >> wrote: >> > >> > As for the box car, are there tabs folded under the floor with screws? >> The >> > tabs indicate a Globe, no tabs would be Athearn. >> > >> > The flat is most likely Varney. People more knowledgeable than I >> could tell >> > by the road number. >> > >> > Don >> > >> > Don Dellmann >> > don.dellmann@ >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> > Owner >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:23 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions >> > >> > >> > > Thanks, Don. >> > > >> > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, >> Pa., and >> > > I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. >> > > >> > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden >> > > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the >> trucks, >> > > not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are >> > > original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes >> already >> > > drilled in the wooden subfloor. >> > > >> > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a >> wooden >> > > floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood >> inside, >> > > as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. >> > > >> > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just >> the >> > > frame/bolsters for the trucks. >> > > >> > > Harry >> > > >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? >> > >> >> > >> Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. >> > >> >> > >> The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal >> > >> >> > >> I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what >> > >> materials >> > >> each one is made of to be definitive. >> > >> >> > >> Don >> > >> >> > >> Don Dellmann >> > >> don.dellmann@ >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> > >> Owner >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > >> >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ >> > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM >> > >> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard >> building >> > >> whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, >> at a >> > >> train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the >> > >> items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted >> > >> photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which >> shows >> > >> all of them together: >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ >> > >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> >> > >> >> > >> Harry >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------------ >> > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18094	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Hi Harry! That NP flat car looks like a Varney flat car to me. It has what appears to be a pressed steel body over the wood base.  I posted on the flickr page it is displayed on.  Nice acquisition!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions   Thanks, Don. The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > each one is made of to be definitive. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > all of them together: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > Harry >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18095	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

The tabs are offset, so I guess it's an IMP. I've uploaded a photo of the underside of the car here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680970749/. Thanks, Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I didn't mention IMP because Harry said it had a wood floor, and every IMP > I've seen had a metal floor. > > The easiest and seemingly surest way to tell them apart is the location of > the tabs. > > IMP has the tabs offset. Globe they're opposite each other. Athearn has no > tabs. > > See the attachment for examples of what I'm talking about. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erieberk" erieberk@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:40 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > > > > Harry, > > > > Globe made only GN (w/"See America First/Glacier National Park" herald), > > RI ("Route Of The Rockets") and C&O ("C And O For Progress") in aluminum. > > All other Globe box cars were of brass. You have an IMP (International > > Model Production) B&O boxcar there. > > > > Ray F.W. > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ wrote: > >> > >> Globe it is, then. There are square tabs at the corners and 2 small tabs > >> along each side. They look to be fastened with brads rather than screws > >> in this case. > >> > >> Harry > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > As for the box car, are there tabs folded under the floor with screws? > >> The > >> > tabs indicate a Globe, no tabs would be Athearn. > >> > > >> > The flat is most likely Varney. People more knowledgeable than I > >> could tell > >> > by the road number. > >> > > >> > Don > >> > > >> > Don Dellmann > >> > don.dellmann@ > >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> > Owner > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:23 PM > >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks, Don. > >> > > > >> > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, > >> Pa., and > >> > > I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > >> > > > >> > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden > >> > > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the > >> trucks, > >> > > not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are > >> > > original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes > >> already > >> > > drilled in the wooden subfloor. > >> > > > >> > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a > >> wooden > >> > > floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood > >> inside, > >> > > as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > >> > > > >> > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just > >> the > >> > > frame/bolsters for the trucks. > >> > > > >> > > Harry > >> > > > >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > >> > >> > >> > >> Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > >> > >> > >> > >> The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what > >> > >> materials > >> > >> each one is made of to be definitive. > >> > >> > >> > >> Don > >> > >> > >> > >> Don Dellmann > >> > >> don.dellmann@ > >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> > >> Owner > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > >> > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > >> > >> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard > >> building > >> > >> whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, > >> at a > >> > >> train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > >> > >> items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > >> > >> photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which > >> shows > >> > >> all of them together: > >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > >> > >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > >> > >> > >> > >> Harry > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------------------ > >> > > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18096	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Ray, The reefer (#35901) is a match for the pre-war Gilbert reefers that Steve & Walter suggested. It is open to the bottom, as I hope can be seen in this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680991591/. I don't know whether it came that way or if a solid floor piece is missing. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The only all-diecast (and factory painted & lettered) PFE reefer I can come up with would be an MDC/Roundhouse product. You don't give a car number, but you might want to check the Roundhouse spread sheet I put in the files (with the help of Chuck Higdon with posting it there), to compare the car side numbers. What I'm not sure of your meaning though, is that you state yours doesn't have a solid floor. If not "solid," what is it . . . hollow? MDC cast boxcars and reefers have a die-cast floor; can't get any more solid than that. Maybe your floor was broken by the previous modeler and he improvised by using a wood floor? > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ wrote: > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > Harry > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > > > > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > > > > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > > > > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > > > each one is made of to be definitive. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > > all of them together: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > > > Harry > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18097	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Thanks, Sean! A magnet does stick to it. The body is certainly very thin. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Harry! > That NP flat car looks like a Varney flat car to me. It has what appears to be a pressed steel body over the wood base.  > > I posted on the flickr page it is displayed on.  Nice acquisition! > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18098	From: Lon Walker	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Harry,     The frame looks just like an HO version of a Tru Model S gauge car by Gilbert.  Lon From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 4:32 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions   Ray, The reefer (#35901) is a match for the pre-war Gilbert reefers that Steve & Walter suggested. It is open to the bottom, as I hope can be seen in this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680991591/. I don't know whether it came that way or if a solid floor piece is missing. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The only all-diecast (and factory painted & lettered) PFE reefer I can come up with would be an MDC/Roundhouse product. You don't give a car number, but you might want to check the Roundhouse spread sheet I put in the files (with the help of Chuck Higdon with posting it there), to compare the car side numbers. What I'm not sure of your meaning though, is that you state yours doesn't have a solid floor. If not "solid," what is it . . . hollow? MDC cast boxcars and reefers have a die-cast floor; can't get any more solid than that. Maybe your floor was broken by the previous modeler and he improvised by using a wood floor? > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ wrote: > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > Harry > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > > > > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > > > > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > > > > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > > > each one is made of to be definitive. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > > all of them together: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > > > Harry > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18099	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Harry (and all), There isn't a fill-in for that frame. It is left open by the manufacturer. By my experience, those castings can become somewhat brittle, so be careful with them. You may want to put in a shim or spacer inside that reefer. It's possible to crush the car sides in. Found this the hard way once. Was carrying a freshly lettered car from my bedroom (Which has my repairs workbench), to the living room (Which has the layout). Stepped wrong on my bad knee, almost collapsed. My grip tightened on the Gilbert car, and crushed in the sides. As I said, I had just repainted and lettered this one too! Needless to say I was almost in tears, and not from physical pain either! My other one awaiting restoration, has had wooden shims put in, glued inside the car. That ought'a help prevent an accident like this! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/11/12, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 11, 2012, 4:32 PM   Ray, The reefer (#35901) is a match for the pre-war Gilbert reefers that Steve & Walter suggested. It is open to the bottom, as I hope can be seen in this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680991591/. I don't know whether it came that way or if a solid floor piece is missing. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The only all-diecast (and factory painted & lettered) PFE reefer I can come up with would be an MDC/Roundhouse product. You don't give a car number, but you might want to check the Roundhouse spread sheet I put in the files (with the help of Chuck Higdon with posting it there), to compare the car side numbers. What I'm not sure of your meaning though, is that you state yours doesn't have a solid floor. If not "solid," what is it . . . hollow? MDC cast boxcars and reefers have a die-cast floor; can't get any more solid than that. Maybe your floor was broken by the previous modeler and he improvised by using a wood floor? > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ wrote: > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > Harry > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > > > > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > > > > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > > > > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > > > each one is made of to be definitive. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > > all of them together: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > > > Harry > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18100	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: To Jerry S re Kar-Line

Apologies all for group post...Jerry Stevenson's e-mail address has evaporated from a) my synapses and b) my terminal! Just a quick 'THANKS JERRY!' for posting the Kar-Line inventory...arrived intact y'day! If you could contact me directly at russell.shiel(at)adelaide.edu.au I can organize reimbursement of your postage, copying etc. Much appreciate you making the effort to share your collated data. Cheers! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18101	From: erieberk	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Harry, Many, many thanks for clarifying that. Not being very familiar with Gilbert H0, especially pre-War production, I wasn't aware that Gilbert produced all-cast metal reefers. Other than Gilbert, except for a few Red Ball express reefers, the only factory-finished (painted and decorated) all-cast-metal reefers and boxcars I know of is Roundhouse but I now see that Gilbert made them this way too, now that you've pointed this out. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > The reefer (#35901) is a match for the pre-war Gilbert reefers that > Steve & Walter suggested. It is open to the bottom, as I hope can be > seen in this photo: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680991591/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680991591/> . I don't know > whether it came that way or if a solid floor piece is missing. > > Harry > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote: > > > > Harry, > > > > The only all-diecast (and factory painted & lettered) PFE reefer I can > come up with would be an MDC/Roundhouse product. You don't give a car > number, but you might want to check the Roundhouse spread sheet I put in > the files (with the help of Chuck Higdon with posting it there), to > compare the car side numbers. What I'm not sure of your meaning though, > is that you state yours doesn't have a solid floor. If not "solid," > what is it . . . hollow? MDC cast boxcars and reefers have a die-cast > floor; can't get any more solid than that. Maybe your floor was broken > by the previous modeler and he improvised by using a wood floor? > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, > Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see > them. > > > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the > trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks > are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes > already drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a > wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood > inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just > the frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > > > > > > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > > > > > > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > > > > > > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what > materials > > > > each one is made of to be definitive. > > > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > > don.dellmann@ > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > > Owner > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > > > > > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard > building > > > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, > at a > > > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of > the > > > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which > shows > > > > all of them together: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18102	From: erieberk	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Don, I find your remark interesting, to say the least. I'd enjoy it if any others here could say the same thing, as I always like a good discussion on the makers of metal sided cars. Have a question though, since you mention the IMP cars that you've seen. Only as I'm curious, do you own any IMP cars yourself, or were these cars you saw owned by someone else? What leads me to this question is that I was wondering if you have the kit box and/or whether you may have even built any of these. I have to presume you haven't seen very many of these IMP (more precisely, Tenshodo-built, IMP/Takara) cars, and that those you did see were either already built up and that you took no note of the box (or it was missing), or that if you built them you no longer have the boxes and may have forgotten their manufacturer; not taking away from what you recollect in seeing but I don't think you saw IMP cars as built from kits. Yes, the offset tabs would show that the car could be an IMP car, as Harry stated of his wooden floor B&O boxcar. I'll get back to this statement (of "could") shortly, but before doing so I just want to mention that I have a fair collection (at least 50) of IMP cars -- some built, but mostly still as kits -- and none of them have metal floors. The kit instructions clearly show a wooden floor as the construction of them indicate these cars having a wood sub roof, two wood sub ends and a wood floor with a cast metal frame installed on the bottom of it. All of the IMP catalogs I have also illustrates the kits as having a wood floor, as the exploded plans view shows. What you may have seen (or built?), having a metal floor, may have been either Tenshodo/Shinohara or Tenshodo/New One cars, which were not made for IMP but were very similar cars sold under those manfacturer names. Then too, I believe that the factory built ("Kustom-Bilt") IMP cars may have come assembled with a metal floor, and that you may have seen these, but I'd have to check my collection to make sure they came that way. We know that Mantua had metal floors, but this is not to confuse them with IMP. Those members here who had belong to Spanagel's HOSC&H SIG "Reporting Mark" publication may want to read further about IMP, in the 8-page article I wrote in 1987, in Vol. 5, No, 4, pgs 9 through 16 (page 15 has an instruction sheet). Thanks again Don, for your input in this manufacturer's subject as I'm really am interested in what you may have seen as appearing as IMP's and having metal floors. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I didn't mention IMP because Harry said it had a wood floor, and every IMP > I've seen had a metal floor. > > The easiest and seemingly surest way to tell them apart is the location of > the tabs. > > IMP has the tabs offset. Globe they're opposite each other. Athearn has no > tabs. > > See the attachment for examples of what I'm talking about. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:40 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > > > > Harry, > > > > Globe made only GN (w/"See America First/Glacier National Park" herald), > > RI ("Route Of The Rockets") and C&O ("C And O For Progress") in aluminum. > > All other Globe box cars were of brass. You have an IMP (International > > Model Production) B&O boxcar there. > > > > Ray F.W. > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> wrote: > >> > >> Globe it is, then. There are square tabs at the corners and 2 small tabs > >> along each side. They look to be fastened with brads rather than screws > >> in this case. > >> > >> Harry > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > As for the box car, are there tabs folded under the floor with screws? > >> The > >> > tabs indicate a Globe, no tabs would be Athearn. > >> > > >> > The flat is most likely Varney. People more knowledgeable than I > >> could tell > >> > by the road number. > >> > > >> > Don > >> > > >> > Don Dellmann > >> > don.dellmann@ > >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> > Owner > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:23 PM > >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks, Don. > >> > > > >> > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, > >> Pa., and > >> > > I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > >> > > > >> > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden > >> > > subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the > >> trucks, > >> > > not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are > >> > > original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes > >> already > >> > > drilled in the wooden subfloor. > >> > > > >> > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a > >> wooden > >> > > floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood > >> inside, > >> > > as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > >> > > > >> > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just > >> the > >> > > frame/bolsters for the trucks. > >> > > > >> > > Harry > >> > > > >> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > >> > >> > >> > >> Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > >> > >> > >> > >> The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what > >> > >> materials > >> > >> each one is made of to be definitive. > >> > >> > >> > >> Don > >> > >> > >> > >> Don Dellmann > >> > >> don.dellmann@ > >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> > >> Owner > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ > >> > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > >> > >> Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard > >> building > >> > >> whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, > >> at a > >> > >> train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > >> > >> items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > >> > >> photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which > >> shows > >> > >> all of them together: > >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > >> > >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > >> > >> > >> > >> Harry > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------------------ > >> > > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18103	From: erieberk	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line

G'Day Russ, Looks like you received a hard copy of sorts, of Kar Line inventory. Glad to see your getting this info as it can be sketchy with some kits being dropped over the years while others are added. I appreciate Chuck posting the Kar Line list of his from 1972-73 in the files. I don't have any info from that manufacturer, that early. Now, getting back to the Kar Line discussion we had going on at the end of November, in just now going through my files for IMP info, I came across more Kar Line information which I didn't realize I had (I have a four-draw file cabinet, much of it being H0 literature), and have to apologize when I indicated that Kar Line had no catalogs. I was talking from memory and forgot all about what I had in the files. I came across a Kar Line Reference Catalog, dated August 21, 1975, sent to me by the manufacturer back then. It includes all of the regular production cars that were being produced in that time-frame, although I haven't compared it with Chuck's list to see which early kits were dropped. Also have an Order Form dated 5/15/78 that I acquired somewhere along the way, probably similar to those a few other's mentioned having. Additionally, I found a hand-written letter I received in February 1979, from J. M. Madsen of Kar Line, along with an expanded Order Form for their regular production kits and a Special Limited Edition Order Form which included all of those cars produced in short quantities, like #2313 MILW 50' smooth side plug door box car (box car red), having yellow doors, aluminum roof, large "MILWAUKEE" herald and "LRD" on the door. Had to mention that one for Don!!! There are 75 cars on this Special list -- none of which are GN. If any Kar Line cars should go for high prices today, you'd think that it would be these cars, so I don't see the reasoning behind the regular runs going for phenominal amounts of money. Chuck, if you'd like to post these lists in the files, I'll send you copies of them. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > Apologies all for group post...Jerry Stevenson's e-mail address has evaporated from a) my synapses and b) my terminal! Just a quick 'THANKS JERRY!' for posting the Kar-Line inventory...arrived intact y'day! If you could contact me directly at russell.shiel(at)adelaide.edu.au I can organize reimbursement of your postage, copying etc. Much appreciate you making the effort to share your collated data. Cheers! Russ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18104	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

I'm not so sure about the frame.  Gary Klein's book on Gilbert HO notes a diecast frame and shows a photo of the bottom of a reefer with a solid frame.   That frame in Harry's photo looks like a tank car frame to me.   The Gilbert tank car was 1/4 inch shorterr than the reefer, so it would sort of fit.  (5-13/16 for the reefer vs. 5-9/16 for the tank car.)   By the way, the photos of both the 113 and 201 on the Gilbert HO site are from Gary's collection. Dale Smith On 1/11/2012 3:05 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Harry (and all), There isn't a fill-in for that frame. It is left open by the manufacturer. By my experience, those castings can become somewhat brittle, so be careful with them. You may want to put in a shim or spacer inside that reefer. It's possible to crush the car sides in. Found this the hard way once. Was carrying a freshly lettered car from my bedroom (Which has my repairs workbench), to the living room (Which has the layout). Stepped wrong on my bad knee, almost collapsed. My grip tightened on the Gilbert car, and crushed in the sides. As I said, I had just repainted and lettered this one too! Needless to say I was almost in tears, and not from physical pain either! My other one awaiting restoration, has had wooden shims put in, glued inside the car. That ought'a help prevent an accident like this! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/11/12, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 11, 2012, 4:32 PM   Ray, The reefer (#35901) is a match for the pre-war Gilbert reefers that Steve & Walter suggested. It is open to the bottom, as I hope can be seen in this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6680991591/. I don't know whether it came that way or if a solid floor piece is missing. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The only all-diecast (and factory painted & lettered) PFE reefer I can come up with would be an MDC/Roundhouse product. You don't give a car number, but you might want to check the Roundhouse spread sheet I put in the files (with the help of Chuck Higdon with posting it there), to compare the car side numbers. What I'm not sure of your meaning though, is that you state yours doesn't have a solid floor. If not "solid," what is it . . . hollow? MDC cast boxcars and reefers have a die-cast floor; can't get any more solid than that. Maybe your floor was broken by the previous modeler and he improvised by using a wood floor? > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" hbutlerlists@ wrote: > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > The switcher is definitely Hobbyline. I now live in Morrisville, Pa., and I've decided that I should buy trains made here when I see them. > > > > The NP flat car (#61201) is thin metal (deck & sides) with a wooden subfloor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. The couplers are on the trucks, not in a pocket on the floor, but I don't know that the trucks are original. It looks like there are holes for mounting coupler boxes already drilled in the wooden subfloor. > > > > The B&O box is #467107. It is very thin metal (aluminum?), with a wooden floor and diecast frame/bolsters piece. There might be more wood inside, as it looks like the metal roofwalk is held on by pins or brads. > > > > The PFE reefer is all diecast. It doesn't have a solid floor, just the frame/bolsters for the trucks. > > > > Harry > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > Is the Lehigh Valley switcher brass or plastic? > > > > > > Plastic would make it a Hobbyline, Brass probably a Barr-Nixon. > > > > > > The B&O boxcar looks like an Athearn Metal > > > > > > I'm guessing Varney on the NP flat car, but we'd need to know what materials > > > each one is made of to be definitive. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:43 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] My latest acquisitions > > > > > > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > > all of them together: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > > > Harry > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18105	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Fwd: Varney wood & celluloid pass. cars

Attachments : IMG_7555.JPG IMG_7554.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Varney wood & celluloid pass. cars Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 15:57:30 -0500 From: To: I'm finally making some head way on my pre war set of Varney ( B&O colors ) wood and celluloid passenger car set minus the Pullman Atlantis. I have 6 car bodies complete and ready to seal. One car has to be finished. It is the top car that is upside down showing it needs to be sanded, Boxes and Tanks added and if you look close at the wheel wells you will noticed the putty build up as the cut outs for the wheels were poorly done on all cars and I had to try to match all up, I added new wood frame diaphragms where needed,and it took a lot of time sanding the bodies and sanding roofs to try to get a good paint job on the cars. Luckily I have the parts to complete the 7 cars : 14 Varney wheel sets from that time, all 14 of the celluloid sides, the set of plans to show placement of boxes and tanks, all 7 bodies complete and 14 of the large loop couplers with all the parts. It will still take a while to paint and fully assemble adding some handrails and ladders. Still it's worth it to add to my vintage collection. Fills in another space. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18106	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Varney wood & celluloid Pass. Cars

Attachments : IMG_7555_2.JPG IMG_7554_2.JPG IMG_7548_2.JPG Sorry one of the pictures got lost in Cyber . From my end only 2 of the 3 showed up so here is the 3rd one. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18107	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Attachments : japan box.jpg FWIW, I only have a couple that were purchased used and complete . The only IMP kit I've built is the NYC coach, which did have a wooden floor. It was always my understanding that Tenshodo built for IMP, I wasn't aware of the cars being available as kits. It was other members here that told me they were IMP cars. The boxes do not have any names on them, I have attached a picture of one. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > Don, > > I find your remark interesting, to say the least. I'd enjoy it if any > others here could say the same thing, as I always like a good discussion > on the makers of metal sided cars. Have a question though, since you > mention the IMP cars that you've seen. Only as I'm curious, do you own > any IMP cars yourself, or were these cars you saw owned by someone else? > What leads me to this question is that I was wondering if you have the kit > box and/or whether you may have even built any of these. I have to > presume you haven't seen very many of these IMP (more precisely, > Tenshodo-built, IMP/Takara) cars, and that those you did see were either > already built up and that you took no note of the box (or it was missing), > or that if you built them you no longer have the boxes and may have > forgotten their manufacturer; not taking away from what you recollect in > seeing but I don't think you saw IMP cars as built from kits. > > Yes, the offset tabs would show that the car could be an IMP car, as Harry > stated of his wooden floor B&O boxcar. I'll get back to this statement > (of "could") shortly, but before doing so I just want to mention that I > have a fair collection (at least 50) of IMP cars -- some built, but mostly > still as kits -- and none of them have metal floors. The kit instructions > clearly show a wooden floor as the construction of them indicate these > cars having a wood sub roof, two wood sub ends and a wood floor with a > cast metal frame installed on the bottom of it. All of the IMP catalogs I > have also illustrates the kits as having a wood floor, as the exploded > plans view shows. > > What you may have seen (or built?), having a metal floor, may have been > either Tenshodo/Shinohara or Tenshodo/New One cars, which were not made > for IMP but were very similar cars sold under those manfacturer names. > Then too, I believe that the factory built ("Kustom-Bilt") IMP cars may > have come assembled with a metal floor, and that you may have seen these, > but I'd have to check my collection to make sure they came that way. We > know that Mantua had metal floors, but this is not to confuse them with > IMP. > > Those members here who had belong to Spanagel's HOSC&H SIG "Reporting > Mark" publication may want to read further about IMP, in the 8-page > article I wrote in 1987, in Vol. 5, No, 4, pgs 9 through 16 (page 15 has > an instruction sheet). Thanks again Don, for your input in this > manufacturer's subject as I'm really am interested in what you may have > seen as appearing as IMP's and having metal floors. > > Ray F. W.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18108	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model

Hi all, Here is a link to an ended eBay auction showing the frame of an early Gilbert reefer. It is not a solid frame. Look at the third picture. Hope this helps. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250959327871#description

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18109	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model

Well, you can't argue with that photo, so it seems clear that the open frame is more than just a modeler's modification.   My guess is that there were probably both kinds of frames.   I have posted the photo from the 2nd edition of Gary's book which shows the bottom of a reefer with a clearly solid bottom on the Gilbert HO website.  http://www.gilbertho.org/reeferbottom.jpg  Granted the photo is probably of a Merchants Despatch reefer, based on the white side paint, but I doubt that Gilbert would have different frames for two basically identical cars.  One difference between the earlier and later cars is that the couplers were mounted on the trucks on the later cars made in 1940-1942 and on the frame on the earlier cars made in 1938 & 1939.  It would be interesting to know if the solid frames vs. the open frames were used in different years.  Dale Smith On 1/12/2012 5:43 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote:   Hi all, Here is a link to an ended eBay auction showing the frame of an early Gilbert reefer. It is not a solid frame. Look at the third picture. Hope this helps. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250959327871#description

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18110	From: Lon Walker	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model

Hi Dale,      If you look at the first to pictures you will see that it is a PFE reefer.  My PFE reefer has a solid frame like yours. The S gauge die cast freight cars were made for only a short time and had the open frame. A lot of them had the rot problem. Perhaps the first HO also had the open frame and Gilbert quickly changed to the solid frame.  Lon From: Dale F. Smith <dalefsmith@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert reefer frame, Tru-Model   Well, you can't argue with that photo, so it seems clear that the open frame is more than just a modeler's modification.   My guess is that there were probably both kinds of frames.   I have posted the photo from the 2nd edition of Gary's book which shows the bottom of a reefer with a clearly solid bottom on the Gilbert HO website.  http://www.gilbertho.org/reeferbottom.jpg  Granted the photo is probably of a Merchants Despatch reefer, based on the white side paint, but I doubt that Gilbert would have different frames for two basically identical cars.  One difference between the earlier and later cars is that the couplers were mounted on the trucks on the later cars made in 1940-1942 and on the frame on the earlier cars made in 1938 & 1939.  It would be interesting to know if the solid frames vs. the open frames were used in different years.  Dale Smith On 1/12/2012 5:43 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote:   Hi all, Here is a link to an ended eBay auction showing the frame of an early Gilbert reefer. It is not a solid frame. Look at the third picture. Hope this helps. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250959327871#description

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18111	From: erieberk	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Yes, you're quite correct -- Tenshodo built the cars (kits and factory-built) and engines for IMP/Takara, as I mentioned, but they also built for New One and Shinohara. It's easily understandable, being told by others and not having original boxes for the ones you purchased used and already built, that you were misinformed and that they were mistaken since Tenshodo built for these other two companies -- besides also building for themselves. I forgot to mention that in my previous message, but Tenshodo offered kits in nearly identical boxes to those that IMP (and the other two outlets) came in, under their own name (Tenshodo). Thanks for supplying the pic of the boxes your used cars came in, as this answers a lot of the mystery here. The high boxes that these cars came in show that these cars were factory built and came pre-assembled -- so that answers one part that they weren't kits. All kit boxes, whether from IMP, New One, Shinohara or Tenshodo, were very low flat boxes (perhaps an inch or so high) that, once assembled, the cars could no longer be put back into them. Athough ALL of these kit boxes were nearly identical, even having similar paper covering of the box top (IMP's has an "alligator-skin" type of appearance, similar to but not identical to the pattern on yours), ALL of IMP's boxes has the name -- International Models, Inc. By the boxes being so similar though, and being generic to all four companies, it would appear that Tenshodo also supplied the boxes to all four of them, but with different printing on the box top for each company. Those kits that Tenshodo offered under their own name had Tenshodo printed on the box top. Somewhat plainer box tops were produced for New One, and your box having only the more simplified printing on it of Railroad Model (I think that's what I read last night when I opened it), would indicate that your cars are indeed New One's. You're right though, that having a metal bottom specifically identifies them as Tenshodo (factory-built) production, although not being sold under the Tenshodo label, and not being IMP. BTW, Tenshodo also built engines for IMP, to be sold under the IMP label, and a good number of different accessories. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > FWIW, I only have a couple that were purchased used and complete . The only > IMP kit I've built is the NYC coach, which did have a wooden floor. It was > always my understanding that Tenshodo built for IMP, I wasn't aware of the > cars being available as kits. > > It was other members here that told me they were IMP cars. The boxes do not > have any names on them, I have attached a picture of one. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:27 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > > > > Don, > > > > I find your remark interesting, to say the least. I'd enjoy it if any > > others here could say the same thing, as I always like a good discussion > > on the makers of metal sided cars. Have a question though, since you > > mention the IMP cars that you've seen. Only as I'm curious, do you own > > any IMP cars yourself, or were these cars you saw owned by someone else? > > What leads me to this question is that I was wondering if you have the kit > > box and/or whether you may have even built any of these. I have to > > presume you haven't seen very many of these IMP (more precisely, > > Tenshodo-built, IMP/Takara) cars, and that those you did see were either > > already built up and that you took no note of the box (or it was missing), > > or that if you built them you no longer have the boxes and may have > > forgotten their manufacturer; not taking away from what you recollect in > > seeing but I don't think you saw IMP cars as built from kits. > > > > Yes, the offset tabs would show that the car could be an IMP car, as Harry > > stated of his wooden floor B&O boxcar. I'll get back to this statement > > (of "could") shortly, but before doing so I just want to mention that I > > have a fair collection (at least 50) of IMP cars -- some built, but mostly > > still as kits -- and none of them have metal floors. The kit instructions > > clearly show a wooden floor as the construction of them indicate these > > cars having a wood sub roof, two wood sub ends and a wood floor with a > > cast metal frame installed on the bottom of it. All of the IMP catalogs I > > have also illustrates the kits as having a wood floor, as the exploded > > plans view shows. > > > > What you may have seen (or built?), having a metal floor, may have been > > either Tenshodo/Shinohara or Tenshodo/New One cars, which were not made > > for IMP but were very similar cars sold under those manfacturer names. > > Then too, I believe that the factory built ("Kustom-Bilt") IMP cars may > > have come assembled with a metal floor, and that you may have seen these, > > but I'd have to check my collection to make sure they came that way. We > > know that Mantua had metal floors, but this is not to confuse them with > > IMP. > > > > Those members here who had belong to Spanagel's HOSC&H SIG "Reporting > > Mark" publication may want to read further about IMP, in the 8-page > > article I wrote in 1987, in Vol. 5, No, 4, pgs 9 through 16 (page 15 has > > an instruction sheet). Thanks again Don, for your input in this > > manufacturer's subject as I'm really am interested in what you may have > > seen as appearing as IMP's and having metal floors. > > > > Ray F. W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18112	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!

hello I used to borrow money from all my friends I took my chances with this my options were fading fast! http://100panatag.com/newsjournal/52IanMitchell/ it proved that miracles can happen the sky is the limit goodbye!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18113	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

I THINK I got all that <G>. If I'm following this, all the Japanese cars probably came originally from the same factory, but in different forms from different importers. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 9:53 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions > Yes, you're quite correct -- Tenshodo built the cars (kits and > factory-built) and engines for IMP/Takara, as I mentioned, but they also > built for New One and Shinohara. It's easily understandable, being told > by others and not having original boxes for the ones you purchased used > and already built, that you were misinformed and that they were mistaken > since Tenshodo built for these other two companies -- besides also > building for themselves. I forgot to mention that in my previous message, > but Tenshodo offered kits in nearly identical boxes to those that IMP (and > the other two outlets) came in, under their own name (Tenshodo). > > Thanks for supplying the pic of the boxes your used cars came in, as this > answers a lot of the mystery here. The high boxes that these cars came in > show that these cars were factory built and came pre-assembled -- so that > answers one part that they weren't kits. All kit boxes, whether from IMP, > New One, Shinohara or Tenshodo, were very low flat boxes (perhaps an inch > or so high) that, once assembled, the cars could no longer be put back > into them. > > Athough ALL of these kit boxes were nearly identical, even having similar > paper covering of the box top (IMP's has an "alligator-skin" type of > appearance, similar to but not identical to the pattern on yours), ALL of > IMP's boxes has the name -- International Models, Inc. By the boxes being > so similar though, and being generic to all four companies, it would > appear that Tenshodo also supplied the boxes to all four of them, but with > different printing on the box top for each company. Those kits that > Tenshodo offered under their own name had Tenshodo printed on the box top. > Somewhat plainer box tops were produced for New One, and your box having > only the more simplified printing on it of Railroad Model (I think that's > what I read last night when I opened it), would indicate that your cars > are indeed New One's. You're right though, that having a metal bottom > specifically identifies them as Tenshodo (factory-built) production, > although not being sold under the Tenshodo label, and not being IMP. > > BTW, Tenshodo also built engines for IMP, to be sold under the IMP label, > and a good number of different accessories. > > Ray F. W. > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> FWIW, I only have a couple that were purchased used and complete . The >> only >> IMP kit I've built is the NYC coach, which did have a wooden floor. It >> was >> always my understanding that Tenshodo built for IMP, I wasn't aware of >> the >> cars being available as kits. >> >> It was other members here that told me they were IMP cars. The boxes do >> not >> have any names on them, I have attached a picture of one. >> >> Don >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "erieberk" <erieberk@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:27 AM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions >> >> >> > Don, >> > >> > I find your remark interesting, to say the least. I'd enjoy it if any >> > others here could say the same thing, as I always like a good >> > discussion >> > on the makers of metal sided cars. Have a question though, since you >> > mention the IMP cars that you've seen. Only as I'm curious, do you own >> > any IMP cars yourself, or were these cars you saw owned by someone >> > else? >> > What leads me to this question is that I was wondering if you have the >> > kit >> > box and/or whether you may have even built any of these. I have to >> > presume you haven't seen very many of these IMP (more precisely, >> > Tenshodo-built, IMP/Takara) cars, and that those you did see were >> > either >> > already built up and that you took no note of the box (or it was >> > missing), >> > or that if you built them you no longer have the boxes and may have >> > forgotten their manufacturer; not taking away from what you recollect >> > in >> > seeing but I don't think you saw IMP cars as built from kits. >> > >> > Yes, the offset tabs would show that the car could be an IMP car, as >> > Harry >> > stated of his wooden floor B&O boxcar. I'll get back to this statement >> > (of "could") shortly, but before doing so I just want to mention that I >> > have a fair collection (at least 50) of IMP cars -- some built, but >> > mostly >> > still as kits -- and none of them have metal floors. The kit >> > instructions >> > clearly show a wooden floor as the construction of them indicate these >> > cars having a wood sub roof, two wood sub ends and a wood floor with a >> > cast metal frame installed on the bottom of it. All of the IMP >> > catalogs I >> > have also illustrates the kits as having a wood floor, as the exploded >> > plans view shows. >> > >> > What you may have seen (or built?), having a metal floor, may have been >> > either Tenshodo/Shinohara or Tenshodo/New One cars, which were not made >> > for IMP but were very similar cars sold under those manfacturer names. >> > Then too, I believe that the factory built ("Kustom-Bilt") IMP cars may >> > have come assembled with a metal floor, and that you may have seen >> > these, >> > but I'd have to check my collection to make sure they came that way. >> > We >> > know that Mantua had metal floors, but this is not to confuse them with >> > IMP. >> > >> > Those members here who had belong to Spanagel's HOSC&H SIG "Reporting >> > Mark" publication may want to read further about IMP, in the 8-page >> > article I wrote in 1987, in Vol. 5, No, 4, pgs 9 through 16 (page 15 >> > has >> > an instruction sheet). Thanks again Don, for your input in this >> > manufacturer's subject as I'm really am interested in what you may have >> > seen as appearing as IMP's and having metal floors. >> > >> > Ray F. W. >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18114	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!

I've been trying to stop this. The trojan has been removed from my computer, but AT&T won't LET me change my passwords. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <raul@...>; <haggis@...>; <jncknych@...>; <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <David_J_Hamilton@...>; <MichaelH@...>; <lexy.dellmann@...>; <WSOR@yahoogroups.com>; <mephili@...>; <bayerw@...>; <don@...>; <tcol@...> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18115	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0 switcher?

In going through my MR DVD, I saw ads in 1961 by Athearn for an 0-6-0 switch engine (with tender, not a tank engine). It appeared to be gear drive with valve gear and selling for $8.95(!) as "ready to build". Did that product ever make it to market? I don't think I ever saw one in the stores. Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18116	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 switcher?

Yeah. Check HOSeeker for diagrams. I have one. Not all that uncommon. They made three steamers (in different variations), the 0-4-2T Lil Monster, the 0-6-0, and the 4-6-2. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > In going through my MR DVD, I saw ads in 1961 by Athearn for an 0-6-0 > switch engine (with tender, not a tank engine). It appeared to be gear > drive with valve gear and selling for $8.95(!) as "ready to build". Did > that product ever make it to market? I don't think I ever saw one in the > stores. > > Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18117	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!

Probably because the trojan set a new password in your service, and now AT&T doesn't know YOU. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I've been trying to stop this. The trojan has been removed from my > computer, but AT&T won't LET me change my passwords. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > To: <raul@...>; <haggis@...>; <jncknych@...>; > <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <David_J_Hamilton@...>; > <MichaelH@...>; <lexy.dellmann@...>; > <WSOR@yahoogroups.com>; <mephili@...>; <bayerw@...>; > <don@...>; <tcol@...> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 10:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Re: no economic problems since i started it!! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18118	From: Alan	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: odd operating coupler

I just got these couplers,I'm hoping to use them on steam as operating front couplers by opening jaws from side so as to avoid trip pin hitting pilot,(they open with horizontal rod that pushes into brass inside of knuckle to open)and long non-drilled shank that can be filed to shape,can anyone ID these,seller told me they were found in box of old varney train loco parts. Alan e-bay item #140675014899

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18119	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: odd operating coupler

These appear to be K&W couplers, used in the prewar era and marketed to HO and OO scale. O scale versions exist too. Here's something about them in the American OO Today blog: http://americanoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/mystery-automatic-coupler.html I have some of these couplers myself. One pair pulled from a Varney paper and wood express reefer, one additional coupler pulled from a Scale-Craft car. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/13/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] odd operating coupler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 13, 2012, 8:59 PM   I just got these couplers,I'm hoping to use them on steam as operating front couplers by opening jaws from side so as to avoid trip pin hitting pilot,(they open with horizontal rod that pushes into brass inside of knuckle to open)and long non-drilled shank that can be filed to shape,can anyone ID these,seller told me they were found in box of old varney train loco parts. Alan e-bay item #140675014899

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18120	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: odd operating coupler

Thanks Steven,    I thought they might be old but not that old,                                 Alan From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] odd operating coupler   These appear to be K&W couplers, used in the prewar era and marketed to HO and OO scale. O scale versions exist too. Here's something about them in the American OO Today blog: http://americanoo.blogspot.com/2010/02/mystery-automatic-coupler.html I have some of these couplers myself. One pair pulled from a Varney paper and wood express reefer, one additional coupler pulled from a Scale-Craft car. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/13/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] odd operating coupler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 13, 2012, 8:59 PM   I just got these couplers,I'm hoping to use them on steam as operating front couplers by opening jaws from side so as to avoid trip pin hitting pilot,(they open with horizontal rod that pushes into brass inside of knuckle to open)and long non-drilled shank that can be filed to shape,can anyone ID these,seller told me they were found in box of old varney train loco parts. Alan e-bay item #140675014899

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18121	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: ancient Walthers couplers

Does anyone have a couple of the old Walthers working couplers they could sell to me? They look like a cast square [rectangular] shank with a hook on the end and a brass restraining strip making it look like a crude knuckle coupler. They seem to be modeled after the old Miller hook couplers of the full sized RR's I'd like to pattern some very vintage working model couplers after them using brass bar stock and having a pair of the now-ancient Walthers couplers would be a nice point to start from. Even incomplete couplers would be helpful as long as the hook end is intact, with or without the metal strip. thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18122	From: Larry	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: no economic problems since i started it!!

Don: I have had similar issues with AT&T. Open a Yahoo or GMail account and use it for the Yahoo Groups. Go to your Groups and change your mail settings to the new e-mail address and the spam will no longer get through from your old address. Always get in the habit of deleting e-mail addresses in your replies (just as I have done below) and use BCC (blind carbon copy) to address your sends. The addresses will not be available to the spammers that way as you can see above. Larry Miller III From: Don Dellmann  To:  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Re: no economic problems since i started it!! I've been trying to stop this.  The trojan has been removed from my computer, but AT&T won't LET me change my passwords. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Dellmann" To:  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Re: no economic problems since i started it!! ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18123	From: jbark76	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: Scale-Craft Reefer Doors

I am the one interested in the trucks. I don't need the doors in particular, however I have considered casting some parts also. Perhaps I will try a different email off list. Jeff Barker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18124	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: ...motor haul.

The Pittmanns and KTMs are easy enough to ID, I'll be posting pics from time to time for IDing the more difficult ones... http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_9352-950.jpg This represents about half of the lot. Needless to say I'm looking forward to a long winter of cleaning, oiling and bench-testing...most of them already run.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18125	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers

Mike, I have some old couplers that may be what your looking for,contact me off group and I'll send you pictures,I can part with a couple if its what you need.          Alan From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] ancient Walthers couplers   Does anyone have a couple of the old Walthers working couplers they could sell to me? They look like a cast square [rectangular] shank with a hook on the end and a brass restraining strip making it look like a crude knuckle coupler. They seem to be modeled after the old Miller hook couplers of the full sized RR's I'd like to pattern some very vintage working model couplers after them using brass bar stock and having a pair of the now-ancient Walthers couplers would be a nice point to start from. Even incomplete couplers would be helpful as long as the hook end is intact, with or without the metal strip. thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18126	From: cwrailman	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers

Mike, Any chance of posting a picture of those couplers?  I have some old stuff I got in a collection years ago and may have one or more. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: > > Mike, I have some old couplers that may be what your looking for,contact me off group and I'll send you pictures,I can part with a couple if its what you need. >          Alan > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] ancient Walthers couplers > > >   > Does anyone have a couple of the old Walthers working couplers they could sell to me? > > They look like a cast square [rectangular] shank with a hook on the end and a brass restraining strip making it look like a crude knuckle coupler. They seem to be modeled after the old Miller hook couplers of the full sized RR's > > I'd like to pattern some very vintage working model couplers after them using brass bar stock and having a pair of the now-ancient Walthers couplers would be a nice point to start from. > > Even incomplete couplers would be helpful as long as the hook end is intact, with or without the metal strip. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18127	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers

I can't find a Walthers image just now. But they look a lot like a solid cross section version of this picture-attached real Miller Hook. [ This coupler is on a Thunder Lake RR 3-foot gauge passenger car and is made hollow to allow it to couple to the rest of the RR's link and pin couplers... which was the more standard coupler of that era ]  Mike Bauers On Jan 14, 2012, at 3:47 PM, cwrailman wrote: Mike, Any chance of posting a picture of those couplers?  I have some old stuff I got in a collection years ago and may have one or more.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18128	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers

I just sent an image from my hard drive. Here is a link to more images, some diagrams, and the history of these real couplers. http://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/dictionary/millerhook.htm Mike Bauers On Jan 14, 2012, at 3:47 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > Mike, > > Any chance of posting a picture of those couplers? I have some old stuff I got in a collection years ago and may have one or more. > > Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18129	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Varney pre war printed Pullmans

Attachments : IMG_7564.JPG I thought I'd send a picture of another passenger type Varney put out. I know Ray F W will know about for sure and maybe others but figured there would be some that never saw this Verney product. These Pullman cars were made in 1938 using wood for body abs underneath detail. They were scale 64" and the sides were heavy celluloid. Body color and lettering were printed directly on the sides. There were 15 cars each with a different name that was painted in gold leaf, There were 6 cars in both Tuscan red and 6 cars Brunswick green that you could get with the same name on either color. The other three with name were only sold in Brunswick Green. I don't have all the cars but always looking. You will see the top car in Tuscan Red with Pullman on top and the car name Concord. This car does not have the right trucks. However the Brunswick Green Pullman with the name Ranger has the right trucks. Hopefully you can see on this car the wrong type of glue was used to put the sides on and it melted the celluloid sides in many places. One car has a rounded roof and the other clerestory. I have no information if the all Tuscan had the round roof and the Brunswick green clerestory , or both roofs came with all cars, or i was it the builders choice. Ray F W , maybe you know that answer. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18130	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers

Go to the group page in the "files" section, there's a file down near the end from Roger A., "Wlthr auto.jpg" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ancient Walthers couplers Mike, Any chance of posting a picture of those couplers? I have some old stuff I got in a collection years ago and may have one or more. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> Facebook: CWRailman <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: > > Mike, I have some old couplers that may be what your looking for,contact me off group and I'll send you pictures,I can part with a couple if its what you need. > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Alan > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] ancient Walthers couplers > > > Â > Does anyone have a couple of the old Walthers working couplers they could sell to me? > > They look like a cast square [rectangular] shank with a hook on the end and a brass restraining strip making it look like a crude knuckle coupler. They seem to be modeled after the old Miller hook couplers of the full sized RR's > > I'd like to pattern some very vintage working model couplers after them using brass bar stock and having a pair of the now-ancient Walthers couplers would be a nice point to start from. > > Even incomplete couplers would be helpful as long as the hook end is intact, with or without the metal strip. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: ancient Walthers couplers

That might be them. I'm sorry to say the scan is so tiny that it is unviewable. Darn......... Mike Bauers On Jan 14, 2012, at 6:16 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Go to the group page in the "files" section, there's a file down near the > end from Roger A., "Wlthr auto.jpg" > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18132	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans [1 Attachment]

FWIW, the only example I have of these a tuscan "Ranger" with a round roof. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 6:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney pre war printed Pullmans [1 Attachment] > > I thought I'd send a picture of another passenger type Varney put > out. I know Ray F W will know about for sure and maybe others but > figured there would be some that never saw this Verney product. > > > > These Pullman cars were made in 1938 using wood for body abs > underneath detail. They were scale 64" and the sides were heavy > celluloid. Body color and lettering were printed directly on the sides. > There were 15 cars each > with a different name that was painted in gold leaf, There were 6 cars > in both Tuscan red and 6 cars Brunswick green that you could get with > the same name on either color. The other three with name were only sold > in Brunswick Green. > > I don't have all the cars but always looking. You will see the top > car in Tuscan Red with Pullman on top and the car name Concord. This car > does not have the right trucks. However the Brunswick Green Pullman with > the name Ranger has the right trucks. Hopefully you can see on this car > the wrong type of glue was used to put the sides on and it melted the > celluloid sides in many places. > > One car has a rounded roof and the other clerestory. I have no > information if the all Tuscan had the round roof and the Brunswick green > clerestory , or both roofs came with all cars, or i was it the builders > choice. Ray F W , maybe you know that answer. > > Jim H > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18133	From: erieberk	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans

Hello Jim, and other, Great question, and one well worth clarifying. While I can offer you an answer to the best of all that I'm familiar with on this subject -- including Varney, Spanagel, MR, etc. -- it may not necessarily be definitive only as there is nothing explicitly expressed by any of these sources. While I have a number of these cars myself in my collection, both in red and in green, I don't have all of these cars myself. Still, all of the cars of this design that I do have, have the rounded (Arched) roof, including two ("Sitting Bull" and "Rancho Grande") of the cars that were produced only in green. Of course this doesn't mean everything as we still don't know by this whether the clorestory roof cars that you have came only with specifically colored cars or not (or whether they even came with any of these cars at all), yet this is meant to demonstrate only what I've seen as being produced. As for the wrong trucks on your Concord Pullman car, we can understand that the original modeler(s) may have switched them at some point in timem, so I see this as a non-issue. Now, getting back to the main discussion at hand, all of the pre-War Varney catalogs that I have (from 1938 through 1941) show photos of these cars being offered with rounded roofs and the exploded view of the car again with the round roof. There is nothing mentioned that there is an option as to the roof design that can be bought. Spanagel states (on page 63) in his Guide that; "Some catalog illustrations and magazine advertisements showed these cars with an arched roof design, and Varney listed this part as being available." What I see is not just "Some" catalogs and ads showing these cars with rounded roofs, but EVERY (pre-War) Varney catalog and MR ad showing only rounded roofs. Just as Spanagel mentions, Varney's 1939 catalog shows the various roof designs available that year -- a Standard Freight roof and a rounded passenger car roof ("air conditioned type") -- so we know that the roof on the cars we're discussing weren't even available separately that year. Spanagel goes on to say; The arch (rounded) design was typical of the prototype equipment with a more modern design." More modern or not, we know that Varney offered at least this "modern" arch roof with his pre-War cars as illustrated in his catalogs, even though the chlorestory roof is not shown -- and I don't think it was an oversight. "Varney's 1938 catalog did not offer any roofs separately, so we can't go by that -- BUT, both the 1940 and the 1941 Varney catalogs offered two freight roofs (Standard Freight and new Round Top Freight) and two passenger roofs (the previously offered rounded Passenger Roof [air-conditioned type] and the new Streamline Passenger Roof -- for use with these very cars). There are NO clorestory roofs offered in the Car Mouldings section of any pre-War Varney catalogs, and my take on this is that I don't believe any pre-War passenger cars came with chlorestory roofs, including the ones we're talking about. The first mention of clorestory roofs in any Varney catalog is seen in his first post-War catalog on page 47, where he lists and illustrates part number 638 Pass. Car Roof--Monitor (clorestory) Type. 2 Ft. Lengths, Foot . . . .20. I believe, by this, that Varney never had Monitor (clorestory) roofs until his post-War production. In this same (and later) post-War catalog(s), Varney lists and illustrates two (PA-30 and PA-40) sixty foot Monitor roof passenger cars andd also shows an exploded view of these cars with this new roof. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > I thought I'd send a picture of another passenger type Varney put > out. I know Ray F W will know about for sure and maybe others but > figured there would be some that never saw this Verney product. > > > > These Pullman cars were made in 1938 using wood for body abs > underneath detail. They were scale 64" and the sides were heavy > celluloid. Body color and lettering were printed directly on the sides. > There were 15 cars each > with a different name that was painted in gold leaf, There were 6 cars > in both Tuscan red and 6 cars Brunswick green that you could get with > the same name on either color. The other three with name were only sold > in Brunswick Green. > > I don't have all the cars but always looking. You will see the top > car in Tuscan Red with Pullman on top and the car name Concord. This car > does not have the right trucks. However the Brunswick Green Pullman with > the name Ranger has the right trucks. Hopefully you can see on this car > the wrong type of glue was used to put the sides on and it melted the > celluloid sides in many places. > > One car has a rounded roof and the other clerestory. I have no > information if the all Tuscan had the round roof and the Brunswick green > clerestory , or both roofs came with all cars, or i was it the builders > choice. Ray F W , maybe you know that answer. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18134	From: Jay	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans

Hello Ray F.W., Jim H. and All, While I do not have any of the pre-war Varney Pullmans, a point mentioned struck home, to me one of the perils I have experienced in dating a model using manufacturer's catalog and ad photos. Many of the leading manufacturers signifigantly updated their models through the years, yet continued using the earlier photos, sometimes for years. Most times the copy was updated, though. M. Dale Newton of Red Ball, Wm K. Walthers and Varney were "guilty" of this, perhaps inadvertantly limiting their own sales as well. Sometimes manufacturers also used incomplete pilot models for their photos as well, and never got around to revising a photo of the complete production kit. Varney, though was certainly one manufacturer who was constantly updating his ad copy though. I do not have all the early years of MR in my "analog" library, so for those of you who already have the digital MR, it might prove interesting to do a monthly scan of Varney ads from 1938 through the early postwar years to see when there might have been first mention of the additional availability of Pullman monitor roof stock. Those early tiny MR Trade Topics papagraphs also frequently noted manufacturer changes and might be scanned too. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Hello Jim, and other, > > Great question, and one well worth clarifying. While I can offer you an answer to the best of all that I'm familiar with on this subject -- including Varney, Spanagel, MR, etc. -- it may not necessarily be definitive only as there is nothing explicitly expressed by any of these sources. While I have a number of these cars myself in my collection, both in red and in green, I don't have all of these cars myself. Still, all of the cars of this design that I do have, have the rounded (Arched) roof, including two ("Sitting Bull" and "Rancho Grande") of the cars that were produced only in green. Of course this doesn't mean everything as we still don't know by this whether the clorestory roof cars that you have came only with specifically colored cars or not (or whether they even came with any of these cars at all), yet this is meant to demonstrate only what I've seen as being produced. As for the wrong trucks on your Concord Pullman car, we can understand that the original modeler(s) may have switched them at some point in timem, so I see this as a non-issue. > > Now, getting back to the main discussion at hand, all of the pre-War Varney catalogs that I have (from 1938 through 1941) show photos of these cars being offered with rounded roofs and the exploded view of the car again with the round roof. There is nothing mentioned that there is an option as to the roof design that can be bought. Spanagel states (on page 63) in his Guide that; "Some catalog illustrations and magazine advertisements showed these cars with an arched roof design, and Varney listed this part as being available." What I see is not just "Some" catalogs and ads showing these cars with rounded roofs, but EVERY (pre-War) Varney catalog and MR ad showing only rounded roofs. Just as Spanagel mentions, Varney's 1939 catalog shows the various roof designs available that year -- a Standard Freight roof and a rounded passenger car roof ("air conditioned type") -- so we know that the roof on the cars we're discussing weren't even available separately that year. > > Spanagel goes on to say; The arch (rounded) design was typical of the prototype equipment with a more modern design." More modern or not, we know that Varney offered at least this "modern" arch roof with his pre-War cars as illustrated in his catalogs, even though the chlorestory roof is not shown -- and I don't think it was an oversight. "Varney's 1938 catalog did not offer any roofs separately, so we can't go by that -- BUT, both the 1940 and the 1941 Varney catalogs offered two freight roofs (Standard Freight and new Round Top Freight) and two passenger roofs (the previously offered rounded Passenger Roof [air-conditioned type] and the new Streamline Passenger Roof -- for use with these very cars). There are NO clorestory roofs offered in the Car Mouldings section of any pre-War Varney catalogs, and my take on this is that I don't believe any pre-War passenger cars came with chlorestory roofs, including the ones we're talking about. > > The first mention of clorestory roofs in any Varney catalog is seen in his first post-War catalog on page 47, where he lists and illustrates part number 638 Pass. Car Roof--Monitor (clorestory) Type. 2 Ft. Lengths, Foot . . . .20. I believe, by this, that Varney never had Monitor (clorestory) roofs until his post-War production. In this same (and later) post-War catalog(s), Varney lists and illustrates two (PA-30 and PA-40) sixty foot Monitor roof passenger cars andd also shows an exploded view of these cars with this new roof. > > Ray F. W. > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought I'd send a picture of another passenger type Varney put > > out. I know Ray F W will know about for sure and maybe others but > > figured there would be some that never saw this Verney product. > > > > > > > > These Pullman cars were made in 1938 using wood for body abs > > underneath detail. They were scale 64" and the sides were heavy > > celluloid. Body color and lettering were printed directly on the sides. > > There were 15 cars each > > with a different name that was painted in gold leaf, There were 6 cars > > in both Tuscan red and 6 cars Brunswick green that you could get with > > the same name on either color. The other three with name were only sold > > in Brunswick Green. > > > > I don't have all the cars but always looking. You will see the top > > car in Tuscan Red with Pullman on top and the car name Concord. This car > > does not have the right trucks. However the Brunswick Green Pullman with > > the name Ranger has the right trucks. Hopefully you can see on this car > > the wrong type of glue was used to put the sides on and it melted the > > celluloid sides in many places. > > > > One car has a rounded roof and the other clerestory. I have no > > information if the all Tuscan had the round roof and the Brunswick green > > clerestory , or both roofs came with all cars, or i was it the builders > > choice. Ray F W , maybe you know that answer. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18135	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney pre war printed Pullmans

Hi Ray F W,      It's extremely possible that someone along the way changed the rounded roof to the monitor roof. Doesn't even mean it's a Varney roof. I figured if anyone knew the answer it would be you. I don't have all those catalogs , to draw from. I have Spanagel's book and an example in front of me ( which was probable modified  ). Thanks for the info.                                                                                              Jim H On 1/15/2012 10:49 AM, erieberk wrote:   Hello Jim, and other, Great question, and one well worth clarifying. While I can offer you an answer to the best of all that I'm familiar with on this subject -- including Varney, Spanagel, MR, etc. -- it may not necessarily be definitive only as there is nothing explicitly expressed by any of these sources. While I have a number of these cars myself in my collection, both in red and in green, I don't have all of these cars myself. Still, all of the cars of this design that I do have, have the rounded (Arched) roof, including two ("Sitting Bull" and "Rancho Grande") of the cars that were produced only in green. Of course this doesn't mean everything as we still don't know by this whether the clorestory roof cars that you have came only with specifically colored cars or not (or whether they even came with any of these cars at all), yet this is meant to demonstrate only what I've seen as being produced. As for the wrong trucks on your Concord Pullman car, we can understand that the original modeler(s) may have switched them at some point in timem, so I see this as a non-issue. Now, getting back to the main discussion at hand, all of the pre-War Varney catalogs that I have (from 1938 through 1941) show photos of these cars being offered with rounded roofs and the exploded view of the car again with the round roof. There is nothing mentioned that there is an option as to the roof design that can be bought. Spanagel states (on page 63) in his Guide that; "Some catalog illustrations and magazine advertisements showed these cars with an arched roof design, and Varney listed this part as being available." What I see is not just "Some" catalogs and ads showing these cars with rounded roofs, but EVERY (pre-War) Varney catalog and MR ad showing only rounded roofs. Just as Spanagel mentions, Varney's 1939 catalog shows the various roof designs available that year -- a Standard Freight roof and a rounded passenger car roof ("air conditioned type") -- so we know that the roof on the cars we're discussing weren't even available separately that year. Spanagel goes on to say; The arch (rounded) design was typical of the prototype equipment with a more modern design." More modern or not, we know that Varney offered at least this "modern" arch roof with his pre-War cars as illustrated in his catalogs, even though the chlorestory roof is not shown -- and I don't think it was an oversight. "Varney's 1938 catalog did not offer any roofs separately, so we can't go by that -- BUT, both the 1940 and the 1941 Varney catalogs offered two freight roofs (Standard Freight and new Round Top Freight) and two passenger roofs (the previously offered rounded Passenger Roof [air-conditioned type] and the new Streamline Passenger Roof -- for use with these very cars). There are NO clorestory roofs offered in the Car Mouldings section of any pre-War Varney catalogs, and my take on this is that I don't believe any pre-War passenger cars came with chlorestory roofs, including the ones we're talking about. The first mention of clorestory roofs in any Varney catalog is seen in his first post-War catalog on page 47, where he lists and illustrates part number 638 Pass. Car Roof--Monitor (clorestory) Type. 2 Ft. Lengths, Foot . . . .20. I believe, by this, that Varney never had Monitor (clorestory) roofs until his post-War production. In this same (and later) post-War catalog(s), Varney lists and illustrates two (PA-30 and PA-40) sixty foot Monitor roof passenger cars andd also shows an exploded view of these cars with this new roof. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > I thought I'd send a picture of another passenger type Varney put > out. I know Ray F W will know about for sure and maybe others but > figured there would be some that never saw this Verney product. > > > > These Pullman cars were made in 1938 using wood for body abs > underneath detail. They were scale 64" and the sides were heavy > celluloid. Body color and lettering were printed directly on the sides. > There were 15 cars each > with a different name that was painted in gold leaf, There were 6 cars > in both Tuscan red and 6 cars Brunswick green that you could get with > the same name on either color. The other three with name were only sold > in Brunswick Green. > > I don't have all the cars but always looking. You will see the top > car in Tuscan Red with Pullman on top and the car name Concord. This car > does not have the right trucks. However the Brunswick Green Pullman with > the name Ranger has the right trucks. Hopefully you can see on this car > the wrong type of glue was used to put the sides on and it melted the > celluloid sides in many places. > > One car has a rounded roof and the other clerestory. I have no > information if the all Tuscan had the round roof and the Brunswick green > clerestory , or both roofs came with all cars, or i was it the builders > choice. Ray F W , maybe you know that answer. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18136	From: Jay	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & celluloid pass. cars

Hi Jim H., A very attractive passenger consist! I had never realized how nice those early celluloid sided Varney streamline passenger cars looked until I saw a large lot of sets of pre-war sides in each color sold on eBay several years ago. I was hopelessly outbid, but hope someone here got them at least as a reference collection, if not to build (with perhaps Northeasten wood stock?). My only celluloid-sided Varney streamliner is a neatly assembled post-war tu-tone gray Pullman PA-7 "Rio Ojinaga" assembled circa 1948 when Varney, lacking appropriate passenger trucks at that brief time, advised customers to substitute their dummy EMD F-3 trucks! Spanagel gave the opinion in the Varney guide that few modelers actually followed that suggestion, but that was the reason I was able to buy it from a train-show vendor for $3.00! When he looked at them, the seller laughed and said "good luck in trying to find the original trucks!" I just smiled as I alreday had the book and 1948 Varney catalog and knew that the original modeler was simply following Varney's instructions. I'm looking forward to seeing your completed "B&O Royal Blue" consist, Jim. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Varney wood & celluloid pass. cars > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 15:57:30 -0500 > From: > To: > > > > I'm finally making some head way on my pre war set of Varney ( > B&O colors ) wood and celluloid passenger car set minus the Pullman > Atlantis. I have 6 car bodies complete and ready to seal. One car has to > be finished. It is the top car that is upside down showing it needs to > be sanded, Boxes and Tanks added and if you look close at the wheel > wells you will noticed the putty build up as the cut outs for the wheels > were poorly done on all cars and I had to try to match all up, I added > new wood frame diaphragms where needed,and it took a lot of time sanding > the bodies and sanding roofs to try to get a good paint job on the cars. > > Luckily I have the parts to complete the 7 cars : 14 Varney > wheel sets from that time, all 14 of the celluloid sides, the set of > plans to show placement of boxes and tanks, all 7 bodies complete and 14 > of the large loop couplers with all the parts. It will still take a > while to paint and fully assemble adding some handrails and ladders. > Still it's worth it to add to my vintage collection. Fills in another > space. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18137	From: Jay	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Hi Harry B., I like those card-sided building kits/assembled models and have several of all types by Ideal, Megow, Capella and the later Ayres and Suydam. Carstens published some nice ones, (some others, to be kind, very basic) on his mid-1950's back covers and in the later HO Cut-Out City books. One reason I enjoy them is that all of those now vintage model were based on current prototypes that existed all around the kit designer and manufacturers. To me, there is nothing better than a vintage barrel roofed Ideal "Eat Quick" diner on a layout with vintage rolling stock today. In fact, for those of you with the MR back issues on DVD, notice how almost every layout featured has an Ideal "Eat Quick" diner somewhere in town or along the tracks! Many of today's model structure manufacturers tend to over-romanticize structures of the past like diners, so today's "mega-bux" diner model becomes more of a "Happy Days" or "Rosie" caricature of the simple eatery for workers and hang out for locals that existed next to the tracks in the 1930's through the early 1960's. Your ranch house looks very familiar and will come up with an ID in the next couple of days, if not sooner! W.Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > all of them together: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > Harry >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18138	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Talking of card-sided buildings I have a number of new old stock wartime (I believe) H0-scale Megaw cardboard cut-out kits that I acquired in a job lot.   All the following are for disposal. They are complete (as far as I know) but the red cardboard boxes boxes are a bit squashed. The glue packs included are probably no longer usable. The freight cars contain stripwood parts and brass ladders where appropriate but no trucks, wheels or couplers. Was there a wartime ban in the USA on using metal for toys and models? There was here in the UK.   P-15 Interlocking Tower Q22 B&O Hopper Car Q29 Virginian Hopper Car Q31 Nickel Plate Hopper Car Q32 Pennsylvania Hopper Car   I also have a load of late 1930s freight cars made up from kits and a pre-war Roundhouse 0-6-0 that needs a fair bit of restoration. Contact me off-list if interested.   Andy Emmerson.   From: Jay Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:15 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My latest acquisitions     Hi Harry B., I like those card-sided building kits/assembled models and have several of all types by Ideal, Megow, Capella and the later Ayres and Suydam. Carstens published some nice ones, (some others, to be kind, very basic) on his mid-1950's back covers and in the later HO Cut-Out City books. One reason I enjoy them is that all of those now vintage model were based on current prototypes that existed all around the kit designer and manufacturers. To me, there is nothing better than a vintage barrel roofed Ideal "Eat Quick" diner on a layout with vintage rolling stock today. In fact, for those of you with the MR back issues on DVD, notice how almost every layout featured has an Ideal "Eat Quick" diner somewhere in town or along the tracks! Many of today's model structure manufacturers tend to over-romanticize structures of the past like diners, so today's "mega-bux" diner model becomes more of a "Happy Days" or "Rosie" caricature of the simple eatery for workers and hang out for locals that existed next to the tracks in the 1930's through the early 1960's. Your ranch house looks very familiar and will come up with an ID in the next couple of days, if not sooner! W.Jay W. --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > all of them together: > href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > Harry >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18139	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Varney (?) 2-8-8-4

FYI Dan's Train Depot has listed this locomotive on eBay, "380402230653" Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18140	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: My latest acquisitions

Thanks, Jay, that would be great. I once had one of the cut-out books, but I don't now. I've considered scanning the back covers of RMC and then printing them out on thicker stock, but I haven't gotten past the stage of considering the project. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Harry B., > > I like those card-sided building kits/assembled models and have several of all types by Ideal, Megow, Capella and the later Ayres and Suydam. Carstens published some nice ones, (some others, to be kind, very basic) on his mid-1950's back covers and in the later HO Cut-Out City books. > > One reason I enjoy them is that all of those now vintage model were based on current prototypes that existed all around the kit designer and manufacturers. To me, there is nothing better than a vintage barrel roofed Ideal "Eat Quick" diner on a layout with vintage rolling stock today. In fact, for those of you with the MR back issues on DVD, notice how almost every layout featured has an Ideal "Eat Quick" diner somewhere in town or along the tracks! > > Many of today's model structure manufacturers tend to over-romanticize structures of the past like diners, so today's "mega-bux" diner model becomes more of a "Happy Days" or "Rosie" caricature of the simple eatery for workers and hang out for locals that existed next to the tracks in the 1930's through the early 1960's. > > Your ranch house looks very familiar and will come up with an ID in the next couple of days, if not sooner! > > W.Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> wrote: > > > > I picked up several vintage HO items, including a cardboard building > > whose construction can be dated to 1944 thanks to an inscription, at a > > train show this past Sunday. I don't know the makers of most of the > > items, however, and I'd be happy to learn from others. I've posted > > photos in my Flickr account; here's a link to the first one, which shows > > all of them together: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/ > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygbutler/6675734689/> > > > > Harry > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18141	From: RalphB	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part

Several months ago I acquired a collection of Hobbytown of Boston parts and I can't identify one of them. I've looked on the HOSeeker website, but couldn't find anything. All the drawings I can find show a Pittman DC-71 motor in the metal RS-3, but I can't find any drawing that shows the frame as Part No. 1376-1. Mounted on the frame, just above the fuel fill, inside the hood, is a bearing block. It's right where a DC-71 would go, so this was apparently designed to take a different motor. Does anyone have a diagram that includes this particular frame, and can you tell me what the part number is and its price? Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18142	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part

Try contacting Howard at Bear Locomotive. http://home.comcast.net/~bearbon/site/?/blog/  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: Alpvalsys@... Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:13:44 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Need help IDing a Hobbytown part   Several months ago I acquired a collection of Hobbytown of Boston parts and I can't identify one of them. I've looked on the HOSeeker website, but couldn't find anything. All the drawings I can find show a Pittman DC-71 motor in the metal RS-3, but I can't find any drawing that shows the frame as Part No. 1376-1. Mounted on the frame, just above the fuel fill, inside the hood, is a bearing block. It's right where a DC-71 would go, so this was apparently designed to take a different motor. Does anyone have a diagram that includes this particular frame, and can you tell me what the part number is and its price? Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18143	From: Alan	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: missing instructions

I recently got a quality craft P2 wood kit of a 85'tri-level auto car but it is missing the instruction sheet,the 99 cents e-bay price was right,would anybody happen to have instructions that I could get a copy or scan of. Thank you, Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18144	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: missing instructions

the NMRA has a collection of kit instructions.  it's hit and miss as to what they have, but worth a try.   geo From: Alan <albyrno@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] missing instructions   I recently got a quality craft P2 wood kit of a 85'tri-level auto car but it is missing the instruction sheet,the 99 cents e-bay price was right,would anybody happen to have instructions that I could get a copy or scan of. Thank you, Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18145	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: missing instructions

Alan, I have a P2 in my collection with the instructions. Send me your address and I'll send you a copy. Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18146	From: RalphB	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris wrote: > > Try contacting Howard at Bear Locomotive. --------------------- I've had quite a bit of correspondence with Howard, and I have to contact him again on another item. I'll see if he can help. Thanks. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18147	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Attachments : 001.JPG      I got this picture from a friend I consider one of the most knowledgeable Penn Line collectors from  his collection.  I sent it to see if any members have comments about either this picture I'm sending or the one he describes on eBay below. I had seen the one on eBay he talks about.  I had dismissed it as a repaint with decals.   The black lettering in the catalog could just be wrong be wrong but either way it wouldn't be a decal like the one on eBay.  Any thoughts ?                                                                                                      Jim H -------- Original Message -------- Subject: penn line us navy midget Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:32:40 -0500 From: To: Hi jim    There was a penn line us navy midget on ebay ( 300650176831) I told this guy it was a repaint because it has the black lettering and the color red is not the same as mine which I say is original. I have two of these in us navy markings and both look the same. The lettering on mine in white was applied by using a paint mask the one on ebay in black looks like some sort of decal. I must admit that the 62 penn line catalog shows the lettering in black but I do think it was the people who made up the catalog to make it in black lettering . I made the comment to the seller that this was a repaint but he gives a story about getting it off a book keeper that worked for penn line at that time . I personally know the book keeper he lives in Virginia just now but I’ll get his address and we will find out about this engine . I might be wrong but I never/ ever/ seen one in black letters. Can you or any other of these guys that you know shed some light on this subject. Regards bill

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18148	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim, The go to guy on this is probably Lew English at Bowser. Since he knew everyone at Penn Line and now owns the entire line. Penn Line was basically a kit company. Original items from the factory would have been the work of individuals at the company - subject to variations. As a teen at the time I recall more variations than consistancys in the Penn Line RTR products. Both of you could be correct! In truth, I don't remember the paint on my US Navy Midget. It was on sale at Lloyds Hobby Shop in Baltimore about 1954 or 55 and I repainted it with a brush, Roundhouse paints and Champ decals almost immediately. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/19/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > I got this picture from a friend I consider one of the most > knowledgeable Penn Line collectors from his collection. I sent it to > see if any members have comments about either this picture I'm sending > or the one he describes on eBay below. I had seen the one on eBay he > talks about. I had dismissed it as a repaint with decals. The black > lettering in the catalog could just be wrong be wrong but either way it > wouldn't be a decal like the one on eBay. Any thoughts ? > > > Jim H > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: penn line us navy midget > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:32:40 -0500 > From: > To: > > > > Hi jim > > There was a penn line us navy midget on ebay ( 300650176831) I told > this guy it was a repaint because it has the black lettering and the > color red is not the same as mine which I say is original. I have two of > these in us navy markings and both look the same. The lettering on mine > in white was applied by using a paint mask the one on ebay in black > looks like some sort of decal. I must admit that the 62 penn line > catalog shows the lettering in black but I do think it was the people > who made up the catalog to make it in black lettering . I made the > comment to the seller that this was a repaint but he gives a story about > getting it off a book keeper that worked for penn line at that time . I > personally know the book keeper he lives in Virginia just now but I'll > get his address and we will find out about this engine . I might be > wrong but I never/ ever/ seen one in black letters. Can you or any other > of these guys that you know shed some light on this subject. Regards bill > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18149	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

I still have mine, repowered with a Sagami motor, flywheel and gearbox and stripped and repainted.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18150	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Jake,     Thanks for your response. First my friend Bill  from Boyertown knew the 3 owners of Penn Line personally. People at times thought he was a 4th owner of Penn Line. He was there when the first single stage mold ( hinged at the bottom and with a twist lock on top) was used to pour the Midget diesel one at a time They were poured in the kitchen of the one owner and the lead was melted on the kitchen stove and the neighbors got mad about the smell. He was there when the huge + costly new die to make the GG-1 bodies was installed in the one plant. He was given the first GG-1 set that also contained the trailer on the flatcar. When PL was sold at auction he was given the metal sign that hung outside. So he had a lot of intimant knowledge of PL and it's owners. I state this only to show how this man was able to attain PL history and knowledge and put together one of the largest Penn Line collections.    He would tell me about the teenagers that worked after school and when no one was watching change numbers on passenger cars and maybe other things to.  But they were NEVER decals other then stickers used by Flieschmann.  They only used a paint mask to letter and number items. Penn Line, although selling kits, was not basically a kit company. They had many factory painted sets that started with Flieschmann sets, Athearn F-7 bodies till they developed their own F-7 bodies. ( check the steps on the Athearn F-7 and the Penn Line  F-7 and you'll see one of the biggest differences ). They painted the sets they sold which included both freight and passenger cars plus individual pieces. They were not just basically a kit company     As for Lew English he is over 90 and his son says he remembers poorly Penn Line even when he bought SOME of it at auction. Lew did buy the Penn Line steam products. There were two other buyers at that auction . Sol Kramer who had previously bought out Varney bought the  PL diesels, freight + passenger cars and later he become Lifelike and sold both Varney and Penn Line leftovers under that name. The third buyerw as Vince Waterman of Trackside Specialties and bought mostly parts, boxes , promo pictures and other loose end.     I'm not going to argue whose right but based a lot on Bill's knowledge and my little bit of knowledge believe it's a decaled repaint but he is getting a nice price for it           Buyer Beware..                                                          Jim H    On 1/19/2012 4:41 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Hi Jim, The go to guy on this is probably Lew English at Bowser. Since he knew everyone at Penn Line and now owns the entire line. Penn Line was basically a kit company. Original items from the factory would have been the work of individuals at the company - subject to variations. As a teen at the time I recall more variations than consistancys in the Penn Line RTR products. Both of you could be correct! In truth, I don't remember the paint on my US Navy Midget. It was on sale at Lloyds Hobby Shop in Baltimore about 1954 or 55 and I repainted it with a brush, Roundhouse paints and Champ decals almost immediately. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/19/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > I got this picture from a friend I consider one of the most > knowledgeable Penn Line collectors from his collection. I sent it to > see if any members have comments about either this picture I'm sending > or the one he describes on eBay below. I had seen the one on eBay he > talks about. I had dismissed it as a repaint with decals. The black > lettering in the catalog could just be wrong be wrong but either way it > wouldn't be a decal like the one on eBay. Any thoughts ? > > > Jim H > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: penn line us navy midget > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:32:40 -0500 > From: > To: > > > > Hi jim > > There was a penn line us navy midget on ebay ( 300650176831) I told > this guy it was a repaint because it has the black lettering and the > color red is not the same as mine which I say is original. I have two of > these in us navy markings and both look the same. The lettering on mine > in white was applied by using a paint mask the one on ebay in black > looks like some sort of decal. I must admit that the 62 penn line > catalog shows the lettering in black but I do think it was the people > who made up the catalog to make it in black lettering . I made the > comment to the seller that this was a repaint but he gives a story about > getting it off a book keeper that worked for penn line at that time . I > personally know the book keeper he lives in Virginia just now but I'll > get his address and we will find out about this engine . I might be > wrong but I never/ ever/ seen one in black letters. Can you or any other > of these guys that you know shed some light on this subject. Regards bill > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18151	From: RalphB	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, I wrote: > > I can't find any drawing that shows the frame as Part No. 1376-1. ------------------ I think I found my answer. I was looking on the TCS (Train Control Systems) DCC website and there's a how-to describing installation of a DCC decoder in a Hobbytown RS-3. I'm looking at the photos and then it hit me. The locomotive frame is just like the one I have, but something didn't look right. The light bulb went on. The RS-3 on the TCS website is equipped with a flywheel. If you look on the HOSeeker website for the regular Hobbytown RS-3 (not the plastic body version that I'm working with) you'll note that none of the RS-3 diagrams show a flywheel, and the frame is part #76. In looking at the flywheel-equipped model on the TCS website the motor is in the radiator end of the hood, exactly opposite its position in the original version. Apparently, when Hobbytown added the flywheel to the RS-3 it had to go in the cab, and that required repositioning the motor on the other end of the frame. In order to keep some consitency in numbering, the new frame simply had '13' added in front on the original frame number, i.e. 1376 (or 1376-1) for the flywheel-equipped model to replace the non-flywheel frame 76. The pillar block I have on my frame is one of two that were needed to support the flywheel and keep it from wobbling. Now all we have to do is find someone who has the instructions for the flywheel-equipped RS-3 so he can send a copy to Larry. And why, may you ask, am I looking at DCC for a vintage Hobbytown locomotive. It's simple; I belong to a club that uses DCC. The Digitrax system we use will allow for one locomotive (single or multiple) to use straight DC, but that cuts down on our operating possibilities. Since the decoder will work on both the club layout and on my old DC-only home layout, I'll bite the bullet and install some decoders where I have to. ;-) Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18152	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

WOW, Thanks Jim! Lot of really good info from you. I really appreciate that. So much of the early history of our hobby has been lost.... I've had Midgets in both lead and Zamac over the years. I liked both castings. I sold my last one around 2006 and was pleased with the price that I got for it. I still have a couple of the Bowser issued steam kits with Penn Line boilers and one unboxed buillt up T1 that has been on myDad's layout, his brothers layout, my layout and several club layouts over the years. Still running but doesn't like reverse much now. Guess I'll have to work on it a little. I think that I have another Penn Line steamer in pieces from the 50s also. Vaguely remember that I couldn't get it to roll freely after the drive rods were assembled so it got laid to the side. I hope that it is OK with you for me to save your email. This is great info and I thank you for sharing it with me. I'm not as old a Lew but I was already a Navy vet by the time he started buying MRR molds. By the time Bowser released their first item I had already built all of the kits that he later produced. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18153	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part

Hi Ralph, I see nothing wrong with putting a DCC Decoder in a Hobbytown of Boston locomotive.  I have one with a DCC Decoder and about 3 or more to get one.  The one thing I would very strongly recommend is to put wipers on all wheels and wire them directly to the decoder black and red wires.  The electrical path from the wheels through the trucks to the frame is really not very good and the mating surfaces tend to oxidize with a non-conductive coating, especially if only run occasionally.  This is an issue with DC as well, but even more so with DCC.  I did this with my Hobbytown powered Varney NW-2 and it doesn't stall anywhere any longer, and it even has brass wheelsets. Here is a pointer to how I added the wipers. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1301531168/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1585142546/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Regard Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: Alpvalsys@... Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:02:04 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need help IDing a Hobbytown part   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, I wrote: > > I can't find any drawing that shows the frame as Part No. 1376-1. ------------------ I think I found my answer. I was looking on the TCS (Train Control Systems) DCC website and there's a how-to describing installation of a DCC decoder in a Hobbytown RS-3. I'm looking at the photos and then it hit me. The locomotive frame is just like the one I have, but something didn't look right. The light bulb went on. The RS-3 on the TCS website is equipped with a flywheel. If you look on the HOSeeker website for the regular Hobbytown RS-3 (not the plastic body version that I'm working with) you'll note that none of the RS-3 diagrams show a flywheel, and the frame is part #76. In looking at the flywheel-equipped model on the TCS website the motor is in the radiator end of the hood, exactly opposite its position in the original version. Apparently, when Hobbytown added the flywheel to the RS-3 it had to go in the cab, and that required repositioning the motor on the other end of the frame. In order to keep some consitency in numbering, the new frame simply had '13' added in front on the original frame number, i.e. 1376 (or 1376-1) for the flywheel-equipped model to replace the non-flywheel frame 76. The pillar block I have on my frame is one of two that were needed to support the flywheel and keep it from wobbling. Now all we have to do is find someone who has the instructions for the flywheel-equipped RS-3 so he can send a copy to Larry. And why, may you ask, am I looking at DCC for a vintage Hobbytown locomotive. It's simple; I belong to a club that uses DCC. The Digitrax system we use will allow for one locomotive (single or multiple) to use straight DC, but that cuts down on our operating possibilities. Since the decoder will work on both the club layout and on my old DC-only home layout, I'll bite the bullet and install some decoders where I have to. ;-) Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18154	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Jake,     Feel free to keep a copy no problem. I must tell you my motto is " never say never" but I will stick with what I know or was told to me till proven otherwise. There is a man in one of these Yahoo groups who worked for PL as a teenager and has written a Penn Line story. I have forgotten his name. Trying to recall everything with out going back to read things . I do remember this person worked in PL shipping at a time PL went to plastic bodies on the midget engine we are talking about.     Also go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Literature and search for Penn Line drawings,assembly sheets, etc. After that go to the Gallery and find where you click on Penn Line. There are a lot of Penn Line pictures there including the lead,Zamac and plastic types.                                     Jim H     On 1/20/2012 5:57 AM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   WOW, Thanks Jim! Lot of really good info from you. I really appreciate that. So much of the early history of our hobby has been lost.... I've had Midgets in both lead and Zamac over the years. I liked both castings. I sold my last one around 2006 and was pleased with the price that I got for it. I still have a couple of the Bowser issued steam kits with Penn Line boilers and one unboxed buillt up T1 that has been on myDad's layout, his brothers layout, my layout and several club layouts over the years. Still running but doesn't like reverse much now. Guess I'll have to work on it a little. I think that I have another Penn Line steamer in pieces from the 50s also. Vaguely remember that I couldn't get it to roll freely after the drive rods were assembled so it got laid to the side. I hope that it is OK with you for me to save your email. This is great info and I thank you for sharing it with me. I'm not as old a Lew but I was already a Navy vet by the time he started buying MRR molds. By the time Bowser released their first item I had already built all of the kits that he later produced. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18155	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Jake,  Must explain 1 thing I mentioned. When I said PL used no decals I should have added ON  FACTORY PAINTED ITEMS.   They did have decals in their steam engine KITS.                                                           Jim H On 1/20/2012 5:57 AM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   WOW, Thanks Jim! Lot of really good info from you. I really appreciate that. So much of the early history of our hobby has been lost.... I've had Midgets in both lead and Zamac over the years. I liked both castings. I sold my last one around 2006 and was pleased with the price that I got for it. I still have a couple of the Bowser issued steam kits with Penn Line boilers and one unboxed buillt up T1 that has been on myDad's layout, his brothers layout, my layout and several club layouts over the years. Still running but doesn't like reverse much now. Guess I'll have to work on it a little. I think that I have another Penn Line steamer in pieces from the 50s also. Vaguely remember that I couldn't get it to roll freely after the drive rods were assembled so it got laid to the side. I hope that it is OK with you for me to save your email. This is great info and I thank you for sharing it with me. I'm not as old a Lew but I was already a Navy vet by the time he started buying MRR molds. By the time Bowser released their first item I had already built all of the kits that he later produced. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18156	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Hi Jim, There was/is a brief history of Penn Line on Bowser's web site also. It may be the one that you refer to. Jake On 1/20/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jake, > > Feel free to keep a copy no problem. I must tell you my motto is " > never say never" but I will stick with what I know or was told to me > till proven otherwise. There is a man in one of these Yahoo groups who > worked for PL as a teenager and has written a Penn Line story. I have > forgotten his name. Trying to recall everything with out going back to > read things . I do remember this person worked in PL shipping at a time > PL went to plastic bodies on the midget engine we are talking about. > > Also go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Literature and search for > Penn Line drawings,assembly sheets, etc. After that go to the Gallery > and find where you click on Penn Line. There are a lot of Penn Line > pictures there including the lead,Zamac and plastic types. > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > On 1/20/2012 5:57 AM, Jacob Bechtel wrote: >> >> WOW, >> >> Thanks Jim! Lot of really good info from you. I really appreciate >> that. So much of the early history of our hobby has been lost.... >> I've had Midgets in both lead and Zamac over the years. I liked >> both castings. I sold my last one around 2006 and was pleased with >> the price that I got for it. >> I still have a couple of the Bowser issued steam kits with Penn Line >> boilers and one unboxed buillt up T1 that has been on myDad's layout, >> his brothers layout, my layout and several club layouts over the >> years. Still running but doesn't like reverse much now. Guess I'll >> have to work on it a little. I think that I have another Penn Line >> steamer in pieces from the 50s also. Vaguely remember that I couldn't >> get it to roll freely after the drive rods were assembled so it got >> laid to the side. >> I hope that it is OK with you for me to save your email. This is >> great info and I thank you for sharing it with me. I'm not as old a >> Lew but I was already a Navy vet by the time he started buying MRR >> molds. By the time Bowser released their first item I had already >> built all of the kits that he later produced. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL >> >> > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18157	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Jake,    While you are right that  Bowser has a small write up concerning PL, I am thinking of something different. I went to check it out so I'm on track. The Penn Line Story / History I am thinking about was written by Frank Dill. His grandfather "Doc Sands" ran a sporting good store where the Penn Line owners ( and my friend hung out ). It was located on Philadelphia Ave in Boyertown and is now part of the Boyertown Library.                                                                              Jim H On 1/20/2012 1:05 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Hi Jim, There was/is a brief history of Penn Line on Bowser's web site also. It may be the one that you refer to. Jake On 1/20/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jake, > > Feel free to keep a copy no problem. I must tell you my motto is " > never say never" but I will stick with what I know or was told to me > till proven otherwise. There is a man in one of these Yahoo groups who > worked for PL as a teenager and has written a Penn Line story. I have > forgotten his name. Trying to recall everything with out going back to > read things . I do remember this person worked in PL shipping at a time > PL went to plastic bodies on the midget engine we are talking about. > > Also go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Literature and search for > Penn Line drawings,assembly sheets, etc. After that go to the Gallery > and find where you click on Penn Line. There are a lot of Penn Line > pictures there including the lead,Zamac and plastic types. > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > On 1/20/2012 5:57 AM, Jacob Bechtel wrote: >> >> WOW, >> >> Thanks Jim! Lot of really good info from you. I really appreciate >> that. So much of the early history of our hobby has been lost.... >> I've had Midgets in both lead and Zamac over the years. I liked >> both castings. I sold my last one around 2006 and was pleased with >> the price that I got for it. >> I still have a couple of the Bowser issued steam kits with Penn Line >> boilers and one unboxed buillt up T1 that has been on myDad's layout, >> his brothers layout, my layout and several club layouts over the >> years. Still running but doesn't like reverse much now. Guess I'll >> have to work on it a little. I think that I have another Penn Line >> steamer in pieces from the 50s also. Vaguely remember that I couldn't >> get it to roll freely after the drive rods were assembled so it got >> laid to the side. >> I hope that it is OK with you for me to save your email. This is >> great info and I thank you for sharing it with me. I'm not as old a >> Lew but I was already a Navy vet by the time he started buying MRR >> molds. By the time Bowser released their first item I had already >> built all of the kits that he later produced. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL >> >> > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18158	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Thanks Jim, I'm an "ol phart" and the only thing bugging me right now is getting my 25 year old truck fixed in between rain showers and freeze warnings. I refuse to pay a shop $75 an hour labor when they only pay the mechanic $10 to $15 an hour. I'd rather hire the mechanic direct to work in his spare time. Since I can only get dialup here on the mountain I'll start searching for the Penn Line history whenever I can. Seems like the middle of the day is a bad time for me to get any kind of connection. I did take a quick look at the storage and it looks like I have an 0-8-0 that I built back in the 50s to go with the T1. Also have one of the last lead boiler T1 kits that Bowser made with the details and I think it is an I1 kit with basic cal scale details, plus a couple of others further down in the box. Have about 10 Cary conversions also, some "virgin", some "started", some running and some that are even painted and lettered. I doubt with my age and health issues that I will ever get anything more than a test track built and the club here is part of the city museum so not accessable most of the time. I keep telling myself that I have to get rid of most of my stuff but the truth is they are all "old friends". I have gotten som much comfort from them over the years that every time I start to sell one I get cold feet. I still like to build though so I keep plugging away. I just finished restoring a Bachmann "J" from the earliest runs and 4 Rivarossi smooth sides from the same time. I have an IHC HW Diner that I think I will build and interior to go with the 4 RR cars that I have --- and then probably sell the whole set. Even though I can run this string on 18" radius curves, with the diner it is 6 feet + long and my mantel piece is only 5 1/2 feet long. Does anyone ever offer to sell their models on the "vintage" site? I thought that I had listed a Pug for sale on one of the sites - thought it was the "vintage" site. I may have to resort to eBay to sell off my things since there is only one MRR swap meet a year withing 75 miles of my home and my Doc doesn't want me to leave town without a "watch-dog". Please send me the location of that PL history if you relocate it. I am really interested. The Navy interrupted my modeling in the mid 50s and by the time I got back to it many of the pioneer companies were already gone. The men in my family had been avid builders but with the decline of American kit makers, relocation of family members and demands of family and work in the 60s and 70s our building sort of "petered out". I'm the last of my generation now and even though I know that I will probably never get to build them I still hang onto the kits that I have. Right now I am working with hand files, drills and brass stock to try to make duplicates of some drive rods and valve gearing that has simply worn out. I know - I talk a lot. Sorry to take so much of your time. But please remember me when you relocate the PL history. Jake Bechtel atop Lookout Mountain Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18159	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

I learned many decades ago to work on my own truck. 25-years-old? PIKER! With 9 inches locally of snow here, the wife needs to go to work, the one vehicle that will keep going in the snow is my 1950 Ford F-1, studded snows on the back, seven concrete pier blocks in the back. > I'm an "ol phart" and the only thing bugging me right now is getting > my 25 year old truck fixed in between rain showers and freeze > warnings. I refuse to pay a shop $75 an hour labor when they only pay > the mechanic $10 to $15 an hour. I'd rather hire the mechanic direct > to work in his spare time. > Jake Bechtel > atop Lookout Mountain > Gadsden, AL >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18160	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Sales (was vintageHO Fwd: penn line us navy midget)

Jake; Posting of "for sale" items are allowed here, as long as they're vintage HO within the scope of this group, and non-commercial. If anyone has a lot to sell, I prefer they give a general description and ask people to contact them off list. If it's only a few items listing them with prices or whatever is fine. I just don't want anyone to abuse the privilege (like posting long lists weekly), but just use a little courtesy. Also, buyers, please contact the seller off list, and conclude the transaction privately. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fwd: penn line us navy midget > Thanks Jim, > > I'm an "ol phart" and the only thing bugging me right now is getting > my 25 year old truck fixed in between rain showers and freeze > warnings. I refuse to pay a shop $75 an hour labor when they only pay > the mechanic $10 to $15 an hour. I'd rather hire the mechanic direct > to work in his spare time. > Since I can only get dialup here on the mountain I'll start > searching for the Penn Line history whenever I can. Seems like the > middle of the day is a bad time for me to get any kind of connection. > I did take a quick look at the storage and it looks like I have an > 0-8-0 that I built back in the 50s to go with the T1. Also have one > of the last lead boiler T1 kits that Bowser made with the details and > I think it is an I1 kit with basic cal scale details, plus a couple of > others further down in the box. Have about 10 Cary conversions also, > some "virgin", some "started", some running and some that are even > painted and lettered. > I doubt with my age and health issues that I will ever get anything > more than a test track built and the club here is part of the city > museum so not accessable most of the time. I keep telling myself that > I have to get rid of most of my stuff but the truth is they are all > "old friends". I have gotten som much comfort from them over the > years that every time I start to sell one I get cold feet. > I still like to build though so I keep plugging away. I just > finished restoring a Bachmann "J" from the earliest runs and 4 > Rivarossi smooth sides from the same time. I have an IHC HW Diner > that I think I will build and interior to go with the 4 RR cars that I > have --- and then probably sell the whole set. Even though I can run > this string on 18" radius curves, with the diner it is 6 feet + long > and my mantel piece is only 5 1/2 feet long. > Does anyone ever offer to sell their models on the "vintage" site? > I thought that I had listed a Pug for sale on one of the sites - > thought it was the "vintage" site. I may have to resort to eBay to > sell off my things since there is only one MRR swap meet a year > withing 75 miles of my home and my Doc doesn't want me to leave town > without a "watch-dog". > Please send me the location of that PL history if you relocate it. > I am really interested. The Navy interrupted my modeling in the mid > 50s and by the time I got back to it many of the pioneer companies > were already gone. The men in my family had been avid builders but > with the decline of American kit makers, relocation of family members > and demands of family and work in the 60s and 70s our building sort of > "petered out". > I'm the last of my generation now and even though I know that I > will probably never get to build them I still hang onto the kits that > I have. Right now I am working with hand files, drills and brass > stock to try to make duplicates of some drive rods and valve gearing > that has simply worn out. > I know - I talk a lot. Sorry to take so much of your time. But > please remember me when you relocate the PL history. > > Jake Bechtel > atop Lookout Mountain > Gadsden, AL > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18161	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Good Golly! A 1950 F1? (6 or 8)? What was the line from my high school days - "Flatheads Forever"! Jake Bechtel On 1/20/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > I learned many decades ago to work on my own truck. 25-years-old? PIKER! > With 9 inches locally of snow here, the wife needs to go to work, the one > vehicle that will keep going in the snow is my 1950 Ford F-1, studded snows > on the back, seven concrete pier blocks in the back. > >> I'm an "ol phart" and the only thing bugging me right now is getting >> my 25 year old truck fixed in between rain showers and freeze >> warnings. I refuse to pay a shop $75 an hour labor when they only pay >> the mechanic $10 to $15 an hour. I'd rather hire the mechanic direct >> to work in his spare time. >> Jake Bechtel >> atop Lookout Mountain >> Gadsden, AL >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18162	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

8. I have three. This one had for 25 or 26 years, The 50 Tudor, 42 years. The 49 Willys with a 3/4 race Merc flathead, 38 years. > Good Golly! A 1950 F1? (6 or 8)? What was the line from my high > school days - "Flatheads Forever"! > Jake Bechtel > > > On 1/20/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I learned many decades ago to work on my own truck. 25-years-old? PIKER! > > With 9 inches locally of snow here, the wife needs to go to work, the one > > vehicle that will keep going in the snow is my 1950 Ford F-1, studded snows > > on the back, seven concrete pier blocks in the back. > > > >> I'm an "ol phart" and the only thing bugging me right now is getting > >> my 25 year old truck fixed in between rain showers and freeze > >> warnings. I refuse to pay a shop $75 an hour labor when they only pay > >> the mechanic $10 to $15 an hour. I'd rather hire the mechanic direct > >> to work in his spare time. > >> Jake Bechtel > >> atop Lookout Mountain > >> Gadsden, AL > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18163	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Not trying to one up but....'40 Tudor since 1955 and a 286 ci flatie powered race car sine about 1990... Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18164	From: John H	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Race car? Midget? Modified? What? John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, acace@... wrote: > > Not trying to one up but....'40 Tudor since 1955 and a 286 ci flatie > powered race car sine about 1990... > > Dick Waite >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18165	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

Jim and all When Penn Line was auctioned, my father got most of the parts and partially completed ready to run stuff (Bowser got all the tooling). We had boxes of the plastic shells for the later version of the Midget, none were painted however, they were all straight black. I know Penn Line was selling a lot of ready to run sets at the time, but I don't remember seeing one of these painted in US Navy, although Lionel was doing similar things in their HO line, I could see PL copying. The photo does look more like silk screen or rubber stamp than a decal however, and PL only used decals in the very early days. This is the later plastic shelled version, not the early cast metal. There are significant differences in details between the two, so this is pretty easy to spot. If it was factory painted, it would have had to have been on a plastic shelled version. I can't say for sure if PL painted this one, but the quality of the finish is about right. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18166	From: oljoe	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: penn line us navy midget

I have a copy of the "Penn Line Archives 2nd Edition" CD from a 2003 ebay auction: Assembly instructions for all Penn Line kits EXCEPT the midget??? Although the CD doesn't have the Midget I do have a copy of the D-2 instructions. A short history of Penn Line mfg. 1946-1961 Images of 50 pages of Penn Line Catalog pages I sent a copy to HOSEEKER and several other interested individuals. I have an email from one of the Penn Line people (Frank Dill) saying the CD is not copyrighted and can be copied. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18167	From: Alan	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Tyco switcher?

I need help id'ing something again.I found this switcher on e-bay #130631959932 listed as a tyco switcher,I haven't been able to find it on ho seeker or anything with the gears on side remotely resembling it,looks like a nice little project loco.It appears that it may have a pancake motor. Thanks,Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18168	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

Hi, Looks to be from their 1980s G.I. Joe set. As seen, here: http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/id55.html they made a number of "tie-in" trains, including for the A-Team as well. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 1/21/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Tyco switcher? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 3:28 PM   I need help id'ing something again.I found this switcher on e-bay #130631959932 listed as a tyco switcher,I haven't been able to find it on ho seeker or anything with the gears on side remotely resembling it,looks like a nice little project loco.It appears that it may have a pancake motor. Thanks,Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18169	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

Hi again, Looking a little closer, it could also be from the Rambo set. Both appear to use an army green body, the difference being in stickers (Yes, stickers, not decals!) that it appears were to be applied by the buyer. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 1/21/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tyco switcher? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 4:12 PM   Hi, Looks to be from their 1980s G.I. Joe set. As seen, here: http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/id55.html they made a number of "tie-in" trains, including for the A-Team as well. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 1/21/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Tyco switcher? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 3:28 PM   I need help id'ing something again.I found this switcher on e-bay #130631959932 listed as a tyco switcher,I haven't been able to find it on ho seeker or anything with the gears on side remotely resembling it,looks like a nice little project loco.It appears that it may have a pancake motor. Thanks,Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18170	From: Howard C. Taylor	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

alan , while i can`t say what set it`s from , i do know that it has a power torque motor. some are good more than enough are bad . most of mine have been good ,if kept lubricated properly. if i remember rightly ,the big gear on the side freezes up . this statement is open for correction . ive had about 6 ,and currently have 2 running ,2 chatanooga tenders in storage for future use and the rest were junk from go. i am running the shark with gg1 trucks ,and the 060 with a lead truck and a modified hobbyline prr boiler . both run good and strong.have fun if you buy it . howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18171	From: Mr Larry L. Doub	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Old School Block systems

Hey Gang, Been a while since I posted thought I would pop in and say hello, and ask something that has always made me amazed at how they did it in the Days before DCC, how do you wire up a layout to run multiple trains the old Block way? Larry L Doub

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18172	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

Here's how my layout does it: One rail insulated every six or so linear feet of track, which can be turned on and off by a toggle. This is a basic one-direction block. Now, for a block that I want to be able to run against the general flow of traffic (For example,, when I want to back the train and switch off a car on a siding), insulate both rails on that block, either end, and use a double pole, double throw switch. On my pike, up is normal running, center is off. Down is backwards against the flow via crossed wire leads. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/22/12, Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> wrote: From: Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Old School Block systems To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 22, 2012, 3:35 PM   Hey Gang, Been a while since I posted thought I would pop in and say hello, and ask something that has always made me amazed at how they did it in the Days before DCC, how do you wire up a layout to run multiple trains the old Block way? Larry L Doub

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18173	From: Mr Larry L. Doub	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

Ok thank you for the repy, I can understand that part, so, now how does one do this and controll more then train running? Larry L Doub --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Here's how my layout does it: > > One rail insulated every six or so linear feet of track, which can be turned on and off by a toggle. This is a basic one-direction block. > > Now, for a block that I want to be able to run against the general flow of traffic (For example,, when I want to back the train and switch off a car on a siding), insulate both rails on that block, either end, and use a double pole, double throw switch. On my pike, up is normal running, center is off. Down is backwards against the flow via crossed wire leads. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sun, 1/22/12, Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> wrote: > > From: Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Old School Block systems > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 22, 2012, 3:35 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hey Gang, > > Been a while since I posted thought I would pop in and say hello, and ask something that has always made me amazed at how they did it in the Days before DCC, how do you wire up a layout to run multiple trains the old Block way? > > > > Larry L Doub >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18174	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

On 1/22/2012 6:29 PM, Mr Larry L. Doub wrote: > Ok thank you for the repy, > I can understand that part, > so, now how does one do this and controll more then train running? > > Larry L Doub > Here's how I do it. Divide the layout up into blocks. I insulate both rails at each each of the block. Each siding and each spur becomes it's own block. The yard is at least one block, and the main gets divided up into some number of blocks. Each block is wired to the CENTER contacts of a double pole double throw toggle switch. One power pack ("Cab A") goes to all the down contacts of the DPDT switches. A second power pack ("Cab B") is wired to the up contacts of all the DPDT switches. Flip the block toggle down, and that block is connected to Cab A, flip it up, and the block is connected to Cab B. This gives a two cab system. One engineer can run a train on the main while the second engineer runs a peddler freight up the spurs. You can run two trains in opposite directions on a single track main. Cab A takes control of the main until a siding is reached. The train enters the siding and the other engineer (Cab B) takes control of the main and runs his train out of its siding onto the main while the other train waits on a siding. It is plenty good enough for a home layout with a single operator. For a large layout with many operators DCC has a lot of advantages. More than two cabs are possible, but for each cab you need block switches with a pole for each cab. Now a days, it's hard to find anything bigger than a double pole switch. In the old days rotary switches with many poles were available surplus, but they are hard to find now. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18175	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

On 1/22/2012 5:29 PM, Mr Larry L. Doub wrote: > Ok thank you for the reply, > I can understand that part, > so, now how does one do this and control more then train running? The NMRA web site has a how-to on electrical wiring: http://www.nmra.org/beginner/extended.html -- Rick Jones He who laughs, lasts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18176	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

The simplest way with two throttles ("Cabs"), with a double throw switch for each block that connects it to one cab or the other. Model railroader always touted "common rail" where you only split one rail, and used SPDT center off toggles. I never cared for it, because you had to insulate both rails at reversing sections anyway, and if there is a problem it's harder to find. I split both rails, which means all switches have to be double pole. For more than two cabs, there were a number of different methods. One club I was in did the simplest, there was simply an on/off switch at each cab so you turned on the blocks you wanted to connect them to your cab. Then when two cabs tried to turn on the same block all H*ll broke loose. Some larger layouts had a dispatcher who routed the connection to each block to the various cabs through multi-position rotary switches. I use a method of "progressive" power routing where the wires from each block go to the center terminals on a dpdt (not center off) toggle. Then, one position connects to cab one, the other position goes to cab two, and connects to the center terminals on the corresponding toggle switch at that cab. Then the same thing with one position going to cab two, the other down the line to that block's toggle at cab three etc. etc. etc. Cab one turns on the block or blocks he's using. The other blocks are automatically available to cab 2 etc. Cab two can get control of any blocks that are not being used by cab 1. Cab three can use any blocks not being used by cabs one or two etc. etc. etc. The down side is you need a DPDT switch for each block for each cab. 25 blocks and four throttles means 100 switches! Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr Larry L. Doub" <larry_l_doub@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 5:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old School Block systems Ok thank you for the repy, I can understand that part, so, now how does one do this and controll more then train running? Larry L Doub --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Here's how my layout does it: > > One rail insulated every six or so linear feet of track, which can be > turned on and off by a toggle. This is a basic one-direction block. > > Now, for a block that I want to be able to run against the general flow of > traffic (For example,, when I want to back the train and switch off a car > on a siding), insulate both rails on that block, either end, and use a > double pole, double throw switch. On my pike, up is normal running, center > is off. Down is backwards against the flow via crossed wire leads. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sun, 1/22/12, Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> wrote: > > From: Mr Larry L. Doub <larry_l_doub@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Old School Block systems > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 22, 2012, 3:35 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > Hey Gang, > > Been a while since I posted thought I would pop in and say hello, and ask > something that has always made me amazed at how they did it in the Days > before DCC, how do you wire up a layout to run multiple trains the old > Block way? > > > > Larry L Doub > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18177	From: John H	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

I agree with Don, Common rail is a real pia for a layout of any size or with more than two cabs. I know there are those that use it very successfully and if it works for you, great. I found using dtdp switches worked the most reliably, More work yes, use more wire yes, but once it is in place much less problems. I'm going from a sixty plus years of memory here, back to when I was six of seven or eight at the old Appleton "O" scale club. They used a progressive system similar to Don's set up. Actually, they maybe used stdp switches on their main line cabs. There were four cabs IIRC and the toggles were basically on or off. If cab one has block #4 on, he had the block under his control. If cab one had the block #4 off, the power was passed down to block two and so on. The only cravat to good operation is the various cab operators have to watch what the hell they are doing and only turn on the blocks they need. When you train enters block 4 say, you should turn off block 3 and turn on block 5. Additionally, I believe each toggle had a light to indicate whether power was available. Then there was a freight yard, a passenger terminal and yard, engine terminal and at least one branch line, all with their own cabs, and a least a few of these blocks were also available to the main line cabs so they could yard a train. I think. Well I know they could get a train clear of the main line from the cabs. But it all worked on a progressive system. The freight yard cab had first call on power for the yard blocks for instance. They probably used dpdt switches there as the yard cab could keep power, turn off power or allow power to the main line cabs. The main line cabs were elevated and could see the entire layout from their position. Those guys would put on a good show with little or no problems as they took the operation seriously, albeit still with comradely and enjoyment. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > The simplest way with two throttles ("Cabs"), with a double throw switch for > each block that connects it to one cab or the other. > > Model railroader always touted "common rail" where you only split one rail, > and used SPDT center off toggles. I never cared for it, because you had to > insulate both rails at reversing sections anyway, and if there is a problem > it's harder to find. I split both rails, which means all switches have to > be double pole. > > For more than two cabs, there were a number of different methods. One club > I was in did the simplest, there was simply an on/off switch at each cab so > you turned on the blocks you wanted to connect them to your cab. Then when > two cabs tried to turn on the same block all H*ll broke loose. > > Some larger layouts had a dispatcher who routed the connection to each block > to the various cabs through multi-position rotary switches. > > I use a method of "progressive" power routing where the wires from each > block go to the center terminals on a dpdt (not center off) toggle. Then, > one position connects to cab one, the other position goes to cab two, and > connects to the center terminals on the corresponding toggle switch at that > cab. Then the same thing with one position going to cab two, the other down > the line to that block's toggle at cab three etc. etc. etc. > > Cab one turns on the block or blocks he's using. The other blocks are > automatically available to cab 2 etc. Cab two can get control of any blocks > that are not being used by cab 1. Cab three can use any blocks not being > used by cabs one or two etc. etc. etc. > > The down side is you need a DPDT switch for each block for each cab. 25 > blocks and four throttles means 100 switches! > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18178	From: glutrain	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

On my layout, the wiring is for 7 blocks and 3 reverse loops,2 cabs, all run through a vintage set of Atlas slide switches. Not always as straightforward to use for someone who is new to the control panel as black plastic slides against the black plastic covers are simply not evident enough for aging eyes to quickly identify which block or loop is being controlled by which cab. Despite the drawbacks, this has been my control system since the late 70's when the idea that it was going to be more fun to have two trains running than just one train. DCC will just have to wait until either the next major rebuild or successful completion of enough prerequists so that the real estate/budget discussions for an anticipated southern division can move beyond the preliminary dreaming/envisioning stage. Don H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18179	From: rcjge	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

Hey Howard: Was curious as to why you switched out the BB trucks under your Tyco Shark for the GG1's CC type? Also are you on the the Tyco Collector's Forum? Best, Gareth (Romcat) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Howard C. Taylor" <EITHLT@...> wrote: > > alan , while i can`t say what set it`s from , i do know that it has a power torque motor. some are good more than enough are bad . most of mine have been good ,if kept lubricated properly. if i remember rightly ,the big gear on the side freezes up . this statement is open for correction . ive had about 6 ,and currently have 2 running ,2 chatanooga tenders in storage for future use and the rest were junk from go. i am running the shark with gg1 trucks ,and the 060 with a lead truck and a modified hobbyline prr boiler . both run good and strong.have fun if you buy it . howard >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18180	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

Yes, nowadays, it is SOOOOOO much easier with circuitry, the old rotary switches are pretty much extinct.  They were difficult and expensive to make anyway. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC Now a days, it's hard to find anything bigger than a double pole switch. In the old days rotary switches with many poles were available surplus, but they are hard to find now.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18181	From: Alan	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

Did these 80's models still come with brass wheels,lack of handrails(doesn't appear to have been drilled for them)and cast body made me think it was older,your description with strange/unusual looking(at least to me) gearing sounds like the same beast though. Thank you, Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Howard C. Taylor" <EITHLT@...> wrote: > > alan , while i can`t say what set it`s from , i do know that it has a power torque motor. some are good more than enough are bad . most of mine have been good ,if kept lubricated properly. if i remember rightly ,the big gear on the side freezes up . this statement is open for correction . ive had about 6 ,and currently have 2 running ,2 chatanooga tenders in storage for future use and the rest were junk from go. i am running the shark with gg1 trucks ,and the 060 with a lead truck and a modified hobbyline prr boiler . both run good and strong.have fun if you buy it . howard >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18182	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: penn line us navy midjet

Jake,        Here is a little more information  about the Penn Line U S Navy Whitcomb diesel. Even though a PL catalog had a picture of the Whitcomb with black no one that collects PL has them with black decals only white pad printing or on a printing press. I saw the seller on eBay got $157 for it but I'm guessing if the buyer finds it's a fake the fun will start.                                                        Jim H Hi jim    Here is a reply I got back from another guy that collect penn line also. Sent: Monday, January 23, 201 Subject: Re: penn line us navy midjet   Bill, I've had three of those critters and all have been white printed. When I get home tonight I'll double check. Good to hear from you.    Dave Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone - Subject: penn line us navy midjet Date: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 1:17 pm   Hi dave     Just wanted to find out if you have a red midget with us navy printed in white letters. There was one in red on ebay but it had black letters and they appeared to be none in a decal . I know penn line never did anything in decals except the steam engines that were sold in a kit form then they supplied the decals other wise they were either pad printed on put on by a printing press. There was a us navy midget on ebay with black letters and this guy states he bought it from a guy that worked as a book keeper for penn line and this item was giving to him as payment for wages . the 1962 catalog does show the midget in black letters but the ones I have is in white which were applied with a paint mask or stencil or applied with a printing press  not decals.  What I’m thinking someone made up a midget with the red paint ( wrong color red also) and applied the black decals to make it look like the one in the catalog. So if you can shed some light on this subject I would appreciate hearing from you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18183	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seen on Athearn either. Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18184	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: penn line us navy midjet

Thanks Jim, - another choice tidbit for my archives!! In the early years after the war there were a lot of " one off " pieces that come out of the family based businesses. As an old employee of Lloyds Hobby Shop in Baltimore I can recall several that came through the shop. It really makes it "iffy" to verify originals. I'm kind of unusual; I guess. Even though I no longer operate a custom building and detailing business I still have that attitude that made me etch into the frame & boiler somewhere that it was a modifed original or "restored". Unfortunately eBay has made it easy for scammers to "get" the unknowing by allowing the use of the "NEW" designation to apply to customized, repainted, restored or "New" appearing items. It really bites my butt, but the only ammunition I have is to leave really low feedback so that the seller's cost of selling goes up or they get booted off of eBay. Even the ones who get booted often wind up back on the site under a diferent name. Whenever the hairs raise up on my neck I do a Google earth search for the address of the seller to see if it is a retail location. I'm not a "collector" but I respect their desire to have completely original models. When it comes to HO from the late 40s or 50s & 60s this is often hard. Most modelers back then were more than ready to modify or "detail" brand new models to make them closer matches for their favorite road. I know that I did,and all of the modelers that I knew did also. Truth is, if you didn't modify a model it was pretty bare. I have a couple of absolutely original models but only a couple. Almost all of my older models have undergone several "rebuilds". Even Varney & Mantua offered most of their parts for separate sale so modelers could customize their models. Thanks again for keeping me advised of new info that comes your way. At my age the knowledge is probably worth more to me than the model would be. I hope that this buyer manages to get a fair deal before it is over. I remember the last one that I sold I was very careful to make sure that I told buyers that I had modified the model and made some of the parts by hand to bring them closer to scale. It may sound really weird, but once I had a Mantua/Tyco industrial loco that I was repainting for a private road. I warmed up the oven to 200 oF and set the loco on the rack about 8 or 10 inches outside the front of the oven. Then I forgot it !!! Needless to say there was a meltdown ! When I realized what I had done I checked to see if it still ran? Like a clock - so -- I gave it a "dirty" wash and listed it on eBay a the survivor of a "roundhouse fire", explaining what I had done. The darn thing sold for over $50 !!! Just nother example that honesty pays ! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/23/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > >> Jake, >> > > Here is a little more information about the Penn Line U S Navy > Whitcomb diesel. Even though a PL catalog had a picture of the Whitcomb > with black no one that collects PL has them with black decals only white > pad printing or on a printing press. I saw the seller on eBay got $157 > for it but I'm guessing if the buyer finds it's a fake the fun will start. > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18185	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

The metal Mantuas were thin metal wrappers on a wood dowel. http://www.hoseeker.com/mantuainstructions/mantuametaltankcar1950pg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.com/mantuainformation/mantuacatalog19484950pg27.jpg I don't remember a Mobilgas. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seen on Athearn either. > > Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. > > I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > > I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18186	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Athearn? http://www.hoseeker.com/athearninstructionscars1950/Athearnsingledometank.jpg And here is a single-dome metal Mobilgas: http://www.hoseeker.com/athearnstandardguide2/athearncatalogs/athearncatalog1952pg03.jpg --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seen on Athearn either. > > Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. > > I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > > I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18187	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old School Block systems

On my last major HO layout prior to DCC (Circa 1990), I had a 6 way rotary switch for each block section, so that I could power each with any of 6 controllers. We had plugs in around the layout that were wired so we could plug in a walk around throttle, plugging in here and there to keep in control . This was all before wireless throttles and DCC. We had a central control board that had the track layout and the rotary switches that was manned by a dispatcher for operating sessions, he would route the power and tracks for your train. We also used a card system for routing of freight cars and ran a schedule. Was a lot of wire, but it was fun and it actually worked. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18188	From: Glenn	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

I have cars I believe to be Mantuas that have a metal shell with an embossed paper wrapper. gj -----Original Message----- From: trainsnwrcs Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s The metal Mantuas were thin metal wrappers on a wood dowel. http://www.hoseeker.com/mantuainstructions/mantuametaltankcar1950pg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.com/mantuainformation/mantuacatalog19484950pg27.jpg I don't remember a Mobilgas. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's > from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and > it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I > can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the > ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a > cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn > metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've > ever seen on Athearn either. > > Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied > Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I > don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if > I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID > it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. > > I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them > pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've > actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon > double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the > coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which > were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn > metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and > ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember > ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - > back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short > was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around > without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > > I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug > sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. > Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years > ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. > > Andy > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18189	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Hi Andy - Mantua had an all-metal line of freight cars in 1946.  I actually built several then then including a Shell tank car which I still have.  They were a bit shorter than the later plastic bodied ones and had a paper wrapper over the metal body. I had a Sinclair (black) and Texaco (silver) as well as several reefers.  Don't recall the Mobilgas however.  Check the catalogs on HO seeker. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 5:59 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Metal Tank Cars - 1950s   I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seen on Athearn either. Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18190	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Here's what the Athearn looked like. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1387319984/pic/489209248/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc http://tinyurl.com/7yg24f7I don't have a list of available roadnames at my fingertips, but I wonder ifit could have been a Thomas?DonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery----- Original Message -----From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 5:26 PMSubject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s> Athearn?>http://www.hoseeker.com/athearninstructionscars1950/Athearnsingledometank.jpg> And here is a single-dome metal Mobilgas:>http://www.hoseeker.com/athearnstandardguide2/athearncatalogs/athearncatalog1952pg03.jpg>> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote:>>>> I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it'sfrom the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car andit was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but Ican't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of theones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a castmetal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metalline car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seenon Athearn either.>>>> Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodiedMantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. Idon't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if Icould actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID itbut I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust.>>>> I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of thempre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I'veactually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monondouble-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always thecoolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, whichwere painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metalline black 3-dome car SHPX I think.>>>> We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roofand ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't rememberever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - backin the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was alittle blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around withouttrucks rusting away in the junk box for years.>>>> I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bugsort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces.Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 yearsago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars.>>>> Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18191	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

The links I provided showed an Athearn metal single-dome tank in Mobilgas. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Here's what the Athearn looked like. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1387319984/pic/489209248/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc http://tinyurl.com/7yg24f7I don't have a list of available roadnames at my fingertips, but I wonder ifit could have been a Thomas?DonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery----- Original Message -----From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 5:26 PMSubject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s> Athearn?>http://www.hoseeker.com/athearninstructionscars1950/Athearnsingledometank.jpg> And here is a single-dome metal Mobilgas:>http://www.hoseeker.com/athearnstandardguide2/athearncatalogs/athearncatalog1952pg03.jpg>> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> wrote:>>>> I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it'sfrom the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car andit was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but Ican't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of theones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a castmetal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metalline car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seenon Athearn either.>>>> Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodiedMantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. Idon't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if Icould actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID itbut I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust.>>>> I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of thempre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I'veactually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monondouble-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always thecoolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, whichwere painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metalline black 3-dome car SHPX I think.>>>> We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roofand ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't rememberever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - backin the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was alittle blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around withouttrucks rusting away in the junk box for years.>>>> I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bugsort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces.Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 yearsago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars.>>>> Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18192	From: Garry Spear	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

There is Globe Mobilgas 8,000 gal. tank car, with 3 different car numbers.  Smaller than the Athearn car. Garry Spear Recent Activity: New Members 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18193	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

For some reason outlook express messed up my reply, but if you click on the early long part of it, you should get to a picture of the Athearn one on the group page. Otherwise go to the photo album "zDon Dellmann's stuff/Athearn" and the first picture is my Athearn Mobilgas tanker. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s > The links I provided showed an Athearn metal single-dome tank in Mobilgas. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> Here's what the Athearn looked like. >> >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1387319984/pic/489209248/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >> http://tinyurl.com/7yg24f7I don't have a list of available roadnames at >> my fingertips, but I wonder ifit could have been a Thomas?DonDon >> Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery----- >> Original Message -----From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...>To: >> <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 5:26 PMSubject: >> [vintageHO] Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s> >> Athearn?>http://www.hoseeker.com/athearninstructionscars1950/Athearnsingledometank.jpg> >> And here is a single-dome metal >> Mobilgas:>http://www.hoseeker.com/athearnstandardguide2/athearncatalogs/athearncatalog1952pg03.jpg>> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> wrote:>>>> >> I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and >> it'sfrom the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome >> car andit was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, >> but Ican't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All >> of theones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells >> and a castmetal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an >> Athearn metalline car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like >> anything I've ever seenon Athearn either.>>>> Further confused by the >> fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodiedMantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. >> The metal one was a more orangish color. Idon't think MDC or Varney ever >> made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if Icould actually find the hulk >> of the car body, it might be easier to ID itbut I haven't seen it in >> decades and it may have bitten the dust.>>>> I'm trying to replicate the >> freight cars we had as kids - all of thempre-plastic, or at least they >> were "Dad's" if they were metal. I'veactually managed to come up with a >> few of them - Athearn meta! > l line Monondouble-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was > always thecoolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side > hoppers, whichwere painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. > Athearn metalline black 3-dome car SHPX I think.>>>> We also had an > Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roofand ends black, > although most examples they are all red. I don't rememberever seeing the > car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - backin the day when > the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was alittle blob of > shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around withouttrucks rusting > away in the junk box for years.>>>> I never really sought to replace these > cars until recently, and the bugsort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty > finite number of pieces.Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad > paid for them 55 yearsago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of > current freight cars.>>>> Andy >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18194	From: John H	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

link worked ok for me. And it definitely is an ogangish looking red. I see you car has the standard frame warping that seemed to happen to all those cast metal Athearn frames. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > For some reason outlook express messed up my reply, but if you click on the > early long part of it, you should get to a picture of the Athearn one on the > group page. Otherwise go to the photo album "zDon Dellmann's stuff/Athearn" > and the first picture is my Athearn Mobilgas tanker. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18195	From: John H	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Does anyone know if there were such cars in 12' to da foot scale? Other than models I've never seem a photo of one. Athearn made two versions in O scale, red and yellow and each one had a different Roller Freight logo. Not a lot different but still different enough that one can't use the same artwork for both. I found that out when I made decal sets for both. They probably made both in HO also. Like to find one of each if they did. Or make them if not. All I'd need would be two Athearn metal boxes. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: -snip- > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > -snip- > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18196	From: John H	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Duh, make that 12" to da foot. Seriously now...... John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if there were such cars in 12' to da foot scale? Other than models I've never seem a photo of one. Athearn made two versions in O scale, red and yellow and each one had a different Roller Freight logo. Not a lot different but still different enough that one can't use the same artwork for both. I found that out when I made decal sets for both. They probably made both in HO also. Like to find one of each if they did. Or make them if not. All I'd need would be two Athearn metal boxes. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> wrote: > -snip- > > > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > > > -snip- > > Andy > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18197	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Thomas also had a line of metal tank cars with painted & lettered tanks according to my foggy memory. Merle Rice --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, estabrook@... wrote: > > Hi Andy - > Mantua had an all-metal line of freight cars in 1946. I actually built several then then including a Shell tank car which I still have. They were a bit shorter than the later plastic bodied ones and had a paper wrapper over the metal body. I had a Sinclair (black) and Texaco (silver) as well as several reefers. Don't recall the Mobilgas however. Check the catalogs on HO seeker. > > Reed > > > > > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 5:59 pm > Subject: [vintageHO] Metal Tank Cars - 1950s > > > > > > I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seen on Athearn either. > > Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. > > I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > > I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18198	From: Howard C. Taylor	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

gareth, the shark runs c-c trucks because it`s original drive froze on me and i didn`t like the gg so since i did like the shark i swapped the drives and haven`t had any trouble so far. i had only had the gg a couple of months when the shark went bad . it was an easy swap, just spread the body and take out everything that went with the drive ,then reverse the procedure to reinstall it. as far as the tyco forum is concerned the answer is no i`m not. no reason other than i didn`t know about it . might look at it to see. oh, and on the gg1 , mine are currently pennline and an ihc undergoing restoration , also can access my mothers christmas gg. it`s in prr colors pulling cars that advertise local food products. her gg pulls very nicely ive had 25  70-80 foot cars on behind it. only 5 were passenger cars, the rest consisted of 3 stock (horse and elephant) cars then the rest were all loaded circus flats .22inch curves. the shark will pull most of this train. usually it`s a pennline l-1.  howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18199	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

> > The links I provided showed an Athearn metal single-dome tank in Mobilgas. > > Here's what the Athearn looked like. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1387319984/pic/489209248/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc http://tinyurl.com/7yg24f7 I think we have a winner. This sure does look like it. The body wrapper was definitely metal, not paper. Which normally would indicate Athearn, but I've never come across one in all my travels. I think the only reason I thought it was Mantua was because I had the plastic Mantua/Tyco car as well. I guess it will be a bear to find one, but I'll keep looking. Actually, among my dad's collection, the Mobilgas car *may* have survived in better condition than some of the others, assuming it survived at all. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18200	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

> Does anyone know if there were such cars in 12' to da foot scale? Other than models I've never seem a photo of one. Athearn made two versions in O scale, red and yellow and each one had a different Roller Freight logo. I know at least one Timken Roller Freight car existed, as a demonstrator that was run around the country - I've seen a picture of it somewhere in my travels. I don't know if it was red, yellow, or silver (models have been done in all three I think) or if there was more than one car. It's ironic that most of the models of this car do NOT have Timken roller bearing trucks :-) I also have to wonder if any of the red Mobilgas tank cars ever existed. If so they were probably a smaller 8kg or 10kg car than Athearn and Mantua have done. But this was an era of splashy paint, it wasn't until the big 30K+ propane cars started blowing up in the 60s and 70s, that maybe the lessors of these cars decided a rolling bomb + billboard combo wasn't in their best interest. Also at some point box cars stopped carrying loader lettering - which also seemed to be primarily advertising. As someone on the BBFCL pointed out to me, the cars wouldn't be assigned based on what's painted on the outside, but on the specs in the ORER. I was building a Penn Central X-58, and noticed that PC didn't bother to reproduce the original D/F loader logo the Pennsy cars had. Trains in general were a lot more visible then, so it made some kind of sense to have "STATE OF MAINE POTATOES" or "BLATZ BEER" in a colorful scheme. Nowadays, not like trains have gone away but they just aren't seen by the public to the same extent, and any advertising or splashy paint would be quickly murdered with graffiti anyway. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18201	From: greendoddz	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

This is the only photo I could find of a Timken demo box car: http://breitlinks.com/paul_breitsprecher/images/trkn_bx_88_op.jpg Unfortunately it doesn't look anything like the "Roller Freight" models everybody and their brother made (and still makes). Notice the weird trucks - the roller bearings were actually on the *inside*. Guess that concept didn't last too long. This pic is from the 1948 Chicago Railroad Fair. I believe the Roller Freight scheme is a few years newer. I put out the question on the STMFC and should get a pretty quick answer even if it's raucous off-topic laughter, I'm used to it. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18202	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Andy;   Thanks for finding the photo. That was probably an one-off for the show. I’d like to see more detail on the trucks.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greendoddz Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:15 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s     This is the only photo I could find of a Timken demo box car: http://breitlinks.com/paul_breitsprecher/images/trkn_bx_88_op.jpg Unfortunately it doesn't look anything like the "Roller Freight" models everybody and their brother made (and still makes). Notice the weird trucks - the roller bearings were actually on the *inside*. Guess that concept didn't last too long. This pic is from the 1948 Chicago Railroad Fair. I believe the Roller Freight scheme is a few years newer. I put out the question on the STMFC and should get a pretty quick answer even if it's raucous off-topic laughter, I'm used to it. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18203	From: erieberk	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: Metal Tank Cars - 1950s

Yes, they were very similar to Athearn's metal tank cars. However, of all 10 of the Thomas Industries tank cars, none were Mobilgas. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Model RailRoad" <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote: > > Thomas also had a line of metal tank cars with painted & lettered tanks according to my foggy memory. > Merle Rice > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, estabrook@ wrote: > > > > Hi Andy - > > Mantua had an all-metal line of freight cars in 1946. I actually built several then then including a Shell tank car which I still have. They were a bit shorter than the later plastic bodied ones and had a paper wrapper over the metal body. I had a Sinclair (black) and Texaco (silver) as well as several reefers. Don't recall the Mobilgas however. Check the catalogs on HO seeker. > > > > Reed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > From: greendoddz <greendoddz@> > > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 5:59 pm > > Subject: [vintageHO] Metal Tank Cars - 1950s > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to ID a tank car I used to have, belonged to my dad and it's from the mid to late 1950s. It was a sheet metal body single dome car and it was lettered "Mobilgas". I always thought it was a Mantua car, but I can't find any evidence that Mantua made a metal bodied tank. All of the ones I can find are the Mantua/Tyco cars with plastic top shells and a cast metal base. This car had a sheet metal body, more like an Athearn metal line car - but the paint was a shiny litho, not like anything I've ever seen on Athearn either. > > > > Further confused by the fact that we also had one of the plastic-bodied Mantua/Tyco Mobilgas cars. The metal one was a more orangish color. I don't think MDC or Varney ever made a sheet metal tank car. I suppose if I could actually find the hulk of the car body, it might be easier to ID it but I haven't seen it in decades and it may have bitten the dust. > > > > I'm trying to replicate the freight cars we had as kids - all of them pre-plastic, or at least they were "Dad's" if they were metal. I've actually managed to come up with a few of them - Athearn metal line Monon double-door box car, the green M&STL Ulrich gondola (which was always the coolest car of the bunch). Had a couple of Ulrich rib side hoppers, which were painted black but I don't think ever had any lettering. Athearn metal line black 3-dome car SHPX I think. > > > > We also had an Athearn "Roller Freight" box car. Dad painted the roof and ends black, although most examples they are all red. I don't remember ever seeing the car actually run. IIRC the trucks on it shorted out - back in the day when the only thing between your wheels and a dead short was a little blob of shellac on the axle. I remember it kicking around without trucks rusting away in the junk box for years. > > > > I never really sought to replace these cars until recently, and the bug sort of bit me. Fortunately it's a pretty finite number of pieces. Although I'm sure I'll end up paying 10x what dad paid for them 55 years ago! Still not big $$ and well below the price of current freight cars. > > > > Andy > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18204	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line

Hi Ray,   I could work on posting the list if you send the copies.  It will take some time of course.  I wonder it just the scans would do?   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:28 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line     G'Day Russ, Looks like you received a hard copy of sorts, of Kar Line inventory. Glad to see your getting this info as it can be sketchy with some kits being dropped over the years while others are added. I appreciate Chuck posting the Kar Line list of his from 1972-73 in the files. I don't have any info from that manufacturer, that early. Now, getting back to the Kar Line discussion we had going on at the end of November, in just now going through my files for IMP info, I came across more Kar Line information which I didn't realize I had (I have a four-draw file cabinet, much of it being H0 literature), and have to apologize when I indicated that Kar Line had no catalogs. I was talking from memory and forgot all about what I had in the files. I came across a Kar Line Reference Catalog, dated August 21, 1975, sent to me by the manufacturer back then. It includes all of the regular production cars that were being produced in that time-frame, although I haven't compared it with Chuck's list to see which early kits were dropped. Also have an Order Form dated 5/15/78 that I acquired somewhere along the way, probably similar to those a few other's mentioned having. Additionally, I found a hand-written letter I received in February 1979, from J. M. Madsen of Kar Line, along with an expanded Order Form for their regular production kits and a Special Limited Edition Order Form which included all of those cars produced in short quantities, like #2313 MILW 50' smooth side plug door box car (box car red), having yellow doors, aluminum roof, large "MILWAUKEE" herald and "LRD" on the door. Had to mention that one for Don!!! There are 75 cars on this Special list -- none of which are GN. If any Kar Line cars should go for high prices today, you'd think that it would be these cars, so I don't see the reasoning behind the regular runs going for phenominal amounts of money. Chuck, if you'd like to post these lists in the files, I'll send you copies of them. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > Apologies all for group post...Jerry Stevenson's e-mail address has evaporated from a) my synapses and b) my terminal! Just a quick 'THANKS JERRY!' for posting the Kar-Line inventory...arrived intact y'day! If you could contact me directly at russell.shiel(at)adelaide.edu.au I can organize reimbursement of your postage, copying etc. Much appreciate you making the effort to share your collated data. Cheers! Russ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18205	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Need Parts

Attachments : IMG_7583.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Need Parts Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:59:45 -0500 From: To: A while back a couple of guys bought me a Dallas Model Craft (DMC) E/3-E/6 B unit that was the first run in 1946 and used paper sides. The sides for the B unit were slightly butchered by the original owner. He cut out all the windows and the screens at the top of the sides. By doing so he cut braces out with the windows and the so called poorly done screens of the originals. Check the A unit which is not cut and in very good condition for 46. I am searching for a pair (right & left ) of paper sides to finish this vintage engine to get it off the work bench and match it to the A unit on the shelf. I have tried to cut pieces to fit on the backs of these sides along with drawing the lines. A real pain with no success. My shaky hands won't allow me to keep things spaced right to match the A unit. I know this is shot in the dark but I would be interested in buying a pair. Contact me off site at jimheck@... and name your price. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18206	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line

Hi Chuck, Not being very savvy about computers, I don't know how to send scans. If you care to try to explain it, perhaps I could do it. Otherwise, I'll have to make copies and mail them to you via USPS. Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18207	From: rcjge	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Tyco switcher?

Hi Howard: Had me thinking about chopping a couple "beater" Tyco Sharks (Never my Matua METAL Sharks!!!) to make a BP20 Passenegr Shark!? Only ever been a brass and resin ones around sooo..... Btw; I have a soft spot for the very odd Tyco GG1. Just like it's proportions I guess and the CC trucking... go figure... and, yeah come look in on us on the TCF. Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Howard C. Taylor" <EITHLT@...> wrote: > > gareth, the shark runs c-c trucks because it`s original drive froze on me and i didn`t like the gg so since i did like the shark i swapped the drives and haven`t had any trouble so far. i had only had the gg a couple of months when the shark went bad . it was an easy swap, just spread the body and take out everything that went with the drive ,then reverse the procedure to reinstall it. as far as the tyco forum is concerned the answer is no i`m not. no reason other than i didn`t know about it . might look at it to see. oh, and on the gg1 , mine are currently pennline and an ihc undergoing restoration , also can access my mothers christmas gg. it`s in prr colors pulling cars that advertise local food products. her gg pulls very nicely ive had 25 70-80 foot cars on behind it. only 5 were passenger cars, the rest consisted of 3 stock (horse and elephant) cars then the rest were all loaded circus flats .22inch curves. the shark will pull most of this train. usually it`s a pennline l-1. howard >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18208	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides

Attachments : IMG_7593.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:40:04 -0500 From: To:             I decided to try to repair those Dallas Model Craft cardboard/ paper sides since I doubt I will find originals. Look at the windows on the B unit. I replaced the cut out space with White background like the A unit and drew the lines that symbolize the frames for separate windows. Let me know how the A original matches up with the repaired B unit. I now want to find a piece of paper that closely matches the color of the B side piece and add the same amount of lines as the screens on the A unit shows . Nothing I can do since the A unit darker then the B sides. Age, where each was sitting has them different shades. Still better then nothing.                                                                                       Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18209	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

I am trying to rehab some Suydam interurbans that have been in storage for many years, in a hot Palm Springs, CA garage.  (Temperatures outside of 110+)  Needless to say, the rubber drive belts are not in good shape.   Does anyone know a source for these drive bands that connect the motor shaft to a worm geared truck?  They are square and I would estimate them to be somewhere between a nickel and quarter in overall size.  Right now they are slipping so I assume they have either stretched, hardened, or both.  I know about the availability of Athearn belts and their substitutes, but these are much heavier duty.  I checked Yardbirds and did a general online search, but that turned up nothing.   I am thinking that quite possibly some of the drive belts for various VCR's and tape recorders might work and I did find a site that sells a myriad of replacements.  http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/belts.htm#Square The trick is finding the exact sizes.  Does anyone know the square size of the Suydam bands and their overall diameter or circumference?   I am not sure if measurement of the old ones would be that accurate and how much I should undersize them from the measurement to get traction.   Also measuring circumference might be a bit difficult. Any help would be appreciated. Dale Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18210	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]

Did you take the A unit to a Staples and color copy the side.  That should produce a copy with the same colors for the overall side and the screen section.  For the first copy cut a sheet of paper that just allows the A side to show.  As you know you can not close the lid on the copier and you need to block the rest of the glass plate to get a true color.  Once you do the one side, put the other side in the cut out along with the just copied side and take another copy.  If the results look good, than make another copy and cut these up to make a new B side.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:45 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]     -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:40:04 -0500 From:   To:               I decided to try to repair those Dallas Model Craft cardboard/ paper sides since I doubt I will find originals. Look at the windows on the B unit. I replaced the cut out space with White background like the A unit and drew the lines that symbolize the frames for separate windows. Let me know how the A original matches up with the repaired B unit. I now want to find a piece of paper that closely matches the color of the B side piece and add the same amount of lines as the screens on the A unit shows . Nothing I can do since the A unit darker then the B sides. Age, where each was sitting has them different shades. Still better then nothing.                                                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18211	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line

Hi Ray,   When a scan is made the file is saved some where.  If you know where that is then attach that file to an email.  When the scan is made usually a screen comes up that allows you to change the computer name of the scan to a name you would rather have for the scan.  This screen shows the path to get to these scans.  Some times it is a sub folder in “My Pictures” like the current month/year the scan was made.  If that is what you see when you make the scan, then follow that path to attach the file.   If I have lost you then send the copies.   Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:30 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: To Jerry S re Kar-Line     Hi Chuck, Not being very savvy about computers, I don't know how to send scans. If you care to try to explain it, perhaps I could do it. Otherwise, I'll have to make copies and mail them to you via USPS. Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18212	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Well, you need to measure the center to center distance of the pulleys..... Or measure for the top of the top pulley to the bottom of the lower pulley and the subtract the measured radius of each pulley. The circumference of each pulley is just pi x 2radius. You'll add half of each pulley circumference plus twice the distance between to have the circumference of the belt. Divide that by pi and you'll have the diameter of the belt you need. There you go..... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to rehab some Suydam interurbans that have been in storage for many years, in a hot Palm Springs, CA garage. (Temperatures outside of 110+) Needless to say, the rubber drive belts are not in good shape. Does anyone know a source for these drive bands that connect the motor shaft to a worm geared truck? They are square and I would estimate them to be somewhere ........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18213	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides

Hi Chuck,     Nice hearing from you. Hope you are feeling better then me. This unknown Irritated Bowel Syndrome is the pits. Have been pushing myself to finish some projects      Closest Staples is hour away. You know I live in the boon docks.       I will just match the light gray of the rest of the B body and add the screens. That is how both the A & B sides came, one darker then the other. Still will look better then a bare piece of metal. Take care.                                                        Jim H On 1/25/2012 2:52 PM, Chuck Higdon wrote:   Did you take the A unit to a Staples and color copy the side.  That should produce a copy with the same colors for the overall side and the screen section.  For the first copy cut a sheet of paper that just allows the A side to show.  As you know you can not close the lid on the copier and you need to block the rest of the glass plate to get a true color.  Once you do the one side, put the other side in the cut out along with the just copied side and take another copy.  If the results look good, than make another copy and cut these up to make a new B side.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:45 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]     -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:40:04 -0500 From:   To:               I decided to try to repair those Dallas Model Craft cardboard/ paper sides since I doubt I will find originals. Look at the windows on the B unit. I replaced the cut out space with White background like the A unit and drew the lines that symbolize the frames for separate windows. Let me know how the A original matches up with the repaired B unit. I now want to find a piece of paper that closely matches the color of the B side piece and add the same amount of lines as the screens on the A unit shows . Nothing I can do since the A unit darker then the B sides. Age, where each was sitting has them different shades. Still better then nothing.                                                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18214	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

That may be a little easier said than done.  To get the pulley to pulley center distances, I would need to make sure the truck is completely parallel to the frame, to which the motor is mounted.   With the truck connected to the frame there is little room to get in and measure, except with perhaps a 1/8 to 1/4 wide measuring stick.   Getting a caliper into the grooves of the pulley won't be easy either.  Also isn't circumference pi x r squared, not "2radius."   I would bet that Yahoo translated your mathematical symbols wrong.   As to the divide by Pi to get the diameter, won't you actually have the square of the radius?   Wouldn't you need to take the square root of that x 2 for the diameter?  Thanks for the suggestion though, as I may have to resort to something like this, though I would still need to take off a little from such a calculation to keep it snug. Dale On 1/25/2012 12:30 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:   Well, you need to measure the center to center distance of the pulleys..... Or measure for the top of the top pulley to the bottom of the lower pulley and the subtract the measured radius of each pulley. The circumference of each pulley is just pi x 2radius. You'll add half of each pulley circumference plus twice the distance between to have the circumference of the belt. Divide that by pi and you'll have the diameter of the belt you need. There you go..... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to rehab some Suydam interurbans that have been in storage for many years, in a hot Palm Springs, CA garage. (Temperatures outside of 110+) Needless to say, the rubber drive belts are not in good shape. Does anyone know a source for these drive bands that connect the motor shaft to a worm geared truck? They are square and I would estimate them to be somewhere ........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18215	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides

I suffered from IBS for years and years (part of Fibromyalgia). Last year I found this Forta Flora, or Ultimate Flora (by Renew Life), 30 billion little bacteria per capsule. Took a while, I now do one capsule every two days, and instead of huge swings in.....issues....now it's a small ripple, well handled. Just a thought. Dave > > Hi Chuck, > > Hope you are feeling better then me. This unknown Irritated Bowel Syndrome is the pits. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18216	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]

Why not make color photocopies of the A unit sides?   Layer them underneath the damaged B unit sides.  If everything doesn't properly align, edit with scissors.  If the A sides are darker than the B,  it can represent the dirt that usually shows on the intake grills. Richard D. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 12:45 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:40:04 -0500 From: To:             I decided to try to repair those Dallas Model Craft cardboard/ paper sides since I doubt I will find originals. Look at the windows on the B unit. I replaced the cut out space with White background like the A unit and drew the lines that symbolize the frames for separate windows. Let me know how the A original matches up with the repaired B unit. I now want to find a piece of paper that closely matches the color of the B side piece and add the same amount of lines as the screens on the A unit shows . Nothing I can do since the A unit darker then the B sides. Age, where each was sitting has them different shades. Still better then nothing.                                                                                       Jim H Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 1 of 1 Photo(s) IMG_7593.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18217	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Alpine Division makes replacement "O" ring drive belts in 2 sizes.  Available from Walthers and other sources. Don From: Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 11:30 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn I am trying to rehab some Suydam interurbans that have been in storage for many years, in a hot Palm Springs, CA garage.  (Temperatures outside of 110+)  Needless to say, the rubber drive belts are not in good shape.   Does anyone know a source for these drive bands that connect the motor shaft to a worm geared truck?  They are square and I would estimate them to be somewhere between a nickel and quarter in overall size.  Right now they are slipping so I assume they have either stretched, hardened, or both.  I know about the availability of Athearn belts and their substitutes, but these are much heavier duty.  I checked Yardbirds and did a general online search, but that turned up nothing.   I am thinking that quite possibly some of the drive belts for various VCR's and tape recorders might work and I did find a site that sells a myriad of replacements.  http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/belts.htm#Square The trick is finding the exact sizes.  Does anyone know the square size of the Suydam bands and their overall diameter or circumference?   I am not sure if measurement of the old ones would be that accurate and how much I should undersize them from the measurement to get traction.   Also measuring circumference might be a bit difficult. Any help would be appreciated. Dale Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18218	From: keith gutshall	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Hello Gentlemen  I hate to be rude,but you munbers are wrong.  PI r2= area  d x pi =C    Belt lenght is, pi x d = c  1/2 for each pulley+ 2 center distance.    This should work for you.    Keith Gutshall   Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" From: Dale F. Smith <dalefsmith@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn   That may be a little easier said than done.  To get the pulley to pulley center distances, I would need to make sure the truck is completely parallel to the frame, to which the motor is mounted.   With the truck connected to the frame there is little room to get in and measure, except with perhaps a 1/8 to 1/4 wide measuring stick.   Getting a caliper into the grooves of the pulley won't be easy either.  Also isn't circumference pi x r squared, not "2radius."   I would bet that Yahoo translated your mathematical symbols wrong.   As to the divide by Pi to get the diameter, won't you actually have the square of the radius?   Wouldn't you need to take the square root of that x 2 for the diameter?  Thanks for the suggestion though, as I may have to resort to something like this, though I would still need to take off a little from such a calculation to keep it snug. Dale On 1/25/2012 12:30 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:   Well, you need to measure the center to center distance of the pulleys..... Or measure for the top of the top pulley to the bottom of the lower pulley and the subtract the measured radius of each pulley. The circumference of each pulley is just pi x 2radius. You'll add half of each pulley circumference plus twice the distance between to have the circumference of the belt. Divide that by pi and you'll have the diameter of the belt you need. There you go..... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote: > > > I am trying to rehab some Suydam interurbans that have been in storage for many years, in a hot Palm Springs, CA garage. (Temperatures outside of 110+) Needless to say, the rubber drive belts are not in good shape. Does anyone know a source for these drive bands that connect the motor shaft to a worm geared truck? They are square and I would estimate them to be somewhere ........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Keith, You got this back on track nicely. I did mean pi x 2r for the full circumference. Perhaps I should have just wrote pi x r for the half circle he needed? You add radii for the circumference and square radii for the area. The lesser measure is the circumference which is my reminder to use the less complicated formula. The pulley measurement is easy with the right tool. I like those low priced digital verniers that good hardware stores and places like Harbor Freight sell. They often have the 6-inch  model for sale around $16. Lately it seems to be one with a readout of inches/metric/fractional-inches. The darned things are so very handy to get accurate measurements of model parts that you won't mind that you'll only use it now and then. They have thin wedge tips on them, allowing you to get an accurate measurement of the groove on those pulleys. They are also handy tools with those thousands of poorly marked/scaled drawings in the older model magazines and books.  Thus I have a few around the house, at the workbench, near the computer and it's printer, and near where I'll often be reading hobby books. They are useful when you have unmarked stripwood/strip-styrene or spilled several assorted drill bits. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 10:44 PM, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote: Hello Gentlemen  I hate to be rude,but you munbers are wrong.  PI r2= area  d x pi =C    Belt lenght is, pi x d = c  1/2 for each pulley+ 2 center distance.    This should work for you.    Keith Gutshall   Deep Run .........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18220	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

All I can say is "Oops".  At least I remembered the formula, even if it was the wrong one, probably because I haven't used it in over 50 years.   One of the reasons I became a lawyer instead of an engineer. :-)   As to the measurement of the pulleys, the calipers make it easy, but only if you can reach the pulley.   The motor shaft is easy, but the truck pulley could require the dis-assembly of the truck, something I would like to avoid.  I haven't gotten a good look, but I think there is a distinct possibility that they are both the same size, which would make things easy.  I still think I will need a slight bit of tension on the pulleys though so even an exact measurement is only an approximation of what I need. Dale On 1/25/2012 10:25 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:   Keith, You got this back on track nicely. I did mean pi x 2r for the full circumference. Perhaps I should have just wrote pi x r for the half circle he needed? You add radii for the circumference and square radii for the area. The lesser measure is the circumference which is my reminder to use the less complicated formula. The pulley measurement is easy with the right tool. I like those low priced digital verniers that good hardware stores and places like Harbor Freight sell. They often have the 6-inch  model for sale around $16. Lately it seems to be one with a readout of inches/metric/fractional-inches. The darned things are so very handy to get accurate measurements of model parts that you won't mind that you'll only use it now and then. They have thin wedge tips on them, allowing you to get an accurate measurement of the groove on those pulleys. They are also handy tools with those thousands of poorly marked/scaled drawings in the older model magazines and books.  Thus I have a few around the house, at the workbench, near the computer and it's printer, and near where I'll often be reading hobby books. They are useful when you have unmarked stripwood/strip-styrene or spilled several assorted drill bits. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 10:44 PM, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote: Hello Gentlemen  I hate to be rude,but you munbers are wrong.  PI r2= area  d x pi =C    Belt lenght is, pi x d = c  1/2 for each pulley+ 2 center distance.    This should work for you.    Keith Gutshall   Deep Run .........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18221	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Mike and Keith are saying the same thing, and both are CORRECT. For clarity, 2R=D. As for getting the caliper into the grooves, there should be a depth gauge at the bottom of the caliper. I have several calipers and all have that feature. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18222	From: jim kellow	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]

Great job.  Nice to see some of the old stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]   -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Started to repair E3/E6 sides Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:40:04 -0500 From: To:             I decided to try to repair those Dallas Model Craft cardboard/ paper sides since I doubt I will find originals. Look at the windows on the B unit. I replaced the cut out space with White background like the A unit and drew the lines that symbolize the frames for separate windows. Let me know how the A original matches up with the repaired B unit. I now want to find a piece of paper that closely matches the color of the B side piece and add the same amount of lines as the screens on the A unit shows . Nothing I can do since the A unit darker then the B sides. Age, where each was sitting has them different shades. Still better then nothing.                                                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18223	From: keith gutshall	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Hello Mike  Let's see if we can make it clearer.for belt lenght.  The belt goes around half of the curcumference of each pulley, then you need  two shaft center distance.       (O=O) sort of like this. I works for the machine drives I build in my  shop.   The little digital calipers handy tool to have.    Keith Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn   Keith, You got this back on track nicely. I did mean pi x 2r for the full circumference. Perhaps I should have just wrote pi x r for the half circle he needed? You add radii for the circumference and square radii for the area. The lesser measure is the circumference which is my reminder to use the less complicated formula. The pulley measurement is easy with the right tool. I like those low priced digital verniers that good hardware stores and places like Harbor Freight sell. They often have the 6-inch  model for sale around $16. Lately it seems to be one with a readout of inches/metric/fractional-inches. The darned things are so very handy to get accurate measurements of model parts that you won't mind that you'll only use it now and then. They have thin wedge tips on them, allowing you to get an accurate measurement of the groove on those pulleys. They are also handy tools with those thousands of poorly marked/scaled drawings in the older model magazines and books.  Thus I have a few around the house, at the workbench, near the computer and it's printer, and near where I'll often be reading hobby books. They are useful when you have unmarked stripwood/strip-styrene or spilled several assorted drill bits. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 10:44 PM, keith gutshall <drpshops@...> wrote: Hello Gentlemen  I hate to be rude,but you munbers are wrong.  PI r2= area  d x pi =C    Belt lenght is, pi x d = c  1/2 for each pulley+ 2 center distance.    This should work for you.    Keith Gutshall   Deep Run .........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18224	From: Wally Weart	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

I have a fairly large collection of Suydam interurbans and have never had one with rubber drive belts. All of mine have springs and these are still available. I have purchased  a few older LaBelle kits which use "O" rings in place of spring belts. I recall that years ago an article,the author recommend using O rings instead of spring belts as spring belts can slip or be so tight as to drag on the motor and causing overheating. The nice thing with spring belts is that they may be cut to size and are easier to install. My only caution is to keep the pulleys dry and I have seen pulleys coated with latex to increase the friction between belt an pulley. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18225	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

Go to an automotive/industrial bearing supply store and look through their stock of O-rings.  The proper size (or sizes) will almost surely pop up. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18226	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Started to repair E3/E6 sides [1 Attachment]

Jim, I not exactly sure if I'm following your intended methods precisely, but if you're going to replace portions of these B Unit sides with cut-outs from other paper material, perhaps you might be able to find artist's construction paper in a close shade of your needed gray to use for these sections if that's what you're after. I realize that you're in the boon docks, but perhaps a stationery store might have this -- IF there's one near you. If you find the construction paper, and it's either too heavy (too thick) or not the right shade of gray, a color copier would solve that problem for you if the construction paper is copied. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18227	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

I was kind of surprised at the Rubber belts, as I some of these units do have the spring belts.  These belonged to a friend I didn't see that often, so I am not sure what he did to modify them.   For the last 10-12 years, they just sat in his hot garage in the desert.   Thanks for the information all of you. Dale On 1/26/2012 7:46 AM, Wally Weart wrote:   I have a fairly large collection of Suydam interurbans and have never had one with rubber drive belts. All of mine have springs and these are still available. I have purchased  a few older LaBelle kits which use "O" rings in place of spring belts. I recall that years ago an article,the author recommend using O rings instead of spring belts as spring belts can slip or be so tight as to drag on the motor and causing overheating. The nice thing with spring belts is that they may be cut to size and are easier to install. My only caution is to keep the pulleys dry and I have seen pulleys coated with latex to increase the friction between belt an pulley. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18228	From: indianscoutrider2	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Help with Japan Kawai HO trolley wiring

Hello, I have a very old Brass Kawai model train trolley with a pantograph on top and the ability to wire power to the pantograph or wheels. Currently it is in very beautiful condition. The problem I have is the wiring to the motor is confusing and I can't figure out how to wire it so that it runs on wheels. I am willing to send pictures to show my inability to figure it out. Any help would greatly be appreciated! Thank you. K

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18229	From: David	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

I found these HO oldies  (David's Vintage Junkarola folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. Photo #1  and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic hangers. Motor is missing. The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn Line? Bowser? Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be much appreciated. Photo #3 -  A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders.  Appliques - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty tender 0-4-0? #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks original. Anybody have further info? #5 - Operating Hopper Car.  Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? Thanks to all who provide help. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18230	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

The 2-6-2 looks Roundhouse-ish. Had a 4-4-2 as a kid sat up high like that. The hopper is pretty common....Mantua/Tyco and I think Flyer (have one of each) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > I found these > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t> HO oldies > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola > folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. > > I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I > can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the > folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. > > Photo #1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/115\ > 8867225/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, > brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic > hangers. Motor is missing. > > The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate > compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels > are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab > does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high > headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn > Line? Bowser? > > Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be > much appreciated. > > Photo #3 - A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and > cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders. Appliques > - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red > printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher > imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it > was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A > friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil > sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty > tender 0-4-0? > > #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO > in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think > they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a > military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI > Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or > German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" > locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks > original. Anybody have further info? > > #5 - Operating Hopper Car. Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their > weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is > red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? > > Thanks to all who provide help. > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18231	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Hi, No idea on the 2-6-2. The 0-4-0 looks like an Aristo Craft I had once. The side rod diesel indeed looks like and early AHM/Fleishman. The operating hopper looks like the Tyco/Mantua Jake Bechtel On 1/26/12, David <dnhelber@...> wrote: > I found these > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t> HO oldies > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola > folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. > > I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I > can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the > folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. > > Photo #1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/115\ > 8867225/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, > brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic > hangers. Motor is missing. > > The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate > compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels > are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab > does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high > headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn > Line? Bowser? > > Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be > much appreciated. > > Photo #3 - A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and > cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders. Appliques > - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red > printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher > imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it > was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A > friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil > sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty > tender 0-4-0? > > #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO > in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think > they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a > military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI > Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or > German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" > locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks > original. Anybody have further info? > > #5 - Operating Hopper Car. Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their > weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is > red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? > > Thanks to all who provide help. > > -- David > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18232	From: John H	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

The 2-6-2 is some sort of a kit bash. The boiler/cab is the MDC 4-4-2. The mechanism obviously is not. The 0-4-0 is an Aristo-Craft IIRC and the hopper is most likely Tyco. The side rod diesel... don't know and don't care. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > I found these > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t> HO oldies > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola > folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. > > I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I > can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the > folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. > > Photo #1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/115\ > 8867225/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, > brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic > hangers. Motor is missing. > > The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate > compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels > are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab > does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high > headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn > Line? Bowser? > > Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be > much appreciated. > > Photo #3 - A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and > cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders. Appliques > - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red > printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher > imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it > was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A > friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil > sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty > tender 0-4-0? > > #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO > in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think > they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a > military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI > Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or > German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" > locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks > original. Anybody have further info? > > #5 - Operating Hopper Car. Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their > weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is > red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? > > Thanks to all who provide help. > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18233	From: Glenn	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

I can’t see the photos—but MDC did make a Santa Fe 2—6-2—prototype #1010 is in the Calif. State RR Museum.  I have the MDC loco.   From: David Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 7:28 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   I found these HO oldies  (David's Vintage Junkarola folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. Photo #1 and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic hangers. Motor is missing. The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn Line? Bowser? Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be much appreciated. Photo #3 -  A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders.  Appliques - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty tender 0-4-0? #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks original. Anybody have further info? #5 - Operating Hopper Car.  Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? Thanks to all who provide help. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18234	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

The side-rod diesel looks like the very early AHM offerings. Mike Bauers On Jan 26, 2012, at 10:52 PM, John H wrote: > The 2-6-2 is some sort of a kit bash. The boiler/cab is the MDC 4-4-2. The mechanism obviously is not. The 0-4-0 is an Aristo-Craft IIRC and the hopper is most likely Tyco. The side rod diesel... don't know and don't care. > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: >> >> I found these >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ >> t> HO oldies >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ >> t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola >> folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. >> >> I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I >> can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the >> folks here might enjoy helping to ID them.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18235	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

These are all first "gut reactions", research may prove me wrong but...... The 2-6-2 I'm guessing is an MDC, but the proportions look wrong, the 0-6-0 Aristocraft (pretty sure on that one), the diesel I'm guessing AristoCraft again, sold as the "Little shoe", the hopper is Mantua. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <dnhelber@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated I found these <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ t> HO oldies <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. Photo #1 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/115\ 8867225/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic hangers. Motor is missing. The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn Line? Bowser? Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be much appreciated. Photo #3 - A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders. Appliques - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty tender 0-4-0? #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks original. Anybody have further info? #5 - Operating Hopper Car. Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? Thanks to all who provide help. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18236	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Hi David - 1. & 2. I'm pretty sure that's a Roundhouse loco. 3. The 0-4-0 is definitely an Aristo-Craft loco made by New One Models of Japan.  It had a tiny little tender. 4. I believe this was an early Rivarossi loco of a European prototype. 5. Definitely a Mantua auto-dump hopper. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: David <dnhelber@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2012 10:28 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   I found these HO oldies  (David's Vintage Junkarola folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. Photo #1  and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic hangers. Motor is missing. The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-hole s for a separate compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn Line? Bowser? Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be much appreciated. Photo #3 -  A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders.  Appliques - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/market ed this pretty tender 0-4-0? #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks original. Anybody have further info? #5 - Operating Hopper Car.  Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? Thanks to all who provide help. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18237	From: texpearson@AOL.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Rubber drive belts - For Suydam, not Athearn

How much should you stretch an O ring to get the best performance?   Tom in Texas

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18238	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Nice score. The 2-6-2 is not a kitbash. The shell & Mechanism is definitely MDC Roundhouse - I have about 4 of them. The 0-4-0 is a Japan import Aristo-Craft / New One Model. The Hopper car is a Tyco. Some came with covers. The 0-4-0 is a Rivarossi A DA/R or A A/A/R diesel switcher locomotive worth ~$75 to most Italian buyers as it was offered only the the US market in the early 60's and not to the Italian market.  See this site for proof of the Rivarossi: http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_American_Locos/Riva_A_DA-R_Eng.htm   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   The 2-6-2 is some sort of a kit bash. The boiler/cab is the MDC 4-4-2. The mechanism obviously is not. The 0-4-0 is an Aristo-Craft IIRC and the hopper is most likely Tyco. The side rod diesel... don't know and don't care. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > I found these > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4) Recent Activity: New Members 2 New Photos 5 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18239	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Hi Reed, The Rivarossi was supposed to represent a generic American model with no real prototype. Not European in any way. This was the European model: http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/Riva_Loco_Americane/Riva_ABL_AR.htm Thiat one sells for well over $100. I agree with everything else.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "estabrook@..." <estabrook@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   Hi David - 1. & 2. I'm pretty sure that's a Roundhouse loco. 3. The 0-4-0 is definitely an Aristo-Craft loco made by New One Models of Japan.  It had a tiny little tender. 4. I believe this was an early Rivarossi loco of a European prototype. 5. Definitely a Mantua auto-dump hopper. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: David <dnhelber@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2012 10:28 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   I found these HO oldies  (David's Vintage Junkarola folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. Photo #1  and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic hangers. Motor is missing. The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-hole s for a separate compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn Line? Bowser? Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be much appreciated. Photo #3 -  A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders.  Appliques - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/market ed this pretty tender 0-4-0? #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks original. Anybody have further info? #5 - Operating Hopper Car.  Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? Thanks to all who provide help. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18240	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Evans made a locomotive that sort of looks like this.  It was stylized, like this model.  The Narragansett Pier RR had one.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18241	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Hi Sean - Thanks for the pictures!  I had one of the European ones lettered for CNJ - It didn't run, but was bought by an Italian eBay'r for a decent amount. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 11:34 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   Hi Reed, The Rivarossi was supposed to represent a generic American model with no real prototype. Not European in any way. This was the European model: http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/Riva_Loco_Americane/Riva_ABL_AR.htm Thiat one sells for well over $100. I agree with everything else.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "estabrook@..." <estabrook@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   Hi David - 1. & 2. I'm pretty sure that's a Roundhouse loco. 3. The 0-4-0 is definitely an Aristo-Craft loco made by New One Models of Japan.  It had a tiny little tender. 4. I believe this was an early Rivarossi loco of a European prototype. 5. Definitely a Mantua auto-dump hopper. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: David <dnhelber@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2012 10:28 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   I found these HO oldies  (David's Vintage Junkarola folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. Photo #1  and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic hangers. Motor is missing. The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-hole s for a separate compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn Line? Bowser? Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be much appreciated. Photo #3 -  A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders.  Appliques - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/market ed this pretty tender 0-4-0? #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks original. Anybody have further info? #5 - Operating Hopper Car.  Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? Thanks to all who provide help. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18242	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Projects at a standstill

Ray F W and Others. I want to thank all who sent a response about a way to fill in missing cutouts on my DMC E3/ E6. Ray you are right what I'm trying to do. I have no scanner. On a copy machine I tried to copy the A unit paper sides but the lid won't shut on the full engine. Don't intend to take side off. Even with a towel around the engine and the top down I haven't come up with a good one to cut out to paste on the B unit. I have been searching for a thin piece of paper / cardboard that would match the color of the sides on the B unit but know luck yet. Found many silver gray pieces but nothing close. I tried matching paint but even dry the fine black pens scratches the paint off in places. I'll just keep looking for a match. Not going anywhere and living in the sticks the deer, fox and turkey running around can't help. I am held up on 3 different projects since I don't have a local Hobby shop within less the an hour drive. I need B&O blue & gray paint to finish the bodies for the Varney pre war celluloid sides. I need fresh yellow paint and olive drab to work on touching up the wooden bodied DL-109 ? I can do some repair work on the wooden body. Last I need something to use for the cut out screens on the DMC E3/E6. I have to wait for my son , who lives in Lebanon PA, to go to the big Hobby store there to get what I need and bring it to me. . So now I sit and wait. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18243	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: B unit sides fixed

Attachments : IMG_7618.JPG I got the B unit sides for the DMC fixed. Not perfect with my shaking hands but don't look to bad. I didn't get the B sides glued on yet but that is minor. When I first got this B unit almost a year ago I copied the sides with the cut out windows and screens on my colored printer. I used pieces from them cut to fit the missing screens after drawing the lines to match the A unit screens. It worked out pretty good. Question.I know a lot of freight cars had pre printed paper sides. Does anyone remember any other engines with paper sides ? Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18244	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment]

That actually does look good, Jim. To answer your question, I think the Strombecker diesels that came with passenger sets, had printed sides, roof, nose, etc. I don't have any of them on hand, though. Not strictly speaking HO scale, but they can be powered, so they ought to count. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:08 PM   I got the B unit sides for the DMC fixed. Not perfect with my shaking hands but don't look to bad. I didn't get the B sides glued on yet but that is minor. When I first got this B unit almost a year ago I copied the sides with the cut out windows and screens on my colored printer. I used pieces from them cut to fit the missing screens after drawing the lines to match the A unit screens. It worked out pretty good. Question.I know a lot of freight cars had pre printed paper sides. Does anyone remember any other engines with paper sides ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18245	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed

Steve,      Thanks for the reply and Strombecker. If I remember the Diesels in the Strombecker Kits had large decal sheets. The Passenger cars were cardboard sides. I have mint B&O and Rock Island rocket kits but would have to check before I swear on a bible.                                                              Jim H On 1/27/2012 6:18 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   That actually does look good, Jim. To answer your question, I think the Strombecker diesels that came with passenger sets, had printed sides, roof, nose, etc. I don't have any of them on hand, though. Not strictly speaking HO scale, but they can be powered, so they ought to count. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:08 PM   I got the B unit sides for the DMC fixed. Not perfect with my shaking hands but don't look to bad. I didn't get the B sides glued on yet but that is minor. When I first got this B unit almost a year ago I copied the sides with the cut out windows and screens on my colored printer. I used pieces from them cut to fit the missing screens after drawing the lines to match the A unit screens. It worked out pretty good. Question.I know a lot of freight cars had pre printed paper sides. Does anyone remember any other engines with paper sides ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18246	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed

I just checked my Rocket and it is paper.  I think you did a great job with the A sides into B sides.  As B sides have the same colors as the A sides.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 6:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed     Steve, B B B B Thanks for the reply and Strombecker. If I remember the Diesels in the Strombecker Kits had large decal sheets. The Passenger cars were cardboard sides. I have mint B&O and Rock Island rocket kits but would have to check before I swear on a bible. B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B Jim H __

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18247	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed

Jim, You may be right about the decal. That is starting to sound familiar for some reason. I only have one Strombecker diesel. It is a body painted a solid yellow, and has had no further cosmetic treatment, so I can't say one way or the other. Got lots of Strombecker coaches though including a fairly nice Rock Island set done up as a four car articulated train. But just the one locomotive shell. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:45 PM   Steve,      Thanks for the reply and Strombecker. If I remember the Diesels in the Strombecker Kits had large decal sheets. The Passenger cars were cardboard sides. I have mint B&O and Rock Island rocket kits but would have to check before I swear on a bible.                                                              Jim H On 1/27/2012 6:18 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   That actually does look good, Jim. To answer your question, I think the Strombecker diesels that came with passenger sets, had printed sides, roof, nose, etc. I don't have any of them on hand, though. Not strictly speaking HO scale, but they can be powered, so they ought to count. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:08 PM   I got the B unit sides for the DMC fixed. Not perfect with my shaking hands but don't look to bad. I didn't get the B sides glued on yet but that is minor. When I first got this B unit almost a year ago I copied the sides with the cut out windows and screens on my colored printer. I used pieces from them cut to fit the missing screens after drawing the lines to match the A unit screens. It worked out pretty good. Question.I know a lot of freight cars had pre printed paper sides. Does anyone remember any other engines with paper sides ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18248	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed

Just saw Chuck's message here. So at least the Rock Island TA diesel is paper sided. I wonder if that also means the B&O and UP diesels are too. The Rocket's cars assemble different from the other sets, so I guess anyone could be right. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:54 PM   I just checked my Rocket and it is paper.  I think you did a great job with the A sides into B sides.  As B sides have the same colors as the A sides.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 6:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed     Steve, B B B B Thanks for the reply and Strombecker. If I remember the Diesels in the Strombecker Kits had large decal sheets. The Passenger cars were cardboard sides. I have mint B&O and Rock Island rocket kits but would have to check before I swear on a bible. B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B Jim H __

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18249	From: Glenn	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed

Two different passenger trains—First was the Rocket—printed paper sheets for the sides and nose of the loco (I think they called it a “power car”).  The cars had milled wood roof and corrugated lower sides, with printed card stock window panels.  Windows were part of the print job.   Later  was a City off SF/B&O Columbian.  this one had decals for the windows and grilles on the E-7 locos, cars had full-height printed sides with the windows die cut—and frosted acetate window material.    If anyone is interested, I have a set of the Rock Island cars with metal trucks—I’d like to sell it for $10 plus shipping.  Contact me  off-list--              glenn476@...  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed   That actually does look good, Jim. To answer your question, I think the Strombecker diesels that came with passenger sets, had printed sides, roof, nose, etc. I don't have any of them on hand, though. Not strictly speaking HO scale, but they can be powered, so they ought to count. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:08 PM   I got the B unit sides for the DMC fixed. Not perfect with my shaking hands but don't look to bad. I didn't get the B sides glued on yet but that is minor. When I first got this B unit almost a year ago I copied the sides with the cut out windows and screens on my colored printer. I used pieces from them cut to fit the missing screens after drawing the lines to match the A unit screens. It worked out pretty good. Question.I know a lot of freight cars had pre printed paper sides. Does anyone remember any other engines with paper sides ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18250	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: B unit sides fixed

That sounds right. I have found that over the years the sides of the B&O and UP coaches are badly warped, because of the acetate. Generally I can get the sides off the body, remove the acetate, then smooth out the sides again, though. Very dicey and delicate work! Sorry to derail Jim's topic here! -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 6:32 PM   Two different passenger trains—First was the Rocket—printed paper sheets for the sides and nose of the loco (I think they called it a “power car”).  The cars had milled wood roof and corrugated lower sides, with printed card stock window panels.  Windows were part of the print job.   Later  was a City off SF/B&O Columbian.  this one had decals for the windows and grilles on the E-7 locos, cars had full-height printed sides with the windows die cut—and frosted acetate window material.    If anyone is interested, I have a set of the Rock Island cars with metal trucks—I’d like to sell it for $10 plus shipping.  Contact me  off-list--              glenn476@...  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed   That actually does look good, Jim. To answer your question, I think the Strombecker diesels that came with passenger sets, had printed sides, roof, nose, etc. I don't have any of them on hand, though. Not strictly speaking HO scale, but they can be powered, so they ought to count. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] B unit sides fixed [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 5:08 PM   I got the B unit sides for the DMC fixed. Not perfect with my shaking hands but don't look to bad. I didn't get the B sides glued on yet but that is minor. When I first got this B unit almost a year ago I copied the sides with the cut out windows and screens on my colored printer. I used pieces from them cut to fit the missing screens after drawing the lines to match the A unit screens. It worked out pretty good. Question.I know a lot of freight cars had pre printed paper sides. Does anyone remember any other engines with paper sides ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18251	From: David	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Evans made a locomotive that sort of looks like this. It was stylized, like this model. Pardon - who is Evans? -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18252	From: K Shan	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Help with Kawai brass wiring

Attachments : IMG_0021.jpg IMG_0020.jpg Hello, I have a very old Brass Kawai model train trolley with a pantograph on top and the ability to wire power to the pantograph or wheels. Currently it is in very beautiful condition. The problem I have is the wiring to the motor is confusing and I can't figure out how to wire it so that it runs on wheels. I am willing to send pictures to show my inability to figure it out. I believe it is missing a wire on one side as it has a copper wire like a ground wire. I bought this from someone and he had lost the original wire. Any help would greatly be appreciated!  Thank you. Kurt

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18253	From: Wally	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the other listers. Thanks!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18254	From: Allan	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Varney

I have a box for an Varney flat car. Label reads economy kit L&N black with tractors #2734k. I would like to know the road number on the car. Thanks

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18255	From: Jay	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring

Hi Kurt, Thanks for posting the photos. That little beauty is in great shape! Those model electric locomotives built by Kawai were imported by both International and Ken Kidder. Though I did not find an exact wiring diagram on HOSeeker for your specfic model, I did find another diagram from Kawai for a larger electric locomotive model (from the collection of our member Russ Shiel) that does show the wiring in a pictographic schematic that will allow the unit to operate from either two rail or pantograph and rail. Look at the upper right corner of this instruction: http://www.hoseeker.org/kawai/kawaijapaneseelectriclocodiagram.jpg Hope this helps! W. Jay W. In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, K Shan <indianscoutrider2@...> wrote: > > Hello, I have a very old Brass Kawai model train trolley with a pantograph on top and the ability to wire power to the pantograph or wheels. Currently it is in very beautiful condition. The problem I have is the wiring to the motor is confusing and I can't figure out how to wire it so that it runs on wheels. I am willing to send pictures to show my inability to figure it out. I believe it is missing a wire on one side as it has a copper wire like a ground wire. I bought this from someone and he had lost the original wire. Any help would greatly be appreciated!  > Thank you. Kurt >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18256	From: K Shan	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring

Thank you so much! I have been wracking my brain to figure out how to wire this and was so befuddled. I am in your debt and thank you for this lovely diagram. Many thanks to you!  All the best, Kurt From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:15 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring   Hi Kurt, Thanks for posting the photos. That little beauty is in great shape! Those model electric locomotives built by Kawai were imported by both International and Ken Kidder. Though I did not find an exact wiring diagram on HOSeeker for your specfic model, I did find another diagram from Kawai for a larger electric locomotive model (from the collection of our member Russ Shiel) that does show the wiring in a pictographic schematic that will allow the unit to operate from either two rail or pantograph and rail. Look at the upper right corner of this instruction: http://www.hoseeker.org/kawai/kawaijapaneseelectriclocodiagram.jpg Hope this helps! W. Jay W. In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, K Shan <indianscoutrider2@...> wrote: > > Hello, I have a very old Brass Kawai model train trolley with a pantograph on top and the ability to wire power to the pantograph or wheels. Currently it is in very beautiful condition. The problem I have is the wiring to the motor is confusing and I can't figure out how to wire it so that it runs on wheels. I am willing to send pictures to show my inability to figure it out. I believe it is missing a wire on one side as it has a copper wire like a ground wire. I bought this from someone and he had lost the original wire. Any help would greatly be appreciated!  > Thank you. Kurt >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18257	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps.  A good power pack with the right output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack will not reverse the loco...  It is reversed by a mechanical unit operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. Make sure it is clean and lubed.  After running a while the amperage draw may decrease somewhat. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote:   I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the other listers. Thanks!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18258	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

There are a few "American Flyer" and other S scale Yahoo chat groups. One of them is, "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmericanFlyerTrains/". Have you tried any of them? On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> wrote:   That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps.  A good power pack with the right output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack will not reverse the loco...  It is reversed by a mechanical unit operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. Make sure it is clean and lubed.  After running a while the amperage draw may decrease somewhat. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote:   I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the other listers. Thanks! -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18259	From: Richard White	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

The AF loco is really meant to operate on AC, not the DC as supplied by the power pack. The mechanical reverse unit (E-unit) will operate only with AC.  -Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: chpln1@... Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2   That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps.  A good power pack with the right output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack will not reverse the loco...  It is reversed by a mechanical unit operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. Make sure it is clean and lubed.  After running a while the amperage draw may decrease somewhat. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote:   I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the other listers. Thanks!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18260	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

That's strange.  Mine that I tried it on will sequence on DC. Don Staton in VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 1/30/2012 4:24 PM, Richard White wrote:   The AF loco is really meant to operate on AC, not the DC as supplied by the power pack. The mechanical reverse unit (E-unit) will operate only with AC.  -Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: chpln1@... Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2   That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps.  A good power pack with the right output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack will not reverse the loco...  It is reversed by a mechanical unit operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. Make sure it is clean and lubed.  After running a while the amperage draw may decrease somewhat. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote:   I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the other listers. Thanks!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18261	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Ancient kit model plans

In the midst of some old HO model railroad paper I found a large neatly-folded plan (only) for the following kit:   FAIRCHILD 24, Kit no. 533, A Flying Scale Model- 30" wing span.  Copyright 1938 Peerless Model Airplane Company, Cleveland Ohio USA.   Although off-subject (but not by much), I am offering this free PP to the first person interested.  This avoids a trip to the recycle with all of its attendant guilt. Contact OFF LIST only, please. Denny   Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18262	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

All of mine would sequence on DC also. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/30/12, Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> wrote: > /That's strange. Mine that I tried it on will sequence on DC. > > Don Staton in VA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > / > On 1/30/2012 4:24 PM, Richard White wrote: >> >> The AF loco is really meant to operate on AC, not the DC as supplied >> by the power pack. The mechanical reverse unit (E-unit) will operate >> only with AC. -Richard White >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> From: chpln1@... >> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:46:05 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2 >> >> /That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps. A good power pack with the right >> output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack >> will not reverse the loco... It is reversed by a mechanical unit >> operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption >> or tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. >> >> Make sure it is clean and lubed. After running a while the amperage >> draw may decrease somewhat. >> >> Don Staton in VA. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> / >> On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote: >> >> I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 >> 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but >> have some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to >> power this engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A >> quick check on eBay showed that this particular model doesn't >> command a high price. However, this does take me back to my >> younger(really younger)days and if nothing else, I'll keep it as a >> display piece. >> >> If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore >> the other listers. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18263	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

I always thought AF was AC like Lionel, not DC. I know you can't run a DC loco on AC, not sure about the other way around. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2 > /That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps. A good power pack with the right > output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack > will not reverse the loco... It is reversed by a mechanical unit > operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or > tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. > > Make sure it is clean and lubed. After running a while the amperage > draw may decrease somewhat. > > Don Staton in VA. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > / > On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote: >> >> I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 >> 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have >> some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this >> engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on >> eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. >> However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and >> if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. >> >> If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the >> other listers. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18264	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

Hi Don, The thing about the vintage Lionel and Flyer and even Marx used what was called a "universal wound" motor. They would run on either AC or DC. The whole system does run better on AC than DC but it will run on either. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 1/30/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > I always thought AF was AC like Lionel, not DC. > > I know you can't run a DC loco on AC, not sure about the other way around. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2 > > >> /That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps. A good power pack with the right >> output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack >> will not reverse the loco... It is reversed by a mechanical unit >> operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or >> tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. >> >> Make sure it is clean and lubed. After running a while the amperage >> draw may decrease somewhat. >> >> Don Staton in VA. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> / >> On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote: >>> >>> I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 >>> 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have >>> some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this >>> engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on >>> eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. >>> However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and >>> if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. >>> >>> If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the >>> other listers. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18265	From: trolleynut	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

An AC loco [Lionel, American Flyer, Marx] will run on DC IF, I say again, IF it is a series-wound motor. If the stator coils and the armature coils are in series, it will work, and the E-unit [Lionel term] simply reverses which end of the stator is attached to the armature and which end to one side of the power source. The other side of the power source is attached to one end on the armature coils. Not a "Recommended Practice", but it does work. Jack Priller Hobbs, NM Moderator Here List Co-owner for Marx trains --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I always thought AF was AC like Lionel, not DC. > > I know you can't run a DC loco on AC, not sure about the other way around. > > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> > > > /That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps. A good power pack with the right > > output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack > > will not reverse the loco... It is reversed by a mechanical unit > > operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or > > tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. > > > > Make sure it is clean and lubed. After running a while the amperage > > draw may decrease somewhat. > > > > Don Staton in VA. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > / > > On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote: > >> > >> I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 > >> 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have > >> some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this > >> engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on > >> eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. > >> However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and > >> if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. > >> > >> If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the > >> other listers. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18266	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2

Older Lionel and Flyer have universal motors and will run on either AC or DC but reversing the polarity will not reverse the direction of the motor unless you install bridge rectifiers between the track and the motor.  One writer says the electro-magnetic reverse units will not work on DC but some I have serviced experimenting with DC would operate by turning the current on and off whether AC or DC.  Most coils and plungers in reverse units will work better with DC.  The motors, especially the one in the 300, will definitely run on DC...  But DC will cause any DC activated whistles to blow all of the time because the activating coils stay closed.  Don Staton in VA. -------------------------------------------------------- On 1/30/2012 7:24 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   I always thought AF was AC like Lionel, not DC. I know you can't run a DC loco on AC, not sure about the other way around. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Off topics American Flyer #300 4-4-2 > /That AF loco may draw up to 2 amps. A good power pack with the right > output will power it well but the direction switch on the power pack > will not reverse the loco... It is reversed by a mechanical unit > operating in forward, neutral, reverse, neutral by power interruption or > tutning the power on and off to get it to sequence. > > Make sure it is clean and lubed. After running a while the amperage > draw may decrease somewhat. > > Don Staton in VA. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > / > On 1/28/2012 11:58 PM, Wally wrote: >> >> I know this is off topic but I won an American Flyer S gauge #300 >> 4-4-2 at a banquet. I had AF before I switched to HO in 1955 but have >> some questions. Will one of my HO power packs be able to power this >> engine? Any tricks or quirks I should know about? A quick check on >> eBay showed that this particular model doesn't command a high price. >> However, this does take me back to my younger(really younger)days and >> if nothing else, I'll keep it as a display piece. >> >> If you can help me, please contact me off list so we don't bore the >> other listers. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18267	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Varney

Allen, Varney #2734K L&N Flatcar (black) with 4 Farm Tractors -- Road Number 20001. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18268	From: Jay	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring

Kurt, Thanks, glad the diagram was of help to you. It would not have been possible for me to locate them, though, without fellow member Russ Shiel taking the time to scan and send those original plans to Larry at HOSeeker.org who maintains that invaluable resource for all of us on line. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, K Shan <indianscoutrider2@...> wrote: > > Thank you so much! I have been wracking my brain to figure out how to wire this and was so befuddled. I am in your debt and thank you for this lovely diagram. Many thanks to you!  > All the best, Kurt > > > ________________________________ > From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:15 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Help with Kawai brass wiring > > >   > Hi Kurt, Thanks for posting the photos. That little beauty is in great shape! Those model electric locomotives built by Kawai were imported by both International and Ken Kidder. Though I did not find an exact wiring diagram on HOSeeker for your specfic model, I did find another diagram from Kawai for a larger electric locomotive model (from the collection of our member Russ Shiel) that does show the wiring in a pictographic schematic that will allow the unit to operate from either two rail or pantograph and rail. Look at the upper right corner of this instruction: > > http://www.hoseeker.org/kawai/kawaijapaneseelectriclocodiagram.jpg > > Hope this helps! W. Jay W. > > In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, K Shan <indianscoutrider2@> wrote: > > > > Hello, I have a very old Brass Kawai model train trolley with a pantograph on top and the ability to wire power to the pantograph or wheels. Currently it is in very beautiful condition. The problem I have is the wiring to the motor is confusing and I can't figure out how to wire it so that it runs on wheels. I am willing to send pictures to show my inability to figure it out. I believe it is missing a wire on one side as it has a copper wire like a ground wire. I bought this from someone and he had lost the original wire. Any help would greatly be appreciated!  > > Thank you. Kurt > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18269	From: David	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Many thanks to all for the solid answers and the leads to more info. 1 and 2 - The 2-6-2 is Roundhouse's earliest Prairie, no. 06L-2. There is a parts-sheet  at HOSeeker that gives me the part-numbers and general appearance of all the bits I need to find or fabricate (sigh). As several people mentioned, the same boiler was used on MDC's Atlantic. The Atlantic's big drivers fill the under-boiler gap a bit better than the Prairie's, so I'm assuming it was the original model, and the Prairie was gimmicked up from it. Does anyone know the prototype that MDC used when designing the Atlantic's boiler (if any)? 3. The little switcher is made by New One of Japan for Aristo-Craft, as I suspected and several people verified. If I can get it to run, it's a definite keeper. 4. The diesel is Rivarossi for AHM. I was stunned to learn from Sean, that it was not a re-labeled European engine, but some Italian designer's idea of what an American diesel switcher looks like. The streamlined version he links to is even more mind-frazzling. 5. Okay, Mantua hopper. I was hoping for something a bit more exotic - Ulrich or Lindberg or Varney, maybe. I never did find out who Evans is... Thanks again for all the good info and good will. -- D   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > I found these > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t> HO oldies > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola > folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. > > I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I > can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the > folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. > > Photo #1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/115\ > 8867225/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, > brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic > hangers. Motor is missing. > > The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate > compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels > are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab > does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high > headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn > Line? Bowser? > > Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be > much appreciated. > > Photo #3 - A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and > cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders. Appliques > - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red > printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher > imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it > was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A > friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil > sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty > tender 0-4-0? > > #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO > in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think > they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a > military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI > Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or > German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" > locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks > original. Anybody have further info? > > #5 - Operating Hopper Car. Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their > weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is > red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? > > Thanks to all who provide help. > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18270	From: Glenn	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Both locos were ATSF prototypes.  Prairie 1010 is in the Calif. State RR Museum. gj   From: David Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   Many thanks to all for the solid answers and the leads to more info. 1 and 2 - The 2-6-2 is Roundhouse's earliest Prairie, no. 06L-2. There is a parts-sheet  at HOSeeker that gives me the part-numbers and general appearance of all the bits I need to find or fabricate (sigh). As several people mentioned, the same boiler was used on MDC's Atlantic. The Atlantic's big drivers fill the under-boiler gap a bit better than the Prairie's, so I'm assuming it was the original model, and the Prairie was gimmicked up from it. Does anyone know the prototype that MDC used when designing the Atlantic's boiler (if any)? 3. The little switcher is made by New One of Japan for Aristo-Craft, as I suspected and several people verified. If I can get it to run, it's a definite keeper. 4. The diesel is Rivarossi for AHM. I was stunned to learn from Sean, that it was not a re-labeled European engine, but some Italian designer's idea of what an American diesel switcher looks like. The streamlined version he links to is even more mind-frazzling. 5. Okay, Mantua hopper. I was hoping for something a bit more exotic - Ulrich or Lindberg or Varney, maybe. I never did find out who Evans is... Thanks again for all the good info and good will. -- D   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > I found these > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t> HO oldies > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/lis\ > t?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> (David's Vintage Junkarola > folder) at the Plano (Dallas area) train show. > > I'm pretty good at the lower-priced locos from the '60s and '70s, but I > can't ID the two steamers. I started to do a web search, but thought the > folks here might enjoy helping to ID them. > > Photo #1 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1644488581/pic/115\ > 8867225/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > and #2 - a mystery 2-6-2, diecast boiler with backhead, plastic cab, > brass-rimmed drivers (unplated), nickeled rods and valve gear w/plastic > hangers. Motor is missing. > > The loco has been stripped; the boiler has fitting-holes for a separate > compressor, piping, tank and handrails. The leading and trailing wheels > are plastic w/pointed metal axles; they may be non-original. The cab > does seem to fit properly and I'd guess it's original. The high > headlight and horizontal slat pilot make me think PRR, so maybe Penn > Line? Bowser? > > Any info or leads to photos of the engine in original shape would be > much appreciated. > > Photo #3 - A real cutie of a 19th-Century 0-4-0. Diecast boiler and > cab, cab-mounted motor, separate brass whistle and cylinders. Appliques > - CB&Q on the cab and number on the headlight - are gold foil with red > printing, reminiscent of the big Japanese-made old-time tank-switcher > imported by (I believe) Polk's and Aristo-Craft, and maybe AHM. Later it > was diecast, I think. There was also a plastic version from Life-Like. A > friend had one of the early brass ones as his first HO loco; its foil > sticker said "Uncle Sum." Yes, "Sum." So who made/marketed this pretty > tender 0-4-0? > > #4 - Siderod Diesel Switcher. This one I recognize. When I got into HO > in 1962, AHM was importing these in the hope that somebody would think > they looked "American enough." They were in trainsets, including a > military set with Minitanks on the flatcars, called the "Jumpin' GI > Jeep." I think they were early Rivarossi products; perhaps Italian or > German prototype. Body is reminiscent of the early Egger-Bahn HOn30" > locos. The skirting is broken on mine. The red/white paint looks > original. Anybody have further info? > > #5 - Operating Hopper Car. Diecast drop-doors swing closed by their > weight; no springs or catches. Trucks and couplers not original. Body is > red plastic apparently relettered. Anyone know who made it? > > Thanks to all who provide help. > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18271	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Reclaimation suggestions needed

I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. What ideas might some in the group have for this? I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18272	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

Mike, Funny you're doing that. I recently started rebuilding a Walthers prewar pullman that was in terrible shape. The wood floor was cracked and rotted badly, the wood roof was dinged and had some chip out in one corner, the sides were bent up and dog eared in a few corners. So far it is looking to be a miracle of restoration. Looking good so far! Not finished yet however. Now, for the metal sides, I am assuming these are the somewhat later ones that did not have a lip that screws went upwards through into the wood floor? I think they did away with the bottom lip when they added rivet detail. For those cars I have had very good luck with Pliobond, obtained at Ace hardware. Someone recently suggested Barge Cement, supposedly available at Ace as well (though the store in downtown Waukegan does not carry it, nor have the sales people heard of it!). Pliobond works if you follow the directions to the letter. Though it is a more syrupy glue, you do have to shake the tube first for best results, then apply it, and let it sit for a minute or so, THEN attach parts to be glued! If you have warped roofs (This is more common with the NPP plastic roofs Walthers used later, but wood roofs can be warped too), I suggest drilling a hole through the floor and upwards, into the underside of the roof. Then run a screw to hold everything tight. Generally you an tighten the screw enough to remove minor warping and let compression of the parts hold the sides in too. I hope this all makes sense - my back condition (Degenerative disc) and arthritic knee are hurting badly tonight, and I Have nerve pain in the left leg. So I am pretty much under the influence of my pain meds right now. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 1/31/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Reclaimation suggestions needed To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012, 9:41 PM   I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. What ideas might some in the group have for this? I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18273	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

Mike; "Super glue" has no place in Walthers cars. I do virtually everything with contact cement or, lately, there's a product called "Surehold Multi-Purpose Sureflex Adhesive" that I found at, believe it or not, Walgreens. Greatest stuff since Ceramcoat paints. That will do all wood to metal and metal to metal joints. For wood to wood, white or yellow glue, and for the window glazing to the inside of the sides, Aileen's tacky glue. Prior to the late 50's, a lot of these cars were put together with Ambroid, which by now is usually quite brittle and breaks apart quite easily. If you can get the roof off, take out the window glazing and strip the car with lacquer thinner or MEK, if it disassembles itself in the process, all the better. I wouldn't mess with blasting, you stand a good chance of wrecking the die cast parts. Why don't you bring them over to the house one evening (you know where I live hint)? We can go through them and see what's the best way to do it on a car by car basis. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <VintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Reclaimation suggestions needed > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and > need redoing. > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate > and the end castings is the most common repair. > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect > SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the > wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different > solution than the tin to casting joints. > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten > up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the > paint and decals. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18274	From: David	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Thanks, Glenn. -- D --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Both locos were ATSF prototypes. Prairie 1010 is in the Calif. State RR Museum. > gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18275	From: Jay	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation/Glue Suggestions - Why not "Goo?"

Hi Mike and All, For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny (or possibly I don't cap my open tubes tightly enough, lol). In your case though, with models that are already partially assembled in which you wish to reinforce loose sections, the rubber based adhesives might not flow well into the joints, as they are intended to be applied as contact adhesives. If you can get the assembly square, a gap-filling super type glue might work, but I'm not a huge fan of them in this case as they can also run though those loose fiiting joints and harden on the exterior surface causing clean up problems as well. Super-glued joints can later crack sometimes when stressed by a number of factors, too. You might try a quick setting expoxy from the inside of those joints, though if the metal has a bit of oil or dirt on them the joint may not be as solid as it could be, as compared to being applied to a totally clean surface. Which point applies to most other adhesives, even the gap filling super-type glues. So even though not your original intention, it might be a best bet in the long run to "re-kit" those cars, especially if originally assembled with an Ambroid-type cement. That way you could scrape off most or all of the cement, clean then of oils, dust, etc. and start fresh as Steve mentioned as well. As far as sandblasting, keeping it away from the wood, removing the paint from the tinplate sides withut removing the tin plating and having a light enough touch to keep from roughening the soft cast metal parts requires a much lighter touch than mine! If you ultimately re-kit the cars, dunking the metal parts in paint remover for a while is much easier for me. As an aside, I have a previously partially assembled, motorized Walthers MU car in which the builder did not trust any glue to secure the wood floor to the tinplated sides - instead he soldered brass angle along the lower legnth of each side, allowing for the thickness of the wood floor. He then attached the wood floor to the underside of the predrilled angles with small wood screws from the inside of the car body - still allowing the easy attachment of underbody details to the clear all wood bottom! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Mike; > > "Super glue" has no place in Walthers cars. I do virtually everything with > contact cement or, lately, there's a product called "Surehold Multi-Purpose > Sureflex Adhesive" that I found at, believe it or not, Walgreens. Greatest > stuff since Ceramcoat paints. That will do all wood to metal and metal to > metal joints. For wood to wood, white or yellow glue, and for the window > glazing to the inside of the sides, Aileen's tacky glue. Prior to the late > 50's, a lot of these cars were put together with Ambroid, which by now is > usually quite brittle and breaks apart quite easily. > > If you can get the roof off, take out the window glazing and strip the car > with lacquer thinner or MEK, if it disassembles itself in the process, all > the better. I wouldn't mess with blasting, you stand a good chance of > wrecking the die cast parts. > > Why don't you bring them over to the house one evening (you know where I > live hint)? We can go through them and see what's the best way to do it on > a car by car basis. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> > To: <VintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:41 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Reclaimation suggestions needed > > > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and > > need redoing. > > > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate > > and the end castings is the most common repair. > > > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect > > SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the > > wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different > > solution than the tin to casting joints. > > > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten > > up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the > > paint and decals. > > > > thanks, > > Mike Bauers > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18276	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

Hi Dave, That's why this group is here...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: David <dnhelber@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated   Many thanks to all for the solid answers and the leads to more info. 1 and 2 - The 2-6-2 is Roundhouse's earliest Prairie, no. 06L-2. There is a parts-sheet  at HOSeeker that gives me the part-numbers and general appearance of all the bits I need to find or fabricate (sigh). As several people mentioned, the same boiler was used on MDC's Atlantic. The Atlantic's big drivers fill the under-boiler gap a bit better than the Prairie's, so I'm assuming it was the original model, and the Prairie was gimmicked up from it. Does anyone know the prototype that MDC used when designing the Atlantic's boiler (if any)? 3. The little switcher is made by New One of Japan for Aristo-Craft, as I suspected and several people verified. If I can get it to run, it's a definite keeper. 4. The diesel is Rivarossi for AHM. I was stunned to learn from Sean, that it was not a re-labeled European engine, but some Italian designer's idea of what an American diesel switcher looks like. The streamlined version he links to is even more mind-frazzling. 5. Okay, Mantua hopper. I was hoping for something a bit more exotic - Ulrich or Lindberg or Varney, maybe. I never did find out who Evans is... Thanks again for all the good info and good will. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18277	From: Alan	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond Alan (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18278	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo.  I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock.  Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo.  I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in.  This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years.  In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo.  Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed.  The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long.  Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted.  I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications.  On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it.  As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say.  But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo.  I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on. I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars.  Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand.  I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk.  I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works.  Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement.  Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard.  You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted.  Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way. To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful.  Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: albyrno@... Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed   I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond Alan (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18279	From: Jay	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

Hello Vic B., Thanks for the interesting additional comments about Goo and the warnings about not using it on plastics or where its vapors or the later long term outgassing could affect plastics (like the later plastic versions of Walther's heavyweight kit roofs). I should have added that information. I guess it is that very slow, but continual outgassing of solvent vapors that contributes to its flexibility with a comparitively longer holding life and higher resistance to shear forces than basic Ambroid or super-type glues. But it still has a finite life. And completely agree with your additional comments on cleaning the parts thoroughly no mater what glue is used. Though I have had good luck with Goo in the past, I also work frequently with epoxy and may reconsider and go that route in building a new consist of Walthers MU cars just acquired (see future post). Good to have this conversation and information beforehand, eh? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo. I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock. Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo. I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in. This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years. In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo. Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed. The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long. Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted. I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications. On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it. As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say. But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo. I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on.I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars. Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand. I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk. I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works. Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement. Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard. You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted. Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way.To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful. Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation.Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: albyrno@... > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond > > Alan > > > > (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! > > > > Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > > > > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > > > > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > > > > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > > > > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Mike Bauers > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18280	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

Walthers Goo slogan is "Fix it forever".   Now we have a rough idea how long "forever" is.   I also used have used it over the years and it seemed to me that after a very long time it sort of got a little crystalline and certainly no longer flexible.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed   Hello Vic B., Thanks for the interesting additional comments about Goo and the warnings about not using it on plastics or where its vapors or the later long term outgassing could affect plastics (like the later plastic versions of Walther's heavyweight kit roofs). I should have added that information. I guess it is that very slow, but continual outgassing of solvent vapors that contributes to its flexibility with a comparitively longer holding life and higher resistance to shear forces than basic Ambroid or super-type glues. But it still has a finite life. And completely agree with your additional comments on cleaning the parts thoroughly no mater what glue is used. Though I have had good luck with Goo in the past, I also work frequently with epoxy and may reconsider and go that route in building a new consist of Walthers MU cars just acquired (see future post). Good to have this conversation and information beforehand, eh? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo. I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock. Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo. I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in. This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years. In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo. Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed. The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long. Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted. I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications. On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it. As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say. But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo. I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on.I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars. Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand. I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk. I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works. Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement. Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard. You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted. Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way.To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful. Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation.Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: albyrno@... > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond > > Alan > > > > (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! > > > > Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > > > > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > > > > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > > > > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > > > > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Mike Bauers > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18281	From: Glenn	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

I have had Goo fail over time--example--some O Scale Walthers Hiawatha cars--hac several cast tanks gooed to the center sills--over several years these sagged and eventually fell off. gj -----Original Message----- From: Jay Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:05 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed Hello Vic B., Thanks for the interesting additional comments about Goo and the warnings about not using it on plastics or where its vapors or the later long term outgassing could affect plastics (like the later plastic versions of Walther's heavyweight kit roofs). I should have added that information. I guess it is that very slow, but continual outgassing of solvent vapors that contributes to its flexibility with a comparitively longer holding life and higher resistance to shear forces than basic Ambroid or super-type glues. But it still has a finite life. And completely agree with your additional comments on cleaning the parts thoroughly no mater what glue is used. Though I have had good luck with Goo in the past, I also work frequently with epoxy and may reconsider and go that route in building a new consist of Walthers MU cars just acquired (see future post). Good to have this conversation and information beforehand, eh? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over > an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo. I operate > regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have > about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large > railroad with LOTS of rolling stock. Most of the house type cars have > weights glued in using Walthers Goo. I am one of they guys that gets to > repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things > come in. This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am > a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years. In the past > couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler > boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers > Goo. Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so > I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I > have heard of them getting deformed. The other problem is that if Goo has > not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay > together very long. Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that > eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you > get things re-kitted. I have decided to only use Goo for temporary > adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely > not for any rolling stock applications. On the other hand, some folks > swear by Goo and will always continue to use it. As far as Pliobond, > since I haven't used it long term, I can't say. But, I do very much like > the way it works much better than Goo. I don't mind using it on trackwork > at all, but may try Barge cement later on.I use CA a lot for metal to wood > details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers > metal sided passenger cars. Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a > good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good > brand. I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute > epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk. I now use a REAL epoxy by > Loctite brand and really like the way it works. Personally, I would use > that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge > cement. Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard. You can activate > it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is > a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted. Google some of the > handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may > be a good way.To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it > shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts > be careful. Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts > cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that > stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation.Good luck and > regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: albyrno@... > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you > could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice > cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it > in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond > > Alan > > > > (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to > tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally > recommended - Walthers "GOO"! > > > > Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that > Goo is a tad less runny) > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built > > and need redoing. > > > > > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate > > and the end castings is the most common repair. > > > > > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect > > SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to > > the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a > > different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > > > > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > > > > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten > > up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the > > paint and decals. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Mike Bauers > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18282	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

Has anyone here ever used a Devcon product called "Weldit"? I have used it extensively in basswood and balsa modeling with good results. Once I used it to glue a Kadee #4 coupler box to a metal Mantua frame. Four years, and countless hours of running later, that coupler box is still holding strong! I do like it for gluing basswood used in structures. I think it is basically a five minute epoxy. My disadvantage here, is that I am 27, and been into vintage HO scale for only eight years, so I have not had an opportunity to see long-term effects firsthand. Certainly not as the more experienced hobbyists of this group have! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:08 PM   I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo.  I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock.  Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo.  I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in.  This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years.  In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo.  Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed.  The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long.  Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted.  I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications.  On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it.  As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say.  But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo.  I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on. I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars.  Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand.  I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk.  I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works.  Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement.  Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard.  You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted.  Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way. To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful.  Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: albyrno@... Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed   I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond Alan (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18283	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

At this point, I'm thinking of using ACC to tack the metal parts together and 'welding' the seams with a weld-seam of 5-10 minute epoxy. I'm still open to more suggestions. The ideas flowing in this thread are great ! Mike Bauers On Feb 2, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Has anyone here ever used a Devcon product called "Weldit"? > > I have used it extensively in basswood and balsa modeling with good results. Once I used it to glue a Kadee #4 coupler box to a metal Mantua frame. Four years, and countless hours of running later, that coupler box is still holding strong! > > I do like it for gluing basswood used in structures. I think it is basically a five minute epoxy. > > My disadvantage here, is that I am 27, and been into vintage HO scale for only eight years, so I have not had an opportunity to see long-term effects firsthand. Certainly not as the more experienced hobbyists of this group hav.................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18284	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

That sounds good and I wish I can tell you something better.  I have a 40 year old caboose that I scratchbuilt with the Kadee 5&10 coupler box still on and in use.  Never had a problem.  The bad part is I cannot remember what I used to glue them on! :o)  I do remember back then that for special gluing, I used 2 items,  an early version of CA called Eastman 910 and a 2 part epoxy called Epoxy Patch.  I wish I could still get that stuff.  the new CA's, even from Loctite are not near as good as Eastman 910, but I think the real 2 part epoxies are still pretty good.  I never had much luck with the 5 minute epoxy. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:49:52 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed   Has anyone here ever used a Devcon product called "Weldit"? I have used it extensively in basswood and balsa modeling with good results. Once I used it to glue a Kadee #4 coupler box to a metal Mantua frame. Four years, and countless hours of running later, that coupler box is still holding strong! I do like it for gluing basswood used in structures. I think it is basically a five minute epoxy. My disadvantage here, is that I am 27, and been into vintage HO scale for only eight years, so I have not had an opportunity to see long-term effects firsthand. Certainly not as the more experienced hobbyists of this group have! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:08 PM   I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo.  I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock.  Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo.  I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in.  This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years.  In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo.  Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed.  The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long.  Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted.  I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications.  On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it.  As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say.  But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo.  I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on. I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars.  Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand.  I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk.  I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works.  Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement.  Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard.  You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted.  Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way. To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful.  Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: albyrno@... Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed   I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond Alan (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

When it comes to Epoxy, my favorite is good old-fashioned JB Weld. I've even used it instead of filler putty. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:39 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed That sounds good and I wish I can tell you something better. I have a 40 year old caboose that I scratchbuilt with the Kadee 5&10 coupler box still on and in use. Never had a problem. The bad part is I cannot remember what I used to glue them on! :o) I do remember back then that for special gluing, I used 2 items, an early version of CA called Eastman 910 and a 2 part epoxy called Epoxy Patch. I wish I could still get that stuff. the new CA's, even from Loctite are not near as good as Eastman 910, but I think the real 2 part epoxies are still pretty good. I never had much luck with the 5 minute epoxy. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:49:52 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed Has anyone here ever used a Devcon product called "Weldit"? I have used it extensively in basswood and balsa modeling with good results. Once I used it to glue a Kadee #4 coupler box to a metal Mantua frame. Four years, and countless hours of running later, that coupler box is still holding strong! I do like it for gluing basswood used in structures. I think it is basically a five minute epoxy. My disadvantage here, is that I am 27, and been into vintage HO scale for only eight years, so I have not had an opportunity to see long-term effects firsthand. Certainly not as the more experienced hobbyists of this group have! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:08 PM I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo. I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock. Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo. I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in. This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years. In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo. Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed. The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long. Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted. I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications. On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it. As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say. But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo. I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on.I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars. Maybe a thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand. I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk. I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works. Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement. Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard. You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted. Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way.To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful. Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation.Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: albyrno@... Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond Alan (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and > need redoing. > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate > and the end castings is the most common repair. > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect > SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the > wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different > solution than the tin to casting joints. > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten > up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the > paint and decals. > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18286	From: Dick	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

BTW, MDC at some point offered an Atlantic kit with a different boiler. I have one from a kit I bought new that was factory prepainted SP and had a short vandy tender. I don't know where the box is so I can't give a kit number. That Atlantic kit had the cylinders that canted inward. It is a chunkier boiler with a different dome arrangement than the one in my MDC Prairie kit. Interestingly, the mounting holes all line up so either boiler fits on the Atlantic frame. Both boilers have the MDC logo on the inside. Dick Moessner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > That's why this group is here... > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: David <dnhelber@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:48 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated > > > As several people mentioned, the same boiler was used on MDC's Atlantic. The Atlantic's big drivers fill the under-boiler gap a bit better than the Prairie's, so I'm assuming it was the original model, and the Prairie was gimmicked up from it. > > Does anyone know the prototype that MDC used when designing the Atlantic's boiler (if any)? > > ... > Thanks again for all the good info and good will. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18287	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Help on windows

Picked up a very nicely built Ambroid Heritage PRR 4 wheel caboose which is all done except paint. However there isn't any 'glass' in the windows. The cupola roof comes off so I can get at the inside there but not the inside and end windows. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18288	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

They also made a 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler that fits that description (except for wheel arrangement), too. I have one of those... somewhere. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 2/3/12, Dick <rb_train@...> wrote: From: Dick <rb_train@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 3, 2012, 9:31 AM   BTW, MDC at some point offered an Atlantic kit with a different boiler. I have one from a kit I bought new that was factory prepainted SP and had a short vandy tender. I don't know where the box is so I can't give a kit number. That Atlantic kit had the cylinders that canted inward. It is a chunkier boiler with a different dome arrangement than the one in my MDC Prairie kit. Interestingly, the mounting holes all line up so either boiler fits on the Atlantic frame. Both boilers have the MDC logo on the inside. Dick Moessner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > That's why this group is here... > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: David <dnhelber@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:48 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated > > > As several people mentioned, the same boiler was used on MDC's Atlantic. The Atlantic's big drivers fill the under-boiler gap a bit better than the Prairie's, so I'm assuming it was the original model, and the Prairie was gimmicked up from it. > > Does anyone know the prototype that MDC used when designing the Atlantic's boiler (if any)? > > ... > Thanks again for all the good info and good will. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18289	From: Charles	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Help on windows

You could use real glass such as from Sierra Models: http://www.sierrascalemodels.com/glass.htm Or I suppose the usual "clear acetate". To get the glass inside from the outside, you may be able to tilt the glas and slip it through the opening diagonally, then straighten it up and "pull" it against the inside after putting some cement on whatever as needed. (A little like playing the electronic buzzing "Operation" game of years ago.) You could put something sticky on the end of a stick to hold it. But I'm guessing it would probably be better to use a little miniature vacuum wand like one of these from Micro-Mark: http://www.micromark.com/model-pal-vacuum-pickup-tool,7851.html http://www.micromark.com/hobby-pal-vacuum-pickup-tool,7954.html (I don't have either of these myself, but I've just talked myself into getting one!) I have also heard of using a liquid that just forms a membrane (Testor's window maker), but I wouldn't hold out much hope for good results for this application. Here is some of that stuff... http://mfpilot.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40_66&products_id=1058 Here's another called "Micro Glaze": http://www.castyouranchorhobby.com/item--Brush-On-Window-Glass--46013 Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, acace@... wrote: > > Picked up a very nicely built Ambroid Heritage PRR 4 wheel caboose which > is all done except paint. > However there isn't any 'glass' in the windows. The cupola roof comes > off so I can get at the inside there > but not the inside and end windows. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dick Waite >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18290	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Drive Belts for Revell

A friend recently found an old Revel Diesel switcher in his attic- lost for years.   It is in sore need of a drive bet(from the motor shaft pulley to the gearbox).   Any luck out there?   Thanks in advance   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18291	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Help on windows

If the windows are small enough (which I believe they are) you can glaze them with Micro-scale's "Mikro Krystal Klear" which is a glue like substance you stretch across the windows with a toothpick and let dry clear. It will span an opening up to as much as 3/8" wide. Now that's assuming you like to waste money. For about the same price as a couple of 1 oz. jars of that you can go to Wal-Mart and buy a pint of "Mod Podge" gloss, which appears to be exactly the same stuff. You can also make windows the same way with "Aileen's tacky glue", and in a real pinch, Elmer's glue. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <acace@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 1:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Help on windows > Picked up a very nicely built Ambroid Heritage PRR 4 wheel caboose which > is all done except paint. > However there isn't any 'glass' in the windows. The cupola roof comes > off so I can get at the inside there > but not the inside and end windows. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dick Waite > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18292	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated

In the 1970's and 80's (actually right up to the Horizon takeover) MDC had their 4-4-2 and 2-6-2 chassis, as well as a 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 with "Harriman" style boilers (which is what you had) and "PRR" boilers (with belpaire fireboxes). I believe almost any MDC boiler will fit any MDC chassis (with the obvious exception of the switchers and geared locomotives) just to minimize the amount of tooling required. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick" <rb_train@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 9:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated BTW, MDC at some point offered an Atlantic kit with a different boiler. I have one from a kit I bought new that was factory prepainted SP and had a short vandy tender. I don't know where the box is so I can't give a kit number. That Atlantic kit had the cylinders that canted inward. It is a chunkier boiler with a different dome arrangement than the one in my MDC Prairie kit. Interestingly, the mounting holes all line up so either boiler fits on the Atlantic frame. Both boilers have the MDC logo on the inside. Dick Moessner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > That's why this group is here... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: David <dnhelber@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:48 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery Oldies - ID help appreciated > > > As several people mentioned, the same boiler was used on MDC's Atlantic. > The Atlantic's big drivers fill the under-boiler gap a bit better than the > Prairie's, so I'm assuming it was the original model, and the Prairie was > gimmicked up from it. > > Does anyone know the prototype that MDC used when designing the Atlantic's > boiler (if any)? > > ... > Thanks again for all the good info and good will. > > -- D > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18293	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Drive Belts for Revell

As I recall the one I had—it is an “O-Ring”—try Ace Hardware--gj   From: Fred Hultberg Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Drive Belts for Revell     A friend recently found an old Revel Diesel switcher in his attic- lost for years.   It is in sore need of a drive bet(from the motor shaft pulley to the gearbox).   Any luck out there?   Thanks in advance   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18294	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Vintage HO trains

Don: I have been Building and collecting.HO Scale since the early 60's. So the metal Varney, Mantua, Athearn, Modeldiecasting, Ulrich, Ambroid,  and other now vintage models have always been the normal for me. With Ebay, I keep finding more. My wife thinks I have way too many., probably every guys problem. Finding your site gives me hope there are other guys out there who can help me identify some unknown manufacturers of cars I have. Also I would like to find a list all the types and road names of The roundhouse metal line. .Enough of me. Time to explore your site. Phil E.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18295	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID - early MDC question

I've only picked up on part of this, but this thread has brought a question to my mind: I've got an un-completed MDC "Old Timer," 2-8-0 sitting downstairs. I've had it for probably 25 years -- maybe more. I still remember starting it then somehow becoming disenchanted with the fact, (as I remember), that the side rod crank pins were merely plastic pegs. It seemed to me if I was going to put much effort into the locomotive, I'd darned sure like decent metal pins. I think that is when I quit working on it. Funny how the years go by on things. One thing I had gotten it for is the appearance of that particular locomotive. I think it has nice proportions. Now that I've aged myself, (ha), I'm re-thinking the merits if my original complaint and am thinking that the life-span of those plastic pins may well, indeed, outlive the parts my own body walks around with, so maybe I should just go back to work. The real question for this List is, do any you recall any upgrades you may have used for these MDC kits??? And I like Don's comments about interchangeability of boilers, etc. That is good to remember for the next train show gleanings. Cheers, Dennis Odessa/Ritzville, WA At 04:05 PM 2/3/2012, you wrote: >In the 1970's and 80's (actually right up to the Horizon takeover) MDC had >their 4-4-2 and 2-6-2 chassis, as well as a 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 with "Harriman" >style boilers (which is what you had) and "PRR" boilers (with belpaire >fireboxes). > >I believe almost any MDC boiler will fit any MDC chassis (with the obvious >exception of the switchers and geared locomotives) just to minimize the >amount of tooling required. > >Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18296	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Mystery cars.

I have a couple of reefers with paper or card stock sides on thin metal. It talks to me when i tap it on it lightly. These are definitely early cars because of the trucks and couplers they came with. I have been in the hobby since 1952. Anyone out there know the manufacturer of these cars? Thanks, Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18297	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Die cast ends, roofwalk, and underframe, sheet metal roof and floor?? Mantua. -----Original Message----- From: pjentingh Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:25 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery cars. I have a couple of reefers with paper or card stock sides on thin metal. It talks to me when i tap it on it lightly. These are definitely early cars because of the trucks and couplers they came with. I have been in the hobby since 1952. Anyone out there know the manufacturer of these cars? Thanks, Phil ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18298	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Mantua made reefers that has brass sides and paper overlays. The ends and floor at least were die cast, too. I am guessing the couplers are the Mantua loop couplers then? -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 2/3/12, pjentingh <pjentingh@...> wrote: From: pjentingh <pjentingh@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery cars. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 3, 2012, 7:25 PM   I have a couple of reefers with paper or card stock sides on thin metal. It talks to me when i tap it on it lightly. These are definitely early cars because of the trucks and couplers they came with. I have been in the hobby since 1952. Anyone out there know the manufacturer of these cars? Thanks, Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18299	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Glenn beat me to the punch of guessing Mantua, by less than a minute! -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 2/3/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 3, 2012, 7:33 PM   Mantua made reefers that has brass sides and paper overlays. The ends and floor at least were die cast, too. I am guessing the couplers are the Mantua loop couplers then? -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 2/3/12, pjentingh <pjentingh@...> wrote: From: pjentingh <pjentingh@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery cars. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 3, 2012, 7:25 PM   I have a couple of reefers with paper or card stock sides on thin metal. It talks to me when i tap it on it lightly. These are definitely early cars because of the trucks and couplers they came with. I have been in the hobby since 1952. Anyone out there know the manufacturer of these cars? Thanks, Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18300	From: RalphB	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Hobbytown plastic RS-3 - it runs

A little over a year ago I won two auctions on eBay; included was a Hobbytown of Boston plastic RS-3 kit and the mechanisms for powering two of them, a 4-axle RS-3 and a 6-axle RSD-4/5. Problem was that there was only one motor, but I was able to get one from another list member last month. I'd already been corresponding with Howard Mosley at Bear Locomotive about parts that I needed, most notably an insulating spacer and universal drive shafts to replace the neoprene tubing between the trucks. Well, I got all the parts and I put the 4-axle chassis together tonight. I hooked up a couple of leads from a power pack to the motor and it works! I still have to put in the wire from the motor to the insulated truck, and I also have the 6-axle chassis to work on, but now I know how its done. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18301	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Thanks for the feedback. Any idea what years these cars were built ? Thanks, Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18302	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Fw: [StillGrumpy] Lew English has died

From another list. ----- Original Message ----- \Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 8:04 PM Subject: [StillGrumpy] Lew English has died > From www.bowser-trains.com: > > It is with the utmost sadness that we report that Lew English, Sr, > co-founder of Bowser Manufacturing Company passed away on Feb 3, > 2012. He was 93 years old. Lew is survived by his wife Shirlee, four > children , Susan, Nancy, Lew Jr., and Lee, and ten grandchildren, and > fourteen great great grand children and 3 great great great > grandchildren. Lew was the inspiration for what is now the Bowser > Manufacturing Company of Montoursville, PA. He was one of the pioneers > in the model train business and was entered into the Model > Railroading Hall of Fame just a few years ago. In 1961, Lew and > Shirlee began the business in their basement in their home in Muncy, > Pennsylvania, when they purchased not only the name but several steam > engine kits from Bill Bowser in Redlands, California. Lew will not > only be missed by his family but by all of the industry contacts that > he made throughout his career. Bowser Manufacturing will continue > under the direction of Lee K. English, current Bowser CEO. > > Bowser Mfg and English's Model Railroad will be closed Feb 8th for the > Memorial Service. > > -- > Bob Netzlof

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18303	From: Dick	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID - early MDC question

Years ago I upgraded an MDC OT mogul, low driver version, by replacing brass rimmed MDC drivers with Mantua drivers and crankpins. I think I had to open up the holes in the MDC side rods. I put in NWSL gears at the same time. It worked out well. As I recall the Mantua drivers were the size used in their switchers. And the low driver mogul has the same size drivers as your OT 2-8-0. Dick Moessner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote: > > I've only picked up on part of this, but this thread has brought a > question to my mind: I've got an un-completed MDC "Old Timer," 2-8-0 > sitting downstairs. I've had it for probably 25 years -- maybe > more. I still remember starting it then somehow becoming > disenchanted with the fact, (as I remember), that the side rod crank > pins were merely plastic pegs. It seemed to me if I was going to put > much effort into the locomotive, I'd darned sure like decent metal > pins. I think that is when I quit working on it. Funny how the > years go by on things. > > One thing I had gotten it for is the appearance of that particular > locomotive. I think it has nice proportions. Now that I've aged > myself, (ha), I'm re-thinking the merits if my original complaint and > am thinking that the life-span of those plastic pins may well, > indeed, outlive the parts my own body walks around with, so maybe I > should just go back to work. > > The real question for this List is, do any you recall any upgrades > you may have used for these MDC kits??? And I like Don's comments > about interchangeability of boilers, etc. That is good to remember > for the next train show gleanings. > > Cheers, > Dennis > Odessa/Ritzville, WA > > > > > At 04:05 PM 2/3/2012, you wrote: > >In the 1970's and 80's (actually right up to the Horizon takeover) MDC had > >their 4-4-2 and 2-6-2 chassis, as well as a 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 with "Harriman" > >style boilers (which is what you had) and "PRR" boilers (with belpaire > >fireboxes). > > > >I believe almost any MDC boiler will fit any MDC chassis (with the obvious > >exception of the switchers and geared locomotives) just to minimize the > >amount of tooling required. > > > >Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18304	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO trains

Phil, Check out the MDC/Roundhouse metal car spreadsheet in the files section; they're all there. Ray F. Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18305	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Hi Phil - If they are Mantua, they were issued about 1946 - I remember buying them and building them as my first venture into HO. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: P Entingh <pjentingh@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars.   Thanks for the feedback. Any idea what years these cars were built ? Thanks, Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18306	From: Glenn	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Not necessarily—Mantua was building these cars at least as early as 1938—with time out for war work—and may have been making them even earlier. I did a cl;inic on them back in 1914 at PCR.   I even have some kits.    glenn joesten   From: estabrook@... Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: estabrook@... Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars.   Hi Phil - If they are Mantua, they were issued about 1946 - I remember buying them and building them as my first venture into HO. Reed     ---- Original Message ---- From: P Entingh <pjentingh@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars.   Thanks for the feedback. Any idea what years these cars were built ? Thanks, Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18307	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: : Seeking information

> > > I don't collect freight cars and have been ask questions by a friend. > It pertains to items made by Cliff Line, Devore, GMC (General Model > CO. ,Authenticast and Classic Trains. My questions are did any of > theses companies buy out or change there names to any other listed > here. Also did any of these produce some of the same products > especially if they changed hands. Thanks in advance. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18308	From: Wally	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Gilbert side rod diesel

I'm thinning my collection to concentrate on HO interubans, street cars and related equipment so this piece is available and I wanted to offer it to the group before I list it on eBay. Pictures are in my folder. The frame has "gilbert" cast on the frame and it's very good condition except that some previous owner must have glued signs on the cab. The glue spots are visible and it now has Kadee coulpers which I'm sure were not original. It runs very well and I think is may be somewhat rare as I have never another. I'd like to get $50 plus postage. If you're interested, please contact me off line.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18309	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Hi glenn joesten, You gave a clinic in 1914? How old are you? -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18310	From: Glenn	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Not that old—I am 70—I got a double character in that date and erased the wrong one. The clinic was in 1994.    My fingers are too big for the keyboard.    From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:47 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars.   Hi glenn joesten, You gave a clinic in 1914? How old are you? -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18311	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Car list spread sheets

I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18312	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

Too bad is was just that! We vintage guys (I'm 70 too) would have loved to know the secret. Sigh! On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:   Not that old—I am 70—I got a double character in that date and erased the wrong one. The clinic was in 1994.    My fingers are too big for the keyboard.    From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:47 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars.   Hi glenn joesten, You gave a clinic in 1914? How old are you? -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18313	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed

If you are gluing to wood, any 2 part epoxy should work just fine. The longer the epoxy takes to set up, the stronger the bond. I worked at Eastman Kodak Co in a research group for 13 years. We had the corporate adhesives research group next door. If you are bonding metal or plastic, ie a plastic coupler pocket, rough the surface up with a bit of sand paper or a small file to give the adhesive a little bit of bite. Phil Entingh --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > That sounds good and I wish I can tell you something better. I have a 40 year old caboose that I scratchbuilt with the Kadee 5&10 coupler box still on and in use. Never had a problem. The bad part is I cannot remember what I used to glue them on! :o) > I do remember back then that for special gluing, I used 2 items, an early version of CA called Eastman 910 and a 2 part epoxy called Epoxy Patch. I wish I could still get that stuff. the new CA's, even from Loctite are not near as good as Eastman 910, but I think the real 2 part epoxies are still pretty good. I never had much luck with the 5 minute epoxy. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: computersystemrebuild@... > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:49:52 -0800 > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone here ever used a Devcon product called "Weldit"? > > I have used it extensively in basswood and balsa modeling with good results. Once I used it to glue a Kadee #4 coupler box to a metal Mantua frame. Four years, and countless hours of running later, that coupler box is still holding strong! > > I do like it for gluing basswood used in structures. I think it is basically a five minute epoxy. > > My disadvantage here, is that I am 27, and been into vintage HO scale for only eight years, so I have not had an opportunity to see long-term effects firsthand. Certainly not as the more experienced hobbyists of this group have! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not familiar enough with Pliobond yet to say how well it works over an extended period of time, but I can talk about Walthers Goo. I operate regularly on a large operations based (Monon) railroad and we usually have about 15 to 20 people operating, so you can imagine that it is a large railroad with LOTS of rolling stock. Most of the house type cars have weights glued in using Walthers Goo. I am one of they guys that gets to repair and check out Bad Order cars, so I see quite a few different things come in. This railroad has been in operation for well over 20 years, I am a newbie and have only been operating it for about 10 years. In the past couple of years, I have had to repair numerous loose weights and coupler boxes that have come undone that were originally installed with Walthers Goo. Walthers Goo has a tendency to outgas some vapors for many years, so I would caution about using it inside of any plastic or > resin models, I have heard of them getting deformed. The other problem is that if Goo has not been aired out properly and the items stuck together, they won't stay together very long. Even if the parts do stay stuck, I believe that eventually, the Goo dries itself out and starts to disintegrate and you get things re-kitted. I have decided to only use Goo for temporary adhesive and only on items that are not inside of something and definitely not for any rolling stock applications. On the other hand, some folks swear by Goo and will always continue to use it. As far as Pliobond, since I haven't used it long term, I can't say. But, I do very much like the way it works much better than Goo. I don't mind using it on trackwork at all, but may try Barge cement later on.I use CA a lot for metal to wood details and resin kits, but I don't believe I would use it for Walthers metal sided passenger cars. Maybe a > thick gel CA would work? Probably a good brand of 5 minute epoxy would be best, but make sure you get a good brand. I tried to be cheap once and purchased Ace Hardware brand 5 minute epoxy and that stuff was pretty much junk. I now use a REAL epoxy by Loctite brand and really like the way it works. Personally, I would use that for metal to wood, but don't be afraid to experiment with Barge cement. Barge cement is really cool, from what I heard. You can activate it or loosen by applying heat from a soldering iron, so even though it is a contact type cement, it can be easily adjusted. Google some of the handlaying track sites and see how these guys use Barge cement, that may be a good way.To get the parts undone and clean, first try Acetone, it shouldn't hurt anything, except plastic, so if there are any plastic parts be careful. Once you have things apart and need to get the metal parts > cleaner, Lacquer thinner or MEK works really good, but you want to do that stuff outside with good ventilation and air circulation.Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: albyrno@... > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:05:55 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Reclaimation suggestions needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found that barges cement gets thicker if cooler when use,you could lower glue temp. by placing tube in glass of cold water near ice cube or such,if it gets too cold it gets thick and stringy though,warm it in this case to thin,the same may apply to pliobond > > Alan > > > > (For Walther's kits and those disparate metal to wood and cast metal to tinplate joints they entail, I still like using what Walther's originally recommended - Walthers "GOO"! > > > > Its probably the same formulation as Pliobond but my impression is that Goo is a tad less runny) > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm gathering some elder Walthers cars and Doodlebugs that were built and need redoing. > > > > > > In most cases, it seems that redoing the seams between the side tinplate and the end castings is the most common repair. > > > > > > I'd like to just re-glue without breaking them apart. I don't expect SuperGlue alone to do the job and hold up. Also the tinplate sides to the wood floors is another type of gluing together that might need a different solution than the tin to casting joints. > > > > > > What ideas might some in the group have for this? > > > > > > I'm planning to blast and repaint most of them. It seems best to tighten up the bodies without tearing them apart and then finally do work on the paint and decals. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Mike Bauers > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18314	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery cars.

I expect there are a few of us here older than you... Don Staton in VA ------------------------------------------------------ On 2/4/2012 4:40 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Too bad is was just that! We vintage guys (I'm 70 too) would have loved to know the secret. Sigh! On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:   Not that old—I am 70—I got a double character in that date and erased the wrong one. The clinic was in 1994.    My fingers are too big for the keyboard.    From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:47 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery cars.   Hi glenn joesten, You gave a clinic in 1914? How old are you? -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18315	From: Wally	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Kits for sale

As you may remember, I purchased two vintage kits, one from Commercial Model Hobbies and the other from Motive Power Model Hobbies (Both the same company I understand) for PRR x23 box cars. As part of my downsizing, I want to offer these to the group for $5.00 each which is what I paid, Postage would be extra and if you are interested, please contact me off line. Thanks!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18316	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18317	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Phil, Any new info on MDC/Roundhouse (or any other manufacturer) is always welcome. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18318	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Chuck Higdon: Thanks for the reply.. I have 3 Ulrich cars that I can't find on the list. I also have at least 2 Thomas industries tank cars. However I will have to get back north, May 1, to go through other stuff. Most of my collection is there. Thanks again, Phil Entingh From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18319	From: John Webster	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Oldies - ID - early MDC question

The best thing you can do for MDC steam is double wire the tender trucks so that the normally insulated side of the tender truck has pickup wires that are connected to the motor brush that picks up from the locomotive's frame.   Fortunately Athearn's parts department carries sets of MDC archbar trucks that come wired that way, I believe the part number is 2428-PR03.   I too dislike the plastic pins. Keep the spares in the same box you store the loco in and make sure all the driver sets in that loco are in quarter with each other.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18320	From: rcjge	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Cary Berkshire Boiler sought

Hey Guys; Has anyone seen or have in their possession a Cary Berk Boiler they'd consider selling? Let me know? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18321	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Help with windows

Thanks to all for the ideas about windows in my Ambroid caboose. I'll report results. Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18322	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Ambroid Baggage Car Question

Ambroid 61' Wooden Baggage car kits have been around for a long time. Dozens have passed through my hands and several stuck. All have three doors per side. However, the early advertizing photos show 4 doors per side. Has anyone ever seen one with 4 doors? Thanks, Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18323	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Renumbering freight cares

Anyone have any experience renumbering metal cars without totally repainting them? Thanks, Phil Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18324	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Phil, I have updated the MDC list.  Let me know once you get back of the others. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:11 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Thanks for the reply.. I have 3 Ulrich cars that I can't find on the list. I also have at least 2 Thomas industries tank cars. However I will have to get back north, May 1, to go through other stuff. Most of my collection is there. Thanks again, Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18325	From: Nelson	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Drive Belts for Revell

I used a #30 O-ring from Home Despot. Worked great! Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > >   > A friend recently found an old Revel Diesel switcher in his attic- lost for years. >   > It is in sore need of a drive bet(from the motor shaft pulley to the gearbox). >   > Any luck out there? >   > Thanks in advance >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18326	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Fix brokencar stirrups

Did you ever find a neat roundhouse Metal drop bottom gondola with cast on stirrups (or any other similar car in metal or plastic), only to find a stirrup broken off? You really wanted that car for your railroad but didn't buy it. Or you bought it on E bay only to find it broken when you received it. Here is a relatively easy. Fix to make that care look like new. The secret is to hit up your Dentist for some outdated Vinyl Impression Material. You can also buy it on E bay for about $13.00 including shipping. I like the free stuff better. It's packaged like 5 minute epoxy only in smaller tubes. The dentist uses a special dispenser but you can make one with 2 pieces of ½ in. dowel and a small piece of 1/2 in plywood with 2 holes in it. Lay out and drill the holes to match the dimension of the 2 tubes on the impression material container. Then cut off excess wood. Glue the dowels into the wood piece. Now you can hold the dispenser with one hand and push with the home made tool with the other and out the stuff comes. I think by this time you might have figured out that you can make a mold of the opposite corner of the car, move it over the bad corner and cast a perfect fix. If you have an identical car, or you can steel one from your buddy's layout when he isn't looking, you can fix a car with all the stirrups missing, Ok, here is what you do next. A couple of small pieces of .05 styrene 3/8 X 1/5 in. glued together at right angles will make a good dam so the mold material won't get behind the stirrup. Place the dam behind the stirrup and back it up with some modeling clay that you steal from your kid, or to keep peace in the family, buy some from Michaels or other craft store. Now it's time to play with the Impression material dispenser you made. Squeeze some out on a piece of cereal box cardboard. Mix it with a small stick or screw driver. And glop it on the prepared stirrup. NOTE, this stuff sets up fast. Make sure you push it down so there are no voids or air bubbles next to the stirrup. Go have a cup of coffee with your wife, actually you can actually pull it off in 5 minutes or so. Prepare the bad corner by filing a bit of an angle at the break to give the epoxy that you will fill the mold with a little more purchase. Remove your new mold and clay and stuff and place it on the bad corner. Use some of that clay to hold the mold in place. I wrap it around the corner of the car a bit to firm up the mold. I use 5 minute epoxy to make the repair. I use a small screwdriver to apply the epoxy. Put it on thin so you don't leave a web of epoxy flashing in the stirrup that will be hard to file or carve out. Let it sit for a half hour before carefully removing the mold. Let your project sit over night to let the epoxy fully cure. Carefully remove the excess epoxy and there you are. Paint that puppy up and defy anyone to figure out where the repair was made. I have done a number of these over the years and can't remember what cars were fixed. After you do a couple of these, it shouldn't take over a half hour to do one. Oh, the mold can be used over and over. And by the way, I have cast missing box car doors the same way. Have fun with this great hobby. I plan to post this at the Flexi flo site. Phil Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18327	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

If you can do boxcar doors this way, will it also work for making Walthers heavyweight coach corner steps too? I like the Walthers steps because they usually have a small hole in them that makes them easy to mount to the underside of the car with a small wood screw. Just glued on ones, like Varney's tennite steps, usually come off after a derailment. The screwed-on ones stay put in derailments. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 2/5/12, pjentingh <pjentingh@...> wrote: From: pjentingh <pjentingh@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fix brokencar stirrups To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 9:56 PM   Did you ever find a neat roundhouse Metal drop bottom gondola with cast on stirrups (or any other similar car in metal or plastic), only to find a stirrup broken off? You really wanted that car for your railroad but didn't buy it. Or you bought it on E bay only to find it broken when you received it. Here is a relatively easy. Fix to make that care look like new. The secret is to hit up your Dentist for some outdated Vinyl Impression Material. You can also buy it on E bay for about $13.00 including shipping. I like the free stuff better. It's packaged like 5 minute epoxy only in smaller tubes. The dentist uses a special dispenser but you can make one with 2 pieces of ½ in. dowel and a small piece of 1/2 in plywood with 2 holes in it. Lay out and drill the holes to match the dimension of the 2 tubes on the impression material container. Then cut off excess wood. Glue the dowels into the wood piece. Now you can hold the dispenser with one hand and push with the home made tool with the other and out the stuff comes. I think by this time you might have figured out that you can make a mold of the opposite corner of the car, move it over the bad corner and cast a perfect fix. If you have an identical car, or you can steel one from your buddy's layout when he isn't looking, you can fix a car with all the stirrups missing, Ok, here is what you do next. A couple of small pieces of .05 styrene 3/8 X 1/5 in. glued together at right angles will make a good dam so the mold material won't get behind the stirrup. Place the dam behind the stirrup and back it up with some modeling clay that you steal from your kid, or to keep peace in the family, buy some from Michaels or other craft store. Now it's time to play with the Impression material dispenser you made. Squeeze some out on a piece of cereal box cardboard. Mix it with a small stick or screw driver. And glop it on the prepared stirrup. NOTE, this stuff sets up fast. Make sure you push it down so there are no voids or air bubbles next to the stirrup. Go have a cup of coffee with your wife, actually you can actually pull it off in 5 minutes or so. Prepare the bad corner by filing a bit of an angle at the break to give the epoxy that you will fill the mold with a little more purchase. Remove your new mold and clay and stuff and place it on the bad corner. Use some of that clay to hold the mold in place. I wrap it around the corner of the car a bit to firm up the mold. I use 5 minute epoxy to make the repair. I use a small screwdriver to apply the epoxy. Put it on thin so you don't leave a web of epoxy flashing in the stirrup that will be hard to file or carve out. Let it sit for a half hour before carefully removing the mold. Let your project sit over night to let the epoxy fully cure. Carefully remove the excess epoxy and there you are. Paint that puppy up and defy anyone to figure out where the repair was made. I have done a number of these over the years and can't remember what cars were fixed. After you do a couple of these, it shouldn't take over a half hour to do one. Oh, the mold can be used over and over. And by the way, I have cast missing box car doors the same way. Have fun with this great hobby. I plan to post this at the Flexi flo site. Phil Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18328	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

Steve: I'm not acquainted with that item. However it is just a mater of fixturing up the master part to cast. With a little thought you should be able to cast almost anything. If you mess up the first time keep at it . You will succeed. Have a good day, Phil From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Fix brokencar stirrups   If you can do boxcar doors this way, will it also work for making Walthers heavyweight coach corner steps too? I like the Walthers steps because they usually have a small hole in them that makes them easy to mount to the underside of the car with a small wood screw. Just glued on ones, like Varney's tennite steps, usually come off after a derailment. The screwed-on ones stay put in derailments. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 2/5/12, pjentingh <pjentingh@...> wrote: From: pjentingh <pjentingh@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fix brokencar stirrups To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 9:56 PM   Did you ever find a neat roundhouse Metal drop bottom gondola with cast on stirrups (or any other similar car in metal or plastic), only to find a stirrup broken off? You really wanted that car for your railroad but didn't buy it. Or you bought it on E bay only to find it broken when you received it. Here is a relatively easy. Fix to make that care look like new. The secret is to hit up your Dentist for some outdated Vinyl Impression Material. You can also buy it on E bay for about $13.00 including shipping. I like the free stuff better. It's packaged like 5 minute epoxy only in smaller tubes. The dentist uses a special dispenser but you can make one with 2 pieces of ½ in. dowel and a small piece of 1/2 in plywood with 2 holes in it. Lay out and drill the holes to match the dimension of the 2 tubes on the impression material container. Then cut off excess wood. Glue the dowels into the wood piece. Now you can hold the dispenser with one hand and push with the home made tool with the other and out the stuff comes. I think by this time you might have figured out that you can make a mold of the opposite corner of the car, move it over the bad corner and cast a perfect fix. If you have an identical car, or you can steel one from your buddy's layout when he isn't looking, you can fix a car with all the stirrups missing, Ok, here is what you do next. A couple of small pieces of .05 styrene 3/8 X 1/5 in. glued together at right angles will make a good dam so the mold material won't get behind the stirrup. Place the dam behind the stirrup and back it up with some modeling clay that you steal from your kid, or to keep peace in the family, buy some from Michaels or other craft store. Now it's time to play with the Impression material dispenser you made. Squeeze some out on a piece of cereal box cardboard. Mix it with a small stick or screw driver. And glop it on the prepared stirrup. NOTE, this stuff sets up fast. Make sure you push it down so there are no voids or air bubbles next to the stirrup. Go have a cup of coffee with your wife, actually you can actually pull it off in 5 minutes or so. Prepare the bad corner by filing a bit of an angle at the break to give the epoxy that you will fill the mold with a little more purchase. Remove your new mold and clay and stuff and place it on the bad corner. Use some of that clay to hold the mold in place. I wrap it around the corner of the car a bit to firm up the mold. I use 5 minute epoxy to make the repair. I use a small screwdriver to apply the epoxy. Put it on thin so you don't leave a web of epoxy flashing in the stirrup that will be hard to file or carve out. Let it sit for a half hour before carefully removing the mold. Let your project sit over night to let the epoxy fully cure. Carefully remove the excess epoxy and there you are. Paint that puppy up and defy anyone to figure out where the repair was made. I have done a number of these over the years and can't remember what cars were fixed. After you do a couple of these, it shouldn't take over a half hour to do one. Oh, the mold can be used over and over. And by the way, I have cast missing box car doors the same way. Have fun with this great hobby. I plan to post this at the Flexi flo site. Phil Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18329	From: David	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?

Can anybody tell me what this metal passenger car model  represents, and why the windows look like a graphic equalizer? Thanks. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18330	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?

It is a "duplex sleeper".  It allows good space utilization by allowing the rooms to overlap somewhat. This shows a picture of a somewhat different model saying "Pennsy owned- a 12-5 sleeper from the "Brook" series. :" at http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,496260   Here's another model:  http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmpassengercars/id116.html   Here is some prototype info:   Side view plan:  http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=ps124_br.gif&sel=sle&sz=sm&fr= Floor plan:   http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=ps123_fp.gif&sel=sle&sz=sm&fr=   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: David To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 9:10 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?   Can anybody tell me what this metal passenger car model  represents, and why the windows look like a graphic equalizer? Thanks. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18331	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?

Hi David,   As Chuck Kinzer, pointed out it is a duplex sleeper.  This model is a “Rail Chief” 28 room Duplex sleeper.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 12:11 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?     Can anybody tell me what this metal passenger car model  represents, and why the windows look like a graphic equalizer? Thanks. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18332	From: rcjge	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

Phil: Do you have any pics. I'm having trouble visualizing this.... Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "pjentingh" <pjentingh@...> wrote: > > Did you ever find a neat roundhouse Metal drop bottom gondola with cast on stirrups (or any other similar car in metal or plastic), only to find a stirrup broken off? You really wanted that car for your railroad but didn't buy it. Or you bought it on E bay only to find it broken when you received it. Here is a relatively easy. Fix to make that care look like new. > The secret is to hit up your Dentist for some outdated Vinyl Impression Material. You can also buy it on E bay for about $13.00 including shipping. I like the free stuff better. It's packaged like 5 minute epoxy only in smaller tubes. The dentist uses a special dispenser but you can make one with 2 pieces of � in. dowel and a small piece of 1/2 in plywood with 2 holes in it. Lay out and drill the holes to match the dimension of the 2 tubes on the impression material container. Then cut off excess wood. Glue the dowels into the wood piece. Now you can hold the dispenser with one hand and push with the home made tool with the other and out the stuff comes. > I think by this time you might have figured out that you can make a mold of the opposite corner of the car, move it over the bad corner and cast a perfect fix. If you have an identical car, or you can steel one from your buddy's layout when he isn't looking, you can fix a car with all the stirrups missing, > Ok, here is what you do next. A couple of small pieces of .05 styrene 3/8 X 1/5 in. glued together at right angles will make a good dam so the mold material won't get behind the stirrup. Place the dam behind the stirrup and back it up with some modeling clay that you steal from your kid, or to keep peace in the family, buy some from Michaels or other craft store. Now it's time to play with the Impression material dispenser you made. Squeeze some out on a piece of cereal box cardboard. Mix it with a small stick or screw driver. And glop it on the prepared stirrup. NOTE, this stuff sets up fast. Make sure you push it down so there are no voids or air bubbles next to the stirrup. Go have a cup of coffee with your wife, actually you can actually pull it off in 5 minutes or so. > Prepare the bad corner by filing a bit of an angle at the break to give the epoxy that you will fill the mold with a little more purchase. Remove your new mold and clay and stuff and place it on the bad corner. Use some of that clay to hold the mold in place. I wrap it around the corner of the car a bit to firm up the mold. I use 5 minute epoxy to make the repair. I use a small screwdriver to apply the epoxy. Put it on thin so you don't leave a web of epoxy flashing in the stirrup that will be hard to file or carve out. Let it sit for a half hour before carefully removing the mold. Let your project sit over night to let the epoxy fully cure. Carefully remove the excess epoxy and there you are. Paint that puppy up and defy anyone to figure out where the repair was made. I have done a number of these over the years and can't remember what cars were fixed. After you do a couple of these, it shouldn't take over a half hour to do one. Oh, the mold can be used over and over. And by the way, I have cast missing box car doors the same way. > Have fun with this great hobby. I plan to post this at the Flexi flo site. Phil Entingh >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18333	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

Gareth: I just joined this group and I haven't figured out how to send pictures. Maybe you could tell me where you are having problems and I can talk you thru it. Meantime I will set up and take some pictures. Phil Entingh From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 9:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fix brokencar stirrups   Phil: Do you have any pics. I'm having trouble visualizing this.... Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "pjentingh" <pjentingh@...> wrote: > > Did you ever find a neat roundhouse Metal drop bottom gondola with cast on stirrups (or any other similar car in metal or plastic), only to find a stirrup broken off? You really wanted that car for your railroad but didn't buy it. Or you bought it on E bay only to find it broken when you received it. Here is a relatively easy. Fix to make that care look like new. > The secret is to hit up your Dentist for some outdated Vinyl Impression Material. You can also buy it on E bay for about $13.00 including shipping. I like the free stuff better. It's packaged like 5 minute epoxy only in smaller tubes. The dentist uses a special dispenser but you can make one with 2 pieces of � in. dowel and a small piece of 1/2 in plywood with 2 holes in it. Lay out and drill the holes to match the dimension of the 2 tubes on the impression material container. Then cut off excess wood. Glue the dowels into the wood piece. Now you can hold the dispenser with one hand and push with the home made tool with the other and out the stuff comes. > I think by this time you might have figured out that you can make a mold of the opposite corner of the car, move it over the bad corner and cast a perfect fix. If you have an identical car, or you can steel one from your buddy's layout when he isn't looking, you can fix a car with all the stirrups missing, > Ok, here is what you do next. A couple of small pieces of .05 styrene 3/8 X 1/5 in. glued together at right angles will make a good dam so the mold material won't get behind the stirrup. Place the dam behind the stirrup and back it up with some modeling clay that you steal from your kid, or to keep peace in the family, buy some from Michaels or other craft store. Now it's time to play with the Impression material dispenser you made. Squeeze some out on a piece of cereal box cardboard. Mix it with a small stick or screw driver. And glop it on the prepared stirrup. NOTE, this stuff sets up fast. Make sure you push it down so there are no voids or air bubbles next to the stirrup. Go have a cup of coffee with your wife, actually you can actually pull it off in 5 minutes or so. > Prepare the bad corner by filing a bit of an angle at the break to give the epoxy that you will fill the mold with a little more purchase. Remove your new mold and clay and stuff and place it on the bad corner. Use some of that clay to hold the mold in place. I wrap it around the corner of the car a bit to firm up the mold. I use 5 minute epoxy to make the repair. I use a small screwdriver to apply the epoxy. Put it on thin so you don't leave a web of epoxy flashing in the stirrup that will be hard to file or carve out. Let it sit for a half hour before carefully removing the mold. Let your project sit over night to let the epoxy fully cure. Carefully remove the excess epoxy and there you are. Paint that puppy up and defy anyone to figure out where the repair was made. I have done a number of these over the years and can't remember what cars were fixed. After you do a couple of these, it shouldn't take over a half hour to do one. Oh, the mold can be used over and over. And by the way, I have cast missing box car doors the same way. > Have fun with this great hobby. I plan to post this at the Flexi flo site. Phil Entingh >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18334	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

Gareth: I uploaded some pictures. Also a couple of pictures of cars. They are not in proper order. You should get the idea. I used a repaired car.so I hope that doesn't confuse anyone. The pictures are under my name Phil Entingh in picture file 121. or there about.. The car is a n AHM copy of the NYC flexi flo car. I'm working on 5 0f them to reletter. Phil From: P Entingh <pjentingh@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Fix brokencar stirrups   Gareth: I just joined this group and I haven't figured out how to send pictures. Maybe you could tell me where you are having problems and I can talk you thru it. Meantime I will set up and take some pictures. Phil Entingh From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 9:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fix brokencar stirrups   Phil: Do you have any pics. I'm having trouble visualizing this.... Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "pjentingh" <pjentingh@...> wrote: > > Did you ever find a neat roundhouse Metal drop bottom gondola with cast on stirrups (or any other similar car in metal or plastic), only to find a stirrup broken off? You really wanted that car for your railroad but didn't buy it. Or you bought it on E bay only to find it broken when you received it. Here is a relatively easy. Fix to make that care look like new. > The secret is to hit up your Dentist for some outdated Vinyl Impression Material. You can also buy it on E bay for about $13.00 including shipping. I like the free stuff better. It's packaged like 5 minute epoxy only in smaller tubes. The dentist uses a special dispenser but you can make one with 2 pieces of � in. dowel and a small piece of 1/2 in plywood with 2 holes in it. Lay out and drill the holes to match the dimension of the 2 tubes on the impression material container. Then cut off excess wood. Glue the dowels into the wood piece. Now you can hold the dispenser with one hand and push with the home made tool with the other and out the stuff comes. > I think by this time you might have figured out that you can make a mold of the opposite corner of the car, move it over the bad corner and cast a perfect fix. If you have an identical car, or you can steel one from your buddy's layout when he isn't looking, you can fix a car with all the stirrups missing, > Ok, here is what you do next. A couple of small pieces of .05 styrene 3/8 X 1/5 in. glued together at right angles will make a good dam so the mold material won't get behind the stirrup. Place the dam behind the stirrup and back it up with some modeling clay that you steal from your kid, or to keep peace in the family, buy some from Michaels or other craft store. Now it's time to play with the Impression material dispenser you made. Squeeze some out on a piece of cereal box cardboard. Mix it with a small stick or screw driver. And glop it on the prepared stirrup. NOTE, this stuff sets up fast. Make sure you push it down so there are no voids or air bubbles next to the stirrup. Go have a cup of coffee with your wife, actually you can actually pull it off in 5 minutes or so. > Prepare the bad corner by filing a bit of an angle at the break to give the epoxy that you will fill the mold with a little more purchase. Remove your new mold and clay and stuff and place it on the bad corner. Use some of that clay to hold the mold in place. I wrap it around the corner of the car a bit to firm up the mold. I use 5 minute epoxy to make the repair. I use a small screwdriver to apply the epoxy. Put it on thin so you don't leave a web of epoxy flashing in the stirrup that will be hard to file or carve out. Let it sit for a half hour before carefully removing the mold. Let your project sit over night to let the epoxy fully cure. Carefully remove the excess epoxy and there you are. Paint that puppy up and defy anyone to figure out where the repair was made. I have done a number of these over the years and can't remember what cars were fixed. After you do a couple of these, it shouldn't take over a half hour to do one. Oh, the mold can be used over and over. And by the way, I have cast missing box car doors the same way. > Have fun with this great hobby. I plan to post this at the Flexi flo site. Phil Entingh >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18335	From: John H	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

Group, Back around 1986 I did a simular thing using Permatex RTV Blue gasket maker. I was building some RS-1's using Cary S-2 shells (Best thing available then except brass and I wasn't about to cut up two brass models for each RS-1). I needed to make some jacking pads and I used the Permatex to make molds. I then cast the parts using 5 minute epoxy. Worked pretty good too, except once the epoxy set it was a bear to file off any excess. Boy that stuff is hard! But it worked good enough that I used the same method for a few other things, including hood side doors from an S-2 I used to make some S-1's, which have a shorter radiator intake grill/shutter set and one more door per side. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, P Entingh <pjentingh@...> wrote: > > Gareth: I uploaded some pictures. Also a couple of pictures of cars. They are not in proper order. You should get the idea. I used a repaired car.so I hope that doesn't confuse anyone. The pictures are under my name Phil Entingh in picture file 121. or there about.. The car is a n AHM copy of the NYC flexi flo car. I'm working on 5 0f them to reletter. Phil >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18336	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Chuck: I found a site that lists all 10 Thomas Industry tank cars, also their other products. www.hoseeker.net/lit.html     You might just find a few other things of interest.  Phil Entingh From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18337	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Kits for sale

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Wally" <dim01521@...> wrote: > > As you may remember, I purchased two vintage kits, one from Commercial Model Hobbies and the other from Motive Power Model Hobbies (Both the same company I understand) for PRR x23 box cars. As part of my downsizing, I want to offer these to the group for $5.00 each which is what I paid, Postage would be extra and if you are interested, please contact me off line. > > Thanks! > I am interested. Are these different road numbers? Are these kits wood, plastic, or what? Who is the manufacturer? How do I go about buying on this site? Thanks, Phil Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18338	From: pjentingh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive

I think you can find O rings to replace the rubber bands. They pretty much last forever. I believe a couple of mine are set up that way. I can't check because I am in FL. and my layout is up north. Phil Entingh --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wobbly913" <wobbly913@...> wrote: > > Hi all > > I have rather recently started to casually collect Athearn rubber > band drive engines. They are mostly F7 types, in a variety of > railroad names. I have an ABA set of Santa Fe warbonnet, an ABA blue > bonnet, an AB Milwaukee set and an AB Black Widow Sp as well as an SP > bloodynose Gp7. The motors turn in all of the powered units(the B's > anb second A's are dummys), but only one will pull anything, the rest > need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply the > rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a convenient > replacement source. I also have 4 RDC cars, a Santa Fe RDC3 powered, > which I bought brand new recently, and 3 non powered. > I also have an AB set of the plastic frame dummy engines that Athearn > made in the mid 50's I think. > > Wobbly 913 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18339	From: David	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?

Hey, thanks for the quick info, gentlemen. Though I've never paid much attention to passenger cars, one would think that regular reading of MR since 1962 would have equipped me to identify a Pullman doing the wave. But I don't recall ever seeing one before. On the other hand, there is a lot that I don't recall, these days. Chuck H, is "Rail Chief" the prototype manufacturer's name, or the marketing name for this style of prototype duplex sleeper, or is it the brand name of the HO model? -- David ==================== --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi David, > > > > As Chuck Kinzer, pointed out it is a duplex sleeper. This model is a "Rail > Chief" 28 room Duplex sleeper. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of David > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 12:11 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Peculiar Passenger Car - ID? > > > > > > Can anybody tell me what this metal passenger > <http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/12104862/sn/2023467722/name/GraphEqPassCar.jpg > > car model represents, and why the windows look like a graphic equalizer? > > Thanks. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18340	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?

Rail Chief is the brand name of the HO manufacturer and distributor.    Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 9:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Peculiar Passenger Car - ID?     Hey, thanks for the quick info, gentlemen. Though I've never paid much attention to passenger cars, one would think that regular reading of MR since 1962 would have equipped me to identify a Pullman doing the wave. But I don't recall ever seeing one before. On the other hand, there is a lot that I don't recall, these days. Chuck H, is "Rail Chief" the prototype manufacturer's name, or the marketing name for this style of prototype duplex sleeper, or is it the brand name of the HO model? -- David ==================== --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi David, > > > > As Chuck Kinzer, pointed out it is a duplex sleeper. This model is a "Rail > Chief" 28 room Duplex sleeper. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of David > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 12:11 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Peculiar Passenger Car - ID? > > > > > > Can anybody tell me what this metal passenger > < href="http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/12104862/sn/2023467722/name/GraphEqPassCar.jpg">http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/12104862/sn/2023467722/name/GraphEqPassCar.jpg > > car model represents, and why the windows look like a graphic equalizer? > > Thanks. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18341	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Yes, Phil, that is a great site with lots of interesting information.  I have used it before to answer some questions I had about some items.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: I found a site that lists all 10 Thomas Industry tank cars, also their other products. www.hoseeker.net/lit.html     You might just find a few other things of interest.  Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18342	From: RalphB	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: Fix brokencar stirrups

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Hagen wrote: > > But it worked good enough that I used the same method for a few other things, including hood side doors from an S-2 I used to make some S-1's, which have a shorter radiator intake grill/shutter set and one more door per side. > ------------------------ There was an article in the NMRA "Magazine" about a year ago that dealt with the Alco S-1 to S-4 series. Turns out that instead of using a common underframe, as EMD did, Alco 660- and 1000-hp switchers were different in more ways than just the size of the radiator, in some cases just a matter of inches. Alco, and Baldwin, built diesels the same way they built steamers, each model unique. For weight and balance purposes, all EMD had to do was shift motor mount locations on a single frame design. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18343	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?

He Guys, I heard Bowser manufacturing was purchased and their engines will be produced again. Can anyone confirm this?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18344	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Fwd: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars

Attachments : IMG_7683.JPG IMG_7680.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:55:06 -0500 From: To: Since I got my pre painted cardboard sided DMC ( Dallas Model Craft ) E3/6 B unit finished and added it to the powered A unit I decided to go back to the 7 car ( missing one car ) pre war Varney pre painted B&O like celluloid sided passenger cars. Finally got the blue color painted and now will do the roofs gray. Then before I add the celluloid sides I have to dull down the gloss blue and maybe the gray to better match the sides. I've got to start taking before and after pictures to see how much work was done to bring them back as every car was coming apart and needed all knew fake wooden diaphragms that the plans called for. Sanded all cars down to get old paint off and sealed the wood before painted. Have to pull the tape off the three cars in the front off the first picture and add trucks and large Loop couplers. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18345	From: nico	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > He Guys, > > I heard Bowser manufacturing was purchased and their engines will be produced again. Can anyone confirm this? > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > One of the founders just passed, but where did this come from and who's doing it? Further more, does anybody know where to get the motor trucks for their trolley and interurban cars?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18346	From: rcjge	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?

Sean is talking about the Steamer line I'm pretty sure. That's what Bowser has for sale.... -Gareth > One of the founders just passed, but where did this come from and who's doing it? Further more, does anybody know where to get the motor trucks for their trolley and interurban cars? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18347	From: Jay	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: I heard a Bowser Manufacturing rumor! Is it true?

Hi Nico, AKA "trainguru", Bowser introduced a completely new traction power unit (not as compact, but smooth) circa 1999, so the old ones, based upon the 1950's Pennsylvania Scale Models (Herman Eschador) have been out of production and unavailable for some time. (Keep checking eBay.) The last I looked, Bowser still had a few parts available for the old units, and has reference drawings on their site as well. Hope this helps. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nico" <trainguru@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > He Guys, > > > > I heard Bowser manufacturing was purchased and their engines will be produced again. Can anyone confirm this? > > > >   > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > One of the founders just passed, but where did this come from and who's doing it? Further more, does anybody know where to get the motor trucks for their trolley and interurban cars? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18348	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

I've been building a vintage MDC diecast box car the past few evenings. MKT bright yellow, or at least the four side segments are. The rest of it you get to paint yourself. Floquil reefer yellow seems like a good match. I primered the unpainted pieces with Floquil primer gray in a spray can. I want to keep a vintage look but not so vintage as to brush paint it... LOL. This is one car in my attempt to recreate my dad's freight train from around the time I was born. The Katy was one of two yellow MDC box cars, the other was a Great Northern with the roof and ends painted black. Interesting story of my persistence... when I was about 3-4, I had this clear memory of their having been another yellow box car - one that was solid yellow, not black and yellow. Mom said you're mistaken, there's only that one (the GN). My dad was a little less deceptive and mumbled something about it needed to be fixed. Anyway, one day I decided to go on a quest to find "The Other Yellow Box Car", the one mom claimed didn't exist. In the basement there were some wooden shelves built into the staircase and lots of nondescript boxes, plain unmarked things. I just picked one out - on the top shelf. I climbed up the shelves like a ladder, hauled myself up and peered down into the box on the top shelf and there it was. In the first place I looked. I remember deciding right then and there to always trust my nose for finding things, and never buy into parental BS trying to derail my quest... LOL. Anyway, there was nothing at all wrong with The Other Yellow box car, and it joined the fleet. I still have it, in pieces, but decided to build a new one from a kit I bought at a show long ago. It's a nice diversion from Tix soldering the .015" brass handrails and stanchions on the scratchbuilt / Cannon SD40-2 I've been working on. I will post some pictures when I get it done. Oh yeah, I found a pack of Kadee #4 couplers which can be installed directly in the MDC coupler box. I toyed with the idea of using horn-hook couplers since that was the common entity at the time, but most of Dad's cars got Kadees eventually. I want some vintage fun, but I don't need *all* of the vintage hassle... #4 is vintage enough anyway, it's the oldest Kadee style. And apparently no longer made, but I have a small stash. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18349	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

Andy: Do you, or anyone else out there have a few extra pair of Kadee # 4 couplers that they would be willing to part with. I have modified a bunch of Roundhouse boiler plate box cars. I clamp them up in between pieces of cardboard in my vertical milling machine vise and mill off the metal coupler pockets. Then I drill and tap them for number 2-56 thread. They are then ready to mount Kadee coupler pockets. I recently acquired 3 Roundhouse metal sand and gravel hoppers. They are a bit fragile to clamp up. It would be much better to mount # 4's. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18350	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim, These cars look great! The more I see of your work the younger I get. Looking at your collection is like knocking 60 years off my life. Thank you! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18351	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Varney pre war celluloid Passenger cars

Jake,       Glad you like the vintage collection I have put together. Along with it I try to put together the history of defunct companies. My motto is "Never say Never'' as I search for rare, possible unknown to many, vintage pieces. I don't know if you use    www.hoseeker.net    If not check out the Literature section and the Gallery of pictures. I started in HO in 58 with a Revell set and bought a lot newer stuff but got interested in the vintage stuff  (1936-1975) . Sometimes I find something old and will search for original parts for a long timre. I own a 6 volt Conover 2-10-2 from 1938 and need the Baker valve gear for it to be completed. I've had many suggestions to use other Baker valve gears from other companies but I'm stubborn and want the original if possible. Again THANKS for the comment.                                      Jim H On 2/11/2012 9:55 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Hi Jim, These cars look great! The more I see of your work the younger I get. Looking at your collection is like knocking 60 years off my life. Thank you! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18352	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Vanden Boom trains

I ran across the manufacturer "Vanden Boom" model trains.   That's another new one to me.   I couldn't find it at HOseeker, but I seem to not always find what is at that site.   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18353	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

> Andy: Do you, or anyone else out there have a few extra pair of Kadee # 4 couplers that they would be willing to part with. I wish I did, but sadly by the time I realized they were an endangered species, it was too late. I have a grand total of 2.5 packs and way more vintage MDC and Ulrich cars than that. I will be on the lookout for more, but I may end up just having to grind off the old square pin type boxes and mount #5s. I am bidding on some already built vintage Athearn cars, and they already have Kadees - hopefully installed and usable. I won't change those as long as they work. I was afraid this little vintage "dad's train" thing would get out of control. I have acquired most of the cars, but now I'm starting to buy and bid on other vintage stuff..... LOL Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18354	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

----- Original Message ----- From: "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car >> Andy: Do you, or anyone else out there have a few extra pair of Kadee # 4 >> couplers that they would be willing to part with. > > I wish I did, but sadly by the time I realized they were an endangered > species, it was too late. I have a grand total of 2.5 packs and way more > vintage MDC and Ulrich cars than that. I will be on the lookout for more, > but I may end up just having to grind off the old square pin type boxes > and mount #5s. > > I am bidding on some already built vintage Athearn cars, and they already > have Kadees - hopefully installed and usable. I won't change those as > long as they work. > > I was afraid this little vintage "dad's train" thing would get out of > control. I have acquired most of the cars, but now I'm starting to buy > and bid on other vintage stuff..... LOL > > Andy I started out just trying to recreate my original 1959 Athearn train set. Look where it's gone (including the genesis if this very group). As far as number 4 couplers, a trick I've used with some success, use a Number 5 in the original pocket, with the leaf spring and the number 5 coupler pocket base turned upside down and used as the cover plate. They won't do the "delay" feature anymore because the loose leaf of the spring will be on the wrong side, but other than that they'll still work fine. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18355	From: Garry Spear	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Vanden Boom trains

I offered a Vanden Boom catalog for sale last fall.  No takers.  I sold it at a train show, if I remember correctly. They were a full range seller.  Lionel, American Flyer, Scale Craft; I don't remember to other manufacturers they sold.  O gauge trains were available converted to 2 rail or outside 3 rail.  i.e early high rail O gauge. Garry Spear On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:48 AM, <ckinzer@...> wrote:   I ran across the manufacturer "Vanden Boom" model trains.   That's another new one to me.   I couldn't find it at HOseeker, but I seem to not always find what is at that site.   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18356	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Dad's Freight Train

I put up pictures of the first 6 cars that I have up and running - they are sitting on my DCC main line right now and miraculously aren't shorting it out. I had forgotten all those caveats about metal bodied cars and metal trucks insulated only on one side! http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/ This is a recreation, not the original - as I work on this page I will find and photograph whatever remains of the originals for comparison. I'm less than halfway there but it's a good start. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18357	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

HI Andy,   Your write up is very nice.  I got a few chuckles from it.  Nice project.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of greendoddz Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:30 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Dad's Freight Train     I put up pictures of the first 6 cars that I have up and running - they are sitting on my DCC main line right now and miraculously aren't shorting it out. I had forgotten all those caveats about metal bodied cars and metal trucks insulated only on one side! http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/ This is a recreation, not the original - as I work on this page I will find and photograph whatever remains of the originals for comparison. I'm less than halfway there but it's a good start. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18358	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/13/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

Wow, brought back some memories, I had several of these cars year ago but they're long gone. Too many moves and teen years of girl and cars.Thanks, Andy!! Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18359	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

Hi, I think I have a couple of them and the mounting boxes stashed in one of my parts boxes and I doubt seriously that I will ever need them. If you send me a mailing address I'll send on what I have and you can reimburse me the mailing costs. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 2/12/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: >> Andy: Do you, or anyone else out there have a few extra pair of Kadee # 4 >> couplers that they would be willing to part with. > > I wish I did, but sadly by the time I realized they were an endangered > species, it was too late. I have a grand total of 2.5 packs and way more > vintage MDC and Ulrich cars than that. I will be on the lookout for more, > but I may end up just having to grind off the old square pin type boxes and > mount #5s. > > I am bidding on some already built vintage Athearn cars, and they already > have Kadees - hopefully installed and usable. I won't change those as long > as they work. > > I was afraid this little vintage "dad's train" thing would get out of > control. I have acquired most of the cars, but now I'm starting to buy and > bid on other vintage stuff..... LOL > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18360	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18361	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Ulrich had really nicely detailed rolling stock way back when. His die work must have set a standard in them days.  My favorites were the drop bottom gons and the offset hoppers.   And the Kenworth and Mack coe trucks and trailers. If for no other reason than the fully equalized tandem axle suspensions. But actually, the whole truck was neat, again due to the exquisite die work. When you put one on your layout and then took a picture, you didn’t have to worry that some of the tires on the bogies would be off the ground. If you check one of those trucks against the Penn Line Ford C-series tilt cab and trailers, the Ulrich were definitely the better of the two. Not that the Penn Lines were bad (way ahead of most of the other HO vehicles of the time, just not as nice as the Ulrich. And the prices sellers get for the Ulrich trucks bears this out.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greendoddz Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock     Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18362	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Andy,   Believe it or not....Ulrich Models (not the originasl company per se) is still around...in Berthoud, Colorado.   The original company was started in 1946; briefly owned by Walthers; and was inactive between 1985 and 2003. In 2003 DCSi purchased it and relocated it to Berthoud, where it is known today as Ulrich Models Hobby Store:   3933 Highplanes Drive Berthoud, Colorado 80513 FAX: 303-447-1046   877-600-8657 EMAIL: sales@...   The kicker...the Berthoud Store is not into the old models. It is dedicated to DCC and Sound systems.   Additional Ulrich history information is below:   Home Contact Us Ulrich History Hobby Shops Ulrich Hobby Store RailStop.com Some of the Ulrich Past Models and History GS Gondola Operating Triple Hopper Composite Gondola Piggyback Flat Car Bekins Moving Van Ulrich Models Kits was started by Charlie Ulrich in 1946 while working at North American Aviation. The first model was a signal lamp followed by the track cleaning car. Over the years the following models were produced: Signal Lamp Track Cleaning Car Standard and Offset-Side Twin Hoppers Composite Gondola Modern and Truss Rod Flat Cars Outside Braced Boxcar American Transit Reefer Stock Car Piggy Back Flat Car (TOFC) Operating Triple Hopper Operating GS Gondola Mack and Kenworth Tractor and Trailers. Before selling the company to Walthers sometime in the 1970s, Ulrich Models Kits was also producing slot cars. Charlie Ulrich working on a hopper car in 1952 Charlie Ulrich is still alive and well. In the future, RailStop.com will publish the history of Ulrich Models as well as many interesting railroad stories told by Charlie Ulrich. There you go. Best bet is to go to the search engine and type in "Ulrich Models."   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) ********************************************************************************************************* --- On Tue, 2/14/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 12:39 PM   Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18363	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

Jake: are you responding to my feeler about Kadee # 4 couplers or someone else ? If it is my request How do I get my info to you Without it getting to everyone on the site. Phil Entingh From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car   Hi, I think I have a couple of them and the mounting boxes stashed in one of my parts boxes and I doubt seriously that I will ever need them. If you send me a mailing address I'll send on what I have and you can reimburse me the mailing costs. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 2/12/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: >> Andy: Do you, or anyone else out there have a few extra pair of Kadee # 4 >> couplers that they would be willing to part with. > > I wish I did, but sadly by the time I realized they were an endangered > species, it was too late. I have a grand total of 2.5 packs and way more > vintage MDC and Ulrich cars than that. I will be on the lookout for more, > but I may end up just having to grind off the old square pin type boxes and > mount #5s. > > I am bidding on some already built vintage Athearn cars, and they already > have Kadees - hopefully installed and usable. I won't change those as long > as they work. > > I was afraid this little vintage "dad's train" thing would get out of > control. I have acquired most of the cars, but now I'm starting to buy and > bid on other vintage stuff..... LOL > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18364	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Cool. It does look like they are still offering the original trucks and trailers, which makes sense.... the original freight cars are all pretty much obsolete now and wouldn't be much of a market. That drop bottom gondola was one of the nicest diecast cars I ever saw, with the operating hatches. I have two Challenger Imports brass GS gondolas, as well as a bunch of the new tool Red Caboose plastic ones.... none of them have operating doors, although that's not really necessary. I think the Detail Associates GS gondola kit (quite a project to build I've heard) had separate doors that could be posed, but not sure if they actually "operate". Tyco also had operating hopper cars in the 1960s. They had a clamshell type of door that was held shut by gravity. You could buy a "coal unloader" ramp with a gizmo that would flip open the clamshells as you pushed the car over it, and unload into a bin below. The main problem with this arrangement is that lots of other things would also cause the clamshells to open up.... Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18365	From: Charles	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car

Just to jump in on how to send to group member and not the entire group: The "from" from somebody's email sent to the group should show their email address. Just copy and paste it into a new email to communicate off group. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, P Entingh <pjentingh@...> wrote: > > Jake: are you responding to my feeler about Kadee # 4 couplers or someone else ? If it is my request How do I get my info to you Without it getting to everyone on the site. Phil Entingh > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:38 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Roundhouse Metal Box Car > > >   > Hi, > I think I have a couple of them and the mounting boxes stashed in > one of my parts boxes and I doubt seriously that I will ever need > them. If you send me a mailing address I'll send on what I have and > you can reimburse me the mailing costs. > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > On 2/12/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: > >> Andy: Do you, or anyone else out there have a few extra pair of Kadee # 4 > >> couplers that they would be willing to part with. > > > > I wish I did, but sadly by the time I realized they were an endangered > > species, it was too late. I have a grand total of 2.5 packs and way more > > vintage MDC and Ulrich cars than that. I will be on the lookout for more, > > but I may end up just having to grind off the old square pin type boxes and > > mount #5s. > > > > I am bidding on some already built vintage Athearn cars, and they already > > have Kadees - hopefully installed and usable. I won't change those as long > > as they work. > > > > I was afraid this little vintage "dad's train" thing would get out of > > control. I have acquired most of the cars, but now I'm starting to buy and > > bid on other vintage stuff..... LOL > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18366	From: John H	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Ah, no. There is a message on the "Trucks" page indicting that all production has stopped due to rising costs in China. They further state that the tooling for the Mack and the trailers is in China and the Kenworth tooling is in the US. They also say the tooling is for sale. Had I any money..... This isn't injection molding so I think (strong emphasis on the word think as I really don't know) that diecasting metal can be done on limited production basis. If so I wopuld be happy to do so with those trucks. But it's most likely another lost cause. Funny but last week there was a big discussion concerning Athearns new GP38-2 on the Diesel group. Some there seemed to think that the rising costs of Chineae production is a bunch of doo-doo invented by the manufacturers/importers to justify higher prices. If so, then why are some like Ulrich discontinuating production? John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > Cool. It does look like they are still offering the original trucks and trailers, which makes sense.... the original freight cars are all pretty much obsolete now and wouldn't be much of a market. > > That drop bottom gondola was one of the nicest diecast cars I ever saw, with the operating hatches. I have two Challenger Imports brass GS gondolas, as well as a bunch of the new tool Red Caboose plastic ones.... none of them have operating doors, although that's not really necessary. I think the Detail Associates GS gondola kit (quite a project to build I've heard) had separate doors that could be posed, but not sure if they actually "operate". > > Tyco also had operating hopper cars in the 1960s. They had a clamshell type of door that was held shut by gravity. You could buy a "coal unloader" ramp with a gizmo that would flip open the clamshells as you pushed the car over it, and unload into a bin below. The main problem with this arrangement is that lots of other things would also cause the clamshells to open up.... > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18367	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

On 2/14/2012 1:39 PM, greendoddz wrote: > Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? > > I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. > > When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? > > Who was Ulrich originally? > > I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. > > I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. > > Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. > > Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. There's a very abbreviated history on their web site: http://www.ulrichmodels.com/PrevUlrichModels.asp -- Rick Jones "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18368	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Ulrich made a 'sierra' coach, formerly Lacomia, i beleive. george From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock   Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18369	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they acquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've been wrong before). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geo Stahlberg" <mermaidnc@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Ulrich made a 'sierra' coach, formerly Lacomia, i beleive. george ________________________________ From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18370	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

I have three Ulrich tractor/trailers on my layout that I have owned since around 1960. The only thing I did to them was add mirrors and fill in the window openings (with white glue of some kind). Here is the Safeway reefer <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/ulrichreefer.html>. The other two are a tanker with the same tractor (that I don't seem to have am image of) and a rack flatbed with a Kenworth(?) tractor. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/ulrichtruck1.html> They have stood up very well over the years and show no signs of "rot", so Ulrich must have used good quality materials. I agree that they were very good for their day, but if you compare them to current Kibri, etc. plastic, they look pretty crude. Even the early Revell Ford's of the same era look better. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revelllindberg.html#media> I guess my point is that, except for some of us "old timers", I don't think that there would be much of a market for the old Ulrich trucks, especially at today's prices. Mike On 2/14/2012 6:17 PM, John H wrote: > Ah, no. > > There is a message on the "Trucks" page indicting that all production > has stopped due to rising costs in China. They further state that the > tooling for the Mack and the trailers is in China and the Kenworth > tooling is in the US. They also say the tooling is for sale. Had I any > money..... This isn't injection molding so I think (strong emphasis on > the word think as I really don't know) that diecasting metal can be done > on limited production basis. If so I wopuld be happy to do so with those > trucks. > > But it's most likely another lost cause. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18371	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Varney Celluloid Passenger Cars

Attachments : IMG_7690.JPG IMG_7688.JPG IMG_7685.JPG Moving ahead slowly. Have some of the roofs painted gray. None of these cars that look B&O, the Red that look Pennsy and the two tone grey that looks like NYC has no Railroad name printed on any of the cars. They do have things like Baggage, Railway Post Office, Diner etc. pre lettered on the cars. As I am now starting to look at the celluloid sides to put on I have notice some problems. The original builder cut some a little to short, on a slant and if you look closely a the last 2 pictures you will notice that part of the top silver line going from the N in Pullman has be cut off on a slant. This was not the best set to redo but hard to find anything 74 years old that is perfect. Also a couple of the sides ( not shown ) have the blue color slightly faded or worn away. When I finished I will have to show the best side for viewing as I look for a couple of better sides which might take awhile. When I finally attach the sides I will be using a contact cement that I can get the poorer ones off to replace. ( I just have the sides lying on the bodies for the pictures. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18372	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger Cars [3 Attachments]

Hi Jim, They are coming along very nicely. Thanks for allowing us to share your pleasure. Jake Bechtel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18373	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Attachments : selley-laconia.jpg -- I have a Selley similar short car that is cast of zamac? and has many parts. The Laconia and Walthers are quite different. Roger Aultman -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ============= The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they acquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've been wrong before). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geo Stahlberg" <mermaidnc@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Ulrich made a 'sierra' coach, formerly Lacomia, i beleive. george ________________________________ From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18374	From: Glenn	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock [1 Attachment]

Originally the Sierra cars were made by Laconia, and/or Binlkey. Back then Selley was getting a reputation for rubber-mold copies in lead. As an example, figures that Weston sold for $1.00 painted, Selley sold for 10 cents unpainted. they had lots of copy parts. Sort of fitting that Walthers took them over. gj -----Original Message----- From: raul@... Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:55 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Don Dellmann Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock [1 Attachment] -- I have a Selley similar short car that is cast of zamac? and has many parts. The Laconia and Walthers are quite different. Roger Aultman -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ============= The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they acquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've been wrong before). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geo Stahlberg" <mermaidnc@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Ulrich made a 'sierra' coach, formerly Lacomia, i beleive. george ________________________________ From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18375	From: John H	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

I did a lot of surfing around web and have determined (at least to my satisfaction) that the Walthers/Ulrich car was the Laconia/Binkely car. Besides the more complicated assembly instructions of the Selley car, the window arrangements are not the same. Plus there are other detail differences. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <raul@...> wrote: > > > -- > I have a Selley similar short car that is cast of zamac? and has many parts. The Laconia and Walthers are quite different. Roger Aultman > > > > -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > ============= > The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they > acquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've > been wrong before). > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18376	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Other Celluloid passenger cars

Attachments : IMG_7692.JPG IMG_7691.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Other Celluloid passenger cars Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:22:23 -0500 From: To: Well I found out you can teach an old dog new tricks. I had always thought there were only three colors for the FULL size Celluloid sided passenger cars. The pre war sets that look like B&O and Pennsy and the post war set that looks like NYC. However even though I have Spanagel's Guide to Varney trains I never really "read" the section on these cars . More interested is steam, tenders, diesel and oddities like the Aero Train and the pre war electric engine. . I see they also made a pre war set that resembles the S P Daylight. I've sent pictures so you can see the difference. First picture is a set of mint baggage sides that are Pennsy like in color. Second picture is a Railway Mail Car That I redid that closely resembles the colors of S P Daylight. You could get 8 car sets of each. Also so there is no confusion you could by a 3 car set of "shorty" cars of the same materials pre painted to resemble C&NW ( yellow and green ). Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18377	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

My memory plays tricks sometimes-- but I recall 410M model RR paints and it SEEMS that they were from Ulrich. As for the Chinese. None of our products are made there but some friends in the business are experiencing not only VERY increased prices but VERY increased minimum runs (while sales potential on a run is shrinking) and some Chinese manufacturers (biggest one in particular) "expelling" most smaller importer / custonmers-- even including some big names too. Its not DO DO it's WON'T DO. One of the biggest has non-Chinese big business financing making demands that are uncompromising to the kind of market model railroading is. But then, WE are experiencing VERY increased costs too. Moldwork doubled or tripled in last decade, styrene (made of petroleum) increased 50% in last year, brass etching is up 30% lsast six months and shipping costs.... --in USA. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Ah, no. > > There is a message on the "Trucks" page indicting that all production has stopped due to rising costs in China. They further state that the tooling for the Mack and the trailers is in China and the Kenworth tooling is in the US. They also say the tooling is for sale. Had I any money..... This isn't injection molding so I think (strong emphasis on the word think as I really don't know) that diecasting metal can be done on limited production basis. If so I wopuld be happy to do so with those trucks. > > But it's most likely another lost cause. > > Funny but last week there was a big discussion concerning Athearns new GP38-2 on the Diesel group. Some there seemed to think that the rising costs of Chineae production is a bunch of doo-doo invented by the manufacturers/importers to justify higher prices. If so, then why are some like Ulrich discontinuating production? > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> wrote: > > > > Cool. It does look like they are still offering the original trucks and trailers, which makes sense.... the original freight cars are all pretty much obsolete now and wouldn't be much of a market. > > > > That drop bottom gondola was one of the nicest diecast cars I ever saw, with the operating hatches. I have two Challenger Imports brass GS gondolas, as well as a bunch of the new tool Red Caboose plastic ones.... none of them have operating doors, although that's not really necessary. I think the Detail Associates GS gondola kit (quite a project to build I've heard) had separate doors that could be posed, but not sure if they actually "operate". > > > > Tyco also had operating hopper cars in the 1960s. They had a clamshell type of door that was held shut by gravity. You could buy a "coal unloader" ramp with a gizmo that would flip open the clamshells as you pushed the car over it, and unload into a bin below. The main problem with this arrangement is that lots of other things would also cause the clamshells to open up.... > > > > Andy > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18378	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

I thought that the 410M paints were from MDC. They were really super fast drying!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18379	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock [1 Attachment]

On 2/15/2012 11:55 AM, raul@... wrote: The right hand sheet shown in that photo also shows the name Binkley at the top. I know at least one of the handful of cars that I have from that series is under the Binkley name. -- Rick Jones Hat Check Girl: "Goodness, what beautiful diamonds." Maudie Triplett: "Goodness had nothing to do with it." -"Night After Night"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18380	From: Glenn	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

well, they did come in similar bottles-- gj -----Original Message----- From: Jacob Bechtel Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:25 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock I thought that the 410M paints were from MDC. They were really super fast drying! ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18381	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Don   Selley had their own shorty metal passenger cars - with more gee-gaws and trim parts.  I think they called them the "Cinder Queens".   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:36 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they acquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've been wrong before). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geo Stahlberg" <mermaidnc@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Ulrich made a 'sierra' coach, formerly Lacomia, i beleive. george ________________________________ From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when they went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, offset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a 30' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the trailer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then re-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers ownership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues other than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? Who was Ulrich originally? I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that the detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is pretty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored yellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange Walthers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, or prior to the die cast. Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking sawdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, but that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite period when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv Athearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18382	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

I seem to remember 410M paints being manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:25 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock I thought that the 410M paints were from MDC. They were really super fast drying! ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18383	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Burd Model Railroads

Hi, all, I saw the following lot for sale on eBay. It includes 2 Megow kits and one, a UP boxcar, that is in a box labeled Burd Model Railroads: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model-Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466  I had never heard of the latter, and I didn't see any info at HO Seeker, either. Does anyone have any history on this company? Is it the same as the Burd that apparently made airplane kits? BTW, the sale ends in a couple hours, in case anyone is interested. (I have nothing to do with the sale, just thought the lot interesting). Harry

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18384	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

> > I seem to remember 410M paints being manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. My memory of 410M is that it was labeled Roundhouse or MDC, and it had a smell that would kill every living thing within a 20 foot radius if you left the cap off. A very potent acetone-like smell. The stuff was not plastic compatible in fact, like acetone, you could probably have used it for glue on plastic. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18385	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

That is my memory also Andy. In fact, I seem to recall that it was actually labeled "Roundhouse" by about '53 or '54. That stuff dried so fast that it didn't have time to penetrate into paper car sides! And boy, you better not be using cheap brushes to paint with! If you used a fine sable brush and worked quickly, you could brush paint a loco with nary a single brush mark on the finsihed job. Jake Bechtel On 2/16/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: >> >> I seem to remember 410M paints being manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. > > My memory of 410M is that it was labeled Roundhouse or MDC, and it had a > smell that would kill every living thing within a 20 foot radius if you left > the cap off. A very potent acetone-like smell. The stuff was not plastic > compatible in fact, like acetone, you could probably have used it for glue > on plastic. > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18386	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

As do I. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Dipping" <richarddipping@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock I seem to remember 410M paints being manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. Richard.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18387	From: ablecynic	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

I have the Selley combine and coach and they have all the details. They are also quite heavy, but if you ran just the two of them together I suspect even a smaller loco could handle them. I also have a Binkley coach of similar vintage but it has wood sides and cast ends, making it quite a bit lighter than the Selley. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Don > > Selley had their own shorty metal passenger cars - with more gee-gaws and trim parts. I think they called them the "Cinder Queens". > > Richard. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18388	From: ablecynic	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Richard, Here is one of the Selley cars from eBay. I have one like this and noted that the left and right sides don't mesh too well on the roofline and would take a fair amount of putty and sanding to get it to look as good as the photo in the instructions. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Selley-Die-Cast-Model-Kit-Old-Timer-Shorty-Coach-/250995504669?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a707f761d Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Don > > Selley had their own shorty metal passenger cars - with more gee-gaws and trim parts. I think they called them the "Cinder Queens". > > Richard. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:36 am > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock > > > The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they > cquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've > een wrong before). > Don > Don Dellmann > on.dellmann@... > ttp://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > ttp://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > wner > ttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > ttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > ----- Original Message ----- > rom: "Geo Stahlberg" <mermaidnc@...> > o: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > ent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:06 PM > ubject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock > > lrich made a 'sierra' coach, formerly Lacomia, i beleive. > eorge > > _______________________________ > rom: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> > o: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > ent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:39 PM > ubject: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock > > Does anybody know a lineage on this company, when they got started, when > hey went out of business, and have some line on their total product output? > I'm familiar with their GS drop bottom gondola, rib side 2-bay hopper, > ffset 2-bay hopper, offset 3-bay hopper, flat car, and I know they made a > 0' trailer and truck. Mostly die cast except tinplate on the sides of the > railer. They originated in the 50s and then seemed to disappear, and then > e-appear - at least partly - in the mid-late 1970s under Walthers > wnership. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the Walthers re-issues > ther than the box, and they had newer style trucks with RP25 wheel sets. > When did Walthers pick up the line, and when did they drop it? > Who was Ulrich originally? > I think they made some neat stuff, different from the other diecast in that > he detail level was higher, and crisper. In general the vintage stuff is > retty solid, you don't see broken castings like you do with so many others. > I've seen at least four box styles: a pale green box, multicolored > ellow/orange with the picture of a freight yard on the front, the orange > althers-era box, and the red box used for trucks. > Seems like they may have also done some wood stuff either at the same time, > r prior to the die cast. > Never been a whittler... my interest in vintage stops when we start talking > awdust, I'll put up with the wood floors in Athearn's tinplate box cars, > ut that's as far back as I go. Seems like there was a brief and finite > eriod when metal dominated HO rolling stock, from post-WWII up until Irv > thearn and the rest of the world embraced plastic and never looked back. > Andy > > > ------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18389	From: Jay	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list

Hi Harry, Yes, the side of the box states"Manufactured by the Burd Model Airplane Co. Baltimore, Maryland USA" Possibly an early Kramer brothers company? I have one of their Erie RR 40' boxcar kits and not much to say about it as likely was intended as an inexpensive, entry level kit selling for 25 cents as printed on the bottom of the box also indicating "(no hardware included)" My Kit No. R-5 Erie consists of a milled solid wood 40' boxcar body, printed bc red sides and ends with black printed rivets, (not embossed), Erie road number 75891, two color black and white small Erie rotated square herald. Die cut cardboard sheets with door panels, ladders and roof ribs and roof walk die cut in one piece. Simple wood strip underframe, glassine envelope with staples for steps. Glass vial of paint with cork stopper - still liquid inside - not known if part of kit or an extra. My box, in poor shape (no scanner) lists the following kits avaialble: Box Cars R-1 Santa Fe R-2 Union Pacific R-3 B&O R-4 Pennsylvania R-5 Erie R-6 Delaware Lackawanna R-7 Lehigh Valley R-8 Chedspeake & Ohio Refrigerator Cars R-50 Pacific Fruit Express R-51 Western Fruit Express R-52 Burlington Refirgerat R-53 Merchants Transit Dispatch R-54 Fruit Growers Express R-55 American Refrigerator Transit R-56 Northern Refrigerator (poat of box missing) I saw that lot too, and was tempted to buy it as besides the Burd kit, those Megow kits in the older boxes looked nice. But a lot of nice old items coming up for sale now and my budget streteched to the max, lol. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > Hi, all, > > I saw the following lot for sale on eBay. It includes 2 Megow kits and > one, a UP boxcar, that is in a box labeled Burd Model Railroads: > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model-\ > Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466 > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model\ > -Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466> > > I had never heard of the latter, and I didn't see any info at HO Seeker, > either. Does anyone have any history on this company? Is it the same as > the Burd that apparently made airplane kits? > > BTW, the sale ends in a couple hours, in case anyone is interested. (I > have nothing to do with the sale, just thought the lot interesting). > > Harry >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18390	From: Jay	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list

Hi Harry, all, I missed part of my description of the die cut roof ribs and roofwalk "support, resembling a fish skeleton and providing support for the scribed wood roofwalk." W Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Harry, > > Yes, the side of the box states"Manufactured by the Burd Model Airplane Co. Baltimore, Maryland USA" Possibly an early Kramer brothers company? > > I have one of their Erie RR 40' boxcar kits and not much to say about it as likely was intended as an inexpensive, entry level kit selling for 25 cents as printed on the bottom of the box also indicating "(no hardware included)" > > My Kit No. R-5 Erie consists of a milled solid wood 40' boxcar body, printed bc red sides and ends with black printed rivets, (not embossed), Erie road number 75891, two color black and white small Erie rotated square herald. Die cut cardboard sheets with door panels, ladders and roof ribs and roof walk die cut in one piece. Simple wood strip underframe, glassine envelope with staples for steps. Glass vial of paint with cork stopper - still liquid inside - not known if part of kit or an extra. > > My box, in poor shape (no scanner) lists the following kits avaialble: > > Box Cars > R-1 Santa Fe > R-2 Union Pacific > R-3 B&O > R-4 Pennsylvania > R-5 Erie > R-6 Delaware Lackawanna > R-7 Lehigh Valley > R-8 Chedspeake & Ohio > > Refrigerator Cars > R-50 Pacific Fruit Express > R-51 Western Fruit Express > R-52 Burlington Refirgerat > R-53 Merchants Transit Dispatch > R-54 Fruit Growers Express > R-55 American Refrigerator Transit > R-56 Northern Refrigerator (poat of box missing) > > I saw that lot too, and was tempted to buy it as besides the Burd kit, those Megow kits in the older boxes looked nice. But a lot of nice old items coming up for sale now and my budget streteched to the max, lol. > > W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> wrote: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > I saw the following lot for sale on eBay. It includes 2 Megow kits and > > one, a UP boxcar, that is in a box labeled Burd Model Railroads: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model-\ > > Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466 > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model\ > > -Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466> > > > > I had never heard of the latter, and I didn't see any info at HO Seeker, > > either. Does anyone have any history on this company? Is it the same as > > the Burd that apparently made airplane kits? > > > > BTW, the sale ends in a couple hours, in case anyone is interested. (I > > have nothing to do with the sale, just thought the lot interesting). > > > > Harry > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18391	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Just came across an Ulrich outside-braced, die cast box car on ebay. Add one more to the list. It's similar to the OB car made by MDC, which may be why it was never re-issued in the Walthers era. I'm still looking for an Erie 2-bay offset hopper to round out my "Dad's Freight Train" as well as an Athearn Southern wood-deck flat car. There's one on ebay now but it has a nasty twist in it that I don't want to begin to deal with. I need to pull out my Ulrich NKP 3-bay offset car (from about 1979/Walthers) and compare to prototype photos. NKP had bunches of similar cars but like the 2-bay there were variations. Wouldn't it be ironic if the 50-year old Ulrich model is actually correct for NKP, when there's no correct styrene model available? Intermountain is finally going to do the "Alternate Standard" 2-bay offset, which will make a lot of NKP and Erie modelers happy. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18392	From: ford35lh	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Richard, correct on the "Cinder Queen" . I have the pair still in the boxes,no deterioration or warpage. Selley small castings were painted and sold by Ralph Dillon Studios,somewhere in Florida. I wish I had kept their catalogs when they went out of business. Remember "send an SSAE". ford --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Don > > Selley had their own shorty metal passenger cars - with more gee-gaws and trim parts. I think they called them the "Cinder Queens". > > Richard. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:36 am > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock > > > The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they > cquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've > een wrong before). > Don > Don Dellmann > on.dellmann@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18393	From: Jay	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: More Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list

Hi all, I confirmed that Burd was an early company belonging to Sol and Lou Kramer from this webpage, http://collectair.com/kitannex2.html which states in part, "The Burd Model Airplane Co. of Baltimore was started by Sol and Lon Kramer in February 1935. Located on Pratt Street up to mid-1938, the company's production was hampered by lack of facilities - Burd moved to the Oliver St. location by September 1938...The company produced a wide line of kits ranging from scale flying models in wingspans from 16- inches to 5-feet, 8-inch solid models, rubber contest models, and a few gas models. The company disappeared in 1943 and the Kramers started the Kramer Bros. Hobby Distributors and later the Life-Like line." W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Harry, all, I missed part of my description of the die cut roof ribs and roofwalk "support, resembling a fish skeleton and providing support for the scribed wood roofwalk." W Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi Harry, > > > > Yes, the side of the box states"Manufactured by the Burd Model Airplane Co. Baltimore, Maryland USA" Possibly an early Kramer brothers company? > > > > I have one of their Erie RR 40' boxcar kits and not much to say about it as likely was intended as an inexpensive, entry level kit selling for 25 cents as printed on the bottom of the box also indicating "(no hardware included)" > > > > My Kit No. R-5 Erie consists of a milled solid wood 40' boxcar body, printed bc red sides and ends with black printed rivets, (not embossed), Erie road number 75891, two color black and white small Erie rotated square herald. Die cut cardboard sheets with door panels, ladders and roof ribs and roof walk die cut in one piece. Simple wood strip underframe, glassine envelope with staples for steps. Glass vial of paint with cork stopper - still liquid inside - not known if part of kit or an extra. > > > > My box, in poor shape (no scanner) lists the following kits avaialble: > > > > Box Cars > > R-1 Santa Fe > > R-2 Union Pacific > > R-3 B&O > > R-4 Pennsylvania > > R-5 Erie > > R-6 Delaware Lackawanna > > R-7 Lehigh Valley > > R-8 Chedspeake & Ohio > > > > Refrigerator Cars > > R-50 Pacific Fruit Express > > R-51 Western Fruit Express > > R-52 Burlington Refirgerat > > R-53 Merchants Transit Dispatch > > R-54 Fruit Growers Express > > R-55 American Refrigerator Transit > > R-56 Northern Refrigerator (poat of box missing) > > > > I saw that lot too, and was tempted to buy it as besides the Burd kit, those Megow kits in the older boxes looked nice. But a lot of nice old items coming up for sale now and my budget streteched to the max, lol. > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, all, > > > > > > I saw the following lot for sale on eBay. It includes 2 Megow kits and > > > one, a UP boxcar, that is in a box labeled Burd Model Railroads: > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model-\ > > > Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466 > > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model\ > > > -Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466> > > > > > > I had never heard of the latter, and I didn't see any info at HO Seeker, > > > either. Does anyone have any history on this company? Is it the same as > > > the Burd that apparently made airplane kits? > > > > > > BTW, the sale ends in a couple hours, in case anyone is interested. (I > > > have nothing to do with the sale, just thought the lot interesting). > > > > > > Harry > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18394	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Ford-   I also have a pair (somewhere on a shelf in my "hobby shop" downstairs) which I obtained used some years ago.  They may actually be cast in lead alloy.  I don't think this will warp like zamac does.  They certainly seem heavy!   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: ford35lh <ford35lh@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 3:46 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock Richard, correct on the "Cinder Queen" . I have the pair still in the boxes,no deterioration or warpage. Selley small castings were painted and sold by Ralph Dillon Studios,somewhere in Florida. I wish I had kept their catalogs when they went out of business. Remember "send an SSAE". ford --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Don > > Selley had their own shorty metal passenger cars - with more gee-gaws and trim parts. I think they called them the "Cinder Queens". > > Richard. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:36 am > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ulrich Rolling Stock > > > The Sierra cars were made by Walthers under the Ulrich name after they > cquired it. I thought they might have originally been Selley. (but I've > een wrong before). > Don > Don Dellmann > on.dellmann@... ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18395	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Lionel F-3a Cheapo

On 2/17/2012 9:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > I have been looking for certain items to add to my collection > but things I want are scarce. I broke down and bought item > 280826765782 Vintage C&O Engine #31025. Type 4 Marx like > production as Gilbert contracted with the same company in the far east > that produced Marx Locomotives. Hope I can afford the price. It fits > into my collection as it was made around 1957 when Lionel started > using 5 digit numbers. This is the common engine along with same > engine with yellow strip. If this had been a different color plastic > painted blue with a yellow stripe it would be the hardest to find. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18396	From: erieberk	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

The 410M paints WERE manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. It was advertised as "The first plastic paint developed specifically for model railroads in authentic railroad colors." and was called "Plasticate." The paint was offered in 48cc (1 3/4 ounce) round bottles and was labeled as "401M" in large letters, with "Stewart-Lundahl Company" on the rear, as shown in photos in their catalog. Their 1950 catalog lists 14 different colors, a Clear Gloss (included in their paint color listing) in the same 1 3/4 ounce jar, and a Thinner (also included in their paint color listing) in both the 1 3/4 ounce jar and a 1/2 pint can. Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog includes these 410M paints, but as a selection of only 13 different colors, leaving out the Socony Red and listing a "Caboose White" instead of Caboose Red (which she lists for other paint manufacturers). Either a mistake or a change in Stewart-Lundahl's products mid-year. but it shows how early these paints were being produced. By 1953, MDC/Roundhouse displays these same paints in their catalogs as they used Stewart-Lundahl as their paint supplier, selling the same "Plasticate" paint in the same 28cc (1/34 ounce) jars, with all of the colors being described identically, but now labeled as "Roundhouse" paint instead of 410M paint. Roundhouse added several more colors since 410M was first produced. Besides being offered as such in the LHS, these paints were used to finish all of the sides of their die cast metal freight car and caboose kits, their H0 and 0 scale switch stands and marker lamps. Ulrich continued with the 410M line of paints after the MDC discontinued manufacturing their die cast metal line of car kits up until Walthers took over that line. The 410M colors and other paint supply products offered by Stewart-Lundahl Company were: R-1 -- Flat Black R-2 -- Box Car Red R-3 -- Reefer Yellow R-4 -- Reefer Orange R-5 -- Tuscan Red R-6 -- Clear Gloss R-7 -- Pullman Green R-8 -- Coach Green R-9 -- Caboose Red R-10 - Thinner R-12 - Roof Brown R-13 - White R-14 - Blue R-15 - Gray AT-20 -Tank Yellow D-21 - Socony Red They advertise the Clear Gloss as; "A semi-gloss finish may be produced by adding 410M clear gloss to paint before using." They also advertise that; "410M is a plastic coating, not a lacquer, Use only 410M thinner to thin paint or clean brushes." As there is no R-11 catalog number included in their paint listing, this may have been the Caboose White that Model R.R. Equipment Corp. carried, but unless someone can dig up a jar of it somewhere, we may never know. Roundhouse/MDC's listing of the 410M paints (under their own brand name) includes: RP-100 -- White RP-200 -- Refer Yellow (their spelling) RP-201 -- Refer Orange ( " " ) RP-202 -- Tank Car Yellow RP-300 -- Tuscan Red RP-301 -- Box Car Red RP_302 -- Caboose Red RP-303 -- Socony Red RP-304 -- Roof Brown RP-305 -- Light Tuscan Red (not an original 410M color) RP-400 -- Gray RP-401 -- Aluminum (not an original 410M color) RP-402 -- Cement Gray (not an original 410M color) RP-500 -- Pullman Green RP-501 -- Coach Green RP-502 -- Medium Green (not an original 410M color) RP-600 -- Blue RP-700 -- Black RP-800 -- Clear Gloss RP-801 -- Clear Flat (not original 410M) RP-900 -- Metal Primer 2 oz. jar (not a 410M product) RC-100 -- Roundhouse Cement 2 oz. jar (not a 410M product) RT-100 -- Thinner 2 oz. jar RT-101 -- Thinner 8 oz. can RT-102 -- Thinner 16 oz. can Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > I seem to remember 410M paints being manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. > > Richard. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:25 pm > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock > > > I thought that the 410M paints were from MDC. They were really super > ast drying! > > ----------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18397	From: erieberk	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

This Ulrich outside braced "die-cast" box car may be similar to MDC's outside braced box cars but only the braces are die-cast. The sides are pre-painted and lettered wood -- IF what is being advertised on eBay is Ulrich. MDC had the whole side as being die-cast (as two pieces, right & left). Ulrich made a wood sheathed reefer as well as these outside braced box cars produced in 13 different road names. They WERE all reissued by Walthers, but most were dropped by the mid-1970's. If you're curious as to what was made, just refer to my Ulrich spread sheet in the files. Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > Just came across an Ulrich outside-braced, die cast box car on ebay. Add one more to the list. It's similar to the OB car made by MDC, which may be why it was never re-issued in the Walthers era. > > I'm still looking for an Erie 2-bay offset hopper to round out my "Dad's Freight Train" as well as an Athearn Southern wood-deck flat car. There's one on ebay now but it has a nasty twist in it that I don't want to begin to deal with. > > I need to pull out my Ulrich NKP 3-bay offset car (from about 1979/Walthers) and compare to prototype photos. NKP had bunches of similar cars but like the 2-bay there were variations. Wouldn't it be ironic if the 50-year old Ulrich model is actually correct for NKP, when there's no correct styrene model available? Intermountain is finally going to do the "Alternate Standard" 2-bay offset, which will make a lot of NKP and Erie modelers happy. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18398	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Varney Celluloid Needed

Attachments : IMG_7696.JPG I realize it might be next to impossible to find but thought I'd give it a try. I need some better sides for my B&O looking celluloid sides. The ones shown have areas and are showing a whitish area that are worn away. All the others not shown are almost mint and showing the colors vividly. By chance anyone having these shown, even one, get in touch with me off site with price. It will improve the over all look of the set if I could find any. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18399	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

There were two lines of 410M paints...  One was for plastics(this was the newer of the two with no especially bad odor)...  One was for wood, metal and other surfaces( had a very strong intoxicating odor).  There were some different colors in the two lines.  One did not exactly duplicate the other. Don Staton in VA --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2/18/2012 2:40 PM, erieberk wrote:   The 410M paints WERE manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. It was advertised as "The first plastic paint developed specifically for model railroads in authentic railroad colors." and was called "Plasticate." The paint was offered in 48cc (1 3/4 ounce) round bottles and was labeled as "401M" in large letters, with "Stewart-Lundahl Company" on the rear, as shown in photos in their catalog. Their 1950 catalog lists 14 different colors, a Clear Gloss (included in their paint color listing) in the same 1 3/4 ounce jar, and a Thinner (also included in their paint color listing) in both the 1 3/4 ounce jar and a 1/2 pint can. Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog includes these 410M paints, but as a selection of only 13 different colors, leaving out the Socony Red and listing a "Caboose White" instead of Caboose Red (which she lists for other paint manufacturers). Either a mistake or a change in Stewart-Lundahl's products mid-year. but it shows how early these paints were being produced. By 1953, MDC/Roundhouse displays these same paints in their catalogs as they used Stewart-Lundahl as their paint supplier, selling the same "Plasticate" paint in the same 28cc (1/34 ounce) jars, with all of the colors being described identically, but now labeled as "Roundhouse" paint instead of 410M paint. Roundhouse added several more colors since 410M was first produced. Besides being offered as such in the LHS, these paints were used to finish all of the sides of their die cast metal freight car and caboose kits, their H0 and 0 scale switch stands and marker lamps. Ulrich continued with the 410M line of paints after the MDC discontinued manufacturing their die cast metal line of car kits up until Walthers took over that line. The 410M colors and other paint supply products offered by Stewart-Lundahl Company were: R-1 -- Flat Black R-2 -- Box Car Red R-3 -- Reefer Yellow R-4 -- Reefer Orange R-5 -- Tuscan Red R-6 -- Clear Gloss R-7 -- Pullman Green R-8 -- Coach Green R-9 -- Caboose Red R-10 - Thinner R-12 - Roof Brown R-13 - White R-14 - Blue R-15 - Gray AT-20 -Tank Yellow D-21 - Socony Red They advertise the Clear Gloss as; "A semi-gloss finish may be produced by adding 410M clear gloss to paint before using." They also advertise that; "410M is a plastic coating, not a lacquer, Use only 410M thinner to thin paint or clean brushes." As there is no R-11 catalog number included in their paint listing, this may have been the Caboose White that Model R.R. Equipment Corp. carried, but unless someone can dig up a jar of it somewhere, we may never know. Roundhouse/MDC's listing of the 410M paints (under their own brand name) includes: RP-100 -- White RP-200 -- Refer Yellow (their spelling) RP-201 -- Refer Orange ( " " ) RP-202 -- Tank Car Yellow RP-300 -- Tuscan Red RP-301 -- Box Car Red RP_302 -- Caboose Red RP-303 -- Socony Red RP-304 -- Roof Brown RP-305 -- Light Tuscan Red (not an original 410M color) RP-400 -- Gray RP-401 -- Aluminum (not an original 410M color) RP-402 -- Cement Gray (not an original 410M color) RP-500 -- Pullman Green RP-501 -- Coach Green RP-502 -- Medium Green (not an original 410M color) RP-600 -- Blue RP-700 -- Black RP-800 -- Clear Gloss RP-801 -- Clear Flat (not original 410M) RP-900 -- Metal Primer 2 oz. jar (not a 410M product) RC-100 -- Roundhouse Cement 2 oz. jar (not a 410M product) RT-100 -- Thinner 2 oz. jar RT-101 -- Thinner 8 oz. can RT-102 -- Thinner 16 oz. can Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > I seem to remember 410M paints being manufactured by Stewart-Lundahl. > > Richard. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:25 pm > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock > > > I thought that the 410M paints were from MDC. They were really super > ast drying! > > ----------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18400	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Fwd: AF/Gilbert not Lionel

Attachments : IMG_7703.JPG IMG_7701.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: AF/Gilbert not Lionel Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:04:13 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: All Vintage HO Members Last night I won an engine on eBay and in a hurry I mislabeled it as Lionel. It is in fact American Flyer/Gilbert HO as written by Gary Klein in his AF/Gilbert book. All other information I feel correct. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18401	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ulrich Rolling Stock

Don, I suspected that there might have been two different 410M paints, but I hadn't seen any info that indicated this. I remember using it, and the strong smell it gave off, but I don't know which base it had. Thanks for clarifying this. It answers a few questions I had in mind. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18402	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: AF/Gilbert not Lionel [2 Attachments]

I'm looking forward to seeing your photos after you finish cleaning it up. I think the last time that I saw one was about 1981 or so. Jake Bechtel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18403	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: More Re: Burd Model Railroads & kit list

Thanks for all the info and research, Jay! Of course, then I had to wander off into reading about airplane models for awhile. :-) I'll have to keep an eye out for one of the kits to try in the future - I just picked up a partially built Ideal caboose to finish, so tempting as the three kits were, I passed on them, too. Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I confirmed that Burd was an early company belonging to Sol and Lou Kramer from this webpage, http://collectair.com/kitannex2.html which states in part, "The Burd Model Airplane Co. of Baltimore was started by Sol and Lon Kramer in February 1935. Located on Pratt Street up to mid-1938, the company's production was hampered by lack of facilities - Burd moved to the Oliver St. location by September 1938...The company produced a wide line of kits ranging from scale flying models in wingspans from 16- inches to 5-feet, 8-inch solid models, rubber contest models, and a few gas models. The company disappeared in 1943 and the Kramers started the Kramer Bros. Hobby Distributors and later the Life-Like line." > > W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" the_plainsman@ wrote: > > > > Hi Harry, all, I missed part of my description of the die cut roof ribs and roofwalk "support, resembling a fish skeleton and providing support for the scribed wood roofwalk." W Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Harry, > > > > > > Yes, the side of the box states"Manufactured by the Burd Model Airplane Co. Baltimore, Maryland USA" Possibly an early Kramer brothers company? > > > > > > I have one of their Erie RR 40' boxcar kits and not much to say about it as likely was intended as an inexpensive, entry level kit selling for 25 cents as printed on the bottom of the box also indicating "(no hardware included)" > > > > > > My Kit No. R-5 Erie consists of a milled solid wood 40' boxcar body, printed bc red sides and ends with black printed rivets, (not embossed), Erie road number 75891, two color black and white small Erie rotated square herald. Die cut cardboard sheets with door panels, ladders and roof ribs and roof walk die cut in one piece. Simple wood strip underframe, glassine envelope with staples for steps. Glass vial of paint with cork stopper - still liquid inside - not known if part of kit or an extra. > > > > > > My box, in poor shape (no scanner) lists the following kits avaialble: > > > > > > Box Cars > > > R-1 Santa Fe > > > R-2 Union Pacific > > > R-3 B&O > > > R-4 Pennsylvania > > > R-5 Erie > > > R-6 Delaware Lackawanna > > > R-7 Lehigh Valley > > > R-8 Chedspeake & Ohio > > > > > > Refrigerator Cars > > > R-50 Pacific Fruit Express > > > R-51 Western Fruit Express > > > R-52 Burlington Refirgerat > > > R-53 Merchants Transit Dispatch > > > R-54 Fruit Growers Express > > > R-55 American Refrigerator Transit > > > R-56 Northern Refrigerator (poat of box missing) > > > > > > I saw that lot too, and was tempted to buy it as besides the Burd kit, those Megow kits in the older boxes looked nice. But a lot of nice old items coming up for sale now and my budget streteched to the max, lol. > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all, > > > > > > > > I saw the following lot for sale on eBay. It includes 2 Megow kits and > > > > one, a UP boxcar, that is in a box labeled Burd Model Railroads: > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model-\ \ > > > > Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466 > > > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Three-One-Vintage-Burd-and-Two-Megows-Model\ \ > > > > -Train-Kits-/200711861350?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebb5bf466> > > > > > > > > I had never heard of the latter, and I didn't see any info at HO Seeker, > > > > either. Does anyone have any history on this company? Is it the same as > > > > the Burd that apparently made airplane kits? > > > > > > > > BTW, the sale ends in a couple hours, in case anyone is interested. (I > > > > have nothing to do with the sale, just thought the lot interesting). > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18404	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: New Acquisitions

Yesterday was the Greater Houston Train Show sponsored by my club, the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I was able to grab a handful of golden oldies from a few of the dealers. First on the stack is a metal Athearn round top boxcar painted for Norfolk & Western. This was all crammed into a small zip lock bag, no box. It's not a Menzies version; no mention of Menzies anywhere on the instruction sheet. There's a pair of plastic, rigid frame trucks in a bag in there too, but I didn't think Athearn was doing those at the time they were making the metal kits, so I'm guessing it was added in later by someone. Next I have an all metal Roundhouse 40' high side gondola painted for UP, kit #G-201T. Both sides have some bow to them, one just slight and the other more pronounced. I'll need to be careful trying to straighten those. This one comes with trucks that are still sealed in their bag so I don't know their condition. Next is an Ulrich GS gondola with sides painted for Minneapolis & St. Louis. There's a pair of metal sprung T-frame Bettendorf trucks in here with plastic wheel sets that have the old pizza cutter flanges. Those wheels need to get replaced but the frames are very nice. I gotta wonder about the color of the sides though. It's a very saturated green color. Did M&StL really paint their cars that bright of green? I don't know if I can find anything to match in Floquil colors, which is what I normally use. Then I have two kits from a manufacturer with which I am not familiar: Prototype Models. These are classic-style wood and metal craftsman kits. One is a PFE reefer and the other is a Rock Island reefer. The PFE kit has been started, with the floor, ends, roof and sides assembled, and it looks like a very good job was done with that so far. There's a pair of Walthers T-frame Bettendorf trucks in a plastic box inside this kit. I just noticed the foam was starting to deteriorate in there and threw it in the trash. The RI reefer has not been started and hasn't any trucks. Both kits have a set of very nice detail parts and should build up into some very fine models. Next is a Taurus products PFE reefer. Not exactly vintage since these are still available on and off, but I classify nearly anything that uses wood and metal craftsman construction as vintage, even if it's the latest kit from George Sellios. The very curious thing here is that the instructions in this kit cover both a PFE and a RI reefer. And the series given for both of these on the instructions - PFE Class R-30-13 and RI 67750-67999 - exactly match the labels on the ends of the 2 Prototype Models boxes. So did the Prototype Models kits become what is now the Taurus Products kits? Lastly, there's a Suncoast Models icing platform. Also not exactly vintage, I guess, as Walthers has an active page for them but says they are available sporadically. But the original price on the box end ($6.95) places it in the 1970s time frame compared to the current Walthers price of $51.98. This is another classic craftsman-style kit with lots of sticks of wood in the box. Now if I could only come up with a decent layout plan so I'd have somewhere to put all this stuff when I build it... -- Rick Jones "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." -Dan Quayle

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18405	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C

...made by KMT/Kumata. It's missing its gear box covers, which are easy enough to make, and a shaft bearing, which is not so easy to make. NWSL doesn't make anything close, any thoughts or leads on a source? I don't have the whole model but the drive might make a good start on a scratchbuild I've been playing with. Any help would be greatly appreciated. http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_0667.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_0664-950.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18406	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions Prototype Models

Prototype Models were produced by Bob Longo. He was based (for a while) in Danvers, MA. He made at least three kits that I know of: Rock Island Reefer, PFE Reefer and a SP Falt Car kit. The later is actually an Athearn 200 Ton Heavy Duty Flat car with extra details, decals and instructions to make the SP car. The Taurus reefer kits are the same models produced after Bob passed on. Bob also published several magzines, the most popular being Prototype Modeler. I wrote a feature article on modeling B&M SW-8 switchers for him as well as a smaller piece on B&M Baggage/Mail cars and a product review or two. Getting on 30 years ago now. Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18407	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif

The mechanisim you bought is early ALCO production (brass gears on the axels, slotted plastic motor-to-tower shaft, etc.) The good news is that almost all Japanese brass diesel imports used the same KMT gears/wheels/shafts/bearings etc. Finding a replacement bearing shouldn't be all that hard if you dig around in the left over piles at trains shows. Look for a model that someone has changed to Hobbytown or other after market drive. Good luck. Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18408	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif

Bob,  What is the ID and OD of the bushing? I may have one in my parts box. --- On Sun, 2/19/12, tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: From: tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C-855... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 11:37 AM ...made by KMT/Kumata.  It's missing its gear box covers, which are easy enough to make, and a shaft bearing, which is not so easy to make.  NWSL doesn't make anything close, any thoughts or leads on a source?  I don't have the whole model but the drive might make a good start on a scratchbuild I've been playing with.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_0667.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_0664-950.jpg ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18409	From: Jay	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

Hi Rick J., Nice find! I believe that was once the prototype freight car color for M&SL as they also had geen boxcars. In the mid-1950's one large HO manufacturer hit upon the idea of a green freight car to spark sales and soon three or four were offering all green cars. Others I can think of right now were a plastic M&StL. o.b. wood box car model by Varney and the low side MDC/Roundhouse Southern low-side gon. In fact, a couple of the manufacturers even paid extra to have Model Railraoder print their ad photos with green tint as the second color. It was a momentary craze in HO as one has to remeber that the largest four scale manufacturers - Athearn, MDC, Mantua and Varney were producing essentially the same AAR standard 40' boxcar model with few variations. I will hazard a guess that your example is one of the 2 or 3 most desirable versions of the decorated Ulrich GS gons produced during Charlie Ulrich's ownership era. Displaying a sample or each, along with the corresponding MR ad would make a nice exhibit! W. Jay W. "...Next is an Ulrich GS gondola with sides painted for Minneapolis & St. Louis. There's a pair of metal sprung T-frame Bettendorf trucks in here with plastic wheel sets that have the old pizza cutter flanges. Those wheels need to get replaced but the frames are very nice. I gotta wonder about the color of the sides though. It's a very saturated green color. Did M&StL really paint their cars that bright of green? I don't know if I can find anything to match in Floquil colors, which is what I normally use..."

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18410	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions Prototype Models

On 2/19/2012 1:45 PM, acace@... wrote: > Prototype Models were produced by Bob Longo. He was based (for a while) > in Danvers, MA. He made at least three kits that I know of: Rock Island > Reefer, PFE Reefer and a SP Falt Car kit. The later is actually an > Athearn 200 Ton Heavy Duty Flat car with extra details, decals and > instructions to make the SP car. The Taurus reefer kits are the same > models produced after Bob passed on. > > Bob also published several magzines, the most popular being Prototype > Modeler. I wrote a feature article on modeling B&M SW-8 switchers for him > as well as a smaller piece on B&M Baggage/Mail cars and a product review > or two. Getting on 30 years ago now. Thanks for that info. It seemed by comparing the 2 kits that they were just too alike to be unrelated. -- Rick Jones All of us could take a lesson from the weather - It pays no attention to criticism.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18411	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

On 2/19/2012 3:34 PM, Jay wrote: > Hi Rick J., > > Nice find! > > I believe that was once the prototype freight car color for M&SL as > they also had geen boxcars. In the mid-1950's one large HO > manufacturer hit upon the idea of a green freight car to spark sales > and soon three or four were offering all green cars. Others I can > think of right now were a plastic M&StL. o.b. wood box car model by > Varney and the low side MDC/Roundhouse Southern low-side gon. In > fact, a couple of the manufacturers even paid extra to have Model > Railraoder print their ad photos with green tint as the second > color. > > It was a momentary craze in HO as one has to remeber that the largest > four scale manufacturers - Athearn, MDC, Mantua and Varney were > producing essentially the same AAR standard 40' boxcar model with few > variations. I will hazard a guess that your example is one of the 2 > or 3 most desirable versions of the decorated Ulrich GS gons produced > during Charlie Ulrich's ownership era. > > Displaying a sample or each, along with the corresponding MR ad would > make a nice exhibit! It's just how deeply saturated the green color is that gets me. Like my neighbors lawn. I guess I need to search for some prototype color photos of M&StL cars to see if they really were that bright. -- Rick Jones Ever wonder why the sun lightens our hair but darkens our skin?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18412	From: Jay	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

Rick, Have only seen one of the models exorbantly priced at some mid-Atlantic train shows, but a M&StL modeler likens the color, at least on their box cars, as similar to Weyerhauser Green. http://www.cashgroth.com/propst/boxcar4286.html Also, could not find a photo of a "straight" M&StL GS gon, but found what appears to be one they converted to a wedge snow plow!(sixth photo down the page) http://www.cashgroth.com/mow.html W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 2/19/2012 3:34 PM, Jay wrote: > > Hi Rick J., > > > > Nice find! > > > > I believe that was once the prototype freight car color for M&SL as > > they also had geen boxcars. In the mid-1950's one large HO > > manufacturer hit upon the idea of a green freight car to spark sales > > and soon three or four were offering all green cars. Others I can > > think of right now were a plastic M&StL. o.b. wood box car model by > > Varney and the low side MDC/Roundhouse Southern low-side gon. In > > fact, a couple of the manufacturers even paid extra to have Model > > Railraoder print their ad photos with green tint as the second > > color. > > > > It was a momentary craze in HO as one has to remeber that the largest > > four scale manufacturers - Athearn, MDC, Mantua and Varney were > > producing essentially the same AAR standard 40' boxcar model with few > > variations. I will hazard a guess that your example is one of the 2 > > or 3 most desirable versions of the decorated Ulrich GS gons produced > > during Charlie Ulrich's ownership era. > > > > Displaying a sample or each, along with the corresponding MR ad would > > make a nice exhibit! > > It's just how deeply saturated the green color is that gets me. Like > my neighbors lawn. I guess I need to search for some prototype color > photos of M&StL cars to see if they really were that bright. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Ever wonder why the sun lightens our hair but darkens our skin? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18413	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Fwd: Almost Done

Attachments : IMG_7707.JPG IMG_7705.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Almost Done Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 18:03:09 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Very close to finishing my Varney Pre War set of celluloid passenger cars that are in B&O looking colors and sides. Just have to attach the celluloid sides and add a few ladders. Then bury them on a shelf to collect dust. I did run into one problem. Since some of the sides had been cut short and not straight I had to hand brush the areas where the bodies will attach to hide any wood that might show around the body edges. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18414	From: P Entingh	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif

Ray; If you aren't in a hurry or if you can't find a bearing, when I get back up north the first of May I'll crank up the old South Bend lathe and make you one. We spend the winter down here in FL. and our home up north is in upstate NY where my railroad is and shop. Phil Entingh From: Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C-855...   Bob,  What is the ID and OD of the bushing? I may have one in my parts box. --- On Sun, 2/19/12, tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: From: tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C-855... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 11:37 AM ...made by KMT/Kumata.  It's missing its gear box covers, which are easy enough to make, and a shaft bearing, which is not so easy to make.  NWSL doesn't make anything close, any thoughts or leads on a source?  I don't have the whole model but the drive might make a good start on a scratchbuild I've been playing with.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_0667.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_0664-950.jpg ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18415	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

On 2/19/2012 4:58 PM, Jay wrote: > Rick, > Have only seen one of the models exorbantly priced at some mid-Atlantic train shows, but a M&StL modeler likens the color, at least on their box cars, as similar to Weyerhauser Green. http://www.cashgroth.com/propst/boxcar4286.html > > Also, could not find a photo of a "straight" M&StL GS gon, but found what appears to be one they converted to a wedge snow plow!(sixth photo down the page) > http://www.cashgroth.com/mow.html I found a few prototype photos of green M&StL equipment. None were the GS gon like this, mostly boxcars. but the green did range from a fairly bright emerald green similar to this model to a darker, more subdued green like a spruce tree. There were also a few photos of diesels in a green and yellow scheme with the green being rather bright like this model. So I guess this color scheme is plausible at least. Finding something to match it closely for painting the unpainted parts will be a bit of a trick though. -- Rick Jones For every action, there is an equal and opposite (and more often than not counter-intuitive) governmental program.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18416	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif

________________________________ > From: Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C-855... > > >   > Bob, >  What is the ID and OD of the bushing? I may have one in my parts box. Thanks, Ray...if I'm reading my calipers right, it's .375" wide by .180 thick. The shaft is .094. Hope that helps, I certainly appreciate the effort.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18417	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif

Just like Mantua :-) ...many thanks, I'll keep that in mind. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, acace@... wrote: > > The mechanisim you bought is early ALCO production (brass gears on the > axels, slotted plastic motor-to-tower shaft, etc.) The good news is that > almost all Japanese brass diesel imports used the same KMT > gears/wheels/shafts/bearings etc. Finding a replacement bearing > shouldn't be all that hard if you dig around in the left over piles at > trains shows. Look for a model that someone has changed to Hobbytown or > other after market drive. > > Good luck. > > Dick Waite >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18418	From: cwrailman	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions

Rick, The Prototype Models were originally sold by Prototype Modeler magazine.  There were 2 letterings one for Rock Island and the other for PFE and yes they are the same cars now offered by Taurus or whatever they are called today.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > Yesterday was the Greater Houston Train Show sponsored by my club, > the San Jacinto Model Railroad Club. I was able to grab a handful of > golden oldies from a few of the dealers. > First on the stack is a metal Athearn round top boxcar painted for > Norfolk & Western. This was all crammed into a small zip lock bag, no > box. It's not a Menzies version; no mention of Menzies anywhere on the > instruction sheet. There's a pair of plastic, rigid frame trucks in a > bag in there too, but I didn't think Athearn was doing those at the time > they were making the metal kits, so I'm guessing it was added in later > by someone. > Next I have an all metal Roundhouse 40' high side gondola painted > for UP, kit #G-201T. Both sides have some bow to them, one just slight > and the other more pronounced. I'll need to be careful trying to > straighten those. This one comes with trucks that are still sealed in > their bag so I don't know their condition. > Next is an Ulrich GS gondola with sides painted for Minneapolis & > St. Louis. There's a pair of metal sprung T-frame Bettendorf trucks in > here with plastic wheel sets that have the old pizza cutter flanges. > Those wheels need to get replaced but the frames are very nice. I gotta > wonder about the color of the sides though. It's a very saturated green > color. Did M&StL really paint their cars that bright of green? I don't > know if I can find anything to match in Floquil colors, which is what I > normally use. > Then I have two kits from a manufacturer with which I am not > familiar: Prototype Models. These are classic-style wood and metal > craftsman kits. One is a PFE reefer and the other is a Rock Island > reefer. The PFE kit has been started, with the floor, ends, roof and > sides assembled, and it looks like a very good job was done with that so > far. There's a pair of Walthers T-frame Bettendorf trucks in a plastic > box inside this kit. I just noticed the foam was starting to deteriorate > in there and threw it in the trash. The RI reefer has not been started > and hasn't any trucks. Both kits have a set of very nice detail parts > and should build up into some very fine models. > Next is a Taurus products PFE reefer. Not exactly vintage since > these are still available on and off, but I classify nearly anything > that uses wood and metal craftsman construction as vintage, even if it's > the latest kit from George Sellios. The very curious thing here is that > the instructions in this kit cover both a PFE and a RI reefer. And the > series given for both of these on the instructions - PFE Class R-30-13 > and RI 67750-67999 - exactly match the labels on the ends of the 2 > Prototype Models boxes. So did the Prototype Models kits become what is > now the Taurus Products kits? > Lastly, there's a Suncoast Models icing platform. Also not exactly > vintage, I guess, as Walthers has an active page for them but says they > are available sporadically. But the original price on the box end > ($6.95) places it in the 1970s time frame compared to the current > Walthers price of $51.98. This is another classic craftsman-style kit > with lots of sticks of wood in the box. Now if I could only come up with > a decent layout plan so I'd have somewhere to put all this stuff when I > build it... > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." > -Dan Quayle >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18419	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacif

I'll see what I have laying around.  Those trucks look the same as the ones under my Red Ball H16-44. If I find something close I can pop the cover off of one of it's trucks to be sure. --- On Mon, 2/20/12, tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: From: tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C-855... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 20, 2012, 4:40 PM ________________________________ >  From: Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Recently picked up the drive to an Alco Models D-107 Union Pacific C-855... >  > >   > Bob, >  What is the ID and OD of the bushing? I may have one in my parts box.   Thanks, Ray...if I'm reading my calipers right, it's .375" wide by .180 thick.  The shaft is .094.  Hope that helps, I certainly appreciate the effort. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18420	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: A finishedCelluloid Varney car

Attachments : IMG_7717.JPG IMG_7715.JPG Thought some might like to see how my complete set of Varney Celluloid passenger cars will eventually look. I finished one car ,except ladders, to give you an idea. Biggest problem now is to get the sides to fit right as they were cut , short and at an angle. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18421	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car [2 Attachments]

re.: finished Varney celluloid car Way to go Jim !! That is what I think I "model" should look like! All of the feel and romance of the golden age of railroading without descending into the picyeune details of whether the toilet handle is the right shape and size. Thank you for sharing. Jake Bechtel Alabama

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18422	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions

On 2/20/2012 11:57 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > Rick, > > The Prototype Models were originally sold by Prototype Modeler > magazine.There were 2 letterings one for Rock Island and the other > for PFE and yes they are the same cars now offered by Taurus or > whatever they are called today. What years was Prototype Models in operation and when did Taurus acquire the rights to the kits? Taurus has been selling them for at least 20 years now IIRC. -- Rick Jones Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two evils.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18423	From: Jay	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car

That looks great, Jim! Few modern-day modelers outside of us Vintage HO folk realize what an impressive looking scale model consist can be assembled from vintage kits and parts that are 70 years old. Look forward to seeing the rest when you have the time to finish them. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Thought some might like to see how my complete set of > Varney Celluloid passenger cars will eventually look. I finished one car > ,except ladders, to give you an idea. Biggest problem now is to get > the sides to fit right as they were cut , short and at an angle. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18424	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car

MODEL BUILDING - the first step towards pattern making and tool and die makers - the very backbone of industrial productivity! Thankfully my Dad thought it was a useful skill. Jale Alabama On 2/21/12, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > That looks great, Jim! Few modern-day modelers outside of us Vintage HO folk > realize what an impressive looking scale model consist can be assembled from > vintage kits and parts that are 70 years old. Look forward to seeing the > rest when you have the time to finish them. W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Thought some might like to see how my complete set of >> Varney Celluloid passenger cars will eventually look. I finished one car >> ,except ladders, to give you an idea. Biggest problem now is to get >> the sides to fit right as they were cut , short and at an angle. >> >> >> Jim H >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18425	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car [2 Attachments]

Jim, A fine piece of craftsmanship. I wish I had enough spare time for these projects. I used to, but running one's own business can somehow consume 25 hours a day. No, that is not a typo. Of course, sometime the flow will slacken for a while and then I will have plenty of time for my restoration projects. Somewhat on topic to vintage restoation: I went to Ace Hardware with a prewar Scale-Craft coach. Was interested in matching the color it was done in. I am on a first name basis with the people there, they know me quite well. The manager managed to use a machine that can identify a color and suggest a paint mix. He got it dead on. Perfect match! The paint I bought is somewhat thick, especially compared to model paints, but I was able to thin it down to where it was workable. Considering a number of the cars I am painting have no rivets on the sides, just belt rails (Walthers early coaches and Scale-Craft's OO stamped metal cars are this way), it is not an issue for me. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 2/21/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] A finishedCelluloid Varney car [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2012, 3:00 PM   Thought some might like to see how my complete set of Varney Celluloid passenger cars will eventually look. I finished one car ,except ladders, to give you an idea. Biggest problem now is to get the sides to fit right as they were cut , short and at an angle. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18426	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Varney R-1 electric

I waited till the bidding was over so I didn't ruin some ones chance. There was a Varney R-1 electric up for sale on eBay. Item 250998000789 Varney R-1 shell and frame B. It went for $ 225 + . I'm a little skeptical that it is an original based on the B piece. You used a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation/ motor that you modified to fit in the body. You then created floating leading and trailing trucks from the pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. ( Check the sheet on HOseeker and you will see you how you assembled it ) This B piece looks like a frame work to take the 4 sets of drivers. Correct if I'm wrong but I have never seen this piece with this body and it's not in the plans. I would love to see that body. Seller claims it's new. My concern is it a new original body from 38-39 or is it a new reproduction which has happened before on eBay. While I won't go out on a limb to say real or repro I would hate to see the market "flooded" with fakes. While my mind is open to the possibility it's original and my motto is "Never Say Never" but because of very limited numbers made " Buyer Beware ". To the buyer I hope you got the real thing because in my opinion it's the hardest piece (body ) to find. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18427	From: Jay	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Hi Jim H., I was watching it too, as my top bid was eclipsed and not even made well before it reached the triple digits! I have seen one or two of these before, and always assumed that they are modern castings from the original molds which were recovered from the Varney corporate estate by the recently late Lew English of Bowser (referenced in the Varney Guide). So if this was one of those, I would not tend to characterize it as a reproduction, but more likely a later-day casting from the original mold. In the coin hobby, the US Mint once made restrikes of earlier rare US coins from the original dies "to satisfy collector demand." While the restrikes are valuable in their own right, they are still worth less than the original and I would make that comparison here as well. I have never seen that frame before in connection with the R-1 casting either. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > I waited till the bidding was over so I didn't ruin some ones > chance. There was a Varney R-1 electric up for sale on eBay. Item > 250998000789 Varney R-1 shell and frame B. It went for $ 225 + . I'm a > little skeptical that it is an original based on the B piece. You used a > Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation/ motor that you modified to fit in the body. > You then created floating leading and trailing trucks from the pre war 4 > wheel passenger trucks. ( Check the sheet on HOseeker and you will see > you how you assembled it ) This B piece looks like a frame work to take > the 4 sets of drivers. Correct if I'm wrong but I have never seen this > piece with this body and it's not in the plans. I would love to see that > body. Seller claims it's new. My concern is it a new original body from > 38-39 or is it a new reproduction which has happened before on eBay. > While I won't go out on a limb to say real or repro I would hate to see > the market "flooded" with fakes. While my mind is open to the > possibility it's original and my motto is "Never Say Never" but because > of very limited numbers made " Buyer Beware ". To the buyer I hope you > got the real thing because in my opinion it's the hardest piece (body ) > to find. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18428	From: Jay	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Jim, I checked and did not keep notes on the previous one or two, I believe, that I've seen sold on Ebay over the last decade, but seem to recall they sold in the same neighborhood. If so, and if they're are all from the very few later castings made from the original mold, that would set the price level for them but that would also mean that a documented original, with box and papers would sell at a considered higher level. Anyway, whomever won the R-1 tonight, which I believe was cast from the original molds, should be pleased with it and enjoy it in their collection - next step is to find the right parts and see it run! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim H., > > I was watching it too, as my top bid was eclipsed and not even made well before it reached the triple digits! I have seen one or two of these before, and always assumed that they are modern castings from the original molds which were recovered from the Varney corporate estate by the recently late Lew English of Bowser (referenced in the Varney Guide). > > So if this was one of those, I would not tend to characterize it as a reproduction, but more likely a later-day casting from the original mold. In the coin hobby, the US Mint once made restrikes of earlier rare US coins from the original dies "to satisfy collector demand." While the restrikes are valuable in their own right, they are still worth less than the original and I would make that comparison here as well. > > I have never seen that frame before in connection with the R-1 casting either. > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I waited till the bidding was over so I didn't ruin some ones > > chance. There was a Varney R-1 electric up for sale on eBay. Item > > 250998000789 Varney R-1 shell and frame B. It went for $ 225 + . I'm a > > little skeptical that it is an original based on the B piece. You used a > > Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation/ motor that you modified to fit in the body. > > You then created floating leading and trailing trucks from the pre war 4 > > wheel passenger trucks. ( Check the sheet on HOseeker and you will see > > you how you assembled it ) This B piece looks like a frame work to take > > the 4 sets of drivers. Correct if I'm wrong but I have never seen this > > piece with this body and it's not in the plans. I would love to see that > > body. Seller claims it's new. My concern is it a new original body from > > 38-39 or is it a new reproduction which has happened before on eBay. > > While I won't go out on a limb to say real or repro I would hate to see > > the market "flooded" with fakes. While my mind is open to the > > possibility it's original and my motto is "Never Say Never" but because > > of very limited numbers made " Buyer Beware ". To the buyer I hope you > > got the real thing because in my opinion it's the hardest piece (body ) > > to find. > > > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18429	From: cwrailman	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: A finishedCelluloid Varney car

Thanks Jim for posting the pictures.  I always like to see what others are doing.  Kind of inspirational so to speak.  I enjoy the variations of interests in different lines of modes that we have on this board. Not everyone is doing the same thing. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Thought some might like to see how my complete set of > Varney Celluloid passenger cars will eventually look. I finished one car > ,except ladders, to give you an idea. Biggest problem now is to get > the sides to fit right as they were cut , short and at an angle. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18430	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Varney R-1.

