Messages in vintageHO group.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15733	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15734	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15735	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some Conover Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15736	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15737	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15738	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15739	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15740	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15741	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15742	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Train comic book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15744	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Eastern Car Works
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15745	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15746	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15747	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15748	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15749	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15750	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15751	From: Sam	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15752	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15753	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15754	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Walthers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15755	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15756	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15757	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15758	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15759	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15760	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15761	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15762	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15763	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15764	From: al45390	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15765	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15766	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15767	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15768	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15769	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15770	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15771	From: Richard White	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15772	From: jay matz	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15773	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15774	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15775	From: mrkeitho	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15776	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15777	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15778	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15779	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15780	From: Richard White	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15781	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15782	From: Glenn	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15783	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15784	From: Keith O.	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15785	From: Glenn	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15786	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15787	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15788	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15789	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15790	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15791	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15792	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15793	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Decals Exist for Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15794	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15795	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15796	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15798	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Varney Yellowstone boiler casting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15799	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15800	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15801	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Final set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15802	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15803	From: Mary Long	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15804	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15805	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15806	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15807	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15808	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15809	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15810	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15811	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15812	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15813	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15814	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15815	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15816	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15817	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15818	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15819	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15820	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15821	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: More on matching paint
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15822	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15823	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15824	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15825	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15826	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15827	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15828	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15830	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault, not
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15831	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15832	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15833	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15834	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15835	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15836	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15837	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15838	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15839	From: Randolph Torres	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: FOR SALE HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15840	From: Larry	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15841	From: SaltNPepper WhoKnows	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare - Details about item: sent a message about MDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15842	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15843	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: PING to RUSS SHEIL!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15844	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15845	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15846	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Photo of American Beauty sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15847	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15848	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15849	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15850	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15851	From: RalphB	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: I knew it wasn't Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15852	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15853	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15854	From: erieberk	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15855	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15856	From: jerrygart5	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15857	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15858	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15859	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15860	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15861	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15862	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Help Identifying Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15863	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15864	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15865	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15866	From: Glenn	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15867	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15868	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15869	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15870	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15871	From: Nelson	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15872	From: Richard	Date: 1/19/2011
Subject: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15873	From: Matthew	Date: 1/20/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15874	From: Nelson	Date: 1/21/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15875	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15876	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15877	From: Nelson	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15878	From: Matthew	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15879	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15880	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15881	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15882	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15883	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15884	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15885	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15886	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15887	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15888	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15889	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15890	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Are Chatanooga Choo-Choos related to rabbits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15891	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15892	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15893	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: GHC emblem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15894	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15895	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15896	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15897	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: GHC emblem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15898	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15899	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15900	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15901	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15902	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15903	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15904	From: Riverboy	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15905	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15906	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15907	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15908	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15909	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15910	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15911	From: VtHam	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15912	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15913	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15914	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15915	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15916	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15917	From: Richard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15918	From: David	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15919	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15920	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15921	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15922	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15923	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15924	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15925	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15926	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15927	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15928	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Fw: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants - Rest of The Unfinished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15929	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15930	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15931	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15932	From: Matthew	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15933	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15934	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15935	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: addendum to Hobbies Inc
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15936	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15937	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15938	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc. ads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15939	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15940	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15941	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15942	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15943	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15944	From: jbark76	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15945	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15946	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15947	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15948	From: al45390	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Pre-War Gilbert Tru-Model freight train set on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15949	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers - Ho
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15950	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15951	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15952	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15953	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15954	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15955	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15956	From: al45390	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15957	From: Wally Weart	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15958	From: James Bartelt	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15959	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15961	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15962	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15963	From: George Frey	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15964	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15965	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15966	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15967	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15968	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15969	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Springfield train show
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15970	From: erieberk	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15971	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15972	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15973	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15974	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15975	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15976	From: tomml57	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15977	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15978	From: RalphB	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15979	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15980	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15981	From: JAMES GITTS	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: JC passenger cars found for sale at the springfield show still avail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15983	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15984	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15985	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15986	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15987	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15988	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15989	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15990	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15991	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15992	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15993	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15994	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15995	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15996	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15997	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15998	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15999	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16000	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16001	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16002	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16003	From: tom leen	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16004	From: RalphB	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16005	From: tom leen	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16006	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16007	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Mantua Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16008	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16009	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16010	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16011	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/4/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16012	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16013	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16014	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Train show stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16015	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16016	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16017	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: plastic truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16018	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: plastic truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16019	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16020	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16021	From: Richard White	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16022	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Change of pace
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16023	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16024	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Change of pace [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16025	From: Westfield Weavers	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: train donations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16026	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16027	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16028	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16029	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16030	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16031	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16032	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16033	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16034	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Most "fun" so far
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16035	From: Tom Hare	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16036	From: Nelson	Date: 2/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16037	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16038	From: Richard White	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16039	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16040	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16041	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16042	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16043	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16044	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: JC cardside car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16045	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16046	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16047	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16048	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16049	From: al45390	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16050	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16051	From: John H	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16052	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16053	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16054	From: Glenn	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16055	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16056	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16057	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16058	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16059	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16060	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16061	From: leetrains	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16062	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16063	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16064	From: Robert	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16065	From: Richard White	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16066	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16067	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16068	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16069	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16070	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16071	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16072	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16073	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16074	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16075	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16076	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16077	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16078	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16079	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16080	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16081	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16082	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16083	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Varney pre war passenger set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16084	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16085	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16086	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question Cast Stock Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16087	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16088	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16089	From: William Frisk	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16090	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Varney pre war passenger set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16091	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16092	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16093	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16094	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question Cast Stock Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16095	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16097	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16098	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16099	From: Karl Peters	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16100	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16101	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16102	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16103	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16104	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16105	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16106	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16107	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16108	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16109	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16110	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16111	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16112	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16113	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: This Weekend! - Great Train Expo in Portland, OR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16114	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MYSTERY 2-8-4 BRASS & DIECAST STEAM ENGINE I have listed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16115	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16116	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16117	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16118	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16119	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16120	From: Larry	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: This Weekend! - Peoria Train Fair in East Peoria, IL
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16121	From: Richard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MDC Shay Truck Mounting Pins
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16122	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16123	From: RalphB	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16124	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16125	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16126	From: Nelson	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16127	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16128	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16129	From: JimW	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16130	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16132	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16133	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16134	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16135	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: WANTED GG1 SHELLS !! Re: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16136	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16137	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16138	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16139	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16140	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, Mikie Won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16141	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, Mikie Won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16142	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16143	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16144	From: Chris B	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16145	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16146	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16147	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16148	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16149	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16150	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16151	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16152	From: Nelson	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16153	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16154	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16155	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16156	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16157	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16158	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16159	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16160	From: Nelson	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16161	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16162	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16163	From: tom leen	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16164	From: hooligan	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16165	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16166	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16167	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16168	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16169	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16170	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16171	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16172	From: Richard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16173	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16174	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck side frame
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16175	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty truck side frame
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16176	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16177	From: Richard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16178	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16179	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16180	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16181	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Red Ball cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16182	From: Richard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16183	From: Joe	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16184	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16185	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16186	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16187	From: James Bartelt	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16188	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16189	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16190	From: Dale Smith	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16191	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16192	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16193	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16194	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16195	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16196	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16197	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16198	From: John H	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16199	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/1/2011
Subject: Item won on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16200	From: mrncartoon	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Great Website on Vintage Model Magazines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16201	From: pfpackman	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16202	From: Richard White	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16203	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16204	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16205	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16206	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16207	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16208	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16209	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16210	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16212	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16213	From: Matthew	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16214	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16215	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16216	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: item won on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16217	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: New Oldies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16218	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16220	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16221	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16222	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 3/4/2011
Subject: Bowser and Suncoast Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16223	From: PaulP	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Solvents for Floquil Paints
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16224	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Good day at the show
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16225	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Re: Good day at the show
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16226	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16227	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16228	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16229	From: Richard White	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16230	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16231	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16232	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16233	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16234	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16235	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16236	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16237	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16238	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16239	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16240	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16241	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16242	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16243	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16244	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16245	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16246	From: Glenn	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16247	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16248	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16249	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16250	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16251	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16252	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16253	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2225
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16254	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16255	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16256	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16257	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16258	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16259	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16260	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16261	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16262	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16263	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16264	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Item you might decide to part with
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16265	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16266	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16267	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16268	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16269	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16270	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16271	From: Chris B	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16272	From: Matthew	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16273	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16274	From: Charles	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16275	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16276	From: Dale Smith	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16277	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16278	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16279	From: Matthew	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16280	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16281	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16282	From: Glenn	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16283	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16284	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Fw: [vintageHO] Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16286	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16287	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16288	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16289	From: Richard White	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16290	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET MARCH 13th CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16291	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16292	From: Ed	Date: 3/12/2011
Subject: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16293	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16294	From: Chris B	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16295	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16296	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16297	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16298	From: jbark76	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16299	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16300	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16301	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16302	From: Glenn	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16303	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: A winning bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16304	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: tag sale finds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16305	From: Peter Nyce	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16306	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: tag sale finds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16307	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16308	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16309	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16310	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16311	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16312	From: Glenn	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16313	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16314	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16315	From: Glenn	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: MDC parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16316	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: Odd project engine / drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16317	From: James Bartelt	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Unusual Revell Covered Hopper.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16318	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16319	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16320	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16321	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16322	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16323	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16324	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16325	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16326	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: odd engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16327	From: Glenn	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine [6 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16328	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16329	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16330	From: jbark76	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16331	From: Chris B	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16332	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: 2011 GLMRS Update and Campus Map
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16333	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16334	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: seeking information
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16335	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16336	From: Robert	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16337	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16338	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16339	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16340	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16341	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16342	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16343	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16344	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16345	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16346	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16347	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16348	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16349	From: Nelson	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16350	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16351	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16352	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16353	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16354	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16355	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16356	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16357	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16358	From: docdenny34	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16359	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16360	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16361	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16362	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16363	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16364	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16365	From: VtHam	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16366	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16367	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16368	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16369	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16370	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Decision made on Winton tender trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16371	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16372	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16373	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16374	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16375	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Decision made on Winton tender trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16376	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Winton Allegheny Versions ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16377	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Update for Ulrich Cars list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16378	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16379	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16380	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16381	From: VtHam	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16382	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16383	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Casting a Pilot?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16384	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16385	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16386	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16387	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16388	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Update for Ulrich Cars list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16389	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16390	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16391	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: First version Athearn Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16392	From: Richard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Athearn P-4 Modelers Notes Article
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16393	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16394	From: garyp552002	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16395	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16396	From: 23weldon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Casting a Pilot?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16397	From: Bill Anderson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16398	From: Glenn	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16399	From: wjclaasen@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16400	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16401	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16402	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16403	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16404	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16405	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16406	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16407	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16408	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16409	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16410	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16411	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16412	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16413	From: Matthew	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16414	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Ulrich C&SW GS Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16415	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16416	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16417	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16418	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16419	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16420	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/30/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16421	From: Rick Steele	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16422	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16423	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16424	From: Rick Steele	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16425	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Tender Trucks Atrached
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16426	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16427	From: pennsyjuice	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16428	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16429	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16430	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16431	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16432	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16433	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16434	From: Nelson	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16435	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16436	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Possibly Off Topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16437	From: RalphB	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16438	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16439	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16440	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16441	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16442	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16443	From: Rick Jones	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16444	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/5/2011
Subject: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16445	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16446	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16447	From: Mary Long	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Possibly Off Topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16448	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16449	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16450	From: Nelson	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16451	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16452	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16453	From: Matthew	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16454	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16455	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16456	From: Richard	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16457	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16458	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16459	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16460	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16461	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16462	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16463	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16464	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16465	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16466	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16467	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16468	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16469	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: For Sale: Bass 0-6-6-0 Steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16470	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16471	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16472	From: Graeme	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16473	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16474	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16475	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16476	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16477	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Ostuco decal project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16478	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16479	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16480	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16481	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16482	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16483	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16484	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16485	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16486	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16487	From: rcjge	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16488	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16489	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16490	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16491	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16492	From: rcjge	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16493	From: 23weldon	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16494	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16495	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/15/2011
Subject: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16496	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16497	From: rcjge	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16498	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16499	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16500	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16501	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16502	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16503	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16504	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16505	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16506	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16507	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16508	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16509	From: Glenn	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16510	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16511	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16512	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16513	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16514	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16516	From: oljoe	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16517	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16518	From: Richard White	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Red Ball rotary snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16519	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16520	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16521	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16522	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16523	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16524	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16525	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16526	From: Nelson	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16527	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16528	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16529	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16530	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16531	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Posted several plans for bashing LaBelle kits.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16532	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16533	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16534	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16535	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Layout News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16536	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16537	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16538	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16539	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16540	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16541	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16542	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16543	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16544	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16545	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16546	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16547	From: Glenn	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16548	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16549	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16550	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16551	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16552	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16553	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16554	From: Garry Spear	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16555	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16556	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16557	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16558	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16559	From: Richard White	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16560	From: J Dampier	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16561	From: Glenn	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16562	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16563	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16564	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16565	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16566	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16567	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16568	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16569	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16570	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16571	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16572	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16573	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16574	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16575	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16576	From: Richard White	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16578	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16579	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16580	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16581	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16582	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: boxcar ID - SP not SP&S!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16583	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16584	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16585	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16586	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16587	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16588	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Looking for Westerfield lettering diagram sheet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16589	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16590	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16591	From: Douglas	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16592	From: Nelson	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16593	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16594	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16595	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16596	From: David J. Starr	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16597	From: Carl Neste	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16598	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16599	From: Richard White	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Decals for the Nevada Northern RR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16600	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16601	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16602	From: Glenn	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16603	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16604	From: Carl Neste	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16605	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16606	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16607	From: Rick Jones	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16608	From: Nelson	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16609	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16610	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16611	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16612	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16613	From: RalphB	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16614	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16615	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16616	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16617	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16618	From: Richard White	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16619	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16620	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16621	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16622	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16623	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16624	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16625	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Instruction sheet sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16626	From: tom bell	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Re: Brass Betsy Instruction sheet sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16627	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Varney diesel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16628	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/16/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16629	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16630	From: Charles	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16631	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16632	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16633	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16634	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16635	From: Glenn	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16636	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16637	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Lindsey Motor up for grabs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16638	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16639	From: Glenn	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16640	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16641	From: Don Hud	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16642	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16643	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16644	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16645	From: Don Hud	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16646	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Building a Varney Coach Presentation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16647	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Re: Building a Varney Coach Presentation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16648	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Re: Building a Varney Coach Presentation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16649	From: Robert	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Hobbyline FM 10-44
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16650	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbyline FM 10-44
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16651	From: william witte	Date: 5/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbyline FM 10-44 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16652	From: antiquestoyscollectibles	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16653	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16654	From: Glenn	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16655	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16656	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16657	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16658	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16659	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16660	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16661	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16662	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16663	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16664	From: Glenn	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16665	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16666	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16667	From: Richard White	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16668	From: Glenn	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16669	From: erieberk	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16670	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16671	From: erieberk	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16672	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Ostuco gondola via Walthers 46' gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16673	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16674	From: WalterB	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16675	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16676	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16677	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16678	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16679	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16680	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16681	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16682	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16683	From: Graeme	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16684	From: Rick Jones	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16685	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16686	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16687	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16688	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16689	From: John Webster	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16690	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16691	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16692	From: Glenn	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16693	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16694	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Looking for a particular article?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16695	From: jbark76	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16696	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16697	From: Chris B	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: "scratchbuilding" was: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTIO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16698	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: "scratchbuilding" was: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRE
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16699	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/27/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16700	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16701	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 5/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16702	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16703	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16704	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16705	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16706	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16707	From: Glenn	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16708	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16709	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16710	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16711	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16712	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/1/2011
Subject: ATTENTION MODERATOR - INQUIRY
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16713	From: jbark76	Date: 6/1/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16714	From: John Webster	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16715	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16716	From: Glenn	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16717	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16718	From: WalterB	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16719	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16720	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16721	From: John H	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16722	From: Glenn	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: stuff found
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16723	From: Jens	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: deleting former ebay Powerseller Gold Shop with Items HO,N,O,On30,G
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16724	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/4/2011
Subject: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16725	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/4/2011
Subject: Conover Paperwork
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16726	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 6/5/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16727	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 6/5/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16728	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16730	From: Charles	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16731	From: dasha	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16732	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16733	From: Richard White	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16734	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16735	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16736	From: Richard White	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16737	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16738	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Looking to trade Walthers passenger cars for Ambroid passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16739	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Wanted - Athearn #5407
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16740	From: jbark76	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16741	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16742	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16743	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16744	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16745	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16746	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16747	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16748	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16749	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16750	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16751	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16752	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16753	From: nvrr49	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16754	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16755	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16756	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16757	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16758	From: olharoldatfrl@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16759	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16760	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16761	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16762	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16763	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16764	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16765	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16766	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16767	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16768	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16769	From: Charles	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16770	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16771	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16772	From: 23weldon	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16773	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16774	From: Ed	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16775	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16776	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16777	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16778	From: Glenn	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16779	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: CM&StP decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16780	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: CM&StP decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16781	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16782	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16783	From: Dana Adams	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16784	From: Chris B	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16785	From: Chris B	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16786	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/12/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16787	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16788	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16789	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16790	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16791	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16792	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16793	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16794	From: Richard White	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16795	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16796	From: keith gutshall	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16797	From: keith gutshall	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16798	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16799	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16800	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16801	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16802	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16803	From: Charlie	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16804	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16805	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16806	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Wathers Pug Passenger Car Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16807	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16808	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16809	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16810	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16811	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers Gas Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16812	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16813	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16814	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16816	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars- a correction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16817	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16818	From: railroadmodeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - side post about
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16819	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16820	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - TEST post about
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16821	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers PUG passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16822	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers PUG passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16823	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16824	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16825	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16826	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16827	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16828	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16829	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16830	From: Charlie	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: What I've been doing lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16832	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16833	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16834	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16835	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16836	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16837	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16838	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16839	From: Wally Weart	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16840	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16841	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16842	From: Glenn	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16843	From: Wally Weart	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Repowering old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16844	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Repowering old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16845	From: John H	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Repowering old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16846	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua valve gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16847	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16848	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16849	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16850	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16851	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16852	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16853	From: John H	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16854	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16855	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16856	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16857	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16858	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16859	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16860	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16861	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16862	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16863	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16864	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16865	From: Glenn	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16866	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: NWSL PDT drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16867	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16868	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: shuttle jack stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16869	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16870	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16871	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16872	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16873	From: John H	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16874	From: John H	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16875	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16876	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16877	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16878	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16879	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16880	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16881	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16882	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16883	From: Charles	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16884	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16885	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/22/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16886	From: Dick	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16887	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16888	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16889	From: RalphB	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16890	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16891	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16892	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16893	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/26/2011
Subject: NYC Dreyfuss Tin Toy Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16894	From: tom	Date: 6/26/2011
Subject: Vintage HOn3?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16895	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage HOn3?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16896	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16897	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16898	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16899	From: Germain Golembowski	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16900	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16901	From: Richard White	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Central Valley trucks- Brass??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16902	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks- Brass??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16903	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16904	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16905	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16906	From: erieberk	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16907	From: erieberk	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16910	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16911	From: tom bell	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16912	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16913	From: tom bell	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16914	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16915	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16916	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16917	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16918	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16919	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16920	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16921	From: louis niederlander	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16922	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16923	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16924	From: louis niederlander	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16925	From: 23weldon	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16926	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16927	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16928	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16929	From: Glenn	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16930	From: John H	Date: 7/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16931	From: jbark76	Date: 7/3/2011
Subject: Varney 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16932	From: erieberk	Date: 7/4/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16933	From: erieberk	Date: 7/4/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16934	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16937	From: Richard White	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16938	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16939	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16940	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16941	From: Glenn	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16942	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16943	From: Glenn	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16944	From: Dick	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Old Dry Transfers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16945	From: louis niederlander	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Dry Transfers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16946	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Rejuvenating Old Dry Transfers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16947	From: John H	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16948	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16950	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16951	From: Don Grant	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16952	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: New acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16953	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16954	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16955	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16956	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16957	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16958	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16959	From: bearbon	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16960	From: bearbon	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16961	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Rivarossi parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16962	From: Richard White	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16963	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16964	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16965	From: Rich C	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16966	From: oljoe	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16967	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16968	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16969	From: william witte	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16970	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16971	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16972	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16973	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16974	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16975	From: 23weldon	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16976	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Mint Lionel engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16977	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16978	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16979	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16980	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16981	From: John H	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16983	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16984	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16985	From: John H	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16986	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16987	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16988	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/12/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16989	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/12/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16990	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/15/2011
Subject: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16991	From: Glenn	Date: 7/15/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16992	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16993	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16994	From: hspanier@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16995	From: Riverboy	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16996	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16997	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16998	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16999	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar. [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17000	From: John H	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17001	From: Glenn	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17002	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17003	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/18/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17004	From: Brock Lacy	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17005	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17006	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17007	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17008	From: Richard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17009	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17010	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17011	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17012	From: Glenn	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17013	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17014	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17015	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Static & Powered 0-4-0t
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17016	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: hoBBYLINE Static & Powered 0-4-0t
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17017	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: I apologize
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17018	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: HObbyline Static & Powered; Lionel Powered 0-4-0T's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17019	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/20/2011
Subject: Welcome back
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17020	From: Richard	Date: 7/20/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17021	From: John Webster	Date: 7/21/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17022	From: Jay	Date: 7/21/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome back
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17023	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototype
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17024	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Vall ey Protot
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17025	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Box Cab Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17026	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17027	From: Jay	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17028	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17029	From: jbark76	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17030	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17031	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17032	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17033	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17034	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17035	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17036	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17037	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Photo Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17038	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Photo Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit. [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17039	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17040	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17041	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17043	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17044	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Spam, spam, spam, eggs, spam, and cheese, with spam. WAS: (unkn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17045	From: ipwjr	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17046	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17047	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17048	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17049	From: Wally Weart	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Paul Moore
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17050	From: nvrr49	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17051	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17052	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Chester Pssenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17053	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17054	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: ...regarding Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17055	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17056	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17057	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17058	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17059	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17060	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17061	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17062	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17063	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17064	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17065	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17066	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17067	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17068	From: erieberk	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17069	From: erieberk	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17070	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17071	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17072	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17073	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17074	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: ...regarding Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17075	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17076	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17077	From: Jay	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17078	From: Jay	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17079	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17080	From: Nelson	Date: 7/27/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17081	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/27/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17082	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17083	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17084	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17085	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: R. M. Smith's RBD Patent & Drawings (Licensed by Athearn?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17086	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17087	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17088	From: rcjge	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17089	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17090	From: Nelson	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17091	From: Jay	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17092	From: rcjge	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Stubbby parts?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17093	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17094	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17095	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17096	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17097	From: Glenn	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17098	From: Nelson	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17099	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Stubbby parts?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17100	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Stubbby parts?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17101	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17102	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17103	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: More on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17104	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17105	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17106	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17107	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17108	From: dasha	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17109	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17111	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17112	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17113	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17114	From: Rick Jones	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17115	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17116	From: rcjge	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Pics in 4 sale Gareth
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17117	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17118	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17119	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17120	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17121	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17122	From: rcjge	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17123	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17124	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17125	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17126	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17127	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17128	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17129	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17130	From: Paul Stevenson	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17131	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17132	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/2/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17133	From: Jay	Date: 8/2/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17134	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weir
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17135	From: John H	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17136	From: Jay	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17137	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17138	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17139	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17140	From: Jay	Date: 8/4/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17141	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17142	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17143	From: hooligan	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17144	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17145	From: Brandan	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17146	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17147	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17148	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17149	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17150	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17151	From: Nelson	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17152	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17153	From: John H	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17154	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners has a company museum, too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17155	From: Rich C	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17156	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17157	From: Nelson	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17158	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17159	From: Wobbly913	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17160	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/10/2011
Subject: Herkimer OK Streamliners History.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17161	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17162	From: Jay	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17163	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17164	From: Jay	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17165	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17166	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17167	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17168	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17169	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17170	From: Nelson	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17171	From: Wally	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Motive Power Model Hobbies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17172	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Motive Power Model Hobbies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17173	From: RalphB	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Motive Power Model Hobbies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17174	From: ocalicreek	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17175	From: ocalicreek	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17176	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17177	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17178	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17179	From: Larry	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17180	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17181	From: tom leen	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17182	From: Richard White	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17183	From: Richard White	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17184	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17185	From: Richard White	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17186	From: rcjge	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17187	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17188	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: Another Varney Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17189	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Japanese Yard Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17190	From: Jay	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Varney Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17191	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17192	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Varney Tender [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17193	From: Richard White	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17194	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17195	From: rcjge	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17196	From: Richard White	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17197	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17198	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17199	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17200	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17201	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17202	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17203	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17204	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17205	From: rcjge	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17207	From: Richard White	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17208	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17209	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17210	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17212	From: Jay	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17213	From: Jay	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17214	From: Richard White	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17215	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17216	From: rcjge	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17217	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17218	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17219	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17220	From: rcjge	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17221	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17222	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17223	From: John H	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17224	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17225	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17226	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17227	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17228	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17229	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17230	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17231	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17232	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17233	From: corv9	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17234	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Varney Slope Back Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17235	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17236	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Varney Slope Back tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17237	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17238	From: rcjge	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17239	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17240	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17241	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17242	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17243	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17244	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17246	From: rcjge	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17247	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17248	From: corv9	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Exacta/ Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17249	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Slope Back tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17250	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology; Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17251	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17252	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17253	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17254	From: rcjge	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology; Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17255	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17256	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Little Japanese switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17257	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17258	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17259	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17260	From: Glenn	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17261	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17262	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17263	From: rcjge	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronolog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17264	From: Jay	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car/THS Sperry Car Parts Ad Located
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17265	From: Jay	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17266	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17267	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17268	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/23/2011
Subject: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17269	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17270	From: rcjge	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17271	From: RalphB	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17272	From: roger	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17273	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17274	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17275	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17276	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17277	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/25/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17278	From: Jay	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17279	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17280	From: rcjge	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17281	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17282	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17283	From: topstokes	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Varney Consolodation Kit #2721
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17284	From: rcjge	Date: 8/30/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Erie Centercab picture sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17285	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17286	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17287	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17288	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17289	From: mslater@wi.rr.com	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Centercab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17290	From: rcjge	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17291	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17292	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17293	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17294	From: rcjge	Date: 9/1/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17295	From: Richard White	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17296	From: Charles	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17297	From: Glenn	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17298	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17299	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17300	From: Charles	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17301	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17302	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17303	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/10/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17304	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17306	From: rcjge	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17307	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17308	From: Mike	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17309	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: internet down.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17310	From: rcjge	Date: 9/12/2011
Subject: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17311	From: Glenn	Date: 9/12/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17312	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17313	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17314	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17315	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17316	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17317	From: 23weldon	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17318	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17319	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17320	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17321	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17322	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17323	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Sampson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17324	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17325	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17326	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17327	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17328	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17329	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17330	From: tom bell	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17331	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17332	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17333	From: trainm7	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17334	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17335	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17336	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17337	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 9/17/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17338	From: Mike	Date: 9/17/2011
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17339	From: trainm7	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17340	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Vintage Model Railroader Magazines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17341	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17342	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17343	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: New Additons to the Roster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17344	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Additons to the Roster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17345	From: joegideon	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17347	From: joegideon	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Varney and Others...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17348	From: rcjge	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Steamer Shell what Chassis?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17349	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17350	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17351	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17352	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17353	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17354	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17355	From: Nelson	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17356	From: erieberk	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17357	From: rcjge	Date: 9/20/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17358	From: trainm7	Date: 9/21/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17359	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17360	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17361	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17362	From: erieberk	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17363	From: corv9	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17364	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17365	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17366	From: Glenn	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17367	From: rcjge	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17368	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17369	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17370	From: Glenn	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17371	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17372	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17373	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17374	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17375	From: Garry Spear	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17376	From: John H	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17377	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17378	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17379	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17380	From: jbark76	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17381	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17382	From: ablecynic	Date: 9/29/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17383	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/30/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17384	From: James Bartelt	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17385	From: william witte	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17386	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17387	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17388	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17389	From: Charles	Date: 10/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17390	From: rcjge	Date: 10/3/2011
Subject: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17391	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17392	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17393	From: Richard	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17394	From: David J. Starr	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17395	From: Rick Steele	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17396	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17397	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17398	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17399	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17400	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17401	From: al45390	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17402	From: Richard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17403	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17404	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17405	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17406	From: rcjge	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17407	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17408	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17409	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17410	From: Glenn	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17411	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17412	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17413	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17414	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17415	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17416	From: dennyanspach	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17417	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17418	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: I may have mis-read the thread....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17419	From: Glenn	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17420	From: Glenn	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: thinning collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17421	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17422	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17423	From: John H	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17424	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17425	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17426	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17427	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Super 4-8-4 Northern
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17428	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17429	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Super Berk ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17430	From: Nelson	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17431	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17432	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Mistake
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Mistake No Super Berk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17434	From: John Webster	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17435	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17436	From: al45390	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17437	From: rcjge	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17438	From: John Webster	Date: 10/9/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17439	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/9/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17440	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17441	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17442	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17443	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17444	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17445	From: tracey quon	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17446	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17447	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17448	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17449	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17450	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17451	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17452	From: Glenn	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17453	From: Glenn	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17454	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17455	From: oljoe	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17456	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17457	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17458	From: rcjge	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17459	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17460	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17461	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17462	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17463	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17464	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17465	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17466	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17467	From: oljoe	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17468	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17469	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17470	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17471	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17472	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17473	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17474	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17475	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17476	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17477	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17478	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17479	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17480	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17481	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17482	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17483	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17484	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17486	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17487	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17488	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17489	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17490	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17491	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17492	From: papa.smurf5@myfairpoint.net	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17493	From: Glenn	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17494	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17495	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17496	From: Jens	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: I am still deleting a former shop with N,HO,On30,O and G Scale Items
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17497	From: John Webster	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17498	From: william witte	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17499	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17500	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17501	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17502	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17503	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17504	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17506	From: papasmurf	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: WTB: Mantua #754 valve gear kit for their HO switchers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17507	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17508	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17509	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17510	From: jbark76	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17511	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17512	From: al45390	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17513	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17514	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17516	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17517	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17518	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17519	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17520	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17521	From: Charles	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17522	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17523	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17524	From: Charles	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17525	From: Lon Walker	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17526	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17527	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17528	From: John Webster	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: WTB: Mantua #754 valve gear kit for their HO switchers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17529	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17530	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17531	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17532	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17533	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17534	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17535	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17536	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17537	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17538	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17539	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17540	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17541	From: gary	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Semaphores
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17542	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17543	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: Semaphores
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17544	From: gary pardue	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: Semaphores
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17545	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17546	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: : Sampson Rail car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17547	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17548	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Rail car [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17549	From: Riverboy	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17550	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17551	From: Riverboy	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17552	From: Glenn	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: MTS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17553	From: John H	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17554	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17555	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17556	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17557	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17558	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: FS: 1948 Varney Catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17559	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17560	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17561	From: corv9	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: MTS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17562	From: al45390	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17563	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17564	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Fwd: FS: 1948 Varney Catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17565	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17566	From: bcerestrains	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17567	From: william witte	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17568	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17569	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17570	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17572	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17573	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17574	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17575	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17576	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17577	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17578	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17579	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17580	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17581	From: Charles	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17582	From: dennyanspach	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17583	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17584	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17585	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/29/2011
Subject: Not really a vintage question, but still wondering...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17586	From: RalphB	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Not really a vintage question, but still wondering...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17587	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Wondering... TYCO conversation crossover
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17588	From: rcjge	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Wondering... TYCO conversation crossover
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17589	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17590	From: mermaidnc	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17591	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/31/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17592	From: Nelson	Date: 10/31/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17593	From: trainm7	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17594	From: trainm7	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17595	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17596	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17597	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17598	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooke
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17599	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17600	From: Chris B	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17601	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17602	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17603	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17604	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17605	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17606	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17607	From: Chris B	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17608	From: Mike	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17609	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17610	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17611	From: trainm7	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17612	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17613	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17614	From: Nelson	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17615	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17616	From: PaulP	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: 4-4-0 Old time Tender wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17617	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17618	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/4/2011
Subject: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17619	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17620	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17621	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17622	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17623	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17624	From: Glenn	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17625	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17626	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17627	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17628	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17629	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17630	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17631	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17632	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17633	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17634	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17635	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17636	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17637	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17638	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17639	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17640	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17641	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17642	From: Nelson	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17643	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17644	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17645	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17646	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17647	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17648	From: leetrains	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: turntable picture folder link
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17649	From: leetrains	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17650	From: Lee	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17651	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17652	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17653	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: turntable picture folder link
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17654	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17655	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17656	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17657	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17658	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17659	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17660	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17661	From: Nelson	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17662	From: rcjge	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17663	From: tom bell	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17664	From: leetrains	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17665	From: rcjge	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17666	From: leetrains	Date: 11/10/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17667	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/11/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17668	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/11/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17669	From: rcjge	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Fleicshmann Baldwin Switcher info sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17670	From: Nelson	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17671	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17672	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17673	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17674	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17675	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17676	From: tom leen	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17677	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17678	From: grassball2003	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Need Parts List: Roundhouse #1516 Jordan Spreader / Snow Crab &Tool
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17679	From: gary	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17680	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17681	From: Glenn	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17682	From: gary pardue	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17683	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re; Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17684	From: gary pardue	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Re; Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17685	From: topstokes	Date: 11/14/2011
Subject: Lansing Model RR Club annual show Lansing MI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17686	From: Richard	Date: 11/14/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17687	From: AlfredG	Date: 11/15/2011
Subject: ORLANDO area Train Show this Saturday
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17688	From: Alpvalsys@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: ORLANDO area Train Show this Saturday
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17689	From: nvrr49	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17690	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17691	From: Glenn	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17692	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17693	From: nvrr49	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17694	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17695	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17696	From: earlyrail	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17697	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17698	From: earlyrail	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17699	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17700	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17701	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17702	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17703	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17704	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17705	From: rcjge	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17706	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17707	From: rcjge	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17708	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17709	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17710	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17711	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17712	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17713	From: Glenn	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17714	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17715	From: dwaite2000	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17716	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17717	From: jimbosul	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17718	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17719	From: Lawrence	Date: 11/20/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17720	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17721	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Interesting Link
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17722	From: trainm7	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17723	From: Glenn	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17724	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17725	From: rcjge	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17726	From: Glenn	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17727	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17728	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17729	From: Glenn	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17730	From: Charlie	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17731	From: Glenn	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17732	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17733	From: rcjge	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17734	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17735	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17736	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17737	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: hobbytown multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17738	From: Charlie	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17739	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17740	From: rcjge	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17741	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17742	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: OT Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: OT Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17744	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17745	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17746	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Phot
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17747	From: Glenn	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: HT multi-drive units
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17748	From: William Anderson	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17749	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17750	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Photo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17751	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17752	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17753	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17754	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17755	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17756	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17757	From: John H	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17758	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17759	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Tractors as flat car load, photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17760	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17761	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17762	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17763	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tractors as flat car load, photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17764	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17765	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17766	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17767	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17768	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17769	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17770	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17771	From: Nelson	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17772	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17773	From: gnmrr	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17774	From: bcerestrains	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17775	From: Nelson	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17776	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17777	From: Nelson	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17778	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17779	From: bcerestrains	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17780	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17781	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17782	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17783	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17784	From: Nelson	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17785	From: rcjge	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17786	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17787	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17788	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17789	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17790	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17791	From: allen	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17792	From: Russ	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17793	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17794	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17795	From: John H	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17796	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17798	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17799	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17800	From: John H	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17801	From: Mike	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17802	From: jay matz	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17803	From: rcjge	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17804	From: Mike	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17805	From: Glenn	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17806	From: jay matz	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17807	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17808	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17809	From: Lon Walker	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17810	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17811	From: Lon Walker	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17812	From: Jerome	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Frisco Norge Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17813	From: dennyanspach	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17814	From: dennyanspach	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17815	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17816	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17817	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17818	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17819	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17820	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17821	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17822	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17823	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17824	From: John H	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17825	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17827	From: John H	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17828	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17829	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17830	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17832	From: Alan	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17833	From: Glenn	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17834	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17835	From: RalphB	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17836	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17837	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17838	From: Nelson	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17839	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17840	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17841	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17842	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17843	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17844	From: RalphB	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17845	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17846	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: pre war varney plastic sided passenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17847	From: rcjge	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: 80' Walthers Pullman car 4 sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17848	From: Alan	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17849	From: jay matz	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17850	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17851	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Vintage and Near vintage Collection for Trade
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17852	From: Richard White	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17853	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17854	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17855	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17856	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17857	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17858	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17859	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17860	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17861	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/10/2011
Subject: Fwd: New Haven Wood bodied Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17862	From: rcjge	Date: 12/10/2011
Subject: JE Pacific was based on....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17863	From: Brent	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17864	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17865	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: New CWRailman WEB site up and running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17866	From: hawk53965	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17867	From: John H	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17868	From: Brent	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17869	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17870	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17871	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17872	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17873	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17874	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17875	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17876	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17877	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17878	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17879	From: John Webster	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17880	From: RalphB	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17881	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17882	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17883	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17884	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17885	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17886	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17887	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17888	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17889	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17890	From: Charlie	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Old Gears - in your Junk Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17891	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Old Gears - in your Junk Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17892	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17893	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17894	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17895	From: Charlie	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Old Gears - in your Junk Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17896	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17897	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17898	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17899	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17900	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17901	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17902	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/22/2011
Subject: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17903	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/22/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17904	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/23/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17905	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 12/23/2011
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17906	From: Jay	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Happy Holidays to All!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17907	From: Jay	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17908	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays to All!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17909	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17910	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17911	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17912	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17913	From: John H	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17914	From: hooligan	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17915	From: Larry	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Merry Christmas!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17916	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17917	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17918	From: Nelson	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17919	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17920	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17921	From: Jay	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17922	From: Jay	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17923	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17924	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17925	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17926	From: Nelson	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17927	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17928	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17929	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17930	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17931	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17932	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17933	From: Nelson	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17934	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17935	From: Fred Krause	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Vintage HO Scale Loco kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17937	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17938	From: Charles	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17939	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17940	From: Larry	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17941	From: hooligan	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17942	From: Larry	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17943	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17944	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17945	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17946	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17947	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17948	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17949	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17950	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17951	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: History of the hobby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17952	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: History of the hobby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17953	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17954	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17955	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17956	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17957	From: John H	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17958	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17959	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17960	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17961	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17962	From: Jay	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17963	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: :Looking for
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17964	From: Jay	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Caboose Model Versions, 1938-1950
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17965	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17966	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17967	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17968	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17970	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17971	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17972	From: Jay	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17973	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17974	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17975	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17976	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17977	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17978	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17979	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17980	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17981	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17982	From: Jay	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17983	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17984	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17985	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17986	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Theodore Picard 1948 Obituary
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17987	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17988	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17989	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17990	From: Jay	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17991	From: MikeS	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Lionel Super "O" Trackage
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17992	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17993	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Marn-O-Stat
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17994	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Marn-O-Stat
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17995	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific, part II....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17996	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17997	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17998	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific...Epilogue
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17999	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18000	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18001	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18003	From: John H	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18004	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

---

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15733	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed

Group, I checked on HO Seeker, and did not find what I am looking for: The diagram to a metal and wood 85' Heavyweight observation car. Does anyone have a copy they could scan in? I have two of these cars, and need to know where the prism windows go. I got one car that works mechanically, but was cosmetically pretty ratty. After removing the roof (Was held down only by a screw through the deck, I pulled out the damaged celluloid window inserts (No prism windows - all clear), and have replaced this. I got tons of prism window inserts, but need to know what windows used them... Also, upon checking again, there is no 85' dining car diagram, same problem: Where do the prism windows go on that car? Any help is most appreicated! Been spending the day listening to my 78 RPM records and finally tackling fixing up a bunch of Walthers cars that needed repairs. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15734	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Varney

Attachments : Ostuco_Var_02x.pdf Group,   Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it.   Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become the whole set………   Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today’s world, no guarantees.   Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual printing.   John Hagen

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15735	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some Conover Progress

Looking really nice, Jim I wonder how many hours you'll have in on this one by the time it's done! I can't imagine a nicer one anywhere in existance. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15736	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney

I just opened the attachment as it comes over the web. I see a couple of problems that I will address before the actual printing. The "1" in 1740 and the whole car number appear overly heavy Also the line above the OSTX seems merged with the stripe above it. First remember that this is not the native format of the artwork and things do not always show the same. And it has been rasterized for use on the web. Also be aware that once evetything is "set", I do print samples to check my work before putting ink to decal paper. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or > someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they > fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. > > > > Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if > I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the > other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only > print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become > the whole set... > > > > Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the > Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today's world, no > guarantees. > > > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing > with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must > be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual > printing. > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15737	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

Hi John, I wish my camera had fully recharged batteries, so I could take a picture.  Everything fits PERFECTLY!  The ONLY comment I have is that the 1908 under OSTX is a bit on the heavy side compared to the Varney lettering, but otherwise it lines up perfectly according to the Varney car.  I expect that you will add the red color later? However, compared to the prototype, the OSTX and 1908 should be a bit taller and the underline on the 1908 should line up with the line that says LT WT 55600, but I am going to guess that you already know this. Thanks very much and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 13:58:05 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Group,   Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it.   Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become the whole set………   Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today’s world, no guarantees.   Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual printing.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15738	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney

Attachments : varneyostuco1.JPG Hi John, I snagged the undercharged batteries out of the charger and put them in the camera and here is what I got.  It looks GREAT! Here is what your printout looks like cut out and placed onto the car.  Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 20:15:12 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: OSTUCO for Varney   I just opened the attachment as it comes over the web. I see a couple of problems that I will address before the actual printing. The "1" in 1740 and the whole car number appear overly heavy Also the line above the OSTX seems merged with the stripe above it. First remember that this is not the native format of the artwork and things do not always show the same. And it has been rasterized for use on the web. Also be aware that once evetything is "set", I do print samples to check my work before putting ink to decal paper. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or > someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they > fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. > > > > Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if > I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the > other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only > print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become > the whole set... > > > > Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the > Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today's world, no > guarantees. > > > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing > with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must > be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual > printing. > > > > John Hagen >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15739	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

I printed it out, and I can match it up to my existing OSTUCO car on Sunday, unless somebody gets there first. Maybe I can get a close-up shot of both the car and the print together... Mike On 1/1/2011 2:58 PM, John Hagen wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from John Hagen included below] > > Group, > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or > someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if > they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. > > Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends > if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on > the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to > only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has > become the whole set……… > > Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit > the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today’s > world, no guarantees. > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When > printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all > artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the > time of actual printing. > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15740	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

Thanks Vic. Thanks to group owner Don Dellman for his clear photos and dimensions. I was able to scale his photo to full HO size and then draw the artwork to scale. I will be double checking the heavieness of the numbers before printing the decals. This may be a matter of the pdf not being the drawings native format. But, if I need to change I will. This is a simple modification. This set is designed to duplicate the Varney car. The other part of the set is following the prototype and designed for the Walthers 46' gondola. That one is virtually done but I will not put the finishing touches on it until I receive my Walthers car, which should be Tuesday. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John, > I wish my camera had fully recharged batteries, so I could take a picture. Everything fits PERFECTLY! The ONLY comment I have is that the 1908 under OSTX is a bit on the heavy side compared to the Varney lettering, but otherwise it lines up perfectly according to the Varney car. I expect that you will add the red color later? > However, compared to the prototype, the OSTX and 1908 should be a bit taller and the underline on the 1908 should line up with the line that says LT WT 55600, but I am going to guess that you already know this. > Thanks very much and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: sprinthag@... > Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 13:58:05 -0600 > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > > Group, Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become the whole set Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today's world, no guarantees. Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual printing. John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15741	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

On Jan 1, 2011, at 1:58 PM, John Hagen wrote: > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > Group, > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don > or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to > see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. .......... > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When > printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), > all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at > the time of actual printing. > John, Very nice work........ I'll continue to regard the 'must be black artwork approach' as Option B, used most often to overlay repeated printings of some colors to blend into shades or intensify the color. My point is moot since the Alps are no longer being made. But I'm going to stick with using the specific Alps colors in a project and letting the printer make it's automatic four spot print passes on it's own, Method A, for most Alps printing. If the alps was still in production, Method A would make it seem less difficult to work with, and a less intimidating printer to a novice. Now if there was only a currently made printer that also had white ink........... Dang! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15742	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Train comic book

Attachments : PC260039.jpg PC260037.jpg Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

Interesting. It appears to pre-date ZIP codes, so it has to be from no later than the late 1950s then. Other than that, I have no idea when this might have been made, but it sure would be interesting to find out, and if there were other rail topics covered in other books too. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM   Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15744	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Eastern Car Works

Took a peek on HOSeeker, nothing. I have (tonight) a new kit, PRR 4-wheel P-70, I think #1032. Not yet sure what I am going to do with it.....nice looking, tho. Any idea on age spread of company? The instructions show a ZIP code, so later than 1963. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15745	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

I spoke too soon. Found out on mycomicshop.com that it is from 1959. It seems they published several different comics during the 1950's. Now I may have to put my comic book children (hurleysheroes.com) on the look out for the rest of the set. Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Interesting. It appears to pre-date ZIP codes, so it has to be from no later than the late 1950s then. Other than that, I have no idea when this might have been made, but it sure would be interesting to find out, and if there were other rail topics covered in other books too. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: > > From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below] > > > > Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape. >  Kent Hurley > Kansas City, MO > > > > Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15746	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works

Ah-ha! 1984 to current. Not necessarily "vintage". I may assemble it.....may even remove the lettering....who knows...... > > Took a peek on HOSeeker, nothing. > I have (tonight) a new kit, PRR 4-wheel P-70, I think #1032. > Not yet sure what I am going to do with it.....nice looking, tho. > > Any idea on age spread of company? > The instructions show a ZIP code, so later than 1963. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15747	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed

On 1/1/2011 2:53 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Group, > > I checked on HO Seeker, and did not find what I am looking for: The > diagram to a metal and wood 85' Heavyweight observation car. > > Does anyone have a copy they could scan in? I have two of these cars, > and need to know where the prism windows go. I got one car that works > mechanically, but was cosmetically pretty ratty. After removing the roof > (Was held down only by a screw through the deck, I pulled out the > damaged celluloid window inserts (No prism windows - all clear), and > have replaced this. I got tons of prism window inserts, but need to know > what windows used them... > > Also, upon checking again, there is no 85' dining car diagram, same > problem: Where do the prism windows go on that car? > > Any help is most appreicated! Been spending the day listening to my 78 > RPM records and finally tackling fixing up a bunch of Walthers cars that > needed repairs. > > -Steve Neubaum > > > The prism window glass goes in the rest room windows, for privacy. There is a rest room at each end of the car, one for ladies, one for gentlemen. The rest room only occupies one side of the car. So you want one piece of prism glass in the end window of each side. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15748	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

On 1/1/2011 9:00 PM, nvrr49@... wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from nvrr49@... included below] > > Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads? There > does not seem to be any date in it. Other than yellowing from age, the > comic book looks in great shape. That looks very familiar. I think I may have had one in my youthful days. Can't tell you anything more about it though. -- Rick Jones Why didn't Noah just swat those two mosquitoes?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15749	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

Kent:   You trimmed off the date on the second photo, it is just to the left. Each publication has print run information such as the date and quantity of the run (for example, “3-60-2,000M – G.B.P.” indicates that printing date was March of 1960, 2 million copies and the printer or manufacturer identification). All of these publications are noted as “Printed in the U.S.A.”, as would have been standard practice at the time.   Larry     --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below] Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/ Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... 2 of 2 Photo(s) PC260037.jpg PC260039.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15750	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

Attachments : CD Flyer 02 2010.pdf Kent:   One of the comic books I wrote about in my eBook "Publications of the AAR: The Comic Book Premiums - ISBN 978-0-9844006-5-2".   Larry --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below] Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/ Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... 2 of 2 Photo(s) PC260037.jpg PC260039.jpg

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15751	From: Sam	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works

The "Eastern Car Works" cars were formerly "E&B Valley Railroad Co." Sam --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > > Ah-ha! > 1984 to current. > Not necessarily "vintage". > I may assemble it.....may even remove the lettering....who knows...... > > > > > > Took a peek on HOSeeker, nothing. > > I have (tonight) a new kit, PRR 4-wheel P-70, I think #1032. > > Not yet sure what I am going to do with it.....nice looking, tho. > > > > Any idea on age spread of company? > > The instructions show a ZIP code, so later than 1963. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15752	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book

The long out of production AHM/Rivarossi HO Lincoln's coach. I think it was from the mid 1960's Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 1, 2011, at 10:09 PM, Rick Jones wrote: > On 1/1/2011 9:00 PM, nvrr49@... wrote: >> [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from nvrr49@... included below] >> >> Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads? There >> does not seem to be any date in it. Other than yellowing from age, >> the >> comic book looks in great shape. > > That looks very familiar. I think I may have had one in my youthful > days. Can't tell you anything more about it though.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15753	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Cannonball Car Shops /Cannonball Car Shops Conversion Kit listing.xls Uploaded by : nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> Description : Cannonball Car Shops Conversion Kit listing You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cannonball%20Car%20Shops%20/Cannonball%20Car%20Shops%20Conversion%20Kit%20listing.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15754	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Walthers

Attachments : OSTUCO_Wal_01.pdf First, thanks to Vic for posting the photo of the Varney car with the artwork.   I have attached the Walthers car artwork. I am fairly certain it will work but will first try it on my Walthers gon when it arrives.   Also, I did lighten the weight of the numbers on this set. If it looks ok I’ll transfer them to the Varney set.   John Hagen

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15755	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed

Not sure exactly which kits you have but I have the sheets for the 7801 4 Compartment Observation and the 7815 Pennsy Diner. My scanner is down, but I'll scan them at work today and send them along tonight if they'll help. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed > Group, > > I checked on HO Seeker, and did not find what I am looking for: The > diagram to a metal and wood 85' Heavyweight observation car. > > Does anyone have a copy they could scan in? I have two of these cars, and > need to know where the prism windows go. I got one car that works > mechanically, but was cosmetically pretty ratty. After removing the roof > (Was held down only by a screw through the deck, I pulled out the damaged > celluloid window inserts (No prism windows - all clear), and have replaced > this. I got tons of prism window inserts, but need to know what windows > used them... > > Also, upon checking again, there is no 85' dining car diagram, same > problem: Where do the prism windows go on that car? > > Any help is most appreicated! Been spending the day listening to my 78 RPM > records and finally tackling fixing up a bunch of Walthers cars that > needed repairs. > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15756	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]

Hi John, It looks really good, with the exception of the 1 in 1908.  It looks a bit heavy when I looked at the pdf. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 20:15:50 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] First, thanks to Vic for posting the photo of the Varney car with the artwork.   I have attached the Walthers car artwork. I am fairly certain it will work but will first try it on my Walthers gon when it arrives.   Also, I did lighten the weight of the numbers on this set. If it looks ok I’ll transfer them to the Varney set.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15757	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers

Maybe it's my eyesight, but to me, the outline of the State of Ohio is too wide. Does anyone else see it? Is 'the master' also too wide? On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi John, It looks really good, with the exception of the 1 in 1908.  It looks a bit heavy when I looked at the pdf. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 20:15:50 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] First, thanks to Vic for posting the photo of the Varney car with the artwork.   I have attached the Walthers car artwork. I am fairly certain it will work but will first try it on my Walthers gon when it arrives.   Also, I did lighten the weight of the numbers on this set. If it looks ok I’ll transfer them to the Varney set.   John Hagen   -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15758	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]

Should the car be yellow or gray?   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15759	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers

According to the prototype information that I have, it should be Lemon Yellow with Red Oxide underbody and trucks.  I have never heard of a gray prototype OSTUCO car, but have seen some AHM (Rivarossi) cars in a gray color. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:37:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Walthers   Should the car be yellow or gray?   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15760	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15761	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Have lots of 'em. How many do you need?   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:30:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15762	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Hi Art- That was a quick reply! I could use ten pair (or what you can spare). I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time and I would conceivably buy all you have. What would you like for these? Thanks for your help-  Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:37:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Beauty coupler swing hangers   Have lots of 'em. How many do you need?   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:30:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15763	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Richard, Hate to discuss business in a public forum. Send me your email address.   Art W luvprr@...   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:59:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hi Art- That was a quick reply! I could use ten pair (or what you can spare). I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time and I would conceivably buy all you have. What would you like for these? Thanks for your help-  Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:37:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Beauty coupler swing hangers   Have lots of 'em. How many do you need?   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:30:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com   &n bsp; vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15764	From: al45390	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15765	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Walter, I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use gear cutting oil (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these American Beauty cars beautiful.   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 7:21:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bayerw2@... writes: Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15766	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Hi Walter- Yes I drill the sides for handrails. I use a Micro-Mark mini-drill press, without which I could not accomplish the drilling accurately. I have made a little jig out of a small rectangular piece of thin brass. I made it so that the two holes for the handrail ends (about 0.020" dia. or so) are correctly aligned on the car side when the side and bottom edges of the jig are even with the car side and bottom edge. Then I clamp the jig into place with a small clamp, place the whole side on a block of wood, and drill through the jig and into the car side, using the drill press. This goes quite rapidly once you get used to the set up. I use 0.018" stainless steel wire for the handrails (as the handrails on streamlined cars were generally stainless steel). I use 0.018" steel music wire (that I've blackened with gun blue) for the roof hand grabs. The handrails could be 0.020" or so, as it suits you. I like the 0.018", which I order from Small Parts, Inc., online. Another hint for American Beauty cars: I remove the center sill from the car bottom 1-7/16" from each car end, so that the car bottom is flush in those areas. This allows the coupler swing hangers and brackets (and the couplers) to be mounted at the correct height. Otherwise you have to boost the whole car up at the trucks to get the correct coupler height. I don't use the diecast truck bolsters either. Since I've removed 1-7/16" of center sill, and the trucks mount at 1-9/16" from the end of the car, I just drill a hole at 1-9/16", place a 1/16" thick plastic or rubber washer there, and screw the trucks directly to the center sill. Works great! I hope all this is helpful! Let me know how it goes, or email me if you need further help. I can send a photo of the coupler setup. I love the American Beauty cars. I have about eight each of Illinois Central and Chicago Northwestern, and a couple of New York Central. Regards- Richard    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 00:20:52 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty cars   Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15767	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Useful tips. Thank you Art W. I will keep a few hard copies as well as the e-text for my use. Walter On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:47 PM, <luvprr@...> wrote:   Walter, I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use gear cutting oil (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these American Beauty cars beautiful.   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 7:21:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bayerw2@... writes: Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15768	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Hi Guys, Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15769	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

On 1/3/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Walter, > I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American > Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when > I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the > holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or > words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you > don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not > a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use /_gear cutting oil_/ > (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so > that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them > and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation > where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit > will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a > drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from > breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work > and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit > and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only > broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was > experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing > between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig > for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct > spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with > the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the > holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is > self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing > that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked > indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand > and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and > plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help > too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure > that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are > extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't > imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. > It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these > American Beauty cars beautiful. > Art W I assume the drill bit you are speaking of is actually a #75 rather than an #15. Funny. I never drill under power with bits that small. Even the slowest speed is too fast, and the power drills have enough torque to snap the bit. I always drill holes that size by hand with a pin vise. Clamp the work, and go slowly. If the bit encounters resistance, back off. Art's remarks about lubrication are right on. Even a drop of plain old 3-in-1 oil is very helpful. Center punching the hole is crucial. Without a punch mark to guide the bit, the bit skids around on the sheet metal and the hole starts just about anywhere. For #75 bits a regular shop center punch is too big. I use an awl or a scribe and just press down hard with a hand, no hammer required. If you make a template to get the hole spacing right, use the template to guide the centerpunch rather than the drill bit. Back in the day, building the old Walthers passenger cars, the kind with stamped metal sides and wood roof & floor, I was always able to drill for handrails with out much drill breakage. I cannot claim I never broke a #75 drill bit, but I didn't break them all that often. So, those of you lacking a drill press can go ahead,with just a pin vise and drill for success. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15770	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

David, You're right about the #75 drill bit. I was trying to remember what the directions said and misquoted them. However, regarding using a pin vise to drill the holes, if you can drill through that solid steel by hand you're a better man than most of us--or have an infinite amount of time. The steel of the American Beauty cars is extremely hard. I would drill holes that small by hand myself if the material wasn't so hard and have done so with softer metals. Also, to get a deep enough hole with an awl or similar tool in the steel for a #75 drill bit to bite into that metal well enough to continue by hand would make me wonder what would happen to the resulting paint on the opposite side where the resulting pimple of metal would be. In any case I'm not sure what the advantage would be to hand-drill them as a small drill press (at slowest speed) does do a faster and satisfactory job with the gear cutting oil. Whatever works for ya I guess. . . .   Art W   In a message dated 1/4/2011 10:48:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dstarrboston@... writes: On 1/3/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Walter, > I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American > Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when > I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the > holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or > words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you > don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not > a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use /_gear cutting oil_/ > (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so > that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them > and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation > where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit > will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a > drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from > breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work > and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit > and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only > broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was > experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing > between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig > for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct > spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with > the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the > holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is > self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing > that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked > indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand > and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and > plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help > too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure > that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are > extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't > imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. > It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these > American Beauty cars beautiful. > Art W I assume the drill bit you are speaking of is actually a #75 rather than an #15. Funny.  I never drill under power with bits that small.  Even the slowest speed is too fast, and the power drills have enough torque to snap the bit.    I always drill holes that size by hand with a pin vise.  Clamp the work, and go slowly.  If the bit encounters resistance, back off.  Art's remarks about lubrication are right on.  Even a drop of plain old 3-in-1 oil is very helpful.    Center punching the hole is crucial.  Without a punch mark to guide the bit, the bit skids around on the sheet metal and the hole starts just about anywhere.  For #75 bits a regular shop center punch is too big.  I use an awl or a scribe and just press down hard with a hand, no hammer required.    If you make a template to get the hole spacing right, use the template to guide the centerpunch rather than the drill bit.    Back in the day, building the old Walthers passenger cars, the kind with stamped metal sides and wood roof & floor, I was always able to drill for handrails with out much drill breakage.  I cannot claim I never broke a #75 drill bit, but I didn't break them all that often.    So, those of you lacking a drill press can go ahead,with just a pin vise and drill for success. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15771	From: Richard White	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Hi Art and David- I've had no trouble drilling holes with my Micro-Mark drill press with bits down to #76. (As I mentioned in my post, I use 0.018 stainless wire for car side handrails and 0.018 music wire for the roof grabs). The drill won't chuck any smaller ones. I've had no trouble with breakage as long as I'm centered on the hole. With the brass jig clamped (or taped) into place there's no problem with the bit "wandering." No center punching is necessary. And since the American Beauty car sides are rather soft steel, I haven't needed to use cutting oil (but it doesn't hurt, for sure). I should add that in locations where there is no wood backing, I glue a small piece of stripwood behind the holes, so that the wire handrail can be positioned a realistic distance from the car side.  Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dstarrboston@... Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:48:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty cars   On 1/3/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Walter, > I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American > Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when > I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the > holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or > words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you > don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not > a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use /_gear cutting oil_/ > (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so > that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them > and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation > where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit > will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a > drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from > breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work > and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit > and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only > broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was > experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing > between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig > for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct > spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with > the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the > holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is > self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing > that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked > indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand > and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and > plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help > too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure > that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are > extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't > imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. > It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these > American Beauty cars beautiful. > Art W I assume the drill bit you are speaking of is actually a #75 rather than an #15. Funny. I never drill under power with bits that small. Even the slowest speed is too fast, and the power drills have enough torque to snap the bit. I always drill holes that size by hand with a pin vise. Clamp the work, and go slowly. If the bit encounters resistance, back off. Art's remarks about lubrication are right on. Even a drop of plain old 3-in-1 oil is very helpful. Center punching the hole is crucial. Without a punch mark to guide the bit, the bit skids around on the sheet metal and the hole starts just about anywhere. For #75 bits a regular shop center punch is too big. I use an awl or a scribe and just press down hard with a hand, no hammer required. If you make a template to get the hole spacing right, use the template to guide the centerpunch rather than the drill bit. Back in the day, building the old Walthers passenger cars, the kind with stamped metal sides and wood roof & floor, I was always able to drill for handrails with out much drill breakage. I cannot claim I never broke a #75 drill bit, but I didn't break them all that often. So, those of you lacking a drill press can go ahead,with just a pin vise and drill for success. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15772	From: jay matz	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Stean Gold lettering Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15773	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Hi Sean, At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > Thanks, > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15774	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Sean, I rearranged some wording as I was composing the last post, and I now see that I left out the year of the Mantua catalog of that First Edition which depicts the color photo of the train model. The color rear covers of the catalogs started in 1942. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean, > > At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15775	From: mrkeitho	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15776	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Thanks Ray and everyone!!   I think I have settled upon Yellow... but we will see.   I am excited to finally have the complete line of the larger pre-war mantua locomotives. Want to do them up right!   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 12:04:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color   Sean, I rearranged some wording as I was composing the last post, and I now see that I left out the year of the Mantua catalog of that First Edition which depicts the color photo of the train model. The color rear covers of the catalogs started in 1942. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean, > > At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15777	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Congratulations ! Would love to see photos of your Mantua locomotive collection. Happy New Year, Dennis At 08:11 PM 1/4/2011, you wrote: Thanks Ray and everyone!!   I think I have settled upon Yellow... but we will see.   I am excited to finally have the complete line of the larger pre-war mantua locomotives. Want to do them up right!   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 12:04:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color   Sean, I rearranged some wording as I was composing the last post, and I now see that I left out the year of the Mantua catalog of that First Edition which depicts the color photo of the train model. The color rear covers of the catalogs started in 1942. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean, > > At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15778	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Phx,   Love to know the answer to that one myself. I do have some vintage Globe boxcar kits with their shade of boxcar red that I needed to touch up. The directions in the kits stated what paint company's color they used back then. I checked with back articles of Model Railroader but they were of no help in matching colors of that now defunct company. I was distraught to the point where I finally bit the bullet and tried mixing some shades of Floquil reds. Danged if I didn't come up with virtually an exact match! Using a mix of Floquil boxcar red, oxide, and caboose red I was able to do so. I have no idea what boxcar red Ambroid used, but there is usually someone on this site that has an answer to construction and paint problems of all types. I suspect that you will have to use a fair amount of paint in experimenting to get a match. I know of no magic solution though there might be a paint store that has some way to analyze old paint. The problem with that would be that the answer would be in using their paint! I was fortunate to have to use only a partial bottle of each color/shade to find the right one. Good luck with it.   Art W       In a message dated 1/4/2011 11:06:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, atrains@... writes: Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red".  I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest  what to do regarding the colors not matching?     This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15779	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you.  Been there done that, in HO.  I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well.   I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago.  Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering.  I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit.  The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match.  Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red,  about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red.  Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red.  The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need.  Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces.  When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used.  Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint.  You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?   Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15780	From: Richard White	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Hello Keith and Vic- I find the Floquil boxcar red too much on the brown side, so I mix a bit of Floquil caboose red until I get the shade I want- which is more to the "red" side. Cheers- Richard White    To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?   Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you.  Been there done that, in HO.  I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well.   I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago.  Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering.  I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit.  The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match.  Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red,  about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red.  Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red.  The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need.  Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces.  When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used.  Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint.  You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?   Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15781	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

You may want to take a shot at Floquil Tuscan Red too, that is "redder". Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hello Keith and Vic- I find the Floquil boxcar red too much on the brown side, so I mix a bit of Floquil caboose red until I get the shade I want- which is more to the "red" side. Cheers- Richard White To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you. Been there done that, in HO. I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well. I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago. Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering. I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit. The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match. Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red, about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red. Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red. The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need. Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces. When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used. Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint. You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15782	From: Glenn	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

There is a similar question in MR thisd issue. Souinds like a worthwhile project would be to figure out the paint mixes to these old paints using currently available paints and eventually publish the results. MR ? referred to 4-10-M paint. MDC/Roundhouse had a similar line. gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? You may want to take a shot at Floquil Tuscan Red too, that is "redder". Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hello Keith and Vic- I find the Floquil boxcar red too much on the brown side, so I mix a bit of Floquil caboose red until I get the shade I want- which is more to the "red" side. Cheers- Richard White To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you. Been there done that, in HO. I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well. I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago. Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering. I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit. The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match. Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red, about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red. Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red. The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need. Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces. When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used. Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint. You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15783	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: OSTUCO decals

I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15784	From: Keith O.	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

 Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15785	From: Glenn	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

I have  a bunch of Roundhouse cars that need matching paint.  My thought was that perhaps as we find matches for these old brands,  we record our findings for others to use.  gj   From: Keith O. Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15786	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

What has worked for me before is to select a paint that is somewhat close to the right color. Then to darken or lighten as needed with some drops of black or white. I did this with a model RR car that had been assembled almost 50 years ago with factory prepainted sides using a long out of production line of model paint with all other parts in bare metal. Mixed by eye and air-brushed on, the blended Scalecoat-1 I used became an identical match. I thought the final result was magical. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 5, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Keith O. wrote: >  > > Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn, > I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not > matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I > will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad > "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will > also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but > does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on > the mixture and post my results.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15787	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Finally found the record of what I used to match the Globe boxcar red on the vintage kits (I suspect they used 410M paint back then as companies avoided "re-inventing the wheel" just for their products and model makers often used materials from the same source). It is: 1 part Floquil Boxcar Red, 2 parts Red Oxide, and 3 parts Caboose Red. It's possible that Ambroid used the same popular 410M paint of the period--if indeed that's what I was in effect matching. As far as Mike B's use of white with the Scalecoat I to lighten the selected color, that is a good possibility too.  In any case there is a large difference among paint companies, and mixing different brands is definitely not recommended. Even Scalecoat advised me not to mix their formula I with formula II when I emailed them about it. This whole business of matching colors could get expensive for sure, and I thought an article I read about matching original vintage bike colors was interesting where they pointed out that matching colors for restoration was purely a combination of chemistry and magic as few paint companies keep color formula charts for the use of the general public..   Art W             In a message dated 1/6/2011 3:02:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, glenn476@... writes: I have  a bunch of Roundhouse cars that need matching paint.  My thought was that perhaps as we find matches for these old brands,  we record our findings for others to use.  gj   From: Keith O. Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15788	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

That sounds like the right thing to do.  I wonder how many people know that Ambroid also produced an UN-PAINTED version of this car and provided decals?  That was obviously the best choice.  That way, you could paint it a single color without mixing.  However, I have photos of the prototype and the Ambroid pre-painted color is just about right, so if you want to try to match the prototype, you will need to mix colors. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 21:59:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15789	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

YAY!!!!  I should be sending my payment this weekend, probably via PayPal.  I will send another email after I sent my payment with the quantity I need, at least two sets. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15790	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

I have found that Scalecoat seems to match better on many of the vintage kits, Silver Streak, etc. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15791	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Matching paint colors to these older kits and cars is challenging, to say the least. There are two primary reasons: the makers of the original paints (primarily Stewart-Lundahl 410M, but others- Roundhouse, Super, etc.) are long out of business, as are their formulations; and more importantly, the paints of these earlier kits, etc. contained lead, - which then became illegal, and prompted mass reformulations of all model paints. Since vibrant red colors largely depend upon the presence of lead, the red paints suffered the most- and continue to do so. That "boxcar red' was a generic commodity-type paint color (like "barn red"), even on the prototype, such paints also varied a great deal not only from manufacturer to manufacturer, but also from railroad to railroad, or between cars on a single railroad. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15792	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

According to the Ambroid instruction sheet for the ventilated (watermelon) boxcar, they used Floquil Boxcar Red, but as we all know, the new Floquil is nothing like the old Floquil, the issue.  I have no doubt the old Floquil had lead in it, but it was also a lacquer based paint and now it is an oil based paint. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 10:17:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?     Finally found the record of what I used to match the Globe boxcar red on the vintage kits (I suspect they used 410M paint back then as companies avoided "re-inventing the wheel" just for their products and model makers often used materials from the same source). It is: 1 part Floquil Boxcar Red, 2 parts Red Oxide, and 3 parts Caboose Red. It's possible that Ambroid used the same popular 410M paint of the period--if indeed that's what I was in effect matching. As far as Mike B's use of white with the Scalecoat I to lighten the selected color, that is a good possibility too.  In any case there is a large difference among paint companies, and mixing different brands is definitely not recommended. Even Scalecoat advised me not to mix their formula I with formula II when I emailed them about it. This whole business of matching colors could get expensive for sure, and I thought an article I read about matching original vintage bike colors was interesting where they pointed out that matching colors for restoration was purely a combination of chemistry and magic as few paint companies keep color formula charts for the use of the general public..   Art W             In a message dated 1/6/2011 3:02:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, glenn476@... writes: I have  a bunch of Roundhouse cars that need matching paint.  My thought was that perhaps as we find matches for these old brands,  we record our findings for others to use.  gj   From: Keith O. Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15793	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Decals Exist for Ohio Seamless Tube car

Hi Kent, I am not sure if you are on CC, but here is the info. John is ready to print out the Decals.  From what I read, one set includes decals for a 46' car and a 42' car, so it will do two cars.  Here is the information on how to order. ----------------------------------------------snip snip snip----------------------------------------------------------------------- I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen ----------------------------------------------snip snip snip----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: nvrr49@... Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:56:14 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Decals Exist for Ohio Seamless Tube car   I have responded direct to John that I wanted two sets. Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John, so far there are 3 people (including me) that want the decals. Two would like one set, and I would like 2 sets. I am hoping some others will respond this coming week. > Thanks and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15794	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

With respect to Scalecoat paint: I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red. One is more of a brown color and the other is redder. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15795	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Bill, You must be thinking of Boxcar Red and PRR Freight Car Red as they do not list 2 separate Boxcar Reds as such on their website.   Art W   In a message dated 1/6/2011 8:02:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... writes: With respect to Scalecoat paint: I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red.  One is more of a brown color and the other is redder. Bill DeFoe ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15796	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

I didn't know that. I want to remember that. Yesterday I looked at the Scalecoat site and saw a number of colors I want to stock up on. While I happen to like that paint, it's still a better buy than the other model paints. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 6, 2011, at 9:52 AM, nvrr49 wrote: > I have found that Scalecoat seems to match better on many of the > vintage kits, Silver Streak, etc. > > Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Tuscan Red ?? Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 6, 2011, at 7:16 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Bill, > You must be thinking of Boxcar Red and PRR Freight Car Red as they > do not list 2 separate Boxcar Reds as such on their website. > > Art W > > In a message dated 1/6/2011 8:02:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... > writes: > With respect to Scalecoat paint: > > I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red. One is > more of a brown color and the other is redder. > > Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15798	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Varney Yellowstone boiler casting

Hello group! I just received a Varney Yellowstone boiler casting that i just purchased on eBay. I was thinking when I bid on it that I was getting one that had been altered by having the cab roof cut off. It came today and after looking at it closely, I see that it looks to have been molded this way. I see NO cut marks and the edges seem to have the same texture as the rest of the casting. Were they made this way and if so, was the cab section in two pieces? If so, would anyone happen to have this second cab piece? See the photos I have posted here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5334016603/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5334632832/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5334632784/in/photostream/ Any thoughts? Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15799	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Yellowstone Body

Attachments : IMG_6615_2.JPG IMG_6614_1.JPG       Hi Sean,        Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states  "Cab roof screws onto cab proper "       I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece.                                                                Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15800	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Art and Mike, I apologize. I could have sworn I have seen two different Scalecoat colors marked BoxCar Red. I must be having a senior moment. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Tuscan Red ?? > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Jan 6, 2011, at 7:16 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > > > > > Bill, > > You must be thinking of Boxcar Red and PRR Freight Car Red as they > > do not list 2 separate Boxcar Reds as such on their website. > > > > Art W > > > > In a message dated 1/6/2011 8:02:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... > > writes: > > With respect to Scalecoat paint: > > > > I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red. One is > > more of a brown color and the other is redder. > > > > Bill DeFoe >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15801	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Final set

Attachments : OSTUCO_F.pdf This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color)   John Hagen

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15802	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Jim, Sean, Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs as a separate piece/part number. There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it in stock. In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably never know. Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it for some hardness and durability. Best regards, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15803	From: Mary Long	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

Super . Good stuff . This project took off well didn't it ? So , how much does the Godfather's [Walthers] 46' gondola cost these days ? Old Varney gons would probably be cheaper ? Sticker shock , haven't looked at Walthers since 1994 when I closed my shop !!  Again , nice work John . Hope that all goes well surgery wise . Henry H. --- On Sat, 1/8/11, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:38 AM   This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color)   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15804	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Art and Mike, I retract my apology. Scalecoat actually makes three shades of BoxCar Red. Here they are: Scalecoat I (for painting metal) 640-10132 BoxCar Red 640-10872 BoxCar Red #2 640-10882 BoxCar Red #3 Scalecoat II (plastic compatible) 640-20132 BoxCar Red 640-20872 BoxCar Red #2 640-20882 BoxCar Red #3 These numbers are for the 2oz bottles. They also have 1oz bottles but Walthers doesn't show those numbers in their 2009 catalog. I can't say which of these are more to the brown side and which are more to the red side, but having three shades to start with makes paint matching easier. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Art and Mike, > > I apologize. I could have sworn I have seen two different Scalecoat colors marked BoxCar Red. I must be having a senior moment. > > Bill DeFoe >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15805	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Sean, Ray,         Yes there was a third piece which Ray describes. If you look at the center of the paper / pictures I sent inside the circle " FIG 6 see page 5 " you will see this block with the words " This piece is driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. " ( I think we are talking about the same thing ) I didn't mention it as we were talking about the cab but had intended to mention it to Sean when I sent a copy to him.                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 4:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body   Hi Jim, Sean, Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs as a separate piece/part number. There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it in stock. In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably never know. Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it for some hardness and durability. Best regards, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15806	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

Walthers Catalog as of 30 minutes ago; 932-7450 Gold Line(TM) 46' USRA Steel Gondola Ready to Run -- Undecorated HO 19.98, Sale: 14.98. In stock? Y Decorated Gold Line are on sale at 11.98. Decorated Platinum Line arfe at regular Price of 21.98. Wednesday my son picked an undec up for me at a LHS of $12.00. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: > > Super . Good stuff . This project took off well didn't it ? So , how much does the Godfather's [Walthers] 46' gondola cost these days ? Old Varney gons would probably be cheaper ? Sticker shock , haven't looked at Walthers since 1994 when I closed my shop !!  Again , nice work John . Hope that all goes well surgery wise . Henry H. > > --- On Sat, 1/8/11, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:38 AM > > >   > > > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > > This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color) >   > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15807	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