Attachments : IMG_7723_3.JPG IMG_7722_3.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Varney R-1. Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:12:54 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: W Jay W         Thanks for the comments. Had heard about the bodies with Bowser in the top inside of the roof with that B part but that was in the 1990's roughly. Even heard of some with no name in the top but those bodies had very sharp edges and someone called him on it ( not me). If the one sold on eBay was an original pre war body just found I would have liked to see the box The original R-1 body was made pre war. I've sent the only Varney plans I know of 2 pictures . One with assembly and the other the written instructions to use a Varney Consolidation cut to fit. You didn't take the Drive wheels out of the Consolidation and installed them in that B piece at least originally. What happened many years later I can't speak to. This is my opinion. You be your own judge.                                                Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18431	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Thanks for the comments

Jacob B, Steven N, cwrailman, W Jay W, Thanks for all the nice comments. I really wish I would have been able to start with a better set but I'll do the best I can. Hope to put the sides on one car a day except for today and some other hospital appointment days. No hurry. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18432	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Jim, I was watching this item too. I believe it went for $229, and possibly some change (I'm not really sure right now). Would have placed a bit also, just as W. Jay W. would have, had it not reached 3 digits, as I too question whether it was original. Would have placed a bid as bidding on a reproduction, as that's all I expect this is -- unless there were more to substantiate it's authenticity -- such a box you mentioned. As for the frame though, yes it appears to be one to take four sets of drivers -- just as what the plans call for. This is either a Mikado or Consolidation frame, but with both ends (forward are rear) cut off. There is no way to install this too-short frame now, without adding to it, but it is a correct frame. You'll note it has the four square slots to accept the square Main Bearing and square Floating Bearing blocks. Unless I missed it (and maybe I did) the sheet I see on HOSeeker shows this frame but with the Drivers in place, so you can't get a good view of the bare frame. It could be a recasting by Lew English, just as Jay said, but I wouldn't want to pay that kind of money for a reproduction, even if it came out of Varney molds/dies. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18433	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Hi W. Jay W., I can't really agree with the train of thought, that if this is a Lew English/Bowser repro, and the other previous ones were also Lew English/Bowser repros, that this price range is setting a precedent for the R-1 repro bodies and that an original Varney R-1 would necessarily go for more. My take on this is that the buyers are assuming that they're bidding on an original Varney R-1, and may even believe they now have an original Varney R-1 even if it is a repro (which is more likely). I don't think that another one would go for any more -- unless it came with a box and perhaps even had "VARNEY" cast inside the top of it. Then, we may all be bidding for it big time < g >, and that would be the only reason for a higher price. Otherwise, those not realizing that there are repros out there -- which probably includes those bidders -- think they've already been looking at a real Varney product, when they're really not. Ray </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18434	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Jim and all How do you tell a real from a fake? I heard there might be some marks inside the shell itself, and that some were not made from cast aluminum like the originals? I have one that my father had since the late 1950's, it has original instruction sheet with it, so pretty sure it's a real one. Has varney frame and cover plate, but I rigged up a drive with Penn Line drivers when I was a teen ager (in like 1973) to get it running. I'd like to get original drivers and motor to make it complete. Anyone got those that they'd be willing to spare? Thanks Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18435	From: Nelson	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: NYO&W 2-4-2

This is a fantasy kitbash, but I think it's really cool and the price was right.  HO scale old time 2-4-2 Columbia style locomotive made from Ahm Rivarossi parts

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18436	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: NYO&W 2-4-2

Nelson ,  Nice little fantasy kit bash. A lot of work put into it and a beautiful job. A good buy. As you said price was right.                                                    Jim H On 2/22/2012 8:22 PM, Nelson wrote:   This is a fantasy kitbash, but I think it's really cool and the price was right.  HO scale old time 2-4-2 Columbia style locomotive made from Ahm Rivarossi parts

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18437	From: Nelson	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: NYO&W 2-4-2

Thanks, Jim. The seller did do a good job of it, and I'm not too far from the old NYO&W ROW in northern NJ, so I had to have it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Nelson , > > Nice little fantasy kit bash. A lot of work put into it and a > beautiful job. A good buy. As you said price was right. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18438	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Hi Ray F. W., You made a good point (that I had overlooked) that there may be bidders who might assume that they are bidding on an original 1938 casting, but I would hope and think that most biding that amount of money on any collectible item, whether model railroad, coins, art or anything else would have done some research on the rarer items they are seeking. Especially an advanced collector seeking this Varney model. I know and understand that is not always true, however, as you said. Without having a known original with provanance, box, paperwork to compare with, it might always be difficult to determine if we have an original, re-issue or possibly a reproduction. Spanagel's Varney guide says that the original was cast from aluminum in an original "match plate mold." Presumably this was located by Lew English in 1965, the time when he traveled to the Florida Varney plant and home, but we do not know that for sure. The vintage instructions on HO Seeker and the example sold on eBay yesterday match in that there is an integral "web" cast at the bottom, making a one piece hollow aluminum casting - to achieve that I beleive one would also have to use a sacrificial sand cope with the match plate mold. (Anyone with commercial foundry experience, please jump in!) The only other vintage HO model cast that way that I have experience with is the Knapp cast aluminum passenger coach. Not something seen in a cheaper or more expedient aluminum slush casting or centrifigul white metal casting (Tiger Valley diesels) generally used to make a reproduction from a positive original. So right now, my working theory (which could always be proved wrong) is that the one sold last night was at least a re-issue, but not a repro, two different objects in my mind. Bowser was good at "re-branding" major castings coming from their own plant, for example, one can tell the difference between a PSM original FM H16-4-4 diesel body casting and Bowser production simply by looking for the large Bowser name on the inside. Since to my understanding, the R-1 was done outside the plant, do not know for sure if those later castings, (nor those of the Varney Yellowstone that were also produced decades later), were marked in any way. But like Jim H, seem to have heard that the R-1 may have been. Hopefully though discussions like ours, we may uncover additional imformation that will lead to definite conclusions. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Hi W. Jay W., > > I can't really agree with the train of thought, that if this is a Lew > English/Bowser repro, and the other previous ones were also Lew English/Bowser > repros, that this price range is setting a precedent for the R-1 repro bodies > and that an original Varney R-1 would necessarily go for more. My take on > this is that the buyers are assuming that they're bidding on an original > Varney R-1, and may even believe they now have an original Varney R-1 even if it > is a repro (which is more likely). I don't think that another one would go > for any more -- unless it came with a box and perhaps even had "VARNEY" > cast inside the top of it. Then, we may all be bidding for it big time < g >, > and that would be the only reason for a higher price. Otherwise, those not > realizing that there are repros out there -- which probably includes those > bidders -- think they've already been looking at a real Varney product, when > they're really not. > > Ray > > </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18439	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: NYO&W 2-4-2

HiNelson, I agree that it has a plausible look of quite a few of those circa 1870's locomotives of the anthracite roads like the O&W that were kept on the roster for decades and rebuilt over and over. Fun to "give in" to these neatly done models sometimes! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > This is a fantasy kitbash, but I think it's really cool and the price > was right. [:)] > > [Item picture] > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/120861197714?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p\ > 3984.m1439.l2648> HO scale old time 2-4-2 Columbia style locomotive made > from Ahm Rivarossi parts > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/120861197714?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p\ > 3984.m1439.l2649> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18440	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Regarding the Bowser H-16-44: Were all Bowser reissues marked Bowser inside, on the roof? I bought a number of years ago, an H-10-44 body casting in the Bowser box. It was just the casting, meant to fit over an Athearn F-7 frame. Mine, despite being in a Bowser box, was marked "Penna. Scale Models" inside. Wonder if it was a transition piece for Bowser? The hobby shop that was here in Waukegan at the time (A few blocks from my home, even - they're still around, but moved to another town), had a lot of new-old stock from the 1970s onwards. Even bought "new" Silver Streak kits, among other long-gone brands. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney R-1 electric To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:28 PM   Hi Ray F. W., You made a good point (that I had overlooked) that there may be bidders who might assume that they are bidding on an original 1938 casting, but I would hope and think that most biding that amount of money on any collectible item, whether model railroad, coins, art or anything else would have done some research on the rarer items they are seeking. Especially an advanced collector seeking this Varney model. I know and understand that is not always true, however, as you said. Without having a known original with provanance, box, paperwork to compare with, it might always be difficult to determine if we have an original, re-issue or possibly a reproduction. Spanagel's Varney guide says that the original was cast from aluminum in an original "match plate mold." Presumably this was located by Lew English in 1965, the time when he traveled to the Florida Varney plant and home, but we do not know that for sure. The vintage instructions on HO Seeker and the example sold on eBay yesterday match in that there is an integral "web" cast at the bottom, making a one piece hollow aluminum casting - to achieve that I beleive one would also have to use a sacrificial sand cope with the match plate mold. (Anyone with commercial foundry experience, please jump in!) The only other vintage HO model cast that way that I have experience with is the Knapp cast aluminum passenger coach. Not something seen in a cheaper or more expedient aluminum slush casting or centrifigul white metal casting (Tiger Valley diesels) generally used to make a reproduction from a positive original. So right now, my working theory (which could always be proved wrong) is that the one sold last night was at least a re-issue, but not a repro, two different objects in my mind. Bowser was good at "re-branding" major castings coming from their own plant, for example, one can tell the difference between a PSM original FM H16-4-4 diesel body casting and Bowser production simply by looking for the large Bowser name on the inside. Since to my understanding, the R-1 was done outside the plant, do not know for sure if those later castings, (nor those of the Varney Yellowstone that were also produced decades later), were marked in any way. But like Jim H, seem to have heard that the R-1 may have been. Hopefully though discussions like ours, we may uncover additional imformation that will lead to definite conclusions. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Hi W. Jay W., > > I can't really agree with the train of thought, that if this is a Lew > English/Bowser repro, and the other previous ones were also Lew English/Bowser > repros, that this price range is setting a precedent for the R-1 repro bodies > and that an original Varney R-1 would necessarily go for more. My take on > this is that the buyers are assuming that they're bidding on an original > Varney R-1, and may even believe they now have an original Varney R-1 even if it > is a repro (which is more likely). I don't think that another one would go > for any more -- unless it came with a box and perhaps even had "VARNEY" > cast inside the top of it. Then, we may all be bidding for it big time < g >, > and that would be the only reason for a higher price. Otherwise, those not > realizing that there are repros out there -- which probably includes those > bidders -- think they've already been looking at a real Varney product, when > they're really not. > > Ray > > </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18441	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Steve,   I scratch my head on this one, but John English offered a H-10-44 back in the 1950's, R-T-R. I don't remember any kits thereof until, and correct me if I'm wriong, Cary Locomotive offered a lead cast body that needed such a power mechanism. English sold PRR trainsets, as such, with tuscan red FA's that may have had the same power mechanisms as the H-10-44's. At age 65 (me), I'm digging through some dusty memories of when I was a nine year old, just getting into HO.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney R-1 electric To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 7:50 PM   Regarding the Bowser H-16-44: Were all Bowser reissues marked Bowser inside, on the roof? I bought a number of years ago, an H-10-44 body casting in the Bowser box. It was just the casting, meant to fit over an Athearn F-7 frame. Mine, despite being in a Bowser box, was marked "Penna. Scale Models" inside. Wonder if it was a transition piece for Bowser? The hobby shop that was here in Waukegan at the time (A few blocks from my home, even - they're still around, but moved to another town), had a lot of new-old stock from the 1970s onwards. Even bought "new" Silver Streak kits, among other long-gone brands. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney R-1 electric To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:28 PM   Hi Ray F. W., You made a good point (that I had overlooked) that there may be bidders who might assume that they are bidding on an original 1938 casting, but I would hope and think that most biding that amount of money on any collectible item, whether model railroad, coins, art or anything else would have done some research on the rarer items they are seeking. Especially an advanced collector seeking this Varney model. I know and understand that is not always true, however, as you said. Without having a known original with provanance, box, paperwork to compare with, it might always be difficult to determine if we have an original, re-issue or possibly a reproduction. Spanagel's Varney guide says that the original was cast from aluminum in an original "match plate mold." Presumably this was located by Lew English in 1965, the time when he traveled to the Florida Varney plant and home, but we do not know that for sure. The vintage instructions on HO Seeker and the example sold on eBay yesterday match in that there is an integral "web" cast at the bottom, making a one piece hollow aluminum casting - to achieve that I beleive one would also have to use a sacrificial sand cope with the match plate mold. (Anyone with commercial foundry experience, please jump in!) The only other vintage HO model cast that way that I have experience with is the Knapp cast aluminum passenger coach. Not something seen in a cheaper or more expedient aluminum slush casting or centrifigul white metal casting (Tiger Valley diesels) generally used to make a reproduction from a positive original. So right now, my working theory (which could always be proved wrong) is that the one sold last night was at least a re-issue, but not a repro, two different objects in my mind. Bowser was good at "re-branding" major castings coming from their own plant, for example, one can tell the difference between a PSM original FM H16-4-4 diesel body casting and Bowser production simply by looking for the large Bowser name on the inside. Since to my understanding, the R-1 was done outside the plant, do not know for sure if those later castings, (nor those of the Varney Yellowstone that were also produced decades later), were marked in any way. But like Jim H, seem to have heard that the R-1 may have been. Hopefully though discussions like ours, we may uncover additional imformation that will lead to definite conclusions. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Hi W. Jay W., > > I can't really agree with the train of thought, that if this is a Lew > English/Bowser repro, and the other previous ones were also Lew English/Bowser > repros, that this price range is setting a precedent for the R-1 repro bodies > and that an original Varney R-1 would necessarily go for more. My take on > this is that the buyers are assuming that they're bidding on an original > Varney R-1, and may even believe they now have an original Varney R-1 even if it > is a repro (which is more likely). I don't think that another one would go > for any more -- unless it came with a box and perhaps even had "VARNEY" > cast inside the top of it. Then, we may all be bidding for it big time < g >, > and that would be the only reason for a higher price. Otherwise, those not > realizing that there are repros out there -- which probably includes those > bidders -- think they've already been looking at a real Varney product, when > they're really not. > > Ray > > </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18442	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Steve N., Yes, I believe you have a "transitional kit"; Bowser would likely use up stock that was purchsed from the original maker - in this instance, Pennsylvania Scale Models (PSM), then change the name when they cast the next run in their own plant. W.Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Regarding the Bowser H-16-44: Were all Bowser reissues marked Bowser inside, on the roof? I bought a number of years ago, an H-10-44 body casting in the Bowser box. It was just the casting, meant to fit over an Athearn F-7 frame. Mine, despite being in a Bowser box, was marked "Penna. Scale Models" inside. > > Wonder if it was a transition piece for Bowser? The hobby shop that was here in Waukegan at the time (A few blocks from my home, even - they're still around, but moved to another town), had a lot of new-old stock from the 1970s onwards. Even bought "new" Silver Streak kits, among other long-gone brands. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney R-1 electric > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray F. W., > > > > You made a good point (that I had overlooked) that there may be bidders who might assume that they are bidding on an original 1938 casting, but I would hope and think that most biding that amount of money on any collectible item, whether model railroad, coins, art or anything else would have done some research on the rarer items they are seeking. Especially an advanced collector seeking this Varney model. > > > > I know and understand that is not always true, however, as you said. > > > > Without having a known original with provanance, box, paperwork to compare with, it might always be difficult to determine if we have an original, re-issue or possibly a reproduction. Spanagel's Varney guide says that the original was cast from aluminum in an original "match plate mold." Presumably this was located by Lew English in 1965, the time when he traveled to the Florida Varney plant and home, but we do not know that for sure. > > > > The vintage instructions on HO Seeker and the example sold on eBay yesterday match in that there is an integral "web" cast at the bottom, making a one piece hollow aluminum casting - to achieve that I beleive one would also have to use a sacrificial sand cope with the match plate mold. (Anyone with commercial foundry experience, please jump in!) > > > > The only other vintage HO model cast that way that I have experience with is the Knapp cast aluminum passenger coach. Not something seen in a cheaper or more expedient aluminum slush casting or centrifigul white metal casting (Tiger Valley diesels) generally used to make a reproduction from a positive original. So right now, my working theory (which could always be proved wrong) is that the one sold last night was at least a re-issue, but not a repro, two different objects in my mind. > > > > Bowser was good at "re-branding" major castings coming from their own plant, for example, one can tell the difference between a PSM original FM H16-4-4 diesel body casting and Bowser production simply by looking for the large Bowser name on the inside. Since to my understanding, the R-1 was done outside the plant, do not know for sure if those later castings, (nor those of the Varney Yellowstone that were also produced decades later), were marked in any way. But like Jim H, seem to have heard that the R-1 may have been. > > > > Hopefully though discussions like ours, we may uncover additional imformation that will lead to definite conclusions. > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi W. Jay W., > > > > > > I can't really agree with the train of thought, that if this is a Lew > > > English/Bowser repro, and the other previous ones were also Lew English/Bowser > > > repros, that this price range is setting a precedent for the R-1 repro bodies > > > and that an original Varney R-1 would necessarily go for more. My take on > > > this is that the buyers are assuming that they're bidding on an original > > > Varney R-1, and may even believe they now have an original Varney R-1 even if it > > > is a repro (which is more likely). I don't think that another one would go > > > for any more -- unless it came with a box and perhaps even had "VARNEY" > > > cast inside the top of it. Then, we may all be bidding for it big time < g >, > > > and that would be the only reason for a higher price. Otherwise, those not > > > realizing that there are repros out there -- which probably includes those > > > bidders -- think they've already been looking at a real Varney product, when > > > they're really not. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > </HTML> > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18443	From: John Barlow	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Clarification of Original Subject Title (Was: Varney R-1 electri

Coming in a tad late on this, was the original Subject referring to the PRR R1 (the "Pittsburgh GG1"?)  If so, did Varney offer such a locomotive in HO at one time? I believe Alco Models did release one twenty-plus years ago but in unpainted brass.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)   --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney R-1 electric To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:27 PM   Steve N., Yes, I believe you have a "transitional kit"; Bowser would likely use up stock that was purchsed from the original maker - in this instance, Pennsylvania Scale Models (PSM), then change the name when they cast the next run in their own plant. W.Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Regarding the Bowser H-16-44: Were all Bowser reissues marked Bowser inside, on the roof? I bought a number of years ago, an H-10-44 body casting in the Bowser box. It was just the casting, meant to fit over an Athearn F-7 frame. Mine, despite being in a Bowser box, was marked "Penna. Scale Models" inside. > > Wonder if it was a transition piece for Bowser? The hobby shop that was here in Waukegan at the time (A few blocks from my home, even - they're still around, but moved to another town), had a lot of new-old stock from the 1970s onwards. Even bought "new" Silver Streak kits, among other long-gone brands. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney R-1 electric > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray F. W., > > > > You made a good point (that I had overlooked) that there may be bidders who might assume that they are bidding on an original 1938 casting, but I would hope and think that most biding that amount of money on any collectible item, whether model railroad, coins, art or anything else would have done some research on the rarer items they are seeking. Especially an advanced collector seeking this Varney model. > > > > I know and understand that is not always true, however, as you said. > > > > Without having a known original with provanance, box, paperwork to compare with, it might always be difficult to determine if we have an original, re-issue or possibly a reproduction. Spanagel's Varney guide says that the original was cast from aluminum in an original "match plate mold." Presumably this was located by Lew English in 1965, the time when he traveled to the Florida Varney plant and home, but we do not know that for sure. > > > > The vintage instructions on HO Seeker and the example sold on eBay yesterday match in that there is an integral "web" cast at the bottom, making a one piece hollow aluminum casting - to achieve that I beleive one would also have to use a sacrificial sand cope with the match plate mold. (Anyone with commercial foundry experience, please jump in!) > > > > The only other vintage HO model cast that way that I have experience with is the Knapp cast aluminum passenger coach. Not something seen in a cheaper or more expedient aluminum slush casting or centrifigul white metal casting (Tiger Valley diesels) generally used to make a reproduction from a positive original. So right now, my working theory (which could always be proved wrong) is that the one sold last night was at least a re-issue, but not a repro, two different objects in my mind. > > > > Bowser was good at "re-branding" major castings coming from their own plant, for example, one can tell the difference between a PSM original FM H16-4-4 diesel body casting and Bowser production simply by looking for the large Bowser name on the inside. Since to my understanding, the R-1 was done outside the plant, do not know for sure if those later castings, (nor those of the Varney Yellowstone that were also produced decades later), were marked in any way. But like Jim H, seem to have heard that the R-1 may have been. > > > > Hopefully though discussions like ours, we may uncover additional imformation that will lead to definite conclusions. > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi W. Jay W., > > > > > > I can't really agree with the train of thought, that if this is a Lew > > > English/Bowser repro, and the other previous ones were also Lew English/Bowser > > > repros, that this price range is setting a precedent for the R-1 repro bodies > > > and that an original Varney R-1 would necessarily go for more. My take on > > > this is that the buyers are assuming that they're bidding on an original > > > Varney R-1, and may even believe they now have an original Varney R-1 even if it > > > is a repro (which is more likely). I don't think that another one would go > > > for any more -- unless it came with a box and perhaps even had "VARNEY" > > > cast inside the top of it. Then, we may all be bidding for it big time < g >, > > > and that would be the only reason for a higher price. Otherwise, those not > > > realizing that there are repros out there -- which probably includes those > > > bidders -- think they've already been looking at a real Varney product, when > > > they're really not. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > </HTML> > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18444	From: Jay	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Varney R-1 electric

Hi Jim W., I and I'm sure others would love to see photos of yours, inside and out, especially since your father Vincent had it since the late 1950's. It could be very useful in determing differences, if any, in the future. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote: > > Jim and all > > How do you tell a real from a fake? I heard there might be some marks > inside the shell itself, and that some were not made from cast aluminum > like the originals? > > I have one that my father had since the late 1950's, it has original > instruction sheet with it, so pretty sure it's a real one. Has varney > frame and cover plate, but I rigged up a drive with Penn Line drivers > when I was a teen ager (in like 1973) to get it running. > > I'd like to get original drivers and motor to make it complete. > > Anyone got those that they'd be willing to spare? > > Thanks > > Jim >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18445	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > I believe that was once the prototype freight car color for M&SL as they also had geen boxcars. In the mid-1950's one large HO manufacturer hit upon the idea of a green freight car to spark sales and soon three or four were offering all green cars. What I'm pretty sure M&STL didn't have was GS gondolas. I've never mapped out what prototype the Ulrich model most closely represents, but it's basically an SP car that probably also was seen on the UP. But that's the prototype modeler in me talking, this is the Vintage HO group. Here's my M&STL green gondola: http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/dadstrain06.jpg Picked it up on ebay just a few weeks ago, in the exact condition you see except that it had old style Kadee straight pin couplers, which I replaced with some Kadee #4 - which are now out of production and fully qualified vintage items in and of themselves. Doesn't have the T-section trucks, but my Ulrich hopper came with them - as an unbuilt kit. I don't remember what kind of trucks my dad's gondola had, they are long gone. Here's my Ulrich hopper - finished the other night. A bit of a pain to fit the slope sheets and the frame keys into the ends but it's not quite long enough to hit the pins :-) I can't imagine building this thing without super glue - thick Cyanopoxy in this case. It's no wonder my memories of dad's Ulrich hoppers are memories of pieces, not complete cars. http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/dadstrain07.jpg It also has Kadee #4 couplers, which are a pretty straight fit to Ulrich's coupler box, with a little trimming of the center pin to allow good motion. I'm using vintage trucks on all of these, including the pre-RP25 NMRA spec flanges, aka pizzacutters. I'll be running this stuff on vintage track as well, so it shouldn't be a problem. Still looking for an Ulrich Erie offset-side 2-bay hopper. That one is hard to come by for some reason. At any given time there are ~25 Ulrich hoppers on ebay, but haven't seen any Erie 2-bays. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18446	From: Jay	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

Hi Andy, I've enjoyed reading about your progress in building your roster and the stories behind it. I also enjoy modeling prototype roads as well, but have a lot less knowledge of them outside of my northeast favorites. As to the question of whether the M&StL had GS gons, someone with access to an Official Equipment Register might be able to tell for sure, but in my brief search on line, I found that intriguing photo of a steel wedge plow grafted onto what looks to be part of a M&StL GS gon in the sixth photo down on this page: http://www.cashgroth.com/mow.html BTW, great photos of your models. Keep looking for those Ulrich Erie hoppers, they were in production for quite a while and do show up - I was picky when looking for one and saw several listed before I bought mine, though that was a while back. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > I believe that was once the prototype freight car color for M&SL as they also had geen boxcars. In the mid-1950's one large HO manufacturer hit upon the idea of a green freight car to spark sales and soon three or four were offering all green cars. > > What I'm pretty sure M&STL didn't have was GS gondolas. I've never mapped out what prototype the Ulrich model most closely represents, but it's basically an SP car that probably also was seen on the UP. > > But that's the prototype modeler in me talking, this is the Vintage HO group. > > Here's my M&STL green gondola: > http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/dadstrain06.jpg > > Picked it up on ebay just a few weeks ago, in the exact condition you see except that it had old style Kadee straight pin couplers, which I replaced with some Kadee #4 - which are now out of production and fully qualified vintage items in and of themselves. > > Doesn't have the T-section trucks, but my Ulrich hopper came with them - as an unbuilt kit. I don't remember what kind of trucks my dad's gondola had, they are long gone. > > Here's my Ulrich hopper - finished the other night. A bit of a pain to fit the slope sheets and the frame keys into the ends but it's not quite long enough to hit the pins :-) I can't imagine building this thing without super glue - thick Cyanopoxy in this case. It's no wonder my memories of dad's Ulrich hoppers are memories of pieces, not complete cars. > > http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/dadstrain07.jpg > > It also has Kadee #4 couplers, which are a pretty straight fit to Ulrich's coupler box, with a little trimming of the center pin to allow good motion. > > I'm using vintage trucks on all of these, including the pre-RP25 NMRA spec flanges, aka pizzacutters. I'll be running this stuff on vintage track as well, so it shouldn't be a problem. > > Still looking for an Ulrich Erie offset-side 2-bay hopper. That one is hard to come by for some reason. At any given time there are ~25 Ulrich hoppers on ebay, but haven't seen any Erie 2-bays. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18447	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

I don't know how accurate the color on my monitor is or the accuracy of the camera that photo'ed the gon, but I picked up one of these a few years ago. Mine has the same road number but is a darker shade of green. That is one car that has no need for additional weight. Probably well over NMRA spec's. A half dozen of these on a grade and nothing will move.  Regards, Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18448	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, madchemep2@... wrote: > I don't know how accurate the color on my monitor is or the accuracy of the > camera that photo'ed the gon, but I picked up one of these a few years > ago. Mine has the same road number but is a darker shade of green. My photo may appear a bit light, since I used a flash. I was just trying to get some decent snapshots together and the flash definitely lightens the colors, especially blues and greens. I have 5000K lighting in my shop room but to get a good photo with good DOF and no flash I'd have to get out the tripod and I've been too lazy to do that for a while :-) As to weight, I'd hazard a guess that all of my diecast cars from Ulrich and MDC are considerably heavier than NMRA standard. The Athearn metal cars are a lot lighter being thin tinplate and basswood, often with no additional weight. In fact I almost think an Athearn metal line box car weighs the same or less than an Athearn bluebox plastic 40' box car including the steel weight. Easy enough to test that theory, I have a fairly accurate digital postal scale. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18449	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisitions - Ulrich M&StL green GS gon

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > Hi Andy, I've enjoyed reading about your progress in building your roster and the stories behind it. I didn't post the full story of the Katy yellow box car on my web site, aka "The Other Yellow Box Car" but I think I posted it on here a few weeks ago. I need to cut & paste and put it on the web site, because the story isn't complete without that part of it! I am totally drawing a blank on the ore cars. In fishing the junkbox twice, I found not one single piece of an ore car. There are a few old photos that have dad's layout visible and a few things identifiable but I don't remember seeing the ore cars. All I know is they were both brown (as most ore cars are) and I'm pretty sure one of each body style, the rectangular and the sloped side panel. Unless my mom or my brother can remember a road name, I may just buy whatever I can find that sounds plausible... Milwaukee sounds good for one of them. >brief search on line, I found that intriguing photo of a steel wedge >plow grafted onto what looks to be part of a M&StL GS gon in the >sixth photo down on this page: > http://www.cashgroth.com/mow.html It does have the side profile but it looks to be wood sided, and maybe not tall enough to have drop hatches. There were composite GS gondolas on the SP with metal bracing and wood sides. I guess I need to carefully go ask on the STMFC who outside of SP and UP had GS type gondolas. I'm thinking maybe WP had some, and maybe Rio Grande. But all of them western roads. The western roads tended to heavily use drop bottom gondolas for hauling all kinds of bulk stuff, including gravel, coal, sugar beets, etc. In some ways they were used like hopper cars. The cars that survived into the 90s were equipped with wood extensions and used in sugar beet service for some years, although I believe the market changed and/or shipping practice changed so that after about 1995 or so, the beet trains were no more. Wonder what happened to all the gondolas? Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18450	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars

On 2/23/2012 8:22 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Going a lot quicker then I thought it would. I wish I had a > couple of better bodies.but doesn't look to bad. Might finish putting > the sides on this weekend. Then I have to find some ladder material > with skinny sides. Everything I want to buy is to heavy. I did run int > a problem with some small pieces of the ends peeling off. I can match > all the colors and touch up but I need a small bottle of Testors flat > brown ( Not dark brown )for the narrow brown lines on the sides and I > will touch up places that need it. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18451	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars

Attachments : IMG_7736.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 20:22:48 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Going a lot quicker then I thought it would. I wish I had a couple of better bodies.but doesn't look to bad. Might finish putting the sides on this weekend. Then I have to find some ladder material with skinny sides. Everything I want to buy is to heavy. I did run int a problem with some small pieces of the ends peeling off. I can match all the colors and touch up but I need a small bottle of Testors flat brown ( Not dark brown )for the narrow brown lines on the sides and I will touch up places that need it. Jim H Forgot to send the pictures last email .

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18452	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/24/2012
Subject: Re: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars [1 Attachment]

This restoration job and the consist gets more impressive by the day. Please keep the updates coming. Jake Bechtel On 2/23/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Good Progress on Varney Passenger cars > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 20:22:48 -0500 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: > > > > Going a lot quicker then I thought it would. I wish I had a > couple of better bodies.but doesn't look to bad. Might finish putting > the sides on this weekend. Then I have to find some ladder material with > skinny sides. Everything I want to buy is to heavy. I did run int a > problem with some small pieces of the ends peeling off. I can match all > the colors and touch up but I need a small bottle of Testors flat brown > ( Not dark brown )for the narrow brown lines on the sides and I will > touch up places that need it. > > > Jim H > Forgot to send the pictures last email > . > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18453	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

One more car arrived in the mail today - the Athearn metal Mobilgas tank car. I paid kind of a premium for it but it's assembled and in really outstanding condition - very clean, no dents, no rust, no corrosion or warping of the cast frame. It had Mantua couplers and the coupler cover was riveted on (it's part of the sill cover) but I was able to pop it loose and bend it back enough to slip a pair of #4 Kadee couplers in there. A few chips in the black paint on the frame including a few I caused changing the couplers, which I will touch up. This brings the car count to 8 out of the 16 total I need (including caboose). The MDC Santa Fe stock car and Athearn Roller Freight box car should be here tomorrow - that makes #9 and 10. Also I won an auction on two of the Athearn Southern flat cars, that makes 11 - I'll pick the best one. Bidding on an MDC C&O Gondola #12, two ore cars 13 and 14, and a possibly salvageable MDC PRR caboose which would make 15. Leaving only the elusive Ulrich Erie offset hopper. Unless of course my memory conjures up more cars - I had forgotten about the ore cars until I stumbled across some on ebay. No idea what roadnames they were so I will just wing it. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18454	From: gary	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

Hey Guys, I bought a box of old HO track, power packs and assorted junk from an antique mall. This box had a 1957 Hobbyline plastic kit for a Berkshire Locomotive. It is in the original box. It appears that the kit was started and never finished. It appears to be missing a few small parts, i.e. leading truck frame and wheels and may be missing other stuff. I just gave it a quick glance. I found a diagram and instructions on HO Seeker. Is this a common item? Can parts be found? I would like to build it for a static display for my roundhouse. Any help, info, comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Gary C. Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18455	From: jay matz	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

Gary  Look on Ebay new kits show up all the time.  Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18456	From: gary pardue	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

Jay, Thanks! Gary --- On Sun, 2/26/12, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: From: jay matz <dlw455@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 7:07 AM   Gary  Look on Ebay new kits show up all the time.  Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18457	From: Jay	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

Hi Gary P., In comnnection with the populat HObbyline Berkshire, a Canadian firm, Simms Laboratories sold a power mechanism for the unit which might interest you, see this page at HO Seeker - http://hoseeker.org/simmslab/simmslab284berkshire.jpg W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys, > I bought a box of old HO track, power packs and assorted junk from an antique mall. This box had a 1957 Hobbyline plastic kit for a Berkshire Locomotive. It is in the original box. It appears that the kit was started and never finished. It appears to be missing a few small parts, i.e. leading truck frame and wheels and may be missing other stuff. I just gave it a quick glance. I found a diagram and instructions on HO Seeker. Is this a common item? Can parts be found? I would like to build it for a static display for my roundhouse. Any help, info, comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Gary C. Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18458	From: Jay	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

Hi Gary P., In my haste, I negelected to mention that the Simms Hobbyline powereing instructions were furnished to HOSeeker by our fellow member Jim H.; In addition, a photograph of one of these Simms powered chassis can be found in Jim H's. Vintage HO Hobbyline album: http://tinyurl.com/75orhqo or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1738268737/pic/1480311508/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Gary P., In comnnection with the populat HObbyline Berkshire, a Canadian firm, Simms Laboratories sold a power mechanism for the unit which might interest you, see this page at HO Seeker - > http://hoseeker.org/simmslab/simmslab284berkshire.jpg > W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@> wrote: > > > > Hey Guys, > > I bought a box of old HO track, power packs and assorted junk from an antique mall. This box had a 1957 Hobbyline plastic kit for a Berkshire Locomotive. It is in the original box. It appears that the kit was started and never finished. It appears to be missing a few small parts, i.e. leading truck frame and wheels and may be missing other stuff. I just gave it a quick glance. I found a diagram and instructions on HO Seeker. Is this a common item? Can parts be found? I would like to build it for a static display for my roundhouse. Any help, info, comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Gary C. Pardue > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18459	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

They can also be [powered with Mantua mechanisms.  If anyone sees a Sims mechanism for sale I am always looking for one or more.  Thanks. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------ On 2/26/2012 9:56 AM, Jay wrote:   Hi Gary P., In comnnection with the populat HObbyline Berkshire, a Canadian firm, Simms Laboratories sold a power mechanism for the unit which might interest you, see this page at HO Seeker - http://hoseeker.org/simmslab/simmslab284berkshire.jpg W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys, > I bought a box of old HO track, power packs and assorted junk from an antique mall. This box had a 1957 Hobbyline plastic kit for a Berkshire Locomotive. It is in the original box. It appears that the kit was started and never finished. It appears to be missing a few small parts, i.e. leading truck frame and wheels and may be missing other stuff. I just gave it a quick glance. I found a diagram and instructions on HO Seeker. Is this a common item? Can parts be found? I would like to build it for a static display for my roundhouse. Any help, info, comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Gary C. Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18460	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

Hi Gary, All,      Go back into HOseeker and click on Gallery. Scroll down to HO Trains ( C-K .) Click on HObbyline.  In the Hobbyline Album you will find 3 pictures of the HObbyline Plastic Berkshire and the Simms Power unit.  First picture shows the Berk kit open with the Simms power unit, Second picture is just the Berk in open box, THIRD PICTURE IS A CLOSE UP OF THE SIMMS POWER UNIT SITTING ON THE INSTRUCTION SHEET. While I knew about this drive the one I have is the first and only one I've seen any where. I was lucky that it had O/B and instruction sheet. Made in Canada it seems hard to find.     FYI    At the top of things in the Gallery you will see two big brass engines. The one is the Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone and the other the Winton  2-6-6-6 Allegheny. I'm very proud of these two engines I made.                                                                       Jim H On 2/26/2012 10:09 AM, Jay wrote:   Hi Gary P., In my haste, I negelected to mention that the Simms Hobbyline powereing instructions were furnished to HOSeeker by our fellow member Jim H.; In addition, a photograph of one of these Simms powered chassis can be found in Jim H's. Vintage HO Hobbyline album: http://tinyurl.com/75orhqo or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1738268737/pic/1480311508/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Gary P., In comnnection with the populat HObbyline Berkshire, a Canadian firm, Simms Laboratories sold a power mechanism for the unit which might interest you, see this page at HO Seeker - > http://hoseeker.org/simmslab/simmslab284berkshire.jpg > W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@> wrote: > > > > Hey Guys, > > I bought a box of old HO track, power packs and assorted junk from an antique mall. This box had a 1957 Hobbyline plastic kit for a Berkshire Locomotive. It is in the original box. It appears that the kit was started and never finished. It appears to be missing a few small parts, i.e. leading truck frame and wheels and may be missing other stuff. I just gave it a quick glance. I found a diagram and instructions on HO Seeker. Is this a common item? Can parts be found? I would like to build it for a static display for my roundhouse. Any help, info, comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Gary C. Pardue > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18461	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Simms Power unit

Attachments : IMG_7757.JPG IMG_7755.JPG IMG_7754.JPG IMG_7753.JPG I sent these 4 pictures of different views of the Simms power unit which will give you a better idea of what it consist of. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18462	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Bowser Mountain

Hello group, I have a Bowser M-1A Mountain that I will be selling for a friend on Ebay. In checking the HOseeker site I haven't figured out if they have any info about the model, a to when it was manufactured. I would like to list as much info about it as I could. So, does anyone have any background data on it that would help? Thanks, Tom VH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18463	From: jbark76	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

I have a few of them in pieces and would likely have the parts you need. Jeff Barker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18464	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1957 Hobbyline Berkshire Kit

My dad also had one of these. He built it but didn't paint it - left it unpainted black plastic. The only thing he painted were the driver tires. I still have some parts of it... for a long time it was difficult to find a complete kit. Lots of partials, but it wasn't until ebay that I was able to score a couple of complete kits. Another rainy day project to build and paint as a static display. I'm amazed at the quality of this model - at the time it was kind of unusual to make a steam loco out of plastic but the detail and accuracy compared to Mantua, Varney etc. was quite impressive. Later my dad got a Rosebud Kitmaster NYC J3a Hudson. This was a British company that made mostly European models, the Hudson was one of maybe two U.S. prototypes they did. It stands up pretty well to the much later Monogram plastic J3. Monogram is better in some ways but the side rods were all one piece; the Kitmaster had individual rod components and like the Hobbyline Berkshire, it was possible to assemble them very carefully to where they'd roll. The Monogram Hudson is a great way to make a roundhouse look very impressive at a very low cost :-) Or paint one gold and stick it in a display case... Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18465	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: Simms Power unit

The Simms Power Unit itself worked very well, and with some work, the Berkshire could be made into a very creditable and quite operable scale model. As I recall, problems were  that the plastic HObbyline valve and drive rods did not stand up very well, and the plastic truck wheels preferred skidding to actually turning. Both could be corrected with modeling skills and some investment in better parts.     I have several of these at one time, but not any more. However, one of the Berkshire tenders still in inventory will soon be playing a fine static role in the almost-completed Tender Shop on my layout. Denny     Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18466	From: Mal	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain

There was an article in MR about assembling the Bowser Mountain - somewhere around 1950. IT was one of the famous IKB articles about buildign from kits. Malcolm LAughlin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tomvanhoy" <tomvanhoy@...> wrote: > > Hello group, > I have a Bowser M-1A Mountain that I will be selling for a friend on Ebay. In checking the HOseeker site I haven't figured out if they have any info about the model, a to when it was manufactured. I would like to list as much info about it as I could. So, does anyone have any background data on it that would help? > Thanks, > Tom VH >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18467	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: bowser mountain

Thanks, with a little help I found on the Bowser web site that they started making it in 1986. Not as old as I thought, but still a nice heavy engine that should be a Beast on the layout! The long haul tender really sets it off too. Thanks, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18468	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: bowser mountain

Nice to see that someone is still impressed by the Bowser steam engines. I have a complete collection of all the kits (they are built) and their details that Bowser ever sold--including the rare venture into a brass tender that came along years after the solid brass one of 1948. They used the mold from it to make the Zemac ones that were sold at the end of their steam business to replace worn out ones.   Art W In a message dated 2/27/2012 9:13:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tomvanhoy@... writes: Thanks, with a little help I found on the Bowser web site that they started making it in 1986.  Not as old as I thought, but still a nice heavy engine that should be a Beast on the layout!  The long haul tender really sets it off too. Thanks, Tom ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18469	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

Another update.... added three more cars which brings the total to 10. http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/ I still need 6 more: C&O gondola, Southern flat car, CN(?) ore car - on the way. Another ore car with the sloped sides, a PRR MDC caboose, and the still elusive Ulrich Erie hopper. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18470	From: Larry	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

Andy, Looking forward to seeing the whole freight running on vintage track. Larry From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dad's Freight Train Another update....  added three more cars which brings the total to 10. http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/ I still need 6 more:  C&O gondola, Southern flat car, CN(?) ore car - on the way.  Another ore car with the sloped sides, a PRR MDC caboose, and the still elusive Ulrich Erie hopper. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18471	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: bowser mountain

Tom, By the date you found for this model, I have to presume you're talking about the die-cast PRR M1a Mountain with the Belpaire firebox, but not the cast bronze M-1 from 1950, as Malcolm and possibly a few others here thought. That date's about right as right before that time, I bought my PRR M-1 (and included an extra PRR M-1 in the order as the price was unbeatable). The PRR M1a was brought out shortly after then, although at the time, I didn't know it was going to be produced. Now, I wish I would have traded one of my M-1 kits for an M1a kit but that's the way it goes. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18472	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: bowser muntain

@erie.. Pardon my ignorance, but not sure what a Belpair firebox looks like! Anyway this is a diecast zamac type boiler, not brass or bronze. Everything looks to match the pics on Hoseeker exactly for the M-1A. Not super detailed, but still a nice machine. Will post when we get it listed. Thanks, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18473	From: Charles	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: bowser muntain

A Belpaire firebox is an unmistakable square shape that is evidence by what looks sort of like shoulders in front of the locomotive cab. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belpaire_firebox As the above article says, the Pennsylvania and Great Northern tended to have these. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tomvanhoy" <tomvanhoy@...> wrote: > > @erie.. Pardon my ignorance, but not sure what a Belpair firebox looks like! Anyway this is a diecast zamac type boiler, not brass or bronze. Everything looks to match the pics on Hoseeker exactly for the M-1A. Not super detailed, but still a nice machine. Will post when we get it listed. > Thanks, > Tom >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18474	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Belpaire firebox

Thanks for the info Chuck. It is quite different from the other Mountain versions and helped me identify it, just didn't know the name. You learn something new all the time on this forum! Thanks, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18475	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote: > > Andy, > Looking forward to seeing the whole freight running on vintage track. To really do it right, I should shoot the picture with my Leica M3 on Plus-X black & white film, develop it in D-76 in a Kindermann stainless steel tank, and print it with a Beseler 23C enlarger on Kodak Kodabromide F2 ferrotyped and dried on a Premier flat canvas dryer... I think though a digital photo might convey it better... :-) I did find this faded, red-shifted gem. My dad loved to take pictures of ordinary things, or events - he took a shot of the 1957 Christmas tree and I cropped it down to reveal this incredible view of some then brand-new vintage stuff: http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/dadstrain1957.jpg Can you spot: * Mantua Shifter * MDC Pennsy caboose * Athearn UTLX 3-dome tank car * John English metal passenger cars * Mantua Pacific * MDC GN box car * International Niagara with UP tender * MDC Katy box car * Athearn Monon double-door box car * scratchbuilt water tower (I still have this, intact) * Ulrich Monon trailer Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18476	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

See how many vintage bits of HO train history you can spot in this picture: http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/howard.jpg This layout belonged to a Mr. Garnet Howard, an acquaintance of my dad's that he was able to talk into letting us come (dad with us kids) for an operating session. I don't know if that is Mr. Howard at the controls, or one of his other guests that night. The layout occupied the half-basement of a 2-family house and it was the biggest layout I ever saw, especially this massive yard that took up much of the center space. The year is probably 1965. Not long after our visit, Mr. Howard knocked down the wall dividing the basement, tore up and sold off his HO stuff, and started building an O scale layout. After some time, he sold off the O and decided he could build a bigger better HO layout in twice the space. And apparently after getting started on that, the word at the hobby shop was he had sold all his train stuff and bought an electric organ. At any rate, never crossed paths with him again in the hobby. I have to sheepishly admit to buying this for myself for Christmas this year: http://www.gp30.com/haggis/hammond3.jpg... but no trains were sacrificed in the process. Anyway have at it... the picture was taken indoors with Ektachrome in a basement with a handheld Leica IIIf camera, and it's not exactly high on depth of field or lighting consistency, but there's still a lot to be seen in the fuzzy photo. I can identify a few of the cars, but many of them don't jump out at me. Some obvious Athearn streamline passenger cars visible, and check out those massive Marnostat throttle consoles. Old old school layout design here, right of of the pages of 1950s MR. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18477	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

> I have to sheepishly admit to buying this for myself for Christmas this year: http://www.gp30.com/haggis/hammond3.jpg... but no trains were sacrificed in the process. Correct url: http://www.gp30.com/haggis/hammond3.jpg Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18478	From: erieberk	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Available; La Belle Coach Kit

As there were a good amount of messages posted last Summer by many of our members, and more recent posts the last couple months, on La Belle showing a good deal of interest in this manufacturer, I'm offering for sale here a mint-in-box La Belle HO-1 1905 Coach kit (less trucks & couplers) which I have an extra of -- with Don's approval off line -- before I put it up on eBay. This is a 60' closed vestibule coach -- all pre-cut and milled wood. There was one on eBay (160744746825) which closed this past Monday at $33.75. There are also two others up there as Buy-It-Nows, with the lowest one priced at $29.99. I'm asking $22.00 (or best offer), plus $5.50 Priority Mail, for this kit in trying to keep it within a much fairer range. I accept only U.S. Postal Money Orders. Ray F. W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18479	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

Or borrow my 4x5 Speed Graphic and............ I've enjoyed your posts, thank you. Dennis At 12:14 AM 2/29/2012, you wrote: >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote: > > > > Andy, > > Looking forward to seeing the whole freight running on vintage track. > >To really do it right, I should shoot the picture with my Leica M3 >on Plus-X black & white film, develop it in D-76 in a Kindermann >stainless steel tank, and print it with a Beseler 23C enlarger on >Kodak Kodabromide F2 ferrotyped and dried on a Premier flat canvas dryer... > >I think though a digital photo might convey it better... :-) > >I did find this faded, red-shifted gem. My dad loved to take >pictures of ordinary things, or events - he took a shot of the 1957 >Christmas tree and I cropped it down to reveal this incredible view >of some then brand-new vintage stuff: >http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/dadstrain1957.jpg > >Can you spot: >* Mantua Shifter >* MDC Pennsy caboose >* Athearn UTLX 3-dome tank car >* John English metal passenger cars >* Mantua Pacific >* MDC GN box car >* International Niagara with UP tender >* MDC Katy box car >* Athearn Monon double-door box car >* scratchbuilt water tower (I still have this, intact) >* Ulrich Monon trailer > >Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18480	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Hi ! Looks like a lot of Athearn and Roundhouse freight car kits, hard to identify exactly but it does look like a couple of possible Bachmann triple deck auto racks, a couple of LifeLike circus flats, an Atlas switch/interlocking tower, is that an Athearn U-boat under the bridge? and what about that RDC up front - Athearn or ATT? All in all, a pretty typical mid-late60s layout, except for the Marn-o-stats - definately hi level at the time! Semi-finished scenery. Is that a couple of Varney or Bachmann/Plasticville signal bridges in the background by the trestle? And the caboose by the switch tower - for the 60s would that be a Tyco dressed up? Someone else jump in and lets see what we can tentatively identify? By the way - stumbled onto a 1953 RMC construction article for a 2 x 3 2mm scale layout - That's N scale folks - more exactly 1:152 scale, still popular scale in the UK and former holdings including the Far East. 1:160 and 9mm gauge was a compromise that came later to accomodate mixing Continental and UK models. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 2/29/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: > See how many vintage bits of HO train history you can spot in this picture: > > http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/howard.jpg > > This layout belonged to a Mr. Garnet Howard, an acquaintance of my dad's > that he was able to talk into letting us come (dad with us kids) for an > operating session. I don't know if that is Mr. Howard at the controls, or > one of his other guests that night. The layout occupied the half-basement > of a 2-family house and it was the biggest layout I ever saw, especially > this massive yard that took up much of the center space. > > The year is probably 1965. > > Not long after our visit, Mr. Howard knocked down the wall dividing the > basement, tore up and sold off his HO stuff, and started building an O scale > layout. After some time, he sold off the O and decided he could build a > bigger better HO layout in twice the space. And apparently after getting > started on that, the word at the hobby shop was he had sold all his train > stuff and bought an electric organ. At any rate, never crossed paths with > him again in the hobby. > > I have to sheepishly admit to buying this for myself for Christmas this > year: http://www.gp30.com/haggis/hammond3.jpg... but no trains were > sacrificed in the process. > > Anyway have at it... the picture was taken indoors with Ektachrome in a > basement with a handheld Leica IIIf camera, and it's not exactly high on > depth of field or lighting consistency, but there's still a lot to be seen > in the fuzzy photo. I can identify a few of the cars, but many of them > don't jump out at me. Some obvious Athearn streamline passenger cars > visible, and check out those massive Marnostat throttle consoles. Old old > school layout design here, right of of the pages of 1950s MR. > > Andy > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18481	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Yes, I would agree that is a pretty typical layout for the era, (including the Atlas switch tower) - lots of track with complex switching and not much scenery or structures. Not much thought given to the "logic" or "business" of the railroad, just lots of trains going around in complex loops. Armstrong and Allen, among others started to change all of that, suggesting that 1. the railroad being modeled should serve a business purpose and 2. the railroad was not the dominant element over the scenery and the communities the railroad served. It is fun to watch this transition take place while going through the back issues of MR in the CD's I bought in December. I haven't started reading all the articles, just glancing through the issues and watching the evolution of the hobby, starting about the time I entered the hobby in the early 50's. And, just so you don't get the impression that I am some kind of hobby snob, my layout is pretty much a reflection of the "old school", although I have tried to place more emphasis on the "community" and less on the tracks as time went on. Mike On 2/29/2012 8:43 AM, Jacob Bechtel wrote: > Hi ! > Looks like a lot of Athearn and Roundhouse freight car kits, hard > to identify exactly but it does look like a couple of possible > Bachmann triple deck auto racks, a couple of LifeLike circus flats, an > Atlas switch/interlocking tower, is that an Athearn U-boat under the > bridge? and what about that RDC up front - Athearn or ATT? All in > all, a pretty typical mid-late60s layout, except for the Marn-o-stats > - definately hi level at the time! Semi-finished scenery. Is that a > couple of Varney or Bachmann/Plasticville signal bridges in the > background by the trestle? And the caboose by the switch tower - for > the 60s would that be a Tyco dressed up? > > Someone else jump in and lets see what we can tentatively identify?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18482	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

> Looks like a lot of Athearn and Roundhouse freight car kits, hard > to identify exactly but it does look like a couple of possible > Bachmann triple deck auto racks I spotted what appears to be an auto rack as well, which is kind of a surprise. I don't think Bachmann's full size tri-level goes back to the mid 60s, I think it's a late 70s creation. In fact the only tri-level racks available in the 60s were Quality Craft's wood spaghetti kit. I have one of those somewhere unbuilt. , a couple of LifeLike circus flats, an The circus train is an interesting cobbling - I guess it's pretty typical. I never paid much attention to circus stuff so I wouldn't be able to ID much of it. > Atlas switch/interlocking tower, is that an Athearn U-boat under the > bridge? Whatever is under the bridge is just too fuzzy to make out. I don't think the Athearn U-boats came along until 1969 or 70, but it could be about any other Athearn loco. Definitely an Atlas tower - I just built one of those for my grandson's Christmas layout... still the same kit, molded in the same colors. >and what about that RDC up front - Athearn or ATT? I first heard of ATT in 1968. I don't know much about them, but the law of probability says it's Athearn. > background by the trestle? And the caboose by the switch tower - >for the 60s would that be a Tyco dressed up? There appears to be a stationary caboose body behind the Atlas tower, it almost looks like it's an unpainted wood kit. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18483	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers.  :o) I built one in the late 1960's or early 1970's when they were brand new.  These cars were pretty much ubiquitous in the Detroit area, hmm, I wonder why?  Anyway, after I brought the kit home and looked inside, I thought I may have bitten off more than I could handle.  Surprisingly, I was able to put it together very nicely and paint and decal it.  I still have it in my collection and am right proud of it.  Of course, I was in my early twenties back then and my eyes and fingers were a lot better.  I can still do the same work today, but I need to wear magnifiers and make sure I don't drink too much coffee.   Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC In fact the only tri-level racks available in the 60s were Quality Craft's wood spaghetti kit. I have one of those somewhere unbuilt.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18484	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Varney Celluloid Passenger

Attachments : IMG_7762.JPG IMG_7758.JPG These will be the last pictures of the Varney wood & celluloid sided passenger cars. Don't all cheer at once. I have finished all 7 cars. I have to wait for the skinny ladder material I want. One problem has to be corrected on the Obs. The previous owner / builder probably couldn't get the one piece wrap around to sit right on the back end. He / She put 4 small nails to hold it down that had rusted with time. With the nails out they left 4 holes that don't look good close up. I have to fix the and probably retouch the colors ( silver and blue ) to make it look right. Now to find a shelf where I can fit them on the wall. I might have to do some moving to get enough room . Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18485	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Hi All, This is fun ! Geeze it is hard to remember all of the "one man" companies that were around back then. So much of the stuff looks familiar but is hard to pin down! As I think back, very few of us in the Baltimore region built more than a couple of the "craftsman" kits back then. Athearn and Roundhouse, Tyco/Mantua. Life Like and Bachmann were just so reasonable in cost that we grabed them up and saved for something like Quality Craft or Northeastern. When I got out of the Service in 62' my first jobs only paid $0.85 to $1.25 and hour so we didn't "splurge" much. $0.99 to $1.95 cars filled our layouts. I Think I got my ATT RDCs in the late 50s, they weren't bad and were a reasonable price. Besides, they had gear drive, not rubber bands and 200 mph ! AHM was there and one of those fuzzy cars suggest the yellow AHM track cleaner hopper, (I still have mine.) Woolworth had the AHM freight cars for $0.88 almost all the time. AHM locos were also super priced at Woolworth. You could get a Big Boy in the 60s for less than a Mantua/Tyco Pacific kit. Jake Bechtel On 2/29/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers. > :o)I built one in the late 1960's or early 1970's when they were brand new. > These cars were pretty much ubiquitous in the Detroit area, hmm, I wonder > why? Anyway, after I brought the kit home and looked inside, I thought I > may have bitten off more than I could handle. Surprisingly, I was able to > put it together very nicely and paint and decal it. I still have it in my > collection and am right proud of it. Of course, I was in my early twenties > back then and my eyes and fingers were a lot better. I can still do the > same work today, but I need to wear magnifiers and make sure I don't drink > too much coffee. Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18486	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim,   On site, they look very good in the photos.  I am sure you will be able to plug those holes.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Celluloid Passenger [2 Attachments]     These will be the last pictures of the Varney wood & celluloid sided passenger cars. Don't all cheer at once. I have finished all 7 cars. I have to wait for the skinny ladder material I want. One problem has to be corrected on the Obs. The previous owner / builder probably couldn't get the one piece wrap around to sit right on the back end. He / She put 4 small nails to hold it down that had rusted with time. With the nails out they left 4 holes that don't look good close up. I have to fix the and probably retouch the colors ( silver and blue ) to make it look right. Now to find a shelf where I can fit them on the wall. I might have to do some moving to get enough room . Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18487	From: erieberk	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger

Y Y Y A A A A A Y Y -- the last pics!!! (LOL -- LOL). Great work Jim, again, the pics reflect what you put put into them. They look exceptional. Keep these projects coming < g >. Best, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > These will be the last pictures of the Varney wood & celluloid > sided passenger cars. Don't all cheer at once. I have finished all 7 > cars. I have to wait for the skinny ladder material I want. One problem > has to be corrected on the Obs. The previous owner / builder probably > couldn't get the one piece wrap around to sit right on the back end. He > / She put 4 small nails to hold it down that had rusted with time. With > the nails out they left 4 holes that don't look good close up. I have to > fix the and probably retouch the colors ( silver and blue ) to make it > look right. > > Now to find a shelf where I can fit them on the wall. I might > have to do some moving to get enough room . > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18488	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Victor, I agree, those Quality Craft auto racks looked daunting, but were actually easier than it looked to assemble one. I bought such a kit at a hobby shop near Milwaukee. Sommerfelds Trains. They sometimes have good old stuff at reasonable prices, and I think I got my Quality Craft car for $5. I was also in my early 20s. This was maybe four or five years ago. Touching on the coffee, I have degenerative disc disorder in my back, and arthritis and muscle damage in my left knee. So, when the weather changes (Quite often, lately, the winter has been very rough on my like that), I end up taking pain meds that run me down. For about a three hour window after taking them, I am alert enough to do fine model work, but it also slows up my nerves to where the very fine work is easier and turns out better. I did an "A" Frame sign for the top of a scratchbuilt factory lately, made the frame of stripwood. Turned out amazingly well, considering the space I was working with and the amount of work. Now, running my own business, I do end up consuming a lot of coffee throughout the day to keep going if I have pain meds the night before. Best to not do any finer work when the caffeine is going through me! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 2/29/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven? To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 10:10 AM   You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers.  :o) I built one in the late 1960's or early 1970's when they were brand new.  These cars were pretty much ubiquitous in the Detroit area, hmm, I wonder why?  Anyway, after I brought the kit home and looked inside, I thought I may have bitten off more than I could handle.  Surprisingly, I was able to put it together very nicely and paint and decal it.  I still have it in my collection and am right proud of it.  Of course, I was in my early twenties back then and my eyes and fingers were a lot better.  I can still do the same work today, but I need to wear magnifiers and make sure I don't drink too much coffee.   Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC In fact the only tri-level racks available in the 60s were Quality Craft's wood spaghetti kit. I have one of those somewhere unbuilt.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18489	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Does it count if you had one and didn't finish it? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven? You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers. :o)I built one in the late 1960's or early 1970's when they were brand new. These cars were pretty much ubiquitous in the Detroit area, hmm, I wonder why? Anyway, after I brought the kit home and looked inside, I thought I may have bitten off more than I could handle. Surprisingly, I was able to put it together very nicely and paint and decal it. I still have it in my collection and am right proud of it. Of course, I was in my early twenties back then and my eyes and fingers were a lot better. I can still do the same work today, but I need to wear magnifiers and make sure I don't drink too much coffee. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC In fact the only tri-level racks available in the 60s were Quality Craft's wood spaghetti kit. I have one of those somewhere unbuilt.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18490	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

> You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers. Did you build the one with the cast metal uprights, or the original where you had to fabricate those out of spaghetti as well? I have two of the kits, one I bought around 1977 and another one I bought on ebay a couple years ago. Both have the metal uprights. My plan has always been to build the cars out of styrene shapes in place of the wood, and probably use the metal uprights or perhaps fabricate them out of plastic as well. The thing is the 86' rack it represents was all but out of service by 1970, and I model 1975. I like vintage stuff but not enough to build one of these just for the "experience". We gave my dad one of the QC racks in the mid 60s for his birthday. It was the original without the metal uprights. I remember he put the basic flat car underframe together, and added some weight in the center sill. He had trouble adding the longitudinal strips on the decks - they wandered all over the place. He never even started on the uprights. The kit long ago was scattered and gone. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18491	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: weather changes (Quite often, lately, the winter has been very rough on my like that), I end up taking pain meds that run me down. For about a three hour window after taking them, I am alert enough to do fine model work, but it also slows up my nerves to where the very fine work is easier and turns out better. I've always taken primarily aspirin for pain and it works well, just keeps things loose. But I just went through a kidney stone bout, and it was *after* the stone removal the real fun started with bleeding and other painful complications. I couldn't take aspirin because of the bleeding so I was taking percocet. Now it takes the edge off the pain (although doesn't do squat for a headache) and I did find it made doing fine work easier although I can't explain why. I don't really feel it until I stand up. But now I've gotten clearance to go back to taking aspirin again and all the plumbing is working correctly. The pain meds are a relatively new experience for me, but three times in the past 18 months I've been on them due to surgery and/or acute stones. I can certainly see why people get hooked on them. Those #4 Kadee springs are fun... there are times I can do 10 in a row without a problem, and there are times when 10 in a row fly off into space. Tonight I lost all four of my steel springs that came with the #4 set, so I wound up using the copper knuckle springs - which I have hundreds of. They're a little softer, but for my vintage application they work fine. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18492	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Does it count if you had one and didn't finish it? It sure increases the membership in the club. About 10x :-) Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18493	From: greendoddz	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

LOL... all this talk about eyesight and shaky hands and pain pills and slipped discs makes me think this might be the Vintage People forum :-) I've been remarkably healthy my entire life considering I've been overweight since I was 12 years old, and never really been in great shape. The fun really started shortly before I turned 53... kidney stone, gall bladder, then endocarditis, kidney stone again, chest pains (turned out to be pleurisy), blocked bladder and more fun... and every time an anesthesiologist gets a look at my ekg, which is wacky, I get more "free" heart tests. Until July 3 of 2011, I had never spent the night in a hospital. There are things that make me feel old, like my granddaughter's upcoming 18th birthday. But opening up a Roundhouse diecast box car kit that is my age and has never been touched and the paint is still bright and crisp kinda makes me feel young. Until I try to stick that Kadee #4 spring in the box anyway. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18494	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Hi Andy, Yes, the one I built did not have cast metal uprights.  They had to be fabricated out of stripwood.  There was a LOT of stripwood in that kit, most of it very small.  As a matter of fact, it did not have a cast anything.  It did come with plastic coupler boxes and brake gear.  I have a newer version that can be built as a double decker or a triple decker and yes, it has the cast uprights, but I feel like the fabricated ones from stripwood look a lot better. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: greendoddz@... Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 06:24:12 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?   > You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers. Did you build the one with the cast metal uprights, or the original where you had to fabricate those out of spaghetti as well? I have two of the kits, one I bought around 1977 and another one I bought on ebay a couple years ago. Both have the metal uprights. My plan has always been to build the cars out of styrene shapes in place of the wood, and probably use the metal uprights or perhaps fabricate them out of plastic as well. The thing is the 86' rack it represents was all but out of service by 1970, and I model 1975. I like vintage stuff but not enough to build one of these just for the "experience". We gave my dad one of the QC racks in the mid 60s for his birthday. It was the original without the metal uprights. I remember he put the basic flat car underframe together, and added some weight in the center sill. He had trouble adding the longitudinal strips on the decks - they wandered all over the place. He never even started on the uprights. The kit long ago was scattered and gone. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18495	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

hi Don, It only counts if you plan on finishing it and posting a photo.  VBG! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: don.dellmann@... > Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:24:20 -0600 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven? > > Does it count if you had one and didn't finish it? > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18496	From: John H	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

Vic, That may be true from a members point of view. But from an owners point of view, maybe not. Anyway I'm glad YOU told Don that. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > hi Don,It only counts if you plan on finishing it and posting a photo. VBG!Regards,Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: don.dellmann@... > > Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:24:20 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven? > > > > Does it count if you had one and didn't finish it? > > > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18497	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

Hi John, I said it with a Very Big Grin (VBG). :o) However, I do think it would be cool for folks in this group to resurrect forgotten models that are partially assembled or in need of some restoration and show before and after photos.  Or at least discuss these things. I just recently, over the Christmas holidays, completed a Gloor Craft composite, war emergency, NKP hopper.  I started it over 20 years ago and it lay forgotten, because it was a chore to build.  I pushed myself to build it and did indeed finish it, painted it and decaled it.  It now sits on my railroad, so I am happy with it.  But, when I look at it compared to other hoppers, like my Ulrich ones, it looks a bit oversize.  Has anyone else had any experiences with this kit?  I believe it initially came out as an Ambrid kit.  Maybe no one else had the gumption to complete one of these? :o)  I never did like the way the couplers were intended to be mounted, so I made up some brass plates and drilled and threaded them for Kadee #5's.  I was able to secure the .032 brass easily enough to the end frames and they are pretty secure now. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 15:07:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier   Vic, That may be true from a members point of view. But from an owners point of view, maybe not. Anyway I'm glad YOU told Don that. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > hi Don,It only counts if you plan on finishing it and posting a photo. VBG!Regards,Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: don.dellmann@... > > Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:24:20 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven? > > > > Does it count if you had one and didn't finish it? > > > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18498	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Before & After Pictures

Attachments : IMG_7771.JPG IMG_7768.JPG Vic, John, All, I totally agree that we should take before and after pictures of projects. I'm guilty as I should do it all the time but don't think about it. I did save one before & after picture of pieces I found for sale on eBay ( first picture ) and the completed fantasy model I made from those pieces. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18499	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Before & After Pictures [2 Attachments]

Wow Jim, It looks like you started out with some kind of basket case.  I can't even tell it is supposed to be, but the finished product looks really good. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 10:53:51 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Before & After Pictures [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Vic, John, All, I totally agree that we should take before and after pictures of projects. I'm guilty as I should do it all the time but don't think about it. I did save one before & after picture of pieces I found for sale on eBay ( first picture ) and the completed fantasy model I made from those pieces. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18500	From: Jay	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

Hi All, I read this thread with a big grin as that original Quality Craft Tri-level Auto Rack Car kit was my introduction to scale model building and realizing there was more in the hobby for me than shaking a box, as much fun as that was - "instant new model freight cars!" I was in my early teens when that Quality Crfat kit was introduced and it was just what I was looking for (a modern freight car!) as I and my father had seen the open rack Tri-levels, Thrall Co. prototypes as I recall, being loaded in the back of the giant Ford Mawah (NJ) assembly plant, fittingly often on the way to or from Hi-Way Hobby in Ramsey. When I read about the kit in MR and found it was already sold out at the shop, I carefully counted my $5.95, over a month's "earnings", purchased a money order in the local bank and sent it to Qualtiy Craft Co. In a matter of days, my kit, ATSF version, was waiting for me when I arrived home from school. I guess I was somewhat taken aback when I opened the box, but was soon reading the detailed step by step instructions. My mom spoke some words of encouragement, saying that my dad would help me, though he had not been an active scale modeler since the 1940's. (He was an award winning scale model builder in his younger days: 1930's Fisher Body Coach NY regional prize winner, also various NYSME prizes. That led to work as a professional architectural model and diorama builder, mostly for the 1939-1940 NY Worlds Fair, also work for MRRECo. on W. 45th in NYC and he was a member of the NYSME for most of the 1940's.) Dad was also somwhat frugal, and after he "hit the ceiling" when he came home and saw how much I spent for "a box of sticks" (this was circa 1964-65?) he settled down after supper and we began the project by carefully reading and re-reading the plans, counting out sticks, telling me it would take quite a while to assemble it. He was right, it took the entire winter, composed of various weeked afternoons and occasional evenings. He gathered together all of his old model building tools, the small squares, clamps, scales, pin vices and drills and showed me how to properly use them. We went through each step in detail, and he taught me how to make jigs to cut the similar pieces exactly the same. There were a lot of sub assemblies to make as those wood uprights had about 7-8 pieces each I recall, and he showed me how to make a jig for that task. The importance of square cuts, keeping parts to be glued at right angles and waiting the proper time for the glur to dry, often overnight, was sometimes a bone of contention as I wanted to see it finished! But dad prevailed and by the time it was ready for some of the final detailing and brake lines, etc., I was doing much of the work on my own. He had some Cerrobend and showed me how to melt that and cast a weight for the hollow centerbeam, using a wood mold we made. It fit perfectly. Though sometimes frustrating when we banged heads, building that model together was a wonderful experience, an apprentiship from both a professional modeler and my dad, something I would not trade all the great models I have now for. But guess what? We never painted the model! At first, dad had to locate a compressor, hose and set up his air brush, and show me how to use it, but that was delayed for a while. Then we and visitors, began to appreciate the model not only for its accuracy, but also for its all wood construction from the "box of sticks." I still have it and will suppy a photo as soon as I quit buying more neat models on eBay and get a new camera. In the mean time, this week I will try to dig out and get a scan of an old photo or two I took of it on my old layout back in the day. After that, my next models were the Ambroid Center Flows, then their 5,000 in 1 C&O Coil car. With my model building confidence and skills increasing, the next summer I measured and scratchbuilt a model of our local railraod station, becomming familiar with every part of it and learnming to appreciate its architectural and historic beauty. That somehow lead to me joining and then being chairman of the group that obtained grants to restore that same station and turn it into a town museum 45 years later. All that might not have occurred if I had not had that scale modeling apprenticship with my dad 45+ years ago with that Quality Craft Tri- level Auto Rack! W. Jay W. Ps. At about the same time as Quality Craft, Con-Cor also introduced craftsman type kits for Tri-level and Bi-level auto rack cars as well, but their kit modeled the somewhat simpler Dana Corp. open autorack and had corrugated metal for each upper floor. In the 1980's Red Ball's Merle Rice (Hi Merle!) produced kits for the Dana Tri-level and bi-level racks as part of his Cannonball injection molded line which were to be assembled onto a standard Atheran flat, in the same way as the prototype racks were assembled on TTX cars. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John,I said it with a Very Big Grin (VBG). :o) > However, I do think it would be cool for folks in this group to resurrect forgotten models that are partially assembled or in need of some restoration and show before and after photos. Or at least discuss these things. > I just recently, over the Christmas holidays, completed a Gloor Craft composite, war emergency, NKP hopper. I started it over 20 years ago and it lay forgotten, because it was a chore to build. I pushed myself to build it and did indeed finish it, painted it and decaled it. It now sits on my railroad, so I am happy with it. But, when I look at it compared to other hoppers, like my Ulrich ones, it looks a bit oversize. Has anyone else had any experiences with this kit? I believe it initially came out as an Ambrid kit. Maybe no one else had the gumption to complete one of these? :o) I never did like the way the couplers were intended to be mounted, so I made up some brass plates and drilled and threaded them for Kadee #5's. I was able to secure the .032 brass easily enough to the end frames and they are pretty secure now.Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: sprinthag@... > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 15:07:07 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vic, > > > > That may be true from a members point of view. But from an owners point of view, maybe not. Anyway I'm glad YOU told Don that. > > > > John Hagen > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > hi Don,It only counts if you plan on finishing it and posting a photo. VBG!Regards,Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > From: don.dellmann@ > > > > Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:24:20 -0600 > > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven? > > > > > > > > Does it count if you had one and didn't finish it? > > > > > > > > Don > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18501	From: Jay	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger

Hi Jim (H.) - Great to see the whole B&O "Royal Blue" consist restored to this quality condition. Your work continues to serve as an inspiration for those having incomplete kits or $4 table items needing a restoration. Seeing the various vintage passenger cars in your collection over the past few years has created a keener interest in vintage passenger cars for me. Just found the 9th car I needed in the American Beauty Great Northern Empire Builder 85' car consist and only need two to complete, the GN-2 mail baggage and GN-5 day-nite coach and for the PRR consist, only need the 85' Pennsylvania PE-4 coach, but still skip those with usurious prices on eBay, lol. For motive power I have an A&B pair of hobbytown of Boston E-7's, both with the giant DC-91 motors, with the Penn Line Empire Builder GG-1 in reserve. Have you considered motive power for your B&O colors Varney Celluloid Consist? - Though slightly newer vintage, the circa 1970's Cary slant nosed EMC EA and EB cast white metal bodies would be nice with hobbytown chassis underneath. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > These will be the last pictures of the Varney wood & celluloid > sided passenger cars. Don't all cheer at once. I have finished all 7 > cars. I have to wait for the skinny ladder material I want. One problem > has to be corrected on the Obs. The previous owner / builder probably > couldn't get the one piece wrap around to sit right on the back end. He > / She put 4 small nails to hold it down that had rusted with time. With > the nails out they left 4 holes that don't look good close up. I have to > fix the and probably retouch the colors ( silver and blue ) to make it > look right. > > Now to find a shelf where I can fit them on the wall. I might > have to do some moving to get enough room . > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18502	From: Alan	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

I got one of these all wood kits off e-bay for 99 cents a couple months ago that was missing instructions,have those now,nice box of tiny sticks,its a little new for my time period but should keep me busy for awhile when I decide to build it,hopefully some of the decals and instructions is all its missing although it did come with a nicely built,painted and lettered stock car door,its yellow so I believe it was probably being used for color matching and got left in box,hope original owner isn't still looking for it.Glad to hear it just looks difficult.Now I wonder if their is a difference in instructions for metal and wood upright kits I never looked to see what pieces were in kit when reading instructions and its now mixed in with all the other to be built someday kits somewhere. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > You ain't lived til you built one of those Quality Craft triple deckers. :o)I built one in the late 1960's or early 1970's when they were brand new. These cars were pretty much ubiquitous in the Detroit area, hmm, I wonder why? Anyway, after I brought the kit home and looked inside, I thought I may have bitten off more than I could handle. Surprisingly, I was able to put it together very nicely and paint and decal it. I still have it in my collection and am right proud of it. Of course, I was in my early twenties back then and my eyes and fingers were a lot better. I can still do the same work today, but I need to wear magnifiers and make sure I don't drink too much coffee. Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > > In fact the only tri-level racks available in the 60s were Quality Craft's wood spaghetti kit. I have one of those somewhere unbuilt. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18503	From: John H	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

Well, it ain't 20 years but the Mantua/MDC GB&W 0-6-0 I stared close to three years ago ahsn't been touched in over two years. What I have had sitting for close to 20 years (which is really OT for this group) is my O scale RS-2 that is converted from a Weaver RS-3. I got two of them and did one as GB&W #305. The other one I converted to a RS-2 which took a fair amount of work. Thing is I have the conversion done. I just have to finish the partially done handrails and paint. Been sitting now for at least 18 years. The 0-6-0 will come first. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John,I said it with a Very Big Grin (VBG). :o) > However, I do think it would be cool for folks in this group to resurrect forgotten models that are partially assembled or in need of some restoration and show before and after photos. Or at least discuss these things. > I just recently, over the Christmas holidays, completed a Gloor Craft composite, war emergency, NKP hopper. I started it over 20 years ago and it lay forgotten, because it was a chore to build. I pushed myself to build it and did indeed finish it, painted it and decaled it. It now sits on my railroad, so I am happy with it. But, when I look at it compared to other hoppers, like my Ulrich ones, it looks a bit oversize. Has anyone else had any experiences with this kit? I believe it initially came out as an Ambrid kit. Maybe no one else had the gumption to complete one of these? :o) I never did like the way the couplers were intended to be mounted, so I made up some brass plates and drilled and threaded them for Kadee #5's. I was able to secure the .032 brass easily enough to the end frames and they are pretty secure now.Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18504	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

Hi Jay, What a wonderful story.  I love it.  I think that anyone who can build Silver Streak cars can easily build a Quality Craft Tri-level Auto Rack.  I do remember that the instructions were very clear about the assembly, so it if you followed them, you were going to be successful.  I did not have an airbrush at the time, but Floquil was still a lacquer based paint and totally flat at that time.   It was really easy to brush paint with no brush marks.  I am very proud of that build as well as the paint job and decaling.  Mine was an ATSF as well.  I suppose I should pull it out and take some pictures of it for the Photo Section.  I do not run it on the railroad, heck it is an 85 footer and circa late 60's, early 70's.  My railroad has 24 inch radius curves and tops out at the mid 50's.  But, I do enjoy building cars like that.  I also built the Ambroid Cushion Coil car, but need to repair the hood stacking and lift irons.  Over the years they broke.  I know the birth date of those B&O series 3800 was 1965 in Plymouth Mi. at the Evans Products factory.  In the late 1960's, I saw those cars just about everywhere.  You can't find one of those B&O Coil cars to save your life these days.  When I was much younger and still repairing computers and data processing equipment for IBM back then, I actually went to the Evans plant and saw how they built freight cars.  The plant I went to built box cars tho.  I think they were auto parts cars, but I can't remember exactly.  They were painted boxcar red, so they looked just like anything else out there. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 17:14:37 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier   Hi All, I read this thread with a big grin as that original Quality Craft Tri-level Auto Rack Car kit was my introduction to scale model building and realizing there was more in the hobby for me than shaking a box, as much fun as that was - "instant new model freight cars!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18505	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Celluloid Passenger

Hi W. Jay W. & Jim, I was thinking that the Varney streamlined Pacific, painted the same blue, would be perfect! On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Hi Jim (H.) - Great to see the whole B&O "Royal Blue" consist restored to this quality condition. Your work continues to serve as an inspiration for those having incomplete kits or $4 table items needing a restoration. Seeing the various vintage passenger cars in your collection over the past few years has created a keener interest in vintage passenger cars for me. Just found the 9th car I needed in the American Beauty Great Northern Empire Builder 85' car consist and only need two to complete, the GN-2 mail baggage and GN-5 day-nite coach and for the PRR consist, only need the 85' Pennsylvania PE-4 coach, but still skip those with usurious prices on eBay, lol. For motive power I have an A&B pair of hobbytown of Boston E-7's, both with the giant DC-91 motors, with the Penn Line Empire Builder GG-1 in reserve. Have you considered motive power for your B&O colors Varney Celluloid Consist? - Though slightly newer vintage, the circa 1970's Cary slant nosed EMC EA and EB cast white metal bodies would be nice with hobbytown chassis underneath. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > These will be the last pictures of the Varney wood & celluloid > sided passenger cars. Don't all cheer at once. I have finished all 7 > cars. I have to wait for the skinny ladder material I want. One problem > has to be corrected on the Obs. The previous owner / builder probably > couldn't get the one piece wrap around to sit right on the back end. He > / She put 4 small nails to hold it down that had rusted with time. With > the nails out they left 4 holes that don't look good close up. I have to > fix the and probably retouch the colors ( silver and blue ) to make it > look right. > > Now to find a shelf where I can fit them on the wall. I might > have to do some moving to get enough room . > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18506	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Found a difference

Attachments : IMG_7776.JPG IMG_7774.JPG Ray F W, W Jay W, Walter B, I said I wouldn't take a picture of the Varney pre war with Celluloid sides in B&O like colors again but I found a space for them right under the post war Celluloid sides in NYC like colors. Specifically for Ray F W and others, did you know the pre war Observation ( Almost 9&1/2" ) and the post war observation ( 11" ) are different sizes for full size cars? ( Picture 1 ) Or is the Blue Observation one of the Junior Streamliner kits, PA-8, mixed in with this set ? No lengths for these Junior Streamliner kits given but states outwardly identical to the deluxe cars ( Page 65 Spanagel's Varney Guide ) In the picture the front of the cars are even and look at the difference in length that the NYC Obs has. The NYC Obs. has a forth smaller window behind the door while the B&O only has three. I know Varney had shorty celluloid sided cars in Green & Yellow that are like C&NW, a 3 car set that were about 8" in length. I don't remember any other road name but C&NW. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18507	From: prandn	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Dad's Freight Train

Is the elusive Erie Hopper the same one that's pictured in Ulrich Hopper picture? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote: > > Andy, > Looking forward to seeing the whole freight running on vintage track. > Larry > > > ________________________________ > From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dad's Freight Train > > Another update....  added three more cars which brings the total to 10. > > http://www.gp30.com/vintage/dadstrain/ > > I still need 6 more:  C&O gondola, Southern flat car, CN(?) ore car - on the way.  Another ore car with the sloped sides, a PRR MDC caboose, and the still elusive Ulrich Erie hopper. > > Andy > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18508	From: Nelson	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

I blew up and sharpened the photo. The loco under the bridge looks like an Athearn GP30, which would fit the time frame. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > > Looks like a lot of Athearn and Roundhouse freight car kits, hard > > to identify exactly but it does look like a couple of possible > > Bachmann triple deck auto racks > > I spotted what appears to be an auto rack as well, which is kind of a surprise. I don't think Bachmann's full size tri-level goes back to the mid 60s, I think it's a late 70s creation. In fact the only tri-level racks available in the 60s were Quality Craft's wood spaghetti kit. I have one of those somewhere unbuilt. > > , a couple of LifeLike circus flats, an > > The circus train is an interesting cobbling - I guess it's pretty typical. I never paid much attention to circus stuff so I wouldn't be able to ID much of it. > > > Atlas switch/interlocking tower, is that an Athearn U-boat under the > > bridge? > > Whatever is under the bridge is just too fuzzy to make out. I don't think the Athearn U-boats came along until 1969 or 70, but it could be about any other Athearn loco. Definitely an Atlas tower - I just built one of those for my grandson's Christmas layout... still the same kit, molded in the same colors. > > >and what about that RDC up front - Athearn or ATT? > > I first heard of ATT in 1968. I don't know much about them, but the law of probability says it's Athearn. > > > background by the trestle? And the caboose by the switch tower - >for the 60s would that be a Tyco dressed up? > > There appears to be a stationary caboose body behind the Atlas tower, it almost looks like it's an unpainted wood kit. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18509	From: hooligan	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference

Many differences there , some obvious , some very subtle . Great work Jim . Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Ray F W, W Jay W, Walter B, > > I said I wouldn't take a picture of the Varney pre war with > Celluloid sides in B&O like colors again but I found a space for them > right under the post war Celluloid sides in NYC like colors. > > Specifically for Ray F W and others, did you know the pre war > Observation ( Almost 9&1/2" ) and the post war observation ( 11" ) > are different sizes for full size cars? ( Picture 1 ) Or is the Blue > Observation one of the Junior Streamliner kits, PA-8, mixed in with this > set ? No lengths for these Junior Streamliner kits given but states > outwardly identical to the deluxe cars ( Page 65 Spanagel's Varney > Guide ) In the picture the front of the cars are even and look at the > difference in length that the NYC Obs has. The NYC Obs. has a forth > smaller window behind the door while the B&O only has three. I know > Varney had shorty celluloid sided cars in Green & Yellow that are like > C&NW, a 3 car set that were about 8" in length. I don't remember any > other road name but C&NW. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18510	From: Jay	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference

Hi Jim H., Good to know about the potential differences between them. Perhaps your post will be remembered by someone when they find some of these celluliod kits and make an additional report. That wall of passenger car consists sure makes an impressive display! W.Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Ray F W, W Jay W, Walter B, > > I said I wouldn't take a picture of the Varney pre war with > Celluloid sides in B&O like colors again but I found a space for them > right under the post war Celluloid sides in NYC like colors. > > Specifically for Ray F W and others, did you know the pre war > Observation ( Almost 9&1/2" ) and the post war observation ( 11" ) > are different sizes for full size cars? ( Picture 1 ) Or is the Blue > Observation one of the Junior Streamliner kits, PA-8, mixed in with this > set ? No lengths for these Junior Streamliner kits given but states > outwardly identical to the deluxe cars ( Page 65 Spanagel's Varney > Guide ) In the picture the front of the cars are even and look at the > difference in length that the NYC Obs has. The NYC Obs. has a forth > smaller window behind the door while the B&O only has three. I know > Varney had shorty celluloid sided cars in Green & Yellow that are like > C&NW, a 3 car set that were about 8" in length. I don't remember any > other road name but C&NW. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18511	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Fwd: 75% of collection

Attachments : IMG_7799_2.JPG IMG_7798_2.JPG IMG_7796_2.JPG IMG_7795_2.JPG IMG_7794_2.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com All, Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976. Though other might like to see. Enjoy Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18512	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference [2 Attachments]

Jim, Good to see more pics from you. Yeah, I sure do see that difference in length. Wish I could tell you exactly why, but I can't give you anything definitive. I can tell you without a doubt, that this "Royal Blue" colored Obs is definitely not one of the shorty cars like the green & yellow PA-88 streamliner obs you have in mind, as for one thing the window configuration is entirely different (and the PA-88 shorty style is too short to be your car). While no length is given for the PA-88 green & yellow shorty streamliner obs, the matching PA-33 shorty streamliner Combine and the similar PA-44 shorty streamliner Day Coach are both a scale 60' long (that's only 9") and the Obs doesn't look any longer than these in the catalog photo. Your similar NYC PA-8 observation is cataloged as being a scale 75' long. This would be about 11 1/4" in actual length, as a scale 80' would be 12" long. Note -- that Junior Streamliner kits do not include a PA-8. Catalog numbers PA-1 through PA-8 are all full length cars. Varney lists no catalog numbers for the Junior Streamliner car, only their description of them after the full length car listings -- nor did Varney offer any color selection of these cars in the Junior car listing, unless one just assumes that the color selection for the regular, full-essentials kits applies. While we may assume that the Junior Streamliner cars may be the same length, unless there are documented examples of these cars available to measure, some (or all?) could be somewhat shorter. This is where your shorter B&O Obs may come in -- although the odds are probably that they're the same length (or should be). The Streamliner Cars (not Junior Streamliner Cars) are listed at $2.75 each -- and include trucks, couplers, undergear, sand paper, cement, paint and brush. These kits include: PA-1 Baggage-Express, Length - 72' PA-2 Baggage-Mail, L - 69' PA-3 Combination Baggage-Coach, L - 69' PA-4 Coach, L - 69' PA-5 Diner, L - 80' PA-6 Pullman - 18 Rommette, L 77' PA-7 Pullman - Bedroom-Compartment-Drawing RM, L - 81' PA-8 Observation, L -75' The Junior Streamliner Cars are listed as being priced at $1.90 each -- and -- complete set at $14.50 These are not the cars that Spanagel states as PA-1 through PA-8, at $2.75 each. While he has them as Junior Streamliners, they can't be if they're priced at $2.75 each. Actually, the PA-1 through PA-8 cars are not even offered as a set; it's only the Junior cars that are. These (Junior) kits have been pared down to the bare essentials; roof, floor, ends, sides, trucks and couplers -- but no undergear, sand paper, cement, paint or brush. No mention of length by Varney in the catalog, of any of these Junior cars. Or, again, is it to just be assumed they're the same length as the "regular" Streamliner cars? In measuring both of your cars in your attachment, I'm finding that your "B& O" (Royal Blue) obs is just about 88% of the length of your NYC obs above it -- or about 9.9" (check that out for me if you would). Now, while it's true that the lengths for the Junior Streamliner kits are not given, not even by Varney in the catalog, Varney does state that this complete (Junior) eight car train (less engine) is an actual 7' long. That's 84", exactly. I don't know whether he used this 7' as an approximation though. In adding up all eight cars of the "regular" Streamliner Car kits (PA-1 through PA-8), they come out to be 7' 4 5/8" and are noticed to be longer than the 7' that Varney states for an 8 car set of the Junior Streamliner Cars. This gives room for some or all Junior cars possibly being shorter than the "regular" PA-1 -- PA-8 Streamliner Cars that extend another 4 5/8" when assembled in an 8 car set. So until the lengths of the Junior Streamliner Cars can actually be confirmed as being the same length as the PA-1 -- PA-8 full essentials included car kits, anything's possible. Barring this possibility that any Junior Streamliner Cars would be any shorter than the regular PA-1 through PA-8 cars (like your 75' NYC Obs), then maybe someone kitbashed it shorter for some unknown reason, as there is no other Varney catalog listing it could be. Perhaps, as an example, they were running it with American Beauty B&O streamlined cars which were only offered as shorties (or maybe the prototype B&O never had full length 80' cars, which might explain A/B's offering only shorter versions of this railroad); another mystery. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18513	From: Larry	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments]

Very, very nice collection Jim. Now I'm curious about the other 25% that you don't have pictured which must be the extremely rare, exclusive and most valuable part of the collection since you don't want to be posting it on the internet...  uh, where did you day you live, again? =^U^= Larry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com All, Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976. Though other might like to see. Enjoy Jim H Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 9 of 9 Photo(s) IMG_7783_2.JPG IMG_7785_2.JPG IMG_7787_2.JPG IMG_7793_2.JPG IMG_7794_2.JPG IMG_7795_2.JPG IMG_7796_2.JPG IMG_7798_2.JPG IMG_7799_2.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18514	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: 75% of collection

Hi Larry,            I took pictures that were the  the easiest to take. Some of the rarest engines I have are shown on the pictures. In the large picture of steam engines you will find a Penn Line Crusader, just about every Varney steam engine including Pre War, Super and Economy if they made them including a Yellowstone , A 1938 Conover 2-10-2, Winton Berkshire and Allegheny, a Varney electric with a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement like the only PA R-1 This original body is the hardest Varney piece to find and looks like a shortened GG-1 , 2 Schrader Engines , George Stock engines and some a lot of people have never even heard of.. I could add many more old and rare engines that are in the pictures I sent but yes there are some that I didn't take pictures of only because to hard to do space wise with layout in middle.      I live in Shenandoah , eastern  PA. As for the collection each piece has special unseen markings if stolen  I have to keep a special list for insurance from fire. Two doors, one into the outer room and one at the train room are protected but I won't mention how.  The train room protected by cement walls all around except for the train room door. There are many devices around my house.  Cutting the power will not affect things as security lights will come on. Pity someone who would try to get in . The castle law  will take effect.                                          Jim H On 3/2/2012 3:40 PM, Larry wrote:   Very, very nice collection Jim. Now I'm curious about the other 25% that you don't have pictured which must be the extremely rare, exclusive and most valuable part of the collection since you don't want to be posting it on the internet...  uh, where did you day you live, again? =^U^= Larry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com All, Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976. Though other might like to see. Enjoy Jim H Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 9 of 9 Photo(s) IMG_7783_2.JPG IMG_7785_2.JPG IMG_7787_2.JPG IMG_7793_2.JPG IMG_7794_2.JPG IMG_7795_2.JPG IMG_7796_2.JPG IMG_7798_2.JPG IMG_7799_2.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18515	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Found a difference

Hi Ray,        Thanks for your Varney knowledge and input. Always very helpful and I thank you for that.                                       Jim H On 3/2/2012 3:02 PM, erieberk@... wrote:   Jim, Good to see more pics from you. Yeah, I sure do see that difference in length. Wish I could tell you exactly why, but I can't give you anything definitive. I can tell you without a doubt, that this "Royal Blue" colored Obs is definitely not one of the shorty cars like the green & yellow PA-88 streamliner obs you have in mind, as for one thing the window configuration is entirely different (and the PA-88 shorty style is too short to be your car). While no length is given for the PA-88 green & yellow shorty streamliner obs, the matching PA-33 shorty streamliner Combine and the similar PA-44 shorty streamliner Day Coach are both a scale 60' long (that's only 9") and the Obs doesn't look any longer than these in the catalog photo. Your similar NYC PA-8 observation is cataloged as being a scale 75' long. This would be about 11 1/4" in actual length, as a scale 80' would be 12" long. Note -- that Junior Streamliner kits do not include a PA-8. Catalog numbers PA-1 through PA-8 are all full length cars. Varney lists no catalog numbers for the Junior Streamliner car, only their description of them after the full length car listings -- nor did Varney offer any color selection of these cars in the Junior car listing, unless one just assumes that the color selection for the regular, full-essentials kits applies. While we may assume that the Junior Streamliner cars may be the same length, unless there are documented examples of these cars available to measure, some (or all?) could be somewhat shorter. This is where your shorter B&O Obs may come in -- although the odds are probably that they're the same length (or should be). The Streamliner Cars (not Junior Streamliner Cars) are listed at $2.75 each -- and include trucks, couplers, undergear, sand paper, cement, paint and brush. These kits include: PA-1 Baggage-Express, Length - 72' PA-2 Baggage-Mail, L - 69' PA-3 Combination Baggage-Coach, L - 69' PA-4 Coach, L - 69' PA-5 Diner, L - 80' PA-6 Pullman - 18 Rommette, L 77' PA-7 Pullman - Bedroom-Compartment-Drawing RM, L - 81' PA-8 Observation, L -75' The Junior Streamliner Cars are listed as being priced at $1.90 each -- and -- complete set at $14.50 These are not the cars that Spanagel states as PA-1 through PA-8, at $2.75 each. While he has them as Junior Streamliners, they can't be if they're priced at $2.75 each. Actually, the PA-1 through PA-8 cars are not even offered as a set; it's only the Junior cars that are. These (Junior) kits have been pared down to the bare essentials; roof, floor, ends, sides, trucks and couplers -- but no undergear, sand paper, cement, paint or brush. No mention of length by Varney in the catalog, of any of these Junior cars. Or, again, is it to just be assumed they're the same length as the "regular" Streamliner cars? In measuring both of your cars in your attachment, I'm finding that your "B& O" (Royal Blue) obs is just about 88% of the length of your NYC obs above it -- or about 9.9" (check that out for me if you would). Now, while it's true that the lengths for the Junior Streamliner kits are not given, not even by Varney in the catalog, Varney does state that this complete (Junior) eight car train (less engine) is an actual 7' long. That's 84", exactly. I don't know whether he used this 7' as an approximation though. In adding up all eight cars of the "regular" Streamliner Car kits (PA-1 through PA-8), they come out to be 7' 4 5/8" and are noticed to be longer than the 7' that Varney states for an 8 car set of the Junior Streamliner Cars. This gives room for some or all Junior cars possibly being shorter than the "regular" PA-1 -- PA-8 Streamliner Cars that extend another 4 5/8" when assembled in an 8 car set. So until the lengths of the Junior Streamliner Cars can actually be confirmed as being the same length as the PA-1 -- PA-8 full essentials included car kits, anything's possible. Barring this possibility that any Junior Streamliner Cars would be any shorter than the regular PA-1 through PA-8 cars (like your 75' NYC Obs), then maybe someone kitbashed it shorter for some unknown reason, as there is no other Varney catalog listing it could be. Perhaps, as an example, they were running it with American Beauty B&O streamlined cars which were only offered as shorties (or maybe the prototype B&O never had full length 80' cars, which might explain A/B's offering only shorter versions of this railroad); another mystery. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18516	From: John H	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Larry, > > I took pictures that were the the easiest to take. Some of > the rarest engines I have are shown on the pictures. In the large > picture of steam engines you will find a Penn Line Crusader, just about > every Varney steam engine including Pre War, Super and Economy if they > made them including a Yellowstone , A 1938 Conover 2-10-2, Winton > Berkshire and Allegheny, a Varney electric with a 4-8-4 wheel > arrangement like the only PA R-1 This original body is the hardest > Varney piece to find and looks like a shortened GG-1 , 2 Schrader > Engines , George Stock engines and some a lot of people have never even > heard of.. I could add many more old and rare engines that are in the > pictures I sent but yes there are some that I didn't take pictures of > only because to hard to do space wise with layout in middle. > > I live in Shenandoah , eastern PA. As for the collection each > piece has special unseen markings if stolen I have to keep a special > list for insurance from fire. Two doors, one into the outer room and one > at the train room are protected but I won't mention how. The train room > protected by cement walls all around except for the train room door. > There are many devices around my house. Cutting the power will not > affect things as security lights will come on. Pity someone who would > try to get in . The castle law will take effect. > > Jim H > As well it should! Fantastic collection. Thnk you for sharing your collection and all you do with it. And thank you for HAVING the collection! John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18517	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection

Jim, Can you make some suggestions on ways of doing this??? thanks, Mike Bauers On Mar 2, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: As for the collection each piece has special unseen markings if stolen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18518	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection

Jim: I really enjoyed your photographs.  Lots of stuff I've never heard of, some I drooled over in magazine ads when I was a kid and broke, etc.   A few I have, but very few.  Ever since I came to this List, then followed some of your efforts, I've thought it is a really great thing you've done in collecting a lot of things with expertise, detailed descriptions and good will. The latter has made it so nice. Thanks, (again !!!) for sharing, Dennis At 01:23 PM 3/2/2012, you wrote:       Hi Larry,            I took pictures that were the  the easiest to take. Some of the rarest engines I have are shown on the pictures. In the large picture of steam engines you will find a Penn Line Crusader, just about every Varney steam engine including Pre War, Super and Economy if they made them including a Yellowstone , A 1938 Conover 2-10-2, Winton Berkshire and Allegheny, a Varney electric with a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement like the only PA R-1 This original body is the hardest Varney piece to find and looks like a shortened GG-1 , 2 Schrader Engines , George Stock engines and some a lot of people have never even heard of.. I could add many more old and rare engines that are in the pictures I sent but yes there are some that I didn't take pictures of only because to hard to do space wise with layout in middle.      I live in Shenandoah , eastern  PA. As for the collection each piece has special unseen markings if stolen  I have to keep a special list for insurance from fire. Two doors, one into the outer room and one at the train room are protected but I won't mention how.  The train room protected by cement walls all around except for the train room door. There are many devices around my house.  Cutting the power will not affect things as security lights will come on. Pity someone who would try to get in . The castle law  will take effect.                                          Jim H On 3/2/2012 3:40 PM, Larry wrote:   Very, very nice collection Jim. Now I'm curious about the other 25% that you don't have pictured which must be the extremely rare, exclusive and most valuable part of the collection since you don't want to be posting it on the internet... uh, where did you day you live, again? =^U^= Larry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com                     All,          Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976.   Though other might like to see.                                                         Enjoy                                                          Jim H Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 9 of 9 Photo(s) IMG_7783_2.JPG IMG_7785_2.JPG IMG_7787_2.JPG IMG_7793_2.JPG IMG_7794_2.JPG IMG_7795_2.JPG IMG_7796_2.JPG IMG_7798_2.JPG IMG_7799_2.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18519	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: item to sell

I am thinning out my collection and have the following to dispose of: PFM ATSF 1950-class 2-8-0, brass, repowered with Sagami 2032 motor with flywheel, and equipped with DCC decoder.  It has been packed away for the last ten years—I test ran it last night and it runs well.  I used to use it in operating sessions at my old group.    Asking $200, will consider offers   Off List: Glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18520	From: Mary Long	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection

If I may , Mr. Jim you and your collection are a treasure , I'm honored you share photos of it with us . Thank you Sir , Henry H. --- On Fri, 3/2/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] 75% of collection To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 11:23 PM         Hi Larry,            I took pictures that were the  the easiest to take. Some of the rarest engines I have are shown on the pictures. In the large picture of steam engines you will find a Penn Line Crusader, just about every Varney steam engine including Pre War, Super and Economy if they made them including a Yellowstone , A 1938 Conover 2-10-2, Winton Berkshire and Allegheny, a Varney electric with a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement like the only PA R-1 This original body is the hardest Varney piece to find and looks like a shortened GG-1 , 2 Schrader Engines , George Stock engines and some a lot of people have never even heard of.. I could add many more old and rare engines that are in the pictures I sent but yes there are some that I didn't take pictures of only because to hard to do space wise with layout in middle.      I live in Shenandoah , eastern  PA. As for the collection each piece has special unseen markings if stolen  I have to keep a special list for insurance from fire. Two doors, one into the outer room and one at the train room are protected but I won't mention how.  The train room protected by cement walls all around except for the train room door. There are many devices around my house.  Cutting the power will not affect things as security lights will come on. Pity someone who would try to get in . The castle law  will take effect.                                          Jim H On 3/2/2012 3:40 PM, Larry wrote:   Very, very nice collection Jim. Now I'm curious about the other 25% that you don't have pictured which must be the extremely rare, exclusive and most valuable part of the collection since you don't want to be posting it on the internet...  uh, where did you day you live, again? =^U^= Larry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com All, Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976. Though other might like to see. Enjoy Jim H Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 9 of 9 Photo(s) IMG_7783_2.JPG IMG_7785_2.JPG IMG_7787_2.JPG IMG_7793_2.JPG IMG_7794_2.JPG IMG_7795_2.JPG IMG_7796_2.JPG IMG_7798_2.JPG IMG_7799_2.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18521	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Three more pieces

Got what I believe to be a Silver Streak caboose...improperly painted and lettered as a 1600 series Northern Pacific, but nice anyway. An Ulrich metal bottom dump gon, and a Mantua tank car. Price was right, could't complain. One has deVore couplers even! Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18522	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments]

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 13:41:09 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments]   -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com All, Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976. Though other might like to see. Enjoy Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18523	From: Larry	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: 75% of collection

Sounds like you've made good secure arrangements. Woe be it anyone even thinks of trying. Good man, Jim.  From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 75% of collection       Hi Larry,            I took pictures that were the  the easiest to take. Some of the rarest engines I have are shown on the pictures. In the large picture of steam engines you will find a Penn Line Crusader, just about every Varney steam engine including Pre War, Super and Economy if they made them including a Yellowstone , A 1938 Conover 2-10-2, Winton Berkshire and Allegheny, a Varney electric with a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement like the only PA R-1 This original body is the hardest Varney piece to find and looks like a shortened GG-1 , 2 Schrader Engines , George Stock engines and some a lot of people have never even heard of.. I could add many more old and rare engines that are in the pictures I sent but yes there are some that I didn't take pictures of only because to hard to do space wise with layout in middle.      I live in Shenandoah , eastern  PA. As for the collection each piece has special unseen markings if stolen  I have to keep a special list for insurance from fire. Two doors, one into the outer room and one at the train room are protected but I won't mention how.  The train room protected by cement walls all around except for the train room door. There are many devices around my house.  Cutting the power will not affect things as security lights will come on. Pity someone who would try to get in . The castle law  will take effect.                                          Jim H On 3/2/2012 3:40 PM, Larry wrote:   Very, very nice collection Jim. Now I'm curious about the other 25% that you don't have pictured which must be the extremely rare, exclusive and most valuable part of the collection since you don't want to be posting it on the internet...  uh, where did you day you live, again? =^U^= Larry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: 75% of collection [9 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 75% of collection Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:10:44 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com All, Jay mentioned he like the partial wall of passenger consist thought other might like to see more. Jay has visited and seen the collection up close and personal that covers produced models from 1936-1976. Though other might like to see. Enjoy Jim H Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 9 of 9 Photo(s) IMG_7783_2.JPG IMG_7785_2.JPG IMG_7787_2.JPG IMG_7793_2.JPG IMG_7794_2.JPG IMG_7795_2.JPG IMG_7796_2.JPG IMG_7798_2.JPG IMG_7799_2.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18524	From: takefive247	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Mantua catalog

Hi Jim, My name is Bill I collect Mantua. I am curious about the 1937 Mantua catalog you have on HOseaker site. I don't think it could be a 37. If it is would you tell me how you came to that conclusion and do you know if it would be their first catalog. I have a 38 where the last page, page 32 is different and the back cover says No. 38 Second Edition. Thanks Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18525	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Later AF Diesel

Attachments : IMG_7803.JPG IMG_7800.JPG About 10 days ago I won a American Flyer F-3 that was just about the end of the first AF HO run. As you can see it is stamp dated Jun 1961. At this point AF was sending their HO F units to the same factory / company as Mark had there engines made in China. You can see the frame, trucks and drive system are the same as Marx. One of the main differences in the body is the ladders. Marx F-3's had the open ladders with 2 steps and AF had 3 steps that were closed. I have heard the Marx ran better then the American Flyer. Hard to understand as the Marx and AF drives look similar unless each used different motors. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18526	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]

They each used three pole motors and they were almost impossible to get to run well for any length of time. Don Staton in VA. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 3/3/2012 2:39 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   About 10 days ago I won a American Flyer F-3 that was just about the end of the first AF HO run. As you can see it is stamp dated Jun 1961. At this point AF was sending their HO F units to the same factory / company as Mark had there engines made in China. You can see the frame, trucks and drive system are the same as Marx. One of the main differences in the body is the ladders. Marx F-3's had the open ladders with 2 steps and AF had 3 steps that were closed. I have heard the Marx ran better then the American Flyer. Hard to understand as the Marx and AF drives look similar unless each used different motors. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18527	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Mantua 1937 first Edition

Attachments : IMG_7807.JPG IMG_7806.JPG Hi Bill ( takefive247) I assume the two pictures I am sending are the Mantua catalog you are asking about. As you can plainly see on the back of the catalog it states " Catalouge Price 25 cents No.38 First Edition Copyrighted 1937. The second picture is the cover of the book so we are talking the same book. Hope this helps answer your question. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18528	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel

The last of the Gilbert diesels had a problem in that the gears on the axles would crack and make the engines barely usable if usable at all. Many Gilbert Pike Master F units are found with Marx trucks having most likely been swapped for the bad Gilbert ones. If you look closely at both the shells, you may find the Gilbert shell is actually different, to the Marx shell,  in very small ways. I was shown this fact, many years ago, by a highly respected Gilbert HO collector. So they really are not the same as the Marx shells. Dom From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 3, 2012 2:50:15 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Later AF Diesel   They each used three pole motors and they were almost impossible to get to run well for any length of time. Don Staton in VA. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 3/3/2012 2:39 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   About 10 days ago I won a American Flyer F-3 that was just about the end of the first AF HO run. As you can see it is stamp dated Jun 1961. At this point AF was sending their HO F units to the same factory / company as Mark had there engines made in China. You can see the frame, trucks and drive system are the same as Marx. One of the main differences in the body is the ladders. Marx F-3's had the open ladders with 2 steps and AF had 3 steps that were closed. I have heard the Marx ran better then the American Flyer. Hard to understand as the Marx and AF drives look similar unless each used different motors. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18529	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]

Jim, I haven't owned any of the Marx, but I do know that the plastic axle gears on the Flyer had a tendency to split.  I have found quite a few with that condition.  All in all though, they are not what you would call "great runners". Daryl O. On 3/3/2012 2:39 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   About 10 days ago I won a American Flyer F-3 that was just about the end of the first AF HO run. As you can see it is stamp dated Jun 1961. At this point AF was sending their HO F units to the same factory / company as Mark had there engines made in China. You can see the frame, trucks and drive system are the same as Marx. One of the main differences in the body is the ladders. Marx F-3's had the open ladders with 2 steps and AF had 3 steps that were closed. I have heard the Marx ran better then the American Flyer. Hard to understand as the Marx and AF drives look similar unless each used different motors. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18530	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Later SAF

Don Staton, I haven't looked real close at this AF Diesel but I can tell you this has a five pole motor. I can't be sure it came originally but it lines up and the gears mesh. I'll have to read the American Flyer book to check out things. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18531	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Later SAF

It was possible to replace the motors with one of about the same size.  I know that because I did check to see id it was possible but I never actually did one because I did not collect either Flyer or Marx then.  Varney looked and ran so much better. Don Staton in VA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 3/3/2012 4:56 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   Don Staton, I haven't looked real close at this AF Diesel but I can tell you this has a five pole motor. I can't be sure it came originally but it lines up and the gears mesh. I'll have to read the American Flyer book to check out things. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18532	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: comparing Gilbert/AF vs. Marx

Attachments : IMG_7810.JPG IMG_7809.JPG Dom St. John, I have sent pictures of the sides and bottom of the drives of an early Gilbert, a Marx F-3 and the one I just got. First when you mention the last run are you talking the Pike Master series. As for differences in the bodies I hope you would list them. I have been looking over these three and the only difference I found is on the Marx (middle) body. The middle of the middle screen has a inverted V shape that is not as deep as the rest of the screen. The later AF came with no light. I want to scream since this statement appears in the Gilbert / AF book " Unlike the Marx engines the type 4 (later) Gilbert ( AF) engines ran very poorly". Type 1 is the early Gilbert engine. The early Gilbert has metal gear boxes with metal covers that say Gilbert. The Marx and later AF engines have the Marx drives except the Marx engine has a three pole motor. The early and Late Gilbert/ American Flyer have 5 poles. I had originally taken info out of a Gilbert & American Flyer Book where I find what motor was used.. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18533	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: comparing Gilbert/AF vs. Marx [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim, I would have to do the same and really look at the shells for the differences. I know it's not hard to see the slight differences in the trucks. The Marx trucks always seemed to have those white nylon type gears. Gilbert always had the black plastic gears. Those easily cracked. It's been some years since I was shown, but, I was able to see the difference in the truck molds and body molds between Marx and Gilbert. Dom From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 3, 2012 6:21:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] comparing Gilbert/AF vs. Marx [2 Attachments]   Dom St. John, I have sent pictures of the sides and bottom of the drives of an early Gilbert, a Marx F-3 and the one I just got. First when you mention the last run are you talking the Pike Master series. As for differences in the bodies I hope you would list them. I have been looking over these three and the only difference I found is on the Marx (middle) body. The middle of the middle screen has a inverted V shape that is not as deep as the rest of the screen. The later AF came with no light. I want to scream since this statement appears in the Gilbert / AF book " Unlike the Marx engines the type 4 (later) Gilbert ( AF) engines ran very poorly". Type 1 is the early Gilbert engine. The early Gilbert has metal gear boxes with metal covers that say Gilbert. The Marx and later AF engines have the Marx drives except the Marx engine has a three pole motor. The early and Late Gilbert/ American Flyer have 5 poles. I had originally taken info out of a Gilbert & American Flyer Book where I find what motor was used.. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18534	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]

P Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 14:39:58 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]   About 10 days ago I won a American Flyer F-3 that was just about the end of the first AF HO run. As you can see it is stamp dated Jun 1961. At this point AF was sending their HO F units to the same factory / company as Mark had there engines made in China. You can see the frame, trucks and drive system are the same as Marx. One of the main differences in the body is the ladders. Marx F-3's had the open ladders with 2 steps and AF had 3 steps that were closed. I have heard the Marx ran better then the American Flyer. Hard to understand as the Marx and AF drives look similar unless each used different motors. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18535	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Later AF Diesel

Chris     Sorry no message came through except a P.                       Jim H On 3/4/2012 5:56 AM, chrisb_acw_rr@... wrote:   P Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 14:39:58 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Later AF Diesel [2 Attachments]   About 10 days ago I won a American Flyer F-3 that was just about the end of the first AF HO run. As you can see it is stamp dated Jun 1961. At this point AF was sending their HO F units to the same factory / company as Mark had there engines made in China. You can see the frame, trucks and drive system are the same as Marx. One of the main differences in the body is the ladders. Marx F-3's had the open ladders with 2 steps and AF had 3 steps that were closed. I have heard the Marx ran better then the American Flyer. Hard to understand as the Marx and AF drives look similar unless each used different motors. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18536	From: Nelson	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Later SAF

Jim, I'm sure that motor's original, because it's identical to the 5 pole motor they used in their later 0-6-0's and Hudsons from that era. It's actually a powerful open frame, much more so than the earlier motors with round magnets that had 3 pole skewed armatures, which may have been used in their earlier F units. I have a Hudson from 1960 with that motor, and even with traction tires I can't stall it. It's a shame those F3's were so poorly made at the end. I've seen some of them go for ridiculous prices, and I don't get it. That's not the Gilbert I want to remember. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Don Staton, > > > I haven't looked real close at this AF Diesel but I can tell > you this has a five pole motor. I can't be sure it came originally but > it lines up and the gears mesh. I'll have to read the American Flyer > book to check out things. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18537	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

boxes and brake gear. I have a newer version that can be built as a double decker or a triple decker and yes, it has the cast uprights, but I feel like the fabricated ones from stripwood look a lot better.Regards, I would like to build some 1970s era open auto racks, but I lack good plans and data. I think between the available flat cars now, and styrene I can probably make what I want. I have a brass one I could probably copy in plastic, but I am looking for some variety. Whittling isn't on my skill list unfortunately, but virtually any stripwood shape is available in styrene. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18538	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

On this subject... tonight I was rummaging through my vintage stuff and came across a red box. I must have picked this up at the NMRA estate sale table at a show a few years ago. It's an all wood auto rack it... by ConCor! I don't know how long it has been since ConCor made a wood kit, but... I need to compare the plans to my QC kit and see if it's the same prototype. If it's different at least I have one more prototype plan to work from. This kit is all wood, no cast uprights. I should take some pictures of the kit contents... Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18539	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

> Ps. At about the same time as Quality Craft, Con-Cor also introduced craftsman type kits for Tri-level and Bi-level auto rack cars as well, but their kit modeled the somewhat simpler Dana Corp. open autorack and had corrugated metal for each upper floor. In the 1980's Red Ball's Merle Rice (Hi Merle!) produced kits for the Dana Tri-level and bi-level racks as part of his Cannonball injection molded line which were to be assembled onto a standard Atheran flat, in the same way as the prototype racks were assembled on TTX cars. I didn't read all the posts before I made mine... yeah, my ConCor kit has the corrugated metal decks. I had a couple of the Cannonball Dana rack kits back in the 80s. It basically was one styrene mold of two sections of a trilevel side structure, and you got 8 of them and two pieces of plastic to make the decks. No instructions. The Dana rack is really too old for my era, but if not I probably could make something of that kit today, but it's really just the one piece - all the rest of the detail you gotta do yourself. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18540	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

> Hi Jay,What a wonderful story. I love it. I think that anyone who can build Silver Streak cars can easily build a Quality Craft Tri-level Auto Rack. I do remember that the instructions were very clear about the assembly, so it if you followed them, you were going to be successful. My problem with every wood kit I ever built is that, well it ends up looking like wood. I've seen guys who can seal and prep even the smallest bits of spaghetti to where it looks like steel when painted, but I've never had much success with it. I tried some other QC kits in the 70s, and did the whole bit with Scalecoat sanding sealer. I was able to get the larger smooth pieces fairly well sealed but not the spaghetti or angle shapes. The tiny little things don't really like to be sanded and tend to splinter and break. The whole time I'm thinking, ya know I could be doing this with plastic.... Vintage stuff is cool but at the same time... well, it took me 3 hours last night just to clean up the castings for my Roundhouse ore car. I love my 63 Ford Galaxie but... I'm going to put an aftermarket front disc brake setup on it. It's too big of a beast to not be able to stop it, and the thing has the worst brakes of any car I've owned even with the booster... one cylinder and it darts left or right when you touch the pedal. And that's the way they were, it's not broken. That's why my vintage train has Kadees on it and not Mantuas. Nostalgic but... they are about the most complicated coupler setup I've ever seen just to mount them. And they look silly. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18541	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier

> Well, it ain't 20 years but the Mantua/MDC GB&W 0-6-0 I stared close to three years ago ahsn't been touched in over two years. Back around 1977 I bought a Tyco Pacific kit and a Cary USRA boiler for it. Then later I got the Mellor gearbox kit to allow putting a real motor in it. I think I put the mechanism together and then it sat, and sat, and sat, and sat. I never really had a vision of what I wanted it to be. I ebayed it 7-8 years ago, still had air molecules from my college apartment in the box. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18542	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

> I blew up and sharpened the photo. The loco under the bridge looks like an Athearn GP30, which would fit the time frame. Must have some good sharpening software. Can you post your sharpened clip? What's weird is that I can't identify very many of the freight cars specifically, which probably means there are some Hobbyline, Varney, etc stuff I'm less familiar with than the typical Athearn and MDC stuff of the era and before. One thing I remember specifically is a very noisy EMD switcher one of the guys was switching the yard with. I remember it grinding loudly as it attempted to pull a cut of cars it couldn't really handle. I don't know if it was a Varney, or Revell or what but I suspect it was the Revell with the helical gears. I can't spot it in the photo though. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18543	From: pjentingh	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Car weighting

A lot of the older cars we collect, as well as some newer ones, (I admit to occasionally picking up a plastic model ie. Accurail, with a neat road name), Just don't weigh enough to track well. I have often glued thin sheet lead underneath, if I could not get inside the car. After I ran out of my stock, I started to look around on line. I found a site, (Lead Weight Vault) who sold me 5 lbs. of sheet lead about .100 thick for $5.00 + shipping. I bought this on ebay. He also has a site on line. You have to ask for sheet lead instead of fishing sinkers. It cuts easy with a tin snips. I don't have to remind anyone to wash their hands after handling it. I glue it in place with Elmers carpenter glue. It has never come loose. Have fun. Philip Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18544	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

After I ran out of my stock, I started to look around on line. I found a site, (Lead Weight Vault) who sold me 5 lbs. of sheet lead about .100 thick for $5.00 + shipping. I bought this on ebay. He also has a site on line. You have to ask for sheet lead instead of fishing sinkers. It cuts easy with a tin snips. I don't have to remind anyone to wash their hands after handling it. I glue it in place with Elmers carpenter glue. It has never come loose. Have fun. Philip Entingh > I used to have a customer in the printing business who would give me type slugs and shims which made great car weights, but those were zinc alloy and rather inflexible. A few years ago I started looking for some sheet lead. Everybody said lead flashing was available from any roofer supply. Not in Cincinnati - I guess it's a west coast thing. I went into one lumber outfit and I asked if they had lead flashing and the kid said "you mean metal?" and I said yes, lead is a metal. He handed me some aluminum roof vents. Sigh. I finally went on line to McMaster-Carr and bought what amounted to a 50 lb roll of lead sheet. I forget the exact dimensions but it was about $65 shipped to my door in a roll. I haven't used even half of it in 6 years. It is easy to cut with scissors, fold, form, and I can stack it up and glue it with thick super glue. It pretty much beats everything else except for those tight spots where you need a conforming low-temp just to get something in there and then you have to use the very pricey Cerrobend. But I have a few slugs of Cerro I bought back in 03 or 04 and I've never even touched them. I always wash my hands after handling it, and I don't grind it up and put it in my drinks, so I doubt if I'll end up going berserk like various Roman emperors. It's pretty much the best stuff and a lot easier to manipulate than fishing weights or bird/buck shot. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18545	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

On 3/5/2012 5:03 PM, pjentingh wrote: > A lot of the older cars we collect, as well as some newer ones, (I admit to occasionally picking up a plastic model ie. Accurail, with a neat road name), Just don't weigh enough to track well. I have often glued thin sheet lead underneath, if I could not get inside the car. After I ran out of my stock, I started to look around on line. I found a site, (Lead Weight Vault) who sold me 5 lbs. of sheet lead about .100 thick for $5.00 + shipping. I bought this on ebay. He also has a site on line. You have to ask for sheet lead instead of fishing sinkers. It cuts easy with a tin snips. I don't have to remind anyone to wash their hands after handling it. I glue it in place with Elmers carpenter glue. It has never come loose. Have fun. Philip Entingh > Funny you should mention it. I just picked up a couple of pounds of sheet lead flashing at Varney & Smith, the local lumber yard. They stock 8 inch wide and 12 inch wide rolls of the stuff. They cut me off 6 feet of the 8 inch wide lead, and it was like $2.43 a pound. That ought to last me quite a few years. By the way. I always use silicone bathtub caulk to secure weights inside cars. If the lead feels slick and greasy (the usual case) I pickle the lead weight in ordinary supermarket vinegar. The mild acid etches the surface of the lead and gives it some tooth for the adhesive to grab onto. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18546	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

Home Depot and Lowes botth sell lead flashing in rolls. Dick W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18547	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

> > Home Depot and Lowes botth sell lead flashing in rolls. Not here they don't. Believe me, I've asked. They only sell it in places where it's commonly used in construction and for whatever reason around here they just don't use it. The closest I came was some kind of cone shaped, formed vent thing which started out as sheet lead but would have been pretty expensive to chop up to make car weights. No flashing by the roll. I don't know why or what the difference is but apparently in some parts of the country like CA and the southwest, lead flashing is commonly used in roofing. Not here in Cincinnati. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18548	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

On 3/6/2012 11:56 AM, greendoddz wrote: >> >> Home Depot and Lowes botth sell lead flashing in rolls. > > Not here they don't. Believe me, I've asked. They only sell it in places where it's commonly used in construction and for whatever reason around here they just don't use it. The closest I came was some kind of cone shaped, formed vent thing which started out as sheet lead but would have been pretty expensive to chop up to make car weights. No flashing by the roll. I don't know why or what the difference is but apparently in some parts of the country like CA and the southwest, lead flashing is commonly used in roofing. Not here in Cincinnati. > > Andy > > Home Depot up here does not carry lead flashing. They used to. I think the anti-lead activists are trying to drive it off the market. Varney & Smith, which does carry it, is a real lumber yard, the kind that contractors buy from. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18549	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

I'm in New England and flashing is available here...in fact I bought a roll of it a few years ago, forgot I had it and bought another one...my estate will have to get rid of them as I'll never use it all. Dick W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18550	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Red Ball wrapper

Something that has always caught my eye, but I've never seen one built-up, nor in color, is the Red Ball 'Itstinks and Howe' chemical tank car. If anyone would like to kit-bash one, there is a wrapper that looks to be mint on eBay right now. It's with five decal sets of Champ decals. I'm not chasing this since I just won more than one of these a few minutes ago It's presently at 99-cents and if anyone would like to give it and the decals a good home, even possibly build with it, here is the auction number 190649442962 I suggest that anyone that wins it scans and works with a printed copy of the nearly sainted tank wrapper. Just imagine what a tank train of those cars would look like !!! from the eBay 'ad', 'Single Dome Tank Car ~ Overlay ~ "Itstinks & Howe" "Woods Pussy Brand" "CHEMICALS 'N STUFF" ' Now I need some tank cars to rebuild with these -right- wrappers. Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18551	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Car weighting

The home depot and roofing supply places I've comtacted about it in ca. and nev. say its illegal to use and sell,don't want people like fisherman/roofers dying from being near the stuff both of which live to a ripe old age,unless they fall off a boat or roof.Seems ironic they can produce/market lead from ca. but not sell it there.  1 way to get this lead flashing is from rubble of older buildings being torn down or having roof replaced,if you ask roofers they'll likely give you the old flashing. Alan From: greendoddz <greendoddz@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 8:56 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Car weighting   > > Home Depot and Lowes botth sell lead flashing in rolls. Not here they don't. Believe me, I've asked. They only sell it in places where it's commonly used in construction and for whatever reason around here they just don't use it. The closest I came was some kind of cone shaped, formed vent thing which started out as sheet lead but would have been pretty expensive to chop up to make car weights. No flashing by the roll. I don't know why or what the difference is but apparently in some parts of the country like CA and the southwest, lead flashing is commonly used in roofing. Not here in Cincinnati. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18552	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

Ever notice when you come across a built vintage piece of rolling stock somewhere, the odds are pretty strong that the trucks will be... in some way wacky? I suppose a major contributor to this is that so many kits came without trucks in the 1940s and 50s, and people would just use whatever they had or whatever the hobby shop had in stock. But most of the cars I've been seeking originally came with trucks - Athearn metal, MDC die cast, Ulrich die cast, etc. They all came with metal multi-piece sprung trucks of some sort. When opening up an unbuilt kit, generally if the trucks are still sealed in the baggie, envelope or those cool little snug-fitting cardboard boxes, they're *probably* the trucks that were supposed to come with the kit. But a lot of the built cars have a Bettendorf on one end and an arch-bar on the other end, or most commonly, two completely different brands/styles of Bettendorf. The all metal trucks were insulated on one side, and if they were not insulated from the car's frame, if you didn't keep both trucks oriented the same way you'd have a dead short when placed on the track. And often before the breaker blew, it would get hot enough to melt the insulation, thus destroying the wheel sets. So that probably happened enough to explain various truck swap-outs, or these vintage metal trucks with newer plastic wheels stuck in them and what not. But sometimes it's just nuts. I bought 14 cars - almost all of them Athearn metal box cars - from the same seller, all in the same shipment. From the condition of them and general look - they all had Kadees - they all appeared to be from the same original owner. Yet the trucks were all over the place. Out of the 14 cars, I really only needed to put four of them into service for my project, and I was screwing and unscrewing all over the place just to find four decent pairs of trucks. Some cars had one truck that looked decent and the other was corroded and white. Some had really stupid spacers, more than the .040" washer generally required just to keep the wheels from scraping the crossmembers on the Athearn cars (thus causing a short, and melting more axle insulation). I about fell on the floor though when I opened up an old MDC box I've had for years... forgot all about it. It's an SP outside-braced composite box car, from the old MDC diecast line. In decent shape, but.... somebody stuck some trucks on it that look like they might be off an AC Gilbert steam loco tender. Or something. And they have no wheelsets... LOL. Perhaps the wrong gauge? Anyway, since all of these cars originally would have come with a decent pair of sprung trucks, I have to wonder what happened to them, if they wore out, or guys got tired of worrying about orientation and shorts, or what. I've encountered a few with much newer delrin trucks, and even some with Lindberg trucks - remember those? All plastic (probably delrin) sprung trucks. Too stiff to really equalize, but twisty enough to get out of square and stay that way long enough to derail. I'm pulling those off and tossing them in an ebay box because there may be a market for them yet. So what's the wackiest trucks you've ever come across> Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18553	From: ablecynic	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

Andy, I have seen the same thing you have and I have a theory that says that someone took the good trucks off the "old cars" and then replaced them with whatever was at hand. I bought a couple of Central Valley cars that were built up at a train show (paid $2 each) that SHOULD have had CV sprung archbar trucks (they came with the kits) but instead had modern Athearn Delrin roller-bearing trucks. I have a set of cars that came from an estate that are all early-50s kits and they all have the original brass or sprung-die-cast trucks and they are beautiful. But your observations ring very true to these old ears. V/r Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > Ever notice when you come across a built vintage piece of rolling stock somewhere, the odds are pretty strong that the trucks will be... in some way wacky? I suppose a major contributor to this is that so many kits came without trucks in the 1940s and 50s, and people would just use whatever they had or whatever the hobby shop had in stock. But most of the cars I've been seeking originally came with trucks - Athearn metal, MDC die cast, Ulrich die cast, etc. They all came with metal multi-piece sprung trucks of some sort. > > When opening up an unbuilt kit, generally if the trucks are still sealed in the baggie, envelope or those cool little snug-fitting cardboard boxes, they're *probably* the trucks that were supposed to come with the kit. But a lot of the built cars have a Bettendorf on one end and an arch-bar on the other end, or most commonly, two completely different brands/styles of Bettendorf. The all metal trucks were insulated on one side, and if they were not insulated from the car's frame, if you didn't keep both trucks oriented the same way you'd have a dead short when placed on the track. And often before the breaker blew, it would get hot enough to melt the insulation, thus destroying the wheel sets. So that probably happened enough to explain various truck swap-outs, or these vintage metal trucks with newer plastic wheels stuck in them and what not. > > But sometimes it's just nuts. I bought 14 cars - almost all of them Athearn metal box cars - from the same seller, all in the same shipment. From the condition of them and general look - they all had Kadees - they all appeared to be from the same original owner. Yet the trucks were all over the place. Out of the 14 cars, I really only needed to put four of them into service for my project, and I was screwing and unscrewing all over the place just to find four decent pairs of trucks. Some cars had one truck that looked decent and the other was corroded and white. Some had really stupid spacers, more than the .040" washer generally required just to keep the wheels from scraping the crossmembers on the Athearn cars (thus causing a short, and melting more axle insulation). > > I about fell on the floor though when I opened up an old MDC box I've had for years... forgot all about it. It's an SP outside-braced composite box car, from the old MDC diecast line. In decent shape, but.... somebody stuck some trucks on it that look like they might be off an AC Gilbert steam loco tender. Or something. And they have no wheelsets... LOL. Perhaps the wrong gauge? > > Anyway, since all of these cars originally would have come with a decent pair of sprung trucks, I have to wonder what happened to them, if they wore out, or guys got tired of worrying about orientation and shorts, or what. I've encountered a few with much newer delrin trucks, and even some with Lindberg trucks - remember those? All plastic (probably delrin) sprung trucks. Too stiff to really equalize, but twisty enough to get out of square and stay that way long enough to derail. I'm pulling those off and tossing them in an ebay box because there may be a market for them yet. > > So what's the wackiest trucks you've ever come across> > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18554	From: Lawrence	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

Wacky? Wacky are the folks who come to the club with sterling models but have NO concept of what trucks to put under them. I see Dash 9s pulling 100 ton cars with fox, arch bar, friction and roller bearing, and sometimes arch bars and roller bearings on the same car. The precise solid or friction bearing or roller bearing to use is maybe a little daunting, but you would think the era would be a good clue on the basic type. I have been accused of nitpicking, but it looks like that nit kinda needs to be picked. I mean, wouldn't you cringe if an intermodal set showed up with an arch bar truck or a nicely done Ulrich with 100 ton roller bearings ... or is it just me? Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > Ever notice when you come across a built vintage piece of rolling stock somewhere, the odds are pretty strong that the trucks will be... in some way wacky? I suppose a major contributor to this is that so many kits came without trucks in the 1940s and 50s, and people would just use whatever they had or whatever the hobby shop had in stock. But most of the cars I've been seeking originally came with trucks - Athearn metal, MDC die cast, Ulrich die cast, etc. They all came with metal multi-piece sprung trucks of some sort. > > When opening up an unbuilt kit, generally if the trucks are still sealed in the baggie, envelope or those cool little snug-fitting cardboard boxes, they're *probably* the trucks that were supposed to come with the kit. But a lot of the built cars have a Bettendorf on one end and an arch-bar on the other end, or most commonly, two completely different brands/styles of Bettendorf. The all metal trucks were insulated on one side, and if they were not insulated from the car's frame, if you didn't keep both trucks oriented the same way you'd have a dead short when placed on the track. And often before the breaker blew, it would get hot enough to melt the insulation, thus destroying the wheel sets. So that probably happened enough to explain various truck swap-outs, or these vintage metal trucks with newer plastic wheels stuck in them and what not. > > But sometimes it's just nuts. I bought 14 cars - almost all of them Athearn metal box cars - from the same seller, all in the same shipment. From the condition of them and general look - they all had Kadees - they all appeared to be from the same original owner. Yet the trucks were all over the place. Out of the 14 cars, I really only needed to put four of them into service for my project, and I was screwing and unscrewing all over the place just to find four decent pairs of trucks. Some cars had one truck that looked decent and the other was corroded and white. Some had really stupid spacers, more than the .040" washer generally required just to keep the wheels from scraping the crossmembers on the Athearn cars (thus causing a short, and melting more axle insulation). > > I about fell on the floor though when I opened up an old MDC box I've had for years... forgot all about it. It's an SP outside-braced composite box car, from the old MDC diecast line. In decent shape, but.... somebody stuck some trucks on it that look like they might be off an AC Gilbert steam loco tender. Or something. And they have no wheelsets... LOL. Perhaps the wrong gauge? > > Anyway, since all of these cars originally would have come with a decent pair of sprung trucks, I have to wonder what happened to them, if they wore out, or guys got tired of worrying about orientation and shorts, or what. I've encountered a few with much newer delrin trucks, and even some with Lindberg trucks - remember those? All plastic (probably delrin) sprung trucks. Too stiff to really equalize, but twisty enough to get out of square and stay that way long enough to derail. I'm pulling those off and tossing them in an ebay box because there may be a market for them yet. > > So what's the wackiest trucks you've ever come across> > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18555	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

Some people have not learned about time period correctness.  Any kind of wheels and any kind of couplers will do for some folks.  I have seen it since I became involved in scale modeling in 1958. Don Staton in VA ------------------------------------------------------ On 3/8/2012 11:25 AM, Lawrence wrote:   Wacky? Wacky are the folks who come to the club with sterling models but have NO concept of what trucks to put under them. I see Dash 9s pulling 100 ton cars with fox, arch bar, friction and roller bearing, and sometimes arch bars and roller bearings on the same car. The precise solid or friction bearing or roller bearing to use is maybe a little daunting, but you would think the era would be a good clue on the basic type. I have been accused of nitpicking, but it looks like that nit kinda needs to be picked. I mean, wouldn't you cringe if an intermodal set showed up with an arch bar truck or a nicely done Ulrich with 100 ton roller bearings ... or is it just me? Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > Ever notice when you come across a built vintage piece of rolling stock somewhere, the odds are pretty strong that the trucks will be... in some way wacky? I suppose a major contributor to this is that so many kits came without trucks in the 1940s and 50s, and people would just use whatever they had or whatever the hobby shop had in stock. But most of the cars I've been seeking originally came with trucks - Athearn metal, MDC die cast, Ulrich die cast, etc. They all came with metal multi-piece sprung trucks of some sort. > > When opening up an unbuilt kit, generally if the trucks are still sealed in the baggie, envelope or those cool little snug-fitting cardboard boxes, they're *probably* the trucks that were supposed to come with the kit. But a lot of the built cars have a Bettendorf on one end and an arch-bar on the other end, or most commonly, two completely different brands/styles of Bettendorf. The all metal trucks were insulated on one side, and if they were not insulated from the car's frame, if you didn't keep both trucks oriented the same way you'd have a dead short when placed on the track. And often before the breaker blew, it would get hot enough to melt the insulation, thus destroying the wheel sets. So that probably happened enough to explain various truck swap-outs, or these vintage metal trucks with newer plastic wheels stuck in them and what not. > > But sometimes it's just nuts. I bought 14 cars - almost all of them Athearn metal box cars - from the same seller, all in the same shipment. From the condition of them and general look - they all had Kadees - they all appeared to be from the same original owner. Yet the trucks were all over the place. Out of the 14 cars, I really only needed to put four of them into service for my project, and I was screwing and unscrewing all over the place just to find four decent pairs of trucks. Some cars had one truck that looked decent and the other was corroded and white. Some had really stupid spacers, more than the .040" washer generally required just to keep the wheels from scraping the crossmembers on the Athearn cars (thus causing a short, and melting more axle insulation). > > I about fell on the floor though when I opened up an old MDC box I've had for years... forgot all about it. It's an SP outside-braced composite box car, from the old MDC diecast line. In decent shape, but.... somebody stuck some trucks on it that look like they might be off an AC Gilbert steam loco tender. Or something. And they have no wheelsets... LOL. Perhaps the wrong gauge? > > Anyway, since all of these cars originally would have come with a decent pair of sprung trucks, I have to wonder what happened to them, if they wore out, or guys got tired of worrying about orientation and shorts, or what. I've encountered a few with much newer delrin trucks, and even some with Lindberg trucks - remember those? All plastic (probably delrin) sprung trucks. Too stiff to really equalize, but twisty enough to get out of square and stay that way long enough to derail. I'm pulling those off and tossing them in an ebay box because there may be a market for them yet. > > So what's the wackiest trucks you've ever come across> > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18556	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

Three years and a bit ago I was given 4 big boxes of old H0 stuff. Trucks? Heck.....not one of six or seven cabooses had matching trucks. They were all there, just had to figure out which ones went where. Freight cars, similar. Couplers? Heck, stack of washers under the bolster, they still had to whack the Kadee pins off as they were too low. As I re-worked them, I figured the car height was a design characteristic, so I milled the floors to raise the coupler pocket UP. Then I said, screw it, and put Mantuas on them, just to upset the local nmra-tyes (it worked!) Dave > /Some people have not learned about time period correctness. Any kind > of wheels and any kind of couplers will do for some folks. I have seen > it since I became involved in scale modeling in 1958. > Don Staton in VA > ------------------------------------------------------ > / > > On 3/8/2012 11:25 AM, Lawrence wrote: > > > > Wacky? Wacky are the folks who come to the club with sterling models > > but have NO concept of what trucks to put under them. I see Dash 9s > > pulling 100 ton cars with fox, arch bar, friction and roller bearing, > > and sometimes arch bars and roller bearings on the same car. The > > precise solid or friction bearing or roller bearing to use is maybe a > > little daunting, but you would think the era would be a good clue on > > the basic type. I have been accused of nitpicking, but it looks like > > that nit kinda needs to be picked. I mean, wouldn't you cringe if an > > intermodal set showed up with an arch bar truck or a nicely done > > Ulrich with 100 ton roller bearings ... or is it just me? > > > > Dale in Spokane > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "greendoddz" <greendoddz@> wrote: > > > > > > Ever notice when you come across a built vintage piece of rolling > > stock somewhere, the odds are pretty strong that the trucks will be... > > in some way wacky? I suppose a major contributor to this is that so > > many kits came without trucks in the 1940s and 50s, and people would > > just use whatever they had or whatever the hobby shop had in stock. > > But most of the cars I've been seeking originally came with trucks - > > Athearn metal, MDC die cast, Ulrich die cast, etc. They all came with > > metal multi-piece sprung trucks of some sort. > > > > > > When opening up an unbuilt kit, generally if the trucks are still > > sealed in the baggie, envelope or those cool little snug-fitting > > cardboard boxes, they're *probably* the trucks that were supposed to > > come with the kit. But a lot of the built cars have a Bettendorf on > > one end and an arch-bar on the other end, or most commonly, two > > completely different brands/styles of Bettendorf. The all metal trucks > > were insulated on one side, and if they were not insulated from the > > car's frame, if you didn't keep both trucks oriented the same way > > you'd have a dead short when placed on the track. And often before the > > breaker blew, it would get hot enough to melt the insulation, thus > > destroying the wheel sets. So that probably happened enough to explain > > various truck swap-outs, or these vintage metal trucks with newer > > plastic wheels stuck in them and what not. > > > > > > But sometimes it's just nuts. I bought 14 cars - almost all of them > > Athearn metal box cars - from the same seller, all in the same > > shipment. From the condition of them and general look - they all had > > Kadees - they all appeared to be from the same original owner. Yet the > > trucks were all over the place. Out of the 14 cars, I really only > > needed to put four of them into service for my project, and I was > > screwing and unscrewing all over the place just to find four decent > > pairs of trucks. Some cars had one truck that looked decent and the > > other was corroded and white. Some had really stupid spacers, more > > than the .040" washer generally required just to keep the wheels from > > scraping the crossmembers on the Athearn cars (thus causing a short, > > and melting more axle insulation). > > > > > > I about fell on the floor though when I opened up an old MDC box > > I've had for years... forgot all about it. It's an SP outside-braced > > composite box car, from the old MDC diecast line. In decent shape, > > but.... somebody stuck some trucks on it that look like they might be > > off an AC Gilbert steam loco tender. Or something. And they have no > > wheelsets... LOL. Perhaps the wrong gauge? > > > > > > Anyway, since all of these cars originally would have come with a > > decent pair of sprung trucks, I have to wonder what happened to them, > > if they wore out, or guys got tired of worrying about orientation and > > shorts, or what. I've encountered a few with much newer delrin trucks, > > and even some with Lindberg trucks - remember those? All plastic > > (probably delrin) sprung trucks. Too stiff to really equalize, but > > twisty enough to get out of square and stay that way long enough to > > derail. I'm pulling those off and tossing them in an ebay box because > > there may be a market for them yet. > > > > > > So what's the wackiest trucks you've ever come across> > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18557	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

I've been following the"car weighting" thread for a few days. I have nothing against lead as a material - it's great for certain applications.   Why is everyone so hep on having heavy rolling stock? I remove weights whenever possible and concentrate on tech such as trackwork, wheel alignment(and smooth, non-sharp flanges!) and couplers that don't have "side push," such as Kadees and dummies. Never a problem - I can back a 22-car train up a 1.8% grade through curves - all heavy cars at the wrong end of the train and so on. Yes, it was an experiment, successful too, and I show my friends at every opportunity, just to make a point.(One of the cars is an Athearn 40' plastic flat with NO weight and it's usually about the third car!)   The only freight car here that ever needed weight added was a home-built piece I did as a kid - long flatcar(75 footer), which was virtually weightless due to its being made from balsa wood...   Heavy weight just adds to wear and tear on trucks, loco motors and gear trains, etc.   My 2 cents' worth...   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18558	From: 23weldon	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

I think the reason for a lot of the mismatched trucks you see is that the die cast sprung trucks often broke.  They are pretty highly stressed at the end of the bolster or the thin members of arch bar side frames.  A short drop was all it took.  Also early onset of zinc pest further weakened them.  I have a lot of that in an old scrap box somewhere. We usually see zinc pest as the massive cracking or even crumbling of a larger casting.  But long before that condition is visible the intergranular bonds of the metal are weakening making stressed parts easy to break. Zinc pest in the 1950's era was the result of random impurities in the zinc alloys.  Once the metallurgists got a handle on it the manufacturers tightened the metallurgical specs for manufacturing the alloy. Sometime in the late 1960's (I think) the problem for normal model railroaders had gone away.  But it will remain a source of heartache for those of us who are collectors of the vintage stuff.  I have a special interest in the old Lindsay Stubbies as they are very easy to convert to HOn3. When I find one, like on ebay, I hold my breath so to speak when I first open the package. The one up side is that the defective alloy was a random occurrence in small lots of ingot.  So if you have it happen to a part on one of your models there is a pretty good chance that a replacement part if you can find one will be OK. If you cannot find a good replacement part there is still hope of duplicating the old part if it is not too far gone for you to handle it on your work bench.  Some "body work" and help from various epoxies and Squadron Green and or the like might pretty well get you a pattern and hopefully stabilize it to the point of keeping a scanable form for a while.  Then find someone with a 3d scanner like a Next Engine and a high quality 3d printer.  These capabilities are rare today in most parts of the country but time is changing that.  Your replacement part will no longer be original but with some careful work it may still be quite acceptable in appearance. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18559	From: Nelson Butz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Attachments : Howard-adj.jpg Andy, I hadn't kept the photo, so I had to go back and re-do it. The sharpening doesn't really do much for it, it was more lighting adjustments. I think it's a GP30 under the bridge, since it has a long rectangular face, and the time frame is right. It looks like to be light gray with an orange roof. I've attached the photo, so I hope it posts to the group. Nelson --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I blew up and sharpened the photo. The loco under the bridge looks like an Athearn GP30, which would fit the time frame. Must have some good sharpening software. Can you post your sharpened clip? What's weird is that I can't identify very many of the freight cars specifically, which probably means there are some Hobbyline, Varney, etc stuff I'm less familiar with than the typical Athearn and MDC stuff of the era and before. One thing I remember specifically is a very noisy EMD switcher one of the guys was switching the yard with. I remember it grinding loudly as it attempted to pull a cut of cars it couldn't really handle. I don't know if it was a Varney, or Revell or what but I suspect it was the Revell with the helical gears. I can't spot it in the photo though. Andy

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18560	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: won a bid

Yesterday I won a bid on eBay . It is a MDC/Roundhouse 2-6-0 Steam Engine. This is my second MDC because their on engine I feel vintage collectable was there first run 0-6-0 with oil tender and the 4 piece cab. I bought it because of how much use the Railroad got out of it. It looks, to me, well weathered and just caught my eye. # 390396092920 Bowser / HO B&O Steam Engine and tender. The only thing I don't like are the large slotted screws holding the rods on the drivers which must be normal as under MDC the same exact type of engine has those screws. I hope I am soon able to find some vintage items I want. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18561	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

Fred: Many years ago the NMRA developed standards for the proper weight of cars. So much weight for each inch of car if I remember correctly. Back then the metal roundhouse metal cars weighed  3 times as much as an early wood and paper cars. A flat car was a feather next to the heavy metal models. Unless someone is an artist at laying track, or are sure to put light cars at the back of the train usually there were problems.   I vaguely remember also the idea of getting the scale car weight in proper proportion to the full size stuff, but I'm not sure.  So much for the history as I remember it.  In HO a 40 ft. car should weigh approx. 4 to 4.5 oz.  I have been following this practice for years. I generally run trains of not more then 12 cars as that is about as much as the passing sidings in most of my towns can handle.. I get a kick out running a train with flat cars near the front. Any how I hope that helps clear up the situation a bit.  Philip Entingh From: Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Car Weighting - Why?     I've been following the"car weighting" thread for a few days. I have nothing against lead as a material - it's great for certain applications.   Why is everyone so hep on having heavy rolling stock? I remove weights whenever possible and concentrate on tech such as trackwork, wheel alignment(and smooth, non-sharp flanges!) and couplers that don't have "side push," such as Kadees and dummies. Never a problem - I can back a 22-car train up a 1.8% grade through curves - all heavy cars at the wrong end of the train and so on. Yes, it was an experiment, successful too, and I show my friends at every opportunity, just to make a point.(One of the cars is an Athearn 40' plastic flat with NO weight and it's usually about the third car!)   The only freight car here that ever needed weight added was a home-built piece I did as a kid - long flatcar(75 footer), which was virtually weightless due to its being made from balsa wood...   Heavy weight just adds to wear and tear on trucks, loco motors and gear trains, etc.   My 2 cents' worth...   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18562	From: nvrr49	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Lindsay HO Stubby Repower

I have a Stubby shell and am looking to power it with a new power unit. I also want to cut in windows per the Navy Yard 15 engine, which seems to be close to the prototype. Any suggestions on a possible power unit? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18563	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

Fred, This question has been asked numerous times on many different boards.  In fact, the NMRA car weighting issue has been beat to death many times with people lining up on both sides much like the civil war.  The fact remains that each modeler does what works for them and that is all that matters.  In weighting equipment the only thing that really matters is if it stays on the track or not at the speeds you normally operate your trains.  I have known modelers who rely on heavily weighted cars to compensate for their poor track work and in some cases this does work.  Some modelers have heavily weighted cars just because they have always done it that way while still others believe that if the NMRA says the cars should weigh a certain amount than it must be right.  Irv Athearn thought the NMRA was incorrect in their assumptions and as such most of the cars he produced were lighter than the NMRA recommendations.  I personally go with light weight free rolling cars as my small locomotives can then pull consists of length similar to the prototype locomotives.  The light weight cars I build work well on my hand laid code 70 rail at the speeds my trains operate.      Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > >   > I've been following the"car weighting" thread for a few days. I have nothing against lead as a material - it's great for certain applications. >   > Why is everyone so hep on having heavy rolling stock? I remove weights whenever possible and concentrate on tech such as trackwork, wheel alignment(and smooth, non-sharp flanges!) and couplers that don't have "side push," such as Kadees and dummies. Never a problem - I can back a 22-car train up a 1.8% grade through curves - all heavy cars at the wrong end of the train and so on. Yes, it was an experiment, successful too, and I show my friends at every opportunity, just to make a point.(One of the cars is an Athearn 40' plastic flat with NO weight and it's usually about the third car!) >   > The only freight car here that ever needed weight added was a home-built piece I did as a kid - long flatcar(75 footer), which was virtually weightless due to its being made from balsa wood... >   > Heavy weight just adds to wear and tear on trucks, loco motors and gear trains, etc. >   > My 2 cents' worth... >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18564	From: Glenn	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

It is not a “Standard”—things that affect interchange—it is a “Recommended Practice”.   I did some surveys for the Engineering Dept someyears ago—a lot of the respondents used lighter weights than the RP’s, but  found that weights in a narrow range performed better. Glenn Joesten   From: P Entingh Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 6:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Car Weighting - Why?   Fred: Many years ago the NMRA developed standards for the proper weight of cars. So much weight for each inch of car if I remember correctly. Back then the metal roundhouse metal cars weighed  3 times as much as an early wood and paper cars. A flat car was a feather next to the heavy metal models. Unless someone is an artist at laying track, or are sure to put light cars at the back of the train usually there were problems.   I vaguely remember also the idea of getting the scale car weight in proper proportion to the full size stuff, but I'm not sure.  So much for the history as I remember it.  In HO a 40 ft. car should weigh approx. 4 to 4.5 oz.  I have been following this practice for years. I generally run trains of not more then 12 cars as that is about as much as the passing sidings in most of my towns can handle.. I get a kick out running a train with flat cars near the front. Any how I hope that helps clear up the situation a bit.  Philip Entingh   From: Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Car Weighting - Why?     I've been following the"car weighting" thread for a few days. I have nothing against lead as a material - it's great for certain applications.   Why is everyone so hep on having heavy rolling stock? I remove weights whenever possible and concentrate on tech such as trackwork, wheel alignment(and smooth, non-sharp flanges!) and couplers that don't have "side push," such as Kadees and dummies. Never a problem - I can back a 22-car train up a 1.8% grade through curves - all heavy cars at the wrong end of the train and so on. Yes, it was an experiment, successful too, and I show my friends at every opportunity, just to make a point.(One of the cars is an Athearn 40' plastic flat with NO weight and it's usually about the third car!)   The only freight car here that ever needed weight added was a home-built piece I did as a kid - long flatcar(75 footer), which was virtually weightless due to its being made from balsa wood...   Heavy weight just adds to wear and tear on trucks, loco motors and gear trains, etc.   My 2 cents' worth...   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18565	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

>SHOULD have had CV sprung archbar trucks (they came with the kits) >but instead had modern Athearn Delrin roller-bearing trucks. There was a stretch of time in maybe 1969-70-71 when *every* Athearn freight car came with roller bearing trucks. I mean everything... 40' box cars, caboose, all kinds of steam era stuff. My guess is Athearn ran a couple zillion of them and just stuffed them in everything. As to swiping the good trucks for other stuff... I'm guilty of that somewhat. Rarely did we have a freight car with CV trucks, but I remember robbing some of dad's cars and some older Athearn plastic for the sprung trucks to put on my newer Athearn box cars. I later replaced them again with Kadee trucks and the originals got misplaced or tossed in a junk box. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18566	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> wrote: > > /Some people have not learned about time period correctness. Any kind > of wheels and any kind of couplers will do for some folks. I have seen > it since I became involved in scale modeling in 1958. Well in my day modeling job I'm a prototype modeler focusing on the mid 1970s and it is important to get the right trucks. If I don't have them or they aren't available, I'll use whatever is closest, as long as it's an operable truck... some brass models come with worthless trucks. And if the right truck does come along, they can be easily replaced unlike most other details. For the vintage stuff, I will go with whatever the kit originally came with, if I can find it. At least the era is usually correct. I've actually been somewhat surprised how many different trucks were out there in the 50s. Some of them not very good. But most manufacturers made more than one type. Ulrich made a basic Bettendorf and also a T-section. Although it's possible that manufacturers even then bought components from each other which is still done today - many craftsman kits and resin kits come with trucks from a third party. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18567	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Wrong Trucks, Mismatched Trucks, Crazy Trucks

> I think the reason for a lot of the mismatched trucks you see is that the die cast sprung trucks often broke. They are pretty highly stressed at the end of the bolster or the thin members of arch bar side frames. A short drop was all it took. Also early onset of zinc pest further weakened them. I have a lot of that in an old scrap box somewhere. I've seen a few trucks rot - but I've also seen them badly corroded but still holding together. MDC seemed to have less trouble with rot than some. Most of their die cast box cars that I have are quite solid at age 50-60. Ulrich stuff was pretty solid as well. Varney was the worst of the majors, and Bowser had problems too. I remember back in the 70s buying a vintage Bowser Challenger. It was fully assembled and it ran, but I took it apart to strip it and repaint it and the frames both broke in several pieces. The cover plates were all that held them together. Climate, humidity and other factors also have a major impact on zinc longevity. It seems like when I buy a vintage metal piece from California, it's much less likely to be corroded... just like buying a car from California. Here in the muggy Ohio Valley, in the old basements this stuff lived in, a lot of it is just plain gone. Part of my "Dad's Freight Train" web feature will be pictures of what's left of the original cars that I've duplicated. Some are quite solid (the MDC GN box car), and others are almost unrecognizable. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18568	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

> I hadn't kept the photo, so I had to go back and re-do it. The sharpening doesn't really do much for it, it was more lighting adjustments. I think it's a GP30 under the bridge, since it has a long rectangular face, and the time frame is right. It looks like to be light gray with an orange roof. I'm not sure I'm looking at the right thing. Is it under the curved trestle that crosses over the yard? The other bridge doesn't have track under it. I can't spot anything like you describe so I must be looking in the wrong place. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18569	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

I've never followed the NMRA standards, I've always just weighted cars with either what they came with or just by feel. I know guys who run VERY light weight stuff successfully, and I understand what they're doing but it's all about the whole system. One of my chunkier cars tossed in with their stuff would screw up the works. I've never had a lot of trouble one way or another - it's usually easy to bring a car up to a decent weight. Some naturally underweight cars like plastic flat cars it can become a challenge if you don't want to place a load on the car. Manufacturers have taken to using more metal on flat cars lately. Atlas and BLMA have both released new 89' flat car models that the basic car body is die cast. Athearn and Walthers have 89' cars with plastic bodies but strategically embedded metal parts - they all work. Probably the lightest cars I run are some Intermountain wood-deck flat cars. I observed one of them in a curve in the middle of a long train lifting all four outboard wheels off the rail, but it didn't come off. My similar vintage metal Athearn flat car weighs about 2x! Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18570	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

The actual weight of a car is not as important as the fact the your weights be consistent thoughout the train. To this end, many Vintage modelers (myself included) who have a lot of Ulrich, Redball and MDC diecast cars find we need to weight our plastic and wood cars UP to be within a reasonable weight when running in the same train with the heavier than normal die cast cars. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hultberg" <fhultberg@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 1:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Car Weighting - Why? I've been following the"car weighting" thread for a few days. I have nothing against lead as a material - it's great for certain applications. Why is everyone so hep on having heavy rolling stock? I remove weights whenever possible and concentrate on tech such as trackwork, wheel alignment(and smooth, non-sharp flanges!) and couplers that don't have "side push," such as Kadees and dummies. Never a problem - I can back a 22-car train up a 1.8% grade through curves - all heavy cars at the wrong end of the train and so on. Yes, it was an experiment, successful too, and I show my friends at every opportunity, just to make a point.(One of the cars is an Athearn 40' plastic flat with NO weight and it's usually about the third car!) The only freight car here that ever needed weight added was a home-built piece I did as a kid - long flatcar(75 footer), which was virtually weightless due to its being made from balsa wood... Heavy weight just adds to wear and tear on trucks, loco motors and gear trains, etc. My 2 cents' worth... Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18571	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: won a bid

I think you probably got a good locomotive.  I am going to guess it has brass tires on the drivers.  Also, MDC Roundhouse at some point changed ans started to use press in rod "screws" that were not threaded at all, but pushed in.  Unfortunately these come loose once in a while.  I was unaware that MDC Roundhouse used rod screws with screw driver slots, I thought the early ones used hex heads.  I know the Varney engines used screw driver slots and thought the looked hokey. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:05:40 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] won a bid   Yesterday I won a bid on eBay . It is a MDC/Roundhouse 2-6-0 Steam Engine. This is my second MDC because their on engine I feel vintage collectable was there first run 0-6-0 with oil tender and the 4 piece cab. I bought it because of how much use the Railroad got out of it. It looks, to me, well weathered and just caught my eye. # 390396092920 Bowser / HO B&O Steam Engine and tender. The only thing I don't like are the large slotted screws holding the rods on the drivers which must be normal as under MDC the same exact type of engine has those screws. I hope I am soon able to find some vintage items I want. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18572	From: James Bartelt	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Cedarburg, WI Model Train Show Reminder Sunday March 11th, 2012

Just a reminder that the METRO Model Railroad Club's 17TH annual railroad show and swap meet is on Sunday, March 11th, 2012 at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on. Plus if the weather stays nice there will be train rides for the kids. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train layout on display. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Jerry Krug of the C&NWHS, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader as well as Model Train Cars from Exact Rail. This is the 17th consecutive year for the show. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, Exact Rail, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. James Bartelt Show Chairman 262-284-5876 jimbartelt@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18573	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

I found that changing all of my wheelsets over to Intermountain metal made a huge difference in operations. 1. the cars roll MUCH more freely, 2. they deal with switches and crossovers better, 3. the track stays cleaner, 4. they add a little weight, 5. the rolling surfaces are nice and shiny like the prototype, and 6. they sound really neat to my ears (some folks may not like the last part). When you have free-rolling trucks, weight is nowhere nearly as critical. If anybody wants a large bag of "pizza cutter" plastic wheelsets, I would be happy to oblige. That is one facet of vintage models that I will not miss for a second. I also used to have a bag of "X2F" couplers, but I sold them for a penny each many years ago. Mike On 3/8/2012 8:14 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > The actual weight of a car is not as important as the fact the your weights > be consistent thoughout the train. To this end, many Vintage modelers > (myself included) who have a lot of Ulrich, Redball and MDC diecast cars > find we need to weight our plastic and wood cars UP to be within a > reasonable weight when running in the same train with the heavier than > normal die cast cars. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18574	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

Mike: If you have any all plastic wheel sets, including axles, I am interested.  Philip Entingh From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Car Weighting - Why? I found that changing all of my wheelsets over to Intermountain metal made a huge difference in operations. 1. the cars roll MUCH more freely, 2. they deal with switches and crossovers better, 3. the track stays cleaner, 4. they add a little weight, 5. the rolling surfaces are nice and shiny like the prototype, and 6. they sound really neat to my ears (some folks may not like the last part). When you have free-rolling trucks, weight is nowhere nearly as critical. If anybody wants a large bag of "pizza cutter" plastic wheelsets, I would be happy to oblige. That is one facet of vintage models that I will not miss for a second. I also used to have a bag of "X2F" couplers, but I sold them for a penny each many years ago. Mike On 3/8/2012 8:14 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > The actual weight of a car is not as important as the fact the your weights > be consistent thoughout the train. To this end, many Vintage modelers > (myself included) who have a lot of Ulrich, Redball and MDC diecast cars > find we need to weight our plastic and wood cars UP to be within a > reasonable weight when running in the same train with the heavier than > normal die cast cars. > > Don > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18575	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > When you have free-rolling > trucks, weight is nowhere nearly as critical. I guess I have developed a "feel" for how much weight a given car should have, but other than a few passenger cars that I did a spreadsheet on for comparison, I couldn't tell you what any of them actually weigh. The type of vintage stuff I'm interested is quite a bit heavier than contemporary models of equivalent cars, so I haven't had to add anything at all. > bag of "pizza cutter" plastic wheelsets, I would be happy to oblige. > That is one facet of vintage models that I will not miss for a second. Because my vintage operating stock is fairly small, I am ok with keeping the old sprung trucks and pre-RP25 style flanges. There are actually several different flange profiles. Not sure which if any of them are "NMRA" compliant for their time. Some are definitely pizzacutters, others are more reasonable but not RP25. However when it came to the couplers, Kadees have been around 50+ years so it's perfectly legit to use them unless you have designs on an older vintage period. TBQH, the cardstock and paper/wood stuff doesn't really interest me much, not to the degree the metal stuff of the 50s does. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18576	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Looking for info

On 3/10/2012 10:39 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > Last week an item went off on Ebay from a company I never heard > of. Go to 200722174421 Vintage 1968 Parkway Industries HO > Scale Santa Fe Engine and tender. It was a 4-6-0 with the last driver > having a split or space between the other drivers. It had an O/B. > I'm not sure if the 1968 is a street address for Parkway Industries or > a year made. To me the item looks plastic and the tender wheels look > plastic like total pick up may be in the engine. It has "Imported > Components" written on the side of the box. Went cheap $9.99. Anyone > ever hear of this company let me know ? > > I was going to bid on it but had bids in on 2 other items. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Looking for info

The 1968 is about right for Parkway. They were a cheap Chinese made brand, I believe they may have had something to do with Model Power or American Train & Track. They were basically all the same models, many of which also showed us as Bachman and Tyco. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 9:46 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for info > On 3/10/2012 10:39 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Last week an item went off on Ebay from a company I never heard >> of. Go to 200722174421 Vintage 1968 Parkway Industries HO >> Scale Santa Fe Engine and tender. It was a 4-6-0 with the last driver >> having a split or space between the other drivers. It had an O/B. >> I'm not sure if the 1968 is a street address for Parkway Industries or >> a year made. To me the item looks plastic and the tender wheels look >> plastic like total pick up may be in the engine. It has "Imported >> Components" written on the side of the box. Went cheap $9.99. Anyone >> ever hear of this company let me know ? >> >> I was going to bid on it but had bids in on 2 other items. >> >> Jim H > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18578	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Looking for info

I had this same style engine in the 1960's and I'm sure that it was sold then by Varney, I think it's still in a box at my mother's house. It ran pretty well but I wasn't happy with the European look of the cab and the engine in general. But it was given to me by my father, so I just lived with it.   Rich K From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:46 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for info   On 3/10/2012 10:39 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > Last week an item went off on Ebay from a company I never heard > of. Go to 200722174421 Vintage 1968 Parkway Industries HO > Scale Santa Fe Engine and tender. It was a 4-6-0 with the last driver > having a split or space between the other drivers. It had an O/B. > I'm not sure if the 1968 is a street address for Parkway Industries or > a year made. To me the item looks plastic and the tender wheels look > plastic like total pick up may be in the engine. It has "Imported > Components" written on the side of the box. Went cheap $9.99. Anyone > ever hear of this company let me know ? > > I was going to bid on it but had bids in on 2 other items. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18579	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18580	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Car Weighting - Why?

I'm wondering the same thing. I don't want my engines pulling around a bunch of "dead" weight. With attention to proper track gauge, keeping all wheelsets (both plastic & metal) in gauge and body mounting Kadee couplers, I can back a string of 40 cars in and around in our classification yard. The backing move includes running through the switch that leads to the engine house, a pair of switches to and from the parallel main line, the switch for the caboose track and then the switches for the eight track yard. No derailments. The yard lead also includes a 30 inch radius curve. I've had people watch during our open houses and comment on ability to back that size a train through that many switches without derailing. I have a video proving what I'm saying, taken at one of our open houses. All my cars are weighted with stock weights. My empty flat cars do not weigh the same as a loaded box car ... how do the prototype railroads do that? I've had my empty flats at the head end of my string of cars and no derailments. Keep those wheels in gauge and the Kadees body mounted and you can do away with the toxic, deadly lead weights.   So Fred, I'm right there with you!   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Hultberg To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Car Weighting - Why?     I've been following the"car weighting" thread for a few days. I have nothing against lead as a material - it's great for certain applications.   Why is everyone so hep on having heavy rolling stock? I remove weights whenever possible and concentrate on tech such as trackwork, wheel alignment(and smooth, non-sharp flanges!) and couplers that don't have "side push," such as Kadees and dummies. Never a problem - I can back a 22-car train up a 1.8% grade through curves - all heavy cars at the wrong end of the train and so on. Yes, it was an experiment, successful too, and I show my friends at every opportunity, just to make a point.(One of the cars is an Athearn 40' plastic flat with NO weight and it's usually about the third car!)   The only freight car here that ever needed weight added was a home-built piece I did as a kid - long flatcar(75 footer), which was virtually weightless due to its being made from balsa wood...   Heavy weight just adds to wear and tear on trucks, loco motors and gear trains, etc.   My 2 cents' worth...   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18581	From: pjentingh	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Model car weight.

I had no idea there would be so much response to my car weighing note. So I thought I would throw a few more logs on the fire. HO scale being 1/87 in size, If we multiply 87 for the length times 87 for the width times 87 for the height we get 658,503. this is the number of HO size units ( ie. a 40 FT box car ) that would fit in the same space as a real car. If we divide by 4, my 4 oz. box car weight, I get 164,625 or 82.3 tons. or the other way, if we multiply .25 LB. X 658,503 we get 164,625 lbs. or 82.3 tons. So by my calculations my 4 or 4.5 oz car is a good representation in scale of a real car weight. Some full, and some empty. So now its time to figure out how many cars the locomotive that you are using for any given consist has the ability to pull to be reasonably prototypical. My lash up of 3 F7's should be pulling more cars than my 0-8-0 switcher or my 44 ton switcher. I am going to let each of you figure that one out for yourself. We are concerned about proper truck type, era, etc.. All good, fun, important stuff for this great hobby. I think scale car weight should also be considered as important. Otherwise I'm going to have to throw out all my great collection of boiler plate cars. OK guys, throw it against the wall and see how much sticks. I am not a mathematician, so you may poke holes in my math also if its wrong. Enjoy. Philip Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18582	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Model car weight.

Hi Phil, I think my philosophy pretty much follows what you are doing.  But, I fully believe rule no.1., for everyone. 1. This is MY railroad, etc. (I will do what I want with it.) :o) If you run your trains prototypically, IE. REALLY SLOW starts and you have excellent trackwork and trucks and wheelsets, and no one else is going to run them, then likely there will be no problems. However, if you do operations and trains usually pull more than 15 or so cars, and various different operators will be running trains, in addition to perfect trackwork, trucks, couplers, and wheelsets, you would do good to weight the cars. The famous Sippers and Switchers run up to 125 car trains and they pretty much require them to be weighted. http://www.mindspring.com/~gugliotta/id2.html -------------------snip snip snip--------------------------------------- All equipment must meet the NMRA gauge, the Kadee coupler gauge, and NMRA weight. We recommend 150% NMRA weight where possible. Because our trains are so long, extra weight in cars really helps to keep the wheels on the rails, something we have found through experience. -------------------snip snip snip--------------------------------------- I have seen them runs trains of over 200 cars (weighted), but this is not usual.  I have also seen them back up a 100 car train all around the railroad in one demonstration.  Keep in mind, this is a modular railroad that comes together everytime in a matter of a few hours and is torn down after 2 or 3 days fo rnning. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pjentingh@... Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:49:03 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Model car weight.   I had no idea there would be so much response to my car weighing note. So I thought I would throw a few more logs on the fire. HO scale being 1/87 in size, If we multiply 87 for the length times 87 for the width times 87 for the height we get 658,503. this is the number of HO size units ( ie. a 40 FT box car ) that would fit in the same space as a real car. If we divide by 4, my 4 oz. box car weight, I get 164,625 or 82.3 tons. or the other way, if we multiply .25 LB. X 658,503 we get 164,625 lbs. or 82.3 tons. So by my calculations my 4 or 4.5 oz car is a good representation in scale of a real car weight. Some full, and some empty. So now its time to figure out how many cars the locomotive that you are using for any given consist has the ability to pull to be reasonably prototypical. My lash up of 3 F7's should be pulling more cars than my 0-8-0 switcher or my 44 ton switcher. I am going to let each of you figure that one out for yourself. We are concerned about proper truck type, era, etc.. All good, fun, important stuff for this great hobby. I think scale car weight should also be considered as important. Otherwise I'm going to have to throw out all my great collection of boiler plate cars. OK guys, throw it against the wall and see how much sticks. I am not a mathematician, so you may poke holes in my math also if its wrong. Enjoy. Philip Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18583	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Model car weight.

Vic: I absolutely agree. This hobby is all about having fun with what I believe is the greatest hobby in the world. I got involved with model trains in 1952. at ahe 14. I learned all my basic skills as a teenager to be able to finish my career as a senior design engineer without any formal education. Each of us could do nothing better than to mentor a grand kid or some neighbor with this great hobby.  Have fun and keep the ideas and experiences coming. Philip Entingh From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Model car weight.   Hi Phil, I think my philosophy pretty much follows what you are doing.  But, I fully believe rule no.1., for everyone. 1. This is MY railroad, etc. (I will do what I want with it.) :o) If you run your trains prototypically, IE. REALLY SLOW starts and you have excellent trackwork and trucks and wheelsets, and no one else is going to run them, then likely there will be no problems. However, if you do operations and trains usually pull more than 15 or so cars, and various different operators will be running trains, in addition to perfect trackwork, trucks, couplers, and wheelsets, you would do good to weight the cars. The famous Sippers and Switchers run up to 125 car trains and they pretty much require them to be weighted. http://www.mindspring.com/%7Egugliotta/id2.html -------------------snip snip snip--------------------------------------- All equipment must meet the NMRA gauge, the Kadee coupler gauge, and NMRA weight. We recommend 150% NMRA weight where possible. Because our trains are so long, extra weight in cars really helps to keep the wheels on the rails, something we have found through experience. -------------------snip snip snip--------------------------------------- I have seen them runs trains of over 200 cars (weighted), but this is not usual.  I have also seen them back up a 100 car train all around the railroad in one demonstration.  Keep in mind, this is a modular railroad that comes together everytime in a matter of a few hours and is torn down after 2 or 3 days fo rnning. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pjentingh@... Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:49:03 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Model car weight.   I had no idea there would be so much response to my car weighing note. So I thought I would throw a few more logs on the fire. HO scale being 1/87 in size, If we multiply 87 for the length times 87 for the width times 87 for the height we get 658,503. this is the number of HO size units ( ie. a 40 FT box car ) that would fit in the same space as a real car. If we divide by 4, my 4 oz. box car weight, I get 164,625 or 82.3 tons. or the other way, if we multiply .25 LB. X 658,503 we get 164,625 lbs. or 82.3 tons. So by my calculations my 4 or 4.5 oz car is a good representation in scale of a real car weight. Some full, and some empty. So now its time to figure out how many cars the locomotive that you are using for any given consist has the ability to pull to be reasonably prototypical. My lash up of 3 F7's should be pulling more cars than my 0-8-0 switcher or my 44 ton switcher. I am going to let each of you figure that one out for yourself. We are concerned about proper truck type, era, etc.. All good, fun, important stuff for this great hobby. I think scale car weight should also be considered as important. Otherwise I'm going to have to throw out all my great collection of boiler plate cars. OK guys, throw it against the wall and see how much sticks. I am not a mathematician, so you may poke holes in my math also if its wrong. Enjoy. Philip Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18584	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Model car weight.

On 3/11/2012 1:49 PM, pjentingh wrote: > I had no idea there would be so much response to my car weighing note. So I thought I would throw a few more logs on the fire. HO scale being 1/87 in size, If we multiply 87 for the length times 87 for the width times 87 for the height we get 658,503. this is the number of HO size units ( ie. a 40 FT box car ) that would fit in the same space as a real car. If we divide by 4, my 4 oz. box car weight, I get 164,625 or 82.3 tons. or the other way, if we multiply .25 LB. X 658,503 we get 164,625 lbs. or 82.3 tons. So by my calculations my 4 or 4.5 oz car is a good representation in scale of a real car weight. Some full, and some empty. So now its time to figure out how many cars the locomotive that you are using for any given consist has the ability to pull to be reasonably prototypical. My lash up of 3 F7's should be pulling more cars than my 0-8-0 switcher or my 44 ton switcher. I am going to let each of you figure that one out for yourself. We are concerned about proper truck type , era, etc.. All good, fun, important stuff for this great hobby. I think scale car weight should also be considered as important. Otherwise I'm going to have to throw out all my great collection of boiler plate cars. OK guys, throw it against the wall and see how much sticks. I am not a mathematician, so you may poke holes in my math also if its wrong. Enjoy. Philip Entingh > > > > ------------------------------------ Most of us do not care about scaling prototype weight into HO scale. We want our models to look right and run right. The weight of a model doesn't effect it's looks at all. Weight does effect running. Heavy cars stay on the track better than light cars. Heavy cars are harder to pull up grades. NMRA RP20 is a reasonable compromise between staying on the track and getting a long train up a grade. On my railroad I adhere to NMRA RP20.1 (1 oz plus 1/2 oz per inch of car length). Many people adhere to other standards, or no standard at all. I wish them luck and happiness in the hobby. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18585	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

Attachments : listings 244.JPG listings 241.JPG listings 240.JPG I knew that was you that outbid me Jim! Hey Jim, I do not have a Marx truck alone, but I do have a Marx engine that is not perfect, but the chassis is intact and in good shape. It's yours if you need it:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Won Vintage Engine   On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18586	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine [3 Attachments]

Sean,       How did I ever beat you. I would be glad to have that Marx F-3 chassis. Let me know how much plus shipping.                                                                        Jim On 3/11/2012 5:43 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   I knew that was you that outbid me Jim! Hey Jim, I do not have a Marx truck alone, but I do have a Marx engine that is not perfect, but the chassis is intact and in good shape. It's yours if you need it:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Won Vintage Engine   On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18587	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Today's show.

Our group, Cream City Traction, displayed at the Metro Model RR Club show in Cedarburg, WI today, got a lot of favorable comments, but I did manage to score a few nice pieces at the swap meet tables. Two cardstock Varney AAR boxcars, the silver GN and the blue & silver B&O Sentinel, one aluminum Globe, the CRIP silver, a couple newer cars including an original "pre-claw" Athearn AAR Box car in the Cof G "Football" that I've been looking for years, and a Lionel FB-1 to go with my Hobbyline A unit. One car that MAY be a "Kar Line", an Omaha box in the yellow & green "400" scheme. I don't see it in my Kar-Line lists, but it does have the characteristic glossy finish, even some runs in the paint, but NOT decalled lettering. The nicest part of the whole deal is they were ALL (except for the Alco) $ 5.00 or less (I paid $10.00 for the Lionel B unit). I'm have computer problems right now, so it'll be a bit, but pictures will be added to my albums. Had one interesting experience. Had a fellow stop by the layout "I've got some 'vintage' trains here that were my father's, I'm trying to find a little more about them". We've all had people come up to us and say "I've got these rare old trains, what are they worth?" and then the pull a Tyco "Chattanooga" Alco Century out of the bag, so you can imagine my pleasant surprise when he pulls out, in the original box, looking complete except for valve gear, a John English "yardbird" 0-4-0. I then had to apologize for getting drool all over it. He also had a Varney cardstock Blatz reefer, which is a car I've been looking for. I gave him the URL for the group and told him to join, we may be hearing from him. All in all, a worthwhile day. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18588	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Today's show.

---- Hello Don I sold the Omaha boxcar, it is one of the WISE divisions special runs from the 70's if I recall correctly. Roger Aultman -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ============= Our group, Cream City Traction, displayed at the Metro Model RR Club show in Cedarburg, WI today, got a lot of favorable comments, but I did manage to score a few nice pieces at the swap meet tables. Two cardstock Varney AAR boxcars, the silver GN and the blue & silver B&O Sentinel, one aluminum Globe, the CRIP silver, a couple newer cars including an original "pre-claw" Athearn AAR Box car in the Cof G "Football" that I've been looking for years, and a Lionel FB-1 to go with my Hobbyline A unit. One car that MAY be a "Kar Line", an Omaha box in the yellow & green "400" scheme. I don't see it in my Kar-Line lists, but it does have the characteristic glossy finish, even some runs in the paint, but NOT decalled lettering. The nicest part of the whole deal is they were ALL (except for the Alco) $ 5.00 or less (I paid $10.00 for the Lionel B unit). I'm have computer problems right now, so it'll be a bit, but pictures will be added to my albums. Had one interesting experience. Had a fellow stop by the layout "I've got some 'vintage' trains here that were my father's, I'm trying to find a little more about them". We've all had people come up to us and say "I've got these rare old trains, what are they worth?" and then the pull a Tyco "Chattanooga" Alco Century out of the bag, so you can imagine my pleasant surprise when he pulls out, in the original box, looking complete except for valve gear, a John English "yardbird" 0-4-0. I then had to apologize for getting drool all over it. He also had a Varney cardstock Blatz reefer, which is a car I've been looking for. I gave him the URL for the group and told him to join, we may be hearing from him. All in all, a worthwhile day. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18589	From: Jay	Date: 3/11/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

Jim H! I'm so glad you won this locomotive, I believe the first US HO scale diesel switcher? While it is the same Alco HH600 prototype as their later - 1940 cast lead version, it is a completely different model, more to scale with narrower hood width and shorter too. The front cab roof has the prototypical overhang for the earliest prototype HH's, which the lead one does not. I was also bidding on it as I had no time to check if you saw it, and would have offered it to you first like that Sampson, but my bid hand was too slow. I already have two, one with a severly damaged hood roof - it was the first vintage HO locomotive I purchased about 15 years ago at a local show and a model of a specific DL&W prototype, they had about 7 of the first 8 totally "flat fronts." I have an extensive detailed year by year guide and write up about these bronze beauties - pretty much my favorite vintage diesel switchers - and the Walthers power trucks and their gas electrics I will publish here very soon. Will have info on gear ratios, construction and prices and other noteworthy features. Those look like the earliest Sand Cast Bronze side frames - the type of metal casting that Walthers named. The power truck frame, made from thin soldered brass shapes is also Walther's earliest. The only mystery to me is the pulley drive as Walthers alreday had the geared drive truck, introduced a year earlier, also used for the C&NW gas electric, later with different ratios. Last fall, I was able to purcase a boxed, partially assembled 1937 Walthers "Taylor Made" C&NW gas electric, with Armite fiber sides, cast bronze front and truck sideframes, not lead. All 1937 though 1966 catalog notations and adverstising specifies a geared drive for all Walters units, but there were many upgardes, gear rations and versions. The one HH600 Walthers adverstiment I have NOT seen is Walthers, December 1938 MR ad, which introduces the locomotive. Perhaps someone will scan and post that ad here for us to see what drive method was first featured. A WARNING! Don't forget, easy on the volts, these are 6-8 volt 3 pole Pitman motors if original, and most were set up for outside third rail operation with uninsulated wheelsets! Wow, so great that you finally have one, It will look super when you clean it up. I have to read the rest of the comments! PS, you bought it at a GREAT price, too, they are under valued and truly scarce! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18590	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

Cool, Jim It takes a trained eye to see the beauty within this one. Nice that you scored a bronze casting set. Looks like they used a passenger car truck for the unpowered set. Is that typical for that era? I can think of a few other alternatives, but I know you'll want to keep it period correct and use vintage parts available in the early 1940's. As I recall, Walthers offered the HH660 casting set for many years after it was originally offered in their catalog (I can remember still seeing it in the late 1960's) Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18591	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Today's show.

Don, I you may see some additional requests for membership as I have invited a few guys from the Yahoo based Early Rails board over because the discussion there was about the Central Valley car kits.  It appears there is no comprehensive listing of CV cars and I know from conversation I had with George Hooks that not all the cars were ever featured in any one catalog and some may have never been in any catalog.    Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > Had one interesting experience. Had a fellow stop by the layout "I've got > some 'vintage' trains here that were my father's, I'm trying to find a > little more about them". We've all had people come up to us and say "I've > got these rare old trains, what are they worth?" and then the pull a Tyco > "Chattanooga" Alco Century out of the bag, so you can imagine my pleasant > surprise when he pulls out, in the original box, looking complete except for > valve gear, a John English "yardbird" 0-4-0. I then had to apologize for > getting drool all over it. He also had a Varney cardstock Blatz reefer, > which is a car I've been looking for. > > I gave him the URL for the group and told him to join, we may be hearing > from him. > > All in all, a worthwhile day. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18592	From: wdavis5069	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

I have scanned the Dec 1938 Walthers ad and placed it in a folder called WD's Stuff. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/WD%27s%20Stuff/ The only thing it says about the drive is "ready-to-go motor" Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Jim H! > > I'm so glad you won this locomotive, I believe the first US HO scale diesel switcher? While it is the same Alco HH600 prototype as their later - 1940 cast lead version, it is a completely different model, more to scale with narrower hood width and shorter too. The front cab roof has the prototypical overhang for the earliest prototype HH's, which the lead one does not. > > I was also bidding on it as I had no time to check if you saw it, and would have offered it to you first like that Sampson, but my bid hand was too slow. I already have two, one with a severly damaged hood roof - it was the first vintage HO locomotive I purchased about 15 years ago at a local show and a model of a specific DL&W prototype, they had about 7 of the first 8 totally "flat fronts." > > I have an extensive detailed year by year guide and write up about these bronze beauties - pretty much my favorite vintage diesel switchers - and the Walthers power trucks and their gas electrics I will publish here very soon. Will have info on gear ratios, construction and prices and other noteworthy features. > > Those look like the earliest Sand Cast Bronze side frames - the type of metal casting that Walthers named. The power truck frame, made from thin soldered brass shapes is also Walther's earliest. The only mystery to me is the pulley drive as Walthers alreday had the geared drive truck, introduced a year earlier, also used for the C&NW gas electric, later with different ratios. > > Last fall, I was able to purcase a boxed, partially assembled 1937 Walthers "Taylor Made" C&NW gas electric, with Armite fiber sides, cast bronze front and truck sideframes, not lead. All 1937 though 1966 catalog notations and adverstising specifies a geared drive for all Walters units, but there were many upgardes, gear rations and versions. > > The one HH600 Walthers adverstiment I have NOT seen is Walthers, December 1938 MR ad, which introduces the locomotive. Perhaps someone will scan and post that ad here for us to see what drive method was first featured. > > A WARNING! Don't forget, easy on the volts, these are 6-8 volt 3 pole Pitman motors if original, and most were set up for outside third rail operation with uninsulated wheelsets! > > Wow, so great that you finally have one, It will look super when you clean it up. I have to read the rest of the comments! > > PS, you bought it at a GREAT price, too, they are under valued and truly scarce! > > W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > > > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > > > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > > > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > > > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > > > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > > > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > > > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > > > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > > > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > > > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > > > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > > > > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > > > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > > > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18593	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Walthers E-7 A&B

I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown clearly cast into the interior top. I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep thinking about building my own. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18594	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B

Jim: How does what you are looking for differ from the  E7, 8, 9 locomotives. That Hobbytown Of Boston produced?  There are usually some of their models for sale on Ebay.. Philip Entingh From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B   I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown clearly cast into the interior top. I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep thinking about building my own. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18595	From: gary	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Construction Advice and Diagram

Hey guys, Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. Gary Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18596	From: Jay	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

Thank you, Wil D., Its been a long day and a night meeting too, just home an hour ago and what a treat to sign on and be able to finally see this introductory ad I've wondered about for a long while. I agree, nothing conclusive refering to the drive mechanism, only the words comparing it to the gas electric. However, I believe this is the only referece Walthers ever made to the possibility of using a second powered truck, so a bit of new information to me. Incidentally Walthers kept using this same photo of the cast bronze version all though the 1940's even when they changed to the much different lead castings, except for one year, when they used a new, low contrast photo of the lead unit. The very next year, they went back to the original bronze unit's photo! Will post my cronological history in a day or two. Thanks again. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wdavis5069" <wdavis5069@...> wrote: > > I have scanned the Dec 1938 Walthers ad and placed it in a folder called WD's Stuff. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/WD%27s%20Stuff/ The only thing it says about the drive is "ready-to-go motor" > > Wil > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Jim H! > > > > I'm so glad you won this locomotive, I believe the first US HO scale diesel switcher? While it is the same Alco HH600 prototype as their later - 1940 cast lead version, it is a completely different model, more to scale with narrower hood width and shorter too. The front cab roof has the prototypical overhang for the earliest prototype HH's, which the lead one does not. > > > > I was also bidding on it as I had no time to check if you saw it, and would have offered it to you first like that Sampson, but my bid hand was too slow. I already have two, one with a severly damaged hood roof - it was the first vintage HO locomotive I purchased about 15 years ago at a local show and a model of a specific DL&W prototype, they had about 7 of the first 8 totally "flat fronts." > > > > I have an extensive detailed year by year guide and write up about these bronze beauties - pretty much my favorite vintage diesel switchers - and the Walthers power trucks and their gas electrics I will publish here very soon. Will have info on gear ratios, construction and prices and other noteworthy features. > > > > Those look like the earliest Sand Cast Bronze side frames - the type of metal casting that Walthers named. The power truck frame, made from thin soldered brass shapes is also Walther's earliest. The only mystery to me is the pulley drive as Walthers alreday had the geared drive truck, introduced a year earlier, also used for the C&NW gas electric, later with different ratios. > > > > Last fall, I was able to purcase a boxed, partially assembled 1937 Walthers "Taylor Made" C&NW gas electric, with Armite fiber sides, cast bronze front and truck sideframes, not lead. All 1937 though 1966 catalog notations and adverstising specifies a geared drive for all Walters units, but there were many upgardes, gear rations and versions. > > > > The one HH600 Walthers adverstiment I have NOT seen is Walthers, December 1938 MR ad, which introduces the locomotive. Perhaps someone will scan and post that ad here for us to see what drive method was first featured. > > > > A WARNING! Don't forget, easy on the volts, these are 6-8 volt 3 pole Pitman motors if original, and most were set up for outside third rail operation with uninsulated wheelsets! > > > > Wow, so great that you finally have one, It will look super when you clean it up. I have to read the rest of the comments! > > > > PS, you bought it at a GREAT price, too, they are under valued and truly scarce! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > > > > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > > > > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > > > > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > > > > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > > > > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > > > > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > > > > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > > > > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > > > > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > > > > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > > > > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > > > > > > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > > > > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > > > > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18597	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Look at google books for carbuilders dictionary and cyclopedia they have several flats the newest book is 1919 but they go back to mid 1800's,have you looked on HOseeker for the diagrams that came with the kits.The carbuilders cyclopedia has builders drawings to work from and goes into detail of all components and hardware used on cars,I use these for scratchbuilding equipment.      Alan From: gary <garyp552002@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 7:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram   Hey guys, Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. Gary Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18598	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B

Hi Jim H.  I have an extra Walthers/hobbytown B unit in the original box as you described, with the right label, with papers, but less trucks if you want it, as I bought three inexpensively, about 9$ and change each and only need two. I believe they all have the special exclusive Walthers cast lead coupler mounting parts that fit into the hobbytwon castings. I was saving the extra in hope of trading it for a similar Walthers/hobbytown A unit, but one of these should be in your collection, too. For years I have had one pair of those somewhat odd looking EMD six axle trucks (not the equal of hobbytown's or Lindsay's) and finally found out what they were intended for. Whenever you find an extra Walthers/hobbytown A-unit, ship it my way!  Incidentally, I believe these units were only cataloged by Walthers one or possibly two years.   Hi Philip E., You asked how can one tell the difference in body castings without the box.  I stared at them both for quite a while until I noticed the obvious difference.  All hobbytown E units have a cast boss in the roof that is threaded to mount the frame, and this threaded boss is present in the underside of the Walther's hobbytown E-7's castings as well.  But the important part is that Walthers used a self contained power truck with no chassis or frame!  Both the power truck and trailing trucks use a body bolster mounted with two screws to the body casting, assembled much like the trucks on the zamac John English Alco FA & FB units.  To accomplish this, the hobbytown body castings supplied by Walthers have the four inside body bosses THREADED!  The same bosses in hobbytown sold shells are not drilled or threaded, at least in every example I have.  (Those bosses were used by hobbytown to support and index their own chassis.)   It's late so no link, but HOSEEKER has the illustrated instruction sheet on this interesting model.   W. Jay W.   From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B   I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown clearly cast into the interior top. I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep thinking about building my own. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18599	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 3/12/2012
Subject: Re: Photo of boxed Walthers E-7 B

Attachments : Walthers - hobbytown E-7B.jpg Hi all, I should have included this eBay photo of the above in my last post as an attachment instead of trying to paste it into the text!  Got to get to sleep!  W. Jay W. From: Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B       Hi Jim H.  I have an extra Walthers/hobbytown B unit in the original box as you described, with the right label, with papers, but less trucks if you want it, as I bought three inexpensively, about 9$ and change each and only need two. I believe they all have the special exclusive Walthers cast lead coupler mounting parts that fit into the hobbytwon castings. I was saving the extra in hope of trading it for a similar Walthers/hobbytown A unit, but one of these should be in your collection, too. For years I have had one pair of those somewhat odd looking EMD six axle trucks (not the equal of hobbytown's or Lindsay's) and finally found out what they were intended for. Whenever you find an extra Walthers/hobbytown A-unit, ship it my way!  Incidentally, I believe these units were only cataloged by Walthers one or possibly two years.   Hi Philip E., You asked how can one tell the difference in body castings without the box.  I stared at them both for quite a while until I noticed the obvious difference.  All hobbytown E units have a cast boss in the roof that is threaded to mount the frame, and this threaded boss is present in the underside of the Walther's hobbytown E-7's castings as well.  But the important part is that Walthers used a self contained power truck with no chassis or frame!  Both the power truck and trailing trucks use a body bolster mounted with two screws to the body casting, assembled much like the trucks on the zamac John English Alco FA & FB units.  To accomplish this, the hobbytown body castings supplied by Walthers have the four inside body bosses THREADED!  The same bosses in hobbytown sold shells are not drilled or threaded, at least in every example I have.  (Those bosses were used by hobbytown to support and index their own chassis.)   It's late so no link, but HOSEEKER has the illustrated instruction sheet on this interesting model.   W. Jay W.   From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B   I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown clearly cast into the interior top. I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep thinking about building my own. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18600	From: Jay	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B link to instruction sheet

Hi All, Here is the link to the Walthers/hobbytown of Boston E-7 A&B instruction sheet (provided to HOSeeker by Jim H.) in which one can see the Walthers method of mounting the powered and unpowered trucks to the body shell without using the hobbytown of Boston frame/chassis (which was not yet in production by hobbytown - the E-7's their first product, was introduced in stages - hobbytown first sold the shells alone, then introduced the truck sideframes, then the chassis and complete kits.) http://www.hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6413e7pass1946.jpg One can also see the special Walthers white metal coupler mounting castings that Walthers included, as mounting couplers on the body shells alone, without benefit of chassis/frame was problematic at best! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi all, I should have method of mouting the power trucks to the body shell without a chassis, also visivleare the unique coupler mounting included this eBay photo of the above in my last post as an attachment instead of trying to paste it into the text!  Got to get to sleep!  W. Jay W. > > > From: Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> > To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:32 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B > > >   > > > > > Hi Jim H.  I have an extra Walthers/hobbytown B unit in the original box as you described, with the right label, with papers, but less trucks if you want it, as I bought three inexpensively, about 9$ and change each and only need two. I believe they all have the special exclusive Walthers cast lead coupler mounting parts that fit into the hobbytwon castings. I was saving the extra in hope of trading it for a similar Walthers/hobbytown A unit, but one of these should be in your collection, too. For years I have had one pair of those somewhat odd looking EMD six axle trucks (not the equal of hobbytown's or Lindsay's) and finally found out what they were intended for. Whenever you find an extra Walthers/hobbytown A-unit, ship it my way!  Incidentally, I believe these units were only cataloged by Walthers one or possibly two years. > > Hi Philip E., You asked how can one tell the difference in body castings without the box.  I stared at them both for quite a while until I noticed the obvious difference.  All hobbytown E units have a cast boss in the roof that is threaded to mount the frame, and this threaded boss is present in the underside of the Walther's hobbytown E-7's castings as well.  But the important part is that Walthers used a self contained power truck with no chassis or frame!  Both the power truck and trailing trucks use a body bolster mounted with two screws to the body casting, assembled much like the trucks on the zamac John English Alco FA & FB units.  To accomplish this, the hobbytown body castings supplied by Walthers have the four inside body bosses THREADED!  The same bosses in hobbytown sold shells are not drilled or threaded, at least in every example I have.  (Those bosses were used by hobbytown to support and index their own chassis.) > > It's late so no link, but HOSEEKER has the illustrated instruction sheet on this interesting model. > > W. Jay W. > >   > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:52 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B > > >   > > > I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A > and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in > it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a > Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear > box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a > Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin > type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding > the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon > yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street > address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown > clearly cast into the interior top. > > I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I > could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So > while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep > thinking about building my own. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18601	From: David J. Starr	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

On 3/12/2012 10:01 PM, gary wrote: > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue > > White glue and yellow Carpenter's glue are pretty much the same stuff as far as model applications go. Both give very strong joints IF the work is clamped while the glue dries. Without clamping the the joints are much weaker. Spring clothes pins make nice clamps. Joints need to dry overnight before they are strong enough to handle. Working time (time where the glue is soft enough to reposition parts) is generous, tens of minutes. Glue squeeze outs or "whoopsies" will prevent wood stains from soaking in. I use white or yellow glue for important structural joints, like gluing the roof to the end blocks to the floor on house cars. Nitrocellulose cement (Duco cement) dries in minutes, and is strong enough for nearly all wood kit construction. No clamping required. CA (superglue) and epoxy work, but for wood joints I never need the extra strength they provide. Air brake rigging was pretty much the same on all kinds of cars. I used an advertisement photo of the bottom of a model car as a guide. One hint I'll pass on. Don't run brake rigging under the trucks, it interferes with wheel rolling and truck swiveling. Bring the brake rods to a discrete end just before the trucks. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18602	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Gary , Who is the manufacture of the kits?  I am thinking you purchased the Scotia Scale Models kits?  I can send you the layout for the brake rigging but please contact me off line. Go to my WEB site and under the equipment plans on the home page click on the flat car plan and let me know if that is similar to what you have. You can also see images of completed cars on the Roundhouse page under Revenue Equipment and Cabeese. I have used Ambroid glue exclusively for over 33 years for wood to wood glueing because it shrinks and pulls the wood components together.    Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18603	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B

Philip,       I hope between what Jay and I wrote and the picture he told you about on HOseeker and how to bring it up you will have a lot of info. I want to add one thing that is being overlooked. The HOBBYTOWN  E-7 A&B has an O Gauge size motor in it. It is Pittman's DC-91. The Walthers / Hobbytown has a much smaller HO Pittman motor a DC-60. This should be a way to tell them apart.     All,    From what I know the Hobbytown E units, the Model Power Sharknose and the Winton Allegheny are the only HO engines having this O Gauge DC-91 in them as Original equipment. If you know others let me know.                                                                               Jim H On 3/12/2012 7:36 PM, P Entingh wrote:   Jim: How does what you are looking for differ from the  E7, 8, 9 locomotives. That Hobbytown Of Boston produced?  There are usually some of their models for sale on Ebay.. Philip Entingh From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B   I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown clearly cast into the interior top. I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep thinking about building my own. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18604	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers E-7 A&B

W Jay W.      I would like that Walthers / Hobbytown B unit in the box with any paperwork. Let me know off site how much you want plus shipping. Also if you can send a close up of the odd looking EMD six axle trucks for the Walthers / Hobbytown E unit I would appreciate that.                                      Jim On 3/12/2012 11:32 PM, Jay Wanczyk wrote:       Hi Jim H.  I have an extra Walthers/hobbytown B unit in the original box as you described, with the right label, with papers, but less trucks if you want it, as I bought three inexpensively, about 9$ and change each and only need two. I believe they all have the special exclusive Walthers cast lead coupler mounting parts that fit into the hobbytwon castings. I was saving the extra in hope of trading it for a similar Walthers/hobbytown A unit, but one of these should be in your collection, too. For years I have had one pair of those somewhat odd looking EMD six axle trucks (not the equal of hobbytown's or Lindsay's) and finally found out what they were intended for. Whenever you find an extra Walthers/hobbytown A-unit, ship it my way!  Incidentally, I believe these units were only cataloged by Walthers one or possibly two years.   Hi Philip E., You asked how can one tell the difference in body castings without the box.  I stared at them both for quite a while until I noticed the obvious difference.  All hobbytown E units have a cast boss in the roof that is threaded to mount the frame, and this threaded boss is present in the underside of the Walther's hobbytown E-7's castings as well.  But the important part is that Walthers used a self contained power truck with no chassis or frame!  Both the power truck and trailing trucks use a body bolster mounted with two screws to the body casting, assembled much like the trucks on the zamac John English Alco FA & FB units.  To accomplish this, the hobbytown body castings supplied by Walthers have the four inside body bosses THREADED!  The same bosses in hobbytown sold shells are not drilled or threaded, at least in every example I have.  (Those bosses were used by hobbytown to support and index their own chassis.)   It's late so no link, but HOSEEKER has the illustrated instruction sheet on this interesting model.   W. Jay W.   From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers E-7 A&B   I was going to set my sightson looking for the Walthers E-7A and E-7B that was sold circa 1948 till I started finding out what was in it . It was numbered 6413 Passenger according to Walthers. They used a Walthers power truck that had all 6 wheels driven. It had a cast gear box with a plate held on by six 2-56 screws. The motor appeared to be a Pittman DC -60. The truck side frames are made of a high quality tin type metal. The underpowered truck had 4 copper eyelet rivets holding the bolster to the side frames. The 13"long Walther's box has the lemon yellow color with blue/green printing and has the 241-E Erie Street address. The kicker for all of this is the bodies which have Hobbytown clearly cast into the interior top. I got to thinking if I can't find either the A or B in the box I could scrounge the parts but maybe minus the original side frames. So while I search for the original Walthers made engines I will keep thinking about building my own. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18605	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

White glue eventually falls apart. It might take years, or it might happen during weathering with water based paints, as I sadly discovered one day. One of the Cal-Scale plastic brake sets will have a very good diagram of the brake rigging for a car. If someone hasn't got a diagram to send you. I think this link will help you. Don't miss the bottom of that page. http://www.railroad-line.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10653 Mike Bauers On Mar 12, 2012, at 9:01 PM, gary wrote: > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18606	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Mike, Just what I needed. Thanks for the help!! Gary --- On Tue, 3/13/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 2:36 PM   White glue eventually falls apart. It might take years, or it might happen during weathering with water based paints, as I sadly discovered one day. One of the Cal-Scale plastic brake sets will have a very good diagram of the brake rigging for a car. If someone hasn't got a diagram to send you. I think this link will help you. Don't miss the bottom of that page. http://www.railroad-line.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10653 Mike Bauers On Mar 12, 2012, at 9:01 PM, gary wrote: > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18607	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Denny, The flat car on your site is very close to what I have. Mine are John Rendall kits. I would appreciate any diagrams etc. I really appreciate your help. Gary Pardue --- On Tue, 3/13/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Construction Advice and Diagram To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 12:32 PM   Gary , Who is the manufacture of the kits?  I am thinking you purchased the Scotia Scale Models kits?  I can send you the layout for the brake rigging but please contact me off line. Go to my WEB site and under the equipment plans on the home page click on the flat car plan and let me know if that is similar to what you have. You can also see images of completed cars on the Roundhouse page under Revenue Equipment and Cabeese. I have used Ambroid glue exclusively for over 33 years for wood to wood glueing because it shrinks and pulls the wood components together.    Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18608	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Attachments : remflat-p.jpg Gary, Attached is a photo of A REM flat car kit. Not sure if it matchs what you have. They were made for a short time by a fellow I met in Texas at a train show a number of years ago. As I recall they are free lance and meant to be 'typical' but not for a specific railroad. Dick W.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18609	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Gary , The John Rendall kits are the old Scotia Scale Models kits just a different box.  I'll find  the plans sheets I have and try and get them out to you.  They are almost identical to my scratchbuilt cars. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, gary pardue <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Denny, > The flat car on your site is very close to what I have. Mine are John Rendall kits. I would appreciate any diagrams etc. I really appreciate your help. > Gary Pardue > > --- On Tue, 3/13/12, cwrailman cwrailman@... wrote: > > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Construction Advice and Diagram > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 12:32 PM > > > >   > > > > > Gary , > Who is the manufacture of the kits?  I am thinking you purchased the Scotia Scale Models kits?  I can send you the layout for the brake rigging but please contact me off line. > Go to my WEB site and under the equipment plans on the home page click on the flat car plan and let me know if that is similar to what you have. > You can also see images of completed cars on the Roundhouse page under Revenue Equipment and Cabeese. > I have used Ambroid glue exclusively for over 33 years for wood to wood glueing because it shrinks and pulls the wood components together.    > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" garyp552002@ wrote: > > > > Hey guys, > > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > > Gary Pardue > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18610	From: wdavis5069	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Won Vintage Engine

Glad to contribute something. My early MRs are spotty, but as luck would have it that one was there. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Thank you, Wil D., Its been a long day and a night meeting too, just home an hour ago and what a treat to sign on and be able to finally see this introductory ad I've wondered about for a long while. I agree, nothing conclusive refering to the drive mechanism, only the words comparing it to the gas electric. However, I believe this is the only referece Walthers ever made to the possibility of using a second powered truck, so a bit of new information to me. > > Incidentally Walthers kept using this same photo of the cast bronze version all though the 1940's even when they changed to the much different lead castings, except for one year, when they used a new, low contrast photo of the lead unit. The very next year, they went back to the original bronze unit's photo! Will post my cronological history in a day or two. Thanks again. W. Jay W. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wdavis5069" <wdavis5069@> wrote: > > > > I have scanned the Dec 1938 Walthers ad and placed it in a folder called WD's Stuff. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/WD%27s%20Stuff/ The only thing it says about the drive is "ready-to-go motor" > > > > Wil > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > Jim H! > > > > > > I'm so glad you won this locomotive, I believe the first US HO scale diesel switcher? While it is the same Alco HH600 prototype as their later - 1940 cast lead version, it is a completely different model, more to scale with narrower hood width and shorter too. The front cab roof has the prototypical overhang for the earliest prototype HH's, which the lead one does not. > > > > > > I was also bidding on it as I had no time to check if you saw it, and would have offered it to you first like that Sampson, but my bid hand was too slow. I already have two, one with a severly damaged hood roof - it was the first vintage HO locomotive I purchased about 15 years ago at a local show and a model of a specific DL&W prototype, they had about 7 of the first 8 totally "flat fronts." > > > > > > I have an extensive detailed year by year guide and write up about these bronze beauties - pretty much my favorite vintage diesel switchers - and the Walthers power trucks and their gas electrics I will publish here very soon. Will have info on gear ratios, construction and prices and other noteworthy features. > > > > > > Those look like the earliest Sand Cast Bronze side frames - the type of metal casting that Walthers named. The power truck frame, made from thin soldered brass shapes is also Walther's earliest. The only mystery to me is the pulley drive as Walthers alreday had the geared drive truck, introduced a year earlier, also used for the C&NW gas electric, later with different ratios. > > > > > > Last fall, I was able to purcase a boxed, partially assembled 1937 Walthers "Taylor Made" C&NW gas electric, with Armite fiber sides, cast bronze front and truck sideframes, not lead. All 1937 though 1966 catalog notations and adverstising specifies a geared drive for all Walters units, but there were many upgardes, gear rations and versions. > > > > > > The one HH600 Walthers adverstiment I have NOT seen is Walthers, December 1938 MR ad, which introduces the locomotive. Perhaps someone will scan and post that ad here for us to see what drive method was first featured. > > > > > > A WARNING! Don't forget, easy on the volts, these are 6-8 volt 3 pole Pitman motors if original, and most were set up for outside third rail operation with uninsulated wheelsets! > > > > > > Wow, so great that you finally have one, It will look super when you clean it up. I have to read the rest of the comments! > > > > > > PS, you bought it at a GREAT price, too, they are under valued and truly scarce! > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 3/10/2012 8:29 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I knew if I waited a little I'd come up with a > > > > > vintage engine for my collection and at a great price as far as I'm > > > > > concerned. Go to 290678625069 HO Southern Pacific ALCO HH-660 Bronze > > > > > Diesel by Walthers. ( Click on picture with ended across to bring up > > > > > larger picture and sellers write up. This is pre war and the earliest > > > > > version by Walthers. Getting the motor and drive a big plus. Only > > > > > downside is the missing side frame ( search will begin for one ). I > > > > > know it doesn't look like much but this before picture is just the > > > > > type of project I like to work on. It originally came undecorated so > > > > > the bad paint job can be taken off. I don't think I'll paint it as I > > > > > like to show the basic metal which is Bronze. The handrails will be > > > > > fixed and what ever else I find when it comes. > > > > > > > > > > I have the later cast lead version by Walthers HH-660 mint in > > > > > O/B with plans still in Mint kit form. A nice addition to the ever > > > > > growing collection. Maybe I'll remember before and after pictures. > > > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18611	From: Nelson	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Spotter Heaven?

Andy, it's the loco under the bridge near the left edge of the layout. The Warren truss section ends just above it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > > I hadn't kept the photo, so I had to go back and re-do it. The sharpening doesn't really do much for it, it was more lighting adjustments. I think it's a GP30 under the bridge, since it has a long rectangular face, and the time frame is right. It looks like to be light gray with an orange roof. > > I'm not sure I'm looking at the right thing. Is it under the curved trestle that crosses over the yard? The other bridge doesn't have track under it. I can't spot anything like you describe so I must be looking in the wrong place. > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18612	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

I think I have that Scotia kit, still in the box. Give me a shout if you can't find your instructions. Mike Bauers On Mar 13, 2012, at 4:36 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > Gary, > > The John Rendall kits are the old Scotia Scale Models kits just a different box. I'll find the plans sheets I have and try and get them out to you. They are almost identical to my scratchbuilt cars.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18613	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Mike, I have 6 copies of the instructions and they all are so muddy that details cannot be made out. Gary --- On Tue, 3/13/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Construction Advice and Diagram To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 9:25 PM   I think I have that Scotia kit, still in the box. Give me a shout if you can't find your instructions. Mike Bauers On Mar 13, 2012, at 4:36 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > Gary, > > The John Rendall kits are the old Scotia Scale Models kits just a different box. I'll find the plans sheets I have and try and get them out to you. They are almost identical to my scratchbuilt cars.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18614	From: Alan	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Here is a link for the scotia 36' truss rod gondola it may be what you need. http://www.hoseeker.net/scotia/scotia34trussrodgondola1971.jpg Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18615	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

Alan, Thanks for the link. Exactly my kit and what I need. Gary --- On Tue, 3/13/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Construction Advice and Diagram To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 13, 2012, 10:52 PM   Here is a link for the scotia 36' truss rod gondola it may be what you need. http://www.hoseeker.net/scotia/scotia34trussrodgondola1971.jpg Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <garyp552002@...> wrote: > > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18616	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660

Attachments : IMG_7811.JPG IMG_7810-18616.JPG IMG_7804.JPG IMG_7802.JPG IMG_7801.JPG Jim W, Jay W, All I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and mostly all the handrails will need work. I'll know better when I clean it up. It has the original Walthers 6 volt motor that does run but I don't know how. If you look at a close up you will see the brushes are only riding on about the front third of the armature. I will have to try to move the brushes to A BETTER POSITION SOME HOW.. The O ring needed for the drive is minor. The side frames for the front dummy wheels will be a problem. I'll try to find them but if that fails I have matching side frames and will have a little creating to do. Needless to say this is a PROJECT that will require some time. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18617	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments]

Got a pair of Walthers 4 wheel coach trucks hanging around? It appears to me, on my later HH660, at least, that the truck sideframes are very similar to the sideframes of early Walthers 4 wheel coach trucks. The top horizontal bar (Whatever it may be called) is trimmed down, but a file or Dremel tool makes short work of that. Sadly, my HH660 fell apart when I moved in 2010, and I've never fixed it back up. I ended up putting two power trucks in mine, using John English ALCO power trucks I salvaged from a badly deteriorating unit I got at Trainfest one year. Got the unit for $5 as the body was rotted pretty bad, but the power trucks were good. That operation did require a lot of work to get the English truck to mount properly in the Walthers body. The power trucks ended up being mongrels of both Walthers and English parts. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/14/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:29 PM   Jim W, Jay W, All I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and mostly all the handrails will need work. I'll know better when I clean it up. It has the original Walthers 6 volt motor that does run but I don't know how. If you look at a close up you will see the brushes are only riding on about the front third of the armature. I will have to try to move the brushes to A BETTER POSITION SOME HOW.. The O ring needed for the drive is minor. The side frames for the front dummy wheels will be a problem. I'll try to find them but if that fails I have matching side frames and will have a little creating to do. Needless to say this is a PROJECT that will require some time. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18618	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

I use carpenter's glue as it cleans up well; glue smears can be painted over.  I'm currently building an Ambroid 1 in 5000 and for nostalgia's sake (the orange tube and the scent of solvent brought back memories of my teenage years) am using the tube of Ambroid cement that originally came with the kit.  Still good after 50 years but it is difficult to clean up and it will resist being painted over.  Someone else on this thread has addressed the brake arrangement issue.  If these are from the 60's they probably have Cal-Scale Type K brake parts which included a pretty good generic sketch of how to rod and pipe the brakes.  Are these Scotia Scale Models kits?   John B. Allyn From: "gary" <garyp552002@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:01:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram   Hey guys, Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. Gary Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18619	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

If you feel you must use Amroid cement, you can clean up excess with acetone.  You can do this easily with a q-tip. I do know modelers that have built beautiful and long lasting models with Ambroid cement, but in my opinion, why bother.  It really isn't that easy to use.  It is good for model airplanes where weight is a factor, but for Ambroid cars, I use yellow carpenters glue.  Back in the old days, I built them with Elmers white glue and after 40 plus years they are as solid as ever. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: john.allyn@... Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:22:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram   I use carpenter's glue as it cleans up well; glue smears can be painted over.  I'm currently building an Ambroid 1 in 5000 and for nostalgia's sake (the orange tube and the scent of solvent brought back memories of my teenage years) am using the tube of Ambroid cement that originally came with the kit.  Still good after 50 years but it is difficult to clean up and it will resist being painted over.  Someone else on this thread has addressed the brake arrangement issue.  If these are from the 60's they probably have Cal-Scale Type K brake parts which included a pretty good generic sketch of how to rod and pipe the brakes.  Are these Scotia Scale Models kits?   John B. Allyn From: "gary" <garyp552002@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:01:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram   Hey guys, Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. Gary Pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18620	From: cwrailman	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Construction Advice and Diagram

There are probably as many different wood glues out there as there are kit manufactures and everyone has their favorite.  Mine is and has been Ambroid exclusively for over 32 years.  If you check out the Roundhouse on my WEB site, every single wood car both freight and passenger were built using Ambroid cement.  Those images represent about a third of the kit and scratch cars built in our shops.  There are five new tubes and one partial currently in my tool box. In addition to the cars I have used Ambroid for over 95 structures with some of the models dating back to late 1974.  The structure projects I delineate on my WEB site are examples of what I build.  I have never had one joint fail and several of the cars have been accidentally dropped onto concrete floors.  About 10 of the 20 or so structures I built for our club in Chicago suffered from a water pipe break many years ago and through the seasonal changes they go through temperature changes of over 30 degrees and yet the structures have remained stable since first installed in 1975. If you look under the photo section of this board you will see a passenger car project under CWRailman/FRL that was built using Ambroid.  In addition, if you use the search feature of this board and go back about a year when we last beat the adhesives issue to death you will see Jim and I explain why we use Ambroid verses using White or Carpenters glue.   O ne benefit is that it is compatible with the sealers we use to seal the wood grain and the putties we use to repair large surface defects.  I have always found that when working with wood it always beneficial to have all the products used in the various aspects of construction be compatible with one another.   I don't understand why you say it will be difficult to paint over the Ambroid.  Because they are solvent based paints, both Floquil and Scalecoat adhere better to Ambroid glue than to a water soluble glue. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > If you feel you must use Amroid cement, you can clean up excess with acetone. You can do this easily with a q-tip. > I do know modelers that have built beautiful and long lasting models with Ambroid cement, but in my opinion, why bother. It really isn't that easy to use. It is good for model airplanes where weight is a factor, but for Ambroid cars, I use yellow carpenters glue. Back in the old days, I built them with Elmers white glue and after 40 plus years they are as solid as ever. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > CC: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: john.allyn@... > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:22:29 +0000 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use carpenter's glue as it cleans up well; glue smears can be painted over. I'm currently building an Ambroid 1 in 5000 and for nostalgia's sake (the orange tube and the scent of solvent brought back memories of my teenage years) am using the tube of Ambroid cement that originally came with the kit. Still good after 50 years but it is difficult to clean up and it will resist being painted over. Someone else on this thread has addressed the brake arrangement issue. If these are from the 60's they probably have Cal-Scale Type K brake parts which included a pretty good generic sketch of how to rod and pipe the brakes. Are these Scotia Scale Models kits? > > > John B. Allyn > > > From: "gary" garyp552002@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:01:41 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Construction Advice and Diagram > > > > > > > > Hey guys, > Just picked up 6 all wood craftsman 36'truss rod flatcar kits, as the price was right. I plan to use them to haul logs behind my Shays. First, what type of glue is reccommended for all wood? Carpenters glue, white glue ??????????? Second, the diagrams that came with the kits are so muddy I cannot make out anything about the underside brake piping and rigging. Where to find a typical diagram? I am not particular about any specific prototype, anything will do. Thanks for any help. > Gary Pardue >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18621	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot > of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and > mostly all the handrails will need work. You have more guts than I have to tackle that thing... a true "blacksmith" kit. Good luck and I will be following your progress with interest. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18622	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: How I Learned Cuss Words

I just received this in the mail today: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350539298474 My dad had one of these - one of four steam locos he had when I was little, and #3 in the size department. I think he must have bought the first kit off the production line. The driver castings weren't even round. He ended up getting those replaced. I do have memories of it running, and it made a very distinctive, scratchy growling sound that sounded like "tawza-tawza-tawza" That's when it wasn't howling and squealing. Whenever dad decided to "fix" the Tawzic as we called it, I was sure to learn some new words I wasn't supposed to repeat around mommy. It had some rather prototypical Atlantic problems, excessive pitch and yaw conspired to make it pop wheelies and then come down with the lead driver cocked off the rail. But the best was once when he tinkered with it for the better part of an hour, stuck it on the track and it screeched like a baby lamb being branded with a hot iron. I actually thought dad had installed a working whistle in it, but before I could say a word he yanked it off the track in a flurry of cuss words and threw it in the workbench drawer where it probably stayed another 6 months. I thought it was pretty funny. He didn't think it was funny nor did he think it was funny that I thought it was funny :-) I bought this not because I need to learn any new words, but, well, because it's fun. I am not expecting much from it. In fact, it has already exceeded expectations. It's missing the right side valve gear, but still has the main rod. I hooked the alligator clips up and applied power and it moved half a turn and then jammed - oh yeah, the valve gear doesn't like being upside down. Backed it off and held it right side up... and the little sucker runs! The trademark "tawza" sound is there but not that prominent without the reinforcement of wood roadbed on plywood benchwork. And that lambie-squeal is there too. Even after oiling everything including the motor thrust bearings, it still screeches at medium speed, smooths out a bit above 12 o'clock on the throttle. So why spend actual money on a notorious piece of junk? Why for the fun, of course. Not a whole lot at stake here. This 55-year old Tawzic will never be Superfleet, and even if I get it running, it's not likely to see a lot of action. But it does have a heartwarming presence here on the bench next to its little brother - the all metal Mantua Shifter that arrived Monday. That little sucker already burned the palm of my hand throwing what felt like a hot ember off the motor. Runs extremely hot, I suspect the motor magnet is weak, another common problem for vintage stuff. Especially if somebody ever tries to run it with a Lionel transformer :-) Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18623	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words

I'd rather be lucky than good... no cussing and I got the little guy running. Surprisingly well. The screech went away when I lubed the motor's rear bearing. Cleaned up the wheels, made a new drawbar, and it's running back and forth on my test track. It's not a Mizuno or a Tenshodo or even a Mantua, but... decent. I wonder how many of those metal freight cars it will pull. Actually if it will pull three John English metal "Day Coaches", I'd be very pleased. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18624	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments]

Jim, Best of luck with your new bronze Walthers HH660. I know you'll turn it into a gem. Ray F.W,</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18625	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words

Hi Andy, I built a couple of those way back when - heavy as the dickens and out of round/ out of quarter drivers were common. I may even have a couple of main rods in my parts box. I rebuilt the valvegear on one using brass stock and it worked fine. Put an MDC short vande behind one for a little variety. It was a fairly decent puller for it's day, if you got good at building it. Wasn't that supposed to be a ATSF model? "Death Valley Scotty" comes to mind when I see that loco. I think one of the last "new" kits that I saw had a Sagami open frame 5 pole motor instead of the older MDC motor. Jake Bechtel On 3/15/12, greendoddz <greendoddz@...> wrote: > I just received this in the mail today: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/350539298474 > > My dad had one of these - one of four steam locos he had when I was little, > and #3 in the size department. I think he must have bought the first kit > off the production line. The driver castings weren't even round. He ended > up getting those replaced. I do have memories of it running, and it made a > very distinctive, scratchy growling sound that sounded like > "tawza-tawza-tawza" That's when it wasn't howling and squealing. > > Whenever dad decided to "fix" the Tawzic as we called it, I was sure to > learn some new words I wasn't supposed to repeat around mommy. It had some > rather prototypical Atlantic problems, excessive pitch and yaw conspired to > make it pop wheelies and then come down with the lead driver cocked off the > rail. But the best was once when he tinkered with it for the better part of > an hour, stuck it on the track and it screeched like a baby lamb being > branded with a hot iron. I actually thought dad had installed a working > whistle in it, but before I could say a word he yanked it off the track in a > flurry of cuss words and threw it in the workbench drawer where it probably > stayed another 6 months. I thought it was pretty funny. He didn't think it > was funny nor did he think it was funny that I thought it was funny :-) > > I bought this not because I need to learn any new words, but, well, because > it's fun. I am not expecting much from it. In fact, it has already > exceeded expectations. It's missing the right side valve gear, but still > has the main rod. I hooked the alligator clips up and applied power and it > moved half a turn and then jammed - oh yeah, the valve gear doesn't like > being upside down. Backed it off and held it right side up... and the > little sucker runs! The trademark "tawza" sound is there but not that > prominent without the reinforcement of wood roadbed on plywood benchwork. > And that lambie-squeal is there too. Even after oiling everything including > the motor thrust bearings, it still screeches at medium speed, smooths out a > bit above 12 o'clock on the throttle. > > So why spend actual money on a notorious piece of junk? Why for the fun, of > course. Not a whole lot at stake here. This 55-year old Tawzic will never > be Superfleet, and even if I get it running, it's not likely to see a lot of > action. But it does have a heartwarming presence here on the bench next to > its little brother - the all metal Mantua Shifter that arrived Monday. That > little sucker already burned the palm of my hand throwing what felt like a > hot ember off the motor. Runs extremely hot, I suspect the motor magnet is > weak, another common problem for vintage stuff. Especially if somebody ever > tries to run it with a Lionel transformer :-) > > Andy > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18626	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

Saw a lead HH660 on E Bay last night for a pretty reasonable price.  Body shell only, or so it appeared. John B. Allyn From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:21:02 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660   Got a pair of Walthers 4 wheel coach trucks hanging around? It appears to me, on my later HH660, at least, that the truck sideframes are very similar to the sideframes of early Walthers 4 wheel coach trucks. The top horizontal bar (Whatever it may be called) is trimmed down, but a file or Dremel tool makes short work of that. Sadly, my HH660 fell apart when I moved in 2010, and I've never fixed it back up. I ended up putting two power trucks in mine, using John English ALCO power trucks I salvaged from a badly deteriorating unit I got at Trainfest one year. Got the unit for $5 as the body was rotted pretty bad, but the power trucks were good. That operation did require a lot of work to get the English truck to mount properly in the Walthers body. The power trucks ended up being mongrels of both Walthers and English parts. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/14/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:29 PM   Jim W, Jay W, All I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and mostly all the handrails will need work. I'll know better when I clean it up. It has the original Walthers 6 volt motor that does run but I don't know how. If you look at a close up you will see the brushes are only riding on about the front third of the armature. I will have to try to move the brushes to A BETTER POSITION SOME HOW.. The O ring needed for the drive is minor. The side frames for the front dummy wheels will be a problem. I'll try to find them but if that fails I have matching side frames and will have a little creating to do. Needless to say this is a PROJECT that will require some time. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18627	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

While it won't happen over night I will eventually get it done. I love to tackle these type of rebuilds while trying to get all original parts needed. I wish I took more before and after pictures but I have enough to do. If you click on attachments you will find a Conover 2-10-2 I am rebuilding as I find parts. I need 6 volt motor and valve gear to complete and although I could use similar parts I will wait. Same with pre war Mantua Consolidation where I needed a large Mantua 6 volt motor.       If you would really like to see a before basket case of  parts I bought off eBay ( not all the same company ) made into a completed  fantasy engine go into attachments 3rd row down, 1st pictures (2) called Before and After March 1st you can see I will tackle things just as I will this  Walthers HH660. First thing is to see if brake fluid will remove paint or will I need a stripper while looking through parts to see if I have front truck side frames.    I love this type of challenge while saving a vintage pre war engine from the scrape heap. This is my "area" of HO. A vintage collection with many items rebuilt to original while learning the past history .                                              Jim, H On 3/15/2012 2:12 AM, greendoddz wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot > of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and > mostly all the handrails will need work. You have more guts than I have to tackle that thing... a true "blacksmith" kit. Good luck and I will be following your progress with interest. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18628	From: ford35lh	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Champ decals

Did anyone purchase the model railroad inventory that Champ had when they closed ??? ford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18629	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Champ decals

Not that I've heard.  I always liked Champ and have a supply that should last long after I'm gone.  The problem with Champ -- particularly the sets that were set up by Max Gray in the 40's and early 50's -- was that they were for "HO/OO" scale and thus were a little oversize for HO.  Their later set-ups (by Rich Mayer) were true HO scale.    Ford -- if you need a particular set let me know off post as I may have it.  John B. Allyn From: "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:07:27 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Champ decals   Did anyone purchase the model railroad inventory that Champ had when they closed ??? ford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18630	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words

>Wasn't that supposed to be a ATSF > model? "Death Valley Scotty" comes to mind when I see that loco. This is it right here: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SF1483.JPG The MDC model captures the essence nicely - it's not likely to be mistaken for anything else. That huge notch over the rear driver is actually almost dead center on the locomotive. The forward driver is almost hidden by the thick valve gear, so it has the appearance of being a 4-2-2. And it always reminded me of this car: http://www.gp30.com/NewportCarShow2009/Newport2009-115.jpg I guess it's the high wheel well that connects the two... but both have a degree of ethnicity and homeliness that has a certain charm. Re: Scotty... I googled him. Story of a record breaking L.A. - CHI run in 1905, but no pictures or specifics about the locomotive. > think one of the last "new" kits that I saw had a Sagami open frame >5 pole motor instead of the older MDC motor. The last MDC steamer I bought was a 4-6-0 kit in the 1970s. It had a 2-stage reduction gear that allowed the motor to be mounted almost straight on the horizontal. Noisy little thing. I never finished it and I'm pretty sure I ebayed it a while ago. I deliberately sought the old all-metal version for my vintage collection though. MDC also made a 2-6-2 using the same boiler and tender shell - that one is harder to come by. They made a lot of changes by the time they were combo metal/plastic kits. I don't know if they ever did a plastic version of the ATSF Atlantic. The PRR version seems a lot more common. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18631	From: takefive247	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18632	From: Nelson	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

I know how you feel, Jim. It's fun to work on this stuff and see how the models and drives evolved. I see what you mean about the brushes... they're more than half off the end of the commutator. To reposition them you'd have to grind the top pole piece narrower. That's quite a design mistake. Aside from the square magnet, it reminds me of the first AF DC motor. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > While it won't happen over night I will eventually get it done. I > love to tackle these type of rebuilds while trying to get all original > parts needed. I wish I took more before and after pictures but I have > enough to do. If you click on attachments you will find a Conover 2-10-2 > I am rebuilding as I find parts. I need 6 volt motor and valve gear to > complete and although I could use similar parts I will wait. Same with > pre war Mantua Consolidation where I needed a large Mantua 6 volt motor. > > If you would really like to see a before basket case of parts I > bought off eBay ( not all the same company ) made into a completed > fantasy engine go into attachments 3rd row down, 1st pictures (2) called > Before and After March 1st you can see I will tackle things just as I > will this Walthers HH660. First thing is to see if brake fluid will > remove paint or will I need a stripper while looking through parts to > see if I have front truck side frames. > > I love this type of challenge while saving a vintage pre war engine > from the scrape heap. This is my "area" of HO. A vintage collection with > many items rebuilt to original while learning the past history . > > Jim, H > > > > On 3/15/2012 2:12 AM, greendoddz wrote: > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot > > > of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and > > > mostly all the handrails will need work. > > > > You have more guts than I have to tackle that thing... a true > > "blacksmith" kit. Good luck and I will be following your progress with > > interest. > > > > Andy > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18633	From: Nelson	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words

Nice loco, Andy. You certainly didn't break the bank on this one. If I'd seen this auction I might have sprung for it too, because I love Atlantics. It does look like the whole thing is balanced over the rear drivers. This couldn't have been any worse than the Aristo-Craft / New One stuff, tho. I have one of their 0-8-0's that was a nightmare to get running right, and still waddles due to out-of-round drivers. Great story, too. It sounds like you had better luck than your dad. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I just received this in the mail today: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/350539298474 > > My dad had one of these - one of four steam locos he had when I was little, and #3 in the size department. I think he must have bought the first kit off the production line. The driver castings weren't even round. He ended up getting those replaced. I do have memories of it running, and it made a very distinctive, scratchy growling sound that sounded like "tawza-tawza-tawza" That's when it wasn't howling and squealing. > > Whenever dad decided to "fix" the Tawzic as we called it, I was sure to learn some new words I wasn't supposed to repeat around mommy. It had some rather prototypical Atlantic problems, excessive pitch and yaw conspired to make it pop wheelies and then come down with the lead driver cocked off the rail. But the best was once when he tinkered with it for the better part of an hour, stuck it on the track and it screeched like a baby lamb being branded with a hot iron. I actually thought dad had installed a working whistle in it, but before I could say a word he yanked it off the track in a flurry of cuss words and threw it in the workbench drawer where it probably stayed another 6 months. I thought it was pretty funny. He didn't think it was funny nor did he think it was funny that I thought it was funny :-) > > I bought this not because I need to learn any new words, but, well, because it's fun. I am not expecting much from it. In fact, it has already exceeded expectations. It's missing the right side valve gear, but still has the main rod. I hooked the alligator clips up and applied power and it moved half a turn and then jammed - oh yeah, the valve gear doesn't like being upside down. Backed it off and held it right side up... and the little sucker runs! The trademark "tawza" sound is there but not that prominent without the reinforcement of wood roadbed on plywood benchwork. And that lambie-squeal is there too. Even after oiling everything including the motor thrust bearings, it still screeches at medium speed, smooths out a bit above 12 o'clock on the throttle. > > So why spend actual money on a notorious piece of junk? Why for the fun, of course. Not a whole lot at stake here. This 55-year old Tawzic will never be Superfleet, and even if I get it running, it's not likely to see a lot of action. But it does have a heartwarming presence here on the bench next to its little brother - the all metal Mantua Shifter that arrived Monday. That little sucker already burned the palm of my hand throwing what felt like a hot ember off the motor. Runs extremely hot, I suspect the motor magnet is weak, another common problem for vintage stuff. Especially if somebody ever tries to run it with a Lionel transformer :-) > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18634	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words

That is an old version -- brass tires.  Always wondered whether it was three feet higher off of the frame than it should be.  Kennesaw Trains in Atlanta had a very well done rebuild of one of these on display some years ago -- looked lower and may have ahd a valve gear redo.  Lots of new detail parts too.  Good luck on this! John B. Allyn From: "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:09:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: How I Learned Cuss Words   Nice loco, Andy. You certainly didn't break the bank on this one. If I'd seen this auction I might have sprung for it too, because I love Atlantics. It does look like the whole thing is balanced over the rear drivers. This couldn't have been any worse than the Aristo-Craft / New One stuff, tho. I have one of their 0-8-0's that was a nightmare to get running right, and still waddles due to out-of-round drivers. Great story, too. It sounds like you had better luck than your dad. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > I just received this in the mail today: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/350539298474 > > My dad had one of these - one of four steam locos he had when I was little, and #3 in the size department. I think he must have bought the first kit off the production line. The driver castings weren't even round. He ended up getting those replaced. I do have memories of it running, and it made a very distinctive, scratchy growling sound that sounded like "tawza-tawza-tawza" That's when it wasn't howling and squealing. > > Whenever dad decided to "fix" the Tawzic as we called it, I was sure to learn some new words I wasn't supposed to repeat around mommy. It had some rather prototypical Atlantic problems, excessive pitch and yaw conspired to make it pop wheelies and then come down with the lead driver cocked off the rail. But the best was once when he tinkered with it for the better part of an hour, stuck it on the track and it screeched like a baby lamb being branded with a hot iron. I actually thought dad had installed a working whistle in it, but before I could say a word he yanked it off the track in a flurry of cuss words and threw it in the workbench drawer where it probably stayed another 6 months. I thought it was pretty funny. He didn't think it was funny nor did he think it was funny that I thought it was funny :-) > > I bought this not because I need to learn any new words, but, well, because it's fun. I am not expecting much from it. In fact, it has already exceeded expectations. It's missing the right side valve gear, but still has the main rod. I hooked the alligator clips up and applied power and it moved half a turn and then jammed - oh yeah, the valve gear doesn't like being upside down. Backed it off and held it right side up... and the little sucker runs! The trademark "tawza" sound is there but not that prominent without the reinforcement of wood roadbed on plywood benchwork. And that lambie-squeal is there too. Even after oiling everything including the motor thrust bearings, it still screeches at medium speed, smooths out a bit above 12 o'clock on the throttle. > > So why spend actual money on a notorious piece of junk? Why for the fun, of course. Not a whole lot at stake here. This 55-year old Tawzic will never be Superfleet, and even if I get it running, it's not likely to see a lot of action. But it does have a heartwarming presence here on the bench next to its little brother - the all metal Mantua Shifter that arrived Monday. That little sucker already burned the palm of my hand throwing what felt like a hot ember off the motor. Runs extremely hot, I suspect the motor magnet is weak, another common problem for vintage stuff. Especially if somebody ever tries to run it with a Lionel transformer :-) > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18635	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

And if nothing good comes of your rebuild you can always use the shell as a weapon!  Bronze knuckles . . . John B. Allyn From: "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:57:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers HH660   I know how you feel, Jim. It's fun to work on this stuff and see how the models and drives evolved. I see what you mean about the brushes... they're more than half off the end of the commutator. To reposition them you'd have to grind the top pole piece narrower. That's quite a design mistake. Aside from the square magnet, it reminds me of the first AF DC motor. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > While it won't happen over night I will eventually get it done. I > love to tackle these type of rebuilds while trying to get all original > parts needed. I wish I took more before and after pictures but I have > enough to do. If you click on attachments you will find a Conover 2-10-2 > I am rebuilding as I find parts. I need 6 volt motor and valve gear to > complete and although I could use similar parts I will wait. Same with > pre war Mantua Consolidation where I needed a large Mantua 6 volt motor. > > If you would really like to see a before basket case of parts I > bought off eBay ( not all the same company ) made into a completed > fantasy engine go into attachments 3rd row down, 1st pictures (2) called > Before and After March 1st you can see I will tackle things just as I > will this Walthers HH660. First thing is to see if brake fluid will > remove paint or will I need a stripper while looking through parts to > see if I have front truck side frames. > > I love this type of challenge while saving a vintage pre war engine > from the scrape heap. This is my "area" of HO. A vintage collection with > many items rebuilt to original while learning the past history . > > Jim, H > > > > On 3/15/2012 2:12 AM, greendoddz wrote: > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot > > > of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and > > > mostly all the handrails will need work. > > > > You have more guts than I have to tackle that thing... a true > > "blacksmith" kit. Good luck and I will be following your progress with > > interest. > > > > Andy > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18636	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

The early generation-- Reading type--brass boiler had a small tender with 4-wheel trucks,, the die cast ones (B&O? had a larger tender with 6-w trucks. gj -----Original Message----- From: takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:32 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? Bill ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18637	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with two four wheel trucks. The earliest version of the Mikado, Die Cast... had the long haul tender with four wheel trucks, later changed to six wheel trucks like the Pacific.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18638	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

Thanks. I found the listing. I do have all the pieces to my shell, and even had the locomotive running quite well at one point. When I moved in 2010, it was rather sudden (Violent drunk landlord became unmanageable, and I had to move for my safety more than anything), so much of my collection was not properly secured for moving. Factor in that I do IT support for a disadvantaged youth program, and they let me use their members (Mostly young adults, but none had a clue about fragile model trains and how to handle them) to move, and it was a total disaster. On the other hand, soon I should have a lot of time to fix up my HH-660. Went to Illinois Bone and Joint today to have my knee looked at. Been feeling like bone on bone grinding. Doctor is 90% sure that I will need knee surgery soon, but I am having an MRI done on it early next week to know for sure. Surgery will probably put me out of service for two weeks or more. I own a computer store here in Waukegan, and I would be unable to do my work, so would stay home for that time. Glad I got a stockpile of projects for such an event! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 3/15/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 15, 2012, 8:43 AM   Saw a lead HH660 on E Bay last night for a pretty reasonable price.  Body shell only, or so it appeared. John B. Allyn From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:21:02 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660   Got a pair of Walthers 4 wheel coach trucks hanging around? It appears to me, on my later HH660, at least, that the truck sideframes are very similar to the sideframes of early Walthers 4 wheel coach trucks. The top horizontal bar (Whatever it may be called) is trimmed down, but a file or Dremel tool makes short work of that. Sadly, my HH660 fell apart when I moved in 2010, and I've never fixed it back up. I ended up putting two power trucks in mine, using John English ALCO power trucks I salvaged from a badly deteriorating unit I got at Trainfest one year. Got the unit for $5 as the body was rotted pretty bad, but the power trucks were good. That operation did require a lot of work to get the English truck to mount properly in the Walthers body. The power trucks ended up being mongrels of both Walthers and English parts. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/14/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 [5 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:29 PM   Jim W, Jay W, All I received that Walthers Bronze HH660 today. Going to have a lot of work. Just about all the steps (front and back), the side steps and mostly all the handrails will need work. I'll know better when I clean it up. It has the original Walthers 6 volt motor that does run but I don't know how. If you look at a close up you will see the brushes are only riding on about the front third of the armature. I will have to try to move the brushes to A BETTER POSITION SOME HOW.. The O ring needed for the drive is minor. The side frames for the front dummy wheels will be a problem. I'll try to find them but if that fails I have matching side frames and will have a little creating to do. Needless to say this is a PROJECT that will require some time. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18639	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with two four wheel trucks. I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's for sure. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18640	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

The early Mantua steamers I have seen all had sheet brass boilers--not cast bronze. They were Reading prototypes with the wide Wooten fireboxes to contain the motors then available. Pacific, Atlantic, and Consolidation. gj -----Original Message----- From: greendoddz Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:16 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with > two four wheel trucks. I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's for sure. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18641	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Thanks guys, I have one Pacific with the small tender, shell and frame only, with an early locomotive. (Brass, Bronze???). The Loco looks to be a kit. I also have what looks like the same vintage, and size engine (Brass-Die cast???) but factory built/painted, unlettered, with the larger long haul tender. Ton of detail. And a third with different detailing and different shorter cab with long hail tender. But all my others are shorter boiler, less detail and plastic tenders. I don't believe the sheet brass boiler would be Mantua, would they? Maybe home made or kit bashed with Mantua mechanisms. What is the difference between the Reading and the B&O type. Is there a time frame for all the change? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18642	From: John H	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Any possibility you could post some photos? It would seem you have a variety of shells on some Mautua drives. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Thanks guys, > I have one Pacific with the small tender, shell and frame only, with an early locomotive. > (Brass, Bronze???). The Loco looks to be a kit. I also have what looks like the same > vintage, and size engine (Brass-Die cast???) but factory built/painted, unlettered, with the > larger long haul tender. Ton of detail. And a third with different detailing and different > shorter cab with long hail tender. But all my others are shorter boiler, less detail and > plastic tenders. > > I don't believe the sheet brass boiler would be Mantua, would they? Maybe home made > or kit bashed with Mantua mechanisms. What is the difference between the Reading and the > B&O type. Is there a time frame for all the change? > > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > Bill > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18643	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Yes, I have seen photos of these in early 1940's Model railroader magazine.  These were definitely sheet brass boilers with wide fireboxes.  Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:21:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   The early Mantua steamers I have seen all had sheet brass boilers--not cast bronze. They were Reading prototypes with the wide Wooten fireboxes to contain the motors then available. Pacific, Atlantic, and Consolidation. gj -----Original Message----- From: greendoddz Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:16 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with > two four wheel trucks. I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's for sure. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18644	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

I once had a Mantua Reading Atlantic and a Mantua Reading Pacific, inherited from my uncle.  They were made of formed brass sheet and made pretty good looking models.  these two also ran quite well, though that may have been due to my uncle's efforts rather than the engines' designs.  The WIDE firebox was needed for the motors of the time.  They both had tenders with four wheel trucks.  I think that these two went out of production in the late 40's.  I EBay'd mine some eyars ago.    I don't think that Mantua made a Reading Consolidation but I could be wrong.  Varney definitely did.  It had an extremely heavy lead boiler and the Varney totally enclosed V-2 (I think that's what it was called) motor, about which my uncle said "you either swore by them or swore at them."    The other Pacific that Glenn describes sounds like the diecast Mantua Pacific, loosely based on the B&O President class.  I think that this always had a diecast tender with six wheel trucks. John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:26:40 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   Yes, I have seen photos of these in early 1940's Model railroader magazine.  These were definitely sheet brass boilers with wide fireboxes.  Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:21:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   The early Mantua steamers I have seen all had sheet brass boilers--not cast bronze. They were Reading prototypes with the wide Wooten fireboxes to contain the motors then available. Pacific, Atlantic, and Consolidation. gj -----Original Message----- From: greendoddz Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:16 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with > two four wheel trucks. I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's for sure. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18645	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

I checked further and Mantua did have a sheet brass Reading Consolidation.  Here is a link to a nice article on this era in Mantua's history:   http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp   Now that I think of it, both Varney and Mantua released Reading Consolidations at about the same time in the late 1930's, and mutual consternation ensued.  Legend has it that Gordon Varney vowed that he would never again make a model of a specific prototype steam locomotive which explains his more or less freelance engines of the 40's and 50's.  Mantua went freelance too, with the exception of the Reading Goat  0-4-0 camelback. John B. Allyn From: "john allyn" <john.allyn@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:42:28 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   I once had a Mantua Reading Atlantic and a Mantua Reading Pacific, inherited from my uncle.  They were made of formed brass sheet and made pretty good looking models.  these two also ran quite well, though that may have been due to my uncle's efforts rather than the engines' designs.  The WIDE firebox was needed for the motors of the time.  They both had tenders with four wheel trucks.  I think that these two went out of production in the late 40's.  I EBay'd mine some eyars ago.    I don't think that Mantua made a Reading Consolidation but I could be wrong.  Varney definitely did.  It had an extremely heavy lead boiler and the Varney totally enclosed V-2 (I think that's what it was called) motor, about which my uncle said "you either swore by them or swore at them."    The other Pacific that Glenn describes sounds like the diecast Mantua Pacific, loosely based on the B&O President class.  I think that this always had a diecast tender with six wheel trucks. John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:26:40 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   Yes, I have seen photos of these in early 1940's Model railroader magazine.  These were definitely sheet brass boilers with wide fireboxes.  Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:21:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   The early Mantua steamers I have seen all had sheet brass boilers--not cast bronze. They were Reading prototypes with the wide Wooten fireboxes to contain the motors then available. Pacific, Atlantic, and Consolidation. gj -----Original Message----- From: greendoddz Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:16 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with > two four wheel trucks. I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's for sure. Andy ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18646	From: Alan	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: early athearn tank car

There is an early athearn mobil tank car on e-bay (item #130665341234) that is incomplete some one may want the tank and trucks from it. Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18647	From: Bill W	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Bill, Mantua produced a Reading Consolidation, Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific before WWII. The locomotives consisted of a cast bronze boiler and a 6 volt motor. They also produced a brass tender for the Reading locomotives. Post WWII, Mantua offered a Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific. The steam locos have stamped brass boilers and 12 volt motors. The brass tender was replaced with a zamac version.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18648	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

John, I have that article. In fact I have the MR 1984 issue that the original article was in. I don't see where it mentions a sheet brass boiler. I could be wrong. Are you seeing it somewhere I have missed?Were the ones you've seen really a Mantua boiler? These are things I am trying to figure out. I downloaded photos in Bill's Mantua. I need to work on my photography. Photo #1 I believe to be brass with small tender. Wheels under tender are not the right ones. Photo #2 seems to be the same motor and mechanism but the similarity ends there. The tender is plastic. Photo # 3 is the die cast boiler. Shorter then #1 & 2 and same as #4. But it has the open bottom die cast tender.I would think should be with #2. Photo #4 is die cast with plastic tender. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > I checked further and Mantua did have a sheet brass Reading Consolidation.  Here is a link to a nice article on this era in Mantua's history: > > > > http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp > > > > Now that I think of it, both Varney and Mantua released Reading Consolidations at about the same time in the late 1930's, and mutual consternation ensued .  Legend has it that G ordon Varney vowed that he would never again make a model of a specific prototype steam locomotive which explains his more or less freelance engines of the 40's and 50's.  Mantua went freelance too, with the exception of the Reading G oat   0-4-0 camelback. > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "john allyn" <john.allyn@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Cc: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:42:28 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > >   > > > > > > > > I once had a Mantua Reading Atlantic and a Mantua Reading Pacific, inherited from my uncle.  They were made of formed brass sheet and made pretty good looking models.  these two also ran quite well, though that may have been due to my uncle's efforts rather than the engines' designs.  The WIDE firebox was needed for the motors of the time.  They both had tenders with four wheel trucks.  I think that these two went out of production in the late 40's.  I EBay'd mine some eyars ago.  > >   > > I don't think that Mantua made a Reading Consolidation but I could be wrong.  Varney definitely did.  It had an extremely heavy lead boiler and the Varney totally enclosed V-2 (I think that's what it was called) motor, about which my uncle said "you either swore by them or swore at them."  > >   > > The other Pacific that Glenn describes sounds like the diecast Mantua Pacific, loosely based on the B&O President class.  I think that this always had a diecast tender with six wheel trucks. > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:26:40 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > >   > > > > > > Yes, I have seen photos of these in early 1940's Model railroader magazine.  These were definitely sheet brass boilers with wide fireboxes.  > Regards,  > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: glenn476@... > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:21:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > >   > > > The early Mantua steamers I have seen all had sheet brass boilers--not cast > bronze. They were Reading prototypes with the wide Wooten fireboxes to > contain the motors then available. Pacific, Atlantic, and Consolidation. > gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: greendoddz > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:16 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@ wrote: > > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with > > two four wheel trucks. > > I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. > It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's > for sure. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18649	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Bill Then what I think I have in photo #1 is pre war Mantua. But it'a really heavy.??? What is photo #2? Also looks the same from the bottom but different shaoe boiler. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill W" <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > Mantua produced a Reading Consolidation, Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific before WWII. The locomotives consisted of a cast bronze boiler and a 6 volt motor. They also produced a brass tender for the Reading locomotives. Post WWII, Mantua offered a Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific. The steam locos have stamped brass boilers and 12 volt motors. The brass tender was replaced with a zamac version. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18650	From: Glenn	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Somewhere out there is a long answer that just disappeared--trying again. I have pre-war Mantua Pacific and Consolidation built by the late Richard Stokes of California. The boilers are very smooth--not what you would expect of a sand-cast boiler. The metal over the firebox, where an edge can be seen, seems thin. Somewhere I have an unfinished Atlantic--I think I got it from the Mustang guy. All of the early Mantua steamers I have encountered have had Zamak frames, cylinders, ans amokebox fronts, with sheet brass boilers and cabs. These are not good to determine the tenders as the builder built SP tenders for them . I do have a die cast Mantua tender from that era. Perhaps someone has a catalog or instruction sheet. gj -----Original Message----- From: takefive247 Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 10:15 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. Bill Then what I think I have in photo #1 is pre war Mantua. But it'a really heavy.??? What is photo #2? Also looks the same from the bottom but different shaoe boiler. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill W" <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > Mantua produced a Reading Consolidation, Reading Atlantic and a Reading > Pacific before WWII. The locomotives consisted of a cast bronze boiler > and a 6 volt motor. They also produced a brass tender for the Reading > locomotives. Post WWII, Mantua offered a Reading Atlantic and a Reading > Pacific. The steam locos have stamped brass boilers and 12 volt motors. > The brass tender was replaced with a zamac version. > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18651	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Bill -- The two "Reading Pacifics" in the photo set are quite different.  The cab and boiler seem the same but the details are vastly different.  The domes, for example.  And while one has twin "single lung" air compressors, the other has a Westinghouse compressor in the same place.  Maybe some early effort at superdetailing?    I could be wrong about the sheet brass construction too.  Mantua's other locomotives in the immediate postwar era -- the Goat, the Belle of the '80's, the 8-Ball Mogul, the Busy Bee -- were sheet brass superstructures and die cast frames and tenders.  That's where my confusion may come from.  My uncle was active in the hobby from the late 30's until his death in the 80's so his engines could have been either prewar or postwar.    The long diecast tender is from the diecast Pacific introduced around 1950.  I think that the plastic tender was was a realtively recent Tyco product based on the original Mantua dies.    The short tender with the six wheel trucks is quite interesting.  I'm willing to bet that the original trucks disintegrated due to impurities in the early zinc alloy.  Is the body sheet metal?   John B. Allyn From: "takefive247" <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:55:14 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   John, I have that article. In fact I have the MR 1984 issue that the original article was in. I don't see where it mentions a sheet brass boiler. I could be wrong. Are you seeing it somewhere I have missed?Were the ones you've seen really a Mantua boiler? These are things I am trying to figure out. I downloaded photos in Bill's Mantua. I need to work on my photography. Photo #1 I believe to be brass with small tender. Wheels under tender are not the right ones. Photo #2 seems to be the same motor and mechanism but the similarity ends there. The tender is plastic. Photo # 3 is the die cast boiler. Shorter then #1 & 2 and same as #4. But it has the open bottom die cast tender.I would think should be with #2. Photo #4 is die cast with plastic tender. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > I checked further and Mantua did have a sheet brass Reading Consolidation.  Here is a link to a nice article on this era in Mantua's history: > > > > http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp > > > > Now that I think of it, both Varney and Mantua released Reading Consolidations at about the same time in the late 1930's, and mutual consternation ensued .  Legend has it that G ordon Varney vowed that he would never again make a model of a specific prototype steam locomotive which explains his more or less freelance engines of the 40's and 50's.  Mantua went freelance too, with the exception of the Reading G oat   0-4-0 camelback. > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "john allyn" <john.allyn@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Cc: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:42:28 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > >   > > > > > > > > I once had a Mantua Reading Atlantic and a Mantua Reading Pacific, inherited from my uncle.  They were made of formed brass sheet and made pretty good looking models.  these two also ran quite well, though that may have been due to my uncle's efforts rather than the engines' designs.  The WIDE firebox was needed for the motors of the time.  They both had tenders with four wheel trucks.  I think that these two went out of production in the late 40's.  I EBay'd mine some eyars ago.  > >   > > I don't think that Mantua made a Reading Consolidation but I could be wrong.  Varney definitely did.  It had an extremely heavy lead boiler and the Varney totally enclosed V-2 (I think that's what it was called) motor, about which my uncle said "you either swore by them or swore at them."  > >   > > The other Pacific that Glenn describes sounds like the diecast Mantua Pacific, loosely based on the B&O President class.  I think that this always had a diecast tender with six wheel trucks. > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:26:40 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > >   > > > > > > Yes, I have seen photos of these in early 1940's Model railroader magazine.  These were definitely sheet brass boilers with wide fireboxes.  > Regards,  > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: glenn476@... > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:21:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > >   > > > The early Mantua steamers I have seen all had sheet brass boilers--not cast > bronze. They were Reading prototypes with the wide Wooten fireboxes to > contain the motors then available. Pacific, Atlantic, and Consolidation. > gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: greendoddz > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:16 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups1com, MRLENGAL2U@ wrote: > > The Reading Pacific, Cast Bronze Boiler... had a small four tender with > > two four wheel trucks. > > I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh... er in the metal. > It's a whole lot harder to come by than the diecast Mikes and Pacs that's > for sure. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18652	From: John H	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

The heavy Pacific in #1 would be a prewar model with the cast bronze boiler. The tender may be the one what came with it but has different trucks. Photo 2 would be the post war Pacific of the same design but with the sheet brass boiler. I'm going by the weight as the two were very similar to begin with. And the #2 has a later tender than it originally came with. #3 & #4 are both diecast Pacific's that were introduced in 1953. There were several changes to the die cast model but nothing that changed the appearance until the post Tyco, Mantua days when they began mixing boilers, tenders and what not to expand the line with minimal investment. Heck, even today's Model Power, Chinese built Pacific's look the mostly the same. The original diecast models differed from subsequent versions in several ways. The DC71 motor that filled the cab and used a separate drive shaft to the worm that was in its own housing with self aligning bears was replaced with a DC60 size motor with the worm mounted directly on the motor shaft. I believe the new motor was built in-house. Probably the reason I never bothered to find out is all the Mikado's (Both the Mikado and the Pacific used the same motor and worm set-up through the years) I have purchased were the early style motor and drive except for one I got because it was very nicely detailed by the previous owner. If I ever get serious about running it I just swap the mechanism. And the diecast cab and tender bodies were changed to plastic about or at the same time the motors and worms were changed. This goes way back to the mid-fifties or so. After that, no changes occurred until, as a Tyco product, the frame lost its replaceable axle bearing inserts. But none of these changes affected the outward appearance. For some reason I never purchased a Pacific even though I'm a big fan of B&O steam. And, if you find photos of just the right President class B&O pacific the Mantua model looks very much like it. About the only obvious change from a couple of feet away is the cab. But you do have to find the right one. As originally built the prototype looks rather different. These things did go through several shoppings and updates but photos are out there and not all that hard to find. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Bill > Then what I think I have in photo #1 is pre war Mantua. But it'a really heavy.??? What is photo #2? Also looks the same from the bottom but different shaoe boiler. > > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill W" <hmbb56@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua produced a Reading Consolidation, Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific before WWII. The locomotives consisted of a cast bronze boiler and a 6 volt motor. They also produced a brass tender for the Reading locomotives. Post WWII, Mantua offered a Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific. The steam locos have stamped brass boilers and 12 volt motors. The brass tender was replaced with a zamac version. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18653	From: william witte	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

From the 1937 Mantua cataogue, page 20,        "This Mechanism is built on a piece of 3/8" x 1/2" Brass Channel"  Quote is referring to the Consolidation Mecanism.   Page 22,  "The Cylinder Unit and Pilot are sand castings of Bronze and are cleaner than many Die-Castings."   From  the 1938 Mantua catalogue, page 22,      "BOILER, CLYLINDRS, PILOT, etc., are cast BRONZE, and in the case of the KITS, you can solder, or machine them to add the super-detail you may wish.     Cab is built from hard Brass, and is fastened securely to the boiler unit."   The die cast zamac frames are Post War II.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18654	From: Glenn	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

That’s interesting.  I don’t want to take my  locos apart—tapping a fingernaIL on the boilers they do feel a bit more substantial than the boilers on the Belle and Mogul—but as you quote,” . . . cleaner than many die castings” –these are definitely that.  gj   From: william witte Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   From the 1937 Mantua cataogue, page 20,        "This Mechanism is built on a piece of 3/8" x 1/2" Brass Channel"  Quote is referring to the Consolidation Mecanism.   Page 22,  "The Cylinder Unit and Pilot are sand castings of Bronze and are cleaner than many Die-Castings."   From  the 1938 Mantua catalogue, page 22,      "BOILER, CLYLINDRS, PILOT, etc., are cast BRONZE, and in the case of the KITS, you can solder, or machine them to add the super-detail you may wish.     Cab is built from hard Brass, and is fastened securely to the boiler unit."   The die cast zamac frames are Post War II.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18655	From: Wally Weart	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: A locomotive from my early days

Attachments : Penn Line diesel.jpg While gathering things which I want to sell, I "found" my Penn Line rubber band drive "Whitcomb".  I had forgotten about this but it was my second engine back in the very early 1950s after I had purchased a Varney Dockside. I put it on the track and it ran just fine, even after many years of inactivity. This is a keeper and it's going in my display case to remind me of my early modeling efforts. Now, if I only had my Dockside... Wally

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18656	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Pre war & post war Mantua engines

Attachments : IMG_7804-18656.JPG IMG_7802-18656.JPG IMG_7801-18656.JPG I will attempt to tell the Mantua pre war & 1st run Post War story but my finger might not last. . Mantua made a pre war Consolidation first and then pre war Atlantic & Pacific engines. These three engines and all the same tenders were made from sheet brass ( Mantua had no cast bronze boilers. You might be mixing the pre war Varney Consolidation,Pacific and Mikado which used the 6 volt V-1 motor by Varney which were cast bronze boilers. ) Now back to the Mantua pre war. The 3 engines I've cited, Consolidation,Pacific and Atlantic used the larger of Mantua's 6 volt motors .I have a pre war Mantua Consolidation I rebuilt. I don't have any of the large 6 volt motors but have sent pictures of the smaller 6 volt Mantua motor that was used in smaller type 0-4-0 engine ( Lil Goat ,Busy Bee, Mighty Mite., Belle of he 80's and 2-6-0 Mogul. ) One thing to keep in mind that due to the war Hybrid engines both pre and post war might be found using up parts but the number will be small. We are talking about the major runs. What year is actually is the dividing line for pre and post I'm not sure but you will find pew war engines like the Little Goat, Busy Bee Mighty Mite ,2-6-0 Mogul and Belle of the 80's with 6 volt motors and post war engines with 12 volt motors. Now on to post war Mantua Atlantic and Pacifics which used 12 volt motors. No Consolidations were made post war. While the boilers still remained sheet brass the roofs, domes and other detail parts became cast metal as did the tenders which were still the same style as pre war. The post war Atlantic and Pacific had a big change in the drive. The Motor, drive, gears and a driver were all one piece that you could take out and replace with a whole new unit. The frames were cast metal and had a large V in them when cast to accept this complete unit. I don't want to go to much farther but the first completely cast metal, engine & tender, was a post war 12 volt motor Mikado. It used a tender that looked like later tender that used three axle tender trucks but only had two axle tender trucks at first. Another oddity about this tender it had an open space instead of the later cast coal load. I didn't write everything about pre war and post war Mantua. Too many facts might cause trouble. If you want extra info go to www.HOseeker.net click on Literature and read the 1937 catalog I have there which might help. Then go back and click on Gallery and then Mantua Steam and Varney steam pictures that might also help. Hope this helps clarify some info. Hope I made no mistakes. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18657	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

John H. What are the years you would say for each of the four photos? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > The heavy Pacific in #1 would be a prewar model with the cast bronze boiler. The tender may be the one what came with it but has different trucks. > > Photo 2 would be the post war Pacific of the same design but with the sheet brass boiler. I'm going by the weight as the two were very similar to begin with. And the #2 has a later tender than it originally came with. > > #3 & #4 are both diecast Pacific's that were introduced in 1953. There were several changes to the die cast model but nothing that changed the appearance until the post Tyco, Mantua days when they began mixing boilers, tenders and what not to expand the line with minimal investment. Heck, even today's Model Power, Chinese built Pacific's look the mostly the same. > > The original diecast models differed from subsequent versions in several ways. The DC71 motor that filled the cab and used a separate drive shaft to the worm that was in its own housing with self aligning bears was replaced with a DC60 size motor with the worm mounted directly on the motor shaft. I believe the new motor was built in-house. Probably the reason I never bothered to find out is all the Mikado's (Both the Mikado and the Pacific used the same motor and worm set-up through the years) I have purchased were the early style motor and drive except for one I got because it was very nicely detailed by the previous owner. If I ever get serious about running it I just swap the mechanism. And the diecast cab and tender bodies were changed to plastic about or at the same time the motors and worms were changed. This goes way back to the mid-fifties or so. After that, no changes occurred until, as a Tyco product, the frame lost its replaceable axle bearing inserts. But none of these changes affected the outward appearance. For some reason I never purchased a Pacific even though I'm a big fan of B&O steam. And, if you find photos of just the right President class B&O pacific the Mantua model looks very much like it. About the only obvious change from a couple of feet away is the cab. But you do have to find the right one. As originally built the prototype looks rather different. These things did go through several shoppings and updates but photos are out there and not all that hard to find. > > > John Hagen > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > Bill > > Then what I think I have in photo #1 is pre war Mantua. But it'a really heavy.??? What is photo #2? Also looks the same from the bottom but different shaoe boiler. > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill W" <hmbb56@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Mantua produced a Reading Consolidation, Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific before WWII. The locomotives consisted of a cast bronze boiler and a 6 volt motor. They also produced a brass tender for the Reading locomotives. Post WWII, Mantua offered a Reading Atlantic and a Reading Pacific. The steam locos have stamped brass boilers and 12 volt motors. The brass tender was replaced with a zamac version. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18658	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Walthers HH 660

Attachments : IMG_7807-18658.JPG IMG_7806-18658.JPG IMG_7803-18658.JPG IMG_7802_1.JPG Andy ( greendoddz ), All You mentioned yesterday I have a real project on my hands and I agree. I took it all apart, stripped the paint with brake fluid which made it a little easier. I will be making all new handrail and stanchions from brass wire. I'm glad the previous builder drilled holes for these pieces. Again a plus and less work. I am in the process of cleaning old solder of the body and will be trying to take the rough areas of he castings which will take a while. Have the right size O ring from motor to drive truck. Trying to fix the motor that the brushes sit more in the middle will take some time. I sent a couple of right now pictures and in the one you will see two slightly different side frames. On the left is from the later cast lead Walthers HH 660 and the one on the right is for this first run. Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to rebuild ? Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18659	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

It doesn't say that in the 1940 catalog. Could they have already started to change due to the war coming? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > From the 1937 Mantua cataogue, page 20, >        "This Mechanism is built on a piece of 3/8" x 1/2" Brass Channel"  Quote is referring to the Consolidation Mecanism. >   > Page 22,  "The Cylinder Unit and Pilot are sand castings of Bronze and are cleaner than many Die-Castings." >   > From  the 1938 Mantua catalogue, page 22, >      "BOILER, CLYLINDRS, PILOT, etc., are cast BRONZE, and in the case of the KITS, you can solder, or machine them to add the super-detail you may wish.     Cab is built from hard Brass, and is fastened securely to the boiler unit." >   > The die cast zamac frames are Post War II. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18660	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: early athearn tank car

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <albyrno@...> wrote: > > There is an early athearn mobil tank car on e-bay (item #130665341234) > that is incomplete some one may want the tank and trucks from it. Arch bar trucks.... we were just talking about all the truck swaps on vintage stuff. This is the first time I've seen arch bars on an Athearn tank. I lost out bidding on the MIB Mobilgas unbuilt kit but I scored a really nice built one a couple weeks later. It actually ended up being about the cleanest of all of the vintage cars from this binge. It came with Athearn's sprung Bettendorf trucks and brass Mantua couplers. I put some vintage #4 Kadees on it and it's good to go. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18661	From: takefive247	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Thanks Guys, It's beginning to come together Please bear with me. I started collecting rather late in life. Got taken to many times on Ebay and I'm trying to digest all of this. The boilers in photo 1 & 2 may be different but I can't see how one is cast and one sheet brass. The edges that can be seen are thin but the shape, bends and corners seem to strong and smooth to be sheet metal. If anything the photo #1 looks more like sheet metal. #2 looks more like a cast. Also photo #1 has the white metal. Photo #2 is painted so I can't tell but the letters on the castings are different and also appear smoother. May have to take apart to see. In any case they seem to have the same motor. How would I tell if it is 6 volt. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > It doesn't say that in the 1940 catalog. Could they have already started to change due to the war coming? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@> wrote: > > > > From the 1937 Mantua cataogue, page 20, > >        "This Mechanism is built on a piece of 3/8" x 1/2" Brass Channel"  Quote is referring to the Consolidation Mecanism. > >   > > Page 22,  "The Cylinder Unit and Pilot are sand castings of Bronze and are cleaner than many Die-Castings." > >   > > From  the 1938 Mantua catalogue, page 22, > >      "BOILER, CLYLINDRS, PILOT, etc., are cast BRONZE, and in the case of the KITS, you can solder, or machine them to add the super-detail you may wish.     Cab is built from hard Brass, and is fastened securely to the boiler unit." > >   > > The die cast zamac frames are Post War II. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18662	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: How I Learned Cuss Words

> That is an old version -- brass tires. Always wondered whether it was three feet higher off of the frame than it should be. Kennesaw Trains in Atlanta had a very well done rebuild of one of these on display some years ago -- looked lower and may have ahd a valve gear redo. Lots of new detail parts too. Good luck on this! I found this pic which is a ringer for the MDC Atlantic: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SF1483.JPG And this Balboa model on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/220971542046 And I found this article http://www.steamlocomotive.com/atlantic/?page=atsf which claims that the 1480 is the "Bull Mooser" class. No pictures, but the MDC and Balboa locos - and the photo of 1483 - do not match the description given in this article at all, and googling images for "Bull Mooser" conjures up the 1452 class which more closely resembles the description. However once you throw in rebuilds all bets are off. If the 1480 class was rebuilt in the 20s - dome removed, rod moved to rear axle, etc - it could have ended up producing the MDC variant. Certainly the photo at the top proves it is correct for at least one Santa Fe Atlantic, at some point in time. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18663	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: A locomotive from my early days

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wally Weart <dim01521@...> wrote: > While gathering things which I want to sell, I "found" my Penn Line > rubber band drive "Whitcomb". I had forgotten about this but it was > my second engine back in the very early 1950s after I had purchased a > Varney Dockside. I have been looking for a complete one of these on ebay off and on. Like most of the things we had as kids, this one got a nickname based on the sound it made. We called it "The Jeannie Engine" because when it ran, it went "Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaan". Noisy little cuss with those vertical gears and the hollow metal shell. Penn Line called it the "Mighty Midget". Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18664	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to > rebuild ? The power truck sure looks a lot better. So often when you get one of these vintage loco drives, the mechanism looks like it was dipped in oil and than given a "shake n' bake" treatment inside a full vacuum cleaner dirtbag. And left to dry out for 40 years. I remember a show dealer in the 90s that had a Rivarossi Hudson in that condition and he was asking market price for a clean one. I must have seen the thing 50 times over the course of 5-6 years and he never budged on the price nor did he ever sell it. I was almost gonna suggest he run it through the dishwasher (top rack) and see if he had any takers at 75% off... Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18665	From: william witte	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Pre war & post war Mantua engines [3 Attachments]

Jim, your statement "Mantua had no cast bronze boilers." is in direct contradiction with the 1937 Mantua Catalogue. On page 18 of 1937 catalogue it is states "BOILER, CYLINDERS, PILOT, are cast from Bronze".  The 1939 catalogue also refrences bronze castings.  The 1940, 1941 and 1942 catalogues are less descriptive, omitting the type of construction. The 1948 catalogue refers to the Pacific as having a brass boiler.   Perhaps, there are two versions  of the pre-war locomotives. From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pre war & post war Mantua engines [3 Attachments]   I will attempt to tell the Mantua pre war & 1st run Post War story but my finger might not last. . Mantua made a pre war Consolidation first and then pre war Atlantic & Pacific engines. These three engines and all the same tenders were made from sheet brass ( Mantua had no cast bronze boilers. You might be mixing the pre war Varney Consolidation,Pacific and Mikado which used the 6 volt V-1 motor by Varney which were cast bronze boilers. ) Now back to the Mantua pre war. The 3 engines I've cited, Consolidation,Pacific and Atlantic used the larger of Mantua's 6 volt motors .I have a pre war Mantua Consolidation I rebuilt. I don't have any of the large 6 volt motors but have sent pictures of the smaller 6 volt Mantua motor that was used in smaller type 0-4-0 engine ( Lil Goat ,Busy Bee, Mighty Mite., Belle of he 80's and 2-6-0 Mogul. ) One thing to keep in mind that due to the war Hybrid engines both pre and post war might be found using up parts but the number will be small. We are talking about the major runs. What year is actually is the dividing line for pre and post I'm not sure but you will find pew war engines like the Little Goat, Busy Bee Mighty Mite ,2-6-0 Mogul and Belle of the 80's with 6 volt motors and post war engines with 12 volt motors. Now on to post war Mantua Atlantic and Pacifics which used 12 volt motors. No Consolidations were made post war. While the boilers still remained sheet brass the roofs, domes and other detail parts became cast metal as did the tenders which were still the same style as pre war. The post war Atlantic and Pacific had a big change in the drive. The Motor, drive, gears and a driver were all one piece that you could take out and replace with a whole new unit. The frames were cast metal and had a large V in them when cast to accept this complete unit. I don't want to go to much farther but the first completely cast metal, engine & tender, was a post war 12 volt motor Mikado. It used a tender that looked like later tender that used three axle tender trucks but only had two axle tender trucks at first. Another oddity about this tender it had an open space instead of the later cast coal load. I didn't write everything about pre war and post war Mantua. Too many facts might cause trouble. If you want extra info go to www.HOseeker.net click on Literature and read the 1937 catalog I have there which might help. Then go back and click on Gallery and then Mantua Steam and Varney steam pictures that might also help. Hope this helps clarify some info. Hope I made no mistakes. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18666	From: John H	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

I have tried twice to return to this thread but both times I fat finger and deleted the long message when it was near to complete. I cannot tell any exact years as every production run went for more than one or two years. That being said, the 1937 (?) catalog which shows only the Consolidation states "BOILER, CYLINDERS, PILOT, etc., are cast in BRONZE," and it goes on to say the cab is made of "hard brass." So the cab edges would be thin no matter what the boiler construction. The later pre war catalog and handbooks al.l say the Pacific uses the same construction as the Consolidation and the Atlantic is like the Pacific. None for them describe how the boiler is made but it says the boilers are "fully machined" (one says machined all over) and that all holes are drilled and tapped. This sound like a casting versus a sheet brass item. The post war catalogs/handbooks say the boiler is form of brass sheet and while the kits are fully machined there is no claim that the boiler is machined. I based my guess that the heavier of the two brass Pacific's is pre war is based, as I said, on the heavy weight as described. Of course they could be both post war and one has been weighted. Also, the one that I estimated to be post war appears to be redetailed; it definitely has been re-tendered. The die cast Pacific's are really hard to place. I never had one but I have (and do) had some Mikado's. The one I received for Christmas in 1948 or 49 (likely 49) was one of the first run. It had the booster trailer truck, the early, separate formed brass valve gear hangers with the four wheel tender trucks. BTW, you can't take off the four wheel trucks and replace them with six wheel unless you want to get into a bit of a project. One that a twelve-year-old can't handle. Ask me how I know. The second run of Mikado's came out about the same time as the Pacific was introduced, 1952 or 53. Actually these aren't runs like today's limited runs. They could start a production run pretty much anytime stock run low as it was all done in-house. It was more phases but run is easier to type. Anyway that first run of Pacific's had the big motor and the valve gear hangers were cast as part of the frame, just like the current Model Power version. The valve gear hanger on the Mikado was also changed at this time along with the change to the six wheel tender. Now I said in my first post that the change to the small motor and plastic components came in the fifties. Probably later 50's (1957 or later) or maybe even the early sixties. Unfortunately there is nothing on hoseeker.net to confirm this. There is even 1960 and 1962 catalogs there that still show (if one looks hard enough) that the Mike and Pacific still use the "Big motor" with a "short shaft" and had a "flexible drive" for the worm. However, are these correctly identified? Doubtful. The only dated catalog is the 1955 which carries the years of Mantua's existence (1926 - 1955) on the upper left of the cover. And that catalog is the only one that includes the Baldwin Shark Nose diesel. I purchased one of the beauties when they were very new. Judging by where I lived at the time (I date a lot of my history by where we lived as after August 1950 our typical stay in any one house was two to three years until sometime around the mid sixties.) that would have to be 1954, '55 or '56. What I loosely refer to as my mind keeps telling me 1955. The two catalogs from the `60's do not show this rather decent selling loco. Further, they seem older than 1960. I dunno, nothing I can say with certainly but they don't have the same "feel" as something from the sixties should or even that the 1955 catalog has. While it would be decades before I started buying Mikado's I still kept an eye on the Mantua line as they were my favorite. And it seems to me that the first updating of the steam locos came within five or so years after the Pacific was introduced. I noticed the plastic cabs and tender bodies of course but never realized at first that the motors were changed and the Mikado lost is booster truck. We have to remember that the year hoseeker assigns to these catalogs comes from those who supply them. And they may have had these things sitting around for twenty to forty years. Plus they may have been gone from one person to another or purchased from a dealer that had them sitting on the shelf for several years. Unless they have printed cover date, such as the 1955 catalog, the actual publication date is a matter of conjecture. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > John H. > What are the years you would say for each of the four photos? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > The heavy Pacific in #1 would be a prewar model with the cast bronze boiler. The tender may be the one what came with it but has different trucks. > > > > Photo 2 would be the post war Pacific of the same design but with the sheet brass boiler. I'm going by the weight as the two were very similar to begin with. And the #2 has a later tender than it originally came with. > > > > #3 & #4 are both diecast Pacific's that were introduced in 1953. There were several changes to the die cast model but nothing that changed the appearance until the post Tyco, Mantua days when they began mixing boilers, tenders and what not to expand the line with minimal investment. Heck, even today's Model Power, Chinese built Pacific's look the mostly the same. > > > > The original diecast models differed from subsequent versions in several ways. The DC71 motor that filled the cab and used a separate drive shaft to the worm that was in its own housing with self aligning bears was replaced with a DC60 size motor with the worm mounted directly on the motor shaft. I believe the new motor was built in-house. Probably the reason I never bothered to find out is all the Mikado's (Both the Mikado and the Pacific used the same motor and worm set-up through the years) I have purchased were the early style motor and drive except for one I got because it was very nicely detailed by the previous owner. If I ever get serious about running it I just swap the mechanism. And the diecast cab and tender bodies were changed to plastic about or at the same time the motors and worms were changed. This goes way back to the mid-fifties or so. After that, no changes occurred until, as a Tyco product, the frame lost its replaceable axle bearing inserts. But none of these changes affected the outward appearance. For some reason I never purchased a Pacific even though I'm a big fan of B&O steam. And, if you find photos of just the right President class B&O pacific the Mantua model looks very much like it. About the only obvious change from a couple of feet away is the cab. But you do have to find the right one. As originally built the prototype looks rather different. These things did go through several shoppings and updates but photos are out there and not all that hard to find. > > > > > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18667	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

I have one of those Version 2 (I think they're called) Mikados. Got it from friends second hand as a kid, oh, 61-62? It is metal cab, tender, gearbox with flex shaft, BUT drilled for headlight (works) with a clear plastic lense tube inserted. The cab had been damaged (leaned over a bit), Dan sent me a metal one, wouldn't fit. No way. Come to find out it took an earlier Pacific metal cab. No idea why. Dave > Now I said in my first post that the change to the small motor and plastic components came in the fifties. Probably later 50's (1957 or later) or maybe even the early sixties. Unfortunately there is nothing on hoseeker.net to confirm this. There is even 1960 and 1962 catalogs there that still show (if one looks hard enough) that the Mike and Pacific still use the "Big motor" with a "short shaft" and had a "flexible drive" for the worm. However, are these correctly identified? Doubtful. The only dated catalog is the 1955 which carries the years of Mantua's existence (1926 - 1955) on the upper left of the cover. And that catalog is the only one that includes the Baldwin Shark Nose diesel. I purchased one of the beauties when they were very new. Judging by where I lived at the time (I date a lot of my history by where we lived as after August 1950 our typical stay in any one house was two to three years until sometime around the mid sixties.) that would have to be 1954, '55 or '56. What I loosely refer to as my mind keeps telling me 1955. The two catalogs from the `60's do not show this rather decent selling loco. Further, they seem older than 1960. I dunno, nothing I can say with certainly but they don't have the same "feel" as something from the sixties should or even that the 1955 catalog has. While it would be decades before I started buying Mikado's I still kept an eye on the Mantua line as they were my favorite. And it seems to me that the first updating of the steam locos came within five or so years after the Pacific was introduced. I noticed the plastic cabs and tender bodies of course but never realized at first that the motors were changed and the Mikado lost is booster truck. > >. > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18668	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Mantua Consy Boiler

Attachments : IMG_7812.JPG IMG_7811-18668.JPG IMG_7809-18668.JPG William , Live and learn. My pre war Consolidation is a cast brass boiler and all these years I thought it was sheet brass like the post war Mantua Atlantic and Pacific. I do have to wonder about the tender. That catalog says it is built of sheet steel. As you can see my tender is sheet brass and I got it partly built and added the missing pieces. I seen many things wrong in catalogs and many hybrid engines but I was wrong on this pre war boiler. It's the only large pre war Mantua engine I have. Don't have the Atlantic or the Pacific. The other two pictures are the post war Atlantic and Pacific and the unpainted Atlantic is a sheet brass boiler and cab but the tender is cast metal with lots of cast metal detail. The painted Pacific is the same. Glad this discussion took place and corrected this fact for me. And the catalog you quote from is mine and shows how well I read it. I usually take my info from piece in had. Should have followed my motto " Never Say Never" Thanks. Jim Heckard i know the pilot is wrong and should be cast brass s

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18669	From: Glenn	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Consy Boiler [3 Attachments]

over the years Mantua did switch back and forth between brass and steel (tin plate) depending on strategic needs.gj -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Consy Boiler [3 Attachments] William , Live and learn. My pre war Consolidation is a cast brass boiler and all these years I thought it was sheet brass like the post war Mantua Atlantic and Pacific. I do have to wonder about the tender. That catalog says it is built of sheet steel. As you can see my tender is sheet brass and I got it partly built and added the missing pieces. I seen many things wrong in catalogs and many hybrid engines but I was wrong on this pre war boiler. It's the only large pre war Mantua engine I have. Don't have the Atlantic or the Pacific. The other two pictures are the post war Atlantic and Pacific and the unpainted Atlantic is a sheet brass boiler and cab but the tender is cast metal with lots of cast metal detail. The painted Pacific is the same. Glad this discussion took place and corrected this fact for me. And the catalog you quote from is mine and shows how well I read it. I usually take my info from piece in had. Should have followed my motto " Never Say Never" Thanks. Jim Heckard i know the pilot is wrong and should be cast brass s ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18670	From: Nelson	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

What an improvement, Jim. It looks like you got it in kit form, although I'm sure that power truck didn't shine like that even when new. Any ideas on how to reposition the brushes? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Andy ( greendoddz ), All > > > You mentioned yesterday I have a real project on my hands and > I agree. I took it all apart, stripped the paint with brake fluid which > made it a little easier. I will be making all new handrail and > stanchions from brass wire. I'm glad the previous builder drilled holes > for these pieces. Again a plus and less work. I am in the process of > cleaning old solder of the body and will be trying to take the rough > areas of he castings which will take a while. Have the right size O ring > from motor to drive truck. Trying to fix the motor that the brushes sit > more in the middle will take some time. I sent a couple of right now > pictures and in the one you will see two slightly different side frames. > On the left is from the later cast lead Walthers HH 660 and the one on > the right is for this first run. > > Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to > rebuild ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18671	From: Nelson	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

I think we saw the same dealer. It seems like there's at least one at every show asking retail price for something that looks like it was thrown down the stairs into a flooded basement. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to > > rebuild ? > > The power truck sure looks a lot better. So often when you get one of these vintage loco drives, the mechanism looks like it was dipped in oil and than given a "shake n' bake" treatment inside a full vacuum cleaner dirtbag. And left to dry out for 40 years. > > I remember a show dealer in the 90s that had a Rivarossi Hudson in that condition and he was asking market price for a clean one. I must have seen the thing 50 times over the course of 5-6 years and he never budged on the price nor did he ever sell it. I was almost gonna suggest he run it through the dishwasher (top rack) and see if he had any takers at 75% off... > > Andy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18672	From: greendoddz	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: >thrown down the stairs into a flooded basement. And sometimes this actually happened...... the house I grew up in had a very damp basement. We didn't need a flood for stuff to rust. Those Athearn tinplate-sided box cars developed some rather realistic rust. Plenty of stuff hit the floor over the years too, and yes a few did manage to make the trip down the stairs, unescorted. Andy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18673	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

----- Original Message ----- From: "greendoddz" <greendoddz@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:49 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers HH 660 > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > >>thrown down the stairs into a flooded basement. > > And sometimes this actually happened...... the house I grew up in had a > very damp basement. We didn't need a flood for stuff to rust. Those > Athearn tinplate-sided box cars developed some rather realistic rust. > Plenty of stuff hit the floor over the years too, and yes a few did manage > to make the trip down the stairs, unescorted. > > Andy > My room and layout was on the second floor, so floods weren't a problem, but there was the time my little sister sent a PFM United Milw 4-6-4 down the stairs to the first floor on it's own. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18674	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

Hi Nelson,      Since it is almost 70 here in eastern PA I want to work on getting the lawnmowers ready. Put the battery back in the ride on and put gas in it and the walk behind before getting tied up on the HH660. I intend to join the motor back to the geared truck and  look the brush location over as I have not made any decision what to do.  Then I can lay the brushes on the top and see if and how much I can move them backwards.  This 3 pole 6 volt motor doesn't give me much room to move back because of how  the wires to the armature take up a lit of space.      That's the kind of job I like just contemplating what I'll do. Meanwhile I will be cleaning the old solder off and smoothing the rough spots on the body casting. ( Just like I had to do with the Conover 2-10-2 pieces but not quite as bad ).                                                Jim H On 3/17/2012 1:01 AM, Nelson wrote:   What an improvement, Jim. It looks like you got it in kit form, although I'm sure that power truck didn't shine like that even when new. Any ideas on how to reposition the brushes? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Andy ( greendoddz ), All > > > You mentioned yesterday I have a real project on my hands and > I agree. I took it all apart, stripped the paint with brake fluid which > made it a little easier. I will be making all new handrail and > stanchions from brass wire. I'm glad the previous builder drilled holes > for these pieces. Again a plus and less work. I am in the process of > cleaning old solder of the body and will be trying to take the rough > areas of he castings which will take a while. Have the right size O ring > from motor to drive truck. Trying to fix the motor that the brushes sit > more in the middle will take some time. I sent a couple of right now > pictures and in the one you will see two slightly different side frames. > On the left is from the later cast lead Walthers HH 660 and the one on > the right is for this first run. > > Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to > rebuild ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18675	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

Hey, Jim, In the spirit of assembling and keeping the model in the way the manufacturer designed it, good, bad or indifferent, maybe you DON"T want to reposition the brushes. Unless you want to run it more than for just a test run, maybe not.  I guess the underlying questions that needs to be asked are: whether the motor was designed that way; if so, why; or whether the one you got, Jim, should not have passed QC. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   What an improvement, Jim. It looks like you got it in kit form, although I'm sure that power truck didn't shine like that even when new. Any ideas on how to reposition the brushes? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Andy ( greendoddz ), All > > > You mentioned yesterday I have a real project on my hands and > I agree. I took it all apart, stripped the paint with brake fluid which > made it a little easier. I will be making all new handrail and > stanchions from brass wire. I'm glad the previous builder drilled holes > for these pieces. Again a plus and less work. I am in the process of > cleaning old solder of the body and will be trying to take the rough > areas of he castings which will take a while. Have the right size O ring > from motor to drive truck. Trying to fix the motor that the brushes sit > more in the middle will take some time. I sent a couple of right now > pictures and in the one you will see two slightly different side frames. > On the left is from the later cast lead Walthers HH 660 and the one on > the right is for this first run. > > Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to > rebuild ? > > Jim H > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18676	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

Walter,      You are right. I would be defeating my way of doing things of keeping things original as possible unless I find out it is not to be this way. Since the motor runs and I don't plan to run it on a layout other then just a test run it might be best just to let well enough alone. Thanks for your input.                                                             Jim H On 3/17/2012 11:31 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Hey, Jim, In the spirit of assembling and keeping the model in the way the manufacturer designed it, good, bad or indifferent, maybe you DON"T want to reposition the brushes. Unless you want to run it more than for just a test run, maybe not.  I guess the underlying questions that needs to be asked are: whether the motor was designed that way; if so, why; or whether the one you got, Jim, should not have passed QC. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   What an improvement, Jim. It looks like you got it in kit form, although I'm sure that power truck didn't shine like that even when new. Any ideas on how to reposition the brushes? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Andy ( greendoddz ), All > > > You mentioned yesterday I have a real project on my hands and > I agree. I took it all apart, stripped the paint with brake fluid which > made it a little easier. I will be making all new handrail and > stanchions from brass wire. I'm glad the previous builder drilled holes > for these pieces. Again a plus and less work. I am in the process of > cleaning old solder of the body and will be trying to take the rough > areas of he castings which will take a while. Have the right size O ring > from motor to drive truck. Trying to fix the motor that the brushes sit > more in the middle will take some time. I sent a couple of right now > pictures and in the one you will see two slightly different side frames. > On the left is from the later cast lead Walthers HH 660 and the one on > the right is for this first run. > > Do you think even at this stage it looks a little easier to > rebuild ? > > Jim H > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18677	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Need a part

Hi, I'm in desperate need of a QC caboose step--specifically a PRR N5 caboose though I suspect most of the QC cabooses were probably furnished with the same style. Anyone have something in their parts/junk box?Appreciate any help. Thanks!   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18678	From: John Barlow	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part

Art,   Try Bowser Cal Scale Part 190-475. They come package of four. I looked at my Bowser N5C and they look like that. If not Cal Scale...contact Bowser itself. They might replace it for a few cents.   John B   --- On Sat, 3/17/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Need a part To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   Hi, I'm in desperate need of a QC caboose step--specifically a PRR N5 caboose though I suspect most of the QC cabooses were probably furnished with the same style. Anyone have something in their parts/junk box?Appreciate any help. Thanks!   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18679	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part

John, thanks for the tip. I have a Bowser N5C that has steps similar to the QC but a tad smaller. Maybe I'll just get a whole new set of Cary (13-256) or Cal Scale steps and swallow my purist feelings about it. Gotta do what ya gotta do I guess. I think the missing original one is behind the wall heating unit--will stay until the house goes.   Art W   In a message dated 3/17/2012 1:19:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jdenver4150@... writes: Art,   Try Bowser Cal Scale Part 190-475. They come package of four. I looked at my purist N5C and they look like that. If not Cal Scale...contact Bowser itself. They might replace it for a few cents.   John B   --- On Sat, 3/17/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Need a part To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   Hi, I'm in desperate need of a QC caboose step--specifically a PRR N5 caboose though I suspect most of the QC cabooses were probably furnished with the same style. Anyone have something in their parts/junk box?Appreciate any help. Thanks!   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18680	From: John H	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

Did your sister have a nice funeral? John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > My room and layout was on the second floor, so floods weren't a problem, but > there was the time my little sister sent a PFM United Milw 4-6-4 down the > stairs to the first floor on it's own. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18681	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part

I have some Red Ball steps that came with their 4 wheel caboose.  John B. Allyn From: "John Barlow" <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:19:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need a part   Art,   Try Bowser Cal Scale Part 190-475. They come package of four. I looked at my Bowser N5C and they look like that. If not Cal Scale...contact Bowser itself. They might replace it for a few cents.   John B   --- On Sat, 3/17/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Need a part To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   Hi, I'm in desperate need of a QC caboose step--specifically a PRR N5 caboose though I suspect most of the QC cabooses were probably furnished with the same style. Anyone have something in their parts/junk box?Appreciate any help. Thanks!   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18682	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Need a part

The ones I'm looking for are Quality Craft steps that come with their PRR N5C (I need only one) and are slightly larger than the Bowser ones on their models--though both are of the same style. Also, the Cal Scale ones look to be a different style than what were used on the N5C when you look closely. However, I checked on line and saw a photo of a real N5C with the style that Cary has available. Looks to me like that style became a replacement for the N5C originals over a period of time and were maybe standard on other PRR cabooses in addition. Thus I will probably get some of the Cary type. I can probably live with that. Thanks for your input.   Art W   In a message dated 3/17/2012 5:47:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, john.allyn@... writes: I have some Red Ball steps that came with their 4 wheel caboose.  John B. Allyn From: "John Barlow" <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:19:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Need a part   Art,   Try Bowser Cal Scale Part 190-475. They come package of four. I looked at my Bowser N5C and they look like that. If not Cal Scale...contact Bowser itself. They might replace it for a few cents.   John B   --- On Sat, 3/17/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Need a part To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   Hi, I'm in desperate need of a QC caboose step--specifically a PRR N5 caboose though I suspect most of the QC cabooses were probably furnished with the same style. Anyone have something in their parts/junk box?Appreciate any help. Thanks!   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18683	From: Nelson	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

I was wondering about originality vs. function myself, and there's no reason it shouldn't work fine as it is. In fact, it just occurred to me that since it will wear out less than half of each brush, when they're worn you can swap sides and use up the other half. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Walter, > > You are right. I would be defeating my way of doing things of > keeping things original as possible unless I find out it is not to be > this way. Since the motor runs and I don't plan to run it on a layout > other then just a test run it might be best just to let well enough > alone. Thanks for your input. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18684	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660 Motor

Attachments : IMG_7816_1.JPG IMG_7814_1.JPG IMG_7813_1.JPG Moving slowly along with my Walthers HH660 basket case I bought of eBay. Sending 3 pictures of the Walthers 6 volt motor and geared power truck I took apart to clean. I have about 3/4 of the brush surfaces riding on the commutators. Slightly more the before. I had to try to move them since the brushes were wearing real funny and didn't make good contact all the time. Assembled motor to geared power truck, added O ring and for a 6 volt motor it runs pretty nice. So far so good. It only has to run a little and will join the vintage collection on the shelves. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18685	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660

Nelson,      I decided to fool with the brushes a little. Since I'm not sure if all those Walther 6 volt motors were like that I don't think I broke my originality code moving them an 1/8" ( I can't believe they all would pass inspection )                                         Jim H On 3/17/2012 7:35 PM, Nelson wrote:   I was wondering about originality vs. function myself, and there's no reason it shouldn't work fine as it is. In fact, it just occurred to me that since it will wear out less than half of each brush, when they're worn you can swap sides and use up the other half. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Walter, > > You are right. I would be defeating my way of doing things of > keeping things original as possible unless I find out it is not to be > this way. Since the motor runs and I don't plan to run it on a layout > other then just a test run it might be best just to let well enough > alone. Thanks for your input. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18686	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any more help would be greatly appreciated. 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from bronze. One piece Boiler, Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the Consolidation 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) material for locomotive frame brass channel Pictures one piece boiler 1941 1942 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. (1948?-1952)?? 1948 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 $49.50 with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. smaller motor (19?-19?) Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18687	From: tom leen	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor [3 Attachments]

Hi Jim, The brush set-up looks just like the one in my Mantua/Tyco 0-4-0 Docksider that I got for Christmas when I was 8 years old (back in the 60's) hee hee. Tom --- On Sun, 3/18/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 Motor [3 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 18, 2012, 12:12 AM   Moving slowly along with my Walthers HH660 basket case I bought of eBay. Sending 3 pictures of the Walthers 6 volt motor and geared power truck I took apart to clean. I have about 3/4 of the brush surfaces riding on the commutators. Slightly more the before. I had to try to move them since the brushes were wearing real funny and didn't make good contact all the time. Assembled motor to geared power truck, added O ring and for a 6 volt motor it runs pretty nice. So far so good. It only has to run a little and will join the vintage collection on the shelves. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18688	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Bill,     Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made at the same time but of different materials.      In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright date ).       Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED.   Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years involved with HO collecting       Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender Kit contains all parts completely cut out  and ready to SOLDER. Did Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home like mine. ?        As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel electrically welded tender so no way to compare it.  Again even if in catalog  doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen this happen with other companies numerous times        It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine.                                                             Jim H On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote:   I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any more help would be greatly appreciated. 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from bronze. One piece Boiler, Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the Consolidation 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) material for locomotive frame brass channel Pictures one piece boiler 1941 1942 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. (1948?-1952)?? 1948 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 $49.50 with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. smaller motor (19?-19?) Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18689	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Jim, I've been trying to wrap my brain around that as well. I have never seen a sheet metal tender. If you look in the 42 second edition the tenders on page 24 & 25 look like the shorter cast tender but page 26 looks taller. The 37/38 Cat looks tall so it could very well be cross over runs. And the description fits. Tell me more about the tenders you have. Are you saying pre war long haul tenders were cast or machined brass or bronze? I'm not following you there? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made > at the same time but of different materials. > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright > date ). > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender > where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED. > Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years > involved with HO collecting > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender > Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did > Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home > like mine. ? > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, > Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast > metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel > electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in > catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen > this happen with other companies numerous times > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you > could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan > Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine. > > Jim H > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some > > chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to > > educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them > > so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the > > Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms > > in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any > > more help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from > > bronze. > > One piece Boiler, > > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this > > the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the > > Consolidation > > > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > > material for locomotive frame brass channel > > Pictures one piece boiler > > > > 1941 > > > > 1942 > > > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. > > (1948?-1952)?? > > > > 1948 > > > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 $49.50 > > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). > > Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. > > Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and > > cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. > > smaller motor (19?-19?) > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size > > tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different > > length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18690	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

This is on E Bay now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MANTUA-ATLANTIC-PACIFIC-READING-BRASS-DIECAST-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVE-TENDER-/370594584408?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5649289758 Looks die cast to me, apparently same sort of construction as the Belle/8 Ball tender -- solid casting, no rivets, brass corner steps, 1/32 wire corner grabs. John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:32:03 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.   Bill,     Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made at the same time but of different materials.      In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright date ).       Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED.   Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years involved with HO collecting       Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender Kit contains all parts completely cut out  and ready to SOLDER. Did Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home like mine. ?        As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel electrically welded tender so no way to compare it.  Again even if in catalog  doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen this happen with other companies numerous times        It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine.                                                             Jim H On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote:   I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any more help would be greatly appreciated. 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from bronze. One piece Boiler, Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the Consolidation 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) material for locomotive frame brass channel Pictures one piece boiler 1941 1942 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. (1948?-1952)?? 1948 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 $49.50 with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. smaller motor (19?-19?) Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18691	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Bill,   To my knowledge my pre war total sheet brass tender is a kit that came with the Consolidation kit. ( I found a 6 volt large style Mantua 6 volt motor minus brushes in my box )   The post war Atlantic and Pacific have 12 volt motors, cast metal tenders better known as Zamac but same style as the pre war.  I can send you pictures or you can look at hoseeker.net, click on Gallery and then Mantua.                                          Jim H On 3/18/2012 2:16 PM, takefive247 wrote:   Jim, I've been trying to wrap my brain around that as well. I have never seen a sheet metal tender. If you look in the 42 second edition the tenders on page 24 & 25 look like the shorter cast tender but page 26 looks taller. The 37/38 Cat looks tall so it could very well be cross over runs. And the description fits. Tell me more about the tenders you have. Are you saying pre war long haul tenders were cast or machined brass or bronze? I'm not following you there? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made > at the same time but of different materials. > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright > date ). > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender > where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED. > Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years > involved with HO collecting > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender > Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did > Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home > like mine. ? > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, > Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast > metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel > electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in > catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen > this happen with other companies numerous times > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you > could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan > Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine. > > Jim H > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some > > chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to > > educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them > > so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the > > Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms > > in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any > > more help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from > > bronze. > > One piece Boiler, > > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this > > the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the > > Consolidation > > > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > > material for locomotive frame brass channel > > Pictures one piece boiler > > > > 1941 > > > > 1942 > > > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. > > (1948?-1952)?? > > > > 1948 > > > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 $49.50 > > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). > > Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. > > Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and > > cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. > > smaller motor (19?-19?) > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size > > tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different > > length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18692	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Mantua post war tender with engine

Attachments : IMG_7809_1.JPG IMG_7808_1.JPG IMG_7805_2.JPG IMG_7804_1.JPG IMG_7803_2.JPG John B Allyn, Bill, The first five pictures are the post war Mantua tenders for the Atlantic and Pacific. This is the same tender on eBay 310387357388. It was used on both the post war Atlantic and Pacific. You can see it is not solid but a shell on a frame made of cast metal ( Zamac ). You could switch these tenders with either engine or even the pre war engines . You could do vice versa and put like my brass tender behind either the post war Atlantic and Pacific with no problem. Exact style and dimensions. Material doesn't matter. This is an area where problems get created as some dealers switch tenders creating Hybrids when pre & post war tenders switched. Just confuses the issue of right and wrong. I've sent 2 pictures of the post war Atlantic ( and the Pacific and tender is the same ) so you can see how and what materials were used. This post war Atlantic and Pacific had the one piece motor,drive and driver so you could switch all in one if something happened ( Good way for Mantua to make extra money ). These were the only two Mantua engines had this feature and the frame was made special to accept the one piece part. Hope I've explained this that it is understood. This pre and post war is a nightmare to explain. Then you have Mantua using up old stock on later run engines which I can show you two Mighty Mites made the same year but much different construction materials and some design differences also that many people/ experts have told me No Way. If you want I will send my pre war engine and tender the same way with pictures. Let me know. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18693	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

That's exactly the kind of thing I am trying to deal with. Is it a brass tender? I don't think so!!! Bill . --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > This is on E Bay now: > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MANTUA-ATLANTIC-PACIFIC-READING-BRASS-DIECAST-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVE-TENDER-/370594584408?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5649289758 > > > Looks die cast to me, apparently same sort of construction as the Belle/8 Ball tender -- solid casting, no rivets, brass corner steps, 1/32 wire corner grabs. > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:32:03 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions. > > > > > > > Bill, > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made at the same time but of different materials. > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright date ). > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED. Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years involved with HO collecting > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home like mine. ? > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen this happen with other companies numerous times > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine. > > Jim H > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any more help would be greatly appreciated. > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from bronze. > One piece Boiler, > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the Consolidation > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > material for locomotive frame brass channel > Pictures one piece boiler > > 1941 > > 1942 > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. (1948?-1952)?? > > 1948 > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 $49.50 > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. smaller motor (19?-19?) > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > Bill > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18694	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Jim, If I am looking at the right picture, that tender is the tall one where in 42 the consolidation tender is shown as shorter (hight).and hard soldering for the kit is done. So I guess the question still remains Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > > To my knowledge my pre war total sheet brass tender is a kit that > came with the Consolidation kit. ( I found a 6 volt large style Mantua 6 > volt motor minus brushes in my box ) > > The post war Atlantic and Pacific have 12 volt motors, cast metal > tenders better known as Zamac but same style as the pre war. I can send > you pictures or you can look at hoseeker.net, click on Gallery and then > Mantua. > > Jim H > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 2:16 PM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Jim, > > I've been trying to wrap my brain around that as well. I have never > > seen a sheet metal tender. If you look in the 42 second edition the > > tenders on page 24 & 25 look like the shorter cast tender but page 26 > > looks taller. The 37/38 Cat looks tall so it could very well be cross > > over runs. And the description fits. > > > > Tell me more about the tenders you have. Are you saying pre war long > > haul tenders were cast or machined brass or bronze? I'm not following > > you there? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made > > > at the same time but of different materials. > > > > > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright > > > date ). > > > > > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender > > > where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED. > > > Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years > > > involved with HO collecting > > > > > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender > > > Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did > > > Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home > > > like mine. ? > > > > > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, > > > Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast > > > metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel > > > electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in > > > catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen > > > this happen with other companies numerous times > > > > > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you > > > could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan > > > Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some > > > > chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to > > > > educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them > > > > so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the > > > > Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms > > > > in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any > > > > more help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from > > > > bronze. > > > > One piece Boiler, > > > > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > > > > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > > > > > > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this > > > > the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > > > > > > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > > > > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the > > > > Consolidation > > > > > > > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > > > > material for locomotive frame brass channel > > > > Pictures one piece boiler > > > > > > > > 1941 > > > > > > > > 1942 > > > > > > > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > > > > > > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. > > > > (1948?-1952)?? > > > > > > > > 1948 > > > > > > > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > > > > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > > > > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > > > > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 > > $49.50 > > > > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > > > > > > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). > > > > Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. > > > > Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and > > > > cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > > > > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. > > > > smaller motor (19?-19?) > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size > > > > tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different > > > > length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18695	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Bill,    My brass pre war tender is 1/8" higher then the post war cast metal which are both the same. It could only be because there is a difference in the bolster or more spacers between the truck and bolster. I measured from the bottom of the brass pre war and the cast metal post war tender to the top of the coal bin and the three are 1 and 3/16 " high. Maybe what you see in the catalog or pictures is an illusion or just drawn that way.                                         Jim H On 3/18/2012 6:15 PM, takefive247 wrote:   Jim, If I am looking at the right picture, that tender is the tall one where in 42 the consolidation tender is shown as shorter (hight).and hard soldering for the kit is done. So I guess the question still remains Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > > To my knowledge my pre war total sheet brass tender is a kit that > came with the Consolidation kit. ( I found a 6 volt large style Mantua 6 > volt motor minus brushes in my box ) > > The post war Atlantic and Pacific have 12 volt motors, cast metal > tenders better known as Zamac but same style as the pre war. I can send > you pictures or you can look at hoseeker.net, click on Gallery and then > Mantua. > > Jim H > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 2:16 PM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Jim, > > I've been trying to wrap my brain around that as well. I have never > > seen a sheet metal tender. If you look in the 42 second edition the > > tenders on page 24 & 25 look like the shorter cast tender but page 26 > > looks taller. The 37/38 Cat looks tall so it could very well be cross > > over runs. And the description fits. > > > > Tell me more about the tenders you have. Are you saying pre war long > > haul tenders were cast or machined brass or bronze? I'm not following > > you there? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made > > > at the same time but of different materials. > > > > > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright > > > date ). > > > > > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender > > > where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED. > > > Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years > > > involved with HO collecting > > > > > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender > > > Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did > > > Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home > > > like mine. ? > > > > > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, > > > Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast > > > metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel > > > electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in > > > catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen > > > this happen with other companies numerous times > > > > > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you > > > could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan > > > Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some > > > > chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to > > > > educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them > > > > so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the > > > > Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms > > > > in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any > > > > more help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from > > > > bronze. > > > > One piece Boiler, > > > > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > > > > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > > > > > > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this > > > > the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > > > > > > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > > > > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the > > > > Consolidation > > > > > > > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > > > > material for locomotive frame brass channel > > > > Pictures one piece boiler > > > > > > > > 1941 > > > > > > > > 1942 > > > > > > > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > > > > > > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. > > > > (1948?-1952)?? > > > > > > > > 1948 > > > > > > > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > > > > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > > > > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > > > > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 > > $49.50 > > > > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > > > > > > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). > > > > Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. > > > > Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and > > > > cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > > > > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. > > > > smaller motor (19?-19?) > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size > > > > tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different > > > > length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18696	From: John H	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

FWIW, I think can add a little more info. The latest photos from you and Jim help a lot, especially with the two brass boilered Pacific's. Both of them are post war with the 12 volt combined motor and gear box. Photo #1 is a standard kit built loco and tender except the tender truck have been replaced with Mantua six wheel trucks. Apparently the trucks are mounted with the screw between the second and third axles and vice-versa on the rear causing them to be too far towards the ends of the tender. IIRC, they only had one mounting hole to keep the polarity correct which would mean the installer used the rear truck on the front and front on the rear. The reason for this is that if he had put on the same way as they were on the long distance tenders they would have been way too far bock from the ends. Remember I mentioned that regarding the difference between the four wheel and six wheel trucks on the early, diecast long distance tenders? That is because I tried to put the six wheel trucks on my first run Mikado tender that came with the four wheel trucks. Putting them on correctly made them too far from the ends and switching them made them too close to the ends just like the early cast tender in photo #1. I also tried to get a new frame for my tender to get the proper mounting points for the six wheelers only to find out when they came out with the Pacific and the six wheel tender they did away with the frame. The trucks mounted on posts cast as part of the shell. Maybe when the went to the plastic tender shell and returned to a separate frame I could have gotten a new frame but as I said I didn't think about that possibility until I no longer had the engine. Yes, I let my first piece of model train equipment slip away when It was in my teens. That is why I had to purchase a first run Mike a couple of years ago. Now, to be safe, I have two. And, no, I will not try to put six wheel trucks on either one! Photo #2 has been redetailed quite a bit but it is a Mantua. This one has the diecast long distance tender but retains the trucks from the original tender. Since these four wheel trucks appear to fir the tender well I am going to assume that the tender is from the first Mikado with the frame. Photo #3 is a first run Pacific with it's as supplied diecast, six axle, frameless tender. BTW, the easiest way to tell the difference between the diecast and plastic tenders is by the steps. This would limit this Pacific to between 1953 and, I believe, 1957 or 58. But again I cannot prove the end date. Photo #4 is the standard Pacific produced from 1957 or 58 to sometime after the Tyler's re-introduced the Mantua name and added lighted headlights. You could date that Pacific a bit closer if you check to see if the frame has replaceable bearing inserts for the drivers. You would probably turn it up-side down and remove the frames cover plate to do so. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > That's exactly the kind of thing I am trying to deal with. > Is it a brass tender? I don't think so!!! > > Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18697	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: : Early Mantua Pacific questions.

Bill,  Also remember the Consolidation and Pacific might ride higher on the rails then the Atlantic and give the illusion of two different tender heights. Maybe it would be a good idea to start a new thread as this is getting pretty long.                                                   JIm H On 3/18/2012 6:35 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: Bill,    My brass pre war tender is 1/8" higher then the post war cast metal which are both the same. It could only be because there is a difference in the bolster or more spacers between the truck and bolster. I measured from the bottom of the brass pre war and the cast metal post war tender to the top of the coal bin and the three are 1 and 3/16 " high. Maybe what you see in the catalog or pictures is an illusion or just drawn that way.                                         Jim H On 3/18/2012 6:15 PM, takefive247 wrote:   Jim, If I am looking at the right picture, that tender is the tall one where in 42 the consolidation tender is shown as shorter (hight).and hard soldering for the kit is done. So I guess the question still remains Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > > To my knowledge my pre war total sheet brass tender is a kit that > came with the Consolidation kit. ( I found a 6 volt large style Mantua 6 > volt motor minus brushes in my box ) > > The post war Atlantic and Pacific have 12 volt motors, cast metal > tenders better known as Zamac but same style as the pre war. I can send > you pictures or you can look at hoseeker.net, click on Gallery and then > Mantua. > > Jim H > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 2:16 PM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Jim, > > I've been trying to wrap my brain around that as well. I have never > > seen a sheet metal tender. If you look in the 42 second edition the > > tenders on page 24 & 25 look like the shorter cast tender but page 26 > > looks taller. The 37/38 Cat looks tall so it could very well be cross > > over runs. And the description fits. > > > > Tell me more about the tenders you have. Are you saying pre war long > > haul tenders were cast or machined brass or bronze? I'm not following > > you there? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made > > > at the same time but of different materials. > > > > > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright > > > date ). > > > > > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender > > > where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically WELDED. > > > Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 years > > > involved with HO collecting > > > > > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender > > > Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did > > > Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made at home > > > like mine. ? > > > > > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, > > > Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war became cast > > > metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel > > > electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in > > > catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen > > > this happen with other companies numerous times > > > > > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you > > > could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua products Dan > > > Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts of mine. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some > > > > chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to > > > > educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I know them > > > > so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the > > > > Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific bottoms > > > > in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous posts. Any > > > > more help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, cast from > > > > bronze. > > > > One piece Boiler, > > > > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > > > > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > > > > > > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some consider this > > > > the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > > > > > > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > > > > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the > > > > Consolidation > > > > > > > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > > > > material for locomotive frame brass channel > > > > Pictures one piece boiler > > > > > > > > 1941 > > > > > > > > 1942 > > > > > > > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > > > > > > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. > > > > (1948?-1952)?? > > > > > > > > 1948 > > > > > > > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > > > > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > > > > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > > > > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No 202 > > $49.50 > > > > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > > > > > > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war !946-1952). > > > > Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess so far. > > > > Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece boiler and > > > > cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > > > > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. > > > > smaller motor (19?-19?) > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size > > > > tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines different > > > > length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18698	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war tender with engine

Thanks Jim great pictures.Isn't that the same tender in the 40 and 41 catalog? I know dealers and end users as well would switch tenders and engines . Even thou, that and carry over stock doesn't seem to account for the difference in tenders shown in the catalogs. Will we ever really know? Talk about changes I have a Bell of the eightys instruction sheet that is different then those on HOseekers site.Those people at Mantua were busy little bees. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > John B Allyn, Bill, > > The first five pictures are the post war Mantua tenders for > the Atlantic and Pacific. This is the same tender on eBay > 310387357388. It was used on both the post war Atlantic and Pacific. You > can see it is not solid but a shell on a frame made of cast metal ( > Zamac ). You could switch these tenders with either engine or even the > pre war engines . You could do vice versa and put like my brass tender > behind either the post war Atlantic and Pacific with no problem. Exact > style and dimensions. Material doesn't matter. > > This is an area where problems get created as some dealers > switch tenders creating Hybrids when pre & post war tenders switched. > Just confuses the issue of right and wrong. > > I've sent 2 pictures of the post war Atlantic ( and the Pacific > and tender is the same ) so you can see how and what materials were > used. This post war Atlantic and Pacific had the one piece motor,drive > and driver so you could switch all in one if something happened ( Good > way for Mantua to make extra money ). These were the only two Mantua > engines had this feature and the frame was made special to accept the > one piece part. > > Hope I've explained this that it is understood. This pre and > post war is a nightmare to explain. Then you have Mantua using up old > stock on later run engines which I can show you two Mighty Mites made > the same year but much different construction materials and some design > differences also that many people/ experts have told me No Way. > > If you want I will send my pre war engine and tender the same > way with pictures. Let me know. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18699	From: takefive247	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Early Mantua Pacific qusetions.