Walthers Catalog as of 30 minutes ago; 932-7450 Gold Line(TM) 46' USRA Steel Gondola Ready to Run -- Undecorated HO 19.98, Sale: 14.98. In stock? Y Decorated Gold Line are on sale at 11.98. Decorated Platinum Line arfe at regular Price of 21.98. Wednesday my son picked an undec up for me at a LHS of $12.00. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: > > Super . Good stuff . This project took off well didn't it ? So , how much does the Godfather's [Walthers] 46' gondola cost these days ? Old Varney gons would probably be cheaper ? Sticker shock , haven't looked at Walthers since 1994 when I closed my shop !!  Again , nice work John . Hope that all goes well surgery wise . Henry H. > > --- On Sat, 1/8/11, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:38 AM > > >   > > > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > > This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color) >   > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15808	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Ray,   A mold of any sort would be awesome. I'll gladdly pay for yout time and materials. I would also need a profile of the third part as well. I have two of these yellowstone boilers and both ar missing this third part. The other yellowstone had the entire cab section taken off and a MDC 0-6-0 cab mounted... looks awkward to me anf I have been wanting a larger cab on it so i have a Kemtron cab-forward cab saved for it. (not the lil joe part, but the entire cab) Therefore I never saw an original unaltered boiler shell and had no way of knowing.   I have not mounted them to a frame yet and am having trouble seeing how the motor is to fit inside the boiler without severly hacking away at the inside of the boiler.   If you have a set of building plans for this locomotive, that would be awesome as well!   Thanks, Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:23:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body   Hi Jim, Sean, Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs as a separate piece/part number. There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it in stock. In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably never know. Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it for some hardness and durability. Best regards, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15809	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Eric and everyone I have created a section in the photos called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > Thanks! > Eric > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@...> > wrote: >> >> Eric and all >> >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. >> >> Duane Porter >> >> >> >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does >>> anyone here know anything about the company? >>> >>> Here are a few pics: >>> >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg >>> >>> -Eric >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15810	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Sean, I'll give it a shot, in trying to make a mold for this piece. Since it's not very elaborate nor that big it should be pretty straightforward, but I'll see how it goes. I've made a few casting before -- one was of the continuation of the rear portion of a Varney pre-War engine frame which was broke just after the last driver and missing from there back. Turned out fine; I casted it right onto the forward section as one piece. No promises here as to whether I'll be as successful, but I'll see if I can help you on this. As for the third part, I don't have any loose ones right now as whatever I had I've installed in the boilers, and it's a hammer/press fit. No way of removing them after they're installed. I'll try to get some pics though, and some measurements. The Varney plans for building the Yellowstone consist of 10 leaves (20 pages) of paper which I'd be glad to copy for you if you don't mind a wait. My printer quite a couple weeks ago, and I've been on the lookout for a reasonable replacement. I could Xerox them at the library if you'd like them sooner, no problem. You could also go to your Model Railroader magazines, if you have the May & June 1949 issues as there are plans for the Yellowstone in there two, as a two-part article with drawings. I'm not sure if it covers everything that Varney printed in his plans, but it is very good. Unless you're planning on using a Pitman DC-90, you shouldn't have to hack anything away inside the boiler. Varney used that large 6 volt V-1 (much larger in height than the V-2 that many modelers used later), and that fit without any clearance problems. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > A mold of any sort would be awesome. I'll gladdly pay for yout time and > materials. I would also need a profile of the third part as well. I have two of > these yellowstone boilers and both ar missing this third part. The other > yellowstone had the entire cab section taken off and a MDC 0-6-0 cab mounted... > looks awkward to me anf I have been wanting a larger cab on it so i have a > Kemtron cab-forward cab saved for it. (not the lil joe part, but the entire cab) > Therefore I never saw an original unaltered boiler shell and had no way of > knowing. > > > I have not mounted them to a frame yet and am having trouble seeing how the > motor is to fit inside the boiler without severly hacking away at the inside of > the boiler. > > > If you have a set of building plans for this locomotive, that would be awesome > as well! > > Thanks, > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: erieberk <erieberk@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:23:57 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body > >   > > > Hi Jim, Sean, > > Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass > boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra > one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few > years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone > boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs > were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs > as a separate piece/part number. > > > There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a > replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having > been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a > drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or > 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog > number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings > parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson > boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney > to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it > in stock. > > > In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined > Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly > from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting > only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the > main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab > roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," > as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 > catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. > > Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were > (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War > Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone > boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in > both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," > catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. > 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the > pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials > were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first > post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in > limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably > never know. > > Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the > Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War > boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a > separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as > listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along > with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the > Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which > is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my > new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it > is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, > it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in > there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding > the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its > elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This > proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & > Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that > piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its > thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper > tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in > with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the > boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom > for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. > > > If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand > how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the > description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still > couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for > this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be > the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to > approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but > it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it > for some hardness and durability. > > > Best regards, Ray F.W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof > >piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I > >don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15811	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 2:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] > This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo > color) > > > > John Hagen > > Payment for two sets went in the mail this afternoon. BTW, Milwaukee County residents (Mike?) the tax is 5.6%, and the postage is taxable too. Don't want to see John go to jail over 13 cents :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15812	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,              I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information  especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada.  I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ?  Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ?  Would love to dig out an A&B set myself.                                  Jim H                                                         ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Eric and everyone I have created a section in the photos called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > Thanks! > Eric > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@...> > wrote: >> >> Eric and all >> >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. >> >> Duane Porter >> >> >> >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does >>> anyone here know anything about the company? >>> >>> Here are a few pics: >>> >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg >>> >>> -Eric >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15813	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Jim I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > Jim H > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Eric and everyone > I have created a section in the photos > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > Thanks! > > Eric > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Eric and all > >> > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > >> > >> Duane Porter > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > >>> > >>> Here are a few pics: > >>> > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > >>> > >>> -Eric > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15814	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,            Thanks for the response and the information about the F-9 A&B units and the new diesel pictures you just added. I was just taking the information off one of the larger ads ( starts " At last " ) about the diesel units and the freight cars. It states the diesels are Canadian built and is why I asked about the bodies being plastic. You mention about the A unit being a Hobbytown drive and that ad mentions powered by a DC-90 motor which, if I remember that number right,  was mainly used for O gauge but was used on some HO. Hobbytown used it in their powered E units that I know of.        I have 6 CPR style Grant Hobbycraft cars. ( When I bought them the previous owner told me the company was Hobbycraft of Canada and I had no reason to believe otherwise  The recent post and the picture of an original box has changed that.)  I will have to check again which styles of passenger cars I have.  I know there are 4 different styles with two doubles. I bought them with no trucks but still not detailed with the plastic detail parts still in little bags but no O/B's. There was only one piece of paperwork with them that showed you, dependant on the type of car, where to add the bottom detail plastic parts and in what pre drilled holes. ( I just posted pictures under attachments a couple of days ago. )       I find all the information interesting and useful for filling in the history of a lesser known vintage HO item. I would like to add at least a powered A unit to my collection. I am wondering if the bodies came factory painted or did Grant Hobbycraft custom paint them or have someone do it  ?                                     Jim H               ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Jim I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > Jim H > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Eric and everyone > I have created a section in the photos > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > Thanks! > > Eric > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Eric and all > >> > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > >> > >> Duane Porter > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > >>> > >>> Here are a few pics: > >>> > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > >>> > >>> -Eric > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15815	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Jim I just looked at your pictures in the attachments section. What you have there photos of the full baggage car, which buy the way the CPR never had in the budd style only in smooth side, the dormitory baggage combination car that you thought might be a rpo, the coach and the manor class sleeping car that you thought might be the diner. As for the A units I have no idea where or who painted them. Of the two sets of A & B units that I do have they are both painted different. One set is pained the maroon and grey with yellow pin striping and the other is painted maroon and silver with yellow pin striping, the same silver that they used to paint the passenger cars with. By the way Grant Hobbycraft and Hobbycraft of Canada are two different company's Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Thanks for the response and the information about the F-9 A&B units and the new diesel pictures you just added. I was just taking the information off one of the larger ads ( starts " At last " ) about the diesel units and the freight cars. It states the diesels are Canadian built and is why I asked about the bodies being plastic. You mention about the A unit being a Hobbytown drive and that ad mentions powered by a DC-90 motor which, if I remember that number right, was mainly used for O gauge but was used on some HO. Hobbytown used it in their powered E units that I know of. > > I have 6 CPR style Grant Hobbycraft cars. ( When I bought them the previous owner told me the company was Hobbycraft of Canada and I had no reason to believe otherwise The recent post and the picture of an original box has changed that.) I will have to check again which styles of passenger cars I have. I know there are 4 different styles with two doubles. I bought them with no trucks but still not detailed with the plastic detail parts still in little bags but no O/B's. There was only one piece of paperwork with them that showed you, dependant on the type of car, where to add the bottom detail plastic parts and in what pre drilled holes. ( I just posted pictures under attachments a couple of days ago. ) > > I find all the information interesting and useful for filling in the history of a lesser known vintage HO item. I would like to add at least a powered A unit to my collection. I am wondering if the bodies came factory painted or did Grant Hobbycraft custom paint them or have someone do it ? > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Jim > I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. > They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. > I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. > What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Duane, > > > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Duane Porter > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > > > > > Eric and everyone > > I have created a section in the photos > > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > > > Duane Porter > > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Eric > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Eric and all > > >> > > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > > >> > > >> Duane Porter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > > >>> > > >>> Here are a few pics: > > >>> > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > > >>> > > >>> -Eric > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15816	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,          Some quick questions.       Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ?       Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ?  Did they sell or make HO trains ?       Thanks in advance.                                                Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 8:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Jim I just looked at your pictures in the attachments section. What you have there photos of the full baggage car, which buy the way the CPR never had in the budd style only in smooth side, the dormitory baggage combination car that you thought might be a rpo, the coach and the manor class sleeping car that you thought might be the diner. As for the A units I have no idea where or who painted them. Of the two sets of A & B units that I do have they are both painted different. One set is pained the maroon and grey with yellow pin striping and the other is painted maroon and silver with yellow pin striping, the same silver that they used to paint the passenger cars with. By the way Grant Hobbycraft and Hobbycraft of Canada are two different company's Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Thanks for the response and the information about the F-9 A&B units and the new diesel pictures you just added. I was just taking the information off one of the larger ads ( starts " At last " ) about the diesel units and the freight cars. It states the diesels are Canadian built and is why I asked about the bodies being plastic. You mention about the A unit being a Hobbytown drive and that ad mentions powered by a DC-90 motor which, if I remember that number right, was mainly used for O gauge but was used on some HO. Hobbytown used it in their powered E units that I know of. > > I have 6 CPR style Grant Hobbycraft cars. ( When I bought them the previous owner told me the company was Hobbycraft of Canada and I had no reason to believe otherwise The recent post and the picture of an original box has changed that.) I will have to check again which styles of passenger cars I have. I know there are 4 different styles with two doubles. I bought them with no trucks but still not detailed with the plastic detail parts still in little bags but no O/B's. There was only one piece of paperwork with them that showed you, dependant on the type of car, where to add the bottom detail plastic parts and in what pre drilled holes. ( I just posted pictures under attachments a couple of days ago. ) > > I find all the information interesting and useful for filling in the history of a lesser known vintage HO item. I would like to add at least a powered A unit to my collection. I am wondering if the bodies came factory painted or did Grant Hobbycraft custom paint them or have someone do it ? > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Jim > I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. > They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. > I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. > What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Duane, > > > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Duane Porter > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > > > > > Eric and everyone > > I have created a section in the photos > > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > > > Duane Porter > > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Eric > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Eric and all > > >> > > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > > >> > > >> Duane Porter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > > >>> > > >>> Here are a few pics: > > >>> > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > > >>> > > >>> -Eric > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15817	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Jim Yes they did have their own truck that had a spring mechanism on a tail piece opposite coupler that allowed the coupler to swing tight curves. These trucks came on the ready to run models. Thats what those springs that you have in your parts picture are for. I'll upload some more photos. Hobbycraft of Canada is still in business and makes the trueline series of Canadian freight cars and engines. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Some quick questions. > > Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ? > > Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ? Did they sell or make HO trains ? > > Thanks in advance.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15818	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,       Thank you again for the pictures and the responses to my questions. I appreciate them very much. I will print out our exchange and add it to my note books for future reference. Always available if I can return the favor.                                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Jim Yes they did have their own truck that had a spring mechanism on a tail piece opposite coupler that allowed the coupler to swing tight curves. These trucks came on the ready to run models. Thats what those springs that you have in your parts picture are for. I'll upload some more photos. Hobbycraft of Canada is still in business and makes the trueline series of Canadian freight cars and engines. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Some quick questions. > > Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ? > > Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ? Did they sell or make HO trains ? > > Thanks in advance.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15819	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Your welcome Jim. Grant Hobbycraft cars is a subject that is very dear to my heart. It was the CPR that I fell in love with as a teenager when I first started in the hobby back in the 60's. The CPR was the company that had all the Budd cars and I would get to ride them across Canada out to BC from Ottawa when we went to visit family. But here's the problem. When It came to getting a model of the CPR Budd cars the only thing that was on the market was cars from US manufactures that did not come close to the unique style that the CPR Budd cars had. So as a teenager I try'd to kitbash what I could get to make them closer to the CPR cars. I still have them and admire them for what they represent to me as the effort put forth in honing my skill as a model railroader. Anyway when I found out that that there had been a Canadian manufacture of the Budd cars that I really wanted then I started looking for them. I have a small fleet of them now, 37 of them and I plan run them on the new HO model railroad that I am building in my museum. The museum is about the Halifax & SouthWestern Railway that ran along the South Shore here in Nova Scotia and along with the artifacts form this railway line I have a 2,000 sq.ft. S scale layout depicting what the line looked like. So because I have this public model railroad display I end up getting donations of old trains. I've been getting allot of old HO that I have been putting up on display so you will for sure be hearing from me in the future. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Thank you again for the pictures and the responses to my questions. I appreciate them very much. I will print out our exchange and add it to my note books for future reference. Always available if I can return the favor. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 9:49 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Jim > Yes they did have their own truck that had a spring mechanism on a tail piece opposite coupler that allowed the coupler to swing tight curves. These trucks came on the ready to run models. Thats what those springs that you have in your parts picture are for. I'll upload some more photos. > > Hobbycraft of Canada is still in business and makes the trueline series of Canadian freight cars and engines. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Duane, > > > > Some quick questions. > > > > Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ? > > > > Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ? Did they sell or make HO trains ? > > > > Thanks in advance. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15820	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi John, I just sent $15.25 ($7.00 x 2 plus $1.25 for shipping) for TWO sets via Paypal.  I think Paypal provides my shipping address,but if not, let me know and I will send it to you. I sincerely hope your surgery goes well. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15821	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: More on matching paint

I recently needed to match the PRR Tuscan paint on a Blue Line car. I'm sure there are other folks out there with these Blue Line cars with poor paint. Being the paint is 60 years old this complicates things and is a dicey business at best. However, I managed to get really lucky and get very close. The following formula may not be exactly as I used as I wasn't as precise as I would have liked to have been. However, this is a very good place to start: Scale Coat Tuscan 5 parts; SC White 2 parts; SC Oxide Red 1 part. No doubt either the Scale Coat I or their Formula II would work color-wise, but do not use the Formula I over a Floquil Lt. Gray acrylic undercoat. It does not dry well. The Scale Coat II works well with that gray as it is made for plastics and seems to do well with acrylics. I did use the Floquil Lt. Gray as an undercoat and recommend it for paint jobs in general. I'm sure Scale Coat makes a great undercoat also.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15822	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint

Art, I have found that when painting brass locomotives that I can use Scalecoat I #10 Black as a primer. This dries with a high gloss and is very smooth. After it is completely dry, (I can no longer smell it), I come back with a black and gray mixture of either Scalecoat or Floquil for the finish coat. The Scalecoat I base coat is very durable and doesn't rub off with handling like Floquil does. I would presume that a light gray in the Scalecoat I line would work well for other colors. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > do not use the Formula I over a Floquil Lt. Gray acrylic undercoat. It > does not dry well. The Scale Coat II works well with that gray as it is made > for plastics and seems to do well with acrylics. I did use the Floquil Lt. > Gray as an undercoat and recommend it for paint jobs in general. I'm sure > Scale Coat makes a great undercoat also. > > Art W >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15823	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint

Bill, You're right. Apparently Scalecoat I is great for metals. When I want to use Floquil paint on brass or metals I use the acrylic (water soluble) gray Floquil undercoat. I agree that most Floquil paints rub off metals easily. I couldn't find any Floquil that would stay on metal worth a darn till I visited the Doylestown Car Company here in town a few years ago (O gauge brass trolley cars) where the builder used the acrylic Floquil gray undercoat on brass as a preference as that paint sticks well and gives you a non-shiny, flat finish which is great for other paints--including Scalecoat II. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself as brass is a bear to paint with many model paints as you know. I've since used the Floquil gray with great success though I do make sure the metal is thoroughly cleaned first.   Art   In a message dated 1/10/2011 7:58:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... writes: Art, I have found that when painting brass locomotives that I can use Scalecoat I #10 Black as a primer.  This dries with a high gloss and is very smooth.  After it is completely dry, (I can no longer smell it), I come back with a black and gray mixture of either Scalecoat or Floquil for the finish coat.  The Scalecoat I base coat is very durable and doesn't rub off with handling like Floquil does. I would presume that a light gray in the Scalecoat I line would work well for other colors. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > do  not use the Formula I over a Floquil Lt. Gray acrylic undercoat. It > does not dry  well. The Scale Coat II works well with that gray as it is made > for  plastics and seems to do well with acrylics. I did use the Floquil Lt. > Gray as  an undercoat and recommend it for paint jobs in general. I'm sure > Scale  Coat makes a great undercoat also. >  > Art W > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15824	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15825	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15826	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Vic,   It is a Varney car, but someone else did it and it does have decals.   I have had it for about 4-5 years now. I would guess the paint to be ~20-30 years old, so I have no way of knowing.   No plans to ever part with it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:20:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15827	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi again Sean, Well, you have a very special car.  It may indeed be a Varney gondola, but it is not any of the versions of the Varney Ostuco gondola that I have seen floating around.  Mine doesn't even have the H beam/I beam structure.  All of the Varney versions I have seen are 42 footers.  Some have a squared off structure, like yours, and others have a more rounded structure, but most of the Varney cars just have a plain old gondola end at both ends.  Yours looks like a 46 or 47 footer.  I suspect yours was kit bashed from some other Varney Gondola.  But, in any case, it is really cool and might be a candidate for upgrading by using the decals John Hagen is making for us. Thanks for showing us this really cool and unique car. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:33:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Vic,   It is a Varney car, but someone else did it and it does have decals.   I have had it for about 4-5 years now. I would guess the paint to be ~20-30 years old, so I have no way of knowing.   No plans to ever part with it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:20:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15828	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Vic,   I think someone altered the end, but they did a very nice job at it. The decal is a definate giv-away of it not being factory. I have always thought it to be a pretty cool car.. to bad I just have it boxed up and in storage for now. I would consider a repaint, but most likely never will. I have NO need for any more projects right now and i can see what would happen.. I would srtip the paint off, set it down and something else would come along...and thee it would sit...for years...   I will keep it just as it is and use it an an inspiration and example for my future projects when I do not have so much going on.   I am considering those decals by the way.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:56:57 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi again Sean, Well, you have a very special car.  It may indeed be a Varney gondola, but it is not any of the versions of the Varney Ostuco gondola that I have seen floating around.  Mine doesn't even have the H beam/I beam structure.  All of the Varney versions I have seen are 42 footers.  Some have a squared off structure, like yours, and others have a more rounded structure, but most of the Varney cars just have a plain old gondola end at both ends.  Yours looks like a 46 or 47 footer.  I suspect yours was kit bashed from some other Varney Gondola.  But, in any case, it is really cool and might be a candidate for upgrading by using the decals John Hagen is making for us. Thanks for showing us this really cool and unique car. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:33:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Vic,   It is a Varney car, but someone else did it and it does have decals.   I have had it for about 4-5 years now. I would guess the paint to be ~20-30 years old, so I have no way of knowing.   No plans to ever part with it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:20:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

That's the puppy. John did decals to duplicate that car, and also to do a second car that is more prototypical based on published plans. The decal set does one of each. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals Hi Guys.. Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car? I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/ Sean 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now). I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90). First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it. BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article. You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me. Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup. Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment. My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725 Thank you all for this your support. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15830	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault, not

Attachments : female_driver_compilation.wmv I like the one going through the security gate: >

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15831	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Must be uber-rare

http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15832	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15833	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

I can just imagine what eBay charged the fellow for his insertion fees, based on that minimum bid! Be careful out there, this almost happened to me too, when I was listing some stuff once, and something jammed under a key on my laptop. Glad I caught it at the last minute. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM   I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15834	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

 I once bid $7500.00 for a Marx engine & caboose. I tried to cancel the bid but the auction ended. I emailed the guy and told him I mis-bid. He still wanted me to buy the item at it's final sale price of $135.00. Told him I couldn't do it ... $75.00 was my top bid that I could afford. I think he sold it to the next high bidder. Gotta watch that damn decimal point!   Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare   I can just imagine what eBay charged the fellow for his insertion fees, based on that minimum bid! Be careful out there, this almost happened to me too, when I was listing some stuff once, and something jammed under a key on my laptop. Glad I caught it at the last minute. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM   I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15835	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

3d 4h left.....still at $3300. Maybe he (or she) doesn't understand "good-natured" manners? Sell 10 of those and go to Tahiti for a month. > > I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If > you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from > the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15836	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

My bid for this was meant to be $111.11   Anyone want to guess what I actually typed?   BRASS VARNEY 2 8 2 ENGINE WITH TENDER. Needless to say... It is still a mighty fine locomotive and looks good sitting on my display shelf here at work...  First time in 10+ years I ever did that. Think I got off pretty lucky if you ask me... Hopefully it was the last time too...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: My-Yahoo-Groups <yahoo-groups@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 9:37:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare    I once bid $7500.00 for a Marx engine & caboose. I tried to cancel the bid but the auction ended. I emailed the guy and told him I mis-bid. He still wanted me to buy the item at it's final sale price of $135.00. Told him I couldn't do it ... $75.00 was my top bid that I could afford. I think he sold it to the next high bidder. Gotta watch that damn decimal point!   Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare   I can just imagine what eBay charged the fellow for his insertion fees, based on that minimum bid! Be careful out there, this almost happened to me too, when I was listing some stuff once, and something jammed under a key on my laptop. Glad I caught it at the last minute. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM   I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15837	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,

OMG!!! I have two of them on the shelf in the basement. Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15838	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,

Misplaced keystroke while multitasking.  Fun, but not related to group. Sorry, Don --- On Wed, 1/12/11, madchemep2@... <madchemep2@...> wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15839	From: Randolph Torres	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: FOR SALE HO

Quality Craft HO kits blowout sale: Quality Craft Wood kit 70Ton Lumber Box Car                                                    5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit 85' Trailer Train Piggy Back Flat 2in1 kit                   5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Masurie Pacific Express Box                                         5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Norfolk & Western 86' HyCube Box                          5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Penn Central 4 Door HyCube Box                                               5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Pennsylvania Railroad 4 Door Box 86' HyCube BX               5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit F40' Automobile Pensylvania Railroad  Box          5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit 86' Penn Central 8 Door HyCube Box                        5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Pensylvania Railroad 86'4 Door HyCube Box         5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Pennsylvania Railroad H-31 Hop                                                5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Bulkhead Flat 2in1 Kit                                                     5.99 2 truck plastic Depressed Center flat (unknown mfg.)                                    5.99 Kits held for 7 days after end of sale, Pay Pal and Money Order only are accepted as payment. Contact me off group for availability basr244t@....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15840	From: Larry	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

Must have been a typo as it now stands at $ 2.99. I happen to model the Illinois Terminal and I have several of these. They are not rare by any means, but if anyone wants to offer me $3,300.00 for one, I will cover the shipping.  =^U^=   Larry Miller III --- On Tue, 1/11/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 11:23 PM http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15841	From: SaltNPepper WhoKnows	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare - Details about item: sent a message about MDC

FWIW:  Here's the sellers reply to my question regarding the price......     From: pennat_esi5849raz@... Subject: Re: Details about item: prandn sent a message about MDC ROUNDHOUSE 40' BOX CAR ITC #6304 NEW KIT #110633811938                         eBay sent this message to Loren Martell (prandn). Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more. Seller has responded to your question about this item Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.                         Dear , SORRY: SICK THE DAY I ENTERED THESE, THEN THREE DAYS MORE, NVR CHECKD MY AUCTIONS, PRICE NOW FIXED, AGAIN, SORRY - penna_track Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply From: prandn To: penna_track Subject: Details about item: prandn sent a message about MDC ROUNDHOUSE 40' BOX CAR ITC #6304 NEW KIT #110633811938 Sent Date: Jan-12-11 06:59:43 PST                                                 Dear penna_track, The opening price seems way out of line for an item like this. Is this really the actual price or do you not really want to sell this item or is it something else? Looking forward to your reply.                                                                                               MDC ROUNDHOUSE 40' BOX CAR ITC #6304 NEW KIT Item Id: 110633811938 End time: Jan-15-11 13:41:35 PST Seller: penna_track (1387) 100.0% Positive Feedback Member since Jun-28-01 in United States Location: OH, United States Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was active. Here are more items from this seller ATHEARN 50' BOX CAR B&O #475324 NEW RTR KATO GP-35 DIESEL SP #6023 NEW NEVER RUN ATLAS U33C DIESEL PENN CENTRAL PC #6540 NEVER RUN MDC ROUNDHOUSE OFFSET TRIPLE HOPPERS C&O 6 PK NEW KITS ATLAS C30-7 DIESEL N&W #8025 NEW NEVER RUN 1 Bid $7.99 Shipping: +$6.00 0 Bids $69.99 Shipping: +$8.00 0 Bids $47.50 Shipping: +$8.00 0 Bids $29.99 Shipping: +$8.50 0 Bids $47.50 Shipping: +$8.00 Visit seller's other items                                     Marketplace Safety Tip Keep your money safe - never pay for items with cash or instant money transfer services, such as Western Union or MoneyGram. In the past some sellers have exploited these payment methods in order to defraud buyers, so eBay has banned them from the site. Received a Second Chance Offer email? Double check that it's genuine: Second Chance Offer emails come directly from eBay and are shown in your My Messages. Trade safely. Beware of anyone who contacts you about buying or selling outside of eBay. When you trade outside of eBay, you're not able to leave feedback or take advantage of protection programs and case resolution tools available on eBay. Report an inappropriate email. eBay helps guard your privacy and online safety when you use our messaging tools. If you and the member you're contacting haven't bought or sold from each other recently, our tools may make both of your email addresses anonymous. Email reference id: [#a03-luqoqj62du#]_[#7cd63a11222a4eb59ffb15eed1d3a11b#] Please don't remove this number. eBay customer support may ask you for this number, if you should need assistance Learn More to protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails. Another eBay member sent this email to saltnpepper69@... through the eBay platform. eBay takes no liability for the sending of this email or its content Visit our Privacy Policy and User Agreement if you have any questions. You can report this message as unsolicited (spam/spoof) email. Copyright © 2010 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. eBay Inc. is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15842	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: American Beauty paint scheme

I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15843	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: PING to RUSS SHEIL!

G'Day Mate! I hope this message finds you safe and dry down under there! What is happening there sounds pretty scary! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15844	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

Sounds Like maybe Illinois Central.......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15845	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

Can you post a photo? Thanks Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:09 AM Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty paint scheme >I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of >Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and >three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee >Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now >thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually >lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15846	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Photo of American Beauty sides

Attachments : AB sides.jpg Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. Regards- Richard W.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15847	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides

GN, isn't it? > Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. > Regards- Richard W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15848	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment]

That looks "sort of" like Illinois Central, although the letterboard would also be brown. When I googled "Illinois Central Passenger Car" under images I did come up with a Lionel picture that looked like that. I wonder if someone painted out the IC lettering on the letterboard. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment] Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. Regards- Richard W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15849	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides

Not Illinois Central- on the AB sides the "brown" is actually Pullman Green. It has been pointed out to me that it is Great Northern, but the stripe placement is wrong- for GN the Pullman Green stripe should be much narrower, and below the belt line, not encompassing the windows. The three yellow pinstripes indicate GN, though. Maybe it is Great Northern "inspired!" I have one AB Great Northern car, the pendulum car, and the paint scheme is correct for GN on it. -Richard W.     To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:18:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Photo of American Beauty sides   That looks "sort of" like Illinois Central, although the letterboard would also be brown. When I googled "Illinois Central Passenger Car" under images I did come up with a Lionel picture that looked like that. I wonder if someone painted out the IC lettering on the letterboard. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment] Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. Regards- Richard W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15850	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

Hi Guys, I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. The situation is both funny and absolutely disgusting. I do want to make clear however, I, in no way intend for this topic to balloon into some huge eBay hating debate. I will however, leave it up to you to decide about future purchases from this seller.   Here it is:       Coal Tipples 230568966642   I originally purchased it because I wanted the wooden coal tower. It looked good from the front, but the there was no mention in the listing of the damage done to the piece. following:   When I complained to the seller, Here was his response: Me:   " Hello, Before I file a claim, I want you to know, the tipples came today and when I turned the wood one over (which is the only one I wanted) I saw the large HOLE in the back that had been CHEWED into it by the structures previous resident. Upon somewhat close inspection under a light, I was able to see the mouse crap stuck to the walls on the inside of the upper wood structure. I am throwing this in the trash and will be expecting a full and complete refund, including shipping. This is completely disgusting and completely un-called for. Thanks! Sean " Seller:   " The hole can be fixed and the auction states sold as is also could have parts missing or broke. So do what ever u want. There is no refund in which is also stated on my auction. The plastic coal tipple alone is worth $10.00. This is what the auction says:(The wood 1 needs some pieces reglued and some pieces missing. Sold as is.) These pieces were from a collection I got. "   Me:   "Dear overr1, Just to tell you how this is going to work. This will go in the trash. A claim will be immediately forthcoming with full disclosure on my part about the mouse hole with excrement stuck to the interior surfaces of the item. That claim will be immediately escalated to allow eBay & PayPal to assess the evidence and your correspondence. I will allow them to decide. As IS also means you need to be sure you disclose everything. I could care less about the hole. It is the mouse/rat remains inside that hole that really disgust me. I washed my hands tree times after handling the item and plan to NO more. Thank you. Sean - a69mustang4me   "   Seller:   " Well this is how's this going to go in my part. U are just a little cry baby. The only way u going to get your money back is u need to send both coal tipples back to me. This kind of issue happened before and I won. " Email I received this morning from Ebay/Paypal:   "Hi a69mustang4me, Good news! We issued you a refund of $15.20 on Jan 14, 2011 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please log in to PayPal to get your refund. This case is now closed, but you can view the details of the case in the Resolution Center." Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15851	From: RalphB	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: I knew it wasn't Varney

I received a hopper car in the mail yesterday. It had been identified by the eBay seller as a Varney car, but I knew it wasn't. I checked the HOSeeker site first and it appears that Varney only offered 2-bay open hoppers; the car on eBay was a 4-bay car. The photo was a little fuzzy, but it looked exactly like all the other Athearn 4-bay hoppers that I already have. On the positive side, I wanted another Athearn B&O 4-bay hopper for my coal train. While it's close to the W-2a class cars of the late 20's, I figure at least some of them had to last long enough to be seen with the later W-7 class cars which are represented by the MDC Roundhouse and Stewart 3-bay cars and Accurail W-9 class. Accurail offers decals for renumbering their cars so I ordered a set. Instead of using each 6-digit number as it comes on the sheet, I'll cut individual digits out and use them to renumber six times as many cars. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15852	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

Sean,  All             I know you were busy fighting your case with eBay and maybe didn't have time to see where the bidding on the item we were talking about ended.  300512750901  HO  Rivarossi Hiawatha Steam Engine. It was an incomplete engine ( no valve gear, rods, motor or drive) and minus the tender. I told you it was the factory painted body that was most important. Even if I had bid the $400 I originally planned I would have lost it. This item, especially the factory painted body, always goes for nice sums as you can see. I've seen the complete engine and tender go for $1500 ( poor to fair ) - $2000 and up for top of the line. I once saw this engine / tender with the full set of original cars up with a start of $5000. Yes originally Rivarossi had a full set of passenger cars which I have only seen once. Pretty nice prices for a non brass item.      Now before anyone jumps the gun this IS NOT the set that Walthers just came out with. This is the original HO item  that Rivarossi made back around 1950 and that Lionel was going to sell ( engine / tender only ) to match their O gauge item and even advertised it but then never did. However , along with Rivarossi, Polk's Hobby did sell it under their Aristo Rossi label.       This is one of those engines I talked about that many have no knowledge of. I am again sharing the information so if anyone sees one they know what it is even though it might hurt my chances of finding one in the end. I would rather see them preserved.       Down the road that Walther's issue will complicate trying to decide which is which if one comes on eBay.                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15853	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

Rambling thoughts (from a frequent ebay user)...   Interesting.  You might be surprised at my take on this.  But, for as shady as this seller appears, I think he was wronged.   "As-is" is "as-is".  However, I would agree that would be nullified if a fraud was committed.  And that may be the case here.   However, he has every right to have the item returned for the refund and not just give a refund.  If you aren't going to accept the item, it is not yours to throw away.  The seller may not know how really bad it is and why should he let you keep something "for free".  I believed you erred there.   In this case, Pay Pal sided with you and I hear that Pay Pal almost always goes against sellers.  And that's one of the reasons some sellers refuse to use Pay Pal.   I suggest that in such cases the first message give the benefit of the doubt (the seller may not have known how tacky the item is.  Some of these folks handle a lot of merchandise).  Also, not to include irrelevant information (such as it was the only part of the auction you were interested in).  And not unilaterally declare something that, from the sellers point of view, would seem absurd (such as throwing away the item AND expecting a refund).  Also, I would avoid capitalized shouting, vitriol, or sarcasm.  In many cases this just sets up a "who is more macho" exchange.  Of course, if that's the real goal, then fine and dandy.  If you want a quick resolution, perhaps not.   Other than the notion that you might get a happier resolution perhaps more quickly, it is otherwise self serving.  A seller who feels abused (rightly or wrongly) will tend to put you on their "block bidders" list.  Then they might have something you really want, perhaps without mouse droppings and such, and you will be barred.   But, after first trying to be nice, if the other guy then steps up to the plate as a jerk, I would then proceed to be not nice.  I could just walk away, but I am a fan of accountability so I do press issues and follow through.      Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.   Hi Guys, I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. The situation is both funny and absolutely disgusting. I do want to make clear however, I, in no way intend for this topic to balloon into some huge eBay hating debate. I will however, leave it up to you to decide about future purchases from this seller.   Here it is:       Coal Tipples 230568966642   I originally purchased it because I wanted the wooden coal tower. It looked good from the front, but the there was no mention in the listing of the damage done to the piece. following:   When I complained to the seller, Here was his response: Me:   " Hello, Before I file a claim, I want you to know, the tipples came today and when I turned the wood one over (which is the only one I wanted) I saw the large HOLE in the back that had been CHEWED into it by the structures previous resident. Upon somewhat close inspection under a light, I was able to see the mouse crap stuck to the walls on the inside of the upper wood structure. I am throwing this in the trash and will be expecting a full and complete refund, including shipping. This is completely disgusting and completely un-called for. Thanks! Sean " Seller:   " The hole can be fixed and the auction states sold as is also could have parts missing or broke. So do what ever u want. There is no refund in which is also stated on my auction. The plastic coal tipple alone is worth $10.00. This is what the auction says:(The wood 1 needs some pieces reglued and some pieces missing. Sold as is.) These pieces were from a collection I got. "   Me:   "Dear overr1, Just to tell you how this is going to work. This will go in the trash. A claim will be immediately forthcoming with full disclosure on my part about the mouse hole with excrement stuck to the interior surfaces of the item. That claim will be immediately escalated to allow eBay & PayPal to assess the evidence and your correspondence. I will allow them to decide. As IS also means you need to be sure you disclose everything. I could care less about the hole. It is the mouse/rat remains inside that hole that really disgust me. I washed my hands tree times after handling the item and plan to NO more. Thank you. Sean - a69mustang4me   "   Seller:   " Well this is how's this going to go in my part. U are just a little cry baby. The only way u going to get your money back is u need to send both coal tipples back to me. This kind of issue happened before and I won. " Email I received this morning from Ebay/Paypal:   "Hi a69mustang4me, Good news! We issued you a refund of $15.20 on Jan 14, 2011 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please log in to PayPal to get your refund. This case is now closed, but you can view the details of the case in the Resolution Center." Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15854	From: erieberk	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

In checking out your photo of the car in questions, I too thought it was orange with a broad BROWN stripe as this is the way itlooks to me. But if on your closer inspection, you can tell that it's really Pullman Green, this would be GN colors, but GN did not have a broad Pullman Green window stripe. Their scheme was orange with a Pullman Green letter board for the road name above the windows, and a somewhat narrower Pullman Green stripe below the windows for the car names. If it helps on future acquisitions, American Beauty never offered cars in Milwaukee Road paint. Yes, American Beauty USUALLY -- but not always -- lettered their cars. With the help of Chuck Higdon on here, I put an American Beauty spreadsheet up in the files on this list; it would seem that you didn't look far enough. While the color schemes are described, admittedly, there are no diagrams to show the actual schemes nor do the colors indicate "wide, "narrow" or other widths of the bands. The color scheme you have is not of any prototype railroad that AB produced. Can you tell if the paint is factory painted? Or is the paint too good to tell whether or not it's factory painted, when some skilled modeler may have painted it? Unknown to most AB collectors, this manufacturer produced a series of passenger cars, in both 85' and your shorty 65', "DO-IT-YOURSELF-SERIES" -- priced at only 50 cents less that their factory-prototype-painted cars. Aside from some modelers preferring to letter them for their private road, most modelers preferrred to buy their favorite prototype colors, which is why these cars are exceedingly rare. So if nothing else comes of this, your consolation is that you have a rare car (as it seems that's what you have, as just described), even within the American Beauty line of cars. Unless you can determine that the car was painted be a modeler, it does appear as though your shorty AB car was cataloged in the "XS" catalog lettering/numbering series (for the D-I-Y-S Series I mentioned above), with the Mail Baggage being XS-2. If you had the box, it would indicate this catalog number on the end of it. There was no lettering on them, but the modeler's choice of 24 different road name decals was offered -- by American Beauty -- with these kits, for 25 cents more. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15855	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

Thank you Ray, for researching this for me. My car definitely has a factory-paint job. Note that the glued in door are also Pullman Green, matching the stripe color. The original box (gray) has a label "MAIL BAGGAGE" glued on over where the catalog number would have been. "Short" has been penned in across that label. The instruction sheet, which may or may not be the original, is on yellow paper, titled "HO GAUGE BAGGAGE CARS," and is illustrated for a full-length car. I am assembling this car now, after having made some missing pieces (the end blocks) and I will paint the roof and side skirts in Pullman Green, and the underbody in black. I am going to "guesstimate" the locations of the underbody details, as the pieces for a full-length car won't all fit on this "shorty" car. As I mentioned earlier, I am grateful to Art W., who made this car available to me. Regards- Richard W.   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 20:26:05 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty paint scheme   In checking out your photo of the car in questions, I too thought it was orange with a broad BROWN stripe as this is the way itlooks to me. But if on your closer inspection, you can tell that it's really Pullman Green, this would be GN colors, but GN did not have a broad Pullman Green window stripe. Their scheme was orange with a Pullman Green letter board for the road name above the windows, and a somewhat narrower Pullman Green stripe below the windows for the car names. If it helps on future acquisitions, American Beauty never offered cars in Milwaukee Road paint. Yes, American Beauty USUALLY -- but not always -- lettered their cars. With the help of Chuck Higdon on here, I put an American Beauty spreadsheet up in the files on this list; it would seem that you didn't look far enough. While the color schemes are described, admittedly, there are no diagrams to show the actual schemes nor do the colors indicate "wide, "narrow" or other widths of the bands. The color scheme you have is not of any prototype railroad that AB produced. Can you tell if the paint is factory painted? Or is the paint too good to tell whether or not it's factory painted, when some skilled modeler may have painted it? Unknown to most AB collectors, this manufacturer produced a series of passenger cars, in both 85' and your shorty 65', "DO-IT-YOURSELF-SERIES" -- priced at only 50 cents less that their factory-prototype-painted cars. Aside from some modelers preferring to letter them for their private road, most modelers preferrred to buy their favorite prototype colors, which is why these cars are exceedingly rare. So if nothing else comes of this, your consolation is that you have a rare car (as it seems that's what you have, as just described), even within the American Beauty line of cars. Unless you can determine that the car was painted be a modeler, it does appear as though your shorty AB car was cataloged in the "XS" catalog lettering/numbering series (for the D-I-Y-S Series I mentioned above), with the Mail Baggage being XS-2. If you had the box, it would indicate this catalog number on the end of it. There was no lettering on them, but the modeler's choice of 24 different road name decals was offered -- by American Beauty -- with these kits, for 25 cents more. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15856	From: jerrygart5	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

Sean-Good for you!! Sounds as tho the seller may be related to the contents of your coal tipple. . . . Thanks for the heads-up!! Jerry Garteiser --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body > of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. > > > > Coal Tipples > 230568966642 > > > {Snip} >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15857	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail

Attachments : IMG_6667_3.JPG IMG_6666_2.JPG IMG_6665_1.JPG Hi Richard W,       These are pictures of the bottom detail for American Beauty Shorty passenger cars. I don't have a scanner so if these pictures are not helpful I will send you a copy if needed.  You can see it says to "Use this plan for Shorties"      I also have the roof detail plan for the Mail Baggage car Shorty if needed.      Hope this helps.                                             Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15858	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

So, just to be clear, the seller we should avoid is overr1? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:29:42 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.   Hi Guys, I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. The situation is both funny and absolutely disgusting. I do want to make clear however, I, in no way intend for this topic to balloon into some huge eBay hating debate. I will however, leave it up to you to decide about future purchases from this seller.   Here it is:       Coal Tipples 230568966642   I originally purchased it because I wanted the wooden coal tower. It looked good from the front, but the there was no mention in the listing of the damage done to the piece. following:   When I complained to the seller, Here was his response: Me:   " Hello, Before I file a claim, I want you to know, the tipples came today and when I turned the wood one over (which is the only one I wanted) I saw the large HOLE in the back that had been CHEWED into it by the structures previous resident. Upon somewhat close inspection under a light, I was able to see the mouse crap stuck to the walls on the inside of the upper wood structure. I am throwing this in the trash and will be expecting a full and complete refund, including shipping. This is completely disgusting and completely un-called for. Thanks! Sean " Seller:   " The hole can be fixed and the auction states sold as is also could have parts missing or broke. So do what ever u want. There is no refund in which is also stated on my auction. The plastic coal tipple alone is worth $10.00. This is what the auction says:(The wood 1 needs some pieces reglued and some pieces missing. Sold as is.) These pieces were from a collection I got. "   Me:   "Dear overr1, Just to tell you how this is going to work. This will go in the trash. A claim will be immediately forthcoming with full disclosure on my part about the mouse hole with excrement stuck to the interior surfaces of the item. That claim will be immediately escalated to allow eBay & PayPal to assess the evidence and your correspondence. I will allow them to decide. As IS also means you need to be sure you disclose everything. I could care less about the hole. It is the mouse/rat remains inside that hole that really disgust me. I washed my hands tree times after handling the item and plan to NO more. Thank you. Sean - a69mustang4me   "   Seller:   " Well this is how's this going to go in my part. U are just a little cry baby. The only way u going to get your money back is u need to send both coal tipples back to me. This kind of issue happened before and I won. " Email I received this morning from Ebay/Paypal:   "Hi a69mustang4me, Good news! We issued you a refund of $15.20 on Jan 14, 2011 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please log in to PayPal to get your refund. This case is now closed, but you can view the details of the case in the Resolution Center." Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15859	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail [3 Attachments]

Thanks, Jim. I was able to print your attachments and that will work just fine. I already have the roof detail plan. I appreciate your help. Regards- Richard W.   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:57:03 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below] Hi Richard W,       These are pictures of the bottom detail for American Beauty Shorty passenger cars. I don't have a scanner so if these pictures are not helpful I will send you a copy if needed.  You can see it says to "Use this plan for Shorties"      I also have the roof detail plan for the Mail Baggage car Shorty if needed.      Hope this helps.                                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15860	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

The original Rivarossi "Hiawatha" 4-4-2 is pretty crude, to say the least.  Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15861	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

I will agree that for a person seeking a highly detailed HO engine a streamlined Rivarossi 4-4-2 Hiawatha might not for them.  However for a vintage collector it doesn't matter if some might think it is crude. ( I believe it's on a par with other streamlined engines at the time like the Penn Line Crusader. ) It's a matter of taste but it is an extremely hard to find factory painted item and highly collectable engine that draws high prices.         To me it had one of the nicest working drive mechanisms at the time even using a miniature ball bearing set up to support the drive shaft. If you ever take one apart be ready as those little balls can fall out if not careful.                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: dennyanspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha   The original Rivarossi "Hiawatha" 4-4-2 is pretty crude, to say the least.  Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15862	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Help Identifying Locomotive

Hi all, I just acquired a brass B&O Ten Wheeler that was made in Japan and I would like to know more about the company. It appears strongly built and of a quality comparable to PFM and Akane. Very nicely detailed for a locomotive which I suspect was built in the sixties. The box is almost destroyed and falling apart but it states that it was built for The HO Train Co. of Philadelphia. I've posted three photos in the Photo section in my "Cinder Valley" album. I would appreciate any info. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15863	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15864	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals

Well, here’s the skinny. I was keeping everyone well updated until about noon Wednesday from my nice, WI-Fi equipped room at Froedtert Memorial Hospital. That was when the nice young men from Bell drove me from the hospital to Willowcrest Care Center, a sub-acute care facility in South Milwaukee. And what is “Sub-Acute?”  That’s insurance-speak a nursing home that has added rehab services to its PT and OT areas.  Since they are not acute-care facilities (Hospitals) they can’t charge as much for their rather meager-by-comparison services. Plus the insurance can consider them “Tier 2” facilities so they can charge higher deductibles and a nice 30% co-pay, saving themselves a bunch of cash that, for the most part, us, the victims of their corporate greed, get to pay. Interesting that during my 6-day stay, the hospital, in their insurance company flattering ways are want to do, were in such a hurry to get me out, that I was officially discharged twice (that I’m positive of, I think it was 3 times) before my true day of departure arrived. Anyway, once here, I fired up my trusty laptop only to discover there is no internet access for the in-mates…………..oops, I meant PATIENTS.  So now I had lost my connection to the outside world. Oh I still had my cell (no phones for the in-mates either) but I soon discovered that I did not have Don’s number with me and couldn’t locate it with my usual methods (same goes for you, Bauers). Well after getting some wildly overpriced , for my meager means at least, bids on service here, I found out that TWC is now offering WI-FI service to their customers. At $5.00/month for 2 years plus a onetime $25.00 hook-up. And for that they came in today (Sunday), installed a modem to get me up and running. It’s not really WI-FI yet as many health-care facilities still have problems with interference with wire-free stuff so this is a network cable deal until I go home. Then they will install the WI-Fi system at home, all included in the same price. So how does all this affect the decals? Well, da printer(s) I use are still at home.  But as of Tuesday, one of them will be here and printing will commence - - - - - I think. Failing that, I have some computer savvy sons, one or the other of which will go to my house and, with the phone on speaker, will follow my step-by-step instructions to do the printing. I shouldn’t be here more than two weeks but then I didn’t think I would not go home a day or two after the surgery. Thing is I really pushed myself to get the artwork done. In fact, I did the layout work over the weekend. So now it is all set to be printed and I really want it out ASAP. The artwork was on the challenging side so to get it to the point as quickly as I did is something I want to show in the speed of getting the finished product out. Thank you for your patience, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15865	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

A few well placed drops of a gap filling super glue should do the trick!!  That works on the S gauge version. Daryl On 1/16/2011 8:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15866	From: Glenn	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

JB Weld is conductive—you need insulation there—the “whitewalls” provide that—CA should do the jom—get the tire, whitewall,and center lined up squarwe-then flow the CA in.  Check with an NMRA gauge.   gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] AC Gilbert Drive Wheels   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15867	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals

Thanks for the update John.  Mostly we wish you to get well soon.  There is no rush for the decals. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:19:03 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals   Well, here’s the skinny. I was keeping everyone well updated until about noon Wednesday from my nice, WI-Fi equipped room at Froedtert Memorial Hospital. That was when the nice young men from Bell drove me from the hospital to Willowcrest Care Center, a sub-acute care facility in South Milwaukee. And what is “Sub-Acute?”  That’s insurance-speak a nursing home that has added rehab services to its PT and OT areas.  Since they are not acute-care facilities (Hospitals) they can’t charge as much for their rather meager-by-comparison services. Plus the insurance can consider them “Tier 2” facilities so they can charge higher deductibles and a nice 30% co-pay, saving themselves a bunch of cash that, for the most part, us, the victims of their corporate greed, get to pay. Interesting that during my 6-day stay, the hospital, in their insurance company flattering ways are want to do, were in such a hurry to get me out, that I was officially discharged twice (that I’m positive of, I think it was 3 times) before my true day of departure arrived. Anyway, once here, I fired up my trusty laptop only to discover there is no internet access for the in-mates…………..oops, I meant PATIENTS.  So now I had lost my connection to the outside world. Oh I still had my cell (no phones for the in-mates either) but I soon discovered that I did not have Don’s number with me and couldn’t locate it with my usual methods (same goes for you, Bauers). Well after getting some wildly overpriced , for my meager means at least, bids on service here, I found out that TWC is now offering WI-FI service to their customers. At $5.00/month for 2 years plus a onetime $25.00 hook-up. And for that they came in today (Sunday), installed a modem to get me up and running. It’s not really WI-FI yet as many health-care facilities still have problems with interference with wire-free stuff so this is a network cable deal until I go home. Then they will install the WI-Fi system at home, all included in the same price. So how does all this affect the decals? Well, da printer(s) I use are still at home.  But as of Tuesday, one of them will be here and printing will commence - - - - - I think. Failing that, I have some computer savvy sons, one or the other of which will go to my house and, with the phone on speaker, will follow my step-by-step instructions to do the printing. I shouldn’t be here more than two weeks but then I didn’t think I would not go home a day or two after the surgery. Thing is I really pushed myself to get the artwork done. In fact, I did the layout work over the weekend. So now it is all set to be printed and I really want it out ASAP. The artwork was on the challenging side so to get it to the point as quickly as I did is something I want to show in the speed of getting the finished product out. Thank you for your patience, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15868	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

Coincidentally, someone posted a reply to a similar question on the S-trains list very recently and the detailed advice quoted below should also work well on Gilbert HO. "If it is not too greasy, you can slide the tire toward the chassis and put a small bit of super glue around the white insulator and quickly press the tire back onto the insulator. Steve SnS Traiins....Boise" Dale Smith On 1/16/2011 5:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15869	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

So it sounds like superglue is the way to go then. I am not sure if what I have on hand will work on metal, but I will go and get something from the LHS that will, for sure, work. Thanks all! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/16/11, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: From: Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] AC Gilbert Drive Wheels To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 9:16 PM   Coincidentally, someone posted a reply to a similar question on the S-trains list very recently and the detailed advice quoted below should also work well on Gilbert HO. "If it is not too greasy, you can slide the tire toward the chassis and put a small bit of super glue around the white insulator and quickly press the tire back onto the insulator. Steve SnS Traiins....Boise" Dale Smith On 1/16/2011 5:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15870	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

If the tires are greasy, clean them with alcohol or mineral spirits.  Lacquer thinner will work well if you have it.  If the tire will spin on the white insulator, spin it after applying the cleaner to spread the cleaner and dissolve the grease/oil...  Clean the white tire with a pipe cleaner...  Continue until you get no oil or grease residue on the pipe cleaner...  Then apply the glue.  Even a latex based glue like Pliobond or Walthers Goo will also work...  Apply, let set until it will not stick to your finger and then twist the tire into place.  This works great on S gauge also.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in Va. ====================================================================================================== On 1/16/2011 10:19 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   So it sounds like superglue is the way to go then. I am not sure if what I have on hand will work on metal, but I will go and get something from the LHS that will, for sure, work. Thanks all! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/16/11, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: From: Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] AC Gilbert Drive Wheels To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 9:16 PM   Coincidentally, someone posted a reply to a similar question on the S-trains list very recently and the detailed advice quoted below should also work well on Gilbert HO. "If it is not too greasy, you can slide the tire toward the chassis and put a small bit of super glue around the white insulator and quickly press the tire back onto the insulator. Steve SnS Traiins....Boise" Dale Smith On 1/16/2011 5:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15871	From: Nelson	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

I was watching that auction, too, Jim. I was surprised to see parts for that loco still in factory packaging. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > I will agree that for a person seeking a highly detailed HO engine a streamlined Rivarossi 4-4-2 Hiawatha might not for them. However for a vintage collector it doesn't matter if some might think it is crude. ( I believe it's on a par with other streamlined engines at the time like the Penn Line Crusader. ) It's a matter of taste but it is an extremely hard to find factory painted item and highly collectable engine that draws high prices. > > To me it had one of the nicest working drive mechanisms at the time even using a miniature ball bearing set up to support the drive shaft. If you ever take one apart be ready as those little balls can fall out if not careful. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dennyanspach > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:54 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha > > > > The original Rivarossi "Hiawatha" 4-4-2 is pretty crude, to say the least. > > > > Denny > > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15872	From: Richard	Date: 1/19/2011
Subject: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15873	From: Matthew	Date: 1/20/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Richard, I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15874	From: Nelson	Date: 1/21/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > Matt Coleman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > Richard in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15875	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Nelson, My 4-4-2 has the traditional horizontal motor without any adjustments. The motor was causing 90% of the noise. When I removed it and put in a can motor, most of the noise disappeared. I'm wondering if General Hobbies Corp. produced any other types of steamers? Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15876	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Richard,       Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best.      General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM.  General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have.       General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ).      General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1.     Hope this helps.                                                                                                  Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Nelson, My 4-4-2 has the traditional horizontal motor without any adjustments. The motor was causing 90% of the noise. When I removed it and put in a can motor, most of the noise disappeared. I'm wondering if General Hobbies Corp. produced any other types of steamers? Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15877	From: Nelson	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Oops. I thought I either saw a GHC or HOTCO Atlantic with the same vertical motor that's in my Camelback, or someone was talking about one like that. At any rate, a more typical horizontal Pittman style motor is a lot easier to replace than a vertical one. Maybe it was like the Pittman style that's in my New One 0-8-0, which is no great shakes. It's quiet, but one gap in the commutator plates is very wide. It doesn't seem to affect performance, though. As always, Jim has the lowdown on the company history. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > My 4-4-2 has the traditional horizontal motor without any adjustments. The motor was causing 90% of the noise. When I removed it and put in a can motor, most of the noise disappeared. I'm wondering if General Hobbies Corp. produced any other types of steamers? > Richard in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" greenbrier614@ wrote: > > > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > > > Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15878	From: Matthew	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Nelson, None of mine have a vertical motor. All have a motor that is nearly identical to a Pittman angled through the firebox. Incidentally, this loco was made by "The NewOne" in Tokyo which was one of the companies that came together under the Tenshodo label. Later, this same loco shows up as a PFM loco with a brass chassis and superstructure but using the same motor, drivers and gears. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15879	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim, Your answer to Richard also answered a question of mine. I recently picked up a Japanese built brass B&O Ten-Wheeler. On the box it said "HO Train Co." of Philadelphia, so apparently it is also by General Hobbies Corp. Thanks, Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15880	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: A Question

I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15881	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

All,      I would like to comment on vertical motors in some New One cast metal engines sold by both GHC / HOTCO  and Polk / Aristo Craft. I have 15 distinctly different New One of Tokyo Japan cast metal engines including the two different 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard versions I mentioned before in my collection. I have 5 mint engines that have never been taken out of the boxes which I can only look at to check. Without taking the boilers off any of my engines I found 3 that have the vertically mounted motors. They are:        The GHC / HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback      The GHC / HOTCO 0-4-0 Mother Hubbards ( both versions )      The Polk Hobby/ Aristo Craft 0-6-0T           So there are definitely 3 with vertically mounted motors. I have 15 of the 16 known engines made by New One of the type we are talking about.  There has been previous discussions about how many types were actually made in other groups not part of Yahoo sites. There was even an article  written about 15 or 16 by a Mr. John Bortle years ago to try to answer this question.        One engine pictured ( a drawing ) in the Polk / Aristo Craft catalog was supposedly never made, the Mason Boogie. The one engine I don't have is an 0-4-0t engine that was also later sold by someone else.       Hope this all helps the thread going on now.                                                           Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Nelson, None of mine have a vertical motor. All have a motor that is nearly identical to a Pittman angled through the firebox. Incidentally, this loco was made by "The NewOne" in Tokyo which was one of the companies that came together under the Tenshodo label. Later, this same loco shows up as a PFM loco with a brass chassis and superstructure but using the same motor, drivers and gears. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15882	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Hi Bill,             Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics.       I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One  stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: CinderCrusher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Your answer to Richard also answered a question of mine. I recently picked up a Japanese built brass B&O Ten-Wheeler. On the box it said "HO Train Co." of Philadelphia, so apparently it is also by General Hobbies Corp. Thanks, Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15883	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

I would not use either of the glues you mention because of the smooth acetate sides. Something on the order of Walthers Goo will give you a more permanent holding bound. I'm sure many on the site have a personal preference to give you a number of options.                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: asleepy60 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question   I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15884	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question >I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of >adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some >sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you. > I use weldwood contact cement for the sides. Walthers' "GOO" would also work. You may want to take a look at the album "building a Varmey Coach" in the photos section of the site. I don't know if you have one of the streamliners or one of the prewar standard cars but the techniques are the same. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15885	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

Definitely Walthers Goo, but be sure to put it on THINLY as it's a mess when it squeezes out and will ruin a paint job real fast.   In a message dated 1/22/2011 4:33:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question >I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of >adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some >sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you. > I use weldwood contact cement for the sides.  Walthers' "GOO" would also work.  You may want to take a look at the album "building a Varmey Coach" in the photos section of the site.  I don't know if you have one of the streamliners or one of the prewar standard cars but the techniques are the same. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15886	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

Depending on the paint, I might add   In a message dated 1/22/2011 4:54:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: Definitely Walthers Goo, but be sure to put it on THINLY as it's a mess when it squeezes out and will ruin a paint job real fast.   In a message dated 1/22/2011 4:33:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question >I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of >adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some >sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you. > I use weldwood contact cement for the sides.  Walthers' "GOO" would also work.  You may want to take a look at the album "building a Varmey Coach" in the photos section of the site.  I don't know if you have one of the streamliners or one of the prewar standard cars but the techniques are the same. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15887	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

On 1/22/2011 10:13 PM, jim heckard wrote:   Hi Bill,             Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics.       I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One  stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. Interesting topic, didnt know New One evolved into Tenshodo...  a little contribution from me, I have a very early Suydam Oregon Electric Interurban combine which has stamped "New One" in the floor, behind the pilot. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15888	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Lionel

So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would be the same drives. Nope. Bachmann. In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch them. I want NO Bachmann stuff. When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15889	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C

Hi Gerold,       I'm glad to hear about the Suydam Oregon Electric having New One stamped on it.                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerold Eckl To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   On 1/22/2011 10:13 PM, jim heckard wrote:   Hi Bill,             Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics.       I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One  stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. Interesting topic, didnt know New One evolved into Tenshodo...  a little contribution from me, I have a very early Suydam Oregon Electric Interurban combine which has stamped "New One" in the floor, behind the pilot. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15890	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Are Chatanooga Choo-Choos related to rabbits?

Seems like they must procreate at specific times. Got ANOTHER one in this small box. Gotta say, quietest running one I've seen in a while. 0-8-0 version, no front truck and the screwhole has never had anything in it. Think I'll bob the nose, new pilot and steps, repaint the stupid thing, and maybe put an old English or Mantua tender behind it, with a NWSL gearbox and can motor in the cab, just to be different. How many of these silly things did they make, anyway?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15891	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim, I checked the loco and tender and the only lettering stamped on the bottom is the word "JAPAN" on the driver cover plate. There is nothing on the tender. I placed photos of the locomotive and also the box in the Photo Section in my album titled "Cinder Valley". If you display the box in the large format and look at the left end of the side of the box you will see "Manufactured for the HO Train Co. Philadelphia, Made in Japan". Someone placed tape over the lettering but it is still readable. What does the New One or General Models Corp. emblem look like? On the top of the box at the left end there was a round emblem that was torn by heavy usage and is no longer intact. Was their emblem inside a round circle? Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics. > > I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15892	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Sorry, I meant to say General Hobbies Corp. and not General Models Corp. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > I checked the loco and tender and the only lettering stamped on the bottom is the word "JAPAN" on the driver cover plate. There is nothing on the tender. > > I placed photos of the locomotive and also the box in the Photo Section in my album titled "Cinder Valley". If you display the box in the large format and look at the left end of the side of the box you will see "Manufactured for the HO Train Co. Philadelphia, Made in Japan". Someone placed tape over the lettering but it is still readable. > > What does the New One or General Models Corp. emblem look like? On the top of the box at the left end there was a round emblem that was torn by heavy usage and is no longer intact. Was their emblem inside a round circle? > > Bill DeFoe > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics. > > > > I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15893	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: GHC emblem

Attachments : IMG_6717_2.JPG IMG_6716_1.JPG     Bill,             I think this would be the GHC emblem you are talking about. You can see there are very slight differences in it depending on what box it came from.                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15894	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel > So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. > I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. > Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would > be the same drives. > Nope. > Bachmann. > In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the > Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. > > Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch > them. > I want NO Bachmann stuff. > > When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? > Dave Heck, if you don't want them I'll take them. The drives are junk but the bodies were state of the art at the time, the same shell went to Front Range as well as Bachmann. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15895	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel

Already spoken for. Like, 5 minutes later. > > > So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. > > I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. > > Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would > > be the same drives. > > Nope. > > Bachmann. > > In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the > > Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. > > > > Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch > > them. > > I want NO Bachmann stuff. > > > > When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? > > Dave > > Heck, if you don't want them I'll take them. The drives are junk but the > bodies were state of the art at the time, the same shell went to Front Range > as well as Bachmann. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15896	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15897	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: GHC emblem

Jim, You are right, it is the GHC emblem. I can see the rubber stamp design to the right of the circle on my box. I also just found my locomotive in a 1959 Model Railroader ad by AHM. So this all comes full circle. Due to your previously mentioned link between the HO Train Co., GHC, AHM, and Tenshodo, I am thinking that it is probably early Tenshodo brass, imported by the HO Train Co., which later became AHM. It certainly looks to be of a quality equal to Tenshodo. The only discrepancy I can see is that it doesn't have the enclosed gearbox of the PFM/Tenshodo engines. Thanks for all your help. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > I think this would be the GHC emblem you are talking about. You can see there are very slight differences in it depending on what box it came from. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15898	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15899	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15900	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Speaking of the Chatanooga Choo-Choo that Tyco put out back in the 60's and 70's, back then my very first purchase in HO gauge was a Royal Blue 2-8-0 steamer that had the same, as you put it, "silly" tender powered loco. Back then I was wide eyed and gullible about the hobby and I soon found out that my first purchase was practically worthless since in about three months that silly tender with the "slot car motor" quit running. The engineer that dreamed this thing up must have been a real wing-ding. Because this was my first purchase and because I just plain liked the looks of that Royal Blue engine, I put it up on my display shelf and there it sat for some 25 to 30 years. In the back of my mind I thought that some day I would find a way to bring it back to life. Well, that very thing happened several years ago and now that little Royal Blue runs as good as anything I have. What happened to it? Here's the story. One day I was looking at one of IHC's 2-8-0 steamers on eBay and this particular offering also had a well detailed close-up photo of the loco. As I scanned the photo, I thought to myself, "Could it be"? Sure enough, IHC's supplier Mehano was using the very same 2-8-0 shell mold that Tyco had used many years before. I very quickly purchased that IHC 2-8-0 and slipped the mechanism under the old Royal Blue along with some tender modifications and WELLA I had a sweet running Royal Blue Tyco/IHC that became one of my favorite pieces. If you have one of these Chatanooga Choo-Choos that you would like to "steam again" just get yourself an IHC 2-8-0 and go to work. It does take some fitting but it will run great when completed. In my next episode, I will tell you how I revamped an old Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 (Wooten fire box version) with a Mantua Mikado drive. 8-) Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Seems like they must procreate at specific times. > Got ANOTHER one in this small box. Gotta say, quietest running one I've seen in a while. > > 0-8-0 version, no front truck and the screwhole has never had anything in it. > Think I'll bob the nose, new pilot and steps, repaint the stupid thing, and maybe put an old English or Mantua tender behind it, with a NWSL gearbox and can motor in the cab, just to be different. > > How many of these silly things did they make, anyway? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15901	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Richard,               I can't tell you much about IHC and why they went out of business. They were in business past the time frame of my collection and the history of HO I'm trying to learn and keep ( 1936-1977 ). Even that span has a lot to learn.        I do remember one statement Mr. Paul wrote to  me when we were discussing the New One GG-1. It had to do with the GG-I ( I think it was a dual motor ) they, IHC, were selling at the time being a terrific running engine.        I think the business climate had something to do with it, so many long standing HO companies going out of business and a lot going on with getting and buying from China. I'm sure others might have definite information. Sorry I can't help much in this area.                                     Jim H       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?   Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15902	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Richard,   The owner, Berne Paul passed away.  That would be the biggest reason.  The IHC passenger cars were just not up to par with the latest offerings from other companies, so I am sure that hurt the business also.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?     Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15903	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Gents - This thread is fascinating to me because I have collected a number of both the GHC/Hotco and Aristocraft engines and still have several of them.  My first was one of the Atlantics I bought at a train show, without knowing anything about it. Later I found it to be a GHC with a Varney tender).  I subsequently found advertisements for Pacific Fast Mail (MRR 4/57) advertising a brass Atlantic by Tenshodo which looked very similar.  I bid on, but didn't win, about the year 2000, a Japanese brass engine in pieces with very similar drive to my GHC.  I have also heard of cast brass versions.  From that and discussions with others led me to suspect that New One evolved into Tenshodo.  It was good to hear Matt's confirmation of that. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Camelback has been one of my favorites, being a CNJ prototype and I'm a CNJ fan.  It is hard to find them in good shape, especially the tenders. Lee Town made two versions of the tender, passenger and freight, as well as certain details for the engine. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler is another New One model and a pretty good representation of another CNJ engine.  It is interesting to note that Polk's sold both the New One version, as well as the Rivarossi "Casey Jones" ten wheeler in the late 50's. My other Aristo-Craft models made by New One are the 2-8-2 Frisco Mikado, and the 4-8-2 USRA Mountain, both excellent runners.  I have not had the inclination to re-power any of them. Reed -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15904	From: Riverboy	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Do you think someone might pick up some of the line one day? They did have some nice stuff that just needed a little reworking.   Tod in Ohio   --- On Sun, 1/23/11, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 11:36 AM   Richard,   The owner, Berne Paul passed away.  That would be the biggest reason.  The IHC passenger cars were just not up to par with the latest offerings from other companies, so I am sure that hurt the business also.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?     Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15905	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I agree that the Frisco Mikado is a good runner. I had one (Operative word is 'Had'), until a squirrel that got into my apartment, knocked it off my work table to the floor, cracking the frame. I found the mikado is also oversized for HO. I also collect Scale-Craft OO scale, which I rework for HO track operation with new trucks and couplers, and found the GHC mike is a good engine for pulling those cars. Looks right at home, proportion-wise. Would LOVE to get a new frame, but as I would also need the driver wheels, and pilot truck, and money is tight right now, it has to wait. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/23/11, estabrook@... <estabrook@...> wrote: From: estabrook@... <estabrook@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:38 AM   Gents - This thread is fascinating to me because I have collected a number of both the GHC/Hotco and Aristocraft engines and still have several of them.  My first was one of the Atlantics I bought at a train show, without knowing anything about it. Later I found it to be a GHC with a Varney tender).  I subsequently found advertisements for Pacific Fast Mail (MRR 4/57) advertising a brass Atlantic by Tenshodo which looked very similar.  I bid on, but didn't win, about the year 2000, a Japanese brass engine in pieces with very similar drive to my GHC.  I have also heard of cast brass versions.  From that and discussions with others led me to suspect that New One evolved into Tenshodo.  It was good to hear Matt's confirmation of that. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Camelback has been one of my favorites, being a CNJ prototype and I'm a CNJ fan.  It is hard to find them in good shape, especially the tenders. Lee Town made two versions of the tender, passenger and freight, as well as certain details for the engine. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler is another New One model and a pretty good representation of another CNJ engine.  It is interesting to note that Polk's sold both the New One version, as well as the Rivarossi "Casey Jones" ten wheeler in the late 50's. My other Aristo-Craft models made by New One are the 2-8-2 Frisco Mikado, and the 4-8-2 USRA Mountain, both excellent runners.  I have not had the inclination to re-power any of them. Reed -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15906	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

I really liked the structures they had.  While they weren't "SUPER" detailed, they included enough detail to lend themselves to a bit of additional detailing and painting to get some very nice structures.  I did purchase all of the "painted ladies"series and am glad I did get them when I did.  I am always on the lookout for some of the others, but they are getting more and more difficult to find. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:11:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?   Richard,               I can't tell you much about IHC and why they went out of business. They were in business past the time frame of my collection and the history of HO I'm trying to learn and keep ( 1936-1977 ). Even that span has a lot to learn.        I do remember one statement Mr. Paul wrote to  me when we were discussing the New One GG-1. It had to do with the GG-I ( I think it was a dual motor ) they, IHC, were selling at the time being a terrific running engine.        I think the business climate had something to do with it, so many long standing HO companies going out of business and a lot going on with getting and buying from China. I'm sure others might have definite information. Sorry I can't help much in this area.                                     Jim H       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?   Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15907	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

Thank you to those who responded to my question. Mr. Dellmann I did see your photos about building the coach before I had asked the question. The thing was that I could not see the brand name on the cement tube that you had used, so I asked. Your photos were very complete and quite impressive. BTW - my kit unit is a PA-40 coach not a smooth side. I rode those when they were still painted in the yellow and blue paint scheme of the old CNJ (Central Railroad of New Jersey).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15908	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Question > Thank you to those who responded to my question. > > Mr. Dellmann I did see your photos about building the coach before I had > asked the question. The thing was that I could not see the brand name on > the cement tube that you had used, so I asked. > > Your photos were very complete and quite impressive. > > BTW - my kit unit is a PA-40 coach not a smooth side. I rode those when > they were still painted in the yellow and blue paint scheme of the old CNJ > (Central Railroad of New Jersey). Actually that particular tube was "super glue" brand but it was still contact cement. Since then for some reason it's hard around here, so now I use weldwood. Pliobond will also work. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15909	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C

I wasn't aware of the New One / Tenshodo connection either. It's interesting how intertwined many of the various names in the industry were. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Gerold, > > I'm glad to hear about the Suydam Oregon Electric having New One stamped on it. > > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerold Eckl > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:00 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp. > > > > On 1/22/2011 10:13 PM, jim heckard wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics. > > I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. > > > Interesting topic, didnt know New One evolved into Tenshodo... a little contribution from me, I have a very early Suydam Oregon Electric Interurban combine which has stamped "New One" in the floor, behind the pilot. > > Gerold >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15910	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Rich, Mehano did acquire the boiler tooling for the Chattanooga, and used it for their 0-8-0 & 2-8-0, which wasn't a bad thing because the tooling was quite good, and probably what suckered most of us in about 35 years ago. Tyco started production of those things around 1974 as a 'deluxe' Consolidation, then removed the lead truck, valve gear and, top-mounted headlamp and continued cranking them out through the 80s. Some of us on the Tyco forum took to replacing the pancake motor in the tender with disk drive motors thusly: http://tinyurl.com/5wypaof It runs strong and steady, but it isn't exactly the quietest runner because of the gearing. I've always wanted to power the drivers, but just haven't gotten around to it. Was there much surgery involved in transferring the Tyco steamchest onto the IHC frame? Btw, I saw a Royal Blue mint in the box go for over $90 on eBay recently. I picked one up last year at the LHS in the box for $12 with the caboose just for the heck of it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Speaking of the Chatanooga Choo-Choo that Tyco put out back in the 60's and 70's, back then my very first purchase in HO gauge was a Royal Blue 2-8-0 steamer that had the same, as you put it, "silly" tender powered loco. Back then I was wide eyed and gullible about the hobby and I soon found out that my first purchase was practically worthless since in about three months that silly tender with the "slot car motor" quit running. The engineer that dreamed this thing up must have been a real wing-ding. > > Because this was my first purchase and because I just plain liked the looks of that Royal Blue engine, I put it up on my display shelf and there it sat for some 25 to 30 years. In the back of my mind I thought that some day I would find a way to bring it back to life. > > Well, that very thing happened several years ago and now that little Royal Blue runs as good as anything I have. What happened to it? Here's the story. One day I was looking at one of IHC's 2-8-0 steamers on eBay and this particular offering also had a well detailed close-up photo of the loco. As I scanned the photo, I thought to myself, "Could it be"? Sure enough, IHC's supplier Mehano was using the very same 2-8-0 shell mold that Tyco had used many years before. I very quickly purchased that IHC 2-8-0 and slipped the mechanism under the old Royal Blue along with some tender modifications and WELLA I had a sweet running Royal Blue Tyco/IHC that became one of my favorite pieces. If you have one of these Chatanooga Choo-Choos that you would like to "steam again" just get yourself an IHC 2-8-0 and go to work. It does take some fitting but it will run great when completed. In my next episode, I will tell you how I revamped an old Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 (Wooten fire box version) with a Mantua Mikado drive. 8-) > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15911	From: VtHam	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Attachments : Royal Blue Tyco-IHC Conversion 006.jpg Royal Blue Tyco-IHC Conversion 003.jpg Royal Blue Tyco-IHC Conversion 001.jpg Hi Nelson, Thanks for the info and photo about the pancake motor. I had never heard of that one. Looks pretty neat and a good way to preserve most of the original drive, if desired. Nice photo too.   It's been a few years since I did my IHC conversion but as I remember it was just a matter of removing some of the boiler belly plastic to gain clearence for the IHC drive. I took three photos to show you my engine but I'm having trouble trying to get a link like you did for your photo. Perhaps the photos will go under group "Attachment". If not, I will put them in Group Photos. Regarding the tender, I used the IHC tender platform and wheels but I had to cut it in half and added a short section in the middle since the IHC tender was a bit shorter than the tyco tender. Richard in Vermont   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Rich, > > Mehano did acquire the boiler tooling for the Chattanooga, and used it for their 0-8-0 & 2-8-0, which wasn't a bad thing because the tooling was quite good, and probably what suckered most of us in about 35 years ago. Tyco started production of those things around 1974 as a 'deluxe' Consolidation, then removed the lead truck, valve gear and, top-mounted headlamp and continued cranking them out through the 80s. > > Some of us on the Tyco forum took to replacing the pancake motor in the tender with disk drive motors thusly: > > href="http://tinyurl.com/5wypaof">http://tinyurl.com/5wypaof > > It runs strong and steady, but it isn't exactly the quietest runner because of the gearing. I've always wanted to power the drivers, but just haven't gotten around to it. Was there much surgery involved in transferring the Tyco steamchest onto the IHC frame? > > Btw, I saw a Royal Blue mint in the box go for over $90 on eBay recently. I picked one up last year at the LHS in the box for $12 with the caboose just for the heck of it. > > Nelson > > > > --- In href="mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com">vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Speaking of the Chatanooga Choo-Choo that Tyco put out back in the 60's and 70's, back then my very first purchase in HO gauge was a Royal Blue 2-8-0 steamer that had the same, as you put it, "silly" tender powered loco. Back then I was wide eyed and gullible about the hobby and I soon found out that my first purchase was practically worthless since in about three months that silly tender with the "slot car motor" quit running. The engineer that dreamed this thing up must have been a real wing-ding. > > > > Because this was my first purchase and because I just plain liked the looks of that Royal Blue engine, I put it up on my display shelf and there it sat for some 25 to 30 years. In the back of my mind I thought that some day I would find a way to bring it back to life. > > > > Well, that very thing happened several years ago and now that little Royal Blue runs as good as anything I have. What happened to it? Here's the story. One day I was looking at one of IHC's 2-8-0 steamers on eBay and this particular offering also had a well detailed close-up photo of the loco. As I scanned the photo, I thought to myself, "Could it be"?  Sure enough, IHC's supplier Mehano was using the very same 2-8-0 shell mold that Tyco had used many years before. I very quickly purchased that IHC 2-8-0 and slipped the mechanism under the old  Royal Blue along with some tender modifications and WELLA I had a sweet running Royal Blue Tyco/IHC that became one of my favorite pieces. If you have one of these Chatanooga Choo-Choos that you would like to "steam again" just get yourself an IHC 2-8-0 and go to work. It does take some fitting but it will run great when completed. In my next episode, I will tell you how I revamped an old Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 (Wooten fire box version) with a Mantua Mikado drive. 8-) > > Richard in Vermont

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15912	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I read with interest about your correspondence with Mr. B. Paul and the GG-1.  I remember visiting the home of Bob Faust, Penn Line President, some 50 years ago. Mr. Faust was talking about how that "bleeping" Paul had sent Penn Line's GG-1 and some other locos to Japan to be copied.  He had evidence Paul had copied Penn Line's model rather than using original railroad specs. This evidence was that Paul's product incorporated all of the subtle compromises and inaccuracies of the Penn Line product. I know that the most obvious inaccuracy was the length of GG-1, but I wonder if anyone in the group knows of any other that would prove Mr. Faust's claim. Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15913	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