Now I don't think we are on the same page again.Arn't we talking about three maybe 4 different tenders between 1937 and 1947. Then another in 53? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > My brass pre war tender is 1/8" higher then the post war cast metal > which are both the same. It could only be because there is a difference > in the bolster or more spacers between the truck and bolster. I measured > from the bottom of the brass pre war and the cast metal post war tender > to the top of the coal bin and the three are 1 and 3/16 " high. Maybe > what you see in the catalog or pictures is an illusion or just drawn > that way. > > Jim H > > > > On 3/18/2012 6:15 PM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Jim, > > If I am looking at the right picture, that tender is the tall one > > where in 42 the consolidation tender is shown as shorter (hight).and > > hard soldering for the kit is done. So I guess the question still remains > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > To my knowledge my pre war total sheet brass tender is a kit that > > > came with the Consolidation kit. ( I found a 6 volt large style > > Mantua 6 > > > volt motor minus brushes in my box ) > > > > > > The post war Atlantic and Pacific have 12 volt motors, cast metal > > > tenders better known as Zamac but same style as the pre war. I can send > > > you pictures or you can look at hoseeker.net, click on Gallery and then > > > Mantua. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 2:16 PM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > I've been trying to wrap my brain around that as well. I have never > > > > seen a sheet metal tender. If you look in the 42 second edition the > > > > tenders on page 24 & 25 look like the shorter cast tender but page 26 > > > > looks taller. The 37/38 Cat looks tall so it could very well be cross > > > > over runs. And the description fits. > > > > > > > > Tell me more about the tenders you have. Are you saying pre war long > > > > haul tenders were cast or machined brass or bronze? I'm not following > > > > you there? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Would like your opinion as to the possibility of two tenders made > > > > > at the same time but of different materials. > > > > > > > > > > In the catalog (1937 or 38 depending how you look at the copyright > > > > > date ). > > > > > > > > > > Page 18 has the completed train with Reading Consy and tender > > > > > where it states he tender built of Sheet Steel electronically > > WELDED. > > > > > Has anyone seen one and not in catalog ? I know I haven't in 53 > > years > > > > > involved with HO collecting > > > > > > > > > > Page 19 has the Consy and tender kit alone and states " Tender > > > > > Kit contains all parts completely cut out and ready to SOLDER. Did > > > > > Mantua perhaps make tender sheet brass to allow kit to be made > > at home > > > > > like mine. ? > > > > > > > > > > As to length of pre war and post war tenders for the Consy, > > > > > Atlantic and Pacific mine are all the same except post war > > became cast > > > > > metal (Zamac ) and same style. Can't speak for the sheet steel > > > > > electrically welded tender so no way to compare it. Again even if in > > > > > catalog doesn't mean it was made unless some one has one. I've seen > > > > > this happen with other companies numerous times > > > > > > > > > > It's possible if you contact Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains you > > > > > could get some answers. When Model Power took over Mantua > > products Dan > > > > > Bush became the representative for Mantua parts. Some thoughts > > of mine. > > > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/2012 11:37 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still trying to date my Pacific locomotives and build some > > > > > > chronological order to changes Matua made. Along the way try to > > > > > > educate myself and others. The following is the facts as I > > know them > > > > > > so far. Feel free to fill in the blanks. (For now just the > > > > > > Consolidation, Pacific and Atlantic. I added photo of Pacific > > bottoms > > > > > > in Bill's Mantua and I'm still mulling over the previous > > posts. Any > > > > > > more help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1937 Dec Introduced Consolidation. Cylinders, pilot , etc, > > cast from > > > > > > bronze. > > > > > > One piece Boiler, > > > > > > Heavy duty Mantua 6 volt motor > > > > > > 8 wheel Tender built of sheet steel, electrically welded. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1938 First Catalog No 38 First Ed.(copyright 1937)(some > > consider this > > > > > > the 37 catalog) and second edition (copyright 1938) > > > > > > > > > > > > 1939 Catalog No 39 Frst edition) copyright 1938 > > > > > > Introduced Atlantic and Pacific construction "similar" to the > > > > > > Consolidation > > > > > > > > > > > > 1940 Catalog First and second edition (no copyright stated) > > > > > > material for locomotive frame brass channel > > > > > > Pictures one piece boiler > > > > > > > > > > > > 1941 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1942 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1946 Spring of 46 reproduced the 42 catalog (copyright 1945) > > > > > > > > > > > > 1947 Shows Pacific two piece boiler, Sheet metal with cast insert. > > > > > > (1948?-1952)?? > > > > > > > > > > > > 1948 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1953 Cyclopedia All new Pacific kit no 212. $24.95 > > > > > > One piece cast boiler Nylon gear & worm. DC 71 motor. > > > > > > 6 wheel tender trucks. working valve gear > > > > > > Also lists the Reading Atlantic No 201, $47.50. and Pacific No > > 202 > > > > $49.50 > > > > > > with exclusive gear box seperate detail parts (domes, stack, etc.) > > > > > > > > > > > > As near as I can tell my photo #1 is sheet brass post war > > !946-1952). > > > > > > Tender?? Photo #2 is somewhere between 1937-1953. Best guess > > so far. > > > > > > Maybe not a Mantua kit. Photo #3 all metal, cast one piece > > boiler and > > > > > > cast open bottom tender. motor goes all the way > > > > > > back to fill the cab (1953-19?) Photo #4 plastic cab and tender. > > > > > > smaller motor (19?-19?) > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did the early Mantua Pacific Kits come with two different size > > > > > > tenders? If so when did they change? Also. Were the engines > > different > > > > > > length then later years? Did any have 6 volt motors? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18700	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes

Attachments : IMG_7806-18700.JPG IMG_7805_3.JPG IMG_7804_2.JPG IMG_7803_3.JPG IMG_7802_2.JPG John H, Bill, John B Allyn, I'm going to have to stop after this as I've been on the computerto much instead of my Walthers HH660 project and I'm getting computeritis of the eye. The first three pictures are no 2,3 and 4 Mantua Pacifics. No 1 the pre war I don't have. No 2 is the post war Pacific just painted black,. No 3 is the Pacific that has the Mantua Vanderbilt tender you could buy. If you look close it has an enclosed drive ( Little silver box ). No 4 is the one seen the most. Plastic tender with 6 wheel trucks and no enclosed drive. Motor shaft gear to geared Driver. Since you mentioned the Mikado here are the first three No 1 has enclosed drive, power assisted trailing truck and the odd tender that is metal, had 4 wheel trucks and had an empty coal bin. No 2 has enclosed drive and power assisted trailing truck. How ever the tender is now plastic, has coal molded in the bin and 6 wheel tender trucks. No 3 would be what I call most common. No power assisted trailing truck just the regular most recognized trailing truck, no enclosed drive just motor gear to Driver gear. The tender is plastic with molded coal in the bin and 6 wheel trucks. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18701	From: John H	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes

Jim, Your ID of photos #1 & #3 are dead on. #2 not so much. The loco it's self is a first run identical to Photo #1. The clue here is the formed brass valve gear hangers that screwed to ears cast as part of the worm housing. This model, like the early diecast Pacific with Vanderbilt tender, had a tender swap. The second run of Mikado's had the valve gear hangers formed as part of the crosshead guides, just as in Photo #3. This style crosshead guide was introduced with the Shifter albeit without valve gear hangers unless one purchased the valve gear kit. The 2nd Mike still had the DC71 motor and separate worm housing but the housing casting did not have ears for the valve guide hangers like the Pacific. In fact it was the same part as on the Pacific. I'm not sure if it had the booster trailing truck as the Pacific never had one. So they could have just used one truck for both loco's. And both the second Mikado and first Pacific used the same six wheel, frameless diecast tender, still without a coal load. The plastic tenders, cabs and small motor with shaft mounted worm were on the next (3rd) generation Mikado and 2nd generation Pacific. The 2nd Mikado/first Pacific crosshead guide/valve gear hanger was used on all of the diecast steamers and the 2-6-6-2's up to today's Model Power versions. The Mikado and Pacific's were longer than the others but still the same type. Only the first Mikado used the formed brass hangers. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Since you mentioned the Mikado here are the first three No 1 > has enclosed drive, power assisted trailing truck and the odd tender > that is metal, had 4 wheel trucks and had an empty coal bin. No 2 has > enclosed drive and power assisted trailing truck. How ever the tender is > now plastic, has coal molded in the bin and 6 wheel tender trucks. No 3 > would be what I call most common. No power assisted trailing truck just > the regular most recognized trailing truck, no enclosed drive just motor > gear to Driver gear. The tender is plastic with molded coal in the bin > and 6 wheel trucks. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18702	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes

Gentlemen, No one, that I recall, has mentioned the spoked drivers of Jim's #1 Pacific, and the Bokpox drivers of his ## 2 & 3. Aren't they also a clue to date of manufacture? Walter On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:51 PM, John H <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Jim, Your ID of photos #1 & #3 are dead on. #2 not so much. The loco it's self is a first run identical to Photo #1. The clue here is the formed brass valve gear hangers that screwed to ears cast as part of the worm housing. This model, like the early diecast Pacific with Vanderbilt tender, had a tender swap. The second run of Mikado's had the valve gear hangers formed as part of the crosshead guides, just as in Photo #3. This style crosshead guide was introduced with the Shifter albeit without valve gear hangers unless one purchased the valve gear kit. The 2nd Mike still had the DC71 motor and separate worm housing but the housing casting did not have ears for the valve guide hangers like the Pacific. In fact it was the same part as on the Pacific. I'm not sure if it had the booster trailing truck as the Pacific never had one. So they could have just used one truck for both loco's. And both the second Mikado and first Pacific used the same six wheel, frameless diecast tender, still without a coal load. The plastic tenders, cabs and small motor with shaft mounted worm were on the next (3rd) generation Mikado and 2nd generation Pacific. The 2nd Mikado/first Pacific crosshead guide/valve gear hanger was used on all of the diecast steamers and the 2-6-6-2's up to today's Model Power versions. The Mikado and Pacific's were longer than the others but still the same type. Only the first Mikado used the formed brass hangers. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18704	From: John H	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes

Re: Mantua post war Pacifics and Mikes Walter, Jim described the photos in his message. Photo #1 is the pre or post war brass Pacific. Photo #2 and #3 are both of the diecast Pacific's introduced in 1952 or 53, depending who the data comes from. Personally I believe 1953. Photo #2 is from the first generation (better word than run as I'm sure several production runs were done in the five to seven years these were made) with the enclosed worm and diecast cab albeit it has a later production Vanderbilt tender, as Jim noted. Photo #3 has the small motor w/worm directly on the motor shaft. It will also have the plastic cab but that is not really noticeable in the photos. It also sports the correct, plastic shell long distance tender with the cast in coal load. This version was built from the late fifties all the way into the eighties and maybe beyond. This covers the first Mantua era, the Tyco era and well into the second Mantua era that began in 1979. At some point in that era, Mantua introduced its "Power Drive" Pacific's (and Mikado's) that were basically a return to the enclosed worm in a separate cast housing. I have never had one of these to determine if the casting is the same as used in the forties and fifties or not but it looks very similar. Those early Power Drives used a motor similar in size to the one used since they dropped the DC71. Later they started using Sagami can motors and then a different can motor with flywheels. That spelled the end of the small motor/open worm era. Today's Pacific's from Model Power still use the can motor drive. Also, at some point in the second Mantua period spoked drivers were again used on certain Pacific models as they tried to more closely emulate specific prototypes. Again I've never been able to do any comparison but I wouldn't be surprised if these were not redo's of brass Pacific's drivers. Mantua always seemed to be very frugal and seemed to never throw anything away. So it's quite possible they still had the casting patterns around. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Gentlemen, > No one, that I recall, has mentioned the spoked drivers of Jim's #1 > Pacific, and the Bokpox drivers of his ## 2 & 3. Aren't they also a clue to > date of manufacture? > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18705	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Mikado Tenders

Attachments : IMG_7805_5.JPG IMG_7804_4.JPG IMG_7803_5.JPG IMG_7802_4.JPG IMG_7801_4.JPG Hi John , Want to respond to your opinions concerning what I call the second run Mikado. I hate to take pieces of the shelf because something bad always happens. I only intend to talk about the TENDERS this message. Last night it was getting late and I had been on the computer most of the afternoon. I made an error in saying the tender on what I call the 2nd run Mike was plastic when it is metal. I have sent pictures of what I believe to be 3 different tenders for the first 3 runs of Mikados. Before I start I wonder if you will share with me where your information came from especially, if I read it right , that on Mantua's second run they used tender with a coal bin minus coal like the 1st run. As I go forward I will have to oppose that. My information comes from Jim Lenahan ( Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon's ) now deceased. Members of the now defunct HOSC&H SIG group especially a Mr Frank Bell Jr. who was writing the Mantua's Guide for Greenberg but they were stopping all this type of projects so it was never printed. Now on to the pictures I sent. The first 3 pictures are the bottom of the tenders that I call Runs 1, 2 and 3 Picture 1 is the cast metal ( Zamac ) tender with a cast in coal bin with no coal and had 4 wheel trucks. You can also see a bar between the trucks where they mount. This is what I was always told was with the first run Mantua Mike tender. You will see how deep it is when the top pictures are explained. Also without modifying it there is no way to mount 6 wheel trucks on this set up and why picture 2 is the 2nd run tender. Picture 2 is the tender we disagree on. I said plastic but after taking it off the shelf I see it is metal . You said the second run Mike had a tender that had a bin just like the 1st run. I say no. I had always been told that the tender with 4 wheel trucks and the big empty coal bin was only used on that first run. You will see this 2nd picture has post to mount the now 6 wheel trucks and the coal bin is much more shallow because when you see the picture of the top of this tender it has a metal coal load that you screwed in the bin that is only about a half inch thick. Where do you assign this tender ? Picture 3 is the plastic tender with a plastic bottom and 6 wheel trucks that became the norm at least till 1976 . I don't collect newer then that. Picture 4 is the tops of the three tenders 1,2 &3 starting with at the bottom and going up. You can see the depth of the coal bin on no 1 and hardly any depth on no 2 that used a separate piece of cast coal screwed on that came with it.. Remember that piece is only about a half inch thick and the bottom of the bin not much deeper. Especially not as deep as tender 1. Picture 5 is just the bottoms of what I call tenders 1 and 2 Trying to show closer up the the differences. I hate trying to enter so much data in an email. Mantua's story and history back since the start gets mixed up. What tender did you say was swapped out and what would you use ? Have a great day. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18706	From: John H	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado Tenders

Jim, You have just supplied some information to me that I was unaware of. Somehow I knew that the frameless diecast tender did not coal load as part of the casting. I was totally unaware that there was a separate screw in load. Thank you for this piece of data. Well, the 2nd run Mikado I consider the one with the "new" type of valve gear hangers. I understand that have been some first generation Mike's that left the factory with the frameless tender but, in my mind it is still a first run as the locomotive itself was not changed. Not until the changes that included a different frame casting, worm housing and the Pacific type crosshead guide/valve gear hangers were instituted did the loco change. I am not aware of Mr. Lenahan's work in this matter. If we are going to go by his determinations of runs or generations I will need what they are. I really have no preference; up to now I have been going by what I read and observed first hand. Maybe, when you have time, NO RUSH, you could supply me with a synopsis of his history. You can do this off list if you feel it would be best. So far as my information? That comes from reading and observing just about anything ever produced about Mantua. From the time when I received my first Mikado for Christmas 1949 I was a confirmed Mantua guy. Well, Maybe 1948 but it had to be 1949 at the latest as we moved to Green Bay during 1950 and the layout I first ran it on was torn down. While only six at the time I could read very well and would literally devour dad's Model Railroader's. And later I started buying my own. While I did start missing issues when we moved to Milwaukee when I was near eighteen in later years I filled all the gaps at train shows. Plus I always knew model rails and would never avoid a discussion on the subject and I still was a vacuum for anything Mantua. Tyco too for that matter and I can recall my disappointment as they slowly became toy train makers. Yes, I do know that the six wheel trucks can't be put on the first long distance tender. I've mentioned my adventure with trying to do this as a twelve year old. Your list of the various long distance tenders is spot on. It was your saying the early Mike had a plastic tender that probably prompted my reply. But then, I still love my Mantua locos and just get all itchy when something comes up that does not jive with what I know (or think I know). So then an email will go out so I can satisfy what I laughingly refer to as my mind. I do feel it is worthwhile to continue Mr. Lenahan's work on Mantua and get a comprehensive list of at least the first Mantua era. Since I am probably enjoy computer work more I would be happy to combine data and come up with a spread sheet or list. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi John , > > Want to respond to your opinions concerning what I call the > second run Mikado. I hate to take pieces of the shelf because something > bad always happens. I only intend to talk about the TENDERS this > message. Last night it was getting late and I had been on the computer > most of the afternoon. I made an error in saying the tender on what I > call the 2nd run Mike was plastic when it is metal. I have sent pictures > of what I believe to be 3 different tenders for the first 3 runs of Mikados. > > Before I start I wonder if you will share with me where your > information came from especially, if I read it right , that on Mantua's > second run they used tender with a coal bin minus coal like the 1st run. > As I go forward I will have to oppose that. My information comes from > Jim Lenahan ( Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon's ) now deceased. Members > of the now defunct HOSC&H SIG group especially a Mr Frank Bell Jr. who > was writing the Mantua's Guide for Greenberg but they were stopping all > this type of projects so it was never printed. > > Now on to the pictures I sent. The first 3 pictures are the > bottom of the tenders that I call Runs 1, 2 and 3 > > Picture 1 is the cast metal ( Zamac ) tender with a cast in coal > bin with no coal and had 4 wheel trucks. You can also see a bar between > the trucks where they mount. This is what I was always told was with the > first run Mantua Mike tender. You will see how deep it is when the top > pictures are explained. Also without modifying it there is no way to > mount 6 wheel trucks on this set up and why picture 2 is the 2nd run tender. > > Picture 2 is the tender we disagree on. I said plastic but after > taking it off the shelf I see it is metal . You said the second run Mike > had a tender that had a bin just like the 1st run. I say no. I had > always been told that the tender with 4 wheel trucks and the big empty > coal bin was only used on that first run. You will see this 2nd picture > has post to mount the now 6 wheel trucks and the coal bin is much more > shallow because when you see the picture of the top of this tender it > has a metal coal load that you screwed in the bin that is only about a > half inch thick. Where do you assign this tender ? > > Picture 3 is the plastic tender with a plastic bottom and 6 wheel > trucks that became the norm at least till 1976 . I don't collect newer > then that. > > Picture 4 is the tops of the three tenders 1,2 &3 starting with at > the bottom and going up. You can see the depth of the coal bin on no 1 > and hardly any depth on no 2 that used a separate piece of cast coal > screwed on that came with it.. Remember that piece is only about a half > inch thick and the bottom of the bin not much deeper. Especially not as > deep as tender 1. > > Picture 5 is just the bottoms of what I call tenders 1 and 2 > Trying to show closer up the the differences. > > I hate trying to enter so much data in an email. Mantua's > story and history back since the start gets mixed up. What tender did > you say was swapped out and what would you use ? Have a great day. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18707	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado Tenders

John,       I'm not sure if you got the names switched.       Mr James Lenahan ( Lenahans Train Shop ) put out Lexicons Vols 1&2. He tried to list every HO engine  put out even foreign brass, with help from many others. He had a picture of each engine, a name to go with engines that were not his, the years made, what materials the engines were made of and the company or companies who made that type engine. He admitted in the books that since a lot of info came from train collectors and some mistakes could be made.        If you mean  Mr, Frank Bell Jr. of New York State. He was one of the original members of the HO Scale Collectors & History-Special Interest Group moderated by Dave  Spanagel of the Greenberg Guide to Varney HO. He had a very large collector of vintage and rare/ very rare HO from all companies. Don't know if you ever heard of George Stock of Philly who hand made and hand painted and lettered the engines. He made many one of a kind. Mr Bell had a large collection of these. He also was the most knowledgeable about Mantua and Greenberg asked him to write a Guide to Mantua, No TYCO or at that time nothing of the newer stuff of today. He had a manuscript started when Greenberg decided the Guide books for HO companies wasn't going over welland told Mr. Bell they didn't want the book. I have no idea how far he got or where th manuscript he started got to but I would write him letters for answers and still have all his replies but not all Mantua and the move to the new home helped them hide He is in his 90's now. He had no computer and never gave his phone number out.        Which person are you asking about?  I still want to find time to discuss the No 2 run  Mikado. Then I will send you 2 pictures of two different Mantua Mighty Mites and tenders plus hook ups , point some things out and would like to hear your opinion on them. Last it would be a project to put together Mantua early steam engine history.  Did you know before the war they made a brass frame with 8 drivers and a six volt motor that could be used as a start for a Mountain. Better yet after the war they had  completed a cast metal 4-8-2 Mountain with tender mock ups that people saw and were told it would be produced and sold.  People who saw it said it was gorgeous with lots of detail. This was in one of the catalogs. Yet it never made it to customers as Mantua cancelled it. I'd love to have one of those mock ups. I THINK that Mantua produced the 1st run Mikado instead.        I have to get off this computer and get some time in on my Walthers HH660 switcher.                                                                    Jim H On 3/19/2012 12:51 PM, John H wrote:   Jim, You have just supplied some information to me that I was unaware of. Somehow I knew that the frameless diecast tender did not coal load as part of the casting. I was totally unaware that there was a separate screw in load. Thank you for this piece of data. Well, the 2nd run Mikado I consider the one with the "new" type of valve gear hangers. I understand that have been some first generation Mike's that left the factory with the frameless tender but, in my mind it is still a first run as the locomotive itself was not changed. Not until the changes that included a different frame casting, worm housing and the Pacific type crosshead guide/valve gear hangers were instituted did the loco change. I am not aware of Mr. Lenahan's work in this matter. If we are going to go by his determinations of runs or generations I will need what they are. I really have no preference; up to now I have been going by what I read and observed first hand. Maybe, when you have time, NO RUSH, you could supply me with a synopsis of his history. You can do this off list if you feel it would be best. So far as my information? That comes from reading and observing just about anything ever produced about Mantua. From the time when I received my first Mikado for Christmas 1949 I was a confirmed Mantua guy. Well, Maybe 1948 but it had to be 1949 at the latest as we moved to Green Bay during 1950 and the layout I first ran it on was torn down. While only six at the time I could read very well and would literally devour dad's Model Railroader's. And later I started buying my own. While I did start missing issues when we moved to Milwaukee when I was near eighteen in later years I filled all the gaps at train shows. Plus I always knew model rails and would never avoid a discussion on the subject and I still was a vacuum for anything Mantua. Tyco too for that matter and I can recall my disappointment as they slowly became toy train makers. Yes, I do know that the six wheel trucks can't be put on the first long distance tender. I've mentioned my adventure with trying to do this as a twelve year old. Your list of the various long distance tenders is spot on. It was your saying the early Mike had a plastic tender that probably prompted my reply. But then, I still love my Mantua locos and just get all itchy when something comes up that does not jive with what I know (or think I know). So then an email will go out so I can satisfy what I laughingly refer to as my mind. I do feel it is worthwhile to continue Mr. Lenahan's work on Mantua and get a comprehensive list of at least the first Mantua era. Since I am probably enjoy computer work more I would be happy to combine data and come up with a spread sheet or list. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi John , > > Want to respond to your opinions concerning what I call the > second run Mikado. I hate to take pieces of the shelf because something > bad always happens. I only intend to talk about the TENDERS this > message. Last night it was getting late and I had been on the computer > most of the afternoon. I made an error in saying the tender on what I > call the 2nd run Mike was plastic when it is metal. I have sent pictures > of what I believe to be 3 different tenders for the first 3 runs of Mikados. > > Before I start I wonder if you will share with me where your > information came from especially, if I read it right , that on Mantua's > second run they used tender with a coal bin minus coal like the 1st run. > As I go forward I will have to oppose that. My information comes from > Jim Lenahan ( Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon's ) now deceased. Members > of the now defunct HOSC&H SIG group especially a Mr Frank Bell Jr. who > was writing the Mantua's Guide for Greenberg but they were stopping all > this type of projects so it was never printed. > > Now on to the pictures I sent. The first 3 pictures are the > bottom of the tenders that I call Runs 1, 2 and 3 > > Picture 1 is the cast metal ( Zamac ) tender with a cast in coal > bin with no coal and had 4 wheel trucks. You can also see a bar between > the trucks where they mount. This is what I was always told was with the > first run Mantua Mike tender. You will see how deep it is when the top > pictures are explained. Also without modifying it there is no way to > mount 6 wheel trucks on this set up and why picture 2 is the 2nd run tender. > > Picture 2 is the tender we disagree on. I said plastic but after > taking it off the shelf I see it is metal . You said the second run Mike > had a tender that had a bin just like the 1st run. I say no. I had > always been told that the tender with 4 wheel trucks and the big empty > coal bin was only used on that first run. You will see this 2nd picture > has post to mount the now 6 wheel trucks and the coal bin is much more > shallow because when you see the picture of the top of this tender it > has a metal coal load that you screwed in the bin that is only about a > half inch thick. Where do you assign this tender ? > > Picture 3 is the plastic tender with a plastic bottom and 6 wheel > trucks that became the norm at least till 1976 . I don't collect newer > then that. > > Picture 4 is the tops of the three tenders 1,2 &3 starting with at > the bottom and going up. You can see the depth of the coal bin on no 1 > and hardly any depth on no 2 that used a separate piece of cast coal > screwed on that came with it.. Remember that piece is only about a half > inch thick and the bottom of the bin not much deeper. Especially not as > deep as tender 1. > > Picture 5 is just the bottoms of what I call tenders 1 and 2 > Trying to show closer up the the differences. > > I hate trying to enter so much data in an email. Mantua's > story and history back since the start gets mixed up. What tender did > you say was swapped out and what would you use ? Have a great day. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18708	From: John H	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado Tenders

Jim, Short answer. Yes I did get the names mixed up. I inadvertently mixed Mr. Lenahan's and Mr. Bell's works into one. Do get back to your HH660 as I am also waiting breathlessly to see that model all finished. We will continue discussing Mantua's history later. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > John, > > I'm not sure if you got the names switched. > > Mr James Lenahan ( Lenahans Train Shop ) put out Lexicons Vols > 1&2. He tried to list every HO engine put out even foreign brass, with > help from many others. He had a picture of each engine, a name to go > with engines that were not his, the years made, what materials the > engines were made of and the company or companies who made that type > engine. He admitted in the books that since a lot of info came from > train collectors and some mistakes could be made. > > If you mean Mr, Frank Bell Jr. of New York State. He was one of > the original members of the HO Scale Collectors & History-Special > Interest Group moderated by Dave Spanagel of the Greenberg Guide to > Varney HO. He had a very large collector of vintage and rare/ very rare > HO from all companies. Don't know if you ever heard of George Stock of > Philly who hand made and hand painted and lettered the engines. He made > many one of a kind. Mr Bell had a large collection of these. He also was > the most knowledgeable about Mantua and Greenberg asked him to write a > Guide to Mantua, No TYCO or at that time nothing of the newer stuff of > today. He had a manuscript started when Greenberg decided the Guide > books for HO companies wasn't going over welland told Mr. Bell they > didn't want the book. I have no idea how far he got or where th > manuscript he started got to but I would write him letters for answers > and still have all his replies but not all Mantua and the move to the > new home helped them hide He is in his 90's now. He had no computer and > never gave his phone number out. > > Which person are you asking about? I still want to find time to > discuss the No 2 run Mikado. Then I will send you 2 pictures of two > different Mantua Mighty Mites and tenders plus hook ups , point some > things out and would like to hear your opinion on them. > Last it would be a project to put together Mantua early steam engine > history. Did you know before the war they made a brass frame with 8 > drivers and a six volt motor that could be used as a start for a > Mountain. Better yet after the war they had completed a cast metal > 4-8-2 Mountain with tender mock ups that people saw and were told it > would be produced and sold. People who saw it said it was gorgeous with > lots of detail. This was in one of the catalogs. Yet it never made it to > customers as Mantua cancelled it. I'd love to have one of those mock > ups. I THINK that Mantua produced the 1st run Mikado instead. > > I have to get off this computer and get some time in on my > Walthers HH660 switcher. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18709	From: Nelson	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor

Jim, it looks like you moved the brushes as far as the slots in the upper field piece will allow. To seat them completely would require grinding. Just out of curiosity, is the magnet still strong, and does it have much torque? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Moving slowly along with my Walthers HH660 basket case I bought > of eBay. Sending 3 pictures of the Walthers 6 volt motor and geared > power truck I took apart to clean. I have about 3/4 of the brush > surfaces riding on the commutators. Slightly more the before. I had to > try to move them since the brushes were wearing real funny and didn't > make good contact all the time. Assembled motor to geared power truck, > added O ring and for a 6 volt motor it runs pretty nice. So far so good. > It only has to run a little and will join the vintage collection on the > shelves. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18710	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor

Nelson,           I have no way to check hows strong the magnet is or the torque. Magnet strong enough to pick up  10 penny nails. Motor runs strong but have to be careful as it is 6 volt that could run up to 8 volts running off 12 volts. It seems to run strong. I only need it to run a little while because it will be on shelf from then on. As far as grinding slots to move brushes further. Again no use as long as it runs as is. Probably will only run 2 or 3 minutes all the time I have it .                                                                            Jim H On 3/19/2012 7:07 PM, Nelson wrote:   Jim, it looks like you moved the brushes as far as the slots in the upper field piece will allow. To seat them completely would require grinding. Just out of curiosity, is the magnet still strong, and does it have much torque? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Moving slowly along with my Walthers HH660 basket case I bought > of eBay. Sending 3 pictures of the Walthers 6 volt motor and geared > power truck I took apart to clean. I have about 3/4 of the brush > surfaces riding on the commutators. Slightly more the before. I had to > try to move them since the brushes were wearing real funny and didn't > make good contact all the time. Assembled motor to geared power truck, > added O ring and for a 6 volt motor it runs pretty nice. So far so good. > It only has to run a little and will join the vintage collection on the > shelves. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18711	From: Jay	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Motor

Hi Jim, H; Nelson, and All, I'm a bit like Jim when it comes to not wanting to modify an original vintage locomotive too much, especially when it comes to a pioneering model as old as this one (74 years!) and dificult to find complete or in any condition. The Walthers catalog identifies this as a Pittman motor and even if the design not up to more modern standards, these very early versions still worked well enough at the time to both be a fairly reliable model locomotive and also move the budding HO hobby forward. For those of you with the back issues of MR, notice how many of these original bronze Walthers High Hoods you can see in the published layout photos, especially before WW2. On the other hand, (and in my humble opinion), those Walthers "lead brick" HH600's that began production circa 1940 and were still avavailable as casting kits well into the 1980's are plentiful and fair game for modifying and having fun with (but would still stick to later kits and not an original factory assembled lead version as those do not show up too often as well). When I was simply a model railroader and not "Vintage HO" guy, I ordered one direct from Walthers and soldered together the "lead brick" kit, filed down all the sharp corners so it resembled the later Otto Kuhler styled, round hood Alco HH660's, then hollowed out some of the lower casting to fit an Athearn switcher chassis with a hand held moto-tool. I upgraded that chassis with Trackside's cast white metal Blundt sideframes, Ernst's slow speed gearing and NWSL nickel silver wheelsets. Lots of fun to work on, but only recently read an article on how I can correct the excessive body lean endemic to older Athearn powered units that have been, ahem, previously tampered with, LOL! W. Jay W. Ps. An excellent book on the prototytpe Alco High Hoods was published by Withers Publishing in 2006. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > I have no way to check hows strong the magnet is or the torque. > Magnet strong enough to pick up 10 penny nails. Motor runs strong but > have to be careful as it is 6 volt that could run up to 8 volts running > off 12 volts. > It seems to run strong. I only need it to run a little while because it > will be on shelf from then on. As far as grinding slots to move brushes > further. Again no use as long as it runs as is. Probably will only run 2 > or 3 minutes all the time I have it . > > Jim H > > > > > On 3/19/2012 7:07 PM, Nelson wrote: > > > > Jim, it looks like you moved the brushes as far as the slots in the > > upper field piece will allow. To seat them completely would require > > grinding. > > > > Just out of curiosity, is the magnet still strong, and does it have > > much torque? > > > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Moving slowly along with my Walthers HH660 basket case I bought > > > of eBay. Sending 3 pictures of the Walthers 6 volt motor and geared > > > power truck I took apart to clean. I have about 3/4 of the brush > > > surfaces riding on the commutators. Slightly more the before. I had to > > > try to move them since the brushes were wearing real funny and didn't > > > make good contact all the time. Assembled motor to geared power truck, > > > added O ring and for a 6 volt motor it runs pretty nice. So far so > > good. > > > It only has to run a little and will join the vintage collection on the > > > shelves. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18712	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Mantua Mikado runs/revisions

Hi John, Want to write this quick before I start on my project. I think semantics is playing a big part in our discussion about Mantua Mikes. I think you feel there was only 2 revisions while I feel there were three. In my way of thinking what I call the 2nd run/ revision is valid . While the engine did not change from 1 to 2 there was a different tender that was sold to the public ( metal with shallow coal bin and special coal load screwed in the bin ) as a set. In my way of thinking that makes the three runs/revisions I originally wrote about. Unlike the plastic Vanderbilt tender sold separately which I never saw sold with an engine as a set (* engine & tender ). Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18713	From: John H	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Mikado runs/revisions

Morning Jim, That's what I've been thinking too. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > Want to write this quick before I start on my project. I think > semantics is playing a big part in our discussion about Mantua Mikes. I > think you feel there was only 2 revisions while I feel there were three. > In my way of thinking what I call the 2nd run/ revision is valid . While > the engine did not change from 1 to 2 there was a different tender that > was sold to the public ( metal with shallow coal bin and special coal > load screwed in the bin ) as a set. > > In my way of thinking that makes the three runs/revisions I > originally wrote about. Unlike the plastic Vanderbilt tender sold > separately which I never saw sold with an engine as a set (* engine & > tender ). > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18714	From: dasha	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Die Cast GG-1's Bowser or Penn Line

I have over the years collected three old GG-1 models and there parts, but the motors and drive gears have always been a mystery to me. Now that I've retired, I ve taken them out and I thought that our group might have the best advisors for obtaining and installing a new motor and gear system that is correct , if that is possible. Has anyone excelled in GG-1's lol , thank you for your reply

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18715	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Walthers HH 660 Progress

Attachments : IMG_7808.JPG IMG_7807-18715.JPG I sent these pictures although it won't look like much progress. The bronze body casting is very pitted. Since I don't think I'll be painting it I don't want to use small dabs of epoxy. I don't want it looking like a leopard. I am trying to sand off old solder especially around steps and sanding pitted areas to try to take out some of it. As you can see I formed new handrails. The one picture has them just stuck in the holes so they are not in line or square. Just wanted to get an idea . I must drill all the holes larger. It had .020 wire which is a little flimsy. I went to .032 wire for some strength and then realized I don't have drill bits for it. Since 1/32" is .03125 and the wire is .032 I have to check what would be the first drill bit bigger then .032 and then find some bits. Closes Hobby Shop over a hour away I guess I'll have to try Harbor Freight or order from Micro Mark which will slow things up. Ahead of where I started and looking good I think. Still looking for matching set of side frames for the power truck. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18716	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: Die Cast GG-1's Bowser or Penn Line

Right up front I'd give Bowser a call and see if they can help. Since they [urchased the Pittman line they couldbe your best source if they still have some in stock. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 3/20/12, dasha <dasha469@...> wrote: > I have over the years collected three old GG-1 models and there parts, but > the motors and drive gears have always been a mystery to me. Now that I've > retired, I ve taken them out and I thought that our group might have the > best advisors for obtaining and installing a new motor and gear system that > is correct , if that is possible. Has anyone excelled in GG-1's lol , thank > you for your reply > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18717	From: Jay	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH 660 Progress

Hi Jim H., All, It's looking good, the slightly heavier handrails match the stout appearance of the locomotive. Is the pitting, as you call it, of the bronze castings due to a rough sand casting or some surface corrosion afterwards? Mine seems to be a tad smoother, though it could possibly be due to a past modeler's refinishing work. The side and cab looks good in the photos, but I see what looks like corrosion on the hood end - there may be a way to chemically brighten that beyound the usual cleaning process - anyone have ideas? W. Jay W. ,--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > I sent these pictures although it won't look like much > progress. The bronze body casting is very pitted. Since I don't think > I'll be painting it I don't want to use small dabs of epoxy. I don't > want it looking like a leopard. I am trying to sand off old solder > especially around steps and sanding pitted areas to try to take out some > of it. > > As you can see I formed new handrails. The one picture has them > just stuck in the holes so they are not in line or square. Just wanted > to get an idea . I must drill all the holes larger. It had .020 wire > which is a little flimsy. I went to .032 wire for some strength and then > realized I don't have drill bits for it. Since 1/32" is .03125 and the > wire is .032 I have to check what would be the first drill bit bigger > then .032 and then find some bits. Closes Hobby Shop over a hour away I > guess I'll have to try Harbor Freight or order from Micro Mark which > will slow things up. > > Ahead of where I started and looking good I think. Still > looking for matching set of side frames for the power truck. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18718	From: Jay	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: Die Cast GG-1's Bowser or Penn Line

Hi, Penn Line had several mostly minor revisions to the GG-1 over the production life that continued for a while as Varney and very brifely packaged and advertised as Life-Like. Here is the link for the Bowser Penn Line drawings of the early and later versions: http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/gg1ref.pdf HOSeeker had the original assembly booklet beginning on this page: http://www.hoseeker.com/pennlineinstructions.html Once you have the modern parts numbers, its easy to look them up in Bowser's on line in stock list or call them as Jake suggested. The only caveat is to make sure all your models are Penn Line, as General Hobbies imported some knock-offs that look similar, but have metric fittings, etc. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Right up front I'd give Bowser a call and see if they can help. Since > they [urchased the Pittman line they couldbe your best source if they > still have some in stock. > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > On 3/20/12, dasha <dasha469@...> wrote: > > I have over the years collected three old GG-1 models and there parts, but > > the motors and drive gears have always been a mystery to me. Now that I've > > retired, I ve taken them out and I thought that our group might have the > > best advisors for obtaining and installing a new motor and gear system that > > is correct , if that is possible. Has anyone excelled in GG-1's lol , thank > > you for your reply > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18719	From: takefive247	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Mantua Products list

I put a partial copy of my database of the Mantua products (engines and rolling stock), listed in the early catalogs in the files section of this group. In Bill G's. Mantua list. Because it's a copy and paste from an old data program I use, tabs and spaces got moved around but it's a start and I will be working on fixing it. In the meantime anyone interested in proof reading, filling in some blanks or adding data fields for clarity. Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18720	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: ID ebay item

Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long haul on the outside but inside is different. MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18721	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Bill,   Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don’t know how long it was produced. On hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was apparently short lived.   Yours must be of those early 80’s. The one on eBay not a production model. This is and “parts mingling” model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it’s a Mikado drive? Check the crosshead guides. The production Berk’s used Alligator guides while the Mike’s used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I’ve seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. Look hard as he didn’t provide large enough photo for my taste but they are there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender.   I never knew that Mantua had any loco’s with Alligator crosshead guides until I saw Dan’s auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item     Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long haul on the outside but inside is different. MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18722	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn’t. It was a long haul but a plastic one.   Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had Alligators all right. I’ll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet they do.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hagen Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item     Bill,   Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don’t know how long it was produced. On hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was apparently short lived.   Yours must be of those early 80’s. The one on eBay not a production model. This is and “parts mingling” model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it’s a Mikado drive? Check the crosshead guides. The production Berk’s used Alligator guides while the Mike’s used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I’ve seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. Look hard as he didn’t provide large enough photo for my taste but they are there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender.   I never knew that Mantua had any loco’s with Alligator crosshead guides until I saw Dan’s auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item     Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long haul on the outside but inside is different. MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18723	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped around. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > plastic one. > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > they do. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > apparently short lived. > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18724	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

OK, First I have to tell you I don't know a thing about RR lingo. Just this week I realized there were different "Pacifics" in the same year But I am trying. I'll have to look again at those photos on ebay. I was pretty sure the one I was talkig about was the same as the one I have. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > plastic one. > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > they do. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > apparently short lived. > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18725	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable.   So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 – 1957.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped around. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > plastic one. > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > they do. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > apparently short lived. > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18726	From: william witte	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

There are three tenders for the Reading steam locomotives. One made of sheet steel, 1938-1939. The second one is made of sheet brass, 1940-1942. The third one is die-cast zamac (Kit T-244), 1947 to the mid 1950's. The Pre-War tenders came in kit or Ready-to-Run form. The Post-War zamac tender  was only cataloged as a kit. From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item   Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable.   So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 – 1957.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped around. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > plastic one. > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > they do. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: ymailto="mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com">vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > apparently short lived. > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > To: target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com">vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18727	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: 100% Mantua

Attachments : IMG_7804_1-18727.JPG Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of my collection. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18728	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Oops, caught me sleeping at the throttle.   Yer right, the cast tender came on the post WWll engines. And I was not aware there was a sheet steel one before the sheet brass tender. I guess I got it all brass-asswards.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of william witte Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     There are three tenders for the Reading steam locomotives. One made of sheet steel, 1938-1939. The second one is made of sheet brass, 1940-1942. The third one is die-cast zamac (Kit T-244), 1947 to the mid 1950's. The Pre-War tenders came in kit or Ready-to-Run form. The Post-War zamac tender  was only cataloged as a kit.   From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable.   So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 – 1957.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped around. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > plastic one. > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > they do. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > apparently short lived. > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18729	From: takefive247	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua

Jim, I would not have a clue. I just got into the collecting when I was getting ready to retire. About ten years ago. Mantua because that was my first more then 50 years ago. Trying to catch up learn and get the facts straight. Nice looking engine. Tell us about it. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) > > I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and > show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you > you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of > my collection. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18730	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim, That looks like it came from a couple of Pacifics and a pair of Atlantics. Maybe around 1954? There was a 1953 article on converting 2 0-4-0 into a 2-4-4-2 articlulated in the '53 RMC so I'm just guessing here. Jake On 3/22/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) > > I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and > show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you > you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of > my collection. > Jim H > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18731	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua

Jake, Bill,      Jake your pretty good at what parts were used but wrong on Atlantic Drivers. The engine in much worse shape was on eBay and caught my eye. They are Pacific drivers minus one from each set. The frames were reworked and the engine I got would just spin on the track. Added weight, adjusted the two geared drivers slightly down to ride on the track. I had it pulling 20 cars but went no further This engine in a much worse shape was on eBay and caught my eye. It was articulated but needed about 32"track and I worked on it to take 18" radius, Where the two bodies joined there was a coke bottle effect that I fill in level. I also had to make a second sand dome to match the one on part of the  body.     This engine was made in 2010. I worked from plans were in my head . It has now joined my "Fantasy" of vintage engines. It is one of a kind and since I like NYC Indian names on some of their engines I call it the Mohican. Bill, I know you are kind of starting out but thought I have some fun.  Maybe learn a little bit.                                                                     Jim  On 3/22/2012 7:56 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Hi Jim, That looks like it came from a couple of Pacifics and a pair of Atlantics. Maybe around 1954? There was a 1953 article on converting 2 0-4-0 into a 2-4-4-2 articlulated in the '53 RMC so I'm just guessing here. Jake On 3/22/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) > > I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and > show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you > you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of > my collection. > Jim H > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18732	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua

Maybe two spliced die cast Mikado boilers with two cut down Pacific frames? John B. Allyn From: "takefive247" <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:50:10 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 100% Mantua   Jim, I would not have a clue. I just got into the collecting when I was getting ready to retire. About ten years ago. Mantua because that was my first more then 50 years ago. Trying to catch up learn and get the facts straight. Nice looking engine. Tell us about it. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) > > I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and > show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you > you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of > my collection. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18733	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua

Cool Jinm. - 2010! The B&O Pacific was new in 52 and I thought one of the oldtimers got energenic and tore a couple up to make an articulated! Even so, it is probaly a more useful loco than the T1! with it's rgid fram and big drivers. Jake On 3/22/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > Jake, Bill, > > Jake your pretty good at what parts were used but wrong on > Atlantic Drivers. The engine in much worse shape was on eBay and caught > my eye. They are Pacific drivers minus one from each set. The frames > were reworked and the engine I got would just spin on the track. Added > weight, adjusted the two geared drivers slightly down to ride on the > track. I had it pulling 20 cars but went no further This engine in a > much worse shape was on eBay and caught my eye. It was articulated but > needed about 32"track and I worked on it to take 18" radius, Where the > two bodies joined there was a coke bottle effect that I fill in level. I > also had to make a second sand dome to match the one on part of the body. > > This engine was made in 2010. I worked from plans were in my head . > It has now joined my "Fantasy" of vintage engines. It is one of a kind > and since I like NYC Indian names on some of their engines I call it the > Mohican. > Bill, I know you are kind of starting out but thought I have some fun. > Maybe learn a little bit. > > Jim > > > > > On 3/22/2012 7:56 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote: >> >> Hi Jim, >> That looks like it came from a couple of Pacifics and a pair of >> Atlantics. Maybe around 1954? There was a 1953 article on converting >> 2 0-4-0 into a 2-4-4-2 articlulated in the '53 RMC so I'm just >> guessing here. >> Jake >> >> On 3/22/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@... >> <mailto:jimheck%40losch.net>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) >> > >> > I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and >> > show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you >> > you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of >> > my collection. >> > Jim H >> > >> > >> >> > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18734	From: takefive247	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua

Jim, I'm confused enough with factory built. Your just trying to make me crazy. :-) Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Jake, Bill, > > Jake your pretty good at what parts were used but wrong on > Atlantic Drivers. The engine in much worse shape was on eBay and caught > my eye. They are Pacific drivers minus one from each set. The frames > were reworked and the engine I got would just spin on the track. Added > weight, adjusted the two geared drivers slightly down to ride on the > track. I had it pulling 20 cars but went no further This engine in a > much worse shape was on eBay and caught my eye. It was articulated but > needed about 32"track and I worked on it to take 18" radius, Where the > two bodies joined there was a coke bottle effect that I fill in level. I > also had to make a second sand dome to match the one on part of the body. > > This engine was made in 2010. I worked from plans were in my head . > It has now joined my "Fantasy" of vintage engines. It is one of a kind > and since I like NYC Indian names on some of their engines I call it the > Mohican. > Bill, I know you are kind of starting out but thought I have some fun. > Maybe learn a little bit. > > Jim > > > > > On 3/22/2012 7:56 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote: > > > > Hi Jim, > > That looks like it came from a couple of Pacifics and a pair of > > Atlantics. Maybe around 1954? There was a 1953 article on converting > > 2 0-4-0 into a 2-4-4-2 articlulated in the '53 RMC so I'm just > > guessing here. > > Jake > > > > On 3/22/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@... > > <mailto:jimheck%40losch.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill ( takefive247 ) > > > > > > I thought since your into Mantua I'd test you for the fun of it and > > > show you this 4-4-4-2 engine made with 100% Mantua parts and see if you > > > you have any idea when this was made. It's fully articulated and part of > > > my collection. > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18735	From: takefive247	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

William, That makes sence but.!!! What do we have to conferm it. When did the bigger long haul (what I call long haul) die cast tenders come in to the picture and how many different types before the plastic. And if you are right, were the fright cars before 39 made of sheet steel also? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > There are three tenders for the Reading steam locomotives. One made of sheet steel, 1938-1939. The second one is made of sheet brass, 1940-1942. The third one is die-cast zamac (Kit T-244), 1947 to the mid 1950's. The Pre-War tenders came in kit or Ready-to-Run form. The Post-War zamac tender  was only cataloged as a kit. > > > > ________________________________ > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:25 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > >   > Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable. >   > So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 â€" 1957. >   > John Hagen >   > From:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item >   >   > I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. > BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? > > The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel > trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. > > I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped > around. > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > > they do. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of John Hagen > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > Bill > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18736	From: william witte	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

I have the 1938, 39, 40, 41 and 42 catalogues. I also have a  pre-war brass tender in my  collection. I have seen at least to steel versions of the pre-war tender.   The 1938 catalogue lists a gondola, flat car and a bobber caboose.   The long haul tender is not listed in the 1948 catalog. I have an  instruction sheet for it dated 10/49. There are at least two versions of the zamac long haul tender.     From: takefive247 <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item   William, That makes sence but.!!! What do we have to conferm it. When did the bigger long haul (what I call long haul) die cast tenders come in to the picture and how many different types before the plastic. And if you are right, were the fright cars before 39 made of sheet steel also? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > There are three tenders for the Reading steam locomotives. One made of sheet steel, 1938-1939. The second one is made of sheet brass, 1940-1942. The third one is die-cast zamac (Kit T-244), 1947 to the mid 1950's. The Pre-War tenders came in kit or Ready-to-Run form. The Post-War zamac tender  was only cataloged as a kit. > > > > ________________________________ > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:25 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > >   > Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable. >   > So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 â€" 1957. >   > John Hagen >   > From:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item >   >   > I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. > BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? > > The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel > trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. > > I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped > around. > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > > they do. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of John Hagen > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > Bill > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18737	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Attachments : mantuacatalog1953pg06.jpg The diecast “long haul” tender did not come out until the Mikado was introduced in 1948. And that was the diecast, deep coal bin, no load and four wheel trucks. It was simply called the Mikado tender.   In the 1953 catalog on hoseeker.net, it show both the Pacific and the Mikado and only in the Mikado descriptive text does it call it the “long distance” tender. This would be the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks, shallow coal bin and the screw in coal load.   So far as I know, the tender(s) supplied with the Reading brass loco’s, prewar, postwar, sheet metal or cast, it was just called the “tender”. Since the Reading Atlantic and Pacific were still available until the die cast Pacific arrived, both styles of tender were available concurrently for a time. Mantua also had a tender for the Goat and Mite and one for the Mogul and Belle. Plus, somewhere along the way the Shifter was introduced before the Atlantic and it had its own diecast, slope back tender. So there were a few available from 1948 (or so) until 1953 (or so).   As soon as I get the go ahead from the top management and I get my Model Railroader disc with the first 75 years on it, I’ll be able to do some real searching for dates of introductions and such. Yeah I could go through my stacks of magazines but I just don’t have the time.   I’ve attached a copy of the 1953 catalog page #6 from hoseeker.net for your easy inspection.   BTW, any one that’s interested, I have a few MR’s from the 30’s and early 40’s and just about all of them from around 48 on. And they will all be going as part my negotiations for the disc.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of william witte Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 1:25 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     I have the 1938, 39, 40, 41 and 42 catalogues. I also have a  pre-war brass tender in my  collection. I have seen at least to steel versions of the pre-war tender.   The 1938 catalogue lists a gondola, flat car and a bobber caboose.   The long haul tender is not listed in the 1948 catalog. I have an  instruction sheet for it dated 10/49. There are at least two versions of the zamac long haul tender.     From: takefive247 <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     William, That makes sence but.!!! What do we have to conferm it. When did the bigger long haul (what I call long haul) die cast tenders come in to the picture and how many different types before the plastic. And if you are right, were the fright cars before 39 made of sheet steel also? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > There are three tenders for the Reading steam locomotives. One made of sheet steel, 1938-1939. The second one is made of sheet brass, 1940-1942. The third one is die-cast zamac (Kit T-244), 1947 to the mid 1950's. The Pre-War tenders came in kit or Ready-to-Run form. The Post-War zamac tender  was only cataloged as a kit. > > > > ________________________________ > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:25 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > >   > Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable. >   > So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 â€" 1957. >   > John Hagen >   > From:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item >   >   > I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. > BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? > > The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel > trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. > > I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped > around. > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > > they do. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of John Hagen > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > Bill > > >

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18738	From: takefive247	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

William There is a long haul tender (or Mikado type) is the 1948, third edition. Which I think was put out for 48/49 or 50. Kit #300. Is that not the same tender that became the tender for both Pacifics in 1953? I assune that would still be the die cast with deep coal bin. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote: > > I have the 1938, 39, 40, 41 and 42 catalogues. I also have a  pre-war brass tender in my  collection. I have seen at least to steel versions of the pre-war tender. >   > The 1938 catalogue lists a gondola, flat car and a bobber caboose. >   > The long haul tender is not listed in the 1948 catalog. I have an  instruction sheet for it dated 10/49. There are at least two versions of the zamac long haul tender. >   >   > > ________________________________ > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:08 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > >   > William, > That makes sence but.!!! What do we have to conferm it. When did the bigger long haul > (what I call long haul) die cast tenders come in to the picture and how many different types > before the plastic. And if you are right, were the fright cars before 39 made of sheet steel > also? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, william witte <hmbb56@> wrote: > > > > There are three tenders for the Reading steam locomotives. One made of sheet steel, 1938-1939. The second one is made of sheet brass, 1940-1942. The third one is die-cast zamac (Kit T-244), 1947 to the mid 1950's. The Pre-War tenders came in kit or Ready-to-Run form. The Post-War zamac tender  was only cataloged as a kit. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:25 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > > > > >   > > Well, tenders are generally pretty swapable. > >   > > So far as I know, there were two tenders for the brass steamers; cast (prewar and sheet (postwar). Then there was the first diecast tender without a coal load and four wheel trucks. Next was the frameless diecast tender with six wheel trucks and the shallow coal bin and screw in load. After that they came out with the plastic body. Whether that one was available by 1957 is open for discussion. I THINK it was but that is not guaranteed. So my count is four metal tenders and maybe a plastic one from 1937 â€" 1957. > >   > > John Hagen > >   > > From:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:53 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > >   > >   > > I wrote this before I read the previous posts. Let me do that and get back to you. > > BTW. How do you attach photos to posts? > > > > The discussion on the Mantua tenders has more questions for me then answers. l have several of the long haul die cast tenders. I have two with the deep coal bin. One has the wrong, I think, four wheel trucks (came with a Mike kit someone tried to put 4 wheel > > trucks on). The other with 6 wheel trucks. (came with the built Berkshire of my previous post. Both of these have the plug in pick up connection on the tender. > > > > I have the die cast shallow coal bin with 6 wheel trucks with another Mike and one with a pacific. Is it posible we could have 7 (including the sheet steel), tenders for the big locomotives for the years between n1937 and 1953? All of which could be swapped > > around. > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > > > they do. > > > > > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > Of John Hagen > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > Of takefive247 > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > > > Bill > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18739	From: Nelson	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: 100% Mantua

Jim, I still love that thing, and it was fun to watch you rebuild it. It can pull 20 cars with only the rear drivers powered? Not bad. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Jake, Bill, > > Jake your pretty good at what parts were used but wrong on > Atlantic Drivers. The engine in much worse shape was on eBay and caught > my eye. They are Pacific drivers minus one from each set. The frames > were reworked and the engine I got would just spin on the track. Added > weight, adjusted the two geared drivers slightly down to ride on the > track. I had it pulling 20 cars but went no further This engine in a > much worse shape was on eBay and caught my eye. It was articulated but > needed about 32"track and I worked on it to take 18" radius, Where the > two bodies joined there was a coke bottle effect that I fill in level. I > also had to make a second sand dome to match the one on part of the body. > > This engine was made in 2010. I worked from plans were in my head . > It has now joined my "Fantasy" of vintage engines. It is one of a kind > and since I like NYC Indian names on some of their engines I call it the > Mohican. > Bill, I know you are kind of starting out but thought I have some fun. > Maybe learn a little bit. > > Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18740	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Attachments : For an engine like yours, check the “MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH SOUTHERN PACIFIC VANDERBILT TENDER” from the same seller. While it has a Vanderbilt tender, which could likely have come from Mantua as they were doing a lot of “kit mingling” themselves at the time, it is the production Berkshire with the Alligator crosshead guides.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:16 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     OK, First I have to tell you I don't know a thing about RR lingo. Just this week I realized there were different "Pacifics" in the same year But I am trying. I'll have to look again at those photos on ebay. I was pretty sure the one I was talkig about was the same as the one I have. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but a > plastic one. > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide assembly > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > they do. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. On > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of 1080. > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated 1987. > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it was > apparently short lived. > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with a > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check the > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that I've > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really into > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they are > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would be > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? I > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18741	From: takefive247	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

John, That one is a lot newer then what I have. Althought the tender on mine is plastic I still think the engine is much okder. Probibly not a production run. I still have a lot to learn about it. Like what is the Alligator crosshead guide? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > For an engine like yours, check the "MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH SOUTHERN > PACIFIC VANDERBILT TENDER > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANTUA-2-8-4-BERKSHIRE-WITH-SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-VANDER > BILT-TENDER-/300683525722?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4602227e5a> " from the > same seller. While it has a Vanderbilt tender, which could likely have come > from Mantua as they were doing a lot of "kit mingling" themselves at the > time, it is the production Berkshire with the Alligator crosshead guides. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:16 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > > > > > > OK, First I have to tell you I don't know a thing about RR lingo. Just this > week I realized there were different "Pacifics" in the same year But I am > trying. > > I'll have to look again at those photos on ebay. I was pretty sure the one I > was talkig about was the same as the one I have. > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but > a > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide > assembly > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > > they do. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of John Hagen > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. > On > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of > 1080. > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated > 1987. > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it > was > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with > a > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check > the > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that > I've > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really > into > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they > are > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would > be > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? > I > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > Bill > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18742	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Attachments : m760-12.jpg Bill,   The Alligator jaws have two guide bars, one above and one bellow the crosshead. Think of an alligator’s open jaws.   For an illustration check this tutorial from yardbirdtrains.com on installing an Alligator guide conversion on a Mantua Mikado.   http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBM760kit.htm   Notice Fig. 11, a very good shot of the guides installed on the cylinder block. For a somewhat better view with the shadows removed check the modified fig. 11 I attached to this email.   BTW, this kit is made using parts from the Mantua production Berkshire/Tyco Consolidation.   So far as your Berk not being a production that is entirely possible. Adding a four wheel trailing truck to a Mantua Mikado was a oft done modification albeit the Pacific boiler swap was not done as often. I believe the first Berkshire conversion I saw was before the Pacific was introduced. The problem back then was the lack of a short wheelbase trailing truck at the time made these conversion a bit on the ungainly side. One enterprising modeler extended the boiler casting directly of front of the cab using a shaped block of wood to avoid the problem. From a bit of a distance it looked good but close up the added piece was obvious even though the modeler matched the shape very well. Using today’s materials it could be done better.   I don’t remember what four wheel trailing trucks were available back in the 50’s. Not many. The only one I recall being available in the 1950 – 195? Era was the Bowser Challenger’s, definitely a longer wheelbase than, say, a NYC Hudson. SO in the somewhat more “modern” era, using a Pacific boiler and Mantua’s trailing truck makes a very passable Berkshire out of a Mikado drive.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 5:40 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item     John, That one is a lot newer then what I have. Althought the tender on mine is plastic I still think the engine is much okder. Probibly not a production run. I still have a lot to learn about it. Like what is the Alligator crosshead guide? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > For an engine like yours, check the "MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH SOUTHERN > PACIFIC VANDERBILT TENDER > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANTUA-2-8-4-BERKSHIRE-WITH-SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-VANDER > BILT-TENDER-/300683525722?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4602227e5a> " from the > same seller. While it has a Vanderbilt tender, which could likely have come > from Mantua as they were doing a lot of "kit mingling" themselves at the > time, it is the production Berkshire with the Alligator crosshead guides. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:16 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > > > > > > OK, First I have to tell you I don't know a thing about RR lingo. Just this > week I realized there were different "Pacifics" in the same year But I am > trying. > > I'll have to look again at those photos on ebay. I was pretty sure the one I > was talkig about was the same as the one I have. > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on the > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul but > a > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came from. > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide > assembly > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna bet > > they do. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of John Hagen > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was produced. > On > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of > 1080. > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated > 1987. > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it > was > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production model. > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up with > a > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check > the > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that > I've > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the post > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really > into > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten bucks > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead guides. > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they > are > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That would > be > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was made? > I > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > Bill > > >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18743	From: takefive247	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: ID ebay item

Thanks for that info John. I will have to get some better photos of the engine and we talk more. It will have to wait because I am getting mixed up with the posts. I just said the tender on mine was plastic. My Berkshire has the die cast tender. It's the brass ??? Pacific that came to me wuth a plastic long haul tender with the 4 wheel trucks. The Berkshire is another whole story. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > > > The Alligator jaws have two guide bars, one above and one bellow the > crosshead. Think of an alligator's open jaws. > > > > For an illustration check this tutorial from yardbirdtrains.com on > installing an Alligator guide conversion on a Mantua Mikado. > > > > http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBM760kit.htm > > > > Notice Fig. 11, a very good shot of the guides installed on the cylinder > block. For a somewhat better view with the shadows removed check the > modified fig. 11 I attached to this email. > > > > BTW, this kit is made using parts from the Mantua production Berkshire/Tyco > Consolidation. > > > > So far as your Berk not being a production that is entirely possible. Adding > a four wheel trailing truck to a Mantua Mikado was a oft done modification > albeit the Pacific boiler swap was not done as often. I believe the first > Berkshire conversion I saw was before the Pacific was introduced. The > problem back then was the lack of a short wheelbase trailing truck at the > time made these conversion a bit on the ungainly side. One enterprising > modeler extended the boiler casting directly of front of the cab using a > shaped block of wood to avoid the problem. From a bit of a distance it > looked good but close up the added piece was obvious even though the modeler > matched the shape very well. Using today's materials it could be done > better. > > > > I don't remember what four wheel trailing trucks were available back in the > 50's. Not many. The only one I recall being available in the 1950 - 195? Era > was the Bowser Challenger's, definitely a longer wheelbase than, say, a NYC > Hudson. SO in the somewhat more "modern" era, using a Pacific boiler and > Mantua's trailing truck makes a very passable Berkshire out of a Mikado > drive. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of takefive247 > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 5:40 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > > > > > John, > That one is a lot newer then what I have. Althought the tender on mine is > plastic I still think the engine is much okder. Probibly not a production > run. I still have a lot to learn about it. Like what is the Alligator > crosshead guide? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > For an engine like yours, check the "MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH SOUTHERN > > PACIFIC VANDERBILT TENDER > > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANTUA-2-8-4-BERKSHIRE-WITH-SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-VANDER > > BILT-TENDER-/300683525722?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4602227e5a> " from > the > > same seller. While it has a Vanderbilt tender, which could likely have > come > > from Mantua as they were doing a lot of "kit mingling" themselves at the > > time, it is the production Berkshire with the Alligator crosshead guides. > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of takefive247 > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:16 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, First I have to tell you I don't know a thing about RR lingo. Just > this > > week I realized there were different "Pacifics" in the same year But I am > > trying. > > > > I'll have to look again at those photos on ebay. I was pretty sure the one > I > > was talkig about was the same as the one I have. > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > > > I hate it when I do this. Sorry I thought I saw a Vanderbilt tender on > the > > > Berkshire parts and instruction booklet. I didn't. It was a long haul > but > > a > > > plastic one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, I think I found where the Alligator crosshead guide parts came > from. > > > The Tyco Consolidations. I checked their catalogs and the Consi had > > > Alligators all right. I'll have to dig mine out to see if the guide > > assembly > > > screws to the cylinder block like on the Berkshire. How much ya wanna > bet > > > they do. > > > > > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf > > > Of John Hagen > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:19 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantua did make a Berkshire in 1980. Don't know how long it was > produced. > > On > > > hoseeker.net there is a parts and instruction booklet with the date of > > 1080. > > > I checked a couple of the later catalogs there starting with one dated > > 1987. > > > That is the closest one and neither or a later one shows the Berk. So it > > was > > > apparently short lived. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours must be of those early 80's. The one on eBay not a production > model. > > > This is and "parts mingling" model using a Mikado drive with a Pacific > > > boiler and a Hudson trailing truck. Somewhere he was able to come up > with > > a > > > first generation long haul tender. That would be the only diecast tender > > > that four wheel trucks would fit. How to tell it's a Mikado drive? Check > > the > > > crosshead guides. The production Berk's used Alligator guides while the > > > Mike's used the regular Laird style. This is the only Mantua loco that > > I've > > > seen the used these Alligator crosshead guides. Well, at least of the > post > > > war diecast era. If you check the sellers other items he is/was really > > into > > > the diecast stuff. And he also has a production Berk listed for ten > bucks > > > more than this one. And, yes, that one has the Alligator crosshead > guides. > > > Look hard as he didn't provide large enough photo for my taste but they > > are > > > there along with the proper Vanderbilt tender. > > > > > > > > > > > > I never knew that Mantua had any loco's with Alligator crosshead guides > > > until I saw Dan's auction for a conversion kit for the Mikado. That > would > > be > > > great for anyone doing a USRA Mike using a Cary shell. > > > > > > > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf > > > Of takefive247 > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:40 PM > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [vintageHO] ID ebay item > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would someone tell me how to ID this as Mantua and what years it was > made? > > I > > > have one but can't find any marking. Tender looks the same as other long > > > haul on the outside but inside is different. > > > > > > MANTUA 2-8-4 BERKSHIRE WITH METAL TENDER on ebay > > > > > > Bill > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18744	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660 Progress

Attachments : IMG_7804-18744.JPG W Jay W, All, Progress is slow on the Walthers HH660 as I wait for #66 drill bits to drill and ream (small holes already drilled) for .032 wire. Also I need to find pair of side frames for the power truck. Varney trucks are a "close" match but I would have to cut the off the bolster , drill bigger holes to accept the heavier shafts on the Walthers 6 volt motor and then join the 2 side frames together with a piece of flexible brass so I could slip it under the power truck and up over the wheel shafts. A lot of work and not a good match. As I mentioned before the later cast lead version the side frames are not close. As I wait I have made the handrails for the long walkways and for the front and back pilots, 4 corner step down ladders, the bases but not the long straps for the 4 steps front and back that attach to the pilots underneath and last the 5 steps that fit in holes going up the front of the body. I've been trying to clean and smooth the body and roof. I have the roof in good shape but for a final fine sanding. The body is worse. Hard to clean the rough high sandy like spots on the walkways. Hard material to even file off. Some holes in the body had to be filed. To deep to sand out. There are low areas on the body that are like scalely sections and the casting has lots of spider like veins running through it. Jay these are not complaints. I'm thrilled with the engine but I doubt I will get it as smooth as the Conover 2-10-2. We will see what we can do. Will take time but I have that. I never saw a casting with so many different types of problems.I don't want to paint the engine. Now don't be mad for me stating this. I wanted to warn people if possible to look close at Walthers HH660 bodies. Again Jay not a complaint just facts that might help recognize a problem in some of these bodies. After all made circa 1938 and I believe you said sand casted. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18745	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Progress [1 Attachment]

Jim and all, In my opinion, what you've got done so far looks good to me! I have yet to find all the pieces to my cast lead version, but when I do, seeing your progress on yours inspires me to get mine put together again, especially considering I had mine set up for two motors. The dummy truck mount lug under the cab is interesting: On mine there is no such lug, and both trucks mount to the inside of the roof I believe. Hard to remember exactly how the dummy truck mounted, but it did not use a lug like that. Also, mine had the power truck inside the cab, which is what the instructions called for. I wish I had the time for more projects like this. If I end up with knee surgery soon, I suppose I might have my wish for a couple weeks or so. But then, I still hope the MRI results show as not needing it! Will know early next week on that. By the way, Jim, how are the truck sideframes on yours different from the lead version, or am I misreading that? On my lead locomotive, the power and dummy trucks had sideframes just like yours. They appear to be coach truck sideframes with a slight modification to the extreme ends. Thanks Steve --- On Sat, 3/24/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 Progress [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:37 PM   W Jay W, All, Progress is slow on the Walthers HH660 as I wait for #66 drill bits to drill and ream (small holes already drilled) for .032 wire. Also I need to find pair of side frames for the power truck. Varney trucks are a "close" match but I would have to cut the off the bolster , drill bigger holes to accept the heavier shafts on the Walthers 6 volt motor and then join the 2 side frames together with a piece of flexible brass so I could slip it under the power truck and up over the wheel shafts. A lot of work and not a good match. As I mentioned before the later cast lead version the side frames are not close. As I wait I have made the handrails for the long walkways and for the front and back pilots, 4 corner step down ladders, the bases but not the long straps for the 4 steps front and back that attach to the pilots underneath and last the 5 steps that fit in holes going up the front of the body. I've been trying to clean and smooth the body and roof. I have the roof in good shape but for a final fine sanding. The body is worse. Hard to clean the rough high sandy like spots on the walkways. Hard material to even file off. Some holes in the body had to be filed. To deep to sand out. There are low areas on the body that are like scalely sections and the casting has lots of spider like veins running through it. Jay these are not complaints. I'm thrilled with the engine but I doubt I will get it as smooth as the Conover 2-10-2. We will see what we can do. Will take time but I have that. I never saw a casting with so many different types of problems.I don't want to paint the engine. Now don't be mad for me stating this. I wanted to warn people if possible to look close at Walthers HH660 bodies. Again Jay not a complaint just facts that might help recognize a problem in some of these bodies. After all made circa 1938 and I believe you said sand casted. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18746	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Progress

Steve, All,              A battery for the flash went in my digital camera so I can't show a picture. The side frames from the lead casting are slightly smaller and some details are different . The "grease" caps that are on the outside over the axles are different. The ones for the bronze engine has detail like the heads of the bolts are there and there in a raised circle in the middle. The ones for the cast lead are flat and I don't see any file marks taking them off. You have to hold one against the other to see the differences. Thanks for the comments. I hope you get to start on yours.      I don't know why that lug is there unless it's so you could use two motors by drilling a hole in it and taking out the bottom lug that is where you attach the dummy truck. The bronze version has the motor mounted in the front of the engine. Remember it's a6 volt motor and smaller then a 12 volt. That's why the bronze motor is up front and your cast lead version has it in the cab  I don't have the plans for the bronze version so I am guessing. Sound logical ?                                                 Jim H On 3/24/2012 7:02 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Jim and all, In my opinion, what you've got done so far looks good to me! I have yet to find all the pieces to my cast lead version, but when I do, seeing your progress on yours inspires me to get mine put together again, especially considering I had mine set up for two motors. The dummy truck mount lug under the cab is interesting: On mine there is no such lug, and both trucks mount to the inside of the roof I believe. Hard to remember exactly how the dummy truck mounted, but it did not use a lug like that. Also, mine had the power truck inside the cab, which is what the instructions called for. I wish I had the time for more projects like this. If I end up with knee surgery soon, I suppose I might have my wish for a couple weeks or so. But then, I still hope the MRI results show as not needing it! Will know early next week on that. By the way, Jim, how are the truck sideframes on yours different from the lead version, or am I misreading that? On my lead locomotive, the power and dummy trucks had sideframes just like yours. They appear to be coach truck sideframes with a slight modification to the extreme ends. Thanks Steve --- On Sat, 3/24/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 Progress [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:37 PM   W Jay W, All, Progress is slow on the Walthers HH660 as I wait for #66 drill bits to drill and ream (small holes already drilled) for .032 wire. Also I need to find pair of side frames for the power truck. Varney trucks are a "close" match but I would have to cut the off the bolster , drill bigger holes to accept the heavier shafts on the Walthers 6 volt motor and then join the 2 side frames together with a piece of flexible brass so I could slip it under the power truck and up over the wheel shafts. A lot of work and not a good match. As I mentioned before the later cast lead version the side frames are not close. As I wait I have made the handrails for the long walkways and for the front and back pilots, 4 corner step down ladders, the bases but not the long straps for the 4 steps front and back that attach to the pilots underneath and last the 5 steps that fit in holes going up the front of the body. I've been trying to clean and smooth the body and roof. I have the roof in good shape but for a final fine sanding. The body is worse. Hard to clean the rough high sandy like spots on the walkways. Hard material to even file off. Some holes in the body had to be filed. To deep to sand out. There are low areas on the body that are like scalely sections and the casting has lots of spider like veins running through it. Jay these are not complaints. I'm thrilled with the engine but I doubt I will get it as smooth as the Conover 2-10-2. We will see what we can do. Will take time but I have that. I never saw a casting with so many different types of problems.I don't want to paint the engine. Now don't be mad for me stating this. I wanted to warn people if possible to look close at Walthers HH660 bodies. Again Jay not a complaint just facts that might help recognize a problem in some of these bodies. After all made circa 1938 and I believe you said sand casted. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18747	From: Jay	Date: 3/24/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 Progress

Hi Jim H., Steve N. and All; Jim, you've made great progress! Since the steps are/were slightly different, or what's left of them on my two models, I'm going to make a guess that the fabrication of the footboard steps for the bronze version were left up to the modeler to make out of the material suppiled, just as in the 1940+ cast lead model, so those instructions can be a guide there. I would love to find a copy of the original 1938 instructions as well. Yes Steve, the first version of the Walthers four axle sideframes offered from 1937 into 1940, although the same wheelbase were very different - most obviously what you noticed, the first has simulated roller bearings, the later version square friction bearings, very similar to the regular 4 wheel passenger trucks. The first version roller bearing sideframes were also used for the first C&NW Gas Electric sold as "Taylor Made Models" by Walthers and further, were sand cast bronze as well, as they are on one of my HH600's, too. (I have to unpack and check the second). Jim, are your roller bearing sideframes also cast bronze/brass? Years ago, possibly in RMC, I thought I read that the total cast bronze Walthers HH600's made only numbered about 200, though can not find that reference now and may be mistaken. Someone other than Keith Wills wrote about vintage HO locomoties at that time, and think it might have been in one of his columns or in a subsequent Safety Valve letter or burried in a Carstens column. Does anyone else recall that? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Steve, All, > > A battery for the flash went in my digital camera so I > can't show a picture. The side frames from the lead casting are slightly > smaller and some details are different . The "grease" caps that are on > the outside over the axles are different. The ones for the bronze engine > has detail like the heads of the bolts are there and there in a raised > circle in the middle. The ones for the cast lead are flat and I don't > see any file marks taking them off. You have to hold one against the > other to see the differences. Thanks for the comments. I hope you get to > start on yours. > > I don't know why that lug is there unless it's so you could use > two motors by drilling a hole in it and taking out the bottom lug that > is where you attach the dummy truck. The bronze version has the motor > mounted in the front of the engine. Remember it's a6 volt motor and > smaller then a 12 volt. That's why the bronze motor is up front and your > cast lead version has it in the cab I don't have the plans for the > bronze version so I am guessing. > Sound logical ? > > Jim H > > > > On 3/24/2012 7:02 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > > Jim and all, > > > > In my opinion, what you've got done so far looks good to me! I have > > yet to find all the pieces to my cast lead version, but when I do, > > seeing your progress on yours inspires me to get mine put together > > again, especially considering I had mine set up for two motors. > > > > The dummy truck mount lug under the cab is interesting: On mine there > > is no such lug, and both trucks mount to the inside of the roof I > > believe. Hard to remember exactly how the dummy truck mounted, but it > > did not use a lug like that. Also, mine had the power truck inside the > > cab, which is what the instructions called for. > > > > I wish I had the time for more projects like this. If I end up with > > knee surgery soon, I suppose I might have my wish for a couple weeks > > or so. But then, I still hope the MRI results show as not needing it! > > Will know early next week on that. > > > > By the way, Jim, how are the truck sideframes on yours different from > > the lead version, or am I misreading that? On my lead locomotive, the > > power and dummy trucks had sideframes just like yours. They appear to > > be coach truck sideframes with a slight modification to the extreme ends. > > > > Thanks > > Steve > > > > --- On *Sat, 3/24/12, Jim Heckard /<jimheck@...>/* wrote: > > > > > > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 Progress [1 Attachment] > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:37 PM > > > > > > > > W Jay W, All, > > > > Progress is slow on the Walthers HH660 as I wait for #66 > > drill bits to drill and ream (small holes already drilled) for .032 > > wire. Also I need to find pair of side frames for the power truck. > > Varney trucks are a "close" match but I would have to cut the off the > > bolster , drill bigger holes to accept the heavier shafts on the > > Walthers 6 volt motor and then join the 2 side frames together with a > > piece of flexible brass so I could slip it under the power truck > > and up > > over the wheel shafts. A lot of work and not a good match. As I > > mentioned before the later cast lead version the side frames are > > not close. > > > > As I wait I have made the handrails for the long walkways and for > > the front and back pilots, 4 corner step down ladders, the bases > > but not > > the long straps for the 4 steps front and back that attach to the > > pilots > > underneath and last the 5 steps that fit in holes going up the > > front of > > the body. > > > > I've been trying to clean and smooth the body and roof. I have > > the roof in good shape but for a final fine sanding. The body is > > worse. > > Hard to clean the rough high sandy like spots on the walkways. Hard > > material to even file off. Some holes in the body had to be filed. To > > deep to sand out. There are low areas on the body that are like > > scalely > > sections and the casting has lots of spider like veins running > > through it. > > > > Jay these are not complaints. I'm thrilled with the engine but I > > doubt I will get it as smooth as the Conover 2-10-2. We will see > > what we > > can do. Will take time but I have that. I never saw a casting with so > > many different types of problems.I don't want to paint the engine. > > Now > > don't be mad for me stating this. I wanted to warn people if > > possible to > > look close at Walthers HH660 bodies. > > > > Again Jay not a complaint just facts that might help recognize a > > problem in some of these bodies. After all made circa 1938 and I > > believe > > you said sand casted. > > > > Jim H > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18748	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Mikado lomg haul tender

Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the deep coal bin? Bill G.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18749	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

Hi Bill,         Go to   www.hoseeker.net         Click on Literature         Scroll down to Mantua ( there are two, click on either one ) Click on Instructions/Parts Numbers         Click on Steam Engines          Scroll down to 5th row , first on the left    Look for Mikado1949          Click on it and you will find a 6 page Manuel. First 5 pages are parts nos. and assembly instructions. Last page No. 6 is the tender with the deep coal bin ( both parts numbers and a picture breakdown of the tender.                           Hope you find it. I have to inform Larry Stevenson he has two Mantua listings of Literature that are the same.                              Jim H     On 3/25/2012 10:06 AM, takefive247 wrote:   Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the deep coal bin? Bill G.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18750	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

Ya beats me to it there Jim, eh?   Funny if one reads through the instructions on that sheet and see what was required back in those days for a “easy to assemble” it would just scare the crap of some (remember I only said “some”, I know most if not all of the readers of this group wouldn’t be at all alarmed) of today’s modelers.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:46 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mikado lomg haul tender     Hi Bill,         Go to   www.hoseeker.net         Click on Literature         Scroll down to Mantua ( there are two, click on either one ) Click on Instructions/Parts Numbers         Click on Steam Engines          Scroll down to 5th row , first on the left    Look for Mikado1949          Click on it and you will find a 6 page Manuel. First 5 pages are parts nos. and assembly instructions. Last page No. 6 is the tender with the deep coal bin ( both parts numbers and a picture breakdown of the tender.                           Hope you find it. I have to inform Larry Stevenson he has two Mantua listings of Literature that are the same.                              Jim H     On 3/25/2012 10:06 AM, takefive247 wrote:   Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the deep coal bin? Bill G.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18751	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: HH660 side frames

Attachments : IMG_7809-18751.JPG Hi Jay, All, Sent a picture of side frames. The first one on the left is the dummy truck from the HH660 I won on eBay with 6 volt motor. The side frames are bronze but someone painted them silver. Have to clean it off. The bolster between is cast lead. Second picture from the left is a cast lead side frame set from the cast lead HH660 with 12 volt motor. Notice it has details changed. Last side frame is a Varney that is close but I would have to cut the bolster off and attached a piece of spring brass to them and then drill the holes larger to fit over the axle. A lot of work and not bronze. So I'll look awhile for the original bronze side frame. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18752	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

Someone once noted that Mantua, in its advertising immediately postwar, described its sheet brass engines (the Goat, the Belle, the 8-Ball Mogul, the Busy Bee) as being "easy assembly".  Just a few years later, in the age of the die cast Pacific, Mikado, Shifter, and Baldwin Sharknose, they described them as kits for the skilled craftsman.  All in the eye of the beholder, I guess. John B. Allyn From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:09:15 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mikado lomg haul tender   Ya beats me to it there Jim, eh?   Funny if one reads through the instructions on that sheet and see what was required back in those days for a “easy to assemble” it would just scare the crap of some (remember I only said “some”, I know most if not all of the readers of this group wouldn’t be at all alarmed) of today’s modelers.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:46 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mikado lomg haul tender     Hi Bill,         Go to   www.hoseeker.net         Click on Literature         Scroll down to Mantua ( there are two, click on either one ) Click on Instructions/Parts Numbers         Click on Steam Engines          Scroll down to 5th row , first on the left    Look for Mikado1949          Click on it and you will find a 6 page Manuel. First 5 pages are parts nos. and assembly instructions. Last page No. 6 is the tender with the deep coal bin ( both parts numbers and a picture breakdown of the tender.                           Hope you find it. I have to inform Larry Stevenson he has two Mantua listings of Literature that are the same.                              Jim H     On 3/25/2012 10:06 AM, takefive247 wrote:   Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the deep coal bin? Bill G.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18753	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

Thanks Jim, Not sure why I missed it before. There's a couple things here. That sheet shows the same part number for the tender body as the 52 and 53 Mikados as well as the 53 die cast Pacific. It also shows a part number 7003 being an elec. jack, not shown (not used) on the 53. The tender had a plug-in connection set-up. It also shows the 4 wheel trucks (49) and 6 wheel trucks (52)fit. So I assume John, you were talking about trouble to change them was with the small tender not the long haul. So does that put my Berkshire long before the 80's. When did the long haul tender change to the shallow coal bin? Does the plug-in set-up add a phase, run, whatever to our better understanding. Bill G. t --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Ya beats me to it there Jim, eh? > > > > Funny if one reads through the instructions on that sheet and see what was > required back in those days for a "easy to assemble" it would just scare the > crap of some (remember I only said "some", I know most if not all of the > readers of this group wouldn't be at all alarmed) of today's modelers. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:46 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mikado lomg haul tender > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > Go to www.hoseeker.net > > Click on Literature > > Scroll down to Mantua ( there are two, click on either one ) Click > on Instructions/Parts Numbers > > Click on Steam Engines > > Scroll down to 5th row , first on the left Look for Mikado1949 > > Click on it and you will find a 6 page Manuel. First 5 pages are > parts nos. and assembly instructions. Last page No. 6 is the tender with the > deep coal bin ( both parts numbers and a picture breakdown of the tender. > > > Hope you find it. I have to inform Larry Stevenson > he has two Mantua listings of Literature that are the same. > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/25/2012 10:06 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the > deep coal bin? > > Bill G. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18754	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: 2 old Mantua engines.

Anyone on this list bid on or see the ebay listing for the 2 older Mantua engines> that just closed. I would be interested to talk with the winner. Bill G.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18755	From: Alan	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: globe f7a

In case someone needs spare parts I noticed what looks to me to be a globe shell with hi-fi frame on e-bay,it is missing mechanism.Hopefully someone can use it. Item number: 140729120874 Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18756	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

You mention "it shows 4 wheel trucks (49) and six wheel trucks (52) fit" which I don't understand.    I'll take the sentence above and try to explain and remember sometimes catalogs and drawings are not 100%. The only Mantua tender with the deep coal bin was the earliest run with the 4 wheel trucks.   Both  the 49 and 52 tenders were long haul tenders of the same length. The 49 tender had a special bar that ran full length underneath the tender which had no bottom. This bar had places at each end where you attached it to the body and  the 4 wheel tender trucks.  If you took the 4 wheel trucks off and tried to attach 6 wheel trucks the holes in that bar are to close to the ends of the tender and 6 wheel trucks would not fit.  The 52 tender had no bottom only two post coming down from underneath the tender that were placed to attach the 6 wheel trucks. ( Now you could take the 6 wheel trucks of that 52 tender and put the 4 wheel trucks on those post but the but the spacing would be to far from each end making it look ridiculous.)                                             Jim H On 3/25/2012 4:07 PM, takefive247 wrote:   Thanks Jim, Not sure why I missed it before. There's a couple things here. That sheet shows the same part number for the tender body as the 52 and 53 Mikados as well as the 53 die cast Pacific. It also shows a part number 7003 being an elec. jack, not shown (not used) on the 53. The tender had a plug-in connection set-up. It also shows the 4 wheel trucks (49) and 6 wheel trucks (52)fit. So I assume John, you were talking about trouble to change them was with the small tender not the long haul. So does that put my Berkshire long before the 80's. When did the long haul tender change to the shallow coal bin? Does the plug-in set-up add a phase, run, whatever to our better understanding. Bill G. t --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Ya beats me to it there Jim, eh? > > > > Funny if one reads through the instructions on that sheet and see what was > required back in those days for a "easy to assemble" it would just scare the > crap of some (remember I only said "some", I know most if not all of the > readers of this group wouldn't be at all alarmed) of today's modelers. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:46 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mikado lomg haul tender > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > Go to www.hoseeker.net > > Click on Literature > > Scroll down to Mantua ( there are two, click on either one ) Click > on Instructions/Parts Numbers > > Click on Steam Engines > > Scroll down to 5th row , first on the left Look for Mikado1949 > > Click on it and you will find a 6 page Manuel. First 5 pages are > parts nos. and assembly instructions. Last page No. 6 is the tender with the > deep coal bin ( both parts numbers and a picture breakdown of the tender. > > > Hope you find it. I have to inform Larry Stevenson > he has two Mantua listings of Literature that are the same. > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/25/2012 10:06 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the > deep coal bin? > > Bill G. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18757	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

Bill,   I  can assure you that the six wheel trucks DO NOT FIT the diecast four wheel tender. Well, they probably fit but would look funny as hell. Nor do the four wheel trucks fit the six wheel tender. One may be able to screw them on but they would be able to swivel as they would hit the tender steps. The reason they do not interchange is really due a combination of the axle spacing and mounting screw location of the two types of trucks. That requires a different location for the mounting point. Take whatever style trucks you have on your tender and replace them with the other style.   Why Mantua used the same part number I do not know. But they used the same drawing showing the deep coal bin for the tender body in the early parts list as in the later lists and it just may be that someone thought it was “close enough.” And that drawing carried the number 2200. Now metal is metal and die castings are die castings and they are much less flexible than a parts listing. Errors happen. Stuff doesn’t get noticed for years. Probably by the time this error was noted the new, plastic bodied long haul tender with six wheel trucks and a frame to mount them on was on the drawing board. Take another look at the 1949 drawing. It shows the cast center sill used attach the four wheel trucks and the couplers. Notice in the later drawings even though the tender casting is the same drawing there is no center sill shown to attach the six wheel trucks. Why? Because there wasn’t any as the six wheel trucks attached to the posts in the tender body for the purpose of have a place to attach the trucks.   Here is the full list of diecast long haul or Mikado tenders.   1.  Introduced with the Mikado. It had a center sill to which the four wheel tender trucks were attached to. It also featured the deep coal bin without a load. 2.  Introduced with the Pacific and called the long haul but it was externally identical to the Mikado tender. It featured six wheel trucks attached to posts that extended down from the roof of the tender body casting. There was no center sill or frame. It also had the shallow coal bin and included a screw in coal load.   End of long haul diecast tenders. Finished. There are no more. Everything since has had the plastic shell that is very close in appearance to the diecast tenders except for things like cast on ladders and grab irons. The external dimensions of all three are for practical purposes identical.   Please recall that the tender I tried to put the six wheel trucks on was the Mikado tender per the 1949 drawing. Exactly like the 1949 drawing. Center sill and all. When the six wheels trucks appeared the center sill went away. However externally it appeared identical to the 1949 Mikado tender unless one turned it upside down.  And it had the same overall dimensions.   Oh yes, the plug in connection disappeared with the diecast frame for the plastic shelled tender.   One other thing. I previously somewhere in this tread that the production Berkshire was the only production Mantua locomotive to used the alligator style crosshead guides. Well. I just looked at my Also 0-8-0 and it also uses the Alligator style. Mea culpa.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:08 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mikado lomg haul tender     Thanks Jim, Not sure why I missed it before. There's a couple things here. That sheet shows the same part number for the tender body as the 52 and 53 Mikados as well as the 53 die cast Pacific. It also shows a part number 7003 being an elec. jack, not shown (not used) on the 53. The tender had a plug-in connection set-up. It also shows the 4 wheel trucks (49) and 6 wheel trucks (52)fit. So I assume John, you were talking about trouble to change them was with the small tender not the long haul. So does that put my Berkshire long before the 80's. When did the long haul tender change to the shallow coal bin? Does the plug-in set-up add a phase, run, whatever to our better understanding. Bill G. t --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Ya beats me to it there Jim, eh? > > > > Funny if one reads through the instructions on that sheet and see what was > required back in those days for a "easy to assemble" it would just scare the > crap of some (remember I only said "some", I know most if not all of the > readers of this group wouldn't be at all alarmed) of today's modelers. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:46 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mikado lomg haul tender > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > Go to www.hoseeker.net > > Click on Literature > > Scroll down to Mantua ( there are two, click on either one ) Click > on Instructions/Parts Numbers > > Click on Steam Engines > > Scroll down to 5th row , first on the left Look for Mikado1949 > > Click on it and you will find a 6 page Manuel. First 5 pages are > parts nos. and assembly instructions. Last page No. 6 is the tender with the > deep coal bin ( both parts numbers and a picture breakdown of the tender. > > > Hope you find it. I have to inform Larry Stevenson > he has two Mantua listings of Literature that are the same. > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/25/2012 10:06 AM, takefive247 wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an instruction sheet and parts list for the Mikado with the > deep coal bin? > > Bill G. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18758	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames [1 Attachment]

Are you looking for prototype accuracy or model accuracy. Those are all passenger car trucks. Every photo I've ever seen of a protoype HH has an early version of the blunt switcher truck. Otherwise use a heavy duty traction truck from Precision Scale or Ken Kidder. The earliest diesels rode on electric locomotive trucks. Don On 3/25/2012 1:04 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Hi Jay, All, > > > Sent a picture of side frames. The first one on the left is the > dummy truck from the HH660 I won on eBay with 6 volt motor. The side > frames are bronze but someone painted them silver. Have to clean it off. > The bolster between is cast lead. > > Second picture from the left is a cast lead side frame set from > the cast lead HH660 with 12 volt motor. Notice it has details changed. > > Last side frame is a Varney that is close but I would have to cut > the bolster off and attached a piece of spring brass to them and then > drill the holes larger to fit over the axle. A lot of work and not bronze. > > So I'll look awhile for the original bronze side frame. > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18759	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: U.S.A.T.C

Hi Guy's; I play with Europan and American model railroad. I am planing Layout . U.S, Army Transportation Corps, I got 2-8-0 Consolidation U.S.A.T.C . 0-8-0 Shifter/ USRA Tender. I got U.S. Army 10 Flatcar's, 2 Boxcar's ,1 Caboose I got ( German Nalional Railway ) DRG class 50 2-10-0 . ROCO,Liliput, Fleichmann , Lima 60 Freight car's 10 Passenger car's. America Fighting Railroads,Military Railway Service, Railroads in wartime Vol 1-3 combo DVD, War Trains (www.HistoricRail.com). I had a Stroke, I live in Gladstone,Oregon. Ray Lorts Sr

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18760	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames [1 Attachment]

Jim, Now it all makes sense. Having never seen the cast bronze HH660 in person, and most of the photos of yours thus far not showing the sideframes clearly (Hint to Don: Any way to make the pictures on their pages larger? So far they show very small, and clicking on them doesn't enlarge them as I would think it should!). I've never seen, to my recollection, a Walthers 4 wheel coach truck with roller bearing journals. All mine are friction bearing. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 3/25/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] HH660 side frames [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 1:04 PM   Hi Jay, All, Sent a picture of side frames. The first one on the left is the dummy truck from the HH660 I won on eBay with 6 volt motor. The side frames are bronze but someone painted them silver. Have to clean it off. The bolster between is cast lead. Second picture from the left is a cast lead side frame set from the cast lead HH660 with 12 volt motor. Notice it has details changed. Last side frame is a Varney that is close but I would have to cut the bolster off and attached a piece of spring brass to them and then drill the holes larger to fit over the axle. A lot of work and not bronze. So I'll look awhile for the original bronze side frame. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18761	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: U.S.A.T.C

Ray, I was in the Transportation Corps and went through OCS at Ft. Eustis. Had to make runs in an ALCO diesel and fire/run one of the 2-8-0's. Tough duty :-) Sadly, they frowned on taking pictures. This was in 1959/60. Alwasy thought it would be fun to have a layout...good luck with it. Regards, Dick W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18762	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames

Ashe pictures being larger, there should be a link above the picture on the left side to choose "med","Large" or "orig" . You ARE limited to the size of the original photo. Don On 3/25/2012 7:12 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > Jim, > > Now it all makes sense. Having never seen the cast bronze HH660 in person, and most of the photos of yours thus far not showing the sideframes clearly (Hint to Don: Any way to make the pictures on their pages larger? So far they show very small, and clicking on them doesn't enlarge them as I would think it should!). > > I've never seen, to my recollection, a Walthers 4 wheel coach truck with roller bearing journals. All mine are friction bearing. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18763	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames

Don, I never noticed that till now. Thanks! Got to go look at a bunch of group pictures again! Learn something new everyday, I suppose. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 3/25/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HH660 side frames To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 8:18 PM   Ashe pictures being larger, there should be a link above the picture on the left side to choose "med","Large" or "orig" . You ARE limited to the size of the original photo. Don On 3/25/2012 7:12 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > Jim, > > Now it all makes sense. Having never seen the cast bronze HH660 in person, and most of the photos of yours thus far not showing the sideframes clearly (Hint to Don: Any way to make the pictures on their pages larger? So far they show very small, and clicking on them doesn't enlarge them as I would think it should!). > > I've never seen, to my recollection, a Walthers 4 wheel coach truck with roller bearing journals. All mine are friction bearing. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18764	From: Jay	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 side frames [1 Attachment]

Hi Don D., When working with these vintage locomotives and kits from the beginning of HO circa the mid-1930's into the early 1950's, and especially with very hard to find models of any vintage, my goal is to restore them as best I can to their original configuration as they were sold to modelers of that era, much as an accomplished scale modeler of that time would build. That includes original motors and such. In this example and as the prototype Alco High Hood 600/660's and HH900/1000's are one of my favorites, in addition to the bronze and lead Walthers models, and to satisfy my scale modeling urge, I also have a Hallmark brass import HH 1000 from the late 1970's(?) and several of the Atlas HH600/660's imported in the last year or two. Side by side. Together, they demonstrate how the scale modeling part of the hobby has changed through one particular locomotive over 70 years. As far as the much more common lead 1940 version Walthers HH that was available into the mid-1980's as a kit, beside my yellow box original factory assembled body version whch I won't modify, I do have an extra one that I purchased as a kit from Walthers in the 1980's and extensively modified it with every accessory I could find to make that as close to scale as I could, lol, and that included an Athearn switcher power chassis with the correct Trackside Parts Blundt white metal sideframes, Cary Alco switcher handrail stanchions, etc. - all what a scale modeler would do with any model kit in avaiable in the 1980's. I do appreciate, for example, accessories that were made by other manufacturers for kits of the same era of the original kit. I do have an extra Zamac Varney F-3 and a NW-2 model and Jerry Martin clutch units for them, along with vintage Scale-Lite lighting kits to install and have those "upgraded models side by side with the original unmodifieds. And although I only have one Mantua Zamac Pacific and no Mikes, I am facinated by all of the Mellor modification parts that were available for them, as well as some of the earlier Kemtron modfification kits such as the all-weather cab. And there are enough of the Zamac and Zamac + plastic Mantua locomotives from the early 1950's forward that using them as a beginning for scale models of any number of prototypes can be fun. Especially when you look at the extra Cal Scale and Kemtron/Budd/Warren/Precision details one can add! Come to think of it, I have a Lee Town modification parts kit and the needed Mantua 2-8-0 to build a Jersey Central prototype - have to get to that! But would not be modifying or upgrading a hard to find pre WW-2 Mantua or Varney steam locomotive. It takes longer to go my route, but I have a lot of fun getting to know a particular vintage model and track down missing parts. Last year, I found that I had most, about 85% of the new old stock parts for a Varney Super Pacific in my parts "bins", so I quickly found the right boiler and cylinder/steam chest casting and now looking for about six remining parts, five common. The tough nut to find is the V-2 motor, but know I will find it and will not waste time substituting and rigging a geared open frame motor there. Meanwhile, I am learning what made those deluxe Varney Super models, so "super" and appreciate it all the more for sticking to the plans. Anyway, that is my take on things, but will be interesting to see how others feel, as there is room in our vintage hobby for all. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Are you looking for prototype accuracy or model accuracy. Those are all > passenger car trucks. Every photo I've ever seen of a protoype HH has > an early version of the blunt switcher truck. > > Otherwise use a heavy duty traction truck from Precision Scale or Ken > Kidder. The earliest diesels rode on electric locomotive trucks. > > Don > > On 3/25/2012 1:04 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jay, All, > > > > > > Sent a picture of side frames. The first one on the left is the > > dummy truck from the HH660 I won on eBay with 6 volt motor. The side > > frames are bronze but someone painted them silver. Have to clean it off. > > The bolster between is cast lead. > > > > Second picture from the left is a cast lead side frame set from > > the cast lead HH660 with 12 volt motor. Notice it has details changed. > > > > Last side frame is a Varney that is close but I would have to cut > > the bolster off and attached a piece of spring brass to them and then > > drill the holes larger to fit over the axle. A lot of work and not bronze. > > > > So I'll look awhile for the original bronze side frame. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18765	From: takefive247	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mikado lomg haul tender

I have to concede to you guys. The engine and tender sets I have were bought on ebay and apparently engines tenders and tender trucks were changed. I was sure I had it figured out with those part # and drawing. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > > > I can assure you that the six wheel trucks DO NOT FIT the diecast four > wheel tender. Well, they probably fit but would look funny as hell. Nor do > the four wheel trucks fit the six wheel tender. One may be able to screw > them on but they would be able to swivel as they would hit the tender steps. > The reason they do not interchange is really due a combination of the axle > spacing and mounting screw location of the two types of trucks. That > requires a different location for the mounting point. Take whatever style > trucks you have on your tender and replace them with the other style. > > > > Why Mantua used the same part number I do not know. But they used the same > drawing showing the deep coal bin for the tender body in the early parts > list as in the later lists and it just may be that someone thought it was > "close enough." And that drawing carried the number 2200. Now metal is metal > and die castings are die castings and they are much less flexible than a > parts listing. Errors happen. Stuff doesn't get noticed for years. Probably > by the time this error was noted the new, plastic bodied long haul tender > with six wheel trucks and a frame to mount them on was on the drawing board. > Take another look at the 1949 drawing. It shows the cast center sill used > attach the four wheel trucks and the couplers. Notice in the later drawings > even though the tender casting is the same drawing there is no center sill > shown to attach the six wheel trucks. Why? Because there wasn't any as the > six wheel trucks attached to the posts in the tender body for the purpose of > have a place to attach the trucks. > > > > Here is the full list of diecast long haul or Mikado tenders. > > > > 1. Introduced with the Mikado. It had a center sill to which the four wheel > tender trucks were attached to. It also featured the deep coal bin without a > load. > > 2. Introduced with the Pacific and called the long haul but it was > externally identical to the Mikado tender. It featured six wheel trucks > attached to posts that extended down from the roof of the tender body > casting. There was no center sill or frame. It also had the shallow coal bin > and included a screw in coal load. > > > > End of long haul diecast tenders. Finished. There are no more. Everything > since has had the plastic shell that is very close in appearance to the > diecast tenders except for things like cast on ladders and grab irons. The > external dimensions of all three are for practical purposes identical. > > > > Please recall that the tender I tried to put the six wheel trucks on was the > Mikado tender per the 1949 drawing. Exactly like the 1949 drawing. Center > sill and all. When the six wheels trucks appeared the center sill went away. > However externally it appeared identical to the 1949 Mikado tender unless > one turned it upside down. And it had the same overall dimensions. > > > > Oh yes, the plug in connection disappeared with the diecast frame for the > plastic shelled tender. > > > > One other thing. I previously somewhere in this tread that the production > Berkshire was the only production Mantua locomotive to used the alligator > style crosshead guides. Well. I just looked at my Also 0-8-0 and it also > uses the Alligator style. Mea culpa. > > > > John Hagen > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18766	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: PL Crusader

Attachments : 6845294526_80b43346d3_o.jpg 06_Tricia_A.jpg 03_Madison_A.jpg 02_Killer_Lios_B.jpg 01_Sean_A.jpg Hi Guys! Hope everyone is doing well! It has been a beyond hectic year for me, coaching soccer, and two deck hockey teams. Tony L. finished my Crusader / Mantua passenger car consist. See attached photos below!  I think he did a fantastic job and he even made a box for it! We put the names of my family on the cars. Madison & Miranda (my daughters - 2 Coaches), Tricia (my wife - Obs), Seka (Grandma's nick name - Diner), Sean (me - Obs). I even added a fanticy baggage with the names of the two dogs on it. Any comments / complaints welcome!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PL Crusader [3 Attachments]   Hey Guys! I had a surprise in my inbox this morning! Tony sent me a photo of the engine. Please allow me to introduce my freshly restored Penn Line Reading 4-6-2 Crusader #117: Passenger cars are soon (or later) to come! Later!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18767	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader [5 Attachments]

Sean, Hearty Congratulations! Tony did a beautiful job for you. Any chance you can film them running? Walter On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hi Guys! Hope everyone is doing well! It has been a beyond hectic year for me, coaching soccer, and two deck hockey teams. Tony L. finished my Crusader / Mantua passenger car consist. See attached photos below!  I think he did a fantastic job and he even made a box for it! We put the names of my family on the cars. Madison & Miranda (my daughters - 2 Coaches), Tricia (my wife - Obs), Seka (Grandma's nick name - Diner), Sean (me - Obs). I even added a fanticy baggage with the names of the two dogs on it. Any comments / complaints welcome!   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18768	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/25/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader [5 Attachments]

Sean, Absolutely gorgeous set! Breathtaking! I've seen your photos on Flickr (I think it is, one of those photo sites anyways), and am in awe of your collection. So many classics, I hope someday to amass something like that. On the other hand, for me, it is a space and logistics issue. I have a one bedroom apartment, fairly good size, with about 120 square feet of HO scale tabletop in the living room. Problem is, the landlord has told me that I have too much stuff. Waukegan code compliance officials have to inspect at least 1/3 of this building each year for the landlord's license to be renewed. This year they had my apartment as one of the ones inspected. While I found the official code compliance checklist on Waukegan's website, and nothing should have cause it to fail inspection, it did anyway. My last place had a different inspector, and that guy was an HO scale railroader himself. The living room window in my place there was considered a fire escape, but had a 2 foot deep tabletop running along it for my railroad. Technically should cause a fail, but as the inspector was a hobbyist, passing a few freight cars his way gained me a 'pass'. Illinois. What can I say? Only around here could someone be bribed with Proto2000 kits! This leads up to my weekend being good too: My special lady and I went to an estate sale: Netted me over 300 freight cars from the 1950s through 1970s, about 30 locomotives, and a bunch of coaches, for $100. We filled her car to capacity! Now to figure room for all this! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 3/25/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] PL Crusader [5 Attachments] To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>, "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 10:24 PM   Hi Guys! Hope everyone is doing well! It has been a beyond hectic year for me, coaching soccer, and two deck hockey teams. Tony L. finished my Crusader / Mantua passenger car consist. See attached photos below!  I think he did a fantastic job and he even made a box for it! We put the names of my family on the cars. Madison & Miranda (my daughters - 2 Coaches), Tricia (my wife - Obs), Seka (Grandma's nick name - Diner), Sean (me - Obs). I even added a fanticy baggage with the names of the two dogs on it. Any comments / complaints welcome!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PL Crusader [3 Attachments]   Hey Guys! I had a surprise in my inbox this morning! Tony sent me a photo of the engine. Please allow me to introduce my freshly restored Penn Line Reading 4-6-2 Crusader #117: Passenger cars are soon (or later) to come! Later!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18769	From: Jay	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

Sean, A great restoration and especially like how you had the vintage cars done at the same time for a perfect match! I do not know anyone who would not be thrilled to own this matched consist! Also a nice classy touch with adding your family's names to the cars - a good move as they will never let you sell it! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > Hope everyone is doing well! It has been a beyond hectic year for me, coaching soccer, and two deck hockey teams. > > Tony L. finished my Crusader / Mantua passenger car consist. See attached photos below!  I think he did a fantastic job and he even made a box for it! > > We put the names of my family on the cars. > > Madison & Miranda (my daughters - 2 Coaches), Tricia (my wife - Obs), Seka (Grandma's nick name - Diner), Sean (me - Obs). I even added a fanticy baggage with the names of the two dogs on it. > > > Any comments / complaints welcome! > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 9:32 AM > Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PL Crusader [3 Attachments] > > >   > [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] > Hey Guys! > > I had a surprise in my inbox this morning! > > Tony sent me a photo of the engine. Please allow me to introduce my freshly restored Penn Line Reading 4-6-2 Crusader #117: > > > > Passenger cars are soon (or later) to come! > > Later! > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18770	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader [5 Attachments]

Sean,    Absolutely Beautiful. It was well worth waiting for. The cars really add to it. Putting family names on the cars a nice touch. You can really be proud of it.    Still dealing with health problem. 11 months now. Had two very special test in the last 2 weeks and now I have to see a specilized surgeon.                                                                  Jim H On 3/25/2012 11:24 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys! Hope everyone is doing well! It has been a beyond hectic year for me, coaching soccer, and two deck hockey teams. Tony L. finished my Crusader / Mantua passenger car consist. See attached photos below!  I think he did a fantastic job and he even made a box for it! We put the names of my family on the cars. Madison & Miranda (my daughters - 2 Coaches), Tricia (my wife - Obs), Seka (Grandma's nick name - Diner), Sean (me - Obs). I even added a fanticy baggage with the names of the two dogs on it. Any comments / complaints welcome!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] PL Crusader [3 Attachments]   Hey Guys! I had a surprise in my inbox this morning! Tony sent me a photo of the engine. Please allow me to introduce my freshly restored Penn Line Reading 4-6-2 Crusader #117: Passenger cars are soon (or later) to come! Later!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18771	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: Lincoln Fineral Car

List,    Hi, I have for sale an HO Scale Lincoln Funeral Car. I think these were produced in the late 60's by both AHM/Rivarossi and Pocher. This one is the Pocher version. Has the double truck assemblies on both ends with horn hook couplers. It is in very nice condition. Smoke Stacks are present as is both President Emblems. Dark Brown car with a lighter shade of medium Brown roof.  No box. I can email a pic if interested. First come, first served. $65.00 plus shipping. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18772	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Chuck Higdon: Here is a list of some of the Ulrich covered hoppers on my railroad  that I don't see on the spread sheet. Southern Pacific 15070 Erie 84286 Seaboard 13567 Southern Pacific T & NO 80320 Soo Line 1085 That's it for now. Have a good, day. Phil Entingh From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Phil, I have updated the MDC list.  Let me know once you get back of the others. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:11 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Thanks for the reply.. I have 3 Ulrich cars that I can't find on the list. I also have at least 2 Thomas industries tank cars. However I will have to get back north, May 1, to go through other stuff. Most of my collection is there. Thanks again, Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18773	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Thanks Phil, I have uploaded this info to the file.  I did not know Ulrich made covered hoppers and do not see any mention of them in the posted literature on HOseeker site.  But you have them in your hand and would know.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Here is a list of some of the Ulrich covered hoppers on my railroad  that I don't see on the spread sheet. Southern Pacific 15070 Erie 84286 Seaboard 13567 Southern Pacific T & NO 80320 Soo Line 1085   That's it for now. Have a good, day. Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Phil, I have updated the MDC list.  Let me know once you get back of the others. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:11 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Thanks for the reply.. I have 3 Ulrich cars that I can't find on the list. I also have at least 2 Thomas industries tank cars. However I will have to get back north, May 1, to go through other stuff. Most of my collection is there. Thanks again, Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18774	From: takefive247	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Need assembly instruction

Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. Bill G.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18775	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Chuck: I am getting old. These are their 40 ft outside braced box cars.  Sorry,  Phil From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Thanks Phil, I have uploaded this info to the file.  I did not know Ulrich made covered hoppers and do not see any mention of them in the posted literature on HOseeker site.  But you have them in your hand and would know.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Here is a list of some of the Ulrich covered hoppers on my railroad  that I don't see on the spread sheet. Southern Pacific 15070 Erie 84286 Seaboard 13567 Southern Pacific T & NO 80320 Soo Line 1085   That's it for now. Have a good, day. Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Phil, I have updated the MDC list.  Let me know once you get back of the others. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:11 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Thanks for the reply.. I have 3 Ulrich cars that I can't find on the list. I also have at least 2 Thomas industries tank cars. However I will have to get back north, May 1, to go through other stuff. Most of my collection is there. Thanks again, Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18776	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

Bill, Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and parts diagrams there. Jake Bechtel On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > Bill G. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18777	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Thanks Phil, file has been updated to reflect this.  Thanks for the follow up.  Better to get old than not.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: I am getting old. These are their 40 ft outside braced box cars.  Sorry,  Phil   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Thanks Phil, I have uploaded this info to the file.  I did not know Ulrich made covered hoppers and do not see any mention of them in the posted literature on HOseeker site.  But you have them in your hand and would know.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Here is a list of some of the Ulrich covered hoppers on my railroad  that I don't see on the spread sheet. Southern Pacific 15070 Erie 84286 Seaboard 13567 Southern Pacific T & NO 80320 Soo Line 1085   That's it for now. Have a good, day. Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Phil, I have updated the MDC list.  Let me know once you get back of the others. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:11 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck Higdon: Thanks for the reply.. I have 3 Ulrich cars that I can't find on the list. I also have at least 2 Thomas industries tank cars. However I will have to get back north, May 1, to go through other stuff. Most of my collection is there. Thanks again, Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18778	From: takefive247	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Bill, > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > parts diagrams there. > Jake Bechtel > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18779	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

Hi, Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: From: takefive247 <townline58@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM   Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Bill, > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > parts diagrams there. > Jake Bechtel > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18780	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

Hi again, Looking more at those instructions from hoseeker.net I think it should work for you. Curiosity got the better of me, and I delved further into the scans. Does appear to be a Reading locomotive by the cab window design. Now, as the instructions are dated a few years later, maybe someone with more knowledge of these locos, like Jim Heckard or Sean Naylor, could expand a little on any differences in production. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:31 AM   Hi, Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: From: takefive247 <townline58@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM   Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Bill, > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > parts diagrams there. > Jake Bechtel > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18781	From: Richard White	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Walthers passenger car step

Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18782	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

What kit is #7883?   In a message dated 3/28/2012 2:38:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18783	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

Is that the corner step with the small hole in the casing behind the stairwell? If so, join the club! I need several dozens myself. I've found that the apparent reason so may Varney, JC, who-have-you heavyweight style coaches are missing steps, is because they merely glue on under the floor. One derailment and you're missing a few. Easy to knock off over the years. The Walthers steps have that hole, so I can screw a #2 wood screw through the hole and into the car deck. That step isn't going ANYWHERE then! I do have one step never used. Fixing someday to make a mold out of it, and re-cast them in plastic. Someday. As such, I don't want to part with that step. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers passenger car step To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 1:38 PM   Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18784	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

Do not go into the “Instructions page.   On the first Mantua page, at the far left lower corner of the all the old stuff is an Instruction booklet that covers both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Go through that page by page, there are something like 15 – 16 pages on assembling those locomotives.   John Hagen.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction     Hi again, Looking more at those instructions from hoseeker.net I think it should work for you. Curiosity got the better of me, and I delved further into the scans. Does appear to be a Reading locomotive by the cab window design. Now, as the instructions are dated a few years later, maybe someone with more knowledge of these locos, like Jim Heckard or Sean Naylor, could expand a little on any differences in production. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:31 AM   Hi, Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: From: takefive247 <townline58@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM   Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Bill, > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > parts diagrams there. > Jake Bechtel > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18785	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

Whatever passenger car it might be, Kit Bits has a whole line of passenger car details and parts. Their steps are cast white metal and are more or less generic. Go on line and there are pics of the parts. 4 of these steps go for $2.95. I have used them as replacements myself. Art W   In a message dated 3/28/2012 3:13:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, computersystemrebuild@... writes: Is that the corner step with the small hole in the casing behind the stairwell? If so, join the club! I need several dozens myself. I've found that the apparent reason so may Varney, JC, who-have-you heavyweight style coaches are missing steps, is because they merely glue on under the floor. One derailment and you're missing a few. Easy to knock off over the years. The Walthers steps have that hole, so I can screw a #2 wood screw through the hole and into the car deck. That step isn't going ANYWHERE then! I do have one step never used. Fixing someday to make a mold out of it, and re-cast them in plastic. Someday. As such, I don't want to part with that step. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers passenger car step To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 1:38 PM   Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18786	From: Mike	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

I have the same problem. I did get the stuff to cast my own in resin, as well as tools and supplies to also cast in metal. Except for the type of RTV I would need to cast in metal. I really should get the gear out and cast my replacements. Heck there are lots of other parts I should mold and cast replacements as well. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. > Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? > I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. > It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18787	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

Art, Just checked those out. Those appear to be the same design that Varney, and just about everyone else, used except for Walthers. Since they supply a line drawing, and you have used the physical product, is there a small mounting hole behind the steps? Or do these need to be glued on. The Walthers steps I mentioned, have a flat part behind the top of the steps, and there's a small hole in this flat part, suitable for affixing the steps using a wood screw, which is FAR more secure than using just glue. Of course, I tend to build these kind of things to be more bombproof than what is really needed. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers passenger car step To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 2:21 PM   Whatever passenger car it might be, Kit Bits has a whole line of passenger car details and parts. Their steps are cast white metal and are more or less generic. Go on line and there are pics of the parts. 4 of these steps go for $2.95. I have used them as replacements myself. Art W   In a message dated 3/28/2012 3:13:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, computersystemrebuild@... writes: Is that the corner step with the small hole in the casing behind the stairwell? If so, join the club! I need several dozens myself. I've found that the apparent reason so may Varney, JC, who-have-you heavyweight style coaches are missing steps, is because they merely glue on under the floor. One derailment and you're missing a few. Easy to knock off over the years. The Walthers steps have that hole, so I can screw a #2 wood screw through the hole and into the car deck. That step isn't going ANYWHERE then! I do have one step never used. Fixing someday to make a mold out of it, and re-cast them in plastic. Someday. As such, I don't want to part with that step. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers passenger car step To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 1:38 PM   Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18788	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

It is an 80’ paired window coach, Arch roof, 80 seat.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of luvprr@... Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 3:09 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers passenger car step     What kit is #7883?   In a message dated 3/28/2012 2:38:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18789	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

I suspect if you cast them in resin and post a notice to this list as well as the passenger car list, you might be able to sell a few of these.  I have one set I have been hoarding and could use about 4 to 6 more sets.  Just a thought.  As I recall, the article on building the Kettle Valley passenger train used these steps. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mwbauers55@... Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:02:11 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers passenger car step   I have the same problem. I did get the stuff to cast my own in resin, as well as tools and supplies to also cast in metal. Except for the type of RTV I would need to cast in metal. I really should get the gear out and cast my replacements. Heck there are lots of other parts I should mold and cast replacements as well. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. > Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? > I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. > It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18790	From: takefive247	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

Sorry guys I can't find it. I think I clicked on every link on that first page. I don't see anything that says old stuff. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Do not go into the “Instructions page. > > > > On the first Mantua page, at the far left lower corner of the all the old stuff is an Instruction booklet that covers both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Go through that page by page, there are something like 15 â€" 16 pages on assembling those locomotives. > > > > John Hagen. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:35 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > > > > > > > Hi again, > > Looking more at those instructions from hoseeker.net I think it should work for you. Curiosity got the better of me, and I delved further into the scans. Does appear to be a Reading locomotive by the cab window design. > > Now, as the instructions are dated a few years later, maybe someone with more knowledge of these locos, like Jim Heckard or Sean Naylor, could expand a little on any differences in production. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:31 AM > > > > > Hi, > > Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. > > Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM > > > > Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > > parts diagrams there. > > Jake Bechtel > > > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@> wrote: > > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18791	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

http://www.hoseeker.net/mantuamiscellaneous.html   Fifth row from the top, far left column.  "Atlantic Pacific Instruction and Operating Manual" Dropdown says 1952 instructions John B. Allyn From: "takefive247" <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 3:47:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction   Sorry guys I can't find it. I think I clicked on every link on that first page. I don't see anything that says old stuff. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Do not go into the “Instructions page. > > > > On the first Mantua page, at the far left lower corner of the all the old stuff is an Instruction booklet that covers both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Go through that page by page, there are something like 15 â€" 16 pages on assembling those locomotives. > > > > John Hagen. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:35 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > > > > > > > Hi again, > > Looking more at those instructions from hoseeker.net I think it should work for you. Curiosity got the better of me, and I delved further into the scans. Does appear to be a Reading locomotive by the cab window design. > > Now, as the instructions are dated a few years later, maybe someone with more knowledge of these locos, like Jim Heckard or Sean Naylor, could expand a little on any differences in production. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:31 AM > > > > > Hi, > > Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. > > Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM > > > > Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > > parts diagrams there. > > Jake Bechtel > > > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@> wrote: > > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18792	From: takefive247	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

If you are talking about the Atlantic / Pacific manual on the steam engine page I found that but does not help. I took the engine apart to realign and tighten the motor mount. Those instructions don't seem to show a piece of brass under the motor mounting plate. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Sorry guys I can't find it. I think I clicked on every link on that first page. I don't see anything that says old stuff. > > Bill G. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > Do not go into the “Instructions page. > > > > > > > > On the first Mantua page, at the far left lower corner of the all the old stuff is an Instruction booklet that covers both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Go through that page by page, there are something like 15 â€" 16 pages on assembling those locomotives. > > > > > > > > John Hagen. > > > > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:35 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > Looking more at those instructions from hoseeker.net I think it should work for you. Curiosity got the better of me, and I delved further into the scans. Does appear to be a Reading locomotive by the cab window design. > > > > Now, as the instructions are dated a few years later, maybe someone with more knowledge of these locos, like Jim Heckard or Sean Naylor, could expand a little on any differences in production. > > > > Thanks > > Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@> > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:31 AM > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. > > > > Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) > > > > Thanks > > Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@> wrote: > > > > > > From: takefive247 <townline58@> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM > > > > > > > > Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. > > Bill > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > > > parts diagrams there. > > > Jake Bechtel > > > > > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18793	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

I'll go to it. I have several Walthers carcasses that were thrown out at a local model RR club. and they need assorted parts to return to proper life. I also have a number of not yet built kits to use as the masters for the missing parts. I'm tied up for the next 2-3 weeks. But my schedule is flexible after that. Mike Bauers. On Mar 28, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Richard White wrote: > Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. > Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? > I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. > It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! > Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18794	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

On 3/28/2012 1:38 PM, Richard White wrote: > Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. > Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? > I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. > It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! > Regards- Richard White > > > Well, I was at work so missed most of this thread, but let me look downstairs tonight, I probably have a couple. Email me off list. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18795	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

Thanks guys! It is most certainly one of my most prized pieces and the family names being displayed on each car makes it even more special to me. The darned thing is so nice now, I do not even know what to do with it. Currently, with our house in the middle of an on-going addition/construction, there is no where safe to display it, no do i have time to make something safe to display it in.  I guess I did not really thin far enough ahead of the timing of the restoration. Now I am afraid to even take it out of the padded box it was shipped in.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18796	From: P Entingh	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car step

Mike: You can probably get the RTV you need from McMaster Carr. They have a very complete on line catalog. Philip Entingh From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers passenger car step   I have the same problem. I did get the stuff to cast my own in resin, as well as tools and supplies to also cast in metal. Except for the type of RTV I would need to cast in metal. I really should get the gear out and cast my replacements. Heck there are lots of other parts I should mold and cast replacements as well. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi- I have just begun construction of a vintage Walthers kit (#7883) and I find that the sealed plastic bag of parts is missing one step. > Can anyone furnish me a step- the lead casting step? > I can swap for other Walthers detail parts, for instance Garland roof vents, end gates, etc. > It's about 40 years too late to contact Walters about this! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18797	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Need assembly instruction

ho seeker go to mantua scroll down on page until you see 1952 instructions(on left) pict.on instruction book blue cover will say atlantic/pacific in large letters.  Alan From: takefive247 <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction   Sorry guys I can't find it. I think I clicked on every link on that first page. I don't see anything that says old stuff. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Do not go into the “Instructions page. > > > > On the first Mantua page, at the far left lower corner of the all the old stuff is an Instruction booklet that covers both the Atlantic and the Pacific. Go through that page by page, there are something like 15 â€" 16 pages on assembling those locomotives. > > > > John Hagen. > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:35 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > > > > > > > Hi again, > > Looking more at those instructions from hoseeker.net I think it should work for you. Curiosity got the better of me, and I delved further into the scans. Does appear to be a Reading locomotive by the cab window design. > > Now, as the instructions are dated a few years later, maybe someone with more knowledge of these locos, like Jim Heckard or Sean Naylor, could expand a little on any differences in production. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > > From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 11:31 AM > > > > > Hi, > > Look at the very bottom of the page for Mantua steam diagrams. hoseeker.net sometimes has some funny page formatting issues, and there is a scan of the construction booklet that came with the Pacific/Atlantic. While I did not look into the book too far, if it compares the Atlantic and Pacific instructions, I imagine it should work for you. The link looks out of place there, as if it came later or was an afterthought. > > Failing that, maybe the fellows over at Yardbird Trains may be of some help. They seem to know a lot about the old models, and may have a physical copy of the instructions they could scan for you (And if they do, ask if they can send a copy of the scans to hoseeker!) > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 3/28/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need assembly instruction > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 10:08 AM > > > > Thanks Jake, I looked there. I see the parts list but not an assembly sheet. > Bill > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > Try HOseeker dot com. I think that they have the instructions and > > parts diagrams there. > > Jake Bechtel > > > > On 3/27/12, takefive247 <townline58@> wrote: > > > Does anyone have or know where I can find assembly instructions for the > > > early Mantua Reading pacific engine. 1948 or there about. > > > > > > Bill G. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18798	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

Sean, I don't recall exactly where I saw it, but someone makes a case that has a track board that slide into the case from the end. It is pitched as something to both display your model and transport it safely. You might check the Walthers catalog to see if they distribute it. Jake Bechtel On 3/28/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Thanks guys! > > It is most certainly one of my most prized pieces and the family names being > displayed on each car makes it even more special to me. The darned thing is > so nice now, I do not even know what to do with it. Currently, with our > house in the middle of an on-going addition/construction, there is no where > safe to display it, no do i have time to make something safe to display it > in.  I guess I did not really thin far enough ahead of the timing of the > restoration. Now I am afraid to even take it out of the padded box it was > shipped in. > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > >> >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18799	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

Thanks for the input jack! I''ll keep that in mind!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader   Sean, I don't recall exactly where I saw it, but someone makes a case that has a track board that slide into the case from the end. It is pitched as something to both display your model and transport it safely. You might check the Walthers catalog to see if they distribute it. Jake Bechtel On 3/28/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Thanks guys! > > It is most certainly one of my most prized pieces and the family names being > displayed on each car makes it even more special to me. The darned thing is > so nice now, I do not even know what to do with it. Currently, with our > house in the middle of an on-going addition/construction, there is no where > safe to display it, no do i have time to make something safe to display it > in.  I guess I did not really thin far enough ahead of the timing of the > restoration. Now I am afraid to even take it out of the padded box it was > shipped in. > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > >> >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18800	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

You know Sean, anyone of many of us would put it on display while you home is being worked on.  I just measured my mantle and it is 6 feet long.  I have some flex track I could put there to keep the train on the tracks.  What do you think? J   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:01 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader     Thanks for the input jack! I''ll keep that in mind!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jacob Bechtel < jhbivusa@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader     Sean, I don't recall exactly where I saw it, but someone makes a case that has a track board that slide into the case from the end. It is pitched as something to both display your model and transport it safely. You might check the Walthers catalog to see if they distribute it. Jake Bechtel On 3/28/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Thanks guys! > > It is most certainly one of my most prized pieces and the family names being > displayed on each car makes it even more special to me. The darned thing is > so nice now, I do not even know what to do with it. Currently, with our > house in the middle of an on-going addition/construction, there is no where > safe to display it, no do i have time to make something safe to display it > in.  I guess I did not really thin far enough ahead of the timing of the > restoration. Now I am afraid to even take it out of the padded box it was > shipped in. > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > >> >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18801	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

Sean, Is there any way that you could arrange a "tour of Northeast Alabama", specifically the GAdsden, AL region during our annual show on April 21st. I have to be honest though, if it was mine there is no way I would send it off across the country to someone that I don't know. But it really would look swell on the CoosaValleyModelRailroad dot com, in the Hardin Cultural Arts Center. Maybe it could be arranged for some future date? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18802	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

LOL! With the engine Chuck, this consist is just about 7 feet long. You would have to devise some sort of cantilever bridge to hold the entire display. I must say., you are lucky as my wife already put her foot down and took the possibility of displaying this on the mantle. I must admit though, if I were allowed to display anything on the mantle, it would be my scratch-built O scale brass WM Class M2 4-6-6-4 Challenger. She even said no to that!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:41 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader   You know Sean, anyone of many of us would put it on display while you home is being worked on.  I just measured my mantle and it is 6 feet long.  I have some flex track I could put there to keep the train on the tracks.  What do you think? J   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:01 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader     Thanks for the input jack! I''ll keep that in mind!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jacob Bechtel < jhbivusa@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader     Sean, I don't recall exactly where I saw it, but someone makes a case that has a track board that slide into the case from the end. It is pitched as something to both display your model and transport it safely. You might check the Walthers catalog to see if they distribute it. Jake Bechtel On 3/28/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Thanks guys! > > It is most certainly one of my most prized pieces and the family names being > displayed on each car makes it even more special to me. The darned thing is > so nice now, I do not even know what to do with it. Currently, with our > house in the middle of an on-going addition/construction, there is no where > safe to display it, no do i have time to make something safe to display it > in.  I guess I did not really thin far enough ahead of the timing of the > restoration. Now I am afraid to even take it out of the padded box it was > shipped in. > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > >> >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18803	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Walthers HH660

Attachments : IMG_7816.JPG IMG_7815.JPG IMG_7814.JPG IMG_7813.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Walthers HH660 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:54:11 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Sending some pictures of my Walthers HH660 Diesel. I have cleaned up the body on one side (left), back and front and starting on the right side where you can see the pitting that I have to file away especially the walk way and just above. It's tough stuff to file. I have the top just laying on the body. I also had to put some epoxy on the back of the roof to lengthen it. I thought having holes already drilled on the side of both walk ways would make things easier but now I wished the were not drilled. Since they were not in straight line and I had to take the high lip down on the edge of the walk ways some of the holes are coming slightly through on the top of the walk ways. Gives me a little more work to do when I add stanchions to the handrails. Just more work but part of rebuilding some ones handiwork that was a basket case to start. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18804	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660 [4 Attachments]

Looking really good. John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:56:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH660 [4 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Walthers HH660 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:54:11 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Sending some pictures of my Walthers HH660 Diesel. I have cleaned up the body on one side (left), back and front and starting on the right side where you can see the pitting that I have to file away especially the walk way and just above. It's tough stuff to file. I have the top just laying on the body. I also had to put some epoxy on the back of the roof to lengthen it. I thought having holes already drilled on the side of both walk ways would make things easier but now I wished the were not drilled. Since they were not in straight line and I had to take the high lip down on the edge of the walk ways some of the holes are coming slightly through on the top of the walk ways. Gives me a little more work to do when I add stanchions to the handrails. Just more work but part of rebuilding some ones handiwork that was a basket case to start. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18805	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: No wrong way to build a GG1

All, especially Don Dellman! In my travels on the Internet (looking for info on an ALCO HH660 supposedly operating in Northwest Indiana - found it!), I happened across this website: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/ Hmmm, seems that there's a lot of potential for GG1 kitbashing! I know Don's done one himself. In fact, there's one on this page: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/gg3ax.html That seems to look awfully familiar! Must be deja vu. Seems to be some idea for the Tyco bodies maybe? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18806	From: Jay	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

Hi Jim, Looks like you made a lot of progress on it, too bad those handrail holes were originally not drilled, as you say, in a straight line, but neither were mine. I guess that back in the late 1930's few had access to a drill press or even power tools to ensure accuracy. Despite the extra work required, it will be a worthy addition to your fine collection. W. Jay W. confident it will look good when you are finished. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Walthers HH660 > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:54:11 -0400 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: > > > > > Sending some pictures of my Walthers HH660 Diesel. I have > cleaned up the body on one side (left), back and front and starting on > the right side where you can see the pitting that I have to file away > especially the walk way and just above. It's tough stuff to file. I have > the top just laying on the body. I also had to put some epoxy on the > back of the roof to lengthen it. I thought having holes already drilled > on the side of both walk ways would make things easier but now I wished > the were not drilled. Since they were not in straight line and I had to > take the high lip down on the edge of the walk ways some of the holes > are coming slightly through on the top of the walk ways. > Gives me a little more work to do when I add stanchions to the > handrails. Just more work but part of rebuilding some ones handiwork > that was a basket case to start. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18807	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

On 3/29/2012 8:11 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: All, especially Don Dellman! In my travels on the Internet (looking for info on an ALCO HH660 supposedly operating in Northwest Indiana - found it!), I happened across this website: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/ Hmmm, seems that there's a lot of potential for GG1 kitbashing! I know Don's done one himself. In fact, there's one on this page: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/gg3ax.html That seems to look awfully familiar! Must be deja vu. Seems to be some idea for the Tyco bodies maybe? -Steve Neubaum Love it! I sent him a photo of mine, see what he says. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18808	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

On 3/29/2012 9:42 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: On 3/29/2012 8:11 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: All, especially Don Dellman! In my travels on the Internet (looking for info on an ALCO HH660 supposedly operating in Northwest Indiana - found it!), I happened across this website: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/ Hmmm, seems that there's a lot of potential for GG1 kitbashing! I know Don's done one himself. In fact, there's one on this page: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/gg3ax.html That seems to look awfully familiar! Must be deja vu. Seems to be some idea for the Tyco bodies maybe? -Steve Neubaum Love it! I sent him a photo of mine, see what he says. Don Well, I TRIED to send a picture, his email bounced. :-( Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18809	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

Glad you like it, Don. Thought of your custom build as soon as I saw it. Was funny how I found the page: We've been discussing Jim's bronze ALCO HH660. About a month or two ago, I was eating at a restaurant a block from my shop. As I was finishing up, a couple guys walked past me on their way in. One noticed my BNSF jacket. It is a real railroad jacket, not a clone made for the railfans, but actually came from the BNSF. Friend of mine that I've known since I was in diapers got it made up for me with my name embroidered on it for a Christmas present. He was in management for the Illinois Division, started working for the CB&Q right before the merger. Anyway, I got to talking to the fellows, and found out they were working a job for ComEd, the power company, rehabbing an old switcher. Also found out they do maintainence on an ALCO HH660 in Indiana. So tonight, I was remembering my conversation with them, and did an image search on the old ALCO. Found a web forum with a gif image of the chopped GG1 in someone's signature. Clicked it, and thought it pretty neat! Also, found out today I do NOT need surgery. Do need physical therapy and to take it easy for a while to let the knee get better. Or as well as it can considering arthritis does not go away. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 29, 2012, 9:49 PM   On 3/29/2012 9:42 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: On 3/29/2012 8:11 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: All, especially Don Dellman! In my travels on the Internet (looking for info on an ALCO HH660 supposedly operating in Northwest Indiana - found it!), I happened across this website: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/ Hmmm, seems that there's a lot of potential for GG1 kitbashing! I know Don's done one himself. In fact, there's one on this page: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/gg3ax.html That seems to look awfully familiar! Must be deja vu. Seems to be some idea for the Tyco bodies maybe? -Steve Neubaum Love it! I sent him a photo of mine, see what he says. Don Well, I TRIED to send a picture, his email bounced. :-( Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18810	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

Wow !!! I give a very high vote to this page from the site.......... http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/diesel.html I really like the R3 class on that page......... and the whole site is loaded with great ideas. DON.......... Wanta cast some of those R3's ?!?!?!?! GUYS........ How about we group together to hunt up some plastic shells and chassis castings from the assorted swap meets we get to ??? I need one body and one power truck casting to most easily do this........... otherwise, I have a complex larger scale card model of the GG-1 to work from as computer files to rescale. Thus I have templates for the GG1 from that. I've scheduled to order a small, low cost laser burner in 30 days, and can foresee more easily making the components for patterns through it. Mike Bauers On Mar 29, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > All, especially Don Dellman! > > In my travels on the Internet (looking for info on an ALCO HH660 supposedly operating in Northwest Indiana - found it!), I happened across this website: > > http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/ > > Hmmm, seems that there's a lot of potential for GG1 kitbashing! I know Don's done one himself. In fact, there's one on this page: > > http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/gg3ax.html > > That seems to look awfully familiar! Must be deja vu. > > Seems to be some idea for the Tyco bodies maybe? > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18811	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

Mike,   Somehow, the R3 class makes want to put a GGI drive under a Shark shell.   And the Ingalls Shipbuilding type M is outta sight. It’s even neater than the prototype.   John   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 6:26 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] No wrong way to build a GG1     Wow !!! I give a very high vote to this page from the site.......... http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/diesel.html I really like the R3 class on that page......... and the whole site is loaded with great ideas. DON.......... Wanta cast some of those R3's ?!?!?!?! GUYS........ How about we group together to hunt up some plastic shells and chassis castings from the assorted swap meets we get to ??? I need one body and one power truck casting to most easily do this........... otherwise, I have a complex larger scale card model of the GG-1 to work from as computer files to rescale. Thus I have templates for the GG1 from that. I've scheduled to order a small, low cost laser burner in 30 days, and can foresee more easily making the components for patterns through it. Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18812	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

Attachments : RF16Ax.jpg I didn’t realize until I did the attached image but I was basically thinking of a shark nose centipede.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hagen Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 6:51 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] No wrong way to build a GG1     Mike,   Somehow, the R3 class makes want to put a GGI drive under a Shark shell.   And the Ingalls Shipbuilding type M is outta sight. It’s even neater than the prototype.   John

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18813	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

On 3/30/2012 6:26 AM, Mike Bauers wrote: > Wow !!! > > I give a very high vote to this page from the site.......... > > http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/diesel.html > > I really like the R3 class on that page......... and the whole site is loaded with great ideas. > > DON.......... > > Wanta cast some of those R3's ?!?!?!?! > > GUYS........ How about we group together to hunt up some plastic shells and chassis castings from the assorted swap meets we get to ??? > > I need one body and one power truck casting to most easily do this........... otherwise, I have a complex larger scale card model of the GG-1 to work from as computer files to rescale. Thus I have templates for the GG1 from that. > > I've scheduled to order a small, low cost laser burner in 30 days, and can foresee more easily making the components for patterns through it. > > Mike Bauers > > On Mar 29, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > I've got a short leftover end from mine if you want it. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18814	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660

Wow Jim, It looks great - best looking HH660 I've ever seen. These were pretty rough castings as delivered by Walthers. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18815	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

Take a look through all the variants on this guys page - quite an obsession, but some interesting concepts. http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/index2.html I might have to build a couple of these, just for fun. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18816	From: Larry	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: No wrong way to build a GG1

I used to do the same thing with photocopied drawings; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1000835207/pic/1518334853/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1000835207/pic/475481215/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc (or check out the photos in Larry Miller’s Vintage HO photo folder) Larry Miller From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 8:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] No wrong way to build a GG1 All, especially Don Dellman! In my travels on the Internet (looking for info on an ALCO HH660 supposedly operating in Northwest Indiana - found it!), I happened across this website: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/ Hmmm, seems that there's a lot of potential for GG1 kitbashing! I know Don's done one himself. In fact, there's one on this page: http://users.wowway.com/~cbq9911/gg3ax.html That seems to look awfully familiar! Must be deja vu. Seems to be some idea for the Tyco bodies maybe? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18817	From: John Hagen	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Interesting piece on eBay

Group,   This is off-topic but still an very neat HO steam loco. It’s a German model of a German prototype from WWII era. But the detail borders on fantastic! I know that Overland and Precision Scale among others have done some truly nice work but this is the best I’ve seen in HO. The level of detail approaches Koh’s and Company’s O scale stuff.   It has 5 – 6 good quality photos, including an underside view, and uses eBay magnifying system so you can get a decent look at it.   Take a few minutes and check it out, especially the area of the drivers and frame.   Item #200734416418   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18818	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Copper HO

Gents and Ladies, I just received an HO daylight coach kit that has ends and sides made of copper. It's from an obviously vintage outfit called Super Scale . Maybe you folks have seen items like this made of copper, but in all the years I've been doing HO kits I've never come across actual solid copper pieces. Bronze, brass, and white metal have been my experience. The instructions identify the metal as copper also, so I know I haven't misidentified it. Darn thing must be worth its weight in. . . copper. Sides are badly tarnished on the interior while the copper ends are coated with solder on their reverse sides to make them easier to solder--according to the instructions. I think I might just burnish up the exteriors as they have that special appearance of really old, uncirculated pennies and not paint the car at all. Sort of like old brass. Amazing. Anyone else have kits from that manufacturer? Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18819	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Attachments : vintage h-o 002.jpg vintage h-o 001.jpg -- I have a H-O Super Scale model EMC Diesel 1000 H.P. Booster Switcher Loco, the frame is brass sheet with brass and white metal add-ons. The body is possibly die-cast zinc rather neatly fastened together. My guess it would take Lindsay power, there are no trucks with it. Roger Aultman -- luvprr@... wrote: ============= Gents and Ladies, I just received an HO daylight coach kit that has ends and sides made of copper. It's from an obviously vintage outfit called Super Scale . Maybe you folks have seen items like this made of copper, but in all the years I've been doing HO kits I've never come across actual solid copper pieces. Bronze, brass, and white metal have been my experience. The instructions identify the metal as copper also, so I know I haven't misidentified it. Darn thing must be worth its weight in. . . copper. Sides are badly tarnished on the interior while the copper ends are coated with solder on their reverse sides to make them easier to solder--according to the instructions. I think I might just burnish up the exteriors as they have that special appearance of really old, uncirculated pennies and not paint the car at all. Sort of like old brass. Amazing. Anyone else have kits from that manufacturer? Art W

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18820	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Progress on HH660

Attachments : IMG_7820.JPG IMG_7819.JPG Got tired of filing. Must do a little more so I played with some handrail and steps. You can still see a couple of scratches but the camera in Macro picks them up better then my eyes. The dark line on the front is epoxy that I had to fill in when previous builder soldered they left a gap that I didn't want to play with so I just filled it in. Still have to drill 2 holes to put back handrail on. The roof just lying on top of body but does have to big screws to pull roof tight to body. Wish I had the before picture when I bought it off eBay to put aside of this after ( but not finished ) Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18821	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on HH660 [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim, Really lookin' good. Definately beats theheck out of the lead alloy that I had. If the castings that could have been made to look this good I would still have it! It really DOES make a difference what raw material you start with. Jake Bechtel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18822	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: copper HO engines and passenger cars

Attachments : IMG_7833.JPG IMG_7829.JPG IMG_7828.JPG IMG_7827.JPG IMG_7826.JPG Roger Aultman, Art W, All, Thought you might like these copper items made by two companies. First two pictures are an assembled 1000 HP Switcher by Super Scale . Powered by Lindsay. Second picture is a Mint 600 HP kit that you have to add drive to and Lindsay seems to be the favorite. Next four pictures are 4 different copper assembled passenger cars. The copper jacket is a flat piece you bend over a wooden frame you make. Builder forgot to add window material and since bodies are soldered and there is no way to put window in without taking the bodies apart. Last to pictures show a mint Exacta passenger kit unassembled. One picture shows the box end . This is a later time after Central Lines bought out the Exacta name. Next you will see a flat copper jacket that you have to bend to shape. All parts you need are under it with assemble instructions. Last on hoseeker under Literature go to Exacta and click to see paperwork. The go back to Gallery and find Exacta and click in to see pictures. Hope this helps. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18823	From: Richard White	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Hi Art- Super Scale manufactured freight car kits in S Gauge (box cars and reefers and maybe more). I wasn't aware that they did HO gauge as well. -Richard W.   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:08:07 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Copper HO   Gents and Ladies, I just received an HO daylight coach kit that has ends and sides made of copper. It's from an obviously vintage outfit called Super Scale . Maybe you folks have seen items like this made of copper, but in all the years I've been doing HO kits I've never come across actual solid copper pieces. Bronze, brass, and white metal have been my experience. The instructions identify the metal as copper also, so I know I haven't misidentified it. Darn thing must be worth its weight in. . . copper. Sides are badly tarnished on the interior while the copper ends are coated with solder on their reverse sides to make them easier to solder--according to the instructions. I think I might just burnish up the exteriors as they have that special appearance of really old, uncirculated pennies and not paint the car at all. Sort of like old brass. Amazing. Anyone else have kits from that manufacturer? Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18824	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

In the "Files" section of the group website you will find a spreadsheet purporting to list the items produced by Super Scale.  V List Super Scale cars.xls  The locos are not listed, but Super Scale passenger cars are. I believe they are all heavyweight cars. There is no V List for Exacta cars as yet. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18825	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: copper HO engines and passenger cars [8 Attachments]

-- Hello Jim A fine group of vintage models that would enhance any collection. Roger Aultman -- Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: ============= Roger Aultman, Art W, All, Thought you might like these copper items made by two companies. First two pictures are an assembled 1000 HP Switcher by Super Scale . Powered by Lindsay. Second picture is a Mint 600 HP kit that you have to add drive to and Lindsay seems to be the favorite. Next four pictures are 4 different copper assembled passenger cars. The copper jacket is a flat piece you bend over a wooden frame you make. Builder forgot to add window material and since bodies are soldered and there is no way to put window in without taking the bodies apart. Last to pictures show a mint Exacta passenger kit unassembled. One picture shows the box end . This is a later time after Central Lines bought out the Exacta name. Next you will see a flat copper jacket that you have to bend to shape. All parts you need are under it with assemble instructions. Last on hoseeker under Literature go to Exacta and click to see paperwork. The go back to Gallery and find Exacta and click in to see pictures. Hope this helps. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Super Scale Passenger car

Attachments : IMG_7840.JPG IMG_7839.JPG IMG_7838.JPG IMG_7836.JPG IMG_7835.JPG Here are a couple of pictures of a Super Scale Open Ended Baggage car . If you read the one little box saying that car is copper but the inside has been tinned with lead so easier to solder. It has O/B and assembly/plan sheet. It's the only Super Scale passenger car I have found that someone else had started. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18827	From: Lon	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?

Hi all, Did Varney make a Kopper's Chemical and Plastics KPCX 518 tank car? If they did should it have ladders and a platform around the dome? Did anyone other than Gilbert make one. I checked a couple of sites with no success. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18828	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?

Lon, To the best of my knowledge, the Varney version of the 518 Kopper's car did not come with the platform and the ladders.  Check this link out:  http://www.gilbertho.org/rolling_stock/518.htm Daryl On 3/31/2012 10:04 PM, Lon wrote:   Hi all, Did Varney make a Kopper's Chemical and Plastics KPCX 518 tank car? If they did should it have ladders and a platform around the dome? Did anyone other than Gilbert make one. I checked a couple of sites with no success. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?

On 3/31/2012 9:04 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi all, Did Varney make a Kopper's Chemical and Plastics KPCX 518 tank car? If they did should it have ladders and a platform around the dome? Did anyone other than Gilbert make one. I checked a couple of sites with no success. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > I believe we had a discussion a few months back and the conclusion was that ANY Varney car with a three digit number in the "500" was ONLY sold under the Gilbert name. I can't answer the question about the platform, my Varney Becco chemical car does NOT have one, and there's no markings or indications on the shell that one was ever there. (i.e. not scratches or marks that one may have broken off) Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18830	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale Passenger car [5 Attachments]

Hi Jim,   On site, thanks for these photos of the plans.  Nice models it appears.  I will be updating my file on this company.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale Passenger car [5 Attachments]     Here are a couple of pictures of a Super Scale Open Ended Baggage car . If you read the one little box saying that car is copper but the inside has been tinned with lead so easier to solder. It has O/B and assembly/plan sheet. It's the only Super Scale passenger car I have found that someone else had started. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18831	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Hello Walter,   Yes, that is true.  I will be adding the locos mentioned next.  Do you have any info for Exacta?  I do not at this time.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Copper HO     In the "Files" section of the group website you will find a spreadsheet purporting to list the items produced by Super Scale. V List Super Scale cars.xls The locos are not listed, but Super Scale passenger cars are. I believe they are all heavyweight cars.   There is no V List for Exacta cars as yet.   -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18832	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18833	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /V List Super Scale cars.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of Super Scale car kits You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/V%20List%20Super%20Scale%20cars.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18834	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and change over to Central Lines. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18835	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

This would be very interesting to model.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 11:13 AM   The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18836	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

Easy, Two guts go together to buy a GG1 and each ends up with a switcher.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Riverboy Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1     This would be very interesting to model.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 11:13 AM   The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18837	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

The only  trick would be developing a mechanism to make it run.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Sun, 4/1/12, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 11:52 AM   Easy, Two guts go together to buy a GG1 and each ends up with a switcher.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Riverboy Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1     This would be very interesting to model.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 11:13 AM   The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18838	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

Make that “two guys get to……”   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hagen Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:53 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1     Easy, Two guts go together to buy a GG1 and each ends up with a switcher.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Riverboy Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1     This would be very interesting to model.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 11:13 AM   The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18839	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this.  I did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site.  With all the info on HO Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed.  Any thoughts about that?   Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:43 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO     For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and change over to Central Lines. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18840	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

Wow! Don's Milwaukee Northern half-GG1 actually does have a prototype. Don, where is that photo now? I looked under the zDon Dellmann's stuff folders, under the locomotives folder, and did not see it. I either missed it or it is in some other folder. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 10:13 AM   The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18841	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

My first reaction was that this was April 1st.  But somebody would have done some superb photoshopping to produce this image.   You can find all sorts of references and other photos by searching for GG1 4846.   It was made from a wreck and also served as a snow melter which is an interesting detail at the back of the thing.   Once again the old adage is proved that "there's a prototype for everything".   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 8:13 AM Subject: [vintageHO] FW: No wrong way to build a GG1   The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067 Just so you know.  Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18842	From: al45390	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

Chuck, Jim H. and Gerold Eckl are the best sources of info. My collection is very small. I think the V Lists are a useful tool because they summarize things succinctly. HOSeeker doesn't try to do the same thing. It has loads of info, but it can be a bear to plow through, and you are on your own compiling the kind of info that is neatly laid out in the V Lists. HOSeeker does not have the summaries cutting across the years in which the variations were produced. Together, the V Lists and HOSeeker are far more helpful than either alone, and we would all be the poorer if one or the other were to disappear. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this. I > did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site. With all the info on HO > Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed. Any > thoughts about that? > > > > Take care, > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:43 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO > > > > > > > > For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts > list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the > Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. > > Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made > from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the > Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and > change over to Central Lines. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18843	From: Morgan Smith	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: John Allen

I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have info on this subject?  MorganS

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18844	From: al45390	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen

There's a GandD Yahoo Group. That was his model RR. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: > > I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.� His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.� I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.� Also the rail appears lightweight.� I'm guessing he hand laid the track.� I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.� Does anybody have info on this subject?� MorganS >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18845	From: Nelson	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Progress on HH660

What a transformation, Jim. Here's the link to your farm fresh (as they say on American Pickers) pictures from the attachments section. http://tinyurl.com/7xvk952 Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Got tired of filing. Must do a little more so I played > with some handrail and steps. You can still see a couple of scratches > but the camera in Macro picks them up better then my eyes. The dark line > on the front is epoxy that I had to fill in when previous builder > soldered they left a gap that I didn't want to play with so I just > filled it in. Still have to drill 2 holes to put back handrail on. The > roof just lying on top of body but does have to big screws to pull roof > tight to body. > > Wish I had the before picture when I bought it off eBay to > put aside of this after ( but not finished ) > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18846	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

All of the Exacta lightweight car wrappers, both "Budd" and "smooth" were nickel plated copper.  The flat sides for the original Central Lines (same manufacturer) heavy weight cars were also copper.  During the Korean War, nickel-plated zinc replaced copper.  I am unsure whether or not Exacta resumed copper production following the Korean war.   However, Central Lines continued their line of cars for some time, using a type of solvent-resistant thermoplastic stamped out in the same dies used for the copper sides.  In inventory,  I have in inventory examples of all of these permutations. Denny     Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18847	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Denny,    You have me a little confused or am I missing something concerning  your first sentence  ending in nickel plated copper. Would not the nickel plating show up as "silver" in color. I have mint kits with bodies flat (not used) in copper color or does you statement have something to do with " lightweight car wrappers ". (I sent an attachment of one mint Exacta/Central Lines last night and the body sure looks cooper with no coating. Would appreciate an explanation on what I'm missing. Thank You.                                                 Jim H On 4/1/2012 3:56 PM, dennyanspach wrote:   All of the Exacta lightweight car wrappers, both "Budd" and "smooth" were nickel plated copper.  The flat sides for the original Central Lines (same manufacturer) heavy weight cars were also copper.  During the Korean War, nickel-plated zinc replaced copper.  I am unsure whether or not Exacta resumed copper production following the Korean war.   However, Central Lines continued their line of cars for some time, using a type of solvent-resistant thermoplastic stamped out in the same dies used for the copper sides.  In inventory,  I have in inventory examples of all of these permutations. Denny     Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18848	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Info sources

Hi Chuck, On site. In my opinion having a number of sources like HO seeker and others is a good thing. The more information to check is OK with me. The only thing that bothers me is that we are all on the same page as far as information goes. Who knows someone else has a bit of information others don't and that one piece is helping to fill vintage HO history. My opinion only and might not be worth 2 cents. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18849	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost

Morgan,   A book was published some years ago on the Gorre & Daphetid but may now be out-of-print. A private collectort or used book store might have a copy.  I believe it woyuld answer many of your questions.   Additionally, the old story goes he had a few equally gifted friends who helped him build the layout. the "dark tale" alledges that, after his death, someone among his close group of friends destroyed the layout in the fire that destroyed his home because they wanted it to not fall into disrepaiur and "someone else's" hands. It's the stuff or "urban legends". I never heard of anyone being charged with arson with that loss.   Making a unique and almost unknown layout in OO was the wotrk of the late Ed Costerllo who lived in a Delaware suburb of Philadelphia. He was recognized as a NMRA Master Craftsman at the first Denver NMRA National Convention in 1977. He did extrude and build and hand-lay his own rail because OO was not available here in America in the 40's or 50's, or so he said in 1969 when I first paid the Saint Anne (his railroad's name...after his wife) in 1968. I saw it again with my then wife in August 1969. Fantastic...Eastern motiff...with working signals and traffic control. I wish it had been photo'ed and written up as much as John Allen's layout was.   John W. Batrlow (jdenver4150@...) --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: From: Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] John Allen To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 10:11 AM   I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have info on this subject?  MorganS

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18850	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

On 4/1/2012 10:13 AM, Chuck Higdon wrote: The  Wilmington  shops had a half of GG-1 as a shop switcher.   http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=100067   Just so you know.    Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 I believe that was the engine that was actually involved in the runaway incident where the locomotive went through the floor in the Washington DC station.   This was supposedly the inspiration for the ending of the Gene Wilder/Ricard Pryor remake of "SilverStreak". Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18851	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

On 4/1/2012 11:15 AM, Chuck Higdon wrote: Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this.  I did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site.  With all the info on HO Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed.  Any thoughts about that?   Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 As list owner, I want to say that I for one am glad your lists are here.  Not to take anything away from HO Seeker, the fact that the information is also here is tremendous resource for HO collectors. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18852	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

On 4/1/2012 11:16 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: Wow! Don's Milwaukee Northern half-GG1 actually does have a prototype. Don, where is that photo now? I looked under the zDon Dellmann's stuff folders, under the locomotives folder, and did not see it. I either missed it or it is in some other folder. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: I don't have it on the vintage page because it's not really "Vintage" but it is on my Flickr pages.     http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/2147998558/in/set-72157603108684961 That's where I keep an archive of ALL my rolling stock, not just the vintage stuff. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18853	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?

Don is correct. This is the Gilbert version of the Varney Koppers supplied by Varney to Gilbert. There is also a Varney shelled Gulf tanker with a 500 number. That too is a Varney supplied to Gilbert tank car. Gilberts' first cataloged tank car.  It did not have a platform nor any ladders. The same with the Varney supplied to Gilbert painted black 518 Koppers shell. The Varney Koppers is the red shell. Dom From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:46:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Koppers Chemicals tank car?   On 3/31/2012 9:04 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi all, Did Varney make a Kopper's Chemical and Plastics KPCX 518 tank car? If they did should it have ladders and a platform around the dome? Did anyone other than Gilbert make one. I checked a couple of sites with no success. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > I believe we had a discussion a few months back and the conclusion was that ANY Varney car with a three digit number in the "500" was ONLY sold under the Gilbert name. I can't answer the question about the platform, my Varney Becco chemical car does NOT have one, and there's no markings or indications on the shell that one was ever there. (i.e. not scratches or marks that one may have broken off) Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18854	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen

On 4/1/2012 1:45 PM, al45390 wrote: > There's a GandD Yahoo Group. That was his model RR. > Walter > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Morgan Smith<morgantownrr@...> wrote: >> I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.� His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.� I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.� Also the rail appears lightweight.� I'm guessing he hand laid the track.� I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.� Does anybody have info on this subject?� MorganS >> > The Group is " groups.yahoo.com/group/GandD " Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18855	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost

There is info online regarding the fire. If memory serves me correctly, there was an electric heater left on that caused the fire. A heater that was never used when John was alive but inadvertently left on by someone who had access to the layout. It was almost surreal as the fire that destroyed the G&D was after John Allens death? Almost as if he took it with him! Dom From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:21:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown   Morgan,   A book was published some years ago on the Gorre & Daphetid but may now be out-of-print. A private collectort or used book store might have a copy.  I believe it woyuld answer many of your questions.   Additionally, the old story goes he had a few equally gifted friends who helped him build the layout. the "dark tale" alledges that, after his death, someone among his close group of friends destroyed the layout in the fire that destroyed his home because they wanted it to not fall into disrepaiur and "someone else's" hands. It's the stuff or "urban legends". I never heard of anyone being charged with arson with that loss.   Making a unique and almost unknown layout in OO was the wotrk of the late Ed Costerllo who lived in a Delaware suburb of Philadelphia. He was recognized as a NMRA Master Craftsman at the first Denver NMRA National Convention in 1977. He did extrude and build and hand-lay his own rail because OO was not available here in America in the 40's or 50's, or so he said in 1969 when I first paid the Saint Anne (his railroad's name...after his wife) in 1968. I saw it again with my then wife in August 1969. Fantastic...Eastern motiff...with working signals and traffic control. I wish it had been photo'ed and written up as much as John Allen's layout was.   John W. Batrlow (jdenver4150@...) --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: From: Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] John Allen To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 10:11 AM   I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have info on this subject?  MorganS

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18856	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen

Here is an amazing web sight with all you may want to know about the G&D. The info regarding the fire is in here. When I was a very young kid with a basement layout of my own I came aware of John Allen and his pike. For me it was the greatest model railroad of all time. Even after almost 50 years it still amazes me. Dom http://www.gdlines.com/ From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: al45390 <bayerw2@...> Sent: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:31:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: John Allen   On 4/1/2012 1:45 PM, al45390 wrote: > There's a GandD Yahoo Group. That was his model RR. > Walter > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Morgan Smith<morgantownrr@...> wrote: >> I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.� His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.� I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.� Also the rail appears lightweight.� I'm guessing he hand laid the track.� I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.� Does anybody have info on this subject?� MorganS >> > The Group is " groups.yahoo.com/group/GandD " Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18857	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Jim, The pic of your Exacta car you sent last night certainly does look copperish in color -- which is a complete surprise to me, as all of mine are copper with nickle plating. I have all of the Exacta "Stainless Steel" Streamliner cars (kits) except for the Budd Pullman Sleeper (16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom), and all but one is nickle plated copper. My Budd 22 Passenger Sleeper is nickle plated zinc. The Central Lines Manufacturing Co./ Exacta catalog describes these cars as: "The Exacta new 'Stainless Steel' are molded of copper, then nickle plated to give the stainless steel appearance of the prototype." There are full (not full size) photographs very clearly showing built up versions of most of the Budd series cars, which depict them unmistakenly as having a silver-color metal finish. Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog describes these Exacta cars as: "CENTRAL LINES (under Streamline Passenger Cars HO -- Manufacturers' Construction Materials - pg 53) -- Nickle plated moulded copper sides and ends: wood and die cast parts." Perhaps your cars were manufactured during a slightly different time frame. Maybe earlier production Exacta did not come plated, but I have nothing on that to verify it. Some MR ads may show this, before 1950. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18858	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

Don, Chuck, Jim, I think the more info that's available, the better. As an example, while I haven't yet gone up the the HO Seeker site to check out what Exacta information is there, I do feel that I may have additional printed matter on all lines of Central Lines/Exacta models and others here may have more material on other manufacturers. While HO Seeker is becoming better and better, it's only as good as the input it's receiving from models and collectors like us and some of it still may be slow in coming. There's probably a good deal of material out there that hasn't been sent in to Larry to include on his site. Those V files would benefit from input by all sources. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18859	From: Glenn	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost

OK—I gotta clarify it again.   John had a gas floor furnace in the hallway on the main floor.    John only used it for short periods as when coming home after a trip to take the chill off.  He usually either had a fire in the fireplace  or a couple of burners on the gas stove in the kitchen while we were doing the Timesaver.  The housing of the heater hung below the floor joists.  It was a galvanized iron housing. John had built the scenery against it with a layer of tarpaper  to stave off rust.  He had the gas valve turned half-way off.    John’s brother and sister-in-law came to Monterey from Palm Springs when John died.  If you are familiar with California weather in January, you would realize that it was logical to turn on the furnace.  After a week or so the scenery at Cold Shoulder was well baked.  The Allens asked us to the house for a demonstratrion operating session, and got some of the members’ locos..  We all noticed that it was warmer than usual.  John had a gas wall heater in the basemen tkept at 68 degrees. This for his photo work,  and for operator comfort as he had a dress code of short-sleeved shirts to prevent snagging scenery.  Fire Marshal Al Forbes noted the floor furnace area as the starting point.    btw—Forbes’ boss was Fire Chief H.O.Scales.   Glenn Joesten I was the  potential live-in caretaker.    From: DOM ST.JOHN Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 5:45 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown   There is info online regarding the fire. If memory serves me correctly, there was an electric heater left on that caused the fire. A heater that was never used when John was alive but inadvertently left on by someone who had access to the layout. It was almost surreal as the fire that destroyed the G&D was after John Allens death? Almost as if he took it with him! Dom     From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:21:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown   Morgan,   A book was published some years ago on the Gorre & Daphetid but may now be out-of-print. A private collectort or used book store might have a copy.  I believe it woyuld answer many of your questions.   Additionally, the old story goes he had a few equally gifted friends who helped him build the layout. the "dark tale" alledges that, after his death, someone among his close group of friends destroyed the layout in the fire that destroyed his home because they wanted it to not fall into disrepaiur and "someone else's" hands. It's the stuff or "urban legends". I never heard of anyone being charged with arson with that loss.   Making a unique and almost unknown layout in OO was the wotrk of the late Ed Costerllo who lived in a Delaware suburb of Philadelphia. He was recognized as a NMRA Master Craftsman at the first Denver NMRA National Convention in 1977. He did extrude and build and hand-lay his own rail because OO was not available here in America in the 40's or 50's, or so he said in 1969 when I first paid the Saint Anne (his railroad's name...after his wife) in 1968. I saw it again with my then wife in August 1969. Fantastic...Eastern motiff...with working signals and traffic control. I wish it had been photo'ed and written up as much as John Allen's layout was.   John W. Batrlow (jdenver4150@...) --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: From: Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] John Allen To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 10:11 AM   I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have info on this subject?  MorganS

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18860	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Jim Heckard writes- You have me a little confused or am I missing something concerning  your first sentence ending in nickel plated copper. Would not the  nickel plating show up as "silver" in color. I have mint kits with  bodies flat (not used) in copper color or does you statement have  something to do with " lightweight car wrappers ". (I sent an attachment  of one mint Exacta/Central Lines last night and the body sure looks  cooper with no coating. Would appreciate an explanation on what I'm  missing. Thank You. No, you are missing anything.   Both the copper wrappers for the lightweight cars, as well as the flat copper heavyweight sides were nickel-plated, but obviously not all of them.  I knew the last owner of the Exacta/Central Lines business and inventory who lived near to where I lived at the time (early 1960's). I know little of the business before then, although I had known for some time about the products.  I am chagrined that I cannot at the moment recall the name of the person, but he was a professional custom locomotive model builder of considerable reputation (not Jerry White- who I also knew).   I am making inquiry to jog my memory. The entire inventory of dies and flat sheets of unfolded lightweight car wrappers were bundled into old fashioned bushel baskets.  These wrappers were all quite dirty, and most had the dull sheen of severely tarnished nickel .   Others were almost black with bare metal tarnish, most if not all unplated copper.  The owner pressed me on several occasions to buy the entire inventory, the price no more than about $50, if I recall.  Well, I had no wish to feed these elephants, my wife even less-so, so I declined.  He did sell me a basket (yes) full of  already-formed plated Exacta cars- about 60 0r so-, a box full of plated stamped ends, and some lengths of the milled flooring material. Over the years, I have finished about six of these streamlined Exacta cars  They were not easy, and all had to be re-plated to be presentable (to me).  Three of these cars sit on my layout, as we speak. They are all oversize to some degree, a fault that benefits from the "3-foot rule" . I have finished three of the Central Lines heavy weight cars -two baggage cars, and one baggage-RPO-all of which are also on my layout now, and made routine appearances on the West Bay Club layout (Menlo Park, CA) at the time when Glenn Joesten (a long time regular on this list) was also a member in the early '60s.   Over the years I have sold off almost all of the unfinished Exacta cars and parts, the most recent almost-final group to a modeler in Perth, Western Australia.  Noted in my inventory is an Exacta kit for a heavyweight " '75 ft. Parlor observation"  with plated copper sides. Noted especially are two Central Lines kits for the identical same car kit, but now with plastic sides.  Although the Exacta and Central Lines kit boxes were green and at a glance looked the same, the Central Lines boxes were distinctly smaller and darker green. To my knowledge, after I declined to purchase the Exacta inventory, they most probably went to scrap.   Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18861	From: William Anderson	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost

 The book, Model Railroading With John Allen, by Linn Westcott, has been reprinted and expanded, almost doubling the size. The new issue contains a wealth of new material and is well worth the purchase price, even for those who have a copy of the old printing. I give it a five star rating. A must have for all model railroaders.   Bill Anderson  ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown   OK—I gotta clarify it again.   John had a gas floor furnace in the hallway on the main floor.    John only used it for short periods as when coming home after a trip to take the chill off.  He usually either had a fire in the fireplace  or a couple of burners on the gas stove in the kitchen while we were doing the Timesaver.  The housing of the heater hung below the floor joists.  It was a galvanized iron housing. John had built the scenery against it with a layer of tarpaper  to stave off rust.  He had the gas valve turned half-way off.    John’s brother and sister-in-law came to Monterey from Palm Springs when John died.  If you are familiar with California weather in January, you would realize that it was logical to turn on the furnace.  After a week or so the scenery at Cold Shoulder was well baked.  The Allens asked us to the house for a demonstratrion operating session, and got some of the members’ locos..  We all noticed that it was warmer than usual.  John had a gas wall heater in the basemen tkept at 68 degrees. This for his photo work,  and for operator comfort as he had a dress code of short-sleeved shirts to prevent snagging scenery.  Fire Marshal Al Forbes noted the floor furnace area as the starting point.    btw—Forbes’ boss was Fire Chief H.O.Scales.   Glenn Joesten I was the  potential live-in caretaker.    From: DOM ST.JOHN Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 5:45 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown   There is info online regarding the fire. If memory serves me correctly, there was an electric heater left on that caused the fire. A heater that was never used when John was alive but inadvertently left on by someone who had access to the layout. It was almost surreal as the fire that destroyed the G&D was after John Allens death? Almost as if he took it with him! Dom     From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:21:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown   Morgan,   A book was published some years ago on the Gorre & Daphetid but may now be out-of-print. A private collectort or used book store might have a copy.  I believe it woyuld answer many of your questions.   Additionally, the old story goes he had a few equally gifted friends who helped him build the layout. the "dark tale" alledges that, after his death, someone among his close group of friends destroyed the layout in the fire that destroyed his home because they wanted it to not fall into disrepaiur and "someone else's" hands. It's the stuff or "urban legends". I never heard of anyone being charged with arson with that loss.   Making a unique and almost unknown layout in OO was the wotrk of the late Ed Costerllo who lived in a Delaware suburb of Philadelphia. He was recognized as a NMRA Master Craftsman at the first Denver NMRA National Convention in 1977. He did extrude and build and hand-lay his own rail because OO was not available here in America in the 40's or 50's, or so he said in 1969 when I first paid the Saint Anne (his railroad's name...after his wife) in 1968. I saw it again with my then wife in August 1969. Fantastic...Eastern motiff...with working signals and traffic control. I wish it had been photo'ed and written up as much as John Allen's layout was.   John W. Batrlow (jdenver4150@...) --- On Sun, 4/1/12, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: From: Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> Subject: [vintageHO] John Allen To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 10:11 AM   I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have info on this subject?  MorganS

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18862	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost

 I wouldn't exactly say it doubled in size.  It has 16 additional pages.  The original book is otherwise reproduced exactly.  Putting the two side by side it was very hard to discern any difference in photo print quality.  The overall colors seem slightly warmer in the newer book, a bit colder in the older.  But hard to tell if you didn't have them side by side.  The paper quality is very good and heavier making the book physically thicker (perhaps that's what "doubled in size" might mean?).  The printing had an error within the new pages where a paragraph got repeated.  Ab errata sheet will probably come with the book with what should have been printed where the repeated text is.   A lot of those 16 pages are scans of John Allen photos in various PFM catalogs (yours truly provided the publisher the catalogs).  Several pages have Jeffrey Witt's extensive list of publications with John Allen content.    Here is the publisher's site talking about the book.   http://www.bobhayden.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=77   Micro-Mark also sells it at a small discount from the list price:   http://www.micromark.com/Model-Railroading-With-John-Allen-Expanded-Hardcover-Edition,9892.html   By the way, here is Jeffrey Witt's site for G&D stuff,  It has enough to keep you busy looking at photos and reading articles for a very, very long time.   http://gorre-and-daphetid.witt-family.com/   And www.gdlines.com has already been mentioned.  Sharp eyed people will be able to find my likeness on that site related to a little contribution I made.  It's a great site (in spite of a photo of me).   This book is known on the GandD Yahoo group as "The Book".  There is also "The Tape" and more recently "The DVD".   Trivia question:  Was this book ever printed in another language?  Yes!  in French as "En train avec John Allen".   You can see it here:   http://users.skynet.be/pro-rail/_private/sor/frsormain11.htm   Chuck Kinzer ----- Original Message ----- From: William Anderson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] John Allen...the Book on His Layout...and Another Master Almost Unknown    The book, Model Railroading With John Allen, by Linn Westcott, has been reprinted and expanded, almost doubling the size. The new issue contains a wealth of new material and is well worth the purchase price, even for those who have a copy of the old printing. I give it a five star rating. A must have for all model railroaders.   Bill Anderson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18863	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: FW: No wrong way to build a GG1

I actually made a Half GG1 out of half of a Penn Line GG1 when I was a boy. still have it. And it runs - kind of. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18864	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Ray F , Denny,        I learned something I never knew that the Exacta streamlined cars were to have nickel plating over the copper body and maybe other people learned there are EXCEPTIONS or maybe a company mistake that got out without plating. I would never know this without these exchanges of information. And the same goes with keeping all files like the v files and HOseeker available to check. Now I wonder if my car is a mistake or were their a lot more like it.                                                                   Jim H On 4/1/2012 10:04 PM, erieberk@... wrote:   Jim, The pic of your Exacta car you sent last night certainly does look copperish in color -- which is a complete surprise to me, as all of mine are copper with nickle plating. I have all of the Exacta "Stainless Steel" Streamliner cars (kits) except for the Budd Pullman Sleeper (16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom), and all but one is nickle plated copper. My Budd 22 Passenger Sleeper is nickle plated zinc. The Central Lines Manufacturing Co./ Exacta catalog describes these cars as: "The Exacta new 'Stainless Steel' are molded of copper, then nickle plated to give the stainless steel appearance of the prototype." There are full (not full size) photographs very clearly showing built up versions of most of the Budd series cars, which depict them unmistakenly as having a silver-color metal finish. Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog describes these Exacta cars as: "CENTRAL LINES (under Streamline Passenger Cars HO -- Manufacturers' Construction Materials - pg 53) -- Nickle plated moulded copper sides and ends: wood and die cast parts." Perhaps your cars were manufactured during a slightly different time frame. Maybe earlier production Exacta did not come plated, but I have nothing on that to verify it. Some MR ads may show this, before 1950. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18865	From: Alan	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen

He handlaid his track using a truck for a track gauge,code 70 rail has been around for a long time. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: > > I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have info on this subject?  MorganS >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18866	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

I have only 1 Exacta Budd lightweight car, a coach. It is NOT plated. I bought it on eBay a few years ago. It is in mint condition. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18867	From: erieberk	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

Chuck, Had the chance to go up to Larry's HO Seeker site to see what Central Lines and Exacta info it contains. Note, he has two separate locations for both of these names. In checking it out, this is a case in point I was trying to make in my previous post, when stating that much can still be gained by using other sources. While you don't need to make spread sheets on Vintage HO from the input of members if you don't feel it's worth it, I regret to have to say that the HO Seeker Central Lines/Exacta info is FAR (extremely far) from complete after reviewing it. So, I still feel that it's very worthwhile to make files on this list for the various vintage HO manufacturers, if we want to keep the members well informed. HO Seeker is a very beneficial site, and it was even noticed that Jim Heckard sent in plans for Exacta Budd Type cars, which would be very helpful for anyone purchasing one of these kits which may not contain the paperwork -- but otherwise, the site still needs many additions for lots of manufacturers if you want to be able to rely just on this source instead of making V list files here. I did notice too, that your Exacta V list file only took advantage of one line of Central Lines products shown on HO seeker, instead of using the remainder of what Larry has there. Perhaps you just didn't see the rest, or maybe you're still meaning to get around to using more info there, of Central Lines/Exacta kits in the V list file. Found in HO Seeker for Central Lines/Exacta, are the B&O Coaches and the Old Fashioned Coaches 1951 besides the Budd Type Streamline Coaches 1946 that you've taken from that site. I'll fill in the rest of what's found on this manufacturer on HO seeker, using instead my material, since it's more complete, plus I'll write in all the rest of the missing material to make this file more complete. I'll start with Central Lines' address, which you have only as San Francisco. In the 1950 -- '52 era (and maybe longer), Central Lines' address was -- Central Lines Manufacturing Co., P.O. Box 728, Los Gatos, California. Now, getting right to the V list file and how Central Lines listed their more modern product lines, The streamlined Budd kits were listed as -- BUDD TYPE. These were "stainless steel" fluted-side cars. There was also a line of streamline smooth-side cars they advertised/listed as PULLMAN TYPE. Then, there was a line of clerestory roof heavyweight cars they listed as STANDARD TYPE. Before going much further, I would just like to make a couple of additions and corrections to your sheet. On your line 12 -- this car is to be listed under the heading -- PULLMAN TYPE (the car itself is not a "Pullman"). Don't ask me why Central Lines referred to their entire series of smooth-side streamlined cars as "PULLMAN TYPE," but perhaps that's how they knew them back in those years. The catalog #250 is the first one in this series. One addition to be made to your BUDD TYPE list is catalog #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom. I know you try to abbreviate the car types to save space in the spread sheet, so you can shorten it as you please, but I just wanted to give you the full catalog name for this car here. I'll start the listing with the oldest types of kits and work forward: Central Lines 'Oldies' Original B&O Coaches -- 1863 Baggage - 40' 1863 Coach - 45' 1866 Combine - 45' Central Line Old Fashioned Coaches -- (In HO and O gauges) -- Wagner's 'Palace' Sleeping Car - 51' (catalog #701) Virginia & Truckee Combine - 45' Vestibule End Coach -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models Observation Parlor Car -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models U.S. Postal Car -- Circa 1900 - 50' Smoker-Baggage -- 1898 - 54' Passenger Coach -- 1898 - 50' Business/Pay Car -- 1898 - 54' Baggage Car -- 1898 - 50' Combine -- 1898 - 50' Exacta STANDARD TYPE -- #500 Postal Baggage (Railway Express) #501 Express Baggage #502 80 Passenger Day Coach #503 Standard Day Coach #506 Pullman Standard - 6 Comp., 3 Drw Room #507 Pullman -- 14 Section, 1 Drw Room #508 Standard Diner #510 Pullman -- 4 Comp., Observation Lounge #511 S.P. Observation (Earlier Era) Exacta (Streamlined) BUDD TYPE -- As per your V list file -- With the addition of - #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom Exacta (Streamlined) PULLMAN TYPE -- #250 Combination Mail and Baggage #251 60 Passenger Coach #252 Day-Night Coach, 48 Passenger #253 Sleeper, 24 Duplex Roomette #254 Lounge - Lunch Counter - Crew Dormitory #255 Dining Car #256 Sleeper, 8 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms, 4 Sections #257 Sleeper, 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms #258 Pullman Observation Lounge Exacta MISC -- #601 Street Car #602 Interurban That should wrap it up, Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this. I > did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site. With all the info on HO > Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed. Any > thoughts about that? > > > > Take care, > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:43 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO > > > > > > > > For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts > list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the > Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. > > Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made > from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the > Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and > change over to Central Lines. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18868	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: John Allen

Hi All, Back in the early 50s I saw an article in MR about a 2mm scale layout. 2mm was florishing in Britain and the far east at a scale of 1:148/150 using a track gauge of 9mm. At that time it hadn't yet garnered a letter type designation like HO (half O) or "OO" (1:76 in Britain). TT gauge was pretty popular in the US and ROKO was starting to make RTR TT available in the US (1:100). HP had over 20 loco kits available in TT and I don't recall who else was doing US style TT. HP track was handlaid code 70 and the author of the article used the TT rail handlaid to 9mm gauge. At the time he wrote the article he hadn't yet built a loco but he had built a 2' x 3' double loop layout with several handlaid turnouts and a number of freight cars and buildings. In the early 50s most of us on the east coast and the rapidly growing LA regions lived in small homes of 100 sq ft or less. One company, Miles Homes, had been selling precut 2 car garages shipped around the country by rail; when they learned that may returning vets were using these as the basis for a two bedroom home they started selling pre-cut 2 bedroom home packages. Model railroading was growing by leaps and bounds and it seemed that the goal was to see how much trackage and how many switching puxxles could be packed into a minimum of space. Many of the layouts depicted in MR and RMC were fold-away HO layouts of 5'x9' and smaller. For folks who lived in row-houses of 12' to 16' width big layouts were totally out of the question! The original G and D was quite small with what I recall as 12" radius curves ruling the layout. Very detailed and beautifully exeucuted. This first layout was incorporated in the latter layouts. My Dad told me that the layout was built in a dug-out cellar when he first visited and the original layout was surrounded by dirt! One of my favorite memories is of a sway backed wood boxcar that concealed a "huge" ball bearing mounted on rails. He would invitte visitors to try their hand at swiching puzzles and "forget to tell them about the ball bearing boxcar ! Dad said that he also required visitors to use his wrecking train to clear the tracks after the inevitable derailments. He was a master modeler who never forgot that above all the hobby had to be enjoyable. Everything he did blended the nuances of childhood toys with the attention to detail of museum display quality construction. Operation on his layout was a total learning experience of the hows and whys of both systems and equipment. For years I have heard that within days of his demise his work was destroyed by a fire. It is truly a lamentable situation that the work of this master exits for the most part within the memories of the few who were priviledged to know him personally. jake Bechtel On 4/2/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: > He handlaid his track using a truck for a track gauge,code 70 rail has been > around for a long time. > Alan > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Morgan Smith <morgantownrr@...> wrote: >> >> I am ever amazed at what John Allen was able to do.  His smallest areas >> looked weather worn, real, busy, part of an actual system of towns, >> people, etc. The track seemed to go somewhere.  I notice his track is >> ground level with earth more than ballast packed around the ties.  Also >> the rail appears lightweight.  I'm guessing he hand laid the track.  I >> didn't know lighter weight rail was available then.  Does anybody have >> info on this subject?  MorganS >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18869	From: Larry	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay

Kind of reminds me of some of the locomotives in the movie The Train with Burt Lancaster. If you haven't seen it, it is worth the cost of rental, even if it is only a black & white film from 1964. Larry Miller III From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Interesting piece on eBay Group,   This is off-topic but still an very neat HO steam loco. It’s a German model of a German prototype from WWII era. But the detail borders on fantastic! I know that Overland and Precision Scale among others have done some truly nice work but this is the best I’ve seen in HO. The level of detail approaches Koh’s and Company’s O scale stuff.   It has 5 – 6 good quality photos, including an underside view, and uses eBay magnifying system so you can get a decent look at it.   Take a few minutes and check it out, especially the area of the drivers and frame.   Item #200734416418   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18870	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

Ray,   Since I had no idea about the extent of the Exact line, I just started something with the hopes more info would appear.  You have provided much more now and I will add that.  Thanks.   Not really knowing how much people do use the V lists, I just wondered if they were even looked at.  I see now that they are and have been.  I will keep working on them.    Just a note to all, Jerry Stevenson had sent Russell Shiel paper copies of his spreadsheet about the Kar-Line cars.  Russell in turn sent me scans of them that I forwarded on to Larry Stevenson at HO Seeker.  Larry has added them to his site.  I will not be making a V list for Kar-Line.  In this case, they would have the same info.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO     Chuck, Had the chance to go up to Larry's HO Seeker site to see what Central Lines and Exacta info it contains. Note, he has two separate locations for both of these names. In checking it out, this is a case in point I was trying to make in my previous post, when stating that much can still be gained by using other sources. While you don't need to make spread sheets on Vintage HO from the input of members if you don't feel it's worth it, I regret to have to say that the HO Seeker Central Lines/Exacta info is FAR (extremely far) from complete after reviewing it. So, I still feel that it's very worthwhile to make files on this list for the various vintage HO manufacturers, if we want to keep the members well informed. HO Seeker is a very beneficial site, and it was even noticed that Jim Heckard sent in plans for Exacta Budd Type cars, which would be very helpful for anyone purchasing one of these kits which may not contain the paperwork -- but otherwise, the site still needs many additions for lots of manufacturers if you want to be able to rely just on this source instead of making V list files here. I did notice too, that your Exacta V list file only took advantage of one line of Central Lines products shown on HO seeker, instead of using the remainder of what Larry has there. Perhaps you just didn't see the rest, or maybe you're still meaning to get around to using more info there, of Central Lines/Exacta kits in the V list file. Found in HO Seeker for Central Lines/Exacta, are the B&O Coaches and the Old Fashioned Coaches 1951 besides the Budd Type Streamline Coaches 1946 that you've taken from that site. I'll fill in the rest of what's found on this manufacturer on HO seeker, using instead my material, since it's more complete, plus I'll write in all the rest of the missing material to make this file more complete. I'll start with Central Lines' address, which you have only as San Francisco . In the 1950 -- '52 era (and maybe longer), Central Lines' address was -- Central Lines Manufacturing Co., P.O. Box 728, Los Gatos, California. Now, getting right to the V list file and how Central Lines listed their more modern product lines, The streamlined Budd kits were listed as -- BUDD TYPE. These were "stainless steel" fluted-side cars. There was also a line of streamline smooth-side cars they advertised/listed as PULLMAN TYPE. Then, there was a line of clerestory roof heavyweight cars they listed as STANDARD TYPE. Before going much further, I would just like to make a couple of additions and corrections to your sheet. On your line 12 -- this car is to be listed under the heading -- PULLMAN TYPE (the car itself is not a " Pullman "). Don't ask me why Central Lines referred to their entire series of smooth-side streamlined cars as "PULLMAN TYPE," but perhaps that's how they knew them back in those years. The catalog #250 is the first one in this series. One addition to be made to your BUDD TYPE list is catalog #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom. I know you try to abbreviate the car types to save space in the spread sheet, so you can shorten it as you please, but I just wanted to give you the full catalog name for this car here. I'll start the listing with the oldest types of kits and work forward: Central Lines 'Oldies' Original B&O Coaches -- 1863 Baggage - 40' 1863 Coach - 45' 1866 Combine - 45' Central Line Old Fashioned Coaches -- (In HO and O gauges) -- Wagner's 'Palace' Sleeping Car - 51' (catalog #701) Virginia & Truckee Combine - 45' Vestibule End Coach -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models Observation Parlor Car -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models U.S. Postal Car -- Circa 1900 - 50' Smoker-Baggage -- 1898 - 54' Passenger Coach -- 1898 - 50' Business/Pay Car -- 1898 - 54' Baggage Car -- 1898 - 50' Combine -- 1898 - 50' Exacta STANDARD TYPE -- #500 Postal Baggage (Railway Express) #501 Express Baggage #502 80 Passenger Day Coach #503 Standard Day Coach #506 Pullman Standard - 6 Comp., 3 Drw Room #507 Pullman -- 14 Section, 1 Drw Room #508 Standard Diner #510 Pullman -- 4 Comp., Observation Lounge #511 S.P. Observation (Earlier Era) Exacta (Streamlined) BUDD TYPE -- As per your V list file -- With the addition of - #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom Exacta (Streamlined) PULLMAN TYPE -- #250 Combination Mail and Baggage #251 60 Passenger Coach #252 Day-Night Coach, 48 Passenger #253 Sleeper, 24 Duplex Roomette #254 Lounge - Lunch Counter - Crew Dormitory #255 Dining Car #256 Sleeper, 8 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms, 4 Sections #257 Sleeper, 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms #258 Pullman Observation Lounge Exacta MISC -- #601 Street Car #602 Interurban That should wrap it up, Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this. I > did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site. With all the info on HO > Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed. Any > thoughts about that? > > > > Take care, > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:43 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO > > > > > > > > For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts > list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the > Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. > > Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made > from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the > Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and > change over to Central Lines. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18871	From: erieberk	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Jim, Well, you could say that I learned something too, that Exacta may have sold unplated copper models, regularly. At least, it's starting to look like this may have been the way they were being sold at one time, with the additional input by Walter. While that was previously only a guess on my part, perhaps this was the way Exacta marketed them before being bought out by Central Lines. At least that would make some sense to what you guys have. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Ray F , Denny, > > I learned something I never knew that the Exacta streamlined > cars were to have nickel plating over the copper body and maybe other > people learned there are EXCEPTIONS or maybe a company mistake that got > out without plating. I would never know this without these exchanges of > information. And the same goes with keeping all files like the v files > and HOseeker available to check. Now I wonder if my car is a mistake or > were their a lot more like it. > > Jim H > > > > > > > On 4/1/2012 10:04 PM, erieberk@... wrote: > > > > Jim, > > > > The pic of your Exacta car you sent last night certainly does look > > copperish in color -- which is a complete surprise to me, as all of > > mine are copper > > with nickle plating. I have all of the Exacta "Stainless Steel" > > Streamliner > > cars (kits) except for the Budd Pullman Sleeper (16 Duplex Roomette, 4 > > Bedroom), and all but one is nickle plated copper. My Budd 22 > > Passenger Sleeper > > is nickle plated zinc. > > > > The Central Lines Manufacturing Co./ Exacta catalog describes these cars > > as: > > "The Exacta new 'Stainless Steel' are molded of copper, then nickle > > plated > > to give the stainless steel appearance of the prototype." There are full > > (not full size) photographs very clearly showing built up versions of > > most of > > the Budd series cars, which depict them unmistakenly as having a > > silver-color metal finish. > > > > Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog describes these > > Exacta > > cars as: > > "CENTRAL LINES (under Streamline Passenger Cars HO -- Manufacturers' > > Construction Materials - pg 53) -- > > Nickle plated moulded copper sides and ends: wood and die cast parts." > > > > Perhaps your cars were manufactured during a slightly different time > > frame. > > Maybe earlier production Exacta did not come plated, but I have > > nothing on > > that to verify it. Some MR ads may show this, before 1950. > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > </HTML> > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18872	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Ray F W      Just a small problem my box on the sticker on the end say Exacta by Central Lines. I don't know what to think. More info and we will figure it out. Inside O/B the little parts bags are stamped Central Lines.                                                                                 Jim On 4/2/2012 1:22 PM, erieberk wrote:   Jim, Well, you could say that I learned something too, that Exacta may have sold unplated copper models, regularly. At least, it's starting to look like this may have been the way they were being sold at one time, with the additional input by Walter. While that was previously only a guess on my part, perhaps this was the way Exacta marketed them before being bought out by Central Lines. At least that would make some sense to what you guys have. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Ray F , Denny, > > I learned something I never knew that the Exacta streamlined > cars were to have nickel plating over the copper body and maybe other > people learned there are EXCEPTIONS or maybe a company mistake that got > out without plating. I would never know this without these exchanges of > information. And the same goes with keeping all files like the v files > and HOseeker available to check. Now I wonder if my car is a mistake or > were their a lot more like it. > > Jim H > > > > > > > On 4/1/2012 10:04 PM, erieberk@... wrote: > > > > Jim, > > > > The pic of your Exacta car you sent last night certainly does look > > copperish in color -- which is a complete surprise to me, as all of > > mine are copper > > with nickle plating. I have all of the Exacta "Stainless Steel" > > Streamliner > > cars (kits) except for the Budd Pullman Sleeper (16 Duplex Roomette, 4 > > Bedroom), and all but one is nickle plated copper. My Budd 22 > > Passenger Sleeper > > is nickle plated zinc. > > > > The Central Lines Manufacturing Co./ Exacta catalog describes these cars > > as: > > "The Exacta new 'Stainless Steel' are molded of copper, then nickle > > plated > > to give the stainless steel appearance of the prototype." There are full > > (not full size) photographs very clearly showing built up versions of > > most of > > the Budd series cars, which depict them unmistakenly as having a > > silver-color metal finish. > > > > Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog describes these > > Exacta > > cars as: > > "CENTRAL LINES (under Streamline Passenger Cars HO -- Manufacturers' > > Construction Materials - pg 53) -- > > Nickle plated moulded copper sides and ends: wood and die cast parts." > > > > Perhaps your cars were manufactured during a slightly different time > > frame. > > Maybe earlier production Exacta did not come plated, but I have > > nothing on > > that to verify it. Some MR ads may show this, before 1950. > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > </HTML> > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18873	From: hooligan	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay

That is a great WWII movie , the wreck sequences are awesome . The movie people got yelled at really bad for wrecking those steamers . The Bombing scene in the marshalling yards is epic . Not too bad for 1964 ? Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > This is off-topic but still an very neat HO steam loco. It's a German model > of a German prototype from WWII era. But the detail borders on fantastic! I > know that Overland and Precision Scale among others have done some truly > nice work but this is the best I've seen in HO. The level of detail > approaches Koh's and Company's O scale stuff. > > > > It has 5 - 6 good quality photos, including an underside view, and uses eBay > magnifying system so you can get a decent look at it. > > > > Take a few minutes and check it out, especially the area of the drivers and > frame. > > > > Item #200734416418 > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18874	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

I have added a revised file to the list for review.  The San Francisco address was on one of the copies that I saw.  I have added the Los Gatos as well.  I have other passenger car files and I try to keep all of my abbreviations the same.   I welcome any corrections, as it was confusing in the beginning.  But it is making more sense now.  I will add a note about the material and finishes soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO     Chuck, Had the chance to go up to Larry's HO Seeker site to see what Central Lines and Exacta info it contains. Note, he has two separate locations for both of these names. In checking it out, this is a case in point I was trying to make in my previous post, when stating that much can still be gained by using other sources. While you don't need to make spread sheets on Vintage HO from the input of members if you don't feel it's worth it, I regret to have to say that the HO Seeker Central Lines/Exacta info is FAR (extremely far) from complete after reviewing it. So, I still feel that it's very worthwhile to make files on this list for the various vintage HO manufacturers, if we want to keep the members well informed. HO Seeker is a very beneficial site, and it was even noticed that Jim Heckard sent in plans for Exacta Budd Type cars, which would be very helpful for anyone purchasing one of these kits which may not contain the paperwork -- but otherwise, the site still needs many additions for lots of manufacturers if you want to be able to rely just on this source instead of making V list files here. I did notice too, that your Exacta V list file only took advantage of one line of Central Lines products shown on HO seeker, instead of using the remainder of what Larry has there. Perhaps you just didn't see the rest, or maybe you're still meaning to get around to using more info there, of Central Lines/Exacta kits in the V list file. Found in HO Seeker for Central Lines/Exacta, are the B&O Coaches and the Old Fashioned Coaches 1951 besides the Budd Type Streamline Coaches 1946 that you've taken from that site. I'll fill in the rest of what's found on this manufacturer on HO seeker, using instead my material, since it's more complete, plus I'll write in all the rest of the missing material to make this file more complete. I'll start with Central Lines' address, which you have only as San Francisco . In the 1950 -- '52 era (and maybe longer), Central Lines' address was -- Central Lines Manufacturing Co., P.O. Box 728, Los Gatos, California. Now, getting right to the V list file and how Central Lines listed their more modern product lines, The streamlined Budd kits were listed as -- BUDD TYPE. These were "stainless steel" fluted-side cars. There was also a line of streamline smooth-side cars they advertised/listed as PULLMAN TYPE. Then, there was a line of clerestory roof heavyweight cars they listed as STANDARD TYPE. Before going much further, I would just like to make a couple of additions and corrections to your sheet. On your line 12 -- this car is to be listed under the heading -- PULLMAN TYPE (the car itself is not a " Pullman "). Don't ask me why Central Lines referred to their entire series of smooth-side streamlined cars as "PULLMAN TYPE," but perhaps that's how they knew them back in those years. The catalog #250 is the first one in this series. One addition to be made to your BUDD TYPE list is catalog #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom. I know you try to abbreviate the car types to save space in the spread sheet, so you can shorten it as you please, but I just wanted to give you the full catalog name for this car here. I'll start the listing with the oldest types of kits and work forward: Central Lines 'Oldies' Original B&O Coaches -- 1863 Baggage - 40' 1863 Coach - 45' 1866 Combine - 45' Central Line Old Fashioned Coaches -- (In HO and O gauges) -- Wagner's 'Palace' Sleeping Car - 51' (catalog #701) Virginia & Truckee Combine - 45' Vestibule End Coach -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models Observation Parlor Car -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models U.S. Postal Car -- Circa 1900 - 50' Smoker-Baggage -- 1898 - 54' Passenger Coach -- 1898 - 50' Business/Pay Car -- 1898 - 54' Baggage Car -- 1898 - 50' Combine -- 1898 - 50' Exacta STANDARD TYPE -- #500 Postal Baggage (Railway Express) #501 Express Baggage #502 80 Passenger Day Coach #503 Standard Day Coach #506 Pullman Standard - 6 Comp., 3 Drw Room #507 Pullman -- 14 Section, 1 Drw Room #508 Standard Diner #510 Pullman -- 4 Comp., Observation Lounge #511 S.P. Observation (Earlier Era) Exacta (Streamlined) BUDD TYPE -- As per your V list file -- With the addition of - #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom Exacta (Streamlined) PULLMAN TYPE -- #250 Combination Mail and Baggage #251 60 Passenger Coach #252 Day-Night Coach, 48 Passenger #253 Sleeper, 24 Duplex Roomette #254 Lounge - Lunch Counter - Crew Dormitory #255 Dining Car #256 Sleeper, 8 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms, 4 Sections #257 Sleeper, 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms #258 Pullman Observation Lounge Exacta MISC -- #601 Street Car #602 Interurban That should wrap it up, Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this. I > did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site. With all the info on HO > Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed. Any > thoughts about that? > > > > Take care, > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:43 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO > > > > > > > > For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts > list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the > Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. > > Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made > from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the > Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and > change over to Central Lines. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18875	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay

You can probably get it on a dvd on eBay for what a rental will cost or a bit more. I found several one day while looking for some movies and was surprised how cheap it was.   Supposedly the scene where they “bombed” the armored steamer wasn’t planned. The engines was discovered in a shed they had rented. Apparently no one was aware of it. So the movie people found it one day and came with the bombing scene it the next day or two before any of the steam preservationists could find out. That is probably what they got in trouble for. The other stock they damaged or totaled was going to the scrappers anyway.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hooligan Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:55 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Interesting piece on eBay     That is a great WWII movie , the wreck sequences are awesome . The movie people got yelled at really bad for wrecking those steamers . The Bombing scene in the marshalling yards is epic . Not too bad for 1964 ? Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > This is off-topic but still an very neat HO steam loco. It's a German model > of a German prototype from WWII era. But the detail borders on fantastic! I > know that Overland and Precision Scale among others have done some truly > nice work but this is the best I've seen in HO. The level of detail > approaches Koh's and Company's O scale stuff. > > > > It has 5 - 6 good quality photos, including an underside view, and uses eBay > magnifying system so you can get a decent look at it. > > > > Take a few minutes and check it out, especially the area of the drivers and > frame. > > > > Item #200734416418 > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18876	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: other Exacta address

Hi Chuck, All, My instruction sheet has another Exacta address It is "Exacta Scale Models, Inc. 4215 No. Vancouver Avenue Portland 11, Oregon". When I picked my flat copper body up out of the O/B I happened to flip to the back side which when assembled would be the inside It is "tinned" with something like nickel but not smooth. I know Super Scale"tinned" the inside of their passenger cars so it could easily be soldered to but I have no idea what either company had to be soldered on the inside of the body. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18877	From: Charles	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay

"Only" in black and white? I believe this was a deliberate choice to help make it feel more period. Director Frankenhiemers comment about this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Train_(1964_film) "Frankenheimer remarked on the DVD commentary, "Incidentally, I think this is the last big action picture ever made in black and white, and personally I am so grateful that it is in black and white. I think the black and white adds tremendously to the movie."" Compare to the 1965 "Von Ryan's Express" which is in color. It actually looks less gritty and real to me. Sometimes, color is a distraction. You can also see how to pour a babbitt bearing in the movie. And at the Wikipedia site you can read about how Lancaster injured his knee in real life and they made a change in the movie to have him get shot to explain the limping for the rest of the movie. I suppose movie reviews are off topic. Couldn't help myself. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry <mrncartoon@...> wrote: > > Kind of reminds me of some of the locomotives in the movie The Train with Burt Lancaster. If you haven't seen it, it is worth the cost of rental, even if it is only a black & white film from 1964. > > Larry Miller III > > > ________________________________ > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:43 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Interesting piece on eBay > > > > > > > Group, >   > This is off-topic but still an very neat HO steam loco. It’s a German model of a German prototype from WWII era. But the detail borders on fantastic! I know that Overland and Precision Scale among others have done some truly nice work but this is the best I’ve seen in HO. The level of detail approaches Koh’s and Company’s O scale stuff. >   > It has 5 â€" 6 good quality photos, including an underside view, and uses eBay magnifying system so you can get a decent look at it. >   > Take a few minutes and check it out, especially the area of the drivers and frame. >   > Item #200734416418 >   > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18878	From: erieberk	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO

Chuck, The revised Central Lines file looks good to me. Gives anyone collecting them a good idea now of just what to expect of what was produced. Another good job on your part, thanks again. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > I have added a revised file to the list for review. The San Francisco > address was on one of the copies that I saw. I have added the Los Gatos as > well. I have other passenger car files and I try to keep all of my > abbreviations the same. > > > > I welcome any corrections, as it was confusing in the beginning. But it is > making more sense now. I will add a note about the material and finishes > soon. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:36 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO > > > > > > Chuck, > > Had the chance to go up to Larry's HO Seeker site to see what Central Lines > and Exacta info it contains. Note, he has two separate locations for both of > these names. In checking it out, this is a case in point I was trying to > make in my previous post, when stating that much can still be gained by > using other sources. While you don't need to make spread sheets on Vintage > HO from the input of members if you don't feel it's worth it, I regret to > have to say that the HO Seeker Central Lines/Exacta info is FAR (extremely > far) from complete after reviewing it. > > So, I still feel that it's very worthwhile to make files on this list for > the various vintage HO manufacturers, if we want to keep the members well > informed. HO Seeker is a very beneficial site, and it was even noticed that > Jim Heckard sent in plans for Exacta Budd Type cars, which would be very > helpful for anyone purchasing one of these kits which may not contain the > paperwork -- but otherwise, the site still needs many additions for lots of > manufacturers if you want to be able to rely just on this source instead of > making V list files here. > > I did notice too, that your Exacta V list file only took advantage of one > line of Central Lines products shown on HO seeker, instead of using the > remainder of what Larry has there. Perhaps you just didn't see the rest, or > maybe you're still meaning to get around to using more info there, of > Central Lines/Exacta kits in the V list file. Found in HO Seeker for Central > Lines/Exacta, are the B&O Coaches and the Old Fashioned Coaches 1951 besides > the Budd Type Streamline Coaches 1946 that you've taken from that site. I'll > fill in the rest of what's found on this manufacturer on HO seeker, using > instead my material, since it's more complete, plus I'll write in all the > rest of the missing material to make this file more complete. > > I'll start with Central Lines' address, which you have only as San > Francisco. In the 1950 -- '52 era (and maybe longer), Central Lines' address > was -- Central Lines Manufacturing Co., P.O. Box 728, Los Gatos, California. > > Now, getting right to the V list file and how Central Lines listed their > more modern product lines, The streamlined Budd kits were listed as -- BUDD > TYPE. These were "stainless steel" fluted-side cars. There was also a line > of streamline smooth-side cars they advertised/listed as PULLMAN TYPE. Then, > there was a line of clerestory roof heavyweight cars they listed as STANDARD > TYPE. > > Before going much further, I would just like to make a couple of additions > and corrections to your sheet. On your line 12 -- this car is to be listed > under the heading -- PULLMAN TYPE (the car itself is not a "Pullman"). Don't > ask me why Central Lines referred to their entire series of smooth-side > streamlined cars as "PULLMAN TYPE," but perhaps that's how they knew them > back in those years. The catalog #250 is the first one in this series. One > addition to be made to your BUDD TYPE list is catalog #117 Pullman Sleeper > -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom. I know you try to abbreviate the car types > to save space in the spread sheet, so you can shorten it as you please, but > I just wanted to give you the full catalog name for this car here. > > I'll start the listing with the oldest types of kits and work forward: > > Central Lines 'Oldies' Original B&O Coaches -- > > 1863 Baggage - 40' > 1863 Coach - 45' > 1866 Combine - 45' > > > Central Line Old Fashioned Coaches -- (In HO and O gauges) -- > > Wagner's 'Palace' Sleeping Car - 51' (catalog #701) > Virginia & Truckee Combine - 45' > Vestibule End Coach -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models > Observation Parlor Car -- 1908 - In 75' and 65' Models > U.S. Postal Car -- Circa 1900 - 50' > Smoker-Baggage -- 1898 - 54' > Passenger Coach -- 1898 - 50' > Business/Pay Car -- 1898 - 54' > Baggage Car -- 1898 - 50' > Combine -- 1898 - 50' > > Exacta > STANDARD TYPE -- > > #500 Postal Baggage (Railway Express) > #501 Express Baggage > #502 80 Passenger Day Coach > #503 Standard Day Coach > #506 Pullman Standard - 6 Comp., 3 Drw Room > #507 Pullman -- 14 Section, 1 Drw Room > #508 Standard Diner > #510 Pullman -- 4 Comp., Observation Lounge > #511 S.P. Observation (Earlier Era) > > Exacta (Streamlined) > BUDD TYPE -- > > As per your V list file -- > With the addition of - > > #117 Pullman Sleeper -- 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedroom > > Exacta (Streamlined) > PULLMAN TYPE -- > > #250 Combination Mail and Baggage > #251 60 Passenger Coach > #252 Day-Night Coach, 48 Passenger > #253 Sleeper, 24 Duplex Roomette > #254 Lounge - Lunch Counter - Crew Dormitory > #255 Dining Car > #256 Sleeper, 8 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms, 4 Sections > #257 Sleeper, 16 Duplex Roomette, 4 Bedrooms > #258 Pullman Observation Lounge > > Exacta > MISC -- > > #601 Street Car > #602 Interurban > > That should wrap it up, > > Ray F. Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> wrote: > > > > Yes Jim, I was looking at the Exacta info in HO Seeker as you wrote this. > I > > did make a file for Exacta by looking at that site. With all the info on > HO > > Seeker, I wonder if the V list files on this site are even needed. Any > > thoughts about that? > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of Jim Heckard > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:43 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [vintageHO] Super Scale & Exacta Copper HO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth their is some information, assembly and parts > > list for Super Scale on www.hoseeker.net. under Super Scale in the > > Literature (paperwork) and pictures in the Gallery section. > > > > Anyone interested in Exacta /Central Lines passenger cars made > > from copper go to HO seeker. Under Literature and pictures in the > > Gallery. Member Gerold Eckl seems to be well versed in the Exacta and > > change over to Central Lines. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18879	From: erieberk	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Copper HO

Jim, But with that Portland, Oregon address -- rather than either San Francisco or Los Gatos, CA -- you may be able to trace down when it was made by going to MR or RMC and finding out more in the ads for those years about any plating (or the lack of). We know it wasn't produced at the same time as Walter's or mine were. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Ray F W > > Just a small problem my box on the sticker on the end say Exacta > by Central Lines. I don't know what to think. More info and we will > figure it out. Inside O/B the little parts bags are stamped Central Lines. > > Jim > > > > On 4/2/2012 1:22 PM, erieberk wrote: > > > > Jim, > > > > Well, you could say that I learned something too, that Exacta may have > > sold unplated copper models, regularly. At least, it's starting to > > look like this may have been the way they were being sold at one time, > > with the additional input by Walter. While that was previously only a > > guess on my part, perhaps this was the way Exacta marketed them before > > being bought out by Central Lines. At least that would make some sense > > to what you guys have. > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray F , Denny, > > > > > > I learned something I never knew that the Exacta streamlined > > > cars were to have nickel plating over the copper body and maybe other > > > people learned there are EXCEPTIONS or maybe a company mistake that got > > > out without plating. I would never know this without these exchanges of > > > information. And the same goes with keeping all files like the v files > > > and HOseeker available to check. Now I wonder if my car is a mistake or > > > were their a lot more like it. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/1/2012 10:04 PM, erieberk@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > The pic of your Exacta car you sent last night certainly does look > > > > copperish in color -- which is a complete surprise to me, as all of > > > > mine are copper > > > > with nickle plating. I have all of the Exacta "Stainless Steel" > > > > Streamliner > > > > cars (kits) except for the Budd Pullman Sleeper (16 Duplex Roomette, 4 > > > > Bedroom), and all but one is nickle plated copper. My Budd 22 > > > > Passenger Sleeper > > > > is nickle plated zinc. > > > > > > > > The Central Lines Manufacturing Co./ Exacta catalog describes > > these cars > > > > as: > > > > "The Exacta new 'Stainless Steel' are molded of copper, then nickle > > > > plated > > > > to give the stainless steel appearance of the prototype." There > > are full > > > > (not full size) photographs very clearly showing built up versions of > > > > most of > > > > the Budd series cars, which depict them unmistakenly as having a > > > > silver-color metal finish. > > > > > > > > Ma Webster's 1950 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog describes these > > > > Exacta > > > > cars as: > > > > "CENTRAL LINES (under Streamline Passenger Cars HO -- Manufacturers' > > > > Construction Materials - pg 53) -- > > > > Nickle plated moulded copper sides and ends: wood and die cast parts." > > > > > > > > Perhaps your cars were manufactured during a slightly different time > > > > frame. > > > > Maybe earlier production Exacta did not come plated, but I have > > > > nothing on > > > > that to verify it. Some MR ads may show this, before 1950. > > > > > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18880	From: takefive247	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Varney v Mantua

Did Varney produce a refer cars pre 1950 with Gerber products and Raths Black Hawk Ham with the same Rd. # as Mantua? Did Varney or Mantua ever have all metal box cars? Not card stock sides glued to metal Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18881	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired

Hi All,  Unexpectedly came across these new boxed Crescent stamped brass E7 A & B units on eBay during the past few days and as luck would have it, bid just enough to be the successful bidder at an OK price, likely because the side of the A unit's nose exhibits some prior shipping damage. (If eBay photo does not appear above, it was item # 120886124428)   Will likely leave these unassembled for now, but will begin the search for suitable Crescent power and trailing trucks. I will have to enter a standing eBay search for Crescent now!   For those who want to see a very nice assembled and painted Crescent Models E7-A unit in the New York Central lightning stripe scheme, see Jim H's E7-A unit here: http://tinyurl.com/72yy9h5 (click "next" to see the Crescent power truck.   For those interested in the illustrated assembly instructions, Jim H. also provided us with them at HOSeeker, three pages beginning here: http://hoseeker.org/crescent/crescentemc2800pass.jpg   Looks like I am beginning to "specialze" in E7's as besides a flock of hobbytown of Boston E7 A and B units with DC 91 power and one powered by Lindsay, and the Walthers/hobbytown unpowered B units, I also have a sand cast aluminum Cambron E-7A body casting.  Will be interesting to compare how each manufacturer interpreted the prototype, side by side.  Looking forward to their arrival!  W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18882	From: Lon	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Temco tank cars

Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18883	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Hi, Do you have a Mantua Rath's Blackhawk Ham car? I have a Varney kit from 1946 (Got it new, unassembled, and had a packing slip dated 1946), of Rath's Blackhawk Ham. Actually also have another Rath's car I believe is Varney. Will have to dig the both of them up to check roadnumbers. If you have a Rath's car by Mantua, we can compare road numbers. Varney did have metal cars for a while, except the floor was wood. Similar construction to Athearn metal cars, except that the Varneys were not quite as tall. I have an MKT, EJ&E, UP, and a Frisco. Have to check, but the Frisco one may have a die cast metal floor. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 4/3/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: From: takefive247 <townline58@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney v Mantua To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 4:34 PM   Did Varney produce a refer cars pre 1950 with Gerber products and Raths Black Hawk Ham with the same Rd. # as Mantua? Did Varney or Mantua ever have all metal box cars? Not card stock sides glued to metal Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18884	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

Hi, Are you sure they do not say 'Pemco'? The 'P" in their logo could be mistaken for  a 'T', depending how large it is. Here's a good page for Pemco: http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/index.html Check the 40' Tank Car link to the left, and see if you see yours. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon <wlon17@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Temco tank cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 11:04 PM   Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18885	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed

All, A trip to the hobby shop today, and I bought a Suncoast Models #3020 icing platform extention. This kit is mostly stripwood, and the box picture is not so great, by today's standards. Anyway, bought this new, sealed. New-old stock. The kicker is that there is a typed sheet inside the box, that says instructions are NOT included with this kit, to refer to the instructions that came with the main icing platform kit to which this extends. Also states to write to Suncoast Models for a set of instructions. Well, writing to Suncoast Models simply won't happen (Unless someone here has a time machine I can borrow!), and although I am on good terms with the hobby shop owner, I don't want him to unseal the main icing platform kit to copy the instructions, if he does not need to. Went on hoseeker.net and looked there. Could not find anything. Anyone have a source for instructions? Could some kind soul with a copy of the instructions scan them for me, and email me them? If someone can scan a copy, also sending the scan to hoseeker might be a good idea. Thanks in advance! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18886	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired

This is wonderful to see. And now I know who made that nose-less E6a body I got ages ago from a swap meet. I seem to be specializing in winning classic Doodelbugs on eBay. Two of them in the last few days alone. Mike Bauers On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:05 PM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > > > Hi All, > Unexpectedly came across these new boxed Crescent stamped brass E7 A & B units on eBay during the past few days and as luck would have it, bid just enough to be the successful bidder at an OK price, likely because the side of the A unit's nose exhibits some prior shipping damage. > > (If eBay photo does not appear above, it was item # 120886124428) > > Will likely leave these unassembled for now, but will begin the search for suitable Crescent power and trailing trucks. I will have to enter a standing eBay search for Crescent now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18887	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

On 4/3/2012 11:04 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > What are they made of? I remember some plastic cars in the 60's marked "Tempo" (WITH A "P") that I believe were sold by AHM. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18888	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

I thought I remembered “Tempco”, but I have yet to find an example this morning.  Thinking these were sold under the AHM/IHC name.  But again, I have can not verify that, yet   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lon Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 12:04 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Temco tank cars     Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18889	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired

Tell us about your doodlebugs.  Are they old Walthers? John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:27:17 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Crescent E-7 A & B acquired   This is wonderful to see. And now I know who made that nose-less E6a body I got ages ago from a swap meet. I seem to be specializing in winning classic Doodelbugs on eBay. Two of them in the last few days alone. Mike Bauers On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:05 PM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > > > Hi All, > Unexpectedly came across these new boxed Crescent stamped brass E7 A & B units on eBay during the past few days and as luck would have it, bid just enough to be the successful bidder at an OK price, likely because the side of the A unit's nose exhibits some prior shipping damage. > > (If eBay photo does not appear above, it was item # 120886124428) > > Will likely leave these unassembled for now, but will begin the search for suitable Crescent power and trailing trucks. I will have to enter a standing eBay search for Crescent now!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18890	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed

Hi Steve, I do believe writing them may be worthwhile.  This kit is still in production.  They make it in both O scale as well as HO.  I could not find an address for it, but I bet someone at Valley Model Trains or Walthers can tell you.  They still sell both the icing station as well as the extension, which seems to be the one you have. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 23:01:39 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed   All, A trip to the hobby shop today, and I bought a Suncoast Models #3020 icing platform extention. This kit is mostly stripwood, and the box picture is not so great, by today's standards. Anyway, bought this new, sealed. New-old stock. The kicker is that there is a typed sheet inside the box, that says instructions are NOT included with this kit, to refer to the instructions that came with the main icing platform kit to which this extends. Also states to write to Suncoast Models for a set of instructions. Well, writing to Suncoast Models simply won't happen (Unless someone here has a time machine I can borrow!), and although I am on good terms with the hobby shop owner, I don't want him to unseal the main icing platform kit to copy the instructions, if he does not need to. Went on hoseeker.net and looked there. Could not find anything. Anyone have a source for instructions? Could some kind soul with a copy of the instructions scan them for me, and email me them? If someone can scan a copy, also sending the scan to hoseeker might be a good idea. Thanks in advance! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18891	From: takefive247	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Steve, Yes I have a Rath's Ham car. It looks like a Mantua and came in a Mantua box and has Rd. number 208. I have a C&NW Route of the 400 and the streamliner. It's metal with a wood body. Did Varney and Atherin use the same RD numbers? Do yo know what years thery were made? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Do you have a Mantua Rath's Blackhawk Ham car? I have a Varney kit from 1946 (Got it new, unassembled, and had a packing slip dated 1946), of Rath's Blackhawk Ham. > > Actually also have another Rath's car I believe is Varney. Will have to dig the both of them up to check roadnumbers. If you have a Rath's car by Mantua, we can compare road numbers. > > Varney did have metal cars for a while, except the floor was wood. Similar construction to Athearn metal cars, except that the Varneys were not quite as tall. I have an MKT, EJ&E, UP, and a Frisco. Have to check, but the Frisco one may have a die cast metal floor. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney v Mantua > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 4:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Did Varney produce a refer cars pre 1950 with Gerber products and Raths Black Hawk Ham with the same Rd. # as Mantua? Did Varney or Mantua ever have all metal box cars? Not card stock sides glued to metal > > > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18892	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed

Hi Steve, Suncoast is now owned by JV Models. http://www.jvmodels.biz/ I bet you can contact them that way. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 23:01:39 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Suncoast Models Icing Platform Instructions Needed   All, A trip to the hobby shop today, and I bought a Suncoast Models #3020 icing platform extention. This kit is mostly stripwood, and the box picture is not so great, by today's standards. Anyway, bought this new, sealed. New-old stock. The kicker is that there is a typed sheet inside the box, that says instructions are NOT included with this kit, to refer to the instructions that came with the main icing platform kit to which this extends. Also states to write to Suncoast Models for a set of instructions. Well, writing to Suncoast Models simply won't happen (Unless someone here has a time machine I can borrow!), and although I am on good terms with the hobby shop owner, I don't want him to unseal the main icing platform kit to copy the instructions, if he does not need to. Went on hoseeker.net and looked there. Could not find anything. Anyone have a source for instructions? Could some kind soul with a copy of the instructions scan them for me, and email me them? If someone can scan a copy, also sending the scan to hoseeker might be a good idea. Thanks in advance! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18893	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Bill, Varney never produced a metal C&NW 'Route of the 400's' box car, so Athearn could never have issued road numbers duplicating Varney,for that road name in their metal box cars. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18894	From: Nelson	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

Tempo was the name that Mehano went under up until sometime in the 90's. Some were just marked 'Izola' for the city in former Yugoslavia, probably where they were made. AHM/IHC (in particular), ATT, Pemco, Life-Like and Tyco/Mantua have all imported their products over the years. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/3/2012 11:04 PM, Lon wrote: > > Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > > What are they made of? I remember some plastic cars in the 60's marked > "Tempo" (WITH A "P") that I believe were sold by AHM. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18895	From: takefive247	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Did Athearn produce a metal C&NW 'Route of the 400's' box car #65146? I have a car with Rd number 65146 I can't find listed anywhere so far. Will have to get photo and post it. Bill l --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Bill, > > Varney never produced a metal C&NW 'Route of the 400's' box car, so Athearn > could never have issued road numbers duplicating Varney,for that road name > in their metal box cars. > > Ray F.W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18896	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Mystery coupler

At least a mystery to me. Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? thanks,  Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18897	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Looks like Baker. John Allen took the springs out. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > At least a mystery to me. > > Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18898	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Looks like Baker couplers or the Japanese knock-off of the Baker, the Kupeeze coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:16:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler At least a mystery to me. Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? thanks,  Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18899	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Yeah, I was thinking it may be a be a Baker. But I didn’t think their loop was shaped like that. I do know someone made a coupler very similar to the Baker with a very Baker – like hook and the flat metal loop. But I can’t recall the name….   Then again I could be all wet about the shape of the Baker loop and these are Bakers. Or, to put it bluntly, why did I even bother to type this?   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of trainsnwrcs Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 4:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery coupler     Looks like Baker. John Allen took the springs out. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > At least a mystery to me. > > Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > thanks, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18900	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired

Most of them are the Walthers C&NW. They range from the very oldest to some of the newest old style kits, some very nicely built with the right era power trucks, and some carcasses that need recovery. I have 3-4 kits and another one of the later run kits is on the way to me. I've got 8-10 of those assorted old Walthers Gas-Electrics by now. For some reason I've never been able to win a Walthers GM&O Gas Electric. I might go the route of the last lines of this post, for that. The most recent find seems to be some sort of combine based kit-bash built in the 50's. I don't have it yet and don't know if the sides are paper/card or stamped metal. The ends seem to be scratch built in wood. The roof is some sort of perhaps standard wood clerestory stock with a radiator bulge near the front end. I think I can recover her with a bit of wood putty, fresh paint, the MicroMark rivet decals, and improved radiator/exhaust details.   I'll attach an image to this. I got a brass one. An obscure EMC from a small Eastern RR. It was painted by someone in flat Floquil and I'm looking forward to strip-blasting her with an air-eraser and gloss ScaleCoat her. Ages ago I got an interesting kit bash based on a MDC Pullman Palace combine. It needs a little touch up and a drive. It's streamlined pilot is a cut-off section of AHM passenger car roof. It needs a touch of filler putty in a few spots of the assembly. Then there is my first one built from an AHM Soo Line 60 footer or so coach. It still has a clunky C-Liner drive in her. That's gonna get repowered. And there are one or two of the new Walthers EMC doodlebugs, now out of production for a few years and 2-3 of the Bachmann's first generation runs. But lets not count those newer ones. Cross your fingers for moment, stare at it, then relax, I intend to order a laser cutter in the next 3-4 weeks and work out some re-engineered versions of the Paul Moore Gassers this fall. This Trainfest I ran into lots of detail article shots and related folio sheets of the several and quite varied C&NW Gas Electrics. Laser cut quality Gas Electric's are in my future. While I do like these sorts of units, I've also realized that they are easier to take to visit and operate on club layouts. I want DCC-sound packages and complete LED lighting in some of them. Mike Bauers On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:22 AM, john.allyn@... wrote: Tell us about your doodlebugs.  Are they old Walthers? John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18901	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Attachments : Yeah, that’s what I was thinking of; the Yokohama Mama coupler.   I thought that the Baker loop was pretty much triangular in shape and that it pivoted just like the dummy’s of the time of a Kadee of today.   John Hagen.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john.allyn@... Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 4:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   Looks like Baker couplers or the Japanese knock-off of the Baker, the Kupeeze coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:16:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler At least a mystery to me.   Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ???   thanks,  Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18902	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

If I remember correctly, which I may or may not, wasn't the difference between a Baker and Kupeeze mostly in if the loop was to the left or right? It was something like that... Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 4:33 PM Looks like Baker couplers or the Japanese knock-off of the Baker, the Kupeeze coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:16:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler At least a mystery to me. Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? thanks,  Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18903	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Pacific Pike Freight cars available

If anyone is interested in collecting the Pacific Pike freight cars please let me know.  A local hobby shop get a few in and has them for sale at what seems to be a reasonable price.  These seem to be similar to the old Athearn metal sided cars and the printing seems very good.   Anyway if your interested, contact me off line and I will pass on the info to anyone who is interested.  I took a couple of images of the box with my old cell camera but so good they ain't. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18904	From: Glenn	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Attachments : that is correct—and even as a G&D Operator I cannot remember which—just that the Japanese was mirror image of the Baker.  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   If I remember correctly, which I may or may not, wasn't the difference between a Baker and Kupeeze mostly in if the loop was to the left or right? It was something like that... Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 4:33 PM Looks like Baker couplers or the Japanese knock-off of the Baker, the Kupeeze coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:16:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler At least a mystery to me.   Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ???   thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18905	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Walthers progress

Attachments : IMG_7852.JPG IMG_7849.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Walthers progress Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 19:33:22 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: I wasn't going to put stanchions on now because of shaky hand. Also I wish previous owner had drilled holes in a straighter line or better yet not drilled at all. First picture is using normal settings. Second picture is using a Macro setting and you can see every scratch. After all handrail, steps and stanchions are on I will fine sand. Also have to file down window frames. Not to bad if you saw condition when I got it. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18906	From: Larry Smith	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Mystery coupler

Looks like Baker couplers, very similar to the old Mantua couplers Larry Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18907	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Crescent E-7 A & B acquired

Complete with a Mantua passenger coupler.  Wow. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:49:22 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Crescent E-7 A & B acquired Most of them are the Walthers C&NW. They range from the very oldest to some of the newest old style kits, some very nicely built with the right era power trucks, and some carcasses that need recovery. I have 3-4 kits and another one of the later run kits is on the way to me. I've got 8-10 of those assorted old Walthers Gas-Electrics by now. For some reason I've never been able to win a Walthers GM&O Gas Electric. I might go the route of the last lines of this post, for that. The most recent find seems to be some sort of combine based kit-bash built in the 50's. I don't have it yet and don't know if the sides are paper/card or stamped metal. The ends seem to be scratch built in wood. The roof is some sort of perhaps standard wood clerestory stock with a radiator bulge near the front end. I think I can recover her with a bit of wood putty, fresh paint, the MicroMark rivet decals, and improved radiator/exhaust details.   I'll attach an image to this. I got a brass one. An obscure EMC from a small Eastern RR. It was painted by someone in flat Floquil and I'm looking forward to strip-blasting her with an air-eraser and gloss ScaleCoat her. Ages ago I got an interesting kit bash based on a MDC Pullman Palace combine. It needs a little touch up and a drive. It's streamlined pilot is a cut-off section of AHM passenger car roof. It needs a touch of filler putty in a few spots of the assembly. Then there is my first one built from an AHM Soo Line 60 footer or so coach. It still has a clunky C-Liner drive in her. That's gonna get repowered. And there are one or two of the new Walthers EMC doodlebugs, now out of production for a few years and 2-3 of the Bachmann's first generation runs. But lets not count those newer ones. Cross your fingers for moment, stare at it, then relax, I intend to order a laser cutter in the next 3-4 weeks and work out some re-engineered versions of the Paul Moore Gassers this fall. This Trainfest I ran into lots of detail article shots and related folio sheets of the several and quite varied C&NW Gas Electrics. Laser cut quality Gas Electric's are in my future. While I do like these sorts of units, I've also realized that they are easier to take to visit and operate on club layouts. I want DCC-sound packages and complete LED lighting in some of them. Mike Bauers On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:22 AM, john.allyn@... wrote: Tell us about your doodlebugs.  Are they old Walthers? John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18908	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

If I remember correctly, the Kupeeze came with International Models freight cars -- both brass and composite diecast -- imported in the late 40's or early 50's.  I have a diecast + wood 36' stock car that I'm currently trying to resurrect.  The box is marked "Made in Japan" not "Made in Occupied Japan" so it's probably post 1950.  The previous owner had ditched the Kupeeze for Mantuas and sold it on E Bay under the "Brass Imports" for whatever reason.  Two other buyers had rejected it by the time I second chanced it for 99 cents.  Probably too much even then.  I'll post a photo when I get through with it. John B. Allyn From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 5:20:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler If I remember correctly, which I may or may not, wasn't the difference between a Baker and Kupeeze mostly in if the loop was to the left or right? It was something like that... Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 4:33 PM Looks like Baker couplers or the Japanese knock-off of the Baker, the Kupeeze coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:16:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler At least a mystery to me. Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? thanks,  Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18909	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Boy....all these years I never thought that. VERY similar to Fleischmann and Maerklin.....all of which have a vertical face, while Mantuas have a horizontal face. Dave > > Looks like Baker couplers, very similar to the old Mantua couplers > > Larry Smith >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18910	From: Lon	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

Hi Steve,Don,Chuck and Nelson, I looked at the plastic tank cars again with good light and a high power magnifier and what it says is Tempo and Yugoslavia. One is a Freon car and the other Gulf. They both have a nice platform around the dome and handrails and ladders. They are fitted with a curved metal weight that fits inside the lower part of the tank. I got them without trucks but suspect they had talgo trucks. Does any of this sound familiar? Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Are you sure they do not say 'Pemco'? The 'P" in their logo could be mistaken for  a 'T', depending how large it is. > > Here's a good page for Pemco: > > http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/index.html > > Check the 40' Tank Car link to the left, and see if you see yours. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: > > From: Lon <wlon17@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Temco tank cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 11:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18911	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

Hi, I do have a couple Tempo tankcars myself, now that I think about it. Mine have talgo trucks. I forget the original design, but I have installed Kadee talgo trucks on them. I want to say that they had Rivarossi-ish trucks with a metal hairspring that closed the horn-hook coupler. I could be very mistaken though, and even if that was what mine had, no guarantees that those were the original trucks either. As I got 'em on eBay as part of a larger lot, who knows what was original. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon <wlon17@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Temco tank cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 8:29 PM   Hi Steve,Don,Chuck and Nelson, I looked at the plastic tank cars again with good light and a high power magnifier and what it says is Tempo and Yugoslavia. One is a Freon car and the other Gulf. They both have a nice platform around the dome and handrails and ladders. They are fitted with a curved metal weight that fits inside the lower part of the tank. I got them without trucks but suspect they had talgo trucks. Does any of this sound familiar? Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Are you sure they do not say 'Pemco'? The 'P" in their logo could be mistaken for  a 'T', depending how large it is. > > Here's a good page for Pemco: > > http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/index.html > > Check the 40' Tank Car link to the left, and see if you see yours. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: > > From: Lon <wlon17@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Temco tank cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 11:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18912	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Hi, My 1946 Varney reefer also had road number 208. I would like to make the observation that my 1946 kit (Which I did get as an unassembled kit), has somewhat glossy sides, and embossed wood slats, and raised door hardware, which is generally only barely visible. My other Varney reefer, I believe is prewar. Has flatter finish (Could just be from age, too), and is all printed sides with no raised areas or embossings. Have not found this car yet this evening. I probably hid it from myself, as I never bothered to replace the metal high center trucks (Complete with brass wheels and metal axles), that squeaked very badly when the car ran. Should fix that when I find the car. I'll keep you posted on the roadnumber of that car when I find it. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: From: takefive247 <townline58@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney v Mantua To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 8:51 AM   Steve, Yes I have a Rath's Ham car. It looks like a Mantua and came in a Mantua box and has Rd. number 208. I have a C&NW Route of the 400 and the streamliner. It's metal with a wood body. Did Varney and Atherin use the same RD numbers? Do yo know what years thery were made? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Do you have a Mantua Rath's Blackhawk Ham car? I have a Varney kit from 1946 (Got it new, unassembled, and had a packing slip dated 1946), of Rath's Blackhawk Ham. > > Actually also have another Rath's car I believe is Varney. Will have to dig the both of them up to check roadnumbers. If you have a Rath's car by Mantua, we can compare road numbers. > > Varney did have metal cars for a while, except the floor was wood. Similar construction to Athearn metal cars, except that the Varneys were not quite as tall. I have an MKT, EJ&E, UP, and a Frisco. Have to check, but the Frisco one may have a die cast metal floor. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney v Mantua > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 4:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Did Varney produce a refer cars pre 1950 with Gerber products and Raths Black Hawk Ham with the same Rd. # as Mantua? Did Varney or Mantua ever have all metal box cars? Not card stock sides glued to metal > > > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18913	From: Nelson	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Temco tank cars

Steve, You're right; that frustrating spring was a Rivarossi design, but they ended up on all AHM rolling stock at some point whether it was made by RR, Mehano, Liliput, or Roco. Lon, I think I found your freon tanker. http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id49.html I think these were only issued in the 60's, and were better detailed than most of their other offerings. I have the one marked for Ethyl Corp. It is marked "Tempo Yugoslavia," but had Rivarossi trucks with metal wheels (they seemed to mix a lot of components like that) I"m amazed at how well it rolls... it keeps trying to sneak off the desk. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I do have a couple Tempo tankcars myself, now that I think about it. Mine have talgo trucks. I forget the original design, but I have installed Kadee talgo trucks on them. > > I want to say that they had Rivarossi-ish trucks with a metal hairspring that closed the horn-hook coupler. I could be very mistaken though, and even if that was what mine had, no guarantees that those were the original trucks either. As I got 'em on eBay as part of a larger lot, who knows what was original. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 4/4/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: > > From: Lon <wlon17@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Temco tank cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 8:29 PM > > > > > > > Hi Steve,Don,Chuck and Nelson, I looked at the plastic tank cars again with good light and a high power magnifier and what it says is Tempo and Yugoslavia. One is a Freon car and the other Gulf. They both have a nice platform around the dome and handrails and ladders. They are fitted with a curved metal weight that fits inside the lower part of the tank. I got them without trucks but suspect they had talgo trucks. Does any of this sound familiar? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18914	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tempo tank cars

Hi again,  I should not post with out having the cars right in front of me. One is a Dupont Freon car and the other is a Mobil car. Does anyone have any information about Tempo products made in Yugoslavia?  Thanks.  Lon Walker From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Temco tank cars   Hi, I do have a couple Tempo tankcars myself, now that I think about it. Mine have talgo trucks. I forget the original design, but I have installed Kadee talgo trucks on them. I want to say that they had Rivarossi-ish trucks with a metal hairspring that closed the horn-hook coupler. I could be very mistaken though, and even if that was what mine had, no guarantees that those were the original trucks either. As I got 'em on eBay as part of a larger lot, who knows what was original. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon <wlon17@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Temco tank cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 8:29 PM   Hi Steve,Don,Chuck and Nelson, I looked at the plastic tank cars again with good light and a high power magnifier and what it says is Tempo and Yugoslavia. One is a Freon car and the other Gulf. They both have a nice platform around the dome and handrails and ladders. They are fitted with a curved metal weight that fits inside the lower part of the tank. I got them without trucks but suspect they had talgo trucks. Does any of this sound familiar? Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Are you sure they do not say 'Pemco'? The 'P" in their logo could be mistaken for  a 'T', depending how large it is. > > Here's a good page for Pemco: > > http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/index.html > > Check the 40' Tank Car link to the left, and see if you see yours. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: > > From: Lon <wlon17@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Temco tank cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 11:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I have two tank cars with the word Temco on the bottom of the frame. Can anyone tell me about the company and some information on the products they made. Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18915	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tempo tank cars

Thanks Nelson,  That is a nice site and there is the Mobil car also.   Lon Walker From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 9:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Temco tank cars   Steve, You're right; that frustrating spring was a Rivarossi design, but they ended up on all AHM rolling stock at some point whether it was made by RR, Mehano, Liliput, or Roco. Lon, I think I found your freon tanker. http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id49.html I think these were only issued in the 60's, and were better detailed than most of their other offerings. I have the one marked for Ethyl Corp. It is marked "Tempo Yugoslavia," but had Rivarossi trucks with metal wheels (they seemed to mix a lot of components like that) I"m amazed at how well it rolls... it keeps trying to sneak off the desk. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I do have a couple Tempo tankcars myself, now that I think about it. Mine have talgo trucks. I forget the original design, but I have installed Kadee talgo trucks on them. > > I want to say that they had Rivarossi-ish trucks with a metal hairspring that closed the horn-hook coupler. I could be very mistaken though, and even if that was what mine had, no guarantees that those were the original trucks either. As I got 'em on eBay as part of a larger lot, who knows what was original. > > Thanks > Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 4/4/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: > > From: Lon <wlon17@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Temco tank cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 8:29 PM > > > > > > > Hi Steve,Don,Chuck and Nelson, I looked at the plastic tank cars again with good light and a high power magnifier and what it says is Tempo and Yugoslavia. One is a Freon car and the other Gulf. They both have a nice platform around the dome and handrails and ladders. They are fitted with a curved metal weight that fits inside the lower part of the tank. I got them without trucks but suspect they had talgo trucks. Does any of this sound familiar? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18916	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Bill, Yes, Athearn did produce a metal C&NW 'Route of the 400's' boxcar, reporting number -- 65146 (I have it in kit form). This same car was also offered by G.F. Menzies as a reissue of this Athearn car, as I reported in the Greenberg's Guide to Athearn Trains book. Other known Athearn metal C&NW boxcars were 65140, 65149, 65160 and 66098. BTW, Varney produced cardboard side 50' C&NW 'Route of the '400's' boxcars as # 51998 (pre-War) and both #'s 51996 and 51998 (post-War). Ray F. Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18917	From: Garry Spear	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Ray, I have a confirmed sighting (meaning I have held the car in my hand) of CNW 65609. Garrett (Garry) Spear. On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 6:21 AM, <erieberk@...> wrote:   Bill, Yes, Athearn did produce a metal C&NW 'Route of the 400's' boxcar, reporting number -- 65146 (I have it in kit form). This same car was also offered by G.F. Menzies as a reissue of this Athearn car, as I reported in the Greenberg's Guide to Athearn Trains book. Other known Athearn metal C&NW boxcars were 65140, 65149, 65160 and 66098. BTW, Varney produced cardboard side 50' C&NW 'Route of the '400's' boxcars as # 51998 (pre-War) and both #'s 51996 and 51998 (post-War). Ray F. Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18918	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting piece on eBay

Regarding the armored engine explosion:  I think the plating on the live engine was merely a plywood (or maybe metal) shell added by the movie crew.  A convincing job, but such a locomotive would be of no use after the war and would have been "de-streamlined" and put back to work.  France was very short of railway equipment due to the Allies bombing everything. In the actual bombing you can sort of make out cribbing under the shell - no locomotive underneath.  The tanks on the string of flatcars also seem to be props, mostly concealed by cammo nets. The real tanks seen in the film are French army ex-US M-24 Chafee light tanks, stand ins for German Panzer Mark IVs. Good movie though - one of the best war pictures ever.   Richard.     -----Original Message----- From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 2:23 pm Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Interesting piece on eBay You can probably get it on a dvd on eBay for what a rental will cost or a bit more. I found several one day while looking for some movies and was surprised how cheap it was.   Supposedly the scene where they “bombed” the armored steamer wasn’t planned. The engines was discovered in a shed they had rented. Apparently no one was aware of it. So the movie people found it one day and came with the bombing scene it the next day or two before any of the steam preservationists could find out. That is probably what they got in trouble for. The other stock they damaged or totaled was going to the scrappers anyway.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hooligan Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:55 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Interesting piece on e Bay     That is a great WWII movie , the wreck sequences are awesome . The movie people got yelled at really bad for wrecking those steamers . The Bombing scene in the marshalling yards is epic . Not too bad for 1964 ? Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > This is off-topic but still an very neat HO steam loco. It's a German model > of a German prototype from WWII era. But the detail borders on fantastic! I > know that Overland and Precision Scale among others have done some truly > nice work but this is the best I've seen in HO. The level of detail > appro aches Koh's and Company's O scale stuff. > > > > It has 5 - 6 good quality photos, including an underside view, and uses eBay > magnifying system so you can get a decent look at it. > > > > Take a few minutes and check it out, especially the area of the drivers and > frame. > > > > Item #200734416418 > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18919	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Fwd: one handrail closer

Attachments : IMG_7866.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: one handrail closer Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 18:56:59 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Got one side of long handrail done today. A little closer to the end but a lot to do yet. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18920	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: one handrail closer [1 Attachment]

Jim, Every time you post progress pictures of this locomotive, I end up needing to place a cloth over my laptop keyboard - I end up drooling! The locomotive looks stunning so far. I hope you plan to leave it in its natural color! It would be so beautiful if you did. I would imagine a sealer or finish of some kind would hide the "scratches" as was shown in macro mode, as well as protect the bright bronze. Otherwise, those "scratches", do lend a certain air of character to the model. Very good work! Will be a wonderful piece when done. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: one handrail closer [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 6:05 PM   -------- Original Message -------- Subject: one handrail closer Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 18:56:59 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Got one side of long handrail done today. A little closer to the end but a lot to do yet. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18921	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Garrett, Yes, the Athearn metal C&NW 65609 that you're confirming as held in your hand does indeed exist, thanks -- I have it in my collection. I wrote those additional Athearn CNW numbers yesterday as taken from Dallas' (Mallerich) Greenberg Athearn Guide quickly looking them up in referring to them. Instead, I should have referred to my own 'Have' list for this manufacturer. I added this one to my collection a couple of years after the book was published, which is why it wasn't included. I suspect the possibility exists that there may be other road numbers for Athearn's metal CNW boxcar, only because there are road names having up to 16 different road numbers, although without confirmation of any new ones up until now this possibility is getting slimmer. There are at least a dozen other 40' AAR boxcar roadnames that have only six or fewer road numbers. At the time the Athearn Guide was being put together, Dallas asked all of the contributors for the numbers of all cars in their collections and the listings only reflect was was amassed by us all up to that time. There are a fair number of other car sides of many roadnames I've added to my collection since then that were bought too late to be included in the book.. I'm still missing CNW 65140 and 65140, though; I have only four C&NW numbers. A friend and fellow contributor to the book, Frank (Franklin) Brua lists one and Bill Stevens lists two of the CNW numbers, but each of these guys also may have more, just as I have more than is credited for. Dallas only credited the first guy submitting a car side number, so whoever was first had their name connected to the particular car number -- which was fine, as it would serve no purpose to list everyone having a particular car. This was only to establish which car side numbers exist. As many of us were members of Dave Spanagel's HO SC&H SIG, and regular train meet attendee's as well, a great benefit was that I got to know many noteable collectors of the time, like George Horan, Dave Doiron and Roy Scott and others, to name a few, even being invited over to some of their homes. We used to set up regular meetings at some of the larger train meets (like Allentown, PA) and have long chats on the more obscure facts on rare manufacturer's products, comparing notes. Maybe some day there will be a revised Athearn Guide edition, either by Mallerich or someone else showing all the additional car side numbers found since 1987. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18922	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: one handrail closer [1 Attachment]

Nice going Jim -- it's looking better all the time. There will always be time to finish it later though, after you get back to par. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18923	From: Graeme	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

In message <9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3@...>, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> writes >Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of the European makers, though. -- Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18924	From: Jay	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: HH600 Fwd: one handrail closer

Good to see it coming along nicely, Jim. The slightly thicker handrail wire looks appropriate and will stay looking good. For me, these restoration jobs are often a long process and sometimes just figuring out the order of work and next step to do takes me a whole session. I am often amazed at the good work progress scehdule you are able to keep up. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: one handrail closer > Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 18:56:59 -0400 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: > > > > Got one side of long handrail done today. A little closer to > the end but a lot to do yet. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18925	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. What strange ones they are. Mike Bauers On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > In message <9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3@...>, Mike Bauers > <mwbauers55@...> writes > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > the European makers, though. > > -- > Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18926	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. What strange ones they are. Mike Bauers On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > In message <9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3@...>, Mike Bauers > <mwbauers55@...> writes > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > the European makers, though. > > -- > Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18927	From: Glenn	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

I think that the Kupeze was sort of a Japanese universal coupler—how and why it came out as a mirror image of the Baker, I don’t know.  Some of us used to call it  “Rekab”—Baker backwards.  gj   From: ckinzer@... Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:59 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler     The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. What strange ones they are. Mike Bauers On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > In message <mailto:9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3%40wi.rr.com>, Mike Bauers > <mailto:mwbauers55%40wi.rr.com> writes > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > the European makers, though. > > -- > Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18928	From: Glenn	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

John was quite adept at hiding the Baker couplers—just browsed tghru the book and almost anywhere that the end of a car or loco shows, the coupler is in shadow, or a person is in front of it.  gj   From: ckinzer@... Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:59 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler     The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. What strange ones they are. Mike Bauers On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > In message <mailto:9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3%40wi.rr.com>, Mike Bauers > <mailto:mwbauers55%40wi.rr.com> writes > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > the European makers, though. > > -- > Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18929	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

I suspect that it was "backwards" to avoid a possible patent claim.  That is, assuming that Baker had a patent on its coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 1:28:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   I think that the Kupeze was sort of a Japanese universal coupler—how and why it came out as a mirror image of the Baker, I don’t know.  Some of us used to call it  “Rekab”—Baker backwards.  gj   From: ckinzer@... Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:59 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler     The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. What strange ones they are. Mike Bauers On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > In message <mailto:9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3%40wi.rr.com>, Mike Bauers > <mailto:mwbauers55%40wi.rr.com> writes > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > the European makers, though. > > -- > Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18930	From: Jay	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Hi Chuck K., I can confirm that Tenshodo also manufactured that style coupler as I have a sealed bagged pair with Tenshodo printed on it, saving it for when it's needed for a restoration. Before I knew the proper names of these similar styled couplers, I would call them "grim reaper" couplers, as when held open, the vertical hook looked to me like the old reaper's scythe, lol! That term's somewhat unfair though, as they seemed to work well on the few cars I have that are equipped with them. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Bauers > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler > > > > The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week > > I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. > > What strange ones they are. > > Mike Bauers > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > > > In message <9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3@...>, Mike Bauers > > <mwbauers55@...> writes > > > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > > the European makers, though. > > > > -- > > Graeme, Scotland >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18931	From: Lon	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: HO group recommendation wanted

Hi, I am enjoying this group and will continue to do so but my interests are not confined to vintage HO. Can anyone recommend an HO group that discusses trains just a little newer than the vintage period? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18932	From: al45390	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

I've seen them on Tenshodo passenger cars too. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Bauers > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler > > > > The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week > > I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. > > What strange ones they are. > > Mike Bauers > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > > > In message <9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3@...>, Mike Bauers > > <mwbauers55@...> writes > > > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > > the European makers, though. > > > > -- > > Graeme, Scotland >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18933	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

Yeah, probably a patent issue of some kind or another. Kind of reminds me of the ill-fated Douglas DC-5 airplane. By what I remember reading a long time ago, a few of the DC-5s were built right before WWII, one crash landed in Japan during the war, and it was captured and copied. Of course, there was a lot of "western" copying in that area after WWII as well. Russian aircraft often copied American and European designs, and closer to topic, I've heard of cottage industries set up in Japan (After WWII and during American occupation), that would copy other makes from America, or even other cottage industries there. Brass trains aren't a specialty of mine, but I believe that there were American importers at the time, that could get basically the same model from various makes in Japan, which makes pinpointing a manufacturer of some early brass, very difficult. I have a brass Japanese made four wheel steeplecab locomotive with an AC motor and two powered wheels, that I suspect as being a cottage industry model. No idea who made it or when. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 4/6/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 1:42 PM   I suspect that it was "backwards" to avoid a possible patent claim.  That is, assuming that Baker had a patent on its coupler. John B. Allyn From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 1:28:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   I think that the Kupeze was sort of a Japanese universal coupler—how and why it came out as a mirror image of the Baker, I don’t know.  Some of us used to call it  “Rekab”—Baker backwards.  gj   From: ckinzer@... Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:59 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler   Besides the Baker and Kupeeze, it seems to me I've seen a very similar, but not identical, coupler on some Tenshodo freight cars from way back when.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mystery coupler     The units are on the way to me. I should have them by the end of next week I'll gently remove a couple of them to see if any makers marks are on them. I think I noticed that between the four units there are two type of related couplers. One of them has a very wide collection loop with the other parts being about identical.. What strange ones they are. Mike Bauers On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Graeme wrote: > In message <mailto:9F9CBEC8-C7E1-4533-BDD0-C204D94E71F3%40wi.rr.com>, Mike Bauers > <mailto:mwbauers55%40wi.rr.com> writes > >> Can anyone tell me what make of coupler are on these HO cars ??? > > I have seen those before. I'm sure they are not British, and are > probably European. Not Fleischmann or Marklin, I don't think. French, > JeP, perhaps? Even that does not seem correct. Almost certainly one of > the European makers, though. > > -- > Graeme, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18934	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Hi, again, I just found my other Rath's car. It, too, has road number 208. Looking at it closer, I am now not 100% sure it is Varney. Or, if it is, it may be detailed with other companies' parts. Has Varney cast metal high center trucks. Wood deck. Wooden basic center sill. Zamak (Starting to crack) type "K" air cylinder. Someone's soldered brake rigging line to either end, leading to the ends of the car. I added a while back Kadee #4 couplers. Paper printed sides. Varney stamped ladders. Match exactly ladders that I know are Varney. Printed sides are flat finish, no embossings. All detail printed on. Foil embossed dreadnought ends. Varney brakewheel piece. Varney brass roof braces. Had at one point one tennite ice hatch. All four hatches are scratchbuilt by me now. Roofwalk is a replacement - I also did this. Was fairly ratty when I got it, is respectable now. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/4/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: From: takefive247 <townline58@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney v Mantua To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 8:51 AM   Steve, Yes I have a Rath's Ham car. It looks like a Mantua and came in a Mantua box and has Rd. number 208. I have a C&NW Route of the 400 and the streamliner. It's metal with a wood body. Did Varney and Atherin use the same RD numbers? Do yo know what years thery were made? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Do you have a Mantua Rath's Blackhawk Ham car? I have a Varney kit from 1946 (Got it new, unassembled, and had a packing slip dated 1946), of Rath's Blackhawk Ham. > > Actually also have another Rath's car I believe is Varney. Will have to dig the both of them up to check roadnumbers. If you have a Rath's car by Mantua, we can compare road numbers. > > Varney did have metal cars for a while, except the floor was wood. Similar construction to Athearn metal cars, except that the Varneys were not quite as tall. I have an MKT, EJ&E, UP, and a Frisco. Have to check, but the Frisco one may have a die cast metal floor. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, takefive247 <townline58@...> wrote: > > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney v Mantua > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 4:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Did Varney produce a refer cars pre 1950 with Gerber products and Raths Black Hawk Ham with the same Rd. # as Mantua? Did Varney or Mantua ever have all metal box cars? Not card stock sides glued to metal > > > > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18935	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Steve, As far as I'm aware, Varney didn't use multiple car side numbers on their cardboard side reefers (or boxcars). The Varney pre-War and post-War R-13 Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer used the car side number, 200, so your Rath's 208 sides appear to be from another manufacturer. Besides Varney's embossed sides though, they did produce non-embossed cardstock sides during the War, as the "Main Line" series, but the "Main Line" Black Hawk Ham reefer was also numbered 200. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18936	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler

The Japanese line of IMP (International Model Products) passenger and freight cars, all coming with Kupeeze couplers, were made for this producer by Tenshodo. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18937	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Ray, That seems odd, as I do have a Varney postwar card side Rath's reefer, road number 208. I know it is a Varney, as I purchased it as new-old stock and assembled it myself. No mistaking that. There was even a packing slip inside dated 1946 from Varney! Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 4/7/12, erieberk@... <erieberk@...> wrote: From: erieberk@... <erieberk@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney v Mantua To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 2:58 PM   Steve, As far as I'm aware, Varney didn't use multiple car side numbers on their cardboard side reefers (or boxcars). The Varney pre-War and post-War R-13 Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer used the car side number, 200, so your Rath's 208 sides appear to be from another manufacturer. Besides Varney's embossed sides though, they did produce non-embossed cardstock sides during the War, as the "Main Line" series, but the "Main Line" Black Hawk Ham reefer was also numbered 200. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18938	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Varney v Mantua

Steve, Thanks for bringing that to my attention. This would have to be an occasion when Varney did produce more than one car side number for these types of sides, which up until now have been shown only to have one number for any of them. Always something new and unexpected with these early manufacturers. -- good to know. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18939	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Red Ball Raths Raths #208

Steve, Ray W...as usual, I'm out of phase...have been following various threads while chained to microscope being a bottleneck for mining EIS...(gotta get a life)....but it pays for the hobby.   I have a Raths Blackhawk Ham #208 - Red Ball.   Chrs! Russ From: "erieberk@..." <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2012 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney v Mantua   Steve, As far as I'm aware, Varney didn't use multiple car side numbers on their cardboard side reefers (or boxcars). The Varney pre-War and post-War R-13 Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer used the car side number, 200, so your Rath's 208 sides appear to be from another manufacturer. Besides Varney's embossed sides though, they did produce non-embossed cardstock sides during the War, as the "Main Line" series, but the "Main Line" Black Hawk Ham reefer was also numbered 200. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18940	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Red Ball Raths Raths #208

Hi, Russ, I would imagine then, that one of my Varney cars, the one with flat, not embossed, sides, is maybe a Redball then. Thinking a bit tonight, I may actually have a third set of Rath's sides. This may mean that my memory goofed on my 1946 car. I built my NOS Rath's car a number of years ago. I even cut the paper sides out of the larger sheet that Varney supplied. True NOS. If I remember correctly now (And this is a considerable IF), I vaguely recall having another set of Rath's sides that I'd tried to add definition to. One could barely see the embossed door hinges or latch usually, so I tried (Keyword is TRIED) to paint those black. Didn't work very well. Possibly, I may have tried this on the original Varney sides I had in the kit, failed, and then used another set of sides. I'll have to do more digging now. Also because I had bought a large lot of NOS paper sides years ago, and am now hoping to finally use some. Kill two birds with one stone this way. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 4/8/12, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: From: Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Red Ball Raths Raths #208 To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, April 8, 2012, 12:44 AM   Steve, Ray W...as usual, I'm out of phase...have been following various threads while chained to microscope being a bottleneck for mining EIS...(gotta get a life)....but it pays for the hobby.   I have a Raths Blackhawk Ham #208 - Red Ball.   Chrs! Russ From: "erieberk@..." <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2012 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney v Mantua   Steve, As far as I'm aware, Varney didn't use multiple car side numbers on their cardboard side reefers (or boxcars). The Varney pre-War and post-War R-13 Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer used the car side number, 200, so your Rath's 208 sides appear to be from another manufacturer. Besides Varney's embossed sides though, they did produce non-embossed cardstock sides during the War, as the "Main Line" series, but the "Main Line" Black Hawk Ham reefer was also numbered 200. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18941	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/7/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Apologies all...another case of leaping before I looked...(!)   On checking Dave Spanagel's (Reporting Mark) card-sided car list, which I should have done first,   Rath's Blackhawk Ham car sides in blue/white, RPRX #208, were produced by Red Ball, Mantua and Varney. Dave noted that the Varney colours were duller.   Varney also did Raths #200, Mantua did #205 and 'CHAMPI' did #210. I assume the latter is Champion and not Champ?   Another learning experience!! Chrs, Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18942	From: takefive247	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Dave Spanagel's (Reporting Marks

Where would I find a copy of the list? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > Apologies all...another case of leaping before I looked...(!) >   > On checking Dave Spanagel's (Reporting Mark) card-sided car list, which I should have done first, >   > Rath's Blackhawk Ham car sides in blue/white, RPRX #208, were produced by Red Ball, Mantua and Varney. Dave noted that the Varney colours were duller. >   > Varney also did Raths #200, Mantua did #205 and 'CHAMPI' did #210. I assume the latter is Champion and not Champ? >   > Another learning experience!! > Chrs, Russ >   >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18943	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Red Ball Raths Raths #208

Hi Russ, I had suspected that Red Ball may have offered a Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer (or perhaps just sides) having the number 208, and this was going to be my next place to look for this car side. Actually, only that Steve states receiving these sides directly from Varney and having a Varney invoice dated 1946, I had suspected before this that his may have been Red Ball. Thanks for replying with this additional info for Rath's #208. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18944	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Russ, I tried looking through Spanagel's Reporting Mark for listings of Varney car side numbers, but in doing so, I found well over a dozen (up to maybe 20) different issues having lists and additions to these lists by a good number of various members (myself possibly included, I don't remember). With so much material having to go through yesterday, I just gave up on that search. Glad you were able to actually come up with this number (#208). BUT, if Dave Spanagel published in his HO SC&H SIG Reporting Mark that Varney produced a cardstock or paper side R-13 Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer, he certainly never published this information in his Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains book, as he lists only #200 there for that car. One would think that if he had thought #208 to be a legitimate number for the R-13 Rath's reefer, that he would have definitely included it in his Varney book, yet he didn't. Can you give us a date as to when the Rath's #208 was published in the Reporting Mark? (Was it perhaps published after 1991, the year the Varney Guide was produced?). With Varney now possibly having more than one road number for a cardstock/paper sided reefer when no other roadnames (boxcars or reefers) for these sides are described as having more than one road number, would seem to put an entirely new complexion on the disposition of these cars -- making it feasible with this addition for any of the other similar cars to have more than one road number. It seems odd though that no other Varney cardstock/paper side boxcar or reefer was ever reported to have more than one road number, so a question comes to mind -- why only Rath's Black Hawk Ham and no others? Something seems amiss here, as it's out of character for Gordon Varney to have come out with multiple road numbers for one cardstock/paper side reefer or boxcar, if he never came out with multiple numbers for any other sides of these same series. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18945	From: Bill Wright	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

I just uploaded a photo of RPRX 208 which I thought was built from RedBall carsides. I acquired this already built about 45 years ago. Can anyone tell if this is Redball, Mantua or Varney? The photo is in the album labeled "Boomer Bill's Cars". Bill Wright MMR modeling the Green Bay and Western <http://users.hal-pc.org/~wmewrght/gbs.html>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18946	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Attachments : sfrd 21882.jpg On 4/8/2012 8:26 AM, Bill Wright wrote: > I just uploaded a photo of RPRX 208 which I thought was built from > RedBall carsides. I acquired this already built about 45 years ago. Can > anyone tell if this is Redball, Mantua or Varney? > > The photo is in the album labeled "Boomer Bill's Cars". > > Bill Wright MMR > modeling the Green Bay and Western > <http://users.hal-pc.org/~wmewrght/gbs.html> > > OK, just to muddy the water, attached is a photo of what I always THOUGHT was another number variation on a Varney cardstock, but now perhaps is this Red Ball also? Don

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18947	From: takefive247	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

I just uplpaded my Mantua Rath's #208 in Bill's Mantua album. Bill, Would you post a photo of the bottom of your Redball. And anyone with a Varney post it as well. Thanks Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@...> wrote: > > I just uploaded a photo of RPRX 208 which I thought was built from > RedBall carsides. I acquired this already built about 45 years ago. Can > anyone tell if this is Redball, Mantua or Varney? > > The photo is in the album labeled "Boomer Bill's Cars". > > Bill Wright MMR > modeling the Green Bay and Western > <http://users.hal-pc.org/~wmewrght/gbs.html> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18948	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Hmmm, The photo with the filename of 'RPRX208RB' looks like the car I found last night. Same kind of printed sides and foil ends. Except, mine also had a Varney brakewheel and Varney ice hatch originally. As I said, only one ice hatch was on when I got it, though. So we can scratch the one I thought as being prewar Varney, as not even a Varney then. Still leaves in question my 1946 car, also with road number 208. Should probably take a picture of it then! Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 4/8/12, Bill Wright <wmewrght@...> wrote: From: Bill Wright <wmewrght@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Raths #208 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 8, 2012, 8:26 AM   I just uploaded a photo of RPRX 208 which I thought was built from RedBall carsides. I acquired this already built about 45 years ago. Can anyone tell if this is Redball, Mantua or Varney? The photo is in the album labeled "Boomer Bill's Cars". Bill Wright MMR modeling the Green Bay and Western <http://users.hal-pc.org/~wmewrght/gbs.html>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18949	From: al45390	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Bill G., Pointing out the obvious, your car is steel sided, while Bill W.'s is wood. Yours also shows the steel structural member underneath the steel siding. Yours also sports brass wheels and it looks like the truck side frames are rigid. Bill W.'s car's trucks look to me as if they are sprung. Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18950	From: takefive247	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Thanks Walter for pointing that out. I am confident mine is all original Mantua. I have uncut sides with the name on them. The question is still whether Varney or Red Ball or anyone else used the same Rd. #'s. I have several Mantua cars similar to other mnfg. signage but diff. Rd. #'s. It seems to me that if Mr. Varney had his own photographs as the Greensberg guide suggests. That there was some competition if not a feud between companies. That cardboard sides were sold separately and hobby shops probably did not stock all, plus modelers themselves were doing some really fantastic work. Then just because someone has a car with a particular number on it really means nothing. I think we need more verafacation. Unless it doesn't matter to anyone besides me. . As Ray has said and others have eluded to Varney did not do a Rath`s # 208. Yet it shows up on Hoseaker and other places as a Varney. And there are others not in the Varney book nor any catalog I can find. Something no one has pointed out is the difference in the text between my photo and Bill W`s. If you want to have some fun with that lets see who can find the difference and how many of you have ether type. I think have both. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Bill G., > Pointing out the obvious, your car is steel sided, while Bill W.'s is wood. Yours also shows the steel structural member underneath the steel siding. Yours also sports brass wheels and it looks like the truck side frames are rigid. Bill W.'s car's trucks look to me as if they are sprung. > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18951	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

The fun part is buying something you see in a photo, do your research, think you know....then you get this, which is still interesting: North American Despatch (Yellow) #6001, a mid-50's Mantua plastic reefer, with Red Ball (SVS 22) sides glued on. Or, a reefer with cardboard boxcar sides (including glued on doors) and several years later, the opposite, boxcar with glued-on cradboard reefer sides. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Walter for pointing that out. I am confident mine is all original Mantua. I have uncut sides with the name on them. The question is still whether Varney or Red Ball or anyone else used the same Rd. #'s. I have several Mantua cars similar to other mnfg. signage but diff. Rd. #'s. > > It seems to me that if Mr. Varney had his own photographs as the Greensberg guide suggests. That there was some competition if not a feud between companies. That cardboard sides were sold separately and hobby shops probably did not stock all, plus modelers themselves were doing some really fantastic work. Then just because someone has a car with a particular number on it really means nothing. I think we need more verafacation. Unless it doesn't matter to anyone besides me. . > > As Ray has said and others have eluded to Varney did not do a Rath`s # 208. Yet it shows up on Hoseaker and other places as a Varney. And there are others not in the Varney book nor any catalog I can find. > > Something no one has pointed out is the difference in the text between my photo and Bill W`s. If you want to have some fun with that lets see who can find the difference and how many of you have ether type. I think have both. > > Bill G. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > Bill G., > > Pointing out the obvious, your car is steel sided, while Bill W.'s is wood. Yours also shows the steel structural member underneath the steel siding. Yours also sports brass wheels and it looks like the truck side frames are rigid. Bill W.'s car's trucks look to me as if they are sprung. > > Walter > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18952	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

On 4/8/2012 3:30 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > The fun part is buying something you see in a photo, do your research, think you know....then you get this, which is still interesting: > North American Despatch (Yellow) #6001, a mid-50's Mantua plastic reefer, with Red Ball (SVS 22) sides glued on. > Or, a reefer with cardboard boxcar sides (including glued on doors) and several years later, the opposite, boxcar with glued-on cradboard reefer sides. > > Dave > stowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ My favorite one was a fuzzy picture on eBay that you couldn't really tell for sure WHAT it was other than it was an NP reefer. The description was "wood boxcar with paper on the sides" My winning bid was the princely sum of 25 CENTS. When it came it was a Silverstreak car with Kadees and Central Valleys. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18953	From: Bill W	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

Bill G, I have uploaded a photo of the bottom on my RPRX 208. The trucks aren't sprung. They are Varney trucks and the couplers are vintage 1940s or maybe early 1950s. So my guess that this was a Redball is probably incorrect. This looks to me more likely to be a Varney. I would like to hear what you experts think. The fourth line on the lower right below the capy etc lines reads: "MSC CO C-R 2-33". Bill Wright --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > I just uplpaded my Mantua Rath's #208 in Bill's Mantua album. > > Bill, Would you post a photo of the bottom of your Redball. And anyone with a Varney post it as well. > Thanks > Bill G. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > I just uploaded a photo of RPRX 208 which I thought was built from > > RedBall carsides. I acquired this already built about 45 years ago. Can > > anyone tell if this is Redball, Mantua or Varney? > > > > The photo is in the album labeled "Boomer Bill's Cars". > > > > Bill Wright MMR > > modeling the Green Bay and Western > > <http://users.hal-pc.org/~wmewrght/gbs.html> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18954	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

A quick clarification for those pursuing the Rath's ID, belated response to Ray W's query....my information was gleaned from Dave Spanagel's two card-sided car listings, one by road, one by manufacturer, which he produced for members of the HO Collectors SIG, and which are copyrighted to him. The lists were not published in The Reporting Mark.   The relevant details of the Rath's cars in Dave's manufacturers listing are copied below. Members of the SIG may confirm that Dave accrued car information from the membership to collate the listings, so the cars, or separate sides produced by the various manufacturers, have been sighted.          \!ANUFA  STOCK #  CARD TY AAR DES  ROAD     ROAD #   COLOR            LOGO- UNIQUE            LENGTH               UNIQUE CHAR. 123 CHAMPI   #204          EC              RA         R.P.R.X.    210       DKBLU       RATH'S BLACKHAWKHA!MS 40    WS, IN RED LETTERING, WHITE M.S.C.CO 3-34 IN LOWERRT. 589 MAN        #9419         ES              RA        RPRX        205       BL/WHI       RATH'S BLACK HAWK           40     S 590 MAN        #9419         ES              RA        RPRX        208       BL/WHI       RATH'S BLACK HAWK           40     996 REDBAL SVS10#85#278 EC         RA        R.P.R.X.    208       BL/WH       RATH'S BLACKHAWKHA!   41     S, FROMTHE LAND 0' CORN MSC CO C P 35 IN BLUE FIELD 1.394 VAR      R13            ES             RA        RPRX        200       WE/BL        RATH' S BLACK                   42    W.S . HAWK HAM 1.395 VAR      R5              S               RA        RPRX        208       BL U/WH    LIKE R13                             42 .   S. DULLER COLORS       Best, Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18955	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

G'Day Russ, As Dave Spanagel's info for his cardstock side list (and for the 'Reporting Mark' issues) all come from the various members of the HO Collectors SIG of that time, there's no way of knowing whether any of it may be erroneous -- just as there's no way of knowing if any info sent in to HO Seekers may be erroneous. Even back when the HO SC&H SIG group was going strong, I'm sure there were at least a few modelers who used Champion or Red Ball (or even Mantua) car sides on other manufacturers' car bodies -- which may easily have fallen into other modelers' hands at train meets. Since Spangel's lists were mostly made up from the input of the SIG group modelers, sent in for the purpose of it being published in the Reporting Mark, I'll try going through all the additions of supposed Varney car numbers in those publications. As I already mentioned, and as I'm sure you're well aware, there are numerous Varney car number additions that were sent in, so it could take me some time but I want to see when the Varney Rath's number in question was included in the Reporting Mark. If it was before Spanagel published his Varney Guide, that would seem to indicate he put no credence into the number since he never published it in the book. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18956	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: HO group recommendation wanted

Lon, There are a lot of yahoo groups for ho scale,take a look at yahoo groups and you will find them,I am a member of the following,most of these are not confined to specific era or interest,there are probably more than 100 more listed for model trains.  STMFC:steam era freight cars Ho modelers HO railroading HO trains MFCL:modern freight car list:post 1960         Alan From: Lon <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 8:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] HO group recommendation wanted   Hi, I am enjoying this group and will continue to do so but my interests are not confined to vintage HO. Can anyone recommend an HO group that discusses trains just a little newer than the vintage period? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18957	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: HO group recommendation wanted

I also belong to http://www.railroad-line.com.  I really like that forum.  It appears that it is generally focused on the structures builders, but it does have a lot more sections that involve various periods of layout building, locomotives, rolling stock, scratchbuilding, etc. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: albyrno@... Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 08:00:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] HO group recommendation wanted   Lon, There are a lot of yahoo groups for ho scale,take a look at yahoo groups and you will find them,I am a member of the following,most of these are not confined to specific era or interest,there are probably more than 100 more listed for model trains.  STMFC:steam era freight cars Ho modelers HO railroading HO trains MFCL:modern freight car list:post 1960         Alan From: Lon <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 8:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] HO group recommendation wanted   Hi, I am enjoying this group and will continue to do so but my interests are not confined to vintage HO. Can anyone recommend an HO group that discusses trains just a little newer than the vintage period? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18958	From: takefive247	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

May I add that Dave's list has the mfg. # R-5 for the Varney 208 and the discripton is incomplete. His book has R-5 as a Union Refrigerator Transit #81307. My eyes are bad and may be missing something again Can't have it both ways. Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > G'Day Russ, > > As Dave Spanagel's info for his cardstock side list (and for the 'Reporting > Mark' issues) all come from the various members of the HO Collectors SIG of > that time, there's no way of knowing whether any of it may be erroneous -- > just as there's no way of knowing if any info sent in to HO Seekers may be > erroneous. Even back when the HO SC&H SIG group was going strong, I'm sure > there were at least a few modelers who used Champion or Red Ball (or even > Mantua) car sides on other manufacturers' car bodies -- which may easily have > fallen into other modelers' hands at train meets. > > Since Spangel's lists were mostly made up from the input of the SIG group > modelers, sent in for the purpose of it being published in the Reporting > Mark, I'll try going through all the additions of supposed Varney car numbers in > those publications. As I already mentioned, and as I'm sure you're well > aware, there are numerous Varney car number additions that were sent in, so it > could take me some time but I want to see when the Varney Rath's number in > question was included in the Reporting Mark. If it was before Spanagel > published his Varney Guide, that would seem to indicate he put no credence into > the number since he never published it in the book. > > Ray F. W. </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18959	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: HH660 moving ahead

Attachments : IMG_7884.JPG IMG_7883.JPG IMG_7880.JPG Now that I have all the handrails and stanchions replaced I have to install motor truck and dummy truck so I can put on the hanging steps front and back, the ladder steps at 4 corners and the couplers. I have also started to sand the roof with 1000 grit paper. I would have like crocus cloth because it has stronger backing to it like Emory cloth. Question Does anyone have the original pre war bronze 6 volt Walthers HH660 instruction plans? If so could you copy and send to me? The plans I am using are dated 1946 and I believe are for the cast lead post war version. I think there might be a difference in constructing and mounting the hanging steps front and back and possible other details especially if different side frames were used. It's a guessing game at the moment as the dummy truck/side frames that came with my engine might not be the right one. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18960	From: P Entingh	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Chuck: Hopefully you or someone else can help. A few months back I acquired an 8 panel box car, ATSF # 116699, assembled, which I told you about and you added it to your list. Your spread sheets has it listed under Ulrich on line 58  as a sectional wood sheath box car. This came in a Roundhouse Red box with instructions. Box labeled same. I just acquired the same car,  #118905  Kit, This car came in a very old roundhouse box, could not read the ends. Did Roundhouse acquire Ulrich at some date or is there a mix-up somewhere? Thought you would be interested. Philip Entingh From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 10:07 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Yes, Phil, that is a great site with lots of interesting information.  I have used it before to answer some questions I had about some items.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: I found a site that lists all 10 Thomas Industry tank cars, also their other products. www.hoseeker.net/lit.html     You might just find a few other things of interest.  Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18961	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Except for a craftsman kit in the early 60's (Frisco), I believe that Ulrich made only outside braced boxcars.  Roundhouse used its standard boxcar superstructure to make a variety of boxcars, simply by changing the side panels.  Your Santa Fe panel box was one of the variations. John B. Allyn From: "P Entingh" <pjentingh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 4:38:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Chuck: Hopefully you or someone else can help. A few months back I acquired an 8 panel box car, ATSF # 116699, assembled, which I told you about and you added it to your list. Your spread sheets has it listed under Ulrich on line 58  as a sectional wood sheath box car. This came in a Roundhouse Red box with instructions. Box labeled same. I just acquired the same car,  #118905  Kit, This car came in a very old roundhouse box, could not read the ends. Did Roundhouse acquire Ulrich at some date or is there a mix-up somewhere? Thought you would be interested. Philip Entingh From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 10:07 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Yes, Phil, that is a great site with lots of interesting information.  I have used it before to answer some questions I had about some items.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: I found a site that lists all 10 Thomas Industry tank cars, also their other products. www.hoseeker.net/lit.html     You might just find a few other things of interest.  Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18962	From: willard seehorn	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

If I recall correctly (I'm working from memory and have  - correclty  - been accused of working without tools when I do this: I think that Ulrich did make (metal) hoppers.  I know they made a track cleaning car kit as I assembled one and still have parts of it around somewhere. I think they also made tractor/trailer kits. Willard -----Original Message----- From: john.allyn@... Sent: Apr 9, 2012 7:32 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets Except for a craftsman kit in the early 60's (Frisco), I believe that Ulrich made only outside braced boxcars.  Roundhouse used its standard boxcar superstructure to make a variety of boxcars, simply by changing the side panels.  Your Santa Fe panel box was one of the variations. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18963	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Hello Philip,   Looking at the lists, I see line 58/59 in the “V List MDC cast cars” the ATSF # 116699 car.  I do not see it in the Ulrich list at all.  This entry on the MDC file also shows #118905.  Please recheck your lists.   To the best of my knowledge, Roundhouse never acquired Ulrich.  At one point, Walthers did acquire Ulrich.  I am not sure if they still own the line.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 5:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: Hopefully you or someone else can help. A few months back I acquired an 8 panel box car, ATSF # 116699, assembled, which I told you about and you added it to your list. Your spread sheets has it listed under Ulrich on line 58  as a sectional wood sheath box car. This came in a Roundhouse Red box with instructions. Box labeled same. I just acquired the same car,  #118905  Kit, This car came in a very old roundhouse box, could not read the ends. Did Roundhouse acquire Ulrich at some date or is there a mix-up somewhere? Thought you would be interested. Philip Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 10:07 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Yes, Phil, that is a great site with lots of interesting information.  I have used it before to answer some questions I had about some items.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: I found a site that lists all 10 Thomas Industry tank cars, also their other products. www.hoseeker.net/lit.html     You might just find a few other things of interest.  Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18964	From: P Entingh	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Chuck: Seems I somehow got a page in the wrong place the first time I printed them out. Threw them all out and reprinted them all. Thanks for the help. Philip Entingh From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 8:27 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   Hello Philip,   Looking at the lists, I see line 58/59 in the “V List MDC cast cars” the ATSF # 116699 car.  I do not see it in the Ulrich list at all.  This entry on the MDC file also shows #118905.  Please recheck your lists.   To the best of my knowledge, Roundhouse never acquired Ulrich.  At one point, Walthers did acquire Ulrich.  I am not sure if they still own the line.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 5:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: Hopefully you or someone else can help. A few months back I acquired an 8 panel box car, ATSF # 116699, assembled, which I told you about and you added it to your list. Your spread sheets has it listed under Ulrich on line 58  as a sectional wood sheath box car. This came in a Roundhouse Red box with instructions. Box labeled same. I just acquired the same car,  #118905  Kit, This car came in a very old roundhouse box, could not read the ends. Did Roundhouse acquire Ulrich at some date or is there a mix-up somewhere? Thought you would be interested. Philip Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 10:07 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Yes, Phil, that is a great site with lots of interesting information.  I have used it before to answer some questions I had about some items.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: I found a site that lists all 10 Thomas Industry tank cars, also their other products. www.hoseeker.net/lit.html     You might just find a few other things of interest.  Phil Entingh   From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Hi Phil,   Yes someone is lurking ready to update the files with any new inputs.  May take a day or two, but I usually get them update soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of pjentingh Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     I am a new member, and am pleased to find so much data on the various manufacturers spread sheets. Do you have anyone that can update these with additional information. I just obtained a Roundhouse Metal sectional Wood Sheathed Box Car. B 701 on the box. ATSF #116699. This number is not on the spread sheet. This car seems never to have been used, In original Red box, with the assy. sheet showing the picture of this car with this number. So I have to believe it is authentic. I have other cars that I can't find on the data sheets.If this info. is useful, I will send more as I can get it together. Phil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18965	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 moving ahead [3 Attachments]

Attachments : Crestline HO Motor Unit-18965.jpg Hi Jim, Just home from a log day in the city and a night meeting here.  Unfortunately I do not have the 1937-1939 plans for the Walthers bronze HH600 kit.  I do have the instruction sheets that accompanied the second version (also 6-8 volt) "Crestline" power truck (see attached illustration) from circa 1939-1940 and can copy them for you and mail as they would be of interest to you anyhow.   The earliest sideframes for the bronze Alco HH600 were the bronze "round roller bearing" versions, per the Walthers ad previously posted by one of our members, and per the 1938 and 1939 catalogs. The unpowered truck had a wide bolster, and the powertruck sidfreames were joined by a brass strip and clipped on from below. My complete unit also has them that way.  The damaged verion I purchased many years ago only came with one sidfreme and it was the later 1940-on cast lead "square friction bearing" version with narrow bolster on the traling truck and per later instructions, also clipped on from underneath.   W Jay W. From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 4:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] HH660 moving ahead [3 Attachments]   Now that I have all the handrails and stanchions replaced I have to install motor truck and dummy truck so I can put on the hanging steps front and back, the ladder steps at 4 corners and the couplers. I have also started to sand the roof with 1000 grit paper. I would have like crocus cloth because it has stronger backing to it like Emory cloth. Question Does anyone have the original pre war bronze 6 volt Walthers HH660 instruction plans? If so could you copy and send to me? The plans I am using are dated 1946 and I believe are for the cast lead post war version. I think there might be a difference in constructing and mounting the hanging steps front and back and possible other details especially if different side frames were used. It's a guessing game at the moment as the dummy truck/side frames that came with my engine might not be the right one. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18966	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front

Hi Looking for one of the 60's ? cast front for the doodlebug, they had a complete GM&O doodlbug and there was the part only available, unfortunately I do not know the part number is. Anyone know where to find one ? Thanks Charlie

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18967	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front

I wish I did......... Mike Bauers On Apr 10, 2012, at 2:29 AM, railroads@... wrote: > Hi > > Looking for one of the 60's ? cast front for the doodlebug, they had a complete GM&O doodlbug and there was the part only available, unfortunately I do not know the part number is. > > Anyone know where to find one ? > > Thanks > > Charlie

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18968	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers GM&O Doodlebug parts (does anyone have complete kit or

Charlie, Those G&MO scale modelers must have monopolized the market on those nice looking models as I have never even seen one outside of the catalog illustrations or found a kit. Does anyone in our group have a kit or assembled model of both the lead unit and matching trailer coach? That GM&O two car model consist was a "newer" 1960's era Walthers kit and I have notes on it, but not with me this moment (not at home). My impression at this time is that the front end casting appears to have been in two parts, one of which may, I emphasize the word may, have been the C&NW casting that one removed the top portion of and substituted a separate top radiator casting that the supplied. A check of the later 1960's and 1970's's Walthers parts section seems to confirm that, as well as I have one of those top portion radiator section castings which came along with a regular C&NW nose casting stuffed in another Walthers kit for a PRR MU passenger car. I will try to post more information tonight after checking my resources, but that will have to be following another night meeting tonight. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, railroads@... wrote: > > Hi > > Looking for one of the 60's ? cast front for the doodlebug, they had a complete GM&O doodlbug and there was the part only available, unfortunately I do not know the part number is. > > Anyone know where to find one ? > > Thanks > > Charlie >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18969	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Oops . . . I meant boxcars only and it was a bad way for me to put it.  On top of that I was wrong -- Ulrich also made a double sheathed boxcar using the same superstructure.  The outside braced boxcar had cast bracing backed with scribed wood, which made it easy to produce a stock car which they did,   Ulrich made die cast triple and twin hoppers, a couple of flat cars (varying underframes), a really nice drop bottom gondola (I have a small herd of them, letered for my own road), a 50 foot war emergency gondola, the track cleaner, and the tractor trailer sets.   John B. Allyn From: "willard seehorn" <wseehorn@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 7:09:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets   If I recall correctly (I'm working from memory and have  - correclty  - been accused of working without tools when I do this: I think that Ulrich did make (metal) hoppers.  I know they made a track cleaning car kit as I assembled one and still have parts of it around somewhere. I think they also made tractor/trailer kits. Willard -----Original Message----- From: john.allyn@... Sent: Apr 9, 2012 7:32 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets Except for a craftsman kit in the early 60's (Frisco), I believe that Ulrich made only outside braced boxcars.  Roundhouse used its standard boxcar superstructure to make a variety of boxcars, simply by changing the side panels.  Your Santa Fe panel box was one of the variations. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18970	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Raths #208

This is a tentative answer to the Red Ball/Varney et al question on Rath carsides. I must try to locate a sheet of paper and medical considerations won't permit that for a couple weeks so memory must suffice temporarily. Howell Day turned over to me, in 1975-76 a handfull of glossy colored printed sheets with three or four different carsides. I believe Rath was one of them He explained it was printed in MODEL RAILROADER and he purchased an over run of the sheets from Kalmbach. He continued to sell carsides made of these printed sheets. Carsides HE printed were not coated (glossy) paper. Carsides HE printed were "scribed" cardboard made by a run through the press after each color had been printed but with a plate that pressed in the scribing.(Red Ball did NOT "print" the boards, but had some sides with printed boards). If you guys are looking at sides with PRINTED rather than SCRIBED "boards" and if the paper is not the typical Red Ball surface then I suspect you are looking at sides that could have been added to most any reefer by modelers-- and that other kit makers besides Red Ball MAY have also purchased from Kalmbach for resale. I hope to locate a surviving copy of the sheet (to verify wat all was on it). I assume it would also appear in early copies of MR. Howell Day did market those sides with kits and individually. There were also other isolated printed (not embossed) sides with printed-not embossed- boards in the Red Ball line that he picked up from other defunct or discontinuing kitmaker(s).(These would be sides HE did not print). The only specific one that immediately comes to mind is an orange PFE. It was common practice of model builders to swap sides and castings on kits in the 50s-60s era so positive ID is unlikely on many items. After 1975 the printed sides were sold (by us-- "Wabash Valley Lines, Inc for 59c) along with generic bodies as "QuicKits" while all new Red Ball sides were wood. (We did reissue a couple of "anniversary" kits with card sides). The wood was silk screened fot years until we installed a pad printer for printing the plastic (Cannonball) carsides and did a handful of wood kits with it. We did some of our own screening but generally it was done by Gene Walp of Pensacola,FL. Gene did screening for many wood kitmakers quite economically but with interruptions for hurricanes and healthy issues. In general our new art would soon appear on someone else's kits too- but in other scales Gene did, S usually-- Thus creating another challenge to those of you trying to trace ancient ID. Merle Rice former mfgr of Red Ball for 3 decades --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Walter for pointing that out. I am confident mine is all original Mantua. I have uncut sides with the name on them. The question is still whether Varney or Red Ball or anyone else used the same Rd. #'s. I have several Mantua cars similar to other mnfg. signage but diff. Rd. #'s. > > It seems to me that if Mr. Varney had his own photographs as the Greensberg guide suggests. That there was some competition if not a feud between companies. That cardboard sides were sold separately and hobby shops probably did not stock all, plus modelers themselves were doing some really fantastic work. Then just because someone has a car with a particular number on it really means nothing. I think we need more verafacation. Unless it doesn't matter to anyone besides me. . > > As Ray has said and others have eluded to Varney did not do a Rath`s # 208. Yet it shows up on Hoseaker and other places as a Varney. And there are others not in the Varney book nor any catalog I can find. > > Something no one has pointed out is the difference in the text between my photo and Bill W`s. If you want to have some fun with that lets see who can find the difference and how many of you have ether type. I think have both. > > Bill G. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > Bill G., > > Pointing out the obvious, your car is steel sided, while Bill W.'s is wood. Yours also shows the steel structural member underneath the steel siding. Yours also sports brass wheels and it looks like the truck side frames are rigid. Bill W.'s car's trucks look to me as if they are sprung. > > Walter > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18971	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front

Charlie, While I don't know where you can find a set of the G&MO ends, if it helps, the Walthers catalog number is 933-850(U). The front end is similar to the C &NW (#933-834(U)). but there are quite noteable differences, both in the louvers and in the pilot, and also in the left hand window.. The GM&O front is two-piece, however -- with the forward roof section -- described as the radiator casting -- separate, but nothing interchangeable with the C&NW. This roof/radiator section is cast integral with the C&NW front. (and rear, as both ends on the C&NW are the same). Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18972	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Philip,   I will load a header to each file so that the file name appears on the top of each printed sheet.  I should have done that sooner.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of P Entingh Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 9:56 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets     Chuck: Seems I somehow got a page in the wrong place the first time I printed them out. Threw them all out and reprinted them all. Thanks for the help. Philip Entingh

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18973	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front

Charlie et al., Funny that this question should come up now as I happen to be just starting to build both the older C&NW and newer GM&O Walthers doodlebugs, and I am sitting here looking at both front ends as I write. Not much that I can add to Ray's comments except that the details are such that its like looking at two completely different cars from the front end ( there are various differences other places too). As Ray says, the two fronts are not interchangeable as almost every detail on them is significant. And they did do a nicer job on the later front casting. Incidentally, I am planning to add some lighting goodies to one of the cars (constant headlights, Adlake lamps) though I can't decide which one at the present.   Art W     In a message dated 4/10/2012 9:45:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, erieberk@... writes: Charlie, While I don't know where you can find a set of the G&MO ends, if it helps, the Walthers catalog number is 933-850(U).  The front end is similar to the C &NW (#933-834(U)). but there are quite noteable differences, both in the louvers and in the pilot, and also in the left hand window..  The GM&O front is two-piece, however -- with the forward roof section -- described as the radiator casting -- separate, but nothing interchangeable with the C&NW.  This roof/radiator section is cast integral with the C&NW front. (and rear, as both ends on the C&NW are the same). Ray F. W. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18974	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 moving ahead [1 Attachment]

W Jay W            First I have to start calling the engine a HH600. I don't know why I started calling it HH660.  I was able to copy the Crestline power truck and it came out that I can see it good even the motor/ power truck detail.       Truck situation is starting to confuse me. The dummy truck that came with the bronze engine. It has a wide bolster which I believe is a "pot" metal of some kind and I see what looks like three small numbers ( 175 ? ) on top of the bolster  and the "round roller bearing "version but this truck while it seems to show some bronze must have a good coating of something silver that you can clean off. ( Early version ?? )      I am missing the side frame that goes over the power truck. I took one of the side frames with the brass strip and clipped it on the power truck for now. It is "cast lead" with the square friction bearing ( cast lead later version ?? ).                                                                                              Jim H On 4/9/2012 10:14 PM, Jay Wanczyk wrote:   Hi Jim, Just home from a log day in the city and a night meeting here.  Unfortunately I do not have the 1937-1939 plans for the Walthers bronze HH600 kit.  I do have the instruction sheets that accompanied the second version (also 6-8 volt) "Crestline" power truck (see attached illustration) from circa 1939-1940 and can copy them for you and mail as they would be of interest to you anyhow.   The earliest sideframes for the bronze Alco HH600 were the bronze "round roller bearing" versions, per the Walthers ad previously posted by one of our members, and per the 1938 and 1939 catalogs. The unpowered truck had a wide bolster, and the powertruck sidfreames were joined by a brass strip and clipped on from below. My complete unit also has them that way.  The damaged verion I purchased many years ago only came with one sidfreme and it was the later 1940-on cast lead "square friction bearing" version with narrow bolster on the traling truck and per later instructions, also clipped on from underneath.   W Jay W. From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 4:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] HH660 moving ahead [3 Attachments]   Now that I have all the handrails and stanchions replaced I have to install motor truck and dummy truck so I can put on the hanging steps front and back, the ladder steps at 4 corners and the couplers. I have also started to sand the roof with 1000 grit paper. I would have like crocus cloth because it has stronger backing to it like Emory cloth. Question Does anyone have the original pre war bronze 6 volt Walthers HH660 instruction plans? If so could you copy and send to me? The plans I am using are dated 1946 and I believe are for the cast lead post war version. I think there might be a difference in constructing and mounting the hanging steps front and back and possible other details especially if different side frames were used. It's a guessing game at the moment as the dummy truck/side frames that came with my engine might not be the right one. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18975	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Penn Line Passenger cars available

I found a source for Penn Line Passenger cars at $9.95 each.  If anyone is interested contact me off line at CWRailman@... .  I will put you in touch with the source.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18976	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Penn Line Passenger cars available

I found a source for Penn Line Passenger cars at $9.95 each.  If anyone is interested contact me off line at CWRailman@... .  I will put you in touch with the source.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18977	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl

On the topic of Walther's Doodlebugs, I have a Walther's Gas Electric Kit #6450 with the phrase "Low-arch Roof" in small type on the label. It has the single-piece front face. From the looks of it in the old catalog cuts, it is similar to the C&NW but since it didn't call it that, I was curious if it preceded the C&NW version or was just a generic version that was offered around the same time. The 6451 (listed on HO Seeker) was a later version (can't see the drawings to be sure) from the 1960s. While the kit is nearly mint, and is complete, it is missing the instruction sheet so there really is no way to date it except that it was sold by the Denver Hobby Shop when it was on Colfax Ave. That probably puts it in the late 1950s. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Charlie, > > While I don't know where you can find a set of the G&MO ends, if it helps, > the Walthers catalog number is 933-850(U). The front end is similar to the C > &NW (#933-834(U)). but there are quite noteable differences, both in the > louvers and in the pilot, and also in the left hand window.. The GM&O front > is two-piece, however -- with the forward roof section -- described as the > radiator casting -- separate, but nothing interchangeable with the C&NW. This > roof/radiator section is cast integral with the C&NW front. (and rear, as > both ends on the C&NW are the same). > > Ray F. W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18978	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

This is it........ http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=22137&newlist=1 Here are the instructs for a slightly later version of that kit. http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg2.jpg I knew I had the same #6451 kit and just looked in her. My instructions are missing as well. I also have a yellow box one which I think is earlier. The rivet-free version. This one has a quite different style of instructions that is dated as 10-20-1939. While the kit is labeled as just Gas Electric, the instructions are filled with where to put the proper C&NW markings on the model. The print is ID'd as #5650a. I should scan and submit this 1939 instruction sheet to HOseeker. [I think I'll shadow-box this kit. I have another one of the era that is built and in need of refurbing. I'll do the refurb and get that one operating.] Mike Bauers On Apr 10, 2012, at 4:40 PM, ablecynic wrote: > On the topic of Walther's Doodlebugs, > > I have a Walther's Gas Electric Kit #6450 with the phrase "Low-arch Roof" in small type on the label. It has the single-piece front face. From the looks of it in the old catalog cuts, it is similar to the C&NW but since it didn't call it that, I was curious if it preceded the C&NW version or was just a generic version that was offered around the same time. The 6451 (listed on HO Seeker) was a later version (can't see the drawings to be sure) from the 1960s. > > While the kit is nearly mint, and is complete, it is missing the instruction sheet so there really is no way to date it except that it was sold by the Denver Hobby Shop when it was on Colfax Ave. That probably puts it in the late 1950s. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: >> >> Charlie, >> >> While I don't know where you can find a set of the G&MO ends, if it helps, >> the Walthers catalog number is 933-850(U). The front end is similar to the C >> &NW (#933-834(U)). but there are quite noteable differences, both in the >> louvers and in the pilot, and also in the left hand window.. The GM&O front >> is two-piece, however -- with the forward roof section -- described as the >> radiator casting -- separate, but nothing interchangeable with the C&NW. This >> roof/radiator section is cast integral with the C&NW front. (and rear, as >> both ends on the C&NW are the same). >> >> Ray F. W.</HTML> >>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18979	From: Rick Jones	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers GM&O Doodlebug parts (does anyone have complete kit or

On 4/10/2012 7:48 AM, Jay wrote: > Those G&MO scale modelers must have monopolized the market on those > nice looking models as I have never even seen one outside of the > catalog illustrations or found a kit. Does anyone in our group have a > kit or assembled model of both the lead unit and matching trailer > coach? I have both of those kits as well as the power truck for it. All of them buried in one of the boxes of "stuff to get built someday". -- Rick Jones "Is Marx's tomb a communist plot?" -Stephen Wright

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18980	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front

I actually have two of the front ends, one much heavier than the other and both very different from each other.  I'll try to post a pic ASAP...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18981	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

Don’t know if this is of any help but the Walthers instruction sheet Mike posted would have been printed somewhere from 1963 (start of Zip Codes) and 1969 (Walthers moved from the 53202 Zip.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:04 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front     This is it........ http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=22137&newlist=1 Here are the instructs for a slightly later version of that kit. http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg2.jpg I knew I had the same #6451 kit and just looked in her. My instructions are missing as well. I also have a yellow box one which I think is earlier. The rivet-free version. This one has a quite different style of instructions that is dated as 10-20-1939. While the kit is labeled as just Gas Electric, the instructions are filled with where to put the proper C&NW markings on the model. The print is ID'd as #5650a. I should scan and submit this 1939 instruction sheet to HOseeker. [I think I'll shadow-box this kit. I have another one of the era that is built and in need of refurbing. I'll do the refurb and get that one operating.] Mike Bauers On Apr 10, 2012, at 4:40 PM, ablecynic wrote: > On the topic of Walther's Doodlebugs, > > I have a Walther's Gas Electric Kit #6450 with the phrase "Low-arch Roof" in small type on the label. It has the single-piece front face. From the looks of it in the old catalog cuts, it is similar to the C&NW but since it didn't call it that, I was curious if it preceded the C&NW version or was just a generic version that was offered around the same time. The 6451 (listed on HO Seeker) was a later version (can't see the drawings to be sure) from the 1960s. > > While the kit is nearly mint, and is complete, it is missing the instruction sheet so there really is no way to date it except that it was sold by the Denver Hobby Shop when it was on Colfax Ave. That probably puts it in the late 1950s. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: >> >> Charlie, >> >> While I don't know where you can find a set of the G&MO ends, if it helps, >> the Walthers catalog number is 933-850(U). The front end is similar to the C >> &NW (#933-834(U)). but there are quite noteable differences, both in the >> louvers and in the pilot, and also in the left hand window.. The GM&O front >> is two-piece, however -- with the forward roof section -- described as the >> radiator casting -- separate, but nothing interchangeable with the C&NW. This >> roof/radiator section is cast integral with the C&NW front. (and rear, as >> both ends on the C&NW are the same). >> >> Ray F. W.</HTML> >>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18982	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

I think your zip code date is a major help in narrowing the date. When did Walthers change over to embossing rivets in the kit car-sides? The image of the kit has a different instruction page from the 1939 dated instructions for the non-rivet kit. This would put the yellow/blue box kits somewhere near the rivet detail change-over; somewhere between 1939 and 1963. I think someone has posted the rivet detail change date in this list before. Mike Bauers On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:06 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > Don’t know if this is of any help but the Walthers instruction sheet Mike posted would have been printed somewhere from 1963 (start of Zip Codes) and 1969 (Walthers moved from the 53202 Zip.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18983	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

On 4/10/2012 8:17 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > I think your zip code date is a major help in narrowing the date. > > When did Walthers change over to embossing rivets in the kit car-sides? > > The image of the kit has a different instruction page from the 1939 dated instructions for the non-rivet kit. > > This would put the yellow/blue box kits somewhere near the rivet detail change-over; somewhere between 1939 and 1963. > > I think someone has posted the rivet detail change date in this list before. > > Mike Bauers > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:06 PM, John Hagen wrote: > >> >> Don’t know if this is of any help but the Walthers instruction sheet Mike posted would have been printed somewhere from 1963 (start of Zip Codes) and 1969 (Walthers moved from the 53202 Zip. > > Definitely pre 1959, because that's when they changed over to the "Silver Anniversary" kits, what I call "phase III" of the metal sided cars. I think the rivets probably date to late 40's, early 50's. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18984	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl

Hi Mike B., Matt and All, Mike: I'm trying to find some time to recheck my chronological "articles" on each version of the power trucks and gas electric kits. I do not have a functioning scanner, so it would be a help it you could scan the 1939 plans and post here and to HO Seeker, as I can't do it right now. I will have to find someone here to scan the even earlier Taylor-Made/Walthers plans. Walthers did not always change catalog numbers to signify changes in these models. Aditionally, changes in power trucks often did not occur at the same time as body kit changes. Briefly the order was: 1) Circa 1937-1939 Taylor-Made/Walthers, yellow box, Armite stamped fiber card sides, sand cast bronze front end, milled wood "B" end. 2 A,B, & C.) Circa 1940-1949 Crestline or Walthers, yellow box, stamped tinplate sides, no rivets, diecast white metal front end, diecast white metal "B" end, simple rooftop details. Note, a transitional model kit with stamped tinplate sides and the original cast bronze "A" front end was cataloged for one year (Confirmed this with old, possibly factory built(?)example years ago at a general toy show). Also in the 1940's the baggage door width was changed, so versions with either 3 or 4 windows in the baggage door may be found with the stamped tinplate, no rivets sides. Note: Illustrations of older model versions were used for years in catalogs and ads before being updated to reflect even significant model changes, so they alone are not reliable to date changes!!! 3)Circa 1950, rivet detail were added to the stamped, embossed sides which still had the wide flanges that extended under the car floors. Familiar, more detailed roof parts. Newer black/orange or blue/orange boxes phased in during 1950's. 4)Circa late 1950's wide lower flanges eliminated. My formal chronology will cover each year and detail all the changes, so anyone will be able to pinpoint their version and years manuafactured. Information was gathered from catalogs, magazine ads, test reviews and actual models in my posession. Plus, I'm sure a few of you will be able to add to it once I post it. Matt: Various early Walthers catalogs noted that the Gas Electric came with a specially milled wood roof section with lower arch. The special matching kit for the C&NW trailer also came with the lower roof, and though I had the special C&NW trailer, "re-kitted" in a large mixed lot Ionce bought, it was several years before I looked at it closely and noticed the difference! Just thought it to be a regular coach until then. Not sure and will also check, but think I also read that if ordering direct, one could request the regular roof section in exchange if one wanted your C&NW gas electric roof profile to match your existing Walthers cars. Hopefully, I'll be able to post the detailed chronologies towards the end of the week. Time to turn in! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > This is it........ > > http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=22137&newlist=1 > > Here are the instructs for a slightly later version of that kit. > > http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg1.jpg > > http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg2.jpg > > I knew I had the same #6451 kit and just looked in her. My instructions are missing as well. > > I also have a yellow box one which I think is earlier. The rivet-free version. This one has a quite different style of instructions that is dated as 10-20-1939. While the kit is labeled as just Gas Electric, the instructions are filled with where to put the proper C&NW markings on the model. > > The print is ID'd as #5650a. > > I should scan and submit this 1939 instruction sheet to HOseeker. > > [I think I'll shadow-box this kit. I have another one of the era that is built and in need of refurbing. I'll do the refurb and get that one operating.] > > Mike Bauers > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 4:40 PM, ablecynic wrote: > > > On the topic of Walther's Doodlebugs, > > > > I have a Walther's Gas Electric Kit #6450 with the phrase "Low-arch Roof" in small type on the label. It has the single-piece front face. From the looks of it in the old catalog cuts, it is similar to the C&NW but since it didn't call it that, I was curious if it preceded the C&NW version or was just a generic version that was offered around the same time. The 6451 (listed on HO Seeker) was a later version (can't see the drawings to be sure) from the 1960s. > > > > While the kit is nearly mint, and is complete, it is missing the instruction sheet so there really is no way to date it except that it was sold by the Denver Hobby Shop when it was on Colfax Ave. That probably puts it in the late 1950s. > > > > Matt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@ wrote: > >> > >> Charlie, > >> > >> While I don't know where you can find a set of the G&MO ends, if it helps, > >> the Walthers catalog number is 933-850(U). The front end is similar to the C > >> &NW (#933-834(U)). but there are quite noteable differences, both in the > >> louvers and in the pilot, and also in the left hand window.. The GM&O front > >> is two-piece, however -- with the forward roof section -- described as the > >> radiator casting -- separate, but nothing interchangeable with the C&NW. This > >> roof/radiator section is cast integral with the C&NW front. (and rear, as > >> both ends on the C&NW are the same). > >> > >> Ray F. W.</HTML> > >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18985	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: HH660 moving ahead [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim H., I will try to pull mine out in the AM and look for numbers and let you know what I find. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > W Jay W > > First I have to start calling the engine a HH600. I don't > know why I started calling it HH660. I was able to copy the Crestline > power truck and it came out that I can see it good even the motor/ power > truck detail. > > Truck situation is starting to confuse me. The dummy truck that > came with the bronze engine. It has a wide bolster which I believe is a > "pot" metal of some kind and I see what looks like three small numbers ( > 175 ? ) on top of the bolster and the "round roller bearing "version > but this truck while it seems to show some bronze must have a good > coating of something silver that you can clean off. ( Early version ?? ) > > I am missing the side frame that goes over the power truck. I took > one of the side frames with the brass strip and clipped it on the power > truck for now. It is "cast lead" with the square friction bearing ( cast > lead later version ?? ). > > Jim H > > > > On 4/9/2012 10:14 PM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > Hi Jim, Just home from a log day in the city and a night meeting > > here. Unfortunately I do not have the 1937-1939 plans for the > > Walthers bronze HH600 kit. I do have the instruction sheets that > > accompanied the second version (also 6-8 volt) "Crestline" power truck > > (see attached illustration) from circa 1939-1940 and can copy them for > > you and mail as they would be of interest to you anyhow. > > The earliest sideframes for the bronze Alco HH600 were the bronze > > "round roller bearing" versions, per the Walthers ad previously posted > > by one of our members, and per the 1938 and 1939 > > catalogs. The unpowered truck had a wide bolster, and the powertruck > > sidfreames were joined by a brass strip and clipped on from below. My > > complete unit also has them that way. The damaged verion I purchased > > many years ago only came with one sidfreme and it was the later > > 1940-on cast lead "square friction bearing" version with narrow > > bolster on the traling truck and per later instructions, also clipped > > on from underneath. > > W Jay W. > > > > > > *From:* Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Monday, April 9, 2012 4:04 PM > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] HH660 moving ahead [3 Attachments] > > > > > > > > Now that I have all the handrails and stanchions replaced I have > > to install motor truck and dummy truck so I can put on the hanging steps > > front and back, the ladder steps at 4 corners and the couplers. I have > > also started to sand the roof with 1000 grit paper. I would have like > > crocus cloth because it has stronger backing to it like Emory cloth. > > > > Question Does anyone have the original pre war bronze 6 volt > > Walthers HH660 instruction plans? If so could you copy and send to me? > > The plans I am using are dated 1946 and I believe are for the cast lead > > post war version. I think there might be a difference in constructing > > and mounting the hanging steps front and back and possible other details > > especially if different side frames were used. It's a guessing game at > > the moment as the dummy truck/side frames that came with my engine might > > not be the right one. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18986	From: Jay	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl

Hi Don D., I will add reference to your ID phases in my write ups, will check with you before I post the complete article to make sure I understand your classification system. For example, your Phase III, incorpoartes the changes instituted with the Silver Anniversary kits. I believe those changes also coincided with the elimination of the wide under-body side flanges - am I correct? Thanks, W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/10/2012 8:17 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > > I think your zip code date is a major help in narrowing the date. > > > > When did Walthers change over to embossing rivets in the kit car-sides? > > > > The image of the kit has a different instruction page from the 1939 dated instructions for the non-rivet kit. > > > > This would put the yellow/blue box kits somewhere near the rivet detail change-over; somewhere between 1939 and 1963. > > > > I think someone has posted the rivet detail change date in this list before. > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:06 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > >> > >> Don't know if this is of any help but the Walthers instruction sheet Mike posted would have been printed somewhere from 1963 (start of Zip Codes) and 1969 (Walthers moved from the 53202 Zip. > > > > > Definitely pre 1959, because that's when they changed over to the > "Silver Anniversary" kits, what I call "phase III" of the metal sided > cars. I think the rivets probably date to late 40's, early 50's. > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18987	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

On 4/10/2012 10:48 PM, Jay wrote: > Hi Don D., I will add reference to your ID phases in my write ups, will check with you before I post the complete article to make sure I understand your classification system. For example, your Phase III, incorpoartes the changes instituted with the Silver Anniversary kits. I believe those changes also coincided with the elimination of the wide under-body side flanges - am I correct? Thanks, W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann<don.dellmann@...> wrote: > The elimination of the flange on the underside and a new wood roof with a higher profile to match JC's kits are the hallmarks of the "Silver Anniversary" cars. In the metal side kits, (I came up with this before I knew Walthers made the fiber sides), I broke it down into four "phases". If anyone has any better distinctions I'd like to know. Phase 1: Prewar "Crestline" cars, smooth sides, folded sides (underbody "lip") Phase II: " Postwar (or whenever, possibly late 40s, early 50's, yellow box with "15 years" slogan), rivet detail, folded sides Phase III: "Silver Anniversary", started in 1959, straight sides, new higher roof This also coincided with the move to Water Street in 1958 Phase IV" (Early 1070's ?), same sides but plastic roofs on Clerestory roof cars, super detail kits included in all kits This also was pretty much the same time as the move to 34th. St. (and the short period of a few years when I was relatively close to a number of people there, I was even at Ben Talsky's daughter's wedding. I should have used the opportunity to try and get some history when it was still relatively fresh, but too soon old, too late smart)) Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18988	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

Attachments : Taylor Made (Walthers) C&NW Gas Elecatric Thank you, Don D., I will key my descriptions of the gas electric and other passenger car sides to your already established and published major phases so as to be consistant and avoid confusion.  Major variations within the phases, such as Phase I C&NW Gas Electrics with narrow or wide baggage doors, for example could be Phase I.A. and I.B.  For the first series of "Taylor Made by Walthers" passenger cars and C&NW gas electics, we could come up with something like "Phase O" or some other digit or letter signifying the beginning, as long as it is easily understood as the beginning of Walther's line.  I am open to suggestions.  Attached is the photo of the "Taylor-Made" Gas electric box cover showing how similar it is to later yellow boxed "Crestline" and 'just plain' "Walthers" kit box graphics. Not sure if I posted it before.  W. Jay W. From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodlebug Front   On 4/10/2012 10:48 PM, Jay wrote: > Hi Don D., I will add reference to your ID phases in my write ups, will check with you before I post the complete article to make sure I understand your classification system. For example, your Phase III, incorpoartes the changes instituted with the Silver Anniversary kits. I believe those changes also coincided with the elimination of the wide under-body side flanges - am I correct? Thanks, W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann<don.dellmann@...> wrote: > The elimination of the flange on the underside and a new wood roof with a higher profile to match JC's kits are the hallmarks of the "Silver Anniversary" cars. In the metal side kits, (I came up with this before I knew Walthers made the fiber sides), I broke it down into four "phases". If anyone has any better distinctions I'd like to know. Phase 1: Prewar "Crestline" cars, smooth sides, folded sides (underbody "lip") Phase II: " Postwar (or whenever, possibly late 40s, early 50's, yellow box with "15 years" slogan), rivet detail, folded sides Phase III: "Silver Anniversary", started in 1959, straight sides, new higher roof This also coincided with the move to Water Street in 1958 Phase IV" (Early 1070's ?), same sides but plastic roofs on Clerestory roof cars, super detail kits included in all kits This also was pretty much the same time as the move to 34th. St. (and the short period of a few years when I was relatively close to a number of people there, I was even at Ben Talsky's daughter's wedding. I should have used the opportunity to try and get some history when it was still relatively fresh, but too soon old, too late smart)) Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 18989	From: takefive247	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: ID car #'s

First I want to wish Merle a speedy recovery. While he looks for the carside sheets there are some other Rd #'s in question. Merle you said you got the sheets in 75-76. That would be long after Mantua and Varney went to lithograph or silk screened sheet steel sides. Is that correct? Does anyone know when Model Railroader published those carside sheets? Don D. have you looked any further into the SFRD #21882 you have? The first 2 in the photo almost looks like a 4. (My daughter read it as a 4). It is different then the last 2. My Mantua looks exactly like it. Doesn't mean it's not a production issued car but I wonder. Perhaps Russ could check Dave"s Reporting marks list for the # 21882. Another car would be the Gerber #1001. Here the question is a little different. I believe Mantua had it in cardside and Varney had it in stamped sheet steel. HOSeaker has three photos of this car in the Varney section. The one on the second row I question because I can't see the R-39 on the bottom right. And the door and hinges look different then a Varney. Anyone have any comments here? Also the Varney book says that in 1936 they had paper sides. 1939 they had Embosed sides and 1941 they were Cardstock sides. Does any know what the time frame for Mantua was? Was it the same? And did Mantua have stamped steel sides earlyer then 1955? Thanks Bill G

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18990	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl

Mike, That's it! Thank you! And mine is the "rivet free" version also. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > This is it........ > > http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=22137&newlist=1 > > Here are the instructs for a slightly later version of that kit. > > http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg1.jpg > > http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers6451doodlebugpg2.jpg > > I knew I had the same #6451 kit and just looked in her. My instructions are missing as well. > > I also have a yellow box one which I think is earlier. The rivet-free version. This one has a quite different style of instructions that is dated as 10-20-1939. While the kit is labeled as just Gas Electric, the instructions are filled with where to put the proper C&NW markings on the model. > > The print is ID'd as #5650a. > > I should scan and submit this 1939 instruction sheet to HOseeker. > > [I think I'll shadow-box this kit. I have another one of the era that is built and in need of refurbing. I'll do the refurb and get that one operating.] > > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18991	From: Bill Wright	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - metal ladder. Bill Wright

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18992	From: takefive247	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

Bill, The second Gerber photo #1014 looks a lot like a Mantua side but I don't knew if Mantua did #1014. Thanks for posting the photos, Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@...> wrote: > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > metal ladder. > > Bill Wright >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18993	From: David J. Starr	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

On 4/10/2012 5:40 PM, ablecynic wrote: > On the topic of Walther's Doodlebugs, > I have a Walthers doodlebug which I bought as a kit at Bob Rule's Hobby Shop in Lancaster PA back in 1962 or 3, when I was in college there. The instruction sheet says "Copyright 1950 241 Erie St Milwaukee Wisconsin." The box is yellow and blue. The sticker on the end of the box says "Low Arch Roof 6450 GAS ELECTRIC Power trucks packed separately" The metal sides lack embossed rivets, and have quarter inch flanges on the bottom that lap over the floor. The instructions direct you to drill holes in the flanges to accept wood screws to fasten the sides to the floor. I notice that I drilled the holes but did not put wood screws in them. I must have used Pliobond instead of screws to avoid splitting the floor. The front is a single white metal casting. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18994	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

Glad to be of help. I'll get the instructions scanned tonight, or tomorrow at the latest.Are you thinking of building here, or just maybe looking for a similar carcass to detail and operate? There is a fellow on eBay that sells a kit 9x11 shadow box kit for about $15 plus shipping. I'm encouraged that a kit for one can be decently low priced. I wonder what the local craft stores sell one for? Here's that fellow....... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wooden-Military-Medal-or-Ribbon-Display-Case-Shadow-Box-Craft-Kit-9x11-outside-/120893754880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c25d44e00#ht_1770wt_190 eBay item number is 120893754880 if you need to search........ Mike Bauers On Apr 11, 2012, at 12:08 PM, ablecynic wrote: > Mike, > > That's it! Thank you! > > And mine is the "rivet free" version also. > > Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18995	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

Jay, Your attachment came through as something a bit strange and I can't id as an image. Hex-editing it doesn't show the typical filetype for an image. Can you please resend as a typical .jpg ? Thanks, Mike Bauers On Apr 11, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > Thank you, Don D., I will key my descriptions of the gas electric and other passenger car sides to your already established and published major phases so as to be consistant and avoid confusion. Major variations within the phases, .............

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18996	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) D

On 4/11/2012 5:42 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > Jay, > > Your attachment came through as something a bit strange and I can't id as an image. Hex-editing it doesn't show the typical filetype for an image. > > Can you please resend as a typical .jpg ? > > Thanks, > Mike Bauers > > On Apr 11, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > >> [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] >> >> Thank you, Don D., I will key my descriptions of the gas electric and other passenger car sides to your already established and published major phases so as to be consistant and avoid confusion. Major variations within the phases, ............. > This is probably a point where I need to put on my moderator/listowner hat. When posting email attachments to the list, please ONLY attatch .jpg .pdf or .txt files. Other people may have a problem with other formats. Also, unknown file types could harbor trojans or virii. Thanks Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18997	From: Bill W	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

Thank you, I didn't know Mantua had a #1014 either. Anyone else have an opinion? Bill W --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Bill, > The second Gerber photo #1014 looks a lot like a Mantua side but I don't knew if Mantua did #1014. Thanks for posting the photos, > > Bill G. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > metal ladder. > > > > Bill Wright > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18998	From: Lon	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@...> wrote: > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > metal ladder. > > Bill Wright >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18999	From: takefive247	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > metal ladder. > > > > Bill Wright > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19000	From: takefive247	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

See how roomers get started. Read closed Ebay listing GERBER BABY FOOD pink & blue, two cars, O scale printed reefer sides Guy selling O scale cardboard sides talks about ad in Model railroader. Photo taken by John Allen of Varney Gerber Ref car #1001. Not only does he mix up the scale but my guess is the photo he mentions on the back of the 1953 Model Railroader is of the metal sides that Varney introduced in 1952. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19001	From: Jay	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: -- Re: Photo formats to use and post

Hi Don D., and Mike B. Don: Thanks for the advice on the proper photo formats to use, something I have to brush up on before I post photos from other unknown sources than my own or friends' camera or scanner. Mike: I will see what I can do tonight, but probably easier for me to simply get a new digital camera and begin taking my own, lol! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/11/2012 5:42 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > > Jay, > > > > Your attachment came through as something a bit strange and I can't id as an image. Hex-editing it doesn't show the typical filetype for an image. > > > > Can you please resend as a typical .jpg ? > > > > Thanks, > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Apr 11, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > > > >> [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > >> > >> Thank you, Don D., I will key my descriptions of the gas electric and other passenger car sides to your already established and published major phases so as to be consistant and avoid confusion. Major variations within the phases, ............. > > > This is probably a point where I need to put on my moderator/listowner hat. > > When posting email attachments to the list, please ONLY attatch .jpg > .pdf or .txt files. > > Other people may have a problem with other formats. Also, unknown file > types could harbor trojans or virii. > > Thanks > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19002	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

In case there's a question concerning Red Ball's Gerber (GSVX) reefer, this car side number is 1003 -- as shown in catalogs 10 and 11. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19003	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

Don't think my wife would approve of that Jake. Just guessing however...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader   Sean, Is there any way that you could arrange a "tour of Northeast Alabama", specifically the GAdsden, AL region during our annual show on April 21st. I have to be honest though, if it was mine there is no way I would send it off across the country to someone that I don't know. But it really would look swell on the CoosaValleyModelRailroad dot com, in the Hardin Cultural Arts Center. Maybe it could be arranged for some future date? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19004	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl

Hey guys, If you go to the last image in my CWRailman photo album you will see one of the power units for the Gas Electrics you guys have been discussing.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list I thought this was a bullet proof unit but some long term running by friends who have these units in operation has indicated the load placed on the motor shaft causes wear of the front motor bearing.  In the original LaBelle Gas Electric powered kits they supplied a bracket that holds the motor and places a load bearing, bearing surface between the motor and the pulley so the tensions of the bands and weight of the shaft mounted LARGE flywheel does not wear out the motor bearing itself.  I have two of the Labelle power units in service for over 30 years and they have worked well with no wear on the motor itself.  ( DISCLAIMER!  O ne motor has been replaced for other reasons though.)   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/10/2012 8:17 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > > I think your zip code date is a major help in narrowing the date. > > > > When did Walthers change over to embossing rivets in the kit car-sides? > > > > The image of the kit has a different instruction page from the 1939 dated instructions for the non-rivet kit. > > > > This would put the yellow/blue box kits somewhere near the rivet detail change-over; somewhere between 1939 and 1963. > > > > I think someone has posted the rivet detail change date in this list before. > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:06 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > >> > >> Don't know if this is of any help but the Walthers instruction sheet Mike posted would have been printed somewhere from 1963 (start of Zip Codes) and 1969 (Walthers moved from the 53202 Zip. > > > > > Definitely pre 1959, because that's when they changed over to the > "Silver Anniversary" kits, what I call "phase III" of the metal sided > cars. I think the rivets probably date to late 40's, early 50's. > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19005	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

Hi Bill,      Here is a link to it. Not much in the way of pictures but I can post some if anyone would like. Thanks.  Lon   http://www.ebay.com/itm/140733655869?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 From: takefive247 <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:25 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID car #'s   Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > metal ladder. > > > > Bill Wright > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19006	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: PL Crusader

I'm sure she wouldn't ! Just joshing anyway. It is a beautiful model and something that I have been in love with since I was a kid. I'm sitting here with at least 10 kits that I have had for at least 20 years and I haven't got around to finishing even one. Just too easy to grab something that I can take to the club and run for next to nothing and if it gets messed up so what.... Personally, I wouldn't let that model out of my sight for even one hour. With the possible exception of a museum Director guaranteeing me an arm and a leg and at least a years income if anything happened to it. It is a beauty. And, if you ever do get around our area I would love to see it up close and personal. My Doc won't allow travel anymore, says it is too risky so my days of bumming around the country are long, long gone. Thank you for sharing it with us. Truthfully, I didn't think that I would ever actually see one in the finished state. I started modeling in 1946 and yours is the first finished model that I have seen. Just too beautiful. I am looking forward to the new brass edition though. I know that George has loved the loco as long as I have so I expect it to be as near perfect as experienced brass builders can make it. Shucks, I might even find a way to pay for one of the new brass models. Jake Bechtel On 4/12/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > Don't think my wife would approve of that Jake. > > Just guessing however... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:05 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: PL Crusader > > > > Sean, > Is there any way that you could arrange a "tour of Northeast > Alabama", specifically the GAdsden, AL region during our annual show > on April 21st. I have to be honest though, if it was mine there is no > way I would send it off across the country to someone that I don't > know. But it really would look swell on the CoosaValleyModelRailroad > dot com, in the Hardin Cultural Arts Center. > Maybe it could be arranged for some future date? > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19007	From: Jay	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Broader Question on Walthers Doodlebugs -- Re: Walthers (old) Doodl

Hi Denny, Thanks for posting that photo. That is the last power truck Walthers used for its gas electrics and was manufactured of brass in Japan; it came with coined brass sideframes as well; available from the mid 1960's to end of production circa mid 1980's. They were sold a reasonable prices in the beginning, about $11.50, but by the time of the 50th Anniversary catalog in 1982, they were about 5-6 times the original price, the result of the double digit inflation that some of us remember. Interesting information on the wear characteristics, I suppose that many of the imported Suydam and similar traction cars might have been subject to the same wear, as their drive trruck were set up in a similar manner. Today, many of those traction modelers have upgraded with PDT's. but for us vintage guys, there seem to be plenty of old open-frame motors around when folkd went to double insulated can motors for DCC and just simple upgrades. BTW, I need one of those Walthers double knurled motor pulleys to complete a powered Walthers PRR MU car, if anyone has one. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > If you go to the last image in my CWRailman photo album you will see one > of the power units for the Gas Electrics you guys have been discussing. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list> > > I thought this was a bullet proof unit but some long term running by > friends who have these units in operation has indicated the load placed > on the motor shaft causes wear of the front motor bearing. > > In the original LaBelle Gas Electric powered kits they supplied a > bracket that holds the motor and places a load bearing, bearing surface > between the motor and the pulley so the tensions of the bands and weight > of the shaft mounted LARGE flywheel does not wear out the motor bearing > itself. I have two of the Labelle power units in service for over 30 > years and they have worked well with no wear on the motor itself. ( > DISCLAIMER! One motor has been replaced for other reasons though.) > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > On 4/10/2012 8:17 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > > > I think your zip code date is a major help in narrowing the date. > > > > > > When did Walthers change over to embossing rivets in the kit > car-sides? > > > > > > The image of the kit has a different instruction page from the 1939 > dated instructions for the non-rivet kit. > > > > > > This would put the yellow/blue box kits somewhere near the rivet > detail change-over; somewhere between 1939 and 1963. > > > > > > I think someone has posted the rivet detail change date in this list > before. > > > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:06 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> Don't know if this is of any help but the Walthers instruction > sheet Mike posted would have been printed somewhere from 1963 (start of > Zip Codes) and 1969 (Walthers moved from the 53202 Zip. > > > > > > > > Definitely pre 1959, because that's when they changed over to the > > "Silver Anniversary" kits, what I call "phase III" of the metal sided > > cars. I think the rivets probably date to late 40's, early 50's. > > > > Don > > > > -- > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19008	From: takefive247	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

The color looks different then Mantua or Varney but I would like to see a close up if you would. Is it a photo like Merle discribed or is it scribed or embossed? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: > >    Hi Bill,      Here is a link to it. Not much in the way of pictures but I can post some if anyone would like. Thanks.  Lon >   > http://www.ebay.com/itm/140733655869?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > ________________________________ > From: takefive247 <townline58@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:25 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID car #'s > > >   > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19009	From: Lon	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

Hi Bill, Here is a link to my photos in the Photos section of the Red Ball[?} Gerber's reefer # 1001. The sides give when you touch them like there is no wood behind them. I know little about these old cars so I make no claim that the seller was correct in the description. I apologize for the fuzzy photos. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/366969682/pic/1751548842/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > The color looks different then Mantua or Varney but I would like to see a close up if you would. Is it a photo like Merle discribed or is it scribed or embossed? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@> wrote: > > > >    Hi Bill,      Here is a link to it. Not much in the way of pictures but I can post some if anyone would like. Thanks.  Lon > >   > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/140733655869?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: takefive247 <townline58@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:25 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID car #'s > > > > > >   > > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19010	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID car #'s

Folks, one of the best forms of low cost entertainment that I am aware of is to read E Bay descriptions of vintage model train items and try to translate them into reality! John B. Allyn From: "takefive247" <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:31:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID  car  #'s   See how roomers get started. Read closed Ebay listing GERBER BABY FOOD pink & blue, two cars, O scale printed reefer sides Guy selling O scale cardboard sides talks about ad in Model railroader. Photo taken by John Allen of Varney Gerber Ref car #1001. Not only does he mix up the scale but my guess is the photo he mentions on the back of the 1953 Model Railroader is of the metal sides that Varney introduced in 1952. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19011	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

The Gerber car in those pictures looks suspiciously like a Comet kit. At least, Comet sides. I have a number of old Comet reefers and outside braced boxcars. The sides of the reefers all had printed on door hardware, done in the same "transparent" fashion as shown. For what it's worth, I had a spare set of Comet Baby Ruth candy reefer sides. Trimmed one plank from each end of the sides, and they then fit a Mantua brass car perfectly. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 4/12/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon <wlon17@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID Gerber's car #'s To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:51 PM   Hi Bill, Here is a link to my photos in the Photos section of the Red Ball[?} Gerber's reefer # 1001. The sides give when you touch them like there is no wood behind them. I know little about these old cars so I make no claim that the seller was correct in the description. I apologize for the fuzzy photos. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/366969682/pic/1751548842/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > The color looks different then Mantua or Varney but I would like to see a close up if you would. Is it a photo like Merle discribed or is it scribed or embossed? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@> wrote: > > > >    Hi Bill,      Here is a link to it. Not much in the way of pictures but I can post some if anyone would like. Thanks.  Lon > >   > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/140733655869?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: takefive247 <townline58@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:25 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID car #'s > > > > > >   > > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19012	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

OK, note to self here: Read the entire email thread. Just saw that the car in question has metal ice hatch components, among other things. Comet was all wood, except for the brakewheel and ladders. Could be a hybrid. Read what I said about putting Comet sides on Mantua brass bodies for another good example. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 4/13/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: ID Gerber's car #'s To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 13, 2012, 11:37 AM   The Gerber car in those pictures looks suspiciously like a Comet kit. At least, Comet sides. I have a number of old Comet reefers and outside braced boxcars. The sides of the reefers all had printed on door hardware, done in the same "transparent" fashion as shown. For what it's worth, I had a spare set of Comet Baby Ruth candy reefer sides. Trimmed one plank from each end of the sides, and they then fit a Mantua brass car perfectly. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 4/12/12, Lon <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon <wlon17@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID Gerber's car #'s To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 11:51 PM   Hi Bill, Here is a link to my photos in the Photos section of the Red Ball[?} Gerber's reefer # 1001. The sides give when you touch them like there is no wood behind them. I know little about these old cars so I make no claim that the seller was correct in the description. I apologize for the fuzzy photos. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/366969682/pic/1751548842/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > The color looks different then Mantua or Varney but I would like to see a close up if you would. Is it a photo like Merle discribed or is it scribed or embossed? > > Bill > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@> wrote: > > > >    Hi Bill,      Here is a link to it. Not much in the way of pictures but I can post some if anyone would like. Thanks.  Lon > >   > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/140733655869?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: takefive247 <townline58@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:25 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID car #'s > > > > > >   > > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19013	From: takefive247	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

Lon, That now looks more like the Mantua colors and artwork but the car itself is something else. According to Dave Spanagel in his book, Varney made kits for some cars that did not have the wood sides, just the cardboard . They did use copies of illustrations in Model Railroader as did Red Ball. Mantua sold the paper/cardboard sides so So we could have any number of combinations. But the more we know etc. etc. Thanks for posting the photos. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Bill, Here is a link to my photos in the Photos section of the Red Ball[?} Gerber's reefer # 1001. The sides give when you touch them like there is no wood behind them. I know little about these old cars so I make no claim that the seller was correct in the description. I apologize for the fuzzy photos. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/366969682/pic/1751548842/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@> wrote: > > > > The color looks different then Mantua or Varney but I would like to see a close up if you would. Is it a photo like Merle discribed or is it scribed or embossed? > > > > Bill > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > >    Hi Bill,      Here is a link to it. Not much in the way of pictures but I can post some if anyone would like. Thanks.  Lon > > >   > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/140733655869?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: takefive247 <townline58@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:25 AM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID car #'s > > > > > > > > >   > > > Lon, I didn't see that. What item was it? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, I just bought a Gerber 1001 on ebay. the seller stated it was a Red Ball kit built car. It has what I believe to be card sides, metal ends, and cast metal hatches and bases for the hatches. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Wright <wmewrght@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have just uploaded photos of the 5 Gerber cars I have to "Boomer > > > > > Bill's cars" album. Three are #1001, 1 is #1014, and 1 is #4603. > > > > > > > > > > One is obviously a Train Miniature, one is a Varney metal side (plastic > > > > > ladder). I have identified one as a Lehigh with cardboard sides. #1014 > > > > > is cardboard side (unknown mfr) and #4603 has metal sides (unknown) - > > > > > metal ladder. > > > > > > > > > > Bill Wright > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19014	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

H'lo All...late again, apologies...this week I've been swanning around the autumnal R. Murray with 40 undergrad f/w ecology students, my annual 'rent' for space in my dept. I'm past the 2 a.m. campfire singalongs, though....   A belated post of the Gerber card sides in Dave Spanagel's listing. Am not familiar with 'Findex'. nor with Lehigh in card sides...I've seen them in plastic. I note also that Dave had a couple of 'unkown' Gerber sides.   The sequence is the row number in Dave's Excel sheet, the manufacturer, card type, AAR designation, road, road #, colour, logo-unique, car length, unique characteristics.   428 REDBALL SVS20\13 EC RA G.S.V.X. 1000 BLU/WHBLU ANIMALS, STRAINED 40 S, NO DIM. DATA OR #, MAYBE MISTAKE   429 FINDEX? EC RA G.S.V.X. 1001 BLU/WHGERBER'S STRAINED 42 WS, VEGETABLES(NO GERBER PRODUCTS CO. IN UL)   430 LEHIGH EC RA G.S.V.X. 1001 BLU/WH Gerber' s Strained Ve 42 WS, Vegtables, It, DARK BLUE, LT BLUE & WHITE CAPY70000   431 MANTUA #9430 ES RA G.S.V.X. 1001 BLU/WHGERBER'S FOODS 40 WS, GERBER PRODUCT CO. FREMONTMICH UL   432 REDBALL SVS19\13 EC RA G.S.V.X. 1002 BLU/WHBLU ANIMALS, STRAINE D 42 WS, VEGTABLES, HAS DIM. DATA   433 REDBALL EC RA G.S.V.X. 1003 BLWHBL GERBERS PRODUCTSCO. 42 S, GERBER'S STRAINED VEGETABLES IN WHITE, SILVER DOORS   434 UNK lJNK EC RA G.S.V.X. 1003 B/W/B GERBER'S STRAINED 40 S, "GERBERS PRODUCTS CO. FREMONTMICH" UL   435 UNK UNK EC RA G.S.V.X. 1012 B/W/B GERBERS STRAINED 40 S, "GERBERS PRODUCTS CO. FREMONT MI   More grist!   Chrs, Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19015	From: takefive247	Date: 4/14/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

Russ, What do the letters for card type stand for? Bill G. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > H'lo All...late again, apologies...this week I've been swanning around the autumnal R. Murray with 40 undergrad f/w ecology students, my annual 'rent' for space in my dept. I'm past the 2 a.m. campfire singalongs, though.... >   > A belated post of the Gerber card sides in Dave Spanagel's listing. Am not familiar with 'Findex'. nor with Lehigh in card sides...I've seen them in plastic. I note also that Dave had a couple of 'unkown' Gerber sides. >   > The sequence is the row number in Dave's Excel sheet, the manufacturer, card type, AAR designation, road, road #, colour, logo-unique, car length, unique characteristics. >   > 428 REDBALL SVS20\13 EC RA G.S.V.X. 1000 BLU/WHBLU ANIMALS, STRAINED 40 S, NO DIM. DATA OR #, MAYBE MISTAKE >   > 429 FINDEX? EC RA G.S.V.X. 1001 BLU/WHGERBER'S STRAINED 42 WS, VEGETABLES(NO GERBER PRODUCTS CO. IN UL) >   > 430 LEHIGH EC RA G.S.V.X. 1001 BLU/WH Gerber' >   > 431 MANTUA #9430 ES RA G.S.V.X. 1001 BLU/WHGERBER'S FOODS 40 WS, GERBER PRODUCT CO. FREMONTMICH UL >   > 432 REDBALL SVS19\13 EC RA G.S.V.X. 1002 BLU/WHBLU ANIMALS, STRAINE D 42 WS, VEGTABLES, HAS DIM. DATA >   > 433 REDBALL EC RA G.S.V.X. 1003 BLWHBL GERBERS PRODUCTSCO. 42 S, GERBER'S STRAINED VEGETABLES IN WHITE, SILVER DOORS >   > 434 UNK lJNK EC RA G.S.V.X. 1003 B/W/B GERBER'S STRAINED 40 S, "GERBERS PRODUCTS CO. FREMONTMICH" UL >   > 435 UNK UNK EC RA G.S.V.X. 1012 B/W/B GERBERS STRAINED 40 S, "GERBERS PRODUCTS CO. FREMONT MI >   > More grist! >   > Chrs, > Russ > > ________________________________ > > >   > > >  s Strained Ve 42 WS, Vegtables, It, DARK BLUE, LT BLUE & WHITE CAPY70000 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19016	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/14/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

Steve, Comet never produced a Gerber reefer (or sides for one). Chuck H., I was fairly sure I did a spread sheet on Comet, which you put in the Files for me (which Steve could have checked out). If not, the Comet listing isn't too big to be listed here: Comet Models -- Refigerator Cars R-1 Pluto Water 4907 R-2 Baby Ruth 6201 R-3 Hormel Foods 803 R-4 MDT (NYC) 20683 R-5 Green Bay & Western 9353 R-6 ART 21594 Automobile Cars (40') R-7 MKT 67001 R-8 Wabash 47705 R-9 GTW 583699 R-10 T&P 61525 R-11 MP 79449 R-12 C&EI 1277 Flat Cars R-13 L&N 24560 R-14 C&NW 42591 R-15 MILW 63613 That's the complete Comet Models list. Now, as for the Mantua Gerber reefer, this was first listed in the 1942 Mantua catalog (but not listed in the 1941 or previous Mantua catalogs); the 1942 Mantua catalog does not show a car side number for it, neither do the 1945 or 1947 Mantua catalogs, which continued this car after the War. The 1948 Mantua Catalog & Handbook, and the 1953 Mantua Cyclopedia, lists the Gerber reefer as catalog # 9430 and illustrates its photo as having car side number 1001. The Mantua Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer (catalog # 9419, as per the 1948 Catalog & Handbook and the 1953 Cyclopedia) first appears in the 1941 catalog and is continued post -War though 1953 with the same car side number 208 being shown.in all Mantua catalogs it appears in. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19018	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/14/2012
Subject: Exacta and Central Lines

The owner of the Exacta & Central Lines tooling and inventory that I became acquainted with in the early '60s was Ray Waller, a noted O gauge custom locomotive builder in the Bay Area, whose fine model work was critically acclaimed as early as May 1941.  At the time I knew him, his shop was in Mountain View, then in the heart of the agricultural Santa Clara Valley, but now the epicenter of Silicon Valley.   To my knowledge he was the last owner. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19019	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

Yes Ray and it has been in the file section since July of 2009.  It includes the color of the model as well as the info below.  I will revise the header info soon. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 10:25 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: ID Gerber's car #'s     Steve, Comet never produced a Gerber reefer (or sides for one). Chuck H., I was fairly sure I did a spread sheet on Comet, which you put in the Files for me (which Steve could have checked out). If not, the Comet listing isn't too big to be listed here: Comet Models -- Refigerator Cars R-1 Pluto Water 4907 R-2 Baby Ruth 6201 R-3 Hormel Foods 803 R-4 MDT (NYC) 20683 R-5 Green Bay & Western 9353 R-6 ART 21594 Automobile Cars (40') R-7 MKT 67001 R-8 Wabash 47705 R-9 GTW 583699 R-10 T&P 61525 R-11 MP 79449 R-12 C&EI 1277 Flat Cars R-13 L&N 24560 R-14 C&NW 42591 R-15 MILW 63613 That's the complete Comet Models list. Now, as for the Mantua Gerber reefer, this was first listed in the 1942 Mantua catalog (but not listed in the 1941 or previous Mantua catalogs); the 1942 Mantua catalog does not show a car side number for it, neither do the 1945 or 1947 Mantua catalogs, which continued this car after the War. The 1948 Mantua Catalog & Handbook, and the 1953 Mantua Cyclopedia, lists the Gerber reefer as catalog # 9430 and illustrates its photo as having car side number 1001. The Mantua Rath's Black Hawk Ham reefer (catalog # 9419, as per the 1948 Catalog & Handbook and the 1953 Cyclopedia) first appears in the 1941 catalog and is continued post -War though 1953 with the same car side number 208 being shown.in all Mantua catalogs it appears in. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19020	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

> > Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my > train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not > and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. > > > OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to > see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of > dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans > and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful > you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all > the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem > is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a > local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med > ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains > away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest > pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. > > I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to > live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19021	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Jim,   I hope they find the problem this time and can get you on the mend.  Please hang in there, many do hope for your recovery.  And good luck to you with this.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 11:56 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wish me luck     > > Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my > train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not > and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. > > > OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to > see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of > dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans > and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful > you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all > the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem > is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a > local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med > ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains > away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest > pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. > > I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to > live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19022	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Dear Jim, know that you are in our prayers. I spent 25 yearspracticing Chiropractic and what we don't know is much greater than what we do know. I believe wholeheartedly in a omnipotent creator who does know the answers. I pray that the answers will be revealed and all the help that you need will be granted. I give thanks every day for the "old time" Osteopath who had a light bulb turn on and point him to a treatment I received back in 1954 - it opened the door to getting rid of problems that had plagued me for over 30 years. I pray that some strong willed Doctor listens to his guide and finds your problem. God Bless you. Jake Bechtel ">> OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to >> see if he can figure out my problem. "

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19023	From: Chris B	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Jim,  Here's hoping your care team has all the dedication to restoring operation of vintage drive systems that you do! very best wishes for your situation, Here's all the luck in the world! Chris B. From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 11:56 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wish me luck   > > Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my > train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not > and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. > > > OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to > see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of > dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans > and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful > you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all > the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem > is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a > local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med > ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains > away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest > pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. > > I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to > live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19024	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

On 4/15/2012 10:56 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > >> Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my >> train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not >> and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. >> >> >> OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to >> see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of >> dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans >> and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful >> you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all >> the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem >> is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a >> local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med >> ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains >> away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest >> pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. >> >> I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to >> live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). >> >> >> Jim H > You're in our prayers and I hope we see you back sooner rather than later. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19025	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Jim, Not that I want to invade privacy or anything, but since you've brought your medical difficulties to the attention of all, I have to ask a question that you may have answered before (as some of us are not up to date)--where does it hurt? Art W       In a message dated 4/15/2012 1:40:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, don.dellmann@... writes: On 4/15/2012 10:56 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > >>                 Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my >> train projects for a period of  time  depending on operation or not >> and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. >> >> >>                   OFF topic.  Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to >> see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of >> dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test,  scans >> and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful >> you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all >> the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem >> is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a >> local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med >> ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains >> away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest >> pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. >> >>          I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to >> live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). >> >> >> Jim H > You're in our prayers and I hope we see you back sooner rather than later. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19026	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Jim,   Have faith that you will come across the right doctor/solution one of these days like Jake and myself have.I have a disabling health problem caused from trauma in 70's and after six years(95-01) and 7 specialists, I found one who was aggressive enough to make sure that when he refered me somewhere for testing I was seen in a few days not weeks to months unlike the other doctors I'd seen,I feel the difference with him was he didn't let his ego get in the way when he didn't know something(good ethics) and sent me somewhere that was better qualified(rather than shove pills at me )even if it meant he would be losing a patient,I was hospitalized for observation at stanford for a week with unrelated symptoms resident doctors team diagnosed problems in a couple days,and I started  feeling better within the week.        Alan   From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: wish me luck   Dear Jim, know that you are in our prayers. I spent 25 yearspracticing Chiropractic and what we don't know is much greater than what we do know. I believe wholeheartedly in a omnipotent creator who does know the answers. I pray that the answers will be revealed and all the help that you need will be granted. I give thanks every day for the "old time" Osteopath who had a light bulb turn on and point him to a treatment I received back in 1954 - it opened the door to getting rid of problems that had plagued me for over 30 years. I pray that some strong willed Doctor listens to his guide and finds your problem. God Bless you. Jake Bechtel ">> OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to >> see if he can figure out my problem. "

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19027	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Last two shots

Attachments : IMG_7889.JPG IMG_7886.JPG I took these last two shots of where my Walthers HH600 is now. No more will be done till I know where I stand. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19028	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Help identify

I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19029	From: Charlie	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Hi Jim   All the best for this week.  Hope all turns out well.    Google "Morgellons" and see if this is what you may have.  Lots of symptoms some you do not see.   Charlie Harris From: Jim Heckard Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 3:56 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wish me luck   > > Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my > train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not > and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. > > > OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to > see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of > dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans > and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful > you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all > the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem > is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a > local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med > ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains > away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest > pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. > > I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to > live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19030	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

It looks like an engine made in Japan by New One and sold in America either by HOTCO ( H O TRAIN CO of Philly ) but looks more like the New One 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard sold by Polks Aristo Craft. But engines very similar in looks. Called a Mother Hubbard because of placement of the cab over the boiler. Notice the middle window of your third picture is wider. Some will just say Camelback but there is a difference. Tender needed to decide if HOTCO / General Hobbies Inc. or Aristo Craft/ Polks but both still made by New One / Japan.         As I look at the " pilot " I think it is a model of a piston operating snow plow where the engine crew could put out either side to throw snow to one side or the other ( depending on snow depth at that point ) or could open both sides to get a bigger path at once. See how my opinion holds up.                                                                Jim H On 4/15/2012 7:55 PM, pe700@... wrote:   I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19031	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

Jim,   Don’t know about that plow but I think you got the engine pegged.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help identify            It looks like an engine made in Japan by New One and sold in America either by HOTCO ( H O TRAIN CO of Philly ) but looks more like the New One 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard sold by Polks Aristo Craft. But engines very similar in looks. Called a Mother Hubbard because of placement of the cab over the boiler. Notice the middle window of your third picture is wider. Some will just say Camelback but there is a difference. Tender needed to decide if HOTCO / General Hobbies Inc. or Aristo Craft/ Polks but both still made by New One / Japan.         As I look at the " pilot " I think it is a model of a piston operating snow plow where the engine crew could put out either side to throw snow to one side or the other ( depending on snow depth at that point ) or could open both sides to get a bigger path at once. See how my opinion holds up.                                                                Jim H On 4/15/2012 7:55 PM, pe700@... wrote:   I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19032	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

Thanks Jim! Even though I don't know you presonally, I wish you the best on your upcoming health challenge. Been there, too. My thoughts and best wishes to you! Hope to see more of your train work soon! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > It looks like an engine made in Japan by New One and sold in > America either by HOTCO ( H O TRAIN CO of Philly ) but looks more like > the New One 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard sold by Polks Aristo Craft. But engines > very similar in looks. Called a Mother Hubbard because of placement of > the cab over the boiler. Notice the middle window of your third picture > is wider. Some will just say Camelback but there is a difference. Tender > needed to decide if HOTCO / General Hobbies Inc. or Aristo Craft/ Polks > but both still made by New One / Japan. > > > As I look at the " pilot " I think it is a model of a piston > operating snow plow where the engine crew could put out either side to > throw snow to one side or the other ( depending on snow depth at that > point ) or could open both sides to get a bigger path at once. See how > my opinion holds up. > > Jim H > > > > > On 4/15/2012 7:55 PM, pe700@... wrote: > > > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for > > this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass > > like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua > > or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I > > don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? > > A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, > > doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off > > when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19033	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

Motor is definitely Japanese, reminds of the motor in my die cast Tenshodo 0-6-0T, which supports the New One diagnosis.  Suspect that the snowplow was something added by a previous owner. John B. Allyn From: pe700@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:12:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Help identify   Thanks Jim! Even though I don't know you presonally, I wish you the best on your upcoming health challenge. Been there, too. My thoughts and best wishes to you! Hope to see more of your train work soon! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > It looks like an engine made in Japan by New One and sold in > America either by HOTCO ( H O TRAIN CO of Philly ) but looks more like > the New One 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard sold by Polks Aristo Craft. But engines > very similar in looks. Called a Mother Hubbard because of placement of > the cab over the boiler. Notice the middle window of your third picture > is wider. Some will just say Camelback but there is a difference. Tender > needed to decide if HOTCO / General Hobbies Inc. or Aristo Craft/ Polks > but both still made by New One / Japan. > > > As I look at the " pilot " I think it is a model of a piston > operating snow plow where the engine crew could put out either side to > throw snow to one side or the other ( depending on snow depth at that > point ) or could open both sides to get a bigger path at once. See how > my opinion holds up. > > Jim H > > > > > On 4/15/2012 7:55 PM, pe700@... wrote: > > > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for > > this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass > > like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua > > or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I > > don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? > > A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, > > doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off > > when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19034	From: Jay	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Good luck, Jim! My prayers are with you as well, that they find the cause and are able to bring you the much deserved relief and good health. We have many more great models to find, diagnose, discuss and repair and I look forward to your quick return after Tuesday! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my > > train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not > > and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. > > > > > > OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to > > see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of > > dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans > > and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful > > you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all > > the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem > > is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a > > local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med > > ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains > > away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest > > pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. > > > > I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to > > live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19035	From: Jay	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Last two shots

Hi Jim H., Its amazing transformation from the condition you purchased it in. Those railings look great! BTW, DL&W - the Lackawanna who had most of the first Alco HH600's with the flat fronts, designated the cab end as the engine's front. I'm not sure how the Lehigh Vally designated theirs. Here's links to two photos of them from the Fallen Flags website of George Elwood, both from the DL&W, one with hood removed. Both photos show the prototype step arrangements. W. Jay W. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/dlw406agd.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/dlw403.jpg --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I took these last two shots of where my Walthers HH600 is now. No > more will be done till I know where I stand. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19036	From: Jay	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

Hi "pe700" I like the plow modification to the "New One" as it is plausibile - an adjustable plow on a small yard switcher to clear those hard to manage tight spots in the yard. The plow has nice detail, too. Good find at a good price. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, pe700@... wrote: > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19037	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID Gerber's car #'s

Chuck, As there's a lot of info -- including many car side number of many manufacturers -- in the files, it seems that these files are way under used when it's seen that members here still offer questions on the subject or just appear perplexed. But, then, I think you already stated that they're under utilized. I guess it's still a benefit for those who think of using it. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19038	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

Thanks John for the info! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Motor is definitely Japanese, reminds of the motor in my die cast Tenshodo 0-6-0T, which supports the New One diagnosis. Suspect that the snowplow was something added by a previous owner. > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: pe700@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:12:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Help identify > > > > > > > Thanks Jim! Even though I don't know you presonally, I wish you the > best on your upcoming health challenge. Been there, too. My thoughts > and best wishes to you! Hope to see more of your train work soon! > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > It looks like an engine made in Japan by New One and sold in > > America either by HOTCO ( H O TRAIN CO of Philly ) but looks more like > > the New One 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard sold by Polks Aristo Craft. But engines > > very similar in looks. Called a Mother Hubbard because of placement of > > the cab over the boiler. Notice the middle window of your third picture > > is wider. Some will just say Camelback but there is a difference. Tender > > needed to decide if HOTCO / General Hobbies Inc. or Aristo Craft/ Polks > > but both still made by New One / Japan. > > > > > > As I look at the " pilot " I think it is a model of a piston > > operating snow plow where the engine crew could put out either side to > > throw snow to one side or the other ( depending on snow depth at that > > point ) or could open both sides to get a bigger path at once. See how > > my opinion holds up. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > On 4/15/2012 7:55 PM, pe700@ wrote: > > > > > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for > > > this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass > > > like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua > > > or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I > > > don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? > > > A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, > > > doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off > > > when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19039	From: pe700@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

Thanks Jay! I like the plow despite it not being the original. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi "pe700" I like the plow modification to the "New One" as it is plausibile - an adjustable plow on a small yard switcher to clear those hard to manage tight spots in the yard. The plow has nice detail, too. Good find at a good price. W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, pe700@ wrote: > > > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19040	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

Jim Hope you find the trick this time. Been tough reading that you've been down and out. If you don't get relief this time, I have some ideas for you, which I can share off line. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19041	From: RalphB	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Varney vs Bowser tender

I picked up a Bowser NYC K-11 Pacific at a train show yesterday. It was marked "as is," but this is not necessarily a bad thing since, at the price I paid, this would be a bargain if all I ever do is display it. I put it on the track this evening and it doesn't run; I'll pull it apart tomorrow to see what I can find. One thing I'll find out is which version I have, which will end the confusion of the plastic baggie it came in which has directions for mid- and late-version motors. I'll write more after I take it apart. For now, though, my question is about the tender; except for the trucks, the K-11 tender appears to be a virtual duplicate of the tender used by Varney for its "Casey Jones" 4-6-0 and "Old Lady" 2-8-0. Did one of these companies produce tenders for the other? The cool part is that this is my favorite tender design; I have one that came with the "Casey Jones" that I picked up last last year, and I bought another to put behind the AHM/Mehano Pacific that I bought as a basket case about 15 or 20 years ago (haven't finished that project, yet). Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19042	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender

Bower bought some Varney products and dies and produced some of their items including the Old Lady and Casey Jones.  They did re-engineer the loco frames for the latest of their own production but the tenders could still be the same or very close.  The original of that tender was cast zamac...  Later it was plastic with a cast frame/bottom. Happy railroading...  Don Staton in Virginia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 4/16/2012 9:31 PM, RalphB wrote:   I picked up a Bowser NYC K-11 Pacific at a train show yesterday. It was marked "as is," but this is not necessarily a bad thing since, at the price I paid, this would be a bargain if all I ever do is display it. I put it on the track this evening and it doesn't run; I'll pull it apart tomorrow to see what I can find. One thing I'll find out is which version I have, which will end the confusion of the plastic baggie it came in which has directions for mid- and late-version motors. I'll write more after I take it apart. For now, though, my question is about the tender; except for the trucks, the K-11 tender appears to be a virtual duplicate of the tender used by Varney for its "Casey Jones" 4-6-0 and "Old Lady" 2-8-0. Did one of these companies produce tenders for the other? The cool part is that this is my favorite tender design; I have one that came with the "Casey Jones" that I picked up last last year, and I bought another to put behind the AHM/Mehano Pacific that I bought as a basket case about 15 or 20 years ago (haven't finished that project, yet). Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19043	From: al45390	Date: 4/16/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender

Ralph, I bought one new in the '60's, and it came without tender. The only tenders that Bowser had back then were their distinctively PRR design tenders. A few years later I bought a PFM import brass clear-vision tender that actually looked good, if not very prototypical, behind the K-11. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > I picked up a Bowser NYC K-11 Pacific at a train show yesterday. It was marked "as is," but this is not necessarily a bad thing since, at the price I paid, this would be a bargain if all I ever do is display it. I put it on the track this evening and it doesn't run; I'll pull it apart tomorrow to see what I can find. One thing I'll find out is which version I have, which will end the confusion of the plastic baggie it came in which has directions for mid- and late-version motors. I'll write more after I take it apart. > > For now, though, my question is about the tender; except for the trucks, the K-11 tender appears to be a virtual duplicate of the tender used by Varney for its "Casey Jones" 4-6-0 and "Old Lady" 2-8-0. Did one of these companies produce tenders for the other? The cool part is that this is my favorite tender design; I have one that came with the "Casey Jones" that I picked up last last year, and I bought another to put behind the AHM/Mehano Pacific that I bought as a basket case about 15 or 20 years ago (haven't finished that project, yet). > > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19044	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender

Bowser originally started in the late 1940's in California.  In the early 60's the English family bought the line, keeping the Bowser name.  The English family then bought Penn Line (the source of the PRR tenders), Pennsylvania Scale Models (who made trolleys, interurbans, and a F-M Trainmaster or Baby Trainmaster), and part of the Varney line (the 2-8-0, the 4-6-0, the Dockside, and the Aerotrain -- I'm not sure whether these were sold as kits or whether English just bought the parts line).    In the 1940's Bowser made three engines -- a Mountain that was inexplicably built in HO guage but in 1/96 scale, the K-11 Pacific, and a UP Challenger.  The only tender that they made was a semi-Vanderbilt for the Challenger.  Varney had a tender that they sold with the 2-8-0 and the 4-6-0 which closely matched a common tender NYC for the K-11 but bore no resemblance whatsoever to any SP prototypes, which was sort of the prototype for the Varney 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 (legend has it that when Mantua came out with a Reading 2-8-0 at about the same time he did, Gordon Varney vowed never to follow a specific prototype).   I can't remember ever seeing a die cast version of the Varney tender though it's not beyond the realm of possibility.    Walter, the clear vision tender is not unprototypical -- the K-11 was used for yard switching.  I have a vague recollection that Stauffer has a photgraph of one so equipped in one of his books.  I'll check tonight if I can tear myself away from the Preds - Wings hockey game. John B. Allyn From: "al45390" <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:34:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney vs Bowser tender   Ralph, I bought one new in the '60's, and it came without tender. The only tenders that Bowser had back then were their distinctively PRR design tenders. A few years later I bought a PFM import brass clear-vision tender that actually looked good, if not very prototypical, behind the K-11. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > I picked up a Bowser NYC K-11 Pacific at a train show yesterday. It was marked "as is," but this is not necessarily a bad thing since, at the price I paid, this would be a bargain if all I ever do is display it. I put it on the track this evening and it doesn't run; I'll pull it apart tomorrow to see what I can find. One thing I'll find out is which version I have, which will end the confusion of the plastic baggie it came in which has directions for mid- and late-version motors. I'll write more after I take it apart. > > For now, though, my question is about the tender; except for the trucks, the K-11 tender appears to be a virtual duplicate of the tender used by Varney for its "Casey Jones" 4-6-0 and "Old Lady" 2-8-0. Did one of these companies produce tenders for the other? The cool part is that this is my favorite tender design; I have one that came with the "Casey Jones" that I picked up last last year, and I bought another to put behind the AHM/Mehano Pacific that I bought as a basket case about 15 or 20 years ago (haven't finished that project, yet). > > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19045	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

I sold two of these on eBay this past Fall. They were probably started under the "New One" label, but all the ones I have seen and owned were in AristoCraft boxes. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, pe700@... wrote: > > Thanks Jay! I like the plow despite it not being the original. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi "pe700" I like the plow modification to the "New One" as it is plausibile - an adjustable plow on a small yard switcher to clear those hard to manage tight spots in the yard. The plow has nice detail, too. Good find at a good price. W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, pe700@ wrote: > > > > > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19046	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Help identify

I believe that Aristo Craft (Polk's in New York) was the sole outlet for New One models, at least for a time.  Hence the name on the box.    New One didn't last very long.  I never owned one, but they had quality problems and were quite undetailed.  This hurt tem when compared to the Japanese brass imports that were becoming more and more common at the time. John B. Allyn From: "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 8:56:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Help identify   I sold two of these on eBay this past Fall. They were probably started under the "New One" label, but all the ones I have seen and owned were in AristoCraft boxes. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, pe700@... wrote: > > Thanks Jay! I like the plow despite it not being the original. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi "pe700" I like the plow modification to the "New One" as it is plausibile - an adjustable plow on a small yard switcher to clear those hard to manage tight spots in the yard. The plow has nice detail, too. Good find at a good price. W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, pe700@ wrote: > > > > > > I put 4 pictures in an Album called "Help Identify". I paid $15 for this all metal Camelback switcher without the tender with some brass like the dome, stack, light, cow catcher, etc. It doesn't say Mantua or anything on it that is obvious. I plan to strip the paint but I don't know if the manufacturer's name would be under the paint at all? A friend of mine who has been in the hobby, allot longer than I, doesn't think this is the orignal cow catcher. The catcher was off when I bought it. Any help is appreciated! > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19047	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender

Thanks, John, I had forgotten that Bowser had that Vandy tender, probably because it was not  worth considering for a NYC K-11.  I'm amazed that by pure chance I did get a believable tender. And, as I said, the clear-vision tender looked good with the K-11.  On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:48 AM, <john.allyn@...> wrote:   Bowser originally started in the late 1940's in California.  In the early 60's the English family bought the line, keeping the Bowser name.  The English family then bought Penn Line (the source of the PRR tenders), Pennsylvania Scale Models (who made trolleys, interurbans, and a F-M Trainmaster or Baby Trainmaster), and part of the Varney line (the 2-8-0, the 4-6-0, the Dockside, and the Aerotrain -- I'm not sure whether these were sold as kits or whether English just bought the parts line).    In the 1940's Bowser made three engines -- a Mountain that was inexplicably built in HO guage but in 1/96 scale, the K-11 Pacific, and a UP Challenger.  The only tender that they made was a semi-Vanderbilt for the Challenger.  Varney had a tender that they sold with the 2-8-0 and the 4-6-0 which closely matched a common tender NYC for the K-11 but bore no resemblance whatsoever to any SP prototypes, which was sort of the prototype for the Varney 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 (legend has it that when Mantua came out with a Reading 2-8-0 at about the same time he did, Gordon Varney vowed never to follow a specific prototype).   I can't remember ever seeing a die cast version of the Varney tender though it's not beyond the realm of possibility.    Walter, the clear vision tender is not unprototypical -- the K-11 was used for yard switching.  I have a vague recollection that Stauffer has a photgraph of one so equipped in one of his books.  I'll check tonight if I can tear myself away from the Preds - Wings hockey game. John B. Allyn From: "al45390" <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:34:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney vs Bowser tender   Ralph, I bought one new in the '60's, and it came without tender. The only tenders that Bowser had back then were their distinctively PRR design tenders. A few years later I bought a PFM import brass clear-vision tender that actually looked good, if not very prototypical, behind the K-11. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > I picked up a Bowser NYC K-11 Pacific at a train show yesterday. It was marked "as is," but this is not necessarily a bad thing since, at the price I paid, this would be a bargain if all I ever do is display it. I put it on the track this evening and it doesn't run; I'll pull it apart tomorrow to see what I can find. One thing I'll find out is which version I have, which will end the confusion of the plastic baggie it came in which has directions for mid- and late-version motors. I'll write more after I take it apart. > > For now, though, my question is about the tender; except for the trucks, the K-11 tender appears to be a virtual duplicate of the tender used by Varney for its "Casey Jones" 4-6-0 and "Old Lady" 2-8-0. Did one of these companies produce tenders for the other? The cool part is that this is my favorite tender design; I have one that came with the "Casey Jones" that I picked up last last year, and I bought another to put behind the AHM/Mehano Pacific that I bought as a basket case about 15 or 20 years ago (haven't finished that project, yet). > > Ralph Balfoort > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19048	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: wish me luck

I know the battle ground you are facing so very well.  Be persistent.  Keep doing the best you can.  Even change doctors if necessary.  I had to take my wife to many doctors before we found one who knew what to do for her...  The same with my daughter with a different problem.  For the past year I have had to see eight different doctors for two serious problems concerning my health before I found those who could really do me any good... So hang in there Jim, do the best you can and leave the rest to God or whomever else is responsible...  You are in the prayers of many of us.  We await better news in relation to you. Be greater blessed... Don Staton in VA. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- On 4/15/2012 11:56 AM, Jim Heckard wrote:   > > Due to medical problems I will be suspending work on my > train projects for a period of time depending on operation or not > and duration . I will still be reading emails till Tuesday. > > > OFF topic. Tuesday the 17th I go to the surgeon to > see if he can figure out my problem. On May 1 it will be a year of > dealing with what seems to be unknown. Have had so many test, scans > and you name it at a trauma center that they keep saying be thankful > you have know cancer or blockages. I keep telling them that with all > the studies they have done they know everything I don't have. Problem > is they have know idea what I do have. I've been through my PCP, a > local GI Doctor, now the Geisinger trauma center ( since I have my med > ins with them ). I seem to be running out of options as the $$$ drains > away with no results. Worst part of the whole situation the strongest > pain med I can take is Tylenol X-tra strength. > > I hope they can soon pinpoint the problem. This is no way to > live and quality of life suffering ( chronic pain 24/7 is debilitating). > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19049	From: tom leen	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Jim, Wishing you the best.  Get well soon.  We're all praying for you. Tom Leen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19050	From: RalphB	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Allyn wrote: > > Varney had a tender that they sold with the 2-8-0 and the 4-6-0 which closely matched a common tender NYC for the K-11 but bore no resemblance whatsoever to any SP prototypes, which was sort of the prototype for the Varney 2-8-0 and 4-6-0.... ---------------------------- The Varney tender is similar to the tenders generally used behind the K-11s, but it's a bit longer. The closest match on the Fallen Flags website shows the 9500 gallon/16 ton tender with truck centers about two feet less than the Varney tender. ---------------------------- > > I can't remember ever seeing a die cast version of the Varney tender though it's not beyond the realm of possibility.  ---------------------------- The tender I got with the K-11 is cast metal; the other two I have are plastic. ---------------------------- > > ...the clear vision tender is not unprototypical -- the K-11 was used for yard switching. ---------------------------- Several photos on the Fallen Flags website show the clear vision tenders behind K-11s. And now for the good news; my K-11 runs - well, at least on bench test. Now all I have to do is figure out why it wouldn't run when I put it on the track. It is the latest version with the DC-71 motor. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19051	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

On 4/17/2012 4:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > On 4/17/2012 2:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >> Saw the Surgeon and Gastroenterologist today. Finally a >> Diagnosis Levitor Ani Syndrome. This is a muscle group that >> supports behind the Colon and such ( I think they said ). No surgery >> will help. No narcotic drugs will alleviate pain. Not much will help. >> Got new pill called Skelaxin 3 times a day at 90 pills for $319. No >> group coverage on this new pill. Have to go to therapy for pelvic >> floor therapy and biofeedback. Must control all stress, nerves and >> anxiety. Ha Ha Ha Good luck with that. Told my wife we have to move >> to Hawaii for peace and quit >> >> >> >> Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19052	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

Jim, Sorry to hear about your difficulties. Not so sure Hawaii is the place to go. $319 would look like chicken feed there. . .   In a message dated 4/17/2012 4:25:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: On 4/17/2012 4:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > On 4/17/2012 2:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >>          Saw the Surgeon and Gastroenterologist today. Finally a >> Diagnosis    Levitor Ani Syndrome.    This is a muscle group that >> supports behind the Colon and such ( I think they said ).  No surgery >> will help. No narcotic drugs will alleviate pain. Not much will help. >> Got new pill called Skelaxin 3 times a day at 90 pills for $319.  No >> group coverage on this new pill. Have to go to therapy  for pelvic >> floor therapy and biofeedback. Must control all stress, nerves and >> anxiety. Ha Ha Ha  Good luck with that. Told my wife we have to move >> to Hawaii for peace and quit >> >> >>                                                                                                    >> Jim H > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19053	From: James Bartelt	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

Jim, You might want to check out Pfizers website on in regards to Skelaxin. They have a discount program for people that need help paying for their meds. In fact most of the major drug company's have discount cards for a lot of meds. I have procured these for my parents and it helps save them lots of $$$$ Check out the site here: http://www.pfizer.com/products/rx/rx_product_skelaxin.jsp -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html   On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   On 4/17/2012 4:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > On 4/17/2012 2:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >> Saw the Surgeon and Gastroenterologist today. Finally a >> Diagnosis Levitor Ani Syndrome. This is a muscle group that >> supports behind the Colon and such ( I think they said ). No surgery >> will help. No narcotic drugs will alleviate pain. Not much will help. >> Got new pill called Skelaxin 3 times a day at 90 pills for $319. No >> group coverage on this new pill. Have to go to therapy for pelvic >> floor therapy and biofeedback. Must control all stress, nerves and >> anxiety. Ha Ha Ha Good luck with that. Told my wife we have to move >> to Hawaii for peace and quit >> >> >> >> Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19054	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

Jim, I'm glad now they at least know what is going on, despite the news that not much will help. At least, as they said to avoid stress and anxiety, that knowing the diagnosis will relieve some stress anyway. On the other hand, it sounds like a good reason to spend time model railroading! Model railroading for medical reasons. Now if only insurance would cover that! Thanks, -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 4/17/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2012, 3:25 PM   On 4/17/2012 4:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > On 4/17/2012 2:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >> Saw the Surgeon and Gastroenterologist today. Finally a >> Diagnosis Levitor Ani Syndrome. This is a muscle group that >> supports behind the Colon and such ( I think they said ). No surgery >> will help. No narcotic drugs will alleviate pain. Not much will help. >> Got new pill called Skelaxin 3 times a day at 90 pills for $319. No >> group coverage on this new pill. Have to go to therapy for pelvic >> floor therapy and biofeedback. Must control all stress, nerves and >> anxiety. Ha Ha Ha Good luck with that. Told my wife we have to move >> to Hawaii for peace and quit >> >> >> >> Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19055	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

Jim, do the best you can with all of the less than great news.  Things do not always work the way they think it will.  Sometimes they can get pleasantly surprised also...  And do check on the possibility of free or discount meds.  Ask the prescribing doctor to assist with it. Be greater blessed...  Don Staton in VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 4/17/2012 4:25 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   On 4/17/2012 4:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > On 4/17/2012 2:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >> Saw the Surgeon and Gastroenterologist today. Finally a >> Diagnosis Levitor Ani Syndrome. This is a muscle group that >> supports behind the Colon and such ( I think they said ). No surgery >> will help. No narcotic drugs will alleviate pain. Not much will help. >> Got new pill called Skelaxin 3 times a day at 90 pills for $319. No >> group coverage on this new pill. Have to go to therapy for pelvic >> floor therapy and biofeedback. Must control all stress, nerves and >> anxiety. Ha Ha Ha Good luck with that. Told my wife we have to move >> to Hawaii for peace and quit >> >> >> >> Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19056	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

Hi Jim, Sorry to hear there's no surgical cure for this syndrome. I know we were all hoping for a better dignosis for you. Hopefully, the pelvic floor therapy will help in time. While not all medications have a less expensive counterpart, you might want to look into the possibility of a generic form of this medication. And then too, there are much less expensive medication outlets in Canada, but you'd need to find a legitimate one to make sure you're not just getting sugar pills. Hope you're feeling better soon. Best, Ray F. W, </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19057	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: Varney vs Bowser tender

One of the Stauffer books did have a picture of a K-11 with a clear vision tender.  The tender was a bit shorter than the Tenshodo model, and did not have the booster engine.  The coal bunker was also a foot or two higher.  This notwithstanding, this tender won't look out of place behind the Bowser model. John B. Allyn From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 2:29:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney vs Bowser tender   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Allyn wrote: > > Varney had a tender that they sold with the 2-8-0 and the 4-6-0 which closely matched a common tender NYC for the K-11 but bore no resemblance whatsoever to any SP prototypes, which was sort of the prototype for the Varney 2-8-0 and 4-6-0.... ---------------------------- The Varney tender is similar to the tenders generally used behind the K-11s, but it's a bit longer. The closest match on the Fallen Flags website shows the 9500 gallon/16 ton tender with truck centers about two feet less than the Varney tender. ---------------------------- > > I can't remember ever seeing a die cast version of the Varney tender though it's not beyond the realm of possibility.  ---------------------------- The tender I got with the K-11 is cast metal; the other two I have are plastic. ---------------------------- > > ...the clear vision tender is not unprototypical -- the K-11 was used for yard switching. ---------------------------- Several photos on the Fallen Flags website show the clear vision tenders behind K-11s. And now for the good news; my K-11 runs - well, at least on bench test. Now all I have to do is figure out why it wouldn't run when I put it on the track. It is the latest version with the DC-71 motor. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19058	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Somewhat Off-Topic But Ths is for Jim(and Possibly Others)

Jim, I get my prescripyions from Costco.   Example: I use Norvasc 10 mg. At the local druggist, it's over $200 for 90. From Canada, about $160. From Costco, just over $20. No charge for postage unless you need special services like overnight, etc.   No, I don't work for Costco, I'm just a happy customer.   Happy Modeling   Fred hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19059	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: Somewhat Off-Topic But this is for Jim(and Possibly Others)

Jim, I too hate to hear your situation. When constant pain was first mentioned it struck home as my wife has Fibromyalgia. (sp) She hurts almost every day of her life with little relief in sight. I have a good friend that requires several expensive prescriptions. He told me the other day they visited their regular doctor who knows their situation. The doctor sat down with their prescription list and pointed out best/cheapest places to get each. Came up with Walmart and, I think, Target. A lot of $4 fills from Walmart; maybe both places. Neither store was the best answer for all they needed; a mix of the two worked best for lowest expense. AND, they are now set up with mail delivery to boot. I have no connection with either store, in fact I greatly dislike Walmart. But when the chips are down......... Meanwhile I like your little brass diesel. I still pick up a vintage piece when I can afford it, but am not nearly up on things as some of you folks. I'd love to eventually get a Varney Super "xxxxx," pick any steam model, I wouldn't care. Funny how my tastes have changed. When I started out about 1955, I loved Mikes and didn't care for Pacifics. Now I enjoy each with a slight leaning to the Pacifics. Considering my wife's medical condition, if I didn't have my life-long railroad interests, I don't know what I'd do. Good luck; thinking of you, Dennis Thompson Odessa/Ritzville, E WA state At 09:18 AM 4/18/2012, you wrote: >Jim, I get my prescripyions from Costco. > >Example: I use Norvasc 10 mg. At the local >druggist, it's over $200 for 90. From Canada, >about $160. From Costco, just over $20. No >charge for postage unless you need special services like overnight, etc. > >No, I don't work for Costco, I'm just a happy customer. > >Happy Modeling >Fred hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19060	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Back to the RR

> > > I Thank everyone for their thoughts. It's a little hard to explain > the medication situation but some of what people suggested I am > researching or doing. > > So I say back to on topic and I intend to start "Working on the > Railroad ASAP" and continuing with my projects. > > > Hoping for all greens. Back to the trains PLEASE. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19061	From: rayzef	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Hi All Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm Thanks Ray Z Adelaide South Australia.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19062	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Some of the photos one needs to absolutely ascertain heritage are blurred, but: Varney, later General Models, later All-Nation, later Babbitt is what the heritage appears to be. The self-steering pilot truck is a giveaway, but that could have been added. General Models/All Nation tender trucks, tender floor and frame. Tender shell probably is a brass wrapper. Look for the drivers held to axles with round nuts with slots. You will need to make a tool from an old flat bladed screwdriver to check them on occasion. Should be an open frame motor. Dave > Hi All > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > Thanks > Ray Z > Adelaide > South Australia. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19063	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Not sure I'd have spent almost $260 for that, considering the gouging if it's shipping to Oz from the States. > Hi All > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > Thanks > Ray Z > Adelaide > South Australia. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19064	From: Jay	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Anyone get these 4 (sand?) cast FT's?

Hi All, Was anyone the lucky successful bidder on these 4 (A-B-B-A) cast FT shells about a week and a half ago? I'm curious, cast bronze or ? Any markings or numbers cast into them? eBay item number: 370601869780 As sometimes happens, I missed the bid closing time, and it figures, lol, they closed at an nice low price! Thanks, W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19065	From: Larry	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News

Jim, I'm no doctor, but can it be treated with alcohol? I recommend you take orally and apply liberally. Best therapy around... <www.therapytour.com>  Larry Miller III From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Diagnosis: Good News, Bad News On 4/17/2012 4:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > On 4/17/2012 2:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >>          Saw the Surgeon and Gastroenterologist today. Finally a >> Diagnosis    Levitor Ani Syndrome.    This is a muscle group that >> supports behind the Colon and such ( I think they said ).  No surgery >> will help. No narcotic drugs will alleviate pain. Not much will help. >> Got new pill called Skelaxin 3 times a day at 90 pills for $319.  No >> group coverage on this new pill. Have to go to therapy  for pelvic >> floor therapy and biofeedback. Must control all stress, nerves and >> anxiety. Ha Ha Ha  Good luck with that. Told my wife we have to move >> to Hawaii for peace and quit >> >> >>                                                                                                    >> Jim H > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19066	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Back to the RR

Jim, I really hope you are doing well today! To help get us back on track...That 1949 (split window) Sampson rail car I showed you showed up. It is complete in in really good shape! Thanks for showing it to us initially. I would not have known what it was or thought to get it otherwise. It is nice having a little piece of history in my collection. I will be mailing you the car on top. It is chrome plated and has the plastic/resin board base. I think it predated Hobbytown. maybe you know what it is. One side has moisture damage to the plating but the other side can be cleaned up for display purposes. Either way, it is yours if you want it. Here is the link to my flickr photo of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6947240852/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Back to the RR   > > > I Thank everyone for their thoughts. It's a little hard to explain > the medication situation but some of what people suggested I am > researching or doing. > > So I say back to on topic and I intend to start "Working on the > Railroad ASAP" and continuing with my projects. > > > Hoping for all greens. Back to the trains PLEASE. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19067	From: wdavis5069	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone get these 4 (sand?) cast FT's?

Do people deliberately post blurry pictures so you can't tell condition or identify an item? I have seen this before, the photo is so poor I am reluctant to bid. Just wondering, Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Was anyone the lucky successful bidder on these 4 (A-B-B-A) cast FT shells about a week and a half ago? > > I'm curious, cast bronze or ? Any markings or numbers cast into them? > > eBay item number: 370601869780 > > As sometimes happens, I missed the bid closing time, and it figures, lol, they closed at an nice low price! > > Thanks, W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19068	From: ablecynic	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Based on the drivers and what appears to be a screw slot in them it is most likely a Varney/All Nation 4-6-2 that has been given a rather nice scratchbuilt Great Northern superstructure. I have one of the All Nation 4-4-0s that shares some common components. The tender wrapper also appears to be scratchbuilt as the All Nation ones were plain. It looks like a nice piece to me and if it runs, that is a bonus. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rayzef" <rayzef@...> wrote: > > Hi All > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > Thanks > Ray Z > Adelaide > South Australia. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19069	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Back to the RR

Sean,       Glad you got that rail car. Could not have many be made. I have a question since you have it in hand. Is it Rubber Band Drive ( 2 rubber bands ) like my 1949 model. If the drive system is the same as pictured in hoseeker it will be hard to keep changing melted rubber basnds. You have to take a lot more apart then the Athearn RBD's. That Is why I have nothing on now but if I ever run it I will "CHANGE"( and you know how I dislike to change anything on vintage items) from RBD to Lionel Conical Springs or Lindberg that you can cut to size, don't cut the wrong end, and then you can screw the spring ends together. Don't have to take entire drive system apart to put them on. Just feed one end through and join to other end. They will last forever.      By the wayand maybe I'm reading your message wrong. The source for the two versions is Lenahans Locomotive Lexicon Volume 11 Page 61.   The 1949 version has 5 windows in the nose piece. The 1950 version has a split (in half ) nose window.  I know there are a few adds in train mags about them but I will go with what I have. Hey I bet you could just switch the nose piece and have either year. No matter what one you / I have it's a kind of rare engine                                                      Jim H On 4/19/2012 9:36 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Jim, I really hope you are doing well today! To help get us back on track...That 1949 (split window) Sampson rail car I showed you showed up. It is complete in in really good shape! Thanks for showing it to us initially. I would not have known what it was or thought to get it otherwise. It is nice having a little piece of history in my collection. I will be mailing you the car on top. It is chrome plated and has the plastic/resin board base. I think it predated Hobbytown. maybe you know what it is. One side has moisture damage to the plating but the other side can be cleaned up for display purposes. Either way, it is yours if you want it. Here is the link to my flickr photo of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6947240852/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:37 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Back to the RR   > > > I Thank everyone for their thoughts. It's a little hard to explain > the medication situation but some of what people suggested I am > researching or doing. > > So I say back to on topic and I intend to start "Working on the > Railroad ASAP" and continuing with my projects. > > > Hoping for all greens. Back to the trains PLEASE. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19070	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: B unit

Sean, Yes I'll take that B unit GLADLY to see what it is. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19071	From: Jay	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Back to the RR

Glad you got it Sean! That was going to be my second "who won it" question after asking about the cast FT's I missed out on because of missed bid closing time. Will beinterested in hering your report once it arrives. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > > I really hope you are doing well today! > > To help get us back on track...That 1949 (split window) Sampson rail car I showed you showed up. It is complete in in really good shape! Thanks for showing it to us initially. I would not have known what it was or thought to get it otherwise. It is nice having a little piece of history in my collection. > > > I will be mailing you the car on top. It is chrome plated and has the plastic/resin board base. I think it predated Hobbytown. maybe you know what it is. One side has moisture damage to the plating but the other side can be cleaned up for display purposes. Either way, it is yours if you want it. > > Here is the link to my flickr photo of it: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6947240852/in/photostream > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:37 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Back to the RR > > >   > > > > > > > I Thank everyone for their thoughts. It's a little hard to explain > > the medication situation but some of what people suggested I am > > researching or doing. > > > > So I say back to on topic and I intend to start "Working on the > > Railroad ASAP" and continuing with my projects. > > > > > > Hoping for all greens. Back to the trains PLEASE. > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19072	From: Jay	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone get these 4 (sand?) cast FT's?

Wil, I know what you mean. I thought that the FT's photo was "good" compared to some I've seen (just kidding)! But sometimes the poor photos can work to our advantage, too. Last winter I finally found the original Bowser Mountain cast brass/bronze tender I wanted; it was labeled a "coal car" hiding behind a sorry looking zamac, "major chunks missing" Varney 0-1-0 Docksider. Some of you must have seen it, or at least that Docksider as it was listed correctly under Varney. Everything in the multiple photos was so dark, I could barely see its profile, but over a few days, matched it to the catalog and Jim's photos in his album and bid, got it for $9.99 with no competetion. I've bought a few turkeys over the years too, part of the game, so don't bid too high on the unconfirmed. When I first began about a dozen years ago on eBay, many items being sold had no photos at all! Talk about leaps of faith! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wdavis5069" <wdavis5069@...> wrote: > > > Do people deliberately post blurry pictures so you can't tell condition or identify an item? I have seen this before, the photo is so poor I am reluctant to bid. > > Just wondering, > Wil > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Was anyone the lucky successful bidder on these 4 (A-B-B-A) cast FT shells about a week and a half ago? > > > > I'm curious, cast bronze or ? Any markings or numbers cast into them? > > > > eBay item number: 370601869780 > > > > As sometimes happens, I missed the bid closing time, and it figures, lol, they closed at an nice low price! > > > > Thanks, W. Jay W. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19073	From: rayzef	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Hi Matt Thanks for quick response, I had a close look at the drivers and they are a press fit, no slot just a small hole in the centre. The Tender has a steel frame with machining marks visible and it is riveted to tender body. The more I inspect the model, I am inclined to lean very heavy that it was scratch built. I have checked all my All Nation and GMC catalogues but only a generic Pacific is shown. A quick lube and it runs very nice no binding. I had forgotten about Varney etc. even though I have the 4-6-0! I will keep searching. Thanks again Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Based on the drivers and what appears to be a screw slot in them it is most likely a Varney/All Nation 4-6-2 that has been given a rather nice scratchbuilt Great Northern superstructure. I have one of the All Nation 4-4-0s that shares some common components. The tender wrapper also appears to be scratchbuilt as the All Nation ones were plain. > > It looks like a nice piece to me and if it runs, that is a bonus. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rayzef" <rayzef@> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > > Thanks > > Ray Z > > Adelaide > > South Australia. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19074	From: rayzef	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Hi At this stage it looks like a scratch built model, well worth the price. When you live down at the end of the world you don't worry about postage, that can range from $10 to nearly $200 for courier service, all part of living far away. Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Not sure I'd have spent almost $260 for that, considering the gouging if it's shipping to Oz from the States. > > > Hi All > > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > > Thanks > > Ray Z > > Adelaide > > South Australia. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19075	From: Lon	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Wood & metal kit car purchase

Hi all, Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19076	From: Jay	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

Hi Lon W., I think you found a good vintage selection of clean and neatly constructed cars that can all be restored and run - at a little over $3 a car - a good deal - even a couple of packs of the now discontinued and sought after KD#4's too. I'm not an expert on the metal tank cars, so note the road # and check the files section of Globe or Athearn for a match. (That attractive Mobilgas tank car always seems to be popular on eBay when sold alone.) Think the execatching Carnation reefer & NP boxcar are Main Line, later Ye Olde Huff n Puff, so would check those ML numbers as well. The stamped metal boxcar lookes like Varney - if side and end are one stamping. Then after you have figured ot what you have, look up the instruction sheets on HOSeeker.org to see what few details have to be added or replaced. You may not find an exact replacement tank car frame right away, but would try some small brass angle or even rail epoxied across the breaks which might suffice for a running model. It should be a fun project to complete the consist! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19077	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

On 4/20/2012 7:08 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > - I'd say it's a darn good deal. With some work to finish them up if I had to put a value on them I'd say twenty bucks a pop once they were done. The tank cars are probably Athean Metal, not sure about the others, that wooden gondola might be an Ambroid. Whether the trucks are useable or not depends on whether they suffer from lead rot. All in all it's a lot I would have been very happy with at that price. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19078	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

I like'em. Good looking truss-rod underbody on the one. Others look like fun to restore. Not a bad price. Dennis E WA At 05:08 PM 4/20/2012, you wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all > the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and > cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be > welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19079	From: rayzef	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

Hi Matt I unpacked my Varney 4-6-0 and the drivers show the slotted nut, just like the OO Scale Romford wheels from the UK. My model has a very small hole in the axle centre, no slot, very different from the 4-6-0. It is a very nice model, runs without binds, it would be nice to know the skilled builder. Thanks for your response Ray Z --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Based on the drivers and what appears to be a screw slot in them it is most likely a Varney/All Nation 4-6-2 that has been given a rather nice scratchbuilt Great Northern superstructure. I have one of the All Nation 4-4-0s that shares some common components. The tender wrapper also appears to be scratchbuilt as the All Nation ones were plain. > > It looks like a nice piece to me and if it runs, that is a bonus. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rayzef" <rayzef@> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > > Thanks > > Ray Z > > Adelaide > > South Australia. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19080	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: O gauge GN H4 Pacific built by??

I think by the end of A-N, and for sure by Babbitt, the round nuts went away. > Hi Matt > I unpacked my Varney 4-6-0 and the drivers show the slotted nut, just like the OO Scale Romford wheels from the UK. My model has a very small hole in the axle centre, no slot, very different from the 4-6-0. > It is a very nice model, runs without binds, it would be nice to know the skilled builder. > Thanks for your response > Ray Z > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Based on the drivers and what appears to be a screw slot in them it is most likely a Varney/All Nation 4-6-2 that has been given a rather nice scratchbuilt Great Northern superstructure. I have one of the All Nation 4-4-0s that shares some common components. The tender wrapper also appears to be scratchbuilt as the All Nation ones were plain. > > > > It looks like a nice piece to me and if it runs, that is a bonus. > > > > Matt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rayzef" <rayzef@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > Off HO topic but was wondering if any O gauge collectors can help. > > > I won this item on Ebay, #300661824957, thought it might be Lobaugh but > > > detail and castings look more modern than the sandcast of Lobaugh, going by my C&NW Berkshire kit. It has a Modeltronic Sound system installed. I have checked all my early Lobaugh catalogues but nothing close. Could it be scratch built, it is a very clean constructed model, complete with lagging clamps. The smokebox front is held on by a large internal spring, model is powered by a very large KTM motorm > > > Thanks > > > Ray Z > > > Adelaide > > > South Australia. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19081	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

The D&RGW OB boxcar looks like an K-series Ambroid.  I think that the gondola is Ambroid as well, part of the two car 1/5000 golden anniversary set with the N&W wooden hopper. My initial thought was that the Texaco tank car was Silver Streak.  However, closer examination suggests it's Globe or Athearn metal. In any event, you got a great deal. John B. Allyn From: "Dennis Thompson" <dbtrail@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:12:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wood & metal kit car purchase   I like'em. Good looking truss-rod underbody on the one. Others look like fun to restore. Not a bad price. Dennis E WA At 05:08 PM 4/20/2012, you wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all > the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and > cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be > welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19082	From: Lon	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

Hi Don and all, I am hoping that the trucks are in good shape. Did you spot the little plastic box that says Central Valley. Andrew did. I am hoping it is unopened or if opened, has the real C.V. trucks. As far as I know I do not now own any C.V. trucks but I will compare these to the many trucks I now have. This was a Buy It Now listing that I think I was just lucky enough to come across soon after it was listed. My instincts told me this was a good deal. They look to be clean,well put together and detailed, almost complete cars with the couplers thrown in. I have been on the lookout for #4 couplers since I read on this list that they have been discontinued. I have read that they are desirable for the vintage cars but as yet have not read or discovered why. Can someone fill me in? BTW I have recently used some whisker couplers on newer cars and so far I like them. I suppose it would not be appropriate to use them on vintage cars. Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/20/2012 7:08 PM, Lon wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > > > > > - > I'd say it's a darn good deal. With some work to finish them up if I > had to put a value on them I'd say twenty bucks a pop once they were > done. The tank cars are probably Athean Metal, not sure about the > others, that wooden gondola might be an Ambroid. > Whether the trucks are useable or not depends on whether they suffer > from lead rot. > > All in all it's a lot I would have been very happy with at that price. > > Don > > Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19083	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

Lon -- MKD-4 couplers fit into coupler boxes made for dummy couplers, which was sort of the default for kit manufacturers in the pre-X2f/NMRA/horn-hook coupler era.  Your Athearn/Globe tank cars should have that kind of box.  I liked to use them on gons, flats, and open platform cars as they riveted together and could be mounted with glue without the risk of a screw coming through the floor or platform.  The cast metal coupler box also looked better than the plastic boxes for the MKD-5/10. John B. Allyn From: "Lon" <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 3:47:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase   Hi Don and all, I am hoping that the trucks are in good shape. Did you spot the little plastic box that says Central Valley. Andrew did. I am hoping it is unopened or if opened, has the real C.V. trucks. As far as I know I do not now own any C.V. trucks but I will compare these to the many trucks I now have. This was a Buy It Now listing that I think I was just lucky enough to come across soon after it was listed. My instincts told me this was a good deal. They look to be clean,well put together and detailed, almost complete cars with the couplers thrown in. I have been on the lookout for #4 couplers since I read on this list that they have been discontinued. I have read that they are desirable for the vintage cars but as yet have not read or discovered why. Can someone fill me in? BTW I have recently used some whisker couplers on newer cars and so far I like them. I suppose it would not be appropriate to use them on vintage cars. Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/20/2012 7:08 PM, Lon wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > > > > > - > I'd say it's a darn good deal. With some work to finish them up if I > had to put a value on them I'd say twenty bucks a pop once they were > done. The tank cars are probably Athean Metal, not sure about the > others, that wooden gondola might be an Ambroid. > Whether the trucks are useable or not depends on whether they suffer > from lead rot. > > All in all it's a lot I would have been very happy with at that price. > > Don > > Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19084	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

On 4/21/2012 3:47 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi Don and all, > I am hoping that the trucks are in good shape. Did you spot the little plastic box that says Central Valley. Andrew did. I am hoping it is unopened or if opened, has the real C.V. trucks. As far as I know I do not now own any C.V. trucks but I will compare these to the many trucks I now have. > > This was a Buy It Now listing that I think I was just lucky enough to come across soon after it was listed. My instincts told me this was a good deal. They look to be clean,well put together and detailed, almost complete cars with the couplers thrown in. > > I have been on the lookout for #4 couplers since I read on this list that they have been discontinued. I have read that they are desirable for the vintage cars but as yet have not read or discovered why. > Can someone fill me in? > > BTW I have recently used some whisker couplers on newer cars and so far I like them. I suppose it would not be appropriate to use them on vintage cars. > Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann<don.dellmann@...> wrote: > The reason No, 4's are desirable is because many of the early coupler pockets were designed to take them, and a number 5 won't fit. In fact, that was supposed to be the "NMRA Universal" coupler mounting until Athearn and MDC standardized on the design with the larger center post which gave rise the the"Number 5". One thing I never figured out is whatever happened to Kadee nos. 1 though 3 ? :-) -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19085	From: P Entingh	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Wood & metal kit car purchase

Lon: It's fun to find some of these old classics and nurse them back to health and see them back in service. Vary often on these old tank cars the frame was made of poor quality metal and is shot. as yours appears to be from the photos. Hunt for a couple of athearn? tank cars at a show or what ever. Other Brands might fit also..You should be able to modify the frame a bit if they are not a direct replacement. I know they are plastic. Just hold your nose and do it. Weather them a bit and no one will know the difference. They also are a direct fit foe Kadee couplers. Those old zamak frames are not always easy to modify for couplers. Philip Entingh From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Lon <wlon17@...> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wood & metal kit car purchase   On 4/20/2012 7:08 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > - I'd say it's a darn good deal. With some work to finish them up if I had to put a value on them I'd say twenty bucks a pop once they were done. The tank cars are probably Athean Metal, not sure about the others, that wooden gondola might be an Ambroid. Whether the trucks are useable or not depends on whether they suffer from lead rot. All in all it's a lot I would have been very happy with at that price. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19086	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser/Selly has new 1940's-50's "Walthers" tank car frames

Attachments : Selly.Bowser.Walthers tank car frame.jpg Hi Lon and All,   Amazingly, you dont have to look too far for cast metal tank car frames as Bowser/Selly still carries virtual duplicates (now cast in pewter) for the 1940's - early 1950's era Walthers frames, Selly part # 76, $5.60 (as well as direct replacements for the vintage Walthers domes and other small tank car parts - brake cylinders, dummy couplers, etc.).  Here is the link to the frame page or see the illustration of the tank car frame from the current Selly web page attached below.   http://www.bowser-trains.com/In%20Stock%20Pages/Selley%20Finishing%20Touches/Selley%20Drawings%20Page%206.jpg     In fact, by using the Selly "Walthers" parts and the right sized wood dowel, one can construct an exact replica of any vintage Walthers 1,2,3 or 4 dome tank car - the plans are on HOSeeker!  At one time I had an idea to get the dowels, order the parts and box up several "kits" to give my model RR friends for Christmas - as an introduction to Vintage model railroad kit building.  Still might do that!   W. Jay W. From: P Entingh <pjentingh@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wood & metal kit car purchase   Lon: It's fun to find some of these old classics and nurse them back to health and see them back in service. Vary often on these old tank cars the frame was made of poor quality metal and is shot. as yours appears to be from the photos. Hunt for a couple of athearn? tank cars at a show or what ever. Other Brands might fit also..You should be able to modify the frame a bit if they are not a direct replacement. I know they are plastic. Just hold your nose and do it. Weather them a bit and no one will know the difference. They also are a direct fit foe Kadee couplers. Those old zamak frames are not always easy to modify for couplers. Philip Entingh From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Lon <wlon17@...> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wood & metal kit car purchase   On 4/20/2012 7:08 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > - I'd say it's a darn good deal. With some work to finish them up if I had to put a value on them I'd say twenty bucks a pop once they were done. The tank cars are probably Athean Metal, not sure about the others, that wooden gondola might be an Ambroid. Whether the trucks are useable or not depends on whether they suffer from lead rot. All in all it's a lot I would have been very happy with at that price. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19087	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser/Selly has new 1940's-50's "Walthers" tank car frames [1 A

I thought Selley production was ended when Bowser ceased steam kit production? Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Apr 21, 2012, at 11:30 PM, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> wrote: Hi Lon and All,   Amazingly, you dont have to look too far for cast metal tank car frames as Bowser/Selly still carries virtual duplicates (now cast in pewter) for the 1940's - early 1950's era Walthers frames, Selly part # 76, $5.60 (as well as direct replacements for the vintage Walthers domes and other small tank car parts - brake cylinders, dummy couplers, etc.).  Here is the link to the frame page or see the illustration of the tank car frame from the current Selly web page attached below.   http://www.bowser-trains.com/In%20Stock%20Pages/Selley%20Finishing%20Touches/Selley%20Drawings%20Page%206.jpg     In fact, by using the Selly "Walthers" parts and the right sized wood dowel, one can construct an exact replica of any vintage Walthers 1,2,3 or 4 dome tank car - the plans are on HOSeeker!  At one time I had an idea to get the dowels, order the parts and box up several "kits" to give my model RR friends for Christmas - as an introduction to Vintage model railroad kit building.  Still might do that!   W. Jay W. From: P Entingh <pjentingh@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wood & metal kit car purchase   Lon: It's fun to find some of these old classics and nurse them back to health and see them back in service. Vary often on these old tank cars the frame was made of poor quality metal and is shot. as yours appears to be from the photos. Hunt for a couple of athearn? tank cars at a show or what ever. Other Brands might fit also..You should be able to modify the frame a bit if they are not a direct replacement. I know they are plastic. Just hold your nose and do it. Weather them a bit and no one will know the difference. They also are a direct fit foe Kadee couplers. Those old zamak frames are not always easy to modify for couplers. Philip Entingh From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Lon <wlon17@...> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wood & metal kit car purchase   On 4/20/2012 7:08 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a link to my latest ebay find. Please take a look at all the pictures at the bottom and comment on the makers, details, and cost of the lot. Any comments, advice and information would be welcome. did I pay too much? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/290692586025?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 > > > > - I'd say it's a darn good deal. With some work to finish them up if I had to put a value on them I'd say twenty bucks a pop once they were done. The tank cars are probably Athean Metal, not sure about the others, that wooden gondola might be an Ambroid. Whether the trucks are useable or not depends on whether they suffer from lead rot. All in all it's a lot I would have been very happy with at that price. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19088	From: rcjge	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Oriental Powerhouse Pacific question

Hey Guys; I realise that the Oriental Powerhouse products are too recent to really fall in this little province of model RRing but I wondered if one of you guys had a Powerhouse USRA Pacific? I'm curious as to what the drivers scale out at. Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19089	From: RalphB	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Varney tenders on eBay

I was looking for something else, but I decided to see what was offered in the line of Varney products. As has been mentioned more than once, it's amazing what some people want to sell for and what others will pay for something. Case in point, a couple of Varney 12-wheel tenders. One is offered at $9.99 (Item 270959913682) and the second at $35 (Item 221002303600). The lower-priced one looks like the better of the two, but I'm not a Varney expert. There's a similar price spread on some Varney "Casey Jones" ten-wheelers with a few hovering around $25, but one offered at a starting bid of $125. (I paid about $50 for mine.) Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19090	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Westwood kits

I've been wanting to build some of the old Westwood kits with the vacuformed roof skins. This would be a sheet styrene to sometimes wood and sometimes styrene ribbing. What glues should be used today for either the plastic to plastic or the plastic to wood bonding? Please bear in mind that the roof skin is thin sheet plastic. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19091	From: John Barlow	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Westwood kits

I would think white glue (like Elmers) might bind such thin plastic to wood. ACC worries me in the thin plastic realm. And if it sets up and cures too quickly...look out. No mistakes allowed...and no adjustments either. Applu thoroughly by sparingly over the area.   John (jdenver4150@...) --- On Sun, 4/22/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Westwood kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 11:09 AM   I've been wanting to build some of the old Westwood kits with the vacuformed roof skins. This would be a sheet styrene to sometimes wood and sometimes styrene ribbing. What glues should be used today for either the plastic to plastic or the plastic to wood bonding? Please bear in mind that the roof skin is thin sheet plastic. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19092	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Westwood kits

On 4/22/2012 12:09 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > I've been wanting to build some of the old Westwood kits with the vacuformed roof skins. > > This would be a sheet styrene to sometimes wood and sometimes styrene ribbing. > > What glues should be used today for either the plastic to plastic or the plastic to wood bonding? Please bear in mind that the roof skin is thin sheet plastic. > > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > I would try Alene's tacky glue first. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19093	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Walthers HH600 Progress

Attachments : IMG_7895.JPG IMG_7894.JPG Haven't been able to do a lot . The lack of the plans for the pre war Bronze engine which is made slightly different then the post war cast lead version. The plans for the lead version are not all that helpful. Differences like the motor and dummy truck in the cast lead version is reversed in the Bronze version. The cast lead version has a slot cut in the body under the cab to attach to and a different type bolster set up for the dummy truck to name a few differences. The Bronze version has tabs cast right on the inside of the body and this is where you drill the holes to mount the motor/truck with side frames that slides over the wheels in the front and the dummy truck with bolster with side frames that are part of the dummy truck. Front side frame is for newer version and back side frame is for the first version. Have to find a match to it for the front You can see inside how tight it is. I just have one wire to solder to the brush. You might notice a tab inside high in the cab where you would cut out the one for the dummy truck and use it to mount a second motor. I am starting to mount the original couplers that were broke at the mounting hole. Previous builder put a screw down the pilots and just bent the end over to hold couplers on. I am trying to reinforce the couplers to drill new holes and then shape the couplers after the holes are drill. A screw will go through a slightly larger hole in the coupler allowing it to move from the bottom up and then thread into the pilot. Then 2 little brass covers will be glued under the coupler pocket. Four corner ladders already made will be put on and four strap steps will be put on front and back. I have the steps made. Need to make the straps and solder the steps on. The end ( I hope ) Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19094	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH600 Progress [2 Attachments]

Jim --   Having followed this from the beginning, I can't believe how well this restoration is going.  This is going to be a beautiful engine.  My compliments! John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:25:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH600 Progress [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Haven't been able to do a lot . The lack of the plans for the pre war Bronze engine which is made slightly different then the post war cast lead version. The plans for the lead version are not all that helpful. Differences like the motor and dummy truck in the cast lead version is reversed in the Bronze version. The cast lead version has a slot cut in the body under the cab to attach to and a different type bolster set up for the dummy truck to name a few differences. The Bronze version has tabs cast right on the inside of the body and this is where you drill the holes to mount the motor/truck with side frames that slides over the wheels in the front and the dummy truck with bolster with side frames that are part of the dummy truck. Front side frame is for newer version and back side frame is for the first version. Have to find a match to it for the front You can see inside how tight it is. I just have one wire to solder to the brush. You might notice a tab inside high in the cab where you would cut out the one for the dummy truck and use it to mount a second motor. I am starting to mount the original couplers that were broke at the mounting hole. Previous builder put a screw down the pilots and just bent the end over to hold couplers on. I am trying to reinforce the couplers to drill new holes and then shape the couplers after the holes are drill. A screw will go through a slightly larger hole in the coupler allowing it to move from the bottom up and then thread into the pilot. Then 2 little brass covers will be glued under the coupler pocket. Four corner ladders already made will be put on and four strap steps will be put on front and back. I have the steps made. Need to make the straps and solder the steps on. The end ( I hope ) Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19095	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers HH600 Progress [2 Attachments]

Wow Jim.   That’s one heck of a project. You are doing wonders with it. I doubt many, if any, of the early model rails went to such herculean efforts. Superb work.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:25 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers HH600 Progress [2 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Haven't been able to do a lot . The lack of the plans for the pre war Bronze engine which is made slightly different then the post war cast lead version. The plans for the lead version are not all that helpful. Differences like the motor and dummy truck in the cast lead version is reversed in the Bronze version. The cast lead version has a slot cut in the body under the cab to attach to and a different type bolster set up for the dummy truck to name a few differences. The Bronze version has tabs cast right on the inside of the body and this is where you drill the holes to mount the motor/truck with side frames that slides over the wheels in the front and the dummy truck with bolster with side frames that are part of the dummy truck. Front side frame is for newer version and back side frame is for the first version. Have to find a match to it for the front You can see inside how tight it is. I just have one wire to solder to the brush. You might notice a tab inside high in the cab where you would cut out the one for the dummy truck and use it to mount a second motor. I am starting to mount the original couplers that were broke at the mounting hole. Previous builder put a screw down the pilots and just bent the end over to hold couplers on. I am trying to reinforce the couplers to drill new holes and then shape the couplers after the holes are drill. A screw will go through a slightly larger hole in the coupler allowing it to move from the bottom up and then thread into the pilot. Then 2 little brass covers will be glued under the coupler pocket. Four corner ladders already made will be put on and four strap steps will be put on front and back. I have the steps made. Need to make the straps and solder the steps on. The end ( I hope ) Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19096	From: Wally	Date: 4/23/2012
Subject: Red Ball "Oldie" box car No. 88 Free to a good home for postage

This car came with another kit that I really wanted so this kit is excess and it's free to a good home for postage. I've posted a picture in my folder, Wally. Please contact me off line at dim01521@... if you're interested.First one to aks gets it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19097	From: rcjge	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

I have a post war cast Walthers HH. Since I waited to long to get the original motor/truck combo from Tom, I'm thinking of powering my version with a Varney Switcher power train. Should be able to drive both trucks... I'd also like to round the front hood edges to represent a later version but have come up with a method to make it uniform in curve, any thoughts Gentlemen??? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19098	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Make a shim brass or plastic template with which to check the body...  Make it so that it will slip over the front and sides of the body with the curves you propose as a finished product...  Then use fine files and check the progress as you do the filing alterations...  frequently check with the template as you progress from top to bottom to make sure the curves are uniform...  Polish the final finish with fine emery cloth.  This may be slow and labor intensive but it will work well if you check the work often with the template. Don Staton in VA. ----------------------------------------------------------- On 4/24/2012 10:51 AM, rcjge wrote:   I have a post war cast Walthers HH. Since I waited to long to get the original motor/truck combo from Tom, I'm thinking of powering my version with a Varney Switcher power train. Should be able to drive both trucks... I'd also like to round the front hood edges to represent a later version but have come up with a method to make it uniform in curve, any thoughts Gentlemen??? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19099	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Dons suggestion is good, I'd just like to add that if you have the lead version you might find the work goinr faster if you use the "shaper" from Micro-Mark - Though sold for removing parting lines from plastic models the triangullar cutting head works well for removing lead in small increments and the weight of the tool is sufficient to remove material without gouging. Just let the too's weight make the cut - I have used it on Penn Line boilers and it works well. Jake Bechtel Alabama On 4/24/12, Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> wrote: > /Make a shim brass or plastic template with which to check the body... > Make it so that it will slip over the front and sides of the body with > the curves you propose as a finished product... Then use fine files and > check the progress as you do the filing alterations... frequently check > with the template as you progress from top to bottom to make sure the > curves are uniform... Polish the final finish with fine emery cloth/. > /This may be slow and labor intensive but it will work well if you check > the work often with the template. > Don Staton in VA. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > / > On 4/24/2012 10:51 AM, rcjge wrote: >> >> I have a post war cast Walthers HH. >> >> Since I waited to long to get the original motor/truck combo from Tom, >> I'm thinking of powering my version with a Varney Switcher power >> train. Should be able to drive both trucks... >> >> I'd also like to round the front hood edges to represent a later >> version but have come up with a method to make it uniform in curve, >> any thoughts Gentlemen??? >> >> -Gareth >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19100	From: John H	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Jim Findly's decapod on eBay

$1036.00 plus shipping for Jim Findly's PFM 2-10-0. Another one that looked like a twin (weathering included) except it wasn't "famous" went last week for some like a buck and a quarter to a buck and a half. For those who may have missed it look for item #200746533490. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19101	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

I have a number of HH shells, one is a runner with the original single-truck drive. Bumpy ride but, ah heck, it's original! So, the wheels are out of round - at least they match...   I'd like to power one with an Athearn Blue Box drive. Need hints, as nothing seems to fit and just stacking the shell on a drive makes it 'way too tall.   Is there any fairly simple way to do this?   BTW, I have been watching this thread as none of my shells has ever had ANY details added - no handrails, bell, horn, etc.   T I A   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19103	From: al45390	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: A large lot on eBay

The number is, "261011028662". HO in spite of the way it's listed. What is the crane car???? Is it HO? Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19104	From: rcjge	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Hey Fred: I have a real nice article somewhere on doing up the HH shell, I'll see if I can find it.... I think it does up a NH unit but most of it can be transplanted.... I feel like the Walther units postwar are common enough to "mod" further using the Varney Switcher drive elements keeps it "in Generation". Just my thoughts... -Gareth PLEASE NOTE THIS MESSAGE WAS TRIMMED FOR BOTH SANITY AND THOSE THAT GET THE DIGEST. ;)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19105	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay

-- The crane might be Red Ball, the shipping seems a bit high. Roger Aultman -- al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: ============= The number is, "261011028662". HO in spite of the way it's listed. What is the crane car???? Is it HO? Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19106	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Westwood Passenger Car kit information

Earlier this month we had a discussion of Westwood passenger car kits. If you check out my Blog on my WEB page, listed below my signature,  you will find links to scanned copies of those brochures.  These brochures do not include the limited production kits which were released periodically and were not presented in brochures.  The photo's show several of the completed cars.  By the way I currently have one of the limited production Westwood Canadian Pacific Dome cars for sale on Ebay. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19107	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay

On 4/26/2012 10:33 AM, raul@... wrote: > -- > The crane might be Red Ball, the shipping seems a bit high. Roger Aultman > > > > -- al45390<bayerw2@...> wrote: > > ============= > The number is, "261011028662". HO in spite of the way it's listed. > What is the crane car???? Is it HO? > > Walter > > > It's not a RedBall, I have one of those. Based on the other cars and locomotives I'm going to guess Rivarossi from AHM. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19109	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay

I second Don's assesment. Jake Bechtel On 4/26/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > On 4/26/2012 10:33 AM, raul@... wrote: >> -- >> The crane might be Red Ball, the shipping seems a bit high. Roger >> Aultman >> >> >> >> -- al45390<bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> ============= >> The number is, "261011028662". HO in spite of the way it's listed. >> What is the crane car???? Is it HO? >> >> Walter >> >> >> > It's not a RedBall, I have one of those. > > Based on the other cars and locomotives I'm going to guess Rivarossi > from AHM. > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19110	From: Jay	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay

Hi Walter, Yes, despite the "heavy weathering" I also agree that crane is a later imported injection molded plastic unit. Here's a link to the AHM cranes that have sold recently on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/85s3o3v Red Ball made two different versions of their white metal and wood 200 ton crane and companion boom car. The original version can be seen in Catalogs #4 and #5 on HOSeeker, and the second even more detailed version was produced beginning in the "blueprint" box era from about the 1950-1951 Catalog #6 era on forward. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > I second Don's assesment. > Jake Bechtel > > On 4/26/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 4/26/2012 10:33 AM, raul@... wrote: > >> -- > >> The crane might be Red Ball, the shipping seems a bit high. Roger > >> Aultman > >> > >> > >> > >> -- al45390<bayerw2@...> wrote: > >> > >> ============= > >> The number is, "261011028662". HO in spite of the way it's listed. > >> What is the crane car???? Is it HO? > >> > >> Walter > >> > >> > >> > > It's not a RedBall, I have one of those. > > > > Based on the other cars and locomotives I'm going to guess Rivarossi > > from AHM. > > > > Don > > > > -- > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19111	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay

Definitely an AHM or Tyco (Are they the same?). The huge drum eliminates Red Ball, Athearn, Bachmann……..   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A large lot on eBay     Hi Walter, Yes, despite the "heavy weathering" I also agree that crane is a later imported injection molded plastic unit. Here's a link to the AHM cranes that have sold recently on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/85s3o3v Red Ball made two different versions of their white metal and wood 200 ton crane and companion boom car. The original version can be seen in Catalogs #4 and #5 on HOSeeker, and the second even more detailed version was produced beginning in the "blueprint" box era from about the 1950-1951 Catalog #6 era on forward. W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19112	From: Lon	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Central Valley trucks

Hi all, I received the lot of kit built cars today. This is the seven car group with 2 pkts. of #4 couplers, five sprung metal trucks and a plastic box that said Central Valley on it. I will post more about the cars later. This is about the C.V. trucks. I believe they are C.V. but I got a little surprise. On the card inside is printed T-54 HOn3 ARCHBAR $1.45. The bottom says N1 CLAD WHEELS. Maybe they were meant for the Carnation Milk car or the Great Northern truss rod box car. Are these rare at all or more expensive than HO C.V. trucks. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19114	From: litant@yahoo.com	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Hi, You may be thinking of the article in the Shoreliner, the publication of the New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association. I believe this is the issue and article: Volume 13 Issue 3 1982: "Modeling the New Haven's Alco HH600" -- Instructions on how to kitbash an HO-scale Alco HH600. 5 pages with photos and diagram. I've got that issue somewhere around here ... if I recall correctly, it used Hobbytown RS-3 end platform and steps castings to achieve the "late-HH600" look and drilled out the radiator fan opening on the top of the hood for a circle of brass screen. Michael Litant --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Fred: > > I have a real nice article somewhere on doing up the HH shell, I'll see if I can find it.... I think it does up a NH unit but most of it can be transplanted.... ...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19117	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Nasty worm

I think by now hopefully everybody knows to ignore any messages that have no subject line, or just a single word like "Hi" or "Hey" and just have a line about "you should try this" and a link. This is a nasty worm that is spreading like wildfire across the web. We had THREE members get infected within the last 24 HOURS. (I got it myself a month or two ago) I delete the messages and put those members on moderated status (they can still post, there just may be a delay until I can get to it to approve each message). In the meantime, if you see a message like this, just delete it. Sometimes even just opening the message is enough for you to get it too. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19118	From: John Hagen	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Nasty worm

Yes the spammers are out in force, have been all week. And for the last month or so it seems Friday is their big day so expect a lot of crap…. er, spam today. Nothing to get excited about. Just take the time to delete it. Eventually this too shall pass.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 6:32 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Nasty worm     I think by now hopefully everybody knows to ignore any messages that have no subject line, or just a single word like "Hi" or "Hey" and just have a line about "you should try this" and a link. This is a nasty worm that is spreading like wildfire across the web. We had THREE members get infected within the last 24 HOURS. (I got it myself a month or two ago) I delete the messages and put those members on moderated status (they can still post, there just may be a delay until I can get to it to approve each message). In the meantime, if you see a message like this, just delete it. Sometimes even just opening the message is enough for you to get it too. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19119	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Nasty worm

That is the best comment yet.  Hopefully this crap will go away soon. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:53:14 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Nasty worm   Yes the spammers are out in force, have been all week. And for the last month or so it seems Friday is their big day so expect a lot of crap…. er, spam today. Nothing to get excited about. Just take the time to delete it. Eventually this too shall pass.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 6:32 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Nasty worm     I think by now hopefully everybody knows to ignore any messages that have no subject line, or just a single word like "Hi" or "Hey" and just have a line about "you should try this" and a link. This is a nasty worm that is spreading like wildfire across the web. We had THREE members get infected within the last 24 HOURS. (I got it myself a month or two ago) I delete the messages and put those members on moderated status (they can still post, there just may be a delay until I can get to it to approve each message). In the meantime, if you see a message like this, just delete it. Sometimes even just opening the message is enough for you to get it too. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19120	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

Anything that says HOn3 is more rare and more expensive that regular HO stuff.  :o) Also, if you want rare, try to buy some Central Valley Fox trucks.   I picked some up at an NMRA auction a couple of years ago for under 5 bucks, that will never happen again. However, after extended use and testing, I have found out several things about Central Valley trucks. I don't want to get into any Holy Wars here, because some folks fervently believe that Central Valley Trucks are the epitome of trucks and none other can be better.  I do like Central Valley Trucks and have a bunch of em on my railroad.  But in all honesty, Kadee trucks look better and ride better and free roll farther.  Plus they are a LOT cheaper than trying to find and buy Central Valley trucks.  The only part of Kadee trucks that can be better is the wheelsets.   Bear in mind, I am talking about Kadee SPRUNG trucks, not the new plastic crap they are promoting.  If I have problems with Kadee wheelsets, (I don't mean to imply they are bad) I replace them with P2K, which seem to roll a lot better and don't pick up dirt as much. When it comes to passenger trucks, you can't beat Central Valley, even if you need to rebuild then with new wheelsets.  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:21:25 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi all, I received the lot of kit built cars today. This is the seven car group with 2 pkts. of #4 couplers, five sprung metal trucks and a plastic box that said Central Valley on it. I will post more about the cars later. This is about the C.V. trucks. I believe they are C.V. but I got a little surprise. On the card inside is printed T-54 HOn3 ARCHBAR $1.45. The bottom says N1 CLAD WHEELS. Maybe they were meant for the Carnation Milk car or the Great Northern truss rod box car. Are these rare at all or more expensive than HO C.V. trucks. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19121	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

The Central Valley HOn3 trucks used standard gauge side frames and a narrow gauge bolster, and thus appeared oversize.  When they were introduced (mid-1950's), though, they were used a lot given their appearance and reliability.  When introduced their competition were made by Binkley (not real good castings) and Kemtron (needed to be assembled, if memory serves correctly).  When properly scaled and assembled trucks of better quality came along the CV's sort of fell back.  So they are rare.   Earlier this year I bought a Roundhouse old time tank car for about $10 on E Bay.  Intent was (and still is) to kitbash so as to get rid of the gigantic Roundhouse frame.  Imagine my surprise when it came and I found that it mounted a pair of CV 30 ton Fox trucks instead of the Roundhouse Foxes that came with the original kits.   Much of the CV production predates non-magnetic axles and RP-25 flanges.  Vic, I'd be interested in learning your techniques for changing out the wheels on the passenger trucks and Fox freight trucks.  John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:24:29 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Anything that says HOn3 is more rare and more expensive that regular HO stuff.  :o) Also, if you want rare, try to buy some Central Valley Fox trucks.   I picked some up at an NMRA auction a couple of years ago for under 5 bucks, that will never happen again. However, after extended use and testing, I have found out several things about Central Valley trucks. I don't want to get into any Holy Wars here, because some folks fervently believe that Central Valley Trucks are the epitome of trucks and none other can be better.  I do like Central Valley Trucks and have a bunch of em on my railroad.  But in all honesty, Kadee trucks look better and ride better and free roll farther.  Plus they are a LOT cheaper than trying to find and buy Central Valley trucks.  The only part of Kadee trucks that can be better is the wheelsets.   Bear in mind, I am talking about Kadee SPRUNG trucks, not the new plastic crap they are promoting.  If I have problems with Kadee wheelsets, (I don't mean to imply they are bad) I replace them with P2K, which seem to roll a lot better and don't pick up dirt as much. When it comes to passenger trucks, you can't beat Central Valley, even if you need to rebuild then with new wheelsets.  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:21:25 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi all, I received the lot of kit built cars today. This is the seven car group with 2 pkts. of #4 couplers, five sprung metal trucks and a plastic box that said Central Valley on it. I will post more about the cars later. This is about the C.V. trucks. I believe they are C.V. but I got a little surprise. On the card inside is printed T-54 HOn3 ARCHBAR $1.45. The bottom says N1 CLAD WHEELS. Maybe they were meant for the Carnation Milk car or the Great Northern truss rod box car. Are these rare at all or more expensive than HO C.V. trucks. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19122	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

Hi John, Changing out the wheelsets, while not completely simple, is not really that difficult either.  There was a discussion on the PCL (Passenger Car List) Yahoo Group on doing this.  The gist of the effort involves  having a very good location to do the work, so you don't lose the springs.  You need to drill out two of the rivets on one side of the trucks.  These rivets will later be replaced with screws after the wheelsets are replaced.  I believe these are 36" wheelsets and most folks like to replace them with Jay-Bee's or Reboxx wheelsets.  I have not done this yet (because mine roll very nicely) but I suspect P2K 36" wheelsets could also be used.  You would need to measure the original CV's and compare with the P2K's.  While you have the trucks apart, you will likely want to tap 2-56 so that the head of the screw is underneath.   I think that can be done?  For sure, I wouldn't want to fuss with trying to use hex nuts with the screws. Here is a cut and paste of how one person does it from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/message/5410 ------------------------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------- How does one do it? I take a drill and either by hand (in a pin vise) or in a press (gently!!), and cut down the rivet-heads on one side of the truck until the rivet head comes off. Then I push out the rivets, and let the wheels fall out. I tape the sideframes so that the equalizers and the springs do not fall out. I then replace the rivets with 2-56 screws FROM THE BOTTOM- so that one does not create clearance problems with the screw head (I actually use flat head screws, and countersink the head). The rivet hole is ideal *as is* for tapping 2-56. All one has to do then is to drill out the matching piece to clear the screw shaft. I then clean out the bearing holes with the 60º "tool" sold by Reboxx under their name, and by others under just that, "the tool". I install the new wheels, bolt the truck back together, and you have a beautiful truck that does not show its age. With everything at hand, it is about a 15 minute procedure. I have been doing the same to the four wheel trucks.  ------------------------------------------snip snip snip-------------------------------------------  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: john.allyn@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:39:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   The Central Valley HOn3 trucks used standard gauge side frames and a narrow gauge bolster, and thus appeared oversize.  When they were introduced (mid-1950's), though, they were used a lot given their appearance and reliability.  When introduced their competition were made by Binkley (not real good castings) and Kemtron (needed to be assembled, if memory serves correctly).  When properly scaled and assembled trucks of better quality came along the CV's sort of fell back.  So they are rare.   Earlier this year I bought a Roundhouse old time tank car for about $10 on E Bay.  Intent was (and still is) to kitbash so as to get rid of the gigantic Roundhouse frame.  Imagine my surprise when it came and I found that it mounted a pair of CV 30 ton Fox trucks instead of the Roundhouse Foxes that came with the original kits.   Much of the CV production predates non-magnetic axles and RP-25 flanges.  Vic, I'd be interested in learning your techniques for changing out the wheels on the passenger trucks and Fox freight trucks.  John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:24:29 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Anything that says HOn3 is more rare and more expensive that regular HO stuff.  :o) Also, if you want rare, try to buy some Central Valley Fox trucks.   I picked some up at an NMRA auction a couple of years ago for under 5 bucks, that will never happen again. However, after extended use and testing, I have found out several things about Central Valley trucks. I don't want to get into any Holy Wars here, because some folks fervently believe that Central Valley Trucks are the epitome of trucks and none other can be better.  I do like Central Valley Trucks and have a bunch of em on my railroad.  But in all honesty, Kadee trucks look better and ride better and free roll farther.  Plus they are a LOT cheaper than trying to find and buy Central Valley trucks.  The only part of Kadee trucks that can be better is the wheelsets.   Bear in mind, I am talking about Kadee SPRUNG trucks, not the new plastic crap they are promoting.  If I have problems with Kadee wheelsets, (I don't mean to imply they are bad) I replace them with P2K, which seem to roll a lot better and don't pick up dirt as much. When it comes to passenger trucks, you can't beat Central Valley, even if you need to rebuild then with new wheelsets.  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:21:25 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi all, I received the lot of kit built cars today. This is the seven car group with 2 pkts. of #4 couplers, five sprung metal trucks and a plastic box that said Central Valley on it. I will post more about the cars later. This is about the C.V. trucks. I believe they are C.V. but I got a little surprise. On the card inside is printed T-54 HOn3 ARCHBAR $1.45. The bottom says N1 CLAD WHEELS. Maybe they were meant for the Carnation Milk car or the Great Northern truss rod box car. Are these rare at all or more expensive than HO C.V. trucks. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19123	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

Thanks Vic.  My only problem is that I am a world class spring loser! John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:04:26 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi John, Changing out the wheelsets, while not completely simple, is not really that difficult either.  There was a discussion on the PCL (Passenger Car List) Yahoo Group on doing this.  The gist of the effort involves  having a very good location to do the work, so you don't lose the springs.  You need to drill out two of the rivets on one side of the trucks.  These rivets will later be replaced with screws after the wheelsets are replaced.  I believe these are 36" wheelsets and most folks like to replace them with Jay-Bee's or Reboxx wheelsets.  I have not done this yet (because mine roll very nicely) but I suspect P2K 36" wheelsets could also be used.  You would need to measure the original CV's and compare with the P2K's.  While you have the trucks apart, you will likely want to tap 2-56 so that the head of the screw is underneath.   I think that can be done?  For sure, I wouldn't want to fuss with trying to use hex nuts with the screws. Here is a cut and paste of how one person does it from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/message/5410 ------------------------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------- How does one do it? I take a drill and either by hand (in a pin vise) or in a press (gently!!), and cut down the rivet-heads on one side of the truck until the rivet head comes off. Then I push out the rivets, and let the wheels fall out. I tape the sideframes so that the equalizers and the springs do not fall out. I then replace the rivets with 2-56 screws FROM THE BOTTOM- so that one does not create clearance problems with the screw head (I actually use flat head screws, and countersink the head). The rivet hole is ideal *as is* for tapping 2-56. All one has to do then is to drill out the matching piece to clear the screw shaft. I then clean out the bearing holes with the 60º "tool" sold by Reboxx under their name, and by others under just that, "the tool". I install the new wheels, bolt the truck back together, and you have a beautiful truck that does not show its age. With everything at hand, it is about a 15 minute procedure. I have been doing the same to the four wheel trucks.  ------------------------------------------snip snip snip-------------------------------------------  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: john.allyn@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:39:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   The Central Valley HOn3 trucks used standard gauge side frames and a narrow gauge bolster, and thus appeared oversize.  When they were introduced (mid-1950's), though, they were used a lot given their appearance and reliability.  When introduced their competition were made by Binkley (not real good castings) and Kemtron (needed to be assembled, if memory serves correctly).  When properly scaled and assembled trucks of better quality came along the CV's sort of fell back.  So they are rare.   Earlier this year I bought a Roundhouse old time tank car for about $10 on E Bay.  Intent was (and still is) to kitbash so as to get rid of the gigantic Roundhouse frame.  Imagine my surprise when it came and I found that it mounted a pair of CV 30 ton Fox trucks instead of the Roundhouse Foxes that came with the original kits.   Much of the CV production predates non-magnetic axles and RP-25 flanges.  Vic, I'd be interested in learning your techniques for changing out the wheels on the passenger trucks and Fox freight trucks.  John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:24:29 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Anything that says HOn3 is more rare and more expensive that regular HO stuff.  :o) Also, if you want rare, try to buy some Central Valley Fox trucks.   I picked some up at an NMRA auction a couple of years ago for under 5 bucks, that will never happen again. However, after extended use and testing, I have found out several things about Central Valley trucks. I don't want to get into any Holy Wars here, because some folks fervently believe that Central Valley Trucks are the epitome of trucks and none other can be better.  I do like Central Valley Trucks and have a bunch of em on my railroad.  But in all honesty, Kadee trucks look better and ride better and free roll farther.  Plus they are a LOT cheaper than trying to find and buy Central Valley trucks.  The only part of Kadee trucks that can be better is the wheelsets.   Bear in mind, I am talking about Kadee SPRUNG trucks, not the new plastic crap they are promoting.  If I have problems with Kadee wheelsets, (I don't mean to imply they are bad) I replace them with P2K, which seem to roll a lot better and don't pick up dirt as much. When it comes to passenger trucks, you can't beat Central Valley, even if you need to rebuild then with new wheelsets.  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:21:25 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi all, I received the lot of kit built cars today. This is the seven car group with 2 pkts. of #4 couplers, five sprung metal trucks and a plastic box that said Central Valley on it. I will post more about the cars later. This is about the C.V. trucks. I believe they are C.V. but I got a little surprise. On the card inside is printed T-54 HOn3 ARCHBAR $1.45. The bottom says N1 CLAD WHEELS. Maybe they were meant for the Carnation Milk car or the Great Northern truss rod box car. Are these rare at all or more expensive than HO C.V. trucks. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19124	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

Yes, me too.  The fellow that wrote up the instructions says to tape up those parts.  Maybe that will help?  Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: john.allyn@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:51:45 +0000 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Thanks Vic.  My only problem is that I am a world class spring loser! John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:04:26 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi John, Changing out the wheelsets, while not completely simple, is not really that difficult either.  There was a discussion on the PCL (Passenger Car List) Yahoo Group on doing this.  The gist of the effort involves  having a very good location to do the work, so you don't lose the springs.  You need to drill out two of the rivets on one side of the trucks.  These rivets will later be replaced with screws after the wheelsets are replaced.  I believe these are 36" wheelsets and most folks like to replace them with Jay-Bee's or Reboxx wheelsets.  I have not done this yet (because mine roll very nicely) but I suspect P2K 36" wheelsets could also be used.  You would need to measure the original CV's and compare with the P2K's.  While you have the trucks apart, you will likely want to tap 2-56 so that the head of the screw is underneath.   I think that can be done?  For sure, I wouldn't want to fuss with trying to use hex nuts with the screws. Here is a cut and paste of how one person does it from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/message/5410 ------------------------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------- How does one do it? I take a drill and either by hand (in a pin vise) or in a press (gently!!), and cut down the rivet-heads on one side of the truck until the rivet head comes off. Then I push out the rivets, and let the wheels fall out. I tape the sideframes so that the equalizers and the springs do not fall out. I then replace the rivets with 2-56 screws FROM THE BOTTOM- so that one does not create clearance problems with the screw head (I actually use flat head screws, and countersink the head). The rivet hole is ideal *as is* for tapping 2-56. All one has to do then is to drill out the matching piece to clear the screw shaft. I then clean out the bearing holes with the 60º "tool" sold by Reboxx under their name, and by others under just that, "the tool". I install the new wheels, bolt the truck back together, and you have a beautiful truck that does not show its age. With everything at hand, it is about a 15 minute procedure. I have been doing the same to the four wheel trucks.  ------------------------------------------snip snip snip-------------------------------------------  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: john.allyn@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:39:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   The Central Valley HOn3 trucks used standard gauge side frames and a narrow gauge bolster, and thus appeared oversize.  When they were introduced (mid-1950's), though, they were used a lot given their appearance and reliability.  When introduced their competition were made by Binkley (not real good castings) and Kemtron (needed to be assembled, if memory serves correctly).  When properly scaled and assembled trucks of better quality came along the CV's sort of fell back.  So they are rare.   Earlier this year I bought a Roundhouse old time tank car for about $10 on E Bay.  Intent was (and still is) to kitbash so as to get rid of the gigantic Roundhouse frame.  Imagine my surprise when it came and I found that it mounted a pair of CV 30 ton Fox trucks instead of the Roundhouse Foxes that came with the original kits.   Much of the CV production predates non-magnetic axles and RP-25 flanges.  Vic, I'd be interested in learning your techniques for changing out the wheels on the passenger trucks and Fox freight trucks.  John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:24:29 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Anything that says HOn3 is more rare and more expensive that regular HO stuff.  :o) Also, if you want rare, try to buy some Central Valley Fox trucks.   I picked some up at an NMRA auction a couple of years ago for under 5 bucks, that will never happen again. However, after extended use and testing, I have found out several things about Central Valley trucks. I don't want to get into any Holy Wars here, because some folks fervently believe that Central Valley Trucks are the epitome of trucks and none other can be better.  I do like Central Valley Trucks and have a bunch of em on my railroad.  But in all honesty, Kadee trucks look better and ride better and free roll farther.  Plus they are a LOT cheaper than trying to find and buy Central Valley trucks.  The only part of Kadee trucks that can be better is the wheelsets.   Bear in mind, I am talking about Kadee SPRUNG trucks, not the new plastic crap they are promoting.  If I have problems with Kadee wheelsets, (I don't mean to imply they are bad) I replace them with P2K, which seem to roll a lot better and don't pick up dirt as much. When it comes to passenger trucks, you can't beat Central Valley, even if you need to rebuild then with new wheelsets.  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:21:25 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks   Hi all, I received the lot of kit built cars today. This is the seven car group with 2 pkts. of #4 couplers, five sprung metal trucks and a plastic box that said Central Valley on it. I will post more about the cars later. This is about the C.V. trucks. I believe they are C.V. but I got a little surprise. On the card inside is printed T-54 HOn3 ARCHBAR $1.45. The bottom says N1 CLAD WHEELS. Maybe they were meant for the Carnation Milk car or the Great Northern truss rod box car. Are these rare at all or more expensive than HO C.V. trucks. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19125	From: Nelson	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Nasty worm

I got stung with this a little over a week ago because it came from a friend, and I clicked the link. The website must have a worm that steals the password to your Yahoo email account, and then it propagates itself again. It's not dangerous, just annoying, and changing your password solves it. Just don't click those links! Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I think by now hopefully everybody knows to ignore any messages that > have no subject line, or just a single word like "Hi" or "Hey" and just > have a line about "you should try this" and a link. > > This is a nasty worm that is spreading like wildfire across the web. > We had THREE members get infected within the last 24 HOURS. (I got it > myself a month or two ago) > > I delete the messages and put those members on moderated status (they > can still post, there just may be a delay until I can get to it to > approve each message). > > In the meantime, if you see a message like this, just delete it. > Sometimes even just opening the message is enough for you to get it too. > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19126	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

If you have a habit of losing springs or other small items when doing such projects you might consider doing the process with you hands and the items being worked on in a large clear plastic baggie.  That way the small items will not shoot off into unknown spaces.  Sometimes those really flexible baggies from electronic items purchased are good for such projects.    Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Yes, me too. The fellow that wrote up the instructions says to tape up those parts. Maybe that will help? Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: john.allyn@... > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:51:45 +0000 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks > Thanks Vic. My only problem is that I am a world class spring loser! > > > John B. Allyn > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19127	From: Jay	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Hi Fred H., I sent a detailed longer response earlier today on how I fitted the Athearn Blue-Box switcher chassis into a Walthers lead HH600 in the mid-1980's without sophisticated shop equipment, but the post has not shown up yet, as sometimes happens. I will wait until tomorrow to see if it shows up before I rewrite and post it - OK? As to that New Haven article using hobytown of Boston end "sill" castings, I used Cary's Alco S-1 white metal ones which may have not been avaiable when the NH article was written. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > > I have a number of HH shells, one is a runner with the original single-truck drive. Bumpy ride but, ah heck, it's original! So, the wheels are out of round - at least they match... >   > I'd like to power one with an Athearn Blue Box drive. Need hints, as nothing seems to fit and just stacking the shell on a drive makes it 'way too tall. >   > Is there any fairly simple way to do this? >   > BTW, I have been watching this thread as none of my shells has ever had ANY details added - no handrails, bell, horn, etc. >   > T I A >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19128	From: rcjge	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Hi Michael: You were right, I found that article and it was the shoreliner one.... Happily I still have the digital version as a backup.... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, litant@... wrote: > > Hi, > > You may be thinking of the article in the Shoreliner, the publication of the New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19129	From: Michael	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine

Greetings all. I am looking to sell this engine. If you follow the thread, it is not totally clear who the manufacturer is and I am at a loss as to how much to ask for it. The photo is in the Allman Trains folder. If anyone is interested shoot me an email and we will see what we can arrange. If anyone has a suggestion for a place to sell this I am open to suggestions. Thanks Michael Allman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Michael G. Allman" <mgallman@...> wrote: > > Ok, I am adding the photos of the front drive train. It is also powered. I > have also include pictures of the box. The only marking is on the bottom > saying "Made in Japan". > > Notice in the box, the bag of coal for the tender. > > > > Someone mentioned another forum with more experts? Where might I go next to > get further info? > > > > Michael Allman > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of ckinzer@... > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 11:01 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine > > > > > > Both of the underside closeup photos of an engine seem to be of the rear > engine. So I don't think it can be determined from the photos if the front > engine is powered. It would help to know. > > > > Chuck K. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bongiovanni12001 <mailto:bongiovanni1@...> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:48 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine > > > > > > > > I get this list in digest form, and was all set to provide my guess, but > Gerold and my friend Chuck Kinzer beat me to it. > > If If If I'm looking at the pictures correctly, both engines are powered. > IIRC, again, M B Austin and another importer (a So Cal hobby shop??)split an > order of c24 of these in the mid-late 1950's. I had one that was thought to > be an Austin pass through my hands about 35 years ago, and the pictures sure > look like my memory of that. If I had to bet, I'd say M B Austin, rather > than LMB. If you really need better info, there are two brass lists where > real experts reside. > > And from what I recall, it was ahead of it's time in detail, had reasonable > running characteristics, and is worth more than you might think to the > collectors of early brass. > > Thank you for posting the pictures and provoking this discussion. > > Frank Bongiovanni (returning to work on some Akane). > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "trainliker" <ckinzer@> wrote: > > > > Yes. Compared to today's standards early Tenshodo (and I have some) is > "crude". So is early everything. But I have yet to see one quite as basic as > the IMP. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I've just never seen one. I'm > always open to be shown some source to prove it. > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > Gerold Eckl <corv8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it is the most "crude", shall we say, offering of a brass > > > > challenger that I have ever seen a picture of. That's what makes me > > > > think it is very, very early in the history of imported brass models > > > > and more at the end of the spectrum where IMP and M.B. austin were > > > > and not LMB and especially not Tenshodo. It doesn't even have the > > > > boiler feed pipe and check valves and the number boards are flat > > > > slabs. This is pretty basic. I also don't think it is the LMB that > > > > is mentioned below. > > > Re crude ... some of the early Tenshodo models were **very ** crude by > > > todays standards... maybe even more than the Challenger in question. > > > Nevertheless they often sell at top prices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon" 1974 has these listingsfor the "early > > > > type 3900 class Challenger" (I listed all years): > > > > > > > > M. B. Austin 1958 Qty: 30, 6 wheel powered > > > > > > > > PFM 1955-58; rumored a few were made > > > > > > > > LMB 1960 Qty: ?, 6 wheel powered > > > > > > > > Olympic Express 1960 > > > > > > > > Balboa 1964 50 pcs > > > One of the main spotting features are the sander pipes -- there are > > > several variations from one manufacturer to the others, International > > > omitted them entirely ( If my guess that both mine and Michael's are > > > Internationals. > > > > > > > > > > There is a photo of the Olympic Express engine and it has better > > > > detail. Also, it has a headlight on smokebox front. Probably ALL > > > > models of the "early" challengers are like that so that probably isn't > > > > > a worthwhile spotting feature) > > > They all look that way, and all have this style of tender. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 2009 "Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide" shows: > > > > > > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Painted, wood box > > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Unpainted, velvet box > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 1 1954 Hand built > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 2 1955 Hand built - hand filed drivers - > > > > semi-vanderbilt tender > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 7 1956 Hand built - hand filed drivers - > > > > semi-vanderbilt tender > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 6 1957 Hand built - hand scribed serial #s on > > > > top of rear fram & or under the pilot > > > As we are talking about a model that shows up quite often its unlikely > > > its a PFM ... however it is possible all or at least several those came > > > from the same factory. > > > > MBA (M .B. Austin) Qty: 30 1958 Unpainted > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: ? 1959 Semi-vanderbilt tender > > > > > > > > For the IMP ones listed in this book, I don't know if it is the > > > > "early" style or not. But the description of wood and velvet boxes > > > > might be useful if you have a box. And while no year listed, they are > > > > probably in the 1950's. > > > The 1956 Imperial catalog definitely shows a picture of an early > > > Challenger. > > > > > > > > I think it is very unlikely that this is scratchbuilt. > > > > > > > > My guess is that it is probably either the IMP or M. B. Austin (and > > > > these might very well have come from the same place anyway) if only > > > > the rear engine is powered. > > > At least my loco, which is apparently identical to Michael's , has both > > > engines powered. Doesnt look as this was a later modification. > > > > > > Chuck, from your post I guess you havent read my previous message ( the > > > one with the attachments showing my Challenger) - wonder if it got lost > > > somehow? > > > > > > Gerold > > > > > > Just found a picture of an Tenshodo Challenger.... attached. It matches > > > the picture in PFM catalog #1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19130	From: Nelson	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: A large lot on eBay

Agreed... most of those cars are 60's AHM with metal wheels, either Rivarossi or Roco. http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id75.html Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Walter, > Yes, despite the "heavy weathering" I also agree that crane is a later imported injection molded plastic unit. Here's a link to the AHM cranes that have sold recently on eBay: > http://tinyurl.com/85s3o3v > > Red Ball made two different versions of their white metal and wood 200 ton crane and companion boom car. The original version can be seen in Catalogs #4 and #5 on HOSeeker, and the second even more detailed version was produced beginning in the "blueprint" box era from about the 1950-1951 Catalog #6 era on forward. > > W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@> wrote: > > > > I second Don's assesment. > > Jake Bechtel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19131	From: Jay	Date: 4/27/2012
Subject: Re: Speaking of Walther's HH units...

Hi Fred H., I ordered a set of HH castings from the then new Walther's 50th Anniversary Catalog as I wanted to try to model the Erie's round edge HH units. I had just finished a Cary S-1 and figured this must be just as easy! Ha! After soldering the Walthers parts together, but had substituted the upper part of a Cary cast white metal cab end as the Walthers casting I had was poor. Then I rounded the edges -Webmaster Don gave a good suggestion here as to using a template for that job. I also used a extra shim brass piece overlay for the cab roof. I did use an Athearn switcher chassis to power it, but first found as you did, that "as is" it sat way too high. Disclaimer: "Don't do this at home, kids!" Out came my late Dad's ancient Bakelite shelled Dremel Moto-tool with a cutting wheel that broghthavoc to TV reception for five blocks around! I set up a rudimentary wood fence balanced over the basement wash tubs and used another block of wood to support the tool at the right height, held steady with my hand and by dint of sheer determination, managed to mill-out an even, recessed rabbet on the inside edges of the assembled lead body to receive the chassis. Lots of trial and error, no measuring. Luckily, I was smart enough to use eye goggles as the lead flew and had no problems, though a dust mask might be advised today as well. Slots also had to be milled in the ends for the coupler pockets to recess into. Since this was the old outside bearing Athearn Blue Box chassis, I used Trackside Industries cast white metal Blundt sideframes with the brass bearing inserts. (If one uses a later Blue-Box chassis with inside bearings, another firm has the correct plastic Blundt style frames today.) Lastly, I added Ernst slow-speed gearing and North West Short Line nickel-silver wheelsets. Never got beyond that stage as work and family obligations became number one around that time, so no working haedlights, Erie details - handrails steps or paint either. Yet it still has a favored spot in my collection. My unit did end up with a list to one side, which I learned to correct from am MR Clinic in the August 1976 issue, P. 102. which involved adjusting the bends in the sheet metal bolster, but I guess many of you know that hint already, lol. The project was a lot of fun to do - working with "Vintage HO" before it was a special interest. Those lead Walther's HH's are fairly common, if not plentiful if one looks for them and fair game for some creative model building! W, Jay W. Ps. I did like the suggestion several posts above about using a Varney power truck set up to power the Alco HH and it is something I have seen a couple times on eBay over the years and is what a skilled modeler might have done in that era. Also a lot simpler than using an Athearn Blue Box chassis! - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > > I have a number of HH shells, one is a runner with the original single-truck drive. Bumpy ride but, ah heck, it's original! So, the wheels are out of round - at least they match... >   > I'd like to power one with an Athearn Blue Box drive. Need hints, as nothing seems to fit and just stacking the shell on a drive makes it 'way too tall. >   > Is there any fairly simple way to do this? >   > BTW, I have been watching this thread as none of my shells has ever had ANY details added - no handrails, bell, horn, etc. >   > T I A >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19132	From: Glenn	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine

M. B. "Bart" Austin had a shop "Trains, Nothing But Trains" in San Mateo, California--on the San Francisco Peninsula. He had a poor attitude towards customers-- "If you can find it we have it". (as a teenager I used to go there once I had access to a car) His locos might have been considered "State of the Art" for the time. gj -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine Greetings all. I am looking to sell this engine. If you follow the thread, it is not totally clear who the manufacturer is and I am at a loss as to how much to ask for it. The photo is in the Allman Trains folder. If anyone is interested shoot me an email and we will see what we can arrange. If anyone has a suggestion for a place to sell this I am open to suggestions. Thanks Michael Allman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Michael G. Allman" <mgallman@...> wrote: > > Ok, I am adding the photos of the front drive train. It is also powered. > I > have also include pictures of the box. The only marking is on the bottom > saying "Made in Japan". > > Notice in the box, the bag of coal for the tender. > > > > Someone mentioned another forum with more experts? Where might I go next > to > get further info? > > > > Michael Allman > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf > Of ckinzer@... > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 11:01 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine > > > > > > Both of the underside closeup photos of an engine seem to be of the rear > engine. So I don't think it can be determined from the photos if the > front > engine is powered. It would help to know. > > > > Chuck K. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bongiovanni12001 <mailto:bongiovanni1@...> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:48 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine > > > > > > > > I get this list in digest form, and was all set to provide my guess, but > Gerold and my friend Chuck Kinzer beat me to it. > > If If If I'm looking at the pictures correctly, both engines are powered. > IIRC, again, M B Austin and another importer (a So Cal hobby shop??)split > an > order of c24 of these in the mid-late 1950's. I had one that was thought > to > be an Austin pass through my hands about 35 years ago, and the pictures > sure > look like my memory of that. If I had to bet, I'd say M B Austin, rather > than LMB. If you really need better info, there are two brass lists where > real experts reside. > > And from what I recall, it was ahead of it's time in detail, had > reasonable > running characteristics, and is worth more than you might think to the > collectors of early brass. > > Thank you for posting the pictures and provoking this discussion. > > Frank Bongiovanni (returning to work on some Akane). > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "trainliker" <ckinzer@> wrote: > > > > Yes. Compared to today's standards early Tenshodo (and I have some) is > "crude". So is early everything. But I have yet to see one quite as basic > as > the IMP. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I've just never seen one. I'm > always open to be shown some source to prove it. > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > Gerold Eckl <corv8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it is the most "crude", shall we say, offering of a brass > > > > challenger that I have ever seen a picture of. That's what makes me > > > > think it is very, very early in the history of imported brass models > > > > and more at the end of the spectrum where IMP and M.B. austin were > > > > and not LMB and especially not Tenshodo. It doesn't even have the > > > > boiler feed pipe and check valves and the number boards are flat > > > > slabs. This is pretty basic. I also don't think it is the LMB that > > > > is mentioned below. > > > Re crude ... some of the early Tenshodo models were **very ** crude by > > > todays standards... maybe even more than the Challenger in question. > > > Nevertheless they often sell at top prices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon" 1974 has these listingsfor the "early > > > > type 3900 class Challenger" (I listed all years): > > > > > > > > M. B. Austin 1958 Qty: 30, 6 wheel powered > > > > > > > > PFM 1955-58; rumored a few were made > > > > > > > > LMB 1960 Qty: ?, 6 wheel powered > > > > > > > > Olympic Express 1960 > > > > > > > > Balboa 1964 50 pcs > > > One of the main spotting features are the sander pipes -- there are > > > several variations from one manufacturer to the others, International > > > omitted them entirely ( If my guess that both mine and Michael's are > > > Internationals. > > > > > > > > > > There is a photo of the Olympic Express engine and it has better > > > > detail. Also, it has a headlight on smokebox front. Probably ALL > > > > models of the "early" challengers are like that so that probably > > > > isn't > > > > > a worthwhile spotting feature) > > > They all look that way, and all have this style of tender. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 2009 "Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide" shows: > > > > > > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Painted, wood box > > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Unpainted, velvet box > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 1 1954 Hand built > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 2 1955 Hand built - hand filed drivers - > > > > semi-vanderbilt tender > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 7 1956 Hand built - hand filed drivers - > > > > semi-vanderbilt tender > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 6 1957 Hand built - hand scribed serial #s on > > > > top of rear fram & or under the pilot > > > As we are talking about a model that shows up quite often its unlikely > > > its a PFM ... however it is possible all or at least several those > > > came > > > from the same factory. > > > > MBA (M .B. Austin) Qty: 30 1958 Unpainted > > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: ? 1959 Semi-vanderbilt tender > > > > > > > > For the IMP ones listed in this book, I don't know if it is the > > > > "early" style or not. But the description of wood and velvet boxes > > > > might be useful if you have a box. And while no year listed, they > > > > are > > > > probably in the 1950's. > > > The 1956 Imperial catalog definitely shows a picture of an early > > > Challenger. > > > > > > > > I think it is very unlikely that this is scratchbuilt. > > > > > > > > My guess is that it is probably either the IMP or M. B. Austin (and > > > > these might very well have come from the same place anyway) if only > > > > the rear engine is powered. > > > At least my loco, which is apparently identical to Michael's , has > > > both > > > engines powered. Doesnt look as this was a later modification. > > > > > > Chuck, from your post I guess you havent read my previous message ( > > > the > > > one with the attachments showing my Challenger) - wonder if it got > > > lost > > > somehow? > > > > > > Gerold > > > > > > Just found a picture of an Tenshodo Challenger.... attached. It > > > matches > > > the picture in PFM catalog #1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19133	From: Willard Seehorn	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

A couple of tricks with dealing with springs -- When attaching a TINY dab of  white glue on one of the pegs the spring is going on tends to keep it from flying away Attaching (or removing tho it's harder to do) rune some thread (long enough to make a loop you can hold onto) through it. If it flies away it's caught. Once attached the thread  pulls out easily Will Facebook: CWRailman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Yes, me too. The fellow that wrote up the instructions says to tape up those parts. Maybe that will help? Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: john.allyn@... > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:51:45 +0000 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks > Thanks Vic. My only problem is that I am a world class spring loser! > > > John B. Allyn > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19134	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine

I'd like to get Jim Heckard's input here. This appears to have all 12 drivers powered, the front engine by a long flexable tube from the rear driver set, lead truck appears to be a replacement. Tenshodo from pre 1954 -55 would have been mostly hand made by Mr. Tenshodo himself, usually - at least as late as 1953, pre-ordered and built from photos and drawings supplied by the customer. This could be a Akane/Gem/Imperial from the early 50's especially if it is a smooth runner, they seemed to spend more time on their running gear and motors at the time and the flex connection to the front engine was a system Akane used. The turned and coined add-ons was also typical of Akane. The super detailing using castings began to show up after a US modeler detailed his PFM Tenshodo Big Boy using castings that he personally made the masters for and then these master became available to all - The Cal Scale super detail kits for the Challenger and Big Boy produced by both Cal Scale and Bowser was a package of those details so I would place this as pre-1957. Where are you Jim? Jake Bechtel On 4/28/12, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: > M. B. "Bart" Austin had a shop "Trains, Nothing But Trains" in San Mateo, > California--on the San Francisco Peninsula. He had a poor attitude towards > > customers-- "If you can find it we have it". (as a teenager I used to go > there once I had access to a car) His locos might have been considered > "State of the Art" for the time. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine > > Greetings all. I am looking to sell this engine. If you follow the thread, > > it is not totally clear who the manufacturer is and I am at a loss as to how > > much to ask for it. The photo is in the Allman Trains folder. If anyone is > > interested shoot me an email and we will see what we can arrange. If anyone > > has a suggestion for a place to sell this I am open to suggestions. > > Thanks > > Michael Allman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Michael G. Allman" <mgallman@...> wrote: >> >> Ok, I am adding the photos of the front drive train. It is also powered. >> >> I >> have also include pictures of the box. The only marking is on the bottom >> saying "Made in Japan". >> >> Notice in the box, the bag of coal for the tender. >> >> >> >> Someone mentioned another forum with more experts? Where might I go next >> >> to >> get further info? >> >> >> >> Michael Allman >> >> >> >> From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf >> Of ckinzer@... >> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 11:01 PM >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine >> >> >> >> >> >> Both of the underside closeup photos of an engine seem to be of the rear >> engine. So I don't think it can be determined from the photos if the >> front >> engine is powered. It would help to know. >> >> >> >> Chuck K. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: bongiovanni12001 <mailto:bongiovanni1@...> >> >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> >> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:48 PM >> >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I get this list in digest form, and was all set to provide my guess, but >> Gerold and my friend Chuck Kinzer beat me to it. >> >> If If If I'm looking at the pictures correctly, both engines are powered. >> IIRC, again, M B Austin and another importer (a So Cal hobby shop??)split >> >> an >> order of c24 of these in the mid-late 1950's. I had one that was thought >> to >> be an Austin pass through my hands about 35 years ago, and the pictures >> sure >> look like my memory of that. If I had to bet, I'd say M B Austin, rather >> than LMB. If you really need better info, there are two brass lists where >> real experts reside. >> >> And from what I recall, it was ahead of it's time in detail, had >> reasonable >> running characteristics, and is worth more than you might think to the >> collectors of early brass. >> >> Thank you for posting the pictures and provoking this discussion. >> >> Frank Bongiovanni (returning to work on some Akane). >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , >> "trainliker" <ckinzer@> wrote: >> > >> > Yes. Compared to today's standards early Tenshodo (and I have some) is >> "crude". So is early everything. But I have yet to see one quite as basic >> >> as >> the IMP. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I've just never seen one. >> I'm >> always open to be shown some source to prove it. >> > >> > Chuck Kinzer >> > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , >> Gerold Eckl <corv8@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Also, it is the most "crude", shall we say, offering of a brass >> > > > challenger that I have ever seen a picture of. That's what makes me >> > > > think it is very, very early in the history of imported brass >> > > > models >> > > > and more at the end of the spectrum where IMP and M.B. austin were >> > > > and not LMB and especially not Tenshodo. It doesn't even have the >> > > > boiler feed pipe and check valves and the number boards are flat >> > > > slabs. This is pretty basic. I also don't think it is the LMB that >> > > > is mentioned below. >> > > Re crude ... some of the early Tenshodo models were **very ** crude >> > > by >> > > todays standards... maybe even more than the Challenger in question. >> > > Nevertheless they often sell at top prices. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > "Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon" 1974 has these listingsfor the >> > > > "early >> > > > type 3900 class Challenger" (I listed all years): >> > > > >> > > > M. B. Austin 1958 Qty: 30, 6 wheel powered >> > > > >> > > > PFM 1955-58; rumored a few were made >> > > > >> > > > LMB 1960 Qty: ?, 6 wheel powered >> > > > >> > > > Olympic Express 1960 >> > > > >> > > > Balboa 1964 50 pcs >> > > One of the main spotting features are the sander pipes -- there are >> > > several variations from one manufacturer to the others, International >> > > omitted them entirely ( If my guess that both mine and Michael's are >> > > Internationals. >> > > >> > > >> > > > There is a photo of the Olympic Express engine and it has better >> > > > detail. Also, it has a headlight on smokebox front. Probably ALL >> > > > models of the "early" challengers are like that so that probably >> > > > isn't >> >> > > > a worthwhile spotting feature) >> > > They all look that way, and all have this style of tender. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > The 2009 "Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide" shows: >> > > > >> > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Painted, wood box >> > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Unpainted, velvet box >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 1 1954 Hand built >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 2 1955 Hand built - hand filed drivers - >> > > > semi-vanderbilt tender >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 7 1956 Hand built - hand filed drivers - >> > > > semi-vanderbilt tender >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 6 1957 Hand built - hand scribed serial #s on >> > > > top of rear fram & or under the pilot >> > > As we are talking about a model that shows up quite often its >> > > unlikely >> > > its a PFM ... however it is possible all or at least several those >> > > came >> > > from the same factory. >> > > > MBA (M .B. Austin) Qty: 30 1958 Unpainted >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: ? 1959 Semi-vanderbilt tender >> > > > >> > > > For the IMP ones listed in this book, I don't know if it is the >> > > > "early" style or not. But the description of wood and velvet boxes >> > > > might be useful if you have a box. And while no year listed, they >> > > > are >> > > > probably in the 1950's. >> > > The 1956 Imperial catalog definitely shows a picture of an early >> > > Challenger. >> > > > >> > > > I think it is very unlikely that this is scratchbuilt. >> > > > >> > > > My guess is that it is probably either the IMP or M. B. Austin (and >> > > > these might very well have come from the same place anyway) if only >> > > > the rear engine is powered. >> > > At least my loco, which is apparently identical to Michael's , has >> > > both >> > > engines powered. Doesnt look as this was a later modification. >> > > >> > > Chuck, from your post I guess you havent read my previous message ( >> > > the >> > > one with the attachments showing my Challenger) - wonder if it got >> > > lost >> > > somehow? >> > > >> > > Gerold >> > > >> > > Just found a picture of an Tenshodo Challenger.... attached. It >> > > matches >> > > the picture in PFM catalog #1. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19135	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine

Jake,     Sorry I have been under the weather and today is the first up out of bed for 36 hours. I can tell you I don't deal with  sheet brass like Gem, Akane,  to much.  Sorry I can't offer help on this .                                                    Jim H On 4/28/2012 9:41 AM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   I'd like to get Jim Heckard's input here. This appears to have all 12 drivers powered, the front engine by a long flexable tube from the rear driver set, lead truck appears to be a replacement. Tenshodo from pre 1954 -55 would have been mostly hand made by Mr. Tenshodo himself, usually - at least as late as 1953, pre-ordered and built from photos and drawings supplied by the customer. This could be a Akane/Gem/Imperial from the early 50's especially if it is a smooth runner, they seemed to spend more time on their running gear and motors at the time and the flex connection to the front engine was a system Akane used. The turned and coined add-ons was also typical of Akane. The super detailing using castings began to show up after a US modeler detailed his PFM Tenshodo Big Boy using castings that he personally made the masters for and then these master became available to all - The Cal Scale super detail kits for the Challenger and Big Boy produced by both Cal Scale and Bowser was a package of those details so I would place this as pre-1957. Where are you Jim? Jake Bechtel On 4/28/12, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: > M. B. "Bart" Austin had a shop "Trains, Nothing But Trains" in San Mateo, > California--on the San Francisco Peninsula. He had a poor attitude towards > > customers-- "If you can find it we have it". (as a teenager I used to go > there once I had access to a car) His locos might have been considered > "State of the Art" for the time. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine > > Greetings all. I am looking to sell this engine. If you follow the thread, > > it is not totally clear who the manufacturer is and I am at a loss as to how > > much to ask for it. The photo is in the Allman Trains folder. If anyone is > > interested shoot me an email and we will see what we can arrange. If anyone > > has a suggestion for a place to sell this I am open to suggestions. > > Thanks > > Michael Allman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Michael G. Allman" <mgallman@...> wrote: >> >> Ok, I am adding the photos of the front drive train. It is also powered. >> >> I >> have also include pictures of the box. The only marking is on the bottom >> saying "Made in Japan". >> >> Notice in the box, the bag of coal for the tender. >> >> >> >> Someone mentioned another forum with more experts? Where might I go next >> >> to >> get further info? >> >> >> >> Michael Allman >> >> >> >> From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf >> Of ckinzer@... >> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 11:01 PM >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine >> >> >> >> >> >> Both of the underside closeup photos of an engine seem to be of the rear >> engine. So I don't think it can be determined from the photos if the >> front >> engine is powered. It would help to know. >> >> >> >> Chuck K. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: bongiovanni12001 <mailto:bongiovanni1@...> >> >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> >> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:48 PM >> >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Brass Engine >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I get this list in digest form, and was all set to provide my guess, but >> Gerold and my friend Chuck Kinzer beat me to it. >> >> If If If I'm looking at the pictures correctly, both engines are powered. >> IIRC, again, M B Austin and another importer (a So Cal hobby shop??)split >> >> an >> order of c24 of these in the mid-late 1950's. I had one that was thought >> to >> be an Austin pass through my hands about 35 years ago, and the pictures >> sure >> look like my memory of that. If I had to bet, I'd say M B Austin, rather >> than LMB. If you really need better info, there are two brass lists where >> real experts reside. >> >> And from what I recall, it was ahead of it's time in detail, had >> reasonable >> running characteristics, and is worth more than you might think to the >> collectors of early brass. >> >> Thank you for posting the pictures and provoking this discussion. >> >> Frank Bongiovanni (returning to work on some Akane). >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , >> "trainliker" <ckinzer@> wrote: >> > >> > Yes. Compared to today's standards early Tenshodo (and I have some) is >> "crude". So is early everything. But I have yet to see one quite as basic >> >> as >> the IMP. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I've just never seen one. >> I'm >> always open to be shown some source to prove it. >> > >> > Chuck Kinzer >> > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , >> Gerold Eckl <corv8@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Also, it is the most "crude", shall we say, offering of a brass >> > > > challenger that I have ever seen a picture of. That's what makes me >> > > > think it is very, very early in the history of imported brass >> > > > models >> > > > and more at the end of the spectrum where IMP and M.B. austin were >> > > > and not LMB and especially not Tenshodo. It doesn't even have the >> > > > boiler feed pipe and check valves and the number boards are flat >> > > > slabs. This is pretty basic. I also don't think it is the LMB that >> > > > is mentioned below. >> > > Re crude ... some of the early Tenshodo models were **very ** crude >> > > by >> > > todays standards... maybe even more than the Challenger in question. >> > > Nevertheless they often sell at top prices. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > "Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon" 1974 has these listingsfor the >> > > > "early >> > > > type 3900 class Challenger" (I listed all years): >> > > > >> > > > M. B. Austin 1958 Qty: 30, 6 wheel powered >> > > > >> > > > PFM 1955-58; rumored a few were made >> > > > >> > > > LMB 1960 Qty: ?, 6 wheel powered >> > > > >> > > > Olympic Express 1960 >> > > > >> > > > Balboa 1964 50 pcs >> > > One of the main spotting features are the sander pipes -- there are >> > > several variations from one manufacturer to the others, International >> > > omitted them entirely ( If my guess that both mine and Michael's are >> > > Internationals. >> > > >> > > >> > > > There is a photo of the Olympic Express engine and it has better >> > > > detail. Also, it has a headlight on smokebox front. Probably ALL >> > > > models of the "early" challengers are like that so that probably >> > > > isn't >> >> > > > a worthwhile spotting feature) >> > > They all look that way, and all have this style of tender. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > The 2009 "Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide" shows: >> > > > >> > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Painted, wood box >> > > > IMP Year: ? Qty: ? Unpainted, velvet box >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 1 1954 Hand built >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 2 1955 Hand built - hand filed drivers - >> > > > semi-vanderbilt tender >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 7 1956 Hand built - hand filed drivers - >> > > > semi-vanderbilt tender >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: 6 1957 Hand built - hand scribed serial #s on >> > > > top of rear fram & or under the pilot >> > > As we are talking about a model that shows up quite often its >> > > unlikely >> > > its a PFM ... however it is possible all or at least several those >> > > came >> > > from the same factory. >> > > > MBA (M .B. Austin) Qty: 30 1958 Unpainted >> > > > PFM Tenshodo Qty: ? 1959 Semi-vanderbilt tender >> > > > >> > > > For the IMP ones listed in this book, I don't know if it is the >> > > > "early" style or not. But the description of wood and velvet boxes >> > > > might be useful if you have a box. And while no year listed, they >> > > > are >> > > > probably in the 1950's. >> > > The 1956 Imperial catalog definitely shows a picture of an early >> > > Challenger. >> > > > >> > > > I think it is very unlikely that this is scratchbuilt. >> > > > >> > > > My guess is that it is probably either the IMP or M. B. Austin (and >> > > > these might very well have come from the same place anyway) if only >> > > > the rear engine is powered. >> > > At least my loco, which is apparently identical to Michael's , has >> > > both >> > > engines powered. Doesnt look as this was a later modification. >> > > >> > > Chuck, from your post I guess you havent read my previous message ( >> > > the >> > > one with the attachments showing my Challenger) - wonder if it got >> > > lost >> > > somehow? >> > > >> > > Gerold >> > > >> > > Just found a picture of an Tenshodo Challenger.... attached. It >> > > matches >> > > the picture in PFM catalog #1. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19136	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Old Brass Engine

Hi JIm, Really sorry to hear that you havebeen down. Hope you are recovering well. I'll have to remember that you don't get into the other stuff much, guess I have just come to think of you as the "go-to" guy for vintage stuff. Best to you and take care of yourself. Jake On 4/28/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > Jake, > > Sorry I have been under the weather and today is the first up out > of bed for 36 hours. I can tell you I don't deal with sheet brass like > Gem, Akane, to much. Sorry I can't offer help on this . > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19137	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

All of you spring launchers -- and that probably includes most of us. Denny's suggestion of working within a clear plastic bag should usually work, except for those unfortunatye times when the spring will be sure to shoot straight out of the opening in the bag (and that's probably at least half of the time). I'm quite surprised though, not to see the old recommendation I read decades ago, of using a length of heavy white string threaded through the center of the spring, end to end. Then, when the spring goes flying, it will take the length of thread with it, which will be much easier to find. The spring should still be installed on the thread, as there's no way it can get off -- well, almost no way. Just use a very long piece of thread if necessary, to ensure the spring won't fly off the end of it. The heavy thread will prevent the spring from flying too far, also. After assembling, just slide the thread out of the spring and go on to the next one. You can also tie a knot at the ends of the thread after it's threaded through the spring. This will prevent even the most determined springs from flying out of the thread in flight. Not sure, but I think this was included as part of the directions for assembling American Beauty trucks; I'd have to check the directions to make sure. Could have just been a clue offered in MR back some 60 years ago, which just stuck with me. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19138	From: Tom Hare	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List

Good afternoon, I was wondering if anyone has a parts list/ instruction sheet for a vintage Walthers Piker. Sheet metal sides and wooden floor and roof. I checked HO seeker but he does not have one listed under the Walthers instructions. Thanks, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19139	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List

I'm sure I have some (HO and O, I assume you want HO) and can scan and send them as attachments to your email.  A little later today.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Hare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List   Good afternoon, I was wondering if anyone has a parts list/ instruction sheet for a vintage Walthers Piker. Sheet metal sides and wooden floor and roof. I checked HO seeker but he does not have one listed under the Walthers instructions. Thanks, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19140	From: Tom Hare	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List

Thanks Chuck. Yes, I need the HO instructions. Much appreciated.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2012, at 3:41 PM, <ckinzer@...> wrote:   I'm sure I have some (HO and O, I assume you want HO) and can scan and send them as attachments to your email.  A little later today.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Hare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage Walthers Piker Instructions Sheet/ Parts List   Good afternoon, I was wondering if anyone has a parts list/ instruction sheet for a vintage Walthers Piker. Sheet metal sides and wooden floor and roof. I checked HO seeker but he does not have one listed under the Walthers instructions. Thanks, Tom =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19141	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

The general line of Central Valley freight trucks, although enjoying a "premium" reputation for many years, turn out to really not be very good.  Their comparative rolling characteristics are very poor. The side frames are too thick and out of scale, and the cone-shaped bearing holes have a non-standard narrow angle that makes satisfactory wheel replacement difficult. However, for the standard CV AAR trucks wheel replacement  with Reboxx 1.015" or 1.020", roll ability can be consistently be improved close to three-fold.   The extremely narrow Reboxx axles seem to minimize the problems of non-standard bearing holes. As mentioned, the CV Fox-pattern trucks are at a premium, but probably only because they still are about the only such trucks available. Replacing passenger wheel sets:  Over the years, I have performed this on about 30 sets of the three axle trucks,  and the results are very satisfactory. As mentioned, replace the rivets by drilling off the top rivet flare, drive out the rivet with a 1/16th inch pin punch, drill clearance in the rivet holes for 2-56 screws through the top frame and elliptical spring casting, and finally 2-56 tap through the bolster rivet hole as is.  Use a suitably-sized sharp drill point to countersink the hole so that the head of the flat head 2-56 screws will not stand proud.  Secure the sides of the trucks with tape strips or Xacto clamps and you will not lose springs. Wheel replacement with the two axle passenger trucks is less predictable. The consistently best-performing and best looking replacement wheel/axle set for the three axle trucks is: Reboxx 36" 1.020" axle length sest  for the outside axles, and a single 1.015" axle for the middle.  This combination consistently ensures about a three-fold improvement in tested roll ability. Although still personally preferring the old sprung Kadee trucks, the new Kadee trucks are receiving a very good reception among the critical  prototype modelers. They have unusual engineering, but  mechanical, casting, and detail qualities leave little to be objectively critical about. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19142	From: Garry Spear	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Varney Yellowstone on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261011715103 I think this is a Varney Yellowstone for the Varney collectors.  Misidentified. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19143	From: Nelson	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

Unless of course the spring goes flying while you're trying to thread it. ;) I use the plastic baggie method for removing brushes in motors with tightly compressed coil springs, which you can aim toward the inside of the bag. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > All of you spring launchers -- and that probably includes most of us. > Denny's suggestion of working within a clear plastic bag should usually work, > except for those unfortunatye times when the spring will be sure to shoot > straight out of the opening in the bag (and that's probably at least half of the > time). I'm quite surprised though, not to see the old recommendation I > read decades ago, of using a length of heavy white string threaded through the > center of the spring, end to end. Then, when the spring goes flying, it > will take the length of thread with it, which will be much easier to find. The > spring should still be installed on the thread, as there's no way it can > get off -- well, almost no way. Just use a very long piece of thread if > necessary, to ensure the spring won't fly off the end of it. The heavy thread > will prevent the spring from flying too far, also. After assembling, just > slide the thread out of the spring and go on to the next one. You can also tie > a knot at the ends of the thread after it's threaded through the spring. > This will prevent even the most determined springs from flying out of the > thread in flight. Not sure, but I think this was included as part of the > directions for assembling American Beauty trucks; I'd have to check the > directions to make sure. Could have just been a clue offered in MR back some 60 > years ago, which just stuck with me. > > Ray Wetzel</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19144	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks

Use a needle to thread the springs. Don't do it the hard way. As for threading the needle, there are needle threaders that work very well. Walter On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   Unless of course the spring goes flying while you're trying to thread it. ;) I use the plastic baggie method for removing brushes in motors with tightly compressed coil springs, which you can aim toward the inside of the bag. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > All of you spring launchers -- and that probably includes most of us. > Denny's suggestion of working within a clear plastic bag should usually work, > except for those unfortunatye times when the spring will be sure to shoot > straight out of the opening in the bag (and that's probably at least half of the > time). I'm quite surprised though, not to see the old recommendation I > read decades ago, of using a length of heavy white string threaded through the > center of the spring, end to end. Then, when the spring goes flying, it > will take the length of thread with it, which will be much easier to find. The > spring should still be installed on the thread, as there's no way it can > get off -- well, almost no way. Just use a very long piece of thread if > necessary, to ensure the spring won't fly off the end of it. The heavy thread > will prevent the spring from flying too far, also. After assembling, just > slide the thread out of the spring and go on to the next one. You can also tie > a knot at the ends of the thread after it's threaded through the spring. > This will prevent even the most determined springs from flying out of the > thread in flight. Not sure, but I think this was included as part of the > directions for assembling American Beauty trucks; I'd have to check the > directions to make sure. Could have just been a clue offered in MR back some 60 > years ago, which just stuck with me. > > Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19145	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Yellowstone on ebay

Well at least I know if I bid, it will be someone on this group I will be bidding against now.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Yellowstone on ebay   http://www.ebay.com/itm/261011715103 I think this is a Varney Yellowstone for the Varney collectors.  Misidentified. Garry Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19146	From: Wally	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: A scratch built Hall Scott railcar

I'm thinning my collection and one of the pieces I want sell is a scratch built Hall Scott railcar. The prototype was sold to the Lowville & Beaver River RR in 1916 and the model is lettered for the L&BR. The model is based on a plan from a 1970 issue of Model Railroader magazine and the gentleman who scratch built this model stamped his name on the inside of the roof of the car. The workmanship is reasonably good but the paint is showing its age. The car has a 5 pole open frame motor and the power truck is spring belt driven, typical of models from that era and I would estimate the car is about 35 years old. I would like $75 for the model and wanted to offer it to the group before I list it on eBay. Pictures of the car are in my folder, "Wally" If you're interested, please contact me off line at dim01521@... Thanks!! Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19147	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Varney And Gilbert HO

Hello, My name is Richard Carbo. I have been a train collector for more than 20 years. I have decided to concentrate my collecting efforts on Pre-war American Flyer and intend to sell my collection of Gilbert HO and Varney HO. My Varney is mostly the steel sided box cars, reefers and flat cars along with some of the paper/wood items and some of the plastic cars. Please contact me if you have interest. Thanks. Richard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19148	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: Car list spread sheets

Hello to all, I am very glad to find the Forum. I am building 8 Ulrich Peaked Double Hoppers, P/N SH5 335. These kits I purchased at a train show. The roadname is N&W with car #22050. They came with sprung trucks, no couplers. I will install Kadee #23's in the original draft gearbox. This takes me back to building trains with my Dad in the 60's, I get all warm and fuzzy scraping the flash like old times! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > Oops . . . I meant boxcars only and it was a bad way for me to put it.  On top of that I was wrong -- Ulrich also made a double sheathed boxcar using the same superstructure.  The outside braced boxcar had cast bracing backed with scribed wood, which made it easy to produce a stock car which they did, > > > > Ulrich made die cast triple and twin hoppers, a couple of fla t cars (varying underframes), a really nice drop b ottom gondola (I have a small herd of them, letered for my own road) , a 50 foot war emergency gondola, the track cleaner, and the tractor trailer sets . > >   > John B. Allyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "willard seehorn" <wseehorn@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 7:09:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets > >   > > > > > If I recall correctly (I'm working from memory and have  - correclty  - been accused of working without tools when I do this: I think that Ulrich did make (metal) hoppers.  I know they made a track cleaning car kit as I assembled one and still have parts of it around somewhere. I think they also made tractor/trailer kits. > > Willard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john.allyn@... > Sent: Apr 9, 2012 7:32 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car list spread sheets > > > Except for a craftsman kit in the early 60's (Frisco), I believe that Ulrich made only outside braced boxcars.  Roundhouse used its standard boxcar superstructure to make a variety of boxcars, simply by changing the side panels.  Your Santa Fe panel box was one of the variations. > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19149	From: Lon	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Hi All, I hope someone can shorten my search for instructions for a metal kit, 50' double door box car. It has a wood floor but every thing else is metal. I don't know the maker and there are so many names on HO Seeker. The metal roof walk is held on with four bolts with very thick nuts and has a very large hump in the middle. Both sides say ROUTE OF THE "ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL". and AUTOMOBILE-FURNITURE. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19150	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

I have a friend that has one of those.  I am almost positive it is a Varney.  I don't remember it being a double door, I am not sure the prototype ever had double doors, but it may have.  The ONLY cars that sported the Blossom Time Special, were the B-7 series turtleback cars with the round roofs.  My friends is definitely a rounded roof.  Here is a prototype photo. http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SALB-7Flyer.htm Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 02:30:38 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Hi All, I hope someone can shorten my search for instructions for a metal kit, 50' double door box car. It has a wood floor but every thing else is metal. I don't know the maker and there are so many names on HO Seeker. The metal roof walk is held on with four bolts with very thick nuts and has a very large hump in the middle. Both sides say ROUTE OF THE "ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL". and AUTOMOBILE-FURNITURE. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19151	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Sorry, I meant to send this link.  It definitely has double doors. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/28NYC.jpg Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 02:30:38 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Hi All, I hope someone can shorten my search for instructions for a metal kit, 50' double door box car. It has a wood floor but every thing else is metal. I don't know the maker and there are so many names on HO Seeker. The metal roof walk is held on with four bolts with very thick nuts and has a very large hump in the middle. Both sides say ROUTE OF THE "ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL". and AUTOMOBILE-FURNITURE. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19152	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Victor,   This car has the rounded roof as you said but it is a fifty foot car with double doors. Thanks for the link to the pictures though. I really like the yard scene.   Lon walker From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:42 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   I have a friend that has one of those.  I am almost positive it is a Varney.  I don't remember it being a double door, I am not sure the prototype ever had double doors, but it may have.  The ONLY cars that sported the Blossom Time Special, were the B-7 series turtleback cars with the round roofs.  My friends is definitely a rounded roof.  Here is a prototype photo. http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SALB-7Flyer.htm Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 02:30:38 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Hi All, I hope someone can shorten my search for instructions for a metal kit, 50' double door box car. It has a wood floor but every thing else is metal. I don't know the maker and there are so many names on HO Seeker. The metal roof walk is held on with four bolts with very thick nuts and has a very large hump in the middle. Both sides say ROUTE OF THE "ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL". and AUTOMOBILE-FURNITURE. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19153	From: Lon Walker	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Victor,  That is the car. Now I just need to find who made the kit and find a copy of the instructions. Thanks.  Lon From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:47 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Sorry, I meant to send this link.  It definitely has double doors. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/28NYC.jpg | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: New Members 2 New Photos 4 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19154	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

On 4/30/2012 9:59 PM, Lon Walker wrote:    Victor,  That is the car. Now I just need to find who made the kit and find a copy of the instructions. Thanks.  Lon From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:47 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Sorry, I meant to send this link.  It definitely has double doors. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/28NYC.jpg | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: New Members 2 New Photos 4 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . If it has the round roof it is probably Athearn.  Take a look at this, see if it matches.   http://www.hoseeker.org/athearninstructionscars1950/athearn4050roundroofaarboxcar1950.jpg -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19155	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Lon, Your 50' round roof double door SAL #10096 automobile furniture car is an Athearn production. HO Seeker should have plans for this kit. If not, I could snail mail you a copy if you want to sent me your mailing address. Ray Wetzel -- erieberk@... </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19156	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Hi Don, I have a car very similar, mine is a DT&I, I believe.  I can't recall right now.  I did use the HOSEEKER instructions you posted to build mine, but it wasn't quite the same, not exactly.  I suspect Athearn probably made minor changes along the way.  My car was missing the truck bolsters, but I made some from styrene.  It is on the railroad working as it should.  It wasn't the easiest thing in the world to install Kadee couplers and I spent some time with the Dremel and did get them installed very nicely.  Since I bought mine loose for about $3, no trucks were supplied and I used Tichy plastic trucks with metal wheelsets.  This should prevent any unwanted shorts when coupled to other metal cars. Recently, I have received some VERY nice Orange Blossom Special decals and now am hunting for a car that resembles the B-7 turtle roof boxcar.  Bower makes a very acceptable one, I think I may go with that.  If I find an Athearn junker, ie. body is good, but paint is bad, I would jump on that instead.  I wouldn't be picking one up with a bunch of missing or dented parts.  I go to enough train shows, maybe I will get lucky? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: wlon17@... From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 06:53:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   On 4/30/2012 9:59 PM, Lon Walker wrote:    Victor,  That is the car. Now I just need to find who made the kit and find a copy of the instructions. Thanks.  Lon From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:47 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Sorry, I meant to send this link.  It definitely has double doors. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/28NYC.jpg | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: New Members 2 New Photos 4 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . If it has the round roof it is probably Athearn.  Take a look at this, see if it matches.   http://www.hoseeker.org/athearninstructionscars1950/athearn4050roundroofaarboxcar1950.jpg -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19157	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Thank you Don. That looks like what I need. I got it in a Varney box with the end discription not matching the car but could not find it under Varney.  Lon Walker From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Lon Walker <wlon17@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   On 4/30/2012 9:59 PM, Lon Walker wrote:    Victor,  That is the car. Now I just need to find who made the kit and find a copy of the instructions. Thanks.  Lon From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:47 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Sorry, I meant to send this link.  It definitely has double doors. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/28NYC.jpg | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: New Members 2 New Photos 4 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . If it has the round roof it is probably Athearn.  Take a look at this, see if it matches.   http://www.hoseeker.org/athearninstructionscars1950/athearn4050roundroofaarboxcar1950.jpg -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19158	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Re: ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture

Hi Ray,  Thanks for the offer but Don sent a link to what I need. I think the kit is complete except for one door that I will have to look for.  Thanks again.  Lon Walker From: "erieberk@..." <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID 50' SEABOARD 10096 automobile-furniture   Lon, Your 50' round roof double door SAL #10096 automobile furniture car is an Athearn production. HO Seeker should have plans for this kit. If not, I could snail mail you a copy if you want to sent me your mailing address. Ray Wetzel -- erieberk@... </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19159	From: Wally	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: 2 Kwrtz Kraft boxcar kits for sale

While I only recently bought these, I now know I won't ever build them so I wanted to offer these two Kwrtz Kraft boxcar kits to the group before I put them on eBay. $3 each plus postage. Pictures are in my folder "Wally". If I don't hear by week's end, I'll list them on eBay. If you're interested, please contact me off line at dim01521@.... Thanks Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19161	From: Charlie	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Vintage (& other) HO Model Railroad Supplies

Hi everyone. Want to bring to your attention the range of vintage kitsets still being manufactured and items now available at www.phillipsmodels.co.nz.  I know some of these items outside this groups interest but am sure you will enjoy a visit to the site. A New Zealand company which has purchased several New Zealand vintage manufacturers (including SouthDock, Railmaster etc) These are old established brands from way back.  Now produced under PhillipsModels brand. Take a look and you will see a wide range of products suitable for HO and other scales.  Parts etc for these are still available. Also look at the replica vintage advertising signs and paintings etc You will see lineside/trackside scenic accessories including: machinery, workshop equipment, livestock (including chooks/chickens!! just what you need), figurines, doors, windows. A lot of these items also suitable for OO/HO layouts. Look at the tools, wide range of brick/stone papers in various scales. Lots of New Zealand Railway rolling stock kitsets, passenger and freight. Take a look at these, you may be talked into NZR modelling! An item that compliments all the other products is the Downloadable buildings. These are in several scales (S N TT OO HO etc) and a wide range of structures, and more coming! Best value for money these are. Download and make up a kit, or several kits. Made using top quality card and you print off the finishing layer, some in brick and other materials. Easy to kitbash to suit your layout and room available. Have just purchased the Railmaster range of S products, and rolling stock, and these will be online soon. Contact Adrian on adrian@... for any enquiries on Railmaster products coming up. Keep a lookout for locomotives coming up also. Got you interested ? There has been a thread running on Yahoo group re what you modelers would like to see modeled. Well let us know, we are in the International market and want to meet your requirements. Go here and let us know loco ideas. http://www.survs.com/survey/QT7GAIT3JD?utm_source=Phillips%27+Models+Railway+Modelling+Newsletter&utm_campaign=1d250058fe-kitset-survey-2012&utm_medium=email As you can see we do things right and using the best people for development. Will love to see your input to survey. All contact details also on our web page. Dont forget to join our mailing list and Facebook etc and see our webpages. Thanks for your ear. Adrian Phillips Phillips Models New Zealand

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19162	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Fwd: a little progress

Attachments : IMG_7900.JPG IMG_7899.JPG IMG_7896.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: a little progress Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 14:16:46 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Got a little more done on the pre war HH600 Walthers . I got the motor in and hooked up and running but don't want to run much as it is a 6-8 volt motor. I don't have the top screwed on to pull it down to mesh with the body better. It will probablybe the last thing I will do . I was able to get the original pre war couplers on and the little covers underneath the couplers made and mounted. I got two of the ladders on and will get the other two hopefully tonight. My problem is making the 4 strap steps. On the Bronze version they were 8 straight pieces hanging down the front and back of the pilots with the steps attached. I didn't have originals and I'm trying to match them but no luck yet ( the latter cast lead model has a different set up by the plans ). I still didn't find the original plans for this bronze version. I'm still looking for a match of the front side frames to the back. Till I find the front truck will have a set from the later model as there is a difference there too. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19163	From: jim kellow	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Need to contact the owner of Underground Railway Press

Anyone have an email or telephone number for the Underground Railway Press.  I have several questions I need to talk to the owner before I order.  Thanks for the help.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19164	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19165	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. Art W   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19166	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

Problem is wiring in the unit. Cannot get it to run with power applied to wheels. Power to motor works ok if I disconnect front pick up.   From: luvprr@... Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0     You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. Art W   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19167	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

Which pickup exactly? In any case it's almost for sure you've picked up something that's shorting the two sides of the loco together. Wiring is very rarely at fault. This sounds like a loco that's in two halves and insulated from each other so that the tender is not necessary to run the loco. If so the short could be anywhere along those halves and disconnecting the pickup bypasses the short. Have to see it as I've not done Rivarossi locos in quite a while.   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Problem is wiring in the unit. Cannot get it to run with power applied to wheels. Power to motor works ok if I disconnect front pick up.   From: luvprr@... Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0     You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. Art W   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19168	From: tom leen	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

What exactly do you mean by the front pick-up.  Is it the pilot truck?  If you're talking about the pilot truck maybe at some time in the past one of the axles popped out of the truck and it was re-installed with the insulated wheel on the wrong side.  --- On Fri, 5/4/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 12:35 AM   Which pickup exactly? In any case it's almost for sure you've picked up something that's shorting the two sides of the loco together. Wiring is very rarely at fault. This sounds like a loco that's in two halves and insulated from each other so that the tender is not necessary to run the loco. If so the short could be anywhere along those halves and disconnecting the pickup bypasses the short. Have to see it as I've not done Rivarossi locos in quite a while.   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Problem is wiring in the unit. Cannot get it to run with power applied to wheels. Power to motor works ok if I disconnect front pick up.   From: luvprr@... Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0     You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. Art W   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19169	From: tom leen	Date: 5/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

As think about this, if the insulated wheels are both on the same side on the pilot truck, then it's also possible that the pilot truck itself somehow twisted 180 degrees on its pivot and therefore is causing the short.  See if you can turn the truck around 180 degrees or if that's not possible, reverse both wheelsets in the truck so that the insulated wheels are on the opposite side.  --- On Fri, 5/4/12, tom leen <luvs2drive@...> wrote: From: tom leen <luvs2drive@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 1:51 AM   What exactly do you mean by the front pick-up.  Is it the pilot truck?  If you're talking about the pilot truck maybe at some time in the past one of the axles popped out of the truck and it was re-installed with the insulated wheel on the wrong side.  --- On Fri, 5/4/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 12:35 AM   Which pickup exactly? In any case it's almost for sure you've picked up something that's shorting the two sides of the loco together. Wiring is very rarely at fault. This sounds like a loco that's in two halves and insulated from each other so that the tender is not necessary to run the loco. If so the short could be anywhere along those halves and disconnecting the pickup bypasses the short. Have to see it as I've not done Rivarossi locos in quite a while.   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Problem is wiring in the unit. Cannot get it to run with power applied to wheels. Power to motor works ok if I disconnect front pick up.   From: luvprr@... Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0     You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. Art W   In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19170	From: Gary	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

Hi, My Experience with Rivarossi locos, all of the wheelsets are used for power pickup, including ant pilot and trailing trucks, disconnect the pickup from the pilot truck and see what happens, bet the wheel set is in backwards! Gary W --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Robert Driggers" <robertanned@...> wrote: > > Problem is wiring in the unit. Cannot get it to run with power applied to wheels. Power to motor works ok if I disconnect front pick up. > > From: luvprr@... > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:10 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 > > > > You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. > Art W > > In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: > > > > Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19171	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After

Attachments : 6994534232_29354351d7_o.jpg 6518640511_bfb7bcb849_o.jpg 6169127656_01768fd582_o.jpg Hey Guys, Just wanted to share another locomotive of mine that has been reborn! Please see the attached & photos below: Comments more than welcome!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19172	From: Charles	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After

This must be a trick. I know that can't be the same engine because the cab number is different. (Just kidding!) Verrry interesting photos that illustrate what is possible. It makes you wonder what happened during the models life span. I was just wondering if you asked the Mystic Seer in the background of one of the photos if you should attempt this? Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > Just wanted to share another locomotive of mine that has been reborn! Please see the attached & photos below: > > Comments more than welcome! >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19173	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After

Attachments : 6169347464_2abfc20948_o.jpg Hi Chuck, LOL! I saw that too! The seller told me the entire collection sat out on the back porch of someone in California... for decades I assume by the condition: I purchased these two lots off of the same seller two years in a row: First set (link of unrestored models & the two restored locos below): http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625254900663/ PFM Heisler Restoration -... Kosmos Timber Company's #11... & This was the second set as I received it: Almost all that are not circled have since been restored. The top brass challenger I used as payment for the restorations: HO SCALE BRASS PFM UNITED -... PFM Heisler Restoration -... HO SCALE BRASS PFM UNITED -... HOn3 4-6-0 Brass 10-Wheeler... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Charles <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 1:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After   This must be a trick. I know that can't be the same engine because the cab number is different. (Just kidding!) Verrry interesting photos that illustrate what is possible. It makes you wonder what happened during the models life span. I was just wondering if you asked the Mystic Seer in the background of one of the photos if you should attempt this? Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > Just wanted to share another locomotive of mine that has been reborn! Please see the attached & photos below: > > Comments more than welcome! >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19174	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After [3 Attachmen

Sean,     Hell of a job. Just Beautiful. Big difference before and after. Another engine to be proud of.                                                       Jim H On 5/4/2012 12:05 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hey Guys, Just wanted to share another locomotive of mine that has been reborn! Please see the attached & photos below: Comments more than welcome!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19175	From: Nelson	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0

I would check for one set of drivers (or the pilot truck wheels if they have any pickup, but I don't think they do) installed backwards causing the short. The Riv 2-8-8-0 is just a Y6b without the trailing truck. The rear engine picks up one rail, and the front engine the other, like the later run Y6's. http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahmbuildersbiblepage055.jpg Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, tom leen <luvs2drive@...> wrote: > > As think about this, if the insulated wheels are both on the same side on the pilot truck, then it's also possible that the pilot truck itself somehow twisted 180 degrees on its pivot and therefore is causing the short.  See if you can turn the truck around 180 degrees or if that's not possible, reverse both wheelsets in the truck so that the insulated wheels are on the opposite side.  > > --- On Fri, 5/4/12, tom leen <luvs2drive@...> wrote: > > > From: tom leen <luvs2drive@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 1:51 AM > > > >   > > > > > > > > What exactly do you mean by the front pick-up.  Is it the pilot truck?  If you're talking about the pilot truck maybe at some time in the past one of the axles popped out of the truck and it was re-installed with the insulated wheel on the wrong side.  > > --- On Fri, 5/4/12, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: > > > From: luvprr@... <luvprr@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 12:35 AM > > > >   > > > Which pickup exactly? In any case it's almost for sure you've picked up something that's shorting the two sides of the loco together. Wiring is very rarely at fault. This sounds like a loco that's in two halves and insulated from each other so that the tender is not necessary to run the loco. If so the short could be anywhere along those halves and disconnecting the pickup bypasses the short. Have to see it as I've not done Rivarossi locos in quite a while. >   > > In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: > > > > > > Problem is wiring in the unit. Cannot get it to run with power applied to wheels. Power to motor works ok if I disconnect front pick up. > > >   > > From: luvprr@... > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:10 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 >   >   > > > You've probably been using steel wool to clean the track. Shorts out the motor every time. > Art W >   > > In a message dated 5/3/2012 8:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robertanned@... writes: > > > > > > > Can anyone give directions on how to wire a Rivarossi B&O 2-8-8-0 that has engine pick up not tender pick up. Can not figure it out. Mine keeps shorting out >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19176	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: Slightly off Topic Pacific Fast Mail II

Lennard Stewart wrote: Hi Everyone The club I am a member of has gotten the privilege of Operating and Maintaining a 12' x 48' HO Layout. But we have a problem it has two blocks and each one is Controlled by a Pacific Fast Mail II system and none of us are sure how it operates. If anyone has a operators manual or Instruction booklet on this please contact me off list at lennard@... and incase yahoo cuts that one off it is lennard ATetexdotnet Thanks in advance.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19177	From: hspanier@aol.com	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After

I am an admirerer of the work done by many of the members of this group. The Tenshodo restoration is a perfect example. Bringing these HO treasures back is truly a labor of love. This was a great peace when introduced and once again it has attained this honor. Well done.   Mike Spanier

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19178	From: John H	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Interesting eBay auction

Wanna see something interesting? Check eBay auction #180869662609. Two Hobbytown powered plastic GP30's (I believe them to be Athearn shells) and seven corrugated passenger cars, said to be metal bodies on wood floors. All painted green and gold (but not the Green Bay packers hues) and lettered "Eager Beaver Short Line". Asking price? 708.74. Supposedly reduced from $944 and change. Just for fun can anyone ID the passenger cars? Also look at his other items. Included is a brass Baldwin switcher in a nicely fitted out cigar box, which he displays very prominently. I don't know where he gets his prices but I'll bet they all go for "Best Offer" instead of the asking price. This is the guy that has had a Aristo-Craft brass 0-6-6-0 on eBay for sometime at $660.00 or so. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19179	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

On 5/5/2012 11:24 AM, John H wrote: > Wanna see something interesting? Check eBay auction #180869662609. Two Hobbytown powered plastic GP30's (I believe them to be Athearn shells) and seven corrugated passenger cars, said to be metal bodies on wood floors. All painted green and gold (but not the Green Bay packers hues) and lettered "Eager Beaver Short Line". Asking price? 708.74. Supposedly reduced from $944 and change. Just for fun can anyone ID the passenger cars? > > Also look at his other items. Included is a brass Baldwin switcher in a nicely fitted out cigar box, which he displays very prominently. I don't know where he gets his prices but I'll bet they all go for "Best Offer" instead of the asking price. This is the guy that has had a Aristo-Craft brass 0-6-6-0 on eBay for sometime at $660.00 or so. > > John Hagen > > > The passenger cars are Herkimer. You can tell by the shape of the opening where the dome insert is, the poor proportions of the vestibule doors, the cast ends (which eliminates Kasiner) and the stock Herkimer trucks. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19180	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

I never thought of Herkimer but that fits in.   So you have two Athearn GP30's with Hobbytown drives (useful drives for sure) along with seven Herkimer cars all painted in an un-prototype scheme that looks un-prototypical. All for only $708.74.     This is one I'm gonna watch just to see what happens.   John Hagen     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 11:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: John H Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting eBay auction The passenger cars are Herkimer. You can tell by the shape of the opening where the dome insert is, the poor proportions of the vestibule doors, the cast ends (which eliminates Kasiner) and the stock Herkimer trucks. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19181	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

On 5/5/2012 11:56 AM, John Hagen wrote: I never thought of Herkimer but that fits in.   So you have two Athearn GP30's with Hobbytown drives (useful drives for sure) along with seven Herkimer cars all painted in an un-prototype scheme that looks un-prototypical. All for only $708.74.     This is one I'm gonna watch just to see what happens.   John Hagen   This is the message I wrote to the seller   The passenger cars are Herkimer OK brand. These were retools of earlier Kasiner cars, and were originally offered ca. 1959 or do, and are still made today. They currently go for around $ 20.00 each, the "custom paint" probably actually LOWERS their value. The locomotives are Athearn shells on a Hobbytown "universal" chassis. This chassis was offered throughout the 1960's, the Athearn model was introduced around 1961, discontinued about 1970 when the manufacturing dies were damaged. I generally see the Hobbytown chassis alone selling for around $50, the Athearn shells something less, as they're not all that rare. Again, the non-standard paint does probably more harm than good to the value. I am not personally interested in making an offer, as I already have a large number of the Herkimer cars, and the GP-30 is currently available in much more accurate versions today. You can charge what you will, but I did think you might like to know exactly what you have -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19182	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

I have the same issue with guys selling brass.  There is a PFM/United Vulcan Duplex with a buy it now price of $700.  In the past few months several examples of the same model have come up for auction and both sold for around $350.  Another person has a badly painted PFM/United ATSF Consolidation with the wrong tender with a buy it now price around $400.  O ther copies of this model with the correct tender are selling for $125 -$175.  Then my all time favorite is the person selling a set of 4 Westwood passenger car kits with a Buy it Now price around $390.  Those particular Westwood kits are not all that rare and usually sell for around $35-$55 each.  Where do these people get their prices? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Wanna see something interesting? Check eBay auction #180869662609. Two Hobbytown powered plastic GP30's (I believe them to be Athearn shells) and seven corrugated passenger cars, said to be metal bodies on wood floors. All painted green and gold (but not the Green Bay packers hues) and lettered "Eager Beaver Short Line". Asking price? 708.74. Supposedly reduced from $944 and change. Just for fun can anyone ID the passenger cars? > > Also look at his other items. Included is a brass Baldwin switcher in a nicely fitted out cigar box, which he displays very prominently. I don't know where he gets his prices but I'll bet they all go for "Best Offer" instead of the asking price. This is the guy that has had a Aristo-Craft brass 0-6-6-0 on eBay for sometime at $660.00 or so. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19183	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

Well, Time will tell. Some sellers really appreciate having people give proper or additional information on what they’re attempting to sell and others do not. I doubt you’ll see much of a change in this listing.   That’s why I keep these things in my watch list. They’re fun to watch.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 12:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting eBay auction       This is the message I wrote to the seller   The passenger cars are Herkimer OK brand. These were retools of earlier Kasiner cars, and were originally offered ca. 1959 or do, and are still made today. They currently go for around $ 20.00 each, the "custom paint" probably actually LOWERS their value. The locomotives are Athearn shells on a Hobbytown "universal" chassis. This chassis was offered throughout the 1960's, the Athearn model was introduced around 1961, discontinued about 1970 when the manufacturing dies were damaged. I generally see the Hobbytown chassis alone selling for around $50, the Athearn shells something less, as they're not all that rare. Again, the non-standard paint does probably more harm than good to the value. I am not personally interested in making an offer, as I already have a large number of the Herkimer cars, and the GP-30 is currently available in much more accurate versions today. You can charge what you will, but I did think you might like to know exactly what you have -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19184	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

On 5/5/2012 12:32 PM, John Hagen wrote: Well, Time will tell. Some sellers really appreciate having people give proper or additional information on what they’re attempting to sell and others do not. I doubt you’ll see much of a change in this listing.   That’s why I keep these things in my watch list. They’re fun to watch.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 12:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting eBay auction       This is the message I wrote to the seller   The passenger cars are Herkimer OK brand. These were retools of earlier Kasiner cars, and were originally offered ca. 1959 or do, and are still made today. They currently go for around $ 20.00 each, the "custom paint" probably actually LOWERS their value. The locomotives are Athearn shells on a Hobbytown "universal" chassis. This chassis was offered throughout the 1960's, the Athearn model was introduced around 1961, discontinued about 1970 when the manufacturing dies were damaged. I generally see the Hobbytown chassis alone selling for around $50, the Athearn shells something less, as they're not all that rare. Again, the non-standard paint does probably more harm than good to the value. I am not personally interested in making an offer, as I already have a large number of the Herkimer cars, and the GP-30 is currently available in much more accurate versions today. You can charge what you will, but I did think you might like to know exactly what you have -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ The guy wrote back "Thanks for the info" Doubt we'll see a change in pricing though. -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19185	From: tom leen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After [3 Attachmen

Nice work Sean.  Looks incredible. Tom Leen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19186	From: tom leen	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Slightly off Topic Pacific Fast Mail II

Hi Lennard, If you go on Youtube and type in pacific fast mail II, there's a short video of someone actually using one of these sound systems.  Looks pretty incredible. Tom Leen --- On Sat, 5/5/12, Lennard Stewart <lennard@...> wrote: From: Lennard Stewart <lennard@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Slightly off Topic Pacific Fast Mail II To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 5, 2012, 4:06 AM   Lennard Stewart wrote: Hi Everyone The club I am a member of has gotten the privilege of Operating and Maintaining a 12' x 48' HO Layout. But we have a problem it has two blocks and each one is Controlled by a Pacific Fast Mail II system and none of us are sure how it operates. If anyone has a operators manual or Instruction booklet on this please contact me off list at lennard@... and incase yahoo cuts that one off it is lennard ATetexdotnet Thanks in advance.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19187	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

To me it is interesting from the point it is a homemade road name and the work looks pretty well done.  With all the work on the streamline cars including a train name, I would have expected streamliner engines.  Maybe some sort of cab units did exist for this.  Otherwise, it was an atypical choice of engines in my view.   Personalized things probably don't fetch much in the market (unless you were Jim Findley or "somebody" it seems).  But these were probably exceedingly special to who made them.  They are the sort of thing I feel are best left in the family as a memento if there is anyone in the family to get them or would care.   I always smile when I see a home-made road name and paint scheme.  The first HO I can really remember were were Athearn (probably actually Globe at the time) streamline cars at a friend's house.  They were his father's and had been painted blue with a yellow window stripe labeled "Grand Western".  (Canada's same VIA Rail scheme came later, I think.)  The paint work was so-so, but they surely did leave an impression on me.  I got hooked on HO as well as the Lionel I had grown up with.  Still hooked on both.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting eBay auction   On 5/5/2012 12:32 PM, John Hagen wrote: Well, Time will tell. Some sellers really appreciate having people give proper or additional information on what they’re attempting to sell and others do not. I doubt you’ll see much of a change in this listing. That’s why I keep these things in my watch list. They’re fun to watch. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 12:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting eBay auction     This is the message I wrote to the seller   The passenger cars are Herkimer OK brand. These were retools of earlier Kasiner cars, and were originally offered ca. 1959 or do, and are still made today. They currently go for around $ 20.00 each, the "custom paint" probably actually LOWERS their value. The locomotives are Athearn shells on a Hobbytown "universal" chassis. This chassis was offered throughout the 1960's, the Athearn model was introduced around 1961, discontinued about 1970 when the manufacturing dies were damaged. I generally see the Hobbytown chassis alone selling for around $50, the Athearn shells something less, as they're not all that rare. Again, the non-standard paint does probably more harm than good to the value. I am not personally interested in making an offer, as I already have a large number of the Herkimer cars, and the GP-30 is currently available in much more accurate versions today. You can charge what you will, but I did think you might like to know exactly what you have -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ The guy wrote back "Thanks for the info" Doubt we'll see a change in pricing though. -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19188	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

I have only been a group member for a short time, but I just want you to know I am very impressed with the knowledge level of the group. You guys really know your stuff. Kudos to all. Richard Carbo   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 12:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: John H Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Interesting eBay auction     On 5/5/2012 11:24 AM, John H wrote: > Wanna see something interesting? Check eBay auction #180869662609. Two Hobbytown powered plastic GP30's (I believe them to be Athearn shells) and seven corrugated passenger cars, said to be metal bodies on wood floors. All painted green and gold (but not the Green Bay packers hues) and lettered "Eager Beaver Short Line". Asking price? 708.74. Supposedly reduced from $944 and change. Just for fun can anyone ID the passenger cars? > > Also look at his other items. Included is a brass Baldwin switcher in a nicely fitted out cigar box, which he displays very prominently. I don't know where he gets his prices but I'll bet they all go for "Best Offer" instead of the asking price. This is the guy that has had a Aristo-Craft brass 0-6-6-0 on eBay for sometime at $660.00 or so. > > John Hagen > > > The passenger cars are Herkimer. You can tell by the shape of the opening where the dome insert is, the poor proportions of the vestibule doors, the cast ends (which eliminates Kasiner) and the stock Herkimer trucks. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19189	From: Jake Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Akane 4-4-0

Hi Gang, I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane before I open it up and start the rebuild? Contact me off list if any interest. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL jhbivusa at gmail dot com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19190	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

Judging by the differences in color (in the same photos) between the Geeps and the Herkimer cars, I would guess that the Geeps were NOT originally part of the consist. As Chuck noted, wagon-tops, with the matching paint and lettered for the Golden Beaver, would have been more appropriate, and may have, for whatever reason been separated from the Herkimers. Maybe the owners did want to keep them in memory of the creator of the free-lance Eager Beaver Short Line. Walter Bayer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19191	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0

Jake, Can you post pictures of what is there so everyone can see? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Hi Gang, > I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. > Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane before I open it up and start the rebuild? > > Contact me off list if any interest. > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > jhbivusa at gmail dot com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19192	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0

Hi Denny, I'm working on getting pictures now. The camera is on the charger. As I recall the factory painted model was a '50s release, by 1962 only the unfinished model was cataloged. I bought one of the factory painted units from Lloyds Hobby Shop in Baltimore around 1955 or so. Green tender and boiler, black smoke box and maroon cab. Akane said it was patterned after the Baldwin units. I remember that my year's model train budget was totally consumed by the 4-4-0 and a Ma & Pa 2-8-0. By the time I got home from the Navy in '62 the 2-8-0 had disapeared and the 4-4-0 was pretty beat up. I recall that the 4-4-0 had a "nickname" but I've forgotten what it was. Probably come to me in a year or two. Anyway, I'll try to get pics posted tonight so those who have never seen on ca see this one. These aren't super detailed with a stock of castings, most are basically one of a kind locos built in a small shop by a small company of WWII survivors. Jake On 5/6/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Jake, > > Can you post pictures of what is there so everyone can see? > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Gang, >> I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked > up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua > general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out > to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck > and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the > tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. >> Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or > alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane > before I open it up and start the rebuild? >> >> Contact me off list if any interest. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL >> >> jhbivusa at gmail dot com >> > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19193	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Finished

Attachments : IMG_7904.JPG IMG_7901.JPG I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the original builder did. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19194	From: jay matz	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]

From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 3:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Finished [2 Attachments] Jim Very nice work. You should be proud. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19195	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]

These look Great Jim. Another restoration that beats the original! Jake Bechtel Alabama On 5/6/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. > While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time > being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the > side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the > back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better > but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the > original builder did. > > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19196	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tenshodo 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Restoration Before & After

Wow Sean What a haul. Just too bad the stuff was so poorly cared for. Were the motors OK? Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19197	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0

Attachments : akane_4-4-0.jpg 050612134712.jpg 050612134636.jpg 050612134622.jpg 050612134608.jpg OK Group, this is my first attempt at adding attachments - sure hope that it works. I am attaching part of the 1962 catalog page that showed the 4-4-0 unpainted. By 1962 the original factory painted model was out of the catalog. In 1962 this was the lowest catalog priced Akane at $99. I don't remember what I paid for my first Akane 4-4-0 but it was a lot less. First the prices were lower in the fifties and second my dad worked part time at Lloyds Hobby Shop in Baltimore and got a great discount! My first job when I came home from the Navy in 1962 paid a whopping 85 CENTS an hour - so replacing my now mangled 4-4-0 was out of the question. The 8 pics of my grab bag Akane 4-4-0 are the original colors, there was no lettering on the original. Also, the original 50s painted version had a weight in the cab that filled the cab and the lead truck provided some of the electrical pickup. After some quick measurements, I think that the Mantua General lead can be subbed in while I look for the original. In the meantime I will also look for insulated one side 26" or 28" spoked wheelsets. While the original had no detailing on the lead truck, the early version Mantua truck has the springs represented. I couldn't find any dings or dents on this unit and all of the original parts except for the lead truck are accounted for. Any opinions on striping the paint and repainting in the original colors? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, Alabama On 5/6/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Jake, > > Can you post pictures of what is there so everyone can see? > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Gang, >> I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked > up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua > general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out > to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck > and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the > tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. >> Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or > alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane > before I open it up and start the rebuild? >> >> Contact me off list if any interest. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL >> >> jhbivusa at gmail dot com >> > >

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19198	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished

Jim, I can't remember whether you said you were going to paint the engine.  It looks terrific. John B. Allyn From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 3:38:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Finished   These look Great Jim. Another restoration that beats the original! Jake Bechtel Alabama On 5/6/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. > While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time > being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the > side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the > back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better > but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the > original builder did. > > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19199	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0 [9 Attachments]

You might want to check out the Early Rails and Civil War Rails groups on sale prospects. John B. Allyn From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:16:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Akane 4-4-0 [9 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jacob Bechtel included below] OK Group, this is my first attempt at adding attachments - sure hope that it works. I am attaching part of the 1962 catalog page that showed the 4-4-0 unpainted. By 1962 the original factory painted model was out of the catalog. In 1962 this was the lowest catalog priced Akane at $99. I don't remember what I paid for my first Akane 4-4-0 but it was a lot less. First the prices were lower in the fifties and second my dad worked part time at Lloyds Hobby Shop in Baltimore and got a great discount! My first job when I came home from the Navy in 1962 paid a whopping 85 CENTS an hour - so replacing my now mangled 4-4-0 was out of the question. The 8 pics of my grab bag Akane 4-4-0 are the original colors, there was no lettering on the original. Also, the original 50s painted version had a weight in the cab that filled the cab and the lead truck provided some of the electrical pickup. After some quick measurements, I think that the Mantua General lead can be subbed in while I look for the original. In the meantime I will also look for insulated one side 26" or 28" spoked wheelsets. While the original had no detailing on the lead truck, the early version Mantua truck has the springs represented. I couldn't find any dings or dents on this unit and all of the original parts except for the lead truck are accounted for. Any opinions on striping the paint and repainting in the original colors? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, Alabama On 5/6/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Jake, > > Can you post pictures of what is there so everyone can see? > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Gang, >> I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked > up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua > general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out > to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck > and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the > tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. >> Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or > alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane > before I open it up and start the rebuild? >> >> Contact me off list if any interest. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL >> >> jhbivusa at gmail dot com >> > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19200	From: prandn	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Interesting eBay auction

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > "This is the message I wrote to the seller......." Interestingly the seller has not chosen to post the information Don supplied. Bet the seller gets all excited when the "Watchers" number starts climbing......... :-) I wonder if we could get as many "Watchers" as the asking price??? :-) Loren Martell Beaverton, OR 97006

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19201	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim,   On site.  The loco looks really nice Jim.  Great job with it.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 3:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Finished [2 Attachments]     I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the original builder did. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19202	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: Finished

John B Allyn,   I don't intend to paint the engine. As a vintage engine made between 1937-1975, I want to show what the engine is made of although since it was a kit originally I could paint it any RR name and not lose value.                                                                   Jim H On 5/6/2012 6:36 PM, john.allyn@... wrote:   Jim, I can't remember whether you said you were going to paint the engine.  It looks terrific. John B. Allyn From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 3:38:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Finished   These look Great Jim. Another restoration that beats the original! Jake Bechtel Alabama On 5/6/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. > While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time > being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the > side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the > back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better > but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the > original builder did. > > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19203	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: OT Using Ebay

Hi Just need some help with Ebay. Is there a way to save each auction so can use again in the future. That is I sell something today and I want to sell the same thing in a couple of months how do you keep a copy to amend without having to start all over. Thanks Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19204	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: OT Using Ebay

Charlie, Check the eBay web site for a downloadable program called "Turbo Lister". I think you will find yur answer there. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 5/6/12, railroads@... <railroads@...> wrote: > Hi > > Just need some help with Ebay. > > Is there a way to save each auction so can use again in the future. That is > I sell something today and I want to sell the same thing in a couple of > months how do you keep a copy to amend without having to start all over. > Thanks > > Charlie Harris > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19205	From: rcjge	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Hey Guys: Anyone have a forward chassis part of a Lindsay F7 Chassis? I believe it must be a Globe part since it lacks an L-xxxx designation in this diagram http://hoseeker.com/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg I have an L-1140/1185/1186 but lack the tank cover/ forward floor extension.... If you have one please let me know... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19206	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/6/2012
Subject: Re: OT Using Ebay

Heck, I'd love to know how to contact somebody in charge there to thell them they are messed up...at eBay. I contacted them, gave proof of who I am, and they supposedly emailed me my password in confidentiality. Well...it doesn't work and I cannot find a way to contact them...either on-line or by regular mail. Any suggestions.   John --- On Sun, 5/6/12, railroads@... <railroads@...> wrote: From: railroads@... <railroads@...> Subject: [vintageHO] OT Using Ebay To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 6, 2012, 9:42 PM   Hi Just need some help with Ebay. Is there a way to save each auction so can use again in the future. That is I sell something today and I want to sell the same thing in a couple of months how do you keep a copy to amend without having to start all over. Thanks Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19207	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

On 5/7/2012 12:48 AM, rcjge wrote: > Hey Guys: > > Anyone have a forward chassis part of a Lindsay F7 Chassis? I believe it must be a Globe part since it lacks an L-xxxx designation in this diagram > > http://hoseeker.com/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg > > > I have an L-1140/1185/1186 but lack the tank cover/ forward floor extension.... > > If you have one please let me know... > > Thanks, > Gareth > > > I believe you take the complete Globe floor piece and cut it. If that's all you need I'll look, I may have one. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19208	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]; Walthers HH600

Jim, Just wanted to add to the many well-deserved complements you received, on the work you did in restoring your pre-War (1937-40) Walthers Alco-Type HH600. It turned out to be just the absolute gem I said it would be when you first posted it. Nice work -- and the handrails look perfect on it. As this model has the higher-ratio (13 to 1) U239 motor/power truck, it should presumedly run fairly smooth, but I don't recall reading if you came up with a fix for the offset brushes (riding only on 1/3 of the armature), or whether you just decided to leave it as is. One thing I've noticed in the various early Walthers catalogs is that while this cast bronze HH600 was produced up until 1940 -- with the fist-version roller bearing (round) journal sideframes, all of the other Walthers catalogs advertising the cast lead HH600 from 1941, then from 1946 up through at least 1950, picture it as photographed still with the round journal box sideframes. You'd think that they'd have wanted to show their latest version sideframes having the square friction bearing sideframes, they being Walthers' latest design for this model. Anyway, congrats on another job well done. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19209	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Hey Don: Do you mean you take what would have been the entire F7 "Dummy" floor and cut off the piece needed for the forward part of the powered version? Thanks, Gareth --- > I believe you take the complete Globe floor piece and cut it. > > If that's all you need I'll look, I may have one. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19210	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]; Walthers HH600

Hi Ray F W, All         Thanks for the compliment. In fact from all the members who responded. I will keep looking for the first version roller bearing truck.       I was able to shift the brushes on the armature better. I made a new fiber piece that holds the brushes and  made holes to get it closer, even where it attached to the motor. It's not prefect but much better. I only ran it to test it a short time on some straight track. At least the motor works and the engine runs back and forth. That's enough. Don't want to burn it up on a newer transformer with a higher voltage. I'm really proud because I did it with shaky hands the whole time.       Now I've got to learn how to take, and save, the before picture on eBay and add it to the rebuilt engine. One more vintage engine saved and put on the shelf with other older Walthers pieces.                                                      Jim H   On 5/7/2012 10:03 AM, erieberk@... wrote:   Jim, Just wanted to add to the many well-deserved complements you received, on the work you did in restoring your pre-War (1937-40) Walthers Alco-Type HH600. It turned out to be just the absolute gem I said it would be when you first posted it. Nice work -- and the handrails look perfect on it. As this model has the higher-ratio (13 to 1) U239 motor/power truck, it should presumedly run fairly smooth, but I don't recall reading if you came up with a fix for the offset brushes (riding only on 1/3 of the armature), or whether you just decided to leave it as is. One thing I've noticed in the various early Walthers catalogs is that while this cast bronze HH600 was produced up until 1940 -- with the fist-version roller bearing (round) journal sideframes, all of the other Walthers catalogs advertising the cast lead HH600 from 1941, then from 1946 up through at least 1950, picture it as photographed still with the round journal box sideframes. You'd think that they'd have wanted to show their latest version sideframes having the square friction bearing sideframes, they being Walthers' latest design for this model. Anyway, congrats on another job well done. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19211	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished

I like it unpainted, too. Jim, that's a silk purse from a sow's ear if ever there was one! Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > John B Allyn, > I don't intend to paint the engine. As a vintage engine made between > 1937-1975, I want to show what the engine is made of although since it > was a kit originally I could paint it any RR name and not lose value. > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19212	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]

Awesome Jim! Glad you got that one and not me!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 3:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Finished [2 Attachments]   I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the original builder did. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19213	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

On 5/7/2012 9:24 AM, rcjge wrote: > Hey Don: > > Do you mean you take what would have been the entire F7 "Dummy" floor and cut off the piece needed for the forward part of the powered version? > > Thanks, > Gareth > > --- > That' sure what it looks like to me. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19214	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Gareth,   Go to this page in hoseeker.net   http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg   It is the instructions for installing the drive in a Globe F7.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: rcjge Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...     On 5/7/2012 9:24 AM, rcjge wrote: > Hey Don: > > Do you mean you take what would have been the entire F7 "Dummy" floor and cut off the piece needed for the forward part of the powered version? > > Thanks, > Gareth > > --- > That' sure what it looks like to me. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19215	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0

I like that engine. I have the same engine not too far from me. As I recall that lead truck is rather uncomplicated and could be made. I can send a picture or more of it for you, later. Mike Bauers On May 6, 2012, at 9:27 AM, Jake Bechtel wrote: > Hi Gang, > I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. > Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane before I open it up and start the rebuild? > > Contact me off list if any interest. > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > jhbivusa at gmail dot com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19216	From: Charlie	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: OT Using Ebay

Hi Jacob     Thanks for the tip.  Found it, eventually.  Have downloaded etc but have not got it to recognise my identity!   Anyway, thanks for the tip and I will get there.   Charlie From: Jacob Bechtel Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:34 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OT Using Ebay   Charlie, Check the eBay web site for a downloadable program called "Turbo Lister". I think you will find yur answer there. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 5/6/12, railroads@... <railroads@...> wrote: > Hi > > Just need some help with Ebay. > > Is there a way to save each auction so can use again in the future. That is > I sell something today and I want to sell the same thing in a couple of > months how do you keep a copy to amend without having to start all over. > Thanks > > Charlie Harris > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19217	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0 [9 Attachments]

Jake, If you are going to sell it I would second John's recommendation.  If you are going to keep it then check out the Precision Scale catalog.  They used to sell a double axle four wheel lead truck that might work on that unit.  They also have the spoked wheels you are looking for.  I just bought several sets late last year from them. If you go to my CWRailman Facebook page, click on the photo's and then on the Project album the first loco in that group has some of the spoked wheels that I got from Precision Scale installed in the pony truck as well as the tender trucks.   They are very nice looking but they are not cheap.  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > You might want to check out the Early Rails and Civil War Rails groups on sale prospects. > > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacob Bechtel" jhbivusa@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:16:08 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Akane 4-4-0 [9 Attachments] > > > > > [ Attachment(s) from Jacob Bechtel included below] > > OK Group, this is my first attempt at adding attachments - sure hope > that it works. I am attaching part of the 1962 catalog page that > showed the 4-4-0 unpainted. By 1962 the original factory painted > model was out of the catalog. In 1962 this was the lowest catalog > priced Akane at $99. I don't remember what I paid for my first Akane > 4-4-0 but it was a lot less. First the prices were lower in the > fifties and second my dad worked part time at Lloyds Hobby Shop in > Baltimore and got a great discount! My first job when I came home > from the Navy in 1962 paid a whopping 85 CENTS an hour - so replacing > my now mangled 4-4-0 was out of the question. > The 8 pics of my grab bag Akane 4-4-0 are the original colors, there > was no lettering on the original. Also, the original 50s painted > version had a weight in the cab that filled the cab and the lead truck > provided some of the electrical pickup. > After some quick measurements, I think that the Mantua General lead > can be subbed in while I look for the original. In the meantime I > will also look for insulated one side 26" or 28" spoked wheelsets. > While the original had no detailing on the lead truck, the early > version Mantua truck has the springs represented. I couldn't find any > dings or dents on this unit and all of the original parts except for > the lead truck are accounted for. > Any opinions on striping the paint and repainting in the original colors? > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, Alabama > > On 5/6/12, cwrailman < cwrailman@... > wrote: > > > > Jake, > > > > Can you post pictures of what is there so everyone can see? > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Jake Bechtel" jhbivusa@ wrote: > >> > >> Hi Gang, > >> I was at the Smokey City (Birmingham) club show yesterday and picked > > up a baggie from a parts grab bag box. Thought I had an old mantua > > general that I could salvage for parts but after I got home it turns out > > to be an original factory painted Akane 4-4-0, missing the lead truck > > and has a home-made drawbar and flex shaft, motor is loose in the > > tender. Most of the factory paint is in place. > >> Does anyone have a lead truck that they would part with? Or > > alternately, does anyone want to make an offer on this vintage Akane > > before I open it up and start the rebuild? > >> > >> Contact me off list if any interest. > >> > >> Jake Bechtel > >> Gadsden, AL > >> > >> jhbivusa at gmail dot com > >> > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19218	From: Alan	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

If your interested here is a F7 powered frame /body,if this is what your looking for reply off-group it is still available. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Anyone have a forward chassis part of a Lindsay F7 Chassis? I believe it must be a Globe part since it lacks an L-xxxx designation in this diagram > > http://hoseeker.com/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg > > > I have an L-1140/1185/1186 but lack the tank cover/ forward floor extension.... > > If you have one please let me know... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19219	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

It might help if I provided the linkj,sorry about that. Alan http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item20c51e2d96&item=140746042774&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=86eiQlS1uymdfdvZE5PdP2BP6n8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc From: Alan <albyrno@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 6:36 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...   If your interested here is a F7 powered frame /body,if this is what your looking for reply off-group it is still available. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Anyone have a forward chassis part of a Lindsay F7 Chassis? I believe it must be a Globe part since it lacks an L-xxxx designation in this diagram > > http://hoseeker.com/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg > > > I have an L-1140/1185/1186 but lack the tank cover/ forward floor extension.... > > If you have one please let me know... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19220	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Alan; That looks like an Athearn chassis does it not??? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <albyrno@...> wrote: > > If your interested here is a F7 powered frame /body,if this is what your looking for reply off-group it is still available. > Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19221	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Hi John: That's where I started my search. What's not clear because there is no "before" shot, I have no idea what "depression" they are referring to in instruction #4. I have the two part frame and the rear truck sideframes. I have a Lindsay Power Truck somewhere just have to see if it's the correct one.... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Gareth, > > > > Go to this page in hoseeker.net > > > > http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg > > > > It is the instructions for installing the drive in a Globe F7. > > > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19222	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their shells

Can anyone tell me is there is a way to distinguish the Globe from the Athearn? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19223	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0

You might look at a Tyco/Mantua 4-6-0 or 4-6-2 lead truck. It's mainly a block of metal with two grooves in it for the axles. If you look at a 2-8-2 or 4-6-2 trailing truck, you'll see that the axle is again in a grove. But this time with a thin sheet of metal holding the axle in place. The lead truck doesn't have to be anything complex and will still look good. Of course, if you find a nice lead truck to use, fine. But if you need something that will simply work well, there are ways.......... Mike Bauers On May 7, 2012, at 8:13 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > Jake, > > If you are going to sell it I would second John's recommendation. If you are going to keep it then check out the Precision Scale catalog. They used to sell a double axle four wheel lead truck that might work on that unit. They also have the spoked wheels you are looking for. I just bought several sets late last year from them. If you go to my CWRailman Facebook page, click on the photo's and then on the Project album the first loco in that group has some of the spoked wheels that I got from Precision Scale installed in the pony truck as well as the tender trucks. They are very nice looking but they are not cheap.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19224	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Hey Guys; Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? I'm looking for issues from he 50's... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19225	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she

Hi, My understanding, is that Globe numberboards were added on to the nose, Athearn were cast in as they were till the end of the blue box era. This may or may not be absolute, and I don't know offhand if there was any overlap (I.e. early Athearn F-7s with separate applied numberboards). Overall, I've heard it is a generally good way to distinguish them. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 5/7/12, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> Subject: [vintageHO] While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their shells To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 7, 2012, 9:00 PM   Can anyone tell me is there is a way to distinguish the Globe from the Athearn? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19226	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

I've got scattered issues.  Which ones do you need? John B. Allyn From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 9:38:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?   Hey Guys; Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? I'm looking for issues from he 50's... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19227	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Hey John: For now August `52 and Oct `52. Trying to complete an article on scratchbuilding a Narrow Gauge Consolidation.... If you're looking to move them I wouldn't mind a list of which ones you have.... Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > I've got scattered issues. Which ones do you need? > > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 9:38:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > > > > Hey Guys; > > Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > I'm looking for issues from he 50's... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19228	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she

Did the Globe F7 have Dual headlights or single? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19229	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

The “depression” was a major financial disaster caused by the stock mark ….. oops. Wrong depression.   It is the Fuel tank. At least after reading the instructions through and rereading them, that’s what I come up with.   I dunno what an Athearn frame of that era looks like so…   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcjge Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...     Hi John: That's where I started my search. What's not clear because there is no "before" shot, I have no idea what "depression" they are referring to in instruction #4. I have the two part frame and the rear truck sideframes. I have a Lindsay Power Truck somewhere just have to see if it's the correct one.... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Gareth, > > > > Go to this page in hoseeker.net > > > > http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg > > > > It is the instructions for installing the drive in a Globe F7. > > > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19230	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Gareth -- Most of mine are from 1956 to 1962, plus the "Yearbooks" that Kalmbach put out using reprints; nothing that early.  I've saved them for the E. L. Moore and Robert E Gilbert structure articles that I wanted to build when I was a kid.  John B. Allyn From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:01:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?   Hey John: For now August `52 and Oct `52. Trying to complete an article on scratchbuilding a Narrow Gauge Consolidation.... If you're looking to move them I wouldn't mind a list of which ones you have.... Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > I've got scattered issues. Which ones do you need? > > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 9:38:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > > > > Hey Guys; > > Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > I'm looking for issues from he 50's... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19231	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

I also have a lifetime -- and I'm not kidding -- supply of balsa wood to build those structures. John B. Allyn From: "john allyn" <john.allyn@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:17:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? Gareth -- Most of mine are from 1956 to 1962, plus the "Yearbooks" that Kalmbach put out using reprints; nothing that early.  I've saved them for the E. L. Moore and Robert E Gilbert structure articles that I wanted to build when I was a kid.  John B. Allyn From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:01:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?   Hey John: For now August `52 and Oct `52. Trying to complete an article on scratchbuilding a Narrow Gauge Consolidation.... If you're looking to move them I wouldn't mind a list of which ones you have.... Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > I've got scattered issues. Which ones do you need? > > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 9:38:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > > > > Hey Guys; > > Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > I'm looking for issues from he 50's... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19232	From: Larry Smith	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

I have all of them Larry Smith On 5/7/2012 9:38 PM, rcjge wrote:   Hey Guys; Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? I'm looking for issues from he 50's... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19233	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

On 5/7/2012 6:51 PM, John Hagen wrote: Gareth,   Go to this page in hoseeker.net   http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg   It is the instructions for installing the drive in a Globe F7.   John Hagen   That's the drawing that started this discussion. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19234	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she

On 5/7/2012 9:00 PM, rcjge wrote: > Can anyone tell me is there is a way to distinguish the Globe from the Athearn? > > Thanks, > Gareth > > > Single headlight and the number boards are separate castings. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19235	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Geez Don,   Remember I’m a geezer now for a few years. They say the mind is the second thing to go.   Don’t even think about asking what the first is.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:25 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...     On 5/7/2012 6:51 PM, John Hagen wrote: Gareth,   Go to this page in hoseeker.net   http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg2.jpg   It is the instructions for installing the drive in a Globe F7.   John Hagen     That's the drawing that started this discussion. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19236	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Larry; Can you email me? Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote: > > I have all of them > > Larry Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19237	From: rcjge	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Hey John: It would appear Larry has what I need. Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Gareth -- > > Most of mine are from 1956 to 1962, plus the "Yearbooks" that Kalmbach put out using reprints; nothing that early. I've saved them for the E. L. Moore and Robert E Gilbert structure articles that I wanted to build when I was a kid. > > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:01:22 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > > > > Hey John: > > For now August `52 and Oct `52. Trying to complete an article on scratchbuilding a Narrow Gauge Consolidation.... > > If you're looking to move them I wouldn't mind a list of which ones you have.... > > Best, > Gareth > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , john.allyn@ wrote: > > > > I've got scattered issues. Which ones do you need? > > > > > > John B. Allyn > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 9:38:51 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Guys; > > > > Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > I'm looking for issues from he 50's... > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19238	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2012
Subject: Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their she

First ones had single. later ones had dual as appropriate, as I remember them gj -----Original Message----- From: rcjge Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:11 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: While on the topic of Globe F7's and more specifically their shells Did the Globe F7 have Dual headlights or single? -Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19239	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Akane 4-4-0

Thanks John, I admit that I am really being pulled toward keeping this and restoring it. I have checked the Mantua/Tyco 4-4-0 General lead truck for fit and it will work. The early Mantua General lead truck has the springs represented on the truck. It actually has better detailing than the Akane original but I need to get the Precision wheel sets so I have the electrical pickup from the lead truck. I bought one of these as a teen in the first years of Akane in the US for about $25 at Lloyds Hobby Shop, by the time I was 21 the catalog price had risen to $99 unpainted! Consequently, if I keep it a couple extra bucks for the Precision wheelsets would be a small matter. Akane put a 5 pole motor in the tender of these back in the early fifties and it is way bigger than needed. I haven't checked it yet but I have never yet needed to scrap an Akane motor. I would really like feedback from other forum members on whether they would keep this unit and why. Also, would you strip it and repaint or leave it as is? or leave it unpainted? Unlike other brass builders of the era, Akane put a lot of emphasis on operation and built and tested their own motors. This is really not a superdetailed model of a specific loco and as I remember I bought my original model because I got it cheaper than the Mantua kit!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19240	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

railpub.com has a good selection, if you want to purchase...   george From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?   Hey Guys; Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? I'm looking for issues from he 50's... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19241	From: rcjge	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Went and looked, didn't have Aug/Oct `52. I hope it's only a three part article I'm after... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > > railpub.com has a good selection, if you want to purchase... >   > george

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19242	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Need new project

On 5/8/2012 10:10 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Since I finished one project it's time to start watching > eBay for just the rightnext vintage project. Need something to keep > me busy. Tracking something down can be fun but I just can't take > anything. Having all or most of the parts can be more important then > the damage that needs to be rebuilt. > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19243	From: Alan	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Yes thats the upgraded athearn/globe hi-f drive chassis made after athearn took over globe for the globe F7. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Alan; > > That looks like an Athearn chassis does it not??? > > -Gareth > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <albyrno@> wrote: > > > > If your interested here is a F7 powered frame /body,if this is what your looking for reply off-group it is still available. > > Alan >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19244	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

Providing athearn didn't sell an athearn GOLD colored F7 I would think that the globe line became athearn or was dropped  when the locos no longer had the gold color     Heres some globe /athearn info.   After becoming a full-time retailer in 1946, Irv Athearn opened a separate facility in Hawthorne, California in 1948, and that same year he branched into HO scale models for the first time. Athearn acquired the Globe Models product line and improved upon it, introducing a comprehensive array of locomotive, passenger and freight car models. Improvements included all-wheel drive and electrical contact. One innovation was the "Hi-F" drive mechanism, employing small rubber bands to transfer motion from the motor spindle to the wheels. Another was the double-ended ring magnet motor, which permitted easy connection to all wheel drive assemblies. Athearn was also able to incorporate flywheels into double-ended drives   Alan From: Alan <albyrno@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 7:33 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...   Yes thats the upgraded athearn/globe hi-f drive chassis made after athearn took over globe for the globe F7. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Alan; > > That looks like an Athearn chassis does it not??? > > -Gareth > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <albyrno@> wrote: > > > > If your interested here is a F7 powered frame /body,if this is what your looking for reply off-group it is still available. > > Alan >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19245	From: Chris B	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Fw: possible new projects on ebay?

Attachments : A Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Brannigan, Chris J - Washington, DC <chris.j.brannigan@...>; To: chrisb_acw_rr@... <chrisb_acw_rr@...>; Subject: possible new projects on ebay? Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 2:37:14 PM HO HEAVY CAST BRASS TENDER, VINTAGE Returns: Not accepted 1 Bid $9.99       Brass & Mantua Steam Engine Lot 5 Sets CHEAP! Returns: Accepted within 7 days 1 Bid $49.99 Time left: 1d    ================================================================================================   Early Mantua Brass Locomotive Shell & Complete Tender Returns: Accepted within 14 days 1 Bid $7.00 Time left: 5d     Vintage HO Lindsay Brass Diesel Locomotive Switcher Engine Returns: Not accepted 4 Bids $29.75 Time left: 4d   Vintage Post World War II Varney Brass Nickle Plated Engine Locomotive Returns: Not accepted 0 Bids Buy It Now $19.00 $145.00 Time left:     H O Scale Varney Metal/Brass Tender # 2091K Expedited shipping available Returns: Accepted within 14 days 1 Bid $19.95 Time left: 2d 11h 28m     Vintage HO Varney 4-6-2 Pacific Steam Locomotive Engine ~Brass Frame/Cast Boiler Expedited shipping available Returns: Not accepted 5 Bids $26.00 Time left:   =====================================================================     H O Scale Wood Locomotive And Tender Expedited shipping available Returns: Accepted within 14 days 0 Bids $11.95 Time left: 2d 11h 29m         Item number: 200756044156   Rare Vintage HO Diesel-Crescent Brass EMD Early Model E A Unit For Restoration   Rare Vintage HO Diesel-Crescen​t Brass EMD Early Model E A Unit For Restoration Expedited shipping available Returns: Not accepted 0 Bids $64.99 Time left:     “rare vintage early era HO brass diesel. I believe this model was made by Crescent, and is a model of an early EMD E series A unit diesel. The model is constructed of sheet brass and appears to have been built from a kit produced in the USA. The model is powered by a 27.5 VDC General Motors Delco Appliance Division motor that has a coupling to connect it to the rear drive truck. The model is in decent shape for it's age and is quite heavy. However the locomotive is in need of restoration. It had a coat of yellow paint applied to it at one time. It still shows signs of this paint on certain areas of the shell. The model comes with only the parts pictured. The square items appear to be fittings that mount on the roof as vents. The locomotive is being sold AS -IS and UNTESTED.”

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19246	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Lindsay/Globe F7 forward extension sought...

check the yahoo groups photo. I put 4 pictures of part of my collection of HO  from the 40s and 50s. Some boxes are marked 98 cents most were $1.49.or there about. I moved my layout so when all the boxes are back in the closet I’ll take better pictures.. Herb

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19247	From: Lon	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Hi, Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19248	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

You got me.  One mans junk is another man's treasure.  I cannot imagine $46 for those.  I guess I better be careful and start selling my junk on eBay instead of trashing it.  Hmmm, I think I have some Mantua loop and hook couplers somewhere. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:19:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Hi, Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19249	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Vic, If you have a bunch of Mantua couplers you don't need, let me know if you want to part with them. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 5/8/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 3:23 PM   You got me.  One mans junk is another man's treasure.  I cannot imagine $46 for those.  I guess I better be careful and start selling my junk on eBay instead of trashing it.  Hmmm, I think I have some Mantua loop and hook couplers somewhere. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:19:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Hi, Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19250	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

On 5/8/2012 3:19 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi, > Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc > > > Beats me, I'd have thought about five bucks for the lot. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19251	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

According to the bid history, it appears that the same bidder kept bidding them up, then finally lost at the end anyway, but the opening bid was .99, go figure!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Lon <wlon17@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   On 5/8/2012 3:19 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi, > Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc > > > Beats me, I'd have thought about five bucks for the lot. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19252	From: Jay	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Strangest trucks found on a model, was: Mantua trucks sold on eB

Hi Lon, The only reason I can think of is that someone wants to restore some red or brown box Tyco era models and wants to toss out those "pesky sprung trucks and Kadee couplers" that some previous owner mounted on the cars! My strangest truck find was under a partially buit, and well crafted at that, Red Ball (Wabash Valley era) Jordan Spreader. It took me several years before I figured them out as I was not a "fully-embedded" Vintage HO guy, but at last identified them as a pair of StromBecker wooden wheeled wonders - rigidly glued to the underside as well! Still have trouble figuring out what that otherwise highly skilled modeler was thinking! Unless it was some insiders April Fools type of joke. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi, > Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19253	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

On 5/8/2012 6:15 PM, Gary Woodard wrote: According to the bid history, it appears that the same bidder kept bidding them up, then finally lost at the end anyway, but the opening bid was .99, go figure!   Gary W       I didn't look at that, was the winning bid a sniper or did the other bidder drop out with some time to go? If a sniper, it's probably legit,  someone with more money than brains.  If the bidder just dropped out with time to go, I would suspect the winning bis might be a shill for the seller, trying to drive the price up, and the other fellow finally ave up. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19254	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Sorry Steve, My comments were really meant as a joke.  I really don't know if I still have any or not, but if I do and I run across some, they are definitely yours.  I will keep you in mind as I do run across some once in a while.  I really don't consider this too bizarre as there are some folks who beg for the plastic horn hooks.  I save those for these folks, since I am not aware of any new rolling stock that comes with horn hooks anymore. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:25:50 -0700 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Vic, If you have a bunch of Mantua couplers you don't need, let me know if you want to part with them. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 5/8/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 3:23 PM   You got me.  One mans junk is another man's treasure.  I cannot imagine $46 for those.  I guess I better be careful and start selling my junk on eBay instead of trashing it.  Hmmm, I think I have some Mantua loop and hook couplers somewhere. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:19:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Hi, Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19255	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Vic, I re-read that just now and I see what you mean. Been kind of worn out lately, with my shop draining all my energy! I do like using Mantua couplers, especially when I show how I have it set up for hands free coupling and uncoupling, just like with Kadees. No delayed action, though if one kicks a car right with a locomotive, you can spot it a few inches from the ramp usually. Very tricky to learn the techniques, but worth it when showing off! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 5/8/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 9:03 PM   Sorry Steve, My comments were really meant as a joke.  I really don't know if I still have any or not, but if I do and I run across some, they are definitely yours.  I will keep you in mind as I do run across some once in a while.  I really don't consider this too bizarre as there are some folks who beg for the plastic horn hooks.  I save those for these folks, since I am not aware of any new rolling stock that comes with horn hooks anymore. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:25:50 -0700 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Vic, If you have a bunch of Mantua couplers you don't need, let me know if you want to part with them. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 5/8/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 3:23 PM   You got me.  One mans junk is another man's treasure.  I cannot imagine $46 for those.  I guess I better be careful and start selling my junk on eBay instead of trashing it.  Hmmm, I think I have some Mantua loop and hook couplers somewhere. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:19:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Hi, Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19256	From: Larry	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Finished [2 Attachments]

A job to be proud of Jim! Larry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 2:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Finished [2 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]           I completed my pre war Walthers HH600 with 6-8 volt motor. While I wait to find the original strap steps I built some for the time being which can be taken off easily. I also am still looking for the side frames for the front truck to match the original side frames on the back truck. Compared to how it looked when bought it looks much better but I had to do a lot of work trying to correct some of the things the original builder did.                                                                                 Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 2 of 2 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1366029724/item/list   <*> IMG_7901.JPG   <*> IMG_7904.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19257	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

I just found a copy that is dated April 15, 1951. Is this one that you are looking for? I'm pretty sure I have just this one issue. Friend of mine found me a box of old model train magazines at a yard sale last summer. Couple years worth of Model Railroader from 1951 and 1952, a number of copies of "Toy Train" magazine, and a few stragglers, such as this and one issue of something else, I think RMC. The real gem was the Lionel and American Flyer catalogs at the bottom. Lionel from 1948 to 1956, and similar years for Flyer too. If you want it, send me a private email with your address. Will be happy to send it out at no charge. Thanks -Steve --- On Mon, 5/7/12, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 7, 2012, 9:38 PM   Hey Guys; Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? I'm looking for issues from he 50's... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19258	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

I used to throw these away, and they had Mantua couplers. John B. Allyn From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: "Lon" <wlon17@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:55:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   On 5/8/2012 3:19 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi, > Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc > > > Beats me, I'd have thought about five bucks for the lot. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19259	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Looks like the winning bidder (who apparently has had one and only one E Bay transaction) put a ridiculous max bid on this (and we have no idea as to the real maximum he put on it) and #2 bidder jacked it up  until he rea;ized that he had gotten to the idiot stage -- look at all the bids he put in during the course of 20 seconds.     John B. Allyn From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 7:06:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   On 5/8/2012 6:15 PM, Gary Woodard wrote: According to the bid history, it appears that the same bidder kept bidding them up, then finally lost at the end anyway, but the opening bid was .99, go figure!   Gary W       I didn't look at that, was the winning bid a sniper or did the other bidder drop out with some time to go? If a sniper, it's probably legit,  someone with more money than brains.  If the bidder just dropped out with time to go, I would suspect the winning bis might be a shill for the seller, trying to drive the price up, and the other fellow finally ave up. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19260	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay-Now Mantua couplers

From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:12 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Vic, I re-read that just now and I see what you mean. Been kind of worn out lately, with my shop draining all my energy! I do like using Mantua couplers, especially when I show how I have it set up for hands free coupling and uncoupling, just like with Kadees. No delayed action, though if one kicks a car right with a locomotive, you can spot it a few inches from the ramp usually. Very tricky to learn the techniques, but worth it when showing off! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 5/8/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 9:03 PM   Sorry Steve, My comments were really meant as a joke.  I really don't know if I still have any or not, but if I do and I run across some, they are definitely yours.  I will keep you in mind as I do run across some once in a while.  I really don't consider this too bizarre as there are some folks who beg for the plastic horn hooks.  I save those for these folks, since I am not aware of any new rolling stock that comes with horn hooks anymore. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:25:50 -0700 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Vic, If you have a bunch of Mantua couplers you don't need, let me know if you want to part with them. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 5/8/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 3:23 PM   You got me.  One mans junk is another man's treasure.  I cannot imagine $46 for those.  I guess I better be careful and start selling my junk on eBay instead of trashing it.  Hmmm, I think I have some Mantua loop and hook couplers somewhere. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:19:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay   Hi, Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872650832&nma=true&rt=nc&si=6m8II52tEjIyBUt4VzRcmzK1puQ%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19261	From: Lon	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19262	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: mystery Atlantic

Attachments : Atlantic Atlantic-19262 H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth.   Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!).  HO, btw!   Thanks in anticipation! Chrs! Russ

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19263	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]

No stay-bolts on the firebox, no rivets on the boiler............ you might have a well made scratch-build ! It looks like one of the SP Atlantics with the profile and that cab. It seems to be the SP 4-4-2 as in the scale drawing in MR, January 1950, page 50. Different tender and the sand dome is swapped between the bell location, centering it over the drivers. Which might be a variation of another SP 4-4-2 class or an improvement of the model builder. Everything else seems to be in the same places and dimensions. The riveted tender might be one bought or simply the preferred style of the model builder. Cab, smoke-box, and firebox rivets are shown on the drawing. Mike Bauers On May 9, 2012, at 2:23 AM, Russ Shiel wrote: > [Attachment(s) from Russ Shiel included below] > > H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth. > > Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!). HO, btw! > > Thanks in anticipation! > Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19264	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic

On 5/9/2012 5:55 AM, Mike Bauers wrote: > No stay-bolts on the firebox, no rivets on the boiler............ you might have a well made scratch-build ! > > It looks like one of the SP Atlantics with the profile and that cab. > > It seems to be the SP 4-4-2 as in the scale drawing in MR, January 1950, page 50. Different tender and the sand dome is swapped between the bell location, centering it over the drivers. Which might be a variation of another SP 4-4-2 class or an improvement of the model builder. Everything else seems to be in the same places and dimensions. > > The riveted tender might be one bought or simply the preferred style of the model builder. Cab, smoke-box, and firebox rivets are shown on the drawing. > > Mike Bauers > On May 9, 2012, at 2:23 AM, Russ Shiel wrote: > >> [Attachment(s) from Russ Shiel included below] >> >> H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth. >> >> Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!). HO, btw! >> >> Thanks in anticipation! >> Chrs! Russ > Does anyone have good pictures of the Ken Kidder SP Atlantic for comparison? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19265	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Some people happen to have a lot of money........ Mike Bauers On May 8, 2012, at 3:19 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi, > Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19266	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]

It could be "New One", from looking at the air pumps and trailing truck.  Their detail was very simple.  I am not familiar with really early Tenshodo locos, but I know some very early brass was very rudimentary. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@... From: rshiel01@... Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:23:14 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Russ Shiel included below] H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth.   Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!).  HO, btw!   Thanks in anticipation! Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19267	From: Larry	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

$46.00 divided by 10 equals $4.60/each or $9.20/pair. Seems rather high to me when the whole car doesn't usually go for that amount, but I don't have any cars needing them at the moment, either. Larry Miller III  From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua trucks sold on eBay Some people happen to have a lot of money........ Mike Bauers On May 8, 2012, at 3:19 PM, Lon wrote: >  Hi,  >  Can someone tell me why these trucks went for so much? While I can see that someone could use them, I was surprised they went for $46.00. Thanks.  Lon Walker ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19268	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

Your comment about having a hard time getting Mantuas apart reminds me of the 1950's horror movie, The Giant Claw, where the monster (a giant bird) attacks and carries off an entire train which miraculously stays coupled as it flies through the sky.  The secret -- Mantua couplers, which are clearly visible.  Let us say that special effects have come a long way since 1957.  John B. Allyn From: "Lon" <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 10:57:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19269	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic

Didn't M. B. Austin have an SP Atlantic? John B. Allyn From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:13:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] mystery Atlantic   On 5/9/2012 5:55 AM, Mike Bauers wrote: > No stay-bolts on the firebox, no rivets on the boiler............ you might have a well made scratch-build ! > > It looks like one of the SP Atlantics with the profile and that cab. > > It seems to be the SP 4-4-2 as in the scale drawing in MR, January 1950, page 50. Different tender and the sand dome is swapped between the bell location, centering it over the drivers. Which might be a variation of another SP 4-4-2 class or an improvement of the model builder. Everything else seems to be in the same places and dimensions. > > The riveted tender might be one bought or simply the preferred style of the model builder. Cab, smoke-box, and firebox rivets are shown on the drawing. > > Mike Bauers > On May 9, 2012, at 2:23 AM, Russ Shiel wrote: > >> [Attachment(s) from Russ Shiel included below] >> >> H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth. >> >> Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!). HO, btw! >> >> Thanks in anticipation! >> Chrs! Russ > Does anyone have good pictures of the Ken Kidder SP Atlantic for comparison? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19270	From: hooligan	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic

Hello all , I'd be inclined to guess SP A6 , or a Harriman variant . Cotton belt maybe ? Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth. > > Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!).  HO, btw! > > Thanks in anticipation! > Chrs! Russ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19271	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic

I’m not aware of a New One brass Atlantic. Which means little as these days I’m not aware of a lot of things. New One did have a diecast Atlantic that is a decent model of a later production CNW class D Atlantic. It even has a tender with the small, “bin forward” coal bin as used on CNW’s class D’s in suburban service. I’d like to have one but they have a propensity for the feared metal rot. The Tenshodo brass model of the same loco imported back in the brass era are well detailed for the time. These do come up at times for relatively reasonable prices. But this engine ain’t one of them. I do not think this to a Tenshodo.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:01 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] mystery Atlantic     It could be "New One", from looking at the air pumps and trailing truck.  Their detail was very simple.  I am not familiar with really early Tenshodo locos, but I know some very early brass was very rudimentary. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19272	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

Mantua made an uncoupler, which was nothing more the a piece of bent steel with a curve (bump) on it so when the pin was pushed up, it allowed the hook to come off the loop.  I would bet it would be easy enough to fabricate one. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 03:57:31 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19273	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Varney Yellowstone, was; mystery Atlantic [2 Attachments]

Did anyone here win the "Early Vintage HO 4-8-8-4 BigBoy Brass Casting, Copper, Gray Metal, Rebuild" (read; Varney cast brass/bronze Yellowstone 0-8-8-4 -- with the V-1 motor) eBay auction #261011715103. that ended on May 6 ? It received 14 bids from 6 bidders. I haven't read of anyone on this group claiming to get it since it closed. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19274	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic

Yes, and International Models also imported one (perhaps the same one.) Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Didn't M. B. Austin have an SP Atlantic? > > > John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19275	From: Larry Smith	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Guys I have all of the issues of the magazine dating from 1948 through the end when Kalmbach merged the mag into MR.  One of the things that is interesting in them is the evolution of HOn3.  I also have a lot of copies of Model Builder that was the Lionel magazine.  Lots of great Frank Ellison articles in those.  The decals that Microscale offers for Atlantic and Shell came from those magazines.  I sent them copies of the art work that was published in them and supplied to those magazines by the companies so it is authentic. Larry Smith On 5/7/2012 10:17 PM, john.allyn@... wrote:   Gareth -- Most of mine are from 1956 to 1962, plus the "Yearbooks" that Kalmbach put out using reprints; nothing that early.  I've saved them for the E. L. Moore and Robert E Gilbert structure articles that I wanted to build when I was a kid.  John B. Allyn From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 10:01:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?   Hey John: For now August `52 and Oct `52. Trying to complete an article on scratchbuilding a Narrow Gauge Consolidation.... If you're looking to move them I wouldn't mind a list of which ones you have.... Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > I've got scattered issues. Which ones do you need? > > > John B. Allyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 9:38:51 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > > > > > > Hey Guys; > > Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? > > I'm looking for issues from he 50's... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19276	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

Somewhere I have a picture of me holding a locomotive vertical, nose pointing up, and a whole train dangling underneath it downward. Yes, I did that with Mantua couplers. Crazy part is, they're pretty reliable for me once with the right tuning and adjustments! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/9/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 8:22 AM   Your comment about having a hard time getting Mantuas apart reminds me of the 1950's horror movie, The Giant Claw, where the monster (a giant bird) attacks and carries off an entire train which miraculously stays coupled as it flies through the sky.  The secret -- Mantua couplers, which are clearly visible.  Let us say that special effects have come a long way since 1957.  John B. Allyn From: "Lon" <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 10:57:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19277	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

Done it. I use Bachmann EZ track, and what I did was take a strip of 1/2" wide brass, cut it to about 2.5" long, and drill a hole at either end of the cut piece. Warped it upwards, and ran two small screws through the hole and into the plastic roadbed. Very reliable! Would probably also work with cork roadbed, but I doubt it would work with foam roadbed like Woodland Scenics makes. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/9/12, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 9:00 AM   Mantua made an uncoupler, which was nothing more the a piece of bent steel with a curve (bump) on it so when the pin was pushed up, it allowed the hook to come off the loop.  I would bet it would be easy enough to fabricate one. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 03:57:31 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19278	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

Attachments : mantua train.jpg Found the picture. Actually had it on Facebook and downloaded it from my page. Thanks -Steve --- On Wed, 5/9/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 11:39 AM   Somewhere I have a picture of me holding a locomotive vertical, nose pointing up, and a whole train dangling underneath it downward. Yes, I did that with Mantua couplers. Crazy part is, they're pretty reliable for me once with the right tuning and adjustments! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/9/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 8:22 AM   Your comment about having a hard time getting Mantuas apart reminds me of the 1950's horror movie, The Giant Claw, where the monster (a giant bird) attacks and carries off an entire train which miraculously stays coupled as it flies through the sky.  The secret -- Mantua couplers, which are clearly visible.  Let us say that special effects have come a long way since 1957.  John B. Allyn From: "Lon" <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 10:57:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19279	From: rcjge	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Hey Steve; Did you get my email? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > I just found a copy that is dated April 15, 1951. > If you want it, send me a private email with your address. Will be happy to send it out at no charge. > > Thanks > -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19280	From: takefive247	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: older Mantua trucks wanted

Anyone have some 1940's Mantua fright trucks? I need four pair with mounting screws and washers. Contact me off list. Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19281	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Hi, Yes, I did this afternoon. I'll try to get it out in the mail tomorrow, if not Friday. Was a very hectic day, and finally am getting a chance to rest. I think I'll be spending the evening building a few new structures for my layout. Thanks -Steve --- On Wed, 5/9/12, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 2:44 PM   Hey Steve; Did you get my email? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > I just found a copy that is dated April 15, 1951. > If you want it, send me a private email with your address. Will be happy to send it out at no charge. > > Thanks > -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19282	From: Nelson	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

You think the trucks were expensive, take a look at what this baggie of horn hooks just went for. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872613821 Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Sorry Steve, > My comments were really meant as a joke. I really don't know if I still have any or not, but if I do and I run across some, they are definitely yours. I will keep you in mind as I do run across some once in a while. I really don't consider this too bizarre as there are some folks who beg for the plastic horn hooks. I save those for these folks, since I am not aware of any new rolling stock that comes with horn hooks anymore. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19283	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

I remember when I was fairly new to eBay, I listed a similar lot of horn hook couplers - lot of MDC, Athearn, and Tyco couplers. I think I had three or four pairs of older metal horn hooks with spring, too. I remember getting about $20 for the lot, plus shipping to Australia. I guess someone down under needed a bunch of horn hooks! I think I had more than 50, maybe closer to 80 pairs total. I remember thinking to myself I would be happy if they sold at all, even for the few bucks I wanted as a starting bid! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/9/12, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 5:42 PM   You think the trucks were expensive, take a look at what this baggie of horn hooks just went for. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872613821 Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Sorry Steve, > My comments were really meant as a joke. I really don't know if I still have any or not, but if I do and I run across some, they are definitely yours. I will keep you in mind as I do run across some once in a while. I really don't consider this too bizarre as there are some folks who beg for the plastic horn hooks. I save those for these folks, since I am not aware of any new rolling stock that comes with horn hooks anymore. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19284	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: mystery Atlantic

M.B. Austin was who I was thinking of when I typed Ken Kidder.  It's a b*tch getting old. Don On 5/9/2012 8:28 AM, john.allyn@... wrote: Didn't M. B. Austin have an SP Atlantic? John B. Allyn From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:13:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] mystery Atlantic   On 5/9/2012 5:55 AM, Mike Bauers wrote: > No stay-bolts on the firebox, no rivets on the boiler............ you might have a well made scratch-build ! > > It looks like one of the SP Atlantics with the profile and that cab. > > It seems to be the SP 4-4-2 as in the scale drawing in MR, January 1950, page 50. Different tender and the sand dome is swapped between the bell location, centering it over the drivers. Which might be a variation of another SP 4-4-2 class or an improvement of the model builder. Everything else seems to be in the same places and dimensions. > > The riveted tender might be one bought or simply the preferred style of the model builder. Cab, smoke-box, and firebox rivets are shown on the drawing. > > Mike Bauers > On May 9, 2012, at 2:23 AM, Russ Shiel wrote: > >> [Attachment(s) from Russ Shiel included below] >> >> H'lo All...group wisdom please? This auction win was advertised as a Tenshodo Atlantic 4-4-2, but on arrival, after comparison with the C&NW 4-4-2 in the Tenshodo book, no match, nor any markings visible on the loco or tender, and no original box. Lots of Atlantics in The Brown Book and Dan's Brass Guide, but this one didn't leap out at me, and not knowing the road made it harder to sleuth. >> >> Build quality appears to be 60's...and one informed colleague suggests Tetsudo or Pioneer...maybe Kawai. I'm hoping the collective experience here will recognize the build (or the road!). HO, btw! >> >> Thanks in anticipation! >> Chrs! Russ > Does anyone have good pictures of the Ken Kidder SP Atlantic for comparison? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Attachments : DSC00029.JPG On 5/9/2012 5:42 PM, Nelson wrote: > You think the trucks were expensive, take a look at what this baggie of horn hooks just went for. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=180872613821 > > Nelson > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris<bitlerisvj@...> wrote: >> >> Sorry Steve, >> My comments were really meant as a joke. I really don't know if I still have any or not, but if I do and I run across some, they are definitely yours. I will keep you in mind as I do run across some once in a while. I really don't consider this too bizarre as there are some folks who beg for the plastic horn hooks. I save those for these folks, since I am not aware of any new rolling stock that comes with horn hooks anymore. >> Regards, >> Vic Bitleris >> Raleigh, NC > At that price what did building this junk pile cost me? !!!! Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19286	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay [1 Attachment]

Boy Don,   You do junque like an artist.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 6:08 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay [1 Attachment]     [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] At that price what did building this junk pile cost me? !!!! Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19287	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: possible new projects on ebay?

What is the motor in that 'kit' - I have one laying around! Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19288	From: Nelson	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua trucks sold on eBay

Well, you could always strip off the paint and sell 'em! Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > At that price what did building this junk pile cost me? !!!! > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19289	From: rcjge	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone have copies oh :HO MODEL TRAINS Magazine?

Thanks Steve. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Yes, I did this afternoon. I'll try to get it out in the mail tomorrow, if not Friday. Was a very hectic day, and finally am getting a chance to rest. I think I'll be spending the evening building a few new structures for my layout. > > Thanks > -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19290	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks [1 Attachment]

Steve, you're doing an excellent Giant Claw imitation! John B. Allyn From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:56:03 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] Found the picture. Actually had it on Facebook and downloaded it from my page. Thanks -Steve --- On Wed, 5/9/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 11:39 AM   Somewhere I have a picture of me holding a locomotive vertical, nose pointing up, and a whole train dangling underneath it downward. Yes, I did that with Mantua couplers. Crazy part is, they're pretty reliable for me once with the right tuning and adjustments! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/9/12, john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> wrote: From: john.allyn@... <john.allyn@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 8:22 AM   Your comment about having a hard time getting Mantuas apart reminds me of the 1950's horror movie, The Giant Claw, where the monster (a giant bird) attacks and carries off an entire train which miraculously stays coupled as it flies through the sky.  The secret -- Mantua couplers, which are clearly visible.  Let us say that special effects have come a long way since 1957.  John B. Allyn From: "Lon" <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 10:57:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19291	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: new project

On 5/11/2012 10:13 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > I won an item on eBay that will become my new project. > Go to 110874297634 Vintage Scratch Built Brass Pacific. While it's > not an engine for my "normal" vintage collection I intend to do some > work on it and put it with my fantasy engines. Something to pass > time while I wait for something for my main collection. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19292	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: I'm falling behind

I finally got a much desired GM&O Walthers gas-electric !! It would be more correct to say I won one and it will be shipped soon. It's been a good couple of weeks, I was also able to get a Westwood B&O semi-closed vestibule Royal Blue Coach. I've been after these two for a long time. It looks like both kits are virginal. I'm not building the B&O. I wanted it to study it's engineering and it's got some surprising features. But the GM&O gasser will be built and powered with a eye to dolling her up with lights and DCC-sound. That will be a Fall project. I still need to place an order for some of the more exotic tiny LED's and I found a place that sells them on the order of 100 for $3-$6, depending upon type. I ordered a 100 warm-white 3mm leds from a eBay source to see what they would be like. I haven't tested them yet. But I liked the way they got here fast enough from H.K. I've found a US supplier at about the same price as the H.K. eBay buyer. It's nothing earth shattering. I find myself thinking in terms of if I order 200-300 of any size at these prices, I'll be well set-up for a lifetime. I'm not sure what to use for the drives on the Walthers Gassers. I have a half dozen or so that I need to power and I'm thinking of using the Bachmann HO trolley power drives. They cost about $13. I'd like to get one or two of the NWSL Stantion drives. But since they are about $80, I just can't go out and get a half dozen of them. I know the Bachmann drives may be slower than other power trucks. But a Gas Electric is slower than a lot of other passenger trains anyway. I did see a very nice way of building the power truck end of a Paul Moore trolley. It was built much like a race car internal tube chassis which gives quite a bit of strength to a Walthers vintage passenger construction. it's much like an A-frame on each side of the car over the power truck section made from small brass square tubing, as near as I can tell. I can see how the actual motor mount can be added to such a sub-frame. With a bit of creativity, I should be able to make a power truck mount for each type of power truck and mate that to the sub-frame. I'm hopeful I can have the needed elements for both the Bachmann and the NWSL mounts as part of the same subframe. That's part of what makes this a Fall project. As to what I have in mind for the Westwood kit, lets just say I will have a bunch of blueprinting sessions with the various parts as I use a micrometer and a vernier and make a slew of notes from them. The platform doors are really nice.......... Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19293	From: Richard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind

Mike Bauers wrote: "I still need to place an order for some of the more exotic tiny LED's and I found a place that sells them on the order of 100 for $3-$6, depending upon type. I ordered a 100 warm-white 3mm leds from a eBay source to see what they would be like. I haven't tested them yet. But I liked the way they got here fast enough from H.K." Mike, Would appreciate the link to where you purchased your warm white LEDs. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19294	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: close bid

I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19295	From: gary pardue	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind

Mike, I too would like the link for the LED's. Thanks Gary Pardue --- On Sat, 5/12/12, Richard <rh@...> wrote: From: Richard <rh@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: I'm falling behind To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 12, 2012, 10:18 AM   Mike Bauers wrote: "I still need to place an order for some of the more exotic tiny LED's and I found a place that sells them on the order of 100 for $3-$6, depending upon type. I ordered a 100 warm-white 3mm leds from a eBay source to see what they would be like. I haven't tested them yet. But I liked the way they got here fast enough from H.K." Mike, Would appreciate the link to where you purchased your warm white LEDs. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19296	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Mantua Metal Shark?

All, Despite being ill yesterday and today, I met a friend that wanted me to accompany him to a hobby shop near his house. He said they had some things in their 'used' section I would be interested in. Among the stuff I got was a bunch of Silver Streak and Comet cars. Paper sides on the Comet cars were pretty good, all had roof spar problems, but that is easy to fix. Anyway, they only had a few locomotives, and near all were Mantua and Athearn shells. Two Mantua GP-20s with mechanism, and an AHM C-Liner missing the entire power truck. Nothing exciting so far. What I saw, and never seen before, was a die cast RF-16 "Sharknose" body. Thought at first it could be a Cary product, so looked inside the shell. Clearly stamped was "MANTUA". Never heard of a die cast Mantua shark! When were these made, and for how long? I didn't buy it, as I don't know what chassis it would ride on, but I can go back if needed! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19297	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

Mantua Sharks were kits produced in the '50s, both A & B units.  They rode on self contained power trucks similar to the early F9 trucks, gimbal (allows rotation side to side and rocking to front and rear) mounts with one screw and spring on each side of the truck up through the truck mount ring into posts molded into the body. Don Staton in Va --------------------------------- On 5/12/2012 4:17 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   All, Despite being ill yesterday and today, I met a friend that wanted me to accompany him to a hobby shop near his house. He said they had some things in their 'used' section I would be interested in. Among the stuff I got was a bunch of Silver Streak and Comet cars. Paper sides on the Comet cars were pretty good, all had roof spar problems, but that is easy to fix. Anyway, they only had a few locomotives, and near all were Mantua and Athearn shells. Two Mantua GP-20s with mechanism, and an AHM C-Liner missing the entire power truck. Nothing exciting so far. What I saw, and never seen before, was a die cast RF-16 "Sharknose" body. Thought at first it could be a Cary product, so looked inside the shell. Clearly stamped was "MANTUA". Never heard of a die cast Mantua shark! When were these made, and for how long? I didn't buy it, as I don't know what chassis it would ride on, but I can go back if needed! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19298	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

Hi Steve, Absolutely Mantua made some very nice cast metal Sharks.  The title on the box says, Shark Nose, the Diesel.  I have 3 of the A units and have been looking for a B unit.  I missed out on some via eBay several times.  Once, because my network connection failed at the most inopportune time, another, because I forgot to bid, until it was too late.  I used to have an A-B set when I was about 12 years old in 1960 and they ran very well on Atlas brass sectional track on a ping pong table.  We had a lot of fun running these.  Much to my disagreement, my older brother converted the old Mantua loop and hook coupers to the "NMRA" Rail Line horn hooks.  We were not aware of Kadees at that time.  Too bad the originals got destroyed somehow or another, I wish I would have saved these. Hobbytown of Boston made some replacement mechanisms for these and occasionally they show up on eBay, but they are not cheap. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:17:32 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark?   All, Despite being ill yesterday and today, I met a friend that wanted me to accompany him to a hobby shop near his house. He said they had some things in their 'used' section I would be interested in. Among the stuff I got was a bunch of Silver Streak and Comet cars. Paper sides on the Comet cars were pretty good, all had roof spar problems, but that is easy to fix. Anyway, they only had a few locomotives, and near all were Mantua and Athearn shells. Two Mantua GP-20s with mechanism, and an AHM C-Liner missing the entire power truck. Nothing exciting so far. What I saw, and never seen before, was a die cast RF-16 "Sharknose" body. Thought at first it could be a Cary product, so looked inside the shell. Clearly stamped was "MANTUA". Never heard of a die cast Mantua shark! When were these made, and for how long? I didn't buy it, as I don't know what chassis it would ride on, but I can go back if needed! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19299	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: RF 16 Mantua Sharks

Attachments : IMG_7918.JPG IMG_7916.JPG IMG_7914.JPG IMG_7913.JPG Steve , All, The pictures are of Mantua Sharks A+B that came undecorated. I painted them even though I think the Reading never had them. The last 2 pictures are the Powered and Dummy trucks with side frames with the "shaft" running out of the top that screws into the bodies. ( excuse the dust ) My painted Sharks came with Mantua loop couplers. If I remember right Tyco also produced them but they had stripes painted on the body and the word TYCO on the sides. I have it that the A units were produced 1953-1962. B unit introduced 1964. Hope that helps. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19300	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid     I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19301	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: additional Shark info

Steve, All, I forgot to mention that there is a metal plate that goes in the inside top of the bodies. This plate is screwed into the trucks and then screwed into the top inside of the body. Could have taken a picture but forgot. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19302	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Richard C.,      My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid.                                                           Jim H On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid     I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19303	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Correction

The B unit Mantua Shark was first produced in 1954 not 1964. My mistake. Terrible proof reading.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19304	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

The first Mantua drive ran very smooth and quiet. It was  a self-contained power truck like the later ones but did not have a gimble mount. The motor and dummy truck were screwed to a sheet metal plate from the top down. Then the plate, with both trucks attached, was screwed into the shell. http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantuadieaselsharkpg2.jpg   I purchased one in, I think, 1955. Had the original drive. Like I said very smooth and quiet for the time. I also ordered (through my LHS) an eight wheel drive kit which consisted of a second power truck with slightly different wiring. It never arrived. Don’t know why but I may have a clue. When originally introduced, the power truck was supposedly set up to pick up power from both rails, making any wire to the dummy truck unnecessary. The dual power truck was then to have a lead to the original power truck for the purpose of picking up one side of the power. Sounds confusing? Yes, to me too as my Shark had the power truck with lead attached for picking up one side from the dummy. Model Railroader did a review if the Shark when it first came out and theirs had the power truck that picked up both side without the lead to the dummy truck. But I wonder if they maybe ran into some sort of problem with the electrically self-contained power truck and they just stopped using it, switching to the truck with the external lead. If that was the case, then possibly they would have no way to supply power for two motors. I know their later F7 was available with two power trucks. I see them on eBay now and then. They demand pretty high prices too. But those diesels had plastic shells and the gimble mounts so they were probably totally different designs. And the second generation of the Shark also had gimble mounted trucks, even with the diecast shell.   Mantua made some shells for the Hobbytown drive. I believe it was the gimble mount shell but haven’t been able to research that. It used the Hobbytown universal diesel drive with flywheels, which as Vic said, go pretty high these days. In fact there were some complete kits offered by Hobbytown. Saw one on eBay three – four months or so ago. Guy had pictures of the boxes. Standard Hobbytown boxes with Hobbytown labels showing the Mantua shell and universal diesel drive. Don’t remember what it went for but it was over $100.00 More than I could do at the time. But boy was on that one like a hawk.   I’m not sure when the plastic shell was introduced. It may not have been until after the Tyco era started. Somewhere along the way, it and the other diesels got that P.O.S. spur gear drive. I bought an Tyco set for my first son around 1974 or 75. Darn thing crapped after a very few hours of operation.   Well, my original Shark is long gone. I now have a replacement first generation replacement, maybe two. Plus I have one of those Hobbytown drive shells just waiting for a reasonable priced universal drive.   Still looking for a Mantua Atlantic without a Belpaire boiler.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:54 PM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark?     Hi Steve, Absolutely Mantua made some very nice cast metal Sharks.  The title on the box says, Shark Nose, the Diesel.  I have 3 of the A units and have been looking for a B unit.  I missed out on some via eBay several times.  Once, because my network connection failed at the most inopportune time, another, because I forgot to bid, until it was too late.  I used to have an A-B set when I was about 12 years old in 1960 and they ran very well on Atlas brass sectional track on a ping pong table.  We had a lot of fun running these.  Much to my disagreement, my older brother converted the old Mantua loop and hook coupers to the "NMRA" Rail Line horn hooks.  We were not aware of Kadees at that time.  Too bad the originals got destroyed somehow or another, I wish I would have saved these. Hobbytown of Boston made some replacement mechanisms for these and occasionally they show up on eBay, but they are not cheap. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:17:32 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark?   All, Despite being ill yesterday and today, I met a friend that wanted me to accompany him to a hobby shop near his house. He said they had some things in their 'used' section I would be interested in. Among the stuff I got was a bunch of Silver Streak and Comet cars. Paper sides on the Comet cars were pretty good, all had roof spar problems, but that is easy to fix. Anyway, they only had a few locomotives, and near all were Mantua and Athearn shells. Two Mantua GP-20s with mechanism, and an AHM C-Liner missing the entire power truck. Nothing exciting so far. What I saw, and never seen before, was a die cast RF-16 "Sharknose" body. Thought at first it could be a Cary product, so looked inside the shell. Clearly stamped was "MANTUA". Never heard of a die cast Mantua shark! When were these made, and for how long? I didn't buy it, as I don't know what chassis it would ride on, but I can go back if needed! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

The ones Hobbytown sold in the early 60's were actually Mantua bodies, they even mention that in the ads.  Whether Hobbytown got the Mantua dies and made them of if they just bought out the existing factory stock I don't know. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ On 5/12/2012 4:52 PM, John Hagen wrote: The first Mantua drive ran very smooth and quiet. It was  a self-contained power truck like the later ones but did not have a gimble mount. The motor and dummy truck were screwed to a sheet metal plate from the top down. Then the plate, with both trucks attached, was screwed into the shell. http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantuadieaselsharkpg2.jpg   I purchased one in, I think, 1955. Had the original drive. Like I said very smooth and quiet for the time. I also ordered (through my LHS) an eight wheel drive kit which consisted of a second power truck with slightly different wiring. It never arrived. Don’t know why but I may have a clue. When originally introduced, the power truck was supposedly set up to pick up power from both rails, making any wire to the dummy truck unnecessary. The dual power truck was then to have a lead to the original power truck for the purpose of picking up one side of the power. Sounds confusing? Yes, to me too as my Shark had the power truck with lead attached for picking up one side from the dummy. Model Railroader did a review if the Shark when it first came out and theirs had the power truck that picked up both side without the lead to the dummy truck. But I wonder if they maybe ran into some sort of problem with the electrically self-contained power truck and they just stopped using it, switching to the truck with the external lead. If that was the case, then possibly they would have no way! to supply power for two motors. I know their later F7 was available with two power trucks. I see them on eBay now and then. They demand pretty high prices too. But those diesels had plastic shells and the gimble mounts so they were probably totally different designs. And the second generation of the Shark also had gimble mounted trucks, even with the diecast shell.   Mantua made some shells for the Hobbytown drive. I believe it was the gimble mount shell but haven’t been able to research that. It used the Hobbytown universal diesel drive with flywheels, which as Vic said, go pretty high these days. In fact there were some complete kits offered by Hobbytown. Saw one on eBay three – four months or so ago. Guy had pictures of the boxes. Standard Hobbytown boxes with Hobbytown labels showing the Mantua shell and universal diesel drive. Don’t remember what it went for but it was over $100.00 More than I could do at the time. But boy was on that one like a hawk.   I’m not sure when the plastic shell was introduced. It may not have been until after the Tyco era started. Somewhere along the way, it and the other diesels got that P.O.S. spur gear drive. I bought an Tyco set for my first son around 1974 or 75. Darn thing crapped after a very few hours of operation.   Well, my ! original Shark is long gone. I now have a replacement first generation replacement, maybe two. Plus I have one of those Hobbytown drive shells just waiting for a reasonable priced universal drive.   Still looking for a Mantua Atlantic without a Belpaire boiler.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:54 PM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark?     Hi Steve, Absolutely Mantua made some very nice cast metal Sharks.  The title on the box says, Shark Nose, the Diesel.  I have 3 of the A units and have been looking for a B unit.  I missed out on some via eBay several times.  Once, because my network connection failed at ! the most inopportune time, another, because I forgot to bid, until it was too late.  I used to have an A-B set when I was about 12 years old in 1960 and they ran very well on Atlas brass sectional track on a ping pong table.  We had a lot of fun running these.  Much to my disagreement, my older brother converted the old Mantua loop and hook coupers to the "NMRA" Rail Line horn hooks.  We were not aware of Kadees at that time.  Too bad the originals got destroyed somehow or another, I wish I would have saved these. Hobbytown of Boston made some replacement mechanisms for these and occasionally they show up on eBay, but they are not cheap. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC --

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19306	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Jim, That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders.  Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents.  The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.    The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that.  That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning.  I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard C., > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > Jim H > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > Jim H > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19307	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

-- I had two of the Hobbytown drives made specifically for Mantuas, there were holes that the posts in the Mantua bodies fit into. I believe they also worked on the plastic GP20's. Roger Aultman \ -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ============= The ones Hobbytown sold in the early 60's were actually Mantua bodies, they even mention that in the ads. Whether Hobbytown got the Mantua dies and made them of if they just bought out the existing factory stock I don't know. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ On 5/12/2012 4:52 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > The first Mantua drive ran very smooth and quiet. It was a > self-contained power truck like the later ones but did not have a > gimble mount. The motor and dummy truck were screwed to a sheet metal > plate from the top down. Then the plate, with both trucks attached, > was screwed into the shell. > > http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantuadieaselsharkpg2.jpg > > I purchased one in, I think, 1955. Had the original drive. Like I said > very smooth and quiet for the time. I also ordered (through my LHS) an > eight wheel drive kit which consisted of a second power truck with > slightly different wiring. It never arrived. Don't know why but I may > have a clue. When originally introduced, the power truck was > supposedly set up to pick up power from both rails, making any wire to > the dummy truck unnecessary. The dual power truck was then to have a > lead to the original power truck for the purpose of picking up one > side of the power. Sounds confusing? Yes, to me too as my Shark had > the power truck with lead attached for picking up one side from the > dummy. Model Railroader did a review if the Shark when it first came > out and theirs had the power truck that picked up both side without > the lead to the dummy truck. But I wonder if they maybe ran into some > sort of problem with the electrically self-contained power truck and > they just stopped using it, switching to the truck with the external > lead. If that was the case, then possibly they would have no way! to > supply power for two motors. I know their later F7 was available with > two power trucks. I see them on eBay now and then. They demand pretty > high prices too. But those diesels had plastic shells and the gimble > mounts so they were probably totally different designs. And the second > generation of the Shark also had gimble mounted trucks, even with the > diecast shell. > > Mantua made some shells for the Hobbytown drive. I believe it was the > gimble mount shell but haven't been able to research that. It used the > Hobbytown universal diesel drive with flywheels, which as Vic said, go > pretty high these days. In fact there were some complete kits offered > by Hobbytown. Saw one on eBay three -- four months or so ago. Guy had > pictures of the boxes. Standard Hobbytown boxes with Hobbytown labels > showing the Mantua shell and universal diesel drive. Don't remember > what it went for but it was over $100.00 More than I could do at the > time. But boy was on that one like a hawk. > > I'm not sure when the plastic shell was introduced. It may not have > been until after the Tyco era started. Somewhere along the way, it and > the other diesels got that P.O.S. spur gear drive. I bought an Tyco > set for my first son around 1974 or 75. Darn thing crapped after a > very few hours of operation. > > Well, my ! original Shark is long gone. I now have a replacement first > generation replacement, maybe two. Plus I have one of those Hobbytown > drive shells just waiting for a reasonable priced universal drive. > > Still looking for a Mantua Atlantic without a Belpaire boiler. > > John Hagen > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Victor Bitleris > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:54 PM > *To:* vintageho@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark? > > Hi Steve, > Absolutely Mantua made some very nice cast metal Sharks. The title on > the box says, Shark Nose, the Diesel. I have 3 of the A units and > have been looking for a B unit. I missed out on some via eBay several > times. Once, because my network connection failed at ! the most > inopportune time, another, because I forgot to bid, until it was too > late. I used to have an A-B set when I was about 12 years old in 1960 > and they ran very well on Atlas brass sectional track on a ping pong > table. We had a lot of fun running these. Much to my disagreement, > my older brother converted the old Mantua loop and hook coupers to the > "NMRA" Rail Line horn hooks. We were not aware of Kadees at that > time. Too bad the originals got destroyed somehow or another, I wish > I would have saved these. > Hobbytown of Boston made some replacement mechanisms for these and > occasionally they show up on eBay, but they are not cheap. > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19308	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

Wad duz yer means “HAD.” You could have very easily way sold them to me.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@... Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Don Dellmann Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark?     -- I had two of the Hobbytown drives made specifically for Mantuas, there were holes that the posts in the Mantua bodies fit into. I believe they also worked on the plastic GP20's. Roger Aultman \ -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: ============= The ones Hobbytown sold in the early 60's were actually Mantua bodies, they even mention that in the ads. Whether Hobbytown got the Mantua dies and made them of if they just bought out the existing factory stock I don't know. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ On 5/12/2012 4:52 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > The first Mantua drive ran very smooth and quiet. It was a > self-contained power truck like the later ones but did not have a > gimble mount. The motor and dummy truck were screwed to a sheet metal > plate from the top down. Then the plate, with both trucks attached, > was screwed into the shell. > > http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantuadieaselsharkpg2.jpg > > I purchased one in, I think, 1955. Had the original drive. Like I said > very smooth and quiet for the time. I also ordered (through my LHS) an > eight wheel drive kit which consisted of a second power truck with > slightly different wiring. It never arrived. Don't know why but I may > have a clue. When originally introduced, the power truck was > supposedly set up to pick up power from both rails, making any wire to > the dummy truck unnecessary. The dual power truck was then to have a > lead to the original power truck for the purpose of picking up one > side of the power. Sounds confusing? Yes, to me too as my Shark had > the power truck with lead attached for picking up one side from the > dummy. Model Railroader did a review if the Shark when it first came > out and theirs had the power truck that picked up both side without > the lead to the dummy truck. But I wonder if they maybe ran into some > sort of problem with the electrically self-contained power truck and > they just stopped using it, switching to the truck with the external > lead. If that was the case, then possibly they would have no way! to > supply power for two motors. I know their later F7 was available with > two power trucks. I see them on eBay now and then. They demand pretty > high prices too. But those diesels had plastic shells and the gimble > mounts so they were probably totally different designs. And the second > generation of the Shark also had gimble mounted trucks, even with the > diecast shell. > > Mantua made some shells for the Hobbytown drive. I believe it was the > gimble mount shell but haven't been able to research that. It used the > Hobbytown universal diesel drive with flywheels, which as Vic said, go > pretty high these days. In fact there were some complete kits offered > by Hobbytown. Saw one on eBay three -- four months or so ago. Guy had > pictures of the boxes. Standard Hobbytown boxes with Hobbytown labels > showing the Mantua shell and universal diesel drive. Don't remember > what it went for but it was over $100.00 More than I could do at the > time. But boy was on that one like a hawk. > > I'm not sure when the plastic shell was introduced. It may not have > been until after the Tyco era started. Somewhere along the way, it and > the other diesels got that P.O.S. spur gear drive. I bought an Tyco > set for my first son around 1974 or 75. Darn thing crapped after a > very few hours of operation. > > Well, my ! original Shark is long gone. I now have a replacement first > generation replacement, maybe two. Plus I have one of those Hobbytown > drive shells just waiting for a reasonable priced universal drive. > > Still looking for a Mantua Atlantic without a Belpaire boiler. > > John Hagen > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Victor Bitleris > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:54 PM > *To:* vintageho@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark? > > Hi Steve, > Absolutely Mantua made some very nice cast metal Sharks. The title on > the box says, Shark Nose, the Diesel. I have 3 of the A units and > have been looking for a B unit. I missed out on some via eBay several > times. Once, because my network connection failed at ! the most > inopportune time, another, because I forgot to bid, until it was too > late. I used to have an A-B set when I was about 12 years old in 1960 > and they ran very well on Atlas brass sectional track on a ping pong > table. We had a lot of fun running these. Much to my disagreement, > my older brother converted the old Mantua loop and hook coupers to the > "NMRA" Rail Line horn hooks. We were not aware of Kadees at that > time. Too bad the originals got destroyed somehow or another, I wish > I would have saved these. > Hobbytown of Boston made some replacement mechanisms for these and > occasionally they show up on eBay, but they are not cheap. > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > --

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19309	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

-- Sorry John They were sacrified to a eBay habit. I still have two metal sharks that were from George Drury, they are painted for his Westminster Lines, oned is also lettered. Roger -- John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: ============= Wad duz yer means “HAD.” You could have very easily way sold them to me. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@... Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: Don Dellmann Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark? -- I had two of the Hobbytown drives made specifically for Mantuas, there were holes that the posts in the Mantua bodies fit into. I believe they also worked on the plastic GP20's. Roger Aultman \ -- Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > wrote: ============= The ones Hobbytown sold in the early 60's were actually Mantua bodies, they even mention that in the ads. Whether Hobbytown got the Mantua dies and made them of if they just bought out the existing factory stock I don't know. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ On 5/12/2012 4:52 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > The first Mantua drive ran very smooth and quiet. It was a > self-contained power truck like the later ones but did not have a > gimble mount. The motor and dummy truck were screwed to a sheet metal > plate from the top down. Then the plate, with both trucks attached, > was screwed into the shell. > > http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantuadieaselsharkpg2.jpg > > I purchased one in, I think, 1955. Had the original drive. Like I said > very smooth and quiet for the time. I also ordered (through my LHS) an > eight wheel drive kit which consisted of a second power truck with > slightly different wiring. It never arrived. Don't know why but I may > have a clue. When originally introduced, the power truck was > supposedly set up to pick up power from both rails, making any wire to > the dummy truck unnecessary. The dual power truck was then to have a > lead to the original power truck for the purpose of picking up one > side of the power. Sounds confusing? Yes, to me too as my Shark had > the power truck with lead attached for picking up one side from the > dummy. Model Railroader did a review if the Shark when it first came > out and theirs had the power truck that picked up both side without > the lead to the dummy truck. But I wonder if they maybe ran into some > sort of problem with the electrically self-contained power truck and > they just stopped using it, switching to the truck with the external > lead. If that was the case, then possibly they would have no way! to > supply power for two motors. I know their later F7 was available with > two power trucks. I see them on eBay now and then. They demand pretty > high prices too. But those diesels had plastic shells and the gimble > mounts so they were probably totally different designs. And the second > generation of the Shark also had gimble mounted trucks, even with the > diecast shell. > > Mantua made some shells for the Hobbytown drive. I believe it was the > gimble mount shell but haven't been able to research that. It used the > Hobbytown universal diesel drive with flywheels, which as Vic said, go > pretty high these days. In fact there were some complete kits offered > by Hobbytown. Saw one on eBay three -- four months or so ago. Guy had > pictures of the boxes. Standard Hobbytown boxes with Hobbytown labels > showing the Mantua shell and universal diesel drive. Don't remember > what it went for but it was over $100.00 More than I could do at the > time. But boy was on that one like a hawk. > > I'm not sure when the plastic shell was introduced. It may not have > been until after the Tyco era started. Somewhere along the way, it and > the other diesels got that P.O.S. spur gear drive. I bought an Tyco > set for my first son around 1974 or 75. Darn thing crapped after a > very few hours of operation. > > Well, my ! original Shark is long gone. I now have a replacement first > generation replacement, maybe two. Plus I have one of those Hobbytown > drive shells just waiting for a reasonable priced universal drive. > > Still looking for a Mantua Atlantic without a Belpaire boiler. > > John Hagen > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%2AvintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] > *On Behalf Of *Victor Bitleris > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:54 PM > *To:* vintageho@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageho%40yahoogroups.com> > *Subject:* RE: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark? > > Hi Steve, > Absolutely Mantua made some very nice cast metal Sharks. The title on > the box says, Shark Nose, the Diesel. I have 3 of the A units and > have been looking for a B unit. I missed out on some via eBay several > times. Once, because my network connection failed at ! the most > inopportune time, another, because I forgot to bid, until it was too > late. I used to have an A-B set when I was about 12 years old in 1960 > and they ran very well on Atlas brass sectional track on a ping pong > table. We had a lot of fun running these. Much to my disagreement, > my older brother converted the old Mantua loop and hook coupers to the > "NMRA" Rail Line horn hooks. We were not aware of Kadees at that > time. Too bad the originals got destroyed somehow or another, I wish > I would have saved these. > Hobbytown of Boston made some replacement mechanisms for these and > occasionally they show up on eBay, but they are not cheap. > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > --

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19310	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Hi Denny,  Don't confuse the bidder described in your second paragraph with someone who is only willing to bid what the item is worth to him/her or the bidder who knows how high he can afford to bid and sticks to it. I was a recent customer of yours. The cars are very nice and you are correct that they need some weight.   Thanks.  Lon From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid   Jim, That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders.  Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents.  The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.    The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that.  That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning.  I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard C., > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > Jim H > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > Jim H > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19311	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

I have one of George's passenger cars. I'd sure appreciate it if you could post a couple of pictures of his decorated engine. Mike Bauers On May 12, 2012, at 8:02 PM, <raul@...> wrote: > > -- > Sorry John They were sacrified to a eBay habit. I still have two metal sharks that were from > George Drury, they are painted for his Westminster Lines, oned is also lettered. Roger

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19312	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind

I'll post those late Sunday. I wanted to post them in the original message. But it was enough of a hard day that I was quite tired when I wrote the message. And it's about that way again. I found them in two ways. 20-50 already wired for 12 vt at about $8, and just the regular leds at $3-$6 for a 100. Mike Bauers On May 12, 2012, at 9:18 AM, Richard wrote: > > Mike Bauers wrote: > "I still need to place an order for some of the more exotic tiny LED's and I found a place that sells them on the order of 100 for $3-$6, depending upon type. I ordered a 100 warm-white 3mm leds from a eBay source to see what they would be like. I haven't tested them yet. But I liked the way they got here fast enough from H.K." > > Mike, > Would appreciate the link to where you purchased your warm white LEDs. Thanks. > Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19313	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

All, So it appears I haven't passed over anything too major. Thats a relief. Funny, I'd never heard of a Mantua metal shark! Ah, learn something new every day. Still feeling very sick, so have not left my desk in the past few hours. Building some wood structures, and also redoing the roof spars on a few of the Comet cars I got today. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 5/12/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 12, 2012, 9:13 PM   I have one of George's passenger cars. I'd sure appreciate it if you could post a couple of pictures of his decorated engine. Mike Bauers On May 12, 2012, at 8:02 PM, <raul@...> wrote: > > -- > Sorry John They were sacrified to a eBay habit. I still have two metal sharks that were from > George Drury, they are painted for his Westminster Lines, oned is also lettered. Roger

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19314	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

Attachments : VINTAGE 02.jpg VINTAGE 01 (2).jpg -- Attached are pix of the George Drury shark, the gold letterring does not show up well on the red carbody. I have one of his head end cars but cannot locate it at the moment. Roger Aultman -- On Sat, 5/12/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Metal Shark? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 12, 2012, 9:13 PM   I have one of George's passenger cars. I'd sure appreciate it if you could post a couple of pictures of his decorated engine. Mike Bauers On May 12, 2012, at 8:02 PM, <raul@...> wrote: > > -- > Sorry John They were sacrified to a eBay habit. I still have two metal sharks that were from > George Drury, they are painted for his Westminster Lines, oned is also lettered. Roger

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19315	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Richard C. et al., I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated! Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19316	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind

Looking forward to following this.  I've always wanted one of these.  Did you get the trailer too? John B. Allyn 3602 Hoods Hill Road Nashville TN 37215 615-298-2873 (H) 615-973-4280 (C) 615-297-3870 (Fax) From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 10:41:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] I'm falling behind   I finally got a much desired GM&O Walthers gas-electric !! It would be more correct to say I won one and it will be shipped soon. It's been a good couple of weeks, I was also able to get a Westwood B&O semi-closed vestibule Royal Blue Coach. I've been after these two for a long time. It looks like both kits are virginal. I'm not building the B&O. I wanted it to study it's engineering and it's got some surprising features. But the GM&O gasser will be built and powered with a eye to dolling her up with lights and DCC-sound. That will be a Fall project. I still need to place an order for some of the more exotic tiny LED's and I found a place that sells them on the order of 100 for $3-$6, depending upon type. I ordered a 100 warm-white 3mm leds from a eBay source to see what they would be like. I haven't tested them yet. But I liked the way they got here fast enough from H.K. I've found a US supplier at about the same price as the H.K. eBay buyer. It's nothing earth shattering. I find myself thinking in terms of if I order 200-300 of any size at these prices, I'll be well set-up for a lifetime. I'm not sure what to use for the drives on the Walthers Gassers. I have a half dozen or so that I need to power and I'm thinking of using the Bachmann HO trolley power drives. They cost about $13. I'd like to get one or two of the NWSL Stantion drives. But since they are about $80, I just can't go out and get a half dozen of them. I know the Bachmann drives may be slower than other power trucks. But a Gas Electric is slower than a lot of other passenger trains anyway. I did see a very nice way of building the power truck end of a Paul Moore trolley. It was built much like a race car internal tube chassis which gives quite a bit of strength to a Walthers vintage passenger construction. it's much like an A-frame on each side of the car over the power truck section made from small brass square tubing, as near as I can tell. I can see how the actual motor mount can be added to such a sub-frame. With a bit of creativity, I should be able to make a power truck mount for each type of power truck and mate that to the sub-frame. I'm hopeful I can have the needed elements for both the Bachmann and the NWSL mounts as part of the same subframe. That's part of what makes this a Fall project. As to what I have in mind for the Westwood kit, lets just say I will have a bunch of blueprinting sessions with the various parts as I use a micrometer and a vernier and make a slew of notes from them. The platform doors are really nice.......... Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19317	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Hi Richard,   For years I bid by odd amounts myself, I use the 3,5 and 9 system myself, I often am suspicious of how things worked when the final bid put it right to the amount of my highest bid, as a seller, I've never been able to figure out what the highest bid is, but I figure someone must have an idea as some auctions I have won came right out to my highest bid right to the penny!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid     I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19318	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

When the auction ends with the highest bid coming out equal to my bid - I tag the seller and never again bid on their listings. Simple way to get rid of the shills. On the other hand,I once had a fellow bid in a multi item auction, ( I think eBay dropped them) where you bid a price PER ITEM for the number of items that you want. He didn't understand that and bid an unGodly amount for 24 scratch built ore cars. I couldn't in good conscence hold him to that bid so we renogiated a lower price that was still above any other bids. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 5/12/12, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > Hi Richard, > > For years I bid by odd amounts myself, I use the 3,5 and 9 system myself, I > often am suspicious of how things worked when the final bid put it right to > the amount of my highest bid, as a seller, I've never been able to figure > out what the highest bid is, but I figure someone must have an idea as some > auctions I have won came right out to my highest bid right to the penny! > > Gary W > > > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to > answer life's two most important questions! > > From: Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:10 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think > I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever > answered me. Richard C. > > From:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] close bid > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > spare. Never had that happen before. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19319	From: rcjge	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Anyone collecting Varney embossed side Pullman cars?

Hi Guys: I have a partially assembled Varney Embossed side PA-300 Pullman in the original box. I was going to list it with some other stuff on my local Craigslist/Kijiji for sale but thought I would check for interest here first.... If you do collect these and are interested please email me.... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19320	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

I understood what you were saying and also how you won it. I was throwing out the occurrence I had from the other side and hoping maybe someone could tell me how it could happen.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Richard C.,      My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid.                                                           Jim H On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid     I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19321	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Richard C. et al.,   I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated!   Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19322	From: Nelson	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: I'm falling behind

Weird coincidence, Mike. I ordered 100 myself, and was thinking about posting about them once the arrived. I bought them on May 3rd, but they're still in transit. At least the seller provides tracking info. Is this the same dealer? This was the cheapest deal I could find that included limiting resistors. You have to specify the 470 ohm for 12 volts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/160437958511 Same seller, pre-wired: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160545469653 Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'll post those late Sunday. > > I wanted to post them in the original message. But it was enough of a hard day that I was quite tired when I wrote the message. And it's about that way again. > > I found them in two ways. 20-50 already wired for 12 vt at about $8, and just the regular leds at $3-$6 for a 100. > > Mike Bauers > > On May 12, 2012, at 9:18 AM, Richard wrote: > > > > > Mike Bauers wrote: > > "I still need to place an order for some of the more exotic tiny LED's and I found a place that sells them on the order of 100 for $3-$6, depending upon type. I ordered a 100 warm-white 3mm leds from a eBay source to see what they would be like. I haven't tested them yet. But I liked the way they got here fast enough from H.K." > > > > Mike, > > Would appreciate the link to where you purchased your warm white LEDs. Thanks. > > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19323	From: Nelson	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

It's funny, I've been seeing these lately. At a small show last week a dealer had a metal Shark shell in Pennsy with a little paint loss for $5... I considered buying it, but passed. Today at a show in Allentown an older gent was selling a complete one in demonstrator scheme in the box for $35. He said he had 3 of them, and had sold 2 in very short order at that price. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > All, > > So it appears I haven't passed over anything too major. Thats a relief. Funny, I'd never heard of a Mantua metal shark! Ah, learn something new every day. > > Still feeling very sick, so have not left my desk in the past few hours. Building some wood structures, and also redoing the roof spars on a few of the Comet cars I got today. > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19324	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

True, the "dutch auction" does not involve proxy bids.  I bid a large amount once on one of those (as a snipe bid) and then found that was the bid, period.  The seller in that case was nice enough to realize my ignorance and adjusted it to something reasonable.  The ebay jerks get talked about a lot, but I have found [almost] everyone to be pretty decent.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Bechtel To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   When the auction ends with the highest bid coming out equal to my bid - I tag the seller and never again bid on their listings. Simple way to get rid of the shills. On the other hand,I once had a fellow bid in a multi item auction, ( I think eBay dropped them) where you bid a price PER ITEM for the number of items that you want. He didn't understand that and bid an unGodly amount for 24 scratch built ore cars. I couldn't in good conscence hold him to that bid so we renogiated a lower price that was still above any other bids. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 5/12/12, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > Hi Richard, > > For years I bid by odd amounts myself, I use the 3,5 and 9 system myself, I > often am suspicious of how things worked when the final bid put it right to > the amount of my highest bid, as a seller, I've never been able to figure > out what the highest bid is, but I figure someone must have an idea as some > auctions I have won came right out to my highest bid right to the penny! > > Gary W > > > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to > answer life's two most important questions! > > From: Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:10 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think > I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever > answered me. Richard C. > > From:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] close bid > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > spare. Never had that happen before. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19325	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Here is the answer from ebay:   http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html   To summarize the salient information:   If your bid is a proxy bid higher than the bid amount above the next highest bidder, ebay will use the bid increment.   For a reserve auction, if you bid above the reserve price, ebay will increase your bid to the reserve price even if that increase is higher than the bid increment.   Somebody only needs to exceed your proxy bid by 0.01.  Their example is an auction starting at $8.50 where you place a $20.00 bid.  Somebody else bids $20.01 and they win it for $20.01.   I myself have experienced winning something with a penny or pennies difference.  I think that to do that the other bidder's proxy bid must be higher than the next bid by at least the bid increment.  I think ebay requires your bid to be at least one increment above what is currently winning, not necessarily what is currently sitting there as a proxy bid.   For example, consider the following $1.00 bid increment auction that currently looks like this:   $33.00 is high bid (but unbeknownst to us this bidder actually bid a proxy amount of $36.00 sitting there).   We can bid anything from $34.00 on up.   If we bid $34.00, their bid automatically increments to $35.00.   If we bid $34.25, their bid automatically increments to $35.25.   If we bid $36.00, they are still high bidder and we will show as second highest (because they bid it first).   If we bid $36.01, we are now high bidder at $36.01 and the next bid allowed would have to be $37.01 or higher.   I don't think there is anything nefarious about this.   However, I think there CAN be something nefarious with the "second chance" bid.  In this case, the high bidder either bailed out or the seller has a duplicate.   In either case, you are expected to pay whatever the high bidder "pulled you up" to no matter how far down the third highest bidder was.   Consider this final scenario:   $400  Highest bidder (could have bid anything from $400 up, we don't know, but probably did more than $400 and the auto bid put it one $5.00 bid increment above your bid.) $395  You $215  Third highest bidder   You get a "second chance offer" to buy it for $395.00   In the case where a bidder bailed out (which could easily be a shill) I think the only fair thing to do is unwind the auction as if that high bidder were never there.  The high bid that was not honored by that buyer should not be allowed to taint the auction and you should be able to get it for $220 which is what would have existed "but for" the bogus bidder.   In the case of a duplicate, again, I don't think the activity of one auction should spill over onto another.  There should either be a new auction, or the offer at $220.00.   Enjoy!   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid   Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C. et al., I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated! Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19326	From: RalphB	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > My painted Sharks came with Mantua loop couplers. If I remember > right Tyco also produced them but they had stripes painted on the body > and the word TYCO on the sides. ----------------------- There's a Tyco metal-bodied Shark sitting down in my basement; it's part of a train set that includes a couple of cars and a 4-wheel bobber caboose. It's in the original box, and all are equipped with Mantua loop couplers. The locomotive body is painted silver and the nose and side stripes are decals, and I think the TYCO name is too. My late father-in-law acquired the set several years ago and gave it to my son; I'm just storing if for him. The inventory program I use included the ability to link to pictures of the equipment. I'd post one to the files, but the ones I have were taken off the web for personal use only. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19327	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

They don’t. What happens is someone bids whatever amount, say, $50.01, on an item that had high bib of say, 35.00 at the time. Well over the required increase.   However, the bid shown only goes up by the minimum. Someone later puts in a $50.00 bid. The $50.01 bid must win as it is the highest bid.   Now this is going to raise all kinds of BS about how eBay does it’s auctions. Well, I feel there is several good reasons for how they do it. I may just take the time (when I have it, not on Mother’s Day morning however) to write that essay up but for now the simple answer is if you don’t like it, complain to eBay or don’t use their product. The fastest way to achieve change is for enough people to abandon their site.=   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Carbo Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:44 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Richard C. et al.,   I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated!   Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19328	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Hmmm, I haven’t had a “second chance” offer in months, are they still allowing that? I have seen many relisted items, some after supposedly legitimate bids above the reserve. That could sometimes be the result of a shill.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ckinzer@... Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Here is the answer from ebay:   http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html   To summarize the salient information:   If your bid is a proxy bid higher than the bid amount above the next highest bidder, ebay will use the bid increment.   For a reserve auction, if you bid above the reserve price, ebay will increase your bid to the reserve price even if that increase is higher than the bid increment.   Somebody only needs to exceed your proxy bid by 0.01.  Their example is an auction starting at $8.50 where you place a $20.00 bid.  Somebody else bids $20.01 and they win it for $20.01.   I myself have experienced winning something with a penny or pennies difference.  I think that to do that the other bidder's proxy bid must be higher than the next bid by at least the bid increment.  I think ebay requires your bid to be at least one increment above what is currently winning, not necessarily what is currently sitting there as a proxy bid.   For example, consider the following $1.00 bid increment auction that currently looks like this:   $33.00 is high bid (but unbeknownst to us this bidder actually bid a proxy amount of $36.00 sitting there).   We can bid anything from $34.00 on up.   If we bid $34.00, their bid automatically increments to $35.00.   If we bid $34.25, their bid automatically increments to $35.25.   If we bid $36.00, they are still high bidder and we will show as second highest (because they bid it first).   If we bid $36.01, we are now high bidder at $36.01 and the next bid allowed would have to be $37.01 or higher.   I don't think there is anything nefarious about this.   However, I think there CAN be something nefarious with the "second chance" bid.  In this case, the high bidder either bailed out or the seller has a duplicate.   In either case, you are expected to pay whatever the high bidder "pulled you up" to no matter how far down the third highest bidder was.   Consider this final scenario:   $400  Highest bidder (could have bid anything from $400 up, we don't know, but probably did more than $400 and the auto bid put it one $5.00 bid increment above your bid.) $395  You $215  Third highest bidder   You get a "second chance offer" to buy it for $395.00   In the case where a bidder bailed out (which could easily be a shill) I think the only fair thing to do is unwind the auction as if that high bidder were never there.  The high bid that was not honored by that buyer should not be allowed to taint the auction and you should be able to get it for $220 which is what would have existed "but for" the bogus bidder.   In the case of a duplicate, again, I don't think the activity of one auction should spill over onto another.  There should either be a new auction, or the offer at $220.00.   Enjoy!   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C. et al., I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated! Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19329	From: rcjge	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Metal Shark?

Have to dig my metal A/B combo out to see what version they are... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19330	From: Mike Christian	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Tales of eBay

Hi All,   I noticed the question about how can I lose a bid by one penny (rather than the lowest incremental bid).   The answer is usually that the winning bid was placed BEFORE the bid that was a penny less. In this case, the highest bid (even though only a penny higher) wins because it was placed BEFORE the other bid. I have lost auctions this way because I usually use AUCTION SNIPER than submits my bid 7 seconds or so before the end of the auction. Say the minimum incremental bid is $.25, and assume the highest bid is $10.75. If my Auction Sniper bid is $10.89 and it is bid 7 seconds before the end of the auction, I lose.   On the other hand, if I placed a regular eBay bid of $10.89 three days (or whatever) before the end of the auction, and someone else bids $10.75 before the auction closes (but AFTER I bid $10.89 as my max), then I win the auction even though my bid is less than the minimum incremental bid above $10.75 (which would obviously be $11.00).   As for using odd amounts to bid, I have always liked using numbers that end in 89 cents. It has worked well over the years, but I haven’t kept statistics on the actual win/loss ratio.   As for running up bids, I abhor the practice, but admit I have done it from time to time when a particular bidder has ticked me off. I remember one time years ago one seller had about 5 complete Athearn Train Sets from the 50’s & 60’s up for auction and one guy had bid on all of them. I wanted one set in particular, so I decided to bid until I was the high bidder. I had to go to just over $300! But I really wanted that set. So I then bid $299 on all the other sets to bid up the price on them. Upon reflection I guess that was not a nice thing to do, but the guy ticked me off  because he obviously had deep pockets and I didn’t. I’m sure the seller was pleased!   These days I don’t do eBay often as it seems:   too many people don’t know a thing about what they are selling   prices are ridiculous in many instances   shipping is getting to be way too much (not always the sellers fault, but when the same item as shipping charges that range from $3.00 to $10 I get suspicious)   Too many folks don’t know how to pack trains so they aren’t destroyed in shipment.   I am trying to dispose of a lot of trains right now and have opted for seeking out dealers that want old stuff (http://www.oldmodelkits.com/ is one). I have gotten about 80% of what I bought the models for, and after paying eBay and Paypal fees, that’s about all I got when I sold on eBay.   HO Seeker has FREE auctions, I just wish there was more traffic there.     Happy Mother’s Day!   Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19331	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Chuck, Thank you very much for the explanation. Even though I understand it, I don’t agree with it. I believe most of us use proxy bids. I think the winning bid should have to be at least the published increment. Richard PS: Losing to a Sniper by $.01 really frosts me. J RLC   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ckinzer@... Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Here is the answer from ebay:   http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html   To summarize the salient information:   If your bid is a proxy bid higher than the bid amount above the next highest bidder, ebay will use the bid increment.   For a reserve auction, if you bid above the reserve price, ebay will increase your bid to the reserve price even if that increase is higher than the bid increment.   Somebody only needs to exceed your proxy bid by 0.01.  Their example is an auction starting at $8.50 where you place a $20.00 bid.  Somebody else bids $20.01 and they win it for $20.01.   I myself have experienced winning something with a penny or pennies difference.  I think that to do that the other bidder's proxy bid must be higher than the next bid by at least the bid increment.  I think ebay requires your bid to be at least one increment above what is currently winning, not necessarily what is currently sitting there as a proxy bid.   For example, consider the following $1.00 bid increment auction that currently looks like this:   $33.00 is high bid (but unbeknownst to us this bidder actually bid a proxy amount of $36.00 sitting there).   We can bid anything from $34.00 on up.   If we bid $34.00, their bid automatically increments to $35.00.   If we bid $34.25, their bid automatically increments to $35.25.   If we bid $36.00, they are still high bidder and we will show as second highest (because they bid it first).   If we bid $36.01, we are now high bidder at $36.01 and the next bid allowed would have to be $37.01 or higher.   I don't think there is anything nefarious about this.   However, I think there CAN be something nefarious with the "second chance" bid.  In this case, the high bidder either bailed out or the seller has a duplicate.   In either case, you are expected to pay whatever the high bidder "pulled you up" to no matter how far down the third highest bidder was.   Consider this final scenario:   $400  Highest bidder (could have bid anything from $400 up, we don't know, but probably did more than $400 and the auto bid put it one $5.00 bid increment above your bid.) $395  You $215  Third highest bidder   You get a "second chance offer" to buy it for $395.00   In the case where a bidder bailed out (which could easily be a shill) I think the only fair thing to do is unwind the auction as if that high bidder were never there.  The high bid that was not honored by that buyer should not be allowed to taint the auction and you should be able to get it for $220 which is what would have existed "but for" the bogus bidder.   In the case of a duplicate, again, I don't think the activity of one auction should spill over onto another.  There should either be a new auction, or the offer at $220.00.   Enjoy!   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C. et al., I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated! Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19332	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: Tales of eBay

Mike and All, In my case, losing by a penny or in any case less than the increment has always occurred when someone places a bid after I have bid, am the high bidder and have a max bid waiting for eBay to increase as and if other bids come in. If I was bidding late or sniping, I would understand it. Richard   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Christian Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 10:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Tales of eBay     Hi All,   I noticed the question about how can I lose a bid by one penny (rather than the lowest incremental bid).   The answer is usually that the winning bid was placed BEFORE the bid that was a penny less. In this case, the highest bid (even though only a penny higher) wins because it was placed BEFORE the other bid. I have lost auctions this way because I usually use AUCTION SNIPER than submits my bid 7 seconds or so before the end of the auction. Say the minimum incremental bid is $.25, and assume the highest bid is $10.75. If my Auction Sniper bid is $10.89 and it is bid 7 seconds before the end of the auction, I lose.   On the other hand, if I placed a regular eBay bid of $10.89 three days (or whatever) before the end of the auction, and someone else bids $10.75 before the auction closes (but AFTER I bid $10.89 as my max), then I win the auction even though my bid is less than the minimum incremental bid above $10.75 (which would obviously be $11.00).   As for using odd amounts to bid, I have always liked using numbers that end in 89 cents. It has worked well over the years, but I haven’t kept statistics on the actual win/loss ratio.   As for running up bids, I abhor the practice, but admit I have done it from time to time when a particular bidder has ticked me off. I remember one time years ago one seller had about 5 complete Athearn Train Sets from the 50’s & 60’s up for auction and one guy had bid on all of them. I wanted one set in particular, so I decided to bid until I was the high bidder. I had to go to just over $300! But I really wanted that set. So I then bid $299 on all the other sets to bid up the price on them. Upon reflection I guess that was not a nice thing to do, but the guy ticked me off  because he obviously had deep pockets and I didn’t. I’m sure the seller was pleased!   These days I don’t do eBay often as it seems:   too many people don’t know a thing about what they are selling   prices are ridiculous in many instances   shipping is getting to be way too much (not always the sellers fault, but when the same item as shipping charges that range from $3.00 to $10 I get suspicious)   Too many folks don’t know how to pack trains so they aren’t destroyed in shipment.   I am trying to dispose of a lot of trains right now and have opted for seeking out dealers that want old stuff (http://www.oldmodelkits.com/ is one). I have gotten about 80% of what I bought the models for, and after paying eBay and Paypal fees, that’s about all I got when I sold on eBay.   HO Seeker has FREE auctions, I just wish there was more traffic there.     Happy Mother’s Day!   Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19333	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

It is being done the best way there is. Once your bid is in, the only you should lose would be if you are over bid. The increment is necessary to prevent a whole crap house of one cent bids. This was developed over many years and is a very easy to use system. It is also fair to both sellers and bidders. Is it perfect? At times yes and at times no. Nothing is perfect all the time.   Incremental bidding prevents stupid bidding as stated above. And somehow I don’t have a definition for “sniper bids” other having some program do your bidding for you. So what? You can do the same thing yourself if you want to spend the time. Everyone uses “proxy” bids. The only way to lose by one cent has now been brought forth in this thread two times at least. The winning bid had to have placed before the lower bid was. If you are bidding at the last second, and you don’t get the message that you have been out bid and get a message that you lost by one frickin cent, it is because the auction ended! It’s happened to me. That is why we have proxy bids. To use them properly, one should bid the absolute maximum one is willing to pay for the item. Then sit back and wait. If one gets an outbid notice one can, provided there is enough time left, raise one’s bid. If you really bid the max. you feel you should bid, so what? If you bid less than that, why? It would appear that you are playing bidding games and you may win lose.  But don’t blame the auction operator. I used to play the games and get in the final bidding rush (if there is one) and found it was just adding stress to my life. Nowadays I bid what I am comfortable with at a reasonable time before the bidding ends. That could be anything from several days to one half hour. Doing it that way also can save one from bidding way more than the item is worth or than the bidder can afford to spend. When you’re doing what amounts to competitive bidding, almost like being at the auction,  prices can rise much above value and your fingers can key in checks your ass can’t cover.   It’s all a matter of learning the system, using the system and realizing you’re not going to win them all.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Carbo Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 11:40 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     Chuck, Thank you very much for the explanation. Even though I understand it, I don’t agree with it. I believe most of us use proxy bids. I think the winning bid should have to be at least the published increment. Richard PS: Losing to a Sniper by $.01 really frosts me. J RLC   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ckinzer@... Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Here is the answer from ebay:   http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html   To summarize the salient information:   If your bid is a proxy bid higher than the bid amount above the next highest bidder, ebay will use the bid increment.   For a reserve auction, if you bid above the reserve price, ebay will increase your bid to the reserve price even if that increase is higher than the bid increment.   Somebody only needs to exceed your proxy bid by 0.01.  Their example is an auction starting at $8.50 where you place a $20.00 bid.  Somebody else bids $20.01 and they win it for $20.01.   I myself have experienced winning something with a penny or pennies difference.  I think that to do that the other bidder's proxy bid must be higher than the next bid by at least the bid increment.  I think ebay requires your bid to be at least one increment above what is currently winning, not necessarily what is currently sitting there as a proxy bid.   For example, consider the following $1.00 bid increment auction that currently looks like this:   $33.00 is high bid (but unbeknownst to us this bidder actually bid a proxy amount of $36.00 sitting there).   We can bid anything from $34.00 on up.   If we bid $34.00, their bid automatically increments to $35.00.   If we bid $34.25, their bid automatically increments to $35.25.   If we bid $36.00, they are still high bidder and we will show as second highest (because they bid it first).   If we bid $36.01, we are now high bidder at $36.01 and the next bid allowed would have to be $37.01 or higher.   I don't think there is anything nefarious about this.   However, I think there CAN be something nefarious with the "second chance" bid.  In this case, the high bidder either bailed out or the seller has a duplicate.   In either case, you are expected to pay whatever the high bidder "pulled you up" to no matter how far down the third highest bidder was.   Consider this final scenario:   $400  Highest bidder (could have bid anything from $400 up, we don't know, but probably did more than $400 and the auto bid put it one $5.00 bid increment above your bid.) $395  You $215  Third highest bidder   You get a "second chance offer" to buy it for $395.00   In the case where a bidder bailed out (which could easily be a shill) I think the only fair thing to do is unwind the auction as if that high bidder were never there.  The high bid that was not honored by that buyer should not be allowed to taint the auction and you should be able to get it for $220 which is what would have existed "but for" the bogus bidder.   In the case of a duplicate, again, I don't think the activity of one auction should spill over onto another.  There should either be a new auction, or the offer at $220.00.   Enjoy!   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C. et al., I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated! Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19334	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks

Tyco goes back to at least the mid-fifties.  It was Mantua's RTR train set brand.  My best Xmas present ever was a Tyco train set with an all-metal Pacific lettered (just as Jim remembers) Tyco with three extruded bodies/plastic ends streamline cars -- baggage (with working doors, natch), coach, and observation.  Mantua couplers, of course.  My younger sister dropped the engine to the floor, destroying the pilot, though she denies doing it to this day.  John B. Allyn From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:53:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > My painted Sharks came with Mantua loop couplers. If I remember > right Tyco also produced them but they had stripes painted on the body > and the word TYCO on the sides. ----------------------- There's a Tyco metal-bodied Shark sitting down in my basement; it's part of a train set that includes a couple of cars and a 4-wheel bobber caboose. It's in the original box, and all are equipped with Mantua loop couplers. The locomotive body is painted silver and the nose and side stripes are decals, and I think the TYCO name is too. My late father-in-law acquired the set several years ago and gave it to my son; I'm just storing if for him. The inventory program I use included the ability to link to pictures of the equipment. I'd post one to the files, but the ones I have were taken off the web for personal use only. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19335	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: Tales of eBay

Mike Christian, Your explanation of the eBay winning bid process is the best I've seen. I think you hit the nail on the head. Walter On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Mike Christian <mikec@...> wrote:   Hi All,   I noticed the question about how can I lose a bid by one penny (rather than the lowest incremental bid).   The answer is usually that the winning bid was placed BEFORE the bid that was a penny less. In this case, the highest bid (even though only a penny higher) wins because it was placed BEFORE the other bid. I have lost auctions this way because I usually use AUCTION SNIPER than submits my bid 7 seconds or so before the end of the auction. Say the minimum incremental bid is $.25, and assume the highest bid is $10.75. If my Auction Sniper bid is $10.89 and it is bid 7 seconds before the end of the auction, I lose.   On the other hand, if I placed a regular eBay bid of $10.89 three days (or whatever) before the end of the auction, and someone else bids $10.75 before the auction closes (but AFTER I bid $10.89 as my max), then I win the auction even though my bid is less than the minimum incremental bid above $10.75 (which would obviously be $11.00).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19336	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Lon, I agree that some bidders only want to go to a certain amount and I fully understand that and appreciate their sensible bidding practices and unwillingness to get caught up in the moment.  However at one point in my 13 plus years of dealing on Ebay I had several bidders who pushed the price of items up and then backed off.  I knew something was strange because there usually is a pattern to what people will buy like all ATSF or all Pennsy etc.  But these folks were all over the place.  I caught on and set the reserve price on one item at $148.21.  As suspected the individual who had pushed several of my auctions put in $148.48 which pushed the price over my reserve.  When the auction ended he wrote me saying he could not pay for the item.  I reported him to Ebay and noted other items he was bidding on.  I do not know what Ebay did about it but he never again bid on any of my items.  Not that I minded him pushing the prices up, I just though his practices were a bit unethical.  This was before Ebay protected bidders identities from being viewed by the general public. Now, I am at a loss.  What cars did you purchase from me? The Walthers cars? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: > >    Hi Denny,  Don't confuse the bidder described in your second paragraph with someone who is only willing to bid what the item is worth to him/her or the bidder who knows how high he can afford to bid and sticks to it. > > I was a recent customer of yours. The cars are very nice and you are correct that they need some weight.   Thanks.  Lon > > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > >   > Jim, > That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders.  Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents.  The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.    > The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that.  That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning.  I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.   > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com  > Facebook: CWRailman  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard jimheck@ wrote: > > > > Richard C., > > > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19337	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

I had a "second chance"  recently on some Athearn tank car parts that I needed for a project.  Seller apparently had a duplicate set of parts.  I didn't have any complaints as I had stopped at what I thought the parts were worth.  The other situation was an item that was sold as a "Japanese Import Stock Car".  I think that simpler souls thought that they were getting some hand crafted brass prize for $20.  I'd bid $3 on it as it was a die cast plus wood International Models product.  About a month after the auction had ended the seller asked if I was still willing to pay $3 for it.  I was, and we did the transaction through E Bay so that they got their cut.  I suspect that he had gone through two or three higher bidders at that point. After a complete rebuilding the stock car came out looking pretty good.  I'll post a picture someday. John B. Allyn From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:03:41 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid   Hmmm, I haven’t had a “second chance” offer in months, are they still allowing that? I have seen many relisted items, some after supposedly legitimate bids above the reserve. That could sometimes be the result of a shill.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ckinzer@... Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     Here is the answer from ebay:   http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html   To summarize the salient information:   If your bid is a proxy bid higher than the bid amount above the next highest bidder, ebay will use the bid increment.   For a reserve auction, if you bid above the reserve price, ebay will increase your bid to the reserve price even if that increase is higher than the bid increment.   Somebody only needs to exceed your proxy bid by 0.01.  Their example is an auction starting at $8.50 where you place a $20.00 bid.  Somebody else bids $20.01 and they win it for $20.01.   I myself have experienced winning something with a penny or pennies difference.  I think that to do that the other bidder's proxy bid must be higher than the next bid by at least the bid increment.  I think ebay requires your bid to be at least one increment above what is currently winning, not necessarily what is currently sitting there as a proxy bid.   For example, consider the following $1.00 bid increment auction that currently looks like this:   $33.00 is high bid (but unbeknownst to us this bidder actually bid a proxy amount of $36.00 sitting there).   We can bid anything from $34.00 on up.   If we bid $34.00, their bid automatically increments to $35.00.   If we bid $34.25, their bid automatically increments to $35.25.   If we bid $36.00, they are still high bidder and we will show as second highest (because they bid it first).   If we bid $36.01, we are now high bidder at $36.01 and the next bid allowed would have to be $37.01 or higher.   I don't think there is anything nefarious about this.   However, I think there CAN be something nefarious with the "second chance" bid.  In this case, the high bidder either bailed out or the seller has a duplicate.   In either case, you are expected to pay whatever the high bidder "pulled you up" to no matter how far down the third highest bidder was.   Consider this final scenario:   $400  Highest bidder (could have bid anything from $400 up, we don't know, but probably did more than $400 and the auto bid put it one $5.00 bid increment above your bid.) $395  You $215  Third highest bidder   You get a "second chance offer" to buy it for $395.00   In the case where a bidder bailed out (which could easily be a shill) I think the only fair thing to do is unwind the auction as if that high bidder were never there.  The high bid that was not honored by that buyer should not be allowed to taint the auction and you should be able to get it for $220 which is what would have existed "but for" the bogus bidder.   In the case of a duplicate, again, I don't think the activity of one auction should spill over onto another.  There should either be a new auction, or the offer at $220.00.   Enjoy!   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     Walter, That is exactly what I am talking about. My question is, how does that happen?  BTW, are you saying you placed a Snipe bid and didn’t win because you did not exceed by the increment? That I could understand, but I can’t understand how anyone wins without meeting or exceeding the increment? Richard C From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C. et al., I've lost by $.01 several times. I've also lost a few with Snipe bids that were $.10 and $.20 HIGHER than the winning bid. They didn't equal or exceed the required 'increment'. Talk about feeling frustrated! Walter On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo <flyerguy3@...> wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19338	From: Glenn	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

I liked having the bidders’ ID’s open—not so much as to know all the bidders, bur with a certain group of friends—we would often not bid against each other—and occasionally I would recognize someone with a “bottomless checkbook—“ against whom, I would know it was useless to bid—used to have some of these at the Coast C|Div. PCR  auctions--  gj   From: cwrailman Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid   Lon, I agree that some bidders only want to go to a certain amount and I fully understand that and appreciate their sensible bidding practices and unwillingness to get caught up in the moment.  However at one point in my 13 plus years of dealing on Ebay I had several bidders who pushed the price of items up and then backed off.  I knew something was strange because there usually is a pattern to what people will buy like all ATSF or all Pennsy etc.  But these folks were all over the place.  I caught on and set the reserve price on one item at $148.21.  As suspected the individual who had pushed several of my auctions put in $148.48 which pushed the price over my reserve.  When the auction ended he wrote me saying he could not pay for the item.  I reported him to Ebay and noted other items he was bidding on.  I do not know what Ebay did about it but he never again bid on any of my items.  Not that I minded him pushing the prices up, I just though his practices were a bit unethical.  This was before Ebay protected bidders identities from being viewed by the general public. Now, I am at a loss.  What cars did you purchase from me? The Walthers cars? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: > >    Hi Denny,  Don't confuse the bidder described in your second paragraph with someone who is only willing to bid what the item is worth to him/her or the bidder who knows how high he can afford to bid and sticks to it. > > I was a recent customer of yours. The cars are very nice and you are correct that they need some weight.   Thanks.  Lon > > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > >   > Jim, > That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders.  Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents.  The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.   > The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that.  That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning.  I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.  > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com > Facebook: CWRailman > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard jimheck@ wrote: > > > > Richard C., > > > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19339	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

John, Sending additional bidders a second chance offer when the seller had duplicate items was normal operating mode until Ebay offered the multiple item option to sellers.  I guess some sellers are still using the second chance offer to sell their duplicate items. Glenn, I agree with you on being able to identify bidders for the same reasons you state.  I would back off on certain items if I knew the buyer and knew they needed it/wantd it more than I and others did the same for me.  Kind of like a gentleman's agreement.  Maybe Ebay did not like having "Gentlemen" participating in their auctions?? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I liked having the bidders’ ID’s openâ€"not so much as to know all the bidders, bur with a certain group of friendsâ€"we would often not bid against each otherâ€"and occasionally I would recognize someone with a “bottomless checkbookâ€"“ against whom, I would know it was useless to bidâ€"used to have some of these at the Coast C|Div. PCR auctions-- gj > > From: cwrailman > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > > > > Lon, > > I agree that some bidders only want to go to a certain amount and I fully understand that and appreciate their sensible bidding practices and unwillingness to get caught up in the moment. However at one point in my 13 plus years of dealing on Ebay I had several bidders who pushed the price of items up and then backed off. I knew something was strange because there usually is a pattern to what people will buy like all ATSF or all Pennsy etc. But these folks were all over the place. I caught on and set the reserve price on one item at $148.21. As suspected the individual who had pushed several of my auctions put in $148.48 which pushed the price over my reserve. When the auction ended he wrote me saying he could not pay for the item. I reported him to Ebay and noted other items he was bidding on. I do not know what Ebay did about it but he never again bid on any of my items. Not that I minded him pushing the prices up, I just though his practices were a bit unethical. This was before Ebay protected bidders identities from being viewed by the general public. > > Now, I am at a loss. What cars did you purchase from me? The Walthers cars? > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com > > Facebook: CWRailman > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker wlon17@ wrote: > > > >   Hi Denny, Don't confuse the bidder described in your second paragraph with someone who is only willing to bid what the item is worth to him/her or the bidder who knows how high he can afford to bid and sticks to it. > > > > I was a recent customer of yours. The cars are very nice and you are correct that they need some weight.  Thanks. Lon > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:20 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > > > > >  > > Jim, > > That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders. Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents. The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.   > > The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that. That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning. I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.  > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com > > Facebook: CWRailman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard jimheck@ wrote: > > > > > > Richard C., > > > > > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > > > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > > > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19340	From: prandn	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Richard, You didn't give enough information to give a concrete answer to your question, but there is one way I can explain your losing a bid by 1 cent. eBay uses a time & increment system of bidding. If I bid $5.01 at some time prior to your entereing a bid of $5.00 I will win the auction with a 1 cent difference. If on the other hand, you enter a $5.00 bid prior to my entering a bid of $5.01 ( which by the way eBay won't allow me to enter if your $5.00 bid is the current high bid ) Aha moment..... I just realized how you can lose by 1 cent...... You have entered a $5.00 high bid on an item that is opening at say 99 cents. The current high bid is say something $4.50 or less. If the eBay bid increment is 50 cents on that item and I bid after you $5.01 I will win that item, because my $5.01 bid beats your $5.00 bid by 1 cent and satisfies the 50 cent bid increment. Thanks for asking the question...... Loren Martell Beaverton, OR 97006 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Carbo" <flyerguy3@...> wrote: > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:33 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think > I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever > answered me. Richard C.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19341	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks

As near as I can determine, the switch from Mantua to Tyco may have been as early as 1957. I haven’t seen any Mantua catalogs later then 1955. Checking hoseeker.net there are catalogs listed as 1960 and 1962 but they contain nothing to support those dates. The covers do not look to be an advancement over their 1955 (which does have a cover date) and there are no diesels listed, not even the 1953 introduced Shark. Now everyone here that has looked has seen Sharks on eBay ever so often, often enough that they had to be a decent seller. And we know they went from Mantua to Tyco, from diecast to plastic and had at least two generations of power trucks. Ain’t no way they would not be listed in a Mantua catalog once they were introduced. I do not know when the first RTR Tyco model was introduced. Early fifties I believe. After the switch all of the models, RTR and kits, were Tyco. And they kept pretty close to the Mantua designs for a while until the bean counters got in absolute power. Then the changes (cheapening) started. Followed by the “silly” years. C-C trucked GG1’s indeed. A 2-8-0 pushed by a motorized tender. Somewhere along the way the change to horn-hooks came about too. I joined the Tyco group to try to dig up more data on the changes but it is a rather quiet bunch with not a lot of useful information so far. But I’ll keep digging.   Actually I went searching hoseeker for information on the Talgo train, which was a Mantua product. Nothing dated but when I studied the two pages, the second showing the exploded view had a hand written date of 1 – 57. I then checked both the F9 and GP20 sheets and one their exploded view pages both say Tyco kits and the GP20 shows a date of 10-62 while the F9 shows 1-66. At that time the power truck used the gimble mounts but still had the earlier motor with the worm and gear drive, not the silly spur drive of the later POS models.   That Pacific with the extruded passenger cars had to be great set. I never got too much into passenger trains (industrial and yard switching is my forte) but I am now (lightly) looking for some of those cars. They’ve become all most the de-facto cars to have behind a Penn Line Crusader. Makes a really good looking set.   Sorry, can’t help but ramble when it comes to post war Mantua.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john.allyn@... Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks     Tyco goes back to at least the mid-fifties.  It was Mantua's RTR train set brand.  My best Xmas present ever was a Tyco train set with an all-metal Pacific lettered (just as Jim remembers) Tyco with three extruded bodies/plastic ends streamline cars -- baggage (with working doors, natch), coach, and observation.  Mantua couplers, of course.  My younger sister dropped the engine to the floor, destroying the pilot, though she denies doing it to this day.  John B. Allyn   From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:53:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > My painted Sharks came with Mantua loop couplers. If I remember > right Tyco also produced them but they had stripes painted on the body > and the word TYCO on the sides. ----------------------- There's a Tyco metal-bodied Shark sitting down in my basement; it's part of a train set that includes a couple of cars and a 4-wheel bobber caboose. It's in the original box, and all are equipped with Mantua loop couplers. The locomotive body is painted silver and the nose and side stripes are decals, and I think the TYCO name is too. My late father-in-law acquired the set several years ago and gave it to my son; I'm just storing if for him. The inventory program I use included the ability to link to pictures of the equipment. I'd post one to the files, but the ones I have were taken off the web for personal use only. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19342	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

You liked it for the reasons stated and the sellers didn’t like it for the same reasons. If having the id available cuts the number of bidders by even one, it is can very easily lower the eventual selling price. Especially when you mention seeing someone with a “bottomless” checkbook. I mean, if you add a couple of bids not knowing this guy is bidding against you, how does that bother you? Yeah you wasted the time it took to enter a couple of bids but Mr. BC willingly overbid you and the seller made out a bit better. Now if the seller is a hobby shop that depends on eBay to keep itself alive, that’s good. If it is a fellow modeler that has to get rid of some surplus, that is also good. I admit there are some sellers I’d rather not help but they are in the minority.   You know, in all the groups I belong to, eBay discussions come up from time to time. And the complaints seem to be pretty evenly matched from sellers and buyers. Which to me makes it pretty fair.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:07 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: close bid     I liked having the bidders’ ID’s open—not so much as to know all the bidders, bur with a certain group of friends—we would often not bid against each other—and occasionally I would recognize someone with a “bottomless checkbook—“ against whom, I would know it was useless to bid—used to have some of these at the Coast C|Div. PCR  auctions--  gj   From: cwrailman Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19343	From: Lon Walker	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Hi Denny,    Yes, they were  Walther's  cars but not what you might be thinking. They were lightly weathered box cars: a T&P  car and an Ann Arbor car. You must be really confused by now. I got you mixed up with another seller who lives not far from me across the state line in Beloit Wisconsin. I think I must have been thinking about your site because I recently found it and added it to my Saved Sellers list. Sorry for the confusion.    I think I started on ebay not too long before they started hiding the identities of the bidders because I can remember trying to keep track of the ones that irritated me. It was a year or two before I discovered that you could look at the profile of the bidders.  One thing that confuses me is a bidder with a low feedback score but when you check it out he/she has a long list of wins. How does that work?   Thanks.   Lon Walker From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid   Lon, I agree that some bidders only want to go to a certain amount and I fully understand that and appreciate their sensible bidding practices and unwillingness to get caught up in the moment.  However at one point in my 13 plus years of dealing on Ebay I had several bidders who pushed the price of items up and then backed off.  I knew something was strange because there usually is a pattern to what people will buy like all ATSF or all Pennsy etc.  But these folks were all over the place.  I caught on and set the reserve price on one item at $148.21.  As suspected the individual who had pushed several of my auctions put in $148.48 which pushed the price over my reserve.  When the auction ended he wrote me saying he could not pay for the item.  I reported him to Ebay and noted other items he was bidding on.  I do not know what Ebay did about it but he never again bid on any of my items.  Not that I minded him pushing the prices up, I just though his practices were a bit unethical.  This was before Ebay protected bidders identities from being viewed by the general public. Now, I am at a loss.  What cars did you purchase from me? The Walthers cars? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: > >    Hi Denny,  Don't confuse the bidder described in your second paragraph with someone who is only willing to bid what the item is worth to him/her or the bidder who knows how high he can afford to bid and sticks to it. > > I was a recent customer of yours. The cars are very nice and you are correct that they need some weight.   Thanks.  Lon > > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:20 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > >   > Jim, > That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders.  Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents.  The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.    > The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that.  That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning.  I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.   > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com  > Facebook: CWRailman  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard jimheck@ wrote: > > > > Richard C., > > > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19344	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Lon, Not everybody posts Feedback so an Ebay participant will have a discrepancy between their feedback score and the number of transactions they have engaged in.  In fact I recently found one buyer who seldom posted positive feedback but had more negative feedback comments about stuff he had bought than I had ever seen before.  He is a real sellers nightmare. The spread between feedback and transactions is widening now that Ebay has made it more difficult to leave negative feedback.  Some buyers will not leave feedback if their purchase is anything less than they expected.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: > >    Hi Denny, > > >    Yes, they were  Walther's  cars but not what you might be thinking. They were lightly weathered box cars: a T&P  car and an Ann Arbor car. You must be really confused by now. I got you mixed up with another seller who lives not far from me across the state line in Beloit Wisconsin. I think I must have been thinking about your site because I recently found it and added it to my Saved Sellers list. Sorry for the confusion. > > >    I think I started on ebay not too long before they started hiding the identities of the bidders because I can remember trying to keep track of the ones that irritated me. It was a year or two before I discovered that you could look at the profile of the bidders.  One thing that confuses me is a bidder with a low feedback score but when you check it out he/she has a long list of wins. How does that work?   Thanks.   Lon Walker > > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:53 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > >   > Lon, > I agree that some bidders only want to go to a certain amount and I fully understand that and appreciate their sensible bidding practices and unwillingness to get caught up in the moment.  However at one point in my 13 plus years of dealing on Ebay I had several bidders who pushed the price of items up and then backed off.  I knew something was strange because there usually is a pattern to what people will buy like all ATSF or all Pennsy etc.  But these folks were all over the place.  I caught on and set the reserve price on one item at $148.21.  As suspected the individual who had pushed several of my auctions put in $148.48 which pushed the price over my reserve.  When the auction ended he wrote me saying he could not pay for the item.  I reported him to Ebay and noted other items he was bidding on.  I do not know what Ebay did about it but he never again bid on any of my items.  Not that I minded him pushing the prices up, I just though his > practices were a bit unethical.  This was before Ebay protected bidders identities from being viewed by the general public. > Now, I am at a loss.  What cars did you purchase from me? The Walthers cars? > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lon Walker wlon17@ wrote: > > > >    Hi Denny,  Don't confuse the bidder described in your second paragraph with someone who is only willing to bid what the item is worth to him/her or the bidder who knows how high he can afford to bid and sticks to it. > > > > I was a recent customer of yours. The cars are very nice and you are correct that they need some weight.   Thanks.  Lon > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:20 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid > > > > > >   > > Jim, > > That is a trick that has been used for years by seasoned Ebay bidders.  Most Ebay bidders enter even amounts rounded off to a quarter or fifty cents.  The SEAS O NED bidder will use 51 or 52 cents instead of fifty cents or on smaller items 26 or 27 cents instead of 25 cents.    > > The same thing goes for those who want to push the bids up but not quite win the item.  ( Yes there are people who like to play that game.)  Most items are priced for even amounts so if someone wants to push and they figure the reserve is $150, they will bid $148.50 or something like that.  That way they get the kicks of bidding without winning.  I have gone through bidders who like to play that game and I have ways of messing with them as I do not set my items for even amounts.   > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com  > > Facebook: CWRailman  > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard jimheck@ wrote: > > > > > > Richard C., > > > > > > My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second > > > highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny > > > that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > > > > > Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I > > > > questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would > > > > think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No > > > > one ever answered me. Richard C. > > > > > > > > *From:*vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] > > > > *On Behalf Of *Jim Heckard > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM > > > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage > > > > scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. > > > > I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid > > > > was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to > > > > spare. Never had that happen before. > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19345	From: Walter Bayer	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19346	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Hey Denny and Anon; We used to have a "dibs" thread "sticky" on the Tyco forum where someone could say I found this on ebay and it's important to me to get. It politely asked the others to "stand down" as we used to say in my Service days.It worked pretty well for the most part. There were of course guys who have way more money than others and a very poor sense of community who will abuse that kind of civility. Most of us are too young for this but there used to be an expression "Anyone but Ismay" famously about the man (White Star Line Chairman) who climbed into a Titanic lifeboat while other more chivalrous men stood aside for woman and children. Me I'd have picked the little prick up and thrown him over! ;) In any case we can't do anything about that. In fact thanks to peple like Joel Osteen and Oprah most folks think the world is about them and only their wants regardless of anyone else. Covered elsewhere under the 7 deadly sins... ;) In any case we could give that a try here. Certainly in my situation I can't afford to get into bidding wars with people. So perhaps "in community" we could figure something out... Just some thoughts... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19347	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball

Hey Gents: I just came across a partially assembled in excellent condition apparently parts complete Mantua 8 Ball. I don't often see these on ebay and I thought some of you who follow Mantua sales on Ebay might have a better idea as to how uncommon it is.Please note I'm not using the word "rare" which seems to have lost all meaning... It's brass/cast and I'll add some pics later. The second question is and this has been discussed before is if I were to build it up, how far to go? It's a pretty plain model as it came from the factory and would benefit from some detailing. Now it's a sure thing that back in the day people "modded" these to more closely resemble Moguls of a particular Prototype they favoured. However if they are getting a lot less common then perhaps I will leave it alone.... Thoughts??? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19348	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Being sheet brass, the superstructure is easy to detail and that's the route I would go.    About five years ago I got an 8 Ball Mogul on E Bay for a pretty attractive price.  It was pretty beat up (bad corrosion, dead motor, looked like ithad been stored in a very damp place, like the bottom of the ocean), but all I wanted was the boiler and cab to modernize a Belle of the Eighties (superstructures are interchangeable) that I already had.  Malcolm Vordenbaum and Bill McClanahan had an article in a 1950's MR about making the Belle into a credible model of an MKT American.  John B. Allyn From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:31:16 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua 8 Ball   Hey Gents: I just came across a partially assembled in excellent condition apparently parts complete Mantua 8 Ball. I don't often see these on ebay and I thought some of you who follow Mantua sales on Ebay might have a better idea as to how uncommon it is.Please note I'm not using the word "rare" which seems to have lost all meaning... It's brass/cast and I'll add some pics later. The second question is and this has been discussed before is if I were to build it up, how far to go? It's a pretty plain model as it came from the factory and would benefit from some detailing. Now it's a sure thing that back in the day people "modded" these to more closely resemble Moguls of a particular Prototype they favoured. However if they are getting a lot less common then perhaps I will leave it alone.... Thoughts??? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19349	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

It sure is easy to get far afield here with the broader discussion of chivalry, and I would love to get into a deeper philosophical discussion of how the only thing we can hope from wealthy business people in particular IS chivalry (and the hope that they want to make more money) because they are not in business to GIVE people jobs but to pay them for their services as needed and, incidentally, to not misuse their wealth to hurt the "common" folk. In a much more narrow sense I agree that a development of a sense of "community" here would enable the less fortunate of us to get some goodies on eBay that we might not otherwise obtain. Art W   In a message dated 5/14/2012 11:19:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jgpedwards@... writes: Hey Denny and Anon; We used to have a "dibs" thread "sticky" on the Tyco forum where someone could say I found this on ebay and it's important to me to get. It politely asked the others to "stand down" as we used to say in my Service days.It worked pretty well for the most part. There were of course guys who have way more money than others and a very poor sense of community who will abuse that kind of civility. Most of us are too young for this but there used to be an expression "Anyone but Ismay" famously about the man (White Star Line Chairman) who climbed into a Titanic lifeboat while other more chivalrous men stood aside for woman and children. Me I'd have picked the little prick up and thrown him over! ;) In any case we can't do anything about that. In fact thanks to peple like Joel Osteen and Oprah most folks think the world is about them and only their wants regardless of anyone else. Covered elsewhere under the 7 deadly sins... ;) In any case we could give that a try here. Certainly in my situation I can't afford to get into bidding wars with people. So perhaps "in community" we could figure something out... Just some thoughts... -Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19350	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Good points Art. I hope we can get some momentum behind the idea of a dibs board or list though. Ironically at this moment I can't think of a single train thing I "need". See- Maslow's Triangle of needs. But offering the idea makes sense. As to the wealthy yeah as someone who "served' I'd rather stay away at least on this list from discussing what we can hope for from the wealthy. ;) -Gareth (posting trimmed of course) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > It sure is easy to get far afield here with the broader discussion of > chivalry, and > Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19351	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hi John: Does that mean you wouldn't touch the Chassis in terms of detailing? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > Being sheet brass, the superstructure is easy to detail and that's the route I would go. > John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19352	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua couplers and horn hooks

I sold a couple of sets of 20 couplers a few years back. On set went for over $20! Now I don't throw out anything...list it on ebay first. I can't believe what sells.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Lon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua couplers and horn hooks   Hi Steve and Vic, I was wondering about the horn hook couplers. I had a lot from when I was actively replacing them with Kadees. I don't throw anything away that is train related so I have been using them to replace a missing coupler on almost any car that I get that already has one or I use one to make a transition car. Now my supply is being depleted. Also the ones that came with my vintage Herkimer cars dried up and crumbled. Steve mentioned uncoupling the Mantua couplers similar to Kadees. I have had a hard time getting them apart. I figured there must have been an uncoupler for them but I haven't seen one yet. Can anyone post some pictures of one or send a link to pictures? Thanks. Lon walker BTW I was going to bid a small amount on the Mantua trucks with horn hooks but it went crazy before I got around to it.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19353	From: 23weldon	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Close bids on eBay and other thoughts

I guess the following is drifting OT;  but I wanted to share with some folks who I have a lot of respect for ........... This eBay stuff has been an interesting discussion.  Here's some comments from my experience: 1.  I'm Ed Weldon.  Ebay id: esweldon.  5 digit code w***d has been unchanged for at least a year or so.  I have 2600+ feedbacks.  Means I have some useful experience and am a bit of a spendthrift.  Some of you might recognize me.  You are entitled to what ever honest emotion that brings out. 2.  The key to eBay bidding is to know the real market value of what you are bidding on, what percentage of that is your personal "uncomfortable point" and what's the likelihood of a relatively (by your standard) similar item being listed later in another auction. 3.  If I don't know the market value of something I research it before placing my final bid(s).  How?  Google the name.  Search eBay for similar items.  Dig out your old Walthers catalogs and put cost of living inflation factor on it.  Leave a factor there for quality improvement in most new products over time.  Laser cut wood is definitely better than die cut cardboard. 4.  Keep a diary of other common bidder's 5 digit code and their number of positive feedbacks.  Best on a simple spreadsheet  that you can sort by date, number of feedbacks and most importantly the 5 digit code.  And bidder name if you can figure it out.  One way to do that which works with people who both sell and buy is to add identified sellers and their feedback quantity to your list with a column for "B" or "S" as the case might be. (again for sorting) I tried this for a while; but decided it was too much trouble. 5.  I sometimes bid early on stuff I really want/need (is there a difference?).  Other times I bid late.  I often sniper bid; but not usually on auctions where I have not placed a previous bid.  Bidding often gives me the opportunity to size up and test the competition. 6.  Knowing some others are doing the same to me I am purposely unpredictable in the way I bid.  7.  My eBay bidding/buying is largely in hobby and special interest areas with a substantial proportion of collectors as opposed to builders.  It's important to understand both types of mindset.  There's some of each in most of us.   The collectors tend to have more to spend than the builders.  Sometimes to extremes.  It's important to recognize when two deep pocket collectors are competing with each other. 8.  The auctions I bid on if well subscribed have a tendency toward leveling out at about 50-60% of the final winning bid at about 12 hours before auction end.  This is to allow a good margin for a winning final bid no matter how soon before the auction end you are going to do it.  I often play a game of unjaming the pack by throwing a 60-70% (of my uncomfortable point) to loosen things up.  Then I watch and try to psyche out the active bidders.  Sometimes I'll nudge them conservatively.  9. But when it comes to the couple of minutes I have a strategy.  Easiest is to throw a final sniper bid manually (I never use a 2nd party sniping site) at about 12-15 seconds.  I bid my uncomfortable amount because the odds are I'll lose some or win some but the average across a number of my winning auctions will be down in my comfort zone.  My bids are always in a mid range between the 5 or zero increments and may or may not contain a random number of cents between 11 and 91. (no pattern) 10.  Why the 10-15 seconds?  Because it gives me that earliest bid edge on the sniper who typically comes in at below 10 seconds.  If I have outbid him by a few cents or dollars he usually won't have time to place another higher bid.  .. Unless . He plays it a more complex way I have uses occasionally. 11.  Open two, 3 or even 4 windows to the same auction about 3-5 minutes before the auction end.  Make no bid entry on the first window.  This is just to watch the bids as they ratchet up in the last minute.  Remember, you have to have already placed an earlier bid on the auction to have the real time remaining function active on that first screen.  Enter successively higher bids on each additional screen with the final "place bid" button at the ready on each.  Now watch the auction on window #1 and click the buttons on 2, 3, and 4 at appropriate times; 4 being at about the 3-4 seconds remaining point.   Remember that bid 4 is in your uncomfortable zone and most other rational bidders, who think logically, won't go there.  But you can still lose to the nut or the amateur. 12.  About early bidding   I like being the first bidder.  It gives me a useless sense of "ownership" as the one who found the auction.  Any successive bids are either to test the other early bidders, some of whom may go all the way, or simply express myself.  I tend to like to throw a one increment bid about 12-24 hours before the end just to let other serious competitors know I'm still in the game.  Also gives feeling of fairness.  I really love it when I don't exceed the proxy bid by more than the ebay increment.  That way his auction amount doesn't turn red and he may not notice it.  And now I know what his max was and how he might pick the added penny amount.  No a big advantage, but every bit counts. 13.  Feedback -- I view the present eBay feedback system as useful to keep out the people who are incompetent sellers or just plain dishonest.  But in the hobby areas where I buy the sellers are virtually all OK.  So for my purposes feedback  is largely a waste of my time. I always give 5 star positives because of the punishment the eBay system meets out to the seller for anything less than perfect.  Just another example of the grade escalation problem that faces many areas of our society.   My problem is that I'd rather save my old arthritic fingers for useful pursuits like modelbuilding  (or this lengthy diatribe) rather than clicking the same button hundreds of times in the same session.   Yeah, yeah; some sellers depend on feedback to know if I was happy with the sale.  I'm almost always happy.  And if not I'll email the seller and tell him about what is usually a trivial packaging problem or unrecognized missing parts.   In 12 years of doing this I've only left one negative and not more than 5 neutral feedbacks.  If there is a real problem and an impasse the eBay problem resolution system works much better.  I've only done this 2-3 times; long ago. 14.  Shipping and handling costs:  Yes we're paying more.  eBay is taking a cut now and the shippers, especially the Post Office, which is still the best deal, has upped prices.  eBay's shipping calculator is flaky but most sellers will in the final  tally charge you their actual out of pocket cost.  I don't mind them throwing in the eBay profit percentage and delivery confirmation. Post Office insurance is a complete waste of money.  In 12 years the Post Office has never lost a shipment to me.  My biggest heartburn is with "brick and mortar sellers" who insist on charging $7.00 for UPS shipping an item that would safely fit in a USPS first class package at a total cost including the padded envelope of $2.50 including DC.  I do tend to be very skeptical of sellers with unusually high shipping costs, especially if their feedback numbers show that they are new to eBay (just the number, not the scores)  Newbies often still lack the skills to correct mistakes they make in entering their auctions and will fumble around for days and extra emails trying to straighten things out. 15.  Packaging:  Too many sellers don't know how to pack things.  They will put 3 layers of tape around a priority mail box (which it is designed by some pretty smart packaging engineers to not need tape) and then leave the contents loose inside to rattle around and self destruct. .....................Ed W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19354	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Gareth, I have approx 16 or more 8 Balls. They are more common than their 4-4-0 Belle counterpart, as far as I can tell. I have only three of the Belles. One is complete in kit form and never started. If you are trying to asses an items value, I understand it to be as follows: Not built(& NEVER STARTED)in kit form, with the box and instructions are almost always worth the most with these. If it has been started and any glue, paint or solder was applied, it usually sells for less than a well built finished model.  Therefore I rake them as follows: (all values are depending on the day and the interest of a particular bidder) kit (never started) - $100 - $120+ built kit (nicely done) - $60 - $80 partially built kit (with paint or other material applied) - $50 - $80 one in need of restoration - $30 - $40 parts engine $24 - $30 If by chance you come across one that has been built, with details & piping added, nicely (professionally or close to it) painted, lettered & weathered; They will sometimes sell for more than the not built kit. I have seen a couple sell for close to $150 this way and I sold one last year for $120. Right now, prices are way down on everything. The bigger Mantua Brass locos are barely selling for more than $150. They were fetching $300-$400 a little over a year ago. Just earlier this year, I purchased one Belle in kit form (never started) that I paid under ~$37 incl sh/h. That was a lucky day for me, but then again it just shows that it depends on the day and who is lurking.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6910790889/in/set-72157623238233266/ PLEASE NOTE this is Duplicate reply of the one posted in the Yardbirdtrains group.... LOL!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 11:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua 8 Ball   Hey Gents: I just came across a partially assembled in excellent condition apparently parts complete Mantua 8 Ball. I don't often see these on ebay and I thought some of you who follow Mantua sales on Ebay might have a better idea as to how uncommon it is.Please note I'm not using the word "rare" which seems to have lost all meaning... It's brass/cast and I'll add some pics later. The second question is and this has been discussed before is if I were to build it up, how far to go? It's a pretty plain model as it came from the factory and would benefit from some detailing. Now it's a sure thing that back in the day people "modded" these to more closely resemble Moguls of a particular Prototype they favoured. However if they are getting a lot less common then perhaps I will leave it alone.... Thoughts??? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19355	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hey Sean: That was extremely helpful, thanks! :) -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19356	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Close bids on eBay and other thoughts

Hey Ed: Nice diatribe. Insightful. My only comment would be as I think I did earlier to refer you to Masolow and the Hierarchy of needs. Or the simple version; "If you're not getting what you "need" you need to reassess what you need." -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "23weldon" <23.weldon@...> wrote: > > I guess the following is drifting OT; but I wanted to share with some folks who I have a lot of respect for ........... > This eBay stuff has been an interesting discussion. Here's some comments from my experience: ......Ed W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19357	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Brake equipment, better depiction of the Stephenson valve gear, and a new pilot.  Archer rivets on the tender.  Keep in mind that this has been on my to-do list since about 2005.    John B. Allyn From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 11:19:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Hi John: Does that mean you wouldn't touch the Chassis in terms of detailing? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > Being sheet brass, the superstructure is easy to detail and that's the route I would go. > John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19358	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Garth, That is definitely a gentleman's/mature way of dealing with such issues.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Denny and Anon; > > We used to have a "dibs" thread "sticky" on the Tyco forum where someone could say I found this on ebay and it's important to me to get. It politely asked the others to "stand down" as we used to say in my Service days.It worked pretty well for the most part. > > There were of course guys who have way more money than others and a very poor sense of community who will abuse that kind of civility. Most of us are too young for this but there used to be an expression "Anyone but Ismay" famously about the man (White Star Line Chairman) who climbed into a Titanic lifeboat while other more chivalrous men stood aside for woman and children. Me I'd have picked the little prick up and thrown him over! ;) In any case we can't do anything about that. In fact thanks to peple like Joel Osteen and Oprah most folks think the world is about them and only their wants regardless of anyone else. Covered elsewhere under the 7 deadly sins... ;) > > In any case we could give that a try here. Certainly in my situation I can't afford to get into bidding wars with people. So perhaps "in community" we could figure something out... > > Just some thoughts... > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19359	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Thanks Denny; -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Garth, > > That is definitely a gentleman's/mature way of dealing with such > issues. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19360	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Denny, Your comment is very gentlemanly and mature in itself, and I generally agree. However, there are those who are not only gentlemen (when they choose to be so) but also wealthy and powerful who say that being a gentleman is the last recourse to the middle class who have neither the wealth nor political power to be otherwise. And thus it appears that civilized behavior is the essentially the purview of us lowly HO folks of vintage interests. Art   In a message dated 5/14/2012 2:03:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cwrailman@... writes: Garth, That is definitely a gentleman's/mature way of dealing with such issues.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Denny and Anon; > > We used to have a "dibs" thread "sticky" on the Tyco forum where someone could say I found this on ebay and it's important to me to get. It politely asked the others to "stand down" as we used to say in my Service days.It worked pretty well for the most part. > > There were of course guys who have way more money than others and a very poor sense of community who will abuse that kind of civility. Most of us are too young for t his but there used to be an expression "Anyone but Ismay" famously about the man (White Star Line Chairman) who climbed into a Titanic lifeboat while other more chivalrous men stood aside for woman and children. Me I'd have picked the little prick up and thrown him over! ;) In any case we can't do anything about that. In fact thanks to peple like Joel Osteen and Oprah most folks think the world is about them and only their wants regardless of anyone else. Covered elsewhere under the 7 deadly sins... ;) > > In any case we could give that a try here. Certainly in my situation I can't afford to get into bidding wars with people. So perhaps "in community" we could figure something out... > > Just some thoughts... > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19361	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Looking for info

As I was looking through the eBay list I came across an item by a company I never heard of. Go to item # 261021483913 Jersey Central Lines Pullman Solid Wood by Perma Bilt. It shows the original box but only the top which only has the words Perma Bilt on top. It looks to be a full size standard type passenger car. Anyone ever hear about this company, where they were located and if they had other cars. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19362	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Verily thou hast spoken well! ;) -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19363	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hi Guys: I've added a couple pictures of my partially assembled 8 Ball under the folder name Vimy Locomotive works. Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19365	From: takefive247	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks

I have a partial time line of the Mantua/Tyco company in the files section of this group. In Bill G's Mantua. Mantua introduced the Tyco RTR train sets in 1952. There was a gap in the Mantua catalogs in the 60's and 70's but were back in 1978 and untill 2001. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > As near as I can determine, the switch from Mantua to Tyco may have been as early as 1957. I haven’t seen any Mantua catalogs later then 1955. Checking hoseeker.net there are catalogs listed as 1960 and 1962 but they contain nothing to support those dates. The covers do not look to be an advancement over their 1955 (which does have a cover date) and there are no diesels listed, not even the 1953 introduced Shark. Now everyone here that has looked has seen Sharks on eBay ever so often, often enough that they had to be a decent seller. And we know they went from Mantua to Tyco, from diecast to plastic and had at least two generations of power trucks. Ain’t no way they would not be listed in a Mantua catalog once they were introduced. I do not know when the first RTR Tyco model was introduced. Early fifties I believe. After the switch all of the models, RTR and kits, were Tyco. And they kept pretty close to the Mantua designs for a while until the bean counters got in absolute power. Then the changes (cheapening) started. Followed by the “silly” years. C-C trucked GG1’s indeed. A 2-8-0 pushed by a motorized tender. Somewhere along the way the change to horn-hooks came about too. I joined the Tyco group to try to dig up more data on the changes but it is a rather quiet bunch with not a lot of useful information so far. But I’ll keep digging. > > > > Actually I went searching hoseeker for information on the Talgo train, which was a Mantua product. Nothing dated but when I studied the two pages, the second showing the exploded view had a hand written date of 1 â€" 57. I then checked both the F9 and GP20 sheets and one their exploded view pages both say Tyco kits and the GP20 shows a date of 10-62 while the F9 shows 1-66. At that time the power truck used the gimble mounts but still had the earlier motor with the worm and gear drive, not the silly spur drive of the later POS models. > > > > That Pacific with the extruded passenger cars had to be great set. I never got too much into passenger trains (industrial and yard switching is my forte) but I am now (lightly) looking for some of those cars. They’ve become all most the de-facto cars to have behind a Penn Line Crusader. Makes a really good looking set. > > > > Sorry, can’t help but ramble when it comes to post war Mantua. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john.allyn@... > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:27 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks > > > > > > Tyco goes back to at least the mid-fifties. It was Mantua's RTR train set brand. > > My best Xmas present ever was a Tyco train set with an all-metal Pacific lettered (just as Jim remembers) Tyco with three extruded bodies/plastic ends streamline cars -- baggage (with working doors, natch), coach, and observation. Mantua couplers, of course. My younger sister dropped the engine to the floor, destroying the pilot, though she denies doing it to this day. > > John B. Allyn > > > > _____ > > From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:53:20 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RF 16 Mantua Sharks > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim Heckard wrote: > > > My painted Sharks came with Mantua loop couplers. If I remember > > right Tyco also produced them but they had stripes painted on the body > > and the word TYCO on the sides. > ----------------------- > There's a Tyco metal-bodied Shark sitting down in my basement; it's part of a train set that includes a couple of cars and a 4-wheel bobber caboose. It's in the original box, and all are equipped with Mantua loop couplers. The locomotive body is painted silver and the nose and side stripes are decals, and I think the TYCO name is too. My late father-in-law acquired the set several years ago and gave it to my son; I'm just storing if for him. > > The inventory program I use included the ability to link to pictures of the equipment. I'd post one to the files, but the ones I have were taken off the web for personal use only. > > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19366	From: Jay	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Close bids on eBay and other thoughts

Hi Ed W., That was a neat analysis of eBay bidding. Think I have either bid against or bought from you over the past dozen or so years that I also have been on eBay and it was cool to read that someone else has also recognized the different timing patterns and talks about "comfort" levels of bidding. I agree that the best edge that anyone can have is knowing as much or more than the average bidder about what you are pursuing - what it is, how scarce or common is it and what price they are bringing this week, month, year. I used to like getting to know my competition, and some did become aquaintences or friends, developing an informal first dibs system. I usually never get upset about losing to a deep pockets buyer, it happens, but the uninformed newbie can drive one to drink, whether bidder or seller! Generally, packing does seemt to be a bit better the last couple years, though I just received a cheese wedge-shaped, home made "box" with only tape ends from England: all 60+ parts intact and present inside fragile inner plastic boxes, so just might be some plain good luck. BTW, too bad feedback has been watered down, but still use it to communicate briefly with those I do not need a whole email exchange with. Good luck in the future, except if you are bidding against me, that is! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "23weldon" <23.weldon@...> wrote: > > I guess the following is drifting OT; but I wanted to share with some folks who I have a lot of respect for ........... > This eBay stuff has been an interesting discussion. Here's some comments from my experience: > > 1. I'm Ed Weldon. Ebay id: esweldon. 5 digit code w***d has been unchanged for at least a year or so. I have 2600+ feedbacks. Means I have some useful experience and am a bit of a spendthrift. Some of you might recognize me. You are entitled to what ever honest emotion that brings out. > > 2. The key to eBay bidding is to know the real market value of what you are bidding on, what percentage of that is your personal "uncomfortable point" and what's the likelihood of a relatively (by your standard) similar item being listed later in another auction. > > 3. If I don't know the market value of something I research it before placing my final bid(s). How? Google the name. Search eBay for similar items. Dig out your old Walthers catalogs and put cost of living inflation factor on it. Leave a factor there for quality improvement in most new products over time. Laser cut wood is definitely better than die cut cardboard. > > 4. Keep a diary of other common bidder's 5 digit code and their number of positive feedbacks. Best on a simple spreadsheet that you can sort by date, number of feedbacks and most importantly the 5 digit code. And bidder name if you can figure it out. One way to do that which works with people who both sell and buy is to add identified sellers and their feedback quantity to your list with a column for "B" or "S" as the case might be. (again for sorting) > > I tried this for a while; but decided it was too much trouble. > > 5. I sometimes bid early on stuff I really want/need (is there a difference?). Other times I bid late. I often sniper bid; but not usually on auctions where I have not placed a previous bid. Bidding often gives me the opportunity to size up and test the competition. > > 6. Knowing some others are doing the same to me I am purposely unpredictable in the way I bid. > > 7. My eBay bidding/buying is largely in hobby and special interest areas with a substantial proportion of collectors as opposed to builders. It's important to understand both types of mindset. There's some of each in most of us. The collectors tend to have more to spend than the builders. Sometimes to extremes. It's important to recognize when two deep pocket collectors are competing with each other. > > 8. The auctions I bid on if well subscribed have a tendency toward leveling out at about 50-60% of the final winning bid at about 12 hours before auction end. This is to allow a good margin for a winning final bid no matter how soon before the auction end you are going to do it. I often play a game of unjaming the pack by throwing a 60-70% (of my uncomfortable point) to loosen things up. Then I watch and try to psyche out the active bidders. Sometimes I'll nudge them conservatively. > > 9. But when it comes to the couple of minutes I have a strategy. Easiest is to throw a final sniper bid manually (I never use a 2nd party sniping site) at about 12-15 seconds. I bid my uncomfortable amount because the odds are I'll lose some or win some but the average across a number of my winning auctions will be down in my comfort zone. My bids are always in a mid range between the 5 or zero increments and may or may not contain a random number of cents between 11 and 91. (no pattern) > > 10. Why the 10-15 seconds? Because it gives me that earliest bid edge on the sniper who typically comes in at below 10 seconds. If I have outbid him by a few cents or dollars he usually won't have time to place another higher bid. .... Unless... He plays it a more complex way I have uses occasionally. > > 11. Open two, 3 or even 4 windows to the same auction about 3-5 minutes before the auction end. Make no bid entry on the first window. This is just to watch the bids as they ratchet up in the last minute. Remember, you have to have already placed an earlier bid on the auction to have the real time remaining function active on that first screen. Enter successively higher bids on each additional screen with the final "place bid" button at the ready on each. Now watch the auction on window #1 and click the buttons on 2, 3, and 4 at appropriate times; 4 being at about the 3-4 seconds remaining point. Remember that bid 4 is in your uncomfortable zone and most other rational bidders, who think logically, won't go there. But you can still lose to the nut or the amateur. > > 12. About early bidding.. I like being the first bidder. It gives me a useless sense of "ownership" as the one who found the auction. Any successive bids are either to test the other early bidders, some of whom may go all the way, or simply express myself. I tend to like to throw a one increment bid about 12-24 hours before the end just to let other serious competitors know I'm still in the game. Also gives feeling of fairness. I really love it when I don't exceed the proxy bid by more than the ebay increment. That way his auction amount doesn't turn red and he may not notice it. And now I know what his max was and how he might pick the added penny amount. No a big advantage, but every bit counts. > > 13. Feedback -- I view the present eBay feedback system as useful to keep out the people who are incompetent sellers or just plain dishonest. But in the hobby areas where I buy the sellers are virtually all OK. So for my purposes feedback is largely a waste of my time. I always give 5 star positives because of the punishment the eBay system meets out to the seller for anything less than perfect. Just another example of the grade escalation problem that faces many areas of our society. My problem is that I'd rather save my old arthritic fingers for useful pursuits like modelbuilding (or this lengthy diatribe) rather than clicking the same button hundreds of times in the same session. Yeah, yeah; some sellers depend on feedback to know if I was happy with the sale. I'm almost always happy. And if not I'll email the seller and tell him about what is usually a trivial packaging problem or unrecognized missing parts. In 12 years of doing this I've only left one negative and not more than 5 neutral feedbacks. If there is a real problem and an impasse the eBay problem resolution system works much better. I've only done this 2-3 times; long ago. > > 14. Shipping and handling costs: Yes we're paying more. eBay is taking a cut now and the shippers, especially the Post Office, which is still the best deal, has upped prices. eBay's shipping calculator is flaky but most sellers will in the final tally charge you their actual out of pocket cost. I don't mind them throwing in the eBay profit percentage and delivery confirmation. Post Office insurance is a complete waste of money. In 12 years the Post Office has never lost a shipment to me. My biggest heartburn is with "brick and mortar sellers" who insist on charging $7.00 for UPS shipping an item that would safely fit in a USPS first class package at a total cost including the padded envelope of $2.50 including DC. I do tend to be very skeptical of sellers with unusually high shipping costs, especially if their feedback numbers show that they are new to eBay (just the number, not the scores) Newbies often still lack the skills to correct mistakes they make in entering their auctions and will fumble around for days and extra emails trying to straighten things out. > > 15. Packaging: Too many sellers don't know how to pack things. They will put 3 layers of tape around a priority mail box (which it is designed by some pretty smart packaging engineers to not need tape) and then leave the contents loose inside to rattle around and self destruct. .....................Ed W >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19367	From: Jay	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Looks like fun, Gareth - always liked the Eight-Ball's lines and it seems many of the prototypes were around for a long time until the end of steam (recently read an old Railroad Magazine article on Moguls published in the early 1960's). Many remained on backwoods short lines. Maybe that's why Sean here has found more that the companion, Mantua's Belle of the 80's, as with its angular peaked roof, it looks more appropriate for the 1800's period modeler. Do you have most of the other parts as well? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Gents: > > I just came across a partially assembled in excellent condition apparently parts complete Mantua 8 Ball. > > I don't often see these on ebay and I thought some of you who follow Mantua sales on Ebay might have a better idea as to how uncommon it is.Please note I'm not using the word "rare" which seems to have lost all meaning... > > It's brass/cast and I'll add some pics later. > > The second question is and this has been discussed before is if I were to build it up, how far to go? It's a pretty plain model as it came from the factory and would benefit from some detailing. Now it's a sure thing that back in the day people "modded" these to more closely resemble Moguls of a particular Prototype they favoured. However if they are getting a lot less common then perhaps I will leave it alone.... > > Thoughts??? > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19368	From: rcjge	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hi Jay: I think I know the article you mean. Moguls were virtually the last steam used by The CNR in Canada. They and I crossed paths somewhere in late 1959 so they are kinda special to me. I have modt of the bits, if you're referring to the valve gear etc. It's in the tube in the photo. The tender trucks don't match so I'll have to figure whats original or suits whatever Canadian prototype I make this look like. I was thinking of using the tender with my early Mantua Camelback though I'd like to find a slope back original one for it from it's same Gen.... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Looks like fun, Gareth - always liked the Eight-Ball's lines and it seems many of the prototypes were around for a long time until the end of steam (recently read an old Railroad Magazine article on Moguls published in the early 1960's). Many remained on backwoods short lines. Maybe that's why Sean here has found more that the companion, Mantua's Belle of the 80's, as with its angular peaked roof, it looks more appropriate for the 1800's period modeler. Do you have most of the other parts as well? W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@> wrote: > > > > Hey Gents: > > > > I just came across a partially assembled in excellent condition apparently parts complete Mantua 8 Ball. > > > > I don't often see these on ebay and I thought some of you who follow Mantua sales on Ebay might have a better idea as to how uncommon it is.Please note I'm not using the word "rare" which seems to have lost all meaning... > > > > It's brass/cast and I'll add some pics later. > > > > The second question is and this has been discussed before is if I were to build it up, how far to go? It's a pretty plain model as it came from the factory and would benefit from some detailing. Now it's a sure thing that back in the day people "modded" these to more closely resemble Moguls of a particular Prototype they favoured. However if they are getting a lot less common then perhaps I will leave it alone.... > > > > Thoughts??? > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19369	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification

Attachments : HO Kemtron 797 Handrail Stanchions.JPG HO Kemtron 797 Handrail Stanchions a.JPG HO Kemtron 783 Handrail Stanchions.JPG HO Kemtron 783 Handrail Stanchions a.JPG Hey guys, My Kemtron catalog does not list any diesel stanchions and I was wondering if anyone could identify these for me: HO Kemtron # 797 Handrail Stanchions & HO Kemtron # 783 Handrail Stanchions Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19370	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Looks like you need a new tender truck, but otherwise it looks pretty good there Gareth.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 3:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Hi Guys: I've added a couple pictures of my partially assembled 8 Ball under the folder name Vimy Locomotive works. Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19371	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Sean: Do you know which truck belongs to it? -Gareth On 15 May 2012 08:37, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Looks like you need a new tender truck, but otherwise it looks pretty good there Gareth.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19372	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification [4 Attachments]

Kemtron had a lost wax brass HO kit for a VO-1000 circa 1954.  Perhaps these are connected. John B. Allyn From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:17:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification [4 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey guys, My Kemtron catalog does not list any diesel stanchions and I was wondering if anyone could identify these for me: HO Kemtron # 797 Handrail Stanchions & HO Kemtron # 783 Handrail Stanchions Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19373	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

The archbar, per photos at HO Seeker.  Bitter Creek Models (http://bittercreekmodels.com/page4.html) has some good matches.  John B. Allyn From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:32:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Sean: Do you know which truck belongs to it? -Gareth On 15 May 2012 08:37, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Looks like you need a new tender truck, but otherwise it looks pretty good there Gareth.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19374	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hi John: Hopefully I can find the right original Mantua Truck "Barring" that I'll be trying to make my Mogul look appropriate to the 1930-50's... Thank, Gareth On 15 May 2012 09:45, <john.allyn@...> wrote:   The archbar, per photos at HO Seeker.  Bitter Creek Models (http://bittercreekmodels.com/page4.html) has some good matches.  John B. Allyn From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:32:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Sean: Do you know which truck belongs to it? -Gareth On 15 May 2012 08:37, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Looks like you need a new tender truck, but otherwise it looks pretty good there Gareth.   Sean -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19375	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

It is the Archbar Gareth   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "john.allyn@..." <john.allyn@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   The archbar, per photos at HO Seeker.  Bitter Creek Models (http://bittercreekmodels.com/page4.html) has some good matches.  John B. Allyn From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:32:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Sean: Do you know which truck belongs to it? -Gareth On 15 May 2012 08:37, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Looks like you need a new tender truck, but otherwise it looks pretty good there Gareth.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19376	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Gareth, If you would like to see an 8-Ball that has been completely rebuilt and redetailed look in the PHOTOS section under the album "Cinder Valley". The first photo is an 8-Ball that I rebuilt. Appearance changes include: Scratchbuilt pilot, extra sand dome, Cal-Scale headlight and airpump, raised cab roof vent and PFM tender. Mechanical changes include: Sagami can motor, KTM idler gearbox, and RP-25 drivers and wheels. Electronic changes include: Tsunami sound decoder and speaker. This locomotive runs every day on my layout and is one of the best running locos I own. It is my favorite. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi John: > > Hopefully I can find the right original Mantua Truck "Barring" that I'll be > trying to make my Mogul look appropriate to the 1930-50's... > > Thank, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19377	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hey Bill: That looks great! Are you operating her in a Switching role is that why the step pilot and the extra sand dome? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19378	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Looks like you filled in one of the cab windows -- looks good. John B. Allyn From: "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:13:47 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Gareth, If you would like to see an 8-Ball that has been completely rebuilt and redetailed look in the PHOTOS section under the album "Cinder Valley". The first photo is an 8-Ball that I rebuilt. Appearance changes include: Scratchbuilt pilot, extra sand dome, Cal-Scale headlight and airpump, raised cab roof vent and PFM tender. Mechanical changes include: Sagami can motor, KTM idler gearbox, and RP-25 drivers and wheels. Electronic changes include: Tsunami sound decoder and speaker. This locomotive runs every day on my layout and is one of the best running locos I own. It is my favorite. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi John: > > Hopefully I can find the right original Mantua Truck "Barring" that I'll be > trying to make my Mogul look appropriate to the 1930-50's... > > Thank, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19379	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification [4 Attachments]

On 5/15/2012 7:17 AM, Sean Naylor wrote: Hey guys, My Kemtron catalog does not list any diesel stanchions and I was wondering if anyone could identify these for me: HO Kemtron # 797 Handrail Stanchions & HO Kemtron # 783 Handrail Stanchions Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! According to Walthers' 1976 catalog,  797 is a set for an Athearn U=33-C Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19380	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball

Attachments : IMG_7923_1.JPG IMG_7922_1.JPG IMG_7920_1.JPG These are pictures of my one Mantua 8 ball. This was bought about 40 years ago and was one of my first early vintage engines. The engine came unpainted and slightly damaged but with some of the detail already on the engine. I did put railing and hand rails on the tender. Have never checked to see if it is the right tender. Easy to check but to lazy at that time and then forgot about it. I painted and decalled it and put it on the shelf. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19381	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Jim: Your boiler looks different than mine. Mine is more tapered.... Variations? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19382	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification

Thanks Don! That leaves me with only the # 783! Thanks!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Kemtron Handrail Stanchion identification   On 5/15/2012 7:17 AM, Sean Naylor wrote: Hey guys, My Kemtron catalog does not list any diesel stanchions and I was wondering if anyone could identify these for me: HO Kemtron # 797 Handrail Stanchions & HO Kemtron # 783 Handrail Stanchions Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! According to Walthers' 1976 catalog,  797 is a set for an Athearn U=33-C Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19383	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Could be a difference between pre and post WWll.   If it weren’t for the evenly spaced drivers I could think of several applications for this engine. I know that is changeable, albeit with a fair amount of work but then it wouldn’t really be a Mantua 8 Ball anymore. And what with Bachmann’s new Mogul, why bother?   That said, if I get through several of my current projects I’ll likely start looking for a restorable model.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Jim: Your boiler looks different than mine. Mine is more tapered.... Variations? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19384	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hi John: Any idea which is which? The taper boiler seems more old fashioned to me than the symmetrical but I'm still getting my feet wet with Steamers... What does the evenly space drivers suggest to you? Best, Gareth On 15 May 2012 15:45, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Could be a difference between pre and post WWll.   If it weren’t for the evenly spaced drivers I could think of several applications for this engine. I know that is changeable, albeit with a fair amount of work but then it wouldn’t really be a Mantua 8 Ball anymore. And what with Bachmann’s new Mogul, why bother?   That said, if I get through several of my current projects I’ll likely start looking for a restorable model.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Jim: Your boiler looks different than mine. Mine is more tapered.... Variations? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12 -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19385	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

John & Gareth --   The tapered boiler could be a Belle boiler.  They were interchangeable. John B. Allyn From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:49:50 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   Hi John: Any idea which is which? The taper boiler seems more old fashioned to me than the symmetrical but I'm still getting my feet wet with Steamers... What does the evenly space drivers suggest to you? Best, Gareth On 15 May 2012 15:45, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Could be a difference between pre and post WWll.   If it weren’t for the evenly spaced drivers I could think of several applications for this engine. I know that is changeable, albeit with a fair amount of work but then it wouldn’t really be a Mantua 8 Ball anymore. And what with Bachmann’s new Mogul, why bother?   That said, if I get through several of my current projects I’ll likely start looking for a restorable model.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Jim: Your boiler looks different than mine. Mine is more tapered.... Variations? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12 -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19386	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

John: Any way to tell from my Pics in my folder Vimy... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/1569512916/view -Gareth On 15 May 2012 16:00, <john.allyn@...> wrote:   John & Gareth --   The tapered boiler could be a Belle boiler.  They were interchangeable. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19387	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

I also have a few 8 Balls. One of them has me puzzled. It has a brass channel frame with no pilot. I was not aware they ever came with a brass frame. It needs a pilot, pilot truck and tender to complete it. The truck and tender will be a challenge to find. I have another one with a broken frame. I am looking for a replacement frame so I can get that one back together. These Moguls are among my all-time favorites. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19388	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Let me check when I get home tonight. John B. Allyn From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:06:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   John: Any way to tell from my Pics in my folder Vimy... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/1569512916/view -Gareth On 15 May 2012 16:00, <john.allyn@...> wrote:   John & Gareth --   The tapered boiler could be a Belle boiler.  They were interchangeable. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19389	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Gareth,   That is only a possibility and it may be totally not true. Frankly I thought all 8 Balls had straight boilers but I am far from an expert on Mantua’s brass locos. My “expertise”, if one cares to call it that, is with the diecast locos up until Tyco Industries took over. And I still have several unanswered questions with that.   I’m rather certain there were Moguls with equal spaced drivers but, as the railroads in which I have more than passing interest didn’t seem to have them, I can’t recall just who may have. SP maybe? Thing is with steam there were many more builders, especially back in new Mogul production days, and a lot of customization for individual railroads then with diesels. And when a wheel arrangement was in favor, there could be orders spread over several years, even from the same customer. The CNW class D Atlantics for example. Most were built with Stephenson inside valve gear with piston valves that required the very slanted cylinders as on most of their Ten Wheelers. But there was at least one order, possibly the last one, that had normal cylinders with Walschaerts valve gear  (Hmmm, maybe Baker, can’t recall offhand). They still class D’s on the CNW. But that change made for a much different appearing loco even though the basic outline, boiler, driver spacing and diameter etc. remained the same.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:50 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Hi John: Any idea which is which? The taper boiler seems more old fashioned to me than the symmetrical but I'm still getting my feet wet with Steamers... What does the evenly space drivers suggest to you? Best, Gareth On 15 May 2012 15:45, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Could be a difference between pre and post WWll.   If it weren’t for the evenly spaced drivers I could think of several applications for this engine. I know that is changeable, albeit with a fair amount of work but then it wouldn’t really be a Mantua 8 Ball anymore. And what with Bachmann’s new Mogul, why bother?   That said, if I get through several of my current projects I’ll likely start looking for a restorable model.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Jim: Your boiler looks different than mine. Mine is more tapered.... Variations? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12 -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19390	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

Go to HO seeker under Literature then to Mantua the 1942 Handbook. Go into the pages listed and the 3rd Eight Ball listing there is a real nice picture ( side view ) of the 8 Ball with a straight boiler. Anyone having Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Vol II Page 43 has a Mantua Mogul picture with straight Boiler. Compare these to pictures I sent which has a straight boiler. I have this Mantua engine made 1940 - 1955. I'll have to check later dates to see if any have a more tapered boiler after I eat. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19391	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hey John: For certain the CNR (Canadian National ) had equidistant drivers on several Mogul classes. As you can see in my pics the boiler is brass sheet. -Gareth On 15 May 2012 16:15, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Gareth,   That is only a possibility and it may be totally not true. Frankly I thought all 8 Balls had straight boilers but I am far from an expert on Mantua’s brass locos. My “expertise”, if one cares to call it that, is with the diecast locos up until Tyco Industries took over. And I still have several unanswered questions with that.   I’m rather certain there were Moguls with equal spaced drivers but, as the railroads in which I have more than passing interest didn’t seem to have them, I can’t recall just who may have. SP maybe? Thing is with steam there were many more builders, especially back in new Mogul production days, and a lot of customization for individual railroads then with diesels. And when a wheel arrangement was in favor, there could be orders spread over several years, even from the same customer. The CNW class D Atlantics for example. Most were built with Stephenson inside valve gear with piston valves that required the very slanted cylinders as on most of their Ten Wheelers. But there was at least one order, possibly the last one, that had normal cylinders with Walschaerts valve gear  (Hmmm, maybe Baker, can’t recall offhand). They still class D’s on the CNW. But that change made for a much different appearing loco even though the basic outline, boiler, driver spacing and diameter etc. remained the same.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:50 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Hi John: Any idea which is which? The taper boiler seems more old fashioned to me than the symmetrical but I'm still getting my feet wet with Steamers... What does the evenly space drivers suggest to you? Best, Gareth On 15 May 2012 15:45, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Could be a difference between pre and post WWll.   If it weren’t for the evenly spaced drivers I could think of several applications for this engine. I know that is changeable, albeit with a fair amount of work but then it wouldn’t really be a Mantua 8 Ball anymore. And what with Bachmann’s new Mogul, why bother?   That said, if I get through several of my current projects I’ll likely start looking for a restorable model.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Jim: Your boiler looks different than mine. Mine is more tapered.... Variations? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12 -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12 -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19392	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

Hey Jim: Yeah I'd like to unearth this mystery.... I can't find a CNR/CPR unit that matches up so I may be looking for a home for it as I have too many projects, unless maybe I can swap boilers with Sean who favours the "Belle" over the later 8 Ball.... he see this and I'll wait for his response.... -Gareth On 15 May 2012 16:22, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Go to HO seeker under Literature then to Mantua the 1942 Handbook. Go into the pages listed and the 3rd Eight Ball listing there is a real nice picture ( side view ) of the 8 Ball with a straight boiler. Anyone having Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Vol II Page 43 has a Mantua Mogul picture with straight Boiler. Compare these to pictures I sent which has a straight boiler. I have this Mantua engine made 1940 - 1955. I'll have to check later dates to see if any have a more tapered boiler after I eat. Jim H -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19393	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Gareth, She gets used in all types of service, switching, light peddler freights, and sometimes a log train. Most of my steam engines were equipped with dual sand domes as a "family" trait. My railroad is a mountain railroad with steep grades so extra sand is needed. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Bill: > > That looks great! Are you operating her in a Switching role is that why the > step pilot and the extra sand dome? > > -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19394	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

John, A prior owner filled in the cab window. I liked it so I left it that way. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Looks like you filled in one of the cab windows -- looks good. > > > John B. Allyn >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19395	From: ho_in_hancock	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Hello, Guys: Allow me to join in the discussion about Mantua's brass-boilered locomotives: I too, have owned more than one Mantua 8 Ball Mogul. Two to be precise. They both had slighly tapered boilers that appear to be identical to Mantua's "Belle" boiler. I have posted some photos of the one I kept under "Ken Robbins vintage items." The boiler taper can be clearly seen. This one sounds like a washing machine filled with bolts and draws more than one amp when running, so someday, it will get a new can motor - at least! Ken Robbins Hancock, NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19396	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

This may be kin to standing up in church and announcing there is no God but here goes. I have been following the discussion on the Mantua 8 Ball locomotives and checked out a few and I am wondering why you folks spend so much time on getting these running when there are so many similar brass models that can be made to operate much better for the same or slightly more money?  Many are sold as basket cases.  If you check out the projects page on my WEB site you will see some brass models under the Future Projects" heading that were purchased for about $50 and one was gotten for $35 at a swap meet. With a NWSL gearbox and $5 flat can motor and some fecent paint these will not only look good but will operate much better that the Mantua mechanism.  I'm just wondering that's all. I consider the time I spend on the hobby as valuable as the money I spend so I also consider the resale value of the model once I have reworked it.   Let the stone throwing begin. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: > > I also have a few 8 Balls. One of them has me puzzled. It has a > brass channel frame with no pilot. I was not aware they ever came > with a brass frame. It needs a pilot, pilot truck and tender to > complete it. The truck and tender will be a challenge to find. I > have another one with a broken frame. I am looking for a replacement > frame so I can get that one back together. > > These Moguls are among my all-time favorites. > > Al Askerberg >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19397	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

Some of us salvage and rebuild old models for the satisfaction of the achievement.  Some of us have much more time than money so the time is not considered a factor for us.  The end dollar value is not the consideration.  I have several that I am very happy with because they were junk before and they are great looking and great running models that represent my interests both when I built them and now many years later. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 5/15/2012 8:47 PM, cwrailman wrote:   This may be kin to standing up in church and announcing there is no God but here goes. I have been following the discussion on the Mantua 8 Ball locomotives and checked out a few and I am wondering why you folks spend so much time on getting these running when there are so many similar brass models that can be made to operate much better for the same or slightly more money?  Many are sold as basket cases.  If you check out the projects page on my WEB site you will see some brass models under the Future Projects" heading that were purchased for about $50 and one was gotten for $35 at a swap meet. With a NWSL gearbox and $5 flat can motor and some fecent paint these will not only look good but will operate much better that the Mantua mechanism.  I'm just wondering that's all. I consider the time I spend on the hobby as valuable as the money I spend so I also consider the resale value of the model once I have reworked it.   Let the stone throwing begin. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: > > I also have a few 8 Balls. One of them has me puzzled. It has a > brass channel frame with no pilot. I was not aware they ever came > with a brass frame. It needs a pilot, pilot truck and tender to > complete it. The truck and tender will be a challenge to find. I > have another one with a broken frame. I am looking for a replacement > frame so I can get that one back together. > > These Moguls are among my all-time favorites. > > Al Askerberg >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19398	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

Ken,   That sure looks like a Belle boiler to me. Nice model.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ho_in_hancock Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball     Hello, Guys: Allow me to join in the discussion about Mantua's brass-boilered locomotives: I too, have owned more than one Mantua 8 Ball Mogul. Two to be precise. They both had slighly tapered boilers that appear to be identical to Mantua's "Belle" boiler. I have posted some photos of the one I kept under "Ken Robbins vintage items." The boiler taper can be clearly seen. This one sounds like a washing machine filled with bolts and draws more than one amp when running, so someday, it will get a new can motor - at least! Ken Robbins Hancock, NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19399	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

CWRAILMAN (Denny)                 To each his own. That's what makes HO model railroading so great. I happen to collect vintage items and if they need work I try to repair to as close as original as possible. You have chosen a different road and that's great. You only talked about Mantua mechanisms  but consider the Mantua post war Pacific and Atlantic that had the motor,gear box and main driver all as one piece that dropped  into a slot in the frame for reliability. And outside of Mantua.  I think I can match your different gear box and can motor to my Varney post war Super engines with the V-2 motor ( Consolidation, Pacific and Mikado.)  George Stock engines were impressive and my Winton 2-6-6-6 Allegheny with the normal O gauge motor in it, both made by master machinist.  I could name more out of my 260 different steam engines in my vintage collection. I won't throw rocks because I spend enjoyable hours like you even rebuilding basket cases to original. Yes I paint and decal some of them and add  coal to look good. And remember these engine are 67 to 74 years old.                                                                                     Jim H On 5/15/2012 8:47 PM, cwrailman wrote:   This may be kin to standing up in church and announcing there is no God but here goes. I have been following the discussion on the Mantua 8 Ball locomotives and checked out a few and I am wondering why you folks spend so much time on getting these running when there are so many similar brass models that can be made to operate much better for the same or slightly more money?  Many are sold as basket cases.  If you check out the projects page on my WEB site you will see some brass models under the Future Projects" heading that were purchased for about $50 and one was gotten for $35 at a swap meet. With a NWSL gearbox and $5 flat can motor and some fecent paint these will not only look good but will operate much better that the Mantua mechanism.  I'm just wondering that's all. I consider the time I spend on the hobby as valuable as the money I spend so I also consider the resale value of the model once I have reworked it.   Let the stone throwing begin. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: > > I also have a few 8 Balls. One of them has me puzzled. It has a > brass channel frame with no pilot. I was not aware they ever came > with a brass frame. It needs a pilot, pilot truck and tender to > complete it. The truck and tender will be a challenge to find. I > have another one with a broken frame. I am looking for a replacement > frame so I can get that one back together. > > These Moguls are among my all-time favorites. > > Al Askerberg >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19400	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

I have a 8-Ball boiler for my 4-4-0 so I can't answer.  But I'm pretty sure that the Belle had a tapered boiler. John B. Allyn 3602 Hoods Hill Road Nashville TN 37215 615-298-2873 (H) 615-973-4280 (C) 615-297-3870 (Fax) From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:06:43 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   John: Any way to tell from my Pics in my folder Vimy... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/1569512916/view -Gareth On 15 May 2012 16:00, <john.allyn@...> wrote:   John & Gareth --   The tapered boiler could be a Belle boiler.  They were interchangeable. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19401	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball

I do too. John B. Allyn From: "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:41:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball   John, A prior owner filled in the cab window. I liked it so I left it that way. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Looks like you filled in one of the cab windows -- looks good. > > > John B. Allyn >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19402	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

Enjoy Denny! ;) -Gareth On 15 May 2012 20:47, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   This may be kin to standing up in church and announcing there is no God but here goes. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19403	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

Hi Denny and Jim, I think we all agree there is enough room for all flavors of us modelers in this hobby.  My enjoyment of vintage is to get it looking decent as one can if the original has "good bones" and upgrade to some degree.  For example, I put Kadee couplers and better trucks on some older Varney and Mantua cars.  I also add brake detail to many of my vintage HO cars, but the OLD Athearn/Globe/Varney stamped metal cars don't really lend themselves to getting that level of detail.  I fix them up and run them anyway.  As to locomotives, I do like many of the old vintage ones, but I won't hesitate to re-motor and/or re-gear them and install DCC Decoders, I really don't want any (maybe very few) shelf queens.  These days it is pretty tough to find brass for $50, even junkers seem to be topping $100 or more.   I have several of the old Mantua Sharknose A Units, one with a double motor in it!  I love those things, but I won't be shelling out $100 or more for a Hobbytown drive on eBay for them.  They may end up as shelf queens, because I don't believe those motors can be "amp'd" down to handle a DCC decoder properly.  I am almost afraid to take those motors apart to see if new rare earth magnets can be installed.  They are some really interesting integrated motor/mechanism assemblies. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:38:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball   CWRAILMAN (Denny)                 To each his own. That's what makes HO model railroading so great. I happen to collect vintage items and if they need work I try to repair to as close as original as possible. You have chosen a different road and that's great. You only talked about Mantua mechanisms  but consider the Mantua post war Pacific and Atlantic that had the motor,gear box and main driver all as one piece that dropped  into a slot in the frame for reliability. And outside of Mantua.  I think I can match your different gear box and can motor to my Varney post war Super engines with the V-2 motor ( Consolidation, Pacific and Mikado.)  George Stock engines were impressive and my Winton 2-6-6-6 Allegheny with the normal O gauge motor in it, both made by master machinist.  I could name more out of my 260 different steam engines in my vintage collection. I won't throw rocks because I spend enjoyable hours like you even rebuilding basket cases to original. Yes I paint and decal some of them and add  coal to look good. And remember these engine are 67 to 74 years old.                                                                                     Jim H On 5/15/2012 8:47 PM, cwrailman wrote:   This may be kin to standing up in church and announcing there is no God but here goes. I have been following the discussion on the Mantua 8 Ball locomotives and checked out a few and I am wondering why you folks spend so much time on getting these running when there are so many similar brass models that can be made to operate much better for the same or slightly more money?  Many are sold as basket cases.  If you check out the projects page on my WEB site you will see some brass models under the Future Projects" heading that were purchased for about $50 and one was gotten for $35 at a swap meet. With a NWSL gearbox and $5 flat can motor and some fecent paint these will not only look good but will operate much better that the Mantua mechanism.  I'm just wondering that's all. I consider the time I spend on the hobby as valuable as the money I spend so I also consider the resale value of the model once I have reworked it.   Let the stone throwing begin. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: > > I also have a few 8 Balls. One of them has me puzzled. It has a > brass channel frame with no pilot. I was not aware they ever came > with a brass frame. It needs a pilot, pilot truck and tender to > complete it. The truck and tender will be a challenge to find. I > have another one with a broken frame. I am looking for a replacement > frame so I can get that one back together. > > These Moguls are among my all-time favorites. > > Al Askerberg >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19404	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

It's easy to lose by $.01 ... I've had it done a couple of times. I.E. - a item is selling at $8.00. The increment is $.50. You bid $10.01. The item is now at $8.50 - up by .50 over the last bidder and you are now the top bidder. I come along and bid $10.00 - more than the minimum .50 but less that your bid of $10.01. You are now the top bidder at $10.01. If no other bids come along, you won for $10.01 - .01 more that my bid. That's how you lose an auction by .01!     Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid   I understood what you were saying and also how you won it. I was throwing out the occurrence I had from the other side and hoping maybe someone could tell me how it could happen. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C.,      My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid.                                                           Jim H On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid   I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19405	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

Vic, You wrote, "I have several of the old Mantua Sharknose A Units, one with a double motor in it!  I love those things, but I won't be shelling out $100 or more for a Hobbytown drive on eBay for them.  They may end up as shelf queens, because I don't believe those motors can be "amp'd" down to handle a DCC decoder properly. " The so-called Large Scale decoders can handle lots of amps. I would think there was enough room for them in the Sharknose shells too. Just a thought! Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19406	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

Attachments : Mystery 2-10-2 Varney.JPG Hi guys! I have another mystery to solve... Last night I stole this lot which contains a mystery loco which seems to comprise a Varney 2-10-2 chassis I have never seen before. Rivarossi Trains (290711740848) I attached a picture of the Varney in question. Any ideas as to the authenticity of this chassis and what boiler is this on top of it? I have never seen one like it either.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19407	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

To me it looks like it might be a Varney 4-8-2 boiler over a PennLine/Bowser 2-10-2 chassis -- but then the flanges look very large to be Bowser. That's only a guess based on the one photo. And I am assuming the boiler is cast bronze or brass -- that would ensure it's a Varney superstructure. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi guys! > > I have another mystery to solve... > > Last night I stole this lot which contains a mystery loco which seems to comprise a Varney 2-10-2 chassis I have never seen before. > > Rivarossi Trains(290711740848) > > I attached a picture of the Varney in question. Any ideas as to the authenticity of this chassis and what boiler is this on top of it? I have never seen one like it either.� > � > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19408	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball

Thanks for that idea Walter.  I may look around to see what decoder would need to be used after I do a good tune up on these and measure the current draw. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 10:37:07 -0400 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Why a Mantua 8 Ball   Vic, You wrote, "I have several of the old Mantua Sharknose A Units, one with a double motor in it!  I love those things, but I won't be shelling out $100 or more for a Hobbytown drive on eBay for them.  They may end up as shelf queens, because I don't believe those motors can be "amp'd" down to handle a DCC decoder properly. " The so-called Large Scale decoders can handle lots of amps. I would think there was enough room for them in the Sharknose shells too. Just a thought! Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19409	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

Hi All, My PennLine/Bowser 2-10-2 has a blind center drive, like the prototype, but this could have been changed by the builder. Also, the brass drivers would tend to date it pre-Bowser production, perhaps PennLine mechanism with "patched in" drivers? A Pittman motor would help to both date and focus origin. In the '40s and '50s building a stock kit or buying a RTR or even a "Screwdriver" kit was still widely considered to be "Toy Train" railroading, not real MODEL railroading. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 5/16/12, ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > To me it looks like it might be a Varney 4-8-2 boiler over a PennLine/Bowser > 2-10-2 chassis -- but then the flanges look very large to be Bowser. That's > only a guess based on the one photo. And I am assuming the boiler is cast > bronze or brass -- that would ensure it's a Varney superstructure. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: >> >> Hi guys! >> >> I have another mystery to solve... >> >> Last night I stole this lot which contains a mystery loco which seems to >> comprise a Varney 2-10-2 chassis I have never seen before. >> >> Rivarossi Trains(290711740848) >> >> I attached a picture of the Varney in question. Any ideas as to the >> authenticity of this chassis and what boiler is this on top of it? I have >> never seen one like it either.� >> � >> Sean >> >> >> "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario >> Andretti! >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19410	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

Sean, The drivers, trailing truck and cylinder block all appear to be Varney, but I don't recall ever seeing a Varney boiler of this vintage with a separate cab. I have a feeling it might be a home-built kitbash. Bill DeFoe > >> Hi guys! > >> > >> I have another mystery to solve... > >> > >> Last night I stole this lot which contains a mystery loco which seems to > >> comprise a Varney 2-10-2 chassis I have never seen before. > >> > >> Rivarossi Trains(290711740848) > >> > >> I attached a picture of the Varney in question. Any ideas as to the > >> authenticity of this chassis and what boiler is this on top of it? I have > >> never seen one like it either.� > >> � > >> Sean > >> > >> > >> "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > >> Andretti! > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19411	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

Sean, The more I think of it, the more I believe it is home-made. Back in the early fifties Varney published their "1001 Parts Catalog" just for those modelbuilders desiring to build something of their own. Also did you notice the dual cross compound air compressors under the left running board. Not very many railroads built their locomotives with this feature. The Missouri Pacific is the only one I can think of, and the MoPac had three different classes of 2-10-2s. The big question is, "was the boiler cast special for this model or will careful examination determine that it is spliced together from two boilers?" Very interesting piece. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > The drivers, trailing truck and cylinder block all appear to be Varney, but I don't recall ever seeing a Varney boiler of this vintage with a separate cab. I have a feeling it might be a home-built kitbash. > > Bill DeFoe > > > > > > >> Hi guys! > > >> > > >> I have another mystery to solve... > > >> > > >> Last night I stole this lot which contains a mystery loco which seems to > > >> comprise a Varney 2-10-2 chassis I have never seen before. > > >> > > >> Rivarossi Trains(290711740848) > > >> > > >> I attached a picture of the Varney in question. Any ideas as to the > > >> authenticity of this chassis and what boiler is this on top of it? I have > > >> never seen one like it either.� > > >> � > > >> Sean > > >> > > >> > > >> "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > > >> Andretti! > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19412	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

I’m almost sorry I started all this. What you described below is not what happens. I leave a max bid of say $20.00 and I am the current high bidder at $14.50. Later, someone manages to win the auction with a bid of $20.01. Obviously, they placed their bid after me. So, how can they win by $.01 if the bid increment is supposed to be $.50? They should have to win with a bid of at least $20.50. Cabish?   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of My-Yahoo-Groups Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:34 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid     It's easy to lose by $.01 ... I've had it done a couple of times. I.E. - a item is selling at $8.00. The increment is $.50. You bid $10.01. The item is now at $8.50 - up by .50 over the last bidder and you are now the top bidder. I come along and bid $10.00 - more than the minimum .50 but less that your bid of $10.01. You are now the top bidder at $10.01. If no other bids come along, you won for $10.01 - .01 more that my bid. That's how you lose an auction by .01!     Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid     I understood what you were saying and also how you won it. I was throwing out the occurrence I had from the other side and hoping maybe someone could tell me how it could happen. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C.,      My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid.                                                           Jim H On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid   I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19413	From: don_dellmann	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

What Steve posted is not clear. In your example, you had a maximum bid of $ 20.00, BUT you said the current auction was at $ 14.50. The new bidder only had to be at least 50 cents over the $ 14.50, not the $ 20.00, so his bid of $ 20.01 was accepted. The "bid increment" does NOT mean bids must be in multiples of 50 cents. It only means the new bid be AT LEAST 50 cents over the CURRENT high bid. Thus when you were outbid at $ 20.01, if you still wanted it you would have had to enter a new bid of at least $ 20.51. I hope that explains it, and lets let this thread die. Don listowner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Carbo" <flyerguy3@...> wrote: > > I'm almost sorry I started all this. What you described below is not what > happens. I leave a max bid of say $20.00 and I am the current high bidder at > $14.50. Later, someone manages to win the auction with a bid of $20.01. > Obviously, they placed their bid after me. So, how can they win by $.01 if > the bid increment is supposed to be $.50? They should have to win with a bid > of at least $20.50. Cabish? > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of My-Yahoo-Groups > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:34 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > It's easy to lose by $.01 ... I've had it done a couple of times. I.E. - a > item is selling at $8.00. The increment is $.50. You bid $10.01. The item is > now at $8.50 - up by .50 over the last bidder and you are now the top > bidder. I come along and bid $10.00 - more than the minimum .50 but less > that your bid of $10.01. You are now the top bidder at $10.01. If no other > bids come along, you won for $10.01 - .01 more that my bid. That's how you > lose an auction by .01! > > > > > > Steve W. > http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19414	From: John Webster	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

I've got an unbuilt Mantua 8 Ball in the blue and red leatherette box with a chrome label $29.50 No. 203 on top. The instruction sheet is dated 1951 and the parts sheet is dated 1952.    Both show a tapered boiler. The brass boiler in the kit is tapered.    The part number for the tender trucks is 34706. The illustration shows what looks like a standard steel crossbeam archbar truck.   My guess is that there is more than one version, probably depending on the year of manufacture.   Midpoint John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19415	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

I have four 8 Balls. I thought they were all straight boilers. A closer look yesterday, and lo. they are all slightly tapered. One has a brass channel frame rather than the diecast frame of the others. Did the first prewar models have a brass channel frame or do I have a one of a kind.? If there were two types of boilers, then there would also need to be two cabs to match as the cab fits over the boiler. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19416	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!