    Frank,        First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter.       I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown.  Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars.  Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy.       I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all  perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws.       I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel.                                            Jim H.     ----- Original Message ----- From: fydill@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   I read with interest about your correspondence with Mr. B. Paul and the GG-1.  I remember visiting the home of Bob Faust, Penn Line President, some 50 years ago. Mr. Faust was talking about how that "bleeping" Paul had sent Penn Line's GG-1 and some other locos to Japan to be copied.  He had evidence Paul had copied Penn Line's model rather than using original railroad specs. This evidence was that Paul's product incorporated all of the subtle compromises and inaccuracies of the Penn Line product. I know that the most obvious inaccuracy was the length of GG-1, but I wonder if anyone in the group knows of any other that would prove Mr. Faust's claim. Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15914	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Interesting history, Jim. I bought a Varney GG1 on eBay about 8 years ago (at least it came in a Varney GG1 box), but the truck frames were plastic and the motor and parts said Japan on them. Was this the New One GG1, or did Varney eventually farm manufacturing out overseas? That's what I concluded when I had it, but it sounds more like it was a New One model in the wrong box, which had blue & white stripes and a wooden insert to hold the loco. The shell had become a little swaybacked over the years, and both headlight castings had crumbled. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Frank, > > First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter. > > I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown. Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars. Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy. > > I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws. > > I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel. > > > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15915	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Rich, this is one instance where preserving originality may not be such a good thing, lol. The original motor had meager bearings that liked to squeal, and oiling them only put oil on the brushes, which made it sluggish and a better smoke unit than the one in the boiler. The IHC frame and drivers look like a perfect fit. What are the plates on the underside? Is that to hold extra pickup wipers? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, > Thanks for the info and photo about the pancake motor. I had never heard of that one. Looks pretty neat and a good way to preserve most of the original drive, if desired. Nice photo too. > > It's been a few years since I did my IHC conversion but as I remember it was just a matter of removing some of the boiler belly plastic to gain clearence for the IHC drive. I took three photos to show you my engine but I'm having trouble trying to get a link like you did for your photo. Perhaps the photos will go under group "Attachment". If not, I will put them in Group Photos. Regarding the tender, I used the IHC tender platform and wheels but I had to cut it in half and added a short section in the middle since the IHC tender was a bit shorter than the tyco tender. > Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15916	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

I know two guys who worked there from the AHM days, and Bernie Paul's death and the fact that no one was apparently interested in buying them out was their reason for closing. Mehano is interested in having one of these guys, Ray, become their US importer, and he said he'll be flying over there to talk, but he doesn't seem too keen on starting a new business venture at this point in his life. From what he was telling me it sounds more like he would be putting in orders with them for special runs for specific clients, like a scenic railroad he mentioned that wanted train sets. Time will tell if we see the Mehano line readily available again. I'll see him at a summer train show, so I'll be sure to ask him what's up. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > > Do you think someone might pick up some of the line one day? They did have some nice stuff that just needed a little reworking. >   > Tod in Ohio > > >   > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/23/11, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > > From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC? > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 11:36 AM > > >   > > > > > > Richard, >   > The owner, Berne Paul passed away.  That would be the biggest reason.  The IHC passenger cars were just not up to par with the latest offerings from other companies, so I am sure that hurt the business also. >   > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 >   > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC? >   >   > > > > Jim H., > That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15917	From: Richard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Nelson, You have excellent eye sight. I meant to mention that but forgot. That is layers of sheet lead to add some much needed weight. With that added weight she will pull six or seven passenger cars up a 3% grade. Just by dumb luck my wife noticed a string of Lima passenger cars, at a train show, with Royal Blue lettering on the sides. Even had the blue and silver paint scheme. I agree with you completely about that Tyco motor. The Mantua people must have been livid over that design. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Rich, this is one instance where preserving originality may not be such a good thing, lol. The original motor had meager bearings that liked to squeal, and oiling them only put oil on the brushes, which made it sluggish and a better smoke unit than the one in the boiler. > > The IHC frame and drivers look like a perfect fit. What are the plates on the underside? Is that to hold extra pickup wipers? > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nelson, > > Thanks for the info and photo about the pancake motor. I had never heard of that one. Looks pretty neat and a good way to preserve most of the original drive, if desired. Nice photo too. > > > > It's been a few years since I did my IHC conversion but as I remember it was just a matter of removing some of the boiler belly plastic to gain clearence for the IHC drive. I took three photos to show you my engine but I'm having trouble trying to get a link like you did for your photo. Perhaps the photos will go under group "Attachment". If not, I will put them in Group Photos. Regarding the tender, I used the IHC tender platform and wheels but I had to cut it in half and added a short section in the middle since the IHC tender was a bit shorter than the tyco tender. > > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15918	From: David	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

We all know how they look – but how well do they function? Specifically on very tight curves (12 -15" radius), curved-frog turnouts (Snap-switches and sharper), S-curves, and locos with long coupler-overhangs. While we're riding the Nightmare Limited, lets throw in pushing freight cars with truck-mounted couplers through all the above - Mantua/Tyco specialized in truck-mounts. That suggests that they didn't give as much trouble with the company's proprietary couplers as they did with the later styles. Does anybody have operating experience with the old loops? I'm looking for a low-maintenance coupler system on a minimum-space switching layout with a bit of cramped  turnback mainline and a fiddle-yard, to be operated with pre-1965 HO equipment. Mantua's little tank engines or – shudder – Athearn's 0-4-2, and solid-frame two-axle diesel-style switchers (PennLine's "midget diesel," Athearn's Hustler) are good short motive power but their massive end-overhangs mean that their swung-out couplers are always trying to pull the first car over the outside rail on sharp curves and esses (and frequently succeed). It's even worse when the car has truck-mounted couplers. I don't care about automatic uncoupling on ramps – I'm happy with using an uncoupling tool to unhook (but don't want to have to lift the car). I do want the cars and locos to auto-couple reliably on curves where knuckle-couplers and horn-hooks tend to miss each other (so you have to guide them into each other with fingers or tools). I know John Allen and others liked the Baker coupler for operation, but they're awfully scarce; there are still Mantua loops floating around at reasonable prices. I'd rather not refit American equipment with Euro couplers like Marklin's or old Fleischmann if I can avoid it. So, might the Mantua loops be a good choice?   - They look like they'd have a wide gathering range (ability to auto-couple and stay coupled without strain at a wide range of angles). Do they?   - How well do they function while pushing cars?   - With truck-mounts?   - How much finicky adjustment and maintenance do they take?   - Do they have any other quirks or problems, or virtues, I should be aware of? Any comments would be appreciated. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15919	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

On 1/25/2011 4:56 AM, Nelson wrote:   I know two guys who worked there from the AHM days, and Bernie Paul's death and the fact that no one was apparently interested in buying them out was their reason for closing. Mehano is interested in having one of these guys, Ray, become their US importer, and he said he'll be flying over there to talk, but he doesn't seem too keen on starting a new business venture at this point in his life. From what he was telling me it sounds more like he would be putting in orders with them for special runs for specific clients, like a scenic railroad he mentioned that wanted train sets. Time will tell if we see the Mehano line readily available again. I'll see him at a summer train show, so I'll be sure to ask him what's up. I thought Mehano of Slowenia went out of business some time ago? Or does the company still exist, maybe in the form of an office arranging for proof their stuff in the far east?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15920	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Nelson,             I have to admit that I don't know much about what Sol Kramer did with the Penn Line GG-1 he got and sold under the Varney name he had acquired. These years and times are after what I was trying to piece together. It's even possible he got a boat load of already assembled ones or lots of parts from the PL auction. I don't think he would have thrown them away. These  change overs of stock and owners constantly produced leftovers. How you can keep track of these products would be hard.        I do know there is a report in the Varney Guide by Spanagel that some changes were made inside the body of the PL GG-1 by Sol Kramer that created a short that caused lots of problems. If you have this book it would be helpful to read.        As for the blue and white box with the wooden insert I believe it was one of the last boxes using the Varney name . I think others can be more definite about this. I once got a Pennsylvania GG-1, sure looked Penn Line,  in an orange and green box with that wooden support in. If I remember correctly ( the box is long gone ) it had something to do with Life Like which Mr. Kramer also became involved with.       I honestly don't remember having ever seen any mention of a deteriorating GG-1 BODY whether it be Penn Line, Varney or GHC / HOTCO. I do however have a mint kit No. 500K in O/B box. It has a picture of a GG-1 on the front and the word Varney in big white letters and the words in gold HO Custom kit.  The picture on the box has five gold strips and the number 4877 on it. Odd part is the same GG-1 with 5 strips and the No. 4877 is also on the GHC / HOTCO GG-1 box.  Yet the body in the box has a solid gold strip and the number 5796 ( many times seen on Penn Line engines ).      What it seems like to me is that after the end of Penn Line and with the GHC / HOTCO copy available it will be very hard to pinpoint and decide what's what, who was selling what because there could be a real mix going on. Did Sol Kramer and Bernie Paul come together and exchange GG-1's ?  I don't know. I wouldn't even venture to guess what the GG-1 you have is.      Would be glad to hear from others who have different information.                                                              Jim H         ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Interesting history, Jim. I bought a Varney GG1 on eBay about 8 years ago (at least it came in a Varney GG1 box), but the truck frames were plastic and the motor and parts said Japan on them. Was this the New One GG1, or did Varney eventually farm manufacturing out overseas? That's what I concluded when I had it, but it sounds more like it was a New One model in the wrong box, which had blue & white stripes and a wooden insert to hold the loco. The shell had become a little swaybacked over the years, and both headlight castings had crumbled. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Frank, > > First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter. > > I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown. Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars. Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy. > > I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws. > > I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel. > > > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15921	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

David, Let me throw a stone, for which I have no doubt I will be roundly stoned in turn. My favorite pre-KD, pre-X2F, coupler is the Gilbert 'automatic' coupler. Talgo-mounted, it meets your criteria, IMHO, and is less, shall we say homely, than the Mantua couplers. Unfortunately, Gilbert did not, to my knowledge, sell them on the after-market. And even if you did find a source for them, fabricating a suitable draft gear would be another major challenge. Good luck, Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > We all know how they look � but how well do they function? > > Specifically on very tight curves (12 -15" radius), curved-frog turnouts > (Snap-switches and sharper), S-curves, and locos with long > coupler-overhangs. While we're riding the Nightmare Limited, lets throw > in pushing freight cars with truck-mounted couplers through all the > above - Mantua/Tyco specialized in truck-mounts. That suggests that they > didn't give as much trouble with the company's proprietary couplers as > they did with the later styles. > > Does anybody have operating experience with the old loops? > > I'm looking for a low-maintenance coupler system on a minimum-space > switching layout with a bit of cramped turnback mainline and a > fiddle-yard, to be operated with pre-1965 HO equipment. Mantua's little > tank engines or � shudder � Athearn's 0-4-2, and solid-frame > two-axle diesel-style switchers (PennLine's "midget diesel," Athearn's > Hustler) are good short motive power but their massive end-overhangs > mean that their swung-out couplers are always trying to pull the first > car over the outside rail on sharp curves and esses (and frequently > succeed). It's even worse when the car has truck-mounted couplers. > > I don't care about automatic uncoupling on ramps � I'm happy with > using an uncoupling tool to unhook (but don't want to have to lift the > car). I do want the cars and locos to auto-couple reliably on curves > where knuckle-couplers and horn-hooks tend to miss each other (so you > have to guide them into each other with fingers or tools). > > I know John Allen and others liked the Baker coupler for operation, but > they're awfully scarce; there are still Mantua loops floating around at > reasonable prices. I'd rather not refit American equipment with Euro > couplers like Marklin's or old Fleischmann if I can avoid it. > > So, might the Mantua loops be a good choice? > - They look like they'd have a wide gathering range (ability to > auto-couple and stay coupled without strain at a wide range of angles). > Do they? > - How well do they function while pushing cars? > - With truck-mounts? > - How much finicky adjustment and maintenance do they take? > - Do they have any other quirks or problems, or virtues, I should be > aware of? > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15922	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Hi Steve - If you will contact me off list at my AOL address, I like to discuss your A/C Mike needs. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 12:11 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   I agree that the Frisco Mikado is a good runner. I had one (Operative word is 'Had'), until a squirrel that got into my apartment, knocked it off my work table to the floor, cracking the frame. I found the mikado is also oversized for HO. I also collect Scale-Craft OO scale, which I rework for HO track operation with new trucks and couplers, and found the GHC mike is a good engine for pulling those cars. Looks right at home, proportion-wise. Would LOVE to get a new frame, but as I would also need the driver wheels, and pilot truck, and money is tight right now, it has to wait. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/23/11, estabrook@... <estabrook@...> wrote: From: estabrook@... <estabrook@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:38 AM   Gents - This thread is fascinating to me because I have collected a number of both the GHC/Hotco and Aristocraft engines and still have several of them.  My first was one of the Atlantics I bought at a train show, without knowing anything about it. Later I found it to be a GHC with a Varney tender).  I subsequently found advertisements for Pacific Fast Mail (MRR 4/57) advertising a brass Atlantic by Tenshodo which looked very similar.  I bid on, but didn't win, about the year 2000, a Japanese brass engine in pieces with very similar drive to my GHC.  I have also heard of cast brass versions.  From that and discussions with others led me to suspect that New One evolved into Tenshodo.  It was good to hear Matt's confirmation of that. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Camelback has been one of my favorites, being a CNJ prototype and I'm a CNJ fan.  It is hard to find them in good shape, especially the tenders. Lee Town made two versions of the tender, passenger and freight, as well as certain details for the engine. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler is another New One model and a pretty good representation of another CNJ engine.  It is interesting to note that Polk's sold both the New One version, as well as the Rivarossi "Casey Jones" ten wheeler in the late 50's. My other Aristo-Craft models made by New One are the 2-8-2 Frisco Mikado, and the 4-8-2 USRA Mountain, both excellent runners.  I have not had the inclination to re-power any of them. Reed -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15923	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

I think they declared bankruptcy and let the Slovenian assembly workers go. Ray did say that their manufacturing is now done in China. Funny that their website still shows their line of American models. It looks like they're now making the Mountain and Hudson with weathering and smoke, something that was never available through IHC. http://www.mehano.si/EN/models.php?Id=&idm=4&group3=4&see=1&sub2=2&title=7 Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: > > I thought Mehano of Slowenia went out of business some time ago? Or does > the company still exist, maybe in the form of an office arranging for > proof their stuff in the far east? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15924	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Very confusing, Jim. Maybe we should submit this mystery to Brad Meltzer's Decoded. I guess New One models were more plagued with zinc pest than Varney, but I've seen crumbling Varney locos too. The GG1 shell didn't have any cracking, it just bowed up a bit at the ends. One of the headlight castings was mostly gone, and the other was cracked in half, but I was able to glue it together. I was irked that it had damage that the seller hadn't declared, so I ended up sending it back for a refund. He got it back in much better shape than he sent it because I'd started repairs, and didn't refund my shipping cost as he'd promised. I remember that the Japanese motor was nothing to write home about. The whole thing seemed cheap compared to the Varney and Penn Line GG1's I'd seen with metal truck frames. The holes for the screws that held the truck covers on were weak and stripped, and I had to re-thread them with CA. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > I have to admit that I don't know much about what Sol Kramer did with the Penn Line GG-1 he got and sold under the Varney name he had acquired. These years and times are after what I was trying to piece together. It's even possible he got a boat load of already assembled ones or lots of parts from the PL auction. I don't think he would have thrown them away. These change overs of stock and owners constantly produced leftovers. How you can keep track of these products would be hard. > > I do know there is a report in the Varney Guide by Spanagel that some changes were made inside the body of the PL GG-1 by Sol Kramer that created a short that caused lots of problems. If you have this book it would be helpful to read. > > As for the blue and white box with the wooden insert I believe it was one of the last boxes using the Varney name . I think others can be more definite about this. I once got a Pennsylvania GG-1, sure looked Penn Line, in an orange and green box with that wooden support in. If I remember correctly ( the box is long gone ) it had something to do with Life Like which Mr. Kramer also became involved with. > > I honestly don't remember having ever seen any mention of a deteriorating GG-1 BODY whether it be Penn Line, Varney or GHC / HOTCO. I do however have a mint kit No. 500K in O/B box. It has a picture of a GG-1 on the front and the word Varney in big white letters and the words in gold HO Custom kit. The picture on the box has five gold strips and the number 4877 on it. Odd part is the same GG-1 with 5 strips and the No. 4877 is also on the GHC / HOTCO GG-1 box. Yet the body in the box has a solid gold strip and the number 5796 ( many times seen on Penn Line engines ). > > What it seems like to me is that after the end of Penn Line and with the GHC / HOTCO copy available it will be very hard to pinpoint and decide what's what, who was selling what because there could be a real mix going on. Did Sol Kramer and Bernie Paul come together and exchange GG-1's ? I don't know. I wouldn't even venture to guess what the GG-1 you have is. > > Would be glad to hear from others who have different information. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15925	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@...> wrote: >My favorite pre-KD, pre-X2F, coupler is the Gilbert 'automatic' coupler. Talgo-mounted, it meets your criteria, IMHO, and is less, shall we say homely, than the Mantua couplers. Unfortunately, Gilbert did not, to my knowledge, sell them on the after-market. And even if you did find a source for them, fabricating a suitable draft gear would be another major challenge. ============= Thanks for the input, Walter. I'm assuming you're talking about the knuckle couplers on the S-scale trains, since a look at the 1955 Gilbert catalog indicates the HO trains came out originally with horn-hook couplers. Actually, the truck-mounted (Talgo) system can meet my criteria with a knuckle coupler if all the equipment is equipped with them. But there is no good way to truck-mount couplers on the rigid-frame tank engines or diesels, so I'm still going to have a problem with knuckle-style couplers, even larger ones, when the loco's coupler is way over close to the outside rail and the talgo coupler on the first car is more or less between the rails. Even with the loop couplers, I may have to go to all body mounts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15926	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

No, I am talking about the pre- and post-war coupler that was unique to Gilbert HO. After a hiatus when they were out of HOby '55 they came back and went with the X2F. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@> wrote: > >My favorite pre-KD, pre-X2F, coupler is the Gilbert 'automatic' > coupler. Talgo-mounted, it meets your criteria, IMHO, and is less, shall > we say homely, than the Mantua couplers. Unfortunately, Gilbert did not, > to my knowledge, sell them on the after-market. And even if you did find > a source for them, fabricating a suitable draft gear would be another > major challenge. > > ============= > > Thanks for the input, Walter. I'm assuming you're talking about the > knuckle couplers on the S-scale trains, since a look at the 1955 Gilbert > catalog indicates the HO trains came out originally with horn-hook > couplers. > > Actually, the truck-mounted (Talgo) system can meet my criteria with a > knuckle coupler if all the equipment is equipped with them. But there is > no good way to truck-mount couplers on the rigid-frame tank engines or > diesels, so I'm still going to have a problem with knuckle-style > couplers, even larger ones, when the loco's coupler is way over close to > the outside rail and the talgo coupler on the first car is more or less > between the rails. Even with the loop couplers, I may have to go to all > body mounts. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15927	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants

My nephew had a "chattanooga" sold by Tyco(made in China, of course); what a dud...   Nice runner by itself but not suitable for long trains. I have picked up a couple of non-runners at rrain shows for eanuts - add an MDC tender and push it with a real engine(Boswer in my case) which has enough "moxie" and it make a real pretty double-header. I use a Bowser L-1 and the 2-8-0 in a more-or-less B & O fashion for long drags.   I got sucked into trying to repair/tune up the Tyco piece but it's not worth it...   Next: The Royal was a crack passenger traind, usually pulled by at least a 4-6-4 ad I can't imagine it getting hauled around by a freight engine(which

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15928	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Fw: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants - Rest of The Unfinished

Sorry - that got sent in the middle of a paragraph sopmehow - ah, the vagaries of the WB! Anyhow,. a 2-8-0 is a freight locomotive - once considered a heavy hauler but later usually bumped to local service or even switching duties, which they handled very well in their day.   Some remain on tourist lines, sometimes hauling a few passenger cars slowly and while not exactly "de rigeur," at least they're running!   With a sigh of relief, I am yours, Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) --- On Tue, 1/25/11, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: From: Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> Subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 8:16 PM My nephew had a "chattanooga" sold by Tyco(made in China, of course); what a dud...   Nice runner by itself but not suitable for long trains. I have picked up a couple of non-runners at rrain shows for eanuts - add an MDC tender and push it with a real engine(Boswer in my case) which has enough "moxie" and it make a real pretty double-header. I use a Bowser L-1 and the 2-8-0 in a more-or-less B & O fashion for long drags.   I got sucked into trying to repair/tune up the Tyco piece but it's not worth it...   Next: The Royal was a crack passenger traind, usually pulled by at least a 4-6-4 ad I can't imagine it getting hauled around by a freight engine(which

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15929	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > No, I am talking about the pre- and post-war coupler that was unique to Gilbert HO. After a hiatus when they were out of HOby '55 they came back and went with the X2F. > Sha-zam! Well, I must admit, my ignorance of Gilbert/AF is encyclopedic (in three gauges). I wasn't aware that there was Gilbert HO before the war. Sorry. That said, it's mortal hard to find pictures of that coupler on the web. The catalog pics of the old cars seem to be taken from track level, so you can't see much. Finally found one  that shows the shape, an angular hook-and-thumb vee in the reverse direction from knuckle couplers, but no details. The wide spread makes it look like it would have good gathering range, so it might be a pretty good choice for what I'm after. If any were available. Which, evidently, they aren't. Can you point me to a decent photo that shows the details, and maybe the draft-gear end and associated springs and hardware? Did it have centering springs or did it press over to one side, like the horn-hook? -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15930	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Already spoken for. > Like, 5 minutes later. > > Gee, I've gotta get quicker on the draw. Well, Dave, if anybody drops four more on you, send two to Don and the next two to me. We'll cover the shipping costs. I think the GP30s, with those batwing dynamic brake blisters, were the best-looking of the early Geeps. -- David > > > So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. > > > I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. > > > Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would > > > be the same drives. > > > Nope. > > > Bachmann. > > > In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the > > > Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. > > > > > > Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch > > > them. > > > I want NO Bachmann stuff. > > > > > > When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? > > > Dave > > > > Heck, if you don't want them I'll take them. The drives are junk but the > > bodies were state of the art at the time, the same shell went to Front Range > > as well as Bachmann. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15931	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

I'll take some pix and post them. Pls give me a day or 2. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > No, I am talking about the pre- and post-war coupler that was unique > to Gilbert HO. After a hiatus when they were out of HOby '55 they came > back and went with the X2F. > > > > Sha-zam! Well, I must admit, my ignorance of Gilbert/AF is encyclopedic > (in three gauges). I wasn't aware that there was Gilbert HO before the > war. Sorry. > > That said, it's mortal hard to find pictures of that coupler on the web. > The catalog pics of the old cars seem to be taken from track level, so > you can't see much. Finally found one > <http://cgi.ebay.com/FLYER-GILBERT-HO-SHELL-TANK-CAR-EX-/230576710009?pt\ > =Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35af716179> that shows the shape, an angular > hook-and-thumb vee in the reverse direction from knuckle couplers, but > no details. The wide spread makes it look like it would have good > gathering range, so it might be a pretty good choice for what I'm after. > > If any were available. > > Which, evidently, they aren't. > > Can you point me to a decent photo that shows the details, and maybe the > draft-gear end and associated springs and hardware? Did it have > centering springs or did it press over to one side, like the horn-hook? > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15932	From: Matthew	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Steve and all, I have one of the Frisco Mikados by GHC and have read several times that they are over-scale. So, just for grins, I compared them with the drawings that appeared in old RMC (early 1950s) of this loco, and compared it directly with an Athearn/Genesis USRA Mikado. The GHC loco is too long, apparently to accommodate the driver flanges and other mechanism parts, but the boiler and cab, while they sit too high (to accommodate the motor?), are nearly the same size as the Genesis loco. The loco has some odd proportions due to the chassis length and height above the rails, but overall, all the parts appear to be HO scale. I plan to keep mine original, but they certainly could be lowered to scale height and be a very good looking loco. Matt Matt > > > I agree that the Frisco Mikado is a good runner. I had one (Operative word is 'Had'), until a squirrel that got into my apartment, knocked it off my work table to the floor, cracking the frame. > > I found the mikado is also oversized for HO. I also collect Scale-Craft OO scale, which I rework for HO track operation with new trucks and couplers, and found the GHC mike is a good engine for pulling those cars. Looks right at home, proportion-wise. > > Would LOVE to get a new frame, but as I would also need the driver wheels, and pilot truck, and money is tight right now, it has to wait. > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15933	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: New addition to vintage collection

Thanks to help from good friend Sean N. I was able to purchase a rare vintage item that many probably never heard of.  If you go to eBay item  350434059628   Rare Cast Alloy Santa Fe PA Alco Diesel Shell.   This cast aluminum shell was made by a company called Hobbies Inc. It was made around 1949-1950. Their first PA Alco was a wood and  stamped aluminum kit. This solid cast body came second. It will be stripped down to the bare metal.        I don't have to much information about the company right at hand but both MR and / or  RMC had ads about the company and the engine. I have to go back and search for them. I do have two other sources to look that has some information. Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Volume II and "The Reporting Mark Newsletter" of the old HOSC&H-SIG. I must refresh my memory as I'm not quite sure if Hobbies Inc. produced other style engines or in different materials then stated above.   It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought members would like to see something from the past.                                        Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15934	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc

Re Jim's   >It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought members would like to see something from the past. <   'The Reporting Mark' V. 15(4) p 4 has mention of the Hobbies Inc Alco pass. diesels (by Dave Spanagel).   I'm still working on an index for V. 16-24 of TRM...underestimated complexity of task!! Will advise if anything further found on Hobbies Inc.   Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15935	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: addendum to Hobbies Inc

Oops! fingers faster than brain...   Forgot to include:   MR ad for the Hobbies Inc Alco PA shells is in the Sept '49 issue.   There is an ?earlier Hobbies Inc ad for die-stamped aluminium EMD E-unit shells in 'The Reporting Mark' article.   Russ again

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15936	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc

Hi Russ,             Thanks for helping save me a lot of searching. I have the first part ( half ) of The Reporting Mark index but not the latter. I also have the ad from MR somewhere but sometimes it's hard to remember all the information off the top of ones head and sometimes even harder to find what you are looking for.      I have to find out more about Pearlier Hobbies Inc. I wonder are they and Hobbies Inc one in the same. I do have information about stamped aluminum bodies for the first Alco run but I thought I remembered they made some other bodies. Your mention of E unit stamped aluminum parts seems to fall in with what I read if this Pearlier is the same.      Down to the basement to find Spanagels write up and to search for the MR ad.  If you ever get the second part of The Reporting Mark index done I know one buyer. How are things down under ? Did the floods abate ?                                   Thanks,                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Shiel To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc   Re Jim's   >It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought members would like to see something from the past. <   'The Reporting Mark' V. 15(4) p 4 has mention of the Hobbies Inc Alco pass. diesels (by Dave Spanagel).   I'm still working on an index for V. 16-24 of TRM...underestimated complexity of task!! Will advise if anything further found on Hobbies Inc.   Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15937	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay

Can anyone comment on this listing: "280621134854" ? Photos of the box label end and the whole instruction sheet would have been instructive. brent_ia, are you a member of this group? Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15938	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc. ads

Russ,              I found The Reporting Mark  Volume 15 Number 4 Page 4 with the two different ads for Hobbies Inc. along with a couple of questions by Dave Spanagel. That first ad shows E units only and talks about die stamped aluminum with wood parts. ( No mention or picture of a PA Alco ).       The bottom ad does show the cast aluminum PA Alco by itself. This would be the same as I just got.       The discrepancy is that I have information about a PA Alco made from stamped aluminum parts and wood which was to be the first type or run before the all cast aluminum one.        Now  I have to wonder if that first type PA Alco was ever made or was there a mistake someone made and it was only an E unit made from stamped aluminum and wood.                                Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15939	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Jim I have an A+B+A that was my Dads he got it in the early 50s. he put an Lindsey power unit in the As with a dummy B. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15940	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

 Jay,            Thanks for the reply and information. I know you had to add your own drives to the bodies. Lindsay was a popular chose. This A-B-A lash up is PA Alcos right ???  I had never heard of Hobbies Inc.having B units but that is because there is so little information out there.         Not only because the engines were your dads but I hope you can hold on to them. A little bit of vintage HO history.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New addition to vintage collection   Jim I have an A+B+A that was my Dads he got it in the early 50s. he put an Lindsey power unit in the As with a dummy B. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15941	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay

----- Original Message ----- From: "al45390" <bayerw2@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay > Can anyone comment on this listing: "280621134854" ? > Photos of the box label end and the whole instruction sheet would have > been instructive. brent_ia, are you a member of this group? > > Walter I tell ya, that sure is tempting! Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15942	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads

I wonder if that's what my mystery E-6 is. You may recall we went around about it a couple years ago. Metal sides and roof in one piece, nose is wood. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc. ads Russ, I found The Reporting Mark Volume 15 Number 4 Page 4 with the two different ads for Hobbies Inc. along with a couple of questions by Dave Spanagel. That first ad shows E units only and talks about die stamped aluminum with wood parts. ( No mention or picture of a PA Alco ). The bottom ad does show the cast aluminum PA Alco by itself. This would be the same as I just got. The discrepancy is that I have information about a PA Alco made from stamped aluminum parts and wood which was to be the first type or run before the all cast aluminum one. Now I have to wonder if that first type PA Alco was ever made or was there a mistake someone made and it was only an E unit made from stamped aluminum and wood. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15943	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads

Don,       I remember your picture of that E-6 engine with the wood nose distinctly.. I also remember trying to pin down what it was. I think, at that time, we discussed the possibility it was this Hobbies Inc E unit engine that is described in the ad. I don't know if you have access to the ad. I could send you a picture but the ad is on the poor side to start with being copied in a newsletter. I will try to copy the wording for you. Might help.                          H-O Diesel Locomotive                         Sides    Ends    Roof    Perfect detail reproduced faithfully in gleaming side stamped .  Aluminum.     Now it is simple and inexpensive to build that    roster of DIESELS you've needed to complete your railroad.                  2 sides       2 ends    &    1 Roof                  with all wood parts,           $2.00                             HOBBIES INC.                       707 North Gower Street                        Hollywood 38, California       While it talks about wood parts I don't see a wood nose mentioned specifically which doesn't mean it wasn't part of the kit. Trying to reach back to when your engine was discussed I keep remembering there was something that kept us for saying Hobbies Inc for your engine. Did it possibly have something to do with the type of metal being different then the aluminum mentioned. Just wondering. I really hope you could get the ID for your knowledge.                                                 Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc. ads   I wonder if that's what my mystery E-6 is. You may recall we went around about it a couple years ago. Metal sides and roof in one piece, nose is wood. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc. ads Russ, I found The Reporting Mark Volume 15 Number 4 Page 4 with the two different ads for Hobbies Inc. along with a couple of questions by Dave Spanagel. That first ad shows E units only and talks about die stamped aluminum with wood parts. ( No mention or picture of a PA Alco ). The bottom ad does show the cast aluminum PA Alco by itself. This would be the same as I just got. The discrepancy is that I have information about a PA Alco made from stamped aluminum parts and wood which was to be the first type or run before the all cast aluminum one. Now I have to wonder if that first type PA Alco was ever made or was there a mistake someone made and it was only an E unit made from stamped aluminum and wood. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15944	From: jbark76	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay

I have this kit with the instructions (the end of the box is un-readable). It is what JC called a 68' combination. I have a paper one and the "Silver Sides" version. What would you like to know? -Jeff-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15945	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Interesting......... I've never heard of the company........ But I got one of the bodies in shining bare metal about five years ago. I've tried to find out who made it, but no one knew at the time. Finally, I know.......... Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 26, 2011, at 3:19 PM, jim heckard wrote: > > > > > > Thanks to help from good friend Sean N. I was able to purchase > a rare vintage item that many probably never heard of. If you go to > eBay item 350434059628 Rare Cast Alloy Santa Fe PA Alco Diesel > Shell. This cast aluminum shell was made by a company called > Hobbies Inc. It was made around 1949-1950. Their first PA Alco was a > wood and stamped aluminum kit. This solid cast body came second. It > will be stripped down to the bare metal. > > I don't have to much information about the company right at > hand but both MR and / or RMC had ads about the company and the > engine. I have to go back and search for them. I do have two other > sources to look that has some information. Lenahan's Locomotive > Lexicon Volume II and "The Reporting Mark Newsletter" of the old > HOSC&H-SIG. I must refresh my memory as I'm not quite sure if > Hobbies Inc. produced other style engines or in different materials > then stated above. > > It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought > members would like to see something from the past. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15946	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Jim They are Alco PAs  . They are packed away somewhere. I will look for them. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15947	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim,     Thank you for your reply.  I do know Bill and agree with you that he is quite a Penn Line expert.   Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.       Frank,        First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter.       I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown.  Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars.  Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy.       I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all  perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws.       I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel.                                            Jim H.     ----- Original Message ----- From: fydill@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   I read with interest about your correspondence with Mr. B. Paul and the GG-1.  I remember visiting the home of Bob Faust, Penn Line President, some 50 years ago. Mr. Faust was talking about how that "bleeping" Paul had sent Penn Line's GG-1 and some other locos to Japan to be copied.  He had evidence Paul had copied Penn Line's model rather than using original railroad specs. This evidence was that Paul's product incorporated all of the subtle compromises and inaccuracies of the Penn Line product. I know that the most obvious inaccuracy was the length of GG-1, but I wonder if anyone in the group knows of any other that would prove Mr. Faust's claim. Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15948	From: al45390	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Pre-War Gilbert Tru-Model freight train set on Ebay

Since this is listed under S Scale and O Scale only, NOT under HO where it belongs, I thought I should call it to the groups attention. This is really vintage! http://cgi.ebay.com/AM-FLYER-TRU-MODEL-HO-SET-w-HUDSON-BX-TANK-GOND-CABOOSE-/180615210985?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a0d8167e9 Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15949	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers - Ho

David, Pending the completion of charging my camera, here is a link to the 1948 Gilbert Ho catalog index, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1517/AF_catalog_index1.htm". This catalog and many other Gilbert  catalogs are on the "MyFlyerTrains.org" website. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15950	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > Pending the completion of charging my camera, here is a link to the 1948 > Gilbert Ho catalog index, " Thanks, Walter. The catalog photos give me a little better idea of the couplers, but wow! I now know what kind of rectifier I want if I ever manage to acquire the Atlas Turbo Express rail-cars. Right out of a Flash Gordon movie - use it for Sci-Fi scenery while it turns your AC into DC. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15951	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Coupler Experience?

C'mon guys ... surely someone has some experience with the Mantua Loop Couplers. Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - Do they reliably couple on contact? Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - Do they auto-couple on tight curves? Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight curves than horn-hook or Kadee? I don't mind the looks - there's a nifty retro quality to them with old equipment on a minimum-space layout. I just want some info before gambling on buying a batch to experiment with on 13"-15" curves. Thanks to anyone who responds. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15952	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

I use them. *If adjusted right, and the hook is not badly deformed by previous owners, yes. Hook can easily be adjusted by comparing to a "known good" and bending with straight hemostats. *Absolutely *No. The pins are pretty far under the car end, but I am sure someone has developed a "tool" for it. *I only have 3/4 of a circle of 12" curves, so can't tell you on sub-15" radius. *How tight? *I think so. Since I am always on the prowl for Mantuas, I hate to have someone else on the same hunt.....but, go for it. They were "the standard" before Kadees. Dave > C'mon guys ... surely someone has some experience with the Mantua Loop > Couplers. > > Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - > > * Do they reliably couple on contact? > * Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? > * Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? > And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - > > * Do they auto-couple on tight curves? > * Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight > curves than horn-hook or Kadee? > > I don't mind the looks - there's a nifty retro quality to them with old > equipment on a minimum-space layout. I just want some info before > gambling on buying a batch to experiment with on 13"-15" curves. > > Thanks to anyone who responds. > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15953	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

Those couplers were in a set of Mantua kits  bought in 1953.  They couple well and stay coupled, not sure how you could uncouple them without a ramp.  Once had a string tip over in a derailment one after the other.  Next I tried Varney automatics, they had the same issues, about that time X2f's from NMRA came out, quickly switched to KD and used them  ever since.  Roger Aultman      ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Coupler Experience?   C'mon guys ... surely someone has some experience with the Mantua Loop Couplers. Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - Do they reliably couple on contact? Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - Do they auto-couple on tight curves? Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight curves than horn-hook or Kadee? I don't mind the looks - there's a nifty retro quality to them with old equipment on a minimum-space layout. I just want some info before gambling on buying a batch to experiment with on 13"-15" curves. Thanks to anyone who responds. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15954	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Very cool item. I've never seen another What are you going to do for a drive? This beast wants to run! Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15955	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

Thanks for the information, Dave and Roger. To answer Roger's questions, --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave sayss: > I use them. > > Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - > > > > * Do they reliably couple on contact? > > * Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? > > * Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? > *If adjusted right, and the hook is not badly deformed by previous owners, yes. Hook can easily be adjusted by comparing to a "known good" and bending with straight hemostats. > *Absolutely > *No. The pins are pretty far under the car end, but I am sure someone has developed a "tool" for it. > > And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - > *I only have 3/4 of a circle of 12" curves, so can't tell you on sub-15" radius. If you're happy with the loop couplers, I assume they are handling your 3/4 circle of 12"R well enough. Your 12" is under 15, and I doubt I'll have more than 3/4 of a circle in one place. > > * Do they auto-couple on tight curves? > *How tight? It will probably be 13"R. I'll tighten in the middle to 12" if I have to, but with a bit of an easement to lead in. Tests I've done indicate that at 12"R, 40' cars can start bumping corners. I might be able to go tighter if I used shorter cars, but I want to stick with 40-footers. > > * Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight > > curves than horn-hook or Kadee? > *I think so. > > Since I am always on the prowl for Mantuas, I hate to have someone else on the same hunt.....but, go for it. I sympathize with your situation, but I probably won't remove more than 20 pairs from the market, total. Just enough cars for a very small switching layout and 8-car fiddle yard. Thanks again to all for taking the time to reply. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15956	From: al45390	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers

David, I took the photos, "Photo-Shop"ed them, and created a new album titled, "Gilbert pre-X2F Couplers". I am the original owner since my childhood of the post War RPO and tank car. The pre-War coach was bought on Ebay a few years back. Note that the the couplers are Talgo mounted on the post War cars and body mounted on the pre-War car. On the latter you can see the spring mechanism. By the way, I do not know if the couplers on the pre-War coach are original or if they were replaced by copies. To me, they don't look original. Maybe someone in the group can enlighten us. If anyone in the group has a few of the Gilbert couplers, post War draft gear, and or pre-War spring mechanisms, I'd like to buy them from you. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > Pending the completion of charging my camera, here is a link to the > 1948 > > Gilbert Ho catalog index, " > > Thanks, Walter. The catalog photos give me a little better idea of the > couplers, but wow! I now know what kind of rectifier > <http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1517/AF_catalog_page14-15.htm\ > > I want if I ever manage to acquire the Atlas Turbo Express rail-cars > <http://www.hoseeker.net/AthearnBrochuresAds/TURBORACERFLYER.jpg> . > Right out of a Flash Gordon movie - use it for Sci-Fi scenery while it > turns your AC into DC. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15957	From: Wally Weart	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

I started model railroading in 1952 with Strombecker cars, Globe diesels and a Varney dockside. I used Mantua couplers as that was one of the few options I had. They worked OK and would uncouple with a ramp. The loop allowed the car on which they were mounted to take the  typical tight radius curves common in those days. Uncoupling by hand was difficult as you get the hook to slip off the loop, not always easily done. Of course, they were also were completely unrealistic in appearance. I tried the early Roundhouse knuckle couplers and, at least they looked better. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15958	From: James Bartelt	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: (no subject)

http://mlykatka.ic.cz/goodpeople.php

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15959	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: JC Cardstock combine

I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? If it is I don't want to step on any toes. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address harvesters for spam. The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15961	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Hi Don,       Just for clarification when you talk about Jim's address book being compromised you are talking about James Bartelt and not me Jim H.       I don't use Twitter, Facebook or other things similar and have a router on my system to limit the chance to be compromised. I want people who contact me either on site or off that I have no problem.   Thanks                                                          Jim H  ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] (unknown)   Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address harvesters for spam. The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15962	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Never heard of Grouply. So, I looked. This from the snopes discussion board: There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. > > Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. > > This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other > networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address > harvesters for spam. > > The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my > lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from > the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15963	From: George Frey	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Grouply IS spam do not sign up!!!!   George E. Frey Sr Proud member of 1/87 yahoo Military Models group orangetrainman33@...   From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 10:08:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: (unknown)   Never heard of Grouply. So, I looked. This from the snopes discussion board: There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. > > Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. > > This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other > networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address > harvesters for spam. > > The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my > lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from > the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...> > GROUPLY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15964	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Hi George,   I would hope nobody is stupid enough to actually sign up for grouply, and snopes has no business grouping facebook and myspace in with grouply either, as they aren't anything like grouply!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: George Frey <orangetrainman33@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:46:25 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: (unknown)   Grouply IS spam do not sign up!!!!   George E. Frey Sr Proud member of 1/87 yahoo Military Models group orangetrainman33@...   From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 10:08:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: (unknown)   Never heard of Grouply. So, I looked. This from the snopes discussion board: There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. > > Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. > > This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other > networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address > harvesters for spam. > > The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my > lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from > the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...> > GROUPLY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15965	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

I am bidding on it, but it is fair game. I really don't know what it is worth. Kent Hurley Kansas City nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was > going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? If > it is I don't want to step on any toes. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15966	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

How can you accurately date it? Be nice if the plans were dated--can't tell. Anyway, it's all yours, folks. Am tired of forming those roof ends even though they come out well with experience. Going to keep it as is for the collection and not build it?   Art W   In a message dated 1/30/2011 3:48:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nvrr49@... writes: I am bidding on it, but it is fair game.  I really don't know what it is worth. Kent Hurley Kansas City nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid.  I was > going to bid as it got close to the end,  but is it anyone here who bid?  If > it is I don't want to step on any toes. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15967	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

----- Original Message ----- From: "nvrr49" <nvrr49@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine >I am bidding on it, but it is fair game. I really don't know what it is >worth. > > Kent Hurley > Kansas City > nvrr49.blogspot.com If you don't mind. I know what I can afford, may the best man win :-) Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15968	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

If I win it will be built. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <luvprr@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine > How can you accurately date it? Be nice if the plans were dated--can't > tell. Anyway, it's all yours, folks. Am tired of forming those roof ends > even > though they come out well with experience. Going to keep it as is for the > collection and not build it? > > Art W > > > In a message dated 1/30/2011 3:48:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > nvrr49@... writes: > > I am bidding on it, but it is fair game. I really don't know what it is > worth. > > Kent Hurley > Kansas City > nvrr49.blogspot.com > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was >> going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? > If >> it is I don't want to step on any toes. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15969	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Springfield train show

I went to the subject show on Saturday with a few of my model railroading friends. Normally you can expect to find one or two individuals selling older stuff, or some dealers with a few older kits mixed in with current kits and RTR, but there was a real bonanza at one set of tables this year. As I remember, the sign over the tables read "Collection of Fred Farrar," and when I looked it up on the Amherst web site it showed tables assigned to Carolyn Farrar (Wife? Daughter?). Anyway, items for sale dated back to the 1940s and possibly even the '30s. There were, among other things, diesels from Hobbytown of Boston and Lindsay, lots of Varney (including a partially-built Yellowstone), and Blue Line passenger cars. Many of the items were still in their original boxes. Prices, at least for the majority of items, were pretty reasonable. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15970	From: erieberk	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

As the Seller wrote a few inaccuracies about the dates these JC Models kits were made, it leads me to wonder if he's correct in stating it's a scale 72' 6" long -- only as JC never had standard passenger car combines longer than 70' after they converted to having embossed metal sides. There's still the possibility that this cardstock side kit is as long as he states, but from all appearances -- including the window configurations of both the baggage door and the passenger compartent, it matches up identically with their later(metal side) HO 11 New York Central Baggage Coach, which is actually shorter than his estimate for this cardstock-sided model. The brief history that JC MOdels includes in their catalog pages states that -- "JC Models has been building passenger and head end cars exclusively since 1939." (not 1938, as the Seller indicates). Additionally, Ma Webster's (Model R.R. Equipment Corp.) 1950 catalog lists the firm's offerings that year of JC Models as having -- "Stamped aluminum sides, die cast ends, die cast parts." The JC Models NYC Combine is listed as 68' long. Since JC models was already producing their stamped aluminum "Silversides" by 1950, it makes me wonder when their first year of producing kits with Silversides was. Perhaps they were introduced immediately post-War, with the cardstock sides only being produced pre-War, but I have no earlier info on their early material. Ads in MR or RMC may offer some insight though. BTW, while their kits were designed for specific prototype railroads (primarily NYC, N&W and PRR, and including Pullman), they state a number of their cars (by kit number) may be used for other roads not otherwise indicated, such as D&RGW, B&O, CNJ, RDG, NH and the Freedom Train (1947-49). I prefer the aluminum-sides Silversides kits, so I won't be bidding on this auction, but the item is definitely "vintage" and a nice find. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was > going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? If > it is I don't want to step on any toes. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15971	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Varney Aerotrain

While I'm not into the real vintage (pre-1950) HO, I do like a lot of the early plastic and some zamac that was just coming on the market. One item I've had my eyes on lately has been the Varney model of the GM Aerotrain. By watching eBay lately I could see that some people were willing to pay big bucks to get their hands on this train. In my posting about the Springfield (MA) train show, I mentioned the sale of the "Collection of Fred Farrar." In there I found an original 3-part kit (dummy loco, coach, and obs), still in the original box with the assembly instructions, for just $10. Didn't take long for that to make its way into my bag of goodies. I have a question, though. The kit includes drawbars to be used between units, but there's no way to use one between the coach and the obs. The instructions show the a drawbar pinned to the end of the unit with a plastic "rivet", but the coach only has one end. I can connect the units using the "diaphram" that's included, but that's a rigid piece of plastic. Am I missing an end piece? Or was this kit meant to be assembled and displayed only on a straight piece of track? Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15972	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

"If I win it will be built." Don Me Too Kent

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15973	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is supposed to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15974	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

The roof ribs fell off? Tsk, tsk, tsk! The builder did not properly clean and prep the surfaces to be glued, did he, or this would just not happen. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:22 PM, <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is supposed to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15975	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

That is certainly possible.  He probably should have let them sit in vinegar for a while after cleaning.  The rest of the car seems sound, but truthfully, I have never been impressed with the use of Ambroid cement on anything but balsa wood.  For sure, I never felt like it would adhere metal to wood very well.  In fact, it didn't take much from the X-acto knife to pop up the glue from the wooden roof base. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:32:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   The roof ribs fell off? Tsk, tsk, tsk! The builder did not properly clean and prep the surfaces to be glued, did he, or this would just not happen. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:22 PM, <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is supposed to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15976	From: tomml57	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

Hi Ralph, does the observation car have 2 ends, I would think the observation would have one end if it meant to be at the back of the train, or is it like a vistadome and that maybe it would go in the middle. My other theory is, is it possible that the underframes of the observation and coach got switched? Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > While I'm not into the real vintage (pre-1950) HO, I do like a lot of the early plastic and some zamac that was just coming on the market. One item I've had my eyes on lately has been the Varney model of the GM Aerotrain. By watching eBay lately I could see that some people were willing to pay big bucks to get their hands on this train. > > In my posting about the Springfield (MA) train show, I mentioned the sale of the "Collection of Fred Farrar." In there I found an original 3-part kit (dummy loco, coach, and obs), still in the original box with the assembly instructions, for just $10. Didn't take long for that to make its way into my bag of goodies. > > I have a question, though. The kit includes drawbars to be used between units, but there's no way to use one between the coach and the obs. The instructions show the a drawbar pinned to the end of the unit with a plastic "rivet", but the coach only has one end. I can connect the units using the "diaphram" that's included, but that's a rigid piece of plastic. Am I missing an end piece? Or was this kit meant to be assembled and displayed only on a straight piece of track? > > Ralph B >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15977	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15978	From: RalphB	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom wrote: > > ...does the observation car have 2 ends Yes. The front end of the car is cast integral with the body while the fancy rear end is a separate casting. In fact, both carbodies are identical; what sets the obs apart is that add-on rear end. Looking at photos of the prototype on the Bowser web site (http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/aerotrain.htm), you can see this. > ...is it possible that the underframes of the observation and coach got switched? There are no underframes for the cars. They only have what is called a "wheel holder" into which you snap the wheel & axle; one of these is then glued into the body at each end. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15979	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Thanks very much for this.  I do know that some reefers of this era did use silver paint in certain areas, because of the special insulation qualities.  But, I suspect that when re-paint time came around, it was easier to use all one color, especially as cars aged.  I could not find any photos of these cars on the web, do you know where some are? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15980	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

Good!  Well worth the effort.  The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense with a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very sharp and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding  embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's succeeding quite-crude  cast lead alloy ends.  I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even contemporary models of far greater pretence.   Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:  "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@...   don_dellmann Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 pm (PST) If I win it will be built.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15981	From: JAMES GITTS	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: JC passenger cars found for sale at the springfield show still avail

Hello, I just returned from west springfield and know a dealer set up there had several N.I.B. JC models passenger cars for sale , i believe they are the metal side kits. My friend had bought N.I.B Ulrich tractor trailer kits mint for a very reasonable price , so i think these too would be priced the same. I have no interest in them but would be glad to pass on the information about them. I don't want to post the shops name without their permission....James Gitts ple38ATcomcastDOTnet

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15983	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15984	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Well, not to defend the guy exactly, but he obviously thought of them personally as basically junk (maybe he's a youngster with little sense of history  as of yet ) and shipped them with that in mind. At the other end of the spectrum I've gotten stuff that was almost worthless and was packed like it was virtually priceless. Packing was probably worth more than the item. Hard to strike a balance at times, but there's not excuse for being rude about it as Sean says he was.    In a message dated 2/1/2011 2:27:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15985	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Accidents happen, especially during shipping  that is not the problem I have here.   The real problem here is that he has relisted them giving no information as to their current condition and has not updated the pictures.  Many of the details you see in the listing pictures are knocked off and one tender (made of cardboard) was actually crushed. With shipping I paid over $200 for the lot. I hate to se anyone go through that.    As many know, I sell. As a seller, I find that to be very dishonest and shady.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2011, at 2:43 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Well, not to defend the guy exactly, but he obviously thought of them personally as basically junk (maybe he's a youngster with little sense of history  as of yet ) and shipped them with that in mind. At the other end of the spectrum I've gotten stuff that was almost worthless and was packed like it was virtually priceless. Packing was probably worth more than the item. Hard to strike a balance at times, but there's not excuse for being rude about it as Sean says he was.    In a message dated 2/1/2011 2:27:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15986	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Ouch! For 200 bucks I would have expected better packing myself--even if the stuff was totally worthless.   Art W   In a message dated 2/1/2011 3:07:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a69mustang4me@... writes: Accidents happen, especially during shipping  that is not the problem I have here.   The real problem here is that he has relisted them giving no information as to their current condition and has not updated the pictures.  Many of the details you see in the listing pictures are knocked off and one tender (made of cardboard) was actually crushed. With shipping I paid over $200 for the lot. I hate to se anyone go through that.    As many know, I sell. As a seller, I find that to be very dishonest and shady.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2011, at 2:43 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Well, not to defend the guy exactly, but he obviously thought of them personally as basically junk (maybe he's a youngster with little sense of history  as of yet ) and shipped them with that in mind. At the other end of the spectrum I've gotten stuff that was almost worthless and was packed like it was virtually priceless. Packing was probably worth more than the item. Hard to strike a balance at times, but there's not excuse for being rude about it as Sean says he was.    In a message dated 2/1/2011 2:27:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15987	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15988	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are:   The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping.   BEST~ RS   - lildrmmr   item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped quickly-Thanks-AA++   My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little strange?   Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested.   Art W               In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jodanjackkayla@... writes: Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15989	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

A good rule of thumb is that there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. What better way to refuse an accepted bid? What better way to get rid of mangled junk? It seems over the years I have certainly heard a lot of "poor me" commentary. Makes one wonder....aloud, even. Just add the comments from the seller to those of the buyer, and you might get some idea of what really happened. > Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his > packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are: > > The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured > insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the > previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy > return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it > because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont > be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% > refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping. > > BEST~ > RS > > > - lildrmmr > > > item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped > quickly-Thanks-AA++ > > My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved > the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little > strange? > > Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested. > > Art W > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jodanjackkayla@... writes: > > > > Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but > salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > > -----Original message----- > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 > Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. > They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into > a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as > protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was > the seller aggressive and rude.. > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. > I was so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > _http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts > -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad > 79) > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > _http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/_ > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/) > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15990	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Well Art. All I can say is maybe he learned his lesson from Sean on how to pack. The engines I got from him were put in ziploc bags with no padding. They were able to move around the box and get damaged. So I don't believe the truth is anywhere near the middle on this one. Sent via DROI,D on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 01:08:23 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   A good rule of thumb is that there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. What better way to refuse an accepted bid? What better way to get rid of mangled junk? It seems over the years I have certainly heard a lot of "poor me" commentary. Makes one wonder....aloud, even. Just add the comments from the seller to those of the buyer, and you might get some idea of what really happened. > Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his > packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are: > > The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured > insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the > previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy > return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it > because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont > be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% > refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping. > > BEST~ > RS > > > - lildrmmr > > > item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped > quickly-Thanks-AA++ > > My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved > the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little > strange? > > Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested. > > Art W > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jodanjackkayla@... writes: > > > > Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but > salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > > -----Original message----- > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 > Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. > They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into > a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as > protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was > the seller aggressive and rude.. > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. > I was so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > _http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts > -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad > 79) > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > _http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/_ > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/) > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15991	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Vic - I have looked in every source I have, but no luck.  I found plenty of CN steel 8-hatch reefers, most painted entirely gray or aluminum, and one picture of a very worn gray one with the BCR (including roof and door) showing thru. Reed -----Original Message----- From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 9:26 am Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Thanks very much for this.  I do know that some reefers of this era did use silver paint in certain areas, because of the special insulation qualities.  But, I suspect that when re-paint time came around, it was easier to use all one color, especially as cars aged.  I could not find any photos of these cars on the web, do you know where some are? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15992	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .   In a message dated 2/1/2011 8:28:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jodanjackkayla@... writes: Well Art. All I can say is maybe he learned his lesson from Sean on how to pack. The engines I got from him were put in ziploc bags with no padding. They were able to move around the box and get damaged. So I don't believe the truth is anywhere near the middle on this one. Sent via DROI,D on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 01:08:23 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   A good rule of thumb is that there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. What better way to refuse an accepted bid? What better way to get rid of mangled junk? It seems over the years I have certainly heard a lot of "poor me" commentary. Makes one wonder....aloud, even. Just add the comments from the seller to those of the buyer, and you might get some idea of what really happened. > Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his > packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are: > > The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured > insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the > previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy > return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it > because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont > be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% > refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping. > > BEST~ > RS > > > - lildrmmr > > > item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped > quickly-Thanks-AA++ > > My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved > the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little > strange? > > Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested. > > Art W > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jodanjackkayla@... writes: > > > > Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but > salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > > -----Original message----- > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 > Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. > They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into > a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as > protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was > the seller aggressive and rude.. > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. > I was so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > _http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts > -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad > 79) > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > _http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/_ > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/) > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15993	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Take Sean's warning for what it is...  An effort to protect the rest of us.  I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item.  Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs.  Some of the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well.  I include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well because I have experienced much damage.  The ones who do not heed my warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods.  Most of them will do all they can to work out the problem agreeably.  Rotten ones get complaints, poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. Thanks for the effort Sean... I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years of buying on eBay. Happy buying, selling and railroading...  Don Staton in VA Snipped ================================================================= On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15994	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

With respect to "handlers" I can't let this go till I add a supportive experience and warning of my own. I once upgraded a Penn Line loco and sent it to a client in Texas. I was certain I had packed it well but didn't appreciate what the weight of the loco would do to it within the confines of the packing. I was horrified to get an email detailing the damage to the boiler front and pilot. The buyer agreed that I had done a good job in packing, but that I hadn't figured on what the postal system would do to it. The package was insured, but getting reimbursement for the damage was a real hassle, so when the actual "handler" was located at the local post office it was helpful to hear that he freely admitted that he routinely tossed packages about 30 feet onto a concrete surface if they weren't clearly marked as being "fragile." (Must have been a Cowboy wanna-be) Talk about learning lessons. . .   Art W   In a message dated 2/1/2011 9:09:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Take Sean's warning for what it is...  An effort to protect the rest of us.  I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item.  Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs.  Some of the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well.  I include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well because I have experienced much damage.  The ones who do not heed my warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods.  Most of them will do all they can to work out the problem agreeably.  Rotten ones get complaints, poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. Thanks for the effort Sean... I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years of buying on eBay. Happy buying, selling and railroading...  Don Staton in VA Snipped ================================================================= On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15995	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Being in business, and shipping fairly large items to all points, the absolute worse thing you can do, USPS, UPS oe FedUp, is to mark something "fragile". The only damage I have experienced has been on packages so marked. They have a lunchtime soccer game with "fragile" packages. Latest one was OOOps, a week or 10 days ago. Stack snapped off, headlight and bracket snaped off, all cab windows out, at least one gear snapped in gearbox. Insured for $1500, packed in factory die-cut Styrofoam container and box, in another box full of plastic peanuts, and they are arguing. Came from PRC to NY, then to Philly, then the distibutor, then the dealer, then the customer, then clear cross country to me, and going back to the customer in the same box they destroyed it. I do have other examples. > With respect to "handlers" I can't let this go till I add a supportive > experience and warning of my own. I once upgraded a Penn Line loco and sent it > to a client in Texas. I was certain I had packed it well but didn't > appreciate what the weight of the loco would do to it within the confines of the > packing. I was horrified to get an email detailing the damage to the boiler > front and pilot. The buyer agreed that I had done a good job in packing, > but that I hadn't figured on what the postal system would do to it. The > package was insured, but getting reimbursement for the damage was a real hassle, > so when the actual "handler" was located at the local post office it was > helpful to hear that he freely admitted that he routinely tossed packages > about 30 feet onto a concrete surface if they weren't clearly marked as being > "fragile." (Must have been a Cowboy wanna-be) Talk about learning lessons. > . . > > Art W > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 9:09:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > chpln1@... writes: > > > > Take Sean's warning for what it is... An effort to protect the rest of > us. I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to > teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item. > Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs. Some of > the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well. I > include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well > because I have experienced much damage. The ones who do not heed my > warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods. Most of them will do all > they can to work out the problem agreeably. Rotten ones get complaints, > poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. > > Thanks for the effort Sean... > > I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years > of buying on eBay. > > Happy buying, selling and railroading... Don Staton in VA > > Snipped > ================================================================= > On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, _luvprr@..._ (mailto:luvprr@...) wrote: > > Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I > think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . . >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15996	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

I'll find out all about it in a few days. :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine Good! Well worth the effort. The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense with a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very sharp and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's succeeding quite-crude cast lead alloy ends. I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even contemporary models of far greater pretence. Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: > "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@... don_dellmann > Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 pm (PST) > > > > If I win it will be built.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15997	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Thanks Don, That is all it was meant to be. I am in not way trying to create a huge debate here or state some eBay bad seller bashing session. I just happen to know the true condition of this particular listing and it is nothing like what the seller has pictured or described. I think by posting my pictures of the items as I received them and the sellers listing as he currently has it, it should be pretty clear my and the sellers true intentions. That's all. I sell too as many here already know, including our moderator and I take tremendous pride in what I collect and or provide and how I provide it. I would just hate to see someone else pick this lot up and be as disappointed and surprised as I was by it's poor condition. Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 9:09:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Take Sean's warning for what it is...  An effort to protect the rest of us.  I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item.  Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs.  Some of the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well.  I include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well because I have experienced much damage.  The ones who do not heed my warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods.  Most of them will do all they can to work out the problem agreeably.  Rotten ones get complaints, poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. Thanks for the effort Sean... I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years of buying on eBay. Happy buying, selling and railroading...  Don Staton in VA Snipped ================================================================= On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15998	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

I have also received an engine now and then with the pilot bent in.  What happens is that the engine is heavy and moves like a little battering ram.  If the boiler front isn't supported extremely well, when it moves the engine just plows through foam and whatever and the pilot, the item protruding the most, hits something harder.   I have found most ebayers to be very good with only the occasional weasel.  And I make sure I'm not a weasel myself.  For example, I just bought an O gauge Walthers "Piker" kit.  When I got it, the sides, ends, and truck were missing.  The first reaction is the usual "What the...!"   I revisited the auction page and the seller had a dozen detailed photos and if I had studied them, I might have seen the discrepencies.  However, in her auction page she said "I think it's complete" and she had the type of page with just the one photo at the top left and then all the rest down in the body of the description.  The one photo seemed right and I was perhaps lulled into complacency with her "complete" opinion.  I don't think I was even aware of all those other photos further on down the page.  There were four other bidders and I strongly suspect they thought like I did.  (Walthers kit buyers are likely savvy about the things.)  She offered to give me a partial or full refund and also asked what more she could have done so it didn't happen again.  Very classy.  But she tried hard and really did nothing wrong.  I advised that if completeness is not truly know, some sellers say things like "may be missing parts".  But if not that, don't express an opinion about it if you don't now.  I felt it was mianly a bidder problem (me) so I just left the deal as-is.  It also had a bag of stripwood, nut and bolt castings, and other goodies as well as all the other Piker parts - so it isn't a total loss.   One weasel I won't name (but is probably known to many that buy used HO on ebay) has been just a little too slippery at times.  I bought a Kemtron Thomas Flyer kit mint in original box and the auction said it included the "copy of the manual".  The "copy" was actually a photocopy he had made for the occasion.  I asked him about this and it turns out he kept the original (collectible in its own right) and I had to buy it seperately in order to get it.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   With respect to "handlers" I can't let this go till I add a supportive experience and warning of my own. I once upgraded a Penn Line loco and sent it to a client in Texas. I was certain I had packed it well but didn't appreciate what the weight of the loco would do to it within the confines of the packing. I was horrified to get an email detailing the damage to the boiler front and pilot. The buyer agreed that I had done a good job in packing, but that I hadn't figured on what the postal system would do to it. The package was insured, but getting reimbursement for the damage was a real hassle, so when the actual "handler" was located at the local post office it was helpful to hear that he freely admitted that he routinely tossed packages about 30 feet onto a concrete surface if they weren't clearly marked as being "fragile." (Must have been a Cowboy wanna-be) Talk about learning lessons. . .   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15999	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

Congrats! I look forward to seeing your photos. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   I'll find out all about it in a few days. :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine Good! Well worth the effort. The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense with a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very sharp and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's succeeding quite-crude cast lead alloy ends. I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even contemporary models of far greater pretence. Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: > "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@... don_dellmann > Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 pm (PST) > > > > If I win it will be built. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16000	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

OK, so why does the guy have a 100% positive ebay rating if at least two of you received damaged materials???????? Lawrence D. (Dale) Hokanson dale.hokanson@... ____________________________________________________________________

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16001	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Thanks for the warning. Did you give the person bad feedback? Maybe you should contact Ebay about this person`s auction? Earl Poulsen Vancouver, WA --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16002	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Larry,   I left feedback by accident. I was only unhappy with the one transaction. The other lot was already in pieces and no additional damage was done to it, so a positive feedback was deserving on that lot.   I had ~100 feedbacks to go through and I had only a couple minutes to place them and I overlooked his transaction.   I tend to leave positives, so it was easy to do. I was quite digusted when I discovered I had done it myself.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Dale Hokanson <dale.hokanson@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 12:33:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   OK, so why does the guy have a 100% positive ebay rating if at least two of you received damaged materials???????? Lawrence D. (Dale) Hokanson dale.hokanson@... __________________________________________________________

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16003	From: tom leen	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

Hi Ralph, From the pictures you posted of the train, it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the passenger and the observation.  Can you see where one might have originally been attached?  Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16004	From: RalphB	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: > , > ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the passenger and the observation. ------------------------------ No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I have two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body is missing a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct another car end since, like the rest of the train, it's rather simple construction. Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. He doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train at a show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together so I can see what the differences are. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16005	From: tom leen	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

Hi Ralph, Ohhh!  I misunderstood.  I thought you had the correct parts.  That's a shame that it wound up like that.  I would definitely talk to your guy at the club.  It also sounds like you're pretty handy fashioning pieces.  Good luck. Best always, Tom --- On Thu, 2/3/11, RalphB <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: From: RalphB <Alpvalsys@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Aerotrain To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 2:24 PM   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: > , > ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the passenger and the observation. ------------------------------ No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I have two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body is missing a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct another car end since, like the rest of the train, it's rather simple construction. Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. He doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train at a show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together so I can see what the differences are. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16006	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

The Varney Aerotrain observation body is just like a coach missing one end. Bowser now sells the parts for the Varney AeroTrain. They were missing the original die for the two piece Varney Aerotrain end and eventually made a new one piece casting in clear styrene. You can buy one for about $5 and use it until you might find an original Varney casting set of end and window. The Bowser end will fit just like the OOP Varney end on your Aerotrain. You'll have to mask the window portion of the end and paint to match the rest of the train. http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/3_300.pdf The observation part number is #2575, found in their parts listing as "Bowser 2575 OBSERVATION END $5.29 " You can also buy the parts for several more cars or engines if you wish. here are many of those parts...... Bowser 2554 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY PRR $32.99 Bowser 2555 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY RI $32.99 Bowser 2556 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY NYC $32.99 Bowser 2557 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY UP $32.99 Bowser 2558 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY GM $29.03 Bowser 2559 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY PRR $23.74 Bowser 2560 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY RI $23.74 Bowser 2561 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY NYC_UP_GM $19.77 Bowser 2563 AEROTRAIN OBS BODY RI $30.35 Bowser 2564 AEROTRAIN OBS BODY NYC_UP_GM $26.38 Bowser 2565 AEROTRAIN OBS. BODY UNDEC $7.94 Bowser 2566 AEROTRAIN COACH DIAPHRAM $1.99 Bowser 2567 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY $9.26 Bowser 2568 AERO TRAIN BOLSER W/CPLR POCKET $1.66 Bowser 2569 AEROTRAIN DRAWBAR PIN $0.99 Bowser 2570 AEROTRAIN COACH DRAWBAR $0.99 Bowser 2571 AEROTRAIN 2 PIECE BODY $11.90 Bowser 2572 AERO TAIN HEADLIGHT $0.67 Bowser 2573 WINDSHIELD $1.32 Bowser 2574 DUMMY FRAME $7.94 Bowser 2575 OBSERVATION END $5.29 Bowser 2576 BOLSTER $1.25 Bowser 2577 33" SHOLDERED WHEEL $1.99 Bowser 2578 DUMMY WHEEL FRAME $4.63 Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:24 AM, RalphB wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: >> > , >> ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects >> the passenger and the observation. > ------------------------------ > No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I > bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I > have two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body > is missing a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct > another car end since, like the rest of the train, it's rather > simple construction. > > Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. > He doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train > at a show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together > so I can see what the differences are. > > Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16007	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Mantua Uncouplers

All, As with the recent blizzard here in Illinois, my shop's door is still blocked by a six foot drift of snow on the sidewalk. So I have the day off today from my computer shop. I stopped by the hardware store, which carries K&S Engineering metals (Limited selection, though), and bought a few 1/2" wide brass strips. I had an idea on how to make Mantua uncoupling ramps. I cut the strips into sections 2-1/2" long, and drilled holes at either end using a 3/32" drill. Then I gave the brass strip a gentle arch upward. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, as it is simple and works. I know I will get a lot of grief about this, but keep in mind that roadbed track systems are as old as the hobby - Scale-Craft and Lionel had 'em in OO scale in the 1930s! Gilbert did in the prewar era, too, I believe, in HO scale. Anyway, a benefit of using the Bachmann track, is that those holes I drilled either end of the strip, I could run a #0 wood screw through the hole, and into the plastic roadbed, making it a permanent uncoupling ramp. I used screws smaller than the ramp so that it could have a little wiggle room for flexing if need be. I suppose for the more craftsmen type who hand ballast their own track, one could run long screws between the ties, through roadbed, and into the wooden tabletop. I just tried the first one completed, and it works like a charm! All I had to do was adjust the upward curve a little, which is another benefit to having some leeway in the mount holes. Will be a fun day installing these! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16008	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

----- Original Message ----- From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:24 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Aerotrain > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: >> > , >> ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the >> passenger and the observation. > ------------------------------ > No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I > bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I have > two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body is missing > a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct another car end > since, like the rest of the train, it's rather simple construction. > > Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. He > doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train at a > show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together so I can > see what the differences are. > > Ralph B You have two observation bodies and only one end. The coaches were molded with a one piece body that included both ends. You can still get additional bodies from the original Varney dies from Bowser. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16009	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers

almost  exactly how Mantua did it. They used phosphor bronze,  with fiber end  bases.  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Uncouplers   All, As with the recent blizzard here in Illinois, my shop's door is still blocked by a six foot drift of snow on the sidewalk. So I have the day off today from my computer shop. I stopped by the hardware store, which carries K&S Engineering metals (Limited selection, though), and bought a few 1/2" wide brass strips. I had an idea on how to make Mantua uncoupling ramps. I cut the strips into sections 2-1/2" long, and drilled holes at either end using a 3/32" drill. Then I gave the brass strip a gentle arch upward. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, as it is simple and works. I know I will get a lot of grief about this, but keep in mind that roadbed track systems are as old as the hobby - Scale-Craft and Lionel had 'em in OO scale in the 1930s! Gilbert did in the prewar era, too, I believe, in HO scale. Anyway, a benefit of using the Bachmann track, is that those holes I drilled either end of the strip, I could run a #0 wood screw through the hole, and into the plastic roadbed, making it a permanent uncoupling ramp. I used screws smaller than the ramp so that it could have a little wiggle room for flexing if need be. I suppose for the more craftsmen type who hand ballast their own track, one could run long screws between the ties, through roadbed, and into the wooden tabletop. I just tried the first one completed, and it works like a charm! All I had to do was adjust the upward curve a little, which is another benefit to having some leeway in the mount holes. Will be a fun day installing these! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16010	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers

I also have seen Mantua uncouplers with die cast bases too. Unusable to me, they are, as at least with the fiber bases, there was a square hole in the middle which one could run a small #2 screw through to secure them to the track. The idea was that they were "portable" though. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Uncouplers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 6:40 PM   almost  exactly how Mantua did it. They used phosphor bronze,  with fiber end  bases.  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Uncouplers   All, As with the recent blizzard here in Illinois, my shop's door is still blocked by a six foot drift of snow on the sidewalk. So I have the day off today from my computer shop. I stopped by the hardware store, which carries K&S Engineering metals (Limited selection, though), and bought a few 1/2" wide brass strips. I had an idea on how to make Mantua uncoupling ramps. I cut the strips into sections 2-1/2" long, and drilled holes at either end using a 3/32" drill. Then I gave the brass strip a gentle arch upward. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, as it is simple and works. I know I will get a lot of grief about this, but keep in mind that roadbed track systems are as old as the hobby - Scale-Craft and Lionel had 'em in OO scale in the 1930s! Gilbert did in the prewar era, too, I believe, in HO scale. Anyway, a benefit of using the Bachmann track, is that those holes I drilled either end of the strip, I could run a #0 wood screw through the hole, and into the plastic roadbed, making it a permanent uncoupling ramp. I used screws smaller than the ramp so that it could have a little wiggle room for flexing if need be. I suppose for the more craftsmen type who hand ballast their own track, one could run long screws between the ties, through roadbed, and into the wooden tabletop. I just tried the first one completed, and it works like a charm! All I had to do was adjust the upward curve a little, which is another benefit to having some leeway in the mount holes. Will be a fun day installing these! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16011	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/4/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

At least he says they're bubble wrapped this time. What a mess

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16012	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

Attachments : JC-cardside.jpg The kit came yesterday, (I wasn't expecting it, won and paid Tuesday night, mailed on Wednesday when there was the "blizzard of the decade" between the sender in Iowa and here, but came Friday) Denny was right about the level of detail on the sides, I showed them to a couple people at work, they couldn't believe it was card. Photo attached. Someone commented on the length. It's marked as a " 68 foot", but just setting the floor and the two ends down on a ruler it's coming out at 72' without the end doors. Regardless, it looks to mate very well with the HO-12 NYC metal side coach. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Bayer II" <bayerw2@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine Congrats! I look forward to seeing your photos. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>wrote: > > > I'll find out all about it in a few days. :-) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@... <danspach%40macnexus.org>> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine > > Good! Well worth the effort. > > The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense > with > a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very > sharp > > and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding > embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring > the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit > cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's > succeeding quite-crude cast lead alloy ends. > > I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we > speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even > contemporary models of far greater pretence. > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16013	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Looking to buy

Attachments : IMG_6739_1.JPG               I am looking to buy an HO item that was put out by Sampson. There were two versions produced. One in 1949 and one in 1950 that were basically the same engines. Supposedly a copy of a 1940 era rail car of the NYS&W RR.  This HO engine was sold as "The Silver Bullet " and was an aluminum parts kit. To me it looks like an old bath tub upside down and has somewhat the look of the Zephyr  I am only looking for the HO model made by Sampson. ( Sorry for the poor picture as it was taken from a glossy photo.         If you have one you would sell contact me off site at jimhach@... with price and condition.                                                                     Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16014	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Train show stuff

Just got back from a trains show, picked up 20 freight cars and an engine. Couple of Athearn metal auto boxcars, couple of Silver Streak boxcars, some wrapped tankers not yet fully identified, two Walthers (?) express reefers, 2 Walthers (?) cast stock cars (heavy buggers), some Megow and a couple of Mantua metal cars, a box and a reefer. One wagon-top box, Erie, funny brown color, thought it was Megow (paper sides), but looks from the HOSeeker site that the Megow unit is B&O, so still looking. And, a Rivarossi 2-truck Heisler, missing roof-mounted headlight, couple of small bits....... Whole box, $60. Tomorrow he's bringing in a bag of Mantua couplers for my buddy to pick up he doesn't want. Cleaned and lubed the Heisler, runs right down the track. Noisy motors, they have, but all the monkey motion works fine. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16015	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff

I got the paper-sided Erie wagon top in a good light and it appears it's a repaint/reletter from Norfolk and Western. I have to go from side to side to get enough discernible letters to see, but that's what it looks like. NEXT QUESTION: Silver Streak S208, Chicago Outer Belt EJ&E green boxcar. What is the color green used? The roof and ends need repainting (actually, more paint) and the doors never were painted. Not sure what that color actually is...maybe one of you astute gentlemen knows. Thanks. Dave > > Just got back from a trains show, picked up 20 freight cars and an engine. > Couple of Athearn metal auto boxcars, couple of Silver Streak boxcars, some wrapped tankers not yet fully identified, two Walthers (?) express reefers, 2 Walthers (?) cast stock cars (heavy buggers), some Megow and a couple of Mantua metal cars, a box and a reefer. > > One wagon-top box, Erie, funny brown color, thought it was Megow (paper sides), but looks from the HOSeeker site that the Megow unit is B&O, so still looking. > > And, a Rivarossi 2-truck Heisler, missing roof-mounted headlight, couple of small bits....... > > Whole box, $60. > > Tomorrow he's bringing in a bag of Mantua couplers for my buddy to pick up he doesn't want. > > Cleaned and lubed the Heisler, runs right down the track. > Noisy motors, they have, but all the monkey motion works fine. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16016	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff

Did a little experimenting, looks like Vermont Green from Floquil is pretty close. I thought at first it wasn't, as I touched up a spot on the roof, then realised the roof is darker than the factory sides. > > Silver Streak S208, Chicago Outer Belt EJ&E green boxcar. > What is the color green used? > The roof and ends need repainting (actually, more paint) and the doors never were painted. > Not sure what that color actually is...maybe one of you astute gentlemen knows. > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > Just got back from a trains show, picked up 20 freight cars and an engine. > > Couple of Athearn metal auto boxcars, couple of Silver Streak boxcars, some wrapped tankers not yet fully identified, two Walthers (?) express reefers, 2 Walthers (?) cast stock cars (heavy buggers), some Megow and a couple of Mantua metal cars, a box and a reefer. > > > > One wagon-top box, Erie, funny brown color, thought it was Megow (paper sides), but looks from the HOSeeker site that the Megow unit is B&O, so still looking. > > > > And, a Rivarossi 2-truck Heisler, missing roof-mounted headlight, couple of small bits....... > > > > Whole box, $60. > > > > Tomorrow he's bringing in a bag of Mantua couplers for my buddy to pick up he doesn't want. > > > > Cleaned and lubed the Heisler, runs right down the track. > > Noisy motors, they have, but all the monkey motion works fine. > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16017	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: plastic truck question

One of the cars I picked up has a truck design I have never seen. Plastic, fixed, i.e. no functional springs: Modeled, each side, is one leaf and one coil. What is it?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16018	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: plastic truck question

I believe it is called a "Coil eliptical". I have seen O Scale 2-rail Walthers trucks of such. I take it that the truck is similar to the one in the boxcar on this page: http://www.hansmanns.org/relics_of_rails/bradford_boxcars.htm Except that boxcar has two coil springs visible - one on each side of the leaf (elliptical) spring. I think they were used in the late prewar era into the early postwar era on heavier cars. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 2/5/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] plastic truck question To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 11:29 PM   One of the cars I picked up has a truck design I have never seen. Plastic, fixed, i.e. no functional springs: Modeled, each side, is one leaf and one coil. What is it?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16019	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy

Jim Is this the prototype of what you are looking for? It was built was ACF, and they called it a motorailer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYSW1002.jpg Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16020	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy

Hi Jim,       Yes the picture you sent is very close to the look of the item I am trying to find. It was a copy of a NYSW Railcar but had less side windows as my picture showed. I ONLY want the item that was produced by Sampson from 1949-1950. I know for a fact they were produced but have never seen one on ebay ( unless I happened to miss it ) and would like this particular model for my vintage collection.                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Waterman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Looking to buy   Jim Is this the prototype of what you are looking for? It was built was ACF, and they called it a motorailer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYSW1002.jpg Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16021	From: Richard White	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim- In September 1949 my father took me to the Hobby Show at the Bayfront Auditorium in Miami, Florida. I was very interested in the small operating HO gauge layout, which featured that Sampson rail car, pulling at least one trailer. I've always remembered its distinctive look. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:25:43 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Looking to buy [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]               I am looking to buy an HO item that was put out by Sampson. There were two versions produced. One in 1949 and one in 1950 that were basically the same engines. Supposedly a copy of a 1940 era rail car of the NYS&W RR.  This HO engine was sold as "The Silver Bullet " and was an aluminum parts kit. To me it looks like an old bath tub upside down and has somewhat the look of the Zephyr  I am only looking for the HO model made by Sampson. ( Sorry for the poor picture as it was taken from a glossy photo.         If you have one you would sell contact me off site at jimhach@... with price and condition.                                                                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16022	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Change of pace

Attachments : IMG_6749_3.JPG IMG_6748_2.JPG IMG_6746_1.JPG                While I wait to find an original or decent Baker valve gear replacement for my 1938 Conover 2-10-2 project, change and repaint the frame on my Mantua / American Flyer 4-4-0 FY&P that has a broken pilot and strip old paint off the Hobbies Inc Aluminum PA ALCO body I got I decided to change pace a little bit.        My wife bought me a new J L Innovative craftsman type building for my new layout in progress so I decided to change gears a little and build the kit. Pictures will show a small manufacturing plant that makes tools like picks and shovels. I happen to like the "odd" shapes" of the J L Innovative kits and they suit my needs as front line down by the track pieces. The last picture will show 3 of their kits in a row . ( I haven't gotten around to "toning down" the buildings since my vintage HO collection takes precedence. but will be easier with suggestions from Don Dellman ).         Maybe if I live to 103 I might get the layout finished.                                                      Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16023	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy

Richard,        Wish I could have seen one run to see what they were like. Don't have plans for one so I don't know how they were powered. I do know Sampson produced an F unit drive ( I have pictures ) to be used in Varney metal F-3 units that were supposed to be a 50 % improvement. I've only ever seen pictures of the rail car some one had. A friend in CA saw one at a show and called me to see if I wanted it. By the time I told him to get it it was gone. While not seen on eBay I can't believe it would fall in the category of extremely rare although the Sampson passenger cars are not an every day item either.                                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:12 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Looking to buy   Hi Jim- In September 1949 my father took me to the Hobby Show at the Bayfront Auditorium in Miami, Florida. I was very interested in the small operating HO gauge layout, which featured that Sampson rail car, pulling at least one trailer. I've always remembered its distinctive look. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:25:43 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Looking to buy [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]               I am looking to buy an HO item that was put out by Sampson. There were two versions produced. One in 1949 and one in 1950 that were basically the same engines. Supposedly a copy of a 1940 era rail car of the NYS&W RR.  This HO engine was sold as "The Silver Bullet " and was an aluminum parts kit. To me it looks like an old bath tub upside down and has somewhat the look of the Zephyr  I am only looking for the HO model made by Sampson. ( Sorry for the poor picture as it was taken from a glossy photo.         If you have one you would sell contact me off site at jimhach@... with price and condition.                                                                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16024	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Change of pace [3 Attachments]

Looking good, Jim...  Keep it up! Don Staton in Va. ==================================================== On 2/8/2011 1:52 PM, jim heckard wrote:                  While I wait to find an original or decent Baker valve gear replacement for my 1938 Conover 2-10-2 project, change and repaint the frame on my Mantua / American Flyer 4-4-0 FY&P that has a broken pilot and strip old paint off the Hobbies Inc Aluminum PA ALCO body I got I decided to change pace a little bit.        My wife bought me a new J L Innovative craftsman type building for my new layout in progress so I decided to change gears a little and build the kit. Pictures will show a small manufacturing plant that makes tools like picks and shovels. I happen to like the "odd" shapes" of the J L Innovative kits and they suit my needs as front line down by the track pieces. The last picture will show 3 of their kits in a row . ( I haven't gotten around to "toning down" the buildings since my vintage HO collection takes precedence. but will be easier with suggestions from Don Dellman ).         Maybe if I live to 103 I might get the layout finished.                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16025	From: Westfield Weavers	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: train donations

Dear Groups   Please forgive the multiple postings   This post is to ask for donations of some basic HO train equipment for a small layout at a non-profit Rehab unit connected to a Living facility. I have agreed to volunteer to help residents put together a small mini layout. There are a few people who were train enthusiasts in their healthier years and now are in wheel chairs with serious health problems.   Here is my wish list   1 steam engine and 1 diesel, both small,reliable and tough—think child proof rolling stock—freight or passenger cars for a small train with working couplers and trucks—any era, any road name oval or circle of EZ track with rerailer/terminal track small used power pack inexpensive plastic structures   Anything you send would be greatly appreciated and will contribute to brighten someone's day—more than you may think. Thank You for your help and please forgive this intrusion Contact me offline with any questions. Colin Claxon 6419 Glen Rd Coopersburg, Pa 18036 westfieldweavers@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16026	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Silver Streak reefers

I have one I believe to be Silver Streak, based upon the frame and the thick wood sides. It is, I think, an S-414. However, the photos on HOSeeker show on the right side, angled, "Route of the Zephyrs", whilst this one has a rectangular "Burlington Route" placcard. Did they have both, or is this a "bash" of several manufacturers? Who else made the 1/8" thick milled pre-painted sides? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16027	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak reefers >I have one I believe to be Silver Streak, based upon the frame and the >thick wood sides. > It is, I think, an S-414. > However, the photos on HOSeeker show on the right side, angled, "Route of > the Zephyrs", whilst this one has a rectangular "Burlington Route" > placcard. > > Did they have both, or is this a "bash" of several manufacturers? > Who else made the 1/8" thick milled pre-painted sides? > > Thanks. > > Dave FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16028	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

Here's the full data: Left side, first line: Burlington Second line, Refrigerator Express Under that, BREX, under that 75423 Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is Ventilator Refrigerator. No C&S markings I can find. Thanks. Dave > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16029	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

Looks kinda like this: http://hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksaleslist1960pg2.jpg except the ""Way of the Zephyrs" is not there, and the herald is more centered on the RH side, I think (car's in the shop) the reporting marks are on the right, and there is no black line on the bottom left. Yellow, not orange. Dave > > Here's the full data: > > Left side, first line: Burlington > Second line, Refrigerator Express > Under that, BREX, under that 75423 > Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is Ventilator Refrigerator. > > No C&S markings I can find. > > Thanks. > Dave > > > > > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with > > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16030	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

VERY similar to this one (right side, halfway down), except A) not a paper side, and B) number is different: http://hoseeker.net/redball/redballcatalog03pg07.jpg > > Looks kinda like this: > http://hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksaleslist1960pg2.jpg > > except the ""Way of the Zephyrs" is not there, and the herald is more centered on the RH side, I think (car's in the shop) the reporting marks are on the right, and there is no black line on the bottom left. > > Yellow, not orange. > > Dave > > > > > Here's the full data: > > > > Left side, first line: Burlington > > Second line, Refrigerator Express > > Under that, BREX, under that 75423 > > Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is Ventilator Refrigerator. > > > > No C&S markings I can find. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with > > > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16031	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

I have an old paper side Mantua that again, is like that but different road number. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak reefers > > > VERY similar to this one (right side, halfway down), except A) not a paper > side, and B) number is different: > > http://hoseeker.net/redball/redballcatalog03pg07.jpg > > > >> >> Looks kinda like this: >> http://hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksaleslist1960pg2.jpg >> >> except the ""Way of the Zephyrs" is not there, and the herald is more >> centered on the RH side, I think (car's in the shop) the reporting marks >> are on the right, and there is no black line on the bottom left. >> >> Yellow, not orange. >> >> Dave >> >> > >> > Here's the full data: >> > >> > Left side, first line: Burlington >> > Second line, Refrigerator Express >> > Under that, BREX, under that 75423 >> > Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is >> > Ventilator Refrigerator. >> > >> > No C&S markings I can find. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Dave >> > >> > >> > > >> > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard >> > > but with >> > > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, >> > > >> > > Don >> > > >> > > Don Dellmann >> > > don.dellmann@ >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> > > Owner >> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16032	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.