Attachments : Ulrich_Inspectione.jpg Ulrich_Inspectiond.jpg Ulrich_Inspectionc.jpg Ulrich_Inspectionb.jpg Ulrich_Inspectiona.jpg Hey guys! I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY NEWEST FIND! At first glance, it appears to be an unfinished kitbash between a SIERRA diecast passenger car and a ULRICH Kenworth semi.Turns out, the trailer is brass with diecast window frames. It is completely scratch built.  It has been made to run on the rails as maybe an inspection/delivery vehicle? (Any thoughts as to the function or even prototype anyone?) Quite surprising is that unit is quite heavy with a flywheel drive and an old (Varney maybe) pittman-like motor in the trailer.  For ~$36, I think it was a steal of a deal! Heck, a standard Ulrich sells for that much or more anyway!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19417	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

Hey Guys; Based on the HoSeeker parts diagram; http://hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua460mogolpg2.jpg the boiler is tapered, though not across the length. Of course as we've learned there are always "variations" over a span of production. -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19418	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

Al, I have one too. Yes. the first early prewar 8 balls had brass channel frames and you will notice the tender water tank fill lid is round and not square. Also the tendr trucks are two piece brass & diecast, I believe.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Askerberg <aiberg@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler   I have four 8 Balls. I thought they were all straight boilers. A closer look yesterday, and lo. they are all slightly tapered. One has a brass channel frame rather than the diecast frame of the others. Did the first prewar models have a brass channel frame or do I have a one of a kind.? If there were two types of boilers, then there would also need to be two cabs to match as the cab fits over the boiler. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19419	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!

That makes your `Stang obsession look a lot more mainstream doesn't it!? -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19420	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!

It would appear that someone was attempting to make an updated version of a Galloping Goose sort of vehicle.  Quite interesting and unusual to say the least. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey guys! > > I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY NEWEST FIND! > > At first glance, it > appears to be an unfinished kitbash between a SIERRA diecast passenger > car and a ULRICH Kenworth semi.Turns out, the trailer is brass with diecast window frames. It is completely scratch built.  It has been made to run on the > rails as maybe an inspection/delivery vehicle? (Any thoughts as to the function or even prototype anyone?) Quite surprising is that unit is quite heavy with a flywheel drive and an old (Varney maybe) pittman-like motor in the trailer.  For ~$36, I think it was a steal of a deal! Heck, a standard Ulrich sells for that much or more anyway! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19421	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!

Denny, that is an understatement.  But it looks like at the very least Sean got a pair of Central Valley Fox trucks complete with a rubber band "Hi-F" drive. John B. Allyn From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:38:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!   It would appear that someone was attempting to make an updated version of a Galloping Goose sort of vehicle.  Quite interesting and unusual to say the least. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey guys! > > I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY NEWEST FIND! > > At first glance, it > appears to be an unfinished kitbash between a SIERRA diecast passenger > car and a ULRICH Kenworth semi.Turns out, the trailer is brass with diecast window frames. It is completely scratch built.  It has been made to run on the > rails as maybe an inspection/delivery vehicle? (Any thoughts as to the function or even prototype anyone?) Quite surprising is that unit is quite heavy with a flywheel drive and an old (Varney maybe) pittman-like motor in the trailer.  For ~$36, I think it was a steal of a deal! Heck, a standard Ulrich sells for that much or more anyway! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19422	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

Hi all, Someone commented on the photo int eh yardbirdtrains group album and I think I might agree: RE: prr8157 Thu May 17 00:34:14 UTC 2012 "This looks to be a Connover 2-10-2 with many Varney parts substituted-drivers, trucks, pilot, cylinders. But the brass boiler and frame seem to be Connover, made pre-WW2 and rare today. I only ever saw one example. Varney never made a 10 drivered engine." I went to HOseeker and looked at the Connover assembly instructions for this loco and the boilers look like a match to me. The chassis is still the mystery though. Definitely Varney drivers, but the chassis frame looks like a brass channel stock, much like the early Mantua locos.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19423	From: rcjge	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Dibs!?

OK, so far no one has mentioned this: HO VINTAGE BRASS BARR-NIXON PRODUCTS 1802 FM DIESEL SWITCHER KIT w/ ORIGINAL BOX http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I intend to bid on it, so I am going to ask pursuant to an earlier thread that no one unless it's a major necessity for their collection, and I mean that in a rationale way, bid against me. I don't have deep pockets, not even close so I can't get into a bidding war especially with some of you guys who apparently can spend anything they want on model trains. Unlike the Tyco forum no such agreement exists here, but I can ask. I have no idea where this will come in but I can win or loose. Thanks Gents, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19424	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?

I do not intend to bid Gareth, However, I do not buy into the idea that since someone posts here with the request that no one else here should bid against them, that no one should. There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing. I personally believe, by posting here or anywhere else, you are opening up the possibility of being outbid. I only show items I plan to bid on to those I believe to be close personal friends and I can trust to not bid against me. Good Luck! Hope you get it.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Dibs!?   OK, so far no one has mentioned this: HO VINTAGE BRASS BARR-NIXON PRODUCTS 1802 FM DIESEL SWITCHER KIT w/ ORIGINAL BOX http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I intend to bid on it, so I am going to ask pursuant to an earlier thread that no one unless it's a major necessity for their collection, and I mean that in a rationale way, bid against me. I don't have deep pockets, not even close so I can't get into a bidding war especially with some of you guys who apparently can spend anything they want on model trains. Unlike the Tyco forum no such agreement exists here, but I can ask. I have no idea where this will come in but I can win or loose. Thanks Gents, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19425	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Fwd: Conover 2-10-2

Attachments : IMG_7929.JPG IMG_7928.JPG IMG_7927.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Conover 2-10-2 Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:32:33 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: Sean, All, Here are closer pictures of my Conover 2-10-2. The engine has Mantua drivers. I'm waiting to find originals plus the original valve gear for both sides. Other then handrail on the boiler basically done. This used a 6 volt motor. First one they put in and then Mantua. Hard to find larger 6-8 volt motors. Hope this helps you. Remember i tried to completely sand the rough casting down and not just dirt from the sand mold. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19426	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?

Hey Sean: As noted in my posting I acknowledge that there is no contract in any way shape or form in terms of Dibs on the Vintage forum. It's a civilised act however in the public square to my way of thinking. You're likely right, it may well open the door to someone else. There Karma not mine, and anyway maybe they have been looking for that item for several years while I can honestly acknowledge I have not. I have developed a strong interest in FM's and Baldwin's recently and the Vintage cast connection is very attractive hence my post. As for your "There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing" I would suggest that while you can demur, it's within others rights to choose to act otherwise. I don't have to succeed to be glad I acted the way I have. Anyway we'll see. Best, Gareth On 17 May 2012 13:28, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   I do not intend to bid Gareth, However, I do not buy into the idea that since someone posts here with the request that no one else here should bid against them, that no one should. There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing. I personally believe, by posting here or anywhere else, you are opening up the possibility of being outbid. I only show items I plan to bid on to those I believe to be close personal friends and I can trust to not bid against me. Good Luck! Hope you get it.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Dibs!?   OK, so far no one has mentioned this: HO VINTAGE BRASS BARR-NIXON PRODUCTS 1802 FM DIESEL SWITCHER KIT w/ ORIGINAL BOX http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I intend to bid on it, so I am going to ask pursuant to an earlier thread that no one unless it's a major necessity for their collection, and I mean that in a rationale way, bid against me. I don't have deep pockets, not even close so I can't get into a bidding war especially with some of you guys who apparently can spend anything they want on model trains. Unlike the Tyco forum no such agreement exists here, but I can ask. I have no idea where this will come in but I can win or loose. Thanks Gents, Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19427	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Fwd: My latest buy

Attachments : IMG_7934_1.JPG IMG_7933_1.JPG IMG_7932_1.JPG IMG_7931_1.JPG IMG_7930_1.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: My latest buy Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:58:15 -0400 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: These are pictures of a scratch built brass Pacific which just came in the mail. I want some before pictures before I disassemble and start rebuilding it. I did notice the main rods are hand made. Yes the cab definitely needs work. I sent pictures so you can start guessing what is made up of. Varney trucks on the tender which will need the solder cleaned up and some new ladders, corner handrails and some Handrails / Stanchions on the top back of the tender. Since this doesn't fit into my vintage collection when finished it will go into my fantasy steam engine section. I just needed something to work on till I see a vintage item I might need. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19428	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?

In a message dated 5/17/2012 1:40:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jgpedwards@... writes: Hey Sean: As noted in my posting I acknowledge that there is no contract in any way shape or form in terms of Dibs on the Vintage forum. It's a civilised act however in the public square to my way of thinking. You're likely right, it may well open the door to someone else. There Karma not mine, and anyway maybe they have been looking for that item for several years while I can honestly acknowledge I have not. I have developed a strong interest in FM's and Baldwin's recently and the Vintage cast connection is very attractive hence my post. As for your "There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing" I would suggest that while you can demur, it's within others rights to choose to act otherwise. I don't have to succeed to be glad I acted the way I have. Anyway we'll see. Best, Gareth On 17 May 2012 13:28, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   I do not intend to bid Gareth, However, I do not buy into the idea that since someone posts here with the request that no one else here should bid against them, that no one should. There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing. I personally believe, by posting here or anywhere else, you are opening up the possibility of being outbid. I only show items I plan to bid on to those I believe to be close personal friends and I can trust to not bid against me. Good Luck! Hope you get it.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Dibs!?   OK, so far no one has mentioned this: HO VINTAGE BRASS BARR-NIXON PRODUCTS 1802 FM DIESEL SWITCHER KIT w/ ORIGINAL BOX http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I intend to bid on it, so I am going to ask pursuant to an earlier thread that no one unless it's a major necessity for their collection, and I mean that in a rationale way, bid against me. I don't have deep pockets, not even close so I can't get into a bidding war especially with some of you guys who apparently can spend anything they want on model trains. Unlike the Tyco forum no such agreement exists here, but I can ask. I have no idea where this will come in but I can win or loose. Thanks Gents, Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19429	From: Nelson	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

I think it's a B&O Big Six... they had dual air pumps, and also those two split sand domes. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > The more I think of it, the more I believe it is home-made. Back in the early fifties Varney published their "1001 Parts Catalog" just for those modelbuilders desiring to build something of their own. > > Also did you notice the dual cross compound air compressors under the left running board. Not very many railroads built their locomotives with this feature. The Missouri Pacific is the only one I can think of, and the MoPac had three different classes of 2-10-2s. > > The big question is, "was the boiler cast special for this model or will careful examination determine that it is spliced together from two boilers?" > > Very interesting piece. > > Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19430	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery Varney 2-10-2

The big six had split sand domes as you say. The Rivarossi model has them but the Conover doesn't. Both models have dual air pumps.                                                                               Jim H                                On 5/17/2012 3:01 PM, Nelson wrote:   I think it's a B&O Big Six... they had dual air pumps, and also those two split sand domes. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > The more I think of it, the more I believe it is home-made. Back in the early fifties Varney published their "1001 Parts Catalog" just for those modelbuilders desiring to build something of their own. > > Also did you notice the dual cross compound air compressors under the left running board. Not very many railroads built their locomotives with this feature. The Missouri Pacific is the only one I can think of, and the MoPac had three different classes of 2-10-2s. > > The big question is, "was the boiler cast special for this model or will careful examination determine that it is spliced together from two boilers?" > > Very interesting piece. > > Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19431	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?

Gareth, No need to apologize for your attempt to be "civilized" in hoping for a break from those who have a bit more means than yourself relating to your eBay quest. However, I have to put that under the heading of "Nice Try." You must live in the Midwest where folks are of a different and generally more honest and pleasant breed than us cut-throat Easterners (and many in Southern California who brought their narrow mindedness along when they moved there and up graded it). I say all that nastiness with tongue-in-cheek of course, but it's true that I never would have seen that item up for bid if you hadn't mentioned it and am half seriously thinking about bidding on it. I probably won't, however, as I don't have any interest in completing it as a model and probably couldn't sell it for anywhere near what it would cost me to do so anyway. As far as I'm concerned it's all yours. . . . Art W   In a message dated 5/17/2012 1:40:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jgpedwards@... writes: Hey Sean: As noted in my posting I acknowledge that there is no contract in any way shape or form in terms of Dibs on the Vintage forum. It's a civilised act however in the public square to my way of thinking. You're likely right, it may well open the door to someone else. There Karma not mine, and anyway maybe they have been looking for that item for several years while I can honestly acknowledge I have not. I have developed a strong interest in FM's and Baldwin's recently and the Vintage cast connection is very attractive hence my post. As for your "There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing" I would suggest that while you can demur, it's within others rights to choose to act otherwise. I don't have to succeed to be glad I acted the way I have. Anyway we'll see. Best, Gareth On 17 May 2012 13:28, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   I do not intend to bid Gareth, However, I do not buy into the idea that since someone posts here with the request that no one else here should bid against them, that no one should. There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing. I personally believe, by posting here or anywhere else, you are opening up the possibility of being outbid. I only show items I plan to bid on to those I believe to be close personal friends and I can trust to not bid against me. Good Luck! Hope you get it.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Dibs!?   OK, so far no one has mentioned this: HO VINTAGE BRASS BARR-NIXON PRODUCTS 1802 FM DIESEL SWITCHER KIT w/ ORIGINAL BOX http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I intend to bid on it, so I am going to ask pursuant to an earlier thread that no one unless it's a major necessity for their collection, and I mean that in a rationale way, bid against me. I don't have deep pockets, not even close so I can't get into a bidding war especially with some of you guys who apparently can spend anything they want on model trains. Unlike the Tyco forum no such agreement exists here, but I can ask. I have no idea where this will come in but I can win or loose. Thanks Gents, Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19432	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

There was only one type of boiler made by Mantua, for both the Belle and the 8-ball.  It had a slight taper.  The straight boiler in question (Jim H's) is probably a custom job.  That engine also has MDC 0-6-0 cylinders.  Very nice.  The brass channel frame was used on pre-war 8-balls.  After the war that Mantua redesigned their line to use die castings rather than brass fabrications for many parts.  Less machine work, less expensive kit. Ultimatly, they produced all-diecast engines and dropped the partially brass kits, although you could still special order one until about 1959. Richard.   -----Original Message----- From: Askerberg <aiberg@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 9:43 am Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler I have four 8 Balls. I thought they were all straight boilers. A closer look yesterday, and lo. they are all slightly tapered. One has a brass channel frame rather than the diecast frame of the others. Did the first prewar models have a brass channel frame or do I have a one of a kind.? If there were two types of boilers, then there would also need to be two cabs to match as the cab fits over the boiler. Al Askerberg ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

Richard,     My 8 ball is not custom. If you look at the pictures in the early Mantua catalogs you will see they have "straight" boilers. Since they produced them to 1955 they might have went to a tapered boiler. Go into HO seeker and Mantua. Check the 8 ball Pictures in each year of the Mantua catalogs from 42 on and you will see a straight boilers. I don't understand that a diagram showing the Mogul parts from the top shows a tapered boiler. All tapered boilers that could fit the 8 ball frame were from the Belle of the 80's. I'm sorry but I disagree with your assessment of my Mantua 8 Ball Mogul. The problem stems from the interchangeable Bell and Mogul boilers. As for my cylinders being MDC I never took notice if they are. Why don't you ask Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains who is the Mantua outlet for what is now Model Power.                                             Jim H On 5/17/2012 3:21 PM, Richard Dipping wrote:   There was only one type of boiler made by Mantua, for both the Belle and the 8-ball.  It had a slight taper.  The straight boiler in question (Jim H's) is probably a custom job.  That engine also has MDC 0-6-0 cylinders.  Very nice.  The brass channel frame was used on pre-war 8-balls.  After the war that Mantua redesigned their line to use die castings rather than brass fabrications for many parts.  Less machine work, less expensive kit. Ultimatly, they produced all-diecast engines and dropped the partially brass kits, although you could still special order one until about 1959. Richard.   -----Original Message----- From: Askerberg <aiberg@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 9:43 am Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler I have four 8 Balls. I thought they were all straight boilers. A closer look yesterday, and lo. they are all slightly tapered. One has a brass channel frame rather than the diecast frame of the others. Did the first prewar models have a brass channel frame or do I have a one of a kind.? If there were two types of boilers, then there would also need to be two cabs to match as the cab fits over the boiler. Al Askerberg ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19434	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: My latest buy [5 Attachments]

Jim,   On site, that looks like a nice project.  I would like to see the frame and motor after you take the boiler off.  That gear on the last driver has me curious how it appears under the boiler.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19435	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler

Jim-   Thanks for your reply.  I looked at HOSeekers Mantua literature, and I couldn't find any picture of an 8-Ball with a straight boiler.  Because the taper is so slight, it may be deceiving.  I carefully examined each of the cataloges that listed the 2-6-0, including copies in my collection, but I didn't see anything that wasn't tapered.  The Lehigh Valley 2-6-0 has a straight boiler, larger than the tapered version, wide firebox, larger domes and added details such as auxiliary turret with pops and whistle, injectors and piping and a Cal-Scale(?) headlight and bell. None of these parts are used on the tapered boiler engine, or any other Mantua. That, plus the MDC cylinders led me to think it was a custom built job.  The tender displays rivet heads which I've never seen on any Belle or 8-Ball. By the way, I like the looks of this engine better than the 'regular' version. Regardless, it is a fine piece.   Thank you,   Richard.     -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 2:46 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler Richard,     My 8 ball is not custom. If you look at the pictures in the early Mantua catalogs you will see they have "straight" boilers. Since they produced them to 1955 they might have went to a tapered boiler. Go into HO seeker and Mantua. Check the 8 ball Pictures in each year of the Mantua catalogs from 42 on and you will see a straight boilers. I don't understand that a diagram showing the Mogul parts from the top shows a tapered boiler. All tapered boilers that could fit the 8 ball frame were from the Belle of the 80's. I'm sorry but I disagree with your assessment of my Mantua 8 Ball Mogul. The problem stems from the interchangeable Bell and Mogul boilers. As for my cylinders being MDC I never took notice if they are. Why don't you ask Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains who is the Mantua outlet for what is now Model Power.                                             Jim H On 5/17/2012 3:21 PM, Richard Dipping wrote:   There was only one type of boiler made by Mantua, for both the Belle and the 8-ball.  It had a slight taper.  The straight boiler in question (Jim H's) is probably a custom job.  That engine also has MDC 0-6-0 cylinders.  Very nice.  The brass channel frame was used on pre-war 8-balls.  After the war that Mantua redesigned their line to use die castings rather than brass fabrications for many parts.  Less machine work, less expensive kit. Ultimatly, they produced all-diecast engines and dropped the partially brass kits, although you could still special order one until about 1959. Richard.   -----Original Message----- From: Askerberg <aiberg@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 9:43 am Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Straight Boiler I have four 8 Balls. I thought they were all straight boilers. A closer look yesterday, and lo. they are all slightly tapered. One has a brass channel frame rather than the diecast frame of the others. Did the first prewar models have a brass channel frame or do I have a one of a kind.? If there were two types of boilers, then there would also need to be two cabs to match as the cab fits over the boiler. Al Askerberg ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19436	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Mogul Boiler

Attachments : IMG_7938.JPG Richard, I sent this picture from the 1942 Handbook. To me it sure looks like a straight boiler. Tell me roughly where the small tapers starts please. You must have good eyes to pick out that the saddle is MDC. My eyes not the best. I do see that stack and positioned of the domes are different then mine. As I said I bought this over 40 years ago as a Mantua Mogul 8 ball. Had no reason to doubt the seller as I knew him a long time. Placed on a shelf back then the engine wasn't scrutinized closely and has sat there till today. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19437	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: My latest buy

Hi Chuck,                         Hope all is well. When I get it apart I will send some pictures. I hesitate to say anything before.                                                               Jim H On 5/17/2012 3:50 PM, Chuck Higdon wrote:   Jim,   On site, that looks like a nice project.  I would like to see the frame and motor after you take the boiler off.  That gear on the last driver has me curious how it appears under the boiler.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19438	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Mogul + Belle Boilers

Attachments : IMG_7948_2.JPG IMG_7942_2.JPG IMG_7941_2.JPG Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19439	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]

OK, Not sure if this is any help, but I just checked every Bell (3) & Mogul (17+) that I have, including my one pre-war Mogul and every one has a boiler that is tapered. Not a single one had a straight boiler. If there is a such thing, I would love to see it because I never have.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]   Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19440	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?

Just my 2 cents worth. "Dibs" amounts to little more than collusion to hold down the bid price. It is as inappropriate as some of the other scams we see on ebay (getting a buddy to bid the price up, or listing two identical items, one at a ridiculous price, to drive the price of the other, etc.). "Dibs" is fine for the buyer, but what about the seller? Isn't he entitled to the maximum a buyer wishes to pay? Bid what an item is worth to you. If someone outbids you than he/she needed/wanted it more than you. Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > Gareth, > No need to apologize for your attempt to be "civilized" in hoping for a > break from those who have a bit more means than yourself relating to your eBay > quest. However, I have to put that under the heading of "Nice Try." You > must live in the Midwest where folks are of a different and generally more > honest and pleasant breed than us cut-throat Easterners (and many in Southern > California who brought their narrow mindedness along when they moved there > and up graded it). I say all that nastiness with tongue-in-cheek of > course, but it's true that I never would have seen that item up for bid if you > hadn't mentioned it and am half seriously thinking about bidding on it. I > probably won't, however, as I don't have any interest in completing it as a > model and probably couldn't sell it for anywhere near what it would cost me > to do so anyway. As far as I'm concerned it's all yours. . . . > Art W > > > In a message dated 5/17/2012 1:40:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jgpedwards@... writes: > > > > Hey Sean: > > As noted in my posting I acknowledge that there is no contract in any way > shape or form in terms of Dibs on the Vintage forum. It's a civilised act > however in the public square to my way of thinking. You're likely right, it > may well open the door to someone else. There Karma not mine, and anyway > maybe they have been looking for that item for several years while I can > honestly acknowledge I have not. I have developed a strong interest in FM's and > Baldwin's recently and the Vintage cast connection is very attractive > hence my post. > As for your "There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site > listing" I would suggest that while you can demur, it's within others > rights to choose to act otherwise. I don't have to succeed to be glad I acted > the way I have. > > Anyway we'll see. > > Best, > Gareth > > On 17 May 2012 13:28, Sean Naylor <_a69mustang4me@..._ > (mailto:a69mustang4me@...) > wrote: > > > > > > > I do not intend to bid Gareth, > > > However, I do not buy into the idea that since someone posts here with the > request that no one else here should bid against them, that no one should. > There is no calling dibs on an eBay or any other auction site listing. > > > > I personally believe, by posting here or anywhere else, you are opening up > the possibility of being outbid. > > > I only show items I plan to bid on to those I believe to be close personal > friends and I can trust to not bid against me. > > > Good Luck! Hope you get it. > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > ____________________________________ > From: rcjge <_jgpedwards@..._ (mailto:jgpedwards@...) > > To: _vintageHO@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:07 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Dibs!? > > > > > > OK, so far no one has mentioned this: > > HO VINTAGE BRASS BARR-NIXON PRODUCTS 1802 FM DIESEL SWITCHER KIT w/ > ORIGINAL BOX > > _http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984 > .m1438.l2649_ > (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190677273888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649) > > I intend to bid on it, so I am going to ask pursuant to an earlier thread > that no one unless it's a major necessity for their collection, and I mean > that in a rationale way, bid against me. > > I don't have deep pockets, not even close so I can't get into a bidding > war especially with some of you guys who apparently can spend anything they > want on model trains. Unlike the Tyco forum no such agreement exists here, > but I can ask. > > I have no idea where this will come in but I can win or loose. > > Thanks Gents, > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who > are outside, and that you may lack nothing" > -- I Thess. 4:11b-12 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19441	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers

Jim, In studying your photos I detect a slight taper between the two domes on both the 8-Ball and the Belle. It is hidden on the 8-Ball photo by the fact that the straight handrail sits right on top of the top line of the boiler in the photo, but the taper is evident in the way the light reflects off the side of the boiler. My 8-Ball also has this slight taper. It is very slight, almost undetectable. I have a feeling that everyone has the same boilers. The taper is so slight that it is easily missed. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which > I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you > agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua > Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has > always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this > case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live > and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19442	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul Boiler [1 Attachment]

Hi, Jim-   Thanks for going to the trouble of sending the picture of the 8-Ball.  I have seen this in one of my catalogs and it is the angle of the photo combined with the position of the handrails that give the impression of a straight boiler.  I think the taper begins at the rear of the center driver and ends a little in front of the steam dome.  Notice the lighter shade of the boiler in this area, indicating a different angle of reflection.  Also, the picture seems to be retouched a little, as was often done in catalogs and advertising.  Does your engine have a brass frame?  Or a 6 volt motor?    I would'nt be disappointed if this were a conversion.  It is a great locomotive. Richard.   By the way, my eyesight isn't what it was, either. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:02 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul Boiler [1 Attachment] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Richard, I sent this picture from the 1942 Handbook. To me it sure looks like a straight boiler. Tell me roughly where the small tapers starts please. You must have good eyes to pick out that the saddle is MDC. My eyes not the best. I do see that stack and positioned of the domes are different then mine. As I said I bought this over 40 years ago as a Mantua Mogul 8 ball. Had no reason to doubt the seller as I knew him a long time. Placed on a shelf back then the engine wasn't scrutinized closely and has sat there till today. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 1 of 1 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1664596520/item/list <*> IMG_7938.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19443	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]

Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19444	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers

If one checks the boiler part numbers in hoseeker, the post war Belle and 8 Ball boilers carry the same number. Unfortunately, I haven’t found a prewar boiler part number for the 8 Ball.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers     Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]               Richard,               Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus  what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound.                                                                      Jim H     <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard:   <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list     <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG   <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG   <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG   ------------------------------------   Yahoo! Groups Links   <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/   <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional   <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required)   <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com   <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19445	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers

hELLO rICHARD, tHESE BANDS YOU MENTION WERE EXTERNAL BRASS STRIPS APPLIED TO THE BOILER BY THE BUILDER AND oops... The brass bands were applied by the builder and not he factory. Therefore they were never actually connected to the boiler from the start. The base boiler is still the same part on each locomotive.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19446	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments]

Jim-   I forgot to say that your Belle appears to be totally "stock"- even to the escution pins supplied to represent flag holders on the pilot beam.  These are somtimes repaced by Varney flag holders. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19447	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers

Sean-   Yes, I agree.  I probably wasn't clear enough.  There was a difference in the tenders, too. The Belle tender body was drilled to accept hand grabs on the 4 corners.  The Mogul tender was not. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:21 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers hELLO rICHARD, tHESE BANDS YOU MENTION WERE EXTERNAL BRASS STRIPS APPLIED TO THE BOILER BY THE BUILDER AND oops... The brass bands were applied by the builder and not he factory. Therefore they were never actually connected to the boiler from the start. The base boiler is still the same part on each locomotive.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19448	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers

Attachments : listings 171.JPG listings 168.JPG listings 167.JPG Hi all, Here are some side by side views of both a Belle and  Mogul. They both have tapered boilers.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19449	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul Boiler

There's a railing near the top that draws the eye and camouflage's the taper. That's how it looks to me. It's more obvious in my picks see "Vimy..." because there are no railings... -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19451	From: rcjge	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul + Belle Boilers

Guys: I really think the railing near the top in many of the pictures is the culprit in the "Great 8 Ball Taper Mystery"! When I was in Reconnaissance in the Army a rather long time ago we were trained to be wary of "draws" and "tells" the former being visual tricks used to distort what we thought we saw and the latter clues to the imminent actions of in that case UN-insigniaed Soviet Officers. I think that's what's gong on here, a visual "draw". Without railings it's more clear and Sean's top shot comparo really helps... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19452	From: rcjge	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: Re: Dibs!?

Collusion, huh? That's a pretty low threshold you have there. Anyway, guys I got that auction item I was looking for. For a reasonable price I think. I have no idea what quality I can expect from a Barr-Nixon kit. Didn't they do a GP7 about that same time, 60's? Anyway anyone who knows anything about the history of this model please let me know... Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> wrote: > > Just my 2 cents worth. "Dibs" amounts to little more than collusion to hold down the bid price. > Dale in Spokane

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19453	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Timing is everything

In a different thread I had asked the question as to why some of the board members would spend time working on the old Mantua 8 Ball locomotives and some of you explained your motivations.  While most of my efforts are directed toward reworking brass locomotives here is one project that was done for much the same reason as you working on the old 8 Ball models.  Check out my blog to see my latest remotoring project. It's titled Timing is Everything and shows the reworking of a little ole AHM/Rivarossi locomotive. http://www.cwrailman.com/blog.html Sometimes you just have to do a project like this.  This model will someday be used on a small model railroad I have had in the planning stages for about 8 years. Click on the comments under the blog and let me know what you think of the project or any suggestions you may have. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19454	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

No. If you notice, if high bid is $14.50, ebay will say that you must now bid $15.00 or more as an acceptable bid. My bid of $20.01 is more than the $15.00 minimum bid and happens to be $.01 greater than your bid. If you were to bid at this point, your minimum bid would have to be $20.51 or greater.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid   I’m almost sorry I started all this. What you described below is not what happens. I leave a max bid of say $20.00 and I am the current high bidder at $14.50. Later, someone manages to win the auction with a bid of $20.01. Obviously, they placed their bid after me. So, how can they win by $.01 if the bid increment is supposed to be $.50? They should have to win with a bid of at least $20.50. Cabish? From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of My-Yahoo-Groups Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:34 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   It's easy to lose by $.01 ... I've had it done a couple of times. I.E. - a item is selling at $8.00. The increment is $.50. You bid $10.01. The item is now at $8.50 - up by .50 over the last bidder and you are now the top bidder. I come along and bid $10.00 - more than the minimum .50 but less that your bid of $10.01. You are now the top bidder at $10.01. If no other bids come along, you won for $10.01 - .01 more that my bid. That's how you lose an auction by .01! Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carbo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] close bid   I understood what you were saying and also how you won it. I was throwing out the occurrence I had from the other side and hoping maybe someone could tell me how it could happen. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid   Richard C.,      My bid of $102.50 was a bid increment higher then the second highest bidder. I didn't win the bid by a penny. I just though it funny that my maximum bid was only a penny higher then my winning bid.                                                           Jim H On 5/12/2012 4:10 PM, Richard Carbo wrote:   Good for you. I have had occurrences where I lost a bid by $.01. I questioned the seller and eBay as to how that could happen? You would think I would have to lose by at least the bid increment, correct? No one ever answered me. Richard C. From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] close bid   I wanted to tell you about the bidding on that vintage scratch built brass Pacific steam engine I won last night on eBay was. I won the engine with a bid of $102.50. The odd part was my maximum bid was $102.51. I put just enough on the item to win it with a penny to spare. Never had that happen before. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19455	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: close bid

Don,   Thanks, I'm not always clear on explanations. Also, sorry, I replied to the message from Richard before I received this message from you. I hope his ebay thing will now be put to rest.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: don_dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: close bid   What Steve posted is not clear. In your example, you had a maximum bid of $ 20.00, BUT you said the current auction was at $ 14.50. The new bidder only had to be at least 50 cents over the $ 14.50, not the $ 20.00, so his bid of $ 20.01 was accepted. The "bid increment" does NOT mean bids must be in multiples of 50 cents. It only means the new bid be AT LEAST 50 cents over the CURRENT high bid. Thus when you were outbid at $ 20.01, if you still wanted it you would have had to enter a new bid of at least $ 20.51. I hope that explains it, and lets let this thread die. Don listowner --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Carbo" <flyerguy3@...> wrote: > > I'm almost sorry I started all this. What you described below is not what > happens. I leave a max bid of say $20.00 and I am the current high bidder at > $14.50. Later, someone manages to win the auction with a bid of $20.01. > Obviously, they placed their bid after me. So, how can they win by $.01 if > the bid increment is supposed to be $.50? They should have to win with a bid > of at least $20.50. Cabish? > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of My-Yahoo-Groups > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:34 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] close bid > > > > > > It's easy to lose by $.01 ... I've had it done a couple of times. I.E. - a > item is selling at $8.00. The increment is $.50. You bid $10.01. The item is > now at $8.50 - up by .50 over the last bidder and you are now the top > bidder. I come along and bid $10.00 - more than the minimum .50 but less > that your bid of $10.01. You are now the top bidder at $10.01. If no other > bids come along, you won for $10.01 - .01 more that my bid. That's how you > lose an auction by .01! > > > > > > Steve W. > http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19456	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Original 8 Ball

Since I believed I had in my collection an original or mostly original ( some detail parts some one added ) Mantua Mogul 8 Ball and found out other wise I now have to start searching for one for my vintage collection. The one I have will go into my fantasy collection of non original vintage items. I'm not calling any dibs on it but I intend to bid my highest bid on the best one I can find. If I win I win if I lose I lose. Oh I'm not a rich man either. I have to watch my pennies. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19457	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Original 8 Ball

Subtle.... -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19458	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle photos

Attachments : 100_2932.JPG 100_2931.JPG 100_2930.JPG Hi, all-   I dug out my Belle of the 80s for a photo shoot...   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers Sean-   Yes, I agree.  I probably wasn't clear enough.  There was a difference in the tenders, too. The Belle tender body was drilled to accept hand grabs on the 4 corners.  The Mogul tender was not. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:21 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers hELLO rICHARD, tHESE BANDS YOU MENTION WERE EXTERNAL BRASS STRIPS APPLIED TO THE BOILER BY THE BUILDER AND oops... The brass bands were applied by the builder and not he factory. Therefore they were never actually connected to the boiler from the start. The base boiler is still the same part on each locomotive.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Richard, Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19459	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Original 8 Ball

Gareth, All        Don't know in what context you mean subtle.   If it has to do with this "dibs" thing let me remind every one some past history. Back many years when still a member of the HO Scale Collectors  + History - SIG and up to this time every time anyone was searching for information I shared my knowledge. I didn't say NO it's for me alone. I sent LOTS of info and pictures to HOseeker.  I didn't say for certain people only. If someone approached me for help or a part I tried to help every body, not just certain people. I given away many free parts if I have  and some one needed them. I don't brag about it I just do it. I have never refused to help anyone that ask. So if I'm not a civil person I guess I should stop all of the above. I do it to promote vintage HO and out of the goodness of my heart.    Sean N is exactly the same type of person.     Now one thing I would request, not demand, is to not mention if you find an item on eBay and tell the group until it goes for auction. I know people have a good heart but it also causes other people to see the item I might be bidding on and makes the bidding go higher. I spend many hours searching for items I need so I can put my best bid on it. While I have been guilty in the past I try not to do it in fairness to people who want to bid their price with out outside influence. Do what you feel is right.  My opinion.                                                                  Jim H On 5/18/2012 11:17 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Subtle.... -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19460	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle photos [3 Attachments]

Richard and all,   I’ve been looking at Belle’s now the past several days and it’s really a nice looking 4-4-0. Never really paid any attention to the before but now I’m thinking I’d really like to have one and do a bit of work on it. The thing just begs for added detail. I’ll bet if I search long enough I’ll come across a GBW (or one of its predecessor lines) 4-4-0’s that have the same overall appearance.   Of course, if I find one as nice as Richard’s I’d have to let it be and get another to redo.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:50 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belle photos [3 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Richard Dipping included below] Hi, all-   I dug out my Belle of the 80s for a photo shoot...   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   Sean-   Yes, I agree.  I probably wasn't clear enough.  There was a difference in the tenders, too. The Belle tender body was drilled to accept hand grabs on the 4 corners.  The Mogul tender was not. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:21 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   hELLO rICHARD,   tHESE BANDS YOU MENTION WERE EXTERNAL BRASS STRIPS APPLIED TO THE BOILER BY THE BUILDER AND oops...   The brass bands were applied by the builder and not he factory. Therefore they were never actually connected to the boiler from the start. The base boiler is still the same part on each locomotive.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers     Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]               Richard,               Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus  what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound.                                                                      Jim H     <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard:   <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list     <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG   <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG   <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG   ------------------------------------   Yahoo! Groups Links   <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/   <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional   <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required)   <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com   <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19461	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Belle of the 80's

Hi Richard, I looked at the pictures of your 'Belle". Very nice. A showpiece. Is the paint scheme yours or does it represent a real RR ? I will answer your offer to sell to me later and off site. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19462	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle photos

John-   Thanks for the kind words.  I got so tired of seeing that old Belle with flaking paint and missing parts that I HAD to fix it up.  Now for the umpteen OTHER projects...   Richard -----Original Message----- From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, May 18, 2012 11:38 am Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Belle photos Richard and all,   I’ve been looking at Belle’s now the past several days and it’s really a nice looking 4-4-0. Never really paid any attention to the before but now I’m thinking I’d really like to have one and do a bit of work on it. The thing just begs for added detail. I’ll bet if I search long enough I’ll come across a GBW (or one of its predecessor lines) 4-4-0’s that have the same overall appearance.   Of course, if I find one as nice as Richard’s I’d have to let it be and get another to redo.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:5 0 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Belle photos [3 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Richard Dipping included below] Hi, all-   I dug out my Belle of the 80s for a photo shoot...   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   Sean-   Yes, I agree.  I probably wasn't clear enough.  There was a difference in the tenders, too. The Belle tender body was drilled to accept hand grabs on the 4 corners.  The Mogul tender was not. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 7:21 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers   hELLO rICHARD,   tHESE BANDS YOU MENTION WERE EXTERNAL BRASS STRIPS APPLIED TO THE BOILER BY THE BUILDER AND oops...   The brass bands were applied by the builder and not he factory. Therefore they were never actually connected to the boiler from the start. The base boiler is still the same part on each locomotive.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers     Jim-   Yes I would agree that it is a Belle, with the same boiler as used on the 8-Ball Mogul.  Belles had the brass boiler bands whereas the 8-Balls didn't.  Very nice job on the restoration.  I noted the tender trucks as being "Bettendorf" style rather than arch bar.  Kits manufactured near the end of production in the 50s had this substitution.  They sometimes had Nylon gears as well. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 4:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mogul + Belle Boilers [3 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]               Richard,               Back again. I sent pictures of my " Belle of the 80's " which I painted and decaled after doing some work on the engine. Would you agree it's a Belle and you say the same boiler was used on the Mantua < span style='color:black'>Mogul 8 Ball ( Picture from 1942 Mantua catalog. While my motto has always been "Never Say Never" because I've seen things change. In this case if all above is correct plus  what you state I can change to "Live and Learn. I didn't learn to walk on water if proof is sound.            & nbsp;                                                         Jim H     <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard:   <*> 3 of 3 Photo(s) http://g roups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/734150628/item/list     <*> IMG_7941_2.JPG   <*> IMG_7942_2.JPG   <*> IMG_7948_2.JPG   ------------------------------------   Yahoo! Groups Links   <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/   <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional   <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required)   <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com< o:p>   <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19463	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle of the 80's

Jim-   The paint scheme is of my own devising.  I wanted something colorful and different, but believable.  The "official" Mantua color scheme is green with red trim.  I used a couple shades of brown, dark on the frame (engine, tender and truck frames) and lighter on other parts, plus red for trim and striping.  Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, May 18, 2012 1:15 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Belle of the 80's Hi Richard, I looked at the pictures of your 'Belle". Very nice. A showpiece. Is the paint scheme yours or does it represent a real RR ? I will answer your offer to sell to me later and off site. Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19464	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: Belle of the 80's

Pretty Cool Paint scheme. After all "Fantasy Scheme's" are in the Mantua/Tyco Tradition.... :) -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19465	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Newest Buy

Attachments : IMG_7957.JPG IMG_7956.JPG IMG_7955.JPG IMG_7952.JPG IMG_7951.JPG Hi Chuck, All, On site. I started to take my latest piece apart. First picture is the motor used. Looks Pittman. The second picture shows a John English trailing truck. I have a hunch since everything else is brass and scratch built the trailing truck that was on went missing and the J English truck was thrown on. You can see the lead truck is scratch built made from a brass center and two brass tubes for the wheels and soldered together. Third picture show piping on the right side of the boiler and well done. Fourth picture shows the biggest thing to be fixed. The cab and front part of cab have to be soldered after the piece is straightened out. Fifth picture shows the top of the frame. Six picture is underside of the frame showing the double bend main rods to clear the front driver screw. Last picture is the other side of the boiler showing that piping and detail which is well done. I give the person an A for the scratch building job. The frame rolls easily with out the motor The frame runs smooth back and forth with the motor . All frame, boiler, cab and tender parts are nicely done and the detail is really nice. The tender body and frame are great other then some ladders broke off. I'm tempted to buy those rivet head decals for the tender and add some detail since it's very plain. I will get a little deeper into the frame and disassemble to make sure it is greased and oil. Runs to nice to have something broken. It's one of the few engines where the back driver is the gear driven driver that I can remember in a larger steam engine. The only similar engine that comes to mind that has this type of set up is one version of the 1960 era Athearn Pacifics. If I find anything else that is important or if you want to see more of the tender I will send pictures. Glad I got it. It's a well scratch built model made by someone who knew what they were doing. And the damage to the cab is minor. I wish I could find more about the builder. Tomorrow I will send pictures of a scratch built Pacific with the oddest drive in a steam engine I've ever seen. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19466	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Drilling holes in metal side passenger cars

I have some vintage aluminum side passenger cars that I would like to which I would like to add grab irons. Any suggestions on the best ways to drill the sides, the best way to glue the grab irons. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19467	From: John Webster	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Mogul Boiler

If you look carefully at the catalog photo Jim has provided you will notice the top of the boiler below the handrail in the area of the bell and slightly above the handrail near the dome just in front of the cab.   The die cast footboards are built to accomodate this taper.   John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19468	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting! [6 Attachments]

Hi Group,   Doing some catching up on postings.This is one of the sweetest things I've seen in a long time. Very nicely done without looking sloppy or amatuer. You have all the luck Sean!!!   Tod (Riverboy)   --- On Thu, 5/17/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] It is finds like this that keep me collecting! [6 Attachments] To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>, "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, May 17, 2012, 10:53 AM   Hey guys! I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY NEWEST FIND! At first glance, it appears to be an unfinished kitbash between a SIERRA diecast passenger car and a ULRICH Kenworth semi.Turns out, the trailer is brass with diecast window frames. It is completely scratch built.  It has been made to run on the rails as maybe an inspection/delivery vehicle? (Any thoughts as to the function or even prototype anyone?) Quite surprising is that unit is quite heavy with a flywheel drive and an old (Varney maybe) pittman-like motor in the trailer.  For ~$36, I think it was a steal of a deal! Heck, a standard Ulrich sells for that much or more anyway!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19469	From: pe700	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newest Buy

Sounds and looks like a beauty Jim! Built by a master craftsman. Reminds me of those I read about about like Carl Traub to name one. Pete E. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Chuck, All, > > On site. I started to take my latest piece apart. > First picture is the motor used. Looks Pittman. The second picture > shows a John English trailing truck. I have a hunch since everything > else is brass and scratch built the trailing truck that was on went > missing and the J English truck was thrown on. You can see the lead > truck is scratch built made from a brass center and two brass tubes for > the wheels and soldered together. Third picture show piping on the right > side of the boiler and well done. Fourth picture shows the biggest thing > to be fixed. The cab and front part of cab have to be soldered after the > piece is straightened out. Fifth picture shows the top of the frame. > Six picture is underside of the frame showing the double bend main rods > to clear the front driver screw. Last picture is the other side of the > boiler showing that piping and detail which is well done. > > I give the person an A for the scratch building job. The > frame rolls easily with out the motor The frame runs smooth back and > forth with the motor . All frame, boiler, cab and tender parts are > nicely done and the detail is really nice. The tender body and frame > are great other then some ladders broke off. I'm tempted to buy those > rivet head decals for the tender and add some detail since it's very > plain. I will get a little deeper into the frame and disassemble to make > sure it is greased and oil. Runs to nice to have something broken. It's > one of the few engines where the back driver is the gear driven driver > that I can remember in a larger steam engine. The only similar engine > that comes to mind that has this type of set up is one version of the > 1960 era Athearn Pacifics. > > If I find anything else that is important or if you want to see > more of the tender I will send pictures. Glad I got it. It's a well > scratch built model made by someone who knew what they were doing. And > the damage to the cab is minor. I wish I could find more about the builder. > > Tomorrow I will send pictures of a scratch built Pacific with > the oddest drive in a steam engine I've ever seen. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19470	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newest Buy [7 Attachments]

Hi Jim,   Nice photos, it does look like a great find.  Glad it runs so well.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:07 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Newest Buy [7 Attachments]     Hi Chuck, All, On site. I started to take my latest piece apart. First picture is the motor used. Looks Pittman. The second picture shows a John English trailing truck. I have a hunch since everything else is brass and scratch built the trailing truck that was on went missing and the J English truck was thrown on. You can see the lead truck is scratch built made from a brass center and two brass tubes for the wheels and soldered together. Third picture show piping on the right side of the boiler and well done. Fourth picture shows the biggest thing to be fixed. The cab and front part of cab have to be soldered after the piece is straightened out. Fifth picture shows the top of the frame. Six picture is underside of the frame showing the double bend main rods to clear the front driver screw. Last picture is the other side of the boiler showing that piping and detail which is well done. I give the person an A for the scratch building job. The frame rolls easily with out the motor The frame runs smooth back and forth with the motor . All frame, boiler, cab and tender parts are nicely done and the detail is really nice. The tender body and frame are great other then some ladders broke off. I'm tempted to buy those rivet head decals for the tender and add some detail since it's very plain. I will get a little deeper into the frame and disassemble to make sure it is greased and oil. Runs to nice to have something broken. It's one of the few engines where the back driver is the gear driven driver that I can remember in a larger steam engine. The only similar engine that comes to mind that has this type of set up is one version of the 1960 era Athearn Pacifics. If I find anything else that is important or if you want to see more of the tender I will send pictures. Glad I got it. It's a well scratch built model made by someone who knew what they were doing. And the damage to the cab is minor. I wish I could find more about the builder. Tomorrow I will send pictures of a scratch built Pacific with the oddest drive in a steam engine I've ever seen. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19471	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!

Great find. I always liked those Ulrich trucks. Looks like it could use the air cleaner but that's about all. Love the set up and trucks. Dennis On 5/19/12, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > Hi Group, Doing some catching up on postings.This is one of the sweetest > things I've seen in a long time. Very nicely done without looking sloppy or > amatuer. You have all the luck Sean!!! Tod (Riverboy) > > > > --- On Thu, 5/17/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] It is finds like this that keep me collecting! [6 > Attachments] > To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>, > "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, May 17, 2012, 10:53 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] > > > Hey guys! > > I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY NEWEST FIND! > > At first glance, it > appears to be an unfinished kitbash between a SIERRA diecast passenger > car and a ULRICH Kenworth semi.Turns out, the trailer is brass with diecast > window frames. It is completely scratch built.  It has been made to run on > the > rails as maybe an inspection/delivery vehicle? (Any thoughts as to the > function or even prototype anyone?) Quite surprising is that unit is quite > heavy with a flywheel drive and an old (Varney maybe) pittman-like motor in > the trailer.  For ~$36, I think it was a steal of a deal! Heck, a standard > Ulrich sells for that much or more anyway! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19472	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: It is finds like this that keep me collecting!

Sean       That truck  ( Tractor / Trailer ) powered by rubber bands is really neat. It's got to be one of a kind.        Nice find.                                        Jim On 5/19/2012 9:03 AM, Dennis Thompson wrote:   Great find. I always liked those Ulrich trucks. Looks like it could use the air cleaner but that's about all. Love the set up and trucks. Dennis On 5/19/12, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > Hi Group, Doing some catching up on postings.This is one of the sweetest > things I've seen in a long time. Very nicely done without looking sloppy or > amatuer. You have all the luck Sean!!! Tod (Riverboy) > > > > --- On Thu, 5/17/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] It is finds like this that keep me collecting! [6 > Attachments] > To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>, > "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, May 17, 2012, 10:53 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] > > > Hey guys! > > I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY NEWEST FIND! > > At first glance, it > appears to be an unfinished kitbash between a SIERRA diecast passenger > car and a ULRICH Kenworth semi.Turns out, the trailer is brass with diecast > window frames. It is completely scratch built.  It has been made to run on > the > rails as maybe an inspection/delivery vehicle? (Any thoughts as to the > function or even prototype anyone?) Quite surprising is that unit is quite > heavy with a flywheel drive and an old (Varney maybe) pittman-like motor in > the trailer.  For ~$36, I think it was a steal of a deal! Heck, a standard > Ulrich sells for that much or more anyway! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19473	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Odd Drive Pacific

Attachments : IMG_7968.JPG IMG_7967.JPG IMG_7962.JPG IMG_7961.JPG When I moved to the new house a number of train items magically disappeared. I've sent pictures of one which is a hand made Pacific with an odd drive that I just found in some boxes. I got this some where before July 2006 when the pictures were in our newsletter which was just about the end of the HO Scale Collectors + History -Sig. It is an unusual scratch built Pacific. Front of boiler is wood,boiler rear is sheet shaped brass. Unusual double worm drive on first and second driver. The brass frame and Box Pox drivers do not look to be hand made. The tender is one piece of copper wrap and soldered around a block of wood. If you look close at the tender you will see the previous owner used a nail or something else to make rivet heads on the out side of the tender body. When I got it I started to strip it and the front wooden part of the boiler I was getting ready to sand. Also you will notice the the side rods are not attached to the last driver. This had given me the idea that things were not working out to good for the previous owner. I didn't get much chance to put time on it because it had been packed away. When we got to the new house I still had all the trains packed away till I finished the basement and the train room. When I finally started to pull my collection out this was missing. I still haven't found the motor or drive gear for the motor. If I remember right it laid out like the Winton Berk which had a pulley to pulley with coil spring driving it. This had gear to gear much like many diesel engines. I had started to mess around with it but gave up and boxed it. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19474	From: shawmut_fan	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Clerestory roof for Walthers 7843 Postal/Baggage/Passenger Combine

I bought this kit on E Bay some years ago. It represents a Soo Line prototype with postal, baggage and passenger compartments. The kit that I bought came with an arch roof, which doesn't fit in with the rest of my passenger cars, which all have clerestory roofs. Does anyone have an 80 foot Walthers wood clerestory roof that they'd be willing to sell, or, in the alternative, swap for an 80 foot Walthers wood arch roof? I've got Northeastern clerestory roof stock but it has a more old-fashioned cross section. Something in the back of my mind tells me that in the last years of the tinplate sided kits Walthers had a plastic clerestory roof; that would probably be fine as well if it's 80 feet long. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19475	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Clerestory roof for Walthers 7843 Postal/Baggage/Passenger Combi

If you can tolerated not being original parts, you can score some scrap Athearn clerestory cars and use their roofs after removal and sectioning to the proper Walthers length. Having a similar problem, my long-term solution is to get a vac-u-form set-up and make some masters, rework some stuff to be more masters, and vac-u-form my roof needs in the sorta near future. I have a unit arriving. Mike Bauers On May 19, 2012, at 11:54 AM, shawmut_fan wrote: > I bought this kit on E Bay some years ago. It represents a Soo Line prototype with postal, baggage and passenger compartments. The kit that I bought came with an arch roof, which doesn't fit in with the rest of my passenger cars, which all have clerestory roofs. Does anyone have an 80 foot Walthers wood clerestory roof that they'd be willing to sell, or, in the alternative, swap for an 80 foot Walthers wood arch roof? I've got Northeastern clerestory roof stock but it has a more old-fashioned cross section. Something in the back of my mind tells me that in the last years of the tinplate sided kits Walthers had a plastic clerestory roof; that would probably be fine as well if it's 80 feet long. > > John B. Allyn >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19476	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: cleaning needle files

Short of buying new needle files is there anyway to clean of solder, brass or aluminum that is wedged in them. Have tried brass hand brush and powered brass wheel with not much luck. Only thing that seems to work is to use the point of an Exacto blade and pick each piece out. Really time consuming. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19477	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

a wire brush will work. Maybe Lowe”s   I did much hand filing as an optical die and tool maker in the 50s. That’s what I used. They were cheap then not sure about now.   Herb

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19478	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

The wire brush with the steel bristles will do it.  Then just some clean up with the Exacto on one or two sections.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 5:32 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] cleaning needle files     Short of buying new needle files is there anyway to clean of solder, brass or aluminum that is wedged in them. Have tried brass hand brush and powered brass wheel with not much luck. Only thing that seems to work is to use the point of an Exacto blade and pick each piece out. Really time consuming. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19479	From: Tom Hare	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

Hi Jim. I use a steel wire wheel on my dremel tool. Works fast and well.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2012, at 5:31 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Short of buying new needle files is there anyway to clean of solder, brass or aluminum that is wedged in them. Have tried brass hand brush and powered brass wheel with not much luck. Only thing that seems to work is to use the point of an Exacto blade and pick each piece out. Really time consuming. Jim H =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19480	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

JIm-   There is a tool called a file card which is like your brass hand brush only with steel wire.  It also takes a bit of work.  But it is designed to clean files. I usually go for the Exacto point.  It gets everything if you spend the time.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, May 22, 2012 4:31 pm Subject: [vintageHO] cleaning needle files Short of buying new needle files is there anyway to clean of solder, brass or aluminum that is wedged in them. Have tried brass hand brush and powered brass wheel with not much luck. Only thing that seems to work is to use the point of an Exacto blade and pick each piece out. Really time consuming. Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19481	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

Yep, a file card is the way to go.  They are pretty cheap and your local Ace Hardware has them.  And as Richard says, finish up with an X-Acto.  It does take a bit of time, but does the job very nicely. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: richarddipping@... Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 19:30:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] cleaning needle files   JIm-   There is a tool called a file card which is like your brass hand brush only with steel wire.  It also takes a bit of work.  But it is designed to clean files. I usually go for the Exacto point.  It gets everything if you spend the time.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, May 22, 2012 4:31 pm Subject: [vintageHO] cleaning needle files Short of buying new needle files is there anyway to clean of solder, brass or aluminum that is wedged in them. Have tried brass hand brush and powered brass wheel with not much luck. Only thing that seems to work is to use the point of an Exacto blade and pick each piece out. Really time consuming. Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19482	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 5/23/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

I flame them with a torch...solder, brass and aluminum have lower melting points than the files.  They ball up and drop out with a tap, any stubborn stuff is more easily knocked out.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19483	From: John H	Date: 5/23/2012
Subject: Varney streamlined B&O Combine on "Buy it now"

eBay item # 110880118718 Yeah, I normally wouldn't put an auction on here to prevent running up the price. But this is a "BIN" for $9.95 plus $3.60 shipping. Needs some cleaning, has some prototypical rust that should about 95% come off, sprung metal trucks and one(!) Mantua coupler. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19484	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

Jim, I use a torch on them first to burn off any oils and other soft matter. I do not heat the file until it is red hot. Just long enough to burn off the debris and make the remains hard enough to easily wire brush off. I suppose heating to a red hot and then quenching would not hurt as it would bake the metal harder (and consequently more brittle as well).   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 5:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] cleaning needle files   Short of buying new needle files is there anyway to clean of solder, brass or aluminum that is wedged in them. Have tried brass hand brush and powered brass wheel with not much luck. Only thing that seems to work is to use the point of an Exacto blade and pick each piece out. Really time consuming. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19485	From: ford35lh	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Can I salvage these ???

I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. They were stored in someones basement too long and retain a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is effecting them ??? thanks ford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19486	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

At the risk of being told to shut up when you are guessing, and I am, I am going to write up what I would do: The boxes probably smell the worst, followed by the raw wood parts, and then the painted wood. The metal should not smell very badly. I would bake the boxes at 100 to 200 degrees F for a couple of hours to dry them out. If the glue joints open, use LePage's mucilage (if you can find it) to reglue them. Then spray them with Fabreze. I'd do the same with the raw wood.  I am not sure I'd want to do the same with the roof and floor. They might warp. Perhaps cleaning them with a rag moistened with a solution of Clorox chlorine bleach will do the job. It might take a few wipings. Then wipe with a clean rag moistened with the Fabreze to cut the chlorine smell if you find it offensive.  On the painted metal, the bleach shouldn't cause a problem, BUT test it out first. Maybe the Fabreze alone will do the job with the painted metal. Okay, guys, OPEN FIRE! Walter On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:40 AM, ford35lh <ford35lh@...> wrote:   I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. They were stored in someones basement too long and retain a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is effecting them ??? thanks ford -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19487	From: Mike	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

To kill the odor, use the old book method. Buy a couple of boxes of dryer softener sheets , place the cars in a sound cardboard carton that has a few times the room as just the cars need. Separate one box of dryer sheets and put them and the cars into the card board box. Close up the box and let it sit for a week or two. Check the result and repeat if needed. As for killing the mold, I'm thinking of going extreme. Get two empty margarine or similar tubs. Put the moldy cars in a decent card board box and set it in the end of the yard so that the breeze is blowing out of the yard, if you have neighbors go for the middle of the yard place one of the tubs in the bottom of the box. Get any pets or people out of the yard. Get out a bottle of chlorine bleach and a bottle of household ammonia. Open one of the bottles and fill another margarine tub to less than half full and pour that into the tub that is in the box. Cap that bottle and put it aside. Making certain that the yards still empty, open the other bottle, holding the out of box tub well away from you, half fill the tub....... Use a fresh, third tub if you can... Just buy some 'tipper-wear type of small bowl and get at least three of them. At this point you are ready to gently pour the half bowl of liquid into the waiting bowl inside the box...... You are about to make poison gas and should hold your breath as you pour part b Ito part a inside the box...... Then quickly step away while not taking a breath. When you are several feet away breathe. Just leave the box alone for an hour or more......... That should kill the mold...... I dont 'know what would be safer to use. But the job will be well done. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19488	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Lysol. -----Original Message----- From: ford35lh <ford35lh@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 9:29 am Subject: [vintageHO] Can I salvage these ??? I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. They were stored in someones basement too long and retain a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is effecting them ??? thanks ford ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19489	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Wipe the spot with a damp wash rag, and spray Lysol.  Airing them in the garage is already helping them.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ford35lh Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:41 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Can I salvage these ???     I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. They were stored in someones basement too long and retain a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is effecting them ??? thanks ford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19490	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Can I salvage these ???

Combining bleach and ammonia can result in the release of chlorine gas, an extremely toxic substance.  I'd strongly recommend against this unless you're looking for a Darwin Award.  John B. Allyn From: "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:24:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ???   To kill the odor, use the old book method. Buy a couple of boxes of dryer softener sheets , place the cars in a sound cardboard carton that has a few times the room as just the cars need. Separate one box of dryer sheets and put them and the cars into the card board box. Close up the box and let it sit for a week or two. Check the result and repeat if needed. As for killing the mold, I'm thinking of going extreme. Get two empty margarine or similar tubs. Put the moldy cars in a decent card board box and set it in the end of the yard so that the breeze is blowing out of the yard, if you have neighbors go for the middle of the yard place one of the tubs in the bottom of the box. Get any pets or people out of the yard. Get out a bottle of chlorine bleach and a bottle of household ammonia. Open one of the bottles and fill another margarine tub to less than half full and pour that into the tub that is in the box. Cap that bottle and put it aside. Making certain that the yards still empty, open the other bottle, holding the out of box tub well away from you, half fill the tub....... Use a fresh, third tub if you can... Just buy some 'tipper-wear type of small bowl and get at least three of them. At this point you are ready to gently pour the half bowl of liquid into the waiting bowl inside the box...... You are about to make poison gas and should hold your breath as you pour part b Ito part a inside the box...... Then quickly step away while not taking a breath. When you are several feet away breathe. Just leave the box alone for an hour or more......... That should kill the mold...... I dont 'know what would be safer to use. But the job will be well done. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19491	From: ho_in_hancock	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

I have used all kinds of files in my modeling and in making a living (Machinist) for more than forty years. I clean them with a File-Card and use an Xacto blade to slide between the teeth and disloge anything that's left. I would not use an open flame on a file and here's the reason why: The typical file is made of hardened and tempered steel and each tooth is formed to a sharp knife edge, like a wood chisel. An open flame will overheat those sharp edges within seconds and affect the temper, which will lead to premature dulling. A few seconds with a File-Card, followed by a few more seconds pushing out the stubborn stuff with a blade, will let your files last a lifetime. Many of mine are 40+ years old. For those not in the know, let me give just two pieces of advice: Always lift the file off the surface on each back stroke and when using a File-Card, brush only in the direction of the teeth. Happy filing. Ken Robbins Hancock, NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19492	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

All that sounds reasonable. If you poke around your supermarket or "Big Box" (Lowe's or Home Depot) or even your local hardware store, you will find product labeled something like "Mold and Mildew Remover" I suspect that any of them would do the job. Mildew is a fungus, and its roots can really go deep into wood and cardboard. Baking might work, followed by a gentle spray of one of the "removers". Exposure to direct sunlight can also help - mildew likes its environment to be dark and moist. Mike On 5/24/2012 2:11 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote: > At the risk of being told to shut up when you are guessing, and I am, I > am going to write up what I would do: > > > The boxes probably smell the worst, followed by the raw wood parts, and > then the painted wood. The metal should not smell very badly. > > I would bake the boxes at 100 to 200 degrees F for a couple of hours to > dry them out. If the glue joints open, use LePage's mucilage (if you can > find it) to reglue them. Then spray them with Fabreze. I'd do the same > with the raw wood. > > I am not sure I'd want to do the same with the roof and floor. They > might warp. Perhaps cleaning them with a rag moistened with a solution > of Clorox chlorine bleach will do the job. It might take a few wipings. > Then wipe with a clean rag moistened with the Fabreze to cut the > chlorine smell if you find it offensive. > > On the painted metal, the bleach shouldn't cause a problem, BUT test it > out first. Maybe the Fabreze alone will do the job with the painted metal. > > Okay, guys, OPEN FIRE! > > Walter > > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:40 AM, ford35lh <ford35lh@... > <mailto:ford35lh@...>> wrote: > > __ > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19493	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

Good to know ken.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: ho_in_hancock <kenrobbins39@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: cleaning needle files   I have used all kinds of files in my modeling and in making a living (Machinist) for more than forty years. I clean them with a File-Card and use an Xacto blade to slide between the teeth and disloge anything that's left. I would not use an open flame on a file and here's the reason why: The typical file is made of hardened and tempered steel and each tooth is formed to a sharp knife edge, like a wood chisel. An open flame will overheat those sharp edges within seconds and affect the temper, which will lead to premature dulling. A few seconds with a File-Card, followed by a few more seconds pushing out the stubborn stuff with a blade, will let your files last a lifetime. Many of mine are 40+ years old. For those not in the know, let me give just two pieces of advice: Always lift the file off the surface on each back stroke and when using a File-Card, brush only in the direction of the teeth. Happy filing. Ken Robbins Hancock, NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19494	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Thus the several times I warn throughout the post......... As where I write, "You are about to make poison gas "...... Never read just part of the instructions! Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2012, at 3:07 PM, john.allyn@... wrote: Combining bleach and ammonia can result in the release of chlorine gas, an extremely toxic substance.  I'd strongly recommend against this unless you're looking for a Darwin Award.  John B. Allyn From: "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:24:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ???   To kill the odor, use the old book method. Buy a couple of boxes of dryer softener sheets , place the cars in a sound cardboard carton that has a few times the room as just the cars need. Separate one box of dryer sheets and put them and the cars into the card board box. Close up the box and let it sit for a week or two. Check the result and repeat if needed. As for killing the mold, I'm thinking of going extreme. Get two empty margarine or similar tubs. Put the moldy cars in a decent card board box and set it in the end of the yard so that the breeze is blowing out of the yard, if you have neighbors go for the middle of the yard place one of the tubs in the bottom of the box. Get any pets or people out of the yard. Get out a bottle of chlorine bleach and a bottle of household ammonia. Open one of the bottles and fill another margarine tub to less than half full and pour that into the tub that is in the box. Cap that bottle and put it aside. Making certain that the yards still empty, open the other bottle, holding the out of box tub well away from you, half fill the tub....... Use a fresh, third tub if you can... Just buy some 'tipper-wear type of small bowl and get at least three of them. At this point you are ready to gently pour the half bowl of liquid into the waiting bowl inside the box...... You are about to make poison gas and should hold your breath as you pour part b Ito part a inside the box...... Then quickly step away while not taking a breath. When you are several feet away breathe. Just leave the box alone for an hour or more......... That should kill the mold...... I dont 'know what would be safer to use. But the job will be well done. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19495	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

On 5/24/2012 8:40 AM, ford35lh wrote: > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford > > > If the wood is too moldy, you can still buy Northeastern streamlined roof and floor stock and just make new parts. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19496	From: Alan	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Chlorine gas is so powerful it was used as a chemical warfare agent in World War I. This stuff can kill you. If it doesn't kill you, it can cause pneumonia and make you extremely sick. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > Combining bleach and ammonia can result in the release of chlorine gas, an extremely toxic substance.  I'd strongly recommend against this unless you're looking for a Darwin Award.  > > > John B. Allyn > ----- Original Message ----- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19497	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/24/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

I read the "instructions" in their entirety.  Great idea if you want to turn your back yard into a HAZMAT area.  John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:45:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Can I salvage these ???   Thus the several times I warn throughout the post......... As where I write, "You are about to make poison gas "...... Never read just part of the instructions! Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2012, at 3:07 PM, john.allyn@... wrote: Combining bleach and ammonia can result in the release of chlorine gas, an extremely toxic substance.  I'd strongly recommend against this unless you're looking for a Darwin Award.  John B. Allyn From: "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:24:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ???   To kill the odor, use the old book method. Buy a couple of boxes of dryer softener sheets , place the cars in a sound cardboard carton that has a few times the room as just the cars need. Separate one box of dryer sheets and put them and the cars into the card board box. Close up the box and let it sit for a week or two. Check the result and repeat if needed. As for killing the mold, I'm thinking of going extreme. Get two empty margarine or similar tubs. Put the moldy cars in a decent card board box and set it in the end of the yard so that the breeze is blowing out of the yard, if you have neighbors go for the middle of the yard place one of the tubs in the bottom of the box. Get any pets or people out of the yard. Get out a bottle of chlorine bleach and a bottle of household ammonia. Open one of the bottles and fill another margarine tub to less than half full and pour that into the tub that is in the box. Cap that bottle and put it aside. Making certain that the yards still empty, open the other bottle, holding the out of box tub well away from you, half fill the tub....... Use a fresh, third tub if you can... Just buy some 'tipper-wear type of small bowl and get at least three of them. At this point you are ready to gently pour the half bowl of liquid into the waiting bowl inside the box...... You are about to make poison gas and should hold your breath as you pour part b Ito part a inside the box...... Then quickly step away while not taking a breath. When you are several feet away breathe. Just leave the box alone for an hour or more......... That should kill the mold...... I dont 'know what would be safer to use. But the job will be well done. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19498	From: trainm7	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Mixing ammonia and bleach is NOT a good idea. Bleach only will kill the mildew but may not get rid of the odor. The best suggestion is Don Dellman`s idea buy new roof and floor stock in the end it may be a lot less work with better results. Ron High --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@...> wrote: > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > effecting them ??? > > thanks > ford >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19499	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: A Trip Down Memory Lane

While it might not be exactly considered as vintage, check out this weeks blog describing my latest nostalgic project.  It's a bit long because I go way back down memory lane for this one. http://www.cwrailman.com/blog.html Sometime you just have to do one of these. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19500	From: Mike	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

But where is the challenge to just replacing parts??? Making poison gas really shows the mold who is in charge! Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> wrote: > > Mixing ammonia and bleach is NOT a good idea. Bleach only will kill the mildew but may not get rid of the odor. The best suggestion is Don Dellman`s idea buy new roof and floor stock in the end it may be a lot less work with better results. > Ron High > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > > effecting them ??? > > > > thanks > > ford > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19501	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Actually, the bleach alone would kill the mold, so amonia isn't really needed!     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ???   But where is the challenge to just replacing parts??? Making poison gas really shows the mold who is in charge! Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> wrote: > > Mixing ammonia and bleach is NOT a good idea. Bleach only will kill the mildew but may not get rid of the odor. The best suggestion is Don Dellman`s idea buy new roof and floor stock in the end it may be a lot less work with better results. > Ron High > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > > effecting them ??? > > > > thanks > > ford > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19502	From: 23weldon	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Mike Bauers is a pretty creative guy with a good bit of practical technical background.  There are a few of us like him who can handle "extreme" techniques without anyone getting hurt and I think Mike is one of such.   For the rest a little fear is probably a good approach. That is why I hesitated suggesting muriatic acid for cleaning files.  That is one that requires a bit of understanding of metallurgy, chemistry and how to safely treat and dispose of the leftovers.   With respect to getting rid of the musty odor from the passenger cars and their boxes I'll relate how I handle that problem in old books I find at garage sales and eBay.   I have this steel box with a relatively tight lid that I can leave out in the hot sun for long periods.  A couple of weeks of this was usually enough to get rid of musty odors and maybe a month for cigarette smoke smells.  I never got around to measuring the temperature inside but I figure it was in the 160-170 range on summer days.  Obviously this won't work in a cold rainy climate.  Also the box I used has a good lid so I felt OK about leaving it out in the rain.  IMHO most steel toolboxes are not watertight enough for this kind of service. .................Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19503	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

which smells worse mildew or corpses? Alan From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ???   But where is the challenge to just replacing parts??? Making poison gas really shows the mold who is in charge! Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> wrote: > > Mixing ammonia and bleach is NOT a good idea. Bleach only will kill the mildew but may not get rid of the odor. The best suggestion is Don Dellman`s idea buy new roof and floor stock in the end it may be a lot less work with better results. > Ron High > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > > effecting them ??? > > > > thanks > > ford > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19504	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

An old .30 or .50 caliber ammo box might be perfect. It used to be that you could pick them up for a buck a piece, but now they have gotten more scarce and more expensive. I bolt them up to my farm tractors and use them for tool boxes. Mike On 5/25/2012 10:38 AM, 23weldon wrote: > With respect to getting rid of the musty odor from the passenger cars > and their boxes I'll relate how I handle that problem in old books I > find at garage sales and eBay. I have this steel box with a relatively > tight lid that I can leave out in the hot sun for long periods. A couple > of weeks of this was usually enough to get rid of musty odors and maybe > a month for cigarette smoke smells. I never got around to measuring the > temperature inside but I figure it was in the 160-170 range on summer > days. Obviously this won't work in a cold rainy climate. Also the box I > used has a good lid so I felt OK about leaving it out in the rain. IMHO > most steel toolboxes are not watertight enough for this kind of service. > .................Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19505	From: Mike	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

Well, if you would stop testing electrical outlets with a butter knife, you wouldn't have to worry so. You have to be sensible about any risky condition. We had a guy at work that tested a hissing LP tank to see if it was a gas leak on his fork lift. He found out in a fraction of a second that it was a gas leak. Mike Bauers on the phone.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: > > which smells worse mildew or corpses? > Alan > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:06 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ??? > > > >   > > But where is the challenge to just replacing parts??? > > Making poison gas really shows the mold who is in charge! > > Mike Bauers > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@> wrote: > > > > Mixing ammonia and bleach is NOT a good idea. Bleach only will kill the mildew but may not get rid of the odor. The best suggestion is Don Dellman`s idea buy new roof and floor stock in the end it may be a lot less work with better results. > > Ron High > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > > > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > > > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > > > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > > > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > > > > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > > > effecting them ??? > > > > > > thanks > > > ford > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19506	From: Mike	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

I meant to mention, and to keep some from guessing, the gas leak tester used his pocket lighter......... Yup, it sure was a LP gas leak that he wondered about..... MB --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Well, if you would stop testing electrical outlets with a butter knife, you wouldn't have to worry so. > > You have to be sensible about any risky condition. > > We had a guy at work that tested a hissing LP tank to see if it was a gas leak on his fork lift. He found out in a fraction of a second that it was a gas leak. > > Mike Bauers on the phone.... > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@> wrote: > > > > which smells worse mildew or corpses? > > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Mike <mwbauers55@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:06 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ??? > > > > > > > >   > > > > But where is the challenge to just replacing parts??? > > > > Making poison gas really shows the mold who is in charge! > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@> wrote: > > > > > > Mixing ammonia and bleach is NOT a good idea. Bleach only will kill the mildew but may not get rid of the odor. The best suggestion is Don Dellman`s idea buy new roof and floor stock in the end it may be a lot less work with better results. > > > Ron High > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ford35lh" <ford35lh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I was recently given a 10 car set of American Beauty cars. > > > > They were stored in someones basement too long and retain > > > > a serious musty odor,one roof section even has spots. > > > > Could be mildew,anyway,they are in a holding area in my garage. > > > > The metal sides appear good with no staining or rust. > > > > > > > > Is there anyway to deodorize these kits and kill what is > > > > effecting them ??? > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > ford > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19507	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2

Attachments : IMG_7974_1.JPG IMG_7973_1.JPG IMG_7972_1.JPG IMG_7971_1.JPG A week or two back I won a scratch built brass 4-6-2 Pacific on eBay. The main thing wrong was 3 sides of the cab and roof were partially hanging on the front of the cab. That piece was still partially attached to the boiler. I had a hard time getting it all back in place as everything was bent and busted seams. I finally got it back on. Since I intend to paint it I used my favorite epoxy ( dries gray ) to fill in depressions plus seams that were not perfect. After filing it will look much better and a lot like solder. The other thing needing filing on the engine/tender is a lot of extra solder especially on the top of the tender. Since I am cleaning all my files ( about 50 all shapes ) I can't do much finishing on the engine. I didn't find a file board at my local hardware store so I have to look elsewhere ( have to look in Micro Mark ) as this picking with an Exacto blade is very time consuming. Overall the builder did a nice job. After adding some handrail/stanchions front of engine, back and top of tender plus tender handrails and putting the steps back on where needed I expect a nice finished piece. Since it's a "scratch" brass engine it will have go on a shelf to join my fantasy group while I wait for a vintage piece to add to my collection. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19508	From: jay matz	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2 [4 Attachments]

Jim Next time you are going to file, Take chalk and fill the file with chalk, the file will stay cleaner. this works for solder, cast iron and any soft metals. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19509	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: cleaning needle files

I should have emphasized "carefully"... I do not heat them enough to raise the temperature of the files, only enough to melt the metal.  Once you develop an eye for it, it works great.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19510	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: clean files

To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware then Lowes. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19511	From: gary pardue	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

He Jim, If you see a Snap-On Tool truck or such, flag him down. They carry the file cards. Also if you have a local machine shop they might sell you one at cost. Even a good garage might get you one from their tool suppliers. I too like Micro Mark but their shipping is unreasonable just like Walthers. A big order---- O.K.---- but one small item at 8.95????? Gary --- On Fri, 5/25/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] clean files To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 25, 2012, 6:52 PM   To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware then Lowes. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19512	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Can I salvage these ???

I’m assuming that you “had” a guy means he went out the door, the window and probably some of him through the roof.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 12:00 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can I salvage these ???     Well, if you would stop testing electrical outlets with a butter knife, you wouldn't have to worry so. You have to be sensible about any risky condition. We had a guy at work that tested a hissing LP tank to see if it was a gas leak on his fork lift. He found out in a fraction of a second that it was a gas leak. Mike Bauers on the phone.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: > > which smells worse mildew or corpses? > Alan > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19513	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2 [4 Attachments]

Another masterful re-creation in progress by the master of re-creation.   Looking good Jim.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Scratch Built Brass 4-6-2 [4 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] A week or two back I won a scratch built brass 4-6-2 Pacific on eBay. The main thing wrong was 3 sides of the cab and roof were partially hanging on the front of the cab. That piece was still partially attached to the boiler. I had a hard time getting it all back in place as everything was bent and busted seams. I finally got it back on. Since I intend to paint it I used my favorite epoxy ( dries gray ) to fill in depressions plus seams that were not perfect. After filing it will look much better and a lot like solder. The other thing needing filing on the engine/tender is a lot of extra solder especially on the top of the tender. Since I am cleaning all my files ( about 50 all shapes ) I can't do much finishing on the engine. I didn't find a file board at my local hardware store so I have to look elsewhere ( have to look in Micro Mark ) as this picking with an Exacto blade is very time consuming. Overall the builder did a nice job. After adding some handrail/stanchions front of engine, back and top of tender plus tender handrails and putting the steps back on where needed I expect a nice finished piece. Since it's a "scratch" brass engine it will have go on a shelf to join my fantasy group while I wait for a vintage piece to add to my collection. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19514	From: Charles	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

Jim: Searching Loews online gets: "Kobalt 5" SpeedFit File CleanerItem #: 115376 | Model #: SF55412" for 4.97 if you search for "file cleaner" instead of "file card". Searching Ace Hardware online gets: "Nicholson® 8in General Purpose File Cleaner (21455) Price: $9.49|Item no: 21339", again, searching for "file cleaner" and not "file card". You should be able to find one locally at one of the above. If not... Various show at www.amazon.com including "Gorrilla #10 by Nicholson" for $4.71 and $3.12 shipping (to where I am in California, anyway). Ebay 380435767026 is some file card for $2.00 with $1.99 shipping. Don't know how good it is. Probably not very good quality. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > then Lowes. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19515	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

Hmm, strange.  The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each.  Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] clean files   To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware then Lowes. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19516	From: glutrain	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19517	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

When I used them on my files back in the 50s. They cost 245 cents but then gas was 17.9 a gallon Herb

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19518	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 5/25/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

That was supposed to be 25 cents. Shows you cant type 2 messages at once. Herb

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19519	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

I got mine at Ace for about what Vic paid for it, may be 4 - 5 years ago.  Unlike the Home Depot I had a helpful clerk who actually knew what a "file card" was.  John B. Allyn 3602 Hoods Hill Road Nashville TN 37215 615-298-2873 (H) 615-973-4280 (C) 615-297-3870 (Fax) From: "glutrain" <glutrain@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:43:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: clean files   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19520	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

If Home Depot has them for $4, that is a lot better price than the shipping costs from Micro Mark or any other mail order place. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glutrain@... Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 03:43:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: clean files   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19521	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

First I live in a very sparse area. My closest local Hobby Shops are an hour drive away in Allentown, Reading, Williamsport and Lebanon. Doesn't make much sense to drive that far and use gas. I tried True Value in closest town, 2 miles. None.   I tried Ace Hardware 4 miles away. None.  Home Depot and Lowes next at 16 and 18 miles. At this point I'm not worried about cost or saving maybe $5. Just so I can get one. Having spent time looking and using some gas I now will have to go further in the hopes of getting one after I call to see if they even have them.            If I would find one at Home Depot for $4 the $5 I might save is spent in gas.                                                          Jim H On 5/25/2012 11:43 PM, glutrain wrote:   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19522	From: Chris B	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FILE-CLEANER-FILE-CARD-LUTZ-10-/200553226510 $6.95 new on ebay, in the jeweler's tools section, with free shipping, it does lack the nylon brush side, but that part of the job is more easily accomplished on tiny files with a very stiff tooth brush.. Chris B. From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files                First I live in a very sparse area. My closest local Hobby Shops are an hour drive away in Allentown, Reading, Williamsport and Lebanon. Doesn't make much sense to drive that far and use gas. I tried True Value in closest town, 2 miles. None.   I tried Ace Hardware 4 miles away. None.  Home Depot and Lowes next at 16 and 18 miles. At this point I'm not worried about cost or saving maybe $5. Just so I can get one. Having spent time looking and using some gas I now will have to go further in the hopes of getting one after I call to see if they even have them.            If I would find one at Home Depot for $4 the $5 I might save is spent in gas.                                                          Jim H On 5/25/2012 11:43 PM, glutrain wrote:   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19523	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

Well, the shipping is free for the one on eBay.   Jim, Elliott’s Ace here in Milwaukee stocks them for $7.49! It’s been years since I last got any. Really hard to believe prices these days. But, after doing a Yahoo search, that’s a decent price nowadays.   I’d happily get you one or as many as you want and mail them to you. Postage would be $4.90, maybe less if I can send them 1st class. And you’d save gas.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:27 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: jimheck@... Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files     http://www.ebay.com/itm/FILE-CLEANER-FILE-CARD-LUTZ-10-/200553226510   $6.95 new on ebay, in the jeweler's tools section, with free shipping,   it does lack the nylon brush side, but that part of the job is more easily accomplished on tiny files with a very stiff tooth brush..   Chris B.   From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files                  First I live in a very sparse area. My closest local Hobby Shops are an hour drive away in Allentown, Reading, Williamsport and Lebanon. Doesn't make much sense to drive that far and use gas. I tried True Value in closest town, 2 miles. None.   I tried Ace Hardware 4 miles away. None.  Home Depot and Lowes next at 16 and 18 miles. At this point I'm not worried about cost or saving maybe $5. Just so I can get one. Having spent time looking and using some gas I now will have to go further in the hopes of getting one after I call to see if they even have them.            If I would find one at Home Depot for $4 the $5 I might save is spent in gas.                                                          Jim H On 5/25/2012 11:43 PM, glutrain wrote:   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19524	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

Chris , John,       Thanks for the info. I will look around here. Hopefully my wife will want to go shopping at Walmart and the Home Depot is there.       John      If I don't find one soon I will take you up on your offer. till then I'll do some filing on the engine wit the ones I've picked clean with the Exacto knife.                                                 Jim H On 5/26/2012 12:09 PM, John Hagen wrote:   Well, the shipping is free for the one on eBay.   Jim, Elliott’s Ace here in Milwaukee stocks them for $7.49! It’s been years since I last got any. Really hard to believe prices these days. But, after doing a Yahoo search, that’s a decent price nowadays.   I’d happily get you one or as many as you want and mail them to you. Postage would be $4.90, maybe less if I can send them 1st class. And you’d save gas.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:27 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: jimheck@... Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files     http://www.ebay.com/itm/FILE-CLEANER-FILE-CARD-LUTZ-10-/200553226510   $6.95 new on ebay, in the jeweler's tools section, with free shipping,   it does lack the nylon brush side, but that part of the job is more easily accomplished on tiny files with a very stiff tooth brush..   Chris B.   From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files                  First I live in a very sparse area. My closest local Hobby Shops are an hour drive away in Allentown, Reading, Williamsport and Lebanon. Doesn't make much sense to drive that far and use gas. I tried True Value in closest town, 2 miles. None.   I tried Ace Hardware 4 miles away. None.  Home Depot and Lowes next at 16 and 18 miles. At this point I'm not worried about cost or saving maybe $5. Just so I can get one. Having spent time looking and using some gas I now will have to go further in the hopes of getting one after I call to see if they even have them.            If I would find one at Home Depot for $4 the $5 I might save is spent in gas.                                                          Jim H On 5/25/2012 11:43 PM, glutrain wrote:   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19525	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Ordered Two

I ordered two file boards at the eBay number 380435767026 that someone gave me. At $2.00 each BUY IT NOW and $1.99 Shipping. Guess I'll find out if any good. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19526	From: John Hagen	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: Re: clean files

That’s fine.   Just remember the offer stands.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files     Chris , John,       Thanks for the info. I will look around here. Hopefully my wife will want to go shopping at Walmart and the Home Depot is there.       John      If I don't find one soon I will take you up on your offer. till then I'll do some filing on the engine wit the ones I've picked clean with the Exacto knife.                                                 Jim H On 5/26/2012 12:09 PM, John Hagen wrote:   Well, the shipping is free for the one on eBay.   Jim, Elliott’s Ace here in Milwaukee stocks them for $7.49! It’s been years since I last got any. Really hard to believe prices these days. But, after doing a Yahoo search, that’s a decent price nowadays.   I’d happily get you one or as many as you want and mail them to you. Postage would be $4.90, maybe less if I can send them 1st class. And you’d save gas.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:27 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: jimheck@... Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files     http://www.ebay.com/itm/FILE-CLEANER-FILE-CARD-LUTZ-10-/200553226510   $6.95 new on ebay, in the jeweler's tools section, with free shipping,   it does lack the nylon brush side, but that part of the job is more easily accomplished on tiny files with a very stiff tooth brush..   Chris B.   From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: clean files                  First I live in a very sparse area. My closest local Hobby Shops are an hour drive away in Allentown, Reading, Williamsport and Lebanon. Doesn't make much sense to drive that far and use gas. I tried True Value in closest town, 2 miles. None.   I tried Ace Hardware 4 miles away. None.  Home Depot and Lowes next at 16 and 18 miles. At this point I'm not worried about cost or saving maybe $5. Just so I can get one. Having spent time looking and using some gas I now will have to go further in the hopes of getting one after I call to see if they even have them.            If I would find one at Home Depot for $4 the $5 I might save is spent in gas.                                                          Jim H On 5/25/2012 11:43 PM, glutrain wrote:   Is it more appropriate or is it more ironic for a model railroader to find his file card at Home Depot for about $4.00? don H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmm, strange. The last time I bought File cards at Ace Hardware, I don't think they cost $2.00 each. Kind of strange the local hardware doesn't have them, it is a regular item at "hardware" stores. > Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jimheck@... > Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 18:52:22 -0400 > Subject: [vintageHO] clean files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all who sent suggestions about how to clean small files. > > Thank You. I especially appreciate those who said use chalk when files > > are cleaned as it makes it easier to clean then them next time. > > > > My local hardware store doesn't have file boards. Micro Mark > > has them for $8.00 but wants $8.95 for shipping. Will try Ace Hardware > > then Lowes. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19527	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Memorial Day & Jim H

Hello everyone! I just talked to Jim H. He asked me to let everyone know he will be off line until ~Friday. He had a bad storm last night that knocked out his Internet. His provider wait it will not be able to get him up and running until then. He wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy Memorial Day! Sean Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19528	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: Memorial Day & Jim H

He'll have some down time to clean those files! John B. Allyn From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:21:07 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Memorial Day & Jim H   Hello everyone! I just talked to Jim H. He asked me to let everyone know he will be off line until ~Friday. He had a bad storm last night that knocked out his Internet. His provider wait it will not be able to get him up and running until then. He wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy Memorial Day! Sean Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19529	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Hello Group,   I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws.   It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else.   Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here.   Thank you in advance.   Tod Dwyer (Ohio)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19530	From: Tom Hare	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Yes they did, it is an Ulrich.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hello Group,   I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws.   It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else.   Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here.   Thank you in advance.   Tod Dwyer (Ohio)  =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19531	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Hi Tom,   Well that was quick. Thanks. I have never seen them before. Were they marketed for a long time?   Tod   --- On Mon, 5/28/12, Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: From: Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 1:55 PM   Yes they did, it is an Ulrich.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hello Group,   I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws.   It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else.   Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here.   Thank you in advance.   Tod Dwyer (Ohio)  =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19532	From: Tom Hare	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Hi, probably for as long as Ulrich made stuff. Being 65 feet I think a lot of people shyer away from them. They do pop up on eBay fairly often.  Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hi Tom,   Well that was quick. Thanks. I have never seen them before. Were they marketed for a long time?   Tod   --- On Mon, 5/28/12, Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: From: Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 1:55 PM   Yes they did, it is an Ulrich.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hello Group,   I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws.   It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else.   Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here.   Thank you in advance.   Tod Dwyer (Ohio)  = =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19533	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Didn't Railmaster make a 65 mill gondola in the 1946 - 1950 time frame?  Ulrich made a 53' war emergency gon and a GS drop bottom gon; I don't remember their making anything longer..  John B. Allyn From: "Tom Hare" <jodanjackkayla@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 1:02:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola   Hi, probably for as long as Ulrich made stuff. Being 65 feet I think a lot of people shyer away from them. They do pop up on eBay fairly often.  Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hi Tom,   Well that was quick. Thanks. I have never seen them before. Were they marketed for a long time?   Tod   --- On Mon, 5/28/12, Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: From: Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 1:55 PM   Yes they did, it is an Ulrich.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hello Group,   I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws.   It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else.   Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here.   Thank you in advance.   Tod Dwyer (Ohio)  = =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19534	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

On 5/28/2012 1:02 PM, Tom Hare wrote: Hi, probably for as long as Ulrich made stuff. Being 65 feet I think a lot of people shyer away from them. They do pop up on eBay fairly often.  Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hi Tom,   Well that was quick. Thanks. I have never seen them before. Were they marketed for a long time?   Tod   --- On Mon, 5/28/12, Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: From: Tom Hare <jodanjackkayla@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 1:55 PM   Yes they did, it is an Ulrich.  Tom Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote:   Hello Group,   I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws.   It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else.   Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here.   Thank you in advance.   Tod Dwyer (Ohio)  = I wouldn't be real quick to jump to the conclusion that it's an Ulrich without seeing a picture. This is an Ulrich   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1934384343/pic/568348349/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc    http://tinyurl.com/d2kwqk5 Reason I say this, from the description of the construction it COULD be a Railmaster.  These ARE rare.   http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IL3DT82cN1VfgS8WOkGTdVcp4ZZFNDcp191JULrxHYRJsrohNuL7Eoy0k4msjCD4pKIeZlGDTZvnI1WsWKRYiA/V%20List%20Railmaster%20cars.xls   http://tinyurl.com/bvupbph Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19535	From: erieberk	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Tod, What you have here appears to be a Railmaster model. While Ulrich produced some long gondolas, they never produced one reaching 65' in length. Ulrich's maximum size for a gondola was their 52' composite gondolas. Your description of assembly seems to match Railmaster; they used three screws to attach the main frame to the wood floor -- down the length of the centersill. These screws were to be filed flat on the top side of the wood floor. They also used four escutcheon pins to attach the cast sides to the wood floor. Their stirrups (steps) were not cast on, as were Ulrich's. WHENEVER anyone asks about a model that is mysterious to them, they should ALWAYS state the Roadname and the Car Side Number, except of course for undecorated sides. While there were instances where different manufacturers used the same Road Number for their modela as other manufacturers -- such as in the recent discussion here on Mantua and Redball (and others?) Gerber reefer sides -- most often, a manufacturer used different road numbers for road names that were also offered by other manufacturers. This info would be instrumental in enabling us to identify models that otherwise may remain a mystery. Ulrich's line of 52' Composite Gondolas included: ATSF, PRR, RI, N&W, LV, NYC, GTW and CNJ. Railmaster's line of 65' Mill Gondolas included: D&RGW, ATSF, SP, B&O, DL&W, WM, ERIE, Southern, NKP and RDG. Only ATSF was used by both of these manufacturers for their exceptionally long gondolas, and there was a 13' difference between their lengths. In 1979, Walthers -- who took over the Ulrich line earlier -- produced both Pioneer (PIOX) and Indiana Harbor Belt 52' Composite Gondolas, but they were not original Ulrich (even though, still collectible). Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > > Hello Group, > > I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws. > > It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here. > > Thank you in advance. > > Tod Dwyer (Ohio) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19536	From: Riverboy	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Hi Ray.   Your mention of Railmaster sounds like almost a perfect match, however, the steps do appear to be cast with the sides, and the screws do not appear to have penetrated the inside of the wood floor, but that might simply be the matter of using shorter screws. My car is Santa Fe #170970. If you need any additional information or some photos, let me know and I will provide it.   I didn't think I had ever seen such a gondola from Ulrich, just the 52' composite version (of which there was a CNJ #86721 in the same collection).   Thanks.   Tod   --- On Tue, 5/29/12, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: From: erieberk <erieberk@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 7:57 AM   Tod, What you have here appears to be a Railmaster model. While Ulrich produced some long gondolas, they never produced one reaching 65' in length. Ulrich's maximum size for a gondola was their 52' composite gondolas. Your description of assembly seems to match Railmaster; they used three screws to attach the main frame to the wood floor -- down the length of the centersill. These screws were to be filed flat on the top side of the wood floor. They also used four escutcheon pins to attach the cast sides to the wood floor. Their stirrups (steps) were not cast on, as were Ulrich's. WHENEVER anyone asks about a model that is mysterious to them, they should ALWAYS state the Roadname and the Car Side Number, except of course for undecorated sides. While there were instances where different manufacturers used the same Road Number for their modela as other manufacturers -- such as in the recent discussion here on Mantua and Redball (and others?) Gerber reefer sides -- most often, a manufacturer used different road numbers for road names that were also offered by other manufacturers. This info would be instrumental in enabling us to identify models that otherwise may remain a mystery. Ulrich's line of 52' Composite Gondolas included: ATSF, PRR, RI, N&W, LV, NYC, GTW and CNJ. Railmaster's line of 65' Mill Gondolas included: D&RGW, ATSF, SP, B&O, DL&W, WM, ERIE, Southern, NKP and RDG. Only ATSF was used by both of these manufacturers for their exceptionally long gondolas, and there was a 13' difference between their lengths. In 1979, Walthers -- who took over the Ulrich line earlier -- produced both Pioneer (PIOX) and Indiana Harbor Belt 52' Composite Gondolas, but they were not original Ulrich (even though, still collectible). Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > > Hello Group, > > I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws. > > It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here. > > Thank you in advance. > > Tod Dwyer (Ohio) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19537	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Hi Tod,   That Santa Fe number matches the Railmaster one.  I did not have a car number for the CNJ Ulrich gon.  Thanks for listing it.   Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Riverboy Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:21 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola     Hi Ray.   Your mention of Railmaster sounds like almost a perfect match, however, the steps do appear to be cast with the sides, and the screws do not appear to have penetrated the inside of the wood floor, but that might simply be the matter of using shorter screws. My car is Santa Fe #170970. If you need any additional information or some photos, let me know and I will provide it.   I didn't think I had ever seen such a gondola from Ulrich, just the 52' composite version (of which there was a CNJ #86721 in the same collection).   Thanks.   Tod   --- On Tue, 5/29/12, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: From: erieberk <erieberk@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 7:57 AM   Tod, What you have here appears to be a Railmaster model. While Ulrich produced some long gondolas, they never produced one reaching 65' in length. Ulrich's maximum size for a gondola was their 52' composite gondolas. Your description of assembly seems to match Railmaster; they used three screws to attach the main frame to the wood floor -- down the length of the centersill. These screws were to be filed flat on the top side of the wood floor. They also used four escutcheon pins to attach the cast sides to the wood floor. Their stirrups (steps) were not cast on, as were Ulrich's. WHENEVER anyone asks about a model that is mysterious to them, they should ALWAYS state the Roadname and the Car Side Number, except of course for undecorated sides. While there were instances where different manufacturers used the same Road Number for their modela as other manufacturers -- such as in the recent discussion here on Mantua and Redball (and others?) Gerber reefer sides -- most often, a manufacturer used different road numbers for road names that were also offered by other manufacturers. This info would be instrumental in enabling us to identify models that otherwise may remain a mystery. Ulrich's line of 52' Composite Gondolas included: ATSF, PRR , RI , N&W, LV , NYC, GTW and CNJ. Railmaster's line of 65' Mill Gondolas included: D&RGW, ATSF, SP, B&O, DL&W, WM, ERIE , Southern, NKP and RDG. Only ATSF was used by both of these manufacturers for their exceptionally long gondolas, and there was a 13' difference between their lengths. In 1979, Walthers -- who took over the Ulrich line earlier -- produced both Pioneer (PIOX) and Indiana Harbor Belt 52' Composite Gondolas, but they were not original Ulrich (even though, still collectible). Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > > Hello Group, > > I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws. > > It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here. > > Thank you in advance. > > Tod Dwyer ( Ohio ) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19538	From: erieberk	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola

Tod, Your Railmaster 65' ATSF Mill Gondola #170970 is specific for this manufacturer. Your MILL Gondola IS a Railmaster model -- red with white lettering. As for the steps, sorry about the confusion. I've never noticed this before, but in looking through more of my Railmaster Mill Gon kits, I notice that some of the sides (new, still in wrapper) don't have cast-on steps -- with the instructions indicating to afix the supplied wire ones -- yet others do have cast-on steps. The first one I pulled out this morning did not have cast-on steps, so I assumed none did (which is what I reported to you). Incidentally, my Railmaster ATSF (#170970) 65' Mill Gon sides (also new in wrapper) do not have cast-on steps. At some point during Railmaster's production of these sides, it's noted they either dropped the cast-on steps or added them into the molds, but it's not clear when the switch was made, nor in which direction. The instruction sheet is not dated, and the same instruction sheet having wire grab-ons and steps is included in all my Mill Gondola kits, whether they have cast-on steps or not. That the instruction sheet having wire steps to be added came with all 65' Mill Gons, it's logical to assume that this was the first version -- the plans were never changed when the molds were. For the Reporting Numbers of most of the other Railmaster car sides, I've compiled a list of them which can be found in the Files. BTW, your Ulrich 52' CNJ Composite Hopper #86721 is a car side number offered by Walthers when they tool over the Ulrich line. In taking a quick glance at one of the first "Reporting Mark" magazines (by HO SC&H SIG) I just now happened to pull out, Dave Spanagel states that the original Ulrich number for this car is #76721. I would have to check my collection to verify that. Might just be a typo on Spanagel's account, and Walthers may have continued with Ulrich's original number (as #86721 ?) without change. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray. > Â > Your mention of Railmaster sounds like almost a perfect match, however, the steps do appear to be cast with the sides, and the screws do not appear to have penetrated the inside of the wood floor, but that might simply be the matter of using shorter screws. My car is Santa Fe #170970. If you need any additional information or some photos, let me know and I will provide it. > Â > I didn't think I had ever seen such a gondola from Ulrich, just the 52' composite version (of which there was a CNJ #86721 in the same collection). > Â > Thanks. > Â > Tod > > > Â > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/29/12, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > From: erieberk <erieberk@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unknown Craftsman Mill Gondola > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 7:57 AM > > > > Â > > > > Tod, > > What you have here appears to be a Railmaster model. While Ulrich produced some long gondolas, they never produced one reaching 65' in length. Ulrich's maximum size for a gondola was their 52' composite gondolas. > > Your description of assembly seems to match Railmaster; they used three screws to attach the main frame to the wood floor -- down the length of the centersill. These screws were to be filed flat on the top side of the wood floor. They also used four escutcheon pins to attach the cast sides to the wood floor. Their stirrups (steps) were not cast on, as were Ulrich's. > > WHENEVER anyone asks about a model that is mysterious to them, they should ALWAYS state the Roadname and the Car Side Number, except of course for undecorated sides. While there were instances where different manufacturers used the same Road Number for their modela as other manufacturers -- such as in the recent discussion here on Mantua and Redball (and others?) Gerber reefer sides -- most often, a manufacturer used different road numbers for road names that were also offered by other manufacturers. This info would be instrumental in enabling us to identify models that otherwise may remain a mystery. > > Ulrich's line of 52' Composite Gondolas included: > > ATSF, PRR, RI, N&W, LV, NYC, GTW and CNJ. > > Railmaster's line of 65' Mill Gondolas included: > > D&RGW, ATSF, SP, B&O, DL&W, WM, ERIE, Southern, NKP and RDG. > > Only ATSF was used by both of these manufacturers for their exceptionally long gondolas, and there was a 13' difference between their lengths. > > In 1979, Walthers -- who took over the Ulrich line earlier -- produced both Pioneer (PIOX) and Indiana Harbor Belt 52' Composite Gondolas, but they were not original Ulrich (even though, still collectible). > > Ray Wetzel > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@> wrote: > > > > Hello Group, > > > > I acquired a group of assorted freight cars. I have identified all but one of them. It is a 65' mill gondola with die cast sides, ends, and underframe, but a wood floor, which the sides are "pinned" to. The underframe is secured with three screws. > > > > It almost looks to have an Ulrich construction style to it. Did they ever make such a car, or is it from someone else. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone needs photos, I can take some and post them on here. > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Tod Dwyer (Ohio) > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19539	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Computer Fixed

I got the new DSL modem to replace the old one that must have been taken out by our first hug rain storm ( over 5" with lots of lightning in under 3hours ). I can now get back on. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19540	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Computer Fixed

I have no experience with DSL modems, but I do with regular modems and routers. I found anything by LinkSys is junk, as far as longevity. One year, 5 days, and POOF! Last replacement was a d-link, and it's been longer than that....and I've got surge protectors everwhere that supposedly stop that coming in the power or signal line. Dave > I got the new DSL modem to replace the old one that must have > been taken out by our first hug rain storm ( over 5" with lots of > lightning in under 3hours ). I can now get back on. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19541	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Arbour PRR A-3

Attachments : IMG_7978.JPG IMG_7976.JPG IMG_7975.JPG Yes I'm back in business. Received a new DSL Modem after the rainstorm ( 5" and lots of lightning in under 3 Hrs.) took out the old one. These are pictures of my Arbour PRR A-3 shifter. I don't do much about Arbour because they came out later then the years my vintage collection covers. This is a neat little engine but I have heard a lot of the bigger engines have major problems and were hard to assemble. Getting them running is another thing but I have seen a few of the bigger Arbour engines running like the Allegheny but not many. Excuse the dust on the engine. The collection has to many items in it to keep dusting everything. After I send this I will show you my first run Winton Allegheny. Pretty hard to build and get running but I finished mine and with the big O gauge motor and the front of the boiler a solid piece of brass the can pull. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19542	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Computer Fixed

I have also found Linksys to be problematic. I own a computer shop, and have 10 years as a professional under my belt, and many more years before that aside. They are owned by Cisco now, and some of their latest products do seem to be a bit better. Also, as you have DSL, which is a digital signal on top of an analog phone line, be sure your surge protectors have capability to suppress surges through the phone line too. Up in North Central Wisconsin, where the Boy Scout camp I volunteer at is, our ranger's computer got hit through the phone line. He was on dial up internet, and a surge got him through the phone line and trashed his internal dialup modem. At least the rest of the computer was fine. Some sure protectors will also do co-ax line for cable internet users too. Glad to see you back, Jim! Looking forward to your next projects! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/30/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Computer Fixed To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 12:29 PM   I have no experience with DSL modems, but I do with regular modems and routers. I found anything by LinkSys is junk, as far as longevity. One year, 5 days, and POOF! Last replacement was a d-link, and it's been longer than that....and I've got surge protectors everwhere that supposedly stop that coming in the power or signal line. Dave > I got the new DSL modem to replace the old one that must have > been taken out by our first hug rain storm ( over 5" with lots of > lightning in under 3hours ). I can now get back on. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19543	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Winton Allegheny

Attachments : IMG_7982.JPG IMG_7981.JPG IMG_7979.JPG This is my Winton Allegheny and not the lost wax version. It's been seen by others before but lots of new members might enjoy seeing one finished. While I've seen a few assembled and running most times they are found partially assembled and the builder gave up. I did not build mine at one sitting. It takes a number of hours to complete. I actually put it aside partially built and at the third try I finally completed it .It can get on your nerves. It is articulated and works like the real engines. I actually added a small T coming down from the boiler and attached it to the front truck but using a slot to make it movable. This is not part of the plan. The reason for this is so when you pick up the engine the front truck doesn't hang downward looking like it might break off. I had a little extra fun as a few of the small valve gear parts were missing. I had to copy them using a piece of sheet brass , shape them to match the originals and drill the holes. Again very time consuming. I also was missing the original tender trucks and used Arbour replacements I bought till I found the original Winton trucks which are on it now. They came in a number of pieces and you assembled them from a plan. I don't ever intend to paint it as that would hide a lot of work done. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19544	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: My mistake

Must apologies for two messages with attachments that were to go to Yardbird trains ( Arbour PRR A-3 and Winton Allegheny My Mistake Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19545	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: File Boards came

> > > > The two file boards I won on eBay came today. They are made > by Osburn and work real nice. $2.00 each and $2.00 shipping. Lots of > clean files now to really start filing on my latest project. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19546	From: Ed	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: File Boards came

Osborn is an old American company that makes good professional level stuff. I searched and found what looks like the same eBay buy it now auction. So a "me too" on this. Thanks, Jim ............ Ed Weldon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:> The two file boards I won on eBay came today. They are made > by Osborn and work real nice. $2.00 each and $2.00 shipping. Lots of > clean files now to really start filing on my latest project. > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19547	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Scratch brass rebuilt project

Attachments : IMG_7988.JPG IMG_7986.JPG IMG_7983.JPG Now that I got the file boards I now have lots of files to work on the scratch built 4-6-2 Pacific I bought on eBay. I had to rip off all ladders, steps and handrails so I can replace them. When I get the tender "squared away" as I have to start filling in dips and joints with epoxy. Then I will add new ladder, steps and vertical handrails. I intend to put a U shaped row of stanchions with handrail on the back,top of the tender for looks but I have lots of filing to do. You can see the solder on the tender top needs to be smoothed along with the front of the tender. The filling, filing and smoothing will take a lot of time but hopefully not going anywhere. I thought after I filed and smooth sanded my pre war Conover 2-10-2 and the early brass Walthers HH600 that I wouldn't be putting all that time on another engine. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19548	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: File Boards came

Ed,       The number on eBay where I bought those  file cards/boards is 380435767026 and "Buy It Now". Problem is he had 18 for sale and now know available. I also saw an add where there were being sold for $3 each and $3 shipping but not the same guy.                 Jim H On 6/1/2012 5:35 PM, Ed wrote:   Osborn is an old American company that makes good professional level stuff. I searched and found what looks like the same eBay buy it now auction. So a "me too" on this. Thanks, Jim ............ Ed Weldon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:> The two file boards I won on eBay came today. They are made > by Osborn and work real nice. $2.00 each and $2.00 shipping. Lots of > clean files now to really start filing on my latest project. > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19549	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Fwd: Mantua Mogul

Attachments : IMG_7990.JPG A few weeks ago there was discussion about the shape of the boiler on the Mantua 8 Ball. I had what I thought was a Mantua 8 Ball ( top of picture ) sitting on a shelf here for 45 + years. It was one of my first vintage engines and also one of my first paint jobs. You can see on the tender the Lehigh Valley decal the edges were never worked on. I started buying Micro Scale which were easier to hide. Due to the discussion I found out it was modified engine with a straight boiler and a larger tender that I detailed a extra Now thanks to good friend Sean N, I bought a Mogul from him that is the right boiler and tender. The engine is in great shape and a quick look I think I see a 6 volt motor in it . I'll have to check that out latter. I will eventually have to repaint it and fix a few small things. I'm glad the discussion showed me I was wrong and straightened it out. I will keep the modified engine and add it to my Fantasy Collection. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19550	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: 8 Ball

Hey Jim: Thanks for that addition. I hope to finish mine one day.... -Gareth -- "Work with your own hands … that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing" -- I Thess. 4:11b-12

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19551	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul

Attachments : IMG_7998.JPG IMG_7997.JPG I decided since I was still filling and filing on the scratch built brass Pacific that I would start working on the original Mantua Mogul I got of Sean N. Since it was in very nice shape I thought for a little change of pace I would strip the paint which needed some work. I got the tender done and have the frame and boiler/cab in the "soup". A quick first glance from the back of the cab I thought it was a 6 volt motor but it is a 12 volt motor that "somebody" ground the top magnet round back and sides which gave the back end an odd look or is this normal for clearance in the Mogul ???? Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19552	From: jbark76	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul

I have a mogul with the back of the motor rounded also. Another minor difference I noticed is in the tenders for the 8-Ball and Belle of the 80s. The mogul has handrails in the front only and the Belle has handrails in front and back. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19553	From: takefive247	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul

I have two Belle Engines. One with a squared motor magnet and the other with a rounded top. And I have an 8 Belle with the rounded top but slightly different then the Belle with the rounded top.Is that indicate a difference in the motor voltage. Jim what do you use for your "soup" to remove the paint? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I decided since I was still filling and filing on the > scratch built brass Pacific that I would start working on the original > Mantua Mogul I got of Sean N. Since it was in very nice shape I thought > for a little change of pace I would strip the paint which needed some > work. I got the tender done and have the frame and boiler/cab in the > "soup". A quick first glance from the back of the cab I thought it was a > 6 volt motor but it is a 12 volt motor that "somebody" ground the top > magnet round back and sides which gave the back end an odd look or is > this normal for clearance in the Mogul ???? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19554	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Small Mantua 6 volt motor

Attachments : IMG_8013.JPG IMG_8012.JPG IMG_8010.JPG Bill, I'm sending a picture of the small Mantua 6 volt motor which you can run for a short time on 8 volts. This motor was for small 0-4-0 types like the Goat, Busy Bee and up to the Belle and Mogul. You can see the shape of the top part of the motor which when I first looked in the cab and saw the top part it made me think 6 volt at first. The paper work states that the warranty void if run on any voltage over 8. The motor I have in the Mogul is 12 volt after I got it apart to see ( eyes bad ). I assume yours are 12 volt too. As for the "soup" it's just brake fluid. It cleans about 90% of the paints that are on older engine. Works on plastic with no problems for me. If the paint won't come off I buy paint remover ( the no fume type) and use gloves and after it might need a brass wire brush on metal items only. I then wash in soapy water and rinse in clean water. Let dry. If there are some corners or odd places where the paint is still attached I picked these places with a small awl or a pointed exacto knife. These pieces usually pick off easy if done in brake fluid. Jim H small mantua 6 volt motor

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19555	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Mantua Mogul [1 Attachment]

Jim-   Nice 8-Ball!  I notice it has the swing motion style tender trucks which indicates a 1950s production date.  I can't quite tell but it looks as if it may have a white nylon worm - another late production spotting feature.  And the nickle plated driver tires. If it is, it will have a 12 volt motor. Richard.     -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2012 12:16 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Mantua Mogul [1 Attachment] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] A few weeks ago there was discussion about the shape of the boiler on the Mantua 8 Ball. I had what I thought was a Mantua 8 Ball ( top of picture ) sitting on a shelf here for 45 + years. It was one of my first vintage engines and also one of my first paint jobs. You can see on the tender the Lehigh Valley decal the edges were never worked on. I started buying Micro Scale which were easier to hide. Due to the discussion I found out it was modified engine with a straight boiler and a larger tender that I detailed a extra Now thanks to good friend Sean N, I bought a Mogul from him that is the right boiler and tender. The engine is in great shape and a quick look I think I see a 6 volt motor in it . I'll have to check that out latter. I will eventually have to repaint it and fix a few small things. I'm glad the discussion showed me I was wrong and straightened it out. I will keep the modified engine and add it to my Fantasy Collection. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 1 of 1 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1046445664/item/list <*> IMG_7990.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19556	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul [2 Attachments]

Jim-   The rounded top of the motor frame is standard for Mantua small motors of this vintage.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 2:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua 8 Ball Mogul [2 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] I decided since I was still filling and filing on the scratch built brass Pacific that I would start working on the original Mantua Mogul I got of Sean N. Since it was in very nice shape I thought for a little change of pace I would strip the paint which needed some work. I got the tender done and have the frame and boiler/cab in the "soup". A quick first glance from the back of the cab I thought it was a 6 volt motor but it is a 12 volt motor that "somebody" ground the top magnet round back and sides which gave the back end an odd look or is this normal for clearance in the Mogul ???? Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 2 of 2 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1096225068/item/list <*> IMG_7997.JPG <*> IMG_7998.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19557	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul

Jeff-   An original instuction sheet verifies what you point out about the handrails on the Belle/8-Ball tender body.  One sheet served for both versions.   Richard.   -----Original Message----- From: jbark76 <jbark76@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 7:56 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul I have a mogul with the back of the motor rounded also. Another minor difference I noticed is in the tenders for the 8-Ball and Belle of the 80s. The mogul has handrails in the front only and the Belle has handrails in front and back. -Jeff Barker- ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19558	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul

I think the rounded top motor was meant to fit inside the Goat, but Mantua used it on all their small engines.  At some point in the 50s they redesigned the motor slightly and eliminated the rounded off frame.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: takefive247 <townline58@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 4, 2012 11:34 am Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 8 Ball Mogul I have two Belle Engines. One with a squared motor magnet and the other with a rounded top. And I have an 8 Belle with the rounded top but slightly different then the Belle with the rounded top.Is that indicate a difference in the motor voltage. Jim what do you use for your "soup" to remove the paint? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I decided since I was still filling and filing on the > scratch built brass Pacific that I would start working on the original > Mantua Mogul I got of Sean N. Since it was in very nice shape I thought > for a little change of pace I would strip the paint which needed some > work. I got the tender done and have the frame and boiler/cab in the > "soup". A quick first glance from the back of the cab I thought it was a > 6 volt motor but it is a 12 volt motor that "somebody" ground the top > magnet round back and sides which gave the back end an odd look or is > this normal for clearance in the Mogul ???? > > Jim H > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19559	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/5/2012
Subject: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.

Hi All! I purchased a car the other day that I had never seen before, then low and behold one turned up on eBay the same week! This one just sold by Dan's Train Depot (not mine): DTD - HO SCALE VINTAGE RED BALL #89 PRR LCL CONTAINER METAL WOOD CAR Mine does not have the box and is missing one of the containers and I was hoping maybe someone might have my container or one like it laying around in their scrap box somewhere. I do not expect to ever list/sell my car as it is the only one like it I have ever seen, so it would be nice to have it complete.  I will be more than willing to pay for it and s/h if you do. If anyone out there can help me out, it would be awesome. I have not yet taken pictures of mine yet, but I will and post them soon. Thanks in advance! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19560	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/5/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.

While the PRR had container cars, this model is of a NYC car with decals for PRR. In some early ads it is identified as such.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 11:30 am Subject: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed. Hi All! I purchased a car the other day that I had never seen before, then low and behold one turned up on eBay the same week! This one just sold by Dan's Train Depot (not mine): DTD - HO SCALE VINTAGE RED BALL #89 PRR LCL CONTAINER METAL WOOD CAR Mine does not have the box and is missing one of the containers and I was hoping maybe someone might have my container or one like it laying around in their scrap box somewhere. I do not expect to ever list/sell my car as it is the only one like it I have ever seen, so it would be nice to have it complete.  I will be more than willing to pay for it and s/h if you do. If anyone out there can help me out, it would be awesome. I have not yet taken pictures of mine yet, but I will and post them soon. Thanks in advance! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19561	From: Richard White	Date: 6/5/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.

Hi Sean- Here's a photo of my Red Ball PRR container car. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/881746028/pic/2075757667/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: richarddipping@... Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:29:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.   While the PRR had container cars, this model is of a NYC car with decals for PRR. In some early ads it is identified as such.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 11:30 am Subject: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed. Hi All! I purchased a car the other day that I had never seen before, then low and behold one turned up on eBay the same week! This one just sold by Dan's Train Depot (not mine): DTD - HO SCALE VINTAGE RED BALL #89 PRR LCL CONTAINER METAL WOOD CAR Mine does not have the box and is missing one of the containers and I was hoping maybe someone might have my container or one like it laying around in their scrap box somewhere. I do not expect to ever list/sell my car as it is the only one like it I have ever seen, so it would be nice to have it complete.  I will be more than willing to pay for it and s/h if you do. If anyone out there can help me out, it would be awesome. I have not yet taken pictures of mine yet, but I will and post them soon. Thanks in advance! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19562	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.

That is one cool car Richard!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:53 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.   Hi Sean- Here's a photo of my Red Ball PRR container car. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/881746028/pic/2075757667/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: richarddipping@... Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:29:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.   While the PRR had container cars, this model is of a NYC car with decals for PRR. In some early ads it is identified as such.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 11:30 am Subject: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed. Hi All! I purchased a car the other day that I had never seen before, then low and behold one turned up on eBay the same week! This one just sold by Dan's Train Depot (not mine): DTD - HO SCALE VINTAGE RED BALL #89 PRR LCL CONTAINER METAL WOOD CAR Mine does not have the box and is missing one of the containers and I was hoping maybe someone might have my container or one like it laying around in their scrap box somewhere. I do not expect to ever list/sell my car as it is the only one like it I have ever seen, so it would be nice to have it complete.  I will be more than willing to pay for it and s/h if you do. If anyone out there can help me out, it would be awesome. I have not yet taken pictures of mine yet, but I will and post them soon. Thanks in advance! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19563	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.

Hi Sean - Until I saw that picture, I had been wondering what the six containers in a box of junk I have were for!   I bought the box back in the 80's from an old pro, now deceased.  I'll send them to you if you send me your address to my aol address.  They are assembled, but not painted. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 12:31 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.   Hi All! I purchased a car the other day that I had never seen before, then low and behold one turned up on eBay the same week! This one just sold by Dan's Train Depot (not mine): DTD - HO SCALE VINTAGE RED BALL #89 PRR LCL CONTAINER METAL WOOD CAR Mine does not have the box and is missing one of the containers and I was hoping maybe someone might have my container or one like it laying around in their scrap box somewhere. I do not expect to ever list/sell my car as it is the only one like it I have ever seen, so it would be nice to have it complete.  I will be more than willing to pay for it and s/h if you do. If anyone out there can help me out, it would be awesome. I have not yet taken pictures of mine yet, but I will and post them soon. Thanks in advance! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19564	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: Fwd: Mantua 8 Ball

Attachments : IMG_8015.JPG IMG_8014.JPG Sean, All, I got the Mantua 8 Ball I bought off you ( great piece ) disassembled and the paint stripped off. I'm ready to put it together to make sure things are OK. It is a great little piece and I'm not concerned when it was made. It will replace the one I have since I now know it was modified with a straight boiler and a different tender. It will just move over to my "fantasy" rack. It's a nice piece too. This one I just got will join the vintage collection. I am deciding if I will paint, decal and add coal which I can do anytime. This will help clean a project off my work table giving me room to work on the scratch Built Brass Pacific plus one other engine that's sitting there a while. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19565	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: Howel Day / Redball #89 PRR Container Car container needed.

Long after NYC discontinued use of these cars in their passenger trains  the containers were found serving as MofW shanties and the like in rail yards.  Your extras can have a life too. The last run of this kit we made (about 25 years ago) was in plastic sold by a New York train shop. Merle Rice  .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19566	From: Askerberg	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: 8 Ball Moguls

I have posted a comparative photo of three 8 Ball Moguls in my stable. They are in the AL-2s folder. Variation 1 has a brass channel frame, and I presume it is an early model with a 12 volt motor. Variation 2 is interesting in that it appears to have been painted with gun bluing and pin striping on the tender. Both 1 and 2 have been modified somewhat. The 8 Ball is one of my most favorite vintage locos. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19567	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Moguls

Al,       Enjoyed the pictures of the Moguls. I noticed variation 1+2 the domes are changed. Are they from Belle of the  80's or the general. I was interested when you mentioned the bottom picture ( variation 2 ) was painted with gun bluing.   Haven't seen that to much but I have a Japanese Brass 2-8-0 Camelback New One that has gun bluing on it. Hard to tell it was even brass.                                                                                 Jim H On 6/7/2012 4:11 PM, Askerberg wrote:   I have posted a comparative photo of three 8 Ball Moguls in my stable. They are in the AL-2s folder. Variation 1 has a brass channel frame, and I presume it is an early model with a 12 volt motor. Variation 2 is interesting in that it appears to have been painted with gun bluing and pin striping on the tender. Both 1 and 2 have been modified somewhat. The 8 Ball is one of my most favorite vintage locos. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19568	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Alternative To Kadee #4

A lot of us are disappointed by the discontinuance of the #4 couplers that were needed by our old Ulrich and some other kits. In viewing the current coupler conversion chart I see that Kadee now recommends using current models with a #218 sleeve. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page213.htm It appears to be something that slides over the small pin on these older kits to allow use of couplers with the larger "Athearn-style" hole. So has anybody tried these and what was the result? -- Rick Jones Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19569	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: Alternative To Kadee #4

On 6/8/2012 8:10 AM, Rick Jones wrote: > A lot of us are disappointed by the discontinuance of the #4 > couplers that were needed by our old Ulrich and some other kits. In > viewing the current coupler conversion chart I see that Kadee now > recommends using current models with a #218 sleeve. > http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page213.htm And that should be #213, not #218. -- Rick Jones Why is it that to stop Windows you have to click on "Start"?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19570	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Building Matthews Mercantile

Campbell kits have been around since the 1960's so I guess you can say they are vintage.  I know many of you probably have one or more on your railroad or on the shelves.  In an attempt to get you into building those kits I have documented a build of Campbell's Matthews Mercantile kit.  Check out my WEB site for details of this build.  I hope to inspire those who have not yet started their first craftsman kit or who may have gotten frustrated and stopped working on a kit due to the complexities associated with building a craftsman kit.  Remember that we all have to start walking before we can advance to running.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19571	From: Askerberg	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Moguls

Jim, I suspect those are domes from the Belle, but I'm not sure.  They do look very handsome on the Mogul. Al Posted by: "Jim Heckard" jimheck@...   jimheck28 Thu Jun 7, 2012 1:52 pm (PDT) Al, Enjoyed the pictures of the Moguls. I noticed variation 1+2 the domes are changed. Are they from Belle of the 80's or the general. I was interested when you mentioned the bottom picture ( variation 2 ) was painted with gun bluing. Haven't seen that to much but I have a Japanese Brass 2-8-0 Camelback New One that has gun bluing on it. Hard to tell it was even brass. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19572	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile

Nice build series Denny! Did you ever finish the ?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Building Matthews Mercantile   Campbell kits have been around since the 1960's so I guess you can say they are vintage.  I know many of you probably have one or more on your railroad or on the shelves.  In an attempt to get you into building those kits I have documented a build of Campbell's Matthews Mercantile kit.  Check out my WEB site for details of this build.  I hope to inspire those who have not yet started their first craftsman kit or who may have gotten frustrated and stopped working on a kit due to the complexities associated with building a craftsman kit.  Remember that we all have to start walking before we can advance to running.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19573	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile

Sean, The Hotel Hiser project has not been completed.  Mirroring what has happened in many communities, the developer for whom it was being built encountered some financial setbacks so to speak.  It was started and most of the work was done when I was a member of a club.  In fact the picture that shows the walls in position on the railroad was taken at that club.  That model railroad has been dismantled and I am no longer associated with that club.  I had three structures in the works for that railroad and over night their situation changed and none of the structures under construction were needed so I stopped working on them.  I am waiting to see where I can use this structure before I continue with the construction.   The other builds I am recording are for another project that I am involved in. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Nice build series Denny! > > Did you ever finish the ? >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 1:48 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Building Matthews Mercantile > > >   > Campbell kits have been around since the 1960's so I guess you can say they are vintage.  I know many of you probably have one or more on your railroad or on the shelves.  In an attempt to get you into building those kits I have documented a build of Campbell's Matthews Mercantile kit.  Check out my WEB site for details of this build.  I hope to inspire those who have not yet started their first craftsman kit or who may have gotten frustrated and stopped working on a kit due to the complexities associated with building a craftsman kit.  Remember that we all have to start walking before we can advance to running. >   > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman  >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19574	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Dry Run Assembly

Attachments : IMG_8021.JPG IMG_8017.JPG I had previously decided I would assembly the Mantua 8 Ball before I painted it to make sure it ran well and every was right and glad I did. I don't have an assemble sheet with the part numbers just pictures of finished engine. I took the engine apart, cleaned the old paint and reassembled the engine but something didn't seem right. I come to find out it has the wrong cylinder saddle. It takes the same saddle as the Goat, Belle of the 80's. Don't know what this one is from but sometimes interchangeable parts are a pain. I wasn't about to take it all apart. I don't an extra part and the previous builder had added some piping from the wrong saddle to the body and I just decided to let it go and build up the top of the cylinder saddle the went to the under side of the boiler. It took a 1/4" of epoxy and isn't easily noticed. Once painted no problem. There is some extra piping that had been on it and looked good but I'm deciding should I use it or not because of my original vintage want. I do have to add two brass rod braces at the front of the boiler to the pilot, add the pilot wheel set and change the type of bell. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19575	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Dry Run Assembly [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim, In the photos the cab seems to be sitting higher that it should.  Have you been able to get it lower to match the photo of the completed unit in the background? Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:04 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Dry Run Assembly [2 Attachments]     I had previously decided I would assembly the Mantua 8 Ball before I painted it to make sure it ran well and every was right and glad I did. I don't have an assemble sheet with the part numbers just pictures of finished engine. I took the engine apart, cleaned the old paint and reassembled the engine but something didn't seem right. I come to find out it has the wrong cylinder saddle. It takes the same saddle as the Goat, Belle of the 80's. Don't know what this one is from but sometimes interchangeable parts are a pain. I wasn't about to take it all apart. I don't an extra part and the previous builder had added some piping from the wrong saddle to the body and I just decided to let it go and build up the top of the cylinder saddle the went to the under side of the boiler. It took a 1/4" of epoxy and isn't easily noticed. Once painted no problem. There is some extra piping that had been on it and looked good but I'm deciding should I use it or not because of my original vintage want. I do have to add two brass rod braces at the front of the boiler to the pilot, add the pilot wheel set and change the type of bell. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19576	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Dry Run Assembly [2 Attachments]

Jim, The cab should rest on top of the running boards. There should be no gap between them. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > In the photos the cab seems to be sitting higher that it should. Have you > been able to get it lower to match the photo of the completed unit in the > background? > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jim Heckard > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:04 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Dry Run Assembly [2 Attachments] > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] > > > I had previously decided I would assembly the Mantua 8 > Ball before I painted it to make sure it ran well and every was right > and glad I did. I don't have an assemble sheet with the part numbers > just pictures of finished engine. I took the engine apart, cleaned the > old paint and reassembled the engine but something didn't seem right. I > come to find out it has the wrong cylinder saddle. It takes the same > saddle as the Goat, Belle of the 80's. Don't know what this one is from > but sometimes interchangeable parts are a pain. I wasn't about to take > it all apart. I don't an extra part and the previous builder had added > some piping from the wrong saddle to the body and I just decided to let > it go and build up the top of the cylinder saddle the went to the under > side of the boiler. It took a 1/4" of epoxy and isn't easily noticed. > Once painted no problem. > > There is some extra piping that had been on it and looked good > but I'm deciding should I use it or not because of my original vintage > want. I do have to add two brass rod braces at the front of the boiler > to the pilot, add the pilot wheel set and change the type of bell. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19577	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Switched around

Attachments : IMG_8029.JPG IMG_8028.JPG Chuck, Bill, Good eyes. I was mad because I had to take apart the engine to build the top of the cylinder saddle up that I put the engine together wrong. I put the U shaped bracket under the cab on top of the walkways. It should be bracket inside the cab and cab sitting on walkways. I think it will look a little better since I switched things around. Thanks for noticing. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19578	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around [2 Attachments]

Jim,   It does look much better now.  It is a very handsome loco.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 6:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Switched around [2 Attachments]     Chuck, Bill, Good eyes. I was mad because I had to take apart the engine to build the top of the cylinder saddle up that I put the engine together wrong. I put the U shaped bracket under the cab on top of the walkways. It should be bracket inside the cab and cab sitting on walkways. I think it will look a little better since I switched things around. Thanks for noticing. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19579	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: New Acquisition

Attachments : Kit 0004.JPG Kit 0003.JPG The past several days were spent at the NMRA-LSR convention in Houston. It included a silent auction at which I came away winner of 3 items. The one of interest to this group is the attached New One kit for a Louisiana & Arkansas outside braced boxcar. From past discussions on this list I was aware of locomotives made by New One, but I believe this is the first time I've become aware that they also did classic craftsman kits. Anyway, it goes into the pile of boxes full of other kits to be built "Someday". -- Rick Jones Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19580	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around [2 Attachments]

Hey Jim! That Mogul looks sweet!  I'm a little confused.. what part was wrong?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 6:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Switched around [2 Attachments]   Chuck, Bill, Good eyes. I was mad because I had to take apart the engine to build the top of the cylinder saddle up that I put the engine together wrong. I put the U shaped bracket under the cab on top of the walkways. It should be bracket inside the cab and cab sitting on walkways. I think it will look a little better since I switched things around. Thanks for noticing. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19581	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around

Hi Sean,           I'm talking about the cylinders where the main rods go in and out which others have said is called the cylinder saddle. Look at a Goat, Belle of the 80's, Mighty Mite or a picture of the Mogul. They all have the same cylinders as far as I can see. This Mogul had a different saddle and the part that goes under the front of the boiler is about 1/4" shorter. I built it up to get the boiler a little more "level".      No complaint and no problem. I'm very happy with it. Still some small things to do . Will be on shelf with the vintage collection till I decide or find time to paint. You would have had a good laugh watching my shaking hands try to get those real small screws started. Sometimes it took a couple just tries to get screw driver in the slot. Guess I should invest in the screw driver that holds the screw.       Again thanks for letting me buy it.                     Jim H On 6/11/2012 11:55 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hey Jim! That Mogul looks sweet!  I'm a little confused.. what part was wrong?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 6:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Switched around [2 Attachments]   Chuck, Bill, Good eyes. I was mad because I had to take apart the engine to build the top of the cylinder saddle up that I put the engine together wrong. I put the U shaped bracket under the cab on top of the walkways. It should be bracket inside the cab and cab sitting on walkways. I think it will look a little better since I switched things around. Thanks for noticing. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19582	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition [2 Attachments]

Hi Rick,   Are there any indications on the paper work of what other road names there did?   Thanks and take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Jones Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] New Acquisition [2 Attachments]     The past several days were spent at the NMRA-LSR convention in Houston . It included a silent auction at which I came away winner of 3 items. The one of interest to this group is the attached New One kit for a Louisiana & Arkansas outside braced boxcar. From past discussions on this list I was aware of locomotives made by New One, but I believe this is the first time I've become aware that they also did classic craftsman kits. Anyway, it goes into the pile of boxes full of other kits to be built "Someday". -- Rick Jones Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19583	From: Askerberg	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: New Acquisition

Rick's find reminded me of a box I had salted away.  I forgot about it and did not have it in my vintage inventory - now it is.  It is a New One coach kit.  According to the note on the box, it was purchased in Japan in 1956 - clearly vintage.  The sides and ends are prepainted.  I need to build it soon.  It will go perfectly behind one of those 8 Ball Moguls I posted the other day on AL-2's stuff. Thanks for rattling my cage, Rick. I have posted a photo of the kit in Al-2s stuff. Al Posted by: "Rick Jones" r.t.jones@...   seventysixinchesoffun Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:46 pm (PDT) [Attachment(s) from Rick Jones included below] The past several days were spent at the NMRA-LSR convention in Houston. It included a silent auction at which I came away winner of 3 items. The one of interest to this group is the attached New One kit for a Louisiana & Arkansas outside braced boxcar. From past discussions on this list I was aware of locomotives made by New One, but I believe this is the first time I've become aware that they also did classic craftsman kits. Anyway, it goes into the pile of boxes full of other kits to be built "Someday". -- Rick Jones Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. Attachment(s) from Rick Jones 2 of 2 Photo(s) Kit 0004.JPG Kit 0003.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19584	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

On 6/11/2012 7:09 PM, Chuck Higdon wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Are there any indications on the paper work of what other road names > there did? No mention at all anywhere of available road names. There's not even a model number on the paperwork or box end, just "Truss Side Box Car" and "L&A" on the box end. -- Rick Jones It's frustrating when you know all the answers but nobody bothers to you ask the questions.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19585	From: Jerome	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

I have one of those. I collect Frisco model railroad stuff and I bought a Frisco truss side box car off e-bay several months ago. The box and car look exactly as the pictures posted except mine is assembled and lettered for the Frisco. On the end of the box it is printed "TRUSS SIDE BOX CAR FRISCO". The other end "Made In Japan" fine print. Jerome Oklahoma City

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19586	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

Hello Jerome,   Could I trouble you for the number on the car and the color?  I will add it to the list of New One freight cars.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jerome Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:57 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New Acquisition     I have one of those. I collect Frisco model railroad stuff and I bought a Frisco truss side box car off e-bay several months ago. The box and car look exactly as the pictures posted except mine is assembled and lettered for the Frisco. On the end of the box it is printed "TRUSS SIDE BOX CAR FRISCO". The other end "Made In Japan" fine print. Jerome Oklahoma City

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19587	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around [2 Attachments]

Jim-   Sorry to keep poking my snoot in, but your new 8-Ball has a couple of parts swapped.  The cylinders, crossheads, guides and guide yoke appear to be from an MDC (Roundhouse) 0-6-0. The air tanks are larger than those supplied with the 8-Ball kit, and may be from a Mantua brass Pacific or Atlantic, or they may be Varney parts.  Some modlers thought the kit cylinders looked too small so they substituted the larger Model Die Casting parts. One of the appealing features of the old Mantuas was the ease with which they could be modified to suit the owner's needs. No cast-on details to grind off, etc.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 10, 2012 5:40 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Switched around [2 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Chuck, Bill, Good eyes. I was mad because I had to take apart the engine to build the top of the cylinder saddle up that I put the engine together wrong. I put the U shaped bracket under the cab on top of the walkways. It should be bracket inside the cab and cab sitting on walkways. I think it will look a little better since I switched things around. Thanks for noticing. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 2 of 2 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1640947995/item/list <*> IMG_8028.JPG <*> IMG_8029.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19588	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around

Richard,                No problem in your mentioning the different parts. Say this engine was made in 1950. That's 62 years since it was made. Just like many vintage models bought you rarely find any that are totally original with no modification unless you are lucky to but mint still in the box kit. Like you mentioned  the ease of exchanging parts has created a lot of hybrid engines. I know the cylinder saddle is the wrong one and the air tanks are larger and Varney. Due to the overall shape I'm not buying a third model to make this totally original.  I have almost 200 different vintage ( for me that's before 1975 ) steam engines. Some were built when I got them and someone might have added wrong  pieces. Some of these come from 1936-1938. Where do you find the right pieces. I have a couple of these early vintage pieces that are lacking original parts and not being a rich man I can't search for a second engine to get original parts if you could even find one. A second thing is I can't find an assembly sheet for this engine, and some others, to make sure all is right with a parts break down to tell if it's right or wrong. Pictures of the 8 Ball in the catalogs don't show much and it seems they all show the same side. Till I can find different parts cheap it will stay as is. It still looks good.  I already found my other Mogul is modified.  It had a straight boiler and wrong tender and by buying this one I corrected those flaws for the vintage collection but my first engine will not be busted up just because it was modified.      By people pointing things out I learn too. I'm far from knowing exactly every part on the 200 steam engines and 250 different diesels I have. It's like I've said before I "try" to put each engine back together with all the original parts I can dig up.                                                                                    Jim H On 6/12/2012 7:24 PM, Richard Dipping wrote:   Jim-   Sorry to keep poking my snoot in, but your new 8-Ball has a couple of parts swapped.  The cylinders, crossheads, guides and guide yoke appear to be from an MDC (Roundhouse) 0-6-0. The air tanks are larger than those supplied with the 8-Ball kit, and may be from a Mantua brass Pacific or Atlantic, or they may be Varney parts.  Some modlers thought the kit cylinders looked too small so they substituted the larger Model Die Casting parts. One of the appealing features of the old Mantuas was the ease with which they could be modified to suit the owner's needs. No cast-on details to grind off, etc.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 10, 2012 5:40 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Switched around [2 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Chuck, Bill, Good eyes. I was mad because I had to take apart the engine to build the top of the cylinder saddle up that I put the engine together wrong. I put the U shaped bracket under the cab on top of the walkways. It should be bracket inside the cab and cab sitting on walkways. I think it will look a little better since I switched things around. Thanks for noticing. Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 2 of 2 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1640947995/item/list <*> IMG_8028.JPG <*> IMG_8029.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19589	From: erieberk	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition [2 Attachments]

Hi Rick and Chuck, Rick, that New One Louisiana & Arkansas box car kit is a real nice acquisition you just got at the convention. Congrats on that win; these old kits are getting scarcer all the time, especially the ones that were scarce to begin with. As for New One, this company has been discussed a number of times as a supplier of rolling stock -- both freight and passenger -- in addition to the New One locos you're familiar with. Unless you're new here, I'm surprised you weren't aware of this. Usually, in such discussions as I mentioned, it has been a thread originating with the discussion of Tenshodo. Tenshodo made freight and passenger car kits and factory-built cars not only for themselves but also for IMP (International Model Products) and for New One. Chuck, I' sure you undoubtedly remember at least some of those Tenshodo discussion from the not-too-distant past, in which was brought out that this manufacturer made and supplied both IMP/Takara and New One with rolling stock -- and in all of the same roadnames and road numbers that they themselves offered under their "Tenshodo" brand name. So, Rick's New One L&A O/B box car is esentially the same as that offered by Tenshodo and IMP (this car is box car red). Jerome's New One SL-SF (Frisco) O/B/ box car is also box car red, but as Tenshodo produced many of these cars in both kit form and as factory built, his (Jerome) model box must be the much taller one to be able to enclose the built up car; all the kit boxes were flat (perhaps only an inch high) and no longer fits a model after it's built. In going up to the File section, to access the IMP/Takara V File, I was quite amazed at the extremely small listing for this distributor there. I had thought that I may have sent you a listing for IMP, but now I see I must not have done so. So, if you feel like adding to this spreadsheet/file on IMP/Takara, here goes their listing (below), but without any car side numbers for now. I'll be sending you a small portion of their Road Numbers tomorrow, from the card I have out and using, but as with all my kit manufacturers, most are stored away in large boxes and are not very easy to locate only because I have several thousand kits; I have well over 600 of the 700+ metal Athearn freight cars alone, that were produced, just to give you an example. Yeah, I'll never build them all in this lifetime < g >. I'll add to the car numbers periodically, once I get to them. IMP/Takara 40' Box Car Kits: NP -- Box Car Red NYC Pacemaker _-- Red and Grey ATSF Grand Canyon -- Box Car Red SSW -- Box Car Red WP -- Silver w/Orange Feather SRR -- Box Car Red ERIE -- Box Car Red UP -- Box Car Red CN -- Box Car Red RI -- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red MKT -- Yellow NYNH&H -- Box Car Red C&O "Aluminum" -- Silver GN -- Orange B&O Timesaver -- Dark Blue SAL -- Box Car Red ACL -- Box Car Red 40' Box Cars - "Kustom-Bilt" (factory built and finished) As most of these road names also came as kits, you don't need to make a separate list of these if you don't want to. There are some roadnames that came only as factory built though. ATSF -- Box Cr Red SRR -- Box Car Red B&O Sentinel -- Blue and Silver NYC -- Box Car Red PRR -- Box Car Red GN -- Silver GN -- Orange C&O -- Box Car Red RI -- Box Car Red SOO -- Box Car Red NC&StL -- Box Car Red w/Orange Stripes ACL -- Box Car Red B&O -- Box Car Red MKT -- Yellow CN -- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red NYNH*H -- Box Car Red ERIE -- Box Car Red WP -- Box Car Red NP -- Box Car Red UP -- Box Car Red SAL -- Box Car Red 40' Automobile Car MKT -- Yellow UP -- Box Car Red SAL -- Box Car Red 50' Box Car SP -- Box Car Red PRR -- Box Car Red 50' Automobile Car MKT -- Yellow MONON -- Box Casr Red C&NW -- Box Car Red 40' Outside Braced Box Car (some came both as kits and as factory built) ATSF -- Box Car Red SL-SF (Frisco) Box Car Red WAB-- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red SP -- Box Car Red 40' Tank Car Sinclair Texaco 40' Stock Car MKT -- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red ATSF -- Box Car Red 40' Reefer Fairmount Dairy Berkshire Ham & Bacon Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer Carnation Milk Swift Gerbers Armour WP SOO Line Michigan Central Burlington SRR UP ATSF (S.F.R.D.) All of these following came as "Kustom Bilt" only: 32' Cover Hopper (Two Bay) -- Undec. 32' Hopper -- (Two Bay) -- Undec. 40' Flat Car -- Undec. 40' Transformer/Depressed Center Flat Car -- Undec. 40' Pickle, Wine or Vinegar Car -- Undec. C&NW Work Car -- Gray Boom Car -- Gray, Undec. Caboose -- Came both as kits and as built UP -- Yellow CNJ -- Caboose Red ATSF -- Caboose Red Standard Passenger Coach (Monitor Roof) NYC -- Pullman Green Open End Passenger Cars (Old Time) Baggage -- Pullman Green Combine -- Pullman Green Supply Car -- Pullman Green Coach -- Pullman Green Streamlined Passenger Cars PRR, NYC and ATSF -- Baggage Combine Coach Diner Vista Dome Sleeper Observation That's all this time, Chuck. Some road numbers tomorrow. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > > > > Are there any indications on the paper work of what other road names there > did? > > > > Thanks and take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Rick Jones > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:46 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] New Acquisition [2 Attachments] > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Rick Jones included below] > > The past several days were spent at the NMRA-LSR convention in > Houston. It included a silent auction at which I came away winner of 3 > items. The one of interest to this group is the attached New One kit for > a Louisiana & Arkansas outside braced boxcar. From past discussions on > this list I was aware of locomotives made by New One, but I believe this > is the first time I've become aware that they also did classic craftsman > kits. Anyway, it goes into the pile of boxes full of other kits to be > built "Someday". > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19590	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

Hi Chuck, I believe that I left out IMP's 54' Composite Gondola and their General Service Gondola -- both "Kustom Bilt" (factory built) only. I don't know the colors off-hand, but will give you that info when I dig them out. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19591	From: Jerome	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

Chuck, The car is Tuscan and car # is Frisco 126874. I am not sure if this is a good car number (actual number in Frisco inventory). The car was listed on eBay as Tenshodo. Jerome, Oklahoma City

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19592	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

Ray,   I’ve a member for quite a long time and I was unaware of the New One kits. Nor do I recall any discussion about Tenshodo building kits for others.   There is a lot of subjects that get discussed here and I doubt most can remember it all. Plus, I have a tendency to skip messages on subject lines that run on and on and on (very rarely happens on this group but some others….), especially if they are of a subject I am not all that into at the time. That would include most (not all) vintage car discussions.   I do not want anyone to get the idea that I consider such discussions and data files as unimportant. Quite to the contrary. These discussions are just as important as the ones on the more “glamorous” locomotive postings. Indeed, there many members that collect cars and more that pick up the occasional car and want to i.d. it. In my case I am not looking for freight equipment of any era at present. I already have way too many vintage loco projects and GBW projects plus the occasional SOO and CNW items to do that looking for vintage freight cars is just out of the question. But, as I used to enjoy building Silver Streak cars there will be a day when I will be using all this great data to help me when I do pick up a few vintage kits, God willing I live that long. I do find myself looking for a couple of items, like a diecast metal Athearn crane for instance, all the time.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New Acquisition     Hi Rick and Chuck, Rick, that New One Louisiana & Arkansas box car kit is a real nice acquisition you just got at the convention. Congrats on that win; these old kits are getting scarcer all the time, especially the ones that were scarce to begin with. As for New One, this company has been discussed a number of times as a supplier of rolling stock -- both freight and passenger -- in addition to the New One locos you're familiar with. Unless you're new here, I'm surprised you weren't aware of this. Usually, in such discussions as I mentioned, it has been a thread originating with the discussion of Tenshodo. Tenshodo made freight and passenger car kits and factory-built cars not only for themselves but also for IMP (International Model Products) and for New One. Chuck, I' sure you undoubtedly remember at least some of those Tenshodo discussion from the not-too-distant past, in which was brought out that this manufacturer made and supplied both IMP/Takara and New One with rolling stock -- and in all of the same roadnames and road numbers that they themselves offered under their "Tenshodo" brand name. So, Rick's New One L&A O/B box car is esentially the same as that offered by Tenshodo and IMP (this car is box car red). Jerome's New One SL-SF (Frisco) O/B/ box car is also box car red, but as Tenshodo produced many of these cars in both kit form and as factory built, his (Jerome) model box must be the much taller one to be able to enclose the built up car; all the kit boxes were flat (perhaps only an inch high) and no longer fits a model after it's built. ---SNIP---- Ray Wetzel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19593	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /V List IMP-Takara cars.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of IMP - Takara car kits You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/V%20List%20IMP-Takara%20cars.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19594	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: New Acquisition

Hi Ray and all,   I agree, we must not have done the list.  I have revised the IMP list on the site now to agree with what you have provided so far.  I will add numbers as provided as well.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New Acquisition     Hi Rick and Chuck, Rick, that New One Louisiana & Arkansas box car kit is a real nice acquisition you just got at the convention. Congrats on that win; these old kits are getting scarcer all the time, especially the ones that were scarce to begin with. As for New One, this company has been discussed a number of times as a supplier of rolling stock -- both freight and passenger -- in addition to the New One locos you're familiar with. Unless you're new here, I'm surprised you weren't aware of this. Usually, in such discussions as I mentioned, it has been a thread originating with the discussion of Tenshodo. Tenshodo made freight and passenger car kits and factory-built cars not only for themselves but also for IMP (International Model Products) and for New One. Chuck, I' sure you undoubtedly remember at least some of those Tenshodo discussion from the not-too-distant past, in which was brought out that this manufacturer made and supplied both IMP/Takara and New One with rolling stock -- and in all of the same roadnames and road numbers that they themselves offered under their "Tenshodo" brand name. So, Rick's New One L&A O/B box car is esentially the same as that offered by Tenshodo and IMP (this car is box car red). Jerome's New One SL-SF (Frisco) O/B/ box car is also box car red, but as Tenshodo produced many of these cars in both kit form and as factory built, his (Jerome) model box must be the much taller one to be able to enclose the built up car; all the kit boxes were flat (perhaps only an inch high) and no longer fits a model after it's built. In going up to the File section, to access the IMP/Takara V File, I was quite amazed at the extremely small listing for this distributor there. I had thought that I may have sent you a listing for IMP, but now I see I must not have done so. So, if you feel like adding to this spreadsheet/file on IMP/Takara, here goes their listing (below), but without any car side numbers for now. I'll be sending you a small portion of their Road Numbers tomorrow, from the card I have out and using, but as with all my kit manufacturers, most are stored away in large boxes and are not very easy to locate only because I have several thousand kits; I have well over 600 of the 700+ metal Athearn freight cars alone, that were produced, just to give you an example. Yeah, I'll never build them all in this lifetime < g >. I'll add to the car numbers periodically, once I get to them. IMP/Takara 40' Box Car Kits: NP -- Box Car Red NYC Pacemaker _-- Red and Grey ATSF Grand Canyon -- Box Car Red SSW -- Box Car Red WP -- Silver w/Orange Feather SRR -- Box Car Red ERIE -- Box Car Red UP -- Box Car Red CN -- Box Car Red RI -- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red MKT -- Yellow NYNH&H -- Box Car Red C&O "Aluminum" -- Silver GN -- Orange B&O Timesaver -- Dark Blue SAL -- Box Car Red ACL -- Box Car Red 40' Box Cars - "Kustom-Bilt" (factory built and finished) As most of these road names also came as kits, you don't need to make a separate list of these if you don't want to. There are some roadnames that came only as factory built though. ATSF -- Box Cr Red SRR -- Box Car Red B&O Sentinel -- Blue and Silver NYC -- Box Car Red PRR -- Box Car Red GN -- Silver GN -- Orange C&O -- Box Car Red RI -- Box Car Red SOO -- Box Car Red NC&StL -- Box Car Red w/Orange Stripes ACL -- Box Car Red B&O -- Box Car Red MKT -- Yellow CN -- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red NYNH*H -- Box Car Red ERIE -- Box Car Red WP -- Box Car Red NP -- Box Car Red UP -- Box Car Red SAL -- Box Car Red 40' Automobile Car MKT -- Yellow UP -- Box Car Red SAL -- Box Car Red 50' Box Car SP -- Box Car Red PRR -- Box Car Red 50' Automobile Car MKT -- Yellow MONON -- Box Casr Red C&NW -- Box Car Red 40' Outside Braced Box Car (some came both as kits and as factory built) ATSF -- Box Car Red SL-SF (Frisco) Box Car Red WAB-- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red SP -- Box Car Red 40' Tank Car Sinclair Texaco 40' Stock Car MKT -- Box Car Red D&RGW -- Box Car Red ATSF -- Box Car Red 40' Reefer Fairmount Dairy Berkshire Ham & Bacon Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer Carnation Milk Swift Gerbers Armour WP SOO Line Michigan Central Burlington SRR UP ATSF (S.F.R.D.) All of these following came as "Kustom Bilt" only: 32' Cover Hopper ( Two Bay ) -- Undec. 32' Hopper -- ( Two Bay ) -- Undec. 40' Flat Car -- Undec. 40' Transformer/Depressed Center Flat Car -- Undec. 40' Pickle, Wine or Vinegar Car -- Undec. C&NW Work Car -- Gray Boom Car -- Gray, Undec. Caboose -- Came both as kits and as built UP -- Yellow CNJ -- Caboose Red ATSF -- Caboose Red Standard Passenger Coach (Monitor Roof) NYC -- Pullman Green Open End Passenger Cars (Old Time) Baggage -- Pullman Green Combine -- Pullman Green Supply Car -- Pullman Green Coach -- Pullman Green Streamlined Passenger Cars PRR, NYC and ATSF -- Baggage Combine Coach Diner Vista Dome Sleeper Observation That's all this time, Chuck. Some road numbers tomorrow. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > > > > Are there any indications on the paper work of what other road names there > did? > > > > Thanks and take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Rick Jones > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:46 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] New Acquisition [2 Attachments] > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Rick Jones included below] > > The past several days were spent at the NMRA-LSR convention in > Houston . It included a silent auction at which I came away winner of 3 > items. The one of interest to this group is the attached New One kit for > a Louisiana & w:st="on">Arkansas outside braced boxcar. From past discussions on > this list I was aware of locomotives made by New One, but I believe this > is the first time I've become aware that they also did classic craftsman > kits. Anyway, it goes into the pile of boxes full of other kits to be > built "Someday". > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19595	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile

Hi Denny, I love your photo journal and excellent explanation of building Matthews Mercantile.  It is an excellent tutorial for anyone who is a bit apprehensive of jumping into Campbell kits and I will recommend they review your web site on this anytime the opportunity arises.  I also think very highly of Campbell kits and their instructions.  Oh, by the way, I think your photo journal on scratch building the Tool Shed by Jack Work is an excellent one to get someone started in scratch building.  But, if someone doesn't want to scratch build this one, Campbell makes a kit for it as well. :o) keep up the good work and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 17:48:32 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Building Matthews Mercantile   Campbell kits have been around since the 1960's so I guess you can say they are vintage.  I know many of you probably have one or more on your railroad or on the shelves.  In an attempt to get you into building those kits I have documented a build of Campbell's Matthews Mercantile kit.  Check out my WEB site for details of this build.  I hope to inspire those who have not yet started their first craftsman kit or who may have gotten frustrated and stopped working on a kit due to the complexities associated with building a craftsman kit.  Remember that we all have to start walking before we can advance to running.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19596	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production, was; New Acquisition

Hi Chuck, Thanks for keeping on top of things, and adding the new info for IMP. I was able to dig out a number of IMP car kits this morning, for their road numbers. Then, I realized that I did a complete article on IMP for Dave Spanagel's HO SC&H SIG "The Reporting Mark" periodical, so I dug that out and have most of the car numbers and more new info. I know this is going to cause you more work, especially as IMP had a numbering system for each type of car -- although they never used these numbers in their catalog (so I can't call them catalog numbers). The numbers were stamped on the box tops, although I don't know when they started that practice; not all boxes have stamped numbers on them. I guess I probably should have waited, as this is also going to cause me more work in sending you the road numbers. I have to include all the road names again. Be especially careful of each car I list for you here again, as there are changes throughout, with colors and additions to car types. Standard 40' ARR Box Cars -- Kits and "Kustom Bilt" NKP 15821, 15822 202 SRR 10061 WP 20807 204 NYC 'Pacemaker' 174475 ERIE 75502 UP 185735 CN 520395 208 C&O Aluminum 2930 209 RI (CRI&P) Aluminum 20069 (Chuck, note -- not box car red) D&RGW 67899 MKT 60050 NYNH&H 33870 B&O 'Timesaver' 467107, 467108 ACL Brite Red 21001 (Chuck, note -- not b/c red) GN Orange 10094 224 SAL 18932 Standard 40' ARR Box Cars -- "Kustom Bilt" only ATSF 'Grand Canyon' 138385, 141529 SSW 'Blue Streak' 33650 B&O 'Sentinel' PRR (tuscan red) 78506 GN Silver SOO Line NC&StL 40' AAR Automobile Box Car -- Kit MKT (yellow) 60050 UP 475307 SAL 22450 50' AAR Automobile Box Car -- Kit (Chuck, note -- there are no 50' single-door box cars) MKT 46007 SP 210702 PRR 84666 MONON (CIL) 1527 C&NW 57996 40' Outside Braced Box Car -- Kit ATSF 252 L&A 13152 SAL SL-SF 'Frisco' WAB 57015 D&RGW 56910 SP 40' Tank Car 401 Texaco TCX (silver) 208 402 Sinclair SDRX (black) 24859 40' Stock Car -- Kit MKT (yellow) 47380 PRR (tuscan red) 102987 503 D&RGW (black) 36951, 36957, 36958 504 UP (yellow) 47701 505 ATSF (tuscan red) 60583 C&NW (green & yellow) NYC (gray) 198802 40' Refrigerator Cars -- Kits 301 UP/PFE (orange) 25109 Fairmount Dairy URTX (yellow) 30041 303 Gerbers GSVX (blue & white) 4603 304 ATSF S.F.R.D. (orange) Berkshire Ham MAHX (red & yellow) 8015 Pabst Blue Ribbon URTX (yellow) 9147 Carnation Milk URTX (yellow) 23215 Swift SRLX (yellow) 4209 309 SOO Line URTX (yellow) 5560 WP/PFE (yellow) 26109 SRR (yellow) 313 CB&Q 'Burlington' BREX (yellow) 75559 314 Michigan Central (white) 18500 315 Armour ALRX (yellow) 292 Caboose -- "Kustom Bilt" UP 3-Window (yellow) 3530 CNJ 2-Window (caboose red) undec. ATSF (caboose red) NYC 4 & 5 Window (caboose red) undec Misc. 2-Bay Covered Hopper (grey) undec 50 Ton Twin Rib-Side Hopper (red or black) undec 605 40' Flat Car, Stake Side (red or black) undec 40' Depressed Center Flat Car (tuscan red) undec 54' Composite Gondola (red or black) undec General Service Gondola undec Pickle, Wine or Vinegar Car undec M.O.W. Cars C&NW Work Car (grey) 13081 Boom Car (grey) undec 200 Ton Crane Car undec Standard Passenger Coach -- Monitor Roof NYC -- Choice of heavy sheet aluminum or sheet brass Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19597	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Building Matthews Mercantile

Thanks Victor, That is the main reason for my WEB site.  I hope to demonstrate to modelers that you do not need a whole shop full of tools to build interesting models.  From easy ways to remotor and regearing a model to building structures.  In the future there will be builds and bashes of LaBelle freight and passenger car kits as well as some more budget minded remotoring projects.  Thanks for checking my WEB site out. My 6/11/2012 blog discussed measuring and layout tools and on Friday I will be introducing my personal assistant. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny,I love your photo journal and excellent explanation of building Matthews Mercantile. It is an excellent tutorial for anyone who is a bit apprehensive of jumping into Campbell kits and I will recommend they review your web site on this anytime the opportunity arises. I also think very highly of Campbell kits and their instructions. Oh, by the way, I think your photo journal on scratch building the Tool Shed by Jack Work is an excellent one to get someone started in scratch building. But, if someone doesn't want to scratch build this one, Campbell makes a kit for it as well. :o)keep up the good work and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 17:48:32 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Building Matthews Mercantile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Campbell kits have been around since the 1960's so I guess you can say they are vintage. I know many of you probably have one or more on your railroad or on the shelves. In an attempt to get you into building those kits I have documented a build of Campbell's Matthews Mercantile kit. Check out my WEB site for details of this build. I hope to inspire those who have not yet started their first craftsman kit or who may have gotten frustrated and stopped working on a kit due to the complexities associated with building a craftsman kit. Remember that we all have to start walking before we can advance to running. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19598	From: John Webster	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: Switched around

Bowser used to have a web page which listed hundreds of Mantua parts they had in stock. That page has disappeared but a call to Bowser with the desired Mantua part number might get you what you need.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19599	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Mantua Parts

John W. Thanks for the mention to find Mantua parts on that Bowser list. I don't think it would help much as my Bowser catalogs don't have the older Mantua in them. Also since I still haven't found a Mantua parts and assembly sheets for the engine ( only pictures ) and most Mantua parts from that time don't have numbers stamped on them I wouldn't have a number to use to ask. However when Model Power took over Mantua items Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains was granted an exclusive dealership for Mantua parts. Dan also is very knowledgable about Mantua so most time you can call or send an email to him and describe what you want. Not every part is available Sean N is another. option. To bad money isn't always readily available and I have to wait. I'll get them sooner or later like I had to wait to find some Conover 2-10-2 parts. Still looking for others. Not to easy to find all the parts for any engine that is 60-75 years old. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19600	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production, was; New Acquisition

Hi Ray,   OK, I have added and revised as indicated below.  The new file is on site.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:26 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: IMP Production, was; New Acquisition     Hi Chuck, Thanks for keeping on top of things, and adding the new info for IMP. I was able to dig out a number of IMP car kits this morning, for their road numbers. Then, I realized that I did a complete article on IMP for Dave Spanagel's HO SC&H SIG "The Reporting Mark" periodical, so I dug that out and have most of the car numbers and more new info. I know this is going to cause you more work, especially as IMP had a numbering system for each type of car -- although they never used these numbers in their catalog (so I can't call them catalog numbers). The numbers were stamped on the box tops, although I don't know when they started that practice; not all boxes have stamped numbers on them. I guess I probably should have waited, as this is also going to cause me more work in sending you the road numbers. I have to include all the road names again. Be especially careful of each car I list for you here again, as there are changes throughout, with colors and additions to car types. Standard 40' ARR Box Cars -- Kits and "Kustom Bilt" NKP 15821 , 15822 202 SRR 10061 WP 20807 204 NYC 'Pacemaker' 174475 ERIE 75502 UP 185735 CN 520395 208 C&O Aluminum 2930 209 RI (CRI&P) Aluminum 20069 (Chuck, note -- not box car red) D&RGW 67899 MKT 60050 NYNH&H 33870 B&O 'Timesaver' 467107, 467108 ACL Brite Red 21001 (Chuck, note -- not b/c red) GN Orange 10094 224 SAL 18932 Standard 40' ARR Box Cars -- "Kustom Bilt" only ATSF ' Grand Canyon ' 138385, 141529 SSW 'Blue Streak' 33650 B&O 'Sentinel' PRR (tuscan red) 78506 GN Silver SOO Line NC&StL 40' AAR Automobile Box Car -- Kit MKT (yellow) 60050 UP 475307 SAL 22450 50' AAR Automobile Box Car -- Kit (Chuck, note -- there are no 50' single-door box cars) MKT 46007 SP 210702 PRR 84666 MONON (CIL) 1527 C&NW 57996 40' Outside Braced Box Car -- Kit ATSF 252 L&A 13152 SAL SL-SF 'Frisco' WAB 57015 D&RGW 56910 SP 40' Tank Car 401 Texaco TCX (silver) 208 402 Sinclair SDRX (black) 24859 40' Stock Car -- Kit MKT (yellow) 47380 PRR (tuscan red) 102987 503 D&RGW (black) 36951, 36957, 36958 504 UP (yellow) 47701 505 ATSF (tuscan red) 60583 C&NW (green & yellow) NYC (gray) 198802 40' Refrigerator Cars -- Kits 301 UP/PFE (orange) 25109 Fairmount Dairy URTX (yellow) 30041 303 Gerbers GSVX (blue & white) 4603 304 ATSF S.F.R.D. (orange) Berkshire Ham MAHX (red & yellow) 8015 Pabst Blue Ribbon URTX (yellow) 9147 Carnation Milk URTX (yellow) 23215 Swift SRLX (yellow) 4209 309 SOO Line URTX (yellow) 5560 WP/PFE (yellow) 26109 SRR (yellow) 313 CB&Q ' Burlington ' BREX (yellow) 75559 314 Michigan Central (white) 18500 315 Armour ALRX (yellow) 292 Caboose -- "Kustom Bilt" UP 3-Window (yellow) 3530 CNJ 2-Window (caboose red) undec. ATSF (caboose red) NYC 4 & 5 Window (caboose red) undec Misc. 2-Bay Covered Hopper (grey) undec 50 Ton Twin Rib-Side Hopper (red or black) undec 605 40' Flat Car, Stake Side (red or black) undec 40' Depressed Center Flat Car (tuscan red) undec 54' Composite Gondola (red or black) undec General Service Gondola undec Pickle, Wine or Vinegar Car undec M.O.W. Cars C&NW Work Car (grey) 13081 Boom Car (grey) undec 200 Ton Crane Car undec Standard Passenger Coach -- Monitor Roof NYC -- Choice of heavy sheet aluminum or sheet brass Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19601	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Parts

Jim, Sorry I have not been paying attention to the yahoo email lists very much lately. With working on our home master bedroom/bathroom 4-room addition, kids soccer coaching (just ended last week - next week starts Summer deck hockey coaching) and work, my plate has been full, throw in the eBay listing and it is overflowing. Does the Mogul you have need parts? Let me know what parts you need and I will get them to you.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Parts   John W. Thanks for the mention to find Mantua parts on that Bowser list. I don't think it would help much as my Bowser catalogs don't have the older Mantua in them. Also since I still haven't found a Mantua parts and assembly sheets for the engine ( only pictures ) and most Mantua parts from that time don't have numbers stamped on them I wouldn't have a number to use to ask. However when Model Power took over Mantua items Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains was granted an exclusive dealership for Mantua parts. Dan also is very knowledgable about Mantua so most time you can call or send an email to him and describe what you want. Not every part is available Sean N is another. option. To bad money isn't always readily available and I have to wait. I'll get them sooner or later like I had to wait to find some Conover 2-10-2 parts. Still looking for others. Not to easy to find all the parts for any engine that is 60-75 years old. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19603	From: pcslrr	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: revell omaha 060

does anyone know where i can find an exploded view parts diagram for the revell omaha 060t ? i have one coming and i want to be able to disassemble it to try to fix it, if it needs fixed.also good for general maintenance too. thanks howard couldn`t find it on ho seeker.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19604	From: takefive247	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Parts

Jim, HOseeker has the parts list and assembly sheets on the web site. Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > John W. > > Thanks for the mention to find Mantua parts on that > Bowser list. I don't think it would help much as my Bowser catalogs > don't have the older Mantua in them. Also since I still haven't found a > Mantua parts and assembly sheets for the engine ( only pictures ) and > most Mantua parts from that time don't have numbers stamped on them I > wouldn't have a number to use to ask. However when Model Power took over > Mantua items Dan Bush of Yardbird Trains was granted an exclusive > dealership for Mantua parts. Dan also is very knowledgable about Mantua > so most time you can call or send an email to him and describe what you > want. Not every part is available Sean N is another. option. To bad > money isn't always readily available and I have to wait. I'll get them > sooner or later like I had to wait to find some Conover 2-10-2 parts. > Still looking for others. Not to easy to find all the parts for any > engine that is 60-75 years old. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19605	From: Mike Christian	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: IMP Production

Attachments : > Standard 40' ARR Box Cars -- Kits and "Kustom Bilt" > CN 520395 An interesting (at least to me) side-note on the IMP (Imperial Model Products?)) cars is that the Canadian National Box Car reporting marks are the same as on the Shinohara model (I believe Shinohara actually made the car for IMP but also released it under their own brand), Mantua and Pacific Pike (I believe this was a Canadian importer and therefore this may have been the very same IMP/Shinohara car. I have all of the above models, I just can't find them! I would be interested to know if they are indeed all the same car, or if the Mantua car simply used the same reporting marks (the rest of them are probably all of the same manufacturer). If memory serves, I also have some embossed paper sides (probably Mantua) that have this same reporting mark. Just another UBI (useless bit of information) brought to you from the swamps of Louisiana! BTW, I haven't contributed much to this forum, but have learned a lot reading the posts. I miss Dave Spangler's THE REPORTING MARKS (HOSC&HSIG) Sig, and find this forum (and YARDBIRD) very informative. In fact, this is where I found out about http://www.oldmodelkits.com/ and the owner Al Bussie and I have been doing some business. I have way too much stuff and am disposing of it as time allows with the intention of building a layout again once I sell off all the stuff in boxes taking up the potential layout space! Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19606	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production

Mike,   Going by your statement that you have some cardstock sides (I agree likely Mantua if same marks as their production car) I would venture a guess that the imports used those sides for their prototype. I really don’t see those early Asian manufacturers investing all the time and effort on research back before the internet and all that we are so blessed with today. Of course the cars mentioned here were extant back in those days but I also doubt they sent researchers over here to photograph a whole craphouse of freight cars, even if they had Japanese cameras. The Japanese were great at imitating, at lower prices, products produced in the U.S. back in the day.   Maybe you remember the 1960’s story  about the huge manufacturer of consumer goods called the J.A.PAN Company and their famous inventor, Pat Pending?   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Christian Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 7:47 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] IMP Production     > Standard 40' ARR Box Cars -- Kits and "Kustom Bilt" > CN 520395 An interesting (at least to me) side-note on the IMP (Imperial Model Products?)) cars is that the Canadian National Box Car reporting marks are the same as on the Shinohara model (I believe Shinohara actually made the car for IMP but also released it under their own brand), Mantua and Pacific Pike (I believe this was a Canadian importer and therefore this may have been the very same IMP/Shinohara car. I have all of the above models, I just can't find them! I would be interested to know if they are indeed all the same car, or if the Mantua car simply used the same reporting marks (the rest of them are probably all of the same manufacturer). If memory serves, I also have some embossed paper sides (probably Mantua) that have this same reporting mark. Just another UBI (useless bit of information) brought to you from the swamps of Louisiana! BTW, I haven't contributed much to this forum, but have learned a lot reading the posts. I miss Dave Spangler's THE REPORTING MARKS (HOSC&HSIG) Sig, and find this forum (and YARDBIRD) very informative. In fact, this is where I found out about http://www.oldmodelkits.com/ and the owner Al Bussie and I have been doing some business. I have way too much stuff and am disposing of it as time allows with the intention of building a layout again once I sell off all the stuff in boxes taking up the potential layout space! Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19607	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: Alternative To Kadee #4

This should work in majority of the cases.  I have done this kind of thing with older Varney kits as well as older Roundhouse kits.  I have used telescoping brass or styrene tubing of appropriate sizes, but certainly the Kadee sleeves would be easier.  Having said that, I am looking at some nice (Alexander?) coupler boxes that come in Ambroid kits and they have 2 additional pins that would need to be cut off in order to use #5's.  Some older Roundhouse kits with cast on coupler boxes have similar protrusions that would need to be filed off as well, but I suspect they work work also.  I will say that the movement and action of the number 4's are nicer than the number 5's and others.  Also, the default box that comes with number 4's has better detail. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: r.t.jones@... Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 08:10:35 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Alternative To Kadee #4   A lot of us are disappointed by the discontinuance of the #4 couplers that were needed by our old Ulrich and some other kits. In viewing the current coupler conversion chart I see that Kadee now recommends using current models with a #218 sleeve. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page213.htm It appears to be something that slides over the small pin on these older kits to allow use of couplers with the larger "Athearn-style" hole. So has anybody tried these and what was the result? -- Rick Jones Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19608	From: Nelson	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: revell omaha 060

Howard, Tony Cook' site has the exploded view. I even printed the image and it's quite legible. http://ho-scaletrains.net/revellhoscaletrainsresource/id5.html Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "pcslrr" <EITHLT@...> wrote: > > does anyone know where i can find an exploded view parts diagram for the revell omaha 060t ? i have one coming and i want to be able to disassemble it to try to fix it, if it needs fixed.also good for general maintenance too. thanks howard > couldn`t find it on ho seeker. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19609	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: Alternative To Kadee #4

On 6/15/2012 11:52 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote: This should work in majority of the cases.  I have done this kind of thing with older Varney kits as well as older Roundhouse kits.  I have used telescoping brass or styrene tubing of appropriate sizes, but certainly the Kadee sleeves would be easier.  Having said that, I am looking at some nice (Alexander?) coupler boxes that come in Ambroid kits and they have 2 additional pins that would need to be cut off in order to use #5's.  Some older Roundhouse kits with cast on coupler boxes have similar protrusions that would need to be filed off as well, but I suspect they work work also.  I will say that the movement and action of the number 4's are nicer than the number 5's and others.  Also, the default box that comes with number 4's has better detail. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: r.t.jones@... Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 08:10:35 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Alternative To Kadee #4   A lot of us are disappointed by the discontinuance of the #4 couplers that were needed by our old Ulrich and some other kits. In viewing the current coupler conversion chart I see that Kadee now recommends using current models with a #218 sleeve. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page213.htm It appears to be something that slides over the small pin on these older kits to allow use of couplers with the larger "Athearn-style" hole. So has anybody tried these and what was the result? -- Rick Jones Opportunities always look bigger going than coming._,___ What I've often done is use a No. 5 with the bottom of the Kadee pocket upside down as a cover plate. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19610	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production

Mike, It comes as no surprise, that IMP's (Internationasl Model Products) reporting number is the same as found on Shinohara and other Japanese model train manufacturers. While Shinohara did not make models for IMP, several Japanese model manufacturers belonged to a conglomeration and shared ideas with each other. As I had mentioned, Tenshodo manufactured models for IMP -- and of course also had the same reporting number for their own CN box car as well as for New One's CN box car. I would not doubt that Shinohara and Tenshodo copied the reporting marks and numbers from one of the American model manufacturers -- possibly Mantua or another manufacturer using the same road number, just as John suggests (Mantua may have copied this same road number from yet another U.S. manufacturer of this same car, using the same reporting marks). To be using the same road number, one of those manufacturers had to copy it from one of the others! As for the early Asian manufacturers investing all the time and effort to research the color schemes and reporting marks of American prototype rolling stock, they wouldn't need to, since they already have an American company in their conglomerate to do that work for them and supply them with any info they needed. IMP's address was 33 Union Square West, New York 3, NY (no zip codes yet at that time). IMP's 1956 catalog states; "Members of the Scale Model Railroad Manufacturers of Japan, "ASMORAMA" -- factories in Tokyo -- Yokohama -- Osaka and Kobe." So, as you see, this American based distributor was affiliated with whichever other Japanese maufacturers were in the ASMORAMA group. Since Shinohara had the identical reporting number on their CN box car as Tenshodo (and IMP, and New One) had, they apparently were linked to each other. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19611	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: IMP Production

On 6/15/2012 7:46 AM, Mike Christian wrote: > In fact, this is where I found out > about http://www.oldmodelkits.com/... I hadn't heard of that web site before. In a way it's nice to have a source for old kits other than eBay and swap meets, but his prices...WOW! Out of my league. -- Rick Jones Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19612	From: Mike Christian	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: OldModelKits

Attachments : Rick Jones said: > http://www.oldmodelkits.com >I hadn't heard of that web site before. In a way it's nice to have a source for old kits other than eBay and swap meets, but his prices...WOW! Out of my league. Hi Rick, Yeah I noticed that too, but considering what he is paying me for my old kits, I would suspect he has to price them that high to make a living at this. If he pays a fair price on the front end, he has to charge a relatively high price on the back end. I guess it comes down to how bad someone wants a particular kit. I have paid prices that I knew were quite high to obtain a piece that I really wanted and had been unable to find. Also, when buying from eBay you never know what to expect. I have received supposedly MINT kits that were missing parts, had broken parts, etc. At least with Al he backs what he sells - if he sells it as MINT you can be sure it is MINT or you can get your money back. Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19613	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

I agree with Mike.  While some of the prices are way too high (e. g. selling La Belle kits that are still available new for about 125% retail) there are some real prizes there being sold for fair market value.  If you've been around E Bay for awhile you get a good idea of values. John B. Allyn From: "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 1:54:29 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OldModelKits   Rick Jones said: > http://www.oldmodelkits.com >I hadn't heard of that web site before. In a way it's nice to have a source for old kits other than eBay and swap meets, but his prices...WOW! Out of my league. Hi Rick, Yeah I noticed that too, but considering what he is paying me for my old kits, I would suspect he has to price them that high to make a living at this. If he pays a fair price on the front end, he has to charge a relatively high price on the back end. I guess it comes down to how bad someone wants a particular kit. I have paid prices that I knew were quite high to obtain a piece that I really wanted and had been unable to find. Also, when buying from eBay you never know what to expect. I have received supposedly MINT kits that were missing parts, had broken parts, etc. At least with Al he backs what he sells - if he sells it as MINT you can be sure it is MINT or you can get your money back. Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19614	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I can understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price gouging.  Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three times what similar kits sold for on Ebay.  That's just way too rough. Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and a few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my inventory of unbuilt kits.   I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed for sale on the Hobby Shop page of my WEB site.  If there is some old wood kit you are interested in drop me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping a hole in your monthly food budget. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Christian" <mikec@...> wrote: > > Rick Jones said: > > > http://www.oldmodelkits.com > >I hadn't heard of that web site before. In a way it's nice to have a source > for old kits other than eBay and swap meets, but his prices...WOW! Out of my > league. > > > Hi Rick, > > Yeah I noticed that too, but considering what he is paying me for my old > kits, I would suspect he has to price them that high to make a living at > this. If he pays a fair price on the front end, he has to charge a > relatively high price on the back end. I guess it comes down to how bad > someone wants a particular kit. I have paid prices that I knew were quite > high to obtain a piece that I really wanted and had been unable to find. > Also, when buying from eBay you never know what to expect. I have received > supposedly MINT kits that were missing parts, had broken parts, etc. At > least with Al he backs what he sells - if he sells it as MINT you can be > sure it is MINT or you can get your money back. > > Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19615	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

Denny, It's NOT "price gouging", it's the free-market. If you find the price asked unreasonably high, you do not have to buy it. Gouging only comes in when you "must" have it "now", like a $2 umbrella for $10 in a rainstorm. If the pressure to buy is no more than your desire to own it, the decision to buy it is not being forced upon you, and the seller is not price gouging, but rather making the best deal he can as a willing seller with a willing buyer. Sorry, Walter On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I can understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price gouging.  Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three times what similar kits sold for on Ebay.  That's just way too rough. Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and a few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my inventory of unbuilt kits.   I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed for sale on the Hobby Shop page of my WEB site.  If there is some old wood kit you are interested in drop me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping a hole in your monthly food budget. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19616	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

Gouging may not be as good a word as "usury" You see too much of this anymore. Folks don't know what the item costs NOW, so they buy. I remember several years ago someone selling #1 gauge "vintage" gas pumps. Until someone mentioned they were on the shelf at Target, what they cost.....the evilbait "seller" had no inventory, no stock, no cash outlay....when he got a "winner", he just drove over, bought one at Target, charged double the shipping, and smiled all the way to the bank. I try to be as informed as I can be. I see folks doing that (obviously a bigger issue if they are a "dealer" and getting that price discount, too) and I walk away...fast. It is a very good thing for folks to come onto forums or groups, even as this one is, and report such shenanigans. Dave > Denny, > It's NOT "price gouging", it's the free-market. If you find the price asked > unreasonably high, you do not have to buy it. Gouging only comes in when > you "must" have it "now", like a $2 umbrella for $10 in a rainstorm. If the > pressure to buy is no more than your desire to own it, the decision to buy > it is not being forced upon you, and the seller is not price gouging, but > rather making the best deal he can as a willing seller with a willing buyer. > Sorry, > Walter > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I can > > understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price gouging. > > Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three > > times what similar kits sold for on Ebay. That's just way too rough. > > Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and a > > few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will > > stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my > > inventory of unbuilt kits. > > > > I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed for > > sale on the *Hobby Shop <http://www.cwrailman.com/hobby-shop.html>* page > > of my WEB site. If there is some old wood kit you are interested in drop > > me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping a > > hole in your monthly food budget. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman<http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19617	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

Denny, This isn't 1955! Youaren't earning $0.27 per hour! and neither is the person selling something to you. In 1953 I paid $3.95 for a kit of 3 Varney ore cars. That was 10 hours pay for me! BEFORE TAXES When I was able to buy a MINT set of 3, couplete with sprung trucks, screws, etc. in the original packaing for $60 that ws a bargin! Minimum wage is $7.65 so at $76.50 I would have been paying about the same as I paid in 1953! I think that is a bargin. Especially since every penny stayed in the US and is used to pay your wages, etc. None of it is going overseas. Don't compare this seller to eBay - way, way too often a NEW item on eBay is a piece of junk with broken gears, missing parts, etc. NEW often indicates nothing more than it has a box! When I was discharged from the Navy in 1962 I could buy a 3 bedroom rowhouse in Baltimore City as a VA repo for $2000 - that same house today sells at more than $130,000! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 6/16/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Gouging may not be as good a word as "usury" > You see too much of this anymore. > Folks don't know what the item costs NOW, so they buy. > I remember several years ago someone selling #1 gauge "vintage" gas pumps. > Until someone mentioned they were on the shelf at Target, what they > cost.....the evilbait "seller" had no inventory, no stock, no cash > outlay....when he got a "winner", he just drove over, bought one at Target, > charged double the shipping, and smiled all the way to the bank. > I try to be as informed as I can be. > I see folks doing that (obviously a bigger issue if they are a "dealer" and > getting that price discount, too) and I walk away...fast. > It is a very good thing for folks to come onto forums or groups, even as > this one is, and report such shenanigans. > > Dave >> Denny, >> It's NOT "price gouging", it's the free-market. If you find the price >> asked >> unreasonably high, you do not have to buy it. Gouging only comes in when >> you "must" have it "now", like a $2 umbrella for $10 in a rainstorm. If >> the >> pressure to buy is no more than your desire to own it, the decision to >> buy >> it is not being forced upon you, and the seller is not price gouging, but >> rather making the best deal he can as a willing seller with a willing >> buyer. >> Sorry, >> Walter >> >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: >> >> > ** >> > >> > >> > I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I >> > can >> > understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price >> > gouging. >> > Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three >> > times what similar kits sold for on Ebay. That's just way too rough. >> > Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and >> > a >> > few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will >> > stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my >> > inventory of unbuilt kits. >> > >> > I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed >> > for >> > sale on the *Hobby Shop <http://www.cwrailman.com/hobby-shop.html>* >> > page >> > of my WEB site. If there is some old wood kit you are interested in >> > drop >> > me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping >> > a >> > hole in your monthly food budget. >> > >> > Denny >> > >> > Janitor in Training >> > >> > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >> > >> > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> >> > Facebook: >> > CWRailman<http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19618	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

Allow me to quote from an earlier posting on this thread, one that sort of set the tone for me anyway: "I agree with Mike. While some of the prices are way too high (e. g. selling La Belle kits that are still available new for about 125% retail) " Now, re-read what I said. Gouging or usury. 125% of full retail. How would you describe it? Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Denny, > This isn't 1955! Youaren't earning $0.27 per hour! and neither is > the person selling something to you. In 1953 I paid $3.95 for a kit > of 3 Varney ore cars. That was 10 hours pay for me! BEFORE TAXES > When I was able to buy a MINT set of 3, couplete with sprung trucks, > screws, etc. in the original packaing for $60 that ws a bargin! > Minimum wage is $7.65 so at $76.50 I would have been paying about the > same as I paid in 1953! > I think that is a bargin. Especially since every penny stayed in > the US and is used to pay your wages, etc. None of it is going > overseas. > Don't compare this seller to eBay - way, way too often a NEW item on > eBay is a piece of junk with broken gears, missing parts, etc. NEW > often indicates nothing more than it has a box! > When I was discharged from the Navy in 1962 I could buy a 3 bedroom > rowhouse in Baltimore City as a VA repo for $2000 - that same house > today sells at more than $130,000! > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > On 6/16/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Gouging may not be as good a word as "usury" > > You see too much of this anymore. > > Folks don't know what the item costs NOW, so they buy. > > I remember several years ago someone selling #1 gauge "vintage" gas pumps. > > Until someone mentioned they were on the shelf at Target, what they > > cost.....the evilbait "seller" had no inventory, no stock, no cash > > outlay....when he got a "winner", he just drove over, bought one at Target, > > charged double the shipping, and smiled all the way to the bank. > > I try to be as informed as I can be. > > I see folks doing that (obviously a bigger issue if they are a "dealer" and > > getting that price discount, too) and I walk away...fast. > > It is a very good thing for folks to come onto forums or groups, even as > > this one is, and report such shenanigans. > > > > Dave > >> Denny, > >> It's NOT "price gouging", it's the free-market. If you find the price > >> asked > >> unreasonably high, you do not have to buy it. Gouging only comes in when > >> you "must" have it "now", like a $2 umbrella for $10 in a rainstorm. If > >> the > >> pressure to buy is no more than your desire to own it, the decision to > >> buy > >> it is not being forced upon you, and the seller is not price gouging, but > >> rather making the best deal he can as a willing seller with a willing > >> buyer. > >> Sorry, > >> Walter > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@> wrote: > >> > >> > ** > >> > > >> > > >> > I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I > >> > can > >> > understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price > >> > gouging. > >> > Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three > >> > times what similar kits sold for on Ebay. That's just way too rough. > >> > Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and > >> > a > >> > few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will > >> > stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my > >> > inventory of unbuilt kits. > >> > > >> > I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed > >> > for > >> > sale on the *Hobby Shop <http://www.cwrailman.com/hobby-shop.html>* > >> > page > >> > of my WEB site. If there is some old wood kit you are interested in > >> > drop > >> > me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping > >> > a > >> > hole in your monthly food budget. > >> > > >> > Denny > >> > > >> > Janitor in Training > >> > > >> > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > >> > > >> > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > >> > Facebook: > >> > CWRailman<http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19619	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

My first dealing with Old Model Kits was for a set of B&O passenger cars. If you've seen them on the Old Model Kits website until recently...I am to where they went. Their brass counterparts would cost me over $1,000...by a well-known dealer...unpainted. These painted and lettered cars...all five...left than $50.00 before shipping. Need a little touch up or detail underneath? Yes. No big deal. I received several emails from the website owner... very good. Would I buy the Revell U.S.S. Norton Sound from him for $546 or so? No! I'm not into ships anyway, but that model kit dates back to the mid-1950's...when I built the kit. I'm not that young at all. As things get rare (for various reasons), they are like artwork...but the kits, instructions sheets, and boxes (if mint) are factored in.   I like LaBelle Woodworking kits. I live 100+ miles south of their Cheyenne location. They are good to excellent and adding on...but where and when were some of those offerings made that Old Model Kits is selling?  Anybody want to price me a LaBelle East Broad Top caboose kit in HOn3? I've written LaBelle, asking if that kit would come back. Anybody see it re-released yet?  No sweat...Old Model Kits doesn't have one either.   Forget all the talk about capitalism and such...you buy or don't. If anything is too high, it gathers shelf dust. These days the inventories in many places (talking hobby shops on on-line sites) need to move or the next thing we see is a "Going Out of Business" sign. So, the appeal to some envisioned elite customer is so much wishful thinking. Want a brass one-of-a-kind loco? Try Brasstrains.com and go for the ACE3000? Vague memory of it from Popular Science or Popular Mechanics way back when?  Never made...no railroad bought one...$6,500 (?) and at a reduced price. "Hey, Smithsonian...why not you?"   Ebay? I have had no luck even posting a bid? And some here say the stuff comes through below par? This guy treats a client reasonably and not with this and that.   John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)   *******************************************************************************************************  --- On Sat, 6/16/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: OldModelKits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 11:32 PM   Allow me to quote from an earlier posting on this thread, one that sort of set the tone for me anyway: "I agree with Mike. While some of the prices are way too high (e. g. selling La Belle kits that are still available new for about 125% retail) " Now, re-read what I said. Gouging or usury. 125% of full retail. How would you describe it? Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Denny, > This isn't 1955! Youaren't earning $0.27 per hour! and neither is > the person selling something to you. In 1953 I paid $3.95 for a kit > of 3 Varney ore cars. That was 10 hours pay for me! BEFORE TAXES > When I was able to buy a MINT set of 3, couplete with sprung trucks, > screws, etc. in the original packaing for $60 that ws a bargin! > Minimum wage is $7.65 so at $76.50 I would have been paying about the > same as I paid in 1953! > I think that is a bargin. Especially since every penny stayed in > the US and is used to pay your wages, etc. None of it is going > overseas. > Don't compare this seller to eBay - way, way too often a NEW item on > eBay is a piece of junk with broken gears, missing parts, etc. NEW > often indicates nothing more than it has a box! > When I was discharged from the Navy in 1962 I could buy a 3 bedroom > rowhouse in Baltimore City as a VA repo for $2000 - that same house > today sells at more than $130,000! > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > On 6/16/12, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Gouging may not be as good a word as "usury" > > You see too much of this anymore. > > Folks don't know what the item costs NOW, so they buy. > > I remember several years ago someone selling #1 gauge "vintage" gas pumps. > > Until someone mentioned they were on the shelf at Target, what they > > cost.....the evilbait "seller" had no inventory, no stock, no cash > > outlay....when he got a "winner", he just drove over, bought one at Target, > > charged double the shipping, and smiled all the way to the bank. > > I try to be as informed as I can be. > > I see folks doing that (obviously a bigger issue if they are a "dealer" and > > getting that price discount, too) and I walk away...fast. > > It is a very good thing for folks to come onto forums or groups, even as > > this one is, and report such shenanigans. > > > > Dave > >> Denny, > >> It's NOT "price gouging", it's the free-market. If you find the price > >> asked > >> unreasonably high, you do not have to buy it. Gouging only comes in when > >> you "must" have it "now", like a $2 umbrella for $10 in a rainstorm. If > >> the > >> pressure to buy is no more than your desire to own it, the decision to > >> buy > >> it is not being forced upon you, and the seller is not price gouging, but > >> rather making the best deal he can as a willing seller with a willing > >> buyer. > >> Sorry, > >> Walter > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@> wrote: > >> > >> > ** > >> > > >> > > >> > I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I > >> > can > >> > understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price > >> > gouging. > >> > Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three > >> > times what similar kits sold for on Ebay. That's just way too rough. > >> > Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and > >> > a > >> > few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will > >> > stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my > >> > inventory of unbuilt kits. > >> > > >> > I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed > >> > for > >> > sale on the *Hobby Shop <http://www.cwrailman.com/hobby-shop.html>* > >> > page > >> > of my WEB site. If there is some old wood kit you are interested in > >> > drop > >> > me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping > >> > a > >> > hole in your monthly food budget. > >> > > >> > Denny > >> > > >> > Janitor in Training > >> > > >> > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > >> > > >> > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > >> > Facebook: > >> > CWRailman<http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19620	From: John Hagen	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

This is going south in a hurry.   The guy prices his stuff as he well pleases. That is his absolute right. If you feel his prices are too high, don’t buy, That is your absolute right.   LaBelle kit prices? Well LaBelle’s production has been on again – off again since forever. Okay, maybe not quite that bad but they aren’t something you can walk to your LHS and buy. Even on line finding what you want is difficult. The most likely outlet is eBay. So if it ain’t there, good luck. Way back at the start of this thread (message #19612) Mike Christian stated the guy pays well for these old kits. Considering the production history of LaBelle he probably paid top dollar not thinking they were/would be available. As I am inclined to think he does this to make a few bucks his prices end up higher than retail. By the way, “retail” these days is mspr (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price). Please take note of the word “suggested”. It indicates that resellers have the right to charge whatever they want.   If you buy from OMK, at least you have a definite price where, unlike at an auction, there is no pressure to beat other bidders. You have all the time in the world to decide. So buy or not but there is no reason for demeaning the guy in this or any other forum. Reread #1962. The guy seems to be up front and honest.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19621	From: John H	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

I am putting this in a separate message as it basically is a separate subject that has been referred to in OMK thread. I personally disagree with the use of the term "evilbay". eBay is an online business. It is a merchandizing business that allows casual sellers a chance to display their wares in a world wide forum for a rather small fee. It also allows shoppers access to those sellers wares. As with the OMK business, you are in no way forced to buy anything. You control what you spend for any object. Blaming eBay a poor buying decision on your part is, well blaming eBay for your poor decision. As near as I have been able to determine, the only "sin" eBay has committed has been to run it like a business. Does that mean they make money? Oh hell yes. that is how successful businesses work. And they are successful. There is various methods for seller's to use. They may put their wares in an auction. It may have a "reserve price" (set price unknown to bidders below which the item will not be sold). It will have a minimum bid which may or may not be reasonable. It may have a "Buy it now" (BIN) price which, for all intents and purposes takes in out the the auction arena. In fact, you can set your search to all, auction only or buy it now only. Do either of these methods force you to buy and/or pay too much? No. It is your decision. Are some BIN prices too high? Yep. Are some minimum bid prices too high? Oh yes they are. But so what? If the prices are, in your opinion. too high, don't bid or buy. Only you can control what you spend. We're not talking about gasoline or electricity here folks. Nothing model railroad-wise is a necessity unless we make it so. I see so much stuff that is priced too high. a lot of items have minimum bids that are at the top, or above the market. I'd say at least 75% of BIN are retail or so close as to be silly. But what if you are ignorant of the value? Oh come on now. If you are part of this forum you have access to the internet (thanks to Al Gore, LOL). There are people that will spend hours researching prices for computers or whatever to save $10 and yet they will accept $199.95 a DCC ready Bowser C-630. It is really simple. If it looks too high to you, it is, at least for you. ALWAYS CHECK THE COST OF SHIPPING! This is a buyer beware item. I've seen diecast at some very low prices, even some BIN, but the shipping and "handling" (putting it in a box and getting it to the transporter which often means putting in the mailbox for USPS or on the stoop for UPS) will knock your socks off. Shipping is always a part of the purchase price whether from eBay or any other on-line merchandizer. Oh yeah, include catalog and TV sales too. So what if you get a bad product? Well, is it "as advertised"? Another Buyer Beware item. READ THE AUCTION AND/OR DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY! if you get a dud per the description, you may very well have recourse through eBay. Of course sellers claim that eBay is too lax on the buyers and buyers claim eBay is too lax on sellers. In reality it's a judgement call and from what I've seen they are usually pretty fair. Anything advertised as "new" will generally get you a refund or replacement. But if you get something that had photo(s) that were fuzzy at best and had "as is" in the description and a no return policy (it is stated for every item on eBay) you are likely SOL. Who pays for shipping? Unless stated elsewise you are. It always been that since way before eBay and the internet. eBay is a useful tool that may turn against you. It allow access to buyers and sellers on a scale never seen before. It is so big because it works. Understanding how it works and reading the small print can make the possibility of getting bit rather small. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19622	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits EBT Caboose

John, When Quality Craft decided to bring out their line of EBT cars in the early 1980's, LaBelle made a decision to stop producing theirs because it was the only kit they made for that road and at that time there was little room in the hobby for competition in selling wood craftsman kits.  This is what we were told at that time by the original owners of Labelle.   You can find the EBT caboose as well as EBT 2 bay and 3 bay hoppers and a box car all sold under the Quality Craft name in a gold box.  These were all sold through hobby shops and at the EBT Fall Spectacular meets.  There was also an early hopper car sold as an EBT Coal Car available but I do not remember if the box was gold or what.  These kits may have also been available under the Gloor Craft name when the company was bought out.   While some do come up on Ebay, you can contact the Friends of the East Broad Top (FEBT) because someone always has one for sale. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > My first dealing with Old Model Kits was for a set of B&O passenger cars. If you've seen them on the Old Model Kits website until recently...I am to where they went. Their brass > counterparts would cost me over $1,000...by a well-known dealer...unpainted. These painted and lettered cars...all five...left than $50.00 before shipping. Need a little touch up or detail underneath? Yes. No big deal. I received several emails from the website owner... > very good. Would I buy the Revell U.S.S. Norton Sound from him for $546 or so? No! I'm not into ships anyway, but that model kit dates back to the mid-1950's...when I built the kit. > I'm not that young at all. As things get rare (for various reasons), they are like artwork...but > the kits, instructions sheets, and boxes (if mint) are factored in. >   > I like LaBelle Woodworking kits. I live 100+ miles south of their Cheyenne location. They are good to excellent and adding on...but where and when were some of those offerings > made that Old Model Kits is selling?  Anybody want to price me a LaBelle East Broad Top caboose kit in HOn3? I've written LaBelle, asking if that kit would come back. Anybody see it re-released yet?  No sweat...Old Model Kits doesn't have one either. >   > Forget all the talk about capitalism and such...you buy or don't. If anything is too high, it > gathers shelf dust. These days the inventories in many places (talking hobby shops on on-line sites) need to move or the next thing we see is a "Going Out of Business" sign. So, > the appeal to some envisioned elite customer is so much wishful thinking. Want a brass one-of-a-kind loco? Try Brasstrains.com and go for the ACE3000? Vague memory of it from > Popular Science or Popular Mechanics way back when?  Never made...no railroad bought one...$6,500 (?) and at a reduced price. "Hey, Smithsonian...why not you?" >   > Ebay? I have had no luck even posting a bid? And some here say the stuff comes through > below par? This guy treats a client reasonably and not with this and that. >   > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...) >   > *******************************************************************************************************  > --- On Sat, 6/16/12, trainsnwrcs idioticyahoo@... wrote: > > > From: trainsnwrcs idioticyahoo@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: OldModelKits > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 11:32 PM > > > >   > > > > Allow me to quote from an earlier posting on this thread, one that sort of set the tone for me anyway: > "I agree with Mike. While some of the prices are way too high (e. g. selling La Belle kits that are still available new for about 125% retail) " > > Now, re-read what I said. > Gouging or usury. 125% of full retail. > How would you describe it? > > Dave > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel jhbivusa@ wrote: > > > > Denny, > > This isn't 1955! Youaren't earning $0.27 per hour! and neither is > > the person selling something to you. In 1953 I paid $3.95 for a kit > > of 3 Varney ore cars. That was 10 hours pay for me! BEFORE TAXES > > When I was able to buy a MINT set of 3, couplete with sprung trucks, > > screws, etc. in the original packaing for $60 that ws a bargin! > > Minimum wage is $7.65 so at $76.50 I would have been paying about the > > same as I paid in 1953! > > I think that is a bargin. Especially since every penny stayed in > > the US and is used to pay your wages, etc. None of it is going > > overseas. > > Don't compare this seller to eBay - way, way too often a NEW item on > > eBay is a piece of junk with broken gears, missing parts, etc. NEW > > often indicates nothing more than it has a box! > > When I was discharged from the Navy in 1962 I could buy a 3 bedroom > > rowhouse in Baltimore City as a VA repo for $2000 - that same house > > today sells at more than $130,000! > > > > Jake Bechtel > > Gadsden, AL > > > > On 6/16/12, trainsnwrcs idioticyahoo@ wrote: > > > Gouging may not be as good a word as "usury" > > > You see too much of this anymore. > > > Folks don't know what the item costs NOW, so they buy. > > > I remember several years ago someone selling #1 gauge "vintage" gas pumps. > > > Until someone mentioned they were on the shelf at Target, what they > > > cost.....the evilbait "seller" had no inventory, no stock, no cash > > > outlay....when he got a "winner", he just drove over, bought one at Target, > > > charged double the shipping, and smiled all the way to the bank. > > > I try to be as informed as I can be. > > > I see folks doing that (obviously a bigger issue if they are a "dealer" and > > > getting that price discount, too) and I walk away...fast. > > > It is a very good thing for folks to come onto forums or groups, even as > > > this one is, and report such shenanigans. > > > > > > Dave > > >> Denny, > > >> It's NOT "price gouging", it's the free-market. If you find the price > > >> asked > > >> unreasonably high, you do not have to buy it. Gouging only comes in when > > >> you "must" have it "now", like a $2 umbrella for $10 in a rainstorm. If > > >> the > > >> pressure to buy is no more than your desire to own it, the decision to > > >> buy > > >> it is not being forced upon you, and the seller is not price gouging, but > > >> rather making the best deal he can as a willing seller with a willing > > >> buyer. > > >> Sorry, > > >> Walter > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@> wrote: > > >> > > >> > ** > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I checked out the prices on the items listed on that site and while I > > >> > can > > >> > understand making a profit this comes under the heading of price > > >> > gouging. > > >> > Many of those kits are listed at least double and in many cases three > > >> > times what similar kits sold for on Ebay. That's just way too rough. > > >> > Considering the few disappointments I have had with Ebay purchases and > > >> > a > > >> > few pleasant surprises with kits having addition upgrade items, I will > > >> > stick with Ebay for any items however those are few considering my > > >> > inventory of unbuilt kits. > > >> > > > >> > I may have mentioned this before but I have a few vintage items listed > > >> > for > > >> > sale on the *Hobby Shop <http://www.cwrailman.com/hobby-shop.html>* > > >> > page > > >> > of my WEB site. If there is some old wood kit you are interested in > > >> > drop > > >> > me a line as I may have it or know where you can get it without ripping > > >> > a > > >> > hole in your monthly food budget. > > >> > > > >> > Denny > > >> > > > >> > Janitor in Training > > >> > > > >> > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > >> > > > >> > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > >> > Facebook: > > >> > CWRailman<http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19623	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

John's message seems to be that it helps to understand something like eBay before you bitch about it. I'm 75 myself and use eBay frequently to buy and sell (hey, I don't mind telling you that I build high end HO stuff and sell it at high end prices and expect to pay the same for stuff I want these days), and a lot of this complaining reminds me of other "old timers" in my community who really won't (or can't) keep up with the times--like using computers for instance because they are somehow evil or whatever. Or accepting the fact that gasoline is no longer 37 cents a gallon. I could go on . . . .     In a message dated 6/17/2012 10:09:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sprinthag@... writes: I am putting this in a separate message as it basically is a separate subject that has been referred to in OMK thread. I personally disagree with the use of the term "evilbay". eBay is an online business. It is a merchandizing business that allows casual sellers a chance to display their wares in a world wide forum for a rather small fee. It also allows shoppers access to those sellers wares. As with the OMK business, you are in no way forced to buy anything. You control what you spend for any object. Blaming eBay a poor buying decision on your part is, well blaming eBay for your poor decision. As near as I have been able to determine, the only "sin" eBay has committed has been to run it like a business. Does that mean they make money? Oh hell yes. that is how successful businesses work. And they are successful. There is various methods for seller's to use. They may put their wares in an auction. It may have a "reserve price" (set price unknown to bidders below which the item will not be sold). It will have a minimum bid which may or may not be reasonable. It may have a "Buy it now" (BIN) price which, for all intents and purposes takes in out the the auction arena. In fact, you can set your search to all, auction only or buy it now only. Do either of these methods force you to buy and/or pay too much? No. It is your decision. Are some BIN prices too high? Yep. Are some minimum bid prices too high? Oh yes they are. But so what? If the prices are, in your opinion. too high, don't bid or buy. Only you can control what you spend. We're not talking about gasoline or electricity here folks. Nothing model railroad-wise is a necessity unless we make it so. I see so much stuff that is priced too high. a lot of items have minimum bids that are at the top, or above the market. I'd say at least 75% of BIN are retail or so close as to be silly. But what if you are ignorant of the value? Oh come on now. If you are part of this forum you have access to the internet (thanks to Al Gore, LOL). There are people that will spend hours researching prices for computers or whatever to save $10 and yet they will accept $199.95 a DCC ready Bowser C-630. It is really simple. If it looks too high to you, it is, at least for you. ALWAYS CHECK THE COST OF SHIPPING! This is a buyer beware item. I've seen diecast at some very low prices, even some BIN, but the shipping and "handling" (putting it in a box and getting it to the transporter which often means putting in the mailbox for USPS or on the stoop for UPS) will knock your socks off. Shipping is always a part of the purchase price whether from eBay or any other on-line merchandizer. Oh yeah, include catalog and TV sales too. So what if you get a bad product? Well, is it "as advertised"? Another Buyer Beware item. READ THE AUCTION AND/OR DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY! if you get a dud per the description, you may very well have recourse through eBay. Of course sellers claim that eBay is too lax on the buyers and buyers claim eBay is too lax on sellers. In reality it's a judgement call and from what I've seen they are usually pretty fair. Anything advertised as "new" will generally get you a refund or replacement. But if you get something that had photo(s) that were fuzzy at best and had "as is" in the description and a no return policy (it is stated for every item on eBay) you are likely SOL. Who pays for shipping? Unless stated elsewise you are. It always been that since way before eBay and the internet. eBay is a useful tool that may turn against you. It allow access to buyers and sellers on a scale never seen before. It is so big because it works. Understanding how it works and reading the small print can make the possibility of getting bit rather small. John Hagen ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! 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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19624	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

I would never use the term "evilbay". The proper term is "evilbait", with their "enforcer" sidekick. PayUp, Pal. You read it on forums all the time.....not as advertised (you can take that "buyer beware" stuff and put it elsewhere) , photos and description do not come anywhere close to what you got....trying to get evilbait or payup, pal to enforce is impossible. You see it in auto related forums.....these morons take a photo off the algore internet, publish it, with a high dollar price tag, yet the car in the photo actually belongs to someone on the forum, and it ain't for sale. Complaint after complaint to the bait and the pal, auction stays up. When you've been around a while, you can figure it out. The newcomer has no idea. Go ahead, support your local hoodlums! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I am putting this in a separate message as it basically is a separate subject that has been referred to in OMK thread. > > I personally disagree with the use of the term "evilbay". eBay is an online business. It is a merchandizing business that allows casual sellers a chance to display their wares in a world wide forum for a rather small fee. It also allows shoppers access to those sellers wares. As with the OMK business, you are in no way forced to buy anything. You control what you spend for any object. Blaming eBay a poor buying decision on your part is, well blaming eBay for your poor decision. > > As near as I have been able to determine, the only "sin" eBay has committed has been to run it like a business. Does that mean they make money? Oh hell yes. that is how successful businesses work. And they are successful. > > There is various methods for seller's to use. They may put their wares in an auction. It may have a "reserve price" (set price unknown to bidders below which the item will not be sold). It will have a minimum bid which may or may not be reasonable. It may have a "Buy it now" (BIN) price which, for all intents and purposes takes in out the the auction arena. In fact, you can set your search to all, auction only or buy it now only. Do either of these methods force you to buy and/or pay too much? No. It is your decision. Are some BIN prices too high? Yep. Are some minimum bid prices too high? Oh yes they are. But so what? If the prices are, in your opinion. too high, don't bid or buy. Only you can control what you spend. We're not talking about gasoline or electricity here folks. Nothing model railroad-wise is a necessity unless we make it so. > > I see so much stuff that is priced too high. a lot of items have minimum bids that are at the top, or above the market. I'd say at least 75% of BIN are retail or so close as to be silly. But what if you are ignorant of the value? Oh come on now. If you are part of this forum you have access to the internet (thanks to Al Gore, LOL). There are people that will spend hours researching prices for computers or whatever to save $10 and yet they will accept $199.95 a DCC ready Bowser C-630. It is really simple. If it looks too high to you, it is, at least for you. > > ALWAYS CHECK THE COST OF SHIPPING! This is a buyer beware item. I've seen diecast at some very low prices, even some BIN, but the shipping and "handling" (putting it in a box and getting it to the transporter which often means putting in the mailbox for USPS or on the stoop for UPS) will knock your socks off. Shipping is always a part of the purchase price whether from eBay or any other on-line merchandizer. Oh yeah, include catalog and TV sales too. > > So what if you get a bad product? Well, is it "as advertised"? Another Buyer Beware item. READ THE AUCTION AND/OR DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY! if you get a dud per the description, you may very well have recourse through eBay. Of course sellers claim that eBay is too lax on the buyers and buyers claim eBay is too lax on sellers. In reality it's a judgement call and from what I've seen they are usually pretty fair. Anything advertised as "new" will generally get you a refund or replacement. But if you get something that had photo(s) that were fuzzy at best and had "as is" in the description and a no return policy (it is stated for every item on eBay) you are likely SOL. > > Who pays for shipping? Unless stated elsewise you are. It always been that since way before eBay and the internet. > > eBay is a useful tool that may turn against you. It allow access to buyers and sellers on a scale never seen before. It is so big because it works. Understanding how it works and reading the small print can make the possibility of getting bit rather small. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19625	From: Lawrence	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

Wow and holy frijoles. I just looked at the site ... if I could sell the stuff in my basement at half the listed prices I would be rich. $42 for an old Athearn kit? Recently these have been going for $5 to $10 at local swaps as they show up out of the basements of the deceased. Yep, I can buy or not buy, and that is of course how it works. That doesn't mean I can't comment/complain/bitch about the prices anymore than I can't comment on great bargains or the use of the word "rare" in ebay listings! Maybe the sadist part is the number of things that come out of the basement that have never been used because the now deceased owner wouldn't be able to say NIB. Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > This is going south in a hurry. > > > > The guy prices his stuff as he well pleases. That is his absolute right. If you feel his prices are too high, don’t buy, That is your absolute right. > > > > LaBelle kit prices? Well LaBelle’s production has been on again â€" off again since forever. Okay, maybe not quite that bad but they aren’t something you can walk to your LHS and buy. Even on line finding what you want is difficult. The most likely outlet is eBay. So if it ain’t there, good luck. Way back at the start of this thread (message #19612) Mike Christian stated the guy pays well for these old kits. Considering the production history of LaBelle he probably paid top dollar not thinking they were/would be available. As I am inclined to think he does this to make a few bucks his prices end up higher than retail. By the way, “retail” these days is mspr (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price). Please take note of the word “suggested”. It indicates that resellers have the right to charge whatever they want. > > > > If you buy from OMK, at least you have a definite price where, unlike at an auction, there is no pressure to beat other bidders. You have all the time in the world to decide. So buy or not but there is no reason for demeaning the guy in this or any other forum. Reread #1962. The guy seems to be up front and honest. > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19626	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

You didn't look at the home page of that site - $85 and up for old Lindbergh and Revell airplane kits that sold for $3 when I was a kid! I am truly whelmed. I am curious as to the kind of person who would spend that kind of money and then actually build the kit - he would instantly reduce it's (presumed) value to $0. Mike On 6/17/2012 12:35 PM, Lawrence wrote: > Wow and holy frijoles. I just looked at the site ... if I could sell the > stuff in my basement at half the listed prices I would be rich. $42 for > an old Athearn kit? Recently these have been going for $5 to $10 at > local swaps as they show up out of the basements of the deceased. Yep, I > can buy or not buy, and that is of course how it works. That doesn't > mean I can't comment/complain/bitch about the prices anymore than I > can't comment on great bargains or the use of the word "rare" in ebay > listings! Maybe the sadist part is the number of things that come out of > the basement that have never been used because the now deceased owner > wouldn't be able to say NIB. > > Dale in Spokane

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19627	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

-- The juvenile terminology gets quite tiresome very soon. Roger Aultman -- trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: ============= I would never use the term "evilbay". The proper term is "evilbait", with their "enforcer" sidekick. PayUp, Pal. You read it on forums all the time.....not as advertised (you can take that "buyer beware" stuff and put it elsewhere) , photos and description do not come anywhere close to what you got....trying to get evilbait or payup, pal to enforce is impossible. You see it in auto related forums.....these morons take a photo off the algore internet, publish it, with a high dollar price tag, yet the car in the photo actually belongs to someone on the forum, and it ain't for sale. Complaint after complaint to the bait and the pal, auction stays up. When you've been around a while, you can figure it out. The newcomer has no idea. Go ahead, support your local hoodlums! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I am putting this in a separate message as it basically is a separate subject that has been referred to in OMK thread. > > I personally disagree with the use of the term "evilbay". eBay is an online business. It is a merchandizing business that allows casual sellers a chance to display their wares in a world wide forum for a rather small fee. It also allows shoppers access to those sellers wares. As with the OMK business, you are in no way forced to buy anything. You control what you spend for any object. Blaming eBay a poor buying decision on your part is, well blaming eBay for your poor decision. > > As near as I have been able to determine, the only "sin" eBay has committed has been to run it like a business. Does that mean they make money? Oh hell yes. that is how successful businesses work. And they are successful. > > There is various methods for seller's to use. They may put their wares in an auction. It may have a "reserve price" (set price unknown to bidders below which the item will not be sold). It will have a minimum bid which may or may not be reasonable. It may have a "Buy it now" (BIN) price which, for all intents and purposes takes in out the the auction arena. In fact, you can set your search to all, auction only or buy it now only. Do either of these methods force you to buy and/or pay too much? No. It is your decision. Are some BIN prices too high? Yep. Are some minimum bid prices too high? Oh yes they are. But so what? If the prices are, in your opinion. too high, don't bid or buy. Only you can control what you spend. We're not talking about gasoline or electricity here folks. Nothing model railroad-wise is a necessity unless we make it so. > > I see so much stuff that is priced too high. a lot of items have minimum bids that are at the top, or above the market. I'd say at least 75% of BIN are retail or so close as to be silly. But what if you are ignorant of the value? Oh come on now. If you are part of this forum you have access to the internet (thanks to Al Gore, LOL). There are people that will spend hours researching prices for computers or whatever to save $10 and yet they will accept $199.95 a DCC ready Bowser C-630. It is really simple. If it looks too high to you, it is, at least for you. > > ALWAYS CHECK THE COST OF SHIPPING! This is a buyer beware item. I've seen diecast at some very low prices, even some BIN, but the shipping and "handling" (putting it in a box and getting it to the transporter which often means putting in the mailbox for USPS or on the stoop for UPS) will knock your socks off. Shipping is always a part of the purchase price whether from eBay or any other on-line merchandizer. Oh yeah, include catalog and TV sales too. > > So what if you get a bad product? Well, is it "as advertised"? Another Buyer Beware item. READ THE AUCTION AND/OR DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY! if you get a dud per the description, you may very well have recourse through eBay. Of course sellers claim that eBay is too lax on the buyers and buyers claim eBay is too lax on sellers. In reality it's a judgement call and from what I've seen they are usually pretty fair. Anything advertised as "new" will generally get you a refund or replacement. But if you get something that had photo(s) that were fuzzy at best and had "as is" in the description and a no return policy (it is stated for every item on eBay) you are likely SOL. > > Who pays for shipping? Unless stated elsewise you are. It always been that since way before eBay and the internet. > > eBay is a useful tool that may turn against you. It allow access to buyers and sellers on a scale never seen before. It is so big because it works. Understanding how it works and reading the small print can make the possibility of getting bit rather small. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19628	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

I gotta agree. I'll admit to making a couple of foolish purchases over the last couple of years. But I restrict myself and the foolish buys were about $7 and $15, the result of not paying close attention to the description and following too many items of interest at once. On one I'll have to make or get more parts to build it; on another I should re-sell it, it's not what I want and it's still wanted by others. I've noticed that everything I've won through eBay arrived, with the exception of a couple of items that were never sent to me and the seller immediately refunded me on his own claiming he had over-sold in the auction. Odd, but at least I was completely refunded. Conversely I got stung twice in the hobby lists by buying through someone selling in the hobby lists and never receiving the items. The last one was going to ship it the next week and I never heard from him again. Which was strange because my deal was to send him some copies soon after. He never asked about those and there was nothing after he promised to ship next week. Strange or a clue.... Live and learn. I've done much better through eBay. I've learned to be patient and watchful. If I don't win on an auction because I won't pay too much for an item, there will be another one of the same soon enough that I will win in or be the only one that noticed the item. In the last 2-3 years I've been able to get several items I wanted decades ago and never saw in the local hobby shops. I'm not the fellow that gets carried away and pays outrageous prices for the item. If it's overpriced I'll find one that isn't overpriced. If it needs a new paint job and is low priced, I'll gladly buy it, prep it for painting, and enjoy repainting it instead of paying a lot more for a collectable, pristine version. I bought some low valued near junk items that were damaged over time because they were scratch-built custom items that were interesting designs in themselves. One is a homemade full length Doodlebug that will get some needed bodywork and a contemporary drive to return to operation. Another is an open platform trolley length executive car with an interesting assortment of hand cut arch windows, with a full interior. Mostly crafted out of now damaged card stock carside walls. That one won't be rebuilt. Instead it will be reborn into a better built clone of its appealing design. Because of eBay this classic example of the scratch builders art wasn't destroyed. Something of what a fellow dreamed up and created will live on. The builder likely made it over sixty years ago and is not with us today. But for my being the only fellow to go after the item, it likely would have been landfilled. Here's where I go crazy...... I have been using eBay for the last 2-3 years to secure old kits like the various Westwood kits series and some of the other long gone makers of kits to use as fodder for creative model engineering. Often I don't win an auction and I settle for what images were used in the auction page. I'll just leave it at mentioning that those old kits that I could not get from other sources over many more years than the few I recently got via eBay showed me a lot about what construction and design didn't work so well and what does work well, yet could be improved upon. That executive observation trolley like car could be kit-bashed as a wooden era car from the box of MDC passenger car bodies I bought on eBay a year ago. And I'll do one like that while being grateful I was able to get some boxes of many of the MDC older passenger car bodies as kit-bashing fodder. I don't think I ever would have got those any other way. You can approach eBay and other resellers as places to buy collectable museum items and expect to pay top dollar accordingly. Or you can go for the not museum quality items and refinish, complete, or wildly kit bash from a huge selection of modestly priced not-perfect items like a box of MDC passenger car shells, the surviving partial kit of the long out of production Walthers 70 foot Business car, or the never quite finished custom dreamed and scratch built Doodlebug body that needs a bit of body work on the corners, a few details, and a new drive truck. You are reading from a fellow that now has four of the oddball AristoCraft 4-2-2's and about 24 each of the MDC Pullman Palace and Overland passenger car body shells and roofs. The 4-2-2 are shop worn, but they soon won't be. They are sound and complete. I've long wanted some vintage passenger trains and keeping my eye open on eBay has made it possible at low cost. I bought my first 4-4-2 over 20 years ago at a swap meet and never expected to see another. Then I noticed they were appearing in eBay and not always selling for high prices. The collectable mint ones sell for high prices, but not so with shop worn ones that need a repaint, regilding, and replacements for lost foil lettering panels. I'll happily slice and dice the MDC passenger bodies to make a fleet of passenger cars sitting upon scratch built strip styrene floors that copy the original MDC floors, except with 'steel' main beams. So let the others pursue their collectables at whatever price they wish to pay. As long as the non- collectable fodder to build with is out there in abundance and at modest prices, everyone wins. If we all can't afford to be collectors, it's a lot of fun and more affordable to be model railroad builders. You'll still be able to get a nice affordable collectors item from time to time. I know I'll never be able to build a large collection of museum quality items. So a few of them is just fine for me. They won't be ones that I spent a lot for and they still will be nice pieces. I'm expecting delivery on a vintage Fleischman wrecking crane chassis. There is nothing above the floor of the chassis but the trucks and most importantly the working out-riggers and leveling screw jacks are intact. I've never had a model wrecker with working out-riggers and levelers before. I will enjoy putting a swap meet Athearn Bucyrus wrecker top on her or maybe scratching something like that double ended one I saw PRR used. That diagram is on line and maybe on my hard drive already. I'll follow the diagram and build to the details of the Athearn I already have. I do like eBays collectable and usable left-overs! And John...... That cute little custom executive observation will be reborn a further second time as a laser cut model following a mix of the design elements of the Westwood, MDC, Red Ball, Master Class Carter coaches. It looks like I'll finally place my order for the machine this week. So's the plan. I've got a few ideas for that machine. It's going to cost me about as much as the typical premium HO brass model or less than the premium level O scale contemporary brass model. As an example of what you can shift your funds into if you don't apply it to the higher priced collectables from eBay and the like....... Let others buy those collectables for as such as they wish to spend. I prefer to build and operate instead of collect. I could not buy pristine examples of the Mantua Talgo streamliner. But I was able to get two of the engine shells and one of the articulated car sets. The shell are undec and a bit shopworn. A wisp of bodywork, some gleaming chrome and stainless foil skin on them, full LED lighting and DCC sound along with a contemporary power truck and they will be far superior to the collectable original versions. The articulated car set is shop worn and I think I'll take them apart do a wisp of body work on them and clone them with RTV. Finally I'll restore them to original and put them on display. I think I'll clone the engine shell and keep one as is. I'd like to finish it to match the original factory paint and I'll put her on a suitable dummy mech. As for the clones...... Wouldn't a nice eight car Tyco Talgo train set look great!! Maybe at least three of those train sets? One of them should be turbine sound powered... I think two of those train sets will cost me as much as one pristine collectable version. Maybe the three of them for the cost of one pristine collectable. But I'm using the scraps and left-overs I find on eBay that cost me a fraction of what the true collectable does. So leave the collectables to others. The rest of what's on eBay is a lot more fun to gather and work with, and so much more affordable. Go for the great and under-valued instead. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2012, at 9:09 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > I am putting this in a separate message as it basically is a separate subject that has been referred to in OMK thread. > > I personally disagree with the use of the term "evilbay". eBay is an online business. It is a merchandizing business that allows casual sellers a chance to display their wares in a world wide forum for a rather small fee. It also allows shoppers access to those sellers wares. As with the OMK business, you are in no way forced to buy anything. You control what you spend for any object. Blaming eBay a poor buying decision on your part is, well blaming eBay for your poor decision. > > ..........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19629	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

I think that if you have so much money that the price isn't a concern; you won't mind building it. I'd bet it goes on display in an expensive cabinet after that. I found the Renwal Atomic Cannon I always wanted there for a very impressive price as well as the Renwal working Dock crane I bought for $25 a long time ago second-hand. I was quite surprised at it present value. I'm going return to that project, replace it's missing clutch with suitable R/C mechanical parts, load her up with lights and finish the partly built thing. Maybe with DCC control and sound and certainly with powered rail trucks instead of the kit dummy trucks. DCC would be perfect to operate the model from it's two guide rails. A mini camera in the operators cab would really add to the operation of the classic model dock crane. An updated collectable? There's a fellow that does this to $400 die cast model mining shovels that then sell for slightly under $4,000. Except he doesn't know about the cameras. Good thing, he'd likely sell his operating shovels for $5,000 then, Maybe I should be selling those things? Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > You didn't look at the home page of that site - $85 and up for old > Lindbergh and Revell airplane kits that sold for $3 when I was a kid! I > am truly whelmed. > > I am curious as to the kind of person who would spend that kind of money > and then actually build the kit - he would instantly reduce it's > (presumed) value to $0. > > Mike > > On 6/17/2012 12:35 PM, Lawrence wrote: >> Wow and holy frijoles. I just looked at the site ... if I could sell the >> stuff in my basement at half the listed prices I would be rich. $42 for >> an old Athearn kit? Recently these have been going for $5 to $10 at >> local swaps as they show up out of the basements of the deceased. Yep, I >> can buy or not buy, and that is of course how it works. That doesn't >> mean I can't comment/complain/bitch about the prices anymore than I >> can't comment on great bargains or the use of the word "rare" in ebay >> listings! Maybe the sadist part is the number of things that come out of >> the basement that have never been used because the now deceased owner >> wouldn't be able to say NIB. >> >> Dale in Spokane > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19630	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits

Why did the string go south?   Every time someone comes on list to brag about the great bargain they just bought not one person claims they were a thief for the steal they just made. Instead, congratulatory messages follow one after another.   Whenever anyone asks a higher price than some folks wish to pay, the seller is considered a thief.   I owned a large and respected retail train store for several decades before MSRP meant nothing. Folks would bring in an "old train" they wanted to sell. Often it was a Taiwan clunker that hadn't survived a long winter's week from the big box store. But frequently it might be an Athearn (for example) still available at that time. I would show them the new item and its price and offer 1/4 to 1/3 that for a moderately used item. (to resell at half price).Typical response? "Oh, this is an OLD one, it is worth far more than those new ones."  On the other hand, the longer my customers saw a NEW item on the shelves, the less they expected it to be worth. [Unlike their own money sitting in a savings account]. The greatest turnout of customers occured when a rumor started the shop was closing. After all, then the price should be give away. When it wasn't, they turned away. During that time I always noted that many slow moving items in the Walthers catalog went up on price every year or two. Not precause of new production runs, but because of stranded working capital.   Mental price gymnastics are interesting, if seldom consistently logical.   In addition to the new products we make and distribute on our website http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ , I have a YARDSALE page with "buy now" prices.  On those items known to be currently available, I show the current list and the yardsale asking price.   Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19631	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

Your attitude needs adjusting. Those terms are VERY descriptive. If you fall into the categories discussed, I am sorry. > > -- > The juvenile terminology gets quite tiresome very soon. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > -- trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > ============= > I would never use the term "evilbay". The proper term is "evilbait", with their "enforcer" sidekick. PayUp, Pal. > > You read it on forums all the time.....not as advertised (you can take that "buyer beware" stuff and put it elsewhere) , photos and description do not come anywhere close to what you got....trying to get evilbait or payup, pal to enforce is impossible. > > You see it in auto related forums.....these morons take a photo off the algore internet, publish it, with a high dollar price tag, yet the car in the photo actually belongs to someone on the forum, and it ain't for sale. > > Complaint after complaint to the bait and the pal, auction stays up. > > When you've been around a while, you can figure it out. The newcomer has no idea. > > Go ahead, support your local hoodlums! > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I am putting this in a separate message as it basically is a separate subject that has been referred to in OMK thread. > > > > I personally disagree with the use of the term "evilbay". eBay is an online business. It is a merchandizing business that allows casual sellers a chance to display their wares in a world wide forum for a rather small fee. It also allows shoppers access to those sellers wares. As with the OMK business, you are in no way forced to buy anything. You control what you spend for any object. Blaming eBay a poor buying decision on your part is, well blaming eBay for your poor decision. > > > > As near as I have been able to determine, the only "sin" eBay has committed has been to run it like a business. Does that mean they make money? Oh hell yes. that is how successful businesses work. And they are successful. > > > > There is various methods for seller's to use. They may put their wares in an auction. It may have a "reserve price" (set price unknown to bidders below which the item will not be sold). It will have a minimum bid which may or may not be reasonable. It may have a "Buy it now" (BIN) price which, for all intents and purposes takes in out the the auction arena. In fact, you can set your search to all, auction only or buy it now only. Do either of these methods force you to buy and/or pay too much? No. It is your decision. Are some BIN prices too high? Yep. Are some minimum bid prices too high? Oh yes they are. But so what? If the prices are, in your opinion. too high, don't bid or buy. Only you can control what you spend. We're not talking about gasoline or electricity here folks. Nothing model railroad-wise is a necessity unless we make it so. > > > > I see so much stuff that is priced too high. a lot of items have minimum bids that are at the top, or above the market. I'd say at least 75% of BIN are retail or so close as to be silly. But what if you are ignorant of the value? Oh come on now. If you are part of this forum you have access to the internet (thanks to Al Gore, LOL). There are people that will spend hours researching prices for computers or whatever to save $10 and yet they will accept $199.95 a DCC ready Bowser C-630. It is really simple. If it looks too high to you, it is, at least for you. > > > > ALWAYS CHECK THE COST OF SHIPPING! This is a buyer beware item. I've seen diecast at some very low prices, even some BIN, but the shipping and "handling" (putting it in a box and getting it to the transporter which often means putting in the mailbox for USPS or on the stoop for UPS) will knock your socks off. Shipping is always a part of the purchase price whether from eBay or any other on-line merchandizer. Oh yeah, include catalog and TV sales too. > > > > So what if you get a bad product? Well, is it "as advertised"? Another Buyer Beware item. READ THE AUCTION AND/OR DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY! if you get a dud per the description, you may very well have recourse through eBay. Of course sellers claim that eBay is too lax on the buyers and buyers claim eBay is too lax on sellers. In reality it's a judgement call and from what I've seen they are usually pretty fair. Anything advertised as "new" will generally get you a refund or replacement. But if you get something that had photo(s) that were fuzzy at best and had "as is" in the description and a no return policy (it is stated for every item on eBay) you are likely SOL. > > > > Who pays for shipping? Unless stated elsewise you are. It always been that since way before eBay and the internet. > > > > eBay is a useful tool that may turn against you. It allow access to buyers and sellers on a scale never seen before. It is so big because it works. Understanding how it works and reading the small print can make the possibility of getting bit rather small. > > > > John Hagen > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19632	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Apparently

based upon recent responses supporting evilbait, payup, pal, gouging and usury, I can only surmise that those defending such are actively engaged in these organizations and activities. Not worth dealing with. Long time here, short departure. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19633	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently

WOW! Amazing. Roger A., you are right. Walter On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:30 PM, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:   based upon recent responses supporting evilbait, payup, pal, gouging and usury, I can only surmise that those defending such are actively engaged in these organizations and activities. Not worth dealing with. Long time here, short departure. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19634	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: scratch built Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8060.JPG Since I finished my Mogul for now (might paint) I started again on the Brass scratch built engine I bought. I started on the tender which had some dings on the sides and needed work on the back top. Also the coal bin was never finished. I started to add pieces to make it more presentable. A lot of filing and filling on another project. Due to all the work needed it will have to be painted, decaled and especially coal added as previous owner/builder had some kind of clear "epoxy" in bottom of coal bin and on top of that had Hydrocal as a load to just put coal on top but I had to take apart to add to it. I soon will have the basic repair done and will start details like handrails ,ladders, etc. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19635	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently...NOT!

I do not subscribe to supporting gougers and crooks. EBay is a farce to me. I had long heard of their receiving "complaints".  I have dealt with private sellers who list through on-line websites. So far, no crooks...lucky. I found Old Model Kits while researching a Web Search. I have made one model railroad purchase and was treated very well by the owner who communicated with me several times. Are some of his items very expensive? I would say so. Do I buy them? No. Have I engaged in selling anything? No.     I saw one local (Denver area) model kits distributor go belly up several decades ago because his sales philosophy (expressed to would be client retailers) was "the modeler will pay whatever the market dictates."  The retailers bought from distributrors elsewhere. He went out of business.   This whole thing started over somebody's issue with Old Model Kits' model railroad offerings. Look at the inventory he has. It's very small. Some of this same stuff appears elsewhere, and I don't mean on eBay (which I don't care to hunt upon.)  The bulk of his overall inventory is outside the model railroading hobby (i.e., plastic aircraft and military models, old flying kits, etc.)    Now...if you think I endorse (or some others) the "gouging" some people engage in, guess again. Broad charges of collusion in business duplicity could be liable in nature. You won't see me listing anything for sale on the Net or in hobby magazines. I encourage anyone who is simply buying to use good sense in buying. If it's too high...pass it by...if it looks too good to be true..pass it by. Set your own range of comfort. If a seller, whoever, cannot work with you (like waiting a few weeks until you are paid), forget it. "Consignment" requirements to pay all up front are "iffy" and can be risky to buyer and/or seller.  If the "go-between" part/lister cannot wait or won't see if the owner can wait for two or three equal payments, good luck to them. They risk the item's collecting dust on a shelf. Simple as that. They don't want your business...they want the quick sale...if they can get it. Trust between "buyer" and "seller" takes time. That has been my experience.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) ********************************************************************************************************** --- On Sun, 6/17/12, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Apparently To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 17, 2012, 2:56 PM   WOW! Amazing. Roger A., you are right. Walter On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:30 PM, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:   based upon recent responses supporting evilbait, payup, pal, gouging and usury, I can only surmise that those defending such are actively engaged in these organizations and activities. Not worth dealing with. Long time here, short departure. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19636	From: Joe Donato	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently...NOT!

very well said John and that is an approach we take when selling at shows.  This has allowed us to build up quite a following and we have even been able to weed out the ones that take advantage of our fair pricing to just buy out certain items to resell at higher prices.  This happened at our first show we did and sold a bunch of vintage faller and kibri houses to someone who said "collected" older european built and unbuilt kits.  We were selling most of the houses for and buildings for $5 to $10 each as we had paid on average $2-$3 for the small ones and $6-$7 for the large ones.  They bought everything we had and some of the stuff we knew was unique but we didnt care we made some money and thought we were making a "collector" happy.  Well a quick search on ebay the following week saw that most of our exact stuff was listed (we knew it was the seller as they told us what city they were in and the building that were missing pieces were listed the same way).  Some of the buildings sold for $30-$50 each.  At the next show of course they came by as they  we wanting me to bring some more stuff that I had at home.  As they came to the table I asked did they have fun fixing and cleaning up what I sold them.  They had a dumb look on their face and my fiance said to them "you know you could have at least thanked us"  they were speechless and walked away from the table. There ruse was up and to this day I will still not sell them anything until the end of the show and everyone that I know are "real collectors" have come by and got their goodies from us..   Joe Donato & Missy Soltis Bryler Trading Company LLC TCA Member #12-66954 From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Apparently...NOT!     I do not subscribe to supporting gougers and crooks. EBay is a farce to me. I had long heard of their receiving "complaints".  I have dealt with private sellers who list through on-line websites. So far, no crooks...lucky. I found Old Model Kits while researching a Web Search. I have made one model railroad purchase and was treated very well by the owner who communicated with me several times. Are some of his items very expensive? I would say so. Do I buy them? No. Have I engaged in selling anything? No.     I saw one local (Denver area) model kits distributor go belly up several decades ago because his sales philosophy (expressed to would be client retailers) was "the modeler will pay whatever the market dictates."  The retailers bought from distributrors elsewhere. He went out of business.   This whole thing started over somebody's issue with Old Model Kits' model railroad offerings. Look at the inventory he has. It's very small. Some of this same stuff appears elsewhere, and I don't mean on eBay (which I don't care to hunt upon.)  The bulk of his overall inventory is outside the model railroading hobby (i.e., plastic aircraft and military models, old flying kits, etc.)    Now...if you think I endorse (or some others) the "gouging" some people engage in, guess again. Broad charges of collusion in business duplicity could be liable in nature. You won't see me listing anything for sale on the Net or in hobby magazines. I encourage anyone who is simply buying to use good sense in buying. If it's too high...pass it by...if it looks too good to be true..pass it by. Set your own range of comfort. If a seller, whoever, cannot work with you (like waiting a few weeks until you are paid), forget it. "Consignment" requirements to pay all up front are "iffy" and can be risky to buyer and/or seller.  If the "go-between" part/lister cannot wait or won't see if the owner can wait for two or three equal payments, good luck to them. They risk the item's collecting dust on a shelf. Simple as that. They don't want your business...they want the quick sale...if they can get it. Trust between "buyer" and "seller" takes time. That has been my experience.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) ********************************************************************************************************** --- On Sun, 6/17/12, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Apparently To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 17, 2012, 2:56 PM   WOW! Amazing. Roger A., you are right. Walter On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:30 PM, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:   based upon recent responses supporting evilbait, payup, pal, gouging and usury, I can only surmise that those defending such are actively engaged in these organizations and activities. Not worth dealing with. Long time here, short departure. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19637	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

On 6/17/2012 11:56 AM, raul@... wrote: > -- > The juvenile terminology gets quite tiresome very soon. Roger Aultman > > > > Thank you. The discussions of the pros and cons of eBay and the pricing philosophy of other businesses is off topic. I appreciate it if you fellows would let these threads die. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19638	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently

On 6/17/2012 3:30 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > based upon recent responses supporting evilbait, payup, pal, gouging and usury, I can only surmise that those defending such are actively engaged in these organizations and activities. > > Not worth dealing with. > > Long time here, short departure. > > Dave > > Dave has left the group by his own choice, so let's let it drop.\ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19639	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Apparently

Amen! On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   On 6/17/2012 3:30 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > based upon recent responses supporting evilbait, payup, pal, gouging and usury, I can only surmise that those defending such are actively engaged in these organizations and activities. > > Not worth dealing with. > > Long time here, short departure. > > Dave > > Dave has left the group by his own choice, so let's let it drop.\ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19640	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: scratch built Pacific

Jim, Since you are apparently the last person working on a locomotive (except for me and I am just resoldering the wire from the insulated drawbar up to the motor) I wanted to compliment on the work you have done and look forward to seeing more. Your comments on the epoxy in the coal area of the tender reminded me of more than a few locos I have been restoring that had been "glued" for a repair when they should have been soldered by some intermediate owner. I put a soldering iron into some of it and it smoked so badly my eyes burned. But again, nice work and thanks for keeping us posted. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Since I finished my Mogul for now (might > paint) I started again on the Brass scratch built engine I bought. I > started on the tender which had some dings on the sides and needed work > on the back top. Also the coal bin was never finished. I started to add > pieces to make it more presentable. A lot of filing and filling on > another project. Due to all the work needed it will have to be painted, > decaled and especially coal added as previous owner/builder had some > kind of clear "epoxy" in bottom of coal bin and on top of that had > Hydrocal as a load to just put coal on top but I had to take apart to > add to it. I soon will have the basic repair done and will start > details like handrails ,ladders, etc. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19641	From: Larry Smith	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: OldModelKits EBT Caboose

I have all of the EBT cars that you mention.  I do not have the early hopper in a gold box, but in the Gloor Craft tan box.  A word about Gloor Craft, when the company went out of business, the bank decided that the kits were worthless and tossed them out.  They were picked up by another kit maker and soon will be out again. I have two problems with purchasing kits or motive power on eBay or anywhere else from individuals.  First the seller thinks what he has is worth more then it is, not knowing the market, this seems to be predominate in the Fine Scale Miniature type of kits and the second when a bidding war gets going on the auction.  In the former, I had one person refuse to put an asking price on a series of structures he had.  When I offered to start at what he paid for them, he became irate and accused me of trying to steal them from him.  The later happen to a guy where EBT mikes are selling unpainted for around $500, he got into a bidding war and ended up paying over 1k for one.  Now he wants to get rid of it.  The moral of that is know the market. Just my thoughts Larry Smith On 6/17/2012 10:45 AM, cwrailman wrote:   John, When Quality Craft decided to bring out their line of EBT cars in the early 1980's, LaBelle made a decision to stop producing theirs because it was the only kit they made for that road and at that time there was little room in the hobby for competition in selling wood craftsman kits.  This is what we were told at that time by the original owners of Labelle.   You can find the EBT caboose as well as EBT 2 bay and 3 bay hoppers and a box car all sold under the Quality Craft name in a gold box.  These were all sold through hobby shops and at the EBT Fall Spectacular meets.  There was also an early hopper car sold as an EBT Coal Car available but I do not remember if the box was gold or what.  These kits may have also been available under the Gloor Craft name when the company was bought out.   While some do come up on Ebay, you can contact the Friends of the East Broad Top (FEBT) because someone always has one for sale. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19642	From: Lon	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi All, I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19643	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

Lon, I have a standard method of repairing items that are difficult to glue, but it takes finesse and couldn't recommend it unless I could see the pieces. Send a photo to luvprr@... if you can.   Art W   In a message dated 6/19/2012 12:21:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wlon17@... writes:    Hi All,   I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks.  Lon Walker ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19644	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

On 6/18/2012 11:21 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > I would NOT use super glue. While it has great tensile strength, it has no shear strength. Probably some sort of epoxy would be best, you mention JB Weld, that might work, but not the "5 minute" stuff. I've used the regular JB weld for steel as a filler, once it's cured it can even be machined. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19645	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

I might add, Lon, that simply applying glue or cement could botch the job if it doesn't hold well--especially if the surfaces/parts are fragile. If the parts separate with the residual glue still on them it could be impossible to remove it without damage in order to start over again. A photo here is essential for help from my end.   Art W   In a message dated 6/19/2012 8:15:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, luvprr@... writes: Lon, I have a standard method of repairing items that are difficult to glue, but it takes finesse and couldn't recommend it unless I could see the pieces. Send a photo to luvprr@... if you can.   Art W   In a message dated 6/19/2012 12:21:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wlon17@... writes:    Hi All,   I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks.  Lon Walker ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19646	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi Don, I do agree with you about the 5 minute epoxy as I was rarely satisfied with it.  I am thinking you or other member have a better solution.  I  would like to hear about what adhesive or epoxy and brand that folks use that works and has a shelf life longer than 6 months.   I just recently threw away some Loctite brand epoxy because the black part become solid in in the tube in less than a year.  I refuse to buy the kind that comes in a double tube, because invariably one side comes out fine and the other gets stuck and takes forever to come out.  You end up throwing that away after two uses because you used up the one side while the other is still full.  I would like other folks opinion as to what works.  This stuff is not cheap and I prefer something stronger than super glue for many applications.   A LOOOOONG time ago I had access to a product called Epoxy Patch and it was great.  It had a very long shelf life also.  Like way more than the 6 months I got from the Loctite brand. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:24:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] repairing vintage metal truck question   On 6/18/2012 11:21 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > I would NOT use super glue. While it has great tensile strength, it has no shear strength. Probably some sort of epoxy would be best, you mention JB Weld, that might work, but not the "5 minute" stuff. I've used the regular JB weld for steel as a filler, once it's cured it can even be machined. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19647	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi Lon, Like some other folks her said, I would not use super glue, unless this is a decorative part and not one that would get any stress. A picture would help a lot to determine what is needed. I am kind of confused as to what the "broken" parts would be if they are different metals? Were they pressed together or something? The only thing that I can envision is if the bolster is stamped steel and pressed into a cast sideframe like Mantua/Tyco practice. If that is the case and it simply got loose, Super Glue may work. If it is something more, then epoxy would be the way to go. One more thing, the most important question is; what will the truck be used for? If it is a shelf queen and will not be actively running on a layout, than repairs with glue should be fine. If it will be operating in regular service on a layout, then, you may wish to consider replacing the truck with something more reliable. Kadee makes some beautiful arch bar trucks and the prices are reasonable. I suppose this part will depend on whether you are a purist or if you don't mind upgrades to your vintage. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19648	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

Which is why a new set of Kadee arch bar trucks might be the best solution at $6.90 or less.  But they are not vintage, so the “it turns into metal and can be machined” would be a good choice.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:57 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] repairing vintage metal truck question     Hi Don, I do agree with you about the 5 minute epoxy as I was rarely satisfied with it.  I am thinking you or other member have a better solution.  I  would like to hear about what adhesive or epoxy and brand that folks use that works and has a shelf life longer than 6 months.   I just recently threw away some Loctite brand epoxy because the black part become solid in in the tube in less than a year.  I refuse to buy the kind that comes in a double tube, because invariably one side comes out fine and the other gets stuck and takes forever to come out.  You end up throwing that away after two uses because you used up the one side while the other is still full.  I would like other folks opinion as to what works.  This stuff is not cheap and I prefer something stronger than super glue for many applications.   A LOOOOONG time ago I had access to a product called Epoxy Patch and it was great.  It had a very long shelf life also.  Like way more than the 6 months I got from the Loctite brand. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh , NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:24:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] repairing vintage metal truck question   On 6/18/2012 11:21 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > I would NOT use super glue. While it has great tensile strength, it has no shear strength. Probably some sort of epoxy would be best, you mention JB Weld, that might work, but not the "5 minute" stuff. I've used the regular JB weld for steel as a filler, once it's cured it can even be machined. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19649	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

One thing that you need to be concerned about with zinc castings -- "zamac" -- from the late forties - early fifties are lead impurities that cause the metal to become brittle.  This actually has a name , courtesy the Germans -- Zincpest.  Here's a link to a wikipedia description:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest   If it's broken in one place, it's likely going to break in another, so no matter how many times you glue it back together odds are that it will just break somewhere else.  This condition does not exist in zamac castings made from the late fifties on.   This problem likewise does not exist for lead (e. g. prewar cast trucks) or type metal (e. g. Red Ball or Binkley trucks) castings and the break is likely the result of mechanical forces.   The best solution for zincpest is that if it is a common casting, such as a Central Valley, Cliff Line, or Silver Streak archbar truck, to find a replacement.  Of course, easier said than done, and replacements tend to be pricey. Another solution is to make a new casting from epoxy or resin, though that is way beyond my skill set.  John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:57:27 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi Don, I do agree with you about the 5 minute epoxy as I was rarely satisfied with it.  I am thinking you or other member have a better solution.  I  would like to hear about what adhesive or epoxy and brand that folks use that works and has a shelf life longer than 6 months.   I just recently threw away some Loctite brand epoxy because the black part become solid in in the tube in less than a year.  I refuse to buy the kind that comes in a double tube, because invariably one side comes out fine and the other gets stuck and takes forever to come out.  You end up throwing that away after two uses because you used up the one side while the other is still full.  I would like other folks opinion as to what works.  This stuff is not cheap and I prefer something stronger than super glue for many applications.   A LOOOOONG time ago I had access to a product called Epoxy Patch and it was great.  It had a very long shelf life also.  Like way more than the 6 months I got from the Loctite brand. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:24:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] repairing vintage metal truck question   On 6/18/2012 11:21 PM, Lon wrote: > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > I would NOT use super glue. While it has great tensile strength, it has no shear strength. Probably some sort of epoxy would be best, you mention JB Weld, that might work, but not the "5 minute" stuff. I've used the regular JB weld for steel as a filler, once it's cured it can even be machined. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19650	From: Lon Walker	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi All,  I will take a picture and try to post it tonight or as soon as I can. Maybe someone will even be able to tell me who made it.  Thanks. Lon Walker From: "bitlerisvj@..." <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:15 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi Lon, Like some other folks her said, I would not use super glue, unless this is a decorative part and not one that would get any stress. A picture would help a lot to determine what is needed. I am kind of confused as to what the "broken" parts would be if they are different metals? Were they pressed together or something? The only thing that I can envision is if the bolster is stamped steel and pressed into a cast sideframe like Mantua/Tyco practice. If that is the case and it simply got loose, Super Glue may work. If it is something more, then epoxy would be the way to go. One more thing, the most important question is; what will the truck be used for? If it is a shelf queen and will not be actively running on a layout, than repairs with glue should be fine. If it will be operating in regular service on a layout, then, you may wish to consider replacing the truck with something more reliable. Kadee makes some beautiful arch bar trucks and the prices are reasonable. I suppose this part will depend on whether you are a purist or if you don't mind upgrades to your vintage. Regards, Vic Bitleris --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19651	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits B.S.

Personally, I take exception to this comment and I think the topic itself has little to do with the hobby of Vintage HO train collecting or modeling. It is completely based on opinion and there is not one shred of fact in it.  In fact, it is the "newcomers" that result in most of the bad experiences I have had. But I am not going to go into that here because this thread / argument is baseless to begin with. To think for one second that it can in any way be a valid rebuttal to Mr. John Hagen's well stated and educated comment is just ludicrous.  I am a long time eBay user (buyer of over 2000 transactions and seller of over 8000 transactions on eBay). Although I do not like the company eBay, I support the premise of fair market value with on-line trading.  HH, I think the crap is getting too deep in here for this topic.    Sean From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits   I would never use the term "evilbay". The proper term is "evilbait", with their "enforcer" sidekick. PayUp, Pal. You read it on forums all the time.....not as advertised (you can take that "buyer beware" stuff and put it elsewhere) , photos and description do not come anywhere close to what you got....trying to get evilbait or payup, pal to enforce is impossible. You see it in auto related forums.....these morons take a photo off the algore internet, publish it, with a high dollar price tag, yet the car in the photo actually belongs to someone on the forum, and it ain't for sale. Complaint after complaint to the bait and the pal, auction stays up. When you've been around a while, you can figure it out. The newcomer has no idea. Go ahead, support your local hoodlums!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19652	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits

Thanks Don, Sorry I did not see your comment(s) earlier. Having been introduced to this group by selling to YOU on eBay that brass Erie Built C-Liner many moons ago, I can't help but take exception to how that topic went awry. I pride myself on being as fair an honest as I can be at all times.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits   On 6/17/2012 11:56 AM, raul@... wrote: > -- > The juvenile terminology gets quite tiresome very soon. Roger Aultman > > > > Thank you. The discussions of the pros and cons of eBay and the pricing philosophy of other businesses is off topic. I appreciate it if you fellows would let these threads die. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19653	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits B.S.

I agree with your comment , also I must agree with Boss Merle as I was a hapless train shop retailer like him . I'll just say the good times were fun , too bad it wasn't profitable . Henry H. --- On Tue, 6/19/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits B.S. To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 6:08 PM   Personally, I take exception to this comment and I think the topic itself has little to do with the hobby of Vintage HO train collecting or modeling. It is completely based on opinion and there is not one shred of fact in it.  In fact, it is the "newcomers" that result in most of the bad experiences I have had. But I am not going to go into that here because this thread / argument is baseless to begin with. To think for one second that it can in any way be a valid rebuttal to Mr. John Hagen's well stated and educated comment is just ludicrous.  I am a long time eBay user (buyer of over 2000 transactions and seller of over 8000 transactions on eBay). Although I do not like the company eBay, I support the premise of fair market value with on-line trading.  HH, I think the crap is getting too deep in here for this topic.    Sean From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay; addendum to OldModelKits   I would never use the term "evilbay". The proper term is "evilbait", with their "enforcer" sidekick. PayUp, Pal. You read it on forums all the time.....not as advertised (you can take that "buyer beware" stuff and put it elsewhere) , photos and description do not come anywhere close to what you got....trying to get evilbait or payup, pal to enforce is impossible. You see it in auto related forums.....these morons take a photo off the algore internet, publish it, with a high dollar price tag, yet the car in the photo actually belongs to someone on the forum, and it ain't for sale. Complaint after complaint to the bait and the pal, auction stays up. When you've been around a while, you can figure it out. The newcomer has no idea. Go ahead, support your local hoodlums!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19654	From: Richard	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed

Hi to All, I recently acquired a Mantua 8 Ball 2-6-0 but the roof is cracking. It looks to be made out of pot metal. Does anyone have an extra roof that they would sell to me? Thanks for reading this request. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19655	From: Glenn	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed

try flooding the cracks with thin super glue--gj -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:52 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed Hi to All, I recently acquired a Mantua 8 Ball 2-6-0 but the roof is cracking. It looks to be made out of pot metal. Does anyone have an extra roof that they would sell to me? Thanks for reading this request. Richard in Vermont ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19656	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed

Hi Richard, If you are going to just repaint it, filling the cracks with several applications of CA or super-glue works great. Just do a final filing/sanding to remove any evidence and prime & paint. In some cases, some filing may need to be done to reshape the base of the roof so it fits properly on the brass sides without warping them out of shape.  If it is too far gone and completely expanded out of shape, try Dan Bush at yardbirdtrains. He usually has a stock of replacement early mantua parts. I have some, but no spares.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Glenn <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed   try flooding the cracks with thin super glue--gj -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:52 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] 8 Ball Cab Roof Needed Hi to All, I recently acquired a Mantua 8 Ball 2-6-0 but the roof is cracking. It looks to be made out of pot metal. Does anyone have an extra roof that they would sell to me? Thanks for reading this request. Richard in Vermont ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19657	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: A little farther

Attachments : IMG_8078.JPG IMG_8076.JPG Got the whole coal bin rebuilt on the scratch built Pacific I'm trying to renovate. Added a floor so I won't have to add a lot of coal. I have about a 1/2 hour sanding to do and I can start adding detail. Doesn't look to good like this . All the seams showing are sealed and the epoxy is sanded down. You can see how much needed work to try to even and square it up. Can't let it like this but it will look much better painted. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19658	From: Lon	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19659	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Oh, from the photo, it looks like brass.  You can try soldering, but not sure how well it will hold.  I would not consider using any kind of glue, unless it will become a shelf queen, in which case Super Glue may work.  PSC makes a set that look almost identical, except the bolster screws to the side frame.  Check out the link below. http://www.precisionscaleco.com/  Go to Trucks->Passenger/Freight and the very first 2 are what I suggest.  The more expensive one is already put together.  It is really easy to put the kit together, I personally wouldn't spend the extra 6 bucks. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:21:09 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19660	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi Lon. That repair looks like a perfect candidate for the drilling out of a small hole into each piece and the insertion of a brass rod to use as a support pin for the joint. If you use this in conjunction of your epoxy application, you would be golden. Make the hole slightly over-sized to allow for some flexibility in the location of the pin (not too much though. I would try to get it as close as possible and only widen one hole at a time if needed. Since it is not a surface that you can easily or likely properly center the holes over each other, a slightly larger hole, than the diameter of the pin will ensure both holes are penetrated. The use of an epoxy will allow the remaining portions of the holes to be filled. The pin will prevent shear at this location. In addition, the application of the hoes and pin provide additional surface area for the glue to contact, which also should increase the joint tensile strength.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Lon <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19661	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Bitter Creek Models has a similar truck from the old Red Ball line -- look at # T-9:   http://bittercreekmodels.com/page4.html   $7.95 per pair + $6.00 shipping.  These are described as lead-based castings, probably type metal as that was what Red Ball used.    John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@hotmail.com> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:08:07 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Oh, from the photo, it looks like brass.  You can try soldering, but not sure how well it will hold.  I would not consider using any kind of glue, unless it will become a shelf queen, in which case Super Glue may work.  PSC makes a set that look almost identical, except the bolster screws to the side frame.  Check out the link below. http://www.precisionscaleco.com/  Go to Trucks->Passenger/Freight and the very first 2 are what I suggest.  The more expensive one is already put together.  It is really easy to put the kit together, I personally wouldn't spend the extra 6 bucks. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:21:09 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19662	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: A little farther

Hard to believe it is the same tender shell that was in the previous photo. Nice work! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Got the whole coal bin rebuilt on the scratch built Pacific > I'm trying to renovate. Added a floor so I won't have to add a lot of > coal. I have about a 1/2 hour sanding to do and I can start adding > detail. Doesn't look to good like this . All the seams showing are > sealed and the epoxy is sanded down. You can see how much needed work to > try to even and square it up. Can't let it like this but it will look > much better painted. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19663	From: wdavis5069	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

I second that suggestion. If if doesn't work then look at replacement trucks. I have successfully repaired a number of things using that technique. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Lon. > > That repair looks like a perfect candidate for the drilling out of a small hole into each piece and the insertion of a brass rod to use as a support pin for the joint. If you use this in conjunction of your epoxy application, you would be golden. Make the hole slightly over-sized to allow for some flexibility in the location of the pin (not too much though. I would try to get it as close as possible and only widen one hole at a time if needed. Since it is not a surface that you can easily or likely properly center the holes over each other, a slightly larger hole, than the diameter of the pin will ensure both holes are penetrated. The use of an epoxy will allow the remaining portions of the holes to be filled. The pin will prevent shear at this location. In addition, the application of the hoes and pin provide additional surface area for the glue to contact, which also should increase the joint tensile strength. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Lon <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:21 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question > > >   > > > Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19664	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Lon, In addition, make sure before you put the wheel sets back together. Make sure the insulated side is is on the same side as the repair. Meaning - make sure the power-pick-up side is on the same side that still has the truck/frame screw mount portion of the bolster. This will ensure you will continue to make contact with the rails using the repaired truck.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi Lon. That repair looks like a perfect candidate for the drilling out of a small hole into each piece and the insertion of a brass rod to use as a support pin for the joint. If you use this in conjunction of your epoxy application, you would be golden. Make the hole slightly over-sized to allow for some flexibility in the location of the pin (not too much though. I would try to get it as close as possible and only widen one hole at a time if needed. Since it is not a surface that you can easily or likely properly center the holes over each other, a slightly larger hole, than the diameter of the pin will ensure both holes are penetrated. The use of an epoxy will allow the remaining portions of the holes to be filled. The pin will prevent shear at this location. In addition, the application of the hoes and pin provide additional surface area for the glue to contact, which also should increase the joint tensile strength.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Lon <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19665	From: Lon Walker	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi,  I had no idea there were that many types of Arch Bar trucks.  Thanks John.    Lon From: "john.allyn@..." <john.allyn@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Bitter Creek Models has a similar truck from the old Red Ball line -- look at # T-9:   http://bittercreekmodels.com/page4.html   $7.95 per pair + $6.00 shipping.  These are described as lead-based castings, probably type metal as that was what Red Ball used.    John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@hotmail.com> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:08:07 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Oh, from the photo, it looks like brass.  You can try soldering, but not sure how well it will hold.  I would not consider using any kind of glue, unless it will become a shelf queen, in which case Super Glue may work.  PSC makes a set that look almost identical, except the bolster screws to the side frame.  Check out the link below. http://www.precisionscaleco.com/  Go to Trucks->Passenger/Freight and the very first 2 are what I suggest.  The more expensive one is already put together.  It is really easy to put the kit together, I personally wouldn't spend the extra 6 bucks. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wlon17@... Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:21:09 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19666	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

On 6/19/2012 11:21 PM, Lon wrote: > > > > > Hi, I have added 4 photos of the trucks to the album titled Walker, Lon's trains. These should show the area to be repaired and someone can probably identify the company that made them. Thanks. Lon Walker > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1199558077/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lon"<wlon17@...> wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I have a pair of metal arch bar trucks. One is fine and the other is in two pieces. I would like to repair the broken one but don't know what would be best to use. Should I use super glue, J B weld or something else? The place where the adhesive would go is straight but it looks as if the two pieces are different metals. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon Walker >> > There's no way in you know where that super glue would hold in that application. I think your original idea of JB Weld would be the only thing that would work if anything. I'll be honest, I've had a number of pair of white metal trucks, old Redball, CapeLine etc, that failed in exacty the same place and I haven't found anything that works. Otherwise, archbar trucks are common, I'd just replace them a new pair from PSC or Kadee. You could even find cheap plastic trucks like the old Train Miniature or Walthers and put your existing good wheelsets in them and they'd look as good and probably roll better than the originals. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19667	From: nvrr49	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

I would use solder instead of epoxy, but otherwise, do just like Sean says, drill it and pin it. Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Lon. > > That repair looks like a perfect candidate for the drilling out of a small hole into each piece and the insertion of a brass rod to use as a support pin for the joint. If you use this in conjunction of your epoxy application, you would be golden. Make the hole slightly over-sized to allow for some flexibility in the location of the pin (not too much though. I would try to get it as close as possible and only widen one hole at a time if needed. Since it is not a surface that you can easily or likely properly center the holes over each other, a slightly larger hole, than the diameter of the pin will ensure both holes are penetrated. The use of an epoxy will allow the remaining portions of the holes to be filled. The pin will prevent shear at this location. In addition, the application of the hoes and pin provide additional surface area for the glue to contact, which also should increase the joint tensile strength. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19668	From: Nelson	Date: 6/20/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

I'll third it. Drilling and pinning is a very good repair method for pinpoint breaks with very little surface area to grab. It works well on broken detail parts like steps and so forth. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wdavis5069" <wdavis5069@...> wrote: > > I second that suggestion. If if doesn't work then look at replacement trucks. I have successfully repaired a number of things using that technique. > > Wil > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Lon. > > > > That repair looks like a perfect candidate for the drilling out of a small hole into each piece and the insertion of a brass rod to use as a support pin for the joint. If you use this in conjunction of your epoxy application, you would be golden. Make the hole slightly over-sized to allow for some flexibility in the location of the pin (not too much though. I would try to get it as close as possible and only widen one hole at a time if needed. Since it is not a surface that you can easily or likely properly center the holes over each other, a slightly larger hole, than the diameter of the pin will ensure both holes are penetrated. The use of an epoxy will allow the remaining portions of the holes to be filled. The pin will prevent shear at this location. In addition, the application of the hoes and pin provide additional surface area for the glue to contact, which also should increase the joint tensile strength. > > > >   > > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19669	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question

Hi Don,  I agree with you.  I have personally used the pinning procedure for gluing very small pieces where there is very little surface area with a lot of success.  But, these were not parts that would receive stress like trucks.  Additionally trucks have a fairly precise geometry that needs to be kept.  I think JB Weld, which is really good stuff, would add too much to the thickness and make the spread between truck frames too much.  If these pieces are brass, as they appear in the photos, I would try the pinning trick with .020 or .032 brass rod and solder them.  If you get just the right amount of solder on the pin to get a slightly loose fit and flux the ends, clamp the truck (loosely at first) and hit it with a torch or decent soldering iron, with a tiny bit of solder at the joint, you might get a decent flow into the joint and possibly a solid fix.  As the solder is hot and flowing, I would tighten the clamp or vice to allow excess solder to squeeze out.  You could get very close to the original side frame spread this way.  I would do this only for very special trucks that cannot easily be replaced that have special features. But, honestly, for the peace of mind and to ensure good performance on the rails, I would just get a replacement.  The cost of a set of rucks is really not that bad Just my 2 cents. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:01:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos added, repairing vintage metal truck question   Don said: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------  There's no way in you know where that super glue would hold in that application. I think your original idea of JB Weld would be the only thing that would work if anything. I'll be honest, I've had a number of pair of white metal trucks, old Redball, CapeLine etc, that failed in exacty the same place and I haven't found anything that works. Otherwise, archbar trucks are common, I'd just replace them a new pair from PSC or Kadee. You could even find cheap plastic trucks like the old Train Miniature or Walthers and put your existing good wheelsets in them and they'd look as good and probably roll better than the originals. Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19670	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Some Tender Detail

Attachments : IMG_8081.JPG IMG_8080.JPG Hi Matt, Talk about free lance. This is it. Just using parts laying around. I like the Macro pictures for seeing mistakes. Have to file edges better on the rungs I took off the ladder material. Started on the water hatch. Will add hinges and a small handle. Hopefully I can get the coupler / couple pocket on, add a handrail on the back tender floor and ladder steps. Then I'll move up to the front. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19671	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Some Tender Detail

Jim, Will you be putting rivet detail on the tender or leave it smooth?   May I suggest that if you really want to capture the details of your work with your Canon Powershot A520, set it into the aperture priority mode and set the f stop to f8. Put it on a solid surface aim it at the model and trip the self timer and take your hands off the camera.  That will increase your depth of field and make the image much sharper.  You can also go with the manual mode and again set it to f8 but then you would have to adjust the shutter speed.  For additional info on this process you can check out the Photography page on my WEB site which demonstrates this process using a camera with similar features. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Matt, > > Talk about free lance. This is it. Just using parts > laying around. I like the Macro pictures for seeing mistakes. Have to > file edges better on the rungs I took off the ladder material. Started > on the water hatch. Will add hinges and a small handle. Hopefully I can > get the coupler / couple pocket on, add a handrail on the back tender > floor and ladder steps. Then I'll move up to the front. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19672	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Some Tender Detail

Denny,       After all the discussion about the merits of the rivet details I'm not sure what I will do. The project just for the tender is taking a lot of time. I'll look into your suggestions about the camera. As I mentioned I like using the Macro setting for close ups as it shows things that might not be quit right. I admit I'm not to up on the options of my camera.                                                                   Jim H On 6/21/2012 4:10 PM, cwrailman wrote:   Jim, Will you be putting rivet detail on the tender or leave it smooth?   May I suggest that if you really want to capture the details of your work with your Canon Powershot A520, set it into the aperture priority mode and set the f stop to f8. Put it on a solid surface aim it at the model and trip the self timer and take your hands off the camera.  That will increase your depth of field and make the image much sharper.  You can also go with the manual mode and again set it to f8 but then you would have to adjust the shutter speed.  For additional info on this process you can check out the Photography page on my WEB site which demonstrates this process using a camera with similar features. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Matt, > > Talk about free lance. This is it. Just using parts > laying around. I like the Macro pictures for seeing mistakes. Have to > file edges better on the rungs I took off the ladder material. Started > on the water hatch. Will add hinges and a small handle. Hopefully I can > get the coupler / couple pocket on, add a handrail on the back tender > floor and ladder steps. Then I'll move up to the front. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19673	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 6/21/2012
Subject: Re: Some Tender Detail

Jim, You may know this already but MicroMark sells rivet strips that apply like decals. I haven't tried them but I saw a tender that another modeler had made out of styrene sheet with these rivets and they looked pretty good. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Denny, > > After all the discussion about the merits of the rivet details > I'm not sure what I will do.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19674	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/22/2012
Subject: additional picture

Attachments : IMG_8091.JPG Had to add a picture I missed when I sent the others as I finished the water hatch with handle and hinges. I think it looks pretty neat. Taking a break for the week end as need to get drill bits and family visiting. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19675	From: pjungkjung	Date: 6/23/2012
Subject: Walthers Miniature Cabinet Maker's Manual

Hi all- I have a request from a customer of mine who is looking for the Walthers Miniature Cabinet Maker's Manual put out back when Walthers owned SS LTD (Scale Structures LTD) in the 1980's and early '90's (before JAKS purchased SS LTD). It was mentioned in the instructions of some of the Fezziwig's Furniture kits. We do not have any copies here and Walthers has no idea of what it is according to the customer who has checked with them Does anyone have a copy to "copy" or sell? Please contact us off list - Thanks! Forgive the multiple posts potentially on Yahoo! Peter Jung SS LTD 800-352-1554

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19676	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/24/2012
Subject: Scratch Pacific Rebuild

Attachments : IMG_8096.JPG IMG_8095.JPG Since the family is leaving I did a little more work on the tender. First I have added a coupler / coupler pocket (yes I know a NMRA horn hook but if this whole project works out I will use this engine on my layout). I have also taken spacers out of the tender trucks to get the right coupler height. I added the 4 corner vertical hand rails. I got some drill bits at Harbor Freight so I can add some more detail. Tender is taking a while but why rush it now. I'm itching to start on the frame and boiler/cab. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19677	From: Mike	Date: 6/24/2012
Subject: Mantua Mogul

In Slim's collection there is a Mantua die cast and brass Mogul. Looking for a real version of this to paint it after. Was there ever one on the V&T or Rio Grande? Any ideas from anyone? Thanks, Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19678	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Attachments : 7433637662_4a0c7bf54d_o.jpg 7429392100_d3226acc7c_o.jpg 7426616072_1d74032338_o.jpg 7426615712_f27286c962_o.jpg Hey Guys, I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my ownership, made into a Mikado).  I tried sell it on eBay, but could not get an offer I could accept, so I decided this past Friday night to begin to restore it myself. The locomotive itself was in excellent condition, needing only a single rivet replacement (I found out after tearing it apart), and the paint was in bad shape.  I have a little more in-depth flickr photo set dedicated to the restoration series here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630252153518/with/7426756370/ This is how it looked before I started:   Well, as of about ~11:00 am Saturday morning before going upstairs to work on our addition, it was rid of what remained of the paint. (tender has not yet been stripped) I have started to re-assemble it. All I have left to clean are the tender (whole thing) and the motor. I decided to convert it back to a 2-8-4 Berkshire by simply replacing the single axle rear truck assembly with a dual axle assembly. After striping the paint off of the frame, I soaked it in TARNEX for about 10+ minutes. It came out awesome! It was originally terribly discolored. I am not sure why but it looked like it was due to excessive heat. Saturday night I finished cleaning the valve gear using a brief ~1 minute dip in TARNEX and then a wash and gentile clean using a stainless steel wire wheel on my Dremel. I then lightly sprayed them with a clear coat to keep and preserve the clean look for a very long time. Early Sunday morning, before going upstairs to work on our addition some more,  I re-assembled the chassis. Dumb-arss me, I initially assembled it with the valve gear, pilot and steam chest upside down! I had to take the valve gear off and flip it over and re-assemble it. What fooled me is the Economy Pacifics (which I had one sitting beside me at the time) are assembled with the brass C-channel frame open side facing downward. I forgot that this one was different in that it faced upward. I realized my problem when I tried to replace the pilot truck. I had no where to mount it. Then it dawned on me.. DUH! As an improvement, the old valve gear hanger rested only on the flange edges and it had a central screw which tightened it to the frame. There was no central support here, so as you tightened down on the nut, it would bend the central plate on the hanger. I then dug through my scrap brass tubing and found one that was a perfect fit. While standing on end, it sat just below the flange sidewall height. I added a washer to improve / increase the bearing plate surface area and the two combined were exactly flush with the flanges. I then replaced the hanger and tightened down on the nut until it was all snug. Perfect fit without bending the hanger base plate! Took about 2 hours total, botched assembly and all!. After final adjustments and tightening everything down, I put a drop of CA / Super-Glue on the backs of the crank-pin set screws. I did not want them to work their way lose sometime in the future. Before oiling the chassis, I ran it back and forth on the desk to make sure it did not jam or get hung up anywhere. After a little tweeking (mostly to the cross head guides and crank angle), it rolled back and forth (dry) without too much problem. Once oiled, it rolled very well. I did it dry first because any problem areas are much more pronounced and easy to spot. The rest of the assembly will be straight forward and easy. Had to get the toughest part done first! Any comments welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19679	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]

Sean-   Varney offered this as a Mikado as well as a Berkshire, so it may be all original.  The formed brass frame and open frame motor indicate it is a Varney Economy Mikado which was available circa 1951.   Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 8:31 am Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey Guys, I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my ownership, made into a Mikado).  I tried sell it on eBay, but could not get an offer I could accept, so I decided this past Friday night to begin to restore it myself. The locomotive itself was in excellent condition, needing only a single rivet replacement (I found out after tearing it apart), and the paint was in bad shape.  I have a little more in-depth flickr photo set dedicated to the restoration series here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630252153518/with/7426756370/ This is how it looked before I started:   Well, as of about ~11:00 am Saturday morning before going upstairs to work on our addition, it was rid of what remained of the paint. (tender has not yet been stripped) I have started to re-assemble it. All I have left to clean are the tender (whole thing) and the motor. I decided to convert it back to a 2-8-4 Berkshire by simply replacing the single axle rear truck assembly with a dual axle assembly. After striping the paint off of the frame, I soaked it in TARNEX for about 10+ minutes. It came out awesome! It was originally terribly discolored. I am not sure why but it looked like it was due to excessive heat. Saturday night I finished cleaning the valve gear using a brief ~1 minute dip in TARNEX and then a wash and gentile clean using a stainless steel wire wheel on my Dremel. I then lightly sprayed them with a clear coat to keep and preserve the clean look for a very long time. Early Sunday morning, before going upstairs to work on our addition some more,  I re-assembled the chassis. Dumb-arss me, I initially assembled it with the valve gear, pilot and steam chest upside down! I had to take the valve gear off and flip it over and re-assemble it. What fooled me is the Economy Pacifics (which I had one sitting beside me at the time) are assembled with the brass C-channel frame open side facing downward. I forgot that this one was different in that it faced upward. I realized my problem when I tried to replace the pilot truck. I had no where to mount it. Then it dawned on me.. DUH! As an improvement, the old valve gear hanger rested only on the flange edges and it had a central screw which tightened it to the frame. There was no central support here, so as you tightened down on the nut, it would bend the central plate on the hanger. I then dug through my scrap brass tubing and found one that was a perfect fit. While standing on end, it sat just below the flange sidewall height. I added a washer to improve / increase the bearing plate surface area and the two combined were exactly flush with the flanges. I then replaced the hanger and tightened down on the nut until it was all snug. Perfect fit without bending the hanger base plate! Took about 2 hours total, botched assembly and all!. After final adjustments and tightening everything down, I put a drop of CA / Super-Glue on the backs of the crank-pin set screws. I did not want them to work their way lose sometime in the future. Before oiling the chassis, I ran it back and forth on the desk to make sure it did not jam or get hung up anywhere. After a little tweeking (mostly to the cross head guides and crank angle), it rolled back and forth (dry) without too much problem. Once oiled, it rolled very well. I did it dry first because any problem areas are much more pronounced and easy to spot. The rest of the assembly will be straight forward and easy. Had to get the toughest part done first! Any comments welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 4 of 4 Photo(s) 7426615712_f27286c962_o.jpg 7426616072_1d74032338_o.jpg 7429392100_d3226acc7c_o.jpg 7433637662_4a0c7bf54d_o.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19680	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Hi Richard, Thanks for the info.. but I have never seen the Mikado with anything but the standard lead-alloy die cast shell. Are you saying they produced a Economy Pacific with the brass boiler like this one? Not arguing, just confused now..   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Sean-   Varney offered this as a Mikado as well as a Berkshire, so it may be all original.  The formed brass frame and open frame motor indicate it is a Varney Economy Mikado which was available circa 1951.   Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 8:31 am Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey Guys, I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my ownership, made into a Mikado).  I tried sell it on eBay, but could not get an offer I could accept, so I decided this past Friday night to begin to restore it myself. The locomotive itself was in excellent condition, needing only a single rivet replacement (I found out after tearing it apart), and the paint was in bad shape.  I have a little more in-depth flickr photo set dedicated to the restoration series here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630252153518/with/7426756370/ This is how it looked before I started:   Well, as of about ~11:00 am Saturday morning before going upstairs to work on our addition, it was rid of what remained of the paint. (tender has not yet been stripped) I have started to re-assemble it. All I have left to clean are the tender (whole thing) and the motor. I decided to convert it back to a 2-8-4 Berkshire by simply replacing the single axle rear truck assembly with a dual axle assembly. After striping the paint off of the frame, I soaked it in TARNEX for about 10+ minutes. It came out awesome! It was originally terribly discolored. I am not sure why but it looked like it was due to excessive heat. Saturday night I finished cleaning the valve gear using a brief ~1 minute dip in TARNEX and then a wash and gentile clean using a stainless steel wire wheel on my Dremel. I then lightly sprayed them with a clear coat to keep and preserve the clean look for a very long time. Early Sunday morning, before going upstairs to work on our addition some more,  I re-assembled the chassis. Dumb-arss me, I initially assembled it with the valve gear, pilot and steam chest upside down! I had to take the valve gear off and flip it over and re-assemble it. What fooled me is the Economy Pacifics (which I had one sitting beside me at the time) are assembled with the brass C-channel frame open side facing downward. I forgot that this one was different in that it faced upward. I realized my problem when I tried to replace the pilot truck. I had no where to mount it. Then it dawned on me.. DUH! As an improvement, the old valve gear hanger rested only on the flange edges and it had a central screw which tightened it to the frame. There was no central support here, so as you tightened down on the nut, it would bend the central plate on the hanger. I then dug through my scrap brass tubing and found one that was a perfect fit. While standing on end, it sat just below the flange sidewall height. I added a washer to improve / increase the bearing plate surface area and the two combined were exactly flush with the flanges. I then replaced the hanger and tightened down on the nut until it was all snug. Perfect fit without bending the hanger base plate! Took about 2 hours total, botched assembly and all!. After final adjustments and tightening everything down, I put a drop of CA / Super-Glue on the backs of the crank-pin set screws. I did not want them to work their way lose sometime in the future. Before oiling the chassis, I ran it back and forth on the desk to make sure it did not jam or get hung up anywhere. After a little tweeking (mostly to the cross head guides and crank angle), it rolled back and forth (dry) without too much problem. Once oiled, it rolled very well. I did it dry first because any problem areas are much more pronounced and easy to spot. The rest of the assembly will be straight forward and easy. Had to get the toughest part done first! Any comments welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 4 of 4 Photo(s) 7426615712_f27286c962_o.jpg 7426616072_1d74032338_o.jpg 7429392100_d3226acc7c_o.jpg 7433637662_4a0c7bf54d_o.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19681	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Sean-   I'm going from memory here, but I can check my old catalog later.  The Economy Pacific used the old lead S.P. prototype boiler casting.  The Super Pacific had a brass frame with springing and a V-2 enclosed motor.  Same S.P. boiler. They had an Economy Hudson that used the larger brass boiler.  But the kit design was so vesatile, you could build cross kits pretty easily. Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 9:12 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project Hi Richard, Thanks for the info.. but I have never seen the Mikado with anything but the standard lead-alloy die cast shell. Are you saying they produced a Economy Pacific with the brass boiler like this one? Not arguing, just confused now..   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Sean-   Varney offered this as a Mikado as well as a Berkshire, so it may be all original.  The formed brass frame and open frame motor indicate it is a Varney Economy Mikado which was available circa 1951.   Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 8:31 am Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey Guys, I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my ownership, made into a Mikado).  I tried sell it on eBay, but could not get an offer I could accept, so I decided this past Friday night to begin to restore it myself. The locomotive itself was in excellent condition, needing only a single rivet replacement (I found out after tearing it apart), and the paint was in bad shape.  I have a little more in-depth flickr photo set dedicated to the restoration series here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630252153518/with/7426756370/ This is how it looked before I started:   Well, as of about ~11:00 am Saturday morning before going upstairs to work on our addition, it was rid of what remained of the paint. (tender has not yet been stripped) I have started to re-assemble it. All I have left to clean are the tender (whole thing) and the motor. I decided to convert it back to a 2-8-4 Berkshire by simply replacing the single axle rear truck assembly with a dual axle assembly. After striping the paint off of the frame, I soaked it in TARNEX for about 10+ minutes. It came out awesome! It was originally terribly discolored. I am not sure why but it looked like it was due to excessive heat. Saturday night I finished cleaning the valve gear using a brief ~1 minute dip in TARNEX and then a wash and gentile clean using a stainless steel wire wheel on my Dremel. I then lightly sprayed them with a clear coat to keep and preserve the clean look for a very long time. Early Sunday morning, before going upstairs to work on our addition some more,  I re-assembled the chassis. Dumb-arss me, I initially assembled it with the valve gear, pilot and steam chest upside down! I had to take the valve gear off and flip it over and re-assemble it. What fooled me is the Economy Pacifics (which I had one sitting beside me at the time) are assembled with the brass C-channel frame open side facing downward. I forgot that this one was different in that it faced upward. I realized my problem when I tried to replace the pilot truck. I had no where to mount it. Then it dawned on me.. DUH! As an improvement, the old valve gear hanger rested only on the flange edges and it had a central screw which tightened it to the frame. There was no central support here, so as you tightened down on the nut, it would bend the central plate on the hanger. I then dug through my scrap brass tubing and found one that was a perfect fit. While standing on end, it sat just below the flange sidewall height. I added a washer to improve / increase the bearing plate surface area and the two combined were exactly flush with the flanges. I then replaced the hanger and tightened down on the nut until it was all snug. Perfect fit without bending the hanger base plate! Took about 2 hours total, botched assembly and all!. After final adjustments and tightening everything down, I put a drop of CA / Super-Glue on the backs of the crank-pin set screws. I did not want them to work their way lose sometime in the future. Before oiling the chassis, I ran it back and forth on the desk to make sure it did not jam or get hung up anywhere. After a little tweeking (mostly to the cross head guides and crank angle), it rolled back and forth (dry) without too much problem. Once oiled, it rolled very well. I did it dry first because any problem areas are much more pronounced and easy to spot. The rest of the assembly will be straight forward and easy. Had to get the toughest part done first! Any comments welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 4 of 4 Photo(s) 7426615712_f27286c962_o.jpg 7426616072_1d74032338_o.jpg 7429392100_d3226acc7c_o.jpg 7433637662_4a0c7bf54d_o.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19682	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Richard, Yes I agree, I have all of those you mentioned and they are as you state, but I though there was no real prototype for the Varney standard diecast boiler. You mentioned it as the SP prototype. Funny thing is I think they look strikingly similar to the New Haven Pacifics: Both my Economy and Super Pacifics share the same boilers. I think eventually, I would like to convert most of my boilers of this style into New Haven locomotives.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Sean-   I'm going from memory here, but I can check my old catalog later.  The Economy Pacific used the old lead S.P. prototype boiler casting.  The Super Pacific had a brass frame with springing and a V-2 enclosed motor.  Same S.P. boiler. They had an Economy Hudson that used the larger brass boiler.  But the kit design was so vesatile, you could build cross kits pretty easily. Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 9:12 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project Hi Richard, Thanks for the info.. but I have never seen the Mikado with anything but the standard lead-alloy die cast shell. Are you saying they produced a Economy Pacific with the brass boiler like this one? Not arguing, just confused now..   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Sean-   Varney offered this as a Mikado as well as a Berkshire, so it may be all original.  The formed brass frame and open frame motor indicate it is a Varney Economy Mikado which was available circa 1951.   Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 8:31 am Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey Guys, I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my ownership, made into a Mikado).  I tried sell it on eBay, but could not get an offer I could accept, so I decided this past Friday night to begin to restore it myself. The locomotive itself was in excellent condition, needing only a single rivet replacement (I found out after tearing it apart), and the paint was in bad shape.  I have a little more in-depth flickr photo set dedicated to the restoration series here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630252153518/with/7426756370/ This is how it looked before I started:   Well, as of about ~11:00 am Saturday morning before going upstairs to work on our addition, it was rid of what remained of the paint. (tender has not yet been stripped) I have started to re-assemble it. All I have left to clean are the tender (whole thing) and the motor. I decided to convert it back to a 2-8-4 Berkshire by simply replacing the single axle rear truck assembly with a dual axle assembly. After striping the paint off of the frame, I soaked it in TARNEX for about 10+ minutes. It came out awesome! It was originally terribly discolored. I am not sure why but it looked like it was due to excessive heat. Saturday night I finished cleaning the valve gear using a brief ~1 minute dip in TARNEX and then a wash and gentile clean using a stainless steel wire wheel on my Dremel. I then lightly sprayed them with a clear coat to keep and preserve the clean look for a very long time. Early Sunday morning, before going upstairs to work on our addition some more,  I re-assembled the chassis. Dumb-arss me, I initially assembled it with the valve gear, pilot and steam chest upside down! I had to take the valve gear off and flip it over and re-assemble it. What fooled me is the Economy Pacifics (which I had one sitting beside me at the time) are assembled with the brass C-channel frame open side facing downward. I forgot that this one was different in that it faced upward. I realized my problem when I tried to replace the pilot truck. I had no where to mount it. Then it dawned on me.. DUH! As an improvement, the old valve gear hanger rested only on the flange edges and it had a central screw which tightened it to the frame. There was no central support here, so as you tightened down on the nut, it would bend the central plate on the hanger. I then dug through my scrap brass tubing and found one that was a perfect fit. While standing on end, it sat just below the flange sidewall height. I added a washer to improve / increase the bearing plate surface area and the two combined were exactly flush with the flanges. I then replaced the hanger and tightened down on the nut until it was all snug. Perfect fit without bending the hanger base plate! Took about 2 hours total, botched assembly and all!. After final adjustments and tightening everything down, I put a drop of CA / Super-Glue on the backs of the crank-pin set screws. I did not want them to work their way lose sometime in the future. Before oiling the chassis, I ran it back and forth on the desk to make sure it did not jam or get hung up anywhere. After a little tweeking (mostly to the cross head guides and crank angle), it rolled back and forth (dry) without too much problem. Once oiled, it rolled very well. I did it dry first because any problem areas are much more pronounced and easy to spot. The rest of the assembly will be straight forward and easy. Had to get the toughest part done first! Any comments welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 4 of 4 Photo(s) 7426615712_f27286c962_o.jpg 7426616072_1d74032338_o.jpg 7429392100_d3226acc7c_o.jpg 7433637662_4a0c7bf54d_o.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19683	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Attachments : 7366818738_392811b492_c.jpg Richard, Attached is the New haven I-4 Pacific:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19684	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]

Sean,         Good luck with your project. I don't know where you find the time with your plate as full as I know it is. Looks like you'll have a beautiful vintage engine.                                                                                     Jim H On 6/25/2012 9:30 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hey Guys, I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my ownership, made into a Mikado).  I tried sell it on eBay, but could not get an offer I could accept, so I decided this past Friday night to begin to restore it myself. The locomotive itself was in excellent condition, needing only a single rivet replacement (I found out after tearing it apart), and the paint was in bad shape.  I have a little more in-depth flickr photo set dedicated to the restoration series here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630252153518/with/7426756370/ This is how it looked before I started:   Well, as of about ~11:00 am Saturday morning before going upstairs to work on our addition, it was rid of what remained of the paint. (tender has not yet been stripped) I have started to re-assemble it. All I have left to clean are the tender (whole thing) and the motor. I decided to convert it back to a 2-8-4 Berkshire by simply replacing the single axle rear truck assembly with a dual axle assembly. After striping the paint off of the frame, I soaked it in TARNEX for about 10+ minutes. It came out awesome! It was originally terribly discolored. I am not sure why but it looked like it was due to excessive heat. Saturday night I finished cleaning the valve gear using a brief ~1 minute dip in TARNEX and then a wash and gentile clean using a stainless steel wire wheel on my Dremel. I then lightly sprayed them with a clear coat to keep and preserve the clean look for a very long time. Early Sunday morning, before going upstairs to work on our addition some more,  I re-assembled the chassis. Dumb-arss me, I initially assembled it with the valve gear, pilot and steam chest upside down! I had to take the valve gear off and flip it over and re-assemble it. What fooled me is the Economy Pacifics (which I had one sitting beside me at the time) are assembled with the brass C-channel frame open side facing downward. I forgot that this one was different in that it faced upward. I realized my problem when I tried to replace the pilot truck. I had no where to mount it. Then it dawned on me.. DUH! As an improvement, the old valve gear hanger rested only on the flange edges and it had a central screw which tightened it to the frame. There was no central support here, so as you tightened down on the nut, it would bend the central plate on the hanger. I then dug through my scrap brass tubing and found one that was a perfect fit. While standing on end, it sat just below the flange sidewall height. I added a washer to improve / increase the bearing plate surface area and the two combined were exactly flush with the flanges. I then replaced the hanger and tightened down on the nut until it was all snug. Perfect fit without bending the hanger base plate! Took about 2 hours total, botched assembly and all!. After final adjustments and tightening everything down, I put a drop of CA / Super-Glue on the backs of the crank-pin set screws. I did not want them to work their way lose sometime in the future. Before oiling the chassis, I ran it back and forth on the desk to make sure it did not jam or get hung up anywhere. After a little tweeking (mostly to the cross head guides and crank angle), it rolled back and forth (dry) without too much problem. Once oiled, it rolled very well. I did it dry first because any problem areas are much more pronounced and easy to spot. The rest of the assembly will be straight forward and easy. Had to get the toughest part done first! Any comments welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19685	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]

Sean, The 1951 Varney catalog I have shows both the Economy Mikado and the Super Mikado both with the heavier Berkshire boiler. I have never seen a Super Mikado with this boiler as like you said they all seem to have the SP/New Haven style boiler. Just goes to show that the boilers were pretty much interchangeable. Good luck on your project. I have one of those Berkshires also but have never started to restore it. Bill DeFoe > > On 6/25/2012 9:30 AM, Sean Naylor wrote: > > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Sean Naylor included below] > > Hey Guys, > > > > I have this Varney brass Berkshire (that someone previous to my > > ownership, made into a Mikado).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19687	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Vintage kits for sale on my WEB site

I have added some vintage kits to the items for sale in the consignment area of my CWRailman  Hobby Shop page.  My shipping charges are quite reasonable. Except for one kit that has the floor, ends and roof assembled and the roof is sealed and another kit that is nearly complete (not by me) all the other kits are in near mint condition.  In most, the individual parts packaging has not been opened  There will be additional kits listed in the next few days. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19688	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/25/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage kits listed for sale on my WEB site

Denny, FYI, fix your tables on the list of items for sale. After a few rows nothing lines up correctly. Outside of that, I really like your site's look and feel. This ought'a be worth something as a compliment; One of the things I do in business (Owner of a small computer shop), is small business web development. Self-taught in HTML and hand type my code in Windows Notepad usually. -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 6/25/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage kits listed for sale on my WEB site To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 25, 2012, 9:01 PM   I have added some vintage kits to the items for sale in the consignment area of my CWRailman Hobby Shop page.  My shipping charges are quite reasonable. Except for one kit that has the floor, ends and roof assembled and the roof is sealed and another kit that is nearly complete (not by me) all the other kits are in near mint condition.  In most, the individual parts packaging has not been opened  There will be additional kits listed in the next few days. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19689	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]

Hi Sean, I'll try to clear up your confusion. Yes, the post-War Economy Mikado did use the same lead boiler, as the Pacific used -- as you have seen -- BUT, not as normal practice for the longer period of its production. This lead boiler (which BTW, Varney stated to be designed after the SP prototype, although he never advertised it as such) was used on any immediately post-War Mikado up until the cast brass boiler was developed in 1949. However, these would include only the Super Mikado, as the Economy Mikado was not offered until 1949. In 1949, this new cast brass boiler was used on the both (Super and Economy) Mikado's, Berkshire's and the Economy "Standard" (not Streamlined) Hudson. Starting in 1951, the Economy Mikado went to using the lead boiler because of the Korean War. It was produced this way until 1953 when it resumed production using the cast brass boiler. Most Economy Mikado's were sold with the cast brass boiler (from 1949 up until 1951, and then again from 1953, on), perhaps in part as the modeler of that time preferred to wait until the Korean War was over rather than to buy it with the lead boiler -- and, because the Economy Mikado was offered with the lead boiler only from 1951 until 1953. Looks like all the ones you've seen (with the lead boiler) were produced only between those couple of years during the Korean War -- which would not be representative of its more lengthy production duration. As for the Economy U-channel frames, while all of the Economy 6-coupled driver engines (Pacific, Standard Hudson and Streamlined Hudson) have the mainframe installed with the opening down, ALL of the Economy 8-coupled engines (Mikado, Berkshire -- and even the longer framed Northern) have the mainframe installed with the opening facing up. As the post-War Articulateds were never produced as a kit, any of those (2-8-8-4 or 4-6-6-4) assembled with all-Varney parts, and using rigid (Economy) frames, would need to use the frames as they were designed to be used with the original engines. Even so, most Articulated were built as Super/sprung-frame engines, even though nothing says they needed to be. The two-part article in 1949 MR no doubt popularized the Articluated to be built as a Super Yellowstone (Yellowstone, as this was how the pre-War kit was offered), but it can be built in other configurations using either Economy or Super mechanisms. Now to get back to your engine -- all other parts of your engine point to the fact that it originally came as an Economy Berkshire, but the previous modeler swapped the 4-wheel trailing truck for a 2-wheel trailing truck, for reasons known only to him. As it stands now, this would not be a representation of any original Varney engine, as it still has all other parts on it that were produced only with the Economy Berkshire. Some of these "give-away" tell tale parts are -- the Laird-type Cylinder Block and the Laird Valve Gear that came with the Berkshire (the Economy Mikado used Alligator Valve Gear), the front-of-the-boiler angle-mounted Bell (the Mikado used the verticle-mounted Bell located between the steam dome and the sand dome) and the front-of-the -frame mounted Radiator and Pumps casting (which the Mikado did not have). Your replacement of the trailing truck with a 4-wheel version would convert this engine back to a restored original as-produced Berkshire. Ray Wetzel. .</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19690	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]

Attachments : 100_3201.JPG 100_3197.JPG 100_3196.JPG sean-     I've attatched some pages from post war Varney cataloges. 3196 is 1951,  3197 is 6/1948 and 3201 is 1949.  They pinpoint the different versions of 2-8-2 /2-8-4.   Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 10:07 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Richard, Attached is the New haven I-4 Pacific:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 1 of 1 Photo(s) 7366818738_392811b492_c.jpg

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19691	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage kits listed for sale on my WEB site

Thanks Steve for the heads up on the messed up columns.  I will look into it.  It looks fine on my resolution screen but may not show up well on other resolutions.   The site reflects my like for building wood kits and scratchbuilding hence the background.  I also do some of my site using basic HTML version 1, or whatever they call it now, code written in notepad.  The "how to" pages are still all done that way. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Denny, > > FYI, fix your tables on the list of items for sale. After a few rows nothing lines up correctly. > > Outside of that, I really like your site's look and feel. This ought'a be worth something as a compliment; One of the things I do in business (Owner of a small computer shop), is small business web development. Self-taught in HTML and hand type my code in Windows Notepad usually. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Mon, 6/25/12, cwrailman cwrailman@... wrote: > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage kits listed for sale on my WEB site > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 25, 2012, 9:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > I have added some vintage kits to the items for sale in the consignment area of my CWRailman Hobby Shop page.  My shipping charges are quite reasonable. Except for one kit that has the floor, ends and roof assembled and the roof is sealed and another kit that is nearly complete (not by me) all the other kits are in near mint condition.  In most, the individual parts packaging has not been opened  There will be additional kits listed in the next few days. > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman  >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19692	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]

Attachments : 100_3202.JPG Sean-   This has the 1949 Mikado. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 25, 2012 10:07 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Richard, Attached is the New haven I-4 Pacific:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 1 of 1 Photo(s) 7366818738_392811b492_c.jpg

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19693	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Tender Finished ?

Attachments : IMG_8122.JPG IMG_8118.JPG I finished up most detail on the scratch built tender I redid. However before I paint it and while I start on the boiler / cab I have to think about that rivet detail and how much time it would involve. I did get the 4 corner ladder steps and the handrail on the back. I also want to think if I can make a separate part like you use to create coal doors on the front of the bin ( 2ND picture ) for Varney wood/aluminum tenders. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19694	From: RalphB	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Wetzel wrote: > Some of these "give-away" > tell tale parts are -- the Laird-type Cylinder Block and the Laird Valve > Gear that came with the Berkshire (the Economy Mikado used Alligator Valve > Gear ------------------ Certainly not to nit-pick someone much more familiar with these locos than I could ever be, but I think you mean Laird crossheads vs alligator-style. The valve gear is Walshaerts. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19695	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Ralph, Thank you for the clarification on the type of valve gear used in some of the Varney locos. It's always good to know the correct nomenclature of steam locomotive parts. While many of us know their correct designation, especially those interested in the prototypes, unfortunately many modelers may not be familiar with these terms, or if they are, the familiarity may only be superficial and they may not know the actual designs and working of these valve gears. While it's always a benefit for those not knowing these terms to learn them, they may not be all that helpful to the Varney modeler as, to the best of my knowledge, Varney never used the term "Walshaerts" in any of the literature he published, so the modeler may not know that Walshaerts valve gear went with Laird guides and crossheads. Instead, Varney referred to his valve gear kits only as "Pacific Valve Gear - Deluxe," "Consolidation Valve Gear - Simplified," "Mikado Valve Gear - Deluxe," "Pacific Valve Gear -- Economy," etc, etc., so unless the Varney modeler knows which crossheads and guides are to be used with these valve gear kits, these valve gear kit names mean nothing to the modeler either, except to tell him which engines they're meant for. So, in attempting to be more specific -- and of more direct use -- I found it best to designate the valve gear types using terms that coincided with the crossheads and guides they are meant to be used with so that there is no question as to their applications. Besides, part of the valve gear components -- the links (used to connect the crossheads to the combination levers) are referred to as either "Laird type Link" or "Alligator type Link." Additionally, with Varney's #1784K Valve Gear Kit, he used #1779-A and #1779-B (outside and inside) Laird-type Link Brackets along with #1819 Alligator-type Crosshead Links, and in his #1788K Valve Gear Kit he used #1779-A and #1779-B Laird-type Link Brackets along with #1780 Alligator-type Outside Valve Gear Hanger. As valve gear kit components normally used with certain types of crossheads were sometimes both used in one valve gear kit, and as not very many modelers know what crossheads are used with Walshaerts valve gear, it seemed more useful when using terms like Laird or Alligator Valve Gear to eliminate any confusion of which crossheads these kits are used for, and to show which kits went with which crosshead types. In Sean's case, it appeared much easier and to the point to just paint the picture that the valve gear used on his Berkshire with Laird crossheads, would not have been used on a Mikado with Alligator crossheads by using matching terms for this valve gear rather than use a more technical (even if correct) term.. Thanks for your input though, it's much appreciated. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19696	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Hi Ray, This is a very interesting post.  I have heard the names Laird and Alligator used on various valve gear components, but never thought about them much.  What is the big difference on these two types and why would one type be used on a Berkshire and not a Mikado?  I do understand (I think...) that you would not mix TYPES (Laird vs. Alligator) on a locomotive, but couldn't Laird or Alligator be used on, for instance, a Mikado or a Pacific?  Personally, when I am looking to model a locomotive, I try to find the correct detail parts by appearance and what it looks like on a prototype.  I have no real idea what type or brand name a detail part may be.  I still have trouble identifying the difference between a Westinghouse compound air pump vs a New York.  I figure, if it uses a compound air pump either is ok.  For example, I generally go with Westinghouse, mostly because it looks right and was likely used on majority of locomotives and New York air pumps are difficult to find in the modeling world.  I am not sure, but I think New York Central was the biggest user of the New York types.  This is just an example of what I am talking about. I do indeed have an old Cyclopedia, but it doesn't really do a good job about these kinds of details.  It is nice to hear something like this from one who knows once in a while. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:10:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Ralph, <----deleted text----->  As valve gear kit components normally used with certain types of crossheads were sometimes both used in one valve gear kit, and as not very many modelers know what crossheads are used with Walshaerts valve gear, it seemed more useful when using terms like Laird or Alligator Valve Gear to eliminate any confusion of which crossheads these kits are used for, and to show which kits went with which crosshead types. In Sean's case, it appeared much easier and to the point to just paint the picture that the valve gear used on his Berkshire with Laird crossheads, would not have been used on a Mikado with Alligator crossheads by using matching terms for this valve gear rather than use a more technical (even if correct) term.. Thanks for your input though, it's much appreciated. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19697	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Attachments : Valve Gear.JPG 7444848562_e2ea712729_o.jpg Hi Ray, Vic, guys... OK. On the topic of valve gear and more specifically the valve gear on this Berk I am working on... I placed the shell on top of the chassis and tightened it down and I found something quite rusticating... See attached pics... The shell, is pushing down on the valve gear hanger, which in turn is pressing down on the cross head guides, which then are now pressing against the main rod, causing the entire system to come to a screeching halt.  My plan to handle this is to grind upside down U shapes into the flat bottom edge of the hanger to more or less wrap around the round end of the cross head guides. I think this will solve the problem.  The only problem i had initially with the chassis jamming was due to these guides hitting the rods. Once I had them tweeked and the chassis running smoothly, I though I was in the clear... Guess again! Now to tear it apart again and re-work the hangers... Any thoughts.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:49 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Hi Ray, This is a very interesting post.  I have heard the names Laird and Alligator used on various valve gear components, but never thought about them much.  What is the big difference on these two types and why would one type be used on a Berkshire and not a Mikado?  I do understand (I think...) that you would not mix TYPES (Laird vs. Alligator) on a locomotive, but couldn't Laird or Alligator be used on, for instance, a Mikado or a Pacific?  Personally, when I am looking to model a locomotive, I try to find the correct detail parts by appearance and what it looks like on a prototype.  I have no real idea what type or brand name a detail part may be.  I still have trouble identifying the difference between a Westinghouse compound air pump vs a New York.  I figure, if it uses a compound air pump either is ok.  For example, I generally go with Westinghouse, mostly because it looks right and was likely used on majority of locomotives and New York air pumps are difficult to find in the modeling world.  I am not sure, but I think New York Central was the biggest user of the New York types.  This is just an example of what I am talking about. I do indeed have an old Cyclopedia, but it doesn't really do a good job about these kinds of details.  It is nice to hear something like this from one who knows once in a while. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:10:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Ralph, <----deleted text----->  As valve gear kit components normally used with certain types of crossheads were sometimes both used in one valve gear kit, and as not very many modelers know what crossheads are used with Walshaerts valve gear, it seemed more useful when using terms like Laird or Alligator Valve Gear to eliminate any confusion of which crossheads these kits are used for, and to show which kits went with which crosshead types. In Sean's case, it appeared much easier and to the point to just paint the picture that the valve gear used on his Berkshire with Laird crossheads, would not have been used on a Mikado with Alligator crossheads by using matching terms for this valve gear rather than use a more technical (even if correct) term.. Thanks for your input though, it's much appreciated. Ray F. W. </HTML>

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19698	From: RalphB	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray F.W. wrote: > > Besides, part of the valve gear components -- the links (used to connect > the crossheads to the combination levers) are referred to as either "Laird > type Link" or "Alligator type Link." Additionally, with Varney's #1784K Valve > Gear Kit, he used #1779-A and #1779-B (outside and inside) Laird-type Link > Brackets along with #1819 Alligator-type Crosshead Links, and in his #1788K > Valve Gear Kit he used #1779-A and #1779-B Laird-type Link Brackets along > with #1780 Alligator-type Outside Valve Gear Hanger. ---------------------- You're right; Varney did kind of mess things up with the designations of some parts. The simple fact is that real railroads used any type of valve gear (e.g., Walschaerts, Baker, Southern, etc.) with any type of crosshead (e.g., Laird, Alligator, multiple bearing, etc.). I found this on a website; it discusses the relative merits of Laird versus alligator crossheads. "The crosshead is the steel block which holds the bearing joining the piston rod and the connecting rod on the side of the locomotive. The 'alligator' crosshead is shaped like an 'H' on its side, with the connecting rod pivot point in the center of the 'H.' It has a bearing surface both above and below the piston pin (the point where the piston rod connects to the main rod, which is supported by the crosshead). "The alligator crosshead was popular from the late 1800s to about 1920; it was preceded by the Laird crosshead, which had it's bearing sandwiched between two guides, both of which were above the pin. The Laird fell out of favor as engines got bigger, because it couldn't provide enough bearing surface. "The alligator crosshead suffered from problems in keeping the two guides aligned, and from uneven wear (the top bearing surface tends to wear more); when very large "superpower" engines came into being it, like the Laird, could no longer provide enough bearing surface." Many later steam locomotives used multiple bearing crossheads that, like the Laird, have their guides only above the piston rod. You can, however, only see the bottom bearing surface; there are many internal channels in the guide which give the crosshead its name. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19699	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]

First see if the cross head guides are completely seated in the cylinder block and are as far forward as they should be.  Will the cylinder block adjust to any further forward.  Do the cross heads move all the way to the rear of the guides as the drivers rotate.  If all of this is OK then I would try two things... Grind or file clearances in the valve gear hanger frame where the air tanks push down on the valve gear hanger frame and... Cut back the valve gear hanger frame where it sits on the cross head guide to where it would not sit on the cross head guide but be just behind it... Both of these would allow the hanger frame to be free of any impinging upon other parts and causing binds, I would cut back the hanger frame to just clear the guides and to nestle just to the rear of the rear end of the guide and behind the guides if that leaves all parts free to move without hindrance.  Make sure the cross head stays within the guide slot as it moves back and forth.  If any of it protrudes out of the slot at the rear end of the guides, file the rear of the cross head to keep it just inside the slot of the guide. Steam engines can be great challenges.  It appears that something you are using with this loco was not designed for it and you need to make adjustments to get it all to function properly.  Scratch building and cross-kitting can bring problems like this. Analyze the problems and take your time making adjustments.  It is a great loco and will be a jewel to operate when the kinks are all ironed out. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 6/27/2012 10:57 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Ray, Vic, guys... OK. On the topic of valve gear and more specifically the valve gear on this Berk I am working on... I placed the shell on top of the chassis and tightened it down and I found something quite rusticating... See attached pics... The shell, is pushing down on the valve gear hanger, which in turn is pressing down on the cross head guides, which then are now pressing against the main rod, causing the entire system to come to a screeching halt.  My plan to handle this is to grind upside down U shapes into the flat bottom edge of the hanger to more or less wrap around the round end of the cross head guides. I think this will solve the problem.  The only problem i had initially with the chassis jamming was due to these guides hitting the rods. Once I had them tweeked and the chassis running smoothly, I though I was in the clear... Guess again! Now to tear it apart again and re-work the hangers... Any thoughts.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:49 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Hi Ray, This is a very interesting post.  I have heard the names Laird and Alligator used on various valve gear components, but never thought about them much.  What is the big difference on these two types and why would one type be used on a Berkshire and not a Mikado?  I do understand (I think...) that you would not mix TYPES (Laird vs. Alligator) on a locomotive, but couldn't Laird or Alligator be used on, for instance, a Mikado or a Pacific?  Personally, when I am looking to model a locomotive, I try to find the correct detail parts by appearance and what it looks like on a prototype.  I have no real idea what type or brand name a detail part may be.  I still have trouble identifying the difference between a Westinghouse compound air pump vs a New York.  I figure, if it uses a compound air pump either is ok.  For example, I generally go with Westinghouse, mostly because it looks right and was likely used on majority of locomotives and New York air pumps are difficult to find in the modeling world.  I am not sure, but I think New York Central was the biggest user of the New York types.  This is just an example of what I am talking about. I do indeed have an old Cyclopedia, but it doesn't really do a good job about these kinds of details.  It is nice to hear something like this from one who knows once in a while. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:10:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Ralph, <----deleted text----->  As valve gear kit components normally used with certain types of crossheads were sometimes both used in one valve gear kit, and as not very many modelers know what crossheads are used with Walshaerts valve gear, it seemed more useful when using terms like Laird or Alligator Valve Gear to eliminate any confusion of which crossheads these kits are used for, and to show which kits went with which crosshead types. In Sean's case, it appeared much easier and to the point to just paint the picture that the valve gear used on his Berkshire with Laird crossheads, would not have been used on a Mikado with Alligator crossheads by using matching terms for this valve gear rather than use a more technical (even if correct) term.. Thanks for your input though, it's much appreciated. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19700	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]

Hi Sean, I am always a bit leery about filing into something that ordinarily doesn't need it.  I have done this several times in the past thinking that was the problem, when in all reality, I was trying to compensate for a problem I had not yet seen, that I found later.  Not being familiar with that locomotive, I cannot tell you unequivocally what needs to be done, BUT, looking at the following picture; http://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionvarney/Varneyassembleyinstr1938pg05.jpg  I suggest to file the center of the valve gear hanger to allow the boiler to fit without pushing it down.  This is just a guess, of course, but according to the online instructions, it seem to be sensible,  This is on OOOLD locomotive.  According to HO Seeker, these instructions are from 1938. Good luck and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:57:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hi Ray, Vic, guys... OK. On the topic of valve gear and more specifically the valve gear on this Berk I am working on... I placed the shell on top of the chassis and tightened it down and I found something quite rusticating... See attached pics... The shell, is pushing down on the valve gear hanger, which in turn is pressing down on the cross head guides, which then are now pressing against the main rod, causing the entire system to come to a screeching halt.  My plan to handle this is to grind upside down U shapes into the flat bottom edge of the hanger to more or less wrap around the round end of the cross head guides. I think this will solve the problem.  The only problem i had initially with the chassis jamming was due to these guides hitting the rods. Once I had them tweeked and the chassis running smoothly, I though I was in the clear... Guess again! Now to tear it apart again and re-work the hangers... Any thoughts.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:49 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Hi Ray, This is a very interesting post.  I have heard the names Laird and Alligator used on various valve gear components, but never thought about them much.  What is the big difference on these two types and why would one type be used on a Berkshire and not a Mikado?  I do understand (I think...) that you would not mix TYPES (Laird vs. Alligator) on a locomotive, but couldn't Laird or Alligator be used on, for instance, a Mikado or a Pacific?  Personally, when I am looking to model a locomotive, I try to find the correct detail parts by appearance and what it looks like on a prototype.  I have no real idea what type or brand name a detail part may be.  I still have trouble identifying the difference between a Westinghouse compound air pump vs a New York.  I figure, if it uses a compound air pump either is ok.  For example, I generally go with Westinghouse, mostly because it looks right and was likely used on majority of locomotives and New York air pumps are difficult to find in the modeling world.  I am not sure, but I think New York Central was the biggest user of the New York types.  This is just an example of what I am talking about. I do indeed have an old Cyclopedia, but it doesn't really do a good job about these kinds of details.  It is nice to hear something like this from one who knows once in a while. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:10:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Ralph, <----deleted text----->  As valve gear kit components normally used with certain types of crossheads were sometimes both used in one valve gear kit, and as not very many modelers know what crossheads are used with Walshaerts valve gear, it seemed more useful when using terms like Laird or Alligator Valve Gear to eliminate any confusion of which crossheads these kits are used for, and to show which kits went with which crosshead types. In Sean's case, it appeared much easier and to the point to just paint the picture that the valve gear used on his Berkshire with Laird crossheads, would not have been used on a Mikado with Alligator crossheads by using matching terms for this valve gear rather than use a more technical (even if correct) term.. Thanks for your input though, it's much appreciated. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19701	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Hi Vic, To start with, the type of valve gear used depends on the type of crossheads being used, as the type of valve gear is directly dependent, first of all, on the crosshead, and that's where it's all centered. The main difference between the two types of crosshead designs being discussed and referenced to Varney, is that the Laird type crosshead is supported only between a single two-piece crosshead guide (and bearing surface) on top of the crosshead pin, whereas the Alligator type crosshead is supported by a crosshead guide on top of the crosshead pin and on the bottom of the crosshead pin. (crosshead screw, in Varney engines). In the prototype steam engines, you can see how the a crosshead being pushed against the drivers via the main rod with enormous force, and being supported by only one crosshead, as in the Laird type, would be off-center to the force being exerted through the crosshead pin. This caused the Laird type crosshead guides to wear much more rapidly as beside being the guide for the crosshead, it was also the friction bearing surface -- this again, is in the prototype. The Alligator type crosshead, on the other hand, being supported evenly by an upper and a lower crosshead guide, was not beinmg supported off-center of the crosshead pin as the crosshead had even support -- and wore more evenly. Mainly, the Laird crossheads were used on slower-operating engines, generally in freight service, although it was used on passenger engine but then mostly on slower branch line passenger engines. It's application was not limited to just smaller engines though, as the N&W (as an example) used these crossheads on their Class "A" (2-6-6-4) articulated engines. As the N&W built most of their steam engines in their Roanoke, VA shops, they could modify their crossheads to suite their needs, as so they also used Laird type crossheads on their fast passenger streamlined Class "J" as well. In the Varney models, it's simply a matter again, of the usage of a valve gear set being determined by the type of crosshead being used. In the Varney Mikado kit -- Super OR Economy, pre-War OR post-War -- Korean War era, or not -- these kits came with Alligator crossheads and a cylinder block having been machined for accepted (factory installed) a pair (upper & lower) of square brass stock as guides for these Alligator type crossheads. The Varney Berkshire, on the other hand, was offered only as a Economy (rigid frame) model, and only with Laird crosshead and a cylinder block machined to accept only the two-piece Laird crosshead guide. There was really no choice on what valve gear to use on Varney models as not only were the needed tyupe of valve gear suppled with the kits, but the type of cylinder block supplied dictated which crossheads needed to be used. As for whether the Varney modeler could use a valve gear set designed for use with Laird crossheads on an engine having Alligator crossheads, or vice-versa, I can only guess by observation (I've never tried it) that it could probably be done -- except that you'd probably need to limit the transfer to the same driver size/configuration. As the Radius Rods on the 72" 6-Drivered Pacifics are a different length than the Radius Rods for the 63" 8-Drivered Mikado and Berkshire, you would run into trouble here trying to install one valve gear set for another. I believe the combination lever is a different length in the valve gear kit designed for the Laird crosshead as opposed to this same part in the valve gear kit designed for the Alligator crossheads, however, so if you made a swap even between two types of valve gear set designed for the same Driver size and configuration, you would have to use the combination lever designed for the type of crosshead arrangement you have on the engine. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19702	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Attachments : Valve Gear Original.JPG Din Vic, Ray and Guys.. I found my mistake/problem and now to solve it (some time later this week when I am not at work) I took a close-up look at the existing valve gear of the pre-restored model and the attached image is what I saw. As suggested by Don below, the hanger should be positioned such that it is behind the crosshead guide.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   First see if the cross head guides are completely seated in the cylinder block and are as far forward as they should be.  Will the cylinder block adjust to any further forward.  Do the cross heads move all the way to the rear of the guides as the drivers rotate.  If all of this is OK then I would try two things... Grind or file clearances in the valve gear hanger frame where the air tanks push down on the valve gear hanger frame and... Cut back the valve gear hanger frame where it sits on the cross head guide to where it would not sit on the cross head guide but be just behind it... Both of these would allow the hanger frame to be free of any impinging upon other parts and causing binds, I would cut back the hanger frame to just clear the guides and to nestle just to the rear of the rear end of the guide and behind the guides if that leaves all parts free to move without hindrance.  Make sure the cross head stays within the guide slot as it moves back and forth.  If any of it protrudes out of the slot at the rear end of the guides, file the rear of the cross head to keep it just inside the slot of the guide. Steam engines can be great challenges.  It appears that something you are using with this loco was not designed for it and you need to make adjustments to get it all to function properly.  Scratch building and cross-kitting can bring problems like this. Analyze the problems and take your time making adjustments.  It is a great loco and will be a jewel to operate when the kinks are all ironed out. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19703	From: hooligan	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments]

Vic , if I may put my 2 cents in . That seems to be the fix for that valve gear hanger . Doesn't matter what year ! As for crossheads it's either Laird multiple bearings , or Alligator style . The other differences come with valve motion types , Baker , Southern , etc. ? My take on it . Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean,I am always a bit leery about filing into something that ordinarily doesn't need it. I have done this several times in the past thinking that was the problem, when in all reality, I was trying to compensate for a problem I had not yet seen, that I found later. Not being familiar with that locomotive, I cannot tell you unequivocally what needs to be done, BUT, looking at the following picture;http://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionvarney/Varneyassembleyinstr1938pg05.jpg I suggest to file the center of the valve gear hanger to allow the boiler to fit without pushing it down. This is just a guess, of course, but according to the online instructions, it seem to be sensible, This is on OOOLD locomotive. According to HO Seeker, these instructions are from 1938.Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: a69mustang4me@... > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:57:57 -0700 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [2 Attachments] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] > > > Hi Ray, Vic, guys... > OK. On the topic of valve gear and more specifically the valve gear on this Berk I am working on... > I placed the shell on top of the chassis and tightened it down and I found something quite rusticating... > See attached pics... > The shell, is pushing down on the valve gear hanger, which in turn is pressing down on the cross head guides, which then are now pressing against the main rod, causing the entire system to come to a screeching halt. > My plan to handle this is to grind upside down U shapes into the flat bottom edge of the hanger to more or less > wrap around the round end of the cross head guides. I think this will solve the problem. > The only problem i had initially with the chassis jamming was due to these guides hitting the rods. Once I had them tweeked and the chassis running smoothly, I though I was in the clear... Guess again! Now to tear it apart again and re-work the hangers... > > Any thoughts. Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:49 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray,This is a very interesting post. I have heard the names Laird and Alligator used on various valve gear components, but never thought about them much. What is the big difference on these two types and why would one type be used on a Berkshire and not a Mikado? I do understand (I think...) that you would not mix TYPES (Laird vs. Alligator) on a locomotive, but couldn't Laird or Alligator be used on, for instance, a Mikado or a Pacific? Personally, when I am looking to model a locomotive, I try to find the correct detail parts by appearance and what it looks like on a prototype. I have no real idea what type or brand name a detail part may be. I still have trouble identifying the difference between a Westinghouse compound air pump vs a New York. I figure, if it uses a compound air pump either is ok. For example, I generally go with Westinghouse, mostly because it looks right and was likely used on > majority of locomotives and New York air pumps are difficult to find in the modeling world. I am not sure, but I think New York Central was the biggest user of the New York types. This is just an example of what I am talking about.I do indeed have an old Cyclopedia, but it doesn't really do a good job about these kinds of details. It is nice to hear something like this from one who knows once in a while.Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: erieberk@... > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:10:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ralph, > > <----deleted text-----> > As valve gear kit > > components normally used with certain types of crossheads were sometimes both used > > in one valve gear kit, and as not very many modelers know what crossheads > > are used with Walshaerts valve gear, it seemed more useful when using terms > > like Laird or Alligator Valve Gear to eliminate any confusion of which > > crossheads these kits are used for, and to show which kits went with which > > crosshead types. In Sean's case, it appeared much easier and to the point to just > > paint the picture that the valve gear used on his Berkshire with Laird > > crossheads, would not have been used on a Mikado with Alligator crossheads by > > using matching terms for this valve gear rather than use a more technical (even > > if correct) term.. Thanks for your input though, it's much appreciated. > > > > Ray F. W. > > </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19704	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]

Good going Sean.  Don Staton in VA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 6/27/2012 2:35 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Din Vic, Ray and Guys.. I found my mistake/problem and now to solve it (some time later this week when I am not at work) I took a close-up look at the existing valve gear of the pre-restored model and the attached image is what I saw. As suggested by Don below, the hanger should be positioned such that it is behind the crosshead guide.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   First see if the cross head guides are completely seated in the cylinder block and are as far forward as they should be.  Will the cylinder block adjust to any further forward.  Do the cross heads move all the way to the rear of the guides as the drivers rotate.  If all of this is OK then I would try two things... Grind or file clearances in the valve gear hanger frame where the air tanks push down on the valve gear hanger frame and... Cut back the valve gear hanger frame where it sits on the cross head guide to where it would not sit on the cross head guide but be just behind it... Both of these would allow the hanger frame to be free of any impinging upon other parts and causing binds, I would cut back the hanger frame to just clear the guides and to nestle just to the rear of the rear end of the guide and behind the guides if that leaves all parts free to move without hindrance.  Make sure the cross head stays within the guide slot as it moves back and forth.  If any of it protrudes out of the slot at the rear end of the guides, file the rear of the cross head to keep it just inside the slot of the guide. Steam engines can be great challenges.  It appears that something you are using with this loco was not designed for it and you need to make adjustments to get it all to function properly.  Scratch building and cross-kitting can bring problems like this. Analyze the problems and take your time making adjustments.  It is a great loco and will be a jewel to operate when the kinks are all ironed out. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19705	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Front Coal Doors

Attachments : IMG_8125.JPG Jeff P, I got brave and added the detail for the coal bin doors. I wasn't going to but you said no problem. It wasn't easy I have to clean a little glue from around the hinges ( railroad spikes ). Not to bad for my shaky pair of hands. Chuck H Add this to the album. Will be starting on the boiler probably tomorrow. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19706	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Front Coal Doors [1 Attachment]

AWESOME JIM!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Front Coal Doors [1 Attachment]   Jeff P, I got brave and added the detail for the coal bin doors. I wasn't going to but you said no problem. It wasn't easy I have to clean a little glue from around the hinges ( railroad spikes ). Not to bad for my shaky pair of hands. Chuck H Add this to the album. Will be starting on the boiler probably tomorrow. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19707	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: LaBelle Passenger Car Build/Bash

Check out my June 27 1012  blog for some photo's of a LaBelle passenger car build/bash that I now have in progress in my shops.  There is a photo of it's smaller sibling shown in the Roster page under passenger cars. Hit the comment feature and let me know what you think of the build. By the way, incase you have not noticed, my WEB site has no advertising! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19708	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [1 Attachment]

Sean, I didn't quite understand (couldn't picture) what you were first trying to say your problem was. But, now I see what you mean by the boiler eventually pushing the crosshead guides down, by it pushing down on the valve gear hanger. As I believe Vic mentions, the hanger shouldn't straddle the crosshead guides, but drop down behind it instead -- completely independent of the crosshead guides, but it looks like you discovered this. I could send you a Berkshire instruction sheet (copy) if you need one. While you have it apart, and with the motor removed, move the crossheads through the full back and forth range of the guides, by hand, to make sure there is no binding. Also notice if the crossheads touch either the very forward or rear part of their range in the crosshead guide, while moving by hand. If you feel a binding, you'll need to make some adjustments (or slight filing) of either the crossheads or their guides -- best done (if needed) by removing the crossheads from their guides. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19709	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: LaBelle Passenger Car Build/Bash

Denny and all, Looks good so far. In addition to a combination baggage/coach/caboose, it would also work as a drover's caboose at the end of a livestock train. Maybe also appropriate for a circus train, even. Could even represent a home built segregated car from a backwoods southern railroad line. In that case, I would imagine that you'd put this at the end of the train, baggage end first, with a standard coach in front. Looks like a versatile car with lots of opportunities. Would only take very minor detailing differences to be anything mentioned above, if even that! I may end up building a drover's car someday. I have enough stock cars, including some Varney 36' tenite sided cars that are actually in great shape (Yes, there are some out there still!). Been scratchbuilding (slowly) a few stockyards out of stripwood. Commercial kits either won't fit properly where I want them, and also I ran into how to line up cars against the cattle chutes. I have 36' and 40' HO scale cattle cars, and also 40' OO scale cars on HO trucks. As OO is slightly larger than HO scale, they come out to be about 45' in HO. Building my own cattle yards is solving this: One siding accomodates the OO cars, the other has several pens built for 40' cars, and two more behind them that accomodate 36' cars, which makes for interesting switching at times! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/27/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] LaBelle Passenger Car Build/Bash To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2012, 3:56 PM   Check out my June 27 1012  blog for some photo's of a LaBelle passenger car build/bash that I now have in progress in my shops.  There is a photo of it's smaller sibling shown in the Roster page under passenger cars. Hit the comment feature and let me know what you think of the build. By the way, incase you have not noticed, my WEB site has no advertising! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19710	From: nico	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project [4 Attachments]

Why did you strip the paint off the o'l girl? Sure the T&P never had a berkshire, but does that really matter? I'd love to get my hands on one of those jems!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19711	From: nico	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: scratch built Pacific

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Since I finished my Mogul for now (might > paint) I started again on the Brass scratch built engine I bought. I > started on the tender which had some dings on the sides and needed work > on the back top. Also the coal bin was never finished. I started to add > pieces to make it more presentable. A lot of filing and filling on > another project. Due to all the work needed it will have to be painted, > decaled and especially coal added as previous owner/builder had some > kind of clear "epoxy" in bottom of coal bin and on top of that had > Hydrocal as a load to just put coal on top but I had to take apart to > add to it. I soon will have the basic repair done and will start > details like handrails ,ladders, etc. > > Jim H > Jim, that pacific reminds me of an article series from late 1949 to February 1950, in Model Railroader! I picked up the issues last year, and I think your locomotive was inspired by it! I'll compare the images to the articles, and hopefuly get back to you soon on this development.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19712	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Nico, I collect (and will some day run again) New Haven. The rest I just collect. The T&P paint was not terrible, but it was not great and limited me on what i could do with the locomotive. Stripping the paint and cleaning all the parts made it look a lot better and left the door open if I were to decide to try and sell it again in the future...besides, I really wanted to convert it back to a Berk. If the paint and details were of the quality of say any of these Mantua & Varney locomotives I have, I would have left it alone. Mantua post-war Atlantic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6125883934/in/set-72157623238233266/ Mantua pre-war Consolidation: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4387633701/in/set-72157623384254115 Varney Super Consolidation: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4312580505/ Varney Economy Pacific: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4312580413/in/set-72157623116890157/   I have this Mantua pre-war Pacific on display, but the paint is very bad and I have been itching to restore it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5348301544/in/set-72157623238233266 There is nothing better than a good patina on a vintage piece, but for me it has to be displayable as is. I think a good patina on a well preserved and painted piece helps the value, but bad paint on an engine like the one just above, hurts it. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: nico <trainguru@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 1:09 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Why did you strip the paint off the o'l girl? Sure the T&P never had a berkshire, but does that really matter? I'd love to get my hands on one of those jems!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19713	From: Nelson	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Sean, I think I see what you mean. The crosshead guide looks to have a slot at the rear that the hanger is supposed to fit into, but the hanger is too far back and is resting on top of it instead, which explains why the guide looks like it's angled downward from the pressure. I assume then that the screw hole for the hanger is slotted to allow for some front-to-back alignment? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Din Vic, Ray and Guys.. > > I found my mistake/problem and now to solve it (some time later this week when I am not at work) > > I took a close-up look at the existing valve gear of the pre-restored model and the attached image is what I saw. > > As suggested by Don below, the hanger should be positioned such that it is behind the crosshead guide. >   > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19714	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

Nelson, Yes, but I think to fix it, I need to remove the steam chest, cross heads/drive rod screw and press the cross head guides farther into the steam chests. The hanger pulled all the way back was still on top of the guides when I originally put it back together. When I re-assembled I left the valve gear completely assembled, including the main rods and cross heads. this made pressing the guides a challenge because it was done at the same time the chest and valve gear were being placed on. Now if I remove the guides and cross heads and press them into the chest and then replace just the crew between the rods and cross heads it should be able to press the guides into the chests farther.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 1:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project   Sean, I think I see what you mean. The crosshead guide looks to have a slot at the rear that the hanger is supposed to fit into, but the hanger is too far back and is resting on top of it instead, which explains why the guide looks like it's angled downward from the pressure. I assume then that the screw hole for the hanger is slotted to allow for some front-to-back alignment? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Din Vic, Ray and Guys.. > > I found my mistake/problem and now to solve it (some time later this week when I am not at work) > > I took a close-up look at the existing valve gear of the pre-restored model and the attached image is what I saw. > > As suggested by Don below, the hanger should be positioned such that it is behind the crosshead guide. >   > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19715	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Scratch Built Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8138.JPG IMG_8137.JPG Nico, All, Here are both sides of the engine so you can see the detail and see if it matches to engine series in Model Railroader 49-50 . Since tender done have moved on to the Boiler /Cab. Overall it's not to bad but the cab had been mostly knocked off leaving depressions and creases which need filling and filing after I got it straightened out and back on. I have started to fill with epoxy which is a rough coat to get the shape back. It will be sanded off and a final coat put on to help feather edges and fill in any little places missed to get everything squared. I find it's better to do two times. The other thing is the builder has a lot of extra solder that I will try to take down especially some bigger chunks under the walk ways and cab. Other then needing a bell, which I have, this engine is nicely detailed and the frame is nice too. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19716	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Pacific [2 Attachments]

Hi Jim,   On site, photos loaded to the folder for your project.  Went to Steam Town over in Scranton yesterday.  Great day, lots of photos to process and then load in my site.  That will take a few days.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 6:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Scratch Built Pacific [2 Attachments]     Nico, All, Here are both sides of the engine so you can see the detail and see if it matches to engine series in Model Railroader 49-50 . Since tender done have moved on to the Boiler /Cab. Overall it's not to bad but the cab had been mostly knocked off leaving depressions and creases which need filling and filing after I got it straightened out and back on. I have started to fill with epoxy which is a rough coat to get the shape back. It will be sanded off and a final coat put on to help feather edges and fill in any little places missed to get everything squared. I find it's better to do two times. The other thing is the builder has a lot of extra solder that I will try to take down especially some bigger chunks under the walk ways and cab. Other then needing a bell, which I have, this engine is nicely detailed and the frame is nice too. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19717	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Built Pacific

Hi Chuck,            On site.       Glad you enjoyed your trip to Steamtown. Lots to see.  I like Altoona and the Strasburg Pennsy Museum also. Two years ago Larry Stevenson of HOseeker was vising and we wrangled a tour of the Blue Mountain & Reading / Blue Mountain & Northern Companies offices and their shops. A Vice President of rebuilding equipment took us in to see the refurbished, repainted 4-6-2 Pacific they use on excursions. We also saw a full dome streamlined passenger car that they were repairing for the owner and employees when they had excursions. I think it came from Union Pacific or Santa Fe. It was a neat visit and unexpected. We saw their Reading painted Diesels (Green and Yellow) and a Reading RDC in another building that are used on excursions also. The owner of these companies, Andy Mueller has his own private railroad. He hauls freight, coal and material ( raw and finished from many companies in the area. He at one time had a Reading T-1 4-8-4 and hauled a string of coal filled cars from Gilberton to Hamburg which was his main hub then and also where excursions usually start from till he built newer shops up the road near Leesport. The 4-8-4 was later rebuilt I think at Steamtown and the Reading Historical Society has it now.. Not run anymore that I know of.                                   Jim H On 6/29/2012 10:42 AM, Chuck Higdon wrote:   Hi Jim,   On site, photos loaded to the folder for your project.  Went to Steam Town over in Scranton yesterday.  Great day, lots of photos to process and then load in my site.  That will take a few days.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 6:10 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Scratch Built Pacific [2 Attachments]     Nico, All, Here are both sides of the engine so you can see the detail and see if it matches to engine series in Model Railroader 49-50 . Since tender done have moved on to the Boiler /Cab. Overall it's not to bad but the cab had been mostly knocked off leaving depressions and creases which need filling and filing after I got it straightened out and back on. I have started to fill with epoxy which is a rough coat to get the shape back. It will be sanded off and a final coat put on to help feather edges and fill in any little places missed to get everything squared. I find it's better to do two times. The other thing is the builder has a lot of extra solder that I will try to take down especially some bigger chunks under the walk ways and cab. Other then needing a bell, which I have, this engine is nicely detailed and the frame is nice too. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19718	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: Front Coal Doors [1 Attachment]

Jim, Looks good. I never thought of using track spikes for long door hinges. Not a bad idea at all! Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/27/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Front Coal Doors [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2012, 3:35 PM   Jeff P, I got brave and added the detail for the coal bin doors. I wasn't going to but you said no problem. It wasn't easy I have to clean a little glue from around the hinges ( railroad spikes ). Not to bad for my shaky pair of hands. Chuck H Add this to the album. Will be starting on the boiler probably tomorrow. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19719	From: RalphB	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Re: Visiting the prototype (was Scratch Built Pacific)

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > we wrangled a tour of the > Blue Mountain & Reading / Blue Mountain & Northern (Company's)offices and > their shops. -------------- I have an HO scale hopper car that was given to my supervisor by the folks at the Reading, Blue Mountain & Northern (AAR uniform alpha code RBMN), d/b/a Reading & Northern. He isn't a model railroader, so he gave me the car. That had to be before 2001, which is when my employment with the D&H/CP was terminated. While I got to work with several shortlines while in the Marketing Department, I never did meet the folks at the R&N. I once got a personalized tour of the Lehigh Valley's Sayre (PA) shops. The LV wasn't a shortline; it just acted like one. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19720	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Scratch Built Pacific Frame/Drivers

Attachments : IMG_8148.JPG IMG_8147.JPG IMG_8146.JPG IMG_8144.JPG I cleaned up the frame, valve gear and drivers the best I could and then used soap & water. I'm going to paint it with a flat black rattle can ( as usual ) even the drivers and the valve gear. No need to chemically blacken . When the paint is slightly dry I will scrap the part of the drivers that ride the rail as I will do with the Tender trucks and Engines leading and trailing trucks. Then they will be put on the side to harden for a week. I will cover the drive gear so no paint gets in where I won't be able to get it cleaned out. The only part the frame/ drive needs is a front coupler. One odd thing you might see in the last two pictures the original builder bent the the hand made side rods slightly ( like a wide U ) to clear the the screw on the one driver. Hardly noticeable but the drive works beautiful so I'm not going to take all apart to change it. also still filling & filing the cab / boiler. Chuck: Please add these before pictures. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19721	From: Mike	Date: 7/1/2012
Subject: Paul Moore streamliner plan

Does someone have the kit diagram for the Paul Moore streamliner and be willing to send me a scan of it? I missed out on a couple of the kits on eBay in the last few years and would love to build some of the variations for myself. If I could also get a scan of the cut-out curved front end (flat panel) I'd feel very lucky for that as well. Thanks, Mike Bauers, on da phone....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19722	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/1/2012
Subject: Old Tender

I was lucky enough to win an auction for two of the Varney Vandy Tender castings. I just unboxed them. They look to be factory fresh and need just a bit of cleaning up. In my case, I'll be cleaning up one of the sets with my mill to square up some edges, remove some casting tangs, and better define the cast on water hatches. I've long liked the styling of these tenders and I want to re-do them as welded and riveted versions using detail decals. I really like the different types of weld details from Archer Transfers. They make a detailed welded tender very possible. Later this week I'll be milling one of the tender body sets and perhaps I'll get the molds made later in the week. I want to preserve one of the tender castings and eventually display it with one of the final upgraded cast tenders. So the first castings will be used to detail-decal the welding and riveting versions, followed by second molds of the fully welded and riveted versions. I think it's something I'll enjoy doing. Now if I can only find another Varney streamlined steamer body to cast and update........... Actually, if I can only get the guts to cast the one I have, then I can have Varney style streamliners with Varney Vandy tenders. I know I'll only cast one or two of the original Streamliner shells to body putty, smooth, and detail. I'm hesitant to make a mold that I'll only use about two times. But if I can't get another streamliner body to rework, I'll go the two step molding method a bit later this year. Best to ya, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19723	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8157.JPG IMG_8156.JPG IMG_8155.JPG IMG_8154.JPG While I'm still repairing the boiler but mostly the cab for the scratch brass Pacific I bought I got some rattle cans of Testor's Flat Black paint. Decided to start painting the completed frame, lead & trailing trucks so the paint can harden a little. I started to scratch the paint of the drivers where they ride the rails but must let it set up a little more. You have to clean them before paint really hardens so while cleaning it doesn't take small chips off the places you don't want. I'm sure many don't like I painted the drivers,valve gear and rods but I've done it before and as the paint ages it doesn't look bad. I guess some people are bored with this project but this is what I like to do. Thanks to Chuck H there is an album showing this rebuild from before & after. It's listed under my name Jim Heckard

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19724	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]

Jim,   Your projects are anything but boring. Whenever you’re working on one I am always anxious to see your next installment as to your progress. As the saying goes, “You da man!”   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] While I'm still repairing the boiler but mostly the cab for the scratch brass Pacific I bought I got some rattle cans of Testor's Flat Black paint. Decided to start painting the completed frame, lead & trailing trucks so the paint can harden a little. I started to scratch the paint of the drivers where they ride the rails but must let it set up a little more. You have to clean them before paint really hardens so while cleaning it doesn't take small chips off the places you don't want. I'm sure many don't like I painted the drivers,valve gear and rods but I've done it before and as the paint ages it doesn't look bad. I guess some people are bored with this project but this is what I like to do. Thanks to Chuck H there is an album showing this rebuild from before & after. It's listed under my name Jim Heckard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19725	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

Jim, We are all grateful that you are both skilled and well disciplined enough to keep us well informed of your excellent work. Please don't stop! Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19726	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: [NorthAmericaRailfans] all (20) NS Hertiage Units In N.C.

Here they are, all together.  http://www.railpictures.net/photo/402338  I received this link from the D&H group of which I am a member. They received it from a member, Chris Tirone, to whom we can all be grateful. I thought you would all be interested. Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19727	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]

Hi Jim, To be truthful, it would not have been my choice to spray-paint the valve gear, only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints and gumming up the works, but if you've had success with this method, I can't argue with that. As for my possible being bored with any of your projects, nothing could be further from the truth. I thoroughly enjoy every project you display on this List and attentively follow them all, eagerly looking for the end result of your fine modelling skills -- even if I don't often comment on them all. I've kept every series of your projects' attachments just as reminders of how they've progressed, including the monster coke bottle (LOL). Keep up the good work, it makes for very interesting inserts here.. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19728	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

Jim, Others have said it already, but to me what I appreciate about your posts is the inspiration to go ahead and restore some of my older models. Some of my early 50's brass 'kits' gained from eBay have been sitting because I literally didn't know how to start. Thanks for posting and please don't stop. V/r Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > While I'm still repairing the boiler but > mostly the cab for the scratch brass Pacific I bought I got some rattle > cans of Testor's Flat Black paint. Decided to start painting the > completed frame, lead & trailing trucks so the paint can harden a > little. I started to scratch the paint of the drivers where they ride > the rails but must let it set up a little more. You have to clean them > before paint really hardens so while cleaning it doesn't take small > chips off the places you don't want. > > I'm sure many don't like I painted the drivers,valve gear and > rods but I've done it before and as the paint ages it doesn't look bad. > I guess some people are bored with this project but this is what I like > to do. > > Thanks to Chuck H there is an album showing this rebuild from before > & after. It's listed under my name > > Jim Heckard >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19729	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

Hi Ray, I have read articles in Model Railroad magazines and have seen videos where the person air brushing the valve gear has power to the motor and the valve gear is in motion.  You put a light spray on the gear and get full coverage without gumming up the works.  It appears to be very effective.  I believe the color used is a mix of black and silver, but certainly locomotive paint could also be used, which is a mix of 1/4 reefer white (or gray) and 3/4 black with a drop of boxcar red. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 07:27:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Painting My Rebuilt Pacific   Hi Jim, To be truthful, it would not have been my choice to spray-paint the valve gear, only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints and gumming up the works, but if you've had success with this method, I can't argue with that. As for my possible being bored with any of your projects, nothing could be further from the truth. I thoroughly enjoy every project you display on this List and attentively follow them all, eagerly looking for the end result of your fine modelling skills -- even if I don't often comment on them all. I've kept every series of your projects' attachments just as reminders of how they've progressed, including the monster coke bottle (LOL). Keep up the good work, it makes for very interesting inserts here.. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19730	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

Years ago when I was visiting a modeling acquaintance I noted black paint along an unfinished section of roadbed about 30 inches long.  I asked him what it was about and he said that was how he painted his locomotives.  I really thought he was joking but after that night session he grabbed a unpainted brass model and demonstrated that he would get the model running and when it entered that piece of track he would spray it.  All of his loco's were painted straight black out of an aerosol can so there was no "detail" painting and his paint jobs were rather crude but he did not care.  It was his loco and it was black and that was all he cared about.  He would then take an abrasive block and clean the top surface of the track.  We named all bad paint jobs we saw from that point on after him.   If you check out my Roundhouse page you will see that I paint the valve mechanism and running gear on all my freight and some of my passenger locomotives.  A few of these were done when completely disassembled but a few were done with the drivers and running gear installed in the frame after the frame had been painted separately.  With the boiler off and the motor removed it allowed me to rotate the drivers during the spraying process.  I usually have thin strips of Scotch magic tape wrapped around the driver threads.  I have never had a problem with the mechanism gumming up but then this is all done with an air brush and these locomotives usually have tight tolerances that don't allow the paint to flow down onto the bearing surfaces.  I also use Floquil which is not as thick as some other paints and the model is allowed to dry for several weeks before it is reassembled and run.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Ray,I have read articles in Model Railroad magazines and have seen videos where the person air brushing the valve gear has power to the motor and the valve gear is in motion. You put a light spray on the gear and get full coverage without gumming up the works. It appears to be very effective. I believe the color used is a mix of black and silver, but certainly locomotive paint could also be used, which is a mix of 1/4 reefer white (or gray) and 3/4 black with a drop of boxcar red. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: erieberk@... > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 07:27:40 -0400 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Painting My Rebuilt Pacific > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > To be truthful, it would not have been my choice to spray-paint the valve > > gear, only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints and > > gumming up the works, but if you've had success with this method, I can't argue > > with that. As for my possible being bored with any of your projects, > > nothing could be further from the truth. I thoroughly enjoy every project you > > display on this List and attentively follow them all, eagerly looking for the > > end result of your fine modelling skills -- even if I don't often comment on > > them all. I've kept every series of your projects' attachments just as > > reminders of how they've progressed, including the monster coke bottle (LOL). > > Keep up the good work, it makes for very interesting inserts here.. > > > > Ray Wetzel</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19731	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Rattle Can Paint Jobs

Attachments : IMG_8160.JPG IMG_8159.JPG IMG_8158.JPG Sending these pictures just to show some of the Engines I sprayed using Testor's spray cans. The spoked drivers were painted with the drivers in the frame. All 3 had the valve gear and rods spray painted and none, even others not shown, ever had a binding problem. All had the drivers cleaned with an Exacto knife carefully where the drivers ride the rail. I hand push the frames back and forth on track to make sure nothing binding. No oil yet. I then put the motors in and run the engines forward and reverse and clean the drivers with fine Emory cloth for better electrical pick up. No oil yet and put on shelf with no oil till I intend to run an engine long term. Like I said no binding and I like how Testor's paint ages to dull the flat color more. Jim H all

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19732	From: nico	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Nico, > > I collect (and will some day run again) New Haven. The rest I just collect. The T&P paint was not terrible, but it was not great and limited me on what i could do with the locomotive. Stripping the paint and cleaning all the parts made it look a lot better and left the door open if I were to decide to try and sell it again in the future...besides, I really wanted to convert it back to a Berk. > > If the paint and details were of the quality of say any of these Mantua & Varney locomotives I have, I would have left it alone. > > > Mantua post-war Atlantic: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6125883934/in/set-72157623238233266/ > Mantua pre-war Consolidation: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4387633701/in/set-72157623384254115 > > Varney Super Consolidation: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4312580505/ > > Varney Economy Pacific:http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4312580413/in/set-72157623116890157/ >   > I have this Mantua pre-war Pacific on display, but the paint is very bad and I have been itching to restore it: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5348301544/in/set-72157623238233266 > > There is nothing better than a good patina on a vintage piece, but for > me it has to be displayable as is. I think a good patina on a well preserved and painted piece helps the value, but bad paint on an engine like the one just above, hurts it. > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: nico <trainguru@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 1:09 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Berkshire Restoration Project > > >   > Why did you strip the paint off the o'l girl? Sure the T&P never had a berkshire, but does that really matter? I'd love to get my hands on one of those jems! > What do you have for sale (maybe even the berk?)? I may be interested, if only the price is right (no joke intended!).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19733	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]

Jim,   They all look just fine to me. This is another example of how some people do something different than others and all get great results. After your experiences with rattle cans ain’t no one that can claim it can’t be done. The best way? It always and always will be whatever works best for you.   Regards the three photos you used I recognized the Varney 2-8-0 right off the bat but needed to read the label for the Winton Berkshire.  First photo I’ve seen of a completed model and it looks very nice indeed. And that Penn Line/Mantua/Brass “one of a Kind” I’ve never seen before and looks superb. Lots of added detail on that one by the looks of it. I’d be interested in knowing more about it.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:44 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Sending these pictures just to show some of the Engines I sprayed using Testor's spray cans. The spoked drivers were painted with the drivers in the frame. All 3 had the valve gear and rods spray painted and none, even others not shown, ever had a binding problem. All had the drivers cleaned with an Exacto knife carefully where the drivers ride the rail. I hand push the frames back and forth on track to make sure nothing binding. No oil yet. I then put the motors in and run the engines forward and reverse and clean the drivers with fine Emory cloth for better electrical pick up. No oil yet and put on shelf with no oil till I intend to run an engine long term. Like I said no binding and I like how Testor's paint ages to dull the flat color more. Jim H all

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19734	From: Nelson	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]

Ditto, Jim. I've been watching your progress with great interest, just haven't been commenting. I guess there's a lot of that going around. ;) I'm sure the original scratchbuilder of this loco would be happy and proud to see what you've done with it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > > > Your projects are anything but boring. Whenever you're working on one I am > always anxious to see your next installment as to your progress. As the > saying goes, "You da man!" > > > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19735	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19736	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs [3 Attachments]

Jim. Thanks -- as always -- for sending the pics of these 3 engines you've spray painted using Testors spray cans. As for my account, you needn't have mentioned again that you've never had a binding problem when spraying the valve gear and the rods, as I already knew that as soon as reading your first post. Just want to assure you that my post stating that it wouldn't have been my choice to spray paint the valve gear only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints, was in no way meant as a put down to your method -- which I trust you already know -- although I should have followed that with what I was also thinking at that very time, and that would have been -- I would have been afraid of gumming up the works up until that time when seeing that you've done it with no problems. I had no idea up until reading your account, that it wouldn't cause paint to seep into the joints. So, my fears have been allayed, and thanks for showing that this can surely be done as it makes painting an engine much easier. I was pleasantly surprised when I read your method, that it can successfully be done with no after problems -- saves lots of time and looks good. Good to know too, that as the paint hardens and ages, that it looks even better. I think I'll try that on my next engine build, or rebuild. I'll let you know how it goes. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19737	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

Vic, Thanks for the "recipe" for the locomotive paint. I think I recall something like this from way back; it should look good on the running gear. As I like to experiment over the years, I've come up with a variant of the mix you offer, for use on the boilers, by adding Gun Metal and C&O Enchantment Blue to this mix. It gives a nice blue-black patina, and graphite can still be used on the smoke box if it's preferred. Ray </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19738	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

I've actually done this - air brush, paint while motor is running. Then take a qtip with solvent when the paint is partially dry and remove the spray from the flanges and rail contact surface of the drivers. Comes out very nice. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19739	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs

Long ago I painted several engines using the "air brush with mechanism under power" technique.  No problems other than having to clean off the wheel treads.  On one I used some sort of hobby enamel with a cheap plastic hobby "air brush" with a screwed in little propellant bottle.  I recall that it sprayed you covered a hole with your finger.  A commercial artist I knew took pity on me and gave me a Wold A2 air brush he no longer needed and I got a compressor for it.  (He used a scuba tank for his air brushes - very nice actually - and rather quiet!).  On the next several engines I used Floquil and got very good results (you just have to clean the air brush immediately and fastidiously if using Floquil.)  I think an issue of paint seeping into into anything is unlikely since the spray can be nearly dry when it hits the metal.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rattle Can Paint Jobs   Jim. Thanks -- as always -- for sending the pics of these 3 engines you've spray painted using Testors spray cans. As for my account, you needn't have mentioned again that you've never had a binding problem when spraying the valve gear and the rods, as I already knew that as soon as reading your first post. Just want to assure you that my post stating that it wouldn't have been my choice to spray paint the valve gear only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints, was in no way meant as a put down to your method -- which I trust you already know -- although I should have followed that with what I was also thinking at that very time, and that would have been -- I would have been afraid of gumming up the works up until that time when seeing that you've done it with no problems. I had no idea up until reading your account, that it wouldn't cause paint to seep into the joints. So, my fears have been allayed, and thanks for showing that this can surely be done as it makes painting an engine much easier. I was pleasantly surprised when I read your method, that it can successfully be done with no after problems -- saves lots of time and looks good. Good to know too, that as the paint hardens and ages, that it looks even better. I think I'll try that on my next engine build, or rebuild. I'll let you know how it goes. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19740	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific

I did it by powering with clip leads and holding the mechanism in the air whilst things were twirling about.  This gave me very good control over changing spray angles and also made it easy to see what I was doing.   Chuck Kinzer.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Waterman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 6:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Painting My Rebuilt Pacific   I've actually done this - air brush, paint while motor is running. Then take a qtip with solvent when the paint is partially dry and remove the spray from the flanges and rail contact surface of the drivers. Comes out very nice. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19741	From: David J. Starr	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs

Rattle cans work for me.  I use auto parts store cans of dark grey auto primer.  The grey looks better than engine black, especially under layout lighting.  Being made for auto mechanics who need it to stick to somewhat greasy auto parts, it has the best "stick-to-metal" chemistry known to man.  Plus it covers everything and is truly dead flat, not a hint of gloss.  It also takes decals well.  These three examples were painted "apart", the boiler assembly was removed and spray painted.  I leave the rods and valve gear bright, and on these three used locomotives, the frames were painted well enough coming out of the factory or from the previous owner.  http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_1458.jpg http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_1477.jpg http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_1601.jpg -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com On 7/4/2012 5:08 AM, erieberk@... wrote: Jim. Thanks -- as always -- for sending the pics of these 3 engines you've spray painted using Testors spray cans. As for my account, you needn't have mentioned again that you've never had a binding problem when spraying the valve gear and the rods, as I already knew that as soon as reading your first post. Just want to assure you that my post stating that it wouldn't have been my choice to spray paint the valve gear only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints, was in no way meant as a put down to your method -- which I trust you already know -- although I should have followed that with what I was also thinking at that very time, and that would have been -- I would have been afraid of gumming up the works up until that time when seeing that you've done it with no problems. I had no idea up until reading your account, that it wouldn't cause paint to seep into the joints. So, my fears have been allayed, and thanks for showing that this can surely be done as it makes painting an engine much easier. I was pleasantly surprised when I read your method, that it can successfully be done with no after problems -- saves lots of time and looks good. Good to know too, that as the paint hardens and ages, that it looks even better. I think I'll try that on my next engine build, or rebuild. I'll let you know how it goes. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19742	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Pacific Tender & Trucks Painted

Attachments : IMG_8172.JPG IMG_8169.JPG IMG_8168.JPG I got the tender and the trucks painted with no problems. Have to clean off the tender wheels and where the trucks mount to the body. Coal can now be added. Real Anthracite from around our house cracked by hammer and sized. Still working on the Cab & Boiler. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19743	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs

David,       I looked at the three engine pictures you sent. I can see who your favorite RR is. A nice scheme. Did B&M actually use it? Being a vintage collector I especially like the early Athearn Pacific.                                     Jim H On 7/4/2012 11:36 AM, David J. Starr wrote:   Rattle cans work for me.  I use auto parts store cans of dark grey auto primer.  The grey looks better than engine black, especially under layout lighting.  Being made for auto mechanics who need it to stick to somewhat greasy auto parts, it has the best "stick-to-metal" chemistry known to man.  Plus it covers everything and is truly dead flat, not a hint of gloss.  It also takes decals well.  These three examples were painted "apart", the boiler assembly was removed and spray painted.  I leave the rods and valve gear bright, and on these three used locomotives, the frames were painted well enough coming out of the factory or from the previous owner.  http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_1458.jpg http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_1477.jpg http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_1601.jpg -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com On 7/4/2012 5:08 AM, erieberk@... wrote: Jim. Thanks -- as always -- for sending the pics of these 3 engines you've spray painted using Testors spray cans. As for my account, you needn't have mentioned again that you've never had a binding problem when spraying the valve gear and the rods, as I already knew that as soon as reading your first post. Just want to assure you that my post stating that it wouldn't have been my choice to spray paint the valve gear only as I'd be afraid of paint seeping into the riveted joints, was in no way meant as a put down to your method -- which I trust you already know -- although I should have followed that with what I was also thinking at that very time, and that would have been -- I would have been afraid of gumming up the works up until that time when seeing that you've done it with no problems. I had no idea up until reading your account, that it wouldn't cause paint to seep into the joints. So, my fears have been allayed, and thanks for showing that this can surely be done as it makes painting an engine much easier. I was pleasantly surprised when I read your method, that it can successfully be done with no after problems -- saves lots of time and looks good. Good to know too, that as the paint hardens and ages, that it looks even better. I think I'll try that on my next engine build, or rebuild. I'll let you know how it goes. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19744	From: David J. Starr	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Rattle Can Paint Jobs

On 7/4/2012 1:23 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:    David,       I looked at the three engine pictures you sent. I can see who your favorite RR is. A nice scheme. Did B&M actually use it? Being a vintage collector I especially like the early Athearn Pacific.                                     Jim H The Speed Lettering scheme on the tender shows up in a good number of photographs in my various RR picture books.  I must admit that I don't remember personally ever seeing it on a working engine.  My clear memories are of the elderly Moguls that pulled my father's commuter train.  They just had a white Minuteman logo on the tender, and sometimes not even that.    The Athearn Pacific came to me  off E-bay a while ago.  I spotted it and decided I had to have it.  It arrived showing a lot of hard wear. The pilot was missing due to a fall to the floor.  I took it all apart, built up a new front end from brass bar stock and a cast brass pilot and air pumps.  It looked pretty good, but I was unable to make it run very well. It made it around the layout a few times but poor pickup due to plastic drivers made it too flaky to put into regular service.  It has a fine place in my display case.      I posted a bunch of photos of the Athearn, before and after, on the MR forum.  The forum search tool ought to turn them up if you are interested. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19745	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: pacific problem

> > > I ran into a problem with the scratch built Pacific > that means I have to go backwards. I had this engine running before I > painted it but after, when I put the motor back on, the screw that > goes through the eccentric had both been soldered. The one soldered > screw came undone that the eccentric was free spinning on the screw. I > tried to fix it without taking it apart and not nicking the paint job > to no avail. I have to take the screws out and put the whole frame > back in brake fluid and strip it entirely. Lovely. Will have to fix > eccentrics and repaint the frame which sets me back a lot. Meanwhile I > will continue to work on the cab / boiler. I don't look forward to > repainting the frame, drivers and valve gear again but I am going to > try something so I don't have to scrap paint off the drivers. I'm > going to use some narrow tape or pin stripping from car details. After > painted I'll just take the tape of the drivers. If it doesn't work > I'll be painting the whole frame a third time. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19746	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Varney Pre-War Pacific

Attachments : Pre Pre-19746 Hey guys! Hope everyone had an exciting / restful / eventful / safe..or any combination of which... Independence day national holiday! I acquired a pre-war Varney Pacific in kit form and I was wondering if I actually had the original box here or what? It looks to me like it might be, but since it pre-dates me by about 30 years, I have no way to be sure.. Please see the attached photos: Thanks in advance! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19747	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Varney Pre war Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8181.JPG IMG_8180.JPG IMG_8178.JPG Sean, These pictures are from the box my pre war Varney Pacific came in. The writing inside didn't show up to good so I'll try to tell you what it says January 6th, 1937 Commander Brayton Braur ? Naval Proving Grounds, Some town in Virginia I can't make out. Engine & Tender $38.00. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19748	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Pre war Pacific [3 Attachments]

That would be Dahlgren, Virginia, down the Potomac from Washington DC.  This is now the Naval Surface Warfare Center.  During World War II then CPT Boynton L. Braun commanded the escort carrier USS Manila Bay and the light carier USS Bennington. John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 3:01:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Pre war Pacific [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Sean, These pictures are from the box my pre war Varney Pacific came in. The writing inside didn't show up to good so I'll try to tell you what it says January 6th, 1937 Commander Brayton Braur ? Naval Proving Grounds, Some town in Virginia I can't make out. Engine & Tender $38.00. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19749	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: Varney Pre war Pacific

Thanks John for the interpretation of the hieroglyphics. The original owner had a fancy way of writing especially Capitals and it's very light. On 7/5/2012 4:41 PM, john.allyn@... wrote:   That would be Dahlgren, Virginia, down the Potomac from Washington DC.  This is now the Naval Surface Warfare Center.  During World War II then CPT Boynton L. Braun commanded the escort carrier USS Manila Bay and the light carier USS Bennington. John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 3:01:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Pre war Pacific [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Sean, These pictures are from the box my pre war Varney Pacific came in. The writing inside didn't show up to good so I'll try to tell you what it says January 6th, 1937 Commander Brayton Braur ? Naval Proving Grounds, Some town in Virginia I can't make out. Engine & Tender $38.00. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19750	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Pacific Cab Boiler

Attachments : IMG_8192.JPG IMG_8191.JPG IMG_8188.JPG Boy does brake fluid clean fresh paint quick. I have my frame all cleaned to try again. I'm going to try to use Mantua parts, spacer and long screw on both sides so I can tighten the eccentrics instead of soldering. I will do this before I paint it again. Meanwhile I will keep working on the cab / boiler. I got the cab epoxied and smoothed where it had been all bent up and partly off. I'm trying to clean as much patina off before I paint the boiler. I have never used a undercoating. Just sprayed paint from a can and never had one peel and I've shown some that are over 25+ years but I have never painted over the patina and a lot of solder. I'm afraid if I don't it won't hold. Along with taping over the driver part that rides the rails I will be entering new territory from what I have always done before. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19751	From: John H	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Help with crane ID

Group, I just received this crane, eBay item 200781804946 (check auction for photos) and I have no idea who built or imported it. It is metal but I'm not sure what kind of metal as the paint is very good without any chips. There are no winches, the various cable are simply tied off in some unnoticeable place. I purchased this item as I found it while looking for a diecast Athearn crane to replace the one I had years ago (I've since found one that is in the mail). The reason I wanted a metal Athearn is the added heft to the boom and the much more realistic appearance of the multiple pulleys for the boom cables as compared to the single pulleys on the plastic models. Anyway I saw this and put in a bid I could afford and won it. I believe it may be an import as it has what I believe to be the Japanese version of the Baker couplers. It is very nicely detailed with all free standing grab irons and steps, etc. They look to be wire but not even sure of that but none are cast on as part of the surface. Speaking of even, the paint is very evenly applied. The only problem I see is the B&O decals that were applied without setting solution or many overcoat. That is actually good as I doubt I'll leave it as B&O albeit that is one of my favorite roads. The lack of ability to easily adjust the height of boom or either hook is of minor concern as cranes are generally used as scenic details anyway. I have not been able to find any identifying markings so if you can help..... Thanks, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19752	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID

Hello John, I believe you made a stunning purchase! It looks to be a Tenshodo brass 200 ton brownhoist crane to me. Her eis mine for comparison. Sorry the photos are bad as they are the listing photos from ~5 years ago. i have not done anything with mine as of yet. TENSHODO BRASS 200 TON...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 11:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID   Group, I just received this crane, eBay item 200781804946 (check auction for photos) and I have no idea who built or imported it. It is metal but I'm not sure what kind of metal as the paint is very good without any chips. There are no winches, the various cable are simply tied off in some unnoticeable place. I purchased this item as I found it while looking for a diecast Athearn crane to replace the one I had years ago (I've since found one that is in the mail). The reason I wanted a metal Athearn is the added heft to the boom and the much more realistic appearance of the multiple pulleys for the boom cables as compared to the single pulleys on the plastic models. Anyway I saw this and put in a bid I could afford and won it. I believe it may be an import as it has what I believe to be the Japanese version of the Baker couplers. It is very nicely detailed with all free standing grab irons and steps, etc. They look to be wire but not even sure of that but none are cast on as part of the surface. Speaking of even, the paint is very evenly applied. The only problem I see is the B&O decals that were applied without setting solution or many overcoat. That is actually good as I doubt I'll leave it as B&O albeit that is one of my favorite roads. The lack of ability to easily adjust the height of boom or either hook is of minor concern as cranes are generally used as scenic details anyway. I have not been able to find any identifying markings so if you can help..... Thanks, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19753	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID

Sean,   Thank you. Yes that is definitely the model I have.   When I first saw the auction I was thinking maybe a Red Ball as I haven’t seen any decent photos of a built up one. Never even thought about brass. Until I opened the box this morning. Then I was too enthused to even think I hit that good a deal. But after looking it over everything was just too nice to be diecast. The box it came in is a deep blue with a silver cover so it could be a Tenshodo box but there are no labels anywhere nor does it look like there ever was. That said I have seen boxes where the label adhesive dried up and the label just fell of leaving no traces.   This one must have been in the box or displayed in something like an enclosed display case as there are no nicks to the paint and even very little in the way of dust. There is no way it was displayed in the open and it has suffered exceptionally little handling.   Thanks again Sean.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 11:13 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID     Hello John,   I believe you made a stunning purchase!   It looks to be a Tenshodo brass 200 ton brownhoist crane to me. Her eis mine for comparison. Sorry the photos are bad as they are the listing photos from ~5 years ago. i have not done anything with mine as of yet.   TENSHODO BRASS 200 TON...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 11:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID     Group, I just received this crane, eBay item 200781804946 (check auction for photos) and I have no idea who built or imported it. It is metal but I'm not sure what kind of metal as the paint is very good without any chips. There are no winches, the various cable are simply tied off in some unnoticeable place. I purchased this item as I found it while looking for a diecast Athearn crane to replace the one I had years ago (I've since found one that is in the mail). The reason I wanted a metal Athearn is the added heft to the boom and the much more realistic appearance of the multiple pulleys for the boom cables as compared to the single pulleys on the plastic models. Anyway I saw this and put in a bid I could afford and won it. I believe it may be an import as it has what I believe to be the Japanese version of the Baker couplers. It is very nicely detailed with all free standing grab irons and steps, etc. They look to be wire but not even sure of that but none are cast on as part of the surface. Speaking of even, the paint is very evenly applied. The only problem I see is the B&O decals that were applied without setting solution or many overcoat. That is actually good as I doubt I'll leave it as B&O albeit that is one of my favorite roads. The lack of ability to easily adjust the height of boom or either hook is of minor concern as cranes are generally used as scenic details anyway. I have not been able to find any identifying markings so if you can help..... Thanks, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19754	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID

Well, checking the under “Completed Sales” on eBay for brass HO cranes I found auction # 251094155159 for a Tenshodo 200 ton Brownhoist Carne with f/p. And the decals are applied just like mine.   So now I know those B&O decals are factory applied and I have the original box albeit with no packing. So I guess I’ll leave the B&O decals. Like I said, B&O is one of my favorites. #3 in fact as it goes GB&W, C&NW and B&O.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19755	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID

John! I would have never guessed at a $300 BIN selling price from a buyer with 33,300+ transactions. wow! to both the price and that many transactions for such a high selling price.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID   Well, checking the under “Completed Sales” on eBay for brass HO cranes I found auction # 251094155159 for a Tenshodo 200 ton Brownhoist Carne with f/p. And the decals are applied just like mine.   So now I know those B&O decals are factory applied and I have the original box albeit with no packing. So I guess I’ll leave the B&O decals. Like I said, B&O is one of my favorites. #3 in fact as it goes GB&W, C&NW and B&O.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19756	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID

Sean’   Is there any way to tell how long it was up before it was bought?   Yes I agree that is a high BIN price. Other than the missing label this crane is absolutely mint. So should I decide (or my heirs) to sell it I should be pretty well assured of getting close to ten times what I paid. That kind of profit is something to chew on. I just may decide to flip it in three or four months down the road. I buy models I like and want to keep. I’m not into flipping but geez…….   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 12:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID     John!   I would have never guessed at a $300 BIN selling price from a buyer with 33,300+ transactions. wow! to both the price and that many transactions for such a high selling price.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID     Well, checking the under “Completed Sales” on eBay for brass HO cranes I found auction # 251094155159 for a Tenshodo 200 ton Brownhoist Carne with f/p. And the decals are applied just like mine.   So now I know those B&O decals are factory applied and I have the original box albeit with no packing. So I guess I’ll leave the B&O decals. Like I said, B&O is one of my favorites. #3 in fact as it goes GB&W, C&NW and B&O.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19757	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Pre vs Post War Varney brass/bronze streamlined Hudson / Pacific dif

Jim, I see now.. we both must have mis-understood each other (or I remembered incorrectly). I had up until this new acquisition, one bronze and two brass shell hudsons/ pacifics. The bronze one is clearly bronze and not a patina on the metal as I polished both to a nice shine. With the one I just purchased, I now have two bronze boilers. The external details are nearly identical as any differences are subtle, but there are differences. The main differences are on the underside though, but it is definitely all Varney and not a reproduction of any sort.  Now that I have two that I believe are Bronze and not brass, it just makes me think the Brass version is the post-war version. See the following pics: Bronze: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6444837639/in/set-72157630332982578/ Differences as seen in these photos: Bronze: Firebox molded on rivet detail inside cab: full backhead present - can not see deep inside boiler marker lights - flush mount die-cast markers I think I placed the brass chassis under this one as it did not have a chassis when I purchased it.  Brass: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6444838713/in/set-72157630332982578/ Brass; Smooth firebox - NO molded on rivet detail no backhead inside cab - can see straight through into inside of boiler from back of cab upper side marker lights are pre-cast into boiler This one I purchased with a brass chassis.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19758	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: Help with crane ID

John, I have no real idea. I would suspect ~$150 is a more reasonable price to expect for that piece, however I have nothing really to go on. You just do not see pieces like that with the original box and in that good of shape too often. I have only really ever seen them without the box. It just may be worth that much.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID   Sean’   Is there any way to tell how long it was up before it was bought?   Yes I agree that is a high BIN price. Other than the missing label this crane is absolutely mint. So should I decide (or my heirs) to sell it I should be pretty well assured of getting close to ten times what I paid. That kind of profit is something to chew on. I just may decide to flip it in three or four months down the road. I buy models I like and want to keep. I’m not into flipping but geez…….   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 12:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID     John!   I would have never guessed at a $300 BIN selling price from a buyer with 33,300+ transactions. wow! to both the price and that many transactions for such a high selling price.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Help with crane ID     Well, checking the under “Completed Sales” on eBay for brass HO cranes I found auction # 251094155159 for a Tenshodo 200 ton Brownhoist Carne with f/p. And the decals are applied just like mine.   So now I know those B&O decals are factory applied and I have the original box albeit with no packing. So I guess I’ll leave the B&O decals. Like I said, B&O is one of my favorites. #3 in fact as it goes GB&W, C&NW and B&O.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19760	From: Chris B	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

[Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Hi group, I just received this lot I won last weekend of brass Mantua cars, and a tender and Shifter shell.  I'm familiar with the gondolas and one of the tank cars, but the other tank car is 100% brass and is the main reason I tried to win the lot.  I'm speculating that it's a pre-war Mantua  all-brass tank car, but I would appreciate hearing from any of the vintage Mantua experts in the group. HO Brass Mantua Loco and Freight Car Kits This goes back a few years!!! Returns: Not accepted 1 bid $ Time left: 4d 17h 16m http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item41677b1877&item=280908994679&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=8lyz%252FnSq7g6Sp5Cbn%252FybnWhflx4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Attachment(s) from Chris B 1 of 1 Photo(s) brass tank car.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19761	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

Hi Chris, I was watching it too and forgot yo bid myself. It is NOT a mantua loco. I thinbk it is either a Tenshodo or a Ken Kidder import.  Definitely NOT Mantua.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car   [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Hi group, I just received this lot I won last weekend of brass Mantua cars, and a tender and Shifter shell.  I'm familiar with the gondolas and one of the tank cars, but the other tank car is 100% brass and is the main reason I tried to win the lot.  I'm speculating that it's a pre-war Mantua  all-brass tank car, but I would appreciate hearing from any of the vintage Mantua experts in the group. HO Brass Mantua Loco and Freight Car Kits This goes back a few years!!! Returns: Not accepted 1 bid $ Time left: 4d 17h 16m http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item41677b1877&item=280908994679&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=8lyz%252FnSq7g6Sp5Cbn%252FybnWhflx4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Attachment(s) from Chris B 1 of 1 Photo(s) brass tank car.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19762	From: Chris B	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

ok. but myquestionis about tne all brasstankcar? Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...>; To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 7:57:01 PM   Hi Chris, I was watching it too and forgot yo bid myself. It is NOT a mantua loco. I thinbk it is either a Tenshodo or a Ken Kidder import.  Definitely NOT Mantua.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car   [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Hi group, I just received this lot I won last weekend of brass Mantua cars, and a tender and Shifter shell.  I'm familiar with the gondolas and one of the tank cars, but the other tank car is 100% brass and is the main reason I tried to win the lot.  I'm speculating that it's a pre-war Mantua  all-brass tank car, but I would appreciate hearing from any of the vintage Mantua experts in the group. HO Brass Mantua Loco and Freight Car Kits This goes back a few years!!! Returns: Not accepted 1 bid $ Time left: 4d 17h 16m http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item41677b1877&item=280908994679&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=8lyz%252FnSq7g6Sp5Cbn%252FybnWhflx4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Attachment(s) from Chris B 1 of 1 Photo(s) brass tank car.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19763	From: jay matz	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

Chris The tank car is International late 40s early 50s. Jay From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car   [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Hi group, I just received this lot I won last weekend of brass Mantua cars, and a tender and Shifter shell.  I'm familiar with the gondolas and one of the tank cars, but the other tank car is 100% brass and is the main reason I tried to win the lot.  I'm speculating that it's a pre-war Mantua  all-brass tank car, but I would appreciate hearing from any of the vintage Mantua experts in the group. HO Brass Mantua Loco and Freight Car Kits This goes back a few years!!! Returns: Not accepted 1 bid $ Time left: 4d 17h 16m http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item41677b1877&item=280908994679&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=8lyz%252FnSq7g6Sp5Cbn%252FybnWhflx4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Attachment(s) from Chris B 1 of 1 Photo(s) brass tank car.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19764	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Re: brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

Or some other early Japanese import.  A Mantua car would have a card overlay rather than rivets embossed on brass. John B. Allyn From: "jay matz" <dlw455@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 3:16:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car   Chris The tank car is International late 40s early 50s. Jay From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car   [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Hi group, I just received this lot I won last weekend of brass Mantua cars, and a tender and Shifter shell.  I'm familiar with the gondolas and one of the tank cars, but the other tank car is 100% brass and is the main reason I tried to win the lot.  I'm speculating that it's a pre-war Mantua  all-brass tank car, but I would appreciate hearing from any of the vintage Mantua experts in the group. HO Brass Mantua Loco and Freight Car Kits This goes back a few years!!! Returns: Not accepted 1 bid $ Time left: 4d 17h 16m http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item41677b1877&item=280908994679&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=8lyz%252FnSq7g6Sp5Cbn%252FybnWhflx4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Attachment(s) from Chris B 1 of 1 Photo(s) brass tank car.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19765	From: Chris B	Date: 7/7/2012
Subject: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...>; To: dlw455@... <dlw455@...>; Subject: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 10:04:38 PM Jay, thanks much for the ID. I've got a growing collection of Intl unpainted brass stock cars, hoppers and gondolas for my vintage W&OD HO roster, and I'm always seeking more; so for me that's good news. Chris B. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: jay matz <dlw455@...>; To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 8:16:31 PM   Chris The tank car is International late 40s early 50s. Jay From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car   [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Hi group, I just received this lot I won last weekend of brass Mantua cars, and a tender and Shifter shell.  I'm familiar with the gondolas and one of the tank cars, but the other tank car is 100% brass and is the main reason I tried to win the lot.  I'm speculating that it's a pre-war Mantua  all-brass tank car, but I would appreciate hearing from any of the vintage Mantua experts in the group. HO Brass Mantua Loco and Freight Car Kits This goes back a few years!!! Returns: Not accepted 1 bid $ Time left: 4d 17h 16m http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item41677b1877&item=280908994679&nma=true&pt=Model_RR_Trains&rt=nc&si=8lyz%252FnSq7g6Sp5Cbn%252FybnWhflx4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Attachment(s) from Chris B 1 of 1 Photo(s) brass tank car.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19766	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Project back on track

> > > After just painting the frame, drivers and valve gear on > the scratch built Pacific I bought the first time one of the soldered > return cranks came loose. I tried to clean the paint around it but > couldn't get it to re solder. I took the whole piece and put it in > brake fluid to strip the paint off again. At least it came off easy > being so newly painted. When cleaned I changed both sides using Mantua > spacers that fit between the side rods and main rods and the long bolt > that I could lock down the eccentrics. Repainted the whole thing , > cleaned the drivers off, made sure while paint new that all worked > freely. I pushed it up and down my test track 50 times or more to help > wear in so when the paint fully cures there would be no binding. I'm > putting on the side for a week while I work on cleaning the boiler. I > lost 5 days but we are back to where I was. I'm a little tired of > working on same project so after I get the boiler /cab cleaned ( heavy > patina that I don't know if the paint will hold on it ) and lots of > places solder has to be filed/sanded off I will put this project on > the side and work on another engine sitting on the bench. Yes I will > get back to this Pacific project soon. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19767	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Mantua Pacific Question

A friend recently picked up an old Mantua Pacific, missing about a ton of parts. My belief is that the seller didn't know what it was or what went with it. Came with a real nice set of Baker Valve gear(Kemtron?) and a spare frame and one pair of drivers for some 8-coupled engine, apparently also Mantua. Extra "unknown" five-pole motor, too....   It's early enough to have a "gear box" rather than open gears.   No pilot truck, no wheels for the trailing truck, no tender trucks(which I was lucky enough to have and give him), no cab(he has made a rather nice scratch-built one, though). It was also missing the rear bearing for the gear shaft, but my friend is clever and made a perfectly-fitting shaft that doesn't require that bearing. Oh yeah, no proper valve gear or rods, either...not to mention steps for the pilot handrails, stanchions, etc.   The question: Is there any near protoype for this locomotive?   Thanks in advance!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19768	From: David J. Starr	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question

On 7/8/2012 3:19 PM, Fred Hultberg wrote: A friend recently picked up an old Mantua Pacific, missing about a ton of parts. My belief is that the seller didn't know what it was or what went with it. Came with a real nice set of Baker Valve gear(Kemtron?) and a spare frame and one pair of drivers for some 8-coupled engine, apparently also Mantua. Extra "unknown" five-pole motor, too....   It's early enough to have a "gear box" rather than open gears.   No pilot truck, no wheels for the trailing truck, no tender trucks(which I was lucky enough to have and give him), no cab(he has made a rather nice scratch-built one, though). It was also missing the rear bearing for the gear shaft, but my friend is clever and made a perfectly-fitting shaft that doesn't require that bearing. Oh yeah, no proper valve gear or rods, either...not to mention steps for the pilot handrails, stanchions, etc.   The question: Is there any near protoype for this locomotive?   Thanks in advance!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) I'm told that Mantua followed the B&O "President" class for the Pacific..  I'm not enough of a B&O guru to know one way or the other.  In major dimensions (length, height,width) it is a close match (like within an inch or two) to the Lima built Boston & Maine class P-4.   I did some detailing to it and came out with a decent (not completely there, but decent) P-4.     I assume you put your friend in touch with Yardbirds.  -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19769	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question

The B&O P7’s (President pacific’s) went through an lot of variations through their lives but if you find the right photo of the right locomotive taken at the right time it will be very close to the Mantua Pacific right down to the covers over the sanding valves, Boxpox drivers  and the tender. The biggest differences include the solid block that represents the pilot mounted air compressors, their shields and the radiator between the shields, the shape of the cab roof and the general simplification of details. With a little added detail it can make a decent P7.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David J. Starr Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 2:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Pacific Question     On 7/8/2012 3:19 PM, Fred Hultberg wrote: A friend recently picked up an old Mantua Pacific, missing about a ton of parts. My belief is that the seller didn't know what it was or what went with it. Came with a real nice set of Baker Valve gear(Kemtron?) and a spare frame and one pair of drivers for some 8-coupled engine, apparently also Mantua. Extra "unknown" five-pole motor, too....   It's early enough to have a "gear box" rather than open gears.   No pilot truck, no wheels for the trailing truck, no tender trucks(which I was lucky enough to have and give him), no cab(he has made a rather nice scratch-built one, though). It was also missing the rear bearing for the gear shaft, but my friend is clever and made a perfectly-fitting shaft that doesn't require that bearing. Oh yeah, no proper valve gear or rods, either...not to mention steps for the pilot handrails, stanchions, etc.   The question: Is there any near protoype for this locomotive?   Thanks in advance!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) I'm told that Mantua followed the B&O "President" class for the Pacific..  I'm not enough of a B&O guru to know one way or the other.  In major dimensions (length, height,width) it is a close match (like within an inch or two) to the Lima built Boston & Maine class P-4.   I did some detailing to it and came out with a decent (not completely there, but decent) P-4.     I assume you put your friend in touch with Yardbirds.  -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19770	From: hooligan	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question

Howdy guys ! I love my B&O P7s ! The photo John H. mentioned is to be found in "B&O Power" by Al Stuaffer . The photo JH refers to is dated 1947 the year that they were rebuilt by their Mt.Claire shops . Some royal Blue paint , Cal Scale details and you have it . Go to North East Rails , B&O / steam / class P . Or Geo. Elwood's site , Fallenflags.org ? Tons of variations to chose from ! Good luck ! Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > > A friend recently picked up an old Mantua Pacific, missing about a ton of parts. My belief is that the seller didn't know what it was or what went with it. Came with a real nice set of Baker Valve gear(Kemtron?) and a spare frame and one pair of drivers for some 8-coupled engine, apparently also Mantua. Extra "unknown" five-pole motor, too.... >   > It's early enough to have a "gear box" rather than open gears. >   > No pilot truck, no wheels for the trailing truck, no tender trucks(which I was lucky enough to have and give him), no cab(he has made a rather nice scratch-built one, though). It was also missing the rear bearing for the gear shaft, but my friend is clever and made a perfectly-fitting shaft that doesn't require that bearing. Oh yeah, no proper valve gear or rods, either...not to mention steps for the pilot handrails, stanchions, etc. >   > The question: Is there any near protoype for this locomotive? >   > Thanks in advance! >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19771	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

The all brass tank car, completely assembled with frame (less trucks) may be an International, but the tank car without the frame and having zamak ends and dome looks to be a Mantua without the wrapper. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19772	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific Question

Hi All, Easy place to find P7 photos is the B&O Historical Society. The Mantua model is a very good representation of 5314 &15. The historical site also has a publicity picture that looks like they used the Mantua model to create. Addition of the rods for the forward throttle turns the Mantua into a good representation. Late photos of the 15 show her pullling a string of heavyweights and she has a solid pilot. The Mantua model is an ideal start for a super detailed model and since the P7s went through so manyvariations over the years, mix and match is fine. 5314 & 15 at least, wore at least 3 different paint schemes in their lifetime. The pilot shield is a good representation when the B&O shield is added to the center and can be easily converted to the solid pilot using a plastic epoxy filler. The gear box drive was an early production run and was re-run in later years. It included a large openframe Mantua motor - (MGsomething as I recall). Model power has some of the parts available for these models. At one time they were fitted with a Sagami can motor as an option and retro fit kits were available for both the can motor and the big open frame with gear box. Mellor made a simplified gear box for the mantua drives, part "#420 - Worm drive". The worm drive could be used on most Mantua locos and allowed an easy conversion to the motor of your choice using a flex shaft or U-joint shaft. Model Power is having some trouble getting all of the parts back into production but they are still working at it. The Pacific is in production with an updated drive. A plus on these locos - Mantua designed them to handle a 14" radius right from the git-go. The first runs were completely diecast and the tender had no coal load. If I remember right Jim has several examples of the early Mantua locos and tenders. On my units with the gear box, the bearings are a match for the Athearn sideframe mounted axle bearing. Wheels for the trailing truck are available from NWSL. I hope your friend enjoys his find. I love mine, all of them! Right now I am making up a pilot using the deck shield and ladders from the original pilot and a cow catcher from CalScale that I had laying around. Selly (Bowser) also had some pilot step ladders available at one time. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 7/8/12, hooligan <long95209@...> wrote: > Howdy guys ! I love my B&O P7s ! The photo John H. mentioned is to be found > in "B&O Power" by Al Stuaffer . The photo JH refers to is dated 1947 the > year that they were rebuilt by their Mt.Claire shops . Some royal Blue paint > , Cal Scale details and you have it . Go to North East Rails , B&O / steam / > class P . Or Geo. Elwood's site , Fallenflags.org ? Tons of variations to > chose from ! Good luck ! Henry H. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: >> >> A friend recently picked up an old Mantua Pacific, missing about a ton of >> parts. My belief is that the seller didn't know what it was or what went >> with it. Came with a real nice set of Baker Valve gear(Kemtron?) and a >> spare frame and one pair of drivers for some 8-coupled engine, apparently >> also Mantua. Extra "unknown" five-pole motor, too.... >> >> It's early enough to have a "gear box" rather than open gears. >> >> No pilot truck, no wheels for the trailing truck, no tender trucks(which I >> was lucky enough to have and give him), no cab(he has made a rather nice >> scratch-built one, though). It was also missing the rear bearing for the >> gear shaft, but my friend is clever and made a perfectly-fitting shaft >> that doesn't require that bearing. Oh yeah, no proper valve gear or rods, >> either...not to mention steps for the pilot handrails, stanchions, etc. >> >> The question: Is there any near protoype for this locomotive? >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19773	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass mantu

Attachments : W&OD Rosslyn Branch.jpg W&OD oddball prototypes to be scratchbuilt as brass HO models.jpg total layout area is 24' wide and 24'deep with three decks and 4% grades, per the prototype.jpg Suydam PE BW =W&OD #50.jpg Suydam CNS&M = W&OD #76 & #43.jpg Jay, thanks, I think so too, and the two gondolas as well.  I have some other Mantua tank cars, also without wrappers, some with brass tanks, and some with steel. I am also curious about the tender, any ID info? The lot also came with multiple trucks, and some Mantua couplers in original packaging.  I have accumulated a number of the brass Mantua gondolas complete with paper sides, and few other similar era Mantua hoppers and other cars, along with multiple die-cast Binkley, Ulrich, and unknown make cars. I am always interested in any vintage HO brass International freight cars, especially hoppers & gondolas, to make up appropriate late 40's/early 50's era trains for my under-construction vintage HO W&OD layout that features all unpainted brass engines and no scenery but finished hardwood decks with vintage Tenshodo hardwood track. I've posted photos of the layout benchwork construction in the past, and of the motive power roster, but this effort to collect a substantial number of the brass international freight cars is the latest addition to the plan, and I've attached some photos to this email to show them with the brass engines on the Tenshodo track, so you can see what I hope to achieve for the look of the whole 3 deck layout. I've also got a small collection of unpainted MEW 44T, IVERS 70T, and CARY S-2 die-cast switcher shells that may someday get mated with the unpainted die cast cars to run someday on my layout, should I ever get all the brass models done for the WWII era W&OD roster. I was collecting these when my original plan to run all metal engines and cars shifted to brass, since while I could model the 1950's W&OD roster in die-cast, the 1940's era diesels, gas-electrics, and traction engines and cars were only available in brass; and eventually I realized I would need brass freight cars to go with them, but there was no way I was ever going to want or be able to afford a full roster of modern-era brass model cars; especially since the tarnished older cars looked so much like the b&w photos of the original prototype cars, all beat up and weathered. What I like is that I'm modeling an era with models and trackage that was manufactured during or just after the era that I'm modeling. There's not that much interest in the International brass cars, either in the brass collector world, or the vintage  HO world, but I'm slowly accumulating a decent collection, some with boxes, some painted, and I'd eventually like to fill the layout with them. The level of detail on them is appropriate to my purpose, they represent the shorter simple freight cars of tht era, and in some cases, the severely tarnished cars look more realistic and weather beaten than any simulation I could accomplish. Some of the engines, trolleys, and gas electrics I have are mildly tarnished, and I like that look for the same reason, but I especially like the look of a mildly tarnished NJCB 44T switcher pulling a string of Intl natural brass freight cars, all with wildly different levels of tarnish, looking to me just like the real thing in their variety. I hope it's ok to say I'd be glad to correspond offline with any members with any painted or unpainted early vintage HO brass cars that they would like to sell, or to trade for any of the vintage HO painted die-cast equipment I have accumulated in past years.  Any condition of paint is fine, I'll strip them, no box is fine, the more tarnished and/or beatup the better, no trucks or couplers is fine too, and I'll pay top $ for natural brass hoppers and gondolas especially! Chris B. From: "erieberk@..." <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 11:34 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car The all brass tank car, completely assembled with frame (less trucks) may be an International, but the tank car without the frame and having zamak ends and dome looks to be a Mantua without the wrapper. Ray F.W.</HTML>

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19774	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass m

Hi Chris, The name is Ray (not Jay), but that's alright; others on here make the same mistake < g >. Yes, the brass gondolas are also Mantua without the cardboard sides. In formed brass H0 freight cars, International made a 32' peaked-end twin ribbed hopper, a 40' X-29 box car, a 40' stock car, a 40 Ton flat car, a one dome tank, a two dome tank, a 40' auto box and a GS (General Service) Gondola. The tender looks to be formed brass but looks like no manufacturer I'm familiar with. Ray F. Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19775	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass M

Chris,   That certainly is a great collection you have of early brass. All the small diesels, electrics and trolley’s are super nice. I have just recently acquired a couple of vintage brass pieces myself. An unpainted  Red Ball Trainmaster and a factory painted Tenshodo 200 ton Industrial Brownhoist wrecking crane that is in near mint condition complete with the Tenshodo version of the Baker couplers (This carne was discussed here with Sean Naylor just a few days ago. It has factory applied B&O X-45 decals on it. I got by accident, never imagining it was a brass model. Now since I have found out it is in absolutely original condition with the original box I have decided I have to sell it. I was going to remove the decals and raise up the boom so it could be staged with a crane tool car. But if change anything I’ll destroy much of its value. And I am not into collecting just for the sake of collecting. Nothing wrong with that just not my bag. The Trainmaster needs a truck mounting screw only then it too will be mint. Dunno what I’ll do with that piece. Originally I was going to paint and decal it per one of its prototype but when I’ll get the time……..   Generally I mess with diecast and I have some sort of perverse love affair with Mantua models. That said I’ll modify new stuff if needed to get a model of a GB&W steam engine. And I just won a Mantua 4-4-2 on eBay for little money as the stack, dome(s) and other items are missing. But it isn’t a Pennsy or GN model with their Belpaire fire boxes so I can use it make a CNW class D Atlantic. Someday….   Anyway you have a very interesting collection and a good plan for your layout. Back maybe in the 70’s MR published an article on the “Undec” railroad. Your WO&D definitely reminds me of it.   Could you supply a little more information about the Ivers 70 ton loco? Is this by any chance a diecast body kit? I also acquired a diecast 70 T body kit a while back. It is a flat kit and is very nice model with fine detailing. But I haven’t found anything to tell who made the kit.  I am going to use it to model  Ahnapee & Western’s 600 or 601 using a Bachmann drive.   Thanks for the photo’s and keep us informed.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car [13 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Jay, thanks, I think so too, and the two gondolas as well.  I have some other Mantua tank cars, also without wrappers, some with brass tanks, and some with steel.   I am also curious about the tender, any ID info?   The lot also came with multiple trucks, and some Mantua couplers in original packaging.  I have accumulated a number of the brass Mantua gondolas complete with paper sides, and few other similar era Mantua hoppers and other cars, along with multiple die-cast Binkley, Ulrich, and unknown make cars.     I am always interested in any vintage HO brass International freight cars, especially hoppers & gondolas, to make up appropriate late 40's/early 50's era trains for my under-construction vintage HO W&OD layout that features all unpainted brass engines and no scenery but finished hardwood decks with vintage Tenshodo hardwood track.   I've posted photos of the layout benchwork construction in the past, and of the motive power roster, but this effort to collect a substantial number of the brass international freight cars is the latest addition to the plan, and I've attached some photos to this email to show them with the brass engines on the Tenshodo track, so you can see what I hope to achieve for the look of the whole 3 deck layout.   I've also got a small collection of unpainted MEW 44T, IVERS 70T, and CARY S-2 die-cast switcher shells that may someday get mated with the unpainted die cast cars to run someday on my layout, should I ever get all the brass models done for the WWII era W&OD roster.   I was collecting these when my original plan to run all metal engines and cars shifted to brass, since while I could model the 1950's W&OD roster in die-cast, the 1940's era diesels, gas-electrics, and traction engines and cars were only available in brass; and eventually I realized I would need brass freight cars to go with them,   but there was no way I was ever going to want or be able to afford a full roster of modern-era brass model cars; especially since the tarnished older cars looked so much like the b&w photos of the original prototype cars, all beat up and weathered.   What I like is that I'm modeling an era with models and trackage that was manufactured during or just after the era that I'm modeling.   There's not that much interest in the International brass cars, either in the brass collector world, or the vintage  HO world, but I'm slowly accumulating a decent collection, some with boxes, some painted, and I'd eventually like to fill the layout with them.   The level of detail on them is appropriate to my purpose, they represent the shorter simple freight cars of tht era, and in some cases, the severely tarnished cars look more realistic and weather beaten than any simulation I could accomplish.   Some of the engines, trolleys, and gas electrics I have are mildly tarnished, and I like that look for the same reason, but I especially like the look of a mildly tarnished NJCB 44T switcher pulling a string of Intl natural brass freight cars, all with wildly different levels of tarnish, looking to me just like the real thing in their variety.   I hope it's ok to say I'd be glad to correspond offline with any members with any painted or unpainted early vintage HO brass cars that they would like to sell, or to trade for any of the vintage HO painted die-cast equipment I have accumulated in past years.    Any condition of paint is fine, I'll strip them, no box is fine, the more tarnished and/or beatup the better, no trucks or couplers is fine too, and I'll pay top $ for natural brass hoppers and gondolas especially!   Chris B.     Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: ·         New Members 1 ·         New Photos 10 ·         New Links 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19776	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car

Attachments : WalthersGasElectric kit.jpg Tru scale double turnouts.jpg Tenshodo track-19776.jpg Tenshodo track on luan shelf on layout.jpg MEW 44T.jpg John, I've attached a photo from when I bought my first  complete IVERS diecast kit on ebay, If you need a copy of the instructions I'd be glad to send a scan; I've ended up with 3 unbuilt kits, and one shell I bought on eBay already decorated for the W&OD, that was how I came to know about this kit.   The British MR mags are filled with tips on soldering white metal kits, that was my plan, though I know most US modelers use various cyanoacrylates.  The other diecast shell photos are some examples I also attached a photo of an unbuilt Keystone 44T brass and diecast kit that comes with an NWSL drive; NWSL used to sell the drive separately, and the IVERS kit instructions recommend using one for power, though I've seen them powered also with SPUDS and Bachmann drives.  I also managed to get three of these kits and three separate drives before I switched my plans to brass; I will say the drives for the NJCB 44Ts are worthless, and the Hallmark 70 T drive only marginal, so I'm pretty sure I'll be using all six NWSL drives in the six small switchers that the W&OD ran. I'm also a fan of the vintage HO Tenshodo track, and hope to use it for all the visible sections of the layout, once the trackplan is proven with Atlas code 100 flex track.  It's mostly double track, and the Tru Scale double turnouts are an integral part of that scheme, again I got one of those in a box of track, I'd never seen one, but they work for me in avoiding any return loop wiring issues, and I think they just look cool. I remember the MR article you mentioned, but the inspiration for me came suddenly...I'd originally planned and started towards a traditionally colorful sceniced layout, but once I got some brass and some of the Tenshodo track, and saw how the pictures of them looked when they were placed on an antique wooden desk top, I was hooked.  I've got several wackjob W&OD motive power units to build, and this is a three deck layout intended for operation, so I figured the only way I'd get all the engines and layout built in time to enjoy it while I'm still breathing was to forgo scenery, paint, decals, etc., and just focus on accumulating the roster, bashing what needed bashing to match the prototype, scratchbuild what I had to, and now that I'm getting some car fleets together, someday next year I'll be able to start some rudimentary operations! P.S. now that I've got enough to do all the sections I need,  I can say I've  often wondered why brass collectors didn't use Tenshodo or Tru Scale for display track... Chris B. From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 1:27 PM Subject: RE: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass Mantua lot from eBay with tank car   Chris,   That certainly is a great collection you have of early brass. All the small diesels, electrics and trolley’s are super nice. I have just recently acquired a couple of vintage brass pieces myself. An unpainted  Red Ball Trainmaster and a factory painted Tenshodo 200 ton Industrial Brownhoist wrecking crane that is in near mint condition complete with the Tenshodo version of the Baker couplers (This carne was discussed here with Sean Naylor just a few days ago. It has factory applied B&O X-45 decals on it. I got by accident, never imagining it was a brass model. Now since I have found out it is in absolutely original condition with the original box I have decided I have to sell it. I was going to remove the decals and raise up the boom so it could be staged with a crane tool car. But if change anything I’ll destroy much of its value. And I am not into collecting just for the sake of collecting. Nothing wrong with that just not my bag. The Trainmaster needs a truck mounting screw only then it too will be mint. Dunno what I’ll do with that piece. Originally I was going to paint and decal it per one of its prototype but when I’ll get the time……..   Generally I mess with diecast and I have some sort of perverse love affair with Mantua models. That said I’ll modify new stuff if needed to get a model of a GB&W steam engine. And I just won a Mantua 4-4-2 on eBay for little money as the stack, dome(s) and other items are missing. But it isn’t a Pennsy or GN model with their Belpaire fire boxes so I can use it make a CNW class D Atlantic. Someday….   Anyway you have a very interesting collection and a good plan for your layout. Back maybe in the 70’s MR published an article on the “Undec” railroad. Your WO&D definitely reminds me of it.   Could you supply a little more information about the Ivers 70 ton loco? Is this by any chance a diecast body kit? I also acquired a diecast 70 T body kit a while back. It is a flat kit and is very nice model with fine detailing. But I haven’t found anything to tell who made the kit.  I am going to use it to model  Ahnapee & Western’s 600 or 601 using a Bachmann drive.   Thanks for the photo’s and keep us informed.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car [13 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] Jay, thanks, I think so too, and the two gondolas as well.  I have some other Mantua tank cars, also without wrappers, some with brass tanks, and some with steel.   I am also curious about the tender, any ID info?   The lot also came with multiple trucks, and some Mantua couplers in original packaging.  I have accumulated a number of the brass Mantua gondolas complete with paper sides, and few other similar era Mantua hoppers and other cars, along with multiple die-cast Binkley, Ulrich, and unknown make cars.     I am always interested in any vintage HO brass International freight cars, especially hoppers & gondolas, to make up appropriate late 40's/early 50's era trains for my under-construction vintage HO W&OD layout that features all unpainted brass engines and no scenery but finished hardwood decks with vintage Tenshodo hardwood track.   I've posted photos of the layout benchwork construction in the past, and of the motive power roster, but this effort to collect a substantial number of the brass international freight cars is the latest addition to the plan, and I've attached some photos to this email to show them with the brass engines on the Tenshodo track, so you can see what I hope to achieve for the look of the whole 3 deck layout.   I've also got a small collection of unpainted MEW 44T, IVERS 70T, and CARY S-2 die-cast switcher shells that may someday get mated with the unpainted die cast cars to run someday on my layout, should I ever get all the brass models done for the WWII era W&OD roster.   I was collecting these when my original plan to run all metal engines and cars shifted to brass, since while I could model the 1950's W&OD roster in die-cast, the 1940's era diesels, gas-electrics, and traction engines and cars were only available in brass; and eventually I realized I would need brass freight cars to go with them,   but there was no way I was ever going to want or be able to afford a full roster of modern-era brass model cars; especially since the tarnished older cars looked so much like the b&w photos of the original prototype cars, all beat up and weathered.   What I like is that I'm modeling an era with models and trackage that was manufactured during or just after the era that I'm modeling.   There's not that much interest in the International brass cars, either in the brass collector world, or the vintage  HO world, but I'm slowly accumulating a decent collection, some with boxes, some painted, and I'd eventually like to fill the layout with them.   The level of detail on them is appropriate to my purpose, they represent the shorter simple freight cars of tht era, and in some cases, the severely tarnished cars look more realistic and weather beaten than any simulation I could accomplish.   Some of the engines, trolleys, and gas electrics I have are mildly tarnished, and I like that look for the same reason, but I especially like the look of a mildly tarnished NJCB 44T switcher pulling a string of Intl natural brass freight cars, all with wildly different levels of tarnish, looking to me just like the real thing in their variety.   I hope it's ok to say I'd be glad to correspond offline with any members with any painted or unpainted early vintage HO brass cars that they would like to sell, or to trade for any of the vintage HO painted die-cast equipment I have accumulated in past years.    Any condition of paint is fine, I'll strip them, no box is fine, the more tarnished and/or beatup the better, no trucks or couplers is fine too, and I'll pay top $ for natural brass hoppers and gondolas especially!   Chris B.     Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: ·         New Members 1 ·         New Photos 10 ·         New Links 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19777	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass m

Thanks Ray, I've seen the HOSeeker pages on the Intl freight cars, and I've got multiples of some of the ones on your list, but I'm still looking for more! Chris B. From: "erieberk@..." <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 12:06 PM Subject: Re: ISO Intl brass freight cars, Vintage HO? Was [vintageHO] brass mantua lot...   Hi Chris, The name is Ray (not Jay), but that's alright; others on here make the same mistake < g >. Yes, the brass gondolas are also Mantua without the cardboard sides. In formed brass H0 freight cars, International made a 32' peaked-end twin ribbed hopper, a 40' X-29 box car, a 40' stock car, a 40 Ton flat car, a one dome tank, a two dome tank, a 40' auto box and a GS (General Service) Gondola. The tender looks to be formed brass but looks like no manufacturer I'm familiar with. Ray F. Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19778	From: John Hagen	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass Mantua lot from eBay with tank car [11

Chris,   I’d appreciate very much if you would scan the instructions for the Ivers 70 T kit.   I have done some diecast soldering albeit not for kit assembling. Back when my son and I were selling custom decorated diecast police cars there were a few that wanted “slick” top marked cars. Well since all the police car models came with holes in the roofs for mounting the light bars I would have to plug said holes. Not wanting to use any sort of putty to prevent possible cracking around the outer diameter of the holes I choose to solder them shut. I don’t remember the name of the company that made the solder but it works very well. They also make solder for aluminum and other metals. I’d have to go to my downstairs work station to find the name but won’t get there today.   I failed to mention in my first response that I have built many super Alco S-2’s and a couple S-1’s using the Cary S-2 shell. These were all GN S-2’s (they only had 10, I built 9 of them) which contained a plethora of added details. The others were GB&W S-2’s and S-1’s. One GN s-2 and one GB&W S-1 were made at the request of Don Stromberg, owner of Cary, for use as displays at shows he and his wife, Dolores attended. Like most of the cottage industry model manufacturers I’ve met (if a 1500 sq. shop qualifies as “cottage”) they were very friendly people. Colleen, my wife, and I became very good friends with them and visited their home several times on the three short years between when we met and Don’s way-too-early death. I also built two GN RS-1’s  using pieces supplied by Don for an article for MR which they purchased from me a week before the attending the 1987 National train Show at the NMRA convention in Eugene, OR. where Atlas introduced their injection molded RS-1. Well, I had the money, the article was MR’s property but they never printed it. So Don never received any return for the pieces he gave to build the RS -1. Maybe if the Cary shell would have been the correct width but it was designed to be used on an Athearn (or Hobbytown, most used Athearn) drive and at that time Athearn was still using their wide motor. Oh well.   I used Athearn drives and managed to redo the frames motor mount area of the frame so I could duplicate the appearance of the prototype under the sills. I found I could saw the motor mount area short enough to match the battery box width and still maintain enough material for the Athearn mounts to hold the motor in place. In actual practice an all but the two for Cary I replaced the motor with Sagami 2032 can motors with flywheels. Then I would build out each side of the mount casting with lead until the Cary shell’s battery box faces cast onto the shell would just fit over the weights giving the appearance of the Cary casting and the rest of the box were all one piece unless one picked up the model for a real close look. Then I built partial air tanks and added then to the front and rear of cut down motor mount area of the frame to duplicate the Alco’s twin, center mounted between the battery boxes air tanks. It looked pretty good and added more weight.   Speaking of weight by looking at the kind of discoloration of your Cary S-2 I’d guess you have the real Cary shell made of a lead antimony alloy. After Bowser bought the line when Don was so ill they switched to a Zamak type of alloy, not as heavy and much harder to work with. But I doubt their higher production methods would work well with the old alloy and besides lead was rapidly gaining a very nasty reputation around then.   Between those models, several F units and a SW1500 for a friend who only used Hobbytown drives, a couple of GP’s and FM I can’t begin to tell how many tiny little holes I’ve drilled into those lead antimony shell for grab irons and all kind of other alliances. Hmm, maybe all those lead shavings are why my mind is oatmeal these days. I can see it now, headlines claiming that new studies have shown shavings from lead antimony model trains cause CRS Syndrome.   Crap I can go on. Anyway thanks for the info.   John Hagen p.s. CRS = Can’t Remember Shi….that is, Stuff.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car [11 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] John,   I've attached a photo from when I bought my first  complete IVERS diecast kit on ebay, If you need a copy of the instructions I'd be glad to send a scan; I've ended up with 3 unbuilt kits, and one shell I bought on eBay already decorated for the W&OD, that was how I came to know about this kit.     The British MR mags are filled with tips on soldering white metal kits, that was my plan, though I know most US modelers use various cyanoacrylates.  The other diecast shell photos are some examples     I also attached a photo of an unbuilt Keystone 44T brass and diecast kit that comes with an NWSL drive; NWSL used to sell the drive separately, and the IVERS kit instructions recommend using one for power, though I've seen them powered also with SPUDS and Bachmann drives.  I also managed to get three of these kits and three separate drives before I switched my plans to brass; I will say the drives for the NJCB 44Ts are worthless, and the Hallmark 70 T drive only marginal, so I'm pretty sure I'll be using all six NWSL drives in the six small switchers that the W&OD ran.   I'm also a fan of the vintage HO Tenshodo track, and hope to use it for all the visible sections of the layout, once the trackplan is proven with Atlas code 100 flex track.  It's mostly double track, and the Tru Scale double turnouts are an integral part of that scheme, again I got one of those in a box of track, I'd never seen one, but they work for me in avoiding any return loop wiring issues, and I think they just look cool.   I remember the MR article you mentioned, but the inspiration for me came suddenly...I'd originally planned and started towards a traditionally colorful sceniced layout, but once I got some brass and some of the Tenshodo track, and saw how the pictures of them looked when they were placed on an antique wooden desk top, I was hooked.  I've got several wackjob W&OD motive power units to build, and this is a three deck layout intended for operation, so I figured the only way I'd get all the engines and layout built in time to enjoy it while I'm still breathing was to forgo scenery, paint, decals, etc., and just focus on accumulating the roster, bashing what needed bashing to match the prototype, scratchbuild what I had to, and now that I'm getting some car fleets together, someday next year I'll be able to start some rudimentary operations! P.S. now that I've got enough to do all the sections I need,  I can say I've  often wondered why brass collectors didn't use Tenshodo or Tru Scale for display track...   Chris B.   Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5) Recent Activity: ·         New Members 1 ·         New Photos 10 ·         New Links 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19779	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Mantua Pacific Question & Replies

Thanks, everyone!   I'll pass the information on to my friend and let's see what he does!   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19780	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Won Bid

> > > > i just won a bid on eBay that is a vintage piece for my > collection. Go to 150849110182 Vintage HO Scale Alco Passenger > Diesel. It is made by Models Inc. a company only in business 2 or 3 > years. They only made Alco A&B and an E unit A&B. This one is > important because it has original box, paperwork and is powered. I > think it has a Lindsay 6 wheel power truck. The paperwork will fill > in some missing blanks. > > I have a mint A body only and a complete B unit dummy that looks > mint but was painted silver. I intend to take the drive out of the one > I won since it has the windows cut out and put it in the Mint A body I > have. I'll save the body I won because they are very rare and not many > made. Price was great. A nice addition to my vintage collection. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19781	From: Chris B	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass Mantua lot from eBay with tank car

Thanks Ray, will do. I've got 6 of the old heavy S-2 shells, and 6 Hobbytown yard switcher drives, and 6 sets of Alco brass Blunt sideframes...the W&OD leased 6 from their last owner, the C&O. The C&O HS newsletter provided a 2part article on super-detailing the Cary shell, pt 2 of the article includes photosand notes on all 6 units leased by the W&OD...now I'll use that info to detail the 6 brass Alco S-2s I've collected...maybe someday I'll get to the. Cary bodies... All for fun... Chris B. Sent from Yahoo! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...>; To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: RE: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass Mantua lot from eBay with tank car Sent: Mon, Jul 9, 2012 8:03:38 PM   Chris,   I’d appreciate very much if you would scan the instructions for the Ivers 70 T kit.   I have done some diecast soldering albeit not for kit assembling. Back when my son and I were selling custom decorated diecast police cars there were a few that wanted “slick” top marked cars. Well since all the police car models came with holes in the roofs for mounting the light bars I would have to plug said holes. Not wanting to use any sort of putty to prevent possible cracking around the outer diameter of the holes I choose to solder them shut. I don’t remember the name of the company that made the solder but it works very well. They also make solder for aluminum and other metals. I’d have to go to my downstairs work station to find the name but won’t get there today.   I failed to mention in my first response that I have built many super Alco S-2’s and a couple S-1’s using the Cary S-2 shell. These were all GN S-2’s (they only had 10, I built 9 of them) which contained a plethora of added details. The others were GB&W S-2’s and S-1’s. One GN s-2 and one GB&W S-1 were made at the request of Don Stromberg, owner of Cary, for use as displays at shows he and his wife, Dolores attended. Like most of the cottage industry model manufacturers I’ve met (if a 1500 sq. shop qualifies as “cottage”) they were very friendly people. Colleen, my wife, and I became very good friends with them and visited their home several times on the three short years between when we met and Don’s way-too-early death. I also built two GN RS-1’s  using pieces supplied by Don for an article for MR which they purchased from me a week before the attending the 1987 National train Show at the NMRA convention in Eugene, OR. where Atlas introduced their injection molded RS-1. Well, I had the money, the article was MR’s property but they never printed it. So Don never received any return for the pieces he gave to build the RS -1. Maybe if the Cary shell would have been the correct width but it was designed to be used on an Athearn (or Hobbytown, most used Athearn) drive and at that time Athearn was still using their wide motor. Oh well.   I used Athearn drives and managed to redo the frames motor mount area of the frame so I could duplicate the appearance of the prototype under the sills. I found I could saw the motor mount area short enough to match the battery box width and still maintain enough material for the Athearn mounts to hold the motor in place. In actual practice an all but the two for Cary I replaced the motor with Sagami 2032 can motors with flywheels. Then I would build out each side of the mount casting with lead until the Cary shell’s battery box faces cast onto the shell would just fit over the weights giving the appearance of the Cary casting and the rest of the box were all one piece unless one picked up the model for a real close look. Then I built partial air tanks and added then to the front and rear of cut down motor mount area of the frame to duplicate the Alco’s twin, center mounted between the battery boxes air tanks. It looked pretty good and added more weight.   Speaking of weight by looking at the kind of discoloration of your Cary S-2 I’d guess you have the real Cary shell made of a lead antimony alloy. After Bowser bought the line when Don was so ill they switched to a Zamak type of alloy, not as heavy and much harder to work with. But I doubt their higher production methods would work well with the old alloy and besides lead was rapidly gaining a very nasty reputation around then.   Between those models, several F units and a SW1500 for a friend who only used Hobbytown drives, a couple of GP’s and FM I can’t begin to tell how many tiny little holes I’ve drilled into those lead antimony shell for grab irons and all kind of other alliances. Hmm, maybe all those lead shavings are why my mind is oatmeal these days. I can see it now, headlines claiming that new studies have shown shavings from lead antimony model trains cause CRS Syndrome.   Crap I can go on. Anyway thanks for the info.   John Hagen p.s. CRS = Can’t Remember Shi….that is, Stuff.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [vintageHO] brass mantua lot from ebay with tank car [11 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Chris B included below] John,   I've attached a photo from when I bought my first  complete IVERS diecast kit on ebay, If you need a copy of the instructions I'd be glad to send a scan; I've ended up with 3 unbuilt kits, and one shell I bought on eBay already decorated for the W&OD, that was how I came to know about this kit.     The British MR mags are filled with tips on soldering white metal kits, that was my plan, though I know most US modelers use various cyanoacrylates.  The other diecast shell photos are some examples     I also attached a photo of an unbuilt Keystone 44T brass and diecast kit that comes with an NWSL drive; NWSL used to sell the drive separately, and the IVERS kit instructions recommend using one for power, though I've seen them powered also with SPUDS and Bachmann drives.  I also managed to get three of these kits and three separate drives before I switched my plans to brass; I will say the drives for the NJCB 44Ts are worthless, and the Hallmark 70 T drive only marginal, so I'm pretty sure I'll be using all six NWSL drives in the six small switchers that the W&OD ran.   I'm also a fan of the vintage HO Tenshodo track, and hope to use it for all the visible sections of the layout, once the trackplan is proven with Atlas code 100 flex track.  It's mostly double track, and the Tru Scale double turnouts are an integral part of that scheme, again I got one of those in a box of track, I'd never seen one, but they work for me in avoiding any return loop wiring issues, and I think they just look cool.   I remember the MR article you mentioned, but the inspiration for me came suddenly...I'd originally planned and started towards a traditionally colorful sceniced layout, but once I got some brass and some of the Tenshodo track, and saw how the pictures of them looked when they were placed on an antique wooden desk top, I was hooked.  I've got several wackjob W&OD motive power units to build, and this is a three deck layout intended for operation, so I figured the only way I'd get all the engines and layout built in time to enjoy it while I'm still breathing was to forgo scenery, paint, decals, etc., and just focus on accumulating the roster, bashing what needed bashing to match the prototype, scratchbuild what I had to, and now that I'm getting some car fleets together, someday next year I'll be able to start some rudimentary operations! P.S. now that I've got enough to do all the sections I need,  I can say I've  often wondered why brass collectors didn't use Tenshodo or Tru Scale for display track...   Chris B.   Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5) Recent Activity: ·         New Members 1 ·         New Photos 10 ·         New Links 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19782	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Moving Ahead on Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8196.JPG IMG_8195.JPG IMG_8194.JPG With the frame repainted I have moved ahead and have cleaned the Patina / Crude off the Boiler / Cab. Got it fairly clean under all the piping. Have 2 little dents I have to fix on the boiler. file some solder and sand some scratches. After that paint and add brass bell. Got real Anthracite hard coal in the tender coal bin. Have to start looking through my decals to see what I could put on it. Starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel if nothing else causes me to go backwards. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19783	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Hobbies Inc. A&B

Attachments : IMG_8202.JPG IMG_8201.JPG I've sent pictures of an A&B Alco made by Hobbies Inc similar to the powered A unit with O/B and paperwork that I won on eBay which will help increase knowledge about them. They are made of cast aluminum. You can tell just by picking one up. Not many made. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19784	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. A&B [2 Attachments]

Thanks Jim, I had neverseen these before. They look better than most of the zamac units that I have seen. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 7/10/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > I've sent pictures of an A&B Alco made by > Hobbies Inc similar to the powered A unit with O/B and paperwork that I > won on eBay which will help increase knowledge about them. They are made > of cast aluminum. You can tell just by picking one up. Not many made. > > Jim H > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19785	From: jbark76	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Won Bid

Well, I'm glad I stopped bidding where I did. I have a kit for the B unit and kits for hobbytown A units. I'll stick with my original plan of pairing the B unit with a Hobbytown A. I think I'll power them both with Hobbytown drives. -Jeff-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19786	From: Jim	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: COLLECTION OF HO FROM THE EARLY 50'S ON UP.

I recently purchased a extremely large collection of HO engines, rolling stock, buildings, bridges and parts. I knew the gentleman who passed away from train shows in the area. I didn't even know he had passed until one of his sons called me wanting to know if I was interested in purchasing the collection. I wasn't really sure what all it contained, but the asking price was irrestiable. The collection filled half of the up-stairs of a two story house. It filled my large econoline van as well as my son's car. There are several hundred engines, and cars. Over two hundred structures and thousands of parts. The collection spans from the early 1950's to the mid 1990's. Some of the the items are in need of repair and or cleaning, but surprisingly most of the engines run. Sorting this collection is like studying the history of HO model railroading. I started model railroading at age 9 in 1954, and some of this pre-dates my entry into the hobby. Some items are so rare that I have only read about them. I have had the collection for about 5 weeks now and I still have several months of sorting to go. The reason I am telling this story is to offer some of the items and parts to fellow collectors. There are many extremely rare items and impossible to find parts in this collection. This is more than I will ever need so I am sharing it with fell HO train collectors. I will never be able to catalogue all the items, so if you have a particular part you need to repair or restore one of your pieces drop me an email with the description and I will see if I have it. Also if you are missing a certain item to finish out your collection, let me know I might just have it. Oh by the way this is only one of 9 collections I have purchased this year. One collection is nothing but old craftsman kits. You can contact me by email at jim_ruef@... or by phone at 2178-317-3009. Thanks and I am looking forward to communicating with some of you in the near future. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19787	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: COLLECTION OF HO FROM THE EARLY 50'S ON UP.

Hi, Jim, Sounds like you got a real treasure chest. It's interesting to read what you think is "rare." At my age things would pretty much have to be prior to '50 to be thought of as being anything close to rare. I can imagine that the gent's son was only too happy to unload such a huge collection as he is probably in charge of emptying the dad's house now that he has passed. This brings to mind an earlier discussion this group has had about what to do about collections when the owner is no longer around. I would like to stress--just briefly--that this is a serious consideration that many older collectors should really bite the bullet about and have a destination in mind other than the dumpster. Again, leaving it all to a relative to dispose of is not nice and often times a real burden when things have to happen quickly after someone's passing. Of course, some of us will live forever! In any case, have fun with the collection(s).  Art W   In a message dated 7/10/2012 11:50:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_ruef@... writes: I recently purchased a extremely large collection of HO engines, rolling stock, buildings, bridges and parts.  I knew the gentleman who passed away from train shows in the area.  I didn't even know he had passed until one of his sons called me wanting to know if I was interested in purchasing the collection.  I wasn't really sure what all it contained, but the asking price was irrestiable.  The collection filled half of the up-stairs of a two story house.  It filled my large econoline van as well as my son's car.  There are several hundred engines, and cars.  Over two hundred structures and thousands of parts. The collection spans from the early 1950's to the mid 1990's.  Some of the the items are in need of repair and or cleaning, but surprisingly most of the engines run.  Sorting this collection is like studying the history of HO model railroading. I started model railroading at age 9 in 1954, and some of this pre-dates my entry into the hobby.  Some items are so rare that I have only read about them.  I have had the collection for about 5 weeks now and I still have several months of sorting to go.  The reason I am telling this story is to offer some of the items and parts to fellow collectors.  There are many extremely rare items and impossible to find parts in this collection.  This is more than I will ever need so I am sharing it with fell HO train collectors.  I will never be able to catalogue all the items, so if you have a particular part you need to repair or restore one of your pieces drop me an email with the description and I will see if I have it.  Also if you are missing a certain item to finish out your collection, let me know I might just have it.  Oh by the way this is only one of 9 collections I have purchased this year.  One collection is nothing but old craftsman kits.  You can contact me by email at jim_ruef@... or by phone at 2178-317-3009.  Thanks and I am looking forward to communicating with some of you in the near   future. Jim ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19788	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Clamps and Clamping

Continuing with a discussion of tools check out my July 10, 2012 blog titled Clamps, Clamps and More Clamps!    That is followed up by a July 11. 2012 blog featuring guest blogger O l' Harold's unique perspective on clamps titled When is a Clamp Not a Clamp?   For those following along there has been some progress made on the Hotel Hiser build as I am nearing completion of that long term project.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19789	From: Jim	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: COLLECTION FROM THE 50'S ON UP PHONE NUMBER CORRECTION

Sorry for the typo in my phone number. My correct number is 217-317-3009. Please call me if you have questions or want something from the collection, Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19790	From: Chris B	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: IVERS 70T diecast kits & instructions + Keystone & MEW 44T kits

Attachments : IVERS 70 Ton switcher shell kit instructions front of page.jpg IVERS 70 Ton switcher shell kit instructions EXTRA pg.jpg IVERS 70 Ton switcher shell kit instructions back of page.jpg IMG_9031.JPG IMG_9030.JPG John, Here's the scans of the IVERS kit instructions,  plus some pix of the IVERS and other vintage 44 ton kits I mentioned. The IVERS kit recommends using the NWSL drive that came with the KEYSTONE 44 Ton kit, it was also available separately, photos attached. I've seen the Bachmann drive used, and the MEW 44T kit (photos attached) had a few variations on a basic o ring drive that might also work; and I think the MEW kit has pretty sharp sideframe castings. Chris B.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19791	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Hobbies Inc Alco

Attachments : IMG_8216.JPG IMG_8215.JPG IMG_8214.JPG IMG_8213.JPG IMG_8212.JPG I received the Hobbies Inc Alco this morning. I will share some pictures now till I get a new black ink cartridge. Then everything will be sent to HOseeker. The best part about winning the bid is original box and paperwork. I've tried to show these and the engine so people can see. There is a Lindsay paper for the 6 wheel, two motor power truck that is used in this engine. I didn't copy that paper as it would already be in HO seeker under Lindsay. The bodies are cast aluminum. They are nicely detailed. Haven't even tried to run it yet. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19792	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Hobbies Inc Alco [4 Attachments]

That's really cool Jim!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 1:15 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Hobbies Inc Alco [4 Attachments]   I received the Hobbies Inc Alco this morning. I will share some pictures now till I get a new black ink cartridge. Then everything will be sent to HOseeker. The best part about winning the bid is original box and paperwork. I've tried to show these and the engine so people can see. There is a Lindsay paper for the 6 wheel, two motor power truck that is used in this engine. I didn't copy that paper as it would already be in HO seeker under Lindsay. The bodies are cast aluminum. They are nicely detailed. Haven't even tried to run it yet. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19793	From: pcslrr	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: alexander scale models

hi. i have just recieved an Alexander Scale Models passenger car. it`s a cp-110 monitor roof baggage car . my question is when was it made? it`s a beautiful car. civil war era, prr lettering , all metal , top condition .i can`t find it on ho seeker, so i come here to find out more . thanks for anything. howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19794	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models

On 7/13/2012 9:24 PM, pcslrr wrote: > hi. i have just recieved an Alexander Scale Models passenger car. > it`s a cp-110 monitor roof baggage car . my question is when was it made? it`s a beautiful car. civil war era, prr lettering , all metal , top condition .i can`t find it on ho seeker, so i come here to find out more . thanks for anything. howard > > > The design dates back quite a bit further, but Alexander bought the former MEW / Model Engineering Works line ca; 1969/1970 They're listed in the 1969 Walthers book as MEW, 1970 as Alexander.. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19795	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models

And originally they were made by Hi-Ballers Corporation of Burbank, California.  You can see some of their line on HO Seekers.  If I remember correctly they were introduced circa 1953 - 1954.  Weighed a ton! John B. Allyn From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:43:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] alexander scale models   On 7/13/2012 9:24 PM, pcslrr wrote: > hi. i have just recieved an Alexander Scale Models passenger car. > it`s a cp-110 monitor roof baggage car . my question is when was it made? it`s a beautiful car. civil war era, prr lettering , all metal , top condition .i can`t find it on ho seeker, so i come here to find out more . thanks for anything. howard > > > The design dates back quite a bit further, but Alexander bought the former MEW / Model Engineering Works line ca; 1969/1970 They're listed in the 1969 Walthers book as MEW, 1970 as Alexander.. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19796	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models

This was first made by Model Engineering Works -- as Don has said. My Walthers 1964 catalog has them ("Hi Ball" paasenger cars) , but they're not found in my 1961 catalog, so they were not made before 1962 yet were found anytime from 1964 on, and perhaps up to a couple years earlier (I don't have the '62 or '63 catalogs). Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19797	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: alexander scale models

In the 50s, those cars were originally made by Highballers.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jul 14, 2012 6:43 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] alexander scale models On 7/13/2012 9:24 PM, pcslrr wrote: > hi. i have just recieved an Alexander Scale Models passenger car. > it`s a cp-110 monitor roof baggage car . my question is when was it made? it`s a beautiful car. civil war era, prr lettering , all metal , top condition .i can`t find it on ho seeker, so i come here to find out more . thanks for anything. howard > > > The design dates back quite a bit further, but Alexander bought the former MEW / Model Engineering Works line ca; 1969/1970 They're listed in the 1969 Walthers book as MEW, 1970 as Alexander.. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19798	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Hi-Ballers Corporation

Attachments : IMG_8223.JPG IMG_8222.JPG IMG_8221.JPG IMG_8219.JPG Thought I would add some information about Hi-Ballers Passenger cars. I've sent 4 pictures of the box they came in. They had 4 road names :Pennsy ( the set I have ), Boston & Maine ), Chicago-Milwaukee and St Paul & Central Pacific. There were 4 types of cars : Baggage, Combination, Mail Car and Coach. You can see one of each type of car and each road name on the side of the box. They are on HOseeker in Mint Kit Form with O/B. Go to HOseeker , click on Literature and find Hi Ballers. There is one construction / assembly sheet there as all 4 sheets are same construction with different sides. Then go back and click on Gallery, then Hi-Ballers and you will find 5 pictures. First one is assembled and not mine. Next four different Pennsy kits are mine. I can only guess around 1950 but other companies bought them out. Hope this helps a little. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19799	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc Alco [8 Attachments]

Very interesting Jim...  Thanks.  Don Staton in VA. -------------------------------------------- On 7/13/2012 1:13 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   I received the Hobbies Inc Alco this morning. I will share some pictures now till I get a new black ink cartridge. Then everything will be sent to HOseeker. The best part about winning the bid is original box and paperwork. I've tried to show these and the engine so people can see. There is a Lindsay paper for the 6 wheel, two motor power truck that is used in this engine. I didn't copy that paper as it would already be in HO seeker under Lindsay. The bodies are cast aluminum. They are nicely detailed. Haven't even tried to run it yet. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19800	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]

Add to that a combination caboose which was their combination car plus a Central Valley(?)  cupola, a roof walk, end platforms, and ladders.  This is the one that I had. John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:53:52 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Thought I would add some information about Hi-Ballers Passenger cars. I've sent 4 pictures of the box they came in. They had 4 road names :Pennsy ( the set I have ), Boston & Maine ), Chicago-Milwaukee and St Paul & Central Pacific. There were 4 types of cars : Baggage, Combination, Mail Car and Coach. You can see one of each type of car and each road name on the side of the box. They are on HOseeker in Mint Kit Form with O/B. Go to HOseeker , click on Literature and find Hi Ballers. There is one construction / assembly sheet there as all 4 sheets are same construction with different sides. Then go back and click on Gallery, then Hi-Ballers and you will find 5 pictures. First one is assembled and not mine. Next four different Pennsy kits are mine. I can only guess around 1950 but other companies bought them out. Hope this helps a little. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19801	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Oregon's Rail Heritage is on the Move!

v ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ray and Jon <Luctor_et_emergo@...> Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 6:14 AM Subject: Fw: Oregon's Rail Heritage is on the Move! To: "Lorts, Sr. Raymond" <gn5263@...> dad,   look at the area that says grand opening.  I think you would be interested.   love   ray Jr.   From: Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:07 AM To: luctor_et_emergo@... Subject: Oregon's Rail Heritage is on the Move!   Sent by: Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation Reply to the sender In this update: Construction Progress Become a Member Summer and fall celebratory events Construction Progress A lot has been happening at both the Enginehouse and the Brooklyn Roundhouse as construction crews and volunteers get ready for the move. Check out the progress at Enginehouse Updates and explore our website. Become a Member Be a part of the Oregon Rail Heritage Center! Memberships will be offered in the next weeks that will include benefits and keep you on track with Rail Heritage Center plans, programs and events. Membership will be available at both the “Friend” and “Patron” level for both individuals and families. Look for this announcement in the mail or go the website to be a Charter Member now for more information. Get on board as a supporter of Oregon’s Rail Heritage Center. Become a member of the Oregon Rail Heritage Center crew. Summer and Fall Celebratory Events ORHF volunteers are busy getting ready to move into our new home and preparing it for all to see. We are planning a series of events that will celebrate this milestone with the many volunteers and supporters who have made this possible: Volunteers: Stay tuned for details on a volunteer preview event if you have been an active rail heritage volunteer. Members: We will be scheduling an exclusive event for Oregon Rail Heritage Center members. ORHF’s cadre of rail heritage interpreters will be on hand to explain the history of the locomotives and to answer questions. We will contact members with further details. Grand Opening: The Oregon Rail Heritage Center will open to the community on September 22nd – the same day as the opening of the new Eastside Streetcar line with a streetcar stop a block from our doorstep. Expect to hear and see one of the locomotives steamed up and celebrate the culmination of a 14-year vision for preserving Oregon’s Rail Heritage. By 2015 the Center will be surrounded by modern rail on all sides. Invite your friends and family to join us for the celebration!! Details to follow. Thank you for helping to preserve Oregon’s and our nation’s rail heritage! Phil Selinger Executive Director   This e-mail was sent from Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation Immediate removal with PatronMail® SecureUnsubscribe. To forward this e-mail to a friend or colleague, use this link. To change your e-mail address or update preferences, use this link. -- I had a stroke.   I will reply to your e-mail in 3 days!  thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19802	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]

Richard, Jim, I should have know that these cars made by Model Engineering Works and bought ought by Alexander Scale Models were originally made by the Hi-Ballers Corporation. No wonder they're so similar < g >, and carry the same name. I have a complete set of them, made by the Hi-Ballers Corp. from the '50's. I don't remember what name though (I'd have to dig them out), but they are high quality models, well done by the manufacturer. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19803	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Corporation [4 Attachments]

I'm a bit blown away. I got a Hi Baller PRR baggage car kit shortly ago and I just looked through the paperwork. It's one of the California produced kits and must be from the fifties decade. That's a long time to sit unbuilt! Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jul 14, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Thought I would add some information about Hi-Ballers > Passenger cars. I've sent 4 pictures of the box they came in. They had 4 > road names :Pennsy ( the set I have ), Boston & Maine ), > Chicago-Milwaukee and St Paul & Central Pacific. There were 4 types of > cars : Baggage, Combination, Mail Car and Coach. You can see one of each > type of car and each road name on the side of the box. > > They are on HOseeker in Mint Kit Form with O/B. Go to > HOseeker , click on Literature and find Hi Ballers. There is one > construction / assembly sheet there as all 4 sheets are same > construction with different sides. Then go back and click on Gallery, > then Hi-Ballers and you will find 5 pictures. First one is assembled and > not mine. Next four different Pennsy kits are mine. I can only guess > around 1950 but other companies bought them out. > > Hope this helps a little. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19804	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: won bid on vintage item

> > > > I think I scored a rare vintage item on eBay that I have > never seen cataloged or documented in ads. Go to item 140791375007 > HO Lindberg ILLINOIS CENTRAL RR EMD ( SW-1 ). Now I know that Lindberg > engines were plastic, cheap and noisy runners but it is the rail road > name Illinois Central that is the rare part to me. Lindberg always had > Santa Fe, B&O and C&NW engines. You might think it is repainted and > decals however if you go to Tony Cook's HO Scale Train Resource and > click on Lindberg you will see an engine like this. The best part is > in the back ground there is a Lindberg box with printing on the end > flap for Illinois Central along with a number. It was this pictured > engine and box that led me to watch for one. > > Has anybody else seen one or advertised in a Lindberg catalog or > ad or any catalog? > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19805	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: won bid on vintage item

On 7/15/2012 9:43 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> >> I think I scored a rare vintage item on eBay that I have >> never seen cataloged or documented in ads. Go to item 140791375007 >> HO Lindberg ILLINOIS CENTRAL RR EMD ( SW-1 ). Now I know that Lindberg >> engines were plastic, cheap and noisy runners but it is the rail road >> name Illinois Central that is the rare part to me. Lindberg always had >> Santa Fe, B&O and C&NW engines. You might think it is repainted and >> decals however if you go to Tony Cook's HO Scale Train Resource and >> click on Lindberg you will see an engine like this. The best part is >> in the back ground there is a Lindberg box with printing on the end >> flap for Illinois Central along with a number. It was this pictured >> engine and box that led me to watch for one. >> >> Has anybody else seen one or advertised in a Lindberg catalog or >> ad or any catalog? >> >> Jim H >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I can't put my hands on an ad to scan, but, according to my notes, when the model was first advertised IC WAS one of the road names listed, along with B&O, AT&SF and C&NW. If I find the ad I'll scan it and post it. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19806	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Rare Lindberg SW-1

Attachments : IMG_8239.JPG IMG_8235.JPG IMG_8234.JPG IMG_8233.JPG I received the latest item I won on eBay. It is a rare Lindberg SW-1 Illinois Central engine . I have never seen an Illinois Central lettered Lindberg SW-1 in any catalog, ad or another engine except in Tony Cook's website. That is how I first learned about it and he has the original box with Illinois Central name and # 603 printed on the flap. So when the one came on eBay and I knew the seller from 15 + years ago I took the chance when he said rare, vintage and original and I won it. It is not mint but in great shape. Motor runs ( they were all noisy ). all the plastic handrails are on. It has KD's on which I will change to the original Lindberg couplers. It was also missing the bell and the horn that I replaced with original parts. I am lucky enough to have that big Lindberg train set box that in reality is parts to build complete engines including motors, the coil spring for the drive and complete bodies for 3 ( Santa Fe, B&O, C&NW ) mint engines. I am sure it is original. Plastic is solid black . Everything else looks right. The decals could have been centered better but the one Tony Cook shows is not much better. At least the number 603 is centered and printed on. I sent a picture of the C&NW which has decals on the cab so Lindberg did use decals. The only bad thing is the stack was broke off and was put back on but needs a little work so you can't notice. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19807	From: Jake Bechtel	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19808	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Hi, Very much like mine. I'll have to dig out my camera, but this is a good time, as my 4-8-2 is disassembled right now anyway, so I can clean out the motor commutator and give it a good tune up. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19809	From: Garry Spear	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Hi  Jake, I have a Knapp mountain (in my vintage ho display case) that matches your mechanical description.  I have owned it since 1947-48, a present from my father.  It is 100% brass castings, so I suspect it is a pre-war.  There is no blacking on the engine,  just a brush paint by my father. It had a Bowser type motor which I replaced with a modern can motor  I still have the original motor in my parts assortment.  The worm is mounted  between mounting lugs on the frame. I'll try to get some pictures. Garrett (Garry) Spear On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote:   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19810	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Original Bowser Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8251_2.JPG IMG_8250_2.JPG IMG_8246_2.JPG Maybe these pictures will help with the Redlands CA Bowser Mountain. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19811	From: Don Murphy	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.

Greetings group! I need to replace the side rods on a rigid frame Varney Berk and I thought of using Mantua Mike side rods if the axle centers match. Does anyone know if they do or have any other ideas? Thanks. Don Murphy

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19812	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.

Don, I doubt if they will match. The Varney drivers were 63" and the Mantua ones were 61". I think you will find the Mantua rods too short to match. A mismatch here will render your locomotive not able to run as it will lock up the mechanism. Your choices would be to either find a Varney replacement or have a machinist friend make an accurate set for you. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Murphy <prrsteam@...> wrote: > > Greetings group! > > I need to replace the side rods on a rigid frame Varney Berk and I thought of using Mantua Mike side rods if the axle centers match. Does anyone know if they do or have any other ideas? > > Thanks. > > Don Murphy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19813	From: wdavis5069	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Truck Leaf Springs

Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I can find are the coil springs. Thanks, Wil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19814	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

PSC sells them.  I could not find the part number on Walthers, but when I get home tonight, I will look it up.  I believe I still have the package with the part number. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wdavis5069@... Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:05:52 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Truck Leaf Springs   Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I can find are the coil springs. Thanks, Wil

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

On 7/20/2012 7:05 AM, wdavis5069 wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I can find are the coil springs. > > Thanks, > Wil http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ Click on "MISC", then "scratchbuilding supplies and parts", then "springs", go to the second page. Part number 357 They Ain't cheap though! Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19816	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

Hi Don, Those weren't the ones I was thinking.  I was thinking part number 31968, $2.25 for 10, which is what I have used for HO.  But, looking at part number 357, they look much nicer.  I do agree that $8.00 for 4 of em is a bit steep.  However, are these for HO?  Looking at the ruler, they are about 12 or 13 mm, which is about a 1/2 inch.   That looks a bit large for ho, no? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:22:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Truck Leaf Springs   On 7/20/2012 7:05 AM, wdavis5069 wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I can find are the coil springs. > > Thanks, > Wil http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ Click on "MISC", then "scratchbuilding supplies and parts", then "springs", go to the second page. Part number 357 They Ain't cheap though! Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19817	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

On 7/20/2012 7:46 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote: Hi Don, Those weren't the ones I was thinking.  I was thinking part number 31968, $2.25 for 10, which is what I have used for HO.  But, looking at part number 357, they look much nicer.  I do agree that $8.00 for 4 of em is a bit steep.  However, are these for HO?  Looking at the ruler, they are about 12 or 13 mm, which is about a 1/2 inch.   That looks a bit large for ho, no? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:22:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Truck Leaf Springs   On 7/20/2012 7:05 AM, wdavis5069 wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I can find are the coil springs. > > Thanks, > Wil http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ Click on "MISC", then "scratchbuilding supplies and parts", then "springs", go to the second page. Part number 357 They Ain't cheap though! Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ I didn't see a dimension, my bad. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19818	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Attachments : knapp frame 2.jpg knapp frame 1.jpg knapp boiler.jpg All, Found my camera, then could not find the locomotive. Ends up that a certain four legged furry one (A cat named for the Norse god of mischief - Loki) managed to knock it off my desk, right to that spot she knocks things into, which is the spot behind the desk that is hard to get to. Cats, gotta love 'em! Anyway, the pics show (what is left of) mine now. Seems due to a certain cat, a simple clean out and tune up will now involve repairing the motor brush assembly, main drive rods, and the valve gear (To be fair though, the fireman's side valve gear was repaired once already - it was soldered to the pin, and was broken when I got the engine). Runs fairly smooth, but somewhat slow, due to a filthy motor. Plus the running gear and pilot seems largely not original. The pilot (Unpainted) is a Varney part, and I suspect the drive wheels to not be original either. They're not the Bowser wheels for sure, as Bowser used Box Pox drivers, and the Knapp wheels had casting issues. I am sure that if these are the Knapp drivers, that they would be very damaged now from being used as a cat toy! So my bet is they are from some other company. Still is a nice locomotive! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:59 PM   Hi, Very much like mine. I'll have to dig out my camera, but this is a good time, as my 4-8-2 is disassembled right now anyway, so I can clean out the motor commutator and give it a good tune up. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19819	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]

Mine came with Boxpox drivers but I bought a set of spoked drivers from Bowser for it in the '60s. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. --------------------------------------------------------- On 7/20/2012 9:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   All, Found my camera, then could not find the locomotive. Ends up that a certain four legged furry one (A cat named for the Norse god of mischief - Loki) managed to knock it off my desk, right to that spot she knocks things into, which is the spot behind the desk that is hard to get to. Cats, gotta love 'em! Anyway, the pics show (what is left of) mine now. Seems due to a certain cat, a simple clean out and tune up will now involve repairing the motor brush assembly, main drive rods, and the valve gear (To be fair though, the fireman's side valve gear was repaired once already - it was soldered to the pin, and was broken when I got the engine). Runs fairly smooth, but somewhat slow, due to a filthy motor. Plus the running gear and pilot seems largely not original. The pilot (Unpainted) is a Varney part, and I suspect the drive wheels to not be original either. They're not the Bowser wheels for sure, as Bowser used Box Pox drivers, and the Knapp wheels had casting issues. I am sure that if these are the Knapp drivers, that they would be very damaged now from being used as a cat toy! So my bet is they are from some other company. Still is a nice locomotive! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:59 PM   Hi, Very much like mine. I'll have to dig out my camera, but this is a good time, as my 4-8-2 is disassembled right now anyway, so I can clean out the motor commutator and give it a good tune up. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19820	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Not sure how my comment here fits into the thread of the discussion about Knapp/Bowser, but I have had several Knapps with drivers in good shape, and they all had the 2 sets of blind drivers in the middle and flanged ones on the front and rear. Looks like someone experimented with a different arrangement with Steve's. Also, I believe that when Bowser first bought out Knapp they used a lot of the supply of the inherited spoked drivers for a brief period with all drivers being flanged on their Mountains. Then they went to the boxpox type. I have examples of both types in my collection.   Art W in PA and Pennsy/Reading/B&O/NH&I country   In a message dated 7/20/2012 9:33:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chpln1@... writes: Mine came with Boxpox drivers but I bought a set of spoked drivers from Bowser for it in the '60s. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. --------------------------------------------------------- On 7/20/2012 9:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   All, Found my camera, then could not find the locomotive. Ends up that a certain four legged furry one (A cat named for the Norse god of mischief - Loki) managed to knock it off my desk, right to that spot she knocks things into, which is the spot behind the desk that is hard to get to. Cats, gotta love 'em! Anyway, the pics show (what is left of) mine now. Seems due to a certain cat, a simple clean out and tune up will now involve repairing the motor brush assembly, main drive rods, and the valve gear (To be fair though, the fireman's side valve gear was repaired once already - it was soldered to the pin, and was broken when I got the engine). Runs fairly smooth, but somewhat slow, due to a filthy motor. Plus the running gear and pilot seems largely not original. The pilot (Unpainted) is a Varney part, and I suspect the drive wheels to not be original either. They're not the Bowser wheels for sure, as Bowser used Box Pox drivers, and the Knapp wheels had casting issues. I am sure that if these are the Knapp drivers, that they would be very damaged now from being used as a cat toy! So my bet is they are from some other company. Still is a nice locomotive! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:59 PM   Hi, Very much like mine. I'll have to dig out my camera, but this is a good time, as my 4-8-2 is disassembled right now anyway, so I can clean out the motor commutator and give it a good tune up. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19821	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]

Steve, Looks like it might indeed be a 3 pole motor. Is it??? And the gearing IS on the 2nd driver too. On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] From: Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19822	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Walter, Yes, the motor is indeed a three pole. I'd forgotten to mention that earlier. May or may not get the locomotive running anytime soon with the new damage caused by the cat. Got tons of other projects that need my attention too. So, the locomotive will likely be apart for a while. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 7/20/12, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 20, 2012, 10:52 PM   Steve, Looks like it might indeed be a 3 pole motor. Is it??? And the gearing IS on the 2nd driver too. On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] From: Jake Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   Hi Folks, Looking for some help. Does anyone have any drawings or photos of the Knapp 4-8-2 frame? I acquired a cast brass/bronze loco today that at first look appeared to be the Bowser of Redlands, CA mountain but after removing the boiler - the frame and drive chain doesn't match any of the Bowser mechs that I have seen. All cast parts have been chemically blackened, no paint used on this one. The motor is a 3 pole, not 5 and the worm gear is mounted on the #2 driver not the #3. There is a flexable spring drive shaft connecting the motor and worm and the shaft is only .079" diameter, smaller than expected. Although the motor grossly looks like the Bowser design, all of the Bowser of Redlands that I have seen were 5 pole. The headlamp is a #6BV GE lamp and wiring is fabric covered stranded steel wire. Drivers are brass tired and scale out to 64" on #1 & #4 with .032" flanges. #2 & #3 are blind and scale out to 62.6" Drive rods and valve gear are definately oversized and mounted on pins in the drivers. The simplified valve gear is soldered to the pin on the #2 driver and overall it appears more prewar than postwar. Has anyone else ever seen one like this? Is this a very early Bowser set of castings mounted to the Knapp frame and using an original Bowser 3 pole from '47 or '48, perhaps a Bill Bowser prototype? I'm trying to locate a camera to take suitable phots with and will post them as soon as possible. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19823	From: wdavis5069	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

Thanks to all. I found what I was looking for #31968 Springs, brass leaf, D&RGW caboose, @ 10 for $2.25. The only drawback is the estimated shipping is $7.00 (ouch) which makes them almost $1.00 each. I guess I will bite the bullet and should have a lifetime supply. I do have one possible alternate and that is a good friend who is sure he has some, if he can find them. Depends on how long I want to wait.:-) Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Don,Those weren't the ones I was thinking. I was thinking part number 31968, $2.25 for 10, which is what I have used for HO. But, looking at part number 357, they look much nicer. I do agree that $8.00 for 4 of em is a bit steep. However, are these for HO? Looking at the ruler, they are about 12 or 13 mm, which is about a 1/2 inch. That looks a bit large for ho, no? > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: don.dellmann@... > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:22:03 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Truck Leaf Springs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/20/2012 7:05 AM, wdavis5069 wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I can find are the coil springs. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Wil > > > > http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ > > > > Click on "MISC", then "scratchbuilding supplies and parts", then > > "springs", go to the second page. Part number 357 > > > > They Ain't cheap though! > > > > Don > > > > -- > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19824	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.

Don, I could pull out some parts to see, but I believe Bill is 100% correct here!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: CinderCrusher <defoe242@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Axle centers on Varney Berk and Mantua Mike.   Don, I doubt if they will match. The Varney drivers were 63" and the Mantua ones were 61". I think you will find the Mantua rods too short to match. A mismatch here will render your locomotive not able to run as it will lock up the mechanism. Your choices would be to either find a Varney replacement or have a machinist friend make an accurate set for you. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Murphy <prrsteam@...> wrote: > > Greetings group! > > I need to replace the side rods on a rigid frame Varney Berk and I thought of using Mantua Mike side rods if the axle centers match. Does anyone know if they do or have any other ideas? > > Thanks. > > Don Murphy >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19825	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Knapp Mountain

Have heard a lot over the years about the Knapp Mountain. I believe certain things too but I have never seen a parts list/ assembly sheet/ etc. for the Knapp ( Not the Bill Bowser Mountain ). The only thing I have found other then speculation is some ads from Knapp Electric of Indianapolis, Indiana and on ad from a hobby shop that were in Model Railroader I believe none of which has a good picture of the Knapp engine. If anyone has something I would love to see it as it would help with verification of information. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Scratch Pacific body

Attachments : IMG_8266.JPG IMG_8265.JPG IMG_8263.JPG I just finished painting my scratch built PacificI bought and was refurbishing. After getting the tender and frame so nice the Cab/Boiler turned into what I call a "puss case". If you remember the cab was beat up and just hanging on. After getting it back together and using an epoxy to fill in dents I sandpapered it smooth. I then painted it using my rattle can. Lo and behold it had a run visible on the boiler. After trying to think how I should fix it I decided to put it in brake fluid and clean it off again. New paint comes off in no time but I forgot that the epoxy might react with the brake fluid. It did. It shrunk it in places and some bubbled up so I had to get it off and start again. I re epoxied and sanded smooth. I painted it again and it is decent. Some places had heavy solder from previous builder like around outside front of cab and under the cab where piping runs. ( Shows up on pictures.) I tried to get it off before painting with an Exacto knife and files. Couldn't get at it very good. I'm not pleased with the results but it will have to do. After how the tender and frame/drive came out I'm very disappointed. Not going to try a third time. Thank goodness it was only for my fantasy collection and not my rare vintage collection. I will assembly the major pieces get it running and chalk it up to experience. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19827	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Scratch Pacific body [3 Attachments]

Considering what you started with, I think it came out very well...  Good job, Jim. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------- On 7/21/2012 2:22 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   I just finished painting my scratch built PacificI bought and was refurbishing. After getting the tender and frame so nice the Cab/Boiler turned into what I call a "puss case". If you remember the cab was beat up and just hanging on. After getting it back together and using an epoxy to fill in dents I sandpapered it smooth. I then painted it using my rattle can. Lo and behold it had a run visible on the boiler. After trying to think how I should fix it I decided to put it in brake fluid and clean it off again. New paint comes off in no time but I forgot that the epoxy might react with the brake fluid. It did. It shrunk it in places and some bubbled up so I had to get it off and start again. I re epoxied and sanded smooth. I painted it again and it is decent. Some places had heavy solder from previous builder like around outside front of cab and under the cab where piping runs. ( Shows up on pictures.) I tried to get it off before painting with an Exacto knife and files. Couldn't get at it very good. I'm not pleased with the results but it will have to do. After how the tender and frame/drive came out I'm very disappointed. Not going to try a third time. Thank goodness it was only for my fantasy collection and not my rare vintage collection. I will assembly the major pieces get it running and chalk it up to experience. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19828	From: Glenn	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

those sound like they might be cast brass parts, and it sounds like you are looking for working springs gj -----Original Message----- From: wdavis5069 Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Truck Leaf Springs Thanks to all. I found what I was looking for #31968 Springs, brass leaf, D&RGW caboose, @ 10 for $2.25. The only drawback is the estimated shipping is $7.00 (ouch) which makes them almost $1.00 each. I guess I will bite the bullet and should have a lifetime supply. I do have one possible alternate and that is a good friend who is sure he has some, if he can find them. Depends on how long I want to wait.:-) Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Don,Those weren't the ones I was thinking. I was thinking part number > 31968, $2.25 for 10, which is what I have used for HO. But, looking at > part number 357, they look much nicer. I do agree that $8.00 for 4 of em > is a bit steep. However, are these for HO? Looking at the ruler, they > are about 12 or 13 mm, which is about a 1/2 inch. That looks a bit large > for ho, no? > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: don.dellmann@... > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:22:03 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Truck Leaf Springs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/20/2012 7:05 AM, wdavis5069 wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were > > used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose > > that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, > > but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I > > can find are the coil springs. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Wil > > > > http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ > > > > Click on "MISC", then "scratchbuilding supplies and parts", then > > "springs", go to the second page. Part number 357 > > > > They Ain't cheap though! > > > > Don > > > > -- > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19829	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Rebuilt Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8277.JPG IMG_8275.JPG IMG_8274.JPG IMG_8269.JPG Chuck, Will you add these different views of the scratch built Pacific I bought and rebuilt to the album.. I see I can't even put the frame on the track right. The leading & trailing truck have to be attached. The motor mounted & the brass bell put on the engine. The headlight and taillight will have rhinestones added and the draw bar and wire to tender attached. Then I will hide on a bottom shelf. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19830	From: Nelson	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Steve, you're lucky it's a sturdy beast. Loki must have quite an arm on her. I'm fortunate that any cats I've had left my trains alone, because they would have done a serious time-out if this ever happened. Maybe naming her Loki was just courting trouble. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > All, > > Found my camera, then could not find the locomotive. Ends up that a certain four legged furry one (A cat named for the Norse god of mischief - Loki) managed to knock it off my desk, right to that spot she knocks things into, which is the spot behind the desk that is hard to get to. Cats, gotta love 'em! > > Anyway, the pics show (what is left of) mine now. Seems due to a certain cat, a simple clean out and tune up will now involve repairing the motor brush assembly, main drive rods, and the valve gear (To be fair though, the fireman's side valve gear was repaired once already - it was soldered to the pin, and was broken when I got the engine). > > Runs fairly smooth, but somewhat slow, due to a filthy motor. Plus the running gear and pilot seems largely not original. The pilot (Unpainted) is a Varney part, and I suspect the drive wheels to not be original either. They're not the Bowser wheels for sure, as Bowser used Box Pox drivers, and the Knapp wheels had casting issues. I am sure that if these are the Knapp drivers, that they would be very damaged now from being used as a cat toy! So my bet is they are from some other company. > > Still is a nice locomotive! > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19831	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2

I am rebuilding my second J.E. 4-6-2. On the first one I used MDC 4-4-2 (12L-2) spoked drivers. Blinding the center, geared set allowed for clearance. Anyone know of a source for spked drivers now? Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19832	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2

Bowser has spoked drivers of all sizes. Listed on line. Look for Bowser HO parts--not Cal Scale or Selley. Art W   In a message dated 7/21/2012 8:07:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lewis.ted16@... writes: I am rebuilding my second J.E. 4-6-2. On the first one I used MDC 4-4-2 (12L-2) spoked drivers. Blinding the center, geared set allowed for clearance. Anyone know of a source for spked drivers now?  Thank you. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19833	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]

Hi Jim, I will get them added in the next day. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilt Pacific [4 Attachments]     Chuck, Will you add these different views of the scratch built Pacific I bought and rebuilt to the album.. I see I can't even put the frame on the track right. The leading & trailing truck have to be attached. The motor mounted & the brass bell put on the engine. The headlight and taillight will have rhinestones added and the draw bar and wire to tender attached. Then I will hide on a bottom shelf. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19834	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Nelson and all, I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:51 PM   Steve, you're lucky it's a sturdy beast. Loki must have quite an arm on her. I'm fortunate that any cats I've had left my trains alone, because they would have done a serious time-out if this ever happened. Maybe naming her Loki was just courting trouble. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > All, > > Found my camera, then could not find the locomotive. Ends up that a certain four legged furry one (A cat named for the Norse god of mischief - Loki) managed to knock it off my desk, right to that spot she knocks things into, which is the spot behind the desk that is hard to get to. Cats, gotta love 'em! > > Anyway, the pics show (what is left of) mine now. Seems due to a certain cat, a simple clean out and tune up will now involve repairing the motor brush assembly, main drive rods, and the valve gear (To be fair though, the fireman's side valve gear was repaired once already - it was soldered to the pin, and was broken when I got the engine). > > Runs fairly smooth, but somewhat slow, due to a filthy motor. Plus the running gear and pilot seems largely not original. The pilot (Unpainted) is a Varney part, and I suspect the drive wheels to not be original either. They're not the Bowser wheels for sure, as Bowser used Box Pox drivers, and the Knapp wheels had casting issues. I am sure that if these are the Knapp drivers, that they would be very damaged now from being used as a cat toy! So my bet is they are from some other company. > > Still is a nice locomotive! > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19835	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2

Bowser parts ought to work. I believe they have the tooling for the old John English locomotives anyway. Does Bowser make any spare steam parts still? Last November at TrainFest, someone at the Bowser booth told me that they may make them on a very limited basis, but a lot of that was up in the air. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 7/21/12, lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: From: lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilding John English 4-6-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:47 PM   I am rebuilding my second J.E. 4-6-2. On the first one I used MDC 4-4-2 (12L-2) spoked drivers. Blinding the center, geared set allowed for clearance. Anyone know of a source for spked drivers now? Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19836	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

I've had cats and you have to work with them to have them behave. My cats have always insisted upon a high place to nap near my computer or my layout. What they want is to be comfortable and watch what you are doing. One very good way to cope with this around the layout is to have a tall barstool with a generous seat and perhaps a comfortable pillow on that seat. Tack it down to the chair so that it won't slide off. My cats would take such a perch as their preferred spot, once I introduced it to them. [I've never had more than two cats at a time and a lot of the time it's just one cat.] If I find the cat straining to watch me from that spot, I move the stool to a better spot from the cat's perspective. That keeps the cat in a good spot as far as the cat is concerned and off of the layout. Near the computer are some book shelves. One of those shelves is the cat's spot. One used to lay on top of my 21-inch CRT, but those days are gone. You have to accommodate a cat while also friendly nudging them into the behavior you want from them. You psyche them into complying into behavior that doesn't damage things.......... Literally, they just want to have a comfortable place to see what is going on around them, and around you when they are hanging out with you. That comfortable, high perch of a chair will keep her off of your layout, 99-percent of the time. You can command-encourage her to go to 'her' chair near you with little problem. Picking up the cat from being on the layout while petting her and moving her to her chair followed by a bit more petting as she settles into her chair works well for me. Grumble gently while picking her up from her straying and speak encouragingly to her as she settles into her chair. You might have to move the chair so that the cat can have a good view of whatever you are doing with the layout at the moment. But generally the cat will leap onto her chair and stay there. After she is used to her spot, you can chide and finger wag her into getting off the layout as she might still violate from time time. I've always found I can pat the empty cat chair and 'talk' a cat into getting into her watching spot. Reward petting helps as well. Provide good watching spots for the cat and she'll be rather accommodating, doing what she wants from a place you want her to be. Mike Bauers On Jul 21, 2012, at 8:43 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Nelson and all, > > I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. > > Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19837	From: wdavis5069	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Truck Leaf Springs

You may be correct, but the stamped bronze ones still in the trucks are springs in name only. They certainly do not flex under the 4-5 oz load imposed by a small caboose! I am still holding out for my friend a little longer. He has always come through in the past. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > those sound like they might be cast brass parts, and it sounds like you are > looking for working springs gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: wdavis5069 > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:23 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Truck Leaf Springs > > Thanks to all. I found what I was looking for #31968 Springs, brass leaf, > D&RGW caboose, @ 10 for $2.25. The only drawback is the estimated shipping > is $7.00 (ouch) which makes them almost $1.00 each. I guess I will bite the > bullet and should have a lifetime supply. I do have one possible alternate > and that is a good friend who is sure he has some, if he can find them. > Depends on how long I want to wait.:-) > > Wil > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Don,Those weren't the ones I was thinking. I was thinking part number > > 31968, $2.25 for 10, which is what I have used for HO. But, looking at > > part number 357, they look much nicer. I do agree that $8.00 for 4 of em > > is a bit steep. However, are these for HO? Looking at the ruler, they > > are about 12 or 13 mm, which is about a 1/2 inch. That looks a bit large > > for ho, no? > > > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: don.dellmann@ > > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:22:03 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Truck Leaf Springs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/20/2012 7:05 AM, wdavis5069 wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know of a source for the stamped brass springs that were > > > used in some sprung freight car trucks? I have an older brass caboose > > > that had them installed and one is missing. I can replace the trucks, > > > but would like to keep the originals. I thought I had a few, but all I > > > can find are the coil springs. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Wil > > > > > > > > http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ > > > > > > > > Click on "MISC", then "scratchbuilding supplies and parts", then > > > > "springs", go to the second page. Part number 357 > > > > > > > > They Ain't cheap though! > > > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Don Dellmann > > > > don.dellmann@ > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19838	From: Nelson	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilt Pacific

Jim, I think you're being too hard on yourself. It looks 100% better than it did when it arrived. How was the cab attached, just a lot of solder? How does it run now? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Chuck, > > Will you add these different views of the scratch built > Pacific I bought and rebuilt to the album.. I see I can't even put the > frame on the track right. The leading & trailing truck have to be > attached. The motor mounted & the brass bell put on the engine. The > headlight and taillight will have rhinestones added and the draw bar and > wire to tender attached. Then I will hide on a bottom shelf. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19839	From: Nelson	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Steve, I grew up with cats & dogs and like them both, but don't currently have either My mom has a cat that was given to her as a kitten after her last one died two years ago. It was a nice sentiment, but you should never give a pet as gift. She was wild from the start, and we had to have her completely declawed so that she would stop tearing my mom to shreds. I had quite a few arguments with her about taking her to the pound, something I've never done with an animal before, but my Mom's elderly and the cat wasn't worth it. She wouldn't do it, but fortunately we've managed to calm Mimi down as she's grown up, and she's fairly normal now. Yeah, she named her Mimi, as in screaming. Still, she's pretty rambunctious, and I'm just glad she's not mine. She's learned to use her arms and can deliver a wallop like a little furry prize fighter. I don't even want to think of what she'd do to my collection if she had access to it. Now when she misbehaves, I just mention the name of the local Chinese restaurant... seems to work. ;-) Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Nelson and all, > > I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. > > Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! > > Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. > > She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. > > Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! > > Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19840	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

My last cat was given to me as a birthday gift. The cat was barely larger than my hand and had been born and raised in my sister's backyard. He was so small I would put him on my shoulders to go upstairs to the bedroom with me.Soon he would often leap up and alight on my shoulders even after he grew. Picture shaving when suddenly a cat appears on your shoulders and cranes his head around your neck to watch you....... That put two cats in the house and there were moments like having two cats fight for your lap, while in your lap...... I've had three cats over the last 25 years with no more than two at a time. All were from the shelter or foundlings. Each one has been a very different personality, but they liked me and that was the key. I'm pet-less for the last few years but I'll be getting one or two cats from the shelter a bit later in the year. Two aren bad for a quiet house when you are away at work or whatever. Back in the old family home one of the cats would sleep in the hardshell mountain tunnel. I didn't realize it and ran a train through the mountain. We both were very surprised !!! I never found the cat sleeping in there after that. Years later I was in my own house, with my own cats. I've always been amazed to get home and see the cat[s] run to the door to greet me. Cats aren't supposed to be like that, but they are. It had to be affection on their part, for I would leave food and water out for them to eat as they wished. You know how to tell it's a cold night? That's when the cat sleeps under the quilt on the bed instead of on top of it. Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Nelson wrote: > Steve, I grew up with cats & dogs and like them both, but don't currently have either My mom has a cat that was given to her as a kitten after her last one died two years ago. It was a nice sentiment, but you should never give a pet as gift. She was wild from the start, and we had to have her completely declawed so that she would stop tearing my mom to shreds. I had quite a few arguments with her about taking her to the pound, something I've never done with an animal before, but my Mom's elderly and the cat wasn't worth it. She wouldn't do it, but fortunately we've managed to calm Mimi down as she's grown up, and she's fairly normal now. Yeah, she named her Mimi, as in screaming. > > Still, she's pretty rambunctious, and I'm just glad she's not mine. She's learned to use her arms and can deliver a wallop like a little furry prize fighter. I don't even want to think of what she'd do to my collection if she had access to it. Now when she misbehaves, I just mention the name of the local Chinese restaurant... seems to work. ;-) > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> Nelson and all, >> >> I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. >> >> Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! >> >> Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. >> >> She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. >> >> Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! >> >> Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. >> >> Thanks >> -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19841	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

All these emails about cats is getting rather off topic.  But I figure one more won't kill us or the moderator.   What a dog thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  You must be a god."   What a cat thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  I must be a god."   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2   My last cat was given to me as a birthday gift. The cat was barely larger than my hand and had been born and raised in my sister's backyard. He was so small I would put him on my shoulders to go upstairs to the bedroom with me.Soon he would often leap up and alight on my shoulders even after he grew. Picture shaving when suddenly a cat appears on your shoulders and cranes his head around your neck to watch you....... That put two cats in the house and there were moments like having two cats fight for your lap, while in your lap...... I've had three cats over the last 25 years with no more than two at a time. All were from the shelter or foundlings. Each one has been a very different personality, but they liked me and that was the key. I'm pet-less for the last few years but I'll be getting one or two cats from the shelter a bit later in the year. Two aren bad for a quiet house when you are away at work or whatever. Back in the old family home one of the cats would sleep in the hardshell mountain tunnel. I didn't realize it and ran a train through the mountain. We both were very surprised !!! I never found the cat sleeping in there after that. Years later I was in my own house, with my own cats. I've always been amazed to get home and see the cat[s] run to the door to greet me. Cats aren't supposed to be like that, but they are. It had to be affection on their part, for I would leave food and water out for them to eat as they wished. You know how to tell it's a cold night? That's when the cat sleeps under the quilt on the bed instead of on top of it. Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Nelson wrote: > Steve, I grew up with cats & dogs and like them both, but don't currently have either My mom has a cat that was given to her as a kitten after her last one died two years ago. It was a nice sentiment, but you should never give a pet as gift. She was wild from the start, and we had to have her completely declawed so that she would stop tearing my mom to shreds. I had quite a few arguments with her about taking her to the pound, something I've never done with an animal before, but my Mom's elderly and the cat wasn't worth it. She wouldn't do it, but fortunately we've managed to calm Mimi down as she's grown up, and she's fairly normal now. Yeah, she named her Mimi, as in screaming. > > Still, she's pretty rambunctious, and I'm just glad she's not mine. She's learned to use her arms and can deliver a wallop like a little furry prize fighter. I don't even want to think of what she'd do to my collection if she had access to it. Now when she misbehaves, I just mention the name of the local Chinese restaurant... seems to work. ;-) > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> Nelson and all, >> >> I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. >> >> Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! >> >> Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. >> >> She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. >> >> Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! >> >> Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. >> >> Thanks >> -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19842	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2

Thanks for the tip, I am working with Bowser. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > I am rebuilding my second J.E. 4-6-2. On the first one I used MDC 4-4-2 (12L-2) spoked drivers. Blinding the center, geared set allowed for clearance. Anyone know of a source for spked drivers now? Thank you. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19843	From: willard seehorn	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

Dogs are thrilled we share their lives with them Cats are amazed they share their homes with us Also: Dogs have owners Cats have staff Willard -----Original Message----- From: ckinzer@... Sent: Jul 22, 2012 4:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 All these emails about cats is getting rather off topic.  But I figure one more won't kill us or the moderator.   What a dog thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  You must be a god."   What a cat thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  I must be a god."   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2   My last cat was given to me as a birthday gift. The cat was barely larger than my hand and had been born and raised in my sister's backyard. He was so small I would put him on my shoulders to go upstairs to the bedroom with me.Soon he would often leap up and alight on my shoulders even after he grew. Picture shaving when suddenly a cat appears on your shoulders and cranes his head around your neck to watch you....... That put two cats in the house and there were moments like having two cats fight for your lap, while in your lap...... I've had three cats over the last 25 years with no more than two at a time. All were from the shelter or foundlings. Each one has been a very different personality, but they liked me and that was the key. I'm pet-less for the last few years but I'll be getting one or two cats from the shelter a bit later in the year. Two aren bad for a quiet house when you are away at work or whatever. Back in the old family home one of the cats would sleep in the hardshell mountain tunnel. I didn't realize it and ran a train through the mountain. We both were very surprised !!! I never found the cat sleeping in there after that. Years later I was in my own house, with my own cats. I've always been amazed to get home and see the cat[s] run to the door to greet me. Cats aren't supposed to be like that, but they are. It had to be affection on their part, for I would leave food and water out for them to eat as they wished. You know how to tell it's a cold night? That's when the cat sleeps under the quilt on the bed instead of on top of it. Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Nelson wrote: > Steve, I grew up with cats & dogs and like them both, but don't currently have either My mom has a cat that was given to her as a kitten after her last one died two years ago. It was a nice sentiment, but you should never give a pet as gift. She was wild from the start, and we had to have her completely declawed so that she would stop tearing my mom to shreds. I had quite a few arguments with her about taking her to the pound, something I've never done with an animal before, but my Mom's elderly and the cat wasn't worth it. She wouldn't do it, but fortunately we've managed to calm Mimi down as she's grown up, and she's fairly normal now. Yeah, she named her Mimi, as in screaming. > > Still, she's pretty rambunctious, and I'm just glad she's not mine. She's learned to use her arms and can deliver a wallop like a little furry prize fighter. I don't even want to think of what she'd do to my collection if she had access to it. Now when she misbehaves, I just mention the name of the local Chinese restaurant... seems to work. ;-) > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> Nelson and all, >> >> I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. >> >> Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! >> >> Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. >> >> She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. >> >> Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! >> >> Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. >> >> Thanks >> -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19844	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

All, Touching on  Loki here before the meat of the message here, she only rarely gets onto my layout anymore. When I lived in my last place, I moved in with a different cat, Annie, who I'd had since grade school, and passed away in 2008. Annie was less active at that point, partly blind by then too. Loki came into the picture a year and a half later, and was very curious about her new home. She was abused by a cat hoarder when a kitten. Animal control rescued her and sent her to a shelter, where I got her. Moved to my current apartment, and the windows have large sills that she can sit on and watch me with the trains, or look outside. My workbench is in front of a window, so she can watch me work, too. Now to brass tacks: I'm almost glad now Loki damaged my locomotive. Been taking the whole thing apart, as the motor mount looks to be fabricated from brass. As I've said, the pilot assembly is a Varney part, and the side rods are sure not original, and I have serious doubt about the drive wheels. In other words, much of the running gear is not original. Now I got the plate off the bottom of the frame, that holds the drive wheels in under their axles. Here's where it gets interesting: Just behind the last axle, right where the frame narrows a bit for the trailing truck, there is something engraved into the casting in script. Looks to be cast into the frame. Having a heck of a time reading what it says. Is a five letter word, all told, less than a quarter inch from first letter to last. Almost appears to say "Fritz", but I can't tell. I know it is *rit*, and Fritz is my best guess. Does this make any sense? Have I stumbled upon something that I should give Loki some cat treats now? I tried getting a picture, but can't get one clear enough yet. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 7/22/12, willard seehorn <wseehorn@...> wrote: From: willard seehorn <wseehorn@...> Subject: [vintageHO] cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 6:41 PM   Dogs are thrilled we share their lives with them Cats are amazed they share their homes with us Also: Dogs have owners Cats have staff Willard -----Original Message----- From: ckinzer@... Sent: Jul 22, 2012 4:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 All these emails about cats is getting rather off topic.  But I figure one more won't kill us or the moderator.   What a dog thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  You must be a god."   What a cat thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  I must be a god."   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2   My last cat was given to me as a birthday gift. The cat was barely larger than my hand and had been born and raised in my sister's backyard. He was so small I would put him on my shoulders to go upstairs to the bedroom with me.Soon he would often leap up and alight on my shoulders even after he grew. Picture shaving when suddenly a cat appears on your shoulders and cranes his head around your neck to watch you....... That put two cats in the house and there were moments like having two cats fight for your lap, while in your lap...... I've had three cats over the last 25 years with no more than two at a time. All were from the shelter or foundlings. Each one has been a very different personality, but they liked me and that was the key. I'm pet-less for the last few years but I'll be getting one or two cats from the shelter a bit later in the year. Two aren bad for a quiet house when you are away at work or whatever. Back in the old family home one of the cats would sleep in the hardshell mountain tunnel. I didn't realize it and ran a train through the mountain. We both were very surprised !!! I never found the cat sleeping in there after that. Years later I was in my own house, with my own cats. I've always been amazed to get home and see the cat[s] run to the door to greet me. Cats aren't supposed to be like that, but they are. It had to be affection on their part, for I would leave food and water out for them to eat as they wished. You know how to tell it's a cold night? That's when the cat sleeps under the quilt on the bed instead of on top of it. Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Nelson wrote: > Steve, I grew up with cats & dogs and like them both, but don't currently have either My mom has a cat that was given to her as a kitten after her last one died two years ago. It was a nice sentiment, but you should never give a pet as gift. She was wild from the start, and we had to have her completely declawed so that she would stop tearing my mom to shreds. I had quite a few arguments with her about taking her to the pound, something I've never done with an animal before, but my Mom's elderly and the cat wasn't worth it. She wouldn't do it, but fortunately we've managed to calm Mimi down as she's grown up, and she's fairly normal now. Yeah, she named her Mimi, as in screaming. > > Still, she's pretty rambunctious, and I'm just glad she's not mine. She's learned to use her arms and can deliver a wallop like a little furry prize fighter. I don't even want to think of what she'd do to my collection if she had access to it. Now when she misbehaves, I just mention the name of the local Chinese restaurant... seems to work. ;-) > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> Nelson and all, >> >> I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. >> >> Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! >> >> Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. >> >> She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. >> >> Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! >> >> Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. >> >> Thanks >> -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19845	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

All, One more quick cat story. My cat, named Bullet, loves railroading. When I go under the layout to work on the wiring he climbs up on my chest and bats at the wiring. Checking for poor solder joints, I suppose. He use to walk the track, checking for spiders, but since I changed to DCC he doesn't seem to do that as much any more. Maybe the constant voltage on the rails gives him tingles in his feet. He still sits on the floor and watches every train that passes. The only time he has ever damaged anything was a thin fiber optic strand that ran from a camera flash unit under the railroad up the leg of an HO photographer and into the rear of the HO camera. (The women folk really love it). He decided he had to test the fiber optic for strength and the fiber lost. I have since re-built it. He's getting pretty old now, and a lot slower. I like the idea of a special padded stool for him to observe everything from. I'll have to do that. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19846	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] seeing tiny stuff….. was cats, was: Re: Bowser-Kna

About that tiny lettering... About a year ago I got one of these for about $35 at my LHS, Greenfield News and Hobby. http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480O While I don't use it too often, it's handy for checking if a tool is chipped or just what the heck any tiny lettering might be. Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > All, > > Touching on Loki here before the meat of the message here, she only rarely gets onto my layout anymore. When I lived in my last place, I moved in with a different cat, Annie, who I'd had since grade school, and passed away in 2008. Annie was less active at that point, partly blind by then too. Loki came into the picture a year and a half later, and was very curious about her new home. She was abused by a cat hoarder when a kitten. Animal control rescued her and sent her to a shelter, where I got her. > > Moved to my current apartment, and the windows have large sills that she can sit on and watch me with the trains, or look outside. My workbench is in front of a window, so she can watch me work, too. > > Now to brass tacks: I'm almost glad now Loki damaged my locomotive. Been taking the whole thing apart, as the motor mount looks to be fabricated from brass. As I've said, the pilot assembly is a Varney part, and the side rods are sure not original, and I have serious doubt about the drive wheels. In other words, much of the running gear is not original. > > Now I got the plate off the bottom of the frame, that holds the drive wheels in under their axles. Here's where it gets interesting: > > Just behind the last axle, right where the frame narrows a bit for the trailing truck, there is something engraved into the casting in script. Looks to be cast into the frame. Having a heck of a time reading what it says. Is a five letter word, all told, less than a quarter inch from first letter to last. Almost appears to say "Fritz", but I can't tell. I know it is *rit*, and Fritz is my best guess. > > Does this make any sense? Have I stumbled upon something that I should give Loki some cat treats now? > > I tried getting a picture, but can't get one clear enough yet. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19847	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Re: cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2

-- I had one of those loco's it also said FRITZ in that location my guess it was the pattern makers ID. Roger Aultman -- Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: ============= All, Touching on  Loki here before the meat of the message here, she only rarely gets onto my layout anymore. When I lived in my last place, I moved in with a different cat, Annie, who I'd had since grade school, and passed away in 2008. Annie was less active at that point, partly blind by then too. Loki came into the picture a year and a half later, and was very curious about her new home. She was abused by a cat hoarder when a kitten. Animal control rescued her and sent her to a shelter, where I got her. Moved to my current apartment, and the windows have large sills that she can sit on and watch me with the trains, or look outside. My workbench is in front of a window, so she can watch me work, too. Now to brass tacks: I'm almost glad now Loki damaged my locomotive. Been taking the whole thing apart, as the motor mount looks to be fabricated from brass. As I've said, the pilot assembly is a Varney part, and the side rods are sure not original, and I have serious doubt about the drive wheels. In other words, much of the running gear is not original. Now I got the plate off the bottom of the frame, that holds the drive wheels in under their axles. Here's where it gets interesting: Just behind the last axle, right where the frame narrows a bit for the trailing truck, there is something engraved into the casting in script. Looks to be cast into the frame. Having a heck of a time reading what it says. Is a five letter word, all told, less than a quarter inch from first letter to last. Almost appears to say "Fritz", but I can't tell. I know it is *rit*, and Fritz is my best guess. Does this make any sense? Have I stumbled upon something that I should give Loki some cat treats now? I tried getting a picture, but can't get one clear enough yet. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 7/22/12, willard seehorn <wseehorn@...> wrote: From: willard seehorn <wseehorn@...> Subject: [vintageHO] cats, was: Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 6:41 PM   Dogs are thrilled we share their lives with them Cats are amazed they share their homes with us Also: Dogs have owners Cats have staff Willard -----Original Message----- From: ckinzer@... Sent: Jul 22, 2012 4:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2 All these emails about cats is getting rather off topic.  But I figure one more won't kill us or the moderator.   What a dog thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  You must be a god."   What a cat thinks:  "You pet me, feed me, play with me, and give me a warm place to sleep.  I must be a god."   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bowser-Knapp 4-8-2   My last cat was given to me as a birthday gift. The cat was barely larger than my hand and had been born and raised in my sister's backyard. He was so small I would put him on my shoulders to go upstairs to the bedroom with me.Soon he would often leap up and alight on my shoulders even after he grew. Picture shaving when suddenly a cat appears on your shoulders and cranes his head around your neck to watch you....... That put two cats in the house and there were moments like having two cats fight for your lap, while in your lap...... I've had three cats over the last 25 years with no more than two at a time. All were from the shelter or foundlings. Each one has been a very different personality, but they liked me and that was the key. I'm pet-less for the last few years but I'll be getting one or two cats from the shelter a bit later in the year. Two aren bad for a quiet house when you are away at work or whatever. Back in the old family home one of the cats would sleep in the hardshell mountain tunnel. I didn't realize it and ran a train through the mountain. We both were very surprised !!! I never found the cat sleeping in there after that. Years later I was in my own house, with my own cats. I've always been amazed to get home and see the cat[s] run to the door to greet me. Cats aren't supposed to be like that, but they are. It had to be affection on their part, for I would leave food and water out for them to eat as they wished. You know how to tell it's a cold night? That's when the cat sleeps under the quilt on the bed instead of on top of it. Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Nelson wrote: > Steve, I grew up with cats & dogs and like them both, but don't currently have either My mom has a cat that was given to her as a kitten after her last one died two years ago. It was a nice sentiment, but you should never give a pet as gift. She was wild from the start, and we had to have her completely declawed so that she would stop tearing my mom to shreds. I had quite a few arguments with her about taking her to the pound, something I've never done with an animal before, but my Mom's elderly and the cat wasn't worth it. She wouldn't do it, but fortunately we've managed to calm Mimi down as she's grown up, and she's fairly normal now. Yeah, she named her Mimi, as in screaming. > > Still, she's pretty rambunctious, and I'm just glad she's not mine. She's learned to use her arms and can deliver a wallop like a little furry prize fighter. I don't even want to think of what she'd do to my collection if she had access to it. Now when she misbehaves, I just mention the name of the local Chinese restaurant... seems to work. ;-) > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> Nelson and all, >> >> I got Loki from a shelter, she already had that name when I got her. Wasn't till I'd had her a while that someone told me what the name meant. >> >> Figure that when I first got her, I was living elsewhere in town. She found a corner of my layout then to use as a bed. She slept by the track, but not on it, so I figured I would "buzz" her with a set of old belt drive diesels. Didn't work. She just swatted them off the line! >> >> Yes, she has strong arms! When it came time to move in June 2010, it took me and one other to get her into her cage to move her to the new place! She probably thought she was going back to the shelter or something. >> >> She's been after my trains a bit lately. This is the first weekend in the past six weeks that I have been home, due to weekend trips to northern Wisconsin. I think she is expressing her displeasure of being alone for a couple nights. >> >> Generally, she only plays with a couple N scale box car bodies that I stripped pretty bare, when she "plays trains". Found giving her a couple scrap carbodies keeps her away from the good stuff usually. Plus she has tons of cat toys. I guess my toys look more fun to her! >> >> Did find a couple spare rods that may work to repair the broken ones today. At least it's a start. >> >> Thanks >> -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19848	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2

Greenway products has several driver syles and sizes      Alan From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilding John English 4-6-2   Bowser has spoked drivers of all sizes. Listed on line. Look for Bowser HO parts--not Cal Scale or Selley. Art W   In a message dated 7/21/2012 8:07:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lewis.ted16@... writes: I am rebuilding my second J.E. 4-6-2. On the first one I used MDC 4-4-2 (12L-2) spoked drivers. Blinding the center, geared set allowed for clearance. Anyone know of a source for spked drivers now?  Thank you. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19849	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: LaBelle Caboose bash into a Drover Style Caboose

Ever wonder what it takes to build a LaBelle Caboose?  Check out the latest build to come out of the California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild Shops.  This versatile piece of equipment might be just the thing for your short line railroad.  I also show a image of one of the vintage LaBelle catalogs from the early 1970's as well as the back cover. Your comments are always appreciated and welcome. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19850	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: LaBelle Caboose bash into a Drover Style Caboose

Denny,        Enjoyed reading your rebuild with the narrative and the pictorial. Nice job.                                           Jim H On 7/23/2012 3:08 PM, cwrailman wrote:   Ever wonder what it takes to build a LaBelle Caboose?  Check out the latest build to come out of the California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild Shops.  This versatile piece of equipment might be just the thing for your short line railroad.  I also show a image of one of the vintage LaBelle catalogs from the early 1970's as well as the back cover. Your comments are always appreciated and welcome. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19851	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Close to finished

Attachments : IMG_8285.JPG IMG_8282.JPG Since I was able to mount motor and get engine running I put the bell on and installed rhinestones for headlight. Easier to put rhinestones in then try to wire. Tender wasn't open and my shaking hands don't help with fine wiring in tight places.I also got the trailing truck on the engine. Got draw bar mounted on tender and have electrical connection ready so there is little to do. I do have to create a weight for inside the boiler as none was in it when I got it. Now I have to pick out decals for it from what I have here. Very close to finished. Amen. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19852	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Rebuilding John English 4-6-2

Alan, Greenway Products is an excellent source for replacing drivers on imported locomotives which use a 3mm axle diameter, but unfortunately American built models like the John English use 1/8" axle diameters. They are not compatible unless you are a machinist and can equip the model with bearings. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: > > Greenway products has several driver syles and sizes >      Alan > > > ________________________________ > From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilding John English 4-6-2 > > > >   > > Bowser has spoked drivers of all sizes. Listed on line. Look for > Bowser HO parts--not Cal Scale or Selley. > Art W > > In a message dated 7/21/2012 8:07:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lewis.ted16@... writes: > I am rebuilding my second J.E. 4-6-2. On the first one I used MDC 4-4-2 (12L-2) spoked drivers. Blinding the center, geared set allowed for clearance. Anyone know of a source for spked drivers now?  Thank you. > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join > >    (Yahoo! ID > required) > > > >    > vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19853	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: International models / Tenshodo mystery

Attachments : Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass & Diecast Steam Locomotive 002.JPG AC_version.jpg 7626391870_203ff08fbd_b.jpg 008.JPG Hi guys, I am seeking information. I am trying to put to rest a debate I have had with different people at different times. This is some background information: I believe this locomotive is a Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass & Diecast Steam Locomotive. Very early import. Was the first of their models to be imported before all other brass and was imported by International Models and show up in their 1954 catalog: http://hoseeker.net/internationalmodelinc/internationalcatalog1954pg02.jpg There were two versions, an AC model and the later models have a DC motor which required additional space to be added to the tops of the saddle tanks. The earlier version does not need this space to fit the shorter AC motor. They were never published in any Tenshodo catalog. The AC model and DC model exact in every detail but the motor, reverse switch and the space between the top of the side tank and the top row of rivets. - The DC model space is twice that of the AC models. On some of the models I have a clear mold line is present in the middle of this space, indicating the top of the tank was removed and extra material was added to the shell to allow for the taller DC motor. If the DC model was first, then the space between the rivets and the outside edges of the tanks would be a consistent width all the way around the tank. The AC version is ultra rare. The only one I have ever sold, sold for over $200. I saw one in kit form with all the parts, box and instructions sold for ~$500 to Hiroshi below and was sold by someone else. I have two complete AC engines that I plan to restore shortly. This later DC model typically sells for $75 to $110 on eBay, however the last one I sold went for for ~$183 to another gent in Japan. Here is my photo set: Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass &... The as far as I can find, the AC model was never offered for sale on the American market. The AC model is extremely rare and accounts for ~1 out of every 10 DC models on eBay. The Japanese fellow who supplied me with the information I have told me as a boy, he was not able to buy the locomotive because it was not available for sale in Japan. This must have been the DC version as the AC version was clearly offered at some point to Japan as can be seen in the attached ad. I was wondering the likelihood that International Models would have done any of the design and or tooling of the model or would they have just purchased a bunch of them and brought them over to the US to sell without having anything to do with the design? Was International an American based company? This ad shows the AC model, and was sent to me by Hiroshi. It is written in Japanese and I do not know how to read Japanese.  This was an email sent to me several years ago by a older Japanese man in Japan that purchased several of these locomotives. He said the locos were produced by Tenshodo but were not sold on the Japanese market. If Tenshodo supplied exclusively to International at the time, it is easy to see why they would not be permitted to sell to anyone in in Japan. My theory is, if a Japanese man buys 4 of them off of me and pays with shipping almost $200 for each and spends another $500 for another one that is in kit form from someone else, I am inclined to believe he knows what he is buying (as well as do a few others out there since they bid it up) and to take his word that these are Tenshodo made. Since then I have sold 6-7 more and every one but one went back to Japan at a selling price of over $100. quote: Sean, Yours is the later version of the Tenshodo's first 0-6-0. The later version uses tall DC motor and therefore side water tank receives remodeling to accommodate it. This type is VERY popular and I have more than ten. The one I won today is AC version and original side tank. This is extremely rare and I sighted only twice at eBay. (I have one, but slightly not original) It is simple. Hiroshi   I also sent the Tenshodo HO model train department an email request today, seeking information on it. I included with it links to the photographs and the flyer. I guess I will wait and see what I hear. Any comments or information welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19854	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: International models / Tenshodo mystery

Sean, Some years ago I sold three small brass loco's through Ebay to a guy in Japan .  He bought them individually over a period of about 6 months.  These were small brass loco's that were originally sold by Ken Kidder and International and were not too popular here in the US .  They were not well detailed and did not run very well.  After the last sale I asked him why he was so interested in buying those models and he said it was because his grandfather had been one of the people who had assembled the models which were not sold in Japan .  This grandson was now in a financial position to buy some of the models his grandfather had worked on and that was why he wanted them.  This happened about four or five years ago.  I am not saying that is what you are experiencing but you might consider it.  In fact it might just be the same guy. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > I am seeking information. I am trying to put to rest a debate I have had with different people at different times. This is some background information: > > I believe this locomotive is a Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass & Diecast Steam Locomotive. Very early import. Was the first of their models to be imported before all > other brass and was imported by International Models and show up in their 1954 catalog: > > http://hoseeker.net/internationalmodelinc/internationalcatalog1954pg02.jpg > > There were two versions, an AC model and the later models have a DC motor which required > additional space to be added to the tops of the saddle tanks. The earlier version does not need this space to fit the shorter AC motor. They were never published in any Tenshodo catalog. The AC model and DC model exact in every detail but the motor, reverse switch and the space between the top of the side tank and the top row of > rivets. - The DC model space is twice that of the AC models. On some > of the models I have a clear mold line is present in the middle of this > space, indicating the top of the tank was removed and extra material was added to the shell to allow for the taller DC motor. If the DC model > was first, then the space between the rivets and the outside edges of > the tanks would be a consistent width all the way around the tank. > > The AC version is ultra rare. The only > one I have ever sold, sold for over $200. I saw one in kit form with all > the parts, box and instructions sold for ~$500 to Hiroshi below and was sold by someone else. I have two complete AC engines that I plan > to restore shortly. This later DC model typically sells for $75 to $110 on > eBay, however the last one I sold went for for ~$183 to another gent in Japan. > > Here is my photo set: > > > Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass &... > The as far as I can find, the AC model was never > offered for sale on the American market. The AC model is extremely rare > and accounts for ~1 out of every 10 DC models on eBay. The Japanese > fellow who supplied me with the information I have told me as a boy, he > was not able to buy the locomotive because it was not available for sale in Japan. This must have been the DC version as the AC version was > clearly offered at some point to Japan as can be seen in the attached > ad. > > I was wondering the likelihood that International Models would have done any of the design and or tooling of the model or would they have just purchased a bunch of them and brought them over to the US to sell without having anything to do with the design? > > Was International an American based company? > > This ad shows the AC model, and was sent to me by Hiroshi. It is written in Japanese and I do not know how to read Japanese.  > > > This was an email sent to me several years ago by a older Japanese man in Japan that purchased several of these locomotives. He said the locos were produced by Tenshodo but were not > sold on the Japanese market. If Tenshodo supplied exclusively to > International at the time, it is easy to see why they would not be > permitted to sell to anyone in in Japan. My theory is, if a Japanese man buys 4 of them off of me and pays > with shipping almost $200 for each and spends another $500 for another one that > is in kit form from someone else, I am inclined to believe he knows what he is buying (as well as do a few others out there since they bid it up) and to take his word that these are Tenshodo made. > Since then I have sold 6-7 more and every one but one went back to Japan at a selling price of over $100. > > quote: > > Sean, > Yours is the later version of the Tenshodo's first 0-6-0. > The later version uses tall DC motor and therefore side water tank receives remodeling to accommodate it. > This type is VERY popular and I have more than ten. > > The one I won today is AC version and original side tank. > This is extremely rare and I sighted only twice at eBay. > (I have one, but slightly not original) > > It is simple. > > Hiroshi >   > > I also sent the Tenshodo HO model train department an email > request today, seeking information on it. I included with it links to the photographs > and the flyer. I guess I will wait and see what I hear. > > > Any comments or information welcome! > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19855	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: International models / Tenshodo mystery [4 Attachments]

Attachments : brass_b_electric_2.jpg brass_b_electric_1.jpg Sean and all, I picked this little locomotive up a while back on eBay. Came with a bunch of other vintage locomotives. Has an AC motor inside and one powered axle. Mostly screwdriver assembly, with the only soldering being the hoods and a couple places on the cab. The frame seems to be a bit of a bear to get aligned right; I tried, but am constantly adjusting one or more screw! Reminds me of the old electric steeplecabs. An electric freight company in Iowa still uses old GE steeplecabs. Growing up in Davenport, my dad sometimes would take me on a road trip to see the old electric locomotives. Wouldn't mind building a short interurban line on my layout, and using this and a couple other electric locos (Including the Castor Plastic B-1). Would have to convert it to DC operation. Could either install a rectifier, or just remotor it, and make it 4 wheel drive besides. As it is, it is a shelf piece, and if rare, I will not modify it. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 7/23/12, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] International models / Tenshodo mystery [4 Attachments] To: "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>, "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>, "brasscollectors@yahoogroups.com" <brasscollectors@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, July 23, 2012, 10:04 PM   Hi guys, I am seeking information. I am trying to put to rest a debate I have had with different people at different times. This is some background information: I believe this locomotive is a Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass & Diecast Steam Locomotive. Very early import. Was the first of their models to be imported before all other brass and was imported by International Models and show up in their 1954 catalog: http://hoseeker.net/internationalmodelinc/internationalcatalog1954pg02.jpg There were two versions, an AC model and the later models have a DC motor which required additional space to be added to the tops of the saddle tanks. The earlier version does not need this space to fit the shorter AC motor. They were never published in any Tenshodo catalog. The AC model and DC model exact in every detail but the motor, reverse switch and the space between the top of the side tank and the top row of rivets. - The DC model space is twice that of the AC models. On some of the models I have a clear mold line is present in the middle of this space, indicating the top of the tank was removed and extra material was added to the shell to allow for the taller DC motor. If the DC model was first, then the space between the rivets and the outside edges of the tanks would be a consistent width all the way around the tank. The AC version is ultra rare. The only one I have ever sold, sold for over $200. I saw one in kit form with all the parts, box and instructions sold for ~$500 to Hiroshi below and was sold by someone else. I have two complete AC engines that I plan to restore shortly. This later DC model typically sells for $75 to $110 on eBay, however the last one I sold went for for ~$183 to another gent in Japan. Here is my photo set: Tenshodo 0-6-0 Brass &... The as far as I can find, the AC model was never offered for sale on the American market. The AC model is extremely rare and accounts for ~1 out of every 10 DC models on eBay. The Japanese fellow who supplied me with the information I have told me as a boy, he was not able to buy the locomotive because it was not available for sale in Japan. This must have been the DC version as the AC version was clearly offered at some point to Japan as can be seen in the attached ad. I was wondering the likelihood that International Models would have done any of the design and or tooling of the model or would they have just purchased a bunch of them and brought them over to the US to sell without having anything to do with the design? Was International an American based company? This ad shows the AC model, and was sent to me by Hiroshi. It is written in Japanese and I do not know how to read Japanese.  This was an email sent to me several years ago by a older Japanese man in Japan that purchased several of these locomotives. He said the locos were produced by Tenshodo but were not sold on the Japanese market. If Tenshodo supplied exclusively to International at the time, it is easy to see why they would not be permitted to sell to anyone in in Japan. My theory is, if a Japanese man buys 4 of them off of me and pays with shipping almost $200 for each and spends another $500 for another one that is in kit form from someone else, I am inclined to believe he knows what he is buying (as well as do a few others out there since they bid it up) and to take his word that these are Tenshodo made. Since then I have sold 6-7 more and every one but one went back to Japan at a selling price of over $100. quote: Sean, Yours is the later version of the Tenshodo's first 0-6-0. The later version uses tall DC motor and therefore side water tank receives remodeling to accommodate it. This type is VERY popular and I have more than ten. The one I won today is AC version and original side tank. This is extremely rare and I sighted only twice at eBay. (I have one, but slightly not original) It is simple. Hiroshi   I also sent the Tenshodo HO model train department an email request today, seeking information on it. I included with it links to the photographs and the flyer. I guess I will wait and see what I hear. Any comments or information welcome! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19856	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Hexed Pacific

Attachments : IMG_8290.JPG IMG_8287.JPG I'm beginning to think this scratch built Pacific has a hex attached to it. While assembling the boiler to the frame a small piece of valve gear ( think it's called a valve rod and goes in the top hole of the cylinder saddle. Picture 2 ) came off. No way to get at it except to take engine apart and disassemble valve gear to put it back on. I tried to get it back on with taking apart and after a number of tries I gave up. I also noticed that one of the ribs on top of the cab roof cane off. It looks like it had been glued on. I will try to get it back on tomorrow and will probably mess the roof up. But I'm learning that just because everything looks alright and runs good I will be checking things more closely. Well at least I have a great looking tender with detail. I will put some decals on but don't know what. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19857	From: gary pardue	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific [2 Attachments]

Jim, I have followed your rebuild with great interest and enjoyment. I wish no one any bad luck, however, I am glad to hear someone else has my kind of luck on construction. I have been three weeks off and on trying to build a Jordan Minature steamshovel. I keep getting everything backwards and half built to find I left out something or put it on wrong. I finally finished it today except for stringing the rigging. Who knows what that chore will hold in "HEXES"!!!!!!!!! Best of luck on your next project and it is much anticipated by me to follow your progress posted here. Gary Pardue --- On Tue, 7/24/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Hexed Pacific [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 3:34 PM   I'm beginning to think this scratch built Pacific has a hex attached to it. While assembling the boiler to the frame a small piece of valve gear ( think it's called a valve rod and goes in the top hole of the cylinder saddle. Picture 2 ) came off. No way to get at it except to take engine apart and disassemble valve gear to put it back on. I tried to get it back on with taking apart and after a number of tries I gave up. I also noticed that one of the ribs on top of the cab roof cane off. It looks like it had been glued on. I will try to get it back on tomorrow and will probably mess the roof up. But I'm learning that just because everything looks alright and runs good I will be checking things more closely. Well at least I have a great looking tender with detail. I will put some decals on but don't know what. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19858	From: Larry	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific [2 Attachments]

Skull and cross bones decal on the cab should do it... Larry Miller III From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hexed Pacific [2 Attachments] <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]           I'm beginning to think this scratch built Pacific has a hex attached to it. While assembling the boiler to the frame a small piece of valve gear ( think it's called a valve rod and goes in the top hole of the cylinder saddle. Picture 2 ) came off. No way to get at it except to take engine apart and disassemble valve gear to put it back on. I tried to get it back on with taking apart and after a number of tries I gave up. I also noticed that one of the ribs on top of the cab roof cane off. It looks like it had been glued on. I will try to get it back on tomorrow and will probably mess the roof up. But I'm learning that just because everything looks alright and runs good I will be checking things more closely. Well at least I have a great looking tender with detail. I will put some decals on but don't know what.                                   Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 2 of 2 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/172152040/item/list   <*> IMG_8287.JPG   <*> IMG_8290.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19859	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific

Not really surprising, Jim. Everything depends on the original builder's skill and assembly techniques, and given the iffy assembly job this is to be expected. A popped rivet and broken glue joint aren't too bad considering all that. Both loco and tender look great, and I didn't expect them to look this good when I saw what you had to start with. I think it's a cool piece. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > I'm beginning to think this scratch built Pacific has a hex > attached to it. While assembling the boiler to the frame a small piece > of valve gear ( think it's called a valve rod and goes in the top hole > of the cylinder saddle. Picture 2 ) came off. No way to get at it except > to take engine apart and disassemble valve gear to put it back on. I > tried to get it back on with taking apart and after a number of tries I > gave up. I also noticed that one of the ribs on top of the cab roof cane > off. It looks like it had been glued on. I will try to get it back on > tomorrow and will probably mess the roof up. But I'm learning that just > because everything looks alright and runs good I will be checking things > more closely. Well at least I have a great looking tender with detail. I > will put some decals on but don't know what. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19860	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/25/2012
Subject: Fwd: Finished

Attachments : IMG_8306.JPG IMG_8305_1.JPG Since I had Norfolk & Western decals here I put them on the Pacific I tried to save. I don't think I'll be doing much more decalling especially smaller ones like coal in tons and gallons of water tender can hold. Use to be no problem to do it. My fingers don't want to work ( shake ) to put them on. I also noticed the ern of Western goes slightly up a 1/16 ". Finally I must drill two new holes in back to lower the cab 1/16" to maybe an 1/8". Have to find a new rebuild project soon and forget this one. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19861	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hexed Pacific

Jim and all, Congratulations on your completed project. Looks great. I just got one of these Pacifics in an estate collection. It's a true basket case, or rather cigar box case. Looks like it's missing the lead truck and perhaps the stack. If anyone is interested in it, contact me off list. I think it could be restored, but I'm not interested. I got a Cary light Mikado boiler casting and a Mantua Mikado in the same collection along with the Cary detail parts. That is a model I always wanted, so I will concentrate on building that instead. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19862	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Switch Picture

Attachments : IMG_8312_1.JPG Chuck H, I wonder if you could take this picture and switch it with the picture that said finished. I was able to lower the cab so that the number doesn't look like an angle as bad. Thanks Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19863	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Switch Picture [1 Attachment]

Jim,   OK, I see what you mean.  It will be loaded soon.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 4:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Switch Picture [1 Attachment]     Chuck H, I wonder if you could take this picture and switch it with the picture that said finished. I was able to lower the cab so that the number doesn't look like an angle as bad. Thanks Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19864	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/27/2012
Subject: Need Info

Years ago I would buy a solvent for decals from Champ ( I think it was ). I also would buy little bottles of a bubble remover that you put down before applying decals. When dry you the used the solvent to snuggle down the decal. Is Champ out of business ? I've been using Walthers Solvaset but sometimes have trouble with bubbles under the decal. I don't apply many decals anymore because most of the engines I work on now were vintage kits that and I clean any paint off so I want to show what they are made of. I hardly paint items other then my fantasy engines like my 4-4-4-2 Beast I redesigned and rebuilt. I didn't decal it yet since I don't have the right supplies here. I do favor Micro Scale decals but just Solvaset not always enough. Does any one know a similar product like Champ had for removing bubbles ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19865	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/27/2012
Subject: Re: Need Info

Hi Jim, Yep Champ went out of business a while ago.  That is really sad for a lot of us.  You can use Micro-Set for a decal setting solution, which helps keep bubbles from happening.  It is laid down on the surface and the decal is laid on top of it.  But, be careful and don't move the decal much.  Afterwards, you can use either Micro-sol or Walthers Solvaset, depending on the decal thickness. I did learn something about Walthers Solvaset.  In the old days, the original Walthers Solvaset was very potent and wrinkled the decals, but then they ended up almost melting into the surface and I got no bubbles or anything.  A very light coating of Testors Dullcoat made the decal pretty much diappear.  The NEW Walthers Solvaset is not as potent and at first it appeared like it wasn't even touching the decals.  Someone told me to put a little bit in an teaspoon or something and let it sit for an hour or so and let some of the H2O evaporate. When you do that it works just like the old Walthers Solvaset.  If you are using Micro Scale deals, i would use their products; Micro Set and Micro Sol.  If you are using other decals, I would also use Walthers Solvaset. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:39:59 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Need Info   Years ago I would buy a solvent for decals from Champ ( I think it was ). I also would buy little bottles of a bubble remover that you put down before applying decals. When dry you the used the solvent to snuggle down the decal. Is Champ out of business ? I've been using Walthers Solvaset but sometimes have trouble with bubbles under the decal. I don't apply many decals anymore because most of the engines I work on now were vintage kits that and I clean any paint off so I want to show what they are made of. I hardly paint items other then my fantasy engines like my 4-4-4-2 Beast I redesigned and rebuilt. I didn't decal it yet since I don't have the right supplies here. I do favor Micro Scale decals but just Solvaset not always enough. Does any one know a similar product like Champ had for removing bubbles ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19866	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/28/2012
Subject: Thank You

> > > I want to say thank you to all who suggested what to use with > decals. My son in Lebanon PA is going to a Hobby Shop there to get me > bottles of Micro-Set and Micro -Sol which would be an hour plus drive. > Have no shops close. > > Now I must start looking for a new project to work on. Hopefully > one that I need for my vintage collection but would bid on a long term > project of some kind. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19867	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Need ID help

Attachments : IMG_8327.JPG IMG_8326.JPG IMG_8324.JPG IMG_8322.JPG IMG_8320.JPG I need help to identify this CAST Brass or Bronze Engine ( Body only, no paperwork ) with some sheet brass details soldered on roof. Will describe as best I can plus lots of pictures. I bought off eBay a while back and have never found out who made. Due to construction I believe made by some company. The body, cab/nose and the back are cast Brass / Bronze. The body and the cab nose are single parts that are soldered together. The back piece is about a 1/4" thick ( last two pictures show this ). Also shows areas machined out for attaching trucks/drive/ etc. with pre drilled and tapped holes. The fuel tanks are cast and are soldered to the side pieces which in turn are screwed onto the body. The 4 ladders, one missing must be soldered on but could be part of the casting. My eyes can't tell. The nose of the body, 4th picture down, show good detail with double lights with lenses already present. The pilot is separate and screwed on. The silver/chrome piece just above the pilot is a separate part and the screw must go through the pilot, the fancy trim and into the body. The cab/nose is soldered to the body behind the first window. The brass screens are soldered in place. The window behind the front door seems to be odd. ( first picture ). The raised square and two rectangles on the roof are part of the casting. The little stacks and exhaust are single pieces soldered in place. Described everything the best I can. Have tried to match the body with pictures, ads but mostly Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Vol. II. Nothing matches up totally especially that little window behind the front doors. I'm sure it's an E unit, maybe a 7 ? But what one I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it is a manufactured kit that you do a little assemble. Everything is a guess right now. Does anyone have any ideas? Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19868	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Need ID help

Attachments : IMG_8327-19868.JPG IMG_8326-19868.JPG IMG_8325.JPG IMG_8324-19868.JPG IMG_8322-19868.JPG Sending pictures again as one picture didn't go through of the nose. I need help to identify this CAST Brass or Bronze Engine ( Body only, no paperwork ) with some sheet brass details soldered on roof. Will describe as best I can plus lots of pictures. I bought off eBay a while back and have never found out who made. Due to construction I believe made by some company. The body, cab/nose and the back are cast Brass / Bronze. The body and the cab nose are single parts that are soldered together. The back piece is about a 1/4" thick ( last two pictures show this ). Also shows areas machined out for attaching trucks/drive/ etc. with pre drilled and tapped holes. The fuel tanks are cast and are soldered to the side pieces which in turn are screwed onto the body. The 4 ladders, one missing must be soldered on but could be part of the casting. My eyes can't tell. The nose of the body, 4th picture down, show good detail with double lights with lenses already present. The pilot is separate and screwed on. The silver/chrome piece just above the pilot is a separate part and the screw must go through the pilot, the fancy trim and into the body. The cab/nose is soldered to the body behind the first window. The brass screens are soldered in place. The window behind the front door seems to be odd. ( first picture ). The raised square and two rectangles on the roof are part of the casting. The little stacks and exhaust are single pieces soldered in place. Described everything the best I can. Have tried to match the body with pictures, ads but mostly Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Vol. II. Nothing matches up totally especially that little window behind the front doors. I'm sure it's an E unit, maybe a 7 ? But what one I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it is a manufactured kit that you do a little assemble. Everything is a guess right now. Does anyone have any ideas? Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19869	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 gear info

Over the weekend at a local swap I acquired one of the gear driven Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2.  I have gone through some of the historic posts and got some interesting information ion this model and its variations thank you all.  I need to change the both the brass and fiber main drive gears, and am wondering if anyone has replaced the gears with sets from NWSL and if so, which did you use? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19870	From: Brad Smith	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 gear info

I love that engine. I replaced the motor with a Sagami can and flywheel, but kept the original gears. One thing you could do is to look at the NWSL gearboxes. I installed one in an Athearn Hustler and it runs fine. Sagami motors  can be had on EBay. Brad Smith Franklin WI Sent from my iPod

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19871	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Need Info

Jim I still use Walthers Solvaset, and it works pretty good. Microscale makes MicroSol, and it seems like a milder form of Solvaset. A trick: get a good old fashioned light bulb (not flourescent) and put it a few inches away from the setting decal until it dries after applying the solvaset or equivalent. It will allow the stuff to work better, and the decal usually dries very flat. And also only takes about 20 minutes. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19872	From: RalphB	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > I need help to identify this CAST Brass or Bronze Engine...with some sheet brass details soldered on roof. > The window behind the > front door seems to be odd.I'm sure it's an E unit, maybe a 7? ------------------ Jim, I can't help much with the model manufacturer, but I think it could've been done as early as 1937 when the prototype was built. What I can tell you is that it could be either an EA, which was built only for the B&O, or an E-1, built only for the Santa Fe. The headlight is wrong, although one or both models could've been changed during their service lives. Here are links to photos of the prototype: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=130958&nseq=3 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fPiliQ0G3Bk/Tbipm3QOIbI/AAAAAAAADQg/Uqm4hZn4_Jg/s1600/e1-4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://goawaygarage.blogspot.com/2011/04/some-more-locomotives-youll-probably.html&h=398&w=640&sz=66&tbnid=qy_D6lGKHmQmKM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=145&prev=/search%3Fq%3Demd%2Be-1%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=emd+e-1&usg=__d-aMHIqV43acqIIh0O2TTZU_ThQ=&docid=N48TCp85rJkWJM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vIoWUMvaA6i56wHty4D4CA&ved=0CHQQ9QEwBA&dur=60 Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19873	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 gear info

Thanks for the info Brad, Actually I already have the new motor issue worked out but the gears need replacing.  This will be featured in the projects section of my WEB site once the project is completed.  I had the new motor installed and the little guy running but the bottom fiber gear is badly chipped and the entire gear system growls like a coffee grinder.  So new gears are in order.  I just thought I would check with everybody before I head to NWSL for their input.  I am also concerned about that bottom shaft being bent.  It looks like someone may have tried to pry the bottom gear off hence the chipping and I am wondering if  that bottom shaft might be bent a little.  I will know more about that later. By the way, when I lived in the Chicago area I always attended the conventions you guys put on.  The Regional and Divisional NMRA conventions you guys hosted were great and of course the 50th Anniversary set a new standard. That was a blast!  I could not make it back there for the last big one.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote: > > I love that engine. I replaced the motor with a Sagami can and flywheel, but kept the original gears. > > One thing you could do is to look at the NWSL gearboxes. I installed one in an Athearn Hustler and it runs fine. Sagami motors can be had on EBay. > > Brad Smith > Franklin WI > > Sent from my iPod > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19874	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts

I have just found out that I will need at least one and preferably 2 of the geared axles for this Penn Line Witcomb Diesel.  Does anybody have at least one and maybe 2 of them they are willing to sell? It seems that a previous owner dinged them when reassembling the drive unit.  With a little file work I was able to get one of them to work O K but the other one is really messed up.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Thanks for the info Brad, > > Actually I already have the new motor issue worked out but the gears > need replacing. This will be featured in the projects section of my WEB > site once the project is completed. I had the new motor installed and > the little guy running but the bottom fiber gear is badly chipped and > the entire gear system growls like a coffee grinder. So new gears > are in order. I just thought I would check with everybody before I head > to NWSL for their input. > > I am also concerned about that bottom shaft being bent. It looks like > someone may have tried to pry the bottom gear off hence the chipping and > I am wondering if that bottom shaft might be bent a little. I will > know more about that later. > > By the way, when I lived in the Chicago area I always attended the > conventions you guys put on. The Regional and Divisional NMRA > conventions you guys hosted were great and of course the 50th > Anniversary set a new standard. That was a blast! I could not make it > back there for the last big one. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > I love that engine. I replaced the motor with a Sagami can and > flywheel, but kept the original gears. > > > > One thing you could do is to look at the NWSL gearboxes. I installed > one in an Athearn Hustler and it runs fine. Sagami motors can be had on > EBay. > > > > Brad Smith > > Franklin WI > > > > Sent from my iPod > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19875	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts

Are they the brass or nylon gears on the drive axles Denny?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 6:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts   I have just found out that I will need at least one and preferably 2 of the geared axles for this Penn Line Witcomb Diesel.  Does anybody have at least one and maybe 2 of them they are willing to sell? It seems that a previous owner dinged them when reassembling the drive unit.  With a little file work I was able to get one of them to work O K but the other one is really messed up.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Thanks for the info Brad, > > Actually I already have the new motor issue worked out but the gears > need replacing. This will be featured in the projects section of my WEB > site once the project is completed. I had the new motor installed and > the little guy running but the bottom fiber gear is badly chipped and > the entire gear system growls like a coffee grinder. So… new gears > are in order. I just thought I would check with everybody before I head > to NWSL for their input. > > I am also concerned about that bottom shaft being bent. It looks like > someone may have tried to pry the bottom gear off hence the chipping and > I am wondering if that bottom shaft might be bent a little. I will > know more about that later. > > By the way, when I lived in the Chicago area I always attended the > conventions you guys put on. The Regional and Divisional NMRA > conventions you guys hosted were great and of course the 50th > Anniversary set a new standard. That was a blast! I could not make it > back there for the last big one. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > I love that engine. I replaced the motor with a Sagami can and > flywheel, but kept the original gears. > > > > One thing you could do is to look at the NWSL gearboxes. I installed > one in an Athearn Hustler and it runs fine. Sagami motors can be had on > EBay. > > > > Brad Smith > > Franklin WI > > > > Sent from my iPod > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19876	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts

They are nylon.    Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Are they the brass or nylon gears on the drive axles Denny? >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 6:39 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Penn Line Whitcomb Midget Diesel D-2 looking for parts > > >   > I have just found out that I will need at least one and preferably 2 of the geared axles for this Penn Line Witcomb Diesel. Does anybody have at least one and maybe 2 of them they are willing to sell? It seems that a previous owner dinged them when reassembling the drive unit.  With a little file work I was able to get one of them to work O K but the other one is really messed up.   > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the info Brad, > > > > Actually I already have the new motor issue worked out but the gears > > need replacing. This will be featured in the projects section of my WEB > > site once the project is completed. I had the new motor installed and > > the little guy running but the bottom fiber gear is badly chipped and > > the entire gear system growls like a coffee grinder. So… new gears > > are in order. I just thought I would check with everybody before I head > > to NWSL for their input. > > > > I am also concerned about that bottom shaft being bent. It looks like > > someone may have tried to pry the bottom gear off hence the chipping and > > I am wondering if that bottom shaft might be bent a little. I will > > know more about that later. > > > > By the way, when I lived in the Chicago area I always attended the > > conventions you guys put on. The Regional and Divisional NMRA > > conventions you guys hosted were great and of course the 50th > > Anniversary set a new standard. That was a blast! I could not make it > > back there for the last big one. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > > > I love that engine. I replaced the motor with a Sagami can and > > flywheel, but kept the original gears. > > > > > > One thing you could do is to look at the NWSL gearboxes. I installed > > one in an Athearn Hustler and it runs fine. Sagami motors can be had on > > EBay. > > > > > > Brad Smith > > > Franklin WI > > > > > > Sent from my iPod > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19877	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Need ID help [5 Attachments]

Jim, This reminds me of Cambron, as they were sold with (Baker drive) and without a drive. But, as far as I know, Cambron made castings only in aluminum. Then the thought occurred to me, about Harry Garrett, as they did work for "everybody" including Varney, Dallas Modelcraft and Wholesale Model Supply as well as their own stuff, but I'll try to keep thinking on this one. BTW, do you still need sheet #2 for the Winton Berkshire < g >? Saw your request for it again when browsing through Spanagel's Reporting Marks. Ray F. W.. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19878	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Cambron + others

Attachments : IMG_8334.JPG IMG_8333.JPG IMG_8330.JPG IMG_8328.JPG Hi Ray, Before I start Cambron is one of those items I knew was out there but have found no paperwork or assembly sheets. Probably ads in Mags but I've not seen them. Have to check the HOSC&H-SIG newsletter to see. I can't get the two pictures on this body I sent to show very good. You will have to trust me as to what they say. While I still have no idea who made the engine body I sent the other day these are pictures of a Cambron ALCO body. Notice by what I could clean off the body it's Brass / Bronze . While there could be Aluminum bodies this shows not only Aluminum The first picture is a full length body picture that shows the detail which is poor but top shows Brass / Bronze. The second picture shows the word " CAMBRON " as part of the casting. The third picture which is hard to see has ALCO 2000A stamped inside the body opposite where the Cambron name is found. I have to thank Sean N for this body. To top it off I have an A&B Alco body that is very nicely detailed that I milled out to insert two Athearn drives for the time being. They are Brass / Bronze . Although nothing is visible inside the seller who was a HOSC&H member that they were Cambron. ( A later casting perhaps or not even Cambron. Adams & Son's castings got better with time ) Everything up in the air as to what they are. I'll send pictures of them later. The last picture is page 2 of four for the Winton 2-8-4. It was the one I was missing. Anyone having information besides a picture from a train magazine about Cambron please share it. Some of these bodies might never be identified as to maker and that history will be lost if it isn't already. Have to check my HOSC&H-SIG newsletter for info and Lenahans Locomotive Lexicon Vol II. There is no pictures of Cambron but there are a number of companies who made PA's and list what made off and when. It isn't going to be easy. NEVER SAY NEVER Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19879	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others [4 Attachments]

Hi Jim, MANY THANKS for confirming what I had long understood about Cambron also casting in brass/bronze. I thought Cambron bodies came in cast bronze.brass, but when I broused the H0 SC&H Reporting Mark, all's I could come up with was that they were made in cast aluminum (which they undoubtedly were, but were also cast in brass as you've stated). Besides producing ALCo PA's, Cambron also produced EMD FT's (A's & B's) and EMD E-7's. I also mentioned Garrett (and had in mind Adams & Son) since I believe I read in the Reporting Mark that they casted the bodies for Cambron -- and since they reproduced Varney's aluminum Vandy tender in cast brass, they could have just as easily cast another manufacturer's EMD E-Units. I think I saw something in the Reporting Mark about Cambron ads. I'll go back there, and if so, I'll let you know if I find anything further. Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19880	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others

Ray,            Thanks for the response. I don't have a couple of the earliest Newsletters and according to the index Cambron pictures and info are more in those early issues. I did see it mentioned all the companies Adams & Son cast items for. Cambron was not listed which might or might not be true. I've been looking for ads about Cambron in the newsletter too.  Lenahan has the Cambron ALCO as cast metal ( Zamac ). So far all I found was a picture of a painted Pennsy Cambron ALCO Jeff Richards from CA. posted. Same body as the one I showed. I feel like Sherlock Holmes trying to search it out and put things in place without making a mistake.                                       Jim H On 7/31/2012 6:46 PM, erieberk@... wrote:   Hi Jim, MANY THANKS for confirming what I had long understood about Cambron also casting in brass/bronze. I thought Cambron bodies came in cast bronze.brass, but when I broused the H0 SC&H Reporting Mark, all's I could come up with was that they were made in cast aluminum (which they undoubtedly were, but were also cast in brass as you've stated). Besides producing ALCo PA's, Cambron also produced EMD FT's (A's & B's) and EMD E-7's. I also mentioned Garrett (and had in mind Adams & Son) since I believe I read in the Reporting Mark that they casted the bodies for Cambron -- and since they reproduced Varney's aluminum Vandy tender in cast brass, they could have just as easily cast another manufacturer's EMD E-Units. I think I saw something in the Reporting Mark about Cambron ads. I'll go back there, and if so, I'll let you know if I find anything further. Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19881	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others [4 Attachments]

Jim, I just went back through my Reporting Marks, and I don't need to go any further to show you that it appears what you have is a Cambron. If you have Volume 2, Issues #3 -- turn to Page 6 -- Dave Spanagel described Cambron as being cast in Aluminum, Ornamental (per Spanagel) Bronze and Nickel-Silver. But most importantly, he shows a photo of Cambon's MR ad from November 1947, showing both the ALCo 2000 HP engine and the EMC 2000 HP engine side-by-side. The distinctive rear window of the cab is just like yours -- AND, it also has the TWO headlights (one cast into the door) -- as per your model. BTW, EMC (Electro-Motive Corporation) was the forerunner of EMD (Electro-Motive Division (of General Motors). Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19882	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron + others [4 Attachments]

Jim, Sorry, I gave you the wrong Reporting Mark issue to look up. The Cambron ad (MR, Nov. '47) is in Volume 4, Issue # 2, Page 6. There's another Cambron ad (MR, Dec. '47) in the same Reporting Mark issue on page 12, just showing the ALCo 2000 HP -- which came in both A & B Units -- and a mention of the previous issue stating the EMC 2000 HP was advertised being available in that earlier MR edition. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19883	From: Askerberg	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Mantua Sharks

I have acquired an A-B-A set of Mantua sharks as part of a larger estate, All are powered, but they don't seem to run. I haven't tried to troubleshoot them, as they don't fit into my collecting interests. What I did get from that collection that greatly interests me is a Mantua Mikado, a Cary light Pacific boiler, and the matching Cary detail parts kit. Apparently the first owner had the same interests in the Mike as I and planned to make the conversion. I hope I can carry it out. The collection sat in a basement untopuched for thirty years. Unfortunately, some things were ruined by moisture, but most survied. I don't have much interest in the sharks, however, so if there is anyone on the list who has an interest in them, contact me off list. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19884	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Cambron ?

Attachments : IMG_8348.JPG IMG_8344.JPG IMG_8341.JPG IMG_8339.JPG Ray, I want to add to the Cambron confusion for me which I want to get straightened out. I told you I am missing early volumes of the HOSC&C-SIG newsletter The Reporting Mark. especially volumes 2,3,4,6 for sure. They are where most of the Cambron information of the group was printed . I basically have to go by the bodies I have and what I have been told. I've sent pictures of an A&B ALCO 2000 hp made of cast Brass/Bronze. Not sure which metal but I think brass. I put Athearn drives in both so they at least sat on something. I had to mill the thick bodies out to take them. They came as bodies only. The person who sold me them comes from CA and is a pretty smart cookie. He told me they are Cambron. I know the top one of the 3 bodies shown is definitely Cambron. The middle body shown you have identified from ads you have. The bottom body I can't be sure of. I have found no original plans, parts list or any paperwork to help me figure this out. If they all turn out to be Cambron , because the quality of the castings changed were made by Adams & Son as they improved their casting techniques or done by different casters.. I'm not sure about much at the moment but as that little guy would say " Very interesting ". Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19885	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: I found a great ~new RR Museum while visiting Medina New York

Hello Everyone, I know this is sort of off-topic for this group, but I think it is interesting and definitely train collecting/modeling related. While I was in northern New York for a work "fishing" trip in Lake Ontario, I sort of stumbled upon a Model Railroad & Museum. It was a great place and if you are ever in the area you should visit. This is a flickr photo album I dedicated to it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157630831030114/ It is a great Model Railroad & RR museum located in an huge old NYC freight station in Medina New York. This is their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Medina-Railroad-Museum/213135567791 It is a Father & daughter operation. They have been struggling to keep this museum a-float and survive. The founder of this museum sold his home 20 years ago, purchased a historic NYC 1905 (301 ft. by 34 ft.) freight depot and began to build the museum. He and his family spent the next ~10 years restoring the building, trough many trials, tribulations and the loss of a close family member, making a space in it livable for themselves while making the rest operational as a museum. The last ten years have been spent building the layout and filling the museum walls with historic RR items and various vintage scale as well as toy trains. The layout is still under construction however the areas that are complete have been very nicely and painstakingly done.  The museum offers several seasonal excursions and events directed at introducing children of all ages to the joy that is Model Railroading and Rail Fanning! They have stored outside former NYC E-8's #s 4068 & 4080 with plans to restore them and make them functional for use in their excursions. Museum Hours: Tue. Thru Sun. 11am—5pm Open at 9:30am on Train Days Website:   http://www.railroadmuseum.net/ Museum Contact Info: Medina Railroad Museum PO Box 136 / 530 West Avenue Medina, NY 14103 USA Phone: (585) 798-6106 Museum Email:   Office@... This museum can use our support and patronage. If you or anyone you know who might be interested happen to be in the northern New York State / Niagara Falls area. Heck, if you live close by, maybe you would even be interested in helping work on their layout. Wouldn't hurt to ask. I would if I were a lot closer than a 4 hour drive.   I have never before sent out a message like this but it believe it to be a worthy cause. Sincerely, Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19886	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron ? [4 Attachments]

Hi Jim, I don't doubt your ALCo 2000 HP bodies are Cambrons. The best way for you to determine this further might be to check out the ad in the November 1947 MR, if you have it. Don't know what page though. If someone else can find it, maybe they can post it here. As Spanagel stated, they were sold with and without drives, which is probably why your's don't have drives. Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19887	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Cambron Ad

Does anyone out there have the November 1947 issue of Model Railroader. If so can you look for an ad concerning Cambron Diesels. Sorry I don't know the page. Would appreciate if you could send me an attachment or a copy of the ad.Would reimburse if you have to mail a copy. Would be very appreciative. Thank You Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19888	From: Glenn	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron Ad

J. S. Cambron is on page 955 (numbered from January. Give me an address and I will stick it in an envelope. Mine is a "Bindered" volume and the "gutter" between pages did not copy well. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Cambron Ad Does anyone out there have the November 1947 issue of Model Railroader. If so can you look for an ad concerning Cambron Diesels. Sorry I don't know the page. Would appreciate if you could send me an attachment or a copy of the ad.Would reimburse if you have to mail a copy. Would be very appreciative. Thank You Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19889	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Cambron Ads in MR.pdf Uploaded by : trainliker <ckinzer@...> Description : Cambron cast diesel ads and trade topics in MR You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cambron%20Ads%20in%20MR.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, trainliker <ckinzer@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19890	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: Cambron Ad

I may be able to save you the mailing.   I found everything I could in MR's for Cambron and put them in a pdf in the group files area named "Cambron Ads in MR.pdf".   I found:   Page 767, Sep 1947 (Ad) Page 838, Oct 1947 (Ad) Page 955, Nov 1947 (Ad) Page 1054, Dec 1947 (Ad) Page 67, Jan 1948 (Trade Topics and the year they switched to more conventional page numbering)   Then, nothing further.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Cambron Ad   J. S. Cambron is on page 955 (numbered from January. Give me an address and I will stick it in an envelope. Mine is a "Bindered" volume and the "gutter" between pages did not copy well. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 3:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Cambron Ad Does anyone out there have the November 1947 issue of Model Railroader. If so can you look for an ad concerning Cambron Diesels. Sorry I don't know the page. Would appreciate if you could send me an attachment or a copy of the ad.Would reimburse if you have to mail a copy. Would be very appreciative. Thank You Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19891	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Something might be wrong with this .pdf ......... All I see in it is a completely black page........... When viewed online. HOWEVER, I see it perfectly if I download it and then view the download. I post this in case that others have the same experience of it opening to a black page. If so, download it and you'll be fine. Mike Bauers On Aug 2, 2012, at 1:51 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO > group. > > File : /Cambron Ads in MR.pdf > Uploaded by : trainliker <ckinzer@...> > Description : Cambron cast diesel ads and trade topics in MR > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cambron%20Ads%20in%20MR.pdf

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19892	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Gee Mike,   No problem here. My good old Windows unit working well as usual.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 6:29 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO     Something might be wrong with this .pdf ......... All I see in it is a completely black page........... When viewed online. HOWEVER, I see it perfectly if I download it and then view the download. I post this in case that others have the same experience of it opening to a black page. If so, download it and you'll be fine. Mike Bauers On Aug 2, 2012, at 1:51 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO > group. > > File : /Cambron Ads in MR.pdf > Uploaded by : trainliker <ckinzer@...> > Description : Cambron cast diesel ads and trade topics in MR > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cambron%20Ads%20in%20MR.pdf

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19893	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Cambron pictures & file

> > > Thanks to all who sent emails, copies of Cambron ad and added to > the files. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19894	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: What about vintage structures kits?

I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19895	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Sounds like it would be interesting.  I've got some old Alexander, dyna Models, and Model Hobbies kits on my "to do" shelf.  And a Suydam (now Alpine) all-metal factory kit to remind me how I learned to solder at age 14.  Self taught -- I may still have some burn scars, and "Wipeout" was probably playing on the AM while I was incinerating myself.    Of course everyone built the Revell plastic kits.  So much so that they're model railroad cliches.   John B. Allyn From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:33:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits?   I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19896	From: Mike	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

I agree with your core concept. Last night I was thinking about the same over a circa 1940-50 quonset hut kit on eBay. But.... Going further on cardstock kits; while they can stop at no-depth 2d construction, they can just as well be fully 3d depth and relief. That's what I prefer and what I'm working into. It's a construction that uses more layers, as we see in the typical laser kit, except for being hand-cut in the past, this is how the best of vintage DIY scratch-building in cardstock was done. We just get to use better tools today . I have some vintage cardstock and some other kits I've sat on for these days when I can dupe them in higher quality, even the two quite old Carstens cut-out books. They are some nice looking things and even better looking if you notch up the construction into better standards. The collectables are nice. I prefer to improve on them and build newer versions of them. Case in point is one of the old Suydam card kits that is temptingly cute. But long unavailable, sometime later, I'll have my next generation version of it and a few of those for myself. It should build to look the same, yet better defined. Perhaps I'm more of a vintage design buff than a vintage collector buff for those old kits? Mike Bauers, on da phone.... Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and > rolling stock but what about structures? Is anybody interested in > collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is > that not within the scope of this board? I don't see them discussed > here. Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing > some builds of the older structure kits. I've already done a Campbell > kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category. > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock > and paper as a structural building materials. It is of higher visual > quality but it's still one dimensional. Makes me wonder if printed > car sides will make a comeback anytime soon? Listening to > "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19897	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

alpinemodels.com sells some of the suydam card kits.  does the definition of vintage include 'reissues'? does a ye old huff n puff silver streak kit count as vintage? discuss.    george From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 3:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What about vintage structures kits?   I agree with your core concept. Last night I was thinking about the same over a circa 1940-50 quonset hut kit on eBay. But.... Going further on cardstock kits; while they can stop at no-depth 2d construction, they can just as well be fully 3d depth and relief. That's what I prefer and what I'm working into. It's a construction that uses more layers, as we see in the typical laser kit, except for being hand-cut in the past, this is how the best of vintage DIY scratch-building in cardstock was done. We just get to use better tools today . I have some vintage cardstock and some other kits I've sat on for these days when I can dupe them in higher quality, even the two quite old Carstens cut-out books. They are some nice looking things and even better looking if you notch up the construction into better standards. The collectables are nice. I prefer to improve on them and build newer versions of them. Case in point is one of the old Suydam card kits that is temptingly cute. But long unavailable, sometime later, I'll have my next generation version of it and a few of those for myself. It should build to look the same, yet better defined. Perhaps I'm more of a vintage design buff than a vintage collector buff for those old kits? Mike Bauers, on da phone.... Mike Bauers --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and > rolling stock but what about structures? Is anybody interested in > collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is > that not within the scope of this board? I don't see them discussed > here. Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing > some builds of the older structure kits. I've already done a Campbell > kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category. > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock > and paper as a structural building materials. It is of higher visual > quality but it's still one dimensional. Makes me wonder if printed > car sides will make a comeback anytime soon? Listening to > "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19898	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

John, What Models Hobbies kits do you have?  I am looking for info on one in particular.  It was a 2 story house kit.  It was advertised briefly but I cannot verify that it was ever made.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > Sounds like it would be interesting.  I've got some old Alexander, dyna Models, and Model Hobbies kits on my "to do" shelf.  And a S uydam (now A lpine) all-metal factory kit  to remind me how I learned to solder at age 14 .  Self taught -- I may still have some burn scars, and "Wipeout" was probably playing on the AM while I was incinerating my self .  > > > > Of course everyone built the Revell plastic kits.  So much so that they're model railroad cliches. > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cwrailman" cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:33:57 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > >   > > > > > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?   Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?   I don't see them discussed here.    Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.   It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.   Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?   Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com   Facebook: CWRailman   >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19899	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

I have some Suydam kits recently purchased from E-Bay to build in the next year or so.  One maybe sooner, as the 1875 station will be in a soon to be sceniced spot.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cwrailman Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:34 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits?     I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19900	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Chuck, Nice work on that scratchbuilt Miami station.  Is it near full size or did you compress it?  I also like the lettering on the Walthers 60' baggage car that is shown on your photo page. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > I have some Suydam kits recently purchased from E-Bay to build in the next > year or so. One maybe sooner, as the 1875 station will be in a soon to be > sceniced spot. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of cwrailman > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:34 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling > stock but what about structures? Is anybody interested in collecting and > building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the > scope of this board? I don't see them discussed here. Among the builds I > show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older > structure kits. I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of > which fall into the Vintage category. > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and > paper as a structural building materials. It is of higher visual quality > but it's still one dimensional. Makes me wonder if printed car sides will > make a comeback anytime soon? Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio > station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: <http://www.cwrailman.com/> CWRailman.com > > Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > CWRailman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19901	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Hi Denny,   Thanks, the station is full size.  The tracks are all there as well width wise, just 20% shorter for 6 city blocks at least.  Still have lots to go on this project.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cwrailman Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 4:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What about vintage structures kits?     Chuck, Nice work on that scratchbuilt Miami station.  Is it near full size or did you compress it?  I also like the lettering on the Walthers 60' baggage car that is shown on your photo page. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > I have some Suydam kits recently purchased from E-Bay to build in the next > year or so. One maybe sooner, as the 1875 station will be in a soon to be > sceniced spot. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of cwrailman > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:34 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling > stock but what about structures? Is anybody interested in collecting and > building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the > scope of this board? I don't see them discussed here. Among the builds I > show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older > structure kits. I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of > which fall into the Vintage category. > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and > paper as a structural building materials. It is of higher visual quality > but it's still one dimensional. Makes me wonder if printed car sides will > make a comeback anytime soon? Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio > station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: <http://www.cwrailman.com/> CWRailman.com > > Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > CWRailman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19902	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Card modeling for structures never completely died the way it did with rolling stock. Seems that overseas, it is still somewhat popular. Check out scalescenes.com which is a British site. They offer downloads in Adobe PDF file that you can print as many times as you like. While most of their structures are British, some would work just fine in American layouts. Plus they have a scratchbuilder's yard, which is various wall and roof textures. Of note is that the sheets are designed for A4 sized paper. The OO kits are close to HO scale. American letter size paper is slightly smaller than A4 anyway. My printers shrink the pages to fit, and the end up very, very close to HO scale in the end. I use a color laser printer to print these models out. Got two color laser printers at my shop, both had issues, and were discarded from the Waukegan Public Schools. One works most of the time, but the other is a basket case. I generally build my own structures of wood and card. I'm replacing nearly all my plastic structures, except for a few Revell kits. Ordinarily I would not use them, but they were a birthday present this year from a close friend, so I made an exception! Ace Hardware in downtown Waukegan, a few blocks from my home, carries a limited selection of Midwest Products bass and balsawood. There's an Ace further out that has a full selection, though. The one downtown carries most of what I use. Often end up buying entire packs of wood. The 1/16 square strips of basswood came 60 to a pack, I ordered two packs and only have about 20 strips left right now! Much of that is used in fence making and building trim. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 8/2/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 2, 2012, 11:33 AM   I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19903	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/2/2012 2:18 PM, Mike wrote: > I agree with your core concept. > > Last night I was thinking about the same over a circa 1940-50 quonset hut kit on eBay. > > But.... Going further on cardstock kits; while they can stop at no-depth 2d construction, they can just as well be fully 3d depth and relief. That's what I prefer and what I'm working into. > > It's a construction that uses more layers, as we see in the typical laser kit, except for being hand-cut in the past, this is how the best of vintage DIY scratch-building in cardstock was done. > > We just get to use better tools today . > > I have some vintage cardstock and some other kits I've sat on for these days when I can dupe them in higher quality, even the two quite old Carstens cut-out books. They are some nice looking things and even better looking if you notch up the construction into better standards. > > The collectables are nice. I prefer to improve on them and build newer versions of them. > > Case in point is one of the old Suydam card kits that is temptingly cute. But long unavailable, sometime later, I'll have my next generation version of it and a few of those for myself. It should build to look the same, yet better defined. > > Perhaps I'm more of a vintage design buff than a vintage collector buff for those old kits? > > Mike Bauers, on da phone.... > > > Mike Bauers > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > Mike; I seem to remember a few buildings cutout from the Dover books on your modules at Trainfest <G> Most of my city backdop is paper cutouts, a lot from the Evans software. Paper & card modelling is definitely making a comeback. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19904	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Attachments : Varney_Trucks02.jpg Sub1-19904.jpg Sand & Pump house.jpg On 8/2/2012 2:12 PM, john.allyn@... wrote: Sounds like it would be interesting.  I've got some old Alexander, dyna Models, and Model Hobbies kits on my "to do" shelf.  And a Suydam (now Alpine) all-metal factory kit to remind me how I learned to solder at age 14.  Self taught -- I may still have some burn scars, and "Wipeout" was probably playing on the AM while I was incinerating myself.    Of course everyone built the Revell plastic kits.  So much so that they're model railroad cliches.   John B. Allyn From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:33:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits?   I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  The vintage structures are totally on topic as are things like the old plaster cast automobiles and Walthers lead figures. There's a few original Suydams on my layout, even on the modules I take to Trainfest every year, and a few of the Revell's too. BTW, listening the original 45 of "Wipeout" as I type this <G>  (and when it ends, "Surfer Joe' is on the flip side) Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19905	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits? [3 Attachments]

Don (and all) Speaking of plaster automobiles, who was it again that made the plaster vehicles that were a light pinkish tone? Got a number of them, and I forget the company that made them. Found a couple Tootsietoy buses at a new resale shop that opened across the street from my computer store. Old toys. One's a short city transit bus (Looks like a WWII era Ford "crackerbox" design), the other an early postwar GM Silversides. Not suitable for use near the edge of the tabletop, but in the background, with some paint, they look OK. Anyone else seen the old Walthers buildings when they included choice of celluloid window glass, or black and white printed windows that one glued over the walls? I got myself an old city house building kit, unassembled, and made a ton of copies of the black and white window sheet. Tend to use them on buildings where they look acceptable. Never run out of glue on windows that way! I kept the original sheet and can make more copies if needed. By the way,  I've used some of those Dover houses too. Little bit of extra 3D detailing goes a long way in making them look better. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 8/2/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? [3 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 2, 2012, 7:19 PM   On 8/2/2012 2:12 PM, john.allyn@... wrote: Sounds like it would be interesting.  I've got some old Alexander, dyna Models, and Model Hobbies kits on my "to do" shelf.  And a Suydam (now Alpine) all-metal factory kit to remind me how I learned to solder at age 14.  Self taught -- I may still have some burn scars, and "Wipeout" was probably playing on the AM while I was incinerating myself.    Of course everyone built the Revell plastic kits.  So much so that they're model railroad cliches.   John B. Allyn From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:33:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits?   I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  The vintage structures are totally on topic as are things like the old plaster cast automobiles and Walthers lead figures. There's a few original Suydams on my layout, even on the modules I take to Trainfest every year, and a few of the Revell's too. BTW, listening the original 45 of "Wipeout" as I type this <G>  (and when it ends, "Surfer Joe' is on the flip side) Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19906	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/2/2012 4:48 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Card modeling for structures never completely died the way it did with > rolling stock. Seems that overseas, it is still somewhat popular. > > Check out scalescenes.com which is a British site. They offer downloads > in Adobe PDF file that you can print as many times as you like. While > most of their structures are British, some would work just fine in > American layouts. Plus they have a scratchbuilder's yard, which is > various wall and roof textures. If anybody is interested in a huge source of free textures for DIY paperside structures take a look at http://www.cgtextures.com/ Free registration but there is a limit to how much you can download per day. Some amazing textures there. I haven't used any yet but I've had it bookmarked for future use. -- Rick Jones "Milhouse, we're living in the age of cooties." -Bart Simpson, "The Simpsons"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19907	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Don   Nice photos. Those buildings look rather convincing, more so than some of the pre-colored plastic ones.   And that line up of Varney Ford trucks certainly takes me back, albeit while I had several pick-ups I only had maybe one or two of those larger frameless wonders. Those came out when, early 1950’s? Even by that early age I knew there had to be some sort of frame back there to support any load. Probably because Dad purchased the Ford Tractor dealership in Green bay in like august or September 1951. Since the house and business properties adjoined guess where I spent virtually all my time. While we didn’t sell trucks a lot of our customers, being product loyal, also had Ford trucks. So there were plenty of F5 or F6 stake beds around.   Music? Right now Apache. How many out there know off hand the Artist? I know you do Don but…….   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? [3 Attachments]   <Snip>   The vintage structures are totally on topic as are things like the old plaster cast automobiles and Walthers lead figures. There's a few original Suydams on my layout, even on the modules I take to Trainfest every year, and a few of the Revell's too. BTW, listening the original 45 of "Wipeout" as I type this <G>  (and when it ends, "Surfer Joe' is on the flip side) Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/   Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (11) Recent Activity: ·         New Members 2 ·         New Files 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19908	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

I have a very limited memory of plaster HO vehicles. It’s like I know they existed but never had any. My favorites were the Ulrich trucks (still feel their tandem axle bogies haven’t been equaled let alone improved upon) and then the Penn Line Ford C cabs.   Somewhere my brother Erv got a rubber mold for casting plaster race cars, sort of like midgets in appearance. He cast up several and we painted them however. They were definitely larger than HO, probably somewhere between S and O scale. Being one piece other than the wheels and axles they lasted forever.   Sometime in the late 1950’s someone gave me a bunch of old Road and Track plus other sporty car magazines, going back to 1952 or so. Besides making me fall absolutely with the 1954 – 1955 seasons M-B W-196 F-1 cars and the 300 SLR sport racers and of course the 300 SL Gullwing’s, I discovered the rear engine Cooper F-3 cars. I took a couple or the cast midgets and sanded off the headrests on the fuel tanks so I could duplicate those early Cooper’s just by turning them end for end. Not exact but I was the only kid on the block that had thing close. Of course my friends, who had interest at all in British F-3 racing thought I was nuts. So were they right?   John Hagen     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits?     Don (and all) Speaking of plaster automobiles, who was it again that made the plaster vehicles that were a light pinkish tone? Got a number of them, and I forget the company that made them. Found a couple Tootsietoy buses at a new resale shop that opened across the street from my computer store. Old toys. One's a short city transit bus (Looks like a WWII era Ford "crackerbox" design), the other an early postwar GM Silversides. Not suitable for use near the edge of the tabletop, but in the background, with some paint, they look OK. Anyone else seen the old Walthers buildings when they included choice of celluloid window glass, or black and white printed windows that one glued over the walls? I got myself an old city house building kit, unassembled, and made a ton of copies of the black and white window sheet. Tend to use them on buildings where they look acceptable. Never run out of glue on windows that way! I kept the original sheet and can make more copies if needed. By the way,  I've used some of those Dover houses too. Little bit of extra 3D detailing goes a long way in making them look better. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 8/2/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? [3 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 2, 2012, 7:19 PM   On 8/2/2012 2:12 PM, john.allyn@... wrote: Sounds like it would be interesting.  I've got some old Alexander, dyna Models, and Model Hobbies kits on my "to do" shelf.  And a Suydam (now Alpine) all-metal factory kit to remind me how I learned to solder at age 14.  Self taught -- I may still have some burn scars, and "Wipeout" was probably playing on the AM while I was incinerating myself.    Of course everyone built the Revell plastic kits.  So much so that they're model railroad cliches.   John B. Allyn   From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:33:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits?   I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling stock but what about structures?  Is anybody interested in collecting and building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the scope of this board?  I don't see them discussed here.  Among the builds I show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older structure kits.  I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of which fall into the Vintage category.  I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and paper as a structural building materials.  It is of higher visual quality but it's still one dimensional.  Makes me wonder if printed car sides will make a comeback anytime soon?  Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio station as I wrote this. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  The vintage structures are totally on topic as are things like the old plaster cast automobiles and Walthers lead figures. There's a few original Suydams on my layout, even on the modules I take to Trainfest every year, and a few of the Revell's too. BTW, listening the original 45 of "Wipeout" as I type this <G>  (and when it ends, "Surfer Joe' is on the flip side) Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19909	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Plaster cars

I very recently had a win on eBay for about 40 plaster cars with a few trucks and a bus. I'm quite surprised by the quality of detail on them. Most of them are still in freshly molded vintage condition. One that I like is the 1950-ish Pontiac suburban delivery with it's distinctive ribbed hood. I'll have to upload some shots. I wanted them because a few of them have never duplicated in more modern production. My idea was to touch up some of them as needed and remold in some cast-able plastic. Mike Bauers On Aug 2, 2012, at 11:29 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > I have a very limited memory of plaster HO vehicles. It’s like I know they existed but never had any. My favorites were the Ulrich trucks (still feel their tandem axle bogies haven’t been equaled let alone improved upon) and then the Penn Line Ford C cabs. > > Somewhere my brother Erv got a rubber mold for casting plaster race cars, sort of like midgets in appearance. He cast up several and we painted them however. They were definitely larger than HO, probably somewhere between S and O scale. Being one piece other than the wheels and axles they lasted forever. > > Sometime in the late 1950’s someone gave me a bunch of old Road and Track plus other sporty car magazines, going back to 1952 or so. Besides making me fall absolutely with the 1954 – 1955 seasons M-B W-196 F-1 cars and the 300 SLR sport racers and of course the 300 SL Gullwing’s, I discovered the rear engine Cooper F-3 cars. I took a couple or the cast midgets and sanded off the headrests on the fuel tanks so I could duplicate those early Cooper’s just by turning them end for end. Not exact but I was the only kid on the block that had thing close. Of course my friends, who had interest at all in British F-3 racing thought I was nuts. So were they right? > > John Hagen > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > Don (and all) > > Speaking of plaster automobiles, who was it again that made the plaster vehicles that were a light pinkish tone? Got a number of them, and I forget the company that made them.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19910	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

I got a dozen or so of those plaster vehicles some time in the early '70s. A MHS in Maryland advertised them in one of the magazines for fifty cents each or $5 for the dozen. But I had the impression that these were made from latex molds of the originals. I seem to recall them being sold as made by an "Alabaster plaster master caster" or something like that. I painted mine and piled them up to look like a junk yard. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/plastervehicles1.html> According to my caption on the image, they were originally made by the LeRoy Toy and Novelty Co. of Philadelphia PA. Mike On 8/3/2012 12:29 AM, John Hagen wrote: > I have a very limited memory of plaster HO vehicles. It’s like I know > they existed but never had any. My favorites were the Ulrich trucks > (still feel their tandem axle bogies haven’t been equaled let alone > improved upon) and then the Penn Line Ford C cabs. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19911	From: takefive247	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Mantua on ebay ??

Hi guys, Is this ebay item #300750620519 a production engine? If so when was it produced? Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19912	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars

Mike, Please do upload some photos. John Hagen -----Original Message----- From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 6:13 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Plaster cars I very recently had a win on eBay for about 40 plaster cars with a few trucks and a bus. I'm quite surprised by the quality of detail on them. Most of them are still in freshly molded vintage condition. One that I like is the 1950-ish Pontiac suburban delivery with it's distinctive ribbed hood. I'll have to upload some shots. I wanted them because a few of them have never duplicated in more modern production. My idea was to touch up some of them as needed and remold in some cast-able plastic. Mike Bauers On Aug 2, 2012, at 11:29 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > I have a very limited memory of plaster HO vehicles. It's like I know they existed but never had any. My favorites were the Ulrich trucks (still feel their tandem axle bogies haven't been equaled let alone improved upon) and then the Penn Line Ford C cabs. > > Somewhere my brother Erv got a rubber mold for casting plaster race cars, sort of like midgets in appearance. He cast up several and we painted them however. They were definitely larger than HO, probably somewhere between S and O scale. Being one piece other than the wheels and axles they lasted forever. > > Sometime in the late 1950's someone gave me a bunch of old Road and Track plus other sporty car magazines, going back to 1952 or so. Besides making me fall absolutely with the 1954 - 1955 seasons M-B W-196 F-1 cars and the 300 SLR sport racers and of course the 300 SL Gullwing's, I discovered the rear engine Cooper F-3 cars. I took a couple or the cast midgets and sanded off the headrests on the fuel tanks so I could duplicate those early Cooper's just by turning them end for end. Not exact but I was the only kid on the block that had thing close. Of course my friends, who had interest at all in British F-3 racing thought I was nuts. So were they right? > > John Hagen > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:53 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > Don (and all) > > Speaking of plaster automobiles, who was it again that made the plaster vehicles that were a light pinkish tone? Got a number of them, and I forget the company that made them. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19913	From: Tom Hare	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

Yes, it is the Mighty Mite, made in the late 40s, early 50s. Same vintage as the Belle and the Mogul. Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, Is this ebay item #300750620519 a production engine? If so when was it produced? > Bill >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19914	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

That is the Mighty Mite produced in the late forties. Appears to be the Goat with a standard end cab boiler.   I was looking at that auction but, well, one can have just so many “toys” (as my wife refers to them).   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 7:56 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ??     Hi guys, Is this ebay item #300750620519 a production engine? If so when was it produced? Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19915	From: al45390	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.

The photographer goes out of his mind, but I can't blame him. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19916	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

Bill, John,  As a note: The boiler on the Mighty Mite is larger diameter than the boilers that are on the Goat or the the Busy Little B. Therefore they require a larger diameter smokebox cover. The cab is actually not a standard cab in that the screw location for the cab/boiler mount falls right smack in the middle of the cab off of a large/thick post molded inside the cab. The standard cabs mount just behind the forward wall on a much smaller and shorter post.  The one Bill presented was a pretty nice example. Surprised it went that high considering the description. It knocked out my bid on it.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ??   That is the Mighty Mite produced in the late forties. Appears to be the Goat with a standard end cab boiler.   I was looking at that auction but, well, one can have just so many “toys” (as my wife refers to them).   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of takefive247 Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 7:56 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ??     Hi guys, Is this ebay item #300750620519 a production engine? If so when was it produced? Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19917	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

I believe it was called the Mighty Mite, and it may have been in the 1940's. From: takefive247 <townline58@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 8:55 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ??   Hi guys, Is this ebay item #300750620519 a production engine? If so when was it produced? Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19918	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars

Hi: I recall having a couple of rubber molds for generic two door coupes and a 1940-ish Ford-ish  sedan. A couple of boxes of plaster kept this ten year old out of mischief for a few days. They painted up with water base paint easily. Hadn't thought about that in an awful long time. Regards, Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19919	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars

I seem to remember there was a place in Baltimore, Pro Custom Hobbies that used to sell plaster vehicles back in the 1970's, they were certainly priced right, but I don't think they ever took off in sales, many of them were 1950's style cars, would have loved to see some examples, but never got the nerve up to order any!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 9:05 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Plaster cars   Mike, Please do upload some photos. John Hagen -----Original Message----- From: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 6:13 AM To: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Plaster cars I very recently had a win on eBay for about 40 plaster cars with a few trucks and a bus. I'm quite surprised by the quality of detail on them. Most of them are still in freshly molded vintage condition. One that I like is the 1950-ish Pontiac suburban delivery with it's distinctive ribbed hood. I'll have to upload some shots. I wanted them because a few of them have never duplicated in more modern production. My idea was to touch up some of them as needed and remold in some cast-able plastic. Mike Bauers On Aug 2, 2012, at 11:29 PM, John Hagen wrote: > > > I have a very limited memory of plaster HO vehicles. It's like I know they existed but never had any. My favorites were the Ulrich trucks (still feel their tandem axle bogies haven't been equaled let alone improved upon) and then the Penn Line Ford C cabs. > > Somewhere my brother Erv got a rubber mold for casting plaster race cars, sort of like midgets in appearance. He cast up several and we painted them however. They were definitely larger than HO, probably somewhere between S and O scale. Being one piece other than the wheels and axles they lasted forever. > > Sometime in the late 1950's someone gave me a bunch of old Road and Track plus other sporty car magazines, going back to 1952 or so. Besides making me fall absolutely with the 1954 - 1955 seasons M-B W-196 F-1 cars and the 300 SLR sport racers and of course the 300 SL Gullwing's, I discovered the rear engine Cooper F-3 cars. I took a couple or the cast midgets and sanded off the headrests on the fuel tanks so I could duplicate those early Cooper's just by turning them end for end. Not exact but I was the only kid on the block that had thing close. Of course my friends, who had interest at all in British F-3 racing thought I was nuts. So were they right? > > John Hagen > > From: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:53 PM > To: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > Don (and all) > > Speaking of plaster automobiles, who was it again that made the plaster vehicles that were a light pinkish tone? Got a number of them, and I forget the company that made them. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19920	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

Sorry, Sean.   I wasn’t very clear on that one. Well, as I get older my mind gets ever foggier and I often use murky explanations.   I was not referring to a standard Mantua design but to a standard prototype design 0-6-0 as opposed to a Camel.   Your Mantua data is absolutely correct. At the time the Mite was produced it would be difficult to say much about Mantua’s “standard” diecast locos was there really wasn’t hardly any. If memory serves the Mite was the only loco to use that boiler/cab casting. It was likely a way to get some more miles out the Goat mechanism. Not really all that well known to any but us old farts as it was truly over shadowed the Shifter which arrived 1949 – 1950.   I was surprised at the price also. In fact, the same seller put several early Mantua diecast steamers up for three day auctions at the same time. And they all drew much higher bids that I was expecting. I had a couple I was seriously interested in but not at them prices. This may be a trend as it seems that vintage Mantua diecast has been creeping up. Especially for those who can recognize the early generation Mike’s and Pacific’s with the enclosed worm drives. Could be vintage HO collecting is coming into its own.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:34 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ??     Bill, John,    As a note: The boiler on the Mighty Mite is larger diameter than the boilers that are on the Goat or the the Busy Little B. Therefore they require a larger diameter smokebox cover. The cab is actually not a standard cab in that the screw location for the cab/boiler mount falls right smack in the middle of the cab off of a large/thick post molded inside the cab. The standard cabs mount just behind the forward wall on a much smaller and shorter post.    The one Bill presented was a pretty nice example. Surprised it went that high considering the description. It knocked out my bid on it.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19921	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars

Yes, I remember now that is where my plaster cars came from! I am changing the caption on my image at <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/plastervehicles1.html> Mike On 8/3/2012 1:06 PM, Gary Woodard wrote: > I seem to remember there was a place in Baltimore, Pro Custom Hobbies > that used to sell plaster vehicles back in the 1970's, they were > certainly priced right, but I don't think they ever took off in > sales, many of them were 1950's style cars, would have loved to see > some examples, but never got the nerve up to order any! Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19922	From: rxensen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

I have built this kit and it is close to Milwaukee RR depots. In my case I did not have room for the freight house addition. I made a folder called Ron's old models. I note the roof on the bay window slants a bit the wrong way, amazing what you see in photos after the model is done. Ron Chrisensen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > I have some Suydam kits recently purchased from E-Bay to build in the next > year or so. One maybe sooner, as the 1875 station will be in a soon to be > sceniced spot. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of cwrailman > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:34 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling > stock but what about structures? Is anybody interested in collecting and > building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the > scope of this board? I don't see them discussed here. Among the builds I > show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older > structure kits. I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of > which fall into the Vintage category. > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and > paper as a structural building materials. It is of higher visual quality > but it's still one dimensional. Makes me wonder if printed car sides will > make a comeback anytime soon? Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio > station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: <http://www.cwrailman.com/> CWRailman.com > > Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > CWRailman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19923	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Ron, It's interesting that you should mention this.  The Photography page on my WEB site demonstrates some easy methods of photographing models.  O n that page is a topic called A Suggestion O n What to Do With All Those Pictures. I mention projecting the images taken during construction or after the model is installed and critically reviewing them on a flat screen TV. This is a great tool to improve your modeling skills or driving you to drink.  Some 30 years ago a friend of mine had been photographing his railroad using color slides.  We set up to do some high quality B&W for a magazine article we were planning.  Prior to shooting the images on sheet film, I did a few test shots using a Poloroid back on a 4x5 view camera.  When my friend looked at the test shots he started finding all sorts of things wrong that he did not see with the naked eye or in his slides.  The camera is N O T very forgiving. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rxensen" <rxensen@...> wrote: > > I have built this kit and it is close to Milwaukee RR depots. > In my case I did not have room for the freight house addition. > I made a folder called Ron's old models. > I note the roof on the bay window slants a bit the wrong way, amazing what you see in photos after the model is done. > Ron Chrisensen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19924	From: Glenn	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

The Mighty Mite can be considered to be the transition loco from the original style construction to the die cast line, which then evolved into the present line. gj -----Original Message----- From: Tom Hare Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 6:10 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua on ebay ?? Yes, it is the Mighty Mite, made in the late 40s, early 50s. Same vintage as the Belle and the Mogul. Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <townline58@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, Is this ebay item #300750620519 a production engine? If so when > was it produced? > Bill > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19925	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars

Hi Mike,   From the pic, they don't look bad at all, and would really work okay in forground scenes, while certainly not as fancy and nice as the newer more detailed Classic Metal Works cars, they aren't $15 a piece either, now if I could have seen some examples back in the day, I might have bought a few.   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Plaster cars   Yes, I remember now that is where my plaster cars came from! I am changing the caption on my image at <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/plastervehicles1.html> Mike On 8/3/2012 1:06 PM, Gary Woodard wrote: > I seem to remember there was a place in Baltimore, Pro Custom Hobbies > that used to sell plaster vehicles back in the 1970's, they were > certainly priced right, but I don't think they ever took off in > sales, many of them were 1950's style cars, would have loved to see > some examples, but never got the nerve up to order any! Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19926	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

John Allen said the best way to improve your modeling abilities is to photograph your finished models.   george From: rxensen <rxensen@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 1:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What about vintage structures kits?   I have built this kit and it is close to Milwaukee RR depots. In my case I did not have room for the freight house addition. I made a folder called Ron's old models. I note the roof on the bay window slants a bit the wrong way, amazing what you see in photos after the model is done. Ron Chrisensen --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > I have some Suydam kits recently purchased from E-Bay to build in the next > year or so. One maybe sooner, as the 1875 station will be in a soon to be > sceniced spot. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of cwrailman > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:34 PM > To: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] What about vintage structures kits? > > > > > > I've enjoyed all the conversation about vintage motive power and rolling > stock but what about structures? Is anybody interested in collecting and > building the old vintage craftsman structure kits or is that not within the > scope of this board? I don't see them discussed here. Among the builds I > show on my WEB site I am considering doing some builds of the older > structure kits. I've already done a Campbell kit and a LaBelle kit both of > which fall into the Vintage category. > > I find it ironic that some modelers are returning to printed card stock and > paper as a structural building materials. It is of higher visual quality > but it's still one dimensional. Makes me wonder if printed car sides will > make a comeback anytime soon? Listening to "Wipeout" on my oldies radio > station as I wrote this. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: <http://www.cwrailman.com/> CWRailman.com > > Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > CWRailman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19927	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

For my estimation, there's nothing like the old structure kits, when built and put on a layout, to help bring back the atmosphere of those vintage times. Don't know why this topic was hardly touched on before, but I thoroughly enjoy them. I have a number of these kits including some from Suncoast, Suydam, Campbell, Alexander, Ideal, Ayres and T.K. Models awaiting time for me to build them. T.K. Models produced an ERIE Railroad Ramsey Station, of which the prototype still stand on the ex-Erie main (now, NJ Transit) not too far from me in north Jersey. With today's epoxies, Suydam kits don't need to be soldered anymore. Ideal produced many fine looking structures of all kinds -- a series of about 29 different ones -- not near as many as Campbell or some others, but still considerable Also, have an Ulrich structure kit; they made a nice coaling trestle. Additionally, there's a Laconia Industries Inc. structure in my collection which I hope to build someday. Laconia made only one structure kit (but was better known for rolling stock, including passenger equipment. The sole structure kit they made was a Campodonico's Wholesale Fruit Warehouse (protoype in California). Would have to recheck the v Files for the city as I don't remember where right now. How many remember these following H0 structure kit manufacturers? Star-Line, Rail-Chief, Westchester Models, Skyline, 20th Century, Majestic, Miniature Fabricators, J.I. Models, LeRoy and Modelton. Have a few kits from several of these manufacturers, but most are hard to find today. Getting back to cardstock and paper? I don't think I ever left. It was great when Walthers offered building papers in all kinds of material finishes (Red Brick, Brownstone, Fieldstone, Flagstone, etc.). Alpine Models and Ye Olde Huff 'N Puff reissues would not be considered vintage, but could fill in for one's purposes where a vintage item is missing, if only to enjoy operating them or having them as part of the establishments, businesses or houses. Most structure kits can no longer fit in their boxes once build (nor would you want them to), but most rolling stock will still fit in their boxes, which does add to their validity (and value). Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19928	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Epoxy? That "rang a bell" with me - I have an old Suydm corrugated metal engine house that I never assembled because I didn't feel like messing with solder, paste flux, etc. Anyone have any suggestions on using two-part epoxy (like JB Weld or similar) to assemble something like that? I might be willing to give it a try while I am stuck indoors during this heat spell. Mike On 8/3/2012 4:42 PM, erieberk@... wrote: > For my estimation, there's nothing like the old structure kits, when built > and put on a layout, to help bring back the atmosphere of those vintage > times. Don't know why this topic was hardly touched on before, but I > thoroughly > enjoy them. I have a number of these kits including some from Suncoast, > Suydam, Campbell, Alexander, Ideal, Ayres and T.K. Models awaiting time > for me > to build them. T.K. Models produced an ERIE Railroad Ramsey Station, of > which the prototype still stand on the ex-Erie main (now, NJ Transit) > not too > far from me in north Jersey. With today's epoxies, Suydam kits don't need > to be soldered anymore.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19929	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars

Yes! Those are like the ones I have. The car in front of the oil truck, I have, as well as the one behind the bus (A GM TD series "Old Look"). Would love to find one of those buses at least. I have some paper models of a Twin Cities Old Look, and a paper model of an old Chicago Surface Lines bus, I think the CSL one is a model of a White bus. Our suburban bus agency around here still rosters a couple GM Old Looks, painted in historic colors, and used mostly for parades. It would be interesting to get a couple genuine vintage model Old  Looks and custom paint them into theoretical colors, Pace's old livery of white body with yellow belt running around it with blue stripe trim above and below the belt, and also their current all blue livery with white lettering. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 8/3/12, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Plaster cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 12:22 PM   Yes, I remember now that is where my plaster cars came from! I am changing the caption on my image at <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/plastervehicles1.html> Mike On 8/3/2012 1:06 PM, Gary Woodard wrote: > I seem to remember there was a place in Baltimore, Pro Custom Hobbies > that used to sell plaster vehicles back in the 1970's, they were > certainly priced right, but I don't think they ever took off in > sales, many of them were 1950's style cars, would have loved to see > some examples, but never got the nerve up to order any! Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19930	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

This conversation about the Suydam kits is running parallel to a similar conversation being held on the Fine Scale Miniatures board so I am posting here what I posted on that board about my experiences in building these kits in the past. If you are a member of both boards sorry for the double posting. Back in the 60's - 70's when these kits were popular some modelers soldered them together others assembled them using Goo or similar contact cement.  A bit later in the early 1980's some modelers used the 5 minute Epoxy which does quite well when properly clamped.  Clamping is the key no matter what sort of glue/cement/solder is used.   Even if you go the solder route you will need to clamp the pieces together to assure a good solder joint and that the pieces don't move while the solder is cooling which will result in a bad joint. In several of the builds on my WEB page The Drovers Caboose build or the Matthews Mercantile build I stress clamping of components and that resulted in several blog entries about that subject.  One more thing.  When we assembled those kits back in the 70's the soldering irons we used were very large and heavy and about 100 watts.  You could actually get the lights to dim for a second when you plugged one in to the outlet.  They put out a L O T of heat.  The smaller soldering irons today, even the high wattage units, don't seem to put out that kind of heat.  As I recall some of the mini gas torches will warp the metal so be careful if considering using one of those. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > Epoxy? That "rang a bell" with me - I have an old Suydm corrugated metal > engine house that I never assembled because I didn't feel like messing > with solder, paste flux, etc. Anyone have any suggestions on using > two-part epoxy (like JB Weld or similar) to assemble something like > that? I might be willing to give it a try while I am stuck indoors > during this heat spell. > > Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19931	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

I had one of these locomotives. My dad bought it for me in 2005 for my 21st birthday. Sadly, a few months after I started running it, it crumbed up from zamak rot. Tender was just fine, but the boiler and frame went to pieces. Maybe others have had the same experience with this model, and hope this one isn't going to rot? -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 8/3/12, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ?? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 12:12 PM   Sorry, Sean.   I wasn’t very clear on that one. Well, as I get older my mind gets ever foggier and I often use murky explanations.   I was not referring to a standard Mantua design but to a standard prototype design 0-6-0 as opposed to a Camel.   Your Mantua data is absolutely correct. At the time the Mite was produced it would be difficult to say much about Mantua’s “standard” diecast locos was there really wasn’t hardly any. If memory serves the Mite was the only loco to use that boiler/cab casting. It was likely a way to get some more miles out the Goat mechanism. Not really all that well known to any but us old farts as it was truly over shadowed the Shifter which arrived 1949 – 1950.   I was surprised at the price also. In fact, the same seller put several early Mantua diecast steamers up for three day auctions at the same time. And they all drew much higher bids that I was expecting. I had a couple I was seriously interested in but not at them prices. This may be a trend as it seems that vintage Mantua diecast has been creeping up. Especially for those who can recognize the early generation Mike’s and Pacific’s with the enclosed worm drives. Could be vintage HO collecting is coming into its own.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:34 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ??     Bill, John,    As a note: The boiler on the Mighty Mite is larger diameter than the boilers that are on the Goat or the the Busy Little B. Therefore they require a larger diameter smokebox cover. The cab is actually not a standard cab in that the screw location for the cab/boiler mount falls right smack in the middle of the cab off of a large/thick post molded inside the cab. The standard cabs mount just behind the forward wall on a much smaller and shorter post.    The one Bill presented was a pretty nice example. Surprised it went that high considering the description. It knocked out my bid on it.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19932	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.

Hi, I am guessing there is supposed to be a link or attachment here? -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 8/3/12, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: al45390 <bayerw2@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 8:52 AM   The photographer goes out of his mind, but I can't blame him. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19933	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

The old 100-watt soldering irons became replaced by the newer 100-150 watt soldering guns. They work very well and I think they are still under $10 as new. Give one a try, they work very well and do an excellent job. I like to reserve epoxy for attaching brass detail parts to zamak cast models. I've been frequently checking eBay for Luma brand 900-watt resistance soldering power units. They throttle nicely to the lower watts for common soldering and work very well below the half-way setting to do difficult soldering of heavy and thick brass. I bought. My first one for $5 a long time ago and I'm still using it. I've been looking for a spare in case it quits on me after 30 years of my use, I bought it used. It got an identical newer one last month for $75 and missed some that sold for $40 and $55 a couple of months before. They retail for a bit over $400 as new and seem to be of a tech that lasts almost forever. My first one was made somewhere in the sixties and was used for many years on the Delco catalytic converter production line. I mostly use DIY  carbon rod holders Built from a Hobby knife and quite similar to a soldering iron. I can make those for less then $5. Damn, they are -good- tools !!!! At the higher settings they vaporize brass handrail wire......... (First try with mine and I only used lower settings after that time.) Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 3, 2012, at 4:21 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: This conversation about the Suydam kits is running parallel to a similar conversation being held on the Fine Scale Miniatures board so I am posting here what I posted on that board about my experiences in building these kits in the past. If you are a member of both boards sorry for the double posting. Back in the 60's - 70's when these kits were popular some modelers soldered them together others assembled them using Goo or similar contact cement.  A bit later in the early 1980's some modelers used the 5 minute Epoxy which does quite well when properly clamped.  Clamping is the key no matter what sort of glue/cement/solder is used.   Even if you go the solder route you will need to clamp the pieces together to assure a good solder joint and that the pieces don't move while the solder is cooling which will result in a bad joint. In several of the builds on my WEB page The Drovers Caboose build or the Matthews Mercantile build I stress clamping of components and that resulted in several blog entries about that subject.  One more thing.  When we assembled those kits back in the 70's the soldering irons we used were very large and heavy and about 100 watts.  You could actually get the lights to dim for a second when you plugged one in to the outlet.  They put out a L O T of heat.  The smaller soldering irons today, even the high wattage units, don't seem to put out that kind of heat.  As I recall some of the mini gas torches will warp the metal so be careful if considering using one of those. Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19934	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/3/2012 3:42 PM, erieberk@... wrote: > For my estimation, there's nothing like the old structure kits, when built > and put on a layout, to help bring back the atmosphere of those vintage > times. Don't know why this topic was hardly touched on before, but I thoroughly > enjoy them. I have a number of these kits including some from Suncoast, > Suydam, Campbell, Alexander, Ideal, Ayres and T.K. Models awaiting time for me > to build them. T.K. Models produced an ERIE Railroad Ramsey Station, of > which the prototype still stand on the ex-Erie main (now, NJ Transit) not too > far from me in north Jersey. With today's epoxies, Suydam kits don't need > to be soldered anymore. Ideal produced many fine looking structures of all > kinds -- a series of about 29 different ones -- not near as many as Campbell > or some others, but still considerable > > Also, have an Ulrich structure kit; they made a nice coaling trestle. > Additionally, there's a Laconia Industries Inc. structure in my collection which > I hope to build someday. Laconia made only one structure kit (but was > better known for rolling stock, including passenger equipment. The sole > structure kit they made was a Campodonico's Wholesale Fruit Warehouse (protoype in > California). Would have to recheck the v Files for the city as I don't > remember where right now. Since I still lack a layout all kits and RTR that I have are in boxes waiting for the magical day that a layout appears in my space. There's a steamer trunk for most of the structures. It's full and purchases of recent years are getting piled on top of it. I guess only a few might be truly vintage by the definition of the group - Dyna Models and Timberline. Campbell and Suydam are "iffy" about being defined as vintage. (See below.) I do have many more craftsman structure kits that, while being out of production, because they were produced more recently may not be considered vintage by some. These include the aforementioned Campbell and Suydam, Fine Scale Miniatures, South River Model Works, and Sheepscot. I especially love the amazing details of the Sheepscot coaling tower, Lime Company and Arcadia Granite kits. > Alpine Models and Ye Olde Huff 'N Puff reissues would not be considered > vintage, but could fill in for one's purposes where a vintage item is missing, > if only to enjoy operating them or having them as part of the > establishments, businesses or houses. Since Campbell is still in production it probably would not be considered vintage either. And then there's the companies that only release limited run kits. Are FSM kits from years A through B vintage while kits from years B through C non-vintage? Personally, I consider anything which is out of production and will unlikely to ever be available again as a new manufacturer's item to be vintage, so IMO all FSM kits are vintage. Others disagree I'm sure. -- Rick Jones "He's an ugly little puss." -Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19935	From: rxensen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks

I have 2 plaster trucks not really finished, I picked up, If any one is interested I could take a picture. Ron Christensen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/3/2012 7:03 AM, Mike Sloane wrote: > I got a dozen or so of those plaster vehicles some time in the early > '70s. A MHS in Maryland advertised them in one of the magazines for > fifty cents each or $5 for the dozen. But I had the impression that > these were made from latex molds of the originals. I seem to recall them > being sold as made by an "Alabaster plaster master caster" or something > like that. I painted mine and piled them up to look like a junk yard. > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/plastervehicles1.html> > According to my caption on the image, they were originally made by the > LeRoy Toy and Novelty Co. of Philadelphia PA. > > Mike > > On 8/3/2012 12:29 AM, John Hagen wrote: >> I have a very limited memory of plaster HO vehicles. It’s like I know >> they existed but never had any. My favorites were the Ulrich trucks >> (still feel their tandem axle bogies haven’t been equaled let alone >> improved upon) and then the Penn Line Ford C cabs. >> > I remember those reproductions, he was also doing a few early Revell and Wiking models in the same series. The original plaster ones had rubber wheels, a'la Tootsietoy, but they were just glued on rather than on axles. I seem to recall some of the plaster originals also being marketed under the"Model Hobbies" name. don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19937	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/3/2012 12:55 PM, cwrailman wrote: Ron, It's interesting that you should mention this.  The Photography page on my WEB site demonstrates some easy methods of photographing models.  O n that page is a topic called A Suggestion O n What to Do With All Those Pictures. I mention projecting the images taken during construction or after the model is installed and critically reviewing them on a flat screen TV. This is a great tool to improve your modeling skills or driving you to drink.  Some 30 years ago a friend of mine had been photographing his railroad using color slides.  We set up to do some high quality B&W for a magazine article we were planning.  Prior to shooting the images on sheet film, I did a few test shots using a Poloroid back on a 4x5 view camera.  When my friend looked at the test shots he started finding all sorts of things wrong that he did not see with the naked eye or in his slides.  The camera is N O T very forgiving. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  I remember reading once that John Allen would look at the scene in a mirror over his shoulder to spot anything missing or out of place.  (This was the days before even "instant" polaroid cameras). Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19938	From: Ben	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Mystery: Vintage Model Railroad Company-Engineering Model Associates

We receive a group of items a while back and in the box is about 50+ small sheets (very thing foam?) of self adhesive shapes (dots, bars arrows, blank, mostly dots of different sizes by Engineering Model Associates (logo - EMA). Anyone have an idea what these sheets are used for? Is there a need for them? Thank you for your assistance. Best Regards, ============== http://DrBens.com/ (WebBLOG) ================ Richard E. Bendever DEBEN LLC, 910 Millvale Place, Lawrenceville, GA 30044-6239 www.DEBENLLC.com | Doctor Ben's Scale Consortium | Scale Model Masterpieces | Thomas A. Yorke Ent. | California Freight & Detail Co.| Ph.: 770.666.8100

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19939	From: rxensen	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks

I posted a picture of Railmaster plaster trucks on Ron's old models. I had 4 models. Ron --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rxensen" <rxensen@...> wrote: > > I have 2 plaster trucks not really finished, I picked up, If any one is interested I could take a picture. > > Ron Christensen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19940	From: louis niederlander	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks

this plaster car business is just fascinating. in the 1960's i worked at Sparks Hobby Shop in Cleveland.  We sold plaster HO 1953 Ford pick up trucks.  For some reason i remember them being from Varney.  I still have one. also, i made latex molds from some Barclay cast toy cars - more O gauge size (very art deco) - for use with some of my pre-war tinplate trains.  I have molded them using Durham water putty and some plaster colorant.  Not bad but i did ask Randy from Downtown Deco for some advice, which he gladly provided.  i guess i was making the mix too thick and should have vibrated the molds. Regards, Louis N   > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: rxensen@... > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 23:03:40 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Plaster cars and trucks > > I posted a picture of Railmaster plaster trucks on Ron's old models. > I had 4 models. > Ron > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rxensen" <rxensen@...> wrote: > > > > I have 2 plaster trucks not really finished, I picked up, If any one is interested I could take a picture. > > > > Ron Christensen > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19941	From: Larry	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Not to knock the expertise and background of this great group, there are already several structure groups already doing the older building kits and cardstock models; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buildingsandstructures http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_paper_models http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HO_Scale_Structures http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PapervilleUSA http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scalemodelcities and that is just a small list of those I currently frequent. Larry Miller III

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19942	From: nativetexan	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Plaster cars and trucks

Guys, I have enjoyed reading about this topic. Even though I have not owned any of the plaster vehicles, I do have several of the resin cars from Greg's Garage. I would be interested in hearing from some of you that have built these. They are obviously not as detailed as some of the modern models but the line offers a lot of cars that fit my era of the 30's-40's. Charles Etheredge

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19943	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.

A senior moment! http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-buzz/train-fanatic-loses-viral-video-dubbed-double-trainbow-201553780.html Walter On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Hi, I am guessing there is supposed to be a link or attachment here? -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 8/3/12, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: al45390 <bayerw2@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 8:52 AM   The photographer goes out of his mind, but I can't blame him. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19944	From: Glenn	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: Re: Plaster cars and trucks

I recall the plaster cars--back in the late 1940's--there was a bus that did not look right to me--too smann looking back it apparently was a "Flxible"--Grehound had a couple in my area for a tricky mountain route. -----Original Message----- From: nativetexan Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 6:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Plaster cars and trucks Guys, I have enjoyed reading about this topic. Even though I have not owned any of the plaster vehicles, I do have several of the resin cars from Greg's Garage. I would be interested in hearing from some of you that have built these. They are obviously not as detailed as some of the modern models but the line offers a lot of cars that fit my era of the 30's-40's. Charles Etheredge ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19945	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.

LOL. Definitely worth watching. And yes, it has to be a parody. No one would get that excited or surprised seeing these two in what is likely their normal stomping grounds.   Of course if they were ALCO’s …………..   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:32 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.     A senior moment!   http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-buzz/train-fanatic-loses-viral-video-dubbed-double-trainbow-201553780.html   Walter On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Hi, I am guessing there is supposed to be a link or attachment here? -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 8/3/12, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: al45390 <bayerw2@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 8:52 AM   The photographer goes out of his mind, but I can't blame him. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19946	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Greg's Garage Re: Plaster cars and trucks

I was just updating my inventory this morning, including listing some duplicates on ebay. I uploaded a file to the files section of the group, Greg's Garage. A spread sheet of pictures of many of the models, but I am always looking to complete the prictures and listing. Kent in KC nvrr49.blogpsot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nativetexan" <ceth512@...> wrote: > > Guys, I have enjoyed reading about this topic. Even though I have not owned any of the plaster vehicles, I do have several of the resin cars from Greg's Garage. I would be interested in hearing from some of you that have built these. They are obviously not as detailed as some of the modern models but the line offers a lot of cars that fit my era of the 30's-40's. > > Charles Etheredge >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19947	From: takefive247	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua on ebay ??

Thanks. Talk about a senior moment. I never gave a thought to it being a Mighty Mite. Seems to me the rarity of the Mighty Mite would have put the price higher. I only find it in the 3rd Ed of the 1948 catalog. That would put it at 1950 or 51. Would that be correct? Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Sorry, Sean. > > > > I wasn’t very clear on that one. Well, as I get older my mind gets ever foggier and I often use murky explanations. > > > > I was not referring to a standard Mantua design but to a standard prototype design 0-6-0 as opposed to a Camel. > > > > Your Mantua data is absolutely correct. At the time the Mite was produced it would be difficult to say much about Mantua’s “standard” diecast locos was there really wasn’t hardly any. If memory serves the Mite was the only loco to use that boiler/cab casting. It was likely a way to get some more miles out the Goat mechanism. Not really all that well known to any but us old farts as it was truly over shadowed the Shifter which arrived 1949 â€" 1950. > > > > I was surprised at the price also. In fact, the same seller put several early Mantua diecast steamers up for three day auctions at the same time. And they all drew much higher bids that I was expecting. I had a couple I was seriously interested in but not at them prices. This may be a trend as it seems that vintage Mantua diecast has been creeping up. Especially for those who can recognize the early generation Mike’s and Pacific’s with the enclosed worm drives. Could be vintage HO collecting is coming into its own. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:34 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua on ebay ?? > > > > > > Bill, John, > > > > As a note: The boiler on the Mighty Mite is larger diameter than the boilers that are on the Goat or the the Busy Little B. Therefore they require a larger diameter smokebox cover. The cab is actually not a standard cab in that the screw location for the cab/boiler mount falls right smack in the middle of the cab off of a large/thick post molded inside the cab. The standard cabs mount just behind the forward wall on a much smaller and shorter post. > > > > The one Bill presented was a pretty nice example. Surprised it went that high considering the description. It knocked out my bid on it. > > > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > _____ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19948	From: Nelson	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.

"And yes, it has to be a parody. No one would get that excited or surprised seeing these two in what is likely their normal stomping grounds." You've never been to North creek, I see. This is easily the most exciting thing he's seen in decades. ;-) Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > LOL. Definitely worth watching. And yes, it has to be a parody. No one would > get that excited or surprised seeing these two in what is likely their > normal stomping grounds. > > > > Of course if they were ALCO's ...... > > > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19949	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.

No but I was stuck a whole week in Texarkana once.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nelson Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 7:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Not H0, but definitely Vintage, and Operating too.     "And yes, it has to be a parody. No one would get that excited or surprised seeing these two in what is likely their normal stomping grounds." You've never been to North creek, I see. This is easily the most exciting thing he's seen in decades. ;-) Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > LOL. Definitely worth watching. And yes, it has to be a parody. No one would > get that excited or surprised seeing these two in what is likely their > normal stomping grounds. > > > > Of course if they were ALCO's ...... > > > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19950	From: Wally Weart	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Plaster cars and trucks

I still have about 6 or 7 cars, a Ford pick up and a classic postal truck. Each is carefully painted and I display them on my layout mixed with the  much newer models. They date back to my first layout and  my Varney Dockside. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19951	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Rick, I see the subject of exactly what "vintage" here represents. somewhat subjective. We would probably need to establish just what "vintage" actually is, when discussing these structures (and probably when discussing engines and rolling stock as well). Checking the Webster's dictionary -- and there are many other dictionaries we might check -- by definition, "vintage" is; 1) A period in which something was made or was begun. 2) The type or model of a particular, especially earlier, time; as an automobile of antique vintage. By this, I find I need to disagree with you when stating that Dyna Models and Timber Line are truly vintage (to which I agree), but that Campbell and Suydam are "iffy." Then too, I see you hadn't included any other manufacturers I've mentioned as truly vintage, even though I touched on Alexander, Ideal, Ayres and Ulrich, etc., although I'd hope you'd consider these as vintage too. From my viewpoint, "vintage" connotates age -- not unlike "antique" although I wouldn't necessarily define vintage as antique.as many other people might. That Campbell is still being produced doesn't seem to have a lot to do with their early kits not being vintage, from where I see it. I'll agree, that many of their kits today are of the same design when they first started production, but I don't feel this negates the fact that their old kits are now vintage as -- while they don't date back to earlier decades of the 40's or '50's (or pre-War) -- they were still pioneers for their time, and going forward.. While I discussed some much earlier structure manufactures (from the early 1950's), such as Majestic, LeRoy and Miniature Fabricators, etc., in a previous post, still, Campbell was making structure kits a good decade or more before Fine Scale Miniatures, as I bought some of my first Campbell kits in 1964. While everybody recognizes that Fine Scale Miniatures are among the best building kits that were ever offered, Dyna Models, Timberline and Suydam were offering their kits by at least 1967 (or possibly a bit earlier). We know they won't beat out Walthers' Bee-Jay Structure kits for earliest production, but as long as Walthers continues to import and sell their lines of Cornerstone (starting in 1992), Faller, Vollmer, Kibri, Brawa (all from the previous late 70's -- early '80's era) and other lines, by another defintion of "vintage," these kits will never be seen as such, even though many of them have been marketed for a good while now. Actually, in general I don't consider at kit (rolling stock or engine) to be vintage if not first produced by the mid-1970's, and that's stretching it -- and then - they'd have to be produced by the original manufacturer, not a re-do like Ye Olde Huff N Puff or even like Walthers' line of Pacific HO (Silver Streak) cars. As much as I enjoy Varney's products, I don't consider Sol Kramer's continuation of that line "vintage," even if they're still "collectable." regardless of this opinion. But, as I see it, "vintage" has little to do with a company still producing kits today. I'd have to give some credit to these manufacturers contributing to the hobby starting at an early age, and their early products being recognized for that. Perhaps the terms "vintage" and "collectible" shouldn't be used in the same context here, as seldom are structure kits collected for the purpose of completing a series of anything. They're usually bought for their specific needs on one's layout and their purpose of filling in just what we want them to be used for. By this, I believe "vintage," as pertains to structures, could include many of the kits that were first produced from the mid -' 70's, and there were a large number of individual structure manufacturers just coming onto the market back then. The late 1970's into the early 1980's had to be a virtual explosion of building kits as there were no fewer than 70 different lines of structure kits being introduced in this time frame. Of course, many are out of production, some for an extended time now, but others more recently falling by the wayside. Of them, I fail to see why these kits, having been first offered only 30 or so years ago, would be considered as being "vintage" just because they are out of production. Perhaps "vintage" may also take into consideration the similarity of material and construction methods to those of earlier years since many of us prefer them to Revell-type (or Bachmann) structures, although this in itself has nothing to do with age -- it's just a preference of some -- yet they are no longer made (but also represent a transition period in construction) and they're older than most. Perhaps this is where we draw the line on them being vintage. Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19952	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/5/2012 1:38 PM, erieberk@... wrote: > Rick, > > I see the subject of exactly what "vintage" here represents. somewhat > subjective. We would probably need to establish just what "vintage" actually is, > when discussing these structures (and probably when discussing engines and > rolling stock as well). Checking the Webster's dictionary -- and there are > many other dictionaries we might check -- by definition, "vintage" is; 1) A > period in which something was made or was begun. 2) The type or model of a > particular, especially earlier, time; as an automobile of antique vintage. > > By this, I find I need to disagree with you when stating that Dyna Models > and Timber Line are truly vintage (to which I agree), but that Campbell and > Suydam are "iffy." Then too, I see you hadn't included any other > manufacturers I've mentioned as truly vintage, even though I touched on Alexander, > Ideal, Ayres and Ulrich, etc., although I'd hope you'd consider these as vintage > too. > > >From my viewpoint, "vintage" connotates age -- not unlike "antique" > although I wouldn't necessarily define vintage as antique.as many other people > might. That Campbell is still being produced doesn't seem to have a lot to do > with their early kits not being vintage, from where I see it. I'll agree, > that many of their kits today are of the same design when they first started > production, but I don't feel this negates the fact that their old kits are > now vintage as -- while they don't date back to earlier decades of the 40's or > '50's (or pre-War) -- they were still pioneers for their time, and going > forward.. > > While I discussed some much earlier structure manufactures (from the early > 1950's), such as Majestic, LeRoy and Miniature Fabricators, etc., in a > previous post, still, Campbell was making structure kits a good decade or more > before Fine Scale Miniatures, as I bought some of my first Campbell kits in > 1964. While everybody recognizes that Fine Scale Miniatures are among the > best building kits that were ever offered, Dyna Models, Timberline and Suydam > were offering their kits by at least 1967 (or possibly a bit earlier). > > We know they won't beat out Walthers' Bee-Jay Structure kits for earliest > production, but as long as Walthers continues to import and sell their lines > of Cornerstone (starting in 1992), Faller, Vollmer, Kibri, Brawa (all from > the previous late 70's -- early '80's era) and other lines, by another > defintion of "vintage," these kits will never be seen as such, even though many > of them have been marketed for a good while now. > > Actually, in general I don't consider at kit (rolling stock or engine) to > be vintage if not first produced by the mid-1970's, and that's stretching it > -- and then - they'd have to be produced by the original manufacturer, not a > re-do like Ye Olde Huff N Puff or even like Walthers' line of Pacific HO > (Silver Streak) cars. As much as I enjoy Varney's products, I don't consider > Sol Kramer's continuation of that line "vintage," even if they're still > "collectable." regardless of this opinion. But, as I see it, "vintage" has > little to do with a company still producing kits today. I'd have to give some > credit to these manufacturers contributing to the hobby starting at an early > age, and their early products being recognized for that. > > Perhaps the terms "vintage" and "collectible" shouldn't be used in the same > context here, as seldom are structure kits collected for the purpose of > completing a series of anything. They're usually bought for their specific > needs on one's layout and their purpose of filling in just what we want them to > be used for. By this, I believe "vintage," as pertains to structures, > could include many of the kits that were first produced from the mid -' 70's, > and there were a large number of individual structure manufacturers just > coming onto the market back then. The late 1970's into the early 1980's had to > be a virtual explosion of building kits as there were no fewer than 70 > different lines of structure kits being introduced in this time frame. Of course, > many are out of production, some for an extended time now, but others more > recently falling by the wayside. Of them, I fail to see why these kits, > having been first offered only 30 or so years ago, would be considered as being > "vintage" just because they are out of production. Perhaps "vintage" may > also take into consideration the similarity of material and construction > methods to those of earlier years since many of us prefer them to Revell-type > (or Bachmann) structures, although this in itself has nothing to do with age > -- it's just a preference of some -- yet they are no longer made (but also > represent a transition period in construction) and they're older than most. > Perhaps this is where we draw the line on them being vintage. > > Ray F.W. </HTML> > This discussion has come up a couple times. I especially have to agree with mot of the sentiments you express, especially in your last paragraph, although I disagree with categorically rejecting the "reissue" manufacturers. When I originally started the group I was referring to "Vintage" as anything early 1960's or older. As I stated in the introduction to the group, "The trains we grew up with". Over the years, this has evolved into more of a "feeling" or a "style" rather than a hard and fast date rule. Now it's more of anything that represents a type or style of modelling we don't see anymore in this age of "ready to run" from China. Almost any "craftsman" type kit (with the possible exception of the resin kits from people like Westerfield or F&C) is a type of modelling that the average model railroader just doesn't do anymore. Don - Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19953	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Vintage and antique have been challenged in courts and apparently the definition has been established that the item must possess most of the characteristics of the identical item at time of original design.  It is that law that stipulates a car buff can buy a fiberglass REPLICA of a 1934 Ford, put it on a REPLICA 1934 Ford frame, install a modern engine trans and differential, have modern interior and still qualify for Antique/Vintage license plates and if you look at the title it is titled as a 1934 Ford.   This is the law in at least five states I am familiar with.   It is also the reason all the reproduction brake, interior, cooling, ignition, tires and carburetor parts on my 1955 Chevy which are all done to better than factory specs, do nothing to change it's status from O riginal.  With that thought in mind kits such as Campbell would be considered vintage because they adhere to the original design.   The date of manufacture is totally irrelevant. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Rick, > > I see the subject of exactly what "vintage" here represents. somewhat > subjective. We would probably need to establish just what "vintage" actually is, > when discussing these structures (and probably when discussing engines and > rolling stock as well). Checking the Webster's dictionary -- and there are > many other dictionaries we might check -- by definition, "vintage" is; 1) A > period in which something was made or was begun. 2) The type or model of a > particular, especially earlier, time; as an automobile of antique vintage. > > By this, I find I need to disagree with you when stating that Dyna Models > and Timber Line are truly vintage (to which I agree), but that Campbell and > Suydam are "iffy." Then too, I see you hadn't included any other > manufacturers I've mentioned as truly vintage, even though I touched on Alexander, > Ideal, Ayres and Ulrich, etc., although I'd hope you'd consider these as vintage > too. > > From my viewpoint, "vintage" connotates age -- not unlike "antique" > although I wouldn't necessarily define vintage as antique.as many other people > might. That Campbell is still being produced doesn't seem to have a lot to do > with their early kits not being vintage, from where I see it. I'll agree, > that many of their kits today are of the same design when they first started > production, but I don't feel this negates the fact that their old kits are > now vintage as -- while they don't date back to earlier decades of the 40's or > '50's (or pre-War) -- they were still pioneers for their time, and going > forward.. > > While I discussed some much earlier structure manufactures (from the early > 1950's), such as Majestic, LeRoy and Miniature Fabricators, etc., in a > previous post, still, Campbell was making structure kits a good decade or more > before Fine Scale Miniatures, as I bought some of my first Campbell kits in > 1964. While everybody recognizes that Fine Scale Miniatures are among the > best building kits that were ever offered, Dyna Models, Timberline and Suydam > were offering their kits by at least 1967 (or possibly a bit earlier). > > We know they won't beat out Walthers' Bee-Jay Structure kits for earliest > production, but as long as Walthers continues to import and sell their lines > of Cornerstone (starting in 1992), Faller, Vollmer, Kibri, Brawa (all from > the previous late 70's -- early '80's era) and other lines, by another > defintion of "vintage," these kits will never be seen as such, even though many > of them have been marketed for a good while now. > > Actually, in general I don't consider at kit (rolling stock or engine) to > be vintage if not first produced by the mid-1970's, and that's stretching it > -- and then - they'd have to be produced by the original manufacturer, not a > re-do like Ye Olde Huff N Puff or even like Walthers' line of Pacific HO > (Silver Streak) cars. As much as I enjoy Varney's products, I don't consider > Sol Kramer's continuation of that line "vintage," even if they're still > "collectable." regardless of this opinion. But, as I see it, "vintage" has > little to do with a company still producing kits today. I'd have to give some > credit to these manufacturers contributing to the hobby starting at an early > age, and their early products being recognized for that. > > Perhaps the terms "vintage" and "collectible" shouldn't be used in the same > context here, as seldom are structure kits collected for the purpose of > completing a series of anything. They're usually bought for their specific > needs on one's layout and their purpose of filling in just what we want them to > be used for. By this, I believe "vintage," as pertains to structures, > could include many of the kits that were first produced from the mid -' 70's, > and there were a large number of individual structure manufacturers just > coming onto the market back then. The late 1970's into the early 1980's had to > be a virtual explosion of building kits as there were no fewer than 70 > different lines of structure kits being introduced in this time frame. Of course, > many are out of production, some for an extended time now, but others more > recently falling by the wayside. Of them, I fail to see why these kits, > having been first offered only 30 or so years ago, would be considered as being > "vintage" just because they are out of production. Perhaps "vintage" may > also take into consideration the similarity of material and construction > methods to those of earlier years since many of us prefer them to Revell-type > (or Bachmann) structures, although this in itself has nothing to do with age > -- it's just a preference of some -- yet they are no longer made (but also > represent a transition period in construction) and they're older than most. > Perhaps this is where we draw the line on them being vintage. > > Ray F.W. </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19954	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

On 8/5/2012 1:38 PM, erieberk@... wrote: > Rick, > > I see the subject of exactly what "vintage" here represents. somewhat > subjective. We would probably need to establish just what "vintage" actually is, > when discussing these structures (and probably when discussing engines and > rolling stock as well). Checking the Webster's dictionary -- and there are > many other dictionaries we might check -- by definition, "vintage" is; 1) A > period in which something was made or was begun. 2) The type or model of a > particular, especially earlier, time; as an automobile of antique vintage. > > By this, I find I need to disagree with you when stating that Dyna Models > and Timber Line are truly vintage (to which I agree), but that Campbell and > Suydam are "iffy." Then too, I see you hadn't included any other > manufacturers I've mentioned as truly vintage, even though I touched on Alexander, > Ideal, Ayres and Ulrich, etc., although I'd hope you'd consider these as vintage > too. I mentioned only manufacturers whose kits I own, and at that I only own one each of kits from Timberline and Dyna Models. The various other structure manufacturers that were around decades ago aren't very familiar to me if I never purchased any of them. -- Rick Jones If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried before.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19955	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

> When I originally started the group I was > referring to "Vintage" as anything early 1960's or older. As I stated > in the introduction to the group, "The trains we grew up with". Over > the years, this has evolved into more of a "feeling" or a "style" rather > than a hard and fast date rule. Now it's more of anything that > represents a type or style of modelling we don't see anymore in this age > of "ready to run" from China. Almost any "craftsman" type kit (with > the possible exception of the resin kits from people like Westerfield or > F&C) is a type of modelling that the average model railroader just > doesn't do anymore. This is more or less why I see "vintage" as being based on type of construction more than actual years of availability. A Sheepscot kit made in the '90s is similar in assembly to a Campbell kit from the '60s, so in building it it "feels" vintage to me. Peruse the pages of Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette and you find ads from many manufacturers that are making kits using construction techniques not far different from a kit made 60 years ago. Many are laser cut, eliminating much of the measuring and cutting to length of the olden days but the basic techniques are still the same so they "feel" vintage. If the criteria is "...anything early 1960's or older..." then I'm not sure what I have that meets that criteria. It wasn't until the late '60s that I began to buy things like Campbell, Silver Streak, Central Valley, and the like. I have no idea whether those were made in the '50s or earlier or not. As I said previously, if it's out of production and has been for at least 10 years, then that seems vintage to me. -- Rick Jones "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19956	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Hi Don, Somehow, I knew you could clarify this (and half-expected you to). I know you must have had something in mind as representing "Vintage" when you started this group, and I'm glad to see you did have an approximate date in mind when doing so. Of course, you must have seen other's here posting that they collect and operate models as late as the early ' 70's (I also do myself), but your threshold makes perfect sense. You may have noticed, that I mentioned -- Perhaps "vintage" may take into consideration the similarity of material and construction methods to those of earlier years . . . In other words, I'm referring to just that era which you're talking about. I also referred to the transitional period in construction -- those kits still resembling the earlier ones, yet newer in years, although apologetically I was thinking about those kits being of earlier design but being produced still in the early ' 70's as islands among the newer types of shake-the-box kits. Many thanks for your input here again. I'll give Sol Kramer's offerings another chance, as well as Bowser's (Lew English) continuation of the Penn Line engines. Sure, I have them! Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19957	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Denny, you make a good point, and one that reflects my same sentiments, at least on the earlier productions of these manufacturers. Campbell, Suydam, Alexander, Dyna Models and many other similar kits have all stuck to their original designs. As for "operating the trains we grew up with," as Don reminds us, I can't say that operating something that I just bought new today would have that same feeling despite its similarity to older runs. While Walthers' Silver Streak line had for the most part following the original Pacific H0 -- even to using the same roadnumbers on the same roadnames they re-issued, I'm wondering where that puts Walthers' other Silver Streak cars that were new issues other than what Pacific HO issued. Yes, these Walthers re-issues (having new roadnames and numbers) weren't produced until the later ' 70's, so I guess that answers it, but then they're still the same design. One thing I'm not sure of you saying though, is whether you feel that current day Campbell is "vintage" -- as would seem to be the case since you brought up fiberglass replica autos today being considered vintage. One point I think most of us are considering here is that the older kits -- even Campbell which is still being produced -- retained their original construction materials; they are not made of resin or anything other than what was used originally. I think Don has the best definition of what "vintage" means on this Group, as it's whatever he had in mind when he started it. We can't argue with his reasons in starting the List. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19958	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

Rick, Thanks for your reply. BTW, I also have a couple of Hometown kits; produced in the late ' 70's though, I believe -- even though they too resembled construction methods decades earlier. No matter what either of us may feel as "vintage" however, Don has the final answer to it. Best, Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19959	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

All, As if we don't have enough thoughts on what is vintage, I will offer mine: As some here know, I am likely the "baby" of the group, at 28 years old. Therefore, these models were old even when I was born. On the other hand, many of my friends firmly believe I was intended to be born in 1924, being born in 1984 was an accident of some kind. In any event, I also have a form of Autism called Aperger's Syndrome. While fairly mild in me, it makes me a bit more responsive to sensory feelings around me. This is part of my interest in vintage model trains: An antique or vintage model does not carry the same sensory weight as something new. Even the new Alpine kits made like the old Suydam models, are, to me, completely different. The old models, for one thing, have a certain smell to them, which is quite pleasing. I can smell it faintly even if others can't. Plus the tactile feel is off as well. Old wood does not feel the same as new to me. Plastics? Forget it. I find myself frequently washing my hands after handling newer types, especially the greasy or slick feeling ones. I hate those with a passion! For a while I had very, very few plastic trains in my roster. Now  I have a lot of Mantua, Tyco, Athearn (Older ones, mostly from their earlier plastic offerings), and AHM, because I've been given tons of these things over the past few years. As they are gifts, and entrusted to me by those who wish to pass them on to someone who will use them, I do just that! It's hard for me to call new Campbell or Alpine kits "vintage" in any way, even "vintage style". But I do so for simplicity's sake, around others who have limited knowledge of model trains. But, I do believe in calling them "old style craftsman" kits, as opposed to the new plastic kits out there. As I explain to the uninitiated, the new plastic kits are more "piece 1 connects to piece 2", whereas the old style kits are "study this blueprint and written instructions. When done it should look like the photos. Good luck." Using that, Campbell and Suydam fit in nicely, and I also use that concept to describe my scratchbuilt structures, as their methods of construction are very similar, except that I also made the blueprint, even if it only exists in my mind. Anyway,  I had more thoughts on the matter, but it seems that that train of thought is held at a block signal right now! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 8/5/12, erieberk@... <erieberk@...> wrote: From: erieberk@... <erieberk@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: What about vintage structures kits? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 11:00 PM   Rick, Thanks for your reply. BTW, I also have a couple of Hometown kits; produced in the late ' 70's though, I believe -- even though they too resembled construction methods decades earlier. No matter what either of us may feel as "vintage" however, Don has the final answer to it. Best, Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19960	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/6/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

The issue on Campbell 's current production being classified as vintage will be moot in several years as they have made an investment in laser cutting equipment and are now moving toward having all their kits laser cut.  I would have difficulty classifying those kits as vintage.  However at that point I hope they take that opportunity to correct some of the other issues such as oversized components in some cases.  I hear that LaBelle is moving in the same direction. However IMH O , nobody can argue with the fact that the excellent instructions written by Sherry Collins will continue to be among the best.  I'll bet that most if not all the folks on this board have at least one Campbell kit either built or on their to be built shelf. If you have not seen it, I did a build of Matthews Mercantile which is posted on my WEB site. I was just mentioning that resin repro Ford because it has always puzzled me how those can be classified as Antique when none of the parts existed prior to a few years ago.  Hey Don, listening to Little Cobra Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Denny, you make a good point, and one that reflects my same sentiments, at > least on the earlier productions of these manufacturers. Campbell, Suydam, > Alexander, Dyna Models and many other similar kits have all stuck to their > original designs. As for "operating the trains we grew up with," as Don > reminds us, I can't say that operating something that I just bought new today > would have that same feeling despite its similarity to older runs. > > While Walthers' Silver Streak line had for the most part following the > original Pacific H0 -- even to using the same roadnumbers on the same roadnames > they re-issued, I'm wondering where that puts Walthers' other Silver Streak > cars that were new issues other than what Pacific HO issued. Yes, these > Walthers re-issues (having new roadnames and numbers) weren't produced until > the later ' 70's, so I guess that answers it, but then they're still the same > design. > > One thing I'm not sure of you saying though, is whether you feel that > current day Campbell is "vintage" -- as would seem to be the case since you > brought up fiberglass replica autos today being considered vintage. One point I > think most of us are considering here is that the older kits -- even > Campbell which is still being produced -- retained their original construction > materials; they are not made of resin or anything other than what was used > originally. I think Don has the best definition of what "vintage" means on this > Group, as it's whatever he had in mind when he started it. We can't argue > with his reasons in starting the List. > > Ray F. W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19961	From: al45390	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?

See Ebay # 360478755263.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19962	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Re: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?

They look like Penn Line cars to me.  As far as I know, Lionel used only Athearn stainless cars.   Brad   In a message dated 8/7/2012 8:44:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bayerw2@... writes:   See Ebay # 360478755263.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19963	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Re: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?

No, they are not Lionel HO passenger cars.  They do look like Penn Line, but do not show the tabs in the bottom of the car sides.  Where the paint is chipped off, shows a gray that could be Zamac.  Then these would be cast metal John English cars that are earlier then Penn-Line.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of al45390 Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 9:44 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?     See Ebay # 360478755263.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19964	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/7/2012
Subject: Re: Are these Lionel H0 passenger cars?

If these cars are plastic they were made by John English under the HObbyline name. If they are metal they were made under the John English name. When sold in a set it was usually an RPO and 2 coaches. They were the only 2 styles of heavyweight cars made. The cars on eBay have none of the heavy plastic working couplers HObbyline had on their cars that I can see.  Later Penn Line bought out the designs and made more types of plastic heavyweight cars. John English under the HObbyline name also started making streamlined cars ( Coach and Obs ) They were also bought out by Penn Line who expanded the number of streamlined cars.                                                 Jim H On 8/7/2012 9:44 AM, al45390 wrote:   See Ebay # 360478755263.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19965	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Won project on eBay

> > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19966	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Jim.   Nice 4-8-2. I agree the trailing truck looks incorrect but that’s a minor problem. Have fun.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 12:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay     > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19967	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

That looks to be an interesting project for you.  It appears to be easier than the last one so far.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay     > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19968	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Tender looks like a  Varney. That might be a starting point, at least. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 8/8/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2012, 12:01 PM   > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19969	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Jim-   It appears to be a Bowser 4-8-2 in its more recent incarnation.  Bowser supplied the Varney tender with this engine, as they made that too.  The trailing truck is the same as used on the Bowser NYC K11 Pacific.   Richard Dipping -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 12:01 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19970	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Hey Jim, I guess it is a good thing I did not bid much more than $32. Didn't know you were bidding on it too. I was curious to see who made it myself. Glad to see you got it so now I may still get to find out.   Good pick up my friend!   Sean Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19971	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/8/2012
Subject: Printed car sides

Attachments : SCAN0003.JPG Hello, all-   If you have some old printed carsides in your collection, but don't want to actually use them up, you can do a scan and print on your computer to make duplicates.  You can also change car numbers if you want multiples on your layout, or if you have only 1 side you can make a second.   Richard Dipping.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19972	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Hi Guys - I have just been looking at some of my Aristo-Craft "New One Models" engines and I would identify Jim's new win as an A/C USRA Mountain on a chassis that could be the Mountain drive with some valve gear parts from a Mike (however, Mike's valve gear is driven from the third drivers, rather than the second as with the Mountain).  The same tender was used on both. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Cc: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hey Jim, I guess it is a good thing I did not bid much more than $32. Didn't know you were bidding on it too. I was curious to see who made it myself. Glad to see you got it so now I may still get to find out.   Good pick up my friend!   Sean Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19973	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Reed -- I never saw one of the New One mountains "live" and I assumed that it never made it to manufacture.  I kind of recollect that the magazine ad photos were prototype pictures.  But I could be (and probably am) wrong.  John B. Allyn From: estabrook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: estabrook@..., "reed estabrook" <reed.estabrook@...> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 7:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hi Guys - I have just been looking at some of my Aristo-Craft "New One Models" engines and I would identify Jim's new win as an A/C USRA Mountain on a chassis that could be the Mountain drive with some valve gear parts from a Mike (however, Mike's valve gear is driven from the third drivers, rather than the second as with the Mountain).  The same tender was used on both. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Cc: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hey Jim, I guess it is a good thing I did not bid much more than $32. Didn't know you were bidding on it too. I was curious to see who made it myself. Glad to see you got it so now I may still get to find out.   Good pick up my friend!   Sean Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19974	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

With much speculation on what this "new project" was originally marketed as, I can only say that due to what I'm receiving as pics on the eBay site, they're too dark and muddy for me to make out with much certainty -- not to mention that the photo angles needed to see more details in determining the manufacturer aren't there. It's definitely a USRA Mountain, but more than that, I can't be sure. One determining factor is that the Aristo-Craft USRA Mountain has the sanding piping cast onto the boiler, from the sand dome (first dome in back of the smoke stack) down to the running boards on each side. I have a new in-the-box Aristo-Craft USRA Mountain, complete with the red velvet box liner, so it was produced under this manufacturer (I can't say if it was ever produced under the "New One" name). On the other hand, the Bowser USRA| Mountain does not have these sanding pipes molded on to the boiler. The original cast zamak Bowser USRA Mountain marketed in the Penn Line box with the Bowser label did not come with a tender (I have one, new in box). The intermediate cast zamak Bowser USRA Mountain came with a Bowser long-haul tender (I have two, new in box). Rich may be right when saying this could be the last version of the cast zamak Bowser USRA Mountain, coming with the Varney tender, if there are no sanding pipes cast onto the boiler. I can't see any as the pics I'm getting aren't very sharp and they're dark. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19975	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Hi John - The "live" one I have now is in my display case - I even have the original box!   I'll try to scan a picture later. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: john.allyn <john.allyn@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:28 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Reed -- I never saw one of the New One mountains "live" and I assumed that it never made it to manufacture.  I kind of recollect that the magazine ad photos were prototype pictures.  But I could be (and probably am) wrong.  John B. Allyn From: estabrook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: estabrook@..., "reed estabrook" <reed.estabrook@...> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 7:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hi Guys - I have just been looking at some of my Aristo-Craft "New One Models" engines and I would identify Jim's new win as an A/C USRA Mountain on a chassis that could be the Mountain drive with some valve gear parts from a Mike (however, Mike's valve gear is driven from the third drivers, rather than the second as with the Mountain).  The same tender was used on both. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Cc: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hey Jim, I guess it is a good thing I did not bid much more than $32. Didn't know you were bidding on it too. I was curious to see who made it myself. Glad to see you got it so now I may still get to find out.   Good pick up my friend!   Sean Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19976	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Aristo Craft/ New One Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8358.JPG IMG_8357.JPG IMG_8356.JPG Reed / J B Allyn, First two pictures show a manufactured Aristo Craft Mountain from my collection. They were produced by New One. The last two pictures show a catalog with the Mountain on the front. Inside there are 15 or 16cast metal New One engines that were made. Go to HOseeker to see each page. The only one ( last picture ) that I have never seen and I don't think produced was the Mason Boogie ( last picture ). If some one has seen this one let me know. Aristo Craft was the name used by Polk's Hobby of New York. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 19977	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Everyone --   When I'm wrong I'm spectacularly wrong!  John B. Allyn From: estabrook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: estabrook@... Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 10:12:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hi John - The "live" one I have now is in my display case - I even have the original box!   I'll try to scan a picture later. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: john.allyn <john.allyn@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:28 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Reed -- I never saw one of the New One mountains "live" and I assumed that it never made it to manufacture.  I kind of recollect that the magazine ad photos were prototype pictures.  But I could be (and probably am) wrong.  John B. Allyn From: estabrook@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: estabrook@..., "reed estabrook" <reed.estabrook@...> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 7:46:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hi Guys - I have just been looking at some of my Aristo-Craft "New One Models" engines and I would identify Jim's new win as an A/C USRA Mountain on a chassis that could be the Mountain drive with some valve gear parts from a Mike (however, Mike's valve gear is driven from the third drivers, rather than the second as with the Mountain).  The same tender was used on both. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Cc: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   Hey Jim, I guess it is a good thing I did not bid much more than $32. Didn't know you were bidding on it too. I was curious to see who made it myself. Glad to see you got it so now I may still get to find out.   Good pick up my friend!   Sean Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   > > Well I have a new project I won on eBay to fool around with. Go > to 261076197071 Die Cast HO Scale with Soundboard and Fly Wheel > Motor. I felt the price was right. Haven't even had much chance to > study whose it might be. No guess right now but feel free to take a > stab. I know it has no tender trucks and the trailing wheel on the > engine looks wrong but I'll wait till it comes to compare. Won't be > for my vintage collection but can fit into my fantasy collection. > > And because of my wanting vintage it might have the Helix > Humper Motor and the Sound Board taken out. We'll see . No matter what > something to fool with. > > Jim H =

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19978	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

John,   Ain’t no sense going halfway; I never do.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john.allyn@... Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay     Everyone --   When I'm wrong I'm spectacularly wrong!  John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19979	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: identified ?

I want to thank everyone who had a guess what my new project engine is. I honestly had no guess . Pictures of the top would have helped. Since now I believe it to be the newer Bowser Mountain as some have guessed it is to new for me to recognize. I bought it as a repair project not for my vintage collection. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19980	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

LOL! Got that right!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:38 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   John,   Ain’t no sense going halfway; I never do.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john.allyn@... Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay     Everyone --   When I'm wrong I'm spectacularly wrong!  John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19981	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

I have been sent to my workshop and ordered to remove zamac coupler pockets with a file until I have learned my lesson.  John B. Allyn From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 4:45:15 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   LOL! Got that right!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:38 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay   John,   Ain’t no sense going halfway; I never do.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john.allyn@... Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay     Everyone --   When I'm wrong I'm spectacularly wrong!  John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19982	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/9/2012
Subject: Re: Won project on eBay

Hi,all-   The thing that gives it away as a late generation Bowser Mountain is the cab, which didn't follow USRA design.  Bowser was eliminating the antimony/lead boiler castings and sinking new dies for zamak boilers.  The lead boilers had been cast in rubber molds and zamak was too hot to use that method. The new boilers did not conform exactly to the old. The roof was flatter than it should have been, and the roof overhang was extra long -  it just didn't look right to me. I've had an Aristo 4-8-2 since the '60s and the cab is acurrately modeled.   Richard.. -----Original Message----- From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:49 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won project on eBay With much speculation on what this "new project" was originally marketed as, I can only say that due to what I'm receiving as pics on the eBay site, they're too dark and muddy for me to make out with much certainty -- not to mention that the photo angles needed to see more details in determining the manufacturer aren't there. It's definitely a USRA Mountain, but more than that, I can't be sure. One determining factor is that the Aristo-Craft USRA Mountain has the sanding piping cast onto the boiler, from the sand dome (first dome in back of the smoke stack) down to the running boards on each side. I have a new in-the-box Aristo-Craft USRA Mountain, complete with the red velvet box liner, so it was produced under this manufacturer (I can't say if it was ever produced under the "New One" name). On the other hand, the Bowser USRA| Mountain does not have these sanding pipes molded on to the boiler. The original cast zamak Bowser USRA Mountain marketed in the Penn Line box with the Bowser label did not come with a tender (I have one, new in box). The intermediate cast zamak Bowser USRA Mountain came with a Bowser long-haul tender (I have two, new in box). Rich may be right when saying this could be the last version of the cast zamak Bowser USRA Mountain, coming with the Varney tender, if there are no sanding pipes cast onto the boiler. I can't see any as the pics I'm getting aren't very sharp and they're dark. Ray F. W.</HTML> ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19983	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: Printed car sides

You might also try printing your scans on Staples or Avery full-sheet (ie, uncut 8½" x 11" sheets) adhesive-backed label paper. Avery 05625 TrueBlock paper is good for color laser printers. It's a bright white and has no show-through of images underneath. It will pass through even the cheapest printer without jamming or being slow on the paper feed. You can also use this method for model buildings, eg from the Dover series. Sticking the images on styrene sheet rather than cutting them out of the book gives a much more solid and durable building, especially in areas with high humidity (like a damp basement), where warping is a problem with card buildings. You don't need really thick styrene. The fact that it doesn't expand or contract with water content is enough to stabilize the parts. You do have to allow for the additional thickness of the styrene when cutting and joining parts. Sometimes a mitred joint works better than a butt joint. Use a sharp knife or a rotary paper cutter to get a clean cut through the laminated material. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Hello, all- > > If you have some old printed carsides in your collection, but don't want to actually use them up, you can do a scan and print on your computer to make duplicates. You can also change car numbers if you want multiples on your layout, or if you have only 1 side you can make a second. > > Richard Dipping. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19984	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Walthers BART cars

I recently acquired an old Walthers BART set (motor+trailer+motor). Its once-adhesive appliqués no longer stick to it. Does anyone have an unbuilt BART set with labels still flat on their sheets? If so, I would really appreciate a full-size color scan, which I could use to make new labels or decals. My e-mail is dw.mckercher@... No doubt there are others with the same issue. Maybe you could post it here in the photos section. Thanks, Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19985	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: Walthers BART cars

Hi Doug, If you're referring to the aluminum-bodied BART Models advertised in Walthers' mid-1970's catalog, of the logos and door outlines -- rather than the plastic-bodied American GK Locomotive Works Bart model advertised in the Walthers late-1970's catalog -- these are dry-transfer rub ons. While there have been many occasions where it would have been very helpful (sometimes to me, or sometimes to the Group or a member) to have been able to send a pic through the 'Net with a message, I've never been able to learn how to do that -- and no one has ever volunteered to tell or show me -- and I'm too old to want to go to computer school just to learn how to do a few things on it. I have a couple of sets of them, if it's the earlier BART Models ones you need and could snail mail you a color copy of them if you'd want to send me your mailing address to < erieberk@... >. I'd advise your having decal sets made of them, and could recommend an excellent source for this service who is not only reasonable, but who would consider doing runs of only a few without charging a premium price. He made a couple of sets for one of my Penn Line Reading Crusaders and a five car set of passenger cars, after I sent him an original Penn Line Crusader decal set to use as a master copy. Incidentally, a friend of mine gave me one of the BART Models kits that are advertised in Walthers 1975 catalog, having the aluminum bodies, although it only contains kits for one power car and one trailer car (he must have built the other power car and misplaced it). If you, or any other member would like to add to your present aluminum-bodied BART Models train, I'd be willing to sell it. It's complete for the two units (one power car and one trailer car) , including all the paper work. You may use the same email address I supplied above. Similar to how ROHR Turboliners here in the East were added to or deleted from according to the traffic demand, it appears that BART train lengths were also similarly adjusted in Oakland as the traffic demanded. Most often, I've seen 5-car sets of the BART cars with 3 trailers and a power car at each end, although I'm not sure what's "normal." Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19986	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: signs on label stock (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Printed car sides

I have been having a problem with printed paper signs (curling, glue not sticking, etc), and I suspect that this might be a good solution for that problem also. I am going to pick up a pack of that stuff today and try it out. Mike On 8/10/2012 4:00 AM, Douglas wrote: > You might also try printing your scans on Staples or Avery full-sheet > (ie, uncut 8½" x 11" sheets) adhesive-backed label paper. Avery 05625 > TrueBlock paper is good for color laser printers. It's a bright white > and has no show-through of images underneath. It will pass through even > the cheapest printer without jamming or being slow on the paper feed. > > You can also use this method for model buildings, eg from the Dover > series. Sticking the images on styrene sheet rather than cutting them > out of the book gives a much more solid and durable building, especially > in areas with high humidity (like a damp basement), where warping is a > problem with card buildings. > > You don't need really thick styrene. The fact that it doesn't expand or > contract with water content is enough to stabilize the parts. You do > have to allow for the additional thickness of the styrene when cutting > and joining parts. Sometimes a mitred joint works better than a butt > joint. Use a sharp knife or a rotary paper cutter to get a clean cut > through the laminated material. > > Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19987	From: jay matz	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock (was Re: [vintageHO] Re: Printed car sides

Mike I have used Avery label paper for roofs ans sines. after a time they start lifting and come off. I have gone back to the old tried and true white glue,they don't come off. Jay Matz Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: New Members 2 New Files 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19988	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: signs on label stock

Thanks for the warning, Jay. I haven't had that problem yet, and don't look forward to it. How long did the deterioration take? Was your model exposed to prolonged direct sunlight? Direct sun can also fade the color printing, although less so with laser prints than with inkjet. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Mike > I have used Avery label paper for roofs ans sines. after a time they start lifting and come off. > I have gone back to the old tried and true white glue,they don't come off. > Jay Matz > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) > Recent Activity: * New Members 2 * New Files 1 > Visit Your Group > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use > . >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19989	From: jay matz	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock

Doug About a year I noticed that they started to lift. Rubbed back down that lasted a little wile and came up again. I will not use that again. Jay Matz > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) > Recent Activity: * New Members 2 * New Files 1 > Visit Your Group > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use > . >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19990	From: Douglas	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock

Hi Jay, I've had some in place for three years with no lifting, so I figured they were fairly safe, but as Stephen King says, "everything's eventual." Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Doug > About a year I noticed that they started to lift. Rubbed back down that lasted a little wile and came up again. > I will not use that again. > Jay Matz > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) > > Recent Activity: * New Members 2 * New Files 1 > > Visit Your Group > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use > > . > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19991	From: RalphB	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: What about vintage structures kits?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny (CWRailman) wrote: > > What Models Hobbies kits do you have? I am looking for info on one in > particular. It was a 2 story house kit. It was advertised briefly but > I cannot verify that it was ever made. > ---------------------- Well, it took awhile, but Denny now knows the kit was produced. It was the #549 Rural House. Not sure what the problem was, but I couldn't get any of my e-mail programs to upload the photos I have on file. I finally embedded the pics in AOL and sent it to myself at all three addresses. When I found one that worked I forwarded that one, and it went through. Vintage HO kits are definitely easier to work with than computers. :-( Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19992	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock

Jay, What were the labels put on? Wood? Cardstock? Styrene? They usually adhere best to plastic, and worst to wood, in my experience. Walter On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:21 PM, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote:   Doug About a year I noticed that they started to lift. Rubbed back down that lasted a little wile and came up again. I will not use that again. Jay Matz

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19993	From: Douglas	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock

Walter, Jay, All my labels have been applied to styrene card and none have lifted so far. Perhaps porous surfaces allow the plasticizers to evaporate more quickly, making the sticky coating more brittle and less sticky? Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Jay, > > What were the labels put on? Wood? Cardstock? Styrene? They usually adhere > best to plastic, and worst to wood, in my experience. > > Walter > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:21 PM, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Doug > > About a year I noticed that they started to lift. Rubbed back down that > > lasted a little wile and came up again. > > I will not use that again. > > Jay Matz > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19994	From: jay matz	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: signs on label stock

Walter The Labels were used on wood and card stock.I used the Avery for roll roofing, The wood and card stock were sealed before I installed the Avery self stick. I tried to find out why one peace would lift and another wouldn't. Finely I though it Averys QC and replaced all the roofs, they aren't lifting now. Living in Eastern Pa. this summer has been one of the worst I can remember for heat and humidity. The only plastic I use in structures are doors and windows. Jay Matz See the RR at http://www.dlw-model-rr.com/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19995	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann

Group, I have been searching high and low looking for Walthers/American GK and Bachmann E60CF locomotives. http://www.railheadvideo.com/pix/modeling/E60CF/bne60.htm http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id67.html http://tycotrain.tripod.com/walthers-locomotive-resource/id195.html I am looking for these in all paint schemes. Thank you. Matt Martin Tempe, Arizona bnsf5264@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19996	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann

Group, I have been searching high and low looking for Walthers/American GK and Bachmann E60CF locomotives. http://www.railheadvideo.com/pix/modeling/E60CF/bne60.htm http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id67.html http://tycotrain.tripod.com/walthers-locomotive-resource/id195.html I am looking for these in all paint schemes. Thank you. Matt Martin Tempe, Arizona bnsf5264@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19997	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Jim H is Off line!

Hey Guys! Jim called and asked if I would let everyone know that his computer's modem crashed again and he has been off line and most likely will be for a couple more days. He told me he received the 2-8-2 and it is a newer Bowser Mountain. He will post about it once he is back up and running. Thanks!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19998	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann

I'm getting to believe that just about every piece of life's flotsam and jetsam eventually crosses ebay.  It's a spider and fly sort of thing and it helps to be a good spider.   To set up a good spider web to snag your prey, I suggest you set up an ebay search which is easy.   -  Just do a search (it doesn't matter if it finds anything or not) -  Click on "Save search" -  Be sure the "Email me daily when new items match my search" box is checked.   Then it will tirelessly do the looking for you and only email you when something gets freshly listed.   You can set up a number of searches if there are more terms you think people might use to list it.  I notice that "E60CF" seems to also find "E 60 CF" so it is reasonably smart about such things.  But I wouldn't trust that.  I don't recommend trying to get to fancy with multiple choice searches in parentheses because I've seen that not work right if multiple search terms share common words.   I just searched for "E60CF" in the "Toys & Hobbies" category and got only a replacement windows item.   If a search in "Recently completed listings" is any guide, I see six showing for a high of $281 for a Milwaukee Road to a low of $36.51 for a Santa Fe.  Quite a bit of bidding activity on the things.   One nice thing about the emails is that if somebody lists a "buy it now" at a decent price, you get prompt notice and can pounce.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Martin To: trainsandstuff@yahoogroups.com ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann   Group, I have been searching high and low looking for Walthers/American GK and Bachmann E60CF locomotives. http://www.railheadvideo.com/pix/modeling/E60CF/bne60.htm http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id67.html http://tycotrain.tripod.com/walthers-locomotive-resource/id195.html I am looking for these in all paint schemes. Thank you. Matt Martin Tempe, Arizona bnsf5264@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 19999	From: shawmut_fan	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: MKD-4 couplers

Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't make them anymore.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20000	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: MKD-4 couplers

On 8/11/2012 2:34 PM, shawmut_fan wrote: > Does anyone have a source for Kadee MKD-4 couplers? I've got some > older diecast kits with built in coupler boxes where I either need > these couplers or perform some drastic modifications. Kadee doesn't > make them anymore. Kadee seems to be recommending the use of the following sleeves over the post in those old kits to allow them to use the newer couplers. I haven't tried it yet but perhaps someone else has. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page213.htm -- Rick Jones "Paint my house." -Rosie O'Donnell, "Exit To Eden"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20001	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann

Thanks for giving away my secret Chuck!! LOL!!   Just kidding.   Sean Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2012, at 2:26 PM, <ckinzer@...> wrote:   I'm getting to believe that just about every piece of life's flotsam and jetsam eventually crosses ebay.  It's a spider and fly sort of thing and it helps to be a good spider.   To set up a good spider web to snag your prey, I suggest you set up an ebay search which is easy.   -  Just do a search (it doesn't matter if it finds anything or not) -  Click on "Save search" -  Be sure the "Email me daily when new items match my search" box is checked.   Then it will tirelessly do the looking for you and only email you when something gets freshly listed.   You can set up a number of searches if there are more terms you think people might use to list it.  I notice that "E60CF" seems to also find "E 60 CF" so it is reasonably smart about such things.  But I wouldn't trust that.  I don't recommend trying to get to fancy with multiple choice searches in parentheses because I've seen that not work right if multiple search terms share common words.   I just searched for "E60CF" in the "Toys & Hobbies" category and got only a replacement windows item.   If a search in "Recently completed listings" is any guide, I see six showing for a high of $281 for a Milwaukee Road to a low of $36.51 for a Santa Fe.  Quite a bit of bidding activity on the things.   One nice thing about the emails is that if somebody lists a "buy it now" at a decent price, you get prompt notice and can pounce.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Martin To: trainsandstuff@yahoogroups.com ; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] WTB: E60CF Walthers/American GK and/or Bachmann   Group, I have been searching high and low looking for Walthers/American GK and Bachmann E60CF locomotives. http://www.railheadvideo.com/pix/modeling/E60CF/bne60.htm http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id67.html http://tycotrain.tripod.com/walthers-locomotive-resource/id195.html I am looking for these in all paint schemes. Thank you. Matt Martin Tempe, Arizona bnsf5264@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20002	From: nativetexan	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Campbell Structure Kits

Guys, I am just embarking on a structure kit to get my "feet wet" so to speak. A break from building freight cars for several months. I have several Campbell kits, and taking Denny's advice, have decided to begin with one....a small house. Question? What are suggestions for glue to use for wood to wood. I know Denny uses Ambroid. I'm sure there are many preferences out there. I currently have Elmer's white glue, Elmer's yellow (carptners) glue, Alene's tacky, Canopy glue, as well as CA. Any info will be appreciated. Charles Etherdge

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20003	From: jay matz	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

Charles Lets start from the beginning, you are not ready to glue yet. Get all the parts out and clean them, now you stain the parts both sides and the edges (I use minwax )what ever color you want,( I use Early American) Put it on with a Q-tip or rag and wipe the excess off. this will seal the wood. Now you are ready to paint, You don't need to do the inside unless you want to. I start to weather the structure now by paint and wipe method. After you have stained and painted it is time to put it together. I use Elmers white glue, I cut it with weted water and put it on with a paint brush.(Take a small flat dish put about a quarter size of glue more if you want then add about 6 or 8 drops of weted water and mix with the brush. put it on with the brush if you get sloppy you can clean up with a wet Q-tip, By painting first if you do get sloppy and then try and paint you will see where you were sloppy. I use to use a lot of Ambroid but have gotten away from it. Hope this helps. Jay Matz

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20004	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

 Sometimes it is helpful to paint the inside black if you are going to add lighting.  It helps keep light from shining through if wood (or plastic) is thin enough and exterior paint doesn't fully block it.   I always add some additional bracing (just glue laminate some thick cross section basswood or something) onto flat surfaces here and there to help prevent any chance of warping so long as it won't be seen.   Regarding glue, it might be worth using the kit as a "test lab" and trying several different types on different areas to see personal preference.   By the way, if anybody doesn't know what "wetted water" is, it means just putting a drop of detergent in it which kills the surface tension and makes it wet onto a surface better. It doesn't take much and if you are making suds, you've used too much.  (Photographers who do/did their own darkroom work would know of Photoflo and similar "nonionic surfactants" as a similar solution which is probably different than just detergent - maybe - and makes water sheet off film and prints.)   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Campbell Structure Kits   Charles Lets start from the beginning, you are not ready to glue yet. Get all the parts out and clean them, now you stain the parts both sides and the edges (I use minwax )what ever color you want,( I use Early American) Put it on with a Q-tip or rag and wipe the excess off. this will seal the wood. Now you are ready to paint, You don't need to do the inside unless you want to. I start to weather the structure now by paint and wipe method. After you have stained and painted it is time to put it together. I use Elmers white glue, I cut it with weted water and put it on with a paint brush.(Take a small flat dish put about a quarter size of glue more if you want then add about 6 or 8 drops of weted water and mix with the brush. put it on with the brush if you get sloppy you can clean up with a wet Q-tip, By painting first if you do get sloppy and then try and paint you will see where you were sloppy. I use to use a lot of Ambroid but have gotten away from it. Hope this helps. Jay Matz

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20005	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

Charles, Great hearing that you will be tackling one of the Campbell kits.  O bviously you have checked out my build of Campbell 's Matthews Mercantile because you mention my glue preferences.  No matter which glue you select, how about taking some photo's along the way and show us your progress.  I have some suggestions posted on my Photography page which demonstrate the relative ease of photo documenting your builds. While I personally enjoy seeing any completed model built from a craftsman kit, I especially like to see progress shots.  They also allow you the builder to review your work while it is in progress.  In addition, they provide inspiration for others to try similar projects and that's what we're trying to do here right? Share tips and techniques and provide inspiration. Will this be your first build of a Campbell kit? I would like to hear what you think of the instructions. Speaking of inspiration.  When I first joined this group, seeing the photo's of Rogers Ambroid collection in the photo section really inspired me as well as reading the history of the Ambroid company which I found in the files directory.  That in itself was worth finding and joining this group. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nativetexan" <ceth512@...> wrote: > > Guys, I am just embarking on a structure kit to get my "feet wet" so to speak. A break from building freight cars for several months. > > I have several Campbell kits, and taking Denny's advice, have decided to begin with one....a small house. > Question? What are suggestions for glue to use for wood to wood. I know Denny uses Ambroid. I'm sure there are many preferences out there. I currently have Elmer's white glue, Elmer's yellow (carptners) glue, Alene's tacky, Canopy glue, as well as CA. > > Any info will be appreciated. > > Charles Etherdge >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20006	From: David J. Starr	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

On 8/11/2012 3:58 PM, nativetexan wrote: Guys, I am just embarking on a structure kit to get my "feet wet" so to speak. A break from building freight cars for several months. I have several Campbell kits, and taking Denny's advice, have decided to begin with one....a small house. Question? What are suggestions for glue to use for wood to wood. I know Denny uses Ambroid. I'm sure there are many preferences out there. I currently have Elmer's white glue, Elmer's yellow (carptners) glue, Alene's tacky, Canopy glue, as well as CA. Any info will be appreciated. Charles Etherdge Ambroid cement (aka cellulose cement or Duco cement) bonds well to painted OR unpainted wood and dries hard in less than a minute.  You don't need to clamp it.  Elmer's, (PVA, also yellow carpenter glue and Alene's tacky glue) bonds well to unpainted wood.  It takes over night to dry hard, and must be clamped for full strength.  A good fitting long grain to long grain joint can be as strong as the wood itself, and a lot stronger than Ambroid cement.  It doesn't bond very well to painted wood.  Either kind of glue, if smeared on raw wood will interfere with stains (Minwax) and paint.  The glue soaks into the wood and hardens, which makes the wood resistant to stain and paint.  The glue stained wood shows up lighter.  Prepainting is good, so is  careful application.  I usually use Ambroid cement on wood kits cause of the fast dry and cause it's strong enough for most things.  If more strength is needed (say holding roof, floor, and endblocks together on passenger cars) I use Elmer's and clamp it. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20007	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

Dave, I do not get into debates about glue any more because it is like discussing religion or politics.  I merely state my personal preferences and let other experienced modelers state theirs.  However, no matter what glue is used it is imperative that the joint be clamped if at all possible.  I discussed that in one of my Blogs and guest blogger Ol' Harold added additional material.  Clamping is the only "given" that seems to be agreed upon by all model builders I have ever communicated with whether they be building wood planes, boats or structural models. Clamping of a joint is where the strength comes from.   When I worked for a company that had it's own professional model shop one of our largest expenditures in purchasing of hand tools was for clamping devices.  From experience I stress clamping in all my builds and that is probably why I have never had a wood to wood joint failure and several of my rolling stock models have been dropped onto concrete floors. Some time back we had a discussion of glues and I posted a conversation I had with follow modeler and amateur mixologist O l' Harold. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16595 At the end of that posting was a link to a podcast about adhesives.  Not that I supported what they said, I just supplied the link for anyone looking for additional opinions.  At that point everyone jumped in with their favorite adhesive and techniques. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> wrote: > > On 8/11/2012 3:58 PM, nativetexan wrote: > > Guys, I am just embarking on a structure kit to get my "feet wet" so to speak. A break from building freight cars for several months. > > > > I have several Campbell kits, and taking Denny's advice, have decided to begin with one....a small house. > > Question? What are suggestions for glue to use for wood to wood. I know Denny uses Ambroid. I'm sure there are many preferences out there. I currently have Elmer's white glue, Elmer's yellow (carptners) glue, Alene's tacky, Canopy glue, as well as CA. > > > > Any info will be appreciated. > > > > Charles Etherdge > > > Ambroid cement (aka cellulose cement or Duco cement) bonds well to > painted OR unpainted wood and dries hard in less than a minute. You > don't need to clamp it. > Elmer's, (PVA, also yellow carpenter glue and Alene's tacky glue) bonds > well to unpainted wood. It takes over night to dry hard, and must be > clamped for full strength. A good fitting long grain to long grain > joint can be as strong as the wood itself, and a lot stronger than > Ambroid cement. It doesn't bond very well to painted wood. > > Either kind of glue, if smeared on raw wood will interfere with stains > (Minwax) and paint. The glue soaks into the wood and hardens, which > makes the wood resistant to stain and paint. The glue stained wood > shows up lighter. Prepainting is good, so is careful application. > I usually use Ambroid cement on wood kits cause of the fast dry and > cause it's strong enough for most things. If more strength is needed > (say holding roof, floor, and endblocks together on passenger cars) I > use Elmer's and clamp it. > > -- > David J > > David J. Starr > > Blog:http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20008	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

Hi Charles, Since you asked the group, I may as well give you my two cents worth.  I know that Denny and some others swear by Ambroid and love it.  I also know Roger Horne personally and have discussed the use of Ambroid with him several times.  Roger is part of our NMRA Division (CPD13) and used to come to our meetings regularly up until a little over a year ago.  He is well known for having built every Ambroid HO kit that was made.  He used Ambroid cement exclusively for building those kits and I can say they are beautiful, because I have seen them personally.  I will also tell you that Roger is a meticulous and exceptional model builder.  I am sure he doesn't get any glue out of place and uses very good gluing practices.  So, Ambroid can be used very effectively by someone who knows how to use it.  My personal experiences with Ambroid have been primarily when I built balsa wood model airplanes.  At the time, i thought it was strong and quick drying, but it seemed a bit brittle to me sometimes.  In retrospect, I now feel it was....ok at best. (personal opinion) When I started to build model railroad cars and structures, I started using Elmers white glue and was amazed at how easy it was to use and how quick drying it was.  Also, it was very forgiving if I got a little excess glue on the parts.  A damp tissue or small piece of paper towel fixed it up right away.  The other thing about Elmers I found was that the parts stayed together.  Often times, if you did not use Ambroid exactly correctly, it needed to be re-glued.  Not to mention that orange color it leaves.  The Elmers white glue disappeared and you could not see it, assuming you were careful and wiped off any excess right away.  I suppose you may be able to do that with Ambroid as will by using Acetone.  If you do that, now you have just doubled the smell if you are building inside living areas.  Elmers white or yellow glue does not have an offensive odor.  Some wives complain about the Ambroid odor.  Later on as my model building evolved, I shifted to using yellow glue (aliphatic resin), either Elmers or Titebond.  It is a tiny bit more difficult to work with than Elmers, but it is more moisture resistant and less likely to have problems when exposed to moisture or humidity.  I can say that I have never had any of my Elmers white glued kits come apart, so I don't know if that is a good reason to switch.  I think I mainly continue to use yellow glue is because everybody else does.  It may set up a bit quicker, but the jury is out on that.  It also seems to become invisible as well.   In any case, no matter what kind of glue you use, you want to stain or color your parts prior to using glue.  Colored paints cover the glue very well, but even if you used a moist tissue or paper towel, the glue has entered the pores of the wood and will not longer take a stain properly.  Always stain everything first.  The white or yellow glue will work very nicely with stained wood and will become invisible.  I know also that a very good modeler can do this with Ambroid, but unless you have used Ambroid a lot, I would probably not use it for stained wood. One little anecdote I like to talk about regarding Ambroid is that you can re-kit an assembled model pretty easily by using Acetone.  I purchased a mostly already built Ambroid Mattheson Dry Ice car on eBay once, but it needed lots of help.  I was able to remove a lot of parts, the ones I needed to re-do, just by brushing Acetone along the glue joints.  Once I removed the details and parts, I was able to clear out the excess Ambroid glue by brushing on Aceteone, and wiping the car sides and using a tooth brush and scriber to get the remaining residue out.  The main box structure was in good shape, so I was able to re-do the Dry Ice car, paint it and it has been on the railroad for a few years now and looks great.   Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ceth512@... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 19:58:05 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Campbell Structure Kits   Guys, I am just embarking on a structure kit to get my "feet wet" so to speak. A break from building freight cars for several months. I have several Campbell kits, and taking Denny's advice, have decided to begin with one....a small house. Question? What are suggestions for glue to use for wood to wood. I know Denny uses Ambroid. I'm sure there are many preferences out there. I currently have Elmer's white glue, Elmer's yellow (carptners) glue, Alene's tacky, Canopy glue, as well as CA. Any info will be appreciated. Charles Etherdge

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20009	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

Hi Chuck,  That is a very good idea to paint this inside if you are to add lighting, which I do to all of my structures.  I would like to add that when I do structure walls, I prime both sides with cheap Wal-Mart Color Place grey primer.  It is perfect for our use and also helps to keep the walls sides from warping if you use acrylic paints on them. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 10:00:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Campbell Structure Kits    Sometimes it is helpful to paint the inside black if you are going to add lighting.  It helps keep light from shining through if wood (or plastic) is thin enough and exterior paint doesn't fully block it.   I always add some additional bracing (just glue laminate some thick cross section basswood or something) onto flat surfaces here and there to help prevent any chance of warping so long as it won't be seen.   Regarding glue, it might be worth using the kit as a "test lab" and trying several different types on different areas to see personal preference.   By the way, if anybody doesn't know what "wetted water" is, it means just putting a drop of detergent in it which kills the surface tension and makes it wet onto a surface better. It doesn't take much and if you are making suds, you've used too much.  (Photographers who do/did their own darkroom work would know of Photoflo and similar "nonionic surfactants" as a similar solution which is probably different than just detergent - maybe - and makes water sheet off film and prints.)   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Campbell Structure Kits   Charles Lets start from the beginning, you are not ready to glue yet. Get all the parts out and clean them, now you stain the parts both sides and the edges (I use minwax )what ever color you want,( I use Early American) Put it on with a Q-tip or rag and wipe the excess off. this will seal the wood. Now you are ready to paint, You don't need to do the inside unless you want to. I start to weather the structure now by paint and wipe method. After you have stained and painted it is time to put it together. I use Elmers white glue, I cut it with weted water and put it on with a paint brush.(Take a small flat dish put about a quarter size of glue more if you want then add about 6 or 8 drops of weted water and mix with the brush. put it on with the brush if you get sloppy you can clean up with a wet Q-tip, By painting first if you do get sloppy and then try and paint you will see where you were sloppy. I use to use a lot of Ambroid but have gotten away from it. Hope this helps. Jay Matz

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20010	From: nativetexan	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Dave, > > I do not get into debates about glue any more because it is like > discussing religion or politics. I merely state my personal preferences > and let other experienced modelers state theirs. However, no matter > what glue is used it is imperative that the joint be clamped if at all > possible. I discussed that in one of my Blogs and guest blogger Ol' > Harold added additional material. Clamping is the only "given" > that seems to be agreed upon by all model builders I have ever > communicated with whether they be building wood planes, boats or > structural models. Clamping of a joint is where the strength comes from. > > When I worked for a company that had it's own professional model > shop one of our largest expenditures in purchasing of hand tools was for > clamping devices. From experience I stress clamping in all my builds > and that is probably why I have never had a wood to wood joint failure > and several of my rolling stock models have been dropped onto concrete > floors. > > Some time back we had a discussion of glues and I posted a conversation > I had with follow modeler and amateur mixologist Ol' Harold. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16595 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16595> > > At the end of that posting was a link to a podcast about adhesives. Not > that I supported what they said, I just supplied the link for anyone > looking for additional opinions. At that point everyone jumped in with > their favorite adhesive and techniques. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > Thanks guys for the input and advice. Yes, I intend to stain/paint all parts before any glueing is done. Also inside bracing where needed. I really was just trying to get an idea on the advantages & disadvanages of each type of glue. Like most of us, I have built a ton of model airplanes in the 50's as well as Northeastern RR models. If I remember correctly, those kits came with a small tube of Ambroid cement. I also have two LaBelle passenger car kits ( $3.95 at that time....sob ) which are still not built. I've always thought that they were some of the most beautiful kits around. Time to get out the alchol/india ink washes, Minwax stains, etc and get to work. Charles Etheredge Austin, Texas Modeling the T&NO in the 40's

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20011	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

Charles mentioned it so How about someone who has experience using the Minwax stains giving us a bit of info about using those.  I am still working off my N O S stock of Floquil stain but I have wondered about other options.  Anybody using these on stone work yet?  Which are you using and for what purpose.  anything close to the driftwood made famous by George Selious?  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nativetexan" <ceth512@...> wrote: > Thanks guys for the input and advice. Yes, I intend to stain/paint all parts before any glueing is done. Also inside bracing where needed. I really was just trying to get an idea on the advantages & disadvanages of each type of glue. > Like most of us, I have built a ton of model airplanes in the 50's as well as Northeastern RR models. If I remember correctly, those kits came with a small tube of Ambroid cement. I also have two LaBelle passenger car kits ( $3.95 at that time....sob ) which are still not built. I've always thought that they were some of the most beautiful kits around. > Time to get out the alchol/india ink washes, Minwax stains, etc and get to work. > > Charles Etheredge > Austin, Texas > Modeling the T&NO in the 40's >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20012	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives

Freinds, I have tried many types of gluein my 50-odd years as a modeler.   I used to like the Ambroid cement(built a fw Ambroid cars with it back in the 1960's), but since I found "WeldBond," I use that whenever I don't use Walther's GOO(which I believe is now called "Hobsco." GOO is good for many other applications and I keep some of that handy, too.   Try the WeldBond - and be sure to read the instrucions. I looks, smells, and cleans up like any regular white glue, but you can use it for darned near anything. Wood to wood, metal to glass, etc. Dries clear and apparently not affected by humidity, etc.   For wood, you dilute it and paint it on the surfaces to be glued. When that dries, glue and clamp as any other. For smooth surfaces like metal or plastic(not Vinyl, of course), use it as-is.   I put on open-benchwork layout together in 1980, using wood screws for clamps(couldn't afford clamps!) and when I was satisfied that it was dry, I removed the screws for use elsewhere. Still together and strong now in 2012...   I keep one bottle straight and one of diluted handy for whenever...  I also repaired my pipe(a favorite and smokes nicely) with it and after a couple of years it's still fine.   No, I am not affiliated with that company in anyway, I just like the product.   Fred Hultber(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20013	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives

I personally have had good success with Pliobond for many projects. Has done a good job bonding Walthers tinplate stamped metal car sides to wooden floors. Recently, I built up a Suydam metal building. As I did not want to do all that soldering mentioned in the instructions (Not in summer anyway!), I used square wood dowel cut to size for the corner braces, roughed up the surfaces to be bonded, and used Pliobond. Follow the instructions to a T, and it works quite well. Was carrying a metal building assembled this way, and accidentally dropped it to the floor. Went about four feet to the floor, which has carpeting, but not much padding. Did not break anywhere! Picked it up and it was just fine. That "sold" me on using the glue more. Plus I've noticed through the years that the worse a glue smells, the better it works as a general rule of thumb. If thats the case, then Pliobond is unbeatable. Stuff stinks pretty bad. -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/13/12, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: From: Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> Subject: [vintageHO] My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 8:50 PM   Freinds, I have tried many types of gluein my 50-odd years as a modeler.   I used to like the Ambroid cement(built a fw Ambroid cars with it back in the 1960's), but since I found "WeldBond," I use that whenever I don't use Walther's GOO(which I believe is now called "Hobsco." GOO is good for many other applications and I keep some of that handy, too.   Try the WeldBond - and be sure to read the instrucions. I looks, smells, and cleans up like any regular white glue, but you can use it for darned near anything. Wood to wood, metal to glass, etc. Dries clear and apparently not affected by humidity, etc.   For wood, you dilute it and paint it on the surfaces to be glued. When that dries, glue and clamp as any other. For smooth surfaces like metal or plastic(not Vinyl, of course), use it as-is.   I put on open-benchwork layout together in 1980, using wood screws for clamps(couldn't afford clamps!) and when I was satisfied that it was dry, I removed the screws for use elsewhere. Still together and strong now in 2012...   I keep one bottle straight and one of diluted handy for whenever...  I also repaired my pipe(a favorite and smokes nicely) with it and after a couple of years it's still fine.   No, I am not affiliated with that company in anyway, I just like the product.   Fred Hultber(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20014	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives

Hello: Just a few rules of caution 1) Don't ever depend on the odor to determine safety. 2) The nicest smelling adhesives would probably drop you in ten minutes. 3) The real stinkers would do you no harm (not always). When in doubt read the MSDS or refer to rule 1. Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20015	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

I've had a lot of success staining ties in bulk using Minwax "Ebony".  I put stain in an old aluminum ice cube tray (remember those from the pre-in fridge icemaker days?), pour in the ties, stir them up, let them sit a few minutes, then shake them dry in a paper sack.  They come out an extrmemly dark brown.  John B. Allyn From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 7:42:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Campbell Structure Kits   Charles mentioned it so… How about someone who has experience using the Minwax stains giving us a bit of info about using those.  I am still working off my NOS stock of Floquil stain but I have wondered about other options.  Anybody using these on stone work yet?  Which are you using and for what purpose.  anything close to the driftwood made famous by George Selious?  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nativetexan" <ceth512@...> wrote: > Thanks guys for the input and advice. Yes, I intend to stain/paint all parts before any glueing is done. Also inside bracing where needed. I really was just trying to get an idea on the advantages & disadvanages of each type of glue. > Like most of us, I have built a ton of model airplanes in the 50's as well as Northeastern RR models. If I remember correctly, those kits came with a small tube of Ambroid cement. I also have two LaBelle passenger car kits ( $3.95 at that time....sob ) which are still not built. I've always thought that they were some of the most beautiful kits around. > Time to get out the alchol/india ink washes, Minwax stains, etc and get to work. > > Charles Etheredge > Austin, Texas > Modeling the T&NO in the 40's >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20016	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Campbell Structure Kits

I have used Minwax in the past when I first started scratchbuilding turnouts.  I was not thrilled with my first usage, but it got a bit better the second and third time, but I still didn't like it.  I eventually "discovered" A/I, that is India Ink and Alcohol mix.  I use two different strengths I call light and dark.  Light is one teaspoon India Ink to one pint of alcohol.  Dark is four teaspoons.  That is my primary stain and I use that for most of my decking for structures.  I also have started using Leather dye, NOT shoe polish and NOT RIT dye, but Leather Dye.  It is an aniline dye and also can be mixed with alcohol to dilute it to the required strength.  I tend to use the Leather Dye mixes for trackwork and bridges.  It seems they are better suited for those kinds of structures.  If I want to use something else, I will also dilute Floquil or Pollyscale paints, but generally, I only use that for worn out painted type surfaces. Oh, by the way, if I had any Floquil stains left, I would sell them on eBay and make some bucks.  There are lots of good products available these days that are excellent if not better replacements, especially for Driftwood.  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 00:42:03 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Campbell Structure Kits   Charles mentioned it so… How about someone who has experience using the Minwax stains giving us a bit of info about using those.  I am still working off my NOS stock of Floquil stain but I have wondered about other options.  Anybody using these on stone work yet?  Which are you using and for what purpose.  anything close to the driftwood made famous by George Selious?  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nativetexan" <ceth512@...> wrote: > Thanks guys for the input and advice. Yes, I intend to stain/paint all parts before any glueing is done. Also inside bracing where needed. I really was just trying to get an idea on the advantages & disadvanages of each type of glue. > Like most of us, I have built a ton of model airplanes in the 50's as well as Northeastern RR models. If I remember correctly, those kits came with a small tube of Ambroid cement. I also have two LaBelle passenger car kits ( $3.95 at that time....sob ) which are still not built. I've always thought that they were some of the most beautiful kits around. > Time to get out the alchol/india ink washes, Minwax stains, etc and get to work. > > Charles Etheredge > Austin, Texas > Modeling the T&NO in the 40's >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20017	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Jim H is Off line!

Hi, Got new modem and back in business. Modem went out with no storm in the area and through surge protector on line. This is twice in 3 months. Internet people people said they had 32 modems go. I have a 159 emails to catch up. Will take a while to get straightened out. As mentioned the 2-8-2 I got from eBay is the newer Bowser and seller should have seen Bowser name on back Cab plate and inside tender which was apart. Have to find year made. It might be to new for my vintage collection. I'll send pictures if I get chance.                                              Jim H On 8/11/2012 1:57 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hey Guys! Jim called and asked if I would let everyone know that his computer's modem crashed again and he has been off line and most likely will be for a couple more days. He told me he received the 2-8-2 and it is a newer Bowser Mountain. He will post about it once he is back up and running. Thanks!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20018	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Jim H is Off line!

Jim, A bit off topic here, but who is your internet provider? Over the years in the IT field, I have found AT&T's DSL modems, particularly those SpeedStream series, to die for absolutely no reason quite often. Also, while it sounds like the power adapter to the modem is indeed on a surge protector, is the line between the modem and wall also protected? Phone line can be susceptable to surges, particularly in areas with older infrastructure, but cable internet can have issues with surges too. Users with dialup also need line surge protection. One fellow I know has a spike come in through his phone line and zap his computer through the internal dialup modem! Glad you're back online, it is always a joy to read about your latest projects! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 8/14/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Jim H is Off line! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:51 AM   Hi, Got new modem and back in business. Modem went out with no storm in the area and through surge protector on line. This is twice in 3 months. Internet people people said they had 32 modems go. I have a 159 emails to catch up. Will take a while to get straightened out. As mentioned the 2-8-2 I got from eBay is the newer Bowser and seller should have seen Bowser name on back Cab plate and inside tender which was apart. Have to find year made. It might be to new for my vintage collection. I'll send pictures if I get chance.                                              Jim H On 8/11/2012 1:57 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hey Guys! Jim called and asked if I would let everyone know that his computer's modem crashed again and he has been off line and most likely will be for a couple more days. He told me he received the 2-8-2 and it is a newer Bowser Mountain. He will post about it once he is back up and running. Thanks!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20019	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives

Absolutely! Most of that was meant more or less tongue in cheek. In all seriousness, even with windows open and a fan going, that Pliobond can stink up a room pretty fast! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 8/14/12, madchemep2@... <madchemep2@...> wrote: From: madchemep2@... <madchemep2@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My 2 Cents' Worth About Adhesives To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 7:31 AM   Hello: Just a few rules of caution 1) Don't ever depend on the odor to determine safety. 2) The nicest smelling adhesives would probably drop you in ten minutes. 3) The real stinkers would do you no harm (not always). When in doubt read the MSDS or refer to rule 1. Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20020	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser 4-8-2

Attachments : IMG_8363.JPG IMG_8362.JPG IMG_8359.JPG Well now that I got back on Line I can show you some pictures of the newer Bowser 4-8-2 Mountain. I think the price of $33 isn't to bad with a new running Helix Humper motor in it. I had bought to have a project to repair but there Isn't much wrong with the engine. Won't take much to get it running. Might be to new for my vintage collection. The frame , drive and valve gear are in great shape. The pilot has to be attached. Only thing wrong with the boiler / cab is the back plate of the cab is cracked in half. Easy fix. The trucks from the tender are missing. I can take 2 out of a mint Varney kit to use ( pictured) unless someone has two to sell. Basically clean the paint off , repaint and decal. Will probably use on my layout to replace a Rivarossi Mike I have there. Motor promised to someone if we can trade and the motor offered me fits. Throwing away the sound board. No plans, to many wires. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20021	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser 4-8-2

Attachments : IMG_8363-20021.JPG IMG_8362-20021.JPG IMG_8359-20021.JPG Well now that I got back on Line I can show you some pictures of the newer Bowser 4-8-2 Mountain. I think the price of $33 isn't to bad with a new running Helix Humper motor in it. I had bought to have a project to repair but there Isn't much wrong with the engine. Won't take much to get it running. Might be to new for my vintage collection. The frame , drive and valve gear are in great shape. The pilot has to be attached. Only thing wrong with the boiler / cab is the back plate of the cab is cracked in half. Easy fix. The trucks from the tender are missing. I can take 2 out of a mint Varney kit to use ( pictured) unless someone has two to sell. Basically clean the paint off , repaint and decal. Will probably use on my layout to replace a Rivarossi Mike I have there. Motor promised to someone if we can trade and the motor offered me fits. Throwing away the sound board. No plans, to many wires. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20022	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Jim H is Off line!