If i recall correctly, I believe that Sampson advertised two different versions of this kit with two different nose shapes. On a casual basis, I too have been looking -unsuccesfully- for one of these,  ever since first seeing (and coveting) an advertising photo of one in the old Burgess Hobby Shop on Wabash Avenue in Chicago's Loop in about 1950 or so.   However, over the years since, I have not come across even one, or pieces of one.  I do not know the answer, but in part I suspect that Sampson did not produce many, and those that they did produce probably had cast noses that suffered with very early zincpest...like so many of the other Sampson cast parts.  Did they actually produce the two different versions? I have a bag (bag!) full of Sampson cast ends, etc., some of them semi-intact because I epoxied pieces together, but most others (all?) just held together purely by gravity, and atoms holding hands. Denny       Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16033	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.

Dennis,       The only printed information I have about the Sampson Rail Cars comes from Lena Locomotive Lexicon Volume II  Page 61.       There are two pictures shown which I sent previously( both Sampson Company Photos ). The top one states  "1949 version of a rail car by Samson" showing the left side of the car.      Underneath the second picture it states "  1950 version of the rail car by Sampson " but showing the right side of the car.       A final statement " Rail Car ( 1940 era NAYS&WE RR ) Sampson   1949,1950 ( sold as the Silver Bullet, ALUMINUM PARTS kit )        From this little information I gather there were two versions , one in 1949 and one in 1950. Because of the angle of the pictures and from different sides I can only guess that there is a difference in the front window pattern of the nose of each version. How factual this info is remains to be seen,       As far as zinc pest in cast parts this info says ALUMINUM PARTS Kits for the rail car . I do know the passenger car bodies and ends had problems. The extruded passenger car bodies had magnesium in them and many corroded real bad where it is just about impossible to clean the and the ends for the cars disintegrated , cracked and chunks fell out. I gave up trying to fix them and had new ones cast that wouldn't have zinc pest.       A little side note is that Sampson bought out a sheet brass diesel engine by Barr Nixon H-10-44 and sold it under the Sampson name and also produced a drive unit the was used under Varney cast metal F-3 bodies that was to be a superior item.                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: dennyanspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.   If i recall correctly, I believe that Sampson advertised two different versions of this kit with two different nose shapes. On a casual basis, I too have been looking -unsuccesfully- for one of these,  ever since first seeing (and coveting) an advertising photo of one in the old Burgess Hobby Shop on Wabash Avenue in Chicago's Loop in about 1950 or so.   However, over the years since, I have not come across even one, or pieces of one.  I do not know the answer, but in part I suspect that Sampson did not produce many, and those that they did produce probably had cast noses that suffered with very early zincpest...like so many of the other Sampson cast parts.  Did they actually produce the two different versions? I have a bag (bag!) full of Sampson cast ends, etc., some of them semi-intact because I epoxied pieces together, but most others (all?) just held together purely by gravity, and atoms holding hands. Denny       Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16034	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Most "fun" so far

Mantua metal boxcar. This one was mangled pretty badly, but I like the deep maroon of the NYC sides, so figured I'd try to fix it. The floor was rough....sorted that. Door catches at the bottom, well, sorted that. Roof pieces that locked the sides in, one gone, one loose, so I set the sides properly and hot-glued the whiz outta them, solid. Trying to get the doors to stay in has been a project. Had to re-sort the floor, re-trim the bottom cardboard overlay at the bottom, the side ladders were bent under the body, holding the floor away from the body at cross angles, got it done and one door would still pop occasionally. Looked at the fit, and added two strips of thin black styrene under the center frame outriggers to hold the floor tightly against the bottom guides, and that did it. Another one done! Waiting on the seller to mail me the Mantua couplers he took off all the cars before he sold them, and we may have 40 Mantua equipped pieces ready to roll. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16035	From: Tom Hare	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!

I have found lots of hack jobs with people repairing their own trains but this is one of the best. They cut strips out of a budweiser can and wired it to an Athearn SW7 truck pick-ups and motor. Believe it or not he did two of them the same way, one ran and one did not. Needless to say I removed them and wired them as they should have been. I will upload a picture call beer can repairs if you want to see it. Thought you would find this humerous. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16036	From: Nelson	Date: 2/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!

Maybe it seemed like a good idea after a few beers. I've seen some Kadee coupler mounting jobs that would have mad Rube Golberg proud, and I bought a junker engine a few years ago that had the pilot filled in with cardboard. It was painted, of course. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hare" <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: > > I have found lots of hack jobs with people repairing their own trains but this is one of the best. They cut strips out of a budweiser can and wired it to an Athearn SW7 truck pick-ups and motor. Believe it or not he did two of them the same way, one ran and one did not. Needless to say I removed them and wired them as they should have been. I will upload a picture call beer can repairs if you want to see it. Thought you would find this humerous. Tom >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16037	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16038	From: Richard White	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16039	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi Richard, You can always pick one up on evilBay.  I think they are going at decent prices.  I don't see one out there now, but keep looking, I am sure there will be one out there. I did not read the review until after I started consruction, but didn't fall prey to the problem.  I centered the door to start with and cut out the small notches on the bottom of the siding per the instructions.  After that was done, I cut the sides to length, with one or two board widths too long for later adjustment.  I also varied from the instructions a bit and completed the floor and end assembly before doing the sides.  I installed the sides using the roof as a guide, but have not glued on the roof yet.  As the review stated, do a few other Ambroid models before tackling this one.  The instructions are not that great (not too bad either) and the biggest problem is there are no full size drawings.  I used a copier to enlarge the roof so I could get the spacings proper.  I didn't feel like extrapolating all of the dimensions with computations. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:46:00 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16040	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Plastic Varney question

I have several Varney plastic 2-bay hoppers. Trying to sort in my mind something with underframes. When did Varney go from a long, narrow cast frame to a blob-shaped unit that extended sideways out between the chutes? I have both styles. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16041	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: It's a morgue around here.....

Anyway, 'nother question. The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. Who made them? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16042	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....

Mantua made 'em. You are correct, Mantua made the standard freight loops, and the wider passenger loops, with various exact ways of mounting them to the car floor (some used a longer shank, some had a narrow shank for more pivot room, and pockets varied as well. Are the handiest thing on longer coaches and 22" radius curves! -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 2/11/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] It's a morgue around here..... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:37 PM   Anyway, 'nother question. The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. Who made them? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16043	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....

All these decades, never seen them. Looks like they'd do the job. Dave > Mantua made 'em. You are correct, Mantua made the standard freight loops, and the wider passenger loops, with various exact ways of mounting them to the car floor (some used a longer shank, some had a narrow shank for more pivot room, and pockets varied as well. > > Are the handiest thing on longer coaches and 22" radius curves! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] It's a morgue around here..... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, 'nother question. > > The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. > > The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. > > Who made them? > > > > Thanks. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16044	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: JC cardside car

Attachments : MNR 5067.jpg Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" moment. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16045	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car [1 Attachment]

Wow, Don, that is one great looking car! but do I see a hair sticking on one window? ;-) Just kidding! (about the hair)   Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] JC cardside car [1 Attachment]   Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" moment. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16046	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: A Very Old Vintage Club

While this is not HO, I found it very interesting.  Last evening, our club visited the Milwaukee Union Terminal, 0-scale model railroad club.  It is the oldest model railroad club still in it's original location. Formed in 1934, with the help of Phil Walthers, the club is in an old commuter railroad station that is built into the lower level of a railroad underpass, given to them on a 99 year lease by The Milwaukee Road, who was happy to help the club.  The station was abandoned in 1930.  The layout was built in 1936 as outside third rail, but was changed to two rail in the 1950's.   It was nice to see locomotive and cars built in the 1930's still running, with their original motors.  Locomotives and car kits from Walthers, such as a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha, which was released the same year as the full sized Hiawatha!  And with controls that are built from WW2 surplus parts.  A very interesting evening, indeed.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16047	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car

There are one or two minor screwups but I'll never tell. :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "My-Yahoo-Groups" <yahoo-groups@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] JC cardside car Wow, Don, that is one great looking car! but do I see a hair sticking on one window? ;-) Just kidding! (about the hair) Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] JC cardside car [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" moment. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16048	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club

----- Original Message ----- From: <corlissbs@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] A Very Old Vintage Club > While this is not HO, I found it very interesting. Last evening, our > club > visited the Milwaukee Union Terminal, 0-scale model railroad club. It is > the oldest model railroad club still in it's original location. Formed in > 1934, with the help of Phil Walthers, the club is in an old commuter > railroad > station that is built into the lower level of a railroad underpass, given > to them on a 99 year lease by The Milwaukee Road, who was happy to help > the > club. The station was abandoned in 1930. The layout was built in 1936 > as outside third rail, but was changed to two rail in the 1950's. > > It was nice to see locomotive and cars built in the 1930's still running, > with their original motors. Locomotives and car kits from Walthers, such > as a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha, which was released the same year as the full > sized Hiawatha! And with controls that are built from WW2 surplus parts. > A > very interesting evening, indeed. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI While I know some of the guys, and I've known about the club for probably 50 years, I've never actually visited. I've got to get down there one day. It was sad a year ago when Indianhead went under (the HO club behind Walthers), that club was around since the late 40's, and for a time in the 70's I was not only a member but club President! (At the time they moved from 16th. St. down to Kinnikinnic). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16049	From: al45390	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car

Great job! It looks good. And I didn't know about JC card side cars either. Regards, Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my > JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back > from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" > moment. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16050	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club

Yes, I remember our club visiting Indian Head Lines.  It to was a great layout.   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16051	From: John H	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club

Hopefully that will be some time in the distant future but one never knows. To anyone who has never viewed this museum of model railroad history I recommend that you get there. It was never intended to be a museum but that is what it has become. This is not saying that the members do not upgrade but even just the amount of work required to keep it together, operating and looking decent is a big order. This is a truly interesting place to visit. The members are friendly and, like most model rails, only too happy to show anyone around. They are normally open on the third Friday evenings and last Sunday afternoon of each month. Their work night is on Monday and visitors are normally welcome then too but the last Monday may be a meeting night. Also, during the colder months they tend to stay in the office/meeting room/work room to save on heating costs. The two rooms that contain the layout are pretty large and take some major BTU's keep warm. BTW, there is an old TMER&L fare box hanging on the wall and works great for accepting donations. BTW Don, I was president of this club for a period. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <corlissbs@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:31 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] A Very Old Vintage Club > > > > While this is not HO, I found it very interesting. Last evening, our > > club > > visited the Milwaukee Union Terminal, 0-scale model railroad club. It is > > the oldest model railroad club still in it's original location. Formed in > > 1934, with the help of Phil Walthers, the club is in an old commuter > > railroad > > station that is built into the lower level of a railroad underpass, given > > to them on a 99 year lease by The Milwaukee Road, who was happy to help > > the > > club. The station was abandoned in 1930. The layout was built in 1936 > > as outside third rail, but was changed to two rail in the 1950's. > > > > It was nice to see locomotive and cars built in the 1930's still running, > > with their original motors. Locomotives and car kits from Walthers, such > > as a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha, which was released the same year as the full > > sized Hiawatha! And with controls that are built from WW2 surplus parts. > > A > > very interesting evening, indeed. > > > > Brad Smith > > Franklin, WI > > While I know some of the guys, and I've known about the club for probably 50 > years, I've never actually visited. I've got to get down there one day. > > It was sad a year ago when Indianhead went under (the HO club behind > Walthers), that club was around since the late 40's, and for a time in the > 70's I was not only a member but club President! (At the time they moved > from 16th. St. down to Kinnikinnic). > > Don > > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16052	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

Dave, The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16053	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

Ah, HA! Thanks! I do believe I like the long narrow frames a whole lot better than the blobs. Dave > Dave, > > The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. > > Ray F. W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16054	From: Glenn	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....

sounds like Mantua passenger car couplers. gj -----Original Message----- From: trainsnwrcs Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] It's a morgue around here..... Anyway, 'nother question. The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. Who made them? Thanks. Dave ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16055	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that '52 must have been a big year for Mantua.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16056	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

Following up on my question I double checked the literature on the slick paper (including the small pamphlet that they included as a catalog) and there was no mention of a special series, but it seems unusual to package the kits so expensively only 7 years after WWII when some were still shipping stuff in plain cardboard.  They musta been on a roll!   In a message dated 2/13/2011 2:46:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that '52 must have been a big year for Mantua.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16057	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

Hello Art, As far as I know, that was standard packaging for their Pacific & Mikado locomotive kits of that time. It is tough to say since I have no pictures to look at. Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 3:13:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit   Following up on my question I double checked the literature on the slick paper (including the small pamphlet that they included as a catalog) and there was no mention of a special series, but it seems unusual to package the kits so expensively only 7 years after WWII when some were still shipping stuff in plain cardboard.  They musta been on a roll!   In a message dated 2/13/2011 2:46:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that '52 must have been a big year for Mantua.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16058	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

The blobs tend to suffer from the zimax rot and expand, resulting in a flaring of the bottom of the hopper car, at the center. Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 6:51:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Plastic Varney question   Ah, HA! Thanks! I do believe I like the long narrow frames a whole lot better than the blobs. Dave > Dave, > > The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. > > Ray F. W.</HTML> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16059	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

Haven't had them push out the sides, but expand, yes, and pushed down, and broken. > The blobs tend to suffer from the zimax rot and expand, resulting in a flaring > of the bottom of the hopper car, at the center. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 6:51:26 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Plastic Varney question > > > Ah, HA! > Thanks! > I do believe I like the long narrow frames a whole lot better than the blobs. > > Dave > > > Dave, > > > > The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. > > > > Ray F. W.</HTML> > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16060	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

I have one of those original boxes for a Mikado. > Hello Art, > As far as I know, that was standard packaging for their Pacific & Mikado > locomotive kits of that time. It is tough to say since I have no pictures to > look at. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 3:13:11 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit > > > Following up on my question I double checked the literature on the slick > paper (including the small pamphlet that they included as a catalog) and there > was no mention of a special series, but it seems unusual to package the kits so > expensively only 7 years after WWII when some were still shipping stuff in > plain cardboard. They musta been on a roll! > > In a message dated 2/13/2011 2:46:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... > writes: > > > > >Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no > >degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back > >to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for > >seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with > >palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua > >come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally > >beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying > >to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that > >'52 must have been a big year for Mantua. > > > >Art W >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16061	From: leetrains	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: varney book

Thought of interest to the group. Lee <http://cgi.ebay.com/Model-Locomotives-Rolling-Stock-PB-1948-Gordon-Varney-/270704264689?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f073b45f1> ebay item# 270704264689 Model Locomotives & Rolling Stock PB 1948 Gordon Varney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16062	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

There is one on eBay right now, going for $9.95 at the moment.  The auction end on Feb. 20. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ambroid-Canadian-Pacific-8-hatch-reefer-K14-kit-NIB-/400195220747?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d2d7e750b Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:46:00 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16063	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: varney book

----- Original Message ----- From: "leetrains" <leetrains@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: [vintageHO] varney book > Thought of interest to the group. Lee > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/Model-Locomotives-Rolling-Stock-PB-1948-Gordon-Varney-/270704264689?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f073b45f1> > > ebay item# > 270704264689 > > > Model Locomotives & Rolling Stock PB 1948 Gordon Varney It would be but I already have a copy :-) Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16064	From: Robert	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2

I have an old Atheran 4-6-2 that has wires to connect to the tender. I need a diagram that shows how the wiring is to connect Could not find one at Hoseekers Also need the pilot Can any one help? Thanks, Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16065	From: Richard White	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Thanks, Vic! I'll keep my eye on this. It's up to $11.50 now. Regards- Richard White, Moraga, CA   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 15:09:22 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   There is one on eBay right now, going for $9.95 at the moment.  The auction end on Feb. 20. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ambroid-Canadian-Pacific-8-hatch-reefer-K14-kit-NIB-/400195220747?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d2d7e750b Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:46:00 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16066	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16067	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Two wires from the motor slip into a snap in connection, one on each side of the front of the tender.  The tender wheels must be cleaned as the tender is the source of power pick up.  Clean the brass connections before you slip them into place.  If you have power continuity problems, remove the tender body...  Loosen and remove the brass clips that the locomotive wires snap into...  Clean the metal on the tender base and the brass clips where the clips are screwed into place...  Remove the trucks and clean the bearing areas on the base and the trucks.  What I mean by clean is to remove all dull corrosion to a shiny finish. Pilots are hard to come by.  I hope someone in the group has one for you. Happy railroading...  Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/14/2011 6:41 PM, Robert wrote:   I have an old Atheran 4-6-2 that has wires to connect to the tender. I need a diagram that shows how the wiring is to connect Could not find one at Hoseekers Also need the pilot Can any one help? Thanks, Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16068	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I don't have one, but the following may help http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 It's not much, but does show the car side. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:24:19 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16069	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. No wonder the box is open. > > I don't have one, but the following may help > http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 > It's not much, but does show the car side. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: toytrain13@... > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:24:19 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16070	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > > Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. No wonder the box is open. >> >> I don't have one, but the following may help >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >> It's not much, but does show the car side. Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. -- Rick Jones "You're the disease. I'm the cure." -Cobra, "Cobra"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16071	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Funny, every one I have ever had has included a yellow box with trucks, box says "Silver Streak", and couplers and coupler boxes. Not going to argue the point, other than to say, so far, every one. NOT Walthers or Ye Olde Huff n Puff ownership. > Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I > have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the > early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid > I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "You're the disease. I'm the cure." > -Cobra, "Cobra" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16072	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. But: This bugger is heavy. It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. Casting quality is poor. Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. Any ideas, or do we need a photo? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16073	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Ca. 1970 they still were included. I will try at work today to see if I can blow up the small picture of the finished car I have in Walthers' catalog from that year and scan it, I'll post it tionight if it works out halfway decent. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: >> >> Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. >> No wonder the box is open. >>> >>> I don't have one, but the following may help >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >>> It's not much, but does show the car side. > > Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I > have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the > early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid > I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "You're the disease. I'm the cure." > -Cobra, "Cobra" > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16074	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and > shot). > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some > .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. > > But: > > This bugger is heavy. > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are > 4 separate pieces or not. > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the > side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. > Casting quality is poor. > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids > out. > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. > > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they > don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be > Mantua. > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? > > Thanks. > Dave Moderator hat ON. I always repeat this, WHENEVER we have a "what is this?" type question, photos are ALWAYS helpful. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16075	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I have a SS PE caboose that I bought from eBay and it did not have trucks or couplers. I have purchased a number SS kits over the years at flea markets and estate sales and do not recall one having trucks and couplers. I'll look at my PE caboose to see if a picture of it would help. Wally Weart

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16076	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Thanks Don! -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:36:47 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   Ca. 1970 they still were included. I will try at work today to see if I can blow up the small picture of the finished car I have in Walthers' catalog from that year and scan it, I'll post it tionight if it works out halfway decent. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: >> >> Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. >> No wonder the box is open. >>> >>> I don't have one, but the following may help >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >>> It's not much, but does show the car side. > > Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I > have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the > early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid > I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "You're the disease. I'm the cure." > -Cobra, "Cobra" > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16077	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Thanks, Wally. I photo of your caboose would really help me.  Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dim01521@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:42:31 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   I have a SS PE caboose that I bought from eBay and it did not have trucks or couplers. I have purchased a number SS kits over the years at flea markets and estate sales and do not recall one having trucks and couplers. I'll look at my PE caboose to see if a picture of it would help. Wally Weart

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16078	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I agree the early Silver Streak all had trucks ( I used Kadees, so didn't care about the couplers), but I did notice that in the later years, before Ye Old Huff N Puff, the Silver Streak boxes did seem to drop the trucks.  I have a few without trucks.  I did notice that the Huff N Puff stuff is lower quality than the Silver Streak and a bit higher priced.  The lettering on a  Budweiser reefer I bought rubbed off before the car was even built.  Try to find the Budweiser lettering for the green car these days, it is practically impossible.  I repainted it yellow and will letter it Heinz 57. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: r.t.jones@... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:13:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > > Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. No wonder the box is open. >> >> I don't have one, but the following may help >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >> It's not much, but does show the car side. Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. -- Rick Jones "You're the disease. I'm the cure." -Cobra, "Cobra"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16079	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Hi Vic- I saw that on EBay. Actually, the prepainted sides have a 1/2 inch wide vertical strip marked "waste," as shown in the EBay photo. I guess this is supposed to be cut out. But then what?? Regards- Richard    To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:28:52 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   I don't have one, but the following may help http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 It's not much, but does show the car side. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:24:19 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16080	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I posted a picture of my SS PE caboose in my folder (Wally). The sides are the original color and the ends which can't be seen are orange as were the prototypes. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16081	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

I have some Walthers hoppers that  sound like your car, definetly do need extra weight.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: trainsnwrcs To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident   I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. But: This bugger is heavy. It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. Casting quality is poor. Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. Any ideas, or do we need a photo? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16082	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

I'm off to take photos. Since the car is semi-flat black, I am not expecting good shots. This car is almost as heavy as some light locomotives. I remember when I got it, I thought the stuff inside was lead.....dumped out the couplers, and bits, and realized it wasn't what was inside the car that was heavy.... > I have some Walthers hoppers that sound like your car, definetly do need extra weight. Roger Aultman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: trainsnwrcs > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident > > > > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. > > But: > > This bugger is heavy. > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. > Casting quality is poor. > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. > > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16083	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Varney pre war passenger set

Would like to show my latest addition not only for my vintage collection but a missing part of my Varney collection.  Go to 190499420231   Old Varney HO Wooden Passenger Cars 7 pcs.      This is a 7 car set of what was originally 8 cars. These are pre war made from 1939-1942. They have celluloid pre painted sides in blue and dark blue to look like Baltimore and Ohio.  ( the set is missing PA-6 Pullman 18 roommate 77' "Atlantis".) The frames are all wood.      The sides on the passenger cars look in very good shape ( most important ) but it's hard to be sure because of distortions in the picture. The roofs will have to be sanded and repainted gray, the bottoms need the weights taken of and repainted blue. I might need to find a couple of the old pre war Varney 4 axle trucks as some are missing wheels and the frames might have zinc pest but I have a few here and still can find them out on the open market. Will better be able to assess them when they arrive but still a great addition for my vintage collection especially Varney.                                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16084	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

Surprise....photos don't look too bad. Anyway, 5 shots up in my album (still haven't found out how you link a photo to a post), look in "Dave's old stuff", cast hopper pix. > I'm off to take photos. Since the car is semi-flat black, I am not expecting good shots. > This car is almost as heavy as some light locomotives. > I remember when I got it, I thought the stuff inside was lead.....dumped out the couplers, and bits, and realized it wasn't what was inside the car that was heavy.... > > > > I have some Walthers hoppers that sound like your car, definetly do need extra weight. Roger Aultman > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: trainsnwrcs > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident > > > > > > > > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. > > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). > > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. > > > > But: > > > > This bugger is heavy. > > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. > > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. > > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. > > Casting quality is poor. > > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. > > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. > > > > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. > > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16085	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question

In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16086	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question Cast Stock Car

Forgot to specify, there is no lower door guide, and no place for one to be "pinned" in....however, there is a rod to the right of the closed door, horizontal, below the bottom edge of the door proper, stops short of the door opening, with a ring and chain on it, one door of 4 has the chain attached to the bottom right corner of the door (4 doors on 2 cars). > In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. > Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. > Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. > Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. > I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. > > Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16087	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

My PE caboose kit has the standard caboose instruction sheet but also this additional note   To THE MODELER: The S-110 P. E. Caboose and the S-119 Caboose are similar in construction to the S-108. The S=108 instructions are used in these kits. The S-118 and 5-119 do not have Cupolas. On both the S-118 and S-119 the floor lengths are 4-13/32".                         Lengths of Side Assemblies, after waste has been removed, are: Side with Windows 2-29/32°', Door 5/8" and Plain Side 7/8°'. Net overall 4-13/32". . Marker Light Brackets are mounted on sides in 4 corners, 13/16” from bottom edge and 1/16” in from end. Window Awnings are cemented over windows and like Marker Light Brackets are painted either box car red or black. Marker Lights are painted black. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16088	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question

Dave,   If I am reading this correctly.. are you asking if the diecast stock cars are Walthers?  As far as I know, they are. I had a bunch of nice ones a while back and no one wanted them.. too heavy I guess. Went for about half of what I paid for them to a fine Mate down under...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 1:05:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Next question   In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16089	From: William Frisk	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Vic- I saw that on EBay. Actually, the prepainted sides have a 1/2 inch wide vertical strip marked "waste," as shown in the EBay photo. I guess this is supposed to be cut out. But then what?? Regards- Richard > > That positions the side door correctly, which goes in that spot. Bill Frisk

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16090	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Varney pre war passenger set

In the blue set, at least some 18 roomette "Atlantis" Pullmans were made without a name. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1138789815/pic/1477905514/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney pre war passenger set Would like to show my latest addition not only for my vintage collection but a missing part of my Varney collection. Go to 190499420231 Old Varney HO Wooden Passenger Cars 7 pcs. This is a 7 car set of what was originally 8 cars. These are pre war made from 1939-1942. They have celluloid pre painted sides in blue and dark blue to look like Baltimore and Ohio. ( the set is missing PA-6 Pullman 18 roommate 77' "Atlantis".) The frames are all wood. The sides on the passenger cars look in very good shape ( most important ) but it's hard to be sure because of distortions in the picture. The roofs will have to be sanded and repainted gray, the bottoms need the weights taken of and repainted blue. I might need to find a couple of the old pre war Varney 4 axle trucks as some are missing wheels and the frames might have zinc pest but I have a few here and still can find them out on the open market. Will better be able to assess them when they arrive but still a great addition for my vintage collection especially Varney. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16091	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

You're right, that doesn't look like a Red Ball even though they made that style car. (My Redball has a thinner centerbeam, and door detail cast into the hoppers, unless it's an earlier version.) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident > > Surprise....photos don't look too bad. > Anyway, 5 shots up in my album (still haven't found out how you link a > photo to a post), look in "Dave's old stuff", cast hopper pix. > > >> I'm off to take photos. Since the car is semi-flat black, I am not >> expecting good shots. >> This car is almost as heavy as some light locomotives. >> I remember when I got it, I thought the stuff inside was lead.....dumped >> out the couplers, and bits, and realized it wasn't what was inside the >> car that was heavy.... >> >> >> > I have some Walthers hoppers that sound like your car, definetly do >> > need extra weight. Roger Aultman >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: trainsnwrcs >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident >> > >> > >> > >> > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. >> > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and >> > shot). >> > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used >> > some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. >> > >> > But: >> > >> > This bugger is heavy. >> > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. >> > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends >> > are 4 separate pieces or not. >> > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of >> > the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. >> > Casting quality is poor. >> > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the >> > voids out. >> > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. >> > >> > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they >> > don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be >> > Mantua. >> > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Dave >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16092	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

The sides are thick...the "extensions" do not show on the inside...inside being smooth like a smooth side hopper. Got couplers mounted, trucks shimmed to match (flat frame area....no bolster riser for trucks). Dave > You're right, that doesn't look like a Red Ball even though they made that > style car. (My Redball has a thinner centerbeam, and door detail cast into > the hoppers, unless it's an earlier version.) > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16093	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Thanks, Tom. Now things are starting to make sense. I am missing the two side doors apparently! While I'm puzzling over that, I'll go over the "additional note" that you enclose. Thank you for your help! -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tebeeb@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:06:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   My PE caboose kit has the standard caboose instruction sheet but also this additional note   To THE MODELER: The S-110 P. E. Caboose and the S-119 Caboose are similar in construction to the S-108. The S=108 instructions are used in these kits. The S-118 and 5-119 do not have Cupolas. On both the S-118 and S-119 the floor lengths are 4-13/32".                         Lengths of Side Assemblies, after waste has been removed, are: Side with Windows 2-29/32°', Door 5/8" and Plain Side 7/8°'. Net overall 4-13/32". . Marker Light Brackets are mounted on sides in 4 corners, 13/16” from bottom edge and 1/16” in from end. Window Awnings are cemented over windows and like Marker Light Brackets are painted either box car red or black. Marker Lights are painted black. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16094	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question Cast Stock Car

The stock car appears to indeed be Walthers. I have one lettered for the Frisco myself. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 2/15/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Next question Cast Stock Car To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2011, 12:32 PM   Forgot to specify, there is no lower door guide, and no place for one to be "pinned" in....however, there is a rod to the right of the closed door, horizontal, below the bottom edge of the door proper, stops short of the door opening, with a ring and chain on it, one door of 4 has the chain attached to the bottom right corner of the door (4 doors on 2 cars). > In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. > Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. > Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. > Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. > I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. > > Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16095	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

On 2/14/2011 11:09 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > Funny, every one I have ever had has included a yellow box with trucks, box says "Silver Streak", and couplers and coupler boxes. > Not going to argue the point, other than to say, so far, every one. > NOT Walthers or Ye Olde Huff n Puff ownership. My comment included all owners of the Silver Streak name - original, Pacific HO, Walthers and Ye Olde Huff 'N Puff. Somewhere in that history T&C disappeared as a normally included item. -- Rick Jones Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Attachments : 20110215_152107.pdf Here's an enlargement and scan from a Pacific HO ad from 1967. It's interesting in that the picture in the Walthers catalog I was originally going to do is this same print reversed. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Weart" <dim01521@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose >I posted a picture of my SS PE caboose in my folder (Wally). The > sides are the original color and the ends which can't be seen are > orange as were the prototypes. > > Wally

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16097	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > On 2/14/2011 11:09 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: >> Funny, every one I have ever had has included a yellow box with trucks, >> box says "Silver Streak", and couplers and coupler boxes. >> Not going to argue the point, other than to say, so far, every one. >> NOT Walthers or Ye Olde Huff n Puff ownership. > > My comment included all owners of the Silver Streak name - original, > Pacific HO, Walthers and Ye Olde Huff 'N Puff. Somewhere in that history > T&C disappeared as a normally included item. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Opportunities always look bigger going than coming. Ca. 1970, they were still Pacific HO, at that time the note in the Walthers' catalog said trucks and couplers (dummys) were still included. 1977, now manufactured by Walthers, "Delrin trucks with Delrin wheels included" 1980, "kits are less trucks and couplers" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16098	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

So, for the purposes of "vintage" discussion, up to at least 1979, T&C included. Since I never buy anything from Walthers (end up with some of their used stuff, but they don't get my money), T&C included. The original photo of the car in question certainly looks like original SS packaging, not later Walthers (altho I haven't seen a PE caboose by Walthers), should have had a yellow box that said Silver Streak with trucks in it, appropriate for the car in question. > Ca. 1970, they were still Pacific HO, at that time the note in the Walthers' > catalog said trucks and couplers (dummys) were still included. > > 1977, now manufactured by Walthers, "Delrin trucks with Delrin wheels > included" > > 1980, "kits are less trucks and couplers" > > Don > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16099	From: Karl Peters	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose

Dear Richard:   Just checked the four kits that I have, and the instructions were for the #108 Combination-Passenger, Baggage, Caboose car.  In the lower right hand corner were special instructions for the #118 (P.E.) and #119 cabooses. The instructions on HO Seeker seem to be an earlier version, as the special instructions are missing.   These kits were purchased ca. 1985 when Siver Streak was being produced by Walthers. None came with trucks or couplers, by the way.   If you need a copy, let me know and I can mail you one.   Karl Peters

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16100	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose

Thanks, Karl. I have now figured out what is going on with this semi-kit. First, the roof is too short, but I can shorten the body 1/4" or so to make it match the roof. The main problem: there are no side doors included in the kit. So I am going to make an appeal for doors. Thanks for your help.  Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: krlpeters@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:40:39 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose   Dear Richard:   Just checked the four kits that I have, and the instructions were for the #108 Combination-Passenger, Baggage, Caboose car.  In the lower right hand corner were special instructions for the #118 (P.E.) and #119 cabooses. The instructions on HO Seeker seem to be an earlier version, as the special instructions are missing.   These kits were purchased ca. 1985 when Siver Streak was being produced by Walthers. None came with trucks or couplers, by the way.   If you need a copy, let me know and I can mail you one.   Karl Peters

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16101	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16102	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? If so I have a couple. But, I don't have door guides. However, all is not lost! Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16103	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals

Attachments : OSTUCO_Sccan_01.pdf Okay, I kind of disappeared for a while.  Three weeks or so ago I was informed that I had developed a clot in my bad leg. And it was due to sloppiness on the part of the staff of the physical rehab I had been banished to. Needless to say I was PO’ed! Took a while for that to pass and in the meantime I was not in the mood to discuss the situation in person or in print.   But I’m home now. Things appear to be progressing now and I’m over my mad-on. I printed the first set (or proof if you prefer) of the decal set. I have finished going over it with a magnifier and will be production printing for the next day or so. Decals should be in the mail by the weekend. I will be emailing all buyer no later than Thursday so if you do not receive an email from me by Thursday night, please email me.   I have scanned the set and have attached it to this post.   John Hagen OBS-CALS  The Obscure Decal People

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16104	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Hmmm, As one of our other folks said, Ye Olde Huff n Puff do have some Silver Streak parts.  Hopefully they have the side doors.  Regarding the roof, I am sure you should be able to get that kind of roof stock from Northeastern, or at least something that will work.  As I recall, the Silver Streak caboose kits used a curved roof, but had a recess at the ends to accommodate the caboose ends.  You will likely need to cut hat recess yourself.  It shouldn't be too bad.  I don't think I would shorten the floor.  You may even consider modifying the existing roof by putting a 1/32 sheet over the curved roof to extend it.  You can buy 1/32 bass or balsa at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or A.C. Moore. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:49:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16105	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals [1 Attachment]

Hi John, I am very glad to hear you are better.  Hopefully the clot never went near anything it could hurt.  Keep getting better. My Undecorated USRA gon should be arriving any day now, so I will get to chop off one end add the special pieces.  Then it will be ready for paint and decals.    I plan on scratchbuilding the second one, that is why I ordered two sets.  Hmm, I may scratch two 42 ones also. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:39:14 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Okay, I kind of disappeared for a while.  Three weeks or so ago I was informed that I had developed a clot in my bad leg. And it was due to sloppiness on the part of the staff of the physical rehab I had been banished to. Needless to say I was PO’ed! Took a while for that to pass and in the meantime I was not in the mood to discuss the situation in person or in print.   But I’m home now. Things appear to be progressing now and I’m over my mad-on. I printed the first set (or proof if you prefer) of the decal set. I have finished going over it with a magnifier and will be production printing for the next day or so. Decals should be in the mail by the weekend. I will be emailing all buyer no later than Thursday so if you do not receive an email from me by Thursday night, please email me.   I have scanned the set and have attached it to this post.   John Hagen OBS-CALS  The Obscure Decal People

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16106	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

On second thought, just cut the original roof to fit EXACTLY between the ends and sides, then glue on a 1/32 sheet of basswood.  This will actually look better than the original. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:45:30 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Hmmm, As one of our other folks said, Ye Olde Huff n Puff do have some Silver Streak parts.  Hopefully they have the side doors.  Regarding the roof, I am sure you should be able to get that kind of roof stock from Northeastern, or at least something that will work.  As I recall, the Silver Streak caboose kits used a curved roof, but had a recess at the ends to accommodate the caboose ends.  You will likely need to cut hat recess yourself.  It shouldn't be too bad.  I don't think I would shorten the floor.  You may even consider modifying the existing roof by putting a 1/32 sheet over the curved roof to extend it.  You can buy 1/32 bass or balsa at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or A.C. Moore. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:49:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16107	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose [1 Attachment]

Thanks, Don. Finally, a photo I can work from.  Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:50:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Here's an enlargement and scan from a Pacific HO ad from 1967. It's interesting in that the picture in the Walthers catalog I was originally going to do is this same print reversed. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Weart" <dim01521@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose >I posted a picture of my SS PE caboose in my folder (Wally). The > sides are the original color and the ends which can't be seen are > orange as were the prototypes. > > Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16108	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Don Dellmann has sent me an ad showing the caboose. The doors are a three-pane "baggage" type, such as you'd find on an early wood baggage car. I'm going to check Ye Olde Huff n Puff to look for doors. Thanks- Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: idioticyahoo@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 02:23:35 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? If so I have a couple. But, I don't have door guides. However, all is not lost! Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16109	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Great idea! Thanks- Richard   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:59:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   On second thought, just cut the original roof to fit EXACTLY between the ends and sides, then glue on a 1/32 sheet of basswood.  This will actually look better than the original. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:45:30 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Hmmm, As one of our other folks said, Ye Olde Huff n Puff do have some Silver Streak parts.  Hopefully they have the side doors.  Regarding the roof, I am sure you should be able to get that kind of roof stock from Northeastern, or at least something that will work.  As I recall, the Silver Streak caboose kits used a curved roof, but had a recess at the ends to accommodate the caboose ends.  You will likely need to cut hat recess yourself.  It shouldn't be too bad.  I don't think I would shorten the floor.  You may even consider modifying the existing roof by putting a 1/32 sheet over the curved roof to extend it.  You can buy 1/32 bass or balsa at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or A.C. Moore. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:49:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16110	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/sstreakkits.htm Look at Drover's Cabooses: http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/images/HO/ss%20undec%20caboose.jpg If he's got the kits, he probably has doors, even though not listed in parts. > Don Dellmann has sent me an ad showing the caboose. The doors are a three-pane "baggage" type, such as you'd find on an early wood baggage car. I'm going to check Ye Olde Huff n Puff to look for doors. Thanks- Richard > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: idioticyahoo@... > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 02:23:35 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose > > > > > > > Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? > If so I have a couple. > But, I don't have door guides. > However, all is not lost! > Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > > > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16111	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

I think the doors are the same as used on the combine caboose - I'm sitting in bed typing this on my laptop and the caboose is out in the garage, otherwise I'd go and check! Tom  On 16 February 2011 05:22, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Don Dellmann has sent me an ad showing the caboose. The doors are a three-pane "baggage" type, such as you'd find on an early wood baggage car. I'm going to check Ye Olde Huff n Puff to look for doors. Thanks- Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: idioticyahoo@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 02:23:35 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? If so I have a couple. But, I don't have door guides. However, all is not lost! Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16112	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

Looks like some old International Models hoppers that I have. They weigh a ton! Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16113	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: This Weekend! - Great Train Expo in Portland, OR

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Great Train Expo <bill@...> Date: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:50 AM Subject: This Weekend! - Great Train Expo in Portland, OR To: gn5263@... Great Train Expo Portland, OR - February 19 & 20, 2011 Show Schedule 02/19-20/2011 Portland, OR Portland Expo Center 02/26-27/2011 Denver, CO National Western Complex 03/05-06/2011 Columbus, OH Ohio Expo Center 03/12-13/2011 Wichita, KS Century II 03/19-20/2011 Kansas City, MO American Royal Cmplx 03/26-27/2011 Mobile, AL Greater Gulf State Fair 07/16-17/2011 San Jose, CA Santa Clara Co. Fairgrounds 07/23-24/2011 Pomona, CA Fairplex 07/30-31/2011 Belleville, IL Belle-Clair Fairgrounds Park 08/06-07/2011 Orlando, FL Central Florida Fairgrounds 08/13-14/2011 Tampa, FL Florida State Fairgrounds 08/20-21/2011 Mandeville, LA Castine Center     09/17-18/2011 Springfield, IL Illinois State Fairgrounds 09/24-25/2011 Indianapolis, IN Indiana State Fairgrounds   10/15-16/2011 Austin, TX Austin Convention Center   11/05-06/2011 Norcross, GA North Atlanta Trade Center   11/12-13/2011 Marina District of Richmond, CA Craneway Pavilion 11/19-20/2011 Puyallup, WA Puyallup Fair & Events Ctr   11/26-27/2011 Collinsville, IL Gateway Center    12/03-04/2011 Del Mar, CA Del Mar Fairgrounds   12/10-11/2011 Pomona, CA Fairplex   12/17-18, 2011 Indianapolis, IN Indiana State Fairgrounds   The Great Train Expo is pleased to be returning to Portland, OR     Where: Portland Expo Center 2060 North Marine Drive Portland, OR  97217 Directions/Map  When: Saturday & Sunday February 19 & 20, 2011 10:00am to 4:00pm, Both Days Cost: Adults: $7.00 Kids under 12: FREE!   Show Features: a PACKED building full of dealers with ALL sizes & Scales!! 300+ Tables with over 50 Exhibitors from across the country!! Operating Model Railroads in many sizes and scales Trains Kids Can Play With!! Amazing LEGO Layout! a HUGE riding train for kids! Free Workshops & Demonstrations Door Prizes! Much, Much More!   Contact Us Interested in Becoming an Exhibitor?  Have Questions?  Contact Us At: Great Train Expo - P.O. Box 725, Oswego, IL 60543 - E-Mail Us! Phone: 630/608-4988, Fax: 630/566-0400, Visit Our Web Site!   Forward email This email was sent to gn5263@... by bill@... |   Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Great Train Expo | PO Box 725 | Oswego | IL | 60543

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16114	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MYSTERY 2-8-4 BRASS & DIECAST STEAM ENGINE I have listed.

Hi Guys! I am sorry as I swore I would never try to promote a listing I have posted on eBay and truly this is not an attempt to do so. I really have no idea who makes this engine, although I think it could have been a British company.. It is brass and diecast and was built from a kit. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated: It is not a vintage engine, I can tell that... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320657220757&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT RARE BRASS DIECAST 2-8-4 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE BOWSER CARY Thanks in advance: Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16115	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Want to buy.

Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16116	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Bill, I have the Famoco box cab b1 which has been completely restored, painted, and decaled. Runs great. Original pantographs, great box and the quaint directions. I'm willing to sell, but it would probably cost you more than you want to pay. Perhaps someone else has one for under $450.   Art W       In a message dated 2/16/2011 9:58:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill_pittman1@... writes: Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16117	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Bill,           I wish you luck finding and buying any of the engines you mention. . These are not $100 items. Now I am talking about all top of the line pieces. Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1)        I think your best chance and the easiest on the pocketbook will be to find the Varney streamlined cast brass body and a Varney 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 mechanism. Mine not for sale       Same with a custom painted FAMOCO B-1 rat. Unless you get very lucky I'm afraid you will be paying TOP dollar for any you want. Again mine not for sale       If you care to see pictures of any of the engines you mention that are in my vintage collection go to www.hoseeker.net, click on  Gallery, find Varney Diesel for the 4-8-4 electric, find Varney Steam for a 4-6-4 streamlined brass engine and find FAMOCO ( Famous Model Company) under HO Trains A to G.      Hopefully you will hit it lucky and find what you want at your reasonably price.                                           Jim H           ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Want to buy.   Bill, I have the Famoco box cab b1 which has been completely restored, painted, and decaled. Runs great. Original pantographs, great box and the quaint directions. I'm willing to sell, but it would probably cost you more than you want to pay. Perhaps someone else has one for under $450.   Art W       In a message dated 2/16/2011 9:58:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill_pittman1@... writes: Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16118	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Thank you Jim. I expect To pay in the ballpark of $350+ for the gg1 body, $275+ for the 4-6-4 And i would be willing to go $300-325 for the B1. I model the prr and all my locos but one are die-cast and that is what i prefer to run because of the pulling power. Thanks again Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > I wish you luck finding and buying any of the engines you mention. . These are not $100 items. Now I am talking about all top of the line pieces. Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) > > I think your best chance and the easiest on the pocketbook will be to find the Varney streamlined cast brass body and a Varney 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 mechanism. Mine not for sale > > Same with a custom painted FAMOCO B-1 rat. Unless you get very lucky I'm afraid you will be paying TOP dollar for any you want. Again mine not for sale > > If you care to see pictures of any of the engines you mention that are in my vintage collection go to www.hoseeker.net, click on Gallery, find Varney Diesel for the 4-8-4 electric, find Varney Steam for a 4-6-4 streamlined brass engine and find FAMOCO ( Famous Model Company) under HO Trains A to G. > > Hopefully you will hit it lucky and find what you want at your reasonably price. > > Jim H > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: luvprr@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Want to buy. > > > > > Bill, > I have the Famoco box cab b1 which has been completely restored, painted, and decaled. Runs great. Original pantographs, great box and the quaint directions. I'm willing to sell, but it would probably cost you more than you want to pay. Perhaps someone else has one for under $450. > > Art W > > > > In a message dated 2/16/2011 9:58:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill_pittman1@... writes: > Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16119	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

Odd.....I have three 2-bays up on the shelf, unidentified, this one, a straight side, cast, with separate center sill frame, and a s one I always thought was International. > Looks like some old International Models hoppers that I have. They weigh > a ton! > > Jim Waterman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16120	From: Larry	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: This Weekend! - Peoria Train Fair in East Peoria, IL

Sunday, February 20th from 10 am until 3 pm at the Main Campus of Illinois Central College.   Lots of dealers, displays, and railroad model items in many scales for sale. If you are any where near Central Illinois this Sunday, this is the show for you!   Larry Miller III Peoria, IL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16121	From: Richard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MDC Shay Truck Mounting Pins

I'm working on a kit bash project using MDC Shay trucks. I'm wondering if anyone ever found a better way to attach these trucks other than MDC's plastic mounting pin. There is only a tiny bit of room to work with inside one of these trucks so I'm looking for some altenate ideas on how to mount them. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16122	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: I need a part.

I'm in need of the motor worm for a a Varney Economy Pacific chassis. Can someone help on this? It's for a never finally assembled pairing of the Varney Bronze Streamlined steamer superstructure and an unpowered chassis. Getting the right worm gear will allow me to power it with the original axle gear. Failing that happening, has anyone used a more modern gearbox on one of these old Varney Economy Pacifics and liked the result? I'd like to know what worked for that. I'm thinking of making a mold and casting weighted dups of the superstructure to put on Mantua drives. It would be a kick to bring two or more of those to the Big Club near me and run passenger trains on several miles of scale tracks, using tenders much like the Milwaukee Road S3 tenders if I don't find available big steamer Varney tenders I'd still like to get the original Varney operational, I might keep it in virgin metal, and let it's new sisters do regular operation. Thanks guys, Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16123	From: RalphB	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) --------------------- All, The Pennsy actually had a 2-D-2 (4-8-4) electric locomotive with a body similar to the GG-1; it was a one-off prototype, class R-1. In fact, it was the only 4-8-4 on the Pennsylvania Railroad roster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_R1 Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16124	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on

Hi Guys! Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it skyrocket!   Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph   It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946.   A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green   Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the history of this piece: http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16125	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Thanks for the info. I would settle for the repo because I do want it to make a R1 out of it. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) > --------------------- > All, > > The Pennsy actually had a 2-D-2 (4-8-4) electric locomotive with a body similar to the GG-1; it was a one-off prototype, class R-1. In fact, it was the only 4-8-4 on the Pennsylvania Railroad roster. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_R1 > > Ralph B >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16126	From: Nelson	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Wow... 1375 smackers! Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > skyrocket! > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > history of this piece: > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16127	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Cool Nelson,   The link I sent said the kit form came out ~1948-49 I think..   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 5:12:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay!   Wow... 1375 smackers! Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > skyrocket! > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > history of this piece: > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16128	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

So there were enough people who knew what it was. $1375. I suspect that was a fair price, eh? Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16129	From: JimW	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

I have an original Varney streamliner, which has an aluminum body with cast in stripes. It is about the right size for an R-1, but kind of crude. Would also be very expensive. I know mine is original and have been offered $1000 for it. I would consider cutting up something like an Ahm or Mehano GG1. Drivers were smaller than GG1 on the Ri, Varney used a 2-8-2 mechanism (had the side rods too). The side frames were cast integral to the cab. Jim Waterman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Pittman" <bill_pittman1@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the info. I would settle for the repo because I do want it to make a R1 out of it. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@> wrote: > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) > > --------------------- > > All, > > > > The Pennsy actually had a 2-D-2 (4-8-4) electric locomotive with a body similar to the GG-1; it was a one-off prototype, class R-1. In fact, it was the only 4-8-4 on the Pennsylvania Railroad roster. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_R1 > > > > Ralph B > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16130	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Reminds me of the time I saw a Lionel clockwork Mickey Mouse train go for $3500.00 on e-bay. The funny thing was that the seller had no clue. He started it at $9.95 Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote: > > So there were enough people who knew what it was. $1375. I suspect that > was a fair price, eh? > > Jim Waterman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Might have been some 'Big' traders in that. I just looked at the bid record. Four of them waited until moments before the expiration time and kited it from $444 to the final $1,375, with four bids within 11-seconds. The low man in those 11-seconds was at $866 The winner shows that he has been buying from ebay for 1581-wins !! One of the guys that passed on going for the final round has 3292- wins !!!! He stopped 5-hours before at $330 and was beat by just $3. The others in the final seconds average about 330-wins........... The second highest was $1,350, makes me wonder what the unknown upper limit of the winner actually was........ So in this case you would have to have last-second bidding software and be well able to bid at something over $1,500. Yikes !!!!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 18, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Jim Waterman wrote: > So there were enough people who knew what it was. $1375. I suspect > that > was a fair price, eh?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16132	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Mike, I have the part you need. E-mail me with your address and I will send it to you, attached to an original motor. I don't need it as my Varney streamline Pacific has been re-motored with a Sagami can motor and a KTM idler gearbox. No charge. I'm just glad someone can use it. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm in need of the motor worm for a a Varney Economy Pacific chassis. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16133	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Electric

Attachments : IMG_6779_2.JPG IMG_6777_1.JPG Jim W, Bill P, Ralph, All.         I just wanted to add some information concerning the Varney streamlined pre war electric since it gets a little confusing every time it's discussed.     The Varney electric is a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. It is as noted that it is actually classified an R-1 and from what I'm told only one was made. The problem as to description comes where people see GG-1 associated with it right from Varney paperwork that states SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1 ( no it is not a GG-1 ). Varney wanted to create a streamlined electric that could utilize minimum radius track like 15".       I have sent a picture of my Varney Streamlined Electric that was to use a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation drive cut down according to plans that can be found on www.hoseeker.net.  Side rods stayed on. You will also see the ad for SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1. The leading / trailing trucks were to be the Varney pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. I have paperwork from a number of sources to verify my body as original and not a repro. Years ago I was offered $1500 for it but declined and don't intend to sell it.      I know there has been a lot of discussion about prices, whether you believe right or wrong, on certain items. ( No I'm not talking about some big mistakes like 0-4-0 Mantua $100 engines ) People have to remember there is a network out there besides eBay and the Yahoo groups that are avid collectors.     Bill P.    I want to offer you a possible way to get a little cheaper R-1. I've sent a second picture of one of my fantasy engines. It has a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement that I am told resembles an R-5. It was created using  TYCO's so called GG-1 body that is 9 inches long.( The Varney streamlined electric is 8" long ). I used  4 wheel Mantua power trucks front and back that snap right into the body. I then added 6 dummy drivers ( you could use 8 for the R-1   )that float and move side to side allowing this fantasy engine to take 15" radius track including switch track with no problem. With the double powered trucks pulling power not a problem and I love the "BLACK JACK" paint scheme on the TYCO body.        Now this might not fit your needs, might not follow prototype and dimension wise be wrong but I suggest it as a cheaper idea to make an R-1 especially if you can't find, or afford, a Varney (or even a repro) body as a starting point.                                        Jim H.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16134	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments]

Attachments : MNR_202.jpg Don't get me started on cutting up GG-1's :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments] Jim W, Bill P, Ralph, All. I just wanted to add some information concerning the Varney streamlined pre war electric since it gets a little confusing every time it's discussed. The Varney electric is a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. It is as noted that it is actually classified an R-1 and from what I'm told only one was made. The problem as to description comes where people see GG-1 associated with it right from Varney paperwork that states SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1 ( no it is not a GG-1 ). Varney wanted to create a streamlined electric that could utilize minimum radius track like 15". I have sent a picture of my Varney Streamlined Electric that was to use a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation drive cut down according to plans that can be found on www.hoseeker.net. Side rods stayed on. You will also see the ad for SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1. The leading / trailing trucks were to be the Varney pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. I have paperwork from a number of sources to verify my body as original and not a repro. Years ago I was offered $1500 for it but declined and don't intend to sell it. I know there has been a lot of discussion about prices, whether you believe right or wrong, on certain items. ( No I'm not talking about some big mistakes like 0-4-0 Mantua $100 engines ) People have to remember there is a network out there besides eBay and the Yahoo groups that are avid collectors. Bill P. I want to offer you a possible way to get a little cheaper R-1. I've sent a second picture of one of my fantasy engines. It has a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement that I am told resembles an R-5. It was created using TYCO's so called GG-1 body that is 9 inches long.( The Varney streamlined electric is 8" long ). I used 4 wheel Mantua power trucks front and back that snap right into the body. I then added 6 dummy drivers ( you could use 8 for the R-1 )that float and move side to side allowing this fantasy engine to take 15" radius track including switch track with no problem. With the double powered trucks pulling power not a problem and I love the "BLACK JACK" paint scheme on the TYCO body. Now this might not fit your needs, might not follow prototype and dimension wise be wrong but I suggest it as a cheaper idea to make an R-1 especially if you can't find, or afford, a Varney (or even a repro) body as a starting point. Jim H.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16135	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: WANTED GG1 SHELLS !! Re: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric

I hope some folks can help me on this......... I want to gather some GG-1 shells to do creative kit-bashing with......... Plastics would be nice. Any of the fake GG-1's like from Tyco would be fine. I don't need the pantographs, I don't need the correct mechs, I don't care if the shells have poor paint. I'm after the bodies of otherwise throw-away GG-1 and sorta GG-1's to resection and dieselize. Cracked bodies are OK by me as long as the pieces are gathered to send off. Some half-bodies would be fine as well. So if anyone has some orphaned GG-1 or near GG-1's shells they would like to see get used instead of gathering dust, please contact me. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Don't get me started on cutting up GG-1's :-) ..................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16136	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [1 Attachment]

Looks like something from American Motors! On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Don't get me started on cutting up GG-1's :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments] Jim W, Bill P, Ralph, All. I just wanted to add some information concerning the Varney streamlined pre war electric since it gets a little confusing every time it's discussed. The Varney electric is a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. It is as noted that it is actually classified an R-1 and from what I'm told only one was made. The problem as to description comes where people see GG-1 associated with it right from Varney paperwork that states SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1 ( no it is not a GG-1 ). Varney wanted to create a streamlined electric that could utilize minimum radius track like 15". I have sent a picture of my Varney Streamlined Electric that was to use a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation drive cut down according to plans that can be found on www.hoseeker.net. Side rods stayed on. You will also see the ad for SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1. The leading / trailing trucks were to be the Varney pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. I have paperwork from a number of sources to verify my body as original and not a repro. Years ago I was offered $1500 for it but declined and don't intend to sell it. I know there has been a lot of discussion about prices, whether you believe right or wrong, on certain items. ( No I'm not talking about some big mistakes like 0-4-0 Mantua $100 engines ) People have to remember there is a network out there besides eBay and the Yahoo groups that are avid collectors. Bill P. I want to offer you a possible way to get a little cheaper R-1. I've sent a second picture of one of my fantasy engines. It has a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement that I am told resembles an R-5. It was created using TYCO's so called GG-1 body that is 9 inches long.( The Varney streamlined electric is 8" long ). I used 4 wheel Mantua power trucks front and back that snap right into the body. I then added 6 dummy drivers ( you could use 8 for the R-1 )that float and move side to side allowing this fantasy engine to take 15" radius track including switch track with no problem. With the double powered trucks pulling power not a problem and I love the "BLACK JACK" paint scheme on the TYCO body. Now this might not fit your needs, might not follow prototype and dimension wise be wrong but I suggest it as a cheaper idea to make an R-1 especially if you can't find, or afford, a Varney (or even a repro) body as a starting point. Jim H. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16137	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, I won !!!

Attachments : Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit.tiff I just got luck and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some time now....... I get to build a virginal ......... Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! eBay Item number: 350439718301 I've been suffering under a horrible Cold/Flu for the last week-plus and am too sick to make it to the annual big train show in Madison, Wi this weekend. So I just got back from a short trip to the LHS where I secured a few types of DCC boards to tinker with, eventually fitting them into very small HO speeders with their strobe and flash lighting options. I'm tinkering with power solutions of very tiny 9-vt motors and gearing that will power units like the Jordan 1900's Oldsmobile speeder. But I better not go into those details. I'll attach the Thomas Flyer image from the auction. It looks like it's a few decades old of a kit and I'd prefer to replace the motor with something of today's better quality. This will be built and operated. I never thought I'd be able to actually get one of these. To get the joy of building it as well is a real treat by itself. These days I can put functional lighting in her for night running. Now where can I find some really thin leather to apply to the seats ????? This will be -FUN- !!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16138	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]

You sure got a good deal.  Complete kits like this in the box quite often go for over a hundred dollars.  This auction must have slipped under the radar of some folks.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]   I just got luck and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some time now....... I get to build a virginal ......... Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! eBay Item number: 350439718301 I've been suffering under a horrible Cold/Flu for the last week-plus and am too sick to make it to the annual big train show in Madison, Wi this weekend. So I just got back from a short trip to the LHS where I secured a few types of DCC boards to tinker with, eventually fitting them into very small HO speeders with their strobe and flash lighting options. I'm tinkering with power solutions of very tiny 9-vt motors and gearing that will power units like the Jordan 1900's Oldsmobile speeder. But I better not go into those details. I'll attach the Thomas Flyer image from the auction. It looks like it's a few decades old of a kit and I'd prefer to replace the motor with something of today's better quality. This will be built and operated. I never thought I'd be able to actually get one of these. To get the joy of building it as well is a real treat by itself. These days I can put functional lighting in her for night running. Now where can I find some really thin leather to apply to the seats ????? This will be -FUN- !!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16139	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]

Mike: Moderator hat on: Many of us can't open Tiff attachments. That's why I ask people only attach .jpg files. Otherwise, just post the link to the eBay site in your message. Moderator hat off. Will we see her run on the layout at Trainfest this fall? Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <VintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 6:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment] > I just got luck and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some > time now....... > > I get to build a virginal ......... > > Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! > > eBay Item number: 350439718301 > > I've been suffering under a horrible Cold/Flu for the last week-plus > and am too sick to make it to the annual big train show in Madison, Wi > this weekend. So I just got back from a short trip to the LHS where I > secured a few types of DCC boards to tinker with, eventually fitting > them into very small HO speeders with their strobe and flash lighting > options. > > I'm tinkering with power solutions of very tiny 9-vt motors and > gearing that will power units like the Jordan 1900's Oldsmobile > speeder. But I better not go into those details. > > I'll attach the Thomas Flyer image from the auction. > > It looks like it's a few decades old of a kit and I'd prefer to > replace the motor with something of today's better quality. > > This will be built and operated. > > I never thought I'd be able to actually get one of these. To get the > joy of building it as well is a real treat by itself. These days I can > put functional lighting in her for night running. > > Now where can I find some really thin leather to apply to the > seats ????? > > This will be -FUN- !!! > > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16140	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, Mikie Won

Attachments : Kemtron+HO+1907+Thomas+Flyer+powered+rail+truck+kit[1].jpg Don & Mike   Jpg photo attached fer all to see.   John Hagen

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16141	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, Mikie Won [1 Attachment]

Congratulations.  It's nice to see something like this caught and saved.  I remember drooling over those Kemtron ads when I was a kid and had no money.  Ha. In all these years I've never seen a photo of the opened kit much less the real thing in the flesh. Cheers, Dennis At 06:34 PM 2/19/2011, you wrote: [ Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Don & Mike   Jpg photo attached fer all to see.   John Hagen Attachment(s) from John Hagen 1 of 1 Photo(s) Kemtron+HO+1907+Thomas+Flyer+powered+rail+truck+kit[1].jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16142	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!

I think it may have been because the box was beat-up. The timing sure was good for me! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 7:30 PM, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > > You sure got a good deal. Complete kits like this in the box quite > often go for over a hundred dollars. This auction must have slipped > under the radar of some folks. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Bauers > > I just got lucky and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some > time now....... > > I get to build a virginal ......... > > Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! > > eBay Item number: 350439718301 .................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16143	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!

Attachments : Tiny Drive sample.jpg Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit CROP.jpg Sorry, My screen grab is set to give me .tif for editing wants. I've since made a cropped .jpg I'll attach. Well, I like to make her run on standard DC. But I've already had bad vibes about loosing her to the public at a public showing. She's just too tiny and easy to grab. But i do have several less valuable raw models like a number of Model- T's and larger cars like the fancy big 1927 Lincoln I bought to convert to speeders with my project of slot-car gears and tiny 6-mm 9- vt motors. I could at least do a van with a slightly larger motor to bring to TrainFest. Or one of the Jordan buses made into a Railbus. I've got three different types of those as well as the big Mack Railbus. Should I load up a suitable looking work truck? I could work-tower a Mack Bulldog from a Jordan coal truck. ACTUALLY........ About an hour ago, I presented the observations that a very similar model could be kit-bashed from two of the Jordan Model-T Touring car kits in HOn3, on the Gorre and Dephetid list. I wouldn't mind doing that in HOn3 and HO with the 6-mm motors and a voltage limiter on board......... maybe in a small trailer behind the Reborn Thomas Flyer kit-bash....... say using a Jordan Model-T pick-up truck end for the trailer? Or better, a copy of that made from sheet metal as part of the heat-sink of the voltage limiter. The model-T trailer would be all metal with the voltage limiter as a bulky load under a canvas cover. I want to build lots of goodies with those parts anyway. I'd better order my working supply of the slotcar gears ASAP. I have three sets to prototype with. It's a pair of $1.50 or so gears. You'll love the trick I found online about making the chassis with bent wire rods and tubing axle mounts. It's like building a chassis with side by side, staggered construction staples. So........ I'll let my creative Muse guide me as to which I'll get ready. But I will bring a couple of operating types to Trainfest. A Flyer would be a Hoot to show.......... Related to this, I'll attach a drive picture I found in my 'studies'. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Mike: > > Moderator hat on: > > Many of us can't open Tiff attachments. That's why I ask people > only attach > .jpg files. Otherwise, just post the link to the eBay site in your > message. > > Moderator hat off. > > Will we see her run on the layout at Trainfest this fall? .......

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16144	From: Chris B	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [2 Attachments]

Mike, I'll take a look at that chassis and drive plan if it's ok to steal it, I've got 4 Evans Auto-Railers on my roster that will have to be scratch built, and it sounds promising. Chris B. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:29:34 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wow, I won !!! [2 Attachments]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16145	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!