Steve,       Use to be Penn Woods ( Central PA ) and now is Atlantic Broadband. I have surge protector for DSL right where phone line comes out of wall.  Atlantic Broadband tells me there is a surge protector in the DSL modem. If bad storms in area , and we are home we shut computer down.Saturday morning I used computer at 9 in the morning and by 4 in the afternoon it wouldn't work and I remember no storm during that time. We did have a huge fire in town 2 miles from me but internet people said should not have hurt.                                               Jim H On 8/14/2012 1:16 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Jim, A bit off topic here, but who is your internet provider? Over the years in the IT field, I have found AT&T's DSL modems, particularly those SpeedStream series, to die for absolutely no reason quite often. Also, while it sounds like the power adapter to the modem is indeed on a surge protector, is the line between the modem and wall also protected? Phone line can be susceptable to surges, particularly in areas with older infrastructure, but cable internet can have issues with surges too. Users with dialup also need line surge protection. One fellow I know has a spike come in through his phone line and zap his computer through the internal dialup modem! Glad you're back online, it is always a joy to read about your latest projects! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 8/14/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Jim H is Off line! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:51 AM   Hi, Got new modem and back in business. Modem went out with no storm in the area and through surge protector on line. This is twice in 3 months. Internet people people said they had 32 modems go. I have a 159 emails to catch up. Will take a while to get straightened out. As mentioned the 2-8-2 I got from eBay is the newer Bowser and seller should have seen Bowser name on back Cab plate and inside tender which was apart. Have to find year made. It might be to new for my vintage collection. I'll send pictures if I get chance.                                              Jim H On 8/11/2012 1:57 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hey Guys! Jim called and asked if I would let everyone know that his computer's modem crashed again and he has been off line and most likely will be for a couple more days. He told me he received the 2-8-2 and it is a newer Bowser Mountain. He will post about it once he is back up and running. Thanks!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20023	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: ID these cars

Attachments : Shorty_cars.JPG Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20024	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]

On 8/15/2012 5:25 AM, John Hagen wrote: Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875 My first guess was Herkimer of Kasiner.  Are the doors in the baggage car printed on celluloid?  Also the ends, diecast (Herkimer)  or flat sheet metal (Kasiner) ? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20025	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Bowser 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]

Hi Jim - Looks good!   What is that fluid you are using that you have the chassis sitting in? Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 2:47 pm Subject: [vintageHO] eBay Bowser 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Well now that I got back on Line I can show you some pictures of the newer Bowser 4-8-2 Mountain. I think the price of $33 isn't to bad with a new running Helix Humper motor in it. I had bought to have a project to repair but there Isn't much wrong with the engine. Won't take much to get it running. Might be to new for my vintage collection. The frame , drive and valve gear are in great shape. The pilot has to be attached. Only thing wrong with the boiler / cab is the back plate of the cab is cracked in half. Easy fix. The trucks from the tender are missing. I can take 2 out of a mint Varney kit to use ( pictured) unless someone has two to sell. Basically clean the paint off , repaint and decal. Will probably use on my layout to replace a Rivarossi Mike I have there. Motor promised to someone if we can trade and the motor offered me fits. Throwing away the sound board. No plans, to many wires. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20026	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

Attachments : Shorty_cars_2.JPG Don,   Here is another picture. Looks to me like flat ends with those old foam full width diaphragms. So Kasiner then?   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:30 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID these cars     On 8/15/2012 5:25 AM, John Hagen wrote: Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875 My first guess was Herkimer of Kasiner.  Are the doors in the baggage car printed on celluloid?  Also the ends, diecast (Herkimer)  or flat sheet metal (Kasiner) ? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20027	From: Jim Ruef	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]

They could possibly be Herkimer.  Are the bottoms made of masonite material? Jim From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:25 AM Subject: [vintageHO] ID these cars [1 Attachment]   Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20028	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

The fluting doesn't quite match some Herkimer cars I have. Nor how far the passenger door cuts up into the fluting near the roof line.  Or did Herkimer's style change over the years? Also, my Herkimer cars have no roof vents in the kits.  Perhaps Kasiner?    Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID these cars   On 8/15/2012 5:25 AM, John Hagen wrote: Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875 My first guess was Herkimer of Kasiner.  Are the doors in the baggage car printed on celluloid?  Also the ends, diecast (Herkimer)  or flat sheet metal (Kasiner) ? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20029	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

Dunno.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ruef Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:52 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID these cars     They could possibly be Herkimer.  Are the bottoms made of masonite material? Jim   From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:25 AM Subject: [vintageHO] ID these cars [1 Attachment]     Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20030	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Bowser 4-8-2

Reed,      Just brake fluid. Takes most paint off but not all.                                       Jim H                              On 8/15/2012 8:49 AM, estabrook@... wrote:   Hi Jim - Looks good!   What is that fluid you are using that you have the chassis sitting in? Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 2:47 pm Subject: [vintageHO] eBay Bowser 4-8-2 [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Well now that I got back on Line I can show you some pictures of the newer Bowser 4-8-2 Mountain. I think the price of $33 isn't to bad with a new running Helix Humper motor in it. I had bought to have a project to repair but there Isn't much wrong with the engine. Won't take much to get it running. Might be to new for my vintage collection. The frame , drive and valve gear are in great shape. The pilot has to be attached. Only thing wrong with the boiler / cab is the back plate of the cab is cracked in half. Easy fix. The trucks from the tender are missing. I can take 2 out of a mint Varney kit to use ( pictured) unless someone has two to sell. Basically clean the paint off , repaint and decal. Will probably use on my layout to replace a Rivarossi Mike I have there. Motor promised to someone if we can trade and the motor offered me fits. Throwing away the sound board. No plans, to many wires. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20031	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]

On 8/15/2012 8:16 AM, John Hagen wrote: Don,   Here is another picture. Looks to me like flat ends with those old foam full width diaphragms. So Kasiner then?   John Hagen Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Without holding it in my hot little hand, that would an educated guess. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20032	From: Howard C. Taylor	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

look like they could be, judging by my ok /herkimer catalog. the style is right.howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20033	From: Richard White	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars [1 Attachment]

Definitely Kaisner/Herkimer. The plastic baggage doors are one indication. These are a weak point in the design- too flimsy.  -Richard W. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:16:09 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] ID these cars [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Don,   Here is another picture. Looks to me like flat ends with those old foam full width diaphragms. So Kasiner then?   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:30 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] ID these cars     On 8/15/2012 5:25 AM, John Hagen wrote: Could they be Herkimer? eBay item 290761132875 My first guess was Herkimer of Kasiner.  Are the doors in the baggage car printed on celluloid?  Also the ends, diecast (Herkimer)  or flat sheet metal (Kasiner) ? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20034	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Resistance solderers

I look every so often and once again there are several affordable resistance soldering set-yps and power units on eBay. I saw 2-3 of the high powered Luma 551, 900-watt units from $99-$125. I have two of these, one is a spare, the original is over 40 years old and was bought used.over 25 years ago. It's a very nice tool. There are also 11 of the 100 watt American Beauty resistance power units on individual sale from one fellow. He is asking $99 for one. These are nice tools. But you note I use a much more powerful one that also throttles down to do very light soldering. Some of the above are only the power units. You can use any resistance soldering hand-tool with one, or just mount a carbon rod in a hobby knife [insulated handle] and use it similar to a high speed soldering iron. I used a jury-rig rod holder of a hobby knife tool for a lot of years and never had the absolute need to buy a commercial hand-tool. But I did eventually buy one of those as well at a swap meet. They also have some newer $400 and $600 resistance soldering set-ups on eBay today. While nice, you won't notice the difference in operation between a factory new and a slightly dinged resistance soldering set-up. So if you'd like to have a bargain priced resistance soldering tool, you can. Mine was built in the early 70's or late '60's and still works like new. Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20035	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

While Herkimer cars could have changed over the years, the late 1970's Walthers catalogs clearly show them as having roof vents. One detail that I noticed that would disuade me from calling these cars Herkimers is that their Dome Observation's separate rear (rounded) roof section has a red marker light centered onto the rear of it. While I'm not sure of Herkimer's standard Observation having this or not, I can't see why they would go to the expense of having a different rear roof section mold made, without this rear marker light, just for their standard Obs. I don't see this rear marker light on this standard Obs. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20036	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

OK Streamliners, of Herkimer, NY, is the successor. The "OK Streamliners" web site is, "http://www.okengines.com/news.shtml". Unfortunately, no photos. Nice people to deal with, but it was a few years ago that I did. Email address: "OKENGINES@...". Ask them. I am sure they will be helpful. IIRC, roof vents and underbody were "always" separately sold, and not in the basic kits. [What I liked least about them was the vestibule doors. Second was that the A and B ends both had doors cast in.] Walter On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 8:59 AM, <erieberk@...> wrote:   While Herkimer cars could have changed over the years, the late 1970's Walthers catalogs clearly show them as having roof vents. One detail that I noticed that would disuade me from calling these cars Herkimers is that their Dome Observation's separate rear (rounded) roof section has a red marker light centered onto the rear of it. While I'm not sure of Herkimer's standard Observation having this or not, I can't see why they would go to the expense of having a different rear roof section mold made, without this rear marker light, just for their standard Obs. I don't see this rear marker light on this standard Obs. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20037	From: Chris B	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

Thanks for posting Mike, I just bought one of the Luma systems on ebay, and otherwise, wouldn't have seen it. I've had a 250w AB system for a few years and like it fine, but nothing does the trick like more juice. Thanks again Chris Brannigan Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>; To: <brasscollectors@yahoogroups.com>; <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <traintools@yahoogroups.com>; <Civil_War_RRs@yahoogroups.com>; <EarlyRail@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: [vintageHO] Resistance solderers Sent: Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:21:07 AM   I look every so often and once again there are several affordable resistance soldering set-yps and power units on eBay. I saw 2-3 of the high powered Luma 551, 900-watt units from $99-$125. I have two of these, one is a spare, the original is over 40 years old and was bought used.over 25 years ago. It's a very nice tool. There are also 11 of the 100 watt American Beauty resistance power units on individual sale from one fellow. He is asking $99 for one. These are nice tools. But you note I use a much more powerful one that also throttles down to do very light soldering. Some of the above are only the power units. You can use any resistance soldering hand-tool with one, or just mount a carbon rod in a hobby knife [insulated handle] and use it similar to a high speed soldering iron. I used a jury-rig rod holder of a hobby knife tool for a lot of years and never had the absolute need to buy a commercial hand-tool. But I did eventually buy one of those as well at a swap meet. They also have some newer $400 and $600 resistance soldering set-ups on eBay today. While nice, you won't notice the difference in operation between a factory new and a slightly dinged resistance soldering set-up. So if you'd like to have a bargain priced resistance soldering tool, you can. Mine was built in the early 70's or late '60's and still works like new. Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20038	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: ID these cars

On 8/16/2012 7:59 AM, erieberk@... wrote: > While Herkimer cars could have changed over the years, the late 1970's > Walthers catalogs clearly show them as having roof vents. One detail that I > noticed that would disuade me from calling these cars Herkimers is that their > Dome Observation's separate rear (rounded) roof section has a red marker > light centered onto the rear of it. While I'm not sure of Herkimer's standard > Observation having this or not, I can't see why they would go to the expense > of having a different rear roof section mold made, without this rear marker > light, just for their standard Obs. I don't see this rear marker light on > this standard Obs. > > Ray F.W.</HTML> > > > Go to my Herkimer/kasiner album in the group photos; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1014260629/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Look at "Potowatomi" - no rear mars light light housing Then look at "Aztelan" - rear mars light housing. Indeed they DID make two different end castings over the years. Of the two cars, the older one without the housing is in fact a Kasiner (I have the box, it came from someone else on this group) while the one with the mars light housing is definitely herkimer -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20039	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

On 8/16/2012 6:21 AM, Mike Bauers wrote: > I look every so often and once again there are several affordable resistance soldering set-yps and power units on eBay. > > I saw 2-3 of the high powered Luma 551, 900-watt units from $99-$125. I have two of these, one is a spare, the original is over 40 years old and was bought used.over 25 years ago. It's a very nice tool. > > There are also 11 of the 100 watt American Beauty resistance power units on individual sale from one fellow. He is asking $99 for one. These are nice tools. But you note I use a much more powerful one that also throttles down to do very light soldering. > > Some of the above are only the power units. You can use any resistance soldering hand-tool with one, or just mount a carbon rod in a hobby knife [insulated handle] and use it similar to a high speed soldering iron. I used a jury-rig rod holder of a hobby knife tool for a lot of years and never had the absolute need to buy a commercial hand-tool. But I did eventually buy one of those as well at a swap meet. > > They also have some newer $400 and $600 resistance soldering set-ups on eBay today. While nice, you won't notice the difference in operation between a factory new and a slightly dinged resistance soldering set-up. > > So if you'd like to have a bargain priced resistance soldering tool, you can. Mine was built in the early 70's or late '60's and still works like new. I remember someone once mentioning (not on here) that some of the big, old Lionel transformers could be used for resistance soldering. At the time I think I was running a display layout with my old KW. If that's possible I'd like to find more information on how to do it since I imagine the transformers are likely the most costly part of a resistance soldering unit. If my old KW could be used for such a purpose that could make me give it a try. -- Rick Jones Why is the man who invests all your money called a "broker"?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20040	From: jay matz	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Knapp Mountain

Attachments : scan0001-20040.jpg DSC_2187.jpg DSC_2183.jpg DSC_2181.jpg Jim Here are photos of a Knapp mountain. on the bottom of the box is a date of 1937. My father got it from his neighbor many years ago. I took a photo of the end of the box and a sails slip from 1941 for $10.00. The loco is all apart, all the parts are there. Jay Matz

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20041	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

I stopped at Menards for a couple of things and grabbed two more of their larger hobby knives. Any like the larger Xacto hobby knife that has a round hole chuck for craft blades is the type . I work where they use copper skinned carbon rods to burn out bad welds. It's a common tool/supply used in welding work. A good hardware store should have them. I do like the guys at work and sharpen the carbon rod, as is, in an old fashioned wall mount hand cranked pencil sharpener. I then snap off about three inches of that pencil sharp carbon rod and chuck it in the hobby knife. Use an insulated handle knife or rig up an insulated handle. For temporary use, like just a few years, use a out three feet of ordinary electrical extension cord and use both lines of the three feet of it as your power line to the carbon rod holder. I used a heavy duty alligator type clip on the cable to snap onto the metal body of the hobby knife, it's always worked fine. I actually used one of the Xacto insulated knives for this and while it was a primitive tool I never shocked myself and the simple tool always worked well. Later I assembled more elegant versions using the plain all metal hobby knife and the body of a plastic permanent marker. Along with a bolt to attach the cord to the rear of the knife body assembly with a filler of RTV and the more durable type of electrical appliance cord. Do much the same with a simple electrical clamp on the end of another three feet of electrical cord for your ground line to attach to your work. Use any variation of the above to try soldering with your Lionel transformer. I read that at least in the past, ordinary size C and D carbon batteries have a carbon rod as the center part of the construction. If you have to get a carbon rod that way, it should be there. A good artist supply store will have pure carbon rods they use to draw with. I don't know how good of a conductor those sticks may be, but it one mow possible source. If you can't find a carbon rod to use, let me know and I'll send a couple at 3-4 inches, shaped to use. Now remember, you have a self-protecting circuit breaker in that power-pack. That may prevent it from being used as a resistance soldering power unit. You may have to bypass it by entering the unit and jumpering it. You need to be certain you are doing that correctly before you even begin to try modding the Lionel pack. You should know that means the unit must be unplugged before you put a single tool to open it up. If that basic step was not your first thought, you better not even try to mod the Lionel power pack. Any decently techie type can do the above. But you must be an experienced and thus capable techie type to even try it. Meanwhile, a slightly dinged Luma 551, 900 watt unit for $75 just appeared on eBay...... It looks like it needs a couple of common knobs I can get from an Ace Hardware store. You might consider that unit...... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > I remember someone once mentioning (not on here) that some of the > big, old Lionel transformers could be used for resistance soldering. At > the time I think I was running a display layout with my old KW. If > that's possible I'd like to find more information on how to do it since > I imagine the transformers are likely the most costly part of a > resistance soldering unit. If my old KW could be used for such a purpose > that could make me give it a try. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Why is the man who invests all your money called a "broker"? > > > ---------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20042	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Knapp Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8387.JPG IMG_8386.JPG IMG_8385.JPG IMG_8384.JPG IMG_8383.JPG Jay M, I want to thank you for the pictures and information. The original box with a date of 1937 is great. I had 1938 as the earliest. That $10.00 cost is nice to know from the sales slip. I see your 6 volt motor is missing the brushes. I've sent some pictures you might like. First picture Shows the pins ( same as your picture ) on the drivers that I was told you "flared" over to hold the side rod on. I never attempted to do it to mine as I was afraid something would happen to the drivers and the engine won't run. That is why they were so much longer with side rod on. The soldered return crank actually holds the side rod on. Second & Third pictures Shows the original tender trucks that had a slot cut in them to hold the long shanked, Talgo mounted, non working coupler. It was a poor looking coupler. Blank on the bottom and some detail on the top. Four & Five Shows a working Knapp 6 volt motor. Although pictures don't show it the magnet has a kind of A shape to it. Hope these pictures help you. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20043	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: Knapp Mountain [5 Attachments]

Special to Jim H. Thanks for the additional photos. Between your photos and the info from Jay it appears that the blackened brass was a factory applied finish. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 8/17/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jay M, > > I want to thank you for the pictures and information. The > original box with a date of 1937 is great. I had 1938 as the earliest. > That $10.00 cost is nice to know from the sales slip. I see your 6 volt > motor is missing the brushes. > > I've sent some pictures you might like. > > First picture Shows the pins ( same as your picture ) on the > drivers that I was told you "flared" over to hold the side rod on. I > never attempted to do it to mine as I was afraid something would happen > to the drivers and the engine won't run. That is why they were so much > longer with side rod on. The soldered return crank actually holds the > side rod on. > > > Second & Third pictures Shows the original tender trucks that > had a slot cut in them to hold the long shanked, Talgo mounted, non > working coupler. It was a poor looking coupler. Blank on the bottom and > some detail on the top. > > Four & Five Shows a working Knapp 6 volt motor. Although > pictures don't show it the magnet has a kind of A shape to it. > > > Hope these pictures help you. > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20044	From: Chris B	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

hey Mke, would those carbon rods you uffered in a pinch fit that lluma unit? Chris Brannigan From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>; To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Resistance solderers Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:31:01 AM   I stopped at Menards for a couple of things and grabbed two more of their larger hobby knives. Any like the larger Xacto hobby knife that has a round hole chuck for craft blades is the type . I work where they use copper skinned carbon rods to burn out bad welds. It's a common tool/supply used in welding work. A good hardware store should have them. I do like the guys at work and sharpen the carbon rod, as is, in an old fashioned wall mount hand cranked pencil sharpener. I then snap off about three inches of that pencil sharp carbon rod and chuck it in the hobby knife. Use an insulated handle knife or rig up an insulated handle. For temporary use, like just a few years, use a out three feet of ordinary electrical extension cord and use both lines of the three feet of it as your power line to the carbon rod holder. I used a heavy duty alligator type clip on the cable to snap onto the metal body of the hobby knife, it's always worked fine. I actually used one of the Xacto insulated knives for this and while it was a primitive tool I never shocked myself and the simple tool always worked well. Later I assembled more elegant versions using the plain all metal hobby knife and the body of a plastic permanent marker. Along with a bolt to attach the cord to the rear of the knife body assembly with a filler of RTV and the more durable type of electrical appliance cord. Do much the same with a simple electrical clamp on the end of another three feet of electrical cord for your ground line to attach to your work. Use any variation of the above to try soldering with your Lionel transformer. I read that at least in the past, ordinary size C and D carbon batteries have a carbon rod as the center part of the construction. If you have to get a carbon rod that way, it should be there. A good artist supply store will have pure carbon rods they use to draw with. I don't know how good of a conductor those sticks may be, but it one mow possible source. If you can't find a carbon rod to use, let me know and I'll send a couple at 3-4 inches, shaped to use. Now remember, you have a self-protecting circuit breaker in that power-pack. That may prevent it from being used as a resistance soldering power unit. You may have to bypass it by entering the unit and jumpering it. You need to be certain you are doing that correctly before you even begin to try modding the Lionel pack. You should know that means the unit must be unplugged before you put a single tool to open it up. If that basic step was not your first thought, you better not even try to mod the Lionel power pack. Any decently techie type can do the above. But you must be an experienced and thus capable techie type to even try it. Meanwhile, a slightly dinged Luma 551, 900 watt unit for $75 just appeared on eBay...... It looks like it needs a couple of common knobs I can get from an Ace Hardware store. You might consider that unit...... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > I remember someone once mentioning (not on here) that some of the > big, old Lionel transformers could be used for resistance soldering. At > the time I think I was running a display layout with my old KW. If > that's possible I'd like to find more information on how to do it since > I imagine the transformers are likely the most costly part of a > resistance soldering unit. If my old KW could be used for such a purpose > that could make me give it a try. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Why is the man who invests all your money called a "broker"? > > > ---------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20045	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser Mountain

Attachments : I am pretty well ready to fully assemble the Bowser Mountain I got off eBay for $33 that had a soundboard with speaker and a brand new working Helix Humper motor. The motor with the frame/drivers runs beautiful but I intend to make it an earlier run Bowser version. I gave the soundboard to a good Yahoo friend and I got a set of the right tender trucks that were missing from another Yahoo friend. To make the engine retro to the first Bowser cast metal Mountain I am trading motor and entire frame for an open frame Pittman motor with that 1st version frame with another Yahoo train friend. If it works out I will have the earliest Bowser cast metal ( Not the Knapp or Bill Bowser cast brass engine ) that I have to find out when first produced. If early enough I will put it in my collection. If not or the switch doesn't work out the engine will be used on my platform. Either way a project to spend time on. The picture shows the entire engine/tender parts plus a bottle with all the smaller detail parts. Everything had some small nicks so instead of touching it up I decided to do a full paint job. I'll have to decide on what to do with the frame/drivers/valve gear when I decide what one I will use . I had put the parts in brake fluid to clean and found out something interesting that I never ran into before. Two types of paint. The paint on the smaller detail parts ( pilot, power reverse, leading and trailing truck, sand dome,air tanks etc. ) would not clean off using brake fluid. I had to put them in paint remover. That is what the bottle in the picture contains. When I assemble the engine I will add the sand pipes that were not on to start. A fun project at a cheap price. THANKS to all the Yahoo train friends that helped me with parts or trading parts. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20046	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: eBay Bowser Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8392.JPG I have no reason the picture didn't show so I'll try again I am pretty well ready to fully assemble the Bowser Mountain I got off eBay for $33 that had a soundboard with speaker and a brand new working Helix Humper motor. The motor with the frame/drivers runs beautiful but I intend to make it an earlier run Bowser version. I gave the soundboard to a good Yahoo friend and I got a set of the right tender trucks that were missing from another Yahoo friend. To make the engine retro to the first Bowser cast metal Mountain I am trading motor and entire frame for an open frame Pittman motor with that 1st version frame with another Yahoo train friend. If it works out I will have the earliest Bowser cast metal ( Not the Knapp or Bill Bowser cast brass engine ) that I have to find out when first produced. If early enough I will put it in my collection. If not or the switch doesn't work out the engine will be used on my platform. Either way a project to spend time on. The picture shows the entire engine/tender parts plus a bottle with all the smaller detail parts. Everything had some small nicks so instead of touching it up I decided to do a full paint job. I'll have to decide on what to do with the frame/drivers/valve gear when I decide what one I will use . I had put the parts in brake fluid to clean and found out something interesting that I never ran into before. Two types of paint. The paint on the smaller detail parts ( pilot, power reverse, leading and trailing truck, sand dome,air tanks etc. ) would not clean off using brake fluid. I had to put them in paint remover. That is what the bottle in the picture contains. When I assemble the engine I will add the sand pipes that were not on to start. A fun project at a cheap price. THANKS to all the Yahoo train friends that helped me with parts or trading parts. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20047	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

I think I just got one of the Luma tools with my recent spare machine buy. I'll open the box and see. Otherwise I'll measure the rods and tell you the diameter. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 18, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: hey Mke, would those carbon rods you uffered in a pinch fit that lluma unit? Chris Brannigan From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>; To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Resistance solderers Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:31:01 AM   I stopped at Menards for a couple of things and grabbed two more of their larger hobby knives. Any like the larger Xacto hobby knife that has a round hole chuck for craft blades is the type . I work where they use copper skinned carbon rods to burn out bad welds. It's a common tool/supply used in welding work. A good hardware store should have them. I do like the guys at work and sharpen the carbon rod, as is, in an old fashioned wall mount hand cranked pencil sharpener. I then snap off about three inches of that pencil sharp carbon rod and chuck it in the hobby knife. Use an insulated handle knife or rig up an insulated handle. For temporary use, like just a few years, use a out three feet of ordinary electrical extension cord and use both lines of the three feet of it as your power line to the carbon rod holder. I used a heavy duty alligator type clip on the cable to snap onto the metal body of the hobby knife, it's always worked fine. I actually used one of the Xacto insulated knives for this and while it was a primitive tool I never shocked myself and the simple tool always worked well. Later I assembled more elegant versions using the plain all metal hobby knife and the body of a plastic permanent marker. Along with a bolt to attach the cord to the rear of the knife body assembly with a filler of RTV and the more durable type of electrical appliance cord. Do much the same with a simple electrical clamp on the end of another three feet of electrical cord for your ground line to attach to your work. Use any variation of the above to try soldering with your Lionel transformer. I read that at least in the past, ordinary size C and D carbon batteries have a carbon rod as the center part of the construction. If you have to get a carbon rod that way, it should be there. A good artist supply store will have pure carbon rods they use to draw with. I don't know how good of a conductor those sticks may be, but it one mow possible source. If you can't find a carbon rod to use, let me know and I'll send a couple at 3-4 inches, shaped to use. Now remember, you have a self-protecting circuit breaker in that power-pack. That may prevent it from being used as a resistance soldering power unit. You may have to bypass it by entering the unit and jumpering it. You need to be certain you are doing that correctly before you even begin to try modding the Lionel pack. You should know that means the unit must be unplugged before you put a single tool to open it up. If that basic step was not your first thought, you better not even try to mod the Lionel power pack. Any decently techie type can do the above. But you must be an experienced and thus capable techie type to even try it. Meanwhile, a slightly dinged Luma 551, 900 watt unit for $75 just appeared on eBay...... It looks like it needs a couple of common knobs I can get from an Ace Hardware store. You might consider that unit...... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > I remember someone once mentioning (not on here) that some of the > big, old Lionel transformers could be used for resistance soldering. At > the time I think I was running a display layout with my old KW. If > that's possible I'd like to find more information on how to do it since > I imagine the transformers are likely the most costly part of a > resistance soldering unit. If my old KW could be used for such a purpose > that could make me give it a try. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Why is the man who invests all your money called a "broker"? > > > ---------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20048	From: jay matz	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: eBay Bowser Mountain [1 Attachment]

Jim looking at the photo the only thing that is Bowser Mountain is the running gear. The tender is Varney and the boiler is Cary. Jay Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard 1 of 1 Photo(s) IMG_8392.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity: New Members 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20049	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Bowser Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8400.JPG IMG_8399.JPG Jay Matz, I have to disagree with you. While I don't know much about Cary bodies the picture shows the back of the cab which has Bowser on it. Also everything matches the body of the Bowser diagram in the 10th edition ( Page 34 ) of the Bowser reference Manuel right down to the brass walkways. As for the tender the picture doesn't show the word Bowser inside the top of the tender real good. It's hard to notice with the naked eye but I guarantee it's there. Also this 32' tender was originally a Varney design but when Varney went out of business Bowser bought it and used it with their Mountain. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20050	From: jay matz	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain [2 Attachments]

Jim Bowser bought Cary and Varney.  You don't have an original Bowser mountain. You bought one that someone made up of Bowser running gear (which is original) with a Cary boiler and Varney tender. The Bowser Mountains were brass and the tenders were brass. I have 2 Bowser Mountains that my dad bought in the late 40s plus the one he got from his neighbor plus 2 or 3 that I picked up over the years. They are all brass. Jay Matz   IMG_8399.JPG IMG_8400.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20051	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain

Jay, Yes, I'm sure most of us (including Jim H.) are aware that the "original" Bowser Mountain -- by Bill Bowser (Bowser, Redlands, California) -- was cast brass, including a plaster-cast brass boiler and a brass frame, which was bought from Knapp and slightly redesigned. I have six of them, three in kit form, just as you have several. However, Bowser Manufacturing Co. -- by Lew English (Montoursville, PA), who bought out the Bowser company from Bill Bowser produced a die cast metal Mountain using the same "Super Motor" that Bill Bowser used in his Brass Mountain, albeit, this "Super Motor" version was slightly smaller than the somewhat larger Super Motor that came with the original Bowser Challenger (still, extremely powerful though). These Bowser Manufacturing Company die-cast metal Mountains were produce at least as early as 44 to 45 years ago, if not, earlier. I have two "original" Bowser Manufacturing Co. die-cast Mountain kits -- with the Super Motors. My Bowser Manufacturing Co. catalog of 1968 includes this model on page 18, and a letter (dated "Summer 1968") from Lew English indicates this is the second catalog his company offers. What I believe Jim to say is that he wants to make the engine retro to the first Bowser (Manufacturing Co.) DIE-cast metal Mountain. You'll note, that he already mentions that this is NOT the Knapp or Bill Bowser cast brass engine. The Pitman motor would not be retro to this model though, as it was used in later versions. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20052	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Bowser Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8405.JPG IMG_8403.JPG IMG_8402.JPG Jay, I guess we won't come to an agreement so I will just say " I agree to disagree". I too have the cast brass Knapp Mountain and the cast brass Bill Bowser/Redlands CA Mountain. Would you claim the Bill Bowser Mountain he sold was a Knapp after Bill Bowser bought the design and produced his engine and sold it as a Bill Bowser. ( And yes Lew English bought the rights to the Bill Bowser/ Redlands but never produced the cast brass engine or tender ). To me both engines are distinct as far as who sold the engine/tender and under what name. This is my feeling about the Mountain engine/ tender of Lew English / Bowser of Montoursville PA. Yes the tender was Varney in the beginning but this tender was bought out from Varney by Lew English and sold as Bowser. Yes I will agree it was once a Varney product but they went out of business. When my tender was sold it was sold as BOWSER. Same with the engine boiler/cab. It was sold under the BOWSER name because Lew English owned the right to it at the time it was sold. ( Pictures from Bowser Catalog ). How many times some company bought out another company and produced their products. They didn't continue to use the first companies name on products they now own. I can understand the the Tender was first Varneys but Bowser didn't sell it as Varney since he now owned the rights. It was sold as Bowser. Same with the Boiler/Cab. If it was ever Cary, and I don't know, when Lew English /Bowser sold it he had to have the right to it. So for me it's Bowser when it was sold. This is my last message on this subject. Feel free to state other wise but there will be no response. You have the right to believe what you feel. Have a great day and " Never Say Never" Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20053	From: jbark76	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

Gouging rods are the copper clad carbon rods for removing metal with a welder. I also have some because I had to but a box of 50. There are some articles online with ideas on building resistance solderers that I found by Googling. (One I used was by Vance Bass.) I gutted a cheap soldering iron to use with a single rod and a grounding wire, but he shows how he made tweezers with bambo tongs. Power supplies could be large train transformers, car battery chargers, or I use a filiment transformer. (Filiment transformers might be available from HAM radio people, they were used years ago with tubes but have the low voltage/high current needed for soldering.)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20054	From: (no author)	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: (no subject)

Jay,   Seeing as how “someone” also stamped “Bowser” inside both the loco shell and the tender I would have to guess that someone was Lee English or someone who worked for him which. Since he owned Bowser for many years makes Jim loco a Bowser. And, yes, Bowser did have a diecast white metal (Zamac) or whatever boiler mountain long before they acquired Cary Locomotive works. Nowhere ha s Jim attempted to claim that this was from an original run of the Bowser mountain. You’re talking like this loco is a product of a kitbash which it OBVIOUSLY is not!   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jay matz Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:17 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Mountain     Jim Bowser bought Cary and Varney.  You don't have an original Bowser mountain. You bought one that someone made up of Bowser running gear (which is original) with a Cary boiler and Varney tender. The Bowser Mountains were brass and the tenders were brass. I have 2 Bowser Mountains that my dad bought in the late 40s plus the one he got from his neighbor plus 2 or 3 that I picked up over the years. They are all brass. Jay Matz           IMG_8399.JPG IMG_8400.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20055	From: jay matz	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain [3 Attachments]

Jim I had forgotten about the late 60s mountain. They used the Cary boiler with the Varney tender. Because it didn't look like the knapp/Bowser loco I never considered it a Bowser  mountain it was just another loco.  By 1970 I wasn't buying what Bowser had to offer, I had moved on to brass. sometimes I wonder if that was a good idea. As long as you are happy with it that is all that counts.  Jay Matz G Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (6) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20056	From: wseehornjr	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: OFFER: PFM LTM box

I found an EMPTY box that used to have a steam engine module in it. Available for the best offer, including "I'll pay shipping (from Raleigh, NC) Will

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20057	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain

Jay-   Yes, the Bowser Mountains of the 40s were all brass.  The one Jim has is much later, in fact it may be the version produced at the time all steam loco kits were discontinued by Bowser just a few years ago.  In the 60s, Bowser re-introduced the Mountain using a custom made antimony/lead boiler supplied by Cary Locomotive Works (then an independent company). This was a well done model of the USRA heavy 4-8-2, with sharper detail than the earlier brass kit.  Then the "Lead Menace" hit and Bowser started sinking dies to produce Zamac parts, replacing the lead.  The Zamac version did not copy the Cary-supplied boiler except in a general way.  The cab in particular was a departure from the USRA design. Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: jay matz <dlw455@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 18, 2012 9:40 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Mountain Jim Bowser bought Cary and Varney.  You don't have an original Bowser mountain. You bought one that someone made up of Bowser running gear (which is original) with a Cary boiler and Varney tender. The Bowser Mountains were brass and the tenders were brass. I have 2 Bowser Mountains that my dad bought in the late 40s plus the one he got from his neighbor plus 2 or 3 that I picked up over the years. They are all brass. Jay Matz   IMG_8399.JPG IMG_8400.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20058	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain

Didn't the Bowser Mountain have its origin in the prewar Knapp Mountain?  It had a brass or bronze boiler and if memory serves correctly was built to HO gauge, 1/96 scale which made it undersized.  I suspect that the boiler has been all over the place in the years it was in production. John B. Allyn From: "Richard Dipping" <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:34:31 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Mountain   Jay-   Yes, the Bowser Mountains of the 40s were all brass.  The one Jim has is much later, in fact it may be the version produced at the time all steam loco kits were discontinued by Bowser just a few years ago.  In the 60s, Bowser re-introduced the Mountain using a custom made antimony/lead boiler supplied by Cary Locomotive Works (then an independent company). This was a well done model of the USRA heavy 4-8-2, with sharper detail than the earlier brass kit.  Then the "Lead Menace" hit and Bowser started sinking dies to produce Zamac parts, replacing the lead.  The Zamac version did not copy the Cary-supplied boiler except in a general way.  The cab in particular was a departure from the USRA design. Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: jay matz <dlw455@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 18, 2012 9:40 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Mountain Jim Bowser bought Cary and Varney.  You don't have an original Bowser mountain. You bought one that someone made up of Bowser running gear (which is original) with a Cary boiler and Varney tender. The Bowser Mountains were brass and the tenders were brass. I have 2 Bowser Mountains that my dad bought in the late 40s plus the one he got from his neighbor plus 2 or 3 that I picked up over the years. They are all brass. Jay Matz   IMG_8399.JPG IMG_8400.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20059	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Bowser Mountain

Yes, the Knapp pre war cast brass Mountain became the basis of the BILL BOWSER of Redlands CA cast brass Mountain who changed the drivers and valve gear.                                              Jim H On 8/20/2012 12:36 PM, john.allyn@... wrote:   Didn't the Bowser Mountain have its origin in the prewar Knapp Mountain?  It had a brass or bronze boiler and if memory serves correctly was built to HO gauge, 1/96 scale which made it undersized.  I suspect that the boiler has been all over the place in the years it was in production. John B. Allyn From: "Richard Dipping" <richarddipping@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:34:31 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Mountain   Jay-   Yes, the Bowser Mountains of the 40s were all brass.  The one Jim has is much later, in fact it may be the version produced at the time all steam loco kits were discontinued by Bowser just a few years ago.  In the 60s, Bowser re-introduced the Mountain using a custom made antimony/lead boiler supplied by Cary Locomotive Works (then an independent company). This was a well done model of the USRA heavy 4-8-2, with sharper detail than the earlier brass kit.  Then the "Lead Menace" hit and Bowser started sinking dies to produce Zamac parts, replacing the lead.  The Zamac version did not copy the Cary-supplied boiler except in a general way.  The cab in particular was a departure from the USRA design. Richard Dipping. -----Original Message----- From: jay matz <dlw455@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 18, 2012 9:40 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Bowser Mountain Jim Bowser bought Cary and Varney.  You don't have an original Bowser mountain. You bought one that someone made up of Bowser running gear (which is original) with a Cary boiler and Varney tender. The Bowser Mountains were brass and the tenders were brass. I have 2 Bowser Mountains that my dad bought in the late 40s plus the one he got from his neighbor plus 2 or 3 that I picked up over the years. They are all brass. Jay Matz   IMG_8399.JPG IMG_8400.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20060	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Fwd: Cast Metal Bowser Mountain

Attachments : IMG_8407.JPG IMG_8406.JPG If I'm right I sent two pictures of what I believe to be the earliest drive/motor made by LEW ENGLISH BOWSER of Montoursville PA which was cast metal not cast brass. A good friend swapped his old frame / drive for my newer version frame that had a Helix Humper motor added. This way he got what he wanted and I got the old version that will then go into my vintage collection as I was told it was from 1960. Now I have all the original parts that were used on this early version. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20061	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: A Few Fun HO Scale Memories

A post  I saw on Facebook, made me remember a few fun memories I had growing up with model trains. Even as a teenager around the year 2000, when I moved into HO scale (This was my idea of a "Teenage rebellion", as the previous three generations of my dad's side of the family were O gauge guys!), I quickly found interest in the vintage stuff. Well, my sister, who is nearly 5 years younger, often wore her hair in a ponytail. She had these small bands used to hold it together. You all guess what this means. It meant that I would often raid her supply of them (Often, late at night, as I was a night owl, working at my workbench in the basement, and still an honor roll student. Classes that taught what I already knew=naptime.). In the morning, she would throw fits as she would discover her supply of hair bands were GONE! This usually meant that I would best pretend to be sleeping still, as being awake would subject me to her throwing a fit. I mean, hey, I had Athearn Hi-F locomotives that needed to be powered! Couldn't she wear her hair different? Then in English class, we read The  Grapes of Wrath. I enjoyed the book myself. At one point, we had to do a project based on the book. The teacher gave several options, written on the blackboard. She asked for a show of hands for each one. One of the options was to make a diorama portraying a scene from the book. The teacher announced this option, and some hands went up. I raised my hand last, all the others went down! They all seemed to figure my diorama would make their look bad and earn them a lower grade! I'd figured on making a Hooverville, and after its use in the classroom, putting it on my layout. As such, I went all-out on it. Used a junk Accurail USRA boxcar for a shanty, lots of lichen for scenery, got a great grade on it. Still have it somewhere in dad's basement. Got a few others to share, but am now feeling sleepy, and it hurts to type. Been typing HTML most of the evening! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20062	From: Chris B	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Resistance solderers

Mike, the Luma unit arrived yesterday, and when I went looking online for info on the unit and electrodes, I found: www.lumaelectricco.com,  and the 1pg manual for the Model 551 900w unit at: www.lumaelectricco.com/Merch/DocumentHandler.ashx?doc=33 I also found a cheap online source for all three sizes of rods, and the plunger for replacing rods, (and new not-so-cheap Luma units and handpieces) at: http://stellartechnical.com/luma.aspx Thanks for posting about these units.  I'm in the middle of 3 weeks off between changing jobs (after 30 years with USPS IT, I'm moving to FAA IT), and I'm free to spend almost all of my time at home working on my layout, and on the brass roster for that layout, so the timing is perfect! Chris Brannigan From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Resistance solderers   I think I just got one of the Luma tools with my recent spare machine buy. I'll open the box and see. Otherwise I'll measure the rods and tell you the diameter. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 18, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: hey Mke, would those carbon rods you uffered in a pinch fit that lluma unit? Chris Brannigan From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>; To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Resistance solderers Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:31:01 AM   I stopped at Menards for a couple of things and grabbed two more of their larger hobby knives. Any like the larger Xacto hobby knife that has a round hole chuck for craft blades is the type . I work where they use copper skinned carbon rods to burn out bad welds. It's a common tool/supply used in welding work. A good hardware store should have them. I do like the guys at work and sharpen the carbon rod, as is, in an old fashioned wall mount hand cranked pencil sharpener. I then snap off about three inches of that pencil sharp carbon rod and chuck it in the hobby knife. Use an insulated handle knife or rig up an insulated handle. For temporary use, like just a few years, use a out three feet of ordinary electrical extension cord and use both lines of the three feet of it as your power line to the carbon rod holder. I used a heavy duty alligator type clip on the cable to snap onto the metal body of the hobby knife, it's always worked fine. I actually used one of the Xacto insulated knives for this and while it was a primitive tool I never shocked myself and the simple tool always worked well. Later I assembled more elegant versions using the plain all metal hobby knife and the body of a plastic permanent marker. Along with a bolt to attach the cord to the rear of the knife body assembly with a filler of RTV and the more durable type of electrical appliance cord. Do much the same with a simple electrical clamp on the end of another three feet of electrical cord for your ground line to attach to your work. Use any variation of the above to try soldering with your Lionel transformer. I read that at least in the past, ordinary size C and D carbon batteries have a carbon rod as the center part of the construction. If you have to get a carbon rod that way, it should be there. A good artist supply store will have pure carbon rods they use to draw with. I don't know how good of a conductor those sticks may be, but it one mow possible source. If you can't find a carbon rod to use, let me know and I'll send a couple at 3-4 inches, shaped to use. Now remember, you have a self-protecting circuit breaker in that power-pack. That may prevent it from being used as a resistance soldering power unit. You may have to bypass it by entering the unit and jumpering it. You need to be certain you are doing that correctly before you even begin to try modding the Lionel pack. You should know that means the unit must be unplugged before you put a single tool to open it up. If that basic step was not your first thought, you better not even try to mod the Lionel power pack. Any decently techie type can do the above. But you must be an experienced and thus capable techie type to even try it. Meanwhile, a slightly dinged Luma 551, 900 watt unit for $75 just appeared on eBay...... It looks like it needs a couple of common knobs I can get from an Ace Hardware store. You might consider that unit...... Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > I remember someone once mentioning (not on here) that some of the > big, old Lionel transformers could be used for resistance soldering. At > the time I think I was running a display layout with my old KW. If > that's possible I'd like to find more information on how to do it since > I imagine the transformers are likely the most costly part of a > resistance soldering unit. If my old KW could be used for such a purpose > that could make me give it a try. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Why is the man who invests all your money called a "broker"? > > > ---------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20063	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: WTB: Athearn RTR Via Rail Canada P42's

Hi all----I would like to buy one, some or all of the Athearn RTR VIA Rail Canada P42's. I prefer new-in-box units. http://www.walkerweb.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG_7184_thumb.jpg If you have any, some, or all of these units, please contact me off-Group at: bnsf5264(at)yahoo(dot)com Thanks! Matt Martin Tempe, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20064	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Moving ahead

Attachments : IMG_8412.JPG Started to put back together the 4-8-2 Bowser/ Lew English cast metal Mountain I won on eBay. Got some items painted and added some of the details plus fixed a few minor problems. With the old style frame,motor and drive I will have a really nice first version Mountain by Lew English. I don't know if it's original for the first cast metal Mountain but I like the heavy brass piece around the axle of the back trailing wheel. It rides the track nice backing up or going through switches. I'm told made in 1960 it will fit in my vintage collection. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20065	From: Chris B	Date: 8/24/2012
Subject: still ISO early vintage HO brass freight cars; was Re: [vintageHO] R

Attachments : samples - early vintage imported HO brass rolling stock for W&OD layout.jpg Mike, thanks for posting the ebay listing in the first place; I'm using my 250W unit all day today soldering flex track joints on the layout; but this Luma unit will be the perfect power tool for the bashing and scratch building I've got in mind to complete the W&OD WWII era roster in unpainted/tarnished brass.  I'm still looking for more early vintage imported brass freight cars (Intl., etc) to fill out the roster for eventual layout operations, especially hoppers and gondolas, but also early box, stock & tank cars, ; contact me off list if you have any you'd like to sell or trade; the rougher the better, no boxes, trucks, couplers needed, but if they're there, or if they're painted,  I'll pay whatever they add to the value of the model. The plan is to run tarnished beat up unpainted brass engines and cars as the equivalent of weathered models, I can't get over how cool they look when that's all you see on the layout. Thanks, Chris Brannigan

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20066	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/24/2012
Subject: Re: still ISO early vintage HO brass freight cars; was Re: [vintageH

Hi Chris, They look neat in the photo you sent.  Hope you can send a photo of them on your layout. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Chris B Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:07 AM To: Vint Ho; mwbauers55@wi rr. com Subject: still ISO early vintage HO brass freight cars; was Re: [vintageHO] Resistance solderers [1 Attachment]     Mike, thanks for posting the ebay listing in the first place; I'm using my 250W unit all day today soldering flex track joints on the layout;   but this Luma unit will be the perfect power tool for the bashing and scratch building I've got in mind to complete the W&OD WWII era roster in unpainted/tarnished brass.    I'm still looking for more early vintage imported brass freight cars (Intl., etc) to fill out the roster for eventual layout operations, especially hoppers and gondolas, but also early box, stock & tank cars, ; contact me off list if you have any you'd like to sell or trade; the rougher the better, no boxes, trucks, couplers needed, but if they're there, or if they're painted,  I'll pay whatever they add to the value of the model.   The plan is to run tarnished beat up unpainted brass engines and cars as the equivalent of weathered models, I can't get over how cool they look when that's all you see on the layout.     Thanks, Chris Brannigan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20067	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/24/2012
Subject: Re: Moving ahead [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim. Good to see you ready to put this engine together. It's good also to see an "exploded" view of this engine. By the looks of your motor, it appears it may be a Bowser "Super Motor" used not only in Bill Bowser's brass Mountain, but also in Lew English's original cast metal USRA Mountain, first produced in 1958. I don't know why you'd want to change it if it is. One thing I can't quite make out in you photos, is whether the top shoulders of the motor are squared off or whether they're rounded. To me, it appears they're rounded but then, I don't know who else could have manufactured a motor similar to the Super Motor. The Bowser Super Motor was squared off at the top shoulders. There's one other thing that puzzles me a bit, and that thing is what that pic of the two slightly different boilers are to represent in your post of 8/19 @ 10:59 am ("last message" to Jay). They're obviously different from each other, as one is seen right away not to have a sand dome. They look close to Lew English's original cast metal Mountain, but then, the original version did not have a divided window. I note neither one is the boiler you got with this Mountain you're working on, but probably later-than-original Bowser Mfg USRA versions, one with having it's dome removed for whatever reason. Your 10th Edition Bowser Reference Manual would probably place it's publication date in the mid 1980's, so this would probably coincide with Lew English using a Cary Boiler as I believe the Cary company was already bought by him by then. The original Bowser Mfg cast metal Mountain boiler did not have the word "Bowser" cast into it, but it's undoubtedly a Bowser Mfg boiler (of the Cary design of the '80's). This 1980's Cary boiler is not found in Cary catalogs as far as I'm aware, as even before Cary came under Lew English's control, it was made exclusively for Bowser Mfg. This same thing hold true for the original Bowser Mfg cast metal USRA Mountain boiler -- it was made by Cary Locomotive Works exclusively for Bowser Mfg Co, from 1958 to 1970, and not offered to the public. You'll note though, that this later Bowser/Cary Mountain boiler has a one-piece (brass) running board on each side, as compared to the original Bowser Mfg USRA Mountain design of having two (cast-on) separate running boards on each side, each at different heights from each other. Only you can decide if this would fit in with your 1960 or before collecting date, as the boiler is much newer (and of a new design), but all of the mechanism appears to be the original design, even possibly including the motor. Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20068	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Moving ahead

Hi Ray,     Will try to answer about the different boilers but really can't tell you much. In my effort to swap the frame with Helix Humper motor on I was being sent the older frame with the motor I sent pictures to you of. Because both Jay & I were unsure if the cab / boiler I had would fit he sent other boilers in case. My boiler fit so I honestly didn't check the other boilers out. It might seem like a poor answer but it's the best I can do. I honestly didn't check out details on the different boilers. Just kept the on I won on eBay.      Thanks for the other information you sent especially about my Bowser catalog. Hope you have a great day. I;m still dealing with my medical problem now at 16 months.                                                                     Jim On 8/24/2012 9:53 AM, erieberk@... wrote:   Hi Jim. Good to see you ready to put this engine together. It's good also to see an "exploded" view of this engine. By the looks of your motor, it appears it may be a Bowser "Super Motor" used not only in Bill Bowser's brass Mountain, but also in Lew English's original cast metal USRA Mountain, first produced in 1958. I don't know why you'd want to change it if it is. One thing I can't quite make out in you photos, is whether the top shoulders of the motor are squared off or whether they're rounded. To me, it appears they're rounded but then, I don't know who else could have manufactured a motor similar to the Super Motor. The Bowser Super Motor was squared off at the top shoulders. There's one other thing that puzzles me a bit, and that thing is what that pic of the two slightly different boilers are to represent in your post of 8/19 @ 10:59 am ("last message" to Jay). They're obviously different from each other, as one is seen right away not to have a sand dome. They look close to Lew English's original cast metal Mountain, but then, the original version did not have a divided window. I note neither one is the boiler you got with this Mountain you're working on, but probably later-than-original Bowser Mfg USRA versions, one with having it's dome removed for whatever reason. Your 10th Edition Bowser Reference Manual would probably place it's publication date in the mid 1980's, so this would probably coincide with Lew English using a Cary Boiler as I believe the Cary company was already bought by him by then. The original Bowser Mfg cast metal Mountain boiler did not have the word "Bowser" cast into it, but it's undoubtedly a Bowser Mfg boiler (of the Cary design of the '80's). This 1980's Cary boiler is not found in Cary catalogs as far as I'm aware, as even before Cary came under Lew English's control, it was made exclusively for Bowser Mfg. This same thing hold true for the original Bowser Mfg cast metal USRA Mountain boiler -- it was made by Cary Locomotive Works exclusively for Bowser Mfg Co, from 1958 to 1970, and not offered to the public. You'll note though, that this later Bowser/Cary Mountain boiler has a one-piece (brass) running board on each side, as compared to the original Bowser Mfg USRA Mountain design of having two (cast-on) separate running boards on each side, each at different heights from each other. Only you can decide if this would fit in with your 1960 or before collecting date, as the boiler is much newer (and of a new design), but all of the mechanism appears to be the original design, even possibly including the motor. Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20069	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Moving ahead

Hi Jim, I can understand about not wanting to get the little woman upset when there's still lots to do and you're expecting company. Thanks for clearing that up about the frame and motor you included in your most recent photo. Last I knew, you were looking for a new motor -- preferably a Pittman DC-71, as you didn't want the Helix Humper. Didn't realize you located a new frame and motor, but I should have realized that this is certainly not a Helix Humper you have now. That was great of Jay to send you those two boilers to try out. At least you had a good selection to choose from. Have an enjoyable time putting this machine back together. Like Varney, Bowser engines build up nicely and run just as well. A bit off the present topic, but still of interest to this group, is that there's another (not that there are many) Penn Line Crusader now up on eBay. I know that some members here have at least one, besides you and I, so unless you want another -- the Reading Company did have two -- it's probably not of much interest to you except for the eBay page itself. The eBay number is 280948807438; it supposedly runs well, and comes with the original box which is an inducement to look into it. Still, it's being offered as a Buy It Now -- at $2,500.00. He apparently is taking offers though, as there's a slot for Best Offer and a provision to click onto "Best Offer." He's had two such offers up until now, but there's no way of knowing how much. That's a shrewd way of having a Chinese Auction and not having to devulge the bid offers to other potential buyers. Yes, I know you're still far from being up to par. Sure hope the doctors get to the bottom of your problems soon, and that you're feeling better in the very near future. Best of luck on your modeling and on your health. Regards, Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20070	From: Matt Martin	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: WTB: Atlas Classic RS-3 Lehigh & Hudson River

Hi all--I am in search of the Atlas Classic RS-3's in Lehigh & Hudson River Dark Green & Yellow paint. L&HR RS-3 #4 -- Atlas Part #8346 L&HR RS-3 #11 -- Atlas Part #8347 L&HR RS-3 No# -- Atlas Part #8348 Here is a photo: http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOLocomotives/hors3/8346.gif Please contact me offlist at: bnsf5264(at)yahoo(dot)com Thanks! Matt Martin Tempe, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20071	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20072	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

Steve-   I picked up a couple of CV cupola CASTINGS a few years back.  I don't recall if there were additional parts in the kit. Maybe a marker light. Maybe a sheet wood roof overlay. But all I got was the basic casting.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:44 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20073	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

Richard,   I just found a listing for these in the 1980 Walthers catalog.  The drawing shows the cupola itself and a separate thin “roof” overlay sheet that goes on the cupola roof, marker light with jewels, and the window “glass.”   The basic casting is all I need.   If you want to sell the ones you have, please let me know.   Thanks,   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:04 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits     Steve-   I picked up a couple of CV cupola CASTINGS a few years back.  I don't recall if there were additional parts in the kit. Maybe a marker light. Maybe a sheet wood roof overlay. But all I got was the basic casting.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:44 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20074	From: Richard	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Broken Varney Main Rod

Would anyone have one 2-8-0 main rod for sale, so I can save this nice old gal? Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20075	From: gary pardue	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Broken Varney Main Rod

Richard, Try Dan Bush  www.yardbirdtrains.com   He should have what you want. Gary --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Richard <rh@...> wrote: From: Richard <rh@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Broken Varney Main Rod To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 5:46 PM   Would anyone have one 2-8-0 main rod for sale, so I can save this nice old gal? Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20076	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

Steven,   I'll check to see what I've got. ('Where' may be more crucial.) Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 3:31 pm Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits Richard,   I just found a listing for these in the 1980 Walthers catalog.  The drawing shows the cupola itself and a separate thin “roof” overlay sheet that goes on the cupola roof, marker light with jewels, and the window “glass.”   The basic casting is all I need.   If you want to sell the ones you have, please let me know.   Thanks,   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:04 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits     Steve-   I picked up a couple of CV cupola CASTINGS a few years back.  I don't recall if there were additional parts in the kit. Maybe a marker light. Maybe a sheet wood roof overlay. But all I got was the basic casting.   Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 1:44 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20077	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Broken Varney Main Rod

Richard-   Which Varney 2-8-0 is this?  The Reading I-10sa or the Old Lady?   Richard (in Wisconsin) -----Original Message----- From: Richard <rh@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:46 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Broken Varney Main Rod Would anyone have one 2-8-0 main rod for sale, so I can save this nice old gal? Richard in Vermont ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20078	From: Richard	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Broken Varney Main Rod

This would be the Old Lady. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Richard- > > Which Varney 2-8-0 is this? The Reading I-10sa or the Old Lady? > > Richard (in Wisconsin) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard <rh@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 4:46 pm > Subject: [vintageHO] Broken Varney Main Rod > > > Would anyone have one 2-8-0 main rod for sale, so I can save this nice old gal? > ichard in Vermont > > ------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20079	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

I don't know if this will work, but did you try Central Valley?  They actually have left over caboose doors they are selling. http://www.shop.cvmw.com/ZinkDie-castCabooseSideDoors-6-1100.htm  Maybe he has one or two left over cupolas?  Try sending him an email. If all else fails, just make one out of styrene or wood, it is pretty simple.  I scratchbuilt a caboose about 40 years ago and did not like any of the cast cupola's available, so I scratchbuilt one as a novice builder and it looks really good and was not that difficult.  I still have that caboose on my layout.  It still looks great.  If you need the dimensions and photos, I can provide them. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tenncentralrwy@... Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:11:37 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20080	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Further along

Attachments : IMG_8421.JPG Have made further strides to complete what will be, for the most part, the earliest cast metal Bowser / Lew English Mountain. Had to use different brass pilot ( the original and ladders in bad shape ) and one repro detail in front of cab on boiler top. You have to remember this was not a mint kit to assemble. This was almost a basket case. I did trade the frame and Helix Humper motor I had for the early frame with the early super motor. Just finding right size screws, washer and springs in my stash of parts took a while. Some minor problems had to be fixed also. The motor is just set in place as the flexible tubing for driving the engine is slipping. I have a piece that is a little to thick and trying to find a better piece. Ran out of my rattle can flat black to paint boiler / cab and tender body. Motor, drivers, drive and valve gear work nice. Still moving ahead. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20081	From: nico	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

Okay, I am an Athearn 1960's Pacific fan! I have gotten in a lot of trouble for being one, but I like these locomotives, over Mantua's "as-old-as-the-hills" design! I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about the mechenics of the plastic driving wheel version (the frames, the general layout, electrical, maybe assembly instructions, just in case...)? I also am interested in buying Athearn 1960's 4-6-2. Any information, and/or locomotives for sale, would be great. Heavenly Father bless, and thank you!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20082	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

I have 2 Athearn Pacific's, new in the box, that I will never use.  One plastic driver and one metal driver.  Both B&M.  One is a train set box.  They are a much better looking loco than the Mantua and the B&M Historical Society published the article on upgrading it to a fine running model.  They are not cheap however.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20083	From: David J. Starr	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

On 8/28/2012 1:12 PM, nico wrote: Okay, I am an Athearn 1960's Pacific fan! I have gotten in a lot of trouble for being one, but I like these locomotives, over Mantua's "as-old-as-the-hills" design! I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about the mechenics of the plastic driving wheel version (the frames, the general layout, electrical, maybe assembly instructions, just in case...)? I also am interested in buying Athearn 1960's 4-6-2. Any information, and/or locomotives for sale, would be great. Heavenly Father bless, and thank you! ------------------------------------ I got an Athearn Pacific off Ebay.  It was in rough shape.  The pilot was broken off, probably from a trip to the floor. As it came to me: http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0062.jpg http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0063.jpg Here is the mechanism with the boiler removed. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0488.jpg Here is the new pilot built up from brass castings. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0498.jpg And here it is back together painted and decaled. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0876.jpg It runs, but very poorly.  The tender electrical pickup is flakey, causing halts and stoppages.  After considerable tinkering I retired it to my display shelf. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20084	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs

All, Friend of mine today gave me some Rivarossi coaches. He hasn't been into model railroading since the 1970s, and even then, it was Lionel O gauge, and more his daughter that was into it. He had some HO scale used for forced perspective on their layout. Also got from him a Rivarossi Big Boy, 0-8-0 steam switcher, some Mantua old time coaches, an AHM Lincoln funeral car, and two Tri-Ang American old style coaches, plus a few Rivarossi Santa Fe heavyweights. Today he found two more Rivarossi heavyweight cars, one coach, the other a combine baggage/coach. The combine car's roof is badly damaged. Fixing to replace it. A Walthers plastic roof I found, one of the NPP made ones, fits in width, and arch over the car end, but is about a 3/8" too short. Does anyone know if Northeastern wood clerestory roofs will fit width-wise? They come in three foot lengths, so that isn't a problem. Just not sure if the width of the Northeastern roofs will match the Rivarossi carbody. Otherwise, I'll splice together two shorter spare Walthers/NPP roofs. Thanks -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20085	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

The hobby shop I frequent has some old metal caboose cupola castings. One of them I remember seeing in there was a NOS part, looked like a 19th century cupola. May have been Central Valley. They recently moved to Kenosha, WI, and are still setting up, but I will call Bob there and ask if he knows where his bins of detail parts are at. For what it's worth, I've found some real goodies at his shop in the past. Bought a bunch of NOS Cary lead F unit bodies at one point. Got some old Suydam kits too. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:11 PM   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20086	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

OK, Steve, thanks.  Please let me know what you find out from him.    Best regards,   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:44 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits     The hobby shop I frequent has some old metal caboose cupola castings. One of them I remember seeing in there was a NOS part, looked like a 19th century cupola. May have been Central Valley. They recently moved to Kenosha, WI, and are still setting up, but I will call Bob there and ask if he knows where his bins of detail parts are at. For what it's worth, I've found some real goodies at his shop in the past. Bought a bunch of NOS Cary lead F unit bodies at one point. Got some old Suydam kits too. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:11 PM   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20087	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

The Athearn Pacifics are hard to find in decent shape these days... the ones that are being sold, anyway. There are three basic frame types that I have come across, with one of them... I presume the earliest, having a flat motor cavity with a notch in the floor where you can place an early motor in a position that would work for the aborted legendary Hi F drive version of this loco. I have pieced together several clunkers to make one complete loco that has the metal drivers for electrical pickup, and pickup from the tender as well. With that many wheels picking up current, and some tweaking of the motor and all contacts... it is not a bad runner. Not looking to sell it, though.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20088	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

I would bet they are most likely Silver Streak cupolas.  They are not bad, but not like the Central Valley ones.  The hobby shop may be a good deal.  I know you can get the Silver Streak cupolas from Ye Old Huff n Puff, for $4.00 plus $8.00 shipping.  I doubt the hobby shop would charge as much.  I bought a few of the Silver Streak cupolas from hobby shops years ago. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:44:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   The hobby shop I frequent has some old metal caboose cupola castings. One of them I remember seeing in there was a NOS part, looked like a 19th century cupola. May have been Central Valley. They recently moved to Kenosha, WI, and are still setting up, but I will call Bob there and ask if he knows where his bins of detail parts are at. For what it's worth, I've found some real goodies at his shop in the past. Bought a bunch of NOS Cary lead F unit bodies at one point. Got some old Suydam kits too. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:11 PM   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20089	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Further along [1 Attachment]

Looking good JIM ! Going to be one fine model when you get it restored. And those motors are a honey...according to Bill Bowser, less than a dozen were ever returned for replacement! Jake in Alabama On 8/28/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Have made further strides to complete what will be, for the most > part, the earliest cast metal Bowser / Lew English Mountain. Had to use > different brass pilot ( the original and ladders in bad shape ) and one > repro detail in front of cab on boiler top. You have to remember this > was not a mint kit to assemble. This was almost a basket case. I did > trade the frame and Helix Humper motor I had for the early frame with > the early super motor. Just finding right size screws, washer and > springs in my stash of parts took a while. Some minor problems had to be > fixed also. The motor is just set in place as the flexible tubing for > driving the engine is slipping. I have a piece that is a little to thick > and trying to find a better piece. Ran out of my rattle can flat black > to paint boiler / cab and tender body. Motor, drivers, drive and valve > gear work nice. Still moving ahead. > > Jim H > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20090	From: Richard	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

David, You did an excellent job on replacing the pilot on your Athearn Pacific. I have five of these beauties and am currently working on up-dating one of them per the B&M Modelers Notes article using Bowser wheels. Athearn went thru three revisions and the first production is complete junk because of its drive. The easy way to tell this one is by looking underneath. If you can see an exposed axle gear, stay away from this one unless you just what it for a shelf model. The second version had plastic drivers and got its power from the tender wheels. The last version is the best one because the drivers are metal. The weak point is the all plastic gear box but if you can find a good one they can be made to run quite well. I have been able to get them to run OK with everything all stock factory and I have installed a can motor in another one that runs even better. I have always thought it strange that Irv Athearn picked the B&M P-4 as the prototype for this model but I am glad he did because it is the only mass produced P-4 model other than the expensive brass ones. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> wrote: > > On 8/28/2012 1:12 PM, nico wrote: > > Okay, I am an Athearn 1960's Pacific fan! I have gotten in a lot of trouble for being one, but I like these locomotives, over Mantua's "as-old-as-the-hills" design! I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about the mechenics of the plastic driving wheel version (the frames, the general layout, electrical, maybe assembly instructions, just in case...)? I also am interested in buying Athearn 1960's 4-6-2. Any information, and/or locomotives for sale, would be great. Heavenly Father bless, and thank you! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > I got an Athearn Pacific off Ebay. It was in rough shape. The pilot > was broken off, probably from a trip to the floor. > > As it came to me: > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0062.jpg > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0063.jpg > Here is the mechanism with the boiler removed. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0488.jpg > Here is the new pilot built up from brass castings. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0498.jpg > And here it is back together painted and decaled. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0876.jpg > > It runs, but very poorly. The tender electrical pickup is flakey, > causing halts and stoppages. After considerable tinkering I retired it > to my display shelf. > > > > > -- > David J > > David J. Starr > > Blog:http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20091	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

Bitter Creek sells some cupolas... george From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   I would bet they are most likely Silver Streak cupolas.  They are not bad, but not like the Central Valley ones.  The hobby shop may be a good deal.  I know you can get the Silver Streak cupolas from Ye Old Huff n Puff, for $4.00 plus $8.00 shipping.  I doubt the hobby shop would charge as much.  I bought a few of the Silver Streak cupolas from hobby shops years ago. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:44:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits  The hobby shop I frequent has some old metal caboose cupola castings. One of them I remember seeing in there was a NOS part, looked like a 19th century cupola. May have been Central Valley. They recently moved to Kenosha, WI, and are still setting up, but I will call Bob there and ask if he knows where his bins of detail parts are at. For what it's worth, I've found some real goodies at his shop in the past. Bought a bunch of NOS Cary lead F unit bodies at one point. Got some old Suydam kits too. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:11 PM   Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20092	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

George,   I wasn’t aware of those.  They appear to be the old Red Ball/Wabash Valley parts.   http://bittercreekmodels.com/page5.html     Thanks,   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo Stahlberg Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits     Bitter Creek sells some cupolas... george   From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   I would bet they are most likely Silver Streak cupolas.  They are not bad, but not like the Central Valley ones.  The hobby shop may be a good deal.  I know you can get the Silver Streak cupolas from Ye Old Huff n Puff, for $4.00 plus $8.00 shipping.  I doubt the hobby shop would charge as much.  I bought a few of the Silver Streak cupolas from hobby shops years ago.Regards,Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.comFrom: computersystemrebuild@...: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:44:09 -0700Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits  The hobby shop I frequent has some old metal caboose cupola castings. One of them I remember seeing in there was a NOS part, looked like a 19th century cupola. May have been Central Valley. They recently moved to Kenosha, WI, and are still setting up, but I will call Bob there and ask if he knows where his bins of detail parts are at. For what it's worth, I've found some real goodies at his shop in the past. Bought a bunch of NOS Cary lead F unit bodies at one point. Got some old Suydam kits too. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:11 PM     Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20093	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Central Valley caboose cupola kits

For what it's worth, on that Bittercreek models site, the B-2829 cupola is the one that the hobby shop has, that I had mentioned. I called Bob this morning there, he said he is not sure where the detail parts are at right now, but will keep an eye out as boxes are unpacked. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 8/29/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2012, 1:45 PM   George,   I wasn’t aware of those.  They appear to be the old Red Ball/Wabash Valley parts.   http://bittercreekmodels.com/page5.html     Thanks,   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo Stahlberg Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits     Bitter Creek sells some cupolas... george   From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits   I would bet they are most likely Silver Streak cupolas.  They are not bad, but not like the Central Valley ones.  The hobby shop may be a good deal.  I know you can get the Silver Streak cupolas from Ye Old Huff n Puff, for $4.00 plus $8.00 shipping.  I doubt the hobby shop would charge as much.  I bought a few of the Silver Streak cupolas from hobby shops years ago.Regards,Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.comFrom: computersystemrebuild@...: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:44:09 -0700Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits  The hobby shop I frequent has some old metal caboose cupola castings. One of them I remember seeing in there was a NOS part, looked like a 19th century cupola. May have been Central Valley. They recently moved to Kenosha, WI, and are still setting up, but I will call Bob there and ask if he knows where his bins of detail parts are at. For what it's worth, I've found some real goodies at his shop in the past. Bought a bunch of NOS Cary lead F unit bodies at one point. Got some old Suydam kits too. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: From: Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley caboose cupola kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:11 PM     Does anyone know a source for the Central Valley “Old Time” caboose cupola kits?    Thanks,   Steve Johnson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20094	From: Watermans	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Further along

Nice looking engine, Jim. Drive train looks good too. Will you paint this one? Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20095	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Further along

Yes will paint. Have all small parts, frame  and under tender floor done. Started to paint tender body. Boiler has some detail parts to put on. Trying to decide if I will add any piping since it seems it was left to builder. If I do I don't want to take away from original engine for vintage collection. Guess I'll flip a coin. Will add Anthracite coal to tender. Maybe decal.                               Jim H On 8/29/2012 5:28 PM, Watermans wrote:   Nice looking engine, Jim. Drive train looks good too. Will you paint this one? Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20096	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Fwd: Great Train Expo in Costa Mesa, CA September 8 & 9, 2012

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Great Train Expo <bill@...> Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:02 AM Subject: Great Train Expo in Costa Mesa, CA September 8 & 9, 2012 To: gn5263@... Great Train Expo Costa Mesa, CA  September 8 & 9, 2012   Show Schedule   09/08-09/2012 Costa Mesa, CA Orange County Fairgrounds   09/15-16/2012 San Jose, CA Santa Clara Co. Fairgrounds    10/06-07/2012 Rock Island, IL QCCA Expo Center   10/13-14/2012 Indianapolis, IN Indiana State Fairgrounds   10/27-28/2012 Norcross, GA North Atlanta Trade Center   11/03-04/2012 Shakopee, MN Canterbury Park   11/10-11/2012 Denver, CO National Western Complex   11/17-18/2012      Salt Lake City, UT  South Towne Exposition Center   11/24-25/2012 Collinsville, IL Gateway Center    11/24-25/2012   San Jose, CA Santa Clara County Fairgrounds   12/01-02/2012 Del Mar, CA Del Mar Fairgrounds    12/08-09/2012 Novi, MI Suburban Collection Showplace    12/08-09/2012 Portland, OR Portland Expo Center   12/15-16/2012 Puyallup, WA Puyallup Fair & Expo Center   12/29-30/2012 Overland Park, KS Overland Park International Trade Center   01/05-06/2013 Indianapolis, IN Indiana State Fairgrounds   01/05-06/2013 Anaheim, CA Anaheim Convention Center   01/12-13/2013 Marina Dist of Richmond, CA Craneway Pavilion   01/19-20/2013 Columbus, OH Ohio Expo Center   01/19-20/2013 Sacramento, CA Cal Expo   01/26-27/2012 Belleville, IL Belle-Clair Fairgrounds   01/26-27/2013 Colorado Springs, CO Freedom Financial Services Expo   02/02-03/2013 Council Bluffs, IA Mid America Center   02/09-10/2013 Houston, TX Reliant Park   02/16-17/2013 Louisville, KY Kentucky International Convention Center   02/16-17/2013 Santa Rosa, CA Sonoma County Fairgrounds   02/23-24/2013 Dayton, OH Hara Arena   03/09-10/2013 Atlanta, GA Cobb Galleria Centre   03/16-17/2013 Wichita, KS Century II                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 The Great Train Expo is pleased to be returning to Costa Mesa, CA   We are back at the Orange County Fairgrounds for the first time in Three years! Come and see us! Where: Orange County Fairgrounds 88 Fair Drive, Costa Mesa, CA  92626 Directions to the Fairgrounds  When: September 8 & 9, 2012 10:00am to 4:00pm, Both Days   Cost: Adults: $7.00 Kids under 12: FREE!! Show Features: a PACKED BUILDING full of dealers with ALL Sizes & Scales! Engines, Rollins Stock, DVD's, Hats, Scenery Material, Track, T-Shirts, Books, Magazines, Thomas, New, Used, Collectible, Everything Trains! 300+ Tables! 50+ Exhibitors from across the country!  Operating Model Railroads in Many sizes and Scales!  Trains Kids Can Play With! a HUGE riding train for kids!  Free Demonstrations Door Prizes and Much, Much More! Contact Us Interested in Becoming an Exhibitor?  Have Questions?  Contact Us At: Great Train Expo - P.O. Box 725, Oswego, IL 60543 - E-Mail Us! Phone: 630/608-4988, Fax: 630/566-0400, Visit Our Web Site!   Forward email This email was sent to gn5263@... by bill@... |   Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Great Train Expo | PO Box 725 | Oswego | IL | 60543 -- I had a stroke.   I will reply to your e-mail in 3 days!  thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20097	From: Nelson	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

I have the same '62 version, but mine runs quite well. The tender pickup can be dicey, but polishing the bolsters helps, also tweaking the shape of the drawbar so that it doesn't rest on the trailing truck or lift the tender. The weak link is the motor, so that will get a magnet transplant when I get around to it. There was a huge discussion and breakdown of these here a few years ago. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> > I got an Athearn Pacific off Ebay. It was in rough shape. The pilot > was broken off, probably from a trip to the floor. > > As it came to me: > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0062.jpg > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0063.jpg > Here is the mechanism with the boiler removed. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0488.jpg > Here is the new pilot built up from brass castings. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0498.jpg > And here it is back together painted and decaled. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0876.jpg > > It runs, but very poorly. The tender electrical pickup is flakey, > causing halts and stoppages. After considerable tinkering I retired it > to my display shelf. > > -- > David J >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20098	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs

Hi Stephen, I can't tell you if the Northeastern clerestory roof will fit that car, but I will post the dimensions of the roof.  The Northeastern roof is 1.41" or about 1/32" more than 1 3/8" (1 13/32") across the full width.  Across the interior part (rabbetted part) we have 1.23" or right about 1 1/8". Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:39:31 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs   All, Friend of mine today gave me some Rivarossi coaches. He hasn't been into model railroading since the 1970s, and even then, it was Lionel O gauge, and more his daughter that was into it. He had some HO scale used for forced perspective on their layout. Also got from him a Rivarossi Big Boy, 0-8-0 steam switcher, some Mantua old time coaches, an AHM Lincoln funeral car, and two Tri-Ang American old style coaches, plus a few Rivarossi Santa Fe heavyweights. Today he found two more Rivarossi heavyweight cars, one coach, the other a combine baggage/coach. The combine car's roof is badly damaged. Fixing to replace it. A Walthers plastic roof I found, one of the NPP made ones, fits in width, and arch over the car end, but is about a 3/8" too short. Does anyone know if Northeastern wood clerestory roofs will fit width-wise? They come in three foot lengths, so that isn't a problem. Just not sure if the width of the Northeastern roofs will match the Rivarossi carbody. Otherwise, I'll splice together two shorter spare Walthers/NPP roofs. Thanks -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20099	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

A major boost in performance comes from using an electronic cleaning/conditioner fluid on all electrical conducting surfaces. It makes the surfaces act as if they are gold-plated for many months. Not considering the condition of the motor, this simple treatment of something similar to tuner cleaner brings the electrical path to fresh as-new condition. I became convinced of this when I gave the treatment to the mostly Zamak electrical path of an Athearn 0-4-2t that had sat on the shelf for almost 25 years. It went from only able to move a quarter turn of the drivers to running very much like it was a new Kato. Standard oil and grease were used in the proper places in modest amounts before I tried the 'stuff' and then saw the model come to a fresh life. I swear by this simple method as part of an annual shopping of a model. It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 29, 2012, at 8:17 PM, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > I have the same '62 version, but mine runs quite well. The tender pickup can be dicey, but polishing the bolsters helps, also tweaking the shape of the drawbar so that it doesn't rest on the trailing truck or lift the tender. The weak link is the motor, so that will get a magnet transplant when I get around to it. > > There was a huge discussion and breakdown of these here a few years ago. > > Nelson > > > > --- In ....... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20100	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs

Vic, Isn't 1.23" just 0.02" less than 1 1/4" -- and not at all near 1 1/8"? Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20101	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs

DARN!  You are right.  I wonder if I was seeing 1.25 and was thinking  1.125.  Lemme see.  I also measured the wider outside width with a ruler as well, and it was 1 3/8" so, I would bet that you are right, the inner part is most likely 1 1/4" not 1 1/8". Thanks for waking me up. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:45:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs   Vic, Isn't 1.23" just 0.02" less than 1 1/4" -- and not at all near 1 1/8"? Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20102	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs

The Northeastern clerestory roof is also pretty tall for a heavyweight era passenger car.  John B. Allyn 3602 Hoods Hill Road Nashville TN 37215 615-298-2873 (H) 615-973-4280 (C) From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 8:34:24 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs   Hi Stephen, I can't tell you if the Northeastern clerestory roof will fit that car, but I will post the dimensions of the roof.  The Northeastern roof is 1.41" or about 1/32" more than 1 3/8" (1 13/32") across the full width.  Across the interior part (rabbetted part) we have 1.23" or right about 1 1/8". Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:39:31 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Rivarossi Clerestory Roofs   All, Friend of mine today gave me some Rivarossi coaches. He hasn't been into model railroading since the 1970s, and even then, it was Lionel O gauge, and more his daughter that was into it. He had some HO scale used for forced perspective on their layout. Also got from him a Rivarossi Big Boy, 0-8-0 steam switcher, some Mantua old time coaches, an AHM Lincoln funeral car, and two Tri-Ang American old style coaches, plus a few Rivarossi Santa Fe heavyweights. Today he found two more Rivarossi heavyweight cars, one coach, the other a combine baggage/coach. The combine car's roof is badly damaged. Fixing to replace it. A Walthers plastic roof I found, one of the NPP made ones, fits in width, and arch over the car end, but is about a 3/8" too short. Does anyone know if Northeastern wood clerestory roofs will fit width-wise? They come in three foot lengths, so that isn't a problem. Just not sure if the width of the Northeastern roofs will match the Rivarossi carbody. Otherwise, I'll splice together two shorter spare Walthers/NPP roofs. Thanks -Steve

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20103	From: Nelson	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

"It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead." That's very true, Mike, as I've seen that happen with Mantua steamers, but the motor is the issue in my Pacific. It doesn't matter whether I power it through the track, or with alligator clips directly to the motor. It runs well enough, but not like it should. It's the same for my Little Monster and a number of early diesel chassis. It's just a HI-Fi motor, and they were weak, with a small magnet and thin pole pieces. The Jet motors with the ring magnets that followed had much more torque, and would have transformed the steamers if Irv had persevered. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > A major boost in performance comes from using an electronic cleaning/conditioner fluid on all electrical conducting surfaces. It makes the surfaces act as if they are gold-plated for many months. > > Not considering the condition of the motor, this simple treatment of something similar to tuner cleaner brings the electrical path to fresh as-new condition. > > I became convinced of this when I gave the treatment to the mostly Zamak electrical path of an Athearn 0-4-2t that had sat on the shelf for almost 25 years. It went from only able to move a quarter turn of the drivers to running very much like it was a new Kato. Standard oil and grease were used in the proper places in modest amounts before I tried the 'stuff' and then saw the model come to a fresh life. > > I swear by this simple method as part of an annual shopping of a model. > > It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20104	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

Hi Nelson, If you REALLY want to keep the Mantua motor for the Pacific and it is in reasonably good shape, meaning not worn out, you may be able to rejuvenate it by replacing the magnet with some neodymium magnets that fill the space.  The better solution would be a nice can motor/wormfly combo from either Yardbird Trains or Helix Humper. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: greenbrier614@... Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:40:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics   "It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead." That's very true, Mike, as I've seen that happen with Mantua steamers, but the motor is the issue in my Pacific. It doesn't matter whether I power it through the track, or with alligator clips directly to the motor. It runs well enough, but not like it should. It's the same for my Little Monster and a number of early diesel chassis. It's just a HI-Fi motor, and they were weak, with a small magnet and thin pole pieces. The Jet motors with the ring magnets that followed had much more torque, and would have transformed the steamers if Irv had persevered. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > A major boost in performance comes from using an electronic cleaning/conditioner fluid on all electrical conducting surfaces. It makes the surfaces act as if they are gold-plated for many months. > > Not considering the condition of the motor, this simple treatment of something similar to tuner cleaner brings the electrical path to fresh as-new condition. > > I became convinced of this when I gave the treatment to the mostly Zamak electrical path of an Athearn 0-4-2t that had sat on the shelf for almost 25 years. It went from only able to move a quarter turn of the drivers to running very much like it was a new Kato. Standard oil and grease were used in the proper places in modest amounts before I tried the 'stuff' and then saw the model come to a fresh life. > > I swear by this simple method as part of an annual shopping of a model. > > It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20105	From: nico	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> wrote: > > On 8/28/2012 1:12 PM, nico wrote: > > Okay, I am an Athearn 1960's Pacific fan! I have gotten in a lot of trouble for being one, but I like these locomotives, over Mantua's "as-old-as-the-hills" design! I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about the mechenics of the plastic driving wheel version (the frames, the general layout, electrical, maybe assembly instructions, just in case...)? I also am interested in buying Athearn 1960's 4-6-2. Any information, and/or locomotives for sale, would be great. Heavenly Father bless, and thank you! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > I got an Athearn Pacific off Ebay. It was in rough shape. The pilot > was broken off, probably from a trip to the floor. > > As it came to me: > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0062.jpg > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0063.jpg > Here is the mechanism with the boiler removed. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0488.jpg > Here is the new pilot built up from brass castings. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0498.jpg > And here it is back together painted and decaled. > http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/Mittersill/100_0876.jpg > > It runs, but very poorly. The tender electrical pickup is flakey, > causing halts and stoppages. After considerable tinkering I retired it > to my display shelf. > > > > > -- > David J > > David J. Starr > > Blog:http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com > David, nice work! I like what you have done with the old girl. I have two, but am always looking for more, to build a signature fleet loco, like the 4-8-2's on the Maumee Route, shown in Model Railroader. I like getting them to work right, it's a fun challange. Again, great work, and I still wish Irv had come through in perfecting them, all they do today are boring USRA Pacifics, instead of the best looking 4-6-2's outside of brass...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20106	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

Hi again Nelson, Sorry, I misread your condition.  I thought you were referring to a Mantua Pacific problem, but you were relating to a weak motor in another loco.  Still the neodymium magnet solution might be good, depending on the configuration of the motor.  There are some curved neodymium magnets available. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:48:53 -0400 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics   Hi Nelson, If you REALLY want to keep the Mantua motor for the Pacific and it is in reasonably good shape, meaning not worn out, you may be able to rejuvenate it by replacing the magnet with some neodymium magnets that fill the space.  The better solution would be a nice can motor/wormfly combo from either Yardbird Trains or Helix Humper. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: greenbrier614@... Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:40:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics   "It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead." That's very true, Mike, as I've seen that happen with Mantua steamers, but the motor is the issue in my Pacific. It doesn't matter whether I power it through the track, or with alligator clips directly to the motor. It runs well enough, but not like it should. It's the same for my Little Monster and a number of early diesel chassis. It's just a HI-Fi motor, and they were weak, with a small magnet and thin pole pieces. The Jet motors with the ring magnets that followed had much more torque, and would have transformed the steamers if Irv had persevered. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > A major boost in performance comes from using an electronic cleaning/conditioner fluid on all electrical conducting surfaces. It makes the surfaces act as if they are gold-plated for many months. > > Not considering the condition of the motor, this simple treatment of something similar to tuner cleaner brings the electrical path to fresh as-new condition. > > I became convinced of this when I gave the treatment to the mostly Zamak electrical path of an Athearn 0-4-2t that had sat on the shelf for almost 25 years. It went from only able to move a quarter turn of the drivers to running very much like it was a new Kato. Standard oil and grease were used in the proper places in modest amounts before I tried the 'stuff' and then saw the model come to a fresh life. > > I swear by this simple method as part of an annual shopping of a model. > > It's possible that what seems to be a weak motor on some models is actually a weak electrical path instead. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20107	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

I wonder what became of the dies to make the three steam locos that Athearn produced in the early 60's?  Or the Hustler dies?  All three were much nicer looking engines than the competition had on the market.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20108	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

In a message dated 8/29/2012 8:53:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mwbauers55@... writes:   A major boost in performance comes from using an electronic cleaning/conditioner fluid on all electrical conducting surfaces. It makes the surfaces act as if they are gold-plated for many months.   Mike, which brand of cleaner/conditioner do you use and where do you get it?  I was thinking of using the conductive grease used in electronics, but have not tried it.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20109	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Newest aquisition

Newest vintage addition to the Milwaukee Northern Roster, a set of three Mantua Sharks from another member of the group. (He offered them here, you guys had your chance <G>) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1283390221/pic/803505627/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc or http://tinyurl.com/8wm95sh All three are powered, and aside from a little gear slippage in one unit, run surprisingly well for their age. The only things I did other than repaint were a good cleaning, new couplers, some PSC air horns, my home-made diaphragms and window glazing. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20110	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

Nice set of Mantua Sharks and a beautiful paint job. Look sharp.                                   Jim H On 8/31/2012 1:33 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   Newest vintage addition to the Milwaukee Northern Roster, a set of three Mantua Sharks from another member of the group. (He offered them here, you guys had your chance <G>) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1283390221/pic/803505627/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc or http://tinyurl.com/8wm95sh All three are powered, and aside from a little gear slippage in one unit, run surprisingly well for their age. The only things I did other than repaint were a good cleaning, new couplers, some PSC air horns, my home-made diaphragms and window glazing. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20111	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

On 8/31/2012 1:27 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:    Nice set of Mantua Sharks and a beautiful paint job. Look sharp.                                   Jim H Thanks Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20112	From: John Hagen	Date: 8/31/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

Dang Don,   Those sure look good.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 12:33 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Newest aquisition     Newest vintage addition to the Milwaukee Northern Roster, a set of three Mantua Sharks from another member of the group. (He offered them here, you guys had your chance <G>) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1283390221/pic/803505627/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc or http://tinyurl.com/8wm95sh All three are powered, and aside from a little gear slippage in one unit, run surprisingly well for their age. The only things I did other than repaint were a good cleaning, new couplers, some PSC air horns, my home-made diaphragms and window glazing. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20113	From: Askerberg	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

They look fabulous, Don. I'd be interested in how you do the glazing. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20114	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

On 9/1/2012 9:20 AM, Askerberg wrote: > They look fabulous, Don. I'd be interested in how you do the glazing. > > Al Askerberg > > I could use the expensive "Micro Krystal Kleer" liquis glazing from Micro-scale, or I could use the slightly less expensive "Artists' acrylic gloss medium" from the art supply store, but in truth I use "ModPodge" from Wal-Mart. (It's actually all the same stuff) On some models I've even used Elmer's glue, but it deteriorates faster due to moisture in the air. Just put some on with a toothpick, swirl around the window opening, and stretch a film across the opening. Dries clear in an hour or two. It works well on any opening up to about 1/4" wide. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20115	From: Joe Donato	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: F/S HO Older Craftsman Kits Silver Streak Ulrich & More

Good afternoon,    I have the following craftsman and older HO train kits and building kits.  I am not certain if all are 100% complete but have made the best of my ability to list what may nor may not be there.  Prices are not set in stone and any reasonable offer will be considered.  Payments are to be made via paypal, check or money order.   Shipping is to be added to all orders and we never inflate the shipping price.  We can ship these worldwide as well.  Please contact me off list to ask questions, see pictures or to order. Jordan Products Highway Miniatures  All are complete and in their original boxes.  Boxes are not mint C213 1925 Ford Roadster or Pickup $8.00 C211 Mac Truck Chasis & Cab  $8.00 C209 Mac Stake Truck  $8.00 360-236 1928 Model A Ford Sedan $5.00 C207 1911 Ford Delivery Car $5.00 R301 Railroad Depot Baggage Wagon $4.00 Roundhouse Pullman Palace Cars P81 Sleeper  Unbuilt (no trucks)  $8.00 P82 Observation Built $8.00 P84 Diner Unbuilt (no trucks) $8.00 Roundhouse B-202 40’ Horizontal Ribbed Box Car Chicago Milwaukee & St. Paul (complete unbuilt all metal)  $12.00 R102 Pacific Fruit Express (complete unbuilt all metal)  $12.00 B-501 40’ Wood Sheated Box Car Kit Union Pacific  (complete unbuilt all metal)  $12.00 Diecast caboose has cupola like a caboose, roof like a passenger car and sides like a baggage car,  has central valley trucks and a wood bottom.  Cupola is painted red rest is unpainted $10.00  (comes in a Kadee Box which is not correct) (2) 1500 Undecorated 26' Old Timer Metal Log Cars Kits ( 3 Kits per box) Complete and Unbuilt $25.00 each 1500 Undecorated 26' Old Timer Metal Log Cars Kits ( 3 Kits per box) Complete and Built $20.00 1506 Part 3-Shanty Town Tank Car, Shorty Flat Car Kit & Telegraph Office Complete and Unbuilt $25.00 1507 MOW Firefighting 3-1 Firefighting Kit Complete and Unbuilt $25.00 (2) 1512 Victoria Square Cable House & Passenger Car Set Complete and Unbuilt $15.00 Ambroid H-14 Outside Braced Reefer Reading (complete unbuilt kit) $12.00 H-21 NYO & W Milk Car (complete unbuilt kit) $25.00 K-13 ACL  Watermelon Car (complete unbuilt kit)  $35.00 #3 Outside Braced Caboose (complete unbuilt kit) $12.00 H-16 PRR X-23 Box Car (complete unbuilt kit) $12.00 K-13 Livesay Poultry Car (complete unbuilt kit) $25.00 K-2 Stock Car Southern (partially built) $12.00 Mainline Models XR-2 50’ Express Reefer Pacific Fruit Express (complete unbuilt kit) $12.00 Kadee Lines 42’ Skeleton Log Car (no trucks unbuilt)  $10.00 42’ Skeleton Log Car (missing 1 truck unbuilt)  $12.00 Disconnected Log Car Complete Unbuilt All Paperwork nice box $20.00 Disconnected Log Car Complete Unbuilt All Paperwork box is rough $17.00 Disconnected Log Car Complete Built box is rough $12.00 Silver Streak 302 D&RGW Auto Car (complete kit and unbuilt)  $10.00 S503-325 Southern Pacific Gondola (complete kit and unbuilt)  $10.00 S120-475 Erie Truss Rod Caboose (complete kit and unbuilt)  $15.00 S112-350 B&O Caboose (complete kit and unbuilt)  $10.00 Timberline Models D&RGW Depot DD-103 unbuilt $10.00 Westwood Limited Run Canadian Pacific Dome Observation Partially Built $10.00 Suncoast Models HO Scale Logging Camp (new and unbuilt) $30.00 Alexander Scale Models Little Hook (new and unbuilt) $15.00 Alexander Scale Models Coaling Station (new and unbuilt) $25.00 Laconia HO Sierra R.R. Combine Kit (built and appears complete) $25.00 Central Valley Tomopah & Tidewater Box Car (built and appears complete) $10.00 Artic Oil Works Box Car (partially built and appears complete) $10.00 Chicago Lakeshore Box Car (partially built and appears complete) $10.00 Ulrich TR6-235 Old Flat Car Kit SSW (unbuilt and complete) $7.00 SC3-275 CNW Stock Car (built no trucks) $3.00 T180 Track Cleaning Car w/ Trucks (partially built) $9.00 111 Stock Car Kit (complete and unbuilt) $10.00 108 L&A Box Car Kit Truss (complete and unbuilt) $10.00 108 M&STL Box Car Kit Truss (complete and unbuilt) $10.00 Offset B&O Hopper Kit (complete and unbuilt no box) $7.00 Offset Standard Hopper Kit (complete and unbuilt no box) $7.00 Happy Railroading!!! Joe Donato & Missy Soltis TCA Member #12-66954 PCA Member #12-748 Always buying/selling/trade new and old trains and related items in all scales!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20116	From: Nelson	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Athearn 1960's Pacifics

Vic, Yeah, it's the original motor in the Athearn Pacific. It runs well because I've tuned it up, but I'd like it to be more consistent. They just crammed Hi-Fi motors in those things, and the screw that holds it together doesn't allow for a larger magnet replacement. A neodymium stack of the same dimensions is still going to be an improvement, but I'd like to get two rows of them on there. I may just leave the screw out and glue it together. It's the '62 version without a gearbox, so motor replacement would be a pain. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi again Nelson,Sorry, I misread your condition. I thought you were referring to a Mantua Pacific problem, but you were relating to a weak motor in another loco. Still the neodymium magnet solution might be good, depending on the configuration of the motor. There are some curved neodymium magnets available.Good luck and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20117	From: Nelson	Date: 9/1/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

That's a sharp looking set of Sharks. Are they strong pullers? Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20118	From: Askerberg	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: Re: New acquisition

> >On 9/1/2012 9:20 AM, Askerberg wrote: > > They look fabulous, Don. I'd be interested in how you do the glazing. > > > > Al Askerberg > > > > >I could use the expensive "Micro Krystal Kleer" liquis glazing from >Micro-scale, or I could use the slightly less expensive "Artists' >acrylic gloss medium" from the art supply store, but in truth I use >"ModPodge" from Wal-Mart. (It's actually all the same stuff) > >On some models I've even used Elmer's glue, but it deteriorates faster >due to moisture in the air. > >Just put some on with a toothpick, swirl around the window opening, and >stretch a film across the opening. Dries clear in an hour or two. It >works well on any opening up to about 1/4" wide. > >Don > >- Gosh, I have all of the above and never tried them. I will now. Thanks, Don. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20119	From: Matt Martin	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: WTB: Athearn 40' Chessie Hopper 6 packs

Hi all--I am looking for Athearn RTR Chessie/B&O 40' Hopper 6 packs. These were released in 2007. I prefer NIB cars. The part numbers for these are ATH95608 & 95609 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH95608 Thank you! Matt Martin Tempe, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20120	From: Matt Martin	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: WTB: Lionel HO M-StL Snowplow/Husky Switcher

Hi all--I am looking for a Lionel HO M-StL Snowplow/Husky Switcher that Lionel produced in HO-Scale a number of years ago. Here is a photo of one: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/405856_10151019124641835_1404614961_n.jpg Thanks! Matt Martin Tempe, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20121	From: Peter Nyce	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: Re: WTB: Athearn 40' Chessie Hopper 6 packs

Hi Matt, Check this out on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-ATHEARN-BEV-BEL-BALTIMORE-OHIO-2-BAY-HOPPERS-3-OF-A-KIND-KITS-948-/320974444329?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4abb915729 It's as close as I could find to what you are searching for. Pete At 07:02 PM 9/2/2012, you wrote:   Hi all--I am looking for Athearn RTR Chessie/B&O 40' Hopper 6 packs. These were released in 2007. I prefer NIB cars. The part numbers for these are ATH95608 & 95609 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH95608 Thank you! Matt Martin Tempe, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20122	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/2/2012
Subject: Re: Newest aquisition

On 9/1/2012 6:56 PM, Nelson wrote: > That's a sharp looking set of Sharks. Are they strong pullers? > > Nelson > > > > Reasonably, they're heavy enough. I just have a relatively small layout (a 20 train is LONG). TI don;t really have room to see if they'll handle more than that. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20123	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: A scam.... ???

Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20124	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Boy Mike,   Unless this is something you really need (ok, ok I know nothing is really “needed” for a hobby……..) I think I’d report him immediately and hold any payment until you hear something from eBay. I know we all give out our credit card information to a lot of people online but as long as we stick to well know entities we are probably safe. But giving it to someone totally unknown and who is probably murdering the English language purposefully to make you think he is just some poor, backwoods guy is likely tempting fate a little too much.   Just my opinion.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ???     Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20125	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Mike, Have you contacted PayPal itself for clarification? I would not supply my CC information. Good luck, Walter On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20126	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

On 9/4/2012 4:27 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > Here's another questionable one for you. > > I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. > > I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. > > So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. > > Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. > > Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. > > Are your alarm bells ringing??? > > He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. > > I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... > > I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. > > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > Don't wait, report him NOW. The ONLY way he can accept a credit card directly is if he's an honest legitimate business. He obviously is NOT. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20127	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Hi Mike,   I just used my paypal account to purchase from a another site I usually do business with, and had no problems, so I can say that paypal probably isn't the problem, I'm for giving all newcomers a chance to do good, but it sounds like this guy is already making a problem for himself!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 5:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ???   Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20128	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Thank you folks for your comments. Be assured I would not think of blindly sending access to my credit card. I just had a nice talk with eBay over this and the sale is now canceled with no ill effects to me. I want to let you know that instead of a credit card I use a Debit Card that is -not- tied to my main account. It's fully confirmed with PayPal and being a blind second account I transfer funds into it to cover expected use. Another feature of a Debit card is that most have a daily and/or a limited transaction size limit. Thus if it gets hacked, only the present limited funds in it are at risk. I also have motivation to not make sizable purchases through it. I do like having it as a completely separate account. I recommend this practice. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: Mike, Have you contacted PayPal itself for clarification? I would not supply my CC information. Good luck, Walter On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20129	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Oh I agree...... No funds have been sent, my alarm bells were sounding very loudly. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2012, at 4:53 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: Boy Mike,   Unless this is something you really need (ok, ok I know nothing is really “needed” for a hobby……..) I think I’d report him immediately and hold any payment until you hear something from eBay. I know we all give out our credit card information to a lot of people online but as long as we stick to well know entities we are probably safe. But giving it to someone totally unknown and who is probably murdering the English language purposefully to make you think he is just some poor, backwoods guy is likely tempting fate a little too much.   Just my opinion.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ???     Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20130	From: Charles	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

This is almost certainly a scam. How do I know, you wonder. Some years back I bought a Time Magazine on ebay for about 12 dollars and got the the problem that when paying by PayPal it wouldn't go through. The seller said he was having some problem and to just send a check (this was back when that was also done a lot). They had some good feedback, but that is easy to generate with phony sales amongst cohorts in crime. Not thinking much about it, I sent the check and then never heard anything again. The address was probably a drop box outfit. I had so many thing going on at the time, that I complete forgot I was expecting it. Eventually I noticed, and the seller no longer existed. About a year later, I saw the identical photo and ebay listing, with the exact same title (I keep a record of these the purchases) which had included some odd capitalization. The seller name was different, but very similar to what had been used before. I reported this to ebay with the whole background. The sellerss listings shortly disappeared but ebay wouldn't tell me anything conclusive about it. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Oh I agree...... > > No funds have been sent, my alarm bells were sounding very loudly. > > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 4, 2012, at 4:53 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Boy Mike, > > > > Unless this is something you really need (ok, ok I know nothing is really “needed” for a hobby……..) I think I’d report him immediately and hold any payment until you hear something from eBay. I know we all give out our credit card information to a lot of people online but as long as we stick to well know entities we are probably safe. But giving it to someone totally unknown and who is probably murdering the English language purposefully to make you think he is just some poor, backwoods guy is likely tempting fate a little too much. > > > > Just my opinion. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:27 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ??? > > > > > > Here's another questionable one for you. > > > > I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. > > > > I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. > > > > So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. > > > > Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. > > > > Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. > > > > Are your alarm bells ringing??? > > > > He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. > > > > I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... > > > > I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. > > > > Mike Bauers > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

I noticed that I got emails through eBay using one name and emails away from eBay with a very different name. Odd that the fellow should think I wouldn't notice. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2012, at 9:43 PM, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > This is almost certainly a scam. > > How do I know, you wonder. > > Some years back I bought a Time Magazine on ebay for about 12 dollars and got the the problem that when paying by PayPal it wouldn't go through. The seller said he was having some problem and to just send a check (this was back when that was also done a lot). > > They had some good feedback, but that is easy to generate with phony sales amongst cohorts in crime. > > Not thinking much about it, I sent the check and then never heard anything again. The address was probably a drop box outfit. I had so many thing going on at the time, that I complete forgot I was expecting it. Eventually I noticed, and the seller no longer existed. > > About a year later, I saw the identical photo and ebay listing, with the exact same title (I keep a record of these the purchases) which had included some odd capitalization. The seller name was different, but very similar to what had been used before. > > I reported this to ebay with the whole background. The sellerss listings shortly disappeared but ebay wouldn't tell me anything conclusive about it. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> Oh I agree...... >> >> No funds have been sent, my alarm bells were sounding very loudly. >> >> >> Mike Bauers >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2012, at 4:53 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Boy Mike, >>> >>> Unless this is something you really need (ok, ok I know nothing is really “needed” for a hobby……..) I think I’d report him immediately and hold any payment until you hear something from eBay. I know we all give out our credit card information to a lot of people online but as long as we stick to well know entities we are probably safe. But giving it to someone totally unknown and who is probably murdering the English language purposefully to make you think he is just some poor, backwoods guy is likely tempting fate a little too much. >>> >>> Just my opinion. >>> >>> John Hagen >>> >>> From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:27 PM >>> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ??? >>> >>> >>> Here's another questionable one for you. >>> >>> I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. >>> >>> I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. >>> >>> So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. >>> >>> Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. >>> >>> Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. >>> >>> Are your alarm bells ringing??? >>> >>> He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. >>> >>> I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... >>> >>> I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. >>> >>> Mike Bauers >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20132	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Mike, I would not give my credit card numbers out to anyone unknown to you -- even if he happened to be honorable -- which you have no way of knowning. Even if he had 500 sales with 100% positive feedback, that doesn't preclude someone from trying to get some "free" money if they think they have the chance; it's too risky and tempting. I would report this problem to eBay, and first see if there's some way this "Error 157" problem you're receiving can be resolved or fixed through them -- unless this guy's credit card is no longer any good (expired or overdrawn, etc.), in which case eBay's PayPal should be able to find this out to cover your end. I say "cover" your end, as this Seller can put in an "Unpaid Item" claim against you after the time he stated in his terms to pay for an item expires, if you aggrevate him enough to do so -- especially if eBay can't confirm your claim with them that you're unable to pay. So don't confront this Seller with any animosity; don't stir him up. You can try to get it resolved directly with him, but don't pursue it antagonistically. An unresolved "Unpaid Item" claim can mean that Ebay can ban you from buying or selling any longer. You may even want to talk directly to someone at eBay, if they still receive phone calls. Their phone numbers are; 1-866 - 643-3720, and 1-800-717-3229 last time I talked to them (I don't remember which one is newest or whether they both work). The number I have for PayPal is; 1-888-445-5046.. Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20133	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Mike, I didn't see your later email until now. Glad to see that eBay canceled the sale for you with no adverse effects. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20134	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Guys, I agree about not giving your CC info to anyone.  When I set up my Pay Pal account I got a completely separate DEBIT card from a bank which I linked to my Pay Pal account.  I also use it for any over the Internet transactions.  If it becomes compromised I can always cancel it with little damage to me because I keep little money in that account.    If the seller is new, Pay Pal may have locked his account if he had insufficient funds to cover his monthly fees and they they were not able to collect the monthly fees from his linked financial institution.   Ebay uses an automated monthly billing system that some banks, the one I use included, will bounce unless the card owner approves the transaction.  It took me about a month to get the issue resolved but I have not had another problem for years now. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > > Hi Mike, >   > I just used my paypal account to purchase from a another site I usually do business with, and had no problems, so I can say that paypal probably isn't the problem, I'm for giving all newcomers a chance to do good, but it sounds like this guy is already making a problem for himself! >   > Gary W >   >   > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 5:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ??? > > > >   > > Here's another questionable one for you. > > I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. > > I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. > > So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. > > Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. > > Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. > > Are your alarm bells ringing??? > > He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. > > I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... > > I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20135	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

NEVER give out cc info. unless absolutely sure of who will see it.Identity theft is not a joke ,my parents got hit for $80,000  Alan From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ???   Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20136	From: tom leen	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Hi Mike, Do not under any circumstances give this guy your credit card number.  I think it's a scam, and probably should be reported to e-bay.  See if you can check with paypal to see if his account has been blocked or something.  Best with it. Tom --- On Tue, 9/4/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: [vintageHO] A scam.... ??? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 9:27 PM   Here's another questionable one for you. I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. Are your alarm bells ringing??? He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20137	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: A scam.... ???

Don,   Not true anymore. I have Square for my android phone. I can swipe or manually enter credit card numbers. Money goes into my account. Square takes 2.75% of swiped cards and a bit more for manually entered cards. Now anybody can take cards.   (I run a gift shop for the Phillipsburg Railroad Historians, so I'm not scamming anyone. It's legit.)   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] A scam.... ???   On 9/4/2012 4:27 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > Here's another questionable one for you. > > I just won a nice model on eBay and repeatedly ran into problems through PayPal paying the guy. > > I'm getting an error 157 about how the sellers account is unable to accept payment. > > So I email him asking him to fix his account and he tells me he is off to his bank to use his credit card on it. > > Then I look at his feedback and I see some complaint about getting junk. I see as well he's only done sales for a couple of weeks and PayPal worked fine a few days ago as best I can guess from the favorable feedbacks. He only has about eight sales. > > Now he is asking me to directly use my credit card with him. > > Are your alarm bells ringing??? > > He has the worst written English I've seen in many years. > > I last sent him a reply asking how I can use the credit card through him. I wonder what his reply will be..... > > I think I will eventually be reporting the fellow and sending his emails to eBays scam people. > > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > Don't wait, report him NOW. The ONLY way he can accept a credit card directly is if he's an honest legitimate business. He obviously is NOT. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20138	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

I have a question. Since HO model Milwaukee Road 4-6-4 F7's are so hard to find and frequently high priced...... Would a Mantua based F7 Baltic look right with the Mantua drivers? Are they close enough in size? I'd love to develop a kit to shroud the Mantua into Hiawatha F7's, even if only to have several of them for myself. The Mantua's always ran okay, with replacement can motors they ran quite well, and the latest DCC ready versions seem to be great runners. But aren't the drivers a bit smaller than the scale Baltic F7's would be? I'll try to 'Photoshop' one to scale over the next few days and see how close it gets. ( I'm hopeful I can design to assemble over the stock Mantua boiler to retain its solid metal weight ) Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20139	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Hiawatha Skytops

I recently went after a large bundle of used HO passenger cars when I noticed there seemed to be a hand-built Skytop with them. It was, and it was well built as well. I wanted it to use as an instructional pattern for making more from flat material, extending the design to making the longer glass version Skytop as well. There are about three proposed Hiawatha cars showing in three Hiawatha books that I'd like to build. One of those is a mid-train lounge car with observation windows in the roof. I think I'll be able to build those cars with careful observations of the Walthers cars and this rather well executed DIY Skytop. I'll make some good shots of the DIY next evening and let you see this car. Did folks notice the 1930's proposal model of a Hiawatha shrouded 4-4-4 that was in one of the more recent books? There's a stable model mechanism to run at high speeds...... Sure are enough Mantua Pacific parts around to use for building those. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20140	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

The Mantua has 80 inch drivers. I don’t know what the Baltic’s had.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:20 PM To: MILWmodelers@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics     I have a question. Since HO model Milwaukee Road 4-6-4 F7's are so hard to find and frequently high priced...... Would a Mantua based F7 Baltic look right with the Mantua drivers? Are they close enough in size? I'd love to develop a kit to shroud the Mantua into Hiawatha F7's, even if only to have several of them for myself. The Mantua's always ran okay, with replacement can motors they ran quite well, and the latest DCC ready versions seem to be great runners. But aren't the drivers a bit smaller than the scale Baltic F7's would be? I'll try to 'Photoshop' one to scale over the next few days and see how close it gets. ( I'm hopeful I can design to assemble over the stock Mantua boiler to retain its solid metal weight ) Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20141	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. -----Original Message----- From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 10:20 am Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics The Mantua has 80 inch drivers. I don’t know what the Baltic’s had.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:20 PM To: MILWmodelers@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics     I have a question. Since HO model Milwaukee Road 4-6-4 F7's are so hard to find and frequently high priced...... Would a Mantua based F7 Baltic look right with the Mantua drivers? Are they close enough in size? I'd love to develop a kit to shroud the Mantua into Hiawatha F7's, even if only to have several of them for myself. The Mantua's always ran okay, with replacement can motors they ran quite well, and the latest DCC ready versions seem to be great runners. But aren't the drivers a bit smaller than the scale Baltic F7's would be? I'll try to 'Photoshop' one to scale over the next few days and see how close it gets. ( I'm hopeful I can design to assemble over the stock Mantua boiler to retain its solid metal weight ) Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20142	From: Mike	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

Perhaps with the slightly oversized HO flanges to true scale wheels, the mantua drivers will appear to be very close? I see increased odds now that the look will be OK. Mike Bauers, on his phone, at lunch.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 10:20 am > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > > > The Mantua has 80 inch drivers. I don’t know what the Baltic’s had. > > John Hagen > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:20 PM > To: MILWmodelers@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > > > I have a question. > > Since HO model Milwaukee Road 4-6-4 F7's are so hard to find and frequently high priced...... > > Would a Mantua based F7 Baltic look right with the Mantua drivers? > > Are they close enough in size? > > I'd love to develop a kit to shroud the Mantua into Hiawatha F7's, even if only to have several of them for myself. > > The Mantua's always ran okay, with replacement can motors they ran quite well, and the latest DCC ready versions seem to be great runners. > > But aren't the drivers a bit smaller than the scale Baltic F7's would be? > > I'll try to 'Photoshop' one to scale over the next few days and see how close it gets. > > ( I'm hopeful I can design to assemble over the stock Mantua boiler to retain its solid metal weight ) > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20143	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

Mike-   You can always replace the 80" drivers with 84" if and when some turn up.  Until then, enjoy your Mantua F-7 Baltic - it'll be a fun engine even if the drivers are slightly undersized. -----Original Message----- From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 11:43 am Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics Perhaps with the slightly oversized HO flanges to true scale wheels, the mantua drivers will appear to be very close? I see increased odds now that the look will be OK. Mike Bauers, on his phone, at lunch.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 10:20 am > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > > > The Mantua has 80 inch drivers. I don’t know what the Baltic’s had. > > John Hagen > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:20 PM > To: MILWmodelers@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > > > I have a question. > > Since HO model Milwaukee Road 4-6-4 F7's are so hard to find and frequently high priced...... > > Would a Mantua based F7 Baltic look right with the Mantua drivers? > > Are they close enough in size? > > I'd love to develop a kit to shroud the Mantua into Hiawatha F7's, even if only to have several of them for myself. > > The Mantua's always ran okay, with replacement can motors they ran quite well, and the latest DCC ready versions seem to be great runners. > > But aren't the drivers a bit smaller than the scale Baltic F7's would be? > > I'll try to 'Photoshop' one to scale over the next few days and see how close it gets. > > ( I'm hopeful I can design to assemble over the stock Mantua boiler to retain its solid metal weight ) > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20144	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

Mike and Rich, Be careful of trying to replace the 80 inch drivers with 84s. I ran into a problem when building a MoPac 4-8-2 from an Akane USRA light Mountain. The Akane had 69" drivers and I replaced them with 70 1/2" to get the Baldwin discs. I thought 1 1/2 inches will be no problem. Well, the tips of the flanges touched and would "snick" back and forth on curves making the loco unstable. My only resort was to turn down the flanges on the two center driver pairs. They are not blind, but half-blind. I have discovered the hard way when you start mixing parts from different manufacturers some strange things can happen. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Mike- > > You can always replace the 80" drivers with 84" if and when some turn up. Until then, enjoy your Mantua F-7 Baltic - it'll be a fun engine even if the drivers are slightly undersized. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 11:43 am > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > Perhaps with the slightly oversized HO flanges to true scale wheels, the mantua > rivers will appear to be very close? > I see increased odds now that the look will be OK. > Mike Bauers, on his phone, at lunch.... > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@> wrote: > > The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20145	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/7/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

Bill and Mike-   You are quite right in what you point out.  The Mantua frame is designed for 80" drivers.  84" will not fit.  However, the Penn Line/Bowser K4 frame has a greater axle spacing (so they could use all flanged drivers). I haven't one here as I write, but 84" may still not fit in a PL frame. So if one wishes a very accurate F7 Baltic with full 84" drivers, one may have to make a frame for it. I should have thought of this in my previous posting.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: CinderCrusher <defoe242@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 6:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics Mike and Rich, Be careful of trying to replace the 80 inch drivers with 84s. I ran into a problem when building a MoPac 4-8-2 from an Akane USRA light Mountain. The Akane had 69" drivers and I replaced them with 70 1/2" to get the Baldwin discs. I thought 1 1/2 inches will be no problem. Well, the tips of the flanges touched and would "snick" back and forth on curves making the loco unstable. My only resort was to turn down the flanges on the two center driver pairs. They are not blind, but half-blind. I have discovered the hard way when you start mixing parts from different manufacturers some strange things can happen. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Mike- > > You can always replace the 80" drivers with 84" if and when some turn up. Until then, enjoy your Mantua F-7 Baltic - it'll be a fun engine even if the drivers are slightly undersized. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 11:43 am > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > Perhaps with the slightly oversized HO flanges to true scale wheels, the mantua > rivers will appear to be very close? > I see increased odds now that the look will be OK. > Mike Bauers, on his phone, at lunch.... > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@> wrote: > > The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20146	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/7/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

Richard,   The Mantua Pacific was designed for 80” drivers and chances are 84” drivers will not fit as you stated. However, it is quite possible to put all flanged 80 “ drivers in one using newer, RP-25 flange drivers as the axle spacing hasn’t changed since the Pacific was first introduced back on the day of much deeper flanges. If I recall correctly I did that with a Mantua Mikado sometime back.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:06 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics     Bill and Mike-   You are quite right in what you point out.  The Mantua frame is designed for 80" drivers.  84" will not fit.  However, the Penn Line/Bowser K4 frame has a greater axle spacing (so they could use all flanged drivers). I haven't one here as I write, but 84" may still not fit in a PL frame. So if one wishes a very accurate F7 Baltic with full 84" drivers, one may have to make a frame for it. I should have thought of this in my previous posting.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: CinderCrusher <defoe242@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 6:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics Mike and Rich,   Be careful of trying to replace the 80 inch drivers with 84s.   I ran into a problem when building a MoPac 4-8-2 from an Akane USRA light Mountain.  The Akane had 69" drivers and I replaced them with 70 1/2" to get the Baldwin discs.  I thought 1 1/2 inches will be no problem.  Well, the tips of the flanges touched and would "snick" back and forth on curves making the loco unstable.  My only resort was to turn down the flanges on the two center driver pairs.  They are not blind, but half-blind.   I have discovered the hard way when you start mixing parts from different manufacturers some strange things can happen.   Bill DeFoe       --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: >   > > Mike- > > You can always replace the 80" drivers with 84" if and when some turn up.  Until then, enjoy your Mantua F-7 Baltic - it'll be a fun engine even if the drivers are slightly undersized. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 11:43 am > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > Perhaps with the slightly oversized HO flanges to true scale wheels, the mantua > rivers will appear to be very close? > I see increased odds now that the look will be OK. > Mike Bauers, on his phone, at lunch.... > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@> wrote: > >  The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. >  >  >          ------------------------------------   Yahoo! Groups Links   <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/   <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional   <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required)   <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com   <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20147	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 9/8/2012
Subject: Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics

John-   You are on target.  I am planning a Pennsy K4 project using the Mantua Pacific frame rather than the Penn Line / Bowser frame because it has more accurate spacing for the driver axles.  I've had to turn down the flanges on the main drivers, but then the real K4 had blind mains for many years. Richard -----Original Message----- From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2012 8:09 pm Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics Richard,   The Mantua Pacific was designed for 80” drivers and chances are 84” drivers will not fit as you stated. However, it is quite possible to put all flanged 80 “ drivers in one using newer, RP-25 flange drivers as the axle spacing hasn’t changed since the Pacific was first introduced back on the day of much deeper flanges. If I recall correctly I did that with a Mantua Mikado sometime back.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dipping Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:06 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics     Bill and Mike-   You are quite right in what you point out.  The Mantua frame is designed for 80" drivers.  84" will not fit.  However, the Penn Line/Bowser K4 frame has a greater axle spacing (so they could use all flanged drivers). I haven't one here as I write, but 84" may still not fit in a PL frame. So if one wishes a very accurate F7 Baltic with full 84" drivers, one may have to make a frame for it. I should have thought of this in my previous posting.   Richard -----Original Message----- From: CinderCrusher <defoe242@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 6:50 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics Mike and Rich,   Be careful of trying to replace the 80 inch drivers with 84s.   I ran into a problem when building a MoPac 4-8-2 from an Akane USRA light Mountain.  The Akane had 69" drivers and I replaced them with 70 1/2" to get the Baldwin discs.  I thought 1 1/2 inches will be no problem.  Well, the tips of the flanges touched and would "snick" back and forth on curves making the loco unstable.  My only resort was to turn down the flanges on the two center driver pairs.& nbsp; They are not blind, but half-blind.   I have discovered the hard way when you start mixing parts from different manufacturers some strange things can happen.   Bill DeFoe       --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: >  > > Mike- > > You can always replace the 80" drivers with 84" if and when some turn up.  Until then, enjoy your Mantua F-7 Baltic - it'll be a fun engine even if the drivers are slightly undersized. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike <mwbauers55@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 11:43 am > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hiawatha F7 Baltics > > > > Perhaps with the slightly oversized HO flanges to true scale wheels, the mantua > rivers will appear to be very close? > I see increased odds now that the look will be OK. > Mike Bauers, on his phone, at lunch.... > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@> wrote: > >  The Baltic had 84" drive wheels. >  >  >          ------------------------------------   Yahoo! Groups Links   <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/   <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional   <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required)   <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com   <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20148	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: What are these?

Attachments : IMG_8480_1.JPG Bought a box of detail parts. Some small. I should have put a penny in the picture so you could see a relationship in size. These are really small. My guess is that they are the bottom part of the early Mantua stanchions that you added the small cotter pin to and bent it over to make the whole stanchion to take the handrail wire. Am I right ? Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20149	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: What are these? [1 Attachment]

Valve gear rivets?  That penny would be helpful! John B. Allyn From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:56:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] What are these? [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Bought a box of detail parts. Some small. I should have put a penny in the picture so you could see a relationship in size. These are really small. My guess is that they are the bottom part of the early Mantua stanchions that you added the small cotter pin to and bent it over to make the whole stanchion to take the handrail wire. Am I right ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20150	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: What are these? [1 Attachment]

Well,   On the Eight Ball instructions in hoseeker I did find #X366-e listed as an “eyelet for handrail spacer.” In fig C they are described as “short flanged eyelets” and in the fig. G they are illustrated. And that is sure what they look like.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:57 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] What are these? [1 Attachment]     [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Bought a box of detail parts. Some small. I should have put a penny in the picture so you could see a relationship in size. These are really small. My guess is that they are the bottom part of the early Mantua stanchions that you added the small cotter pin to and bent it over to make the whole stanchion to take the handrail wire. Am I right ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20151	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: What are these ?

According to Dan Bush / Yardbird Classic Trains they are the early Mantua stanchion rings. Dan sells Mantua parts and is Model Power's rep for Mantua parts. Thanks for all the replies. Identity solved. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20152	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Very early Model Railroader magazines

I have two very nice hard cover books in which copies of Model Railroader have been professionally bound. The spines are stamped Model Railroader 1940 and Model Railroader 1941 Contents are: June 1939 through December, 1940 January, 1941 through December 1941. These are in very nice condition and a true treasure. $25 ea plus shipping at actual cost Thanks Al Galli

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20153	From: Glenn	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: What are these? [1 Attachment]

several uses: bottom part of handrail stanchions, used with cotter pin. Similarly used as trolley wire hangers. also used as rivets to pivot switchpoint spreader bar with throw bar. gj -----Original Message----- From: Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:56 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] What are these? [1 Attachment] Bought a box of detail parts. Some small. I should have put a penny in the picture so you could see a relationship in size. These are really small. My guess is that they are the bottom part of the early Mantua stanchions that you added the small cotter pin to and bent it over to make the whole stanchion to take the handrail wire. Am I right ? Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20154	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Moving Forward

Attachments : IMG_8490.JPG I got the body/cab painted for my Mountain. When it dries I have two very small areas that have to be smooth sanded and repainted. Minor problem when paint dries a little. I did the pilot with cut lever and working front coupler. As soon as the main set of drivers comes in to replace my broken set, which are on the way, I can replace them and assemble everything. If nothing goes wrong it won't take long if I find the time between doctors & appointments. Now to find some decals in my box. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20155	From: Douglas	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Indianapolis Car Company

I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? Thanks, Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20156	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Penn Line Crusader

On 9/13/2012 11:25 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > A little bird told me that the first Crusader that > was on eBay for $2500 was sold for $2000. No I didn't buy it. Never > thought it would go that high. It raised the bar. There is a second > Crusader on now that needs some work and parts. This seller is basing > his price on what the first seller was asking if you read his > description. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20157	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Douglas , In answer to you question as well as some additional information on these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site.  You can see a few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20158	From: Glenn	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

I had a couple of those kits many long years ago--I think they were vacuum-formed in acetate plastic. Ambroid cement if I rercall--acetone to try welded joints. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:55 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Indianapolis Car Company I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? Thanks, Doug McKercher ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20159	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

On 9/13/2012 2:22 PM, Glenn wrote: > I had a couple of those kits many long years ago--I think they were > vacuum-formed in acetate plastic. Ambroid cement if I rercall--acetone to > try welded joints. > Glenn Joesten > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:55 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Indianapolis Car Company > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look like > styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to identify > some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher > Remember the days of the Testor's plastic cement in the tubes, you had to specify if you wanted "Type S" (for styrene) or "Type A"" (for acetate). Wonder if they even make that anymore? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20160	From: douglas.mckercher@rocketmail.com	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Douglas, > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > wrote: > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > Thanks, > > Doug McKercher > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20161	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Doug, Glad that I could be of some assistance.  How do the sides I showed in the Blog compare to the ones you have?  Like I said in the Blog, I have been aware of three different lengths.  Some years ago a friend of mine had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench one night during an operation session.  He also vaguely recalls them but does not know what happened to them.  He did recall that someone was selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. When you get going on your projects please post some pictures.  O ne other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois .  Be careful if you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do serious damage to them.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "douglas.mckercher@..." <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > Doug McKercher > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20162	From: Douglas	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Hi Denny, I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box — model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban ends: 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach 5⅞" built only, no box, motorized 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, but the box lid was silent on the subject. And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. Regards, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Doug, > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed in > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I have > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of mine > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls them but > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone was > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be careful if > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do > serious damage to them. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "douglas.mckercher@" > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They > look > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying > to > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20163	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Are these car sides made out of the same odd plastic that the post-copper sides Central Lines car kits were?  John B. Allyn From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:34:39 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company   Hi Denny, I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box — model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban ends: 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach 5&#8542;" built only, no box, motorized 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, but the box lid was silent on the subject. …And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. Regards, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Doug, > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed in > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I have > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of mine > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls them but > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone was > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be careful if > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do > serious damage to them. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "douglas.mckercher@" > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They > look > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying > to > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20164	From: Douglas	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Hi John, I'm not familiar with the Central Lines kits. It's a yellow plastic like styrene in its physical qualities, but appears to be more sensitive to heat distortion, from motors for instance. I think it was molded in steel dies rather than in a vacuum mold. The thickness is to great for vacuum molding, I believe, and the sides are dead flat on the back rather than arched as I would expect from a vacuum mould. I have a suspicion that the Ken Kidder double-truck Birneys may be made of the same substance. I have acquired some Ambroid glue at my local hobby shop. I am wondeering if this is what used to be called "airplane cement" (ie, for assembling balsa models). Wish me luck! By the way, my fractions appear not to have translated to HTML. The side lengths copied below were intended to be: 5 1/4" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach 5 7/8" built only, no box, motorized 7 1/2" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Are these car sides made out of the same odd plastic that the post-copper sides Central Lines car kits were?  > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:34:39 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company > >   > > > > > Hi Denny, > > I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box â€" model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban ends: > > 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach > > 5⅞" built only, no box, motorized > > 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, but the box lid was silent on the subject. > > …And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. > > Regards, > Doug McKercher > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > > > Doug, > > > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed in > > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I have > > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of mine > > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench > > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls them but > > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone was > > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be careful if > > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do > > serious damage to them. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "douglas.mckercher@" > > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing > > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They > > look > > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying > > to > > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20165	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Doug, Don't spend too much time looking for a prototype.  At the time these were made most small cottage industries were going more for a generic type of car.  If you look closely at the sides you can see that these cars were modular in nature. You can see the splices in the letter board and follow them down the sides. The windows look like something from a Pullman car.  By the way Doug, take a good look at the cross section of the roofs.  Most were not even on both side of the clerestory, raised, section.  If you decide to use them you will have to mill the bottoms of the roofs to clear the ends as they did not provide a recess to accommodate the ends which are the same height as the sides.  Try and fit it together and you will see what I am trying to explain.   So based on what you said in another post you do have one of those shorter cars I remember seeing.  VERY Interesting!!  I am an avid user of Ambroid ( got 8 tubes in my tool box right now) but I doubt it will work on those cars since they are nonporous.  Ambroid does not work well on plastics.  I would consider the Acetone they suggest or some sort of medium thickness ACC and make sure to keep pressure on the joint while the glue dries.   John, I am not a chemist so I cannot tell you about the exact composition of plastic however by observation the plastic materials seem quite different.  The Central Lines car sides are much stiffer and of course they are grey.  I have also had some that were warped upward meaning that the center of the side was higher at the letter board than the ends were. These yellow sides are VERY flexible. They can be bent, torqued and twisted.  Besides the roof and floor, they require at least one stiffener about mid car to keep the sides from bowing inward.  However, like the Central Lines cars I believe these were very well detailed for their time and like I said in my Blog considering the fineness of detail found in other models at the time I believe these were ahead of their time. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > Hi John, > > I'm not familiar with the Central Lines kits. It's a yellow plastic like styrene in its physical qualities, but appears to be more sensitive to heat distortion, from motors for instance. > > I think it was molded in steel dies rather than in a vacuum mold. The thickness is to great for vacuum molding, I believe, and the sides are dead flat on the back rather than arched as I would expect from a vacuum mould. > > I have a suspicion that the Ken Kidder double-truck Birneys may be made of the same substance. > > I have acquired some Ambroid glue at my local hobby shop. I am wondeering if this is what used to be called "airplane cement" (ie, for assembling balsa models). Wish me luck! > > By the way, my fractions appear not to have translated to HTML. The side lengths copied below were intended to be: > > 5 1/4" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach > > 5 7/8" built only, no box, motorized > > 7 1/2" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > Doug McKercher > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@ wrote: > > > > Are these car sides made out of the same odd plastic that the post-copper sides Central Lines car kits were?  > > > > > > John B. Allyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Douglas" douglas.mckercher@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:34:39 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi Denny, > > > > I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box â€" model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban ends: > > > > 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach > > > > 5&#8542;" built only, no box, motorized > > > > 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > > > I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, but the box lid was silent on the subject. > > > > …And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. > > > > Regards, > > Doug McKercher > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Doug, > > > > > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed in > > > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I have > > > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of mine > > > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench > > > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls them but > > > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone was > > > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > > > > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > > > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be careful if > > > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do > > > serious damage to them. > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "douglas.mckercher@" > > > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing > > > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They > > > look > > > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying > > > to > > > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20166	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

I'll defer to Denny on the subject of adhesives.  He's been involved in some very good past discussions on the subject.   I'm waiting for his report on the qualities of ICC's recommended adhesive, chloroform!    John B. Allyn From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:26:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company   Hi John, I'm not familiar with the Central Lines kits. It's a yellow plastic like styrene in its physical qualities, but appears to be more sensitive to heat distortion, from motors for instance. I think it was molded in steel dies rather than in a vacuum mold. The thickness is to great for vacuum molding, I believe, and the sides are dead flat on the back rather than arched as I would expect from a vacuum mould. I have a suspicion that the Ken Kidder double-truck Birneys may be made of the same substance. I have acquired some Ambroid glue at my local hobby shop. I am wondeering if this is what used to be called "airplane cement" (ie, for assembling balsa models). Wish me luck! By the way, my fractions appear not to have translated to HTML. The side lengths copied below were intended to be: 5 1/4" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach 5 7/8" built only, no box, motorized 7 1/2" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Are these car sides made out of the same odd plastic that the post-copper sides Central Lines car kits were?  > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:34:39 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company > >   > > > > > Hi Denny, > > I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box â€" model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban ends: > > 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach > > 5&#8542;" built only, no box, motorized > > 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, but the box lid was silent on the subject. > > …And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. > > Regards, > Doug McKercher > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > > > Doug, > > > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed in > > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I have > > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of mine > > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench > > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls them but > > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone was > > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be careful if > > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do > > serious damage to them. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "douglas.mckercher@" > > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing > > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They > > look > > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying > > to > > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20167	From: Douglas	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Denny, The manufacturer's instruction sheet you provided recommends acetone, the active ingredient in Ambroid, so I'll start with that and take it slowly. I find the carrier medium (solvent) in cyanoacrylates (Crazy Glue) has an etching effect on many materials, so feel I am again dealing with an unknown reactive agent, and these kits have no sprues or other waste to experiment on. I agree with your view on the generic nature of these kits, but as the prototype railways often used generic cars, it doesn't bother me a lot. I see what you mean about the roofs, and will make allowances. I'll let you know how it all turns out. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Doug, > > Don't spend too much time looking for a prototype. At the time > these were made most small cottage industries were going more for a > generic type of car. If you look closely at the sides you can see that > these cars were modular in nature. You can see the splices in the letter > board and follow them down the sides. The windows look like something > from a Pullman car. By the way Doug, take a good look at the cross > section of the roofs. Most were not even on both side of the > clerestory, raised, section. If you decide to use them you will have to > mill the bottoms of the roofs to clear the ends as they did not provide > a recess to accommodate the ends which are the same height as the sides. > Try and fit it together and you will see what I am trying to explain. > So based on what you said in another post you do have one of those > shorter cars I remember seeing. VERY Interesting!! I am an avid user > of Ambroid ( got 8 tubes in my tool box right now) but I doubt it will > work on those cars since they are nonporous. Ambroid does not work well > on plastics. I would consider the Acetone they suggest or some sort of > medium thickness ACC and make sure to keep pressure on the joint while > the glue dries. > > > > John, > > I am not a chemist so I cannot tell you about the exact composition of > plastic however by observation the plastic materials seem quite > different. The Central Lines car sides are much stiffer and of course > they are grey. I have also had some that were warped upward meaning > that the center of the side was higher at the letter board than the ends > were. These yellow sides are VERY flexible. They can be bent, torqued > and twisted. Besides the roof and floor, they require at least one > stiffener about mid car to keep the sides from bowing inward. However, > like the Central Lines cars I believe these were very well detailed for > their time and like I said in my Blog considering the fineness of detail > found in other models at the time I believe these were ahead of their > time. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > I'm not familiar with the Central Lines kits. It's a yellow plastic > like styrene in its physical qualities, but appears to be more sensitive > to heat distortion, from motors for instance. > > > > I think it was molded in steel dies rather than in a vacuum mold. The > thickness is to great for vacuum molding, I believe, and the sides are > dead flat on the back rather than arched as I would expect from a vacuum > mould. > > > > I have a suspicion that the Ken Kidder double-truck Birneys may be > made of the same substance. > > > > I have acquired some Ambroid glue at my local hobby shop. I am > wondeering if this is what used to be called "airplane cement" (ie, for > assembling balsa models). Wish me luck! > > > > By the way, my fractions appear not to have translated to HTML. The > side lengths copied below were intended to be: > > > > 5 1/4" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, > shorter coach > > > > 5 7/8" built only, no box, motorized > > > > 7 1/2" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes > black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard > wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@ wrote: > > > > > > Are these car sides made out of the same odd plastic that the > post-copper sides Central Lines car kits were? > > > > > > > > > John B. Allyn > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Douglas" douglas.mckercher@ > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:34:39 AM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Denny, > > > > > > I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box > â€" model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban > ends: > > > > > > 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, > shorter coach > > > > > > 5⅞" built only, no box, motorized > > > > > > 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes > black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard > wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > > > > > I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, > but the box lid was silent on the subject. > > > > > > …And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a > little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug, > > > > > > > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed > in > > > > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I > have > > > > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of > mine > > > > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work > bench > > > > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls > them but > > > > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone > was > > > > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > > > > > > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > > > > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be > careful if > > > > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will > do > > > > serious damage to them. > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "douglas.mckercher@" > > > > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for > providing > > > > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional > information on > > > > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see > a > > > > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the > instructions for > > > > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Douglas" > <douglas.mckercher@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. > They > > > > look > > > > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also > trying > > > > to > > > > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what > glue is > > > > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20168	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

John, Hopefully, I will not be doing any kind of testing or review of that product in the near future.  When I read chloroform on the instruction sheet I really had to stop and think about it.  Was that really used as an adhesive?  And the EPA is worried about some vapors we might get from Floquil or Ambroid or similar products.   Maybe that is what people mean when they say they miss the "Good O le Days".  So when you got tired of your neighbors dog barking in the middle of the night you could just . Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > I'll defer to Denny on the subject of adhesives.  He's been involved in  some very good past discussions on the subject . > > > > I'm waiting for his report on the q ualities of ICC's recommended adhesive, chloroform!   > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas" douglas.mckercher@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:26:22 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company > >   > > > > > Hi John, > > I'm not familiar with the Central Lines kits. It's a yellow plastic like styrene in its physical qualities, but appears to be more sensitive to heat distortion, from motors for instance. > > I think it was molded in steel dies rather than in a vacuum mold. The thickness is to great for vacuum molding, I believe, and the sides are dead flat on the back rather than arched as I would expect from a vacuum mould. > > I have a suspicion that the Ken Kidder double-truck Birneys may be made of the same substance. > > I have acquired some Ambroid glue at my local hobby shop. I am wondeering if this is what used to be called "airplane cement" (ie, for assembling balsa models). Wish me luck! > > By the way, my fractions appear not to have translated to HTML. The side lengths copied below were intended to be: > > 5 1/4" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach > > 5 7/8" built only, no box, motorized > > 7 1/2" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > Doug McKercher > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , john.allyn@ wrote: > > > > Are these car sides made out of the same odd plastic that the post-copper sides Central Lines car kits were?  > > > > > > John B. Allyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Douglas" douglas.mckercher@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:34:39 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi Denny, > > > > I have 4 of these in 3 coach side lengths (2 built, 2 unbuilt in box â€" model nos are from the box lids), all with round interurban ends: > > > > 5¼" no 203, same box number as your yellow box, but different, shorter coach > > > > 5&#8542;" built only, no box, motorized > > > > 7½" no 29, like your shorter round-ended IU coach. Kit includes black plastic stairs (2) and cow catcher (1) in addition to standard wooden roof and floor, acetate strips for windows. > > > > I bought no 29 on the assurance that it was of a THI&E prototype, but the box lid was silent on the subject. > > > > …And yes, I am sure I never mixed up the box lids. So, a little mystery concerning the identity of the prototypes remains. > > > > Regards, > > Doug McKercher > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Doug, > > > > > > Glad that I could be of some assistance. How do the sides I showed in > > > the Blog compare to the ones you have? Like I said in the Blog, I have > > > been aware of three different lengths. Some years ago a friend of mine > > > had what I remember to be a shorter set which I saw on his work bench > > > one night during an operation session. He also vaguely recalls them but > > > does not know what happened to them. He did recall that someone was > > > selling just the yellow sides at a local swap meet. > > > > > > When you get going on your projects please post some pictures. One > > > other piece of info I got from friends back in Illinois. Be careful if > > > you try and strip the paint off of the sides as most solvents will do > > > serious damage to them. > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "douglas.mckercher@" > > > <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for your help and advice, and to Denny for providing > > > an instruction sheet and introducing me to his blog. > > > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas, > > > > > > > > > > In answer to you question as well as some additional information on > > > > > these cars, check out today's Blog on my WEB site. You can see a > > > > > few photo's of the kits and download copies of the instructions for > > > > > these interesting cars which I believe were way before their time. > > > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > > > > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com < http://www.cwrailman.com/ > > > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > > > > < http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They > > > look > > > > > like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying > > > to > > > > > identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is > > > > > recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Doug McKercher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20169	From: tom bell	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

I used Chloroform on my early cars built from plastic sheet. It had the unfortunate effect of making the plastic brittle after a few years but was much stronger and at that time easier to obtain than the proprietary solvents.  I also have a feeling that the original Plastistruct "Plastiweld" was chloroform too -  it was in use then as a solvent for perspex and ABS I think  Tom On 14 September 2012 21:05, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   John, Hopefully, I will not be doing any kind of testing or review of that product in the near future.  When I read chloroform on the instruction sheet I really had to stop and think about it.  Was that really used as an adhesive?  And the EPA is worried about some vapors we might get from Floquil or Ambroid or similar products.   Maybe that is what people mean when they say they miss the "Good Ole Days".  So when you got tired of your neighbors dog barking in the middle of the night you could just ……. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20170	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Acetone might be the best bet. John B. Allyn From: "tom bell" <tebeeb@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 3:18:54 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Indianapolis Car Company   I used Chloroform on my early cars built from plastic sheet. It had the unfortunate effect of making the plastic brittle after a few years but was much stronger and at that time easier to obtain than the proprietary solvents.  I also have a feeling that the original Plastistruct "Plastiweld" was chloroform too -  it was in use then as a solvent for perspex and ABS I think  Tom On 14 September 2012 21:05, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   John, Hopefully, I will not be doing any kind of testing or review of that product in the near future.  When I read chloroform on the instruction sheet I really had to stop and think about it.  Was that really used as an adhesive?  And the EPA is worried about some vapors we might get from Floquil or Ambroid or similar products.   Maybe that is what people mean when they say they miss the "Good Ole Days".  So when you got tired of your neighbors dog barking in the middle of the night you could just ……. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20171	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: roadblock

> > > Does anyone have the parts sheet / assembly diagram for the > earliest cast metal Mountain version that Lew English of Montoursville > first produced after he bought out Bowser around 1960. NOT the brass > version by Bill Bowser of Redlands CA . I looked in my Bowser catalog > but only contains a later version. I checked out HOseeker. Again later > versions. Can't find anything for this earliest model. I have a frame > that takes the Super Motor that was created by Bill Bowser of Redlands > CA and Lew English Bowser of Mountourville used at first. It also has > the "gear tower" where the gear to the geared driver is supported by > two supports. My problem deals with the valve gear and eccentrics. I > think some things are jury rigged but have nothing to check things > out. This engine has the main driver that you used pins you screwed > into the driver to put the side and main rods on and then you had > eccentrics that had the little screw in them that you tightened on > those pins. I can't tightened the eccentrics enough to hold them in > place. The big problem is I don't know if my valve gear is assembled > right to attach to the frame and are the eccentrics the right thing > also. Need the paperwork to find out what's what. I hope I'm > explaining the problem. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20172	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock

Jim, I'll mail you a copy of the instructions on Monday morning. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20173	From: Douglas	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Indianapolis Car Company

Following up on my own query, I found a list of Indianapolis Car Co products on the Interurbans group> Files section. Looks pretty comprehensive. Thanks, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > I have a number of unbuilt and broken ICC interurban kits. They look like styrene, but styrene cement won't stick them. I'm also trying to identify some from model nos on the boxes alone. > > Does anyone have an old instruction sheet that tells what glue is recommended, or a list of model nos with model names? > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20174	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock

Ray F W.      Really appreciate that you will send the instructions I need. Thanks. Be glad to refund you Shipping                                                           Jim On 9/15/2012 5:33 PM, erieberk@... wrote:   Jim, I'll mail you a copy of the instructions on Monday morning. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20175	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Die cast painting

Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20176	From: Mike	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of the surface. What primer are you using? I am no expert, but those factors need to be part of the thread. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20178	From: Chris B	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout

Attachments : W&OD Rosslyn Branch - HO model railroad layout benchwork-in-progress.jpg vintage HO natural-brass models for use on W&OD layout.jpg I just finished taking 3 weeks off between changing jobs; after 30 years with USPS IT, I'm now working for the FAA Privacy Office, in the building next to USPS HQ in SW DC. Spent most of the time working on the benchwork for my HO layout for the Washington & Old Dominion in the WWII and post-war era; it's a multi-deck around the room layout with substantial additional benchwork in an adjacent room that provides staging, ramp space for changing levels, and some return loops. The latest track plan version is pretty well confirmed as the final plan; so now I just have to lay 900 ft of flex track and make sure it all works as planned, then cover all the benchwork in the main room with hardwood veneer plywood, then replace all the flextrack in the main room with vintage hardwood roadbed tenshodo and truscale track and turnouts; replace all the plain flex track in the side room with Shinohara flex bridge track with double rails (to minimize derails and improve current pickup)... and by then, if all goes well...it will be 2014 and I will be retired and sble to start bashing and building the remaining brass models needed for the full W&OD roster. I've got all of that trackage in stock; I just spent this afternoon pulling out all of the excess vintage brass and diecast rolling stock & engines I acquired when I started this project four  years ago; at some point after I retire I plan to put all of those models and all of the excess tru scale trackage on ebay; until then it's going in the attic; because the next phase of construction is to finish the return loops that take up most of the pantry that up to now has been dead storage for all of the accumulated extra models and materials; it's the final section of benchwork to be completed, after this, it's nothing but months of flex-track. Back to the basement... Chris Brannigan

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20179	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout [2 Attachm

Chris,      Glad the change of jobs went well. Lucky to get that new job so quick.           I remember when you first said about your layout would be all wood ballasted track . Well it came out very nice. That collection of brass especially the engines is great. I also like you multi picture attachments. I've see it done before but I have no idea how. I'm lucky just to be able to send attachments that contain single pictures.                               Jim H On 9/16/2012 4:42 PM, Chris B wrote:   I just finished taking 3 weeks off between changing jobs; after 30 years with USPS IT, I'm now working for the FAA Privacy Office, in the building next to USPS HQ in SW DC. Spent most of the time working on the benchwork for my HO layout for the Washington & Old Dominion in the WWII and post-war era; it's a multi-deck around the room layout with substantial additional benchwork in an adjacent room that provides staging, ramp space for changing levels, and some return loops. The latest track plan version is pretty well confirmed as the final plan; so now I just have to lay 900 ft of flex track and make sure it all works as planned, then cover all the benchwork in the main room with hardwood veneer plywood, then replace all the flextrack in the main room with vintage hardwood roadbed tenshodo and truscale track and turnouts; replace all the plain flex track in the side room with Shinohara flex bridge track with double rails (to minimize derails and improve current pickup)... and by then, if all goes well...it will be 2014 and I will be retired and sble to start bashing and building the remaining brass models needed for the full W&OD roster. I've got all of that trackage in stock; I just spent this afternoon pulling out all of the excess vintage brass and diecast rolling stock & engines I acquired when I started this project four  years ago; at some point after I retire I plan to put all of those models and all of the excess tru scale trackage on ebay; until then it's going in the attic; because the next phase of construction is to finish the return loops that take up most of the pantry that up to now has been dead storage for all of the accumulated extra models and materials; it's the final section of benchwork to be completed, after this, it's nothing but months of flex-track. Back to the basement... Chris Brannigan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20180	From: Chris B	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout

Jim thanks.  but it was anything but quick; I started looking last year when the USPS announced they wanted to take their health benefits out of the federal plan, including benefits for retirees; I applied for this job in March; interviewed 3 times before getting an offer in June; then two months of background investigation and 41 forms to fill out and bring to orientation on my first day...but at least I got a good bump and my retirement benefits won't go down the tubes when the USPS does... Thanks for noticing the track, it happened by accident, I started out with the Tru-Scale double turnouts because I didn't want to flip return loop switches; then I got some of the nicer looking mahogany Tenshodo trackage on ebay; and then when I saw how the natural brass models looked on my oak desktop with the wood roadbed track...it was all over. The multiple photos are just something I do in Powerpoint, you just import any photos you want onto one slide, move them around and scale them to fit, then save the slide as a single jpg file and attach that to your email. Chris Brannigan From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout   Chris,      Glad the change of jobs went well. Lucky to get that new job so quick.           I remember when you first said about your layout would be all wood ballasted track . Well it came out very nice. That collection of brass especially the engines is great. I also like you multi picture attachments. I've see it done before but I have no idea how. I'm lucky just to be able to send attachments that contain single pictures.                               Jim H On 9/16/2012 4:42 PM, Chris B wrote:   I just finished taking 3 weeks off between changing jobs; after 30 years with USPS IT, I'm now working for the FAA Privacy Office, in the building next to USPS HQ in SW DC. Spent most of the time working on the benchwork for my HO layout for the Washington & Old Dominion in the WWII and post-war era; it's a multi-deck around the room layout with substantial additional benchwork in an adjacent room that provides staging, ramp space for changing levels, and some return loops. The latest track plan version is pretty well confirmed as the final plan; so now I just have to lay 900 ft of flex track and make sure it all works as planned, then cover all the benchwork in the main room with hardwood veneer plywood, then replace all the flextrack in the main room with vintage hardwood roadbed tenshodo and truscale track and turnouts; replace all the plain flex track in the side room with Shinohara flex bridge track with double rails (to minimize derails and improve current pickup)... and by then, if all goes well...it will be 2014 and I will be retired and sble to start bashing and building the remaining brass models needed for the full W&OD roster. I've got all of that trackage in stock; I just spent this afternoon pulling out all of the excess vintage brass and diecast rolling stock & engines I acquired when I started this project four  years ago; at some point after I retire I plan to put all of those models and all of the excess tru scale trackage on ebay; until then it's going in the attic; because the next phase of construction is to finish the return loops that take up most of the pantry that up to now has been dead storage for all of the accumulated extra models and materials; it's the final section of benchwork to be completed, after this, it's nothing but months of flex-track. Back to the basement... Chris Brannigan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20181	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > > Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of the surface. > > What primer are you using? > > I am no expert, but those factors need to be part of the thread. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "lewis.ted16" lewis.ted16@... wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20182	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout [2 Attachm

On 9/16/2012 3:42 PM, Chris B wrote: When you say "natural brass" in one of your photos, is that meaning that you'll be running them unpainted? -- Rick Jones I have no problem with god. It's his/hers/its fan clubs that irk me.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20183	From: Chris B	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout

Attachments : natural brass finish HO models for W&OD vintage layout.jpg Rick, yes.  I seek out unpainted models, but if it's one I need, and it's painted, it has been, or will be stripped. As you can see in the attached photos, most of the engines, gas electrics, and interurbans are fairly presentable in their range of finishes, some are mint perfect, and some are tarnished. I've also made a deliberate effort to accumulate a diverse collection of brass rolling stock models that are suitable for the W&OD and the era, but also including a substantial number of horribly tarnished cars, along with some mint and many slightly tarnished or solder-disfigured cars. For me, in person perhaps more than in photos, when they are all presented together on hardwood backgrounds with only brass and wood visible, in their own way they "realistically" represent the effects of heavy weathering often applied to painted models. So my intention is not to present a shelf of mint unpainted brass models; but rather, using a background of only wood grain, to present something similar to the effect of a typical layout's presentation of heavily weathered equipment, but to do it with actual brass tarnish, discolored solder, bent thin sheet metal, and even foam stain residue in at least one case, rather than with paint and powders. The real thing is beat-up worn-out painted metal on battered wooden ties; I know this is not as effective in simulating that look as the traditional methods, but it has its own appeal, similar to the visual appeal of worn but serviceable antique long-arms, clocks, or tools. Chris Brannigan From: Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] update on W&OD Rosslyn Branch vintage-brass HO layout   On 9/16/2012 3:42 PM, Chris B wrote: When you say "natural brass" in one of your photos, is that meaning that you'll be running them unpainted? -- Rick Jones I have no problem with god. It's his/hers/its fan clubs that irk me.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20184	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Hi Lewis, This sounds bizarre.  I have used all kinds of Floquil over primer, the old version as well as the new.  I have used Floquil thinned with lacquer thinner and just plain Paint Thinner (NEW Floquil only) and I have never had an issue.  I wonder if maybe you did not wait long enough between primer and color coat or maybe you used a different kind of primer?  Generally, I use cheap automotive primer from Wal-Mart.  It works GREAT! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lewis.ted16@... Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:35:56 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting   I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > > Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of the surface. > > What primer are you using? > > I am no expert, but those factors need to be part of the thread. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "lewis.ted16" lewis.ted16@... wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20185	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

If you want tp bake your finish, I suggest using Scalecoat, NOT the acrylic version.  I am not sure how Floquil will handle baking.  I know for a fact Testors enamels do really well when baked, but most of those colors are not generally suitable for painting rail cars. Regards. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lewis.ted16@... Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Die cast painting   Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20186	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/16/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Mike, et al: Over many years of painting models-- especially those of brass and cast metals of all kinds-- I have  finally arrived at some basic observations and procedures that generally work for me. First of all, I might state that I emailed Bowser a few years back and asked what they recommended in relation to baking as their factory painted  cast metal stuff was obviously top-o-the line paint-wise. They indicated that I shouldn't bake as it "might blow up the oven," and that the final finish is what counts. To me, that was an answer that was of little help and was really disingenuous as far as I was concerned (didn't want to give away trade secrets?) OK, to make a really looooooooong story still long but a bit shorter, I gave up entirely on baking as I finally (with the recommendation of a local commercial model maker of brass trolleys) started to use acrylic Floquil paint--specifically gray Polly Scale undercoat for all metal models. Lord knows why, but that stuff seems to adhere well. But all metals and brass in particular have to be CLEANED well. I use a hydrosonic cleaning machine (leave it in for the entire 15 minutes). Barring that expensive gadget, the metal has to be dipped into a strong cleaner and then that put into sudsy water and rinsed. Brass is often uncooperative anyway, and sometimes a light application of fine sand paper helps to give those tiny groves into which the paint doth fall, and many cast metals already have minute surface blemishes that help. In any case, The next coat of whatever color should really be an acrylic paint also. HOWEVER, Floquil's regular stuff works for the next coat too--providing you let the acrylic dry for at least 24 hours. ScaleCoat II is also friendly to acrylics (any paint friendly to plastics will also work as the next coat), but ScaleCoat I will make a mess of acrylics. ScaleCoat also makes a flat coating that is labeled as ScaleCoat I but which they claim works on acrylics and plastics anyway ( I wrote and asked 'em)--and it does work for me. Finally, Bowser wasn't entirely being evasive about the final clear coat. I often use Floquil with about 15% of their lacquer with any of their regular clear coats to make a pretty tough finish (again, make sure an acrylic paint is allowed to dry thoroughly first). I might add that ScaleCoat claims that their ScaleCoat I does not require an undercoat for metals anyway, and this seems to be true, but that paint is too glossy and takes too long to dry for my tastes. All this being said, there are other paints, combinations, and procedures that others will swear by (Wal-Mart paint fans for instance), but I have tried here to give you some direction to go on for painting metals that has worked for me. Paint chemistry is certainly an area that needs experimentation by the user in any case. Good luck with it! Art W            In a message dated 9/16/2012 7:38:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lewis.ted16@... writes: I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > > Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of the surface. > > What primer are you using? > > I am no expert, but those factors need to be part of the thread. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "lewis.ted16" lewis.ted16@... wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20187	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Floquil works real well when baked.  I have some brass engines from the late 60's that I baked after painting -- no sign of chipping after 40+ years. John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 8:36:27 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Die cast painting   If you want tp bake your finish, I suggest using Scalecoat, NOT the acrylic version.  I am not sure how Floquil will handle baking.  I know for a fact Testors enamels do really well when baked, but most of those colors are not generally suitable for painting rail cars. Regards. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lewis.ted16@... Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Die cast painting   Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20188	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

But John, The Floquil of today is not the same as the Floquil of 40 years ago, at least that is my conclusion. I liked the old one, and the wide choices of colors. Walter On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:14 AM, <john.allyn@...> wrote:   Floquil works real well when baked.  I have some brass engines from the late 60's that I baked after painting -- no sign of chipping after 40+ years. John B. Allyn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20189	From: David J. Starr	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

On 9/16/2012 4:35 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote: I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of the surface. What primer are you using? I am no expert, but those factors need to be part of the thread. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "lewis.ted16" lewis.ted16@... wrote: Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. Surface prep is the difference between paint that sticks and paint that chips.  You have to remove every trace of grease, oil, finger prints, mold parting compound and what ever.  You cannot touch the cleaned parts with your bare hands.  Hot soapy water is the essential cleaning agent.  On really tough jobs I will first clean the parts in solvent and then in soap and water. Then you have to pickle the metal surface in a mild acid.  I use supermarket vinegar 'cause it's always in the house.  The acid etches the surface enough to give the paint some tooth to grab onto.  You want to clean before pickling because grease or oil interferes with the etching.     Paint doesn't like to stick to metal, not the way it sticks to wood.   Chemists have been working on the problem for a long time.  Their best results are sold in rattlecans marked "Auto Primer".  This is a competitive market, and the custormers are mechanics who want the stuff to stick on not-so -well cleaned auto parts.   The model paints (Floquil, Scale Coat, Polly Scale) sometimes carry "primers", but you never know if they have that special stick-to-metal chemistry that the rattle cans have. When paint chips, its the weakest bond, primer to metal, that fails,  Topcoats never chip off the primer.  So if the primer is good, the whole paint job is good.    Baking works on enamels, paints which dry thru an irreversible chemical reaction, like acrylic paint.  The heat speeds the reaction and drives off moisture.   I don't think baking helps lacquers (Floquil).  Lacquer dries by the evaporation of the very volatile thinner.  Its reversable, lacquer thinner will dissolve dried lacquer.  Although heat will make the lacquer thinner evaporate faster, the stuff already evaporates so fast, that speeding it up doesn't make a difference. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20190	From: Richard	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Yesterday I painted an old Mantua die-cast 0-4-0 cab after removing what was left of the old paint. I left it in a jar of brake fluid the night brfore. With an old tooth brush, I scrubed off the old paint and then wash it with dish detergent. OK, I know, all of this is pretty much standard procedure Right? Stay with me because I'm about to deviate. Up to this point I have done most of my model painting with an air brush but this time I decided to try a method that I have read about from time to time, just to see how it would turn out. I grabbed a spray can of Walmart flat black ($1.19) and went to work. After letting it dry most of the day, I installed it back on the model and to my amasment it matched the factory Engine Black and stands up to handling without coming off. This was without a primer to mess up details, by the way. The quality of the paint is excellent too. No running, just a nice smooth finish. The spray nozzel looks to me as though it has been refind a bit because the paint came out in a nice fine mist, without any blobs to ruin the finish. Try it you mike like it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20191	From: Douglas	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Ted, Both manufacturers of diecast models and makers of paint say the same thing: if you make sure your surface is clean and dry, there will be no chipping. As a graphic designer, I am scrupulously clean with my work, and I got chipping. As Rudolf Nureyev used to say, "Dot's da Bolshoi!" On top of chipping with normal handling, I got chipping when I masked off my surfaces for painting. I noticed ny body work guy painted bare metal and used masking tape, both with good results, so I asked him his secret. Two things, he said: self-etching primer and low-tack (less sticky) masking tape. I use Pro-Form self-etching primer, available from auto paint stores, and 3M Scotch Blue Painter's tape, from Home Depot. I still get occasional chipping, but MUCH less. A 12-ounce can of primer will do a fair number of models. A warning, though: heed the instructions on the primer can. Self-etching primer is not something you should get on tissue you want to keep using into your old age, like eyes and lungs. But you know that already. Right? Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20192	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

I got excellent results using plain old distilled vinegar on zamac die castings.    I don't know what I'd use on type metal castings, e.g. Red Ball.  Type metal is mostly lead whch isn't going to etch with acids that I'd like to have around the house.  John B. Allyn From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:21:19 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting   Ted, Both manufacturers of diecast models and makers of paint say the same thing: if you make sure your surface is clean and dry, there will be no chipping. As a graphic designer, I am scrupulously clean with my work, and I got chipping. As Rudolf Nureyev used to say, "Dot's da Bolshoi!" On top of chipping with normal handling, I got chipping when I masked off my surfaces for painting. I noticed ny body work guy painted bare metal and used masking tape, both with good results, so I asked him his secret. Two things, he said: self-etching primer and low-tack (less sticky) masking tape. I use Pro-Form self-etching primer, available from auto paint stores, and 3M Scotch Blue Painter's tape, from Home Depot. I still get occasional chipping, but MUCH less. A 12-ounce can of primer will do a fair number of models. A warning, though: heed the instructions on the primer can. Self-etching primer is not something you should get on tissue you want to keep using into your old age, like eyes and lungs. But you know that already. Right? Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. Thanks. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20193	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

I still like to etch the surface before painting. There used to be a product used in auto painting called “Metal Prep.” It may still be available but I purchased mine back in the eighties. One of the items I used it on was a Cary S-2 shell. I mention this as I later tried to remove the paint as I was going to re-detail the engine. And I mean tried as that shell is still sitting around here somewhere with some paint still stuck on it. Most of the other pieces I painted were for others and none of the owners of those pieces ever had any problem with chipping. Oh yes, the Cary shell was painted for the Green Bay and Western in their red and gray with black stripes scheme so I did plenty of masking. All of the locos I did were diesels with multi colored schemes so they all required some masking and I never had any problem with paint coming off with the tape. And back then there wasn’t any low tack tape. I used to stick a strip of tape on a clean piece of glass first then apply it to the model, in effect making my own low tack tape. But I started doing that later on when I was doing some plastic stuff.   Now what with all the new regulations I don’t know if “Metal Prep” is still available or how much it costs if it is. Most auto paint supplies have gone out of sight cost wise. But vinegar is still around albeit I personally don’t like the stuff.   Why is that Cary shell still sitting around? While doing the detailing (This was a major project including see thru steps, etc.) Atlas introduced their S-2 with scale width hoods. As much as I liked (still do actually) the Cary shells and their weight the over width hoods put me off. But I could never quite bear to toss that project. Talk about hoarding.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting     Ted, Both manufacturers of diecast models and makers of paint say the same thing: if you make sure your surface is clean and dry, there will be no chipping. As a graphic designer, I am scrupulously clean with my work, and I got chipping. As Rudolf Nureyev used to say, "Dot's da Bolshoi!" On top of chipping with normal handling, I got chipping when I masked off my surfaces for painting. I noticed ny body work guy painted bare metal and used masking tape, both with good results, so I asked him his secret. Two things, he said: self-etching primer and low-tack (less sticky) masking tape. I use Pro-Form self-etching primer, available from auto paint stores, and 3M Scotch Blue Painter's tape, from Home Depot. I still get occasional chipping, but MUCH less. A 12-ounce can of primer will do a fair number of models. A warning, though: heed the instructions on the primer can. Self-etching primer is not something you should get on tissue you want to keep using into your old age, like eyes and lungs. But you know that already. Right? Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20194	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Here is one source of the kind of stuff you are referring to, but I am sure that there are other places with similar material in smaller quantities. <http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-afterblast.html> Incidentally, I did paint a Cary S-2 body and mount it on an Athearn switcher chassis. I know that I didn't "prep" the casting, and the paint (whatever I used back then) is still on it forty plus years later. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/bowseralco.html> Mike On 9/17/2012 12:14 PM, John Hagen wrote: > I still like to etch the surface before painting. There used to be a > product used in auto painting called “Metal Prep.” It may still be > available but I purchased mine back in the eighties. One of the items > I used it on was a Cary S-2 shell. I mention this as I later tried to > remove the paint as I was going to re-detail the engine. And I mean > tried as that shell is still sitting around here somewhere with some > paint still stuck on it. Most of the other pieces I painted were for > others and none of the owners of those pieces ever had any problem > with chipping. Oh yes, the Cary shell was painted for the Green Bay > and Western in their red and gray with black stripes scheme so I did > plenty of masking. All of the locos I did were diesels with multi > colored schemes so they all required some masking and I never had any > problem with paint coming off with the tape. And back then there > wasn’t any low tack tape. I used to stick a strip of tape on a clean > piece of glass first then apply it to the model, in effect making my > own low tack tape. But I started doing that later on when I was doing > some plastic stuff. > > Now what with all the new regulations I don’t know if “Metal Prep” is > still available or how much it costs if it is. Most auto paint > supplies have gone out of sight cost wise. But vinegar is still > around albeit I personally don’t like the stuff. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20195	From: Douglas	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Hi John, Stripping is of course a whole nother ballgame. I have found auto brake fluid (it sounds like I spend my time hanging around my corner garage, I know) works very well on gently stripping whitemetal and modern plastics (styrene). I did strip an old kitbashed Bachmann trolley shell that I bought on eBay, and while the plastic was undamaged, the glue fell apart! I don't know what kind of glue it was. I suspect contact cement. A friend from my traction group said he had good success stripping with Pine-Sol, so I tried that on an old styrene building. The paint came off, but it etched the styrene. My wife is happy with the Pine-Sol. She uses it on floors for some reason, and says it works very well for that. Who would have guessed? By the way, I used brake fluid on a diecast shell that I had previously primed and painted and wanted to repaint. The paint came off easily, but not the self-etching auto primer. The brake fluid did soften the primer enough that I was able to scrape it off with a fingernail, though. I count that as a win for both the brake fluid stripper and the self-etching primer. But these things are always at your own risk, of course. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I still like to etch the surface before painting. There used to be a product > used in auto painting called "Metal Prep." It may still be available but I > purchased mine back in the eighties. One of the items I used it on was a > Cary S-2 shell. I mention this as I later tried to remove the paint as I was > going to re-detail the engine. And I mean tried as that shell is still > sitting around here somewhere with some paint still stuck on it. Most of the > other pieces I painted were for others and none of the owners of those > pieces ever had any problem with chipping. Oh yes, the Cary shell was > painted for the Green Bay and Western in their red and gray with black > stripes scheme so I did plenty of masking. All of the locos I did were > diesels with multi colored schemes so they all required some masking and I > never had any problem with paint coming off with the tape. And back then > there wasn't any low tack tape. I used to stick a strip of tape on a clean > piece of glass first then apply it to the model, in effect making my own low > tack tape. But I started doing that later on when I was doing some plastic > stuff. > > > > Now what with all the new regulations I don't know if "Metal Prep" is still > available or how much it costs if it is. Most auto paint supplies have gone > out of sight cost wise. But vinegar is still around albeit I personally > don't like the stuff. > > > > Why is that Cary shell still sitting around? While doing the detailing (This > was a major project including see thru steps, etc.) Atlas introduced their > S-2 with scale width hoods. As much as I liked (still do actually) the Cary > shells and their weight the over width hoods put me off. But I could never > quite bear to toss that project. Talk about hoarding. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Douglas > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:21 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting > > > > > > Ted, > > Both manufacturers of diecast models and makers of paint say the same thing: > if you make sure your surface is clean and dry, there will be no chipping. > As a graphic designer, I am scrupulously clean with my work, and I got > chipping. As Rudolf Nureyev used to say, "Dot's da Bolshoi!" > > On top of chipping with normal handling, I got chipping when I masked off my > surfaces for painting. > > I noticed ny body work guy painted bare metal and used masking tape, both > with good results, so I asked him his secret. > > Two things, he said: self-etching primer and low-tack (less sticky) masking > tape. I use Pro-Form self-etching primer, available from auto paint stores, > and 3M Scotch Blue Painter's tape, from Home Depot. I still get occasional > chipping, but MUCH less. > > A 12-ounce can of primer will do a fair number of models. A warning, though: > heed the instructions on the primer can. Self-etching primer is not > something you should get on tissue you want to keep using into your old age, > like eyes and lungs. But you know that already. Right? > > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20196	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Different John here.    I've found that rubbing alcohol does a good job of removing paint from plastic models, at least Athearn blue box types.  On metal I've used Strypeeze liquid, which contains methanol.  You'll want rubber gloves when working with methanol. John B. Allyn From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:58:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting   Hi John, Stripping is of course a whole nother ballgame. I have found auto brake fluid (it sounds like I spend my time hanging around my corner garage, I know) works very well on gently stripping whitemetal and modern plastics (styrene). I did strip an old kitbashed Bachmann trolley shell that I bought on eBay, and while the plastic was undamaged, the glue fell apart! I don't know what kind of glue it was. I suspect contact cement. A friend from my traction group said he had good success stripping with Pine-Sol, so I tried that on an old styrene building. The paint came off, but it etched the styrene. My wife is happy with the Pine-Sol. She uses it on floors for some reason, and says it works very well for that. Who would have guessed? By the way, I used brake fluid on a diecast shell that I had previously primed and painted and wanted to repaint. The paint came off easily, but not the self-etching auto primer. The brake fluid did soften the primer enough that I was able to scrape it off with a fingernail, though. I count that as a win for both the brake fluid stripper and the self-etching primer. But these things are always at your own risk, of course. Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I still like to etch the surface before painting. There used to be a product > used in auto painting called "Metal Prep." It may still be available but I > purchased mine back in the eighties. One of the items I used it on was a > Cary S-2 shell. I mention this as I later tried to remove the paint as I was > going to re-detail the engine. And I mean tried as that shell is still > sitting around here somewhere with some paint still stuck on it. Most of the > other pieces I painted were for others and none of the owners of those > pieces ever had any problem with chipping. Oh yes, the Cary shell was > painted for the Green Bay and Western in their red and gray with black > stripes scheme so I did plenty of masking. All of the locos I did were > diesels with multi colored schemes so they all required some masking and I > never had any problem with paint coming off with the tape. And back then > there wasn't any low tack tape. I used to stick a strip of tape on a clean > piece of glass first then apply it to the model, in effect making my own low > tack tape. But I started doing that later on when I was doing some plastic > stuff. > > > > Now what with all the new regulations I don't know if "Metal Prep" is still > available or how much it costs if it is. Most auto paint supplies have gone > out of sight cost wise. But vinegar is still around albeit I personally > don't like the stuff. > > > > Why is that Cary shell still sitting around? While doing the detailing (This > was a major project including see thru steps, etc.) Atlas introduced their > S-2 with scale width hoods. As much as I liked (still do actually) the Cary > shells and their weight the over width hoods put me off. But I could never > quite bear to toss that project. Talk about hoarding. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Douglas > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:21 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting > > > > > > Ted, > > Both manufacturers of diecast models and makers of paint say the same thing: > if you make sure your surface is clean and dry, there will be no chipping. > As a graphic designer, I am scrupulously clean with my work, and I got > chipping. As Rudolf Nureyev used to say, "Dot's da Bolshoi!" > > On top of chipping with normal handling, I got chipping when I masked off my > surfaces for painting. > > I noticed ny body work guy painted bare metal and used masking tape, both > with good results, so I asked him his secret. > > Two things, he said: self-etching primer and low-tack (less sticky) masking > tape. I use Pro-Form self-etching primer, available from auto paint stores, > and 3M Scotch Blue Painter's tape, from Home Depot. I still get occasional > chipping, but MUCH less. > > A 12-ounce can of primer will do a fair number of models. A warning, though: > heed the instructions on the primer can. Self-etching primer is not > something you should get on tissue you want to keep using into your old age, > like eyes and lungs. But you know that already. Right? > > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20197	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Well, thanks to everyone for their input and effort. The Ulrich hoppers may not have been totally dry, as they were kept in a large toolbox in my semi. Dry to the touch, but not all the way through. I have a Roundhouse full of English, Pennline and Mantua engines that I intend to refinish over the winter. Strip, scrub, pickle and prime will be the method. When I figure out how to get good photos of them I'll post my progress. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> wrote: > > On 9/16/2012 4:35 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote: > > I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil > > Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial > > on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an > > airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of > > the surface. > >> What primer are you using? > >> > >> I am no expert, but those factors need to be part of the thread. > >> > >> Mike Bauers > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >> On Sep 16, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "lewis.ted16" lewis.ted16@ wrote: > >> > >> Does anyone have any experience baking-on Floquil or other paint to > > diecast parts? I want to avoid the chipping-off that so often occurs. > > Thanks. > Surface prep is the difference between paint that sticks and paint that > chips. You have to remove every trace of grease, oil, finger prints, > mold parting compound and what ever. You cannot touch the cleaned parts > with your bare hands. Hot soapy water is the essential cleaning agent. > On really tough jobs I will first clean the parts in solvent and then in > soap and water. Then you have to pickle the metal surface in a mild > acid. I use supermarket vinegar 'cause it's always in the house. The > acid etches the surface enough to give the paint some tooth to grab > onto. You want to clean before pickling because grease or oil > interferes with the etching. > Paint doesn't like to stick to metal, not the way it sticks to > wood. Chemists have been working on the problem for a long time. > Their best results are sold in rattlecans marked "Auto Primer". This is > a competitive market, and the custormers are mechanics who want the > stuff to stick on not-so -well cleaned auto parts. The model paints > (Floquil, Scale Coat, Polly Scale) sometimes carry "primers", but you > never know if they have that special stick-to-metal chemistry that the > rattle cans have. When paint chips, its the weakest bond, primer to > metal, that fails, Topcoats never chip off the primer. So if the primer > is good, the whole paint job is good. > Baking works on enamels, paints which dry thru an irreversible > chemical reaction, like acrylic paint. The heat speeds the reaction and > drives off moisture. I don't think baking helps lacquers (Floquil). > Lacquer dries by the evaporation of the very volatile thinner. Its > reversable, lacquer thinner will dissolve dried lacquer. Although heat > will make the lacquer thinner evaporate faster, the stuff already > evaporates so fast, that speeding it up doesn't make a difference. > > -- > > David J > > David J. Starr > > Blog:http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20198	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

I've been using a paint other than Floquil for a long time now. Is the stuff still flat-finish and in need of an additive to have a semi-gloss or glossy finish? Which I used to do. But then I discovered that another brand of paint was much better for putting decals on it. I also learned that starting from a glossy paint, decaling, and weathering over that was very realistic; since all in the real world has some glossy paint under it's coats of dirt and grime of operation. The exception is a very old piece of badly maintained equipment that wasn't repainted for the last 20 years. Now -that- has flat, dead paint under all of the peeling, rusting, and layered crud of the last 20 years.. Mike Bauers On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, lewis.ted16 wrote: > > > Well, thanks to everyone for their input and effort. The Ulrich hoppers may not have been totally dry, as they were kept in a large toolbox in my semi. Dry to the touch, but not all the way through. I have a Roundhouse full of English, Pennline and Mantua engines that I intend to refinish over the winter. Strip, scrub, pickle and prime will be the method. When I figure out how to get good photos of them I'll post my progress. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> wrote: >> >> On 9/16/2012 4:35 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote: >>> I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil >>> Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial >>> on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an >>> airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of >>> the surface. >>>> What primer are you using?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20199	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Yeah but you youngin’s don’t remember the days of dead flat freight cars back in the just post war years. I agree that modern trains and even the early stuff were basically shiny with dirt but not freight equipment. Even if left the paint shop in a semi gloss state it didn’t last very long with the paint of the era. Rarely did I see a even remotely shiny freight loco, car or caboose and if I did the build or rebuild dates were generally within the year.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:52 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting     I've been using a paint other than Floquil for a long time now. Is the stuff still flat-finish and in need of an additive to have a semi-gloss or glossy finish? Which I used to do. But then I discovered that another brand of paint was much better for putting decals on it. I also learned that starting from a glossy paint, decaling, and weathering over that was very realistic; since all in the real world has some glossy paint under it's coats of dirt and grime of operation. The exception is a very old piece of badly maintained equipment that wasn't repainted for the last 20 years. Now -that- has flat, dead paint under all of the peeling, rusting, and layered crud of the last 20 years.. Mike Bauers On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, lewis.ted16 wrote: > > > Well, thanks to everyone for their input and effort. The Ulrich hoppers may not have been totally dry, as they were kept in a large toolbox in my semi. Dry to the touch, but not all the way through. I have a Roundhouse full of English, Pennline and Mantua engines that I intend to refinish over the winter. Strip, scrub, pickle and prime will be the method. When I figure out how to get good photos of them I'll post my progress. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@...> wrote: >> >> On 9/16/2012 4:35 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote: >>> I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil >>> Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial >>> on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an >>> airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of >>> the surface. >>>> What primer are you using?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20200	From: hooligan	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Yup ! That's for true John ! There wasn't Imron then . Enamels or lacquers ? Freight cars weren't shiny , new and clean ? Not shiny . Unless you added varnishes ? That's how it was in the old days HH --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Yeah but you youngin's don't remember the days of dead flat freight cars > back in the just post war years. I agree that modern trains and even the > early stuff were basically shiny with dirt but not freight equipment. Even > if left the paint shop in a semi gloss state it didn't last very long with > the paint of the era. Rarely did I see a even remotely shiny freight loco, > car or caboose and if I did the build or rebuild dates were generally within > the year. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Mike Bauers > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:52 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting > > > > > > I've been using a paint other than Floquil for a long time now. > > Is the stuff still flat-finish and in need of an additive to have a > semi-gloss or glossy finish? Which I used to do. But then I discovered that > another brand of paint was much better for putting decals on it. I also > learned that starting from a glossy paint, decaling, and weathering over > that was very realistic; since all in the real world has some glossy paint > under it's coats of dirt and grime of operation. > > The exception is a very old piece of badly maintained equipment that wasn't > repainted for the last 20 years. Now -that- has flat, dead paint under all > of the peeling, rusting, and layered crud of the last 20 years.. > > Mike Bauers > > On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, lewis.ted16 wrote: > > > > > > > Well, thanks to everyone for their input and effort. The Ulrich hoppers > may not have been totally dry, as they were kept in a large toolbox in my > semi. Dry to the touch, but not all the way through. I have a Roundhouse > full of English, Pennline and Mantua engines that I intend to refinish over > the winter. Strip, scrub, pickle and prime will be the method. When I figure > out how to get good photos of them I'll post my progress. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@> wrote: > >> > >> On 9/16/2012 4:35 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote: > >>> I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil > >>> Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial > >>> on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an > >>> airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mike" <mwbauers55@> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of > >>> the surface. > >>>> What primer are you using? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20201	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

Granted I'm guessing here. But I've seen several pictures of mixed metal and wooden cars and the same paint that covers the car looks different on the metal and wooden parts. The metal looks shiny and the wood almost dull. I think the glossy type of paint simply protects better over time and while it soaks into the wood and looses much of its shine, it's a paint that hard coats itself and better protects whatever it is used on. I don't see people using a paint that will quickly chalk and wear off. That has to be foolish and quickly damaging to whatever gets painted. All paints are binders and vehicles with pigments mixed in to create the color. I can dig up paint formulas for the eras and they read something like using a base of a type of varnish as the base of the paint. Remember that in the early days you had paints and assorted washes like white wash. The paint was the blended durable stuff. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 17, 2012, at 11:13 PM, "hooligan" <long95209@...> wrote: > Yup ! That's for true John ! There wasn't Imron then . Enamels or lacquers ? Freight cars weren't shiny , new and clean ? Not shiny . Unless you added varnishes ? That's how it was in the old days HH > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: >> >> Yeah but you youngin's don't remember the days of dead flat freight cars >> back in the just post war years. I agree that modern trains and even the >> early stuff were basically shiny with dirt but not freight equipment. Even >> if left the paint shop in a semi gloss state it didn't last very long with >> the paint of the era. Rarely did I see a even remotely shiny freight loco, >> car or caboose and if I did the build or rebuild dates were generally within >> the year. >> >> >> >> John Hagen >> >> >> >> From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Mike Bauers >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:52 PM >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Die cast painting >> >> >> >> >> >> I've been using a paint other than Floquil for a long time now. >> >> Is the stuff still flat-finish and in need of an additive to have a >> semi-gloss or glossy finish? Which I used to do. But then I discovered that >> another brand of paint was much better for putting decals on it. I also >> learned that starting from a glossy paint, decaling, and weathering over >> that was very realistic; since all in the real world has some glossy paint >> under it's coats of dirt and grime of operation. >> >> The exception is a very old piece of badly maintained equipment that wasn't >> repainted for the last 20 years. Now -that- has flat, dead paint under all >> of the peeling, rusting, and layered crud of the last 20 years.. >> >> Mike Bauers >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, lewis.ted16 wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Well, thanks to everyone for their input and effort. The Ulrich hoppers >> may not have been totally dry, as they were kept in a large toolbox in my >> semi. Dry to the touch, but not all the way through. I have a Roundhouse >> full of English, Pennline and Mantua engines that I intend to refinish over >> the winter. Strip, scrub, pickle and prime will be the method. When I figure >> out how to get good photos of them I'll post my progress. >>> >>> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , >> "David J. Starr" <dstarrboston@> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 9/16/2012 4:35 PM, lewis.ted16 wrote: >>>>> I have not used a primer, except on some Ulrich hoppers. When Floquil >>>>> Black went over the primer, it melted the primer. A link to a tutorial >>>>> on diecast prep and painting would be helpful. I'm shopping for an >>>>> airbrush also. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mike" <mwbauers55@> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chipping is often caused by just plain wrong cleaning and priming of >>>>> the surface. >>>>>> What primer are you using? >> > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20202	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Die cast painting

From long ago, how to make your paint, note the basic ingredients of varnish and oil........... *********** from…….. ROOF AND SIDE-WALL PAINTING, 1879 [downloadable from Google Books] page 7, How to make English Gum Coating Paint and Cement, believed to he the best. Take a seven or eight gallon tin can. with mouth at least three inches in diameter; put into it four gallons of best raw linseed oil; put the can on a stove, and as soon as the oil begins to get warm, say lukewarm, stir into it one half gallon of good copal varnish, a pint of varnish to the gallon of oil; now stir in well the dry mineral,twenty or twenty-four pounds; that is, at the rate of five or six pounds to the gallon of oil. (If the paint is for a wall, where you desire to make two coats answer, you should put in at least eight pounds of dry mineral to the gallon of oil.) This should be so well stirred that there will be no lumps left in it, and before reaching the boiling point take it off the fire. After taking off, the stirring may be continued. You cannot mix it too well. How to make Mineral Paint. You need no fire or varnish ; and mix the oil and minerals in the proportions before given. As to the minerals to be used, there is scarcely any choice to be made on tlie ground of one lasting longer than another, if made and applied with the same care. And I give the names of a number : French ochre, dry. Cleveland iron paint, dry. Prince's metallic, dry. Richmond iron paint, dry. Pittsburgh iron paint,dry. Spanish brown,dry. Yellow ochre, dry. And numerous others. These minerals can be bought, at wholesale prices, from three-quarters of a cent to two cents a pound, and ought to retail in small quantities at three cents, or less. It ought to be noted here, that in warm climates—say south of Philadelphia—yellow or French ochre ought to be more generally used, for two reasons, viz.: 1st. Because it does not attract the same degree of heat that the red and dark colors do, and in warm weather the upper rooms of a house are cooler. 2d. Because the hotter the tin or metal becomes the more broken joints and greater wear and tear upon the roof, which is saved by using this light color. ********* some level of a glossy paint ......... Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20203	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Hobbytown Alco 2000HP road diesel for sale

Done as an Erie. in the original intact but worn box. Built Kit 101K powered A unit. Interior of box missing. Nice engine. email for pictures. $50 plus shipping at actual cost Thanks for looking Al Galli

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20204	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock

Jim, I sent the Bowser Mountain instructions out yesterday. The postage was minimal; no charge, glad to help you out. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20205	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: John English #5000 Pacifics

Does anyone know of a prototype for the #5000? ATSF 3400 Class are similar but domes are wrong.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20206	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: roadblock

Ray F W ,        I'll be watching for them. They will really clear things up for me. Many thanks                                                     Jim H On 9/18/2012 8:06 PM, erieberk@... wrote:   Jim, I sent the Bowser Mountain instructions out yesterday. The postage was minimal; no charge, glad to help you out. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20207	From: hooligan	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: John English #5000 Pacifics

Hello Ted , The prototype for John English's # 5000 kit is New York Central K11 . Lots of Photos a fallenflags website [Geo. Elwood]. Henry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know of a prototype for the #5000? ATSF 3400 Class are similar but domes are wrong. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20208	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Won ebay item

I won a steam engine on eBay tonight and think I got a real good price. While the tender is plastic I believe the paint chip off the Cab is showing brass. No matter it's called Mystery HO 2-6-0 ( Really look like 4-6-0 ) #501 die cast loco Number is 180969843571 It was strange bidding on it because I think eBay had some kind of trouble. I first thought it was pulled off because you couldn't bring the page up showing the item. Then I found it by using that red crusader seller who was selling both items plus others. I bid and got it for $52.12 including shipping. I see now if you put the number in it comes up as bidding ended but small picture but you have to click on it and it shows other items you might be interested in. Just page down and you will find the full size picture and information about the engine I won. It also has a number of views you can look at. I bought it while I wait for the original plans to come from Ray F W for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English Bowser of Montoursville PA so I can see how the leading and trailing truck where attached and a picture of the valve gear and eccentrics. Then I will have to search for the parts if I can't create them Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20209	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

Jim, I can't wait to hear your report on this one. I checked the auction and it really looks interesting. I also like the proportions and style of the locomotive. Good going, Dennis At 07:06 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: > I won a steam engine on eBay tonight and think I got a real good >price. While the tender is plastic I believe the paint chip off the Cab >is showing brass. No matter it's called Mystery HO 2-6-0 ( Really look >like 4-6-0 ) #501 die cast loco Number is 180969843571 It was strange >bidding on it because I think eBay had some kind of trouble. I first >thought it was pulled off because you couldn't bring the page up showing >the item. Then I found it by using that red crusader seller who was >selling both items plus others. I bid and got it for $52.12 including >shipping. I see now if you put the number in it comes up as bidding >ended but small picture but you have to click on it and it shows other >items you might be interested in. Just page down and you will find the >full size picture and information about the engine I won. It also has a >number of views you can look at. > > I bought it while I wait for the original plans to come from Ray F >W for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English Bowser of Montoursville PA >so I can see how the leading and trailing truck where attached and a >picture of the valve gear and eccentrics. Then I will have to search for >the parts if I can't create them > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20210	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

Yes.  You can click on the photo of an ended item to see the original listing.  Just above that photo, and below the title, is the link "see original listing" which does the same thing.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:06 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Won ebay item   I won a steam engine on eBay tonight and think I got a real good price. While the tender is plastic I believe the paint chip off the Cab is showing brass. No matter it's called Mystery HO 2-6-0 ( Really look like 4-6-0 ) #501 die cast loco Number is 180969843571 It was strange bidding on it because I think eBay had some kind of trouble. I first thought it was pulled off because you couldn't bring the page up showing the item. Then I found it by using that red crusader seller who was selling both items plus others. I bid and got it for $52.12 including shipping. I see now if you put the number in it comes up as bidding ended but small picture but you have to click on it and it shows other items you might be interested in. Just page down and you will find the full size picture and information about the engine I won. It also has a number of views you can look at. I bought it while I wait for the original plans to come from Ray F W for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English Bowser of Montoursville PA so I can see how the leading and trailing truck where attached and a picture of the valve gear and eccentrics. Then I will have to search for the parts if I can't create them Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20211	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

Hi Jim, It looks to me like you got a REALLY good deal.   The locomotive is likely a cast metal one with brass cab and fittings.  The stack and other things are brass, but you will be able to tell once you receive it.  The tender does not look plastic , but in one of the the photos it looks like embossed brass.  In any case, you did really good.  Tell us more once you receive it. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:06:48 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Won ebay item   I won a steam engine on eBay tonight and think I got a real good price. While the tender is plastic I believe the paint chip off the Cab is showing brass. No matter it's called Mystery HO 2-6-0 ( Really look like 4-6-0 ) #501 die cast loco Number is 180969843571 It was strange bidding on it because I think eBay had some kind of trouble. I first thought it was pulled off because you couldn't bring the page up showing the item. Then I found it by using that red crusader seller who was selling both items plus others. I bid and got it for $52.12 including shipping. I see now if you put the number in it comes up as bidding ended but small picture but you have to click on it and it shows other items you might be interested in. Just page down and you will find the full size picture and information about the engine I won. It also has a number of views you can look at. I bought it while I wait for the original plans to come from Ray F W for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English Bowser of Montoursville PA so I can see how the leading and trailing truck where attached and a picture of the valve gear and eccentrics. Then I will have to search for the parts if I can't create them Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20212	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

Jim,   That is a very interesting loco. Some kind of a kitbash using a Mantua Pacific frame and valve gear with smaller drivers. Not sure what drivers, maybe from a Mikado? You may have to replace the center axle as the gauge on it looks narrow and the right side driver is already out past the axle end. Should be a normal Mantua axle. It’ll be interesting to find out more once you get it in your hands. The boiler could be diecast and the tender could be anything. Nice buy.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:38 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Won ebay item     Hi Jim, It looks to me like you got a REALLY good deal.   The locomotive is likely a cast metal one with brass cab and fittings.  The stack and other things are brass, but you will be able to tell once you receive it.  The tender does not look plastic , but in one of the the photos it looks like embossed brass.  In any case, you did really good.  Tell us more once you receive it. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:06:48 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Won ebay item   I won a steam engine on eBay tonight and think I got a real good price. While the tender is plastic I believe the paint chip off the Cab is showing brass. No matter it's called Mystery HO 2-6-0 ( Really look like 4-6-0 ) #501 die cast loco Number is 180969843571 It was strange bidding on it because I think eBay had some kind of trouble. I first thought it was pulled off because you couldn't bring the page up showing the item. Then I found it by using that red crusader seller who was selling both items plus others. I bid and got it for $52.12 including shipping. I see now if you put the number in it comes up as bidding ended but small picture but you have to click on it and it shows other items you might be interested in. Just page down and you will find the full size picture and information about the engine I won. It also has a number of views you can look at. I bought it while I wait for the original plans to come from Ray F W for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English Bowser of Montoursville PA so I can see how the leading and trailing truck where attached and a picture of the valve gear and eccentrics. Then I will have to search for the parts if I can't create them Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20213	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: eBay item

John H, Chuck K, Victor B, Dennis T, I had a hard time yesterday trying to get the item to bid on but did get it in. It didn't come up every time I put the number in and still today it doesn't come up every time. Today I finally got it and really examined it closer. While I will wait for it to arrive things I see are a Mantua valve gear and maybe frame. The cab is brass but can't tell what the boiler is. Other things I see are if you look at a shot of the front the ladders don't touch the pilot and look a little further back the boiler is not sitting in the cylinder saddle. Yes the middle driver is a different width then the other two sets and most likely has a problem. A good size gap. Another project to fool with till I get the paperwork from Ray F W to see what's needed for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English. Have to find out what that Kemtron Camelback went for. I was going to bid on it but with the eBay problem I wasn't sure if it would go through just like the engine I won. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20214	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

As for bringing up an ended item on eBay -- with using the eBay number of course -- I'm very often getting the message from eBay lately saying that This item has been removed or is no longer available (or words to that effect), as of about two weeks now. This will also happen when I want to check back on an item that I've won. Of course, I can always go the "My eBay' on the eBay site and bring up my Buy history for my own wins but that's an extra few steps. Was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this same thing. Ray F W</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20215	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item

Jim,   The camelback sold for $103.27. Pretty decent price for it. I thought it would of brought a bit more.   I see the Toonerville Trolley went for $560.00! Damn collectors driving up the prices on the things I want to collect. Considering they only went for $11.50 (plus $25.00 for the power truck) back in 1954 I guess I should have got one then. But that would have been a lot of money for an eleven year old back then even without the power truck. That said I did manage to come up with $14.95 for a Mantua Sharknose in about the same time period.   John Hagen     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:04 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] eBay item     John H, Chuck K, Victor B, Dennis T, I had a hard time yesterday trying to get the item to bid on but did get it in. It didn't come up every time I put the number in and still today it doesn't come up every time. Today I finally got it and really examined it closer. While I will wait for it to arrive things I see are a Mantua valve gear and maybe frame. The cab is brass but can't tell what the boiler is. Other things I see are if you look at a shot of the front the ladders don't touch the pilot and look a little further back the boiler is not sitting in the cylinder saddle. Yes the middle driver is a different width then the other two sets and most likely has a problem. A good size gap. Another project to fool with till I get the paperwork from Ray F W to see what's needed for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English. Have to find out what that Kemtron Camelback went for. I was going to bid on it but with the eBay problem I wasn't sure if it would go through just like the engine I won. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20216	From: Watermans	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

Looks like brass to me - can't beat it for $50. I would also recommend finding a 4 wheel lead truck as well. Looks like a Penn Line 2 wheeler there now. Good luck with it Jim, I'm sure it will be another winner. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20217	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item

Jim, I had some issues bringing up the item at first too. It's finds like this that make me want to get back into eBay! On the other hand, I already have enough projects to work on here at home! Looking forward to seeing you work your magic on this, Jim! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 9/19/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] eBay item To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 11:04 AM   John H, Chuck K, Victor B, Dennis T, I had a hard time yesterday trying to get the item to bid on but did get it in. It didn't come up every time I put the number in and still today it doesn't come up every time. Today I finally got it and really examined it closer. While I will wait for it to arrive things I see are a Mantua valve gear and maybe frame. The cab is brass but can't tell what the boiler is. Other things I see are if you look at a shot of the front the ladders don't touch the pilot and look a little further back the boiler is not sitting in the cylinder saddle. Yes the middle driver is a different width then the other two sets and most likely has a problem. A good size gap. Another project to fool with till I get the paperwork from Ray F W to see what's needed for my early Bowser Mountain by Lew English. Have to find out what that Kemtron Camelback went for. I was going to bid on it but with the eBay problem I wasn't sure if it would go through just like the engine I won. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20218	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Won ebay item

I saw the same thing.  I re-entered the number and tried again, and then it worked.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Won ebay item   As for bringing up an ended item on eBay -- with using the eBay number of course -- I'm very often getting the message from eBay lately saying that This item has been removed or is no longer available (or words to that effect), as of about two weeks now. This will also happen when I want to check back on an item that I've won. Of course, I can always go the "My eBay' on the eBay site and bring up my Buy history for my own wins but that's an extra few steps. Was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this same thing. Ray F W</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item

I settle for snagging pictures of the Toonerville from the auctions. Those new highs are amazing! I'm about to put into practice a theory of mine that it's better to buy tools to make models very much like I would like to buy, instead of paying outrageous amounts for a model. So I'm working in some pricy and yet in my budget tools. For not much more than what that Toonerville sold for, you can buy a cheap laser cutter. I've saved for a better one and on the list is my own Toonerville made for the cost of the material. [I'll ignore the price of my tool since I might like to have a few Toonervilles running around...] I'm surprised we haven't seen any 3d printed Toonervilles,.... Yet..... Mike Bauers On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:15 PM, John Hagen wrote: Jim,   The camelback sold for $103.27. Pretty decent price for it. I thought it would of brought a bit more.   I see the Toonerville Trolley went for $560.00! Damn collectors driving up the prices on the things I want to collect. Considering they only went for $11.50 (plus $25.00 for the power truck) back in 1954 I guess I should have got one then. But that would have been a lot of money for an eleven year old back then even without the power truck. That said I did manage to come up with $14.95 for a Mantua Sharknose in about the same time period.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20220	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item

Anyone know what the recent Penn Line Crusader went for, which started out at $200? Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20221	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item

$736.53.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] eBay item     Anyone know what the recent Penn Line Crusader went for, which started out at $200? Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20222	From: Mike	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: eBay item

That's rather modest compared to one that sold for $2,000 on 9-11. Maybe someone should counterfeit them???? Mike Bauers , on da phone,.. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > $736.53. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of erieberk@... > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:58 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] eBay item > > > > > > Anyone know what the recent Penn Line Crusader went for, which started out > at $200? > > Ray F. W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20223	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: latest eBay engine came

Attachments : IMG_8506_1.JPG IMG_8505_1.JPG IMG_8504_1.JPG IMG_8503_1.JPG IMG_8502_1.JPG The 2-6-0 ( I think should be 4-6-0 ) came today. I can't believe how fast it got here. Mailed from Florida on the 19th and arrived in PA the 21st. Started to take some apart and believe it was dropped on the pilot area. The boiler is split were the screw goes to hold the frame, cylinder saddle and boiler ( and maybe a 4 wheel lead truck ) together. Frame, valve gear, motor, side and main rods look Mantua. I don't know whose drivers yet but have to find out because one driver on the geared set has the center "wore" out. The brass cab / boiler has been modified to mesh with the frame. Front of pilot is broke off but is modified at the front of the frame to take the whole pilot. It might be brass as I have not scratched it to see. Cab has brass window inserts and back of frame has an added part to rest and screw the Cab on. As for the tender it is a plastic body on a metal or brass frame that has Japan stamped on the bottom. The tender body reminds me of the Rivarossi 0-8-0 tender with a brass piece added at the back of the coal bin. I have to clean up everything with brake fluid to the bare bones to check better. Will take the rest apart tomorrow and put it in the soup. Then I'll be able to measure the bad driver and hopefully figure what it is. Doubt I'll be able to fix it so I'll have to get one and quarter it or get the entire geared set. Oh well another project to consume some time while I wait for parts from Bowser to finish my early Lew English Bowser Mountain.. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20224	From: nico	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Vintage HO Favorites

Okay, so trainguru's at it again, and this time, it's a subject we can all talk with nothing but good intentions... our favorites! For me I love the Inter-War/Transition era; the designs were brash, powerful, useful, and said "Conventionality, belongs somewhat to yesterday!" My list for what I'd like to see running on my pike (a pike of almost nothing but the classics), goes as follows: Varney Streamliner 4-6-4 Penn Line Crusader Penn Line T-1 Mantua Die-Cast BLW RF-16 What makes your pike list? Please tell about them, and if anybody has any of my list for sale, I'd be intersted.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20225	From: Watermans	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

My picks Trackside Specialties P5 and B-1 electrics (my dad produced them) - I only have the later Alco Models brass versions - Jim Heckard has some fine representatives. Schrader New Haven EP4 Wilton C&O Allegheny Penn Line Crusader and T-1, Cary boilered I-1 Varney Aerotrain International Models P5 Streamlined (I'm a bit of an electric fan, can you tell?) Rivarossi Milwaukee Hiawatha (big dreamer) Varney streamliner (got that one) Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20226	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

Had to think about it a bit last night, but here is what I had figured: A whole roundhouse full of the "everymans" locomotives. The type that a lot of people actually had on their layouts. This means Mantua Mikados and Pacifics, branch lines operated using Varney Casey Jones and Old Ladies (Or would the plural in this case be Ladys?). Switching done with Varney docksiders and Mantua 0-4-0s. Heavy switching done with Mantua and Gilbert 0-6-0s. Perhaps a few John  English Mikado and Pacifics floating around too. Walthers passenger equipment for mainline operation, with Varney paper and wood utility coaches for the branch lines and suburban service. No particular make for freight cars, but Mantua loop couplers would be preferred. I've often dreamed of building something like Miniature Wonderland, but with all vintage equipment and operating systems. This means no computer controlled lines, no DCC, just toggles and relays running the system! That would be a neat tourist attraction somewhere I think. Perhaps someday I could move to Northern Wisconsin as I've often wanted to, and build it. I suppose I can at least dream of it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 9/22/12, nico <trainguru@...> wrote: From: nico <trainguru@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage HO Favorites To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 22, 2012, 10:26 AM   Okay, so trainguru's at it again, and this time, it's a subject we can all talk with nothing but good intentions... our favorites! For me I love the Inter-War/Transition era; the designs were brash, powerful, useful, and said "Conventionality, belongs somewhat to yesterday!" My list for what I'd like to see running on my pike (a pike of almost nothing but the classics), goes as follows: Varney Streamliner 4-6-4 Penn Line Crusader Penn Line T-1 Mantua Die-Cast BLW RF-16 What makes your pike list? Please tell about them, and if anybody has any of my list for sale, I'd be intersted.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20227	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: vintage ho favorites.

I am very lucky to have a large vintage collection and have 95% of the engines that members have mentioned plus a lot more. I am still looking for two engines I would like to have. Walthers 4-6-4 Baltic Rivarossi 4-4-2 factory painted Hiawatha ( pricey ) Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20228	From: maryinvt2	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

I can tell you're a senior like me by the use of the term "pike". This is not a criticism of you but just my dislike of that word to describe a layout. Even when I was a kid in the 40's and 50's there was something distasteful about the word pike. Even today I refuse to use it, preferring the word "layout" to describe something to run trains on. Where did "pike" come from, anybody know? Getting to the subject, I'm a "basher" and a fanatic when it comes to the running quality of locomotives. I like to kit-bash an engine into something that isn't available commercially or is too expensive for my pocketbook and my engines MUST run smooth and quiet. I must admit that making them run well is sometimes an almost impossible task when it comes to my retirement budget. Of course, if I could afford to put a nice NWSL gear box in those "bad boys", my criteria would be more easily met. (sigh) But this is not the case. As an example, I have been on a kick for several years now to figure out how to make Mantua switchers run like brass locos. Believe me, I have tried everything. The strange thing about these little guys is that every now and then I will come across one that does run nice and quiet and smooth. After taking the little devil apart and literally going over it with an eye loupe in an attempt to find its secret, I am no further ahead but I have developed some conclusions along the way. For one thing, Mantua's little white or black worms are molded as well as are their axle gears and this is not as precise a method of manufacturing a gear as turning them would be which is the way NWSL makes their gears. The other thing concerns the motor. I would love to be able to place a can motor in a Mantua switcher but that is not so easily done. The main drawback is that it takes a small motor (width not more than a half inch) and one with a long shaft so that the worm can reach the axle gear. Because of these limitations I have concentrated my efforts on trying to find ways of utilizing Mantua's stock motor. Recently I found out that NWSL is now making a kit for the switchers which consists of both worm and axle gears with a can motor but this is too expense for me. I did find out that they will sell the gears separately which is what I am now looking into. By the way, I have tried the "Helix Humper" assembly but that did not solve the noise problem for me. Hope to get some discussion going on with experiences you fellows have had. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nico" <trainguru@...> wrote: > > Okay, so trainguru's at it again, and this time, it's a subject we can all talk with nothing but good intentions... our favorites! For me I love the Inter-War/Transition era; the designs were brash, powerful, useful, and said "Conventionality, belongs somewhat to yesterday!" My list for what I'd like to see running on my pike (a pike of almost nothing but the classics), goes as follows: > > Varney Streamliner 4-6-4 > > Penn Line Crusader > > Penn Line T-1 > > Mantua Die-Cast BLW RF-16 > > What makes your pike list? Please tell about them, and if anybody has any of my list for sale, I'd be interested. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20229	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

I have little doubt that the term "pike" in reference to a railroad (both model and full scale) stems from the early transfer of freight from a turnpike--where charges incurred--to that of a new kind of road with similar charges--hence, a "pike" with rails. An article referring to that exact scenario is available on line where a reference to distillers transferring their product from a turnpike to the Philadelphia and Columbia RR is discussed. In any case I am also a senior and I remember my brothers using the term "pike" for travel down any road in a broad or even philosophical sense. "I know you will grow up somewhere down the pike." And of course we know that the world "turnpike" originates from the era when roads charged a fee for use and the pike or pole was turned aside upon payment of the toll to permit the traveler to pass onto the road. Art W   In a message dated 9/23/2012 1:56:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rh@... writes: I can tell you're a senior like me by the use of the term "pike". This is not a criticism of you but just my dislike of that word to describe a layout. Even when I was a kid in the 40's and 50's there was something distasteful about the word pike. Even today I refuse to use it, preferring the word "layout" to describe something to run trains on. Where did "pike" come from, anybody know? Getting to the subject, I'm a "basher" and a fanatic when it comes to the running quality of locomotives. I like to kit-bash an engine into something that isn't available commercially or is too expensive for my pocketbook and my engines MUST run smooth and quiet. I must admit that making them run well is sometimes an almost impossible task when it comes to my retirement budget. Of course, if I could afford to put a nice NWSL gear box in those "bad boys", my criteria would be more easily met. (sigh) But this is not the case. As an example, I have been on a kick for several years now to figure out how to make Mantua switchers run like brass locos. Believe me, I have tried everything. The strange thing about these little guys is that every now and then I will come across one that does run nice and quiet and smooth. After taking the little devil apart and literally going over it with an eye loupe in an attempt to find its secret, I am no further ahead but I have developed some co nclusions along the way. For one thing, Mantua's little white or black worms are molded as well as are their axle gears and this is not as precise a method of manufacturing a gear as turning them would be which is the way NWSL makes their gears. The other thing concerns the motor. I would love to be able to place a can motor in a Mantua switcher but that is not so easily done. The main drawback is that it takes a small motor (width not more than a half inch) and one with a long shaft so that the worm can reach the axle gear. Because of these limitations I have concentrated my efforts on trying to find ways of utilizing Mantua's stock motor. Recently I found out that NWSL is now making a kit for the switchers which consists of both worm and axle gears with a can motor but this is too expense for me. I did find out that they will sell the gears separately which is what I am now looking into. By the way, I have tried the "Helix Humper" assembly but that did not solve the noise problem for me. Hope to get some discussion going on with experiences you fellows have had. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nico" <trainguru@...> wrote: > > Okay, so trainguru's at it again, and this time, it's a subject we can all talk with nothing but good intentions... our favorites! For me I love the Inter-War/Transition era; the designs were brash, powerful, useful, and said "Conventionality, belongs somewhat to yesterday!" My list for what I'd like to see running on my pike (a pike of almost nothing but the classics), goes as follows: > > Varney Streamliner 4-6-4 > > Penn Line Crusader > > Penn Line T-1 > > Mantua Die-Cast BLW RF-16 > > What makes your pike list? Please tell about them, and if anybody has any of my list for sale, I'd be interested. > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20230	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

I am not at all sure where the term Pike came from but it was used extensively in the 1930's and into the 1950's.  I have a similar dislike for the term "Layout".  That term was derived from get together's where affluent owners of toy trains would "lay them out" sometimes on tables and sometimes on the floor for their guests to examine.  There are images in old magazines of such group gatherings.  After the party the items would be picked up, reboxed and stored until the next event.  When someone tells me they have a layout I ask them where do you store all the stuff when you pick it up.   Except for a Lionel train under the tree at Christmas, I don't do layouts.  I do model railroads.  I do take offense to the term layout and have made my dislike known to notables such as Allen Keller who insists on degrading extensive model railroads such as the F&SM with the term "Layout Tour".  I have also made my feelings about this known to members of the NMRA who call their tours layout tours.  I want to see model railroads.  As far as I'm concerned, Layouts are for kids or under the Christmas tree.   Got to watch that last step off the soap box! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "maryinvt2" <rh@...> wrote: > > I can tell you're a senior like me by the use of the term "pike". This is not a criticism of you but just my dislike of that word to describe a layout. Even when I was a kid in the 40's and 50's there was something distasteful about the word pike. Even today I refuse to use it, preferring the word "layout" to describe something to run trains on. Where did "pike" come from, anybody know? > > Getting to the subject, I'm a "basher" and a fanatic when it comes to the running quality of locomotives. I like to kit-bash an engine into something that isn't available commercially or is too expensive for my pocketbook and my engines MUST run smooth and quiet. I must admit that making them run well is sometimes an almost impossible task when it comes to my retirement budget. Of course, if I could afford to put a nice NWSL gear box in those "bad boys", my criteria would be more easily met. (sigh) But this is not the case. As an example, I have been on a kick for several years now to figure out how to make Mantua switchers run like brass locos. Believe me, I have tried everything. The strange thing about these little guys is that every now and then I will come across one that does run nice and quiet and smooth. After taking the little devil apart and literally going over it with an eye loupe in an attempt to find its secret, I am no further ahead but I have developed some conclusions along the way. > > For one thing, Mantua's little white or black worms are molded as well as are their axle gears and this is not as precise a method of manufacturing a gear as turning them would be which is the way NWSL makes their gears. The other thing concerns the motor. I would love to be able to place a can motor in a Mantua switcher but that is not so easily done. The main drawback is that it takes a small motor (width not more than a half inch) and one with a long shaft so that the worm can reach the axle gear. Because of these limitations I have concentrated my efforts on trying to find ways of utilizing Mantua's stock motor. > > Recently I found out that NWSL is now making a kit for the switchers which consists of both > worm and axle gears with a can motor but this is too expense for me. I did find out that they will sell the gears separately which is what I am now looking into. By the way, I have tried the "Helix Humper" assembly but that did not solve the noise problem for me. Hope to get some discussion going on with experiences you fellows have had. > Richard in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nico" trainguru@ wrote: > > > > Okay, so trainguru's at it again, and this time, it's a subject we can all talk with nothing but good intentions... our favorites! For me I love the Inter-War/Transition era; the designs were brash, powerful, useful, and said "Conventionality, belongs somewhat to yesterday!" My list for what I'd like to see running on my pike (a pike of almost nothing but the classics), goes as follows: > > > > Varney Streamliner 4-6-4 > > > > Penn Line Crusader > > > > Penn Line T-1 > > > > Mantua Die-Cast BLW RF-16 > > > > What makes your pike list? Please tell about them, and if anybody has any of my list for sale, I'd be interested. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20231	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

Denny, "Offensive"??????? That should be the most offensive statement in your life. If it is, you are a very lucky man. [Aside:  Why is everyone so easily "offended"? Do we like to raise our blood pressures? Do we derive some sadomasochistic pleasure in telling someone off?] "Pike", "layout", "model railroad", it really is unimportant, especially if it is going to effect one's health or one's friendships. Model railroading supposed to be fun, isn't it? Walter On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:20 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I am not at all sure where the term Pike came from but it was used extensively in the 1930's and into the 1950's.  I have a similar dislike for the term "Layout".  That term was derived from get together's where affluent owners of toy trains would "lay them out" sometimes on tables and sometimes on the floor for their guests to examine.  There are images in old magazines of such group gatherings.  After the party the items would be picked up, reboxed and stored until the next event.  When someone tells me they have a layout I ask them where do you store all the stuff when you pick it up.   Except for a Lionel train under the tree at Christmas, I don't do layouts.  I do model railroads.  I do take offense to the term layout and have made my dislike known to notables such as Allen Keller who insists on degrading extensive model railroads such as the F&SM with the term "Layout Tour".  I have also made my feelings about this known to members of the NMRA who call their tours layout tours.  I want to see model railroads.  As far as I'm concerned, Layouts are for kids or under the Christmas tree.   Got to watch that last step off the soap box! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20232	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

The term I use varies with my audience. If around non-railroaders (Model railroaders, that is), I use the term layout or maybe railroad tabletop. Depends how much of the concept of model railroading I believe they can grasp at a time. Being in the IT field, doing PC sales and repairs for the private sector through my own shop, I've learned a great deal about "user friendly" terms. Often have to swallow my pride a bit when I call my railroad a "tabletop", but if that gets the idea across, then so be it. Around my fellow railroader, I call it "My railroad". Sometimes even "My world", as it often serves as a therapy tool for me (I have PTSD and am often finding myself burned out with the current state of the "real" world), and more or less like to jump into my miniature world to escape the nonsense out there. If anyone has been to Waukegan, Illinois - near the Great Lakes Navel Training Center - you probably know what I mean here. But generally, being fourth generation of Lionel O gauge railroader in the family, and having an O gauge railroad at my dad's house nearby, I use the term for it that he used around me when I was a kid: "Layout". A rose by any other name smells just as sweet. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 9/23/12, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage HO Favorites To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 23, 2012, 4:59 PM   Denny, "Offensive"??????? That should be the most offensive statement in your life. If it is, you are a very lucky man. [Aside:  Why is everyone so easily "offended"? Do we like to raise our blood pressures? Do we derive some sadomasochistic pleasure in telling someone off?] "Pike", "layout", "model railroad", it really is unimportant, especially if it is going to effect one's health or one's friendships. Model railroading supposed to be fun, isn't it? Walter On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:20 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I am not at all sure where the term Pike came from but it was used extensively in the 1930's and into the 1950's.  I have a similar dislike for the term "Layout".  That term was derived from get together's where affluent owners of toy trains would "lay them out" sometimes on tables and sometimes on the floor for their guests to examine.  There are images in old magazines of such group gatherings.  After the party the items would be picked up, reboxed and stored until the next event.  When someone tells me they have a layout I ask them where do you store all the stuff when you pick it up.   Except for a Lionel train under the tree at Christmas, I don't do layouts.  I do model railroads.  I do take offense to the term layout and have made my dislike known to notables such as Allen Keller who insists on degrading extensive model railroads such as the F&SM with the term "Layout Tour".  I have also made my feelings about this known to members of the NMRA who call their tours layout tours.  I want to see model railroads.  As far as I'm concerned, Layouts are for kids or under the Christmas tree.   Got to watch that last step off the soap box! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20233	From: cwrailman	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Around my fellow railroader, I call it "My railroad". Sometimes even "My world", as it often serves as a therapy tool for me (I have PTSD and am often finding myself burned out with the current state of the "real" world), and more or less like to jump into my miniature world to escape the nonsense out there. If anyone has been to Waukegan, Illinois - near the Great Lakes Navel Training Center - you probably know what I mean here. > > -Steve Neubaum Steve, I have a friend who is a psychologist and he has interviewed a few model railroaders and what you describe is a common trait he found in all of the model railroaders he interviewed.  Ironically I have another psychologist friend, now retired, who lives on the opposite side of the country who says almost the same.       Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20234	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

Everyone needs, and is "entitled" to, a little "escapism". It refreshes the spirit, doesn't it? Walter On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:04 PM, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Around my fellow railroader, I call it "My railroad". Sometimes even "My world", as it often serves as a therapy tool for me (I have PTSD and am often finding myself burned out with the current state of the "real" world), and more or less like to jump into my miniature world to escape the nonsense out there. If anyone has been to Waukegan, Illinois - near the Great Lakes Navel Training Center - you probably know what I mean here. > > -Steve Neubaum Steve, I have a friend who is a psychologist and he has interviewed a few model railroaders and what you describe is a common trait he found in all of the model railroaders he interviewed.  Ironically I have another psychologist friend, now retired, who lives on the opposite side of the country who says almost the same.       Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20235	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

Denny, Throw into the mix that I have a form of Autism called Aspergers Syndrome. Was reading at age 2, fixing Lionel motors at age 4, took apart my first computer and rebuilt that at age 5 or 6. Always had a mind for mechanical and electronic things. Was the teachers pet in school that did not care what other kids thought; I was happy in the evenings building and fixing things. Been doing it all my life, and to go outside, and see people acting so incredibly STUPID, it makes my railroad a place to escape to. Stupid not allowed in this world, nor is the kind of nonsense I deal with day to day. At my workbench in the evenings, I play my old 78 RPM records, work on a repair or restoration project, and want to forget about the modern era and all its ills. Model railroading is literally a lifesaver for me. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 9/23/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage HO Favorites To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 23, 2012, 7:04 PM   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Around my fellow railroader, I call it "My railroad". Sometimes even "My world", as it often serves as a therapy tool for me (I have PTSD and am often finding myself burned out with the current state of the "real" world), and more or less like to jump into my miniature world to escape the nonsense out there. If anyone has been to Waukegan, Illinois - near the Great Lakes Navel Training Center - you probably know what I mean here. > > -Steve Neubaum Steve, I have a friend who is a psychologist and he has interviewed a few model railroaders and what you describe is a common trait he found in all of the model railroaders he interviewed.  Ironically I have another psychologist friend, now retired, who lives on the opposite side of the country who says almost the same.       Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20236	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage HO Favorites

Many years ago, while living in Altoona, PA... I was introduced to the world of Vintage HO. My son had been given an inexpensive HO set for the Holidays, and needless to say... It did not perform very well. We ventured to the local Hobby Shop to remedy this... and that is where my adventures in HO Model Railroading began. I learned about the long history of the Hobby, and became fascinated with early die cast Diesels made by John English, Hobbytown, and Varney. I traveled across the country frequently back then, often with my son... and we would stop at any location, such as Antique Malls, Swap Meets, and of course Hobby Shops that might offer any items of interest. Along the way, I started picking up early Globe kits, and Athearn Hi F drive locos, which at the time... seemed to be everywhere. I was fascinated, but resisted Steam Locomotives for a long time... mostly because I was afraid to work on them... but once I came across my first Die Cast Steam Loco, ( A John English Pacific ), I was hooked. I started collecting Mantuas, Varneys, a Bowser here and there... and any oddball variety of Locomotive that caught my eye. Over the years, I have been fortunate enough to have either owned, or seen in person many of the Locomotives discussed on these pages. I try to keep my modeling based around the Transition Era, so that I can make the excuse for both Steam and Diesel. My preference leans toward Mantua for Steam, and Varney for Diesel. Both of those are good bases for modeling, and are easy to find parts for and are easy to keep running well. I use Hobbytown drives as well, but don't use them as daily runners. I'll stack up some Hi F's once in a while, for people who have never seen them, and let them fly around an oval of track... They're great runners when paired, if you don't mind the speed. I have a Penn Line T1 in the box, unbuilt... that will be my next project... if I ever get up the nerve to build it. Most of the pieces that I have, or have had... were wrecks that I bought at shows. I'm basically a modeler, and enjoy getting lost in the practice of sitting at my workbench restoring pieces that sometimes are as old as I am, and seeing them run once again.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20237	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Odd Brass Diesel to me

> > > I was going through eBay and found an odd Brass Diesel to me. > I was thinking on bidding on it but made in 80 not for my vintage > collection and it doesn't look to need rebuilding so I won't be > bidding. Although I don't like to tell about eBay item since some one > might be bidding but I think people should see this. Go to > 320985352023 Vintage Brass HO SAM ( Korea ) 4-6-6-4 ( not GG-1 ) > long Diesel Loco > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20238	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Odd Brass Diesel to me

Some history on the prototype... The summary... Union Pacific Steam Turbine Locomotives In 1938 General Electric built a pair of steam-turbine-electric locomotives for use on the Union Pacific in an attempt to compete with General Motors passenger diesels. The wheel arrangement of these two locomotives was 2-C+C-2. The UP ran them on a few test trips and sent them around the country on a publicity tour. However, they were only "operational" for 6 months before returning to GE. Subsequently, they did some work for the GN and NYC during the war but it was deemed that they would be more useful as raw material and were scrapped. These were the only two condensing steam locomotives built and operated in North America and were engineering triumphs but again practical failures. If anyone here wins it, I'd like to somehow get more pictures of her. I'm one of the bidders on her and if I don't win her, I'd like to make cutting patterns , build a pair for myself and make a semi-kit available for others. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: >> >> >> I was going through eBay and found an odd Brass Diesel to me. >> I was thinking on bidding on it but made in 80 not for my vintage >> collection and it doesn't look to need rebuilding so I won't be >> bidding. Although I don't like to tell about eBay item since some one >> might be bidding but I think people should see this. Go to >> 320985352023 Vintage Brass HO SAM ( Korea ) 4-6-6-4 ( not GG-1 ) >> long Diesel Loco >> >> Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20239	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Odd Brass Diesel to me

On 9/24/2012 3:59 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> >> I was going through eBay and found an odd Brass Diesel to me. >> I was thinking on bidding on it but made in 80 not for my vintage >> collection and it doesn't look to need rebuilding so I won't be >> bidding. Although I don't like to tell about eBay item since some one >> might be bidding but I think people should see this. Go to >> 320985352023 Vintage Brass HO SAM ( Korea ) 4-6-6-4 ( not GG-1 ) >> long Diesel Loco >> >> Jim H As Mike mentioned, that's UP No. 800, the original 5000- HP coal turbine. As far as the model itself, that is most likely a "Westside" import from the late 1970's Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20240	From: Chris B	Date: 9/25/2012
Subject: Fw: Vintage HO favorites

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Christopher.Brannigan@... <Christopher.Brannigan@...>; To: <chrisb_acw_rr@...>; Subject: Vintage HO favorites Sent: Tue, Sep 25, 2012 12:40:25 PM Denny, I'd like to add one vote for personal massive escapism into vintage HO model railroading; one admission into referring to my very permanent multi-level model railroad that's several years along towards completion as a "vintage HO layout"; and one reference to a vintage MR cartoon that took the escapism benefit of model railroading off a (IMHO) very funny cliff. My model railroad is based on a local prototype, the Washington & Old Dominion; it's roadbed later became both the first few miles of Rt 66; and one of the earliest and longest rail-to-trail parks, running over 40 miles from just outside Washington DC to Leesburg VA; some of that roadbed was first built in the late 1850's, so it's a vintage prototype, for my vintage model railroad. As I've described in previous posts, my vintage roster is all metal, either brass or diecast, my trackage is currently vintage steel Life-like flex track, to be replaced eventually with Tenshodo and Tru Scale track and turnouts that will be operated with diecast whitemetal ground-throws; all powered by vintage DC power supplies; no DCC, no sound, no paint or decals or scenery, just hardwood and natural finish metal in sight. (I don't call it a vintage HO model railroad because it looks and runs like other model railroads that resemble or replicate those built when Varney and Mantua were on top of the hobby; though to me those would be a more accurate use of the term; I call it that because the models and the track are from the vintage HO era, and because I'm trying to maintain a certain standard of trying to model the prototype railroad as it appeared in the 1939-1968 era with models and trackage that was available during that same era.) To each his own may be the single best element of this hobby that first caught hold of me in my early youth with Unique Arts, American Flyer, and fortunately, a large assembly of yard sale benchwork, vintage HO equipment, and especially notable, two bound volumes of MR from 1941 & 1942. I think a young boy re-reading those 24 WWII era issues as he built his first AF layouts in the 1950's was the primary reason I'm focused on the equipment and modeling techniques of that time. So please let me share my two favorite episodes from the long-running comic strip from those days in MR: What follows in longer maybe than is needed to make these points, but I can't post the cartoons, and describing them in text is unavoidably long-winded, but they are a sample of the vintage MR era that I am trying to recreate in part, in my own basement empire-in-progress. The main character was a wealthy banker whose obsession was his model railroad, and his closest friends his mr buddies. The first addresses the way the MR hobby appears to those that are focused on non-MR elements of a common hobby-interest in the world of 1:1 railroading; and vice versa; (I'm used to this situation in the online group that is focused on my chosen prototype; many members are amateur railroad historians, a few are professionals; but only a minority are also model railroaders, so while I'm glad to have the access to detailed information on my chosen prototype, it's also true that many folks who are very interested in vintage railroads just can't fathom another's interest in model railroads; and are oblivious to any distinction between vintage model railroading and modern models, or even toy-trains of any type...all the more reason I appreciate the community in this vintage HO group ) --------- The first cartoon shows the banker and his buddies in a station's yard, climbing all around and measuring a caboose; two strangers walk by slowly on another set of tracks; the model railroaders call over to them, asking them what they're doing?  the others reply that they're railroad buffs and are collecting discarded ticket stubs, timetables, and any cast-off railroad employee items like insignia, etc..., then they ask the model railroaders what are they doing? the modelers of course reply that they are measuring the caboose so they can make an accurate scale model of it; the final panel is of course a picture of both groups pointing to the other and making the hand signs signifying how insane those poor fools are... The second cartoon addresses the vintage point that model railroading is effective escapism from the world of bad and worse news; but assuming that is a gospel truth; it goes further and makes a joke at the expense of the modeler who so frequently uses that point to justify his escape to his private world... In this four-panel strip from 1942, the banker is shown reading a newspaper with bold wartime headlines; then throwing it down in disgust as he stomps downstairs to his train room; announcing to all that he's sick up to here with the awful news of WAR WAR  WAR!; and that he is gone to escape the world  in his private railroad empire... The final panel shows him in closeup - clenching a big cigar and grinning broadly  as he looks through his modeling magnifier and uses a tiny paint brush on the tiny details of his latest scratch-built model railroad creation  - a foot-long WWI era railroad gun! Chris Brannigan Christopher J. Brannigan, Senior Privacy Analyst, CIPP/G Office of the Chief Information Officer Office of Information Systems Security Privacy Division, AIS-600 Federal Aviation Administration 950 L'Enfant Plaza, SW Washington, DC 20024-2123 202-385-6582

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20241	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Vintage HO favorites

Yes this hobby has comedy and is an art form. I find it totally relaxing after fighting I-495. It taught me basic electricity, machining, painting etc. and I made some great friends --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20242	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Diecast cracking

I have an old diecast tender (John English) that has cracks running throughout the piece. What causes this? It does not look abused by children, etc. Will this continue until it falls apart, leaving hunks of metal on the track for the second section to run into?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20243	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking

In a message dated 9/28/2012 9:27:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, lewis.ted16@... writes:   I have an old diecast tender (John English) that has cracks running throughout the piece. What causes this? It does not look abused by children, etc. Will this continue until it falls apart, leaving hunks of metal on the track for the second section to run into?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20244	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

Yes, it will continue until the tender is a pile of dust.  It is caused by a poor chemical mix of the die cast material, very common with old die cast trains.  The Penn Line GG-! is a good example, as many have turned to dust.  Varney has had many failures too.  Sometimes the die cast item expands, like the Varney Dockside frame that cracks the plastic body, as it did on mine.  I have a Gilbert gon that this has happened to also.  Too bad, but no fix for this.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20245	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking

Your tender suffers from "zinc pest", which is intracrystalline corrosion caused by lead impurities in a zinc die casting alloy.  Here's a link to a Wikipedia article on the subject:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest   So far as I now there is no cure.  It will disintegrate eventually. John B. Allyn From: "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 9:27:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Diecast cracking   I have an old diecast tender (John English) that has cracks running throughout the piece. What causes this? It does not look abused by children, etc. Will this continue until it falls apart, leaving hunks of metal on the track for the second section to run into?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20246	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

And it doesn't happen to just model railroad items. Here is an image of a "pot metal" (also called "Zamak") cam from a '60s era Akai reel-to-reel tape deck that I acquired. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/old-electronics-and/akaim9cam.html> Another deck's cam from the same era was fine. Several theories have been put forth about the problem. Some folks claim that the factory put any kind of metal they could find into the mix, including floor sweepings and lathe scrap. Other say it is because dissimilar metals in contact resulted in electrolytic reactions. As Brad commented, it doesn't appear that there is any cure for the problem that I heave heard of. Mike On 9/28/2012 10:32 AM, corlissbs@... wrote: > Yes, it will continue until the tender is a pile of dust. It is > caused by a poor chemical mix of the die cast material, very common > with old die cast trains. The Penn Line GG-! is a good example, as > many have turned to dust. Varney has had many failures too. > Sometimes the die cast item expands, like the Varney Dockside frame > that cracks the plastic body, as it did on mine. I have a Gilbert > gon that this has happened to also. Too bad, but no fix for this. > Brad Smith Franklin, WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20247	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: order parts & eBay win

> > > > Had to order more parts for my early > Lew English Mountain from Bowser. 2 eccentrics, 2 eccentric screws and > 2 eccentric rivets to change those parts. Along with the link rivets I > think I have all the parts I need. I'm going to have to drop the valve > gear from the frame box to work right. While I have it apart I will > take the drivers and side rods out and clean the frame and driver > cover and repaint them. A couple days to dry and I can put drivers and > side rods back on and I should have the valve gear ( new eccentrics ) > ready. It's taken a little while to get it right but not going anywhere. > > The lady I talked to at Bowser was very nice and > helpful. Some of the numbers had an extra zero added and one part was > an entirely different number then the plan sheet that was sent to me > compliments of Ray F W. That can be expected since my engine is the > first Lew English / Bowser Mountain made around 1960. > > Had to order a geared driver from Dan Bush for the > other project I'm working on. That Mystery 2-6-0 I won. That makes > two steam engines in a row that I had to find a geared driver set > since one driver just spun around on it's own. I don't no how both > were chewed out. > > Also I won an item on eBay last night. If you go to > 320986919215 Vintage Revell HO SW-7 UP Diesel Switcher. I have a > large selection of Revell engines. Both the PA 0-4-0t , UP 0-6-0, I > have 9 F-7's ( different road names and drives) including the dummy > Santa Fe and B&O. I only have 4 SW-7 with different road names but not > the Union Pacific. That's why I bid on that auction. Looks in great > shape with O/B and I doubt much to do thanks to Sean N. > > Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20248	From: John H	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

Read message 20245 (the one just previous to yours) from John Allyn and click the link for a wikipedia link to a very good explanation of the problem. It was more a matter of what was available during WWII and the years just after rather than a "Throw in whatever" situation. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > And it doesn't happen to just model railroad items. Here is an image of > a "pot metal" (also called "Zamak") cam from a '60s era Akai > reel-to-reel tape deck that I acquired. > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/old-electronics-and/akaim9cam.html> > Another deck's cam from the same era was fine. > > Several theories have been put forth about the problem. Some folks claim > that the factory put any kind of metal they could find into the mix, > including floor sweepings and lathe scrap. Other say it is because > dissimilar metals in contact resulted in electrolytic reactions. As Brad > commented, it doesn't appear that there is any cure for the problem that > I heave heard of. > > Mike > > On 9/28/2012 10:32 AM, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Yes, it will continue until the tender is a pile of dust. It is > > caused by a poor chemical mix of the die cast material, very common > > with old die cast trains. The Penn Line GG-! is a good example, as > > many have turned to dust. Varney has had many failures too. > > Sometimes the die cast item expands, like the Varney Dockside frame > > that cracks the plastic body, as it did on mine. I have a Gilbert > > gon that this has happened to also. Too bad, but no fix for this. > > Brad Smith Franklin, WI > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20249	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

Die cast items were already cracking and turning to dust in the early 1960's.  I remember modelers telling me not to buy Hobbytown of Boston die cast metal shells (PA-1 and RS-3) because they would disintegrate.  However, none of my Hobbytown stuff ever did and they are still fine today.  It was a batch thing.  My Penn Line NH GG-1 is still pristine, even though they had a reputation of disintegrating.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20250	From: Glenn	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

a friend just got a Hobbytown E-7 A&B—both of wqhich have crumbled frames—am going to steer him along  toward making new frames.  As I reecall wnen I did a PA I made the frame of K&S rectangular tube and flat stock.  So far my RSD-5 is intact—frp, a 1980’s kit.    Glenn Joesten   From: corlissbs@... Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message   Die cast items were already cracking and turning to dust in the early 1960's.  I remember modelers telling me not to buy Hobbytown of Boston die cast metal shells (PA-1 and RS-3) because they would disintegrate.  However, none of my Hobbytown stuff ever did and they are still fine today.  It was a batch thing.  My Penn Line NH GG-1 is still pristine, even though they had a reputation of disintegrating.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20251	From: Glenn	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking

ckean it carefully, then flow a reallly thin super glue into the cracks and you can stabilize it. at least cosmetically -----Original Message----- From: lewis.ted16 Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 7:27 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Diecast cracking I have an old diecast tender (John English) that has cracks running throughout the piece. What causes this? It does not look abused by children, etc. Will this continue until it falls apart, leaving hunks of metal on the track for the second section to run into? ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20252	From: Ken Soroos	Date: 9/28/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

Hi Guys - You've likely discussed this before I became a member of this list, but I have several older cars (Varney with lithographed metal sides in particular) where the plastic(?) running boards and other plastic parts have developed "blooms," a white substance, from a reaction with the plastic. Is there a good way to clean and then possibly seal the material to prevent it from recurring? If discussed before, could someone summarize and possibly reference a file or earlier thread which addresses the problem? Thanks! Ken Soroos

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20253	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Varney V2 motor question

I just accquired a Varney V2 motor that appears to have very little use. But it does not have any brushes. Probably why it has not been used much. So, I have to find some brushes that will work on it. So, I'm looking for some suggestion of where to find something that will work. Anyone know of a source for a pair of brushes that will fit the V2. I think they are square shaped but I'm not sure what length they need to be. Would a pair of round carbon brushes work, that might just need a little shaping with a file to fit. The seller said he tried putting brushes in it and the motor would not run, but I think the problem is that the worm gear was locked in place with old dried out grease. I'm in the process of cleaning all the old grease out. When I get it cleaned, I think that I will try using the brushes from the only other V2 that I have and see if it runs. It looks to be in good shape except for the old grease so I think that it should run. But I do need to find a pair of brushes to get it running. Thanks for any help and or advice. I don't post on here very often but I do read almost every post from others. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20254	From: gary pardue	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

Don, All flashlight batteries have a carbon rod inside that can be used to make brushes. Find a size close and file away to shape. I have made many and they all worked well. Just be sure to thoroughly wash the rods first and completely dry them out. Hope this helps. GaryP. --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Don Hud <don_hud@...> wrote: From: Don Hud <don_hud@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Varney V2 motor question To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 8:13 PM   I just accquired a Varney V2 motor that appears to have very little use. But it does not have any brushes. Probably why it has not been used much. So, I have to find some brushes that will work on it. So, I'm looking for some suggestion of where to find something that will work. Anyone know of a source for a pair of brushes that will fit the V2. I think they are square shaped but I'm not sure what length they need to be. Would a pair of round carbon brushes work, that might just need a little shaping with a file to fit. The seller said he tried putting brushes in it and the motor would not run, but I think the problem is that the worm gear was locked in place with old dried out grease. I'm in the process of cleaning all the old grease out. When I get it cleaned, I think that I will try using the brushes from the only other V2 that I have and see if it runs. It looks to be in good shape except for the old grease so I think that it should run. But I do need to find a pair of brushes to get it running. Thanks for any help and or advice. I don't post on here very often but I do read almost every post from others. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20255	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

Don, I'd approximate the V-2 brushes to be only about 1/4" long. I don't have any new ones, but how long are your old ones from that other motor? If they're shorter, you can go up to at least 1/4". If they're longer, my brushes are more worn than I thought they were. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20256	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and I just need some brushes. I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Don, I'd approximate the V-2 brushes to be only about 1/4" long. I don't > have any new ones, but how long are your old ones from that other motor? If > they're shorter, you can go up to at least 1/4". If they're longer, my > brushes are more worn than I thought they were. > > Ray F.W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20257	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and I just need some brushes. I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Don, I'd approximate the V-2 brushes to be only about 1/4" long. I don't > have any new ones, but how long are your old ones from that other motor? If > they're shorter, you can go up to at least 1/4". If they're longer, my > brushes are more worn than I thought they were. > > Ray F.W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20258	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

Someone wrote in to suggest using the carbon centers from small batteries. It should be noted that the batteries with carbon centers are the traditional carbon-zinc batteries (NOT the NiCad or other rechargeable types). I have not take one apart in many years, so I don't know if they still have carbon rods in them or have some other material. Mike On 9/30/2012 10:46 AM, Don Hud wrote: > I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes > from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and > I just need some brushes. > > I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", > more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20259	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I had a bad AA alkaline sitting in my trash can, so I decided to try to take it apart. 2 problems with that as a source for carbon rods. AA batteries are too small to have a center rod large enough to be able to make a motor brush out of it. The one I took apart did not have a carbon rod in it, so I'm guessing that is the case with all alkaline batteries, they do not use a carbon rod. So, I think that the only source for usable carbon rods from old batteries would be a D size carbon/zinc battery. I don't think that I even have one of those around the house. Right now I have located some old large motor brushes from the junk box and am going to try to cut some small pieces off and shape them to the right size. Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > Someone wrote in to suggest using the carbon centers from small > batteries. It should be noted that the batteries with carbon centers are > the traditional carbon-zinc batteries (NOT the NiCad or other > rechargeable types). I have not take one apart in many years, so I don't > know if they still have carbon rods in them or have some other material. > > Mike > > On 9/30/2012 10:46 AM, Don Hud wrote: > > I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes > > from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and > > I just need some brushes. > > > > I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", > > more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. > > > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20260	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

This might be a little, "out there," but I needed brushes for something once and I happened to have a little box of old NOS generator/motor brushes. What I needed was a round brush, 1/4-inch dia. or so. I found a larger round carbon brush. (What I needed had no wire attached) So I chucked the round carbon stick in my 7x10 lathe and GENTLY turned it to correct size. Worked perfectly. With that in mind, could you check with an auto electric shop that rebuilds alternators, generators, etc., and see if they have a carbon stick brush close to your size? (They might have a junk box, etc.) You might get away with taking such home, brewing a large pot of coffee, and filing it to shape. Dennis At 12:46 AM 9/30/2012, you wrote: >I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the >brushes from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the >motor is OK and I just need some brushes. > >I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than >1/4", more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. > >Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20261	From: mwbauers	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I have an email and bookmark on a source for round bare carbon sticks at about$2 bucks each. I'll look for it on the computer later today. What about a Google search for square carbon motor brushes? Mike Bauers on da phone... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hud" <don_hud@...> wrote: > > I just accquired a Varney V2 motor that appears to have very little use. But it does not have any brushes. Probably why it has not been used much. > > So, I have to find some brushes that will work on it. So, I'm looking for some suggestion of where to find something that will work. Anyone know of a source for a pair of brushes that will fit the V2. I think they are square shaped but I'm not sure what length they need to be. > > Would a pair of round carbon brushes work, that might just need a little shaping with a file to fit. > > The seller said he tried putting brushes in it and the motor would not run, but I think the problem is that the worm gear was locked in place with old dried out grease. I'm in the process of cleaning all the old grease out. When I get it cleaned, I think that I will try using the brushes from the only other V2 that I have and see if it runs. It looks to be in good shape except for the old grease so I think that it should run. But I do need to find a pair of brushes to get it running. > > Thanks for any help and or advice. I don't post on here very often but I do read almost every post from others. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20262	From: Mike	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

If it can help, I know I can get a carbon block of a large carbon motor brush from work. You would have to cut it to size. But it would enough to make a heck of a lot of your motor brushes. Mike Bauers, on da phone --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hud" <don_hud@...> wrote: > > I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and I just need some brushes. > > I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. > > Don > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@ wrote: > > > > Don, I'd approximate the V-2 brushes to be only about 1/4" long. I don't > > have any new ones, but how long are your old ones from that other motor? If > > they're shorter, you can go up to at least 1/4". If they're longer, my > > brushes are more worn than I thought they were. > > > > Ray F.W.</HTML> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20263	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I have found several Marklin motor brushes that are either square or rectangular. Some I can find dimensions on and some not. I made an offer on 2 sets of Marklin brushes from a hobby shop in the Netherlands that look like they might be about the right size. I would rather they be a little oversized than too small. The shipping on them is only $3.30 and if they accept my offer, the cost won't be bad. In the meantime, I'm still going to work on cutting a pair from the large brushes that I have. Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mwbauers" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I have an email and bookmark on a source for round bare carbon sticks at about$2 bucks each. > > I'll look for it on the computer later today. > > What about a Google search for square carbon motor brushes? > > Mike Bauers on da phone... > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hud" <don_hud@> wrote: > > > > I just accquired a Varney V2 motor that appears to have very little use. But it does not have any brushes. Probably why it has not been used much. > > > > So, I have to find some brushes that will work on it. So, I'm looking for some suggestion of where to find something that will work. Anyone know of a source for a pair of brushes that will fit the V2. I think they are square shaped but I'm not sure what length they need to be. > > > > Would a pair of round carbon brushes work, that might just need a little shaping with a file to fit. > > > > The seller said he tried putting brushes in it and the motor would not run, but I think the problem is that the worm gear was locked in place with old dried out grease. I'm in the process of cleaning all the old grease out. When I get it cleaned, I think that I will try using the brushes from the only other V2 that I have and see if it runs. It looks to be in good shape except for the old grease so I think that it should run. But I do need to find a pair of brushes to get it running. > > > > Thanks for any help and or advice. I don't post on here very often but I do read almost every post from others. > > > > Don > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20264	From: Nelson	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I had a few sections of brush material, about 1" x 1/8" in my parts box... not sure where they came from. I needed a smaller dia. brush for an old Rivaorssi motor, so I chucked one in a drill and turned it down with a needle file, then cut it off with a razor saw. Worked like a charm. I think I also have two large rectangular brushes I saved from an appliance motor. Things like dead vacuums or shredders are good sources. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote: > > > This might be a little, "out there," but I needed brushes for > something once and I happened to have a little box of old NOS > generator/motor brushes. What I needed was a round brush, 1/4-inch > dia. or so. I found a larger round carbon brush. (What I needed had > no wire attached) So I chucked the round carbon stick in my 7x10 > lathe and GENTLY turned it to correct size. Worked perfectly. > > With that in mind, could you check with an auto electric shop that > rebuilds alternators, generators, etc., and see if they have a carbon > stick brush close to your size? (They might have a junk box, > etc.) You might get away with taking such home, brewing a large pot > of coffee, and filing it to shape. > > Dennis

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20265	From: Don Hud	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

I have successfully made one brush from the large motor brush that I have and it seems to work just fine. A very messy process but I think that I will try to make several more just like it and pick out the best two of the bunch and keep the rest as spares. Thanks for all the advice, I think that I now have several options for brushes for this motor and should have it in good running condition soon. Thanks, Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I had a few sections of brush material, about 1" x 1/8" in my parts box... not sure where they came from. I needed a smaller dia. brush for an old Rivaorssi motor, so I chucked one in a drill and turned it down with a needle file, then cut it off with a razor saw. Worked like a charm. > > I think I also have two large rectangular brushes I saved from an appliance motor. Things like dead vacuums or shredders are good sources. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@> wrote: > > > > > > This might be a little, "out there," but I needed brushes for > > something once and I happened to have a little box of old NOS > > generator/motor brushes. What I needed was a round brush, 1/4-inch > > dia. or so. I found a larger round carbon brush. (What I needed had > > no wire attached) So I chucked the round carbon stick in my 7x10 > > lathe and GENTLY turned it to correct size. Worked perfectly. > > > > With that in mind, could you check with an auto electric shop that > > rebuilds alternators, generators, etc., and see if they have a carbon > > stick brush close to your size? (They might have a junk box, > > etc.) You might get away with taking such home, brewing a large pot > > of coffee, and filing it to shape. > > > > Dennis >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20266	From: Glenn	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

LGB uses cylindrical carbon brushes for power pickup on the wheels. There are several sizes--you don't need the assemblies with the aluminum tube-- gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Hud Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney V2 motor question I had a bad AA alkaline sitting in my trash can, so I decided to try to take it apart. 2 problems with that as a source for carbon rods. AA batteries are too small to have a center rod large enough to be able to make a motor brush out of it. The one I took apart did not have a carbon rod in it, so I'm guessing that is the case with all alkaline batteries, they do not use a carbon rod. So, I think that the only source for usable carbon rods from old batteries would be a D size carbon/zinc battery. I don't think that I even have one of those around the house. Right now I have located some old large motor brushes from the junk box and am going to try to cut some small pieces off and shape them to the right size. Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > Someone wrote in to suggest using the carbon centers from small > batteries. It should be noted that the batteries with carbon centers are > the traditional carbon-zinc batteries (NOT the NiCad or other > rechargeable types). I have not take one apart in many years, so I don't > know if they still have carbon rods in them or have some other material. > > Mike > > On 9/30/2012 10:46 AM, Don Hud wrote: > > I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes > > from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and > > I just need some brushes. > > > > I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", > > more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. > > > > Don > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20267	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

Look here for 1/8 and 5/32 x 4 inch long carbon rods at $1.30 We have solid carbon block motor brushes all over the plant I work in, we make giant motors as part of our heavy industry product. I'm going to ask for some old or broken ones to have the carbon block on hand for the hobby old motors I've got in the house. It looks like they will come in handy. I also need to order several of those carbon rods for my resistance solderer. So I might as well get some of both sizes. I'm glad the subject came up. Mike Bauers On Sep 30, 2012, at 5:19 PM, Glenn wrote: > LGB uses cylindrical carbon brushes for power pickup on the wheels. There > are several sizes--you don't need the assemblies with the aluminum tube-- > gj ...... >> On 9/30/2012 10:46 AM, Don Hud wrote: >>> I got all the old grease cleaned out, re-oiled it and put in the brushes >>> from the other motor and it runs. So at least I know the motor is OK and >>> I just need some brushes. >>> >>> I took one of the brushes out and measured it. It is less than 1/4", >>> more like about 2/10 and it is about 1/10" square. >>> >>> Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20268	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Varney V2 motor question

Forgot the link...... http://stellartechnical.com/luma.aspx On Oct 1, 2012, at 6:06 AM, Mike Bauers wrote: > Look here for 1/8 and 5/32 x 4 inch long carbon rods at $1.30

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20270	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Truck type question

Can anyone please advise me of the truck type found under the tender of No. 3370? And recommend a source for HO scale. Thank you. http://www.railarchive.net/alcopacifics/ap08.htm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20271	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type question

They look like Commonwealth Standard trucks.  Check out the PSC Website.   http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ Go to Trucks, then select Steam, then look at #31541, brass kit, or 31541.1, brass assembled. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lewis.ted16@... Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 12:48:37 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Truck type question   Can anyone please advise me of the truck type found under the tender of No. 3370? And recommend a source for HO scale. Thank you. http://www.railarchive.net/alcopacifics/ap08.htm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20272	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type

Precision Scale has (or had) this truck.  I can't remember the name; Commonwealth is a possibility.  Kemtron made an all brass SP Vanderbilt tender and these were the trucks.  My PSC catalog is at home so I don't have a part number or a price.  I did get a pair within the last five years or so. John B. Allyn From: "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 7:45:56 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Truck type   Can anyone please advise me of the type of truck found under the tender of No. 3370? And perhaps a source in HO scale. Thank you.http://www.railarchive.net/alcopacifics/ap08.htm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20273	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type question

Vic's faster than I am! John B. Allyn From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 8:28:47 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Truck type question   They look like Commonwealth Standard trucks.  Check out the PSC Website.   http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ Go to Trucks, then select Steam, then look at #31541, brass kit, or 31541.1, brass assembled. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: lewis.ted16@... Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 12:48:37 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Truck type question   Can anyone please advise me of the truck type found under the tender of No. 3370? And recommend a source for HO scale. Thank you. http://www.railarchive.net/alcopacifics/ap08.htm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20274	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type question

Thank you very much! I think we found a match. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > They look like Commonwealth Standard trucks. Check out the PSC Website. http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ > Go to Trucks, then select Steam, then look at #31541, brass kit, or 31541.1, brass assembled.Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: lewis.ted16@... > Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 12:48:37 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Truck type question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone please advise me of the truck type found under the tender of No. 3370? And recommend a source for HO scale. Thank you. > > http://www.railarchive.net/alcopacifics/ap08.htm >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20275	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Truck type

Bittercreek models have a lot of unusual trucks listed you may find them here   Alan http://bittercreekmodels.com/page5.html From: lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 5:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Truck type   Can anyone please advise me of the type of truck found under the tender of No. 3370? And perhaps a source in HO scale. Thank you.http://www.railarchive.net/alcopacifics/ap08.htm

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20276	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: eBay win

Attachments : IMG_8524.JPG A picture of the Revell SW-7 that I won on eBay compliments of seller Sean N. In excellent shape with O/B. It does have one handrail that was snapped in the middle which I can make easily and needs the back coupler changed to a Revell coupler with pocket which I also have. I bought it for my vintage collection because the Union Pacific is the only SW-7 road name I didn't have. I think I have all Revell engines including the powered PA 0-4-0t and the powered 0-6-0t Omaha along with the F-7's in all road name and drives including the B&O and Santa Fe dummies. As for the two project steam engines I'm rebuilding, an early Lew English Bowser and a 2-6-0 Mystery engine ( I think it should be 4-6-0) I finally got all the parts I need to rebuild them. I was able to get all the small early Bowser parts from Bowser plus the plans from Ray F W. The big problem now is they are on hold as my hands got shaky and working with link rivets, eccentrics and the rivets to attach the eccentrics isn't possible so I started cleaning the Mystery 2-6-0 off. Seller said tender was plastic. Turns out tender body and frame are brass and stamped Japan.. The cab / boiler is brass but the frame is cast and the valve gear Mantua are the valve gear, side and main rods. However the drivers are Varney . A real hybrid. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20277	From: mmattjcoleman	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: eBay win

Jim, Thanks for posting the photo of the Revell switcher. I have one in the SP Orange and black scheme and have not seen one in the UP paint in a clear close up -- lets me compare and see what mine might be missing. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > A picture of the Revell SW-7 that I won on eBay > compliments of seller Sean N. In excellent shape with O/B. It does have > one handrail that was snapped in the middle which I can make easily and > needs the back coupler changed to a Revell coupler with pocket which I > also have. I bought it for my vintage collection because the Union > Pacific is the only SW-7 road name I didn't have. I think I have all > Revell engines including the powered PA 0-4-0t and the powered 0-6-0t > Omaha along with the F-7's in all road name and drives including the B&O > and Santa Fe dummies. > > As for the two project steam engines I'm rebuilding, an early > Lew English Bowser and a 2-6-0 Mystery engine ( I think it should be > 4-6-0) I finally got all the parts I need to rebuild them. I was able to > get all the small early Bowser parts from Bowser plus the plans from Ray > F W. The big problem now is > they are on hold as my hands got shaky and working with link rivets, > eccentrics and the rivets to attach the eccentrics isn't possible so I > started cleaning the Mystery 2-6-0 off. Seller said tender was plastic. > Turns out tender body and frame are brass and stamped Japan.. The cab / > boiler is brass but the frame is cast and the valve gear Mantua are the > valve gear, side and main rods. However the drivers are Varney . A real > hybrid. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20278	From: trainm7	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast cracking-Real Message

I have quite a few Hobbytown drives 95% from the flywheel drive era .I have not had any issues with the castings. I still operate them today. I think they run better and have more power than a lot of the newer engines.I also have quite of the newer plastic engines that run very well but the Hobbytowns are more fun to run. What noise there is sounds like a built in sound system. The Hobbytowns have great slow speed and excellent control over the entire speed range. A lot of these are equipped with the slow or medium speed gear sets.A few PA and E units have the high speed gears,a bit too fast. I am Using some of those bargain Cannon can motors with lower top end RPMs to slow them down. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Die cast items were already cracking and turning to dust in the early > 1960's. I remember modelers telling me not to buy Hobbytown of Boston die cast > metal shells (PA-1 and RS-3) because they would disintegrate. However, > none of my Hobbytown stuff ever did and they are still fine today. It was a > batch thing. My Penn Line NH GG-1 is still pristine, even though they had > a reputation of disintegrating. > > Brad Smith > Franklin,WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20279	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell SW-7's

Attachments : IMG_8526.JPG Matt C, I'm sending this picture of the Revell SW-7 listing I have. You have to watch Revell SW-7's ( and F-7's) as certain road names have Deluxe ( added details) and Standard versions. The numbers in the listing minus the T is the same number on the engine so you know exactly which one you have. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20280	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell S P

Attachments : IMG_8534_1.JPG IMG_8533_1.JPG IMG_8531_1.JPG Matt C. This is a picture of my Deluxe SP Revell SW-7 with clutch. Sorry I didn't get Pacific in the side view. Bad with camera. The booklet with the Revell listings I have is rather old so everything might not be right but the only listing I have. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20281	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell Engines

Matt C, Go to HO seeker, click on Gallery, then scroll down to HO Trains R to Z and click on Revell. This shows some of the Revell engines I have. The write ups might show you how confusing Revell can get. I'm still trying to sort things out. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20282	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Engines

On 10/6/2012 11:14 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > Matt C, > > Go to HO seeker, click on Gallery, then scroll down to HO Trains > R to Z and click on Revell. This shows some of the Revell engines I > have. The write ups might show you how confusing Revell can get. I'm > still trying to sort things out. > > Jim H > > Something that's always bothered me. Is there a way to identify the difference between an F-7 shell by Revell and one by Globe. I have shells that have beensupposedly identified as both. Characteristics have been a single headlight and separate number boards with a number actually molded in. Is this Globe, Revell, or did Revell get shells from Athearn/Globe? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20283	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Revell Shells

Don, I have not really checked out the details on Revell shells verses others. If I "remember" right the Revell shells have the Revell name inside on the top plus a 4 digit number year number. Don't have any engines apart and no extra shells. Will try tomorrow to see what differences I can find. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20284	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell SW-7's

Jim, Jim, Thank you! This list was a total surprise to me -- I never knew they did one in Santa Fe. Thank you again! Matt C --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Matt C, > > > I'm sending this picture of the Revell SW-7 listing I > have. You have to watch Revell SW-7's ( and F-7's) as certain road names > have Deluxe ( added details) and Standard versions. The numbers in the > listing minus the T is the same number on the engine so you know exactly > which one you have. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20285	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

Jim, Thank you again! These photos (and the ones on HO Seeker) clarified something I have seen on eBay but wasn't sure. My SP must be the less detailed one, as the basic parts are the same as yours, but not as well detailed. I wonder if that was from a different year, or if there was an actual catalog number difference. Matt C --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Matt C. > > This is a picture of my Deluxe SP Revell SW-7 with clutch. Sorry > I didn't get Pacific in the side view. Bad with camera. The booklet with > the Revell listings I have is rather old so everything might not be > right but the only listing I have. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20286	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell SW-7's

Matt,        Revell did a freight and passenger F-7 in Santa Fe.                                               Jim H On 10/7/2012 1:06 PM, ablecynic wrote:   Jim, Jim, Thank you! This list was a total surprise to me -- I never knew they did one in Santa Fe. Thank you again! Matt C --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Matt C, > > > I'm sending this picture of the Revell SW-7 listing I > have. You have to watch Revell SW-7's ( and F-7's) as certain road names > have Deluxe ( added details) and Standard versions. The numbers in the > listing minus the T is the same number on the engine so you know exactly > which one you have. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20287	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

Matt,     According to the booklet there were two different SP numbers. As for the year the booklet has the years all engines made . I don't have the booklet in front of me but if I remember right both were same year but different numbers. The person writing the booklet cautions there could be mistake and to let him know. It's a 20 year or more old booklet but the only thing I have listing everything Revell made. Sets, Accessories along with year made. Still have to take a Revell F-7 body to see if I can match it up with any other body or did Revell make there own for Don but not feeling to good today to do searching..                                                                               Jim On 10/7/2012 1:19 PM, ablecynic wrote:   Jim, Thank you again! These photos (and the ones on HO Seeker) clarified something I have seen on eBay but wasn't sure. My SP must be the less detailed one, as the basic parts are the same as yours, but not as well detailed. I wonder if that was from a different year, or if there was an actual catalog number difference. Matt C --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Matt C. > > This is a picture of my Deluxe SP Revell SW-7 with clutch. Sorry > I didn't get Pacific in the side view. Bad with camera. The booklet with > the Revell listings I have is rather old so everything might not be > right but the only listing I have. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20288	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Castor O-1

On 10/7/2012 3:41 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Would like to buy Castor plastic powered B-1 Rat. > Contact off site. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20289	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Castor O-1

On the topic of the Castor B-1, does anyone know what the motor looks like or how exactly it is mounted? I have one of these, got it complete-ish, sans motor. Trying to figure out what to put inside. The gearbox reminds me of a clockwork music box I fixed for my grandma when I was seven years old. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 10/7/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Castor O-1 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 7, 2012, 2:42 PM   On 10/7/2012 3:41 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Would like to buy Castor plastic powered B-1 Rat. > Contact off site. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20290	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Fwd: Castor B-1

Attachments : IMG_8551.JPG IMG_8549.JPG Steve N, Here is the info I have on the Castor B-1. Hope you are able to see and read. Somewhere I have a picture of the motor in it but can't find it. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20291	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Castor B-1 [2 Attachments]

The text half of that page is on HOSeeker. Since I see it mentions Pittman, that gives me an educated guess. Between that and the info on the machine screws used to adjust the motor, I can probably at least get a close enough motor. Had this for a while, never got a chance to get it up and running. Between this unit and a small Japanese brass 4-wheel locomotive (I think a Ken Kidder import), I would like to start a short electric line on my layout. As it is, I made a foot-operated bell mounted near where the electric line will end. Mounted a push button momentary contact switch in a small box, mounted that to the floor. The bell is an electric doorbell, the kind that rings rapidly, as we used to hear in schoolyards. Running that bell at 1.5 VDC or so, slows the mechanism quite a bit, so quick motion of the switch gives a fairly realistic bell effect. Couple weeks ago I found an antique coffee grinder box. Wooden box, 6" square footprint, a few inches high. The grinder crank handle on top looks dead on like an old motorman's throttle! Pictures of these throttles that I found online match how I remember them looking at the Illinois Railway Museum. Pulled out the grinding mechanism, and hid a basic power pack inside, the handle now turns a shaft inside that connects to the power pack knob inside the box. Basically have a motorman's stand for the electric line I'm planning! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 10/8/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Castor B-1 [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 9:06 AM   Steve N, Here is the info I have on the Castor B-1. Hope you are able to see and read. Somewhere I have a picture of the motor in it but can't find it. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20292	From: Nelson	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

Jim, they were surprisingly well detailed. Did they always use an O-ring, or did any have a spring belt transmission? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Matt C. > > This is a picture of my Deluxe SP Revell SW-7 with clutch. Sorry > I didn't get Pacific in the side view. Bad with camera. The booklet with > the Revell listings I have is rather old so everything might not be > right but the only listing I have. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20293	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

Some had a centrifugal clutch between the motor and the O-ring, for smooth starts and stops.  As far as I know, the O-ring was always used.    Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20294	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

To answer a previous question, the F7 body shell was definitely a Revell creation, not the Globe/Athearn body, even though it had separate number boards, as the Globe and early Athearn bodies had.  There are too many differences.  I checked both in my collection.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20295	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

On 10/8/2012 2:16 PM, corlissbs@... wrote: To answer a previous question, the F7 body shell was definitely a Revell creation, not the Globe/Athearn body, even though it had separate number boards, as the Globe and early Athearn bodies had.  There are too many differences.  I checked both in my collection.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI Can you post pictures of both so we can see the differences side by side? Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20296	From: Nelson	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Revell S P

I picked up a clutch-equipped chassis a while ago that had a dried out O-ring, which I replaced. I wasn't sure if it was originally a spring or not. Electronic throttles make the clutch unnecessary, unless you're operating vintage rheostats. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Some had a centrifugal clutch between the motor and the O-ring, for smooth > starts and stops. As far as I know, the O-ring was always used. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20297	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: I just purchased 2 Hi-F GP7 decorated for International Minerals and

Attachments : IMP_3.jpg IMP_2.JPG IMP_1.JPG Hey Guys, Can anyone tell me a little on the history of this set? I have two complete sets with engine, hopper car, tank car, boxcar and caboose (without boxes). I heard they were listed both the Greenberg and Krause guides or something like that. Anyone know anything? Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20298	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Revell Bodies

Attachments : IMG_8558.JPG IMG_8555.JPG IMG_8553.JPG IMG_8552.JPG Don, The pictures show a Revell F-7 Santa Fe engine and a Athearn F-7 New Haven. I think you can see differences except on the top. The sides have differences, the backs and the fronts as far as the number boards which are different. I don't have a Mantua F-7 to check that. Globe would be basically same as Athearn except for the number boards and horns are separate . I can find no other company to match Revells. Maybe Revell made their own. Remember they work with plastic for their many models. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20299	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies [4 Attachments]

On 10/9/2012 1:39 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Don, > > The pictures show a Revell F-7 Santa Fe engine and a Athearn > F-7 New Haven. I think you can see differences except on the top. The > sides have differences, the backs and the fronts as far as the number > boards which are different. I don't have a Mantua F-7 to check that. > Globe would be basically same as Athearn except for the number boards > and horns are separate . I can find no other company to match Revells. > Maybe Revell made their own. Remember they work with plastic for their > many models. > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > Thanks; The two I have are definitely Globe. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20300	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies

If your bodies are Globe, then they are a retro fit by a modeler.    Regarding Mantua, their shells were different from Globe/Athearn.  I bought my first Mantua F7 when they first came out and the body never changed until production ceased in the Tyco days, except for tab holes that held the power trucks on the Tyco version.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20301	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Problem

Don Dellmann, I'm not receiving any emails for today. Any idea. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20302	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Found Problem

Don Dellmann, My wife found out why I wasn't receiving emails today. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20303	From: Mal	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Pickle cars

My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20304	From: Joe Donato	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

You are correct,  I just picked up one recently I believe its an athearn.  it has the vats and then the box is built around it and everything is removable.   Happy Railroading!! Joe Donato & Missy Soltis TCA Member #12-66954 PCA Member #12-748 Always buying/selling/trade new and old trains and related items in all scales! From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem

On 10/9/2012 6:34 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > Don Dellmann, > > My wife found out why I wasn't receiving emails today. > > I was going to say, there didn't look like any problem at this end. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20306	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Pickle car

Attachments : IMG_8566.JPG Mal, While there might be couple kits out there for pickle cars I thought you might be interested in a plastic factory assembled and painted Heinz 57 pickle car by Revell. I don't collect freight cars but just happen to have this in a set. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20307	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

On 10/9/2012 6:53 PM, Mal wrote: > My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. > > Malcolm Laughlin > As another member pointed out, Athearn did the most popular one, in two versions, one open side showing the four vats, and one closed side http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/1979964879/in/set-72157603108686483 http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/1979965131/in/set-72157603108686483 Craftsman type wood cars were also done by Amboid/Northeastern and Ye Olde Huff n Puff( which was a reissue of possibly LW) There were also some newer Resin kits from Westerfield The cars were generally owned by the packing companies, and in captive service shuttling back and forth between the fields and the pickling plants. The pickles were loaded at the field into salt brine in the cars to preserve them until they got to the plant where the actual pickling was done. I don't know how long this went on, but most of the models seem to be of cars built between 1900 and the 1920's Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20308	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Athearn offered an open side car and an enclosed side "Coffin" pickle car. Revell also had an open side pickle car, as did Bachmann at one point. In wood, A-C Models had one and I believe a few other companies did too. Interesting  looking cars that add some interest to a train! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 10/9/12, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 6:53 PM   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20309	From: larry Smith	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle car [1 Attachment]

Westerfield had two coffin types.  One for H.J. Heinz and Claussen.  Ambroid also did one for the 1 / 5000 sweries.  If you look back at MR in the 50s you will also find one there. Larry Smith On 10/9/2012 8:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   Mal, While there might be couple kits out there for pickle cars I thought you might be interested in a plastic factory assembled and painted Heinz 57 pickle car by Revell. I don't collect freight cars but just happen to have this in a set. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20310	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle car [1 Attachment]

On 10/9/2012 8:16 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Mal, > > While there might be couple kits out there for pickle cars > I thought you might be interested in a plastic factory assembled and > painted Heinz 57 pickle car by Revell. I don't collect freight cars but > just happen to have this in a set. > > > Jim H > > > I forgot about that one when I listed the various models in my other post. Also in later years there was a Chinese copy of the Athearn car. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20311	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem

Jim H., Reading your problem of not receiving email, and not knowing what to tell you -- especially as emails appeared uninterupted -- I was more than concerned for you. Glad your wife found the problem, but now you have me wondering as to what she found. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20312	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

American Model Builders offers an HO pickle car conversion kit, No. 391.   http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm   Look under freight car loads.   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Athearn offered an open side car and an enclosed side "Coffin" pickle car. Revell also had an open side pickle car, as did Bachmann at one point. In wood, A-C Models had one and I believe a few other companies did too. Interesting  looking cars that add some interest to a train! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 10/9/12, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 6:53 PM   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20313	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies

Jim, Great comparison photos! Thank you again for posting them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Don, > > The pictures show a Revell F-7 Santa Fe engine and a Athearn > F-7 New Haven. I think you can see differences except on the top. The > sides have differences, the backs and the fronts as far as the number > boards which are different. I don't have a Mantua F-7 to check that. > Globe would be basically same as Athearn except for the number boards > and horns are separate . I can find no other company to match Revells. > Maybe Revell made their own. Remember they work with plastic for their > many models. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20314	From: Phil Bostian	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Hi,   Roundhouse released pickle cars in 2010.  All are sold out now, but here are some photos:   http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=40%27+pickle&CatID=THRF   You can zoom in on these pics to see the details, etc.   Phil On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote:   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20315	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Mal, Adding to the info already given in this thread, and as it's beginning to get unfolded as more members submit their input, there were numerous H0 manufacturers which produced these cars in various roadnames. You're right, in that most were open cars having verticle vats (usually four, but at least one had five). Some pickle cars were enclosed though -- and not all cars of this configuration hauled pickles as there were vinegar-vat cars too. Some of the craftsman type kits of this configuation were Manor, Laconia, A-C, L-W, Sterling Models and Main Line Models. Most of these craftsman kits were produced from the late 1940's into the early 1950's, so check those MR's for photos. While A-C has already been mentioned, those cars they offered, and which I have, are these with some reporting info (numbers, etc.): TW-1 -- (4-tank) Vinegar Tank FTCX TW-2 -- (4 tank) Ma Brown Pickle TW-3 -- (4 tank) Budlong Pickle TW-4 -- (4 tank) Monarch Pickle 3830 TW-7 -- (4 tank) Lutz & Schramm Pickle TW-8 -- (4 tank) Harbouer Pickle TW-15 - (5 tank) McNeil & Libby Pickle1362 I have one L-W Models pickle tank car -- TW-8 - Harbouer Pickle -- but as they were closely affiliated with A-C Models, I'm fairly sure all of the same cars were issued under this name, except for the kit boxes saying "L-W Models" on them, The boxes were also the same design as A-C's, but a different color. Laconia issued one pickle car -- BR-7 Libby McNeil & Libby Pickles (L.Mc.N.& L.)-- in three different reporting numbers -- #'s 1465, 1466 and 1467. This was a 36' refrigerator car. Main Line Models produced HR-14 Heinz Pickles. Sterling Models produced their P-1 Pickle Car (roadname?) and P-2 Heinz Pickle Car. Manor produced a pickle car, which I can't find right now to give you any information on it. Quite possibly, other manufacturers also produced pickle cars in addition to those mentioned in this thread, but this should get you started in your search. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20316	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

And to tie in with the discussion on vintage Revell -- I have a Revell pickle car and a wood kit for one (I will get the manufacturer name when I get home from work.) When I was a kid in the 50s and early 60s, it seems like pickle cars were all the rage in HO. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Phil Bostian <Phil.Bostian@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Roundhouse released pickle cars in 2010. All are sold out now, but here are some photos: > > http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=40%27+pickle&CatID=THRF > > You can zoom in on these pics to see the details, etc. > > Phil > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: > > > **

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20317	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem

Ray F W ,                  I have a new computer system that I don't know much about. There is a "Get Mail " place in the upper left hand corner you click on once to get new messages all the time.. Right aside in the same box is a little arrow. When you click on it a little drop down menu comes down. One line says get all new messages. The other says something that must hold all messages.  Somewhere along the line I must have clicked on the wrong thing and it held my messages. When I had my wife check it out she hit the right thing and 48 messages come up. . Good to have someone knows way more then me.                                                                           Jim H On 10/10/2012 7:10 AM, erieberk@... wrote:   Jim H., Reading your problem of not receiving email, and not knowing what to tell you -- especially as emails appeared uninterupted -- I was more than concerned for you. Glad your wife found the problem, but now you have me wondering as to what she found. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20318	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Red Ball and other kitmakers also offered Heiz refrigerator cars with colotful pickle billboards (EACH CAR WAS AN ORIGINAL ARTIST'S CREATION- no "standard side"). We also offered an open pickle car kit in the 1970 era. It was based on a prototype car I photographed (in service)in Detroit about 1960. Our HOMETOWN structure line offered a Pickle Plant kit based on a prototype still in active use in Teeswater, Ontario about the same time. Small plants like this were common in the region (many with the name H J Heinz on them)and were the points at which harvested pickles were loaded into the brine tanks. The tanks were built into a loading platform for rail cars. [Loading (from brine tank to car) was a hand process]. They could then be shipped to the canning factory in the pickle cars (when needed)during the months following harvest. These should be an interesting addition on layouts as wooden vinegar cars would also call. Sechlers, a century old pickle cannery near us, receives the crop by truck today and has many dozens of huge outside wood vats where they are held (in brine)until processed and canned. Sechler's Pickle Co, St Joe, IN has a website and offers factory tours much of the year. Your grandaughter can learn from it I'm sure. The cucumbers are mainly grown nearby in Michigan now. Though they are an old firm, they seem to have always operated this way and in earlier days their only use of rail (as close as I can determine) was to ship wooden kegs of finished pickles. Large city firms (like Heinz) had to use the collection depot and resulting bulk rail shipment from it to processingh/canning plant in Pittsburg. A special issue of AMERICAN HERITAGE many years ago had info & pictures of Heinz colorful cars. They pioneerred in the "big national company" approach to production and marketing. Sechler has their own regional brand (a premium product) but also cans private label for many other firms and chain stores. Many other vegetables are also processed and pickled. It is likely they would also be shipped in pickle cars toi the cannery, but they would be more time sensitive I suspect. Merle Rice --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Athearn offered an open side car and an enclosed side "Coffin" pickle car. > > Revell also had an open side pickle car, as did Bachmann at one point. > > In wood, A-C Models had one and I believe a few other companies did too. > > Interesting  looking cars that add some interest to a train! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 10/9/12, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: > > From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 6:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. > > > > Malcolm Laughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20319	From: RalphB	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Phil Bostian wrote: > > Roundhouse released pickle cars in 2010. ----------------------- Those are RTR versions of the Athearn car. When Horizon Hobby bought both Athearn and MDC/Roundhouse, they rebranded many of the cars with the Athearn name applied to "modern" cars and Roundhouse applied to "old time" cars. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20320	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Vinegar was hauled in wood tank cars with one or two horizontal tanks.  The ole AHM vinegar car is typical.  The only company that I know of that used a pickle tub car to haul vinegar was Milwaukee Vinegar, which bought an old pickle car and used it.  Then when the milk business subsided, some vinegar companies bought the used milk cars with stainless tanks inside the boxcar type body.   I have photos of many vinegar and pickle cars and belonged to the NMRA Pickles In Mineature special interest group and have all of their publications.  Recently, there was a great article on pickle cars in Railroad Model Craftsman, sometime in 2012.  I can look up the date, if you want.    Is there a picture of a pickle tub car with 5 tanks?   Several wood vinegar cars still exist, but there are no pickle tub cars.  There were two.  One was in the Kentucky RR Museum and was washed away by an Ohio River Flood.  This left the only other one, a Green Bay Foods (Peter Piper Pickles) car in the National RR Museum at Green Bay, WI.  However, since the powers to be are more interested in locomotives than freight cars, it was scrapped after several years of being on display.  They do have a Richter Vinegar tank car there and the other Richter Vinegar wood car is at North Freedom, WI, in very bad shape, because someone didn't realize that a wood tank has to be kept full of water, or else the staves shrink and the tank falls apart.   I don't know how to post photos, but can email a photo if you are interested.  Or tell me how to post a photo.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20321	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

i have an athearn pickle car with closed sides, rather like the westerfield coffin car but more modern.  because it's enclosed, there are no vats inside.  george From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20322	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies

I have a couple of Revell die cast HO F7s. They are produced for the Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jr. sets. There are also Revell die cast HO flat cars with 1/64 replicas of Earnhardt cars. When I questioned Revell/Monogram about a catalog of the NASCAR equipment, I got back a rather nasty reply stating that they do not have catalogs and don't know the extent of the NASCAR equipment they produce.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:27 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Revell Bodies   Jim, Great comparison photos! Thank you again for posting them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Don, > > The pictures show a Revell F-7 Santa Fe engine and a Athearn > F-7 New Haven. I think you can see differences except on the top. The > sides have differences, the backs and the fronts as far as the number > boards which are different. I don't have a Mantua F-7 to check that. > Globe would be basically same as Athearn except for the number boards > and horns are separate . I can find no other company to match Revells. > Maybe Revell made their own. Remember they work with plastic for their > many models. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20323	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

I've been buying the Revell pickle car at meets and off ebay. It now seems like everyone knows I'm buying them and jack up the price. I used to be able to get them for around $5.00, but now that's the shipping cost on ebay and the auction price have gone above $15.00. Oh well, I have a nice string of about 12 cars. Still trying to decide if I should "devalue" the cars and change over to Kadees.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:13 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars   And to tie in with the discussion on vintage Revell -- I have a Revell pickle car and a wood kit for one (I will get the manufacturer name when I get home from work.) When I was a kid in the 50s and early 60s, it seems like pickle cars were all the rage in HO. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Phil Bostian <Phil.Bostian@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Roundhouse released pickle cars in 2010. All are sold out now, but here are some photos: > > http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=40%27+pickle&CatID=THRF > > You can zoom in on these pics to see the details, etc. > > Phil > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: > > > **

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20324	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem

Which I my case is my grandchildren.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:14 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Found Problem     Ray F W ,                  I have a new computer system that I don't know much about. There is a "Get Mail " place in the upper left hand corner you click on once to get new messages all the time.. Right aside in the same box is a little arrow. When you click on it a little drop down menu comes down. One line says get all new messages. The other says something that must hold all messages.  Somewhere along the line I must have clicked on the wrong thing and it held my messages. When I had my wife check it out she hit the right thing and 48 messages come up. . Good to have someone knows way more then me.                                                                           Jim H Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4) Recent Activity: ·         New Members 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20325	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Yes, that is a good one Steve.  Go to HO and select LOADS to see the kit.  It goes for  $37.95 (not cheap), but probably a reasonable price.  You have your choice of using an Athearn or Tichy flat car.  I love the Tichy flat car, but in many cases you would want to use the Athearn one.  Mostly it depends on what decals you want to use.  If you use the decals provided with this kit, either car is ok.  But, if you want to use the Forman Decals provided by Dan's Resin Casting. http://www.dansresincasting.com/lcforman.htm You will want to use the Athearn fishbelly side frame version. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tenncentralrwy@... Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:09 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Pickle cars   American Model Builders offers an HO pickle car conversion kit, No. 391.   http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm   Look under freight car loads.   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Athearn offered an open side car and an enclosed side "Coffin" pickle car. Revell also had an open side pickle car, as did Bachmann at one point. In wood, A-C Models had one and I believe a few other companies did too. Interesting  looking cars that add some interest to a train! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 10/9/12, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 6:53 PM   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20326	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Hi Malcolm, Pickle factories always had pickle tub cars in the old days.  I doubt they do anymore, but there were many pickle tub cars on the railroads in the past.  As some of the folks here have already posted, there were also many model manufacturers and kit makers that offered pickle cars.  I believe they all had tubs, but some had siding that covered the tubs.  Many of the pickle cars had visible tubs.    I built a pickle car once from a magazine article in an older Model Railroader and later when I got decals for it from Dan's resin casting, http://www.dansresincasting.com/lcforman.htm I had to rebuild it.  :o)  The construction article had the pickle car use 4 by 10's or some such lumber for the framing, but that would not accommodate the decals, so I rebuilt it with fish belly sides. That was ok, since this car needed to be repaired and while I was at it, I added superdetailed brake work, hand grabs, cut levers, etc.  Actually, the NMRA Bulletin for December 2009 had an article with photos and drawings of the LC Forman car and the pickle factory in upstate New York of the same name.  Just in case, you want to hunt down the article for extra credit. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mlaughlinnyc@... Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 23:53:55 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20327	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

There is a photo of the Revell Heinz 57  Pickle Car on my web site at www.marx-trains.com/revell/pickel-car-001.html   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars   Vinegar was hauled in wood tank cars with one or two horizontal tanks.  The ole AHM vinegar car is typical.  The only company that I know of that used a pickle tub car to haul vinegar was Milwaukee Vinegar, which bought an old pickle car and used it.  Then when the milk business subsided, some vinegar companies bought the used milk cars with stainless tanks inside the boxcar type body.   I have photos of many vinegar and pickle cars and belonged to the NMRA Pickles In Mineature special interest group and have all of their publications.  Recently, there was a great article on pickle cars in Railroad Model Craftsman, sometime in 2012.  I can look up the date, if you want.    Is there a picture of a pickle tub car with 5 tanks?   Several wood vinegar cars still exist, but there are no pickle tub cars.  There were two.  One was in the Kentucky RR Museum and was washed away by an Ohio River Flood.  This left the only other one, a Green Bay Foods (Peter Piper Pickles) car in the National RR Museum at Green Bay, WI.  However, since the powers to be are more interested in locomotives than freight cars, it was scrapped after several years of being on display.  They do have a Richter Vinegar tank car there and the other Richter Vinegar wood car is at North Freedom, WI, in very bad shape, because someone didn't realize that a wood tank has to be kept full of water, or else the staves shrink and the tank falls apart.   I don't know how to post photos, but can email a photo if you are interested.  Or tell me how to post a photo.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20328	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Buy 2 Athearn Pickle cars, mount a Kadee on one end of each car and leave the X2f coupler on the other end...  then you have 2 cars to use for connecting your train to Kadee equipped locomotives without altering your collectibles.  Having 2 cars like that is a good cost saving solution for making up special trains.  I did the dame thing with strings of hoppers, box cars and reefers in order to operate trains and not spend money I did not have. Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA ---------------------------------------------------------------   On 10/10/2012 10:32 AM, My-Yahoo-Groups wrote:   I've been buying the Revell pickle car at meets and off ebay. It now seems like everyone knows I'm buying them and jack up the price. I used to be able to get them for around $5.00, but now that's the shipping cost on ebay and the auction price have gone above $15.00. Oh well, I have a nice string of about 12 cars. Still trying to decide if I should "devalue" the cars and change over to Kadees.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:13 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars   And to tie in with the discussion on vintage Revell -- I have a Revell pickle car and a wood kit for one (I will get the manufacturer name when I get home from work.) When I was a kid in the 50s and early 60s, it seems like pickle cars were all the rage in HO. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Phil Bostian <Phil.Bostian@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Roundhouse released pickle cars in 2010. All are sold out now, but here are some photos: > > http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=40%27+pickle&CatID=THRF > > You can zoom in on these pics to see the details, etc. > > Phil > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: > > > **

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20329	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Rare Athearn International Minerals and Chemical sets

Hi Paul, Thanks for the info. I managed to gather up some info yesterday concerning this set. I think it was a pretty sweet purchase myself. I stumbled upon the poorly listed auction with less than an hour to go. I recognized the paint scheme from a photo in a thread on the TYCO forum and it stuck in my minds eye. As soon as I saw the photos, I remembered it being something special, but could not remember the specifics. To have one set of the very first promotional sets is awesome, to have two is unimaginable.  I'll post better pictures when it comes.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Paul Ilacqua <ilcq3@...> To: a69mustang4me@... Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] I just purchased 2 Hi-F GP7 decorated for International Minerals and Chemical sets [3 Attachments] Hi Sean,    That set is listed in the Standard Guide to Athearn Trains (the Bible), by Tim Blaisdell & Ed Urmston Jr. That is probably the rarest of the special run sets. As of the printing of the guide, only two complete sets were know to exist, and only one box. Since the printing. another boxed set has turned up. Ed could tell you more. Think I still have some contact info for him. Contact me off list if interested.   Enjoy That Rare Set !   Paul Ilacqua ilcq3@...  To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:27:45 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] I just purchased 2 Hi-F GP7 decorated for International Minerals and Chemical sets [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey Guys, Can anyone tell me a little on the history of this set? I have two complete sets with engine, hopper car, tank car, boxcar and caboose (without boxes). I heard they were listed both the Greenberg and Krause guides or something like that. Anyone know anything? Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20330	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

I remember having a kit version of the Athearn car back in the 60's that came with both vats and wire bracing and a plastic side panel and could be assembled either way. Dale Smith On 10/9/2012 6:16 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   As another member pointed out, Athearn did the most popular one, in two versions, one open side showing the four vats, and one closed side http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/1979964879/in/set-72157603108686483 http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/1979965131/in/set-72157603108686483 Craftsman type wood cars were also done by Amboid/Northeastern and Ye Olde Huff n Puff( which was a reissue of possibly LW) There were also some newer Resin kits from Westerfield The cars were generally owned by the packing companies, and in captive service shuttling back and forth between the fields and the pickling plants. The pickles were loaded at the field into salt brine in the cars to preserve them until they got to the plant where the actual pickling was done. I don't know how long this went on, but most of the models seem to be of cars built between 1900 and the 1920's Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20331	From: Rhbale@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies

I seem to recall that Cox supplied some items to Revell. It might be worth comparing that source as well.    Richard Bale News Editor Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine. Always free at mrhmag.com   In a message dated 10/10/2012 4:27:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mattjcoleman@... writes:   Jim, Great comparison photos! Thank you again for posting them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Don, > > The pictures show a Revell F-7 Santa Fe engine and a Athearn > F-7 New Haven. I think you can see differences except on the top. The > sides have differences, the backs and the fronts as far as the number > boards which are different. I don't have a Mantua F-7 to check that. > Globe would be basically same as Athearn except for the number boards > and horns are separate . I can find no other company to match Revells. > Maybe Revell made their own. Remember they work with plastic for their > many models. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20332	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

On 10/10/2012 7:27 AM, Phil Bostian wrote: Hi,   Roundhouse released pickle cars in 2010.  All are sold out now, but here are some photos:   http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=40%27+pickle&CatID=THRF   You can zoom in on these pics to see the details, etc.   Phil On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote:   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin That's basically differentroad names pn the Heinz car that's been around since ca. 1960. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20333	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

On 10/10/2012 8:24 AM, corlissbs@... wrote: Vinegar was hauled in wood tank cars with one or two horizontal tanks.  The ole AHM vinegar car is typical.  The only company that I know of that used a pickle tub car to haul vinegar was Milwaukee Vinegar, which bought an old pickle car and used it.  Then when the milk business subsided, some vinegar companies bought the used milk cars with stainless tanks inside the boxcar type body.   I have photos of many vinegar and pickle cars and belonged to the NMRA Pickles In Mineature special interest group and have all of their publications.  Recently, there was a great article on pickle cars in Railroad Model Craftsman, sometime in 2012.  I can look up the date, if you want.    Is there a picture of a pickle tub car with 5 tanks?   Several wood vinegar cars still exist, but there are no pickle tub cars.  There were two.  One was in the Kentucky RR Museum and was washed away by an Ohio River Flood.  This left the only other one, a Green Bay Foods (Peter Piper Pickles) car in the National RR Museum at Green Bay, WI.  However, since the powers to be are more interested in locomotives than freight cars, it was scrapped after several years of being on display.  They do have a Richter Vinegar tank car there and the other Richter Vinegar wood car is at North Freedom, WI, in very bad shape, because someone didn't realize that a wood tank has to be kept full of water, or else the staves shrink and the tank falls apart.   I don't know how to post photos, but can email a photo if you are interested.  Or tell me how to post a photo.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI     Posting photos is easy.  You can just attach it an email to the list,  If you want to make a permanent album go to the group home page and on the left side click on "photos".  On the upper right hand cirner of the new page you;ll see :create album:.  Click on that and follow the prompts. -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20334	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Found Problem

Jim H., Well I guess that clarifies things. It's good your wife knows something about how this new computer works. Maybe I shouldn't consider upgrading mine as I may have the same problems < g >. At least it was something simple and nothing actually wrong anywhere. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20335	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Revell Bodies

The Cox body is an early F3. Very different.  Brad Smith Franklin WI Sent from my iPod On Oct 10, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Rhbale@... wrote:   I seem to recall that Cox supplied some items to Revell. It might be worth comparing that source as well.    Richard Bale News Editor Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine. Always free at mrhmag.com   In a message dated 10/10/2012 4:27:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mattjcoleman@... writes:   Jim, Great comparison photos! Thank you again for posting them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Don, > > The pictures show a Revell F-7 Santa Fe engine and a Athearn > F-7 New Haven. I think you can see differences except on the top. The > sides have differences, the backs and the fronts as far as the number > boards which are different. I don't have a Mantua F-7 to check that. > Globe would be basically same as Athearn except for the number boards > and horns are separate . I can find no other company to match Revells. > Maybe Revell made their own. Remember they work with plastic for their > many models. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20336	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

For what it's worth, the wood kit mentioned in my previous post was an A-C Models Libby Pickle Car -- all wood. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > And to tie in with the discussion on vintage Revell -- I have a Revell pickle car and a wood kit for one (I will get the manufacturer name when I get home from work.) > > When I was a kid in the 50s and early 60s, it seems like pickle cars were all the rage in HO. > > Matt Coleman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Phil Bostian <Phil.Bostian@> wrote: > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20337	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

On 10/9/2012 8:16 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > As another member pointed out, Athearn did the most popular one, in two > versions, one open side showing the four vats, and one closed side > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/1979964879/in/set-72157603108686483 That looks almost like the one that I have, except that on mine the vats are painted the same boxcar red as the rest of the car rather than yellow. It also has screw-on coupler pocket covers rather than Athearn's typical snap-on covers. The car number is the same, 73. -- Rick Jones Camping Tip #4 - In emergency situations, you can survive in the wilderness by shooting small game with a slingshot made from the elastic waistband of your underwear.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20338	From: Steven D Johnson	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Vic,   Thanks for the information on the decals by Dan’s Resin Casting.  I was not aware of that company.   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:41 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Yes, that is a good one Steve.  Go to HO and select LOADS to see the kit.  It goes for  $37.95 (not cheap), but probably a reasonable price.  You have your choice of using an Athearn or Tichy flat car.  I love the Tichy flat car, but in many cases you would want to use the Athearn one.  Mostly it depends on what decals you want to use.  If you use the decals provided with this kit, either car is ok.  But, if you want to use the Forman Decals provided by Dan's Resin Casting. http://www.dansresincasting.com/lcforman.htm You will want to use the Athearn fishbelly side frame version. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tenncentralrwy@... Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:09 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     American Model Builders offers an HO pickle car conversion kit, No. 391.   http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm   Look under freight car loads.   Steve Johnson     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:18 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Athearn offered an open side car and an enclosed side "Coffin" pickle car. Revell also had an open side pickle car, as did Bachmann at one point. In wood, A-C Models had one and I believe a few other companies did too. Interesting  looking cars that add some interest to a train! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 10/9/12, Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 6:53 PM   My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. Malcolm Laughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20339	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

On 10/10/2012 5:48 PM, Rick Jones wrote: > On 10/9/2012 8:16 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: >> As another member pointed out, Athearn did the most popular one, in two >> versions, one open side showing the four vats, and one closed side >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/1979964879/in/set-72157603108686483 > That looks almost like the one that I have, except that on mine the > vats are painted the same boxcar red as the rest of the car rather than > yellow. It also has screw-on coupler pocket covers rather than Athearn's > typical snap-on covers. The car number is the same, 73. > It's still an Athearn, or possibly a Lionel made by Athearn. The screw-on covers indicate that it was made before the mid to late 1960's when Athearn switched over to the metal snaps. The boxcar red tanks are relatively uncommon but I have seen them before. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20340	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Hi Don, I noticed the advice you gave Brad on posting photos, but how do you "just attach it" to the message. I know that Jim H. had problems with this in the beginning, but we know he's caught on to how it's done early on. I still don't have the first clue on how it's done and yet everyone else is doing it like it's part of learning to talk or riding a bike, but for me, posting a photo holds the same problem as attaching it -- it's one and the same problem. I know it makes it a bit easier if having a digital camera, but as a railfan, in addition to being a modeler, I still find that my five film SLR cameras are best suited for my purposes and don't plan on getting a digital camera anytime soon, if at all. I know I'd need to scan a print (even though I just take slides) and somehow send it to the computer somewhere, but that's as much as I know. Any help would be appreciated, even though I know that I'd catch on much better if someone were right here to actually walked me through it. It's not as instictive to me, as it is with most other 'puter users. Then again, nothing on the computer really is. Regards, Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20341	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Ray,   You would need to get a slide scanner. There some reasonable priced units available today that do a decent enough job for web posting. Or maybe your local photo shop or even a Walgreens can do a CD with from your slides. I know they do it from film. In fact the last roll of film I took them I just had a CD made and declined having prints made at all. That was because I wanted to post the photos on the web. If I ever decide I need prints I just email the digital photos to Walgreens and have them printed.   Then like don said you can attach your photos right to your emailed message. But, on most (if not all) Yahoo groups you must use the email function of you mail program. If you go to the group’s web site and try to use the “Post” function you probably won’t be able to do any attachments. But if you want your photos posted to the sites “Photos” section open the site and go to the photos section. Then click create album and, as Don said, follow the prompts. Posting is really rather easy once you.ve done it.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:05 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Hi Don, I noticed the advice you gave Brad on posting photos, but how do you "just attach it" to the message. I know that Jim H. had problems with this in the beginning, but we know he's caught on to how it's done early on. I still don't have the first clue on how it's done and yet everyone else is doing it like it's part of learning to talk or riding a bike, but for me, posting a photo holds the same problem as attaching it -- it's one and the same problem. I know it makes it a bit easier if having a digital camera, but as a railfan, in addition to being a modeler, I still find that my five film SLR cameras are best suited for my purposes and don't plan on getting a digital camera anytime soon, if at all. I know I'd need to scan a print (even though I just take slides) and somehow send it to the computer somewhere, but that's as much as I know. Any help would be appreciated, even though I know that I'd catch on much better if someone were right here to actually walked me through it. It's not as instictive to me, as it is with most other 'puter users. Then again, nothing on the computer really is. Regards, Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20342	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Rare Athearn International Minerals and Chemical sets

Hi Sean, Just wanted to let you know that I checked the Greenberg Guides (both the Athearn and the Varney) yesterday, but didn't come across it. Glad to see that Paul found it in the Standard Athearn Guide (Blaisdell & Urmston Jr.). Enjoy that very rare vintage piece! A great find. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20343	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Mal and Group, I found my collection of Manor model kits, including their pickle car. Manor models came unpainted and undecorated -- like the later Quality Craft, Northeastern Scale Models, etc. -- and are printed on the box end with the roadname, having either Walthers or Champ decals included. The usual cars (Box Cars, Hoppers, gondolas, etc,) came with Walthers decals in a selection of 39 different common carrier roadnames, and a Champ decal set for the data. The more unusual cars, like the pickle car, came with a set of Champ decals of the private owner car company. My pickle car came with a Champ Heinz 57 decal set. BTW, in browsing through a few "newer:" Walthers catalogs, I came across an AHM plastic RTR two-vat Virginia and Truckee car in the 1980 edition. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20344	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Attachments : Pickle car.jpg Attached is a pic of the Green Bay Foods pickle car that was in the Green Bay, WI railroad museum.  Except for the tanks, this was an all steel car and was the last one in existence.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20345	From: cwrailman	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Malcolm, Many years ago, E.L. Moore did a scratchbuilt Pickle factory which was later copied and sold as a plastic kit by I believe AHM.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mal" <mlaughlinnyc@...> wrote: > > My granddaughter as her eight grade graduation project is doing research on the history of pickling and naturally didn't know that there were special railroad cars for pickles. I think I remember a pickle car kit. Wasn't it several vertical barrels mounted on a basic flat car ? Can someone tell the manufacturer of that kit. I'm trying to find the photo that once appeared in Model Railroader. Thanks. > > Malcolm Laughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20346	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

The two vat V&T car is not a pickle car, but is an early tank car.  Cars like this were used to transport water and oil.  Pickle cars have a roof and hatches for loading the pickles with a wheelbarrow and dipping them out of the vats with "fish nets."   Brad Smith Franklin. WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20347	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Hi John, Many thanks for your help. I'll look into getting a slide scanner, although for taking model photos, I could always use color print film (shouldn't need anything but a normal scanner then?). Having a number of camera bodies, I wouldn't need to go without having one still loaded with slide film for the prototype pics,. As for sending a photo with a message, just like anything else, it's easy once you know how; I've just never done it before and don't know where to even start -- even though for many people it's as easy as chewing a wad of gum. I appreciate your instructions in trying to clarify this, but telling me to attach my photo right to my emailed message says nothing more than what Don just said when there's no explanation on how to do that (I have no idea how to "attach" anything). I'll try following the prompts though, as you suggested, although I didn't think it's necessary to go to the Photo section unless I wanted it stored there for others to go to. I see many photos here that appear right with the message without me having to go to the Photo section to retrieve it. Wouldn't really matter which way I could get a photo up there though. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20348	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Ray,   When sending an email from your email program there should be a clickable button or icon that is labeled “Attachments.” Often it will use a drawing of a paper clip as its icon. Once you click that you will be taken to dialogue box that will tell you what to do. Generally there will be a search bar that will let you find the photo(s) on your hard drive. Once you locate and select the photo(s) there will be a button you click to actually attach them to you email. Once you click that you will be taken back to your email and you will see the titles of your photo(s) have been added to your email. Click “send” and you are done.   BTW if using print film the developer can put the photos on a CD in addition to making prints or even instead of making prints. That will save to trouble of scanning any prints.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:17 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Hi John, Many thanks for your help. I'll look into getting a slide scanner, although for taking model photos, I could always use color print film (shouldn't need anything but a normal scanner then?). Having a number of camera bodies, I wouldn't need to go without having one still loaded with slide film for the prototype pics,. As for sending a photo with a message, just like anything else, it's easy once you know how; I've just never done it before and don't know where to even start -- even though for many people it's as easy as chewing a wad of gum. I appreciate your instructions in trying to clarify this, but telling me to attach my photo right to my emailed message says nothing more than what Don just said when there's no explanation on how to do that (I have no idea how to "attach" anything). I'll try following the prompts though, as you suggested, although I didn't think it's necessary to go to the Photo section unless I wanted it stored there for others to go to. I see many photos here that appear right with the message without me having to go to the Photo section to retrieve it. Wouldn't really matter which way I could get a photo up there though. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20349	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

On 10/11/2012 8:04 AM, erieberk@... wrote: > Hi Don, > > I noticed the advice you gave Brad on posting photos, but how do you "just > attach it" to the message. I know that Jim H. had problems with this in the > beginning, but we know he's caught on to how it's done early on. I still > don't have the first clue on how it's done and yet everyone else is doing it > like it's part of learning to talk or riding a bike, but for me, posting a > photo holds the same problem as attaching it -- it's one and the same problem. > > I know it makes it a bit easier if having a digital camera, but as a > railfan, in addition to being a modeler, I still find that my five film SLR > cameras are best suited for my purposes and don't plan on getting a digital camera > anytime soon, if at all. I know I'd need to scan a print (even though I > just take slides) and somehow send it to the computer somewhere, but that's as > much as I know. Any help would be appreciated, even though I know that I'd > catch on much better if someone were right here to actually walked me > through it. It's not as instictive to me, as it is with most other 'puter users. > Then again, nothing on the computer really is. > > Regards, > > Ray</HTML> > > > - The method varies with how you're reading your mail. With outlook, outlook express or Thunderbird there's button on your tool bar that says "attach files", usually indicated by a paper clip icon. Clicking on that opens up a window that lets you browse your hard drive for the picture or pictures you want to attach. I'm not sure hpw to do it if you read amd reply onlinefrom the group page, hopefully someone who's done it can help there. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20350	From: Charles	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

I was also a film holdout for a long time. But I got over it (and never looked back). You might consider it. (At least perhaps get a low cost point and shoot to start.) Another alternative is a "slide copier" which is basically a gimmick you mount on your film or digital camera that holds the slide and you simple take a picture of it. Only costs $50 or so. If you don't want to get a digital camera, you probably know somebody who has one and can help. Here is an example: http://www.amazon.com/Opteka-Slide-Copier-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000EQ24Z4 Here is a low end standalone approach that is probably plenty good enough for the task at hand: http://www.amazon.com/SVP-PS9700-Digital-Scanner-Inches/dp/B002UQPPTI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349983092&sr=8-4&keywords=slide+copier There are also high end scanners that cost hundreds. I recently just held up a slide to a reasonably uniform light source and took a picture with a digital camera. Was "good enough" believe it or not. As mentioned, you can probably take slides to you local photo store which might have a superb scanner, but it doesn't many times of doing that to have paid for your own technology since it so cheap nowadays. Enjoy. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Hi John, > > Many thanks for your help. I'll look into getting a slide scanner, > although for taking model photos, I could always use color print film (shouldn't > need anything but a normal scanner then?). Having a number of camera bodies, > I wouldn't need to go without having one still loaded with slide film for > the prototype pics,. > > As for sending a photo with a message, just like anything else, it's easy > once you know how; I've just never done it before and don't know where to > even start -- even though for many people it's as easy as chewing a wad of gum. > I appreciate your instructions in trying to clarify this, but telling me > to attach my photo right to my emailed message says nothing more than what > Don just said when there's no explanation on how to do that (I have no idea > how to "attach" anything). I'll try following the prompts though, as you > suggested, although I didn't think it's necessary to go to the Photo section > unless I wanted it stored there for others to go to. I see many photos here > that appear right with the message without me having to go to the Photo > section to retrieve it. Wouldn't really matter which way I could get a photo up > there though. > > Ray F.W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20351	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

For a real good article on pickle cars, see the December, 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, pages 82-89, THE PICKLE INDUSTRY AND RAILROADING.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20352	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Attachments : unknown vat car.jpg All, I've had this for a while. Used to be completely intact until a four-legged furry one decided to get her paws on it. No markings, has Varney trucks and Mantua loop couplers. Reminds me, construction-wise of an O scale Walthers vat car that I have over at my dad's house. Any ideas of make? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote: From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 6:27 PM   For a real good article on pickle cars, see the December, 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, pages 82-89, THE PICKLE INDUSTRY AND RAILROADING.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20353	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars [1 Attachment]

The car looks to be the remains of an M B Austin kit. Garry Spear On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:01 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I've had this for a while. Used to be completely intact until a four-legged furry one decided to get her paws on it. No markings, has Varney trucks and Mantua loop couplers. Reminds me, construction-wise of an O scale Walthers vat car that I have over at my dad's house. Any ideas of make? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote: From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 6:27 PM   For a real good article on pickle cars, see the December, 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, pages 82-89, THE PICKLE INDUSTRY AND RAILROADING.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20354	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars [1 Attachment]

It looks like the builder didn't put any roof hatches on the model. I would expect to see them, or would the entire roof get removed for access to the pickle tanks?? I wonder why there is such a large gap between the middle tanks. Was there some sort of cross-crossing side to side bracing there to strengthen the prototype car? Those tanks would be a heavy enough load when full of brine and vegetables. Maybe that roof had load bearing bracing under it as well? It would be interesting to see a construction drawing of one of these pickle cars showing the timbers and structure of it. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: All, I've had this for a while. Used to be completely intact until a four-legged furry one decided to get her paws on it. No markings, has Varney trucks and Mantua loop couplers. Reminds me, construction-wise of an O scale Walthers vat car that I have over at my dad's house. Any ideas of make? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote: From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 6:27 PM   For a real good article on pickle cars, see the December, 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, pages 82-89, THE PICKLE INDUSTRY AND RAILROADING.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20355	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

As I could find very little info on them on HO Seeker, does anyone have any info on  MB Austin? All I could find looks like they had freight cars made of brass at least. The car looked somewhat incomplete when I got it;  No lettering nor placards, nor evidence of ever having either. Was a workable car until a certain feline made it into a new toy! All in all should be an easy fix at least. This topic has kind of made me interested in fixing it! Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 10:06 PM   The car looks to be the remains of an M B Austin kit. Garry Spear On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:01 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I've had this for a while. Used to be completely intact until a four-legged furry one decided to get her paws on it. No markings, has Varney trucks and Mantua loop couplers. Reminds me, construction-wise of an O scale Walthers vat car that I have over at my dad's house. Any ideas of make? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote: From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 6:27 PM   For a real good article on pickle cars, see the December, 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, pages 82-89, THE PICKLE INDUSTRY AND RAILROADING.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20356	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Mike, My O Scale Walthers car is very similar, and does have diagonal cross bracing between the inner two vats. Indeed this car has no hatches, and also my Walthers car has one hatch to a vat, two on the left side of the car, two on the right, staggered. Making hatches will be pretty simple. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 10:30 PM   It looks like the builder didn't put any roof hatches on the model. I would expect to see them, or would the entire roof get removed for access to the pickle tanks?? I wonder why there is such a large gap between the middle tanks. Was there some sort of cross-crossing side to side bracing there to strengthen the prototype car? Those tanks would be a heavy enough load when full of brine and vegetables. Maybe that roof had load bearing bracing under it as well? It would be interesting to see a construction drawing of one of these pickle cars showing the timbers and structure of it. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: All, I've had this for a while. Used to be completely intact until a four-legged furry one decided to get her paws on it. No markings, has Varney trucks and Mantua loop couplers. Reminds me, construction-wise of an O scale Walthers vat car that I have over at my dad's house. Any ideas of make? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/11/12, corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> wrote: From: corlissbs@... <corlissbs@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 6:27 PM   For a real good article on pickle cars, see the December, 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, pages 82-89, THE PICKLE INDUSTRY AND RAILROADING.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20357	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

I think I found a very similar car. Page 11 of this magazine has a detailed article on building a pickle car and it looks to have a structure very similar to your HO model. Have a look... http://www.oscalemag.com/docs/ost_9.pdf Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: As I could find very little info on them on HO Seeker, does anyone have any info on  MB Austin? All I could find looks like they had freight cars made of brass at least. The car looked somewhat incomplete when I got it;  No lettering nor placards, nor evidence of ever having either. Was a workable car until a certain feline made it into a new toy! All in all should be an easy fix at least. This topic has kind of made me interested in fixing it! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20358	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Thanks once again John, for your more detailed instructions on Attachments. I'll give it a try soon, after taking some model pics. If I have any problems, I trust I'll be able to contact you off-line to prevent clogging up the List with O/T messages (?). Best Regards, Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20359	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: O/T Pickle cars

Chuck, Many thanks for your onput and the links. I'll certainly give it all some consideration. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20360	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: O/T Pickle cars

Thanks Don, I don't receive my emails via Dialog and I don't have Thunderbird; I just receive my emails normally, as they come. Don't know if it's via Outlook or by Outlook Express -- which tells you I'm ffaaarrr from being any kind of computer guru not even knowing that < g >. Do I have any other alternatives (LOL)? Thanks again! Ray</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20361	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Brad, Thanks for the alert on the December '11 RMC article. Yes, the AHM two-vat car is not a pickle car (I never said it was), but is yet another example of a car having verticle vats, like the vinegar car. And yes, it's even advertised by Walthers as a "tank car," but then too, so are the A-C Models pickle cars advertised in Ma Webster's Model Railroad Equipment catalog also listed as tank cars. In any case, they make for a very different and interesting type of car on the layout, even if there's no excuse to haul one. Thanks again for the heads-up; I'll dig that article out as it's not very far back. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20362	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Hi Mike, This is really cool.  I built one of these back around February of 1972 from the Eric Stevens article.  It was my 3rd scratchbuilding effort and came out very nice.  At the time, I painted it green, because I felt that a good pickle color, but I never was able to find suitable decals.  Over the years the car bounced around a bit and showed its age.  A couple of years ago, I rebuilt it with fishbelly sides, detailed it and repainted it silver and installed LC Forman decals on it.  It is on the layout these days and gets lots of comments.  Mostly; where can I get that kit? :o) Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mwbauers55@... Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:38:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars   I think I found a very similar car. Page 11 of this magazine has a detailed article on building a pickle car and it looks to have a structure very similar to your HO model. Have a look... http://www.oscalemag.com/docs/ost_9.pdf Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: As I could find very little info on them on HO Seeker, does anyone have any info on  MB Austin? All I could find looks like they had freight cars made of brass at least. The car looked somewhat incomplete when I got it;  No lettering nor placards, nor evidence of ever having either. Was a workable car until a certain feline made it into a new toy! All in all should be an easy fix at least. This topic has kind of made me interested in fixing it! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20363	From: Dst8596587@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Attachments : pickle car-20363.JPG Here is an old pickle car I have had for years. It was built by Tri-ang (Great Britain) Top Stokes  -----Original Message----- From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 12, 2012 9:30 am Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars   Hi Mike, This is really cool.  I built one of these back around February of 1972 from the Eric Stevens article.  It was my 3rd scratchbuilding effort and came out very nice.  At the time, I painted it green, because I felt that a good pickle color, but I never was able to find suitable decals.  Over the years the car bounced around a bit and showed its age.  A couple of years ago, I rebuilt it with fishbelly sides, detailed it and repainted it silver and installed LC Forman decals on it.  It is on the layout these days and gets lots of comments.  Mostly; where can I get that kit? :o) Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mwbauers55@... Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:38:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Pickle cars   I think I found a very similar car. Page 11 of this magazine has a detailed article on building a pickle car and it looks to have a structure very similar to your HO model. Have a look... http://www.oscalemag.com/docs/ost_9.pdf Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: As I could find very little info on them on HO Seeker, does anyone have any info on  MB Austin? All I could find looks like they had freight cars made of brass at least. The car looked somewhat incomplete when I got it;  No lettering nor placards, nor evidence of ever having either. Was a workable car until a certain feline made it into a new toy! All in all should be an easy fix at least. This topic has kind of made me interested in fixing it! Thanks -Steve Neubaum

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20364	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Really Bummed

> > > I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > > Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20365	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

Jim, dare I ask how old you are? Art W   In a message dated 10/12/2012 3:47:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: > > >                     I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > >         Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20366	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

Art,           68 this month but I've had a medical problem the last 17 months. To many different pills because they don't know what else to do. They still don't know the cause of the problem.                                  Jim H On 10/12/2012 3:59 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Jim, dare I ask how old you are? Art W   In a message dated 10/12/2012 3:47:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: > > >                     I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > >         Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20367	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Pickle cars are "pickle tank cars."  Same as vinegar cars.   Brad   In a message dated 10/12/2012 7:21:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, erieberk@... writes:   Brad, Thanks for the alert on the December '11 RMC article. Yes, the AHM two-vat car is not a pickle car (I never said it was), but is yet another example of a car having verticle vats, like the vinegar car. And yes, it's even advertised by Walthers as a "tank car," but then too, so are the A-C Models pickle cars advertised in Ma Webster's Model Railroad Equipment catalog also listed as tank cars. In any case, they make for a very different and interesting type of car on the layout, even if there's no excuse to haul one. Thanks again for the heads-up; I'll dig that article out as it's not very far back. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20368	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

What did you do before retirement?   In a message dated 10/12/2012 4:00:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, luvprr@... writes: Jim, dare I ask how old you are? Art W   In a message dated 10/12/2012 3:47:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: > > >                     I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > >         Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20369	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

Jim...  It's not old age...  It's high mileage, wear and tear on the machinery...  Hang in there.  Eye problems cause me difficulty so model work is seldom and short timed.  Close work is difficult. Be greater blessed... Don Staton in VA. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 10/12/2012 3:47 PM, Jim Heckard wrote:   > > > I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > > Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20370	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

Art,     I will answer this but I think it should be off site next time. I was what they called an A Millwright for over 25 years.. I was a Maintenance person and jack of all trades. I welded, did machine work, repaired and installed machinery, pipe fitting, etc.      I have an electrical drafting degree although I hardly used it, 1800 hours of machine shop trainin gwith heat treating plus tool & die. I also did some N.C. & C.N.C milling machine work along with making some programs besides just running the mill.  Hurt my back and retired early.                                                                                  Jim H On 10/12/2012 4:25 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   What did you do before retirement?   In a message dated 10/12/2012 4:00:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, luvprr@... writes: Jim, dare I ask how old you are? Art W   In a message dated 10/12/2012 3:47:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: > > >                     I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > >         Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20371	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

I'm not so certain. The Green Bay train museum has a horizontal wooden tank car of large diameter that is a vinegar car. After decades of retirement you can still smell the vinegar when you walk up to the car. A vinegar only car is not the same as a pickle tank car with their horizontal tanks. While I'm sure you could ship vinegar in pickle cars, you'll carry much more vinegar in the special horizontal wooden tank vinegar cars. AHM sold a plastic model of a wooden horizontal vinegar for all of the years that I knew the company. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:23 PM, corlissbs@... wrote: Pickle cars are "pickle tank cars."  Same as vinegar cars.   Brad   In a message dated 10/12/2012 7:21:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, erieberk@... writes:   Brad, Thanks for the alert on the December '11 RMC article. Yes, the AHM two-vat car is not a pickle car (I never said it was), but is yet another example of a car having verticle vats, like the vinegar car. And yes, it's even advertised by Walthers as a "tank car," but then too, so are the A-C Models pickle cars advertised in Ma Webster's Model Railroad Equipment catalog also listed as tank cars. In any case, they make for a very different and interesting type of car on the layout, even if there's no excuse to haul one. Thanks again for the heads-up; I'll dig that article out as it's not very far back. Ray F.W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20372	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

I said it wrong. Both pickle tub cars and horizontal tank vinegar cars are both classed as tank cars. That Richter Vinegar Tank car at the Green Bay museum makes me feel old. I saw that car in operation in the early 1970's when I worked for the railroad. Took lots of photos. The North Freedom museum has the other Richter car and it is pretty well collapsed from the staves drying out and shrinking.  Brad Smith Sent from my iPod On Oct 12, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   I'm not so certain. The Green Bay train museum has a horizontal wooden tank car of large diameter that is a vinegar car. After decades of retirement you can still smell the vinegar when you walk up to the car. A vinegar only car is not the same as a pickle tank car with their horizontal tanks. While I'm sure you could ship vinegar in pickle cars, you'll carry much more vinegar in the special horizontal wooden tank vinegar cars. AHM sold a plastic model of a wooden horizontal vinegar for all of the years that I knew the company. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:23 PM, corlissbs@... wrote: Pickle cars are "pickle tank cars."  Same as vinegar cars.   Brad   In a message dated 10/12/2012 7:21:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, erieberk@... writes:   Brad, Thanks for the alert on the December '11 RMC article. Yes, the AHM two-vat car is not a pickle car (I never said it was), but is yet another example of a car having verticle vats, like the vinegar car. And yes, it's even advertised by Walthers as a "tank car," but then too, so are the A-C Models pickle cars advertised in Ma Webster's Model Railroad Equipment catalog also listed as tank cars. In any case, they make for a very different and interesting type of car on the layout, even if there's no excuse to haul one. Thanks again for the heads-up; I'll dig that article out as it's not very far back. Ray F.W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20373	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

Jim... My Father had to stop building from poor eyesight. If you will ship me the kit with instructions I will complete the assembly for you. I am 57 and have been building Bowser, MDC and John English engines for years. In fact, I have a fleet of 6 John English 4-6-2's being stripped and rebuilt this winter. I am considering regearing them with NWSL parts. They can sit in the backshop as I gather the parts over the fall. I understand what needs to be done on the riveting, careful setup is the key to avoiding binding. I could post pictures of the progress on this site. This is a serious offer, an early Christmas if you please. No charge. Ted Lewis 733 W. Columbus Ave. Bellefontaine, Ohio 43311 --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I'm really bummed out because I can't finish my > > early Lew English Bowser Mountain due to my hands shaking. I have to > > add the new eccentrics and rivets to attach them to the valve gear. I > > also have to add the link rivets that attach the valve gear to the > > metal square that is part of the frame. Right now I can't hold the > > parts even with tweezers nor can I put them through the valve gear and > > peen them over. I'll just have to wait till my shaking stops. First > > time I've ever had to stop because of " OLD AGE" > > > > Meanwhile I'll have to go eBay shopping for vintage pieces for > > my collection that don't need small part repairs. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20374	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: Really Bummed

Jim, I understand your anxiety in not being able to complete rebuilding the model at this time, although I just assumed you're planning on getting to it at a better time for you, and still do assume that's what you're planning. If, however, you don't foresee this happening for your getting back to it, just as Ted offered, I too am offering to complete this rebuilding for you -- at no charge of course. It would be my pleasure to complete a model for a buddy modeler at a time like this Fortunately, at 73, I still have good control of my hands, and have built many such models over time, including these Bowser engines. It's your choice to have either of us give you a helping hand with this rebuild and I'm sure many other active members here would offer the same; just let us know in what direction you want to proceed. I hope the shaking calms down for you soon. Best, Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20375	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Thanks

To all who have offered help to do my engine THANKS. I will just wait for better times ( I hope ). Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20376	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks

Exactly right. The whole idea of building models is to do it yourself--not watch someone else do it for you. If it were I (and I've built a ton of 'em) I'd as soon not do it at all as admit that I was incapable of completing a project and look for help. I'm a bit surprised that others haven't appreciated that Jim wasn't looking for help but was simply stating a frustration shared by many of us who are beginning to feel the effects of aging. Art W   In a message dated 10/14/2012 12:54:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes:      To all who have offered help to do my engine THANKS. I will just wait for better times ( I hope ).                                           Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20377	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks

Jim, we wish you a speedy and full recovery. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > To all who have offered help to do my engine THANKS. I will just > wait for better times ( I hope ). > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20378	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Pickle cars

Ray,   I can always stop by some day and guide you through the process.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:17 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Pickle cars     Hi John, Many thanks for your help. I'll look into getting a slide scanner, although for taking model photos, I could always use color print film (shouldn't need anything but a normal scanner then?). Having a number of camera bodies, I wouldn't need to go without having one still loaded with slide film for the prototype pics,. As for sending a photo with a message, just like anything else, it's easy once you know how; I've just never done it before and don't know where to even start -- even though for many people it's as easy as chewing a wad of gum. I appreciate your instructions in trying to clarify this, but telling me to attach my photo right to my emailed message says nothing more than what Don just said when there's no explanation on how to do that (I have no idea how to "attach" anything). I'll try following the prompts though, as you suggested, although I didn't think it's necessary to go to the Photo section unless I wanted it stored there for others to go to. I see many photos here that appear right with the message without me having to go to the Photo section to retrieve it. Wouldn't really matter which way I could get a photo up there though. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20379	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: FEC Layout; was, Pickle cars

Chuck, I certainly appreciate that offer; that would be great. Might take you up on that as it would really be helpful, but since you're mentioning it, I wouldn't mine stopping down your way if your invitation to stop by for a visit still stands. I occasionally drive down past Toms River on the Parkway, although I'm usually with other people doing other things, but one of these days I'd like to stop by to see your layout anyway, and to see you. BTW, and to also keep this on topic, I'm curious to know why you decided on modeling the FEC since I'd expect you might have preferred building a layout after a local railroad. Does your layout include any railroad causeways as the FEC had from Key West to the mainland before the hurricane of the '30's? Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20380	From: jbark76	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: Conover-ish engine kit

Sorry to anyone bidding on it, but I thought I'd highlight eBay item #110965059396. This was a kit made from "leftover" Conover parts (not a complete kit) during the 50's. It's not my auction and I don't know the reserve, but you don't see these very often.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20381	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Run what ya brung

Just for fun, and to keep with the theme of "vintage", did a bit of rearranging equipment the other day. For the moment, the layout is being run with ONLY equipment that is at LeasT 50 years old. http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/sets/72157631811733918/ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20382	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

Hi Don,   Thanks for sharing, looked over your Flickr site and other nice photos there as well.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:22 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Run what ya brung     Just for fun, and to keep with the theme of "vintage", did a bit of rearranging equipment the other day. For the moment, the layout is being run with ONLY equipment that is at LeasT 50 years old. http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/sets/72157631811733918/ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20383	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

Don, Looks perfectly fine and normal to me. I like it. Here's a challenge: Run only pre-war! Then add a decade at a time.  On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   Just for fun, and to keep with the theme of "vintage", did a bit of rearranging equipment the other day. For the moment, the layout is being run with ONLY equipment that is at LeasT 50 years old. http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/sets/72157631811733918/ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20384	From: cwrailman	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

Don, Great idea! So where are you getting the 50 year old electricity from? Actually when I read the "run what ya brung" I thought we were going to the drag strip and  I was about to head out to the garage to dust off the 55 Chevy.  Then I read the rest of the story. Actually you have a convention coming up don't ya? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Just for fun, and to keep with the theme of "vintage", did a bit of > rearranging equipment the other day. For the moment, the layout is > being run with ONLY equipment that is at LeasT 50 years old. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/sets/72157631811733918/ > > Don > > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20385	From: Chris B	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

That add a decade at a time idea sounds good!  I'm planning something like that on my own vintage HO layout under construction, once I get to the operations stage.  But in my case, the decade isn't when the model was made, though the entire roster was made during the 1949-69 era. I'm modeling a prototype line, the Washington & Old Dominion, that changed its small roster (of cast-off and oddball electric and gas-electrics, and early small diesel switchers), frequently over those two decades, so my plan is to start running the engines that were on the line in the early 40's, with rolling stock from that same period, then  gradually adjust the roster as various engines were sold off and brought on, adjusting the rolling stock too, as older shorter cars go out of service and newer longer cars come in to use... The punchline I'm going for is while everyone's used to hearing about operating with a fast clock, I call this year by year, or the suggested decade by decade format, operating with a "fast calendar". Chris Brannigan From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Run what ya brung   Don, Looks perfectly fine and normal to me. I like it. Here's a challenge: Run only pre-war! Then add a decade at a time.  On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   Just for fun, and to keep with the theme of "vintage", did a bit of rearranging equipment the other day. For the moment, the layout is being run with ONLY equipment that is at LeasT 50 years old. http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/sets/72157631811733918/ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20386	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

On 10/20/2012 12:10 PM, cwrailman wrote: Don, Great idea! So where are you getting the 50 year old electricity from? Actually when I read the "run what ya brung" I thought we were going to the drag strip and  I was about to head out to the garage to dust off the 55 Chevy.  Then I read the rest of the story. Actually you have a convention coming up don't ya? Denny Not a convention, but "Trainfest" is coming up the second weekend in November, we will be there wit "Cream City Traction".    http://www.trainfest.com/ If anyone gets there (I know a few of you do), stop by and say hello Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20387	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

On 10/20/2012 12:18 PM, Chris B wrote: That add a decade at a time idea sounds good!  I'm planning something like that on my own vintage HO layout under construction, once I get to the operations stage.  But in my case, the decade isn't when the model was made, though the entire roster was made during the 1949-69 era. I'm modeling a prototype line, the Washington & Old Dominion, that changed its small roster (of cast-off and oddball electric and gas-electrics, and early small diesel switchers), frequently over those two decades, so my plan is to start running the engines that were on the line in the early 40's, with rolling stock from that same period, then  gradually adjust the roster as various engines were sold off and brought on, adjusting the rolling stock too, as older shorter cars go out of service and newer longer cars come in to use... The punchline I'm going for is while everyone's used to hearing about operating with a fast clock, I call this year by year, or the suggested decade by decade format, operating with a "fast calendar". Chris Brannigan I've actually thought on occasion that that would be a good way to run a club where you have a number of members with different interests. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20388	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

On 10/20/2012 10:30 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote: Don, Looks perfectly fine and normal to me. I like it. Here's a challenge: Run only pre-war! Then add a decade at a time.  Just prewar would be hard, i locomotive, a passenger train and half a dozen freight cars. pre 1950 I could probably do. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20389	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

Thank you. Don On 10/20/2012 10:08 AM, Chuck Higdon wrote: Hi Don,   Thanks for sharing, looked over your Flickr site and other nice photos there as well.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:22 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Run what ya brung     Just for fun, and to keep with the theme of "vintage", did a bit of rearranging equipment the other day. For the moment, the layout is being run with ONLY equipment that is at LeasT 50 years old. http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/sets/72157631811733918/ Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20390	From: Glenn	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

from storage batteries?  gj   From: Don Dellmann Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Run what ya brung   On 10/20/2012 12:10 PM, cwrailman wrote: Don, Great idea! So where are you getting the 50 year old electricity from? Actually when I read the "run what ya brung" I thought we were going to the drag strip and  I was about to head out to the garage to dust off the 55 Chevy.  Then I read the rest of the story. Actually you have a convention coming up don't ya? Denny Not a convention, but "Trainfest" is coming up the second weekend in November, we will be there wit "Cream City Traction".    http://www.trainfest.com/ If anyone gets there (I know a few of you do), stop by and say hello Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20391	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

Don, I'll be there! With a number of members here in the region, almost thinking of a modular layout that each of us could bring a section to. Vintage construction, down to brass rail track, Mantua couplers (With uncoupling ramps- bring the Kadee guys over and see the look on their faces as we show what Mantua couplers can do!), and perhaps switchable between 6VDC for prewar and 12VDC for postwar locos (A CMI Superblue can go down to about 8VDC, which is good enough for me - just be easy on the throttle!). Bit of an idea here... -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 10/20/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Run what ya brung To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 4:40 PM   On 10/20/2012 12:10 PM, cwrailman wrote: Don, Great idea! So where are you getting the 50 year old electricity from? Actually when I read the "run what ya brung" I thought we were going to the drag strip and  I was about to head out to the garage to dust off the 55 Chevy.  Then I read the rest of the story. Actually you have a convention coming up don't ya? Denny Not a convention, but "Trainfest" is coming up the second weekend in November, we will be there wit "Cream City Traction".    http://www.trainfest.com/ If anyone gets there (I know a few of you do), stop by and say hello Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20392	From: nvrr49	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Exacta Sides

Were Exacta Scale Models passenger car sides brass or copper, or available both? Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20393	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Exacta Sides

Kent, The Exacta (made by Central Lines Manufacturing Co., P.O. Box 728, Los Gatos, CA) "Stainless Steel" Streamliner car sides were nickel-plated molded copper -- never brass. Also, they weren't copper stampings or embossings, but were "accurately molded of copper on wax molds," as per the Central Lines catalogs. This same process was used early on for Central Lines' Exacta "Period" car sides that they also produced for their lines of kits. Later, their "Period" car kits had molded plastic sides. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20394	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Exacta/Central Lines

Attachments : IMG_8576_1.JPG IMG_8574_1.JPG IMG_8573_1.JPG IMG_8572_1.JPG Ray F W, Kent, Wanted to add some information about the Exacta Passenger cars especially some other addresses you will see in the pictures. For some reason my pictures split into two groups so I'll send these and the other two after. Ray I know you got information out of a catalog. I don't have a catalog but I'm sure HOseeker has along with all the cars Exacta/Central Lines produced. Mine will come from an Exacta mint kit with O/B and some assembled cars. You will see that Exacta /Central Lines must have moved a couple of times as the addresses all taken from the mint kit are not Los Gatos, CA. One of the items you wrote from a catalog have me puzzled when I look at my cars especially my mint kit. You mentioned that the cars after being molded were Nickle plated. None of my cars show an outside Nickle plating except the back of the mint kit. The back however looks like a coverage of solder ( Picture will be sent next ). Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20395	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Exacta / Central Lines

Attachments : IMG_8580.JPG IMG_8579.JPG Ray F W , Kent, These are the two pictures that became separated from the other four. One will show the O/B end. The other shows what looks to me a complete solder layer ( not very smooth ) on the back of the body of the mint kit. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20396	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Exacta Sides

Kent, Would like to mention that Central Lines also produced Exacta "Standard Type" (Heavyweight) passenger cars in addition to the Budd and the Pullman Types of streamlined cars and the old Period cars. There were nine different models -- also, all being copper sided as far as I know as their catalogs never mentioned anything other than molded copper sides as a metal being used. To see a complete listing of Exacta cars, there's a file on them that I wrote up. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20397	From: Larry	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Site Link for Older Train Kits

Stumbled onto this site and thought it worth posting to the group. http://www.oldmodelkits.com/blog/plastic-model-kit-history/the-ho-scale-model-railroading-revolution-of-the-1940s/ <http://www.oldmodelkits.com/blog/plastic-model-kit-history/the-ho-scale-model-railroading-revolution-of-the-1940s/>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20398	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Exacta/Central Lines [4 Attachments]

Jim H, I find your input extremely interesting, as much as I'm sure you'll be interested in what I can add to this subject. As for this manufacturer having several addresses, this is but one reason why I included one of them -- to see if other members knew of any other addresses. I too was readily able to grab a couple of my mint Exacta kits off of a shelf on my modeling desk. My other kits aren't as easily obtainable as they're buried somewhere in the mountain of large corregated cartons containing the majority of my collection in my attic -- but I have enough of it in my train room that I'll never go for lack of different models to operate at any time < g >. The two mint Exacta Models kits that I pulled off the shelf earlier are an "Old Fashioned" B&O 1863 Coach and a Streamlined Budd Style 22 Passenger Sleeper. Not only is my Streamlined Sleeper kit nickel plated (both inside and outside) but it's factory pre-formed as a shell. very much like the one-piece-body Blue Line kits and the American Beauty kits (also like the Varney stamped metal passenger kits). From your photo, it's difficult for me to determine if your "plating" is on the inside or on the outside, especially since it's still flat, but I understand you to say it's plated only on the inside and not with nickel, which I find very odd.. Noticed your box is a flat-style one -- which is unfamiliar to me. My box is 12 3/8" X 2 1/2" X 1 3/4" -- to fit the pre-formed shell. One other difference I note is that your Exacta address is San Francisco rather than Los Gatos.. For Kent, the top of my light green box states; "Exacta" in large letters, then; "Molded Copper Models" in smaller letters beneath this. Ma Webster's 1950 Edition of the Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog includes my kit -- to establish its approximate production time -- and states that these Streamlined models have "Nickle plated moulded copper sides and ends." Likewise, this catalog also states that the Central Lines Exacta "Old Time" Passenger Cars have Moulded copper sides and ends," and Standard (Heavyweight) Passenger cars have "Moulded copper sides and ends." The 1953 Model R.R. Equipment Corp. catalog discontinued the Exacta Streamlined kits, but kept the Old Time car kits and the Standard car kits -- although by this time they both had molded plastic sides. Hard to say if Central Lines actually stopped producing their Streamlined Exacta kits at this time though. The Exacta Old Time cars remind me very much of the Hi Ball Models' Sierra cars, although they have cast metal sides. My Central Lines Exacta B&O 1863 Coach was apparently produced in 1955, as HO SC&H SIG member Graham Harvey stated in a history he wrote ("The Reporting Mark," Vol. 5, No. 4) on Central Lines. I remember meeting Graham at train meets several times back in the 1980's; he lived on Long Island, NY. In a history of Exacta Scale Models Inc., Dave Spanagel -- along with a helper/SIG member Stan Knotts -- wrote ("The Reporting Mark," Vol. 4, No. 4) that the company was started in 1945 and that the address at that time was; 4215 No. Vancouver Avenue, Portland 11, Oregon. Dave goes on to say that at that time, the Streamlined car bodies were "one-piece, rolled into the passenger car shape and nickle plated." He continues with, this original Exacta Scale Models Inc. company was sold to Central Lines Mfg. Co. "during or after 1948" at the Los Gatos, CA address, and that these same bodies in the same style boxes were seen produced by Central Lines in 1949 -- as new old stock left over by the original Exacta Scale Models. This is apparently what I have in my collection, which have Central Lines Exacta labels on the box ends. These box end labels also state; "Nickel Plated." I have nothing on when yours were produced, unfortunately. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20399	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Old track

Here appears to be Atlas Fiber track in good condition: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ATLAS-HO-36-LOT-OF-FLEXIBLE-STRAIGHT-TRACK-/150909993816?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2322efc358

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20400	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

Can Atlas fiber track ever be in good condition?  I grew up in Rhode Island and the humidity of spring and summer and the dryness of winter caused the track fiber to move all over the place. It was so nice when plastic tied track came out.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI Sent from Brad's iPod

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20401	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

Hi Brad, Unless it is in a hermetically sealed environment I don't see how.  I had acquired some about 40 some years ago and thought it was cool, but soon found out that it could not stay in gauge from one week to the next.  It was actually obsolete even back then.  I suppose it would be a nice entry to a museum to look at the progression of changes in Model Railroading. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:19:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old track   Can Atlas fiber track ever be in good condition?  I grew up in Rhode Island and the humidity of spring and summer and the dryness of winter caused the track fiber to move all over the place. It was so nice when plastic tied track came out.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI Sent from Brad's iPod

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20402	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

New condition is more accurate. Nostalgic, at best. If someone wanted to bother, it could be sealed with modern spray cans of clear coat. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Brad Smith <corlissbs@...> wrote: > > Can Atlas fiber track ever be in good condition? I grew up in Rhode Island and the humidity of spring and summer and the dryness of winter caused the track fiber to move all over the place. It was so nice when plastic tied track came out. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI > > Sent from Brad's iPod > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20403	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

If one lives in the desert or Death Valley, fiber track might be ok.  Brad Sent from Brad's iPod On Oct 23, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi Brad, Unless it is in a hermetically sealed environment I don't see how.  I had acquired some about 40 some years ago and thought it was cool, but soon found out that it could not stay in gauge from one week to the next.  It was actually obsolete even back then.  I suppose it would be a nice entry to a museum to look at the progression of changes in Model Railroading. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:19:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old track   Can Atlas fiber track ever be in good condition?  I grew up in Rhode Island and the humidity of spring and summer and the dryness of winter caused the track fiber to move all over the place. It was so nice when plastic tied track came out.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI Sent from Brad's iPod

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20404	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

I have a little bit of Atlas fiber tie/steel rail track here in humid middle Tennessee which seems to keep its gauge.  I think that the problems with fiber ties relate to using water based glue or ballast adhesive, something that was noted in the model railroad press in the late 40's and early 50's.  Many solutions were offered at that time.  Not that I'm going to use it; I keep it as a curiousity.   For you real old timers I have one 36" section of Midlin track.  Wooden ties had router cuts; the rail (imagine Code 55 soldered to the bottom of Code 100 to get an idea of the shape though this was an extrusion) fit into the router cuts.  Nice looking, but I don't have the foggiest idea what they used as rail joiners for this.  John B. Allyn From: "Brad Smith" <corlissbs@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:37:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old track   If one lives in the desert or Death Valley, fiber track might be ok.  Brad Sent from Brad's iPod On Oct 23, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi Brad, Unless it is in a hermetically sealed environment I don't see how.  I had acquired some about 40 some years ago and thought it was cool, but soon found out that it could not stay in gauge from one week to the next.  It was actually obsolete even back then.  I suppose it would be a nice entry to a museum to look at the progression of changes in Model Railroading. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:19:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old track   Can Atlas fiber track ever be in good condition?  I grew up in Rhode Island and the humidity of spring and summer and the dryness of winter caused the track fiber to move all over the place. It was so nice when plastic tied track came out.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI Sent from Brad's iPod

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20405	From: cwrailman	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Run what ya brung

Don, During the show you may get a visit from a guy who runs a hobby shop in  Montrose , Colorado .  He and his wife will be attending the show and I suggested he look you up.  I know a bunch of my friends from the Chicago burbs will be coming up for the show. Denny CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > On 10/20/2012 12:10 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > > > > Don, > > > > Great idea! So where are you getting the 50 year old electricity from? > > > > Actually when I read the "run what ya brung" I thought we were going > > to the drag strip and I was about to head out to the garage to dust > > off the 55 Chevy.Then I read the rest of the story. > > > > Actually you have a convention coming up don't ya? > > > > Denny > > > > > Not a convention, but "Trainfest" is coming up the second weekend in > November, we will be there wit "Cream City Traction". > http://www.trainfest.com/ > > If anyone gets there (I know a few of you do), stop by and say hello > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20406	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: White Elephant sale bonanza.

Hi folks, Sometimes you get lucky.  I just got back from a Region Convention in Suffolk, Va. with a pretty good bunch of VintageHO.  Lemme see. A complete original (early) Varney Ostuco gondola with the end structure, complete and unbuilt.  The only thing missing is the horn hook couplers.  Haha  who cares about those. A Tenshodo 0-6-0 in parts labeled Mantua 0-4-0 for $4.  I put the frame together yesterday and it runs very nicely.  A bit of oil on the original Tenshodo motor and it pulls only 250 ma at full bore.  The frame ends are a bit buggered where a prior owner unsuccessfully tried to setup to install Kadee couplers.  I will need to fix that. An Ambroid Phophate car for $7 and an Ambroid X-23 Pennsy O.B. Boxcar for $4. A pretty old backwoods turntable kit for $2.  A (Timberline?) Plumbing Supply for $10 A Bowser K-11 pacific boiler and an Oil Tender (complete) for $2. The coolest buys I think are the complete Varney Ostuco gondola and Tenshodo 0-6-0.  If anyone knows about the Tenshodo 0-6-0, feel free to share.  This is like the one I got. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-HO-Scale-Tenshodo-0-6-0T-Switcher-Steam-Locomotive-/271069864061?nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  I don't know whether to put the Ostuco gondola together and run it on the railroad or keep it as a collectable.  I have only ever seen 2 of these in my life and one was on eBay and sold for a ridiculous amount.   Since I already have the custom made one with decals provided by John Hagen and a plain Varney Ostuco car on the railroad already. Not really rubbing it in, but just wanting to share my luck with like minded people. Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20407	From: Douglas	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Mystery train

In a file marked Mystery Train, I have posted a couple of pix of an intriguing 2-car streamliner. Can anyone identify? It appears to be cast brass(!), no mark of maker or country of origin, not original paint job. Lead car is powered. Radial couplings between cars only. Could it be some sort of futuristic interurban? I'm stumped. Thanks, Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20408	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.

On the Tenshodo 0-6-0:   The first time it shows in the PFM catalogs is the 2nd edition as a kit.  It also lists two Kemtron conversion kits.  PFM originally had other products in their first loose leaf catalogs prior to print catalogs that included distributing Kemtron, Binkley, Central Valley, and others.   (Trivia item:  PFM sold "Rail-Turnouts-Track Gauges-Spikes, Nickel-Silver & Brass" starting with the first loose-leaf sheets and for years had nickel silver track, etc. in the catalogs and price sheets.  On loose leaf sheet it also says "THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS MODEL RAILROAD USES NICKEL-SILVER RAIL - THE CHOICE OF EXPERIENCE."  We should all new who had the "most famous" model railroad at that time!)   From July 1, 1956 price list with 2nd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT  [in the catalog, they had that typo of an "oh" in front the "T" instead of a zero]    Complete unpainted kit ....................  8.95    Kemtron conversion kits, either type ... 3.95   The conversion kits were Kit X-262 "Modern Industrial" and Kit X-261 "Old Timer" and provided different stacks, lights, pilots, air pump (compound for modern industrial, single for old timer), etc.   In the PFM 3rd edition catalog, it starts being offered in both kit and assembled and painted.  The catalog description says:   "Here is a quality tank engine at an amazingly low price with more features than anything in its class.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in the simplest kit form.  Highly detailed zamac castings; brass stampings; MV-1 motor; enclosed gear drive; accepts NMRA couplers.  Please note that kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  A special Kemtron sheet packed with each kit shows detailing parts especially assembled by Kemtron for this model.  Takes 15" radius curves with ease.  Length 4 1/2", weight 1- 1/2 oz."   They mentioned the generator, pump, and bell because the one in the catalog photo has them.  Also, the Kemtron conversion kits are no longer offered in the catalog or the price list.   From January 1, 1958 price list with 3rd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit .......................  8.95    Built, painted, detailed, ready-to-run ... 12.95   It is not clear to me what "detailed" is supposed to mean.  Perhaps they planned to add the generator, pump and bell and it got into the price list that way, and then later decided not to.   In the 4th edition PFM catalog, the description changes and is a little interesting:   "The prototype of this attractive little tank engine had a colorful history.  Built by Baldwin, shipped to England, later to Japan where it ended a long and useful life.  Now, as a Tenshodo model, it has completed its round-the-world trip.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in simple kit form.  Kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  Very popular with modelers for conversion into 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 types.  Special Kemtron super-detailing kits are available.  Accepts nylon spring type NMRA couplers without alteration.  Length 4 1/2", weight approx. 10 1/2 oz. 15" minimum radius".   This catalog also shows little photos of the them built-up with the Kemtron conversion kits, but those kits not sold by PFM.  Prices for engine unchanged.   5th edition catalog pretty much the same and same prices.   6th edition catalog has a similar description, but the two photos showing them built with kit conversions are unpainted and not the same as the original Kemtron kits.  For example, the old timer looking one seems to have the same balloon stack that was provided with the PFM Prairie King.  These are the PFM conversion kits, not Kemtron.   Also, the photo of the painted assembled engine now does NOT have the generator, pump, or bell so they no longer need the disclaimer on that.   The text for the conversion parts is:   "Photos at left [photos were really at right] are of conversions from two available parts kits offered by PFM, using Cal-Scale and imported parts.  A special version of the 0-6-0 kit is available with all holes drilled and the detailing may be attached with pliers, tweezers and cement.  A wide number of versions is possible limited only by the ingenuity of the modeler."   From the December 1, 1960 price list with the 6th edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit ...................................................  8.95    Special drilled kit for alteration (Available Feb., 1961) ...........9.95    Parts Kits to Convert to Industrial or Old Timer, illustrated ... 7.95   7th edition PFM catalog has substantially the same photos and information and same prices.   "1st half of 1976" PFM catalog does not show it.   8th edition PFM catalog has it sharing a page with the Sakura B&O "Docksider".  It has small photos of it built with both the Kemtron and PFM kits as:     "With Kemtron X-261 Kit"   "With Kemtron X-262 Kit"   "With PFM Old-Timer Kit"   "With PFM Industrial Kit"   From January 1, 1963 price list:   Tenshodo O-6-OT Unpainted kit......8.95       [now they have two "ohs" and not one each of "zero" and "oh"] Conversion Kits:    Kemtron X-261 or X-262..............3.95    PFM Old-timer or Industrial.........7.95   In the 9th edition PFM catalog it is gone never to appear again.  But the B&O "Docksider" soldiered on through the 13th catalog until it evaporated.   You can see all of the PFM catalogs (but not the original loose leaf advertising they originally provided in a little 6 ring binder and then sent you loose sheets to add) and some price lists are shown, at:   http://www.hoseeker.net/pacificfastmailinformation.html   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: bitlerisvj@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   Hi folks, Sometimes you get lucky.  I just got back from a Region Convention in Suffolk, Va. with a pretty good bunch of VintageHO.  Lemme see. A complete original (early) Varney Ostuco gondola with the end structure, complete and unbuilt.  The only thing missing is the horn hook couplers.  Haha  who cares about those. A Tenshodo 0-6-0 in parts labeled Mantua 0-4-0 for $4.  I put the frame together yesterday and it runs very nicely.  A bit of oil on the original Tenshodo motor and it pulls only 250 ma at full bore.  The frame ends are a bit buggered where a prior owner unsuccessfully tried to setup to install Kadee couplers.  I will need to fix that. An Ambroid Phophate car for $7 and an Ambroid X-23 Pennsy O.B. Boxcar for $4. A pretty old backwoods turntable kit for $2.  A (Timberline?) Plumbing Supply for $10 A Bowser K-11 pacific boiler and an Oil Tender (complete) for $2. The coolest buys I think are the complete Varney Ostuco gondola and Tenshodo 0-6-0.  If anyone knows about the Tenshodo 0-6-0, feel free to share.  This is like the one I got. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-HO-Scale-Tenshodo-0-6-0T-Switcher-Steam-Locomotive-/271069864061?nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  I don't know whether to put the Ostuco gondola together and run it on the railroad or keep it as a collectable.  I have only ever seen 2 of these in my life and one was on eBay and sold for a ridiculous amount.   Since I already have the custom made one with decals provided by John Hagen and a plain Varney Ostuco car on the railroad already. Not really rubbing it in, but just wanting to share my luck with like minded people. Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20409	From: Mike	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

Circa mid '30's to late '40's ACF MotoRailer styling. It seems to depict a power car and a trailer. They were the RDC's of their day. I followed the auction and saw too much activity to be certain of winning the items. So I saved the images from it. If all goes well I'll have my own set and possible kit by late Spring. Power it with part of a SW or a Bachmann power truck if you wish to be frugal. Use a high quality underfloor drive if you like. Expect the somewhat similar Paul Moore versions to follow in a few types including straight locomotive. Mike Bauers. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > In a file marked Mystery Train, I have posted a couple of pix of an intriguing 2-car streamliner. Can anyone identify? > > It appears to be cast brass(!), no mark of maker or country of origin, not original paint job. Lead car is powered. Radial couplings between cars only. > > Could it be some sort of futuristic interurban? I'm stumped. > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20410	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.

Hi Chuck, Thanks very much for this fantastic amount of information.  I kind of thought it was mostly used in Japan, but it appears quite at home with U.S. railroads as well.  The moto, which is probably over 50 years old, runs very smooth, very powerful and very quiet.  It appears quite powerful as I have a LOT of trouble trying to stall it.  I think stall current is likely over one amp, but I strongly suspect it will slip before it ever stalls.  I think it is quite safe to use this with a decoder.  I just need to figure out the best way to correct the hack job on the frame ends.  It mounts in the front with no problem, but I will need to devise some method to mount the frame at the cab end. I think I can find the Kemtron sheet for the additional detail parts easy enough.  I did wonder about the bell and air pump. Thanks and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:23:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   On the Tenshodo 0-6-0:   The first time it shows in the PFM catalogs is the 2nd edition as a kit.  It also lists two Kemtron conversion kits.  PFM originally had other products in their first loose leaf catalogs prior to print catalogs that included distributing Kemtron, Binkley, Central Valley, and others.   (Trivia item:  PFM sold "Rail-Turnouts-Track Gauges-Spikes, Nickel-Silver & Brass" starting with the first loose-leaf sheets and for years had nickel silver track, etc. in the catalogs and price sheets.  On loose leaf sheet it also says "THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS MODEL RAILROAD USES NICKEL-SILVER RAIL - THE CHOICE OF EXPERIENCE."  We should all new who had the "most famous" model railroad at that time!)   From July 1, 1956 price list with 2nd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT  [in the catalog, they had that typo of an "oh" in front the "T" instead of a zero]    Complete unpainted kit ....................  8.95    Kemtron conversion kits, either type ... 3.95   The conversion kits were Kit X-262 "Modern Industrial" and Kit X-261 "Old Timer" and provided different stacks, lights, pilots, air pump (compound for modern industrial, single for old timer), etc.   In the PFM 3rd edition catalog, it starts being offered in both kit and assembled and painted.  The catalog description says:   "Here is a quality tank engine at an amazingly low price with more features than anything in its class.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in the simplest kit form.  Highly detailed zamac castings; brass stampings; MV-1 motor; enclosed gear drive; accepts NMRA couplers.  Please note that kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  A special Kemtron sheet packed with each kit shows detailing parts especially assembled by Kemtron for this model.  Takes 15" radius curves with ease.  Length 4 1/2", weight 1- 1/2 oz."   They mentioned the generator, pump, and bell because the one in the catalog photo has them.  Also, the Kemtron conversion kits are no longer offered in the catalog or the price list.   From January 1, 1958 price list with 3rd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit .......................  8.95    Built, painted, detailed, ready-to-run ... 12.95   It is not clear to me what "detailed" is supposed to mean.  Perhaps they planned to add the generator, pump and bell and it got into the price list that way, and then later decided not to.   In the 4th edition PFM catalog, the description changes and is a little interesting:   "The prototype of this attractive little tank engine had a colorful history.  Built by Baldwin, shipped to England, later to Japan where it ended a long and useful life.  Now, as a Tenshodo model, it has completed its round-the-world trip.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in simple kit form.  Kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  Very popular with modelers for conversion into 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 types.  Special Kemtron super-detailing kits are available.  Accepts nylon spring type NMRA couplers without alteration.  Length 4 1/2", weight approx. 10 1/2 oz. 15" minimum radius".   This catalog also shows little photos of the them built-up with the Kemtron conversion kits, but those kits not sold by PFM.  Prices for engine unchanged.   5th edition catalog pretty much the same and same prices.   6th edition catalog has a similar description, but the two photos showing them built with kit conversions are unpainted and not the same as the original Kemtron kits.  For example, the old timer looking one seems to have the same balloon stack that was provided with the PFM Prairie King.  These are the PFM conversion kits, not Kemtron.   Also, the photo of the painted assembled engine now does NOT have the generator, pump, or bell so they no longer need the disclaimer on that.   The text for the conversion parts is:   "Photos at left [photos were really at right] are of conversions from two available parts kits offered by PFM, using Cal-Scale and imported parts.  A special version of the 0-6-0 kit is available with all holes drilled and the detailing may be attached with pliers, tweezers and cement.  A wide number of versions is possible limited only by the ingenuity of the modeler."   From the December 1, 1960 price list with the 6th edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit ...................................................  8.95    Special drilled kit for alteration (Available Feb., 1961) ...........9.95    Parts Kits to Convert to Industrial or Old Timer, illustrated ... 7.95   7th edition PFM catalog has substantially the same photos and information and same prices.   "1st half of 1976" PFM catalog does not show it.   8th edition PFM catalog has it sharing a page with the Sakura B&O "Docksider".  It has small photos of it built with both the Kemtron and PFM kits as:     "With Kemtron X-261 Kit"   "With Kemtron X-262 Kit"   "With PFM Old-Timer Kit"   "With PFM Industrial Kit"   From January 1, 1963 price list:   Tenshodo O-6-OT Unpainted kit......8.95       [now they have two "ohs" and not one each of "zero" and "oh"] Conversion Kits:    Kemtron X-261 or X-262..............3.95    PFM Old-timer or Industrial.........7.95   In the 9th edition PFM catalog it is gone never to appear again.  But the B&O "Docksider" soldiered on through the 13th catalog until it evaporated.   You can see all of the PFM catalogs (but not the original loose leaf advertising they originally provided in a little 6 ring binder and then sent you loose sheets to add) and some price lists are shown, at:   http://www.hoseeker.net/pacificfastmailinformation.html   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: bitlerisvj@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   Hi folks, Sometimes you get lucky.  I just got back from a Region Convention in Suffolk, Va. with a pretty good bunch of VintageHO.  Lemme see. A complete original (early) Varney Ostuco gondola with the end structure, complete and unbuilt.  The only thing missing is the horn hook couplers.  Haha  who cares about those. A Tenshodo 0-6-0 in parts labeled Mantua 0-4-0 for $4.  I put the frame together yesterday and it runs very nicely.  A bit of oil on the original Tenshodo motor and it pulls only 250 ma at full bore.  The frame ends are a bit buggered where a prior owner unsuccessfully tried to setup to install Kadee couplers.  I will need to fix that. An Ambroid Phophate car for $7 and an Ambroid X-23 Pennsy O.B. Boxcar for $4. A pretty old backwoods turntable kit for $2.  A (Timberline?) Plumbing Supply for $10 A Bowser K-11 pacific boiler and an Oil Tender (complete) for $2. The coolest buys I think are the complete Varney Ostuco gondola and Tenshodo 0-6-0.  If anyone knows about the Tenshodo 0-6-0, feel free to share.  This is like the one I got. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-HO-Scale-Tenshodo-0-6-0T-Switcher-Steam-Locomotive-/271069864061?nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  I don't know whether to put the Ostuco gondola together and run it on the railroad or keep it as a collectable.  I have only ever seen 2 of these in my life and one was on eBay and sold for a ridiculous amount.   Since I already have the custom made one with decals provided by John Hagen and a plain Varney Ostuco car on the railroad already. Not really rubbing it in, but just wanting to share my luck with like minded people. Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20411	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.