Attachments : Japanese Thomas Flyer Wanna-Be.jpg Chris, I'll document the parts and instruct from the Flyer and make them available. I also have more of the development of that chassis image. The fellow is a modeler in Japan and he built a more compact version of the Thomas Flyer by modeling a more conventional Model-T Touring car. He made the body with some sort of craft clay and used a cast metal hood over the electric motor. When completed, he had an Official inspection being done by TopHats in the back seat and the drier in the usual spot. This was built by one of the HOn30 Japanese Kiso modelers. I'll attach one of the finished images of the model and if you'd like, I can send the set of the rest directly to you. I just checked my images with an 'info' and I see I have captured the original URL as well As for the un-pictured bar and tube chassis I've mentioned. I've saved a picture quite a while ago and didn't ref it properly. So it's a hard find on my computer. I'll assemble an unpowered one in the next couple of days or so to show how simple that can be. I'll later build one that fits the gears and tiny motors I have for those. I'll build it to fit some of the Jordan HO models. I'm hopeful I'll have enough room to power one of those very tiny 1901 [?] Jordan HO Oldsmobile track speeders. it will certainly power a HO Model-T. With the attachment, you'll see that other homemade Japanese chassis in a scratchbuilt Model-T touring car. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Chris B wrote: > Mike, I'll take a look at that chassis and drive plan if it's ok to > steal it, I've got 4 Evans Auto-Railers on my roster that will have > to be scratch built, and it sounds promising. > Chris B.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16146	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric

Jim You should probably call your fantasy machine a P5A modified vs. R-5. In Pennsy parlance a P was a 4-6-4. and an R was a 4-8-4. There was only one Pennsy R, and that was the single R-1 electric prototype we are all referencing. I could see using the Tyco shell with a 2-8-0 drive under it as a surrogate. If you look around, there were a bunch of Trackside Specialties L-6 sideframes made up for the engine kit that never happened. These might be close to the right size/detail, but not exact. The R-1 was a unique (and mighty) machine. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16147	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric

Jim,    It had been mentioned before that I should be calling that fantasy electric a P  instead of  R. Just never got around to doing it. Such a small thing and just always forgotten. My main thing in showing it was to show  with  8 drive wheels under it might be a start for a cheap R-1.                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Waterman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Streamlined Electric   Jim You should probably call your fantasy machine a P5A modified vs. R-5. In Pennsy parlance a P was a 4-6-4. and an R was a 4-8-4. There was only one Pennsy R, and that was the single R-1 electric prototype we are all referencing. I could see using the Tyco shell with a 2-8-0 drive under it as a surrogate. If you look around, there were a bunch of Trackside Specialties L-6 sideframes made up for the engine kit that never happened. These might be close to the right size/detail, but not exact. The R-1 was a unique (and mighty) machine. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16148	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Ya never know... Last year, I bought a brass loco from a guy- via eBay- and it arrived in perfect shape, well packed... Last month I bought another. Same guy- almost the same engine(-a CB&Q 2-8-2 by Oriental and a C&NW 2-8-2 by Overland) The second engine wasn't wrapped. He had replaced the foam with foam 'chunks'. In transit, the piping became "caught" in the foam and, on the long, BUMPY trip from N.J. to CA, the loco was almost de-nuded of the injectors and air piping. I thought it was common knowledge that you should wrap a model in plastic of some kind to protect the small stuff. He did it last year. Maybe he forgot??? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16149	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know Rivarossi was that collectible! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Wow... 1375 smackers! > > Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys! > > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > > skyrocket! > > > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > > history of this piece: > > > > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > > > > Sean > >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16150	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Joe,   For steam engines with tons of detail... This is what I try to always do and recomend to sellers shipping my stuff...   Wrap in paper first, then bubble wrap. Finish it off with a plastic shopping bag. The paper protects the bubble wrap from the sharp edges of the engine and the bag catches any small parts that might drop off during transit. Beyond that, I do not car what is used as filler in the box, provided it has some give upon impact and it is tight enough to hold the item in place...even after impact.   I shake (gently, but firmly) each box before I ship it. If I feel movement at all, I open the box and add more filler.   I prefer crumpled paper as it seems to withstand impact and hold firmly. For heavy items though, such as a Varney locomotive.. The filler needs to be firmer, such as peanuts. What I often do is I add a layer of peanuts, put down a barrier sheet of paper or bubble wrap accross the entire surface area, add the item, fill the voids level, add another barrier sheet and then fill the remaining with peanuts. Before i close the box, I make sure the peanut packing is tight, but not too tight.  The paper or bubble wrap layer prevents the item from vibrating to the bottom of the box. I only wish I received my items this way..   Sometimes i screw up, but not often. I admit it when I do and do not ever give the buyer a hard time about it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: joegideon <joegideon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:46:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Ya never know... Last year, I bought a brass loco from a guy- via eBay- and it arrived in perfect shape, well packed... Last month I bought another. Same guy- almost the same engine(-a CB&Q 2-8-2 by Oriental and a C&NW 2-8-2 by Overland) The second engine wasn't wrapped. He had replaced the foam with foam 'chunks'. In transit, the piping became "caught" in the foam and, on the long, BUMPY trip from N.J. to CA, the loco was almost de-nuded of the injectors and air piping. I thought it was common knowledge that you should wrap a model in plastic of some kind to protect the small stuff. He did it last year. Maybe he forgot??? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16151	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Joe, Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from Italy of this piece.   Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin.   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: joegideon <joegideon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay!   There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know Rivarossi was that collectible! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Wow... 1375 smackers! > > Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys! > > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > > skyrocket! > > > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > > history of this piece: > > > > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > > > > Sean > >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16152	From: Nelson	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

I figured these were collectible because the LV John Wilkes is a rare model. I don't think it's worth this kind of money, even with the coaches, but when collectors get involved all bets are off. I hope this version of their Pacific doesn't have their magic melting motor mount. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Joe, > Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us > Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market > and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to > over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from > Italy of this piece. > > Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: joegideon <joegideon@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced > just sold on eBay! > >   > There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that > same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know > Rivarossi was that collectible!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16153	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Nelson,          Three years ago I sold an Overland Factory Painted John Wilkes Pacific and tender ( no cars ) for over $1400. I had originally paid $995 for it brand new and hardly ever ran it. Like you said when real collectors get involved you never know.        Many years ago I remember an American Flyer green tank car ( forgot the name on the car but can go back to the HOSC&H_SIG newsletter to find exactly what it was.) The car was in original box but had 4 BROKEN steps and went for $1385 Believe it or not.                          Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay!   I figured these were collectible because the LV John Wilkes is a rare model. I don't think it's worth this kind of money, even with the coaches, but when collectors get involved all bets are off. I hope this version of their Pacific doesn't have their magic melting motor mount. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Joe, > Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us > Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market > and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to > over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from > Italy of this piece. > > Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: joegideon <joegideon@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced > just sold on eBay! > >   > There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that > same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know > Rivarossi was that collectible!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16154	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Sean (and group), I tend to pack that way myself, using an inner wrap of foam sheet instead of paper (Reason being is that if the inside of the package gets wet, the paper can damage some kinds of trains). However, it all means nothing if the post office is late feeding the mail handling gorillas. Couple weeks ago I sold a Bachmann 4-4-0 Jupiter on eBay. Packed it as well as one would expect it to be. Buyer emailed me and informed me the engine was severely damaged. He even pointed out this had to be rough postal handling, as he noted the engine was packed well. Post Office naturally refused responsibility (I don't offer insurance, as postal insurance is much like a lottery the way it is run!), so the buyer bought some parts to fix the engine, got 'em direct from Bachmann. I even refunded the cost of these parts. Got positive feedback, and he's happy, which was the main concern. I do think Sean's seller that packed those locomotives so poorly, needs some education in social skills! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 7:45 AM   Joe,   For steam engines with tons of detail... This is what I try to always do and recomend to sellers shipping my stuff...   Wrap in paper first, then bubble wrap. Finish it off with a plastic shopping bag. The paper protects the bubble wrap from the sharp edges of the engine and the bag catches any small parts that might drop off during transit. Beyond that, I do not car what is used as filler in the box, provided it has some give upon impact and it is tight enough to hold the item in place...even after impact.   I shake (gently, but firmly) each box before I ship it. If I feel movement at all, I open the box and add more filler.   I prefer crumpled paper as it seems to withstand impact and hold firmly. For heavy items though, such as a Varney locomotive.. The filler needs to be firmer, such as peanuts. What I often do is I add a layer of peanuts, put down a barrier sheet of paper or bubble wrap accross the entire surface area, add the item, fill the voids level, add another barrier sheet and then fill the remaining with peanuts. Before i close the box, I make sure the peanut packing is tight, but not too tight.  The paper or bubble wrap layer prevents the item from vibrating to the bottom of the box. I only wish I received my items this way..   Sometimes i screw up, but not often. I admit it when I do and do not ever give the buyer a hard time about it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: joegideon <joegideon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:46:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Ya never know... Last year, I bought a brass loco from a guy- via eBay- and it arrived in perfect shape, well packed... Last month I bought another. Same guy- almost the same engine(-a CB&Q 2-8-2 by Oriental and a C&NW 2-8-2 by Overland) The second engine wasn't wrapped. He had replaced the foam with foam 'chunks'. In transit, the piping became "caught" in the foam and, on the long, BUMPY trip from N.J. to CA, the loco was almost de-nuded of the injectors and air piping. I thought it was common knowledge that you should wrap a model in plastic of some kind to protect the small stuff. He did it last year. Maybe he forgot??? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16155	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???

Group, I have had an "interesting" idea for those of us who use mostly Mantua couplers, but also some Kadee equipped cars. I have a few sidings I would like to uncouple either Mantua or Kadee equipped cars. Space is at a high premium, so I got to thinking of a "dual" uncoupler. I was brainstorming (albeit under the influence of my pain meds for arthritis and degenerative disc disorder), a way to uncouple both, at the same place: I mentioned a few weeks ago my own uncoupling ramps I was making. Basically 1/2" wide brass strip curved upwards and screwed into the roadbed at either end of the strip. Anyone thinking if it would be possible to take a basic small magnet, such as those found on refrigerators, cut them to size, and glue 'em under the apex of that Mantua uncoupler strip I make? Around the beginning of the school year, I have seen small circular magnets meant for kids to post things inside their lockers. If I could find one about 1/2" diameter or slightly smaller, and maybe 3/32" thick, I am thinking those would work. As I use EZ Track, I may be able to "trench" it into the plastic roadbed a bit, too, if I can't get the desired thickness. Anyone think there is merit to this idea, or should I just give it up? Any thoughts? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16156	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???

Kadee magnets are polarized crosswise.  You can break one into two pieces for a shorter ramp and then glue it under the brass strip and bury it into the ties if necessary.  Remember the top of the magnet should be about the same elevation as the top of the rail...  In really critical places you could use the electro-magnet ramp that buries below the track...  Just a couple more ideas to think on. Don Staton in Va. Beach ==================================================================================================== On 2/24/2011 12:32 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have had an "interesting" idea for those of us who use mostly Mantua couplers, but also some Kadee equipped cars. I have a few sidings I would like to uncouple either Mantua or Kadee equipped cars. Space is at a high premium, so I got to thinking of a "dual" uncoupler. I was brainstorming (albeit under the influence of my pain meds for arthritis and degenerative disc disorder), a way to uncouple both, at the same place: I mentioned a few weeks ago my own uncoupling ramps I was making. Basically 1/2" wide brass strip curved upwards and screwed into the roadbed at either end of the strip. Anyone thinking if it would be possible to take a basic small magnet, such as those found on refrigerators, cut them to size, and glue 'em under the apex of that Mantua uncoupler strip I make? Around the beginning of the school year, I have seen small circular magnets meant for kids to post things inside their lockers. If I could find one about 1/2" diameter or slightly smaller, and maybe 3/32" thick, I am thinking those would work. As I use EZ Track, I may be able to "trench" it into the plastic roadbed a bit, too, if I can't get the desired thickness. Anyone think there is merit to this idea, or should I just give it up? Any thoughts? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16157	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Socket wrenches you should get.

Hi Guys,   This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything else and they never round the bolts.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123   If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as it is a great set to have for any modeler.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16158	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.

For what it is worth Morris lists these sockets for $2.90 each and $13.75 for the set plus shipping. --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:04 AM Hi Guys,   This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything else and they never round the bolts.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123   If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as it is a great set to have for any modeler.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16159	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.

That's good to know..  I was not sure if they were still in buisness or not.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 10:18:29 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get.   For what it is worth Morris lists these sockets for $2.90 each and $13.75 for the set plus shipping. --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:04 AM Hi Guys,   This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything else and they never round the bolts.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123   If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as it is a great set to have for any modeler.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16160	From: Nelson	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

That Overland JW must have been a thing of beauty, and $1400 is a lot of money but doesn't seem that unreasonable for it. With collectors, condition is everything, so I'm surprised that tanker would go for that much with broken stirrups. But that still doesn't beat the plain cardboard box from an uncatalogued Sears Lionel set that went for somewhere around $2000 a few years ago. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > Three years ago I sold an Overland Factory Painted John Wilkes Pacific and tender ( no cars ) for over $1400. I had originally paid $995 for it brand new and hardly ever ran it. Like you said when real collectors get involved you never know. > > Many years ago I remember an American Flyer green tank car ( forgot the name on the car but can go back to the HOSC&H_SIG newsletter to find exactly what it was.) The car was in original box but had 4 BROKEN steps and went for $1385 Believe it or not. > > Jim H > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nelson > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:00 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay! > > > > I figured these were collectible because the LV John Wilkes is a rare model. I don't think it's worth this kind of money, even with the coaches, but when collectors get involved all bets are off. I hope this version of their Pacific doesn't have their magic melting motor mount. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us > > Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market > > and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to > > over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from > > Italy of this piece. > > > > Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin. > > > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: joegideon <joegideon@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced > > just sold on eBay! > > > >  > > There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that > > same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know > > Rivarossi was that collectible! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16161	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.

My set of Morris sockets are something in the area of 40+ (maybe even 50+, I really can't remember exactly when I purchased them but it was some time before January, 1961) years old. I guess in such a small size maybe the only truly amazing part about that is that I still have all four in the original pouch! But when I went searching about a year or two ago in response to an inquiry from one of these groups about small sockets, I was very pleasantly surprised to find Morris still in business, still in the USA and still making the same, quality product at reasonable prices. So if I should ever require replacements, I WILL return to Morris. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > That's good to know..  I was not sure if they were still in buisness or not. > > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 10:18:29 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. > >   > For what it is worth Morris lists these sockets for $2.90 each and $13.75 for > the set plus shipping. > > --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > > >From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > >Subject: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. > >To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:04 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Guys, > > > >This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two > >sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid > >here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, > >but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything > >else and they never round the bolts. > > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > > > > >If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I > >have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four > >sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as > >it is a great set to have for any modeler. > > > >Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16162	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16163	From: tom leen	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???

Hi Steve, If it works, I think you've got an ingenious idea there. Then if it works, you could obtain a patten on them and find a manufacturer and distributor. Tom --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Dual Uncoupling Ramps??? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 5:32 AM   Group, I have had an "interesting" idea for those of us who use mostly Mantua couplers, but also some Kadee equipped cars. I have a few sidings I would like to uncouple either Mantua or Kadee equipped cars. Space is at a high premium, so I got to thinking of a "dual" uncoupler. I was brainstorming (albeit under the influence of my pain meds for arthritis and degenerative disc disorder), a way to uncouple both, at the same place: I mentioned a few weeks ago my own uncoupling ramps I was making. Basically 1/2" wide brass strip curved upwards and screwed into the roadbed at either end of the strip. Anyone thinking if it would be possible to take a basic small magnet, such as those found on refrigerators, cut them to size, and glue 'em under the apex of that Mantua uncoupler strip I make? Around the beginning of the school year, I have seen small circular magnets meant for kids to post things inside their lockers. If I could find one about 1/2" diameter or slightly smaller, and maybe 3/32" thick, I am thinking those would work. As I use EZ Track, I may be able to "trench" it into the plastic roadbed a bit, too, if I can't get the desired thickness. Anyone think there is merit to this idea, or should I just give it up? Any thoughts? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16164	From: hooligan	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

Well done John . Now rest up . Stay warm . Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16165	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

Crazy numbers for a broken piece!   ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16166	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open the bidding at 99 cents. Actually it doesn't surprise me all that much. I wonder if Jack P. was one of the bidders :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing? Crazy numbers for a broken piece! ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Sean 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16167	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

WOW! That FREE SHIPPING really works, doesn't it? On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Crazy numbers for a broken piece!   ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16168	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

LET'S PIRATE THEM !!!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 24, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Sean Naylor wrote: Crazy numbers for a broken piece!   ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16169	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 minutes before the winner placed his last bid. Don't know how long this agreement with Fontaine Fox was in effect, which may have had something to do with the length of the production run -- which may not have been that long or as long as Kemtron's regular runs of their goods. Looks like the top bidders knew what they were after, and must have known the rarity of it. I don't care if only two were produced, you'd never see me bid that high on something like this < g >, but then these guys must really be into Kemtron stuff. And to think, it originally went for $25 (powered) when new. A dummy could be had for $11.50. That the power truck is broken is not all that consequential, since it's the trolley car body that gives this piece its value. While not exactly common today, the power truck can be much more easily found than the Toonerville Trolley body. Kemtron used the Lindsay KL766 power unit with these trolley cars -- this unit otherwise know as the "tiny but Mighty" Teaspoon of Power, which was also used in a number of other Kemtron offerings or sold by individually, for a much extended time period. As we know, Lindsay motors of all types can still be found on eBay today just by waiting long enough for them. The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open the bidding > at 99 cents. > > Actually it doesn't surprise me all that much. I wonder if Jack P. was one > of the bidders :-) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing? > > > Crazy numbers for a broken piece! > > ENDING SOON > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > Sean > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16170	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

I was following the offer from the start. I was certain it was going to be an interesting result. Were the originals offered paint and decorated from Kemtron? Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:06 AM, erieberk wrote: > It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours > before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it > were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it > was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 > minutes before the winner placed his last bid. ................. > The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car > (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having > two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car > which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) > train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor > in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power > unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. > > Ray F. W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open >> the bidding >> at 99 cents. ................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16171	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

Speaking of Lindsay power trucks -- of which one model was used to power the Toonerville Trolley -- there is a Lindsay power truck up on eBay right now, ending today in about 14 hours (at 18:43:55 PST), indended for use with Globe/Athearn F7's. Kemtron acquired the Lindsay line in late November of 1956, which is why these motors were used in Kemtron products rather than any other make. The self-contained power truck up on ebay presently (#230587810558), looks to possibly be the popular L-740 which I believe was used on their 1600 HP Diesel ALCo Road Units, or one very similar (this power truck now on e-Bay lacks the flywheel of the other one mentioned). The KL-766 Teaspoon of Power was extremely popular as it was very versatile, so the odds of one appearing for auction should be fairly good. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 minutes before the winner placed his last bid. > > Don't know how long this agreement with Fontaine Fox was in effect, which may have had something to do with the length of the production run -- which may not have been that long or as long as Kemtron's regular runs of their goods. > > Looks like the top bidders knew what they were after, and must have known the rarity of it. I don't care if only two were produced, you'd never see me bid that high on something like this < g >, but then these guys must really be into Kemtron stuff. And to think, it originally went for $25 (powered) when new. A dummy could be had for $11.50. > > That the power truck is broken is not all that consequential, since it's the trolley car body that gives this piece its value. While not exactly common today, the power truck can be much more easily found than the Toonerville Trolley body. Kemtron used the Lindsay KL766 power unit with these trolley cars -- this unit otherwise know as the "tiny but Mighty" Teaspoon of Power, which was also used in a number of other Kemtron offerings or sold by individually, for a much extended time period. As we know, Lindsay motors of all types can still be found on eBay today just by waiting long enough for them. > > The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. > > Ray F. W. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open the bidding > > at 99 cents. > > > > Actually it doesn't surprise me all that much. I wonder if Jack P. was one > > of the bidders :-) > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:09 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing? > > > > > > Crazy numbers for a broken piece! > > > > ENDING SOON > > > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > > > > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16172	From: Richard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Hello Jim, I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16173	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Richard,          I'll try to help you a little different way.   Google   The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index  When it come up click on the first topic.  The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index    and the home page will come up.     Go down the left side to   Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers.        As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages.      Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@... As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay..                                                                     Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0   Hello Jim, I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16174	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck side frame

Hi guys- Can anyone help me obtain one (1) truck side frame for the American Beauty passenger truck? I have all the parts for a pair of trucks except for this one piece. I'd greatly appreciate help with this. Also, if anyone needs the truck springs for Central Valley passenger trucks, or for American Beauty trucks, I will send them what they need, gratis. The good folks at Central Valley were kind enough to send me a bunch of these! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16175	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty truck side frame

Rich,   I may have one.. I'll have to look.. I am not sure though.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: toytrain13 <toytrain13@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 3:26:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty truck side frame   Hi guys- Can anyone help me obtain one (1) truck side frame for the American Beauty passenger truck? I have all the parts for a pair of trucks except for this one piece. I'd greatly appreciate help with this. Also, if anyone needs the truck springs for Central Valley passenger trucks, or for American Beauty trucks, I will send them what they need, gratis. The good folks at Central Valley were kind enough to send me a bunch of these! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16176	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

----- Original Message ----- From: "John H" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has > their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real > pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out > of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and > car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one > end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the > Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones > from the Walthers area. > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement > pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" > project. > > John Hagen Got them today, (one advantage of living in the same town as John <G>) look excellent. Now I just need to ask has anyone decided what's the best yellow for the car. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16177	From: Richard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Hi Jim, Your reply is much appreciated. How strange that your name appeared on HOseeker's diagram without your knowledge. That's a real head scratcher. I will check out the sources your mentioned for diagrams and missing parts. I have since identified more specifically what I need. Chassis spacer p/n P10339, Shouldered screw p/n PA9268 and perhaps a motor p/n X10121. I'm hoping that these three items will get her running again. With regard to the motor, I would be happy with just the worm gear from a bad motor, then I could press it on a can motor which would hopefully quiet the running down a bit. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > I'll try to help you a little different way. Google The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index When it come up click on the first topic. The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index and the home page will come up. Go down the left side to Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers. > > As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages. > > Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@... As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay.. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > Hello Jim, > I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16178	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

One of the guys suggested Tamiya Lemon Yellow.  I just ordered some from my Local Train Buddy. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:10:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail   ----- Original Message ----- From: "John H" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has > their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real > pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out > of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and > car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one > end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the > Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones > from the Walthers area. > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement > pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" > project. > > John Hagen Got them today, (one advantage of living in the same town as John <G>) look excellent. Now I just need to ask has anyone decided what's the best yellow for the car. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16179	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Hi Richard,        I hope you were able to find the information that I wrote about. It seems to me you need a lot of parts and it might be better to buy an entirely different item. Till you track down the parts you need the cost of all of them might be more then to get a complete one off Ebay or elsewhere.      I wrote an email to Larry Stevenson / hoseeker about the paper for the Gilbert 0-6-0 on his site. Larry makes very few mistakes and is very meticulous. He assures me it came with a large pile of paperwork I sent him back in 2008. As I mentioned I did send a lot of paperwork( and a number of times ) with diagrams and parts list for many different companies. Somehow this one got in with them even though this tired old brain doesn't remember it. SENIOR MOMENT. Sometimes just to much information. I still can't find my copy of it that I had to use to send it to him.      No harm no foul except that diagram on hoseeker with the numbers doesn't match the part or part nos at all. I never took notice to that. Thank goodness for the Gilbert American Flyer HO Index being available and there paperwork matches. Glad this discrepancy was picked up.                                 Jim H         ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0   Hi Jim, Your reply is much appreciated. How strange that your name appeared on HOseeker's diagram without your knowledge. That's a real head scratcher. I will check out the sources your mentioned for diagrams and missing parts. I have since identified more specifically what I need. Chassis spacer p/n P10339, Shouldered screw p/n PA9268 and perhaps a motor p/n X10121. I'm hoping that these three items will get her running again. With regard to the motor, I would be happy with just the worm gear from a bad motor, then I could press it on a can motor which would hopefully quiet the running down a bit. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > I'll try to help you a little different way. Google The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index When it come up click on the first topic. The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index and the home page will come up. Go down the left side to Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers. > > As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages. > > Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@... As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay.. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > Hello Jim, > I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16180	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. Check out the folder! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16181	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Red Ball cars

HI Richard White,       Just want to write a short comment on the high quality of the Red Ball cars you built. Great job on all.                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16182	From: Richard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Jim, Thanks for steering me to the Gilbert Index. That is a great site. I am still looking for the parts I need and most likely will try to find a junker. The shoulder screw I may be able to find at a hardware store. The hardest parts to find seem to be the spacer and the motor. I'm sure I will eventually come across what I need. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > > I hope you were able to find the information that I wrote about. It seems to me you need a lot of parts and it might be better to buy an entirely different item. Till you track down the parts you need the cost of all of them might be more then to get a complete one off Ebay or elsewhere. > > I wrote an email to Larry Stevenson / hoseeker about the paper for the Gilbert 0-6-0 on his site. Larry makes very few mistakes and is very meticulous. He assures me it came with a large pile of paperwork I sent him back in 2008. As I mentioned I did send a lot of paperwork( and a number of times ) with diagrams and parts list for many different companies. Somehow this one got in with them even though this tired old brain doesn't remember it. SENIOR MOMENT. Sometimes just to much information. I still can't find my copy of it that I had to use to send it to him. > > No harm no foul except that diagram on hoseeker with the numbers doesn't match the part or part nos at all. I never took notice to that. Thank goodness for the Gilbert American Flyer HO Index being available and there paperwork matches. Glad this discrepancy was picked up. > > > Jim H > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:44 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > Hi Jim, > Your reply is much appreciated. How strange that your name appeared on HOseeker's diagram without your knowledge. That's a real head scratcher. I will check out the sources your mentioned for diagrams and missing parts. > > I have since identified more specifically what I need. Chassis spacer p/n P10339, Shouldered screw p/n PA9268 and perhaps a motor p/n X10121. I'm hoping that these three items will get her running again. With regard to the motor, I would be happy with just the worm gear from a bad motor, then I could press it on a can motor which would hopefully quiet the running down a bit. > Richard > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I'll try to help you a little different way. Google The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index When it come up click on the first topic. The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index and the home page will come up. Go down the left side to Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers. > > > > As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages. > > > > Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@ As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay.. > > > > Jim H > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > > > > > Hello Jim, > > I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. > > Richard in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16183	From: Joe	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

I have the Toonerville Trolley by Kemtron and it is painted exactly the way the one that appeared in the listing was. I also have one that is painted orange with a boxcar brown roof and sides so I assume they were offered both ways or mine was painted by the same guy that painted the one offered in the listing from Europe. I have never tried to run either one and they are actually sitting in a curio cabinet next to the television but the $675.00 price on Ebay may mean that one may be finding a home...really soon. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I was following the offer from the start. I was certain it was going > to be an interesting result. > > Were the originals offered paint and decorated from Kemtron? > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:06 AM, erieberk wrote: > > > It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours > > before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it > > were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it > > was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 > > minutes before the winner placed his last bid. > ................. > > The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car > > (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having > > two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car > > which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) > > train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor > > in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power > > unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > >> > >> At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open > >> the bidding > >> at 99 cents. ................ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16184	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI

*****************PRESS RELEASE****************** All Aboard!!! The METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH Annual Model Railroad show and swap meet will be held on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train layout on display. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your time and any assistance James Bartelt Show Chairman 262-284-5876 jimbartelt@... www.metrorrclub.org

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16185	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Rebuilds

Attachments : HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 2 crop.jpg HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 1 crop.jpg I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16186	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI

First time I've ever been called a "returning favorite" :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "scrimjimmy" <jimbartelt@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI > *****************PRESS RELEASE****************** > > All Aboard!!! The METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH Annual Model Railroad > show and swap meet will be held on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B > Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. > to 4 p.m. > > All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. > > A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale > layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's > with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is > the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so > small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine > Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale > layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features > various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such > as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. > METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged > best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and > numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. > The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the > show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the > Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train > cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some > of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's > showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale > trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern > will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to > actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train > layout on display. > > In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand > to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some > notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling > his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that > specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many > other dealers. > > The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers > young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. > Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and > one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. > > This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the > largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is > held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; > attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. > METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. > > Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are > admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this > year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires > Unlimited Automotive Services. > > Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to > contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your > time and any assistance > > James Bartelt > Show Chairman > 262-284-5876 > jimbartelt@... > www.metrorrclub.org > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16187	From: James Bartelt	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI

Well we did get a lot of favorable comments about your layout. Jim On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   First time I've ever been called a "returning favorite" :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "scrimjimmy" <jimbartelt@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI > *****************PRESS RELEASE****************** > > All Aboard!!! The METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH Annual Model Railroad > show and swap meet will be held on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B > Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. > to 4 p.m. > > All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. > > A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale > layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's > with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is > the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so > small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine > Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale > layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features > various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such > as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. > METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged > best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and > numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. > The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the > show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the > Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train > cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some > of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's > showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale > trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern > will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to > actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train > layout on display. > > In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand > to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some > notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling > his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that > specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many > other dealers. > > The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers > young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. > Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and > one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. > > This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the > largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is > held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; > attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. > METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. > > Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are > admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this > year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires > Unlimited Automotive Services. > > Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to > contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your > time and any assistance > > James Bartelt > Show Chairman > 262-284-5876 > jimbartelt@... > www.metrorrclub.org > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2011 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16188	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds [2 Attachments]

What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16189	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

----- Original Message ----- From: <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds What is "the LHS"? Chuck Kinzer "Local Hobby Shop" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16190	From: Dale Smith	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

I am glad you found my Gilbert HO Index useful, but I have to give credit where credit is due.  Those repair diagrams are all on Myflyertrains.org site and were donated by Bob Conner, an American Flyer collector, along with a lot of S gauge information.  That site is probably not a place where you would go looking for HO diagrams and that is why I provided the link.  I try not to duplicate what is already on the web, but rather provide links.   For example, if you find a given piece of equipment on the Gilbert HO index, there is usually a link to the various catalogs (on myflyertrains.org) from the different years in which it was illustrated. Also, I am always looking for new details to add to the history of the various Gilbert HO items.  As an example, there was a recent discussion on the Gilbert HO list about Gilbert providing bodies for the 1959 Tyco streamline passenger cars and the information on that issue has now been added to the website.   Please feel free to let me know about any tidbits of information you may have and maybe we can try to preserve the knowledge by adding it to the website. Dale Smith.  On 2/27/2011 8:52 AM, Richard wrote:   Jim, Thanks for steering me to the Gilbert Index. That is a great site. I am still looking for the parts I need and most likely will try to find a junker. The shoulder screw I may be able to find at a hardware store. The hardest parts to find seem to be the spacer and the motor. I'm sure I will eventually come across what I need. Richard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16191	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

Local Hobby Shop On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 1:36 AM, <ckinzer@...> wrote:   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16192	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16193	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16194	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

NIB is New In Box (but, I wouldn't always believe it when you read this on eBay). Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:07:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16195	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

Thanks, and yes, I agree! Some claims seem puffed up, to say it in a more generous way. On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   NIB is New In Box (but, I wouldn't always believe it when you read this on eBay). Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:07:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16196	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

Hi Vic,   It means "New In Box", I would be skeptical on ebay, as I'll betcha ten to one odds that they've had it out of the box, I don't even buy that line at train sales, as far as I'm concerned, once it leaves the retailer, its used merchandise!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 9:07:26 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16197	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

Hi John, I just received mine today, they are GORGEOUS!  Do you make other decals too?  VBG.   Is there any special method to using these?  Do I need to coat them, or just treat them like Microscale or something like that? By the way, it seems the Walthers car comes with genuine Kadee couplers or if not, exact copy knockoffs.  I am fairly impressed with this car.  I already removed the end and will be adding the structure in the coming weekend, then comes paint and decals.  WooHoo! Thanks very much and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:08:52 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail   It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16198	From: John H	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

Thank you Vic. These decals can be treated like any other. Some like to lay on overcoat first. I recommend Microscale Liquid decal Film thinned 15% with alcohol. It may be airbrushed but if I do it I use a flat, one inch artist brush. Just lay it on without a lot of brushing or "scrubbing" and it'll lay out flat as can be. Yes I do other decals but most of it is very limited run stuff such as the Ostuco set or is in other scales, especially O scale where the big companies do not tread. Some of the O scale stuff is already done in HO or N. I just finished a Pennsylvania set for O scale version of the same car as the Walthers gon. They are available in HO from Microscale but not O. One of the more interesting HO sets I am doing is for the Soo Line W2 crane in two lettering schemes, the early style with the large, circular "Safety First" logo and the simplified scheme applied sometime during 1968. The Tichy (I think they are the current producers of this kit) Industrial Brownhoist crane. With a little added styrene car siding and some detailing a very creditable model can be built. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I just received mine today, they are GORGEOUS! Do you make other decals too? VBG. Is there any special method to using these? Do I need to coat them, or just treat them like Microscale or something like that? > > By the way, it seems the Walthers car comes with genuine Kadee couplers or if not, exact copy knockoffs. I am fairly impressed with this car. I already removed the end and will be adding the structure in the coming weekend, then comes paint and decals. WooHoo! > > Thanks very much and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: sprinthag@... > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:08:52 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. > > > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16199	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/1/2011
Subject: Item won on eBay

If you go to item # 370486926913    Ho Vintage Die Cast PB Dummy unit , unpainted    you will see the latest engine I won for my vintage collection.       I bid on it not being a 100% sure what it is. From everything I can tell by little cast in body details it sure looks to me to be a Hobbies, Inc. PB dummy unit from 1950. It even looks like the dummy trucks are the right ones which will be an added plus. The only thing that doesn't match is seller says die cast and it should be cast Aluminum ( his judgment call ?) but that difference is minor till I get the piece in my possession to tell. Then I can be totally sure.     If it is what I think it will match the Hobbies, Inc. PA body I just won on eBay about a month ago. While a lot of people use words a little to freely I believe these could be called rare and scarce. Only made one year and not in large numbers. Most companies making cast metal PA's didn't make the PB units.    If I'm guessing wrong what it is it still will be an unknown piece. Just the kind of researching I like.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16200	From: mrncartoon	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Great Website on Vintage Model Magazines

I found a great site which has scans of old railroad and model railroad magazines that are no longer arround;  http://www.trainlife.com/ There is also a link to albums of photos sent in by others of their model trains. One that cought my eye was titled "Cars built from old kits (Ambroid, Sliver Streak, Etc.)" by Bob Hollowell and it has photos of models from some of the old (50's & 60's) kits, in various stages of "build". http://www.trainlife.com/albums/photo/view/album_id/2214/photo_id/253490  Worth a look see. Larry Miller III

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16201	From: pfpackman	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16202	From: Richard White	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Laquer thinner didn't work out too well for me!  -Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pfpackman@... Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16203	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I recall old Dio Sol being toluene/Xylene—I  used it to thin the Floquil paintrs, but the cheapest lacquer thinner from the hardware store I could find for clean-up. gj   From: Richard White Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 2:54 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Laquer thinner didn't work out too well for me!  -Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pfpackman@... Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16204	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Lacquer thinner is always a good brush cleaner and spray gun cleaner.  It works better than anything else I ever used.  I have not had to use any of the new paint but I would try lacquer thinner as a solvent and thinner before I tried anything else.  Lacquer sprays make a better finish but you must be very careful with plastics.  With plastics it is best to use a primer first.  If you use lacquer based primer, be careful not to wet the plastic but spray it in a manner to have it dry as soon as it hits the surface and use several thin coats.  If the initial coat wets the plastics and it is lacquer sensitive it will craze like eggshell and you will ruin the surface.  Experiment with some scrap items before working with your model you are painting.  Get the feel of it before doing finish work. Be sure all surfaces to be painted are clean and free of dust, grease, oil and fingerprints. Happy Railroading...  Don Staton in Va. Beach ============================================================================= On 3/2/2011 3:14 PM, pfpackman wrote:   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16205	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

:I used to hang ouit with a –n aircraft/armor modeling group—some of them found a trick withy  Floquil and styrene—they would spray Floquil directly on styrene, adjusting the spray so that the paint hit the surface wet enough to provide a smooth coat, but with a high enough pressure that dried before it could etch the surface.  And since Floquil at least used to be insoluble in its own solvent once it was dry, the method gave good results.  But always test first.  I painted some old fifties Lionel F3’s for a friend—and I’d swear that those Lionel shells wrinkled if you set a sealed bottle of Floquil on the same bench.    gj   From: Donald R. Staton Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:17 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Lacquer thinner is always a good brush cleaner and spray gun cleaner.  It works better than anything else I ever used.  I have not had to use any of the new paint but I would try lacquer thinner as a solvent and thinner before I tried anything else.  Lacquer sprays make a better finish but you must be very careful with plastics.  With plastics it is best to use a primer first.  If you use lacquer based primer, be careful not to wet the plastic but spray it in a manner to have it dry as soon as it hits the surface and use several thin coats.  If the initial coat wets the plastics and it is lacquer sensitive it will craze like eggshell and you will ruin the surface.  Experiment with some scrap items before working with your model you are painting.  Get the feel of it before doing finish work. Be sure all surfaces to be painted are clean and free of dust, grease, oil and fingerprints. Happy Railroading...  Don Staton in Va. Beach ============================================================================= On 3/2/2011 3:14 PM, pfpackman wrote:   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16206	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I used to work with a bunch of chemists and we used to use a laboratory solvent sold as "Mixed Xylenes", which seemed exactly like the old DioSol. This source has long since dried up, but a year or two ago, I picked up a gallon can of Xylene from a Tru-Value hardware store for $10 or $15 and it works fine, although it has a strong odor.  It's especially good for cleaning the spray guns after using Floquil paints.  For thinning, I mostly use some of the little DioSol I have left. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: pfpackman <pfpackman@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:19 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16207	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

For the NEW Floquil, I have been successful by thinning it with plain old Paint Thinner from Home Depot. It is an enamel based paint rather than a lacquer based paint.  For clean up, I use pain thinner, but  I followup with a  Lacquer thinner for a final bath in the airbrush.  I find the NEW Floquil a bit shiny compared to the OLD Floquil.  This is not bad if you want to put decals on, because you do not need to spray with a gloss coat. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pfpackman@... Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16208	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16209	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I just KANT TIPE... I meant PAINT THINNER. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: idioticyahoo@... Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 03:24:15 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil   Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16210	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Whew. Good, 'cause my next question concerned that lacquer bath..... > > I just KANT TIPE... > > I meant PAINT THINNER. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: idioticyahoo@... > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 03:24:15 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? > > > > For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath > > > Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I just laid a bunch of floquil down on some Blue Line cars, you guys are scaring me <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil > Whew. Good, 'cause my next question concerned that lacquer bath..... >> >> I just KANT TIPE... >> >> I meant PAINT THINNER. >> Regards, >> Vic Bitleris >> Raleigh, NC >> >> >> >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> From: idioticyahoo@... >> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 03:24:15 +0000 >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? >> >> >> >> For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner >> for a final bath >> >> > Vic Bitleris >> >> > Raleigh, NC >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16212	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Hi P.F., I simply use laquer thinner I picked up at Wal-Mart, you can get it at any Home Depot or Lowes as well, I use it to thin both laquers and enamels, works quite well...:o)   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: pfpackman <pfpackman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 3:14:06 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16213	From: Matthew	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

My experience has been the same as Vic's -- the newest Floquil paints seem to work well with paint thinner. Paint thinner doesn't have any xylene in it and that seems to be the trick. My problem is that I have a mix of old and new Floquil and keeping them apart has been a problem. I have ruined two new bottles by putting Diosol in them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > For the NEW Floquil, I have been successful by thinning it with plain old Paint Thinner from Home Depot. It is an enamel based paint rather than a lacquer based paint. For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath in the airbrush. I find the NEW Floquil a bit shiny compared to the OLD Floquil. This is not bad if you want to put decals on, because you do not need to spray with a gloss coat. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16214	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I still have a partial can of Dio-Sol and I use it to thin all my Testers Floquil with no problems.  I do also have new, unopened bottles of the old Floquil.  Unless Testers has changed the formula of Floquil in the last year, I see no problem using Dio-Sol.  I have also used Airbrush Thinner from Floquil, but that is the old Floquil and came in a Dio-Sol size can.   I would try to use Enamel Reducer (Xylol) that can be bought in a large can, at the hardware store if you are that cheap.  It should work.   I always use lacquer thinner to clean my air brush.  It is cheap and cleans very well.  You can do this and just use the Testers thinner to thin the paint.  That would save you money.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16215	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

It is truly amazing how long the OLD Floquil keeps.  I have some bottles that are about 25 years old or older and are still good.  But, it is very easy to tell the difference if you have any sense of smell at all.  The OLD Floquil has a definite lacquer smell to it.  The new stuff, pretty much smells like the familiar Testors Enamels.  The labels are also a bit different.  I still have about a half a can of the OLD Dio Sol, yep, that's right, there is an OLD version (REAL Dio Sol) and a NEW version which is no longer made.  Actually, neither are made any longer.  The NEW version can had the label on it that said Dio Sol, but was really some formulation of paint thinner for enamel paints.  That made things very confusing until Testors discontinued it.  Hence there is a LOT of confusion on what to use to thin the NEW Floquil.  I personally had problems when thinning the NEW Floquil with the OLD Dio Sol. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mattjcoleman@... Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:21:11 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil   My experience has been the same as Vic's -- the newest Floquil paints seem to work well with paint thinner. Paint thinner doesn't have any xylene in it and that seems to be the trick. My problem is that I have a mix of old and new Floquil and keeping them apart has been a problem. I have ruined two new bottles by putting Diosol in them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > For the NEW Floquil, I have been successful by thinning it with plain old Paint Thinner from Home Depot. It is an enamel based paint rather than a lacquer based paint. For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath in the airbrush. I find the NEW Floquil a bit shiny compared to the OLD Floquil. This is not bad if you want to put decals on, because you do not need to spray with a gloss coat. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16216	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: item won on eBay

Attachments : IMG_6809_4.JPG IMG_6808_3.JPG IMG_6805_2.JPG IMG_6804_1.JPG           The other day I won an item on eBay that I was hoping was a Hobbies, Inc PB . It came today and my old eyes didn't deceive me. It was the Hobbies, Inc  PB from 1950 and even had the dummy trucks with it. I had won a PA unit a few weeks ago but the B unit definitely has less wear and the body detail is really sharp.      I sent a picture of the ad along about the Hobbies, Inc PA & PB that were cast aluminum. The original kits came with couplers, horns,diaphragms,grab irons, decals and steps. I don't hold out much hope for finding these detail parts but you never know. I do hope to find a box and perhaps some paperwork.      The A unit came without any frame or power unit. It tells you ANY motor truck will fit.( I guess they mean any 6 wheel self contained power truck ) I doubt I will ever get it motorized but I am hoping by sending pictures of the dummy trucks that someone might be able to match them and they might have a set I can buy. Contact off site at jimheck@.... I would be happy to have dummy PA & PB units for my vintage collection. In fact contact me if you have any thing I have described.       Now I must start searching out  the Hobbies, Inc. 1949 E units ( A&B ) that were made from die stamped aluminum and wood pieces. Sounds like an interesting item.                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16217	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: New Oldies

Attachments : HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 2 crop copy.jpg HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 1 crop copy.jpg 4-2-2 .jpg I hope I didn't nudge out anyone in the list on these. But I'm very happy to have won some recent eBay auctions. The first is a 1959-imported Akane 4-4-0. She's about a vintage 1860's locomotive. She's suffering from a rebuildable nose dive to the floor in the past. It looks like I can rebuild the pilot and upgrade her with improved fittings, a modern motor and a almost invisable drive link between the tender and the cab. She needs the proper service lines along the engine and since she has a primitive air pump on her, she should have brakes on the tender and possibly the engine. I want to finish her with an ornate builders plate and trim between the drivers. More scale looking rods would be a good thing for her as well. I don't think she will remain a PRR locomotive due to the lack of rivets on the tender. That needs to be corrected. The cab has nice lines and really needs a detailing job. She's a nice, sound little model that has been operating on a layout without gathering noticable tire wear. I have some conflicting ideas for the cab windows, If I trim the internal weight to create an view from side to side, I'll do some visible detailing, or I'll prepare some photo-real inserts for the windows and leave the bulk of the internal weight in lace. She will gain a usable front coupler. I might put in a suitable DCC- Sound package. I've seen ones at the LHS that would fit. Next is one of the Aristo-Craft 4-2-2 Bicycles. I got one perhaps three decades ago. That was complete except for one of the foil decorations on it, and the hidden boiler mount was split and needed[s] repair. I now have a very nice duplicate in the mail, coming to me. I want to complete the detailing on one of them and make her more of a scale model. Between the two engines and tenders, that will be the one that is in more used condition. Again with a higher level of details, a much better motor, and most likely DCC-Sound and more complete lighting. [The better pair of the 4-2-2's will likely remain original.] This time I have the proper Aristo Craft box for the 4-4-2. That one is more of a 1880/1890-era locomotive. I want to pair her with 2-3 vintage parlor and business cars as would be expected of a suitable inspection train. I've managed to recently get a Binkley 65- foot [?] arch windowed Official Business car that will be a great match and I have a couple of suitable LaBelle arch window parlor and a more utility style of car to use that would be something on the order of a diner-office car. I will scan the side and end walls before I build the cars. Those scans will later be used to cnc-cut similar cars later on. those won't be duplicates as much as using the doors and windows in a rearranged manner to create other cars. Those scans will become my creation library or clip-art library to make different cars later. The steamer cab sides will go through the same scan and later cut duplicates method. It looks like I can have months of fun with these............ Thank you eBay! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16218	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies [3 Attachments]

Mike, want to share an idea re the P&R Bicycle... this was the first Aristo Craft loco I bought maybe twelve years ago, at an horrendous price... found then that it wont pull anything , with the single wobbly drive axle... despite my attempts to balance all her weight on this axle by tinkering with the spring of the pilot truck. However I found a simple way to greatly improve her tractive effort... the Aristo tender weights almost as much as the loco! ( exaggerated, sorry). So I made a silicone rubber mold from its superstructurem, and then a resin copy which weights almost nothing... so the tender wont take much of her power away. An additional advantage... have kept the Aristo tender shell as is, and have decorated the resin shell with scrolls and California Pacific Letteing, for my private line. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies

Thanks Gerold. Those are truly excellent ideas. One of the other lists, I think the RGS one, has just posted a link to some fantastic looking period tender and cab decals. You might not know of them. Here's a direct link to that page..... <http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=commerce/hds/index.htm> the separated image....... <http://www.pacificng.com/commerce/hds/img/baldwin-style-sample.gif> AH......  I see it was a posting from -our- list, earlier today....... "Pacific Coast Narrow Gauge is offering a set of Baldwin striping and lettering for period locomotives.  Check out their website: http://www.pacificng.com <http://www.pacificng.com/> .  Under "Products", click on Hoefer Design Studio for pictures or contact Craig direct at " posted by "Larry Huber" These are very nice decals! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Mar 3, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Gerold Eckl wrote: Mike, want to share an idea re the P&R Bicycle... this was the first Aristo Craft loco I bought maybe twelve years ago, at an horrendous price...   found then that it wont pull anything , with the single wobbly drive axle... despite my attempts to balance all her weight on this axle by tinkering with the spring of the pilot truck. However I found a simple way to greatly improve her tractive effort... the Aristo tender weights almost as much as the loco! ( exaggerated, sorry). So I made a silicone rubber mold from its superstructurem, and then a resin copy which weights almost nothing... so the tender wont take much of her power away. An additional advantage... have kept the Aristo tender shell as is, and have decorated the resin shell with scrolls and California Pacific Letteing, for my private line.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16220	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

----- Original Message ----- From: <corlissbs@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil >I still have a partial can of Dio-Sol and I use it to thin all my Testers > Floquil with no problems. I do also have new, unopened bottles of the > old > Floquil. Unless Testers has changed the formula of Floquil in the last > year, I see no problem using Dio-Sol. I have also used Airbrush Thinner > from > Floquil, but that is the old Floquil and came in a Dio-Sol size can. > > I would try to use Enamel Reducer (Xylol) that can be bought in a large > can, at the hardware store if you are that cheap. It should work. > > I always use lacquer thinner to clean my air brush. It is cheap and > cleans very well. You can do this and just use the Testers thinner to > thin the > paint. That would save you money. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI Is Dio-Sol even made anymore? My can shows a revision date on the label of 3/96, made by Testors Canada. The price sticker from Happy Hobby says "Diosol", but the label says "150001 Thinner and Brush Cleaner for all Floquil brand products" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16221	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Hi Don, I believe that is the NEW Dio Sol, the old is 140001, I do not believe any Dio SOl is made any longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 18:05:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   ----- Original Message ----- From: <corlissbs@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil >I still have a partial can of Dio-Sol and I use it to thin all my Testers > Floquil with no problems. I do also have new, unopened bottles of the > old > Floquil. Unless Testers has changed the formula of Floquil in the last > year, I see no problem using Dio-Sol. I have also used Airbrush Thinner > from > Floquil, but that is the old Floquil and came in a Dio-Sol size can. > > I would try to use Enamel Reducer (Xylol) that can be bought in a large > can, at the hardware store if you are that cheap. It should work. > > I always use lacquer thinner to clean my air brush. It is cheap and > cleans very well. You can do this and just use the Testers thinner to > thin the > paint. That would save you money. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI Is Dio-Sol even made anymore? My can shows a revision date on the label of 3/96, made by Testors Canada. The price sticker from Happy Hobby says "Diosol", but the label says "150001 Thinner and Brush Cleaner for all Floquil brand products" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16222	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 3/4/2011
Subject: Bowser and Suncoast Models

Hi I have a Bowser HO USRA Mountain Kitset, new in box (kit #100400)what would a current value be of this. Same for a Suncoast Models Grain Elevator Kitset (kit #3060).Brand new box never opened. Current value ? Thanks Charlie Harris New Zealand

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16223	From: PaulP	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Solvents for Floquil Paints

I want to thank all who contributed comments to my request for information on Solvents for the New Testors Floquil enamel paints. There were some of you who were particularly helpful and who had experience with the old Floquil DiSol as well as the new Floquil paints and solvents. It was also obvious from some of the conflicting answers that some people were as in the dark or confused as I was when I started out on this quest. Following leads from the group, I did some research on the internet .You really get to appreciate the internet for good information if one can wade through a lot of the irrelevant information. Based on my own experiments and research, I thought it would be worthwhile to share some of this information with this group in appreciation for all the responses to my request. Here goes. Remember these are my opinions and, and I offer them without guarantees or warrantees. To M and V, many thanks. They commented that the newer Floquil paint thins and cleans up well with paint thinner as the solvent. This is mostly mineral spirits which works for most enamel based paints. They also commented that lacquer thinner worked well as a final cleaner for their airbrush. Lacquer thinner is usually a proprietary mixture of solvents including acetone, dimethyl ketone, toluene, alcohol and petroleum distillates (mineral Spirits). It may also contain Stoddard Solvent, is also known as mineral spirits and is often called white spirits outside the USA. I also followed a lead when D mentioned a Testor solvent, 150001 "Enamel Thinner for Airbrushing." Testors modern solvent is found on the "Material Safety Data Sheet" from Testor Corporation on their website at. http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.0088240.042307.pdf The MSDS product sheet is required from Testor by the FEDs to comply with OSHA requirements for hazardous materials. . . I do not think this information can be proprietary or confidential since it is listed in an open website and available to anyone who has the tenacity to find it. Before mixing these solvents please read the SAFETY WARNINGS listed below as well as on the all labels before using any ingredients. The Testor solvent bottle label has similar warnings.. This is the solvent and brush cleaner for the new Floquil. The data sheet is for #8824 "Universal Enamel Thinner for Airbrushing" The ingredients listed in the data sheet are: VM&P Naphtha (25-30 wt%), Mineral spirits (45-50 wt%) , n-propoxy propanol (20-25 wt%), and high boiling aliphatic hydrocarbon (1-5 wt%) . The relative amounts and hazard data were found on the Testor Corp. Web Site Material Safety Data Sheet. I have not mixed up the ingredients or tried them, but mineral spirits and Naphtha are the majority of the mixture and should work. The mineral spirits are probably why the paint thinners and lacquer thinners work. I have used mineral spirits and lacquer thinners with success. The recipe for the Testor 110001 Thinner and Cleaner is given in the Testor Web Site Material Safety data sheet http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.F110001.071108.pdf These ingredients are: VM&P Naphtha 40-45 wt%, Xylene 5-10 wt% Ethyl Benzene 1-5 wt% Aromatic Hydrocarbon Solvent (High Boiling) 5-10 wt% Light Aromatic Hydrocarbon 40-45 wt% That is about as far as I can go without consulting a chemist regarding what the specific aromatic hydrocarbons could be and what the ethyl benzene and n-propoxy propanol are used for. If there is a chemist in this group that could help, perhaps they could contact me off line. Till then I'm sticking with Mineral Spirits, naphtha and lacquer thinner that I can get at the local paint store. SAFETY WARNINGS AND NOTES: You have to be very careful when using these solvents. Naphtha and Mineral spirits as well as most commercial solvents are nasty stuff. The vapors are harmful or fatal and should be used only with adequate ventilation, preferably outdoors. Do not get in your eyes; wear goggles. They should not be used without gloves and an apron and should not be inhaled or swallowed or allowed to remain on your clothing. If you experience eye watering, headache or nausea get out immediately and wash well with soap and water. These products are extremely flammable and should be kept away from flames, cigarettes, electric motors and other forms of sparks and heat sources. I assume no responsibility for any problems that might arise from anyone using this information. The ingredients for the old DiSol were also discussed on other web blogs and reported to be about 50/50 Toluene and Xylene. One site listed it as 60/40. Also both are nasty stuff. This is why the new paints do not dissolve or thin as well with the old DiSol. The old DiSol solvent and the new Floquil enamel paint thinner and cleaner appear to be partially non-compatible with 5-10% in the new vs. 40-50 % in the older recipes. Thanks Again, PF Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16224	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Good day at the show

I netted a Varney NW2 today at a show and also got a Bowser K4. I have posted both in the photos under AL2s stuff. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16225	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Re: Good day at the show

Your photo of the K-4 is labeled as an H-9. Otherwise, good finds! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: From: Askerberg <aiberg@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Good day at the show To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:55 PM   I netted a Varney NW2 today at a show and also got a Bowser K4. I have posted both in the photos under AL2s stuff. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16226	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: To much stuff ????

Attachments : IMG_6842_11.JPG IMG_6841_10.JPG IMG_6840_9.JPG IMG_6839_8.JPG IMG_6838_7.JPG          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16227	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]

Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16228	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

I have a 30 foot by 50 foot  3 story barn that you could store your stuff in. The barn is almost empty but for 2 model A frames. Just kidding but it would make for a great train layout. To bad fixed incomes don’t allow for buying more trains.   Herb     Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16229	From: Richard White	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]

Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16230	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16231	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]

Jim, I have the same issue, and keep adding levels to my layout to gain the main line run I need and want....I wish I had as good a funny reply as the ones you've gotten and will get, especially the offer to house your collection for you <G!>, but I will offer one serious crackpot brainstorm that might actually have some merit.  Assuming you want more wall space for collection display shelving, rather than more layout space...now fair warning, I've never seen this done for train displays, but it's gotten pretty common in hardware stores  and some other retail outlets I find myself in when my deep need for more tools seems to take over... Several hardware stores in town here have display shelving that's normal and typical, but they also have a second layer of display spade mounted on horizontal tracks in front of the traditional space.  wish I had a picture, hard to say in words, so here's an example....the aisle full of electrical components has a full set of shallow displays on both sides. then just about 10 inches in front, and starting about two feet up from the ground, resting on the cabinetwork that already sticks out the ten inches and is two feet high, they installed track rails on the cabinet tops that run the full length of the aisle, and are matched by overhead tracks mounted also ten inches out along the top valance over your head.   In this case, there are maybe 8 different section of electrical components displayed for sale on the back wall... Then there are three or four vertical panels that ride on these tracks, moving left and right as you push them with your hand, so that you can always see the items behind, either because they're exposed, or if you pushed one of the front panels out of they way. the items on the front panels are selected for being thinner and lighter, but they're always visible... lot a work for somebody, but maybe something as basic as cheap aluminum patio sliding glass door components could be mounted floor and overhead in front of your existing shelving, and then mount shallow shelves of home made RAILTRAX aluminum stock on both sides of the door frames, so that the door itself held a number of horizontal shelves from top to bottom, you could see thru the doors to see the shelves behind, and you could just slide a door sideways into an empty spot to be able to reach out and touch any of the engines on the back shelves... probably the lighter less precious items like cars and coaches would be a good choice for the front, and there'd have to be an easy way to secure them to the aluminum shelving, maybe little friction clips that grabbed axles --like those clips they sell for holding yard tool handles on your garage wall, but smaller... the patio door assemblies show up all the time here for free or cheap on craigs list, and aluminum drills and cuts and pop rivets together like butter, so maybe not so crazy an idea... what a great problem to have, TOO MUCH VINTAGE HO ROLLING STOCK AND ENGINES!!! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 10:58:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16232	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16233	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16234	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

I forgot to sign my rant about disposing of the collection   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16235	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16236	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Art, you're right about it being something that it's probably important for each collector to deal with in the way that suits them best. In my own case, I've made arrangements for donation of the special W&OD prototype models, and made photo and listing descriptions of everything else, including all the tools, for my survivor, spouse or children, to  use in selling it all on ebay, or in handing it over in total for their agent or some deserving charity to sell on ebay, however they choose to do it. The easiest part is that since most of it was bought on ebay, and because I saved many of those listings while the auctions were going on, so in many cases where the photo and desc. were good...all I had to do was print out the original ebay listing with photo description, and price, and fold that up and stuff it in the box with the model.  The tools I just shoved all the printouts of the listings in a drawer, they can more easily sell that sort of thing on craigslist, or all as one lot to whoever. It's a lot easier to justify basements and closets full of boxes of trains if they'll be that easy to dispose of when you've passed on and folks look at that stuffed closet and imagine all that stuff just GONE...that's when they  have the same look on their face that model railroaders have when they look at big empty basements.... all wide-eyed and grinning! Chris B. From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:37:25 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   I forgot to sign my rant about disposing of the collection   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16237	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

 I've seen at least one hobby shop with that scheme of sliding panels full of detail parts bags in front of a wall of more detail parts bags.  I think, to maximize storage, that there was only one empty space in the front panel (leading to a battle of wills of two or more are searching for parts I guess).  That works out OK to have more stuff to "search" for in that application, but seems counterproductive for a traditional "display" application to me.   The current storage could definitely be more dense.  There could be thinner shelving material and less intershelf spacing.  You only need about the space of a little more than a finger to get things on and off.  If you wanted to get insane about spacing, you could fashion some padded thin tongs and probably only have about a quarter inch air space above you talles item.   Also, you could forego the track and save vertical space that way.  To keep trucks aligned, you can have grooves in the wood spaced a flange width apart.  If doing this, the wood should be well sealed so that no moisture in the wood can harm any wheel treads (unlikely anyway, but possible maybe).   It also saves space to avoid having everything spaced for the worst case scenario.  You can have some taller shelves for tall things (like things with pantographs), and the rest for the standard height items.   Something I have thought of for myself (someday) is to have two rows on each shelf withe the upper row raised.  If the riser was a solid block in cross section, it would provide a lot of strength and allow that part of the shelf extending forward for the front row to be even thinner.  The rise only needs to be raised enough to show what care to see.  If you don't care if you see trucks, then it can be shorter.  If you want to see everything, then a little taller.  Either way the number of shelf thicknesses (which is wasted vertical display space) gets cut in half.  Standard 1x4 lumber is wide enough (3 1/2 inches) but just barely.  It's hard to see in your pictures if that is the case, but if so, your vertical spacing already seems enough that you could retrofit what you have.  Instant "doubling" of space with very little effect, if any, on depth.   For a little more depth, that idea could be extended to have three stairstepped levels, or four.   Another thing you see the tinplate guys do all the time is have more shelves below the fascia on the layout.  This also hides the storage space there.  If necessary, one or more can be made swing out if you want a lot of access to the storage there.  Or there can be a mix of shelves and either open spaces or the ubiquitous draperies.   I don't worry much about any difficulty of placing or removing things from shelves.  Unlike a display in a hobby shop, home displays can go for years (like some O tinplate I have on aluminum shelves with plexiglas) without being touched.   Chuck Kinzer    ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I have the same issue, and keep adding levels to my layout to gain the main line run I need and want....I wish I had as good a funny reply as the ones you've gotten and will get, especially the offer to house your collection for you <G!>, but I will offer one serious crackpot brainstorm that might actually have some merit.  Assuming you want more wall space for collection display shelving, rather than more layout space...now fair warning, I've never seen this done for train displays, but it's gotten pretty common in hardware stores  and some other retail outlets I find myself in when my deep need for more tools seems to take over... Several hardware stores in town here have display shelving that's normal and typical, but they also have a second layer of display spade mounted on horizontal tracks in front of the traditional space.  wish I had a picture, hard to say in words, so here's an example....the aisle full of electrical components has a full set of shallow displays on both sides. then just about 10 inches in front, and starting about two feet up from the ground, resting on the cabinetwork that already sticks out the ten inches and is two feet high, they installed track rails on the cabinet tops that run the full length of the aisle, and are matched by overhead tracks mounted also ten inches out along the top valance over your head.   In this case, there are maybe 8 different section of electrical components displayed for sale on the back wall... Then there are three or four vertical panels that ride on these tracks, moving left and right as you push them with your hand, so that you can always see the items behind, either because they're exposed, or if you pushed one of the front panels out of they way. the items on the front panels are selected for being thinner and lighter, but they're always visible... lot a work for somebody, but maybe something as basic as cheap aluminum patio sliding glass door components could be mounted floor and overhead in front of your existing shelving, and then mount shallow shelves of home made RAILTRAX aluminum stock on both sides of the door frames, so that the door itself held a number of horizontal shelves from top to bottom, you could see thru the doors to see the shelves behind, and you could just slide a door sideways into an empty spot to be able to reach out and touch any of the engines on the back shelves... probably the lighter less precious items like cars and coaches would be a good choice for the front, and there'd have to be an easy way to secure them to the aluminum shelving, maybe little friction clips that grabbed axles --like those clips they sell for holding yard tool handles on your garage wall, but smaller... the patio door assemblies show up all the time here for free or cheap on craigs list, and aluminum drills and cuts and pop rivets together like butter, so maybe not so crazy an idea... what a great problem to have, TOO MUCH VINTAGE HO ROLLING STOCK AND ENGINES!!! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 10:58:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16238	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, Funny how most people who look at collections of rare items see them only in terms of how much money they are worth. Visited a museum in New England once where there were models of sailing ships in glass cases that were, of course, scratch built many years ago. People standing nearby were reacting with a kind of polite, ho-hum attitude until a knowledgeable person working at the museum pointed out how many thousands they would be worth on the collectibles market. There was a sudden sound of ooohs and ahs, and a much closer examination of the fine details along with smudges of noses on the glass. I guess they should have classes in the appreciation of models as well as fine art and music!   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:05:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimheck@... writes: Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16239	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

RE:  "I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes."  I bet a lot of estate handlers have heard that many times.   If you children want the collection to convert it to money, you might consider arranging for someone to do that and then split the proceeds with two checks.  If each is going to try and handle that themselves, even if they were experts, they probably won't end up with the same dollar value at the end of the day.  It isn't unusual in such cases where people get what they think is an equal split of "stuff" to find out later that it wasn't as equal as they thought.  But money can be split quite evently except for arguing over an odd penny.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16240	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:22:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckinzer@... writes: RE:  "I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes."  I bet a lot of estate handlers have heard that many times.   If you children want the collection to convert it to money, you might consider arranging for someone to do that and then split the proceeds with two checks.  If each is going to try and handle that themselves, even if they were experts, they probably won't end up with the same dollar value at the end of the day.  It isn't unusual in such cases where people get what they think is an equal split of "stuff" to find out later that it wasn't as equal as they thought.  But money can be split quite evently except for arguing over an odd penny.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16241	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

I'm afraid Chuck has it right.   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:22:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckinzer@... writes: RE:  "I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes."  I bet a lot of estate handlers have heard that many times.   If you children want the collection to convert it to money, you might consider arranging for someone to do that and then split the proceeds with two checks.  If each is going to try and handle that themselves, even if they were experts, they probably won't end up with the same dollar value at the end of the day.  It isn't unusual in such cases where people get what they think is an equal split of "stuff" to find out later that it wasn't as equal as they thought.  But money can be split quite evently except for arguing over an odd penny.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16242	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Chuck,       In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN"    In other words "STAY OUT"   I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE".                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16243	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

all good tips Chuck, but the main difference between this crackpot brainstorm and the retail installation is the front shelf panels are clear glass doors, unlike the opaque retail panels.  The glass would make the shelves in back visible, and even then you would only have a door in front of every other back panel, or even one in front for every two in back. And the shelves on the doors in front wouldn't have to line up with the shelves behind them, you could even leave the middle of the sliding door clear, and put them in the upper and lower third of the sliding glass door, so as you stood in front of a panel, all between you and the shelves in front of you is clear glass. If you never take them off the shelves, this has no usefulness, but if you are a vintage collector/operator, as many are, the more commonly run engines could be in readily available panels, and the more delicate or valuable items be behind one of the glass doors, where you can see it or touch it with one push of the panel, but don't have to worry about it being as vulnerable as an open shelf collection that's meant to be handled or run. What I want for my fine don't touch pieces is a nice antique bow front china cabinet, I was all set to buy one on Craig'slist, my wife was all happy and ready to go with me to get it, when she found out I wanted to put trains in it!  end of eager approval, and back to the open shelving..<g> Chris B.   From: "ckinzer@..." <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 1:16:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????    I've seen at least one hobby shop with that scheme of sliding panels full of detail parts bags in front of a wall of more detail parts bags.  I think, to maximize storage, that there was only one empty space in the front panel (leading to a battle of wills of two or more are searching for parts I guess).  That works out OK to have more stuff to "search" for in that application, but seems counterproductive for a traditional "display" application to me.   The current storage could definitely be more dense.  There could be thinner shelving material and less intershelf spacing.  You only need about the space of a little more than a finger to get things on and off.  If you wanted to get insane about spacing, you could fashion some padded thin tongs and probably only have about a quarter inch air space above you talles item.   Also, you could forego the track and save vertical space that way.  To keep trucks aligned, you can have grooves in the wood spaced a flange width apart.  If doing this, the wood should be well sealed so that no moisture in the wood can harm any wheel treads (unlikely anyway, but possible maybe).   It also saves space to avoid having everything spaced for the worst case scenario.  You can have some taller shelves for tall things (like things with pantographs), and the rest for the standard height items.   Something I have thought of for myself (someday) is to have two rows on each shelf withe the upper row raised.  If the riser was a solid block in cross section, it would provide a lot of strength and allow that part of the shelf extending forward for the front row to be even thinner.  The rise only needs to be raised enough to show what care to see.  If you don't care if you see trucks, then it can be shorter.  If you want to see everything, then a little taller.  Either way the number of shelf thicknesses (which is wasted vertical display space) gets cut in half.  Standard 1x4 lumber is wide enough (3 1/2 inches) but just barely.  It's hard to see in your pictures if that is the case, but if so, your vertical spacing already seems enough that you could retrofit what you have.  Instant "doubling" of space with very little effect, if any, on depth.   For a little more depth, that idea could be extended to have three stairstepped levels, or four.   Another thing you see the tinplate guys do all the time is have more shelves below the fascia on the layout.  This also hides the storage space there.  If necessary, one or more can be made swing out if you want a lot of access to the storage there.  Or there can be a mix of shelves and either open spaces or the ubiquitous draperies.   I don't worry much about any difficulty of placing or removing things from shelves.  Unlike a display in a hobby shop, home displays can go for years (like some O tinplate I have on aluminum shelves with plexiglas) without being touched.   Chuck Kinzer    ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I have the same issue, and keep adding levels to my layout to gain the main line run I need and want....I wish I had as good a funny reply as the ones you've gotten and will get, especially the offer to house your collection for you <G!>, but I will offer one serious crackpot brainstorm that might actually have some merit.  Assuming you want more wall space for collection display shelving, rather than more layout space...now fair warning, I've never seen this done for train displays, but it's gotten pretty common in hardware stores  and some other retail outlets I find myself in when my deep need for more tools seems to take over... Several hardware stores in town here have display shelving that's normal and typical, but they also have a second layer of display spade mounted on horizontal tracks in front of the traditional space.  wish I had a picture, hard to say in words, so here's an example....the aisle full of electrical components has a full set of shallow displays on both sides. then just about 10 inches in front, and starting about two feet up from the ground, resting on the cabinetwork that already sticks out the ten inches and is two feet high, they installed track rails on the cabinet tops that run the full length of the aisle, and are matched by overhead tracks mounted also ten inches out along the top valance over your head.   In this case, there are maybe 8 different section of electrical components displayed for sale on the back wall... Then there are three or four vertical panels that ride on these tracks, moving left and right as you push them with your hand, so that you can always see the items behind, either because they're exposed, or if you pushed one of the front panels out of they way. the items on the front panels are selected for being thinner and lighter, but they're always visible... lot a work for somebody, but maybe something as basic as cheap aluminum patio sliding glass door components could be mounted floor and overhead in front of your existing shelving, and then mount shallow shelves of home made RAILTRAX aluminum stock on both sides of the door frames, so that the door itself held a number of horizontal shelves from top to bottom, you could see thru the doors to see the shelves behind, and you could just slide a door sideways into an empty spot to be able to reach out and touch any of the engines on the back shelves... probably the lighter less precious items like cars and coaches would be a good choice for the front, and there'd have to be an easy way to secure them to the aluminum shelving, maybe little friction clips that grabbed axles --like those clips they sell for holding yard tool handles on your garage wall, but smaller... the patio door assemblies show up all the time here for free or cheap on craigs list, and aluminum drills and cuts and pop rivets together like butter, so maybe not so crazy an idea... what a great problem to have, TOO MUCH VINTAGE HO ROLLING STOCK AND ENGINES!!! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 10:58:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16244	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, Your mention of the addition of your wife's collection reminds me of another factor--the time required by some poor soul to dispose physically of all those really wonderful things in your house. Perhaps they will lock the place up until someone can take charge of its disposal. I suspect Chuck's implication is right: It will be easiest for all involved to simply put the whole works up for auction and "dump" it all at the same time. Depends on who's got the time and running the show. I guess I've been burned too many times on well-meaning promises.   Art W       In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:30:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimheck@... writes: Chuck,       In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN"    In other words "STAY OUT"   I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE".                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16245	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Good estate sale firms are bonded professionals who do all that work for survivors, for a % of the sales revenue, and for that reason do all possible to maximize the results. Good inventory records, descriptions, photos, and estimated values are all they need to do their very best quickly and well, and Jim has all of those items well in hand. Chris B. From: luvprr@... Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:42:47 -0500 (EST) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, Your mention of the addition of your wife's collection reminds me of another factor--the time required by some poor soul to dispose physically of all those really wonderful things in your house. Perhaps they will lock the place up until someone can take charge of its disposal. I suspect Chuck's implication is right: It will be easiest for all involved to simply put the whole works up for auction and "dump" it all at the same time. Depends on who's got the time and running the show. I guess I've been burned too many times on well-meaning promises.   Art W       In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:30:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimheck@... writes: Chuck,       In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN"    In other words "STAY OUT"   I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE".                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16246	From: Glenn	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

:I built a building that size a few years ago—and I still have to keep moving thing around to get the layout built—Lots of stuff is going under the layout as I get it built.  gj   From: herb1013@... Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:29 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   I have a 30 foot by 50 foot  3 story barn that you could store your stuff in. The barn is almost empty but for 2 model A frames. Just kidding but it would make for a great train layout. To bad fixed incomes don’t allow for buying more trains.   Herb     Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16247	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, One small suggestion which will gain you a little space. I saw this done by a Lionel collector. For freight cars, why not build cubbyhole shelves with each car placed end-wise into the shelf. You gain the ability to store a lot more cars with very little invasion into the room space. Locomotives and favorite pieces could continue to be placed on normal shelving. You won't be able to view the freight cars the way you did before, but pulling one out by the coupler allows for a private viewing. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Chuck, > > In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN" In other words "STAY OUT" I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE". > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16248	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Bill,               Good suggestion except for one problem. I never collected freight cars unless they happened to be part of a set and that was for two reasons. First to many freight cars out there to collect and second I limited my collection to steam engines, diesel engines and passenger cars for space reasons never thinking I would get to the number of items I have reached. With space running out I am now even limiting what passenger cars I will keep or add to the collection.                                           Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: CinderCrusher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 5:46 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: To much stuff ????   Jim, One small suggestion which will gain you a little space. I saw this done by a Lionel collector. For freight cars, why not build cubbyhole shelves with each car placed end-wise into the shelf. You gain the ability to store a lot more cars with very little invasion into the room space. Locomotives and favorite pieces could continue to be placed on normal shelving. You won't be able to view the freight cars the way you did before, but pulling one out by the coupler allows for a private viewing. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Chuck, > > In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN" In other words "STAY OUT" I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE". > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16249	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, I understand. Sorry I can't think of another solution. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Good suggestion except for one problem. I never collected freight cars

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16250	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Bill,      My wife gave me the solution. Stop buying more trains.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: CinderCrusher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: To much stuff ????   Jim, I understand. Sorry I can't think of another solution. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Good suggestion except for one problem. I never collected freight cars

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16251	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). Frank Bongiovanni, Atty.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16252	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Just one question: any problem with using a reputable estate sale service working on a percentage of the sale total, using the collector's inventory information and only selling that which is designated to be sold, and even if no one else is available, having them pack up and ship all the rest that are inheritance and donation pieces ? Any downside? Assuming a substantial collection, good records, a reputable firm, and the simple strategy that it's worth paying a reasonable percentage of the best market value and having few worries -----compared to doing plenty of work and maybe getting 100% of a lesser total ----because whoever sells the items is not a paid professional who benefits more if each item sells for the maximum? Seems like an appropriate solution to maximizing return, minimizing hassles and 5% "buddies" and sparing survivors work and worries...any issues with estate sale firms we shoul know about? Chris B. From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:54:51 -0000 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). Frank Bongiovanni, Atty.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16253	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2225

Thanks, Steve.  The label is now fixed, I have stripped the NW2 now for a repaint. Al 2b. Re: Good day at the show Posted by: "Stephen Neubaum" computersystemrebuild@...   railwaymodeler Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:41 pm (PST) Your photo of the K-4 is labeled as an H-9. Otherwise, good finds! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Askerberg <aiberg@comcast. net> wrote: From: Askerberg <aiberg@comcast. net> Subject: [vintageHO] Good day at the show To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:55 PM   I netted a Varney NW2 today at a show and also got a Bowser K4. I have posted both in the photos under AL2s stuff. Al Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity  2 New Members  9 New Photos Visit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16254	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16255	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Hi All,   I have paid some attention to this discussion and thought I might chime in. I am young here as compared to most, being that I am only 40 and far from retirement and hopefully ever farther from the great beyond.   For me, collecting has been acquiring those items I admired as a kid and could no have and as of late...never knew existed.   In addition, as a retirement investment I do not expect this hobby to be able to pay off. My kids and wife would not have nearly the interest in dealing with selling off my collection as I would. I intend to make it as easy and lucrative as I can for them by keeping a detailed list of the items descriptions and current value, but this is tough to do completely. If you want to leave something for your kids.. don't leave them the trains unless they really want them. Find good homes for them yourself as they won't bother and why should they?  Eventually I plan to sell off most of mine while the market is still good, keeping only the really rare ones for myself.   Currently, as many here already know, I buy and sell all the time on eBay. I do it to fund the enhancement of my collection and pay for the restoration of my Mustangs and it seems to be working out fine. However, I do not expect this to always be the case in the future.  For now..its working though as I have completely paid for a full rotisserie restoration of my 1969 Mustang this way. again..another bad investment..   My wife keeps threatening to sell my entire collection for a Buy-It-Now of $1 just to be rid of them...and I believe her. She is not going to invest the time in trying to sell them off one at a time, no matter what the profit. It is not what she is interested in.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16256	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.           Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16257	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

My two cents, FWIW. Std, O ga, and S ga collectors have valued and bought trains for decadrs that were made as toys by several prominent mfgrs, including Lionel, Bing, Ives, Dorfan, Gilbert, Marx, Kusan, Marklin, etc. They collect based on the history of that mfgr, not on the history of that gauge. That hobby has a very direct connection to the antique/vintage toy collecting hobby, which has also been estabished for almost 100 years. There has never been an equivalent-level established hobby of collecting vintage scale model locomotives of any gauge, with the sole exception of live steam locomotive models. There's no established major collector interest in vintage scale locomotives in O or S ga.; despite their sharing a ga. with Lionel and AF. Lobaugh O ga. Steam loco models are an example of this, so are engines by the firm that produce 3/16" scale engine before adoption by Gilbert of that scale. There has developed in recent years a growing commerce in vintage plastic model kits of tanks, planes, etc., And even vintage slotcars from the same era are avidly collected, with mint rare models going on eBay for hundred$. But small mfgr or craftsman produced scale models made for young adults or men have never seemed to raise the level of interest that similar mass manufactured semi-scale or toylike items sold to children or young men have achieved. I think the toy connection may be key, ---if you are 40+ and have surplus cash and nostalgia, you may be ready to drop real cash on a train or toy like you got for xmas when you were ten. --- If you're 40+ and have surplus cash and like model railroading, there's a whole new universe of RTR DCC sound-equipped prototypically accurate engines out there to buy, in G, O, On30, S, HO, N, and Z! --now if you're 40+ and you're reading this, we know where your money goes, but if the market for vintage HO wasn't so obviously small compared to the toy train and modern model railroader marketplace, there wouldn't even be a reason for having this thread. We like vintage HO because we like it. That's probably the only good reason to collect it, because if we're buying old model trains to appreciate and become good investments and valuable commodities, we should be buying old toy trains instead. My 2 cents, YMMV, Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:44:31 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.           Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16258	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.           Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16259	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

I think that one reason scale stuff doesn’t have as wide a collector market is that theare is such a variable in condition---unless you hjave a virgin kit,  everything is dependent on the skills of the assembler—or what modifications were made during assembly.  Example—my samples of the Mantua Reading Pacific and consolidation were built up by Richard Stokes—who had some of his work featured in MR during WWII.  Richard favored the SP, and this was reflected in his models—the Pacific had a Vanderbilt tender, Train Indicators (“Bugboards” to the SP crews)and other western features.  The Consol has the stock tender modified with an oil bunker. Definitely  not complete examples of how Mantua intended.  Quality of assembly can also be a factor.  gj     From: Chris B Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:32 AM To: Vint Ho Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   My two cents, FWIW. Std, O ga, and S ga collectors have valued and bought trains for decadrs that were made as toys by several prominent mfgrs, including Lionel, Bing, Ives, Dorfan, Gilbert, Marx, Kusan, Marklin, etc. They collect based on the history of that mfgr, not on the history of that gauge. That hobby has a very direct connection to the antique/vintage toy collecting hobby, which has also been estabished for almost 100 years. There has never been an equivalent-level established hobby of collecting vintage scale model locomotives of any gauge, with the sole exception of live steam locomotive models. There's no established major collector interest in vintage scale locomotives in O or S ga.; despite their sharing a ga. with Lionel and AF. Lobaugh O ga. Steam loco models are an example of this, so are engines by the firm that produce 3/16" scale engine before adoption by Gilbert of that scale. There has developed in recent years a growing commerce in vintage plastic model kits of tanks, planes, etc., And even vintage slotcars from the same era are avidly collected, with mint rare models going on eBay for hundred$. But small mfgr or craftsman produced scale models made for young adults or men have never seemed to raise the level of interest that similar mass manufactured semi-scale or toylike items sold to children or young men have achieved. I think the toy connection may be key, ---if you are 40+ and have surplus cash and nostalgia, you may be ready to drop real cash on a train or toy like you got for xmas when you were ten. --- If you're 40+ and have surplus cash and like model railroading, there's a whole new universe of RTR DCC sound-equipped prototypically accurate engines out there to buy, in G, O, On30, S, HO, N, and Z! --now if you're 40+ and you're reading this, we know where your money goes, but if the market for vintage HO wasn't so obviously small compared to the toy train and modern model railroader marketplace, there wouldn't even be a reason for having this thread. We like vintage HO because we like it. That's probably the only good reason to collect it, because if we're buying old model trains to appreciate and become good investments and valuable commodities, we should be buying old toy trains instead. My 2 cents, YMMV, Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:44:31 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16260	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16261	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Glen,        I congratulate and commend you on your efforts. You are a better man then me. You must be financially well off to be able to do all that.   However I think this is getting way off track ( pun intended) and should get back to HO trains.                                                                               Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16262	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

No—not really—I am “Gainfully Unemployed”  (retired) but don’t really have anyone I want to leave things to—and as far as I know I can’t take it with me---Presently I am beginning to thin out my collections (accumulations??) to what has significance to me—things may start showing up on the Vintage HO and other groups –I think mainly as I see inquiries about particular items--   gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 12:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Glen,        I congratulate and commend you on your efforts. You are a better man then me. You must be financially well off to be able to do all that.   However I think this is getting way off track ( pun intended) and should get back to HO trains.                                                                              Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16263	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

And Glenn, your situation applies not just to those without heirs, but also to those who have no one who could be tasked with dealing with a collection... Chris B. From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:35:10 -0800 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   No—not really—I am “Gainfully Unemployed”  (retired) but don’t really have anyone I want to leave things to—and as far as I know I can’t take it with me---Presently I am beginning to thin out my collections (accumulations??) to what has significance to me—things may start showing up on the Vintage HO and other groups –I think mainly as I see inquiries about particular items--   gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 12:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Glen,        I congratulate and commend you on your efforts. You are a better man then me. You must be financially well off to be able to do all that.   However I think this is getting way off track ( pun intended) and should get back to HO trains.                                                                              Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16264	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Item you might decide to part with

Glenn,       If and when you decide to part with certain items and one would happen to be a Sampson powered Aluminum rail car known as "The Silver Bullet"  ( 1949 or 1950 version ) that looks like an upside down old bath tub something like the Zephyr let me know before you put it up for sale. This way I inquired first.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16265	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with

Who says this lengthy discussion of morbid futures and estate handling doesn't have a silver Vintage HO lining??! LOL! From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:05:14 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Item you might decide to part with   Glenn,       If and when you decide to part with certain items and one would happen to be a Sampson powered Aluminum rail car known as "The Silver Bullet"  ( 1949 or 1950 version ) that looks like an upside down old bath tub something like the Zephyr let me know before you put it up for sale. This way I inquired first.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16266	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with

Sorry—I don’t have one—I remember wanting one about 60 years ago—(I’m 69 now—)  byut never  got one.Such things were financed by mowing neighbors’ lawns, and caring for yards when they were away.  Local hobby shops didn’t carry it and I wound up  buying a John English.  Almost all my HO from those days left when I started college—I was in a long metamorphosis into O Scale, via the trolley route.When the Army had me at Walter Reed in the mid-sixties I met  John Armstrong and je pushed me the rest of the way into O.  Since then I have occasionally gotten HO items out of nostalgia—which accounts for all the MDC and Mantua equipment I now have—As I sort those for condition I will list the excess for sale.  along the way I have done clinics for PCR/NMRA—such as for their 50th anniversary in 1994.  That flushed out some unbuilt kits, including a 1948 MDC 0-6-0 switcher.   glenn   From: Chris B Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 3:14 PM To: Vint Ho Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Item you might decide to part with   Who says this lengthy discussion of morbid futures and estate handling doesn't have a silver Vintage HO lining??! LOL! From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:05:14 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Item you might decide to part with     Glenn,       If and when you decide to part with certain items and one would happen to be a Sampson powered Aluminum rail car known as "The Silver Bullet"  ( 1949 or 1950 version ) that looks like an upside down old bath tub something like the Zephyr let me know before you put it up for sale. This way I inquired first.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16267	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion

Yes, this is an unpleasant discussion, but, unfortunately, necessary. To answer your question, Chris, if you or your heirs can find someone reputable who's knowledgeable in this field, and if they are prepared to pay a fee (see my comments about time vs. money)then that's a solution. And one thing I should have been very specific about in my prior note was that you should talk to a tax expert (a real one)about gifting items. The final comment I'll make (don't hold me to that!!)is that all the guys who have commented have different situations, different heir issues, and different estate tax issues. I still stand by my main points which is to do an inventory (and Excel makes this easy, and valuations can be changed; if I can do excel anybody can do Excel)and have the conversation. Whether it's with probable survivors, a local org., or just someone you trust to make sure things get handled. Unless you want your Varney Yellowstone to end up in the dumpster. Frank Bongiovanni --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chris B" <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > Just one question: any problem with using a reputable estate sale service working on a percentage of the sale total, using the collector's inventory information and only selling that which is designated to be sold, and even if no one else is available, having them pack up and ship all the rest that are inheritance and donation pieces ? > Any downside? Assuming a substantial collection, good records, a reputable firm, and the simple strategy that it's worth paying a reasonable percentage of the best market value and having few worries -----compared to doing plenty of work and maybe getting 100% of a lesser total ----because whoever sells the items is not a paid professional who benefits more if each item sells for the maximum? > Seems like an appropriate solution to maximizing return, minimizing hassles and 5% "buddies" and sparing survivors work and worries...any issues with estate sale firms we shoul know about? > Chris B. > -----Original Message----- > From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> > Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:54:51 > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff?? > > I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: > > Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). > > To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. > > Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. > > Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. > > Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). > > Frank Bongiovanni, Atty. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16268	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Walthers OO Cars?

Group, I am into American OO as well as HO and converting prewar and early postwar 2 rail O scale to 3 rail operation. With my American OO, I put HO trucks underneath and run them in dedicated trains on my HO layout. I noticed earlier today, that some Walthers 1940s soft metal cars, the 40' flatcar and 40' outside braced gondola, at least, are closer width-wise to OO than HO. I can't find any reference to how wide a real flat or outside gondola should be, but they are over 10 scale feet wide, which is how wide most newer rolling stock maxes out at. They are perhaps slightly over 1/8" wider than other cars. I would assume (A dangerous word there!), that in the late prewar era with Scale-Craft doing fairly well in American OO and Lionel throwing their hat into the OO ring, that there were companies that made cars that could go either way easily? Surely it was anyone's game, if OO or HO would come out as the dominant scale? It had me wondering if anyone has any light they could shed on it? Perhaps Walthers was "hedging their bets" by making some cars a little wider? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16269	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

Steve,   Go to    www.americanOO.blogspot.com   which is moderated by John Erickson. I think you will find tons of information about OO like Scalecraft, Lionel and Nason but also HO items converted to OO and vice versa including passenger cars and freight cars.  After reading all the information you might want to contact john at jqericson@...  Tell him Jim H the guy that sold him the Nason Hudson said to contact him. Hope this helps.                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers OO Cars?   Group, I am into American OO as well as HO and converting prewar and early postwar 2 rail O scale to 3 rail operation. With my American OO, I put HO trucks underneath and run them in dedicated trains on my HO layout. I noticed earlier today, that some Walthers 1940s soft metal cars, the 40' flatcar and 40' outside braced gondola, at least, are closer width-wise to OO than HO. I can't find any reference to how wide a real flat or outside gondola should be, but they are over 10 scale feet wide, which is how wide most newer rolling stock maxes out at. They are perhaps slightly over 1/8" wider than other cars. I would assume (A dangerous word there!), that in the late prewar era with Scale-Craft doing fairly well in American OO and Lionel throwing their hat into the OO ring, that there were companies that made cars that could go either way easily? Surely it was anyone's game, if OO or HO would come out as the dominant scale? It had me wondering if anyone has any light they could shed on it? Perhaps Walthers was "hedging their bets" by making some cars a little wider? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16270	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

Jim, I am very familiar with that site, having left some comments here and there, even. I was just on it, even, and while I did find some interesting info on Mantua making OO track and a Belle of the Eighties, haven't found anything on Walthers. Interesting thing about converting American OO to HO operation, is that if you find the earlier, WWI era design boxcars, such as cars patterned off of USRA blueprints, they are smaller, and will blend well with HO. I just finished one such boxcar. I have also become aware that Picard Novelty, produced three lines of carbodies: O, OO and HO. I think all mine are either O or HO... Thanks, Jim, and pre-emptive thanks to anyone else who can feed my curiousity. -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 3/7/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers OO Cars? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 8:43 PM   Steve,   Go to    www.americanOO.blogspot.com   which is moderated by John Erickson. I think you will find tons of information about OO like Scalecraft, Lionel and Nason but also HO items converted to OO and vice versa including passenger cars and freight cars.  After reading all the information you might want to contact john at jqericson@...  Tell him Jim H the guy that sold him the Nason Hudson said to contact him. Hope this helps.                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers OO Cars?   Group, I am into American OO as well as HO and converting prewar and early postwar 2 rail O scale to 3 rail operation. With my American OO, I put HO trucks underneath and run them in dedicated trains on my HO layout. I noticed earlier today, that some Walthers 1940s soft metal cars, the 40' flatcar and 40' outside braced gondola, at least, are closer width-wise to OO than HO. I can't find any reference to how wide a real flat or outside gondola should be, but they are over 10 scale feet wide, which is how wide most newer rolling stock maxes out at. They are perhaps slightly over 1/8" wider than other cars. I would assume (A dangerous word there!), that in the late prewar era with Scale-Craft doing fairly well in American OO and Lionel throwing their hat into the OO ring, that there were companies that made cars that could go either way easily? Surely it was anyone's game, if OO or HO would come out as the dominant scale? It had me wondering if anyone has any light they could shed on it? Perhaps Walthers was "hedging their bets" by making some cars a little wider? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16271	From: Chris B	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion

Frank wrote: "To answer your question, Chris, if you or your heirs can find someone reputable who's knowledgeable in this field, and if they are prepared to pay a fee (see my comments about time vs. money )then that's a solution." Thanks, for your reply, but while you've covered almost every other aspect of this whole issue in your presentations and in your postings, I am not  asking about "finding a reputable someone who's knowledgeable in this field"....that's easy to say and hard to do. The single question I'm asking about is whether your experience leads you to know about any issues with using an actual, established estate sale firm.  Such firms are bonded full-time organized firms that handle the disposition of estate goods as their primary line of business.   They are common in urban areas, and even in rural areas, they've existed for over a century, busy with the disposal of farm estates and goods. I have no connection of any kind with any of them, but I would be surprised at this discussion's breadth if they are not at least mentioned or included. They are not (and don't have to be) expert in the details of every category of collectibles; that's where a detailed inventory with descriptions and estimated values is essential; but they are expert and experienced in the details of getting the highest return from the sale of an estate's goods, since they operate on a flat fee plus a negotiated percentage of the gross total of the estate goods sale. I'm 59 and have seen in recent years many  such firms conduct online estate and collection disposal auctions of model railroad, antique toy, and other categories of collectibles that are similar to the ongoing online auctions conducted by established auction houses.   All of these are totally disconnected from eBay and similar sites, and are conducted with advance availability of detailed item catalogs that often give the estimated value of each item. Knowledgeable dealers follow the sites of these estate sale and standard auction houses, and they do competitively bid up the prices of most items to the equivalent wholesale value. Bidders register in advance, auctions are conducted for a specific period of time, and all aspects of the sales are public and transparent. For those without relatives or associates willing and able to do the massive work required to dispose of a major collection, and I submit that would describe many major collectors, thisis one way to ensure the work is done and the collection converted into funds without the risk of firesale prices or unrealistic valuations. The wide reach of such sales and the competition from such dealers does ensure the collection brings approximately its wholesale value, and sometimes more. The price paid by the estate or heirs for this service is a fair fee for all of the work done by the firms, where the heirs only have to provide the firm with the detailed inventory with estimated valuation records and access to the collection, that's it, the estate sale firm does the rest, as they do in all of their contracted sales. That's all they do, it's their only business, they do it 52 weeks a year, and the good ones are widely appreciated for their efficiency and honest dealings.  The bad ones don't get work and don't last. It's not a problem of finding one, just google estate sales, or look in your local yellow pages, and only consider a firm that can show it's lasted for decades. Or look onliine for auctions f model railroad collections at sites other than eBay. For those with smaller collections, or plenty of interested active energetic heirs, this is not relevant information. But for those with major collections that have no heirs or want to spare their families the work and ensure the return is not damaged by ignorance or nefarious arrangements, it's an option they should probably know about. Chris B. From: bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:28:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion   Yes, this is an unpleasant discussion, but, unfortunately, necessary. To answer your question, Chris, if you or your heirs can find someone reputable who's knowledgeable in this field, and if they are prepared to pay a fee (see my comments about time vs. money)then that's a solution. And one thing I should have been very specific about in my prior note was that you should talk to a tax expert (a real one)about gifting items. The final comment I'll make (don't hold me to that!!)is that all the guys who have commented have different situations, different heir issues, and different estate tax issues. I still stand by my main points which is to do an inventory (and Excel makes this easy, and valuations can be changed; if I can do excel anybody can do Excel)and have the conversation. Whether it's with probable survivors, a local org., or just someone you trust to make sure things get handled. Unless you want your Varney Yellowstone to end up in the dumpster. Frank Bongiovanni --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chris B" <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > Just one question: any problem with using a reputable estate sale service working on a percentage of the sale total, using the collector's inventory information and only selling that which is designated to be sold, and even if no one else is available, having them pack up and ship all the rest that are inheritance and donation pieces ? > Any downside? Assuming a substantial collection, good records, a reputable firm, and the simple strategy that it's worth paying a reasonable percentage of the best market value and having few worries -----compared to doing plenty of work and maybe getting 100% of a lesser total ----because whoever sells the items is not a paid professional who benefits more if each item sells for the maximum? > Seems like an appropriate solution to maximizing return, minimizing hassles and 5% "buddies" and sparing survivors work and worries...any issues with estate sale firms we shoul know about? > Chris B. > -----Original Message----- > From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> > Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:54:51 > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff?? > > I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: > > Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). > > To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. > > Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. > > Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. > > Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). > > Frank Bongiovanni, Atty. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16272	From: Matthew	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the big "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more often. I am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us older collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as needed, thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16273	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Call it Vintage HOer's? On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote:   I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the big "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more often. I am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us older collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as needed, thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. Matt Coleman -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16274	From: Charles	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time on regular groups. If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are those who already "get it" anyway. This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about this before they themselves head off to oblivion. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Call it Vintage HOer's? > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the big > > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more often. I > > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us older > > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as needed, > > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? > > > > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16275	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16276	From: Dale Smith	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Even more perplexing is the issue of how to pass on our "web assets."  I started the Gilberthotrains group on Yahoo, because I saw what happened to another group called Gilbert HO Collectors.   The last real messages seemed to indicate that the moderator was having health problems, then his email started bouncing and the group became infested with sleazy spammers and exists in that state to this day.   I can't be sure, but I think he may have passed away.   For this reason I think it is important that every Yahoo group have at least two moderators to ward off this sort of a fate and I made sure my group did have two moderators. An even bigger problem is websites.  I run two, Gilbertho.org and Americanflyerdisplays.org.  They both involved considerable work to build and represent a lot of contributions by a lot of collectors.  I would hate to see them disappear when I do, but finding someone to be a backup, just in case, is a little more difficult because the person would need to know how to build and run a website.   I will figure it out, but it is something I have been thinking about.   I hope to be around for another 20 or so years, but you never know. Dale Smith On 3/8/2011 4:00 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16277	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

We do have another moderator here should my fast track lifestyle catch up with me (yeah sure!). The idea about websites is true, there's a great (and I can't think of the name) website devoted just to very small layouts that's going through that right now. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions > Even more perplexing is the issue of how to pass on our "web assets." I > started the Gilberthotrains group on Yahoo, because I saw what happened > to another group called Gilbert HO Collectors. The last real messages > seemed to indicate that the moderator was having health problems, then > his email started bouncing and the group became infested with sleazy > spammers and exists in that state to this day. I can't be sure, but I > think he may have passed away. For this reason I think it is important > that every Yahoo group have at least two moderators to ward off this > sort of a fate and I made sure my group did have two moderators. > > An even bigger problem is websites. I run two, Gilbertho.org and > Americanflyerdisplays.org. They both involved considerable work to > build and represent a lot of contributions by a lot of collectors. I > would hate to see them disappear when I do, but finding someone to be a > backup, just in case, is a little more difficult because the person > would need to know how to build and run a website. I will figure it > out, but it is something I have been thinking about. I hope to be > around for another 20 or so years, but you never know. > > Dale Smith > > On 3/8/2011 4:00 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: >> >> Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't >> have to >> concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive >> collections of >> HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models >> disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried >> with no >> heirs) died in their 40's. >> >> I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think >> the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that >> will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles" <ckinzer@... <mailto:ckinzer%40att.net>> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate >> discussions >> >> >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time >> to time >> >on regular groups. >> > >> > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would >> join are >> > those who already "get it" anyway. >> > >> > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious >> about >> > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. >> > >> > Chuck Kinzer >> > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed >> the >> >> > big >> >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> >> > often. I >> >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> >> > older >> >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> >> > needed, >> >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> >> > >> >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> >> > >> >> > Matt Coleman >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Regards, >> >> Walter >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16278	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

I think we should leave things "as is." There's bound to be overlap because Estates invariably involve Vintage. Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > We do have another moderator here should my fast track lifestyle catch up > with me (yeah sure!). > > The idea about websites is true, there's a great (and I can't think of the > name) website devoted just to very small layouts that's going through that > right now. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate > discussions > > > > Even more perplexing is the issue of how to pass on our "web assets." I > > started the Gilberthotrains group on Yahoo, because I saw what happened > > to another group called Gilbert HO Collectors. The last real messages > > seemed to indicate that the moderator was having health problems, then > > his email started bouncing and the group became infested with sleazy > > spammers and exists in that state to this day. I can't be sure, but I > > think he may have passed away. For this reason I think it is important > > that every Yahoo group have at least two moderators to ward off this > > sort of a fate and I made sure my group did have two moderators. > > > > An even bigger problem is websites. I run two, Gilbertho.org and > > Americanflyerdisplays.org. They both involved considerable work to > > build and represent a lot of contributions by a lot of collectors. I > > would hate to see them disappear when I do, but finding someone to be a > > backup, just in case, is a little more difficult because the person > > would need to know how to build and run a website. I will figure it > > out, but it is something I have been thinking about. I hope to be > > around for another 20 or so years, but you never know. > > > > Dale Smith > > > > On 3/8/2011 4:00 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > >> > >> Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't > >> have to > >> concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive > >> collections of > >> HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models > >> disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried > >> with no > >> heirs) died in their 40's. > >> > >> I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think > >> the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that > >> will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. > >> > >> Don > >> > >> Don Dellmann > >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> Owner > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Charles" <ckinzer@... <mailto:ckinzer%40att.net>> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate > >> discussions > >> > >> >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time > >> to time > >> >on regular groups. > >> > > >> > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would > >> join are > >> > those who already "get it" anyway. > >> > > >> > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious > >> about > >> > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > >> > > >> > Chuck Kinzer > >> > > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@> > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed > >> the > >> >> > big > >> >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more > >> >> > often. I > >> >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us > >> >> > older > >> >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as > >> >> > needed, > >> >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? > >> >> > > >> >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. > >> >> > > >> >> > Matt Coleman > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Regards, > >> >> Walter > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16279	From: Matthew	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Don, It was Carl Arendt who just passed away. And thanks to all for the thoughts and comments on the estate planning group issue. I agree, probably best to just let it surface from time to time on this group since it sounds like we all understand. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > We do have another moderator here should my fast track lifestyle catch up > with me (yeah sure!). > > The idea about websites is true, there's a great (and I can't think of the > name) website devoted just to very small layouts that's going through that > right now. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16280	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Well stated Don!   I know I have amassed some great pieces of my own and have just been too busy to sit down and tabulate what I have and what tey are worth. This topic has been a good reminder to do that and being centered around collecting vintage HO, I think it falls right in line with this groups objectives....At least it does for me.   I think Jim H has a good method we could all use to follow... He has all his items of value displayed & labeled with maker and value. In addition, he has made his family aware of what they are worth.   I think for me.. I intend to make my kids aware of what I am leaving them and what they are worth. I will, hopefully by then have a detailed list of everything, with pictures and descriptions. They have already seen how lucrative selling of HO trains on sites like eBay (or the like) is. I think I may just leave it up to them if they would like to part out my collection that way and maximize their return. Ultimately, I want the money to go to them and I want the pieces to go to a good home.   Personally, I think that auction houses are way over priced, but then again, my collection is only worth peanuts compared to some out there...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:00:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16281	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Gentlemen, It appears that I started something when I replied to Jim's somewhat rhetorical question as to whether his collection is too large--in response to his wife's comments-- and showed us some photos of it. The main thrust of my comments at the time was to consider the problems of those "left behind" who have to deal with disposing of whatever you collect--vintage HO, household items, furniture, antique knitting needles, whatever. The fact that you may carefully label your items and give them a value may have little to do with the actual outcome and difficulty (and it will be a difficulty) of unloading all your stuff. What will truly affect the destiny of the items and value is not so much the value you perceive them to have as the value they will have to whomever has to locate an acceptable buyer and possibly prepare the lot for sale or disposal in some other way. Even if you think you have someone foaming at the mouth and eagerly awaiting your demise in order to get their hands on your stuff the best you can really ever do is identify the items, indicate how much money you originally paid for all those things, and hope it all doesn't get dumped for pennies on the dollar (or worse) by perhaps a loving person who feels guilty about it but has other more pressing things to do with their life at the time (although the more you value it, the more guilt they will feel of course). In any case they won't be happy to have the responsibility dumped in their lap. You'd be surprised at the anger that will be part of the emotions your passing will bring! I know of what I speak, but what the hell, you won't know anything about it anyway!   So endeth the lesson for today. Perhaps it's time--as someone indicated-- to move on to more pleasant things. . . .   Art W   In a message dated 3/9/2011 10:57:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, a69mustang4me@... writes: Well stated Don!   I know I have amassed some great pieces of my own and have just been too busy to sit down and tabulate what I have and what tey are worth. This topic has been a good reminder to do that and being centered around collecting vintage HO, I think it falls right in line with this groups objectives....At least it does for me.   I think Jim H has a good method we could all use to follow... He has all his items of value displayed & labeled with maker and value. In addition, he has made his family aware of what they are worth.   I think for me.. I intend to make my kids aware of what I am leaving them and what they are worth. I will, hopefully by then have a detailed list of everything, with pictures and descriptions. They have already seen how lucrative selling of HO trains on sites like eBay (or the like) is. I think I may just leave it up to them if they would like to part out my collection that way and maximize their return. Ultimately, I want the money to go to them and I want the pieces to go to a good home.   Personally, I think that auction houses are way over priced, but then again, my collection is only worth peanuts compared to some out there...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:00:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16282	From: Glenn	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

having things properly identified is important.  Wnen one friend passed away his family started stuffing  traiins in boxes that seemed logical.  A year or two later his son asked me to dispose of several brass locos—and asked me if there was anything I wanted.  I mentioned a  brass SP cab forwars that I had repaired –couldn’t find it anywhere—found the tender, and a Rivarossi cab forward-someone got a real deal at the Coast Div Auction in the Rivarossi box!~  gj   From: luvprr@... Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:34 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Gentlemen, It appears that I started something when I replied to Jim's somewhat rhetorical question as to whether his collection is too large--in response to his wife's comments-- and showed us some photos of it. The main thrust of my comments at the time was to consider the problems of those "left behind" who have to deal with disposing of whatever you collect--vintage HO, household items, furniture, antique knitting needles, whatever. The fact that you may carefully label your items and give them a value may have little to do with the actual outcome and difficulty (and it will be a difficulty) of unloading all your stuff. What will truly affect the destiny of the items and value is not so much the value you perceive them to have as the value they will have to whomever has to locate an acceptable buyer and possibly prepare the lot for sale or disposal in some other way. Even if you think you have someone foaming at the mouth and eagerly awaiting your demise in order to get their hands on your stuff the best you can really ever do is identify the items, indicate how much money you originally paid for all those things, and hope it all doesn't get dumped for pennies on the dollar (or worse) by perhaps a loving person who feels guilty about it but has other more pressing things to do with their life at the time (although the more you value it, the more guilt they will feel of course). In any case they won't be happy to have the responsibility dumped in their lap. You'd be surprised at the anger that will be part of the emotions your passing will bring! I know of what I speak, but what the hell, you won't know anything about it anyway!   So endeth the lesson for today. Perhaps it's time--as someone indicated-- to move on to more pleasant things. . . .   Art W   In a message dated 3/9/2011 10:57:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, a69mustang4me@... writes: Well stated Don!   I know I have amassed some great pieces of my own and have just been too busy to sit down and tabulate what I have and what tey are worth. This topic has been a good reminder to do that and being centered around collecting vintage HO, I think it falls right in line with this groups objectives....At least it does for me.   I think Jim H has a good method we could all use to follow... He has all his items of value displayed & labeled with maker and value. In addition, he has made his family aware of what they are worth.   I think for me.. I intend to make my kids aware of what I am leaving them and what they are worth. I will, hopefully by then have a detailed list of everything, with pictures and descriptions. They have already seen how lucrative selling of HO trains on sites like eBay (or the like) is. I think I may just leave it up to them if they would like to part out my collection that way and maximize their return. Ultimately, I want the money to go to them and I want the pieces to go to a good home.   Personally, I think that auction houses are way over priced, but then again, my collection is only worth peanuts compared to some out there...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!     From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:00:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <mailto:ckinzer%40att.net> To: <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16283	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Ident

Picked up a handful of cars today. Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. I have no idea where to start looking. Trying to find the camera.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16284	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ident > Picked up a handful of cars today. > Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. > The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > I have no idea where to start looking. > > Trying to find the camera. Sounds like the Mainline 1 1/2 door auto car; Upper left hand corner of the page http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinformation/mainlinelist1966pg1.jpg; Mainline apparently used their standard outside braced boxcar sheet with a special supplement for the 50' car that shows the "3 piece" roof if that's what you're tiling about. http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg2.jpg http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainline50aurtoboxsupplement.jpgDonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Fw: [vintageHO] Ident

Outlook express mooshed the last link together with my signature, let's try again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ident > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Ident > > >> Picked up a handful of cars today. >> Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. >> But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door >> arrangement. >> The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. >> The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. >> I have no idea where to start looking. >> >> Trying to find the camera. > > Sounds like the Mainline 1 1/2 door auto car; Upper left hand corner of > the > page > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinformation/mainlinelist1966pg1.jpg; > > Mainline apparently used their standard outside braced boxcar sheet with a > special supplement for the 50' car that shows the "3 piece" roof if that's > what you're tiling about. > > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg1.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg2.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainline50aurtoboxsupplement.jpg Don don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16286	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Close. Closer than anything else, that's for sure. The roof is wrong, though. The top is three pieces, but while the Mainline is split along the roofwalk, this one is made up of three full roof sections, you can see the parting line next to roof ribs at the outere edges of the door. I am beginning to think "scratchbuilt". > > > Picked up a handful of cars today. > > Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > > But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. > > The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > > The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > > I have no idea where to start looking. > > > > Trying to find the camera. > > Sounds like the Mainline 1 1/2 door auto car; Upper left hand corner of the > page > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinformation/mainlinelist1966pg1.jpg; > > Mainline apparently used their standard outside braced boxcar sheet with a > special supplement for the 50' car that shows the "3 piece" roof if that's > what you're tiling about. > > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg1.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg2.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainline50aurtoboxsupplement.jpgDonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16287	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Parts

I need a couple of Athearn metal kit parts. Just two. One is an end for a Swift Reefer A-409. Have one missing. The other is an end platform (one) for a boxcar, A-125, or just an A-120 series. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16288	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Dave, While I don't know how the roof was constructed, Northeastern Scale Models, Inc. produced a 50' outside braced 1 1/2 door auto box car -- their catalog number -- #B - 3 (early ' 70's). It came with Southern RR decals, but your modeler could have used any decals in place of these (if your car is decalled). Walthers' catalog number was #(520) 203 (later '70's). Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16289	From: Richard White	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Guys- On the subject of 50-ft. door-and-a-half boxcars: around 1964 I bought from my LHS a ready-made, painted, (I don't remember if it was lettered) boxcar of that type, minus trucks and couplers. It was of all-wood construction, similar to an Ambroid or Northeastern model, and it was very well made.  I seem to recall that this line of cars was reviewed in Model Railroader and that they were assembled by physically or mentally disabled persons. Does anyone recall these cars?  Regards- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:21:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ident   Dave, While I don't know how the roof was constructed, Northeastern Scale Models, Inc. produced a 50' outside braced 1 1/2 door auto box car -- their catalog number -- #B - 3 (early ' 70's). It came with Southern RR decals, but your modeler could have used any decals in place of these (if your car is decalled). Walthers' catalog number was #(520) 203 (later '70's). Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16290	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET MARCH 13th CEDARBURG, WI

Just a reminder that the METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH annual railroad show and swap meet is on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train layout on display. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your time and any assistance James Bartelt Show Chairman 262-284-5876 jimbartelt@... www.metrorrclub.org

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16291	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Sounds like possibly "Pacific Traction" ? (doing this from memory). Would have been early 1960's as I recall. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 6:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ident Guys- On the subject of 50-ft. door-and-a-half boxcars: around 1964 I bought from my LHS a ready-made, painted, (I don't remember if it was lettered) boxcar of that type, minus trucks and couplers. It was of all-wood construction, similar to an Ambroid or Northeastern model, and it was very well made. I seem to recall that this line of cars was reviewed in Model Railroader and that they were assembled by physically or mentally disabled persons. Does anyone recall these cars? Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16292	From: Ed	Date: 3/12/2011
Subject: Valuing your train stuff.

Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16293	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16294	From: Chris B	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16295	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

On 3/13/2011 11:16 AM, Sean Naylor wrote: > > > My wife's solution: > > Sell it ALL on eBay: > > Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Personally I'm leaning heavily toward leaving it to the NMRA's Howell Day Museum. Anything of interest for use in the museum they can keep, the rest can be auctioned at NMRA events for the benefit of the museum or NMRA. -- Rick Jones "I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior." - Hippolyte Taine

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16296	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments]

Attachments : For anyone interested in RR modeling. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jim Six <jamessix@...> Date: Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM Subject: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments] To: RPM-forum@yahoogroups.com, NMRA_Michiana_Division@yahoogroups.com, CHESSIEmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NICKELPLATEROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com, conrailmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NYC-Modeler@yahoogroups.com   [Attachment(s) from Jim Six included below]   Many people have contacted us with questions about the location of the 2011 GLMRS. The 2011 GLMRS will be held at the National New York Central RR Museum in downtown Elkhart. Attached are five photos provided by Jason Powers that show what the museum is like and its general location.   As you can see, the former NYC mainline, now Norfolk Southern, runs right alongside the museum. Directly across the tracks is the Amtrak station. The downtown is right there.   The 2011 GLMRS will be held in the museum and in the Amtrak station, which is part of the city-owned museum. We have the entire upper level of the station along with the entire museum. Lots of room. Lots of great things to do and see, and a very large number of trains to watch and photograph. The museum and Amtrak depot are right at the east end of the large NS Elkhart Yard.   We hope you will mark the weekend of April 15th and 16th on your calendar and come on out to Elkhart and enjoy a great weekend of model railroading, learning, sharing, train watching, and photography.                             -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16297	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16298	From: jbark76	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

I am starting a new layout with one loop of OO at the base, then it will be primarily HO. What are you using for an engine for the OO cars? The American Flyer diecast flat car looks convincing to me for OO. I have thought about shortening it a bit to make it 40' in OO. (It's a 50' HO car.) I'm also thinking about making new sides for it, but the deck is just as wide as a Scalecraft flatcar. What are you doing with the OO trucks? -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16299	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Sean, I'm assuming all knew I spoke in jest, but I am glad to hear it was to be a posthumous posting;  she probably knows that even if you sold all five pallets tomorrow, it wouldn't be six months before that space was all filled up again, with vintage parts and engines labeled Varney and Ford! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16300	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Chris,   I knew you bere speaking in jest..  she, on the other hand I think is serious...   She said to me just yesterday...   "You acumulate more %#@! (aka crap) faster than anyone I know"... as she stood there watching me sort trough a treasure trove of old trains, getting some ready to list. Right after i told her about a house auction I plan to got to soon..   I replied back.. "It's just trains...nothing else."   She replied.. "Like I said.. %#@!" (aka crap) and then she gave me a kiss and a hug and went upstairs.   I think I could have that space filled back up in ~2 weeks. or less.. I have a 67 Mustang waiting to be restored and right now it is in storage. As soon as that space opens up, it is coming home!   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:23:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean, I'm assuming all knew I spoke in jest, but I am glad to hear it was to be a posthumous posting;  she probably knows that even if you sold all five pallets tomorrow, it wouldn't be six months before that space was all filled up again, with vintage parts and engines labeled Varney and Ford! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16301	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

She sounds great Sean, you're a lucky guy! I'm similarly blessed, in that I've got more old metal trains and new metal fabrication tools than I ever dreamed would fit in this basement! I can say though, I was only a few years single and was living in the city in DC when we met, so I'd temporarily given up the "have multiple old small power boats down at my folk's place on the bay" hobby; and I'd also temporarily had to sell the "antique GMC pickup(s)" hobby; but my small apt was one big layout! So she's been accepting of the trains since the beginning, but it was pretty clear when we got married and I moved into her small great house in North Arlington, that I could have all the trains and tools that would fit into the basement; but in return....I would only have access to rental powerboats, and I could watch all the Mecum and Barret Jackson antique and muscle car auctions I wanted!!! It's worth it though, I had old cars and trucks and boats my whole life before, and the whole time I wanted a layout and never had time for one. Now I finally have time, AND a layout, so for me it's a great trade off! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:56:32 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   I knew you bere speaking in jest..  she, on the other hand I think is serious...   She said to me just yesterday...   "You acumulate more %#@! (aka crap) faster than anyone I know"... as she stood there watching me sort trough a treasure trove of old trains, getting some ready to list. Right after i told her about a house auction I plan to got to soon..   I replied back.. "It's just trains...nothing else."   She replied.. "Like I said.. %#@!" (aka crap) and then she gave me a kiss and a hug and went upstairs.   I think I could have that space filled back up in ~2 weeks. or less.. I have a 67 Mustang waiting to be restored and right now it is in storage. As soon as that space opens up, it is coming home!   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:23:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean, I'm assuming all knew I spoke in jest, but I am glad to hear it was to be a posthumous posting;  she probably knows that even if you sold all five pallets tomorrow, it wouldn't be six months before that space was all filled up again, with vintage parts and engines labeled Varney and Ford! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16302	From: Glenn	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

American OO is 4mm/ft--track is 19mm or 3/4 inch--same as On3. gj -----Original Message----- From: jbark76 Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 6:17 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers OO Cars? I am starting a new layout with one loop of OO at the base, then it will be primarily HO. What are you using for an engine for the OO cars? The American Flyer diecast flat car looks convincing to me for OO. I have thought about shortening it a bit to make it 40' in OO. (It's a 50' HO car.) I'm also thinking about making new sides for it, but the deck is just as wide as a Scalecraft flatcar. What are you doing with the OO trucks? -Jeff Barker- ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16303	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: A winning bid

For a number of years I had been looking for the two original Winton Allegheny tender trucks. Well waiting paid off.  Go to item 180636794117     Brass HO tender / 6 & 8 wheel tender trucks.  I don't need the tender body but the set of original trucks are a big plus  It totally completes my original Winton Allegheny.     Shows how good a network I have searching. Friend Jeff Richards in CA finds them, calls me to tell me they are up for bid. I then contact another friend Bill Morrison / Penn Line expert from Boyertown PA who bids as I don't use Pay Pal. Bill then talks the seller into sending the item directly to me so it doesn't get shipped to Bill and then have to be reshipped ( extra money ) to me      It took a couple of years but I got the original trucks just as I am waiting to find the original valve gear for my Conover 1938 2-10-2-.                        Patience.                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16304	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: tag sale finds

Attachments : mdcstock2.JPG eje01.JPG Hi Folks, I am attaching photos of what I picked up at a tag sale Saturday.  A friend and I got there about 10:00 am, because it was Saturday and I did not want to get up early and be there at 8:00 am.....and that the way it is.    Apparently 3 tables of train stuff got sold by the time we got there, but still, both of us ended up ok.  Both of us got a couple of decent vintage cars for $6.00 each, already equipped with decent trucks and Kadee couplers. I am not sure who made the EJ&E boxcar, but it was probably Varney, or Athearn.  It is stamped metal with a wood floor.  I removed the brake equipment and will later re-do it, because the original owner put that stuff together all wrong.  The rest of the car is pristine, with metal sprung trucks and metal wheels.  they wheels will need to be airbrushed to make them look better, but it is already track worthy, so into service it goes.  The MDC Southern stock car had a few paint chips, but PRR Tuscan came as close as any color.  With a bit of weathering, it will be just fine.  The plastic trucks are ok, but I will replace them with Tichy Bettendorf friction bearing trucks and P2K  wheelsets. Still and all it was a pretty decent hour on a Saturday morning. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16305	From: Peter Nyce	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

I believe what you have there is a GN Door & Half Boxcar by Quality Craft of Northhampton PA. The car sits a little higher and is a little wider than a standard boxcar, creating some clearance problems. This was a limited run kit from the early 60's. Peter At 11:45 PM 3/9/2011, you wrote:   Picked up a handful of cars today. Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. I have no idea where to start looking. Trying to find the camera.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16306	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: tag sale finds

Vic, The EJ&E box car is definitely Varney, because I also have one of them. An easy to tell the difference between Varney and Athearn stamped metal cars is this: Look at the ends and how they overlap the sides. Varney cars have one side and one end made in a single stamping in an "L" shape, so the end will only overlap on one side. Athearn cars had ends separate from the sides and overlap on both edges. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > I am not sure who made the EJ&E boxcar, but it was probably Varney, or Athearn. It is stamped metal with a wood floor. I

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16307	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Sure looks like it. Now to fabricate a couple of missing doors. Thanks! Dave > > I believe what you have there is a GN Door & Half > Boxcar by Quality Craft of Northhampton PA. The > car sits a little higher and is a little wider > than a standard boxcar, creating some clearance > problems. This was a limited run kit from the early 60's. > > Peter > > > At 11:45 PM 3/9/2011, you wrote: > > > > > >Picked up a handful of cars today. > >Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > >But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. > >The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > >The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > >I have no idea where to start looking. > > > >Trying to find the camera. > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16308	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

speaking of doors--anyone got any doors for the MDC reefer--I also need ice hatches for one. gj -----Original Message----- From: trainsnwrcs Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:00 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Ident Sure looks like it. Now to fabricate a couple of missing doors. Thanks! Dave > > I believe what you have there is a GN Door & Half > Boxcar by Quality Craft of Northhampton PA. The > car sits a little higher and is a little wider > than a standard boxcar, creating some clearance > problems. This was a limited run kit from the early 60's. > > Peter > > > At 11:45 PM 3/9/2011, you wrote: > > > > > >Picked up a handful of cars today. > >Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > >But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door > >arrangement. > >The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > >The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > >I have no idea where to start looking. > > > >Trying to find the camera. > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16309	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location

Yes, NYC Mohawk 3001 is at the museum in Elkhart. I gather there has been more than a little controversy in Elkhart about preservation, restoration, whatever. This convention, and the people and money it brings in to the town, may make a difference to the city, and to preservation and restoration efforts. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Long95209 <long95209@...> wrote:   Walter . Is there a Mowhawk there also , or close by ? One was saved from Texas ? HH --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Here they are. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Long95209 <long95209@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Nice location , nice rolling stock as well . Just one thing ? Can you dial > > up the 5 attachments so we can see 'em ? Thanks , wish I could travel I'd be > > there . HH > > > > --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@> > > wrote: > > > > > > For anyone interested in RR modeling. > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Jim Six <jamessix@> > > > Date: Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM > > > Subject: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments] > > > To: RPM-forum@yahoogroups.com, NMRA_Michiana_Division@yahoogroups.com, > > > CHESSIEmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NICKELPLATEROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com, > > > conrailmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NYC-Modeler@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) <#12eb1139aaff1035_TopText> from Jim Six included below] > > > > > > > > > Many people have contacted us with questions about the location of the > > 2011 > > > GLMRS. The 2011 GLMRS will be held at the National New York Central RR > > > Museum in downtown Elkhart. Attached are five photos provided by Jason > > > Powers that show what the museum is like and its general location. > > > > > > As you can see, the former NYC mainline, now Norfolk Southern, runs right > > > alongside the museum. Directly across the tracks is the Amtrak station. > > The > > > downtown is right there. > > > > > > The 2011 GLMRS will be held in the museum and in the Amtrak station, > > which > > > is part of the city-owned museum. We have the entire upper level of the > > > station along with the entire museum. Lots of room. Lots of great things > > to > > > do and see, and a very large number of trains to watch and photograph. > > The > > > museum and Amtrak depot are right at the east end of the large NS Elkhart > > > Yard. > > > > > > We hope you will mark the weekend of April 15th and 16th on your calendar > > > and come on out to Elkhart and enjoy a great weekend of model > > railroading, > > > learning, sharing, train watching, and photography. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Walter > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16310	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

Jeff, Need OO trucks? eMail me off list at sneubaum@... Got plenty of Scale Craft freight trucks, some Nason trucks (Including a pair of coach trucks) and plenty I cannot ID. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 3/14/11, jbark76 <jbark76@...> wrote: From: jbark76 <jbark76@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers OO Cars? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 8:17 AM   I am starting a new layout with one loop of OO at the base, then it will be primarily HO. What are you using for an engine for the OO cars? The American Flyer diecast flat car looks convincing to me for OO. I have thought about shortening it a bit to make it 40' in OO. (It's a 50' HO car.) I'm also thinking about making new sides for it, but the deck is just as wide as a Scalecraft flatcar. What are you doing with the OO trucks? -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16311	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

I have two of these kits, as yet unbuilt. Do you need any information about the missing doors? Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16312	From: Glenn	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

I guess that I am either looking for someone who has some spare  doors and hatches, or who might be able to make some copy castings.  This would be the R-100 series cars, not the later “economy_ kits that had sides and doors as one piece, with decal lettering.  gj   From: Carl Neste Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:33 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Ident   I have two of these kits, as yet unbuilt. Do you need any information about the missing doors? Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16313	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Yes! The instructions on HOSeeker leave a bit to be desired. It appears there is a very thin wod backing, that fits into the door guides, then "sticks" glued on, and painted. The doors on the two cars are slightly different. I imagine thin styrene backing would probably work just as good if not better, or even brass, with CA or epoxy to hold the sticks on! Thanks! Dave I have two of these kits, as yet unbuilt. Do you need any information about the missing doors? Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16314	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Dave, I'm won't be home 'til sometime next month. When I get back, I'll scan the instructions and send them to HOSeeker. I'll also measure the doors and hatches and send the results to you. Carl   Yes! The instructions on HOSeeker leave a bit to be desired. It appears there is a very thin wood backing, that fits into the door guides, then "sticks" glued on, and painted. The doors on the two cars are slightly different. I imagine thin styrene backing would probably work just as good if not better, or even brass, with CA or epoxy to hold the sticks on! Thanks! Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16315	From: Glenn	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: MDC parts

A slight change in what I need to complete my MDC R-101 reefer--  I only need the FR-103 doors.  my car has the ice hatches, and one right-hand door.    So I can get by with at least a left-hand door, or 2 left and one right.  Thanks in advance—Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16316	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: Odd project engine / drive

Attachments : IMG_6859_4.JPG IMG_6858_3.JPG IMG_6856_2.JPG IMG_6855_1.JPG   Hi      I think a lot of people already  know that when I'm not searching out a vintage item for my collection I look for something on the odd side to build for my "fantasy" engine collection. I figured I would send some pictures of one of these engine in the before state. Even though I started it there is no finished or after picture.      I thought it might be neat to show just as a discussion piece especially the very unique drive in it. The first picture is not the best but you can read the writing which will give you some info about what it is and how it came to me. It saves me from typing. The other picture should be clearer to see things better.      The front two sets of geared drivers run off the geared drive shaft in two places. The back driver seems to be in a geared box with the motor sitting on top which has a gear down to a gear on the front of that gear box. I hope the pictures explain  it better then I am. However when running ( yes it will run ) all drivers are geared and not just collected by rods.    I started to take it apart but the front boiler of wood and the wood block for the tender wrapper make it a lot harder to rebuild. The tender wrapper is pretty well done including the rivet detail Other then  being Box Pox drivers I have no idea who made the leading and trailing truck or the tenders trucks.         Just something a little different then the  norm that I thought some might like to see. Maybe I bought it off of YOU.                                           Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16317	From: James Bartelt	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Unusual Revell Covered Hopper.

Attachments : 100_6514.JPG Hello, I was curious if anybody in the group has any info on this unusual Revell Covered hopper that I purchased in a collection of Vintage HO the other weekend at at Train show. It is a Revell Covered hopper that has a clear plastic body with a red roof. The Car is lettered with a DOW logo and POLYPROPYLENE in Red. No other lettering or number.  The covered hopper is filled with loose plastic pellets, I am guessing they are polypropylene. Unfortunately three of the four stirrups are broken off. Otherwise the car is in excellent shape. Was this a promotional car for Dow Chemical? Any info would be appreciated. -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2011 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16318	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: New member needs help:

First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16319	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. Mighty Mite? http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. Whaleback with an 0-4-0? Interesting. Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. Dave > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16320	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Sure looks like you're right Dave, I think this gentleman who built it was quite creative. It will be added to the list to restore. Thanks for the help. Mike --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > Mighty Mite? > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > Interesting. > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > Dave > > > > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16321	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

The mechanism maybe, but that cab looks scratchbuilt, as does the whaleback tender. I've never seen Mantua trucks with the "fat" axles, they look more like micro-motive to me. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > Mighty Mite? > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > Interesting. > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > Dave > > >> First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was >> suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and >> unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a >> big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims >> collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at >> the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike >>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16322	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <ayutla5@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: [vintageHO] New member needs help: > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was > suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and > unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a > big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims > collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at > the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > Welcome aboard, I hope you enjoy the ride. I think you'll find this to one of, if not THE friendliest and most knowledgeable HO groups in Yahoo. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16323	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

For what it is worth, I have some Mantua trucks with "fat" axles. I think they are prewar. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 3/19/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 19, 2011, 2:47 PM   The mechanism maybe, but that cab looks scratchbuilt, as does the whaleback tender. I've never seen Mantua trucks with the "fat" axles, they look more like micro-motive to me. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > Mighty Mite? > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > Interesting. > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > Dave > > >> First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was >> suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and >> unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a >> big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims >> collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at >> the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike >>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16324	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Thank you all and I enjoyed the cream city traction since I have a number of old japanese brass trollies I collect. Since I'm 41 most of my collection is from before I was born so I will be doing alot more asking than anything so bear with me guys. Someone has to carry on collecting the old stuff though. Reguards, Mike Martin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike" <ayutla5@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:49 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] New member needs help: > > > > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was > > suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and > > unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a > > big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims > > collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at > > the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > > > > Welcome aboard, I hope you enjoy the ride. I think you'll find this to one > of, if not THE friendliest and most knowledgeable HO groups in Yahoo. > > Don > > Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16325	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Like I said in my original post.....homemade cab and tender superstructure. Fat Mantua Axles, oh, yes, indeedy. Called "vintage". (poke!) Dave > The mechanism maybe, but that cab looks scratchbuilt, as does the whaleback > tender. I've never seen Mantua trucks with the "fat" axles, they look more > like micro-motive to me. > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:08 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: > > > > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > > Mighty Mite? > > > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > > Interesting. > > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > > Dave > > > > > >> First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was > >> suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and > >> unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a > >> big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims > >> collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at > >> the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16326	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: odd engine

Attachments : IMG_6871_6_1.JPG IMG_6870_5_1.JPG IMG_6869_4_1.JPG IMG_6867_3_1.JPG IMG_6866_2_1.JPG Hi Mike ( slim_gauge_guy)             Welcome to the group. I just came in and saw your engine. While I pretty much agree with most of what been said I would like to add some things or confirm some things.       First deals with a number of companies including Mantua (which is mainly what we are dealing with in your pictures). We are dealing with companies that made products pre war and post war. Because of war shortages of certain metals many like Mantua had to stop pre war productions and resume post war. That doesn't mean some items were not made during these times as companies had some stock piles of certain parts and after the war when new parts were started to be made it was not impossible to find" mix and match" engines.They used parts up, they didn't throw things away.       First lets talk about the Mantua " fat axles"  Pre war a lot of the axles on their little tenders ( 0-4-0 ) type engines had fat axles. Did this stop with the war or did Mantua use up stock of "fat axles" after the war and for how long .I don't think anyone can put an end date on their use.      I also believe that the frame on your engine is Mantua and that cast metal frame was used on the Mighty Mite, Lil Goat Camelback and the Busy Bee ( 0-4-0t, no tender). These are shown in the pictures. You will also see a Mantua 0-4-0 Mighty Mite with a cast brass frame. When and for how long Mantua used stockpiled parts or used them all up had to do with the war, metal shortages and new start up.      I agree your engine is mainly Mantua with some modification.  That tender body I believe was made by another company or by the builder of the engine. Mantua produced no such tender body that I know of, ever listed in a  cataloged or that I ever saw being in vintages ho collecting since 1958.      While the engine cab is not a normal cab for Mantua I don't think it was completely made from scratch. I believe it was an already made cab modified. I believe there was a window strut / support cut out of the middle to make the large oblong windows.       One final thing is the long tanks mounted under the cab. You don't see this on the Mantua engines except as shown in the last picture showing the 0-4-0t Busy Bee.       I believe the engine is mainly Mantua with modifications done, but well done. Just a little more information you might be able to use. My belief you decide if it helps.                                   Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16327	From: Glenn	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine [6 Attachments]

Commenting on these—I have all three in my collection”  Fat Axles—Mantua cars I got as a kid in 1948 had the fat axles.  Probably still makingf things as pre-war, but Mantua was one of the earlier firms to be back in production.   The brass sheet metal tender frame looks unusual.  Could someone have made it to replace one with Zamak Rot?  My Mighty Mite’s tender has a Zamak frame.(I need one Reading-type tender truck for mine)   The Zamak cab is proper.  The Mighty  Mite seems to be the “transition” engine between the original “Goat” and “Busy Bee” and the all-die-cast engines of the Shifter/Booster and Big/Little Six group.  Compare that cab with one on a “Shifter”   Idon’t see enough of the tender to comment.  gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:24 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] odd engine [6 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below] Hi Mike ( slim_gauge_guy)             Welcome to the group. I just came in and saw your engine. While I pretty much agree with most of what been said I would like to add some things or confirm some things.       First deals with a number of companies including Mantua (which is mainly what we are dealing with in your pictures). We are dealing with companies that made products pre war and post war. Because of war shortages of certain metals many like Mantua had to stop pre war productions and resume post war. That doesn't mean some items were not made during these times as companies had some stock piles of certain parts and after the war when new parts were started to be made it was not impossible to find" mix and match" engines.They used parts up, they didn't throw things away.       First lets talk about the Mantua " fat axles"  Pre war a lot of the axles on their little tenders ( 0-4-0 ) type engines had fat axles. Did this stop with the war or did Mantua use up stock of "fat axles" after the war and for how long .I don't think anyone can put an end date on their use.      I also believe that the frame on your engine is Mantua and that cast metal frame was used on the Mighty Mite, Lil Goat Camelback and the Busy Bee ( 0-4-0t, no tender). These are shown in the pictures. You will also see a Mantua 0-4-0 Mighty Mite with a cast brass frame. When and for how long Mantua used stockpiled parts or used them all up had to do with the war, metal shortages and new start up.      I agree your engine is mainly Mantua with some modification.  That tender body I believe was made by another company or by the builder of the engine. Mantua produced no such tender body that I know of, ever listed in a  cataloged or that I ever saw being in vintages ho collecting since 1958.      While the engine cab is not a normal cab for Mantua I don't think it was completely made from scratch. I believe it was an already made cab modified. I believe there was a window strut / support cut out of the middle to make the large oblong windows.       One final thing is the long tanks mounted under the cab. You don't see this on the Mantua engines except as shown in the last picture showing the 0-4-0t Busy Bee.       I believe the engine is mainly Mantua with modifications done, but well done. Just a little more information you might be able to use. My belief you decide if it helps.                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16328	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine

Thanks a bunch Jim, someone in the Brass Trains group believes the tender body was a kemtron Kit that could be purchased years ago? It's got a home now. Mike --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Mike ( slim_gauge_guy) > > > Welcome to the group. I just came in and saw your engine. While I pretty much agree with most of what been said I would like to add some things or confirm some things. > > First deals with a number of companies including Mantua (which is mainly what we are dealing with in your pictures). We are dealing with companies that made products pre war and post war. Because of war shortages of certain metals many like Mantua had to stop pre war productions and resume post war. That doesn't mean some items were not made during these times as companies had some stock piles of certain parts and after the war when new parts were started to be made it was not impossible to find" mix and match" engines.They used parts up, they didn't throw things away. > > First lets talk about the Mantua " fat axles" Pre war a lot of the axles on their little tenders ( 0-4-0 ) type engines had fat axles. Did this stop with the war or did Mantua use up stock of "fat axles" after the war and for how long .I don't think anyone can put an end date on their use. > > I also believe that the frame on your engine is Mantua and that cast metal frame was used on the Mighty Mite, Lil Goat Camelback and the Busy Bee ( 0-4-0t, no tender). These are shown in the pictures. You will also see a Mantua 0-4-0 Mighty Mite with a cast brass frame. When and for how long Mantua used stockpiled parts or used them all up had to do with the war, metal shortages and new start up. > > I agree your engine is mainly Mantua with some modification. That tender body I believe was made by another company or by the builder of the engine. Mantua produced no such tender body that I know of, ever listed in a cataloged or that I ever saw being in vintages ho collecting since 1958. > > While the engine cab is not a normal cab for Mantua I don't think it was completely made from scratch. I believe it was an already made cab modified. I believe there was a window strut / support cut out of the middle to make the large oblong windows. > > One final thing is the long tanks mounted under the cab. You don't see this on the Mantua engines except as shown in the last picture showing the 0-4-0t Busy Bee. > > I believe the engine is mainly Mantua with modifications done, but well done. Just a little more information you might be able to use. My belief you decide if it helps. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16329	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Good old woodies

While I didn't get back into model railroading until 3 years ago, I have been accumulating A LOT of good quality wood kits over the last 5 decades. In the interest of full disclosure, I do like the newest plastic kits, like Red Caboose, Proto 2K, InterMountain, etc., and I'm in the middle of assembling two B&O AAR boxcars. But I also just started two BevBel steel-sided boxcar kits, identical but with different road names. I've been a subscriber and avid reader of MR and MRC seemingly forever. And I remember reading that when building a wood kit that pretends to be a metal car, it is necessary to apply sanding sealer to the exposed parts and sand them really smooth before painting. I've done that so far to the sides, roof and bottom. But I'll bet you folks have a lot more experience building these kits then I do, and perhaps could offer some suggestions that would help me get standout results. I'd love to hear them. Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16330	From: jbark76	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies

I use OOO steel wool to smooth wood cars sealed with sanding sealer. I have also used Krylon clear coat spray for the same purpose, but sanding sealer is surely better. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16331	From: Chris B	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies

FWIW, as an apprentice cabinetmaker I learned to use fine 180 and 220 white openface aluminum oxide sandpaper to "cut down" or smooth sanding sealer. Later in my own shop I taught helpers the same way I'd been taught, that coarser garnet paper is used to smooth wood, up to 180 grit, this gets the raw wood as smooth as paper will get it, since the fine wood fibers at this point don't resist any higher grit of paper, the just bend over and lay down like the hairs in the shaving cream commercials. To cut them off, just like with a razor in the commercials, First you spray or brush on sanding sealer, and let it dry around those fine wood fiber hairs, so it holds them up stiffly vertical or nearly so. Then you use a flat block and fine paper to cut them off, usually starting with the same grit you left off with, but using aluminum oxide paper instead of garnet. The open coat paper has lots of open space for the sealer bits and wood fibers to get swept into as the paper and block cuts them off. (Then  you spray 12 or 16 coats of lacquer, wetsanding between each one with 400 and 600 paper, then rubbing with soft cloths and pumice and rottenstone, followed by 0000 steel wool applied with "steel wool wax" that keeps it from burning through high spots on the finish...) but that's for dining table tops, not box cars!) The reason you use paper instead of fine steel wool on the sanding sealer is paper and a block cuts off the dried straight up hairs...fine steel wool bends them down again, and smooths over any high round bumps in the finish, instead of cutting them off flat like a razor in the commercials. Steel wool is great for finish coats where you don't want to cut through the finish and stain or paint, on an edge or a high spot and expose the raw wood color, but you might find you get an overall smoother surface if you cut down the sanding sealer with paper and a block, instead of steel wool I like all the different grit emery boards that CVS and the plastic model builders use for that purpose, since full size sanding blocks and paper as used on furniture are only rarely suitable for railcar modeling. one method that does work for large flat surfaces, and keeps them flat, is to use white glue to adhere a full or half sheet of paper to a piece of flat glass, and move the model part rather than the paper. We did use to do that too in the woodshop, to sand small parts without rounding over sharp edges. Chris B.   From: jbark76 <jbark76@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 3:09:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Good old woodies   I use OOO steel wool to smooth wood cars sealed with sanding sealer. I have also used Krylon clear coat spray for the same purpose, but sanding sealer is surely better. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16332	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: 2011 GLMRS Update and Campus Map

Attachments : Some additional information for those considering attending [Looks really good!].                 The Great Lakes Model Railroad Symposium (GLMRS) is an annual event co-sponsored by the NMRA Michiana Division and the St. Joe Valley Model Railroad Club. For 2011 we have moved from South Bend to Elkhart, Indiana at the National New York Central Railroad Museum and the Amtrak Depot across the Norfolk Southern tracks.   The 2011 GLMRS is an all-scale event for scale model railroaders designed to help you to learn new skills and enhance old ones. The GLMRS will be a learning experience for all. We support all scale model railroaders including N, HO, S, and O-scales. This is not a train "show". It is not an RPM-meet. The GLMRS is an opportunity to learn from other scale model railroaders, share with them, and meet others with similar experiences and shared interests. As you can see from the line-up below, the 2011 GLMRS will be two days packed full of great activities with some of the hobby's best-known scale model railroaders. I hope you will take time to visit Elkhart and attend the fifth annual GLMRS.                                                                               See you in April!                                                                                                                                                                                    Jim Six                                                                             Superintendent, NMRA Michiana Division (MWR)           SCHEDULE OF ACTIVITIES   FRIDAY April 15 9:00 AM-11:45 AM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 9:00 AM-1:30 PM                     DEPOT-1                         David Duchamp/Dennis Whitaker: DCC Hands-on Workshop 10:00 AM-11:30 PM               WORKSHOP-1              Jim Six: Painting and Weathering Structures Demonstration & Clinic 12:00 PM-1:45 PM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 12:00 PM-1:30 PM                  THEATER                       Jim Six: Creating Photo Backdrops Demonstration 2:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Jim Six: Building a Freight Car Fleet for Operating Model Railroads 3:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Maynard Mitchell: Modeling Realistic Trees, Rivers, and Streams 4:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Terry Stuart: Modeling Pennsy along the Ohio River 7:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Bill Neale: Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad 8:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Jim Hediger (Kalmbach): Double Deck Model Railroads SATURDAY April 16 9:00 AM-11:45 AM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 9:00 AM-1:30 PM                     DEPOT-1                         David Duchamp/Dennis Whitaker: DCC Hands-on Workshop 9:30 AM-11:00 PM                  WORKSHOP-1              John Lee: Fundamentals of Painting with an Airbrush  12:00 PM-1:45 PM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 12:00 PM - 1:30                        WORKSHOP-1              John Lee: Fundamentals of Painting with an Airbrush                                          12:00 PM-1:30 PM                  THEATER                       Jim Six: Creating Photo Backdrops Demonstration 1:00 PM                                       DEPOT-1                         David Duchamp: Programming DCC/Sound Decoders 2:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Ray Breyer: Scratch Building Your Way to Fun & Profit 3:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Mike Burgett: Modeling the C&O Clifton Forge Division 4:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Tony Koester (Kalmbach): The State of Layout Design and Construction Today 7:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Doug Tagsold: Modeling Toledo's Port Terminal Railroads                        8:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Mike Brestel: The NMRA Today and Tomorrow                       MAP of the 2011 Great Lakes Model Railroad Symposium Campus       -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16333	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies

I use OOO steel wool to smooth wood cars sealed with sanding sealer. I have also used Krylon clear coat spray for the same purpose, but sanding sealer is surely better. -Jeff Barker- Excellent advice.  The sealer should be applied to all exposed wood surfaces: that is, exposed both inside and out.  Exposed and unsealed wood (and paper) will *always* move with changes in ambient moisture, and sealing both sides prevents the wood from moving only on one side- i.e.  "warping". Sealing end grain is especially important. The easiest sanding sealer for modeling work is that obtained in RC stores, "Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer".  It essentially is a fast drying brushing clear lacquer with a talc filler. Mix well, and mix often. Before the sealer is applied, you will be ahead of the game by sanding the wood initially *before* applying the sealer, in addition to also sanding it afterwards.  000 or 0000 steel wool does work very well, but considerable caution has to be exercised to meticulously remove all the tiny steel threads left behind in the crevises, etc. Blowing it clean additionally hazards the eyes, of course.  I also use 300 and 400 grit sandpaper. 600 grit clogs up almost immediately, and the results are not noticeably improved. Although in past years I work increasingly with styrene, I have much fondness for wood and paper modeling, if only because working with the latter is so very satisfying, and fine results represent fine modeling craftsmanship.   Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16334	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: seeking information

Attachments : IMG_6875_4.JPG IMG_6874_3.JPG IMG_6873_2.JPG IMG_6872_1.JPG              As a vintage HO collector I am always on the look out for companies and  items they made that are not commonly heard of. I purchased this item of eBay a little while back and might have asked some of these questions before but I'm still seeking some more answers. Since there are many new members in the group I am hoping for more information.         I am mostly seeking information about the company, other products they made and copies of any printed information or catalogs they may have printed.        As you can see by the pictures the company is  Western Models    930 S W Harrison Street  Portland, Oregon.  ( No zip code in the address and a 1 cent postcard in the box to send back to the company with any complaints might help to date them. )   The engine is a photo engraved model of a 1000 HP ALCO diesel switcher. It is powered by a Pittman DC 60 motor that is part of a Varney gear box unit using pulleys and a coil spring drive with flywheel.. It has single pulleys so it is not  variable speed. There is a bag of detail parts which includes Mantua loop type coupler. Looks like they , Western Models,. used parts from a number of companies. ( The brass parts to assemble the body were not the best fitting and needed to be filed.)       Although I described the engine  I am mostly interested in knowing more about the company and any other products. Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. I will gladly pay to have copies of any paperwork you might have and could send to me.                                                         Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16335	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck part

Hi guys- I'm still in need of one (1) truck sideframe for an American Beauty passenger truck. A single complete truck would work too, if anyone can furnish that for me. I would also be grateful if anyone can furnish me with two (2) (or evem one) of the AB full width diaphragm plates (steel or plastic). I'd happily compensate you for these items. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16336	From: Robert	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2

looking for tender truck sets for old model Athearn 4-6-2 tender. Thanks Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16337	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Attachments : IMG_6881_3.JPG IMG_6880_2.JPG IMG_6879_1.JPG                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16338	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]

Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16339	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16340	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16341	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

I know a little about his live steam adventure. I have a set of plans for what was going to be a 4-8-4 using the Berk set of 8 drivers. Ebay sold a Winton 0-8-0 frame with the steam chest saddle made for live steam. I had a man from Germany contact me to get him the copy of the 8 wheel live steam Winton drive that showed the individual heavy duty valve gear pieces and how it would be fired by Butane. How the inside of the tender would be piped , etc. The engine was to have a 4 wheel trailing truck to take the extra length needed at the back end. I'm recalling this off the top of my head so I could be off slightly but the set of plans were full size and about 10 pages.  He gave up on it also because he was a machinist and he took off at least one finger. That's one of the reasons he stopped the Allegheny and that third version .   ( Ma Ra ) came about from other people.  I have to check my folders as I still might have the copy of the Winton steam plans but really believe I sent everything to Germany. I know the guy from Germany got the ready for live steam frame, drivers and steam chest saddle for $110.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16342	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Wow. That is definitely cool. Wish I had a copy of those plans. Art W   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:39:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes:      I know a little about his live steam adventure. I have a set of plans for what was going to be a 4-8-4 using the Berk set of 8 drivers. Ebay sold a Winton 0-8-0 frame with the steam chest saddle made for live steam. I had a man from Germany contact me to get him the copy of the 8 wheel live steam Winton drive that showed the individual heavy duty valve gear pieces and how it would be fired by Butane. How the inside of the tender would be piped , etc. The engine was to have a 4 wheel trailing truck to take the extra length needed at the back end. I'm recalling this off the top of my head so I could be off slightly but the set of plans were full size and about 10 pages.  He gave up on it also because he was a machinist and he took off at least one finger. That's one of the reasons he stopped the Allegheny and that third version .   ( Ma Ra ) came about from other people.  I have to check my folders as I still might have the copy of the Winton steam plans but really believe I sent everything to Germany. I know the guy from Germany got the ready for live steam frame, drivers and steam chest saddle for $110.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16343	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,             By the way the man from Germany who is trying to build that Winton live steam engine is Egon Berger of Hohenau Germany. I have his Email address and home address as I'm to notify him if I see any thing else. This man builds as lot of live steam.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16344	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

JIm, Dot iss vonnderful! Art   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:43:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,             By the way the man from Germany who is trying to build that Winton live steam engine is Egon Berger of Hohenau Germany. I have his Email address and home address as I'm to notify him if I see any thing else. This man builds as lot of live steam.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16345	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,           I'll check if I still have the plans. They were in some train mag and a buddy from CA told me about it and sent me a copy. I'll try to get him to at least get the name of the book it was in. It was part of a book about live steam and the Winton story and pictures were part of it.                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Wow. That is definitely cool. Wish I had a copy of those plans. Art W   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:39:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes:      I know a little about his live steam adventure. I have a set of plans for what was going to be a 4-8-4 using the Berk set of 8 drivers. Ebay sold a Winton 0-8-0 frame with the steam chest saddle made for live steam. I had a man from Germany contact me to get him the copy of the 8 wheel live steam Winton drive that showed the individual heavy duty valve gear pieces and how it would be fired by Butane. How the inside of the tender would be piped , etc. The engine was to have a 4 wheel trailing truck to take the extra length needed at the back end. I'm recalling this off the top of my head so I could be off slightly but the set of plans were full size and about 10 pages.  He gave up on it also because he was a machinist and he took off at least one finger. That's one of the reasons he stopped the Allegheny and that third version .   ( Ma Ra ) came about from other people.  I have to check my folders as I still might have the copy of the Winton steam plans but really believe I sent everything to Germany. I know the guy from Germany got the ready for live steam frame, drivers and steam chest saddle for $110.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16346	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,         I found the story and the drawings. If you were a machinist you could easily use these plans to make the engine as it was proposed by Winton F Brown.  The book was called    Advanced Model Railroading   by Louise Hertz ( I think you would know that name as he was involved with model trains. The book was published in 1955. . If you are interested in the story and drawings about Winton and his proposed 4-8-4 ( 9 pages ) send me your address off  site to jimheck@.... Give me 3 or 4 days to get a copy made and I'll send it to you ( I have a number of appointments the next two days)                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   JIm, Dot iss vonnderful! Art   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:43:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,             By the way the man from Germany who is trying to build that Winton live steam engine is Egon Berger of Hohenau Germany. I have his Email address and home address as I'm to notify him if I see any thing else. This man builds as lot of live steam.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16347	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]

Jim, As you may remember, I have a working Winton Allegheny. I'm taking a look now at the tender (been a long time since I built it), and I have very flexible (small gage multi-strand-wrapped) copper wire soldered to the brass part of the trucks that straddle the insulated portion in question, nearest the center of the tender, and is attached to the truck side frames. The brass pieces I'm talking about are clearly seen as the very shiney metal in your first photo of looking down onto the trucks -- there is a section of brass to either end of the center/mounting hole of the truck, on the insulated piece. As I stated, a wire is soldered to the brass section nearest to center of the tender itself -- as there's a hole (I don't remember if I drilled it or whether it was already there -- check yours) about 3/16" to 1/4" in diameter in the center of the tender floor which these wires (one from each truck) are routed through. Then, there are two smaller holes at the front of the tender to either side, in the recess just above the platform under which the drawbar is attached. I guess you might regard that area as the tender's coal doors on those engines that were hand-fired, but of course not on an Allegheny which must have had a stoker. Anyway, the two wires are routed through these smaller holes (about 1/16" diameter) and female plugs are attached to the wire ends to mate with male plugs from the engine. I no longer have the plans for this Winton Brown version, but have them for my Ma Ra Allegheny, although I doubt this portion is the same. I will check them out though, and if useable, I'll send you a Ma Ra plan copy. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16348	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Hi Ray,           Good to hear from you . At least you survived those little dustings of snow New Jersey got. Appreciate very much you explaining how your Winton Allegheny tender gets the power where it needs to go. I think the thing that upset me the most is I expected to take out two screws, take the fill in tender trucks off, put the original Winton trucks on  and put the two screws back in. 5 minute job. Going to take slightly longer.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, As you may remember, I have a working Winton Allegheny. I'm taking a look now at the tender (been a long time since I built it), and I have very flexible (small gage multi-strand-wrapped) copper wire soldered to the brass part of the trucks that straddle the insulated portion in question, nearest the center of the tender, and is attached to the truck side frames. The brass pieces I'm talking about are clearly seen as the very shiney metal in your first photo of looking down onto the trucks -- there is a section of brass to either end of the center/mounting hole of the truck, on the insulated piece. As I stated, a wire is soldered to the brass section nearest to center of the tender itself -- as there's a hole (I don't remember if I drilled it or whether it was already there -- check yours) about 3/16" to 1/4" in diameter in the center of the tender floor which these wires (one from each truck) are routed through. Then, there are two smaller holes at the front of the tender to either side, in the recess just above the platform under which the drawbar is attached. I guess you might regard that area as the tender's coal doors on those engines that were hand-fired, but of course not on an Allegheny which must have had a stoker. Anyway, the two wires are routed through these smaller holes (about 1/16" diameter) and female plugs are attached to the wire ends to mate with male plugs from the engine. I no longer have the plans for this Winton Brown version, but have them for my Ma Ra Allegheny, although I doubt this portion is the same. I will check them out though, and if useable, I'll send you a Ma Ra plan copy. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16349	From: Nelson	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > Good luck. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16350	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim,   I will take a look at my complete and assembled Winton and let you know what I find - as you may already know....   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Hi Ray,           Good to hear from you . At least you survived those little dustings of snow New Jersey got. Appreciate very much you explaining how your Winton Allegheny tender gets the power where it needs to go. I think the thing that upset me the most is I expected to take out two screws, take the fill in tender trucks off, put the original Winton trucks on  and put the two screws back in. 5 minute job. Going to take slightly longer.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, As you may remember, I have a working Winton Allegheny. I'm taking a look now at the tender (been a long time since I built it), and I have very flexible (small gage multi-strand-wrapped) copper wire soldered to the brass part of the trucks that straddle the insulated portion in question, nearest the center of the tender, and is attached to the truck side frames. The brass pieces I'm talking about are clearly seen as the very shiney metal in your first photo of looking down onto the trucks -- there is a section of brass to either end of the center/mounting hole of the truck, on the insulated piece. As I stated, a wire is soldered to the brass section nearest to center of the tender itself -- as there's a hole (I don't remember if I drilled it or whether it was already there -- check yours) about 3/16" to 1/4" in diameter in the center of the tender floor which these wires (one from each truck) are routed through. Then, there are two smaller holes at the front of the tender to either side, in the recess just above the platform under which the drawbar is attached. I guess you might regard that area as the tender's coal doors on those engines that were hand-fired, but of course not on an Allegheny which must have had a stoker. Anyway, the two wires are routed through these smaller holes (about 1/16" diameter) and female plugs are attached to the wire ends to mate with male plugs from the engine. I no longer have the plans for this Winton Brown version, but have them for my Ma Ra Allegheny, although I doubt this portion is the same. I will check them out though, and if useable, I'll send you a Ma Ra plan copy. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16351	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.