There was a third Kemtron detail kit that included piston valve cylinders and outside valve gear.  I think that it also included a two wheel lead truck.    This was the first engine that I ever bought (with earnings from my paper route, about one week's worth if I remember correctly).  It ran well. John B. Allyn From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:23:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   On the Tenshodo 0-6-0:   The first time it shows in the PFM catalogs is the 2nd edition as a kit.  It also lists two Kemtron conversion kits.  PFM originally had other products in their first loose leaf catalogs prior to print catalogs that included distributing Kemtron, Binkley, Central Valley, and others.   (Trivia item:  PFM sold "Rail-Turnouts-Track Gauges-Spikes, Nickel-Silver & Brass" starting with the first loose-leaf sheets and for years had nickel silver track, etc. in the catalogs and price sheets.  On loose leaf sheet it also says "THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS MODEL RAILROAD USES NICKEL-SILVER RAIL - THE CHOICE OF EXPERIENCE."  We should all new who had the "most famous" model railroad at that time!)   From July 1, 1956 price list with 2nd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT  [in the catalog, they had that typo of an "oh" in front the "T" instead of a zero]    Complete unpainted kit ....................  8.95    Kemtron conversion kits, either type ... 3.95   The conversion kits were Kit X-262 "Modern Industrial" and Kit X-261 "Old Timer" and provided different stacks, lights, pilots, air pump (compound for modern industrial, single for old timer), etc.   In the PFM 3rd edition catalog, it starts being offered in both kit and assembled and painted.  The catalog description says:   "Here is a quality tank engine at an amazingly low price with more features than anything in its class.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in the simplest kit form.  Highly detailed zamac castings; brass stampings; MV-1 motor; enclosed gear drive; accepts NMRA couplers.  Please note that kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  A special Kemtron sheet packed with each kit shows detailing parts especially assembled by Kemtron for this model.  Takes 15" radius curves with ease.  Length 4 1/2", weight 1- 1/2 oz."   They mentioned the generator, pump, and bell because the one in the catalog photo has them.  Also, the Kemtron conversion kits are no longer offered in the catalog or the price list.   From January 1, 1958 price list with 3rd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit .......................  8.95    Built, painted, detailed, ready-to-run ... 12.95   It is not clear to me what "detailed" is supposed to mean.  Perhaps they planned to add the generator, pump and bell and it got into the price list that way, and then later decided not to.   In the 4th edition PFM catalog, the description changes and is a little interesting:   "The prototype of this attractive little tank engine had a colorful history.  Built by Baldwin, shipped to England, later to Japan where it ended a long and useful life.  Now, as a Tenshodo model, it has completed its round-the-world trip.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in simple kit form.  Kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  Very popular with modelers for conversion into 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 types.  Special Kemtron super-detailing kits are available.  Accepts nylon spring type NMRA couplers without alteration.  Length 4 1/2", weight approx. 10 1/2 oz. 15" minimum radius".   This catalog also shows little photos of the them built-up with the Kemtron conversion kits, but those kits not sold by PFM.  Prices for engine unchanged.   5th edition catalog pretty much the same and same prices.   6th edition catalog has a similar description, but the two photos showing them built with kit conversions are unpainted and not the same as the original Kemtron kits.  For example, the old timer looking one seems to have the same balloon stack that was provided with the PFM Prairie King.  These are the PFM conversion kits, not Kemtron.   Also, the photo of the painted assembled engine now does NOT have the generator, pump, or bell so they no longer need the disclaimer on that.   The text for the conversion parts is:   "Photos at left [photos were really at right] are of conversions from two available parts kits offered by PFM, using Cal-Scale and imported parts.  A special version of the 0-6-0 kit is available with all holes drilled and the detailing may be attached with pliers, tweezers and cement.  A wide number of versions is possible limited only by the ingenuity of the modeler."   From the December 1, 1960 price list with the 6th edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit ...................................................  8.95    Special drilled kit for alteration (Available Feb., 1961) ...........9.95    Parts Kits to Convert to Industrial or Old Timer, illustrated ... 7.95   7th edition PFM catalog has substantially the same photos and information and same prices.   "1st half of 1976" PFM catalog does not show it.   8th edition PFM catalog has it sharing a page with the Sakura B&O "Docksider".  It has small photos of it built with both the Kemtron and PFM kits as:     "With Kemtron X-261 Kit"   "With Kemtron X-262 Kit"   "With PFM Old-Timer Kit"   "With PFM Industrial Kit"   From January 1, 1963 price list:   Tenshodo O-6-OT Unpainted kit......8.95       [now they have two "ohs" and not one each of "zero" and "oh"] Conversion Kits:    Kemtron X-261 or X-262..............3.95    PFM Old-timer or Industrial.........7.95   In the 9th edition PFM catalog it is gone never to appear again.  But the B&O "Docksider" soldiered on through the 13th catalog until it evaporated.   You can see all of the PFM catalogs (but not the original loose leaf advertising they originally provided in a little 6 ring binder and then sent you loose sheets to add) and some price lists are shown, at:   http://www.hoseeker.net/pacificfastmailinformation.html   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: bitlerisvj@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   Hi folks, Sometimes you get lucky.  I just got back from a Region Convention in Suffolk, Va. with a pretty good bunch of VintageHO.  Lemme see. A complete original (early) Varney Ostuco gondola with the end structure, complete and unbuilt.  The only thing missing is the horn hook couplers.  Haha  who cares about those. A Tenshodo 0-6-0 in parts labeled Mantua 0-4-0 for $4.  I put the frame together yesterday and it runs very nicely.  A bit of oil on the original Tenshodo motor and it pulls only 250 ma at full bore.  The frame ends are a bit buggered where a prior owner unsuccessfully tried to setup to install Kadee couplers.  I will need to fix that. An Ambroid Phophate car for $7 and an Ambroid X-23 Pennsy O.B. Boxcar for $4. A pretty old backwoods turntable kit for $2.  A (Timberline?) Plumbing Supply for $10 A Bowser K-11 pacific boiler and an Oil Tender (complete) for $2. The coolest buys I think are the complete Varney Ostuco gondola and Tenshodo 0-6-0.  If anyone knows about the Tenshodo 0-6-0, feel free to share.  This is like the one I got. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-HO-Scale-Tenshodo-0-6-0T-Switcher-Steam-Locomotive-/271069864061?nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  I don't know whether to put the Ostuco gondola together and run it on the railroad or keep it as a collectable.  I have only ever seen 2 of these in my life and one was on eBay and sold for a ridiculous amount.   Since I already have the custom made one with decals provided by John Hagen and a plain Varney Ostuco car on the railroad already. Not really rubbing it in, but just wanting to share my luck with like minded people. Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20412	From: Douglas	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

Thanks, Mike. Any idea who made the model? It's a heavy devil. Yes, it's very kind of vendors to provide photos for scratchbuilding. I model traction, and my budget can't keep up with my tastes. Thanks, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Circa mid '30's to late '40's ACF MotoRailer styling. It seems to depict a power car and a trailer. They were the RDC's of their day. > > I followed the auction and saw too much activity to be certain of winning the items. So I saved the images from it. If all goes well I'll have my own set and possible kit by late Spring. > > Power it with part of a SW or a Bachmann power truck if you wish to be frugal. Use a high quality underfloor drive if you like. Expect the somewhat similar Paul Moore versions to follow in a few types including straight locomotive. > > Mike Bauers. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > In a file marked Mystery Train, I have posted a couple of pix of an intriguing 2-car streamliner. Can anyone identify? > > > > It appears to be cast brass(!), no mark of maker or country of origin, not original paint job. Lead car is powered. Radial couplings between cars only. > > > > Could it be some sort of futuristic interurban? I'm stumped. > > > > Thanks, > > Doug McKercher > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20413	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: White Elephant sale bonanza.

 Yeah.  I vaguely remembered that and expected to find 3 conversion kits offered in the PFM list but since there were only two I wondered if I were getting old.  Maybe not just yet.   Here is a 1957 4th edition Kemtron catalog page that shows it (and the other two kits) from www.hoseeker.net   http://www.hoseeker.net/Kemtron/kemtron4thmastercatalogpg07.jpg   It was called the "Woods Engine".  The description includes "...the most highly detailed set of cylinders in the history of HO.  Six detailed castings make up these cylinders..."   It is $9.95 versus the $3.95 for the other two Kemtron choices.  Maybe the higher price is why PFM didn't include it.  It would be more than the engine kit itself.  Maybe there wasn't enough margin in that set of parts to be able to discount it enough to PFM.  Maybe Kemtron chose not to offer it via PFM.  I can think of other "maybes" but I don't know.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: john.allyn@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   There was a third Kemtron detail kit that included piston valve cylinders and outside valve gear.  I think that it also included a two wheel lead truck.    This was the first engine that I ever bought (with earnings from my paper route, about one week's worth if I remember correctly).  It ran well. John B. Allyn From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:23:12 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   On the Tenshodo 0-6-0:   The first time it shows in the PFM catalogs is the 2nd edition as a kit.  It also lists two Kemtron conversion kits.  PFM originally had other products in their first loose leaf catalogs prior to print catalogs that included distributing Kemtron, Binkley, Central Valley, and others.   (Trivia item:  PFM sold "Rail-Turnouts-Track Gauges-Spikes, Nickel-Silver & Brass" starting with the first loose-leaf sheets and for years had nickel silver track, etc. in the catalogs and price sheets.  On loose leaf sheet it also says "THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS MODEL RAILROAD USES NICKEL-SILVER RAIL - THE CHOICE OF EXPERIENCE."  We should all new who had the "most famous" model railroad at that time!)   From July 1, 1956 price list with 2nd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT  [in the catalog, they had that typo of an "oh" in front the "T" instead of a zero]    Complete unpainted kit ....................  8.95    Kemtron conversion kits, either type ... 3.95   The conversion kits were Kit X-262 "Modern Industrial" and Kit X-261 "Old Timer" and provided different stacks, lights, pilots, air pump (compound for modern industrial, single for old timer), etc.   In the PFM 3rd edition catalog, it starts being offered in both kit and assembled and painted.  The catalog description says:   "Here is a quality tank engine at an amazingly low price with more features than anything in its class.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in the simplest kit form.  Highly detailed zamac castings; brass stampings; MV-1 motor; enclosed gear drive; accepts NMRA couplers.  Please note that kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  A special Kemtron sheet packed with each kit shows detailing parts especially assembled by Kemtron for this model.  Takes 15" radius curves with ease.  Length 4 1/2", weight 1- 1/2 oz."   They mentioned the generator, pump, and bell because the one in the catalog photo has them.  Also, the Kemtron conversion kits are no longer offered in the catalog or the price list.   From January 1, 1958 price list with 3rd edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit .......................  8.95    Built, painted, detailed, ready-to-run ... 12.95   It is not clear to me what "detailed" is supposed to mean.  Perhaps they planned to add the generator, pump and bell and it got into the price list that way, and then later decided not to.   In the 4th edition PFM catalog, the description changes and is a little interesting:   "The prototype of this attractive little tank engine had a colorful history.  Built by Baldwin, shipped to England, later to Japan where it ended a long and useful life.  Now, as a Tenshodo model, it has completed its round-the-world trip.  Comes painted, detailed and ready-to-run or in simple kit form.  Kit does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  Very popular with modelers for conversion into 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 types.  Special Kemtron super-detailing kits are available.  Accepts nylon spring type NMRA couplers without alteration.  Length 4 1/2", weight approx. 10 1/2 oz. 15" minimum radius".   This catalog also shows little photos of the them built-up with the Kemtron conversion kits, but those kits not sold by PFM.  Prices for engine unchanged.   5th edition catalog pretty much the same and same prices.   6th edition catalog has a similar description, but the two photos showing them built with kit conversions are unpainted and not the same as the original Kemtron kits.  For example, the old timer looking one seems to have the same balloon stack that was provided with the PFM Prairie King.  These are the PFM conversion kits, not Kemtron.   Also, the photo of the painted assembled engine now does NOT have the generator, pump, or bell so they no longer need the disclaimer on that.   The text for the conversion parts is:   "Photos at left [photos were really at right] are of conversions from two available parts kits offered by PFM, using Cal-Scale and imported parts.  A special version of the 0-6-0 kit is available with all holes drilled and the detailing may be attached with pliers, tweezers and cement.  A wide number of versions is possible limited only by the ingenuity of the modeler."   From the December 1, 1960 price list with the 6th edition catalog:   BALDWIN SWITCHER 0-6-OT    Complete unpainted kit ...................................................  8.95    Special drilled kit for alteration (Available Feb., 1961) ...........9.95    Parts Kits to Convert to Industrial or Old Timer, illustrated ... 7.95   7th edition PFM catalog has substantially the same photos and information and same prices.   "1st half of 1976" PFM catalog does not show it.   8th edition PFM catalog has it sharing a page with the Sakura B&O "Docksider".  It has small photos of it built with both the Kemtron and PFM kits as:     "With Kemtron X-261 Kit"   "With Kemtron X-262 Kit"   "With PFM Old-Timer Kit"   "With PFM Industrial Kit"   From January 1, 1963 price list:   Tenshodo O-6-OT Unpainted kit......8.95       [now they have two "ohs" and not one each of "zero" and "oh"] Conversion Kits:    Kemtron X-261 or X-262..............3.95    PFM Old-timer or Industrial.........7.95   In the 9th edition PFM catalog it is gone never to appear again.  But the B&O "Docksider" soldiered on through the 13th catalog until it evaporated.   You can see all of the PFM catalogs (but not the original loose leaf advertising they originally provided in a little 6 ring binder and then sent you loose sheets to add) and some price lists are shown, at:   http://www.hoseeker.net/pacificfastmailinformation.html   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: bitlerisvj@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] White Elephant sale bonanza.   Hi folks, Sometimes you get lucky.  I just got back from a Region Convention in Suffolk, Va. with a pretty good bunch of VintageHO.  Lemme see. A complete original (early) Varney Ostuco gondola with the end structure, complete and unbuilt.  The only thing missing is the horn hook couplers.  Haha  who cares about those. A Tenshodo 0-6-0 in parts labeled Mantua 0-4-0 for $4.  I put the frame together yesterday and it runs very nicely.  A bit of oil on the original Tenshodo motor and it pulls only 250 ma at full bore.  The frame ends are a bit buggered where a prior owner unsuccessfully tried to setup to install Kadee couplers.  I will need to fix that. An Ambroid Phophate car for $7 and an Ambroid X-23 Pennsy O.B. Boxcar for $4. A pretty old backwoods turntable kit for $2.  A (Timberline?) Plumbing Supply for $10 A Bowser K-11 pacific boiler and an Oil Tender (complete) for $2. The coolest buys I think are the complete Varney Ostuco gondola and Tenshodo 0-6-0.  If anyone knows about the Tenshodo 0-6-0, feel free to share.  This is like the one I got. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-HO-Scale-Tenshodo-0-6-0T-Switcher-Steam-Locomotive-/271069864061?nma=true&si=KoL3y14ge9DO3TUwGqJ5BcqgpW0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  I don't know whether to put the Ostuco gondola together and run it on the railroad or keep it as a collectable.  I have only ever seen 2 of these in my life and one was on eBay and sold for a ridiculous amount.   Since I already have the custom made one with decals provided by John Hagen and a plain Varney Ostuco car on the railroad already. Not really rubbing it in, but just wanting to share my luck with like minded people. Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20414	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

It's an unknown to me. But it sure caught my eye when it appeared. I get the impression that it is a very small run project from before the mid-60's. Just an impression. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2012, at 3:58 PM, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > Thanks, Mike. Any idea who made the model? It's a heavy devil. > > Yes, it's very kind of vendors to provide photos for scratchbuilding. I model traction, and my budget can't keep up with my tastes. > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20415	From: rxensen	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

I have some as staging tracks and I do not have a problem. on past layouts after ballasting the ties change shape and the track goes out of gauge. once that happens it is about done and is hard to correct. The key i think is to spike it on the inside in gauge about every 2 to 3 inches. after that it stays even with ballasting, mine is in the 50 year range. I just bought some for 50 cents a 3 foot piece, great for the storage track. Mainline I to have converted to plastic ties. Ron Christensen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > I have a little bit of Atlas fiber tie/steel rail track here in humid middle Tennessee which seems to keep its gauge.  I think that the problems with fiber ties relate to using water based glue or ballast adhesive, something that was noted in the model railroad press in the late 40's and early 50's.  Many solutions were offered at that time.  Not that I'm going to use it; I keep it as a curiousity. > > > > For you real old timers I have one 36" section of Midlin track.  Wooden ties had router cuts; the rail (imagine Code 55 soldered to the bottom of Code 100 to get an idea of the shape though this was an extrusion) fit into the router cuts.  Nice looking, but I don't have the foggiest idea what they used as rail joiners for this.   > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Smith" <corlissbs@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:37:08 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old track > >   > > > > > > If one lives in the desert or Death Valley, fiber track might be ok.  > > > Brad > > Sent from Brad's iPod > > On Oct 23, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Victor Bitleris < bitlerisvj@... > wrote: > > > > >   > > > > Hi Brad, > Unless it is in a hermetically sealed environment I don't see how.  I had acquired some about 40 some years ago and thought it was cool, but soon found out that it could not stay in gauge from one week to the next.  It was actually obsolete even back then.  I suppose it would be a nice entry to a museum to look at the progression of changes in Model Railroading. > Regards,  > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: corlissbs@... > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:19:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old track > >   > > > > > Can Atlas fiber track ever be in good condition?  I grew up in Rhode Island and the humidity of spring and summer and the dryness of winter caused the track fiber to move all over the place. It was so nice when plastic tied track came out.  > > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI > > Sent from Brad's iPod > > > <blockquote> >               > > > > > > > > > > </blockquote> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20416	From: Douglas	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

The motor car is very similar in color and configuration to Susquehanna 1001 or 1002 (ACF seems to have built no three alike), but the trailer, while a good design match to the motor, doesn't come close to any pix I have been able to find. I don't recall seeing anything like this set in the model RR ads, and I've been an avid reader of them since my dad was bringing the mags home in the '50s. A train like this would have stuck in my mind. Anyway, it's a unique addition to my Doodlebug collection! Thanks, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > It's an unknown to me. > > But it sure caught my eye when it appeared. > > I get the impression that it is a very small run project from before the mid-60's. Just an impression. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 23, 2012, at 3:58 PM, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > > Thanks, Mike. Any idea who made the model? It's a heavy devil. > > > > Yes, it's very kind of vendors to provide photos for scratchbuilding. I model traction, and my budget can't keep up with my tastes. > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20417	From: 23weldon	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: Old track

The first fiber tie Atlas track I bought in 1950 had brass rails and steel staples holding it to the tie strip.  IIRC there were only holes for the staples along the rails.  The holes for tacks or spikes to hold  the track down were in the center of the ties.  Held down this way the ties tended to bend concave upward and reduce the gauge.  This was such a problem for my little 36" x 60 inch loop and two sidings that I gave up and built a new shelf layout.  It was late 1951 and the Korean War brought on shortages of brass.  Atlas had to switch over to steel code 100 rails and used a new tie strip that had extra spike holes along the rails.  My new shelf layout (Port Ogden & Northern; 101 Track Plans page 6) was in the finished basement of our house in West Orange, NJ; so temperature and humidity were pretty constant.  It had 1/4" Upson board on top of 1/4" plywood on a 1x4 frame.  Atlas track with the steel rails and fiber tie strip was held down with spikes along the rails and no ballast.  In a year's use I never had a gauge problem except where my track joints were sloppy. A note on the trackplan.  As drawn in the book it is 16 feet long and 1 foot wide.  At that narrow width the scenery is a real challenge.  No room for anything except retaining walls and backdrop.  Better to make it 16 or even 24 inches wide to look like the perspective drawing the accompanies the track plan on  the same page. BTW, my well weighted Varney Dockside was able to pull upward of 15 Varney kit cars on a straight section of that steel track that included about 3 feet of 4% grade.  Electrical contact was actually pretty good in the dry basement environment.  That layout did well for a year or so and got torn down when our family moved.  I still have the old steel track and a few turnouts stored in a box up in the attic.  Museum stuff..... But it would be pretty cool for the display cabinet I will likely never get around to building.      Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20418	From: 23weldon	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Vintage layouts

Most of out conversation here is about vintage HO equipment and even some "new old layouts".  But how about existing HO layouts that still contain significant portions of benchwork and trackwork built in the 60's or even in the 50's and 40's? I know there are lots of O scale layouts in that range; just attend O Scale West and you'll see how that works :>) What stories do you guys have about HO survivors, either your own or someone else's? Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20419	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

Sampson, maybe?  John B. Allyn From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:54:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery train   The motor car is very similar in color and configuration to Susquehanna 1001 or 1002 (ACF seems to have built no three alike), but the trailer, while a good design match to the motor, doesn't come close to any pix I have been able to find. I don't recall seeing anything like this set in the model RR ads, and I've been an avid reader of them since my dad was bringing the mags home in the '50s. A train like this would have stuck in my mind. Anyway, it's a unique addition to my Doodlebug collection! Thanks, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > It's an unknown to me. > > But it sure caught my eye when it appeared. > > I get the impression that it is a very small run project from before the mid-60's. Just an impression. > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 23, 2012, at 3:58 PM, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> wrote: > > > Thanks, Mike. Any idea who made the model? It's a heavy devil. > > > > Yes, it's very kind of vendors to provide photos for scratchbuilding. I model traction, and my budget can't keep up with my tastes. > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20420	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts

I just looked at my older section, built in the early 80’s.  It does have fiber tie flex track, ballasted and it is in gauge and the ties are flat.  I did spike it every 2 inches with spikes or ½ inch brads, 18 or 19 sized.  While this fiber tie track is NS, there are some switches by Atlas in brass.  Mostly they are number 6, but I have a number 4 with the machined points, not the stamped ones.  So that switch would be from the early 60s.  I did purposely install it in the 80s for that reason.  I do run over some of these brass switches and fiber tie track when ever the trains are run, as this track is part of the mainline.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://s1292.photobucket.com/albums/b574/lordon104/  This one http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 will be closing Dec. 1st.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of 23weldon Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:48 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage layouts     Most of out conversation here is about vintage HO equipment and even some "new old layouts".  But how about existing HO layouts that still contain significant portions of benchwork and trackwork built in the 60's or even in the 50's and 40's? I know there are lots of O scale layouts in that range; just attend O Scale West and you'll see how that works :>) What stories do you guys have about HO survivors, either your own or someone else's? Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20421	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts

When I was a teenager, in 1960, my "railroad mentor" built his layout in his attic in Rhode Island, using Atlas fiber tie/brass rail track.  Note that nickel silver was either not out yet or not popular.  He couldn't keep it in gauge or from moving so he tore it out and replaced it with Atlas brass/plastic tie track.  Problems solved.  So I built my first layout with Atlas brass track/plastic tie track and had a very nice running layout.  Seems to me that nickel silver track came out later.  I would have to check my Atlas ads in MR's of that era.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20422	From: Douglas	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

Possibly. The subject matter (railcars) is right, but Sampsons' materials of choice for body shells were magnesium castings and aluminum extrusions. I'm pretty certain this is a brass casting—unusual for a mass-produced model (albeit probably a pretty short run!). Thanks, Doug McKercher --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > Sampson, maybe?  > > > John B. Allyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:54:40 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery train > >   > > > > > The motor car is very similar in color and configuration to Susquehanna 1001 or 1002 (ACF seems to have built no three alike), but the trailer, while a good design match to the motor, doesn't come close to any pix I have been able to find. > > I don't recall seeing anything like this set in the model RR ads, and I've been an avid reader of them since my dad was bringing the mags home in the '50s. A train like this would have stuck in my mind. > > Anyway, it's a unique addition to my Doodlebug collection! > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > > > > It's an unknown to me. > > > > But it sure caught my eye when it appeared. > > > > I get the impression that it is a very small run project from before the mid-60's. Just an impression. > > > > Mike Bauers > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2012, at 3:58 PM, "Douglas" <douglas.mckercher@> wrote: > > > > > Thanks, Mike. Any idea who made the model? It's a heavy devil. > > > > > > Yes, it's very kind of vendors to provide photos for scratchbuilding. I model traction, and my budget can't keep up with my tastes. > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20423	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Fwd: For sale cheap

Attachments : IMG_8585.JPG IMG_8584.JPG IMG_8583.JPG IMG_8582.JPG IMG_8581.JPG Have to clean some items off my bench that I don't want. I Athearn diesel Runs good. Needs one new side frame. Somebody modified with extra stacks. I don't know what it's called. Decals and paint not the best. All handrails are on. Has one KD coupler. 2 MDC 2-6-0 Ran great before I disassembled to redo. The engine was weathered and look by the coal lumps all over the tender and the water bucket on top of the tender it was for lumber use. All parts should still be there but one picture will show back of cab is broken. Other wise it was in great shape. $25 for both engines plus Shipping. You tell me how you wanted it shipped. USPS only. Sold together only. First Come first served. Put on message on site if you want so I won't have no argument who was first unless another Yahoo site member calls first. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20424	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Mystery train

Sampson's "Motorailer" style model is not made of brass, so this can't be the manufacturer. Ray F.W,</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20425	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts

I live in  Northeast Illinois, fairly close to Lake Michigan. Back in my previous apartment, I had a lot of fiber tie and brass rail track. Never really had issues with any of it. One corner of the layout had an air conditioner box above it, that leaked every now and then (Landlord was such a drunk that I would rather shim it up to make it drain outside than risk him trying to fix it while under the influence of cheap booze). Even though it leaked close to the track, I never had much of a tie warping issue. A non-issue now, as a good friend gave me a big tub filled with Bachmann nickel silver EZ track after his son-in-law got out of model railroading. I figured that the EZ track would be handy if I ever move again now. I still have some of the fiber tie track, and of the drivers at the bus line heard I was into old trains, and gave me a bunch more of it (Along with a Rivarossi Big Boy, some old Mantua cars, and a few freight cars). May end up building something out of the old track someday. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 10/24/12, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Vintage layouts To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2012, 10:26 AM   I just looked at my older section, built in the early 80’s.  It does have fiber tie flex track, ballasted and it is in gauge and the ties are flat.  I did spike it every 2 inches with spikes or ½ inch brads, 18 or 19 sized.  While this fiber tie track is NS, there are some switches by Atlas in brass.  Mostly they are number 6, but I have a number 4 with the machined points, not the stamped ones.  So that switch would be from the early 60s.  I did purposely install it in the 80s for that reason.  I do run over some of these brass switches and fiber tie track when ever the trains are run, as this track is part of the mainline.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://s1292.photobucket.com/albums/b574/lordon104/  This one http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 will be closing Dec. 1st.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of 23weldon Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:48 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage layouts     Most of out conversation here is about vintage HO equipment and even some "new old layouts".  But how about existing HO layouts that still contain significant portions of benchwork and trackwork built in the 60's or even in the 50's and 40's? I know there are lots of O scale layouts in that range; just attend O Scale West and you'll see how that works :>) What stories do you guys have about HO survivors, either your own or someone else's? Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20426	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage layouts

I know of one model railroad that has passed its 50th birthday.   You can see it at http://galenasouthern.wix.com/train#!   I became friends with its owner in the mid 60's and we are friends to this day although now thousands of miles distant.  He is also into live steam railroading and we got hooked at the same time.  He in a big way (such as stints as president of the Illinois Live Steamers) and me in just a little way (assembling some 1" scale car kits put out by himself and a friend).  He is quite the machinist and craftsman and the 1" scale kits had prepainted and lettered sides and were very much like perhaps a Silver Streak kit with many added on details - only a lot bigger.  Also, his 1" scale car kit friend himself had a large HO layout called the Maywood Central which was featured in MR long ago.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage layouts   When I was a teenager, in 1960, my "railroad mentor" built his layout in his attic in Rhode Island, using Atlas fiber tie/brass rail track.  Note that nickel silver was either not out yet or not popular.  He couldn't keep it in gauge or from moving so he tore it out and replaced it with Atlas brass/plastic tie track.  Problems solved.  So I built my first layout with Atlas brass track/plastic tie track and had a very nice running layout.  Seems to me that nickel silver track came out later.  I would have to check my Atlas ads in MR's of that era.   Brad Smith Franklin,WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20427	From: John H	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20428	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

You can always use it as a club.  "Colonel Mustard with the sand cast boiler in the library . . . " John B. Allyn From: "John H" <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:39:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"   On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20429	From: Glenn	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Didn't someone here builkd one of those last year or so??gj -----Original Message----- From: John H Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit" On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20430	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Pulling Engines

I'm pulling the 2 engines I had for sale as I want to sell both at one time to save me a lot of problems.and people responding want me to split which I won't do Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20431	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Well, I can only say that the old adage is true: just because something is old and unusual doesn't mean it's worth a whole lot. Of course the market for this kind of stuff is determined by how much it's worth to any given individual. If somebody wants to spend over $1300 for an unknown piece of fairly crude bronze (and it is bronze and not brass--as is claimed by the seller) then it's "worth" that much. If no one wants to spend more than $3 for it, then that's how much its worth. . . . I think the seller put this ad on eBay with tongue-in-cheek to see if anyone bites. I kinda think that ol' Clark A had the same idea in mind when he put it on the market "back in the day." I can't imagine that there was a mob breaking down his door to get copies of this one to build. I agree with John and would pay a couple of bucks to put it on the shelf as a conversation piece of another oddity of days gone by. Art W     In a message dated 10/25/2012 3:39:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sprinthag@... writes: On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20432	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

On 10/25/2012 4:21 PM, luvprr@... wrote: Well, I can only say that the old adage is true: just because something is old and unusual doesn't mean it's worth a whole lot. Of course the market for this kind of stuff is determined by how much it's worth to any given individual. If somebody wants to spend over $1300 for an unknown piece of fairly crude bronze (and it is bronze and not brass--as is claimed by the seller) then it's "worth" that much. If no one wants to spend more than $3 for it, then that's how much its worth. . . . I think the seller put this ad on eBay with tongue-in-cheek to see if anyone bites. I kinda think that ol' Clark A had the same idea in mind when he put it on the market "back in the day." I can't imagine that there was a mob breaking down his door to get copies of this one to build. I agree with John and would pay a couple of bucks to put it on the shelf as a conversation piece of another oddity of days gone by. Art W     In a message dated 10/25/2012 3:39:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sprinthag@... writes: On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen You don't want a 2-10-2 "Decapool"?  Hey the PFM receipts for some SRR PS-4 parts is worth it, even if they have nothing to do with this model Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Conover-10-2

Attachments : IMG_8588_1.JPG IMG_8586_1.JPG John H, Glenn, FWIW I was probably the person who was building the Conover 2-10-2. The pictures will show where it's at when I stopped due to missing parts I couldn't find. Mine looked as bad as the one for sale and had missing parts especially I couldn't find all the valve gear parts. I put a lot of hours cleaning up the major parts. I'm afraid the original valve gear is a hopeless cause as I have been looking for a while. I did find the main and side rods. Also there was no motor. The Conover motor was 6 volt and I didn't come across it. I did find a Mantua 6 volt motor that they used some times. Finally the trucks on the tender are not the originals although I did find the original side frames. I was lucky to find a few of the missing parts like the extra window pieces and original air compressors. Still looking as I'm not going anywhere. Looks like the kit on eBay is not complete either and mine was a lot cheaper. $125. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20434	From: Richard White	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: Conover-10-2

Jim- I've been following your Conover 2-10-2 for some while. I'm sure you've considered completing it using Varney parts... I'd really like to see the completed loco. Great work so far! -Richard White --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > John H, Glenn, > > FWIW I was probably the person who was building the Conover > 2-10-2. The pictures will show where it's at when I stopped due to > missing parts I couldn't find. Mine looked as bad as the one for sale > and had missing parts especially I couldn't find all the valve gear > parts. I put a lot of hours cleaning up the major parts. I'm afraid the > original valve gear is a hopeless cause as I have been looking for a > while. I did find the main and side rods. Also there was no motor. The > Conover motor was 6 volt and I didn't come across it. I did find a > Mantua 6 volt motor that they used some times. Finally the trucks on the > tender are not the originals although I did find the original side > frames. I was lucky to find a few of the missing parts like the extra > window pieces and original air compressors. Still looking as I'm not > going anywhere. > > Looks like the kit on eBay is not complete either and mine was a > lot cheaper. $125. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20435	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: DES-3

Gentlemen, Did I just share with another here on a pair of Custom Brass, NYC DES-3's ??? From eBay a few minutes ago? The one I won has a now formerly lonely sister that I bought when it first hit the Hobby Shop display case. It's taken this long to finally get a pair of them together. It will be treasured and become DCC sound equipped with some suitable Oil-electric 'engine' of the era. Just wondering if someone here got the other one. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20436	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Rebirth of a zombie FM switcher shell

Did I just nudge past someone here that was bidding on a ' Barr-Nixon HO Brass FM Diesel Switcher Body Kit ' ??? I'd like to proclaim it is going to a good home and will finally make it into operational model status after all these many years. I'll likely put a DCC/sound equipped Athearn SW chassis under her. After all these years, I think she'll like coming to a better life than her original drive offered to her. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20437	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Don,   The box is probably worth at least $600.00.   John Hagen   You don't want a 2-10-2 "Decapool"?  Hey the PFM receipts for some SRR PS-4 parts is worth it, even if they have nothing to do with this model Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20438	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Particularly interesting are the correspondence, and the instruction sheets, especially the list of parts and components which are not included and that the buyer is to provide for himself. The only limitation as to possible sources of parts and components is with respect to the drivers, where Mantua parts are specified in order to fit the frame and side rods. Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20439	From: louis niederlander	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Reminds me of the Adams & Sons castings I used to sell at Sparks Hobby in Cleveland [in1965].   That looks really rough.   Louis N   > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: sprinthag@... > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:39:17 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit" > > On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. > > A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20440	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: Conover-10-2 [2 Attachments]

Jim, and others, I'm sure it was your Conover model that was being referred to here, and I'd like to add you've done an absolutely great job on it so far. I know you put a lot of time into it, and it shows. I seem to remember that Sean finally found one of these models also, if I'm not mistaken. Wish I had an extra cab roof to give him. Scarcer parts like these might be something that Dan at Yardbird Trains should consider reproducing. As for this latest Clark A. Benson -- Conover remake, I can only say -- unbelieveable -- as for the Buy It Now price. Reminds me of that guy who was asking $10,000 for some model a couple of years ago, which I don't remember what kind now. Not quite as bad, but getting close to it. This Seller needs to get real though. Besides the copy of the Conover catalog, I believe I sent you copies of the Clark Benson catalog version, but I'm not sure. I know I sent them to someone here. The original post-War Conover B&O S-1 model was offered by Baldwin Model Locomotive Works (P.O. Box 1225, Greenwich, Connecticut), after buying Conover out. Clark Benson then bought out Baldwin M. L. Wks several years later. I notice that in this eBay listing, the instructions being offered recommend obtaining Mantua 61 1/2" drivers, which doesn't coincide with what the original Clark Benson instruction book suggests. My Clark Benson manual states using Penn Line 62" (Mikado) drivers. The prototype B&O S-1 2-10-2 had 64" drivers, so this would at least be a little closer to the prototype than Mantua's and readily available even back then. Fortunately, I've been able to find one of these complete Baldwin Model Locomotive Works B&O S-1 kits -- except for missing the valve gear, like yours. You got a great deal at $125, though; I paid $164.50 for this post-War version but it had the main rods and other stuff yours was missing. Not yet sure if I'm going to do that work of filing off the roughness on the casting though, or just leave it for now -- or put it up on eBay for $5000 (LOL). I bought fellow HO SC&H SIG member Joe Casale's finished original pre-War Conover 2-10-2 several years ago, so I really don't need to go all through that tough work with the castings. Joe did a terrific job in smoothing everything off. Sent me loads of extra parts too, although no valve gear parts. Had to pay $200 for this one, but it's well worth it. I'm still tempted to work on the Benson model though, and I'd just use Kemtron's Baker valve gear if I did. Best, Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20441	From: jbark76	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

This looks to be the exact "Conover-ish" kit I mentioned last week. The auction ended mysteriously and I suspect they ended the auction and sold it directly to the new auctioner. I'm glad they posted more of the instructions that I can put with the parts I have. -Jeff-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20442	From: Nelson	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

> You don't want a 2-10-2 "Decapool"? Is that a pool that's 10 feet deep or the deck around it? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > You don't want a 2-10-2 "Decapool"? Hey the PFM receipts for some SRR > PS-4 parts is worth it, even if they have nothing to do with this model > > Don > > -- > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20443	From: Nelson	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

I just found this auction and noticed the flywheel. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-2-Rail-Diesel-Passenger-Cars-RDC-3-Old-Atheran-Boxs-1-Runs-1-Parts-/251153953220 Was there a company that made them to retrofit these units? The flywheel and brass coupling look like they perfectly adapt the motor shaft to the smaller dia. rubber band shafts. Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20444	From: John Webster	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Now that was funny.   E-bay is bringing to light a lot of lost history.   John Webster

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20445	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

I'm pretty sure I saw ads at one time for flywheels, so I did a little searching in the MR digital archive (that you buy) and found a pretty good "smoking gun" in Arden Scale Models ads...   But first, the Feb 1959 issue has an editorial that is on point that would suggest that none were available at that time (this issue also has the excellent article "Bridges on the Gorre & Daphetid" - those were the days).   Here is the text of the "At the Throttle" editorial:   ************************************* Flywheel?  What's that?   I recall seeing, many years ago, a really remarkable HO railroad in Omaha.  J. B. Caldwell was its builder, and the railroad was impressive because of its mechanical uniqueness.  For one thing, it was outside third rail (probably one of the last such animals in HO!).  But even more striking - and by present day standards more acceptable - were the locomotives, all (if memory serves me right) scratch-built by the road's brass hat.   The locomotives didn't really look any different than any other piece of average motive power.  But when they began to move - there was the difference that caught your eye.  Without any apparent effort on the part of the man at the throttle, each would start gradually and smoothly.  At speed, they seemed to glide along, and when slowed or stopped, they all exhibited remarkable coasting qualities.   The secret, if it could be called that, is that each had a fair-sized flywheel.   No what amazes me is after roughly 25 years of HO model railroading, more modelers and manufacturers haven't taken to the flywheel as a means of improving operation.  It seems to be forgotten yet is just about the simplest device that will give an HO mechanism the "mass" it ought to have to run with prototype smoothness.  But a flywheel will improve the operation of just about any locomotive in any gauge, and it doesn't take much space.  For a manufacturer, its easy to produce.   It seems we've circled around the flywheel in search of substitutes - that have never really produced the results we've wanted.  For example, there have been three or more clutches of one sort or another commercially available.  Now I don't have anything against clutches, really, and have used a couple of them extensively, but they're a lot more complicated than a flywheel, and a heck of a lot more difficult to install and maintain.  And they produce about the same net effect.   And then there's pulsed power.  It's simply an electrical means of producing extremely low speed operation (effective in certain locos only).  A flywheel-equipped locomotive will outshine pulsed power any day of the week.   I wonder... what ever did happen to the flywheel?   Paul Larson *************************************   June 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "New Arden HO Demonstrator proves improved coasting distance of motors with flywheels.  Read February editorial for full explanation of advantages.  For rubber band F-7.  98c a pair."  There is a drawing of a motor with a flywheel at each end with one shown in cross section and a not "file flat on shaft" where the set screw will grab.   Nov 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "HO FLYWHEELS:  For rubber band F-7, GP-9 - smoothes operation, doubles coasting distance, pair 98 c"  (They also offer a smoke unit and mention "not for plastic boilers".)   Feb 1960 had an ad for Arden Scale Models "DIESEL FLYWHEELS:  For rubber band F-7, GP-9, RDC brass, pair 98 c".  (Might be the "smoking gun" for the RDC's in question.)   No more ads for Arden Scale Models noted after that.   Some other interesting "hits":   Nov, 1959 has a Railway Post Office reference to "Pennsylvania Scale Models" flywheels somebody decided to use on an Athearn gear-drive GP-9.  This outfit sold traction models so maybe they started doing flywheels about the same time as Arden Scale Models?  Just a guess.   Feb, 1967 from Baumgarten's for "Modified Athearn Diesels" where they put on dual flywheels but they mention only SDP-40 and SD-45.   NOTE:  Tip to others using the MR search of scanned copies:  I looked for just "Arden Scale Models" to try and find their very first ad and they are listed as an advertiser in May, 1948 but it didn't hit on their actual ad.  (I notice for quite a few issues they offered a hopper car.)  They used a sort of script for their name in the ad and I don't think the text converter used by whoever MR contracted with for the scanning could decipher it.   There were generally so many hits for "flywheels" that I didn't track them all down.  I suspect there have been other sources since it is pretty easy to make them.   My guess is that Arden Model Trains jumped at filling a hole in the market perhaps in response to that editorial.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   I just found this auction and noticed the flywheel. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-2-Rail-Diesel-Passenger-Cars-RDC-3-Old-Atheran-Boxs-1-Runs-1-Parts-/251153953220 Was there a company that made them to retrofit these units? The flywheel and brass coupling look like they perfectly adapt the motor shaft to the smaller dia. rubber band shafts. Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20446	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Jeff, Yes, this looks to be the identical "Conoverish" kit that was up on eBay earlier (I'm positive it is). At that time, the Seller had a reserve on it, but as I recall the bids received several days into the auction were less than $50 (with the reserve not having been met). Might be that with the small response to this, that it was this that caused the Seller to pull it -- especially if he got a large enough offer for it off-line. No surprise about the little response it originally got -- even if more hobbyists/collectors are searching for Conover, as not very many know this post-War version as a Clark A Benson. I submitted several questions to the Seller before the item was yanked, but never received a response. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20447	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

I found it a bit interesting to see the original price of $16 on the paperwork for the model. Inflation is way under-stated these days. Mike Bauers On Oct 25, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: On 10/25/2012 4:21 PM, luvprr@... wrote: Well, I can only say that the old adage is true: just because something is old and unusual doesn't mean it's worth a whole lot. Of course the market for this kind of stuff is determined by how much it's worth to any given individual. If somebody wants to spend over $1300 for an unknown piece of fairly crude bronze (and it is bronze and not brass--as is claimed by the seller) then it's "worth" that much. If no one wants to spend more than $3 for it, then that's how much its worth. . . . I think the seller put this ad on eBay with tongue-in-cheek to see if anyone bites. I kinda think that ol' Clark A had the same idea in mind when he put it on the market "back in the day." I can't imagine that there was a mob breaking down his door to get copies of this one to build. I agree with John and would pay a couple of bucks to put it on the shelf as a conversation piece of another oddity of days gone by. Art W     In a message dated 10/25/2012 3:39:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sprinthag@... writes: On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen You don't want a 2-10-2 "Decapool"?  Hey the PFM receipts for some SRR PS-4 parts is worth it, even if they have nothing to do with this model Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20448	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

It could be that the owner had a few nice tools and made his own flywheel and couplers. The like couplers are easily bought in the R/C parts section of a large hobby-shop today. I don't know about the flywheel. But that is a very easy thing to make with any small lathe. The fellow might have owned a Unimat or knew a friend that did own one. The couplers are mainly some lathe drilled brass rod with the addition of tiny set screws. Most machinist types have some solid brass weld rod around, or know who to ask for one. Unimats were somewhat common in their era and could be set-up to do precision drilling of the small hole needed for the set screw with no problem. Unless you use the very big shop parts supplier catalogs and find the perfect couplers to buy. Even very small couplers are quite common enough in the industrial world. If feeling stubborn, I can make the flywheel and couplers with my Sherline lathe and generic bench-top drill-press and a bit of scrap brass that I have on hand. I have a modestly set-up hobby workshop. We used to have a lot more folks working in industry and they are a very handy type of fellow with interesting tools at home they enjoy using in their hobby. A full Unitmat setup that can convert to several different shop tools was commonly about $99. The hardcore modelers often had one of those packages circa 1960, and enjoyed the freedom of making their own parts. Mike Bauers On Oct 26, 2012, at 11:31 PM, Nelson wrote: > I just found this auction and noticed the flywheel. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-2-Rail-Diesel-Passenger-Cars-RDC-3-Old-Atheran-Boxs-1-Runs-1-Parts-/251153953220 > > Was there a company that made them to retrofit these units? The flywheel and brass coupling look like they perfectly adapt the motor shaft to the smaller dia. rubber band shafts. > > > Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20449	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Mike, I do see that original price on the top of the second sheet down in the eBay ad. I don't see a date though (unless I'm missing it), but I've seen that price quoted by Clark Benson as of 11/21/53. By 12/26/54 Benson included a quote for this Conover kit, as stated in my on my Baldwin Model Loco Wks/C.A. Benson 2-10-2 instruction manual book, of $19.95. Inflation has already set in a year later back then! Let's see, how did it get to $1300+ though? Maybe there's a decimal point missing < G >. If some collectors are willing to pay near $2000 for a Crusader, there just may be a collector willing to pay $1300 for this goodie! Best of luck to them. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20450	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Art, Yes, this is a cast bronze (not cast brass) model -- even as stated in the original Conover catalog. While I have only the Fourth Edition (1939) Conover catalog, and unless I'm mistaken (which could be), I understood that earlier catalogs offered these casting as unmachined and rough, needing lots of work even then to smooth out these castings -- especially the boiler and the Vandy tender body. As I recall, Conover first offered this B&O S-1 in 1938. By 1939 -- of their castings, Conover's catalog (Fourth Edition) had this to say -- "We feel our castings are the finest available. They are cast in French sand and acid dipped to a gold finish. They require very little cleaning up." So by this, by at least late 1939, it seems that very little work is needed before actual assembly begins. Have no idea though, why these same castings would be offered so rough in the early 50's, however, or for that matter, right after the War by Baldwin Models. Similar to many Varney steam loco kits, the Conover 2-10-2 was originally offered in four separate sections, for "spreading the cost over a period of time." The sections could be bought all at once, or separately to budget the modeler's expenses. To give an idea of the original (pre-War) costs for the sections of this model, Section One (Frame, Drivers, Cylinder Block & Guides, etc.) -- $11.00. Section Two (Mantua Motor, Baker Valve Gear, Crossheads, Rods, etc.) - $9.50, Section Three (Boiler, Smokebox Front and details, etc.) -- $9.50 and Section Four (Vanderbilt Tender) -- $9.50. A total of $39.50. It could also be bought factory assembled, "Finished sprayed black and lettered to your specifications," for $78.00. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20451	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Regarding the Crusader, a reliable source tells me that it was sold to the son of one of the former owners of Penn Line who somehow as a child never obtained one (who woulda thought back then that they were gonna be worth much?). Thus, it apparently was worth the 2 grand for him for all the personal reasons you can imagine. I heard that he was elated to get it. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, maybe a relative of Benson would be interested in this so-called kit. According to Ray, it does have some pedigree. Art W   In a message dated 10/27/2012 9:07:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, erieberk@... writes: Mike, I do see that original price on the top of the second sheet down in the eBay ad.  I don't see a date though (unless I'm missing it), but I've seen that price quoted by Clark Benson as of 11/21/53.  By 12/26/54 Benson included a quote for this Conover kit, as stated in my on my Baldwin Model Loco Wks/C.A. Benson 2-10-2 instruction manual book, of $19.95.  Inflation has already set in a year later back then!  Let's see, how did it get to $1300+ though?  Maybe there's a decimal point missing < G >.  If some collectors are willing to pay near $2000 for a Crusader, there just may be a collector willing to pay $1300 for this goodie!  Best of luck to them. Ray F.W. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20452	From: Brad Smith	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

Today, the Sherline lathe is the finest lathe for model work. Much better than the Unimat  The Athearn metal RDC cars looked nice, but ran poorly and rusted easily. I had mine chrome plated, but they still ran poorly. The plastic Hi-F drive RDC were a welcome release.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20453	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

So the old hot rodding adage “If it don’t go, chrome it” Holds true for model railroading also.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Smith Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 9:56 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?     Today, the Sherline lathe is the finest lathe for model work. Much better than the Unimat    The Athearn metal RDC cars looked nice, but ran poorly and rusted easily. I had mine chrome plated, but they still ran poorly. The plastic Hi-F drive RDC were a welcome release.    Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20454	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

Dont forget about the Taig Lathe.  It isn't as fancy as the Sherline, but every bit as accurate and just a bit more beefy.  If you are on a limited budget, a Taig is a good way to go.  For about $1000 you can get the lathe and ALL the accessories to go with it.  I am not sure of the total cost these days, but I bought mine for about $800 and ALL the accessories around 10 or 11 years ago. Regards Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 09:56:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   Today, the Sherline lathe is the finest lathe for model work. Much better than the Unimat  The Athearn metal RDC cars looked nice, but ran poorly and rusted easily. I had mine chrome plated, but they still ran poorly. The plastic Hi-F drive RDC were a welcome release.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20455	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

I don't want to get too off topic by discussing lathes, but another good option for the hobbyist is the "mini lathe".  These are made in China and are a true "engine lathe" meaning power feed and screw cutting capability.  Most are made by "Sieg" and some by "Real Bull" and these are marketed under many names.  Also, there are some size differences in length such as 7x10, 7x12, 7x14, 7x16 (but not all are conventionally measured as "between centers" and the 7x10 or more like a 7x8).  There are also some other differences here and there.  The quality is much lower than Sherline, but with a little work (like lapping the gibs) can give excellent results.  They can do much larger and heavier work than the hobbyist size lathe.  They are probably easily the best value for the money.   Micro-Mark sells one of the newer higher end mini-lathes (and a similar mini-mill as do many others).  Little Machine Shop also sells one of the better ones (www.littlemachineshop.com).  But others such as Harbor Freight and Grizzly are a bit lesser but also cheaper.   A site with a vast amount of information on mini lathes, including the various "brands", is http://www.mini-lathe.com/ .  A good Yahoo group for mini lathes is "7x12minilathe" and for mini mills is "GrizHFMinimill".  Both sites are excellent resources of experts if you are a beginning machinist.   For occasional model railroad work of smaller parts typical to the hobby, a used Unimat can actually be a good choice especially if you can live without power feed or thread cutting (although options for these are available).  The thing is, these have collector value and nice ones, especially with many of the options, go for big money.  I see that ebay currently has a couple with a great many accessories for a fairly ludicrous price.  But if you look down the price listing some are much lower.  Ugly ones go cheapest and still might make parts just fine.   I have some machining experience and, while the Sherline and Taig are good quality, they are very limited in capability and it costs a lot of money to add features such as power feed or a thread cutting attachment (which I don't think the Taig even offers).  Other accessories like chucks also tend to be pricey.  Of course, the Unimat is in the same boat where power feed and thread cutting is an option (and thread cutting is via a "chase" scheme which is like a tracer and not via a powered lead screw.)   One Chinese mini lathe I suggest avoiding is the "C0" model which is a smaller lathe.  Micro-Mark (who otherwise has many good things at reasonable market values) currently has something like this thing at a list price of $629.95 and on sale for $499.95.  It is very minimal in capability and I do not believe to be a good value at all.  It would be much better finding on the lower cost 7xWhatever lathes.  When the "Co" first came out, Harbor Freight had them for $299.95 and I wouldn't have paid that.  HF had them on sale for awhile for $73 and that was a steal to use even as a door stop and they sold out quickly.  I think they just wanted to get rid of them for some reason and I haven't seen them there since.   For any lathe of any size, be mindful of the accessories (tooling) you get because they can help define the total value.  Some come with quite a few goodies, some with only a few.   Personal note:  I actually bought a Unimat myself off ebay not long ago (although I have a 7x14 mini lathe and a 12x36 larger lathe) just to satisfy the desire started when they first came out for $129.95 when I was a teenager but there was no hope of affording one.  All I could do at the time was talk my mother into letting me get a regular 1/4 inch drill motor as a premium with "Plaid Stamps" she had saved (like "S&H green stamps") and I promptly used it as a lathe with Lucite rod to make headlight lenses as best I could.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bitleris To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   Dont forget about the Taig Lathe.  It isn't as fancy as the Sherline, but every bit as accurate and just a bit more beefy.  If you are on a limited budget, a Taig is a good way to go.  For about $1000 you can get the lathe and ALL the accessories to go with it.  I am not sure of the total cost these days, but I bought mine for about $800 and ALL the accessories around 10 or 11 years ago. Regards Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 09:56:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   Today, the Sherline lathe is the finest lathe for model work. Much better than the Unimat  The Athearn metal RDC cars looked nice, but ran poorly and rusted easily. I had mine chrome plated, but they still ran poorly. The plastic Hi-F drive RDC were a welcome release.  Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20456	From: Nelson	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

Interesting info, especially that it took so long for the flywheel concept to catch on. These wouldn't be hard to make with a lathe, but with all of the little cottage industries over the years I wondered if they were ever available commercially. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > I'm pretty sure I saw ads at one time for flywheels, so I did a little searching in the MR digital archive (that you buy) and found a pretty good "smoking gun" in Arden Scale Models ads... > > But first, the Feb 1959 issue has an editorial that is on point that would suggest that none were available at that time (this issue also has the excellent article "Bridges on the Gorre & Daphetid" - those were the days). > > Here is the text of the "At the Throttle" editorial: > > ************************************* > Flywheel? What's that? > > I recall seeing, many years ago, a really remarkable HO railroad in Omaha. J. B. Caldwell was its builder, and the railroad was impressive because of its mechanical uniqueness. For one thing, it was outside third rail (probably one of the last such animals in HO!). But even more striking - and by present day standards more acceptable - were the locomotives, all (if memory serves me right) scratch-built by the road's brass hat. > > The locomotives didn't really look any different than any other piece of average motive power. But when they began to move - there was the difference that caught your eye. Without any apparent effort on the part of the man at the throttle, each would start gradually and smoothly. At speed, they seemed to glide along, and when slowed or stopped, they all exhibited remarkable coasting qualities. > > The secret, if it could be called that, is that each had a fair-sized flywheel. > > No what amazes me is after roughly 25 years of HO model railroading, more modelers and manufacturers haven't taken to the flywheel as a means of improving operation. It seems to be forgotten yet is just about the simplest device that will give an HO mechanism the "mass" it ought to have to run with prototype smoothness. But a flywheel will improve the operation of just about any locomotive in any gauge, and it doesn't take much space. For a manufacturer, its easy to produce. > > It seems we've circled around the flywheel in search of substitutes - that have never really produced the results we've wanted. For example, there have been three or more clutches of one sort or another commercially available. Now I don't have anything against clutches, really, and have used a couple of them extensively, but they're a lot more complicated than a flywheel, and a heck of a lot more difficult to install and maintain. And they produce about the same net effect. > > And then there's pulsed power. It's simply an electrical means of producing extremely low speed operation (effective in certain locos only). A flywheel-equipped locomotive will outshine pulsed power any day of the week. > > I wonder... what ever did happen to the flywheel? > > Paul Larson > ************************************* > > June 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "New Arden HO Demonstrator proves improved coasting distance of motors with flywheels. Read February editorial for full explanation of advantages. For rubber band F-7. 98c a pair." There is a drawing of a motor with a flywheel at each end with one shown in cross section and a not "file flat on shaft" where the set screw will grab. > > Nov 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "HO FLYWHEELS: For rubber band F-7, GP-9 - smoothes operation, doubles coasting distance, pair 98 c" (They also offer a smoke unit and mention "not for plastic boilers".) > > Feb 1960 had an ad for Arden Scale Models "DIESEL FLYWHEELS: For rubber band F-7, GP-9, RDC brass, pair 98 c". (Might be the "smoking gun" for the RDC's in question.) > > No more ads for Arden Scale Models noted after that. > > Some other interesting "hits": > > Nov, 1959 has a Railway Post Office reference to "Pennsylvania Scale Models" flywheels somebody decided to use on an Athearn gear-drive GP-9. This outfit sold traction models so maybe they started doing flywheels about the same time as Arden Scale Models? Just a guess. > > Feb, 1967 from Baumgarten's for "Modified Athearn Diesels" where they put on dual flywheels but they mention only SDP-40 and SD-45. > > NOTE: Tip to others using the MR search of scanned copies: I looked for just "Arden Scale Models" to try and find their very first ad and they are listed as an advertiser in May, 1948 but it didn't hit on their actual ad. (I notice for quite a few issues they offered a hopper car.) They used a sort of script for their name in the ad and I don't think the text converter used by whoever MR contracted with for the scanning could decipher it. > > There were generally so many hits for "flywheels" that I didn't track them all down. I suspect there have been other sources since it is pretty easy to make them. > > My guess is that Arden Model Trains jumped at filling a hole in the market perhaps in response to that editorial. > > Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20457	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

If you re-read my email, you will see that they were indeed available commercially.   Also, they are available commercially.  Check out the Walthers site, for example, and you will find them offered by Northwest Short Line, A Line Products, Marklin, and Timewell Prec.   http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?quick=flywheel   Athearn sells several as spare parts:   http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?CatId=THCR&SearchTerm=flywheel   My guess is there are some more if you beat the bushes enough.   There is one aspect that is slightly difficult in making such things.  You want a truly concentric shaft hole to avoid any wobble.  That's not the easiest thing to to with small and/or deep holes since drills tend to wander even if you center drill first.  There are techniques regarding this (such as using a "gun drill" or "D bit") or to even drill in from both ends and hope for the best.  I suspect if somebody does garden variety drilling the results might suffer a little.    Chuck Kinzer       ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   Interesting info, especially that it took so long for the flywheel concept to catch on. These wouldn't be hard to make with a lathe, but with all of the little cottage industries over the years I wondered if they were ever available commercially. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > I'm pretty sure I saw ads at one time for flywheels, so I did a little searching in the MR digital archive (that you buy) and found a pretty good "smoking gun" in Arden Scale Models ads... > > But first, the Feb 1959 issue has an editorial that is on point that would suggest that none were available at that time (this issue also has the excellent article "Bridges on the Gorre & Daphetid" - those were the days). > > Here is the text of the "At the Throttle" editorial: > > ************************************* > Flywheel? What's that? > > I recall seeing, many years ago, a really remarkable HO railroad in Omaha. J. B. Caldwell was its builder, and the railroad was impressive because of its mechanical uniqueness. For one thing, it was outside third rail (probably one of the last such animals in HO!). But even more striking - and by present day standards more acceptable - were the locomotives, all (if memory serves me right) scratch-built by the road's brass hat. > > The locomotives didn't really look any different than any other piece of average motive power. But when they began to move - there was the difference that caught your eye. Without any apparent effort on the part of the man at the throttle, each would start gradually and smoothly. At speed, they seemed to glide along, and when slowed or stopped, they all exhibited remarkable coasting qualities. > > The secret, if it could be called that, is that each had a fair-sized flywheel. > > No what amazes me is after roughly 25 years of HO model railroading, more modelers and manufacturers haven't taken to the flywheel as a means of improving operation. It seems to be forgotten yet is just about the simplest device that will give an HO mechanism the "mass" it ought to have to run with prototype smoothness. But a flywheel will improve the operation of just about any locomotive in any gauge, and it doesn't take much space. For a manufacturer, its easy to produce. > > It seems we've circled around the flywheel in search of substitutes - that have never really produced the results we've wanted. For example, there have been three or more clutches of one sort or another commercially available. Now I don't have anything against clutches, really, and have used a couple of them extensively, but they're a lot more complicated than a flywheel, and a heck of a lot more difficult to install and maintain. And they produce about the same net effect. > > And then there's pulsed power. It's simply an electrical means of producing extremely low speed operation (effective in certain locos only). A flywheel-equipped locomotive will outshine pulsed power any day of the week. > > I wonder... what ever did happen to the flywheel? > > Paul Larson > ************************************* > > June 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "New Arden HO Demonstrator proves improved coasting distance of motors with flywheels. Read February editorial for full explanation of advantages. For rubber band F-7. 98c a pair." There is a drawing of a motor with a flywheel at each end with one shown in cross section and a not "file flat on shaft" where the set screw will grab. > > Nov 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "HO FLYWHEELS: For rubber band F-7, GP-9 - smoothes operation, doubles coasting distance, pair 98 c" (They also offer a smoke unit and mention "not for plastic boilers".) > > Feb 1960 had an ad for Arden Scale Models "DIESEL FLYWHEELS: For rubber band F-7, GP-9, RDC brass, pair 98 c". (Might be the "smoking gun" for the RDC's in question.) > > No more ads for Arden Scale Models noted after that. > > Some other interesting "hits": > > Nov, 1959 has a Railway Post Office reference to "Pennsylvania Scale Models" flywheels somebody decided to use on an Athearn gear-drive GP-9. This outfit sold traction models so maybe they started doing flywheels about the same time as Arden Scale Models? Just a guess. > > Feb, 1967 from Baumgarten's for "Modified Athearn Diesels" where they put on dual flywheels but they mention only SDP-40 and SD-45. > > NOTE: Tip to others using the MR search of scanned copies: I looked for just "Arden Scale Models" to try and find their very first ad and they are listed as an advertiser in May, 1948 but it didn't hit on their actual ad. (I notice for quite a few issues they offered a hopper car.) They used a sort of script for their name in the ad and I don't think the text converter used by whoever MR contracted with for the scanning could decipher it. > > There were generally so many hits for "flywheels" that I didn't track them all down. I suspect there have been other sources since it is pretty easy to make them. > > My guess is that Arden Model Trains jumped at filling a hole in the market perhaps in response to that editorial. > > Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20458	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?

One more technique I forgot to mention is "peck drilling" where you drill only a very little at a time.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   If you re-read my email, you will see that they were indeed available commercially.   Also, they are available commercially.  Check out the Walthers site, for example, and you will find them offered by Northwest Short Line, A Line Products, Marklin, and Timewell Prec.   http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?quick=flywheel   Athearn sells several as spare parts:   http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?CatId=THCR&SearchTerm=flywheel   My guess is there are some more if you beat the bushes enough.   There is one aspect that is slightly difficult in making such things.  You want a truly concentric shaft hole to avoid any wobble.  That's not the easiest thing to to with small and/or deep holes since drills tend to wander even if you center drill first.  There are techniques regarding this (such as using a "gun drill" or "D bit") or to even drill in from both ends and hope for the best.  I suspect if somebody does garden variety drilling the results might suffer a little.    Chuck Kinzer       ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 60's Athearn RDC... with flywheel?   Interesting info, especially that it took so long for the flywheel concept to catch on. These wouldn't be hard to make with a lathe, but with all of the little cottage industries over the years I wondered if they were ever available commercially. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > I'm pretty sure I saw ads at one time for flywheels, so I did a little searching in the MR digital archive (that you buy) and found a pretty good "smoking gun" in Arden Scale Models ads... > > But first, the Feb 1959 issue has an editorial that is on point that would suggest that none were available at that time (this issue also has the excellent article "Bridges on the Gorre & Daphetid" - those were the days). > > Here is the text of the "At the Throttle" editorial: > > ************************************* > Flywheel? What's that? > > I recall seeing, many years ago, a really remarkable HO railroad in Omaha. J. B. Caldwell was its builder, and the railroad was impressive because of its mechanical uniqueness. For one thing, it was outside third rail (probably one of the last such animals in HO!). But even more striking - and by present day standards more acceptable - were the locomotives, all (if memory serves me right) scratch-built by the road's brass hat. > > The locomotives didn't really look any different than any other piece of average motive power. But when they began to move - there was the difference that caught your eye. Without any apparent effort on the part of the man at the throttle, each would start gradually and smoothly. At speed, they seemed to glide along, and when slowed or stopped, they all exhibited remarkable coasting qualities. > > The secret, if it could be called that, is that each had a fair-sized flywheel. > > No what amazes me is after roughly 25 years of HO model railroading, more modelers and manufacturers haven't taken to the flywheel as a means of improving operation. It seems to be forgotten yet is just about the simplest device that will give an HO mechanism the "mass" it ought to have to run with prototype smoothness. But a flywheel will improve the operation of just about any locomotive in any gauge, and it doesn't take much space. For a manufacturer, its easy to produce. > > It seems we've circled around the flywheel in search of substitutes - that have never really produced the results we've wanted. For example, there have been three or more clutches of one sort or another commercially available. Now I don't have anything against clutches, really, and have used a couple of them extensively, but they're a lot more complicated than a flywheel, and a heck of a lot more difficult to install and maintain. And they produce about the same net effect. > > And then there's pulsed power. It's simply an electrical means of producing extremely low speed operation (effective in certain locos only). A flywheel-equipped locomotive will outshine pulsed power any day of the week. > > I wonder... what ever did happen to the flywheel? > > Paul Larson > ************************************* > > June 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "New Arden HO Demonstrator proves improved coasting distance of motors with flywheels. Read February editorial for full explanation of advantages. For rubber band F-7. 98c a pair." There is a drawing of a motor with a flywheel at each end with one shown in cross section and a not "file flat on shaft" where the set screw will grab. > > Nov 1959 has an ad for Arden Scale Models "HO FLYWHEELS: For rubber band F-7, GP-9 - smoothes operation, doubles coasting distance, pair 98 c" (They also offer a smoke unit and mention "not for plastic boilers".) > > Feb 1960 had an ad for Arden Scale Models "DIESEL FLYWHEELS: For rubber band F-7, GP-9, RDC brass, pair 98 c". (Might be the "smoking gun" for the RDC's in question.) > > No more ads for Arden Scale Models noted after that. > > Some other interesting "hits": > > Nov, 1959 has a Railway Post Office reference to "Pennsylvania Scale Models" flywheels somebody decided to use on an Athearn gear-drive GP-9. This outfit sold traction models so maybe they started doing flywheels about the same time as Arden Scale Models? Just a guess. > > Feb, 1967 from Baumgarten's for "Modified Athearn Diesels" where they put on dual flywheels but they mention only SDP-40 and SD-45. > > NOTE: Tip to others using the MR search of scanned copies: I looked for just "Arden Scale Models" to try and find their very first ad and they are listed as an advertiser in May, 1948 but it didn't hit on their actual ad. (I notice for quite a few issues they offered a hopper car.) They used a sort of script for their name in the ad and I don't think the text converter used by whoever MR contracted with for the scanning could decipher it. > > There were generally so many hits for "flywheels" that I didn't track them all down. I suspect there have been other sources since it is pretty easy to make them. > > My guess is that Arden Model Trains jumped at filling a hole in the market perhaps in response to that editorial. > > Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20459	From: Larry	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit"

Off topic. Have you not been to the grocery store lately?! Oh my garage! Larry Miller III From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1938 "Clark A Benson" B&0 2-10-2 "kit" I found it a bit interesting to see the original price of $16 on the paperwork for the model. Inflation is way under-stated these days. Mike Bauers On Oct 25, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: On 10/25/2012 4:21 PM, luvprr@... wrote: Well, I can only say that the old adage is true: just because something is old and unusual doesn't mean it's worth a whole lot. Of course the market for this kind of stuff is determined by how much it's worth to any given individual. If somebody wants to spend over $1300 for an unknown piece of fairly crude bronze (and it is bronze and not brass--as is claimed by the seller) then it's "worth" that much. If no one wants to spend more than $3 for it, then that's how much its worth. . . . I think the seller put this ad on eBay with tongue-in-cheek to see if anyone bites. I kinda think that ol' Clark A had the same idea in mind when he put it on the market "back in the day." I can't imagine that there was a mob breaking down his door to get copies of this one to build. I agree with John and would pay a couple of bucks to put it on the shelf as a conversation piece of another oddity of days gone by. Art W     In a message dated 10/25/2012 3:39:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sprinthag@... writes: On eBay item 290800518302. I not too concerned about starting any bidding wars as the "sell it now" price is $1.389.00! And that is for a set of rough sand castings. Minor things like drivers and such other incidentals not included. A very interesting item that I would entertain going after for maybe a buck or two but................. John Hagen You don't want a 2-10-2 "Decapool"?  Hey the PFM receipts for some SRR PS-4 parts is worth it, even if they have nothing to do with this model Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20460	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Sandy

On 10/28/2012 10:45 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > To all who will have to deal with Sandy like I will in eastern PA GOOD > LUCK. Most likely I will lose internet service for days. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20461	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Good luck everyone. Stay safe. --- On Sun, 10/28/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Sandy To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 28, 2012, 7:46 AM On 10/28/2012 10:45 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > To all who will have to deal with Sandy like I will in eastern PA GOOD > LUCK. Most likely I will lose internet service for days. > > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20462	From: hooligan	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Sandy ! [stay safe ]

Be careful , stock up , stay warm , Best of Luck ! Henry H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20463	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily reach Chicago. Stay safe! Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20464	From: Glenn	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Send it here!! N. CA needs it bad~ gj -----Original Message----- From: erieberk@... Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily reach Chicago. Stay safe! Ray F.W. </HTML> ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20465	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy

I don' t think u want this one...6 to 10" of rain and 80 mph winds for more than a day? Not gonna be fun. Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT&T ----- Reply message ----- From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [vintageHO] Sandy Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2012 4:35 pm   Send it here!! N. CA needs it bad~ gj -----Original Message----- From: erieberk@... Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:03 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily reach Chicago. Stay safe! Ray F.W. </HTML> ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20466	From: Nelson	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both times. This is getting old. Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Send it here!! N. CA needs it bad~ gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: erieberk@... > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:03 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy > > Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected > by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including > hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and > rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up > through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily > reach Chicago. Stay safe! > > Ray F.W. </HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20467	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Hi Nelson,   Thats usually the case, but then when California does get rain, because everything is already burned out, theres nothing to hold the hills back from becoming a big mudslide, might as well stay where your at!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy   Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both times. This is getting old. Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? Nelson --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Send it here!! N. CA needs it bad~ gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: erieberk@... > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:03 PM > To: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy > > Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected > by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including > hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and > rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up > through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily > reach Chicago. Stay safe! > > Ray F.W. </HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20468	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

I am a few miles to the west of you, Nelson. We had similar outages from those storms, but I have a 60 hp farm tractor that runs a 25 KW generator. So the biggest problem for me (aside from having a diesel engine running wide open directly under the bedroom window) is having to fetch more fuel every day - it burns about a gallon per hour. Since the weather is relatively warm, I may just end up siphoning fuel out of the furnace oil tank... On a modeling note, my layout is set in the early '60s Eastern PA in the late Fall - what I like to think of as the industrial grunge era. I was thinking of adding some post-hurricane aspects to it - downed power lines being restored, washed out ballast being replaced by track gangs, fallen trees being removed, damaged roofs being fixed up, etc. I don't recall the names of damaging storms during that period - "Donna" is the only one that comes to mind. Any thoughts? Mike On 10/29/2012 7:38 AM, Nelson wrote: > Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for > a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween > that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both > times. This is getting old. > > Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? > > Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20469	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Nelson, It's getting too old, with long-delayed responses to restoring power. Saw reports last night though, that JCP&L is much more prepared this time to act much more quickly, with having crews from the mid-West already on hand. Already 1600 homes in the Toms River area without power however, and Sandy is still 275 miles to the south -- as of 8 am. Might be our member Chuck Higdon (in Toms River, NJ) is without power unless we hear from him soon. Direction reports are still varying widely even at this point in time, with some TV stations saying Sandy is just starting to make the turn northwest towards the coastline and other stations saying that it's just now making a move to the northeast. Someone's incompetant here. Best of luck. Ray F.W. in Northeastern NJ</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20470	From: John Barlow	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

--- On Mon, 10/29/12, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 29, 2012, 5:38 AM   Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both times. This is getting old. Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Send it here!! N. CA needs it bad~ gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: erieberk@... > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:03 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy > > Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected > by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including > hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and > rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up > through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily > reach Chicago. Stay safe! > > Ray F.W. </HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > Nelson...try Colorado. A few tornado

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20471	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Hi Ray and all,   So far power is on here in my section of town.  But it is early yet with this storm.  I think I will take the flashlight and go downstairs and run trains.  The wind is howling some.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://s1292.photobucket.com/albums/b574/lordon104/  This one http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 will be closing Dec. 1st.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erieberk@... Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 8:20 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy     Nelson, It's getting too old, with long-delayed responses to restoring power. Saw reports last night though, that JCP&L is much more prepared this time to act much more quickly, with having crews from the mid-West already on hand. Already 1600 homes in the Toms River area without power however, and Sandy is still 275 miles to the south -- as of 8 am. Might be our member Chuck Higdon (in Toms River, NJ) is without power unless we hear from him soon. Direction reports are still varying widely even at this point in time, with some TV stations saying Sandy is just starting to make the turn northwest towards the coastline and other stations saying that it's just now making a move to the northeast. Someone's incompetant here. Best of luck. Ray F.W. in Northeastern NJ </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20472	From: hooligan	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

And now we're getting tornados in Norte' California ! Take good care ! Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, >   > Thats usually the case, but then when California does get rain, because everything is already burned out, theres nothing to hold the hills back from becoming a big mudslide, might as well stay where your at! >   > Gary W >   > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! > > > ________________________________ > From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:38 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy > > >   > > Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both times. This is getting old. > > Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? > > Nelson > > --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > Send it here!! N. CA needs it bad~ gj > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: erieberk@ > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:03 PM > > To: mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Sandy > > > > Best of luck dealing with this storm Jim, and everybody else being affected > > by it. Last I saw, it was 800 to 1000 miles in diameter, when including > > hurricane force and tropical force winds. Full diameter of lesser winds and > > rain extending 1600 miles in diameter. If it's still predicted to run up > > through eastern PA, the maps indicated that the outer fringes would easily > > reach Chicago. Stay safe! > > > > Ray F.W. </HTML> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20473	From: gary pardue	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Hey Guys, Good luck to all of you. Here in SW Virginia we are already getting snow with 2 feet predicted and high winds. The leaves are still on the trees, and I am old enough to remember back in 1962 the same thing happened in Oct. Power was out all over for weeks. Some comfort for some of you. I was traveling south from Roanoke , Va yesterday on I81 and passed at least 100 power company trucks heading north. I have never seen so many. All bucket trucks. All take care and best wishes. Gary Pardue --- On Mon, 10/29/12, erieberk@... <erieberk@...> wrote: From: erieberk@... <erieberk@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 29, 2012, 8:19 AM   Nelson, It's getting too old, with long-delayed responses to restoring power. Saw reports last night though, that JCP&L is much more prepared this time to act much more quickly, with having crews from the mid-West already on hand. Already 1600 homes in the Toms River area without power however, and Sandy is still 275 miles to the south -- as of 8 am. Might be our member Chuck Higdon (in Toms River, NJ) is without power unless we hear from him soon. Direction reports are still varying widely even at this point in time, with some TV stations saying Sandy is just starting to make the turn northwest towards the coastline and other stations saying that it's just now making a move to the northeast. Someone's incompetant here. Best of luck. Ray F.W. in Northeastern NJ</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20474	From: ttcollector60	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Sandy

I am about 20 minutes from Kity Hawk NC and the local TV coverage just advised that the AVOLON FISHING PIER in Kity Hawk has been breached in 2 or 3 places... Saw breakers 25-30 feet high batter the pier on TV... Watch out my friends for much of the same further North and in New England.... G A "Jerry" Golembowski Grandy, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20475	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

YIKES!  My son goes surfing at Rodanthe regularly.  He had to work today, so couldn't go surfing.  I hope Jeanette's Pier is ok.  It should be, it is pretty much all concrete.  I will tell him about the Avalon Pier if he hasn't already heard.  Of course, we all know Hwy 12 is closed. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: golembo@... Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:08:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Sandy   I am about 20 minutes from Kity Hawk NC and the local TV coverage just advised that the AVOLON FISHING PIER in Kity Hawk has been breached in 2 or 3 places... Saw breakers 25-30 feet high batter the pier on TV... Watch out my friends for much of the same further North and in New England.... G A "Jerry" Golembowski Grandy, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20476	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Just north of Philly here. So far a good amount of rain and occasional strong gusts with SKYE forecasts of average wind of 32 mph . Supposed to get much stronger gusts in next 6 hours or so, but the dang TV forecasters make it sound like it's 75 mph all over the place. Be nice if they were a little more discriminating. More people other than at the Jersey Shore might take them a little more seriously. Art W   In a message dated 10/29/2012 3:07:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bitlerisvj@... writes: YIKES!  My son goes surfing at Rodanthe regularly.  He had to work today, so couldn't go surfing.  I hope Jeanette's Pier is ok.  It should be, it is pretty much all concrete.  I will tell him about the Avalon Pier if he hasn't already heard.  Of course, we all know Hwy 12 is closed. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: golembo@... Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:08:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Sandy   I am about 20 minutes from Kity Hawk NC and the local TV coverage just advised that the AVOLON FISHING PIER in Kity Hawk has been breached in 2 or 3 places... Saw breakers 25-30 feet high batter the pier on TV... Watch out my friends for much of the same further North and in New England.... G A "Jerry" Golembowski Grandy, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20477	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/30/2012
Subject: Storm

On 10/30/2012 11:36 AM, Jim Heckard wrote      We survived in great shape. No power lost although people in town ( Shenandoah ) lost power, no trees down and no damage. Better off then most people closer to ocean. Tremendous power outages. I don't think wind and rain as bad as they were thinking for here.  Very thankful .                                                                Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20478	From: lvtrainmeet	Date: 10/30/2012
Subject: Slot Car Show this weekend

Come enjoy 10,000 square feet of Slot Cars, Parts, Customs, Racing and more. All Scales Ho-1/24, All manufactures. AFX,Aurora, Tjets, Tyco, Life Like, Wizzard, Carrera, Slot It, Ninco, Everything from Vintage to new . This is our biggest show yet. Dealers from 4 states, Racing hosted by Echorr and Valley Rail Trains and Hobbies. The Great Lehigh Valley Slot Car Show Merchants Square Mall 1901 S 12th st Allentown Pa 18103 10-3 Saturday November 3rd info http://www.valleygot.com Early Buyer 8.30am $10.00 General Admission 10am $5.00 Dealer tables $25.00 at door day of show 7am Call 610-440-0487 Info.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20479	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 10/30/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Storm

We r 40 miles west of Philly. Lost power for about three hours last night. No trees down and no water damage. Very thankful. Rich Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT&T ----- Reply message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [vintageHO] Storm Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:38 am   On 10/30/2012 11:36 AM, Jim Heckard wrote      We survived in great shape. No power lost although people in town ( Shenandoah ) lost power, no trees down and no damage. Better off then most people closer to ocean. Tremendous power outages. I don't think wind and rain as bad as they were thinking for here.  Very thankful .                                                                Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20480	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20481	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Oh, wow, I just realized that you get an additional A Unit, but that one has not been altered from original.  This shows a good contrast between the two.  The bottom 2 photos show that additional original A Unit. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:12:24 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay   Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20482	From: Tom Hare	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Vic, knowing Dan, my guess is that he is the modeler who did the modifications. Shoot him a message. He will let you know if he, or someone else did the work.  Tom Sent from my iPhone 5 On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:12 PM, bitlerisvj@... wrote:   Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20483	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Thanks Tom, I did not realize it was "our" Dan at Yardbird Trains that had these.  I will try to shoot him an email and see what he says. Thanks and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jodanjackkayla@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:47:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay   Vic, knowing Dan, my guess is that he is the modeler who did the modifications. Shoot him a message. He will let you know if he, or someone else did the work.  Tom Sent from my iPhone 5 On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:12 PM, bitlerisvj@... wrote:   Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20484	From: Tom Hare	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Yes sir,  Not a problem.  Sent from my iPhone 5 On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Thanks Tom, I did not realize it was "our" Dan at Yardbird Trains that had these.  I will try to shoot him an email and see what he says. Thanks and regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jodanjackkayla@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:47:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay   Vic, knowing Dan, my guess is that he is the modeler who did the modifications. Shoot him a message. He will let you know if he, or someone else did the work.  Tom Sent from my iPhone 5 On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:12 PM, bitlerisvj@... wrote:   Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20485	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Note that on the auction (#230872022208) it says they added another, unpowered A unit and added two photos of that unit so the winner will get an ABA set. Also note that the added A has NOT been modified as has the original, powered A unit. So you can go to the auction and do a direct comparison between the modified and un-modified Mantua sharks. The auction also states that the models are from Dan’s collection but indicates he did not do the building.   I’d have to go downstairs and dig out my sharks to check but I’m thinking those nose modifications were done just by filing the noses. I do believe from memory that there is a goodly amount of material in the nose to do it.   That said, if I ever get mine done  as a B&O ABA set maybe I’ll try doing such changes to another one, if I can find one.   My sharks are just shells. I’m going to use a Hobbytown flywheel drive in one A and a late Mantua flywheel diesel drive in the other. When I get a B unit I’ll have to figure out what I’ll use for it. I do have an earlier Hobbytown, non-flywheel drive and a slightly earlier non-flywheel, can motored eight wheel drive Mantua chassis to choose from. Actually I like the idea of using the late Mantua diesel drives to up-date the sharks but what I’d really like to have is one with an original, first generation two motored drive. Those early drives were very smooth and quiet or at least the one I purchased new back in 1953 or 1954 was. At the time I had my LHS order a dual drive for it but it never showed up. I did see one on eBay some time ago but it went for big bucks. Sean, did you get that one? LOL.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20486	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Hi John, When I was about 10 years old, we had an A-B set of the sharks.  They had built in sound.  :o)  Because of the heavy metal bodies, the motor and gear sound was actually pretty cool.   I do have one of the two motor versions.  I would not mind swapping that for a single powered powered B Unit.  I thought about getting the Hobbytown chassis, but never got around to it.  Too late for that now, but now that I found out that maybe I can make the nose look better, I may look into modernizing the original motors with neodymium magnets.  That may make the motors run better. By the way, I emailed Dan Bush and he told me that he picked up the set a while ago at the auction and only now noticed the difference. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:07:04 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay   Note that on the auction (#230872022208) it says they added another, unpowered A unit and added two photos of that unit so the winner will get an ABA set. Also note that the added A has NOT been modified as has the original, powered A unit. So you can go to the auction and do a direct comparison between the modified and un-modified Mantua sharks. The auction also states that the models are from Dan’s collection but indicates he did not do the building.   I’d have to go downstairs and dig out my sharks to check but I’m thinking those nose modifications were done just by filing the noses. I do believe from memory that there is a goodly amount of material in the nose to do it.   That said, if I ever get mine done  as a B&O ABA set maybe I’ll try doing such changes to another one, if I can find one.   My sharks are just shells. I’m going to use a Hobbytown flywheel drive in one A and a late Mantua flywheel diesel drive in the other. When I get a B unit I’ll have to figure out what I’ll use for it. I do have an earlier Hobbytown, non-flywheel drive and a slightly earlier non-flywheel, can motored eight wheel drive Mantua chassis to choose from. Actually I like the idea of using the late Mantua diesel drives to up-date the sharks but what I’d really like to have is one with an original, first generation two motored drive. Those early drives were very smooth and quiet or at least the one I purchased new back in 1953 or 1954 was. At the time I had my LHS order a dual drive for it but it never showed up. I did see one on eBay some time ago but it went for big bucks. Sean, did you get that one? LOL.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay.  However, take a really close look.  I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head.  At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62.  I expect it will go higher.  I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em.  I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added.  Take a look at the nose.  This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose.  Mantua never made a nose like that.  The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose.  These castings aren't cheap, soft lead.  These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal.   Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had.  BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose?  I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that.  I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose.  Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner?  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20487	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive

I do not recall having seen a Mantua 8 wheel drive for the metal sharks. Are they the integral power trucks arranged so that each truck picks up from one of the rails? Roger Aultman -- John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: ============= Note that on the auction (#230872022208) it says they added another, unpowered A unit and added two photos of that unit so the winner will get an ABA set. Also note that the added A has NOT been modified as has the original, powered A unit. So you can go to the auction and do a direct comparison between the modified and un-modified Mantua sharks. The auction also states that the models are from Dan's collection but indicates he did not do the building. I'd have to go downstairs and dig out my sharks to check but I'm thinking those nose modifications were done just by filing the noses. I do believe from memory that there is a goodly amount of material in the nose to do it. That said, if I ever get mine done as a B&O ABA set maybe I'll try doing such changes to another one, if I can find one. My sharks are just shells. I'm going to use a Hobbytown flywheel drive in one A and a late Mantua flywheel diesel drive in the other. When I get a B unit I'll have to figure out what I'll use for it. I do have an earlier Hobbytown, non-flywheel drive and a slightly earlier non-flywheel, can motored eight wheel drive Mantua chassis to choose from. Actually I like the idea of using the late Mantua diesel drives to up-date the sharks but what I'd really like to have is one with an original, first generation two motored drive. Those early drives were very smooth and quiet or at least the one I purchased new back in 1953 or 1954 was. At the time I had my LHS order a dual drive for it but it never showed up. I did see one on eBay some time ago but it went for big bucks. Sean, did you get that one? LOL. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All -Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-Al l-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0> &hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20488	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive

Well, the way it supposed to be the standard power truck was to be self-contained and did not need to pick up power from the dummy truck. That was per the Trade Topics write-up in Model Railroader. If you ordered the extra powered truck that one would pick up power from the self-contained truck. Well the reality was that the most of the models had a power truck that picked up power from the dummy truck, mine included. Since I never received the second power truck I have no idea how it would have worked.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: John Hagen Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive     I do not recall having seen a Mantua 8 wheel drive for the metal sharks. Are they the integral power trucks arranged so that each truck picks up from one of the rails? Roger Aultman -- John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: ============= Note that on the auction (#230872022208) it says they added another, unpowered A unit and added two photos of that unit so the winner will get an ABA set. Also note that the added A has NOT been modified as has the original, powered A unit. So you can go to the auction and do a direct comparison between the modified and un-modified Mantua sharks. The auction also states that the models are from Dan's collection but indicates he did not do the building. I'd have to go downstairs and dig out my sharks to check but I'm thinking those nose modifications were done just by filing the noses. I do believe from memory that there is a goodly amount of material in the nose to do it. That said, if I ever get mine done as a B&O ABA set maybe I'll try doing such changes to another one, if I can find one. My sharks are just shells. I'm going to use a Hobbytown flywheel drive in one A and a late Mantua flywheel diesel drive in the other. When I get a B unit I'll have to figure out what I'll use for it. I do have an earlier Hobbytown, non-flywheel drive and a slightly earlier non-flywheel, can motored eight wheel drive Mantua chassis to choose from. Actually I like the idea of using the late Mantua diesel drives to up-date the sharks but what I'd really like to have is one with an original, first generation two motored drive. Those early drives were very smooth and quiet or at least the one I purchased new back in 1953 or 1954 was. At the time I had my LHS order a dual drive for it but it never showed up. I did see one on eBay some time ago but it went for big bucks. Sean, did you get that one? LOL. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All -Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-Al l-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0> &hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20489	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive

Hmm interesting.  For some reason I feel like there was a wire going from one truck to the other, but I will check on that when I get home tonight. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:44:16 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive   Well, the way it supposed to be the standard power truck was to be self-contained and did not need to pick up power from the dummy truck. That was per the Trade Topics write-up in Model Railroader. If you ordered the extra powered truck that one would pick up power from the self-contained truck. Well the reality was that the most of the models had a power truck that picked up power from the dummy truck, mine included. Since I never received the second power truck I have no idea how it would have worked.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: John Hagen Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive     I do not recall having seen a Mantua 8 wheel drive for the metal sharks. Are they the integral power trucks arranged so that each truck picks up from one of the rails? Roger Aultman -- John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: ============= Note that on the auction (#230872022208) it says they added another, unpowered A unit and added two photos of that unit so the winner will get an ABA set. Also note that the added A has NOT been modified as has the original, powered A unit. So you can go to the auction and do a direct comparison between the modified and un-modified Mantua sharks. The auction also states that the models are from Dan's collection but indicates he did not do the building. I'd have to go downstairs and dig out my sharks to check but I'm thinking those nose modifications were done just by filing the noses. I do believe from memory that there is a goodly amount of material in the nose to do it. That said, if I ever get mine done as a B&O ABA set maybe I'll try doing such changes to another one, if I can find one. My sharks are just shells. I'm going to use a Hobbytown flywheel drive in one A and a late Mantua flywheel diesel drive in the other. When I get a B unit I'll have to figure out what I'll use for it. I do have an earlier Hobbytown, non-flywheel drive and a slightly earlier non-flywheel, can motored eight wheel drive Mantua chassis to choose from. Actually I like the idea of using the late Mantua diesel drives to up-date the sharks but what I'd really like to have is one with an original, first generation two motored drive. Those early drives were very smooth and quiet or at least the one I purchased new back in 1953 or 1954 was. At the time I had my LHS order a dual drive for it but it never showed up. I did see one on eBay some time ago but it went for big bucks. Sean, did you get that one? LOL. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All -Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-Al l-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0> &hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20490	From: John Hagen	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive

Yes that is how it should be. One truck self-contained and the other has a pick-up wire going to the self contained one.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:16 PM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive     Hmm interesting.  For some reason I feel like there was a wire going from one truck to the other, but I will check on that when I get home tonight. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:44:16 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive     Well, the way it supposed to be the standard power truck was to be self-contained and did not need to pick up power from the dummy truck. That was per the Trade Topics write-up in Model Railroader. If you ordered the extra powered truck that one would pick up power from the self-contained truck. Well the reality was that the most of the models had a power truck that picked up power from the dummy truck, mine included. Since I never received the second power truck I have no idea how it would have worked.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raul@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: John Hagen Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive     I do not recall having seen a Mantua 8 wheel drive for the metal sharks. Are they the integral power trucks arranged so that each truck picks up from one of the rails? Roger Aultman -- John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: ============= Note that on the auction (#230872022208) it says they added another, unpowered A unit and added two photos of that unit so the winner will get an ABA set. Also note that the added A has NOT been modified as has the original, powered A unit. So you can go to the auction and do a direct comparison between the modified and un-modified Mantua sharks. The auction also states that the models are from Dan's collection but indicates he did not do the building. I'd have to go downstairs and dig out my sharks to check but I'm thinking those nose modifications were done just by filing the noses. I do believe from memory that there is a goodly amount of material in the nose to do it. That said, if I ever get mine done as a B&O ABA set maybe I'll try doing such changes to another one, if I can find one. My sharks are just shells. I'm going to use a Hobbytown flywheel drive in one A and a late Mantua flywheel diesel drive in the other. When I get a B unit I'll have to figure out what I'll use for it. I do have an earlier Hobbytown, non-flywheel drive and a slightly earlier non-flywheel, can motored eight wheel drive Mantua chassis to choose from. Actually I like the idea of using the late Mantua diesel drives to up-date the sharks but what I'd really like to have is one with an original, first generation two motored drive. Those early drives were very smooth and quiet or at least the one I purchased new back in 1953 or 1954 was. At the time I had my LHS order a dual drive for it but it never showed up. I did see one on eBay some time ago but it went for big bucks. Sean, did you get that one? LOL. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-All -Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set-Al l-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0> &hash=item35c10b7cc0 I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are bidding on. My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, but you cannot always be there at the right time. These sharks have been modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20491	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive

On 10/31/2012 3:15 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: Hmm interesting.  For some reason I feel like there was a wire going from one truck to the other, but I will check on that when I get home tonight. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC The ones I have have the power from one rail on the motorized truck, and the power from the other rail on the dummy truck,with the wire that you remember. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20492	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/31/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive

I just checked mine.  The two motor one has TWO wires.  One wire from each truck going to the other truck.  The single motor version does not use a wire and it uses the steel bar that supports the trucks to make the connection to the other truck for current from the other rail.  None of these trucks can run by themselves.  That is, the conductive wheels are only on one side of each truck and it relies on the other truck to make the complete circuit.  One thing I did figure out is that these motors can indeed be isolated very easily to be run with a DCC decoder.  One brush has a brass tab that connects to the motor frame with a screw.  The screw can be removed and the tab move away from the motor frame and voila, a perfect place to put an orange or gray wire.  YAY!  I also bet the magnet can easily be replaced with neodymium magnets to enhance the performance and drop the current draw.  I may just decide to do that and relegate them from shelf queens to freight haulers. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:35:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua metal shark eight wheel drive   On 10/31/2012 3:15 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote: Hmm interesting.  For some reason I feel like there was a wire going from one truck to the other, but I will check on that when I get home tonight. Regards,  Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC The ones I have have the power from one rail on the motorized truck, and the power from the other rail on the dummy truck,with the wire that you remember. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20493	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

WOW! Those sharks went for $102.50. I bet Dan did not expect that much. I feel like he did pretty good with those. Regards, Vic B. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set\ > -All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Se\ > t-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0\ > > I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take > a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple > take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 > hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. > I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are > bidding on.My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do > not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of > em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I > know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, > but you cannot always be there at the right time.These sharks have been > modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. > This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real > Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, > including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable > to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. > These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough > and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will > notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added > proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any > idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? > I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you > that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get > that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, > maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? > :o)Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20494	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Yeah, but not all that surprising to me. Not when you consider how well they were done. I was hoping they wouldn’t get that high. I had been watching that auction probably from day one but they sure went up towards the end. I did put in two bids, one at $75. And then at $85. But I was instantly out bid on both. That was my limit and had to drop out of the action. Oh well there will be more but they are becoming more rare as time goes by. Now most of what you see are the later Tyco’s with plastic shells and crappy drives.   I wish more sellers would include photos of the underside on the Mantua/Tyco and Varney diesels. Unless a shark is labeled a metal Mantua I just pass on anything that is painted. The same thing with Varney F3’s. I’m looking for early, diecast shells with the “K” in the model number that have the DC71 motor. These have the fully enclosed gearboxes as opposed to the chintzier open bottom gear boxes. I need at least one of the non-motorized gear boxes or even a motorized one as the motor can be removed to get the right one. Reason being I have a very early F3 A&B from my brother that I want to finish up by putting the early CNW freight scheme (green, yellow and black) on it. The A is eight wheel drive but the B is not. These both have the DC71 motors and gear drives, probably the best drive Varney ever produced. Except one could never put sound in them as their native gear noise would drown any electronic system out! Heck, with that drive one doesn’t NEED a sound system. Anyway without having a shot of the undersides of these locos there is no way of telling for sure what type of drive it has.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 8:55 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     WOW! Those sharks went for $102.50. I bet Dan did not expect that much. I feel like he did pretty good with those. Regards, Vic B. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set\ > -All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Se\ > t-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0\ > > I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take > a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple > take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 > hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. > I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are > bidding on.My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do > not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of > em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I > know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, > but you cannot always be there at the right time.These sharks have been > modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. > This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real > Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, > including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable > to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. > These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough > and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will > notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added > proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any > idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? > I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you > that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get > that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, > maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? > :o)Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20495	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

I saw those sharks, and the note about the inclusion of the dummy A unit, and figured they would go for at least a hundred bucks. As nice as they looked, still not a bad deal considering that there are two powered units, and compared to the cost of a plastic diesel today, still a bargain! I didn't bid, as I am more-or-less done with eBay. Still have an account, but no plans to use it again. On the note of the Tyco sharks, I have one that I fitted for dual motors. Everyone's definition of a good runner will be different, but to me, it is more than acceptable at least. Won't say it is a great runner, but does its job quite well with two power trucks. I've also done an ALCO Century 4 axle unit the same way. Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to have halfway decent motors. Then again, in my professional work (In the IT field, mostly with home PCs), I never had issues with Windows ME (Supposedly the worst Microsoft product ever), when nearly everyone else did. Either I'm just lucky, or who knows what? In any event, I kind of now have the push to go ahead and do some work with some Cary F unit bodies I've had sitting around. Might be a good project later today. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 11/1/12, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 1, 2012, 9:23 AM   Yeah, but not all that surprising to me. Not when you consider how well they were done. I was hoping they wouldn’t get that high. I had been watching that auction probably from day one but they sure went up towards the end. I did put in two bids, one at $75. And then at $85. But I was instantly out bid on both. That was my limit and had to drop out of the action. Oh well there will be more but they are becoming more rare as time goes by. Now most of what you see are the later Tyco’s with plastic shells and crappy drives.   I wish more sellers would include photos of the underside on the Mantua/Tyco and Varney diesels. Unless a shark is labeled a metal Mantua I just pass on anything that is painted. The same thing with Varney F3’s. I’m looking for early, diecast shells with the “K” in the model number that have the DC71 motor. These have the fully enclosed gearboxes as opposed to the chintzier open bottom gear boxes. I need at least one of the non-motorized gear boxes or even a motorized one as the motor can be removed to get the right one. Reason being I have a very early F3 A&B from my brother that I want to finish up by putting the early CNW freight scheme (green, yellow and black) on it. The A is eight wheel drive but the B is not. These both have the DC71 motors and gear drives, probably the best drive Varney ever produced. Except one could never put sound in them as their native gear noise would drown any electronic system out! Heck, with that drive one doesn’t NEED a sound system. Anyway without having a shot of the undersides of these locos there is no way of telling for sure what type of drive it has.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bitlerisvj@... Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 8:55 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     WOW! Those sharks went for $102.50. I bet Dan did not expect that much. I feel like he did pretty good with those. Regards, Vic B. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hey folks, check out eBay auction 230872022208. > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Set\ > -All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0 > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-Shark-Nose-Diesel-Powered-A-Powered-B-Se\ > t-All-Die-cast-NICE-/230872022208?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c10b7cc0\ > > I know, I know, there are always Mantua Sharks on eBay. However, take > a really close look. I did, not just do a double take, but a triple > take and am still shaking my head. At this point, there is still 8 > hours left on the auction and this beautiful A-B set is already at $62. > I expect it will go higher. I think the bidders know what they are > bidding on.My point is; if you look closely at this set, they really do > not look like the regular Mantua cast metal sharks, I know, I have 3 of > em. I am always on a lookout for a B Unit at a decent price, yeah, I > know, I have kicked myself several times missing out on some good bids, > but you cannot always be there at the right time.These sharks have been > modified considerably and many details added. Take a look at the nose. > This Shark's nose was definitely altered to look more like the real > Baldwin's nose. Mantua never made a nose like that. The other items, > including the bent rain gutter brow over the door, are fairly reasonable > to do, but I sure would like to know how the modeler did the nose. > These castings aren't cheap, soft lead. These castings are very tough > and very good Zamac, way stronger than pot metal. Also if you will > notice, the modeler removed the silly number board on the nose and added > proper side boards like the prototype had. BTW, does anyone have any > idea why that single number board was cast onto the front of the nose? > I don't believe I have ever seen a prototype with that. I will tell you > that these photos sure inspired me and maybe one of my Sharks will get > that treatment, when I figure out a decent way to shave the nose. Hmm, > maybe I can find and out of work sculptor and buy him dinner? > :o)Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20496	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Ah yes,   Cary shells are really a good way to build a very nice F unit. Or a FM or SW1500 and even Alco’s S-2’s if one can get past the wider hoods. I did many S-2’s, a couple of S-1’s (it could be done with some extra work), at least eight F3’s and FT’s plus a SW1500 and FM or two. These were all with the real Cary lead antimony shells made by Cary founder Don Stromberg (r.i.p.). Those F’s and one SW1500 were done for a friend who used Hobbytown drives. Boy those locos would pull! He had one ABA set of multi-drive FT’s (yes, I did modify the B unit for a factory ABA design without the long overhang on the back end) with a O scale size Sagami can motor in the B unit. It wasn’t that hard to do some pretty major rebuilding of those shells as the lead antimony alloy could be soldered using normal methods. It was necessary to be careful with the heat as it was possible to do some melting of the shell. No torches please.   The only problem was that it was a relatively slow process to drill for grab irons and other small diameter holes as the drill flutes could easily get jammed up with chips and the bit would break. So I always did them by hand so I could back the bits out often.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:40 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     I saw those sharks, and the note about the inclusion of the dummy A unit, and figured they would go for at least a hundred bucks. As nice as they looked, still not a bad deal considering that there are two powered units, and compared to the cost of a plastic diesel today, still a bargain! I didn't bid, as I am more-or-less done with eBay. Still have an account, but no plans to use it again. On the note of the Tyco sharks, I have one that I fitted for dual motors. Everyone's definition of a good runner will be different, but to me, it is more than acceptable at least. Won't say it is a great runner, but does its job quite well with two power trucks. I've also done an ALCO Century 4 axle unit the same way. Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to have halfway decent motors. Then again, in my professional work (In the IT field, mostly with home PCs), I never had issues with Windows ME (Supposedly the worst Microsoft product ever), when nearly everyone else did. Either I'm just lucky, or who knows what? In any event, I kind of now have the push to go ahead and do some work with some Cary F unit bodies I've had sitting around. Might be a good project later today. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20497	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

I had the great fortune to pick up an FT A-B-B-A set, and an F3 A-B-B-A set of shells as new-old stock at the hobby shop. Plus a couple spare A unit shells of both types. I do have the S-2 switcher, and it is a real nice puller. Four powered units with the older round magnet motor Athearn mechanisms, you could probably pull a tree stump out with them! But, they all need major cosmetic help right now. Been packed away for quite a while, time to get 'em going now! How did you do the FTSB (Short B unit for A-B-A lashups)? Isn't that unit a couple feet shorter? Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 11/1/12, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 1, 2012, 10:01 AM   Ah yes,   Cary shells are really a good way to build a very nice F unit. Or a FM or SW1500 and even Alco’s S-2’s if one can get past the wider hoods. I did many S-2’s, a couple of S-1’s (it could be done with some extra work), at least eight F3’s and FT’s plus a SW1500 and FM or two. These were all with the real Cary lead antimony shells made by Cary founder Don Stromberg (r.i.p.). Those F’s and one SW1500 were done for a friend who used Hobbytown drives. Boy those locos would pull! He had one ABA set of multi-drive FT’s (yes, I did modify the B unit for a factory ABA design without the long overhang on the back end) with a O scale size Sagami can motor in the B unit. It wasn’t that hard to do some pretty major rebuilding of those shells as the lead antimony alloy could be soldered using normal methods. It was necessary to be careful with the heat as it was possible to do some melting of the shell. No torches please.   The only problem was that it was a relatively slow process to drill for grab irons and other small diameter holes as the drill flutes could easily get jammed up with chips and the bit would break. So I always did them by hand so I could back the bits out often.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:40 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     I saw those sharks, and the note about the inclusion of the dummy A unit, and figured they would go for at least a hundred bucks. As nice as they looked, still not a bad deal considering that there are two powered units, and compared to the cost of a plastic diesel today, still a bargain! I didn't bid, as I am more-or-less done with eBay. Still have an account, but no plans to use it again. On the note of the Tyco sharks, I have one that I fitted for dual motors. Everyone's definition of a good runner will be different, but to me, it is more than acceptable at least. Won't say it is a great runner, but does its job quite well with two power trucks. I've also done an ALCO Century 4 axle unit the same way. Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to have halfway decent motors. Then again, in my professional work (In the IT field, mostly with home PCs), I never had issues with Windows ME (Supposedly the worst Microsoft product ever), when nearly everyone else did. Either I'm just lucky, or who knows what? In any event, I kind of now have the push to go ahead and do some work with some Cary F unit bodies I've had sitting around. Might be a good project later today. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20498	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Yes they are but it was really just a matter of lopping off the extra length after cutting the end off. Then reattach the end. The hard part was adding the “peak” to the roof of the cut off end. For some reason the B’s end did not have one. I did that using brass shim stock and some putty. Ended up looking very convincing.   One of my S-2’s (GB&W #201) had a 2032 Sagami motor, Ernst gearing and as much added lead as I could stuff in. It could pull real good. But my friends SW1500 with the Hobbytown drive would out pull it. That said he had an industrial area on his layout that was difficult to reach and his SW1500, which only had four wheel pick-up as Hobbytown BB’s drive without added pickups or sliders do, it would stall on a turnout every so often. On the occasions when that happened when I had my S-2 there I would run my S-2 down to drag the heavy s.o.b off the dead spot. Since it had a an Athearn based drive with eight wheel pick up it would do this service admirably.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 10:48 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay     I had the great fortune to pick up an FT A-B-B-A set, and an F3 A-B-B-A set of shells as new-old stock at the hobby shop. Plus a couple spare A unit shells of both types. I do have the S-2 switcher, and it is a real nice puller. Four powered units with the older round magnet motor Athearn mechanisms, you could probably pull a tree stump out with them! But, they all need major cosmetic help right now. Been packed away for quite a while, time to get 'em going now! How did you do the FTSB (Short B unit for A-B-A lashups)? Isn't that unit a couple feet shorter? Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20499	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

Hey guys, Anyone else notice this locomotive currently selling on ebay. It looks to me to be a Mikado someone cut the chassis apart on and created this 2-8-8-2 logger. It looks pretty cool, but it is up to $200 with less than an hour to go... Really?  It does look to be quite nicely done and even the front set of drivers are powered.  Vintage HO Scale Mantua Undecorated 2-4-4-2 Steam Locomot... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20500	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

Been watching it but it went beyond my ability (or willingness) to bid rather quickly. But it certainly does appear to be well constructed.   John Hagen   From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:30 PM To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay     Hey guys,   Anyone else notice this locomotive currently selling on ebay. It looks to me to be a Mikado someone cut the chassis apart on and created this 2-8-8-2 logger. It looks pretty cool, but it is up to $200 with less than an hour to go... Really?    It does look to be quite nicely done and even the front set of drivers are powered.    Vintage HO Scale Mantua Undecorated 2-4-4-2 Steam Locomot... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20501	From: Tom Hare	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

I think the drivers are too far apart to be a mike chassis. I suspect two shifter chassis with mike drivers. Look at the space between the drivers. Definitely a cool engine. Tom Sent from my iPhone 5 On Nov 1, 2012, at 2:35 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Been watching it but it went beyond my ability (or willingness) to bid rather quickly. But it certainly does appear to be well constructed.   John Hagen   From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:30 PM To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay     Hey guys,   Anyone else notice this locomotive currently selling on ebay. It looks to me to be a Mikado someone cut the chassis apart on and created this 2-8-8-2 logger. It looks pretty cool, but it is up to $200 with less than an hour to go... Really?    It does look to be quite nicely done and even the front set of drivers are powered.    Vintage HO Scale Mantua Undecorated 2-4-4-2 Steam Locomot... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20502	From: oljoe@bex.net	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

LOOK at the very odd position of the right front piece going to the eccentric crank. Something just isn't "right" about what I see. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20503	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

I agree with both you Joe and Tom. I spotted the rod right away and then after taking  photo of the underside and blowing it up, I can clearly see the chassis is made up of 0-4-0 chassis. At $202, someone paid a lot.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "oljoe@..." <oljoe@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RE: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay   LOOK at the very odd position of the right front piece going to the eccentric crank. Something just isn't "right" about what I see. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20504	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

Well it went for $202.50. Someone did a good snipe bid on it. Timed it just right to prevent any additional bidding.   I think you are correct in it having two shifter frames especially after looking at the underside photos. Does anyone recognize what the boiler is made out of? It appears to be a diecast something with an extra smoke box section grafted on.   I’d like to hear from who ever won it about how it runs once he/she has it.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hare Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RE: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay     I think the drivers are too far apart to be a mike chassis. I suspect two shifter chassis with mike drivers. Look at the space between the drivers. Definitely a cool engine.   Tom Sent from my iPhone 5 On Nov 1, 2012, at 2:35 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Been watching it but it went beyond my ability (or willingness) to bid rather quickly. But it certainly does appear to be well constructed.   John Hagen   From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:30 PM To: vintage HO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay     Hey guys,   Anyone else notice this locomotive currently selling on ebay. It looks to me to be a Mikado someone cut the chassis apart on and created this 2-8-8-2 logger. It looks pretty cool, but it is up to $200 with less than an hour to go... Really?    It does look to be quite nicely done and even the front set of drivers are powered.    Vintage HO Scale Mantua Undecorated 2-4-4-2 Steam Locomot... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20505	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

Saw that. That is just the radius link being flipped around. See that ever so often on model photos especially on eBay. I think it happens when someone ham fists them when taking photos. It should be a very simple fix.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of oljoe@... Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:54 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RE: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay     LOOK at the very odd position of the right front piece going to the eccentric crank. Something just isn't "right" about what I see. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20506	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

That happens when the model is turned over.  That is one reason locomotives should not be operated when they are upside down.   Who ever built this thing was an old craftsman.  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Saw that. That is just the radius link being flipped around. See that ever > so often on model photos especially on eBay. I think it happens when someone > ham fists them when taking photos. It should be a very simple fix. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of oljoe@... > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RE: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling > on eBay > > > > > > LOOK at the very odd position of the right front piece going to the > eccentric crank. Something > just isn't "right" about what I see. > > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20507	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

While this is slightly off our usual topics, I am asking the help of this group in trying to identify who might have been the builder of the loco shown in these photos. The locomotive is a scratchbuilt HOn2 (not HOn30 -- the gauge is 7mm!) model of the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes #9. Here is a link to the album. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1292202546/pic/list I have already contacted Bob Hayden, one of the pioneers in HOn30 modeling and he has said that it is definitely NOT one of Allan W. Hanson's locomotives. Because many in this group are around my age or even older, I am asking if any of you remember or know of anyone who was working in true HOn2 back in the 1960s. From the looks of the loco, and the motor it appears to have been built in the 1960s. Any thoughts or names would be greatly appreciated. Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20508	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Matt, Sorry I can not help, but that is really really one cool piece! Is that all you have is the one piece?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 7:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco   While this is slightly off our usual topics, I am asking the help of this group in trying to identify who might have been the builder of the loco shown in these photos. The locomotive is a scratchbuilt HOn2 (not HOn30 -- the gauge is 7mm!) model of the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes #9. Here is a link to the album. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1292202546/pic/list I have already contacted Bob Hayden, one of the pioneers in HOn30 modeling and he has said that it is definitely NOT one of Allan W. Hanson's locomotives. Because many in this group are around my age or even older, I am asking if any of you remember or know of anyone who was working in true HOn2 back in the 1960s. From the looks of the loco, and the motor it appears to have been built in the 1960s. Any thoughts or names would be greatly appreciated. Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20509	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Sean, It is a beautiful loco -- someone with excellent modeling skills built this one from scratch. And yes, this is the only piece I have. I suspect there were more but I also must sadly guess that this was from an estate and has been separated from other pieces such as cars and buildings. There is no indication that it was ever painted so I don't know if the builder actually used it much, although there is a little wheel wear. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Matt, > > Sorry I can not help, but that is really really one cool piece! Is that all you have is the one piece? >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20510	From: Charles	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

I also saw the ebay auction for this very interesting item. It looks to me like the "coal" load is even made from brass? Also, the bottom views clearly showing relative wheel gauge gives a good idea of how close 2 foot gauge is to walking a tightrope. You might also ask on the brasscollectors Yahoo group. Maybe there are other Yahoo groups or other special interest groups for 2 foot narrow gauge or Sandy River or similar? I assume you have contacted the seller. You could maybe do more detective work if you knew where in the country it came from. Perhaps there are some old model railroad clubs in the area that might have a member that know something. I have one of those Model Railroader 75 year discs all loaded up on my computer. This might have shown up in a "Trackside Photos" or something. I'll search for it when I get a chance, but that might not be until late Saturday or Sunday. If the person was a "lone wolf" modeler, you may never know. Just to speculate a littel more: It might itself be a "lone wolf" item and not have anything else made by the person. It might have been a "one off" done more as a project just to show it could be done and not part of a larger modeling effort for that railroad. I think in those terms sometimes, so can imagine others might. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > It is a beautiful loco -- someone with excellent modeling skills built this one from scratch. And yes, this is the only piece I have. I suspect there were more but I also must sadly guess that this was from an estate and has been separated from other pieces such as cars and buildings. There is no indication that it was ever painted so I don't know if the builder actually used it much, although there is a little wheel wear. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Matt, > > > > Sorry I can not help, but that is really really one cool piece! Is that all you have is the one piece? > >   > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20511	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Matt, I would post this on the Yahoo based Brass Collectors board and see if they have any idea of the origin. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > While this is slightly off our usual topics, I am asking the help of this group in trying to identify who might have been the builder of the loco shown in these photos. The locomotive is a scratchbuilt HOn2 (not HOn30 -- the gauge is 7mm!) model of the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes #9. Here is a link to the album. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1292202546/pic/list > > I have already contacted Bob Hayden, one of the pioneers in HOn30 modeling and he has said that it is definitely NOT one of Allan W. Hanson's locomotives. Because many in this group are around my age or even older, I am asking if any of you remember or know of anyone who was working in true HOn2 back in the 1960s. From the looks of the loco, and the motor it appears to have been built in the 1960s. > > Any thoughts or names would be greatly appreciated. > > Matt Coleman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20512	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Chuck, Thanks for the suggestions! I have a question into the seller, but from his initial reply, it was part of an estate in the Connecticut area, but he was never in touch with the original estate seller, he is just dealing with some of the train stuff. And yes, the coal load is from brass. There is no tender deck because the motor sticks up too high so this was a clever way to get more room for the motor. And I will post to the brass collectors group. I am a member but they aren't very active. Thanks again! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > I also saw the ebay auction for this very interesting item. > > It looks to me like the "coal" load is even made from brass? > > Also, the bottom views clearly showing relative wheel gauge gives a good idea of how close 2 foot gauge is to walking a tightrope. > > You might also ask on the brasscollectors Yahoo group. Maybe there are other Yahoo groups or other special interest groups for 2 foot narrow gauge or Sandy River or similar? > > I assume you have contacted the seller. You could maybe do more detective work if you knew where in the country it came from. Perhaps there are some old model railroad clubs in the area that might have a member that know something. > > I have one of those Model Railroader 75 year discs all loaded up on my computer. This might have shown up in a "Trackside Photos" or something. I'll search for it when I get a chance, but that might not be until late Saturday or Sunday. > > If the person was a "lone wolf" modeler, you may never know. > > Just to speculate a littel more: It might itself be a "lone wolf" item and not have anything else made by the person. It might have been a "one off" done more as a project just to show it could be done and not part of a larger modeling effort for that railroad. I think in those terms sometimes, so can imagine others might. > > Chuck Kinzer >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20513	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Denny, Thanks! Will do. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Matt, > > I would post this on the Yahoo based Brass Collectors board and see if > they have any idea of the origin. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20514	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay

This is interesting point as the mantua kits tell you to break in their loco kits by running them upside down for 15 minutes in each direction before putting on layout,I wonder how many times valve gear has gotten jammed during this operation.Thanks for the tip I have 3 of them ready for break-in at the moment that I have completed in the last few days.  Alan From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 6:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling on eBay   That happens when the model is turned over.  That is one reason locomotives should not be operated when they are upside down.   Who ever built this thing was an old craftsman.  Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Saw that. That is just the radius link being flipped around. See that ever > so often on model photos especially on eBay. I think it happens when someone > ham fists them when taking photos. It should be a very simple fix. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of oljoe@... > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:54 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RE: [yardbirdtrains] Custom Mantua 2-4-4-2 selling > on eBay > > > > > > LOOK at the very odd position of the right front piece going to the > eccentric crank. Something > just isn't "right" about what I see. > > Joe O'Loughlin >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20515	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

-- Was there a company in the east called "TRAIN AND TROOPER" that sold 2' gauge models in several scales? Roger Aultman -- ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: ============= While this is slightly off our usual topics, I am asking the help of this group in trying to identify who might have been the builder of the loco shown in these photos. The locomotive is a scratchbuilt HOn2 (not HOn30 -- the gauge is 7mm!) model of the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes #9. Here is a link to the album. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1292202546/pic/list I have already contacted Bob Hayden, one of the pioneers in HOn30 modeling and he has said that it is definitely NOT one of Allan W. Hanson's locomotives. Because many in this group are around my age or even older, I am asking if any of you remember or know of anyone who was working in true HOn2 back in the 1960s. From the looks of the loco, and the motor it appears to have been built in the 1960s. Any thoughts or names would be greatly appreciated. Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20516	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down

Alan, I split this off the discussion about the 2-4-4-2. If you are running something with basic rod action like the Mantua General then running it upside down will be O K however anything with Walschaerts or Baker type valve gear could drop out of position and jam.   That not be so good.  Don't forget to lap the gears when breaking them in.  Pearl Drop tooth paste ( don't ask me where you get it these days) or Jewelers Rouge or some such light abrasive will work well. I use an old tube of very aggressive Colgate tooth paste.  Completely clean it off after the break in and before lubing.  Also watch your AMP meter during the break in process.  As the liquid evaporates out of the lapping compound after a half hour or so of break in running it puts more strain on the motor and you do not want it to over heat. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20517	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Chuck Higdon

I sent an email to see if I could contact Chuck Higdon in Toms River NJ . He just answered. He still has no power but his home is fine. He has a 400' extension cord running to a friends that has power. He mentioned he can only answer an email if sent to him. He explained why but I not tech savvy . I also tried to contact Ray F W in New Milford NJ but got no reply so far. I just thought some members would be interested how other members are making out. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20518	From: wlon17	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Removing A.F. tender shell

Hi all, I just bought two A.F. Hudsons with smoke in tender. The engines run but the chuggers and/or smoke need maintenence. What is the secret of getting the shells off. The ones without smoke come off with three screws but these have the added complication of the filling tube and smoke tube. Thanks for any infomation. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20519	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Re: Chuck Higdon

I am in northwestern NJ. There was very little damage to buildings, but the wind took out a lot of trees and subsequent power lines. I have been without power since Monday afternoon, but phone/data lines came back Wednesday. I am running on a tractor-powered whole house generator, but I need to get gas every day. I am told that I am not likely to have power back until some time next week. It isn't much fun, but considering the tragic situation that some others in the NJ/NY/CT area are dealing with, I really have no complaints. On 11/2/2012 7:11 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > I sent an email to see if I could contact Chuck Higdon in Toms River > NJ . He just answered. He still has no power but his home is fine. > He has a 400' extension cord running to a friends that has power. He > mentioned he can only answer an email if sent to him. He explained > why but I not tech savvy . > > I also tried to contact Ray F W in New Milford NJ but got no reply so > far. I just thought some members would be interested how other > members are making out. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20520	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Re: Chuck Higdon

As for me, we just got power 45 minutes ago. We would have been fine if it weren't for a single branch of 1 tree that messed up the cables in our neighborhood. It took 'em all this time to get here as we are apparently at the bottom of the food chain in an area that had a relatively small number of outages . However, I also appreciate that there have to be priorities. . . . Art W   In a message dated 11/3/2012 6:51:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mikesloane@... writes: I am in northwestern NJ. There was very little damage to buildings, but the wind took out a lot of trees and subsequent power lines. I have been without power since Monday afternoon, but phone/data lines came back Wednesday. I am running on a tractor-powered whole house generator, but I need to get gas every day. I am told that I am not likely to have power back until some time next week. It isn't much fun, but considering the tragic situation that some others in the NJ/NY/CT area are dealing with, I really have no complaints. On 11/2/2012 7:11 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > I sent an email to see if I could contact Chuck Higdon in Toms River >  NJ . He just answered. He still has no power but his home is fine. > He has a 400' extension cord running to a friends that has power. He > mentioned he can only answer an email if sent to him. He explained > why but I not tech savvy . > > I also tried to contact Ray F W in New Milford NJ but got no reply so > far. I just thought some members would be interested how other > members are making out. > > Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20521	From: topstokes	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: varney 4-6-2 streamline

Have varney brass streamline pacific for restoration. If interested contact me a topstokes@....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20522	From: Nelson	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Re: Sandy

Mike, Donna was the hurricane that devastated Pennsy in 1960 because I believe it tracked right up the Delaware. My mother always told me about a neighbor whose husband and son were on a Boy Scout camping trip on the Delaware when it hit... no bodies of anyone in their troop were ever recovered. I was only without power for 48 hours, but Comcast is down in my area for the foreseeable future, so I don't know when I'll be online again. I'm at a family member's house who only got power back late on Fri. nite. It's bad here, and it was impossible to go anywhere for a few days. Gas is still hard to come by, but we're the lucky ones compared to what some people are going thru right now. I guess there are plenty of photos on the web now for modeling inspiration. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I am a few miles to the west of you, Nelson. We had similar outages from > those storms, but I have a 60 hp farm tractor that runs a 25 KW > generator. So the biggest problem for me (aside from having a diesel > engine running wide open directly under the bedroom window) is having to > fetch more fuel every day - it burns about a gallon per hour. Since the > weather is relatively warm, I may just end up siphoning fuel out of the > furnace oil tank... > > On a modeling note, my layout is set in the early '60s Eastern PA in the > late Fall - what I like to think of as the industrial grunge era. I was > thinking of adding some post-hurricane aspects to it - downed power > lines being restored, washed out ballast being replaced by track gangs, > fallen trees being removed, damaged roofs being fixed up, etc. I don't > recall the names of damaging storms during that period - "Donna" is the > only one that comes to mind. > > Any thoughts? > > Mike > > On 10/29/2012 7:38 AM, Nelson wrote: > > Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for > > a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween > > that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both > > times. This is getting old. > > > > Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? > > > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20523	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy

I may be wrong, but I think there were two hurricanes that hit PA back then... Hazel and Connie. I don't remember Donna? As to this year, we are about 40 miles west of Philly and only lost power for about 3 hours and had no wind, tree or water damage. We were very fortunate. Richard   Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT&T ----- Reply message ----- From: "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sandy Date: Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:25 am   Mike, Donna was the hurricane that devastated Pennsy in 1960 because I believe it tracked right up the Delaware. My mother always told me about a neighbor whose husband and son were on a Boy Scout camping trip on the Delaware when it hit... no bodies of anyone in their troop were ever recovered. I was only without power for 48 hours, but Comcast is down in my area for the foreseeable future, so I don't know when I'll be online again. I'm at a family member's house who only got power back late on Fri. nite. It's bad here, and it was impossible to go anywhere for a few days. Gas is still hard to come by, but we're the lucky ones compared to what some people are going thru right now. I guess there are plenty of photos on the web now for modeling inspiration. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I am a few miles to the west of you, Nelson. We had similar outages from > those storms, but I have a 60 hp farm tractor that runs a 25 KW > generator. So the biggest problem for me (aside from having a diesel > engine running wide open directly under the bedroom window) is having to > fetch more fuel every day - it burns about a gallon per hour. Since the > weather is relatively warm, I may just end up siphoning fuel out of the > furnace oil tank... > > On a modeling note, my layout is set in the early '60s Eastern PA in the > late Fall - what I like to think of as the industrial grunge era. I was > thinking of adding some post-hurricane aspects to it - downed power > lines being restored, washed out ballast being replaced by track gangs, > fallen trees being removed, damaged roofs being fixed up, etc. I don't > recall the names of damaging storms during that period - "Donna" is the > only one that comes to mind. > > Any thoughts? > > Mike > > On 10/29/2012 7:38 AM, Nelson wrote: > > Battened down here in north central NJ. If you don't hear from me for > > a week, I've lost power. Last year it was snow just before Halloween > > that took out tons of trees, a month later Irene hit. Lost power both > > times. This is getting old. > > > > Let's see... California just has fires and earthquakes, right? > > > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20524	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: Removing A.F. tender shell

Lon, The cap screws off and the tube nipple out the front of the tender screws off as well. Usually they are not too tight and I use a smooth surface set of pliers to grip them and screw them off. There is a nut like hex shape to the very end of the tube that is inside and against smoke unit. You would need a small socket to go through the tender opening if you try one. I have also used a combination of liquid wrench and heat to get stubborn tube nipples off. After those, it is just the 3 (or 4 screws) on the underside.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: wlon17 <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 10:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Removing A.F. tender shell   Hi all, I just bought two A.F. Hudsons with smoke in tender. The engines run but the chuggers and/or smoke need maintenence. What is the secret of getting the shells off. The ones without smoke come off with three screws but these have the added complication of the filling tube and smoke tube. Thanks for any infomation. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20525	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Chuck Higdon

Hi Jim, Noticed your email from last Friday on the group site early (around 4 am) this morning, after finally completing the catching up on my email backlog. Your off-line message was as far as I got yesterday, when I told you my power was restored (out, from last Monday evening. Others here may also be interested to know I'm back up and running with comparatively little damage being done except for two patches of roofing shingles. Many people down on the Jersey shore have no homes left, including in Toms River.. Glad to see that Chuck H. home came though this storm okay. Nice to see he has a helpful neighbor sharing the power with him too. Lots of people -- hundreds of thousands -- are still without power now and may not all get it back until this coming Friday. With a Nor'easter coming in on Wednesday, I have to really feel for those people as they also have no heat and it could bring some snow. Another concern is for our member W. Jay W. who lives over in Morris County, about 20 miles from here. Let's hope he's alright. Best, Ray Wetzel (Ray F. W.)</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20526	From: Charles	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

(Also cross posted on brasscollectors group) I searched the MR archive for all sorts of search combinations and the most promising (only one promising, actually) seems to be an article in January, 1978 titled "Introducing the Allagash Cartel - a Group of Seven Men Who are Fascinated by Maine 2-Foot Gauge Equipment". Written by Peter Tuttle. (Also, in the Feb 77 issue, he had written a letter about a scratchbuilt SR&RL caboose he had built.) Information from the article: First, the names: The group started with the following people: David Newcomb George Konrad Allan Hanson Then joined by: Tom Landrigan Peter Tuttle Later to join were: Jim Kelly Jimmy Dunlop Mentioned later helping with the HOn2 layout: Bob Hayden Dave Frary Here is some text from a section of the article titled "A pioneer in 2-foot-gauge railroading": "It all started with a bet. Allan Hanson said he could. Al Lalime, his friend, neighbor, and fellow model railroader, said he couldn't. Two months later Al Hanson won the bet when he produced a working HOn2 locomotive..." "...But Al Hanson wasn't alone in his fascination with 2-foot gauge. A local youngster, 15-year old Bob Hayden, and another Swampscott neighbor, Dave Frary, joined Al in working on the HOn2 layout..." The article talks about how Hanson changed from HOn2 to ON2 and has photos of that. But it also has photos of his HOn2. A color photo appears to have a painted Forney on a turntable. The photo is of a HOn2 portable layouts displayed at the NMRA Northeastern Region in 1961. It says it wond best of show. A second black and white photo is of an HOn2 Mogul and refers to it as the second scratchbuilt locomotive he built. Since the Mogul was the second, the Forney pictured was almost certainly the first. I then searched for "Allan Hanson" and "Al Hanson" and, besides the pages in the January, 1978 issue, only found a couple of references to him regarding structure building. So I couldn't find any featured reference for the Forney. So, I don't know if this is "the" engine you have with the paint removed or something. But if not, it may be an engine known to any surviving members (or their families) mentioned above. Good Luck Chuck Kinzer <SNIP>> > -- ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > ============= > While this is slightly off our usual topics, I am asking the help of this group in trying to identify who might have been the builder of the loco shown in these photos. The locomotive is a scratchbuilt HOn2 (not HOn30 -- the gauge is 7mm!) model of the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes #9. Here is a link to the album. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1292202546/pic/list > > I have already contacted Bob Hayden, one of the pioneers in HOn30 modeling and he has said that it is definitely NOT one of Allan W. Hanson's locomotives. Because many in this group are around my age or even older, I am asking if any of you remember or know of anyone who was working in true HOn2 back in the 1960s. From the looks of the loco, and the motor it appears to have been built in the 1960s. > > Any thoughts or names would be greatly appreciated. > > Matt Coleman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20527	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down

Denny,    Thanks for the info..Is there an advantage to running them upside down?If so its easy enough to disconnect main rod and valve gear  and cyl. as assm. I have 3 mantua loco mechanisms built and  ready for break-in.I will have to first remove grease from gears to lap them,I have extra shorter crankpins to run without mains.I've mixed some baking soda in with toothpaste to polish/smooth bearing surfaces and reduce stiffness in these mechanisms rolling them back and forth on track,after cleaning off toothpaste,lubing and reassembly they roll freely ,I suppose this would be about the same.I hadn't thought about increased draw from drying gears,I was planning to use ammeter on the big 6 as at first motor (held in hand) slowly turned with 12 volts even after lubing motor shaft bearings,rpm slowly increased with running and it doesn't take as much voltage to get it going,is this normal for old unused mantua motors,how much draw shoiuld I expect?An easy way to test for abrasive in toothpaste is to see how well it cleans tarnish off discolored coins rubbing with fingers.  Thanks,  Alan From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 3:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down   Alan, I split this off the discussion about the 2-4-4-2. If you are running something with basic rod action like the Mantua General then running it upside down will be O K however anything with Walschaerts or Baker type valve gear could drop out of position and jam.   That not be so good.  Don't forget to lap the gears when breaking them in.  Pearl Drop tooth paste ( don't ask me where you get it these days) or Jewelers Rouge or some such light abrasive will work well. I use an old tube of very aggressive Colgate tooth paste.  Completely clean it off after the break in and before lubing.  Also watch your AMP meter during the break in process.  As the liquid evaporates out of the lapping compound after a half hour or so of break in running it puts more strain on the motor and you do not want it to over heat. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20528	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down

Alan, I am not sure what vintage Mantua motors you have.  Do your models have enclosed gear boxes or not? I am assuming these are open frame motors and not can motors.  They should start around 3 volts and less than 3 tenths of an amp when not installed.  When installed they should start the drivers turning at about 3-4 volts with between 3 and 4 tenths of an amp.  If your pulling something like 6 volts or more to get the motor started than something is not properly lubed.  Yes old motors will require a bit more voltage because the magnets weaken.  Did you clean the brass motor commutator that the brushes ride on?  If you go to my WEB site, you can download my Remotoring and Regearing clinic in PDF format.  In the clinic, which is dealing with brass engines, I note that with the motor and gear box removed the chassis, with all the mechanism installed, should roll freely on a sheet of glass.  If it does not, then you need to find the bind in the mechanism and fix it before trying to break in the gears and running gear.  I also show how to polish the brass motor commutator. To answer your question, No there is no benefit to running the locomotive upside down during break in.  O nce you have the chassis so it will roll freely on the glass or smooth surface, and the motor and gear box are installed, leave everything attached but block the loco up and let it run for about an hour in each direction at a moderate speed.  When that is done, take the gear box apart and clean it out by washing it in water with a grease reducing dish washing liquid or Pine Sol.  Relube it and reassemble it and it should run smooth.   I show the lubricants I use for my locomotives in the clinic. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: > > Denny, >    Thanks for the info..Is there an advantage to running them upside down?If so its easy enough to disconnect main rod and valve gear  and cyl. as assm. I have 3 mantua loco mechanisms built and  ready for break-in.I will have to first remove grease from gears to lap them,I have extra shorter crankpins to run without mains.I've mixed some baking soda in with toothpaste to polish/smooth bearing surfaces and reduce stiffness in these mechanisms rolling them back and forth on track,after cleaning off toothpaste,lubing and reassembly they roll freely ,I suppose this would be about the same.I hadn't thought about increased draw from drying gears,I was planning to use ammeter on the big 6 as at first motor (held in hand) slowly turned with 12 volts even after lubing motor shaft bearings,rpm slowly increased with running and it doesn't take as much voltage to get it going,is this normal for old unused mantua motors,how much draw shoiuld I expect?An > easy way to test for abrasive in toothpaste is to see how well it cleans tarnish off discolored coins rubbing with fingers. >  Thanks, >  Alan > > > > ________________________________ > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 3:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Breaking in Locomotives and running them up side down > > >   > > Alan, > I split this off the discussion about the 2-4-4-2. > If you are running something with basic rod action like the Mantua General then running it upside down will be O K however anything with Walschaerts or Baker type valve gear could drop out of position and jam.   That not be so good.  > Don't forget to lap the gears when breaking them in.  Pearl Drop tooth paste ( don't ask me where you get it these days) or Jewelers Rouge or some such light abrasive will work well. I use an old tube of very aggressive Colgate tooth paste.  Completely clean it off after the break in and before lubing.  Also watch your AMP meter during the break in process.  As the liquid evaporates out of the lapping compound after a half hour or so of break in running it puts more strain on the motor and you do not want it to over heat. > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com  > Facebook: CWRailman  >   >   >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20529	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Chuck, Thank you! That is a great list to start the research. I have been in touch with Bob Hayden already but this adds a number of names to the list. I remember reading this article decades ago but until you mentioned it in this post it never crossed my mind. Thanks!! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > (Also cross posted on brasscollectors group) > > I searched the MR archive for all sorts of search combinations and the most promising (only one promising, actually) seems to be an article in January, 1978 titled "Introducing the Allagash Cartel - a Group of Seven Men Who are Fascinated by Maine 2-Foot Gauge Equipment". Written by Peter Tuttle. (Also, in the Feb 77 issue, he had written a letter about a scratchbuilt SR&RL caboose he had built.) > > Information from the article: > > First, the names: > > The group started with the following people: > > David Newcomb > George Konrad > Allan Hanson > > Then joined by: > > Tom Landrigan > Peter Tuttle > > Later to join were: > > Jim Kelly > Jimmy Dunlop > > Mentioned later helping with the HOn2 layout: > > Bob Hayden > Dave Frary > > Here is some text from a section of the article titled "A pioneer in 2-foot-gauge railroading": > > "It all started with a bet. Allan Hanson said he could. Al Lalime, his friend, neighbor, and fellow model railroader, said he couldn't. Two months later Al Hanson won the bet when he produced a working HOn2 locomotive..." "...But Al Hanson wasn't alone in his fascination with 2-foot gauge. A local youngster, 15-year old Bob Hayden, and another Swampscott neighbor, Dave Frary, joined Al in working on the HOn2 layout..." > > The article talks about how Hanson changed from HOn2 to ON2 and has photos of that. But it also has photos of his HOn2. A color photo appears to have a painted Forney on a turntable. The photo is of a HOn2 portable layouts displayed at the NMRA Northeastern Region in 1961. It says it wond best of show. A second black and white photo is of an HOn2 Mogul and refers to it as the second scratchbuilt locomotive he built. > > Since the Mogul was the second, the Forney pictured was almost certainly the first. > > I then searched for "Allan Hanson" and "Al Hanson" and, besides the pages in the January, 1978 issue, only found a couple of references to him regarding structure building. So I couldn't find any featured reference for the Forney. > > So, I don't know if this is "the" engine you have with the paint removed or something. But if not, it may be an engine known to any surviving members (or their families) mentioned above. > > Good Luck > > Chuck Kinzer > > <SNIP>> > > -- ablecynic <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > ============= > > While this is slightly off our usual topics, I am asking the help of this group in trying to identify who might have been the builder of the loco shown in these photos. The locomotive is a scratchbuilt HOn2 (not HOn30 -- the gauge is 7mm!) model of the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes #9. Here is a link to the album. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1292202546/pic/list > > > > I have already contacted Bob Hayden, one of the pioneers in HOn30 modeling and he has said that it is definitely NOT one of Allan W. Hanson's locomotives. Because many in this group are around my age or even older, I am asking if any of you remember or know of anyone who was working in true HOn2 back in the 1960s. From the looks of the loco, and the motor it appears to have been built in the 1960s. > > > > Any thoughts or names would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Matt Coleman > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20530	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

I may be out in left field, but there was a line of brass kit imports under the name "Flying Zoo" back in the 70s or early 80s for a short period of time. These people had HOn2  (and n 2- 1/2 ?)motive power kits but I have no catalog listings. Just recall having had them in stock at my hobby shop of the era. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20531	From: John Barlow	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

I second the motion. Seriously, I remember that line but never dabbled in it. I saw them in Denver at the old location for Caboose Hobbies, but the inventory was low. The German plastic MiniTrains was greater in HOn2 & 1/2 in inventory and sales.   I remember a Shinohara twin gauge crossing in HO and HOn3 or HOn2&1/2. It has not been available for years.   John ********************************************************************************************************** --- On Tue, 11/6/12, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote: From: Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 8:03 AM    I may be out in left field, but there was a line of brass kit imports under the name "Flying Zoo" back in the 70s or early 80s for a short period of time. These people had HOn2  (and n 2- 1/2 ?)motive power kits but I have no catalog listings. Just recall having had them in stock at my hobby shop of the era. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20532	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Merle, Thanks for your thoughts and comments. Flying Zoo was a line of exquisite brass locos from Japan, but they are far newer than this loco. They had beautifully etched-brass superstructures (this one is handmade with embossed oversize rivets) and delicate Japanese mechanisms. The loco I have is definitely scratchbuilt from sheet brass, uses an older-style (possibly Romford Terrier) open frame motor and has brass, not plated, drivers like Flying Zoo had. Based on the motor and the parts used, it was most likely built in the late 1950s or very early 60s in the Northeast. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote: > > > > > �I may be out in left field, but there was a line of brass kit imports under the name "Flying Zoo" back in the 70s or early 80s for a short period of time. These people had HOn2� (and n 2- 1/2 ?)motive power kits but I have no catalog listings. Just recall having had them in stock at my hobby shop of the era. > Merle Rice >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20533	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: ADD or something like it

O ne of the reasons I like this board is because from all the posts I get the idea that members actually work on their models.  Building and operating vintage kits and sharing their experiences.  The other night I looked down at my work space and had to chuckle at the mess from various projects.  I decided to describe it in my current blog.  I'll bet there are a few of you who have had the same experience.  I may start researching ADD next.  Now where was I? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20534	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: ADD or something like it

Sounds very familiar. Except your desk in the photo is much more organized than mine! A friend of mine that is a Dr. Who fan, refers to my home as a Tardis. From the outside, you'd think there is no way it could contain as much model railroading stuff as it does. That's why I call my home the "Madison Street Yards". -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 11/7/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] ADD or something like it To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 7, 2012, 10:42 AM   O ne of the reasons I like this board is because from all the posts I get the idea that members actually work on their models.  Building and operating vintage kits and sharing their experiences.  The other night I looked down at my work space and had to chuckle at the mess from various projects.  I decided to describe it in my current blog.  I'll bet there are a few of you who have had the same experience.  I may start researching ADD next.  Now where was I? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20535	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Vic, I've gone back to your message containing the link to Dan's Mantua Shark Nose Diesel eBay site a number of times, yet still can't find any modification of this A Unit's nose. While the photo is a "3/4" view, it's taken as favoring the side rather than the front, so this may be preventing me from what you're seeing, but perhaps you can clarify your findings. One thing that I do seem to notice though, is that this model has a more solid pilot than many other similar but more open ones that allow for the Mantua coupler. But then as we know, this is not a modeler modification; a number of my Mantua A Unit Sharks came from the factory this way -- apparently changed at the time of one of the later runs -- so I know this is not what you're referring to, but I don't yet see any other modification, unless you mean what appears to possibly be a coupler mounted though the otherwise solid pilot Thanks in advance for pointing out what I'm failing to see, if that's not it. Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20536	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Hi Ray, The powered shark, the first A Unit has a more prototypical shaped nose, very much like the prototype Baldwin RF-16.  The second A unit has a more flattened nose, the typical one you see on most Mantua/Tyco Sharks.  If you look at the photos of most Mantua Sharks, even the plastic ones, they have a more flattened nose, not a sloping and slightly curved down nose.  The difference is pretty noticeable if you are looking for it.  I have noticed that the Mantua Sharks have a very different nose than the other manufacturers.  The more correct nose started with the Model Power Sharks. Now, having said that I took a really close look at my own VERY OLD Sharks and my noses are nowhere near as flattened out as most Mantua/Tyco Sharks I see.  I bet somewhere along the line, some work was done or a bad repair was made to the dies that changed it.  Mind you, mine are not as sloped as the prototype or as nice as the plastic ones you can get these days, but it is somewhat sloping.  I am sure I can make it even better with judicious use of a file, but am not sure I really want to.  The other very noticeable modification is the removal of the silly single number board that was right on the front of the nose.  This silly add on that Mantua did was kind of strange and I have never seen a prototype Shark photo of that, but who knows, maybe it was on a demonstrator?  I am not exactly sure which versions had the open coupler door, but I can tell you that the one we had way back around 1962 did not come with the coupler door opened.  My older brother spent a lot of time very carefully openeng it up and filing it nicely.  When he was done, it looked like it came that way from the factory. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 21:16:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay   Vic, I've gone back to your message containing the link to Dan's Mantua Shark Nose Diesel eBay site a number of times, yet still can't find any modification of this A Unit's nose. While the photo is a "3/4" view, it's taken as favoring the side rather than the front, so this may be preventing me from what you're seeing, but perhaps you can clarify your findings. One thing that I do seem to notice though, is that this model has a more solid pilot than many other similar but more open ones that allow for the Mantua coupler. But then as we know, this is not a modeler modification; a number of my Mantua A Unit Sharks came from the factory this way -- apparently changed at the time of one of the later runs -- so I know this is not what you're referring to, but I don't yet see any other modification, unless you mean what appears to possibly be a coupler mounted though the otherwise solid pilot Thanks in advance for pointing out what I'm failing to see, if that's not it. Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20537	From: wlon17	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Traction tires for Mehano diesel.

Hi, I have a Mehano F9 that barely stays on the track. The problem is that the traction tires are gone. Any suggestions on haw to fix this problem? Any one want to fill me in on the history of the company and/or engine? Has anyone tried building up Bull Frog Snot to form traction tires? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20538	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: new vintage addition

On 11/8/2012 9:14 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > I won a vintage engine tonight on eBay. Not a big item but a > rare item. Go to 160913373673 Revell HO B&O F-7 non powered > dummy diesel engine When Revell was first producing their HO trains > there were only two road names , Santa and B&O, that had dummy > engines paired with a powered engine that was sold to the public. They > both made in 1958-1959. T-3502 was the number for the B&O. T-3504 was > the number for the Santa Fe passenger set. With this dummy A unit I > now have both sets. The dummies have a special frame that is good only > for the dummy engines. > > Revell did produce a promo dummy for the Santa Fe freight F-7. > No date. T-3510 that was to go with the T-3510 Powered Santa Fe > freight to make a set. It was a promo and never sold to the public as > only 1 was know to be made. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20539	From: Tom Hare	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Re: new vintage addition

HI Jim, I am your seller. Glad you got it and I will ship it out tomorrow. Thanks, Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 11/8/2012 9:14 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > I won a vintage engine tonight on eBay. Not a big item but a > > rare item. Go to 160913373673 Revell HO B&O F-7 non powered > > dummy diesel engine When Revell was first producing their HO trains > > there were only two road names , Santa and B&O, that had dummy > > engines paired with a powered engine that was sold to the public. They > > both made in 1958-1959. T-3502 was the number for the B&O. T-3504 was > > the number for the Santa Fe passenger set. With this dummy A unit I > > now have both sets. The dummies have a special frame that is good only > > for the dummy engines. > > > > Revell did produce a promo dummy for the Santa Fe freight F-7. > > No date. T-3510 that was to go with the T-3510 Powered Santa Fe > > freight to make a set. It was a promo and never sold to the public as > > only 1 was know to be made. > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20540	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Traction tires for Mehano diesel.

Someone suggested at one time a replacement for the rubber bands on old Hi-F Athearn drives. I got some, but they didn't work for the drives (not stretchy enough), but I think they might be good for traction tires. I found them at Wal-mart, but the "dollar stores" and similar might have them also. They are in the cosmetics section and are sold for girls to use for hair braids and such. They are in a "blister pack" and there are about 100 of different sizes and colors in the package for about a dollar. So there isn't a big investment to try them out. If this description isn't adequate, I will take a picture of the package and post it later today. (By the way, I did find a use for them - the turntable plate on my microwave was slipping, and I put some on the little "wheels" that make the plate turn, and they worked very nicely!) Mike On 11/8/2012 9:10 PM, wlon17 wrote: > Hi, I have a Mehano F9 that barely stays on the track. The problem is > that the traction tires are gone. Any suggestions on haw to fix this > problem? Any one want to fill me in on the history of the company and/or > engine? Has anyone tried building up Bull Frog Snot to form traction > tires? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20541	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Hi Vic, Thanks for your attempt at trying to clarify what you mean to me, when stating there was a modification in the nose of one of Dan Bush's Shark Nose models -- but I fail to see what you mean after going back to the site to compare them, as they both appear to me to have the same slant in the nose. Part of my not grasping what you're trying to relate is no doubt due to my not understanding what you mean by the second unit having a more "flattened" nose. Again, I see nothing in this second unit's nose that looks any more vertical than the powered unit -- they both have the noticeable slant to the nose -- and I'm assuming you mean slanted when you mention "sloping," as opposed to being more vertical. I've never seen a Mantua Shark not having a slanting/sloping nose, whether it be an early version or a later one. If however, you mean that the second unit's slanted nose is not completely rounded as it wraps around to the sides, all Mantua Shark Nose Diesels (at least. all of mine) are like this -- including the prototype's -- but I don't know if this is what you're referring to. These Baldwin noses are not like EMD F Units, and don't have a continual curve wrapping around the nose. While the Shark's nose is somewhat rounded as it curves out from the center line towards the sides, it's much less rounded out to a transition point that appears just ahead of the number boards on the nose's sides (or, about where the bottom of the "V" striping on the nose on these Pennsy units meet the pilot). That transition point can clearly be seen on the unpowered unit. While this is not noticed on the powered unit, that's probably just due to the lighting, or lack of it. The appearance of number boards on the sides of the nose was a definite modification to Mantua's single number board cast as part of the nose's front. No prototype Sharks ever had one single number board on the front of the nose, not even the Baldwin demonstrators, or at least none that I've seen. Another modification noticed on the models was the removal of one of the window posts on the cab's side windows. The original Mantua (and prototype) window configuration is one slanted (forward edge) window towards the front of the cab and three equally sized windows going back to the door -- not one window being twice as long as the remaining one. There one exception to the Sharks having the total of four cab windows on each side, and that was when the D&H acquired #1205 and #1216; they filled in the last window to the rear (although the window outline still remained, where it could be seen as filled in). BTW, this "semi-flattened" (if by that, it fits the description I outlined) nose on Mantua Sharks starts when they first introduced the model, with the transition line on the wrap-around. At that time, the pilot was open, as a wide and high slot to accomodate the Mantua coupler mounted on the front truck. The closed pilot, being completely cast with no opening came later when Mantua incorporated a horn hook coupler on the rear truck (but nothing on the front truck.). While many of the earlier Mantua Sharks came unpainted, Mantua offered later productions as factory painted, with Baldwin demonstrator colors (red, yellow and silver) as one of these pre-painted schemes, having the horn-hooks. Model Power Sharks have the wrong cab window configuration, with one fewer window than the prototype. . Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20542	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Hi again Ray, Yes, it is difficult to convey this via words.  I guess when I said front, I really should have said the TOP of the nose on most Mantua/Tyco Sharks is pretty much straight HORIZONTAL, but the real Raymond Loewy design slopes down from the windshield toward the front.  Most Mantua/Tyco Sharks are pretty much flat on the horizontal from the windshield toward the nose.  I won't dispute there are issues with the Model Power Sharks, but I felt they had a better sloped nose on the TOP of the nose.  Now, I wil say that most photographs I have seen of Mantua and especially Tyco sharks, the top of the nose is really pretty much on a flat horizontal plane compared to the other manufacturers. I noticed this difference right away on one of Dan's Sharks.  The other one just appears to be more flat.  When I see more photos of Mantua's sharks, I will try to remember to point out this "feature". Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:21:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay   Hi Vic, Thanks for your attempt at trying to clarify what you mean to me, when stating there was a modification in the nose of one of Dan Bush's Shark Nose models -- but I fail to see what you mean after going back to the site to compare them, as they both appear to me to have the same slant in the nose. Part of my not grasping what you're trying to relate is no doubt due to my not understanding what you mean by the second unit having a more "flattened" nose. Again, I see nothing in this second unit's nose that looks any more vertical than the powered unit -- they both have the noticeable slant to the nose -- and I'm assuming you mean slanted when you mention "sloping," as opposed to being more vertical. I've never seen a Mantua Shark not having a slanting/sloping nose, whether it be an early version or a later one. If however, you mean that the second unit's slanted nose is not completely rounded as it wraps around to the sides, all Mantua Shark Nose Diesels (at least. all of mine) are like this -- including the prototype's -- but I don't know if this is what you're referring to. These Baldwin noses are not like EMD F Units, and don't have a continual curve wrapping around the nose. While the Shark's nose is somewhat rounded as it curves out from the center line towards the sides, it's much less rounded out to a transition point that appears just ahead of the number boards on the nose's sides (or, about where the bottom of the "V" striping on the nose on these Pennsy units meet the pilot). That transition point can clearly be seen on the unpowered unit. While this is not noticed on the powered unit, that's probably just due to the lighting, or lack of it. The appearance of number boards on the sides of the nose was a definite modification to Mantua's single number board cast as part of the nose's front. No prototype Sharks ever had one single number board on the front of the nose, not even the Baldwin demonstrators, or at least none that I've seen. Another modification noticed on the models was the removal of one of the window posts on the cab's side windows. The original Mantua (and prototype) window configuration is one slanted (forward edge) window towards the front of the cab and three equally sized windows going back to the door -- not one window being twice as long as the remaining one. There one exception to the Sharks having the total of four cab windows on each side, and that was when the D&H acquired #1205 and #1216; they filled in the last window to the rear (although the window outline still remained, where it could be seen as filled in). BTW, this "semi-flattened" (if by that, it fits the description I outlined) nose on Mantua Sharks starts when they first introduced the model, with the transition line on the wrap-around. At that time, the pilot was open, as a wide and high slot to accomodate the Mantua coupler mounted on the front truck. The closed pilot, being completely cast with no opening came later when Mantua incorporated a horn hook coupler on the rear truck (but nothing on the front truck.). While many of the earlier Mantua Sharks came unpainted, Mantua offered later productions as factory painted, with Baldwin demonstrator colors (red, yellow and silver) as one of these pre-painted schemes, having the horn-hooks. Model Power Sharks have the wrong cab window configuration, with one fewer window than the prototype. . Ray F.W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20543	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Having owned and sold a handful of the Flying zoo models, I can definately say this is not even close to those. The mechanisms on the Zoo locos were very fragile (almost rinky-dink) with their little plastic gears (or brass gears). This one is of a much sturdier construction and screams 1940's - 1950's construction to me.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 8:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco   Merle, Thanks for your thoughts and comments. Flying Zoo was a line of exquisite brass locos from Japan, but they are far newer than this loco. They had beautifully etched-brass superstructures (this one is handmade with embossed oversize rivets) and delicate Japanese mechanisms. The loco I have is definitely scratchbuilt from sheet brass, uses an older-style (possibly Romford Terrier) open frame motor and has brass, not plated, drivers like Flying Zoo had. Based on the motor and the parts used, it was most likely built in the late 1950s or very early 60s in the Northeast. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote: > > > > > �I may be out in left field, but there was a line of brass kit imports under the name "Flying Zoo" back in the 70s or early 80s for a short period of time. These people had HOn2� (and n 2- 1/2 ?)motive power kits but I have no catalog listings. Just recall having had them in stock at my hobby shop of the era. > Merle Rice >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20544	From: JimW	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism

Folks - I have one of these cast metal, not brass, in the Cary box, did not come with a boiler front, but I am including one. If anyone is interested, let me know, I wanted to give the folks in this group the first look before posting on ebay. Has no additional details. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20545	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Mantua cast metal Sharks on eBay

Hi Vic, Your latest description using the TOP of the nose is much more clearer for me, thanks. I know what you mean though, in trying to convey this picture in words. I'm about to try to describe this nose, first in the prototype, and then in both the Mantua and the Model Power models as I see them. I hope my description can be followed. On the prototype Baldwin RF-16, freight -- and DR-6-4-20, passenger -- (Sharks), while the top of the nose has a definite slanted curve at the centerline -- between the two windshields, and going forward -- the sides of the top of the nose (where it meets the verticle wrap around curve of the nose) has an even greater slant/curve going forward. Looking at the side of the nose, this line (profile) of the outer edges of the top of the nose is almost in line with the top of the headlight at it's forward/outer edges on each side. There's still a good distance on top of the headlight though, where the centerline of this top-of-nose profile meets the forward vertically slanted edge of the nose. Now, just as you said, the Mantua Shark's top of nose profile at the centerline does not have as great of a slant/curve as does the Model Power model -- but this line on the Mantua model is closest to the prototype. However, and as is very noticeable when compared to the prototype, the line/profile of the outer edges of the top of the nose of this model where it meets the verticle sides is perfectly horizontal (which of course it shouldn't be). On the other hand, the Model Power's top-of-nose centerline profile has a much greater slant/curve than this model's top-of-nose sides (where it meets the verticle wrap-around portion of the nose), which should really be reversed if it were to match the prototype. Not only shouldn't the outer edges of the top of the nose have a greater angle/curvature going forward to be a bit more in line with the top of the headlight, but the centerline curvature of the nose shouldn't be as accentuated. So, actually neither model truly represents the prototype's nose. Taking another look back at Dan's ebay site, I see no difference between the top-of-hood outer edges profile of the powered model and the dummy model -- these lines are horizontal on both models -- typically Mantua. On one of Dan's models, the top-of-hood far side outer edge profile almost looks to appear as though it's the top-of-hood centerline profile (which can fool the observer into thinking it's more curved) is more slanted, when it's really not. BTW, touching back on the cast metal Mantua Shark having the solid pilot, I forgot to mention that these later models have a lighted headlight and (two) lighted front of nose marker lights. The body casting has a headlight opening and two marker light (not number board) openings, whereas the early model headlight and marker lights where solid, but with the raised round rims indicating their location. There's a pressed metal partition installed in the nose/cab about half-way up inside the body (to prevent stray light from beaming down onto the track and into the cab itself) where, the socket and bulb are installed in the nose, inside of this partition. There are no lenses, but there's nothing to prevent the modeler from adding them if he prefers. I believe there was also some discussion on a wire running from the power truck to the unpowered truck. None of my early Mantua Sharks have this wire. My later (and lighted) Mantua Sharks do have a wire running from the (rear) power truck to the front truck (and from the front truck to the lighting unit), but I don't know if this is to complete the motor circuit; I suspect it may only be needed for the nose bulb lighting unit. Both motors look similar to me, so one motor shouldn't need any additional wire if the other one doesn't. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20546	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Request for help in identifying builder of HOn2 Brass Loco

Sean, You are correct about it being "robust." I was able to get it to run (there is a short when the body is on it so I need to do some insulation work) but when it ran, it was strong and quite reasonable in speed. Who ever did this was an exceptional modelmaker! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Having owned and sold a handful of the Flying zoo models, I can definately say this is not even close to those. The mechanisms on the Zoo locos were very fragile (almost rinky-dink) with their little plastic gears (or brass gears). This one is of a much sturdier construction and screams 1940's - 1950's construction to me. >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20547	From: Richard	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed

Hi to all, I am currently restoring a very old MDC Atlantic and it is missing the trailing truck. Perhaps someone on this group has a spare one that I can purchase. If so, would you kindly email me off list. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20548	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed

I would bet that Boswer has very nice replacement for an Atlantic trailing truck.  Call them up, they may even have an MDC one.  If not a Bowser one should be fine. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: rh@... Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:12:47 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed   Hi to all, I am currently restoring a very old MDC Atlantic and it is missing the trailing truck. Perhaps someone on this group has a spare one that I can purchase. If so, would you kindly email me off list. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20549	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed

Hello Richard You may find a listing of the trailing truck herehttp://hoseeker.net/mdcmiscellaneous.html --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I would bet that Boswer has very nice replacement for an Atlantic trailing truck. Call them up, they may even have an MDC one. If not a Bowser one should be fine. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: rh@... > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:12:47 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi to all, > > I am currently restoring a very old MDC Atlantic and it is missing the trailing truck. Perhaps someone on this group has a spare one that I can purchase. If so, would you kindly email me off list. Thanks. > > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20550	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/12/2012
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb Diesel and other items available

Clearing out some items.  Due to the success in remotoring my Ken Kidder 0-4-0 which I described on the Projects page of my WEB site the Penn Line Whitcomb diesel I was going to use for my project is no longer necessary. I have it along with the can motor and NWSL gears I was going to use, as well as some other vintage kits, listed on my WEB site on the Hobby Shop page.   If anyone is interested let me know otherwise some of these items will be headed to Ebay.   In the Ken Robbins Vintage items directory of the photo section of this board, he shows a nice looking belt driven assembly which is probably better than the geared drive I was going to do.    Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20551	From: ablecynic	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Diesel and other items available

By the way, thank you again for the photo guide to re-motoring the Ken Kidder loco. I have an LMB 0-4-4-0T that is essentially the same locomotive drive (LMB picked up some of the Kidder production after he quit the business,) just a different superstructure and I was making a new main rod for it this weekend I realized I could remotor it exactly the same way. You are a wizard with this stuff. Thanks for the insight and the inspiration! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Clearing out some items. Due to the success in remotoring my Ken Kidder > 0-4-0 which I described on the Projects page of my WEB site the Penn > Line Whitcomb diesel I was going to use for my project is no longer > necessary. I have it along with the can motor and NWSL gears I was going > to use, as well as some other vintage kits, listed on my WEB site > <http://www.cwrailman.com/> on the Hobby Shop page. If anyone is > interested let me know otherwise some of these items will be headed to > Ebay. > > > > In the Ken Robbins Vintage items directory of the photo section of this > board, he shows a nice looking belt driven assembly which is probably > better than the geared drive I was going to do. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20552	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Penn Line Whitcomb Diesel and other items available

Matt, O ver the years I have had several of those 0-4-4-0T loco's in the shops but do not have one here right now.  I believe that model made use of the same or similar cab to the Ken Kidder/LMB 2-6-2T series of loco's.  There are two issues for you to consider.  First is the floor to underside of cab clearance.  The second, which I know is a problem on the 2-6-2T series, is the distance from the inside of the cab front wall to the centerline of the motor shaft.  That is about 7mm and if you use this motor you need a minimum of 8mm. I do have several of the 2-6-2T's around and have experimented with that swap.  Now, if you install a NWSL 28:1 worm gear on the axle, (which can only be done on the 2-6-2T if you discard the trailing truck), and a comparable worm on the motor, since the worm gear is larger in diameter, it allows you to move the motor a bit further back away from the cab wall.  ( I am working from memory on the configuration here and I believe the worm is positioned behind the worm gear on that model. If not then ignore what I am saying.)  If that is the case, I believe the swap will work with the 28:1 gears installed.  It would make a dramatic change in how that model performs.  About half the starting speed and smoother through all the speed ranges.  I would like to see progress photo's if you decide to do the change out. By the way, on those 0-4-4-0T's I always soldered a slider plate on the front set of drivers and mount a soft spring between the boiler and that plate.  That allows the boiler to actually put some weight on that front set of drivers without removing weight from the back set of drivers. Denny CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > By the way, thank you again for the photo guide to re-motoring the Ken Kidder loco. I have an LMB 0-4-4-0T that is essentially the same locomotive drive (LMB picked up some of the Kidder production after he quit the business,) just a different superstructure and I was making a new main rod for it this weekend I realized I could remotor it exactly the same way. > > You are a wizard with this stuff. Thanks for the insight and the inspiration! > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" cwrailman@ wrote: > > > > > > Clearing out some items. Due to the success in remotoring my Ken Kidder > > 0-4-0 which I described on the Projects page of my WEB site the Penn > > Line Whitcomb diesel I was going to use for my project is no longer > > necessary. I have it along with the can motor and NWSL gears I was going > > to use, as well as some other vintage kits, listed on my WEB site > > <http://www.cwrailman.com/> on the Hobby Shop page. If anyone is > > interested let me know otherwise some of these items will be headed to > > Ebay. > > > > > > > > In the Ken Robbins Vintage items directory of the photo section of this > > board, he shows a nice looking belt driven assembly which is probably > > better than the geared drive I was going to do. > > > > Denny > > > > Janitor in Training > > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > > > Facebook: CWRailman > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20553	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20554	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

Nelson, Yes, Westside did that model about the same time they did the 2-10-2 that was made from splitting the 2-10-10-2's.  As 2-10-10-2's they were not very successful and did not last in that configuration for very long.  As 2-10-2 they lasted much longer.  The model does not run well and does require large radius.  The 2-10-2 is a nice running model and with the small drivers is great for shortlines that have a 24" minimum radius.  I recently installed a flat can motor in one of the 2-10-2's and it ran extremely well.  Last year I sold a 2-10-10-2 for a customer and as the case for many articulated locomotives that have not been run for a while or at all it did not run well. Denny CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 > > Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20555	From: Richard Dipping	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

Here's a pic of the 2-10-2, although it may not be a Westside - there's no original box.   http://prr8157.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5kxo0c   Richard -----Original Message----- From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 3:18 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 Nelson, Yes, Westside did that model about the same time they did the 2-10-2 that was made from splitting the 2-10-10-2's.  As 2-10-10-2's they were not very successful and did not last in that configuration for very long.  As 2-10-2 they lasted much longer.  The model does not run well and does require large radius.  The 2-10-2 is a nice running model and with the small drivers is great for shortlines that have a 24" minimum radius.  I recently installed a flat can motor in one of the 2-10-2's and it ran extremely well.  Last year I sold a 2-10-10-2 for a customer and as the case for many articulated locomotives that have not been run for a while or at all it did not run well. Denny CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 > > Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20556	From: Rick Jones	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

On 11/13/2012 12:00 PM, Nelson wrote: > I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 > > Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are > powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. Yep, I bought one of those new back when Westside released them. I've always had a preference for unusual engines - cab forwards, Climaxes, Shays, Heislers, the GN 2-6-8-0 and 2-8-8-0 articulateds, decapods. I have very few of the common wheel arrangements in my batch of engines - a few consolidations are the most normal wheel arrangements I own. The 2-10-10-2 is a nice runner, very smooth, and watching all of those wheels turn is a dream. It also came with a belt buckle, which I don't see any mention of it in the eBay listing. At least I can keep watch in this listing and get an idea of the current value of mine. -- Rick Jones "One cat just leads to another." - Ernest Hemingway

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20557	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

Richard, I believe the one shown in your link was the Key model of the larger 3800 class 2-10-2.  Here is a link to the Westside model which was the 1600 class locomotive made out of the 3000 class 2-10-10-2's.   http://cwrailman.com/Sale%20items/Westside%20ATSF%202-10-2.jpg Denny CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Here's a pic of the 2-10-2, although it may not be a Westside - there's no original box. > > http://prr8157.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5kxo0c > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > To: vintageHO vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 3:18 pm > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 > > > > > > Nelson, > Yes, Westside did that model about the same time they did the 2-10-2 that was made from splitting the 2-10-10-2's. As 2-10-10-2's they were not very successful and did not last in that configuration for very long. As 2-10-2 they lasted much longer. The model does not run well and does require large radius. The 2-10-2 is a nice running model and with the small drivers is great for shortlines that have a 24" minimum radius. I recently installed a flat can motor in one of the 2-10-2's and it ran extremely well. Last year I sold a 2-10-10-2 for a customer and as the case for many articulated locomotives that have not been run for a while or at all it did not run well. > Denny > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com > Facebook: CWRailman > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" greenbrier614@ wrote: > > > > I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 > > > > Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. > > > > Nelson > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20558	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

Rick, The 2-10-10-2 I sold as part of an estate sale in May closed at $712 without original box or the belt buckle.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 11/13/2012 12:00 PM, Nelson wrote: > > I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 > > > > Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are > > powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. > > Yep, I bought one of those new back when Westside released them. > I've always had a preference for unusual engines - cab forwards, > Climaxes, Shays, Heislers, the GN 2-6-8-0 and 2-8-8-0 articulateds, > decapods. I have very few of the common wheel arrangements in my batch > of engines - a few consolidations are the most normal wheel arrangements > I own. > The 2-10-10-2 is a nice runner, very smooth, and watching all of > those wheels turn is a dream. It also came with a belt buckle, which I > don't see any mention of it in the eBay listing. At least I can keep > watch in this listing and get an idea of the current value of mine. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "One cat just leads to another." > - Ernest Hemingway >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20559	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

Deny and all, Thanks for all the info. This one already has 19 bids and sits at $710 with 5 days still to go. There's clearly a lot of interest. The prototype looks like a fantasy kitbash made from two 2-10-2's, not a prototype failure that was split into Santa Fe types. I see from the Wiki entry that those are just external steam pipes and not a hinging arrangement. That slopeback tender puts me in mind of a Garratt, tho. A Google search turned up two custom painted units at Brass Trains, and both still have the belt buckle. If you open the thumbnails in a new tab you'll get hi-res versions of the pictures. That site is great (and probably a little dangerous) for window shopping. http://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/036947/HO-Brass-WMC-Westside-ATSF-Santa-Fe-2-10-10-2-3000-CUSTOM http://www.brasstrains.com/classicbrass/Product/Detail/037972/HO-Brass-WMC-Westside-ATSF-Santa-Fe-2-10-10-2-3001-CUSTOM-by-Hal-Maynard Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Rick, > > The 2-10-10-2 I sold as part of an estate sale in May closed at $712 > without original box or the belt buckle. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20560	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

Is this the engine being discussed? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mallett-Compound-Engine-Winslow-AZ.jpg --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@...> wrote: > > > Here's a pic of the 2-10-2, although it may not be a Westside - there's no original box. > > http://prr8157.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5kxo0c > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> > To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 3:18 pm > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2 > > > > > > Nelson, > Yes, Westside did that model about the same time they did the 2-10-2 that was made from splitting the 2-10-10-2's. As 2-10-10-2's they were not very successful and did not last in that configuration for very long. As 2-10-2 they lasted much longer. The model does not run well and does require large radius. The 2-10-2 is a nice running model and with the small drivers is great for shortlines that have a 24" minimum radius. I recently installed a flat can motor in one of the 2-10-2's and it ran extremely well. Last year I sold a 2-10-10-2 for a customer and as the case for many articulated locomotives that have not been run for a while or at all it did not run well. > Denny > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com > Facebook: CWRailman > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I didn't know anyone had ever tackled this prototype. > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westside-HO-Japan-Brass-Santa-Fe-ATSF-2-10-10-2-3000-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box-/200846582316 > > > > Didn't this beastie have a hinged boiler? Both sets of drivers are powered, and the rear set looks fixed -- imagine the minimum radius. > > > > Nelson > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20561	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed

I might have one. I'll have to look.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard <rh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed   Hi to all, I am currently restoring a very old MDC Atlantic and it is missing the trailing truck. Perhaps someone on this group has a spare one that I can purchase. If so, would you kindly email me off list. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20562	From: Nelson	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

That's it. Strange it isn't linked to the Wikipedia entry for the 2-10-10-2. The only picture there is pretty small. Some other interesting photos: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/2-10-10-2/atsf3000.jpg http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/WINRR/wrsfd8.htm Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Is this the engine being discussed? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mallett-Compound-Engine-Winslow-AZ.jpg > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dipping <richarddipping@> wrote: > > > > > > Here's a pic of the 2-10-2, although it may not be a Westside - there's no original box. > > > > http://prr8157.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5kxo0c > > > > Richard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20563	From: willard seehorn	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: PFM box

I have an (empty) box for a PFM LTM (Locomotive\Tender Module) unit "to equip one Steam Locomotive for Sound and Constant Intensity Lighting" Again, the box is empty. If anyone wants it they can have it for postage, otherwise it gets recycled. Can  be picked up in the Raleigh, NC area Will Seehorn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20564	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Revell powered & dummy ets

Attachments : IMG_8612.JPG IMG_8611.JPG IMG_8610.JPG IMG_8608.JPG While these engines can't match the beauty and price of a brass 2-10-10-2 they still are a part of vintage HO history. The are the only Revell F-7 Powered A, Dummy B sets sold to the public. I have only one book that list Revell items with limited info and the last picture will show you the numbers they were sold at. These were sold as sets The Santa Fe also was sold having the Set number 7068. I can't find the B&O set number. First picture shows the side view of both sets. The second picture shows the under side of the powered units. You will see the difference in drives ( Santa Fe at top ). It has one powered truck (back) with traction tire. Front truck is a dummy. Bottom one is the B&O which has both trucks powered by drive shaft making it 8 wheel drive . Last picture are the dummy unit. They had planned to make a set like these using the Santa Fe freight colors but it is believed only one set made ( Promo ). I think the Santa Fe set was made first and the B&O set later by the drives. Anyone having different info, I hope they will share it. Sorry the 2nd & 3rd pictures are blurry. Shaking hands. I didn't see till I entered them into the program. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20565	From: Rick Jones	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Brass Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

On 11/14/2012 12:51 AM, Nelson wrote: > Deny and all, > > Thanks for all the info. This one already has 19 bids and sits at > $710 with 5 days still to go. There's clearly a lot of interest. The > prototype looks like a fantasy kitbash made from two 2-10-2's, not a > prototype failure that was split into Santa Fe types. I see from the > Wiki entry that those are just external steam pipes and not a hinging > arrangement. That slopeback tender puts me in mind of a Garratt, > tho. > > A Google search turned up two custom painted units at Brass Trains, > and both still have the belt buckle. If you open the thumbnails in a > new tab you'll get hi-res versions of the pictures. That site is > great (and probably a little dangerous) for window shopping. > > http://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/036947/HO-Brass-WMC-Westside-ATSF-Santa-Fe-2-10-10-2-3000-CUSTOM > > > http://www.brasstrains.com/classicbrass/Product/Detail/037972/HO-Brass-WMC-Westside-ATSF-Santa-Fe-2-10-10-2-3001-CUSTOM-by-Hal-Maynard And sold for $1100 and $1050 respectively. :-{o -- > Rick Jones It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20566	From: william witte	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

The Revell B&O & Santa Fe Passenger F7 dummies both first appeared in the Revell 1959-60 catalog. The B&O dummy was part of set T-7067.   It appears that someone swap shells on your Santa Fe Passenger F7 powered unit.  The frame is from a Santa Fe freight unit (T3500) with Dyna-Glide drive which was last cataloged in the 1957-58 catalog. The Santa Fe Passenger F7 was first cataloged in the 1958-59 catalog.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20567	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets [4 Attachments]

I recently bought a Dale Earnhardt set that included a die cast F7A, 10 flat cars and a die cast caboose. This is an HO scale set. I've been trying to find a powered F7 that I can swap with the unpowered unit. Nothing fits that I don't have to modify either the shell or the frame, which I don't want to do. I emailed Revell to see if I could get a catalog so I would know if there are many add on sets. I got a very nasty email back stating that they do not have a catalog and could not tell me what sets were available! Nice people there.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Revell powered & dummy ets [4 Attachments]   While these engines can't match the beauty and price of a brass 2-10-10-2 they still are a part of vintage HO history. The are the only Revell F-7 Powered A, Dummy B sets sold to the public. I have only one book that list Revell items with limited info and the last picture will show you the numbers they were sold at. These were sold as sets The Santa Fe also was sold having the Set number 7068. I can't find the B&O set number. First picture shows the side view of both sets. The second picture shows the under side of the powered units. You will see the difference in drives ( Santa Fe at top ). It has one powered truck (back) with traction tire. Front truck is a dummy. Bottom one is the B&O which has both trucks powered by drive shaft making it 8 wheel drive . Last picture are the dummy unit. They had planned to make a set like these using the Santa Fe freight colors but it is believed only one set made ( Promo ). I think the Santa Fe set was made first and the B&O set later by the drives. Anyone having different info, I hope they will share it. Sorry the 2nd & 3rd pictures are blurry. Shaking hands. I didn't see till I entered them into the program. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20568	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

William,       Thanks for the info which I will include in the paperwork I have.  My info is entitled   Revell Number List  compiled by :  M J Hogan   Railroad Design Specialist   1921 W Estes   Chicago, IL 60626. No date when published.       I guess I have the Revell Santa Fe  freight T-3510.  It has 8 wheel drive  ( with drive shaft ). This would be the one that Revell made a Promo set with the Dummy possibly to sold to the public 61-62. Only 1 know as of this writing.  Since these 56-62 era bodies are very easily switched I guess some things show up that shouldn't. How ever with the engines/ bodies I have I could make a dummy for the Santa Fe set freight and create that odd promo set. I also have all the Revell F-7's from that era.                                                                     Jim H On 11/14/2012 9:41 PM, William Witte wrote:   The Revell B&O & Santa Fe Passenger F7 dummies both first appeared in the Revell 1959-60 catalog. The B&O dummy was part of set T-7067.   It appears that someone swap shells on your Santa Fe Passenger F7 powered unit.  The frame is from a Santa Fe freight unit (T3500) with Dyna-Glide drive which was last cataloged in the 1957-58 catalog. The Santa Fe Passenger F7 was first cataloged in the 1958-59 catalog.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20569	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

While I don't know anything about today's Revell sets I know there are different owners today and items probably made in China. Seems odd things like bodies to different frame can't be switched. Glad I don't have to deal with those people.      Jim H On 11/14/2012 11:52 PM, My-Yahoo-Groups wrote:   I recently bought a Dale Earnhardt set that included a die cast F7A, 10 flat cars and a die cast caboose. This is an HO scale set. I've been trying to find a powered F7 that I can swap with the unpowered unit. Nothing fits that I don't have to modify either the shell or the frame, which I don't want to do. I emailed Revell to see if I could get a catalog so I would know if there are many add on sets. I got a very nasty email back stating that they do not have a catalog and could not tell me what sets were available! Nice people there.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Revell powered & dummy ets [4 Attachments]   While these engines can't match the beauty and price of a brass 2-10-10-2 they still are a part of vintage HO history. The are the only Revell F-7 Powered A, Dummy B sets sold to the public. I have only one book that list Revell items with limited info and the last picture will show you the numbers they were sold at. These were sold as sets The Santa Fe also was sold having the Set number 7068. I can't find the B&O set number. First picture shows the side view of both sets. The second picture shows the under side of the powered units. You will see the difference in drives ( Santa Fe at top ). It has one powered truck (back) with traction tire. Front truck is a dummy. Bottom one is the B&O which has both trucks powered by drive shaft making it 8 wheel drive . Last picture are the dummy unit. They had planned to make a set like these using the Santa Fe freight colors but it is believed only one set made ( Promo ). I think the Santa Fe set was made first and the B&O set later by the drives. Anyone having different info, I hope they will share it. Sorry the 2nd & 3rd pictures are blurry. Shaking hands. I didn't see till I entered them into the program. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20570	From: Richard	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed

Sean, thank you but I found one in my junk box that works. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I might have one. I'll have to look. >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Richard <rh@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:12 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] MDC 4-4-2 Trailing Truck Needed > > >   > Hi to all, > I am currently restoring a very old MDC Atlantic and it is missing the trailing truck. Perhaps someone on this group has a spare one that I can purchase. If so, would you kindly email me off list. Thanks. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20571	From: Nelson	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

Jim, The 8 wheel drive version looks very close to the late Varney chassis I have. Were the companies all just copying each other back then, or were they doing business with the same Japanese manufacturer? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > While these engines can't match the beauty and price of a brass > 2-10-10-2 they still are a part of vintage HO history. The are the only > Revell F-7 Powered A, Dummy B sets sold to the public. I have only one > book that list Revell items with limited info and the last picture will > show you the numbers they were sold at. These were sold as sets The > Santa Fe also was sold having the Set number 7068. I can't find the B&O > set number. > > First picture shows the side view of both sets. The second > picture shows the under side of the powered units. You will see the > difference in drives ( Santa Fe at top ). It has one powered truck > (back) with traction tire. Front truck is a dummy. Bottom one is the > B&O which has both trucks powered by drive shaft making it 8 wheel drive > . Last picture are the dummy unit. They had planned to make a set like > these using the Santa Fe freight colors but it is believed only one set > made ( Promo ). > > I think the Santa Fe set was made first and the B&O set later by > the drives. Anyone having different info, I hope they will share it. > Sorry the 2nd & 3rd pictures are blurry. Shaking hands. I didn't see > till I entered them into the program. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20572	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

The HO manufacturers made and designed their own drives.  Many were similar, some had O-rings, etc and looked like they were copied from the old Walthers power truck.  Back then, they were all made in the US, not Japan.  Penn Line had what was a very good drive for the time.  Of course, Hobbytown was in a class by itself.  Then came the Mantua diesel truck, which outperformed all of them except Hobbytown.  Revell tried, but never had a very good drive.  Yes, it looked like a Varney drive.  Revell tried a centrifugal clutch to smooth things out, but dropped that quite soon.  Someone made a Hydraulic clutch, but it leaked. (What a surprise!)  Then Athearn designed their gear drive.  The early version did not have flywheels, but was still GREAT.  Then came the flywheels and the rest is history.  The most durable was the Mantua truck and the expensive Hobbytown.  Hobbytown ran one of their locomotives in their window, in Boston, 24/7 to try to wear it out.  It ran for years. Our local hobby shop did the same with a Mantua diesel, with the same result.  It wouldn't wear out.   The other drives at the time were not much to talk about.  English had a power truck for their FM road switcher and Hobbyline had an inferior drive.  Gilbert was like a meat grinder and so was Lionel after they quit using the Athearn rubber band drive.  Most had jack rabbit starts, which was the reason for the Revell clutch. At least Revell tried.  Many were sort of copies of the Varney and Walthers drive.   I have studied diesel drives of old.  A very interesting subject.   Brad   In a message dated 11/15/2012 11:35:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, greenbrier614@... writes:   Jim, The 8 wheel drive version looks very close to the late Varney chassis I have. Were the companies all just copying each other back then, or were they doing business with the same Japanese manufacturer? Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20573	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

Varney had three at least different F3 drives over the years. For the diecast era they had a cheapy that had open bottomed trucks and a DC60 motor. I have no experience with that drive. At the same time they had a much better quality, fully enclosed  design (2060-K version) that used a DC71 motor. These brutes ran well and lasted forever. And you didn’t need a sound system as they made plenty all by themselves. At least the metal spur gear drive versions did. They also made a spring belt drive version of the same drive which I also never had any experience with. I believe the spur gear came first as the AB (my brothers) set I have was very early production. With eight wheel drive these beasties were powerful alright.   Later, I think when they switched to the plastic shells they had a new gear drive power truck. It also featured a fully enclosed gear box and spur gears made out of plastic. I don’t know what motor they used but eight wheel drive versions had a plastic drive shaft. All Varney eight wheel drives that I’ve seen had universal jointed drive shafts, no rubber tubes. When I look at those early F3’s I gotta wonder which was the best in the long run, Varney or Hobbytown. I do know Hobbytown took more work if you were to do it right. And their earlier versions with the rubber tubing for universals and plastic wheels never impressed me all that much. Yes they were still good runners and powerful but when I recently went looking to buy a couple I watched for the universal jointed drive shafts and all brass wheel sets. I did get one that had the newer drive shafts with the plastic wheels (probably updated by a previous owner) but the price was right. I’ll have to see what I can get from NWSL to replace those plastic wheels.   The early Mantua diesel drive was a good runner and durable but one had to settle for that long wheelbase. I have a couple of their latest, eight wheel power diesel drives, one with a flywheel (their last drive) and one without. I got all these drives to put under some diecast sharks. When I get one of them “round to its” that is.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of corlissbs@... Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:54 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Revell powered & dummy ets     The HO manufacturers made and designed their own drives.  Many were similar, some had O-rings, etc and looked like they were copied from the old Walthers power truck.  Back then, they were all made in the US, not Japan.  Penn Line had what was a very good drive for the time.  Of course, Hobbytown was in a class by itself.  Then came the Mantua diesel truck, which outperformed all of them except Hobbytown.  Revell tried, but never had a very good drive.  Yes, it looked like a Varney drive.  Revell tried a centrifugal clutch to smooth things out, but dropped that quite soon.  Someone made a Hydraulic clutch, but it leaked. (What a surprise!)  Then Athearn designed their gear drive.  The early version did not have flywheels, but was still GREAT.  Then came the flywheels and the rest is history.  The most durable was the Mantua truck and the expensive Hobbytown.  Hobbytown ran one of their locomotives in their window, in Boston, 24/7 to try to wear it out.  It ran for years. Our local hobby shop did the same with a Mantua diesel, with the same result.  It wouldn't wear out.   The other drives at the time were not much to talk about.  English had a power truck for their FM road switcher and Hobbyline had an inferior drive.  Gilbert was like a meat grinder and so was Lionel after they quit using the Athearn rubber band drive.  Most had jack rabbit starts, which was the reason for the Revell clutch. At least Revell tried.  Many were sort of copies of the Varney and Walthers drive.   I have studied diesel drives of old.  A very interesting subject.   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20574	From: Don Grant	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Revell powered & dummy ets

I think your metal F7A was produced by Model Power.  If you cannot find one, my LHS has one. Best, Don Grant From: My-Yahoo-Groups <yahoo-groups@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Revell powered & dummy ets I recently bought a Dale Earnhardt set that included a die cast F7A, 10 flat cars and a die cast caboose. This is an HO scale set. I've been trying to find a powered F7 that I can swap with the unpowered unit. Nothing fits that I don't have to modify either the shell or the frame, which I don't want to do. I emailed Revell to see if I could get a catalog so I would know if there are many add on sets. I got a very nasty email back stating that they do not have a catalog and could not tell me what sets were available! Nice people there.   Steve W. http://www.prrh.org -- Phillipsburg Railroad Historians http://www.marx-trains.com -- Marx HO web http://nasme.tripod.com -- Nazareth Area Society Of Model Engineers ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Revell powered & dummy ets [4 Attachments]   While these engines can't match the beauty and price of a brass 2-10-10-2 they still are a part of vintage HO history. The are the only Revell F-7 Powered A, Dummy B sets sold to the public. I have only one book that list Revell items with limited info and the last picture will show you the numbers they were sold at. These were sold as sets The Santa Fe also was sold having the Set number 7068. I can't find the B&O set number. First picture shows the side view of both sets. The second picture shows the under side of the powered units. You will see the difference in drives ( Santa Fe at top ). It has one powered truck (back) with traction tire. Front truck is a dummy. Bottom one is the B&O which has both trucks powered by drive shaft making it 8 wheel drive . Last picture are the dummy unit. They had planned to make a set like these using the Santa Fe freight colors but it is believed only one set made ( Promo ). I think the Santa Fe set was made first and the B&O set later by the drives. Anyone having different info, I hope they will share it. Sorry the 2nd & 3rd pictures are blurry. Shaking hands. I didn't see till I entered them into the program. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20575	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

Attachments : cab forward General.jpg Hey guys. I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20576	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

I did read in the mag that it was called the "monkey box" and it was engineered by a W.C. Filkins. The pic was taken in Grand Rapids Mich.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:06 PM, "lnnrr" <lnnrr@...> wrote:   I seem to recall that picture having also appeared in Railroad Magazine where it was called an inspection locomotive. Nowadays such inspections seem to be done from cars with a glass rear window and theater seating. Having seen pictures of other inspection locomotives, evidently it was usual in earlier days to inspect from the front. Perhaps some V.P. caught a bull in his lap, a fashion changing event, being that V.P.s more often hand out the bull than receive it. Chuck Peck --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey guys. > > > I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model. >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20577	From: Larry	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment]

Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com" <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; "vintage HO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below] Hey guys. I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor 1 of 1 Photo(s) cab forward General.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20578	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment]

Of course, I don't think this is really a "cab forward" but rather an "inspection locomotive".  And a pretty classy looking piece of workmanship at that.  Beautiful curved windows.   Google "inspection locomotive" and you will easily get some photos and sites with more photos.  The thing is, the things typically seem to have had a full length body so they are more likea steam locomotive stuck inside of a passenger car.   It looks like the cab shows C&WM and there was a Chicago & West Michigan that did go through Grand Rapids 1881-1899 that wound up part of Pere Marquette per the below link.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_and_West_Michigan_Railway   This comes under the Pere Marquette historical society it seems and they show No. 130 as a 4-4-0, Manchester, 1900 1920 Ex-C&WM (the dates being when first and last on the Pere Marquette roster) in the steam roster at:   http://www.pmhistsoc.org/stmrostr.shtml   If the above is really that same locomotive, the historical society may have somebody that knows more about it.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment]   Hey guys. I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20579	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

I found maybe another lead on this sort of thing.   There had been an ebay listing for a  "Railroad Magazine", Oct, 1943 with an article on cabs.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Railroad-Magazine-Oct-1943-Cabs-Origin-Development-Youngstown-Ohio-/221144861122   The listing mentions among other things "...Chicago & West Michigan; Haskell inspection cab;..."  (I don't think the two mentions are necessarily tied together, just in the same list).  Maybe it had the same photo as in MR or something.  And may the "Haskell inspection cab" is something else.   Anybody have that issue to check for more info? Apparantly it was a pretty long article by a George Hart on pages 10-35.    Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?   Of course, I don't think this is really a "cab forward" but rather an "inspection locomotive".  And a pretty classy looking piece of workmanship at that.  Beautiful curved windows.   Google "inspection locomotive" and you will easily get some photos and sites with more photos.  The thing is, the things typically seem to have had a full length body so they are more likea steam locomotive stuck inside of a passenger car.   It looks like the cab shows C&WM and there was a Chicago & West Michigan that did go through Grand Rapids 1881-1899 that wound up part of Pere Marquette per the below link.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_and_West_Michigan_Railway   This comes under the Pere Marquette historical society it seems and they show No. 130 as a 4-4-0, Manchester, 1900 1920 Ex-C&WM (the dates being when first and last on the Pere Marquette roster) in the steam roster at:   http://www.pmhistsoc.org/stmrostr.shtml   If the above is really that same locomotive, the historical society may have somebody that knows more about it.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintage HO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:51 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? [1 Attachment]   Hey guys. I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20580	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20581	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

Thanks for the motivation! I found a copy to buy and will have it in some days. I have another RR issue that has a great article on Inspection Locomotives. I'll see if I can find it. I have a couple of ideas where I put it. Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:09 PM, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > > I found maybe another lead on this sort of thing. > > There had been an ebay listing for a "Railroad Magazine", Oct, 1943 with an article on cabs. > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Railroad-Magazine-Oct-1943-Cabs-Origin-Development-Youngstown-Ohio-/221144861122 > > The listing mentions among other things "...Chicago & West Michigan; Haskell inspection cab;..." (I don't think the two mentions are necessarily tied together, just in the same list). Maybe it had the same photo as in MR or something. And may the "Haskell inspection cab" is something else. > > Anybody have that issue to check for more info? Apparantly it was a pretty long article by a George Hart on pages 10-35. > > Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20582	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

I'm right there with you Mike! I have a small stockpile of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's already that I plan to someday combine with some diecast Seeley short passenger car shells that if combined would make great little inspection locomotives.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 7:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20583	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Building a steam locomotive

If you have 17 minutes to watch this video, it's fascinating. A film made in 1935 showing the processes of steam locomotive building, from steel fabrication to casting, forging, machining, and assembly. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YblqWGmIYTg> And how times have changed. Check out about three minutes in, the crew of men pouring molten iron from a huge crucible. NO goggles, leather aprons, gloves, or anything. Even in those non-OSHA days that seems insane.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20584	From: trolleynut	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: StromBecker Instructions

Just added a file with the original StromBecker instruction sheet for box cars and reefers. Sorry about the stain. Jack Priller Hobbs, NM

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20585	From: Riverboy	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv

I thought of this conversation when I happened to come across this auction for an inspection locomotive. It looks like a nice piece.    http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ARISTO-CRAFT-4-2-2-STEAM-INSPECTION-ENGINE-WITH-TENDER-DIE-CAST-RTR-/140884260264?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cd5b35a8   In case the link doesn't work, it is item #140884260264   Tod (Ohio) --- On Fri, 11/16/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 16, 2012, 7:02 AM I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20586	From: John Webster	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

I read the whole listing of that RR magazine. Much to my surprise there was a mention of Brooks' Coffee Bar on Woodward Avenue north of Detroit. About 1954 our teacher took us there. There was a large cast concrete locomotive out front and you sat at a curved bar inside. Your food was delivered on a flat car hauled by a Lionel steam loco that ran on a track on the bar. After dinner a dump truck ran along an adjoining roadway to deliver the check, pick up the payment and return the change.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20587	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv

Tod     I know this won't sit right with people but I wish members would not talk about an auction that hasn't gone off yet. It hurts people who are looking at the auction and most likely will drive the price up. Over the years I have always shared much information to this group to benefit ALL.   Everyone has the right to feel their way about what they do.  This is MY opinion and might not be how others feel.                                           Jim H On 11/16/2012 8:13 PM, Riverboy wrote: I thought of this conversation when I happened to come across this auction for an inspection locomotive. It looks like a nice piece.    http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ARISTO-CRAFT-4-2-2-STEAM-INSPECTION-ENGINE-WITH-TENDER-DIE-CAST-RTR-/140884260264?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cd5b35a8   In case the link doesn't work, it is item #140884260264   Tod (Ohio) --- On Fri, 11/16/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 16, 2012, 7:02 AM I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20588	From: Riverboy	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv

Hi Jim.    I never thought of it that way, but you might be right. I only mentioned it because it was related to the topic. From now on, I'll wait to post a link until an auction is complete.   Tod (Ohio)    --- On Sat, 11/17/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotive. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 9:28 AM       Tod     I know this won't sit right with people but I wish members would not talk about an auction that hasn't gone off yet. It hurts people who are looking at the auction and most likely will drive the price up. Over the years I have always shared much information to this group to benefit ALL.   Everyone has the right to feel their way about what they do.  This is MY opinion and might not be how others feel.                                           Jim H On 11/16/2012 8:13 PM, Riverboy wrote: I thought of this conversation when I happened to come across this auction for an inspection locomotive. It looks like a nice piece.    http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ARISTO-CRAFT-4-2-2-STEAM-INSPECTION-ENGINE-WITH-TENDER-DIE-CAST-RTR-/140884260264?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cd5b35a8   In case the link doesn't work, it is item #140884260264   Tod (Ohio) --- On Fri, 11/16/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 16, 2012, 7:02 AM I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20589	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv

Hi Tod, I't's OK Tod. I was watching it too, but not to bid...this time. I do share Jim Heckard's opinion.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotive. Hi Jim.    I never thought of it that way, but you might be right. I only mentioned it because it was related to the topic. From now on, I'll wait to post a link until an auction is complete.   Tod (Ohio)    --- On Sat, 11/17/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotive. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 9:28 AM       Tod     I know this won't sit right with people but I wish members would not talk about an auction that hasn't gone off yet. It hurts people who are looking at the auction and most likely will drive the price up. Over the years I have always shared much information to this group to benefit ALL.   Everyone has the right to feel their way about what they do.  This is MY opinion and might not be how others feel.                                           Jim H On 11/16/2012 8:13 PM, Riverboy wrote: I thought of this conversation when I happened to come across this auction for an inspection locomotive. It looks like a nice piece.    http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ARISTO-CRAFT-4-2-2-STEAM-INSPECTION-ENGINE-WITH-TENDER-DIE-CAST-RTR-/140884260264?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cd5b35a8   In case the link doesn't work, it is item #140884260264   Tod (Ohio) --- On Fri, 11/16/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 16, 2012, 7:02 AM I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20590	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?

That's cool!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John Webster <midpoint37@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General?   I read the whole listing of that RR magazine. Much to my surprise there was a mention of Brooks' Coffee Bar on Woodward Avenue north of Detroit. About 1954 our teacher took us there. There was a large cast concrete locomotive out front and you sat at a curved bar inside. Your food was delivered on a flat car hauled by a Lionel steam loco that ran on a track on the bar. After dinner a dump truck ran along an adjoining roadway to deliver the check, pick up the payment and return the change.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20591	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotiv

Attachments : I do not post about on-going auctions unless there is something really of the wall, such as that cast bronze 2-10-2 that had such a out of sight asking price. I doubt that caused any bidding wars.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Riverboy Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 8:39 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotive.   Hi Jim.    I never thought of it that way, but you might be right. I only mentioned it because it was related to the topic. From now on, I'll wait to post a link until an auction is complete.   Tod (Ohio)    --- On Sat, 11/17/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? Inspection Locomotive. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 9:28 AM       Tod     I know this won't sit right with people but I wish members would not talk about an auction that hasn't gone off yet. It hurts people who are looking at the auction and most likely will drive the price up. Over the years I have always shared much information to this group to benefit ALL.   Everyone has the right to feel their way about what they do.  This is MY opinion and might not be how others feel.                                           Jim H On 11/16/2012 8:13 PM, Riverboy wrote: I thought of this conversation when I happened to come across this auction for an inspection locomotive. It looks like a nice piece.    http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ARISTO-CRAFT-4-2-2-STEAM-INSPECTION-ENGINE-WITH-TENDER-DIE-CAST-RTR-/140884260264?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cd5b35a8   In case the link doesn't work, it is item #140884260264   Tod (Ohio) --- On Fri, 11/16/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Has anyone ever seen a cab forward General? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 16, 2012, 7:02 AM I think you guys will like this somewhat similar inspection locomotive. Here is what happens when you take the same idea to an extreme. I makes me want to get a number of the AHM/IHC 4-4-0's to make some of these. [ there is another version of this same design, but slightly different from the same RR, this is the somewhat less fancy version, you should see the fancy one.... ] Mike Bauers On Nov 15, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Larry wrote: Sean, I have no knowledge of this particular locomotive, but have seen photographs of later NYC seam locos with a similar forward arrangement noted as "Inspection" locomotives inscribed on side panels. It seems to me that these were early efforts at rail inspection with enclosed compartments although I have no additional information to support that. Larry Miller III From: Sean Naylor  [Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]  Hey guys.  I purchased a July 1956 MR for the 0-4-0 booster Industrial tank loco article and I discovered this picture while going through it and was wondering if anyone has ever heard of this loco and knows anything about it. It looks pretty cool to model.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20592	From: Matt Martin	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: WTB: Atlas Classic GP7 Rock Island Blue

Hey all--I'm looking for the Atlas Classic Rock Island GP7's in "Bankruptcy Blue" paint scheme. They are as follows: http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hogp72.htm Part #: 8643 Engine #:4434 Part #: 8644 Engine #:4446 Please contact me offlist at bnsf5264@... Thanks! Matt Martin Phoenix

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20593	From: RalphB	Date: 11/19/2012
Subject: Re: A true road "switcher" (was WTB: Atlas Classic GP7....)

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Matt Martin <bnsf5264@...> wrote: > > Hey all--I'm looking for the Atlas Classic Rock Island GP7's in "Bankruptcy Blue" paint scheme. They are as follows: > > http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hogp72.htm > ------------------------ Clicked on the link and the featured loco is a GP-7 decorated for the NC&StL, but something didn't look right. Then I realized what it was. The Dixie Line took its first GP-7s (700-705) on AAR Type A switcher trucks. Here's a photo of one: http://ncstl.com/equipment/diesel/703.htm Most of today's production has parts that are almost unit-specific, but I wonder if you could put old Athearn Blue Box switcher trucks under one of that company's GP-7s. My stuff is packed away right now, or I'd give it a try. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20594	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Diecast tender

Can anyone identify this tender?http://www.ebay.com/itm/121019742455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20595	From: Mary Long	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender

MDC early on , all die cast .  Henry H. --- On Tue, 11/20/12, lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: From: lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Diecast tender To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 4:30 PM   Can anyone identify this tender?http://www.ebay.com/itm/121019742455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20596	From: John Hagen	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender

Right Henry.   It’s a MDC 4-4-2 tender. Check link below;   http://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionMdc/roundhouse442atlanticinstrpg1.jpg   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Long Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:02 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Diecast tender     MDC early on , all die cast .  Henry H. --- On Tue, 11/20/12, lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: From: lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Diecast tender To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 4:30 PM   Can anyone identify this tender?http://www.ebay.com/itm/121019742455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20597	From: Glenn	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender

yes—MDC from AT&SF 4-4-0, then 2-6-2, and possibly other locos.  I have those two in my display case.    glenn Joesten   From: Mary Long Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:01 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Diecast tender   MDC early on , all die cast .  Henry H. --- On Tue, 11/20/12, lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: From: lewis.ted16 <lewis.ted16@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Diecast tender To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 4:30 PM   Can anyone identify this tender?http://www.ebay.com/itm/121019742455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20598	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Diecast tender

Thanks to all...it could replace my John English 4-6-2 tender with bad zinc rot. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Can anyone identify this tender?http://www.ebay.com/itm/121019742455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20599	From: Alan	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: removing soft metal

I'm wondering what others use for cutting soft metals,specifically I am making a usra heavy mike with mantua pacific boiler and I need to remove running boards,air tanks,etc. from boiler,the dremel cutting disc seems to clog and stops cutting.Is there a better cutting tool to use in dremel for this type metal,or should I grind it off. Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20600	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: removing soft metal

I would use the cutoff disk to notch the running boards, then snip most of the boards away. Think of milling the bulk of the metal details away with the steel burrs that Dremel has. Use grinding bits only for a final finishing. The metal will eat up any grinding wheels of any size. I would finish with various grades of wet-dry Emory papers after a bit of touch up light filing after the power 'milling'. You will prefer to use the available safety shield that most Dremels have to put between the bit and the power tool. Find a way to clamp the boiler in a vise or other secure hold-down. You certainly do not want to hold the job by hand while you carve away at it with a power tool. A hold down as basic as a board used to hold the work to a bench top as you hold that 'clamp' down with one hand and 'mill' with the other hand will work well enough. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Nov 21, 2012, at 8:19 PM, "Alan" <albyrno@...> wrote: > I'm wondering what others use for cutting soft metals,specifically I am making a usra heavy mike with mantua pacific boiler and I need to remove running boards,air tanks,etc. from boiler,the dremel cutting disc seems to clog and stops cutting.Is there a better cutting tool to use in dremel for this type metal,or should I grind it off. > Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20601	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/23/2012
Subject: Re: removing soft metal

Mantua castings are made out of some tough stuff compared to other cast metal manufacturers.  I did a BIG 6 and removed almost all of the appliances.  I only removed part of the running board for the WABCO air pump location and made a step over from 1/32" brass sheet.  I did remove the tanks and one of the domes as well as all of the detail, including the headlight.  The pacific would require the use of the same techniques, but would take more time and just be more work.  I used a variety of different tools where appropriate.  I did use the Dremel cutoff wheel quite a bit and probably went through three or four of em.  I only used the Dremel cutoff to take off the large pieces and did not get close to the boiler or boiler bands.  I also judiciously used a grinder in the Dremel to get closer to the boiler after the big stuff was removed.  For some parts, I saw it was pretty effective to use a jewelers saw or a small hack saw.  Once I got pretty close to the base boiler, I then used several home made chisels to carefully remove the remainder of the metal to the point where a file could be used for touch up to get a nice boiler base.  The chisels are easily made by grinding pieces of steel, like a ten penny nail and maybe some 3/16" to 3/8" rod.  You can grind some pretty decent chisels ranging in width from about 1/8" up to about 1/4"  Anything bigger would be a bit much.  With just those sizes of steel and a ten penny nail you can make a good variety of chisels.  If you feel the need to harden them, there are places on the web that describe drill rod hardening, the same techniques would be used.  I did not find it necessary and just use the grinder or a file to touch up and sharpen the cutting edges. You can use a small hammer on the chisels and in some cases, just push the chisel by hand.  It would be useful to put a handle on the end kind of like a file handle, only smaller.  I also used some arge plastic wire nuts (wire connectors). For the tanks, I used the Dremel cutoff tool and went vertically and horizontally until I met the two cuts.  The running boards will be tedious and require lots of care.  I suggest that if the prototype running boards are pretty close, leave them.  Cut out only what you need.  If you need to totally remove them, just be careful.  As one of the other posters stated, make sure you have a good way of holding the boiler while you work on it.  I suggest soft wood, like soft pine or white wood sold at home depot.  You can either clamp the boiler between two pieces of wood on a bench or in a vice.  Good luck and show us your work. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: albyrno@... Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 02:19:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] removing soft metal   I'm wondering what others use for cutting soft metals,specifically I am making a usra heavy mike with mantua pacific boiler and I need to remove running boards,air tanks,etc. from boiler,the dremel cutting disc seems to clog and stops cutting.Is there a better cutting tool to use in dremel for this type metal,or should I grind it off. Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20602	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: varney parts needed

I an hunting for an early varney 2-8-0 drive with the v-1 motor. My e-mail is: bill_pittman1@... Thank you Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20603	From: Alan	Date: 11/26/2012
Subject: MANTUA MIKE

I have just added file in photos labeled mantua USRA heavy mike,using pacific boiler with mike mechanism,frame had to be notched to lower rear mount,boiler mount moved forward and cylinder saddle lowered for more prototypical boiler to frame gap.Now I look forward(not)to removing remaining detail from boiler to reposition and install new parts. Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20604	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/26/2012
Subject: Re: MANTUA MIKE

I've done a similar project. I went about mine a bit differently, though, and was overall less work. The newer frame and mechanism with the motor worm connected directly to the axle spur gear will not quite fit the Pacific boiler. The filled in part of the inside of the boiler interferes with the motor placement. However, an earlier Mikado frame, with the flexible drive shaft coupling, will fit the newer Pacific boilers, and the whole thing can be assembled without any real refitting. Everything mounts using the original holes, even. Somewhere I have this locomotive, along with a Bowser 32' tender (The type that is the old Varney tooling, the tender they used with the Casey Jones and Old Lady). Probably buried in one of my closets full of trains. If I see it (I am going through some boxes lately), I'll get a picture. -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 11/26/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] MANTUA MIKE To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 26, 2012, 4:18 PM   I have just added file in photos labeled mantua USRA heavy mike,using pacific boiler with mike mechanism,frame had to be notched to lower rear mount,boiler mount moved forward and cylinder saddle lowered for more prototypical boiler to frame gap.Now I look forward(not)to removing remaining detail from boiler to reposition and install new parts. Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20605	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/26/2012
Subject: Re: MANTUA MIKE

Steve, If you'd like...... I have some of those newer Mikes -and- a Sherline mill. If you'd like, I can make your boiler fit the newer Mike mechs. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Nov 26, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: I've done a similar project. I went about mine a bit differently, though, and was overall less work. The newer frame and mechanism with the motor worm connected directly to the axle spur gear will not quite fit the Pacific boiler. The filled in part of the inside of the boiler interferes with the motor placement.    ......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20606	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 11/27/2012
Subject: Re: MANTUA MIKE

Steve,   Boiler had already had material recessed to accomodate worm when I got it I did have to remove nub on underside of boiler top .The mike mechanism I'm using is part of kit I'm building that had badly pitted/junk boiler,party who gave me the pacific boiler mistakenly thought it was a mike boiler when he shipped to me.I rather prefer the look of wagontop boiler mike though and some of the details had already been removed from it which is why I'm using this one.Thanks for the tip.  Alan From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] MANTUA MIKE   I've done a similar project. I went about mine a bit differently, though, and was overall less work. The newer frame and mechanism with the motor worm connected directly to the axle spur gear will not quite fit the Pacific boiler. The filled in part of the inside of the boiler interferes with the motor placement. However, an earlier Mikado frame, with the flexible drive shaft coupling, will fit the newer Pacific boilers, and the whole thing can be assembled without any real refitting. Everything mounts using the original holes, even. Somewhere I have this locomotive, along with a Bowser 32' tender (The type that is the old Varney tooling, the tender they used with the Casey Jones and Old Lady). Probably buried in one of my closets full of trains. If I see it (I am going through some boxes lately), I'll get a picture. -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 11/26/12, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: From: Alan <albyrno@...> Subject: [vintageHO] MANTUA MIKE To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 26, 2012, 4:18 PM   I have just added file in photos labeled mantua USRA heavy mike,using pacific boiler with mike mechanism,frame had to be notched to lower rear mount,boiler mount moved forward and cylinder saddle lowered for more prototypical boiler to frame gap.Now I look forward(not)to removing remaining detail from boiler to reposition and install new parts. Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20607	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism

Hi, How much are you asking for you cary l-1 boiler and do you still have it avaible? You can contact me at bill_pittman1@... Thank you Bill From: JimW <Watermaj@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism Folks - I have one of these cast metal, not brass,  in the Cary box, did not come with a boiler front, but I am including one. If anyone is interested, let me know, I wanted to give the folks in this group the first look before posting on ebay. Has no additional details. Jim Waterman ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20608	From: cwrailman	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: A RIP Track Rescue

While this is not building of a kit it does deal with a vintage brass locomotive that was imported by PFM back in the late 1950's and early 1960's.  Some of you may have one of these awaiting rework. Check out the latest project to be undertaken by the California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops.  This is the beginning of an on going project to rescue and bring life back to an old brass PFM tender driven V&T prototype Ten Wheeler.  Check out the short video at the end of the presentation which can be accessed by clicking on the last image. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20609	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: LED headlight

Hello to all...I have installed an LED headlight in my J. English 4-6-2. It throws a realistic beam but has a blue color. Can anyone suggest a more realistic colored LED? Thanks. And those of you who have snow already please drive safely. Ted.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20610	From: Glenn	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: LED headlight

Miniatronics gas "golden white" LEDs. gj -----Original Message----- From: lewis.ted16 Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 6:01 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] LED headlight Hello to all...I have installed an LED headlight in my J. English 4-6-2. It throws a realistic beam but has a blue color. Can anyone suggest a more realistic colored LED? Thanks. And those of you who have snow already please drive safely. Ted. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20611	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20612	From: Watermans	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Cary I-1 boiler for Penn Line mechanism

Bill It's sold - thanks for asking. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20613	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Closing collection

On 12/1/2012 4:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > To all members, > > Unless some medical doctors come up with a > cure for Levatore Ani Syndrome or I kick the bucket I won't be doing > to much with vintage trains. My collection will be shared with my two > children at such time I can no longer enjoyed looking at them. NOTHING > IS FOR SALE.. I might pop in on sight once one in a while but > researching items and building new pieces will be out of the > question. Nice knowing everyone. Keep up the good work. > > > Jim H > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20614	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Closing collection

Jim,   I am so sorry to hear this. I understand your decision based upon your discomfort caused by this very painful syndrome and I will most certainly honor your desire concerning your collection.   Sharing your collection with your children is a wonderful thing to do.   Anytime you can “pop in” to the will be appreciated by myself and many, many others. Your collection and the descriptions of your rebuilding of the pieces that make up your collection have been treasured by all.   I wish you the best my friend.   John Hagen   From: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:45 PM To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Closing collection     To all members, Unless some medical doctors come up with a cure for Levatore Ani Syndrome or I kick the bucket I won't be doing to much with vintage trains. My collection will be shared with my two children at such time I can no longer enjoyed looking at them. NOTHING IS FOR SALE.. I might pop in on sight once one in a while but researching items and building new pieces will be out of the question. Nice knowing everyone. Keep up the good work. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20615	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection

Jim, We will pray someone comes up with a cure or an effective treatment. Richard   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:46 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Closing collection     On 12/1/2012 4:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > To all members, > > Unless some medical doctors come up with a > cure for Levatore Ani Syndrome or I kick the bucket I won't be doing > to much with vintage trains. My collection will be shared with my two > children at such time I can no longer enjoyed looking at them. NOTHING > IS FOR SALE.. I might pop in on sight once one in a while but > researching items and building new pieces will be out of the > question. Nice knowing everyone. Keep up the good work. > > > Jim H > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20616	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection

On 12/1/2012 3:46 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > On 12/1/2012 4:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: >> To all members, >> >> Unless some medical doctors come up with a >> cure for Levatore Ani Syndrome or I kick the bucket I won't be doing >> to much with vintage trains. My collection will be shared with my two >> children at such time I can no longer enjoyed looking at them. NOTHING >> IS FOR SALE.. I might pop in on sight once one in a while but >> researching items and building new pieces will be out of the >> question. Nice knowing everyone. Keep up the good work. >> >> >> Jim H >> >> >> That is NOT something I wanted to read. Your contributions here (not to mention your generosity in our private dealings) have made you someone I hope I can proudly call a friend. I hope your kids appreciate what their Dad has and what he's done to make us all richer for having known you. You're in my prayers, may God be with you. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20617	From: tom leen	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection

Dear Jim, Wishing you the best.  You will be greatly missed. Tom Leen --- On Sat, 12/1/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Closing collection To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 9:46 PM   On 12/1/2012 4:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > To all members, > > Unless some medical doctors come up with a > cure for Levatore Ani Syndrome or I kick the bucket I won't be doing > to much with vintage trains. My collection will be shared with my two > children at such time I can no longer enjoyed looking at them. NOTHING > IS FOR SALE.. I might pop in on sight once one in a while but > researching items and building new pieces will be out of the > question. Nice knowing everyone. Keep up the good work. > > > Jim H > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20618	From: Nelson	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: LED headlight

I bought a batch of 100 from this seller a few months back, and was very satisfied. Be sure to request the 470 ohm resistors for 12 volts. http://www.ebay.com/itm/160437958511 They're actually pure white, and not as yellow as in the sample picture, but could easily be tinted for a yellower appearance. I've tried that with blue-white LED's, and the results are pretty ghastly. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "lewis.ted16" <lewis.ted16@...> wrote: > > Hello to all...I have installed an LED headlight in my J. English 4-6-2. It throws a realistic beam but has a blue color. Can anyone suggest a more realistic colored LED? Thanks. And those of you who have snow already please drive safely. Ted. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20619	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection

Hi Jim, With reading your latest post, I was extremely disheartened to see your decision of discontinuing your modeling activities, but I completely understand it. My hopes and prayers go out to you in beating this affliction, and I'm looking forward to that time when you resume your hobby. Your guidance here on restoring models was a great value to many members, and you've been an inspiration to all. I've filed every one of your projects as I've enjoyed all the steps you've taken us through in completing them. I know your messages will be missed; please drop back here as often as you can. Best of luck in the future, my friend -- you won't be far from our thoughts. Ray Wetzel (Ray F.W.)</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20620	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Re: Closing collection

Jim, I readily identify with your decision, though we will all miss your efforts and expertise.  I have experienced a medical calamity that makes any moseling mostly too difficult to do.  Be greater blessed as you fight this malady and try to go on living. Don Staton in VA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 12/2/2012 6:19 AM, erieberk@... wrote:   Hi Jim, With reading your latest post, I was extremely disheartened to see your decision of discontinuing your modeling activities, but I completely understand it. My hopes and prayers go out to you in beating this affliction, and I'm looking forward to that time when you resume your hobby. Your guidance here on restoring models was a great value to many members, and you've been an inspiration to all. I've filed every one of your projects as I've enjoyed all the steps you've taken us through in completing them. I know your messages will be missed; please drop back here as often as you can. Best of luck in the future, my friend -- you won't be far from our thoughts. Ray Wetzel (Ray F.W.)</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20621	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Closing Collection

Jim, I was greatly saddened to read your latest missive.   I know I seldom post here, but I certainly have enjoyed reading your stuff and will miss you.   Your situation makes my problems with bad knees and arthritis(which keep me from doing much more than doing my etching work and bringing in coal and kero to keep warm) now seem less than they did.   God be with you and we won't forget you!   regards,   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20622	From: Matt Martin	Date: 12/3/2012
Subject: WTB: Walthers and Intermountain Southdown Inc hoppers

Hey all--I am currently looking for any numbers of the following two hopper types both Southdown Inc. cars made by Intermountain and Walthers: Intermountain 2-Bay ACF Centerflow - Part #46509 http://intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/46509u.htm Walthers 37' 2-Bay Trinity Cement Hopper - Part #932-5414 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-5414 Please send emails to bnsf5264@... Thanks!! Matt in PHX

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20623	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

How do I get to view this video?  It appears that it is not available for all people, or am I missing something?   Brad Smith Franklin,WI   In a message dated 11/16/2012 11:51:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, mikesloane@... writes:   If you have 17 minutes to watch this video, it's fascinating. A film made in 1935 showing the processes of steam locomotive building, from steel fabrication to casting, forging, machining, and assembly. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YblqWGmIYTg> And how times have changed. Check out about three minutes in, the crew of men pouring molten iron from a huge crucible. NO goggles, leather aprons, gloves, or anything. Even in those non-OSHA days that seems insane.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20624	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

I get the message that it is private. Walter On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <corlissbs@...> wrote:   How do I get to view this video?  It appears that it is not available for all people, or am I missing something?   Brad Smith Franklin,WI   In a message dated 11/16/2012 11:51:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, mikesloane@... writes:   If you have 17 minutes to watch this video, it's fascinating. A film made in 1935 showing the processes of steam locomotive building, from steel fabrication to casting, forging, machining, and assembly. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YblqWGmIYTg> And how times have changed. Check out about three minutes in, the crew of men pouring molten iron from a huge crucible. NO goggles, leather aprons, gloves, or anything. Even in those non-OSHA days that seems insane. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20625	From: rcjge	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Penn Line GG freight set for sale and other...

Hey Guys: Haven't been on in a while, as my life has gone off in another direction and I'm dramatically reducing my train stuff till I get down to an operational layout soze of likely less than 10 loco's. I intend to keep my Varney Super's and little else vintage wise..... For the moment I am looking to move a freight set of a Penn Line GG1 and it's cars. I don't remember what the set was called in the box originally. Just the cars and the engine which ran when stored but had not been for many years previous, so yes it will need some TLC.... In any case, if you're interested email me and I'll send a pic. I also have several Hobbytown kits, Ambroid, a few etc.... I have to open the bins.... Best, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20626	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers

At a thrift store today, which tends to deal in higher-end stuff, I found a bag containing a few packs of Hi-Ballers Link and Pin couplers. Each pack seems to contain enough for one car. Cast metal coupler head, which mounts to a draft gear box the same way a Kadee #4 would  (Or, years ago, an MDC pocket, or Varney, and so forth...). No draft gear included, but the info card inside says "Use either with or withoug coupler pockets". I suppose one could mount them to the car floor directly; No automatic coupling or uncoupling would be realistic! Neither would a self-centering mechanism! I'd never heard of these before. I plan to mount them to the pilots of my  Mantua Rogers 4-6-0s, and to the end of a train of Mantua Civil War era coaches, for appearance purposes. Also in the bag, was a Wagner Car Company trolley pole kit. All this for $2.50! The couplers do intrigue me a bit, though. Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20627	From: john rj	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: DC and DCC track wiring

I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20628	From: Charles	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

Typically, when it comes to copper, there's no free lunch. And copper prices are high nowadays. I suspect that if you accurately measure the copper tape (or foil) and compare its cross section to the appropriate wire gauge it will be very small. I recommend using the correct gauge wire. That may actually be the lowest cost way to buy the needed amount of copper for the current carrying capability. You might consider what gauge is really needed based on actual expected current draw. A nice table is at: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm 16 ga. is listed about 4 ohms per 1,000 feet. Let's assume a relatively worst case 30 foot run. That would be 0.4 ohm. If you had the buss as a circle, there would actually be two paths to the distant 30 foot point so you have a net of 0.2 ohms. 1 amp would only be a 0.2 volt drop over the 30 feet. Is that good? You be the judge. I don't know what sort of current drop you expect (how many engines? using command control? Passenger car lights?) But this gives you an idea. Also, I would probably use insulated wire just to help make sure you don't get some inadvertent short while working under the railroad in the years to come. And if you find out you are undersized, you can also add more in parallel later, or a single heavy feeder to the other end from the source. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "john rj" <chestef@...> wrote: > > I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. > > While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? > > Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. > > What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? > > John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20629	From: Charles	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

Let me correct my math oops... 16 ga. is listed about 4 ohms per 1,000 feet. 30 foot run is 0.12 ohms. Two paths to the distant 30 feet means 0.06 ohms. Voltage drop for 1 amp load would be 0.06 volts. Chuck Kinzer > Let's assume a relatively worst case 30 foot run. That would be 0.4 ohm. If you had the buss as a circle, there would actually be two paths to the distant 30 foot point so you have a net of 0.2 ohms. > > 1 amp would only be a 0.2 volt drop over the 30 feet. Is that good? You be the judge. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > Typically, when it comes to copper, there's no free lunch. And copper prices are high nowadays. > > I suspect that if you accurately measure the copper tape (or foil) and compare its cross section to the appropriate wire gauge it will be very small. > > I recommend using the correct gauge wire. That may actually be the lowest cost way to buy the needed amount of copper for the current carrying capability. > > You might consider what gauge is really needed based on actual expected current draw. > > A nice table is at: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm > > 16 ga. is listed about 4 ohms per 1,000 feet. > > Let's assume a relatively worst case 30 foot run. That would be 0.4 ohm. If you had the buss as a circle, there would actually be two paths to the distant 30 foot point so you have a net of 0.2 ohms. > > 1 amp would only be a 0.2 volt drop over the 30 feet. Is that good? You be the judge. > > I don't know what sort of current drop you expect (how many engines? using command control? Passenger car lights?) But this gives you an idea. > > Also, I would probably use insulated wire just to help make sure you don't get some inadvertent short while working under the railroad in the years to come. > > And if you find out you are undersized, you can also add more in parallel later, or a single heavy feeder to the other end from the source. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "john rj" <chestef@> wrote: > > > > I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. > > > > While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? > > > > Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. > > > > What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? > > > > John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20630	From: Charles	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

One more thing: If you search for "model railroad buss wire gauge for dcc" you will find some discussions on this topic. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > Let me correct my math oops... > > 16 ga. is listed about 4 ohms per 1,000 feet. > > 30 foot run is 0.12 ohms. > > Two paths to the distant 30 feet means 0.06 ohms. > > Voltage drop for 1 amp load would be 0.06 volts. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > Let's assume a relatively worst case 30 foot run. That would be 0.4 ohm. If you had the buss as a circle, there would actually be two paths to the distant 30 foot point so you have a net of 0.2 ohms. > > > > 1 amp would only be a 0.2 volt drop over the 30 feet. Is that good? You be the judge. > > <SNIP>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20631	From: larry Smith	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

John You are making it too complicated.  You can use regular wire and 16-18 is fine.  You do not have to run bare wire.  You drop power leads and then suitcase connectors to join them to the buss.  Also for a layout of that size I would do 4 power districts so you can trouble shoot the layout if a short occurs. Larry Smith On 12/10/2012 5:14 PM, john rj wrote:   I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20632	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

Ditto. And, I would love to see it. Richard   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 6:51 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Building a steam locomotive     I get the message that it is private. Walter   On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 5:44 PM, <corlissbs@...> wrote:   How do I get to view this video?  It appears that it is not available for all people, or am I missing something?   Brad Smith Franklin,WI   In a message dated 11/16/2012 11:51:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, mikesloane@... writes:   If you have 17 minutes to watch this video, it's fascinating. A film made in 1935 showing the processes of steam locomotive building, from steel fabrication to casting, forging, machining, and assembly. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YblqWGmIYTg> And how times have changed. Check out about three minutes in, the crew of men pouring molten iron from a huge crucible. NO goggles, leather aprons, gloves, or anything. Even in those non-OSHA days that seems insane.   -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20633	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: [Scratch-building] DC and DCC track wiring

Hello John,   If they could give you a really short section so you can see how thick that ¼ “ is.  If it is only a little thicker than tape, it may not carry the currant you may need.  It may not stay stuck to the underside of your layout either.   My layout is 15 by 60.  I use 14 ga stranded, insulated.  I use 20-18 ga feeders, 12 inches or less.  Using one of those wire strippers that pulls the insulation off at the ends, I strip the wire where the feeders come down.  It will open a section of wire ½ inch to wrap the feeder around and then solder it.  Do put it some block section to help trouble shot as others have suggested.  It helps a lot.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://s1292.photobucket.com/albums/b574/lordon104/   From: Scratch-building@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Scratch-building@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of john rj Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:12 PM To: Scratch-building@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Scratch-building] DC and DCC track wiring     I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20634	From: George	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: [Scratch-building] DC and DCC track wiring

Hi John,   I'm in the same camp as Chuck. My layout is only 8' x 12' but I used 14 AWG solid copper insulated wires for my buss with 20 AWG feeders.I soldered every 2 pieces of 3' flex track together and each 6' section has a soldered pair of feeders. The 6' sections are not soldered to each other to allow for expansion/contraction. Overkill? Probably. But it pretty much guarantees I'll have adequate power throughout the layout.   George Brown     From: Scratch-building@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Scratch-building@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of john rj Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:12 PM To: Scratch-building@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Scratch-building] DC and DCC track wiring   I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20635	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

On 12/10/2012 5:14 PM, john rj wrote: > I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. > > While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? > > Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. > > What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? > > John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) > > This stuff has been sold for years for dollhouse wiring. The idea was you just taped your circuits up the walls,then drove little brass brads through the tape to solder your actual wires to. The whole thing was then covered up by paint and wallpaper. Back in the '80's a company called Cir-kit Concepts tried pusing it for layout wiring, but it didn't seem to catch on. I never used it on the layout, but back around that time I did wire a dollhouse my mother was building for the grandkids, and I wasn't all that impressed. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20636	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

My layout uses mostly solid steel wire. A friend of mine that works for a communications company as a contractor, gave me a thousand foot spool of the stuff. Four wires twisted together, so, really, 4,000 feet of wire. He prefers copper wire for communications lines, so uses very little of this stuff. Has worked well for me. Wire joints are made using a home made binding post. A #4 wood screw, about an inch long, is threaded through two #6 washers, and screwed in where the wire joint is to be under the table. The wire junction is twisted together, then wrapped around the screw, between the two washers. Screw the screw tight into the tabletop, and that joint isn't going anywhere! Has already proven to be cat proof! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 12/10/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DC and DCC track wiring To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 10, 2012, 9:48 PM On 12/10/2012 5:14 PM, john rj wrote: > I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years.  Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. > > While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss.  It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc.  If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide.  Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? > > Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question.  I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. > > What do you think?  Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? > > John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) > > This stuff has been sold for years for dollhouse wiring. The idea was you just taped your circuits up the walls,then drove little brass brads through the tape to solder your actual wires to. The whole thing was then covered up by paint and wallpaper. Back in the '80's a company called Cir-kit Concepts tried pusing it for layout wiring, but it didn't seem to catch on. I never used it on the layout, but back around that time I did wire a dollhouse my mother was building for the grandkids, and I wasn't all that impressed. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20637	From: John Hutnick	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

This may be the video that is referred to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20638	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

On 12/10/2012 6:14 PM, john rj wrote: I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) Grab a roll of that tape.  It's great for illumination inside structures and rolling stock.  I wouldn't use it for a throttle bus however.  It isn't as strong as copper wire and it will likely break when you bump against it working under the layout.  I wired my throttle bus using ordinary 14 gauge Romex (house wire). It is overkill from an electrical standpoint, but it's rugged, it is widely available and I had some left over from a home remodeling project.  I didn't use suitcase connectors. I merely stripped the plastic insulation away with a knife where ever I needed to add a 20 gauge feeder. Feeders were soldered to the bus wire.  Stagger the feeders and then you don't have to insulate the joint.  I would avoid using anything heavier than 14 gauge wire, the larger sizes are too stiff to work easily.    -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20639	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers

Check walthers: alexander scale models took over some of the mew kits.  the current owner has the couplers.  george From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers   At a thrift store today, which tends to deal in higher-end stuff, I found a bag containing a few packs of Hi-Ballers Link and Pin couplers. Each pack seems to contain enough for one car. Cast metal coupler head, which mounts to a draft gear box the same way a Kadee #4 would  (Or, years ago, an MDC pocket, or Varney, and so forth...). No draft gear included, but the info card inside says "Use either with or withoug coupler pockets". I suppose one could mount them to the car floor directly; No automatic coupling or uncoupling would be realistic! Neither would a self-centering mechanism! I'd never heard of these before. I plan to mount them to the pilots of my  Mantua Rogers 4-6-0s, and to the end of a train of Mantua Civil War era coaches, for appearance purposes. Also in the bag, was a Wagner Car Company trolley pole kit. All this for $2.50! The couplers do intrigue me a bit, though. Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20640	From: lewis.ted16	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hi-Ballers Link and Pin Couplers

http://www.mikesrails.com/2011/06/danger-working-on-railroad-could-have.html--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > At a thrift store today, which tends to deal in higher-end stuff, I found a bag containing a few packs of Hi-Ballers Link and Pin couplers. Each pack seems to contain enough for one car. Cast metal coupler head, which mounts to a draft gear box the same way a Kadee #4 would  (Or, years ago, an MDC pocket, or Varney, and so forth...). No draft gear included, but the info card inside says "Use either with or withoug coupler pockets". I suppose one could mount them to the car floor directly; No automatic coupling or uncoupling would be realistic! Neither would a self-centering mechanism! > > I'd never heard of these before. I plan to mount them to the pilots of my  Mantua Rogers 4-6-0s, and to the end of a train of Mantua Civil War era coaches, for appearance purposes. > > Also in the bag, was a Wagner Car Company trolley pole kit. All this for $2.50! > > The couplers do intrigue me a bit, though. > > Thanks > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20641	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

That was awesome. I don’t know why, but I assumed the one to which we had originally been referred was US? Guess not. Thanks.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hutnick Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     This may be the video that is referred to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20642	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

It was also interesting to see the cranks between the drivers.   I guess these had additional internal cylinders also.  I saw two cranks on the cylinder, which I assume that means two internal cylinders.   Quite a complicated design. Dale Smith On 12/12/2012 8:04 AM, Richard Carbo wrote:   That was awesome. I don’t know why, but I assumed the one to which we had originally been referred was US? Guess not. Thanks.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hutnick Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     This may be the video that is referred to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20643	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

Toward the end of the film, you can see the front of the cylinders at 14:16 when the boiler is being moved in order to place her to her wheels, and again at 15:13 as the loco is being pulled out of the shed. Tell me, gents, am I correct in counting eight chuffs per revolution of the drivers? Walter On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   It was also interesting to see the cranks between the drivers.   I guess these had additional internal cylinders also.  I saw two cranks on the cylinder, which I assume that means two internal cylinders.   Quite a complicated design. Dale Smith On 12/12/2012 8:04 AM, Richard Carbo wrote:   That was awesome. I don’t know why, but I assumed the one to which we had originally been referred was US? Guess not. Thanks.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hutnick Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     This may be the video that is referred to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20644	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

Let’s see. Four cylinders and two chuffs per cylinder per revolution – yep eights chuffs per revolution. And they will always be evenly spaced and in sequence.   That is quite an engineering feat, especially with the rather crude, blacksmith type methods in use at the time. I was amazed to see the weight of the iron ladle being counter balanced by workers. Bet the guy on the end nearest the ladle got plenty warm.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     Toward the end of the film, you can see the front of the cylinders at 14:16 when the boiler is being moved in order to place her to her wheels, and again at 15:13 as the loco is being pulled out of the shed.   Tell me, gents, am I correct in counting eight chuffs per revolution of the drivers?   Walter On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   It was also interesting to see the cranks between the drivers.   I guess these had additional internal cylinders also.  I saw two cranks on the cylinder, which I assume that means two internal cylinders.   Quite a complicated design. Dale Smith On 12/12/2012 8:04 AM, Richard Carbo wrote:   That was awesome. I don’t know why, but I assumed the one to which we had originally been referred was US? Guess not. Thanks.   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hutnick Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     This may be the video that is referred to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20645	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

The men being used to counterbalance was amazing to me too. I can’t imagine why they didn’t use weights or something to do that. Looked pretty dangerous. Richard Carbo   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hagen Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:36 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     Let’s see. Four cylinders and two chuffs per cylinder per revolution – yep eights chuffs per revolution. And they will always be evenly spaced and in sequence.   That is quite an engineering feat, especially with the rather crude, blacksmith type methods in use at the time. I was amazed to see the weight of the iron ladle being counter balanced by workers. Bet the guy on the end nearest the ladle got plenty warm.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     Toward the end of the film, you can see the front of the cylinders at 14:16 when the boiler is being moved in order to place her to her wheels, and again at 15:13 as the loco is being pulled out of the shed.   Tell me, gents, am I correct in counting eight chuffs per revolution of the drivers?   Walter On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   It was also interesting to see the cranks between the drivers.   I guess these had additional internal cylinders also.  I saw two cranks on the cylinder, which I assume that means two internal cylinders.   Quite a complicated design. Dale Smith On 12/12/2012 8:04 AM, Richard Carbo wrote:   That was awesome. I don’t know why, but I assumed the one to which we had originally been referred was US? Guess not. Thanks   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hutnick Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:31 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive     This may be the video that is referred to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20646	From: johnhutnick@gmail.com	Date: 12/13/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

This is the website of the Princess Royal Class Locomotive Trust http://www.prclt.co.uk/index2.html, which is the engine shown under construction. Two of these are preserved. Models were offerred first by Triang and later by Hornby in UK OO(HO track). A book has been published: LMS Locomtive Profiles No. 4 - The Princess Royal Pacifics. This includes all of the details and original drawings. The class that succeeded these was the Princess Coronation or Duchess class. 3 are preserved. Look on youtube under Duchess Locomotive or Duchess of Sutherland, and you can see running under current operation. Models were done by Hornby, Wrenn, etc. in OO, Finescale Brass in O and 1 gauge, and Aster in 1 gauge live steam(4 working cylinders). --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Carbo" <flyerguy3@...> wrote: > > The men being used to counterbalance was amazing to me too. I can't imagine > why they didn't use weights or something to do that. Looked pretty > dangerous. Richard Carbo > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hagen > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:36 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive > > > > > > Let's see. Four cylinders and two chuffs per cylinder per revolution - yep > eights chuffs per revolution. And they will always be evenly spaced and in > sequence. > > > > That is quite an engineering feat, especially with the rather crude, > blacksmith type methods in use at the time. I was amazed to see the weight > of the iron ladle being counter balanced by workers. Bet the guy on the end > nearest the ladle got plenty warm. > > > > John Hagen > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Walter Bayer II > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:20 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive > > > > > > Toward the end of the film, you can see the front of the cylinders at 14:16 > when the boiler is being moved in order to place her to her wheels, and > again at 15:13 as the loco is being pulled out of the shed. > > > > Tell me, gents, am I correct in counting eight chuffs per revolution of the > drivers? > > > > Walter > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote: > > > > It was also interesting to see the cranks between the drivers. I guess > these had additional internal cylinders also. I saw two cranks on the > cylinder, which I assume that means two internal cylinders. Quite a > complicated design. > > Dale Smith > > On 12/12/2012 8:04 AM, Richard Carbo wrote: > > > > That was awesome. I don't know why, but I assumed the one to which we had > originally been referred was US? Guess not. Thanks > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of John Hutnick > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:31 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building a steam locomotive > > > > > > This may be the video that is referred to: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIEudnoRYU >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20647	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

I just purchased a collection of Selley Freight Car kits off eBay and while they haven't arrived, I began to question my own sanity after winning the auction. I don't recall Selley making any HO scale freight car kits. I have their two passenger car kits (in all cast metal!) but after searching both this list and the HO Seeker website, I was no wiser. There is no mention of any Selley freight car kits. And a Google search was even less productive! So my question to the group is - did Selley make freight car kits? Were they originally someone else's kits that were just repackaged under the Selley name? Or did Selley not continue them due to lack of interest? Just curious and figured that at least one of the wizards on this list might know. Once they arrive I will post photos if that is of interest. V/r Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20648	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

I also don't know. I've noticed that they had all these parts that would build freight cars, so maybe they did have the kits for at least a spell? Otherwise, why have the parts in the catalog? Mike Bauers On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:41 AM, ablecynic wrote: > I just purchased a collection of Selley Freight Car kits off eBay and while they haven't arrived, I began to question my own sanity after winning the auction. I don't recall Selley making any HO scale freight car kits. I have their two passenger car kits (in all cast metal!) but after searching both this list and the HO Seeker website, I was no wiser. There is no mention of any Selley freight car kits. And a Google search was even less productive! So my question to the group is - did Selley make freight car kits? Were they originally someone else's kits that were just repackaged under the Selley name? Or did Selley not continue them due to lack of interest? Just curious and figured that at least one of the wizards on this list might know. Once they arrive I will post photos if that is of interest. > > V/r > Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20649	From: john.allyn@comcast.net	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

I can confirm that they made freight car kits.  Long ago -- I was in my teens -- I built a high side gondola kit.  Their line closely paralleled the Model Die Casting open top car line -- low side gondola, high side gondola, ore cars -- and I always had the suspicion that they were using their competitors' castings for their dies.  This may account for their short time on the market. The Selley kits were all metal, not zamac but lead or type metal castings.  They weighed a ton.   Where the MDC cars had a rather sturdy system to attach the sides to the floor, the Selley kits had a rather crude fork-shaped dohickey cast on that back of the sides.  These were extremely fragile due to the softness of the casting metal.  This was in the day before ACC cement so when I snapped off a fork (probably due to overtightening the screw) I was never able to get the sides to stay in place.    John B. Allyn From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:32:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on Selley Freight Car Kits   I also don't know. I've noticed that they had all these parts that would build freight cars, so maybe they did have the kits for at least a spell? Otherwise, why have the parts in the catalog? Mike Bauers On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:41 AM, ablecynic wrote: > I just purchased a collection of Selley Freight Car kits off eBay and while they haven't arrived, I began to question my own sanity after winning the auction. I don't recall Selley making any HO scale freight car kits. I have their two passenger car kits (in all cast metal!) but after searching both this list and the HO Seeker website, I was no wiser. There is no mention of any Selley freight car kits. And a Google search was even less productive! So my question to the group is - did Selley make freight car kits? Were they originally someone else's kits that were just repackaged under the Selley name? Or did Selley not continue them due to lack of interest? Just curious and figured that at least one of the wizards on this list might know. Once they arrive I will post photos if that is of interest. > > V/r > Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20650	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

I'm pretty sure I have two Selley kits. I think there is a low side gondola and maybe a flat car. I'd look quickly, but they are buried in some boxes. I'll be interested to hear what you get. Mine are in simple, brown, light-cardboard boxes with an equally simple end sticker for contents. Very basic, but nifty in their own way. Castings seem decent. Dennis At 04:41 AM 12/14/2012, you wrote: >I just purchased a collection of Selley Freight Car kits off eBay >and while they haven't arrived, I began to question my own sanity >after winning the auction. I don't recall Selley making any HO scale >freight car kits. I have their two passenger car kits (in all cast >metal!) but after searching both this list and the HO Seeker >website, I was no wiser. There is no mention of any Selley freight >car kits. And a Google search was even less productive! So my >question to the group is - did Selley make freight car kits? Were >they originally someone else's kits that were just repackaged under >the Selley name? Or did Selley not continue them due to lack of >interest? Just curious and figured that at least one of the wizards >on this list might know. Once they arrive I will post photos if that >is of interest. > >V/r >Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20651	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

I have some defective PC parts that have this copper tape as part of them. Looks like I can carefully peel it and re use it too. I'd have never thought to use it for wiring inside my buildings. A number of my buildings not only have interior detailing, but grain of wheat bulbs where lamps and lights would actually be. This would be easy to hide: sandwiched, as real building wire, in the framework between interior and exterior walls. Thanks for the idea! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 12/11/12, David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...> wrote: From: David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DC and DCC track wiring To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 10:37 AM   On 12/10/2012 6:14 PM, john rj wrote: I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) Grab a roll of that tape.  It's great for illumination inside structures and rolling stock.  I wouldn't use it for a throttle bus however.  It isn't as strong as copper wire and it will likely break when you bump against it working under the layout.  I wired my throttle bus using ordinary 14 gauge Romex (house wire). It is overkill from an electrical standpoint, but it's rugged, it is widely available and I had some left over from a home remodeling project.  I didn't use suitcase connectors. I merely stripped the plastic insulation away with a knife where ever I needed to add a 20 gauge feeder. Feeders were soldered to the bus wire.  Stagger the feeders and then you don't have to insulate the joint.  I would avoid using anything heavier than 14 gauge wire, the larger sizes are too stiff to work easily.    -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20652	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

Steve, Along the lines of interior lighting...... Well, let me tell you that I'm enjoying buying LEDs in packs like 3mm/5mm domes at 100 for under $5, and the smaller 1x3mm flats at about 300 for under $9. The warm-whites look like miniature incandescent lighting and you can get those 1x3mm pre wired on a tape that trims to 3-4 of them at the breaks. The entire string of them are on a very thin copper strip and the whole thing runs on native 12 volts. I just bought a lifetime supply of the separate 1x3mm warm-whites at 1000 for $19. I have a bunch of projects in mind for these like those tiny in HO roof top trolley route signs, lighted of course, and those scale marker lights I think should be lit. I'll even be able to put those small lights you see on the diesel access steps. So, with the strip 1x3mm I have light modules for some 33 interior rooms or car compartments. As for the separates, I'll get a lot of single bulb modeling from those. What I'm leading to is that tiny and quite bright led light strips and separate LEDs mean you can use very tiny wires that are easy to work with and easy to hide. You should give some thought to trying these. Here's a sample of these.... http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=221036250349 Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: I have some defective PC parts that have this copper tape as part of them. Looks like I can carefully peel it and re use it too. I'd have never thought to use it for wiring inside my buildings. A number of my buildings not only have interior detailing, but grain of wheat bulbs where lamps and lights would actually be. This would be easy to hide: sandwiched, as real building wire, in the framework between interior and exterior walls. Thanks for the idea! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 12/11/12, David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...> wrote: From: David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DC and DCC track wiring To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 10:37 AM   On 12/10/2012 6:14 PM, john rj wrote: I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) Grab a roll of that tape.  It's great for illumination inside structures and rolling stock.  I wouldn't use it for a throttle bus however.  It isn't as strong as copper wire and it will likely break when you bump against it working under the layout.  I wired my throttle bus using ordinary 14 gauge Romex (house wire). It is overkill from an electrical standpoint, but it's rugged, it is widely available and I had some left over from a home remodeling project.  I didn't use suitcase connectors. I merely stripped the plastic insulation away with a knife where ever I needed to add a 20 gauge feeder. Feeders were soldered to the bus wire.  Stagger the feeders and then you don't have to insulate the joint.  I would avoid using anything heavier than 14 gauge wire, the larger sizes are too stiff to work easily.    -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20653	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 12/14/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DC and DCC track wiring To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, December 14, 2012, 8:58 PM   Steve, Along the lines of interior lighting...... Well, let me tell you that I'm enjoying buying LEDs in packs like 3mm/5mm domes at 100 for under $5, and the smaller 1x3mm flats at about 300 for under $9. The warm-whites look like miniature incandescent lighting and you can get those 1x3mm pre wired on a tape that trims to 3-4 of them at the breaks. The entire string of them are on a very thin copper strip and the whole thing runs on native 12 volts. I just bought a lifetime supply of the separate 1x3mm warm-whites at 1000 for $19. I have a bunch of projects in mind for these like those tiny in HO roof top trolley route signs, lighted of course, and those scale marker lights I think should be lit. I'll even be able to put those small lights you see on the diesel access steps. So, with the strip 1x3mm I have light modules for some 33 interior rooms or car compartments. As for the separates, I'll get a lot of single bulb modeling from those. What I'm leading to is that tiny and quite bright led light strips and separate LEDs mean you can use very tiny wires that are easy to work with and easy to hide. You should give some thought to trying these. Here's a sample of these.... http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=221036250349 Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: I have some defective PC parts that have this copper tape as part of them. Looks like I can carefully peel it and re use it too. I'd have never thought to use it for wiring inside my buildings. A number of my buildings not only have interior detailing, but grain of wheat bulbs where lamps and lights would actually be. This would be easy to hide: sandwiched, as real building wire, in the framework between interior and exterior walls. Thanks for the idea! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 12/11/12, David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...> wrote: From: David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DC and DCC track wiring To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 10:37 AM   On 12/10/2012 6:14 PM, john rj wrote: I have been drawing out my track plan for my first HO layout in over 30 years. Many articles on track laying and wiring describe methods of wiring a parallel circuit to the tracks that act as an electrical buss (for lack of a better term) in order to compensate for brass or steel track resistance or lack of conductivity at the rail gaps. While being dragged kicking and screaming through the arts and crafts store last week I saw a fantastic way to provide this buss. It is copper tape for making stained glass lamp shades, windows, etc. If memory serves there was 90 meters per roll x ¼" wide. Since the crafts people wrap the glass edges and solder them together, why wouldn't I be able to attach the tape to the underside of the supporting structure and solder the feeder leads from the tracks to the foil buss? Conductivity is in the equation, but 16 ga. To 12 ga. Bare wire is far more expensive and handling is a question. I plan on a 24 ft x 36 foot layout – meaning long runs of track. What do you think? Is it too light or just untried and therefore not in the articles and books? John Johnson (Retired Mechanical, but not informed Electrical Engineer, yet) Grab a roll of that tape.  It's great for illumination inside structures and rolling stock.  I wouldn't use it for a throttle bus however.  It isn't as strong as copper wire and it will likely break when you bump against it working under the layout.  I wired my throttle bus using ordinary 14 gauge Romex (house wire). It is overkill from an electrical standpoint, but it's rugged, it is widely available and I had some left over from a home remodeling project.  I didn't use suitcase connectors. I merely stripped the plastic insulation away with a knife where ever I needed to add a 20 gauge feeder. Feeders were soldered to the bus wire.  Stagger the feeders and then you don't have to insulate the joint.  I would avoid using anything heavier than 14 gauge wire, the larger sizes are too stiff to work easily.    -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20654	From: Watermans	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

What an awesome film. Having travelled to the UK 20 times in less than the last 3 years, I got to see some of their railroading and have grown fond of the clean elegant look of their steam locomotives. There are steam powered tourist railroads all over the UK, and a pretty large number of railfans. They recently built a brand new locomotive similar in size (and wheel configuration, a 4-6-2)) to this one - from scratch. It's called an A1 and is running many excursions. It's kind of like if we in the US built a brand new New York Central J3 - they did it. They have their own site on line, and many YouTube videos of the loco in service. Not quite made the same way, they used a welded boiler, and I'm sure many more machined parts and less castings and forgings. http://www.a1steam.com/ Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20655	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

John, Thank you for the confirmation! I will post photos when I get the kits. The listing gave the following kit descriptions and kit numbers: LOT OF OLD TIME SELLEY KITS VINTAGE 2 - K-103 LOW GONDOLA K-105 GONDOLA k-104 HIGH GONDOLA K-102 ORE CAR ORE CAR GONDOLA We'll see what they look like. From the photo they appear to all be in the original boxes. V/r Matt Coleman Talking Rock, GA --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, john.allyn@... wrote: > > > > I can confirm that they made freight car kits.  Long ago -- I was in my teens -- I built a high side gondola kit.  Their line closely paralleled the Model Die Casting open top car line -- low side gondola, high side gondola, ore cars -- and I always had the suspicion that they were using their competitors' castings for their dies.  This may account for their short time on the market. The Selley kits were all metal, not zamac but lead or type metal castings.  They weighed a ton. > >   > > Where the MDC cars had a rather sturdy system to attach the sides to the floor, the Selley kits had a rather crude fork-shaped dohickey cast on that back of the sides.  These were extremely fragile due to the softness of the casting metal.  This was in the day before ACC cement so when I snapped off a fork (probably due to overtightening the screw) I was never able to get the sides to stay in place.  > >   > John B. Allyn >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20656	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

Dennis, Thanks for your reply. Once I get the kits, I will post photos. The listing gave the following information on the kit numbers and identification. Not exactly encyclopedic but a help. LOT OF OLD TIME SELLEY KITS VINTAGE 2 - K-103 LOW GONDOLA K-105 GONDOLA k-104 HIGH GONDOLA K-102 ORE CAR ORE CAR GONDOLA Again, thanks for your reply. Every bit of information helps. V/r Matt Coleman Talking Rock, GA --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote: > > I'm pretty sure I have two Selley kits. I think there is a low side > gondola and maybe a flat car. I'd look quickly, but they are buried > in some boxes. I'll be interested to hear what you get. Mine are in > simple, brown, light-cardboard boxes with an equally simple end > sticker for contents. Very basic, but nifty in their own > way. Castings seem decent. > > Dennis >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20657	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

Steve (et al.), They may be hard to find, but Gilbert had H0 track with integral roadbed pre and post-war. The post war (actually introduced in '40) had a brown bakelite roadbed and the rails were not correct profile. Sixteen inch radius curves. See, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1949Catalog/AF_1949_catalog_page39.htm".  I don't have any of their pre-war track, for the AC powered H0 trains, but I believe the rail profile was correct, and the roadbed was metal. "Solid drawn steel rails mounted on realistic roadbed base" in the catalog. For example, see, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page8.htm". Radius of the curves was 24". Not bad! For power, I had (and still have tucked away) the No. 14 Rectiformer from 1949 the used a vacuum tube to convert the AC to DC. (The safety wire screen is lost, darn!) If your curious about the Gilbert H0 equipment, go to, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20658	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

Matt, Yes, just as John mentions, Selley did indeed make freight car kits. I have a few myself, but just like Dennis' kits, mine are buried too. However, my Selley Catalog #4-4 (October 1957) shows six freight car kits on page 10: K-101 (Bethlehem-built) Ore Car K-102 (Pullman Standard) Ore Car K-103 40' Low-Side Gondola K-104 40' Peaked End ("Round Top") High Side Gondola K-105 40' Square End High Side Gondola K-106 32' Two Bay Covered Hopper As has been pointed out, and which you probably know, they did produce other car parts, like 32' composite-side and panel-side hopper sides, 32' and longer (50'?) composite-side gondola sides, 40' and 50' flat car and 50' depressed center flat car sides -- and many different car ends, so they could have produced these cars later but only had the six I've outlined at that time. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20659	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

Matt, Okay, I just now saw your messages from earlier this morning, stating some of the kit numbers that were already made known to you by the seller. They're legitimate Selley numbers for actual Selley kits. Best of luck with them. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20660	From: johnhutnick@gmail.com	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Building a steam locomotive

On the same subject, go to this site: http://www.steamdreams.com/Executables/GT410WebContent.exe?&ActionCode=Locomotives&SS=SDSVR01\SQLExpress&DB=SteamDreams&Division=A On the A1 Tornado site mentioned before, go to Travels. It lists all upcoming trips. By selecting some of the individual trains, go to SteamDreams. This shows all operating steam in use for these trips. For anyone wanting to ride steam, the UK is probably the best choice. And on the dates show for one of these trains, there are likely dozens of the preserved lines in steam. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Watermans <Watermaj@...> wrote: > > What an awesome film. Having travelled to the UK 20 times in less than > the last 3 years, I got to see some of their railroading and have grown > fond of the clean elegant look of their steam locomotives. There are > steam powered tourist railroads all over the UK, and a pretty large > number of railfans. > > They recently built a brand new locomotive similar in size (and wheel > configuration, a 4-6-2)) to this one - from scratch. It's called an A1 > and is running many excursions. It's kind of like if we in the US built > a brand new New York Central J3 - they did it. They have their own site > on line, and many YouTube videos of the loco in service. Not quite made > the same way, they used a welded boiler, and I'm sure many more machined > parts and less castings and forgings. > > http://www.a1steam.com/ > > Jim Waterman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20661	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

For a photo of the Bakelite based track Walter mentions in use on a Gilbert display layout, go to http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/brc/at_controls.htm .  This photo is a frame from Gilbert's Boys' Railroad Club programs of 1950.  Many of my S gauge friends find it hard to believe that this layout also contained HO trackage, but at the time, Gilbert was still promoting the HO line and did so up until 1951, when they ceased HO production until after the Korean War. Dale On 12/15/2012 7:22 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Steve (et al.), They may be hard to find, but Gilbert had H0 track with integral roadbed pre and post-war. The post war (actually introduced in '40) had a brown bakelite roadbed and the rails were not correct profile. Sixteen inch radius curves. See, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1949Catalog/AF_1949_catalog_page39.htm".  I don't have any of their pre-war track, for the AC powered H0 trains, but I believe the rail profile was correct, and the roadbed was metal. "Solid drawn steel rails mounted on realistic roadbed base" in the catalog. For example, see, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page8.htm". Radius of the curves was 24". Not bad! For power, I had (and still have tucked away) the No. 14 Rectiformer from 1949 the used a vacuum tube to convert the AC to DC. (The safety wire screen is lost, darn!) If your curious about the Gilbert H0 equipment, go to, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20662	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

There is a Gilbert # 14 Rectiformer, also missing the safety screen (seller calls it a "bale"), on eBay, with nice photos: "http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-14-150-Watt-Rectiformer-Transformer-EX-w-Box-Instruction-sheet-/281034104138?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item416ef01d4a". Looks better than mine! If it had the "bale", I'd be sorely tempted. For the record, I have no relationship, direct or indirect, with the seller. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   For a photo of the Bakelite based track Walter mentions in use on a Gilbert display layout, go to http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/brc/at_controls.htm .  This photo is a frame from Gilbert's Boys' Railroad Club programs of 1950.  Many of my S gauge friends find it hard to believe that this layout also contained HO trackage, but at the time, Gilbert was still promoting the HO line and did so up until 1951, when they ceased HO production until after the Korean War. Dale On 12/15/2012 7:22 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Steve (et al.), They may be hard to find, but Gilbert had H0 track with integral roadbed pre and post-war. The post war (actually introduced in '40) had a brown bakelite roadbed and the rails were not correct profile. Sixteen inch radius curves. See, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1949Catalog/AF_1949_catalog_page39.htm".  I don't have any of their pre-war track, for the AC powered H0 trains, but I believe the rail profile was correct, and the roadbed was metal. "Solid drawn steel rails mounted on realistic roadbed base" in the catalog. For example, see, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page8.htm". Radius of the curves was 24". Not bad! For power, I had (and still have tucked away) the No. 14 Rectiformer from 1949 the used a vacuum tube to convert the AC to DC. (The safety wire screen is lost, darn!) If your curious about the Gilbert H0 equipment, go to, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20663	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

He might have meant "bail" which can mean a wire loop or half-loop used as a handle.  Also, for some electronic instruments there is a thick metal wire that can be a handle or swung underneath to act as means to prop up the front a little.  These are usually called a "bail".  Some tube type items have a wire loop over it that helps keep the tube from jostling out.  This may be why the word "bail" is used and it would fit that usage.   Chuck Kinzer (old enough to have worked with vacuum tubes.  For those who speak real English, "valves".)   ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Bayer II To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   There is a Gilbert # 14 Rectiformer, also missing the safety screen (seller calls it a "bale"), on eBay, with nice photos: "http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-14-150-Watt-Rectiformer-Transformer-EX-w-Box-Instruction-sheet-/281034104138?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item416ef01d4a". Looks better than mine! If it had the "bale", I'd be sorely tempted. For the record, I have no relationship, direct or indirect, with the seller. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   For a photo of the Bakelite based track Walter mentions in use on a Gilbert display layout, go to http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/brc/at_controls.htm .  This photo is a frame from Gilbert's Boys' Railroad Club programs of 1950.  Many of my S gauge friends find it hard to believe that this layout also contained HO trackage, but at the time, Gilbert was still promoting the HO line and did so up until 1951, when they ceased HO production until after the Korean War. Dale On 12/15/2012 7:22 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Steve (et al.), They may be hard to find, but Gilbert had H0 track with integral roadbed pre and post-war. The post war (actually introduced in '40) had a brown bakelite roadbed and the rails were not correct profile. Sixteen inch radius curves. See, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1949Catalog/AF_1949_catalog_page39.htm".  I don't have any of their pre-war track, for the AC powered H0 trains, but I believe the rail profile was correct, and the roadbed was metal. "Solid drawn steel rails mounted on realistic roadbed base" in the catalog. For example, see, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page8.htm". Radius of the curves was 24". Not bad! For power, I had (and still have tucked away) the No. 14 Rectiformer from 1949 the used a vacuum tube to convert the AC to DC. (The safety wire screen is lost, darn!) If your curious about the Gilbert H0 equipment, go to, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20664	From: William Anderson	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

Don't you think this in reference to a metal cage that fits over the fragile glass tube to provide physical protection? ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   He might have meant "bail" which can mean a wire loop or half-loop used as a handle.  Also, for some electronic instruments there is a thick metal wire that can be a handle or swung underneath to act as means to prop up the front a little.  These are usually called a "bail".  Some tube type items have a wire loop over it that helps keep the tube from jostling out.  This may be why the word "bail" is used and it would fit that usage.   Chuck Kinzer (old enough to have worked with vacuum tubes.  For those who speak real English, "valves".)   ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Bayer II To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   There is a Gilbert # 14 Rectiformer, also missing the safety screen (seller calls it a "bale"), on eBay, with nice photos: "http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-14-150-Watt-Rectiformer-Transformer-EX-w-Box-Instruction-sheet-/281034104138?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item416ef01d4a". Looks better than mine! If it had the "bale", I'd be sorely tempted. For the record, I have no relationship, direct or indirect, with the seller. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   For a photo of the Bakelite based track Walter mentions in use on a Gilbert display layout, go to http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/brc/at_controls.htm .  This photo is a frame from Gilbert's Boys' Railroad Club programs of 1950.  Many of my S gauge friends find it hard to believe that this layout also contained HO trackage, but at the time, Gilbert was still promoting the HO line and did so up until 1951, when they ceased HO production until after the Korean War. Dale On 12/15/2012 7:22 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Steve (et al.), They may be hard to find, but Gilbert had H0 track with integral roadbed pre and post-war. The post war (actually introduced in '40) had a brown bakelite roadbed and the rails were not correct profile. Sixteen inch radius curves. See, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1949Catalog/AF_1949_catalog_page39.htm".  I don't have any of their pre-war track, for the AC powered H0 trains, but I believe the rail profile was correct, and the roadbed was metal. "Solid drawn steel rails mounted on realistic roadbed base" in the catalog. For example, see, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page8.htm". Radius of the curves was 24". Not bad! For power, I had (and still have tucked away) the No. 14 Rectiformer from 1949 the used a vacuum tube to convert the AC to DC. (The safety wire screen is lost, darn!) If your curious about the Gilbert H0 equipment, go to, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20665	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

I don't know what the part looks like.  If it is like a cage rather than a loop, then "bail" doesn't seem like quite the best word.   But, you often can get surprised what words an industry or hobby latches onto.  (Is it "switch" or "turnout" for example.)   At any rate, I just wanted to point out that "bail" usually means wire loop (one loop in every context I have seen it).   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: William Anderson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   Don't you think this in reference to a metal cage that fits over the fragile glass tube to provide physical protection? ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   He might have meant "bail" which can mean a wire loop or half-loop used as a handle.  Also, for some electronic instruments there is a thick metal wire that can be a handle or swung underneath to act as means to prop up the front a little.  These are usually called a "bail".  Some tube type items have a wire loop over it that helps keep the tube from jostling out.  This may be why the word "bail" is used and it would fit that usage.   Chuck Kinzer (old enough to have worked with vacuum tubes.  For those who speak real English, "valves".)   ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Bayer II To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   There is a Gilbert # 14 Rectiformer, also missing the safety screen (seller calls it a "bale"), on eBay, with nice photos: "http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-14-150-Watt-Rectiformer-Transformer-EX-w-Box-Instruction-sheet-/281034104138?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item416ef01d4a". Looks better than mine! If it had the "bale", I'd be sorely tempted. For the record, I have no relationship, direct or indirect, with the seller. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote:   For a photo of the Bakelite based track Walter mentions in use on a Gilbert display layout, go to http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/brc/at_controls.htm .  This photo is a frame from Gilbert's Boys' Railroad Club programs of 1950.  Many of my S gauge friends find it hard to believe that this layout also contained HO trackage, but at the time, Gilbert was still promoting the HO line and did so up until 1951, when they ceased HO production until after the Korean War. Dale On 12/15/2012 7:22 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Steve (et al.), They may be hard to find, but Gilbert had H0 track with integral roadbed pre and post-war. The post war (actually introduced in '40) had a brown bakelite roadbed and the rails were not correct profile. Sixteen inch radius curves. See, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1949Catalog/AF_1949_catalog_page39.htm".  I don't have any of their pre-war track, for the AC powered H0 trains, but I believe the rail profile was correct, and the roadbed was metal. "Solid drawn steel rails mounted on realistic roadbed base" in the catalog. For example, see, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page8.htm". Radius of the curves was 24". Not bad! For power, I had (and still have tucked away) the No. 14 Rectiformer from 1949 the used a vacuum tube to convert the AC to DC. (The safety wire screen is lost, darn!) If your curious about the Gilbert H0 equipment, go to, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Mike (and all), I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20666	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??

>Probably an oddly written subject line. A good friend just gave me >his entire collection of Model Railroader and Railroad Model >Craftsmen magazines. ALL are in MR and MRC >binders<.... I've >only begun to haul them home, but the first MR binder was 1940 and >he says he thinks he has everything from the very first issue of >MR. Supposed to be every issue through the early 2000's. Ahhhh. Where to put them ?????????? All in very good condition; no mildew, etc. I have subscribed to both magazines occasionally in my life, but not for a good many years now. I am actually quite happy to have these in spite of the storage issues that come with them. I told my friend if his situation ever changed, he could have them back. I have heard that there is an all time index for MR now. Maybe all MR issues are available for sale on disk now too? I don't know what all I've heard about that. I also know that a lot of techniques, available parts, etc., etc., have changed through the years making a lot of the information in old magazines obsolete. Any comments on today's research value for these? I'm almost overwhelmed. Dennis

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20667	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??

This is the online index and I have found it to not work as well as I would like.  But the price is right (free):   http://trc.trains.com/magazineindex/   Kalmbach has a "75 years of Model Railroader" DVD and also other ones for some of their other offerings.  Here the big 75 year collection...   http://www.kalmbachstore.com/15120.html   I have the 75 year collection and gave my 600+ copies of MR to the local hobby shop to sell or give away, I didn't care.  Was VERY glad to free up the shelf space.  And the searchability of the DVD is fairly decent.  199 bucks may seem like a lot, but it is a whopping amount of information.  (I had been buying some binders of older issues to fill out my collection, and between that cost and the shipping cost, 199 bucks ends being cheaper for most I suspect.)   Here is a new offering of many of their special issues...   http://www.kalmbachstore.com/15140.html   Here is Kalmbach's 70 years of Trains magazine...   http://www.kalmbachstore.com/15100.html   And 10 years of Classic Trains magazine (it started only about 10 years ago and is, in my very railroady opinion, a superb magazine)...   http://www.kalmbachstore.com/15110.html   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Thompson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 3:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??   >Probably an oddly written subject line. A good friend just gave me >his entire collection of Model Railroader and Railroad Model >Craftsmen magazines. ALL are in MR and MRC >binders<.... I've >only begun to haul them home, but the first MR binder was 1940 and >he says he thinks he has everything from the very first issue of >MR. Supposed to be every issue through the early 2000's. Ahhhh. Where to put them ?????????? All in very good condition; no mildew, etc. I have subscribed to both magazines occasionally in my life, but not for a good many years now. I am actually quite happy to have these in spite of the storage issues that come with them. I told my friend if his situation ever changed, he could have them back. I have heard that there is an all time index for MR now. Maybe all MR issues are available for sale on disk now too? I don't know what all I've heard about that. I also know that a lot of techniques, available parts, etc., etc., have changed through the years making a lot of the information in old magazines obsolete. Any comments on today's research value for these? I'm almost overwhelmed. Dennis

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20668	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

Chuck, I believe you right that "bail" is the correct spelling. I don't know if it is the correct term. In the case of the Rectiformer, it cannot be used as a handle. It slips in and out of its holes very easily, too easily, which is why it is usually lost. I believe its sole functions are to protect the user from accidentally burning himself by touching the 'valve', and to protect the valve from being damaged. The wire thing must be removed to pack the Rectiformer in its carton where a fitted cylinder of cardboard protects it. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 5:49 PM, <ckinzer@...> wrote:   He might have meant "bail" which can mean a wire loop or half-loop used as a handle.  Also, for some electronic instruments there is a thick metal wire that can be a handle or swung underneath to act as means to prop up the front a little.  These are usually called a "bail".  Some tube type items have a wire loop over it that helps keep the tube from jostling out.  This may be why the word "bail" is used and it would fit that usage.   Chuck Kinzer (old enough to have worked with vacuum tubes.  For those who speak real English, "valves".)   ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Bayer II To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]   There is a Gilbert # 14 Rectiformer, also missing the safety screen (seller calls it a "bale"), on eBay, with nice photos: "http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-14-150-Watt-Rectiformer-Transformer-EX-w-Box-Instruction-sheet-/281034104138?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item416ef01d4a". Looks better than mine! If it had the "bale", I'd be sorely tempted. For the record, I have no relationship, direct or indirect, with the seller. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20669	From: mrncartoon	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

Anyone know details or history of these? <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Vintage-40s-Unbuilt-cardstock-Ideal-Tiny-Town-Building-Kit-Gas-Station-B21-/230895067888?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20670	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

There are some more instructions sheets at HOseeker.   The following seems to be the same "Ideal Aeroplane & Supply Co Inc" and is dated 1939.   http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealroundhouse1939.jpg   Some freight car instructions are also shown on the site such as this rather elaborate crane:   http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/ideal150toncrane.jpg   And there is some other information like this advertisement that shows the gas station:   http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealadvertisementunknownpg2.jpg   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: mrncartoon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:27 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Ideal Tiny Town Models?   Anyone know details or history of these? <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Vintage-40s-Unbuilt-cardstock-Ideal-Tiny-Town-Building-Kit-Gas-Station-B21-/230895067888?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20671	From: Mike Christian	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Bail

Hi Guys,   I noticed all the chatter about the term “BAIL” as applied to vacuum tubes. Having worked in electronics since the mid-1960’s, I too was initiated into that world by working on equipment using “tubes”. Having said that, I had never heard the term bail before, so was a bit intrigued and did some Googling to find out more. Apparently Chuck Kinzer has it right as I found several references and even photos/drawings indicating the word bail was used to identify a captive device used to hold anything in place – not only vacuum tubes, but automotive distributor caps and a variety of other items. Here are a couple pertinent links:   http://tinyurl.com/cttkuud   Once on this page do a “FIND” (usually by holding the CONTROL key and pressing the F key simultaneously) and type in bail. You will then see the sentence:  “Each chassis has a metal hoop or bail that goes up and over the top of the top most tube and back down the other side to form a handle for inserting and removing the chassis.”   In this case the bail is used as a pull handle to remove a chassis.     http://tinyurl.com/cop6m37   This page is more railroady as it shows a railroad type lantern and the bail in this case seems to be used as a handle, or possibly to secure the glass part of the lantern (not shown in the photos).   I remember seeing many such devices hold vacuum tubes in their sockets, particularly in air craft and mobile equipment when I was a radio tech in the Air Force back in the 60’s.   Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20672	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

Ray, Thank you for the information and the kit descriptions. I appreciate all the help from everyone who replied. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Matt, > > Yes, just as John mentions, Selley did indeed make freight car kits. I > have a few myself, but just like Dennis' kits, mine are buried too. > > However, my Selley Catalog #4-4 (October 1957) shows six freight car kits > on page 10: > > K-101 (Bethlehem-built) Ore Car > > K-102 (Pullman Standard) Ore Car > > K-103 40' Low-Side Gondola > > K-104 40' Peaked End ("Round Top") High Side Gondola > > K-105 40' Square End High Side Gondola > > K-106 32' Two Bay Covered Hopper > > As has been pointed out, and which you probably know, they did produce > other car parts, like 32' composite-side and panel-side hopper sides, 32' and > longer (50'?) composite-side gondola sides, 40' and 50' flat car and 50' > depressed center flat car sides -- and many different car ends, so they could > have produced these cars later but only had the six I've outlined at that time. > > > Ray Wetzel > > > </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20673	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

sometimes non-modelers sell things they know nothing about, usually from a deceased relative's collection.  it could be a non-selley item in a selley box: i've seen similar things happen before.  george From: ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:41 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Question on Selley Freight Car Kits   I just purchased a collection of Selley Freight Car kits off eBay and while they haven't arrived, I began to question my own sanity after winning the auction. I don't recall Selley making any HO scale freight car kits. I have their two passenger car kits (in all cast metal!) but after searching both this list and the HO Seeker website, I was no wiser. There is no mention of any Selley freight car kits. And a Google search was even less productive! So my question to the group is - did Selley make freight car kits? Were they originally someone else's kits that were just repackaged under the Selley name? Or did Selley not continue them due to lack of interest? Just curious and figured that at least one of the wizards on this list might know. Once they arrive I will post photos if that is of interest. V/r Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20674	From: Walter Bayer	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Bail

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20675	From: Larry	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

Thank you. This was a new one to me and now I am finding all sorts of information on them. It's a wonder I had never come across them before now. Larry Miller III See my cartoons for 2012 here; <www.the-cartoonist.com>  No model train related cartoons this year, but some are still available from past years. From: "ckinzer@..." <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ideal Tiny Town Models? There are some more instructions sheets at HOseeker.   The following seems to be the same "Ideal Aeroplane & Supply Co Inc" and is dated 1939.   http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealroundhouse1939.jpg   Some freight car instructions are also shown on the site such as this rather elaborate crane:   http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/ideal150toncrane.jpg   And there is some other information like this advertisement that shows the gas station:   http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealadvertisementunknownpg2.jpg   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: mrncartoon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:27 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Ideal Tiny Town Models?   Anyone know details or history of these? <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Vintage-40s-Unbuilt-cardstock-Ideal-Tiny-Town-Building-Kit-Gas-Station-B21-/230895067888?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20676	From: Larry	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Bail

"vacuum tubes"? You mean those things that all the old b&w tv's and radios used to have back in the day? Remember when you had to let the set warm up a little before the picture came on? When I worked at a hardware store after graduating high school they still had a tube checker and a moderate selection of tubes that hardly got looked at back in the mid-1970's. My dad did early television repair and I saw the insides of many an electronic chassis using all manner these glowing and warm little glass wonders sticking up in odd places. Then came "solid state" and "six transistor" and they all quickly disappeared. Fond memories, but then this is a vintage group we have here. =^U^= Larry Miller III My latest Christmas cartoons are here: <www.the-cartoonist.com> From: Mike Christian <mikec@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Bail Hi Guys,   I noticed all the chatter about the term “BAIL” as applied to vacuum tubes. Having worked in electronics since the mid-1960’s, I too was initiated into that world by working on equipment using “tubes”. Having said that, I had never heard the term bail before, so was a bit intrigued and did some Googling to find out more. Apparently Chuck Kinzer has it right as I found several references and even photos/drawings indicating the word bail was used to identify a captive device used to hold anything in place – not only vacuum tubes, but automotive distributor caps and a variety of other items. Here are a couple pertinent links:   http://tinyurl.com/cttkuud   Once on this page do a “FIND” (usually by holding the CONTROL key and pressing the F key simultaneously) and type in bail. You will then see the sentence:  “Each chassis has a metal hoop or bail that goes up and over the top of the top most tube and back down the other side to form a handle for inserting and removing the chassis.”   In this case the bail is used as a pull handle to remove a chassis.     http://tinyurl.com/cop6m37   This page is more railroady as it shows a railroad type lantern and the bail in this case seems to be used as a handle, or possibly to secure the glass part of the lantern (not shown in the photos).   I remember seeing many such devices hold vacuum tubes in their sockets, particularly in air craft and mobile equipment when I was a radio tech in the Air Force back in the 60’s.   Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20677	From: David Burris	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??

Hi...you can buy the Kalmbach DVD Model Railroad Magazine collection on Amazon for about 23.00 cheaper than at Kalmbach...David From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 3:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Was given entire collection of MR & MRC: Usefulness??   >Probably an oddly written subject line. A good friend just gave me >his entire collection of Model Railroader and Railroad Model >Craftsmen magazines. ALL are in MR and MRC >binders<.... I've >only begun to haul them home, but the first MR binder was 1940 and >he says he thinks he has everything from the very first issue of >MR. Supposed to be every issue through the early 2000's. Ahhhh. Where to put them ?????????? All in very good condition; no mildew, etc. I have subscribed to both magazines occasionally in my life, but not for a good many years now. I am actually quite happy to have these in spite of the storage issues that come with them. I told my friend if his situation ever changed, he could have them back. I have heard that there is an all time index for MR now. Maybe all MR issues are available for sale on disk now too? I don't know what all I've heard about that. I also know that a lot of techniques, available parts, etc., etc., have changed through the years making a lot of the information in old magazines obsolete. Any comments on today's research value for these? I'm almost overwhelmed. Dennis

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20678	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

I am in the process of building the crane, and I have a bridge of theirs to build in the future. I use a mix of the original and more modern materials. Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > There are some more instructions sheets at HOseeker. > > The following seems to be the same "Ideal Aeroplane & Supply Co Inc" and is dated 1939. > > http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealroundhouse1939.jpg > > Some freight car instructions are also shown on the site such as this rather elaborate crane: > > http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/ideal150toncrane.jpg > > And there is some other information like this advertisement that shows the gas station: > > http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealadvertisementunknownpg2.jpg > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mrncartoon > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:27 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Ideal Tiny Town Models? > > > > Anyone know details or history of these? > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Vintage-40s-Unbuilt-cardstock-Ideal-Tiny-Town-Building-Kit-Gas-Station-B21-/230895067888?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20679	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

I have the Selley covered hopper (built by me 50+ years ago) in my own collection. No added weights needed for this car!   During my early 1970s conversations with Howell Day I purchased Red Ball parts  (cast using tooled metal molds/dies) l from him for inclusion certain of my own early kits.  He willingly sold them but stated amazement that I was buying them rather than copying (pirating) them "like others are doing. these days."  Selley was known (by other manufacturers if not hobbiests) for this practice at the time.  Their parts and kits were cheaper to buy because they were cheaper to make with recycle lead  rather than specific lead or zinc alloys ( needed  in casting machines) and low cost "development & tooling."  A great many of their freight car parts can be readily compared to other kit makers' castings of the 50s-60s to determine which were made from original tooling and which "identical" parts were lesser quality copies cast in rubber molds. Selley parts certainly would not have "zinc pest" (neither would Red Ball or Binkley parts made with lead/tin/antimony allow) but the casting method often provided warped parts that were a challenge to assemble. Note the gons and open hopper on particular. Selley was not alone in this practice and many Selley products were NOT pirated. Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse    Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it out today ! Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to hearing from you again.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20680	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

For those who might be interested: I have built 6 of the Ideal wreckers (lots of sentimental value as we have one done in 1943 by my late bro), and there is a preserved/restored example of the prototype at Steam Town (a national park) in Scranton, PA. Regarding the model, I have seen them in all sorts of states of partial completion on eBay as it is very difficult to build well as designed. It was probably state-of-the-art of the era in wood and card stock models. Some of the functions are actually operational, and the original designers apparently intended the internal take-up drum to work so as to keep the cable taut at the different heights of the boom. However, unless you are a friggin genius with modifications, that will not happen. The original pulleys do not work well-- among other things. I built mine with the booms at various levels and glued the cables (heavy black thread) in place so as to maintain a realistic appearance. The coupler areas do not lend themselves to contemporary couplers (Kaydee), so I simply cut the shafts of the Kaydees short and glued 'em in place. They work fine that way as I have one of the models operational on my layout. If you build the model with great care the balance beams slide out and the swinging boom, etc. will actually work. You do have to trim the embossed "sheet metal" to fit well on the wood frame, and so on. Nice to use modern materials though I always like to keep my built kits as close to the original as possible--function be damned if necessary.   Art W   In a message dated 12/17/2012 9:02:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nvrr49@... writes: I am in the process of building the crane, and I have a bridge of theirs to build in the future.  I use a mix of the original and more modern materials. Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > There are some more instructions sheets at HOseeker. > > The following seems to be the same "Ideal Aeroplane & Supply Co Inc" and is dated 1939. > > http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealroundhouse1939.jpg > > Some freight car instructions are also shown on the site such as this rather elaborate crane: > > http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/ideal150toncrane.jpg > > And there is some other information like this advertisement that shows the gas station: > > http://www.hoseeker.net/Ideal/idealadvertisementunknownpg2.jpg > > Chuck Kinzer > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: mrncartoon >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >   Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:27 AM >   Subject: [vintageHO] Ideal Tiny Town Models? > > >     >   Anyone know details or history of these? >   <http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Vintage-40s-Unbuilt-cardstock-Ideal-Tiny-Town-Building-Kit-Gas-Station-B21-/230895067888?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123> > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20681	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

Merle, Thank you for the insight! I knew that Selley had a lot of parts that looked to be very similar to ones that were available in brass or bronze, but didn't know the extent of that copying. That compares with their own product development efforts since the Selley Coach and Combine appear to be exclusively theirs with no relationship to other companies. Perhaps I am wrong on that and if so, please correct me. Again, thanks for helping shed light on this tiny bit of HO history. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote: > > I have the Selley covered hopper (built by me 50+ years ago) in my own collection. No added weights needed for this car! � During my early 1970s conversations with Howell Day I purchased Red Ball parts �(cast using tooled metal molds/dies) l from him for inclusion certain of my own early kits. �He willingly sold them but stated amazement that I was buying them rather than copying (pirating) them "like others are doing. these days." �Selley was known (by other manufacturers if not hobbiests) for this practice at the time. �Their parts and kits were cheaper to buy because they were cheaper to make with recycle lead �rather than specific lead or zinc alloys ( needed �in casting machines) and low cost "development & tooling." �A great many of their freight car parts can be readily compared to other kit makers' castings of the 50s-60s to determine which were made from original tooling and which "identical" parts were lesser quality copies cast in > rubber molds. Selley parts certainly would not have "zinc pest" (neither would Red Ball or Binkley parts made with lead/tin/antimony allow)�but the casting method often provided warped parts that were a challenge to assemble. Note the gons and open hopper on particular. Selley was not alone in this practice and many Selley products were NOT pirated. > Merle Rice > Model RR Warehouse� > � > Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it out today ! > Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to hearing from you again. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20682	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

Vacuum tubes operate by having a stream of freed (sorta like "boiled out by heat AND pulled out by high voltage) electrons flowing through the vacuum. They leave the (heated) cathode - metal and floe toward an + anode  of some type metal (or conductor) because of the high voltage that attracts them there .  In a picture tube the are "steered" to various spots in face of picture tube (to make spots of light that ARE the picture. They are "steered" to thousands of spots  by MAGNETIC FIELDS that are constantly changed and controlled  by the RC frequency signal being received from TV station.  In other types of applications they are steered toward a small piece of metal  ( "+ anode"- creating the DC for a DC train operation;  target to create X rays in X-Ray nachine etc.)   Since they WILL be steered by ANY stray magnetic field it is important to shield them from any magnetic fields that would interfere with their intended function.  A grounded metal mesh or screen "tube" outside the vacuum tube was commonly used for this purpose. It had nothing to do with holding or removing the vacuum tubes and everything to do with their proper operation. A suitable substitute can be made for the Gilbert control using fine wire mesh grounded to the metal chassis.    Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse ( Physics teacher & professor for 37 years)    Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. New NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it out today ! Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to hearing from you again.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20683	From: Glenn	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits

I concur. Back in the sixties Selley had a reputation for copying other mfrs'parts--O heard about it from John Armstrong when I was railroading with his group--I bought a lot of Selley parts since they made my PFC pay go a lot farther--There was a noticeable lack of sharpness to some. gj -----Original Message----- From: ablecynic Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 8:09 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Question on Selley Freight Car Kits Merle, Thank you for the insight! I knew that Selley had a lot of parts that looked to be very similar to ones that were available in brass or bronze, but didn't know the extent of that copying. That compares with their own product development efforts since the Selley Coach and Combine appear to be exclusively theirs with no relationship to other companies. Perhaps I am wrong on that and if so, please correct me. Again, thanks for helping shed light on this tiny bit of HO history. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote: > > I have the Selley covered hopper (built by me 50+ years ago) in my own > collection. No added weights needed for this car! � During my early > 1970s conversations with Howell Day I purchased Red Ball parts �(cast > using tooled metal molds/dies) l from him for inclusion certain of my own > early kits. �He willingly sold them but stated amazement that I was > buying them rather than copying (pirating) them "like others are doing. > these days." �Selley was known (by other manufacturers if not hobbiests) > for this practice at the time. �Their parts and kits were cheaper to buy > because they were cheaper to make with recycle lead �rather than > specific lead or zinc alloys ( needed �in casting machines) and low cost > "development & tooling." �A great many of their freight car parts can be > readily compared to other kit makers' castings of the 50s-60s to determine > which were made from original tooling and which "identical" parts were > lesser quality copies cast in > rubber molds. Selley parts certainly would not have "zinc pest" (neither > would Red Ball or Binkley parts made with lead/tin/antimony allow)�but > the casting method often provided warped parts that were a challenge to > assemble. Note the gons and open hopper on particular. Selley was not > alone in this practice and many Selley products were NOT pirated. > Merle Rice > Model RR Warehouse� > � > Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and > Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it > out today ! > Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to > hearing from you again. > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20684	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: Vintage Track and Power Packs [was "DC and DCC track wiring"]

Merle, I have no doubt that you are correct about the typical screens that shield certain of the tubes in tube radios and audio equipment. That is not the case with the Rectiformer. It will function equally well whether or not its screen is in place. There was never any wire mesh. If you look at any of the Rectiformers offered on eBay, you will see that the holes in the case, around the tube, for the wire screen are 90 degrees apart. The screen is made of 2 steel wires that, IIRC, cross at 90 degrees at the top and bend down toward the case. There are 2 circles of steel wire which holds the screen in shape, one near the top and one near the bottom. Each of the 4 legs of the screen is bent into an inward facing "S" curve to prevent the legs from being pushed too deeply into the case. The legs bear against the outside of the holes exerting mild pressure, but enough to hold the screen in place. On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Model RailRoad Warehouse <mrrwarehouse@...> wrote:   Vacuum tubes operate by having a stream of freed (sorta like "boiled out by heat AND pulled out by high voltage) electrons flowing through the vacuum. They leave the (heated) cathode - metal and floe toward an + anode  of some type metal (or conductor) because of the high voltage that attracts them there .  In a picture tube the are "steered" to various spots in face of picture tube (to make spots of light that ARE the picture. They are "steered" to thousands of spots  by MAGNETIC FIELDS that are constantly changed and controlled  by the RC frequency signal being received from TV station.  In other types of applications they are steered toward a small piece of metal  ( "+ anode"- creating the DC for a DC train operation;  target to create X rays in X-Ray nachine etc.)   Since they WILL be steered by ANY stray magnetic field it is important to shield them from any magnetic fields that would interfere with their intended function.  A grounded metal mesh or screen "tube" outside the vacuum tube was commonly used for this purpose. It had nothing to do with holding or removing the vacuum tubes and everything to do with their proper operation. A suitable substitute can be made for the Gilbert control using fine wire mesh grounded to the metal chassis.    Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse ( Physics teacher & professor for 37 years)    Home of the Troop Cars, GE Steeple Cabs. New NOW--Mann's Creek Log Buggies and Hoppers in HO and O are on our website, www.mrrwarehouse.com ! Check it out today ! Thanks for your interest in Model Railroad Warehouse. We look forward to hearing from you again. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20685	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Selley HO Kit Update

The kits I purchased off eBay arrived and since they are only two basic styles I have only opened one for photographing. The one I opened was an ore car kit, K-102. I have put the photos in a file folder called Selley HO Kits. The link is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/601056440/pic/list These kits are truly mint, I guess I was lucky to get them. The one I openend had clearly never been opened since it was packed at the factory and as you can see in the photos, the metal is as bright and shiny as the day it was cast. I would be curious to know if this is one that was copied from another manufacturer. There are no trucks, but the kit has a number of detail parts in small packages that include, of all things, some white-metal case X2-F (mis-named NMRA) couplers. This is a fascinating kit from another era of technology, but despite the limitations, the parts are well detailed and remarkably thin (and fragile!) How these would have been assembled in the pre-ACC era is beyond me. And again, I would like to thank all of you who helped with information and sharing. This is a great group of people! Matt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20686	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/17/2012
Subject: Re: DC and DCC track wiring

I admire both your concept and your execution of it. Which reminds me, now I need to sell off a bundle of 12 vt. GOW's and some 1.5vt GOR's I've been holding onto. Mike Bauers On Dec 14, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Mike (and all), > > I once considered that. However, one of my goals of my layout is to use very little technology that would not have existed in 1950. Originally was to be 1945, but the transistor came out in 1947 or 1948. (I remember Doc in Back to the Future 3 said 1946, someone told me he was off a year or two). > > Generally, the 12V bulbs I use run at half voltage or slightly less, and are only lit when appropriate. > > Frankly, I feel a little "dirty" at times for using a CMI SuperBlue for train power, but sort of make up for that by use of old Lionel transformers supplying AC to signals and switch machines. > > Only other "cheat" is Bachmann EZ track. Plastic existed in 1950, of course, as did the concept of roadbed track. Lionel made OO roadbed track in 1938! Base was Bakelite, though. > > On the other hand, perhaps in the future, as I've been easing up, somewhat, on this "rule". I do enjoy the challenge of traditional bulbs, and designing a building to look realistic, but be servicable in the event of a bulb burnout. > > Thanks, > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Fri, 12/14/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > > Steve, > > Along the lines of interior lighting...... > > Well, let me tell you that I'm enjoying buying LEDs in packs like 3mm/5mm domes at 100 for under $5, and the smaller 1x3mm flats at about 300 for under $9. > > The warm-whites look like miniature incandescent lighting and you can get those 1x3mm pre wired on a tape that trims to 3-4 of them at the breaks. The entire string of them are on a very thin copper strip and the whole thing runs on native 12 volts. > > I just bought a lifetime supply of the separate 1x3mm warm-whites at 1000 for $19.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20687	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

Art's work is FABULOUS on these old cranes. Art, are your pictures still on the web somewhere? Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: For those who might be interested: I have built 6 of the Ideal wreckers (lots of sentimental value as we have one done in 1943 by my late bro), and there is a preserved/restored example of the prototype at Steam Town (a national park) in Scranton, PA. Regarding the model, I have seen them in all sorts of states of partial completion on eBay as it is very difficult to build well as designed. It was probably state-of-the-art of the era in wood and card stock models. Some of the functions are actually operational, and the original designers apparently intended the internal take-up drum to work so as to keep the cable taut at the different heights of the boom. However, unless you are a friggin genius with modifications, that will not happen. The original pulleys do not work well-- among other things. I built mine with the booms at various levels and glued the cables (heavy black thread) in place so as to maintain a realistic appearance. The coupler areas do not lend themselves to contemporary couplers (Kaydee), so I simply cut the shafts of the Kaydees short and glued 'em in place. They work fine that way as I have one of the models operational on my layout. If you build the model with great care the balance beams slide out and the swinging boom, etc. will actually work. You do have to trim the embossed "sheet metal" to fit well on the wood frame, and so on. Nice to use modern materials though I always like to keep my built kits as close to the original as possible--function be damned if necessary. Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20688	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

Attachments : wrecker 4-20688.JPG wrecker 3-20688.JPG wrecker 2-20688.JPG Kent, I've done so many vintage models that I long ago gave up putting them on the web. I will attach a few files here of one of the Ideal wreckers for those interested.   Art W   In a message dated 12/18/2012 7:24:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nvrr49@... writes: Art's work is FABULOUS on these old cranes. Art, are your pictures still on the web somewhere? Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: For those who might be interested: I have built 6 of the Ideal wreckers  (lots of sentimental value as we have one done in 1943 by my late bro), and  there is a preserved/restored example of the prototype at Steam Town (a national  park) in Scranton, PA. Regarding the model, I have seen them in all sorts  of states of partial completion on eBay as it is very difficult to  build well as designed. It was probably state-of-the-art of the era in wood and  card stock models. Some of the functions are actually  operational, and the original designers apparently intended the internal  take-up drum to work so as to keep the cable taut at the different heights of  the boom. However, unless you are a friggin genius with modifications, that will  not happen. The original pulleys do not work well-- among other  things. I built mine with the booms at various levels and glued the cables  (heavy black thread) in place so as to maintain a realistic appearance. The  coupler areas do not lend themselves to contemporary couplers (Kaydee), so I  simply cut the shafts of the Kaydees short and glued 'em in place. They work  fine that way as I have one of the models operational on my layout. If you build  the model with great care the balance beams slide out and the swinging boom,  etc. will actually work. You do have to trim the embossed "sheet metal" to fit  well on the wood frame, and so on. Nice to use modern materials though I  always like to keep my built kits as close to the original as possible--function  be damned if necessary.   Art W ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20689	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

By the way, there were no decals offered, so the builder was expected to cut out the lettering and glue it on the model. You can see how relatively primitive models of that era often were--no perfect plastics or laser cut materials. Back in '43 my bro only had scissors, a needle, small pliers, couple of razor blades, and the kind of glue that you made out of water and a white powder that came in a little envelope (the wrecker shown in the attachments had the advantage of contemporary tools and an old timer's experience). But there is something personally significant about a nice, hand-built model that is less perfect than today's factory product costing many bucks. But don't get me started--I tend to start editorializing on the ol' soapbox!   Art W   In a message dated 12/18/2012 7:24:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nvrr49@... writes: Art's work is FABULOUS on these old cranes. Art, are your pictures still on the web somewhere? Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: For those who might be interested: I have built 6 of the Ideal wreckers  (lots of sentimental value as we have one done in 1943 by my late bro), and  there is a preserved/restored example of the prototype at Steam Town (a national  park) in Scranton, PA. Regarding the model, I have seen them in all sorts  of states of partial completion on eBay as it is very difficult to  build well as designed. It was probably state-of-the-art of the era in wood and  card stock models. Some of the functions are actually  operational, and the original designers apparently intended the internal  take-up drum to work so as to keep the cable taut at the different heights of  the boom. However, unless you are a friggin genius with modifications, that will  not happen. The original pulleys do not work well-- among other  things. I built mine with the booms at various levels and glued the cables  (heavy black thread) in place so as to maintain a realistic appearance. The  coupler areas do not lend themselves to contemporary couplers (Kaydee), so I  simply cut the shafts of the Kaydees short and glued 'em in place. They work  fine that way as I have one of the models operational on my layout. If you build  the model with great care the balance beams slide out and the swinging boom,  etc. will actually work. You do have to trim the embossed "sheet metal" to fit  well on the wood frame, and so on. Nice to use modern materials though I  always like to keep my built kits as close to the original as possible--function  be damned if necessary.   Art W ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20690	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models? [3 Attachments]

I might add that when I say there were no decals offered, I meant for the Ideal wrecker. I do have a couple of sets of Bucyrus Erie decals that I got from Champ before they went out of business. And I do have one extra Ideal wrecker left of the 6 that I built that's available to a buyer. It probably has a few minor admissions or imperfections as it was probably started by someone else and then offered on eBay, and I felt sorry for it so bought it to finish it...   In a message dated 12/18/2012 7:37:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: [Attachment(s) from luvprr@... included below] Kent, I've done so many vintage models that I long ago gave up putting them on the web. I will attach a few files here of one of the Ideal wreckers for those interested.   Art W   In a message dated 12/18/2012 7:24:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nvrr49@... writes: Art's work is FABULOUS on these old cranes. Art, are your pictures still on the web somewhere? Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: For those who might be interested: I have built 6 of the Ideal wreckers  (lots of sentimental value as we have one done in 1943 by my late bro), and  there is a preserved/restored example of the prototype at Steam Town (a national  park) in Scranton, PA. Regarding the model, I have seen them in all sorts  of states of partial completion on eBay as it is very difficult to  build well as designed. It was probably state-of-the-art of the era in wood and  card stock models. Some of the functions are actually  operational, and the original designers apparently intended the internal  take-up drum to work so as to keep the cable taut at the different heights of  the boom. However, unless you are a friggin genius with modifications, that will  not happen. The original pulleys do not work well-- among other  things. I built mine with the booms at various levels and glued the cables  (heavy black thread) in place so as to maintain a realistic appearance. The  coupler areas do not lend themselves to contemporary couplers (Kaydee), so I  simply cut the shafts of the Kaydees short and glued 'em in place. They work  fine that way as I have one of the models operational on my layout. If you build  the model with great care the balance beams slide out and the swinging boom,  etc. will actually work. You do have to trim the embossed "sheet metal" to fit  well on the wood frame, and so on. Nice to use modern materials though I  always like to keep my built kits as close to the original as possible--function  be damned if necessary.   Art W ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20691	From: John Webster	Date: 12/19/2012
Subject: Re: Ideal Tiny Town Models?

I remember seeing one of those crane cars unbuilt in the box about 30 years ago. Most of the kit, including the crane boom parts was die cut heavy paper. The larger structures came with framing timbers about 1/4" square. One of their stations still stands on a layout that our group visits every month, it photographs remarkably well.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20692	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/20/2012
Subject: No trains

On 12/20/2012 5:40 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Wish everyone Happy Holidays. Not doing anything at all buy > lying around. Wish everyone a Healthy New Year. First time since 1958 > haven't bought a train for Christmas. Old age setting in. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20693	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/21/2012
Subject: Re: No trains

Jim, That sounds sad in many ways. On the other hand, I've been slowing up a bit in purchases lately. Focusing on working with what I have. Got hundreds of pieces that are awaiting restoration or repairs. Much of my recent work has been done because it helps my overall health. My seizures are tripped by high stress for long periods of time. I also have PTSD. Not a good combination at all. Working on my layout or restoring old trains keeps my stress low, and also seems to reduce PTSD related problems too. Somehow, it seems like a door is closing. I've enjoyed all of your postings about restoration projects, and am always in awe of the photos of your collection. Merry Christmas, -Steve  Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/20/12, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] No trains To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012, 4:42 PM   On 12/20/2012 5:40 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Wish everyone Happy Holidays. Not doing anything at all buy > lying around. Wish everyone a Healthy New Year. First time since 1958 > haven't bought a train for Christmas. Old age setting in. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20694	From: Richard Carbo	Date: 12/21/2012
Subject: Re: No trains

Happy Holidays to all. Richard Carbo   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:42 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] No trains     On 12/20/2012 5:40 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Wish everyone Happy Holidays. Not doing anything at all buy > lying around. Wish everyone a Healthy New Year. First time since 1958 > haven't bought a train for Christmas. Old age setting in. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20695	From: rxensen	Date: 12/23/2012
Subject: Misc items

I have a chassis for a F unit made by Hobbytown. The motor is off, I think I have it. also a brass short SP tender. Photos can be taken. Any one interested contact me off list. Ron Christensen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20696	From: Jeff	Date: 12/23/2012
Subject: Re: No trains

If your vintage HO train makes you happy at this time of year, no need to buy a new one! My North Pole Express and North Pole & Southern trains are running merrily! Jeff Cornelius Augusta County RR Museum --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 12/20/2012 5:40 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > Wish everyone Happy Holidays. Not doing anything at all buy > > lying around. Wish everyone a Healthy New Year. First time since 1958 > > haven't bought a train for Christmas. Old age setting in. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20697	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Re: Misc items

Hi Ron, Send me photos and specific at bitlerisvj@... Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: rxensen@... Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:08:13 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Misc items   I have a chassis for a F unit made by Hobbytown. The motor is off, I think I have it. also a brass short SP tender. Photos can be taken. Any one interested contact me off list. Ron Christensen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20698	From: rxensen	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Re: Misc items

It looks like they were sold to the first man up. I thinning out, most things are used, so I won't ask a big price. I'll have some more after Xmas It will be a Metal FM switcher shell and a Fleischmann A unit, followed by a few more old things, I'll not bother the group so if old things interest you contact me off list. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Ron, > Send me photos and specific at > bitlerisvj@... > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: rxensen@... > Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:08:13 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Misc items > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a chassis for a F unit made by Hobbytown. The motor is off, I think I have it. > > also a brass short SP tender. Photos can be taken. > > Any one interested contact me off list. > > Ron Christensen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20699	From: trolleynut	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Remembering [way off topic]

http://iwvpa.net/marksm/a-soldie.php

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20700	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2012
Subject: Merry Christmas

Just want to take a moment to wish Everyone a very merry and Blessed Christmas and the best for the New Year. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20701	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas

Don,   A very Merry Christmas to you and to all the group members.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 5:43 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Merry Christmas     Just want to take a moment to wish Everyone a very merry and Blessed Christmas and the best for the New Year. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20702	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Merry Christmas(On Topic - Christmas Is Vintage)

SAme backatcha Don, and:   Merry Christmas Just want to take a moment to wish Everyone a very merry and Blessed Christmas and the best for the New Year.   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20703	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas

Happy Holidays Don, and to All. Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20704	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas all! Christmas is on topic here: Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ, and according to the Bible, in Isaiah 6:1, it does state that Christ is a model railroader (And even He can't find a place big enough for them!): "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple." Given that this was about 2000 years ago, I'd say that's the ultimate in vintage trains! I know the group prohibits discussion of religion in itself, but I figure this is on topic! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 12/24/12, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Merry Christmas To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 24, 2012, 5:42 PM   Just want to take a moment to wish Everyone a very merry and Blessed Christmas and the best for the New Year. Don -- Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ Listowner: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20705	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Another Xmas story

Not vintage HO, but still vintage I'll bet you never heard this one. The Shepherd - Frederick Forsyth - read by Alan Maitland from CBC Radio > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2_bLEqmBi0 > [ I used keepvid.com to save it, and save audio only with quicktime to save the sound alone ... Mac user.....] Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20706	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Another Xmas story

Mike, I just listened to this. Very enjoyable! Now to download it from YouTube. I'm using a program called Orbit, which seems to do a fairly good job. Thanks, -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 12/25/12, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Another Xmas story To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2012, 7:01 PM   Not vintage HO, but still vintage I'll bet you never heard this one. The Shepherd - Frederick Forsyth - read by Alan Maitland from CBC Radio > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2_bLEqmBi0 > [ I used keepvid.com to save it, and save audio only with quicktime to save the sound alone ... Mac user.....] Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20707	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Gilbert Hudson Tenders

Attachments : 100_0325 (Large).JPG 100_0324 (Large).JPG 100_0322 (Large).JPG All, I have a number of Gilbert HO Hudsons, one is a prewar early version with an AC motor (Though this has had a DC field replacing the AC field installed, and has been rewired), one was a "Frankenloco" that has a Varney V1 motor and unknown brass frame under the loco, and I have a few postwar versions too. The photos attached show something odd. The tender with the number on the deck is an AC powered version. Also had a Milwaukee logo on the side, and came from a friend in the Boy Scouts, whose long time lady friend gave this to him to give to me. It, along with some other prewar cars, belonged to her father. The other tender is a standard, I believe prewar, issue. Heavily scratched up on the sides, tonight I plan to strip the remaining paint (Which is not a whole lot) and prime it for a fresh coat of paint. Notice the deck on  this one. Something is missing. The Gilbert labeling. Does not appear to been ground or filed off either. In person, you can tell the casting was missing the lettering. I can see some side to side scuffing, but I doubt this was from removing the letting, mostly because of how close it comes to the edge of the deck where that rim is. The rim is largely undamaged, except for the right side of the tender, where it is damaged on the outside, and this does not appear to be damage from a file or grinder tool either. Also, the inside of this tender is unpainted metal, while my  other one is black inside too. What gives? I thought ALL Gilbert hudson tenders had the deck stamping. This appears almost to be an exception. Or someone was really, really good at removing it and painting the deck again... Thanks -Steve Neubaum

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 20708	From: John Hagen	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments]

Steve,   If the tender in question is from the Frankenhudson I believe the raised lettering was indeed filed, scraped and sanded off. Elsewise why would there be such heavy scratching on the tender deck? The Frankenhudson was an obvious attempt at “improving the breed” to make it more compatible with the better HO scale steamers of the time. Installing the brass frame and V2 motor would not have been a task to be taken upon lightly and I rather doubt anyone so doing such modifications would have wanted American Flyer by A. C. Gilbert emblazoned on the tender deck. The lack of paint on the insides and the loss of paint on the sides would appear to confirm this. I would suggest the tender shell was immersed in the dreaded “dip” to strip the paint and the top side, being largely untouched during normal handling during operation retained its new paint much better than its oft-fingered sides. The fact that the ridge around the edge has not been damaged by the removal process is not surprising as the raised letters was not close the this ridge. The right side hatch hinge detail does look to be somewhat rounded in the photos and this would be consistent as there is pronounced filing, scraping and sanding scratching directly adjacent to it.   I would be interested in seeing photos of the whole Frankenhudson. It sounds kinda interesting.   John Hagen   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 1:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments]     [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I have a number of Gilbert HO Hudsons, one is a prewar early version with an AC motor (Though this has had a DC field replacing the AC field installed, and has been rewired), one was a "Frankenloco" that has a Varney V1 motor and unknown brass frame under the loco, and I have a few postwar versions too. The photos attached show something odd. The tender with the number on the deck is an AC powered version. Also had a Milwaukee logo on the side, and came from a friend in the Boy Scouts, whose long time lady friend gave this to him to give to me. It, along with some other prewar cars, belonged to her father. The other tender is a standard, I believe prewar, issue. Heavily scratched up on the sides, tonight I plan to strip the remaining paint (Which is not a whole lot) and prime it for a fresh coat of paint. Notice the deck on  this one. Something is missing. The Gilbert labeling. Does not appear to been ground or filed off either. In person, you can tell the casting was missing the lettering. I can see some side to side scuffing, but I doubt this was from removing the letting, mostly because of how close it comes to the edge of the deck where that rim is. The rim is largely undamaged, except for the right side of the tender, where it is damaged on the outside, and this does not appear to be damage from a file or grinder tool either. Also, the inside of this tender is unpainted metal, while my  other one is black inside too. What gives? I thought ALL Gilbert hudson tenders had the deck stamping. This appears almost to be an exception. Or someone was really, really good at removing it and painting the deck again... Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20709	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders

I notice that the tender without lettering also has some additional detail in the form of three little bumps on the surface of the sill at the end of the tender.  Is this something somehow added?  That might help to confirm customizing.   Regarding removing the lettering:  I believe I could easily remove that without doing further harm.  So I would find that to be a real, and most likely, possibility.   I suggest very closely scrutining the castings to determine if they in fact came from the same mold in all respects other than the lettering.   Another possibility is that the mold started without lettering and it was later added, or vice versa.  If the lettering was later added, it could have just been put into the existing mold by the tool and die maker.  But if removed, there would probably have been an area removed and a blank insert installed which would tend to leave some small hint of rectangle unless the work was done more exquisitely than usual.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders   Steve, If the tender in question is from the Frankenhudson I believe the raised lettering was indeed filed, scraped and sanded off. Elsewise why would there be such heavy scratching on the tender deck? The Frankenhudson was an obvious attempt at “improving the breed” to make it more compatible with the better HO scale steamers of the time. Installing the brass frame and V2 motor would not have been a task to be taken upon lightly and I rather doubt anyone so doing such modifications would have wanted American Flyer by A. C. Gilbert emblazoned on the tender deck. The lack of paint on the insides and the loss of paint on the sides would appear to confirm this. I would suggest the tender shell was immersed in the dreaded “dip” to strip the paint and the top side, being largely untouched during normal handling during operation retained its new paint much better than its oft-fingered sides. The fact that the ridge around the edge has not been damaged by the removal process is not surprising as the raised letters was not close the this ridge. The right side hatch hinge detail does look to be somewhat rounded in the photos and this would be consistent as there is pronounced filing, scraping and sanding scratching directly adjacent to it. I would be interested in seeing photos of the whole Frankenhudson. It sounds kinda interesting. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 1:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I have a number of Gilbert HO Hudsons, one is a prewar early version with an AC motor (Though this has had a DC field replacing the AC field installed, and has been rewired), one was a "Frankenloco" that has a Varney V1 motor and unknown brass frame under the loco, and I have a few postwar versions too. The photos attached show something odd. The tender with the number on the deck is an AC powered version. Also had a Milwaukee logo on the side, and came from a friend in the Boy Scouts, whose long time lady friend gave this to him to give to me. It, along with some other prewar cars, belonged to her father. The other tender is a standard, I believe prewar, issue. Heavily scratched up on the sides, tonight I plan to strip the remaining paint (Which is not a whole lot) and prime it for a fresh coat of paint. Notice the deck on  this one. Something is missing. The Gilbert labeling. Does not appear to been ground or filed off either. In person, you can tell the casting was missing the lettering. I can see some side to side scuffing, but I doubt this was from removing the letting, mostly because of how close it comes to the edge of the deck where that rim is. The rim is largely undamaged, except for the right side of the tender, where it is damaged on the outside, and this does not appear to be damage from a file or grinder tool either. Also, the inside of this tender is unpainted metal, while my  other one is black inside too. What gives? I thought ALL Gilbert hudson tenders had the deck stamping. This appears almost to be an exception. Or someone was really, really good at removing it and painting the deck again... Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20710	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders

At the end of the tender, in the center of the end sill, there is indeed a small black bump. This is actually a broken screw; A coupler was added to this: A Megow stamped metal coupler. Not surprising, as Franken loco came in a lot of equipment, mostly Megows cars, and also the tender to a Knapp 4-8-2, which also had a Megows coupler soldered to the talgo coupler tongue. I tried to unscrew the screw holding the Megow's coupler in, but the head broke off instead. The boiler to Frankenhudson is really crudely done. I doubt that whoever did all the custom work (Which was either never finished, or the drive rods on the driver wheels was really jerry-rigged; Would be surprised if this thing ever really ran!), would have been able to remove the lettering with so little evidence of doing so. Looking for that boiler in my boxes, will post pics when I find it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 12/26/12, ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> wrote: From: ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 12:12 PM   I notice that the tender without lettering also has some additional detail in the form of three little bumps on the surface of the sill at the end of the tender.  Is this something somehow added?  That might help to confirm customizing.   Regarding removing the lettering:  I believe I could easily remove that without doing further harm.  So I would find that to be a real, and most likely, possibility.   I suggest very closely scrutining the castings to determine if they in fact came from the same mold in all respects other than the lettering.   Another possibility is that the mold started without lettering and it was later added, or vice versa.  If the lettering was later added, it could have just been put into the existing mold by the tool and die maker.  But if removed, there would probably have been an area removed and a blank insert installed which would tend to leave some small hint of rectangle unless the work was done more exquisitely than usual.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders   Steve, If the tender in question is from the Frankenhudson I believe the raised lettering was indeed filed, scraped and sanded off. Elsewise why would there be such heavy scratching on the tender deck? The Frankenhudson was an obvious attempt at “improving the breed” to make it more compatible with the better HO scale steamers of the time. Installing the brass frame and V2 motor would not have been a task to be taken upon lightly and I rather doubt anyone so doing such modifications would have wanted American Flyer by A. C. Gilbert emblazoned on the tender deck. The lack of paint on the insides and the loss of paint on the sides would appear to confirm this. I would suggest the tender shell was immersed in the dreaded “dip” to strip the paint and the top side, being largely untouched during normal handling during operation retained its new paint much better than its oft-fingered sides. The fact that the ridge around the edge has not been damaged by the removal process is not surprising as the raised letters was not close the this ridge. The right side hatch hinge detail does look to be somewhat rounded in the photos and this would be consistent as there is pronounced filing, scraping and sanding scratching directly adjacent to it. I would be interested in seeing photos of the whole Frankenhudson. It sounds kinda interesting. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 1:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I have a number of Gilbert HO Hudsons, one is a prewar early version with an AC motor (Though this has had a DC field replacing the AC field installed, and has been rewired), one was a "Frankenloco" that has a Varney V1 motor and unknown brass frame under the loco, and I have a few postwar versions too. The photos attached show something odd. The tender with the number on the deck is an AC powered version. Also had a Milwaukee logo on the side, and came from a friend in the Boy Scouts, whose long time lady friend gave this to him to give to me. It, along with some other prewar cars, belonged to her father. The other tender is a standard, I believe prewar, issue. Heavily scratched up on the sides, tonight I plan to strip the remaining paint (Which is not a whole lot) and prime it for a fresh coat of paint. Notice the deck on  this one. Something is missing. The Gilbert labeling. Does not appear to been ground or filed off either. In person, you can tell the casting was missing the lettering. I can see some side to side scuffing, but I doubt this was from removing the letting, mostly because of how close it comes to the edge of the deck where that rim is. The rim is largely undamaged, except for the right side of the tender, where it is damaged on the outside, and this does not appear to be damage from a file or grinder tool either. Also, the inside of this tender is unpainted metal, while my  other one is black inside too. What gives? I thought ALL Gilbert hudson tenders had the deck stamping. This appears almost to be an exception. Or someone was really, really good at removing it and painting the deck again... Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20711	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders

 I don't think you are describing what I was describing.  On the tenders, follow the ladder on the rear down to the flat horizontal surface.  It is on that surface that there are three clear raised detail items cast in where the lettered one has a completely smooth surface.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders   At the end of the tender, in the center of the end sill, there is indeed a small black bump. This is actually a broken screw; A coupler was added to this: A Megow stamped metal coupler. Not surprising, as Franken loco came in a lot of equipment, mostly Megows cars, and also the tender to a Knapp 4-8-2, which also had a Megows coupler soldered to the talgo coupler tongue. I tried to unscrew the screw holding the Megow's coupler in, but the head broke off instead. The boiler to Frankenhudson is really crudely done. I doubt that whoever did all the custom work (Which was either never finished, or the drive rods on the driver wheels was really jerry-rigged; Would be surprised if this thing ever really ran!), would have been able to remove the lettering with so little evidence of doing so. Looking for that boiler in my boxes, will post pics when I find it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 12/26/12, ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> wrote: From: ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 12:12 PM   I notice that the tender without lettering also has some additional detail in the form of three little bumps on the surface of the sill at the end of the tender.  Is this something somehow added?  That might help to confirm customizing.   Regarding removing the lettering:  I believe I could easily remove that without doing further harm.  So I would find that to be a real, and most likely, possibility.   I suggest very closely scrutining the castings to determine if they in fact came from the same mold in all respects other than the lettering.   Another possibility is that the mold started without lettering and it was later added, or vice versa.  If the lettering was later added, it could have just been put into the existing mold by the tool and die maker.  But if removed, there would probably have been an area removed and a blank insert installed which would tend to leave some small hint of rectangle unless the work was done more exquisitely than usual.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders   Steve, If the tender in question is from the Frankenhudson I believe the raised lettering was indeed filed, scraped and sanded off. Elsewise why would there be such heavy scratching on the tender deck? The Frankenhudson was an obvious attempt at “improving the breed” to make it more compatible with the better HO scale steamers of the time. Installing the brass frame and V2 motor would not have been a task to be taken upon lightly and I rather doubt anyone so doing such modifications would have wanted American Flyer by A. C. Gilbert emblazoned on the tender deck. The lack of paint on the insides and the loss of paint on the sides would appear to confirm this. I would suggest the tender shell was immersed in the dreaded “dip” to strip the paint and the top side, being largely untouched during normal handling during operation retained its new paint much better than its oft-fingered sides. The fact that the ridge around the edge has not been damaged by the removal process is not surprising as the raised letters was not close the this ridge. The right side hatch hinge detail does look to be somewhat rounded in the photos and this would be consistent as there is pronounced filing, scraping and sanding scratching directly adjacent to it. I would be interested in seeing photos of the whole Frankenhudson. It sounds kinda interesting. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 1:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I have a number of Gilbert HO Hudsons, one is a prewar early version with an AC motor (Though this has had a DC field replacing the AC field installed, and has been rewired), one was a "Frankenloco" that has a Varney V1 motor and unknown brass frame under the loco, and I have a few postwar versions too. The photos attached show something odd. The tender with the number on the deck is an AC powered version. Also had a Milwaukee logo on the side, and came from a friend in the Boy Scouts, whose long time lady friend gave this to him to give to me. It, along with some other prewar cars, belonged to her father. The other tender is a standard, I believe prewar, issue. Heavily scratched up on the sides, tonight I plan to strip the remaining paint (Which is not a whole lot) and prime it for a fresh coat of paint. Notice the deck on  this one. Something is missing. The Gilbert labeling. Does not appear to been ground or filed off either. In person, you can tell the casting was missing the lettering. I can see some side to side scuffing, but I doubt this was from removing the letting, mostly because of how close it comes to the edge of the deck where that rim is. The rim is largely undamaged, except for the right side of the tender, where it is damaged on the outside, and this does not appear to be damage from a file or grinder tool either. Also, the inside of this tender is unpainted metal, while my  other one is black inside too. What gives? I thought ALL Gilbert hudson tenders had the deck stamping. This appears almost to be an exception. Or someone was really, really good at removing it and painting the deck again... Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20712	From: gary pardue	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hudson Tenders

Guys, I inherited one of these from a freind who probably got it in the late 50's as a child. It was in pieces and several pieces missing andI was fortunate enought to order these. I have it all back together and is now packed away till I start on my layout. I assume mine is a DC model. Does anyone know if a late model is AC or DC. It ran on a DC test track. Thanks for any help. Gary --- On Wed, 12/26/12, ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> wrote: From: ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 4:44 PM    I don't think you are describing what I was describing.  On the tenders, follow the ladder on the rear down to the flat horizontal surface.  It is on that surface that there are three clear raised detail items cast in where the lettered one has a completely smooth surface.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders   At the end of the tender, in the center of the end sill, there is indeed a small black bump. This is actually a broken screw; A coupler was added to this: A Megow stamped metal coupler. Not surprising, as Franken loco came in a lot of equipment, mostly Megows cars, and also the tender to a Knapp 4-8-2, which also had a Megows coupler soldered to the talgo coupler tongue. I tried to unscrew the screw holding the Megow's coupler in, but the head broke off instead. The boiler to Frankenhudson is really crudely done. I doubt that whoever did all the custom work (Which was either never finished, or the drive rods on the driver wheels was really jerry-rigged; Would be surprised if this thing ever really ran!), would have been able to remove the lettering with so little evidence of doing so. Looking for that boiler in my boxes, will post pics when I find it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 12/26/12, ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> wrote: From: ckinzer@... <ckinzer@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 12:12 PM   I notice that the tender without lettering also has some additional detail in the form of three little bumps on the surface of the sill at the end of the tender.  Is this something somehow added?  That might help to confirm customizing.   Regarding removing the lettering:  I believe I could easily remove that without doing further harm.  So I would find that to be a real, and most likely, possibility.   I suggest very closely scrutining the castings to determine if they in fact came from the same mold in all respects other than the lettering.   Another possibility is that the mold started without lettering and it was later added, or vice versa.  If the lettering was later added, it could have just been put into the existing mold by the tool and die maker.  But if removed, there would probably have been an area removed and a blank insert installed which would tend to leave some small hint of rectangle unless the work was done more exquisitely than usual.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hagen To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders   Steve, If the tender in question is from the Frankenhudson I believe the raised lettering was indeed filed, scraped and sanded off. Elsewise why would there be such heavy scratching on the tender deck? The Frankenhudson was an obvious attempt at “improving the breed” to make it more compatible with the better HO scale steamers of the time. Installing the brass frame and V2 motor would not have been a task to be taken upon lightly and I rather doubt anyone so doing such modifications would have wanted American Flyer by A. C. Gilbert emblazoned on the tender deck. The lack of paint on the insides and the loss of paint on the sides would appear to confirm this. I would suggest the tender shell was immersed in the dreaded “dip” to strip the paint and the top side, being largely untouched during normal handling during operation retained its new paint much better than its oft-fingered sides. The fact that the ridge around the edge has not been damaged by the removal process is not surprising as the raised letters was not close the this ridge. The right side hatch hinge detail does look to be somewhat rounded in the photos and this would be consistent as there is pronounced filing, scraping and sanding scratching directly adjacent to it. I would be interested in seeing photos of the whole Frankenhudson. It sounds kinda interesting. John Hagen From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Neubaum Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 1:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert Hudson Tenders [3 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Stephen Neubaum included below] All, I have a number of Gilbert HO Hudsons, one is a prewar early version with an AC motor (Though this has had a DC field replacing the AC field installed, and has been rewired), one was a "Frankenloco" that has a Varney V1 motor and unknown brass frame under the loco, and I have a few postwar versions too. The photos attached show something odd. The tender with the number on the deck is an AC powered version. Also had a Milwaukee logo on the side, and came from a friend in the Boy Scouts, whose long time lady friend gave this to him to give to me. It, along with some other prewar cars, belonged to her father. The other tender is a standard, I believe prewar, issue. Heavily scratched up on the sides, tonight I plan to strip the remaining paint (Which is not a whole lot) and prime it for a fresh coat of paint. Notice the deck on  this one. Something is missing. The Gilbert labeling. Does not appear to been ground or filed off either. In person, you can tell the casting was missing the lettering. I can see some side to side scuffing, but I doubt this was from removing the letting, mostly because of how close it comes to the edge of the deck where that rim is. The rim is largely undamaged, except for the right side of the tender, where it is damaged on the outside, and this does not appear to be damage from a file or grinder tool either. Also, the inside of this tender is unpainted metal, while my  other one is black inside too. What gives? I thought ALL Gilbert hudson tenders had the deck stamping. This appears almost to be an exception. Or someone was really, really good at removing it and painting the deck again... Thanks -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20713	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Vintage shells and parts for sale on Ebay

Hey folks I thought someone might be interested in these vintage items.  I have dealt with this lady and she is quite reputable.  Check and see the other vintage items she has for sale.  Looks like the prices are reasonable if there is something you can use. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Railroad-lot-K-Varney-Missouri-Pacific-shell-Rivarossi-new-pieces-Santa-Fe-/271123854292?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f203db3d4 Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20714	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)

All, As requested, here are some pics of the Gilbert Frankenhudson. I'm rethinking my statement on the less-than-steller craftsmanship. Actually, could be more than one person worked on it. Looking closer, the boiler is not one casting including the cab. The cab, firebox, and grate are indeed Gilbert (Though someone went to the effort to remove the horizontal cab windowpane framework and repaint it all as Gilbert would have, with the red outer frame. Odd...), but the boiler itself is obviously NOT a Gilbert piece, as evidenced by the steam dome in front of the firebox. Does appear to have a Gilbert ornamental bell near the smokestack. Notice, if you can, that where the "new" boiler meets the Gilbert firebox, someone riveted a band to cover the gap. A hole exists in the top of the firebox, which was used as part of the bracketing for when the locomotive had a V-1 (6V) motor inside. What kind of made me think poor craftsmanship earlier, is that underneath the running board, a piece of sheet metal is riveted in, and crude representations of coils and a pump are soldered on. I'm thinking either this was done by someone else, other than original builder, later in the locomotive's original life (I feel it has a "New" life in my home), or that it was done by the original builder as a "Good enough" patch until proper fittings could be added at a time that never came. This is indeed a very interesting model. The cab windows have been altered, but the original Gilbert numbering is still present. If the horizontal piece was removed, the cab window repainted, then it was done exceptionally well, as it looks like a factory job. The tender also does have original New York Central lettering on the side. Just does not add up too well. I'm sure there's a very interesting story of how this locomotive came to be. Sadly, we'll never know it. On the other hand, my thoughts tonight for Frankenhudson's future: The tender will be stripped and primed following a last set of photos. Then given a new coat of black paint, and lettered for my fictitious "home road", the Davenport, Peoria & Western. This was a concept I'd had on a layout I ran as a teenager a long time ago, and am picking up again. A creative writing assignment in English Class produced the history of the road, as a joint venture of the New York Central and the Rock Island to bypass Chicago. My plan is to reletter the tender for the DP&W, and make this locomotive a 2-8-2 or 2-8-4. As the NYC had 50% interest in the DP&W, the line borrowed heavily from the NYC, design wise. Perhaps at the onset of WWII, the DP&W has Berk or Mikado frames ready, and contracted the NYC to build Hudson boilers over them, one upping the Pennsy's Mikes using the same boiler as the K-4! Would certainly continue the spirit of Frankenhudson! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20715	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Fw: [vintageHO] Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)

Attachments : 100_0332.JPG 100_0331.JPG 100_0330.JPG 100_0328.JPG Hmm, would help if I actually attached the pictures! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/27/12, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders) To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 12:39 AM   All, As requested, here are some pics of the Gilbert Frankenhudson. I'm rethinking my statement on the less-than-steller craftsmanship. Actually, could be more than one person worked on it. Looking closer, the boiler is not one casting including the cab. The cab, firebox, and grate are indeed Gilbert (Though someone went to the effort to remove the horizontal cab windowpane framework and repaint it all as Gilbert would have, with the red outer frame. Odd...), but the boiler itself is obviously NOT a Gilbert piece, as evidenced by the steam dome in front of the firebox. Does appear to have a Gilbert ornamental bell near the smokestack. Notice, if you can, that where the "new" boiler meets the Gilbert firebox, someone riveted a band to cover the gap. A hole exists in the top of the firebox, which was used as part of the bracketing for when the locomotive had a V-1 (6V) motor inside. What kind of made me think poor craftsmanship earlier, is that underneath the running board, a piece of sheet metal is riveted in, and crude representations of coils and a pump are soldered on. I'm thinking either this was done by someone else, other than original builder, later in the locomotive's original life (I feel it has a "New" life in my home), or that it was done by the original builder as a "Good enough" patch until proper fittings could be added at a time that never came. This is indeed a very interesting model. The cab windows have been altered, but the original Gilbert numbering is still present. If the horizontal piece was removed, the cab window repainted, then it was done exceptionally well, as it looks like a factory job. The tender also does have original New York Central lettering on the side. Just does not add up too well. I'm sure there's a very interesting story of how this locomotive came to be. Sadly, we'll never know it. On the other hand, my thoughts tonight for Frankenhudson's future: The tender will be stripped and primed following a last set of photos. Then given a new coat of black paint, and lettered for my fictitious "home road", the Davenport, Peoria & Western. This was a concept I'd had on a layout I ran as a teenager a long time ago, and am picking up again. A creative writing assignment in English Class produced the history of the road, as a joint venture of the New York Central and the Rock Island to bypass Chicago. My plan is to reletter the tender for the DP&W, and make this locomotive a 2-8-2 or 2-8-4. As the NYC had 50% interest in the DP&W, the line borrowed heavily from the NYC, design wise. Perhaps at the onset of WWII, the DP&W has Berk or Mikado frames ready, and contracted the NYC to build Hudson boilers over them, one upping the Pennsy's Mikes using the same boiler as the K-4! Would certainly continue the spirit of Frankenhudson! -Steve Neubaum

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20716	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)

Steven, what you have there is a 38 to 39 pre war Gilbert Hudson shell. The concave dome and single vertical window separation identifies it as such. Nothing unusual looking about it that I can see. Dominic From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:39 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Frankenhudson (Was Gilbert Tenders)   All, As requested, here are some pics of the Gilbert Frankenhudson. I'm rethinking my statement on the less-than-steller craftsmanship. Actually, could be more than one person worked on it. Looking closer, the boiler is not one casting including the cab. The cab, firebox, and grate are indeed Gilbert (Though someone went to the effort to remove the horizontal cab windowpane framework and repaint it all as Gilbert would have, with the red outer frame. Odd...), but the boiler itself is obviously NOT a Gilbert piece, as evidenced by the steam dome in front of the firebox. Does appear to have a Gilbert ornamental bell near the smokestack. Notice, if you can, that where the "new" boiler meets the Gilbert firebox, someone riveted a band to cover the gap. A hole exists in the top of the firebox, which was used as part of the bracketing for when the locomotive had a V-1 (6V) motor inside. What kind of made me think poor craftsmanship earlier, is that underneath the running board, a piece of sheet metal is riveted in, and crude representations of coils and a pump are soldered on. I'm thinking either this was done by someone else, other than original builder, later in the locomotive's original life (I feel it has a "New" life in my home), or that it was done by the original builder as a "Good enough" patch until proper fittings could be added at a time that never came. This is indeed a very interesting model. The cab windows have been altered, but the original Gilbert numbering is still present. If the horizontal piece was removed, the cab window repainted, then it was done exceptionally well, as it looks like a factory job. The tender also does have original New York Central lettering on the side. Just does not add up too well. I'm sure there's a very interesting story of how this locomotive came to be. Sadly, we'll never know it. On the other hand, my thoughts tonight for Frankenhudson's future: The tender will be stripped and primed following a last set of photos. Then given a new coat of black paint, and lettered for my fictitious "home road", the Davenport, Peoria & Western. This was a concept I'd had on a layout I ran as a teenager a long time ago, and am picking up again. A creative writing assignment in English Class produced the history of the road, as a joint venture of the New York Central and the Rock Island to bypass Chicago. My plan is to reletter the tender for the DP&W, and make this locomotive a 2-8-2 or 2-8-4. As the NYC had 50% interest in the DP&W, the line borrowed heavily from the NYC, design wise. Perhaps at the onset of WWII, the DP&W has Berk or Mikado frames ready, and contracted the NYC to build Hudson boilers over them, one upping the Pennsy's Mikes using the same boiler as the K-4! Would certainly continue the spirit of Frankenhudson! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20717	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides

I know some of you guys build using paper or card stock car sides and some of the very early kits had paper/card car sides so you might be interested in this latest build to come out of my California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops of a G&D box car.  Some of the techniques are applicable to building other vintage kits as well. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20718	From: wdavis5069	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides

Very interesting and enjoyable. I have two complete sets of those sides and I actually started one of the cars about 30 years ago. It was the first one, the NMRA Bulletin car. It got put aside during one of my moves and I finally finished it a couple of years ago. I milled my own floor stock on an old radial arm saw. (I made a bunch of it, but can't find it now.) Anyway you have inspired me to build another one. Like you, I thoroughly enjoyed the process. Thanks for sharing your web site and techniques with us. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > I know some of you guys build using paper or card stock car sides and > some of the very early kits had paper/card car sides so you might be > interested in this latest build to come out of my California Western > Locomotive and Car Rebuild <http://www.cwrailman.com/> shops of a G&D > box car. Some of the techniques are applicable to building other > vintage kits as well. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com <http://www.cwrailman.com/> > > Facebook: CWRailman > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20719	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides

Denny and all, You might want to consider a piece of stripwood or similar above the door for the doorguide. Looks as though that was drawn into the card side, which give the door a "Floating" effect. When I was younger, I had a copy of AutoCad through my school, and used it to draw up my own cardstock kits. Somewhere at dad's house I should still have these drawings on a CD,as I had burned all the drawings to disc many years ago. Card and wood is my favorite modeling medium. With some skill and a bit of creativity, its amazing what can be made with the stuff. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 12/28/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 12:54 AM   I know some of you guys build using paper or card stock car sides and some of the very early kits had paper/card car sides so you might be interested in this latest build to come out of my California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops of a G&D box car.  Some of the techniques are applicable to building other vintage kits as well. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20720	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides

Steve, You are correct, that upper door track as well as bottom door guides will be coming and was the reason the top of the door was thinned down a bit.  Also to come is installation of brake gear under the car as well as brake staff etc. on the end of the car, additional hand grabs on the sides and ends and painting of the roof and frame and some detailing of the trucks.   The project has a way to go yet but I wanted to get it out there because I have some folks doing their own build of this same car and I wanted to provide a bit of motivation for their projects  Anybody else going to give this a try?   How about a challenge?  Build a card sided car in 2 months.  Either kit or scratch or .. I hope you all have a safe and prosperous New Year! Don, thanks for maintaining this forum for all of us to participate in. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > Denny and all, > > You might want to consider a piece of stripwood or similar above the door for the doorguide. Looks as though that was drawn into the card side, which give the door a "Floating" effect. > > When I was younger, I had a copy of AutoCad through my school, and used it to draw up my own cardstock kits. Somewhere at dad's house I should still have these drawings on a CD,as I had burned all the drawings to disc many years ago. > > Card and wood is my favorite modeling medium. With some skill and a bit of creativity, its amazing what can be made with the stuff. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Fri, 12/28/12, cwrailman cwrailman@... wrote: > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 12:54 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > I know some of you guys build using paper or card stock car sides and some of the very early kits had paper/card car sides so you might be interested in this latest build to come out of my California Western Locomotive and Car Rebuild shops of a G&D box car.  Some of the techniques are applicable to building other vintage kits as well. > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > WEB site: CWRailman.com  > Facebook: CWRailman  >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20721	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides

Sorry, that should have been Stephen, not Steve. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote: > > > Steve, > > You are correct, that upper door track as well as bottom door guides > will be coming and was the reason the top of the door was thinned down a > bit. Also to come is installation of brake gear under the car as well > as brake staff etc. on the end of the car, additional hand grabs on the > sides and ends and painting of the roof and frame and some detailing of > the trucks. The project has a way to go yet but I wanted to get it out > there because I have some folks doing their own build of this same car > and I wanted to provide a bit of motivation for their projects > > Anybody else going to give this a try? How about a challenge? Build a > card sided car in 2 months. Either kit or scratch or .. > > I hope you all have a safe and prosperous New Year! > > Don, thanks for maintaining this forum for all of us to participate in. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com > Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20722	From: jsangiovanni@snet.net	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Painted shell M&StL bay window caboose,

Hello everyone, Just curious if anyone has seen or has a painted red over a yellow shell M&StL caboose. I've been buying for a long time and this is the first one I've ever seen let alone gotten. Came from an in State seller too. Anyone? Dominic

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20723	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides

Denny, Actually, I usually go by Steve, but on my email, have my name as Stephen, as that is what is on my birth certificate, and what I use, for the most part, with accounts online and at other places. Build a car within two months? Pffft. Easy. Past few nights, the projects have been making late 19th century style wood cars out of stripwood. I've got a few old Mantua and AHM steamers, needed some freight cars for them. Try making models with NO plastic in them. Done it many times myself. Thanks -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 12/28/12, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Box Car Build Using Printed Car Sides To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 10:54 AM   Sorry, that should have been Stephen, not Steve. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" wrote: > > > Steve, > > You are correct, that upper door track as well as bottom door guides > will be coming and was the reason the top of the door was thinned down a > bit. Also to come is installation of brake gear under the car as well > as brake staff etc. on the end of the car, additional hand grabs on the > sides and ends and painting of the roof and frame and some detailing of > the trucks. The project has a way to go yet but I wanted to get it out > there because I have some folks doing their own build of this same car > and I wanted to provide a bit of motivation for their projects > > Anybody else going to give this a try? How about a challenge? Build a > card sided car in 2 months. Either kit or scratch or…….. > > I hope you all have a safe and prosperous New Year! > > Don, thanks for maintaining this forum for all of us to participate in. > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > WEB site: CWRailman.com > Facebook: CWRailman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20724	From: gbwdude	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Intro

Hello, I am lucky to find this group as I operate (and restore) many items not usually seen on model railroads today. Like many of the people on here I'm sure, my worst enemy is zamac poisoning. My semi-fictional model railroad, the Whiskey River Railway, has quite the unique roster of locomotives and rolling stock compared to some other modern rosters. In the future I'll be posting pictures and probably a few questions. I hope everyone has a fun and safe New Years! Tyler Dreisow Manager of the Whiskey River Railway

Group: vintageHO	Message: 20725	From: gary pardue	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

Hello Tyler, Welcome and please post all the photos you can. I love seeing the old stuff. Gary Pardue --- On Mon, 12/31/12, gbwdude <gbwdude@...> wrote: From: gbwdude <gbwdude@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Intro To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 31, 2012, 11:24 AM   Hello, I am lucky to find this group as I operate (and restore) many items not usually seen on model railroads today. Like many of the people on here I'm sure, my worst enemy is zamac poisoning. My semi-fictional model railroad, the Whiskey River Railway, has quite the unique roster of locomotives and rolling stock compared to some other modern rosters. In the future I'll be posting pictures and probably a few questions. I hope everyone has a fun and safe New Years! Tyler Dreisow Manager of the Whiskey River Railway