Attachments : IMG_6884_2_1.JPG IMG_6882_1_1.JPG Hi Nelson,      I want to make sure we are on the same page. Athearn had 4 versions of the 4-6-2 but only the last 3 were sold to the public . By 3rd one I am assuming you mean the last one sold to the public. 1962-1965.      The drivers on this version were solid blackened METAL with nickel rims. Remember this last  version had the entire electrical pick up in the engine and the solid metal drivers were needed to do that ( The tender on this version was along for the ride. )       I hope I am answering the question you ask .                                       Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16352	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal drivers.  I have one of each in my collection.  The plastic driver model is for display cases only, in my opinion.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI   In a message dated 3/23/2011 10:40:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, greenbrier614@... writes:   Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > Good luck. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16353	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

     Just to clarify the first TWO versions sold had plastic drivers, and both had tender electrical pick up. The first version had plastic drivers with no strip and the second had plastic drivers with a white strip. The last or 3rd version had metal drivers with electrical pick up in the engine only and the tender just went along for the ride.       In my opinion I agree that the neither plastic driver version were great  runners and the metal driver version not much better and why none of the versions lasted in production long . In fact along with the 0-6-0 and the 0-4-2 being far from decent and problems with the 4-6-2's is why Athearn stopped producing steam engines for a long time.                                                  Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal drivers.  I have one of each in my collection.  The plastic driver model is for display cases only, in my opinion.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI   In a message dated 3/23/2011 10:40:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, greenbrier614@... writes:   Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > Good luck. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16354	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jim, you are correct.  The Athearn steamers looked great, but were nothing but problems.  However the B&M Historical society published an article in their modeling newsletter on how to convert the Athearn 4-6-2 into a very nice running locomotive.  It is a dead ringer for a B&M Pacific.   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16355	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

My first ever H0 steamer was an Athearn 0-4-2T. That lasted less than a year, second steamer was an Athearn 0-4-2T, lasted even less (and mechanically they were different...I have bits of both, still). Basically, size of axles, opening in sideframes, how the sideframes mounted, etc. That said, figured I should have one to explain to folks how bad they were, so I got one, and even cleaned and lubed, it runs about as bad as I remember. So, I found an 0-6-0, that seems to run better. Someday, just so I can show all, I need to find one of them Pacifics. > Just to clarify the first TWO versions sold had plastic drivers, and both had tender electrical pick up. The first version had plastic drivers with no strip and the second had plastic drivers with a white strip. The last or 3rd version had metal drivers with electrical pick up in the engine only and the tender just went along for the ride. > > In my opinion I agree that the neither plastic driver version were great runners and the metal driver version not much better and why none of the versions lasted in production long . In fact along with the 0-6-0 and the 0-4-2 being far from decent and problems with the 4-6-2's is why Athearn stopped producing steam engines for a long time. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: corlissbs@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:28 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 > > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for display cases only, in my opinion. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI > > In a message dated 3/23/2011 10:40:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, greenbrier614@... writes: > > Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16356	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Brad, Did the Historical Society article discuss electrical and mechanical modifications? Also, what volume was it in? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Jim, you are correct. The Athearn steamers looked great, but were nothing > but problems. However the B&M Historical society published an article in > their modeling newsletter on how to convert the Athearn 4-6-2 into a very > nice running locomotive. It is a dead ringer for a B&M Pacific. > > Brad Smith >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16357	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Kurt:   It was about two years ago.  I just made a mental note of it.  I believe it ran in two of their issues.  Here is their web site.  You will have to contact them and purchase the back issues.  They did a very nice job of reworking the locomotive.   http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16358	From: docdenny34	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: >. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body.....;my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor. > The method that Winton used was to secure the trucks with a 4-40 screws inserted from below; and then above the floor apply, first an insulated washers (if "hat" insulated bushings are not already provided.. they should be), then a standard washer, then an open spring to take up the slack, and finishing with TWO hex nuts. Standard open-lug solder terminals are then secured between the two tightened nuts, the two lugs connected with a wire, and a final wire to the locomotive soldered to the forward lug. The tender body is neutral, and the power is transmitted only through the trucks' king pins. The wire can be snaked forward to the locomotive through a drilled hole in the tender floor; or through a hole in the face of the tender underneath the tender deck (this was an open area on the prototype occupied by the stoker screw and machinery. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16359	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Doctor Denny,        Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the explanation. One other Winton Allegheny owner , Ray F W. sent basically the same idea about putting the wiring inside the tender body and fishing it out the front end where he has a female connection to go into the engine's male connection. As you say the tender body remains neutral       I wonder, with the tender already assembled how possibly it would be to "fish " those wires through and out very small holes. Without disassembling and opening the tender body I won't be able to use the insulated washer, standard washer, the open spring for slack and the two hex nuts.  I might not be able to do it at this point in time.and might have to do something else but I really like to do things as they were originally done.      I will print out the description you sent for myself  Is there a drawing you have of the explanation you sent showing the set up  that was used by Winton that I could pay you for a copy of it so I have it in my files ?                                      Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: docdenny34 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: >. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body.....;my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor. > The method that Winton used was to secure the trucks with a 4-40 screws inserted from below; and then above the floor apply, first an insulated washers (if "hat" insulated bushings are not already provided.. they should be), then a standard washer, then an open spring to take up the slack, and finishing with TWO hex nuts. Standard open-lug solder terminals are then secured between the two tightened nuts, the two lugs connected with a wire, and a final wire to the locomotive soldered to the forward lug. The tender body is neutral, and the power is transmitted only through the trucks' king pins. The wire can be snaked forward to the locomotive through a drilled hole in the tender floor; or through a hole in the face of the tender underneath the tender deck (this was an open area on the prototype occupied by the stoker screw and machinery. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16360	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Doc Denny, I am confused, Doc. I believe that Jim H.'s truck bolster is non-conductive. How is the power conducted from the sideframe to the 4-40 screw in the first place? What piece of the puzzle am I missing? Sorry for being so obtuse! On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:49 AM, docdenny34 <danspach@...> wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: >. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body.....;my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor. > The method that Winton used was to secure the trucks with a 4-40 screws inserted from below; and then above the floor apply, first an insulated washers (if "hat" insulated bushings are not already provided.. they should be), then a standard washer, then an open spring to take up the slack, and finishing with TWO hex nuts. Standard open-lug solder terminals are then secured between the two tightened nuts, the two lugs connected with a wire, and a final wire to the locomotive soldered to the forward lug. The tender body is neutral, and the power is transmitted only through the trucks' king pins. The wire can be snaked forward to the locomotive through a drilled hole in the tender floor; or through a hole in the face of the tender underneath the tender deck (this was an open area on the prototype occupied by the stoker screw and machinery. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16361	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

There are five installments so far; the first being Issue 115 (July/August 2008) Jack Kelley --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Kurt: > > It was about two years ago. I just made a mental note of it. I believe > it ran in two of their issues. Here is their web site. You will have to > contact them and purchase the back issues. They did a very nice job of > reworking the locomotive. > > _http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/_ (http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/) > > Brad >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16362	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

On the web site they only seem to go to issue 75, although 74 has some modeling information on the P4. So do the subsequent issues commencing at 115 have any information on electrical/mechanical improvements? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Kelley" <jkelley01938@...> wrote: > > > There are five installments so far; the first being Issue 115 (July/August 2008) > > Jack Kelley > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > Kurt: > > > > It was about two years ago. I just made a mental note of it. I believe > > it ran in two of their issues. Here is their web site. You will have to > > contact them and purchase the back issues. They did a very nice job of > > reworking the locomotive. > > > > _http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/_ (http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/) > > > > Brad > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16363	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim, in a similar situation on a locomotive that I built, I used a very flexible hookup wire with dark gray or black covering from the frame of one truck to the frame of the next truck and from the front truck out to the front end of the tender where I fastened the wire to a bracket on the back side of a front step and then left slack enough to allow for taking curves and still connect to the wire coming from the loco.  This allows for running and does not alter anything. Don Staton in Va. Beach, Va. =========================================================================== On 3/24/2011 12:40 PM, jim heckard wrote:       Doctor Denny,        Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the explanation. One other Winton Allegheny owner , Ray F W. sent basically the same idea about putting the wiring inside the tender body and fishing it out the front end where he has a female connection to go into the engine's male connection. As you say the tender body remains neutral       I wonder, with the tender already assembled how possibly it would be to "fish " those wires through and out very small holes. Without disassembling and opening the tender body I won't be able to use the insulated washer, standard washer, the open spring for slack and the two hex nuts.  I might not be able to do it at this point in time.and might have to do something else but I really like to do things as they were originally done.      I will print out the description you sent for myself  Is there a drawing you have of the explanation you sent showing the set up  that was used by Winton that I could pay you for a copy of it so I have it in my files ?                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16364	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim, HH.   Jim,   The following link will take you to the tender truck connection for my Winton. Sorry, I took the pic with m cell so it's kinda crude, but it works...   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5556385395/    Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16365	From: VtHam	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16366	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@...> wrote: > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > Richard Hamann in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16367	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

I have presumed that the tender body itself can be removed from the tender floor simply by removing some screws in the corners, but perhaps Jim Heckard's  tender body has been soldered to the floor (Winton's instructions leave an awful lot of  specific assembly directions to the builder, which explains to a great part why no two of these locomotives are built alike).  If so, the fat is in the fire as to just how to secure the trucks to the tender. If not, then the fastening of the trucks and the wiring can be easily done with the tender body out of the way. IF the tender body cannot be removed, then a good Plan B would be to take the insulated body bolsters, drill and tap them for 6-32 screws (4-40 will not work because they are already drilled clear), and then firmly cement the bolsters in place with either Barge Cement or epoxy (Barge would be better).  This would obviate any need for any internal nuts or wiring.  Then solder or fasten wire from one truck bolster (the truck -not the body- bolsters are brass)  to the next on to the locomotive. The tenders did not change a great deal between the two Winton models- the wrappers are largely if not exactly the same, while the truck frames and other cast details changed a great deal.  The truck mountings also did not change in any significant way.   The internal method of wiring that I have described was what I have found in an original Winton model, the first  such assembled of second version marketed by MaRa; and as as been increasingly likely, assembled with some  Winton consultation or oversight. The wiring connection to the locomotive was through a simple axial plug connection.  The locomotive wire was soldered to the end of a water pipe so that it looked "natural". Manufacturer and builder lived only miles apart, and both were fellows in the very close knit circle of Bay Area brass custom locomotive builders that existed there at the time. As I have before mentioned, this is the exact finished locomotive model depicted in MaRa's advertisements. A local friend has two of the first 2-6-6-6s, and the comparison between the two versions is fascinating. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16368	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Also, does anyone know if these articles cover modifications for all versions of the Pacific, or just one? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16369	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > display cases only, in my opinion. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16370	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Decision made on Winton tender trucks

Attachments : IMG_6891_3_1.JPG IMG_6887_2_1.JPG IMG_6885_1_1.JPG          I have decided how I will attach the original Winton Allegheny tender trucks to my tender that had the "fill in" trucks on it. Thanks to the many people, even from other sites, I have made a decision how I will do it. If finally got a little get up and go to start the project.      The idea I will use will most closely follow one that was suggested . I would have liked to use Denny A or Ray F W  ideas of running the wires through the tender body but didn't think I could do it that way because tender was completed and I didn't want to open it up or try to fish the wires through.. Let me use the pictures to try to explain how I will accomplish attaching the original trucks.      First thing is I am cleaning the black paint off the original trucks to show the brass and I have also checked to make sure everything including tender trucks can be used to pick up electricity from the rails and get it to the motor in the engine with no shorts.      First picture shows the Winton tender from my engine sitting on track with the "fill in" trucks I was using. In front are the 2 original Winton trucks I will be using and the Winton body that came with them ( which is already sold.).     Second picture shows my engine and tender with the original Winton tender trucks under it to check the height with the engine.     Third picture shows the bottom of my Winton Allegheny tender with the original Winton trucks I will be putting on.       Now for what I will do. I was lucky to find that I had metal bolsters already under my tender that conduct electricity and are threaded. After taking roughly 1/32 to 1 /16 of the top of the bolsters where the screws go and making the even so both trucks sit exactly at the same height where the top of the tender will be level I will put the trucks on using screws that will have a washer under the head. These washers will have skinny flexible wire soldered to them and a length to reach a metal area inside the trucks and solder it there ( somewhere between those insulated bolsters and the inside of the metal side frames ) allowing a little surplus for the trucks to  turn/swing freely. This way you will not see any of this connection from just looking at the engine/tender from the side unless you pick the tender up and turn it completely over.       Should be a fairly easy job to do and not take a lot of time. When done I just attach the wire coming from the engine / motor back into the threaded hole at the front of the tender and if all goes well have the electric pick up I need from tender wheel on the rail up to the motor in the cab which has the other pickup from the engine itself.      If any one sees a flaw in this plan speak up. I'm 99.99% sure it will work as I had it "jury rigged" at first to see before the final connections are done.                                       Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16371	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson, how is your slow speed running with the plastic drivered unit? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > > display cases only, in my opinion. > > > > Brad Smith > > Franklin, WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16372	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.

Thanks Jim, you nailed it. You assumed right. I was referring to the final run, since the 1st version was only an prototype model that never saw the light of day, so I don't think of it as a legit version. Thanks for the sharp closeups... I didn't expect you to go to that kind of trouble. In every photo I'd seen of these the centers just looked black, so I assumed they just modified the molds for the plastic drivers, and stuck metal rims on them. They're a lot nicer than the plastic, and look a lot like Mantua's Boxpoks. The only advantage to the plastic drivers was the keying Athearn used that allows them to be easily removed without worrying about quartering. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, > > I want to make sure we are on the same page. Athearn had 4 versions of the 4-6-2 but only the last 3 were sold to the public . By 3rd one I am assuming you mean the last one sold to the public. 1962-1965. > > The drivers on this version were solid blackened METAL with nickel rims. Remember this last version had the entire electrical pick up in the engine and the solid metal drivers were needed to do that ( The tender on this version was along for the ride. ) > > I hope I am answering the question you ask . > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16373	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

It's quite good, although it has to be throttled back when it warms up because the speed increases. I lightened up the spring pressure on the brushes (like most open frame motors, the spring tension is much greater than necessary), and keep the commutator oil free for maximum torque. There's no hesitation, though. The pickup in the tender works very well, but did take some adjusting. I think I was lucky that the unit I bought was exceptionally clean, so there was no tarnish on the truck bolsters to insulate them from the tender frame. I also used a little conductive lube on the axle points & bolsters for good measure. The biggest problem was adjusting the drawbar so that it didn't rest on the trailing truck and lift the tender, or cause derailments in reverse. I don't know if there was originally a spring for the trailing truck, but there are provisions for it, so I installed a small coil spring between it and the drawbar, and that seemed to help it track better with the drawbar bent upwards a bit. The stiffness of the wires between the engine and tender can be a problem too, and if not routed properly seemed to cause the tender to tip and lose contact on curves. Smaller gauge wire would cause less interference. I think I also polished the tender wheels with a Dremel brush. Just my 2 cents. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Nelson, how is your slow speed running with the plastic drivered unit? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. > > > > Nelson > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > > > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > > > display cases only, in my opinion. > > > > > > Brad Smith > > > Franklin, WI > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16374	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson, thank you for that. I've struggled with the same problem, further aggravated by two 90 degree crossings in series at the WRJ station. The wheel span of the tender just does not seem to always manage to cope. So I fitted metal wheels and wipers on the leading and trailing trucks on the locomotive. At first it was a derailment disaster but then I learned to use very, very light wire. That did the trick. Last week I replaced the motor with a cheap ($5) can motor and the locomotive can now actually crawl over my less than perfect track work. The current draw is down to 0.2Amp. Cheers, Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > It's quite good, although it has to be throttled back when it warms up because the speed increases. I lightened up the spring pressure on the brushes (like most open frame motors, the spring tension is much greater than necessary), and keep the commutator oil free for maximum torque. There's no hesitation, though. > > The pickup in the tender works very well, but did take some adjusting. I think I was lucky that the unit I bought was exceptionally clean, so there was no tarnish on the truck bolsters to insulate them from the tender frame. I also used a little conductive lube on the axle points & bolsters for good measure. The biggest problem was adjusting the drawbar so that it didn't rest on the trailing truck and lift the tender, or cause derailments in reverse. I don't know if there was originally a spring for the trailing truck, but there are provisions for it, so I installed a small coil spring between it and the drawbar, and that seemed to help it track better with the drawbar bent upwards a bit. The stiffness of the wires between the engine and tender can be a problem too, and if not routed properly seemed to cause the tender to tip and lose contact on curves. Smaller gauge wire would cause less interference. I think I also polished the tender wheels with a Dremel brush. > > Just my 2 cents. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Nelson, how is your slow speed running with the plastic drivered unit? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > > > > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > > > > display cases only, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > Brad Smith > > > > Franklin, WI > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16375	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Decision made on Winton tender trucks

Very interesting photos.  The detailed cast brass trucks (with sprung three axle Buckeye truck)  in the background are most probably also Winton. They seem to be identical to those supplied with the 2nd generation Allegheny.  I was mistaken when I described the truck bolster as brass and the body bolster as insulated - this is what it is on my Winton tender, and what I recall was on an earlier tender owned by an elderly friend.  By the photograph provided, it is obvious that on Jim Heckard's tender, it is just the reverse.  I spent some time and finally located  the instructions for the earlier Winton, and the instructions (undated) depict exactly the same trucks that JH has;  and the instructions  for wiring -brief!- are as JH proposes:  "14.  Since the tender body is fully insulated from the truck it will be necessary to solder a pick up wire on the front truck bolster          and run it to the locomotive. (This wire not furnished). " From these instructions, I would presume that Winton thought that just picking up power from the front truck alone sufficed. I wonder whether or not that in the  slow transition between the two versions, Winton might not have supplied a mix of parts as the parts became available. For the first time in my hands, I  recently partially dismantled my MaRa Allegheny for some heavy maintenance.  There were a number of very interesting, and some surprising findings, not the least of which was a reminder once again of the superb engineering.   I plan to report more fully soon.   Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16376	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Winton Allegheny Versions ???

Attachments : IMG_6916_1.JPG Denny A, All,           Before I explain the picture above I want to thank Denny A for his responses concerning the Winton Allegheny and versions. It is because of these types of exchanges we learn more all the time and are able to distinguish fact from fiction.       I know over many years I assumed things I would hear about this Winton Allegheny and it was hard to tell if it was the truth.  While we have discussed this engine in the past ( and I have printed out everything Dr Ansbach has stated ) it seems there is still much to learn. I hope what I had shared has helped him in return. I doubt we will ever get everything down pat 100% but it won't be because we didn't try      First it was interesting now to learn the "fill in" front truck I had on my Winton tender might be a Winton item used on the MaRa version. I want to let Denny know this truck has JAPAN stamped on the underside. I don't know if that would mean it was or wasn't used on the last version Winton Allegheny.       Denny also mentioned how it seemed Winton Brown left things off his plans that made the builder complete the engine using whatever way the builder wanted to go. I had always wondered if the reason he never listed how to finish these things was he never knew how to do it even to the point I wondered if he ever built one of his own engines.       I want to reprint the first page of my 5 page printed instructions ( which came with 5 huge assembly sheets of drawings )entitled                                                                   " Introduction "       " This kit is designed for the  man who has experience in building model locomotives or equal mechanical ability.  It is not intended to give step by step instruction but rather leave the actual construction to the builder. This gives the builder the chance to express his own ideas and not to copy the manufacturer. The principal thing is to have a good operating locomotive regardless of the method used. These instructions are the foundation from which you can build to suit your own individual desire.  GOOD LUCK.       This will explain why no two finished engines are done exactly the same.        Now onto the picture which was sent by a friend in CA to the HOSC&H-SIG  with the possibility that there were 3 versions of the Winton Allegheny. The top picture is the first version like I have with no castings in the kit. The last picture I believe is the Ma Ra  version with lost wax castings. ( final version )      It is the middle picture that became the discussion piece with no final conclusion. Was it a middle Winton Allegheny version or had someone started to modify it using the main Winton parts ?  Open for any discussion .                                              Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16377	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Update for Ulrich Cars list

Today I picked up an Ulrich GS 52' Gondola Road C&S Number 17235 Color Tuscan This is listed as Kit 115 Cat # GS-9 on line 295 Seq 294 of the file V List Ulrich cars.xls in the files section of the group. The above information is missing. Appears in the 1959 catalog listing, road name not listed in the 1960 catalog. (Ref HOSeeker.com) Howard Garner sometime collector

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16378	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16379	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

In your maintenance examine all the plastic bushings that join the axles together, especially the one with the gear on it.  Most of mine wound up with split bushings and split gears and the half axles fell out...  Even on those that had never been run. I used the first issue with the large metal gear to re-power a Hudson using a plastic Berkshire boiler.  I did several modifications along the way and it turned out to run real well.  It has been so long that I do not remember all the things I did to it... The two most useful things I did was to glue shims on the cover plate at the axle center lines to remove the bearing slop and attach the lead truck with a spring wire attached to a screw at the front of the cover plate and a screw on the truck frame.  Both things made the loco track much better. I wonder it we could get permission to reproduce those articles on this forum so the many of us interested might get the benefit of them?  I still have several locomotives I have never done anything further with. Don Staton in Va. Beach, Va. ================================================================================================ On 3/26/2011 8:30 PM, Richard wrote:   Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16380	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All,       I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2  having plastic drivers.       With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers .      As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with.      I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands.      But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered.  The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the  metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.)      Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I  hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.)                                       Jim H.         ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16381	From: VtHam	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

I just found out that Part 5, of Dave McMullians article in B&M'a Modelers Notes has been published in their January - February issue #130, if anyone is interested. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16382	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Have you considered using plastic chain instead of rubber bands, such as the ones in MicroMarks catalog? Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 > > > > Kurt, Nelson and others, > Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: > 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. > 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. > 3) Body and chassis modifications. > 4) Detailing > 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. > The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16383	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Casting a Pilot?

I have a very old Aristocraft 4-4-2 that took an unfortunate dive to the floor and broke off it's pilot. I also have another exact same engine with a good pilot. I keep looking at the good one and wondering if there is a way to make a casting of the pilot for the broken engine. Has anyone on this list every done anything like this. If so, would you please tell me how it's done. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16384	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Hi Jim, Just a thought on your Rube Goldberg RBD.  KISS -- keep it really simple and easy to demonstrate how to assemble with a minimum of explanation.  At the time those pacifics were designed Irv had a work force largely composed of Mexican "green card" workers who crossed the border either daily or weekly, took the train to LA and worked off all those burritos.  The ladies did good work and became quite skilled with time but they were not well educated or exceptionally literate in English.   For driver axles - you can fill the centers of the original drum axles (use the Hustler or RDC RBD axles from athearn parts) with Versa Chem Plastic Welder and then bore/drill the centers to size to fit the plastic drivers.  The stuff is used to repair plastic auto parts and has a 3500 PSI strength factor and after 2 or 3 days room temp dry time has negligible shrinkage with age. Just a thought or two. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16385	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Clever idea, but just one thought. The drum diameter on the drivers cannot be the same as the tender because of the larger driver diameter. If you make the drum diameter the same the linear velocity of the drivers will be much greater than that of the tender wheels. The axle drums will need to be much larger, i.e. "higher gear ratio" to slow the drivers down so they're trying to move down the track at the same speed as the tender trucks. Then there's the question of, with no outside frame, how would the powered axles in the locomotive be supported? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) Jim H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16386	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Oh Don, you're just trying to wake me up and get Al Zeimer to go home aren't you? Let's start with a new look - let's start with making the driving shaft (motor) and the driven shaft (driver axle) the same diameter and use the existing driver mountings for the boiler.  That reduces the problem (after a number of calculations).  That would get us to a question of how many revolutions of the tender wheel does it take equal one revolution of the loco drivers. Once we get there we need to increase the circumference of the driving shaft in the tender propotionately.  I am not a math whiz but it seems like if the circumference of the drivers is 5x the circmference of the tender wheels we would need to increase the circumference of the tender driving shaft to produce 5 revolutions of the tender wheels each time the drivers rotate once.  I know that is really over simplifying the question but that is where I would start.  Mic the drivers and mic the tender wheels, determine the circumference of each and based on the ration of the two - increase the circumference of the drive shaft in the tender proportionatley.  Maybe? I thk I'm getting to old for this deep thinking in the wee hours. . . . Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16387	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /V List Ulrich cars.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of Ulrich cars and models You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/V%20List%20Ulrich%20cars.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16388	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Update for Ulrich Cars list

Thanks Howard,   The file has been updated to reflect this information.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Howard R Garner Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Update for Ulrich Cars list     Today I picked up an Ulrich GS 52' Gondola Road C&S Number 17235 Color Tuscan This is listed as Kit 115 Cat # GS-9 on line 295 Seq 294 of the file V List Ulrich cars.xls in the files section of the group. The above information is missing. Appears in the 1959 catalog listing, road name not listed in the 1960 catalog. (Ref HOSeeker.com) Howard Garner sometime collector

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16389	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Hi Richard,        The main reason I'm even fooling around with this is to see if an Athearn Pacific could be powered using  Rubber Band Drive. Using chain would defeat the purpose.                                   Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:05 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Have you considered using plastic chain instead of rubber bands, such as the ones in MicroMarks catalog? Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 > > > > Kurt, Nelson and others, > Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: > 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. > 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. > 3) Body and chassis modifications. > 4) Detailing > 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. > The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16390	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Hi Don,       Like I said, Still work to do, ideas and designs to try, to get it to work.           I realize that the RPM of the motor drives those metal drive shafts the same speed and that they are the same OD. I know the OD of the Tender wheels ( wheel and axle ) have already been  engineered by Athearn and work .  I can run the tender powered with the drivers in the engine free wheeling. Only thing I have to decide here is to RBD power 2 or 4 tender axle. Still toying around with that.      Now onto the Plastic drivers. which also having a much larger OD can't run at the same speeds with the axle for them being the same as the tender trucks. This is a starting point shall we say as I intend to play with the diameter or the driver axles to try to get the speed equalized. I intend that the Plastic Driver axle OD with need to be changed to accomplish this and is where I am playing around. I am planning to use only one RBD driver but that could change as I fool around.       I'm slightly lost at you  saying " with no outside frame , how would the powered axle(s) be supported. ( Tender or Engine ??? )First the Driver axles would still be held in place by the plastic piece holding all the drivers in place now. ( While it is not my option remember that  Athearn RBD engines it is the band holding the trucks of the diesels to the engine and when it breaks the wheels with their frames fall off can fall off   After I read the 2 emails still waiting from Jake I will send a picture of what I have just tried to explain using a first version Athearn Pacific from my collection, not this sorry looking prototype. I should have sent it with this message but forgot to take it.                                                                   Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Clever idea, but just one thought. The drum diameter on the drivers cannot be the same as the tender because of the larger driver diameter. If you make the drum diameter the same the linear velocity of the drivers will be much greater than that of the tender wheels. The axle drums will need to be much larger, i.e. "higher gear ratio" to slow the drivers down so they're trying to move down the track at the same speed as the tender trucks. Then there's the question of, with no outside frame, how would the powered axles in the locomotive be supported? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) Jim H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16391	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: First version Athearn Pacific

Attachments : IMG_6921_2.JPG IMG_6920_1.JPG   Richard, Don, Jake,        The picture I sent is the bottom of the Athearn Pacific 1st version from my collection and not the piece of " basket case" I am working with.         Again I am trying to create an Athearn RBD Pacific that "might" be something like Athearn tried to do (all guessing ). I am not a mathematician nor a design engine. Most of what I am doing in this case is to try something to see if it works or gets better or worse. While maybe I should do precise figuring ( rotation and speed to be even ) and measure ( micrometer to get exact ) this is as I said a Rube Goldberg attempt to see if it is possible.  If I hit on something then it's back to  a better engine to work with and a more permanent prototype.         The picture shows the underside of the first version of the Athearn Pacific. Since I would be changing motor/ drive the large gear on the back driver will come off and have an axle replace it and become a dummy. It won't matter OD as I plan only trying to power one or both of the other plastic drivers.       Don    You will notice that there is a whole plastic piece spanning the 3 drivers which I plan on keeping to hold the drivers in  the slots of the frame.      You will also notice the two silver like metal drums that are part of the axles for the front two drivers. This is where I plan to get the drivers to spin the speed needed equal to the tender wheels. They will be cut or remade with lips on the edges to keep the rubber band(s) in place. It is the OD of these drums where I hope to change e speeds to equal tender and engine.       Of course I could be way off base in thinking that working this diameter will do what I want. Again if it doesn't work I'll try something else. AS to KISS I can't see a way to write less and still try to explain. Sorry I'll try to be brief next time. No matter I still have a Rubber Band Drive tender driven Athearn Pacific if I make the drivers free wheeling.                                                      Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16392	From: Richard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Athearn P-4 Modelers Notes Article

Anyone wanting copies of the articles can email Alden Dryer alden.javanet@... and he will make photos copies of them or any others. He has most of the B&M Modelers Notes, B&M Bulletins and also most B&M employee timetables. He has a $5.00 minimum. If interested, contact him at the above address. He does take PayPal if this helps. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16393	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..

I was visiting a friend last week who restored my Fairmont M19-AA speeder. (Real one) He'd been given a batch of stuff from the daughter of a recent widow who was going to junk it. My friend has modest if any interest, but took it because he's rebuilding an HO layout for his grandchildren. He had to, "take everything." So he reluctantly lugged home a 4x8 foot N gauge layout; all track in place with lots of switches and about 1/3 scenery. He doesn't want it. Next were two blue tin chests about 2x2x3 feet each. The first has an armload of old HO cars, most with Mantua couplers. (bingo) And a few half-built Varney car kits. Some little figures, handcar, misc small pieces too odd to list. Old power pack or two. Also a Mantua/Tyco Big Six and two Varney cast metal Docksides, one with a broken rear footboard. One standard size Mantua brass caboose, 'kinda dinged up. One Mantua early four-wheel brass caboose I've never seen before. One cast Mantua tender of the type that goes with the old Camel-Back 0-4-0; the type where the sides were separate flat pieces that attached with the ugly screws. Still good item. The second chest/trunk had inadvertently become locked so we could not open it. He doesn't want any of it and it's too old to interest his grandchildren. I offered him $50 for the whole thing but I have to take the N gauge layout. Too bad I haven't seen any real quality vintage steam power in the stuff. Likely there is none. Some of the built kit cars are fairly well done. A few appear to have card sides. Some of the trucks look like good ones but I didn't recognize any Central Valley which I always look for. I'll go pick them up early this week. I'm cautiously excited but also realize it's a grab-bag. I don't say much on this List, but couldn't resist speaking up this morning. Cheers, Dennis Odessa/Ritzville, E. WA state

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16394	From: garyp552002	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: HO signs

Hey Guys, Does anyone know of a site to print Western Union and Railway Express Agency signs in HO? Thanks for any help. GaryP

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16395	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]

Jim H. For what it's worth, I believe that, to get the drivers and the tender wheels to rotate at respective speeds such that the forward or backward speed of the loco and the tender will be the same, the proportion of the driver diameter to the tender wheel diameter must be equal to the proportion of the driver axle diameter to the tender axle diameter when the front and rear rods from the motor are the same diameter. Thus, if the driver is twice the diameter of the tender wheel, then the driver axle will have to be twice the diameter of the tender axle. Alternatively, if the rod from the motor to the drivers is made twice the diameter of the motor rod to the tender, then the axles of the loco drivers and the tender wheels must be the same. Regards, Walter On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:57 AM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]   Richard, Don, Jake,        The picture I sent is the bottom of the Athearn Pacific 1st version from my collection and not the piece of " basket case" I am working with.         Again I am trying to create an Athearn RBD Pacific that "might" be something like Athearn tried to do (all guessing ). I am not a mathematician nor a design engine. Most of what I am doing in this case is to try something to see if it works or gets better or worse. While maybe I should do precise figuring ( rotation and speed to be even ) and measure ( micrometer to get exact ) this is as I said a Rube Goldberg attempt to see if it is possible.  If I hit on something then it's back to  a better engine to work with and a more permanent prototype.         The picture shows the underside of the first version of the Athearn Pacific. Since I would be changing motor/ drive the large gear on the back driver will come off and have an axle replace it and become a dummy. It won't matter OD as I plan only trying to power one or both of the other plastic drivers.       Don    You will notice that there is a whole plastic piece spanning the 3 drivers which I plan on keeping to hold the drivers in  the slots of the frame.      You will also notice the two silver like metal drums that are part of the axles for the front two drivers. This is where I plan to get the drivers to spin the speed needed equal to the tender wheels. They will be cut or remade with lips on the edges to keep the rubber band(s) in place. It is the OD of these drums where I hope to change e speeds to equal tender and engine.       Of course I could be way off base in thinking that working this diameter will do what I want. Again if it doesn't work I'll try something else. AS to KISS I can't see a way to write less and still try to explain. Sorry I'll try to be brief next time. No matter I still have a Rubber Band Drive tender driven Athearn Pacific if I make the drivers free wheeling.                                                      Jim H     Attachment(s) from jim heckard 2 of 2 Photo(s) IMG_6920_1.JPG IMG_6921_2.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: New Members 4 New Photos 2 New Links 1 Visit Your Group MARKETPLACE Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center. Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16396	From: 23weldon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Casting a Pilot?

Richard - Try contacting Dennis Mashburn.  K & D Casting 3849 Westchester Dr. Abilene, Texas 79606 325-695-5584  He has a small cottage level brass investment casting operation well known for many years to the O scale folks.  He has the capability to make a wax mold from a cast part like a pilot and then invest the wax to make a casting.  Note that a part made this way may be slightly smaller than the original due to shrinkage. Dennis's business has been slow in recent months because last November he had bypass surgery.   Another possibility is http://stevensonpreservationlines.com/ This fellow is also an O scale guy.  He has a nice small foundry operation and is worth contacting.    Understand that making a custom casting that doesn't represent much opportunity for repeat business will be an expensive effort where all the tooling and setup costs have to be absorbed in one order.  The most economical approach is when your job can be fit in while other similar work is being done.  This means that some patience is called for.  Also note that both of the above are essentially one man operations.  Your work can be considerably delayed if the work time is not available for any reason such as illness or other events.  But both Mashburn and Stevenson are model railroaders, both are willing to do scales other than O and both are accomplished at this kind of investment casting.   Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16397	From: Bill Anderson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..

Dennis,   I am thinking you will be occupied for some time. Please keep the list updated on your discoveries.   Bill Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Thompson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:41 AM Subject: [vintageHO] New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..   I was visiting a friend last week who restored my Fairmont M19-AA speeder. (Real one) He'd been given a batch of stuff from the daughter of a recent widow who was going to junk it. My friend has modest if any interest, but took it because he's rebuilding an HO layout for his grandchildren. He had to, "take everything." So he reluctantly lugged home a 4x8 foot N gauge layout; all track in place with lots of switches and about 1/3 scenery. He doesn't want it. Next were two blue tin chests about 2x2x3 feet each. The first has an armload of old HO cars, most with Mantua couplers. (bingo) And a few half-built Varney car kits. Some little figures, handcar, misc small pieces too odd to list. Old power pack or two. Also a Mantua/Tyco Big Six and two Varney cast metal Docksides, one with a broken rear footboard. One standard size Mantua brass caboose, 'kinda dinged up. One Mantua early four-wheel brass caboose I've never seen before. One cast Mantua tender of the type that goes with the old Camel-Back 0-4-0; the type where the sides were separate flat pieces that attached with the ugly screws. Still good item. The second chest/trunk had inadvertently become locked so we could not open it. He doesn't want any of it and it's too old to interest his grandchildren. I offered him $50 for the whole thing but I have to take the N gauge layout. Too bad I haven't seen any real quality vintage steam power in the stuff. Likely there is none. Some of the built kit cars are fairly well done. A few appear to have card sides. Some of the trucks look like good ones but I didn't recognize any Central Valley which I always look for. I'll go pick them up early this week. I'm cautiously excited but also realize it's a grab-bag. I don't say much on this List, but couldn't resist speaking up this morning. Cheers, Dennis Odessa/Ritzville, E. WA state

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16398	From: Glenn	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]

Someplace I have most  of an Athearn Pacific—when I find it I’ll toss it to the group-  “jump ball”-gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 7:57 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]   Richard, Don, Jake,        The picture I sent is the bottom of the Athearn Pacific 1st version from my collection and not the piece of " basket case" I am working with.        Again I am trying to create an Athearn RBD Pacific that "might" be something like Athearn tried to do (all guessing ). I am not a mathematician nor a design engine. Most of what I am doing in this case is to try something to see if it works or gets better or worse. While maybe I should do precise figuring ( rotation and speed to be even ) and measure ( micrometer to get exact ) this is as I said a Rube Goldberg attempt to see if it is possible.  If I hit on something then it's back to  a better engine to work with and a more permanent prototype.         The picture shows the underside of the first version of the Athearn Pacific. Since I would be changing motor/ drive the large gear on the back driver will come off and have an axle replace it and become a dummy. It won't matter OD as I plan only trying to power one or both of the other plastic drivers.       Don    You will notice that there is a whole plastic piece spanning the 3 drivers which I plan on keeping to hold the drivers in  the slots of the frame.      You will also notice the two silver like metal drums that are part of the axles for the front two drivers. This is where I plan to get the drivers to spin the speed needed equal to the tender wheels. They will be cut or remade with lips on the edges to keep the rubber band(s) in place. It is the OD of these drums where I hope to change e speeds to equal tender and engine.       Of course I could be way off base in thinking that working this diameter will do what I want. Again if it doesn't work I'll try something else. AS to KISS I can't see a way to write less and still try to explain. Sorry I'll try to be brief next time. No matter I still have a Rubber Band Drive tender driven Athearn Pacific if I make the drivers free wheeling.                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16399	From: wjclaasen@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs

Gary, Regarding the Western Union and REA signs in HO, try Blairline.com. Checkout the "Signs for Railroad Station". Walt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16400	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs

Walt. Thanks for the info. Gary --- On Sun, 3/27/11, wjclaasen@... <wjclaasen@...> wrote: From: wjclaasen@... <wjclaasen@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO signs To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 7:05 PM   Gary, Regarding the Western Union and REA signs in HO, try Blairline.com. Checkout the "Signs for Railroad Station". Walt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16401	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jim, I think your shop needs a neon sign above the entrance that reads "Warning: Mad Scientist At Work." ;-) Seriously, though, do you think it's necessary to power the drivers and the tender wheels? I would think that powering the drivers would be sufficient, since I haven't had any traction issues with mine. It pulls well, and has been run a good bit... the biggest problem is the low torque hi-fi motor. Do you have any information that indicates they tried powering all the wheels at once, as opposed to experimenting with engine or tender drives separately? Whichever way you slice it, that loco is going to be speedy. I hope the side rods stay on. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16402	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Thanks for that info, Rich. I have the first production model with the gear on the rear driver, so remotoring is more difficult due to the lack of a gearbox. I think the hardest part would be removing the worm from the motor shaft, because it's long and fitted very tightly... I started to damage the back of it when I tried it, but fortunately it has a long unthreaded collar section, so the teeth aren't damaged. Maybe heat would help free it. Btw, did the tender on yours have only 4 wheel pickup? Mine uses all 8 tender wheels. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Kurt, Nelson and others, > Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: > 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. > 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. > 3) Body and chassis modifications. > 4) Detailing > 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. > The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16403	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Red Ball Quikits

Hello- Can anyone tell me how a Red Ball "Quikit" differs from a "regular" Red Ball kit? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16404	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: HO signs

Attachments : telegraph13.jpg telegraph12.jpg reversetelegraph.jpg railwayexpresslogo.jpg See attached   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16405	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Repair technique

As mentioned earlier, I'm working on 2 Bev-Bel boxcar kits. Not following the instructions, I decided to drill the mounting holes for the grab irons at the bottom of the cast metal ends before epoxying them to the basic boxes. After drilling a few holes, the #77 bit broke in one of the holes. Nowheres near enough left to grasp and pull out. I'm considering drilling a much larger hole from the back, hopefully including the piece of broken bit, then filling the resulting hole with epoxy and THEN drilling the cured epoxy for the grab. In fact, I'm thinking of doing that for all the holes in the ends. Does anyone know of a better way to solve my problem? I'll bet I'm not the only one who's broken these tiny bits off. Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16406	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson,        My wife calls me mad already but surely not a scientist although she does have a few names she uses.         As for powering both the tender wheels and the engine drivers has to do with I want to see if it can be done. A lot of discussion went on in the past as how Athearn even accomplish that in their failed RBD Pacific that was never sold. Their engineers chucked the whole idea and went a different route. Those later version, to me,not much better..Some people said they have seen them. One person said he had one. One person said one was at a train show in CA but not for sale, just show. Others explained how they work  I have not received one shred of  concrete evidence from any one. No picture or paperwork. Not even a drawing.       I knew there would be problems before I started to power both tender and engine especially because of the OD of the Drivers versus the tender wheels. I just thought it would be fun to see what I could come up with. Yet most times you need others to look and they will see things you might not. Did you notice how quick members of this and other Yahoo sites saw  problems especially when I said I would make an axle for the plastic drivers the same OD as the tender wheel axles. They were paying attention and see how fast I got great responses and good ideas.      As for speedy only if you let the power wide open. If I get this running it will be at minimal power settings on the transformer. I don't care if  ever "finish" it. It will just be a conversation piece.                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Jim, I think your shop needs a neon sign above the entrance that reads "Warning: Mad Scientist At Work." ;-) Seriously, though, do you think it's necessary to power the drivers and the tender wheels? I would think that powering the drivers would be sufficient, since I haven't had any traction issues with mine. It pulls well, and has been run a good bit... the biggest problem is the low torque hi-fi motor. Do you have any information that indicates they tried powering all the wheels at once, as opposed to experimenting with engine or tender drives separately? Whichever way you slice it, that loco is going to be speedy. I hope the side rods stay on. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16407	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

Carl, I've drilled a ton of holes in all kinds of metals involving HO trains, and the worst is the soft white metal that freezes up the drill bit because of the heat and the fact that the chips do not eject well. I subscribe to the old adage: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." You really must use a light oil (I do prefer the gear cutting oil from any hardware store). A small drop on the spot to be drilled works wonders and greatly prolongs the life of the bit. Then go slowly and withdraw the bit once or twice to bring out the chips as you go along. That said, I would NOT go to all the trouble to drill large holes and then fill them in with epoxy (or whatever) and then re-drill with smaller holes. I can almost guarantee you that you will not be happy with the results for more reasons than I want to get into here. Furthermore, if you can access the back of the piece with the broken bit in it you get drill a larger hole behind the broken bit till you get to the tip of the bit (you won't be able to go further because the broken steel bit will stop the invading drill from the back). At that point you should be able work the broken bit the rest of the way through or push it out from the back. If that doesn't work you can always do what I have often done, and that is to simply drill another hole close to the first one and adjust your positioning of the grabs from there. Virtually no one will know the difference--especially when it's painted. Again, I strongly advise you NOT to drill all large holes and fill them in with some substance! The result will be more objectionable than re-drilling very closely to the old hole. Good luck with it in any case!   Art W   n a message dated 3/28/2011 2:17:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cmneste@... writes: As mentioned earlier, I'm working on 2 Bev-Bel boxcar kits. Not following the instructions, I decided to drill the mounting holes for the grab irons at the bottom of the cast metal ends before epoxying them to the basic boxes. After drilling a few holes, the #77 bit broke in one of the holes. Nowheres near enough left to grasp and pull out. I'm considering drilling a much larger hole from the back, hopefully including the piece of broken bit, then filling the resulting hole with epoxy and THEN drilling the cured epoxy for the grab. In fact, I'm thinking of doing that for all the holes in the ends. Does anyone know of a better way to solve my problem? I'll bet I'm not the only one who's broken these tiny bits off. Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16408	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

Carl- I've found I break a lot fewer of those tiny bits when I drill using my Micro-Mark drill press. Sometimes a little thread-cutting oil helps too. Good luck- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16409	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

Carl, To follow up on my comments, Richard White is absolutely correct--using the drill press almost always is best when possible. And I love the gear cutting oil because it smells like an honest-to-god machine shop! Might as well pretend you're doing real back shop work all the way!   Art W     In a message dated 3/28/2011 3:50:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, toytrain13@... writes: Carl- I've found I break a lot fewer of those tiny bits when I drill using my Micro-Mark drill press. Sometimes a little thread-cutting oil helps too. Good luck- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16410	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

If I remember rightly, (lat time I built one was about '78), the Quik Kit had a solid wood block that you glued sides, ends & roof to, otherwise about the same as regular kit. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16411	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

As others have said, I think it's the ratio of the size of the axle drum to the wheel diameter that's the critical part. It will be interesting to find out if they designed the tender wheels and drivers to turn at the same speed. If it works, try drag racing a Hustler. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > My wife calls me mad already but surely not a scientist although she does have a few names she uses. > > As for powering both the tender wheels and the engine drivers has to do with I want to see if it can be done. A lot of discussion went on in the past as how Athearn even accomplish that in their failed RBD Pacific that was never sold. Their engineers chucked the whole idea and went a different route. Those later version, to me,not much better..Some people said they have seen them. One person said he had one. One person said one was at a train show in CA but not for sale, just show. Others explained how they work I have not received one shred of concrete evidence from any one. No picture or paperwork. Not even a drawing. > > I knew there would be problems before I started to power both tender and engine especially because of the OD of the Drivers versus the tender wheels. I just thought it would be fun to see what I could come up with. Yet most times you need others to look and they will see things you might not. Did you notice how quick members of this and other Yahoo sites saw problems especially when I said I would make an axle for the plastic drivers the same OD as the tender wheel axles. They were paying attention and see how fast I got great responses and good ideas. > > As for speedy only if you let the power wide open. If I get this running it will be at minimal power settings on the transformer. I don't care if ever "finish" it. It will just be a conversation piece. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16412	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

<If it works, try drag racing a Hustler.>   Or the Tyco modified Hustler with the propeller.   When I was a teen, I thought about putting the rubber axle drum/spacer on the upper shaft to make the Hustler go faster.   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16413	From: Matthew	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

My father taught me to use beeswax, not oil, when working with "wire size" drills (#60 and up), especially in soft metals. I have a 10-lb block of beeswax that I got in 1977 and it is still 99% unused. A little goes a long way. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Carl- I've found I break a lot fewer of those tiny bits when I drill using my Micro-Mark drill press. Sometimes a little thread-cutting oil helps too. Good luck- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16414	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Ulrich C&SW GS Gondola

The Ulrich C&S GS gondola that I reported on a couple days ago I have decided that I did not need in my collection. It is presently listed on ebay along with a few other vintage items. May these all go to a good home. Howard Garner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16415	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

The QuicKits were marketed by us (Wabash Valley Lines,Inc) in the late 70s after purchase of Red Ball from Howell Day (1976). The decision had been made to ONLY make woodn sided reefers and boxcars (silk screened then, later, pad printed) and we had tons (literally) of printed card side inventory. It made sense to develop a low priced kit line to introduce beginning modellers to kit building since "real kits" were beginning to escalate in price and early plastic was the only thing to ber had in entry level price range. The sides retailed for 59c a pair and the bodies were in the $2-3 range. At first the carbody was made of a small wooden box cut to size and glued together by our employees in Roanoke, IN. The model builder glued on the wood roof, cast metal ends, card sides and underbody details (floor was part of the pre made box), ladders etc. There were standard reefer sizes (Red Ball kits had a unique size to most every one of the 200 + reefers): 34, 36.38 and 40 foot. Boxcars were 34,36 and 40 foot standard box sizes. The boxes were made of 1/4" pine "lattice" wood that we surfaced with a planer in our wood shop. In time I changed the design to a solid poplar block cut from kiln dried inch+ thick plank stock surfaced both sides to the required car width . We cut the wood into solid rectangular stock and milled out the inside to form a large solid "U" of the floor and sides. The U was quite sturdy for easy attachment of roof sides and ends. It was also less prone to shipping damage. This "U" design was also used for the Red Ball express reefers with cast metal sides for several years.(Of course those blocks were quite different dimensions than either the reefers or boxcars). The QuicKits were continued until a) the supply of Howell Day printed sides limited the road choices; b) plastic kit technology and wider availability (particularly the "Train Miniature" brand that offered a wide choice of roads) and c) Labor costs made it impractical to continue the line. We paid higher than minimum wage, but min wage was jumping appreeciably every year (causing "higher than" to jump. An increase of 20c in labor forced a price increase of $1 as the line was sold through distributors and dealers. We shifted that intended focus to a complementary plastic KIT line from Cannonball at a time when plastic KITS were still not so accepted. (I'm referring to KITS with many parts as opposed to the Athearn, MDC and Train Miniature "shake the box" kits. The QuicKits were successful in their objective as we tracked continuing sales of the wood and metal Red Ball kits to the areas where QuicKits were particularly popular. "Regular" Red Ball boxcar and reefer wood and metal kits (1976-2009) had a traditional flat wood floor and end block construction design. It wasn't nearly as "Quick" to build. Most had no interior support for the scribed wood sides. Some had scribed roofs requiring support "rafters" (longitudinal). Most had special design features and there were not "standard" body kits with simply different sides attached. Exceptions abounded as each was unique and the cast metal sided express reefers are one exception noted above. There were well over 300 unque Red Ball cars during this period and less than a couple dozen allowed close to "standard" kit design. Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse (operator of Wabash Valley Lines and Red Ball 1976-2009) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hello- Can anyone tell me how a Red Ball "Quikit" differs from a "regular" Red Ball kit? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16416	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

On 3/29/2011 5:06 PM, Model RailRoad wrote: > The QuicKits were marketed by us (Wabash Valley Lines,Inc) in the > late 70s after purchase of Red Ball from Howell Day (1976). The > decision had been made to ONLY make woodn sided reefers and boxcars > (silk screened then, later, pad printed) and we had tons (literally) > of printed card side inventory. It made sense to develop a low priced > kit line to introduce beginning modellers to kit building since "real > kits" were beginning to escalate in price and early plastic was the > only thing to ber had in entry level price range. The sides retailed > for 59c a pair and the bodies were in the $2-3 range. At first the > carbody was made of a small wooden box cut to size and glued together > by our employees in Roanoke, IN. The model builder glued on the wood > roof, cast metal ends, card sides and underbody details (floor was > part of the pre made box), ladders etc. There were standard reefer > sizes (Red Ball kits had a unique size to most every one of the 200 + > reefers): 34, 36.38 and 40 foot. Boxcars were 34,36 and 40 foot > standard box sizes. The boxes were made of 1/4" pine "lattice" wood > that we surfaced with a planer in our wood shop. In time I changed > the design to a solid poplar block cut from kiln dried inch+ thick > plank stock surfaced both sides to the required car width . We cut > the wood into solid rectangular stock and milled out the inside to > form a large solid "U" of the floor and sides. The U was quite sturdy > for easy attachment of roof sides and ends. It was also less prone to > shipping damage. This "U" design was also used for the Red Ball > express reefers with cast metal sides for several years.(Of course > those blocks were quite different dimensions than either the reefers > or boxcars). The QuicKits were continued until a) the supply of > Howell Day printed sides limited the road choices; b) plastic kit > technology and wider availability (particularly the "Train Miniature" > brand that offered a wide choice of roads) and c) Labor costs made it > impractical to continue the line. We paid higher than minimum wage, > b! ut min wage was jumping appreeciably every year (causing "higher > than" to jump. An increase of 20c in labor forced a price increase of > $1 as the line was sold through distributors and dealers. We shifted > that intended focus to a complementary plastic KIT line from > Cannonball at a time when plastic KITS were still not so accepted. > (I'm referring to KITS with many parts as opposed to the Athearn, MDC > and Train Miniature "shake the box" kits. The QuicKits were > successful in their objective as we tracked continuing sales of the > wood and metal Red Ball kits to the areas where QuicKits were > particularly popular. > > "Regular" Red Ball boxcar and reefer wood and metal kits (1976-2009) > had a traditional flat wood floor and end block construction design. > It wasn't nearly as "Quick" to build. Most had no interior support > for the scribed wood sides. Some had scribed roofs requiring support > "rafters" (longitudinal). Most had special design features and there > were not "standard" body kits with simply different sides attached. > Exceptions abounded as each was unique and the cast metal sided > express reefers are one exception noted above. There were well over > 300 unque Red Ball cars during this period and less than a couple > dozen allowed close to "standard" kit design. Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site is a handful of Red Ball parts. -- Rick Jones It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise its burial costs and blame it on the higher cost of living.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16417	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson, I really got a laugh out of your comment about trying to drag race a Hustler. I actually did that, and lost every time. If you look in the "Cinder Valley" photo album you will two photos of my Penn Line T-1 dragster. For several years our local NMRA Division sponsored an annual drag race and an Athearn Hustler was the only entry I couldn't beat. And yes, the young man who owned the Hustler had reversed the pulleys with the large one on the motor shaft and only the driver axles below. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > > > If it works, try drag racing a Hustler. > > Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16418	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

>>>>>If it works, try drag racing a Hustler.<<<<<<<   I have a red and white Hustler that I bought I guess in the 50s. The motor still runs but I’m running out of bands.In fact I have all my Hi-f Drives. An F-7 a GP-9 and an Rdc 2 or 3 Herb       Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16419	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Replace the rubber bands with the Ernst conversion gear kit - super low speed performance from a venerable industrial engine.  And Athearn still sells the rubber bands - their shipping charge is a killer though. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16420	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/30/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

I cannot speak for LaBelle. BUT--guys have patience. There are many hundreds of molds and new machines to learn--as well as figuring it all out on hudreds of kits that may need to be redesigned to fit new owner's concepts for the line. When we purchased Red Ball we hustled to get out a reissued kit (that didn't need much redesign) every couple months for a long time. You can't push a magic button. Merle --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 3/29/2011 5:06 PM, Model RailRoad wrote: > > The QuicKits were marketed by us (Wabash Valley Lines,Inc) in the > > late 70s after purchase of Red Ball from Howell Day (1976). The > > decision had been made to ONLY make woodn sided reefers and boxcars > > (silk screened then, later, pad printed) and we had tons (literally) > > of printed card side inventory. It made sense to develop a low priced > > kit line to introduce beginning modellers to kit building since "real > > kits" were beginning to escalate in price and early plastic was the > > only thing to ber had in entry level price range. The sides retailed > > for 59c a pair and the bodies were in the $2-3 range. At first the > > carbody was made of a small wooden box cut to size and glued together > > by our employees in Roanoke, IN. The model builder glued on the wood > > roof, cast metal ends, card sides and underbody details (floor was > > part of the pre made box), ladders etc. There were standard reefer > > sizes (Red Ball kits had a unique size to most every one of the 200 + > > reefers): 34, 36.38 and 40 foot. Boxcars were 34,36 and 40 foot > > standard box sizes. The boxes were made of 1/4" pine "lattice" wood > > that we surfaced with a planer in our wood shop. In time I changed > > the design to a solid poplar block cut from kiln dried inch+ thick > > plank stock surfaced both sides to the required car width . We cut > > the wood into solid rectangular stock and milled out the inside to > > form a large solid "U" of the floor and sides. The U was quite sturdy > > for easy attachment of roof sides and ends. It was also less prone to > > shipping damage. This "U" design was also used for the Red Ball > > express reefers with cast metal sides for several years.(Of course > > those blocks were quite different dimensions than either the reefers > > or boxcars). The QuicKits were continued until a) the supply of > > Howell Day printed sides limited the road choices; b) plastic kit > > technology and wider availability (particularly the "Train Miniature" > > brand that offered a wide choice of roads) and c) Labor costs made it > > impractical to continue the line. We paid higher than minimum wage, > > b! ut min wage was jumping appreeciably every year (causing "higher > > than" to jump. An increase of 20c in labor forced a price increase of > > $1 as the line was sold through distributors and dealers. We shifted > > that intended focus to a complementary plastic KIT line from > > Cannonball at a time when plastic KITS were still not so accepted. > > (I'm referring to KITS with many parts as opposed to the Athearn, MDC > > and Train Miniature "shake the box" kits. The QuicKits were > > successful in their objective as we tracked continuing sales of the > > wood and metal Red Ball kits to the areas where QuicKits were > > particularly popular. > > > > "Regular" Red Ball boxcar and reefer wood and metal kits (1976-2009) > > had a traditional flat wood floor and end block construction design. > > It wasn't nearly as "Quick" to build. Most had no interior support > > for the scribed wood sides. Some had scribed roofs requiring support > > "rafters" (longitudinal). Most had special design features and there > > were not "standard" body kits with simply different sides attached. > > Exceptions abounded as each was unique and the cast metal sided > > express reefers are one exception noted above. There were well over > > 300 unque Red Ball cars during this period and less than a couple > > dozen allowed close to "standard" kit design. > > Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball > line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site > is a handful of Red Ball parts. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise its burial > costs and blame it on the higher cost of living. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16421	From: Rick Steele	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

> Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball > line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site > is a handful of Red Ball parts. > > -- > > Rick Jones Instead of speculating, why not just write and ask directly? Or call, or wait until I can get on one of these forums and answer. Your cry seems simple, but it is much more involved than that. First off, I have a very limited amount of time between producing LaBelle Kits and taking care of those customers to photograph, price and upload all of the Red Ball Parts that we have in stock. It has to be done as time allows, and since I have another full time job (the one that actually pays my bills and feeds my family), I have to work my second full time job around the first one. After having put over $70,000 into an addition to our existing facility to house Red Ball, we find that the electrical connections into the building are incorrect for the machines that were sent with the Red Ball line. The last quote from the power company was a mere $30,000.00 to install it. Anybody on this list have that much laying around on the top of their dresser? Me either. The alternative is to change out the motors or get a phase converter, neither which will be less than $1,000.00. Next, we have to have new cutters made for the shapers to make the wood parts. Those mentioned in the original correspondence have never appeared. After the tool holders are made, the cost of the knives are relatively cheap at about $500.00 each or you can have some dedicated tools made at the cost of several thousand. Remember, the curves for the Roofs at LaBelle and Red Ball are different and to put out a good quality kit, the roofs, cupolas and roofwalks have to match. OK, Now let's get to another matter. The kits that we received from Model RR Warehouse were involved in a fire. Most survived, several are moldy but we're not sure what goes with what because the Packaging Master that MRRW used (I was told that there was one) was not in the shipment either. So each kit has to be found (if we have it, and we don't have them all), inspected, checked against the old Red Ball catalog, if the parts are listed there and then we have to go to the molding dies to see if we even have the die to make it. If we don't then there's another cost that was not anticipated. Did I mention that almost all of the artwork has to be redone? Red Ball had a lot of neat kits, but in comparing with prototype photos, some of their attention to detail was a bit lacking. It's a lot to ask from one person (me) to finance all this and to resurrect what is essentially a dead line in a matter of months. I'd like to rush a kit out as well, but I want to make sure that the kit will appeal to my existing LaBelle customers and not alienate the old Red Ball fans. I also want it detailed enough that it will entice new modelers back for more. So you can see, by this tip of the hand, that the New Red Ball will be different than the old. All I can say is to be patient. I am working on this as diligently as I can. I mean, heck, all it takes is money. As a matter of fact I'll pay someone quadruple the salary that LaBelle pays me to do. Be warned, though, that my salary is $0.00. Now Mr. Jones, how may we help you? My e-mail address at the shop is info@... Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16422	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

Rick Steele, thank you for a candid, concise, clear communication.  I can readily identify with the problem and the lack of funds.  You are making a great effort for the benefit of others and I most deeply thank you for it...  You are appreciated.  Please remember to take care of you in the process.  He who burns candle at both ends runs out of both wax and wick more quickly. Be even greater blessed...  Don Staton, Va. Beach, VA. ===================================================================================================== On 3/31/2011 10:56 AM, Rick Steele wrote:   > Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball > line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site > is a handful of Red Ball parts. > > -- > > Rick Jones Instead of speculating, why not just write and ask directly? Or call, or wait until I can get on one of these forums and answer. Your cry seems simple, but it is much more involved than that. First off, I have a very limited amount of time between producing LaBelle Kits and taking care of those customers to photograph, price and upload all of the Red Ball Parts that we have in stock. It has to be done as time allows, and since I have another full time job (the one that actually pays my bills and feeds my family), I have to work my second full time job around the first one. After having put over $70,000 into an addition to our existing facility to house Red Ball, we find that the electrical connections into the building are incorrect for the machines that were sent with the Red Ball line. The last quote from the power company was a mere $30,000.00 to install it. Anybody on this list have that much laying around on the top of their dresser? Me either. The alternative is to change out the motors or get a phase converter, neither which will be less than $1,000.00. Next, we have to have new cutters made for the shapers to make the wood parts. Those mentioned in the original correspondence have never appeared. After the tool holders are made, the cost of the knives are relatively cheap at about $500.00 each or you can have some dedicated tools made at the cost of several thousand. Remember, the curves for the Roofs at LaBelle and Red Ball are different and to put out a good quality kit, the roofs, cupolas and roofwalks have to match. OK, Now let's get to another matter. The kits that we received from Model RR Warehouse were involved in a fire. Most survived, several are moldy but we're not sure what goes with what because the Packaging Master that MRRW used (I was told that there was one) was not in the shipment either. So each kit has to be found (if we have it, and we don't have them all), inspected, checked against the old Red Ball catalog, if the parts are listed there and then we have to go to the molding dies to see if we even have the die to make it. If we don't then there's another cost that was not anticipated. Did I mention that almost all of the artwork has to be redone? Red Ball had a lot of neat kits, but in comparing with prototype photos, some of their attention to detail was a bit lacking. It's a lot to ask from one person (me) to finance all this and to resurrect what is essentially a dead line in a matter of months. I'd like to rush a kit out as well, but I want to make sure that the kit will appeal to my existing LaBelle customers and not alienate the old Red Ball fans. I also want it detailed enough that it will entice new modelers back for more. So you can see, by this tip of the hand, that the New Red Ball will be different than the old. All I can say is to be patient. I am working on this as diligently as I can. I mean, heck, all it takes is money. As a matter of fact I'll pay someone quadruple the salary that LaBelle pays me to do. Be warned, though, that my salary is $0.00. Now Mr. Jones, how may we help you? My e-mail address at the shop is info@... Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16423	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

On 3/31/2011 9:56 AM, Rick Steele wrote: > > >> Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball >> line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web >> site is a handful of Red Ball parts. >> >> Rick Jones > > > Instead of speculating, why not just write and ask directly? Or call, > or wait until I can get on one of these forums and answer. <snip> > Now Mr. Jones, how may we help you? Didn't mean to offend. Was just an honest question about the current status of rebuilding the model line since there's no mention of it on the web site. Truth is I'm backed way up on kits to build and not in any hurry to add more that will sit in boxes for years, but am seriously interested in NOT seeing the demise of craftsman kits in favor of plastic RTR or simple kits. I've been unhappy for years about the loss of Central Valley kits and trucks from the marketplace. -- Rick Jones "Political Correctness is the elevation of Sensitivity over Truth." -Bill Mahr, "Politically Incorrect"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16424	From: Rick Steele	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

> > Didn't mean to offend. Was just an honest question about the current > status of rebuilding the model line since there's no mention of it on > the web site. Truth is I'm backed way up on kits to build and not in any > hurry to add more that will sit in boxes for years, but am seriously > interested in NOT seeing the demise of craftsman kits in favor of > plastic RTR or simple kits. I've been unhappy for years about the loss > of Central Valley kits and trucks from the marketplace. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "Political Correctness is the elevation of Sensitivity over Truth." > -Bill Mahr, "Politically Incorrect" > Rick, You didn't offend. My suggestion was merely to go to the horses mouth rather than to post something to the whims and fancies of the net. I can sound particularly brusque because (as you mentioned at the end of your last post) I don't subscribe to the Politically Correct theory either. If you think that you miss Central Valley trucks, think how I feel. Most of the LaBelle kits were originally engineered to use the CV trucks. Now days I either refer people to Bethlehem Car Works for the Old Red Ball Trucks, or to Precision Scale Company where a pair of trucks will cost almost as much as a kit. There are a lot of things that I'd like to do, but time and money are the biggest drawbacks. Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16425	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Tender Trucks Atrached

Attachments : IMG_6935_2.JPG IMG_6933_1.JPG                     I finally got both Winton Allegheny original trucks attached and with good current flow. I basically used an idea someone suggested with a little modification to get current past the insulated pieces on top of the trucks. I soldered a wire to the side of a small washer and inserted the screw through it and the insulated part into the metal bolsters on the tender body. I then soldered the other end of the wire to the closest metal .Since the washer turns with the truck I didn't need a big piece with slack for turning slack or flexing and easier to hide. Also since the wire is soldered to the side of the washer and not to the screw head easy to take the screws out and take the trucks off. I thought I might need a small spring under the screw head to keep some pressure for pickup but so far it works great.        Now that I made sure there is good connections and electrical pick up from the track all I need to do is attach engine wire to front screw in the tender.                                                    Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16426	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

> If you think that you miss Central Valley trucks, think how I feel. Most of the LaBelle kits were originally engineered to use the CV trucks. Now days I either refer people to Bethlehem Car Works for the Old Red Ball Trucks, or to Precision Scale Company where a pair of trucks will cost almost as much as a kit. > > There are a lot of things that I'd like to do, but time and money are the biggest drawbacks. > > Rick Steele > LaBelle Woodworking Co. How do the new Tahoe 5 ft archbars look as a CV replacement? Howard Garner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16427	From: pennsyjuice	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Got 'em running

New member here and am looking for some help. Tonight, I finally got a Tyco FP-7 ACL and AHM NH C-Liner runniing. They have been in storage since 1966. I have them jumpered and sitting in a cradle, so I've been cleaning tne wheels as they are spinning with a q-tip and alcohol. Should I clean the motor (brushes, commutator ) with anything or just leave them alone? Any suggestions regaurding a " tune-up " would be appreciated. It sure feels good to get them running again! Thanks in advance, David Ott

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16428	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running

David, Welcome!!  Tune-ups :  Fast, Safe and Effective after more than 25 years experience running a shop and restoring old trains.  Get yourself a can of CRC "D Electronic Cleaner" , part #05103 from your local auto parts store.  Spray the commutator and brushes plus all areas that have or have had grease on them.  Be liberal and get all of the old dirt and lube washed off.  Make sure that you get all of the cat hairs and carpet fibers out also.  Set it aside to dry completely - at least an hour, better if you let it dry overnight.  Then use La belle #108 to put a drop or two of plastic compatible oil on all bearings, including the oil-lite bearings on the motor.  Use Bachmann EZ Lube or La belle #107 to put a drop of oil on all axle bearings and two or three drops on the gears.  Use La belle #106 or Bachmann Gear Oil or Hob-E-Lube (Model Power) gear oil on the worm gears - one or two drops only. If you do the above, in 98% of all cases the locos will run super!  Even old Lionel and American Flyer locos from the '50s can be successfully restored to good if not perfect operation by this simple technique. Jake_iv Alabama Hill Country.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16429	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Allegheny done. on to next project

Attachments : IMG_6946_3_1.JPG IMG_6945_2_1.JPG IMG_6942_1_1.JPG            I finally completed my Winton Allegheny buy adding the original trucks .It's up and running and is now 100% Winton parts save for the two Devore couplers and a few of the valve gear parts that were missing and I hand made. Height of the tender with the trucks on looks good to me when matched to the engine / cab.      I'm happy with the way I wired them. It seems to run good on straight track . I can't run it on my 18"radius layout track and probable need 24 radius. So even though running it goes back on the shelf.      On to my next project. I will be rebuilding a special run HO 4-4-0 by American Flyer / Mantua ( could have been in co operation with TYCO ) FY&P # 88 from the Frontiersman set. Since it will need some repainting after being rebuilt it will have to be a reproduction but still pretty neat color scheme.                                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16430	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]

Check with Hobby Surplus Sales - they just "might" have some of the original lettering since they got all of the original parts supply when Lionel took over AF. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16431	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project

Thanks for the information. I already have the tender FY&P # 88  and the word Franklin for on the cab. These are stick on reproductions a friend send me                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: jake_iv@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Allegheny done. on to next project   Check with Hobby Surplus Sales - they just "might" have some of the original lettering since they got all of the original parts supply when Lionel took over AF. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16432	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project

Dear Jim, As I recall the original lettering was stick-ons on both the HO & S Franklin, as was some of the Mantua W&A General runs.  I just finished remotoring a General with the stick-on W&A lettering. Jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16433	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project

Jake,      I think you are right that they were stick-ons and were never actual decals . What ever these will have to do.                                                             Jim                                                                                                     ----- Original Message ----- From: jake_iv@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Allegheny done. on to next project   Dear Jim, As I recall the original lettering was stick-ons on both the HO & S Franklin, as was some of the Mantua W&A General runs.  I just finished remotoring a General with the stick-on W&A lettering. Jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16434	From: Nelson	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running

David, here are a few tips specific to the C-Liner, because I've serviced a lot of them and they have their quirks. Test the brush spring pressure. If they're under a lot of tension, you can remove and squeeze the V spring to reduce it. The brushes they used are very soft and wear quickly, so they only need enough pressure to hold them in place. It doesn't hurt to polish the brush arms and the brass contacts where they touch to remove any tarnish or green corrosion as well. Dismantle the rear truck (be careful with the coupler spring), and soak the wheels & gears in 91% alcohol, then scrub them clean with a toothbrush. The old grease usually turns to hard wax, and goes green from the brass gearing. It can be difficult to get all of it out of the truck housing, but you can soak the truck in alcohol deep enough to cover it, then brush it out. Let it all dry out before re-lubing. I don't recommend removing the rear truck, though, because the worm holds it on, and if your unit is from the sixties there's a ring of 5 ball bearings between the worm and truck housing that isn't easy to deal with. Those bearings will need to be oiled as well. I recommend grease for the gearing; I use Super Lube, but Labelle Teflon grease will be fine also. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "pennsyjuice" <altoman992003@...> wrote: > > New member here and am looking for some help. Tonight, I finally got a Tyco FP-7 ACL and AHM NH C-Liner runniing. They have been in storage since 1966. > > I have them jumpered and sitting in a cradle, so I've been cleaning tne wheels as they are spinning with a q-tip and alcohol. Should I clean the motor (brushes, commutator ) with anything or just leave them alone? > > Any suggestions regaurding a " tune-up " would be appreciated. It sure feels good to get them running again! > > Thanks in advance, > David Ott >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16435	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

How do the new Tahoe 5 ft archbars look as a CV replacement? The answer is "superior" if only because the Tahoe trucks are so precise.  Where they are not superior is where you might be depending upon the weight of the trucks for operational reliability (like I will be doing with some Westerfield resin ore cars).   I reserve my cache of CV 5' trucks to be placed under the historic kit models that require them. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16436	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Possibly Off Topic

I realize this group is mainly for vintage ( 1960's and earlier ) models, but maybe some fellow members can help me.   I recently acquired a lot of somewhat vintage ( 1970's I'm guessing ) train set models amongst "better" quality items. I'm very famailiar with both Tyco's and AHM's ( I'm not quite sure which company it is from ) common models from the era, but I had never seen this one until now. It is one of their 55' ACF covered hoppers, but it is decorated for Oscar Mayer. It has a couple of images of the "Wienermobile" one each side with the Oscar Mayer logo in the center. It also has "America's Favorite Wiener" across the side sills. Then again, I could be completely wrong and it could possibly be a much more recent release from someone who took over the old dies, since usually you can find "Tyco" or "AHM" on the underside.   I apologize if this is too off topic, but it got my curiosity going. Any help will be appreciated.   Tod from Ohio

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16437	From: RalphB	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, David Ott wrote: > > New member here and am looking for some help. Tonight, I finally got a Tyco FP-7 ACL and AHM NH C-Liner runniing. They have been in storage since 1966. > > I have them jumpered and sitting in a cradle, so I've been cleaning tne wheels as they are spinning with a q-tip and alcohol. ---------------------- First off, welcome to the list. I'm usually one of the lurkers who simply gets information from the other folks on the list, and you'll find a wealth of information here. As to cleaning wheels on locomotives, my choice is the Kadee "Speedi Wheel Cleaner," http://kadee.com/htmbord/page236.htm I have one of my own at home and I frequently borrow one from a fellow club member at the shows we do (I'm in a modular HO club). The advantage is that there are no chemicals involved. Since the brushes are brass, they're non-magnetic and any shavings won't get attracted to the motor. As to a Tyco FP-7, I don't think so. F-7 with train heat boiler fittings on the roof, definitely. The only FP-7 offered in HO was the Atlas model, but there were several passenger-capable F-7 models. Difference? An EMD FP unit (offered only in A-units) was four feet longer than a standard F unit. There's an extra hatch on the roof between the dynamic brake hatch (if so equipped) and the radiator fan hatch; there's also extra space on the side panels and underframe. There were no FP-series B-units as these already had enough space for the extra water tanks; Santa Fe was a big user of B-units with boilers, but none of its A-units had them. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16438	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]

Looks very nice Jim, I am sure you are happy to have reached this point with it.  Sorry I do not live closer to you, so you could run it here.   Next project seems to have some challenges that should keep you busy for a little.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 1:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]                I finally completed my Winton Allegheny buy adding the original trucks .It's up and running and is now 100% Winton parts save for the two Devore couplers and a few of the valve gear parts that were missing and I hand made. Height of the tender with the trucks on looks good to me when matched to the engine / cab.      I'm happy with the way I wired them. It seems to run good on straight track . I can't run it on my 18"radius layout track and probable need 24 radius. So even though running it goes back on the shelf.      On to my next project. I will be rebuilding a special run HO 4-4-0 by American Flyer / Mantua ( could have been in co operation with TYCO ) FY&P # 88 from the Frontiersman set. Since it will need some repainting after being rebuilt it will have to be a reproduction but still pretty neat color scheme.                                                                 Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16439	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow

Hello- I've been online trying to find the prototype for the Red Ball Rotary Snowplow, Kit #162. Somewhat similar wood-bodied (now replaced with steel bodies) rotaries were owned by the Northern Pacific (#10) and the Long Island RR (#193), but these aren't really similar in door and window placement. Has anyone researched this? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16440	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow

I forgot to mention Nevada Northern Snowplow "B." This still has its wood body, and is similar to the Red Ball kit, but the window and door locations don't match up. -Richard White --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hello- I've been online trying to find the prototype for the Red Ball Rotary Snowplow, Kit #162. Somewhat similar wood-bodied (now replaced with steel bodies) rotaries were owned by the Northern Pacific (#10) and the Long Island RR (#193), but these aren't really similar in door and window placement. Has anyone researched this? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16441	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits

Tahoe is shipping the new 5ft archbars this week.Their trucks are excellrent. We will have photo on our website as soon as the webmaster gets a whole new page replacvement posted.I will send photo if individually requested. Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Howard R Garner <cascaderail@...> wrote: > > > If you think that you miss Central Valley trucks, think how I feel. Most of the LaBelle kits were originally engineered to use the CV trucks. Now days I either refer people to Bethlehem Car Works for the Old Red Ball Trucks, or to Precision Scale Company where a pair of trucks will cost almost as much as a kit. > > > > There are a lot of things that I'd like to do, but time and money are the biggest drawbacks. > > > > Rick Steele > > LaBelle Woodworking Co. > > > > How do the new Tahoe 5 ft archbars look as a CV replacement? > > Howard Garner >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16442	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow

Hi Richard,    Try contacting Rick Steele at LaBelle Woodworking Co.  They are new owners of Red Ball and he can probably give you the info ASAP. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16443	From: Rick Jones	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits

On 4/4/2011 7:03 AM, Model RailRoad wrote: > Tahoe is shipping the new 5ft archbars this week.Their trucks are > excellent. We will have photo on our website as soon as the > webmaster gets a whole new page replacement posted. I will send photo > if individually requested. Unfortunately they're rigid frame trucks. I only use sprung trucks on my models hence my disappointment at the loss of CVs in the marketplace. -- Rick Jones 'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16444	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/5/2011
Subject: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo?  By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram.  Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? Thanks for any help. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16445	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Jake, Try the HoSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html I've made several dandy running chattanooga's by slipping Mantua Makado drives under them. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16446	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I take that back. It was an IHC drive that I used under the Tyco Chattanooga shell. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Jake, > Try the HoSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html I've made several dandy running > chattanooga's by slipping Mantua Makado drives under them. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@" <jake_iv@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > jake_iv > > Alabama Hill Country > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16447	From: Mary Long	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Possibly Off Topic

Tod , heres my two cents . Look for other sites , tyco . To see if they ran one of these , otherwise , maybe a special run ? Who knows ?   HH --- On Mon, 4/4/11, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Possibly Off Topic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 12:30 AM   I realize this group is mainly for vintage ( 1960's and earlier ) models, but maybe some fellow members can help me.   I recently acquired a lot of somewhat vintage ( 1970's I'm guessing ) train set models amongst "better" quality items. I'm very famailiar with both Tyco's and AHM's ( I'm not quite sure which company it is from ) common models from the era, but I had never seen this one until now. It is one of their 55' ACF covered hoppers, but it is decorated for Oscar Mayer. It has a couple of images of the "Wienermobile" one each side with the Oscar Mayer logo in the center. It also has "America's Favorite Wiener" across the side sills. Then again, I could be completely wrong and it could possibly be a much more recent release from someone who took over the old dies, since usually you can find "Tyco" or "AHM" on the underside.   I apologize if this is too off topic, but it got my curiosity going. Any help will be appreciated.   Tod from Ohio

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16448	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Next Project

Attachments : IMG_6959_1.JPG                  Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                                Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16449	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I've seen some folks do the same by replacing the Tyco tender drive with the mech from a Bachmann GE 44 or 70 tonner switcher. It's a somewhat slow running drive. But if you are after a slow running drag- freight steamer, that works out. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Apr 6, 2011, at 8:31 AM, Richard wrote: > Jake, > Try the HoSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html I've made > several dandy running > chattanooga's by slipping Mantua Makado drives under them. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: >> >> Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo >> Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these >> locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded >> diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can >> scan?? >> >> Thanks for any help.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16450	From: Nelson	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Hi Jake, There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16451	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 7:36 PM   Hi Jake, There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16452	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Make sure they are the 12 volt or 13 volt variety, most are 6 volt motors, but some are 12 or 13  and they usually say on the side of the motor.  I am getting ready to put one in an AHM 0-4-0 switcher.  I already checked and it works just fine with a DCC decoder. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:09:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo   That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 7:36 PM   Hi Jake, There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16453	From: Matthew	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Nice restoration/assembly work! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile. I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it. After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16454	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Thanks Nelson,   I couldn't find one in my records and I was an "Authoized Repair Station" when they were released.  Just wishful thinking I suppose.   I don't expect to repower any of them - If I did I would probably go all the way and use a NWSL truck in the tender or put a gear on the steam cam driver along with a small can motor. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16455	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Thanks to everyone who replied.  I haven't had a problem getting them to run well.  Most of the problems that I've found were poor castings interfering with the running gear or broken draw bars.  The road that I model, (Md & Pa) did not have any 0-8-0' s and the Chatanooga as a 2-8-0 just doesn't do it for me.  What I was hoping for was a diagram showing the boiler guts vs run gear. Thanks again to everyone. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16456	From: Richard	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT

Could someone explain what this is? I came across it on eBay and didn't know what it was. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16457	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT

Wild guess.  You use it something along the order of what a "phone plug" is (the sort that phone operators used to use).  I'm guessing you somehow have a hole and position the two brass pieces, perhaps needed to bend them.  When you push in the cylinder, the brass section of it contacts one or both.  A wire goes to each of the brass tabs and also the the barrel itself.  And perhaps there is a way to arrange the two brass tabs so they contact each other if the barrel is removed.  I don't understand the partial holes on the edge of the brass tabs, however.   I saw something else a long time ago from this same company.  I think it was switch machine or switch machine control related.  So may that is a hint.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT   Could someone explain what this is? I came across it on eBay and didn't know what it was. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16458	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Steamers

Hello,     I have a trio of HO steam locos I am interested in selling. The first is a Penn Line PRR L1s 2-8-2. Could be a Bowser but I think it is old enough to have been Penn Line. No big deal as I think they are identical. It is an ok runner on my test track. Could be tweaked a bit. An older model built from a stock kit. Good condition. The other two are English Yard Bird PRR A5s 0-4-0's. Both need restored or tweaked as well. I think if the two were combined, one decent model can be had. One tender has broken rear steps, the other a broken draw bar. Basic built kits. Comes with an original English Yard Bird box. All for $75.00 plus shipping. contact me off list. I do have a pic of the three models. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16459	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!

Hello,     I have a very Vintage brass diesel. I am guessing it is from the 1950's, Heck maybe even from the late 1940's? Kinda looks like an E7/E8 but is a bit shorter in length and with numerous small windows on the body sides. I have a pic of this model I can send to an email. It is painted in Milwaukee Road colors. Of course it is an older paint job and needs redone, if that is the best thing to do?  It has one 6 wheel power truck on the rear (4 wheels powered) and a dummy 6 wheel truck up front. You experts may know the history, I don't. Runs ok on my test track. Of course its a growler, it is from the early days you know! I see only one side stirrup step missing. If interested or if you have info, please feel free to email me. It won't break your bank if you are interested in its purchase. I just never seen anything like this one. Could fill in your roster as a uni que piece. Thanks for reading......Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16460	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers

How much for just the L1s, 2-8-2?  Don Staton in VA. ========================================================================== On 4/8/2011 6:31 PM, Gary Mittner wrote:   Hello,     I have a trio of HO steam locos I am interested in selling. The first is a Penn Line PRR L1s 2-8-2. Could be a Bowser but I think it is old enough to have been Penn Line. No big deal as I think they are identical. It is an ok runner on my test track. Could be tweaked a bit. An older model built from a stock kit. Good condition. The other two are English Yard Bird PRR A5s 0-4-0's. Both need restored or tweaked as well. I think if the two were combined, one decent model can be had. One tender has broken rear steps, the other a broken draw bar. Basic built kits. Comes with an original English Yard Bird box. All for $75.00 plus shipping. contact me off list. I do have a pic of the three models. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16461	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers

Hi Don,     Just sold them moments ago. Thanks for the interest though. I may find other older stuff in my own collection I need to sale.  Keep an eye over the coming weeks. Thanks, Gary From: Donald R. Staton Sent: Friday, April 8, 2011 7:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] For Sale: Steamers How much for just the L1s, 2-8-2?  Don Staton in VA. ========================================================================== On 4/8/2011 6:31 PM, Gary Mittner wrote:   Hello,     I have a trio of HO steam locos I am interested in selling. The first is a Penn Line PRR L1s 2-8-2. Could be a Bowser but I think it is old enough to have been Penn Line. No big deal as I think they are identical. It is an ok runner on my test track. Could be tweaked a bit. An older model built from a stock kit. Good condition. The other two are English Yard Bird PRR A5s 0-4-0's. Both need restored or tweaked as well. I think if the two were combined, one decent model can be had. One tender has broken rear steps, the other a broken draw bar. Basic built kits. Comes with an original English Yard Bird box. All for $75.00 plus shipping. contact me off list. I do have a pic of the three models. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16462	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers

Thank you!  Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 4/8/2011 7:39 PM, Gary Mittner wrote:   Hi Don,     Just sold them moments ago. Thanks for the interest though. I may find other older stuff in my own collection I need to sale.  Keep an eye over the coming weeks. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16463	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. > > As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? > > I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 7:36 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jake, > > > > There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. > > > > An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 > > > > http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur > > > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@" <jake_iv@> wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > jake_iv > > > Alabama Hill Country > > > > I use those CD ROM motors in all my TYCO rebuilds...they work great. BTW, the large gear is shown reversed with its teeth removed and placed where the smaller pinion gear was, a work of necessity as the pinion gear split and I had no spares... http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/1shaygetz/videos/?action=view¤t=PA060189.mp4

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16464	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!

List,     I added a photo to the photo section, album: "Gary's Stuff"  of the early brass Diesel model. If you have info, please share. It is also still for sale. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16465	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits

Unfortunately they're rigid frame trucks. I only use sprung trucks  on my models hence my disappointment at the loss of CVs in the marketplace. The traditional maker and purveyor of sprung metal freight trucks since Central Valley's demise decades ago has been and is Kadee; and they are currently phasing them out in place of new designs made up of an unusual heavy plastic and no inserted springs.  Although they are not "sprung", they  are equalized by an ingenious articulating joint in the truck bolster. I too horde my old CVs, and a lot of Kadees to place under my fine historic craft cars. However, the CVs -every single one of them- require tailored wheel replacements to allow them to roll to established modern standards (in repeated documented tests in this regard, the original CV's rollability standards are pretty poor- or worse    [sorry!]).  Even brand new Kadees can benefit  from tailored wheel replacement in this regard.  That said, it has been demonstrated time and time again that the springs in these trucks offer no advantage whatsoever to improved tracking despite a lot of wistful hoping and theorizing that they might or should. The weight on the trucks and the stiffness of even the most fine springs is never enough to actually allow the springs to truly function, either independently or  as a group.   For the prototype modeler aspiring to precision in scaling, the fact that the CV trucks are  all too wide, and both CV and Kadee have only two thin transparent springs in a truck whose prototype should have three to five heavy springs through which you should not be able to see has rendered them not very desirable. The latter is the prime reason why Kadee is changing- as we speak.  That they will have to no longer employ entry level people to insert springs is another reason (all new Kadee employees traditionally start out inserting springs!).  The Tahoe trucks track beautifully, roll beautifully as well, are absolutely to scale; and the fact that there are no working springs represents to these modelers neither  visual or operational issues.  Small masterpieces. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16466	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project [1 Attachment]

Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment]                      Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                                Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16467	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle.  I see a doctor Monday.     Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end.                                             Jim     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project   Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment]              Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16468	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

--Hi All,         I must apolgize about the last email I sent. I thought it was addressed to Chuck Higdon direct. I didn't notice his email was on the site address. So forgive me as it is off topic.                Jim H     --- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project    It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle.  I see a doctor Monday.     Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end.                                             Jim     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project   Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment]            Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16469	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: For Sale: Bass 0-6-6-0 Steam

List,     I have available for purchase an HO Scale Brass 0-6-6-0 Mallet. It is circa 1960ish I believe? I was told it represents one that was used on the B&O. I always thought it would make an excellent freelance logging or coal mine loco. But, I have no use for it anymore. It was made in Japan and imported by Aristocraft. Solidly built, remains unpainted. Just a little tarnish after 50 plus years of exsistance.  Pics can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic1.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic2.JPG http://ww w.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic3.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic4.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic5.JPG     Price is $225.00. I will pay shipping to any new home. Contact me off list if you have any interest. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16470	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I've used both disk drive tray and spindle motors (spindle motors are about the same diameter, but longer than pancake style tray motors) that are marked 5.9 volts, and they handle 15 volts easily. You may occasionally come across one that can't, but you'll know it very quickly by the high RPM's and heat it generates. The one in my photos was a tray motor marked for 5.9V. The only problem I've had was the brushes wearing through on one of them, since they're precious metal instead of carbon and don't like a lot of current. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Make sure they are the 12 volt or 13 volt variety, most are 6 volt motors, but some are 12 or 13 and they usually say on the side of the motor. I am getting ready to put one in an AHM 0-4-0 switcher. I already checked and it works just fine with a DCC decoder. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: computersystemrebuild@... > Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:09:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo > > > > > > > > That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. > > As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? > > I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16471	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I agree that motorizing the loco is a much better way to go, and it's on my project list. I just wanted to see how well it would work with a decent motor in the tender. The owner of Tyco at the time, Consolidated Foods, marketed these locos as toys, hence the generic instructions. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Thanks Nelson, > > I couldn't find one in my records and I was an "Authoized Repair Station" when they were released. Just wishful thinking I suppose. > > I don't expect to repower any of them - If I did I would probably go all the way and use a NWSL truck in the tender or put a gear on the steam cam driver along with a small can motor. > > Jake >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16472	From: Graeme	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT

In message <inn952+vsr0@...>, Richard <rh@...> writes >Could someone explain what this is? I came across it on eBay and didn't >know what it was. "The Wonderful Little Casey Jones Switch Machine" was the catalogue listing - their larger model was "The Challenger". -- Graeme Eldred, Scotland TCA 04-57743

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16473	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: AHM Brass

I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16474	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Good luck and my prayers are with both of you. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle. I see a doctor Monday. Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment] Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile. I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it. After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16475	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Also had a PRR J class Texas. Definitely NOT a factory second. Lovely model of a magnificent engine. Walter On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? Nelson -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16476	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

I am really sorry to hear that Jim, I am really hoping the news is good. Take car, both of you. Sean    1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 5:18:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project   Good luck and my prayers are with both of you. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle. I see a doctor Monday. Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 ---------------------------------------------------------- From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment] Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile. I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it. After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16477	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Ostuco decal project

Attachments : OSTX 1902.jpg Ostuco pair.jpg Regarding the recent Ostuco decal project, for my first effort I did a copy of the later Varney version where they applied their scheme to their regular 40' gondola without the end arch. The yellow doesn't match, but then probably neither did the prototypes after they'd been on the road awhile <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16478	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Note to all - Re.: AHM brass,  I stocked and sold the AHM brass imports throughout their existence.  As a dealer my only complaint was that they didn't make enough models!  They were definitely not "factory Seconds" .  Unlike many of the models that I got from PFM, NWSL, NJ Custom, Hallmark and many others I cannot recall even ONE instance where I had to work on an AHM brass loco before delivering it to a customer.  I can't recall a single complaint from a purchaser of one of these locos.  I have a host of memories of other makers whose offerings didn't come close to expectations.  I recall a factory painted CB&Q from NKP that ran like a charm,  until you tried to pull a train with it.  In the days of 40 cent gas this $275.00 loco couldn't pull 3 of the brass passenger cars that were designed to run with it.   If you want a vintage brass that you can depend on it is AHM or Akane.  I never had an operational complaint about either of those makes. Jake-iv formerly: Jac's Model Trains Doc's Loco Works Jac's Hobby Hut

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16479	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Just some personal observations about AHM:  Use it for what it is worth to you. AHM was an outgrowth of the GHC - General Hobbies Corp wholesale operation run by Bernie Paul.  n interesting setup since his spouse was heir to Woolworth !  Bernie was hell to deal with as a dealer and advertised order terms were often ignored and billing was a b--ch.  Not to mention that a prime supplier for AHM was Rivarossi.  Rivarossi was a great company with a host of fantastic products and some of the best tool & die men in the business.  Unfortunately, they also produced their products in up to TWELVE  quality variations for each model - especially the higher level models!  For a "for instance" - Bernie supplied the Woolworth and Woolco store with basic quality models and a retail customer would see a Big Boy in Woolworth for $30 or $40 and come into the store and see my offerings at $150 and get irritated that I was "cheating" him.  When you buy a Rivarossi model from eBay or similar locations - you need to be aware that the model may be anything from a basic unit with the cheapest motor and very limited detailing to a "Modeler" quality unit with full, high quality detailing and a great motor and very smooth gearing and drive train AND BOTH UNITS WILL HAVE THE SAME STOCK NUMBER!    The above not withstanding.  It is my opinion that until the '90s, the best tool and die work in the industry came out of Rivarossi.  Frateschi in Brazil has some of their tooling,  Bachmann's parent company has some of it and PMI got some of it.  Where and when available it is really worthwhile to check out Rivarossi and their successors. Jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16480	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I think that I may finally do a full loco re-power for one of them.  I put one up for sale in our club show Saturday at $40 - fully restored, painted and lettered as a USRA 0-8-0 (the actual prototype design of the loco) and didn't get one "bite" so maybe I'll do one and donate it to the club.  NWSL catalogs a couple of gear box sets for Mantua including a 60 or 70:1 reduction gearing box that I think would be great for a heavy switcher or the mantua 0-4-0 when coupled to one of the smaller can motors.    Since the drivers are insulated from the factory, pick-up could be via wipers on the driver backs and fed directly to DCC decoder or the motor.  Only one driver would need to be modified and re-quartered and if you teamed it to one of the Bachmann USRA short tenders you would have a very good running and accurate model.  Of course, getting your hands on an original Mantua 0-8-0 kit and re-gearing and re-motoring it would do just as well. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16481	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Jim, Just saw your messages from yesterday (I hadn't tuned in until now). No need for any apologies as far as I'm concerned. As we're all a fairly close knit group, we're all interested in how each other is doing. Sorry to hear that you two aren't feeling up to par. Hadn't known you guys haven't been feeling right, of course, since we don't normally discuss it. Hope the tests go well and that you're both feeling better soon. Take care, Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16482	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project [2 Attachments]

That looks really good.  What color did you end up using on these? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:06:10 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Ostuco decal project [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Regarding the recent Ostuco decal project, for my first effort I did a copy of the later Varney version where they applied their scheme to their regular 40' gondola without the end arch. The yellow doesn't match, but then probably neither did the prototypes after they'd been on the road awhile <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16483	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project

Testors "Modelmaster" Bright yellow, no. 2917, because that's what I had on the shelf in a spray bomb. It's over red oxide primer, which tones it down a little. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ostuco decal project That looks really good. What color did you end up using on these? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16484	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Thanks for the info, Jake. AS I said, I have no idea on what group or forum I read that they were problematic. Makes we wish I'd bid on it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Note to all - Re.: AHM brass, I stocked and sold the AHM brass imports throughout their existence. As a dealer my only complaint was that they didn't make enough models! They were definitely not "factory Seconds" . Unlike many of the models that I got from PFM, NWSL, NJ Custom, Hallmark and many others I cannot recall even ONE instance where I had to work on an AHM brass loco before delivering it to a customer. I can't recall a single complaint from a purchaser of one of these locos. I have a host of memories of other makers whose offerings didn't come close to expectations. I recall a factory painted CB&Q from NKP that ran like a charm, until you tried to pull a train with it. In the days of 40 cent gas this $275.00 loco couldn't pull 3 of the brass passenger cars that were designed to run with it. > > If you want a vintage brass that you can depend on it is AHM or Akane. I never had an operational complaint about either of those makes. > > Jake-iv > > > formerly: > Jac's Model Trains > Doc's Loco Works > Jac's Hobby Hut >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16485	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Keep your head up, Jim. I pray it turns out to be nothing. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I am really sorry to hear that Jim, > > I am really hoping the news is good. Take car, both of you. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 5:18:51 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project > > > Good luck and my prayers are with both of you. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project > > It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not > felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle. > I see a doctor Monday. > > Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist > about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band > and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet > reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding > out the results could be worse. Bad week end. > > Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16486	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Hi there, Bob. I didn't realize you were on this group. I tried using the pinion part of the large reduction gear after seeing your video some months ago. It worked well, and the gear noise wasn't as sharp, but I went back to the brass pinion. Overall I think it's a little bit quieter. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tieplatejunction" <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: > > I use those CD ROM motors in all my TYCO rebuilds...they work great. BTW, the large gear is shown reversed with its teeth removed and placed where the smaller pinion gear was, a work of necessity as the pinion gear split and I had no spares... http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/1shaygetz/videos/?action=view¤t=PA060189.mp4 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16487	From: rcjge	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Hey Guys: I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email it directly to me. I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. Thanks one and all.... -Gareth Bradford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16488	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > Hey Guys: > > I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little > like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was > planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog > Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. > > It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails > so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or > had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email it > directly to me. > > I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC > static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. > > Thanks one and all.... > > -Gareth > Bradford How many do you want? http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16489	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Looks like my reader loused up the links again. Hopefully this will work http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little >> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was >> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog >> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. >> >> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails >> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or >> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email >> it >> directly to me. >> >> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC >> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. >> >> Thanks one and all.... >> >> -Gareth >> Bradford > > How many do you want? > > http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16490	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. Walter On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   Looks like my reader loused up the links again. Hopefully this will work http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little >> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was >> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog >> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. >> >> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails >> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or >> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email >> it >> directly to me. >> >> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC >> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. >> >> Thanks one and all.... >> >> -Gareth >> Bradford > > How many do you want? > > http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16491	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Hi Gareth,   Here are two sucessful kitbashes I own (neither done by me - one needs to be compled by me however):   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285662/in/set-72157623241615384   &   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285612/in/set-72157623241615384   Sounds like a fun project!   Sean    1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:14:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???   Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. Walter On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   Looks like my reader loused up the links again. Hopefully this will work http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little >> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was >> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog >> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. >> >> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails >> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or >> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email >> it >> directly to me. >> >> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC >> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. >> >> Thanks one and all.... >> >> -Gareth >> Bradford > > How many do you want? > > http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16492	From: rcjge	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Thanks Guys: The picture I had sure looked like someone was using an MDC Yard Hog to start from. Any way thats where I'll start.... btw, Sean, do you have a Metal Roundhouse/MDC Yard Hog Boiler kicking around??? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Gareth, > > Here are two sucessful kitbashes I own (neither done by me - one needs to be > compled by me however): > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285662/in/set-72157623241615384 > > & > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285612/in/set-72157623241615384 > > Sounds like a fun project! > > Sean  > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:14:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >   > Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. > Walter > > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > >   > >Looks like my reader loused up the links again. > > > >Hopefully this will work > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj > > > >Don > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > > >Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >> > >> > >>> Hey Guys: > >>> > >>> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little > >>> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was > >>> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog > >>> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. > >>> > >>> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails > >>> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or > >>> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email > >>> it > >>> directly to me. > >>> > >>> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC > >>> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. > >>> > >>> Thanks one and all.... > >>> > >>> -Gareth > >>> Bradford > >> > >> How many do you want? > >> > >>http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > >>n > >> > >>Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >>y > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16493	From: 23weldon	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Gareth - I sent a bunch of pics your way by direct email. 2 plus mb worth.  Should be mostly different from the ones on Google photos. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16494	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

I think I do Gareth.   I tend to like them myself. I'll have to take a look to see if I have any lose shells.   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 11:05:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???   Thanks Guys: The picture I had sure looked like someone was using an MDC Yard Hog to start from. Any way thats where I'll start.... btw, Sean, do you have a Metal Roundhouse/MDC Yard Hog Boiler kicking around??? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Gareth, > > Here are two sucessful kitbashes I own (neither done by me - one needs to be > compled by me however): > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285662/in/set-72157623241615384 > > & > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285612/in/set-72157623241615384 > > Sounds like a fun project! > > Sean  > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:14:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >   > Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. > Walter > > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > >   > >Looks like my reader loused up the links again. > > > >Hopefully this will work > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj > > > >Don > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > > >Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >> > >> > >>> Hey Guys: > >>> > >>> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little > >>> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was > >>> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog > >>> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. > >>> > >>> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails > >>> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or > >>> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email > >>> it > >>> directly to me. > >>> > >>> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC > >>> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. > >>> > >>> Thanks one and all.... > >>> > >>> -Gareth > >>> Bradford > >> > >> How many do you want? > >> > >>http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > >>n > >> > >>Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >>y > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16495	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/15/2011
Subject: addition to vintage collection

I finally found an item on eBay that I have been searching for to add to my vintage collection. It is a new first version Hobbytown PA-1 2000 HP ACLO Kit O/B that has the removable roof unlike later models that had a one piece body with the roof as part of it. This first version came out about 1950.      To see it go to      380330846591    HO Scale Die Cast All Metal, Passenger Diesel Locomotive      When it arrives it will be interesting to see if it contains all the parts to complete the engine. Since it is a new kit I will not be building it but would be nice if it would all be there.                                 Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16496	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection

Jim Nice catch. Looks pretty pristine Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16497	From: rcjge	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection

Hi Jim: Hope it's complete. I have one tucked away also in the original box, though I seem to remember mine being in a larger box... at one ime the HT Alco's were my favourite HO model engines. I have some I can't remember how many unbuildt in original boxes.... Never was a "B" unit was there? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I finally found an item on eBay that I have been searching for to add to my vintage collection. It is a new first version Hobbytown PA-1 2000 HP ACLO Kit O/B that has the removable roof unlike later models that had a one piece body with the roof as part of it. This first version came out about 1950. > > To see it go to 380330846591 HO Scale Die Cast All Metal, Passenger Diesel Locomotive > > When it arrives it will be interesting to see if it contains all the parts to complete the engine. Since it is a new kit I will not be building it but would be nice if it would all be there. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16498	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection

Hi Gareth,        No B unit I know of.                        Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: rcjge To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: addition to vintage collection   Hi Jim: Hope it's complete. I have one tucked away also in the original box, though I seem to remember mine being in a larger box... at one ime the HT Alco's were my favourite HO model engines. I have some I can't remember how many unbuildt in original boxes.... Never was a "B" unit was there? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I finally found an item on eBay that I have been searching for to add to my vintage collection. It is a new first version Hobbytown PA-1 2000 HP ACLO Kit O/B that has the removable roof unlike later models that had a one piece body with the roof as part of it. This first version came out about 1950. > > To see it go to 380330846591 HO Scale Die Cast All Metal, Passenger Diesel Locomotive > > When it arrives it will be interesting to see if it contains all the parts to complete the engine. Since it is a new kit I will not be building it but would be nice if it would all be there. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16499	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

Group, I just dug out my Varney Economy Pacific locomotive, believed to be from the early postwar era. I moved June last year, and it has been stored since. Gave it a test-run, and noticed on the second drive axle (The geared one), one of the wheel treads is off center slightly. The wheel hub is fine, thankfully, but the brass tread is off just enough to make the locomotive an unstable runner. Any ideas? I do not want to replace parts if I can avoid it, nor do I want to brute force the tread on, unless the majority think I could safely do so. Any help is appreciated! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16500	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

Hi Steve,    Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface to press the tire back in place.  Back in the early post war we sometimes used paper as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the tire into place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face and back of the driver.    Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill press used as a press).  I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job.     Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" or "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the driver and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the thumb screw to realign the tire with the wheel. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16501	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

I have accomplished the same thing using smooth jawed pliers at the location that needed to be pressed further onto the wheel.  Don Staton in Va. ===================================================================================================== On 4/17/2011 8:28 AM, jake_iv@... wrote:   Hi Steve,    Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface to press the tire back in place.  Back in the early post war we sometimes used paper as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the tire into place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face and back of the driver.    Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill press used as a press).  I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job.     Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" or "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the driver and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the thumb screw to realign the tire with the wheel. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16502	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

I presume from your description that the brass drive wheel tire has come askew on its cast zamac center.  The fix should be straight forward: 1) Remove wheel from axle (easily done with Varney- simply remove axle screw and gently pull the wheel off the self-quartering axle. 2) Place wheel face down or face up flat on firm, i.e. wood, but not hard (granite) surface such that the entire cast center and tire rims are well supported all around (may require drilling a hole in the wood to recess the boss), or the use of pasteboard shims.  3) With  very light  strokes from a padded light hammer  (I use a leather hammer),  press the tire flat back in place.  You might not even need this, if simply using fingers works well to begin with.  3) Alternatively, one can make a "sandwich" of wood into which a fully supported wheel can be placed, and the whole thing lightly pressed in a vise. 4) If the tire has been loose once, it may be liable to get loose again. Secure it with a drop or drops of ACC. 5) If the tire is on the insulated side, be very certain that in the process of putting it back into place, an inadvertent short may not have been created. 6) For the most part, the Varney drivers were well made and pretty bullet proof. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16503	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

I would be leery of using the puller. You want to spread the force evenly over the whole rim and wheel. The puller concentrates it in a few area and I'm afraid it would break the wheel if there's any lead rot at all. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <jake_iv@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Steam Wheel Treads Hi Steve, Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface to press the tire back in place. Back in the early post war we sometimes used paper as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the tire into place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face and back of the driver. Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill press used as a press). I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job. Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" or "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the driver and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the thumb screw to realign the tire with the wheel. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16504	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

Following Don's warning............... I'd put the wheel and tire to be pressed on a slab of any available hard wood. Likely customized with a slot for the axle if still on the axle, and a slightly recessed cup about the same same size as the tire. Use a spade type of drill bit to make that. The recess will be not as deep as the tire is thick. If it's still on the axle, you need to make it sit on a thinned section of board, thick Masonite or stacked masonite, or a bit of metal plate. A table saw and a board of hardwood would be a great help. But you do need to know how to properly work with that tool and safely handle more than just cutting-off boards to use that machine. The method is that you will loosely assemble the tire-insulator-center/ wheel nest it into the recess. Then use another piece of board placed on top of the that to gently and firmly tap the assembly together. Use lots of small hits upon that top board and check frequently. The forces will be much better spread out that way and you will be unlikely to fracture the casting in the process. I'd prefer to go to the Local Menards where I know I can get a small board of Oak or Maple for a couple of bucks. If you happen to have a bit of scrap and now age hardened 2x4 or other woods lying about or even some scrap Masonite, those will work. You're after any wood that won't let the parts be crushed into it. Likewise, if you have to pull an aged driver from an axle, I'd put an axle slot into some thin hardwood, place the axle set in the center of a vice that is spread-jawed, and tap the axle out with a pin punch that is smaller than the axle size. Or between a couple of scrap lengths of 2x4 under that slotted block/board with the axle set dangling at least an inch away from the benchtop. You'll have much better support over the area/surface of the casting in that way. The reason this is so unfocused is that you can use materials you have around you and each choice will make for differences. Another 'board' choice is a very tough, kitchen cutting board. Some of them are very tough plastics and relatively thin compared to a wood board. The local dollar stores have great ones that are very low cost and make great material to cut and use for flat fixtures and jigs. Choose one that's not laminated and seems tough and rigid. You might use a cheap clipboard for the same reason. Either will cost you $1-$2 in the local dollar stores. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Apr 17, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > I would be leery of using the puller. You want to spread the force > evenly > over the whole rim and wheel. The puller concentrates it in a few > area and > I'm afraid it would break the wheel if there's any lead rot at all. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <jake_iv > Hi Steve, > > Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this > problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a > Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface > to press > the tire back in place. Back in the early post war we sometimes > used paper > as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the > tire into > place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face > and back > of the driver. > > Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill > press used > as a press). I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' > hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job. > > Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" > or > "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the > driver > and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the > thumb > screw to realign the tire with the wheel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16505	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Attachments : IMG_6972_1.JPG              Finally felt a little better and up to doing a few things to complete my American Flyer / Mantua FY&P ( Fifty Years of Progress ) 4-4-0. This engine was a co operative venture using Mantua's General and a special paint scheme provided by American Flyer to supposedly celebrate their years in business.These parts Sean N gave me. It should not take long to complete once I start to feel right. All the painting is done and I have all the parts.                                         Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16506	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Attaching photographs to posts

Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16507	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Pittman motor

What is the number of the large Pittman motor that was used in the Winton Allegheny and the Hobbytown E-7 units? It was normally used for O Gauge items. Was it DC 90 or 91 ?                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16508	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

Hi Richard,       I'm not the best expert to explain this but I will tell you how I do it.   I bought a Canon digital camera. It came with a program that you install in your computer. Mine is called Zoom Browser EX. When installed you will get an icon on you computer screen for it.       You take your pictures with the camera and load them in the Zoom Browser EX program that you bring up on the screen. You can pick and choose what you want. Delete any you don't want to send. After you are sure you have what you want to send as an attachment you follow a sequence from the instruction booklet ( You learn it very quick) which will bring up an email with the pictures attached you want to send as part of it . Fill the Email with information and then list subject and address who to go to just like sending an email and send.       Sorry best I can do but it is not complicated for me to do. Remember these are attachments with an email. Not to put pictures in an album.                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Attaching photographs to posts   Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16509	From: Glenn	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

As  I remember them, the DC-90 was sort of squared off on the front end, like the DC-70—and the DC-91 had a slope on the bottom like the DC-71.  I think the Hobbytown PA I got had a DC-91—a friend was looiing for one of them to go in a PFM O Scale loco—I think the Hobbytown version had the brush plate inverted.  gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:09 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Pittman motor           What is the number of the large Pittman motor that was used in the Winton Allegheny and the Hobbytown E-7 units? It was normally used for O Gauge items. Was it DC 90 or 91 ?                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16510	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Attaching photographs to posts > Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- > Richard White > It really depends on how you're reading and writing your mail. I use outlook express, when I'm composing the message I just click on the the little paper clip icon up on the toolbar that opens a window to browse my computer for the picture I want, then highlight it, click the " attach" button in the popup window and I'm done. If you're doing it online, there should be an "attach file" link somewhere that does the same thing. I'm assuming other mail readers work in a similar fashion. The only thing I do insist on is that any attachments be in .jpg format only. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16511	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

Jim H. and Don D.- I should have been more explicit in my post- I am talking about posts to our Vintage HO site. Cheers- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16512	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

Your friend might want to check with Bowser.  Bowser bought the Pittman line of motors for model railroading several years ago. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16513	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Attaching photographs to posts > Jim H. and Don D.- I should have been more explicit in my post- I am > talking about posts to our Vintage HO site. Cheers- Richard White > I was referring to attaching pictures to an email which is what I thought you were doing. As far as actually putting them on the website as an album, that's not hard either. Assuming the pictures are already .jpg format on your hard drive...... Go to the home page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ On the left side of the page click on "photos" Upper Right hand corner, under the search bar you should see " ADD PHOTO/CREATE ALBUM" Click on "create album" You will be prompted to create a name for your album, and a brief description. Also choose whether anyone can add to it or just you or the moderators. It doesn't make a lot of difference. Click "next" and you'll get the page that has a "select files" button. Clicking that will open a window to browse your computer for the photo you want. You can click the select files button again to add another, etc. etc. (as a practical matter it's probably best not to try to add more than 8 or 10 pictures in one batch). Once you've selected the pictures to upload, click "upload". When you're done, you can go into that album and click on the individual picture, then "edit" at the top of the page to change the name, add more descriptive comments, delete photos you decided you didn't want after all, etc. etc. To add more photos to an existing album, go into that album, and this time click on "add photos" in the upper right hand corner, and continue on the same way as above. I hope this is of help. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16514	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

I use either Gmail or Outlook (not Outlook Express), and BOTH work the same as Don described it. On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Attaching photographs to posts > Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- > Richard White > It really depends on how you're reading and writing your mail. I use outlook express, when I'm composing the message I just click on the the little paper clip icon up on the toolbar that opens a window to browse my computer for the picture I want, then highlight it, click the " attach" button in the popup window and I'm done. If you're doing it online, there should be an "attach file" link somewhere that does the same thing. I'm assuming other mail readers work in a similar fashion. The only thing I do insist on is that any attachments be in .jpg format only. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

This may be of help? http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/motors.pdf Doesn't list the 90 or 91 though. I may have a catalog page that's older, if I do I'll scan it at work today. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pittman motor What is the number of the large Pittman motor that was used in the Winton Allegheny and the Hobbytown E-7 units? It was normally used for O Gauge items. Was it DC 90 or 91 ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16516	From: oljoe	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

according to: 1957 "Catalog of Model Railroads" HOBBYTOWN: The E-7 Passenger Diesel came with a DC-91 motor. It was 12 wheel drive. Also made was a DC-91 F-7 chassis for the Athearn/Globe bodies 8 wheel drive. An Alco 2000 DC-91, 12 wheel drive was offered. The DC-90 was generally offered with 8 wheel drives except as noted above. The Alco switcher was also offered with 8 wheel drive and a DC-71 motor The DC-91 and the DC-90 motors are both big boys. Little in the way of extra room was available between the side of the motor and the loco cab. Curiously none of the Hobbytown offerings used any but a single shafted motor but instead used a universal coupling to power the "other" truck. They could easily be described as stump pullers. I recall rewiring a Pennline GG-1 so it would run in the opposite direction. The Hobbytown F-7 pulled the protesting GG-1 backwards down the track. But then the GG-1 "only" had 1 "little" DC-71 in it. I have no doubt that a DC-90 equipped F-7 would have also shattered the dignity of that GG-1. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16517	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

The larger motor in the Winton seems to be always identified as a DC80, and while the one used by  Hobbytown was a DC90. Both were used by O-gaugers, but the 90 was distinctly larger than the 80. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16518	From: Richard White	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Red Ball rotary snowplow

Attachments : Red Ball Snowplow A.jpg Thanks Walter, Jim and Don- Now I think I have solved the attachment problem. So now I've attached a photo (from HOSeeker) of the Red Ball rotary snowplow. I'd still like to have ideas from the forum membership as to the prototype- if there is one- for this snowplow. Regards- Richard White

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16519	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Pleased to make your acquaintance

WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16520	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Welcome aboard. We're glad to have you with us, we hope you enjoy the ride. You mention the original Labelle factory, was that when they were in Oconomowoc? Can't remember the owner's name, but I do recall he was a member of our church. My only similar memory was being shown around the old Walthers building on Water St. by Bill himself. Quite a thrill for a 14 year old. :-) Anyway, glad to have you with us. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pleased to make your acquaintance > WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was > rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much > information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage > craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent > reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am > sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original > facility several times. > > My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and > era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three > Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally > from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from > Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are > Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm > chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase > "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than > we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have > our own reality show. > > In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 > craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done > a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm > > http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm > > > I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and > Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due > to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I > am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. > > I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded > individuals who may join in. > > I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning > about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16521	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Pleased to meet you too Denny! Like Do said; "Welcome aboard!" Sean Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2011, at 6:00 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16522	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Denny Impressive collection, and impressive skills you have in 'bringing them back from the dead'. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16523	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Welcome Denny: I loved the intro to the Hotel Hiser article. It sounds like an old pulp crime fiction story. I really admire your models. They look like they have a lot of time invested in them. I don't get into the modeling as much as I would like. However, I can identify with "Armchair Accumulator". Regards, Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16524	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Love the Hiser Hotel build sequence Denny!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, April 29, 2011 6:00:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pleased to make your acquaintance   WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16525	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Yes Don, I am speaking of the original LaBelle "factory" in Oconomowoc! I am using the term factory rather loosely as I recall it wasn't much more than a very large garage type structure with wood working machinery. I was there when they were in season meaning they were building cabinets which I believe was their main industry. The guy who met us at the door said they did the LaBelle kits in their off season. My father-in-law who insisted on finding the place was a cabinet maker and he and the guy had a long conversation about wood working techniques but we were not allowed to walk around inside. In fact as I recall they did not have a sign outside saying Labelle and we drove up and down the road several times before we took a chance and stopped. I believe he told us that while the kits were manufactured at that location the actual packing of the kits was done somewhere in town whatever that meant. That was around 1976 or 77 and I have slept a few times since then. Kicking back, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Welcome aboard. We're glad to have you with us, we hope you enjoy the ride. > > You mention the original Labelle factory, was that when they were in > Oconomowoc? Can't remember the owner's name, but I do recall he was a > member of our church. My only similar memory was being shown around the old > Walthers building on Water St. by Bill himself. Quite a thrill for a 14 > year old. :-) > > Anyway, glad to have you with us. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:00 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Pleased to make your acquaintance > > > > WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was > > rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much > > information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage > > craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent > > reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am > > sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original > > facility several times. > > > > My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and > > era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three > > Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally > > from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from > > Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are > > Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm > > chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase > > "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than > > we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have > > our own reality show. > > > > In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 > > craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done > > a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: > > > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm > > > > http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm > > > > > > I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and > > Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due > > to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I > > am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. > > > > I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded > > individuals who may join in. > > > > I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning > > about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. > > > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16526	From: Nelson	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Nice to see you here, Denny! I always enjoy seeing your excellent work over on your group, so I guess I'll be seeing even more of it. The Yardbird Classic Trains group is also a great resource, with many of the same members as this one; so much so that I often have to double-check that I'm posting to the right group. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. > > My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. > > In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm > > http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm > > > I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. > > I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. > > I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16527	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Hi Denny, RE: LaBelle in Oconomowoc From what I have heard from the families, you probably met either Al Bobrakovsky or Fred Nienow who were the joint owners of LaBelle Woodworking. In the late 1970's it was probably Al alone as Fred had left the business. The kits were packed at Al's home by his children. I've had correspondence with them. In a case of progeny burnout, they don't seem very excited that LaBelle still exists but like to talk about the "Goodle Days". LaBelle was actually started (according to the county records) in about 1947. According to Al's Daughter in Law, LaBelle not only made cabinets but actually built a couple of homes in the area. The Construction venture wasn't too successful as, according to family, LaBelle was too picky to throw up a superstructure and roof and it actually cost them more money than they got out of it. This was happening a full 12 years before their first kit appeared in 1959. Somewhere I've posted a history of LaBelle as far as I know about it, which isn't a whole lot. All I know is that I'm still producing the kits and they're still selling. A testament, in my opinion, to their sound design, and the fact that LaBelle, always a niche player, has managed to outlast several larger producers in the wooden kit market. Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16528	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Rick, To date I have built 18 Standard gauge LaBelle cars. There are 47 unbuilt Standard gauge kits and 17 unbuilt HOn3 gauge kits in my collection. Some years ago I sold the O scale kits and may sell the HOn3 kits because I am no longer involved in narrow gauge. I firmly believe that when it comes to rolling stock LaBelle made the most significant mark on the hobby in the same way that Campbell kits did for the structures. I push new modelers toward your kits at every opportunity. In the near future I will post pictures of my built and bashed cars that came from LaBelle kits and maybe a few tips for building these cars especially the techniques I use for rounding the roofs on the passenger cars. Now if you really wanted to corner the market you might consider acquiring the Westwood line of kits in addition to your Labelle line. They are the only ones that I believe can compare and sorry to say in some respects, like the plastic castings for platforms, are better than Labelle in the 1880-1910 era. I'll also post some of those. By the way, at a Divisional NMRA meet in Milwaukee sometime around 1985-87 I did meet the second owner of LaBelle. In fact I corresponded with him and acquired several of the rubber bands for the drive and two extra sets of drive wheels for the power drive system from my Gas Electric. At the time he stated he did not have any complete drive assemblies. Now back to my nap, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Steele" <rntsteele@...> wrote: > > Hi Denny, > RE: LaBelle in Oconomowoc > > From what I have heard from the families, you probably met either Al Bobrakovsky or Fred Nienow who were the joint owners of LaBelle Woodworking. In the late 1970's it was probably Al alone as Fred had left the business. > > The kits were packed at Al's home by his children. I've had correspondence with them. In a case of progeny burnout, they don't seem very excited that LaBelle still exists but like to talk about the "Goodle Days". > > LaBelle was actually started (according to the county records) in about 1947. According to Al's Daughter in Law, LaBelle not only made cabinets but actually built a couple of homes in the area. The Construction venture wasn't too successful as, according to family, LaBelle was too picky to throw up a superstructure and roof and it actually cost them more money than they got out of it. This was happening a full 12 years before their first kit appeared in 1959. > > Somewhere I've posted a history of LaBelle as far as I know about it, which isn't a whole lot. > > All I know is that I'm still producing the kits and they're still selling. A testament, in my opinion, to their sound design, and the fact that LaBelle, always a niche player, has managed to outlast several larger producers in the wooden kit market. > > Rick Steele > LaBelle Woodworking Co. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16529	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Yes, I saw your posts. Would you mind if I posted a gallery of your LaBelle work on our website? My hope is that it will give inspiration to those beginners to the hobby that they, too can achieve good results. Of course as technology changes, we have to do the same. I have begun laser cutting windows in the O Scale and the new HO kits. It actually allows us to make smaller kit runs and still make a profit at them. There will be more in the future. Rounding the roof ends IS the biggest bugaboo of our kits. Most people are afraid to try it, where I use a belt sander... About 7 years ago I wrote to the owner of Westwood kits offering to purchase the line and to rehabilitate the injection molds for steps, duckbill ends, windows, etc. I was willing to keep the name Westwood and to keep the kits in production. My efforts were not even met with the courtesy of a reply. If you know more about the owner than I do, then I am certainly open to a dialog. Just to let you know that we are thinking along the same lines. I'll write more to you backchannel as many will find this dialog between us boring and of little interest. Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16530	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Rick, I am going to take this conversation off line. I may have info to get you hooked up with Westwood. By the way you can use any of my images you wish. I can email you higher quality versions if you wish. Time to open the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Steele" <rntsteele@...> wrote: > > Yes, I saw your posts. Would you mind if I posted a gallery of your LaBelle work on our website? My hope is that it will give inspiration to those beginners to the hobby that they, too can achieve good results. > > Of course as technology changes, we have to do the same. I have begun laser cutting windows in the O Scale and the new HO kits. It actually allows us to make smaller kit runs and still make a profit at them. There will be more in the future. > > Rounding the roof ends IS the biggest bugaboo of our kits. Most people are afraid to try it, where I use a belt sander... > > About 7 years ago I wrote to the owner of Westwood kits offering to purchase the line and to rehabilitate the injection molds for steps, duckbill ends, windows, etc. I was willing to keep the name Westwood and to keep the kits in production. My efforts were not even met with the courtesy of a reply. If you know more about the owner than I do, then I am certainly open to a dialog. > > Just to let you know that we are thinking along the same lines. > > I'll write more to you backchannel as many will find this dialog between us boring and of little interest. > > Rick Steele > LaBelle Woodworking Co. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16531	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Posted several plans for bashing LaBelle kits.

At the end of CWRailman's photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list I have posted three plans for bashing LaBelle kits. There is the private car Sheanne. This plan is the result of getting an incomplete kit from a friend. I took an inventory of what parts there were left in the box and came up with the design. I came up with the name by using the first three letters of his last name and his wife's first name. The second plan is for a Drover style caboose. This is almost one of those tongue in cheek models but I believe once completed it will look better than the plans. Yes, there is a prototype for this car CB&Q had one but it was much longer. This design came about when I found enough parts left from two previous bashes. After gluing them up I had 17' of clerestory roof I had to do something with it so The third car demonstrates what can be done to shorten one of the LaBelle 80 foot passenger observations down to a more manageable 66 foot. Eighty foot cars look great if you have 36" curves but for those of us with less than that a 60-70 foot car looks better. Time to turn in, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16532	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Nelson, I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16533	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: need part

I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush / Yardbird Trains doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16534	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: need part

Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16535	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Layout News

Group, Tonight I got the first three track blocks wired on my layout. My layout is a little over 100 square feet, running in the living room and part of the dining room in my apartment. I have been trying to put serious time into this lately, as I have a friend who is almost 90 years old, a WWII Vet, who is maintenance at Camp Ma Ka Ja Wan, a Boy Scout camp I do computer support and some other volunteer work for. He is coming down this way June 7, and he is a railfan. He wants to see these antique model trains run. I am more than happy to oblige, though my computer shop I own, has also kept me busy. The layout uses toggles to control blocks. DPST toggles are usual block controls, as the 'up' position powers the block, as well as the green light on a signal. 'Down' leaves the block unpowered, but then powers the red bulb on the signal. I am using some old Lionel solenoids to power semaphore signals. Requires the use of a balancing arm to adujst the amount of travel in the solenoid, to the amount needed for the semaphore arm. Some blocks are being wired with DPDT toggles. With both rails insulated on the block, I can reverse the current without reversing the whole layout. This allows for switching moves. Powering the layout is a CMI Superblue, that only powers the trains. A Lionel 75 watt transformer powers accessories and building lights. Ran an Athearn F-7 Hi-F locomotive as the test run, then started running various units along the stretch of line that is powered. Great fun! Wish me luck, all, in having the layout presentable by June 7! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16536	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part

Hi Jim, I may have an extra whistle, I've got six or seven General kits or engines in various states of completion, and a few parts engines, left over from my ACWRR modeling days.  Let me take a look today and I'll see if I can find one. No charge if I do, I'll mail it to  you and consider it a non-tax deductible donation to the JH Museum collection. Chris From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:19:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16537	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part

 Hi Chris,        I don't need the whistle as I have that. It's the bell with bracket ( plastic ) that I need. I had one here but it decided to hide. Sean N is sending me one so I can finish off my American Flyer / Mantua FY&P Frontiersman 4-4-0. Have to get it together before I lose more small parts as it is just sitting on my workbench.        Thanks for the offer. Appreciate it. Waiting for my newest addition for my vintage collection to come. Small engine but a missing piece                                  Jim h     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:07 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I may have an extra whistle, I've got six or seven General kits or engines in various states of completion, and a few parts engines, left over from my ACWRR modeling days.  Let me take a look today and I'll see if I can find one. No charge if I do, I'll mail it to  you and consider it a non-tax deductible donation to the JH Museum collection. Chris From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:19:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16538	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part

Ok Jim, glad to hear it. I'm deep in the benchwork re-building project, I'll post an update later, but i do hope to run trains again this month! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 19:19:04 -0700 (PDT) To: <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16539	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

One of the earliest AHM HO brass imports,1960, a PRR J1e 2-10-4 is a superb model locomotive. Its chassis rolls with Rolls-Royce smoothness and solidity, and the locomotive and tender bodies are very accurate as to scale, substantial in construction, and are very neatly soldered. @$59.50.It has a neatly cast zamac ashpan fastened to the chassis- a very important and unusual  visual modeling feature.  Detailing is accurate, although incomplete, and cast details are crude-  detracting features that, with skill, are easily rectified.  When they are, it is still a model that will stand up to the very best of current brass productions, and beat most of them.  The Japanese modeling shop that fabricated the locomotives, "The HO Company" remains a mystery, at least to me. AHM imported the same model again in 1966, but this later production is identified as being made by KTM.  Bob Hundman featured these particular models in MAINLINE MODELER about ten years ago as a particularly "Undervalued Brass Model".  The AHM HO brass MILWAUKEE ROAD Baltic F6e 4-6-4s of 1967 (KMT or KTM?) suffer from a fatal flaw:  The fabricators of the models mis-read the drawings, and applied the prominent  large bolted feedwater heater cover on the top surface of the boiler lagging forward rather than depressed under the lagging.  For most of those interested in scale accuracy, at least in the larger details, this has long been a deal breaker, if only because it is a flaw very, very difficult to cure.  A second  injury suffered by the AHM Baltics was that they were produced and marketed at the same time that PFM United (and Ashahi-Atlas) came out with their more accurate brass version of the same locomotive, which PFM eventually imported a total 1340. This unusually large number of imports of a single model,  when added to the unknown number that AHM imported, over-saturated the market big time for these Milwaukee models at the time,  and they still do.  Both the AHM and PFM models seem to sell for an average of $200-$350, pretty low. Bernie Paul at AHM was a high volume low price importer seldom concerned with scale accuracy, nor quality to be expected beyond the price points that he wanted to establish. However, either randomly, or by design, he could at times import some pretty nice stuff. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16540	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

If I may make one correction to the article below, the PFM model of the Milwaukee Baltic was an F-6a. I believe the AHM model was an F-6 (there's a difference in the running boards, one has a "step" along the side, the other is straight). I would love to get my hands on either one (I had a PFM in my younger days when I had money {read "single"} <G>) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass One of the earliest AHM HO brass imports,1960, a PRR J1e 2-10-4 is a superb model locomotive. Its chassis rolls with Rolls-Royce smoothness and solidity, and the locomotive and tender bodies are very accurate as to scale, substantial in construction, and are very neatly soldered. @$59.50.It has a neatly cast zamac ashpan fastened to the chassis- a very important and unusual visual modeling feature. Detailing is accurate, although incomplete, and cast details are crude- detracting features that, with skill, are easily rectified. When they are, it is still a model that will stand up to the very best of current brass productions, and beat most of them. The Japanese modeling shop that fabricated the locomotives, "The HO Company" remains a mystery, at least to me. AHM imported the same model again in 1966, but this later production is identified as being made by KTM. Bob Hundman featured these particular models in MAINLINE MODELER about ten years ago as a particularly "Undervalued Brass Model". The AHM HO brass MILWAUKEE ROAD Baltic F6e 4-6-4s of 1967 (KMT or KTM?) suffer from a fatal flaw: The fabricators of the models mis-read the drawings, and applied the prominent large bolted feedwater heater cover on the top surface of the boiler lagging forward rather than depressed under the lagging. For most of those interested in scale accuracy, at least in the larger details, this has long been a deal breaker, if only because it is a flaw very, very difficult to cure. A second injury suffered by the AHM Baltics was that they were produced and marketed at the same time that PFM United (and Ashahi-Atlas) came out with their more accurate brass version of the same locomotive, which PFM eventually imported a total 1340. This unusually large number of imports of a single model, when added to the unknown number that AHM imported, over-saturated the market big time for these Milwaukee models at the time, and they still do. Both the AHM and PFM models seem to sell for an average of $200-$350, pretty low. Bernie Paul at AHM was a high volume low price importer seldom concerned with scale accuracy, nor quality to be expected beyond the price points that he wanted to establish. However, either randomly, or by design, he could at times import some pretty nice stuff. Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16541	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > If I may make one correction to the article below, the PFM model of the > Milwaukee Baltic was an F-6a. I believe the AHM model was an F-6 (there's > a difference in the running boards, one has a "step" along the side, the > other is straight). H-mmm. Are you certain, Don? Both the PFM and AHM models are listed specifically as F6a's, not F6s (I am aware of the difference, but do not have the AHM model at hand). To my knowledge, the only true F6 HO models produced with the stepped boards were 1) The Taylor Baltic of 1936-41, 2) a very low-volume mid-50's PFM import, and 3) PSC's last brass production of these 4-6-4s about ten years ago. > > I would love to get my hands on either one (I had a PFM in my younger days > when I had money {read "single"} <G>) Keep your eyes peeled. Both locomotives come up regularly on eBay, and many that are poorly painted, poorly photographed, poorly presented or come up on the heels of another locomotive whose sale has exhausted the buyers, are eventually sold for relative peanuts. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 12:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass > > > One of the earliest AHM HO brass imports,1960, a PRR J1e 2-10-4 is a superb > model locomotive. Its chassis rolls with Rolls-Royce smoothness and > solidity, and the locomotive and tender bodies are very accurate as to > scale, substantial in construction, and are very neatly soldered. @$59.50.It > has a neatly cast zamac ashpan fastened to the chassis- a very important and > unusual visual modeling feature. Detailing is accurate, although > incomplete, and cast details are crude- detracting features that, with > skill, are easily rectified. When they are, it is still a model that will > stand up to the very best of current brass productions, and beat most of > them. > > The Japanese modeling shop that fabricated the locomotives, "The HO Company" > remains a mystery, at least to me. AHM imported the same model again in > 1966, but this later production is identified as being made by KTM. > > Bob Hundman featured these particular models in MAINLINE MODELER about ten > years ago as a particularly "Undervalued Brass Model". > > The AHM HO brass MILWAUKEE ROAD Baltic F6e 4-6-4s of 1967 (KMT or KTM?) > suffer from a fatal flaw: The fabricators of the models mis-read the > drawings, and applied the prominent large bolted feedwater heater cover on > the top surface of the boiler lagging forward rather than depressed under > the lagging. For most of those interested in scale accuracy, at least in > the larger details, this has long been a deal breaker, if only because it is > a flaw very, very difficult to cure. > > A second injury suffered by the AHM Baltics was that they were produced and > marketed at the same time that PFM United (and Ashahi-Atlas) came out with > their more accurate brass version of the same locomotive, which PFM > eventually imported a total 1340. This unusually large number of imports of > a single model, when added to the unknown number that AHM imported, > over-saturated the market big time for these Milwaukee models at the time, > and they still do. Both the AHM and PFM models seem to sell for an average > of $200-$350, pretty low. > > Bernie Paul at AHM was a high volume low price importer seldom concerned > with scale accuracy, nor quality to be expected beyond the price points that > he wanted to establish. However, either randomly, or by design, he could at > times import some pretty nice stuff. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16542	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Speaking of AHM brass, I own one of the Milwaukee F-6's and can vouch that it was not a second, but rather a well made, good running loco with great detail. My father used to also sell the B&M Mountain that they imported, and it too was a good loco. I believe there were one or two more that were worth owning that were real brass, likely made by the same Japanese firms that produced for the other well known names at the time (PFM, Gem, Westside, Akane, etc) Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16543	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: New vintage collection addition

I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest  but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item      400212607713     Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco      While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located.         I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them.      While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general..                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16544	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

I have just posted some images showing a step by step bash of a LaBelle 80 Observation car into a 66 foot car. You can see the process at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1803827382/pic/list This bash was done and documented by my friend Jim Kubajak and the car runs on his Fall River Line in the year 1928. If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me on line or by email and I will do my best to answer them. I have also posted additional bashes and plans of bashes at the end of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Now back to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16545	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

American Train and Track may also have sold them or one very simmilar. Ro9ger Aultman ---- jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: ============= I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item 400212607713 Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located. I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them. While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general.. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16546	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

The Silvine trolley became the Tyco Mantua 4 wheel Trolley in around 1960 or so. I have seen at advertised as Silvine as late as 1959. You can tell the later Tyco ones because the axles don't line up with the journal boxes in the sideframes (Mantua used their 4 wheel Plymouth CR-4 chassis). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item 400212607713 Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located. I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them. While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general.. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16547	From: Glenn	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Nice project. LaBelle makes good kits--I have built a bunch over the years. One thing I do when planning project like this is to "copy" the major parts on a copier--then do my trial and error work on the paper--gj -----Original Message----- From: cwrailman Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 4:26 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Bashing LaBelle passenger cars I have just posted some images showing a step by step bash of a LaBelle 80 Observation car into a 66 foot car. You can see the process at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1803827382/pic/list This bash was done and documented by my friend Jim Kubajak and the car runs on his Fall River Line in the year 1928. If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me on line or by email and I will do my best to answer them. I have also posted additional bashes and plans of bashes at the end of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Now back to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16548	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

Jim, I found this German page on Silvine via google Chris B http://www.modellbahnarchiv.de/Modelle/USA/Silvine/index.shtml Silvine Silvine in Baltimore, was an importer and distributor of model railway accessories in the United States. The products were sold under the brand 'Silvine' ode 'Silvine Models'. Small B-coupler of Silvine scale H0 Transformer of Silvine Silvine imported in the years 1950/60er a working trolley buses from Japan to the United States. The construction of the pantograph which is the early Eheim Trolley buses only. The Silvine trolley bus. Overhead line and road are not original. The bus is built in scale H0 and about 12-13 cm (4.75'') long. At the bottom it is 'Made in Japan' mark, the manufacturer is likely to Sakai . From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:48:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition              I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest  but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item      400212607713     Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco      While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located.         I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them.      While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general..                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16549	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update

Attachments : OLD FRAMEWORK ON RIGHT IN LAYOUT ROOM NOW GONE.jpg OLD FRAMEWORK IN LAUNDRY NOW GONE.jpg NEW FRAMES IN LAUNDRY.jpg layout plan.jpg FIRST FOUR DONE, 38 TO GO....jpg Jim, I finally finalized my layout track plan for all four levels, but that also meant I had to tear down the temporary heavy wood framing on both sides of the wall between the layout room and the laundry room, and replace it with the final framework. It's based on a heavy multi-landscape timber X truss arrangement in the laundry room, that will support the levels holding the tracks on the hidden laundry side, but with  enough strength to support all 42 2x4s that will be sticking through the wall to support the four levels on that side, all sticking out into the room, four feet out at the widest point, without any legs! (4x6 timbers bolted to each other and to the wall studs and overhead joists) When the benchwork is all done, it all gets sheathed in finished luan plywood, the back wall and bottom of each shelf gets covered with thin sheet cork, the hardwood vintage truscale and tenshodo trackage goes down, and the unpainted brass roster gets to run over 300 ft of double track mainline and 4% grades from 32" above the floor to the top level at 66" above the floor! Chris B.  No plastic, no paint, all brass or diecast metal engines and cars, I'm building a DC powered time machine!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16550	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

 Hi Chris,       Thanks for the information. To find out sold  in Baltimore and mostly likely made by Sakai is useful.                                                                                             Jim H             ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition   Jim, I found this German page on Silvine via google Chris B http://www.modellbahnarchiv.de/Modelle/USA/Silvine/index.shtml Silvine Silvine in Baltimore, was an importer and distributor of model railway accessories in the United States. The products were sold under the brand 'Silvine' ode 'Silvine Models'. Small B-coupler of Silvine scale H0 Transformer of Silvine Silvine imported in the years 1950/60er a working trolley buses from Japan to the United States. The construction of the pantograph which is the early Eheim Trolley buses only. The Silvine trolley bus. Overhead line and road are not original. The bus is built in scale H0 and about 12-13 cm (4.75'') long. At the bottom it is 'Made in Japan' mark, the manufacturer is likely to Sakai . From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:48:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition              I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest  but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item      400212607713     Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco      While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located.         I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them.      While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general..                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16551	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]

Hi Chris,       Finally got a little time to look at the pictures of your layout. You originally said what you planned to do and from the looks of the pictures you have done just that. It will be unique but this hobby is about everyone doing there own thing while enjoying what they are doing. Nice job       It looks like you had some major work with some "heavier" lumber to build what you needed but it will be great when you get to watch those trains run around the entire layout. Are the plans you show done by Cad Cam.? You put a lot of planning and effort into it and can be pleased with the results. That finished luan plywood will set it off                                            Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: bkmmrr@... ; dguillaudeu@... Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]   Jim, I finally finalized my layout track plan for all four levels, but that also meant I had to tear down the temporary heavy wood framing on both sides of the wall between the layout room and the laundry room, and replace it with the final framework. It's based on a heavy multi-landscape timber X truss arrangement in the laundry room, that will support the levels holding the tracks on the hidden laundry side, but with  enough strength to support all 42 2x4s that will be sticking through the wall to support the four levels on that side, all sticking out into the room, four feet out at the widest point, without any legs! (4x6 timbers bolted to each other and to the wall studs and overhead joists) When the benchwork is all done, it all gets sheathed in finished luan plywood, the back wall and bottom of each shelf gets covered with thin sheet cork, the hardwood vintage truscale and tenshodo trackage goes down, and the unpainted brass roster gets to run over 300 ft of double track mainline and 4% grades from 32" above the floor to the top level at 66" above the floor! Chris B.  No plastic, no paint, all brass or diecast metal engines and cars, I'm building a DC powered time machine!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16552	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update

Thanks Jim, it's coming along. I've got a closet full of tru scale track just waiting for the next phase...The plans were done with the free Atlas RTS track planning software, I can't say enough good about it, and the price makes it the best layout sw on the market. Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:13:02 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update   Hi Chris,       Finally got a little time to look at the pictures of your layout. You originally said what you planned to do and from the looks of the pictures you have done just that. It will be unique but this hobby is about everyone doing there own thing while enjoying what they are doing. Nice job       It looks like you had some major work with some "heavier" lumber to build what you needed but it will be great when you get to watch those trains run around the entire layout. Are the plans you show done by Cad Cam.? You put a lot of planning and effort into it and can be pleased with the results. That finished luan plywood will set it off                                            Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: bkmmrr@... ; dguillaudeu@... Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]   Jim, I finally finalized my layout track plan for all four levels, but that also meant I had to tear down the temporary heavy wood framing on both sides of the wall between the layout room and the laundry room, and replace it with the final framework. It's based on a heavy multi-landscape timber X truss arrangement in the laundry room, that will support the levels holding the tracks on the hidden laundry side, but with  enough strength to support all 42 2x4s that will be sticking through the wall to support the four levels on that side, all sticking out into the room, four feet out at the widest point, without any legs! (4x6 timbers bolted to each other and to the wall studs and overhead joists) When the benchwork is all done, it all gets sheathed in finished luan plywood, the back wall and bottom of each shelf gets covered with thin sheet cork, the hardwood vintage truscale and tenshodo trackage goes down, and the unpainted brass roster gets to run over 300 ft of double track mainline and 4% grades from 32" above the floor to the top level at 66" above the floor! Chris B.  No plastic, no paint, all brass or diecast metal engines and cars, I'm building a DC powered time machine!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16553	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Attachments : IMG_6991_1.JPG     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16554	From: Garry Spear	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]

Jim, I use stamp tongs for items like this. Stamp tong are tweezers used for mounting stamps in stamp albums.  They are thin with smooth gripping surfaces, mine are 6" long and are easy to control.  Stamps are delicate, will not tolerate rough handling, and need to mounted accurately. My method. Garry Spear On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16555	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Gary,        Sounds like a great idea. Thanks.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Jim, I use stamp tongs for items like this. Stamp tong are tweezers used for mounting stamps in stamp albums.  They are thin with smooth gripping surfaces, mine are 6" long and are easy to control.  Stamps are delicate, will not tolerate rough handling, and need to mounted accurately. My method. Garry Spear On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16556	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]

Jim, you could try an old method we used to use on equipment restorations when a sticker was rectangular; you cut a piece of card stock to the exact size and shape of the final sticker; put a small dot of glue stick adhesive in the center of the back side; then lay the piece on its side and set the sticker in the appoximate correct position and press down in the center; with only that one dot of adhesive you can rotate it till it's. level or nudge it up and down or sideways till it's right...we would use a scrap of the same card stock with a pencil line that was drawn parallel to the sticker edge and equal to the distance from the edge of the sticker to one edge of the model; e.g., You put the long cut edge of the scrap along the bottom edge of the sticker, and mark a pencil mark where the scrap crosses the bottom edge of the tender, then just slide the scrap along the sticker to see if it's'the same distance along the whole bottom edge...adjust your stuck on sticker template till all your scraps and marks are equal on all four sides; then press the sticker template down firmly, and carefully apply low tack painter's tape aro_nd all four sides of the sticker template; You can overlap the corners, just make sure the tape edge lays perfectly straight with the sticker template edge; Then BOOM, take off the template, chk your final sticker one last time, peel off the backing; And starting along the long top edge, align the sticker with the opening made by the tape, press gently, check again, then press down evenly along the length, from top to bottom; Using: 2 rounded end dowels cut to size, a short one for left to right, and a long one for top to bottom; Peel off the tape and with patience and luck it's perfect! All it is is a one time crude version of the mask/jig they would use in production. Chris B From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:21:35 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]       Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16557	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Jim, stamp tongs might be great, but if the sticker is as big as I remember, they may be undersized; and when collectors use them to position stamp hinges, IIRC, they're tips aren't in contact with any active adhesive. But if you can remove the backin sheet in sections, and use the tongs to hold the sticker in areas where the backing sheet remains until you've placed and adhered most of the sticker, they'd. probably be the perfect tool for the job!! Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:03:57 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Gary,        Sounds like a great idea. Thanks.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Jim, I use stamp tongs for items like this. Stamp tong are tweezers used for mounting stamps in stamp albums.  They are thin with smooth gripping surfaces, mine are 6" long and are easy to control.  Stamps are delicate, will not tolerate rough handling, and need to mounted accurately. My method. Garry Spear On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16558	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Hi Chris,        Will keep this idea too. Will try them on something else first to see what would be best. Those little Franklin stickers fit in a slot on the cab side but that slot is a little larger then the sticker. Going to be fun to work in that area.     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: Vint Ho Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Jim, you could try an old method we used to use on equipment restorations when a sticker was rectangular; you cut a piece of card stock to the exact size and shape of the final sticker; put a small dot of glue stick adhesive in the center of the back side; then lay the piece on its side and set the sticker in the appoximate correct position and press down in the center; with only that one dot of adhesive you can rotate it till it's. level or nudge it up and down or sideways till it's right...we would use a scrap of the same card stock with a pencil line that was drawn parallel to the sticker edge and equal to the distance from the edge of the sticker to one edge of the model; e.g., You put the long cut edge of the scrap along the bottom edge of the sticker, and mark a pencil mark where the scrap crosses the bottom edge of the tender, then just slide the scrap along the sticker to see if it's'the same distance along the whole bottom edge...adjust your stuck on sticker template till all your scraps and marks are equal on all four sides; then press the sticker template down firmly, and carefully apply low tack painter's tape aro_nd all four sides of the sticker template; You can overlap the corners, just make sure the tape edge lays perfectly straight with the sticker template edge; Then BOOM, take off the template, chk your final sticker one last time, peel off the backing; And starting along the long top edge, align the sticker with the opening made by the tape, press gently, check again, then press down evenly along the length, from top to bottom; Using: 2 rounded end dowels cut to size, a short one for left to right, and a long one for top to bottom; Peel off the tape and with patience and luck it's perfect! All it is is a one time crude version of the mask/jig they would use in production. Chris B From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:21:35 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]       Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16559	From: Richard White	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Building old Walthers passenger car

Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16560	From: J Dampier	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Parts needed

Got to get these parts: Varney SW7 driveshaft and screws for front truck Varney/Lifelike F-Unit driveshaft Lifelike 0-4-0 boiler and rear coupler Rivarossi Casey Jones rear tender truck, bell, and 2 drivers Mantua 0-4-0 boiler front/smoke box door Tyco horns Tyco redbox era: Need 2 tanks w/ wieghts and screws for GP20 Need @ tanks w/wieghts and screws for FP7/9 2 pairs of sideframe for MU2 w/ pins intact Rivarossi 0-4-0T frame

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16561	From: Glenn	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

I built a lot of those cars--Goo (or Pliobond) the tinplate sides to the edges of the floor, then set the joints with a soldering iron. Epoxy the ends to the floor and sides. If the car sides do not have a reinforcing angle along the top edge solder one on. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16562	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Denny, Guess who? Based on your input, I decided that I should join this group and am glad that I did. There is a lot of good, useable information on this site. From your posting, it appears that like Ole'Harold, you really enjoy your wooden cars. I agree! Keep up the good work, Greg Rich President & Chief Wheel Knocker New Baltimore & Fair Haven Rwy.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16563	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Richard, I have built several of the aforementioned Walthers passenger cars and have not encountered any problems with the sturdiness of the finished car when assembled per the instructions. One thing I would suggest is to use Walthers Goo (contact adhesive) when attaching the tinplate sides to the wooden floor. Some people may be making faces when I mention Goo, but like anything, if you want to use it, you have to learn about it's characteristics and use them to your advantage. If I were to glue the sides to the floor I would first dry fit the pieces and make sure all my alignments are correct. Then, apply the goo to the correct area of the interior side. If you use goo's natural tendency to "string", you can apply the goo in a "stitching" fashion. Where you can put a small glob, pick up your applicator, string it, and plop another glob, string it, and so forth until you reach the end of the side. (When you mastered this technique, you can use a brass wire as an applicator and take advantage of the "strings" in attaching windows with no visible glue.) Once you have the goo applied to your satisfaction, press the two pieces to be joined and pull slightly apart, allow about 2 minutes and re-press/ align. Set aside to dry and it WILL NOT COME APART! Regards, Greg Rich

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16564	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Yep. Glenn and Rich have it right. Unless you're planning on tossing the car around, Walther's Goo will do the trick anywhere metal meets a flat wood surface. Don't put it on too thick (a thin line will be fine--read Rich's advice) and solder any metals together that will take the solder. The extra advantage of Goo is that you have time to move things around a bit before it permanently sets, and super glues are not satisfactory for all situations. Don't waste time on elaborate, reinforcing braces, etc.   Art W   In a message dated 5/6/2011 8:30:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, glenn476@... writes: I built a lot of those cars--Goo  (or Pliobond) the tinplate sides to the edges of the floor, then set the joints with a soldering iron.    Epoxy the ends to the floor and sides.  If the car sides do not have a reinforcing angle along the top edge solder one on. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16565	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

A bit more of advice on the Goo. Keep the cap on the tube whenever possible, and watch out for new tubes of the stuff. It runs out fast till it thickens up a bit in the tube from usage and will mar some kinds of paint permanently. Take it from a guy who has learned the hard way. And a bit more on super type glues. They often will not hold well on shiny surfaces unless there is a chemical bond formed between the 2 materials. The materials will sometimes will snap apart even if twisted slightly. Goo will usually go down fighting and will maintain enough elasticity to hold even under unusual stresses after a long period of time.   Art W   In a message dated 5/6/2011 8:44:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, luvprr@... writes: Yep. Glenn and Rich have it right. Unless you're planning on tossing the car around, Walther's Goo will do the trick anywhere metal meets a flat wood surface. Don't put it on too thick (a thin line will be fine--read Rich's advice) and solder any metals together that will take the solder. The extra advantage of Goo is that you have time to move things around a bit before it permanently sets, and super glues are not satisfactory for all situations. Don't waste time on elaborate, reinforcing braces, etc.   Art W   In a message dated 5/6/2011 8:30:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, glenn476@... writes: I built a lot of those cars--Goo  (or Pliobond) the tinplate sides to the edges of the floor, then set the joints with a soldering iron.    Epoxy the ends to the floor and sides.  If the car sides do not have a reinforcing angle along the top edge solder one on. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16566	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car > Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit > on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or > plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to > the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy > car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had > an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering > bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do > have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that > article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. > Regards- Richard White > I glue the sides and ends to the floor and each other just like the instructions say, using a good contact cement, and you'd be surprised how sturdy it really is. I don't even glue on the roofs, leaving them loose in case I ever get around to putting in interiors and I've never had a problem. as far as soldering on bracing, this would be probably just be some 1/8" brass angle, like that from K&S, soldered to the inside the thickness of the floor above the bottom, but again, I've never found it necessary. The older pre-1959 cars have sides that fold under the floor, and I've seen models where the builders actually ran screws through this flange up through the floor. Back when they only had Ambroid or household cement, this made a car so sturdy you could bop your little sister over the head with it without hurting the car, but hopefully we don't need to do that anymore <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16567	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

There's a new (at least new to me, I only first saw it a few months ago) glue that I found, of all places, at Walgreen's ! It's called "Multi-purpose SureFlex Adhesive", brand name "Surehold". It is thin, acting just like you describe the new Goo, but it's transparent. I have been amazed, this stuff seems to glue anything to anything with remarkable strength. The only thing I haven't tried it on yet is nylon or delrin, the only answer there seems to still be epoxy. I don't particularly like super-glue for much of anything. While it has very good tensile strength (remember the golf ball glued to the hard hat in the old displays?), it has shear strength somewhat akin to library paste. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <luvprr@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car >A bit more of advice on the Goo. Keep the cap on the tube whenever > possible, and watch out for new tubes of the stuff. It runs out fast till > it > thickens up a bit in the tube from usage and will mar some kinds of paint > permanently. Take it from a guy who has learned the hard way. And a bit > more on > super type glues. They often will not hold well on shiny surfaces unless > there is a chemical bond formed between the 2 materials. The materials > will > sometimes will snap apart even if twisted slightly. Goo will usually go > down > fighting and will maintain enough elasticity to hold even under unusual > stresses after a long period of time. > > Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16568	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > Nelson > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16569	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Edit: That should read "early enough that I NEVER saw them advertised." Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. > > > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16570	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16571	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Welcome abord Greg. I am sure you will have much to contribute to this group. A lot of modelers with the same interests as you and I and Jimmy meet here and have a lot of really good indepth information to share. You have got to read the history of Ambroid then post some of the cars you have built in the photo section. Great people here. Put some pressure on the "Ole Fart" to join. I know he would enjoy the discussions especially the one going on currently about Walthers passenger cars. He has built a few of those. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gregory r" <steamers01@...> wrote: > > > > > > Denny, > Guess who? Based on your input, I decided that I should join this group and am glad that I did. There is a lot of good, useable information on this site. From your posting, it appears that like Ole'Harold, you really enjoy your wooden cars. I agree! > > Keep up the good work, > > Greg Rich > President & Chief Wheel Knocker > New Baltimore & Fair Haven Rwy. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16572	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Nelson, If you would like to see one of the Brass and Zamic hybrids I spoke about, there is one for sale at Caboose Hobbies. It is their item no. BC84070. It is the Pacific version but a Mike was also sold at the same time. They are the ones I would suggest syating away from. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. > > > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16573	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

There has been a new generation of brass snd Zamak "hybrid" imports in recent years. PSC's Mountain Model Imports division has done the four Rio Grande "K" classes and the C-19 2-8-0's in On3, K-27's and possibly others in HOn3, and Blackstone has the K-27 and is coming out with the C-19 in HOn3--all making the "big pieces" in Zamak, with the smaller details in brass These are all factory painted, so one wouldn't notice the means of construction just looking at them. gj -----Original Message----- From: Nelson Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have > heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. > These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. > These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right > before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One > was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay > away from those. > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were > comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown > models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, > many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including > breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the > hitches in the get-a-long. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never > > seen it until this auction. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that > > had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking > > model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New > > One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which > > would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > Nelson > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16574	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Yes the brass community has somewhat accepted the Hybrid concept. Prior to those that Glen lists, Oriental had some excellent hybrid models in their Powerhouse series with chassis by Samhongsa. Those models were sold in the mid to late 1980's. I have had four of those models and they all operate flawlessly. However like I said I have seen a few copies of those AHM hybrid models and they were not at all made well. I believe they originally sold for around $150 but after a few years they were selling at swaps for $50-75. I believe they were offered in black and brass colored paint. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > There has been a new generation of brass snd Zamak "hybrid" imports in > recent years. PSC's Mountain Model Imports division has done the four Rio > Grande "K" classes and the C-19 2-8-0's in On3, K-27's and possibly others > in HOn3, and Blackstone has the K-27 and is coming out with the C-19 in > HOn3--all making the "big pieces" in Zamak, with the smaller details in > brass These are all factory painted, so one wouldn't notice the means of > construction just looking at them. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nelson > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:19 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass > > Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were > offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any > brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative > runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's > that seem to be sought after by collectors. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have > > heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. > > These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. > > These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right > > before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One > > was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay > > away from those. > > > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were > > comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown > > models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, > > many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including > > breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the > > hitches in the get-a-long. > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never > > > seen it until this auction. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that > > > had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking > > > model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New > > > One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which > > > would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16575	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

I have 13 of these ATSF heavyweight kits that I obtained in a "fire sale" at least 30 years ago at a great price. I had planned to build them up in an assembly line fashion when I retired, but after 17 years of retirement I haven't gotten there ... yet. Are they worth more in kit form or built up? Do you think they would stand out as crude on a layout populated with Walthers and TSP products? Which paint product is best suited for these (in ATSF pullman style). I have also picked up a few that have already been built, some good some poorly, at swaps and wonder if they are worth repairing and returning to service. Any thoughts?? Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". > I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. > > GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). > > By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16576	From: Richard White	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Dale- There are a couple of the ATSF heavyweight Walthers kits on EBay right now, so you can see what these sell for. My belief is that a kit might be worth more, at least when you consider your labor. Regarding their comparison with modern Pullmans from Walthers and others, I think the Walthers kits have a real "presence" (some would call it "charm") compared to modern plastic. You certainly have more pride of possesion compared to a ready-built plastic Pullman. I think you should definitely consider restoring yours! And thanks to all the forum members who have offered me advice on building my kit. I will go with the Barge cement (thanks, Denny).  -Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dale.hokanson@... Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 22:47:53 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car   I have 13 of these ATSF heavyweight kits that I obtained in a "fire sale" at least 30 years ago at a great price. I had planned to build them up in an assembly line fashion when I retired, but after 17 years of retirement I haven't gotten there ... yet. Are they worth more in kit form or built up? Do you think they would stand out as crude on a layout populated with Walthers and TSP products? Which paint product is best suited for these (in ATSF pullman style). I have also picked up a few that have already been built, some good some poorly, at swaps and wonder if they are worth repairing and returning to service. Any thoughts?? Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". > I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. > > GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). > > By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car >I have 13 of these ATSF heavyweight kits that I obtained in a "fire sale" >at least 30 years ago at a great price. I had planned to build them up in >an assembly line fashion when I retired, but after 17 years of retirement I >haven't gotten there ... yet. Are they worth more in kit form or built up? >Do you think they would stand out as crude on a layout populated with >Walthers and TSP products? Which paint product is best suited for these >(in ATSF pullman style). I have also picked up a few that have already >been built, some good some poorly, at swaps and wonder if they are worth >repairing and returning to service. Any thoughts?? > > Dale in Spokane If it were me I would build them and run them. Actually that's what this group is about, actually RUNNING these great old vintage pieces. My fleet of "heavyweights" is almost all Walthers, JC and varney (yeah, even the old cardstock kits), and I wouldn't trade a single on of them for one of today's RTR cars. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16578	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Are the JC kits in any way related to the old Walthers heavyweight kits? They look (on ebay) to be very similar. Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:47 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car > > > My fleet of "heavyweights" is almost all Walthers, JC and varney (yeah, even > the old cardstock kits), and I wouldn't trade a single on of them for one of > today's RTR cars. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16579	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP

HI In group: Photos Album:1 Vintage ID Wanted: Vintage 40 ft Boxcar there is a photo of a 40 ft outside braced tinplate box car in a SP paint scheme with wings (SP never had). Who manufactured this. Have che